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Saturday: A House Divided

I got a call from Quinnipiac this morning.  Whoo-hoo!  I’ve been *polled*.  I’m now just another statistic.  The poll questions didn’t allow for much elaboration.  I answered neither to more than one question.  I went off on a tangent about Frank Lautenberg.  He really ticked me off when he threw his support to Barack Obama.  And I will never forgive Jon Corzine for giving my vote to Obama at the Convention.

The party is at war with itself.  It’s not even a “civil” war.  Those of us who are witholding our votes from Obama have been subject to pressure, ridicule and sometimes threats of violence.  I have never seen a presidential nominee so contemptuous of voters.  First it was contempt for his own party’s base.  Now, it is extending to independent and Republican voters.  If you embarrass The Chosen One, his free PR machine, the media, will dig up details of your personal life to display to the rest of the country.  If you are a supporter of the opponent, you can be subject to beatings.  If you are a woman, you’re nothing more than a brainless vagina.  Obama is responsible for this.  If it wasn’t working for him, he’d call off his dogs.

Back in June, right after the RBC hearing, we made a decision to separate ourselves from the Hillary campaign.  We admire and respect her but we made a choice to stick up for ourselves.  Let us be clear: we are Democrats and Democrat leaning non-affiliated voters.  If any newcomers to this blog have any doubts about that, please visit my Credo in the tabs at the top of the page.  That is what we are trying to preserve.  We believe in the social safety net.

I’ve heard a lot of speculation that Obama is a socialist.  Some of us who have followed Democratic politics for a long time are pretty convinced he is not.  The evidence seems to suggest that Obama is a political opportunist.  He doesn’t run on any particular principle.  He is a chameleon who adapts to the environment of the people who can give him a boost up to the next rung of the ladder.  And he is very comfortable with using un-Democratic means to eliminate his opponents.

As a Democrat, who is presently unaffiliated out of protest, I am very distressed that an organization like ACORN has become a touchpoint of controversy.  It should not be controversial to assiste citizens in registering to vote.  We should all be applauding this.  Even David Iglesias suggests that the reason he and other US Attorneys were dismissed is because of their principled stance against prosecuting groups like ACORN for alleged voter fraud.  Unfortunately, ACORN may have been the tool by which Obama gamed the primary caucuses so the present claims of voter fraud are all too believable.  And now, this organization and others like it, who are assisting the poor, elderly and minority groups in voting, may be compromised in their mission.  Republicans must be absolutely delighted.

They must be delighted that they are about to reap the benefits of the DNC pitting women against African-Americans as well, not to mention the Whole Foods Nation against the working class.  But one thing we can be sure of is that after this election, the Democratic party will never be the same.  Our eyes have been opened.  Those of us in the Obama demographic who are women who voted for Hillary will have a hard time believing that the party has any interest in our issues.  The misogynism that was allowed to be unleashed by Obama’s campaign will haunt us for generations to come if he and the DNC are not held accountable.  If the most powerful woman in the nation can be taken out by a bunch of thugs, what is to stop businesses around the country from discriminating against us?  What will happen to women who compete with men for jobs?  What will happen to women on maternity leave coming back to work?  What will happen to women suffering from domestic violence?  If Obama is president, no one will be held accountable for the treatment meted out by testosterone poisoned men who have been given the green light to take what they want.

I recently spoke to a moderate Republican at a wedding who said that he thought that the reason we ended up with Obama was because the Democratic party had come together at the convention in the name of party unity.  I had to dispel that notion.  No, what actually happened was that the Democratic party took a little more than half of its pie and threw it away.  It suppressed us and called it unity.  But no unity can exist when no attempt is made to acknowledge or honor our will.  Even today, 17 days before the election, the Democratic nominee has made no attempt to reach out to us and the antics of his supporters continue to push us away.

We do have other places to go.  In fact, it is our obligation for us to do something other than acquiesce.  As Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.’ If we allow ourselves to be divided, with the Whole Foods Nation in their triumph cutting the poor, working class, minorities, elderly and women out of the process to become second class citizens, we give our permission to further acts of degradation.  We create a permanent underclass.  And this underclass may never again have enough wherewithal to achieve adequate representation in government to achieve its goals.

This is what Obama represents.   I am very sorry to have to disappoint Senator Clinton but when the pollster asked me if I would vote for Obama, I said “No”.  This is my choice and I take full responsibility for it.  If Democrats don’t all go forward into the future together, they shouldn’t go forward.  We should not allow the privieleged in the Democratic party secede in order to unburden itself from its obligations towards the common good.

What Abraham Lincoln said about the Union could apply to the Democratic party today, “”‘A house divided against itself cannot stand.'(Mark 3:25) I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing, or all the other.”

330 Responses

  1. Well said. I agree that half of the party has been lefy by the wayside.

  2. er, left, not lefy. Never could type/

  3. what happened to the unity pony?

  4. PUMA would be bigger if more people realized that Hillary received more votes. People I encounter find that hard to believe and their enthusiasm for Dems and Obama wanes dramatically. People aren’t happy with Obama and would like him less if they knew what happened in the primary.

  5. Unfortunately the echo chamber has convinced some of my fellow Democrats in my town who were strong HRC supporters and who were appalled by the DNC’s and Obama and campaign’s behavior in the primary to cave in and vote for BO. They admit they’ve been scared into it by talk of Roe v. Wade and Bush III.

    There is a ton of early voting in my college town and while I like having as many people vote as possible, I think it should be done on a two-holiday election holiday, not spread out quite so much. There are ads about “Can’t Wait to Vote for Him?” with BO pictures. That has turned me off so much I can’t even express it. Obama wants to bag as many votes as possible as a hedge against any kind of surprise that could still arise.

    That makes me sad because it means that there IS no way for third-party politics to enter our system. Nonetheless I do know some people here – including myself – who are voting for McKinney/Clemente. I’m going to feel good on election day. And from now on, this lifelong Democrat is going to become an independent liberal working for true progressivism. I’d prefer to spend the second half of my life doing that anyway.

  6. Unity happens when the truth is realized by both sides … not stolen and ridden by the powerful over the truth

  7. what we have here is a trojan unity pony

  8. Montague: I suspect there are a lot of people who can’t wait to vote against him as well.

  9. Congratulations on becoming a statistic, RD, let’s see how much they weigh you.

    *Snerk* By the way, Bill’s on a cross-country economic speaking tour of Canda instead of campaigning. He’s in Canada. Guess he had a scheduling conflict.

  10. Bill’s a PUMA. No doubt about it.

  11. Glad to hear from you Riverdaughter…and congratulations on being polled! Anyway, I remember what you wrote the day you re-registerd as non-affiliated. You were feeling free as a bird. Do you still? As for me, I will re-register as an independent immediately after the election ( I want the record to show how many Democrats did not vote Obama – as if it matters in California). But anyway, I am sad about it. Maybe if there were a category called “Pumacrat” I would be feeling better.

  12. Thanks RD for the post! When Democracy comes back to the Democratic Party, so will we.

    I think the silent majority will come out in full force, too.

  13. I never stopped being a Democrat.

    But I will NEVER support Obama

  14. Regency – remember he’s also observing Zoroastrian New Year.

  15. SM- With hats, I know. I’m sure there’s some of Cindy’s nectar around too. Maybe some moonshine.

  16. Ahhh.. so the unity pony’s under the bus too? Dang, it’s getting crowded under here.

  17. MYIQ: i never changed my voter reg card – just in case there was another Democratic primary in FL as was suggested by James Carville.

    So much for that.

  18. Yes SM77, I have been posting about my faith in The Silent Majority for a couple of weeks now. They sank us in 2004 and I hated them for it! Ha Ha! How things change.

  19. Or rather ‘how things’ appear when you are forced to be on the other side of the fence.

  20. Regency – the funning thing is that the Zoroastrian New year should start on March 21.

  21. sm77- Okay, so make that Happy Belated Zoro astrian New Year.

  22. RD, you sure covered a lot of great territory in that piece.

    One thing I’ve been thinking about –that you touched upon here– is what will happen to women in our society as a result of this free-for-all misogyny that has been chucked whole cloth at us.

    Obama lit the fire and enabled the worst hatred towards women I have ever seen. It is doubly confusing/troubling because so many women jumped on the hate-women bandwagon.

    Now, because it is a perceived “acceptable” for people to fly into and explore and express the deepest hatred they can possibly dig up on women, what will the repercussions be?

    I can see some young woman out on a date and not doing what her guy wants and he feels justified into diving into that hate zone that has been so well defined and orchestrated in this political cycle.

    Well, the scenarios are endless. But none seem good. It isn’t like people entered into the misogynistic frenzy and successfully expelled it from themselves.
    Rather they have embraced it as some sort of chalice
    of endless fascination.


  23. Thank you for this outstanding post, RD – I agree with every word you’ve written. And here I’d like to make a request: would it be alright with you if I forward the entirety of your post to others, with full attribution, of course? You are clearly and eloquently expressing everything I’d like to say to friends (some apparently former) and acquaintances who have been completely baffled, not to mention alienated, by my intransigence on the subject of Obama’s desirability and suitability as presidential candidate. I’d also like to share your words with a few like minded friends out there.

  24. Chatblu – or happy PRE-Zoroastrian New Year?

    Carol Diamonds has her X-mas trees up year round. Why not let Bill observe the Zoro holiday?

  25. I went to a Halloween party as “Zorro” once

  26. AngelaSmith – Oabama made women chattel again by ordering a vote by committee of males to decide what’s best for our repro rights.

    How ’bout he ask Jeremiah Wright for his permission to have a vasectomy?


  27. MyIQ: that counts. You are hereby excused from campaigning for Obama.

  28. Amen, sister. Amen.

  29. Montague – my cousin was leaning O – because of Roe vs. Wade but when I pointed out that the Repugs had the first four years of Bush to change it without any problems he realized that it wasn’t valid he is now a McPalin voter.

  30. AngelaSmith said – “Obama made women chattel again by ordering a vote by committee of males to decide what’s best for our repro rights.”

    Montague – you can use Angel’s point above to help them understand how much worse they will be if O gets in

  31. SM, yes chattel.
    And now the re-establishment of the “rule of thumb”?

    So far, one of my best defenses is the rule of the middle finger…

    That, and the rule of voting nobama.

  32. If Obama is president, no one will be held accountable for the treatment meted out by testosterone poisoned men who have been given the green light to take what they want.

    But it wasn’t just men RD. Pelosi, McCaskill, Napolitano, Sebelius, Brazile, et. al. enabled and fueled this travesty.

    And I wholeheartedly agree that to condone this behavior is to empower it for the future. By voting for Obama, it is saying “yes” to disenfranchisement and abuse. I wish someone would poll me so I could give a firm and unapologetic, “NO!”

  33. “I’ve heard a lot of speculation that Obama is a socialist. Some of us who have followed Democratic politics for a long time are pretty convinced he is not. The evidence seems to suggest that Obama is a political opportunist. He doesn’t run on any particular principle. He is a chameleon who adapts to the environment of the people who can give him a boost up to the next rung of the ladder. And he is very comfortable with using un-Democratic means to eliminate his opponents.”


    I agree with this. The “socialist” thing is interesting, however, because it was an entirely predictable outcome of BO’s lack of substance. He openly established himself as a cipher onto which people could project whatever they wanted — he even said this himself. No principles, no identity, no values beyond scorched-earth power grabbing.

