Tuesday: “An injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere”

Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska, feminist

Martin Luther King Jr. said that.  Liberal Democratic women do not seem to understand this statement.  Basically, it means that discrimination, disrespect, misogyny directed towards Sarah Palin is really discrimination, disrespect, misogyny towards all women.  It’s just delivered by proxy.

It shouldn’t matter what political party the woman belongs to.  You have every right to disagree wih her politics.  But it is morally wrong to cheer on the abuse that has been hurled at her, and let us be clear about this, abuse that has been specifically gender related.

She is assumed to be dumb because she is pretty.  The media has screamed and thrown a fit to get  interviews and then proceeded to edit, chop and take her words out of context to reinforce their predetermined narrative.  I’ve watched exactly one interview and have focussed afterwards on Sarah’s live appearances and debate performances.  Peeps, Sarah is not dumb.  She’s got incredible political intuition and she’s a quick study.  After 4 years as VP, she would be a formidable opponent to Hillary Clinton.  If liberal women were outraged by the media’s treatment of Hillary, they are being hypocritical in turning against Sarah.  The injustice is just as bad, if not worse.

When there is constant criticism of her experience, even though she has more practical executive experience than any other candidate, when her clothes are the topic of faux outrage, when she’s been described as “flaky” and “dumb” by fellow PUMAs, when she’s tackled by a linebacker, ridiculed by Katie Couric (I won’t even go there), parodied in a pornographic film called Nailin’ Palin’ and finally hung in effigy, the injustice has gone way beyond the pale.

We are all diminished by this treatment.  If the media and the Obama campaign can take out two of the most powerful women in America through sexist behavior, what’s to stop your workplace from doing the same to you simply because you were graced with two X chromosomes?  Who is going to stick up for YOU when you complain about the cat calls and the ridicule and rough treatment at the hands of men?  The Obama campaign with the help of the nation’s media has declared war on our gender and so far, no one has been held accountable.  When it happens to you, where will you find allies?

What is really disappointing is that Hillary Clinton herself has become restrained by her own party loyalty to support the perpetrator of the crimes against women this year.  Obama does nothing to condemn this behavior and benefits enormously from the outcome.  And Hillary says nothing.  This is the woman we admired for saying that “women’s rights are human rights”, who was a target of this unfair treatment and she ends up reinforcing it by going along to get along.  She sacrifices her moral authority on the treatment of women in order to protect what is left of her political career.  Of all the things I have witnessed this year, this has got to be the saddest.  It shows how effective the injustice has been and diminishes her role as a leader. I’m glad that her surrogate, Linda Bloodworth- Thomasson is speaking out in Sarah’s defense but I’d really like to hear Hillary condemn it, even if it embarrasses the party she represents and its nominee.

PUMAs, if you are still giving into consensus reality and telling your friends that you agree that Sarah is dumb because everyone else is saying it, stop and think about what you are doing.  Now is the time to tell your friends that their attitude is out of bounds and you don’t believe that Sarah got fair treatment from the media.  It is time to tell them to stop spreading the injustice because it will come back to haunt you.  Check out Team Sarah, a group started by Republican women to push back against the misogyny.  Or visit The New Agenda to see how you can advocate for women of all political persuasions.  We must do this ourselves.  No one else will do it for us.

When you stick up for Sarah, you stick up for yourself.  Let’s push this evil thing back into the bottle.

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293 Responses

  1. I childhood friend sent me one of ‘those’ emails. It trashed Palin and her children. I told her that it was garbage and that I did not want to receive any more of those emails. She hasn’t emailed since. I figure when this is all over, we will act like it never happened.

  2. Some female commenter at TGW (at least it was a female name) claimed to be “embarrassed” by Governor Palin.

    I asked her to list her accomplishments, because I figured they must have been pretty awesome if she was embarrassed by Sarah.

    For some reason I didn’t get a reply.

  3. Great post riverdaughter. I was reminded when I saw the photo of Palin hung in effigy of these famous words credited to the Reverend Martin Niemoeller

    ” In Germany they first came for the Communists,
    and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Catholics,
    and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

    Then they came for me —
    and by that time no one was left to speak up”

    You don’t need to be a republican, a conservative, a Christian, and American or even a woman to speak up against the violent misogyny that is growing stronger and viler and more acceptable every day in this country, you just need to be a human being.

  4. What the heck is TGW??? I’ve seen it mentioned here before but I am completely drawing a blank.

  5. Tennessee Guerilla Woman

  6. TGW cuz the other is way too hard to spell out

  7. Honora, on October 28th, 2008 at 8:05 am Said:
    I childhood friend sent me one of ‘those’ emails. It trashed Palin and her children.
    ********************************************

    I got one from my brother and one of my best friends; both Hillary supporters and extremely intelligent, or so I had always believe. I didn’t restrain my words in my response emails to them as my anger and disbelief that they, of all people, would succumb to these obvious smears was overwhelming. Suffice it to say that the holidays this year will be much quieter occassions in our household.

  8. Timely needed post, RD. I like to tell the frowning Sarah Palin haters (they’re usually angry when they talk about her) that they’re underestimating her. They are my friends who are usually quite rational. They’re Obama supporters, but most were past Hillary supporters, and the kool-aid is not evident.

  9. So Hillary is supposed to go around defending Palin. Palin called Hillary a whiner when she talked about the unfair treatment but now Hillary is supposed to start fighting for Palin. When she does that everyone will start thinking that she is supporting the republicans. None of these republican politician women came to Hillary’s defense why should she?

  10. RD, this is a very powerful post.

    In answer, I can say that EVERY day I speak up for her. Her treatment is the straw that caused me to admit in public that I am voting MCPalin.

    That sibling “holiday” nightmare started when I defended Sarah to a sib. I don’t mind taking hits on her behalf. It’s the least I can do, and it feels right.

    I joke about wearing my hair like Sarah everyday as a silent show of support. It’s true that there is big humour there, but I also have a sense of pride in doing it for my private reasons. And also a kick out out my coworkers (obots nearly all) who have made comment about the change but haven’t put it together.

  11. After the Repub convention a co-worker asked what I thought of Paling. I said I thought the sexist treatment of her in the media was disgusting.
    He said “They’re going to bury her”.
    I said, “It’s so sexist because she has more executive experience than either of the men, and Obama’s never had a full time job”.
    He replied, “He was a constitutional law professor”.

    What’s funny is, besides the fact that he never was a professor, who would you want leading the country. A governor or a constitutional law professor?

  12. I’ve been surfing a few winger sites the last month or so and despite their reputation what I see them saying about Obama is far less toxic than what the Obots say about McCain or Palin, or what they said about Hillary.

  13. Did Palin actually call her a whiner? Someone needs to find the quote… I heard she actually said Hillary was going to be “perceived as a whiner” (as in… the MSM thinking she was whining). Not positive though.

  14. Downticket,

    I know plenty of Republican women that came to Hillary’s defense when she was savaged.

  15. Downticket, I’ve heard Palin be very respectful toward Hillary and vice versa.

    I’d love for Hillary to be able to set the record straight and call out the abuse. Hopefully she and Bill are doing it behind the scenes. In my book, a surrogate counts. Time will tell whether Hillary can survive to lead when this election is over. Not so much if Obama is elected. : (

  16. Downticket: Yes, she is supposed to condemn the misogyny. Does she have to praise Sarah? No, but in this case, it goes beyond politics and I’d think more of her for doing it than her gracious support of a nominee who doesn’t deserve her support.
    And actually, Palin has made a point of saying nice things about Hillary in her stump speeches. She knows she needs us to win. It’s smart on two levels. As for whining about the misogyny, it’s true that some people are going to hate to see a woman run and are going to be bigots about it. But the media doesn’t condemn Obama for whining about racism all damn day long.
    If Palin was wrong to say it, SHE should be called on it as well. We have to present a united front. The assault is on ALL women, regardless of political affiliation.

  17. This says something deeply and tragically mean about our political discourse. I remember reading the book, Scandalmongers, which was about the political scene and behind the scene in the politics of our forefathers and founders. At that time people wrote screeds under nom de plumes and they were printed in the penny newspapers. It was a favorite way to get out to the public what was rumor or made-up gossip and slander of just this stripe. It is interesting that the internet has made that kind of discourse possible again with a vengeance because you can hide behind a false and assumed name. What would happen if people on blogs had to post everything under their true name? It is that mean streak that fires the tabloids and the gossip magazines and the worst dressed list.

    I joined Team Sarah. I did so because of women like Lady Lynn Rothschild and Julie Thompsom. I hope others here will do the same.

    Thank you RD for breaking through the ice on this and calling on Sen. Clinton. She is in a unique position to make a powerful statement. It does little good for us to protest the treatment of women in burkhas and brothels when we offer up an alternative public arena that defiles and demeans any woman who tries to live up to her god given potential.

  18. Another thing-the abuse is of the creepiest and sick sort, like “I wanna kill her, but I wanna f*@ck her first”

    That blow up doll sported by people who “hate” her.

    (blood boiling..)

    I did join Team Sarah. Felt good.

  19. BPD:

    IIRC, taken in context what Palin said was really directed at the media, not Hillary

  20. What you said needs saying. We sit here waiting for someone, anyone to stand tall and beat this wave of vulgarity back and there is no one who possesses the ability to do so willing to come forth. Some of us here have slyly tip toed around the issue for fear of giving offense but the elephant in the room refuses to budge.

    Moral indignation is reserved for those who seize the opportunity to defend Obama in the face of rampant sexism because of compromise and the familiar “go along to get along”. Frankly, I am tired of the excuses. Excuses have gotten us nowhere in this battle. The danger of not speaking out is far outweighed by the inherent disrespect that is attached to all of us when a female is attacked. It shows that we just don’t care enough about ourselves as women.

    I long for a voice. I hear only the silence. If we continue to excuse those in power who have not made this an issue then we are no longer the sisterhood we fought to create.

    I admire your risk taking because you have let the genie out of the bottle and addressed the concept that the elephant in the room will not likely disappear until we recognize that the leadership we crave is missing. To excuse this indifference for any reason is constructing a greater barrier to equal rights for women. The time is now, not later for our female leaders to show some internal fortitude, careers be damned.

    Some will not take kindly to this post but I salute your ability to identify an issue that bears scrutiny. Where are our leaders? I have no idea. Apparently none speak for us.

  21. RD:

    I’m inclined to give Hillary a break – they are forcing her to eat shit and then complaining she’s not taking big enough bites.

    But yeah, I’m disappointed too.

  22. Good Morning All,

    I have defended Sarah on many occasions. Again OBOT talking points rarely have any logic behind them. When they say she is stupid, or EVIL, Afrocity has to “break it down for them”. I go through her accomplishments and that usually shuts them up, or they stoop to criticizing her accent, her commitment to her children or any other preposterous line of OBOT attack. Mind you these are almost always the very same individuals who attacked Hillary.

    When I hear this I look them square in the eye and say:

    “Let’s cut the bull. You and I both know that you would gladly sacrifice a panda bear cub for your Messiah Barack Obama. Now that we are clear on this matter, there is no need for you to demean his opponents under the guise of your false, flimsy, and ever so transparent veil of “concern” for the issues or character of the candidate. When you accepted Obama as your nominee and savior despite tangible and compelling knowledge of Wright, Ayers, Rezko, Phlager, his commitment to socialism and his short 143 day senate career-all bets were off, so the phony pretense express ends right here with me. “

  23. myiq,

    I tend not to like seeing Hill as a victim of any sort. I don’t believe that anyone can or is truly forcing her. How could they?

    This is her strategic choice, I’ll bet, mixed with her highly refined sense of grace and generosity.

  24. “Let’s cut the bull. You and I both know that you would gladly sacrifice a panda bear cub for your Messiah Barack Obama. Now that we are clear on this matter, there is no need for you to demean his opponents under the guise of your false, flimsy, and ever so transparent veil of “concern” for the issues or character of the candidate. When you accepted Obama as your nominee and savior despite tangible and compelling knowledge of Wright, Ayers, Rezko, Phlager, his commitment to socialism and his short 143 day senate career-all bets were off, so the phony pretense express ends right here with me. “

    AFROCITY!
    Yeh, baby!!!

  25. myiq2xu: Sorry, this should be an easy decision for her. I’m glad she is getting her surrogates out but there is no substitute for her condemning the media’s treatment of Sarah.
    She risks her own reputation if she does nothing.

