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Lions Share tonight at 8PM EST on PURrrr

Join Darragh, Sheri and me as we talk about Hillary as Secretary of State, the blogosphere flipping out over Clinton admin 2.0, the latest news and why it’s so fricking cold in New Jersey if we have a Global Warming problem.

That’s Lions Share at 8PM EST on PUMA United Radio, (PURrrr)

275 Responses

  1. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Yepper. It’s cold in Va too.

  2. It’s freakin’ freezing here CWaltz. I sure hope this isn’t an indication of the winter to come. On a good note though President Wanker will be freezing his @#^!s off on January 20!

  3. Yup it’s cold outside all right but I’m steamin’ mad. Just read a post at Hillbuzz about a gay bar in Chicago showing nasty clips trashing Palin and here’s a quote:
    “Someone would tell Sidetrack to knock it off if they were making fun of black people…in fact, there would probably be marches down Halsted to shut the place down. Obviously, this particular bar would never show anti-gay “comedy” bits, but I imagine any other bar in town showing clips deriding gay men (similar to the ones Sidetrack enjoys that deride women) would have marches to contend with as well. Fill in the blanks with Jewish people, Hispanics, Asians, the disabled, you name it, and there would be loud outcries against a bar suspiciously breaking its own established rules and going out of its way to mock any other particular group of people.

    But, no one has a problem doing this to women.”

    We have got to STAND UP and say NO- some kind of rapid response team-
    something. We have to fight this starting now or the bigotry will be harder and harder to overcome.
    End of rant.

  4. bluemorning, thanks for sounding the alarm here.. That is a well written piece about a very scary act of misogyny.

  5. OT but can anyone tell me how Daschle is remotely qualified to head up HHS?

  6. I said it before and I will say it again. It’s a darn shame when a minority group doesn’t get that bashing another minority group is counterproductive. If the minorities banded together then they could make headway into the power structure. Instead they seem bent on self destructive behavior. Sarah Palin vetoed a bill that would have discriminated against gays. Doesn’t seem brilliant to bash someone who had your back.

  7. Yay, a new thread!

    I couldn’t even read the last thread without Internet Explorer killing it off.

  8. Cops raided my neibgor across the street and one over today. Whwn I saw the blak and whiteys cmoing up the cul-de-sac I thot they were after my ass.

    You evr try to eat 2 oz’s of god hydro?

    Desptie the false alram I’m in a relly good mode right now.

  9. scrubs-

    You didn’t miss much. Just me going off on how the CEOs are trying to pawn off their problems on labor costs. You see the problem isn’t “really” the 28 million they make to run a company into the ground(excluding their little perks). It’s the fact that they have to pay their employees $54,000 a year and provide health care and retirement.

  10. myiq – how many beers do you have in you, mate?

  11. god hydro? You must have some great hook up.

  12. I just got another thank you from John McCain for helping out his campaign. That’s like the 6th one. I only gave him lik $40.00 plus what I sent Jeff Beatty. Republicans just like me now.

  13. This one’s pretty though. It’s a postcard with John and Sarah on it.

  14. Regency – scan it and post it for us, wouldya?

  15. I, the former Dem., gave McCain/Palin and the RNC several hundred dollars. My husband the REpub. who was hardly contacted by them until I asked them to, and who gave only a small amount at my insistence received a letter from Palin today offering to send him a guidebook to Alaska. I recei ved another letter from McCain asking for more money.

  16. SOD: Go for it.

  17. It’s freezing in Boston too. I don’t think it got out of the 20s today.

    I just loved reading madamab’s post about the cheeto blogs suddenly realizing that Obama isn’t a Democrat. I thought they’d stick with him at least until the inauguration.

  18. The pretty side of the thank you

    I’ve actually gotten pretty much nothing but thank yous. If they’ve asked for money, I’ve just managed to overlook it.

  19. Thanks, SOD. Too bad we have to wait so long, but I’m sure it will be worth it.

  20. Ga6th,

    Daschle is “qualified” because he’s a lobbyist and his wife is a big-time lobbyist.

  21. Sounds damned promising, SOD

  22. That’s pretty postcard.

  23. SOD: I thought you guys were going to call it The Effing View.

  24. It’s the 3rd such piece of acknowledgement I’ve received in the mail. I’ll give the RNC this, they know how to court their fundraisers. They probably looked me up online and saw how I’d only donated to Dems before but have given to McPalin and a dt repub.

  25. Finally, I will get to hear what Regency sounds like. I could never get her to call in to Conflucians Say.

  26. I call in to No We Won’t a few weeks ago. My voice? Not that charming actually.

  27. Hey everyone,

    Hope everyone is well.

    I am worried, tomorrow I find out if I will have a job or not. Since my parent company (Citi) is tanking.

    How is the economy treating everyone else?

  28. My mum works for the County so besides being underpaid and unable to even find a second job that will supplement things, it’s treating her all right.

  29. Oh, and good luck!

    (Never can finish a thought in one post.)

  30. I missed that, Regency. I’m sure you have a lovely voice. It’s just that you start to feel like you know people a little bit here, and It’s fun to hear what they sound like too.

  31. SOD — OMG — you just came up with our tag line!

    “The View from Under the Bus — it’s going to be a bumpy ride.”

  32. We already know that, SOD. You’re all smart and charming. I’m looking forward to the show.

  33. Regency’s voice is nice. I’m the one that sounds like Minnie Mouse.

  34. Ana,

    I’m sorry to hear about your job. Good luck! I hope you get to keep it. Things are getting tough out there.

  35. smoky sultry southern voices — I’ll go with that! 🙂

  36. thanks boston and regency. Honestly, I don’t know what is best to keep it or not. The way things are going at Citi, with their stock down to $6.40 from $40 just last year, I worry for the economy in general. Citi is a very old bank, with a very long history, if it goes down, I worry for the other banks left.

    I gotta say I think JPM will be okay, partly because of their management, they are probably going to dodge the bullet.

  37. Angie: You’ve got teh sexy smoky voice.

  38. Hugs to you Ana. I’ll say a little prayer for you. So far the economy hasn’t harmed us too much. Hubby works for the railroad. They are still making money hand over fist. The union got him a decent contract and the arbitrators will decide in December whether or not the railroad has a valid argument that a person who has worked there for three years and performs the same function as the conductors there longer should get paid a lower percent because they are still “in training.” We do have to pay a higher percent of our health care. We have decent coverage though and pay less then most of America though so we are incredibly grateful. The only gripe I have is that I don’t see hubby near enough. Then again, if he were here I might be complaining he were underfoot.

    I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

  39. Now I do have a questions for everyone, why is Obama focusing so much on the SOS position.

    If you ask me what he needs to do is lay out an economic plan and say who his appointment for the Treasury is going to be. That would be a much more efficient way to show leadership and confidence.

  40. Ana — I hope you don’t lose your job — right now isn’t the time to consider anything but having A job.

  41. Oh yeah did anyone see that Time is laying off 250 people.

    When are these media morons going to get it and start reporting instead of indoctrinating.

  42. I’m not sure it’s Obama as much as it’s the media. They love them some drama.

  43. Thanks angie and cwaltz.

    Now does anyone have anythoughts as to why Obama is focusing so much on the SOS position. I think, considering the economy, the Treasury position is more important. Any news on that front.

    I do hope Hillary says no.

  44. Actually — the economy is great for me — I’ve filed at least one bankruptcy petition a day this month. Yep, that’s 19 petitions so far, and I have clients coming in every week day between now & the day before Thanksgiving to sign & file. (Previously, I filed about 10 petitions a month — and we are a well respected/busy bankruptcy firm where I am).

