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Soggy Bottom Boys

Yeah my neck is red!  You wanna make somethin’ of it?

201 Responses

  1. repost from down below

    I must step back and think …….. wasn’t Richardson on his knees in Oregon …. while blowing Barry he kept repeating “secretary of state, secretary of state” I heard the same thought was going through Kerry’s head. John Edward’s was saying “attorney general”

    I am so disappointed in HRC for campaigning for this guy that frankly I don’t give a shit anymore what she does. Still love her ….. but I think our affair is over. Sarah is still looking good. Wink, wink.

  2. I’ll meet you on God’s golden shore!

  3. Hillary as SoS is safer than being in Congress. I predict that the democratic majority congress is going to be considered crap in 2010. There is no quick fix for the economy, and a filibuster proof democratic held congress is going to have no where to hide.

    If Hillary stayed a Senator she would be blamed along with all of them. As SoS she will shine because this will be the only area of the Obama regime that can be fixed at this point.

    The economy is going to stay crappy for at least two years maybe longer, and he isn’t going to change healthcare anytime soon. The doctors have a strong lobby. What is going to make healthcare change is people going overseas for operations because they cost about 1/5 as much as in the US, and the healthcare is better overseas. Competition brings all things wonderful. But, of course, the average Obot isn’t going to be able to afford to go overseas for that much needed operation 😦

    I would keep in mind that Hillary must have worked this deal out with Obarfme before he won. This is probably why she campaigned for the Obamanation at all.

    But what about after 4 years? What will be Hillary’s next step?

  4. ok what happened? Did HRC accept Barry’s overture to be Sec of State?

    Madamab dont be mad I am just asking….is it official?

  5. fuzzy — it is official as “unnamed sources say” in the NYT — nothing is going to be official until after Thanksgiving.

    btw myiq — I think your red neck is sexy.


    Back in June after the last primary when Obama went for a secret meeting with Clinton at her Washington townhouse, I wrote a piece called “Whatever Lola Wants Lola Gets”

    Now we know what actually went on in that closed door meeting at Clinton’s Washington home back in June when Obama went to see Clinton hat in hand after Pelosi horsewhipped super delegates to come out and declare for him. Now we know what Lola wanted. And now we know what Lola got.

    Four months before a stock market crash and a collapsing economy that all but sealed the victory for any Democratic candidate no matter who it was, Obama surely felt that he couldn’t and wouldn’t win as the nominee without Clinton’s support or her voters. So he requested that meeting at her house which took place behind closed doors. The inside information at the time was that he offered her the Vice-Presidency in return for her support and she turned it down, understandably since, while Cheney had been the ventriloquist and Bush the dummy, usually the VP job is purely symbolic with no official Constitutional duties.

    But it doesnt take much logic and insight to see now what was probably negotiated at the time. In all probability, after turning down the offer of VP, Obama offered her any job she wanted in an Obama administration if he should win, in return for her support. And she agreed. Which now explains a lot of Clinton’s seemingly over the top support of someone she had campaigned against saying he wasn’t qualified ( which happened to be the truth).

    go READ the WHOLE thing – here

  7. Crap Crap Crap!

    this year has got to end soon It has been 1 big disapointment after another!

  8. Oh my long distance Boyfriend got an Interview up here at DCF…he works in south florida for DCF….it may not all be bad!

  9. well As Simofish said….My love affair is over also. What do we do now?

  10. Yep, it sure is.

  11. What is DCF?

  12. How can I sound very dissapointed in her and not sound like I am Hillary Bashing….

    Should I wish for a special envoy to Iran consisting of Pres Obama V-Pres Biden and Nancy Pelosi and whom ever is President Pro Temp of the senate to fall into the sea?

  13. Department Of Children And Families her in florida

  14. Are we finished?

  15. simofish, on November 21st, 2008 at 5:58 pm Said:

    I am so disappointed in HRC for campaigning for this guy that frankly I don’t give a shit anymore what she does. Still love her ….. but I think our affair is over. Sarah is still looking good. Wink, wink.

    I have the same sadness I feel when I see a woman standing next to her man, his arm around her — when I KNOW that the night before he beat her and threw her down the stairs. Hillary was abused by the media, by 0-zero and the 0bots — next we’ll see the male dominance pose by 0-zero as he stands next to his “little woman”. Sexist pigs will always be sexist pigs…………

    What ever — she’ll have her brains sucked out and in 6 months or less she’ll be tossed aside. THEN Richardson will be installed during an elaborate coronation ceremony — after the inner sanctuary has been cleansed of female contamination by the male priests.

  16. Myiq – you got a chip on your shoulder regarding your choice of music??

    Dak – I have been wondering about the Preservation Hall players in NOLA – they were wonder if you like jazz and I do. Talk about music matching moods – hows about a “good” dirge. Every time I think of Hillary not being POTUS and who is – dirge urge from the best. Most of them used to be average age 79? I can’t hear it anymore but I surely remember it.

    Simofish – my Emma(cat) is a seal point with a white spot on her chest just like yours in the pic. I think you said yours is 9 nine old? Emma was interviewing for a new home in a restaurant parking – very busy parking lot. She was nimble, gracious and obliously hungry with a too tight plastic flea collar on. She joined our “family” of present cats and dog who loves cats and shortly increased it by 5 more cats, all of which were born in my bed in a box as she was not going to go through that alone gf. I am now down to two cats – Emma(spade) who is full grown and weighs in mightly at 6 pounds and her son Tut Denali. Tut is grey like Myiq’s cat pic he once used here(even has the smae white spot). Tut weighs 20 pounds and is a bit strange – I love him. The pet store placed the two sets of twins for me in that litter. It is now brutally cold here in the mountains – mine stay in. I leave lawn mower shed door cracked if any are out on their own.

    Hillary is going to do the best she can where ever she is. She is the only elected official I trust now. I’m not going to question her – the situation is odious at best.

  17. will Hillary even last 6 months? maybe Bill could retain her seat in the senate?

  18. Yeah, I hate to see her do this, too. What on earth is she thinking? Higher profile?

    Or that no way the good old boys are gonna let her be president, so she’s gotta take what she can?

    Sigh. It sucks, no matter how you slice it.

  19. I am supremely disappointed in my girl…

  20. Boo:

    I ain’t got no chip on my shoulder.

