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      Be happy and be well. Please be careful about Covid. Viral load matters for infection, spending hours in a house with people is a great way to get infected. Feel free to use comments to discuss topics unrelated to recent posts. I’m doing my annual fundraiser. If you like my writing and can afford to, […]
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There Can Be No Exceptions in the Fight for Civil Rights

Our dear friend Mawm, he of PUMAmobile fame, has a brilliant and inspiring post at Electric Blues about “the black analogy.” To anyone but a craven bigot, there are obvious resemblances between fight for the civil rights of GLBT Americans–as well as for those of women and other discriminated against groups–to Martin Luther King’s campaign for the rights of black Americans. But many so-called “progressives,” like our President-elect, want to make exceptions for certain civil rights, such as marriage, that they wish to reserve for only the “right kind” of Americans.

Something that has infuriated me lately is the attempt by some so-called “Progressives” to insist that the civil rights battles fought for the rights of Black Americans are completely different than what faces the gay community today. Whether Neo-liberals want to admit it or not the struggles of Black Americans to be recognized and treated as equals are not unique in this world. Many other groups of people have and do struggle for the same thing. The list is long, but some historical examples are the women’s suffrage movement in the U.S., India’s fight for self-rule, and Protestants’ desire to worship free of persecution in Europe. Looking back on these conflicts, the average person living in the U.S. today would see each of these struggles as clear examples of right vs. wrong. Of course, protestants should have the same rights as other religions. Of course, Indians should have the right to rule themselves just as other nations do. Of course, women should have the same right to vote as men. Of course, black people have the same rights as other races.

Later in the piece, Mawm knocks down the straw man argument that being gay is a “choice,” and therefore gays don’t have the same right to demand equal rights that other groups do. After all, people want to be free to practice their religions without face descrimination. Is religion genetic or a choice? Does is really matter?

I never met any gay people who have ever said they made the choice to be gay. Just the opposite. Most of us struggled for a time trying to conform to being straight, just to make our lives easier. But even if we were to begin our discussion assuming that it is a choice, how does our gayness compare to one’s choice of religion? Catholicism and Protestantism are definitely not genetic traits. To belong to one of these groups, one must definitely make a conscious choice. Since, most of the anti-gay bigotry comes from organized religions, it is the height of hypocrisy to make the born vs choice argument. My gayness trumps your choice of voodoo. If we are to see struggles for religious freedom in the same way we see other civil rights battles, then whether something is a choice or not becomes irrelevant.

He goes on to name and demolish other strawman arguments against the absolute right of gays to demand their rights as American citizens. Until all of us have equal rights, none of us can be truly free.

Please go read the whole thing.

UPDATE: Murphy has a related post about Melissa Etheridge’s delusional efforts to reach out to Rick Warren in hopes of getting a unity pony. Don’t hold your breath, Melissa.

117 Responses

  1. Mawm is a terrific writer. I wish he would write more often.

  2. I just read it. It is an excellent post. Y’all go read it now.

  3. The piece is inspiring and of course, Gary and Mawm are two of my all time favorites.

  4. I’m coming out of lurking to let Atlanta area PUMAs know that Rick Warren is scheduled as the featured speaker at the MLK, Jr. Day Commemorative Service on January 19 — the day before the coronation — at Ebenezer Baptist Church in downtown Atlanta. If anyone knows of any planned protests I’d appreciate the information.

  5. Wow! Just wow. I’m so glad to see Mawm write something so powerful. He is so right. We must stand in solidarity with the oppressed, including ourselves.

  6. RD,

    Murphy has a related post today that is amazing. I added the link in an update.

  7. Right on, BB. Good to spread the word of Mawm’s post; and yes Murphy has a great post up. I’ve been over there commenting. Now I have to stop strolling the web and focus on some other stuff.

  8. I didn’t “choose” to be straight and nobody ever told me to like girls, I just did.

    Nobody told me to be left-handed either, and it would have been easier and cheaper to be right-handed.

