• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    William on A Hypothesis
    William on A Hypothesis
    Propertius on A Hypothesis
    Propertius on A Hypothesis
    insightanalytical on Happy Fourth of July!
    William on Happy Fourth of July!
    Propertius on Focusing on the Wrong Thi…
    Propertius on Focusing on the Wrong Thi…
    William on Focusing on the Wrong Thi…
    Propertius on Focusing on the Wrong Thi…
    Propertius on Focusing on the Wrong Thi…
    William on Focusing on the Wrong Thi…
    riverdaughter on And so it begins…
    lililam on Somewhat Brief Reflections
    Propertius on And so it begins…
  • Categories

  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

    • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.
  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • Now That We’re At Peak, How Fast Will Civilization Collapse Be?
      Last week I wrote an article about the future of civilization, collapse centered around a graph from “Limits To Growth.” I spent a fair bit of time staring at this graph yesterday, and I want to return to it, because it says some very important things about what’s coming up over the next decades. The first thing to understand is that the future is, as Willia […]
  • Top Posts

Why William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn Matter

When I was young, my mom used to tell me to choose my friends carefully, because “you are judged by the company you keep.” Barack Obama has an awful lot of troubling friends and supporters. It’s not just a distraction that he chose to spend twenty years in Jeremiah Wright’s church, or that he worked for William Ayers and announced his first campaign for the Illinois Senate at the home of William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn.

Yesterday, Obama was interviewed by right wing talk show host Michael Smerconish, and tried out a new excuse to explain his relationship with William Ayers.

In recent days, McCain and running mate Sarah Palin have been alluding to Obama’s acquaintance with William Ayers, who as a young Weather Underground radical supported domestic bombings. In 1995, while running for state senate in Illinois, Obama was invited to a fund-raising party at Ayers’ home. “Why go to his house to begin with?” Smerconish asked.

Obama explained that after law school, he moved to Chicago, and met Ayres, who was a college professor, while “working on a school reform project that was funded by an ambassador and former close friend of Ronald Reagan’s.”

“I was sitting on this board with a whole bunch of conservative businessmen and civic leaders, and he [Ayers] was one of the people who was on this board. And he lives in the same neighborhood. Ultimately I learned that he [Ayers] was involved in this reprehensible act 40 years ago, but I was 8 years old at the time. And I assumed he had been rehabilitated.”

“I’ve strongly condemned his actions. The fact that Sen. McCain wants to makes this the centerpiece of his campaign is pretty remarkable,” Obama said. “… Nobody is suggesting that in any way the actions that this radical group back in the ’60s did was the right thing to do.”

“This guy is not part of my inner circle. He doesn’t advise my campaign. He’s not going to advise me as president. This is a red herring.”

I’m sorry, but it’s only a red herring if you are the kind of person who is willing to use anyone and anything to advance your own career. Ayers and Dohrn and their fellow Weathermen plotted mass murder. It’s as simple as that. They are no different than Timothy McVeigh, except that McVeigh managed to kill more people than the Weather Underground did. Furthermore, the Weather Underground managed to irreparably damage the nonviolent struggle against the Vietnam War.

When Obama talked about the “excesses of the 1960s and 1970s,” what did he mean anyway if not the actions of people like Ayers and Dohrn? Surely he wasn’t simply referring to day glow rock concert posters and pop art? But since I have no idea what Obama’s values are or if he even has basic values, I don’t really know.

Now Obama tries to convince us that he thought Ayers had been “rehabilitated.” But wouldn’t that mean that Ayers had shown some remorse for his criminal actions? Does Obama really expect us to believe that he didn’t even read the article about Ayers that appeared in the New York Times on September 11, 2001?

”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.” Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970’s as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago. The long curly locks in his Wanted poster are shorn, though he wears earrings. He still has tattooed on his neck the rainbow-and-lightning Weathermen logo that appeared on letters taking responsibility for bombings. And he still has the ebullient, ingratiating manner, the apparently intense interest in other people, that made him a charismatic figure in the radical student movement.

Charles Krauthammer addressed this issue in his Washington Post column today.

Convicted felon Tony Rezko. Unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers. And the race-baiting Rev. Jeremiah Wright. It is hard to think of any presidential candidate before Barack Obama sporting associations with three more execrable characters. Yet let the McCain campaign raise the issue, and the mainstream media begin fulminating about dirty campaigning tinged with racism and McCarthyite guilt by association.

But associations are important. They provide a significant insight into character. They are particularly relevant in relation to a potential president as new, unknown, opaque and self-contained as Obama. With the economy overshadowing everything, it may be too late politically to be raising this issue. But that does not make it, as conventional wisdom holds, in any way illegitimate.

Right now Obama seems to be coated in teflon, like his idol Ronald Reagan was. Reagan could have strangled someone on national TV and the media would have chuckled about what a character Ronnie was. Is Obama really Reagan on steroids? It certainly seems that way at the moment. But I grew up in the Midwest. I just don’t think the down-to-earth, sensible Midwesterners are going to buy Obama’s excuses in the end. If they vote for him it will be because of unreasoning fear about the economy. But truthfully, I think McCain shows more potential to grow in office than Obama does. And McCain shows some signs of having a little bit of compassion for ordinary people. Obama has compassion for himself and his cronies. I guess we are just going to have to wait and see what happens.

In the meantime, please watch this video containing clips of the 2002 documentary on the Weather Underground. And then tell me William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn are just distractions from the *important* issues. I am speaking for myself only.

UPDATE: Well, I guess it was to be expected. Commenter Prolix passed on the news that the Obama campaign today tried to walk back Obama’s statement to Smerconish that he believed Bill Ayers had been “rehabilitated.”

…since 1995 — when Obama met Ayers — the founding member of the Weather Underground has gone on to make it clear that he doesn’t think he did anything wrong. And Obama has worked with him (as have plenty of others, including some Republicans) on education issues and such.

And Ayers has made it clear that he is unrepentant.

”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Ayers told the New York Times in 2001. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.” Asked if he would do it all again, Ayers said, ”I don’t want to discount the possibility.

And what did Obama’s spokespeople have to say?

So, today, with today’s facts, does Obama think Ayers has been “rehabilitated”?

No, he doesn’t think so, a source at the campaign tells me.

Obama spox Bill Burton says of Obama’s comment that he thought Ayers had been “rehabilitated”: “Sen. Obama was referring to his education work but he, of course, does not believe that work absolves him of the despicable acts that he committed 40 years ago.”

I see… um no. I don’t see. We’re going to need a better W.O.R.M. than that, Bill.

247 Responses

  1. Sorry but go Red Sox go!

    Anybody else with this many shady connections would be bared from running for ANY serious office in this country, but hey, the is The Chosen One (from the media).

  2. MABlue,

    Is the game over? What’s the score?

  3. Something is not right about this election.

    First, Obama does not defeat Clinton, but is nominated anyway.
    Second, ACORN is openly engaged in massive voter registration fraud, and the authorities are doing nothing to stop it.
    Third, Obama is awash with millions donated from abroad.
    Fourth, the global banking system suddenly collapses, oh, just a month before the election.
    Fifth, the Republicans are holding back?!

    I think the entire sham is being orchestrated. Are there supranational forces behind the scenes, coordinating the seizure of U.S. banks while propping up a candidate with zero substance? What’s this “change” we keep hearing so much about?

  4. The reason Democrats don’t have a problem with Ayres is that he just tried to blow up people, generically. They don’t care about that. They only care if someone’s setting bombs based on an ‘ism’, esp. r*c*sm. (well, except if the ism was feminism, they’d have no problem if Ayres tried to blow up just women).

    Back when I read TL and Jeralyn would pound on Ayres when someone tried to ‘smear’ him by mentioning actions he admitted to and expressed no regret for, the bots that would show up and breathlessly recite the talking points — that it was ok now because he ‘has paid his debt to society by becoming a professor’ or ‘that was a long time ago, how long should a solid citizen be punished??!?!?!’, I really, really wanted to vomit.

    I have great admiration and sympathy for those who protested the war (I was too young to be marching in the streets myself). But 0 tolerance for bombs. I’m appalled that such a thing is seriously up for discussion. But hardly surprised, as Obama supporters believe anything, even violence, is justified as long as you believe.

  5. Given Obama’s current excuse — new and improved! — do you think it would be too much for some clever interviewer to ask him the obvious follow up question: exactly when did Obama realize that Ayers had not been “rehabilitated”? Why did he continue to associate with Ayers after that point?

  6. BB, you are on fire — two insightful posts and the night is still young! What’s next?

    By the way, later in the day BZero’s assistant press putz tried to walk back the “rehabilitated” statement. Apparently, he’s never seen Dr. Drew.

  7. Yes, and I’m so tired of the ‘I was only 8 years old’ thing. It’s irrelevant. If he was 8 when he became friends with Ayres, fine, I wouldn’t hold anyone’s childhood pals against them. But he was an adult when he befriended Ayres. I mean, who cares so little the people around them that when they hear they were a domestic terrorist they just ‘assume’ they’ve been rehabilitated? Wouldn’t you FIND OUT before you let such a person near your family?

  8. Distractions, Distractions, la da la da, la da la da

  9. “And I assumed he had been rehabilitated”

    Well, google searches are your friend. This guy’s a talker and on the off chance he never mentioned what he was more than happy to tell the press, a quick perusal of his blog and other sources would tell you otherwise.

    I love that Obama falls back on the Bush defense everytime. I’m not complicit, I’m just really detached and never have a damn clue what’s going on around me.

  10. They matter simply because BO continues to lie about them. The way he has lied about EVERY SINGLE DETAIL of his life. I cannot think of another candidate for any political postion in my lifetime that I have known less about.

  11. Well, I know it’s out of date to point this out, but Bill Ayers thought of the Weather Underground as a branch of the “red army.” That’s an “ism” Communism.

    Bill Ayers, along with his wife Bernardine Dohrn, was a 1960s leader of the homegrown terrorist group Weatherman, a Communist-driven splinter faction of Students for a Democratic Society. Characterizing Weatherman as “an American Red Army,” Ayers summed up the organization’s ideology as follows: “Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, Kill your parents.”


    Not that I care about the communism part. It’s just the murdering part that I have so much distaste for.

  12. I am now writing to Charles Manson because I was 18 at the time he sliced open a woman and stabbed her and others to death or ordered others to. But, it is okay, they had a good dinner afterwards.

    I think I’ve waited long enough for Charley – what say all of you ❓

  13. Obama, Acorn, Ayers, and the Economy…. Bill Ayers has a blog that I came across…check it out. http://billayers.wordpress.com/
    There are post archived for a couple years. It does not sound like he is reformed.I am at a complete loss regarding this election and the future of my family and my country. This economic crisis is the perfect set up for someone like Obama and his friends to come into office and completely take over. History tells us this. Look at all the dictators worldwide and in the past and you will see. The countries they took control of were all in an economic crisis. They were ripe for some strong personality to come in and peck away at the core of the country’s heart… it’s people. Is there anything that can be done to stop it?

  14. “The reason Democrats don’t have a problem with Ayres is that he just tried to blow up people, generically.”

    No joke, people have actually used the excuse that the guy he seriously injured was “just a janitor.” If he’d blown up his own mansion, then he’d be recognized as a criminal. But who cares about the janitor? Like Palin, he didn’t go to an Ivy League school.

  15. Thanks, Prolix! I didn’t know they tried to walk it back. Do you have a link? Or do you remember who the spokesman was?

  16. A lot of cops were killed too. And lots of damage to property.

  17. Be sure to watch the video. It’s powerful.

  18. I look at all this from the other side. BZero was so cautious his entire life about everything, not writing anything for the law journal, joining the “right” church to network, cultivating the “right” friends, but then he found himself associating with Ayers. Why? Why Rezko? BZero is a guy who weighes everything in a cost/benefit analysis — he knew the costs associated with his decisions, so the benefits must have been overly attractive. That is the question needing an answer.

  19. BB, I’ll go hunting for a link, be right back.

  20. Valhalla:

    I was 9 when Charlie Manson and his family were doing their thing.

    BTW – Charlie never killed anyone, he wasn’t even present at the killings.

