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Bwahahahaha!

Sit on this!

Sit on this!

That’s our Hillary:

Before Hillary Clinton has been formally offered the job as Secretary of State, a purge of Barack Obama’s top foreign policy team has begun. 

The advisers who helped trash the former First Lady’s foreign policy credentials on the campaign trail are being brutally shunted aside, as the price of her accepting the job of being the public face of America to the world. In negotiations with Mr Obama this week before agreeing to take the job, she demanded and received assurances that she alone should appoint staff to the State Department. She also got assurances that she will have direct access to the President and will not have to go through his foreign policy advisers on the National Security Council, which is where many of her critics in the Obama team are expected to end up.

The first victims of Mrs Clinton’s anticipated appointment will be those who defended Mr Obama’s flanks on the campaign trail. By mocking Mrs Clinton’s claims to have landed under sniper fire in Bosnia or pouring scorn on her much-ballyhooed claim to have visited 80 countries as First Lady they successfully deflected the damaging charge that he is a lightweight on international issues.

Foremost among the victims of the purges is her old Yale Law School buddy Greg Craig, a man who more than anyone led the rescue of his presidency starting the very night Kenneth Starr’s lurid report into the squalid details of the former president’s sex scandal with Monica Lewinsky were published on the internet in 1998. Despite his long and loyal friendship with the Clintons, Mr Craig threw his lot in with Mr Obama at an early stage in the presidential election campaign. As if that betrayal to the cause of the Clinton restoration was not enough, Mr Craig did more to undermine Mrs Clinton’s claims to be a foreign policy expert than anyone else in the some of the ugliest exchanges of the battle for the Democratic nomination.

Payback is a you-know-what!

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152 Responses

  1. I love this comment at RedState:

    “I don’t think anybody was seriously contemplating the notion that Senator Clinton was going to get such a serious role in the administration – effectively what Vice President Biden thought that he had signed up for – so there’s a bunch of people out there who really did miss a lot of good opportunities to keep their mouths shut.

    It’s quite a long list, really – but Senator Clinton does have four years to work her way down it.”

  2. I am disappointed she accepted this offer. All it proves is that women are only good at being second best.

  3. Yeah, I posted this last night on the tail end of the Hillary/SOS thread, so thanks to bringing it into the light of day.
    I think this signifies she IS taking the job, and what the price was.

    Another interesting item at politico:
    “Here’s a look at five major players and the jobs they have apparently not been given:

    John Kerry, State—The Massachusetts Senator and former Democratic presidential nominee was a passionate, articulate and early supporter of Obama, a fixture on both conference calls and the Sunday talk show circuit. Kerry’s people say he never had any expectations of being named Secretary of State but other Democrats say he made no secret of his Foggy Bottom aspirations. “He’s crushed,” said one Senate aide. Kerry would have been a fine pick, sources say, but Obama apparently had his eye on Hillary Clinton since the early fall. He does get an impressive consolation prize: the chairmanship of the Foreign Relations Committee vacated by Joe Biden. ”
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15890.html
    Poor Lurch- damn but I wanted him to resign his Senate seat.

  4. Downticket, I don’t think thatis proven here at all. IMO, this proves that Hilary, like all fantastic leaders in the position of war “Generals”, can see past the battles of the moment to the ultimate victory.

  5. Downticket:

    Who would you prefer to have running our State Department? Someone inferior to Hillary?

  6. “The advisers who helped trash the former First Lady’s foreign policy credentials on the campaign trail are being brutally shunted aside………”

    “Brutally” maybe they should be “shunted aside” in a slow and anxiety producing way instead.

  7. It’s beginning to look like some Clinton Restoration will really happen….. As a PUMA Clntonista I’m encouraged; I thought he might be just waving these good old names at us, not really intending to take them all the way through actual nomination and confirmation.

  8. Think John Quincy Adams….didn’t he have the opportunity to amazing amounts of good in that position? And then, didn’t he become POTUS and do amazing amounts of good in that position too? Am I remembering that incorrectly?

  9. Obama will be the only President we have for the next four years.

    I want him to have the best possible people in his administration, and that includes Hillary.

    Nobody says we should forgive and forget the things Obama did to get elected, but wanting him to fail miserably is childish and unpatriotic.

    If he fails, we all suffer.

  10. Sorry:

    ….didn’t he have the opportunity to DO amazing amounts of good in that position?

  11. Hear, hear, IQ.

  12. At this point Obama better have a really good reason to withdraw his (unofficial) nomination of Hillary or he will look incompetent.

    He can’t afford to play petty games anymore. It’s for keeps now.

  13. buemorning
    Thanks so much for the Kerry news. Somewhere on my blog I keep a running karma list – I’ll be sure to add this – right after my happy dance.
    The other person doing a happy dance – and real winner of this election – Poppy Bush who got a more obedient POTUS now – change sure came for HIM
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/poppys-obama-finally-a-potus-who-will-listen-again/

  14. I was against the SOS thing, but considering the support Hillary is getting from world leaders, the Clintonistas on the cabinet, and the stock market reaction, as SOS she might well just do whatever she wants to and dare Obama to object. So it might be a worthwhile thing. Maybe I was just being provincial. And with all that support, maybe she could go from SOS to POTUS after all.

    A very smart person at h44 says the US economy will have to be fixed from the level of the world economy. Maybe women’s rights and other Hillary signature issues would trickle in from the outside world also.

  15. If this story is accurate then Hillary is coming in from a position of strength, not weakness.

    I’m guessing this is the price she demanded in exchange for not taking the nomination fight to the convention.

    SoS is the second most powerful position in the Executive branch, and is 5 heartbeats from the Oval Office

  16. So, this was the value of my vote? Nope. Not happy in the least.

  17. EOF:

    What do you want Hillary to do? What are her other options?

  18. I still believe her talents are better served in the senate. If anyone actually thinks Obama will really listen to Hillary then they are kidding themselves.

    After everything Obama did in the primary I find it hard to believe how she can admire him or even trust him. Hillary is and was more qualified than Obama. She will do all the work while he gets the credit. Haven’t we seen enough of this in this world. He is an empty suit and just like always the more qualified woman takes the back seat. Coco was right this isn’t going to advance any women movement. This is just telling the women to accept the fact that they will always be playing second to any man. Women are inferior to men and Hillary just demonstrated it for us on a national level. The woman who was supposed to fight for women’s rights told us in no uncertain terms that this is the way it is always going to be.

  19. Downticket:

    Who has more power, a junior Senator or the SoS?

    Obama WILL be President.

    Should Hillary try to help him succeed or try to undermine him?

  20. myiq
    Frankly, my concerns are not about her career, but the democratic process. So, i would have preferred that she didn’t stop the roll call and stayed silent on the voter fraud. But that’s just me. A voter, not a fan.

  21. correction “that she didn’t stay silent on the voter fraud”

  22. Hillary is not a miracle worker. Other wise she would have been the president after she actually won the primaries. So how you guys expect her to solve problems that have been there for decades and more than a centaury. When she can’t solve them who else would be blamed? yes you guessed it right. You may argue that she is not supposed to solve the problems of the worlds but the US involvements in them. And that where people get it wrong, because the US now is deep there it almost there is no difference.
    To me accepting the position is wrong. But she already did the wrong thing back in August when she stopped the role call. Now she is firmly positioned herself in the middle of it. After that there is no return.

  23. ownaa:

    Why is accepting the position wrong?

  24. guess Greg Craig is payback for David Axelrod.

  25. Oh, *I* see what’s going on here. This really should be an amusing 4 years. 😉

    PS. I hear that Barry is trying to get cozy with us beet haters. I don’t care how much he loathes the purple dirt in a vegetable form, I still don’t like him.

  26. “beet haters?”

  27. myiq2xu, on November 23rd, 2008 at 8:27 am

    As SOS she will be taking orders from Obama even when she doesn’t agree with him. If things go wrong she will be blamed not him. In the senate it is the people she is directly working for the people that come to her for help thus taking her cue from the people. She can’t just say no to him if he decides on a certain policy. He will be the PRESIDENT not her and from my knowledge the president has the final say. Anyone remember NAFTA??? Hillary had reservations about NAFTA but in the end BC had the final say and Hillary went out to the public and sold NAFTA. She will be subordniate to Obama. This is a man who can’t be trusted. Have we forgotten his aides talking to Canada and Obama telling the public something else which he denied. Recently the President of Poland just learned this lesson to.