  26. Palin didn’t call Clinton ‘a whiner’. That’s obot bullsh*t. She was responding to a question in which the interviewer asked her what she thought about Clinton’s ‘complaints’ about sexism (‘complaints’ which Clinton never made) and she said it was unfortunate because any kind of ‘perceived whine’ was problematic. She was quite clear about the distinction.

    Not that it matters — two wrongs don’t make a right.

  27. joaniebone:

    If I lose faith in Hillary then I’m pretty much done with the Democrat party.

    Let me cling to my illusions just a little longer, ok?

  28. We tend to defend one another on this blog when we feel that one of us has been unfairly treated. But this is only a blog. We should be witnessing more of this defense by people who have a voice, who have the power, who enjoy the spotlight, to defend us.

    No more excuses!

  29. I can’t reply to the poll because I’m not “out” at work and that’s why I don’t confront any anti-Palin lies. It a very strange position for me to be in because I’m known as the outspoken liberal. Everyone assumes that I’m voting for Obama.

    I had posted several nights ago that I was stuck in an anti-Palin email swarm (about her wardrobe) at work and I was contemplating “replying all” in her defense. But since one of my bosses had started the email and the president of our company (a woman!) was also involved, I was afraid of how it would impact my job.

    I did, however, provide a link to snopes debunking that stupid bikini photo that my boss had sent around saying it was real. But other than that I’ve been keeping my mouth shut. It’s not easy.

    I joined Team Sarah too. And I have my Sarah as Rosie the Riveter button on my purse. Unbelievably, no on has noticed it yet. (Now that I’ve said that, someone will.)

  30. Hillary said that there was misogyny directed at Palin and said that people needed to talk about it whenever witnessed (paraphrasing). That is enough. Why should she make a big speech now? No one made it on behalf.

    Palin is only saying nice things about Hillary because she wants her supporters votes. She wouldn’t be saying any of it if it weren’t for that. Palin should fight this on her own not with Hillary. If people like Gov. Palin had spoken up when Hillary was still in the primary I would maybe understand the need for Hillary to start defending her but I don’t. Maybe if they had, it would be as bad as it is. The truth is when it was Hillary they were mostly quiet but now Hillary is expected to start defending her.

    joaniebone – I was referring to Republican politician women

  31. RD:

    It seems to me that Hillary is back in the “too cautious” mode that got her in trouble at the beginning of the campaign.

    She was much better when she was fearless.

  32. I don’t think Sarah Palin has gotten any worse treatment than Dan Quayle (just for one example).

    Maybe you think that’s unfair because you believe Quayle was actually stupid. But he probably wasn’t, and neither is Sarah. They just get the treatment that the insiders give to someone who is not one of them.

  33. I do understand, my iq. I am with you, too. These are very sad times. I guess I feel done with the Demo party.

    But I do think Hill can and will step up. How could she not? There is time, but like RD, I hope it is now.

    How her generosity could be directed BO, I’ll never know.

  34. Eleanor Roosevelt stood up to those who would forbid Marian Anderson, a black singer, from performing at an event in Washington, DC. She did this at a time when civil rights and equal rights were unheard of. She took the flack and used her “bully pulpit” to bring down those bigots.

    This took courage and a deep sense of moral integrity. Has this moral outrage disappeared? We fought for our rights to become “equals” yet we appear to be willing to deny them in the face of this blatancy for the sake of what exactly?

    No more excuses!

  35. Sarah doesn’t need Hillary to be her mommy.

  36. I think Hillary has refrained from trashing Palin, even though BO sent out the “women” to get her. But by aligning herself with Obama so completely, Hillary is undermining the fight against misogyny, and it does make me sad to see it. I don’t understand it. Palin has achieved something most of us (and the people who criticize her) could never do by not only getting elected governor of a state, but by having an 80% popularity rating at home.

  37. plural:

    When did they do a porno with a Quayle look-alike?

  38. myiq2xu: Cling a little longer. I think that when you see Linda Thomasson cutting down the media for the misogyny you are hearing Hillary speak through her.

  39. plural: I don’t think that was the point of the essay. I believe when women are debased as these two have been, that stain rolls right over on us as well.

    It is seeking a voice to stand up for all women, not just one, and say enough is enough.

    What is done to one is done to all.

  40. myiq2xu, what I’m wondering is whether like her trusting President ILL WILL to make war a last resort, she actually believes that Obama will make good on the promises he’s made. Because she’s a politician, does she have a blind spot toward other politicians?

  41. plural: It’s not about being her mommy. It’s about solidarity with her gender.

  42. joaniebone – I was referring to Republican politician women

    I know you were, and I wasn’t. But I tend to think that there were some politico republican women that did mention the sexism. In the end of the primary season, there were many republicans acknowledging Hill’s treament in the media. I don’t have sources now, I’ll have to look.

  43. No one made it on her behalf.

  44. I am truly disgusted by the DNC and I don’t ever see myself going back to them. The party consist sof truly misguided people. I would rather not sully myself by associating with or voting for any of them. If Thomas Nast were alive I would love to see his caricature of the PARTY OF ASS. Join or Die.

  45. Outside of a few insiders, who has every really heard of Linda Thomasson. It will take someone with much more visibility to throw down the gauntlet. She may act as a surrogate, but the real thing is more powerful.

  46. If Hillary has a fault it is, IMO, that she tests the waters too cautiously before laying things on the line. I’m with RD that Hillary needs to speak out against the tirade of misogyny. To do this without seeming to be simply supporting Sarah Palin, however, it seems that she has to talk about the misogyny directed toward her. And that directly implicates Obama and his foul campaign. So, since many people here agreed that Hillary should live up to what she promised – to support BO – she has, for the time being, to say nothing. I do not see her as being complicit because she presently remains silent. There,s but a few days till this campaign is over. Time will tell.

  47. Downticket: Then you just made the point of the entire essay.

  48. Pat, You’re right. No one is speaking out for us.

    Maybe we need to do it ourselves in the form of protest. There’s not really enough time to form a march but maybe we could do something else to show support. Wear pink t-shirts or something? We could even make a point of welcoming Obama supporters since our protest would be against misogyny, and surely there are some Obama supporters who don’t like these sexist attacks either.

  49. it wouldn’t be as bad as it is.

  50. Yeah, what myiq said at 8:42

  51. Downticket: I spoke to a lot of Republican women who were not public figures who were unhappy with Hillary’s treatment. They’re out there.

  52. gxm17,

    No pink please. I have flashbacks from Code Pink people hurling insults at Hillary and Sarah.

  53. Off to get ready for work–need time to put my Sarah-doo together. :)

  54. Myiq: Yep, her career has been shredded at this point. If she wants a chance at power, she might as well tell it like it is.
    Now’s the time.

  55. Pat:

    Linda Thomasson was a big Clinton supporter back at the beginning.

    He name also came up in the Travel Office non-scandal

  56. gxm17: I hope your co-workers see your Sarah as Rosie the Riveter button and you get the chance to say what is in your heart. That whole thing on the wardrobe is so weird to me. When I was a working woman I bought suits and such at NM and Sax. I had no idea I was such an elitist. I don’t like to shop but I used to go to NM on my birthday because they treat you like queen for a day and lunch was really special. Besides I love that monkey bread. My friends and I lovingly called NM Needless Markup.

  57. Ask yourself this. Would you be okay with a shelter turning away battered women based on their political affiliation? Hell, NO!

    I may be oversimplifying it, but I just can’t fathom why … WHY? It doesn’t make it okay because she’s a Republican?

  58. Mawn: “What’s funny is, besides the fact that he never was a professor, who would you want leading the country. A governor or a constitutional law professor?”

    Bingo! It’s crazy how illogically the obot mind works.

  59. joaniebone, Enjoy!

  60. Have a great day Joanie

  61. Gee, I don’t know about you guys but I think had I been called a ra*cist, an evil witch, had my votes stolen, my husband sullied, my daughter slandered, my hopes dashed by the party machinations of which I was a member, had my works of service dismissed, watched my husband’s legacy trashed, seen my chances of my name put into nomination ignored, and witnessed an out and out defection of delegates signal their support to my opponent prior to all votes being counted, I guess I would have to honestly admit that they do not want me.

    This frees me to go out and at least make the case for women above party. But this is just me.

  62. OT but FOX is just hammering this tape the LA Times is holding on to… I hope the public pressure forces them to release it

  63. myiq: A Clinton trumps a Thomasson any time.

  64. Any unifying color will do, afrocity. I just threw out pink because it seems to be the Team Sarah color. Does anyone know if the suffragettes had a color or symbol?

  65. plural, on October 28th, 2008 at 8:43 am Said:
    I don’t think Sarah Palin has gotten any worse treatment than Dan Quayle (just for one example).
    *********************************************8

    violent effigys of quayle hung by a rope, quayle is a c**t t-shirts, qualye inflatable sex dolls, oh yeah I remember all those now….please.

  66. Bye Family!

  67. I totally agree Pat. I feel the same way about the AAs who support Obama yet silently criticize and despise him (such as Jesse Jackson). Yet they stand by and watch our race be reduced to images of myopic sheep who will vote for anything as long as the melanin count in their skin is high enough.

  68. gxm17, purple.

  69. britgirls, I think it is a different thing. Sarah Palin has spoken publicly about the treatment she expected, and has – at least publicly – laughed it off, saying she has a thick skin. I actually don’t think anyone needs to be either Sarah Palin’s mummy or her solidarity sister. I think Sarah Palin is eminently capable of looking after herself and coming out on top. What has disgusted and distressed most of us, I think, is the screeching of the s*xist harpies, the foul language and thoughts that were scarcely imaginable this time last year. But there’s a reason these ill-bred, rude, disgusting, words of hate abound – the Obots know how terrifying Sarah really is. If she and McCain do not beat Obama this time, Sarah Palin will beat him in 2012.

  70. afrocity: Excellent point! You could not have made the contrast any clearer. That is an analogy that works!

  71. Downticket, on October 28th, 2008 at 8:49 am Said:
    No one made it on her behalf.
    *************************************

    You fail to see the forest for the trees.

    This is not just for Palin’s behalf, or Hillary Clinton’s behalf or any politician’s behalf. These women are tough and experienced in politics, they won’t break or go running home crying…we know that.
    This is for all women, it’s for all girls, its’ for our daughters, our grandaughters, our nieces and our future. If people don’t speak out about this public display of violence and misogyny it becomes more and more acceptable, as it already has.

  72. Well said! I was happy to see Thomasson was a PUMA.
    And a friend did suggest I make a Palin Jack O Lantern (we were carving at the time). I said I don’t subscribe to women hatred and stopped the discussion right there. Still friends.

  73. We should go nude. They have effectively stripped us anyway. Can you just see millions of naked woman and men protesting, I love it.

  74. urgetocompute: Sarah is quite capable of defending herself. I am looking for a forum that defends women everywhere.

  75. Apparently the WSPU (Women’s Social and Political Union, England) used purple, white and green. The purple stood for freedom and dignity, the white for purity and the green for hope.

  76. urgetocompute, on October 28th, 2008 at 8:49 am Said:

    If Hillary has a fault it is, IMO, that she tests the waters too cautiously before laying things on the line.

    How is she being cautious?

    This is unbelievable. Hillary goes through this shit while the majority are quiet and Palin said she whined and even said that Hillary did herself a disservice to mention it all. It bother her as a woman to hear Hillary talk about the treatment she was getting. You are now expecting Hillary to start defending her.

  77. Pat, I understand. And I’ve heard you about the lack of public leadership and support for this. IMO, this site is doing as well as anyone. Keep talking, keep thinking, keep planning.

  78. Pat-Southern women have heard of Lind Bloodworth-Thompson. She finally managed to show us as more than Daisy Duke wearing bimbos that talk funny.

    I have found myself defending Palin every time I am near a friend. I have heard she is dangerous, she is scary and she is dumb, but they never seem to have a reason for saying these things. Except of course, the “she’s dumb” and that is because she is attractive.

    I am so sick of attractive women being labeled as dumb. When I first saw Sarah, I actually wondered if she wore glasses, instead of contacts, so that she would be taken more seriously.

  79. The bottom line on stereotyping and maligning of any kind by any one is that the only way to stop it, is to interrupt it and call it. It’s called peer pressure and it works.

  80. Thanks, purplefinn. I just looked it up. Purple would be a great color.

    afrocity, great concept! but the demonstration site will need to be VERY warm. :D

  81. redistributionist in chief

    lmao

  82. You are now expecting Hillary to start defending her.

    Yes.

