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To Masslib: We do not bow to peer pressure

Somehow, Masslib, one of our own, has decided that we are supporters of John McCain.  She also seems to think that she needs to convert us for our own good.  I would like to disabuse Masslib of these two notions.

1.) My candidate is no longer in this race.  Therefore, I am confronted by two equally unacceptable alternatives.  But there is no rule that says I MUST vote for a name on the top of the ticket.  I can skip that section if I choose.  OR, I can do a protest vote.  I could choose John McCain because I do not wish to reward bad behavior.  This is my right.  I am quite at ease with ambiguity.  What will be will be but I will not contribute to my own demise by throwing my lot in with a corrupt politician even if he is a member of my own party.

2.) I grew up with a religiously fanatical mother.  I have seen every form of emotional manipulation there is to get me to crack and become her kind of Christian.  It is impossible for me to substitute my own judgment with yours, masslib.  I suspect there are a lot of other people on this board who are immune to conversion as well.  When our hearts and minds tell us that Obama is bad news, we have to pay attention to them. My heart and mind tell me it would be as wrong to vote for Obama as it is to vote for George W. Bush.  I can’t do it to make you happy.  I won’t do it just because a Republican will be in office for 4 more years.

There is a certain kind of peer pressure that is annoying to the point of being harrassment.  That is where we are now.  We have heard every argument for voting for Obama and none of them have proven to be very convincing except that he is not a Republican.  And lo and behold, the *Republican* in this case seems to be more amenable to Democratic ideas than the actual Democrat.  With Obama, I get a corrupt politician who will scream “RACISM” everytime the media or others criticize something they don’t like.  We will be held hostage to accusations of racism used as weapons against us.  Obama doesn’t represent the average Democrat.  He represents whoever is bankrolling him, emphasis on bank.  And if he gets elected, Hillary may never have a crack at the office she deserved.

John McCain is not a saint and he is a Republican but he strikes me as a guy who tries to do the right thing, even if it makes him unpopular.  He stuck with his committment to campaign finance reform, he took public campaign funds and he seems to be receptive to ideas that are outside his comfort level.  Do I want to vote for him?  Heck no.  I wanted Hillary and I am profoundly disappointed that she isn’t running.  But this is where we are.  And I am not voting for Obama to please other people.  I have to please myself.  I have to live with myself.

Many of us PUMAs are perfectly comfortable in our own skin with our own decisions.  We don’t want others pestering us about Obama anymore.  We aren’t interested in poll results.  Obama supporters who come here to try to depress turnout or convert us are wasting their time.  We simply do not care what you think of us.  We have been called stupid, old, uneducated, ridiculous females, a shrieking horde of paranoid holdouts, racists, traitors and Republicans.  Oddly enough, this has not made us want to vote for Obama.

The world will go on, no matter what we’re called.  And if Obama loses on Nov. 4, I will be the first to say, “Good!”  You can blame me, scream at me, jump up and down throw a fit, ostracize me, I really don’t give a flying fig.  I will live through it and so will the others on the many dozens of blogs like this one.

It is regrettable that we have grown apart but I’m sure we will both survive.  And the next time the party tries to pull this $#%^, I hope they will think twice as to whether it was worth it.

Now, masslib and people who gave in to peer pressure can say that Obama is going to win but I have enough emails from the party that suggest that plans to launch a full out attack to pressure us into voting for Obama.  If he were doing that well, the upcoming psychological warfare would be unneccesary.  So, please stop the annoying pro-Obama blather.  We aren’t buying it and we don’t care.

We’re not trying to be mean.  We are just being firm.

347 Responses

  1. One alternative might be to vote for a progressive. http://www.votenader.org

  2. Amen sister Riverdaughter, amen on all fronts.

    There is no way in hell I vote for Obama — PERIOD. The more I am made fun of the louder I say NO.

  3. I am a recovering catholic, I was spoon fed RC from birth , just try and guilt me !!

    Homocides in Chicago since 1990
    1990: 851
    1991: 927
    1992: 943
    1993: 931
    1994: 929
    1995: 827
    1996: 789
    1997: 759
    1998: 704
    1999: 641
    2000: 628
    2001: 666
    2002: 647
    2003: 598
    2004: 448
    2005: 449
    2006: 467
    2007: 442

    total 12,646

    just sayin ….

  4. Thank you, RD.

    Enough with the smears and the screams. We own our votes. If people can’t respect that, then why should we respect them enough to give them the time of day?

  5. I am sick of folks bashing you and the Confluence after everything you’ve done for Hillary Clinton supporters since you started this blog.

  6. They don’t seem to know any way besides pressure and abuse to deal with women, do they? Says a lot, doesn’t it?

  7. I am disappointed to see so many that we once counted as friends have now decided that we are the enemy for not supporting Obama.

    I even saw that campskunk said that if Bill Ayers is a terrorist then so is John Lewis. It’s just insane.

    I don’t know what possessed these folks to take their current stance and frankly I don’t care. But I am not one to be converted to anything. I welcome opposing viewpoints as long as there is respect and it is a civil discourse. But these all out attacks coming from people that really do know better is disheartening. It’s like they have either forgotten what Obama has done (and is doing) or they have decided he was (is) justified in doing so or don’t care any longer. Sad.

    Perhaps they should join the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  8. Everybody has to live with their own conscience. They are responsible for their own vote. I’ts pretty simple. I do, however, wonder about this “deer in the headlights” look some of Obama’s surrogates have on TV though. It seems to back up your theory about the party throwing a tantrum to get women to vote for him. Frankly, with only a 6 point lead and the party saying that he has to have more than that in the polls to win, I’m beginning to wonder where all this is going.

  9. v4hill: That won’t stop Obama. Although I have gained a new found respect for Nader. He was absolutely right in saying the Democratic party was (is) corrupt.

  10. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Masslib, I love you but we disagree on this matter because I made up my mind on June 1st 2008:

    P arty
    U nity
    M y
    A ss

    Screw the 2008 DNC and GTH selected but not elected Democratic Nominee!

    And ain’t nothing nobody can do about that!

  11. Fox News just did a report on the “Sarah Palin is a c” t-shirt (just seeing it now) — Obama set the tone – the favorite t-shirts during the primary against Hillary was “Bros before hos” —

    AGAIN – where was the DNC = where was Obama when the Trinity Church was mocking Hillary?

    I wonder if I wore a t-shirt that said “Obama is a Racists or Obama is a N” — would I be spattlered all over the TV? Maybe that’s the ONLY way to bring this issue to a head.

  12. paganpower – Gosh, I had no idea John Lewis killed people. Oh wait – that’s because he didn’t.

    Honestly, I think people like campskunk and masslib just want to be “cool” and have weak personalities. They feel guilty about their support of Obama, so they take everything out on us!

  13. OT: I thought Obama doesn’t like white women

  14. Thank you for writing this Riverdaughter. It has been troubling to see this happening. I thought it was especially rude for masslib to copy and paste comments from this site on another blog. That’s not the netiquette I’m familiar with.

    It is tiresome to be constantly harangued about voting for BO or “the Democrat.” I honestly can’t remember this kind of thing ever happening to me before. I think it’s rude and invasive even to ask someone who they are going to vote for. If someone volunteers the information, OK, but I would never ask anyone that.

  15. oh no campskunk too? I hadn’t realized I hadn’t seen them in awhile. There are others I don;t see around either. Does anyone know what happened to Ben Carlson?

  16. I own my vote, too. Thanks, RD. You speak for me.

    People don’t seem to get it when I tell them I am not voting “issues” this cycle. That option was removed by the DNC. I am voting with a purpose.

    Hillary 2012

  17. look underneath the faux anger and distortions and you’ll see naked fear of us. be glad! we are to be feared! i speak of the angry american voter!

  18. Mawm,

    I really miss UpstateNY. I don’t know why he left. And Ben Carlson hasn’t been here in a long time either.

  19. State of Disbelief said “I do not believe there is one person among the PUMAs that would be anti-Obama if his win was in accordance with the principles of Democracy as we have come to believe. Hillary’s loss would have been devastating, but healing would have been possible.”

    That’s hitting the nail right on the head. What we PUMA’s are po’d about is that Obama DID NOT win this nomination fair and square. Hillary’s delegates were NOT able to cast their legitimate votes for her at the convention, as every other Democratic candidate had been able to in the past. The VOTERS were not able to speak. WE are the ONLY ones who are supposed to elect the candidates NOT the party elders. THAT’S WHY WE’RE PISSED! If Obama had won the nomination fair and square there would be no PUMA movement. But it became clear that Hillary was not getting a fair shake in the race, and as Democrats we recognize injustice. That is NOT what the Democratic Party is supposed to be about.

    This is what I keep telling Obamabots, and THEY JUST DON’T GET IT. They just get this blank look on their faces and don’t understand why we’re NOT getting on the band wagon. SHEESH!!!

  20. DV, yes, that is a little to close for any politician.

  21. Trust me when I say this:

    The Republicans are going to go NU-KU-LAR on Obambi AFTER the last debate.

    Just watch.

  22. sm77: We can only hope.

  23. madamab, why do people have such a problem saying, “I don’t know”?

  24. SM,

    I sure hope you’re right.

  25. America is beautiful , and so are our friends across the pond
    ..someone just sent me these spectacular photographs, and they are so breathtaking I thought I would share them . They are aerial photos of London at night ….http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/08/london_from_above_at_night.html

    .this is where HItler once bombed , and where terrorists still want to blow things up .
    I dont care what anyone else says ….what they call me , I will never vote for bo .
    he has no concept of what he wishes to control .

  26. Thank you RD. I am SO tired of the pressure to vote Obama, even from people I like.

    interesting blog by Michelle Malkin:


  27. Thanks RD – well, said!!!!

  28. In truth I won’t support an Obama Presidency even if he wins. I will never consider him legit. I am not suggesting anything in particular, just if I have choice between actions, one which supports obama’s agenda, and one that doesn’t, I will chose the not.

    It would have to be legal though, jail is not a viable option

  29. I know about the isolation, the abuse from ….friends. One recently went on a mad tirade about Palin. She is a so-called early feminist who marched on Washington for abortion rights. Another told me “education is free in this country, so all those people who are that stupid to like Palin should be KILLED.” I gasped. Difficult times. We hung up on each other. I am loosing friends left and right (well not right 😉 ). The confluence is my home. Without the courage of all the other pumas my resolve would be the same but much harder to bear.

  30. Kissing babies is traditional, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a candidate do that. I wonder what Michelle will say? Remember when BO offered to get down on his knees to convince a Hillary voter in PA to switch? What is wrong with him? Oh yeah, I remember. He’s a pathological narcissist.

  31. GriffithNC: It’s all about timing. It’s going to be like a fireworks show, all the best & biggest and loudest fireworks are left for the last 2 minutes of the show.

    After they don’t have to look at each other’s faces – ALL BETS ARE OFF. NU-KU-LAR.

    They’ll be no time to respond to attacks – it’ll be a feeding frenzy of mass proportions.

  32. what I posted in the earlier post:

    Again, even though I felt as if I didn’t discuss much with my brother yesterday, I did discuss this fine point. The point that it was HOW, not that, BO is the Dem nominee.
    He had that same blank look that you mentioned and just sighed. They really don’t get it.

  33. When Obama loses and it is close, they will know it was we who did it, and on that day PUMA’s political power will be so obvious the MSM won’t be able to hide it. No one will mention Reagan Democrats anymore, it will be “the PUMAs”. Then get ready to be the most sought after voting bloc, just as the Reagan dems have been for the last 28 years.

  34. Dear RD,

    people who are so abusive – calling contributors here the awful names they do, and who cannot try to comprehend why many of us feel as we do, as if we had no minds of our own – seem to me to be awfully scared. After all, anger is an expression of (possibly temporary) helplessness. It seems to me that people like masslib are scared that BO might not win. To me that is a good sign.

    I thought, BTW, that this was an excellent post.

  35. Because the Repubs have given us 8 years of President Idiot without once attempting to put the brakes on him, their credibility has been completely shattered. And even though McCain is probably not Bush Lite, the thought of breaking tradition as a loyal Democrat is something voters like masslib are struggling with.

    She more than likely has no use for Obama. How could anyone who supported Hillary Clinton? But she is most afraid of changing parties as any of us would be in changing religions. It has been steeped in us and the Repubs have not done us fair over the intervening years.

    But in no way would I vote for Obama no matter who urges me to do so. If it means stepping “outside the box” to send a message I am prepared to do that. I personally believe that McCain is a better person than Obama even if I disagree with most of his policies.

    For me, voting for Obama is a validation of this entire sham of an election conducted by the DNC. It is not possible for me to simply shrug this off and pretend that is all for the good of the party. I no longer feel as if I have one.

  36. Thank you Riverdaughter and I am not happy about voting for John McCain, but the alternative is horrible. Today on Fox News there was a segment in regard to four Obama supporters wearing T shirts that used to C word and the word pucker%&#@*# and it all goes back to the way Obama supporters have been so disrespecful of women. I do not know how any women vote for Obama.

  37. what a great post, River Daughter. You articulated exactly what I feel. I am now absolutely committed to voting for McCain/Palin. This will not change until Hillary runs in 2012.

  38. Here’s why I am pissed — I am FURIOUS over the mocking of Senator Clinton and now I am FURIOUS over the same attack against Sarah Palin –well, let me back up – I think Hillary was treated much, much worse but the obots were trained for Sarah Palin.

    I absolutley DO NOT like Obama, he’s an opportunist, he’s a liar and you can’t trust him.

    The DNC handed this to him for who knows why. They have sold out the American people and women of the world by disrespecting Hillary.

    BTW — Barney Frank’s lover is an executive at Fannie Mae or maybe it’s Freddie Mac — either way – he’s making regulatory decisions and dating an executive. I call that a conflict of interest.

  39. The only way people switch so fast is $$$.

    Sorry, I said it. I don’t put it past any blogger making some cash from the O-borg to suddenly switch overnight.

    Money talks and principles take a hike down the toilet.

  40. I do not know how any women vote for Obama.

    I do.

    The old lure of something for nothing is at the root of most scams. Just think of all those Nigerian e-mails in your inboxes.

