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Friday Late Night: Howard Dean and his Ludicrous Lies


[Image courtesy of the one and only SM from Tampa.]

Howard Dean was on the NPR program “Talk of the Nation” on Thursday afternoon. What he had to say was both fascinating and revealing. I hope you will all listen to the entire interview. It is only about 16 minutes long. Here are the parts I found most striking.

Question: How much credit do you claim for what happened [Obama’s win]?

Dean: Well, we claim some. It helps to have an extraordinary candidate….Well whoever is alive now is going to be able to say that 2008 was the most important election of their lifetime no matter how many elections they go through.

Wait a minute. So no matter how many elections a person lives through, from now on this will always be the most important election? Even if a woman is elected President? Based on the treatment that both Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin experienced this year when they ran for President and Vice President respectively, I’d have to say that a woman would clearly have a much harder time getting elected President than any man, regardless of ethnicity or skin color. I’d say if a woman overcame what happened this year and became President sometime in the next 40 years, that would be pretty darn historic and unforgettable. Let’s go further: what if the woman who finally managed to break the glass ceiling were Latino, Asian, or African American? Wouldn’t that be pretty important? What if a gay person were to be elected President someday? That would be pretty amazing and unlikely, wouldn’t it? I think Howard Dean needs a bigger imagination.

Dean: They [Obama campaign] had the best team that I’ve ever seen run a campaign on the Democratic side….There were no leaks, there was no drama, people got along, there was extraordinary discipline. So [laughs derisively] when you have that for a campaign, it makes a big difference.

No leaks? No drama? Is he serious? What about the campaign memo that listed all of the Clinton’s “racist” behavior? What about the leak of the “bitter, clinging” audio and then video? And there was drama aplenty every time anyone dared to ask for the tiniest bit of information about Obama’s background. He was shocked, shocked! when Hillary dared to ask about Tony Rezko. And when George Stephanopolous brought up Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers….OMG! It was high tragedy for Barack. Being confronted about Ayers was so painful for him that he was forced to give Hillary the finger and brush her off his shoulders and shoes in public in order to deal with the agony of it all.

This is the part of the interview that interested me most:

Dean: The first calculation we made was that…the road to the White House leads through the West. We didn’t know we were going to have a candidate like Barack Obama who could win in Florida and Ohio. So we decided we would find a way to win without Florida and Ohio; and the solution was that Nevada, Arizona–we didn’t know we were gonna have Senator McCain either, so Arizona was on the table–New Mexico, Colorado…Montana. If we could win those states, then we wouldn’t have to win Florida and Ohio.

Please. I just don’t buy this. Howard Dean and the rest of the DNC knew perfectly well that Hillary Clinton was going to be running in 2008. They knew she could carry Florida and most likely Ohio. If she were a possible nominee in their minds, they wouldn’t have necessarily had to use a Western strategy. Instead they would have expected to win West Virginia, Arkansas, and perhaps Kentucky and Tennesee. In fact, they deliberately invalidated the votes of Florida and Michigan Democrats in order to hobble Hillary’s campaign and give Obama a better chance to win. Furthermore, we know now that Dean turned over the apparatus of Democracy for America to Obama and provided staff and techniques for the Obama camp trainings. Of course the NPR interviewer never asked about any of that.

In answer to callers’ questions, Dean shared the following opinions:

Dean: President-elect Obama, his campaign believes in empowering people. That’s what their campaign was all about. That’s what we believe in at the DNC….First of all, they [Obama campaign] have pretty much controlled the workers of the DNC since the day he became the nominee, in June sometime. I have confidence in these folks. I’ve worked side by side with them….”

But why was Obama put in charge of the DNC workers in June (the coup happened on May 31, didn’t it?) But Hillary only suspended her campaign; she didn’t concede. Why was Obama allowed to move the entire DNC to Chicago and pull staff and money out of state organizations when he could still have lost to Hillary at the Convention if Dean and his minions hadn’t intimidated the superdelegates into choosing Obama? Even after all that, Hillary might still have won an honest roll call vote.

Dean: One of the things that is remarkable about President-elect Obama is that he is a “new generation” candidate. He really is. He’s 47 years old, and the “new generation” really cuts off at 35. But he thinks like one of these new generation folks.

In other words, Obama is an immature, inexperienced man who thinks like someone 12-20 years his junior? Uh huh. Forgive me if I don’t see that as a strong qualification to be President.

Dean: And what they say, among other things, is let’s unite the country and focus on the things that we can work together on and not keep focusing on the things we disagree on. And one of the byproducts of that, I believe, is that the placement of people on the political spectrum and the verbiage that goes with it is gonna become obsolete. I don’t think that most young people think of themselves as conservatives or liberals or centrists…Evangelicals, for example, under 35–here’s their top three issues: 1) poverty, 2) climate change, and 3) Darfur. Well…are those liberal issues or conservative issues? I don’t think you’d wanna say young Evangelical Christians are liberals….

So I think this talk of centrism and conservatism and where you are and liberalism and all that stuff–I think that’s obsolete with the new generation. I think they’re issue focused, and I think they’re caring focused, and I think they’re unity focused. And I don’t think they’re particularly partisan….It turns out they voted 66% with the Democrats in the last election, but I think that’s because our message resonates…our message of inclusion, working together in unity resonates so much better with them than the divisive messages you saw on the other side.

This mealymouthed “unity” message was Obama’s all along. If the DNC were really neutral, wouldn’t they have just let the candidates try to sell their various messages rather than making sure the DNC echoed Obama throughout the primaries?

I guess when Dean refers to “the new generation,” he is talking about Generation Y, AKA the Millennials. I don’t know if he is correct that these younger voters don’t care about ideology, but I do know that they didn’t make up a large proportion of the votes cast for the Democratic candidate this year. According to Pollster.com, first-time voters made up the same proportion of voters as in 2004–11%. There really is no way to know if Millennials will continue to vote Democratic–especially if they don’t vote on ideas and values (ideology), but just on specific issues, as Dean claims.

When the interviewer drew a comparison between Obama and Joe Lieberman and claimed that Obama is very liberal, while Lieberman is a centrist, Dean replied:

Dean: Joe really is a centrist….He’s also a polarizing figure. His rhetoric was very polarizing. So here you have a centrist moderate who’s a polarizing figure. Now whether Barack is a liberal or not I’ll leave up to the pundits…But he is a unifier. He’s not a polarizing figure at all. No matter where you think he is on the political spectrum, Barack Obama is not a polarizing figure. So here you have a so-called centrist who is a polarizing figure; and then you have a so-called liberal who is not a polarizing figure. That’s the difference between the old politics and the new politics…we’re gonna see a lot more of that. I think you’re gonna find it impossible to say where Barack Obama belongs on the political spectrum; and people my age will be be very upset about it. People his age will think it’s great.

Dean doesn’t make it clear whether in talking about “people his age” he means those approaching 50 or those under 35 whom Obama supposedly “thinks like.” Anyway, maybe it’s just me, but I couldn’t help seeing the discussion of Lieberman being “a polarizing figure” as actually making the comparison that was often made during the primaries: Hillary = polarizing; Barack = unifying.

I really think that Dean has confirmed in this section of the interview that Obama was the DNC’s hand-picked candidate all along. They apparently wanted a candidate who was so vague that no one could ever tell where he stood on anything. And we couldn’t tell! And now Dean seems to be telling us than when he becomes President, we will not know where Obama stands either.

