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Columbus Day a.k.a. Día de la Raza a.k.a. end of Native peoples in the Americas

Here we go again, another Columbus Day, another manufactured holiday.   A long time ago when I lived in Massachusetts, a well-intentioned Caucasian female high school friend wished me a “Happy Columbus Day.”  My response to her was that I don’t celebrate genocide, to which expanded into a detailed conversation and then she asked “so why do they celebrate it then?”   At the time, I didn’t know the answer to that question.  

(UPDATE:  I now have a reason to celebrate October 12, I am now the proud aunt of a baby boy born 20 minutes ago!)

I did realize that October is considered “Hispanic Heritage Month” for the last 40 years or so and she was kind enough to assume that this was something that I actually celebrated, being of Hispanic/Latino descent.  LBJ enacted a week to celebrate Hispanic/Latino Americans and Ronald Reagan expanded it to a month.  True, there are many important and significant holidays that are celebrated in some countries in Latin America that coincidentally fall on “Hispanic Heritage Month” but Columbus Day is considered the highlight of the entire period.  I never felt compelled to celebrate Columbus Day or feel a sense of pride because it commemorates an event that meant death and destruction for Native peoples across the Americas, as well as the beginning of the Atlantic Slave Trade.  The Spanish Wikipedia entry is far more detailed here, but well explained by Wikipedia English here:  

In A People’s History of the United States, American historian Howard Zinn discusses the cruelty Columbus inflicted upon Native Americans, which Zinn says was comparable to the genocidal acts of World War II. Zinn maintains Columbus was a religious fanatic with an obsession of eliminating non-Christians, by means of murder, conversion, or at the very least, enslavement. He claims that Columbus was in search of personal wealth and fame, and was willing to step over others or even kill them to achieve it, and that Columbus may have used more force than he admitted to his superiors. However, some assume that Columbus’ subordinates were more responsible for the vast majority of the carnage carried out. Columbus himself claimed that he warned his men against taking advantage of the natives, as he had planned to eventually convert them to Christianity. A Spanish priest who traveled to Hispaniola wrote that he was appalled to witness dehumanizing acts of cruelty being inflicted on the Indians, such as torture used to subjugate their leaders.[citation needed] Many of the natives ended up dying from starvation, disease, or simply being overworked.  [my note: Fray Bartolomé de Las Casas did speak out against the cruelty to native Taínos, but in that same note, he recommended bringing African slaves, or as they were known as “ladinos” from the Canary Islands to replace the dwindling numbers of Taíno tribespeople, hence the beginning of the slave trade from Africa-Europe to the Americas]. 

Opposition to the holiday cites this cruelty committed by those under Columbus’ leadership and that of many of the following European colonists. Columbus directly brought about the demise of many Taino (Arawak) Indians on the island of Hispaniola,[citation needed] and the arrival of the Europeans indirectly caused the decline in population of many indigenous peoples by introducing diseases previously unknown in the New World. An estimated 85% of the Native American population was wiped out within 150 years of Columbus’ arrival in America, due largely to diseases such as smallpox that spread among Native populations.[citation needed] Additionally, ensuing war and the appropriation of land and material wealth by European colonists also contributed to the decline of the indigenous populations in the Americas.[9]

In the summer of 1990, 350 Native Americans, representatives from all over the hemisphere, met in Quito, Ecuador, at the first Intercontinental Gathering of Indigenous People in the Americas, to mobilize against the quincentennial celebration of Columbus Day. The following summer, in Davis, California, more than a hundred Native Americans gathered for a follow-up meeting to the Quito conference. They declared October 12, 1992, International Day of Solidarity with Indigenous People. The largest ecumenical body in the United States, the National Council of Churches, called on Christians to refrain from celebrating the Columbus quincentennial, saying, “What represented newness of freedom, hope, and opportunity for some was the occasion for oppression, degradation and genocide for others.”[10] [my note: That last quote struck a nerve in me, especially with the way the 2008 elections have played out.]  

Celebrating Columbus Day is like celebrating the “Wounded Knee Massacre” or some other frightfully macabre killing with parades & events all in the name of gold and justified by a perverse manipulation of Christianity.   What’s worse is that Hispanic/Latinos buy into it here in the USA, since the selling point is if it weren’t for Columbus, we wouldn’t be this great Spaniard/African/Indian DNA and cultural cocktail.  Yeah, but did 200 million have to die as a result of it?  This should be a day of solemn remembrance, perhaps of mourning, not some damn parade for some guy who stole gold and enslaved people because  Jesus told him to do it.

115 Responses

  1. Amazing the excuses people throughout history have made for doing horrible things to people. “Jesus made him do it”. I feel like Obama is the Messiah of our times and his followers will do and say anything for him even if it means destroying the lives and careers of good people, calling people r*acists, and threatening people like we saw in the caucuses. It’s sad to see history repeat itself in so many different ways.

