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Arms and the Man

Just Say No Deal is a coalition, whose members may oppose the candidacy of Barack Obama for many reasons.

My deepest reasons are contained in this poem, based on Virgil’s famous line Of Arms and the Man I Sing

The account of dead children is true. Even http://www.factcheck.org has reported that Obama’s claims about this issue are not true.

This poem reflects my views, and makes no claim to represent
the views of this blog or any of its writers, except of course for myself.

— johninca

Arms And the Man

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun…”
–Barack Obama

“Of arms and the man I sing…”
–Virgil, Aeneid I, 1

Of arms and the man now, like Virgil I sing,
Who a gun to a fight once boasted he’d bring,
If that’s how it’s done on Chicago’s south side,
With him may my country never collide.

If they bring a knife, he said, “…we bring a gun,”
Let not his language shock you, or stun,
If to a rumble a campaign he compared,
Or to employ such metaphors dared.

Of arms and the man with alacrity sing,
And every device of poetry bring,
Lest any part of the cause of his fame
Fail to be met with the highest acclaim.

Your unemployment problem may be resolved,
For Barack will not let you stay uninvolved,
Barack “will require you to work,” we were told,
To declare which, his spouse herself has made bold.

You need not have heeded the party line hack
Who made you indenture yourself to Barack,
What’s yours now be his; and what’s his be his too,
If for him you voted, this be your due.

The ancient poet, if now he were alive
Some means or other would surely contrive
To ask the Muses what fortune or curse
In such a disaster this land could immerse,

Like Communist countries we had once mocked,
And by whose propaganda were shocked,
Whose masses once looked less living than dead,
Proclaiming in song that the East is now Red.

And now, O Great Leader, I’m talking to you:
That there are neither red states nor blue
But only the United States, you declaimed,
For which assertions I did not have you blamed,

Some admirers of yours can speak only of race,
Themselves with calumnious words they disgrace,
The color I see isn’t black– only red,
The color of blood of a baby who’s dead.

Its death had been planned for its own mother’s womb,
But when it escaped from the preordained tomb,
It was to be left in a closet to die,
The poet knows not where this victim may lie,

Such were the children you would not protect,
Lest you lose the slightest of NARAL’s respect,
Of blood I now sing, and the pallor of death,
And children who now have drawn their last breath.

Of arms and the man, and the crack of a gun
Of violence, by which the land’s overrun
Of a country now by evil beguiled,
Of a deadly weapon applied to a child,

Of terror connections swept under rugs,
Of death threats and goons and internet thugs,
Of lies and of slander and friendships destroyed,
And everywhere treacherous agents deployed,

Of aberrant policies skewed to the left,
Of fraud and coercion and caucusing theft,
Of all must I sing before my song can end,
And of a dark night about to descend.

By your own actions I show what you’ve earned,
That you be loved, or that you be spurned,
For your office now deign to show some respect,
Each human life to the weakest protect.

Of arms and the man, and the blood on your hands,
I sing– the damnation your conduct demands,
Change your heart now; change your policies too,
A nation’s healing at last let ensue.

Editorial Note: The theme that is referenced in this poem regarding Senator Obama’s opposition to a bill which would have directed abortion providers in Illinois to resusitate fetuses born alive after an abortion is a sensitive subject for many people. We at The Confluence do not dictate how people should feel about abortion. We respect the views of our readers from both sides of this issue. However, in general, the sentiment of the readers at The Confluence is that we believe that abortion should be safe, legal and rare and that all of us, no matter where our starting point, can work towards the goal of prevention of unwanted pregnancies as the best way to insure that abortions are unnecessary in the future.

80 Responses

  1. johninca – BO is no healer. Is not now, never was, never will be. He is a narcissist of the most awful type.

  2. Since this is your first post you are probably unaware of the tradition requiring you to by everyone a round of drinks.

  3. myiq2xu: I hope you meant “buy”!!

  4. I’m not sure why the edit button is staring me in the face. What should I hit to remove it?

  5. johninca: myiq2xu said it – you need to buy everyone a round of drinks. All that poetry has left you befuddled!

