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How Dare You Question Dear Leader?

What The Heck Did I Do?

What The Heck Did I Do?

Poor Joe The Plumber. All he wanted to do was make an informed decision in this year’s election. So, he asked Barack Obama whether or not Obama’s proposed tax plan would affect him if he should buy a business that makes $250,000 – $280,000 a year. It’s a normal question for today’s taxpayer worried about the rising costs of living. Everyone’s freaking out about taxes these days – even my hubby, who is scared spitless by McCain’s proposal to tax health benefits paid by his company.

Unfortunately, Obama was without his teleprompter, and said something that triggered massive alarms throughout the land. Here is the whole interview without all of the editorial commentary that’s been added to it. The key moment is at 4:46.

Whooooops!

Let’s leave the question of socialism aside for a moment. Here’s what I think about Obama, McCain and taxes: Every single President coming into office during a time of economic trouble has raised taxes. Remember George H. W. Bush in 1988? “Read my lips: No new taxes.” As soon as he saw the utter destruction Reagonomics had wrought upon the Treasury, he raised taxes – but not enough to turn the economy around. So Bill Clinton raised taxes again – hugely – when he came into office. It took two years, but finally enough money was raised to begin reversing the disastrous effects of 12 years of “voodoo” economics. And surprisingly enough, when President Clinton left office, the Treasury was overflowing and the economy was booming. Amaaaaazing!

In my opinion, when the new President takes office, taxes are going to be the least of our problems. Cost-of-living increases and joblessness are going to be far larger issues. I lived through the Carter era, and I think it’s going to happen again. Nonetheless, I am certain that my taxes will be raised by either Obama or McCain. As Democratic Presidential nominee Walter Mondale said in 1984,

By the end of my first term, I will reduce the Reagan budget deficit by two-thirds. Let’s tell the truth. It must be done, it must be done. Mr. Reagan will raise taxes, and so will I. He won’t tell you. I just did.

You tell ’em, Walter! Buckle up, America: the taxman cometh. I can’t imagine any other outcome, especially with the majority Democratic Congress that will be taking power.

The strange thing about Obama’s statement is that he should have known better. The purpose of taxes in a capitalist system, which the last time I checked we still had (barely), is not to re-distribute wealth, but to raise revenue for the government so that it has enough money to function properly. In addition, the socialist idea of wealth re-distribution is extremely unpopular in mainstream America, so you would think that a candidate for President would avoid even the appearance of favoring such a thing.  But since Barack Obama has been surrounding himself with a cocoon of left-wing radicalism in Chicago, it seems he doesn’t understand either of those things.

True to form, Obama’s supporters cannot acknowledge the fact that The One made a gaffe of epic proportions. A distraction is needed to take our minds off the fact that Obama appears to favor socialism over capitalism. So, they do their master’s bidding, and swarm upon Joe like the rabid animals they are – all with the obliging aid of the corporate media, and as an added bonus, screaming “RACISM!” all the way.

I’ll tell you plainly that this type of hysteria scares the shit out of me. For Gawd’s sake, the guy just asked Obama a standard conservative question about his taxes. The answer was: “Yes, under my plan, your income taxes will increase about 3% if you make over $250,000 a year. You may have some offsets in the form of a tax cut on health care and the capital gains tax, however.” The end. Was Obama obligated to say the words “spread the wealth around?” No! Why did he, then? I think that’s a very valid question.

Is this what we have to look forward to in an Obama administration? Any type of dissent or questioning is not permitted, especially if it exposes any weakness in him?

No wonder the Senator from Illinois voted “yes” on FISA. Warrantless wiretapping just makes it so much easier to root out and expose the dissenters, doesn’t it? 

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199 Responses

  1. […] Comments How Dare You Question Dear Leader? « The Confluence on Jimmy Carter’s Greatest HitsHow Dare You Question Dear Leader! « Oooh, nuance! […]

  2. Actually, one of the purposes of taxation is to redistribute wealth.

    That’s what social security, medicare, and the whole “social safety net” are all about.

    If everything could be funded by private savings for retirement, health care, and whatnot, then there would be no need to fund such institutions through taxes.

  3. To be honest, I think what they have done to Joe the Plumber is what might piss off what Nixon called the silent majority of this country. People are starting to wake up.

    And like I said before, I don’t buy any of those polls, if Obama was really ahead, ACORN, wouldn’t be cheating for him.

  4. Interesting AP poll that has it at 44% for Obama, 42% for McCain. What is really interesting is that there were 873 democrats polled, and 650 republicans.

  5. Sorry for the OT: Full Supreme Court just sided with Ohio Secy of State Jennifer Brunner. SH*T. Man, my sympathies to Pagan Power and OH, ur screwed.

  6. BREAKING NEWS: The Supreme Court just ruled in FAVOR of Brunner’s attempt to block voter registration verification in Ohio. It was the full court’s decision, not just Stevens.

    WTF?

  7. Ana: is that accurate breakdown of likely voters?

  8. “No wonder the Senator from Illinois voted “yes” on FISA. Warrantless wiretapping just makes it so much easier to root out and expose the dissenters, doesn’t it?”

    madamb,
    you have voiced my exact thoughts on this matter. FISA is something that I can imagine Obama drooling over when he voted ‘yes’. He wants that power, he needs that power, oh yes precious, Barry needs it.

  9. What they did to Sarah Palin totally pissed off the Silent Majority (and a few of us not-so-silent folks too) and this just tosses on more gasoline.

  10. bye bye Democracy, hello Mickey Mouse and Abraham Lincoln voting for Obama in OH.

  11. Ana – That is PUMA power for you.
    First time poster, long time reader!

  12. True, but there are better ways to redistribute wealth than by effectively giving some checks.

    I like the German model. Everyone, from the poor to the rich gets medical care, a college education (even I as a foreign student did not pay tuition), etc. Thus everyone benefits equally.

    My friend married there. As students they paid 30 marks a month for 100% health care (including vision and dental). Over the years her husbands wages increased considerably. He was not paying 400 marks per month. The 100% benefits did not change. There were no additional medical bills to pay. Their kids still get a university education with no tuition.

    These are just a few examples…

  13. *some people

  14. Florida Surfer – I respectfully disagree with you on that premise. Wealthy people do not use Medicare or Social Security, nor do people who make more than a certain amount of money even pay into Social Security.

    True redistribution of wealth requires a commitment by the government to actually seize assets of wealthy people, including their property, and give them to poorer people. Social Security and Medicare do not meet that standard, because their primary beneficiaries are people who have ALREADY paid for them through taxes.

  15. In addition, the socialist idea of wealth re-distribution is extremely unpopular in mainstream America…

    That’s true; benighted Americans like myself are not with the program of taking money at gunpoint from Joe the Plumber and giving it to ACORN, even after heavy dosages of media brainwashing. In certain countries this sort of problem is solved by reeducation camps.

  16. LB and all – OMG! How could the Supreme Court do that?!

    Holy crap!!!