    Why? You wanna try to knock it off?

  21. Northwest rain, on November 21st, 2008 at 6:28 pm Said:

    simofish, on November 21st, 2008 at 5:58 pm Said:

    I am so disappointed in HRC for campaigning for this guy that frankly I don’t give a shit anymore what she does. Still love her ….. but I think our affair is over. Sarah is still looking good. Wink, wink.

    I have the same sadness I feel when I see a woman standing next to her man, his arm around her — when I KNOW that the night before he beat her and threw her down the stairs. Hillary was abused by the media, by 0-zero and the 0bots — next we’ll see the male dominance pose by 0-zero as he stands next to his “little woman”. Sexist pigs will always be sexist pigs…………

    What ever — she’ll have her brains sucked out and in 6 months or less she’ll be tossed aside. THEN Richardson will be installed during an elaborate coronation ceremony — after the inner sanctuary has been cleansed of female contamination by the male priests.
    My worry is that she will give credence to the farce being tossed around of “208 being the Year of the Woman” NOT! Some how it brings sadness to me because this man was not made accountable for his sexist campaign and her voice will be ‘his voice’, she won’t be given the latitude of a Madaline Albright nor the respect.

  22. Question: will PUMA abide disaffected HRC supporters? Hillary as SoS is beyond the pale for me. Please, God, may the cat get her tongue. No, no, no, no!!!

  23. They at least had Hillary for a while.

  24. Hillary made lemonade out of the lemons she was handed.

    The Democrats kept their money machine O-zero, and now there are a lot of new little democrats who haven’t got a clue. Lots of voters with money burning a hole in their pocket.

    Are they smart enough to figure out how they have been duped, and get mad? I seriously don’t think so. They will keep voting blindly for democrats until it becomes painfully obvious that democrats in control do no better than republicans in control.

    Hillary has picked a future that will leave her blameless in the aftermath. She is to be admired as the quintessential politician, and the person we all knew should be President.

  25. SOD
    From Roch. NY your well-wishes are appreciated! … 😦

    [sympathy accepted and wanted]

  26. Myiq – yep

  27. just got done doing dishes

    Yeah, what do we do? I am numb. Reminds me of breaking up with a girlfriend. Over it. Time to move on.

    I want to go after the media. Where is Lady Lynn?

    Do you think the Obots will STFU now regarding HRC?

  28. Jennie-cant get excited about this -just saying NO DEAL to Hillary as SOS.

    Myiq2xu is the sock puppet indentifier on its high setting tonight….?

  29. So have any of the politicians who sold out Hillary gotten invites to the O’s cabinet? Kerry? Edwards? Richardson? McCaskill?

    Maybe that was part of Hillary’s deal too? That they not get positions in his cabinet?

  30. I believe there will be numerous tr0ll attacks on us and they will be supported by faux “pro-Hillary” sock puppets…

  31. Do you any of you think her accepting the position could have something to do with Hillary/Bill wanting their lives back in 8 years …??

    The thought did cross my mind earlier .. After all – it takes a certain kind of person that wants to sit in congress/senate for thirty + years …. nothing wrong it but just saying . I have always thought the Clintons had a great capacity for Living Life & Loving It .. ! .. and if so ….. sooner , rather than later would be the time to begin doing it … Maybe what I imagine their life to be like is only my dream …. cause it is a beauty … laughing .. good friends ………….great places to go ….. giving their time/money to helping people all over the world ….. Free from money worries .. .books scattered all over their rooms …. enjoying each other + family & friends …………..and only the two of them making their schedules .. Free at last .

  32. Hi everyone! Sorry I haven’t been around that much this week. It’s been a busy one for me.

    Myiq, I saw your comment on the previous thread. I was happily reading what everyone had to say and then saw myself being chastised. I emptied the moderation file and retrieved a bunch of comments from spam.

    Those Shakesville commenters are awfully prissy, aren’t they? After reading about “The Yankee and Cowboy War” at Cannonfire, I have concluded that I’m a “cowboy” even though I’ve lived in Boston since 1967. I was born and raised on the prairie, and I guess it’s in my blood. Who the heck wants to be a prissy Yankee like John Kerry?


    Were Democrats always this boring and full of themselves? Hey I’m still a liberal, but does that really mean I have to join PETA and become a vegetarian?

  33. Briana, thanks for the link to the Lola post. It makes sense.

    Jennie, I totally agree.

  34. not saying there are any sock puppets in the room now making way for the future tr0ll invasion….

  35. Isn’t Richards still up for consideration, IIRC?

  36. If we are putting country first, I would say Hillary as SoS is the best thing for the country right now. That is of course, if she isn’t allowed to be President.

  37. How does the Clinton SOS reconcile with being of service to a man that is less qualified and who campaigned with his cousin Odinga who signed onto Sharia Law with full knowledge? How, does she explain that big thorn in the saddle of the ‘Democratic Party’?

    Will the USA SOS support Odinga as he too goes for the top spot in Kenya again? Does the end justify the means, and do we just ad sugar (heeps) to drown out the bitter taste of the rotten lemons?

    So, can we as voters expect to be denied our votes from here on in, now that she has become part of his administration and in so doing sanctions what they did. Can any of us trust the elections again? Will there ever be an investigation or is it really the NATION that is run by what ever thugs are stronger, and anything goes? So, many questions have been left unanswered, so many and will our democracy survive long term given these new ways of disenfranchising voters…

  38. And I’m glad Hillary is taking SOS, if it’s really true. I want to see her on the world stage. The wimps in the Senate were never going to let her do anything anyway. Now at least we’ll see her in the news and hear her views.

  39. simofish — don’t get your hopes up — I waded over to the big old orange cesspool & the nicest thing anyone had to say “not to worry, Obama will provide the “substance” she will just be the ‘face'” BWAHAHA — they are so deep in the kool aid they think it is Obama, not Hillary, with the substance!

  40. dont think hillary is the fighter I thought she was….good luck getting peace in the middle East!

  41. Will Richardson really accept Sec. of Commerce. That’s a real back of the bus job, if you ask me. HHS isn’t very powerful either. Hillary is going to be the star as long as Obama doesnt undercut her with some advisor in the WH, which he might very well do. If he does, I hope the claws finally come out.

