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Defined By A Vote?

Are We All Racists Now?

Are We All Racists Now?

For me, this election season has been a continuous cycle of smacks in the face. The Democrats have compounded their disastrously poor performance (no impeachment, no ending of the war) in Congress by selecting, not electing, a Chicago machine nominee who is as corrupt as any Bush Republican and as authoritarian and narcissistic as Bush himself. In a year when any Dem candidate should be winning in a landslide, November looks like it will be another nail-biter, with possible election fraud on both sides. 

But the worst thing, by far, that has come out of this election has been the race-baiting and sexism by Obama’s campaign, his media enablers and his mindless followers. Even a civil rights luminary like John Lewis has started perpetrating the same myths – that it is McCain who is dividing this country and inciting people to violence because ZOMG They’re All Racists!

Oh really? What does Representative Lewis think Barack Obama meant when he told his supporters to “get in peoples’ faces?” Does he think this type of violence and misogyny is fine, because it comes from people who support Obama? If Obama himself does not approve of the behavior of his supporters, which has been out of control for quite some time, then why does he not say so?

Look, there is a lot of ignorance in this country. We all know that. But can we really judge all people by the way they vote? Can we really call them racists because of the way they pull the lever on Election Day?

In that case, how do we describe the 97% of African Americans who plan to vote for Barack Obama? If they are defined by their votes, then they must be voting for Obama because he is black. Right? And because of that, they must be racist. After all, if it’s racist to vote for a white person because of skin color, it’s also racist to vote for a black person because of skin color. (Note: I don’t blame AA’s for voting for Obama. Part of the reason I still support Hillary is because she’s a woman, and I’m not ashamed to admit it.)

Or perhaps a person’s vote doesn’t define him or her. Is that possible for anyone to acknowledge this year? Or has everyone in the fauxgressive Obamasphere gone stark raving nuts?

Do we liberals ever have a real liberal to vote for? Of course not. Like it or not, we are too left-leaning to be President of ALL the United States. If we nominated a really liberal candidate, he or she would end up being as unpopular as Bush, who is too right-leaning to be President. So, it’s always a choice between someone you think is okay, but not good enough, and someone you think is the incarnation of EEEEEVILLLLL. (At least it has been, in the past.) If I were defined by my past votes for President, I could be called a Democrat, but not a liberal.

Furthermore, in the past 18 months, I’ve been willing to (or planning to hold my nose to) vote for the following: “Any Dem 08,” Al Gore, John Edwards, Chris Dodd, “Clobama” (Clinton/Obama Unity Ticket), Clinton, “Obinton” (Obama/ Clinton Unity Ticket) and Cynthia McKinney. Yet somehow, people seem to think that they can call me a brownshirt racist because I am now planning to vote for John McCain.

Think about the sheer idiocy of that charge. Think about the harmfulness of painting all Americans who vote for McCain as racists. And yes, the media is climbing on the suicide train too. The vote for President will likely be split very closely. Are we really planning to claim that about 50% of Americans are racists? And if so, how do we go forward and heal this divide so that we can actually solve some of the massive problems we are now facing in this country, instead of wasting another four years treading water on the economy, the environment, and the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan?

If I thought the Obamans had a shred of decency, honesty or integrity, I might plead with them to reconsider their ludicrous and harmful abuse of the word “racist.” If I thought the Kool-Aid had left them any objectivity whatsoever, I just might ask them to take a more honest look at themselves, and see who is really acting like a brownshirt. And if I thought it wouldn’t fall on ears deafer than Beethoven’s, I might pose these questions:

Does your vote for Obama define you as a person who hates white people? In the primaries, did it define you as a person who hates women?

But I’m afraid they are past the point of no return. They are addicted to blame. They have no interest in solving anything, uniting with anyone or moving forward into the 21st century. They just want their shiny new product and anyone who tries to stop them from getting him, deserves whatever they get. They can’t see how bad Obama would be for this country and for the Democratic Party. They can’t see that he will throw every issue they care about under the bus and happily continue the process that Bush began – turning over the Treasury to his rather unsavory friends and associates. 

John McCain is not who I’d want for President either, but what else is new? I’m used to voting for candidates I don’t like very much. And I’m voting all Dem down-ticket so that McCain won’t be able to do anything without going through a lot of Democrats first. 

I’m so tired of this shit.

Once again, we Americans have allowed ourselves to be divided to the point of apoplexy by two parties which are thisclose to becoming one Corporation, Indivisible, with Poverty and Injustice for all.

If we ever wake up and realize that both parties are trying to screw us out of everything we have, and that we need to vote for individuals, not letters, we might just begin to untangle this country from the jaws of our two-party system. At least the PUMAs are getting it this year. Let’s hope that Republicans are too. Whatever happens in the next four years, we are going to need to try to unify and help each other through it.

No matter who we voted for.

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187 Responses

  1. Whatever happens in the next four years, we are going to need to try to unify and help each other through it.

    Absolutely. This country is going to need a loyal opposition, regardless of who wins the presidency.

  2. Amen, votermom!

  3. Uhhhh, present polling indicates Obama will win easily. What indicates it will be a nail biter? If the election were held today Obama would win by a greater margin than any election since Clinton in 96.

  4. Thanks Madamab,
    love your opening line.
    I’m gonna do a lesbian analysis here (for the sheer hell of it).
    Say I’m a lesbian (well, that’s easy– I am).
    Say there’s an out lesbian running for the presidency.

    I am thrilled to see the first openly LGBT community member running for President. I am excited and proud! I see Americans supporting my candidate and I am so happy.

    Suddenly I see some of my fellow supporters accusing those who don’t support my candidate as being homophoboic.

    I think… well.. sure.. there’ s certainly homophobia out there and I guess that’s a valid point to bring up.

    But then more and more people start accusing others of being homophobic. And I notice that it’s a lot of straight people doing it– as if they know what homophobia feels like. As if they are the ones who have been targeted by it.

    And those people get louder and louder and louder.
    And I notice that anyone who voices an opinion against my candidate is labeled a homophobe.

    What would I feel?

    I would feel shame. I would see that a serious issue has been taken and twisted for political gain. I would
    feel sorrow– for I would know that no one was taking homophobia seriously anymore. That no one was interested in the equality of my community. That a cause dear to my heart had been co-opted, twisted and made a mockery of.

  5. (repost from earlier thread) A glimmer of good news, folks. The photo of smug hipsters wearing matching SARAH PALIN IS A C*NT t-shirts flipped my mother’s vote in a tight state. Either those kids are the most clueless idiots alive or the most devious Republican ratfucking brigade ever assembled, because they’re proving fearsomely effective at galvanizing female opposition.

  6. angelasmith: Exactly. Thank you. I don’t accuse people who don’t want to vote GOP of being sexist. Even when their stated reasons for so doing are sexist.

  7. “a continuous cycle of smacks in the face.” that sums it up well.

  8. Hey, we got a little POLLING HAKA in our thread :-)

  9. Steve,

    You don’t even need to vote for Obama if he is going to win by
    a landslide. It’s all bigger than we are. He has been chosen by the
    corporate-consolidated media.

  10. Sorry BB! I checked and I didn’t see anything!

    Steve – Uhhhhh, you mean the polls for “registered” voters?

  11. angelasmith – Well-said!

    I would have felt just as sad and disgusted if people accused Bush voters in 2000 of being prejudiced against Jewish people. (Gore’s VP candidate, Joe Lieberman, was Jewish.)

  12. ugsome, that’s good. Those tshirts are hate speech.

  13. As to the necessity of a Loyal Opposition, I could not agree more. With McCain, I don’t see a problem in having a loyal opposition. But how can a loyal opposition to Obama work with the MSM cheerleading all the way and every statement against anything proposed by him getting labeled as racist?

    That could prove to be a disastrous problem.