    Neither was Ayers

    But under the felony murder rule and the laws of conspiracy, everyone who participates in making bombs is guilty of murder if someone dies from a bomb explosion, even if it is one of the gang.

    Or three of them, including Ayers main squeeze (Dohrn was not his original girlfriend in the Weathermen)

  21. Masslib harshed my mellow

    I could smell the Kool-aid on her breath.

  22. Valhalla,

    Yes, long before she turned on any form of PUMA, Jeralyn revealed herself to be a total flake in a number of ways, and her treatment of Ayers would be a paradigm case of her incoherent morality.

    Really, even if you’re a defense attorney, you should understand that rehabilitation requires, at bare minimum, some form of remorse for pernicious acts you committed.

    How hard is that point to grasp? Yet people would make it on TalkLeft, and there would never be an answer.

    Really, TalkLeft became in the end one of the emptiest and most pointless of intellectual and political experiences. Basic arguments were never answered; cogent commentary was routinely deleted; childish, emotional accusations were the staple of both Jeralyn and BTD.

  23. Prolix,

    Obama wasn’t being “careful.” He just can’t write. The theory that Bill Ayers ghosted his book makes total sense to me.

  24. myiq2xu, on October 11th, 2008 at 12:30 am Said:
    Masslib harshed my mellow
    I could smell the Kool-aid on her breath.

    LOL. I already wrote a message to Masslib in the previous thread. I really hope she lays off the kool-aid before coming back to convince us that Obama’s gonna win and there is nothing we can do and Republicans are evil! again. And I hope Alegre controls Masslib before she destroys the safe haven Alegre has created for Clinton supporters over at Alegre’s Corner. Sad to see a few Clinton turned Obamabots tear us apart.

  25. BB

    2-0 Red Sox.

    Isn’t it remarkable how every questionable issue regarding Obama’s character and “judgement” is being dubbed a “distraction”.

    Since when do people running for office, especially for POTUS stand in a vacuum?

  26. Did somebody delete masslib’s comments? I looked and I don’t see any. Did she get the tr*ll treatment? Will you be doing any creative editing, myiq? I may have to stick around.

  27. knew the costs associated with his decisions, so the benefits must have been overly attractive. That is the question needing an answer.

    I agree. It could also mean that he knew Ayers well before than he is letting on. Same goes for Rezko.

  28. Don’t be too hard on masslib. I think she just needs certainty in an uncertain world. I have no problem with just waiting to see what happens and deciding my vote on election day. But some people need to commit to something in order to feel “safe.” As long as she doesn’t push BO, masslib is welcome on my posts. But we don’t permit campaigning for Obama here. That’s the number one rule in my book.

  29. And of course it becomes all the more absurd for Obama to claim that he had assumed that Ayers was rehabilitated when Michelle Obama had worked with Ayers wife — who is, presumably likewise unrepentant. Does anybody really believe that who and what the Ayers family were and stood for was not an active topic of discussion in the Obama household?

  30. pm317,

    I’m convinced that Obama met Ayers at Columbia and that Ayers is the one who steered Obama to Chicago. I can’t prove it yet, but it’s the only explanation for all this that makes any sense to me.

  31. BB,

    Here you go, I saw it on Politico via Tapper:


    The Obama campaign quickly steps back from Obama’s candor yesterday, in which he said he’s sat on a board with Ayers because he assumed from his stature in Chicago that he’d been “rehabilitated:”

    Obama spox Bill Burton says of Obama’s comment that he thought Ayers had been “rehabilitated”:

    “Senator Obama was referring to his education work but he of course does not believe that work absolves him of the despicable acts that he committed 40 years ago.”

    (Via Tapper. Of course. Who else uses “spox”?)

  32. MABlue,

    That’s great! I was afraid the Sox would go down quickly to Tampa Bay. They never seem to do very well against them in the regular season. I guess experience counts.

  33. Thanks, Prolix!

  34. BB, I think he heard of Ayers (may be the father first) from Frank Marshall Davis during his Hawaii days. Davis ran away from Chicago to hide in Hawaii. I think Davis may have been the first reason for Chicago.

  35. frankly0, on October 11th, 2008 at 12:31 am

    AGREED! I don’t even need to go over there anymore because I already can guess what I’d find there: Troopergate from Jeralyn and Obama’s Going to Win Without a Doubt! from BTD. These two have become total jokes. I’m so glad they’ve lost traffic and commenters on their site.

  36. I, too, worry sometimes that this “election” is already decided, but then I think, maybe some powers that be, JUST want us to think that, so we won’t bother to vote if we think that our vote won’t matter. So then, I am more determined to vote and call their bluff.

    In regard to all the “questionable” associations that Obama has-the Obama argument has been that we are trying to prove guilt by association. On Fox, (yes, I’ve been reduced to watching Fox for ANY semblence of “fair and balanced news!), they have a new term for what we are doing by highlighting these associations, they now defend against the “guilt” charge by calling it “illumination by association”. I like it!

    One more added note. When I was listening to McCain defend Obama at his Town Hall session today, I was of two minds. Part of me thought, someone is threatening McCain for speaking out about these associations and we are being told to sit down and shut up! This scenerio is so frightening to me that my mind immediately came up with another explanation. That McCain is covering his a_ _ by planting people to say those kinds of things, so he can say that he has defended Obama and not allowed people at his events to get away with that kind of behavior. I can only hope there is a valid reason for it.

    I can’t believe I am defending what I would have called character assasination in the past, but through research of my own, I know what is being said is valid and needs to be discussed.

    Heaven help us.

  37. Do Bill Burton’s comments make any sense at all?

  38. Hi all,

    I just want to knkow how it is that Ayers and Dohrn can get “respectable” and even influential jobs after being the leaders of the UW and after being actively engaged in acts of terrorism against the US? Two years ago, my son was arrested for a felony committed against some “gang members” in an eastern Illinois town while he was, in reality, in Iowa. Despite having nothing but the word of gang members, and despite proof that he was not even in Illinois at that time, he had to go to trial!! and after finally being found innocent and wrongly accused, he was unable to get a job in the local fire department due to his (wrongful) arrest.

    I am infuriated when I read about these criminals and their jobs and their influence and their “position” in Chicago circles.

    Steam is simply pouring out every orifice of mine right now.

  39. Seriously–no. Who’s the other one, the annoying chick who’s always saying, ” you need to check the facts”? I want to slap her mug.

  40. Leslie,

    Ayers and Dohrn (and other Weathermen) come from wealthy families. The rich get a better form of “justice” than the rest of us.

  41. It makes me ill when I smell the fetid stench of sugary swamp bilge oozing from some Kool-aid slurper’s pores.

    I think it’s the rotting odor of decaying brain cells wafting out with every hot exhalation.

    I’d rather french-kiss a zombie.

  42. Prolix,

    I added an update and gave you credit. Thanks! What Burton said made no sense whatsoever. He must have been taken by surprise. Of course no one can tell the messiah he made a boo boo. They just have to try to clean up the mess. Another resemblance to GW Bush.

  43. “In regard to all the “questionable” associations that Obama has-the Obama argument has been that we are trying to prove guilt by association.”

    It’s not guilt by association so much as it is stupidity. On what planet does the buddy of the guy who likes to plant bombs become President? Nobody thinks that Obama is a terrorist, but it shows piss poor judgment to be hanging with these questionable characters and not think anyone in America is going to have a problem with it. It’s ridiculous that it’s even as issue that this is an issue. This isn’t some guy who was a protestor, it’s a guy who bombed buildings. There are a few things that the American people have problems with, and one of them, coincidentally, is bombings–pretty much everyone agrees that that’s a bad idea.

    Anybody else would be over and out just on this alone.

  44. bostonboomer-

    Right now Obama seems to be coated in teflon, like his idol Ronald Reagan was. Reagan could have strangled someone on national TV and the media would have chuckled about what a character Ronnie was.

    Exactly 😦

    Even the recent SNL Spoof of the Town Hall debate had the Obama *character* saying:

    “….My friend and my mentor, unrepentant terrorist, Williams Ayers. Now, I’m telling you this because I’m so far ahead in the polls right now, it’s not going to matter.”


    (Fast forward to the 4.25 minute mark)

  45. “I was sitting on this board with a whole bunch of conservative businessmen and civic leaders, and he [Ayers] was one of the people who was on this board. And he lives in the same neighborhood.” (O’s newest excuse.)

    Wasn’t this work awhile ago, and didn’t the Obamas only recently purchase the mansion in Ayer’s neighborhood?

    Also, he keeps trying to tie Annenberg into this. Annenberg merely provided the original funding for this non-profit (and many others). He had nothing to do with the actual dispensing of the money.

    btw, I just thought that McCain was being polite when he ‘defended’ Obama at the Town Hall. More than O deserves, considering how he and his followers have treated anyone who doesn’t follow him.

  46. “just a janitor.”

    This is sick. I’ve never heard anyone say this. Who did and when?

  47. Seriously,

    Even more troubling is that on the two boards Obama and Ayers served on, they gave a lot of money to questionable groups–including ACORN. How is ACORN related to education reform?

  48. bb ~
    And they also get to pick our presidents, I guess.

    I want to be wrong about bo. I was wrong about Edwards, maybe I’m wrong about obama.

    I’m reading “Shock Doctrine” and this economic shock and awe that we – and the rest of the world are currently experiencing, is bone chilling to me. iI is indeed, the perfect storm for dictatorship and facsist take overs.

  49. There is a real irony in much of the hysteria over “fear-mongering” with respect to Ayers and Wright.

    People argue that it’s wrong to bring up associates like Ayers and Wright with such ugly traits and actions because those traits and actions are “incendiary”.

    It’s as if speaking of those associates is viciously unfair precisely because what they have done is so vile. But the problem is that what they have done is relevant to assessing Obama’s character and judgment exactly to the extent that these associates are vile. The worse they are, the more relevant they should be, not the less.

    The absurd argument that reasonable people can’t bring up the subject because it is “incendiary” refuses to acknowledge that it is precisely because what these associates have done is “incendiary” that Obama has something he must answer for. If they weren’t “incendiary”, why should anybody care whether Obama associated with them?

  50. Irlandese, Hilary Rosen?

  51. Unfortunately, McCain is being played the same way Hillary was. He doesn’t want to be called a racist and he believed in the collegiality of the Senate. Obama doesn’t give a damn about collegiality. He’s a thug, and McCain had better wake up to that fact.

  52. Ayers didn’t just “serve” on those boards.

    His family’s money was what created them in the first place.

  53. katiebird, I forget the details, but I read it on here somewhere.

  54. Also –
    these associations would disqualify Obama from the security clearance required for many government jobs – but not for President!

  55. myiq2xu,

    After reading your comment, I’m afraid I’ll have nightmares tonight. The koolaid is powerful and the Obama trolls are icky, I agree. I have a bit of a soft spot for masslib, if that is who you are referring to. But I’ll delete her if she shills for The One.

  56. Fran~

    I believe Ayers and Obama lived in the same neighborhood until the Obamas bought a home with their good friends associates the Rezkos.
    I just read something yesterday or the day before about something Ayers wrote several years ago saying they were neighbors. I’ll have to look it up, but there is definitely a link.

  57. (Not that anyone here said it, but that they quoted it as being said somewhere else)

  58. Leslie,

    Obama and Ayers still live a few houses away from each other. And Farrakhan lives right near both of them. Quite an interesting neighborhood.

  59. We are going to pass 3.5 million hits very soon.

  60. bb,
    I know they are all still neighbors. Obama wasn’t about to leave that neighborhood. (It is quite beautiful – even though it is quite tainted.)

    and frankly, none of them deserve that beauty after serving their fellow citizens so heinously.

  61. We might hit 4 million by Election Day. Congrats to everyone who contributes to this site! It’s been a wild year!

  62. bostonboomer, on October 11th, 2008 at 1:04 am Said:
    Unfortunately, McCain is being played the same way Hillary was. He doesn’t want to be called a racist and he believed in the collegiality of the Senate. Obama doesn’t give a damn about collegiality. He’s a thug, and McCain had better wake up to that fact.

    if anyone doubts he’s a thug, go back to his comments to his supporters telling them to “get in their faces” about needing to support BO.

    the wife and i are away for the wknd, so i grabbed a couple dvd to play on the laptop in case there’s nothing on the idiot box. one was “The Manchurian Candidate”

  63. Battlecat — Scarey indeed.

  64. What I was wondering is – Obama is trying to say that Ayers is just a guy in the neighborhood. Well, he is now, but were they in the same neighborhood back then? Obama often shifts his timelines around to suit his story.