  28. I am in moderation

  29. ownaa: The reason Clinton is not president right now instead of Barry is because her so-called “friends”, the superdelegates, betrayed their own voters to put him in charge. The fell victim to the Haka. Barry’s campaign was throwing its weight around and getting in everyone’s face and telling everyone that Hillary would be media poison. Plus, she’s a woman so they naturally assumed that she didn’t want it as badly as Barry did. I swear, this is how they must have been thinking because nothing else makes any fricking sense.
    If they had gone with Hillary, they would have tamed the media beast once and for all. The voters were not responding to the media. By going with Obama, they gave the media a lot more power. They built Obama and they can tear him down. When the economy started tanking, Hillary would have been there with reasonable policies. She would have won easily and if she had made Obama her VP, they would have won in the biggest landslide in American history. But for Obama, it was all or nothing. Greedy fucks. They weren’t willing to share or be reasonable. And it is people like this Greg Craig guy and David Axelrod who pushed the haka to extremes, alienating all of the old, working class, uneducated sino-peruvian lesbians. Thinking women absolutely LOATHE everything about The Precious and his superdelegate enablers. We will never, never, never forget.
    Never.

  30. I admit to being somewhat ambivalent regarding this whole appointment, but I do find myself agreeing with myiq that the country comes first.

    However, that does not equate with my wholesale delight in the fact that the Obots have to eat sh*t for breakfast with Hillary at the helm! That alone is enough to bring a wary smile to my face.

    Imagine the pretzel gyrations taking place in trying to explain how she was Eva Peron in July but became Joan of Arc in November. Too, too funny!

  31. myiq: The BFF says he found an article saying that Obama hates beets. I also hate beets with an intensity that rivals my hatred of the way the superdelegates sold us out. Put a beet on my plate and I am instantly disgusted by the poor, despicable excuse for a root vegetable. It’s really a problem because my older daughter went to the CIA to become a chef and beets were all the rage. I told her no daughter of mine was to bring a beet into my house or I would cut her off.
    So, Obama is trying to appeal to the beet haters but it’s not going to work. We are not simpatico.

  32. Beet hating is silly.

    Broccoli on the other hand, is vile and disgusting

  33. I think Obama is trapped between Hillary and Biden. Biden kept a low profile during the campaign but he and Hill periodically defended each other during the general. I think they are part of a pact. He helps her with foreign policy, she helps him with knowing which levers to push to get stuff done in the executive branch. Obama doesn’t really have a fricking clue so he will have to rely on former Clinton aides because they were the last ones who knew how to work the government before it all fell apart.
    Nothing will make me forgive the superdelegates have screwed us over but she is demanding and getting a lot of power. Rightfully so. I’d like to think that we PUMAs had something to do with that although we may just be flattering ourselves.

  34. pp3:

    She didn’t publish it, I did.

    Are you just here to troll?

  35. RD – Abso-fricking-lutely!!!!

    Downticket – what would you have her do? Be a good little girl and go back to a Senate that resents her popularity and ability to get so many votes? She can rebuild our position in the world that was torn to shreds by Bush and create dentente that is so badly needed. She will be able to fulfill a crucial role.

  36. I’m not happy with Obama being our President, or with the things he did to get there.

    Unfortunately, the job falls in the category of “too big to let fail”

  37. Okay, so the purges are hilarious. Wasn’t Craig Greg (or Greg Craig?) one of the “Kool-Aid boys” Obama referred to early on? Or am I confusing him with some other Craig/Greg?

    The reality appears to be that HRC is taking SoS. I don’t understand it, I wish she wasn’t. But once again, reality intrudes and bursts our bubbles. Time to regroup. HRC was smart, and I’m surprised Obama agreed, to demand to have as much autonomy as she can possibility get. Including having complete control over who gets hired into the State Department and having direct access to him. Obviously HRC is weary of the Kissinger problem, with James Jones keeping her down. And Obama knew if HRC is hiring her own State Department then all those old buddies who backed him would be out of a job. And that Jones would probably be miffed as well. But he agreed – which means he *really really really* wanted HRC for the job. Why? That’s not a rhetorical question. There were many candidates, some of them good candidates, who would have given their right arm for the job. (Indeed, they sold HRC and BC out to get the job!) Obama knew this. Why did he want HRC so badly that he agreed to all these conditions? The conditions are not unreasonable, but they do buck the trend a bit…

  38. I think it was Anglachel who pointed out that Obama needs to focus on domestic issues if he has any hope of getting reelected.

    That means he needs someone capable to handle foreign policy semi-autonomously.

    He can’t afford to set her up to fail.

  39. Thinking women absolutely LOATHE everything about The Precious and his superdelegate enablers. We will never, never, never forget.
    Never.
    ******************

    Never.

  40. pingpong3: She was right about that. He *was* unelectable until the economy fell apart and the media lifted him to the stratosphere. Just because something *looks* good to you now doesn’t mean that it will stay good. Republican voters stayed home this fall. The legendary GOP GOTV machinery never materialized and the media fought each other to trash Sarah Palin and fellate Barack Obama.
    There is one rule of politics that I swear by: when it comes to the cast majority of Americans like us, the media is not our friend. It looks out for itself. Try this experiment. Turn off the cable news, NPR, the talking heads and evening news for a month. Only watch C-SPAN and read newspapers, foreign as well as domestic. When you read the papers, the propaganda will start to become more noticeable. I think it’s because your mind has to process what your read, categorize it and synthesize a meaning. Logical inconsistencies eventually start to be more noticeable. But when you watch TV or listen to the radio, the messages are pre-digested and go straight to memory. But anyway, give your brain an enema and stay away from TV and radio for a month. Then, turn on Hardball one day or the CBS Evening News with Katie Couric. If you’re like me, you won’t be able to listen to it anymore. You will have trained your brain to pick up on the psychological warfare. You’ll never believe a single thing that comes out of the newsreaders’ mouths.
    So, my question to you is, what is the media up to? They are/have been very friendly to Republicans over the past 20 years. That’s because Republicans gave them everything they wanted. They consolidated to their hearts’ content, they got just about everything they wanted in the cable/satellite market, they’re tied in with the ISPs now. They control the horizontal and the vertical and they strangled the writers last year into pretty much taking nothing. These people are NOT nice people. They are monopolists and free capitalists in the purest of the laissez faire tradition. They own Obama. What is it they want from him in exchange for all that they did for him during the primaries and general election? Where did all of Barry’s money come from?
    If you haven’t asked yourself these questions, you are late to the party. And when you have thought about it long and hard, you’re going to be very, very uneasy.

  41. Joanelle, on November 23rd, 2008 at 9:15 am Said:

    Downticket – what would you have her do? Be a good little girl and go back to a Senate that resents her popularity and ability to get so many votes?

    ————————————————————————————

    My take on it is quite the reverse. By walking away from the Senate that treated her like crap before and after the primaries (even as she went out and campaigned for a ton of these people this fall), Hillary is removing the thorn from their side. Like a good girl she’s removing herself, their problem, from the equation. The Senate no longer has to figure out what to do with Hillary. Hillary is letting them get away with their behavior. They don’t have to deal with Hillary anymore. Instead of taking them head-on Hillary got herself another job down the street. Everybody’s problems solved!

  42. More from the article:

    “Above all she did not want to end up like Colin Powell who was completely out-manoeuvred by the hawkish Vice President Dick Cheney who imposed neo-conservative friends like John Bolton on the State Department and steered the US towards a policy of using torture to achieve its aims.”

    I still think Hillary should be president, but I love the thought that Hillary was planning this payback all along.

  43. I love the tough negotiation. It bodes well for us, although I still can’t understand why she stopped negotiations during the primary. Maybe we’ll never know about this mystery, but it looks like she will be on the world stage with some clout.

    We must never, ever forget, however, what Obama did to American women during this election but perhaps Hillary will make us proud again. We know who we are and we know our strengths — and hers — despite the childish and disgusting treatment our strong women leaders (and therefore we) have suffered during this year’s outrage.

  44. rd – I don’t trust the media. I don’t trust the American voter to pick the best candidate (How did we get 8 years of W???). I don’t see Obama OR HRC as nearly the best that the U.S. should be able to produce as candidates.

  45. I honestly believed that after the primaries the media would turn on Obama.

    They had spent so many years fluffing McCain I never expected them to turn against him the way they did.