    The “tearoom trade” or “cottaging” (think Larry Craig) is the result of repressed sexuality.

  9. For some reason, my comment complimenting BB on this post is caught in moderation.

  10. I won’t link to Huffpo, but I see that Al Sharpton is now defending Warren. Could this have been planned to increase the alliance of AA’s with white evangelicals and and make it *impossible* for Obama to champion gay rights–military or domestic? The koolaid crew will make that argument. “We can’t lose the black vote! Gays will just have to settle for less.”

  11. Beautiful post, BB and Mawm.

    Of course we should all be working for social justice, instead of buying into Obama’s mantra: Justice for me, not for thee. As HRC said, “Womens’ rights are human rights.” The same could be said for all groups that are treated as inferior by society.

    Liberals still know that. Fauxgressives don’t.

  12. Let’s face it, Obama is a product of his Affrican American congregation which is the ONLY christian church he has ever gone to and the AA church is historically bigoted against Gay and lesbian people. I am frankly sick to death of the explanation that black people are more religious or that sociologically it makes sense for them to be more worried about losing their men to homosexuality because black men are already seen as less than other men…
    What a bunch of bull.

  13. Thanks Heidi LI and MadamaB.

  14. ps… if I do not accept social conservative ideas from white folk why should I have to accept it among black folk?

  15. Myiq,

    Happy Black Guy is in the moderation cue. He made a bigoted, anti-woman comment on your post. I thought I banned him.

  16. Hi teresainpa! It’s good to see you.

  17. teresainpa – Obama’s church (TUCCC) practices Black Liberation Theology. It is not a mainstream AA Christian church.

    I’m not saying that no AA Christian churches are homophobic. I think we all know that’s not true. But we also can’t lump all AAs into one church, ESPECIALLY not Obama’s.

  18. We are one PUMA, We are people, We have one Voice…we cry on for one thing that all are created equal and endowed by our creator with certian inalible rights..among these are life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness…just words?

    I guess when Obama says them they are that just words!

  19. BB:

    Let him hang out with Spammy.

  20. Desmond Tutu on the above subject:

    Best known among the conference speakers at Celebrate III was South African Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who told of his years-long struggle against apartheid and racial prejudice. “God is biased,” said Tutu. “He always takes the side of the weakest.”

    Tutu compared the struggle against racism to the fight for acceptance of homosexuality. “The passion that drove me to fight apartheid drives me to strive for justice for gays and lesbians,” he related. “We should celebrate sex as a wonderful gift of God. We should accept different sexual orientations,” Tutu proclaimed amid applause. “God made us who we are.” He urged the audience to “set our faces against homophobia.”

    Tutu said he had “no truck with those who speak of pie in the sky when you die.” The Church has a responsibility to work for “compassion, caring, and gentleness” in this world, he insisted. Besides racism and justice for homosexuals, he mentioned environmentalism as a cause that Christians should embrace. Calling the earth “our mother,” Tutu said that “ecology is a deeply religious matter” and that we “should treat all space and matter reverently.”

    http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=12-04-108-r

  21. I hope this comes across the way I mean and is not seen as bigoted. I think that certain factions want the term oppression and civil rights to only mean AA’s. That these terms are exclusive to AA’s and should never apply to the GLBT community or women. As long as it only applies to AA’s, it leaves to door open to griping, whining and complaining about poor pitiful me, you done me wrong. It also makes for some really great excuses why some people think they just can’t get ahead.

  22. And the ultimate irony:

    Lincoln fought the civil rights battle of his time
    seeking to end slavery at great personal and political cost to himself.

    Obama enables (and applauds) a social equality criminal who would destroy the civil rights movement of our time.

    And Obama dares to put his hand on Lincoln’s bible.

    That little #@$%#@$%

  23. teresainpa, on December 23rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm Said:

    Let’s face it, Obama is a product of his Affrican American congregation which is the ONLY christian church he has ever gone to and the AA church is historically bigoted against Gay and lesbian people…
    ************
    IIRC, Wright was given a lot of crap by other AA ministers because of his “tolerance” of homosexuality.