  45. Treasury seems to be Summers but that’s causing some serious contention among the liberal community.

  46. Ana,
    Take care and I hope you get some good news. And you’re right about the economic plan but I think Obama is more concerned with the price of arugula than he is about setting out an economic agenda. It’s one reason I hope Hillary stays in the senate. We need her fighting for us.

  47. sod — I hope so — he said he likes southern accents!

  48. how depressing angie!

  49. Angie,

    That’s sad. I’m glad you are doing well, but I still hate to hear about all those people going bankrupt.

  50. It is depressing — you can tell how bad the economy is when bk attorneys & pawn shops are busy.

  51. Really Regency I heard Summers was going to get passed over.

    I think Obama really needs to get serious. People are concerned, for real. I live in NY, and things are not good here.

    I mean this inauguration thing, is he kidding me. We are having economic problems, no time for a party. I hope there is a blizzard that day or something.

  52. Angie

    That just plain sad. Personally, I am hoping that Obama says something about a green jobs initiative so that some of the people who get laid off have some hope that they can and will be able to find employment. I hear that Congress is supposed to be extending unemployment and helping by increasing food stamps and aid. they said that the auto bailout is stalled though and they probably won’t do the second stimulus package until next year.

  53. Time can lay off those workers because they figure for the next 4 years they just have to print what Axelrod tells them to print .

  54. I agree with boston angie, that is depressing as hell.

  55. If he were smart he wouldn’t be throwing some big inaugural shindig.

  56. CWaltz,

    good luck with congress. They have no balls. They can’t even decide what to do with the car companies, whether to help them or not. They are again, trying to pin this on Bush.

    Bush is out, when are they going to get that through their thick heads.

  57. Want more depressing news? One of the partners I work for is one of the 6 ch. 7 trustees for this district which means he is the trustee for all ch. 7 cases filed every six weeks. Last year, that meant about 45 ever six weeks. Earlier this year that figure doubled to 90. Last week he got 120. That means 120 petitions are being filed each week in this district.

  58. CWaltz, I think its more that he is just narcissistic. He probably already writing his memoirs.

  59. What kind of party is he planning? I’ve been out of touch all day.

  60. Ana — speaking of the inauguration thing — isn’t it projected to cost 3 – 4x what it cost for W? That is sinful as far as I’m concerned — we are not crowning a king here — in fact, George Washington specifically rejected any title except “Mr. President.” Instead of going forward we are going backward.

  61. Ana,

    He already wrote his memoirs.

  62. It does seem, to me, obscene for Obama to keep having big extravaganzas in the midst of such bad economic times.

    I can’t believe they are still asking small donors for money. (I am on their email list too – from when I got my ticket for the Unity event.)

  63. Then, who’s he want for Treasury, Ana? Who’s got the clout? If it ain’t Bill, I don’t trust them at this point.

  64. What I wanna know is how in God’s green Earth did we get into a position where we can’t let these companies fail or the whole economy is at stake? I thought one of the points of monopoly laws was to prevent one particular company from having too much of an impact? It appears to me that these companies were allowed to become too large to fail and it’s getting worse with all the mergers being allowed.

  65. The worse the economy the more expensive the party.

  66. I don’t know Regency, I haven’ heard any names but the one mentioned. But at my job they were saying that they read he wasn’t going to be in.

  67. Those arugala salads from Whole Foods are EXPENSIVE!!

  68. the only part that bothers me about the auto companies is the idea that 2.5 million people could become unemployed as a result of their failure. I do hope that he appoints some sort of auto industry czar that can look at the numbers and has the ability to see through BS.

  69. Yes angie, it is projected to cost 4 times more or something. I can’t believe this guy. I am telling you, we are going to have a revolution int his country.

    He actually reminds me of Maria Antoinette and the French government before the revolution. It is just ridiculous.

  70. CWaltz, on November 19th, 2008 at 9:56 pm Said:

    If he were smart he wouldn’t be throwing some big inaugural shindig.

    That’s the problem CWaltz — despite the CW, he isn’t smart.

  71. cwaltz, yes some people are going to lose their jobs. But the problem is that these companies need to change. They haven’t updated their product in 30 years. That’s why they can’t compete. They need new management, new ideas, and I am sorry to say this, but they need to get rid of the unions. People are being paid way too much for what they do.

    I think chapter 11 is the best thing for the auto company in the long run.

  72. Regency, on November 19th, 2008 at 10:01 pm Said:
    Then, who’s he want for Treasury, Ana? Who’s got the clout? If it ain’t Bill, I don’t trust them at this point.

    My governor who sold my votes in the democratic primary down the river, Jon Corzine.
    My personal feelings aside, he would probably be good in the job. Plus we would get Richard Cody back as interim governor. I really like Cody and I especially like his wife!

  73. Angie

    My expectations for him are pretty low. Then again, everytime I think that we can’t get any worse the putzes in Congress prove me wrong by exceeding previous balllessness and stupidity.

  74. To be honest, CWaltz, I don’t think that most companies have a monopoly. I just think the concern is the domino effect, the impact one mayor company’s fall, or in this case 2 or 3, could have on the overall map.

  75. $54,000 a year is not too much. The unbions aren’t the problem. I had this argument in the previous thread. The problem isn’t labor, it’s management.

  76. Ana — actually, like many women in history, Marie Antoinette was smeared — the easy scapegoat for the social problems existing in France at the time. The rules of the monarchy were created by men — yes, Marie Antoinette lived within them, but she didn’t cause them.

    B0 reminds me more of the Louis IV the Sun King (without the looks or charm) — I wouldn’t be surprised to learn his WH includes a “Master of the Chamberpot” position — Nancy, Reid & Howie will fight tooth and nail for that “honor.”
    Or perhaps he’s more like Napoleon (without the brains) — overcompensating egomaniac.

  77. ainnj,

    I think you are right, Corzine wouldn’t be bad. But he was also GS former CEO. So its just replacing one GS for another.

  78. I think ch. 11 is the best idea for these companies — a lot of the contracts these companies need to void aren’t with workers they are with franchisees and with vendors — that is probably costing the companies a lot more then the actual labor.

  79. I know they don’t have a monopoly. that said, companies should not be allowed to grow to the point where their failure impacts the economy so much that the taxpayers are required to subsidize them rather than have them fail. We wouldn’t even be talking about bailouts except for the fact that companies like AIG and Ford employ millions. If they weren’t this large there would be no question that a bad business model should mean failure.

  80. angienc, i am sure you are right, and I wasn’t pointing to her, I was more pointing to her time, and what went on in the monarchy.

  81. I disagree CWaltz, on unions, so in this case I will agree to disagree with you. But I think their model of doing business in antiquated and needs to go. Management is no better, but it isn’t only their fault.

  82. I am conflicted. I know that bankruptcy means that the workers that were promised benefits prior become null. Those pensions become another burden for the taxpayers to shoulder.

  83. Ana — I’m sorry — I didn’t mean to imply that you were & you are right — she has become an iconic symbol for the excess of the aristocracy. I was just pointing out that she was smeared because I’ve been thinking a lot about how women have been used as scapegoats throughout history — heck it starts with Eve in the Garden of Eden story.

  84. So you think $54,000 a year is too much when the product being sold is $40,000?

    28 million dollars to run a company into the ground IS the problem.

  85. angie, no need to apologize. You didn’t say anything wrong. I just wanted to correct what I was trying to say. Thanks for the back story.

  86. Since I’m on the topic — Catherine the Great is another smear job because she was a woman — she is one of the greatest Empresses in world history but most people only know the “horse story” about her — a story that is a complete & total fabrication — she died one morning on her bathroom floor of what was probably a stroke when she was in her 70s. The men who ruled the world at the time started that scurrilous rumor to demean her & to overshadow her accomplishments. Funny how history keeps repeating itself.