  46. Oh, I love this, RD. (By the way, I hate beets too. LOL!)

    Will people ever stop underestimating Hillary? She is NOT a victim. She is NOT being forced to lick his shoes. She is asking for, and getting what she wants. During the primaries, she could not prevail against the entire Party, which was solidly lined up behind Obama. A full roll call count would not have changed anything, since the delegates that voted for her deserted her at the Convention. I told people then that she had made a deal of some sort. This was clearly it.

    The Obots thought they could get rid of the Clintons forever if they elected Obama. That was truly their only reason for having orgasms over a man who does not care one whit about them.

    They were wrong, so so wrong. And I’m absolutely thrilled. Our Hill is here to stay.

    Downticket, on November 23rd, 2008 at 8:23 am Said:
    I still believe her talents are better served in the senate. If anyone actually thinks Obama will really listen to Hillary then they are kidding themselves.

    Downticket, he IS listening to Hillary already. That is the point of the story.

    We may have wrong about Obama’s level of pettiness, I think. His instinct for self-preservation seems to be trumping it.

  47. Reposting. My last comment was in moderation because it included “C*lin P*well.
    More from the article:

    “Above all she did not want to end up like C*lin P*well who was completely out-manoeuvred by the hawkish Vice President Dick Cheney who imposed neo-conservative friends like John Bolton on the State Department and steered the US towards a policy of using torture to achieve its aims.”

    I still think Hillary should be president, and that Obama is unqualified, but I love the thought that Hillary was planning this payback all along. However, we must never forget what we are fighting for.

  48. Hillary Clinton becoming Secretary of State by demanding and receiving concessions as to how much power she will actually wield in her position gives the lie to every objection raised and base observation made by Obama about her during the primary season. This is the most obvious example available to point out to the kool-aid kids that Obama is actually a politician, forced to make political choices for his own benefit since he must, like the rest of us, live in the real world. It’s going to be a lot more difficult to foster the transcendant quality of his personality and presidency with Hillary Clinton being in the loop.

  49. RD to pingpong3 — yes, yes, yes! The control of our media has been an outrage for a very long time. We have to fight it every way we can and support only those media that have not fallen into the propaganda sauce. Harder and harder to do every day.
    I stopped watching and listening a long time ago because I recognized all of the propaganda and bias techniques and it was making my blood boil. I had to stop listening to protect my health….mental and physical.

  50. Alwaysthinking: She didn’t have a choice during the primary. The superdelegates abandoned her. They probably told her to stand down, that there was no support among them for her. Without them, she couldn’t win. By challenging them, she would have embarrassed them and made them take a stand. They were fucking cowards. They didn’t have faith in a woman and they didn’t want to lose. They were completely wrong, I think. They would have won a zillion times more by going with her but they played it safe instead of going with what was behind door number 3 with the new car.
    Now, if I had been her, I would have pushed them all the way to Denver. I would have stood firm and forced them to declare themselves. I would have held out to the bitter end. But that would not have earned her any respect. And those of us in Denver saw how the media narrative was going. *SHE* was harshing Obama’s mellow, not the other way around. Maybe if thousands of us turned out in Denver, things might have gone differently. I suspect we would have all been hauled off to jail. We had a lot of media attention and every chance I got, I mentioned the delegate intimidation. They didn’t want to hear it. All they wanted to know is why Hillary, who was a mere 17 delegates behind due to the RBC giving Obama uncommitted delegates from MI, was not stepping down graciously because they thought she had been beaten soundly. We could not get through to them. They had their narrative, written by someone higher up and they were sticking with it no matter what.
    The superdelegates had an opportunity to let it all play out fairly but they chose the easy way. Instead of taking control of the media narrative and conducting the convention honestly, they capitulated to the narrative. They were cowards and traitors of the American voters and particularly women.
    When she saw the writing on the wall, she did what a good politician should do. She let their craven idiocy stand so that they wouldn’t lose face. She gave them an out and earned their support for other things she would want to do in the future. So, she took a ruined career, because, let’s face it, she will never be president, and won whatever thing she wanted in the future. And for her, that’s Ok. It’s never going to make up for not being president but when Obama screws up, she can always say, “I told you so”.
    But for *us*, the voters, it absolutely sucks. Because this year has shown us that our votes do not count one iota. The Democratic party has singlehandedly proven that there is no difference between the parties and our votes are meaningless. They have reinforced the Republican’s message to voters. And what they have done to women is unconscionable. So, the superdelegates saved face and they ruined the party at the same time.
    Way to go, GUYS .

  51. What I would love to know is when HRC and Barky made this deal. It would give us insight into both people. I’m sure this is all coming as a big surprise to people like Bill Richardson, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Craig/Greg, etc. Is this something they discussed at Diane Feinstein’s house back in June? It would explain then why HRC did not fight for her delegates and a full roll call, and her behavior over the summer. Is this a more recent development? Was this agreement reached before the convention or just after it? It would explain HRC’s campaign schedule and all she did to get Barky into the White House. I very much doubt this is something Barky asked HRC about after November 4.

  52. That Craig fella was the one who originally dismissed her foreign tours as “tea parties” . And wasn’t Kerry the one who touted that Obama had more “legislative” experience than Hillary ?

    To me, the two most detestable of Obama supporters are Kerry and McCaskill. Bill Clinton gets out of his hospital bed 4 days after undergoing a five bypass operation to campaign for that sob who later complains that Bill did not do enough for him or advice him regarding the swift boaters. And McCaskill – less said the better. My fondest hope is that the churlish giggling sycophant gets shown the door in 2010.

    Inspite of my misgivings about her taking the job, I really love the fact that the Cheeto heads are exploding and snooty John Fauntleroy Kerry ‘s face has gotten even longer .

  53. myiq – I thought the same thing.

    The only thing the PUMAs were wrong about? The degree to which the media and the Republicans would assist Obama into the White House. Republican turnout was incredibly low, and the media just simply refused to report on anything that reflected poorly on Obama.

    We were right about everything else. Hillary WAS more electable. Exit polling showed that she would have gotten 9 million of McCain’s voters to vote for her. 26% of that number were registered Democrats – about 2.5 million PUMAs (which does not count those who stayed home, switched their registration to Repub or Independent, or voted third-party).

    Interestingly, Hillary would have lost only 6% of Obama’s voters to McCain. 7% of those voters would have stayed home, the effect of which is uncertain, since we are not sure how many more potential voters would have come out to balance it out on either side. But it’s clear that 9 million voters is a very significant figure.

  54. I LUV that photo in the OP. Thanks.

    And she will do a good job–and she is trying to ensure that she can do good (if this article is to believed).

  55. PP3:

    Any variation of “I’m not a troll, but . . .” is a big red flashing light that says “TROLL”

    Why did you suggest that we wouldn’t publish your comment unless you were intentionally being offensive?

  56. So, I’m guessing Samantha Power in in line for a prestigious appointment as Ambassador to Lower Slobovia?
    Love it.

  57. riverdaughter at 9:53am

    When you break it down like you have it makes sense. Had she fought in Denver, and let’s just say she won, she would have been more than villified by both the press and the AA community who more than likely would have stayed home. Like us, they would have seen “nefarious” actions afoot rather than the fair play that we had demanded. Either way, she would perhaps had failed come November, even against a poor choice overall in McCain, owing to certain communities who would have chosen to stay home as did the GOPers who disliked McCain immensely.

    We now agree that the fix was in long before we woke up to that possibility and had she hung them out to dry she would have been met with more opposition after the fact than what had occurred before. So from the standpoint that rd has spelled out, she played her hand from strength knowing full well he was in over his head. Machiavellian? Sure, but it seems up to now to have worked.

    How he won and what she has achieved are two separate issues, in my opinion. Let’s just say they both needed the other up to a point to get where they both are today.

    We will “never forget” how all this came about, but I am less inclined to view her decision in a harsher light since she did maintain the one thing that was much needed: unity. The unity we may not appreciate but far better than had she fought him to the finish. We could be looking at a McCain in charge instead of Hillary and though we voted to “send a message” our hearts were plainly not in that direction.

    Godspeed Hillary. You may save us after all. Does this make sense?

  58. My biggest regret is that Kerry is still here in MA!!!!!!!!!!!

  59. I’m just savoring the schadenfreude of seeing the HillaryHaters getting shafted.

    Neener neener neener!