  17. madamab — Obama said the spread the wealth, income redistribution “throwaway” line because it’s deeply embodied in him. Perhaps, in the end, this line and plumber Joe will actually lose him the election — that is, if the votes get counted. Ohio’s Brunner and Obie shill Stephanie Cutter are the ones really scaring me, right now.

  18. The Supreme Court sided with blocking voter registration verification. WTF? All I can think is that maybe the Republicans have registered some dead people too.

  19. Scares the sh*t outta me too, madamab.

    I feel, though, that this freaking hysterical trashing on this poor guy is gonna resonate with people.
    On par with the “bitter, clingy” stuff.

    BO has zero ablility to relate to people like Joe, I don’t care how many times he rolls up his sleeves and pretends like he gives a f*ck.

  20. So will Colin Powell be accused of r@cism if he endorses Obama?

  21. Good grief. The Republicans think I’m a socialist, and the Obamabots think I’m a Republican!

    LOL.

    Obama did not say “spread the money around.” He said “spread the wealth around.” That’s different. Why did he say that?

    And again, there is a difference between funding the government properly (the American system), and actively taking money and property from rich people and giving it to poor people (socialism/Communism).

    I am all in favor of the Big Dawg’s economic policies, as I thought I made clear. I think returning to the Clinton era of taxation is the ONLY THING that will save the economy, and even that may not be enough.

  22. Is FOX sure??

    None of the other MSM outlets have that headline, yet….

  23. Wealthy people do not use Medicare or Social Security, nor do people who make more than a certain amount of money even pay into Social Security.

    Spend some time in St. Petersburg, FL. You’ll find wealthy retirees hanging out at the Vinoy hotel or the St. Pete Yacht club. Every last one of them draws Social Security and half of them bitch about how their Medicare supplemental insurance isn’t as good as it used to be. Everyone pays into Social Security, until you get to around $90K of earnings — anything after that is not taxed, but everyone still contributes.

  24. Hillary is 44 says McCain should go after the smearing of Joe The Plumber from Obama supporters, and he should defend Joe now. That sounds right.

  25. Re: Supreme Court.

    WTF? Doesn’t the motor voter law require that they be checked? I can’t believe this.

  26. Florida Surfer –

    Everyone pays into Social Security, until you get to around $90K of earnings — anything after that is not taxed, but everyone still contributes.

    Um, that’s what I said. And those wealthy retirees must not be that wealthy if they have paid into Medicare and Social Security and are now reaping the benefits.

  27. Just heard on local TV here in DC that the Washington Post has endorsed Obama, saying that his supple (or was that subtle) intelligence makes it “possible” that he “might” make a great president. Also, the Post acknowledged that while they have long liked and respected John McCain, his running mate Sarah Palin just “isn’t ready to be president”.

    I’m sure I didn’t get all the quotes 100%, but that is the gist of it. Obama MIGHT make a great president, but Palin isn’t ready to be PRESIDENT, an office she isn’t even seeking.

    More of the same assumptions and presumptions. This is absolutely sick.

  28. madamab – could you provide backup on your comments about Medicare and Social Security? Wealthy people pay into the SS system, they use it, and they use Medicare.

    SS taxes are collected on the first $102,000(+/-) earned by all people. If you paid in, you are expected to take out. My understanding is that all people over 65 are expected to sign up for Medicare. They can have supplemental insurance, as well, of course. Medicare isn’t free. It is around $200 a month and it is automatically withdrawn from SS checks. People don’t have a choice on that. At least that’s what my elderly parents tell me as their experience.

  29. MadamB: Of course – becuase Clinton helped turn the economy by creating 22 million jobs – more people getting out of the poverty index means more people paying taxes.

    We have to do it the Clinton way for things to turn around.

    (missing Hillary and Bill)

  30. All taxes redistribute wealth. The difference between a progressive and a regressive tax system (there are no socialists to speak of in American politics-certainly NOT Obama) is the one redistributes wealth down and the other redistributes wealth up.

    Obama’s policies on, well everything, are better than McCain’s, but only at the margins, and not sufficiently to suggest he will be anything but a failed GOP-lite President. Which will give us the real thing back in four years.

  31. What bugs me about the Joe the Plumber affair is how corporate media, BO, and Biden are baldface lying about what the man said. He said he aspired to buy a business worth 250,000 to 280,000 dollars. He didn’t say he made a quarter of a million dollars as yearly income. That’s simply not what the man said. What, no one except BO is allowed to aspire to power? It’s okay for BO to get rich, but no one else? BO mocked him for being a mere lowly plumber who dared to make that much money — not only was that a lie, but why make fun of the guy?

    Money is for people like BO, the aristocracy. Not for… peasants.

    Increasingly, I understand why many Democrats and post-progs of this stripe are characterized as elitists. I understand why someone could very, very reasonably come away with that impression. I do believe I have come away with that impression, too.

  32. great post madamab…Mawm was just saying last night that all these progressive bloggers are such hypocrites. remember when they (rightly) got all worked up about Michelle Malkin stalking the kid in the SCHIP ads? Or when she published the names and numbers of war protesters? How are they any different now. they absolutely disgust me. shameless is what they are.

  33. It’s on Drudge.

    I’m sick to my stomach.

    Dear Leader attacks private citizens for asking him questions, wants to take away the privacy of the vote, wants to listen to their conversations, and wants to stuff the ballot box with folks like Herbert Hoover and Donald Duck voting for him.

    Meanwhile, the media continues to destroy Joe for asking a simple question.

    I wish George Orwell was alive and write a sequel called 2008.

  34. GrapeApe – Sigh. I understand what you’re saying.

    Obviously my statements were too general on SS and Medicare. Mea culpa! My point was that I do not believe that SS is a wealth re-distribution system, nor is Medicare. There is a difference between true socialism and these types of social safety net programs. Any attempt at taking property and assets from rich people and giving them to poor people would cause a revolution in America, and rightly so.

    Our taxes fund other things besides SS and Medicare. They fund everything from building roads to keeping the air and food clean. A government simply cannot function without taxes. That is my point.

  35. madamab: Obie used the word “wealth” instead of “money” because he’s fomenting class warfare. As a hippy, I lived in a commune where we shared everything, but it was by choice, and we considered it freeing. Not choice + curbs on freedoms = communism.

  36. Sal – Does Drudge provide any links?

  37. I have to agree with madamb, I don’t see SS as a wealth redistribution system right now. But when I get old and my SS check doesn’t show up then it’s a wealth redistribution system! 😀 I like to think of SS as more of a Ponzi scheme than anything else 😉

  38. The Supreme Court did not rule on the merits of the case. They said the GOP had no standing to bring the lawsuit. So who does and is there still time?

  39. can someone explain, is the SCOTUS ruling on the actual verification process itself or just on the stay to the restraining order that compelled her to complete it? any lawyers out there?

  40. madamb,

    oops. sorry about that. It links to an AP article. I only barely skimmed the top before killing the page. I am so upset by this right now. you’ve got 200k people who we don’t even kow are actually people and the frigging SC doesn’t care about that.