  42. I too will be deeply disappointed if Hillary actually does become SOS. As a NYS resident, I have to say I really appreciated the work she did for our state.

    Who Patterson picks will be interesting.

  43. Michelle Obama to take Barak’s Senate seat and in a one time only constitutional coup she will also hold Hillary’s seat…..

  44. BB– Joseph Cannon has a story about Jim Jones taking the job of National Security Advisor:

    Hillary will be the Secretary of State, it seems. A few posts down, I reminded readers that the SOS position was robbed of its usual significance and power during the Nixon administration, when national security adviser Henry Kissinger began running foreign policy, shunting aside William Rogers.

    The Kissinger of the Obama administration will be Marine General Jim Jones, who is poised to become Obama’s new national security adviser. (There was previously some talk of Jones taking the veep position.) This piece makes clear that Jones is demanding as much power as possible, so I don’t think that my Kissinger/Rogers reference is wide of the mark.

  45. I guess the humiliation will never stop!

  46. angienc — I am just so fucking angry — that prick up there strutting around with his klingon wife. The one thing I must say ….. he sure is rewarding all his pals with his cabinet selections — HRC being the exception.


  47. Jennie – Kerry got a committee .

    rumoured – richardson to be commerce sec.

    I haven’t read anything about McCaskill…

  48. katiebird yes I agree there are people today that still believe that kissenger was nixons SOS for his entire 1 1/2 terms!

    you are one of the few people to know it was William Rogers!

  49. I heard McCaskiller will be the new Drug Czar…as Director of Drug Enforcement Agency~!

  50. Ha! Obama’s going to appoint himself drug czar… just for the free samples.

    (Ok, sorry, that was rude)

  51. kb — I know that Jim Jones isn’t an uncommon name, but isn’t it freaky that our modern day version of THE Jim Jones right hand man is actually named Jim Jones?

  52. It doesn’t matter who Patterson picks. NY is a mess, an impossible one. Too bad a pragmatist is getting a post in the QVC cult of Obama.

    Michelle is NOT a klingon! LOL!

  53. Simo
    she was totally screwed, I completely agree and I’m not forgetting either.
    But I think this was the best thing she could have done under the circumstances
    How many of the CDS afflicted wanted her completely banished?
    They can all eat their shorts.
    She’s not going anywhere!

  54. simofish — I’ll never forgive those dumb fucks either.

  55. angienc — Yes!

    Fuzzy — That’s weird. I think McCaskill’s ex was busted for drugs……

  56. Well, I wish her luck but I still don’t trust him…I will pray for her, but she wasn’t given any respect, during the primary nor at the convention and Health Care….it lost too!
    “He Loves Me”

  57. “He Loves Me”

  58. Well, I wish her luck but I still don’t trust him…I will pray for her, but she wasn’t given any respect during the primary nor at the convention and Health Care….it lost too! 😦

  59. Katiebird,

    I saw that story, but haven’t read it yet. I don’t know if Cannon is right or not, but I have to believe that Hillary knows what she’s doing. There has been plenty of negotiating over this apointment. I think she has made sure to get some commitments from Obama. I’m going to just wait and see. I definitely think her chances of getting health care in the Senate were nil and she knew it. This way she will have some influence. She’ll have a platform and if BO tries to stab her in the back, I think she’ll know how to handle it. She is no wimpy Colin Powell or William Rogers.

  60. I’m really depressed about her taking the SOS job. There’s no upward mobility in that position. It’s the last step before being put out to pasture politically.

    I didn’t expect her to challenge Obama in 2012. After all, she didn’t challenge him in Denver when she should have. But I was hoping that she’d be a thorn in his side and push her agenda through Congress as a member of the Senate.

  61. A big plus as far as I’m concerned is that Hillary being SOS is just about the worst thing that could happen to the O-bots. They are going to be miserable. Watch out for exploding heads!

  62. Katiebird thats why the post is perfect for her!

  63. Wish I could have seen the look on Mr. Tingle Legs face when he found out she accepted. Diarrhea bag.

  64. WV @6:34 pm said:

    My worry is that she will give credence to the farce being tossed around of “208 being the Year of the Woman” NOT!

    Farce is right WV – how in Gawd’s green earth could anyone say that with any dignity…that’s sick. Had not heard that one.

    dirge dirge dirge

    Our youthful members here are going to have to set
    the record straight for the sake of posterity. Every truth is being skewered – I just broke my rule and listened to my local ABC news. Someone said the appointment of Hillary shows how confident and savvy BZero is. Hm, I see it as he is scared sh!tle$$. But really that gives too much credit also – he plans on “talking” to all the terrorist, possibly charming them – yeah boyhowdy – he sure charmed our nation of voters. Wonder Boy – no creds all hype.

    dirge dirge dirge

    I really hate the pessimistic feeling I have been feeling the last few weeks.

  65. I’m proud of her. She deserves it and if she’s happy with it, I’m happy for her and wish her all the best. She has my full support.

  66. Piper,

    One Senator alone cannot push an agenda through Congress. It has been made perfectly clear (at least to me) that Hillary is not going to get any support for her agenda from the rest of the Senate or Nancy Pelosi. John Kerry announced months ago that health care legislation was DOA.

  67. McCaskiller not Hillary!

    bostonboomer I have spent the year tring to make lemonade out of sour scrub lemons….I am all out of sugar and its only 1 step up from koolaid….

  68. bb–So I guess 18 million votes and $5.25 only gets you a tall caramel macchiato at Starbucks. Very depressing.

  69. Myiq2xu did you not say sock puppets come in pairs?

  70. fuzzy trying to be stealthy as a 300 lb bear can be….

  71. HRC as SoS? She is going to be the scapegoat upon which all international crisis will be blamed. When is Israel going to get the “green light”? The Obots require one, a scapegoat that is. They all ready have an international crisis in their “Leader”.

  72. Piper,

    I guess you and I must have a different opinion about the Sec. of State job. I don’t consider it to be the equvalent of cup of espresso with carmel flavoring.

    I still think Hillary is smart and savvy enough to know what she’s doing. So shoot me.

  73. SoS under Obama means “save our ship.” Accepting is, in my view, a bad move as she will get all the grief and none of the credit for BO’s foreign policy missteps and successes. Clinton will do well; she always does, but at the end of the day as Bush put it, hes the “decider:” His decisions so far don’t inspire anything in me but apprehension of his fascist megalomaniacal tendencies and irritation at his perpetual juvenile condescension; condescension that he both exudes and encourages in his bubble headed followers.