  60. myiq2xu

    You’re right – we don’t want him to fail.

  61. PJ – Your rant made total sense to me!

    I’m so sorry you’re stuck with Kerry. Maybe by the time he has to run again, we can primary him with a female candidate who possesses a spine and the ability to formulate a sentence without sticking her size 14 in her mouth.

    Myiq – ClintonFreude! Yes, they are still in charge of the government, Cheetos. No, you didn’t kick them out of the Party. No, Obama doesn’t care what you think.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  62. I don’t want to see him fail either since I am a citizen of this country as well and the last 8 years have witnessed a serious erosion to our beloved constitution and our standing in the world.

    That being said, I wish to have the “fawning spigot” shut off and have the press objectively view this man as a mortal and not some transcendent being that “God has sent to save us” from ourselves. If we are to be stuck with him for the next four years let the press begin to do their jobs for once and quit shoving him down my throat. Every “poop” he takes has been covered ad infinitum for the benefit of elevation and most of us are sick to death of this marketing sell.

    He is not Lincoln, JFK, FDR, or MLK all wrapped up into one.
    Enough already with the slobbering and let’s get to work. His “poops” are no more sanitized than the rest of us!

  63. Will Samantha Powers still be around? The woman who called Hillary a ” monster” . Also I would say Hillary winding up as SOS with this much power in Barryland sort of displays her diplomatic abilities….which she needs for this job. Hillary may wind up being the older female Barry actully comes to respect ….because she has the ability to not just survive but thrive even in the hostile atmosphere of the 08 campaign. Who else would be where she is after all this? Of course I would far, far rather she be POTUS….

  64. RD, that definitely is a good breakdown/analysis regarding Denver and I know you saw much of the evidence there. It makes sense that Hillary had to do what she did and now we at least see hints of her long vision and her toughness. She certainly has more grace, fortitude, and vision than anyone I know!

    And I agree we do definitely know that the two parties are no different (as it has long been rumored). I truly resent that our primary votes were completely disregarded. She won the primary in my state but he won more delegates. Nuts!

  65. paper doll: Think of it this way- she will be the “foreign” president. What we have in this administration is something like a premier and a president.

    from wiki:

    A premier will normally be a head of government, but is not usually the head of state. In presidential systems, the two roles are often combined into one, whereas in parliamentary systems of government the two are usually kept separate. An example of a nation having separate roles for the premier/prime minister and the president is the Fifth French Republic.

    I think the fact that she got this position with so much autonomy says that the SD’s realized that Barry wasn’t going to be able to do the job by himself and that someone with real gravitas and experience was going to have to handle a major portion of the executive’s responsibility. It had to be Hillary. She is not going to be merely a Secretary of State. She is going to be the Foreign President.

  66. New thread up!

  67. Good morning Conflucians.
    OT, and I’m sorry, but I could use tiny smidgeon of help. A post I submitted last night to Real Clear Politics has 8 votes – 2 more and it remains active on that site for 7 days. If you can would pop over to http://readerarticles.realclearpolitics.com/?period=all and find in page this title: “Don’t agonize. Organize.” – Send a Woman to the White House
    The link will take you to my post – if you think it worth keeping up at RCP perhaps you could add a vote?

    (I’m trying to keep RCP a bit focused on women’s issues and not get entirely dominated by the more usual stuff …)

  68. Although I know it is not good for me, I will hold a grudge for a loooooonnnnng time about what happened to my vote in Denver – and will not let my Gov. forget it.

    I also believe that somewhere down the road, one of those somebodies who were involved in the actual negotiations will write a book telling all the gorie details about how Hill got backed into a corner and figured a way out that would be good for her and benefit the country.

    I agree RD with your assessment of votes – I also believe we need to let the superdelegates feel the pain that we felt because of their actions.

  69. It was the DNC, the supers, a compliant press, and the Repubs who decided to stay home on election day that has given us Obama. There is enough blame to go around. Hillary was up against a massive machine that most of us loyalists saw through and had she fought like a tiger, and I was one who wished that she had, the difference may not have done us much good.

    McCain was a poor candidate, let’s be honest. Sarah Palin was a breath of fresh air but again, she was not ready to lead a this point in time. We searched for reasons to qualify our objections to Obama and tried to find a measure of peace in choosing a candidate whose own party objected to so strenuously. If we look back at his nomination, the pundits on the right threatened to vote with Hillary instead. They apparently were not kidding since many stayed home.

    It is what it is. With many former Clinton people being tapped for positions I feel somewhat calmed that some of these same folks were there during the Clinton years which is not at all a bad thing. Just think, we no longer are faced with the possibility of listening to Joe Lieberman or Lindsay Graham as spokespersons.

    And take heart, as of this date, 61% of the GOP voters are in favor of Mike Huckabee in 2012. OMG!!!

  70. Rd, I agree……Just like Bill said at the start of his Presidency, ” you’ll get two for one! ” . Only Hill could do this. Anyone else would be road kill long ago.

  71. PJ @ 10:24–

    My thoughts exactly.

    I feel about Obama right now the same way I felt about Bush after 9/11: I don’t like the guy. I don’t trust him, and I question his ability to lead. However, he’s the only president we have, so I want him to succeed.

    But the ends (his presidency) will never justify the means (how he got there). And I would love for the incessant fluffing by the media to stop. He’s a poltician. He’s not Teh Messiah.

    My biggest fear is that he’ll get the Bush treatment if he does fail, meaning that the MSM and his adoring fan base will give him cover regardless of his performance.

  72. Obama will be the only President we have for the next four years.
    …..
    If he fails, we all suffer.
    —————————

    This is the same argument we heard for years when Bush was President. I think most of us concluded that it was better to see Bush be perceived to fail, along with all he stood for, then to see what he stood for be vindicated in the eyes of the American people, and genuine progress be thwarted for decades.

    A like argument applies to Obama.

  73. DYB, I’m not sure HRC and Barky made this deal. I think she may have tried, but failed to make a dent in his arrogance and his hatred of her in particular and strong women in general, especially strong white women–his mommy issues, IOW.

    No, I’m convinced it was the Big Dog, in September, who got to him, and not necessarily gently and with sweet reason, either. I think Bill dropped a building on him.

    That would certainly explain everything that’s happened since, wouldn’t it?–especially the Clintonista transition team and cabinet choices. (Poor Barack–he tried to sneak subprime queen Penny Pritzker in at Commerce, but that trial balloon got shot down in mid-launch.)

  74. You know, this news is the first consolation I’ve had this year. And the purging of Craig brings a smile to my face.

    Christ if I have to choose between Obama and Huckabee in ’12, I may have to emigrate.

  75. Fantastic thread!- Way better than the Sunday morning gasbags on the tube.
    And paperdoll, go to the politico link I posted near the top, I seem to remember them addressing Samantha Power’s fate also.

  76. Interesting LandOLincoln.

    Yeah the horror of Pritzker averted – I was so relieved.

  77. RD – thanks for that picture – I had been looking for that – one of my favs.

    Hillary as State? Well, I’ll miss her Senate feeds. I don’t know who can replace her as Turbo-Senator, but she’s proving that she wins the arm-wrestling championship. Funny how it is often the cute little number that wrestles the big guys under the table.

  78. I will admit to being in a “sulk” lately over what I came to view as a Hillary defection from her troops. But thank God for Riverdaughter being able to bring some sense to the table on what might have been.

    After reading and digesting certain talking points and theories I am able to come away a little less apprehensive. I think I can also separate his “win” from the SoS decision in a far better light.

    I will never forget and it should never happen again. But I want her to succeed. We need her. Him, not so much.

    Thank God we have a place to come that allows us to air our concerns which eventually leads to clarity of some kind. Tossing ideas around helps to create a method of getting through this.

    My whole hearted thanks to Riverdaughter and her prolific writing which always begs for more.

  79. What a great thread, I missed such a good discussion.

    And it is people like this Greg Craig guy and David Axelrod who pushed the haka to extremes, alienating all of the old, working class, uneducated sino-peruvian lesbians. Thinking women absolutely LOATHE everything about The Precious and his superdelegate enablers. We will never, never, never forget.
    Never.