    Hannity needs to amend his attement, 2008 is the year Journalism annnnnnnnnnnnd Democracy died.

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93SBC3O0&show_article=1

  41. Personally. I am all in favor of taxes if I see them going towards the common good of the community: universal healthcare, roads, energy infrastructure, schools, college education, etc. I don’t see that as spreading the wealth, I see that as everyone chipping in so that everyone benefits.

    BUT if I see my taxes going to handouts to orgs that deliver votes, hand outs to market speculators, outright theft — that makes me furious.

    If a candidate wants to raise taxes he/she must make a case for transparency and where the money will go.

  42. LB – That was my impression. “Spread the money around” is a lot more innocuous than “spread the wealth around.” It really seems like Obama is a socialist with that type of language – however, since we can’t read his mind, we don’t know that for certain.

  43. Well lets see, in 2000 the media supported Bush and the Supreme Court made it happen…fast forward to 2008. The media supports Obama and the Supreme Court takes tje first steps in ‘making it happen…hmm.

    I don’t know who is in control here but it isn’t us.

  44. samanthasmom, on October 17th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

    Apparently, since the OH Gop is a private entity, it prevents them from suing.

    The logical answer is that the only one who could sue about this is a public office, probably the one currently occupied by…Brunner.

    Kathleen Harris and her must be related.

  45. votermom – AMEN!!!

    BUT if I see my taxes going to handouts to orgs that deliver votes, hand outs to market speculators, outright theft — that makes me furious.

    If a candidate wants to raise taxes he/she must make a case for transparency and where the money will go.

    Exactly. I am willing to pay more if I’m getting something in return, and I think most Americans are in that place as well. But the bailout package where the Dems wanted to give 20% away to ACORN, makes me very skeptical about what they’re going to do with my money! I certainly don’t want the Republicans giving it to Halliburton, Bechtel or the Carlyle Group, either!

    Sigh.

  46. Oops! Not that the GOP had no standing, but that the District Court did not have jurisdiction.

  47. samanthasmom,

    are you sure? the updated article I read from AP has this sentence:

    “Instead, they said they were granting Brunner’s request because it appears that the law does not allow private entities, like the Ohio GOP, to file suit to enforce the provision of the law at issue.”

  48. Samanthasmom – Where are you reading this information? I can post the link if you don’t know how. The link Sal provided was very general, and you seem to have more specifics than he does.

  49. Whatever the case, it isn’t that the suit doesn’t have merit, but over some stupid procedural thing.

    Think of it as the rapist getting off scott free because the policeman forgot to say one line while reading him his rights.

    2008 – The year journalism and Democracy died.

  50. I’d wished I’d known ahead of time that no one was checking voter registrations. I would have registered Samantha. She’s over 18 in doggie years and was born in the US.

  51. madamb,

    the updated AP article I got from MSNBC is more detailed, but it seems that the site won’t allow me to post it for some odd reason.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27238980/

  52. nvm, there it goes

  53. Sal – That is terrible. Just terrible.

    Maybe the ACLU can take up the case? Would THEY have standing?! Jeez Louise!

  54. Fox is covering the OH Brunner vote thing right now.
    Someone saying it’s a procedural thing — GOP standing

  55. There is a common misperception that should be corrected. When polling, the subgroups are weighted according to a turnout model. You can poll 10,000 Dems and the results will be weighted the same way if you only interview 1,000 Dems. The difference is how turnout is weighted. The increased numbers of Dems polled will affect the MOE of the subgroup, but shouldn’t change the results much, certainly not the small discrepancy of a couple hundred. Look at the turnout models, particularly the Gallup “traditional” versus “expanded” models.

  56. Cate, That’s how I’m feeling. This is a sham of a democracy. For some reason though, I’m still not sensing that Obama will win.

    PUMAs don’t be disheartened. Even if they steal the election, it’s important for us to show up in large numbers so that they know we’re here and can’t claim a mandate. (Well, they can claim it but the numbers won’t support them.)

  57. Thanks, Sal!

    Here is the last paragraph of the article:

    About 200,000 of 666,000 voters who have registered in Ohio since Jan. 1 have records that don’t match. Brunner has said the discrepancies most likely stem from innocent clerical errors rather than fraud but has set up a verification plan.

    I wonder what her verification plan is? I’d like to hear more about what she is going to do to root out the fraud. My impression was that she was going to do nothing at all, but maybe that was inaccurate.

  58. Congratulations to us! We have been royally fu*cked once again. Jennifer Brunner has just been granted yet another 200,000 votes for Obama without verification. Soon we will all be addressing one another as “comrade”.

  59. madamb,

    the ACLU is a private entity, so I don’t think they can do it either. It would seem from the language of the article that the only ones who can do it are a public entity, like maybe the Ohio Secretary of State, which unfortunately is held by…Brunner.

  60. We should have voters get marked with indelible ink when they vote. If it’s good enough for Iraq, it’s good enough for us, imo.

  61. My plumber just left. Ironically it was a she named Tracy. She did a great job. Power to women at least! Jennifer Brunner and Katherine Harris: has anyone checked their DNA?

  62. Shouldn’t she have had a verification plan in place already?

    I wonder if she will give me the vote I gave her in 2006 back?

  63. Info was emailed to me by lawyer buddy

    PER CURIAM.
    On October 9, 2008, the United States District Court for the Southern District of Ohio entered a temporary restraining order (TRO) directing Jennifer Brunner, the Ohio Secretary of State, to update Ohio’s Statewide Voter Registration Database (SWVRD) to comply with Section 303 of the Help America Vote Act of 2002 (HAVA), 116 Stat. 1708, 42 U. S. C. §15483(a)(5)(B)(i).* The United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit denied the Secretary’s motion to vacate the TRO. The Secretary has filed an application to stay the TRO with JUSTICE STEVENS as Circuit Justice for the Sixth Circuit, and he has referred the matter to the Court. The Secretary argues both that the District Court had no jurisdiction to enter the TRO and that its ruling on the merits was erroneous. We express no opinion on the question whether HAVA is being properly implemented. Respondents, however, are not sufficiently likely to prevail on the question whether Congress has authorized the District Court to enforce Section 303 in an action brought by a private litigant to justify the issuance of a TRO. See Gonzaga Univ. v. Doe, 536 U. S. 273, 283 (2002); Alexander v. Sandoval, 532 U. S. 275, 286 (2001). We therefore grant the application for a stay and vacate the TRO.

    Question is whether it it is because the GOP is a private entity or if the case belonged in a different court?

  64. Sal, I’ll need to borrow SoD’s tinfoil hat for this, but I can never post on the MSM sites. It’s almost like they’re keeping tracking of who doesn’t support Obama and disappearing us from the web.

  65. Here is the opinion. it’s short, and basically says, we are voting “present”.

    http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/08pdf/08A332.pdf

  66. This whole “election” just makes me sick. The only ray of hope today is that Fox is reporting the polls are tightening. Let’s pray they are correct and we can be rid of this plague known as Obama. A McCain win is the only antidote for this virus.