  74. I’m trying to convince myself here, so please don’t strike me down too fast. Hillary is an incredibly pragmatic person. That is one of the things that I love most about her and made me think that she would be a great president. She is reinventing herself, much the way women always do. I am sure that Hillary and Bill have been through all of the scenarios. I do not think that Obama will necessarily serve two terms and even if he does , Hillary will be a beautiful and strong 68 year old. She is a force and I am trying my hardest not to doubt her decision. She will be an even better candidate next time she runs. 😉

  75. Well, I certainly understand some of you guy’s concerns w/r/t HIllary as SOS considering Obama’s penchant for stabbing people in the back.

    And Kerry got a committee? To me that’s just as good as having him rolled under the bus. He would have gotten a committee anyway due to his seniority in the Senate. Big Whoop!

  76. I am not less angry because Hillary has accepted SoS. I just don’t know what to do with all the anger I feel at the MSM, BO, and our countries politicians. I certainly can’t blame Hillary for being the great politician she is.

    Obama will not be able to fix the economy in two years. The congress will go back to a more even split, or to republican control. I hope the US is still a world power at the end of 2012, but it is shaky.

    Hillary has picked a post where she will be seen as the only movement forward by the Obama administration. It’s as if she saw the recession coming.

    I would suggest finding a way to police the LIberal MSM. Fox news has even gotten a little Obamafied for my taste.

  77. Ann – do you work for Citi?

  78. Preservation Hall Jazz Band continues to shift and change members, Boo ….

  79. I can see it now — Middle Eastern Trip — Hillary does all the talking and Obama just nods his head, just like the debates, ‘uh, uh, um…yeah what she said”

  80. It’s been everywhere – 2008 is the “year of the woman.”

    Hillary Clinton. Sarah Palin. Gender bias. Women as swing voters. Women as the key voting bloc. Women as the backbone of the economy. Blah, blah, blah.

    But let’s look at these Election Day facts: There was a net gain of four new women in Congress – one in the Senate and three in the House. The number of women overall went up a whopping one percent – from 16 to 17 percent. Big deal. It’s far short of the 30 percent experts say is needed for real change – and ridiculously far from the 51 percent of the population who are women.
    Although the above was not labeled confidential I will recon that most here know about it. Any hoo, I am off to cry my sorrows away, as some times when the third wave gets started, it would have been nice to have Senator Hillary Clinton standing by strong, and her voice that sung so sweetly in china when she gave her speech on ‘Women’s Rights are Human Rights’…Hillary : We’ve Come a Long Way, Baby! (Read “More Info”)

  81. Business week just called New Orleans the 10th best place in the country to hang out during a recession: yall welcome to come visit

  82. dakini
    how many cots do you have?

  83. I don’t see Obama doing anything. His answer is usually to ask someone else to do the dirty work for him.

    I expect Obama to only be a talking head, because that is all he has ever been. It is the puppet masters behind him that tell him what to say and do. I just never really knew who they were. I expect BO to leave Hillary alone to clean up the Bush administrations mess.

  84. If, if, if. Just wait and see what happens. We’re not getting what we wanted so we keep buckling towards subordinate desires. Just wait. We might be pleasantly surprised.

  85. BB–I suppose we do because I don’t see this as a great opportunity for her. I see this as a way of neutralizing her. As I said in a previous thread, she’ll be made to be a scapegoat for the Obama administration just as she was made the Dems scapegoat on Iraq. Fool me once…

    Hillary is smart and savvy, but that didn’t help her during the primaries when Team Obama, his minions, and the MSM completely smeared her. Yes, she wound up with more votes in the end, but it cost her the nomination and the presidency. (Well, that and caucus fraud/disenfranchisement.) So it doesn’t matter how smart and savvy she is, they’ll still crucify her the first chance they get.

  86. Hillary is going to be a scapegoat. She already knows that. She simply chooses to take that hit on her terms. I don’t know what those are but more power to her.

  87. Regency–Is that from ‘The Secret’?

  88. I expect Hillary to get a peace plan between the Palestinians & Israel … It’s doable – Clinton came close very close …. Carter got Egypt /Israel together – all fighting has stopped between the two since that time…

    Hillary can do this . The only block I see ‘possibly’ is if the Likud party wins the election .. then she may be dealing with Netanyahu.. that could be harder, all though I have read that he is also rather more open to ‘change’ in the area than ever before .. don’t know for sure. .. BUT – …If Livini wins .. That would be GREAT ..!!! Two Female Leaders bring peace between Palestine & Israel …that would be perfect .. !

    imo .. It is hugely important for the peace process to be completed – if there is one thing that is most important for ‘us’ – the US .. to achieve again …. is the status of being an ‘honest broker’ … again . Hillary can do that – piece of cake .. !

  89. Never even read–or watched the dvd of–‘The Secret’.

    I’ve spent 12 months in one panic or another. I can’t keep up with it anymore.

  90. Boo Radly, on November 21st, 2008 at 7:18 pm Said:

    Ann – do you work for Citi?

    No, why?

  91. my myiq2xu you have been quiet are the sock puppets out tonight early?

  92. Dak – with the medial age, that makes sense. They were a treasure way back when – worried Katrina destroyed them too. I don’t think they really had a permanent site to play at then. Thanks

  93. NO .. she will not be a scapegoat .. impossible – as the SOS carries out the foreign policies of the democratic administration. They all work together to achieve the policies .

  94. OK — I just had a thought — wow first one in a month –

    maybe the SoS isn’t so bad. She’ll have all this exposure and she’ll do great things and people will finally see how brilliant she is and she won’t be “that woman” any more. Then in 2016 people beg her to run.

    Ok, I am giving way too much credit to the average citizen who places their kids in front of the tv while they heat up tv dinners or opens the fast food bag to place on a plate then watches cartoons with the kids.

    Or like an Obot I know who only watches reality TV and drinks kool-aide

  95. She WILL be scapegoated if something goes wrong. Do not underestimate the power of the Press to make delusion into reality.

  96. The average citizen already loves her. If this is truth, she’ll be great. I trust that much. Hillary, take Condi’s calls, she can tell ya one thing or another about scapegoating.