  14. SOD – Told you.

    And of course, the Obamabot in our thread does nothing to address any of the issues raised by the post. All he does is try to convince us to stay home because Obama is going to win easily.

    They’re not too bright, are they?

  15. This year couldn’t get any weirder even if a flying saucer landed in Washington DC to pick up Dick Cheney and take him back to the Sith planet.

  16. Does anyone remember the name of the new sight that was created to watch for all sexism in the media regardless of party?

  17. myiq – Now THAT would make some sense!!! Can that please happen???

  18. Thank you for addressing this in all its ugliness. For a movement based on “Hope” Obamanation sure does hate alot!

  19. thanks madamab. I find it sad and *%$#$ that people would join in such a low political tactic.

  20. scoutt – You mean The New Agenda?

  21. CB

    Yep, all those Obama voters can just stay at home since they have clinched it. LOL

    I particularly hope they stay home in swing states like mine. It will make my job much easier.

  22. Steve,

    The election isn’t going to be held today. Sorry, you’ll just have to wait to get your shiny new hopey changey messiah.

  23. CWaltz – LOL!

    Yes, Obama will be carried into office on the wings of angels! No voting needs to happen. Obama will divine all of our motives and intentions through his Messiah-like powers, just as he did in Michigan!

  24. bostonboomer, Steve doesn’t want to wait! He wants it NOW!

  25. Great rant, madamab.

  26. ugsome

    How about a Confluence poll a la Barack Obama style? Who here is voting for McCain?

    Me! Me! Me! (I voted three times in honor of the caucuses Steve)

  27. That’s OK, madamab. I’ll put mine up a little later on.

  28. CWaltz – If I vote for Cynthia McKinney, does that mean I hate white people? And men?

    (thanks BB!)

  29. stateof disbelief

    Some people just can’t be reasoned with. It’s better to save your breath and move on to people who can be. Most reasonable people understand discrimination has never been limited to skin color.

  30. “They’re not too bright, are they?”

    I’m not sure what I did to deserve this.

    I just came across this site today. I am not a regular reader. I was confused by the statement in the post that the Democratic candidate should be winning easily but instead it looks like a nailbiter. I thought it appeared Obama was winning easily (at least for now) based on the data at fivethirtyeight.com (apparently a compilation of many polls). I may be wrong but I was just responding to something in the post that seemed inaccurate.

    I never even heard the term “Obamabot” before today. I am pretty sure I’ve never met you, madamab, so I question your basis for concluding either that I’m an Obama supporter or that I’m “not too bright.” I gather you encounter some hostile responses at this site, and I can see why.

  31. Who can you vote for to let people know you hate everyone?

  32. votermom, Cafepress has a page selling shirts emblazoned with the same hateful legend. I am going to contact them and ask why they allow it, and how their policy towards the Sarah Palin shirt might possibly differ from their policy towards an equivalent anti-Obama hate speech shirt.

    I suggest everyone here do the same. Pile on Cafepress and let them know it’s hate speech, pure and simple.

  33. Mawm, The Greens?

  34. Steve, we’ve been so badly abused by Obama supporter polling haka lately–basically, He’s gonna win so just give up already, you [insult here], so nerves are more than little frayed.

  35. Bye Bye concern troll steve, who has never heard the term Obamabot in his life.

  36. Madamb,

    Discrimination is strictly limited. Only Obama and his followers can be discriminated against. He “invented” discrimination like Al Gore “invented” the internet. Heehee.

    Some of his supporters are a regular bunch of stand up comedians. Too bad they think are making serious statements when they repeat their absurd remarks.

  37. Mawm – Yes, are the words “protest too much” ringing in your ears as well?

  38. According to one point of view, we are only permitted to cast our votes in a manner that will not prevent an Obama victory.

    That means we can vote for Teh Precious, or for a 3rd party candidate with no chance of winning, or we can leave that portion of our ballot blank.

    But the advocates of that point of view say it is NOT okay to vote for McCain.

    I strenuously disagree with that point of view.

  39. madamab – yep that’s it.
    wow, i feel absolutely terrible about what is happening. I had to o supporters in the car on the way to a memorial service spouting out the racist meme coming out of the media. then the other guy started reading that trite email about “what if obama finished last in his class at the naval academy…etc”.
    I just lost it and started yelling in the car what a slimey disgusting campaign obama ran and that he started all the racial shit…i went on and on.
    then just sat crying in the front seat. I don’t know what has happened to me. I feel disconnected from everything around me. it’s like major culture shock. how are you guys getting through this? is anyone is san francisco? I ‘d love to be able to talk about this with someone that feels similarly.

  40. If anyone wants to define me by my vote let them define me as a person who will not vote for Obama, a person who will not condone the sexism & hatred I’ve seen come out from his campaign, his supporters & the msm this year.If that equates to me being a “r@cist” in their illogical little brains — sobeit. I actually do not care what opinions morons have of me. I said this on an earlier post, but I’m saying it again:

    There are 3 possible outcomes of this election:
    A. Obama wins because a lot of D’s in “battlegroIf und states” agree with Donna that they “have no place else to go” and “hold their noses and vote for BO” when push comes to shove:
    B. Obama wins without our votes — hey, he said he didn’t need us to win; or
    C. McCain wins.

    Of those three scenarios A & B are completely unacceptable to me — we are either going to prove the DNC right that we have no place else to go or we are going to prove them right that they don’t need us. That is why, even though I don’t like McCain one bit and would have never voted R in any other circumstances, I, living in NC, am going to vote for McCain. Trust me, I consider this a great sacrifice on my part, but I do it gladly in order to save the Dem. Party. I meant what I said after the May 31 debacle at the RNC — I am not going to legitimize and condone what the DNC did during this primary — not the sexism, not the voting fraud, none of it. I am a person of full age & majority & I knew full well then that that would mean a McCain presidency for 4 years and I’m not backing down now because it might actually mean a McCain presidency for 4 years. I am convinced that a McCain presidency is the ONLY way to get our party back — if BO wins after all he has done the FDR style Dems will have no place in the DNC. My vote is for something greater then myself & isn’t designed to give me instant gratification — two concepts that I don’t think a lot of Obama supporters have a handle on. Threatening to call me a “r@cist” if I don’t vote for BO isn’t going to change my resolve — besides, didn’t Donna’s mama teach her that you can catch more flies with honey?

  41. Steve,

    If you have something useful to say about the issues discussed in the post, go ahead. If you aren’t aware that polls can change rather quickly, then you need to get a little more education about politics. If polls are what you want to talk about, give us some specifics as to why you think they won’t change.

  42. Mawm,

    It’s really good to see you. Is Gary OK? I miss him.

  43. There’s a Howard Stern radio piece out there where he sent a reporter into Harlem to interview people about who they were going to vote for. After the folks answered, “Obama”, he asked them how they felt about Obama being pro-life? and anti-stem cell research? How did they feel about Obama’s plan to stay in Iraq until we win? When they replied that they agreed with Obama on all those things, he asked them how they felt about his choice of Sarah Palin to be his VP. They all answered that they thought she’d be a fine VP to serve with Obama. There were MULTIPLE people who answered this way. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

  44. Someone needs to create a “Cafe Press thinks misogyny is cool” T shirt. That might get their attention.

  45. angie – Excellent comment!

    I am convinced that a McCain presidency is the ONLY way to get our party back — if BO wins after all he has done the FDR style Dems will have no place in the DNC. My vote is for something greater then myself & isn’t designed to give me instant gratification — two concepts that I don’t think a lot of Obama supporters have a handle on.

    So good it had to be said twice!

  46. BB, Gary is fine. We had to take the weekend off from all politics, although we did end up breaking the ban. We both needed to have a little bit of rest from it, because it’s making our blood pressure boil so badly. I’m sure everyone here knows what I’m talking about since the rest of you are vile, lynch mob racists yourselves.