    I personally think they were introduced long before. Why did Obama go to Chicago in the first place? He had no apparent ties there. He went there to work at a low level job with his degree and never having lived there? It does not make sense on the surface.

  65. I live in Philadelphia and often listen to the radio show of Michael Smerconish (the guy who did the interview you mentioned). Smerconish is a long time conservative, but he’s been moving left recently (pretty much since the catastrophe of Bush 43).

    His main issue is the war on terror and the question of why we took our eyes off the ball where finding Bin Laden is concerned. The last time Smerconish interviewed Obama, they found common ground on this issue and after that interview, it was pretty obvious that Smerconish had imbibed some of that tasty Obama Koolaid.

    I guess the reason I bring this up is that by allowing Smerconish to interview him again, Obama was actually entering pretty friendly territory. Yes, the Ayers questions were asked, but the followups and probing was non-existent. I hope he paid the radio station money lots of money to spout off all his campaign points.

  66. …and no one around him thought to whisper in his ear.

  67. Next time Obama tells a reporter I was 8 years old when Ayers was blowing people and buildings up. The follow up question should be were you living in the United states at the time?

  68. Does anyone have a link for the military style drill?

  69. Thanks Seriously — I must have missed the original comment.

    I just don’t understand the people (and I’m closely related to some of them) who think the Associations issue is unimportant. It was the first thing I hated about Obama and I guess it’s going to be the last thing too.

  70. I officially announce that Barack Obama is this year’s winner of the Golden Enema award. Because he is completely full of shit.

    I’m quite certain that Obama had the thought that he was 8 years old when Ayers was starting his terrorism. Sure. Right, Obarky. I find it hard to believe that anyone with an ounce of sense would buy into his donkeyshit.

    I remember well how the efforts of the Weather Underground destroyed the credibility of the peaceful demonstrations against Vietnam and the love/peace/understanding/acceptance movement so many of us were trying to bring about. They used the excuse of Vietnam to justify their terrorism when the record of history clearly demonstrates that they bombed for all kinds of reasons.

    Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn are enemies of America. Just like their favorite son and comrade in arms, Barack Hussein Obama.

  71. Melissa – yeah. Even O’Reilly softened up on Obama after he interviewed him. What is up with these guys?

  72. Ayers father’s money is what prevented Bill from experiencing any kind of “rehabilitation”. What a hypocrite. And this was the guy telling us to “take it home and kill your parents”? What happened, getting limo-ed to the mansion is so much more revolutionary than getting limo-ed to a park bench.

  73. Okay, I found the post on insightanalytical that mentions the book Ayers wrote in 1998. That was way before Obama bought the house. That happened last year, I believe. But in this book Ayers mentions Farrakhan, Eugene Sawyer, Muhammed Ali, etc as neighbors. That was quite a while ago. Ali hasn’t lived in Chicago for some time iirc.

    Obama and Ayers have “known” each other years and years.

    I don’t know how to make a link work here. But i’ll paste the url and you can paste it into your browser:


  74. Of course Ayers came from a rich family ! Bin Laden came from the richest, non royalty family in Saudi Arabia! Workaday people don’t have the time or inclination to agitate or start a revolution.

    Just like the great senator from IL stands peering down his nose with his chin in the air.He judges distantly all the actions of others.He is detached,smooth ,untouchable because he doesn’t commit to any one way.Consequently people imprint him with their hopes.McCain has a lifetime of experience and the scars to prove it. People seem to want to take a chance this time. I’m not wishing for it and want the experience narrative to win out. It is true when people throughout history have been afraid the’ve let ascend to power very strong, controlling leaders. There can be good to come from such leadership but there can also be tyranny. We just do not have a crystal ball.

    I remember when Bill Clinton said during the primaries “since when did experience become a bad thing”? Even he is mum while his party is heading in a completely different direction than the course it was on under his leadership.

  75. Leslie – Yes. That is my point. They knew each other, and it is not just because they happen to live in the same neighborhood now.

  76. Ayres’ wife’s also a big fan of the Manson family and apparently gave some famous speech where she referred to the victims as “pigs” and thought some gruesome details of the murders were “far out.”

    I mean, once again, hello? It’s okay to be friends with people who made fashionable fashion choices in the 60’s, but people with political ambitions probably want to stay away from anyone who publicly praises mass murderers–it doesn’t look so good for your judgment. Once again, not a grey area.

  77. pagapower – I agree. The Weathermen destroyed the peace movement. I cannot comprehend their goals. (I was in college in the 60s.)

    “Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn are enemies of America. Just like their favorite son and comrade in arms, Barack Hussein Obama.” ….. It is interesting that Obama, who was essentially fatherless, seems always to be searching for father figures. He may be like a son to them. Like he was the Rev. Wright. These people seem to know how to tap into that need of Obama and use it to their advantage.

  78. You know when hiring someone, there are generally four main things to examine: resume, references, record, and interview. An election campaign is the interview portion of the hiring process and frankly isn’t very helpful, because people tell you just what they think you want to hear. Obama is doing a heck of an interview with the American people.

    The resume is just plainly the jobs they’ve had and background. Obama’s resume is razor thin.

    The record is actually looking at their deeds done. If the interview rhetoric doesn’t match the record, you can be sure the person is lying in the interview and won’t do nearly what they say. Obama doesn’t have any record matching what he’s promising to do.

    The last piece is the references; who a person has associated with. I think if Obama only happened to know one shady character, it could be overlooked. However it seems like everyone he knows is shady, and let’s be honest, Ayers is a terrorist, a violent, unrepentant, terrorist who inflicted intentional harm on innocent people for political purposes. I don’t really care much what he’s done since then, though as a Xian, I am firmly in the pro-forgiveness camp, but c’mon, a terrorist?? Obama’s references are horrible, his resume is thin and his record is nonexistent, but boy can he run his mouth!

  79. Fran – you wrote: “These people seem to know how to tap into that need of Obama and use it to their advantage.”

    That is just why I am so fearful. And that is something I thought about this morning while I was reading “The Shock Doctrine:” It is how the financial “geniuses” led people like Suharto in Indonesia around “teaching him” how to sell out his nation to any bidder.

    I don’t like how Indonesia turned out. or Chile. or al ot of other nations whose leaders were uneducated about economics and who allowed really bad decisions to be made that ultimately ruined their nations for the people who live there.

  80. I have lots of backstory, BostonB on Ayers at my place — (they go back a long way to a law firm where Mrs O & Mrs Dorhn (Ayer’s wife worked in 1988) —
    He hopes to fool a younger gen who can’t remember — I was a kid during the whole Tate/Symbionese Lib era — but like Miqz2xu –same CA ref points to that whole gig they all pulled off.
    As for O I found evidence of his r*cisism — the story links are indepth reads from real sources. Also, Acorn/Woods Fund related.
    After what they pulled on us as Hillary supporters — to see what I found? He has lied to America about his ideology and ties.
    Very problematic.
    My sense is that this is why McC is bringing it up.

    Also I agree with battlecat above on the $$$$$$
    Problematic, and Soros connection too given what just happened economically — he came out of nowhere — but not really when you see.

    Sure wish we had the Clintons.
    McC isn’t lying.

  81. Ayres’ wife’s also a big fan of the Manson family and apparently gave some famous speech where she referred to the victims as “pigs” and thought some gruesome details of the murders were “far out.”

    Seriously, are you being extra-witty tonight and pulling my leg?

  82. So…we have the choice between a guy who knows domestic terrorists turned college professors to promote “education” (hey, what else would you do if you were a radical who wanted to “change the world” and somehow got off after commiting violent acts? can’t go back to setting bombs…might as well bomb the mind), and a guy who took family vacations with a man who knowingly used his influence for his own extreme gain at the expense of others, and their choices for VP who were associated with a party that wants to see Alaska secede from the union because they have “no use for her damned institutions”, and…well, I still haven’t seen anything that bad about Biden around. Anyone got anything? The worst thing seems to be he has a severe case of foot in mouth, but I can’t seem to find much else. Has he just been a democratic senator for so long that the media don’t even want to go near him?

    Point is though…what the hell has happened here? I don’t know what to believe anymore…it’s a sad, sad state of affairs. I’d rather vote for Ellen Degeneres than any of these guys. Most I can do at this point, personally, is hope that it’s all just conjecture and speculation…’cause if it’s not, we’ve got the devil and the devil’s advocate running on all sides. Nu bueno.

  83. You are perfectly wecome to moderate any comments of mine of which I have made few. A poster commented about Ayer’s station in life and how that enabled him, perhaps, to escape legal consequences for his actions. I then said that Bin Laden was from a wealthy family, as well. Also to be frank many 9/11 perpetrators were from the wealthy class. I then said what is my view that historically in trying times (of which this has been rivalled only by the depression of 1929), very strong and controlling leaders have often been sought .Yes, in some instances leaders were tyrannical. I am not asserting one candidate WILL be thus but rather that without a crystal ball we do not know what his leadership will be.

    Do you think , if past is prologue, that moving pledged delegates(2,000) garnered from legitimate votes is indicative of a transparent, democratic bent? Do you think having talking points blanketed to all the major media outlets with words such as “erratic,divisive,mindless populism’ shows an investment in a free press? Where you announce a 30 minute! ad buy for 6 days before the election on the very network where the last debate’s moderator is the senior news guy?

    Isn’t that the point that voters do not know because the press is short-circuiting us in our attempt to be informed?

  84. Hey Chris–aren’t you the one voting for the Colbert/Hilton ticket ?
    {{{{myiqx2…..paging paging}}}}

  85. Ellen Degeneres? What happened to Parise Hilton?

  86. myiq! What Irlandese said!

  87. Dang it–where’d he go??? I’m psychic I swear–I just said something upthread about hanging around to see some fun “creative editing”! How did I know Chrissyboy would show??? E.S.P.

  88. Britannia–no. I read that here and just googled it to make sure it’s true–it is. Ayres claims that he wife was being “ironic,” but other audience members say she was deadly serious.

    Quite a pair of cards, those two.

  89. Here’s the latest on the Berg v. Obama filing:

    Click to access 0.pdf

  90. “I thought he had been rehabilitated”. “I never heard Rev. Wright say those things.” I don’t know Obie’s quote on Rezko but I”m sure it’s similar.

    If this guy is that freakin’ clueless he doesn’t need to be anywhere near the White House!

  91. That’s just sick, Seriously.

  92. Irony or not, that is one sick f-ing thing to say. I’d take Sarah and Todd taking out the tasering uncle over an unrepentant psycho any day. Bet Benardine wouldn’t like to meet the Palins on a cold road in Alaska.

  93. Sigh. I wish somebody – somebody – would talk about the virtues of divided government. I realize that the party candidates can’t, but it’s pretty damn evident that the senate will go Dem big-time and we need checks and balances in this country.

    Hubby is violating our no-politics zone by gloating that the GOP will be marginalized for decades after Bush-Cheney. I used to think that was a good thing. Not any more.

    This election cycle has really shaken me. I am not longer an intellectually lazy, knee-jerk democrat. Thanks in large part to you all. I can’t express how much I appreciate the political commentary here. No matter what happens, I hope we’ll still be around for each other.

    On that note, good night to all.

  94. “An intellectually lazy knee-jerk Democrat”. Beautifully put, betuscha. One reformed ILKJD here.

  95. LOL Sarah and Todd can be the legal version of–what’s that awful Charles Bronson vigilante movie? Instead of killing violent people, they can go around getting them removed from their government jobs, confiscating their weapons, and having their government pensions revoked. We’ll give them a winnebago and a camera and let them go, somebody else can preside over the Senate.

  96. Eh, the troopergate story is already gone from the CNN headline. That didn’t take long. The current headline is: “Report: U.S. to take N. Korea off terror list”

  97. “Sigh. I wish somebody – somebody – would talk about the virtues of divided government…”

    Well, under one party rule Pelosi, Reid and Obama, in no particular order, get pretty much what they want. Which is about as close to a definition of pure evil as humanly possible.