  97. Especially when the press has had a severe case of CDS for 16 years.

  98. Ann – maybe it was Anj or Ana that was here a day or so ago. She said she worked for Citi and that they were having a “meeting” the next day and she may not have a job. I was just going to ask how it went. Citi stock has dropped tremendously.

  99. Piper: I’m hoping it’s terminal and fatal.

  100. It was Ana.

  101. “…impossible…”

    Well, you see, if she hadn’t shown cleavage, or didn’t “cackle”, or wasn’t so “shrill”, or…. it was the presentation that precipitated the conflict, those “ankles”, that independence of mind, that…. that…. that she was Hillary! The policies were perfect, but the delivery, the presentation……….

  102. Regency not wishing to have the ire of the “Hillary is always right” squad come down on me I just am not that excited about this appointment….

    At what point do we need to disconnect and become more about getting the 30% solution? Hillary has moved on and left her supporters behind she has become fafiated. A gung ho Obamaist….

    At what point do we her loyal supporters say “We have given you the benefit of the doubt enough”?

  103. Ah, I see Boo Radly.

  104. fuzzy…I think you just did.

  105. Fuzzy: Everyone comes to that moment on their own. It doesn’t need to be some collective decision. You’ve come to your moment. I respect that.

    And, please don’t call us the “Hillary is always right” squad. It’s condescending and I don’t think we deserve that.

  106. I was just asking dont yell at me….

  107. SimoFish,

    With Hillary it was ‘who wants to look at her grow old’, with Palin it was she is a ‘Bimbo’ (Katie even helped them out there). They are not going to let her do what is necessary for that you have to RESPECT someone. Did we see a ROLL CALL VOTE? NO!

    Yes, Hillary will always be who she is and will work hard, and for her sake I hope it isn’t some thing she will regret.

  108. Forgive me, let me speak only for myself. I don’t think I deserve that.

  109. I was not refering to you regency I respect you very much….I use overstatement as a tool to make a point sorry

  110. I am off, have a good one and I do wish her well, but the Third Wave of Feminism is moving forward. We can’t let this happen to another women candidate…it was simply too wrong and the impact on women too great a loss.


  111. uyou are going to be a congresswoman someday regency….I want to write tthe first check to your campaign…remember…

  112. Maybe we should have a Hillary bashing open thread tonight? I tend to be the “glass half full” type. Should we have a special thread for those who want to express their anger and disappointment about Hillary? I’ll put up an optimistic thread if someone else wants to do the pessimistic one.

  113. oh and the same goes for little Isis too if she is out there…

    I am off to pack for Disney tomorrow I want to go someplace and forget this whole mess that america has become…..

  114. Just let me know when that one happens so I can not be here. I have a ton of studying to do and I only manage to get things done when I have to not be here.

  115. I was angry when Hillary didn’t fight through the summer and take it to the convention. I thought she should have. The truth is, she is a party loyalist, and this is what she wanted. I’m going to continue to support her. If both she and Bill think this is a good idea, I’m certainly willing to keep an open mind. I’m happy for Hillary and happy that she will be sitting in all those cabinet meetings speaking up for her views.

  116. I am not bashing Hillary…since when is questioning your leaders judgement bashing? Obamabots act like that question the one and you get an ax to your virtual head or if you were obat royalty you can choose the sword?

    We need to remember this folks or we will all become the people we most dispise….

  117. I just think Hillary picked the best way to “ride the storm out”. I would have much preferred that she fight for the nomination, but I think greed was too much for anyone in political power to support her. Or, she knew that the DNC would fight her every step of the way. I watched the convention, and it seems that safe guards were in place to keep her supporters silent.

    The O castle is going to come crashing down on the domestic front, and she found the safest place to be. The lady is smart.

  118. elderj, just popping in to say:

    You SAID it! My sentiments exactly

  119. No need BB. I’ll go back to lurking.

  120. Regency,

    I was being a little sarcastic, but if it would end the bashing, fine. I still love and admire Hillary and I’m getting really tired of seeing this kind of stuff here. I wouldn’t take part in the thread either. But if this continues, I’m going to be tempted to start doing some judicious deleting.

  121. any non-positive comment is not bashing as a gay man I can tell you from personal experience what bashing is…lets not devalue the term like the obats have with “R@cism”!

    Look we are pointing out that Hillary is to good for this administration we are not poking fun at “cankles” there is a big difference here!

  122. Sadly, I think the press will always beat a Clinton up … no matter what . I am only going by the past and up to today……

    However, that has never stopped the “Clintons” before from working – I doubt it will now …

    I said this before – I’ll say it again , I just don’t know if I can take the beatings anymore … lol .. except I’m serious …. I may just have to give up being a political junkie and find some new addiction … ..

  123. Piper,

    No one is telling you to lurk. Why don’t you just defend your characterization of Secretary of State as comparable to a Starbucks latte? I don’t buy the comparison, so sorry.

  124. OK, I’m leaving now. Sorry folks. This has been going on for days and Hillary hasn’t even accepted the job officially. I’ll absent myself. Bye…

  125. Fuzzy – you nimble footed 300 pound bear – most of us understand how you feel and certainly respect it.

    We have entered a whole new period of nefarious politics – criminal politics by our own party. There is no honor nor possible good policy that is going to come out of this charade of a selected woefully challenged D administration. It is a fix. Until I hear otherwise, my trust is in Hillary. If you don’t trust her anymore – I accept that. But I still trust and admire her. It’s okay to disagree.

  126. I am the first to admit that Hillary is brilliant and hard working and the presidency is the job she is most best suited to….I think I should get some credit for that?

  127. BB: By all means, I think that thread may need to happen but be prepared for the mother of all tr0ll invasions. I’m not sticking around for that. I’ve put up with it from a lot of sides for a long time. Everyone is entitled to their feelings but they are not entitled to my ears.

    But on a serious note, the election is over. The country didn’t get the best or the second best that it could have gotten. I have 4 years to get ready to try to defeat this bastard. I don’t care if it’s a lot cause. There has been one two-term president in 40 years and he was a success; I’m not giving Obie a chance to steal Bill’s record or smudge the score. For now, I’m just unbelievably tired.

    And I realize, I don’t know what that means about me and politics anymore. I don’t really care. The catastrophe is manifest. Here we are. Oh, well.