  87. Oy!

  88. But its not just the money an entry level position gets you CWaltz, it the benefits, the pensions, and a lot of times, and I hear this from union workers, worker aren’t doing their jobs. There is no incentive for a union worker to work with management, they just call their union reps.

    A lot of good companies, provide good jobs, benefits, pensions, and they don’t have unions. All I am saying is that the people who run the unions have become just as bad as the management in the companies.

  89. Personally, I am grateful. Our household is a union household. Thanks to the union we no longer need our wages subsidized by the government. We have health care that we can afford. We have a pension. My husband’s company makes billions. There is absolutely no excuse why he shouldn’t make a decent wage.

  90. Ana — lol! Another case of talking at cross-purposes on blogs! You lose a lot when you can’t hear inflictions & see expressions!

  91. The unions are being used as a scapegoat. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind on that.

  92. According to Steve Diamond, Linda Darling-Hammond, a close colleague of Bill Ayers in the “small schools” and “social justice” teaching movement has been appointed to the Obama “transition team on Education.”


    Darling-Hammond is a prominent and widely respected, though controversial, Professor of Education at Stanford. She shares with Ayers long time support for what I consider an authoritarian and ideological approach to education that includes advocacy of “social justice” teaching (not to be confused with support for social justice itself, mind you) and so-called “small schools.”

    Ayers and Darling-Hammond share a deeply held view that race is critical to explaining problems in education. Darling-Hammond has argued that American schools resemble those under South African apartheid, where discrimination was mandated by a racist white government. Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn believe “white supremacy” controls much of what happens in American life. How they square this argument with the election of their “family friend,” Barack Obama is not clear.

    Ayers has also endorsed Darling-Hammond’s call for whites to repay the “education debt” to people of color that has allegedly accumulated for centuries. Darling-Hammond said that repayment of the “education debt” should be the top priority of the next President. She contributed a chapter to a book edited by Ayers called “Education for Democracy.”

  93. You have to watch this. Unfrigginbelievable!
    Pass it on!

  94. I agree with CWaltz and SOD. Unions are the only thing we have left before we all become low paid serfs. Instead of dissing union, we should all form them.

  95. bb — I’m surprised he didn’t appoint Ayers himself. (and yes, I’m serious)

  96. I’m pretty sure in order to get a ch. 11 plan confirmed the unions would have to approve it.

  97. I wouldn’t know what the MSM is saying, I haven’t read or watched them in months.

    I just disagree with some here on Unions. I am not saying they are all bad, but some cause more problems than solutions.

    The MTA here in NY has a Union. Since its a city job, you get the best benefits, but it has the worst service. And all there is all the time is fighting between Union and Management. This hurts the consumers and it doesn’t get anyone what they want.

    Look I work, at what most consider the bad guys, but they have one of the best health care plans, pensions, and whole lot of benefits. As well as good pay. And they don’t have a union. A lot of companies do well, without Unions.

    Now I know you can all point to the fact that they are laying off people in my job, but a lot of the people being let go are in high management pay positions. Which you wont hear about in the MSM. Not everyone losing their jobs makes 50K.

  98. Steve Diamond also says that Eric Holder is a union buster. Just what we need in a an attorney general, right?

  99. BB – and I thought I was joking when I proposed Ayers for Sec’y of Ed!

  100. What’s wrong with this picture

    One individual making 28 million plus perks to operate a company that isn’t generating a profit for investors.

    28 million for one freakin person. That’s obscene.

  101. CWaltz,

    I see where you are coming from. But I have worked in Unions and outside of Unions, and I have faired better outside.

    I have had a better experience when not working within Unions, I found there is a lot more bureaucracy there, than out.

    I know most people wont agree with me here, but that’s where I stand on this issue.

  102. Angie,

    He probably will appoint Ayers to something or else get a lot of kickback for Ayers projects. Those two are close. I’m convinced of it.

  103. Yes sod — but also all creditors have to approve of the plan in order for the Court to confirm it. I’m not 100% sure (because I don’t do ch. 11 bankruptcies, I do consumer bankruptcies) that because the unions actually have contracts with the auto companies they would be among the creditors that would have to approve any Ch. 11 plan the companies propose.

  104. All I can say is I wish I were in the Teamsters Union. I need a pension, since BO is probably going to get rid of social security.

  105. Well Whole Foods has no Union, although they are trying to get in there, but their employees don’t want it.

    And they are considered one of the best companies.

    state, I don’t work for a union anymore. I work for one of the “big bad companies” democrats here and elsewhere are always dizzing. It’s a lot different when you are working within one of those “big bad companies.” You see things differently.

    But I was a teacher in NY’s public schools.

    Like I said, its a different perspective when you have worked at both.

  106. My husband has worked union and non union. The reason he was paid well at the non union was exactly as SOD said, they worried about the threat of unionization. As it was the company that paid him well laid him off after a year and a half to cut costs. They routinely troll the temp worker circuit to cut costs.

  107. I think the Unions / LAW need to catch up with the times. The UNION should NOT have to represent the “shit” workers — they only drag everyone else down and the Union ends up spending a ton of resources on them.

    Then again — I don’t know if that is entirely true. I had to fire a guy with 12 years over attendance. I hated it. The union refused to give him proper representation. Even though all my paperwork was in order and the guy did get a log of breaks.

    I get frustrated with Unions because I have seen them scam the system. One guy was the local union president and didn’t work for a year. He was forging signatures to get paid and doing dope and talking money. Guess what – everyone covered his ass. BULLSHIT.

  108. Regarding this comment state – “no disrespect but your personal experience can hardly be a measure of plus or minus on this.”

    The same would have to be said for those who work in Unions and defend them because of their personal experience on that level. But I don’t see you making that argument.

    Oh well have a good night everyone, I have get ready for work and go to bed.

  109. OMG,

    Did you hear about this message from Al Qaeda to Obama?


    That is a very reputable blog.

  110. Pension? What’s that?

    Don’t you want to be an INVESTOR bb? That way some CEO can waste your money on a junket and then ask you for a bailout. C’mon. Play the rich folks lotto.

  111. Good night, Ana. I hope all goes well for you tomorrow.

  112. um…no thanks.

  113. night Ana

  114. bostonboomer, on November 19th, 2008 at 10:23 pm Said:
    I agree with CWaltz and SOD. Unions are the only thing we have left before we all become low paid serfs. Instead of dissing union, we should all form them.

    Absolutely agree 100%! We need MORE unions. It keeps these companies accountable. Accountability is obviously what is needed. As it is, everything has run amuck. There is nobody holding anyone accountable and there is barely any oversight at all.

    My husband is in the computer industry (we talked about this on another thread recently – MadamAb and VoterMom to name a few). The industry (companies) can do what they want, when they want. And they do. There is no one to hold them accountable. He’s an ace at what he does; he’s been in the industry for 35 years. Just getting the salary he’s worked up to is difficult enough; ageism enters in; they fire you at their whim when they want. Well, I could go on and on. More Unions!

  115. Ana – without unions, we would not have a lot of the benefits we now take for granted. People, including young children, used to work 16-hour days in sweatshops before unionization.

    No organization is perfect, but unions are absolutely necessary to the personhood of the American worker.

    In addition, unionization or lack thereof has no effect on whether or not a person is a good worker. I have never worked in a union shop, and I can tell you that most of my co-workers in most of those places were lazy and/or incompetent.

  116. Not only that SOD but the company has to take part of the responsibility for a “slacker”. I know with my husband’s company that there was a six month period before you were hired that you aren’t represented by a union. That six months is supposed to be the company’s chance to pick out nonperformers.