Next a caller says all she heard 18 mos ago was “Hillary Hillary Hillary.” But she is so happy that it ended up great “with a unifying President-elect. She wants to know if the DNC pushing a candidate from the beginning.

Dean: We never push a candidate ever. I was the referee. Around last May when the campaign was at it’s hottest point–I think all the Hillary people thought I was with Obama, and all the Obama people thought I was with Hillary. It’s our job to stay neutral…We wanna give everyone a chance…. There has to be one place in the Party where everyone feels that they will be treated fairly. And that is meant to be the Democratic National Committee….We work behind the scenes to make sure everyone gets a fair shake.

Ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahaha!!!!! I guess that’s why Howard never told the media to stop screaming at Hillary to get out of the race. I suppose that’s why Howard started in February telling superdelegates they had to choose a candidate–right now!!

Finally a caller from Indiana talks about the Florida and Michigan primaries. He says the Republicans moved the dates and DNC said their votes wouldn’t count. What if the Republicans sabotage the process again? Will the DNC “fall prey to their little scheme again and they’ll be laughing all the time.”

Dean: We actually didn’t say we won’t count the votes. We said we’d like you to adopt a process within the rules. And then the states didn’t want to do that and there was a big flap about it which ultimately got resolved [….] If you change the rules in the middle of the game, it’s not fair to one of the candidates. You can’t do that.

I see. I have to say, that is one of the sleaziest, slimiest, most dishonest and even ludicrous lying lies I’ve ever seen. In fact, I found this entire interview to be incredibly dishonest.

I’d love to hear other Conflucians react to Dean’s clownish comments. Apparently he thinks no one was paying attention to the actual tactics that the Obama campaign used or the shocking way that the DNC enabled Obama’s nomination by stealing votes from Florida and Michigan voters and from the voters of all the states that Hillary Clinton carried.

Sorry, Howard. We pumas were paying attention.

UPDATE: In response to all the snide comments about this post being a complete downer, here is some material to aid the mocking of Howard Dean.

308 Responses

  1. BostonBoomer, Can a well-written post trigger a heart attack? Or plurisy? Hearing Dean lie about the events of last spring is making me sick.

  2. a lie is a lie no matter how well crafted

  3. I’m sorry, Katiebird. I would never want to give you a heart attack or a relapse of plurisy. I do hope you are kidding.

  4. BB — great post — but just reading Dean’s word is making the vein in my temple throb — no way can I make it through 16 minutes of that fork-tongued bastard.

  5. BAJ,

    We don’t discuss the birth certificate or other eligibility controversies here. I’m going to have to delete your comment. Please feel free to comment on my post though.

  6. so lord haha dean speaks and lies again.
    his political career should be over soon I hope.
    backtrack seems to have discarded him when he picked r emanuel .

    When we get everything going with the PUMA Party I want a cup that says
    “don’t piss off a puma”



  7. I was hoping we could all have fun mocking Howard Dean as the clownish creepy liar that he is. I didn’t mean to give people heart attacks or migraines. Sorry….

  8. I think he really admitted in this interview that Obama was the chosen candidate all along. He said it in so many words anyway.

  9. Howard Dean is a schmoo. He’ so clueless, he doesn’t even know where he stands on the issues. He said he was a “centrist” who was the “farthest left” of the candidates running in 2004, so he wanted to represent the “Democratic wing of the Democratic party.” He also told Joe Trippi he didn’t expect his campaign for president to go very far:
    “This. I never thought it would go this far. I was going to raise my profile, raise health care as an issue, shake up the Democratic Party. Help change the country. But I never thought this would happen. Don’t you understand?” He turns and faces me. “I never thought I could actually win. I wanted to . . . but I never really thought it could happen.”
    He said the same thing about the fifty state strategy in 06:
    “I didn’t expect much to come of this strategy for four or even six years,” Dean told TIME.
    He’s a schmoo.

  10. Well, I do have this burning sensation around my lungs….

    But, it’s not your fault BB — it’s This whole Fuçk’n Election season. I’m sick of it.

  11. Good God that makes me so mad, I guess I should go to bed. See ya all tomorrow, I am not sure why I still cling to my DNC and elections. I must be old and bitter.

  12. He’s still using the Bush playbook. Obama isn’t a polarizing figure–because I say so! He’s a uniter, not a divider.

  13. BB: thanks for doing the dirty work. I don’t think I could stand listening for 15 minutes.

  14. I think we need the “your peepee is so small…..” jokes in THIS thread as well!

  15. Seriously, that was my first thought when I read ‘unifier’.

  16. “Dean’s clownish comments”

    Don’t you like clowns? Don’t we make ya laugh?

    I’m offended by all this anti-clownism

  17. Katiebird,

    I hope you aren’t getting sick. Maybe you should get checked out before it gets bad?

  18. Scrubs,

    It’s fine with me, but can you fill me in on the joke? I missed a lot of the last thread while writing.

  19. Well….I’ve never been all that fond of clowns, but you are an exception, myiq2xu.

  20. myiq — we’re anti-clownites!

  21. bb — exactly — there is only ONE myiq!

  22. Bb – Thanks for this. I can’t tolerate Dean one more second! This is still such a nightmare! I keep thinking I will wake up and at least see that people have come to realize wha they’ve done! It just goes on with no good reason!

  23. Seriously,

    Dean claimed that he never watches cable TV. That would explain his idiotic lack of insight into the campaign. I think we need a rule that the DNC chairman has to pay attention to the coverage of the election.

  24. night honora!

  25. scrubs, I didn’t hear one laugh from you on the last thread!

    And now I’m going to retire. I’m with katie. I can’t stand the sickness anymore. My humour is gone. Rage and tears. That’s it for now.

  26. Let’s review what makes Lieberman a polarizing figure–he attacks members of his own party and votes with the Republicans a lot. Let’s review what makes Obama so unifying, he attacks members of his own party, including rumor mongering about our only two term President since FDR, crosses over into personal and inappropriate territory, gives people the finger, and votes with the Republicans a lot. Lieberman sabotages other Democrats, Obama keeps all the money for himself and refuses to lift one finger to help them

  27. night joanie!! thanks for the laughs!! {{{hugs}}}

  28. “Dean claimed that he never watches cable TV. That would explain his idiotic lack of insight into the campaign. I think we need a rule that the DNC chairman has to pay attention to the coverage of the election.”

    Wow–that’s almost too perfect. “The Obama Party–ignorance is bliss. Doing the job you’re being paid for is hard.”

  29. angie, I take kisses from you. If you ever want to make some vixen trouble, Seattle’s a nice place to visit–er, next summer 🙂

  30. joanie – I just got here, read the last thread, noticed a new one, and came to comment.

    BUT, I really WAS laughing my ass off reading them!

  31. joanie — {{{kisses}}}

  32. Heh, heh, I can’t resist: bb doesn’t know the pp jokes.

  33. Good night Joaniebone,

    I’m sorry you won’t stick around and “poison” my thread with your jokes. I wish you would stay. You don’t have to discuss the post at all.

  34. ack, I think “the scream” may have been the last honest thing this guy said in public. damn, Dean’s a moron – how did he ever get elected? to be fair, he may be a decent doctor, but he has never impressed me otherwise.

    also, for the record, wasn’t James Buchanan a gay president? that’s what I’ve always believed, even as a child. admittedly, I had an open and liberal upbringing 🙂

  35. I guess I need to go back and read the whole thread. I promise to do so before I nod out for the night.

  36. and BB, thanks for an interesting and well-researched post!