  67. Madamab:
    “My point was that I do not believe that SS is a wealth re-distribution system”

    On any reasonable actuarial analysis, SS takes money from younger, generally poorer employees and gives it to older, generally wealthier retirees. Even when adjusted for inflation, at current benefit levels the average retiree will get back vastly more in SS benefits than he/she ever put in. The payroll taxes that fund SS are unavoidable for people working minimum wage, so younger workers are stuck paying into a system that they can only hope will be solvent when they retire. As it happens, if you’re at the bottom of the socioeconomic pile, your life expectancy is lower, so you’re probably not going to get back nearly as much as a wealthier retiree. But you’ll be dead , so maybe it doesn’t matter.

  68. gxm17,

    I stopped trying a long time ago. Cafferty would never let my comments up there despite the fact that I was very very reasonable when discussing the HIllary-Obama primaries (I mean, I am a Republican, so you’d figure I’d have a much more neutral tone. I guess some of my Hillary bias kinda crept in though :P)

  69. gqmartinez – To expand on your comment a bit: From what I understand, Obama was showing a large lead in some polls because they based their turnout models on registered voters, and Obama has been doing very well in registering voters, both living and living-impaired.

    😉

    Gallup has recently started estimating turnout based on the traditional models, giving the GOP GOTV efforts traditional weighting, and those polls show a statistical tie.

  70. here is analysis by a election law expert on this ruling.

    electionlawblog.org/archives/011862.html

  71. Unless you are drinking the Obama Kool Aid they do not want to hear from you. Dissent is prohibited. Questions are considered ra*cist. Opposition thoroughly squashed.

    A view of what may come. The US form of totalitarianism.

  72. gxm17, I haven’t gotten a post on any MSM site since about Feb. Even Fox won’t post my comments! I would agree that there is a database of we anti-Obama people.

  73. but back to madamb’s original post,

    seriously folks, with the way a private citizen has been attacked for simply asking an innocent question, it troubles me a great deal. I’m not saying there will be labor camps to re-educate those of us who don’t agree with dear leader, but it’s pretty obvious that they will go after your livelihood, your personal life, and everything that you hold dear if you are against the One.

    How did we wind up here? How could so many in the party of Truman, JFK, and Clinton allow this to happen right in front of their face? For me it is an easy thing for me to do what I have to do this November. I honestly feel very bad for the 18 million who saw the truth and now have to make a very very difficult decision in November.

  74. Blogging is a form of media and Conflucians represent the mainstream of America.

    We are the real mainstrean media.

  75. Ok, is the ruling to NEVER verify the registrations, or to prevent the state from prohibiting early (provisional) voting? The former is bad, but the latter is pretty innocuous and the right thing to do. The former would mean that even legitimately registered voters would be prevented. The latter means that registrations will eventually be verified. Its important to get all the info before jumping to conclusions.

  76. If Joe the Plumber has been villified for creating a little stir within the media, woe be it to us who have dared criticize this empty suit. I have a bad feeling about this. We will all be on some “Enemies List” if this keeps up.

    The rioting in the streets they keep predicting may very easily be those of us who are getting totally fed up with these tactics.

  77. Sal:

    We didn’t “allow” this to happen.

    It happened despite our screams and howls of protest.

  78. If they can dog up everything about Joe the Plumber in less than a week, why can’t they dig up Obama’s past in 18 months?

  79. dig up

  80. myiq
    do you think they’ll let us blog from the camps?

  81. gq,

    the ruling is essentially a non-ruling and based on procedurals, not merit. they’re basically sayign that the GOP can’t bring this lawsuit, but someone else can. Given what we know about ACORN and other fraud, and the fact that the Disctric Court gave the order, I’m pretty sure that the merits are strong.

  82. myiq2xu, on October 17th, 2008 at 12:48 pm

    oh I know, myiq12xu, my rant is reserved for the half (and less than 18 million) of the party who completely bathed themselves in koolaid and then made Jello out of it for their kids.

  83. Obama is on now. I am so sick of his speeches. America You Suck and I will take you in a New Direction. I will take you in the direction of change. Now he will tell the pie story.

  84. Florida Surfer –

    On any reasonable actuarial analysis, SS takes money from younger, generally poorer employees and gives it to older, generally wealthier retirees. Even when adjusted for inflation, at current benefit levels the average retiree will get back vastly more in SS benefits than he/she ever put in.

    Can you provide a link for that information? Since the value of the dollar has been going down so much lately, I find it a bit difficult to believe that my husband’s Soc Sec benefits will amount to more than what he put in. Especially since those benefits are taxed as well!

    Also, I do not agree with your definition of wealth redistribution. We can agree to disagree about that, but you won’t change my mind.

  85. Is there a guarantee that Capt. Spaulding has not already been unleashed and we are watching his handiwork take root? I can think of no better reason than what is happening today to our country. Nothing is sacred.

  86. No blogging from the camps. We will all be too busy building statues and creating all those roads that lead to Obama.

  87. I went and read supremes slip opinion. I can’t find any dissent, nor is the opinion signed as to who wrote it.
    Was this unanimous by the court?

  88. Someone this AM on the radio said that Joe wasn’t even a licensed plumber. Now, I don’t know if that is true or not. But I do know that in CA, you do not have to be a licensed plumber to work for a plumbing contractor. The owner of the business is licensed and his license covers his workers.

  89. Pat J, I firmly believe McCain will win. That is NOT a ‘win’ for me as I am a Democrat (for now anyway) but as I keep saying, the Silent Majority will come thru and defeat Obama.

  90. PJ – LOL!

    You gotta laugh or you’ll cry. Maybe “The Diary of Anne Frank” is more relevant today than we thought!

  91. I heard that you do not have to be licensed to work in homes, only in commercial buildings.

  92. madamab: I have an attic.

  93. Ana said: And like I said before, I don’t buy any of those polls, if Obama was really ahead, ACORN, wouldn’t be cheating for him.

    You may be right but the cheating is massive. The Supreme Court has ruled against the GOP using a technical finding that the GOP doesn’t have standing to challenge the Ohio Sec of Elections. Shameful. 200,000 out of 666,000 new registrations are so far known to have problems. Obama supporters who work with the disabled are using their positions to cheat. See. http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/17/obama-supporters-steal-vote-from-disabled-man/

    Obama is set on massive cheating to get into the white house. With these kind of new registrations he could swing the election. I told you guys months ago that the voter fraud would be massive.

  94. Madamb,

    The “traditional” model is what gallup typically uses. The “expanded” model is something that has shown no precedent for reliability. Its shocking that they are using that one to prop up Obama, at least as far as their polls getting published in the media.