  2. great post sm. In spain today is called “dia de la hispanidad”….Latin American history is marked with contradictions, including the urge to celebrate/mourn the arrival of europeans to the new world. We were discussing this recently and if you haven’t, I suggest reading Octavio Paz “El laberinto de la soledad” or “the laybrinth of solitude”. He very beautifully explores latin identity concentrating on the intersection of the european and the indigenous. His focus is on mexico, but I think anyone of latino origin would find it enlightening.

  3. well, anyone actually, no matter what their origin 🙂

  4. Gary, I’ve read that book by Octavio and it’s true – there is this false sense of pride.

    Sure, I can certainly relate to Spanish customs & foods, as we’ve inherited many traditons but why should I feel pride over mass killings that spanned 450 years?

  5. sm…that is why I think he suggests there is a pronounced melancholy in latin culture. It is the eternal struggle to integrate the two cultures that are what the present day…at least in his book…mexican person is. and he also suggests why they have a sense of inferiority, covered up by false bravado, which some might find controversial.

  6. it is an enigmatic existence…

  7. there’s also an interesting book called “the Hummingbird and the Hawk” which explores the battle between christianity and indigenous religion in the valley of mexico. It makes it very clear that the battle of gods was the real conquest going on when the spanish arrived, and that it was the defeat of the aztec gods that ultimately led to their captulation. (We’re talking about symbology, not actual religion)This is NOT appreciated by mexicans in general, but a very interesting read nonetheless.

  8. Full disclosure– as a lover of Catholic Latino traditions I have had passionate agreements and disagreements with La Raza fans.

    But approaching that celebrated slogan purely as a poet, I found it difficult to render with the same meaning and cadence.

    ¡La Raza, unida, jamás será vencida!

    The closest I could come up with was…

    This people
    United
    Shall have its wrongs all righted.

    Close enough?

  9. “the people as one, never overcome”….how’s that?

  10. How are those college kids that voted for Obama

    As 250 major donors ate beet salad and mahi-mahi under a huge tent, Obama seemed to look ahead to his first term as president.

    “We’re going to have to make some priorities, we’re going to have to cut some things out,” he said, referring to expensive goals such as improving health care, schools and college affordability.

    “I’m going to be in some fights with my own Democratic Party in getting some of that done,” he said.

    I wonder what he will be fighting for then

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/11/obama-notes-mccains-effor_n_133855.html

  11. the second part of your traslation isn’t really what it means.

  12. Gary, it certainly is sad – I can appreciate Spain’s culture, and yes, we share cultural ties, but I feel zero attachment to it. How can I claim “pride” in “la madre patria” as many Latinos refer to Spain? I can’t.

    From what I know, my paternal great grandfather was from Andalucia. But so what? What good does that do me? How can I, a dark-skinned mulatto, claim anything sense of pride from Spain knowing the historical genocide that took place both in Spain and in the Americas to “purificar la raza” through the Inquisition? Not to mention the colonial caste system very much in place today despite the advances we’ve made.

    Like George Carlin said, it’s all bullshit and it’s bad for you.

  13. JOhninCA: It means “La Raza, united shall never be defeated.”

  14. SM…agreed..also the history of the carribean is very different than that of mexico. Many of the indigenous populations faced particularly gruesome fates at the hands of the spanish. Bertolomeo de las casas described the destruction of their culture in Historia de las indias.

  15. Gary: Bartolomé also suggested “hey, why dontcha bring some of those black slaves in the Canary Islands to replace the Indians instead? They seem a lot stronger than these poor Indians.”

    Again, it’s a damned scenario.

  16. “As 250 major donors ate beet salad and mahi-mahi under a huge tent, Obama seemed to look ahead to his first term as president.

    “We’re going to have to make some priorities, we’re going to have to cut some things out,” he said, referring to expensive goals such as improving health care, schools and college affordability.”

    ———

    Hm, more of those pesky… oh, what does BO call them again? oh, that’s right, “entitlement programs.” More of those pesky “entitlement programs” again, like health care and social security and education.

    I’m guessing that certain “expensive goals” would fare just fine, however. Such as endless war against shadowy enemies to keep us all in line. And bail-outs for Wall Street. And goodies for K Street. And so on.

  17. Gary: Also, many of the Taínos in Hispañola fled to the mountains in the Northern region and united forces with escaped slaves to fight the Spaniards, who became the original “Cimarrones”

    If you ever have the chance, please go to http://www.Kacike.org which has great research concerning the Afro-Taíno-Spanaird post-Columbian times.

  18. alice, on October 12th, 2008 at 3:32 pm Said: Edit Comment
    “As 250 major donors ate beet salad and mahi-mahi under a huge tent, Obama seemed to look ahead to his first term as president.

    “We’re going to have to make some priorities, we’re going to have to cut some things out,” he said, referring to expensive goals such as improving health care, schools and college affordability.”