  37. Boomer — I love the picture!

  38. There are several posts around the blogosphere about research that shows we have had 6 part AA presidents before Obama. I’ll see if I can find a link. One of them was Abe Lincoln.

  39. SM created that picture!! She gave it to me a long time ago, and I finally got a chance to use it.

  40. While shopping in Target, the workers were yelling “Obama Oba,ma..Yea we paint whole house black now” So not in mood to listen Howard Dean or DNC’s lies.

  41. huh???

  42. Just teasin’ bb.

    I can’t even remember what the main topic of the thread was anymore but somehow the jokes got started, “you have such a small pee pee, you need a magnifying glass and tweezers to find it” and so forth.

  43. Uh oh….myiq2xu is picketing….He’s carrying a sign saying “Clowns are people too!”

  44. okay BB. One for the road (and because I love you):

    Yo pee-pee is so small, John Bobbit asked you to model his underwear line.

  45. sod — we need to get SM to do a picture for us of a bus being driven by B0 & our avatars underneath it for the Effing View.

  46. OK, I updated the post in response to all the snide comments. I’m looking for more video material and will post as I locate anything to aid the mocking of Howard Dean.

  47. sod — “If you cut a clown, does he not bleed?!?!”

  48. Joaniebone,

    LOL! Are those for trolls or Conflucians?

  49. Bostonboomer – this is first rate. Just first rate. Thank you for writing it.

  50. Gosh…I should apologize or something…NOT

  51. bb — that was in response to the guy with the tiny pee pee wearing the Sarah Palin is a C*nt picture in the last thread: NOTE: that is his cell phone in his pocket, because his pee pee is too small to see.

  52. Well, it got started when we were talking about sexist jerks and those that would actually buy a Hillary nutcracker.

    And then the gloves came off.

  53. angie — LOL!!

  54. “If you cut a clown, does he not bleed?!?!”

    Does he bleed big red noses? Cuz that’d be kind of cool. Not as cool as balloon animals.

  55. bb — for the record — just because I can’t abide hearing those lying lies from that lying liars mouth doesn’t mean I don’t think this is a great post — because it is a great post!

  56. Oh my head!

    I’ve got brown bottle botulism and it’s not even morning yet.

  57. well…NEXT.

  58. yes, angie has it right. The male parts were so tiny, that they were virtually invisible.

    Only SOD chimed in with me on the “YO pee-pee” call to action.

  59. joanie — I think he actually had a cameltoe

  60. Angie — it’s a great start eh?

  61. BB, ALL of your posts are powerful!

  62. “joanie — I think he actually had a cameltoe”

    Oh. MY. GAWD!

  63. I think it depends on the clown .. and screamin Coward Dean needs to go back to clown school or get stuffed…

    into one of those little miniature cars …

  64. The last election was a lot more important than this election. It gave a pass to Bush’s conduct, allowed him to continue, and he put Roberts and Alito on the SC.

    All those 24-year olds who sat out the last election only to jump on a media circus this time make me ill. And where was Oprah last time? Silent.

    McCain’s a moderate. We have a Dem House and Senate – this election was not the most important election of the century.

  65. my abusive ex married the woman he cheated with while we were married. Her name is Kamala. I not-so-affectionately call her Kamel-toe. It’s even programmed into my cel that way.

  66. Swan…one modification…

    into THE TRUNK OF one of those little miniature cars …

  67. joanie that’s dreadful! sorry if I dredged up anything!

  68. Even though the clearly lying Dean is departing, the DNC must get the message: we are not to be toyed with. I think the best way to make this clear ASAP is to make sure Senator Clinton’s debt is retired before the debt Dean’s DNC ran up is. So, I’ve just put up my second post on the subject, in which I try to make clear that retiring Sen.Clinton’s debt is less about Senator Clinton than it is about wiping that smirk off Howard Dean’s – and that gloating tone out his voice.


  69. Ok — since the genteel crowd is gone I’m going to share a story about my friend — she liked this guy for a while but they were always just friends & finally one night she “pounced”& he did not live up to expectations as he was very tiny. After the deed was done, he said to her “Wow, that was unexpected!” And she thought to herself “Yeah, no wonder you left your dick at home.” LOL
    true story – that is exactly how she described it to me.

  70. New video material added to update!

  71. I must rest now. And I confess, I’m a bit squeamish – er, genteel – so I shall leave you all to your carousing.

  72. SOD — perfect start — this is a great system that should be used again — whatever the “theme” — you do a post — like a group project.

  73. Ha! Boomer!! I love the dramatic prairie dog!

  74. No SOD! I smile everytime I see that in my cel’s address book. No worries there! I just take comfort in the fact that some people have earned being open-game.

  75. night Heidi — sorry!

  76. Sorry Heidi (blush).

  77. joanie!! that’s hilarious!

  78. Angie,

    LOL! I shouldn’t admit this, but I had an experience like that once. And the guy actually thought it was huge. I guess he never looked around in the locker room.

    OK, now I’m going back into my shell….

  79. Heidi Li,

    Thanks so much for the wonderful compliment. I am not worthy. Seriously. I admire you so much.

    Sorry about the dirty story…

  80. Ok, I am literally falling asleep but this is for bostonboomer: you should be very proud of this post and people should be paying attention to it. It is very important to remember how we got into this ridiculous state of affairs and Howard Dean is/was a huge part of the problem. I’m putting a link to this post right up on Potpourri.

    Now, seriously, Conflucian friends – good night.

  81. bb — LMAO — amazing what egos some men can have, isn’t it?

  82. I like that idea, Angie.

  83. Angie — that’s a true story! 🙂

  84. No apologies necessary friends – have fun telling dirty stories!

  85. BB: I don’t know where you found the Howie scream set to techno… I couldn’t stop laughing!

    Oh, did I mention I found Jubilale at the store? Not that it would have anything to do with laughing at the scream.

  86. Thanks, Heidi Li. It’s a shame that no one in the media will ask real questions of these frauds.

  87. What is Jubilale? Is that an alcoholic beverage? I haven’t paid attention to anything except the election for the past two years.

  88. well… I cannot believe I posted something about getting stufffed right after someone posted about a camel toe
    so you saved me with the trunk comment and I THANK YOU
    this thread is going down hill fast … as well it should considering the clown that inspired it 😉
    Boomer its great .. this guy deserves a coprolith in the feces hall of fame

    but …….. have you all ever heard the camel toe song ???

    its bad .. ( google it )


  90. sod — LOL!

    imo, size isn’t everything but it does matter.

  91. Yes Boomer — this is an excellent post everyone should read and share.

  92. Well, IMHO, size matters a lot. But I’m a sexist pig! LOL!

  93. Jubilale is beer from Oregon. It’s kind of like egg nog, only beer.

  94. Well, Daniel Craig as James Bond said in the last Bond movie (Casino Royal):

    “You should see what I can do with my finger”

    I swooned.

  95. joanie!!! LOL!

  96. JJ,

    That sounds awful. Fortunately I no longer drink. But I hope you enjoy it.

  97. I can’t wait for Myiq2xu’s “Tinfoil Hat Tuesday” post.

  98. oh joanie — I remember that line — it was GOOD!!