  6. John, As an Author you can edit the comments in your posts.

  7. beautiful johninca

    If they bring a knife, he said, “…we bring a gun,”
    Let not his language shock you, or stun,
    If to a rumble a campaign he compared,
    Or to employ such metaphors dared.

    my fave

    ps Sister MOON is live on CYGNUS RADIO http://www.cygnusradio.com
    now til 3 PM EST
    and she is playing some serious rock with some great lyrics from indie artists if you want to give her a listen she is a NOBAMA MAMA all the way


    also for those who know…
    she is Carol Lowery ..
    Clint Lowery’s of SevenDust fame mother
    SevenDust is returning to Afghanistan to play for the troops next year too 🙂

  8. John, you write beautiful poetry. Although I am ultimately for choice, BO’s disregard for life is very troubling and consistent with his narcissism. I fear him on a very visceral level.

    I just watched a bit of his speech in Philly just now, where he is using his homeboy speech inflections. He was thanking Rendell, Fatah, and the former Philly mayor for their presence and support. Does anyone know why Mayor Nutter was not mentioned or present? He was one of my favorite Hill supporters. I won’t even touch the sweet potato pie riff.

  9. JohninCA: I understand where you’re coming from and I think most of us on this blog have agreed to put aside our differences when it comes to abortion this election season. But I think you should know that most of us, the great majority of us, are pro-choice. And we are pro-choice in the same way that Hillary Clinton was pro-choice. We want to make abortion safe, legal and *rare*. A couple of weeks ago, Ladyboomer wrote a beautiful piece about the realities of abortion. I don’t want to curb your enthusiasm at all because you write beautiful political poetry. But the grim reality is that abortion is never going to go away. If it is illegal, it will simply go underground and become more dangerous. But there is plenty of room for those of us on both sides of this issue to come together by emphasizing responsibility and prevention of unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Can we agree, you and I, that we will work towards the goal of zero unwanted pregnancies in the first place? If we can achieve that goal, we will also achieve the goal of abortion only when it is absolutely necessary.

    I hope you don’t mind if I add a disclaimer to your poem. Your views are your own on this matter. I completely respect them. However, we need to respect the views of others who we consider our friends.

  10. OT– but check out this right wing satire about Obama and his wierd friends. I was always told that conservatives aren’t funny.

    While Obama’s Ayers connection is disturbing, it is only the tip of the iceberg. Anonymous sources close to the Obama camp have leaked information about the Illinois senator’s other terrorist ties, and they are unbelievable. Here is a sample of his four most egregious relationships. Ladies and gentlemen, set your faces to stunned:

    Celine Dion. Surprised? You shouldn’t be. Canada’s most infamous export has been waging a war against good taste and the eardrums of healthy Americans everywhere. The continuous airplay of devilish tunes like “My Heart Will Go On” has been responsible for thousands of hospitalizations, and the suicides of dozens of cats. Apparently, the felines could not take the howling any longer, and overdosed on catnip.

    Sen. Obama has had nothing but good things to say about Dion, and once referred to her as the Streisand of the 20th century. When informed that Barbara Streisand achieved her fame in the 20th century, Obama replied, “Oh. Well, Celine is the Streisand of the 21st century, then.”

    Pepe Le Pew. Le Pew is a skunk of the highest order. This French reactionary specializes in chemical weapons, and has overseen the delivery of more dirty bombs than one would dare believe. An animal with a notoriously short temper, Le Pew has commenced chemical attacks on unsuspecting citizens for the past 40 years. He is unrepentant, and believes that he commits his atrocities out of “love.”

    While vacationing in the French Riviera, Barack Obama was Le Pew’s honored guest, and spent a week at the terrorist’s beach compound. The two even spent the day sailing the Mediterranean Sea.


    Yosemite Sam. During his teenage years, Barack Obama cultured a relationship with notorious domestic terrorist Yosemite Sam. A despicable character, Sam has been linked to train robbery, arms dealing, kidnapping, and rabbit poaching. Quick to anger, Sam once shot a coyote for trying to drop an anvil on his head.

    Sen. Obama once claimed that Yosemite Sam was “misunderstood,” and “a product of a racist American system that discriminates against short, red-haired people.” Insiders close to the Democrat nominee claim that an Obama Administration would give Sam a full pardon for any criminal act committed inside the United States.

    Go read it all. It’s pretty funny.

  11. RD, while I am against abortion I didn’t come here to speak against abortion any more than I’d go to a pro-Obama site to speak against Obama.

    The poem is about children who survived attempted abortions and were left in a utility closet to die. The facts resulted in an attempt to pass BAIPA, or the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. Fact Check, as I said, has reported that Obama’s statements on this subject are not true.

  12. John, I think it only fitting to share some Obama poetry with you, in light of your brilliant post.

    “Under water grottos, caverns

    Filled with apes

    That eat figs.