  128. I think this group should focus on getting more women in congress.

    If I had something to do, it would make me less angry about the loss of common sense on the political front.

    On a brighter note, the local news reported two days ago that McCain won Missouri. So Missouri is no longer a bell weather state for who will win the presidential election. I don’t know why it took them so long to announce who won Missouri.

    I hope this means that McCaskill will not get voted back in after not supporting Hillary, but if she gets an administration job, it probably won’t matter.

  129. HRC is a person. She is very bright and tenacious. That is, she is and has all that it takes to get things very right and done AND to get things very, very wrong. I admire her as a person and praise what she accomplishes that warrant praise. I have no desire to bash HRC. However, the people who can’t seem to bring themselves to express their disapproval of what HRC has gotten wrong really trouble me.

  130. BB .. – we don’t need to have a Hillary bashing open thread – we can just go join the ones in progress ..arianna’s , orange cheetos , tpm .. etc.. + more .. heck we watch msnbc to get warmed up ..

    of course, my tongue is in my cheek. 🙂

    bostonboomer, on November 21st, 2008 at 7:41 pm Said:

    “Maybe we should have a Hillary bashing open thread tonight? I tend to be the “glass half full” type. Should we have a special thread for those who want to express their anger and disappointment about Hillary? I’ll put up and optimistic thread if someone else wants to do the pessimistic one.”

  131. No one’s taking your credit away, Fuzzy. We’re speaking in generalities.

  132. {{BostonBoomer}} Don’t Go!!!

  133. Fuzzy .. have a great Time at Disney .. !!!! ..

  134. fuzzy was NOT bashing Hillary — he was expressing disappointment in her.

    I love you all, but please don’t be mean to fuzzy!!

  135. Is Joanie still here?

  136. Who is to decide what Hillary has gotten really wrong? Assuming that everyone is judging Hillary’s actions similarly sets up a straw man then burns it down.

  137. bb don’t go!! WTF — we all need to calm down a little here. Lets not get carried away.

  138. again some one leave the room when we discuss the down side of a SOS appointment….

    SOS is a great job I am sure for the likes of Alexander Hagg and Condecenda Rice ar that Senator that served under bush #1…..

    What kills every SOS is the Middle East it is a puzzle without a solution or a solution that leaves millions dead on either side!

    I dont know if anyone has considered this….

    I didnt want to get into this anyway…not tonight I did not start this….and no one seems to recognize that stifling debate on this or even on our musing of what might be the possible outcome is what Obats do!

  139. I think that we have to respect each others decisions. I am still conflicted. Hillary the pragmatist is moving on and I agree with BB she has decided that it will be more interesting to be on the inside than to be stuck listening to John Kerry for the next four years. I am still stuck on the fact that I hate Obama and what he did to Hillary and just as importantly to our democracy. I still mourn for the days when I loved being a Democrat. But we own our votes and Hillary owns her career. I will always be one of her biggest supporters. Lets be nice to each other, no one else will be.

  140. Hm, just read the thread – I speak for myself only.

  141. Have we been mean to each other? Really?

    If I have, I apologize but I feel that we’ve gone out of our way to be absolutely respectful. We’re trying so hard to be nice that we’re failing in a big way to say what we want to. That’s just as much stifling of the debate.

    And it doesn’t even matter. We’re gonna go back and forth like this for god knows how long. That’s fine.

  142. We Cannot Let Ourselves Become Obats not even in defense of our Beloved Hillary….

    We cannot allow this to Happen or as I said upthread

    “We Will Become the People we Dispise!”

  143. {{{Katiebird}}} {{{BB}}} where have you been – I missed you both!

    I agree BB – Hill was scr@*ed no matter what she did – the “boys” in the Senate didn’t “welcome” her back – didn’t even acknowledge her historical numbers in the primary – she’d get nothing done there.

    As SOS she is in a position to play on an international field. The president of Pakistan called her earlier this week to commend her on her “fine campaign” and to thank her for her friendship to him and his wife.

    She is acknowledge by foreign leaders even though her own party won’t

    Fuzzy, she’s trying to make lemonade out of a whole passel of lemons

  144. Don’t we all preach that women (and in fact all people) should be respected for their choices whether we agree with them or not?

  145. honora has it exactly right — we all need to be nice to each other.

  146. Fuzzy – Disney – wow. Have a great time! I thought you were coming up this way to Asheville for a family
    get to together…. Grove Park Inn, Biltmore Estate. You must keep a bag packed permanently.

  147. I have been in moderation for the last few days with every comment. What am I doing wrong?

  148. Regency — no one is saying you were mean to anybody, but I think people did get their feelings hurt — bb left for example.

  149. My point is that Hillary had the support of 18 million voters and got bupkis for it.

    When the primary was over, I thought that Hillary would be in a position of strength because of her supporters.

    I thought that Teh Precious Uniter would adopt the portions of her platform that he hadn’t already copied, such as UHC or HLOC. (This despite what Kerry had said about UHC being a non-starter.) I also assumed that he would at least consider her for VP. None of that happened. She, and we by extension, got nada from him.

    Now he’s throwing her this bone of SOS like it’s some great magnanimous gesture. This after he claimed that her previous foreign policy experience amounted to nothing more than having tea parties. Plus,

    I know she’ll be great at anything she does, but I think he and the MSM will throw her under the bus the moment something bad happens. I also can’t help but think that this is the end of her political career. I hope I’m wrong. I’m not underestimating her. I’m just not trusting him.

  150. Regency .. I didn’t think anyone was mean … maybe I missed some comments …. I sure didn’t read it .

    No one insulted anyone … etc. All I have read is “our opinions” and thoughts … I thought it was all good .

    we are here to share with each other – as we have been doing for all most a year now.

  151. This is about the process now of how we relate we have been through alot….I can say this for sure Regency is right How do we determine what hillary got right and praise her for it and how do we discuss what she got wrong?

    I would hate to be the first to drink the Hillary Koolaid to me it would be as bitter as the Obama variety…should it ever be invented.

  152. I’m sorry, Angie. I guess my attitude is that whatever happens it will be interesting, and Hillary will handle it well. I don’t feel like watching her get beat up in the Senate, which I’m convinced would happen.