  41. My sister ranted about Palin too, and she ranted about Hillary. for different reasons of course. In her case I know she had an abortion a long time ago and now either can’t or has chosen not to have kids. Palin’s anti-choice stand was one of her reasons for hating Palin. I don’t know if Palin actually makes her feel guilty since we don’t discuss it.

    But, later I told her I thought she might be one of those women who can’t support other women. She always seems to have some major objection to both women who had a chance of getting in to the WH. My sister generally listens to me since mostly we are close.

  42. Pat!!!!!!!!!

    Love it that you’re back posting. I thought Eddy & you were on a honeymoon to Niagra Falls or something.

  43. Great post, as usual, RD. I am concerned, however, that those who decide to vote nothing on top, i.e., leave the top of their ballots blank, may be inviting the BO campaign to fraudulently insert votes for the Dem ticket. Given the rampant pro-BO election fraud that’s already being perpetrated by ACORN, et al, I think this is a valid concern. My particular personal position is that in this election for a Democrat to not vote for the Republican ticket on top is the same as to vote for the Democratic ticket on top. Sometimes, not taking action and adopting a ‘come-what-may’ attitude can invite the very disaster one is committed to avoid. Thus, in order to try to help avoid the disaster of a BO/JB win, I will vote for McCain/Palin.

  44. Thank YOU Swanspirit .. they are breathtaking !!!

    am sending them to all family and friends ..

  45. I really don’t care to try and convert anybody to voting a certain way. If you were an optimist you could even say this election is going to be win win for me. I’ll be wearing my “Don’t blame me, I voted for Hillary” shirt either way.

    But most likely I’ll be casting a vote for McCain/Palin. I’d rather see the Dems lose this election then lose the next four years. Whoever is chosen is going to be like a scapegoat for the last 8yrs of George Bush.

  46. Every new poll gets published on at least half the blogs in Left Blogistan and Greater Wingnuttia. They are not only easy to find, they are hard to avoid.

    Not only that, but the media’s in-the-tank coverage of Obama makes it hard to tell the media from the Obama campaign and impossible to ignore the pre-election Obama haka

    So why would any well-intentioned “friend” of ours think we desired or appreciated them coming here to post Obama talking points?

    Especially when that same person, just days before, had caused a kefluffle here doing the same exact thing?

  47. Ahaaaaaaaaa. ..!!! – DisenfranchisedVoter…….. Purrrrfect ….;))))))

  48. SOD, years of programming.

  49. “For the same reason they would wear a “Sarah Palin is a C**T” T-Shirt”

    They want to be popular with the boys. They don’t want to lose their boyfriend or think they will get the boy of their dreams if they agree with his hateful crap. remember in the 60.s and 70.s how feminists were labeled ‘butch’ or ‘ugly’ or ‘no man would want you’. The pressure worked. How many times have I heard “I am not a feminist but I believe in equal pay for equal work”. women did not want to be seen as feminists because they wanted the boy, family and children and bought into the idea that she couldn’t have it and be a feminist. Like where are the boys gonna go if we stand up for ourselves.

  50. So someone thinks bo gave a great speech … that is ALL he ever does … didn’t anyone ever have a boyfriend/ girlfriend whose best promise was

    He has not lived up to a single thing he has ever said in a speech FOR GODDESS SAKE turn the sound off and watch the man and and his actions he is a casebook classic study in words not mathcing actions

    ps be careful if you do turn the sound off to watch him its kind of scary to see …

  51. The world has come to an end when you can say –

    …interesting blog by Michelle Malkin:

  52. myiq2xu, on October 13th, 2008 at 5:50 pm Said:
    Every new poll gets published on at least half the blogs in Left Blogistan and Greater Wingnuttia. They are not only easy to find, they are hard to avoid.

    Not only that, but the media’s in-the-tank coverage of Obama makes it hard to tell the media from the Obama campaign and impossible to ignore the pre-election Obama haka

    So why would any well-intentioned “friend” of ours think we desired or appreciated them coming here to post Obama talking points?

    Especially when that same person, just days before, had caused a kefluffle here doing the same exact thing?

    Can Capt. Spaulding intervene in this case?

  53. Absolutely nothing could change my mind about not voting for Obama. I am determined to vote against the MSM, the DNC, and the Dem nominee’s Axelrovian tactics. For me, that means pushing the button for McCain/Palin, something I never dreamed I’d do. But then I never dreamed so many of us would be badly betrayed by the party we have long supported.

  54. Thank you River Daughter, and amen.

  55. SM77: When I feel the depression ascend because of this election I feel it is better to take a sabbatical than to attempt to inflect and infect my particular emotions onto this otherwise amazing blog. The anger and disillusionment sometimes takes hold to a degree that the only way to channel it is by replacing the continual garbage messages with something different.

    Reading, visiting, taking walks, cleaning a closet, writing a note, helps to close out some of the barrage of messages that are nothing but Obama tripe. It wears on one after awhile.

    I can say that several days of the tv being off has helped somewhat. But the gloom has not altogether disappeared. My touchstone for the most part is this blog when it comes to the election. The end of this trial is near and although it may not play out to all of our satisfactions, at least we have stood firm.

  56. Good bye Barack Obama, a hearty good bye to you! It was not at all a pleasant meeting, we are so glad you’re through!

    “Raging bulls
    Dow jumps 936 points in biggest point gain ever. The Dow, S&P and Nasdaq all gain over 11%.”


  57. Goodbye Barack Obama, a hearty goodbye to you! It was not a pleasant meeting, we’re so glad you’re though!

    “Raging bulls. Dow jumps 936 points in biggest point gain ever. The Dow, S&P and Nasdaq all gain over 11%.”


  58. OT, but we use the expression “pull the lever”. Does anyone still pull a lever? I’ve punched a card, filled in an oval, and touched a screen, but I never had to pull a lever.

    “Pull the lever” sounds better than “fill in an oval” as far as expressions go. IMO

  59. Hi Pat!

  60. Pat, I have the Radio Station and the music there to sustain me , but espeically good friends with whom I talk on the phone .
    If anyone wants to exchange numbers email me …swannie @ cygnusradio.com
    without the spaces of course 🙂

  61. Lately, the Obamabots have been screaming in anger about the ‘anger’ displayed in McCain rallies.

    How many times have you heard, over the months, MONTHS, Obamabots saying ‘there will be riots’ if Obama loses?

    I remember seeing an Obamabot on National Television saying “Hillary has no future in the Democratic Party if she doesn’t concede.”

    I read the New York Times breaking out in a frenzy of whining that the Clintons weren’t doing enough to help “the One”.

    They say Sarah Palin doesn’t have the experience of Joe Bidden.

    I know Obama doesn’t have the experience of John McCain.

    They say Obama is the ‘winner’ and we’d better side with the ‘winner’.

    I know they wouldn’t have to say a word if they were certain ‘the One’ was going to win.

    I know that November 4 we will see if the only argument for supporting Obama that has any merit is right. And I know that he may very well be ‘the loser’.

    And the more I study Obama the politician, and the person, the more certain I am that Obama ‘the loser’ is a good thing.

    However, for feminists, I can specifically see one reason for voting for Obama. McCain will only serve one term, and he may die in office.. And if he does, or even if he doesn’t, you could be looking at a divisive fight four years from now to.

    Hillary vs. Palin.

    So realistically, to avoid conflict four years from now, maybe you should elect Obama this year. Just saying. That’s all I’ve got that actually is pro-Obama. I figure by throwing it out there I can claim to be objective… just like the MSM.

  62. Lisadawn82

    I KNOW! when I sent out that Michelle Malkin piece I said, “I normally think Michelle Malkin is a nutcase, but here, she has a point”

    left is right, up is down, black is white, war is peace

    Nothing is same anymore. Fox News is where I’m getting news now, never thought THAT would happen. sheesh.

  63. So irrelevant they have to come and read this blog, and leave comments.

  64. How irrelevant can we be , if the race is still so tight ??
    You know there are always spineless people who fall over to the winning side , just so they can be there …

  65. You need some uplifting?? Watch this PUMA NOBAMA video!!


  66. I say use your anger to do something productive that will prove these assholes wrong. If you are for Nader or McKinney, find out how to help your respective candidates. If you are for McCain, sign up to help his campaign in OH and PA:

    NYC AREA DEMOCRATS CANVASSING IN SCRANTON, PA…we need 50 people each day to get FREE transportation from the McCain campaign
    Please email your commitment to pocpuma@aol.com

    * Sat Oct 18th
    * Sun Oct 19th

    * Sat Oct 25th
    * Sun Oct 26th

    * Sun Nov 1st
    * Sat Nov 2nd

    See schedule below. Contact Paulie Abeles at pabeles@RealDemocratsUSA.org

    Fri Oct 17th:
    * Columbus (meet-up to start and briefing)
    * Circleville (Pumpkin Festival)
    * Washington Court House
    * Wilmington
    * Lebanon (King’s Island Haunted Halloween Festival)
    ** Overnight in Lebanon (2 per room cost of $43 per person)

    Sat Oct 18th:
    * Hillsboro
    * Chillicothe (WWF wrestling expo)
    * Bainbridge (Festival of Leaves)
    * Waverly
    * Piketon
    * Portsmouth
    ** Overnight in Portsmouth (2 per room cost of $46 per person)

    Sun Oct 19th:
    * Jackson to
    * Chillicothe (WWF)
    * Circleville (last day Pumpkin Festival)
    ** Columbus (ending point and debriefing)

  67. I KNOW! when I sent out that Michelle Malkin piece I said, “I normally think Michelle Malkin is a nutcase, but here, she has a point”

    The ad hominem argument is quite literally among the oldest logical fallacies in the book.

  68. Can we stop quoting people that insult us? They don’t deserve the attention. We’ve know how they felt for a while now. It obviously hasn’t changed.

  69. OK Masslib is a fafiated Obot-sorry to here it I cannot stand liars and cheats next rung up on the pond scum ladder are those of weak moral charater I guess Masslib falls into this catagory…Mass you are still welcome to rejoin the Hillary crowd on Novemver 5th but until then you have made your bed now go over the the Ko’s and Cheeto and lay in it!

  70. My mom told me the other night Obama would take Iowa. We have a family farm there and on tv there is a farm show called “Market to Market” and they showed a speech by John McCain saying how he’d put a stop to Ethanol funding, farm subsidies, etc. So – there went Iowa.

    Farm subsidies in Iowa are very, very small.

  71. If we are so irrelevant how come he spent so much time here?

    Nope. You don’t spend time dealing with irelevant. We’re relevant all right and they know it.

  72. Swanspirit,

    Thanks so much for the photos of London. I sent them to my parents. They lived in London for a year and then went back many times to stay for months at a time. It’s too bad they can’t handle traveling to Europe anymore.

  73. Comment_What_I_See

    If Hillary and Palin ran against each other, there would be no contest. 4 years VP, 3 years Gov. of Alaska vs 30+ years working behind the scenes helping people, 8 years advising the best Democratic president we ever had, and her years of NY State’s US Senator. Who do YOU think would win? NO REASON TO VOTE FOR OBAMA! NO WAY NO HOW.

    Now blow our pop stand, we PUMA’s don’t need your devil’s advocate right now. The Dems need to be taught a lesson, and we’re the ones to do it.

  74. DisenfranchisedVoter.. do you remember when the Nation Mag. wrote an open letter to Obama ? .. pleading and ‘all most’ begging him for the same thing ?? – To start living up to his words ..??????

    LoL … what a joke, so now cl thinks it’s time to do that .. rotflmao ………2 weeks before the elections & the elite want to hold Obama to his word .. !!!! ..

    Which Words ??????

    Which one ??? When ??? .. Where .. The Words he said in SF ?? . .or the Words he said in Montana?? … Michigan ..??? … FISA ?? … Drilling ???

    ” It is also time to hold Senator Obama to his word.”

    truly a case of koolaid poisoning … Yeah ! Right ! .. Let’s all hold Obama to his word .. what a freakin joke …….. It just can’t be for real .. !

  75. masslib?
    whoa…. what a disappointment.

    I know I’ll maintain my Nobama position.
    Nobama is the representative of DNC / RBC, DP, caucuses fraud and corruption, race wars, sexism / misogyny, the undermining of democratic electoral processes, not to mention the additional disrespect of voters by withholding answers and records of his background:
    1. Occidental College records — Not released
    2. Columbia College re cords — Not released
    3. Columbia Thesis paper — “not available”
    4. Harvard College records — Not released
    5. Selective Service Registration — Not released
    6. Medical records — Not released
    7. Illinois State Senate schedule — “not available”
    8. Law practice client list — Not released
    9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate — Not released
    10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth — Not released
    11. Harvard Law Review articles published — None
    12. University of Chicago scholarly articles — None
    13. Your Record of baptism– Not released or “not available”
    14. Your Illinois State Senate records–”not available”

    Nobama, no way, no day.

  76. For those voting for Nader and Barr, unfortunately neither of these candidates are getting any media attention but here is an article that says they may be a factor in this election:
    “All it takes is a few percentage points.”
    So we’re irrelevant? How ironic would it be if Obama loses by a few percentage points? Will we be irrelevant anymore?

  77. ok that is toooo rich ROFLMAO

    It’s time to accept that Senator Obama has won and it’s time to consider what an Obama Presidency will mean. It is also time to hold Senator Obama to his word.

    NOW is the time to hold him to his word ?????HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Ya think?? OMG that is the BEST laugh I have had all day .
    OMG and all I can think of is what John Mccain said in the debate ..
    LIke trying to nail Jello to a wall

    jeeeezzz Loouiiiiizee !!!! my mother always said some people have shit for brains , but I seldom repeat it because she was such a lady; and only said it in private
    ok I have to go breathe ..

  78. Pat: HANG IN THERE – just wait until after the debate.

  79. Team Inevitability is wearing on my nerves.

  80. Oddly enough, this has not made us want to vote for Obama.

    Well, that’s the understatement of the year!

    But the constant, abusive pressure to vote Obama must work on some people, since once-reliables have drunk the KA. Sad. It’s also very sad to me that much of Obama’s success has not been based on intelligent evaluation of his record or experience or even what he says he’ll do, but on junior-high level social networking. It’s post-rational, emotional manipulation, and it’s what got us into trouble 8 years ago. It won’t be any better just because Obama claims to be a Democrat.