    And not that this is unusual in a politician. It’s the utter lack of accountability and the marginalization of dissenting voices that’s the problem. That’s the cancer growing in the body politic and if given years to fester, I have no idea what forms of sickness will come.

  34. I’m actually looking forward to the next time Obama discusses abortion rights, because every time he does he adds another interest group to the approval committee. I can’t wait to find out which interest group Mr. Panderer-in-Chief will glom on next.

    First doctors, then pastors, then (realizing, I assume, not everyone has a pastor and that women without them might be able to decide for themselves based on this technicality), clergy, then their families (no loopholes for marital rape or incest, I guess, just like Sarah Palin). Next it will be — who? Her union rep? Bank teller? Pizza delivery guy?

  35. Kudos RD: Well said and we all agree, a party divided will never stand tall.

    Off Topic: Has anyone read the article about the
    “hynotic” effect Obama has on people.

    I only bring it up, because the few times I engaged in watching him, I would have to “literally” shake off his effect on me, and I know it wasn’t my imagination.

    If I didn’t know the corruptness that existed in this party / primaries, I see what they feel about him.

    It’s uncanny, so spreading the word is our best weapon on BO:

    PS: apparently, this “hypnosis” isn’t a coincidence, it’s being done purposely.

    Sorry, I don’t have the link, worked all night, and didn’t think to save, but it’s out there if your lurking——just an interesting theory.

  36. By the way, Bill’s on a cross-country economic speaking tour of Canda instead of campaigning. He’s in Canada. Guess he had a scheduling conflict.

    LOL! Has Bill campaigned anywhere for BO, besides his rally with Biden in Scranton? Sly ole’ Dawg!

  37. I bet “the plumber” wouldn’t need a subpena (sp?) to show his birth certificate if he needed it to get his license. Just sayin’

  38. SM: Perhaps we could redo the song from Auntie Mame: “We need a little Zoroastrian New Year, right this very minute…..”

  39. I wasn’t saying Obama is not a citizen, just that the whole controversy is stupid, and so easily put to rest, but the boyman can’t be criticized at all without a bigass controversy coming out of it.

  40. He’s done mostly DT campaigning. He was here for Chris Bell and Rick Noriega just this past week.

  41. Yup, it made me feel like a second class citizen and not even worth 1/2 a vote…Darn! Yea, what gives them the right to take our votes away! Why was Hillary the first Democratic candidate to not be given a Roll Call Vote? Why did they favor one over the other when one had a longer history or working for the ‘people’!

    I am madder as the election gets closer and even more upset when I saw the attack on Cindy McCain. Women have been thrown under the bus, the bus has backed up and run us over time and time again.

    McCain reacts to New York Times article

    Obama is out spending McCain 4 to 1, just like he did in the primary.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Money Changes Everything

  42. Do you have any idea of just how many PUMA’s there are?

    Media just says a tiny number.

  43. Media can’t count. I’d say Millions but they don’t all go by PUMA.

  44. Gotta go. Back later. Don’t have too much fun without me.

  45. Typical Republican
    The Obama media counted us between 19-24% out of 18 millions.

  46. Obama does not have a hypnotic effect on me. He has a somnolent effect on me. Seriously, I find the man beyond boring. He strings a vast amount of words together and manages to say nothing.

    If anything, he turns me off and has from the first time I heard him give a speech with that fake preacher schtick. Jesse Jackson TALKS that way naturally. Jeremiah Wright talks that way naturally. Barack Obama does not and he sounds (and looks) just as stupid as GW in his big ol’ Texas hat with his affected Texas drawl.

  47. RD
    Quinnipiac has been – through the years the most hate-Hillary obsessed pollster of all. I concluded that when they polled her against Rudy, immediately post 9.11. Neither were running for anything at the time.

  48. PUMAs represent Hillary Clinton voters who are voting for other presidential candidates but NOT the Democratic Candidate.

    Polls say about 1/3 of Hillary’s18 million voters have defected.

    And in swing states, that’s a significant amount.

  49. The misogyny that the Obama campaign has unleashed upon us is frightening and infuriating. AND this supposedly messianic man has not once spoken out against it. Obama is a despicable man and those supporters of his who have a shred of decency left should be ashamed to support such outspoken hatred.

  50. Hillary is not the most powerful woman in the nation and she never was except when she was maybe first lady. According to Nancy she is the third most powerful person in Washington so I think she qualifies as the most powerful woman in the nation.

  51. My local TV and newspaper now reporting, editorializing
    about ACORN…


  52. Got my Palin “We Can Do It” button today and it’s on my purse. I think I’ll keep it there even when I go into work. 🙂

  53. RD, the great irony, for me, in the discussion of Obama’s character and political leanings is that he portrays himself as a great LISTENER to the thoughts and emotions of others but doesn’t really know how to listen in the way we think of truly listening. One of the first things that good Alinsky influenced community organizers do is “listen” one-on-one to the members of the community they intend to “organize,” (maybe “unconditionally?)

    But what are they listening for? It’s basically an exercise to determine what drives people and what they long for. In other words, they are listening intently for the vulnerabilities of those who they would organize.

    In modern Rogerian psychological lingo, to listen to someone is to be completely present to that person, without agenda, simply reflecting back an accurate picture of what is heard. The idea here is that when a person hears themselves through the impartial and fair reflection of a truly impartial person, they will be able to see themselves in a new light. This is certainly NOT what BO means by listening. Because in such listening there is nothing in it for the listener except the satisfaction of sinking into the background after the other person has gained new insight about themselves.

    The listening model I value most is what has been called “Holy Listening,” (see Margaret Guenther’s book with that title). This sort of listening involves giving oneself to the other with the hope of “listening them into speech.” The “holy aspect” has to do with the idea that the listener is only a human instrument of compassion. There is no “fixing” involved by the listener. Compare this with the second step in the Alinsky model that involves “aggitation” once it has been determined what the hot buttons are of the members of the would-be organized community.

    Barack is certainly no psychotherapist. I’d say he barely has enough self-consciousness to find his way to the platform and the teleprompter. And there certainly is no “holy” aspect to his approach. If anything it seems to embody just the opposite.

    Here’s where the irony comes in. When Barack “listens” to those he would organize (read control) the only thing he seems to hear is the sound of his own voice. The effect is to “listen others into SILENCE” rather than into SPEECH.

    Remember his Father’s Day sermon to the AA church about how the black male has let down the whole AA community. THIS IS AGGITATION of the black community with little compassion for the tremendous social issues involved. And his speech on race in Philadelphia was no more than AGGITATION of the white community leaning hard into the guilt of being white in America, again with little true feeling for the magnitude of the social dilema which MLK so greatly understood and communicated so well.

    It all smacks of some Zen koan about the sound of “a mind speaking to itself.” The outward manifestation of this state of mind is the famous Obama smirk, teeth showing, compassion totally lacking. It is a complete mystery to me how anyone can truly connect with this man on the level of human compassion. Perhaps some of you know, but I doubt it.

  54. Another excellent post RD. Lots to think about.
    And SM: and excellent post downstairs.

    I’m having a hard tie with lots of people I’d counted as my friends. This particular group consists of folks I hung with back in the day, either from NOW or from a Lesbian organization I belonged to. They were Hillary supporters but now are all voting for Obama. And they’re not just voting for him–they are in-your-facing it too. I used to get an email a day (telling me how dangerous Palin is and how she’s not a real woman and how her vajayjay doesn’t entitle her to a vote), but when I started sending some replies back (just the facts, gentle too), I got blasted off the planet. Disappointed doesn’t begin to describe my feelings at this point.

  55. Congrats on becoming a statistic RD!

    It’s gotten so crowded under the bus that I just overheard them calling for more buses as reinforcements so they don’t run out of room

  56. The under the bus crowd isn’t so bad. At least we get some fresh air down here.

  57. Just got two calls from Moving AZ Forward…urging my spousal unit and me to vote early. I told them…”We will NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER vote for Obama who we consider to be the biggest disgrace of a candidate that we have ever seen in our lifelong Democratic lives.

    One women got into an argument with me that McCain said women’s should die giving birth or commit suicide(???) (I asked her for her cite!).

    Also told them that we will NEVER NEVER NEVER vote for Gabrielle Gifford who took Pelosi money, endorsed Obama and voted against her district and her state at the Dem Convention.

    This is about the 10th time I have had this “conversation” – you think they would have learned by now.


  58. Riverdaughter, I sure hope you are right. I’m tired of being browbeaten into voting for the lesser of two evils. I’d like to think many others feel the same.

  59. Gas is now $2.99 a gallon? They must know we are now counting nickles and pennies to gas up. 😦

  60. We just looked up Brunner v. Ohio Republicans, US Sup Ct per curiam opinion. We also looked up the statute: the reason the Ohio Sec’y of State won her case is because the only person who can enforce HAVA is the attorney general of the US. So here is what we emailed to AskDOJ@usdoj.gov:

    Dear Mr. Attorney General,

    I am writing to urge you to bring a civil action in a federal district court against Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner to enforce section 303 of the Help Americans Vote Act of 2002. Under section 401 of that act (42 U.S.C. 15511)only the Attorney General of the United States has authority to enforce the requirements of section 303 with which Ms. Brunner has refused to comply. Only you can keep our November 2008 election free from voter fraud in Ohio by obtaining a court order to Ms. Brunner to do what is required of her under federal law. Please institute action immediately. Voter registration fraud must be prevented before the election. I ask this as a U.S. citizen who is registered to vote but not affiliated with any political party.

    Thank you for your prompt attention to this urgent matter.

    Respectfully yours,

  61. if you believed the corpmedia, republicans are equally divided (oh sure). i read so many corpmedia pro-BO pieces that manage to find republicans who say mccain will lose, here’s another:

    will the press go looking for deborah barnhart, the “lone McCain supporter” at the BO rally, who Toby Harnden of the rightwing UK Telegraph managed to find in a crowd of 5,000!!! good going toby.

    these are the final (lasting impression) paras in harnden’s piece:

    UK Telegraph: Barack Obama vows to ‘change the world’
    By Toby Harnden in Londonderry, New Hampshire
    A lone McCain supporter at the rally said she too was convinced that the Republican nominee was finished. “McCain has lost,” said Deborah Barnhart, 48, who runs a landscaping business.
    “He’s lost because the Messiah has spoken and we’re going to change the world. That’s all people want to hear after eight years of Bush. Obama thinks he’s won. Everyone here thinks he’s won.”

    for a woman with a “landscaping business” i can find nothing whatsoever about her online apart from numerous blogs quoting her Messiah spiel. it does make me wonder if this lady exists. the quote is just too convenient.

  62. noepiphany….that does sound suspicious. what was she doing there in the first place?

  63. “Obama’s not a socialist…”
    Obama’s not anything. He’s a fence-sitter. “I see your point.” I actually agree with…” He never takes a stand, so he never really backtracks or reverses himself. If you think about it, he’s not said or done much of anything. if you think about it a little harder, like about his time in New York after Columbia, or his records documenting just about anything in his life, from his birth certificate to his baptism, a case could be made that he doesn’t even really exist.

  64. A house divided … A house abandoned .. does anyone remember that scene in Jurassic park where the kids say HE LEFT US HE LEFT US !!! ??