    And you may want to invest in some nice work clothes, given the following…

    “Barack will require you to work.”
    –Michelle Obama

  98. Currently trying to read through Ayers blog to see if there’s anything in it to add to the story. Pedantic to the nth degree is all I’ve found so far. Anyone tried looking through it for usable support to arguments yet? If so, is there anywhere they’ve been collected? I’m reading through the April 2006 “Weather Underground Redux” post right now. So far, seems like he does a great job of saying a lot that means nothing, never really allowing anything he says to hold it to anything else.

    The paragraphs about the bombing of the police station are a great example – he never denies involvement, but never says more than that they “were in communication”, poetically suggesting that they didn’t plant the bombs, just used their eloquence to take credit. I have to admit…as a writer, he’s good. But there’s a lot of people in radical movements who are, so that’s not really too surprising. Hard to find anything that means much in there so far…and I don’t know if I can honestly make it through all of his posts to try and find anything new to add to the story from it. Any help?

  99. “This election cycle has really shaken me. I am not longer an intellectually lazy, knee-jerk democrat. Thanks in large part to you all. I can’t express how much I appreciate the political commentary here. No matter what happens, I hope we’ll still be around for each other.”

    betuscha, I think most of the people here feel the same way. We are Democrats in exile. Folks who used to vote straight-party Democrat. Until this election I didn’t understand how anyone could vote for a Republican. Last week I sent in my absentee ballot for McCain/Palin and I didn’t feel bad about it. I’m sure the Obamabots will call us racists instead of even looking at themselves and how they have contributed to this mess.

    Obama might win but he has fractured the party and his supporters have created irreparable damage. We have figured out that Democrats can be just as nasty if not worse than Republicans. Thousands of women were awakened to the sexism we had no idea existed in our own party. Some of us have even decided that voting for a Republican would be better than having the current Democratic nominee and his entourage in charge.

    Do you know what this means? It means that some of the people on this site will probably tolerate voting for a Republican again. Turning loyal Democrats who never could imagine voting for a Republican into McCain fans and Independents is damage that cannot be repaired in my opinion. They have lost our trust and I doubt that they will be able to earn my trust back. Not with an Obama presidency and Dean and Pelosi in charge. The Democrats will celebrate if Obama wins but I expect a ton of trouble for the Democratic Party in the near future regardless of who becomes our next President. The rift that occurred in the primaries is still there even if some Clintonites reluctantly vote for Obama. We will see it appear again in 2010 and 2012.

  100. Death Wish?

    I think Palin has made quite a few political enemies, dems and repubs both, while governor.

  101. Michelle sounds more and more like Frau from those Austin Powers movies.

  102. “This election cycle has really shaken me. I am not longer an intellectually lazy, knee-jerk democrat. Thanks in large part to you all. I can’t express how much I appreciate the political commentary here. No matter what happens, I hope we’ll still be around for each other.”

    betuscha, I think most of the people here feel the same way. We are Democrats in exile. Folks who used to vote straight-party Democrat. Until this election I didn’t understand how anyone could vote for a Republican. Last week I sent in my absentee ballot for McCain/Palin and I didn’t feel bad about it. I’m sure the Obamabots will call us r*acists instead of even looking at themselves and how they have contributed to this mess.

    Obama might win but he has fractured the party and his supporters have created irreparable damage. We have figured out that Democrats can be just as nasty if not worse than Republicans. Thousands of women were awakened to the sexism we had no idea existed in our own party. Some of us have even decided that voting for a Republican would be better than having the current Democratic nominee and his entourage in charge.

    Do you know what this means? It means that some of the people on this site will probably tolerate voting for a Republican again. Turning loyal Democrats who never could imagine voting for a Republican into McCain fans and Independents is damage that cannot be repaired in my opinion. They have lost our trust and I doubt that they will be able to earn my trust back. Not with an Obama presidency and Dean and Pelosi in charge. The Democrats will celebrate if Obama wins but I expect a ton of trouble for the Democratic Party in the near future regardless of who becomes our next President. The rift that occurred in the primaries is still there even if some Clintonites reluctantly vote for Obama. We will see it appear again in 2010 and 2012.

  103. The worst part about that damned report on Palin is that she did tell Todd to stop. He testified to that. He refused to stop. The report is Partisan and dishonest.

    Who the hell is running this lemonade stand? The inmates are in control of the prison.

  104. DV–what you see as irreparable damage I see as the key out of the gilded cage. I’m now free of partisan blinders and will never let a political party foist another BO on me. I’ll never be intellectually lazy again. There is simply too much at stake. I’ll never take my vote for granted again.

  105. Draft version of National Intelligence Estimate on Afghanistan says the country is in chaos, the Karzai government is losing control, everything in a downward spiral. Many government agencies now preparing similar reports. Good thing we’ve got congress–with their Democratic majority–in on the action, like that Afghanistan subcommittee with, who is it, some guy named Obama….


    If this BO becomes president, can we expect his work on the economy to be just like his work on Afghanistan? I hate to say this, but…. It’s the economy, stupid –again. How DOES he do his homework?

  106. Do you know what this means? It means that some of the people on this site will probably tolerate voting for a Republican again. Turning loyal Democrats who never could imagine voting for a Republican into McCain fans and Independents is damage that cannot be repaired in my opinion.

    I can’t say I see a bunch of us becoming Republicans, but as long as Dean, Pelosi, Obama and Brazile are in charge, I can see some of us changing to not-affiliated or Independent.

    If Obie is Prez, the 2010 elections will be interesting to watch.

  107. And since I don’t think it’s been said here yet:

    “Happy 33rd Anniversary, Bill & Hillary!”

    May you have many many more more years to shine your light on each other and the rest of us.

  108. The worst part about that damned report on Palin is that she did tell Todd to stop. He testified to that. He refused to stop.

    Is this in the report? I’ve browsed through the report but have not read all of it.

  109. Hay y’all!

  110. “The worst part about that damned report on Palin is that she did tell Todd to stop. He testified to that. He refused to stop.”

    Cue Michelle, “if she can’t run her own house, how’s she going to run the White House?”

    She should have threatened him with tazering if he wouldn’t stop. 🙂

  111. Brit: Don’t know, should be. Isn’t it like 400 pages? I haven’t read it all either.

  112. It is so late… I need to say good night.
    and thank you to everyone who is making this former democrat feel normal.

  113. Having said that, I’ll be a social liberal until the day I die. I want separation of church and state, I want universal healthcare, and I want LGBT’s to be free to marry and raise families. I still don’t like anybody telling me what I can do or not do. And I will be forever a Clinton Democrat in my heart. For now, an Indie. So there.

  114. Uh clean up on aisle 2:29!!!!!

  115. I don’t think I’ll ever vote for a Republican again–but then again, I can’t say with certainty I won’t, because if it’s yet another Frat Boy Dem, then I might have to. I’m not doing anything to put misogynist disenfranchising scum in control of this party. But what’s fr sure is that my vote is no longer default Dem. Then will need to do a hell of a lot affirmatively to earn my vote, they’re breathing and not R’s is no longer enough.

  116. The quote I saw from the report said that Sarah asked Todd to “stop talking about it.” Haven’t read the report to see if that’s in there myself…and unfortunately, Command-F find doesn’t work on PDFs that open in Mac’s web browser, so searching for it ain’t gonna happen here…anyone got a version of the doc that’s searchable?

  117. Well, from what I’ve read, there is nothing in the report which said Sarah told Todd to stop. This is, in fact, the meat of the abuse of power accusation.

    I think Todd was trying to be a good citizen by keeping Wooten out of commission. I think that, AT MOST, this would constitute bad judgement on Todd’s part (because of how his actions could be seen as pressure coming from the governor), but not abuse of power. But the scope of the report does not include judgments on Todd, only Sarah.

  118. It doesn’t matter, this is a political loser. If the Obamacrats want to take a stand in favor of keeping domestic abuser, violent cops on the job with state issued weapons, let them try.

  119. I won’t vote for corruption and dirty politics. Ever. Simple as that. I loathe hypocrisy. Deceit is cowardly, and I’m not a coward.
    Brittania–I’m sure if they had chosen to do nothing, they’d be portrayed as “do-nothings” with no family loyalty and their judgment would still be questioned. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I just won’t play along anymore.

  120. From what I’ve read, reports say that that, according to sworn affidavits from Todd released in the document:

    “He said: “I had hundreds of conversations and communications about Trooper Wooten over the last several years with my family, with friends, with colleagues and with just about everyone I could – including government officials.”

    “I talked about Wooten so much over the years that my wife told me to stop talking about it with her.”

    Not exactly all that damning to either side, really…but easily taken out of context to support either bias.

  121. But like I said…I haven’t read it, and can’t search the doc itself…so who knows how in or out of context those statements are. Most of the MSM is reporting that statement, including foreign press…but haven’t read it, so I won’t say it’s true.

  122. ‘I’m sure if they had chosen to do nothing, they’d be portrayed as “do-nothings” with no family loyalty and their judgment would still be questioned”

    Or god forbid, the man ended up killing someone inside or outside of their family, it would be “Governor Gives family member With Long Violent History a Free Pass! He Tazed a Ten Year Old–She Did Nothing!” She’s responsible for public safety and if she hadn’t done anything, it would look like she was the one coddling him, not the corrupt culture.

  123. I despise Obama as much as anyone else here, and pigs will sprout wings and soar over the frozen plains of Hell before I vote for Plastic Jesus, but could we calm down, please?

    I suspect Obama is a neocon machine politician who learned to sport a veneer of cultural radicalism that would help him with his original constituents. If he becomes prez, he will do the bidding of Big Business, especially the Wall Street firms who OWN his bony ass. Ayers and his ilk will go under the bus with Rev. GDA if need be.

    Even if Obummer actually DOES want to be a dictator, one needs the support of the police and military forces to establish and maintain a dictatorship.

    In the USA, those forces are staffed predominantly by members of the white working classes–the same people Obama sneers at when he thinks they’re not paying attention. If you can imagine those folks turning against their fellow citizens on the orders of a Whole Foods Nation snob, your Imagination Fu is stronger than mine. 😉

    IF he wins, it’ll be fun dissecting his blunders and foibles while preparing for the Great Backlash Elections of 2010 and 2012.

  124. It doesn’t matter, this is a political loser. If the Obamacrats want to take a stand in favor of keeping domestic abuser, violent cops on the job with state issued weapons, let them try.

    I can always count on you to get to the heart of the matter.

    Agreed. As it is, the case against Palin is pretty weak.

  125. Anybody who would taser a 10-year old unarmed family member has no business bearing a gun and a badge. Period.

  126. larlandese, I see the Republican Party becoming more Libertarian in the future which could definitely turn a lot of people here into Republicans. The Repubs know now that they are losing on being anti-choice and homophobes. I heard from a classmate of mine that the Republicans are becoming much more gay friendly and had many more gays and lesbians at this year’s convention? I am not positive of this since I wasn’t paying much attention to the Republican convention. All of us probably know a few Libertarians. It is a growing wing of the Republican Party and represents younger people who have a lot more in common with fauxgressives and Obamabots than the Democrats want to admit. Most of the “conservatives” I knew in grad school were Libertarians. They can give a rat’s ass about what people do behind closed doors. They just don’t want to pay high taxes to the undeserving poor folk. I’ve met a lot of “liberals” who consider themselves Democrats who admit once you ask them about fiscal responsibility, that they are “okay” with electing a financial conservative as long as they don’t infringe on their rights. I predict this will be the future of the Republican Party. Maybe not anytime soon because the party still has a lot of crazies and traditional conservatives but their spawn will be more Libertarian.

  127. Why is Wooten still a trooper??? If he’s a domestic abusing violent cop, isn’t that more than justification for removal under numerous statutes? Seems to be a question that’s missing….

  128. “I suspect Obama is a neocon machine politician who learned to sport a veneer of cultural radicalism that would help him with his original constituents. If he becomes prez, he will do the bidding of Big Business, especially the Wall Street firms who OWN his bony ass”

    Oh, I agree. I’m not afraid because I think Obama will turn the keys of the WH over to the Weather Underground. I’m afraid because he’s be in pretty much the same position as Bush–control of Congress, worshipful media, and group of hardcore aggressive followers who will support him no matter what. And we all know how well that turned out. The difference is, many of the people who opposed Bush will now be unavailable, since they’ve become kool-ade drinkers, and whether it’s futher eroding civil liberties or starting another war, they’re going to go along as far as he wants to take them.