    Right there with you RD. Supporting a successful country is not mutually exclusive from our feelings for the illegitimate president. Our reputation around the world, and it’s corresponding benefits and dangers, takes precedence. IMHO Hillary recognizes this and wants to repair the damage. She is an avid student of history and a dedicated public servant. She is focused on getting something done, as always. This will be very interesting to watch. I read that James Jones, probably National Security Advisor, is very tough, non-partisan and fearless. I also read that he likes and respects HRC. We can’t have Bambi running the country–we always knew that–so rather than have the ship sink irrevocably, I will feel much safer with HRC & Jones watching our backs.

  80. The Past Week: November 16-22, Recaps & Random Thoughts (Critical Thinking vs. Elation; Pics from “Elation Central”; Drying the Tears of Progressive Groups; Medicare Part D Surprise from the Democrats; Face Reading; Housewives & Ludacris; Stray Dog Update)(UPDATE 1X–Dog)

    http://tinyurl.com/5h8uvx

    I’m not impressed. Barry Farber was all over Craig yesterday…re: Elian Gonzalez. He would make the Clintons look bad and Obama, too. That’s a huge part of why he’ll be out…
    I’m sorry, she’s accepting the misogyny that got this creep into the WH. The media will be quick to undermine HER and let him slide…
    The whole thing sickens me.

  81. frankly:

    Bush DID fail. The argument about him being the only President was used to suppress criticism so that he could be “perceived” to succeed.

    This is different. I want Obama to succeed, but I will not hesitate to question and criticize him. Nor will I forget or forgive how he got to the Oval Office.

    I think appointing Hillary as SoS is a good thing for this country. She will do a good job.

  82. “No, I’m convinced it was the Big Dog, in September, who got to him, and not necessarily gently and with sweet reason, either. I think Bill dropped a building on him.”

    Landolincoln-I was thinking that.

    Hillary’s bodylanguage was so hurting for so long that I feel it hard to agree with Tom in Paine, for example, that the deal was worked out on June 3rd.

    I think Sarah Palin (fear of) also played a part- and the 25-30% of Clinton holdouts. They got that down to 15% which is what I read in June, that Howard Dean was expecting. (They were worried at anything above that).

    Anyway this crisis is so big, that I think everyone has realised they just must get the best people they can for the job. Hillary is trusted abroad. Kerry and others are unknowns.

    However I agree with Downticket too.

  83. I like RD’s point about Biden too. He is close friends with the Clintons, and I think they will be collaborating a lot on foreign policy decisions. People who interpret this as a capitulation on HRC’s part are wrong, IMO. She is a strong negotiator, and set her own terms. That’s also why he chose her. HRC is no “shrinking violet.” She’ll be able to stare down Putin with a smile. Richardson? Please. I wouldn’t trust him to go to the store for groceries.

    bluemorning: thanks for the link about who got the shaft. How delicious is it that Kerry, Richarson, Dean, Craig & Susan Rice all got bumped? I hope Donna Brazile ends up in Siberia.

  84. I must be in some serious pain when I find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with myiq!!!

    We may all loathe all things Obama but our country comes first as helen puts it so succinctly.

  85. Personally, I’m not unhappy that Hillary looks to be taking on the SoS position, or that generally there are seasoned hands on foreign policy. If want to see Obama to be perceived to fail, it’s not on matters of foreign policy — stability there is a good thing. I personally don’t want to see “progress” in foreign policy over what Bill Clinton put in place — though God knows it’s easy enough to institute progress over what Bush has implemented. I was happy with what Bill Clinton implemented, and expect to be happy with what Hillary puts in place.

    Where I want to see Obama to be perceived to fail is on matters of domestic policy. This is the area where Obama and what he stands for can stall progress for decades. His perfunctory, poorly devised, and severely compromised “universal” health care plan is item 1 in how he can undercut real progress. His, and his campaign’s, and his supporters, treatment of the under-the-bus classes — women, gays, working class — I think will hurt those swaths of the American citizenry for decades if the wretched, dismissive treatment of them does not come back to haunt Obama’s Presidency. If his undermining of Constitutional protections, such as in the FISA legislation, is perceived to be part of a successful Presidency, there will never be pressure to revisit those issues — they will have been legitimized under both a Republican and a Democratic Presidency, and will be considered the standard from here on out, subverting the previous standards all Presidents held before Bush.

    In short, if Obama comes to be regarded as a successful President, I think he will define down progress for decades, and perhaps for a generation.

    And most of us don’t have a lot of generations left in our lives.

  86. So, will Guiliani go for the Senate seat? And we lose a woman there, regardless…

    Frankly, what happened to the “all of this will come out after January” comment by Bill? I wish the Supreme Fart would do its job and screw Obama into the ground now.

    You can bet that the media will be after HRC bigtime and she will be painted as castrating Obama. I think she will be undermined herself, sneakily, by the Obama crowd. They can blame her for lots of stuff through their media buddies. No matter what, in the eyes of the media, she will be a convenient scapegoat.

    This is all too cute by halves, as they say.

    The entire set-up is ripe for collapse at some point.

  87. Blue Morning,

    You just made my morning a very happy one! John Kerry is “crushed.” Excellent!

  88. This is one reason I wanted Hillary to take the job. She will make the boring, cautious One’s administration a lot more interesting.

  89. But anyway, give your brain an enema and stay away from TV and radio for a month. Then, turn on Hardball one day or the CBS Evening News with Katie Couric. If you’re like me, you won’t be able to listen to it anymore. You will have trained your brain to pick up on the psychological warfare. You’ll never believe a single thing that comes out of the newsreaders’ mouths.

    I did this month’s ago, and it’s such a relief. Catching even glimpses in passing repulses me. The garish framing, obnoxious personalities, and cartoonish delivery is on a par with Access Hollywood. I don’t drink poison, why would I subject myself to such toxicity?

  90. bb: But we are stuck with Kerry here! The fact that he is “crushed” serves him right. The dirty doubledealer!

  91. madamab, on November 23rd, 2008 at 9:45 am Said:

    Will people ever stop underestimating Hillary? She is NOT a victim. She is NOT being forced to lick his shoes. She is asking for, and getting what she wants. During the primaries, she could not prevail against the entire Party, which was solidly lined up behind Obama. A full roll call count would not have changed anything, since the delegates that voted for her deserted her at the Convention.

    I agree wholeheartedly madamab. Hillary is like a great chess player. She can see the whole board (in a way we cannot possibly from our limited vantage point), and she is looking 5 steps ahead. Her focus is on salvaging the country’s international reputation and security. She made demands, and got what she wanted. Last night some dope I met said he “didn’t get the SOS appointment at all, and she just traveled with her husband.” I responded exactly as you did: “Do not underestimate Hillary Clinton.” I am looking forward to watching her in action.

  92. Seeing Samantha Power on the hardtalk interview on the BBC, was the reason I went off Obama.
    Her vapid foreign policy was shock inducing.

    I don’t like Hill as SOS (I don’t think she’s safe)-but from a selfish point of view, it’s nice to have someone you more or less trust doing foreign policy.

    One reason I liked McCain was because I felt him to be safer than Biden on foreign policy.
    In Europe Mac was definitely preferred to BO on environmental issues. (by those who were actually working on them).

  93. Nice catch, myiq.

    The people you need to win an election are not the same ones you need to run a government. Those with a hate agenda against Hillary will just be a monkeywrench in the works.

    The obots will have to go under the bus.

  94. Let’s not forget what this also means: the Big Dawg is now an “unofficial” top advisor to the Secretary of State. Deal or no deal, HRC is going to talk everything through with Bill. Two for one.

  95. myiq, you say:

    Bush DID fail. The argument about him being the only President was used to suppress criticism so that he could be “perceived” to succeed.

    But the argument that Bush was the only President we had, and that we must all come together as one in wishing his success was offered before he failed flagrantly. The single most prominent such failure, of course, was the Iraq war. We were all supposed to root for him and the success of that war, from the moment the war was commenced, using the same argument you are now offering for Obama. Yet what many of us knew perfectly well is that if he were perceived to have succeeded in that venture, then it would be the most powerful argument he and the neocons could have to extend the same technique to other countries throughout the region and and throughout the world.

    Now of course no one wants to admit to hoping a venture such as the Iraq war might fail, and politically, it would be fatal to admit to such a hope. But given that the perceived success of the war would have, with absolute certainty, brought about more such wars, and that those wars would have been deeply damaging and destructive, who could reasonably hope in their heart of hearts that it would be a great success?