    The day that conversation took place with Paul Begala and that DAMNED B. woman … that finalised the observations for me that not only did not bo think Hillary supporters were necessary , that he deeply resented each and every one of us for choosing her .
    If he did not care about us , and can wrtie off entire segments of thepopulation and almost half of the party , there is no way in hell he cares abuot anyone or anything except winning and sitting his own ass in the oval office . Nothing else… but himself

  65. Just did a poll solicited by Polling Point by e-mail. I wonder if it tilts their machine when we answer “Strong Democrat” but voting for McCain?

  66. I don’t care if the Democratic Party folds. Hard for me to say that, but maybe it will be like the 1850s and the old parties will shatter. They have become too extreme on the right, and too right on the left.

  67. I’m beginning to think there are more people under the bus than in the bus or near the bus … but maybe that’s just me

    but there is still a lot of under-the-bus-denial syndrome going around

  68. Great post, RD. I’m just thinking out loud here, so please bear with me. I’m not a political scientist, but a lifelong activist. I think we must remember that we can continue to believe in a ‘social safety net’ a la FDR, without going all-out socialist/communist as in BO’s patently absurd ‘redistribute the wealth’ scheme. I still believe BO is essentially a socialist/communist, or at least is using the very affluent network of those who espouse that viewpoint to achieve his own ends (which I believe comprise a very sinister hidden agenda). Yes, he is an opportunist, first and foremost. BO, after all, did run for the Ill. State Senate the first time as a member of the Chicago New Party, which was established by the Democratic Socialists of America. He even signed their required contract and they publicly referred to him as one of their candidates. In actuality, I believe BO is more politically aligned with the radical authoritarian flavor of socialism/communism, a la Ayers, Dohrn and other SDS/WUO members such as Carl Davidson. This is borne out in BO’s Saul Alinsky training/community organizing experiences, his close ties with and use of Wiley’s/Rathke’s ACORN and their corrupt, fraudulent methods, and by the thug-like bullying, intimidation, character assassination, disgusting sexism/misogyny, free speech suppression, threats and outright violence his campaign has used throughout this election season. Unfortunately, this radical authoritarian viewpoint /approach isn’t limited to today’s Democratic Party. It appears to exist in numerous places across the network of socialist-leaning organizations, including a huge number of non-profits, all purportedly championing ‘social justice’ on the surface while using the discontent of the disadvantaged and disinfranchised to form a coalition primarily for the purpose of seizing power. The Democratic Party as it exists today is but one manifestation of this radical authoritarian viewpoint/approach. For me, the only true Democratic Party (of FDR, Truman, JFK, the Clintons) died when BO was nominated via the corrupt, fraudulent process we all remember in vivid detail. That Party will never return, in my opinion. Perhaps the GOP can reclaim its roots in fiscal conservatism, smaller government, individual responsibility, rugged individualism, entrepreneurship if the McCain-Palin ticket is successful. GWB nearly destroyed the GOP (and this country) by taking it too far to the right. That is a large part of what McCain-Palin are battling in this campaign, in addition to the results of GWB’s sheer ineptitude, arrogance and cronyism. But, BO’s radical authoritarianism has taken the Democratic Party so far to the left that I don’t believe it can ever be salvaged (perhaps he, the DNC and GWB’s GOP are meeting all the way around the circle, having done a complete 360!). I’m a lifelong Democrat, but I have more faith in the ability of McCain-Palin to reform and reclaim the GOP (as well as clean up Capitol Hill and Wall St.) than I have in any Democrat to reform and reclaim the Democratic Party. Perhaps it’s time to simply dispense with the old labels and start fresh with an approach that combines the best of the old, true Democratic Party with the best of the old, true GOP, and attempt to steer our country’s ship of state back toward the center, under the guidance of the majority of moderates/centrists, and away from the dangerous lurchings of the extremists to left and right. Just my thoughts. Thanks.

  69. I posted this on Heidi Li’s site a little while ago – I’d like to reprint it here, with some minor (mostly grammatical) changes:

    Here’s the catastrophe that awaits the Democratic party: in their rush for short-term satisfaction (election of Obama) the DNC has thrown countless of its most loyal and most generous (with time and money) supporters overboard. A lot of people who have been giving money to Democrats for decades, and have supported every Democrat on the ballot, have been summarily dismissed. The new Democratic coalition (Donna Brazile frequently says the party has been expanded – NO! The make-up of the party has been CHANGED), this new Democratic coalition isn’t in the midst of this election because they are anxious to support Democrats. They’re in it to support Obama. It’s all about Obama, not the Democratic party. All those people who have never taken an interest in politics have not suddenly been turned on to politics. They might think so, and Obama and friends argue this, but politics being what they are these newly indoctrinated to politics will lose their faith soon enough. And what will the Democratic party have then? These new followers won’t care in the long run. Even if Obama serves two terms, in eight years what will the Democratic Party do for itself? Those who give money to Obama and campaign for him so passionately will not give money to the party and other downticket Democrats, and will not walk door-to-door for other Democrats, just like they’re not doing anything for them now. These new members of the Democratic party are not in it for the Democratic party, they’re in it for Obama. Meanwhile all those people who for decades *have* been supporting the party with time and money will likely remain where they’ve been discarded in 2007-08. The Democratic party might win the battle of 2008 – but I think they’ve already lost the war.

  70. This was great RD — especially all the feminist parts — this is the whole problem in a nutshell. There are so many troublesome things RD — it’s hard to even know what to write today — but — all we need to go by is that we can’t recognize all this as DEM behavior. It isn’t. In looking at this piece on Ayers — his office is filled with Malcolm X — this is O’s early mentor. Ayers new book is his philosophy — smash white patriarchy for? An overthrow. Che style. These are O’s people?
    That is why we can’t recognize them, or they us? Believe me, somebody like Palin is difficult for me as a West Coast Dem — but I’m not worried about her trying to destroy American Nationalism —

    Today there is news up Ayers not welcome in Nebraska, and O & Co. seen as Anti-American by a Repub. Congresswoman —
    Well? The ideology behind Che? Malcolm X et al? That camp follows it — no denying that. Unless we “felt” something was wrong with the Dems this year why would we leave? You nailed parts of that in this piece completely — the tactics…

    I have a lot of problems with his fundraising and non-disclosure as well as the Pelosi Soros backing and media slant. Here is the Ayers article — you can see the pic of the office and mentors…


    this next piece was good — the argument is about the radical connections — it’s true — who are they?


    like you said, can we just HAVE HILLARY.
    if not?

    Oh well. These aren’t Dems. Not Dems like us.
    It’s like an invasion of aliens from another planet — only it’s called Chicago — we watched it happen.

    hugs, RD & Co.

  71. Malcolm X realized that whitey and non-whitey are the same, and his “handlers” were not amused and offed him. I prefer to think of him as he was right before he was murdered, not when he was brainwashed.

  72. Don’t get pulled into the David Iglesias lie. Vote fraud was one of the reasons he was dismissed, but not the primary reason. Iglesias refused to bring down indictments against the very corrupt Manny Aragon who was one of the most powerful Democrats the New Mexico political scene has known. This week Aragon pled guilty on a number of counts of corruption. I think the whole reappearance of Iglesias on the scene this week is due to the fact that he is trying to change the subject.

    The Pink Flamingo

  73. I think it’s interesting that some of us think Obama is too far to the right and others too far to the left. I think that proves the Stalinist theory–totalitarian, even if we aren’t sure of the ideology.

    Just saw a headline I did not want to read from Reuters: Bookie pays out early on Obama victory.


  74. I think RD is right about Obama having no particular ideology – another way he is like W – he will be for whatever advances him.
    Being a chameleon – which has adopted so many different colors, he mixes them up sometimes. Like when he was straining – Bush-like to ‘splain Joe the Plumber about taxes. That video I watched here was painful. The “wealth redistribution” popped into his mind from his Ayers times – and was the incendiary remarks.
    To me, much worse was the part where he is trying to explain Joe the time travel theory: “had my tax law applied to you these past 15 years you would have saved more money” All righty then. That makes it all right to pay higher taxes now… As a sci-fi buff this argument hurt my brain.

  75. Sharon
    I believe you are right. Once he realized there are white Muslims too and lost the Black Liberation POV, he became a hindrance to his movement.

  76. garychapelhill – who knows if she was there. bbc keep doing this, claiming to be speaking to repubs who diss mccain, but usually bbc doesn’t publish any name, so you can’t even check it out.

    btw, remember the aide who forced the mentally challenged man to vote for BO.
    what people didn’t note was it did not concern only the man complaining, but

    WALB: Mentally challenged man says his vote wasn’t right
    We questioned election officials about the procedure, who say they recall
    the group coming in to vote and an aide was helping the individuals,..

    naturally i haven’t seen any corpmedia searching out the aide, but WALB has
    a follow-up:

    WALB: Sec. of State takes up challenged voter issue
    Secretary of State Karen Handle’s office contacted WALB Thursday to tell us
    they asked the Office of Inspector General to investigate Jack Justice’s
    voting experience.
    Wednesday, the Albany Area Community Service Board which oversees Primus
    Industries said they will bring in an external agency to investigate
    allegations made by Justice.
    He told his family that an aide from Primus took him and five other mentally
    challenged clients to vote and forced them to vote for Barack Obama. ..
    Election officials say if that happened, the aide will face criminal


    ksdk: Couple Finds Unauthorized Charge on Credit Card from Obama Campaign
    At least four credit card holders in Missouri have recently opened their
    statements and found unauthorized transactions, which charged $2,300 to the
    presidential campaign of Sen. Barack Obama.
    It happened to Tom Brown and his wife a couple weeks ago. They became aware
    of it after Discover sent them an e-mail about an unusually large purchase.
    “My wife said, ‘Oh my God!’ Right away, she called Discover to cancel the
    card,” Brown said. “I talked to Discover about it, and they said it looks
    like it was keyed in from Chicago.”
    Specifically, the e-mail indicated the charge came from Obama for America
    Chicago Illinois. The Browns were able to get the charge refunded by
    “It was under his name. Under ‘merchant,’ it read ‘Obama for America.’ And
    we basically would not give a politician $2,300 dollars. We would not give
    any politician, probably, a dollar. And I really, basically, don’t know
    who’s at fault, for this, or who did what,” Brown said. “But someone out
    there is trying to hit people’s charges and collect money. We were just
    interested in letting other people know that this could happen to them.”
    Brown pointed out this was not a story about politics; it’s about credit
    card fraud.
    “We mainly wanted to make sure it just got to the public that no one else
    gets taken advantage of?because our feeling is what happens if someone else
    would not check their charge, and then they’re stuck with the charge?” he
    Officials with the Obama Campaign in Missouri said they were aware of the
    suspicious credit card charges. Friday, the Missouri Obama Communications
    Director released this statement: “The Obama campaign is not responsible for
    these charges, but we have refunded all of the affected individuals and we
    are working closely with authorities regarding these questionable charges.”
    It was not known whether that statement was an indication that some of the
    credit card money did get to the Obama Campaign, even if they did not
    initiate the charges.
    A spokesperson for the Missouri Attorney General’s office has told the
    Associated Press that they were investigating a “handful” of similar

    be careful with your credit cards folks.