  47. It’s the math has been replaced by it’s the polls.

    The math cry worked because the DNC is spineless, but the general is going to be won or lost by the voters – some of the same voters who ELECTED Hillary.

  48. samanthasmom it IS scary.

  49. CWaltz – I went to CafePress, and they have a CYA Content Disclaimer there.

    Content Disclaimer

    CafePress provides users complete e-commerce tools needed to create and sell a wide variety of products featuring their ideas, designs and art. All merchandise content is created by users of the CafePress Service and does not necessarily reflect the opinions and views of CafePress.com.

    Still, wouldn’t the “C” word be a little much, even for them?

  50. Uhhhh, present polling indicates Obama will win easily. What indicates it will be a nail biter? If the election were held today Obama would win by a greater margin than any election since Clinton in 96.

    Steve if you are indeed not just another Obamabot tr0ll then you are still rather rude don’t you think? You just found this blog and you swoop in and attempt to dazzle us with your wisdom.

    What indicates that it will be a nail-biter is that most of the polls are skewed, many are done by media which is determined to elect Obama. Gallop pollster say that they usually have 30-40% hangups but this election they are having 80%. Can accurate polling be done with an 80% hangup rate and 10% undecided?

    Better have some facts at hand when you decide to come to someone else’s place and pontificate.

  51. 11% of ‘non-hispanic’ blacks are NOT supporting BO.

    It’s the Hispanic vote which has moved to him since September 15 (12%) , plus 5% non-hispanic whites.


  52. I saw a comment somewhere that said that any Democrat who voted for McCain would be an outsider in the party.

    Did the stop using secret ballots and forget to tell me about it?

  53. Only in your dreams, Steve.

  54. MyIQ,

    No one gets to tell me how to vote. I really could care less if they call me names or threaten me. If a soldier can risk his life to secure my right to vote then I can risk being called a bunch of names by a bunch of nutballs who think they have the right to tell me how to vote. I will not be coerced into doing something I feel is not in the best interest of this country.

  55. myiq – They held the election already. Didn’t you know? Obama has already won!!!

    (sips more Kool-Aid)

  56. madamab

    Nothing wrong with contacting them but I wouldn’t hold my breath that they will remove it because of that disclaimer.

    That’s why I suggested the Cafe Press thinks misogyny is cool T shirt. It would be interesting to see if THAT got a response from them.

  57. The way I see it, it would seem that there are many Democrats that want Obama elected because they don’t want any accountability. Barney Frank will continue to put the institutions before us the people. The big people like Soros will continue to be the big VIPs and we are like the surfs or less to them, we only matter during election time.

    Just think about it; they had control of congress and DIDN’T try to pass Universal Health Care! When will we be a priority? How many times does Biden need to be elected to the senate? CHANGE, my foot.

    The reason they don’t want third parties in the debates is because they may actually point some of their doings. I think for far too long I looked the other way or maybe I was blinded by the mantra that we were the ‘progressives’ yet we were walking in place, but just lifting our legs.

  58. Joseph Cannon has a followup about the supposed “Whitey Tape.” Maybe you guys discussed it already. It sounds like the sources are pretty trustworthy. Maybe the tape does exist?

    From The Real Barack Obama:

    don tufts Says:
    October 12, 2008 at 9:39 pm
    this one way street where we get called racist has to freekin stop and the only way i know of is to expose michelle and the whitey tape.so i said this earlier and i mean this and possibly one or more of you guys can organize this.so here goes i have no confidence that mac will use the whitey tape as i think he might be too decent of a person and not want to unleash that kind of strife.im not a professional writer just a concerned hillary supporter that has 3 small children to support and i am very concerned about what a obama presidancy would mean to this country.so with this said and a big so sorry to larry here goes.larry and from time to time email each other and 2 days ago i had told him how much my small business here in phx was suffering since the crash started and i asked him if the tape was real.here is what larry replied to me [michael brooks from media matters was the primary source and sy hersh was the confirmation with a additional confirmation from a unamed cia buddy.i have tried to get this out without directly breaking a trust ,but with the crap going on in the media i beleive we as a community must force the issue.larry did not make any of this up he is what he has always been a honest broker of important information.so again larry im sorry but i had to do it.


  59. MYIQ

    Furthermore, do you really WANT to be part of a party that engages in these kinds of semantics and behaviors? I don’t. Personally, I’m good with being a “party outsider” if the party in question is involved in corrupt behavior, misogyny, and bully tactics. I don’t need to “belong” that badly.

  60. madamab, on October 13th, 2008 at 2:34 pm Said:

    myiq – They held the election already. Didn’t you know? Obama has already won!!!

    (sips more Kool-Aid)

    THAT IS WHAT MAKES ME SOOOO MAD. JUST LIKE IN THE PRIMARIES. I am surprised Pelosi hasn’t said if McCain doesn’t drop out she will settle it, just like she did with Hillary. I haven’t forgotten!

  61. myiq: No, but the Obamabots and the Chosen will be able to do Karnack-like things and will *know* who you did not vote for.

  62. myiq, remember Obama is the one, and he has supernatural powers somewhat akin to Santa Claus and his “list”.
    He sees you in the voting booth.
    He knows when you’ve marked R.
    He knows when you have voted Dem
    And when you’ve left it blank.

    You better watch out.
    You better not cry race-baiting.
    You better not shout “Vote Stealer”!

    I’m telling you why.
    Obama and his Chicago thugs are comin to town!

  63. Quoting myiq:

    “I saw a comment somewhere that said that any Democrat who voted for McCain would be an outsider in the party.”

    AWESOME! Where do I sign up?

    Actually, I’ve felt like an outsider since our caucus in January, where I was told that I was a progress-impeding, shrill, feminazi, b*tch (afterwards, not in the caucus itself).

    I still can’t believe I’m contemplating voting for a Republican. Surreal.

  64. Stern once again displays his genius– an evil genius, to be sure, but still genius.

  65. We need a local effort to get some competition for bad and worse. It’ll be uphill but with a grassroots effort we COULD make a difference. We could FORCE both parties to put us first. We’d need to start now with the intention of this being a long haul project though. Anybody have a state by state breakdown of party affiliation?

  66. THAT IS WHAT MAKES ME SOOOO MAD. JUST LIKE IN THE PRIMARIES. I am surprised Pelosi hasn’t said if McCain doesn’t drop out she will settle it, just like she did with Hillary. I haven’t forgotten!

    I’d love to see Pelosi get her lights punched out. But then all that mortician’s makeup would crack and break and we’d see she is like the lizard people on “V”, the old sc-fi teevee show.

  67. These Bots are laughable. I think the Eschatonians pick a different person every day to come over to my blog and snipe at me. Got a new one already. They are like the Hydra in Greek mythology.

  68. Thanks madamab — every once in a while I get something right! LOL
    Great post btw — although I know the bots will not think so — imo, that just proves how right you are.

  69. Fredster – easy does it. That type of violent imagery against women, even Nasty Nancy, makes me uncomfortable.

  70. myiq, haven’t you heard. All Dems who don’t vote for Obama get the scarlet letter “R” tattooed to their foreheads. I think the DNC Roolz Committed voted on that last week. Get with the program man! ;)

  71. The funny thing is: in Canada, the liberals use red and the conservatives use blue for their signage.

    Just shows how arbitrary these stupid distincts are.

  72. yes Fredster — don’t make me have to change my good opinion of you taking care of ya mama & dem!
    It will be enough for me to see Nancy crying a black river of mascara when BO loses.

  73. I am really annoyed at myself today.

    Every once in a while I get a strange urge to be “nice” to someone who doesn’t necessarily deserve it.

    So last night instead of listening to Captain Spaulding and having some unhinged fun I decided to act mature and civilized.

