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The Way Forward: Learning From the Conservatives

What Now?

What Now?

If there’s one thing we’ve learned from this historic election, it’s that, to paraphrase George Orwell’s famous quote from Animal Farm, “All people are created equal, but some people are more equal than others.”

We found out that Hillary’s historic candidacy was not nearly as important as Obama’s historic candidacy. We found that it was all right to browbeat women into voting for Obama by threatening to take away their reproductive rights; that it was all right to perpetrate outright election fraud during the primaries; that it was all right to call any woman who dared to oppose this symbolic candidate a racist; to call her too old or too young, too smart or too stupid, too unattractive or too attractive; and just to make the salt in the wounds sting a little more, that it was all right and expected for women themselves to gleefully participate in their own humiliation.

So, congratulations, ObamaNation. The wimminz have been thrown under the bus in order to make way for the currently-favored group of disenfranchised second-class citizens, African-Americans. Um, yay?

But this type of vindictive, nasty, zero-sum approach was not just for those with scary ladyparts. Oh no, Obama voters in California had to prove they’re more important than the LGBT community as well. They had to vote “yes” on Proposition 8, which (for now) has stripped the newly-bestowed rights of same-sex couples to marry in that state. And true to form, they are blaming the victims for their own actions.

The developing meme coming from Obamanation is that gay people got what they deserved when prop 8 was passed in CA, primarily due to overwhelming support from African American supporters who also supported Obama. They are saying that if only we had done our part to help the AA community, or reached out to them, maybe they would have stood with us. That is a lie.

Yes, yes, of course. It’s all the fault of teh gayz! And it’s the fault of teh wimminz, I suppose, because no woman ever participated in the Civil Rights Movement. Golly gee whiz, if only we Vaginal Americans had reached out to the AA community…For gawd’s sake, how can anyone take this self-serving bullshit seriously?

The sad fact is that when the rights of one second-class group are promoted to the detriment of others, there is no reason to celebrate. I look at Barack Obama, and I see a person who cynically and cruelly used misogyny and homophobia to gain the most powerful office in the world. I see a person who has not been judged by the content of his character, but by the color of his skin. Indeed, the media is now admitting that Obama’s character is shrouded in mystery, and all across America, former friends and family are divided from each other by accusations of racism because they voted – or didn’t vote – for Barack Obama. I thought The One was supposed to be so unifying. How is this state of affairs called progress?

Many of us who are not part of the elite in our society have long believed that voting for a particular party would advance our rights. It is clear to me now that this strategy does not work; indeed, if I were an African-American, I would not be so sure that the election of Barack Obama will do me any good at all, since he has no record of mobilizing the community to do anything except…vote for Barack Obama.

Thus, in the future, I would like to see PUMAs become a strong voting bloc that is courted by all political parties.

How do we do this? Well, we can learn from the conservative wing of the Republican Party, which has already become such a voting bloc. After 28 years of activism, the Party cannot win without them. This year, rumor has it that conservatives are the Republican group which stayed home on Election Day, making McCain’s popular vote count several million short of Bush’s count in 2004. This may or may not be true. According to exit polls, conservatives gave 5% more of their votes to Obama than they did to John Kerry, and although they comprised the same percentage of the electorate, there were a great deal fewer of them this year – approximately 19,600,000 in 2008, vs. 21,100,000 in 2004. (Again, this is all based on exit polls. I have no idea of how else to estimate these numbers, but if anyone else does, please let me know!)

What the conservatives do to advance causes we disagree with, we PUMAs can do to advance causes we agree with. We can organize and choose candidates from any Party to make our voices heard. And if candidates want our votes, they will have to pander to us.

Whatever we ultimately decide is the way forward, we have a tremendous amount of positive and principled energy in our group. It would be a terrible waste to let it all go just because we couldn’t swing the election this time. Let’s be patient and committed, like the conservatives, and eventually, we will overcome – not just symbolically, but actually, with liberty and justice for all.

Here are some great links to get you going:

The New Agenda



Save The Internet


149 Responses

  1. All I can say is that I think my friend Huntingdonpost is right that the people who voted for Prop 8 are Obama’s Willing Executioners. Once again the Confluence has it right–shifting the blame. Even that creep Andrew Sullivan said stop blaming the Mormons. The Obots want to deflect attention away from the fact that Obama was responsible.

  2. Kathy – Nothing like using the r*ce card to distract. It’s been working like a charm for Obama so far…

  3. home for lunch hey all

  4. Hey fuzzy!!!

  5. Jeez, MadamaB, are you accusing something of being Obama and his army of bots fault? How dare you?!?! Don’t you know by now that the buck has to be passed on anything that he/they could do wrong. After all, we don’t know what they really meant.

    Just had to be a little snarky today because I am fucking sick of it. They are already suggesting a holiday in his honor. Tell me is there one god damn holiday having to do with women?

  6. TRK – A holiday?!

    I’m speechless.

  7. I want lesbian Donna Brazile’s opinion about Prop. 8.

    She needs to be put on the spot – and forced to make her opinions and intentions about it known.

    Hold lesbian Donna Brazile accountable!

  8. Yeah, Madamab, a holiday in a woman’s honor. How about national fucking Vajayjay day.

  9. DDDD – I agree – Brazile is a disgrace. How any self-respecting gay person can support Obama is a mystery to me.


    Seriously, though…Alice Paul should have had her own holiday a long time ago…

  11. Amen and Amen! The success to date is actually astounding when you think about it, and setting up a long-term bloc is critical for the future of all citizens. Who better than the Pumas!