  83. Downticket, not it’s not unbelievable – it is in fact very believable. I am not expecting Hillary to defend Sarah Palin. Where did I say that? I said she needs to speak out against misogyny.

  84. urgetocompute, I mostly agree with you – especially the “scared to death” part. However, Sarah and anyone who is so unfairly pilloried needs support. I’m sure that she appreciates “Team Sarah” for helping the campaign and also for the moral and emotional support.

  85. It is sheer hypocrisy for women to say we need more women to become involved with politics if this is what these women can expect to happen. Put aside party labels, we are all women for God’s sake. A slur made against one is a slur against all.

    No more excuses!

  86. purplefinn, on October 28th, 2008 at 9:08 am Said:

    urgetocompute, I mostly agree with you – especially the “scared to death” part.
    _____________________________________________________

    ??? Yo no comprendo.

  87. Speaking out against the gender biased coverage in this election, the slams, slurs and smears being used against clinton and palin and all women.
    If not now, when?

  88. The bottom line on stereotyping and maligning of any kind by any one is that the only way to stop it, is to interrupt it and call it. It’s called peer pressure and it works.

    Perfect!

  89. I guess I spent too many months defending Hillary from some pretty rancid shit that was being thrown at her, because I’m not ready to be very critical of her just yet.

    I’m a die-hard Hillbot

  90. myiq: This is not an undermining of her accomplishments. It is an appeal to her leadership. Who better than she to make the case?

  91. Purple is signigicant because it is also the color chosen to represent Domestic Violence. Pink Ribbon-breast cancer, Purple Ribbon – Domestic Violence.

  92. I’ve gotta run to work but wanted to share the subject line of an email I got from amazon dot com this morning:

    Free Overnight Shipping on PUMA

    I thought…wow, where are we going?

  93. kiki: lol

  94. Downticket Palin never said that Hillary whined. I don’t appreciate you twisting her words. I don’t need to see the tape I already did way before it became fodder for Obamabot talking points.

    I think Hillary needs to defend all woman. This election has had its share of “demographic causalities”. Do you think this election has firmly been a victory for women? What about African Americans? Wow we have our first Female candidate, Our 2nd female VP candidate who happens to be the first GOP VP candidate. Our first African American nominee. Yet I have seen more name calling and race baiting, pictures of watermelon, fried chicken, and lipstick than I have during my entire life.

    Obama should speak out against the race baiting and reverse racism. Instead he partakes in it and benefits from it. Regarding Hillary Clinton, while I commend her for not embracing the filthy beast ,like our ever so disingenuous nominee Obama, she should speak out against the Palin bashing.

  95. urgetocompute, Oops, “the Obots know how terrifying Sarah really is. If she and McCain do not beat Obama this time, Sarah Palin will beat him in 2012.” Interpreted as “scared to death.”

    You also said, “I actually don’t think anyone needs to be either Sarah Palin’s mummy or her solidarity sister. I think Sarah Palin is eminently capable of looking after herself and coming out on top.”

    I think Sarah or anyone receiving such unfair criticism does appreciate support. I know Hillary appreciated the few blogs that were supporting her during the primary.

  96. I did find that Reuters article interesting on another count—there are actually people in Hollywood who would even attend an event that looks at the myopic mind of Hollywood in this time and place? Some of those names were even formerly A list types.

  97. afrocity: You are so in sync!

  98. Don’t forget to light a candle for Hillary’s birthday, it was Saturday!

    (I know this because she and I share a birthday. You can imagine how I squealed with delight when I discovered this!!)

  99. To me Hillary was, and is, the best candidate by far. That was clear a long, long time ago, to me at least. What I hear RD saying, and I support her, is that Hillary needs to take a moral lead. I will say it again, as myiq did: Hillary is sometimes too cautious for my liking. But, hey! she;’s the accomplished states person, not me. As RD implied, Hillary’s been trashed so much there’s nothing to lose by calling one and all on this vile s*xism. But I do not see it happening before November 6.

  100. kiki:

    Someplace tropical I hope?

    Besides Gitmo, that is

  101. Crazy Whacked out Conservative Idiot,

    Just wanted to let the folks know who answered my nutty request about information on PUMA’s, the post I did based on your information is up if you would like to see it. Thanks again for your input I hope you like it. Here is the link if you are interested and thanks again you guys are very gracious and I appreciate the input.

    http://politicsandcriticalthinking.blogspot.com/2008/10/mind-of-puma-through-eyes-of.html

  102. myiq2xu, on October 28th, 2008 at 9:11 am Said

    I guess I spent too many months defending Hillary from some pretty rancid shit that was being thrown at her, because I’m not ready to be very critical of her just yet.

    I’m a die-hard Hillbot

    I can assure I am not a Hillbot if that is what you are trying to imply. There are somethings I don’t agree with Hillary about and can be critical of but this one is not one of them. I just don’t see her defending someone who actually said that it bothered her to hear Hillary talk about the treatment she was getting. When did it become official that whoever didn’t follow the “poor Palin” rutine was a hillbot?

  103. Downticket, take a deep breath, and relax. I did not hear myiq call you or anyone but himself a hillbot. It’s not nice to impute motives to other people without evidence.

  104. CT: You appear to have captured the spirit of PUMAs quite nicely. Well done from my perspective.

  105. Downticket:

    Did you actually read what I wrote?

    I said I am a die-hard Hillbot.

    And I think Sarah Palin ROCKS!

  106. The assault on Sarah Palin brought back old memories that I had mostly pushed aside. Calling her stupid and dumb because she went to a “nothing” college, is from a small town, has a hick accent, and is unusually attractive with a bunch of kids. She is far from stupid and what the hell does the rest of this stuff have to do with politics? I disagree with her on most policy but I know what it feels like to be a young women and demeaned because I am simply the way God made me. It says nothing about Gov Palin and everything about the insecure and threatened snobs and misogynists who malign her. I have reached an age and place in society where I do not have to worry about personal backlash, so I am politely correcting the little creeps. What or why Hillary is doing what she is doing is up to her. I will reevaluate her down the road as I will with all of the other Democratic sycophants.

  107. It is a shame that as women, we are sometimes measured by the names we are called. My former job was a Court Advocate for VOCA and VAWA. One day in court, I overheard an attorney that I had not yet gone up against, tell another attorney that I was “hot”. He responded with, “Try to overlook it, she’s f&*king bitch.” I knew then, that the boys were taking me seriously.

  108. No one is suggesting that Hillary defend Sarah per se. The request is to defend women everywhere. The misogyny has gotten so out of hand that it infects all of us. Forget party labels. When one woman is referred to as a c*nt, then this application is felt by all the sisterhood.

    If anyone sees the justification for this type of smear, then they are missing the point.

  109. *sigh*

    I just don’t see Hillary sticking her neck out on this before the election. And where’s Geraldine Ferraro these days?

  110. …and another thing before I’m swiftly banned.

    Why in the hell should Hillary be responsible for defending Palin?

    Sarah Palin is the anti-Hillary.

    Hillary has a lifetime of accomplishment – accomplishment through her intelligence, hard work, and yes — that awful, awful thing: ambition.

    She was a high achiever in grade school, high school, college, in her professional career, in her political career — and she still found the time to raise a wonderful daughter who is following in her mother’s footsteps as a high achiever.

    Sarah Palin has none of that. There is no life of achievement. The only thing she shares with Hillary is ambition and reproductive organs – and that’s hardly enough to earn respect.

    Hillary never winked her way into our hearts – she fought her way, she ACHIEVED her way into our hearts.

    This is precisely why I and many others who took a look at the whole ‘PUMA’ movement said no thanks. I was seriously torn as to what I would do this election right up into September… then, we had folks doing this: Trying to foist this unqualified Palin onto us as some sort of proxy.

    Sorry… I’ve learned the hard way that women get fewer chances than men to “get it right”. That’s unfair – and I fight it every day in my own career, but I certainly will not use it as an excuse to “get it wrong”.

  111. CT, good job! I agree that looking at Republicans and Democrats in a new light is one of the positives of the PUMA movement.

  112. britgirls: Gerry has found a home on Fox where she is invited to defend and support the very man who she decried only months ago. Strange bedfellows these days.

  113. My dream for the future would include a new hit tv series by Linda Bloodworth Thomasson with women in politics. It would be funny, brilliant and hard-hitting. It would be a heartbeat and a roaring laugh away from the West wing and the Oval office.

  114. Actually for me the low point for the Obama campaign was Biden squealing like a pig, when Barbara West quoted Marx. Yet Obama could not apologize to McCain when Team OBOT compared him to George Wallace. Obama has taken the term double standard to an all time low. Obama refused to apologize for the lipstick on a pig comment despite the anger of thousands of women. Obama called it phony rage and the MSM agreed. Our outrage was strangled in its cradle. Obama’s failure to apologize and his statement equates to that of the star football player who engages in date rape and later says her protests were phony rage wanted him so bad.

  115. gxm-Suffragists colors were white, purple and gold.

  116. Do you think there is a way to convince Sarah to become a liberal?

    Clinton/Palin 2012 would be AWESOME

    (especially on an indie ticket)

  117. We aren’t walking in Hillary’s shoes. I know I sound like a “concern” tr0ll – I worry about posters here -Afrocity they will be harder on you. This is a vicious depravity never experienced during a political campaign. Donna Brazile came OUT big time – there will be blood in the streets – a dem0cratic operative said this with no compunction whatsoever. That was/is a threat. How many threats have we heard – how many occurences of violent action? Think about the corruption in the D party – it is blantant – they feel omnipotent – the lies are being delivered by the corporate media – daily. The whole BZero candidacy is a LIE. They feel rabid – they are rabid.

    “They” told us what “they” were long ago. Many of us experienced in on former blogs we were a part of for years. We went through several “phases” – denial, anger – rage for me – then cold hard resolve. I do not need a hero to suffer physical harm, to be savaged by the press. I just need to place my vote and pray this menace is defeated Nov. 4 – if not, we shall work to control and bring back ethics, integrity and truth.

    “Sarah does not need Hillary to be her mommy.” Hillary will always be a hero to me – always. She completed this primary facing the most horrid press, tremendous pressures – she did it with grace, intelligence and even wit. She did that for the American public – if she had dropped out we would not have known so many things she brought out by just being a punching bag for the BZero cabal. BZero’s crew knows this – they will always try to punish her.

    I get very emotional about this – they have TOLD us how low and despicable they are – believe them. You don’t play chicken with insane people.

    Congrats to Heidi Li – she was 118 votes last time I checked.

    I’m in WNC – we had our first snow fall and now have lovely black ice – yuck!

  118. Speaking out about the treatment Palin is receiving is speaking out for all women. Comparing Palin and HRC is neither here nor there.

  119. afrocity, on October 28th, 2008 at 9:03 am Said:
    We should go nude. They have effectively stripped us anyway. Can you just see millions of naked woman and men protesting, I love it.

    _________

    Not if you’ve seen how much weight I’ve gained sitting by the computer refreshing Riverdaughter ever ten seconds for the last 10 months.

  120. lisadawn82: Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  121. Ally, on October 28th, 2008 at 9:26 am Said:

    Sarah Palin is the anti-Hillary.

    This is the thing that kills me. These women could not be more different, yet they were both ripped to shreds. How many times have we heard, “I’ll vote for a woman … just not THAT one.”

    That perfect candidate they’re waiting for doesn’t exist.

  122. this is spot on. I mentioned to fif last night that what bothers me even more about Hillary stumping for that fraud is the fact that she doesn’t speak up against the continued rampant sexism aimed at palin.

  123. I have lost my patience with women that fail to support other women. I do not give a damn what your ideology is. Gender based attacks are not funny nor are they legitimate. Sen. Clinton as the leading female politician in this country has a responsibility to speak out against it. I love Hillary, but if she does not condemn it, she is condoning it, and that goes for Obama and the Dems. If you condone it you are legitimizing it. This election has been a real eye opener. There is truly no political party that supports women and unfortunately all those post feminist college students will feel the effects of the open misogyny in the work place for another generation.

  124. Lisadawn, but if we went nude the MSM would cover it. Or we could all wear old fashioned bloomer and lipstick. Then come together and burn our bras in a huge bonfire. Someone have a donkey pinata labeled DNC and when we strike it lipstick falls out instead of candy.

  125. myiq2xu, on October 28th, 2008 at 9:22 am

    My mistake. I thought it was directed to me since I was the only one saying she didn’t need to fight for Palin.

  126. jvsp, on October 28th, 2008 at 9:28 am Said:

    Speaking out about the treatment Palin is receiving is speaking out for all women. Comparing Palin and HRC is neither here nor there.