    And it doesn’t work on PUMAs. When I’m at my most angry or depressed, I still have a little smile left over because the Obots can’t understand how peer pressure/voting as your friends tell you to could possibly NOT work on any group of people. It astounds, mystifies and enrages them. That will never change.

  81. Hang tight folks, and never, ever give in.

    BTW the Dow has shot up amazingly. Bad news for BO.

  82. Simo: DID you call the police about crazy man in front of your house?

  83. Even if I found myself standing alone I still could not disrespect my own principles. This election showed that principle does not count as much as winning at any cost. But I stand with Patrick Henry.

    You don’t win by forsaking all you hold dear at the expense of selling out to an imposter. Never honor dishonor or else all is lost.

  84. thank you so much for writing this RD — I for one stopped reading the comments and/or commenting for awhile specifically because of masslib and her ilk. I don’t care who says what — I will never ever vote for that man….. nothing can ever legitimize him in my eyes.

  85. Comment_What_I_See,

    That is utter bullshit. I would love to see a presidential race between Hillary and Sarah. Two women running for president? Now that would be history making.

  86. BTW the Dow has shot up amazingly. Bad news for BO.

    You forgot Obama rules. He is better on economy if it tanks and is responsible it it improves. And he doen’t have to do anything either way.

  87. Pat,

    I understand your need to get away sometimes, but I have missed you so much.

  88. When are we getting the October surprise? I. WANT. IT. NOW!!

  89. btw – is there a blog masslib wrote? where is it? did I miss it here? (sorry, on the road right now)

  90. Gary,

    I noticed that too. Where have you been? I’ve missed you too.

  91. This is such BS. I don’t care if you vote for Obama. heck, I’ve gone back to the write-in. But I do care that a)people seem to take offense to me saying McCain is actually a conservative Republican, know who you are voting for, for example, he is not going to rely on Hillary to implement a national health care system. Ain’t gonna happen. b)polls are trending toward Obama, this is an extremely unemotional statement. Doesn’t say I am for Obama, LOL, it says polls show a Dem landslide, up and down, because of outside factors, ie the economic melt down, and for me at least, since I support Dem’s down ticket that would be one good thing out of this fiasco, c) I don’t particularly like being told to “f*ck off” or “being called a “race baiter” because I suggest that Repubs didn’t want to just regulate Fannie/Freddie, but that they have a long standing desire to crush those programs, d) anyone can come here and say yeah, I’m voting for McCain!, however if I come here and say well, I really don’t like this troopergate business, they are railroading her even if I don’t support the ticket, and then someone says “the polls are lying”, and I say “no, Obama is surging because of the economy”, to have someone say that means I’m “drinking the koolaid” is fricken ridiculous. But it’s no use. On one side, I’ve got people telling me I’m drinking the Obama kool-aid, on the other side, people telling me I’m a McCain cheerleader. It’s crap. I’ve had it. Why don’t you go back and read the comments before you admonish me?

  92. Comment_What_I_See—

    That scenario , Gov. Palin against Hillary Clinton in 2012, is a dream come true. I hope I can live long enough to see the day when two women vie for the top office in the land. Thanks for all your posts–I will be filling out my ballot tonight. NoBo!

  93. Comment_What_I_See—

    That scenario , Gov. Palin against Hillary Clinton in 2012, is a dream come true. I hope I can live long enough to see the day when two women vie for the top office in the land. Thanks for all the comments on this thread. I will be filling out my ballot tonight. NoBo!

  94. Gary- I live in the bay area – when I get home I could BART over to San Francisco and thump his head !! Perhaps it will knock some sense into it.

    I don’t see how anyone who is gay could vote for a man who wouldn’t take his photo with Mayor Newsom and wouldn’t march in the Gay Parade.

  95. hey bb…just kind of hanging back a bit. I loved your earlier post btw. I had a really busy day at work too. I always watch the sappy 4th of july celebrations on PBS and get all bleary eyed…your post did that to me too…

  96. This was supposed to be our year of celebration: Hillary on her way to the White House and all would be well. Instead feel like I have been left at the goddamn altar!!!

    I love this blog and all who reside here and my intent is to never, ever bring it down with my case of the blahs. But then something happens and I get angry all over again. Anger is the best way to blow off steam as depression is merely tamping it down. And when former posters have the temerity to attack us for our principles and positions, those same dupes who agreed with us only weeks ago, then I have a difficult time finding any meaning in what they say.

    Screw them!!

  97. ok i need a little break back atcha laters

    love and huggles

    PAT and Pumas all !

  98. NH .. as far as I can tell there is no way Obama can live up to any of his ‘economic ‘ promises….I can’t believe that cl doesn’t know that . Hell, even Obama has stated “that it will all have to be later” …

    not exacts words , but you all know when and what he said & when he said it .. the real disgusting thing is all of us knew before hand that Obama was a complete gasbag – 6 or more months ago … funny thing is masslib & cl agreed .. LoL .. YeP .. they agreed cl agreed until a week 1/2 ago or so … masslib..? – I really don’t know when she “changed her mind” .. but whatever .

    Just like BO !! .. changes his mind the minute the wind blows anyway but his way ,

    Perhaps, this is just a thought, maybe cl is trying to get his blog hits up …stepford obama supporters herd sometimes .. all though , gee ………didn’t work out too well for jm .. Also, I thought his ‘feelings’ got hurt cause ‘a few’ … here did not quite want to be as disillusioned as ‘he ‘ thought we all should be .. over the financial crises … well Golly GEE … that sure is a sucky reason to radically change positions … NOT.

    Whatever their reasons are , ..NOW.. .. it’s o.k. by me, however I know them now .. I know what they are made of and if you add water to it …. it goes away, swirling .. right down the toilet ………… Flush.

  99. Thank you for saying this Riverdaughter.

  100. we knew the heat would get intense…now we know who are real friends are and who has the intestinal fortitude to stick it out till the end.

  101. ok, i’m getting on the treadmill now…time to lose some of this ridiculous weight i’ve gained since february 🙂 be back in a bit…

  102. masslib, listen to yourself. There is a reason why people take offense to your statements. You don’t seem to know when to back down. If you just respected the people here, no one would be on your ass to stfu.

    NO ONE on this blog is planning to vote for Obama. I don’t know if you seem to understand that. People here have decided to sit out the election, vote for McCain, or a third party candidate. If you can’t stand the fact that some here have decided to vote for McCain, go elsewhere. You either respect that decision or come back after the election. It’s as simple as that.

  103. masslib,

    Oh please. What I take offense at is you implying we don’t all know perfectly well who and what John McCain is. This blog doesn’t support John McCain. We support people making up their own minds. Why don’t you make up your own mind? Everytime I read something by you, you have switched positions. I’m sorry you are having an inner struggle. But we don’t need you to explain the facts of life to us. Save your energy for your inner battle with your conscience or what ever is going on inside your mind.

  104. “What ever happened to the good old
    IF everyone else jumped off a cliff would you too???”

    Don’t all Lemmings do that?
    (couldnt resist the obvious)

    can’t log in with anything other than mamasmama.

  105. So many of my friends have had their Kool-Aid and now try to convert me. Masslib is still a friend and still confused. My gut tells me that on election day she’ll opt to vote none of the above.

    But what is interesting, former Hillbots turned O’bots are like ex-smokers. They are the most vocal and pushy because they figure if they could do it so can the rest of us.

    Sorry folks. This guy wouldn’t vote for Obama if he was running un-opposed.

  106. It’s funny the things that people will do or tell themselves because they want to be on the winning team or who they believe is winning at the time. No one likes to define themselves as a loser.

    For myself, I feel I would be a bigger loser if I caved into peer pressure than if I stood by my basic principles and lost an election.

  107. Brianna,

    All BO ever offers is tax credits. We need a new New Deal, not more trickle down economics. I listened to some of the speech and it was just more of the same–slightly updated Ronald Reagan crap.

  108. Masslib:

    I read the comments. On our post, and on a couple of yours too.

    You came here last Friday and picked a fight with the same people you argued with a few days earlier.

    Then you bounced out of here and posted a diary bad-mouthing us and misstating what happened.

  109. Oh, and Masslib, you were the first person to make a big deal out of this by publishing several posts on Alegre’s Corner bashing Riverdaughter and the Confluence.

    People are leaving Alegre mainly because of you. Whenever I go over there I feel like I have to either praise Obama or stfu because you always have a comeback for anyone who doesn’t agree with you. That is why people on both sides are offended by your comments.

  110. masslib: I am not sure why you keep insisting on posting here when you know how we feel as a group. No Obama under any circumstances. It matters not what the polls and soothsayers say, we reject him outright. And that position stands even if he should pull this out. The man is a sham. You know it, we know it, nothing will change that perception.

    But what irks is coming in here and trying to make us see the reasoning behind your support. Then proclaiming that a Dem congress and a Dem president is the best thing to happen. We do not see it that way. A president by the name of Obama pushing through legislation unchecked when we all now he is in the pockets of some very unsavory characters is another 4 years of Bush getting away with the same.

    If this were Hillary, I might agree as I believe she had the public at heart. But 4 years of an Obama and a Cong Black Caucus calling the shots will be a disaster. So color me anyway you choose. I do not believe it is a good thing at all.

  111. Swanspirit-those fotos were fantastic.

  112. lisadawn82,

    I have never voted for a winner ever, except the two times Bill Clinton won. I guess I’m used to being on the losing side. I voted for McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry. In the other elections I voted third party. I had to hold my nose on every one of the Dem votes except McGovern and Clinton.

  113. blah blah blah

  114. New Hampster,

    I’m glad you are standing strong. I still like Masslib. She was one of my favorite comenters back at the Cheeto. I think she is trying to work this out for herself, and I wish her the best.

  115. SM77 —

    I’m with you sister. The foundation is being laid.

  116. I don’t have a problem with anyone deciding to vote their conscience wherever it leads them but I do have a problem with people badmouthing a group of which they claimed to be a part. How is that person a friend?

  117. Fuzzy is committed to Not Voting BO-

    If the goddes came down to me and said vote Bo…

    I would say No

    If she laid all the kingdoms of the world before and said Vote for BO

    I would say NO

    If she said see in right left arm is bolt of pure lighting I will cast it at you and strike you dead now but would spare your life if I voted for BO

    I would say NO

    I cannot be much clearer than that-

    By the way gary I am a commited gay man I find the female form beautiful and one of the god/des most sublime creations!

  118. SM77 — I’ll be sure to bring some extra lawn chairs for the show. 🙂

  119. bostonboomer,

    ML has been coming to our debate chats and also posting some at http://www.partizane.com She’s a fine and a dear friend when away from Alegre’s. A’s corner is confusing for many, the reason I left in addition to whacko anna shane.

  120. DisenfranchisedVoter

    I believe they hate us for our strength.

  121. Hi Pat!!!! Missed You!!

  122. I wasn’t at AC very long but Anna Shane did freak me out while I was there.

  123. NOw that I think about it we have TONS of posts from both masslib & cl … stating the whole truth about Obama & the dem. party tactics … with embellishments .. !!!

    maybe a list is required .. ;))) .. lol .. just kidding – our memories are just fine thank you very much ..

  124. Thanks, NewHampster. I haven’t attacked Masslib. I just don’t want to be talked down to or harangued. I got enough of that at DK to last me a lifetime.

  125. Pat Johnson, on October 13th, 2008 at 6:33 pm Said:

    masslib: I am not sure why you keep insisting on posting here when you know how we feel as a group. No Obama under any circumstances. It matters not what the polls and soothsayers say, we reject him outright.

    Well, seeing as how the post is addressed to me, I think I’m within my right to respond. I in no way have tried to encourage voting for Obama here. That’s just not true. I don’t care if the polls turn out wrong and McCain wins. I don’t want to hire either of these jokers. However, I won’t live in some delusional world where after being in a deadheat for months, or trailing in important battle ground states, that directly following the economic collapse, Obama’s number would be up, but what it really is is lying polls. I don’t see a problem with acknowledging how the economy has shaped the race.

  126. fuzzy is right on and hilarious

  127. Anyone else hear that BO now has his own flag? The hubris never ends.

  128. NewHampster, on October 13th, 2008 at 6:31 pm Said:

    “Sorry folks. This guy wouldn’t vote for Obama if he was running un-opposed.”

    I would. I would vote “NO”.

  129. NewHampster,

    Don’t you dare try to steal fuzzy away from us. We adore him.

  130. boston, how have I attacked you. It was someone here who attacked me, and was cheered on, simply because I said the polls are an accurate reflection of what’s happening because of the economy., not because I’m on some kind of kool-aid.

  131. They enjoy being oppressed by this patriarchal society.

  132. One thing you can say for bloggers: opinions run deep in this country and many are not afraid to express them.

  133. birdgal,

    BO has his own flag? WTF!? Do you have a link to a photo of it?

  134. masslib: give it up. We know what McCain is. AND we know what Obama is. This is not an argument you can win.

  135. Here are some of Masslib’s recent posts at AC:

    “Election’s over, Democrats WIN!” http://alegrescorner.soapblox.net/showDiary.do?diaryId=1301

    “ACORN: Don’t believe the hype” http://alegrescorner.soapblox.net/showDiary.do?diaryId=1311

    “Why it is NOT okay to vote for McCain”

    “Edgar08 has a point”

    Read them, and the comment threads too.

  136. I’m not stealing anyone. Can I borrow?

  137. NewHampster,
    you crack me up and I needed this before I leave work to go home. THANKS!! 🙂

    NewHampster, on October 13th, 2008 at 6:31 pm Said:

    “Sorry folks. This guy wouldn’t vote for Obama if he was running un-opposed.”

  138. Well…I guess so, NewHampster. But take very good care of him.

  139. RD, I wrote to people close to Hill today and said it comes down to the devil I know vs the devil I don’t. I know John McCain. I have no idea about bambi other than his love of self.

  140. glad to help leslie

  141. I love you RD — someone had to say it in a nice, respectful way that you just did (and which I seem incapable of). Thank you.

  142. birdgal – own flag?? you’r kidding – what next – he’ll put a copyright on his hair style?