    ““Absolutely not,” said Rick Garcia, political director of Equality Illinois, the Chicago-based state gay rights group.

    “Trinity has been among the strongest supporters of LGBT rights,” Garcia said. “I have the highest regard and admiration for Rev. Wright.”

    Gay Chicago resident Ronald Wadley, a member of Trinity United Church of Christ, said Wright enthusiastically backed suggestions by gay church members to create a gay and lesbian singles ministry as part of the church’s existing ministry to heterosexual singles.

    “We call it the same-gender loving family ministry,” Wadley said. “It’s a ministry that was formed to allow people to have an outlet to reconcile their sexuality with their spirituality,” he said.

    “He has always been supportive on gay issues,” Wadley said of Wright. “He has a stance that we all go by, under the credence of John: 16 — that we are all created by God.”

    http://www.washingtonblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=17266

  24. As long as freedom is defined as black/white/gay/straight/Catholic/Protestant or anything other than what it is, freedom, the debate will continue to be circular and self-defeating.
    Free to be all you are and can be is the only bottom line worth fighting for.
    For any and everybody.

  25. SHV – That is really beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing those inspirational words.

    You see, this is why Obama’s hopey changey cr*p never moved me. I’ve heard the words of real hope and change, and that’s what they sound like.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  26. SHV – That’s what I was trying to say. The AA religious community is not monolithic, and Obama’s church is atypical.

    And frankly, it’s amazing how Wright seems fine with some types of bigotry (“garlic noses,” United States of AmeriKKA”) and not with others. I have to cynically wonder if the Reverend’s gay-friendliness is as overhyped as Obama’s.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  27. I have to cynically wonder if the Reverend’s gay-friendliness is as overhyped as Obama’s.
    ***************
    I don’t know; but when Wright hit the “mainstream” I did some research on him. ( BTW he is quite interesting.) I read one of his old sermons, given long before Obama came on the scene, that ridiculed AA ministers for being so focused on homosexuality.

  28. BB:

    I deleted HBG’s comment, but here is my response:

    Angry/Happy/Hopeful Black Guy:

    Why don’t you tell Matthew Shepard that racism is worse than homobigotry?

  29. Isn’t saying, “My suffering is worse than yours, ” tantamount to saying, “My happiness is more important than yours.”

  30. Donald Young was the murdered choir master of Trinity Church. After he was killed, the spokesperson for the church said, “well, he did lead an open lifestyle.”

  31. Thanks, myiq, for the concise explanation of the term “cottaging.” I’d heard it on Little Britain and didn’t have a clue. But the mental image of Larry “Wide Stance” Craig … yep, I get it now.

  32. angelasmith – “The b*tch deserved it,” huh?

    Who Would Jesus Hate?

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  33. SHV-that was beautiful-thank you for posting Desmond Tutu’s words.

  34. madamab, on December 23rd, 2008 at 2:58 pm Said:

    angelasmith – “The b*tch deserved it,” huh?
    ***************
    Or it could be read as a statement of fact. I would suspect that an openly Gay man living in that area would be at a higher risk of attack.

  35. teresainpa, “the AA church is historically bigoted against Gay and lesbian people” …

    So historically … white churches are pro-gay?

  36. Myiq,

    Next time he posts, leave the comment in spam for awhile so I can ban his new IP address.

  37. Well stated, Prolix! You always sum up principles so succinctly.

  38. I love to ban obot bigots.

  39. Beautiful words from Desmond Tutu.

    Thank you, SHV.

  40. madamab, lol
    sort of had the b*t*h was asking for it vibe

  41. I have said it before but it is well worth repeating. This blog has the most prolific and fundamentally intelligent writers of anywhere in the blogosphere or the MSM. It is truly astounding to keep company with those who share not only like minded thoughts but who also exert their talents and abilities to express themselves as eloquently as those who command the front page at any given time.