  99. Oh, sorry – it is just seasonal like egg nog.

  100. sod — Tuesday can’t come fast enough — I can’t wait to read that one!

  101. YUM YUM. It’s actually a national holiday–today is the premiere of the new Daniel Craig Bond movie.

  102. Angie, you have mail.

    I am re-watching Casino Royal

  103. Didn’t i say I was going to bed? Probably a good time to slink off for sweet dreams.

    It has been fun! Thank you for this wonderful company.

    Are you feeling better now, Angie?

  104. Don’t forget the marches on Saturday in support of the LBGT community.

  105. afrocity, I have worn out that dvd.


  106. nite Joanie!

  107. Angienc and Afrocity,

    Who is on the Confluence View round table?

  108. joanie — yes I am! And those pee pee jokes played a big part in that. Thank you very much!
    How funny is it that afrocity was watching Casino Royal!
    I’m off to read my mail.

  109. Woman Voter — so far, it is me, afrocity & SOD.

  110. Dear Hearts and Gentle People

    I have to sleep , but thanks to you all, I will have dirty dreams .. so you know I am grateful 😉

    Love and Hugs …

  111. I have all 22 movies!!!!

  112. I think we need PUMA TV shows…

    So, what is the name of the Show?

  113. We’ll be reporting soon!

  114. goodnight swan! Joanie

  115. Swannie — here’s hoping no one in your dreams has ever been the subject of a joke. 🙂

  116. afrocity!! we’ve missed you!!

  117. Well, you three are sure beautiful women and have plenty to say and can do a fine job.

  118. I can’t see my post at Hiedi’s place and don’t know if it took or if it went into the cyber dryer…like the socks. I think dryers come with little gnomes that steal them and then sell them.

  119. Oh, then SM needs to help you out and do the bus…for the full effect:
    “The Effing View from Under the Bus” 😮

  120. SOD,

    I am just downloading music and watching casino royale.
    I am going to see the new Bond tomorrow!!!

  121. night swanie!!

    night joanie (again) {{{kisses}}}

  122. WV — don’t all posts at Heidi’s go directly to moderation until Heidi releases them?

  123. Joseph Cannon has a post up about Obama commemorative plates. Really kitschy.

  124. Thanks angienc, I thought it was me…or my eyesight with the letters in the box.

    What is a commemorative place?

  125. Plates. It was a typo. Plates, like from the Bradford mint? Very low rent.

  126. Howard Dean: I wouldn’t piss on him out of concern for my urine.

  127. WV — I think Heidi does that because she has gotten so many nasty comments since she started the “Principles Before Party” & she can’t be there enough to catch all of them right away.

  128. I don’t want anything with Obama the magic Africans face on it.

  129. Oh, OK.
    So what is the Under the bus view going to discuss? When is the blogtalk show scheduled?

  130. jvsp — omg! I’ve hear I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire, but never that! LMAO

  131. jvsp,


  132. Phew, finally made it home. I was trying to catch you guys between sick patients!

    Now, where were we?

  133. I didn’t get the last joke? Age…

    OK, time for tea and bed for me. Rest that ankle angienc…and smile, it helps the mind, and your pets will feel better too. G’nite

  134. glad to amuse…. LOL! I just can’t take anymore of the news, the blather, etc. It’s beyond me how you all can carry on. I feel miserable. Where did my country go….????

  135. Heh, heh. I just watched the additional Howard Dean vids that bb put up. Good stuff.

  136. OMG — not only cannot I not believe they are making those plates, I cannot believe there is a market for them!

  137. Night SOD! Sweet dreams.

  138. night sod! did we pick a time for Sunday?

  139. BB: I couldn’t stop laughing at Joe’s plate discussion!


  140. Sorry, I just can’t bring myself to go look at the plates, or the coins, or any frigggin’ thing to do with him.

  141. night WV!

  142. Oh, but Angie, think of Christmas gifts!

  143. Nite, Woman Voter and SOD! Sleep well.

  144. jj,

    That’s great idea. We should all send them to Obots. How about sending them to Markos M and Josh Marshall?

  145. Many Roads are leading to PUMA’s going on even if Hillary Clinton decides to be secretary of state. Much too much revisionist history will be created, and go unchallenged, without PUMA’s there every step of the way to remind anyone who cares what really happened.


  146. Well, Daniel Craig as James Bond said in the last Bond movie (Casino Royal):
    “You should see what I can do with my finger”
    I swooned.

    Jesus Almighty. I just got home from the new movie.

    Seriously, I think my shirt is damp from mopping up drool. And, um…

    Wear diapers. I’m just sayin’.

    (ducks, runs!)

  147. I sure as hell hope Hillary doesn’t bail out his sorry ass by taking the SOS job.

    For the good of the country, she probably will, but I certainly hate to see this happen.

  148. BB: that would cost money. I was mostly thinking about my Republican in-laws.

    Besides, I’m sure Josh and Markos have the full set already.

  149. katiebird — if anyone gives me one of those plates for a christmas present I’m breaking it over their head!

  150. Ditto, Eleanor (regarding Hillary, that is. Not the diaper part.)

  151. my last comment was for jjm, not kb! sorry!

  152. Are there rumors about her actually taking the gig? I’m looking at DailyPUMA now in another window….

  153. Oh, I don’t know Angie, it could be fun.

    You could use it to feed the dog/cat. You could set out pickled herring on it for the holidays. Let’s see, you could use it under planters. I’m sure there would be 100’s of great things you could do with one of them plates!

  154. You’re probably right, jj. Markos probably has them displayed on the wall in his dining room.

  155. Oh, if you have relatives with false teeth…

  156. I wouldn’t want to inflict that on my pet.

  157. Oh, Hillary please pass. tell Obama to go to hell. You too McCain.

  158. Afrocity,

    I doubt if he’ll actually ask her. I think he’s just trying to get her supporters hopes up so they can be dashed again.

  159. Markos probably has 8-12 of them for the full setting. Oh, what a lovely Thanksgiving table that would be, eh?

  160. Eleanor — I think it is so much bs just like the VP rumor. Richardson is talking to B0 this weekend.

  161. OK, I need to get to bed. Please don’t say mean stuff about me while I’m gone.

  162. jjm — the only good uses for those plats is cracking heads & going no. 2.

  163. my dog isn’t that discerning. I’m not entirely sure the cat would eat off it though.

  164. I’m glad you’re feeling better, Angie. Be sure to good care of your ankle. I hope you iced it.

  165. night bb!!

  166. oh — I did ice it — thanks bb!

  167. Goodnight BB!

  168. Hmmmm. You know, this probably isn’t an appropriate image, but I’m imagining this thread’s clown spinning a bunch of B0 plates up on poles…

  169. Well, I’m sure Howie is spinning something on long poles.

  170. Eleanor — appropriate — that is the perfect description of this entire election (the clown is Dean, Donna B & the msm though)

  171. It’s amazing how much traction he’s getting out of this phony offer, though. People are comparing him to lincoln, asking his rivals to be part of the Cabinet. What a statesman! LMAO

  172. Seriously — good point! In fact, kind of funny how this phony offer came up after the story came out about his needing more money, huh?

  173. Seriously, I haven’t gotten the impression that BO wants to work with Hillary. I’m hoping this is a bad rumor – it certainly wouldn’t benefit her.

  174. Good night guys!

  175. I better head to bed. I’ll dream of clowns spinning plates for sure!

  176. nite afrocity!