  117. It sounds like that Al Qaeda leader is trying to bait the president elect into bombing Pakistan.

  118. night Ana

  119. you got it CWaltz…

  120. Hi madamab! I loved your post earlier. The WORM is turning.

  121. uh oh I said the t word at 10:32 and am in moderation. Let me out.

  122. most of my co-workers in most of those places were lazy and/or incompetent.

    madamab — have we been working in the same places? LOL — you are so right — being lazy & incompetent isn’t a Union problem, it is a people problem.

  123. Sadly, the auto industry wouldn’t be in so much trouble if we just had single-payer universal health care. It’s the health benefits that are killing so many companies. Even doctors want universal health care these days. But our elected “representatives” only listen to Wall Street apparently.

  124. BB: Why would BO need to be bated? He’s pretty much said he’d bomb Pock-i-stan anyway.

  125. Thanks BB!

    Yes, their teeny Cheeto brains cannot handle the truth about Obama.

  126. Bostonboomer — you’ve hit it on the head.

  127. Sigh.

    Universal health care chances- slim to none. We coulda been a contender.

  128. Regency,

    I was sort of kidding. But that was a pretty nasty, insulting message. It sounds like BO is being tested already.

  129. people should start looking at the gov’t and these ceo’s who make a ton of money – Why the hell should elected officials receive money from corporations?

    maybe stop some of the pork belly spending

  130. Reg, Mass-a-two-setts is the worst. For god’s sake, learn to pronounce the names of all states before you run!

  131. madamab,

    After I read your post, I looked at some of the Obamablogs. Josh Marshall just can’t figure out why Obama would want Hillary as SOS. It has him all tied up in knots of confusion. These guys are all going to get exactly what they didn’t want. And all they had to do was read Audacity of Hope. Too bad they never got around to it.

  132. The even sadder thing is those “health care costs” don’t even guarantee solvency to the person they are provided to. I remeber reading that over 50% of bankruptcies were due to medical costs and that over 70% of those bankruptcies actually had some sort of health coverage. How sad is that.

  133. BB – I have never understood why every corporation in America didn’t lobby Congress for single-payer health care. It’s idiotic, the system we have now – and again, it has nothing to do with unionization.

    Angie – probably, since I’ve mostly worked in law firms!


  134. Geeezzz …That’s hard to memorize!

  135. Seriously — learn to pronounce the names of the states before you run? I’d have been happy if he had bothered to learn the NUMBER of states before he ran.

  136. You guys shouldn’t make fun of someone with a speech impediment. Poor thing.

  137. Isn’t watching the cheetos furrow their little brows fun though? Reality is setting in and change isn’t looking so good after all.

  138. madamab — LOL — I should have clarified — until the firm I work for now — honestly, we are a small firm & everyone loves the two partners (who are very competent) & works like they are working for their own family.

  139. Did you hear that McCain won Missouri finally?

  140. BB — The MSM would never report it

  141. http://pnhp.org/

    have y’all been to this website? it’s all about single payer – it’s physicians for a national health program. lots of information. my main man Dennis Kucinich has introduced a new bill……….I agree with BB that a whole lot of the problem in the auto and other industries is the expense of health care, much of which goes to middle men that have absolutely nothing to do with health care at all, they’re just there to make a buck.

    I honestly think this is an issue worth making a lot of noise about – I realize we have to pick our battles carefully – but employees really do suffer when employers have to pay a fortune for health care. something like a third of that money goes to third parties that have no useful function in the process except making money…….

  142. bb — of course we haven’t hear that — the msm is too focused on crying over how their hero B0 could even think about giving that c*nt the SOS job.

    That is why we will not ever hear how McCain also won NC, VA, PA & OH (when you don’t count the fraudulent votes)

  143. sod — LOL — GMTA!

  144. bluemorning, on November 19th, 2008 at 8:12 pm Said:

    We do absolutely HAVE to start saying that everywhere and in every place making fun of women – that is belittling and demeaning them – is NOT funny. I am really hoping we can mobilize and force Obama to appoint a commission on women. Spoke with one of the people working on this today. Usual problems: how to get organized, who will do the work, blah, blah, bah.

    I’ve just arrived in Ann Arbor MI to give a scholarly talk and I can tell you it IS cold here. I am just hoping politics does not come up – I really do not want to get into while I am what feels almost like a vacation (out of DC which is just being flooded by job-seeking sycophants.

    Daschle – vey es mir.

    Ok, late but food has arrived and I must prep for tomorrow.

  145. yes we DO!

  146. Dennis has been fighting the good fight on universal health care.

  147. “Geeezzz seriously…there’s 57 of them! That’s hard to memorize!”

    Well true, but he’s even failed to master just the states he’s lived in! Hillary should start saying Ar-kansas, as in Topeka. 😉

  148. bostonboomer, on November 19th, 2008 at 10:49 pm Said:


    After I read your post, I looked at some of the Obamablogs. Josh Marshall just can’t figure out why Obama would want Hillary as SOS. It has him all tied up in knots of confusion. These guys are all going to get exactly what they didn’t want. And all they had to do was read Audacity of Hope. Too bad they never got around to it.

    I read the audacity of hope three months before the Iowa primary, before I chose once and for all to vote for Hillary right after the New Hampshire Primary.

    It was a nice book if you want something sentimental to read, but it was all noise, just completely noise. he rambled endlessly about a gazillion things without taking a solid position on anything. It was a memento for the campaign to come, (was written in 2006) and, just like his campaign, we found out later it was full of wash and lies.
    I found it in a bin and my room this afternoon and I tossed it in the trunk of my car and sold it to half price books not an hour ago.
    Normally I would have thrown it in the trash, but I hate to waste paper. (They come from trees.)

  149. I agree, kiki. From a business perspective, every CEO should be behind it. From a personal perspective, every American should be behind it. The problem is the framing. A lot of people think it’s socialism and run away from it. But hey, a lot of people were against the Civil Rights Act too, and LBJ still signed it. Sometimed the goverment has to be ahead of the people.

  150. Wyden from Oregon has put out good HC ideas for years

  151. Well I’ll be…

  152. Dennis struck me as a little annoying. He is a congressman for a district near mine (as was Steph Tubbs Jones, may her heart rest in peace), and he has done nothing in congress for a long tenure, though he has a big following of Dennis zombies.
    He is like an authentic liberal whacked out/parallel universe version of BO, only weirder.

  153. I don’t want to assume that UHC can’t be afforded and is off the table at this point – that and women’s issues are my two main issues.

    I’d even put them before arresting and convicting Bush and Cheney, and I’d love to see that happen! but soon they won’t be as able to hurt people as they’ve been….. and lack of medical insurance and misogyny WILL continue to hurt. priorities

  154. G’night all! (Hi Heidi Li!)

  155. Hillary was our only hope for this.

  156. nite madamab

  157. really lil isis? I greatly admire Dennis Kucinich, and have for a long time. I feel like his values are really solid

  158. littleisis,

    He states right out in that book that social programs should be privatized. He praised Ronald Reagan to the skies, and he expresses all kinds of sympathy for anti-abortion people. I agree the book is vague and rambling, but he still came off as a Republican lite.

  159. I like Dennis.I think he has a lot of good ideas and his heart is in the right place. Whether I agree with him or not, he takes principled stands.(although I do believe he is a bit ego driven). I also like that he isn’t one of those in Congress looking for kickbacks from corporate America. I can think of alot of folks i’d like to replace in Congress, Dennis isn’t one of them.