    And just like always, I find myself wondering why I even bothered. I rarely regret being bad, but I always regret being nice.

  74. How to identify other supporters in your area??

    If you are a Puma drive around during the day with you lights on, if you are on the dark side (ie BO supporter) drive around without lights during the night!

  75. myiq2xu, on October 13th, 2008 at 2:30 pm Said:
    I saw a comment somewhere that said that any Democrat who voted for McCain would be an outsider in the party.

    Many of us would prefer to be outside that venal, cutthroat, fraudulent group that took over the Democratic party. Republicans actually look less noxious by comparison. Is that the change the Dems were hoping for?

  76. Back in the ’50s and ’60s, Republicans would have rather been dead than red.

  77. “That type of violent imagery against women, even Nasty Nancy, makes me uncomfortable.” What you said, madamab.

    That has no place here, or anywhere else for that matter. I read the same thing about Sarah Palin being said on some of the cheeto spaces. Violence is wrong against any woman, period.

  78. AMEN & AMEN & AMEN!!!

    MadamaB, PUMAs is not mutually exclusive to Democrats, it’s to anyone who wants to hold their elected officials ACCOUNTABLE for defending Human rights, voter rights, women’s rights, civil rights among so many rights that have been violated in this 2008 election.

    RIGHT ON, Sister MB!

  79. Racism is evil when it is used by the powerful to deny an ethnic group access to civil rights or economic opportunity and either creates or continues a tradition of oppression. In a world where African Americans had equal opportunity and owned a share of the nation’s wealth equal to their percentage of the population, no one would be worried about racism because the fact of some person’s discomfort would be irrelevant. Racism is damaging in this nation because African Americans have been systematically denied theopportunity to exercise their civil rights and to accrue wealth as apeople and that is what leaves them vulnerable to racist inclinations of members of the majority If we lived in a world where African Americans had equal wealth, the fact that some white business owners didn’t want to hire or pay African Americans as much as white employees would be balanced by the African Americans who own businesses and prefer to work with people like themselves. That balance is what’s missing. White people as a group do not suffer from that imbalance, and nothing about electing Obama will create that imbalance. A very tiny percentage of almost entirely white people own some preposterous amount of the nation”s wealth. Obama will certainly drive some money into the African American community, but he will not be able to change the fundamental balance there.

    The fact of the matter is that there is nothing racist in even 100% of African Americans voting FOR Obama. The fact of the matter is that they may conclude that the simple fact of his race makes their support legitimate as they have never had a person of their color in the White House, and they are an economically deprived minority whose civil rights are violated far more frequently than anyone else’s in the US. There is tremendous symbolic value in electing an African American to the White House, and it is going to super-charge the African American community. I have no particular hope that he will be constructive for them as a president, but I do think his symbolic value will move the marker quite a bit down the board for them. That’s a good thing.

    There is no symbolic value to a white person electing a white person to office – it’s what we’ve always done. But just as voting for Clinton had tremendous symbolic value for women, so it is with Obama and African Americans. It isn’t racist because nothing about electing Obama makes it likely the white Americans will be deprived of civil rights or economic access on the basis of their race. Black people aren’t voting for Obama to deprive white people but to increase their opportunities to participate and that is totally legitimate.

    That doesn’t excuse the bigotry he, himself, displays and that he encourages in his volunteers. That bigotry is as morally deplorable as any other bigotry. What I see is that Democratic men refused to vote for a woman who was the superior candidate based on gender. That”s what transpired that is morally egregious in this race, and Obama willingly exploited that bigotry. He is a bigot and he has used his bigotry to increase his opportunity for election. further, there is a class issue at work, and he has exploited our party’s dislike of working class Americans to his advantage. II think he will move aggressively against working class Americans of all stripes. That is morally deplorable as well.

    He’s an odious man running an odious, bigoted campaign, but race is irrelevant to that odiousness.

    Speaking for myself only.

  80. Well I didn’t say it couldn’t be a ladies’ fight did I? lol!!

    Okay so maybe she can fall getting off the dais or something and the face cracks and we see the lizard face beneath!

    It will be enough for me to see Nancy crying a black river of mascara when BO loses.

    Not me; I want her removed as Speaker!

  81. Palin in VA. CNN stream crashed…It’s live on NBC12dotcom

  82. Samanthasmom:

    There’s a Howard Stern radio piece out there where he sent a reporter into Harlem to interview people about who they were going to vote for. After the folks answered, “Obama”, he asked them how they felt about Obama being pro-life? and anti-stem cell research? How did they feel about Obama’s plan to stay in Iraq until we win? When they replied that they agreed with Obama on all those things, he asked them how they felt about his choice of Sarah Palin to be his VP. They all answered that they thought she’d be a fine VP to serve with Obama. There were MULTIPLE people who answered this way. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

    Somebody gave me the linkhere

  83. myiq2xu at 2:30 pm:
    “I saw a comment somewhere that said that any Democrat who voted for McCain would be an outsider in the party.”

    That is naive horse poo in the extreme. I can’t figure out if those who write that really believe it , or it’s just a way to shut down any dissent of the ChosenOne.

  84. What’s happened to the touching newest thread titled “America”? I think that the author was bb, but now wonder if I’m seeing things…

    Nope, I KNOW that I did read it, it had to do with traveling by car, with listening to Jose Feliciano’s rendition of “America the Beautiful”, with being overcome and shedding tears with, what I gathered, was the same feeling of joy and sorrow that I seem to get lately when I see the a breathtaking landscape or the beautiful leaves turning; also when I see what’s happening with politics since I, too, have this almost constant feeling that I am about to cry.

    At any rate, the thread had to have been so new that there were no comments as yet, and when I tried to reopen it to reply with a huge “me too!” (and then go and listen quietly to the voices of Feliciano and another singer with renditions of the same song (via the links provided) the thread was gone.

    Everything OK?

  85. Thank you, sister SM!! :-) :-) :-)

    How’s the job search going? Sending you good vibes! I’m almost there with one job, but I’m so nervous that I won’t get it that I’m nauseous and unable to eat!

  86. For those of you in the NYC area, join POC PUMA and Democrats for McCain in Scranton, PA:

    NYC AREA DEMOCRATS CANVASSING IN SCRANTON, PA…we need 50 people each day to get FREE transportation from the McCain campaign
    Please email your commitment to pocpuma@aol.com

    * Sat Oct 18th
    * Sun Oct 19th

    * Sat Oct 25th
    * Sun Oct 26th

    * Sun Nov 1st
    * Sat Nov 2nd

  87. I wonder if Larry Johnson is going to respond to the fact that his sources have been revealed. Will anyone ask Sy Hersh about it?

  88. LJ probably won’t confirm his sources until he has permission.

  89. And for those of you in the Midwest:

    See schedule below. Contact Paulie Abeles at pabeles@RealDemocratsUSA.org

    Fri Oct 17th:
    * Columbus (meet-up to start and briefing)
    * Circleville (Pumpkin Festival)
    * Washington Court House
    * Wilmington
    * Lebanon (King’s Island Haunted Halloween Festival)
    ** Overnight in Lebanon (2 per room cost of $43 per person)

    Sat Oct 18th:
    * Hillsboro
    * Chillicothe (WWF wrestling expo)
    * Bainbridge (Festival of Leaves)
    * Waverly
    * Piketon
    * Portsmouth
    ** Overnight in Portsmouth (2 per room cost of $46 per person)

    Sun Oct 19th:
    * Jackson to
    * Chillicothe (WWF)
    * Circleville (last day Pumpkin Festival)
    ** Columbus (ending point and debriefing)

  90. Grangita,

    I posted at the same time as Madamab. I’ll put my post back up in a little bit. I can’t believe anyone had time to read it!