  143. RD thank you for putting in to words how the majority of us on this forum feel. I have said many times that I started out the primary fully intent on voting who ever the Dem nominee would be. Around S.C. it all changed for me and it just got worse and worse.

    I began to read and search for every thing I could find on BO.What I found convinced me that he is not qualified to lead this country.I don’t like his win at any cost cut throat Chicago style politics and his supporters bullying tactics.

    I will never bow to any one’s idea or suggestion or threat to vote for a person that I truly cannot stand and certainly do not trust just because they claim to be a Democrat.My vote is very precious to me and I will never vote for any one that the Dems tell me too like I did in the past.Those days are over and from now on it is country over party.

    To see the DNC blindly follow him and disrespect the Clinton’s and all of Hillary’s supporters is the biggest insult that has ever been perpetrated on a party before.What they did on May 31st and at the Convention told me that these are not Democrats and I will never sanction their behavior with my vote for their chosen candidate they are trying to shove down my throat.My eyes have been open and I am angry and ashamed that I have been blinded by my party all these years.

    Nope, not going to be a good little woman and fall in line and vote for who ever they tell me to.This old bitter clinging to my guns and religion typical white person will vote her conscience from now on..I will have no part of a party that practices this type of third world gutter politics.

    With the in the tank media beating the drums for this inexperienced and corrupt man like they did for Bush only on a much less grander scale,shows me they are trying to pick our President again.I will not help them do it.We must break their power.

    I respect everyone’s views but sure don’t understand the ones that are voting for BO only because he has a D behind his name.That is their right just as mine is to not vote for him.Don’t try to sell me on him, that train has left the station a long time ago and it ain’t coming back.

    I am putting my future in to the hands of a true American hero a man that fought and nearly died for his country. A brave patriotic man that loves this land.

    He is not perfect or a saint but he is a person that I trust to always do what he thinks is right for this country. To me he is the much better person.
    BO is not or will never be in the same league.

    I just don’t feel that same sense of love or respect for America in him like I do for McCain. If any thing I see the opposite,a man that hangs out for years with people that have harmed it and regret not doing more and wish they could still destroy it some more.

    So just from knowing who his friends and associates are makes this a no brainer for me.No Obama No Way No how.

  144. Mawm, we still pull a lever here in NY. We have those old-fashioned clunky voting machines.

    I’ll be pulling the lever for McCain-Palin on Nov. 4.

  145. Ok is Masslib Alegre? Or is she just someone who posts there? If Alegre’s Corner has become Obat territory why is the Link still up?

  146. It is time for my “new crush” Lou Dobbs. At least I feel somewhat vindicated by someone associated with the MSM when he expresses what I feel. He can’t stand either one of them and isn’t afraid to say it. And he used to give Hillary points during the primary.

    Good old Lou!

  147. fuzzybeargville, on October 13th, 2008 at 6:41 pm Said:
    Fuzzy is committed to Not Voting BO-

    If the goddes came down to me and said vote Bo…

    I would say No

    If she laid all the kingdoms of the world before and said Vote for BO

    I would say NO

    If she said see in right left arm is bolt of pure lighting I will cast it at you and strike you dead now but would spare your life if I voted for BO

    I would say NO

    I cannot be much clearer than that-

    I wouldn’t vote for BO even if Bill & Hillary came to my house for my Boliche & black beans & rice and we all got stinkin’ drunk off of Maker’s Mark and Presidente beer, Bill dances merengue and bachata with me, Hillary dances with Bill a romantic Bolero and I take pictures for the Clinton family album for keepsakes….and then Bill & Hill offered to clean up my divorced single mom’s credit and paid me a full scholarship for graduate school and full college scholarship for PUMA cub…

    I’d still say: no way, no how NOBAMA & P.U.M.A.!

  148. riverdaughter, on October 13th, 2008 at 6:49 pm Said:

    masslib: give it up. We know what McCain is. AND we know what Obama is. This is not an argument you can win.

    WTF does that mean? How many times can I say I don’t really care which of these guys win, but I have heard people here say “McCain will make Hill treasury secretary”, “McCain will pass Hill’s health care plan”, if you know McCain, you know that isn’t true. I don’t want to win the argument. I’m gald you know what Obama is, i’m still in the dark, but rd, go back to the comments I made and for which i was attacked, ALL I SAID WAS SARAH PALIN WAS BEING RAILROADED AND POLLS REFLECT THE FRICKEN ECONOMY. Just go and look, and then tell me why that is supportive to Obama.

  149. SM: We get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  150. I posted this 2 threads back but I’ll put it up here.

    From what I can see they are now Obama supporters who don’t like Obama.

    Bingo! That’s the impression I’ve gotten but couldn’t phrase it right.

    And this is what got to me over there:
    Apparently, it’s all in for McCain at the Confluence or you’re not welcome, you have drunk the kool-aid

    I’ve never seen anyone here say vote for McCain. As I wrote in my reply there , people here have said they’re either voting for McCain, or 3rd party or leaving the top of the ticket blank.

    I’ll say point blank I’m not voting for Obie and will vote for McCain. It’s my choice. I wan to try to stop this unqualified candidate from being elected and I have such disgust for the Democratic Party at this time.

    As I said before, I just really dislike someone not giving the whole story when writing something about this blog.

    BTW: waiting for vet to call me back on my pupper. Geez, I miss her when she’s at the vets. 😦

  151. BB and others:

    This is so sickening.

  152. I said this once before and I’ll say it again. The Democratic Party has caused irreparable damage this year. No one wants to discuss what happened in the primary. Most of the party leadership wants to move on after they abused us and split us apart. I don’t care if Obama wins. The party will still remain divided and it will come back to bite the Democratic Party in the ass in 2010 and 2012 if not longer.

  153. Pat Johnson, on October 13th, 2008 at 6:59 pm Said:
    SM: We get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  154. masslib, you need to calm the f*ck down. Screaming at riverdaughter here will not get anyone on your side.

  155. I AM supporting McCain/Palin.

    I am just finding out that Democratic foreign advisor to Carter and now Obama, Zbigniew Brezinsky, and his manipulation of the world’s armies brought us the Taliban. Thanks so much – Mika should hide and shut her ignorant and biased mouth.

    Bill Clinton has declared that this International Economic Crisis was caused by something he did for good, and the Democratic Congress twisted it into the nightmare we are facing now. McCain and the Republicans tried to stop it and were voted down. The Democrats including Hillary are awash in taking money from these groups that sold the Planet down the river.

    The Democrats brought us ACORN and God only knows what else and tossed all of us under the bus with their rigged elections and thuggery while spending our money.

    Had the Republicans not promised a Blood Bath over the $140,000,000,000 the Democrats were attempting to hand over 2 weeks ago to ACORN, they would have had even more money for their thuggery and illegal activities.

    McCain/Palin want a halt to spending until they figure out how to strip the garbage out of our Budget. Obama wants to give Billions to everyone including almost a Trillion to Africa over 8-10 years.

    The World is only beginning to start to react to what the Democrats did to them. They aren’t much in the mood for our excuses and reasons for tanking their economies.

    McCain/Palin have 100% of my support. Good, Decent, Fiscally Responsible Leaders are the only thing that can save us from these creeps.

    DEMOCRAT (noun) – What is that word you keep using, I don’t think it means what you think it means ❓


  156. Alegre’s corner isn’t Obatville, that said, it leans democrat and he is the standard (throwing up a little) bearer right now.

    There are some over there that seem to think that “any dem” is better than “any repub.” I disagree vehemently. If the Dem is a crook and can’t be trusted then “any repub” works better for me. I’d rather not help in the destruction of core principles like honesty, fairness and respect that have normally been the democratic standard. Not even if it means the democrat wins. Then again, when I win I want the win to mean something. I’m not into winning just for the sake of saying so and I don’t think any end justifies the means.

  157. I don’t know you, NewHampster, but I like your blog partizane; I especially your descriptions of the Obot wife.

    As for voting, I also have a renewed respect for Nader, but have clearly stated I’m voting McCain/Palin this year. Nothing, of course, eases any of the pain of losing our right to vote Hillary. However, if I were reticent to announce my voting intent, I would paraphrase Peg Bracken [think that’s who said this] who said, “I never discuss sex with anyone to whom I’m not currently married.” I think we could switch the wording very nicely to the voting booth and candidates.

  158. masslib: This is still a Hillary site. You must know that. We all have hoped, prayed, petitioned, lit candles, made pacts, anything to see her nominated and then elected. Some of us get peeved when she openly supports Obama, but overall this remains a Hillary site.

    McCain is an alternative. Another party is an alternative. Few here go ga-ga over McCain. But we strongly feel that he really likes HIllary and hopefully has the sense to make room in his administration for her. But we just throw it out to keep her alive if you will. Please note: we are not always literal in our comments.

    We just admire her so much and Obama as her replacement just stinks!

  159. Masslib:

    What did you say last week that upset several people here?

    Friday was the first incident.

  160. birdgal – just listening to it….sounds like nobody will be paying taxes…he just got to expending benefits…..

  161. Ok why does NewHamster want to borrow the fuzzybear….

    Look Masslib polls are one thing I know a little something about…they are not correct theyare biased toward democrats who always turn out in lower numbers than polls predict. They weight urban areas (which always have lower turn out than rural) and they wieght all ethinic groups except caucasians.

    In a country as vast an d diverse as ours there is no way to do an accurate poll with a sample size of 2000 people specially when the country is so closely divided.

    A more accurate results would come from a sample size of around 50,000 minimum.

    Polls in this race have become nothing more than another weapon in the psycological warefare the Obambi MSM use.

  162. well said parentofed and thanks for the comps.

    I agree on the vote because as cal so rightly says “a vote for mccain is two votes, one against Obama”. a none of the above or nader or mckinney is only one vote against Obama and I’d like as many as acorn can give me.

  163. McCain for me at least, has earned respect from me because he is WILLING to earn my vote.

    He’s begged for my vote when he announced HOLC, Hillary’s plan. And despite his party, I can trust John McCain in his word because he defended and co-wrote Comprehensive Immigration Reform with Russ Feingold and endorsed by Ted Kennedy and our illustrious Hillary Clinton.

    I’d only vote McCain in the event if FL (which is where I live) is too close in the polls. At this point, I may go NU-KU-LAR and vote McCAin/Palin – but I’d rather go wherever the WOMAN is at, regardless of party.

    Yes, I am voting V&GINA. And????

  164. A “speech” by OBAMA? Anybody can give a speech, and it doesn’t mean the person will do what he is promising or that the personality of the guy has changed. From his record we know that he will continue to flip flop, that he will turn and laugh at the voters for believing his “words”. We have seen the same behavior over and over again, its just that the language used to deceive is getting more polished and sophisticated.
    I will not fall for pretty, sofhisticated lies/speeches.

    Thank you guys for this blog and your encouraging comments. The Confluence and other PUMA blogs are my political refuge.

    Hechos y no palabras
    McCain/Palin ’08

    Hillary Clinton 2012


  165. viv

    We are gonna hold hands sing kumbaya and live on hope. We don’t need no stinkin’ taxes(rolls eyes).

    Guess he hopes people haven’t noticed that when federal taxes go down a) state taxes go up to make up federal shortfall. b) roads and bridges fall apart. FEMA doesn’t work and we have a deficit. Hey, let’s all sing “Happy days are here again, because of taxes and the agreement by both parties that they are “bad”.”

    Why not just switch to calling them fees and be done with it, that’s what are local dems did?

  166. sm

    Florida is polling for Obama. There is no fence anymore. I’m sorry.

  167. birdgal,

    Good heavens! What is that thing? I’m going to have to look into this. Yikes!

  168. gqmartinez, I agree. We all feel angry and betrayed right now but let’s not say anything too offensive that could be used against us on their blogs. They find a way to take our comments out of context so let’s not help them.

  169. bb says:birdgal,

    Good heavens! What is that thing? I’m going to have to look into this. Yikes

    Someone on another board saw it, when she was watching FOX. The guy never quits his hubris.

  170. I do not understand why we suddenly care about our detractors or how they see us. They’re going to take the remarks out of context anyway so why not give them to take in context. Or better yet, why not stop talking about them? All we manage to get is angrier when we discuss this. I’m sure there are other things happening that are probably more interesting.

  171. BB: I googled the Ohio State flag, and it is the Ohio State flag. The big “O” fooled some people. Excuse me.

  172. SM77 I just do not believe florida is as close as they say I think it is psycological warfare… what do you think?

  173. thank you regency

  174. I went to the doctor today for my physical and declared I really do need Xanax. My doctor and I have known each other for a long time. We had a 10 minute conversation about Obama.

    He knew I was for Hillary and we discussed it earlier this year because he was afraid of what her HC plan might do to his business (they are barely hanging on with the high cost of insurance and costs with Medicare).

    I gave him all of the information for sites to see what was going on. He likes Joe in the Morning and thinks Mika is a fool with her “I’m a Journalist”. He thinks they have gone insane at MSNBC.

    He asked me why everyone thought Sarah should know everything.

    He logged in to his computer out at the desk and started pulling up all the info.

    It was funny because he and his associates are asking the same questions all of us have been asking, “Why has the MSM not challenged anything about Obama?” He wants to know why he has provided his health records while he calls McCain old with Melanomas.

    People may not be on line like the maniacs we are, but they have it figured out!


    (I got the Xanax.)

  175. birdgal,

    Thank goodness!!!

  176. Pat – where is Eddy??????

  177. I am asking Lou Dobbs to move in with me. Eddy is now among the missing and there is plenty of room. Lou, my new mancrush!!!

  178. Carol,

    I’m glad you got the Xanax. Thanks for the funny story too.

  179. Carol: I thought you had him.

  180. Regency,

    You’re right. I couldn’t care less. I just wish they would leave us alone and talk about us behind our backs if they must. I just want peace. That’s why I shut off the MSM.

  181. I think everyone needs to start readying themselves for the “it’s all your fault” haka, post-election.

  182. Regency – you are right why worry abt these people…check this out with the roaring puma

  183. regency,

    I don’t care about what is said about me but I absolutely believe it is imperative to fight the Obama is inevitable meme as well as this idea that voting for him is somehow okay because his “policies” are better than McCain’s(while completely ignoring the fact that his charecter allowed him to mischarecterize people and commit fraud)

  184. Here’s why it matters, regency: You don’t have to be friends or agree on issues to be allies–allies being people who will vote with you. I find many online people to hold massive grudges and cursing and being rude can very easily be used as justification to vote against you even if they intended to vote with you. If you care about winning, you need to consider those sorts of things.