  177. Good night to those leaving.

    How are the rest of the insomniacs doing?

  178. Yeah, he likes he float ridiculous rumors at opportune times.

  179. Scrubs, are you ready for tonight’s song? This comes from deep in the vaults….. hee hee hee

  180. Although, just because we DON’T want this (Hillary as SoS), Barack will probably actually make the offer. Seems like he gives us everything we don’t want.

  181. Hit me, jvsp!

  182. She’d have to be out of her mind to take it.

  183. Ok, here is the link: http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/9326 the song you want is by Jimmy Haskell titled “California Fairy Tale” from his album California 99. Just give the link to the left a punch and enjoy. Unfortunately I cannot find a place where you out thar in internet land can give the whole album a listen, but here is one way you can get a listen to one of the more entertaining tracks from this distopian album that details what happens to poor America as she falls apart. …if this selection should fail, I blame the Scotch. 🙂

  184. night afrocity & jjm!

  185. angie, what’s up with your ankle? How will you be able to run when the red coats are coming???

  186. okay, I had to load a Real player before viewing. Now I’m off to watch it, jvsp.

    Yeah, what happened to your ankle? I have only been here intermittently the past few days because of work so apologize if you already told others.

    And where is myiq?

  187. It’s a song, scrubs…. so if you don’t see anything… well, neither did I… heh heh….

  188. It’s pretty clear from the articles where the Kennedy clan tells Obama they are passing the torch to him that there never was a contest. Hillary was used from the get go. the timing of Kennedy’s announcement of endorsement for Obama tells you that – the Kennedy involvement explains the media’s behavior far more than the Chicago machine did.

    All Obama had to do was skate and not mess up too bad – they would cover and obfuscate any error, they would attack and deride anyone who stood in the way.

    He didn’t win this. They won it for him. And they’ll be doing all the work, too.

    Kinda scary. Tragic. the duping of a nation.

    What’s even more amazing, after all the Clinton hype, is seeing how much they didn’t like her. Or Bill.

    …In November 2006, Craig sat next to George Stevens, an old friend of the Robert Kennedy clan, at another Obama speech. Stevens leaned over to Craig and said, “What do you think of this guy for president? I haven’t heard anybody like this since Bobby Kennedy.” Craig instantly replied, “Sign me up.” Stevens and Craig approached Obama coming out of the speech and asked, “What are you doing in 2008?” Obama gave them a big grin and said, “Oh, man, it wasn’t that good.” But before long Craig and Stevens were raising money for Obama’s political-action committee, the Hope Fund. Obama was amused by the devotion of the two old Kennedy hands. After a while, every time he saw the two men he would say, “Here come the Kool-Aid boys.”…

    …At Coretta Scott King’s funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, “The torch is being passed to you.” “A chill went up my spine,” Obama told an aide.

    from the Newsweek article

  189. jvsp — I had a horrible day today. I woke up this morning to news that my best friend’s grandmother died — she was crying, I was crying — and the day went down hill from there. I was super busy at work & everybody was mean to me! Then when I was walking in the parking lot to go home from work, I tripped on the uneven blacktop, fell, scrapped the hell out of my right hand & knee & twisted my left ankle!! I was supposed to go out tonight, but, on top of everything else, it is raining — and I had no motivation to get all dressed up to go out in the rain & be miserable. So, I stayed home (and on here) instead. Everyone has cheered me up though (and the mint chocolate chip ice cream didn’t hurt either!).

  190. scrubs — myiq made a brief appearance today — but he really hasn’t been here since his “Myiq2xu flirts with angienc” post yesterday.

  191. Awww, angie. Here’s a big old Aussie hug for you: {{{{{{{angie in the middle}}}}}}}

  192. thanks scrubs!!


  193. Angie, damn, I missed that post. Is he upset?

    jvsp – I got to the music but listened for about 5 minutes before realizing the timer on the bottom says it goes for almost 3 hours! So far it sounded good but I don’t have that much time right now! You have anything shorter.

  194. Dean is a f*cking liar. Excuse me, a screaming f*cking liar. Thanks for the great post, BB. So nice to know there’s still some Sanity Out There, in however small pockets of the nation.

  195. Okay, there’s a boy here now…

  196. angie – is the Shania Twain vid at Klownhouse related to that?

    Kat5 – go ahead, let it all out. It’ll do you good. Did you partake of the vent thread last week? That did me a world of good.

  197. AAAAARRRGH! What a giant fucking load of zebra shit. I hope that man is crushed under an avalanche scalding sewage. I hope he suffers from explosive diarrhea on national television on his birthday. That man is a necrotic pustule on the anus of a demented howler monkey, and I hope that his private parts become infected and gangrenous. That lying, scheming, not-terribly-bright, hideous, fatuous WEASEL!

  198. Angie said:

    “Wow, that was unexpected!” And she thought to herself “Yeah, no wonder you left your dick at home.” LOL
    true story – that is exactly how she described it to me.

    But Angie, did he comment about that big hair sticking out on one of her nipples? 😯

  199. scrubs — here is the post (read the caption on the picture,– swoon!)


    I hope he isn’t upset — I miss him & am sad he isn’t here (but I’ve been sad all day, so don’t read too much into that).

  200. Hey Fredster!

    Howzit going with the prop 8 protest stuff? I never hear anything down here. If you listened to the Aussie news these days, you would think that America had fixed all it’s problems with the election of BO. Ick.

  201. Fredster — she doesn’t have any hair sticking out of her nipples!!

  202. angie, what happened with myiq? Did he find the lost kitty? Was the lost one the sick one?

  203. scrubs — if you mean is he upset with me for some reason & that video is a response to me — that he isn’t impressed with me — I think it is. I hope I am wrong about that though.

  204. mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, mint choco chip ice cream!!! (Breyers is my fave!)

    So sorry to hear it was not a good day… My condolences to both you and friend 😦

    Mean to you? Everybody? Why? You’re a delightful chatter box!

    I wish you a speedy convalescence with your ankle! The Red Coats are coming I tell you, and they’re wearing blue this time ’round!!! Don’t shoot till you see the whites of their eyes!!!!

  205. Ewwww, Sandra, that was really special – I think I’m gonna write some of those down. Zebra shit just kind of nails it.

  206. Fredster — she doesn’t have any hair sticking out of her nipples!!

    but how do we know? For that matter how do we know he had a teenie weenie?

  207. I also left out that he’s a fermented pile of lutefisk vomit. ARGH. I hate him a lot right now.

  208. Fredster — Foo Foo has been mia for 2 days now.

  209. Fredster — because I know her and she is the most well-groomed girl I know (and I’m pretty well-groomed myself, so I should know from well-groomed). Plus, she never would have lied about it (and stopped seeing him) if that wasn’t the case.

  210. Hmmmm, angie – I read that whole thread. Pretty confusing.

  211. scrubs: don’t have any idea except for what’s on the teevee. We need to explain Alabama to you. There wouldn’t be a demonstration here from even the most out queer!

  212. Sandra needs a vent thread as well. Let it out, girl.

  213. scrubs, it is just one song… I think if you go down to the one song I mention and tap the link in the row at the far right you will hear the song (it’s just one song from a whole radio show). …..anyway, they can’t all be winners…. *sigh*

  214. Kat5 — I was thinking the same thing myself about Sandra post — my fav. part is the “demented howler monkey”

  215. Sorry, Fredster. I thought you were one of the west coast PUMAs because you are always here so late. What’s YOUR excuse? Another insomniac?