    ———

    Yeah, but PLEASE don’t cut the mahi-mahi.

  19. “Yeah, but PLEASE don’t cut the mahi-mahi.”

    ACK! Spit take and ROTFL.

  20. sm, yeah well, he was a 17th century man. I think he is important because otherwise those atrocities may have gone undocumented. I was not making a judgement call on him personally.

  21. Has anyone figured out the riddle at Cannonfire yet?

  22. Gary – I understand you completely! But I wanted to show how Bartolomé’s account to “save” a “dying” people effectively started the Atlantic Slave trade.

  23. “Yeah, but PLEASE don’t cut the mahi-mahi.”

    LOL. Yep, no kidding!

  24. Disenfranchised: Dan Rather or Geraldo Rivera?

  25. sm77: I don’t have a clue but I’m guessing the person is a conservative so possibly Geraldo Rivera but I didn’t even think of him. I wouldn’t be surprised if the person works for FOX.

  26. SM, interesting, I never thought of it that way. I just assumed that the slave trade would have become what it was anyway. Your point is very well taken though. De las casas was of the midset that the carrib’s were “noble savages” which of course didn’t see them in any way as equal to europeans, or as they would think of themselves, “christians”. His view that black africans were somehow inferior to that status shows how deeply ingrained these racial categorizations were ingrained. I think this goes back even further to the Spanish reconquest when anyone with less than pure christian blood (ie no muslim or jewish blood) determined social status in Spain itself.

  27. Make no mistake, the genocide continues. Whether it is the destruction of tribal lands from the extraction of uranium, the push to bury nuclear waste on tribal lands, or the deforestation of the world’s rainforests, First Nations continue to wither.

    Here’s a suggestion for commemorating Columbus Day, Christmas, Chanukah, New Years, Solstice, July 4th, Memorial Day, your birthday…go to this site

    http://www.friendsofpineridgereservation.org/

    Click on “PRR Organizations” There you will find a variety of programs that need donations of supplies. Click on each one for a list of items. Health clinics need medical supplies, kids need school supplies, it goes on and on. Browse this site and see where you’d like to help. Pine Ridge is the poorest county in America and can use all the help in can get.

    One more note. The next time you see a picture or go to Mt. Rushmore think about this: The Black Hills of South Dakota are the Lakota’s holiest place. It is their Jerusalem, their Mecca. The US government promised it would be theirs in perpetuity. An expedition led by George Custer in 1874 found gold there. I think you can guess the rest. Since then it was opened up for uranium mining and on and on.

    How better to then piss on the people you slaughtered, and from whom you stole the land, than carving the heads of four American Presidents into it?

  28. “Has anyone figured out the riddle at Cannonfire yet?”

    Nope. I’m guessing Dan Rather (the Bush letter) or maybe Mike Wallace (the Hughes hoax).

    All this secrecy drives me crazy. It’s not a bombshell until you actually have INFO to share.

  29. Disenfranchised, I thought either Dan or Geraldo since both of them had big stories which eventually led to be “bogus.”

  30. Hillary and Bill just lied and blamed this crisis on Bush.

    She is quickly losing favor with me.

    CAROL HAKA 👿 on the CLINTONS!

  31. GXM, what about Geraldo & the Al Capone hoax? That’s what made me think of him.

  32. sm77, yep, we should definitely add Geraldo to the list.

  33. Gary, in 15th-16th century Spain, “Christian’ blood meant “white.” Andalucia was more brown than it’s Northern counterpart because it was more Jewish, more Gitano and more Muslim than the “Reyes Catolicos” wanted it to be at that time of the Reconquista.

    SHtuey, thank you for the link!

  34. Carol: Don’t hate Hillary, she’s developed Stockholm Syndrome.

  35. Many of us have Native American Ancestors — and as far as I know there is no celebration or whole month set aside to acknowledge the gifts of Native Americans to the world.

    Many of the food that we take for granted were first domesticated by Native Americans — Pumpkins, Corn, Potatoes — for example.

    The “New World” was fully populated when “discovered” by Columbus and his band of thieves and in a very short time the population of Native Americans dropped to below a million — due to many causes — one of which was deliberate genocide.

    At one time in our history most who were part Indian — hid that fact. It was a matter of survival — just read some of the 19th and early 20th century newspapers and the racism toward Indians can easily be found.

    It has been easy for me to return to being an Independent — because I never need feel entirely comfortable to be in the Democrat party — the party of Andrew Jackson. His name is forever linked with the Trail of Tears — when Indians were forced to leave behind everything and move to the “Indian Territory”. Many Indians didn’t survive this forced march.

    Thank you for bring up Columbus Day — allowing me to make my annual rant about the continued institutionalized racism toward Native Americans.