    *************

    Yep!

  127. Ally: There you go. There is no way that Sarah is the anti-Hillary. There are many ways to be successful in life. HRC is on a path particularly suited to her “god-given potential”. Sarah is on a similar but different path that fits her “god-given potential”. Sarah did some amazing things in AK. HRC did some amazing things as 1st Lady and Sen. I can admire and support both of these women without any need to diminish either of them. I think Pat J. has repeated it so often and so truly on this thread—this is not about Sarah or HRC—this is about women; this is about creating an environment where all women feel that getting in the political arena is doable and honorable if they choose to do so without fear they will be trashed because they are women.

  128. palin about to be on cnbc, for anyone who cares

  129. In MN, a Repub committee sent out a campaign mailer that (truthfully) in comic book style, decried Al Franken’s (Dem candidate for Senate) earlier careers in awful misogynistic writing. WELL: you’d think someone noosed up Sarah Palin on his garage CA) or turned Hillary Clinon into a C— t-shirt or nutcracker!
    (airports).
    But NO: The Repub candidate (Coleman) has joined state DFL leaders in condemning the mailing, urged the creators to destroy unmailed copies, and/but now the Dems want Coleman to apologize on behalf of the Repubs,
    and cease his efforts to become NRSC chair.
    They’re all weighing in: Mondale, the state auditor, Rep. Ellison: all of whom have maintained absolute silence on continued persecution of Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. Don’cha love those Dems?

  130. See this is analogous to African American’s standing by while Condeleeza Rice, Clarence Thomas, Alan Keyes and Colin Powell were called sell outs or Uncle Tom’s because they are with the GOP. That is why I find their sudden “love” for Colin P. laughable. CP endorsed BO to undo the collateral damage on his legacy with AA’s since he was on the outs with the GOP.

    I don’t need Sarah Palin to become a liberal to love her. I don’t think our gender or race should be for sale to the highest bidder.

  131. RD-Great post! This one needs to make the rounds!

    My own experience – a friend and I had a “falling out” over NObama. When Sarah was nominated, my friend called me saying finally we could agree on something, that this choice was so wrong because Sarah wasn’t prepared to lead, was dangerous, blah, blah, blah! Although, I knew this was my opportunity to renew the friendship, there was no way that I could enter into the bashing of another woman! And, my friend would call herself a “feminist.” It’s just wrong, immoral!

  132. Feminism has died if this election coverage is any indication.

  133. Ally,

    starting and running a successful business

    serving as Mayor

    serving as Governor

    raising 5 children

    No, these are not accomplishments at all.

    Ally, you are pathetic.

  134. AMEN RD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    You can switch political parties but you can never switch chromosomes.

  135. Of course MLK said it perfectly!

  136. purplefinn, ct: The new light on the Repubs. Agree. One of the good things for me is that I have always been a diehard Dem; my older sister always a diehard Repub. We just never talked politics. She was so happy when I told her about my decision to vote Repub. in this election. It has opened up a whole new line of communication. She even changed her attitude toward HRC. Sort of a personal best for me.

  137. Jangles, great comment at 9:37.

  138. MAWM – you forgot to mention going up against her own party big time…. defeating an incumbent gov of her own party and getting several other members fined for corruption….. Thats the biggest selling point for me…. we need more of that in DC, imho.

  139. Pat there are not enough cemeteries in the world to bury the causalities from this election.

    Feminism Died
    Journalism Died
    The DNC Died

    Racism has reared its ugly head and arms, feet, legs, pinky finger…

  140. Okay, put Hillary aside for a moment. Where is Michelle Obama who wants to be First Lady? Where is our female speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi? Where are the other women in congress who have a ready made forum unavailable to the rest of us? Where are these women we took such pride in electing to speak for us?

    Where are the Toni Morrison’s and Doris Kearns Goodwin who write so eloquently and also maintain a platform to express their outrage at this treatement? Where are the Gloria Steinem’s who took the male hierarchy to task for this same treatment that has not disappeared? Where are they?

    Guarding their flanks and holding their positions to what, someday coming out and decrying these outrages. The time is now.

    No more excuses!

  141. Pat according to Michelle she does not watch political coverage (which is a lie). In my opinion Michelle is the larger villain in this piece. She is the first to paint AA’s as victims and insert race baiting into the campaign.

  142. I do not wish to see my remarkable granddaughters referred to as whores or c*nts because they seek to make the world a better place. I want their way paved now, not someday, to ensure that when that time comes they are measured by their passion and integrity and not by the size of their bra cup.

    I want them to know that when the time came to speak out their sisterhood was heard loud and clear.

    No more excuses!

  143. Obama just said in PA== “After Decades Of Broken Politics in Washington..”

    See this is a backhanded indictment of the Clintons. Why Hillary stomps for Obama is beyond me.

    The Change we need speeches are so fake and empty. How any intelligent person can vote for Obama is beyond me. he has been speaking for 10 minutes and he hasn’t said a damn thing of substance. He has already used teh word CHANGE 72 times.

  144. afrocity, the lack of substance regarding Obama has been the deal breaker for me from day one!

  145. Look at the comment I just found over on Jeff Schreiber’s blog, “America’s Right”:

    “The question is whether enough Americans understand what’s at stake in this election and, if they do, whether they care.”

    OH WE CARE ENOUGH, but many of us has not received the information that we need to make an informed decision. The media made the decision of what we should know and who we should pick. So I blame the media for being bought. I blame the Democrat Superdelegates for being bought, I blame the DNC for being corrupt and I blame Obama for thinking we are all so stupid to begin with.

    Somehow, we will prevail and McCain will win. And it will be because of the Hillary Supporters known as PUMAs.

  146. Anyone getting in the Holiday spirit yet?

    ‘Twas the night before elections and all through the town, tempers were flaring, emotions all up and down! I, in my bathrobe with a cat in my lap. Had cut off the TV tired of political crap. When all of a sudden there arose such a noise, I peered out of my window saw Obama and his boys. They had come for my wallet they wanted my pay, to give to the others who had not worked a day!
    He snatched up my money and quick as a wink. Jumped back on his bandwagon as I gagged from the stink. He then rallied his henchmen who were pulling his cart, I could tell they were out to tear my country apart! ‘ On Fannie, on Freddie, On Biden and Ayers! On Acorn, On Pelosi’ He screamed at the pairs!They took off for his cause and as he flew out of sight, I heard him laugh at the nation who wouldn’t stand up and fight!

  147. Jangles, at 9:52 am Said:

    “She was so happy when I told her about my decision to vote Repub. in this election. It has opened up a whole new line of communication. She even changed her attitude toward HRC. Sort of a personal best for me.”

    Congratulations!

  148. Some should start wearing t- shirts that say “if SP is a cunt, so is your wife, daughter, mother and sister”

  149. BPD: That was wonderful! Very creative!

  150. Sarah and Hillary are the anti-Obama, and I love ‘em both.

  151. Had a coworker start on Palin yesterday. You know, the “I can’t stand her”, “she’s stupid” stuff. I asked her, “Do you really think she is getting treated fairly here? Do you remember how we all sat here in anger and dismay at Hillary’s treatment?” No comment.

    Well now she’s no longer looking at me so I continue, “What is different now? Is it because she’s a republican? How on earth can you justify her treatment? This blatant misogyny is not right no matter WHO it is.” No comment.

    Well she is pi$$ed at me now, tough sh*t.

  152. I just turned on the tv to get the latest news and there was The One staring back at me. Is there any escape?

  153. Unfortunately, Hillary’s silence is perceived as complicit in the Obama campaign’s misogyny. We all know that she is not complicit but for all practical purposes, for political purposes, she is.

  154. Welcome to America, Palin is prejudiced against because she’s a woman, Obama because he’s black, McCain because he’s old. It’s all a part of the dumbing down of politics and American culture in general.

    Most of us can see through it and see these candidates who they are based on their records and statements on the record. Saying Palin would get her training on the job as you have inferred is enough to shut the book on her. There were many a fine female candidate out there who didn’t need on the job training.

    To say her political instincts are great is to play into the dumbing down theory and extreme right wing tendencies – which does nothing for the women’s movement.

    But you may also have a point here because the masses who actually control the electorate are getting dumber by the day and may need a politician who can speak their language. The only thing Palin hasn’t proven yet is whether her lowest common denominator approach is a tactic and that there is actually a qualified leader under her home spun charm. If I saw a hint of that I’d be right there with you.

    Agree on the misogyny disagree on the Palin praising.

  155. BPD, :smile:

    “They had come for my wallet they wanted my pay, to give to the others who had not worked a day!” CEOs of failed corporations?

  156. No more excuses!

  157. I cant believe people buy this bullshit obama spews…. It’s like 18 hallmark cards merged together

  158. Sarah Palin is a qualified candidate for VP in my estimation. She is also a real human being. I will vote McPalin. I feel McCain is a real person too and while I do not agree with him or Sarah on a lot of things, they are my choice.

    I cannot see myself voting for Nancy Pelosi, Claire, Selibus(sp), you know – those rabid supporters of the BZero. Would it not be reverse discrimination to just vote by gender and not consider qualifications?

    Would that be called genderism? I expect more from a female – simply because we have always been capable of ‘multi tasking” – we are hard wired to do it. Not all of us take advantage of this wiring though and some of us are sheeples. Hey, it’s not easy being really really capable – it’s a level of conscienciousness that brings much more responsibility with it. Not all our XX sisters use it. XY can be trained – if they want it – it is a most welcome trait I have rarely seen. I am much harder on myself and other females. I think I always will be because we can Do Better. That does not make superior – just better.

  159. BPD: I love your comments! We need a good giggle every now and then. Refreshing to say the least.

  160. ink must be running on his notecards from the rain…. he’s bumbling and stumbling again

  161. BPD said: “It’s like 18 hallmark cards merged together”

    Except that Hallmark has a sense of humor.

  162. I have him on mute. God bless whoever invented that button.

  163. Ally, on October 28th, 2008 at 9:26 am Said:

    Sarah Palin has none of that. There is no life of achievement. The only thing she shares with Hillary is ambition and reproductive organs – and that’s hardly enough to earn respect.

    Ally’s probably long gone, but I have to speak up for Sarah.

    Compare these two candidates. One goes door-to-door in her home town (towing her kid behind her in a wagon) personally talking to voters about her bid to be on the City Council.

    Sarah’s mother-in-law said people doubted Sarah Palin when she ran for City Council, but that her daughter-in-law had a “singular focus.”

    “She was out there with [then-young son] Track, pulling him around from house to house in a wagon,” she said.

    Sarah strikes me as a hard worker, a doer. Everything she’s accomplished has been as a result of her own effort. She’s no Hillary, but she does impress me.

    The other candidate runs unopposed for State Senate by having his people knock his opponents off the ballot by challenging every signature.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-070403obama-ballot-archive,0,5693903.story?page=1

  164. BPD at 10:06 – Excellent!!

  165. Is it tomorrow night that he has purchased 1/2 hour of airtime to bore us all to death?

  166. palin rally streaming on cnn for those that cant stomach obama

  167. Pat, that’s one of my most valued inventions of the 20th Century. I have used it most effectively when watching football and W. I imagine it’s still difficult to watch Obama even on mute. I can’t go there.

  168. Pat Johnson, on October 28th, 2008 at 10:16 am Said:

    Is it tomorrow night that he has purchased 1/2 hour of airtime to bore us all to death?
    _______________________________________________________

    Don’t worry , Pat. I think it runs head to head with a Lou Dobbs special.

  169. Then I will have a decision to make: Lou or Backtrack? Lou or Backtrack? Lou or Backtrack?

    Hmmm. Something tells me it will be Lou!

  170. Out of lurking. Great post Riverdaughter. This abuse of Palin has been very difficult to look at, or to talk about. My only refuge are a few blogs that I frequent. The hypocritical liberal elite has lost their minds, values, and morals. What is the saddest, is how women are treating another woman even worse than many men. Palin has grit, to be able to stand up to this. The only women that seem to speaking up for Palin, are Republican women. Where are the so-called liberal women? They disgust me, for their hypocrisy and not speaking out against the sexism. Lady Lynn de Rothschild is one of the only democrats that I can think of, who has spoken out in Palin’s defense. Where is Ferraro?

    RD, I feel sad that Senator Clinton has not spoken out against the sexism and misogyny, especially since she has been a proponent of women’s rights for so many years. Perhaps, you could send this column to her?

    Thank you again, for another timely posting.