  12. Yay Alwaysthinking! I love your enthusiasm…

  13. TRK, you said it! The man has yet to actually do anything. Shouldn’t we wait and see if he’s any good at the job he was just elected to BEFORE we even consider a holiday? There’s not one national holiday to specifically honor a woman. I’m sure some would argue that Labor Day, Vet’s Day and Memorial Day honor all genders.

  14. I watched Iron Jawed Angels this weekend.

  15. I agree. I would like to know what Brazile thinks of the passage of Prop 8, considering she threw her (gay) community under the bus when she was the “ringleader” of denying gays more representation as delegates to the Convention.

    Just as a reminder: here’s Howard Dean’s deposition, and watch minute 5:00 when he addresses Brazile’s role in this specifically:


  16. Oh yeah right gxm, except one would have to ask, just how many women were in the labor force, military, etc. when these holidays were established. Want to bet that if you asked a man about a holiday for women, he would say Valentine’s Day or maybe, if he was brave enough he would say every day is a holiday for women.

  17. So apparently once again Michelle does not get off the plane with Obama. What is she doing taking separate planes?

  18. We women are the invisible majority…we are every color, every religion, every sexuality. Time to start acting like it!!!

  19. speaking of separate planes…

    I wonder when the Vera Baker scandal will come out? month one, two, three, earlier?

  20. Of course there is assistants day and mother’s day. So, unless you are someone’s assistant or mother, you are screwed.

  21. I am tired of being invisible.

  22. The buck being passed……. Hmmmmmmm why does that particular tactic sound familiar?

    Meet the new boss, same as the old one.

    Thanks Obots for 4 more years where leadership isn’t accountable for its actions. Great. What does anyone lay the odds on that a Democratic Congress will hold him accountable? They couldn’t even do it for Bush. I am so f-in thrilled.

    Here’s how I see it going down. Lots of meetings behind closed doors where the puppetmasters(in Congress) will get Obama to issue an executive order for anything unpopular and then claim that “they” had nothing to do with it. Then they will sit back and name post offices in public.

  23. afrocity – Really?! Wow!

    It was amazing to hear the commentary on how cordial and helpful Bush was being to Obama. Can you imagine if Hillary had been elected? Bush probably would have done the biggest FU ever.

  24. Afrocity I have a lot of friends who take separate flights when traveling. They are afraid if something happens the children won’t be without at least one parent.

  25. After the election I was numb. Regulars posted about having a good cry but I was just empty inside. Until I read one of the blog posts that linked to an article about a lesbian couple and that Prop 8 will negate their marriage and finally the dam broke and I sat here at my desk bawling my eyes out.

    The impact Obama’s ascension had on the LGBT community with the Props in CA and FL, for me, underscores the hate and entitled prejudice that he embodied as a candidate. We can only hope that he has an epiphany and his presidency will take a turn for the better, but I’m not holding my breath.

  26. TRK – No kidding! (Is it not called “Secretaries’ Day” any more? It’s been too long since I was one…)

    cwaltz – That sounds exactly right.


  27. Madamab, Bush probably loves that BO won. Now Bush knows he can’t possibly go down as the worst president evah, cause Barky is gonna take that title from him.

  28. Hi Fuzzy! Enjoy your lunch break. Mine’s almost over.

  29. gxm17 – I didn’t cry till a couple of days later either. I just can’t believe this all happened the way it did. It seems like we’re in some bizarre manufactured reality.

  30. The AA community is well know for its homophobia – hence the problem with men on the “downlow”. This is apparently much more common in their community because denial is rampant due to the great stigma attached to men being gay. Don’t know about women, though. And that is a big reason they have had so much problem with HIV. Or so the Oprah show on the subject said. One man who finally admitted to himself that he is gay said that before then he had convinced himself that having sex with men was “just sex” and had nothing to do with being homosexual since he still had sex with his wife. He felt that he would be ostracized by almost all of the AA community if he came out. Very sad – for everyone.

  31. TRK, you’re right. Most folks would say Valentine’s Day or Mother’s Day. We are the invisible majority. And it’s high time we became very visible and very loud.

  32. “Many of us who are not part of the elite in our society have long believed that voting for a particular party would advance our rights. It is clear to me now that this strategy does not work…”

    We have a one-party system in this nation now. And it’s not the Republican-Democrat party.

    It is officially “un-named” but it is the


  33. TRK – Of course he loves that Obama won…all his buddies and big money donors will get a lot richer once Obama gets his hands on the Treasury…

  34. gxm: I like that gxm, I can be really loud.

  35. there was some message testing done on swing voters and the surprising discovery was that the only group of people who would not budge on supporting gay marriage were African American women – and I would imagine that has much to do with the downlow culture and HIV infection – AA women are now the fastest growing group getting HIV.

    It is sad really, that the Civil Rights issue wasn’t connected more for the AA community when it comes to gay marriage – you would think that the AA community once being told by the govt who they could and couldn’t get married to would get it.

  36. Yup, One-Party Nation. Ralph Nader was wrong in 2000, but he sure seems to be right this year.

  37. Madamab,

    For reasons not wholly understood by myself, it has historically been difficult for women to unite (Something that I first learned about in college when I took women’s studies.) Usually women tend to unite according to race, ethnicity, nationality, or beliefs (politically, religious, etc…) My question is, how can we break this way of thinking, and unite under gender? If we unite under gender then things like reproductive rights cannot be used as a weapon to divide us.

  38. Women erred in ever equating race discrimination with gender discrimination, and then joining in with ethnic/racial minorities to bash white men.

    I’m not related to any blacks (closely at least), but I’m very closely related to at least one woman. Woman would’ve done a lot better if theyd have fought for equity for our mothers, daughters, sisters and lovers. That’s an argument most men will listen to.