    Of course, even talking about hoping for the perception of failure (sometimes the same, sometimes different from actual failure) is a very delicate matter to talk about. It is very hard to defend the notion that one is hoping for something bad to happen — or, more precisely, hoping for something that is perceived to be bad to happen.

    But the reality here is what it is: politically, in the vast majority of cases, long term genuine success and progress is only brought about by short term failure. If one accepts this fact, then, to be logically consistent, one pretty much has to accept that one “hopes for” the perception of failure in order to bring about the greater good.

  96. what if we to not lose a woman in the senate? Who have we heard of lately from NY who is a staunch supporter of the 30% solution?
    What if she gets to pick her successor? Why *not* Carolyn Maloney?

  97. Pat,

    We’ll just have to work on getting rid of Kerry in 6 years. Or maybe Obama will put him somewhere else?

  98. “I’m looking forward to having you advise me, Hillary.” What a pig. I’m not happy about this at all.

  99. myiq,

    pingpong is definitely a troll. I’m familiar with him from previous threads.

  100. Shaggy,

    Get over it. Hillary wanted SOS and she’s getting it on her own terms. I applaud her.

  101. Pat Johnson, on November 23rd, 2008 at 9:04 am Said:
    I admit to being somewhat ambivalent regarding this whole appointment, but I do find myself agreeing with myiq that the country comes first.

    However, that does not equate with my wholesale delight in the fact that the Obots have to eat sh*t for breakfast with Hillary at the helm! That alone is enough to bring a wary smile to my face.

    ——————-

    (hi-fives Pat) It’s definitely the first bright spot I’ve come across during this entire fiasco.

    PUMA POWER!

  102. insightanalytical,

    I’ve read that Hill supporter RFK Jr. wanted to take his dad’s Senate seat if she won the presidency, and if that’s true, I would expect him to go for it now, with Hill at State. Sure hope so, anyway–unless he wants Interior or EPA instead.

    In any case, it will be especially good to have Kennedy in a position of power, who sees the Clintons as allies rather than usurpers.

  103. When she saw the writing on the wall, she did what a good politician should do. She let their craven idiocy stand so that they wouldn’t lose face. She gave them an out and earned their support for other things she would want to do in the future. So, she took a ruined career, because, let’s face it, she will never be president, and won whatever thing she wanted in the future. And for her, that’s Ok. It’s never going to make up for not being president but when Obama screws up, she can always say, “I told you so”.
    But for *us*, the voters, it absolutely sucks. Because this year has shown us that our votes do not count one iota. The Democratic party has singlehandedly proven that there is no difference between the parties and our votes are meaningless. They have reinforced the Republican’s message to voters. And what they have done to women is unconscionable. So, the superdelegates saved face and they ruined the party at the same time.
    Way to go, GUYS .

    RD: That’s exactly how I see it RD. Yes, she could have committed political suicide and taken on her own party, the O machine, and the media, but she was broke and she would have been pounded. No one was reporting the truth. They never did. She is a strategist, and was looking long term. She lost the battle (due to a lack of fair play etc.), but her life’s work is a continuing story.

    My mother, a Stephanopolous watcher, said the discussion this morning is that Obama “has given her too much power!” LOL!

    You betcha! Rise Hillary Rise.

  104. Lincoln: I hear the RFK for EPA or Interior rumor and that would be a great appointment. His vision and work on the environment is critical right now, and he could start the green revolution that HRC proposed (& that Obama now claims was HIS idea). This is another crucial piece that needs to be executed, regardless of how we got here. It’s a matter of economic and political security.

  105. Me at 11:52: should read “…good to have a Kennedy in a position of power,”

  106. fif,

    Yes, I too hope for Bobby Jr. at Interior or EPA now; plenty of time for the Senate later.

  107. i am somewhat okay with this. If anything it shows that Obama knows he is weak, otherwise, he wouldn’t be agreeing so much with her demands. It makes you wonder what those briefings he has gotten have been about.

  108. Funny how the very worst of the Obots, who listened to Obama’s rhetoric against the Hillary and the Clinton “establishment” in Washington and only took it only to higher levels, now get relegated to being just another member of the Under-The-Bus Coalition.

    They must be stunned. They were overbearing on Obama’s behalf, they were vile on Obama’s behalf, they surrendered any dignity they had on Obama’s behalf — and they are rewarded only with scraps from the table?

    Haha is too good a word for them.

  109. Well, I’m glad she’s getting her own power and her own paybacks. Because that’s what dirty politics is all about , isn’t it?

    Really thought healthcare was her guiding light. Proves that you can’t trust her.

  110. Gee frankly0 are you saying that the obots prostituted their own integrity, honor and honesty on credit and now come to find out they won’t even get paid?

    Hmm that sure would suck.

  111. T,

    I think she knows healthcare isn’t going anywhere right now. Ted Kennedy is too old, and he wouldn’t give her a committee position worth while for her talents, and I really don’t think Daschle is going to do much on the front.

    Sometimes you gotta win your battles where you can.

  112. Correction, I meant Kennedy is too old and ill, so I don’t see him being there for a while.

    Plus, with the economy the way it is, I think Healthcare is going to yet again, take a back seat.

  113. Thinking women absolutely LOATHE everything about The Precious and his superdelegate enablers. We will never, never, never forget.
    Never.

    I think , therefore I loathe bo 😉

    That being said … I agree that Hillary is coming from a place of power , defacto president she will be I feel it ………..
    I think that is the confidence the world has in her , because I do tnot think for one moment the rest of the world has confidence in him ..no matter what tweety and the tweety chorus say …

  114. Gee frankly0 are you saying that the obots prostituted their own integrity, honor and honesty on credit and now come to find out they won’t even get paid?

    Good way of putting it.

    Moral: if you sell your soul, get paid in cash.

  115. Not only do I loathe BO.

    In all fairness, one must spread the loathing around so the DNC gets some, too.
    After all, they picked him and propelled him.

    On a lighter and more amusing note:
    I heard John Kerry has spent the weekend hiding in a basement in Fanueil Hall bwahahahaaaaaa!! sucker.

  116. T, on November 23rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm Said:
    Well, I’m glad she’s getting her own power and her own paybacks. Because that’s what dirty politics is all about , isn’t it?

    Really thought healthcare was her guiding light. Proves that you can’t trust her

    Proves nothing of the sort … sorry, but that doesn,t go from A to B for me , health care is not going to be a reality in this economy , and I trust her implicitly IMPLICITLY
    Her guiding light is the welfare of this country , if you don’t know that , you don’t know her , health care is but one of the lamps she carries

  117. myiq2xu, on November 23rd, 2008 at 9:40 am Said:

    I honestly believed that after the primaries the media would turn on Obama.

    They had spent so many years fluffing McCain I never expected them to turn against him the way they did.
    *********

    It isn’t my job to be a pom pom cheerleader for Obama, if you want to start writing PRO OBAMA stuff go ahead, but I think ALL THE PRESS IS ALREADY DOING THAT! In fact it wouldn’t surprise me to find out years later that many things were covered beyond what we knew and have available.

    The press is all NO DRAMA OBAMA…’he is so cool’ and now you are sounding like you want to put your critical faculties on worship too?!? EEK! Liz Trata the woman hatin wimin described HRC as a DRAMA QUEEN that was a liar…oh my how can she be next to the cool Obama.

    Keep in mind that no one ever found out about all the money that was pumped into his campaign, nor the voter fraud, nor his dealing, nor the gal out in the island…and on and on. I see this as a threat to democracy, and the next elections for president will only be by the very rich or those that are already ‘the chosen’. I won’t be buying any pom poms, to cheer on the blow to our democracy.

    Under your logic I should have been standing at a street corner and thanking BUSH because he got the senior medication coverage done, which he promised during his second campaign and just over look the first election, the war, etc. No No can do…even a Bush can do good, but I have to look at the total picture.

    Obama campaigned with cousin Odinga in Kenya who signed onto Sharia Law…I guess I should just over look that too. Odinga’s campaign slogan also had “CHANGE”. This last point has never been addressed nor examined by the press. My alliance will always be with those that are oppressed. The Press DIED IN 2008. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/12/obamas-kenya-ghosts/

  118. Cleanup at 12:14

    As for the troll’s claim of “dirty politics,” this sentence from one of the editorial reviews of Conason/Lyons’ The Hunting of the President sorta jumped out at me just now:

    “Investigative journalism at its juiciest, The Hunting of the President is a surprising valediction to a far-from-angelic public leader who often outmaneuvered his enemies with otherworldly skill.”