  171. This election has not only been dirty but obscene as well. And the amount of money wasted on nominating these two candidates is sinful. Reform is needed along with term limits and a shortening of the campaign season. Almost two years of having to be subjected to this is a crime.

    I can think of a zillion places that this money could have been spent for the common good. Instead we wind up with two inadequate choices that will leave a bad taste in our mouths for years to come.

    A ridiculous way to elect a leader.

  172. Pat Johnson, on October 28th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    I would like to say that things will be different next time but I am not really sure. Wes Clarke and Hillary are involved in getting more women elected to congress. I think if Mccain wins that will make a big difference with Palin as VP.

  173. BPD

    Can I e-mail your rhyme? This could go viral. You could be the next Joe the Plumber.

    Yikes! Don’t ever tell anyone your real name!

  174. Sarah speaking now. Whether you agree or not with her politics, this lady is very comfortable in her own skin. A lady with a lot of true grit!

  175. I just released the mute button. Sarah is a natural.

  176. brit – lol i should have been up front… i stole it from another site

    i guess i just pulled a biden lol

  177. speaking of stealing lines…. I just remembered my favorite line from the primaries

    that’s not change you can believe in, that’s change you can xerox

  178. Sarah and “distribution of wealth” theme. Crowd is reacting!

  179. RD – it’s about time.

    Hillary has been complicit in this abuse. She is not the woman I believed her to be. It should have been stopped long ago at any expense.

    As someone who has “stepped in it” at great risk, I have to say, it is not easy, you may lose your standing at work, but the “end justifies the means”. No one should have to beg for respect, they should demand it for themselves and others.

    Hillary will never be able to ask for it for herself as she let this travesty go down. And for what, someone whose entire platform is built on lies, deceit, and the intent to destroy the United States of America. It is a heavy burden that she has on her shoulders, but she is capable and could still end this nightmare.

    She has 7 days and counting ……………………………

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  180. Carol: XX00

  181. The Hillary stuff is difficult. She took more misogyny
    that any human being could have survived– so I have no idea how she did it. Now Palin is doing the same.
    That in itself speaks volumes for both of them.
    I artfully dodge Hillary whenever she appears in any media. She is doing whatever she is doing and she’s off my radar. From what I understand, she has not taken any cheap shots at Palin. And obviously Camp
    Psycho-Obama is pounding on her to attack Palin on any and all grounds. That also speaks volumes that Hillary is not going after Palin in any cheap way.
    Like I say, I haven’t been watching Hillary, but I wonder if she hasn’t made a comment like “Palin is an accomplished” public servant or something like that.
    I know Bill Clinton did.

  182. Sarah playing big time to the crowd!

  183. She’s got incredible political intuition and she’s a quick study.

    I watched Palin at that rally in VA yesterday, and she was going off-script (“rogue” for the timid), and her instincts and natural talent are undeniable. In crowd of 15,000 on a chilly night, she was CONNECTING with real people. She was not holding forth and preaching, she was not “educating” them from on high. She was speaking directly to them, with charm and detail, and they loved it. I don’t get it–she is really…likable.

    I think that’s the problem. There’s only room for one Supreme Ruler and King of the Narcissists in this election, and he gets quite angry when some girl comes along and steals the spotlight.

  184. Nobody steals Obama’s spotlight and gets away with it.

  185. Just saw both Obama and Palin.

    Obama supporters say OBAMA OBAMA

    Palin supporters say USA USA USA

    HMMM!!!

  186. From US Magazine:

    Hillary Clinton: Palin “Composed, Effective” During Debate
    Friday October 3, 2008

    ………………As for Republican Gov. Sarah Palin, “I think she’s very good. I always thought she would do well,” Clinton said. “It’s amazing. She’s been thrust into the national spotlight with very little preparation.

    “All things considered, you saw a very composed and effective debater last night,” Clinton said……………

  187. LMAO…. did you guys hear McCain quote OBama as saying “blah blah blah”

    I LOLed

  188. Hillary will never be able to ask for it for herself as she let this travesty go down. And for what, someone whose entire platform is built on lies, deceit, and the intent to destroy the United States of America. It is a heavy burden that she has on her shoulders, but she is capable and could still end this nightmare.

    So you think that by Hillary making a speech about the sexism would end all of it. It will never work. Why is Hillary being blamed for it? It is not her fault that Palin is being treated like she was. Hillary went through it now Palin gets to walk the same line and maybe next time she won’t be too quick to judge.

  189. Thanks Purplefinn for the Hillary quote on Palin.

  190. The saddest thing for me has been the abuse that is coming from other women. Hillary has been quite clear in her respect for Sarah’s accomplishments, and her unwillingness to attack her. I know some people want more from her–for her to stand up in the middle of this circus and condemn the misogyny, but she didn’t do it for herself either, because she thought it would be perceived as whining, and instead, showed the world her equality by her strength, brilliance and determination. I will not judge her, because I do not know what she has been through or what state she is in now after months of ridicule and fatigue. To stand up and face the blowtorch she would encounter if she spoke out in the midst of this hostility is a lot to ask. It would be heroic indeed, but she’s given so much already, by example, I am willing to cut her some slack. She is working tirelessly for down ticket Dems, focused on building from within. I saw a quote from her autobiography this week, and she said, “It is both my nature and upbringing to change the system from within.” That’s why she and Bill went into public service, & party politics, in the rebellious sixties. A Dem Party friend of mine who knows her in NY state politics said Hillary is focused on bringing more women into politics, and changing the culture internally.

    If that makes me a Hillary apologist, so be it. Her work is far from complete, and I’m proud of the trail she has blazed at great personal expense.

  191. Even though, Senator Clinton has not spoken out against the sexism and misogyny towards Palin, her silence towards the matter also speaks volumes. She is not joining in, with the battering, which is also positive. She may not be able to say much now, but by taking the high road, and acting respectful, she is also acting in an admirable way. She is sticking to the issues, and is not making personal attacks, so I do have to give her that.

  192. angelasmith:

    There’s been a lot of discussion about conservative women like Palin, and that cracking the glass ceiling is only OK if a woman is pro-choice. News 10 NBC asked Sen. Clinton if she shares that position. “I think it’s exciting that there is a woman vice-presidential candidate,” said Sen. Hillary Clinton, (D) New York. “Women from all walks of life and from different experiences, and certainly holding a wide range of beliefs, have made progress. I just want to see that progress continue. Obviously I support a different agenda, and will work hard in this campaign to sustain that agenda.”
    Sen. Clinton said Sen. McCain and Governor Palin don’t offer the kind of leadership that America is both yearning for, and needs right now. But she respects what Palin has accomplished. “You see, I don’t think there is a contradiction between applauding someone’s success and disagreeing with that person.”

  193. No surprisingly, The Nation, criticizes Clinton for saying anything positive about Palin:

    posted by John Nichols on 08/30/2008 @ 1:43pm

    ST. PAUL — Hillary Clinton, after a Democratic National Convention week of scrambling to be on-message for the Barack Obama campaign, veered off message to celebrate the selection of a woman as the Republican candidate for vice president.

    “We should all be proud of Governor Sarah Palin’s historic nomination, and I congratulate her and Senator McCain,” declared Clinton. “While their policies would take America in the wrong direction, Governor Palin will add an important new voice to the debate.” ……………..

    http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/351275

  194. Hillary is on one side and Palin is on the other. Hillary, from what I’ve understood, is treating Palin with respect.

    As Downticket points out, Hillary can not be saddled with the mysoginistic swirl that has descended on this campaign season.

    She rose above it in the primaries and she is above it now. She did not make this hate-nightmare appear and she can not dissolve it by waving a magic wand.

    She is comporting herself with dignity in this matter
    (from my limited understanding of it) and thus is
    showing by example.

  195. nice one mac.. “no one will delay the world series with an infomercial when I am president”

  196. fif: I have a trivial comment, and excuse me for being a picky little pedant. An apologist is not one who apologizes, but : “one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something.:(Merriam -Webster). And that’s what I thought you were doing in your excellent post. You ARE an apologist for Hillary, and that’s a good thing!

  197. BPD, :smile:

  198. Where are the Gloria Steinem’s who took the male hierarchy to task for this same treatment that has not disappeared? Where are they?

    Pat: Gloria Steinem was one of the first women to write a hit piece about Palin in the LA Times, giving permission with her authority for all liberal women to trash Palin. If Steinem and others had clarified the difference the way Hillary did, other women would have been more reluctant to smear her.

  199. urge: thanks for the clarification :), that’s how I meant it. She’s given me so much, I do not feel I have the right to ask for more right now. It would be great, but I respect her choice, because this is a life-long battle for her and what have I done by comparison, to sit here in my living room and tell her to get out there and subject herself to even more vitriol? I have no idea how she’s lasted this long. I’d be in a padded room by now.

  200. If we want to get philosophical, Jesus spoke out against the money changers. In other words, a risk taker. Sometimes this demands nothing less.

  201. I’m not limiting my comments to misogyny.

    Hillary and Bill should come forward and tell the truth about everything. That is what a true leader does. Rain or Shine, Truth at any cost.

    They don’t hide and comply.

    The United States of America is on the verge of dying. Someone needs to tell the truth.

  202. LMAO…. did you guys hear McCain quote OBama as saying “blah blah blah”

    Seriously?!! LOL! I have described his words that very same way myself. McCain can be hilarious.

    I hate to leave, but work beckons.

    Have a great day everyone. One week from today…

  203. I read the Gloria Steinem piece… I am thinking perhaps there was more I didn’t see. But I believe I read the whole thing. I had no problem with what Steinem said. She disagreed with Palin on policy.

    I disagreed with the bizarre jump in logic that Steinem took to find that Obama would be in the best interests of women.

    But I did not feel that Steinem was underhanded in her work.

    I have seen other women go after Palin in a very sexist, misogynistic way that has left me dumbfounded and then annoyed and then just going
    “pffft” as I do whenever I come across the Obama-cultists.

  204. Bill will be in PA tomorrow beating the drum for The One.

  205. angelasmith: you can google the Eve Ensler piece, which was much worse. It was a patch work of the smears that were circulating at the time, coupled with fear mongering about the end of the world if someone as horrible as Palin is elected. Ensler is a leading feminist and author of “The Vagina Monologues.”

    Katha Pollitt also wrote a piece. I think Paglia actually defended Palin.

  206. I’m late to the what color to wear discussion. I’ve been planning to wear orange on Nov 4 since it is th ePuma color. Anyone else?

  207. happeningnow@fox.com is asking for feed back on the Sarah Palin hung in effigy halloween display. They want to know if you think it’ a hate crime or not

  208. The diabetes really hit me yesterday and I didn’t have a chance to get here until now. I missed 6 posts!

    and Angienc’s return!

    I think that this election has galvanized people. The old black and white views no longer hold: dems and reps are no longer 100% evil to each other. There has been thoughful discourse within blogs and between bloggers of different leanings. This was not true 4 years ago. We placed ourselves behind our battlements and did not venture beyond to see what the “enemy” was thinking. Had we done so we may have been able to join forces to prevent a war.

    Because we have two parties each party must represent the various colors of philosophys within it. Republicans just like dems are not happy with their party and there are many discussions about it being too right or left.

    This election has provided a common ground that allows for a basis upon which discussions can take place between two parties which have always had to work together from a position of animosity – which never allows for great and necessary changes because one always has to win, to have the power.

    There will never be a 100% consensus between the two parties or even within the parties themselves. It probably would be better to have a system in which the degrees of difference within a party are represented by different parties, ie. Germany which has 6 parties in parliament. These parties represent the variuos degrees of difference between a central philosophy, and allow for better, more realistic representation. And because the country needs to be governed, dialogue and compromise are required, which result in better representation of what the people want.

    I find it a good thing that republicans can veture here and be part of a discussion, and I’ve seen dem’s post on republican sites as well. Dialogue can only lead to greater understanding of the people we live with everyday, who may differ from us in their politics, but share the same issues. This understanding in turn, can direct our parties and politicians to better represent the people and take care of their needs.

  209. angelasmith, on October 28th, 2008 at 11:05 am Said:

    ……….I read the Gloria Steinem piece… I am thinking perhaps there was more I didn’t see. But I believe I read the whole thing. I had no problem with what Steinem said. She disagreed with Palin on policy…………

    **************

    I agree that it was mostly on policy.and nothing on “lack of intelligence” or misogyny. But she made some assertions that I’m not sure would pass the “fact check.” I am looking for follow-up statements by Steinem, but haven’t found any yet.