  36. Carol, on October 12th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Hillary has been blaming it on Bush since it started. Bush is not innocent

  37. Carol, thanks for the link. That was priceless!

  38. Hillary is on Fox. Biden is bashing Sarah Palin. Hillary does not look happy.

  39. Just go to any Reservation and you will se just how my people have fared since that ship docked here those many many years ago.

    You have not seen poverty in this country like the poverty that is the way of life for my “Native” brothers and Sisters.

    Please remember them when you celebrate our “Day Of Mourning!” ( Columbus Day )

  40. Why blame Columbus for the sins of the stupid who came later to commit genocide? That was never Columbus the man’s intentions. Somehow we should be grateful for his undaunting spirit. Or shall we be like MO – bitter and mean and not proud of America? Some of you guys are starting to sound like Ayers.

  41. Hillary & Bill is on CNN at a rally with Biden. Of course Biden went on and on about how much he loves Hillary. Also, that Hillary will be handing the pen to the next president to sign UHC into law.

  42. It was on Ballot Bowl and when they come back they will show President Clinton’s remarks & McCain & Palin.

  43. Hillary will be handing the pen to the next president to sign UHC into law.

    Oh, how nice of them to let her “hand the pen to the president,” like a good little secretary…but NOT as the president. Leave that up to the men, deary. Thanks for your years of hard work making this happen, but Barack will take the credit and get all the glory. You understand, right dear?

  44. I’m back for a little bit as my son is here from school for a few days and we want to enjoy the little time we have until X-mas.

    Referring to the earlier posts about Columbus Day…

    If we step back and look at the history of the world until now, it has been one wave of enslavement and/or genocide after the other. No continent is absolved. It has happened in Europe, in Near Asia (turkey etc.), Asia, the Middle East, Africa, the Americas; nearly every nation or people has committed those crimes at one time or another. Will it ever stop? Will we ever learn? While we discuss the genocide of Native Americans (which I believe has been ignored) genocide is currently occuring in Africa and elsewhere.

    Years ago I wrote a thesis on moral relativism and relative ethics and questioned whether the human animal wears his/her ethics like the layers on an onion, and whether beneath them he/she still allows the basic instincts of power and dominance to govern their actions.

    I considered Yugoslavia to be a civilized, modern nation, read: one that had learned the lessons of the holocaust. Because I speak a number of languages and was also familiar with Islam and well as Catholicism, and orthodoxy – and the prevailing mores of the society, I was asked to work with children and women rape victims of the Bosnian war.I had previously watched the Yugoslav/ Serbian army turn and shoot into a peacefull demonstration while watching the news. We were shocked. It took a courageous reporter hammering away at all the German newoutlets to get them to show footage of the genocidal acts that followed. I thought we knew what was going on, that it could not be worse. But it was much worse than I ever imagined. I could not believe the things I was hearing. And even after so many years, I cannot bring myself to repeat them here. We just have to be vigilant-and keep trying to not allow these to happen again and work towards preveting those going on right now.

    I believe November is National American Indian month. However in all the years my kids went to school I never saw them learn much about, celebrate much of the varied and brilliant native american cultures. Instead we sat down together to learn and talk about these including the detailed, structured and fair goverments some of the tribes had-specifically the Iroquois: “…The U.S. Government acknowledged the influence of the Iroquois Constitution on the U.S. Framers.The Smithsonian Institution also noted the similarities between the two documents, as well as the differences. One significant difference noted was the inclusion of women in the Iroquois Constitution, one group among many that the framers of the U.S. Constitution did not include.”

    Interesting they, who were not condiered equals were far more progressive than the founding fathers.

    I think that a lot more needs to be done to educate Americans about native Americans, the suffering, their near-destruction, and their great contributions.

  45. Northwest Rain: Exactly & true! It’s funny because many of the Taíno words for the things you described are still used:

    Huracán – Hurricane, means great monster of the sea
    Auyama (used in DR) – Pumpkin/Calabaza
    Barbacoa – Barbeque
    Hamaca – Hammock
    Batata – potato
    Maíz – maize, corn
    Casave/Yuca – Cassave/Yucca

    Taínos come from the Guaraní tribes from South America which migrated tot he Caribbean islands. You’ll find many similarties between them. For more info, this is a useful link, the Taino Dictionary:

    http://www.taino-tribe.org/tedict.html

  46. Folks, Hillary has to do what she has to do to save her career and possibly run for president again. I do not blame her for campaigning for Obama or blaming the Republicans for anything. She is still a member of the corrupt Democratic Party. She is doing what is required of her. People here who are angry at Hillary need to stop. Does anyone here really think that Hillary and Bill like Obama or are out there putting on a cheery face by choice? Hillary is not one of us. She is a politician and she isn’t free to leave the Democratic Party or lash out at Obama without destroying the Clinton legacy.

  47. The UHC?? What UHC???

    Obama’s curren proposal is far from a UHC and they (Obama/Biden) know very well that it is an empty promise considering our economy so why are they continuing to promise this to us??