    Women were used by minoirties as the expendable shock troops for storming the citadel of white affluence and power. They were conned into assailing their own sons, fathers, brothers and lovers.

    Well, how did that work out.

  39. How about national fucking Vajayjay day.”

    I could really get into that.

    (I’ll go sit in the corner and STFU now)

  40. Great post, madamab!

  41. FL Voter and SN in MN –

    You make some great points.

    The thing is, voting for women because they’re women is not sexism, but we all think it is. We ladies are taught to be self-sacrificing and put our needs before those of our husbands, children and co-workers. That is part of our socialization process and is difficult to defeat.

    However, thanks to some new studies done by the U.N. and an organization called WEDO, we know that when women comprise 30% or more of a nation’s government, life starts improving dramatically for women and men within that nation. The women who are elected do not have to belong to any particular party or espouse any particular set of principles. They just have to be women.

    Thus, since voting for women has been proven to work, it is a rational strategy to advance as many women as possible for national office.

    Sexism is not in it.

  42. I don’t feel I erred in equating discrimination with discrimination. Furthermore, it isn’t bashing to state that the white male is and has been at the top of the power structure for a long time. It’s a fact. I have assailed no one

    I do not want to make my inroads on the backs of other minorities like was done this election cycle.

    I also believe you are overly optimistic in believing that men when given the emotional appeal of a parent, a sister, a daughter, a lover, a spouse. Many men believe that we are their inferior and their subordinate(we are to be subservient and submit to them), they’ll go so far as to tell you the Bible says as much.

  43. I suspect that there really are small circles of women who are united in various organizations and groups. I had a staff of mostly women for many years and they are still my friends and respected professionals.

    We just need to not let others (a la Obama’s campaign and the media) succeed in dividing us politically with red herrings, among other techniques. Not only that, of course, the same forces also tried to divide families as Madamab described.

  44. as i group i have no sympathy for those in the gay community who voted for obama. if they did their homework they would have known. willfull blindness! indivdiuals who voted for mcain or sat home, you have my profound sympathy during this hard time. i feel the same toward the aa’s who voted strictly for color of the skin. they too should have done their homework. most didn’t. there is a lot of room under the bus. we are moving out and moving on with our lives.

    And for people like brazile, you have my unending dislike and venom, mam. you deserve no less.

  45. madamab

    I really don’t care if it is sexist at this point. What we have done thus far has not worked. White men have continued to play games with issues that effect our lives with little regard to the outcome for us. When something is broke, you fix it. Now a woman may not indeed fix it because it is pretty clear from this cycle that not “all” women even get it but I have the odds that NOTHING WILL CHANGE if we continue to take the path we are taking right now.

  46. Hee…a former “friend” from Eschaton just posted two crazy rants on my personal blog. (I had to moderate my comments because of him and others.) His point was how no one cares what I say and I’m just crazy.

    Then why is he ranting and foaming at the mouth about me if I am so unimportant to him?


  47. madamab

    They figured we would settle down after this cycle was complete. I think they have another think coming.

  48. I agree, cwaltz. We can no longer be shamed into dumping all over other women in order to make ourselves or our peer group more comfortable. We have to stick together and not let anything tear us apart.

    Some of the worst misogyny I have seen has come from women, even my friends. I have got to find some way to reach them….

  49. Sadly madamab

    I think some of them may not “want” to get it. It’s so much easier to live in denial as long as you have it relatively decent yourself.

  50. I am going to try to read “And Ladies of The Club,” a book my mother gave me years ago (I think she meant it to be instructive) which I never read. In her lifetime, her work was mostly voluntary, with occasional paid work, and she had numerous women friends. My work mostly has been paid (albeit at times underpaid) and most of my volunteer work has been in professional circles rather than in civic, church, or art circles as was hers. Still, we both had long-term respected peers. (Oh, in all honesty, there were a few that did not meet our “standards!”)

  51. Madamab, you have been married a while. I can’t go out the door without being asked if I have a boyfriend or do I date anyone. When I say I haven’t dated in three years they ask what is wrong, because I am so pretty. Why is it the norm in society that if I am a woman, I must have a man. I don’t date because I haven’t met anyone who is worthy of my time. I don’t need someone to validate me.

  52. RE: “cwaltz, on November 10th, 2008 at 2:52 pm Said:


    They figured we would settle down after this cycle was complete. I think they have another think coming.”


    cwaltz, they have many many many “thinks” coming and they will not them.

    Those mean PUMAs, they’re trying to make me think!!!!!


  53. cwaltz – But but but, I thought Barack was going to take us out of our comfort zones! That’s what Michelle said, anyway.

    Maybe I can persuade them to do it for The One!

    As for us going away, they only wish.

  54. “will not like them” that should be

  55. “Then why is he ranting and foaming at the mouth about me if I am so unimportant to him?”

    I know! It’s funny. Maybe it is because they thought we would settle down and return to our knitting. They had a script all lined up and what the hell are we doing throwing in ad-libs?!

  56. Oh TRK, I remember that situation from being single. It wasn’t THAT long ago! LOL

    It is so annoying to be constantly quizzed about your personal life. It’s none of their d*mn business who you do or don’t date, and by the way, if you can’t find a guy that’s good enough for you, why do they assume it’s YOUR problem?!

  57. I’m cross-posting a comment I made on Gary’s site — I agree absolutely with what madamab said about promoting divisiveness:

    What I resent most about posts like this person’s is that it promotes a false zero sum game that only continues and exacerbates division and counterproductiveness. The formula she is pushing is my rights OR your rights, and the more I get of my rights, the less you get of yours.