  95. For the folks wondering if Joe can be a plumber without a license. The answer is yes.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-joe17-2008oct17,0,3245850.story?page=2&track=rss

    “Cheryl Schimming, a permit specialist for the Lucas County Building Regulations Department, which licenses plumbers, confirmed that Wurzelbacher does not have a license but that Newell does hold an Ohio license. But Wurzelbacher told reporters, and Schimming agreed, that because he works for a licensed plumber, he is not required to have one.”

  96. McCain must win if we are to preserve our liberties. He must win.

  97. I heard that it was Justice Stevens who answered the challenge.

  98. I don’t care if Joe The Plumber has two heads and a tail.

    The point is not who HE is. The point is who OBAMA is. Is OBAMA a Socialist? Is he a vote-stealer? Did ACORN help him steal the nomination from Hillary through caucus fraud? What WOULD he do as President? And why can’t we get straight answers to ANY of these questions?

  99. time to start burying cash and ammo

  100. do i sound a little freaked out?

  101. I got some utterly whacky conspiracy theory email sent to me today about Joe the Plumber being the son in law of one of the Keating 5 and sent by the McCain camp to make Obama look bad …

  102. I do not own a gun nor do I have much cash. But I will need someone to help me bury the hate and disgust I find myself carrying.

  103. ANA: they weight those polls

  104. Pat, in the opinion it says Stevens turned the matter over to the full court. I’ve never seen an unsigned opinion before.

  105. Maybe Joe the Plumber is The One We All Have Been Waiting For?

  106. catarina – yes, but you have good reason.

    My hubby is feeling the same way, but not because of Obama – because of the economy and the upcoming oil shortage.

    Anyone want to start a commune in New York? We’ll grow our own food and everything!

    😉

  107. The key to the “unfairness” of Obama’s tax plan is the word REFUNDABLE.

    Regular tax credits to reduce tax load for middle class Americans is a great ting.

    REFUNDABLE tax credits that amount to IRS checks being cut to people whose income is so low they don’t even pay taxes that year, is not.

    It’s “spreading the wealth, through the back door .

    One of Obama’s suggestions is a $4000 refundable tax credit for college expenses. Meaning , of course, that a family with a child in college, but not paying any taxes due to low income, could claim that refundable tax credit and have the IRS cut them a check for same.

    For the Joe the Plumbers, who make too much, they may get the tax credit for their child in college, but there will BE no check written to him, and he will still write a check to the IRS, probably due to the Alternative Minimum Tax.

    Essentially, Joe the Plumber pays for the low-income non-taxpayer’s kid to attend college.

    Key word: REFUNDABLE, as in “spreading the wealth.”

  108. Kat – See? They’re out of fucking control. The Left’s Freepi have struck!

  109. madamab: Can you get us tickets to some good Broadway shows? I might consider in that case. But no heavy lifting for me in the commune. I can answer the phones and make the beds but no more. Just thought I would get that out there first before you assign chores.

  110. THIS IS DYNAMITE….

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqis9mRcWl4

    Poor Joe, Obama does not like you very much after all….

  111. Okay can someone help me out with this. I am listen to the holy one. He starts off the speech saying that McCain has focused on negative campaigning against him. Then goes on to bash a poor restaurant owner, compare McCain to Bush, then tell people how McCains health care plan sucks, Talks about the Change that we need. We are 10 minutes into the speech yet he has said NOTHING about what he will do. I can take 3 weeks of attacks from John McCain, blah blah. We need policies that grow our economy. Obama what are you saying? Nothing really. It is populist rhetoric.

  112. Obama, fact deprived, condescending son of a bitch!

  113. madamab: There’s a lot of stuff published on the expected value of social security payouts. Michael Boskin of Stanford has done a good deal of work on it, IIRC. It’s not an area I work in professionally, but I certainly can’t recall anyone concluding that the expected value is anything but positive, even when inflation is factored in. The benefits currently being paid are fairly generous, and those retiring now have not been taxed historically at a terribly high rate, so what you get is an income redistribution across generations.

  114. Mary
    the ass-kicker is that there is no info available about when the credits will “phase out”, and “phase out” they most certainly will.

    There is no way that all those refundable credits will be available to every family making less than 250k.
    It will be like the child care credit, or the EIC, or the infamous MA home heating credit, where everyone who makes over a certain amount will be shut out.
    No Obamabot has been able to tell me how income limits will
    apply to any of his rf’s.

  115. Pat that was funny. After every campaign speech I am sure that Obama’s handlers have to come up with a napkin and wipe the sh$t from his mouth. He is full of it.

  116. BO keeps blathering on teevee. I love my MUTE button!

  117. Mary – I don’t like the government handing me refunds or tax credits. I laughed at Bush when he did it twice. WTF!!!

    Invest the money in creating jobs instead.

  118. The Supreme Court based their ruling on the fact that ” it appears that the law does not allow private entities, like the Ohio GOP, to file suit to enforce the provision of the law at issue.”
    They didn’t say she shouldn’t do it, they just said that the GOP couldn’t ask her to – they have no standing. Sucks, I know, but that is what strict constructionists do. I wonder who would have standing – and if someone could get them to sue?

  119. As I understand it, much of the GOP complaints about Obama’s tax proposals is that they give refundable credits to a lot of people who currently don’t pay income taxes. (Right now, the only such credit is the Earned Income Tax Credit, but you have to work to get that.) So quite a few people will end up getting money from the government at tax time, rather than simply paying less in taxes. So they see this as a literal redistribution of wealth–take money from some people and give it to other people.

    Now it’s true that most of our programs now also take money from some people and spend it on others. However, they don’t as a rule just give it to others. The two big examples brought up in this thread–SS and Medicare–each have their own separate tax (payroll taxes and FICA taxes) and are separated from the rest of the government.

    So a good question is under what circumstances a person who doesn’t pay income taxes actually get plain old cash from the government? Most people support the EITC; will they support Obama’s ideas of giving them cash for other things?

  120. The correntian Obots that disagreed with GQM last light are still clinging to their delusions:

    http://www.correntewire.com/unfounded_allegations#comment-120415

  121. PJ – LOL!

    Myiq – Holy crap!

    Florida Surfer – Mmmmkay. I would have liked some verification for those figures. And unless you are seriously claiming that all retirees are wealthier than all young workers, I don’t see how it’s redistributing anyone’s wealth.

    We will have to agree to disagree here. Okay?

  122. there is an amazing lack of detail about the” tax plan” and exactly who will benefit from it.
    I can’t figure out if people who work will pay less tax or if people who don’t work will be getting a check.

  123. “Jennifer Brunner has just been granted yet another 200,000 votes for Obama without verification.”

    That is not what she said. Enough of the hysteria. Bush won Florida because valid voters were scrubbed from the rolls. Brunner said she set up verification, so if you’re so curious what that plan entails, call up her office.

    But don’t state the opposite of what is written and foment hysteria over the normal problems with lists. Katherine Harris utilized inaccurate info to sweep “felons” from the rolls in 2000. Obama utilized it to knock his opponents off the ballot.

    All lists need to be verified. Too bad the faux hysteria over that is overshadowing valid discussion over what needs to be done to accurately register more voters.