  129. Disenfranchised – as someone who was raised Republican and never had any problems with that until 2000 when I reregistered, I can kind of relate to the hopefulness that the Reps will move towards such ideals. Did you happen to see David Brooks’ article on the Republican party in the NY times yesterday where he stated his own feelings of disenfranchisement from the “Joe SIx Pack” class war based ideals the party has seemed to come to espouse compared to the ideals of intellectualism and importance of ideas and thought people like William F. Buckley and, he argues, Reagan believed in? An interesting perspective on the state of affairs of both parties.

  130. DV–very interesting. I did watch a fair amount of the RNC convention and they’re still clinging to the bible–closing prayers and all that. You’re right–I think ultimately there will be an emergence of a viable third party of people, Libertarian or not, who will be essentially centrists–gray area Dems/Repubs who are socially liberal but fiscally conservative. The R’s that I know for the most part are with the party simply because of their fiscal beliefs, and aren’t terribly concerned with what folks are doing behind closed doors. Not ONE of them believes that GWB was a good choice anymore.

  131. Why is Wooten still a trooper???

    From the report:

    The Administrative Investigation was concluded. On March 1, 2006 Trooper Wooten received written notice of the terms of his discipline. An appeal of the terms of the discipline was undertaken by Trooper Wooten with the assistance of his union, the Public Safety Employees Union [PSEA]. The appeal was settled on September 5, 2006. Trooper Wooten continued his employment as a Trooper.

    Apparently, Todd later tried to apply to re-open the investigation (the original complaint was filed by Sarah’s father, I think), but Monegan refused, saying there was nothing new and the case is closed.

    You should read the transcripts of the interviews in the investigations. It’s like the old boys’ club.

  132. kos had a lot of posts up about how libertarianism is the wave of the future, and how we need to attract libertarians. It might come down to a schism between FDR style Dems and libertarian Dems. But honestly, even you guys who fall on the more moderate,fiscally conservative side, do you really want to be associated with the blogger boy types? 🙂

  133. And really, while they’re definitely not FDR style Dems, they’re not really libertarians, either, on the social side. They’re not that happy with gays, they’re not that happy with choice…I don’t know what the hell they are, when it comes right down to it.

  134. They started Bill off with a Troppergate too….They will try to turn this into Palin’s white water, you know, the non story they dog you with?

    I believe Project Obama is about simply dismantling the government… I don’t believe his backers expect to create a successful dictatorship. They just want to smash up the political norms…and steal the loot . It’s real simple. A robber is not interested in taking over your store for long and running it. He just smashes and grabs… They certainly want to enrage the people because they want mayhem . As someone said up thread, it’s all laid out in Naomi Klein book, Shock Capitalism. Failure = success to them, because they want the failure of what has gone before…..like the form of government we have had for over 200 years.

    Oh and don’t forget you’re a rac**st if you protest any of it

  135. Britannia –

    It’s already on the reading list, which lately seems to be growing faster than I can re-order it! =o) There seem to have been more 100+ page documents released in the past few weeks of great importance than ever before. Still trying to finish getting through the bailout bill, but the report is next. I still don’t understand though…if I’m not mistaken, Monegan was replaced over a year ago by someone of Sarah’s choosing. If there was evidence to show that Wooten was a violent domestic abuser, but Monegan stonewalled a reopening of the investigation, why hasn’t his predecessor opened it? Did Sarah appoint a member of the same “old boys club”? Haven’t really done any kind of in depth research on this one yet, which is why I’m asking. Just seems like there’s more here than meets the eye. Are Alaskan politics so corrupted that a state trooper can continue to be employed after tazing his child? I don’t know enough about the politics of the state to answer, personally, but it’s a question I’ve been wondering about.

  136. paper doll –

    are you speaking of Shock Doctrine? Also on my reading list…I’m currently 6th in line on the waiting list at the local library. Must admit I felt a tinge of optimism when I went to check it out and found out there was a waiting list…I’ve heard a lot of good things about it from people who I respect as very thoughtful individuals.

  137. Seriously, on October 11th, 2008 at 3:20 am Said:
    …I don’t know what the hell they are, when it comes right down to it.

    Obamacans lol!

  138. Seriously, despite voting for a Republican in this election, I am a FDR Democrat all the way which was part of the reasons why I couldn’t bring myself to vote for a faux Democrat like Obama. The Democratic Party has already begun to experience a schism between FDR Dems (Clinton) and libertarian Dems (Obama) though it is more complicated than that. You can also break it down into working class Dems who rely on social programs (Clinton) and educated arugula Dems who care about abortion rights but can still survive without universal health care (Obama).

    The Republicans might need a face lift but the Democrats will not survive if they continue down this road. Democrats are supposed to be the party of the working class. People vote Democrats in office to solve their economic problems when Republicans just want to take the spoils and hand them to the fat cats on Wall Street. What we are currently seeing in the Democratic Party is Republican Lite Dems like Obama and Pelosi who live in their San Fran and Hyde Park mansions, looking down on the masses and calling us r*acist, low information voters.

  139. How ironic. Ayres and friends would love to do more than fire an Alaskan trooper–they’d be the first to bomb him to hell and beyond! But Palin trying to get him fired for abusing his authority is “Troopergate”??? Ba-loney.

  140. The first step is rationalizing that an Obama Presidency wouldn’t be so bad.

    Then comes the “experimentation” with Kool-aid.

    Before you know it – brain eating zombie

  141. intelligentbydesign, on October 11th, 2008 at 3:26 am Said:
    paper doll –

    are you speaking of Shock Doctrine?

    Yes! Sorry I got the name wrong. What they are attempting is what was done with the Iraq’s war “reconstruction and the post Katrina no bid contracts …..now taken to the logical conclusion…here all over.

  142. DV–totally agree.

  143. continued from the post above…

    This is why you see the current schism within the Democratic Party. If it wasn’t for the financial meltdown, Obama would’ve likely lost to McCain. He can STILL lose to McCain. That just shows you how weak this guy’s support really is. Half of the Democratic Party doesn’t want him and the reasons are definitely more than just r*acism. It was the reason why Kerry lost in 2004. If Obama wins, it will be because people are so scared out of their minds about their economic future that they are hoping Obama can be the FDR Democrat to help them save their homes and jobs. Problem is Obama wants to be worshipped like Reagan and not hang out with the hillbillies and the bitter uneducated poor folk like Big Dog. When Obama doesn’t come through for these people who have reluctantly voted him into office (and I will bet money right now that his first term will be a failure) the Democrats will experience another stunning loss. The arugula Dems never learn. Being Republican Lite should not be the goal of the future Democratic Party.

  144. Disenfranchised –

    Quoting David Brooks here…

    “But over the past few decades, the Republican Party has driven away people who live in cities, in highly educated regions and on the coasts. This expulsion has had many causes. But the big one is this: Republican political tacticians decided to mobilize their coalition with a form of social class warfare. Democrats kept nominating coastal pointy-heads like Michael Dukakis so Republicans attacked coastal pointy-heads.”

    Gotta admit…the guy’s got a good point about both the coastal pointy heads, and the arguing against them. He further goes on to point out, however, that

    “What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. The liberals had coastal condescension, so the conservatives developed their own anti-elitism, with mirror-image categories and mirror-image resentments, but with the same corrosive effect.”

    He seems to suggest that both parties have done a great job of destroying intellectualism…one by claiming it and then corrupting it, the other by fighting the corrupters using tactics that ended up throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Seems a pretty fair assessment to me.

  145. It’s kind of like surviving in a raft in the ocean after the ship has sunk–after awhile, you start thinking you can drink the seawater. After that, you’re toast.

  146. I saw ” LBJ the early years ” today on TV…done in ’88. Excellent program. And it showed the friction between LBJ and the Kennedys was this split between the working class Dem and the Harvard ones …and of course it showed up earlier between Stevenson and Truman . It’s long running

  147. Irlandese, we can do one of those TV lawyer ads, “Are you a public official who has no business being a public official? Have you abused you trust? Well, call us…unfitness to serve is no impediment at all to us! We’re on your side!”

  148. Q: What’s the difference between an Obama supporter and a brain-eating zombie?

    A: Zombies use mouthwash

  149. Going to bed and I’ll be in PA tomorrow. Maybe I’ll see Hillary. Word is she’ll be in Scranton to campaign for the Chosen One. Have a great weekend everyone.

  150. paper doll –

    Can’t wait to read it! Like I said, I got a bit of a case of the warm fuzzies when I found out the local library had multiple copies, and there was a waiting list that was estimated at a month or more. A little disappointed I wasn’t able to get the book, but glad to see proof that at least some people still pay attention and aren’t afraid to read and think. Getting rid of cable TV has helped that, too…it’s amazing how much less I worry that society is turning into a group of mindless zombies now that the talking heads are gone.

  151. I think this melt down is happening now in order to help Obama win ( and get even more billions for W pals on his way out.) Everything real about it has been true for a long time, why melt down now? To help Barry.

  152. So is this where the short bus lets out?

  153. intelligentbydesign, the problem isn’t being a coastal pointy head so much as it is a) being a condescending jerk and b) thinking being a coastal pointy head is enough. Lots of Obots think that people should vote for O because they say so, and they’re educated. My thing is, well, if you’re educated, can’t you come up with one rational argument for this guy?

    I know lots of coastal pointy heads who favor O, I just don’t know any who can come up with reasons for supporting him, and it’s not because their argumets are so brilliant the rest of us can’t understand them. It’s because they don’t have any.

  154. Could anybody hang out here for months and go back to thinking that BO could be acceptable??? After everything that’s been posted here? Not a bunch of fluff opinion pieces–cold hard facts. I don’t get it.
    Seriously–“The Law Offices of Barack Obama–we’re on YOUR side! Corruption? No problem! Fraud? No problem! Collusion? Check out our testimonials from happy clients” *cues to Pelosi* “He got me $6 million!!” AAAaaayyyyy!

  155. Might be to help Obama win…although I must admit, I stil have a bit of fear that it’s happening so W can find some way of keeping himself in office. There’s an awful lot of earmarks being added on to a lot of these bills being passed that a lot of people (including a lot of our congresspeople, most likely) aren’t really reading…not that far out of the realm of possibility for some strange little piece of legislation that would allow GW Cheney to stay in power. A little conspiratorial I know…but as they say, it’s only conspiracy if it’s not true…and the next president won’t be sworn in for quite a few months. Out of curiosity, anyone know if there’s any existing doctrine that would allow W to remain in power after the election? Some kind of martial law declaration or something else of that ilk?

  156. intelligentbydesign, on October 11th, 2008 at 3:38 am
    A month wait! That is encouraging. and I
    cannot watch cable news! If it’s on in a store, I can’t stay , I run out!
    Has it been discussed that George Soros
    was on the PBS show NOW this evening like he was simply a financial expert?? WHF?? He’s Mr. Moveon Obama Kingmaker! Lord!

  157. LOL

  158. intelligentbydesign, on October 11th, 2008 at 3:47 am

    All they need is already in place, thanks to the Patriot Act . and I say I believe W is leaving WHEN he’s on his 100,000 acre ranch in Paraguay ! lol! ( laughing to keep sane)

    nity night !

  159. You folks really are stuck on stupid, huh?

  160. Nah, I thing Dubya wants out. He’s been looking old and awful lately.

  161. Seriously, on October 11th, 2008 at 3:43 am Said:


    There is a saying

    When we explain ourselves, everything after we say “because” is BS…

    but they don’t even have that! When I asked my Aunt what has Obama done to deserve to be POTUS?? She said well, she forgot…and I was supposed to accept that??

    Mother of Pearl!

  162. baby, if you’re trolling for votes you need to work in “^%%$# you, a——!” And you never, ever leave without multiple misogynistic and homophobic slurs or Dave holds back the $7.