    Call me crazy, but I think we’re witnessing some of that “otherworldly skill” right now.

    Think about it: in a little over ten weeks Barack Obama has gone from CDS so extreme it was rumored he didn’t even want Bill to speak at HIS convention, to effectively turning his new administration in Clinton’s Third (or H. Clinton’s First? 😉

    “Otherworldly skills,” indeed, and BTW, I don’t believe that nonsense about Bill threatening to spill the beans about BO in January. Makes absolutely no sense, and would be quite uncharacteristically blatant and clumsy as well, not to mention self-defeating–one can imagine how such revelations would be spun by the Obamedia.

    Nope, whatever Bill had, he used it in September. The results speak for themselves.

  119. Yikes, I’m in moderation. Forgot and spelled out the T word instead of replacing the o with a zero. Sorry about that.

  120. SwanSpirit: Yeah, healthcare is definitely not going to be a reality, now that the folks remaining in the senate aren’t going to fight for it. And Tom Daschle is working on it too? LOL! Should be an Onion headline, but instead it’s reality

    Now that Hillary has turned her back on it, will leave the senate for good, it’s DOA at least for the next 20 years. That’s my lifetime. And you know what, that’s what the Obama administration wanted.

    And Hillary’s sold herself into the New Democratic Way, hook, line, sinker. I don’t care what demands she’s asked for herself. At the end of the day, she’s a “New Democrat”. That doesn’t bother you?

  121. Woman Voter:

    Am I supposed to oppose everything Obama does, no matter what it is?

    If Obama had won the nomination fair and square, I would applaud him for nominating Hillary as SoS because she will serve our nation well in that position.

    I would feel the same way if McCain had won and nominated her.

    Obama will be the next President whether we like it or not. What can’t be cured must be endured.

  122. Woman Voter,

    I can’t imagine where in the cited comment by myiq you get the idea that he is going to start writing pro-Obama stuff. Riverdaughter doesn’t allow insults of our contributers and regular commenters here. Please cease and desist, and while you’re at it, stop using all those capital letters. I’m giving you fair warning.

  123. T
    Bo should have been an Onion headline doesn’t that bother you ??

    I am a registered nurse… did you think that lamp reference happened by accident? My own health care policy is so sparse , I hope for professional discounts … We can begin with the children.. cover ALL of them and go from there …

  124. “too big to let fail”

    Honestly, I’m a little tired of that phrase. I don’t believe that you can prop up something so big (economy, Potus, etc) if they are indeed weak. Obama is a weak President, Sarkozy knows it, Putin knows it, everyone knows it except hard core Obama people.

    Surrounding himself with strong people can help. But like many have said, IF he chooses to listen. The end decision is his. His behavior over the campaign has not impressed upon me, a person who can deal with dissenting opinion. Now maybe he will surprise me, but until then I’ll wait.

    And besides, with an ever depreciating economic situation (shrinking credit and dollar), I highly doubt that America will be in much of a position to bargain in the global sphere. Which means that Europe will be less inclined to help in Afghanistan/Pakistan which Obama says that he will go into. (Will he?) So all of Clinton’s grit in this arena may fall on deaf ears. In that case, she may be better suited to the Senate. She could aid in party recovery along with the local NY economy.

    So can we afford to have him fail? Yes. Just because we have a bad president, does not make us a bad nation, nor does it mean that Americans are screwed. We need to stop putting our faith in these politicians. If the entire US government were to disappear tomorrow, America would still be here. Did people forget that?

    Unlike some in our country, I’m not going to wait for any of them to save me.

  125. myiq2xu, on November 23rd, 2008 at 1:03 pm Said:
    Woman Voter:

    Am I supposed to oppose everything Obama does, no matter what it is?

    Obama will be the next President whether we like it or not. What can’t be cured must be endured.
    ****
    No feel free to praise him if he does well, but my point is that he supported a man who was signed on to support oppressive laws for women and gays too (which no one talks about). Given those facts, I would use caution as my guide. You are free to do as you like. Bush was the president whether I liked it or not, but I still kept passing out REMEMBER FLORIDA bumper stickers and continued to register voters in the hope that things would change in 2004.

    The misogyny/sexism unleashed has set women back years, and I can’t rejoice in that. You remind me of a man that was with us on May 31st at eh RBC committee hearings. When the fix was in many of us got very upset, and we started marching forward, I was the last one. He said it something like,” it would be such a shame for you to get arrested, being that you are such a nice lady”. I quickly thought about this and countered, ‘You mean WE are going to get arrested’. I recall he had been texting all day and an an odd thing happened when we got to the top…NO ONE STOPPED US!

    ARE YOU AN EMBEDDED AGENT OF CHANGE, EMBEDDED AGENT OR JUST A MUSHY BLOGGER THAT IS SEEING OBAMA’S GOOD POINTS BEFORE HE DOES ANYTHING?!?

  126. I’m glad HRC is in a position with breathing space. She’ll be like Thomas Jefferson redux: out of the fractious Senate, and outside of the thankless role the media and other Obama faithful have planned for her (alternately, scapegoat for his shortcomings while conveniently within dragging range for Clean-up On Aisle One.)

    Obama’s got a hella domestic mess to fix and he can’t hide anymore behind eleventh hour web site “statements”. Congress has already whimpered that it doesn’t have enough seats to act on core Dem principles — so much for Obama’s “big presidency.”

    This is a good position for HRC, powerful in its own right but peripheral to the Obama admin. I wish her well.

  127. bostonboomer, on November 23rd, 2008 at 1:11 pm Said:

    Woman Voter,

    I can’t imagine where in the cited comment by myiq you get the idea that he is going to start writing pro-Obama stuff. Riverdaughter doesn’t allow insults of our contributers and regular commenters here. Please cease and desist, and while you’re at it, stop using all those capital letters. I’m giving you fair warning.
    ****
    No problem, I hadn’t realized that having a discourse was seen as an insult and fair enough he is a regular here and has more to contribute than the common folk. I thought he was clearly able to defend his position or where he was going with it, but if a differing opinion isn’t welcome I can accept that.

    Thank you for the dialogue and it was fun while it lasted.

  128. FIF said: My mother, a Stephanopolous watcher, said the discussion this morning is that Obama “has given her too much power!” LOL!

    Well, it can make Obama look weak…but it can be turned into a Hillary hatefest on a dime! Staph himself wrote his little book about the Clintons, do recall….

    I’m telling you, it’s going to be a circus in the end…

    I’m so glad I don’t have a party to really worry about anymore…the whole crew makes me ill…

    I’m more concerned about the trashing of women at this point…

  129. Woman Voter,

    I think it is insulting to imply that someone who blogs here and has posted again and again about misogyny in the Obama camapaign, the media, and on Obama blogs is suddenly going to become an Obama worshipper. I would be intensely insulted if you had said it to me. There is nothing wrong with “discourse.” Just tone down your anger a little bit and avoid over-the-top accusations–and all caps.

  130. All the appointments are very interesting. I take no pleasure nor am I encouraged by any former Clintonista who shot both Clintons down to get on the list. Just because they were good or acceptable under Bill Clinton does not mean they will be real Dem’s now. Bill Clinton was elected by the people. We won’t have that kind of ELECTED POTUS for another 4 years on top of 8 years of Bu$h – if we are allowed a real election. These formers are part and parcel of the “selection” process – they all -especially the cipher -0-. dance to the piper’s wishes. I guess my view is clouded but I only see Bill Clinton as the only good leader – he wasn’t and isn’t perfect as a human being, but he knew/knows how to govern and lead the people of our country to a better life – as does Hillary. They are consonant professional statespeople. Really, we are talking about world politics.

    If anyone is suffering under the illusion that the media will some how now tell truths – I am amazed. Organizations did not foist -0- to the top based on illegal activity to ask them to do good for the world after the fact. The whole world ecomony will have to be sucked dry before they mention who sucked it dry. There have been so many canaries chirping in childlike wonderment – look at the money being thrown at -0-. This is mean but there are two that really were outstanding in their “reasoning” D. Brazile and Cris Rock. When they tell the truth and show what motivates them – you really should believe them. These two have never been nor will ever be elected officials – think of the elected ones who chirped the same song – just not quite so starry eyed.