  48. FIF, exactly! They are in PA promising everything to Hillary’s supporters to get the vote.

  49. I just saw the interview from yesterday with Palin on CNN. Did that reporter say that voters in Johnstown that support her said they were not going to come out and vote (because they think it’s over)?

  50. Biden said health care. I assumed UHC or else why would Hillary be in the forefront on this. She has been advocating UHC. You should hear Biden going on and on about his love for her & how she has always fought for people. How convenient now we hear it. Where was that in Primary?

  51. sofia: they are all shameless panderers who will use whatever and whomever they need to to get the votes. I’m going to move into a cave after this election.

  52. FIF, yes that’s what the reporter said so Palin was making the case that people should go out and vote. The Dems are at it again like in the Primary, you know, “Obama already won so no need to go to the polls”

  53. Ripley, on October 12th, 2008 at 4:13 pm Said: Edit Comment
    Why blame Columbus for the sins of the stupid who came later to commit genocide? That was never Columbus the man’s intentions. Somehow we should be grateful for his undaunting spirit. Or shall we be like MO – bitter and mean and not proud of America? Some of you guys are starting to sound like Ayers.

    When Columbus landed on Hispaniola and built his “La Navidad” fort, he ordered his sailors to take as much gold as possible by any means necessary.

    At first, the Taínos were welcoming to the Spaniards but once they saw how the Spanairds were only intrested in sacking their gold (and stealing their wives), they killed them all. That was the first battle between Europeans and Native peoples.

    And please don’t compare me to Ayers. I can protest peacefully the misjudged celebration of massacre after massacre.

  54. There is not going to be any UHC. kerry said it was a non starter. Obama recently told his rich friends that he is going to have to cut somethings out in his first term i.e Healthcare

  55. DisenfranchisedVoter, on October 12th, 2008 at 4:20 pm Said:
    Folks, Hillary has to do what she has to do to save her career and possibly run for president again. I do not blame her for campaigning for Obama or blaming the Republicans for anything. She is still a member of the corrupt Democratic Party. She is doing what is required of her. People here who are angry at Hillary need to stop. Does anyone here really think that Hillary and Bill like Obama or are out there putting on a cheery face by choice? Hillary is not one of us. She is a politician and she isn’t free to leave the Democratic Party or lash out at Obama without destroying the Clinton legacy.

    THANK YOU!!!! People need to cool their jets.

  56. sofia: but it sounds like their voter suppression efforts are having an effect. You’d think that would motivate people to vote MORE, rather than stay home.

  57. The Dems have to face reality – they voted for the war, they voted to fund the wars, they refused to regulate the financial institutions and they did not heed or support McCain’s bill to stop and save us.

    Don’t see too much that they either didn’t instigate or support!

    CAROL HAKA 👿

  58. fif, on October 12th, 2008 at 4:27 pm Said:
    sofia: they are all shameless panderers who will use whatever and whomever they need to to get the votes. I’m going to move into a cave after this election.

    Really? I’m moving to Canada.

  59. And,

    the Dems just tried to give ACORN another $140,000,000,000 with the Republican’s ready to start a blood bath if they tried.

    CAROL HAKA 👿

  60. Bill and Hillary can generically campaign and they know nothing will be done for UHC with BO.

  61. I understand the frustration people have with Hillary & Bill’s support for BO–I also understad why they are doing it. Still, wouldn’t it be wonderful if someone refused to support this lying fraud on principle? I mean, I saw Gerry Ferraro defending him on FOX. He blatantly smeared her as a rac*st, and now she is promoting him? They are contributing to the corruption in the system by ignoring the lies and hypocrisy. I’d like to see someone go all out.

    Ugh…Biden on. I can’t listen to him–he is profoundly boring.

  62. Anyone who believes Obama will provide this country with UHC if he becomes president is kidding themselves. First, the economy is awful and fixing this mess will be the first priority for either McCain or Obama. Second, Obama was never an advocate of Hillary’s plan. The guy doesn’t stand for anything and I expect that his one and only term as president if he wins will just be a platform for him to give stupid ass speeches without doing anything. If things actually get done it will be because Hillary will be behind the scenes doing the grunt work like women have always done since the beginning of time. We’re looking at a rough 4 years ahead. Brace yourselves.

  63. Isis: no, not literally, just figuratively. I completely ignored Bush for 8 years. I knew who he was from Day One, and considered him illegitimate and not my president. I feel the same way this year. I will not acknowledge BO if he wins. He means nothing to me. He is a crook and a liar. Nothing will change that.

    My fantasy is a hut in Fiji. Just walk around in a sarong, eating mangoes and beating on drums like Marlon Brando did when he got fed up with the US. Blissfully media free zone.

  64. Obama has his International Fund ready and waiting to implement. F*ck Health Care!

    I have Health Care, Congress has Health Care, so you little people without any, F*ck You, you lazy worthless ………………………………..