  185. Actually a vote for McCain is 3 votes. 1 for McCain/Palin, 1 against Obama, and 1 for Hillary since it is against Obama. Works for me.

  186. DV,

    Thanks. So it wasn’t a contributor to this blog. I love SOD and I don’t blame her (?) one bit.

  187. F*ck being nice so we are not quoted out of context. We will be anyway so why bother tippy toeing around? Say it like it is. Who cares what they think anyway? We know who we are and why we think as we do.

    Few of us here go offsite to drop bomblets and retreat. For the most part we stick close to home as it was getting a little unsafe out there anyway.

    No apologies. Just facts. If that makes us hateworthy, so be it. No Obama. I just wish I knew what happened to Eddy.

  188. I am going out for my 5.5 mile walk some one tell katiebird I miss her-be back when done~!

  189. BB: Same here. I don’t go anywhere else anymore. I like NQ but it wreaks havoc on the hardware so that’s a rare stop. TL is gone. PumaPac Blog was always too hard for me to navigate. AC was nice for the two posts I put there but it wasn’t home either. I’m where I want to be. What other people say about those at this blog doesn’t interest me nearly so much as what the people here at this blog have to say about the election.

  190. Pat – I have Xanax – I don’t need Eddy. He was too much trouble. I sent him away. I thought he would just migrate back to you. He is probably hiding out for now. He doesn’t want to have to ride with the Obama’s in the Subaru – even if they are in the trunk.

  191. Regency,

    I’ve been reading The Real Barack Obama a lot. But they don’t get too many comments.

  192. It is simply impossible for me to vote for Obama.
    Ever, I think.

  193. Cwaltz & Fuzzy : I’m waiting it out for now – FL will be McCain territory, no doubt. I’ll get off that fence once I see that the Repubs do AFTER the debate & see how the polls are in FL.

    Of course, I don’t want to vote Repub, but I can say that I admire McCain for being a veteran and a defender of Immigrants (yes, a soft spot for me OBVIOUSLY). His speech today reminded me of Hillary without a doubt.

  194. There is a song which I remember from my youth, by Peter, Paul and Mary–the best song they ever did, in my opinion. It is called “The Great Mandala.” It is about making a choice, taking a stand, no matter how futile or misunderstood or mocked. The refrain is, “Take your place on the Great Mandala,
    As it moves through your brief moment of time.
    Win or lose now, you must choose now,
    And if you lose, you’re only losing your life.”

    And that’s how I feel about it. One has to stand for something, believe in something. It can’t always be, “lesser of two evils,” “pragmatism,” party peer pressure. It’s our one chance to do something, symbolic or not, to express our feelings and beliefs about this campaign and this country. And like Riverdaughter, I am perfectly comfortable in doing so.

  195. Same here, mb anne. I just can’t do it. I couldn’t live with myself if I did.

  196. CWaltz, I’ve been pushing the Obama is Inevitable meme. It’s one of the main tactics that took Hillary out. If enough bots think he’s going to win then think about all those kiddies who will skip voting

  197. I will be in Orlando for the next 4 days. I haven’t been there since my little baby cakes Ryan was in the 6th grade.

    I miss my little baby cakes Ryan. He will be home for his 10 year high school anniversary next weekend.


  198. pj – totally with ya … no more ms. nice, you betcha!

  199. GQMartinez: I love you but I strongly disagree. Our Conflucian commenting space is open to all those who are PUMAs and who are fed up of the hypocrisy. None of our posters will take that approach, but at the way we are being attacked, I don’t blame our Conflucian commenters to feel the way they do.

    If you want to create more strife, then go right ahead.

    We are some tough bitches in this joint and we started a movement on this blog that will be remembered for decades to come. We reminded Democrats that their vote belongs to THEM, not to some lying, stealing cheating mendacious faux-leader who claims to be a Democrat.

  200. Sometmes people post for their sanity; sometimes people post to create alliances with others; sometimes people post for a myriad of other reasons.

    I have no problem with someone who needs to blow off some righteous indignation at cheap calumny directed at them. In other words, sometimes a
    f**k you, deserves one back.

  201. gg .. why is Riverdaughters blog the one that everyone seems to peer at with a magnifying glass these days ??

    How much nastier can anyone get than calling people ra*ci*st ..?? – If I remember correctly this it what started the negative confluence obsession .. by the other ‘blogs’ . It seemed to somehow ‘signal’ .. that it was now OK to give us all a vaginal examination ..

    A blogger we all respected & read suddenly came up with the “We are ra*ci*st” meme here .. after all the trouble, dedication and perseverance that was taken here by the mods – to completely obliterate those trolls that came along with their %**$)*(&*(!!! bs

    ??? I mean wtf???? I don’t get it.

  202. You wanna fight with me, bb? I’m down with that. Actually, I’m a lover not a fighter. I’m just trying to point out that some posts are “hateful”. I’ve never mentioned that people have to do anything. I just think that we can’t afford to lose our coalition because of blog posts. I’m not saying we have to agree with people or sit quietly as they say obnoxious things. But if saying “F**k You” to someone will get them to vote against our interests it’s better not to say the offending words. This is a close race and, no, we can’t afford to offend people.

  203. (Just got home and eating some edamame for a snack)

    Hmmm, I thought masslib said goodbye to us a couple of weeks ago. I guess she came back.

    Oh well, No “convert a PUMA patch” on her camp scout uniform.

    Yoda: “Smells like a BOT she does”

  204. Regency, on October 13th, 2008 at 7:27 pm Said:
    I think everyone needs to start readying themselves for the “it’s all your fault” haka, post-election.

    WHAT else is new? We suck because we’re Hillary voters, then we suck because we didn’t get drunk off the Kool-Aid? I say F__k it and F__K them. Pixels on a screen don’t pay my rent & feed my PUMA cub.

  205. sm, I was here at the beginning and can’t get certain jobs because I have been a vocal opponent of Obama. But hey, if you want me to leave, that’s fine.

  206. I don’t know why anybody would want to come on here and try to get us rethink our minds about Obama. He and his ilk screwed over Hillary. That is unforgivable. We are PUMAs. We are Confluencians. We are NOT going to support Obama, no way no how no matter what. GET IT!? Now go somewhere else if you want to spew your Obama praise, there are plenty of other places and you will be welcomed there. So GO AWAY.

    Hillary in 2012

  207. AAAG: LOL!!! I’m such a Star Wars nerd & you gave me the chuckle of the day!

    NEW MOTTO: Smells like a bot she does!

  208. Everyone needs to try to calm down. It’s been a stressful week, month, YEAR for many of us. I understand gqmartinez’s request. I also understand why many are outraged and are justified in telling some of these jerks who call us hateful r@cists to go fuck themselves. I prefer to explain why I’m right and they’re wrong along with a f*ck you at the end.

    gqmartinez, I no longer consider some of these people as allies. They have called us every name in the book and they think they are able to get away with it just because they say they don’t like Obama one day then the next day praise a speech or say that he would be better than any other candidate running? These folks are as disingenuous as the Messiah. No one gets away with calling all of us along with the thousands of other Democrats in this country who don’t visit the Confluence but have made a decision not to vote for Obama “hateful”.

  209. GQmartinez, I vote with my principles and I would hope that others are smart enough to do that too. I support McCain. Do you know how many boards I have been on where McCain supporters do not know I am black and will call Obama the N-word? Plenty of them.That does not make me decide to NOT vote for McCain.

  210. GQMartinez: I never said that you should LEAVE.

    All I’m saying is that 1 commenter spoker his/her mind and you claim it as a Confluence writer did it. That’s wrong. And yes, we are some tough bitches in this joint. We are fighting for DEMOCRACY, not for superstah blog worship.

  211. oh and if you can’t handle the language. TOUGH SHIT.

  212. Right on Gary!!!!!

  213. Fuck yeah! (tee hee)


  215. NH

    If a person was a koolaid drinker to begin with then I say by all means let them think he is going to coast in on angels wings. Right now I am fighting to get those that were not initially Obama to not pull the lever for him merely in a go along to get along manner. I am ardently against all of us holding hands and jumping off a cliff because Obama is “inevitable.” Polls be darned.

  216. Going home. Hang in there Gang.


    Hillary in 2012

  217. btw .. there is a great pic here that describes the way I feel exactly .. as an “Expatriate Democrat” .. plus the article is written by a dem … a dem of 42 years …. yeah , I empathize ..


  218. Well, DV, we are running out of allies. A few deep breaths before posting can go a long way. I’ve never criticized anyone for posting rebuttals–ever. Hell, I’ve been called a racist and don’t like it. But we know there are people who are easily offended and can’t handle vulgarity, so don’t do it to those individuals. I won’t get offended if you give me an F-you cause that’ smuch less offensive than being called a racist, IMO. Kicking me out of the blog won’t get me to vote for Obama, but it will to some people. And if we care about winning we need to consider that.

  219. This is such BS. I don’t care if you vote for Obama. heck, I’ve gone back to the write-in. But I do care that a)people seem to take offense to me saying McCain is actually a conservative Republican, know who you are voting for. . .
    Masslib – that is BS. I get so tired of hearing that Obama is the most liberal senator. NOW THAT’S BS. He’s no more liberal than Michelle Malkin. The right wing blogs I go on (Powerline, Red State, The Corner) do not like McCain. THEY DON’T LIKE HIM. Of all the Republicans we could have gotten, he’s the one most likely to work with Democrats to get some Democratic positions through. Obama, IMO, will work with Republicans to get things through. Once he decides just what his position is – he’s weak, he folds. You had only to watch him in the 21st debate when he was hit for the first time. Yes, give me McCain any day over Obama.

  220. I talked to my mom in Florida yesterday and she told me she voted for O! You Floridians better come to terms with what may be happening there. The seniors are very concerned with their investments and, wrongly, think O will actually do something about that. She also told me she can’t stand Sarah. Maybe she is too peppy for the old ladies. I also think they like Joe a lot so that is helping O. She was big on Hillary but apparently not a PUMA. Sigh……

  221. I seldom post here but this is too much to resist. Hear me now, I will never vote for Obama. It ‘s not just my long memory, but a more recent conclusion, Obama is not right for America at this time. Also, whether you like it or not, I have grown disenchanted by Hillary. The reason I liked her so much was because I felt she would always put country first. Oh, I know, you all feel that she’s doing what she needs to do for her survival. Well, to me, this is just not good enough. She made me believe that Obama was not right for this term, and I concur. It’s a little too late for me now. Obama will never do. Gee, that felt good.

  222. gary, that’s the truth. Many of these intellects who feel the need to judge us have never once themselves experienced what it’s like to sit in a rbc meeting or get yelled at while canvassing or working at a caucus next to the Obamabots. I have heard stories about Clinton supporters getting punched, pushed, locked out, and threatened because they chose to take a stand and not sit on their asses to blog about polls and political theory.

    Whenever I attended pro-Clinton and now Democrats for McCain events, you’ll find the people working their asses off are grandmothers, waitresses, blue collar men, even teenagers. I rarely see any academics (besides Heidi Li) willing to take a stand for these people or wanting to put in any grunt work. It doesn’t surprise me that most “intellects” support the Messiah.

  223. Nicely put Gary.

    Personally, the Emily Post argument makes me want to puke. Yes, let’s all make sure we don’t offend anyone because no one, but a select few, has ever heard the f word. Piissssaaawwww.

    There are times when nothing but the most explicit language will do. Don’t leave home without it.

  224. Joan: FL will go McCain – no doubt! Just wait for the fireworks AFTER the last debate.

  225. sm, as far as I know this site is the only one that did actually do things.–us and Pumapac– Carol and fuzzy helped raise thousands of dollars. you did all of the design for the pumamobile, indigogrrl did all that work for us for nothing. How dare these asses who do nothing but stroke their own egoes all day say that WE are hateful? Then there are the people here who have provided consistent moral–and financial support like pat and not to mention katie and bboomer who have spent countless hours making this place a safe haven. worthless ingrates all of them….

  226. Madazhel:“Dissing your base is beyond stupid.”

    Amen. That is why I don’t see how Barry can pull this out. I definitely do not see this projected landslide. Contrary to what Donna Brazille or as I call her the Wicked Black Witch of the Press says, Obama can not do this with the AA vote alone. We are only about 13% of the population. But I guess she may have been counting on the millions of dead AA’s and their social security numbers to help Obama out with that.

    Obama’s base is cracked. He turns off a lot of DEMS even more that Kerry did. So I don’t see how he can do it without getting the Chicago Machine to pull it out ala Kennedy v. Nixon.

  227. chay — come out and join us more!

  228. Thank you Gary. I’m with you all the way!!!!!

  229. BB, surely you haven’t forgotten my sarcasm…. I wanna marry you, not fight you–wait, isn’t that the same thing?

    I don’t have time to follow the threads here. It goes from zero to 200 and I can’t keep up. Corrente doesn’t have that problem. And all I do is preach to the choir here. Corrente has a lot of “tepid Obama” folks who are growing increasingly disenfranchised with obama. Can you blame me for finding that fertile ground?

    Here’s the thing: the media, the Dems, and the Obamosphere are pushing the Angry McCain/Palin supporter/PUMA story line. Do we have reason to be angry? Of course, who likes being treated the way Obama critics have been treated? But when the opposition is going out of their way to paint us as these angry, “hateful” people, we shouldn’t make it easy for them. And following the news, this is the new haka.

    For the record, I use “we” all the time in reference to liberals. That’s just my way.

  230. gqmartinez, on October 13th, 2008 at 7:55 pm Said:
    Well, DV, we are running out of allies. A few deep breaths before posting can go a long way. I’ve never criticized anyone for posting rebuttals–ever. Hell, I’ve been called a racist and don’t like it. But we know there are people who are easily offended and can’t handle vulgarity, so don’t do it to those individuals. I won’t get offended if you give me an F-you cause that’ smuch less offensive than being called a racist, IMO. Kicking me out of the blog won’t get me to vote for Obama, but it will to some people. And if we care about winning we need to consider that.