    Human rights are not some sort of finite pie, where the bigger piece I grab means the smaller piece you get. Working together means people can bake as big a pie as needed. (ok my analogy is getting strained, but my point is everyone ends up better off if we concentrate on ways to cooperate in achieving human rights for all, rather than hoarding up rights).

    The zero-sum game is Obama’s game. It is what he has been exploiting all along with his homophobia and misogyny — the idea that only one group may be allowed progress and that that progress can only be achieved at the cost of progress for others — by encouraging the worst in people rather than actually asking them to do better. Oh sure, he’s always on about all the work ‘we’ll’ be doing and how it will be ‘hard’, but he never seems to get around to starting the hard work, just babbling about some future date when his supporters will have to get started (and ignore those people with the tire tracks up their backs behind you).

    One idea floating around in my head to make PUMA into a voting bloc is to expand on the already fabulous work RD and Murphy-Pumapac did on researching and recommending candidates. We need a Pumapedia — sort of a cross between Wikipedia, Congresspedia, and the sort of politician ratings sites orgs like Planned Parenthood have. So, for instance, when there’s a race coming up in my state, I could zip to the Pumapedia to find out which candidates are recommended by Pumas and why. It would also allow us to compile a lot of very important information that comes up in the various blog sites. Blogs are great for participation but not so good for when you’re trying to learn about specific people or issues.

  58. One thing that we saw Hillary do was win over groups by sheer constant direct campaigning. It seems to be how she won over the people of Arkansas and the people of New York (meeting them in small groups and one on one) and how she was able to mostly break the caricatures promoted in the early 90s. The Obama people have done much to counteract her successes with false public charges but we have seen in her an admirable model for how women can win over other women (not saying it will be easy after this year’s divisiveness, however). Most of the work really will have to begin in kindergarten. Apparently, our youngsters were not taught to respect the female gender as they were taught to respect different ethnicities.

  59. Oooh, Valhalla – a PumaPedia! I love it!

    And the original title of my post was going to be:

    “Dear Barack Obama: Civil Rights Are Not A Zero-Sum Game.”

    Great minds…:-)

  60. Why not be completely honest, we are all still under that damn bus and will be for at least four more years. Barky is not going to make it better for anyone.

    The day I resigned from his campaign, the chairperson wanted to know why I was leaving, I told her that I felt there were going to be a lot of disappointed people if he made it to the presidency. Well, he effing made it and here we are. Women are disappointed, LGBT’s are disappointed, I just wonder who is next.

  61. Valhalla — great thought about having a good, reliable source — aside from the old organizations — for evaluating candidates meeting Puma standards.

  62. I cherish the hoodie I bought from Afrocity.

    On the front, it says “I Told You So”, and the last “O” is an Obama sign.

    On the back, lovely tire tracks from that bus. Ah! I have a feeling it will never go out of style.

  63. I have plenty of Hoodies left too.

    I have a few left with the DOW average display, it comes with changeable velcro numbers and a negative sign

  64. Madamab: I agree with your overall goal. Establish and build a powerful coalition that has a set of principles that are resolute and an agenda that changes as our needs unfold and develop. Become significant enough that both parties feel a need to pander to us. I think that requires a huge amount of work. I think that group must reach out to both women and men; conservatives and liberals; it must reach out and build a new coalition that embraces a larger set of principles than one finds in either political party right now. It must be about fairness, equality, protecting voter rights, ensuring fair and open elections, working for a mass media that is required to report the news and I would like to see a movement dedicated to ending the punditry that replaces news reporting for opinions in general. What this election showed me is that we have beliefs and values that are shared by both progressives and conservatives—-not all Republicans are evil and not all Dems are good.

  65. Has Barky shaved his beard now?

    Michelle don’t seem to be spreading much love with him.

  66. Jangles – I absolutely agree. We need a lot of time and dedication to make this happen…

    Afrocity – LOL!

  67. Yes. What Valhalla wrote.

    The Puma Platform has to be clearly defined. Then any local to national issue can be screened for Puma appropriateness.

    The leadership, reviewers, researchers and participation must be across party lines. (Look how NOW behaved– condoning an all male ticket because it was Democratic. WTF?!)

    No more sexism. No more politics of division.

  68. Real Kim said “Well, he effing made it and here we are. Women are disappointed, LGBT’s are disappointed, I just wonder who is next.”

    I will venture to say AA community will be next, especially disadvantaged inner city poor. They will get nothing from this man but promo materials like posters and decals. KInd of like the JFK framed photos and holy cards that were so popular …

  69. That’s right, madazhel!

  70. Conflucians: I think another big thing we must come to grips with is that the narrative about how Obama is going to plunge in popularity blah, blah, blah is just us falling under the spell of WT (wishful thinking). It was the spell of WT that probably kept us going during this election marathon but it also probably kept us from gripping the hard reality of the Obama machine.

    Already we are seeing signals that Obama is going to try to maintain a policy course building economic solutions. See the interview with Rahm Emanuel in the WSJ week end edition. He clearly sees the LGBT issues as a distraction. His priority is getting done what The One promised; that will start with SCHIP for all children, a new deal stimulus package and a middle class tax reduction.

    Obama will probably dominate for the next 8 years and the job of every O voter is to maintain and build the victory. So what does that mean. In 2016 we are going to have another wide open election. Biden will be too old and so will HRC. We need to build the recruit and build the resumes of some outstanding women and help them emerge on the national scene. We need grass roots organization is communities across this nation.

  71. It was laughable how once it was “confirmed” that the selected prez was “in” – how not one news anchor could speculate (and, you know how they like to speculate) on what O’s plans were for his presidency. It is so sad that no one knows the “real” BHO. Sad, indeed.