  91. CWaltz, some young women need to “belong” so badly they’ll walk around with shirts with the c-word on them. To those women I say, why not just tape a “Date Rape Me” sign to your back while you’re at it? It’s horrible and sad what the roofie generation has been reduced to.

  92. Regency,

    The guy who revealed them heard it from Larry. It’s out there now. Someone is going to start asking them.

  93. Off topic but:

    I went over to Alegre’s last night and someone spoke nicely about McCain, vis-a-vis his support of Israel and Obie saying he’d talk to the Iranian guy (I can’t type that name!) This poster said McCain basically had a better stance for Israel. Masslib kinda spanked her/him and told ’em to chill out.

    I posted that she was sounding like what she accused some here of doing to her. She replied today and said no, that she didn’t tell this person to f*ck off or call them race-baiting as was done here. I honestly don’t recall reading anyone saying that to masslib. Does anyone else recall that?

  94. Thanks, DV! PUMA POWER!!!!

  95. bostonboomer, I think the mainstream media will want to keep the story of the whitey tape under wraps. I agree with Regency that LJ won’t say anything until he has the okay to do so. This might force someone to come out with the tape if it actually exists or someone will just come forward and say that there was never a tape.

  96. I am so sick of being called a racist because I am voting for McCain. I’m not a racist nor is anyone in my family or my friends. We have a brain and we can reason who is best suited to be our next president. Abraham Lincoln, a republican president, ended slavery. I have been a straight democratic voter for 51 years along with my family and friends. Well no more. The democratic party and the news media and FACT CHECK all in collusion with Obama and Soros and the democratic party are trying to elect Obama. Well I say no. I’m willing to fight for my country. I hope most of the democratic party, Soros and Obama all go to jail along with most the media for subversion of government.

  97. Race baiting? I certainly don’t remember anyone saying that to masslib. I have been defending her. I guess I’ll have to back off on that now.

  98. “I saw a comment somewhere that said that any Democrat who voted for McCain would be an outsider in the party.”

    That’s good, because that makes us not responsible for what will become of the Party. We didn’t break it, they did.

  99. This post is for Stevie

    It breaks down gallup. Surprise, surprise Independants prefer McCain


  100. Fredster – Thanks for easing up on the violence, female-to-female or not! I’m rather sensitized to it now.

    Masslib deserved whatever she got here. She comes to a PUMA site and tries to get us to vote for Obama, then whines when we tell her we don’t want to hear it?


  101. DV,

    From what I’ve read, McCain has the tape if it exists. But if he won’t even let his supporters use BO’s middle name, he probably is going to keep on being nice instead if really going for it. It’s the same thing Hillary did. They are all afraid of being called racists. Meanwhile the American people will suffer because of it.

  102. Fredster, masslib is making shit up to make us look like the bad guy. No one ever accused her of race baiting and no one told her to fuck off. She is the one writing posts at AC about us and having her friends diss people and make false accusations. They accused myiq2xu of plagiarism and they called him an immature asshole. Alegre is believing everything masslib says even though she has taken everything here out of context. I can post what I said to her the night she is complaining about which was a polite request for her to stop convincing people here who they should vote for.

  103. I like being on the outside! ;)
    I mentioned this on one of the previous threads but it is most appropriate here:

    Seriously, on October 13th, 2008 at 5:39 am Said:
    “I still have, and will retain, much respect for John Lewis. I feel that he, like HRC, and the majority of black voters, is simply another victim of the Obama campaign’s dastardly machinations.”
    To some degree I agree with you Seriously, but John Lewis has gone over the line by attacking McCain – he could have endorsed Obama, even praised him but by attacking McCain he has diminished himself in my eyes. I never heard Hillary and Bill make condescending remarks about McCain.

    And to those who suggest that AAs will “riot” if Obama loses, that stance denigrates AAs. Who are these people who think they can make such sweeping remarks about a whole segment of American society? How dare they make such demeaning statements about the AA population? Those statements in and of themselves are r@cist and the biggest put down of our African American citizens in this campaign.

  104. JP49 – I deleted your comment because we don’t spread rumors here. There is no proof whatsoever that Obama is not an American citizen.

  105. I recall Angie putting a rhetorical smackdown on her but she didn’t say anything like that.

    I did notice that the version posted over there was substantially different from what I read in the threads here.

  106. Bostonboomer,

    i read it as well – nice one

  107. Fredster — masslib has, imo, lost it. Granted, I didn’t “know” her except from TL (where I used to hang out until Jeralyn gave us all the heave-ho) and she was always pro-Hillary then. However, she has totally re-written history on what went on at this site that day — I admit I told her to eff-off with her passive-aggressive “BO is still better then McCain” bs, but NO ONE told her she was r@ce-baiting.

  108. Anyway, I’m going to stop talking about masslib. She is irrelevant since I no longer visit Alegre’s Corner.

  109. ugsome, on October 13th, 2008 at 2:58 pm Said:

    CWaltz, some young women need to “belong” so badly they’ll walk around with shirts with the c-word on them. To those women I say, why not just tape a “Date Rape Me” sign to your back while you’re at it? It’s horrible and sad what the roofie generation has been reduced to.

    This is so heartbreakingly sad but true.

  110. Thanks, madamab.

    “The vote for President will likely be split very closely. Are we really planning to claim that about 50% of Americans are racists?”

    Yes. Yes, I think. They really are planning on doing that. It was the big gun, the October Surprise — not even so much focused on winning the election, really. More than that. I think it’s about silencing critics of a potential BO regime from the get-go. If they win, they want to walk into this with a get out of jail free card from square one. Anything that BO does “wrong” (as if they’ll even call anything he does wrong) will not be his fault. It will trace back to Bushes, Clintons, Republicans, Greens, angry old white women, bitter clingers, r@cists, you name it… every time.

    I would guess we would be constantly reminded (and I do mean *constantly*) of how special and fragile a BO presidency is. How attacking a BO presidency is attacking a moral advancement of the American people. How we must be vigilant not to fall back into our sinful ways. We would hear, “regardless of your political beliefs, let’s all stop for “awhile” and recognize what this represents.”

    You can picture it all. The BO campaign is nasty, dirty, smug and self-absorbed… subtle, it is not.

  111. I called masslib a race baiter when she said that Republicans didn’t want low income minorities to have mortgages.

  112. BB: I couldn’t recall it either. I really think that whole thing got blown out of proportion. Please see my comment over there.

    I read all the posts you all put up but sometimes when catching up I scan thru the replies. Perhaps something like that was in there but I honestly could not recall reading anything like that.

    Gotta go call the vet to check on the mini-doxie. She developed a licking granuloma on her foot and poor thing started itching like crazy and has some bare spots on her. They had to put her on thyroid meds and I’m wondering if the dosage was correct. Plus, I hope they had some other puppers there keeping her company over the weekend.

    Be back later.

  113. I still haven’t figured out how I supposedly plagiarized someone I never even heard of before.

  114. Fredster,

    I don’t go over there after they removed a thread where I annihalated a bunch of regulars on Sarah Palin, after they made some comments insinuating she couldn’t be a real “feminist.” I like Alegre but if she wants her site to be a propaganda site rather than reflect the real record then I’d just as soon not go there. I absolutely will tear anyone a new one who says that a group that participated in getting Domestic Violence law, Child support laws and is working on getting support for pregnant college students isn’t really a feminist group simply because I disagree with them on abortion. I will also tear a new one into anyone that makes snide comments about the only thing Sarah has in common is she wears a skirt. I guess that means they don’t believe in laws on domestic violence, child support or helping college students continue with their education if they choosse to have a child eh? That brand of “feminism” I could do without.

  115. and btw — let me clarify — I didn’t actually tell masslib to “eff off” — but that was definitely the sentiment of my posts to her, so if she wants to say I did that is ok. But as to the r@ce baiting thing, she is lying.