    All I did was suggest a thread where people could discuss their misgivings about Hillary so the people who are happy for Hillary don’t have to participate. I’m sorry I used the term “bashing.” I’ll never do it again. I didn’t know it could only be used in reference to homophobic violence. Now I know.

  153. {{{{{ boomer }}}}}

    {{{{{ regency }}}}}

  154. Hillary’s political career will never be over. Only her elected one. She’s been in politics since long before she was in Office. Just by virtue of who she is she garners attention. I’m not concerned about that.

  155. fuzzy,

    How do you know she got it wrong? Would it be too much to ask for you to give her a chance and wait and see? She hasn’t even officially accepted the job and she won’t start working in it till late Jan. if she accepts it.

  156. Piper – If I remember correctly .. Hillary did not give much hope regarding her running again – Yes, she didn’t completely rule it out – but She went right up to it ..

    I think if she wanted to remain in politics beyond 8 years she would not have taken the position . Obviously she could have stayed in as Senator for umteen years … This one will be over in eight – it seems to be what she wants …

  157. I agree, Regency. And I want to see what Hillary will do with foreign policy. For the first time since June, I actually excited about something and feel I have something interesting to follow in politics again.

  158. Hillary underestimated the evil vile conspiracy to put Obama into the Oval Office….I think that is true does anyone disagree…I respect she continued to fight valliantly on after being personally attacked by the MSM and her own party, am I wrong?

  159. For the moment, I feel that my ability to respond in non-negative manner has been rendered inoperative. I’m going to step out now. I have to pack for the weekend anyway.

    Hasta lueo.

  160. Put a positive spin on it.

  161. bb — please don’t make me feel bad — why are you saying that the term “bashing” can only be used in reference to homophobic violence? I know you don’t mean that. Please, we should not be fighting among ourselves whatever our opinions are about this stupid SoS position. Lets save it for the tr0lls.

  162. I always thought that being Secretary of State was one of the most important jobs in the world. I don’t see why it has to be “spun” — to me, it’s a good thing.

  163. Briana, I wasn’t talking about CIC. Unfortunately, I think that window of opportunity has closed. 😦

    I was talking about her Senate career. She has so many talents that could be put to good use here domestically. I think that’s where she’s needed the most.

  164. BB-
    I am not saying she got any thing wrong in particular it was a process question not a comment about any action about her in particular she has done.

    We all make mistakes and calculated risk has its downside if you choose unwisely….

    Odds are you will not always role a 7 or an 11 you know

  165. what happened to my comments?

  166. Fuzzy .. the answer to your questions are in the future .. . it’s all speculation today .

    “How do we determine what Hillary got right and praise her for it and how do we discuss what she got wrong? ”

    The future will tell us if she got this wrong … I’m not saying we shouldn’t discuss how we ‘all’ feel about it – we should – we always have and we will continue and are continuing to do that now . That is what makes this place special , imo , ..

  167. SOD — LOL — you pretty much nailed it — that is my optomistic outlook of the next 4 years too!

  168. I agree katiebird- particularly in this time.

  169. Absolutely, SOD

  170. Well isn’t this special.

  171. Well, isn’t this special

  172. crap…link didn’t work

  173. I am sorry simofish got me to open my mouth on this….

    I cant wait to see what really happens here….

    Of course I am hoping I can arrange a special fact finding trip for th POTUS V-POTUS Speaker of the House and the President Pro-temp Oh and Donna Brazile and Howard Dean to and some unfortunate and nasty karmic event happens….mmmmm

  174. Angie,

    I wasn’t trying to make you feel bad. I appreciated that you said you didn’t want me to leave. I felt bad that fuzzy thought I was using “bashing” in an inappropriate way.

    I certainly didn’t intend to be “mean” to anyone. I’m just tired of reading the same comments over and over about how Hillary is making a big mistake. How does anyone know that yet? Why not give her a chance first?

    To me Secretary of State is one of the most important positions in government, as KB said. I’m just completely missing why so many are disappointed about it. The election is over and BO won. Now at least we have a chance to see Hillary in one of the most high-profile jobs there is. We are going to hear her speak and see her picture everywhere. I look forward to that. Of course I’m disappointed she isn’t President, but that’s reality.

  175. Piper, I may, I think … I agree with you, what my thinking is that Hillary weighed this carefully along with Bill and that she decided ‘she’ wanted it . I am really guessing, but those are my thoughts presently …. that is really what I am supporting – her right to choose & to back her on that … I hope she writes another book someday ….. maybe we could all find out more … ..

    sorry I misunderstood about which position You were talking about … 😦

  176. It sometimes feels like one cannot say anything that is or could be construed as being critical of HRC (whether fair or not), which has the effect of taking from HRC what I believe makes her most worthy of admiration: that she does all that she does and she is nonetheless a person.

    Anyway, have a good night! Cheers

  177. WTF!? More details please SOD? It sounds like Markos lost out, however, which is another plus for me.

  178. Of course Biden Could choke on a pit in his prune juice…..

  179. Sod .. that is interesting … I wish we had an independent link …. I’ll go hunt for one now ..

  180. fuzzy,

    When are you leaving for Disneyworld? I hope you have fun. It’s about 20 degrees up here.

  181. The issue is NOT being criticial to Hillary. It’s attributing motives to her actions without basis. That’s the same stuff the anti-Clinton people did for years. So, yes, some of do have a knee-jerk reaction to that.

  182. got it … sorry, didn’t see it the first time …

    sux .. it really , really sucks … !!!


    this really makes me puke.. ! So – if you are cruel, sexist & misogynistic .. you get millions of dollars …

    cocktail time ……………………………………….

  183. jvsp,

    Many of us have criticized Hillary. As I said earlier, I was really angry and disappointed that she didn’t fight at the convention, and I have said so. Riverdaughter has written about her disappointment in Hillary on the front page.

  184. BB,

    If SoS was so important why haven’t we heard from Condi in sooooo long? Why was Powell only paraded out when Bush needed cred?

    Hillary can make her own choices, but if she takes SoS and leaves the Senate, we are all invisible again. She justifies everything that happened in the primary process and is a willing partner in stolen elections. Also, in the Senate Hillary was where she was in her own right. Not so much as a political appointee. Taking SoS is a step backward for democracy in that nothing that happened in 2008 will be remembered, or even if it is, it is now completely legitimate.