  77. “I’ve heard a lot of speculation that Obama is a socialist. Some of us who have followed Democratic politics for a long time are pretty convinced he is not. The evidence seems to suggest that Obama is a political opportunist. He doesn’t run on any particular principle. He is a chameleon who adapts to the environment of the people who can give him a boost up to the next rung of the ladder. And he is very comfortable with using un-Democratic means to eliminate his opponents.”

    Why are you convinced he is not a socialist? So far as it stands we only know that he will do anything to gain the White House, but that doesn’t mean he has no agenda socialist or otherwise… We’re seeing how he attains power: by any means possible. However, he has an agenda once installed.

    After all, for his narcissism to be fully realized there HAS to be a problem, which HE can solve. He is arrogant because he KNOWS what America, nay, the world, needs and he can’t possibly wrong!

  78. Just saw a headline I did not want to read from Reuters: Bookie pays out early on Obama victory.

    Chimera …people lose money every day
    .. wait that is a massive understatement in this economy isnt it ??

  79. jvsp: Bernie Sanders is a socialist. I work with socialists. I don’t fear socialists. They have a sense of responsibility and they aren’t afraid to pay their taxes.
    Barack Obama is no socialist.

  80. I agree that Barack Obama is not a socialist, he just pretends to be one when it’s politically expedient for him to be one.

    No “socialist” in their right mind would write page after page of Reagan-snugglypuff love if he were a true Socialist. And neither would a Democrat.

  81. Brava RD and sm77. I hope you like this. It’s a little OT but hopefully will provide a little solace. Here goes –

    It’s bothered me for some time now, being the second-guesser that I am, how I could be so diametrically opposed to my friends and work-mates regarding Bambi. Then I realized that I’ve been through all this before: in 1972, when I was 16. So hey, if I handled it then, I can sure handle this now.

    I was a junior in prep school in CT. My political hero was FDR. My classmates’ political hero was William F. Buckley, Jr. My friends were sporting all manner of GOP paraphernalia. There was no mention of Nixon’s name but instead, buttons and banners supporting the “re-election of the President”. Heavy duty HAKA everywhere. Watergate and all the other abuses underreported. Sound familiar?

    So what was a future PUMA to do? Why hold a McGovern Bake Sale, of course! There were only 4 of us, strategically positioned near the field hockey team’s dressing room. We sold the slices but did not overtly reveal what “cause” we were promoting. Some girls wanted their money back. “Too late, we already cut the cake”, we replied sweetly.

    Two years later, no one admitted that they ever, ever supported Nixon. I just smiled. And I’m convinced that within two years if – dear God – Bambi is installed as el Presidente, the same thing will happen.

    Or maybe McCain will win. Either way, I should dig out those cake pans….

  82. I wonder if the repubs are trying to lose this election.
    When Mc was on letterman and Letterman confronted him on terorists, plural…..Mc backed off, almost apologetic. why didn’t he mention Khalidi or Odinga?

    I read that over 70% of americans are against giving licenses to illegals…which BO supports. Licenses also allow illegals to register to vote in many states. Dick Morris thinks that this issue alone could cost O the election. why isn’t Dobbs or Hannity talking about it.

    I even wonder if dobbs has been coerced into leaving immigration alone until after the election. He has been incredibly quiet about an issue which really hurts O.

    Am I crazy?

  83. what happened to my comment? Was I moderated out?

  84. elderj, I wondered the same thing. BTW, I agreed with your comment. Thought it was spot on.

  85. Joseph Cannon has published an incredible summary of the Obama-Ayers/Dohrn relationship. It’s an email to FactCheck.org Fact Checking their FactCheck of the issue.

    It’s not just packed with information but, it’s also a clearly written narrative.

  86. IMO, the hatred toward women that has been let out of its former secret hiding place, is only surviving because the USA is still a very young nation.

    That doesn’t make it any less disgusting, just provides fodder for us (the hated women) to define ourselves and set our boundaries more clearly in this still-developing biomass, after we limit the effects of the unwanted invading organism.

  87. RD
    …not trying to be jerk (though probably succeeding)..

    My point, probably clumsily expressed, is that his opportunism is not inconsistent with him having an ideological agenda. And whatever it might be, socialist in nature or otherwise, he has one. His ideological mentors, the people with whom he has associated and sought out… He has an agenda.

  88. Betscha – your story can happen in this election except that non-Obama supporters are being harrassed to “support” him.

    Once they are alone with their voting ballot in front of them, there are no friends, no HAKA and no worries of harassment.

  89. From the frontlines:

    My mother is working for the elections board where we live. She is verifying signatures for the mail in ballots for the GE. She told me that she has seen ballots come in with Hillary’s name written on them (and a few Nader as well!)

    I for one will definitely be writing in Hillary’s name as long as the ballot doesn’t count for NObama.

  90. jvsp: I think SM summed it up pretty well when she pointed to his cozying up to the Reagan lovers. If he has an agenda, it is the accumulation of power to himself. I don’t believe there is anything more to it than that.

  91. “I went off on a tangent about Frank Lautenberg. He really ticked me off when he threw his support to Barack Obama. And I will never forgive Jon Corzine for giving my vote to Obama at the Convention.”

    Good to see another jersey girl totally pissed off at Lautenberg and Corzine. I don’t know which made me more angry, Lautenberg who at 136 years old didn’t have the balls to come out and endorse Hillary or Corzine who did, but turned on a dime at the convention. The only dem in NJ that I still have respect for is Sen. Menendez….I really let a friend who works in Corzine’s office have it one day this summer at the pool, she was basically in shock at my anger at the Convention vote theft and could only say “but instead of voting for McCain, couldn’t you just not vote at all??”

    nope! not then, not now, not ever.

  92. angry artist, I’ve been saying since January that the Republicans didn’t want to win this election. I think it’s because they know that whoever gets in will be booted out in four years. Things are a mess and probably the only candidate who could have had a chance at improving things was Hillary. IMO, that’s why some Republicans voted for Obama during the primaries NOT because of Hillary hate. (Way back in February The Washington Post quoted a Republican from my county saying he was a McCain supporter who voted for Obama.) My obot co-worker reminded me the other day that I’d made this prediction way back when, and said that it was the one thing that had him worried: he thought there was a good chance I was right.

  93. riverdaughter, on October 18th, 2008 at 8:19 pm Said:

    ” If he has an agenda, it is the accumulation of power to himself. I don’t believe there is anything more to it than that.”

    I think that’s right. I think a corollary is that BO will need more and more “power”, more and more recognition and applause for … what? Running for office? I predict that, should he win this race (and to me it is looking less and less likely that he will) his actions and record indicate that he will leave the running of the office of President to someone else while he engages in an even bigger perceived role on a global stage.

    He is mad, there is almost no doubt about that. I believe he cannot stop in his monumental ambition.

  94. re: a bookie paying out early for obama:


    Oft-erring bookie pays off on Obama

    DUBLIN–The race is over as far as Ireland’s biggest bookmaker is concerned. Paddy Power PLC is so sure Barack Obama will win the U.S. presidential election next month that it has already paid off on all bets it had taken backing the Democratic candidate.

    It says it shelled out more than 1 million euros, or about $1.6 million. “We declare this race well and truly over and congratulate all those who backed Obama – your winnings await you,” the company says in a statement:

    Paddy Power has a long tradition of collecting free publicity by paying off early, particularly on political bets. It also has a recent record of getting the result spectacularly wrong.

    In June, the company paid out early in favour of people who bet Irish voters would approve the European Union’s latest treaty in a referendum.

    The next day, a “No” result sent shock waves across the 27-country EU, and cost the company a hefty sum since it ended up paying off both sides of the bet.

  95. ainnj,

    a very, very good friend of mine (a relative of the legendary liberal TX Senator Ralph Yarborough) basically told me the same thing…but she said I was “throwing away my vote” because I indicated that I was going to write in HRC or vote Green. I told her that as hard as I have worked for the Dems for over 20 years, I earned the right to do whatever the f*** I wanted with my vote. A lot of brave people sacrificed and died so people like me could have the right to vote. I won’t minimize those sacrifices by “not voting at all”.

  96. and then there is this from New York Newsday:

    “The race is over as far as Ireland’s biggest bookmaker is concerned. Paddy Power PLC, which has been spectacularly wrong in the past, says it is so sure Barack Obama will win the U.S. presidential election next month that it paid off yesterday on all bets it had taken backing the Democratic candidate, saying it shelled out about $1.35 million. Paddy Power has a long tradition of winning free publicity by paying off early, particularly on political contests. “

  97. No serious bookie pays off early.

    Mine sometimes won’t payoff at all

  98. I posted this on the wrong thread — sorry!

    Great post RD — but I do have to correct you about ACORN — while on paper this organization should be something Dems. support, having grown up in NOLA (where ACORN is based) I can attest to the fact that ACORN does not so much help the poor, minorities etc. but cynical use them to consolidate power & money to the higher ups in the organization. ACORN is corrupt and has been for years.

  99. In 1968 I saw a Frontline show that made a profound impression on me – The Blue eye/Brown eye experiment. It seems this was appropriated, perverted and conducted on the electorate by the media for over a year now

  100. Katiebird,

    I just finished reading the piece on Ayers and Dohrn at Cannonfire. It’s excellent.

  101. I don’t understand the fear to try a third party. People’s conceptions about the fate of the new party will work like self fulfilling prophacy’ It is not have to be spitting image in structure like the existing ones. It will start like the real grass roots organiztion and grow from there. It may end up as a 3rd party, or better yet the path to reform the Democratic party.

  102. Did you see this–the latest authoritarian action by Dear Leader? I don’t think he’s a socialist–I think he leans more toward fascism.

    For Immediate Release
    October 17, 2008
    Contact: Press Office

    Statement On Obama Campaign’s Letter To Justice Department On Voter Fraud

    ARLINGTON, VA — Today, McCain-Palin 2008 Spokesman Ben Porritt issued the following statement in response to the Obama campaign’s letter to Attorney General Michael Mukasey:

    “After a week of shifting stories and clumsy corrections regarding Barack Obama’s connections to ACORN, the Obama campaign resorted to their now-customary heavy handed tactic of attempting to criminalize political discourse. Today’s outrageous letter to Attorney General Mukasey and Special Prosecutor Dannehy at the Justice Department asking for a special prosecutor to investigate Senator McCain and Governor Palin’s public statements about ACORN’s record of fraudulent voter registrations (including in this week’s Presidential debate) is absurd. It is a typical time-worn Washington attempt to criminalize political differences. For someone who promises ‘change,’ it is certainly only more of the same.

    “The letter’s request that the Department of Justice investigate ‘recent partisan Republican activities throughout the country’ is almost a parody of the Obama campaign’s attempt to intimidate their political opponents. In case Sen. Obama’s lawyer did not notice, we are in the midst of a political campaign, not a coronation, and the alleged criminal activity he calls ‘recent partisan Republican activities’ are what the rest of us call campaign speeches and debates. All of this is unfortunately reminiscent of the Obama campaign’s recent creation of a ‘truth squad’ of Missouri prosecutors and sheriffs to ‘target’ people who criticize Sen. Obama. Rest assured that, despite these threats, the McCain-Palin campaign will continue to address the serious issue of voter registration fraud by ACORN and other partisan groups, and compliance by states with the Help America Vote Act’s requirement of matching new voter registrations with state data bases to prevent voter fraud.”