    HAKA on all of their Heads 👿

  65. fif – If we all join you in Fiji – will the island sink?????

  66. “SofiaNY”
    I heard the same thing & I got sick!
    Why didn’t he endorse her when he dropped out. And all that going on about “Abuse of Power” & how Hillary doesn’t.
    Well, “LOOK IN THE MIRROR Biden”!
    1st – What about your “AGofDE son” & getting involved in
    arresting someone talking against BO in DC?
    2nd-Your running mate’s wife’s 160% pay raise?
    Too little
    Too late
    Biden
    To think during the primaries you were my 2nd choice.
    Ugh……………..!

  67. Carol: no, PUMAs are light on their feet.

  68. World Bank to protect Poor Vulnerable Countries

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,436585,00.html

  69. fif, on October 12th, 2008 at 4:36 pm Said:
    Isis: no, not literally, just figuratively. I completely ignored Bush for 8 years. I knew who he was from Day One, and considered him illegitimate and not my president. I feel the same way this year. I will not acknowledge BO if he wins. He means nothing to me. He is a crook and a liar. Nothing will change that.
    My fantasy is a hut in Fiji. Just walk around in a sarong, eating mangoes and beating on drums like Marlon Brando did when he got fed up with the US. Blissfully media free zone.

    You know, I think I will plan a trip to India or the holy land if he wins. I will need to get away, and going someplace beautiful or mystical will give me peace until I go home.

  70. Carol, on October 12th, 2008 at 4:32 pm Said:
    Bill and Hillary can generically campaign and they know nothing will be done for UHC with BO.

    Wasn’t yesterday their anniversary? I hope they had a nice time.

  71. BO will not win. The Polls are over polling AA, new registrants, and Democrats.

    They are trying to once again create an illusion of victory.

  72. UPDATE: I now have a reason to celebrate October 12, I am now the proud aunt of a baby boy born 20 minutes ago!

  73. Yes, Bill said Hillary gave him a present of being able to see most of the football games yesterday.

    He’s happy because he will not be losing his legacy and Hillary will win in 2012.

    Don’t make me call a Haka on you again Clintons! I love ya, but I will Haka you! 👿

  74. Ii guess I’ll just have to keep my current health care plan.

    It’s called “Don’t get sick!”

  75. sm77 – Congratulations! Does he look like a Hillary and Palin supporter?

  76. I am in no way “Bitter! Far from it.
    But, I do Blame Columbus for the “CRIMES” he DID commit.

    Let us not forget what he did to the indigenous population of the Caribbean Islands for their gold! No matter how some try to cover that up, you can’t!

    But…..

    Columbus was not the only one to commit Genocide on this Hemisphere.

    Cortez did it to the Azteca and the other “Tribes” of What we now call Mexico.

    The Spanish Conquistadors and their “Fanatical” priests committed many atrocities against the Inca. Remember them?

    And what of the United States?

    Where to begin.

    Jackson, Lincoln, Washington, Tecumseh Sherman, The United States Cavalry etc…etc…etc!

    The British have blood on their hands as do the French.

    I will not go into ALL of the atrocities committed against my people at the hands of not only the Government but also by “Scalp Hunters” and so-called “:Farmers”. Why? Because the list is ENORMOUS!

    The Mexican government hunted my Apache ancestors down like dogs. Men Women and children all were “Murdered” because we were seen as less than human. Their “Scalps” brought a pretty penny in those days! Many “Americans” were guilty of this as well.

    The list is LONG! The crimes Horrendous! But the people that committed those crimes are long gone and NOTHING can ever undo these atrocities!

    But Bitter?

    No! I am not Bitter! I do not ask this government for “Restitution. I do not hold anyone alive today for the sins of the past. I do not ask that anyone treat me any different and I do not want their pity!

    My Grandfather, My Father, Myself and my two brothers. My 6 nephews, and many cousins ALL served this country in uniform. We are PROUD to be American and we ask nothing in return.

    We as a nation, never have come to terms with that “Dirty” little piece of history. And guess what?…….We are not asking for any!

    No….We are not bitter. We leave that to others. Life is to precious and our time on “Mother Earth” . Why poison our souls with hate? No…..I will leave that to others as I cherish life to much.

    Sorry…for the rant.

  77. myiq – what’s the deductible on that??????

  78. Carol: LOL!!!! If he shares my DNA, he HAS TO BE.

  79. Guys I know I am suppose to get over the Primary. I thought Obama cheated in the Primary but I could not figure out how he would risk it without a backlash. Then truth about ACORN was discovered. This is how Obama won the caucuses…Good ground game means bus-ing inelegible people to vote in these areas. This is disgusting.

    I am AA and I want McCain to beat him real good in the GE. I looked at Gallup today. With registered voters 50 to 43% but with likely voters it is 50 to 46%.

    Obama and his thugs should go back to Chicago now!