  72. My impression from one of the newspapers that was referenced in an earlier post was that the call for the national holiday in honor of The One was a one-time holiday to take place on inauguration day.

  73. Jangles – Good points, but I think what we really missed during the primaries is the fact that the Republicans had jumped on Obama’s bus too. We couldn’t get McCain elected when his own party didn’t want it to happen.

    IMHO, the corporations that run both parties wanted their candidate and they got him. Hooorrrraaayyyy.

    I think we should see what Obama delivers as opposed to what he is promising. According to Joe Biden, he is planning things that we Americans won’t like. So Jangles, I also do not think we should fall into the trap of pretending we know what’s going to happen.

    We need to keep our eyes wide open and prepare ourselves for all possibilities, including an 8-year Obama presidency.

  74. Clean up at 3:28.

  75. I would not vote for a woman just because she is a woman. Look at pelosi…poor choice. From now on it’s the person that I feel is best qualified and it will be country first. I do hope that out of all of this a new party emerges and we have wonderful strong candidates.

  76. Rod, that is the pot calling the kettle black isn’t it.

    You are not a Democrat.

    You are an Obamacrat

    Democrats don’t vilify women or the working class.

    As far as going away, personally I left the loser DNC when they booted Hillary and you no longer have to worry about me giving a dime to your pathetic party of jackasses.

    What a bunch of losers you are.

  77. Valhalla

    Brit had the excellent idea that we need a forum style site fil of Confluence minded folk. I absolutely agree with her. It allows a bunch of ideas to be brainstormed on simultaneously. That said, I do not even have the vaguest idea on how to set up a forum format. I

  78. Betty – Pelosi is bad, but if she had a lot more women around her, she might feel more empowered to push a more liberal agenda.

    I know it is uncomfortable to think about voting based on gender, but I think it is the only way womens’ rights can move forward.

  79. Guys,

    Don’t listen to these mentally bankrupt Obama supporters. They want to crush your spirit.

    I went head to head with one in person yesterday and she practically ran away. They are cowards.

    Don’t give Obama the credit of 8 years in office. Start fighting NOW to get this empty suit anti-American out of office in 4 years.

  80. I think we should have a “sweetie” watch — document the things BO says or does that are dismissive or belittling of women.
    First on the list since the election: Nancy Reagan’s “seances”. That was a gratuitous way to deride a powerful woman as being irrational and emotional.

  81. I love your posts afrocity, especially this one to Rod. Ha!

  82. Afrocity – I don’t think Jangles is an Obama supporter, but it would be foolish to assume that Obama is now inevitable for eight years.

    As we’ve seen in this crazy election season, anything can happen. We need to keep paying attention and get even more active!

    Votermom – There are already Hillary and Sarah Sexism watches, but an Obama “sweetie” sexism watch would be a very cool idea!

  83. If you really want to get a shocking wake-up ask a man, “If it were possible, would you be willing to be a woman for a day? Not just dressing the role, but actually BE a woman to experience what we experience.”

    I asked the man in my life this question. He totally and emphatically rejected it. He wasn’t even willing to do it for a day. Why? I think it had to do with being powerless. Think about that.

  84. This is probably trite in today’s world but I do think it is worth doing.

    Use our online capacity for dialogue to build a Vision Statement—who we are, what we aim to achieve over the long run, and how we plan to do that.

    Based on that vision, define the mission of the various PUMA organizations, blogs, etc—What are their goals in support of that vision; what are the activities each will undertake to carry out those goals; how will we know we are making progress? How do we structure working organizational units: by congressional district? states? regional areas? or stay national?

    I also think we need to figure out how to determine how many of us there are and where are those numbers located?

  85. I apologize for this off-topic comment. Has anyone else received this e-mail from Move-On? They are selling (my word) posters to help move Obama’s “progressive” agenda forward.

    It’s amazing — asking for more money!

    I’m sorry about the link — I don’t know how to add it so that it works.

    Dear MoveOn member,

    As President-elect Obama (isn’t that still so fun to say?) reminded us in his speech on election night, this victory itself is not the change we seek—it’s a chance to make that change. To win things like clean energy, health care for all Americans, and an end to the war in Iraq, we need to keep fighting alongside Barack Obama.

    That’s why we’re launching a massive new campaign to help pass Obama’s progressive agenda.

    And to raise the money for that campaign, we’ve decided to offer an amazing Shepard Fairey “Victory” poster to everyone who donates $20 or more. Can you help launch our campaign to back up Obama—and get this beautiful poster to celebrate our win? Click below:


    We know that change won’t be easy.

  86. I agree, Jangles.

  87. The only reason I haven’t unsubscribed to these “progressive” emails is to keep tabs on what they are doing.

  88. kjm – Wow!

    I wonder how many women would switch to being a man for a day? I know I would in one-tenth of a second.

  89. creepy poster.

  90. And votermom the seances crack was actually a 2-fer because Nancy’s scandal was consulting an astrologer. Hillary’s scandal was doing a meditation upon Eleanor Roosevelt and, I think, imaging what advice her predecessor would have. It was in meetings with Jean Houston who, and I probably won’t aptly describe her, is a sort of high-concept inspirational human potential speaker and writer.

    So it was probably accidental on purpose of Obama, and just typical. Was it on here that someone said they can’t wait to see him give the shoulder brush or the middle finger nose scratch to foreign leaders? Of course he would only do it to embattled countries who have been invaded by an aggressor probably.

  91. kjm – I don’t even need to “ask” my husband about that. I know the answer.