  103. CK, on October 18th, 2008 at 6:43 pm Said:

    I am in complete agreement with what you have said here.

  104. Betuscha, I was just thinking today that should Obama get elected, he will either surprise us all by being a good President or we can look forward to four delicious years of schadenfreude. That is my positive spin in this situation.

  105. RD-great post

    I also believe that Obama is a poltitical opportunist with a definite agenda.

  106. Wanna Hear the Sound of Joe The Plumber-Smear Blowback?



  107. ugsome:

    Liberal men aren’t like that.

    Accept no imitations

  108. myiq:


  109. Hey has anyone seen the polls today, Obama’s lead is getting smaller. Gallup has one polls at 2 still, and the other at 4, went down from 6 yesterday.

    Funny, all of a sudden, the media hasn’t been doing any state by state polls.

  110. fif—”Did you see this–the latest authoritarian action by Dear Leader? I don’t think he’s a socialist–I think he leans more toward fascism.”

    Amen to that.

    Actually, in full progress socialism and fascism are just two sides of the same coin—control and limiting of the population.

  111. Ana, the way the media has “covered” this election is ridiculous. The bias is non-stop and nothing is too trivial to laud Obama for (look, he breathes!) or bash McCain or Palin. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a headline dissing Palin’s nail polish. It’s that absurd. I wish we could hold an election for the MSM and throw the bums out!

  112. if we ever needed a Democrat in the White House it is now…. having said that, I believe the “Sarah Palin is a C__T” t-shirt has finally pushed me into the McCain camp….

    Obama is a political opportunist, a misogynist, and a race baiter… and I have reached my limit.

    I don’t think he is a socialist. An asshole, yes…

  113. fif,

    The Obama campaign is in full panic mode now. They are lashing out at anyone and everyone. Their internal polls must be telling them they are losing ground.

    America is rising up and standing up! Working together, it is Americans that still believe in preservind the American Dream that will defeat Senator Government and his radical socialist agenda.

    No Socialism!

    Americans will not stand for a socialist in the White House.

    Polls are tightening up now. Expect more hoodwinks and bamboozling from Senator government. That IS Obama’s record…hoodwinking and bamboozling. Oh, and telling lies to the American people.

    America is not France, Senator Government!

    Obama’s radical socialist agenda is the antithesis of the American Dream and what America stands for!

    Thank god America is on to Obama’s BS and is standing up and fighting for our future!

    Keep standing tall for America!

    Joe and Jane the Plumbers unite!!

  114. RD
    IMHO based on how Obama has run his campaign, we only have evidence that he will do whatever it takes to obtain his “objective.” What that objective might be is another matter and far from obvious, which I think is the point.

    I will certainly agree that he will do anything to obtain power. As to whether or not he has an agenda beyond merely having the power, I hope we never have the unfortunate occasion of finding out; either way we would lose. I think we can agree on that 🙂

  115. Chimera–great letter to Att. Gen I just copied it and sent it too.

  116. I agree with everyone who has pointed out that Obama is an opportunist. He certainly gives the impression that for him ideologies are interchangeable and the only thing he consistently, and truly, believes in is his wonderful self.

  117. PS to Ana: Thanks for posting the good poll news. You’re right. I wouldn’t have known if you didn’t mention it.

    Saw a NObama bumper sticker next to a McCain/Palin Country First sticker and had to restrain myself from beeping and waving, but I savored a big ol’ grin.

  118. Did anyone else catch MO’s comments in North Carolina where she talke dabout her socialist views?

    Barack and Michelle Obama have a socialist agenda for America.

    Michelle Obama, speaking in North Carolins…

    “The truth is, most Americans don’t want much. Folks don’t want the whole pie. Most Americans feel blessed to thrive just a little bit. Someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so someone else can have more.”

    Hello America…THAT is Socialism!!!!

    And what does the MSM say about MO’s comments in Norh Carolina about her socialist views?

    Not. One. Single. Word.

    Not. One. Single. Story.

    T O T A L S I L E N C E


  119. myiq, you are absolutely right. And I thank our lucky stars for guys like you and my hubby. (And any more of you gents lurking out there.)

  120. txpolitico67, on October 18th, 2008 at 8:30 pm Said:

    a very, very good friend of mine (a relative of the legendary liberal TX Senator Ralph Yarborough) basically told me the same thing…but she said I was “throwing away my vote” because I indicated that I was going to write in HRC or vote Green. I told her that as hard as I have worked for the Dems for over 20 years, I earned the right to do whatever the f*** I wanted with my vote. A lot of brave people sacrificed and died so people like me could have the right to vote. I won’t minimize those sacrifices by “not voting at all”.

    PLEASE call your board of elections office to find out the rules for a Hillary Write-in.

    In FL, since Hillary’s campaign did not submit paperwork for hr name to be counted by the electoral college, a wrtie-in for Hillary will be a vote for Obama because they belong to the same party.

  121. RD – Another excellent post – I sent it to a friend to help explain what I am going through along with my other “formers”. It seems to be very inspiration as there are several really good posts –

    CK@6:43 said

    “For me, the only true Democratic Party (of FDR, Truman, JFK, the Clintons) died when BO was nominated via the corrupt, fraudulent process we all remember in vivid detail. That Party will never return, in my opinion.

    GWB nearly destroyed the GOP (and this country) by taking it too far to the right. That is a large part of what McCain-Palin are battling in this campaign, in addition to the results of GWB’s sheer ineptitude, arrogance and cronyism. But, BO’s radical authoritarianism has taken the Democratic Party so far to the left that I don’t believe it can ever be salvaged ”

    This is where I’m at. I think Obama thinks he has some idealogical agenda to bring to America, but he really doesn’t. He has not lived his life as a person seriously interested in serving a country or a party – he just wants to rule(as in Ruler) that’s his agenda. I think he and his supporters came from out of that portal PJ referred to – evil. Someone made a pac with the devil –
    supporters or Obama – which is the devil?

  122. Is anyone else watching Greta’s documentary on Obama and Bill Ayers on Fox News?

  123. gxm:

    I’m not a role model, I’m a bad example

  124. bb — I’m watching! I canceled plans for tonight to watch! lol

  125. SOD – Same here. I worry on a daily basis that my car will be vandalized because of my McCain sticker. Want some cake? 🙂

    ugsome – Schadenfreude is brilliant! We have some great minds here.

  126. A House Divided is putting it mildly. More like a burnt house still smoldering with lots of anger (speaking for myself FTR).

    I met this really nice guy who I went out with last night. He’s only 23 and is an Obamabot. When I defend Sarah Palin and bring up the unbelievable BS that the Obama people perpetrated here in the caucuses he tunes it all out. He chastizes me about a gay man defending McCain/Palin. Sh1t even the newest Advocate has on its front cover “Time to stop complaning about McCain.”

    How can a gay man, a self-respecting one, support Obama!??!!? He wouldn’t take a picture with Gavin Newsome, hangs out with Donnie McClurkin and Mary Mary. Any gay person supporting Obama is no better than a stupid a55 Log Cabin Republican. Those types of gays are the ones who must enjoy being in abusive relationships. Not me. Just say nope to the dope…and all his homophobic jerk friends.

  127. I said earlier (before my comment was inexplicable deleted) that Obama has spent much of his life around leftist radical authoritarian types and that he is no Democrat. He’s an Obamaist, pure and simple and he uses people and party to advance his own agenda.

    People are confused about whether he’s a socialist or not. He’s an authoritarian socialist in league with big business which = fascism. Both Mussolini and the fuhrer were noted for their magnetism and came to power in a time of economic uncertainty. The people who believe they can “handle” him once they get him in office are mistaken. This is a man who throws everyone from his grandmother to his pastor under the wheels of the bus for political expediency and never even seems rattled to do it. That is disturbing.

    His rhetorical giftedness reminds me of Hitler; his techocratic manipulation of party and politics reminds me of Stalin. He is a very dangerous man, especially with a lapdog media, a quiescent Congress, and with the tools of power handed to him by the Bush administration.

  128. IronMan, on October 18th, 2008 at 9:00 pm Said:
    Did anyone else catch MO’s comments in North Carolina where she talke dabout her socialist views?

    Barack and Michelle Obama have a socialist agenda for America.

    Michelle Obama, speaking in North Carolins…

    “The truth is, most Americans don’t want much. Folks don’t want the whole pie. Most Americans feel blessed to thrive just a little bit. Someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so someone else can have more.”

    So she can have more Iranian caviar and LOBSTAH.

  129. hey sm, giver her a break, she got the bollinger instead of the cristal 🙂

  130. Why are Barack and Michelle so obsessed with pie?

  131. Gary: LOL! I think they got the mini-bottles though.

  132. oldcoastie…let’s hope they’re eating some humble pie come nov. 5th.

  133. snap! A disciple of Saul Alinsky founded ACORN. Obama is also a disciple of Saul Alinsky. Things that make you go “hmmm.”

  134. I wonder who she was with (I would find it rather strange if she ate two whole lobsters, plus everything else. sounds like patsy and edina. michelle is obviously patsy…who would be edina???

  135. maybe its claire.

  136. gary — she took a doggie bag with her — she probably ate one there & took one for later so that the campaign would pay for it.

  137. AngiNC: The same guy that founded ACORN also founded the SEIU union too.

    ALL of them are affiliated with OBAMA.

  138. SEIU is big trouble imo — they use very dirty tactics.

  139. Gary – PLEASE don’t insult Patsy. I took a quiz to see who I was from the AbFab cast and I’m Patsy!

  140. SOD: That’s sad, but believeable.

  141. OMG leave Patsy and Eddy alone Sweetie Dahling!

  142. “The people who believe they can “handle” him once they get him in office are mistaken.”

    It’s exactly like Bush, except Bush listens to Cheney, while there’s no evidence that Obama listens to anybody.

  143. SM…LOL sorry 🙂 I love that show.

  144. sod — talk about “let them eat cake”

  145. I’m sorry, but Eddy would be the bigges obamabot of them all. she would be wearing the obama fashions for sure.

  146. “The people who believe they can “handle” him once they get him in office are mistaken.”

    My mom says the same thing about Obama — she thinks Pelosi, Dean, are going to be in for a big surprise if he gets elected, not just the rest of us.

  147. i would hazard to guess it would be saffy as more of an Obot.

  148. Greta is doing an expose on Obama and Ayers, Acorn etc. Its pretty good. Obama flat out lied to all of us in the last debate with McCain. Of course, we all knew that already.

  149. NH — and of course, CNN & MSNBC et al are too busy exposing Joe the Plumber to notice.

  150. Michele paid over 400.00 for that lunch. OMG. thats better than the 400.00 haircut.

  151. Gary-LOL Patsy would tell her shut up already about Obambi and have some damn champagne.

    NOOOO- TX: Saffy would be a PUMA decrying the voter fraud and sexism while Eddy just says, “but dahling, he’s black! W have to support him or Beyonce would never have me style her for the Brtish Music Awards.”

  152. NH:

    You can always tell when Obama is lying – his lips are moving

  153. RD – excellent piece.

  154. W= WE

  155. Yes, but I think people(non Obots – people who can still think for themselves) are really turned off. The guy asked a legit question and is being crucified by Obama’s minions.

    No citizen will be allowed to criticize him if he is elected.