  210. ooking for integrity: I admire your optimism.

  211. hey pat I just put up a post about PA on my new blog (((shameless plug!!))) if anyone wants to check it out. speaking of which, some little bird told me that the haters nipping at our heels were saying that I was leaving the confluence…BWAHAHAHAAA!!!!! NO, we’re just branching out, franchising….there are so many good writers here we’re overflowing. and to those gossiping ex conflucians….err..up yours!! :)

    http://garychapelhill.wordpress.com/2008/10/28/non-sequitur-of-the-dayplus-pa-is-still-in-play/

    apparently mccain is campaigning there out of desperation.

  212. looking for integrity, glad you’re feeling better. Well said. I too would like to see this:

    “It probably would be better to have a system in which the degrees of difference within a party are represented by different parties, ie. Germany which has 6 parties in parliament. These parties represent the variuos degrees of difference between a central philosophy, and allow for better, more realistic representation. And because the country needs to be governed, dialogue and compromise are required, which result in better representation of what the people want.”

  213. I know many of us are afraid to put yard signs up , others are silent because they fear for thier jobs, or up sets with friends and families . Hillary’s not the only one whose silent …but as always, she held to a higher standard than anyone else. I guess that’s the price of leadership. I think she’s waiting to see who “wins” . If MCain gets in , the press will continue to slam Palin and then you’ll see Hill’s guns blazing . If Barry is installed, then you’ll see her fighting for her political life. …But that will include fighting Barry….Barry will insist on it .Such as she is, Hill’s all we got on the national level at this time. I’m resevering my judgement for after the election, if indeed, there is one.

  214. Pat you make an impressive list of silent voices we would long to hear and do not.

    My understanding of Team Sarah is that it is all about women standing up not just for Sarah but for all women. It seems to me that this kind of concerted and focused action on behalf of a woman candidate and all women is exactly what we are all longing for from the Democrats—and not getting. I think what gets me the most about this picture is just that. We did not hear Dems standing for HRC and we do not hear them now. We do not hear NOW or NORAL. We do not hear Emily’s List. Do people even realize that some of our past presidents were NOT college graduates?

  215. Pat Johnson

    I agree:

    Term Limits
    Speniding limits and from public funds only (like McCain) – from the get-go
    equal commercial time
    something must be done about the media representation-so that it adheres to the first amendment but isn’t overwhelmingly partisan
    DOJ and other oversiht bodies related to campaigning must have equal representation of parties

  216. Aghh…gotta go, but keep seeing tidbits. Did anyone respond to Ally at 9:26?

    Sarah Palin has none of that. There is no life of achievement. The only thing she shares with Hillary is ambition and reproductive organs – and that’s hardly enough to earn respect.

    Ally, as myiq said, please list your accomplishments. First, HRC was running for PRESIDENT, and had the resume fit for that office–unlike the current nominee. Sarah Palin is running for VP, and does not have the same extensive resume, nor should she be expected to–read some history re: other VP’s. The only reason BO chose Biden is because he is woefully unqualified, and it was hurting him politically.

    Second, for you to say she has “no life accomplishments” is sexist in itself. She has been a successful City Council member, mayor, and now the most popular governor in the country. She manages an $11 billion budget with 29,000 employees, and has negotiated energy contracts with Russia, China & Canada. As RD said, she has impressive political instincts. She was thrown into this volatile campaign with little notice, and has his the ground running, drawing tens of thousands of people to her rallies. Do you think that doesn’t require skill and talent? And while she was doing all of this, she is also the wife and mother of a large happy family, an accomplished outdoorswoman and a marathon runner.

    So tell me, pompous Ally, what have you done to compare? Do you realize that most presidents were governors first? Don’t drop in here and pontificate and insult us until you’ve done some actual research please. You prove the point of this post: you reduce her to a dumb sex object. Congratulations–you are a woman denigrating another strong and successful woman. Shame on you.

    NOW I’m off to work!

  217. Thanks so much for this post. I have had the same feeling I had when neither Gore nor Kerry took the fight for the fraud in the elections they were part of to the bitter end. Seems like if you are a senator you will only fight up to a point, and then at the end of the day, win or lose, you are still a senator and your life will continue on comfortably. Oh and your supporters, well there’s always next time.
    I hate that Bill and Hillary treat Obama like a legitamate candidatee and I appreciate someone else saying so!

  218. Does it stike any one as particular unAmerican that many folks fear speaking or showing their support for some one other than Obama?

    I keep feeling like I’m living in some kind of fascist state where I have to be careful who I say what to … this does not feel like the USA at times.

  219. purplefinn, on October 28th, 2008 at 10:54 am Said:
    No surprisingly, The Nation, criticizes Clinton for saying anything positive about Palin:

    There has been one constant in this election.
    The Nation criticizes Clinton.

    The best you can say about their year long Barry support is they were so eager to criticize Clinton, they didn’t look into Obama’s background in any depth.

  220. everyone

    please forgive my typos (spelling etc.). Working on launching a product and web site and trying to catch up here!!

  221. dakinikat, I hate living like this. Even though I’m naturally on the shy side, I’m usually very outspoken about political and social issues. It’s downright creepy that I feel I can’t speak my mind in public.

  222. I ‘m trying to stand up more myself ,and other women , in my every day life ….and being pissed off about the misogyny helps there alot .

    Basically it means that discrimination, disrespect, misogyny directed towards Sarah Palin is really discrimination, disrespect, misogyny on all women. It’s just delivered by proxy.

    Very true .

  223. Joe Gaffe Biden speaking now. Or shouting. Or lying. Take your pick.

  224. The atmosphere is so poisoned by fear that most people are hesitant to announce their choice. You cannot blame them since the intimidation so far appears real.

  225. Dakinikat said:

    “Does it stike any one as particular unAmerican that many folks fear speaking or showing their support for some one other than Obama?

    I keep feeling like I’m living in some kind of fascist state where I have to be careful who I say what to … this does not feel like the USA at times.”

    Yes, yes it does. My mom, who lived through the Nazi and Soviet occupations and escaped here reads all the blogs: RD, RCP, NoQ, JSND, PumaPac and many of the blogs which are still posting via JSND, as well as Patriot Room, and a few of the republican blogs, cried last night. She feels we don’t see what’s happening.

  226. I pray for Joey to make another one for the team! Go Joe.

  227. How does anyone take Biden seriously? This is a man that said he would be honored to run on a ticket with McCain…. and now, ever since he was named VP candidate, John McCain is suddenly the worst person in the world? I mean really…. REALLY… how can you take him seriously?

  228. gxm17, on October 28th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Thank you for being so honest… while I’m trying to stand up, I don’t work in a sea of Obots! …. that would be very difficult .

  229. Joe Biden, the Billy Mays of politics.

  230. Pat Johnson, on October 28th, 2008 at 11:29 am Said:
    Joe Gaffe Biden speaking now. Or shouting. Or lying. Take your pick.

    lol! He thinks he’s the new Dick Cheney!!

  231. votermom, I’m still trying to get my hands on a PUMA sweatshirt (the sports line) for election day. I’ve found a magenta one which I’m hoping will be close enough to purple and I’m thinking of snatching it up.

  232. katiebird: Orange Glo! Orange Glo! Orange Glo!

  233. Mainly lurking…every day.
    Helping at the local Rep. office and talking to anyone that will listen about choosing John McCain and Sarah Palin and about PUMA.
    Thank you for the enlightening posts; I’ve learned a lot about politics and have become a better informed voter form reading them and the comments.
    I have also registered at Team Sarah.

    Hechos y no palabras!
    Deeds, not words!

    Go Coflucians!
    Go PUMAs!

    McCain/Palin ’08

    Hillary Clinton/Sarah Palin ’12

    Sarah Palin/ ’16

  234. I understand that Hillary/Bill campaign for downticket Dems. But when Hill came to E KY to campaign for Lunsford & others, not one of the candidates even mentioned Obama’s name, while Hillary 4 times praised Obama. My newspaper specifically made this point.

    This is my problem. I won’t lose the respect Hillary earned from me this primary, and she gained a reputation as a tough leader, but she is no longer exhibiting that leadership. If Obama loses, she may or may not be respected by most Democrats, but she has lost a lot among Indys and Repubs by working so very hard for Obama, considerably more than is customary. I want women to quit sacrificing themselves for some man-leader, and I fear that is what Hillary is doing.

  235. We saw “the new politics” in the Dem. primary. I really wish that McCain Palin would talk about this and/or Hannity, Fox, Laura Ingraham. We are seeing more of that new politics in the use of government offices to “smack down” Joe the Plumber. We see it writ large in all of Obama’s past alliances. To see the congress, the presidency and the fourth estate all held in the hands of an inexperienced and highly questionable man is bone chilling. Look what George Bush did to this country. I think Obama could be much worse.

  236. Great post! I took the poll -and answered with a resounding YES. Went to dinner with my 21 yro dtr and her boyfriend, 31 yro. I mention the age becuz dtr will be a first-time voter this year and, well, she’s very “influenced” by this “older” guy. (He’s a great guy don’t get me wrong.)

    He said “Sarah Palin is stupid.” We argued a bit, then dinner came. While dtr and I were in bathroom, he said to my hubby “I didn’t know Sheri was pro-life.” God! Just because I stood up for Sarah and defended the “stupid” remark. (I am pro-choice.) I sent them an email with pictures of young people wearing offensive t-shirts (you all know the ones). The worst of it was the young women wearing them. I sent other things and notations and The Bitch You Tube made for Hillary.

    As for HRC – I don’t know what to think. I DO believe that they will tear into both of them (Hill and Bill) if BO loses. They have already started it. I heard something yesterday since BO’s polls have dropped – something inferring it was due to Clinton. Can’t quote it here becuz I can’t remember; but, I said ” here we go.”

    But, I understand RD’s disappointment in her. But, for me, it’s a wait and see sort of situation. It won’t do any good for her to throw her political career away becuz then she can’t do the good that we want her to. I expect her to be POTUS in the near future. Sometimes there has to be a strategy. If she stands up and fights now, she’ll throw it all away – because she will need all of the BO voters. When you fall down, you pick yourself back up.

  237. Interesting post. I agree on uniting to fight the sexism and misogyny. It’s what I’ve been doing at my blog for the past few weeks.

    However, I do think it’s possible to think that Sarah Palin is not “smart” in the traditional sense that we are used to from a politician. She went to five colleges and had five children. Her experience is altogether different than McCain’s, Biden’s, or Obama’s in that regard, so it stands to reason she would turn out different.

    That said, I also think it’s possible to think that’s actually refreshing, and to recognize her many intelligences, including her practical intelligence, which is something sorely missing in today’s political climate. I agree she is a quick study. I also think she will prove to be a valuable asset to all Americans if elected. She represents a real opportunity for reform within the Republican Party, and most of us here can agree that can only be a good thing. We need good people on both sides of the aisle.

  238. Getting ready, it occurred to me re: Ally at 9:26. Did you even read RD’s post?

    You write: Why in the hell should Hillary be responsible for defending Palin?

    Riverdaughter:
    Basically it means that discrimination, disrespect, misogyny directed towards Sarah Palin is really discrimination, disrespect, misogyny on all women. It’s just delivered by proxy.

    The lack of reading comprehension in this country is a clear sign of the dumbing down of America, and no, Ally, I’m not talking about Sarah Palin.

    I’m feeling quite snarky today.

  239. It is 11:30 and raining like cats and dogs here. I am still in my flannel pj’s, flannel robe, and socks. Could I get anymore pathetic than this? But help me out: as it is getting closer to noon do I get dressed or considering that we are heading into the afternoon, should I just stay in my “evening wear”?

    Like Joan Rivers used to say: why make the bed when you get up in the morning when you will be back in 8 hours. Makes sense to me.

  240. Pat, (giggling)

  241. OMG. I just had a strange thought. I may find in the next few years that the Roberts, Alito supreme court might become the saving of the Republic. I may wind up seeing them in a whole new light like I am seeing Dems in a whole new light.

  242. Afrocity: When a woman strips to burn her bra in 1968, she doesn’t do that 40 years later, at least not in public. I can’t out-PETA the likes the Pamela Anderson et al.

  243. Before I go into work mode, just wanted to say that this is a fantastic post—-thank you, RD. Once again you put our thoughts into words beautifully. I had a go at a friend of my daughters’ about Sarah a few weeks ago. I was shocked at the venom coming from this young woman, and it is something I won’t be hearing again from her. My often lovely girl actually told her friend to shut up.