  92. Typical guy who couldn’t get a date to save his life saying “I didn’t want that chick anyway…or that one…or that one…”

    We’re onto you, Pathetic “Tiny Rod” Man. Just like we’re on to your Plastic Messiah. Now go clean your room like your Mom told you.

    TRK, while I am happily in a relationship right now, I have been exactly where you are!! Also, at my (ahem) advanced age, I’ve never been married, but I always remember what Katherine Hepburn said: “If you want to trade the admiration of many men for the criticism of one man, go ahead, get married.”

  93. dwwenz – I know if I were an Obot I would be getting really sick of all this fundraising, but then maybe that is part of the reason I am not one?

  94. Afrocity: Please do not get me wrong. I said above that O “would probably dominate” the next 8 years. I don’t say that because I am an O supporter. I am emphatically not. I say that because I have found myself totally underestimating his movement. I still can not believe that he could have all the associations he had coming up the political ladder, achieve absolutely nothing in his political life and walk off with the presidency as he did. I am not sure it serves us to find someone to blame—whether the Republican party failing, Palin failing, McCain failing, the economy tanking, Bush legacy crashing down on every voter just moments before the election, the msm—etc. and et al. His campaign made those things work for him. What I am trying to say is that we have to look long and hard at what he has put together because it was far stronger and fierce than I thought. Bringing it down will not be easy.

  95. perries, I can’t wait for BO & Sarkozy to get in a face-slapping fight. LOL.

  96. Rod is an Obama toilet seat warmer. It is really pathetic to see the Democratic Party reduced to bottom feeders like this.

  97. Jangles … I’m with you. I think the only thing that’s going to stop him is term limits. Sorry if that’s a bummer for some to hear.

    Rod, don’t you have better things to do? Like looking at Terry Tate videos or something? PISS OFF!

  98. Jangles, Obama shits sitting down just like the rest of us…Then again I take that back because so much BS comes from his mouth as well.

    Obama and Bush are very similar. Bush was reelected only because we were in the middle of a war. People will not be that kind to Obama. He is so afraid of failing that he will. He will be gone like Carter.

  99. Jangles,
    Oh Obama will plunge in popularity. Every President has since I’ve been politically aware. The issue is when it happens, how long it lasts and what the reasons are for it.

  100. Dancing said:

    If you want to trade the admiration of many men for the criticism of one man, go ahead, get married.”

    Worthy of a space on my fridge

  101. Democrat08 and Rod are the same person.

    Funny how phony democrat Obama supporters are so jealous of us.

  102. I will place it right beside this one:

    “Always aim high, work hard and care deeply about what you believe in and when you stumble, keep faith and when you’re knocked down, get right back up and never listen to anyone who says you can’t or shouldn’t go on.”

  103. I think the keys to whether Obama is reelected will be twofold: 1) the media and 2) his fanatical online supporters.

    If the media stays in his camp for the next four years, and his Obots continue their slavish devotion, then it will be hard to counter it. But we can spend the next four years trying to do so.

  104. “Can you help launch our campaign to back up Obama”

    So moveon.org is openly a pressure group for the executive branch now?

  105. alice – Yes, funny how they used to be the voice of dissent…

  106. kjmontana,

    I looked for some reference to it to back up this up, but it happened in the 1970’s so it’s not on the web. A magazine did a poll of men asking them if they had to make a choice between being female, black, or confined to a wheelchair, which order would they choose? They chose to give up their mobility as a first choice, then become black, with being a woman a distant third.

  107. You are invited to a party for my white friends

    Dec 20th

    White people free from guilt party.

    I will serve ” white freedom cake”

    If you voted for Obama you get an extra piece of cake.

    Remember all whites are pardoned from the sins of their ancestors.

  108. Alice didn’t you hear the new talking point?

    It is all our responsibilities to make Dear Leader a success!

    I sure hope the Obama campaign team ain’t holding their breath waiting for me to hop on board. There are better chances of snowballs.

  109. Afrocity – Do I get cake if my ancestors were European and never owned slaves?

    I would be so bummed if I couldn’t absolve all my imagined sins by voting for the One!

  110. I don’t take responsibility for my ancestors’ actions. That said, Obama is not a flipping time machine, his election does not erase racism or oppression.

    You should change the party invitation to read delusional white blogger boyz and those that hang off their every word.

  111. Obama = the never ending campaign

  112. The AA community got what it wanted: a black man in the WH. Who he is and what he supports have no bearing on that “historical” decision. And if it means another group was thrown out the bus in their quest for human rights, tough luck. Critical thinking, along with objectivity and the knowledge of whom and what you are voting for, got lost in the shuffle.

    And none of the members of the community who supported Obama has the right to say now they had no idea. If nothing else, he pretty much telegraphed his views on gays from the beginning. So put the blame where it deserves to rest: both the gay and black communities who refused to accept the facts that were right in front of their faces. People like Melissa Etheridge, Rachel Maddow, Andrew Sullivn and Ellen promoted this empty suit at the cost to themselves.

    There is plenty of blame to go around but those white gay supporters need to carefully examine what all the trumpeting on his behalf gained them. Do I hear the word “nothing” forming?

  113. Don’t you know dissent is so passe’. it’s unity bus time.

    After all, I mean hew does have a D after his name and everything. Doesn’t thst make you feel all hopey changey?

  114. madamab,
    I think the slavish supporters are going to be a problem. I can’t see them continuing to drink the kool aid forever. I think it will depend on a lot of variables like the economy, what is going on in the world etc. He’s already disappointing a lof of them.

    The media will drop him once the approval ratings drop. That’s the okay they need. The media always turns, even Tweetie turned against Bush. It might take a while though and it might not happen soon. I got so sick of the media constantly apologizing for Bush. I guess they’re going to continue that pattern.