  116. I told her to F off too. So I am the guilty culprit on both accounts.

  117. myiq — I know you didn’t plagiarize anyone — that big ole brain of yours is all you.

  118. Just received a reply from Cafe Press:

    “Dear *******,

    Thank you for contacting CafePress.com!

    As you may know, CafePress.com provides an automated service to a rich and vibrant community of international users. Unfortunately, because our service is automated, sometimes content that is not consistent with our Content Usage Policy is posted on CafePress.com. We appreciate that you have brought this content to our attention and we will take appropriate action.

    Your ticket code is ***. Please use this code in any further communication.

    Best Regards,

    Margene H.
    Content Usage Associate
    (650) 655-3104 (O)
    (650) 240-0260 (F)

  119. madamab, since someone brought up citizenship, can I put in the comment I made over at Myiq’s blog? To wit:

    What actually bothers me more than citizenship issue is Obama’s close ties to Kenya. Obama has immediate family (grandmother, half-siblings) in Kenya and he’s campaigned for a Kenyan president. This bothers no one? Yet if it were not Kenya, but a different country, say Russia, or China, or Korea, or Pakistan, wouldn’t that bother people? Should a president have potentially divided national loyalties? Are we so dismissive of Kenya’s sovereignty that we can consider it completely subsumable to the USA?

    To put it into more context, that’s my opinion as an immigrant. I get why the law prohibits immigrants from running for Pres/VP, and it’s precisely because the POTUS should have undivided loyalty to the USA.

  120. CWaltz – You rock!

    I absolutely will tear anyone a new one who says that a group that participated in getting Domestic Violence law, Child support laws and is working on getting support for pregnant college students isn’t really a feminist group simply because I disagree with them on abortion.

  121. She also neglected to mention that Friday night was not the first time she picked fights over here.

    In fact, when she started in again I bailed out of here for a few hours cuz I didn’t want to get caught up in it.

  122. MadamaB, thanks for the good vibes & back at you! Eh, job search is dismal – but out of all the resumes/apps filled out, only 1 came back with “you don’t meet the requirements” auto-response.

    I still have my little ad account client that is small in terms of $, but at least it’s income.

    We’ll see how the week ends – I HOPE for the better!

    NERVES: keep blogging & get your mind off of it. If it is meant to be, it will happen. God never comes when you want, but when he does, he’s right on time.

  123. Mawm! LOL!!! Here I am thinking masslib has gone totally off the rails (well, she has — but not as much off the rails as I thought). Good for you — she was annoying the h3ll out of me — and she is still re-writing what actually happened to make us looks so “bad” and to pretend she was some innocent little lamb.

  124. LJSNAustin – Good job! Looks like we should content cafepress after all!

    votermom- I think you make a legitimate point. Good comment.

  125. McCain is already being called a racist. If he has it, if such a tape exists, he has to have better reasons for withholding it than he doesn’t wanna be called a racist.

  126. BB: I think McCain & Repubs are going to get nuclear AFTER the last debate which is this Wed.

    Just my premonition.

  127. I stand by the race-baiting comment because she was trying to say that Republicans were interested in blocking mortgages for minorities simply because they are minorities and not because they might be people who can’t afford the loan who happen to be minorities.

  128. New post up! Open thread.

  129. McCain is already being called a r*cist. If he has it, if such a tape exists, he has to have better reasons for withholding it than he doesn’t wanna be called a r*cist.

  130. thanks, SM – I’m a wreck today.

  131. BB, Mawm, Angie and DV:

    As I said I didn’t recall that.

    It bugs me to see this site being talked about badly when it has become a haven for all of us disillusioned with the current Dem party and leaders. No one can come here expecting to hear hosannas being song to the Chosen One. I do go over to Alegre’s site occasionally but maybe I should just skip that.

    Okay, calling vet now.

  132. CWaltz — Amen — I wish I had read that post. I’m a pro-choice feminist myself & a big problem I have with a lot of so-called feminists is that they forget that having a child is also a valid choice.

  133. Angie,

    Those aren’t women, they are girls. A real women may want approval but she isn’t going to sacrifice her principles to get it. A real woman doesn’t slam another woman if she disagrees with her(See:Hillary Clinton) she discusses the issues and works diligently where she can with what she can.

    What I see supporting Barack Obama reminds me of teenagers in high school wanting to be in the in crowd.

  134. I hadn’t gone to AC since the convention.

    From what I can see they are now Obama supporters who don’t like Obama.

    Why are all these people hating on us? And why does my name get mentioned more than anyone else?

    I feel like I really am being chased by angry sockpuppets..

  135. Well Regency, if the tape exists why would he want to release it now when Obama would have time to recover?

  136. I don’t remeber people calling her a racist. I remener people telling her to quit shilling Obama as a better choice then McCain. As I remember it she kept saying was coming to the point where she felt she had to vote Obama because she believed McCain would be a disaster. Alot of posters then reminded her what Obama stands for.

    It is kinda funny that her Obot programming seems to have started to kick in if she is calling people racist. Heh. Yeah, that’ll “convince” us. As if charges of racism are some “new” tactic.

  137. myiq — your name gets mentioned more then anyone else’s because they are JEALOUS of you.

  138. CWaltz — exactly — those poor girls in high school who had no self-esteem so they slept around, etc. to get the boys to “like” them. So sad.

  139. Hugs to myiq

    Self loathing people need to hate someone to make themselves feel better I guess.

    It’d be tough to rationalize voting for someone who has basically stepped all over you repeatedly.

  140. When Obama disagrees with another world leader, are his supporters going to call the latter racist? I wouldn’t be surprised. What about those Americans who don’t like something he does or says? Racists? To be sent to “re-education camps”? To those who respond “ridiculous,” I would ask them when it will be okay, when it will not be considered racist, to say something negative about Obama, to question his abilities or actions? Two years into his term? Second term?

    There was a time, not so long ago, when to question the Pope, or any of his subordinates, was heresy, subject to the offender being burned. There was s time when to criticize a monarch was sedition, punishable by hanging. Will criticizing Obama lead to immediate identification as a racist, social ostracism, or worse?

  141. Well, I just posted over at Alegre’s corner.

    It’ll be interesting to see what they have to say in response to my comment on core principles and why I will be voting McCain. (Hint: respect and fairness)

  142. Chased by angry sockpuppets–LOL. What an image.

  143. I’m not exactly the “warm-fuzzie” type.

    Rude, sarcastic, obnoxious and annoying are more my style.

    So why would total strangers insult me?

    Do they want me violate my parole again?

  144. votermom 3.11pm

    I am sure that a large number of people in Kenya will be worried if BO does become POTUS. It could be destabilizing for them.

    From the world factbook:

    . President MOI stepped down in December 2002 following fair and peaceful elections. Mwai KIBAKI, running as the candidate of the multiethnic, united opposition group, the National Rainbow Coalition (NARC), defeated KANU candidate Uhuru KENYATTA and assumed the presidency following a campaign centered on an anticorruption platform. KIBAKI’s NARC coalition splintered in 2005 over the constitutional review process. Government defectors joined with KANU to form a new opposition coalition, the Orange Democratic Movement, which defeated the government’s draft constitution in a popular referendum in November 2005. KIBAKI’s reelection in December 2007 brought charges of vote rigging from ODM candidate Raila ODINGA and unleashed two months of violence in which as many as 1,500 people died. UN-sponsored talks in late February produced a powersharing accord bringing ODINGA into the government in the restored position of prime minister./


  145. I have comment trapped in moderation. Can someone set it free?

  146. That bigotry is as morally deplorable as any other bigotry. What I see is that Democratic men refused to vote for a woman who was the superior candidate based on gender…


    I agree without you totally! The missed the chance to elect THE BEST CANDIDATE THAT JUST HAPPENED TO BE A WOMAN, HILLARY CLINTON.