    What flows from their “computer fingers” is astonishing in the depth and commitment to lead with the truth. I learn so much from each contributor that it would be difficult to put into words.

    Thanks to each and every writer and poster who has made this blog and this year such a meaningful one. And many thanks is owed to Riverdaughter who has created a haven for them and us.

  42. myiq2xu, on December 23rd, 2008 at 2:11 pm Said:

    I didn’t “choose” to be straight and nobody ever told me to like girls, I just did.

    Nobody told me to be left-handed either, and it would have been easier and cheaper to be right-handed.

    Oh shit! I’ve always had this little thing going on where I observe the handedness of guys. My late lover was left-handed as am I and one night at Lafittes we just decided to check out how many lefties were present. It was a pretty good number of them.

  43. Hmmmm? So how many of us here are left handed?

    I am!

    *raises left hand*

  44. britgirls: we were just looking at the boys’ hands. It was sorta, ya know, an all boys bar! 😉

  45. So at a bar named Leftitties, you were surprised there were a lot of left handed guys?

  46. Everyone is born right-handed.

    Only the greatest can overcome it.

  47. {{{PJ}}}

    SHV – I hadn’t considered that aspect…that’s even worse.

    Prolix – You know, I really suspect that principle is what drives Obamamania.

    The fauxgressive blogs I read before I got a clue were promoting the idea that “This election is not about you.”

    ORLY?

    Who is it about, then? Am I supposed to put someone else’s imagined happiness or need before my own?

    That’s not what voting is about. I’m supposed to vote in my own best interests. Isn’t that what the fauxgressives were telling conservatives for the past eight years? “Why would you vote Republican? Why do you vote against your own best interests?”

    The truth is that no one can determine another person’s happiness, and no one can claim that he/she truly knows what is in another person’s best interests. That’s what is so d*mn condescending about the fauxgressives and why I am so over the whole liberal elitism thing.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  48. angela: technically the name was Lafittes In Exile.

    http://www.lafittes.com/

  49. madamab, yes either “he was just asking for it” or he “deserved it”.. and my lol was a sick laugh– hard to indicate.

    In addition, Trinity put a 1,000 dollar reward for info regarding the murder.
    At the same time, Trinity was helping to finance
    Wrights multimillion dollar home.
    I guess it’s a matter of priorities at Trinity.

    And Obama never said one word about the death of “Trinity’s longtime choirmaster.”

  50. myiq2xu, on December 23rd, 2008 at 3:33 pm Said:

    Everyone is born right-handed.

    Only the greatest can overcome it.

    Yay for us!

  51. I am right-handed, but have decent coordination in my left hand. I think I always had it. It made learning to play the piano and type a lot easier.

    🙂

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  52. I know Fredster, I was making a joke.

  53. Oh I knew your were. 😉

  54. My sister started out left-handed, but she was tortured by a nun into writing with her non-dominant hand. She is still pretty ambidextrous.

  55. 🙂

  56. PJ:

    You seem unclear on the “airing of grievances” concept.

  57. I thought the “airing of grievances” was supposed to start at 8PM?

  58. bostonboomer, the same thing happened to my dad. The evil nuns are everywhere, huh? He is ambidextrous but writes very slowly.

  59. I think that if we admit, that not only have AA’s been denied rights, but so have women and the GLBT community, then AA’s no longer own that grievance.

  60. Oh Gawd, BB, I just read Murphy’s post at PUMAPac. Let me paraphrase Melissa Etheridge’s drivel:

    “OMG Rick Warren was nice to me! Everything’s fine now! I’m going to volunteer at his church so that he gets to KNOW me and sees I’m not SCARY!”

    Yes, yes, dear, but what about equal rights for the LGBT community, of which you are, in fact, a charter member?

    Or is it all about you and your f*cking FEELINGS?

    Yeah, that’s what I thought.

    What a pathetic person she is. I hope no one is looking to her to be a moral leader on this issue, because she has already fallen down on the job, quite badly.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  61. TRK – I agree. But every time we tried to raise that issue during the primaries, we were told that sexism was less important than r*cism.