  115. madamab, haven’t you heard? Blacks don’t care when your folks got here. You are still Da man!!!!

    We are also having a “scapegoat seance” to bring back ancestors from the dead so we can pardon them on a personal level.

    See if whites knew this they would have elected an “African American” president AGES AGO.

  116. Ga6th – I agree. I’ve heard that they’re already disappointed by the Rahm Emanuel pick. But how freaking clueless could they be? Do the words “telecom immunity” and C*lin P*well mean anything to them?

    I TOLD YOU SO!!!

  117. Sorry Cwaltz, but my Caucasian SO, voted for McCain but is thrilled that he can’t be blamed for any AA not making it anymore.

  118. Noepiphany – I apologize for deleting your post, but it was rather tinfoil hat-like.

    I don’t see any evidence that Obama was elected solely by Jewish interests, but that’s what you seemed to be implying.

  119. Shoot my ancestors were oppressed peasants in Ireland, Scotland and Poland who only got here in the 20th century.

    Does that mean I can’t have any cake?

  120. afrocity, on November 10th, 2008 at 4:13 pm Said:

    You are invited to a party for my white friends

    White people free from guilt party.


    afrocity, you know I will be there even though I have been absolved right here at The Confluence (pre-election even). I think that there will be a radiant glow as we white people receive absolution in this great era of Obamaness. Free at last indeed. And eating our cake too!

  121. Ah, I am still guilty so I can have some cake. Hey this is just like my years in a religion, feeling like the guilty sinner I am, and can never escape being, all the time.

  122. living in progressive central california, many gays are saying that california voters gave more protection to chickens than gay marriage (for those who don’t know, we also voted on giving more space to animals we eat such as chickens since we no longer have a veal industry here as it was already run out of the state) and avoiding pointing fingers at the latin and black vote. it really is a shame that the ethnic groups that most frequently cry foul are now pretty much responsible of not allowing gay marriage. hey, stupids, it’s a civil contract between people. even her highness, nancy pelosi, has said that the california voters were “not informed” or “not smart enough” or “fooled” or whatever she said. hey, if you don’t want gay marriages, go to a church that won’t perform them but don’t keep a segment of society from have this kind of contract. and since the fed govt. doesn’t recognize them, the irs advantages are not the same.

    however, what i would like to address is we need to face it ladies and gents if you are over 40 years old or so. we are dinosaurs and a dying breed. our view of the united states, the constitution and history is pretty much over and done with. it is no longer taught in school to have civic pride, obey laws and to expect to be paid equally for the same job and have the right to decide your reproductive life. well young ladies and young women, you will soon find out what it was we won for you because it will soon be eroded. you will find your rights eroded before you even realized you had them. our carefuly votes based on reason and experience no longer count because it is going to be the one with the most money, the best computer data base, the one who bought off the media and the one that makes you feel good about yourself that will one. ours is a two party system, basically and a third party will never succeed. it may be our best and only chance to try and work with the republican party to liberalize it and push it more to the center.

  123. Remember I am still selling those

    “I voted yes to Obama and Proposition 8”

    fleece hoodies $45

    Monogrammed extra $5 per letter.

  124. afrocity, yeouch! : )

  125. “cry foul”

    Heehee that’s a pun in this instance.

  126. Jangles, you are on to something. We had a lot of wishful thinking going on during the primary season, especially with regards to what we thought Senator Clinton’s choice of clothing or eye winks or sudden itches (just kidding!) meant. I understand it, but it didn’t get us anywhere but disappointed. The time is up for wishful thinking for me. Facing reality as it is (as opposed to how I wish it was) has to be the order of the day, or I will waste valuable time and energy interpreting tics instead of working for real change.

  127. “A magazine did a poll of men asking them if they had to make a choice between being female, black, or confined to a wheelchair, which order would they choose? They chose to give up their mobility as a first choice, then become black, with being a woman a distant third.”

    I was so shocked when my SO said he wouldn’t want be a woman. First the question was to be a woman for a week, then a day, then a couple of hours. Not even for a couple of hours. I wondered if it had to do with him feeling women were inferior. That wasn’t it. It was the power thing, specifically being afraid of being physically vulnerable. That women always have to be aware of where they are and who is around them. The loss of freedom to go wherever and whenever they want to. He was very uncomfortable about that. I’m sure there was more, but I didn’t have a chance to pursue it any further.

  128. madazhel, on November 10th, 2008 at 3:19 pm Said:

    The leadership, reviewers, researchers and participation must be across party lines. (Look how NOW behaved– condoning an all male ticket because it was Democratic. WTF?!)

    Boy – I went out to catch up on groceries and you guys got into a really deep and interesting thread.
    I agree Madazhel – in fact it occured to me that NOW really screwed up this time around and perhaps the PUMA role should be to use our power as a bloc to keep a spotlight on issues that need change – i.e. misogyny, real racism, ageism, homophobia and continue to educate women about how many of them are living under the bus and don’t even know it.
    It will take much reseach to stay on top of what’s going on and work to highlight the right issues.
    It has driven me right up the wall at times when I see women do so much against their own well being and not even know it. And yes, indeed women don’t always recognize their being a woman first and foremost and then being part of a racial group, social group or creed.

  129. I am sorry, I am from the South and my ancestors did the bad thing. I didn’t do it, but my great -great-great grandfather did. However, he must have been a semi-decent person, because he gave his workers land and livestock. This does not make it right and I am sorry.

  130. Afrocity, I know some folks I could give those hoodies to as Christmas gifts. Some of them even live in CA!

  131. “living in progressive central california, many gays are saying that california voters gave more protection to chickens than gay marriage (for those who don’t know, we also voted on giving more space to animals we eat such as chickens. . . ”

    California: Where chickens are cage-free and gays are kept in the closet.