    Dios mio pero, ¿que es lo que te pasa?

    You need to understand that no one is kicking you out. All I’m saying is that one commenter’s opinion, whether he/she used a “F__K” or not, is justified and SHOULD NOT be used as a blog war against the writers here.

    Calm down. Please.

  231. Thank you for expressing such cogent thoughts.

    And I continue to appreciate the support system I find amongst my fellow Conflucians.

    My resolve to exercise a “protest” vote has only hardened over these past months..

    I will remember in November.


  232. ok, I take time off to get away from the madness and when I come back all hell has broken loose…. 🙂

  233. I find it a bit tricky staying true to myself in this topsy turvy world of late.
    There are very few certainties in it anymore.
    One of those few is: Obama is like W, only worse. he also steals elections. Anything else is up for debate.
    And thanks RD for putting things in clear terms once again. Indeed, there’s no candidate for us in this election at this point.
    Our choice is – which was to express our protest Election Day. Because, as we said back in may,

  234. Glad you’re confident, sm!! A little insurance never hurt though. Fireworks???

  235. Thanks for the shout out gary!!!!!!!!!!

    Also, I heard either 30k or 60k felons have registered in Florida. They are looking into it.

    Barky is not going to win. Decent people will come out to stop all of this.

    I don’t know who the radio guy was this after noon but he was listing all of BO’s BS adding the tagline, “you are called a r*cist if ………………….”

    I was furious when I got home.

    I’m not picking up the Xanax until tomorrow morning on the way out of town.

  236. Mawn — they had the “epiphany” Obama promised & now know they must vote for Barack! LOL

  237. what they are doing is setting us up to look like stark raving lunatics…they think it puts us in a box. we quiet down because we don’t want people to think we’re crazy. but then if we stay quite, no one hears us. I say let them think we’re crazy. the majority of this country is on our side. I believe carol. Most sane americans do not want obama to be president.

  238. gary-Me, too! WTF? Blogger-wars break out! Give peas a chance.

  239. Good News – 3 weeks 1 day before the Election. Does anyone think it will really be over then ❓

    I don’t!!!!!!


  240. Sorry for typo – “Essene Prophecy”. (can spell, but sometimes the typing slips…)

  241. Joan,

    Interesting post. I have noticed that many older female voters do not like Sarah. Three told me that she is too strong. WTF? No offense to boomers but I don’t get this. I am gen X and I have noticed in my career that some boomer women are uncomfortable with successful colleagues.

    Concerning Florida. I agree it needs to be worked on. I have been trying to do my part.

  242. Gary & Mawm: Exaclty & yes, I wish I could do more, but I’d be living in your PUMAmobile if I did (lol!)

    We created somehting out of nothing, we took it to the streets and for those who couldn’t go to the streets, we contributed funds that could have gone to gas & groceries. We already sacrificed our November votes in the name of Democracy itself.

    Personally, I think it’s blog envy or they got paid by the O-borg to join them, have you seen we are over 3.5 MILLION HITS?????

  243. Gary,

    Please don’t leave again! Nooooooooo! We need you. How about one of your hilarious posts to change the tone around here?

  244. McCain for me because he chose a woman Governor/former mayor with an average upbringing to be his VP, that simple. McCain has a nasty temper, Biden is a liberal WASP through and through and Obama is Harvard lawyer with 0 management experience. Only the 2cd woman VP candidate ever and coming from the Repub side – Ha! I really want her to make history and be a role model for my granddaughters because nothing much is going to significantly change for us without a viable 3rd party.

  245. Carol-How do you get Xanax so easily? I want some.

  246. Joan – okay I will give “peas” a chance!

  247. AAA gal,

    I’m a boomer and I love Sarah, even though I probably disagree with her on almost everything. I can’t resist her.

  248. We’re going through the same pains at Capital Hill. A few of the members feel it necessary to lecture everyone on how they should vote.

    I, too, think I’m voting third party.


  249. well, as far as the bailout/crisis bs….my life hasn’t changed one bit since this whole thing started. I call shenanigans on alll of them…or maybe I’m just too poor to notice anyway. But even so, I never was afraid I was going to lose my job. My bank didn’t shutter up the atm. nobody around me was panicking at all.

  250. It’s been a few weeks since I’ve stopped by Anglachel’s place. Say it ain’t so? Most disheartening to hear her cocktail has been spiked with the Kool Aid. Wow.

  251. angienc, lol.

    I told Gary that if I have “the epiphany” check me into the hospital because I’ve been drugged.

  252. My doctor understands my pain. Go back up and read my post about the doctor’s office visit today. He feels the same way.

  253. Oh, and I think I’m voting for Nader.

    I’d vote for McCain except he keeps slamming Liberals. And I PROMISED myself I wasn’t going to hold my nose to vote anymore.

    I don’t care that much for Nader but, it’s not quite a hold-my-nose vote. More like covering my mouth for a cough.

  254. Joan, on October 13th, 2008 at 8:06 pm Said:
    Glad you’re confident, sm!! A little insurance never hurt though. Fireworks???

    THe biggest and the fiercest fireworks. Repubs are waiting until AFTER the last debate. That’s what they always do. Look back in time, look at how they’ve won every election. They’ve always caught the Democrat with his pants down 2 weeks before Election day.

    Like a Fireworks show, they save the best for last. Trust me.

  255. bb, I pointed to a very specific comment and never tried to trash the blog as a whole. Nothing I wrote could be construed to imply that, and if it did, I apologize.

  256. KO just asked why “McCain doesn’t have the ‘stones’ to just come out and tell Obama what he thinks about Ayers”?

    KO – if you had any ‘stones’ McCain would be feeding them to you you piece of sh*t!


  257. Just for the sake of levity…

    John McCain, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama all die and go to heaven.

    God looks down from his throne and asks McCain, “Do you think you deserve to be in heaven?”
McCain takes a breath and then replies, “Well, my friend, I’ve dedicated my life to fighting for the betterment of my country and what is right.”
God looks down and then says, “You can sit to my left side.”
So, McCain takes his seat.

    Then God asks the same question to Hillary, “Do you think you deserve to be in heaven?”
Hillary thinks for a second and then replies, “I think so because I have fought tirelessly for the rights of so many people for so long.”
God again looks down and this time says, “You can sit to my right side.”

    Finally God turns to Barack Obama and asks, “Do you think you deserve to be in heaven?”
Obama smiles and replies, “I think you’re in my seat.”

  258. But weren’t we being marketed by the media as “bitter” to begin with? It was a form of manipulation. When I say I am a PUMA , I am told:

    1. I am stupid, bitter, sleep with a gazillion cats and stuffed animals, sew my own clothes, eat dinner alone listening to Putmayo CD’s, etc

    2. If I was for HRC how could I embrace McCain because there policies are different.

    I have learned not to care. I guess I have too much to deal with from blacks by being an AA for McCain, that the PUMA antagonism has taken a back seat.

  259. Poor me, I can’t take any mind altering drugs. The only thing I have left is caffeine, and I’m not giving it up!

  260. AAAG-I agree. I think some women are their own worst enemy. I guess older women, especially, are uncomfortable with a confident in-your-face woman. Sarah does seem to be love her or hate her. I love her and so does my daughter. Tell her to iron your shirt, fellas. Ha!

  261. edwardian, I don’t think Anglachel is drinking the kool-aid. I don’t think she’s voting for anyone in this election. But she has always been pretentious – at least enough to call Riverdaughter a r@cist. Anglachel hates Republicans and she doesn’t approve of the fact that many here have chosen to use their protest vote on McCain. It’s unfortunate that she is unable to respect our various choices.

  262. new post upstairs guys

  263. jvsp-Hysterical! That’s him in a nutshell.

  264. gqmartinez,

    Do you defend us when people at Corrente call us racists? That’s the only thing that counts. No apologies needed.

  265. Gary some place in no cakalaki

    I have to stand up for an old friend. masslib came to NH to work for hill and even ran up against sean hannity one day. I hear she gave him Hill.

  266. I am going to proudly say “I brought down Barak Obama-what ae you going to do about it!”

  267. Thanks for the clarification, DV. Can’t believe she called, or would even intimate, that RD is a racist. Puh-leeze.

    (((hugs))) to my “sistah” AAAG. We’re gonna get through this together — our dignity and integrity intact.

  268. fuzzy I hope we can all declare that together holding hands across the tubes we can all sing kumbya and we brung him down.

  269. Thanks RD, your reasons for not drinking the koolaid are my reasons, and the r@acist sh*t flung all over without a care hasn’t done a thing to convert me either.

    I’ve not a single doubt in my mind that if BO descended from two blond and blue-eyed parents my not trusting his Chicago style politics, his blatant misogyny, the thinness of his resume, and his flip-flopping on important issues (FISA?) would be exactly the same.

    Congrats on surpassing 3 and a half MIL!!!!

  270. Wow, I step out to have dinner and all h*ll breaks loose.
    Hi, Gary – missed you – glad you’re back.

    AAAG – I’m older than boomer and I love Sarah – she’s young and bright and has a great future ahead of her because she seems willing to work in a bipartisan way. :))

  271. GQM is good people, and he has defended me at Corrente.

  272. Oh crap! I accidentally included the “r” word, uncensored. Pardon.


    Thanks for the clarification, DV. Can’t believe she called RD (or would even intimate to be) an “r” word.. Puh-leeze.

    (((hugs))) to my “sistah” AAAG. We’re gonna get through this together — our dignity and integrity intact.

  273. River Daughter;

    Thank you for this post. It has been bothering me quite a bit to see some of ourfriends have been drinking the kool-aide. it’s really sad that some who were among the strongest anti-Obama bloggers are now spouting pro-Obama BS. I have quit going to AC because of this and a couple of other blogs I used to love as well.

    It really pisses me off when people try to “lecture” me into changing my vote and even more so when it comes from someone who “agreed” with me a short time ago. On top of that people attacking this blog and/or PUMAS is just not goping to fly in my book. If they no longer want to support the PUMA cause and the principals behind it they should just go on their merry way and not bother tying to convince everyone else to follow them.

    I for one will never vote Obama no matter what. I once said i’d never vote McCain either but I’ve come to the conclusion that McCain is 2 votes and that it sends a stronger message. Not only that but of the two candidates we have left McCain is the only one with any resemblence of abilty to do the job and he has a true servant’s heart like hillary. he truly wants to serve and he loves this country. Obama loves himself and wants to be served.

    No Way No Obama in November!


  274. Hey guys,

    We are having a party up on the new thread. Please come on up!

  275. [[[[ giving Garychapelhill a ‘virtual’ high five ]]]]

  276. well RD, nobody says it as succinctly as you do —
    your reasons are mine, as well…

    except, I am so angry over what they did to Hillary that, let’s just say my Party lost me at Brazile — remember that night — we all watched–

    my vote for McC? He has vowed to go after the FRAUD that just messed us all up — that’s enough — and see this — this is unreal in a President — but not this candidate — this alone…


    after Hillary — now this?

    finally London tells the world today:


    we need something better than that after the last eight years…

    I can take the next 4 — on REFORM alone.

  277. SM77 — [[[[ cue the Jaws theme ]]]] 🙂

  278. Eating your own must be tasty. I’m waiting for the PUMA Recipe Book.

  279. Crazy is my middle name…

  280. ok, I take time off to get away from the madness and when I come back all hell has broken loose…

    Me too!! But goddammit, this is what makes it interesting. It gets the blood boiling once again!

  281. Thanks, RD. I appreciate this.

    I just absentee voted McCain-Palin in Michigan.

    PUMA lives. PUMA is a tough road — I still get the chronic yelpings of “racist!” and the “But you’re GAY! How could you vote REPUBLICAN?”

    I did. Sarah Palin didn’t bring Kmeic and McClurkin on her campaign stumps. Obama did.

    Hillary ’12.
    PALIN ’08!

  282. just got back from dinner — catching up from garychapelhill, on October 13th, 2008 at 7:50 pm —

    G — That’s right honey !!

  283. this has been the most pleasant and interesting presidential race now that i don’t have a horse in the race. i can really look at the news and commentary completely in a neutral frame of mind. i still haven’t decided who i will vote for in the presidential race or if i will at all. i do know that i will not vote for obama. i think it would be political and economic suicide for all of us/or at least myself, to have both houses and the pres full of very liberal dems. if i don’t vote, obama doesn’t get my vote. if i vote for mccain i do double the damage to the dems in rewards for stealing the nomination. they evidently don’t want voters like you or me.

    i tried to explain how the election/nomination had been stolen from hillary to my feminist women friends. they seemes mildly interested but now range from wild enthusiasm to surrender for the dem candidate. not me. we tend not to talk politics which is fine with me, or if we do, i point out my neutral stance. it’s actually pretty fun and funny to see their reactions, because after all, they really don’t know why they support obama.

  284. ******

    That is utter bullshit. I would love to see a presidential race between Hillary and Sarah. Two women running for president? Now that would be history making.
    JOKE. Ok. J-O-K-E.

    Did you perhaps take the context of the rest of the post?

    Did you like the rest of the post, and that sent you into a spiral of hatred? The end was a JOKE. I was attempting to be cheerful. I am apparently bad at it.

    Seriously, though, I do admit to being as objective about Obama as the MSM. J-O-K-E. Maybe a bad one. But that’s what it was.

  285. Masslib wasn’t trying to pressure anyone.

    When riverdaughter makes such an accusation it would be better to provide a link to the comment so people can see for themselves if masslib was trying to pressure anyone to do something.

    This reminds me of how people are treated on dailykos when they say things that don’t fit the narrative.

  286. Is it rude to transfer a blog post to another site to present another POV even if all of the information identifying this site is transferred? I’ve put a few posts from here on a news site that I post on occasionally. There was no intention to be rude. Sometimes the issues are so superbly presented here that I wanted to share.

    If it was wrong, I apologize and I won’t do it again.

  287. Edgar08, I never even see you on this site so how would you know the full story? However I DO always see you over at Alegre’s Corner as Masslib’s sidekick. If more than several people on this site are annoyed with Masslib’s comments, then maybe, just maybe, there is a good reason why she was told to stop with her talking points. But I doubt you even actually went through the threads here to find out the real story. You just read Masslib’s latest post on AC and immediately took her side.