  124. “Essentially, Joe the Plumber pays for the low-income non-taxpayer’s kid to attend college.”

    “Barack will require you to work.”
    –Michelle Obama

  125. I don’t agree with Florida Surfer either:
    “On any reasonable actuarial analysis, SS takes money from younger, generally poorer employees and gives it to older, generally wealthier retirees. Even when adjusted for inflation, at current benefit levels the average retiree will get back vastly more in SS benefits than he/she ever put in”

    This statement assumes that the SS money we paid is adjusted only for inflation. Not ture, SS is supposed to be a savings program, and the money I contributed 40 years ago has grown with interest compounding. Of course that would be true if the Gov’t hadn’t robbed the accounts, but they must pay me as if they hadn’t robbed the accounts. Part of the reason why many believe SS should be privatized is based on the belief that if the same amount of $$ given to SS admin had been invested the money would have earned more than what we now get in SS monthly payment. However with the current system there was no risk, presumably, and with a private account your at the mercy of the market.

  126. I guess Obama isn’t concerned about any perception of cheating by his campaign.

  127. Madamab: I have master gardening certification, so if we start the commune I can help immensely with the garden.

    Afrocity: For me it is not so much what he says, but how he says it. It seems almost like he is condescending to all of us.

  128. johninca
    my kids are grown and gone.
    if i now have to pay for other people’s kids to go to college when do I save for my retirement?

  129. Actually Social Security is wealth redistributive. Benefits are calculated by law to weigh to the advantage of people who earn on the lower wage scales. Earnings are indexed by year, low years dropped, and totaled. Then calculated based on year of birth, type of benefits (retirement, survivors, and disability) and year of eligibility. It has been a number of years since I worked for SSA but the calculations are adjusted by Congress periodically to change the formula somewhat. It the 70’s and 80’s the calculation was weighted to raise the benefits of people who made minimum or near minimum wage who worked for 40 years. The calculations gradually lessened up the earned income scale to the max earners who did not need it. I am not sure of the current calculations but millions of people are still drawing benefits who received the beneficial calculations which particularly helped women and minorities who have traditionally been paid much less.

  130. Zee, although I think your tone could be a bit more respectful, I agree with everything you’re saying. Brunner is not excused from verifying the votes. We need to find out more about how she is verifying them, especially since she has confirmed that 200,000 of them are problematic.

  131. Obama says he is going to eliminate the Bush tax cuts, and he says he will not raise taxes on 95% of Americans. Now if he eliminates the Bush tax cuts that will raise taxes on every American who pays taxes. Someone want to tell me why Obama’s tax plan is not a lie.

  132. Supremes opinion was written by Justice Stevens and since there was no dissenting opinion, it assumes the whole court agreed.

  133. Madamab and Zee,
    Once the absentee ballots are removed from their envelope, I understood that there was not way to verify anything. Those ballots were supposed to be separated from their envelopes today. I think that is why people believe Brunner is full of shit#

  134. NH
    My best friend and her husband will probably never speak to me again for raising that very point.
    I have been doing their taxes for 20 years.
    When they railed against the “Rich Old White Guys” that benefitted from the Bush cuts I had to explain to them that
    THEY were the “Rich Old White Guys”.
    I can’t take it any more. Some people are just too f-ing stupid to live.

  135. French Nail, thanks for the link to Obama mocking Joe the plumber.

    What a jerk Barrack is. Remember when he mocked Annie Oakley?

    This is how he “unites” people?

  136. thanks Celeste.. do you have a link showing that Stevens wrote the opinion?

  137. I spent my life getting away from the stigma of growing up on welfare. Went to school have two masters degrees. Now Obama brings Welfare state back. Thanks Obama. You really believe in black people.

  138. Riverdaughter: THANK YOU for posting this video and the one from McCain’s speech at the Al Smith dinner. People need to see and hear what each candidate is ACTUALLY saying – not how the media spins them.

  139. NH – Good point. Obama would say that Bush’s tax cuts were only for the top 1%, so that’s how he would square those two statements, I believe.

    But he’s trying to have it both ways, too. Obama also says he won’t eliminate the Bush tax cuts if the economy is still in trouble when he takes office.

    So nothing will change until 2010, when the tax cuts expire automatically. Surprise!

  140. I have a similar certification in baiting

  141. For information on the Ohio ruling, I urge people to see Election Protection – an effort I also encourage people to get involved with if you are worried about fraud this year. More information is available via the links at http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/2008/10/concerned-about-the-integrity-of-the-franchise-this-november-4-work-for-election-protection.html

  142. madamab, on October 17th, 2008 at 1:16 pm Said:

    This is spot on, madamab: the question is WHAT is Brunner going to do to verify.

  143. I agree that Obama is obviously cheating, and that he might win like this. But this could be taken to court, like the 2000 election was.

    This is going to hurt the election more.

  144. Thanks, Heidi Li! You rock.

    🙂

  145. French Nail
    I guess Obama threw plumbers under th ebus.

  146. I can’t wait for the analysis of the ruling and discussion of who has standing to challenge Brunner’s actions. No private party has standing?

  147. NH,

    We have not even begun to revamp our electoral system. It’s been my understanding that they don’t even count the absentee ballots except in close cases. That may vary by state.

    What we don’t need is hysteria, in order to look at what we need to do. There is no way 200,000 actual human beings in one area are purposely risking imprisonment by defrauding the vote.

    If there is a small group padding the lists in order to defraud in a different way, such as vote flipping electronically, they would know better than to put in cartoon characters and famous people’s names.

    So, unless the kind of concerted effort that actually PAYS OFF is discovered, the republicans have successfully hijacked the attention of a lot of disenfranchised progressives.

  148. I spent my life getting away from the stigma of growing up on welfare. Went to school have two masters degrees.

    Afrocity, I find that your remarks indicate an astonishing combination of youth, education, righteous anger, political incorrectness, and, if your avatar is any indication, haunting beauty.

  149. There’s an Onion story to predict everything in US politics:

    http://www.theonion.com/content/news/obama_modifies_yes_we_can_message

  150. There is much room left under that bus anyone. Obama has so many people under there.

    (I am the old AAAGal by the way. Got my wordpress acct)

  151. The problem with Brunner (aka Harris) is that this is round two for her shutting the door on Republicans concerns. First she tried to disallow McCain absentee ballots that lacked a check mark in a box not even required by Ohio law. She got slammed down on that one. And now this supreme court business is her second round. The fact that it is dismissed on a technicality makes the whole thing stay very unresolved. The court’s opinion does not absolve Brunner from the very real perception that she is playing partisan.

  152. BO replaced the bus with a double-wide trailer.

  153. TheRealKim, on October 17th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

    I agree wholeheartedly with your point about condescension. The quality of a person’s approach to others comes through in how they they speak, as much as what they say. Bill Clinton was more highly educated than Barack Obama but he never sounded like he thought he was a superior being. He would not have joked that while he was not The Messiah he was in fact Superman.