    Stepping on the figs

    That the apes

    Eat, they crunch.

    The apes howl, bare

    Their fangs, dance . . .”



  13. Check out: http://www.matthew25.org
    Get the PDF. “Pro-Life Obama”

    The poem above touches on his stance with “Infant born alive act” which he denies he voted against.

    It’s amazing to see how he panders to christians for votes. He will say anything to anyone and be anything to anyone to get a vote. If he get’s elected I think many christians, especially the evangelical community will have been suckered! And as a Catholic I don’t feel good about that at all, not at all. He just can never be or say who he really is or what he really stands for or we would all be running for the hills.

  14. Cinie- what a high-minded piece of literature from such a young man, foreshadowing all that we have grown to appreciate in his growing corpus.

  15. wtf is this???

  16. oh no “dances with crunchy figs fangs” is back ! my eyes my eyes


  17. I was referring to Cinie’s post of BO’s poetry, if that is what you are referring to.

  18. Apologies to the Bard:

    Ode to BO

    Shall I compare thee to the Chosen One?
    Thou art more lovely and more cool!
    Rough winds did shake the Democrat Convention fun,
    But Hillary hath lost, poor fool!
    Sometime too hot the temper of McCain does flare,
    And often is his scarred complexion dimm’d;
    Even your cool countenance sometime declines,
    By dint of lies and r*cist comments untrimm’d;
    But thy eternal light will not fade
    Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow’st;
    Nor shall McCain brag thou wander’st in his shade,
    When in eternal lines to time thou grow’st:
    So long as there is Kool Aid for you, and me,
    So long lives the lie, and the lie gives life to thee!

    It’s your fault, johninca!

  19. lililam, since I first read it, I haven’t been able to get it out of my mind. Whenever I am too slow to mute the TV at the sound of his voice, all I hear is, “crunchy figs, crunchy figs,” over and over again.
    Oh, well, it beats listening to whatever he is actually saying, huh?

  20. Most of my poetry is published on restroom walls

  21. JohninCA: I know what you are referring to in the poem and I agree that it is horrific and immoral. However, as I have said before, in general, the sentiment here pro-choice. Now, our challenge is to figure out how we can coexist with people who, like yourself, share a different point of view. What I suggest we start with are some commonly shared principles. For example, I think you and I can agree that we support equality for all people, regardless of gender. If we can put that in the forefront of our negotiations on the subject of abortion, we can get to a solution much more rapidly than if we pretend that God didn’t already give us this equality in the first place.

  22. I agree, Cinie, it has a piquant innocuity to it, as opposed to the crap that emits from his mouth now. The irony is, figs are rarely crunchy, I believe, although there may be some outer shell that I am unaware of.

  23. myiq2xu, on October 11th, 2008 at 2:54 pm Said:
    Most of my poetry is published on restroom walls

    I think I have been reading you for years ….

  24. “It’s your fault, johninca!”

    Please, I’d be delighted at these outbursts of creativity were it not for the grim fate facing my country.

    Riverdaughter once asked me if I were worried that the other side might ever steal my thunder by producing its own poetry.

    It will never happen, never. To move men’s hearts through poetry, one has to have an intuition for the true, the good and the beautiful. The progbloggers could not locate these things if you gave them a map, a magnifying glass and a GPS.

  25. johninca

    ” Fact Check, as I said, has reported that Obama’s statements on this subject are not true.”

    As I understand it, Obama explained his position as due to there being no “neutrality clause” in the bill. However, the evidence proves the opposite and again, no one cares.

    However, one sees BAIPA, Obama’s statements concerning it are just more evidence of what a perniciously mendacious ass he is.

  26. myiq did you write this under a sign that said: “Employees Must Wash Hands”

    I waited and waited, but I finally washed them myself.

    tee heee

  27. “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun” – I wasn’t sure of the context of his remark so I looked it up – it was said by BO at a political fundraiser (I actually had thought he might have been describing his foreign policy). Pretty scarey stuff.
    I spent the morning with a Quaker group and they pretty much all seem to be for BO. I said to a Friend that there really is not “peace candidate” in this election, and he agreed, and indicated that he truly had his doubts about voting at all.

    BTW, still no winner on my newest Saturday Puzzler, which I don’t get, because it was the easiest one yet. Take a look, if you have time, I’d like to give the $ today to Dems for Principle Before Politics’ ad campaign.