  163. Okay–must go and sleep. Long-ass day tomorrow. Tr*ll patrol–there’s another one at 3:43. They all look like O-Cello green sponges with yarn hair. Who’s on duty this eve? {{{{creative editing department, line one}}}}}
    ‘Nite all.

  164. “She said well, she forgot…and I was supposed to accept that??”

    She’s forgotten more than you’ll ever know! LOL

  165. 3:52–We need a case of Raid.

  166. Night

  167. You can literally hear the brain cells dying around here…

  168. Seriously, on October 11th, 2008 at 3:58 am

    LOL! or could ever be known!

  169. LOL Even Obama doesn’t know anything he’s accomplished, but she’s performed a miracle! She knows!

  170. But under the felony murder rule and the laws of conspiracy, everyone who participates in making bombs is guilty of murder if someone dies from a bomb explosion, even if it is one of the gang.

    Or three of them, including Ayers main squeeze (Dohrn was not his original girlfriend in the Weathermen)

    What *I* wanna know is how neither of them did any jail time, even aside from COINTELPRO. Unbelievable.

    I won’t vote for Obama under any circumstances. Breaks my heart that our government is so unfit for these challenging times.

  171. paper –

    Know the feeling…between Oldberman and Hannity, I reached a point where I really started believing that the American populous had decided that investigating the claims, reading the sources the pundits use, and deciding for themselves was, like, soooo last year. Rediscovering the library has helped me sleep a little better at night. I’ve even gotten my roomates to head down there and get a card and check out a few books and DVDs. It’s amazing what’s happened to the conversations around here since then. As disheartening as it all can be, there is still some hope out there. If the Goeblles (sp? never can remember how to spell his name) was right and a lie, if told enough times, will become believed as the truth, then certainly the opposite must be true and researched thoughtful information, if told enough times, will be seen as truth. Just gotta keep researching and encouraging others to do the same.

  172. Pundits make people dumb. What kind of books do you like to read, intelligentdesign?

  173. Because while Bill was telling people to kill their parents, he neglected to follow his own advice. It’s easier to beat a multiple murder rap when you have highly connected daddy’s lawyers helping you out.

  174. Tended for a long time towards fiction, especially dystopic types. Zevgeny Yamzatin’s “We”, 1984, Catch-22 ilk. Lots of sci-fi as well, especially Phillip K. Dick, Vonnegut, and Gibson. Howard Zinn entered the list for a bit, as well as a short trip down conspiracy road with RA Wilson. But lately, it’s been much more historical and non-fiction stuff. Been trying to read things like Greenspan’s book, Freidman and Schwartz’s “Monetary History”, some media analysis type stuff…Greatest Story Ever Sold was well done there.

  175. Yevgeny Zamyatin, that is…mand you, lysdexia!

  176. Also seem to keep picking up Richard Bach’s “Illusions”…seems like I end up reading that every year or two, just because I come across it and think “man, this had some great quotes in it…” and it only takes a few hours to read.

  177. myiq2xu, on October 11th, 2008 at 3:37 am Said:

    Q: What’s the difference between an Obama supporter and a brain-eating zombie?

    A: Zombies use mouthwash

    Yes, but do they floss?

  178. Good deal, IBD.

  179. The bailout bill really threw me hardcore into the financial stuff…especially when I started seeing that Bernanke was such a hardcore student of Friedman. Been trying to go back and get a grasp of how the whole monetary system really works, because I think it’s going to be the most important long term issue we have to face as a nation. Seems like every 20 years or so there’s a bust, but people make money off that bust, and then there’s a boom…and I really think a lot of it has to do with the constant waffling of regulation and passing of bills from a financial system that continues to grow more and more complex, and is understood by fewer and fewer people, until eventually everyone gets slammed with the fallout of what very few people really tried to understand.

  180. On the economic downfall being created for the downfall of McCain (therefore victory of Obama, since all the third parties seem to have less of a shot than Perot at his most popular) point above…can’t prove it either way, but as was posted over at stateoftheunion.wordpress recently, the dow seems to do an amazingly good job of following polls for McCain (or vice versa) – .77 correlation. Pretty damned high. No matter what’s behind it, it seems to be doing the job according to Gallup.

  181. Good on you, IDB. I hardly know anything about economics. A week or so ago, I read an interesting NYT article which explained that Bernanke’s studies of the Great Depression showed that the crucial cause ot the Depression was the loss of information capital, i.e. knowledge was lost as to who can be trusted. I guess that’s also the rational for trying to keep CEOs using incentives (to minimize loss of information capital). Interesting stuff, but my mind is just not wired for it. I fall asleep at the sight of an economics book.

  182. the dow seems to do an amazingly good job of following polls for McCain (or vice versa) – .77 correlation.

    Interesting. Which means it’s anti-correlated with Obama’s polling. I think when Kerry lost, the market jumped.

  183. This morning, I woke up early , and looked at the digital clock and in my hypnopompic haze saw the time of 4:04 and wondered where I knew that number … and then as I became a bit more concsious I thought ohhh 404 SLEEP not found !!!

    But even in my sleepy peace , reading about Ayers makes my blood boil .
    You know; most of even the most radical activists in the 70’s hated those fucking stupid weathermen back then too . We knew they were idiots and terrorists and only completely undermined any impact we hoped to have on communities as peaceful activists , because they inspired fear ( as they should have) . The weren’t giving anyone a wink and a nod, they were killing people , and ruining the movements for peace and equality.
    Ayers narcissistic ego; and cognitive dissonamce remains immediately apparent in his very first statement on that film ; when Ayers says “put in its place something more humane ”
    Put something more humane in place after using bombs to blow things up and kill people ???

    Hello Ayers and Dohrn ..you have already past the sane boundary sign of “humane ” somewhere way back there before you turned onto the ramp for ” highway to terrorism” You didnt see that big sign saying now leaving humane and sane; and evidently sanity for you two; was a small town with no patrol car defending the “speed limit of sanity ” , which you two blinked and missed .

    Even back then Ayers was a snotty little ego-centric know it all , whose “movement “( damn that was freudian heehee ) and ideas centered all around himself and his opinions rather than any obtainable results . No wonder bo likes him .

  184. Been lurking for a couple of months. My first post..This is the only site that kept me from falling into a deep depression after BO and friends took Hillary out.
    BO is totally scary and I agree with those that have said that their is something very wrong about this election and the potential for a “take over” is worrying me greatly. But I can see it on both sides. McCain apparently being taken over by the neocons who gave us Ws eight year reign of terror. I can’t see voting for either one of them, I think they are both dangerous. With the economy in a mess, proposed partial ownership of the main banks, more nuts screaming socialism, disappearing tax money to financial and investment compaies, disappearing investments for ordinary citizens, disappearing pensions for us older citizens what more power could either of these candidates want. The repubs keep bringing up the possibility of another terrorist attack to effect the election. Wouldn’t this be a wonderful reason the postpone the election. This is all getting me very freeked out! Too much weird power plays going on.
    I was in the investment business as an analyst and i don’t think all this “toxic loan” stuff is BS. It isn’t that complicated. By letting Lehman fail they created the international “crisis”. The banks have plenty of money to lend, they just won’t do it…they’d rather just wreck the economy…I don’t think so.
    Oh I give up.

  185. Whoops…I ment to say “I do think all this “toxic loan” stuff is BS.”

    And of couse no one would elect the “One” to anything if they looked at Ayers or any number of his other relationships. And if he says one more time that he was raised by a single mother on food stamps and was also raised by his “white grandparents” I won’t be able to stop vomiting.

  186. Would make sense that there was a bit of a jump around that time – since Mortgage Backed Securities and Credit Default Swaps had become such a large part of the market, and the current administration and congress of the time had already presided over the system while the CDS’s were created, the financial folk were quite happy to see that business was continuing as before, and figured they could count on at least 2 more years of self policiing. Would be interesting to look at what the market did in ’06 as well…the power swap in congress may well have created some fear in the markets because they were uncertain as to their party continuing. Seems pretty obvious now that didn’t happen…why is a different issue. I’m beginning to wonder if there doesn’t need to be a separate body for financial regulation that is not based off of any partisan ties…more of an independent body like the Supreme Court. At least then the opposing theories couldn’t continue to waffle back and forth, negating each others ideas and resulting in an eventual crash.

  187. Interesting to note though…as the two parties have gotten further and further away from their bases and create movements like this one, and the intellectual conservatives like George Will and Buckley and Brooks have become increasingly disenfranchised from their party, the banking interests have increased funding to Democratic candidates while decreasing Republican funding, but have still reaped the benefits of Republican proposed deregulation legislation combined with Democratically proposed social programs. Suggests that maybe the constant 8 year (or so) change of financial paradigms (free-market vs. socially conscious) is the ultimate culprit in this whole crisis.

  188. I agree the “toxic loan” stuff is, to a degree, BS. Or, at least, it’s being used as a scapegoat by one side of the argument. From what I’ve been able to figure (which is based only on recent multi-hour bouts of research, since work has been absolutely dead for the last 3 weeks and I’ve had a lot of free time to read and think), it seems that there is too much want by both sides to blame the issues that the other fights for by using “toxic loans” and “deregulation” as their buzzwords. Lending to lower income households is not inherently evil, nor is allowing the markets to have freedom of competition. But allowing either without stringent oversight is just asking to get your ass handed to you on a gold platter…after the price of gold has dropped to $5/oz.

  189. Just realized an earlier comment could easily be mistaken as well – I didn’t mean negative .77 correlation between McCain Gallup Poll/Dow Jones Index, the – was merely a hyphen. The Obama anti-correlation may not be quite as high though, since it’s much easier to find percentages of people who were going to vote for McCain but now say they won’t than it is to find how many of them have switched to Obama and how many have simply become undecided. No matter what the polls say, it’s not over until the hand hits the bible in January.

  190. No dictator has ever admitted to having made mistakes of any sort except those which affected their rise to power, not hitle, not castro, not lenin, not stalin, not chavez, not anyone. They all seem to think they have a divine right to that power, and that anything or anyone who stands in their way must be shut down or eliminated.

    I lived in Berlin for a long time and in a working class neighborhodd. From my window I could see the East German watch towers, and the two dead bodies shot by the soldiers in these watch towers because they were trying to climb their way to freedom. I will not forget my family’s stories of executions, trkking on foot to the Gulag and exile in Siberia, of being non-people, of sleeping in dirt floor huts and freezing to the wooden benches that functioned as beds, of starving, of working in that exile as slaves, of being interrogated by the KGB from the age of 12, of not being permitted to return to their homeland for over 20 years, of not being permitted to travel, of not having freedom of speech, of living in constant, unrelenting fear.

    During the time that people had a window to try and escape, those who had to go into the diapora fled everywhere they could get a permit to live. My family was split on several continents. We had recently, two years ago, found a relative in the land of Chavez who told us that after running from this type of government she was facing it again, but because she had terminal cancer, she could not leave. Her last email included the words” it (dictatorship) happens so quickly, so easily, and before you know it, it’s there”.

  191. I was on a soon-to-be-B0bot-forum when Wright exploded. A large portion of the members became instant fans of Wright. There were “I heart Wright” threads on the best page with hundreds of recommendations. When predictably Wright was thrown under the bus, I wrote: oh, no, now you have to chose: Obama is now against your very favoritest people”
    No choice was made. Those page one threads were disappeared, the bus rolled on and into the memory hole beloved Wright went. So far so, not even McCain dares touch him.

  192. Looking for integrity,

    guten morgen – waehrt den Anfaengen! Every dictatorship looks different at the beginning – only later you know what you got yourself into, hence be vigil!

  193. After all shall be thrown in the memory hole, there’ll be one chilling detail I will not be able to shake from the Ayers story:

  194. READ THIS>>>>very interesting :

    I have been hoping I would never have to write this article. I hoped it would never get to this point, which would force me to openly speak out against the first African American to seriously have a chance to be elected President of the United States.


  195. intelligentbydesign, on October 11th, 2008 at 4:41 am Said:

    … the dow seems to do an amazingly good job of following polls for McCain (or vice versa) – .77 correlation. Pretty damned high.