  160. night madamab

  161. madamab — you know, LBJ gets a lot of sh!t for escalating Vietnam but I like & respect him — whether you agree with him or not on Vietnam, I’ve listened to a lot of the tapes of his conversations about what to do there & you can tell he really truly believed he was doing he right thing — he also knew he was throwing away his political career to do it. Same thing goes with pushing through the Civil Rights Act threw Congress (and he had to twist a lot of arms to do it) — he believe it was the right thing to do in spite of the fact that he knew he was going to lose the South for the Democratic party. Yes, the government sometimes needs to be ahead of the people, but there aren’t many LBJ’s anymore — willing to do what they think is right rather then doing what they think will get them re-elected.
    (I also love LBJ because after Hurrican Camille tore through NOLA, unlike W who couldn’t be bothered to leave his vacation, he flew that same day to the worse area of the city, stood in the middle of the night in the street with kleg lights & a bull horn & told the people “This is your President. You are not alone. I am here.”)

  162. OD, I absolutely agree – I didn’t mean affordibility is a real issue, just that *they* would SAY affordibility is an issue.

    you know, like there’s always money just laying around waiting for a war, but never a dime for some kind of social program.

  163. SOD: it was one of those great “books” he wrote that the media was salivating over. I personally didn’t see what was so special about it. I liked Hillary’s autobiography, LIVING HISTORY, much better. Because she got to the point quickly and she made me laugh too. Same with It Takes a Village, because it actually had a central message that she stayed with throughout the entire book for one thing (and it was also just a sweet book that was reflective of the type of person she is and I agreed with almost everything she wrote in it), something Obama couldn’t even do in his autobiography, Dreams From My Father, which I couldn’t even get through because it bored me after a while, and you could tell he could be a great writer if he put some effort into it. One of the first indications that he might be the next GWB was that book. It was so random and he kept trying to use metaphores that made little to no sense. Also, it was fiction, and while it’s cute if Politicians have writing aspirations, I’m not interested in their imaginary facts if I am trying to decide to vote for them.

  164. and by OD, I meant SOD

  165. night madamab!

  166. I liked LBJ too – not everything about him, but he knew how to take a principled stand and stick with it. you just don’t see that much of that anymore

  167. btw — all the typos in my posts are due to my keys sticking.

  168. angienc
    how’s the foot?

  169. exactly kiki — I’m hard pressed to think of one politician today who would do what LBJ did given the climate of the country when he signed the Civil Rights Act — and I mean that — which politician today would throw away their ability to get reelected for principles?

  170. Little Isis, yeah and for someone who supposedly believes so strongly in UHC, Kusinich was quick to endorse BO, despite his position on health care and the deliberate harm his campaign and surrogates did to the cause. Bros before hos for Dennis.

  171. Nijma — thanks for asking! Just as you predicted — just a light sprain. I’ve got a good brace now & I’ll be hobbling around in it & tennis shoes for a couple of weeks.

  172. And btw — of course it happened right before the Monday I was going to start my “get back in shape” program — this election has wrecked havoc on me — besides some sporadic bursts of exercise I’ve been glued to the computer eating nothing but junk since February — ugh! I feel like a slug.

  173. angie, my understanding is that, having been a teacher in Texas, he really did have a feeling for the damage prejudice can do, and he really meant it when it came to civil rights. but maybe that’s obvious – it surely didn’t help him personally or help his party,

    I’m always surprised that that isn’t his legacy – he’s much more tied in historically with the vietnam war.

    of course, that was the horror of the times……if you were white. otherwise, it was just one of the horrors.

  174. Kiki and CWalzt: you wouldn’t think that about Dennis if you were actually witness to the man, as I am and many others. Like I said, he has a cultish following that keeps him in office.

    BB: Yes, that was another alarm bell that went off in my head when I first started to research the man. When I discovered how the cheeto dicks were gaga over him and claiming him as being more liberal/progressive than Hillary, my jaw would always just drop. Where did these people get their facts from, out of their a%$??? It is just reminisce of the character of not only obama, but the zealots at DK who just repeatedly turned this man into a messiah when they couldn’t even be bothered to read his own words. I was stunned. I admit it broke my heart.
    And it just got worse and worse. I noticed from the beginning that there was something so off about him. His followers were creepy and they sent alarm bells off in my head. I was doing a lot of Christain mythos research at the time and noticed that he had a lot of the qualities of the antichrist, though I’m not even sure if I believe in the antichrist.

    I’ve admired and adored Hillary since I was twelve or so, but I knew she wasn’t perfect so I read her and Bill’s books and I researched them too. I trying to make an informed decision about who to vote for, so I even read anti Hillary books like Her Way and God and Hillary and parts of that dumb one by Carl Bernstien. They turned out to be a waste of time, and in the end I made my choice, and knew I had made the right one. I have come to emulate her even more.

    And now that I know all I know about Obama, I am even more creeped out.

  175. kiki — yep, LBJ gets short shrift because of Vietnam — even though JFK started our involvement in it — plus, even if he was wrong on Vietnam, he really did think escalation was the right thing to do — I give him credit for doing what he thought was right & not politically advantageous. That, and the Civil Rights Act, makes me believe that when push came to shove he would do what he believed in — and I’d much rather have that kind of President.

  176. Aw, I loved LBJ!!! He was so cute, and Vietnam and everything else was part of what was left for him by Kennedy. LBJ did a lot of really amazing things, like Medicare, Medicaid, and Civil Rights.
    Kennedy is such a symbol in this country, but I think that has a lot more to do with his potential than anything else. If he had served a full term it’s possible he would have been beaten by his opponent, and if not, we wouldn’t regard him in the way we do today. LBJ did great with what he had to work with, he was just a good man and Lady Bird was so awesome.

  177. Little Isis — go read my post in the Tin Foil Hat Tuesday thread — it is about the anti-Christ.

    also, to answer your question: yes, the kool aid kidz get their facts out of their a$$es.

  178. Little Isis — you are right on that — JKF is a symbol because of the tragedy & the great mind of Jackie who had the wherewithal to start weaving the “Camelot” myth shortly thereafter. We don’t know what would have happened if he had run for reelection, but you are right — odds are he would have lost & the fact is his foreign policy mucked a lot of things up — Cuban Missile Crises, the Berlin Wall & Vietnam.

  179. gosh, just a hint for the clueless…….line the INSIDE of your hat with tin foil, and no one will ever know. geez

    nite {{{y’all}}}

  180. It’s also the BO phenomenon. LBJ was a hell of alot more courageous than JKF with civil rights, but he looked young and vigorous on posters so he had nothing to do with Vietnam and he really was the civil rights President. It might have been seen that way even if he hadn’t been killed, just becaise of style over substance and class issues.

  181. night kiki!

  182. madamab and kiki – I quite agree on the UHC. It makes sense for the corporations, the auto makers esp. Now would be a good time. And yes, it could actually be provided for less money than health care is now costing. (The administrative costs and advertising to compete for healthy customers is significant.) This is the subject of the first article on http://www.blackagendareport.com this week.

    re: unions. The topic is too big for this thread. But, I’d like to say, if I may……. I have worked in a great many environments, both union and non-union. I have actually had more bad experiences with unions. BUT I believe there should be more unions. Workers need leverage and a voice. Some unions probably need reforming – just like our government. I don’t want to get rid of it – I want to see it reformed.