  216. Yeah, but angie she might have forgotten to pluck. 😉

    Is Foo Foo the sick one?

  217. scrubs — it is more then that one thread — but I can’t really explain it all here.

  218. angie, sorry you had a rough day. (:

  219. Two of his cats are sick — Foo Foo is the girl who is sick (the other sick kitty is a boy)

  220. I don’t know – “explosive diarrhea on his birthday on television” is pretty good.

    Would love to see THAT facial expression – along with Michelle’s as she gets a whiff of if.

  221. scrubs: Yep you got it! Am not working right now (not by choice) and am a parental primary care-giver. By the time I have the Momster put to bed, then I can sorta kick back.

  222. thanks Seriously.

  223. Okay, angie – send it to me telepathically! 🙂

    That’s very kind of you, Fredster. You sound like a good man.

  224. I wish I could! Of course, I could just be full of myself & it isn’t about me at all (pray, pray pray). I don’t know what I will do with myiq! I only come here for him.

  225. Thanks Scrubs I appreciate it…it’s a situation where there’s simply no one else to assist.

  226. No, you come here for all the intelligent conversation and the “one big happy family” feeling.

    myiq is icing on the cake.

    I miss him too but I’m not hot for him. Just absolutely luuuuurve his sense of humor.

  227. trivia about Shania — she believes that sex is ONLY for procreation — so when she & her husband Jeff decided no more kids, they quit having sex — they are getting divorced now (he left her for another woman).

  228. Fredster, I’ve known others in your position who still walked away. Be proud of yourself.

    Does she wake through the night and that’s why you have insomnia?

  229. My excitement tomorrow (now later today) is to go to a quilting show. There having a local one and there are supposed to be some nice quilts that are hand-made. But I almost cracked up when my friend wrote back to me and she sent this:

    think you will like it…the ladies there are so sweet-they remind me of my mother, very old-fashioned, just very “motherly” ladies……..having said all that,,this year there will prob be no food, no quilts & a bunch of bitches at the show 🙂 !!!!! 🙂

  230. scrubs — I’m hot for myiq because of his sense of humor — I really do hope he isn’t upset with me.
    I will not be here at all tomorrow, so if you are here, make sure you tell him that he has to be nice to me & like me again.

  231. I did NOT know that, angie. Maybe there’s a chance for me with her after all – could be she’s gay and that’s why she feels that way about sex with a man!

    🙂 I can hope, can’t I?

  232. Fredster, a lady I work with down here is big into quilting and she took 6 weeks last year and went all over the Southern States because the quilting there is famous the world over. Have fun with the bitches.

    Angie – I always say nice things about you because you ARE nice (even when you are all fuck, fuck, fuck about everything!)

  233. scrubs: Naw, once she’s asleep that’s pretty much it. I just need the “unwinding” time. However, can’t do it 2nite since I have to be up to go for the BIG SHOW at the Mt. Olive community center.

    I know one thing: I’m just bringing a couple hundred dollars and NO credit/debit cards. If they motherly-ladies don’t have anything in that range I won’t be buying.

  234. scrubs — you could be right — when I saw that interview (about 10 years ago) it struck me that maybe she was gay & didn’t realize it/want to admit it.

  235. mmmm, I may have to go back over to Klownhouse and rewatch that video. She’s hawt!

  236. scrubs — don’t just say nice things about me to him — tell him he has to be nice to me (and like me again & take that stupid Shania diss about me down from Klownhaus).
    If I think of anything else, I’ll let you know! 🙂

  237. myiq was mean to you?

  238. scrubs: well as long as they have a nice plate lunch for sale too it’ll be okay with the quilts! All the quilts we had went underwater in Katrina into that funky mess. Some were hand downs in the family, others made for us. So gotta start over. Actually I want my mom to have one so when it’s cool (not cold mine you) there are no arguments with the thermostat. She’ll be layered in! 😀

    Who are you all talking about that might be a gay woman?

  239. My guess would be that myiq is either reading this along with us or will do so soon.

    (Although the last comment I remember him posting implied imbibing even though he denied it. Hmmmm)

  240. Fredster – Shania Twain. From myiq’s site. Do you think she is gay? If so, how can I find her?

  241. Seriously — no, myiq was not mean to me — I think I was rude to him (unintentional, but nonetheless, I may have been).

  242. scrubs — I bet he comes on as soon as I get off.

  243. scrubs, I’m not sure if she is or not. I haven’t seen that many of her vids. Have you googled her to see if there’s any gossip?

  244. scrubs — I bet he comes on as soon as I get off.

    but how will you be able to get off….. oh never mind! 😛

  245. Angie – that could be taken two ways (as soon as I get off) – be careful, he may show up sooner with talk like that! 🙂

    Fredster, I could only dream…..but Google is a good idea.

  246. Great gay minds think alike!

  247. Fredster — I don’t know of any “gay” rumors about Shania (other then the one we are starting here) but I saw an interview with her & she said that sex was ONLY for procreation & that she & her husband were done having children. So, I’m saying she is either gay or frigid.
    btw — she & the husband are divorcing.

  248. scrubs: try checking OUT magazine and the Advocate’s website. Might be something there.

    I see you and I were thinking the same about angie 😉

  249. LOL — I didn’t meant that like it came out!

  250. angie, in that case I’m thinking frigid or bible-thumper. I wonder what her husband thought of that idea? Well, you said they are divorcing…

  251. angienc, on November 15th, 2008 at 2:51 am Said:

    LOL — I didn’t meant that like it came out!

    Freudian slip, eh?

  252. I bet her husband spent a lot of time in the shower!

  253. I’m sure you weren’t rude to him. You’re never rude, you’re charming. 😉

  254. On the gay note, I was just over at Dorothy Surrenders (she is a lesbian who loved Hillary and only jumped on the BO bandwagon in a lukewarm way) and she said that Keith Olbermann did a special comment thingy about prop 8.

    Can I just say “FUCK YOU” to these Obama supporters who don’t see what others like them did with gay marriage? Are they absolutely FUCKING BLIND?

  255. Maybe she was kidding

  256. Oh well, gotta go. Time to read a bit of Sookie and call it a night .

    Have to get ready for the quilting show and the mean old ladies that won’t serve a plate lunch this year! LOL!

    Nite all.

  257. nIte Fredster!

  258. Nite Fredster. Have a blast. Buy some quilts.

    (Not going to ask what Sookie is.)

  259. Keith can go pound sand up his ass. Like it’s going to affect him. Arrrrgghhhh!!

  260. Seriously — she wasn’t kidding & I remember it distinctly because my friend who was watching it with me & I agreed how it was so hypocritcal it was of her to advance such a “sexed up” image when she felt like that.

  261. night Fredster!

  262. scrubs: Sookie Stackhouse on HBO show Trueblood. Very lighth reading and I love the show.

    Angie likes the theme song from the show. She sings it to myiq all the time! 😛

  263. Yeah, that’s kind of weird. I mean–check with your husband before you get married because it’s probably not going to end well. 🙂

  264. We don’t get HBO down here, unfortunately. I’ll Google that, though, ’cause it sounds interesting.

  265. Seriously – who would actually TELL their husband-to-be that she only wanted sex for procreation? And what HUSBAND would agree to that?

    Isn’t that grounds for annulment?