    That’s actually a pretty darn low correlation. It is the square of the correlation that indicates the degree of variability the dependent variable has on the independent variable. The square of 0.77 is 0.59, so that means about 60% of the variation in the dependent variable (I don’t now which one that was, and it matters) is accounted for by variation in the independent variable. That’s not too much of an explanation – certainly not in the category of doing “an amazingly good job”. Suggestive, but don’t bet your remaining 401K stocks on it. Sorry to be a quantitative nit-picker – it’s what I do for a living!

    I learned as a youth that if there’s a choice between a conspiracy and a c*ck-up, put your money (what’s left of it) on the c*ck-up.

  196. I am surprised Obama remembers how old he was since he doesn’t seem to be sure when or where he was conceived or born.

    I also hear this “Ayers is a college professor now” as if that absolves him. Several years ago there was a professor of business at (I think) Penn State who was very popular. It was discovered that he had a criminal past; he had killed a man back in Texas while hopped up on drugs. He served his time and while in jail earned a doctoral degree. He did not mention his time in jail but he was repentent. Now, I would not be happy to have a murderer on a faculty, but I would rather have that guy than Ayers.

  197. Oh, I forgot to say, the Texas murderer/business professor was fired summarily.

  198. McCain ibacked away in his town hall meeting because he’s afraid of being called a racist. If McCain supporters are calling Obama a “terrorist”, it’s a sure thing that Obama’s thugs are going to start yelling “racism”. That’s the way it’s played out all along. Apparently, it’s “racist” to question or challenge Precious about anything having to do with his judgement , his character, his history, or his qualifications. In fact, it seems to be “racist” to question anything about him at all.

  199. “pm317?”
    Earlier @ 12:ish am wrote a reponse to “BB” about HOW Obama got to Chicago?
    I believe it is Frank M. Davis & I also heard Ayer’s father & Davis were friends. Last night on “Matt’s “”My 2 cents show”, Momma E was questioning where Obama got $$ for all the traveling he did when he was younger. I couldn’t hold on any longer; but I would have said………FRANK MARSHAL DAVIS!!!!!!!!

  200. “Texas murderer/business professor”

    Did he teach “How to make a killing in the stock market?”

  201. Socialism, Marxism, ACORN, Ayers, Dohrn, Brezinski, Frank Marshall Davis, The Global Markets are crashing and governments are purchasing the assets of financial institutions ………………….


  202. Why did Obama LIE ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH AYERS if he “thought he had been rehabilitated?”

    Hmm? If he had no qualms about Ayers, and genuinely thought he had been “rehabilitated” [such an “Orwellian” term] Obama wouldn’t have felt it necessary to be secretive and disingenuous–the word is LIE–about Ayers in the first place.

    No. This is just another W.O.R.M. attempt to shade the truth ONCE AGAIN from Obama.

    The “Messiah” is a Liah!

  203. Good morning all – I have a new Puzzler up, to benefit Democrats for Principle Before Party. http://www.dcattorney.wordpress.com

  204. Texas Darlin’ posted a new video of Odinga and Obama in Kenya…

    Citing her post, I wrote one with a bit of discussion…

    New Video of Obama’s Trip to Kenya; Obama Appearing with Odinga


    A post I did back in April discussed a “photo-shopped” picture of Obama with Odinga. Check out the minutes of the video where I believe the photo originated.
    In my April post, I had a long quote from a comment on the PBS blog which was in response to a Frontline show…the commentor said that photos, etc. had been photo-shopped (used the word “clever” to describe) to show Obama and Odinga together …well, the photo that I had put up definitely comes from the video…

  205. “Carol”
    Great Find, I’m passing it on!

  206. Obama is a “lazy” individual in that he has always left it up to others to do the heavy lifting on his behalf. This is probably the major reason why there is a missing paper trail: someone else always carried his water.

    An Obama presidency will pretty much reflect what has brought him this far: indifference to the day to day governing but with an eye on”guest appearances” and the opportunity to be photographed. The real work will be left, as usual, to others.

    The big questions will surround just who those “others” are and what agenda they hope to put into practice. So far, the only hints we have are those past associations which are suspect. We are looking at people like Rev Wright and Fr Pfleger who make their living promoting “grievance” among their black congregations. When you see yourself as a “victim”, aggrieved through the years, then payback follows.
    With Obama being offered up in the role of the One and the Messiah, he fits their version of righteous savior. Thus the alpha and omega of his version of leadership.

    All a game.

    His association with Ayers may just be what shapes his foreign policy decisions. America The Bad will be made to bend and shape it’s policies in order to assuage the unfriendly countries (enter Farrakhan) and who knows what bargains will be made as a result. The man lacks experience but a willingness to heed those whose past exploits were to bring down the country through violence. Again, he will be an absent participant and leave it to others to shape worldview.

    Rezko is just another sleazy crook on the road to perdition but Obama has shown a callousness in finding an excuse to remain friendly with people of this caliber which goes right to the heart of character. Whatever it takes is how Obama translates his quest for power and Rezko and friends fit that bill. Leaving the door open to people of this nature and looking the other way will more than likely lead to years of “investigation” (hello ACORN) during this blighted administration.

    Obama is only for Obama. He lacks core values and principles and will be led chiefly by those who know how to exploit. Should he take office in January 2009 he will already be looking at another 4 year term in 2012 and will again beholden to the special interests.

    We are looking at another sleazy version of George W. Bush. Men who craved the opportunity to hold the highest office in the land at any cost but lacking in the necessities to bring real leadership to the table. As Bush once remarked, it sure is great to be president. I love being in charge.”

  207. Someone upthread asked if it were true that Ayers’ wife had in fact praised Charles Manson back in the day when she and her hubby were leaders of the Weather Underground.

    I can’t vouch for the reliability of the source (History News Network), not really knowing anything about that source, but googling reveals this passage from an article from HNN:

    Ayers and Dohrn were there at the founding of the Weather Underground. At a 1969 “War Council” that helped launch the organization, Dohrn raised three fingers in a “fork salute” to Charles Manson, whom she proposed as a revolutionary inspiration. She went on to joke about Manson’s victims and dubbed them the “Tate Eight” after Sharon Tate, the pregnant actress whom members of the Manson tribe stabbed in the womb with a fork. “Dig it,” said Dohrn at the time. “First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach! Wild!”

    Later that same year, Ayers attempted to extort money from the Vietnam Moratorium Committee — demanding $20,000 to abstain from violence during a planned peace protest. After rejecting this demand, a member of the Moratorium group asked Ayers what he really wanted. “To kill all rich people,” Ayers responded. When another peace activist pointed out that Ayers himself came from wealth, the radical answered with an angry slogan: “Bring the war home. Kill your parents.” (Note: Neither of these stories made it into Ayers’s highly selective memoir.)

    Remember that Michelle Obama worked alongside Dohrn. Assuming that this is an accurate report, are we really to believe that not a word of this was ever known by Michelle as part of office gossip?

  208. I’m terribly afraid that the economy will continue to be the focus and for some reason many people feel Obama is best suited to deal with the crisis. I don’t know why….but these people don’t seem to care if Obama is good buddies with satan as long as they think he can help their 401k.


  209. Is this the best that they have on Palin? Jeebus!! Obama and ACORN are huge issues which are bound to change the landscape of this political campaign and the news cycles are concentrating on a trooper who should not be carrying a weapon out of fear of public safety and we are allowing the press to blow this out of all serious proportion?

    The MSM will have a lot to answer for eventually. The first up will be their collaboration in assuring an Obama win at any cost. 1930’s German anyone?

  210. Funny, but Ayers and Dohrn sound much like the Obamabots. Anyone notice the similarity? Spoiled, immature, pampered, loudmouths.

  211. Mountain Saga, Well when you over sample democrats and liberal democrats on top of that then you get this kinda result. I also believe that the economy will eventually cause people to vote for McCain. They will not trust Obama to take care of things. Let’s face it in 1992 one of the major reason Clinton won is because, one, Bush 1 was running again after the economy went down hill, two, Ross Perot sucked a lots of votes away from him and embarrassed him during the debates. For some reason everybody forgets Ross Perot in 1992.

  212. Bill Burton bloviating and then the feed was cut on Fox. Don’t know if it was by accident and on purpose.

    Bill still says we “aren’t inquiring minds and” we still “don’t care about those issues (Ayers, ………..)”

    Just giving you your talking points for the day. May sure electrical type is covering your mouth.

  213. William Ayers mentioned Barack Obama in his book, “A Kind and Just Parent”, which was published in 1988. Why does no one point this out when Obama tries to convince people he barely knew Ayers before 1995?

    As for the contention “‘that was a long time ago, how long should a solid citizen be punished??!?!?!’” I believe there is no statute of limitations on homicide.

  214. Pat,

    I think you are very much onto something basic in your remark about the class similarities between Ayers and Dohrn and many other Obama supporters.

    There is an overarching reason for the indifference of most Obama supporters to the horrid past of Ayers and Dohrn, as well as for much of the other behavior of Obama supporters: they all consider themselves bound together as a morally and intellectually superior class — “enlightened”, “sophisticated”, the true and only representatives of the force of Good.

    On some level, it just doesn’t bother them that Ayers and Dohrn played major roles in an organization that murdered people. They forgive Ayers and Dohrn in advance in part because they were fighting for The Good, but mostly because Ayers and Dohrn were just like them, only on the extreme end. They are of their own.

    These supporters really can’t in their hearts accept that if Ayers and Dohrn were party to murder, they should be held in the same moral category as, say, Timothy McVeigh or Eric Rudolph. And it’s because they have basic “class sympathy” with Ayers and Dohrn, but don’t with McVeigh and Rudolph.

    They will never be able to acknowledge that bias.

    This is why they really can’t understand, and deplore, how most people — who are not part of their class — should react so powerfully to Ayers and Dohrn. To them, bringing up Ayers’ and Dohrn’s pasts seems “inflammatory” and viciously unfair, even to Ayers and Dohrn. In their own minds — as, I’m sure, in both Michelle and Barack Obama’s minds — Ayers and Dohrn have indeed been “rehabilitated” because they never did much wrong in the first place. Only those of a morally inferior class would have a real problem with Ayers and Dohrn as they are today, and getting people of that morally inferior class to contemplate Ayers and Dohrn is to create a “rabid lynch mob”, to coin a phrase.

  215. New post up

  216. I got the “old and cold” line from hubby this morning about Ayers, etc. etc. etc. I replied, “Dick Nixon said that too, about Watergate”.

    Wish we had a Woodward and Bernstein that would follow the $$. The MSM was in the tank for W for 7-1/2 years and are now in the tank for Bambi. Jeez.

  217. frankly0,

    Dohrn did say that about the Manson murders, but Sharon Tate was not stabbed in the womb with a fork. That happened at the La Bianca house. So I guess that source isn’t as reliable as some. Try Wikipedia.

  218. I think the Obama’s know how repugnant Ayers is to America. They know to obfuscate the association so their supporters follow blindly. Intentional deceit. The Obama’s are frightfully intelligent, like the evil Maleficent. However, the supporters that regurgitate the Obama’s talking points are too ignorant to be free thinkers, so they are actually to be pitied. They can’t help but to follow…..but what happens when it all implodes in the next few weeks? You should all know by now to NOT count the Republicans out! McCain had 5+ years to sit in a cell and figure out how to head-fake his torturers. He often came back to his cell after “interrogations”, sometimes walking, sometimes not, giving a thumbs-up to his fellow soldiers. Obama whines if someone looks at him the wrong way…..imagine him at he Hanoi Hilton….

  219. ::: BREAKING NEWS :::

    In 2009 the government will start deporting
    all of the weird old people.

    I started crying when I thought of you.

    Run, my friend, RUN !!!!

    Well….what can I say….someone sent it to me! I’m not going alone.

    Got the above from an “R” freind. There was cute pic in it too but it did not come through. May be a response to the agism promoted by BZero, a campanion to the ra*ism, Sex*ism, Misog*mony,elistism, sigh, long list of never before used talking points for a campaign.

    I have never been able to identify the why of the Messiah title – the One title. I stopped watching CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC long ago and only cruise through Fox occasionally. But, last night, I saw a really short chip of Farrakhan spewing that message regarding BZero…….and Tom Hayden’s wife finds him transcendental…………? And Fox is semi tepid in support of McCain? If voters do not have the IQ and the moral compass to put this coup d’etate together – we are screwed as a country. People are scared at the situation this country is in. I feel for the people worried about alllll the things out there about BZero – I think there are three things that are not true or really don’t matter. But there are those who do know and who are expressing very real problems with this fraudulent candidate and the media is making fun of them – discounting real questions in a condecending manner.