  28. dcattorney- I think I just won the prize!!! Give my love to Heidi!!!

  29. myiq2xu,

    That sounds like a shoutout to Simon and Garfunkel. Or maybe that was before your time.

    And the people bowed and prayed
    To the neon god they made
    And the sign flashed out its warning
    In the words that it was forming
    And the sign said, “The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
    And tenement halls”
    And whispered in the sounds of silence

  30. ahh bb thank you for the reminder of that great song …….

  31. Hi moderator BB…I just posted in the “Why William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn Matter” article and am awaiting moderation. If you could check it out to see if I’ve broken house rules, that would be good.

    Also—I’ve forgotten how to create quote boxes. Lost my Confluence cheat-sheet.

  32. I’ll go look, Karolina.

  33. Very good poem, expressive of serious concerns many of us progressives have for a man who promises us all that we want, yet fights with tactics and methods we abhor and refuse to condone.

    Obama is a man of contradiction. His and Michelle early beginnings are from a world we relate and embrace. He claims to fight for peace, healing our planet, social equality and other things many of us aspire to yet seem, in our time, to be so elusive. Then as a young man he veered into a political world of ,in my opinion, non productive radicalism tainted by corruption. He can try to disassociate as much as he wants, but we cant help but believe that Wright, Pfledger, Rezco, Ayers et al are all political, we heard and saw their views. We find it hard to just believe Obama does not harbor some of the extreme views just because he says he doesn’t. He wants to get elected, how could he say he agrees ?

    I was watching Thomas Hager, author of ‘Alchemy of Air’ explain a how nitrogen has kept food on the worlds table but is also responsible for ‘dead’ water on our planet. These are examples of issues we want, need and expect our government to address , sooner rather than later.
    Yet Obama, to me is like the Business Opportunity add on TV that promises the house, pool, vacation, cash but then really has no service or product. Then you wonder how these things are out there and why the government does not protect people from these scams. With Obama it started off as a hunch, developed to witnessing and now the truths behind the Democratic candidate are slowly being exposed.

    His affiliations, omissions, tactics etc. leave us wondering how and why is he the nominee ?
    When we are scared and concerned about his obvious elusiveness we are called xenophobic. I think traumatized by a catastrophic event, two wars and a government who seemingly is not concerned by our best interests, but is selling us out for personal or political gain, would be a more accurate description of sentiments felt by vast groups of Americans. Our serious fears are then consistently dismissed by leaders in whom we have very little confidence in.

    What promised to be a great opportunity for real change, has suddenly become a fear of an agenda that seems to be secret ( a strange form of a radical extreme ideology ) yet packaged and presented as all we have been waiting and hoping for. For many it is a terrible time, very far from unity, and even further from hope.

  34. Karolina,

    I think it was the length of your comment that put it in moderation. I freed it.

  35. Grayseeuss, BB.

  36. Hello all,

    I figured I would comment up here, since this is where the party is. OT to this post, and my apologies to JohninCA.

    I feel strongly that the Haka of the moment has time to solidify a solid backlash that benefits McCain before the election. The crowd rumblings at McPalin rallies are articulating what I believe will be reflected in the voting booths everywhere.

    Yay to McCain. He has once again won my admiration for his defense of decency in his remarks to the most outrageous protesters.

    There is time for the soup to thicken against BO. He has so many toxic ingredients. And those horrific infomercials planned from BO will sicken way more people than not. Botulism from the box.

    As for the MyIQ lovefest that I missed out on:
    It has always been plain that I absolutely adore MYIQ. I only backed off expressing it so much, because I was sounding like a stalker. But maybe MYIQ likes a good stalker.

  37. I dislike Obama as much (or more) than anyone out there. Hands down. But I ask that people become more informed about these specific bills before reaching conclusions.

    Editorial note said: “work towards the goal of prevention of unwanted pregnancies as the best way to insure that abortions are unnecessary in the future.”

    Just a few things wrong with this. For starters, some abortions are necessary even during very much wanted pregnancies to save the health and life of the woman (or girl), and to end fetal suffering (see the article below). And rape and incest is not planned by the woman (or girl).

    Zeroing in on these religious right-engineered bills, specifically designed for the purpose of overthrowing Roe v. Wade, rather than any meaningful, reasoned reform, does not serve us well. We are playing into their hands.