  244. New post up by dakinikat!

  245. kc, on October 28th, 2008 at 11:45 am Said:
    ….. My often lovely girl actually told her friend to shut up.

    good for her!

  246. anna belle, I disagree. I just don’t see how you become governor of a state without being pretty smart…and I mean in the traditional manner. the obamans and the media want people to think that she made her way to the top by winking at guys and showing some leg. that’s absurd, insulting, and straight out of the sexist handbook. I don’t know what the going to 5 colleges has to do with anything, btw, she certainly wasn’t flunking out of one and moving on to the next. a lot of people transfer from schools…including Obama, who started at the not so prestigious occidental college. the fact that he is not taken to task for this is further proof that there is a double standard. Also the implication that for each child a woman has she gets increasingly stupider (and i’m not implying that is what you are saying, but others have)…is ridiculous.

  247. There’s a NEW POST upstairs now.

  248. Smart is defined as intelligent or shrewd. It is not synonymous with educated. (And, BTW, Palin is NOT uneducated.)

    I’ve known a lot of dim people with advanced degrees. They are ticket punchers. OTOH, I’ve known incredibly gifted people of true genius without college degrees.

    IMO, anyone who says Sarah Palin is dumb is making a stupid and ignorant comment.

  249. Carol
    “The United States of America is on the verge of dying. Someone needs to tell the truth.”

    James Madison stated.
    “I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”

    All this talk about when to stand up, calculations, risks, strategies, while the moment when none of it will matter anyway is approaching, and it will come because no one stood up when one still could.

  250. This post goes with the one above, strangely so.
    Scary that it has happened, especially the Hollywood effigy. RD, I made a comment yesterday but it got stuck in mod mode—that’s a great piece you wrote about that haka.

    Now I understand what that is, or what a haka looks like. Very bizarre piece over at NQ where guess who compares the US to Nazi Germany. Don’t miss that read. Actions we are seeing like what you have reported, or dakinikat above are the sorts of things that happen under fascism, especially the women. Where is MSM? Or any Media?

  251. Just voted in RD’s poll.

    This election has been an eye opener in terms of learning how
    some of the men I’ve know for years really feel about women.

    There have been pleasant surprises. Some of my male business clients were strong HRC supporters and proud of it. In fact, their encouragement may be responsible for influencing my active support of Hillary.

    On the other hand, male friends (former friends now) who I really wouldn’t have expected it from, have taken great delight in Palin (and therefore WOMAN) bashing.
    And we’ve had it out.

    In some cases the hatred and scorn they’ve expressed has been so shocking I’m not sure I can ever l look back.

    I just sent some pro-Sarah articles to a woman who reluctantly supports Obama because she thinks Palin is
    “dumb”.

    Putting together another mailer now for a woman who was horrified to see my McCain/Palin button. She exclaimed, “But I thought you were a Puma!”
    Where to start? *sigh*

  252. PJ you speak for and to me. NO more damn excuses. The evil is misogyny and when it isn’t addressed for the evil that it is then it continues to thrive.

    Like you I have remarkable granddaughters. 7 of them. And I don’t want to see them have to fight this same fight when they are grandmothers.

    NO more damn excuses! Leaders lead! Where the hell are the female members of congress addressing the rampant misogyny in this country?

    Where are the female members of the media addressing the rampant misogyny in this country?

    Where the hell are they? Hiding in a corner for fear that the patriarchs won’t support their careers?

  253. kenoshaMarge-
    Remember Nasty Pelosi said she was too busy to notice sexism, or some such bullshit?
    (grinding teeth)

  254. Let’s stop looking at 2012 as a panacea and concentrate on now! Looking to the future to solve these ills is myopic. The time is now. By 2012 we may all be living a “Handmaiden’s Tale” if we hide this issue under “someday”. Bullshit!

  255. I’m looking outside my office window and it’s snowing in Jersey. Big white fluffy clusters.
    Who took mr summer?!?!

  256. We had a real snow shower here in Wisconsin yesterday RD. Waaay early even for us. I will tolerate frost on the pumpkin but snow is going too far!

    I forgot to tell you what a remarkable post I think this is. It shows guts and insight. Thank you!

  257. Thank you for this post RD. I’m sending it to everyone in my address book, even the Obots and asking them to read it with an open mind and respond back to me. I anticipate some interesting replies.

  258. ***Gee, I don’t know about you guys but I think had I been called a ra*cist, an evil witch, had my votes stolen, my husband sullied, my daughter slandered, my hopes dashed by the party machinations of which I was a member, had my works of service dismissed, watched my husband’s legacy trashed, seen my chances of my name put into nomination ignored, and witnessed an out and out defection of delegates signal their support to my opponent prior to all votes being counted, I guess I would have to honestly admit that they do not want me.

    This frees me to go out and at least make the case for women above party. But this is just me.***

    To say the least. I don’t know, but maybe it’s something more even than her career Hillary is trying to save. Remember Bill Gwatney of Arkansas, a Hillary superdel? Murdered just before the convention. And Stephanie Tubbs Jones, supposedly dead of an aneurysm, but who knows? Also just before the convention. Am I mistaken or were those two going to lead a walk out if Hillary’s name was not put into nomination?

  259. Pat Johnson said:
    ***Gee, I don’t know about you guys but I think had I been called a ra*cist, an evil witch, had my votes stolen, my husband sullied, my daughter slandered, my hopes dashed by the party machinations of which I was a member, had my works of service dismissed, watched my husband’s legacy trashed, seen my chances of my name put into nomination ignored, and witnessed an out and out defection of delegates signal their support to my opponent prior to all votes being counted, I guess I would have to honestly admit that they do not want me.

    This frees me to go out and at least make the case for women above party. But this is just me.***

    To say the least. I don’t know, but maybe it’s something more even than her career Hillary is trying to protect. Remember Bill Gwatney of Arkansas, a Hillary superdel? Murdered just before the convention. And Stephanie Tubbs Jones, supposedly dead of an aneurysm, but who knows? Also just before the convention. Am I mistaken or were those two going to lead a walk out if Hillary’s name was not put into nomination?

  260. Ach – sorry for the double post.

  261. When I hear people say that Sarah Palin is dumb, I reply that it is certainly what the media and the Obama campaign want you to believe. Then, I ask them if they knew about Charlie Gibson’s edited interview and encourage then to read the unedited transcripts. I also mention the different nature of questioning the candidates have experienced…

    That usually quiets them down, around me anyway.

  262. Leisa
    I’ve been distributing those unedited transcripts-I keep copies in my car!
    Last week I did an experiment and tried to read only headlines
    and listen to soundbites. The results were not good.
    The media has succeeded in making Palin look like a fool.
    If I didn’t know better and read so much I may have been sucked in myself.
    They love to replay the “goshdarn” and “golly” stuff-finally the Mac people figured that out and toned it down.
    But the low info busy folks who get their news in bytes
    could easily be led to believe that Palin is as dumb as a post, and that is so far from the truth it makes me want to cry.
    If elected, Sarah Palin could really make a mark for women, if only women would do their homework and give her a chance.

  263. I hear ya, RD. I’m extremely disappointed that Hillary has not spoken out against the treatment of Sarah Palin. I have nothing but admiration for Sarah Palin right now.

  264. Branjor, on October 28th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

    and who can forget Diane Feinstein a Hill supporter, breaking her foot while ” hiking ” just before the convention and decided she couldn’t come to Denver . I didn’t know she was a nature girl .

  265. I suspect Hillary will have many things to say about misogyny after the election. If she spoke out now, the Democratic Party would DESTROY her. I know “I” don’t want that to happen. We NEED Hillary where she is to fight on. No one can deny that she has always supported the rights of women, civil rights and the less fortunate in this country. I don’t blame her one bit for doing what she has to do to keep her job.

    I have to defend Sarah Palin on a daily basis in my home. My husband, who was a Hillary supporter too, REFUSES to vote Republican and he has nothing nice to say about Sarah…which pisses me off ROYALLY and I let him know it. While she represents EVERYTHING I’m against, I must defend her. She’s anti-choice, I’m a rabid PRO-CHOICER. No one has the right to tell women what to do with THEIR WOMBS. I still have to defend her when she’s attacked just because she’s a woman.

    She likes hunting and killing animals, I hate guns and could NEVER kill an animal……though my father and 3 brothers were hunters, I was raised with guns in the house and was forced to eat rabbits, squirrels and deer :(, so it’s not like I don’t “get” the whole gun/hunting thing because I do. I just hate guns and killing animals. That’s just me though….others are entitled to their own opinions on that subject.

    Sarah supports trickle down economics and I think it’s one of the dumbest economic policies EVER and “A Rising Tide Lifts All Boats” makes so much more sense to me. If people have no money to buy things from the wealthy companies, how can the companies trickle ANYTHING down to them???? Trickle Down economics didn’t work for Reagan and Bush and it won’t work now……but I still must defend her when she’s attacked just because she’s a woman. I like Sarah as a woman. I don’t like her politics. She’s a Republican. I’ve been a Democrat since the day I registered to vote 35 years ago, but as a woman, I defend her when she’s attacked. That’s just me.:)

    I can not and will not ever blame Hillary for holding her tongue on this issue during THIS particular, hateful, disgusting Presidential campaign. I love her and Bill and always will.

  266. What I’ve noticed is how much the MSM have tried to goad Hillary into trashing Palin. (I’m thinking specifically of ABC/Cynthia McFadden’s “Nightline” interview.) Time and again, Hillary has refused to take the bait. Instead, she opts to express due regard for the Alaskan Governor.

    I too would like to hear Hillary speak out as well, on this issue. But at the same time, I’m not missing or overlooking the brief remarks she has made in response to Gov. Palin’s veep candidacy.

    I admit, I’m not up on HRC’s latest “BO” itinerary, as I’ve chosen to support MSM’s viewership as little as possible.

    btw – Just (protest) voted this morning, and I feel FAAAAABULOUS!!!!! LOL!

  267. Vickie, on October 28th, 2008 at 1:04 pm Said:
    I suspect Hillary will have many things to say about misogyny after the election. If she spoke out now, the Democratic Party would DESTROY her. I know “I” don’t want that to happen. We NEED Hillary where she is to fight on. No one can deny that she has always supported the rights of women, civil rights and the less fortunate in this country. I don’t blame her one bit for doing what she has to do to keep her job.

    —————
    I agree Vickie.

  268. I wanna know why hasn’t the Dimocratic nominee or his running mate, made any statements in protest of the uncivil attacks leveled against Gov. Palin. I mean they have the spotlight and the biggest bullhorn. But instead I have to watch the media have one “stop the presses!” moment after the other when there’s even the slightest appearance of mistreatment towards “His Worthlessness”? Puh-leeze.

  269. Palin’s ignorance is amply displayed in her non-answers to Couric and her constitutional ignorance of the role and power of the Vice President. The VP does not control or run the US Senate, the VP breaks ties. For a job with such limited powers it shouldn’t be that tough for a governor to keep them straight. Whatever tasks the President sees fit to delegate to the VP as a political surrogate, they do not change the VP’s constitutional role and actual power.

    Her clothes and sex appeal have no real bearing on her worth as a candidate, except that charismatic politicians tend to be more successful than boring ones. What does have bearing on the election is her fraudulent claims to being middle class and the GOP’s effort to trick workers into supporting the same people who do the laying off and the outsourcing of American jobs to boost CEO pay and shareholder gains. She is a millionaire and so is John McCain. The middle class is not composed of millionaires. Most people do not make $250,000 a year and to say Obama will tax “most people” is a lie. Most people can’t afford $150,000 on clothes, and for her to sell her “just plain folks” shtick is hypocrisy after blowing that much on duds while people are really scrimping. She and her party think it’s just super to cut capital gains taxes that are mostly paid by the rich and leave intact payroll taxes paid by workers who have no golden parachutes and no stock options. Sure, they’d cut payroll taxes if they could eliminate Social Security or other programs that provide a safety net once corporations throw workers on the scrap heap. That would make workers much cheaper, having them deathly afraid. No Boeing strikes in their world (uppity workers thinking a profitable company should share the gains or offer security).

    Even if she wasn’t a hypocrite and ignorant of the job, and unqualified to take over the presidency by her limited knowledge of world and economic issues, Palin would still be an awful choice. She was chosen specifically to counter “liberal feminism”. She is the anti-Hillary you fools, not the ani-Obama. She is against choice, informed reproductive education, does not specifically support equal pay efforts (like correcting the recent awful Supreme Court decision), wants to keep sending men and women into the disaster of Iraq and she thinks homosexuality should be prayed away, let alone legitimised with equal rights.