  147. Laurie, has there been any other Pres candidate in history who’s campaigned for another country’s president?
    Is this common?

  148. I think 97% is probably a higher than normal percentage of the black vote going for a Democrat, but actually African Americans have historically, since 1936, voted Democratic in large numbers. Perhaps what is different is their enthusiasm. And I don’t blame them. Because I also have held my nose plenty, and my enthusiasm was growing by leaps and bounds when I thought the candidate could be Hillary. I didn’t choose her because of gender, and when I chose her, I never imagined I could vote any way besides Democrat, no matter who won the primary. How times change! I may never vote Democratic again, in any kind of straight ticket. A lot rides on this election, but it isn’t about race. There may be some people who won’t vote for Obama b/c he’s black and some people who won’t vote for McCain b/c he’s old or has had cancer. These are both bigoted assumptions, but plenty of Obots tell me about the melanoma. My partner had melanoma. She lives! And they don’t want to discriminate against her–only against McCain.

  149. I would like to think that if Hillary Clinton had pulled the same tactics as Obama, and if her supporters had acted like Obama’s supporters that I would have backed away from my support.

    I do blame AA who support Obama in the face of the divisiveness, racism, mysogny and downright hatefulness and threats of violence that has been displayed in this campaign.

    At some point the politics of identity has to give way when its consquences are a threat to us all.

  150. Just to add to the masslib argument-there’s something funny about it. At first I thought she was a middle aged female, but now I think she’s a young male and probably AA.

    Why do I think that? Because of the Sep 30 blog by masslib at Alegre’s (I like Alegre, I’ve heard her on the radio)
    Masslib talks of being excited about the election because “This financial disaster almost assures not just a Democratic Presidency but possibly much larger margins in the Senate and Congress. That’s exciting! ” Then lists the poss of UHC, and continues:

    Our outside agitators, like Al Gore, may really move this country toward a state of completely carbon neutral energy independence. Without a viable opposition on the Republican side, we may actually achieve that in a very short time. That’s a very good thing.

    I’m also hearing my Governor, Deval Patrick, may be an Obama pick for the Supreme Court. Though Patrick is not a great executor, he’s an extraordinary civil rights leader, and having him on the SC would be a God send. /

    I don’t know but calling Al Gore “our external agitator”, and giving high praise to Axelrod’s product Deval Patrick being picked for the Supreme Court, just seems very fishy to me.

    Does he/she consider him/herself to be an ‘internal’ agitator among Pumas????

  151. Laurie,

    Masslib has called in to RD’s radio show. She is definitely female. I don’t know how old she is.

  152. Maybe the media hasn’t thought this through enough but logic suggests that if the Obama campaign is using accusations of racism as a weapon before the election, it is going to use it everytime there is a real reason to criticize his presidency- *iff* he gets elected.

  153. Fantastic post, madamab!
    My votes define me in different ways…Sometimes – rarely – you get to vote for someone who represents your views (February 2004 – Wes Clark – who had dropped out but was still on the ballot). Sometimes, your vote defines a strategy you decide to follow: Kerry, 2004 – a vote against Bush. Kerry didn’t define me any more than many of the politicians I had to vote for defined me.
    And this time, – the least of two evils. The only way that will defone me: I am against another Bush. (I smelled the danger of the first one way before anyone else too as well)

  154. Masslib says:

    “I can no longer comfortably comment with my friends at the Confluence”

  155. WomanVoter: “That bigotry is as morally deplorable as any other bigotry. What I see is that Democratic men refused to vote for a woman who was the superior candidate based on gender…”

    Yep. And they smugly hid behind support of the black candidate so they could look oh so open-minded and progressive. One of my co-workers (a male Obama supporter) said more than once “Hillary is unelectable” which IMO is code for “I ain’t voting for no woman.”

  156. I hope I’m wrong about masslib but I almost feel like she is a DFA trained mole. I remember early on that NH and she did some campaigning for Hillary in New Hampshire and she seemed really sincere. But something weird is going on with masslib lately that feels too scripted.
    I don’t like it.

  157. oops. i think Lori said that and Woman Voter just quoted her. Sorry Lori!

  158. votermom-no I cannot remember any Prez candidate in history who’s campaigned for another country’s Prez.

    Not even TR, and he was at times hot-headed.

    Obama is very careful with ‘present’ votes on domestic policy, but totally rash abroad.

  159. gsm17: But Hillary would have more than made up for it by sucking moderate Republican women over to the D side. And Palin would have had a much tougher time going up against Hillary. Hillary has gravitas and experience. She’s already presidential. For Obama, it would definitely be on the job training.

  160. I’ve been surfing some winger blogs (like Ace of Spades) and they are stunned at the r@cism accusations coming from Obamanation.

    They thought we were exaggerating when we warned them a couple months ago.

  161. RD- I think we all think that-if BO gets into the WH -no-one will be able to criticise anything he does because that will be racist.

  162. Thank you for acknowledging my work in your essay.


  163. RD- I think we all think that-if BO gets into the WH -no-one will be able to criticise anything he does because that will be r@cist.

  164. the race relations.and the womens rights have been
    ruined.sad sad sad…

  165. RD:

    Masslib shoed up on Friday, started saying the same stuff that caused a problem a few days earlier, and as soon as someone reacted she ran home to post a diary claiming we mistreated her.

    My comment about her “harshing my mellow” that she cut and pasted in the comments of her post to show how mean I was to her was actually made three hours later on a different thread.

  166. She showed up, but I’m not sure about her shoes

  167. I went back to search the post to see what exactly I said to her that might be construed as mean, irrational, or r@cist. This was my post before I LOL at myiq saying she was harshing his mellow:

    DisenfranchisedVoter, on October 10th, 2008 at 11:31 pm Said:
    I’m late to the party.
    Masslib, I think you should just be honest with us and let us be. There is no point in convincing anyone here who they should vote for. All of our minds are made up regardless of whether we have decided to stay home, vote for McCain, or vote for a third party candidate.
    Masslib continues to say that s/he won’t vote for Obama but everything she says speaks to the contrary. Masslib, I don’t care who you vote for. It is your vote and you have every right to give it to Obama if you feel guilty about betraying the Democratic Party. You are welcome to post here. But please, please don’t expect to receive a warm reception when you constantly tell PUMAs here that they are bad, bad, bad for voting for McCain or that our votes won’t matter because Obama is surging in the polls and he will win anyway.
    I stopped going to Alegre’s Corner because I saw that you had to have a comeback for every poster there that had something negative to say about Obama or swore that they would not vote for Obama. You and your buddies are also angry at people for giving you low ratings for your comments. What do you expect? People will respect your decisions if you respect theirs. If you want to complain about Democrats voting for the evil Republican, you’ll find a welcoming crowd over at DKos, TPM, and TalkLeft.
    I’m not out to make you feel bad. I know that you have been a loyal Clinton supporter. But people here have already been demoralized for the LAST YEAR by Obamabots and the media. They don’t need more sh*t from other Clinton supporters.

  168. This was how masslib began her post:

    Apparently, it’s all in for McCain at the Confluence or you’re not welcome, you have drunk the kool-aid. My sin was saying Bill Clinton had talked me into voting straight Democratic ticket. My second sin was warning people that voting for McCain was a vote for a conservative Republican.

    She also said:

    “So I try to talk to my friends at the Confluence, and I’m treated like an a**hole. Apparently, you have to be completely aboard the “Straight Talk Express” to comment there at all.”

    I usually don’t badmouth my friends, but different strokes for different folks.

  169. Keisha:

    You must be very young.

  170. KeishaVixen, I will acknowledge you once you acknowledge the race baiting committed by your candidate during the primary. Until you are ready to admit that your candidate won the nomination using sexism, race baiting, caucus fraud, and disenfranchising MI and FL then I might actually read what you have to say. Bye.