    And because he really did feel other people’s pain, when he raised taxes to make all of us better offer by balancing the budget, even people whose taxes got raised could accept it because it was easy to believe that Bill Clinton understood sacrifice and that he was asking some to sacrifice more than they had been for the good of overall economy.

    With Senator Obama one gets the sense that he has no appreciation of anybody’s feelings but his own. This is not a good quality in a public servant.

  154. Zee:

    Yep, but Annie Okley was a woman…. JOE is a PLUMBER… And any home owner knows… You do not mess with your plumber :).

    The One picked the wrong devil to mess with this time.

  155. Johnica, I apologize if you were offended. I am angry. I want Blacks to progress but I do not like Obama’s rhetoric .

  156. afrocity –

    I am corresponding with an AA friend of mine, who cannot stand Obama. He is a liberal like me. He thinks Obama is a total warmonger and a fascist-in-training. He is more of a Kucinich guy than a Clinton guy, but he’s saying that now he wishes Hillary were the nominee. I don’t even think he’s going to vote this year, and that’s a very sad statement for an activist like him.

    I am so grateful to know that not everyone in the AA community is falling for Obama’s BS.

  157. You know, the more the obots sh!t on John McCain, Sarah Palin and their supporters, the more I like the Republican ticket.

    I had a co-worker telling me that McCain shouldn’t be President because he’s “dumb.” The so-called evidence of his lack of intellect is that he graduated at the bottom of his class. No mention that Annapolis takes conduct into account for ranking and that McCain was a rule breaker which completely fits with his maverick label and a low ranking.

    And does anyone really know where Obama ranked? I could find nothing more specific than “top of his class” and, besides, I thought Obama hasn’t released his school records.

    And personally, as someone who attended a community college, I find the slams about Palin’s college education to be very insulting. Aren’t average citizens supposed to be the folks the Dems stand up for? What the hell has happened here? I’m a lifelong liberal so if I’m feeling this disenfranchised from the Democratic Party, I just can’t believe that moderates and conservatives are feeling any Dem love.

  158. votermom – uncanny!

  159. You know Zee, Obama’s team via Acorn, submitted 73 fraudulent registrations from just 1 guy on 1 sunny afternoon. They used a stupid method and got caught. I would be very possible for the fraud you are suggesting to occur. Obviously it’s in Obama best interests for people like you to run around and tell us not to be concerned, worried or even interested in voter fraud. He needs to do that so he can steal the election.

  160. The Obamabutts give me so much fuel to vote for McCain. I am fine with it.

  161. Oh I forgot to tell you guys that my voters registration card has not shown up.

  162. madamab: “unless you are seriously claiming that all retirees are wealthier than all young workers, I don’t see how it’s redistributing anyone’s wealth.”

    It isn’t necessary for every retiree to be wealthier than every young worker in order for the system to be redistributive. What’s required is that, in the aggregate and on average, the young worker who pays SS payroll taxes has less wealth than the retiree who receives the benefits. And this is generally true. The household wealth of workers in the 18-25 bracket is awfully small in comparison with the household wealth of retirees in the 65+ range. That’s what make SS a redistribution, although if you live long enough you may end up on the positive end of the redistribution.

  163. The Black Agenda Report is far from enamoured with Mr. Obama, too.

    ana, regarding the polling, the polling organizations have said they oversample Democratic voters because there are far higher numbers of registered Dems in this election. This may also have been true in the past, I’m not certain, but it is definitely true in this election–Democratic registration has gone way up since the start of the primaries. So this isn’t bias necessarily, it’s just an attempt to guage actual likelihood of voting.

    I still think it’s much tighter than they are letting on. I suspect a resurgence of Nixon’s “silent majority”–who crushed the favored-to-win McGovernites–is at hand. I hope, anyway!

  164. Madamab, you coined it:

    Good grief. The Republicans think I’m a socialist, and the Obamabots think I’m a Republican!

    LOL.

  165. Afrocity, I wasn’t offended at all. “Righteous anger” is good.

  166. I believe that this whole ugly Joe the Plumber chapter will end up benefiting McCain. I’ve seen the video of Joe. He seems vexed, concerned, sincere, random, definitely not among the privileged. Outside the circle of hard core O supporters (which, sadly, includes 99% of the MSM), voters will most likely see themselves in Joe. Therefore, the ferocity with which this heretofore invisible American has been attacked is likely to bring on a “That could’ve been me” reaction.

  167. “(there are no socialists to speak of in American politics-certainly NOT Obama)”

    tdraicer, there is one! Bernie Sanders of Vermont. I totally agree with the rest of your post, btw. Obama is far from socialist and is a Repub Lite. Remember what Howard Dean said about those.

  168. Well, I think I lean socialist (Vive le France! et Sweden!) and I think I resent Obama being calle a socialist. Gives socialism a bad name. Obama is a corporatist kleptocrat.

  169. Help! I’m in moderation and the kitchen sink garbage disposal is clogged with obamabutts! Someone call Joe!

  170. Florida Surfer –

    Unless you can prove that retirees are becoming wealthier than younger workers as a result of SS, your point, which you are belaboring despite several requests to stop, makes no sense. SS payments simply do not do what you are claiming.

    I don’t understand why you keep belaboring something that is an obvious point of disagreement. It’s OT and counterproductive. You need to move on, please.

    Thank you.

  171. NEW POST BY LADYBOOMER NYC!

  172. From the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center:

    “Obama’s refunds (refundable tax credits) get smaller as tax burderns get larger, which means that while it is true that 95 percent of workers will receive some form of tax refund from Obama, they will not all receive a FULL refund, because Obama relies on phase-in and phase-our proposals to target his refunds toward the lowest-earning tax brackets.

    It is these phase-out requirements that result in a general DECREASE of the refunds for people earning over $75,000 per year, according to the Center. This bracket includes nearly 40% of all Americans and nearly 20 % of total income taxes. (Think couples, filing jointly, making more than $75,000 per year).

    When compared with current law, people earning $20,000-$50,000 a year will see their effective taxes—the amount of money the taxpayer actually ends up paying the government—- INCREASE , on average, under Obama’s plan.

    Most households making $30,000-$75,000 (couples) will NOT see a reduction in their taxes under Obama’s plan relative to current law, according to the Center.

    In fact, the only strata that will see a majority of its effective tax burden reduced under Obama are those making less than $30,000 per year and those making $75,000-$200,000 per year.”

    Those under $30,000 will get REFUND checks for all those Obama “tax credits” even though they didn’t pay any taxes at all.

    THIS is how Obama “spreads the wealth.”

    It’s not really a “tax cut.”

    It’s a SPENDING INCREASE, in terms of the deficit and debt.

    Originally, he said he would PAYGO these huge expenditures by imposing a windfall profits tax on Big Oil. But given that there are no longer huge profits, Obama has no way to pay for these refunds.

    It means, of course, that he send the country into even BIGGER deficit budgets, borrowing even more from China .