    These bills are specifically designed to elicit shock, without looking at the lives of the real women and girls and their real situations. Simiarly the “partial birth” bill. Enough “shock” and abortion will be illegal. Use exceptional stories, such as the “closet” story for added effect. Never use the real stories of the vast majority of woman and girls.

    What is shocking is watching women become disabled and die as a result of troubled pregnancies, victims lose their mental health, and fetuses with anencephaly and other grave disorders become “resuscitated”. Who decides? Apparently not the woman (or girl). And who takes responsibility for the cost in more than broken lives and families after “the decision”? There is so much more to this than appears on the surface.

    It’s a complicated issue, that’s why it is best left out of government hands.


    Unlike many American voters, Watts knows that “partial-birth abortion” does not exist. Coined by anti-choice activists, this term cannot be found in any medical dictionary. Its imprecision, according to defenders of choice, could target a whole host of procedures.

    When Congress first considered the ban in 1995, Watts testified on Capitol Hill. So did Viki Wilson of Fresno, Calif., who had a late-term abortion because the brain of the fetus she was carrying had developed outside the skull. So did Vikki Stella of Naperville, Ill., whose fetus had no brain tissue and seven other major abnormalities.

    Watts, Stella and Wilson point out that in virtually all cases, late-term abortions are the only way to respond to unanticipated complications: the death of the fetus inside the womb, problems that mean the fetus can’t live outside the womb, or serious threats to the mother’s health.

    “No women has these procedures for frivolous reasons,” says Stella. “They have them because it’s their only choice.”

  38. Karolina,

    Oops, I did it all wrong.

    BB, can you please send my comment to oblivion where all dumb comments reside?

  39. mcindy
    I am pro choice, yet I have made comments about being apposed to late term abortion. It is to my understanding that fetal abnormalities, through various prenatal tests, can be seen within the first trimester.
    I find third term abortion very hard to swallow and unethical, having a board of doctors claiming it is really a medical issue, to be given in to authorities, may lesson any abuse if their is any in this procedure.
    I believe you are right, women and doctors are not likely to abuse this procedure, but the formality would at least show respect for the fetus.
    Another issue being politicized is the right of doctors to choose not to perform the procedure. It is my belief that as long as a non judgmental referral was given, this would be a gesture of respect for doctors who wish to opt out of performing the procedure for their own religious / philosophical / ethical reasons.

  40. There is some impressive poetry being written here. Not so Obama’s poem, which is about nothing, says nothing, and ultimately means nothing. Of course, in that sense, it is utterly authentic.

  41. Fox News is reporting that John Lewis is saying McCain is racist akin to George Wallace…

    John Lewis?!? I feel sick… I love John Lewis… I can hardly believe it…

  42. petal,

    It is impossible to identify chromosomal problems, such as severe retardation and Down’s syndrome until around the fourth month of pregnancy. Some problems crop up even later.

  43. Thanks, Prolix, for the article on hypertension massage. I may be needing it soon… especially on November 4th.

    If you do find the cheat-sheet URL, I’d be most appreciative as mine is on my other computer, which is in the Apple shop in Chicago. I probably won’t be able to get it for a few weeks.

  44. msindy
    thank you for that comment.

    I support safe and legal abortion, and object to the addition of the word “rare”.

    What, exactly, does that imply?
    That abortion is a somehow wrong? Bad? A moral issue?
    It sounds like a judgment to me.

    And if we allow judgment to play a role then we certainly are playing into the hands of the religious right.

  45. Mcindy, i am an RN , and i believe that any decision regarding a medical procedure belongs in the medical arena not in the political . Late term or third trimester abortions are almost always only performed if the mother is in danger , or there is some fetal congential anomaly that is not compatible with life . A viable fetus is not always compatible with life, long term . I know because I have taken care of these children , after their parents rejected them and left them in hospitals to die.
    I think this is a medical question far too difficult to legislate in any form , and should be left to the discretion and judgement of the parents and MD , and decisions regarding what happens can and shuold ideally be worked out prenatally . I am aware that prenatal care is far from 100% in this country and ddecisions cannot always be anticipated by prior consultation with the mother or parents . I still believe these decisions shuold be made within the medical arena and not the political one .
    I am pro-choice, anti -legislation ,and nobama .

  46. shouldn’t any invasive procedure be rare, or at least as rare as possible? I don’t find that it makes a moral judgement at all, just a practical one. I think that the rare part also indicates that most of us support open access to birth control that is readily available and affordable, and routine. In our country unwanted pregnancy should be a rare occurence, shouldn’t it?