  171. myiq – Yup, Keisha is gone. Later, little Obamabot!

  172. Regarding polls, I offer the following:

    Pollsters have no way to account for cell phone users.

    As someone else mentioned, there are a lot of people who just hang up.

    How are the questions in the poll worded (push polling).

    What is the weighting by party affiliation. If it is overweighted beyond a MOE, the results will be affected.

    Of the 18 million who voted for Hillary, how many will go for McCain, how many will support a third party candidate, how many will stay home, and how many will come home to the party.

    Same questions on the Republican side.

    The Bradley factor.

    There is a web site called wizbang that does a good job of deconstructing the polling data. Kepp scrolling for the results. Alternatively, go to stolenthunder.blogspot.com, and you can see how inaccurate the polling methodology has been.

    Lastly, Obama outpolled Clinton in a number of states, and she cleaned his clock. I hope the same thing happens with McCain. Remember, the AP claimed that Clinton had suspended her campaign when she hadn’t. Don’t always believe what you hear.

  173. RD, I completely agree. Which is why it would infuriate me when I would hear so-called “progressive” men hide behind that sorry excuse. The same co-worker now tells me that Obama, even though he’s inexperienced, is better prepared to fix the economy. Why? Because he’s “smarter” than McCain. Sigh. Yep. That’s the obot thought process. Obama supporters have kool-aid goggles.

  174. gxm17,

    In my humble view of the world it was clear that Hillary had a better grasp of the economy, a better grasp of business and she connected with the working person (I include myself here). During the debates she was judged by a higher marker, all he said at times is that he agreed. Obama never gave specifics and lets face it he hadn’t even been in the senate one term before he started to run.

    I was not voting for Hillary simply based on her gender. Gee, ya think that a woman that was considered one of the top US attorneys in the nation while in her thirties and participated in the impeachment team of Nixon could have gained some of the respect from the progressives within the party. Not to mention her life’s work of over thirty years, volunteering and challenging stereotypes along the way.

    Who else but such a brilliant mind/person such as Hillary could have with stood all that was thrown her way? I had never traveled to D.C. but made the trip when I saw they were not going to count her votes, votes of citizens and votes for a worthy candidate, the BEST CANDIDATE! What I saw take place that day broke my heart as well as many others in this country.

    I have defended Palin’s right to compete, because I saw what was done to Hillary and see what they have done to her as well. Do I think Hillary would be a better VP, darn right, without a second thought, but then again Democratic Party didn’t even allow for a VP ROLL CALL VOTE either. So, either way, the message was clear from the Democrats: In 2008 WOMEN NEEDN’T APPLY, EVEN THOSE THAT ARE QUALIFIED AND EARNED IT!

    So, that was my point, sorry if it got lost, as today I have had a sad day, in reflection of the whole darn mess that has become this election process.

  175. Woman Voter, I completely agree with you. You just say it a lot better than I do. :)

  176. Not so fast on forgiving Cafepress for the t-shirt. They have removed the “Palin is a c*nt” items but they have 1,870 Designs that use the word c*nt. There are no designs that use the word n*gger.

  177. Montage of the Media over the weekend distressing over McCain/Palin. ( I pulled this off Limbaughs site)

    MITCHELL: McCain crowds have been increasingly rowdy. Someone shouted, “Off with his head!” about Obama.

    ROBERTS: She’s inciting people to anger at these campaign events.

    GERGEN: These crowds and these ugly scenes that have occurred in these rallies…

    MATTHEWS: Appeal to the nuts. When you hear people yell, “Kill him, terrorist,” yelling out from the crowd.

    WITT: People gather shouting out comments about Barack Obama like, “Kill him! Terrorist! Treason!”

    KORNBLUTT: She’s kind of incited these crowds and I think that does get into dangerous territory.

    WRIGHT: A full bore attack on Obama’s character, suggesting he’s yellow, disloyal, and doesn’t belong.

    BLITZER: Increasingly angry crowd out there.

    CARVILLE: There’s some fear that one of these crowds could literally cause physical harm.

    BEGALA: The damage that that gentleman in Waukesha, Wisconsin, did to the McCain campaign when he stood up, his face contorted with rage…

    HEUVEL: Inciting hatred, division, fear.

  178. “In that case, how do we describe the 97% of African Americans who plan to vote for Barack Obama?”

    By the way, I don’t need anyone to describe/define me b/c I happen to be Black and voting for Obama. I define myself: I’m a woman, African American and Korean, an attorney, reproductive justice advocate, an anti-violence against women advocate/professional, a daughter, a sister, a friend, and a concerned & informed voter!

  179. From what I can see they are now Obama supporters who don’t like Obama.

    Bingo! That’s the impression I’ve gotten but couldn’t phrase it right.

    And this is what got to me over there:
    Apparently, it’s all in for McCain at the Confluence or you’re not welcome, you have drunk the kool-aid

    I’ve never seen anyone here say vote for McCain. As I wrote in my reply there , people here have said they’re either voting for McCain, or 3rd party or leaving the top of the ticket blank.

    I’ll say point blank I’m not voting for Obie and will vote for McCain. It’s my choice. I wan to try to stop this unqualified candidate from being elected and I have such disgust for the Democratic Party at this time.

    As I said before, I just really dislike someone not giving the whole story when writing something about this blog.

    BTW: waiting for vet to call me back on my pupper. Geez, I miss her when she’s at the vets. :-(

  180. They’re just not that into you, masslib.

    Or your half-truths. Or your lies about Confluence.

    But frankly, if Obama’s ahead 10 points and headed for a landslide, like you and yours brag about, I don’t see why you waste your time trashing any of the people at Riverdaughter’s place.

    You don’t need us, it seems.

    So, just move along masslib, and find new friends.

    Jeralynn seems your type. Go over there.

  181. I wonder if it had been a black candidate from a different part of the political spectrum (Powell, Rice), who the racists would be then.

  182. The question has been repeatedly asked, “Is America ready for an African-American president?”

    I would say now as I’ve said all along to people within earshot that the answer is “yes”. However, the person who was truly deserving of breaking that seal (whoever it may have been) would not have had to play the race card so shamelessly as Obama’s supporters have done.

    That in itself, I fear, will have ugly consequences in the years to come when the warm, fuzzy feeling of voting for an African-American wears off, and what is left is a population of non-black Obama supporters who are no longer willing to buy those cards in any circumstance. This entire process will effect to devalue the race card, and I am not entirely certain that that’s a good thing.

  183. luxenoir, on October 13th, 2008 at 5:41 pm Said:
    By the way, I don’t need anyone to describe/define me b/c I happen to be Black and voting for Obama. I define myself: I’m a woman, African American and Korean, an attorney, reproductive justice advocate, an anti-violence against women advocate/professional, a daughter, a sister, a friend, and a concerned & informed voter!

    Good for you. Name ONE thing Obama has actually accomplished. I mean, aside from stealing the nomination.

  184. Frankly, being in new orleans i have a lot of AA friends and I think the bradley effect is in full effect for the AA community … i think that you actually won’t see that 97% vote hold up after the actual votes are in …

    and I suppose that will get me mentioned as talking republican talking points again or called a racist

    but in the real world, where I just talk to my friends who ‘ve known a LONG time and my neighbors … i think 97% is the bradley effect … i don’t think every one wants to say in public they have their doubt to strangers they do not know

    guess we’ll seen in a few weeks

  185. oh, sheesh, i forget the @ again …. ack!!!!

  186. i think there’s a bradley effect in the polls for the AA community … I have way to many AA friends take me aside and say things to me because they know me and trust me

  187. […] blogger ‘madamab’ wrote a post for the Confluence on Monday in which she (assuming by the nickname its a ’she’) took […]

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