    One has to wonder if the Blue Dog Democrats will ever allow this man to do that, after the Dem Party promised America in 2006 to return to PAYGO.

    He can’t keep these promises. No way, no how.

  173. Madamab & Afrocity: Barack Obama is completely and totally out of touch with most voters. I can understand wanting to excape the stigma of being on welfare; however, I have found that my closest friends still tend to be those like me. I was raised in a rural area and worked my tail off to get though school. I can stand toe to toe with my former country club members, I just don’t want to, they have no idea what makes me tick.

    What bothers me about the AA’s voters going wholeheartedly for Obama is the assumption that he understands them. Would anyone ever assume that I am more in tune with someone simply because we both have green eyes? Of course not, that would be a ridiculous assumption.

    I have had co-workers say he is going to make it right for them because he is a black man and so are they. Than makes no sense. Barack Obama does not know squat about being poor in America, or for that matter being black in America.

    He was raised as a white, upper class, affluent American in Hawaii, for christ’s sake. So what makes him all-knowing in these areas? At least, Bill Clinton knew what it was like to struggle, having been raised by a single mom.

  174. MyIQ,
    I had to respond to the latest charges at Corrente, easily refutable BTW. Its amazing how suddenly that switch turns on people. From well reasoned to just plain absurd in the blink of an eye. Its kind of interesting that they waited until the thread was way down below so that no one would probably answer and she would look like she got in the last, irrefutable word.

  175. My husband and I together make $152,000 a year. We have 3 adult children and 2 who are getting ready to enter college. I can tell you that we NEVER receive any credits, they are always phased out by the time you get to our level. Our children have never been eligible for any college help. I am not asking that you send my child to college. All I am asking is that you don’t take money from me to send someone elses child which then makes it so I don’t have enough money to send mine!!!!

  176. mary, that is super, thanks for posting that

  177. Mary – I KNEW IT! Thank you so much for your informative posts.

    The middle class, once more, will get completely screwed under Barack Obama.

  178. What we don’t need is hysteria, in order to look at what we need to do. There is no way 200,000 actual human beings in one area are purposely risking imprisonment by defrauding the vote.

    ****
    Zee,

    I don’t know about all 200,000 but about a dozen are being criminally investigated because they went to OH from out of state, claimed a fake address, registered to vote and voted in the same day as was permitted for about a week in OH and then went about their business. One, apprarently, who is from NY, left for school in England. Then one of the idjits blogged about it.

  179. The link below looks into the ideology funded by The Arnnenburg Foundation. It made me think of Bush, the First Lady said that reading levels among minorities are higher than they have ever been. Obama / Ayers funding showed no improvement to childrens grades.
    Education is not a fleeting thing, it is something carried though for a persons whole life and has a value above and beyond any moneyed amount.
    I so don’t want to go to a place where I ‘like’ Bush or ‘dislike’ the Democrats, but deep down I just know that Bush’s efforts to improve the lives of minorities in our country will be so much more effective than the efforts of Obama/Ayers.
    I find the rhetoric, which often may sound so good to some, seems counter productive to the actual inclusiveness in American Society that we all want.

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTQ0YjhlOGVhYjQ0OWRhZjI2MmM4NTQ4NGM5Mjg0MzU

  180. Correction, it wasn’t a fake address. They just don’t all live at the address.

  181. Attack ad on Joe already. Guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Attacking_Joe.html

  182. New Post Up!!!

  183. http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/court-blocks-ohio-voter-match-order/

    Since the matter was referred to Justice Stevens who then referred it to the court it is assumed that he “wrote the opinion”. Since it is unsigned, that means the whole court appoved.

    Of course, their law clerks are the ones who actually write the opinions – which are then reviewed by the Justices.

  184. […] Adding the full video of the Q and A with Obama so as to disabuse the many embellishments of what was said. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Media: Obama won, you racists better don’t mess this for usWill Joe the Plumber Become a Hero?Saturday: Ed, you’re making this too easypolitical report v.1 i.2 […]

  185. “Brunner is not excused from verifying the votes.”

    Well, my understanding was that she said she couldn’t do it before those 2000,000 people cast their votes – so they might be struck off the rolls later, but not in time for this election. So fraudulent votes will get through.

  186. 200,000

  187. Sal, omg.
    Can Joe sue whoever made that ad? Isn’t that defamation?

  188. Marlowe, And the troubling aspect is that we don’t know how many more of these kids are doing this. In Virginia, kids are posting comments saying that they have a “right’ to vote twice. How can they believe that! They believe it because the Obama campaign has led them to believe that lying and stealing to win an election is not only okay, it’s the right thing to do. Maybe that’s the “change” Obama speaks of? Lying is Truth. Theft is Bounty.

    My husband once said that Obama is “change you can laugh about.” More and more it’s looking like “change you can cower at.”

  189. zee says “What we don’t need is hysteria, in order to look at what we need to do. There is no way 200,000 actual human beings in one area are purposely risking imprisonment by defrauding the vote.”

    As I said on an earlier blog, in states like Ohio, where you don’t need to show ID to vote there is virtually no chance that you will be imprisoned for voting fraudulently. As for the “Mickey Mouse” registrations, those are very rare. It is usually normal names they use. And these 200,000 registrations have problems which really should be addressed before these people are registered and allowed to vote.

  190. votermom,

    i was thinking the same thing. Poor fellah 😦

  191. BTW,

    am I the only one having trouble posting to gary’s post?

  192. Bill Clinton raised taxes? I don’t’ think so. He balanced the budget with the war dividend. That is, with money for military operations like Desert Storm in Iraq we no longer needed.

  193. Absolutely Obama will lower taxes. See his Obots have already harassed Joe the Plumber right out of a job. Bingo, instant tax relief.

  194. Joe the plumber is a bolt of lightning from heaven. Out of Barack’s mouth comes the truth about his thinking/philosophy. It is pure socialistic/communistic ideology. With the influence of Frank Marshall in his life, I doubt he realizes how influenced he is by Marsha;;’s ideology. May God save America!

  195. Nijma – Um, hell YES Bill Clinton raised taxes!!

    LOL

  196. Madamab is correct about Clinton. He campaigned on giving the middle a tax cut, but once in office, with deficit numbers in hand, he reneged to balance the budget.

    But he DID raise taxes.

    Obama’s promises are empty. He won’t be able to afford any of it. He has already said that healthcare and other big ticket items will have to be postponed.

    He’s playing the Huey Long “chicken in every pot” game, with many of his supporters having not one clue that he’ll never deliver.

  197. Thanks for the video. I hadn’t seen the entire interaction before viewing it. I’m surprised by my reaction to Obama’s reply to Joe’s question: I liked how he answered him. It seemed uncharacteristically honest. But, this somewhat rare appreciation of anything Obama has to say is wiped away by what has happened to Joe W. since this exchange and the mention of it in the debate. Why should this guy be subjected to intense vetting and opposition research?

    I’m with the others who’ve said they think this may backfire on Team Obama.

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