  47. The crescendo against Hillary reached its peak in the closing days of the final 3 primaries. It was about 2 or 3 weeks as I recall for the last 3 to be played out. Hillary I heard recently was already telling people that BO would be the winner and they should support him.

    We are witnessing the death throes of our Democracy and I am saddened. From now on there will be no pretense when the Media chooses our next Presidents.

    Obama will move fiercely against all who oppose him publically. As a President he will do what he is told on most matters of economics. He will sink us economically as he and his cronies move into the world of the super rich.

  48. Here’s a haiku to add to the poetry list:

    Barack Obama
    Rezko, Wright, Ayers and Flager
    God help our country

  49. bostonboomer
    I am sure that there are a few problems that do and can arise later in a pregnancy. I still feel a formality by an informal board of doctors and submited to an authority would show respect for the fetus. I think the time, cost and paper involved are well worth it.
    The procedure is very aggressive. Of course I expect that many disagree for many reasons, this is true with most issues.

  50. I respect those who are pro-life because they honestly believe that abortion is immoral and/or that a fertilized egg is a human life.

    I have no problem with them choosing to not have abortions or urging others (in a non-coercive environment) to choose other options.

    Abortion involves deep moral and ethical issues, and needs to be taken seriously. I have conflicted feelings myself, especially at the thought of abortion being used casually as a form of birth contriol

    But no one has the right to make those decisions for others, especially in the first trimester, when the fetus is not-viable. Nor does anyone have the right to pry into a woman’s life and private sexual history. No woman should have to prove she is justified in having an abortion to avoid being forced to bear the child. She should be free to make that decision in private consultation with her conscience and her doctor.

    Therefore I am pro-choice.

    Someday we may live in a world where technology solves the ethical and moral dilemmas.

    Until then . . .

  51. petal:

    “An informal board of doctors” is simply a tool to block abortions.

    We don’t submit other decisions of great import to such boards, do we?

    A single doctor can pronounce death, and/or make life or death decisions and diagnosis.

  52. If a doctor says there is a 10% chance that the pregnancy will be fatal for the mother, is that enough to justify her having an abortion?

    Would you take a job that included a 10% chance of killing you?

  53. noimean
    *all* the time.

  54. stateof disbelief
    we are all friendless racists here so you are in good company

  55. Swanspirit, thank you for your post (@4:39 pm). I couldn’t agree more that abortion decisions should be entirely outside the political arena.

    As a relative newcomer here (and one who seldom posts), I’m well aware of the smallness of my voice in the Confluence hierarchy. As such, I’m reluctant to share many details of my own personal story, but let me say that no one (and especially no man) has any right to question, much less overrule, the painful decision I made more than 15 years ago to place my own survival over that of my unborn child, a decision made all the more difficult by the stark reality that my two living, breathing children (one of them disabled) might be facing life without their mother. The procedure I underwent to save my own life is illegal today.

    Riverdaughter, I applaud your even-handed equanimity in allowing differing opinions to be expressed on the abortion issue. I readily admit that I would not show as much forbearance. In most things, I am a moderate. When it comes to choice, I am a militant radical. My right to self-determination is absolute. Without the right to make my own medical decisions, my ability to participate in and contribute to society as a fully engaged citizen is compromised. It is fundamentally undemocratic that laws controlling the bodies of more than half the population are made primarily by those to whom those laws will never apply. Nowhere is the 30 per cent solution more evident and more important than in the issue of reproductive rights. I can sum up my position in 4 words: No uterus, no opinion.

    Respectfully submitted,

    Mother of two and survivor

  56. What did I say to put me in moderation?

  57. This takeover of our Election process is quite significant and quite UNAmerican for a country that represents Democracy.

    How is your American ideology meter doing? Does it agree with Michelle Obama’s idea of how American Values will be expected to “CHANGE” when her husband is elected president?

    in reading this link…read William’s post in the comment section:


  58. Ughhh…just got into an argument with another (now former) friend.

  59. catarina- I agree 100%. Whether or not a woman should have an abortion should be decided by the person that is pregnant.

  60. New post up!

  61. “What did I say to put me in moderation?”

    Speaking for myself, I didn’t do any comment moderation here, except to delete one of my comments that accidentally posted twice.

    Sometimes people get thrown into moderation by posting certain links or using certain words that trigger moderation, most notably the “r” word.