  156. NH — one correction — MO didn’t pay for that lunch, the Obama campaign (that its donors) paid for that lunch. At least Edwards paid for his own haircut.

  157. LOL! myiq. I love that line.

  158. Oh, yeah angienc. I didn’t know that. His minions won’t care.

  159. I think so too Elderrj, but the problem is the Mainstream media doesn’t investigate him or his words very carefully, all they talk about is the tingle up their leg they get …he reminds me of hugo chavez or castro

  160. txpolitico67> You should also tell your friend that same-sex couples are entitled to health insurance in Alaska in part because of Sarah Palin. I suspect most people on the left aren’t aware of this. What exactly has Obama done for gay people? I’m under no illusion that Palin is a friend of the gay community, but she has this pretty big check mark in her column when it comes to doing something for the gay community. Obama’s column is still blank.

  161. You are right NH — they will not care because his minions are also from the lobster & caviar set.

  162. I have to keep my big mouth shut to keep the peace and I mightily resent it. I have discovered in this election cycle to what degree so-called liberal men are backstabbing hypocrites who really, truly, deep down inside think they’re smarter than women, resent us for not serving them hand and foot, and believe they get to be in charge. I have had it with these neoprog douches. Not one more nickel or a vote for a male candidate. They don’t need the goddamn help.

  163. Oh jeez — BO’s camp. is saying that McCain’s use of the term “welfare” in describing BO’s tax plan is r@cist. Can BO just release a list of words that are ok for us to say.

  164. ha ha yes SM, remember when she wanted to adopt romanian babies….then they all showed up whil saffy was do her presentation? Saffy would totally be a PUMA. Patsy would be having an affari with Rev. Wright..Meanwhile Eddy would be being rebirthed at an Women for Obama camp meeting.

  165. myiq2xu, on October 18th, 2008 at 9:36 pm Said:

    “NH: You can always tell when Obama is lying – his lips are moving”

    myiq, as you probably know, that’s an old doctor’s line about heroin addicts.

  166. I think that it is racist to assume that someone who is saying the word “welfare” is somehow referencing black people.

  167. I hate how every time BO is “forced” to explain his actions he points fingers at everyone else saying “they did it too” as if that explains anything about himself — just like after the Wright tapes came out he sent a picture of Bill Clinton shaking Wright’s hand at a breakfast or after the Rezko house deal he sent around a picture of Hillary & Rezko at some dinner.

  168. Yes, Angie SEIU is indeed big trouble -they stop at nothing and don’t care who they hurt. They really don’t help the workers -we have so many home health aides who will testify against them it isn’t funny.

    Dakinikat – the reality is that PUMAs aren’t just Dems – there are many Repugs who are also PUMAs.

  169. gary — yes, you are right — most people who are on welfare are white. The fact that people think the use of the word welfare is r@cist shows that they think all black people are on welfare.

  170. garychapelhill, on October 18th, 2008 at 9:43 pm Said:
    ha ha yes SM, remember when she wanted to adopt romanian babies….then they all showed up whil saffy was do her presentation? Saffy would totally be a PUMA. Patsy would be having an affari with Rev. Wright..Meanwhile Eddy would be being rebirthed at an Women for Obama camp meeting.


  171. Gary & angieNC: Exactly!! Just like the word “Terrorist,” “Welfare” does not instantly mean people of color. And if in their mind it does, then THEY’VE GOT A PROBLEM.

    It just proves how wrong O-bots are about race and language.

  172. angienc, on October 18th, 2008 at 9:48 pm Said:

    I hate how every time BO is “forced” to explain his actions he points fingers at everyone else saying “they did it too” as if that explains anything about himself — just like after the Wright tapes came out he sent a picture of Bill Clinton shaking Wright’s hand at a breakfast or after the Rezko house deal he sent around a picture of Hillary & Rezko at some dinner.

    angie, people have remarked on other posts how this behavior is typical of kids in their early teens, which is where BO probably still is mentally and emotionally due to his extensive, and admitted, drug habits.

  173. sod — exactly!

  174. well, they’re not actually racist. they’re just cynically pretending to care about racism to gain political poinst. It is not racist, it is shameless.

  175. I can’t believe how good this special is that Greta is doing. This is the best thing I’ve seen about Obama and his Chicago connections! I hope this wakes some people up.

  176. bb — it is great — I just wish everyone in this country would see it.

  177. There are more white people on welfare than black people

  178. I don’t need to see it, I been knowing Obama is scum for a while now

  179. BB- I saw your earlier comment that it was on and we’ve been watching it since. It’s really good. The just advertised a DVD copy of the report and I’m tempted to buy it.

  180. NH, on October 18th, 2008 at 9:33 pm Said:
    Greta is doing an expose on Obama and Ayers, Acorn etc. Its pretty good. Obama flat out lied to all of us in the last debate with McCain. Of course, we all knew that already.

    I was screaming at the TV “You lying sack of sh!t!” when Obama was disavowing Ayers and Acorn.

  181. sod — that is so sad — taking advantage of the mentally ill.

  182. Polls showed Kerry in the lead on October 17, 2004, 16 days before the election:

    Poll suggests Kerry has lead in swing states
    Last Updated: Sunday, October 17, 2004 | 9:15 PM ET

    John Kerry appealed to African-American voters on Sunday, as he pushed ahead with his campaign to unseat George W. Bush.

    Kerry promised the voters, many of whom feel the Republicans are trying to keep them off the voter lists, “We’re not going to let this be just a repeat of 2000. We’re not going to see a million African-Americans deprived of their votes in America,” he said.

    With just 16 days to go until the vote, the race couldn’t be tighter.

    Polls suggest a dead heat. Even Republican organizers concede the Democratic senator has benefited from his performance in the three presidential debates.

    And a Washington Post poll shows Kerry with a significant lead in important states that could decide the outcome of the election. The poll found Kerry held a 53 per cent to 43 per cent lead among likely voters in 13 such states.


  183. SOD – conveniently, St. Louis is pretty close to Illinois. as in…. a river separates the two….

  184. There is a baseball game on?

  185. Greta’s got a poll asking for feedback on her Obama Special.

  186. Greta rocks!!

  187. I’m having one of those “down” days. It’s sometimes unbearably depressing and lonely.

  188. Angie:

    Mentally ill = Obama’s base

  189. 57 states there are I tells ya!

  190. I hope Barack and Michelle are watching. Michelle must be freaking out! How dare that b*tfch Greta criticize poor Barack.

  191. myiq –LOL! you’re right!

  192. Katiebird,

    I can’t find the poll. Where is it?

  193. Joanelle, on October 18th, 2008 at 9:48 pm Said:
    Dakinikat – the reality is that PUMAs aren’t just Dems – there are many Repugs who are also PUMAs.

    and some of us Independents are PUMAs too!

  194. {{{waving at angie}}} Charade starts on the Retro channel in about 5 minutes

  195. bb: go to gretawire.foxnews.com — no “www” in front. It is on the top of the page & has about 5 choices.

  196. BB, Just gretawire.foxnews.com, it’s right at the top

  197. PUMA = Party Unity My Ass. By definition we are disaffected Democrats.

  198. Hi phlamingophred!!

  199. “Drill Here, Drill Now” performed LIVE by Aaron Tippin tonight:

    The song rocks and so will the vote for McCain-Palin ’08 on election day!

    Join me in saying NO DEAL to Senator Socialist!

    Country First!

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  200. Thanks KB and Angie. I guess I needed refresh. I was looking all over the page, but I must have had it open before the poll went up.

  201. I hope they run that sucker several times a day until Nov. 5.

  202. LOL – the “yes – and I would like to see it again” is at 74%

    I missed the first 40 minutes though – did she talk about them meeting before the alleged first meeting in 1995 at all?

  203. I’ve always liked Greta. It was a guilty pleasure when she was on Court TV. But, it’s not now. I’m really proud that she’s done such a good job this year.

  204. Crap. Sox and Rays tied 2-2.

  205. phred — yes they did — they talked about how he worked at the same law firm that Dohrn works at.

  206. Tie game

  207. October 18, 2008
    Obama’s Big Lie in the Last Debate


    Interestingly, despite their damning report on ACORN, CNN uncritically repeated what has now become the official Obama position on all his radical friends, to wit: “I hardly knew the man…” In the final presidential debate Wednesday night Obama reiterated that his only tie to ACORN was representing them along with the U.S. Justice Department, in a lawsuit demanding the Illinois state government enforce the new Motor Voter law. As with Ayers and Wright, he is lying. He knows it. And it is a Big Lie.

    A C O R N = F R A U D
    O B A M A = S O C I A L I S M

    As a fellow Hillary supporter and proud American, it is going to feel GREAT to join all of you and give ACORN and Senator Socialist the collective finger on election day! We will stand up and send Obama and ACORN back to Chicago as LOSERS!!

  208. That’s the same place MO worked

  209. angie,

    Unfortunately, they didn’t mention that Michelle was Barack’s mentor at that law firm and worked there at the same time as Dohrn.

  210. angie – no, I meant did they mention anything about them possibly meeting back when BO went to Occidental and Columbia?

  211. phred — no they didn’t mention anything about BO at Occidental or Columbia.

  212. Ironman:

    If Obama was really a socialist I would vote for him.

  213. MyIQ — me too.

  214. Jay-Z and Beyonce helped draw that 100K crowd in St Louis, plus bussing people in from IL.

  215. IronMan — Obama is a phony Socialist just like he is a phony Democrat — Obama is about Obama first, foremost and only. I’m not worried about Obama getting in the WH because he is a “socialist” I’m worried about him getting in the WH because I don’t know what he is.

  216. Me too katiebird, I love Greta. Her show was the first one I started watching on the dreaded FOX. And now FOX is my only shelter from the Obamaganda storm. Oh what a world!

  217. RalphB — ARE you kidding? (what am I saying — of course it happened like that)

  218. Did everyone hear about the new info on Obama’s mansion? I was wrong about the bank that is being looked into, but it’s worse news for Barack. It looks very suspicious that Mrs. Rezko overpaid for the lot next to the mansion by $125K. Wonder what that was about? Sounds like someone was paid to be quiet (realtors, seller)? Or money to Obama? Fizgerald appears to be getting closer to Obama rather than Gov Blagovich.

  219. Betuscha

    Cake is always good for what ails ya. Give me a slice! 🙂

  220. I was wandering around a mall larger than most airports today when I saw the happy hopey changey crew voter-registration stand. They had a large cardboard cutout of the candidate. Symbolic indeed. I behaved myself and walked by.

    I was SO tempted to get baseball cap at the hat shop customized with the Mudflap Girl and the legend “Another Cunt for McCain/Palin,” but resisted the urge.

    I’m no fun any more.

  221. Have you all read Joseph Cannon’s newest post, “The ultimate guide to the Ayers controversy

  222. Rhetorical giftedness?

  223. bb — I haven’t heard about that — where did you read it? (I’m assuming not in the msm)

  224. myiq2xu: I have nothing against a committed, thoughtful socialist–Bernie Sanders springs to mind–but I agree, O is not a real socialist.

  225. ugsome — that hat sounds fun to me! lol

  226. myiq,

    Me too. I just don’t buy that Obama is a socialist. If I really believed it, I’d be supporting him. He’s a user. It was convenient to pretend ot be a left winger in Chicago, and when he wanted to go national it was convenient to toe the DLC line.