  80. I sincerely hope that in 2012 we can finally elect a Democrat as President and get UHC passed.

  81. Carol, on October 12th, 2008 at 4:48 pm Said:
    Yes, Bill said Hillary gave him a present of being able to see most of the football games yesterday.
    He’s happy because he will not be losing his legacy and Hillary will win in 2012.
    Don’t make me call a Haka on you again Clintons! I love ya, but I will Haka you!

    YYYAAAAYYYY!!!

  82. Thank you for your service to OUR COUNTRY!!!

  83. Carol:

    No premiums, no deductible, and everyone is eligible to join.

  84. Thank you for your service to OUR COUNTRY!!!

  85. emm, SofiaNY, we don’t want him back….

  86. Pat is driving them back to Chicago on election night!

  87. NQ needs money for all of the extra servers from the traffic if anyone has any to give!

    If it had not been for his site with all of the info, I would have been stark crazy mad by now. As it is, I am just mad!

  88. Maybe, we should include that on the ballot in NOV. You know, “where should we send Obama & his thugs”?

  89. I saw a mention to “World Bank”.
    Didn’t Bush put Wolfowitz (?sp) in charge of it? If so that could be “1” of many reasons for this mess.
    For those who are upset with Hillary,Bill & Gerry try not to be. These “3” are the ONLY ones I’ve seen support him without COMPLETELY losing their integrity.
    If the Clinton’s did it any other way the “spot-light” would have been on them the WHOLE TIME. As painful as it is to watch,
    this was/is the only way.
    And if she ran as an Independent, which I am & wanted her to do,
    then both the DEMS & the REPUBs would have targeted her & NOT EACH OTHER!!

  90. Carol….
    Yes….you are right! This is OUR Country and no matter what our differences and what transpired in the past….We are all AMERICANS!

  91. sofiaNY
    Well said!
    Do you go on http://www.pocpuma.com?
    If so you can get details about our “Debate Watching Party” on Weds night “down the road” from the site of the debate.
    Love to see you & anyone else there.

  92. fif – I am beginning to think Obama has some voodoo thingy going on where he makes everyone fall for his lies. McCain defended Obama at one of his rallies. Since when was Obama a decent person? Hillary and Bill are supporting this fraud after everything he has done to them.

  93. Sourth Dakota does not celebrate Columbus Day, rather it celebrates Native Americans’ Day. And so do I.

  94. Tpt/ny, I will check it out. The debate is in my neck of the woods. I tried to get tickets but it is not open to the public. Anyway, I will see you at the party.

  95. In honor of Native American’s day I will go to my local casino and lose a bunch of money.

    With the price of gas lately I was considering just throwing my money in the toilet to save time. and avoid driving all the way out there.

  96. GREAT!
    The more people we get the more backing to try & get media people to cover us.
    With Obama doing a rally further down the road @ Eisenhower Park, he’ll dominate the local news. I’d like to see our group be a “counter” to that + coverage of the “one”.
    I’m trying to get in touch with my local “well connected” republican friends to see what’s going on for Mccain?

  97. I agree with you on the whitey tape. I’ll believe it when I see it and I hope we’ll see it in the next several weeks if it in fact exists. But I’ll admit that Joseph Cannon’s findings have intrigued me and I would like to find out who in fact started this rumor even if the tape doesn’t exist.

  98. myiq2xu, on October 12th, 2008 at 4:48 pm Said:

    Ii guess I’ll just have to keep my current health care plan.

    It’s called “Don’t get sick!”
    ………………………………………………

    Yup, that reminds me I had better sign up again to do some volunteer work at the free clinic where folks get care and medicine free of charge. So, no worries myiq2xu us moms will continue to help out, we always do..

    On a serious note, my biggest issue with the DNC is that this time we actually had a chance to pass Universal Health Care and now we have to wait until 2012, with implementation in another two to three years.

    They said it would cost 2 billion dollars to put UHC in place and THAT WAS TOO MUCH, but 87 Billion to AIG (and they came back for seconds, another 37 BILLION) and the now famous 700 Billion dollars wasn’t too much.

    Now consider that this is the second time that a bailout has taken place, the first cost 150 Billion (early bank failures). So, if they would have put it in place in 1993 (when Hillary told ’em) we would still have another 60 years of coverage to go with the first bail out money of 150 Billion (2 billion a year is 75 years coverage plus extra money since it would have made interest, so another 15 years easy on top of that). You would think that these people could have figured out that medical coverage improves productivity and positive cash flows as a result.

    I say take away the elected officials coverage until we get Universal Health Care and once that is done, it will quickly become their number one priority! We will give them 5 bucks to buy insurance because they are over paid as it is. Biden makes more than the Gov. of Alaska….SHOCK! Opens one’s eyes WIDE!

    So, since they don’t don’t put the people first we will put them last and not vote for them!

  99. RedDragon62 – that would be everyone except Barky!

    Ha, Ha……………..