  62. Apologies to Basho and Gordon in Kansas:

    The first hard comment
    the candidate seems to want
    a little Kool Aid

  63. I have never commented here before. But I agree with the comments that the Obama machine aided by the MSM is trying to railroad this election.

    My daughter works near DC. She is in an office that has mostly Obama supporters so she keeps her mouth shut. Thursday, one of her coworkers has a friend come in the office. He was a democrat also but quite disturbed by what he was watching around him. He asked his friend if he had gotten the email he sent (apparently it was a report that documented just how biased the news media has been in Obama’s favor this election season).

    He said to his friend, I didn’t need this report to see this but it confirms to me what I have been noticing. For instance, the media investigates Sarah Palin if she blows her nose but they just cover for Obama with all of these weird associations he has. Then he said, in fact, Obama doesn’t have any experience – he started running for President soon after he became Senator. Sarah Palin does have more relevant experience than Obama. She has executive experience as Governor and Mayor.

    He finished with the fact that he had decided to not vote for anyone this year because he couldn’t stomach what was going on.

    I am a Republican but I was rooting for Hilary – not that I would have voted for her in the general election but because I thought it would basically be a fair normal political campaign. I have been frightened by Obama from the beginning because of the way he was portraying himself as a Messiah. That is weird and it makes me think he is a demagogue. Even though he is no longer doing that (only because Hillary Clinton and John McCain called him on it)- his campaign and their tactics are really scary.

  64. Thanks for liberating my post John. I think I fugured it out why it got flagged–I used te word “contr0lling” which contains the word “tr0ll.”

    Gosh, ya gotta be careful what ya say around here! 🙂

  65. catarina, birth control failure is RARE. problems with late term pregnancies are RARE. Abotions should be RARE. what is wrong with that? What, you want abortion to be commonplace? I don’t see how that does anything for the right. Yeah abortion should be legal under any circumstance, but I don’t see why anybody would want them to be anything but rare.

  66. in fact your comment that birth control fails often is itself a right wing talking point. that’s their excuse for abstinence education. It is also why when thousands were dying of aids that the govt wouldn’t promote condom use…the right said it was ineffective. I worked at the CDCNAIDS hotline in the early nineties, and that simplly isn’t true. Condoms are effective over 90% of the time of not only preventing pregnancy, but preventing HIV transmission. Other forms of birth control are even more effective. So before you get bent out of shape at what the right will make of rare…you might want to reflect on your own assertions..

  67. Nell, on October 11th, 2008 at 5:41 pm Said:
    Swanspirit, thank you for your post (@4:39 pm). I couldn’t agree more that abortion decisions should be entirely outside the political arena.

    You are so very welcome . and I am happy you are here and that you made the decision you did …Thank you for telling your story, as well… it is so important to make people know there are humans involved not statistics !!!
    sending Love and HUGS

  68. gary, I’m not the slightest bit bent out of shape.
    I’m in fine shape.

    Abortions, in my opinion, should be “as needed”, period.
    And this is no right wing talking point-it’s my own personal experience.
    I got pregnant at 18, while on the pill. I know others who have as well.
    I’ve been working for choice, doing fundraising and other work, ever since. I did, however, chose to keep my child.
    Sorry, I don’t think I can really discuss this further here.

  69. so you can attack and then say you don’t want to discuss it? um, ok.

  70. gary, what are you talking about?
    I didn’t attack you!
    Reread my comments. And please don’t *shout* at me.

    I do feel prevention and abortion must be viewed as two separate issues, and that does not mean I want abortions to be common-that’s just silly. And I’ve never know anyone, ever, ever-who used abortion as birth control-that’s a right wing talking point if I ever heard one.

    I do not support the notion of making condoms or any form of birth control, including information, inaccessible and I never said anything to that effect.

    re: “rare”-define rare.
    Look at some effective rates for b/c methods. If b/c fails for one out of 20 people and an unwanted pregnancy results is that “rare”?
    I’ve taken many a horrified woman for that dreaded clinic trip, Gary, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
    None of the women I accompanied were having a good time, trust me. They weren’t clamoring to go back. Yet some did-should they have been punished and denied service? Did they have one too many? Do we limit the number of abortions per woman? Does that help keep it rare? It’s too weird for me, sorry if you don’t agree.

    I’ve heard Hillary make this “rare” statement and it’s one of the few things she says that I find very upsetting. I’ve wondered if she really feels there should be limits or if this is something she does to appease critics.
    I personally find it disturbing.

  71. gary, what are you talking about?
    I didn’t attack you!
    Reread my comments. And please don’t *shout* at me.