    Red Sox go ahead 3-2!!!!!!!!!!

  227. Bosox take 1 run lead

  228. garychapelhill — humble pies in the face would be entertaining…

  229. Damn that was fast!

    I typed my last comment while the runner was still rounding the bases and BB still beat me

  230. They’re going after Cindy McCain? Gawd.

  231. SOD,

    Greta printed a letter from Cindy to the NYT. She pointed out that the NYT hasn’t gone looking for Barack Obama’s drug dealer. LOL!

  232. What the hell is the Obama’s obsession with pie?
    Someone wrote a very witty piece about Obama setting the record for saying “pie” in a speech.
    Maybe Uppity Woman? Don’t recall. But I saw that he was at it again today… pie this….pie that… picture of me with pie…they didn’t have sweet potato pie, they had cocoanut cream pie… on and on.
    And now upthread I see someone has mention that Michelle is talking pie distribution.
    What is the farking obsession with pie? Why are these people’s minds stuck on pie. I swear if the media pick up “pie” like “at the end of the day”, I am going to destroy my TV.

  233. SOD – because once you have a possible current/former cocaine user in the White House, BOs usage doesn’t really matter to anyone

  234. angie

    She probably just throws it out.

  235. It just occurred to me how ridiculous it is that after 24 months of campaigning, and two weeks to the election, we are all here speculating about who Obama really is. What is wrong with this picture?

    The Fourth Estate is dead.

  236. Hi fif!

  237. angie,

    If you read any of the articles about Obama’s Chicago connections, you’ll find it. I don’t have a specific link right now. Michelle graduated from Harvard Law before Barack did. She got him the summer internship at the law firm. She may have introduced Barack to Bernadine and Bill. I think it’s also possible that Bill and Barack met in NY, but we will probably never know for sure.

  238. SOD
    Oh, we ought to mention this charming aspect of the NYT “investigative journalism” as reported by FOX:

    “The McCain camp also condemned New York Times reporter Jodi Kantor, who co-wrote the feature, for e-mailing a 16-year-old friend of the McCain’s youngest child, seeking more information on Cindy McCain.”

  239. “The Fourth Estate is dead.”

    I’d have to agree.

  240. not one word from the MSM in their articles fawning over the big crowd that JZ and Beyonce were involved.

    Oh gawd…the thing is, none of the staged events with special goodies to bring people in have translated into votes. They have fawned over the size of his crowds for months, culminating in the Invesco Field fiasco, and what difference does it make? It just makes those of us who think he is a fraud go “huh?” and it creeps people out who have not been absorbed by the Pods.

  241. Hi phlaming! 🙂

  242. Sox are leading 4-2!!!! Yay!

  243. I’ll take a “beer heiress” over a supermodel any day.

  244. SOD – I didn’t think you were talking about first ladies in that post since you had pasted something about BOs youthful drug use

  245. So will Obama called for an investigation into Greta?

  246. Britannia, Some people don’t realize that Cindy McCain is closer to being Joan of Arc than Barbie.

  247. fif — I wrote to all the stations (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN) and asked them to please tell me when the Fourth Estate turned into the Ministry of Truth & haven’t received any answers. Maybe I should have explained to them that Ministry of Truth is from Orwell’s 1984 because I don’t think any of them were smart enough to “get it.”

  248. mccain compared obama’s idea of the economy and govt spending to a pie in the last debate. He said that obama looked at it like a pie, that can only be carved up into so many pieces. Mccain on the other hand said he saaw it as something that could continually grow so that everyone could eventually get more.

  249. Joe never disappoints:

  250. sod — I believe what you are thinking of is that police are not allowed to question a minor without parental consent — I don’t know of any laws extending that to journalists.

  251. gxm: And now FOX is my only shelter from the Obamaganda storm. Oh what a world!

    lol Obamaganda! Such a witty PUMA pack we have here.

  252. More insurance runs please. I don’t trust the bullpen.

  253. IronMan: Perhaps you misunderstood what I have been saying about my political philosophy. I am in favor of progressive taxation. I believe that people who are making more money should pay more in taxes than people who make not as much. The vast majority of the unwashed masses are hard working but have lo paying jobs with few benefits. They deserve protection from a robust social safety net. If it happens to be the case that a few ne’erdowells benefit, so what? Does that mean we have to screw the people who are honorable, hardworking but working class?
    The problem with Republicans is that they tend accept the directions of their leaders to direct their attention downwards in the pecking order. They never look up.
    If you are earning millions of dollars, you can afford to pay a little more in taxes. If you are earning millions of dollars, you benefit more from the infrastructure that government provides than the average Joe the Plumber. Joe the Plumber needs a tax relief but not the multimillionaire.
    That’s not socialism. That’s progressivism. That’s fair.
    It may make you unhappy but that’s what most of the founders of this blog believe.

  254. I can see a klingon eating two lobster…but I doubt thay would drink champagne.

  255. I was sorry to see that Greta didn’t take some of these stories all of the way. She dug pretty deep… but then
    they’d edit in an Obamapologist. I hate when they do that.

    They left out Obama connections with Ayers such as the speaking engagement that MO set up on
    ultra violent children and whether they should be in the
    adult justice system..

    And though they flushed out the Weather Underground info some, they didn’t really bring it home… the WU set off a huge amount of bombs… and the most scurilous that bloggers have recently covered was at the private home of a family where the family was inside.

  256. Sharon,

    Obama doesn’t need to worry about Greta as much as Patrick Fitzgerald.

  257. questioning a journalist with their parents’ permisssion?

  258. You know how “some people say” they worry about if McCain goes bellyup: Palin isn’t ready? Well, I wonder if Barky goes down in flames (due to shady dealings, etc etc), Mr WhiteAndBeenInCongressFor35Years gets to be the HopeNChange PrezNom? Smells like a big setup to me.

  259. Thanks, RD. I’m with you. We are liberal Democrats here. Obama is not liberal enough for me. He is a Reaganite in my book.

  260. BostonBoomer & KatiBird:

    i just read the Cannfore piece, AWESOMELY written and documented.

    One thing that freaked me out – the Annenberg Foundation is a major sponsor of PBS & NPR. It just dawned on my when I saw their logo in Cannon’s article.

  261. SOD – I agree with that statement and wish they would investigate his drug use. However, my comment was a reference about Bush and his drug use, so BO’s druge use would be no big deal to most people.

  262. angie,
    I don’t know. The media models might know of 1984.
    Um.. did it ever come out in comic book form?

  263. sorry – druge = drug

    I’m not even that tired and can’t type tonight.

  264. Isn’t it hypocritical for all those anticipating McCain’s imminent demise, but you know they’d scream racism at anyone suggesting Bamma may not make it through the next 4 years? (sorry my grammar kinda stinks)

  265. gary: it’s hard to see how the pie can grow outside the boundaries of the pan. Of course, we’ve all had the experience of overfilling the quiche, but I digress.
    His metaphor makes no sense. Republicans seem to want to keep the proportions the same for the classes instead of making a fairer distribution. heck, they’re depressed wage increases so much that they’ve contributed greatly to the mortgage crisis when hardworking American’s salaries couldn’t keep pace with house prices. Why not make the pie slices a bit fairer? Why is it sooooo hard to share a little more of the profits? God knows, the workers have more than earned it.
    That’s not socialism. That’s progressivism. That’s fair.

  266. SOD, he’s sitting right here beside me. I’ll give him a scratch for you! He’s still a puppy but he’s about 4 times bigger than in my pic..

  267. SM, I’ve been noticing that too (Annenberg & PBS & NPR) — also that they fund FactCheck.org.

  268. RD, I agree…somebody said that Obama was always mentioning pie. I was just pointing out that mccain used the metaphor too. 🙂

  269. SOD,
    re liable and slander and the press.
    They have a loophole through that terrain which is so big you can’t even see the perimeters of it.

    You have to prove malice on the part of the press.
    It is nearly impossible to prove. If the child intentionally
    lied to the press, they would be immune… they would say they had no malice in reporting what the child said.

  270. RD – pie, quiche and I saw cake earlier – I’m getting hungry now.

  271. SM,

    Annenberg isn’t responsible for what Ayers, et al. did with the grant though.

  272. Britannia, Some people don’t realize that Cindy McCain is closer to being Joan of Arc than Barbie.

    The person that came to my mind was Audrey Hepburn. No, they’re not perfect souls, and they’ve had their devils to contend with, but by jove they did sincerely try to make a difference.

  273. (nodding at what Riverdaughter said)

  274. I thought Obama himself said that family was off limits. It’s really stupid of the NYT to bring up Cindy’s former drug problems. She’s not running for President. But Obama is and this just opens the door to bring up his past drug use.

  275. sod — your concerns about a journalist talking to a minor are not unfounded & I believe it is certainly unethical for a journalist to do so without the minor’s parent’s ok but I don’t believe there are any laws preventing it from happening. Nonetheless, the fact that the journalist tried to talk to that 16 year old without her parents permissions shows how much of a hack that guy is.

  276. I’M CONFLICTED!!!

    My daughter is watching the Sox/Rays game – I just can’t. She’s rooting for the Rays while I’m stuck in betrween.

    Being born a Masshole but living in Tampa doesn’t help.

    Whatever, whoever wins I’ll be happy.

  277. RD & BB: were either of you aware of how low the percentage of tax revenues contributed by corporate America has been? Any connection between this and Bambi’s record-breaking contributions?


  278. I don’t like to use the word “progressive” anymore, because I associate it with DK, TPM, etc. But I strongly believe in the progressive income tax. When JFK was president, the top tax bracket was 75%. Of course there were loopholes, but corporations paid taxes then. The 1960s were the most prosperous era in my lifetime–more so than the 90s even. In those days a family could live well on one income.

  279. SOD
    I despise the press more than I do Obama. They anointed the @sshole and deprived this nation of a pragmatist, someone who HAS solutions. And yet, nothing will happen to them. Nothing.

  280. The NY Times has completely sacrificed any semblance of journalistic integrity and credibility. What is going on over there? It’s worse than the NY Post now with it’s relentless attacks and “investigative” pieces that are thinly disguised hit jobs on only one party.

  281. Angie:

    what the heck?

  282. SM,

    Root for the Sox tonight. It will be more fun if it goes to the seventh game.

  283. gary, thanks for pointing out the origins of the “pie”.
    I think Obama is now gulty of pie malpractice. It’s pie this, pie that. He’s listing types of pie for goodness sake. Sweetpotatoe, chocolate cream, cocoanut cream. It’s like listening to SlingBlade or that
    Dustin Hoffman character.

    If I had any money and thought the stock market was a good place to put it, I’d take a close look at pie companies. Those Obamadroolers are gonna be wanting pie pretty bad.

  284. Gary / Angie

    why are they making that association?

  285. bb — I’ve never used the word progressive — I’ve only used the word liberal to describe myself — I always thought people started to use the word “progressive” to make themselves more “acceptable” to the Right — I never felt the need to make myself more palatable to the Right.

  286. all this talk about pie is making me hungry.