  183. angiec: exactly. The Kennedy’s, the whole family really, is a lot of hype. I think a lot of older people know the truth about him and Robert and Ted now but still love him and see him as a sort of icon because of that tragedy, and it is just a warm sticking point for them as part of their generation. I think if he had stayed in office, we wouldn’t have gotten all of those great progressive reforms under LBJ.
    The Kennedy Family is another thing I have read a lot of really great books about. Facts I have learned:

    1. The K men really had very little regard for women, and cheated on their wives as a sort of inherited stigma from Joe, the Patriarch
    2. JFK had various health problems, and it made him less effective in office, particularly because the medications he took made him have an alarming sex drive, making him something of a sex addict. He had syphlys, gonnahrea, ect. Sexual addiction is a very alarming condition, as bad as alchoholism or drug addiction or something like that, and it makes a person somewhat ineffective for holding a serious job
    3. Jackie regretted weaving her “camelot myth” later in life. She realized it was a farce.
    4. JFK did not allegedly, really want to be President that much. It was more an ambition of his father.
    5. Why Ted Kennedy is a respected man in this country sometimes escapes me. I’m happy he’s reformed his ways and has become a good man, but Chappequidic was so horrible. I mean, that was just awful
    6. The White House under JFK was something of a huge swinger party.

    I could go on, obviously. Angie, I read your AntiChrist post and it was so much along the lines of what I was alarmed about.

  184. Seriously — yep, and lets not forget who appointed the first AA Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall — that’d be LBJ, not JFK.
    LBJ talked the talk & walked the walk. As little isis pointed out — the Great Society (medicare, medicaide, education reform) were all LBJ.

  185. Seriously:

    I know that’s for sure. People are very shallow. I don’t know. History might have been so different if there wasn’t such a martyr legacy around the k men. I don’t know about JFK, but I absolutely love RFK. He was the only K man I liked. He actually, I think anyway, would have made an awesome president. When he was attorney general, he protected JFK a lot by making sure J E Hoover didn’t release all of the illegal, damaging information on JFK to the public.
    Plus, he had an affair with Jackie, which is so cool. I love Jackie O. MO is nothing like her. Imagine, having both brothers!!!

  186. LOL little isis — I’m totally on board with you with the Kennedy’s! Whenever I hear the name I think of Marilyn & Mary Jo — (and yes, as I posted on the Tin Foil Hat thread — I think they had a hand in both of those “accidents”).

  187. Interesting that Barack and Michelle emulate Jack and Jackie. Ha.

  188. Night kiki!!!

  189. I like RFK best too & I adore Jackie — in fact, the best quality of all the Kennedy men was their ability to marry good women.

  190. BTW — was it Addison’s disease that JFK had?

  191. Yeah, Addison’s. I absolutely LOVE Jackie. She had a dirty sense of humor and she only married JFK for money and his good looks. Though she really loved him and was the only one in the White House who didn’t engage in a sex free-for-all, in an effort to protect Jack Kennedy.
    She adored Hillary. When Hillary first became First lady, she said something like, “She’ll be able to do something besides smile and wave and look pretty and cut tape.” Hillary was very upset when she died.

  192. I wonder why B0 doesn’t release his medical records(and no, I don’t consider a one page letter from a doctor saying he is in “good health” to be a release of medical records) — makes me think something bad is in there.

  193. litle isis –and she married Ari for his money only — but he was allegedly very, very charming & their first years together were happy too. Plus, he had a hella lot more money then JFK.

  194. angie, it absolutely ASTOUNDS me that a man who has freaking KILLED A WOMAN would feel the need to weigh in in this race and undercut not only the only first tier female candidate ever, but also the person who wants to bring to fruition the issue he’s supposedly worked his entire career on. The sense of entitlement astounds me.

    God knows if I’d been responsible for the death of a black man, I’d stay the hell out of this race. It would UM kind of look BAD for me to be endorsing hrc and slamming Bo under those circumstances, and people would be right to be outraged.

  195. myiq — are you around? are you going to open a late night thread?

    Also, anyone else here besides me, little isis, Seriously & Fran (if Seriously & Fran haven’t left)

  196. I’m here. Bugger off.

  197. I’m here.

  198. Seriously — exactly f*cking right — he killed that woman — he drove off the bridge, walked past houses & instead of stopping in one of them to call the police waited until he was with his attorney (and was sober) to report it. Did you know that Mary Jo was found leaning over the back of the car seat? That means there was a pocket of air in the car and even though she couldn’t get out of it, she was alive & moved her head up to the roof to try to breath — if he had stopped at one of those houses he passed by she could have been saved.
    F*ck Ted Kennedy — I don’t care about all the “good” he’s done since — he still needs to pay the piper on that one. But instead, most “left” blogs ban the mention of Chappaquiddick. How he even manages to get elected to the Senate after that still amazes me.

  199. what a loser you are Paul — if you weren’t such a homophobic misogynist I’d feel sorry for you.

  200. Wow! But, I agree.

  201. I am still here angie. I am enjoying this.

    Yes, Jackie married Ari for his money and he did have a lot more money than JFK, who was filthy rich. But after a year or two, Jackie was still really trying to make it work but Ari was becoming abusive to her and her children, and he had a woman that he saw all the time on the side named Maria Callas. The only times Jackie ever really seemed to get closely involved with a man for love was with RFK and sweet Mr. Templeston. And she married neither. She seemed to see marriage as a general tool for financial gain, (LOVE me some Jackie), though she really did love JFK and Ari in her way.

    Yah, Seriously, if Teddy had actually gotten some balls and done the right thing and endorsed Hillary, he might have been redeemed in my eyes. It was one of the things that made me angry about the endorsement. He had some balls, let me tell you.
    And the Press infuriated me even more, emulating the Kennedy’s and the endorsment at the time while trashing Bill and Hillary. I told my Auntie that it upset me that Jackie wasn’t still alive. She would have endorsed Hillary and then some. I bet Hillary would have won then, no problem. And Jackie would have a lot to say about MO posing as her.
    And Camelot would have finally been gone, and beautiful Avalon, the land of Apples, would have finally returned the the mists to obscure it in History.

  202. Yeah, no kidding. The blogs were always insinuating that Laura Bush deliberately ran over her boyfriend., but you know, what’s a dead woman (or hell, a whole bushel of them) compared to airline deregulation?

  203. Well LI, I hear that Caroline, with those strong Kennedy brains being passed down, endorsed BO because her underage kids thought he looked good on the poster.

  204. Politico.com Breaking News:

    Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano (D) has been chosen to be secretary of the Department of Homeland Security for President-elect Obama, Democratic officials said.

    For more information…http://www.politico.com

  205. lillte isis — I’m LMAO at your description of the greatest diva of all time — “a woman that he saw all the time on the side named Maria Callas” LOL!!
    She & Ari had a long-term affair & he threw her over to marry Jackie — it devastated Callas — but she couldn’t stay away from him — he was the love of her life & he should have married her. He married Jackie as much for the “glamor” that came with her as she married him for his money — when both people have ulterior motives like that, the marriage is doomed.

  206. angienc,

    glad it’s nothing serious

    just got back from my hobble around the block and I feel a lot better for it. found a cane at the dollar store and that helps if I can take the weight off the foot.

    I never knew jackie had a thing with RFK

  207. Angie: exactly. It astounds me that people play down Chapp so much, like it wasn’t even a big issue or something. It infuriates ,me to tears. And I think the only reason he ever got elected was name recognition. He was an alchoholic (still is, I think) and he failed at Harvard for plagairism, which is nearly impossible.
    It’s like I said before. I think it was really just name recognition and the whole Kennedy Myth that earned him his seat.
    What kills me even more, is that the Clintons supposedly saved his seat and his ass when he was being challenged by that slimey snake, Mitt Romney.
    I think there is a certain age where people just love the Kennedy’s because of the myth. A certain generation, per say.

  208. oh yeah, Jackie of the soft voice was a sexual dynamo!

  209. Little Isis — exactly — as I always say (rather crudely) Teddy owes his entire career to the tragedies that befell his two brothers.

    He also destroyed the life of his first wife Joan — she was driven to alcohol & madness by his mental abuse & affairs.