  132. ‘However, thanks to some new studies done by the U.N. and an organization called WEDO, we know that when women comprise 30% or more of a nation’s government, life starts improving dramatically for women and men within that nation. The women who are elected do not have to belong to any particular party or espouse any particular set of principles. They just have to be women.’


    Perhaps an inclusive lobbying group for a variety of policy issues women tend to be more concerned about could work.
    There are many PUMA men but I think they could easily feel welcome.

  133. “There are many PUMA men but I think they could easily feel welcome.”

    for the most part, women’s rights are people’s rights. unfortunately, i can’t think of the reverse being true…maybe someone out there can point out an example, but i’m sure not able to.

  134. Jangles raises a good point. We need to keep different possible outcomes in mind as we plan. Here’s a fav quote of mine:

    “The key to victory is not to choose a path to victory, but to choose so that all paths lead to victory.”

    Obama’s ongoing popularity will be closely tied to the economy. The race was tied until the economy tanked. The media was able to foist him on us as a candidate because no one has any experience with him as an executive and there was no contrary evidence in people’s daily lives. But media lies won’t work if we end up with a Carter-era economy — people will know whether they have a job or not, whether they can buy food or not, whether they can afford gas to drive to work or not, whether they are freezing because they can’t afford heating oil or not. Even the giant Obot machine won’t be able to bully people into believing they own homes when they are homeless or have jobs when they are jobless, or are warm when they are freezing.

    I doubt Obama will be able to turn the economy around. But let’s say he does. In a bad economy different groups turn on each other and positive change is that much harder. (eg, I expect the demographic divisions on Prop 8 to get worse before they get better). It’s easier to make positive efforts in a good economy because people have the space and energy in their lives to think beyond just the basics, they are less afraid. So we can take advantage of that, whether it would win Obama a second term or not.

  135. afrocity:

    Why do you feel the need to be so hateful towards others, while saying that Obama supporters are the “intolerant” ones? Can you see how little sense that makes? Also, talking about Michelle Obama and planes is just silly (and petty).

    “You are not a Democrat.

    You are an Obamacrat

    Democrats don’t vilify women or the working class.

    As far as going away, personally I left the loser DNC when they booted Hillary and you no longer have to worry about me giving a dime to your pathetic party of jackasses.

    What a bunch of losers you are.”

    Who are you to tell someone what THEY are? Clearly, you think its ok to call someone else names, yet you would be up in arms if someone said the same thing about you (or you’d call them an Obamabot or some other elementary term). Also, the last time I checked, millions of working-class Americans and working women supported the Democrats, who respect them.

    Don’t call people “losers” just because you still can’t process that. Its perfectly fine to have opinions, but double standards will be called out on.

  136. delurking to identify cleanup required on aisle Jon 5:34.
    While I am delurked, thanks to all for being such a great group. Visit here everyday, and I am so glad Afrocity is still here.
    Back to lurkerdom.

  137. HT, I really like your icon photo of the doggy. Where did you get that from? Thanks for delurking!

  138. E, I got it from the gravatar website several years ago. Don’t know why, because I rarely post. I believe it’s at .http://en.gravatar.com/ but it’s been a few years. Thanks.

  139. Afrocity, I love your piercing wit. Now where do I get one of those tire tracks “Greetings from under the bus” hoodies! 😀

  140. afrocity is cracking me up. If you had any idea how much the white Obamabots really think that way.

  141. I look at Barack Obama, and I see a person who cynically and cruelly used misogyny and homophobia to gain the most powerful office in the world.

    Me too, and it’s particularly dissonant given the unprecedented glorification of the false president-elect. I would add race-baiting, and voter fraud, suppression, and manipulation to the misogyny. I look at him and see…


    I agree madamab: progress is a process. We coalesced a powerful force in just 5 months. It’s only the beginning, not the end.

  142. “vaginal Americans” – I am so stealing this one!

  143. I mentioned this over at Liberal Rapture. Ironically, this week on Celebrity Rehab of all places, gay support of African Americans discussed. Rodney King told how gays were marching in Downtown L.A. when the verdict against the cops who beat him came down. Gays turned around from their protest to start chanting, “No Justice, No Peace.” I don’t remember Rodney’s exact words but he was very appreciative of the support he received from gays.

  144. Madamab: With respect to a few other really good pieces, this is the best, smartest, most heartening thing I’ve read on the internet in days.

    I’m a bit distracted with work obligations for the next couple of weeks but will be lurking!

    Heidi Li

  145. Hi folks. I’m a wandering conservative who came by because I’ve been thinking a lot about “common cause” and where my political principles and yours actually intersect (it seems a lot more intersecting than I originally thought).

    I’ll just say that you probably shouldn’t emulate conservatives too much in the future. After all, we’re barely half of the Republican party and more than a few of the GOP would like to heave us over the side. But perhaps we can learn how to push our principles together on both parties. Surely we can share the heavy lifting and perhaps make some new friends and allies along the way.

  146. Never forget the fate of the rats and kiddies who followed the Pied Piper.

    BO has created impossible expectations, and will likely steer straight for the nearest steep cliff. Unity and Hope, Alinsky-style.

  147. LibOne, on November 10th, 2008 at 8:50 pm Said:

    Gays turned around from their protest to start chanting, “No Justice, No Peace.” I don’t remember Rodney’s exact words but he was very appreciative of the support he received from gays.//
    Unfortunately, King was and remains a dumbass thug who milked AA status for all it was worth.

  148. A holiday? Sure, and don’t forget Rushmore!

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