    Off to make a pizza!!!!!!!!!!!

  100. New thread everyone!

  101. Excellent post, SM. Columbus day has always been a holiday here in MA. It’s a very big day for Italians in Boston. Then a few years ago it was made a national holiday. I’ve never been able to understand why. I guess it’s just identity politics. After all none of the other activities related to holidays have much relationship to what they were originally for, e.g. Memorial Day and Labor Day. If we could have some national consciousness raising on this day, maybe that would be good. Thanks for your contribution to that.

  102. BostonBoomer, thanks – growing up in MA gave me more resistance to Columbus Day after knowing the truth.

    I think Italians have far more illustrious citizens to commenmorate their culture. Galileo, Leonardo Da Vinci among countless other great Italians deserve more pomp & circumstance than Columbus, IMO.

  103. latina here would like to praise “christopher colombus”…i dunno maybe ive been blessed with the ability to apply “historical perspective” to the events of 1492. Columbus sailed back to europe shortly after arriving in the new world and came back only to discover the crew he had left behind had been killed off by my ancestors who were practiced cannibalism and other goodies…oh, well. if we ever cancel columbus day we might as well forget any holiday since even the 4th of july reeks of historical atrocities…

  104. …. Uh…. did none of you guys ever go to the Columbus Day parade in Newark? I think it’s more about the Irish celebration of St. Patrick’s Day in March being matched by the Italians doing Columbus Day during the German Oktoberfest… CrimeInItaly! The Church just let the elements of the melting pot shine alone for a day. And MA celebrates “Patriots Day, too! What’s that about but a bunch of snipers and hit & run malitia operatives. Geez!

  105. hello all I took someones advice a few threads back and went fora 5 mile walk!

  106. I love all of you needed a break hope every one forgives me!

  107. by the way I think MadamaB’s new play was wonderful so full of Hope and Change!

  108. SM77 iteresting post I really learned alot. While the treatment of the indiginous people was awful and cannot be condoned. The intoduction of smallpox and other diseases were for the most part an unintended consquence of exploratiion.

    Knowledge of medicine and pathology was unknown and we must remember that the idea of resistance to disease and quarentine were crude at the time. I doubt our civilized society today would make the same mistake.

    Another great killer of the native people was the introduction of measles which while rarely fatal to europeans and introduced slaves was very fatal to the native americans and island people.

    I really hold the american missionaries responsible to their intor duction of disease into the Hawaii’an Islands when there was more knowledge of how disease spread.

    The expansion of human enterprise would have brought these people into contact with each other eventually. We also now know that America may have been visited by the Chinese centuries before and who knows what pathological material they may have introduced .

    Also the vikings visited the coast of labrador and nova scotia centuries before Colombus and surely dropped off diseases in the America’s.

    We also must not forget the thousands truely native american spieces that were wiped out by thie introduction of the indigenous people themselves accross the Berring Sea landbridge during the last Ice Age.

    In the distruction of the “pristine beauty of the Americas” we have many criminals….

    Now it appears there is strong evidence of humans who in habited the Americas befor the current indigenous people. It appears that they to were distroyed by the competition from the new arrivals from the last Ice age.

    I find all this facinating, I also think that Columbus was a flawed individual that held himself in high regard he was often selfish and stubborn believing himself right. He was in short a man of his time.

    I dont know how to correct the sins of the past but maybe we could still honor his daring and exploring spirit regardless of his motives. At the same time acknowledging is shortcoming and flaws.

  109. Columbus had a Norwegian map.

  110. sm77

    Are you Taino? Someone who is familiar with the language should go post a comment on some linguistic website like Language Hat.

    BTW, the word batata listed as a Taino word for potato is the same as the Arabic batata البطاطا The word entered English through Arabic.

  111. Fuzzybear: I’m not taking away Columbus’ effort, I’m just wanting for people to recognize BOTH sides of the story.

    Do you really think that Iraq should hold a George W. Bush holiday in commemoration of his “Liberator” status? NO.

    I think that there should be a footnote made to the historical event that millions suffered at the result of Columbus’ “discovery.” The romanticized version is NOT TRUE.

    That’s what I’m saying. Columbus doesn’t deserve a parade.

    Galileo????? DESERVES A PARADE. He proved that the earth revolves around the sun with scientific data to match Copernicus & Kepner’s theories.

  112. Nijma: God only knows if I have Taino traces in my DNA. I can only infer that I do since my family is from that northern region in DR where they all fled & joined African slaves who rebelled against the Spaniard colonization.

    I can say that my paternal grandmother looks identical to a Native American found in the Great Plains or in South America so who knows at this point.

    I’d have to do a DNA test to see how much is there.

  113. […] Or, for another viewpoint, check out sm77’s HERE. […]

  114. Hello, Do something for help those hungry people in Africa and India,
    I created this blog about that subject:
    in http://tinyurl.com/6kv7fu

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