    Oh, and I just read about your comment calling us dumb. Stay classy.

  288. Edgar08 — I remember you from TL & no offense, but I think you have no legs to stand on to come here & try to muck up trouble without knowing the whole story — do you think all of us (including RD) are lying? Do we really need to provide you with links now? What’s wrong with you doing your own search? Do I go over to AC & try to pick fights with you? I was going to write a big long explanation of the truth about what happened here — but since it is obvious to me that that is not your objective, I’m not going to bother.

  289. Sorry. No I don’t see the full story. And I don’t know how to look up all of masslib’s comments here.

    Here I’ve already been accused of trying to muck up trouble.

    And yes. myiq2xu came over to AC to pick a fight.

  290. I didn’t call anyone here dumb.

  291. Edgar08: the threads here are very long, but I think masslib and myiq have given a couple dates for most of the discussions in question. You can page through those.

  292. I can see that you actually said your post was dumb. Don’t worry about it too much – these are long days.

  293. Just like Masslib comes over here to pick a fight? If you think myiq’s comments at AC is called picking a fight, then there is no defense for Masslib’s comments here. myiq had to go to Alegre’s Corner to defend himself from being accused of plagiarism. Oh, and it was Masslib who chose to write a dissertation on a fight that happened on one thread last week. Does she even know when it is time to drop an argument?

    Edgar, if you actually stopped by with comments on the election, i.e. why you support PUMA or why you have chosen to not to vote for Obama, no one would accuse you of causing trouble.

    In fact, no one is telling you that you are causing trouble right now. We are telling you to try to understand both sides of this current situation instead of just reading Masslib’s take on AC.

    If Masslib actually wanted to resolve this current spat, she would’ve came over here last night to make amends. That’s what myiq tried to do yesterday at AC.

  294. Is there any way to search here on comments by username?

  295. Edgar, no there isn’t. You’ll have to search through the threads yourself.

  296. I am trying to understand both sides of the situation.

    myiq drove by AC and accused masslib of repeating Obama talking points, and he didn’t stick around to provide an example.

  297. I’m not going to search through the threads but I’m not going to trust the picture of masslib I see created here on this blog either.

    Not based only on hearsay.

    It’s not going to be “you just don’t know” and then I say “wow I guess I just don’t know, i’ll trust these people over here.”

  298. So you’re telling us that you don’t trust us. That’s a great way to introduce yourself to this site? You and Masslib wonder why people don’t warm up to you here. You come here hostile, attacking us because you’re Masslib’s friend on AC. You don’t bother looking through the threads so you just come up with your own conclusions.

    Also, try to look at Masslib’s comments on AC once in a while and how she responds to people who disagree with her. It might give you a picture into what she has done over here.

  299. No. I don’t trust you folks that much on this issue. From an outsider it looks like a pile on.

    On other issues. I would probably trust people a lot more at an introductory level.

    Let me point out. I was accused of calling people here dumb. I have not. So why should I be incredibly trusting on these sorts of issues?

  300. I think they both referenced comments from last week. There isn’t a clean way to search, but you can do a slow “find” in the threads.

    Something strange did happen, but I am on the west coast and missed whatever actually “started” it.

    Since I don’t have a horse in this race, I’m not interested enough to do any research.

    FWIW: I think myiq was trying to defend his name from another commenter at AC. Where masslib’s post and comments were concerned, It appears to me that myiq was trying to smooth things over with masslib since she was offended by his ‘harsh my mellow’ comment.

  301. I can’t speak for other people here but I looked up what I said to Masslib the night in question

    DisenfranchisedVoter, on October 10th, 2008 at 11:31 pm Said:
    I’m late to the party.
    Masslib, I think you should just be honest with us and let us be. There is no point in convincing anyone here who they should vote for. All of our minds are made up regardless of whether we have decided to stay home, vote for McCain, or vote for a third party candidate.

    Masslib continues to say that s/he won’t vote for Obama but everything she says speaks to the contrary. Masslib, I don’t care who you vote for. It is your vote and you have every right to give it to Obama if you feel guilty about betraying the Democratic Party. You are welcome to post here. But please, please don’t expect to receive a warm reception when you constantly tell PUMAs here that they are bad, bad, bad for voting for McCain or that our votes won’t matter because Obama is surging in the polls and he will win anyway.

    I stopped going to Alegre’s Corner because I saw that you had to have a comeback for every poster there that had something negative to say about Obama or swore that they would not vote for Obama. You and your buddies are also angry at people for giving you low ratings for your comments. What do you expect? People will respect your decisions if you respect theirs. If you want to complain about Democrats voting for the evil Republican, you’ll find a welcoming crowd over at DKos, TPM, and TalkLeft.

    I’m not out to make you feel bad. I know that you have been a loyal Clinton supporter. But people here have already been demoralized for the LAST YEAR by Obamabots and the media. They don’t need more sh*t from other Clinton supporters.

  302. I have my absentee ballot and would be checking off Johnny Mac and
    Sarah right now except that one of my Hillary group friends mentioned
    how she is afraid that someone would intercept her absentee ballot and negate her McCain
    vote. So I’m going to ride my bike down to the polling place and
    put it in the ballot box.

    NoBama ’08, NoBama Forever!

    Please tell me why the DNC is contesting the request to show
    Obama’s birth certificate. There is something seriously wrong here.
    Up is down. I knew if the media didn’t switch from Obama to McCain
    after eliminating Hillary, there was something terribly amiss.

  303. Edgar08 — you only want to cause trouble & I’m not going to fight with you about — in fact, I think DV has been way too kind to even entertain you. I was here, I saw it with my own eyes and I’m not going to explain or defend anything to you.
    You are a troublemaker — and, btw, what is it to you? Are you masslib’s henchman, coming to defend her honor? You need to mind your own business & let masslib take care of herself.

  304. If I ‘pulled the lever’ for Obama, here’s what I’d be saying:

    “I want the man (<– termed loosely) who showed POOR judgment in not choosing Hillary and participated in full blown corruption during the Primary to lead my Country.”

    As if???

    If I don’t ‘pull any lever’ at all, I’m INCREASING the chances of an Obama win.

    As if!!!

    The only choice (for me) is McCain, because it accomplishes 2 crucial goals. One, the diminished odds of an Obama presidency. Two, sends a message to the DNC.

    I really HOPE we don’t disenfranchise our OWN votes and that we ALL go to the polls. Our votes have already been kicked to the curb once. Why let it happen again?

    The Obots will never make me acquiesce. Never.

  305. Thank you!

    My mother is an evangelical Christian — and I too have been exposed to every sort of emotional manipulation.

    I no longer have any contact with my mother — she is toxic. I will not ever join or church or be forced to believe the way she does.

    Obama uses the same sort of evangelical manipulation — his sermon/speeches make me physically ill. The thing is I’ve heard some of the best evangelical speakers and they were speaking from their heart — stuff they absolutely believed in. Obama isn’t all that great — NON of the ministers I heard as a child used teleprompters.

    McCain isn’t a phony — what you see is what you get. He has come to terms with who he is. He is as honest as any politician can be.

    I believe that for most of us the decision of who we will vote for has not been easy — but we have each had to make our own individual decision.

    Early on I couldn’t imagine not having Hillary as a choice — but the DNC took that option from us. Now we have two choices (with not voting or voting for a third party and a symbolic flush the vote down the toilet).

    Obama did not win fairly — he cheated and others have cheated for him. I cannot reward him for his dishonesty with my vote. Obama refuses to tell us who he really is and what his plans are — he flip flop so often that I can no longer keep up with his current positions on any issues. He has flat out stolen many of Hillary’s ideas and work — nothing from him seems to be really FROM him. There is no guarantee that he would implement any of these stolen plans — they just sound good at the moment to the group he is speaking to.

    I do not know who Obama really is. This sort of unknown scares the hell out of me.

    I do know who McCain and Palin are. I don’t agree with a lot of what these two stand for — but I do understand where they are coming from.

  306. masslib posts negative stuff about Obama all the time.


    My impression at AC is that masslib is not constantly telling PUMAs they are bad.

    I think she posted something like this:


    And now everyone here thinks that’s all she ever says. Constantly.

    My response to that, btw, was this…

    “But I have respect for anyone who refuses to let themselves be taken for granted. And to whatever length they feel they need to go to make sure they won’t be taken for granted in the future, more power to them.

    Obama and the DNC created this mess.”

    But, turn that around, whatever length people need to go to to make sure McCain doesn’t get in the white house, I respect that too.

  307. no. i’m not masslib’s henchman.

  308. “I think she posted something like this”

    Look, no offense, but nobody cares what you think. Who are you, Solomon? We’re not all sitting here waiting for your pronouncements. You can make up your mind without thinking anyone’s awaiting your judgment with baited breath, Trust, don’t trust, search, don’t search. Whatever. We don’t necessarily need constant updates on your current thought pattern.

    “And now everyone here thinks that’s all she ever says. Constantly.”

    Well, I have no idea what masslib says at AC, but yes, here she says the same things over and over again, constantly. She repeats herself so often that we can all write her posts for her, which leads many people to believe that’s all she ever says. Constantly. If she wants to change that perception, she might consider changing it up a little. After a certain number of repititions, we get it. If you do the same thing a thousand times and you know full well people are irritated, then continuing to do it suggests that you might be trying to irritate people.

  309. I’ve looked through 8 threads so far.

    Still no constantly.

    I found some posts in one thread and half of them were anti-Obama.

    The other half were anti-McCain.

  310. Edgar 08-what fun to see you on this blog!!!!
    I did like you on TL-I think you were my fav…

    If you want to see all masslib’s comments here for the past month, all you have to do is ctrl+f, on each thread.
    Then you can form your own opinion.

  311. I think she’s canvassing for BO.

  312. Well I found a thread that allows me to come to a real conclusion about this issue:

    This is the thread:


    In this thread masslib calls Obama a fascist

    Masslib: “… I don’t know what the f*ck to do truth be told. i think there’s not there there with Obama, but the Republicans sound like idiots. I mean, they keep calling him a socialist. Like heck. He’s more like a facist. Honestly, I waffle. but the polls make it seem unlikely my vote will count…”

    and predicts that he will dismantle Social Security.

    Masslib: “….say goodbye to Social Security if Obama and and what passes for Dems have all three branches . ”

    And then Riverdaughter wrote this:

    “masslib: Please stop touting Obama. I’m asking nicely now. Next time, I will not be so nice. This is not a place for advocating anything Obama.”

    which seems to make no sense at all to me if it’s a response to anything masslib said before in that thread.

    but it turns out RD’s response was really a response to something masslib wrote in a previous thread about how she might vote for Obama, and not because Obama has any redeemable qualities (no touting there either!), but simply because republicans need a “time out,” and in this comment Palin was praised effusively.

    I will not share my unrestrained opinion of all this with the good folks of this blog, but it appears to me that deviation from an absolutely rigid point of view is unwelcome.

    I have to admit, I myself am often besieged with uncertainty about my vote. I know if I vote for Obama, I would hope that no one would accuse me of rewarding sexism?? No way. You do that, you’re rewarding sexism!!!!

    But wait…..!!!!

    I know if I vote for McCain I would hope no one would accuse me of supporting the things McCain says he supports. Right??? Damn straight!!!

    But because I too am uncertain about my vote, I know that I am unwelcome here and if I stay people will accuse me of working for the Obama campaign in less than two days.

    I’m glad I came here though and got to see for myself.

  313. “But because I too am uncertain about my vote, I know that I am unwelcome here”

    Yes, because only about 70% of the people who post here regularly are unsure of who to vote for. It”s weird that none of them get on anyone’s nerves like masslib seems to.

    Thanks so much for “edifying” us with your time wasting nonsense.

    “I’m glad I came here though and got to see for myself.”

    That makes one of us.

  314. Late to the party again but wanted to say thank you to RD for expressing my very own feelings.

  315. With the current Democratic Leadership, remember Donna Brazille, Reid, Pelosi? We need John McCain in the White House to keep a check on their insanity. They’ve become the Karl Rove wing of the party. If only Hillary. But if you are willing to settle for Obama, expect nothing new. No Universal Healthcare, no progressive Energy policy. Remember it was Obama who voted for Dick Cheney’s Energy Bill. It was Obama who voted to grant telecoms immunity. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

  316. It’s bad enough when I constantly get attacked for being an “old” woman that won’t vote for the “One” because I’m a r@cist. Older folks are ya know.

    Now several people here are commenting that “older” women don’t like Sarah Palin because she’s a strong woman. I call bull$hit. I’m an old woman and I like strong women. That’s why so many of us liked Hillary Clinton if you think back.

    If old voters, male and female, in FL are uncomfortable with McCain/Palin do ya think it might have something to do with the fact that Obama ads are lying and telling them that McCain/Palin will screw with their SS? Or all the lies that the media is spewing about Sarah Palin?

    I guess Ageism is okay now. Because after all, us little old ladies are afraid. Got an idea for ya, how about “some” old ladies don’t like Palin cause she’s too strong and some young ones don’t either and even some middle-aged women that don’t like aggressive females.

    This old lady is sick and damn tired of people spouting nonsense as if they know what the hell they are talking about. When insults come from friends as well as foes it’s time to fold the tent and go away.

  317. Kenosha Marge,

    No, agism isn’t OK. I responded to someone about that last night. That needs to be nipped in the bud. Obviously, none of us “old women” would be here if we didn’t like strong women–all of us long-time posters are here because we supported Hillary and got driven out of other blogs. Please don’t go away!

  318. Edgar08,

    I don’t think you’ve been here before. If you have, it was only briefly, because I’ve never seen you comment here. And now suddenly you are an expert on The Confluence? I have no idea who I will vote for on November 5. The only thing I’m certain about is that it won’t be Obama. I plan to decide when I get into the election booth.

    I like Masslib a lot and have supported her all along. She is clearly confused and troubled about this election, and I feel for her. What I don’t like is when she starts projecting her fear and confusion on other people and twisting what they say and do. You seem to be doing something similar, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt since you obviously know nothing about this blog. But if you’re going to keep commenting here, keep it civil.