  210. Maybe the Kennedys are miffed that they are waning and the Clintons are rising. Hillary made an amazing tour.

  211. Jackie always seemed so proper and white glove.

    did myiq find out about his cat? He’s very quiet all of a sudden.

  212. Fran — I think you’ve hit the nail on the head — the Kennedy’s don’t want another name to supersede their in the Dem. party.

  213. Seriously: I knew why Caroline endorsed BO. It was about her father, not him or the country. She wanted the glamorous “Camelot” back.

    Angie: Yes, Jackie had an awful marriage with Ari and even after they are married he still kept seeing poor Maria all of the time. Also, the K men were furious with her for remarrying in the first place, because they wanted her to stay their honorary “widow” for Jack. Poor Jackie. She had a hard life.

    I will say that JFK junior was turning out so well, much more so than his prior generation, and it was awful that he died. I think he would have had a legitimate career in Politics, despite “The Hunk Flunks” (lots of amazingly smart people have failed their Bar Exams the first few times), and he was so cute. It was awful when he died.

  214. Plus, you know Teddy is livid that the “hick from Hope, AK” got elected President & he didn’t.

    Nijma — earlier today myiq posted that Foo Foo (the kiity) was $375 better — I took that to mean she is ok.

  215. LI–Caroline, like BO, needs to work out her father issues in therapy. Politics is not psychotherapy!!! LOL

    Molly Ivins had a book with a bunch of columns and one of tehm was about how some powerful Democrat in DC had a son in law or some male relative working with him despite teh fact the he had a rap sheet for attacking women, because you know, kids make “youthful mistakes.” Boggles the mind.

  216. Little Isis — yeah, they wanted her to be the honorary widow, but they also kept her on a very tight leash financially — I’m glad she didn’t stay and play poor widow — she did enough for that family (and granted for her own children too) by putting up with JFK’s affairs & constructing that Camelot bs.

    I agree with about John Jr. too — everything you would expect someone with his advantages to be — I credit Jackie with that — she was a good mother.
    As far as the bar exam goes — look, I think that after you just spent the last 3 years of your life in law school, you should be able to pass it the first time — the most anyone should be given to pass it is twice.

  217. CWaltz
    What railroad does your husband work for?
    I started at Conrail then when they had to get out of passenger business I worked for New Jersey Transit and then I retired from Amtrak.
    Now I work two nights a week for Metrolink.
    It is a different way of life then most people isn’t it.



  218. helenk — I think CWaltz left a while ago.

  219. Angie: Poor Joan. She was gorgeous too, and really shy. Jackie loved her. Destroying her life is another sin of Ted’s that he has never felt the need to atone or apologize for.
    And Fran, you are exactly right. The Kennedy’s were upset because Hillary would have washed away Camelot to the Mists and the Isle of Apples would have returned in it’s splendor.
    I think the Kennedy’s seriously need to get over themselves. Despite BO claiming he was the new generation politician, I find it ironic that he modeled his entire person (and Michelle’s wardrobe) after JFK and Jackie O.
    In the end it was the complete reverse. Hillary was more a new generation candidate and they knew it. Having a girly President that would be getting health care reform and an affair with Evan Bayh in the White House instead of nothing and an affair with Marylin Monroe in the White House would have been too much for them. The Clintons were replacing them as the better half and they knew it.

  220. LI–yeah, I went with my mom’s friend to teh JKF library gift shop last week so she could get stuff about MLK to show her students, and right on the gift shop TV they had a video that was saying “Welll, yeah, Ted, let’s face it, he’s not bright, he owes his entire career to name recognition and connections….” LOL I was laughing so hard and making snarky asides, and she was embarassed, but c’mon, even his own brother’s library has to be honest. 😉

  221. Yep, Little Isis — Hillary was the real new generation candidate — RFK Jr. and most of the younger generation Kennedys (with the notable exception of Caroline) supported her, not B0 — the msm never really saw fit to mention that though, did they? F*cking F*ckers.

  222. Jackie was happy in the end because of sweet Mr. Templeston. She did raise her children very well, and I can forgive Caroline for her father issues, but not for endorsing BO. She should have known better. As I said, the K men need to get over themselves.

    And Seriously, you are right, the Kennedy wing was always infuriated that those lowly, good-natured, morally aware, working class champion, underprivilaged commoners: the Clintons, won the White House and managed to implement all of those great progressive policies. I think there is a certain mysoginistic sect of the Democratic Party that is really practically worse than the Republicans. Even when I was a Dem Loyalist, I felt that way.

  223. Seriously, Little Isis, Fran — I’m turning in. Good night.

    Night everyone else who might be here.

    myiq — if you show up, please note that I have a sultry southern voice — now, imagine that whispering in your ear: bon soir, mon amour

  224. Night angie.

    Yeah LI, I have heard a bunch of times that liberal and leftist guys are worse than right wing guys, because the liberal and leftist guys try to dress up their disgusting behavior and attitudes with some kind of moral righteousness gloss. Same with the classism. They’re not classist, they just hate those toothless hillbillies because they’re defective, ya know.

  225. Angie: from your lips to Goddess’s ears. They were all a bunch of f*ckers. I hate the MSM with the burning passion of a thousand flaming suns. They were so negligent, and now they have wittingly given us another GWB.

    Seriously: Fascinating that even the JFK library says that. Hey, why don’t I change my last name to Kennedy, and run for office on nothing but smooth talk. How much do you want to bet I’d win? Wait, no. Never mind, I’d need a penis.

  226. Night Angie!!!

  227. I have a Kennedy/Johnson T that I can use to promote your campaign. You should change your name to Kennedy Johnson for maximum t-shirt effectiveness, though.

  228. night angienc.

    Yes, the Kennedy’s were terrible with women, but those were different times. All of that was hidden at the time and in those days the media kept secrets. Divorce was just unheard of, it would have ruined their careers. The other alternative was to keep quiet.

    Is anyone following the French president and his wild love life?

  229. I am signing off. Thanks to all.

  230. night

    I saw his wife was on Letterman, did he dump a pervious wife and marry her?

  231. Nijma: People in France don’t care about their politicians personal lives. In America, back then, the press didn’t report on those things with the Kennedy’s, because they were having sex with the K men too, lol.

    Seriously: Hmmm, what should my platform be?

  232. Night Fran!!!

  233. How about “I’m a true Democrat, I’ll always defer to the boys”?

  234. Seriously, on November 20th, 2008 at 1:16 am Said:

    How about “I’m a true Democrat, I’ll always defer to the boys”?
    This is the year of the Penis and we know it!”
    Edge is spot on, on this point. 😦

  235. Sigh…
    So right Woman Voter. Love you, by the way!!!

  236. Isn’t that every year?

  237. Hi littleisis 🙂

  238. You don’t love me? *sighs* I had a big fight with my bf earlier and now the internet people don’t love me….

  239. Seriously, you are correct, that is why they estimate that this ‘Democratic’ fiasco has set back women years. Progressive, NOT! 😦

  240. Seriously, what is this: I had a big fight with my bf ?

    Grannies love every one, especially ‘seriously’ 🙂

  241. Aw, Seriously, you KNOW I love you!!! It is not in question. And your bf probably loves you too. He would have to be crazzzy too.

  242. It’s really depressing, woman voter. I’ll never look at Dems the same way again now that I know what they really think of us. It all just seems futile, I don’t know where we go from here.

  243. Is that ‘boy friend’?

  244. I mean “crazy not to” Sorry, was distracted by bert reynolds on the golden girls.

  245. I love you too, LI. I didn’t want to scare you by gushing before–but it’s sooo nice to see you!!!!!!

    Yeah, he’s just…anal, makes a big deal out of every little thing, gets exhausting.