  266. scrubs — this is the theme song “Bad Things”

    I have it as my ring tone on my cell now.

  267. Seriously
    “..it’s probably not going to end well. ”

    When it comes to marrying a happy-clappy.

  268. scrubs — according to the interview she & her husband (who is the producer of her songs — Mutt Lange) agree that sex is for procreation. That was then — now he left her for another woman. I bet the new gal doesn’t think sex is only for procreation.

  269. Found the trailer for Trueblood on youtube – that looks pretty good. Was that Concrete Blonde I heard in the background? From the creators of Six Feet Under so it must be pretty good.

  270. Well, scrubs, I’d say it’s better to be honest about something like that rather than spring it on him after the fact. And if they both agreed, I wonder why everyone said he was so bad for her and it would never last?

  271. Oh, man, angie – I really LIKE that!

    (I wanna do bad things with you, Shania!) See how I morphed the topics? Pretty good, huh?

  272. scrubs — yep, I love that song & every time my cell rings now, I think of myiq! LOL

  273. Agree with you, Seriously. If they both knew up-front that it was going to be that way then there shouldn’t be any grumbling about it later.

    I bet he started wanting sex on a regular basis, though.

    Remember last week (angie, you were asleep, I think), when we were talking like this and RD showed up? It was like 3 in the morning and she posted a comment. I put a zip on my mouth QUICLKY!

  274. oops, that was a wierd spelling of Quickly. Been a long week at work for me.

  275. Clowns now make me think of myiq. I never USED to be afraid of them……

  276. well — I never used to find clowns sexy! LOL

  277. Ok gang — I’m going to bed now.
    Good night scrubs & Seriously.
    Good night everyone else.
    myiq — bon soir mon amour!

  278. *shrugs* Well, people change their minds. You can’t hold someone to a contract they made a long time ago when they wrre different people.

  279. Goodnight, angie. Will miss you tomorrow. Hope you are having fun whatever it is you are doing.

  280. Oh yeah, this election was sooooo important i didn’t even bother to vote. in fact my vow is to not vote again until i can vote for a woman president or vp. yeah dean-you and your billion dollar vote fraud wunderkind did such a great job you chased many lifelong female dems away from the party.

    which reminds me-does anyone know if women pac or any of the other groups that sprouted to support Senator Clinton and other female candidates are still active. the economy overwhelmed any protests we put forth this election, but two years, and then 4 are just around the corner. women will never get to the top if we continue to support people who will take advantage of our willigness to be team players. we need to organize and selectively vote against dems.

  281. Although, I just googled and it seems teh husband was teh ringleader in all this, he belongs to a mystical religion and it’s his belief. So if he’s been feeding her this line all tehse years and then cheats on her–sucks to be her.

    Night angie

  282. Hillary could have never energized this generation. Millienials… we are people that aren’t caught up with the BS from the past. Too young for vietnam war divisions, too young for the “i’m going to get mine because there may be no tomorrow” narcissism brought on by the cold war. But old enough to watch 3000 people die on TV and watch a government do more for a dead woman named terri schiavo then they ever did for living katrina victims

    No, we aren’t ideological, we came/are coming of age during a time where ideology has no real meaning. Where liberals vote for wars without end and conservatives ask to nationalize banks.

    The 90’s are a nostalgic time for us, but it is in the failures of 90’s era politicians to deal with millennium problems that causes us to seek new faces.

    We don’t care how the mainstream media treats people because we lost faith in that a long time ago. We are a generation that gets our information from satirical news shows and the internet.

    We are a generation that is idealistic, that wants to hope for a better tomorrow, and that spurns tradition in seeking this better world.

    Barack was the only candidate that could embody any of these things. No fucking way hillary patriot act clinton was ever going to dominate the youth vote.

  283. “Barack was the only candidate that could embody any of these things. No fucking way hillary patriot act clinton was ever going to dominate the youth vote.”

    The youth vote!?!? LOL!

    From what you have described the “youth” vote is that which is cast by the intellectually impoverished with nary an understanding of what they are doing.

    Ideology has no meaning…. LOL!

    The fact that this generation is in need of a figure, a demagogue to motivate them demonstrates how little faith this generation has in itself. Never looking in, and only out. Swayed by sentiment and never reason, the youth of today is a mob of hydrocephalics begging for redemption in the age a thrasymachus.

    Idealism at the cost of pragmatism…. LOL! Consequentialism run amuck.

  284. New thread up if you’re still awake

  285. Aw c’mon, jvsp–you don’t think frat boy jackoffs who got off when Bozo the Clown gave the b—- the finger don’t have good judgment? lol Hlary could never look as seriously AWESOME as Barack, ask any 7 year old. The 7 year olds also have a liuttle rouble with teh machines–Al Franken, like OMG is he running against my Savior? Leave it blank!

  286. I grew up in Hawaii — seeing men of color elected to office was no big deal. THEY were still men — THAT is what I noticed. Women of color still were discriminated against because of their gender. SEXISM is much more ingrained in the American culture then race.

    All I see is yet another inadequate male who is going to need a lot of “help” pushed ahead of highly qualified and capable women. And that would include women of color.

    Just one more male in a long line of males — and this male will mess up just as badly as the males before him have messed up.

    Women’s issues will still be considered far down the list and mostly ignored. The majority of guys just do not understand nor to they comprehend what it means to see yet another inadequate male being promoted over qualified women.

    Dean is an ignorant a**. I’d like to see his name confined to the dust bin of history.

  287. “No, we are a politically engaged generation that was at the forefront of the biggest ground game for a campaign ever.”

    Ever? So much for history…

    “But no other politician knew what to do with it. It took 7 years for someone to harness that power in the right way.”

    Do elaborate on this “right way”. By what means have you come to that conclusion?

    “To tell people they can be part of something bigger than themselves. Rather than using our idealism to send my generation to die in the desert of iraq.”

    ROTFL! Do read what you candidate is proposing and you will find that mandatory service is round the corner for tht express reason of sparing the military. The word draft comes to mind…..

    Hint: check out Hilbert and Ackerman’s text Mathematical Logic and then try applying that new found edification to subjects political. Until then, speak only when you have have been addressed.

  288. After 8 years of gwb, any viable democratic candidate should have had the deal closed from the get go. Obama was spending 8 to 1 and still incapable of closing the deal. In such a situation he was nothing more than an abject failure. LOL!

  289. I offer no counter example because your claim is preposterous given the scope of the “ever” you talked on to your claim.

    I am not a republican, so your rebuttal is neither here nor there unless you want to demonstrate how what I stated is a right wingnut talking point.

  290. So are you saying that Obama had secured enough of a lead to by mid september that his win was a foregone conclusion, i.e. closed the deal? Based on what evidence? And if you you should like to cite polls, please cite which ones and their methodology.

  291. Yeah, JV, how dare you stay stuff that also gets said by the enemy! Don’t you know that in this post-modernist age of politically engaged and idealistic frat boys truth is achieved by consensus?

  292. The margin by which Obama led was pathetic given the about amount of money with which he was outspending McCain, AND considering GWB’s popularity.

    As for the counter-example, you seem oblivious to the idea of scope.

    You stated: “No, we are a politically engaged generation that was at the forefront of the biggest ground game for a campaign ever.”

    Ever? That leaves all of history from which I can pull a counter-example. Your move would be to narrow the scope. Do you really believe that you “politically” engaged generation” was at the forefront of tht biggest ground game for a campaign [EVER]”?