    I do feel prevention and abortion must be viewed as two separate issues, and that does not mean I want abortions to be common-that’s just silly. And I’ve never know anyone, ever, ever-who used abortion as birth control-that’s a right wing talking point if I ever heard one.

    I do not support the notion of making condoms or any form of birth control, including information, inaccessible and I never said anything to that effect.

    re: “rare”-define rare.
    Look at some effective rates for b/c methods. If b/c fails for one out of 20 people and an unwanted pregnancy results is that “rare”?
    I’ve taken many a horrified woman for that dreaded clinic trip, Gary, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
    None of the women I accompanied were having a good time, trust me. They weren’t clamoring to go back. Yet some did-should they have been punished and denied service? Did they have one too many? Do we limit the number of abortions per woman? Does that help keep it rare? It’s too weird for me, sorry if you don’t agree.

    I’ve heard Hillary make this “rare” statement and it’s one of the few things she says that I find very upsetting. I’ve wondered if she really feels there should be limits or if this is something she does to appease critics.
    I personally find it disturbing.

  72. when did I ever say that abortion was used as birth control? And you did attack my comment and accused me of espousing right wing rhetoric. I don’t like that. I think your numbers are way off. In fact I know they are. and it is exactly that kind of rhetoric that allows the right to promote fake educational programs that push abstinence instead of teaching people how to use birth control effectively.

    I also have known and worked with many people who became infected with HIV or other STD’s because they had been told LIES about the effectiveness of methods of prevention and birth control. You don’t have a monopoly on personal feelings about this issue.

    You are way out of line with all the things you are accusing me of implying. I find it over the top and repugnant.

  73. your comments are rude, unnecessary, uncalled for, and inappropriate.
    shame on you for belittling my opinion and experience.
    done with you. period.

  74. I could say the same to you catarina. I find your implications about me extremely rude and unfair. You accuse me of belittling your opinion, but it is in fact you that began this discussion by belittling our opinion that abortion should be rare. There are other voices out there besides your own.

  75. catarina,

    I had an abortion. I was and remain absolutely pro-choice but for me, there were significant emotional consequences. I would never wish what I went through, in part because of a history of depression, on another woman or girl.

    One of my favorite things that Hillary says is that abortion should be safe, legal and rare. I want us to give every girl and woman with the appropriate tools to make wise decisions about her sexual behavior and the freedom to make the choice that’s best for her.

  76. Speaking as a misanthrope I’ve always felt, looking around, that there haven’t been nearly enough abortions, but in any case, since I can’t get preggers, my view is that is an issue to be decided by those who can, for themselves, not those who can’t for others.

    I oppose Obama because to the extent he has any principles they skew Right, not Left, so a poem that includes the line

    >Of aberrant policies skewed to the left,

    can only be designed to convince me to support BO after all. But it will take a lot more than bad poetry to convince me Obama is on my ideological side of the fence.

  77. Can I just add
    how ironic the “click to look inside ” arrow on the book is ??

    as IF anything as simple as a click would pry open that facade ….

  78. Here is a link about Auchi, the shadowy and extremely wealthy Iraqi some say is behind Obama’s miraculous fundraising capabilities. The truth about this figure will probably never be known completely, but this piece is less tin foil hat than some I’ve seen.


  79. This nurse attacking Obama by talking about supposed “live birth abortions” strikes me as a little phony. The story sounds bogus to me, but she knows full well that it’s illegal for an employee to reveal patient information that would allow people to check out the facts in the case she is claiming.

    I do know a couple who gave birth to something I cannot call a baby. It had six toes, cleft palette, could not eat, and had neurological problems that no one could even begin to describe. They freaked out, got it airlifted by helicopter to a special hospital then spent all their energy trying in vain to make it into a baby. They found someone with a special neuroprograming theory to prescribe special exercises and had all their friends and neighbors coming in shifts several hours a day to move this thing’s sprawled out limbs to try to teach it to move by itself. In the meantime their other two beautiful children had no attention.

    I’m terribly glad I was not the one to have to make a decision about this thing-that-was-not-a-baby, but I’m sure not going to be the first one to stand up and criticize other people when they are the ones who have to make a difficult decision. They need their privacy.

    Politicizing this by making out the people who have to make difficult decisions to be ogres–or forcing them to defend every painful detail of their medical and reproductive lives publicly– is just not fair.

  80. A beautiful poem.

    Thank you!

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