    Maybe now, with all the PUMA groups that have formed and the indignities of the election fresh in peoples’ minds, and all the sexist and homophobic figures Obama is embracing, we have a chance to change this perception.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  62. Agree with Pat J who comments about how great the writers here (and at Gary’s place) are. You all make following politics much more interesting than it would be if I only heard things from koolaid drinking friends and relatives or the MSM.

    I’m spending Christmas with my Australian cousins and some of them are beginning to see the light regarding Obama. And he hasn’t even been sworn in yet!

    Back on topic: so African Americans no longer have a struggle since one made it to the highest office in the land? As I read through all the comments, I wondered that. So many people keep saying that his election went a long way to improving racism. Huh? If anything, it pissed off a whole bunch of the population who got angry that AA’s voted solely based on color.

    To me, nothing changed whatsoever with Barack’s election (theft).

  63. Melissa Etheridge has now made a double a$$.
    of herself. Enough to say, she now calls the bigot “Reverend Rick.” I think he needs a “p” in front of his first name.

  64. Agreed Madama, but why is it necessary to be the particular owner of a grievance. Aren’t we more powerful as a group whose civil rights have been violated?

  65. I don’t know, but “mine is bigger than yours” seems vaguely familiar.

  66. Now that the Dems and the Repubs have decided that neither women’s rights or LGBT rights are civil rights, what group will next be on the chopping block? Not even downticket dems will get my vote next election cycle unless they grow a spine and champion women’s rights and LGBT rights. There is no grey area regarding Pastor Rick, he is an equal opportunity hater. No one should give this bozo a public platform.

  67. Scrubs – AA’s themselves appear to feel that way, as do a lot of Obamabots. The election was historic, but I think taking that moment and stretching it to include all AA’s is a total copout and quite r*cist, actually.

    If Obama uses his powers as Preznit to help end institutionalized r*cism in America, that would be wonderful. For example, I am positive that measures like rebuilding and modernizing schools in heavily AA areas would be a huge step he could take. But Obama does not seem inclined to do any such thing.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  68. TRK – I’m with you, sister! I never thought any group should “own” oppression. In fact, as a Joooo, I’ve always felt kind of funny about it, because if I want to, I can always play the Holocaust card.

    But that type of one-upmanship is pointless and dilutes the conversation we need to have about social justice.

  69. TRK – I’m with you, sister! I never thought any group should “own” oppression. In fact, as a Joooo, I’ve always felt kind of funny about it, because if I want to, I can always play the Holocaust card.

    But that type of one-upmanship is pointless and dilutes the conversation we need to have about social justice.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  70. Dissenting Justice has a lot of good posts on the Warren pick:
    http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/

  71. myiq: You really hate compliments don’t you? You are indeed “one of the best” writers and if you don’t like it take it up with that “thing”. I stand by my words.

  72. Exactly my point, and as you say, you are Jewish, I am half native american and whats worse, a woman. But I was always told to use the oppression is an excuse and to rise above it and be proud, not to own the oppression or to give it credence.

  73. obama…the president of the world. New World Order that is. Rev. Rick also is a member…that is why he was chosen. We not only have a first black president..we have a very sinister administration.

  74. That’s right, TRK.

    I guess I am not of the “whining” school myself. I would rather act than complain.

  75. Is it Tinfoil Hat Tuesday already?

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  76. I am positive that measures like rebuilding and modernizing schools in heavily AA areas would be a huge step he could take.
    ***********
    I have a friend who has taught in an “inner city” school for 15 years. Listening to her stories, I wouldn’t last until lunch break. I think the best way to break that cycle of poor education and poverty is to offer the option to parents of sending their children to boarding school.