  319. Masslib is suffering from that age-old propaganda and psychological syndrome called “voting with the winner.” How sad.

    I won’t be pressured, can’t be intimidated, refuse to be categorized, pigeon-holed and psychologized into supporting a corrupt, criminally inclined fascist like Obama. He’s a danger to this country. PERIOD. I’ve supported progressive ideals and values for a very long time. But Obama has perverted those ideals and values into something extremely UGLY to me.

    I am voting for McCain/Palin. It’s about CHARACTER.

    Obama is a con, “the political equivalent of a sociopath.”

    I’m TOO SMART to be conned by him. And, in my opinion, anyone who is conned into supporting his version of “progressivism” is a complete and utter FOOL.

    I can only say this about voting with the “winner”:

    You’ll rue the day you thought Obama was a “winner” whether he wins or not.

  320. Folks, as a conservative who has come to respect the group that hangs out here, I will merely state the obvious: you all have a decision to make. I, for one, am not all that happy with McCain. But I also put a lot more weight on deeds rather than words; and in that regard, Obama comes up very light.

  321. bmc,

    I agree. I’m very comfortable withholding my vote from the Dem nominee. I don’t vote for corrupt politicians. Never have, never will. In my long life, I’ve learned to trust my intuition along with research. I’ve done my research and made my decision long ago. I’m very comfortable with who I am. Maybe that’s the difference between us and the people who are having last minute self-doubt.

  322. RD, I burst out laughing at this, your acerbic take on the current situation:

    “We have been called stupid, old, uneducated, ridiculous females, a shrieking horde of paranoid holdouts, racists, traitors and Republicans. Oddly enough, this has not made us want to vote for Obama.”

    The Confluence seems to reflecting what’s happening elsewhere online and IRL, with Sen. Clinton supporters coming to grips with watching our own party destroy the Democratic platform and Democratic process.

    I, for one, am voting strategically, instead of with my first choice, which was to vote third party.

    My voting strategy is based on the fact that I live in a swing state and want to be absolutely certain that I cast a vote which, hopefully, keeps Obama from having access to the WH.

    Unfortunately, that vote will be for McCain, and I am none to happy to feel forced to vote R.

    But, I strongly feel that Obama is a too dangerous to my beloved country to do anything else, a this point.

    What a f***ed up, crazy election season this has been.

  323. stillife, on October 13th, 2008 at 6:56 pm Said:

    Mawm, we still pull a lever here in NY. We have those old-fashioned clunky voting machines.

    I’ll be pulling the lever for McCain-Palin on Nov. 4.
    How I envy you! Hubby, a mechanical engineer, says those “old-fashioned clunky voting machines” are almost impossible to rig. We ought to be resurrecting them instead of junking them.

  324. Obama and the DNC stole the primary from Hillary. Hey bro, Hill’s no ho.
    And his connection to Acorn, the housing meltdown and know the financial crisis.
    Let’s stop Obama!!

  325. I know it may not mean much, I’m just one person in a huge pool, but I so admire PUMA’s. What courage and strength to stand up and speak out. I don’t have a “party”, as in Independent and I welcome all of you with open arms and spirit.

    May you all feel the positive energy sent your way from all of us silent supporters (I know I’m not alone).

  326. edgar08, nice bit of Kos misogyny there, just like your hossanas to Rachel Maddow this morning on AC. The same Rachel Maddow who plays up to the boyz and smeared Hillary, the same Rachel Maddow who said nothing against the rampant repulsive misogyny at Air America that ramped up to MRA hysteria against any real feminists once Hillary declared herself a candidate.

    Oh and “sweetie” I’m voting Green party and so are a bunch of us here. I vote for candidates that respect women and women’s rights.

    I think anyone that considers themselves for feminism that votes for Obama a self hater if they are female and a MRA if they are a guy.

    I don’t feel the same is true about ones choosing to vote for McCain/Palin- because Palin, whether you like it or not, is a feminist, and sorry she’s not the rightwingnut that Obots like Maddow have tried to paint her as.

    Unlike you, I’ve actually looked at what Palin says and does (and so help me if you bring up that rape kit meme I’ll point out that obviously you aren’t aware IL state legislature passed the same type law while Obama was serving. Hmm, interesting how he didn’t vote against it, just like he didn’t oppose any of the antichoice laws passed either, and how he thinks women aren’t smart enough to make their own choice on abortion, he would make a woman “speak with her pastor” before she was allowed to have an abortion- doesn’t sound very prochoice to me. Sounds more antichoice than Palin, frankly, who personally is antiabortion but has never proposed antichoice legislation. Oh, and she support a woman having access to contraception and isn’t against normal sex education in the schools- no, she’s not an abstinence only type. Yes, her daughter Bristol- who attended public schools- had the regular sex education courses in her school.) Palin is also a whole hearted supporter of Title IX ( you can’t say the same about Obama)

    I’m not voting for McCain/Palin because, 1) McCain’s sexism (although he’s been considerably LESS misogynist than Obama this campaign season, not just by choosing a feminist VP, but by the way he ran his campaign office- unlike Obama who kept female employees at lower levels and paid them less, McCain put more women at higher levels and paid them more than the men. So much for Obama’s support for equal rights and equal pay.) 2)McCain and Palin’s support for the awful Reaganomics (which, by the way Obama is also a big supporter of)

    I’m voting the party of my values (and the ones Hillary has worked for all her adult life) the Green Party. Glad to vote for McKinney as well, the DNC and fauxgressive bloggers like Kos did a practice run smearing her.

    I will never forget or forgive what Obama, the fauzgressive, and the DNC did to Hillary or to Cynthia. (Not that any of you ever has offered any apologies.)

  327. I support the Confluence on this one and have left Alegre’s Corner for awhile. Masslib started this fight and drug it over to AC’s with a very public post (well yesterday makes two). It should have been handled in a private email to RD. So, here we are.

    I’ve known Masslib to be a strong and smart advocate for Hillary and to display extraordinary fairness to Palin. I respect Masslib, but am not sure what happened to her. One minute she said she was taking a break from the blogs until the election, then 4 days later she returns in support of The One with an ‘in your face’ attitude. If she wasn’t trying to “convert” votes for Obama, she sure sounded like she was. She may not have realized it. I don’t think she realized how much she put people off by her sudden change. She seems to have backed off of her new found support and seems a bit confused why some have reacted to her negatively. I think this is a difficult and confusing time and a misunderstanding could surely be at the root of this dilemma. I’ve noticed a few people acting a little wacky at AC since the economy nosed dived. Who knows.

  328. I came to a decision about my vote last night. When my absentee ballot arrives, I am going to rip it into pieces and toss it in my fireplace to burn, saying a prayer that all of the poison in this election cycle will somehow be transformed into something good somehow, someday.

    I’m gay and in California, and I don’t even care about voting on Proposition 8. The idea that my civil rights are up for popular vote disgusts me. It is repulsive and wrong that I have to cast a ballot to get equal rights. I’ve done it before, but not this year. I’m finished. Tired of begging.

    So fuck it all. For the first time in my life I am not going to cast a ballot. And all I feel is relief. Tired of pretending that it matters.

  329. riverdaughter-

    great editorial. i too am sick of the pressure of not falling down and prostylizing oneself for the “annointed one”. my family have grown tired of listening to me vent and vex over the criminal activities of obama and now i cannot whisper his name without everyone walking out of the room. i will vote for mccain, the first time in over 30 years will i vote republican, but i cannot, cannot vote for such an unscrupulous and absolutely frightening politician. will sombody wake me?

  330. Riverdaughter, this is a great post. It’s heartening that so many voters are not willing to disregard real issues for the sake of throwing in with their party. V4hill brought up an (the best, IMO, and I considered myself a Democrat until partway through this year) option outside those two “equally unacceptable alternatives. Ralph Nader may be a more acceptable option than John McCain for many disenfranchised Democrats, and many who don’t even know it because the media has shown only two parties. Along with not voting for a candidate based solely on party affiliation, it’s important to not vote for a candidate based solely on if he’s one of the two best known or supposedly most likely to win. If you want to be represented in the White House, vote based on issues and look at all candidates (well, except for maybe that really odd “vampyre” guy).

    If some Democrats vote McCain, who is as equally supportive of a corrupt system as Obama, and only a few vote Nader, McCain might very well win. If a lot voters who don’t like either McCain or Obama vote Nader, there is a chance for positive change.

  331. woohoo. Well said, thank you. Who is maslib anyway?

  332. Wow. How very elite and selfish. Have fun keeping yourself pure. I’m going to try to do some good while I’m around.


  333. Well said. When it comes down to it we as Americans MUST vote our conscience in this upcoming election. That is the most important part of being an American.

  334. Could it be stolen identity????

    grlpatriot said above: ” I respect Masslib, but am not sure what happened to her. One minute she said she was taking a break from the blogs until the election, then 4 days later she returns in support of The One with an ‘in your face’ attitude. If she wasn’t trying to “convert” votes for Obama, she sure sounded like she was. She may not have realized it. I don’t think she realized how much she put people off by her sudden change.”

    Edgar 08 certainly doesn’t sound like the sardonic/ good writer he once was.

    Just my 2 cents

  335. I am a McKinney supporter who is voting for McCain/Palin. Virginia is, supposedly, too close to call and I want my vote to count against Obama. Also, the more of McCain that I see the more I like him. And Palin is a great VP pick. I’ll be able to maintain my commitment to the 30% solution when I vote for McPalin in November.

  336. Thanks for your comments. I too am way past being affected by the bullying. How DARE anyone say we are not Democrats?

  337. At this point all the obots are doing is pissing me off even more… and I was way pissed off to begin with. I’m going to vote Republican for the first time in my life and I’m gonna love doing it. PUMA HAKA!

  338. “you’ll see naked fear of us”

    No, it’s not fear. It’s disappointment and disbelief.

  339. After watching Mac’s speech yesterday in Virginia, I am taking Bill Clinton’s advice and voting for Mac – I’m not necessarily a huge fan of his…but i completely related to his authenticity – pumas share mccain’s love of country – this i know…. and “thugocracy” is simply not an option for this puma princess.

    the question remains…are there enough of us out there?

  340. Well, Princess,

    I guess we’ll find out if there “are enough of us out there” on November 4th. Why don’t we have another “roll call” the week before the election to give us an idea of where we stand?

    I, too, will be voting for McCain. I used to think I would have to close my eyes to do so, but my eyes are wide open now. McCain may be old. He is also a Republican. However, I know he would serve this country with honor, because of his many years of service, as well as his unquestioned patriotism. In addition, he has proven that he is able to see beyond barriers such as gender, class, and party to lead effectively.

    So, maybe I was “blinded by the light” manufactured by the Democratic Party for 34 years. However, after they plunged my idealism into the depths of darkness, I was finally able to “see” that my vote belongs only to me, not a party. Although “wedge issues” usually dominate a party’s elections, they are just divisive and partisan tactics. Besides, politicians offer the moon during an election cycle, but they rarely deliver. So, from now on, I will ask a different question: Who is honorable enough to occupy the White House? Who is honorable enough to lead this great country of ours?

    So, I would like to thank all the posters and bloggers for helping me arrive at this logical, although belated, conclusion.

    Good luck to all of you in your personal voting decisions.

  341. When it looks like the world has gone insane, it’s nice to drop by and see people that feel the same way that I do. For some reason, Obama always seems to remind me of Bush–same arrogant, elite, so and so. The more I learn about him the more I dislike him. I will not support him today, I will not support him tomorrow, I will not support him anyway. Flow, river, flow. And may we all purr (and roar) on November 4th.

  342. Amen, and Amen, RD and ALL. When I visit The Confluence, and all the other places frequented by those whom I am honored to know and love, I am reminded of the incredible intelligence, courage and patriotism that still exists in this country. I shall resist my urge to list all of you by name, for there are, fortunately, too many to count, but each post rings that clear little bell in the back of my mind that tells me what is good and right about this country.

    Swanspirit’s mention of London is especially meaningful to me–my father flew over 40 missions out Bury-St.-Edmonds and Alconbury during that War. He, like millions of others, did that, over and over, knowing that they might not return, to preserve democracy. I became a PUMA on May 31, 2008 when I learned that my party no longer represented its people but instead, coopted and corrupted themselves and the electoral system against the will of the electorate.

    I have never told anyone how to vote, but I join with [most] PUMAS in voting for McCain. As someone else said, it is really 3 votes: 1 for McCain, 1 against Obama, The Odious [& Duplicitous–GR8 line there, thx Pat!] and 1 for HRC. I have absolutely no problem with refusing to support a party that betrays its members so completely and I have absolutely no problem refusing to support a supremely unqualified, dishonest, illegal alien in his attempt to take power in my country. At times I am almost glad that my dad has passed on, for he would surely weep to see what Obama and the DNC have done to our country and I will never support the Democratic party unless we are successful in reforming it. I do, however, support Heidi Li and Riverdaughter’s party reform initiative, and I do support John McCain, for he is, IMO, a basically honest, brave and decent man who has spent his life making sacrifices for his country. How has Obama spent his? Well, from what we can tell, not too well…the rest remains a mystery.

  343. Hi all:

    I am looking for a website documenting Obama’s impropriety during the Democractic race for the nomination against HRC. I hear Obama’s name dragged through the dirt on websites like this one here and elsewhere for supposed misdeeds against HRC, without any proof. If you have a good resource, please email any links to earthcitizen88@gmail.


  344. Sorry, I left off the .com – that’s earthcitizen88@gmail.com

  345. I am a former obama suporter for the first time in my life I will vote a complete republican ticket obama is the most unqualified most unknown candidate he has the shady history with ayers that he has lied about from just a guy in the neighborhood to I thought he was reformed farricon wright resco how any one could accept these relationships and not question them is beyond me if it were Mcain or Palin the press would be all over it how can you accept the press and media shoving this down your throat are you all drinking the koolaid they did in jones town and look what happened there the FACTS he has voted to raise taxes 95 times 75% of his votes were present not yea or nay what the hell is that Palin has much more practical experience than obama ever has she has actually run something please take off the blinders think for your self do not let the media do it for you look at this link the last 30 seconds says it all http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=797441

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