    This is another GOP stooge site and an insult to feminists of all persuasions. Obama isn’t the messiah but he is qualified and we deserve a break from W’s war crimes and crimes against competency, all of which John McCain and Sarah Palin support.

  270. Hillary hasn’t spoken out about Sarah Palin’s treatment because she DISAGREES with everything Palin stands for. And she recognizes Sarah’s red baiting, anti-American labeling tactics as the same crap that was sandblasted at her and Bill for 8 years. And she and Bill were really not that liberal, so they should have been cut some slack. Just like Obama is simply for rolling back the tax cuts to where they were when Clinton’s were in the White House and we had economic growth and balanced budgets.

  271. Eeewww Woman Hating Boy-toy @ 1:38 and 1:32. Clean-up please.

  272. RD–I just saw this over at violet’s——— a good recap of the whole Hillary deal for everyone—-

    http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2008/10/27/if-you-vote-for-obama-this-is-what-youre-voting-for-reminder-6/

  273. Ha ha ha. Sexist name calling without addressing a single one of my points. Oh yes, Hillary would be thrilled with you. Not. Please tell me one thing Hillary would agree with Palin on, besides being in favor of having qualified female executives (even then Hillary would feel she was better qualified than Sarah).

  274. Some one upthread said it

    When criticizing Palin, ask her critics what
    accomplishments do THEY have that match Palin’s.

    Most of these self-proclaimed geniuses are losers.

    Palin is a threat to them.

    Women, please vote McCain/Palin and end this Obamanation
    once and for all

  275. ps: CA boy—from a CA fem.

    since you aren’t “us” you don’t realize what we saw happen do you?
    naw…..you don’t.

    anyway, for me it isn’t about Palin. I trust McC, the vote goes his way and I’m a Green (before Dem). So, it’s about a lot more than just her — but I’d take both of them over what has happened, anyday, millions of women will just based on what happened to Hillary and now Palin in effigy.

    As for Dem women I voted in all these years? The effed up. Bigtime. Besides, as an anti-war Dem, I don’t like the idea of an O invading pakistan & a potential draft–read Blackwater ties.
    & Pelosi/Brazile — ?

    you have no idea what the Confluence peeps have gone through & possible no idea where you have landed.

    2008 is the year of the massive PROTEST VOTE.

    yep. it’s that.

  276. Her critics are not running for President of the United States (or to be in line of succession). I am qualified for the jobs I apply for. The President is employed by the American people. The GOP has been waging class warfare against the middle class and poor for 28 years to get campaign contributions from the top 5% who own and run this country. They have the power to lay off and take over other companies so they can take over market share and terrify the remaining workers who aren’t laid off. Homos and feminists aren’t doing this, rich Republicans are.

    Working people can only fight this power by banding together with women, oppressed minorities (like the gays, who are to Republicans what Jews were to Nazis, convenient scapegoats) and using voting power to overcome money power. I am not a communist. I am a realist, like Otto Von Bismark. I am a landlord and charge people rent. But if you make the mass of people destitute and hopeless, you only invite a revolution like the Kings of France did, and you deserve the horrors that such upheavals cause.

    Hillary hasn’t been a radical feminist for years, but she has the good sense to know that the current brand of Republicanism is against every progressive idea she does stand for, and that they can’t govern worth a damn either. Palin is a creature who would love a Handmaid’s Tale future, she is just like Phyllis Schlafly, pushing for narrow roles for most women while pretending not to be an exception.

  277. California Boy,
    I have 11 horses and I know a pile of shit when I see it. Give me a freakin’ break. Like there aren’t “rich democrats” who own companies and lay off workers. As if the current dem nominee embraces “homos” and “feminists”. You are so deluded you probably can’t even walk a straight line.

    “They” can’t govern worth a damn? Ask yourself a few questions. Who has the majority in Congress? Who passes the laws that get sent to the president? Who said, “Impeachment is off the table.” Who said, “We have no idea how to solve this economic crisis.” Who got the most $$ from Fannie/Freddie? Who is behind MoveOn.org?

    Would Bush have gotten away with what he has without the complicity of the Congress and the press. Hell no!

    The biggest problem the Dems have is that they lack a spine and a soul.

    Sarah Palin IS qualified to run for VP. Don’t like it? Then vote for someone else. Take you shit and drop it somewhere else.

  278. Vbonnaire: I respect your offense at a tough and sometimes over the top (on both sides) campaign. If you are a dyed in the wool Hillary fan and can’t see Obama as “your” President, your feelings are your right. Do I think Hillary ran the better campaign, showed the best strategic sense, no. Myself, I was for Edwards and feel terrible he let his poor judgement silence a powerful voice for those without power. But McCain wants to “Bomb, Bomb Iran”, at least we do know that if Obama does intervene in Pakistan, it is because people who really did attack us are there, unlike Iraq. You have to admit, the Republicans will continue to be ruled by people who don’t think they’ve gotten CONSERVATIVE enough yet. They are so fired up about Palin because they think being more socially conservative, more politically divisive and give more tax breaks to the corporations and their owners is what America really needs. Not Green philosophy, not feminist equality, not addressing wage stagnation and growing inequality of wealth.

    If Jerry Ford, John Anderson or even a pre-Reagan George H. W. Bush (daddy) was running, I would say go ahead and protest. The only way these people will ever get that their narrow way won’t work is for them to lose big, Goldwater style. Even Nixon had to let environmentalism and feminism make headway after that rout. Make it a narrow loss, or help them win, and you will see them try harder to make their corporate theocracy a reality.

  279. RD – this is a very powerful message -s o powerful I sent it to my friend Debbie who is the ED at the Center for American Women in Politics at Rutgers U. We all need to spread it around – I have some friends on the West Coast whom I shared it with as well – with attribution of course!
    Thank you, thank you, thank you! :)

  280. Oh spare me. You must be a youngster, one of those woefully ill informed “new voters” that make up the Obama fan club. Your constant haranguing is as typical of their style as is your utter lack of knowledge about your OWN chosen candidate.

    If you believe that Obama is some kind of progressive or liberal hero, or that he is any less of a warhawk than John McCain, you are in for some serious deprogramming if he gets elected. If you think Sarah Palin is less qualified than Obama, please state the undoubtedly long, long list of his major accomplishments so we can all be educated about them. Because so far we don’t know of a single one.

    And please don’t come in here and try to snow us with talk about a “tough” campaign. Nobody has a problem with tough–witness our admiration for Hillary, who out-toughed every man she ran against, including your sainted Obama.

    Our fundamental problem with the campaign was its undemocratic nature: The rigging, the vote theft, the disenfranchisement. That’s why no talk of positions or ideals will move us. This is a PROTEST vote. That means you vote against, not for, the guy you’re protesting, even if it means voting for the devil.

    I

  281. Downticket said: “Palin is only saying nice things about Hillary because she wants her supporters votes”
    I don’t think so – I think she honestly admires and respects Hillary – she doesn’t have to agree with her too – remember she’s about 20 years younger and a smart lady – she knows Hillary has had to put up with a lot of stuff to get where she is.

    Myiq – as I said yesterday – we don’t know what threats have been made to Hill and Bill – so being “cautious” may not be a choice.

    Anybody seen Chelsea lately?

  282. Dak – if I didn’t get that phrase before, I definitely got it this season. The Palin crap is infuriating and I am doing my utter best to counter it.

  283. Sorry, I meant to address it to RD. Heading up to Dak’s thread now.

  284. This is the woman we admired for saying that “women’s rights are human rights”, who was a target of this unfair treatment and she ends up reinforcing it by going along to get along. She sacrifices her moral authority on the treatment of women in order to protect what is left of her political career

    I will never ask/expect a woman to give up her career for anything or anyone.

  285. This is the continually the most frustrating thing. Anyone can treat someone well who is like them and they agree with, it is when they don’t that the hidden bigotry seems to rear its ugly head.

    Then they rationalize it – in some sort of bizarre the ’cause justifies the means” warped logic. Their cause is just in their view so its okay to abandon their inclusiveness “beliefs.”

    It just makes me ill.

  286. CA Boy. I know we think alike, because of CA.
    So, for months we saw what happened, but, this acorn fraud is out of line — so is the fascism. For that you have to read NQ, for the ties — and these are all people I learned about here — all the writers doing the investigative reports on O.
    Do not be deluded by that logo or the campaign Axelrod ran.
    he has already censored two TV stations — he has already caged protesters, he is not a Dem. His philosophy is straight out of malcolm X sifted through Alinsky and Frank Marshall Davis via the old Panther school. Ayers — look at his new book…
    read up a little.
    I’m sure we are both green dems– how could we not be?
    But, every Hillary person in CA? You can expect that vote to go McC– he & Hillary are closer.
    And, McC wants PEACE, not war. His son is over there.
    Anti-War Dem Pacifists like me?
    Don’t want an O who knows nothing about international situations where nukes are building up. McC wants league of Democracies, Peace. O?
    He wants to lead the world–(hence Berlin)
    trust me, the world doesn’t give a flying F about O.
    McC is for jobs, and American Nationalism.
    O is for race baiting and vote stealing and gritty sleazy Chicago Politics — we all know that here 0– believe me, everyday, every day since January we have watched. In bad economic times– like now–it looks like the history books ala 1930 — Mussolini or ?
    Worse.
    McC won’t let that happen here.
    Just know when Dems, REAL DEMS leave — there is a BIG PROBLEM — that is what PUMA has been about — these aren’t Dems — Pelosi isn’t a Dem. Cindy Sheehan is.
    You might want to check out O and Soros?
    You’ll see. O? is for O. PUMAS know that.
    McC has said no nuclear war. He means that.

  287. Well, well, well.

    My partner said (about Palin) “do they think we will vote for her because we have a \/@gina?”

    Now i can tell her the truth. Women will vote against their best interests out of spite….

    go ahead, vote pro-life. vote for sneers on ‘women’s health’. vote to appoint those judges to take away your rights.

    wouldn’t it make more sense to organize and exert your influence in the next election cycle than to vote the opposition in?

    oh and the poll is missing a choice :
    “Have you challenged your friends when they call Sarah Palin stupid and inexperienced?”

    - no – because I agree with them….

  288. Or we could request that Obama put his daughters on Howard Stern and Howard makes them strip. Then maybe the Obamanazis will care about misogyny.

  289. Rd–God I was on here all day but i have to drop this read off for all of you. It’s PERECT purringly so, and written by a woman who next to RD sums up my sentiments on all of it.

    Arabella Trefoil — BBoomer & all o you — here it comes!

    http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon1028ke.html

    perfect.

  290. Perhaps this should be chalked up to her handlers rather than to Sarah Palin, but her comments regarding a fruitfly earmark (an Olive fruitfly, if I’m not mistaken) was very stupid. So, I feel no qualms about criticizing the comment while remaining neutral about the person. However, it is tough to defend the person when she allows herself to be a conduit for ignorance in the way her policy speech did. As a Drosophila geneticist (full disclosure and all), I can find no defense of of such reflexively anti-science and anti-intellectual commentary. I could certainly defend the person, but I’m less inclined to do so after that comment.

  291. Here is how Palin supports women, from ABC News.

    * State Senate President Lyda Green from Wasilla, is a fellow conservative and was an ally of Palin’s throughout the 1990s. “If you had looked at our résumés, as far as being pro-life, pro-N.R.A., pro-family, pro-parental control, saving taxpayer dollars, keeping government out of our lives, we would have been identical,” Green told the New Yorker. “She traces the chill in their relationship to her decision not to endorse Palin in her 2006 gubernatorial primary. (She stayed neutral.)…

    “The animosity became public last January, when Palin turned up on an Anchorage shock-jock radio program, ‘The Bob and Mark Show.’ Bob Lester said that he knew Palin believed Green was ‘a bitch’ and ‘a cancer.’ Palin laughed at the comments. ‘Sarah can be heard in the background tittering, hee-heeing,’ Green said, ‘never saying, ‘That’s not appropriate, let’s not talk like that, let’s change the subject,’ or anything.’ Green was devastated. ‘I worked through it,’ she said. ‘The difficult thing about it was when my children read about it online. They were dumbfounded, because they had known Sarah. I had breast cancer in ’97 and had a radical mastectomy. Sarah certainly knew I had breast cancer, because she sent me flowers when I was ill.’”

  292. [...] The Confluence for Riverdaughter’s post on this [...]

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