  77. SHV – I read a story about inner city schools in Harper’s a year or so ago. I will never forget what those children go through. 400 kids, one (sort of) working bathroom, text books from the 1960’s, crumbling walls with water damage and mildew, rodent and bug infestations, no climate controls…

    Boarding schools, huh? To get them out of the neighborhoods with gangs and drugs? Interesting idea.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  78. Just gotta say, “thanks so much” for all that you and Murphy and Gary do in offering space for folks like us to vent. I would have wilted into a puddle this past year if not for reading (and sometimes writing in) these blogs. It’s nice to feel the support of others.

    And to Melissa (I won’t go to HuffPoo to have them NOT post my words), I sure hope Rick prays for you to be saved, as my wish is for you is to go to hell.

  79. I am tired of being defined out of my identity, rights, and experiences…
    First it was the “marriage is defined as being between one man and one woman” argument to keep marriage away from me. Now I’ve been defined out of the civil rights struggle because it’s only about being an oppressed AA.

    So, ummm, anyone know any words that might still apply to me (for the time being)?

  80. Sophie, on December 23rd, 2008 at 4:24 pm Said:

    How about “not included”?

  81. But B0 was “not so invested in the fights of the 60s and the 70s”
    And warren releases compromising photo to re-make image

    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/12/23/warren-i-can-too-has-gay-friends/

  82. Oh, and I’m probably not considered a feminist anymore because I voted for the woman running for VP. Apparently, it’s not about being pro woman, but rather pro Democrat.

  83. Sophie – How about “second-class citizen?”

    Or perhaps, “under the bus?”

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  84. It is not just inner city schools, there are schools in the south, that are just as bad. There was a special on a few schools in Alabama, Mississippa and Louisiana that are disgraceful. The poverty level in these areas are so high, that there is no taxpayer money to work on the schools and of course, the glorious No Child Left Behind was a godsend. {snark}

  85. madamab, on December 23rd, 2008 at 4:17 pm Said:Boarding schools, huh? To get them out of the neighborhoods with gangs and drugs? Interesting idea.
    **************
    I first heard that proposed by Wilson Goode, the first AA mayor of Phila.in the mid ’80’s.
    He was attacked by “community leaders” who accused him of wanting to destroy “Black” culture. It went nowhere.

    My friend teaches at a “magnet” school but even at a “better” school most of the children are well behind their grade level.

  86. I’m in a pretty foul mood today. For several months, I haven’t discusses politics at work because, well, I think you folks all know why. But today, the conversation got to Patterson and might he choose Caroline. the upshot of the whole thing is that they are framing it as Caroline has exactly the same experience as Hillary did: name recognition. Never mind that she was a wonk, never mind that she knows the name of every county in NY (I lived there for 42 years and I don’t), never mind that she actually campaigned and won. Puhlease. I can’t take this narrative-spin-framing shit anymore.

  87. I’m sure you’re right, TRK. I tend to be too city-focused in my comments sometimes. NCLB is indeed a disgrace.

    SHV – I can see why it would be a controversial stance, to say the least!

    My friend’s kids go to a “magnet” school that is excellent, but I’m sure a lot of them are not as good.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  88. Sophie – Hillary had 20 years in public service and government, including 8 years as a very involved First Lady, to her name.

    Princess Caroline has…her name.

    No contest. None. Give it up, Obamabots.

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  89. My daughter attended a magnet school and there was a lawsuit pending there. Several parents felt that there childred were encouraged to drop-out because they were pulling overall numbers down and could have cost the school serious funding, since NCLB looks at numbers.

  90. Myiq has always been a very good writer, but lately his writing seems to have reached a new level of excellence. I guess it must be because he has been writing so many posts. I’ve been trying to emulate him by writing more quickly and spending less time obsessing about finding the “perfect” topic and researching it to death.

    Down on his previous post I told myiq that his writing has more sex appeal than Obama ever dreamed of having with all his obsessive workouts. (He ignored the compliment, of course). Exercising the mind is so much more interesting.

  91. teresainpa – Obama’s church (TUCCC) practices Black Liberation Theology. It is not a mainstream AA Christian church.