    To me, what happened during the election was about more than Hillary and Obama. Hillary’s validation of the events by campaigning so hard for Obama showed me that our struggle has to be about more than candidates since even Hillary is part of the system that cheats us and leaves us all behind.

  185. bb — fair enough — I didn’t think you in particular were being mean — I actually didn’t think anyone was being mean intentionally, but I could tell that people were getting offended — including you, and that was why you said you were leaving — I just want us all to not be quick to assume the worst in each other.

  186. Yes, Regency. I think that is what is bothering me so much. Well said.

  187. I was really looking forward to Bill telling us what really happened in the election, I guess we will have to wait for awhile now.

  188. BB-
    tommorrow it was in the 20’s last night here we broke a record for the day ….supposed to be in the 40’s tonight and high 60’s tommorrow!

    BB I live 1 hr and 35 minutes from the back gate to Disney…I have a FL residence Pass that gets me into the park and free parking!

    I go about 15-20 times a year my net cost is about $ 20.00 each time I go…plus food and gas…which is down below $ 2.00 a gallon here in gville!

    I am A little spoiled….but unlike Valdemort I dont fly 1st class!

  189. Thanks, Angie. I feel the same way.

  190. New Thread Up!

  191. BB-I am sorry I did not mean to imply that Hilary had any bad motives for taking the job of SOS…In fact it would be easier to accept her decision if I could just get an inkling of her reasons for considering it.

    I know she will work hard to do a good job I guess I am just mad that she is going to be working hard for “that man” occupying her oval office….

  192. I’d give anything for high 60s, fuzzy! Have a wonderful time and put all of this out of your mind for awhile. Remember,
    Serenity now!!

    Ooops, I mean Serenity Prayer. In the recovery community we have a short version of the Serenity Prayer–“Fuck it!”

  193. fuzzy,

    I feel the same way about “That One,” and I intend to ignore him completely. He won’t be running the show anyway. He’s as much a puppet as Bush.

  194. OK here is what I think……..
    Hillary knows there is nothing she can do about the fact that we have a deficient , much more than inadequate POTUS. She knows , much more than he , what the situation is around the world and in this country . Much more than she despises this idiot, and I know on some level she does despise him and sees right through him, SHE LOVES THIS COUNTRY .
    I think she feels a responsiblity to serve , “around , with, behind, before, and thru ” this incompetent figurehead., and allay what ever damage he might do . My personal belief is that she can and will be the de facto president. I know for certain it won’t be Joe Biden, he is already as big a joke as Gerald Ford , i have no doubt that he will expand that characterization..
    This office of SoS does not give her the due which she deserves; which is the officeof POTUS itself, and that is a tragedy , and one very personal for me .
    But it gives her the opportunity to serve her country and the people in it she loves, now at a time when she must feel she is needed. She is above all; a solution oriented person.
    I firmly believe if Hillary had been elected we would not have such a drastic downturn in the economy , especially where the stockmarket is concerned. The day the announcement is for all intents and purposes made certain that she will have this office the Dow rises almost 500 points, and this was already happening before the announcement for Treasuer was made. It is an absolute indicator of confidence, and not for bo .
    In this office, which I believe Hillary will make uniquely her own , she will exercise more power to assist the country , and the world .
    She must see a need or she would not have accepted. I hate that she is not POTUS, but I think she will exercise her power in this office a way not done before by anyone .
    The ” press” be damned ; they already are.

    I adore the soggy bottom boys ..
    If you appreciate that kind of corn and even corn on the macabre you will also like FodderShock ;

    Songs from The Black Dusty Coalfields Of Southwest Virginia,
    Truth Or Dare Tunes About Livin’, Dyin’, Drinkin’, Killin’
    Along With Other Sorid Details From The Human Condition.
    Chock Full Of Characters Your Momma Plain Told You Not To Hang Out With.


    from their site
    Recently we were greatly honored to have our song, “Dyin’ to Make a Livin’ ” included on a compilation CD/Book.
    The project, features a history of coal mining songs that more or less travels through time, from some of the earliest recordings about mining to more recent offerings, by artists, Dwight Yoakam, Ralph Stanley, Tom T. Hall, Darrell Scott, Natalie Merchant, and even Ned Beatty! The 2 cd/book with liner notes about the songs and artists is an amazing piece of work!


    One of my favorites of theirs is
    Put Down That Chainsaw, Baby , I’ll Take You Back..

  195. I guess I’m disappointed because:

    a) She’ll be propping up Obama and serving at his pleasure.
    b) If he’s a disaster, she’ll go down with him, giving opponents a two-fer.
    c) If what the MSM says is true, and I concede that’s a big stretch, Bill will be effectively muzzled and the work that his foundation does will be hampered by potential conflicts of interest.

    I’m sorry. I’d like to be happy for her, but I’ve seen too much backstabbing from O. It just feels too much like she’s being neutralized to me. I guess I picked the wrong day to delurk.

  196. Call me crazy, but I see this quite differently from most of you.

    Two weeks ago, when the HRC/SoS rumors started, my theory was that Big Dawg had laid down the law to BO during their meeting back in September, to wit:

    1. BO starts campaigning as a Democrat instead of a Reagan Republican, and he gets Bill’s and Hill’s full support, as well as Wes Clark’s, etc.

    2. Should BO win the GE…well, you see what’s happening. Clinton people everywhere, except maybe for the Penny Pritzker trial balloon, and you see how fast that deflated.

    And the ultimate deal? It’s Bill who gets the (shadow) third term, not RR/GWB as BO had intended, and in turn BO gets to pretend he knows what he’s doing, as well as the credit for pulling the country back from the brink.

    Incidentally, this also looks to be an internecine war between the JFK and RFK wings of the Kennedy family, and if I’m correct about who’s now in the saddle, it will be Hillary supporter RFK Jr. who inherits his father’s senate seat from her, either immediately or perhaps after he serves at Interior or EPA.

    And trust me, the Clintons know what they’re doing. They know what a snakes BO and the Chicago Machine are, and the deal their team of lawyers hammered out is surely ironclad and airtight.

    In short, I think we may be witnessing a bloodless coup. The Democratic wing of the Democratic party is quietly and efficiently taking the party back.

    Vamos a ver…

  197. I suppose once you sell your soul..you are no longer in touch..nor do you care.

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