    I trust Hillary to do what she can and I am not holding her responsible to correct this epic horrendous mess. I admire her but know she is not God. I will be voting for only candidates I know enough about and have records of accomplishment rather they be male or female. That’s being optimistic that we will even have elections going forward – you know, where they actually count the votes. The future under Bu$h III looks dank and scary.

  131. BB:

    Don’t worry, I’ll take care of this thread.

  132. You mean you don’t want me to stick up for you?

  133. Hi all, I just thought I’d share this jewel from my fav (not) BBC reporter:

    It looks as if the Hillary Clinton job rumours are true though not necessarily at State. But I am hearing squeals here in Washington from Obama loyalists who regard a Clinton re-birth – anywhere, though particularly at State – with unabashed horror. Would be counter to everything Obama believes, one senior figure (a definite player in the new administration) mutters. His thinking is not really based on policy but on drama and dramatic style. The Clintons are ghastly to work for: divisive, driven by demons and rages and angst whose real cause is too deep-seated to be capable of anything but psychological analysis. To have them in charge of the nation’s foreign policy – whatever Henry K says – would be disastrous: this is the argument. Will Barack hear the anguish or is he already cut off from the troops?

    I hope she denies him access.-)

    Justin Webb 17 Nov
    http://tinyurl.com/5ko3pe

  134. BB:

    I didn’t say that, I just didn’t want you to feel you had to moderate any comments here.

    I always appreciate someone sticking up for me.

  135. I don’t like Obama one bit, but I love the USA and I don’t want to see it crumble into a pile of memories that maybe-might be mentioned in a global history book for a while, until the starving population dies out from the world-wide economic and political and infrastructure and agricultural disasters that proceed from the disintegration of our country, based on a beautiful and doable ideology and system.

    I got the feeling that myiq2xu was of like mind. Okay, maybe not thinking quite as far in potentially appocolyptic advance.

  136. myiq is right: We have to accept what is and figure out the best way to get through it. Having Hillary at State and apparently on her own terms is not a bad thing.

    She’s limited in what she can accomplish in the Senate due to the good ole boys seniority system.

    And, I feel she probably had the good counsel of the Big Dawg in deciding what to do. I don’t think they are only looking at what’s good only for Hillary but how she can be the most effective.

  137. miq2xu

    You asked me why it is wrong for her to accept the position of SOS. I can make some argument to justify my point which frankly stems largely from a deep mistrust on her boss to be. But if we look at the situation say from a career angle, forget the fact that she will be vulnerable to people who showed extreme hatred towards her, but what she expect to accomplish that all the people before her for decades failed in doing.
    Then there another angle which makes me worry the most. Let’s for a moment consider a situation where Obama is found to be in a lot of legal mischief e.g. birth certificate or may his associations what would she do. The birth certificate thing if he failed to produce a copy then we in serious territory here. Because that is no small matter it is the constitution after all. Backing him up when he is the nominee of the party is one thing but if he breaks the law that is totally different matter. Then what is left of our leader because so far in spite of what she did there is no one else I would rather call my leader. If some one stood and say we are in a period which some call post-constitution, then all hell breaks loose for real.

  138. The problem is — HOW can anyone believe ANYTHING that 0-zero promises?

    He is the king of flip flops — He is backtrack.

    Did Clinton get the ONE the write his promises in blood?

    Whatever that creep will never ever be the president — or my president. GWB was the figure head for 8 years — he had no more leadership skills then this bs-ing teleprompter reading illusionist.

    I do NOT trust anything that backtrack says — until it is verified and authenticated as being “somewhat” truthful by an unbiased third party.

    My prediction is that 0-zero’s leadership style will be in the Chaos model. This is an extreme form of the “permissive leadership style”. And since we’ve seen his passive aggressive side — we will see very bloody 4 years.

    And if anyone makes another remark about Palin’s “experience” need I remind YOU that Sarah Palin was running for the office of VICE PRESIDENT.

    Palin had tons more REAL experience than Obama. In fact she was the only candidate of the 4 — that had executive experience.

    Katty Couric’s parting advice to Palin was to “learn to govern” — perhaps Cat Couric needs to learn how to be a journalist — she is the example in Dictionaries under the entry — bimbo.

    But then I do not watch tv — have not watched tv for YEARS. I can not even stand listening to the talking heads on US “news”.

    The US media sold the voting public a badly flawed candidate — and I hold the US media responsible for any harm that the ONE does to this country. I can’t boycott the media (since I don’t watch it)– but I can boycott the sponsors of the vilest of the talking head “news”.

    I am keeping my fingers crossed and hope that RD’s somewhat more optimistic view — (Clinton as Foreign President) is correct.

  139. I’m with ya, Downticket. It’s so typical to resign women to the do-all-the-work-but-get-none-of-the-credit corner. The obots who degraded and smeared Hillary now find that their candidate has put his former opponent in charge of one of the toughest positions in the incoming administration. Why? Because she’s got the experience, the brains and the natural talent. And yet, BO won by denying and denigrating Hillary’s abilities. I’m beyond pi$$ed.

  140. myiq: I’m just savoring the schadenfreude of seeing the HillaryHaters getting shafted.

    Neener neener neener!”

    That is the only joy this PUMA finds in Mudville.

  141. Northwest Rain, the Clintons know exactly who and what Barack Obama is, that’s why they had a three-man legal team hammering out what is surely an ironclad contract, before she’d accept SoS.

  142. I am just happy that backstabbing Bill Richardson will not get his heart’s desire – SoS. Karma is a BITCH!!!

  143. Joanelle, on November 23rd, 2008 at 9:15 am Said:

    Downticket – what would you have her do? Be a good little girl and go back to a Senate that resents her popularity and ability to get so many votes?

    ——————————-

    Hillary managed to accomplish a lot under Bush so she can still do the same. There is so much work needed to be done on the domestic policy front that Hillary can accomplish.

  144. It is curious to me that the “big” leaks on Hillary are in the British press. I wonder if a word of this is true.

  145. If any of the CDS big bloggers has a stroke because of this, I will personally buy beer for half of the blogosphere. Two if it’s Arianna or Markos.

  146. Hillary was defying the “good ol’ boy” system that was in place. Does no one remember that she asked us to keep up the fight for her? She worked from the outside in. Women understand what that takes and what that means.
    I have read and heard that ‘that’s not what Hillary is about’ to not work within the system. That is horseshit. She was defying the system when she continued to run. We all know that Donna Brazierre, after Kerry’s defeat in 2004, went about planning for 2008 – with Obama already in mind.
    Indeed, Hillary – from all that we had learned – was throwing a wrench into the ‘game plan’ ,as it were, that the DNC had concocted up by refusing to quit. Even those I know who were adamantly opposed to Hillary acknowledged that she was tenacious. Unless one had just arrived on the planet, there was no way to see that it was a nearly impossible feat – with the media against her, the idiotice Rules Committee where Obamatrons could speak w/o regard for time but a Hillary supporter was stopped with “we wud like to go home soon from the committee, with the huge dollars that Obama was bringing in, the snotty little remarks BHO and his wife continually said about Hillary, with her debt accruing, the the rabid obot bloggers – yet, there we were – doing all that we possibly could to help her become the nominee.
    I am pretty sure – based on where the count was stopped at the Convention – that she would have been the nominee.
    So, if the reports are true that Hillary knew she was going to be given SoS prior to going to the Convention —- she can go ahead and do that job that Condi Rice has turned into a photo op at every port. I am contemplating where to go with this information as it looks like I may have been told to go to hell.

  147. oops – saw a couple typos

  148. I came over here to see how you folks would react to the news of HRC being considered by Obama for SOS. And I have to say, I was thoroughly entertained. Thank you.
    WD

  149. Any time, we’re here 24/7/365

  150. myiq2xu, Broccoli is a delightful food served semi firm and with lemon butter on it. It is also really good in Chinese beef with broccoli. It is also full of natural estrogen so it gets rid of all those little chin hairs us bitter knitters are growing against our will.

  151. Joyce, I think you mean “Bill Richardson the backstabbing weasel.”

  152. doublemint, don’t even get me started on the wretched liar Donna Brazille. If someone would hit her with a pie every so often I might stop hating her with such a white hot passion.

    I will never forget her on TV pretending she was impartial…. lying gender traitoring old poop head that she is.

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