    I’m not saying that no AA Christian churches are homophobic. I think we all know that’s not true. But we also can’t lump all AAs into one church, ESPECIALLY not Obama’s.

    the UCC is like the baptist church used to be, a very lose association of the church to it’s source. All congregations have a great deal of room to create their reality.
    Black liberation theology is practiced in many different AA denominations and the fact that it is BLT doesn’t mean it is not also conservative on issues of homosexuality.
    While BLT had it’s place in the 60s, I think it is just a way to continue the victimization that creates a mega church in Downtown Chicago…. a gimmick to get people in the pews and collect their dollars so someone like Wright could get rich.

  92. MadamaB,

    I don’t know what to think about Melissa Etheridge. I love her music, but her ability to reason isn’t as good as her singing.

  93. hi bostonboomer, nice to see you too! = )

  94. Sophie,

    I find it very interesting that your friends seem to have forgotten that Hillary has been in the Senate for 8 years. What has Caroline done in public life? She worked for the NY city schools for 2 months and no one saw her working.

  95. teresainpa,

    It’s always so much fun for me to see the people I liked at the Cheeto. It’s so nice to be free of that place, isn’t it? But I miss a lot of the people.

  96. BB – We can’t all be talented singers AND teh smart, like moi.

    😉

    Teresainpa – I think that particular church is quite serious about BLT, from the sermons that I’ve heard. And those were taken from a DVD that TUCC sold on its website.

  97. From what I’ve heard, Rev. Wright was not so friendly towards gay people behind the scenes. For what it’s worth…

  98. madamab, Said:
    Sophie – Hillary had 20 years in public service and government, including 8 years as a very involved First Lady, to her name.

    Princess Caroline has…her name.

    I agree whole-heartedly (and said much of that, but not as eloquently). But the framing–and the straight face they can deliver that bullshit with–it kills me.

    BB: Agree…but these are not my friends, these are the Obot people I work with. My friends on the other hand, are beyond understanding as well, because they began as Hillary supporters, not Obots and turned into Pony Jockeys.

  99. BB – Myiq’s brain is very sexy. Just ask Angienc!

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  100. madamab, on December 23rd, 2008 at 4:04 pm Said:

    TRK – I’m with you, sister! I never thought any group should “own” oppression. In fact, as a Joooo, I’ve always felt kind of funny about it, because if I want to, I can always play the Holocaust card.

    Oh man (woman!)! You could play the Inquisition Card, the prgrom card, the “kick the Jews outta France” card (back whenever one of the Kings did that). You have lots of choices!

  101. Fredster – Don’t I know it!

    Hey, maybe I should run for Preznit. Every time anyone asks me an embarrassing question, I can yell “Anti-Semite!” and start sobbing. Ya think I have a shot?

  102. Regarding boarding schools. Check this one out. I had seen a segment on 60 minutes, I believe, about this school. They have done tremendous work. Also, from a weather blog I’m on I found out one of the guys on the blog teaches at this school. He said it has been some of the most gratifying work he’s ever done.

    http://www.pineywoods.org/

  103. That’s cool, Fredster!

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  104. madamab: Many years ago I was reading one of Fran Lebovitz’s books (I think she wrote 2 and a kiddie book?).

    Anyway she decided to do a background of her granny a la sort of a blue blood thing. There was one description of her life in Poland (granny’s) where Fran wrote something like “Bootsie was an avid player in “Serf’s up” when the Cossacks came to town, running across the fields” (I inferred for the latest pogrom). I’m messing it up but the way Fran wrote it was hysterical. It cracks me up when I see Fran playing one of the judges on Law and Order, usually one of the bail judges.

  105. ps….folks, I am very depressed. I am having great amounts of financial stress. I am about to the point of living under the bridge and of course feel worthless and like a failure.
    Right now a simple 600 bucks would make a world of difference in my life and keep me off the street for a month so that I can move somewhere where actual jobs exist…. and so I am having a very hard time feeling sorry for mega millionaires like Wright and Warren and what they have suffered.