  246. Have you seen that pic of Bert reynolds they show on Game Show Nework? He looks crazily like Marlon Brando.

    Which golden Girl are you?

  247. Well, I was reading tonight about principles and doing the right thing and now listening to Ralph Nader and my thoughts are as follows. I think that we really believed in the ideals of the Democratic principles and that is why we didn’t fall in line. Some are just now figuring it out and others voted but were not informed as the most recent video shows.

    It all goes back to education and the need for improvement and the EXPRESS need of REAL JOURNALISTS/PRESS in this her country of ours.

  248. Cécilia apparently left French president Sarkozy for another lover. Sarkozy has now married supermodel Carla Bruni, some say rather too quickly, but is she the spitting image of the previous wife, and does he still carry a torch for her?

  249. I would be Sophia or her daughter! Sophia was the best one by my recollection. She really could tell a story…life is like that…’sharing’.

  250. Wait, what, littleisis, the K men were bi and doing the media????

  251. Seriously: Oh GODS!!! An anal one huh? Anal people aggravate the hell out of me. I mean, I am a neat freak but I don’t think I would ever be able to work with someone anal, for certain reasons.

    However, if it’s worth it, why not try to make it work with the guy, eh?

  252. Nijma,

    does he still carry a torch for her?
    I would say an OPEN FLAME!

  253. “I think that we really believed in the ideals of the Democratic principles and that is why we didn’t fall in line”

    I agree, but the Obama/Dean axis are now going to take over top to bottom and they have no principles and no ethics. It was going to be hard taking the party back if he lost, now it’s going to be one hell of an uphill climb. And teh rules are different. Even if Obama loses in 4 years, that doesn’t menat his people are going to go away quietly like defeated factions usually do.

  254. we “really believed in the ideals of the Democratic principles”?

    Bullhockey. We believed in our own self interest and didn’t see it reflected in the party. And still don’t. Where’s the women in this administration?

  255. Sophia was amazing, but I would so be Blanche. I personify Blanche, though I’m a Midwestern girl. I know that as I get older… I am so going to be just like Blanche, particularly with my love life. The girls in my family are cray sexaholics. My sister is a prime example.

    Nijma: Lol, the K men had sex with everything that breathed, but no, they boinked the few girl reporters that floated around back then trying to report on Jackie’s White House Nursery.

  256. Seriously, I think it can be done if we work hard.

    Nijma: Under the bus, with the rest of the country.

  257. I think I’m Dorothy.

    Good for Cecelia, you never hear about French women being the dumpers.

    LI–I love many anal people, but it’s like when the analness starts affecting everybody else that it’s a prblem. I mean, if you have to put things at 90 degress as you walk across the room, no harm, no foul. But when everything becomes unnecessary drama, I’m too tired to deal. lol

  258. Who in their right mind would leave a French president? There is something else going on here. Of course Cecelia did leave her husband for him, and Carla left her boyfriend (s) for him too. Ah, the life of a supermodel.

  259. Seriously: Lol. I grew up with anal people and I was never like that. I am like, you know, a free spirit.

    Omg, Dorothy thinks Blanche slept with Stan.

  260. Nijma,

    “Bullhockey. We believed in our own self interest and didn’t see it reflected in the party. And still don’t. Where’s the women in this administration?”

    No, I would say all the years of volunteering and all the money given were for me because I believed in the Democratic principles, it was not self interest for me. The shock for me has been, that while I was helping, I didn’t see that women’s interests were being neglected until it was too late… My heart was broken when they wouldn’t count Senator Hillary Clinton’s votes. On May 31st 2008, I cried along with many other women that had traveled to D.C. I mean I really cried…in fact I am still in mourning.

  261. Boyfriends can be such a pain, sometimes I think they just don’t get it intentionally.

  262. Woman Voter:

    Oh Gods, do not remind me of that day. That was the worst day.
    Don’t mention it again, I beg of you.

  263. Not that it’s bad to be for own self-interest, but we also believe in a lo of other things that don’t necessarily affect us directly that are also going under the bus at the same time.

  264. New thread up!

  265. littleisis, on November 20th, 2008 at 1:39 am Said:

    Sophia was amazing, but I would so be Blanche.
    Do you remember Maude (sp), or is that before your time? Maude was the ‘FEMINIST’ for me, to the T! Loved her…

  266. littleisis, on November 20th, 2008 at 1:46 am Said:

    Woman Voter:

    Oh Gods, do not remind me of that day. That was the worst day.
    Don’t mention it again, I beg of you.

  267. angienc, on November 19th, 2008 at 9:50 pm Said:

    Actually — the economy is great for me — I’ve filed at least one bankruptcy petition a day this month. Yep, that’s 19 petitions so far, and I have clients coming in every week day between now & the day before Thanksgiving to sign & file. (Previously, I filed about 10 petitions a month — and we are a well respected/busy bankruptcy firm where I am).

    I’m catching up here hopefully but you cracked me up with this one angie! Sorta like the undertaker: “business is good, but it’s rough on the families who are the survivors.”

  268. I was in DC too, but I knew it was a done deal. Hillary was the only one carrying our issues, and I knew I had to demonstrate for those issues to be taken seriously.

    The Clintons will be a force for a long time, so I’m not sad about Hillary.

    Seems like women are always doing for someone else, but I’m old enough to say it’s my turn, my life matters too. And peo[ple care about their daughters.

    Not everyone can just get a man to depend on financially.

    But what’s with all this stuff about Washington and affairs? Is is impossible to say no to someone powerful?

  269. Although, to be honest I think I may only think I’m Dorothy because in those “Size 12 is Not fat” mysteries, everybody thinks they’re Dorothy.

    “I am like, you know, a free spirit.”

    Oh, I know. 🙂 You should have seminars to teach people how to be anal yet awesome. My problem is basically, everybody I know is extremely high strung and my motto is “Let’s just chill and not make a big deal.” Which I’m sure annoys them too and probably causes them stress, but oy.

    Well, it’s not like he’s King. Do they live in a palace or anything?

  270. Nijma,
    ‘affairs? ‘ do tell, on the top thread. All ears…

  271. I disagree on the self-interest part.

    I think it was primarily our interest in and support for Clinton that made us see what was happening — that the DNC et al really don’t like women, were perfectly fine with stealing votes and negating what are supposed to be democratic processes, and were working overtime to produce the perfect American Idol candidate who would protect The Village’s interests while scr*wing the rest of us over.

    I long ago realized that the Democratic Party, especially the DNC and establishment Dems, had no real interest in promoting women (and certainly not feminism) except to the extent it won them support. This year was fundamentally different, since they chose to turn the switch from ‘Neglectful’ to ‘Active Misogyny’.

    Had I not supported Clinton, I may not have seen what was going on. Had Clinton not run, I admit I may have brushed over some of the more obvious bullying to get a Democrat in office. But I would have been wrong. Clinton was the catalyst for my anger.

    My self-interest in fact was largely with the Obama camp. Only if the definition of self-interest includes wanting everyone to be better off was it really self interest (which is pretty much an oxymoron).

  272. Fredter, like I said yesterday, my financial plan is to make bets with stupid Obots that Obama is going to hose them. I’ve already made bank on Lieberman, you’ll all be working for me by the time this is over.

  273. Helenk

    Hubby works freight service, Norfolk Southern. the pay is great but they sure do make ytou work for it. Tonight he made $320. He got that for working 12 hours(the max FRA allows)and having to wait for 2 more hours for them to send a cab out to train to get him back to home terminal. his day started at 530 am when they called (he has 2 hour call)and ended at 930 this evening.

  274. Woman Voter the “affairs” were a reference to littleisis at 1:39. I have no idea how Washington works.

    I’m going upstairs; myiq is awake and has a new thread.

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