  287. I don’t have a problem with Obama being too liberal, or too conservative, the problem that I have with him is that appears to have absolutely no moral or ideological compass. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

  288. Ok BB – I’ll try – do you tickets are a minimum of $500 a seat? They’re sold out BTW.

  289. Crossing Paths Daily: Obama and Ayers Shared an Office For Three Years

    115 S. Sangamon Street, Chicago, Illinios 60607


  290. I’m still queasy from drinking too much last night.

  291. I’m out for the rest of the evening – don’t forget Palin on SNL tonight!

  292. SM,

    $500? That’s nothing. Did they sell out? The Rays never seem to fill their stadium.

  293. 100K in St Louis MO today?

  294. I’m queasy from reading IronMan’s link.

  295. Iron Man,

    If that is true, I suggest you send the info to both Larry Johnson and the McCain campaign.

  296. I didn’t read the link yet. Going now.

  297. For those that missed it this morning, have a listen to McCain’s weekly radio address:

    [audio src="http://www.johnmccain.com/Downloads/wra1017.mp3" /]

    “As Joe the Plumber has now reminded us all, America didn’t become the greatest nation on earth by letting government “spread the wealth around.” In this country, we believe in spreading opportunity, for those that need jobs and those who create them. And that is exactly what I intend to do as President of the United States.”


    Country First!!

  298. Ironman,

    That link should go to Greta, Hannity, Limbaugh, and anyone else you can think of.

  299. Stanley Kurtz at The Corner should get the link too.

  300. IronMan — Did you see Riverdaughter’s comment about the importance of the Progressive Income Tax in the United States?

  301. And they can figure out if it’s true or not….

  302. SOD – I should have also mentioned your point about the 4:1 spending. although BO is still over 6% ahead, he should be way further ahead with that amount of money spent on advertising and greasing the wheels.

    Maybe a lot of the cash is going on high quality coke for the workers?

  303. If it’s a runaway then he should have run away by now.

    This happened throughout the primaries also. It’s not that Obama didn’t win primaries. But, he never reached the point where he swept the primaries.

    His grip on the affections of voters is very weak.

  304. katiebird, that’s right. He has difficulty closing the deal. There’s something about him that the average Jane and Joe don’t trust (!!). It’s not just us old bitter, shrill, Hillary supporters.

  305. So now that the NYTimes has done a hit piece on Cindy McCain, I have the same question.

  306. Funny Ralph B!

  307. Good BB — they should do an ad about it to

  308. Ugh, I hope McCain isn’t going to fall into this trap his base is setting for him. Last week i saw some Republican on Fox moaning about redistribution of wealth and figured that meant Fox was out to get him too if they were giving him such horrible advice.

    “RCP averages a range of polls”

    Yeah, but the problem with that is that you have to look at each individual poll, the methadology, the sample size, etc. Personally, I don’t see the point of averaging polls when there’s a large spread in terms of how they’re conducted, but that could just be me.

  309. phlamingo — well that’s funny because we’ve had more than one.

  310. jvsp — now that’s just GROSS.

  311. myiq2xu — 😉

  312. phlamingo — Mac went back at the NYT for attacking Cindy.

  313. but angie…are they potentially subjecting themselves to liable or slander? Who would be responsible if the 16year old lied to the journalist? the parents?

  314. GCH – I just love your “macho” gravatar. I wish I could scratch him behind the ears he’s so cute! (I love puppies – can’t you tell?

  315. Was that it? Do I have to stay tuned to SNL to see if Palin comes back?

    I really like Tina Fey but Sarah Palin totally outshone her and having her come on (however briefly) right after Tina just showed that the resemblance isn’t really all that striking. Tina’s very attractive AND funny but she just doesn’t have the Sarah sizzle.

  316. Quite impressive — NOT

  317. Seriously, on October 18th, 2008 at 11:30 pm Said:

    “Personally, I don’t see the point of averaging polls when there’s a large spread in terms of how they’re conducted, but that could just be me.”

    Seriously, it’s a good pint you make, but averaging is a simple, if not simplistic, method of smoothing out the data. You’re absolutely right about different, and somewhat crap methodologies in different polls.

  318. Whoops “point”, not “pint’

  319. Hope I didn’t BS you guys about the St Louis crowd. This came up on google, but I can’t find it anywhere else. Grrrrr.

    Video Feed of St. Louis/Obama RallyOct 18, 2008 … For what it’s worth… Video feed from St.Louis/Obama rally …. As usual they bused people in and held a concert…Jay=z Beyonce….Obama …
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2109043/posts – 4 hours ago – Similar pages – Note this

  320. RD,

    I appreciate what you are saying. But you know that our economy is hurting right now.

    Here are my thoughts:

    Right now, the last thing we need is a tax increase on small businesses in America. And we certainly don’t need to increase taxes on capital gains. Raising taxes on small businesses during tough economic times = jobs killer.

    Obama’s radical, socialist tax scheme is the antithesis of economic growth.

    Neither I nor Joe the Plumber or even McCain is talking about people making millions of dollars when it comes to exposing Obama’s radical taxation scheme.

    We’re talking about small businesses in America that pay the paychecks for hard working Americans and create the jobs that serve as the engine that drives our economy.

    Note: Barack Obama believes that 98% of small businesses in America (the engine that creates jobs and drives the economy) make UNDER $250k / year. He said this in the debate Wednesday night. It is a total lie!

    The truth is that the median (the average) income or revenue for small businesses in America is just a little under $250k per year. That means that nearly ½ of small businesses make more than $250k per year. And Obama wants to increase their taxes. Obama wants to punish prosperity during an economic crisis. That is insane! How do you think those small businesses will pay for those tax increases?

    Will they A) Increase prices of goods and/or services B) Hire less employees C) Cut jobs D) Cut hours for employees E) Cut benefits or F) All of the above.

    Under Obama’s radical, socialist tax scheme, F would be the answer and that would spell Failure for millions of Americans in search of and trying to hold on to the American Dream.

    With the economy today, Obama’s tax plan would INCREASE taxes on small businesses to give a welfare check to over 40 million Americans that do NOT pay Federal Income tax. When Obama says he will cut taxes for 95% of working Americans, he is not telling the truth.

    Getting an income tax “credit” under Obama’s plan for income taxes that one does NOT pay has nothing to do with the progressive income tax, but it has everything to do with spreading the wealth around aka socialism aka taking more of someone’s hard earned pie and giving it away in the disguise of a tax credit to someone that is already not paying income tax. If that sounds like welfare, it’s because it is welfare.

    Obama’s radical, socialist tax scheme would be the biggest welfare program in the history of America. And the guy still wants to increase spending by over $1 trillion. That’s senator Government’s plan and it will hurt our economy BIG time.

    Economics 101 tells you that you do not raise taxes during tough economic times. Hoover did it and then we had the Great Depression. Raising taxes during tough economic times is the antithesis of growing the economy. Raising taxes on small businesses = jobs killer.

    Obama also wants to raise taxes on capital gains. Why would any sane person be in favor of such a boneheaded plan during tough economic times? Will increasing the tax on capital gains help create and drive investment in the stock market? Will that help the millions of Americans out there grow their 401k plans? Nope, not a bit.

    RD, back to your economic or political philosophy concerning taxation, I am glad you are in favor of progressive taxation. I am, too, and so is John McCain.

    Obama wants to increase taxes on small businesses and capital gains during tough economic times. That will hurt our economy and kill jobs. I disagree with that kind of philosphy, political or otherwise. I hope you do as well.

  321. I don’t want to burst your hope bubble, but that’s most likely not correct. RD has mentioned several times how the polls are likely quite wrong. That may well be true, and I hope it is. But we should not do is pick and choose a poll that gives us the result we want. RCP averages a range of polls. they have had BO ahead by more than 6% for over a week.The last time they were tied on the RCP poll average was 09/17.

    There are reasons to believe that BO is in trouble. His lead should be accelerating – it’s not. It has actually fallen slightly, with support for him falling and support for McCain/Palin rising. If it’s a runaway then he should have run away by now. The ACORN issue is now big on CNN as well as on Fox. The Ayers issue is not going away for BO. His citizenship will probably emerge in a few days to a week. He is getting increasingly desperate and rattled, as posts here indicate. He did not like McCain calling him on ACORN, and is desperation n appealing to the Attorney General is evident. But he is still ahead in the polls by more than 6%.

  322. I do understand the polling data is currently skewed — this is par for the course and comparable to prior elections.

  323. RD, I love your posts and almost always agree but I have to quibble slightly with what you say here. I DO think Obama is a socialist, not an opportunist. Just because he has not openly advocated socialist policies before now does not mean he rejects them. His life has been saturated, through his own initiative, choice, and design, with extreme leftists.

    In an unguarded moment, he finally let slip his real beliefs. We are to “spread the wealth around.” That is not the same as “paying your fair share,” or “helping the least of your brethen.” It is redistribution. Big Brother will take what you’ve got and redistribute it as He sees fit. As an old fashioned liberal, what would now be called a moderate Democrat, I believe we need to look after each other, but I draw the line at socialism. Not only is it authoritian by nature, it has been a near universal failure where it has been tried.

    I lived for many years in a country that went much further down the road to socialism than we ever have in the US. I was taught at my liberal university that the American dream was a fallacy because few people ever actually succeeded in achieving it. The majority were doomed to live their entire lives in the same class they were born into. We mocked this country, feeling smugly superior although we had even less chance of somehow rising through our own class system. What I have learned from living in this amazing country for the past 12 years is that while everyone will not succeed, we have a better chance here than anywhere else in the world.

    That will end with Barack Obama as President. Perhaps in and of itself that would not be so bad, if it meant life would improve for the bulk of Americans, but there is nothing to indicate that would be the case. The standard of living would go down for a great many people, and, as is the case with most socialist states, power and wealth would be concentrated in an even tinier minority. Economic implications aside, I firmly believe that most Americans truly value their right to free speech, something for which the Obama campaign has shown their disdain.

    Obama’s closest and longest associations have been with people who despise this country and some of them actively sought its destruction. Take note of his closest associate’s own words, for example. Michelle Obama has never been proud of her country, considers it a mean place, and tells us we will HAVE to both work harder and give up a piece of our pie. She also tells us we can’t expect to continue to heat our houses and drive our cars as much as we want to either but not to worry, her husband knows what’s best for us.

    Under Obama, we will become a nation of serfs living our lives in the service of the likes of Ayers, Rathke, and Soros.

  324. […] Another fascinating post from my favorite PUMA site, The Confluence […]

  325. I can not fathom how Obama has been able to mesmerize almost haft the population. That in itself is scary. The more we learn about him the scarier it gets and the more it looks like a cult everyday. I was an old liberal to about three months ago, but now I am ashamed of the party. I live in an urban neigborhood and can not put up a yard sign. They will be stolen and your cars damaged. Can not even wear a T shirt. God help us if he wins. For those of you who are sitting on the fence and thinking third party, please do not.

  326. It is fact that the New Party claimed Obama as one of their own when he was elected as Illinois Senator, and that Obama spoke on behalf of the New Party as well. That Google 10th Anniversary Search Engine has the links.

    I don’t believe he’s as much a socialist now as he is a fascist.

  327. I did a story on my blog about Obama and the New Party. Found a page at the Democratic Socialists of America site about the meeting where Obama showed up to request their endorsement. The article says that in order to get their endorsement candidates had to sign a contract agreeing to maintain an “active and visible relationship” with the New Party.


    It’s another thing Obama lied about. He said his only connection with New Party was they endorsed him, but the article says he had to do more.
    That New Party office was an arm of ACORN

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