    I have been working for an insurance company and enjoy the job very much. However, starting a few weeks ago I was hit by charge backs from about 4 policies that people could not afford to keep in this economy and since they hit all at once I am wiped out and my December rent check bounced taking the rest of my bank account with it. I have been juggling for several weeks but because I am on 100 percent commission, I have no more balls in the air and I am so tired of being scared and being alone.

    I have friends who have helped me before and I just simply can not ask for help again. I think I would rather drive off a bridge.

    I was hoping the guy I am seeing would step up and ask me to move in with him and I know he has been thinking about it because he told me, but his divorce was just final (after 4 years of her being gone….she left when he had cancer) this week and he was burned pretty badly by it. I can not blame him for being skittish right now and we have only known each other since October.

    Obama is the ultimate insider of insiders right now and I do not believe he has ever really had a clue what it is like to be a poor black child just trying to survive. In fact I think I have a lot more idea about what that is like than he does and I am a middle aged white woman.

  106. madamab: any chance you’d consider organizing an NYC PUMA holiday meetup sometime between Xmas and the New Year (or even New Year’s weekend)?

  107. {{{{teresainpa}}}}

    If you need help, PLEASE ASK FOR IT. Let us know where we can go to donate and you’ll be out of the woods in no time. Seriously. Pride is bullsh*t when you’re in these situations that are NOT YOUR FAULT!

    Sophie: I can do it the weekend after New Year’s. Write me if you want:

    madamab at gmail dot com

  108. Have to go for awhile. Time for a pain med for the momster and to get her back on the heating pad. Plus I need to grab a bite. Did lots of running around today and haven’t eaten yet.

    Also gotta get the momster backon the heating pad. A friend who is a retired nurse stopped by and convinced her the heat would help. I had suggested it, but ya know…that was just me, no RN behind my name. 🙂

  109. (((((teresainpa)))))
    I am with madamab in this.

  110. P.S. Teresainpa and Sophie – NEW THREAD UP – Teresainpa – post donation information on the new thread please!

    Gotta go everyone…see you soon!

    Don’t blame me: I voted for Hillary

  111. MadamaB wrote:

    “BB – Myiq’s brain is very sexy. Just ask Angienc!”

    I didn’t mean it in *that* way. I enjoy good writing and I also enjoy smiling as I observe other people’s romances.

  112. teresainpa, “the AA church is historically bigoted against Gay and lesbian people” …

    So historically … white churches are pro-gay?

    I do not think those are the only two choices. In fact I am sure there are churches in both flavors which are bigoted and non-bigoted. But mainline churches tend to be less evangelical and less gay unfriendly than AA churches….just ask whats her face at dkos who was the main Obamabot for months and months. It was not white women in CA who vote for prop 8 at 75 percent after all.

    I happen to be a very cranky persona online in general and am extra stressed right now, so forgive me if I am not saying this all very well.

  113. Boston Boomer, thanks for the nod. I’ve been out all day since I wrote it. Seems a lot of people are acting synergistically(sp?). MyIq had a post and so did Heidi Li. Thanks for the support. With allies like you guys we will build a more perfect union.

  114. Thanks for visiting the Dissenting Justice, everyone. This year has been very eye-opening for me, and I was already pretty informed and cynical. But I love how so many disgruntled people organized and created blogs and other ways to keep the message going. Keep up the work.

    And just a “tiny” plug – if you have not seen my analysis of how Obama responded to Don Imus versus Rick Warren, it’s worth a read: http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/2008/12/rick-warren-versus-don-imus-obamas.html

  115. Thank you, Mawm. We will never forget all that you and Gary have done for us. We are going to have to light a fire under the Misogenistic Homopobe in chief.

  116. Dissenting Justice,

    You’ve been doing a great job. Keep up the good work! Going to read your post right now.

  117. Dissenting Justice,

    Great blog, I’ve been reading it with interest, so happy that Riverdaughter links to you. Merry Xmas.

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