    As for republican talking points, the “source’ does not matter. What is of concern is whether or not they are true. Further, my source was NOT a republican source, i.e. you have yet to show that I am using rep. talking points. Thus far you have only shown that reps seem to be sharing the same pts that those of us on the left have arrived at sans rep influence.

  293. Wrong, Derek. DEMOCRACY wins are achieved by consensus. Caucus wins are won with fraud and intimidation. Or they were this year.

    Leave it to the wikipedia generation to make shit up and then actually believe it.

    Note to Derek: fanboyish obsessiveness is not the same thing as political engagement, and you can’t be nostalgic for the 90s because you were FIVE then. Or maybe you are. Maybe you miss big fancy superheroes and get pissy when mommy wants you to do your homework instead of playing out back with your underoos on over your pants.

  294. Sandra S.
    Yeah, JV, how dare you stay stuff that also gets said by the enemy! Don’t you know that in this post-modernist age of politically engaged and idealistic frat boys truth is achieved by consensus?

    LOL!!! The truth is only that which has been confirmed by the great factchecker in the sky, the epistemic brilliance of the Chicago intellectual elite who have in one fell swoop made obsolete all that research centered on the Gettier problem obsolete. All genuflect before the arbiters of truth!!!!!! ROTFL

  295. “He got more of the popular vote of any democrat since 1964. I don’t know how anyone that realistically looks at politics can call that pathetic.”

    Unless they, you know, put it in the CURRENT historical context, in which GWB had approval ratings in the single-digits.

    I believe Caligula had comparable numbers of followers.

  296. “That leaves all of history from which I can pull a counter-example.”
    that would require you to “pull a counter example” though.

    So as it stands, Dereck, answers in the affirmative that his “politically” engaged generation” was at the forefront of tht biggest ground game for a campaign [EVER]“.

    [counter-example not needed given the aforementioned preposterous position]

    T R E S A M U S A N T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    “He got more of the popular vote of any democrat since 1964. I don’t know how anyone that realistically looks at politics can call that pathetic.”

    700 million spent and what were the margins? I’m not looking at politics per se. rather, I am looking at the reasoning.

  297. Thats why the PUMAS weren’t worth a damn.

    Why really are you here? Why are you so needy? you won’t change anything other than to further convince me that higher education of which you may or may not be a part is seriously lacking. You are swayed by a demagogue, by sentiment and not by reason. It’s rather obvious given your inability to identify the major thrusts of our objections/arguments and to present counter-arguments that appeal to grounds that might have sway with us your interlocutors.

    If you really had the aim of persuading people people of your views, you would first seek to find that to which you might appeal in persuading us. Yet, prior to that, you might even bother to establish whether or not there is even reason to bother trying.

    The fact is that we do not care and you know we do not care. So why are you so needy in this regard? For me you offer more confirmation that critical thinking skills in America are nonexistent, which national test scores in mathematics bare out rather conclusively.

    I hope you go and spend some time addressing your needs, your inadequacies, and setting about remedying them.

  298. Dereck, how was GWB’s approval rating compared to that of the Democratic congress?

  299. dereck
    You still miss the arguments being presented. It is as if you are incapable of answering explicit questions, identifying implicit points, and miserably fail to recognize the fatuity of your “rejoinders”. It’s almost amusing at best.

    You need to finish your education, maybe transfer out of whatever educational abattoir you inhabit and spend a little time in the library familiarizing yourself with thought, valid arguments, etc.

    At this point you are merely binary code to me, a broken automaton incapable of returning any real novel output.

    Seriously, step back, get a glass of water, take a walk, find someone with whom you can talk. Faith in a holy cause is due to a large extent to a lost faith in oneself.” -E. Hoffer (roughly)..

    As for the counter example, if you can’t think of one on your own, I will leave you to enjoy your ignorance intact.

  300. Hey, guys, you know that Bitch video in the post below? A couple of days after it went viral in the Hillarysphere, Peter Daou called me to ask where it came from. The campaign was watching. But we already suspected that from The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pantsuit.

  301. Derek: Your description fits me to a T. I was too young for Vietnam, hippies, or any other babyboomer thing. I am OBAMA’s age. Nevertheless, he’s no spring chicken and I would really appreciate it if he wouldn’t embarrass his age demographic by pretending that he is. The fact is, I am the kind of person that Obama was *supposed* to be appealing to: suburban, well educated, creative class, latte sipping, chablis and brie, PDB and Museum donating, Wegman’s shopping snob.
    And yet, he left me completely out of his plans. Why? Because I am a woman. He has insulted my gender to the nth degree by allowing Hillary Clinton’s accomplishments go unrecognized, uncelebrated and for allowing the media to use misogynism against her. He couldn’t win on the issues so he pulled out the most ancient brutality against someone of the opposite sex and used it as a bludgeon against Hillary and Sarah. And he benefitted. A lot of really stupid women your age, not HIS age, are going to wake up in the next four years and wish they had never gotten onboard. It’s sickening. And now that he is the leader of the free world, except for those of us who have a vagina, we will hold him responsible.
    Yes, him. He is going to take the fall when all the sexist shit starts hitting the fan on a normal everyday level. Hey, if it’s OK to call Hillary Clinton a c*nt, then it’s only a short time before it shows up at a street corner or office cubicle near you. He has unleashed a beast that we just barely had under control in the public sphere and now we’re going to have re-wrestle that beast back into the bottle.
    So, take your stupid juvenile fantasy to some other blog. Of course, pretty soon, you;ll be all by yourself. Your female colleagues will be engaged in a different epic struggle that you can not possibly understand.

  302. BTW, Derek, I see that you once attended Old Dominion University. You have an email account from there but neither the student or faculty directory has you in the list. So, are you a current student or did you fail out?
    OR you are not using a valid email address for your comments. Are you simply an ODU wannabe?

  303. ODU wannabe!!!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

    Sometimes it’s a drag when I haven’t been on for a few days and I’m trying to catch up on the threads, but then a nugget like, “ODU wannabe” pops up and it makes it all worthwhile!

  304. Happily, just found this site. Glad you folks loved your dose of Dean, we left Vermont because of his nonsense. Love the visual…we called him “Ho Ho.”

  305. “Howard Dean and the rest of the DNC knew perfectly well that Hillary Clinton was going to be running in 2008. They knew she could carry Florida and most likely Ohio. If she were a possible nominee in their minds, they wouldn’t have necessarily had to use a Western strategy. Instead they would have expected to win West Virginia, Arkansas, and perhaps Kentucky and Tennessee.”



    That they were going to do EVERY THING under heaven to NEVER EVER HAVE Hillary as candidate.

    Otherwise there was NEVER ANY NEED AT ALL to think out other strategies.

  306. It would be a fortuitous day were Obama to ask Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, “Mr. Dean…What about the Abenaki?”

    I’m certain the sinking pit Mr. Dean would get in his stomach could not be hidden by his poker face.
    Civil Rights means not putting up with racism. There’s no place in a fair and decent administration for anyone who has so actively waged a campaign against such a trodden minority.

    I hope a reporter asks Obama (before he hands out jobs) if he has any idea about Dean’s historical mistreatment of these people.

    Google Abenaki Dean

  307. […] Friday Late Night: Howard Dean and his Ludicrous Lies [Image courtesy of the one and only SM from Tampa.] Howard Dean was on the NPR program “Talk of the […] […]

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