    If BZero supporters thought it was really in the bag, they wouldn’t be fighting so hard to surpress, but that does not comfort me because of all the $ -people’s careless smug support for this cipher. We’ve been though stolen elections before and recent. So frustrating.

  220. That Ayers is an unrepentant terrorist is a fact known throughout Chicago (Obama had to know unless he was totally oblivious), but what I think is equally pertinent and illuminating is what Obama did as head of the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. It was Ayers who secured the $49.2 million grant from the Annenberg Challenge for the project, an amount that was increased to $160 million with corporate and private funds.

    Obama headed the board of the CAC from 1995 to 1999 and as such controlled the allocation of funds. A 2003 report on the CAC concluded that Annenberg schools did no better than other schools in improving test scores. One of my problems with Obama has to do with the fact that apparently gave out lots of money but required little feedback or accountability.

    An article in Slate describes the showdown between then Chicago Board of Education head, Paul Vallas, and the Local School Councils. The LSCs are essentially local school boards, made up of elected representatives (6 parents, 2 community members, 2 teachers, 1 principal). They have the ability to hire and fire. In 1999, Vallas attempted to get more control back to his board because he was losing too many experienced principals when the LSCs failed to renew principals’ contracts.

    During this struggle, which ultimately left the LSCs with their power, Obama did the equivalent of voting “present”: he did nothing. Since Vallas was white and many on the LSCs were not, and since Obama, as head of the board of CAC, was considered to be a community leader, there was hope that Obama would work to bring the two sides together. He didn’t do anything until it became apparent that support for Vallas had collapsed. He came out in favor of the LSCs when their power was assured by the state legislature.

    Obama’s apparent lack of interest in getting feedback on the effectiveness of CAC’s programs and his reluctance/inability to act as a unifier go to the heart of his claimed qualifications for the presidency.

    As for Ayers, I found a speech he gave in 2006 to Chavez in Venezuela. Some quotes:

    “We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution, …I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.”

    “Education either reinforces or challenges the existing social order, and school is always a contested space – what should be taught? In what way? Toward what end? By and for whom?”

    Good to know that education isn’t about acquiring skills needed to gain the knowledge that is integral to forming your own opinions – it’s all about reinforcing or challenging the existing social order.


  221. Agree, Pat Johnson.

    Obama is a sleazy, machine-politician version of Bush.

    He has no resume (at least Bush had been a governor), has never balanced any public budgets, no executive background making hard choices, but his supporters claim that “THOSE AROUND HIM” will advise wisely.

    Isn’t that exactly how the Bush/Cheney team was sold?

    The only difference is WHO will be Obama’s “advisors,” given his penchant for associating with unsavory characters.

    And in the long run, I think THAT will push Americans to decide.

    Palin may have her own eccentricities, but compared to the Chicago crowd—Ayers, Dohrn, Wright, Pfleger, Farrakahn, Pritzker, Axelrod, Rezko, etc.—–and the political supporters who willfully pushed the meme of “Clintons as racists…”

    Palin seems quite normal, and much more connected to middle America.

    And I don’t give a rat’s a** what Jeralynn thinks, while she babbles defenses of Ayers, OJ, and Biden. Jeralynn is quite the snob now, without even realizing what she has become.

  222. Does Obama really think that we are stupid enough to believe that he knew nothing of the Weather Underground’s activities back when Barack was only a kid? This is part of American history. Anyone who is oblivious to this is either very dense or very uninterested in politics. I don’t think either of these characterize Obama. It’s one thing to say that he knew about Ayers but believed that he was now “going straight,” even though Ayers recently said he was unrepentant, but it’s completely another thing to feign innocence. It’s a downright lie.

  223. The lies Obama tells are simply breathtaking. This man is another Chavez. I really fear for our country being lead by someone who is this bold faced of a lier with his associates and the dept of corruption he would bring to the oval office. He doesn’t believe in telling the truth, he is making up things as he goes along. It is frighening how many people buy what he says hook line and sinker!

  224. I’ve forgotten how to make quote boxes. Sorry:

    John Murdagh, a Yonkers, N.Y., city councilman and current candidate for state senator, whose home was bombed in 1970 by the Weather Underground, has come forward to challenge Barack Obama’s claim that he only learned of Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn’s activity in the terrorist Weather Underground sometime after a 1995 meeting at the Ayers’ home in Chicago where Barack Obama’s political career was launched.

    In February 1970 John Murtagh’s father was a New York State Supreme Court justice presiding over the trial of the so-called “Panther 21,” members of the Black Panther Party indicted in a plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores. Early on the morning of February 21, three gasoline-filled firebombs exploded at their home on the northern tip of Manhattan, two at the front door and the third tucked neatly under the gas tank of the family car. The same night, bombs were thrown at a police car in Manhattan and two military recruiting stations in Brooklyn. A few weeks after the attack, the New York contingent of the Weathermen blew themselves up making more bombs in a Greenwich Village townhouse. In late November that year, a letter to the Associated Press signed by Bernardine Dohrn, Ayers’s wife, promised more bombings.

    Murtagh put out a statement on behalf of McCain’s campaign Wednesday stating “Barack Obama’s friend tried to kill my family.”

    “The Weather Underground launched an attack on our family home … looking to kill us,” Murtagh told FOX News. “I believe if the senator were to come clean and tell us the full story, we’d find out this relationship well predates the fundraiser held in the Ayers home. It goes back to the ’80s.”

    In an interview on Fox TV, Murtagh established that Michelle and Barack Obama knew Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers beginning in 1988-89, when Michelle Obama and Bernadine Dohrn (Ayers’ wife and a former Weather Underground bomber herself) worked together at the law firm of Sidley and Austin.

    In an interview on Fox TV, Murtagh established that Michelle and Barack Obama knew Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers beginning in 1988-89, when Michelle Obama and Bernadine Dohrn (Ayers’ wife and a former Weather Underground bomber herself) worked together at the law firm of Sidley and Austin.

    Murtagh: Bill Ayer’s wife Bernadine Dohrn, also one of the original leaders of the Weather Underground, and the woman who took credit for the bombing at our home and other New York targets, Bernadine Dohrn was a attorney by training. She couldn’t get admitted to bar because of her crimes. Bill Ayers family got her a job at a large Chicago law firm, Sydney and Austin in the 1980s. She was contemporary at that law firm in the 80s with Michelle Obama. It was the firm where a year later –

    Doocy: Known each other around the water cooler.

    Murtagh: Sure and a year later it’s where Michelle and Barack Obama met. So I believe if the Senator were to come clean and tell us the full story we’d find out this relationship well predates the fundraiser held in the Ayers’ home and goes back to the 80s.


    …Obama is a creation of the British and they can still pull the plug on his candidacy. They can sink him overnight. They can determine the outcome of the election by sinking him or not sinking him overnight, even now…

    … identified the character of the Weathermen after they emerged in 1968 in a document entitled “The New Left, Local Control and Fascism.” The relevance of this question could not be clearer. The Weathermen, like ACORN today, was a British-controlled, anti-labor fascist organization in its essential character. Obama is a product of a fascist movement.

  225. Well, it’s all very discouraging and I know people are feeling down. I don’t know whether anybody put these here at any point, but Sacha Baron Cohen has his own strategy for battling the Obots – he AGREES with them.

    We all need a good laugh. I don’t know whether this is Borat or some other character, but I’ll leave you with these clips and his words: Barack Hussein is not a despicable liar!

  226. Excellent article and comments. I have just one bone to pick with Battlecat, on this early-on comment, which has raised some suspicions from others here:

    Fifth, the Republicans are holding back?!

    John McCain has ALWAYS been the kind of senator who believes that politicians at the senate level and above should be “above the fray”. Hell, our PRIMARY objection to him all these years has been because he spent entirely too much time working with Democrats to compromise on issues that mattered too much to compromise to Republicans.

    That was the Republican base’s main opposition to him being the presidential candidate this year. We KNEW that when the mud started slinging he would not engage, but would work to be “above the fray”, and we also knew that his “buddies” in the news media would desert him once a Democrat candidate was chosen.

    This isn’t about McCain’s courage– that goes without question, given his POW history. And it isn’t about some notion that the Republican Party is somehow complicit in trying to get Obama elected.

    It’s about McCain’s old-fashioned views on the deportment of high-ranking national officials.

    That was our main objection in the first place, why we were pushing so hard to get Romney nominated.

    Unfortunately, Romney proved that he was not “presidential material” by quitting BEFORE Super Tuesday! He gave up too easily, when he and McCain and Huckabee were in what was virtually a three-way tie, and that was not “presidential”, IMHO.

    Seeing Romney give up broke my heart, but on the other hand, after giving it some thought, I realised that I did not want a quitter in the White House.

  227. Grunes, Obama has not released ANYTHING to show us that he has actually acomplished something. All we have to go by is what he SAYS, and what his voting record is.

    What he SAYS changes from day to day (I believe his Iraq “policy” is on v 5.1 and his tax “policy” is at least on v 3.2?), so that leaves his voting record.

    In the Illinois senate, his voting record is pretty much voting “present” on difficult issues.

    He hasn’t been in the US senate long enough to develop a reliable track record.

    His medical records have not been released. His education records have not been released. Hell- his BIRTH CERTIFICATE hasn’t even been released. We don’t even know if this man is a legitimate US citizen.

    So ALL we can do is look at the people he chooses to surround himself with.

    And the people he has chosen to surround himself with leave much to be desired, to say the least.

    If you can’t judge people by who they’ve spent the last twenty years with, and there’s nothing else to work with, and there is absolutely NO record of any accomplishment, how do you know you want this man to be president?

  228. What about Sarah Palin’s support and husband’s membership of the Alaskan Independence Party? They were adults knowing what they were doing and supporting. Also why did Cindy McCain and her father keep their relationship and partnership with Charles Keating 11 years after the scandal? Why did the Keating Firm raise $50,000 for McCain’s campaign? Why did John McCain assist Mark Voigt former VP of Charles Keating Holding Company American Continental Corp., to obtain $228,000 for the Latch School in 2005? Why did Mark Voigt and associates violate the banking laws by donating more than $100,000 to McCain’s campaign? Why did John McCain purchase his house with earmark money? Why does John McCain support an organization that is know for “domestic terrorism” by bombing abortion clinics? These are just a few examples and because I don’t buy your “edited” video and unsupported claims of an association when FactCheck.org clearly states that Obama DID NOT start his career in Ayers living room, I’m sure this post will be deleted. But before you do, you, if nobody else reading your post does, that this is an uwarranted claim that is dangerous. I don’t know how old you are, but if you remember anything about the 1960s you will know that that was not a pretty time for America and yelling fire in a crowded theater is extremely dangerous.

  229. Rightbackatyou– Sarah Palin merely sent a canned message to an AIP convention, and her husband was a member briefly. Todd Palin is 1/4 Eskimo, and that particular organization is primarily an Eskimo organization with a unique set of grievances. It’s roughly equivalent to someone who is, say, 1/4 Cherokee being a member of the AIM– except less radical than the AIM. I don’t see a problem there.

    Who cares about the Keating debacle? John McCain was investigated and completely exhonerated. Why shouldn’t the Keating organization donate to McCain’s campaign? He’s never done anything for them.

    I think you’d better reign in your tendency to go to factcheck.org. They are a blatantly Obama organization, and have a nasty tendency to stretch the truth till it snaps.

  230. Is the Annenberg Political Fact Check that runs FactCheck.org related to the Annenberg foundation that Obama was involved with?

  231. Recent Secession Movements :

    Examples of both local and state secession movements can be cited over the last 25 years. Some secessionist movements to create new states have failed, others are ongoing.

    City secession
    There was an attempt by Staten Island to break away from New York City in the late 1980s and early 1990s (See: City of Greater New York). Around the same time, there was a similar movement to separate Northeast Philadelphia from the rest of the city of Philadelphia. San Fernando Valley lost a vote to separate from Los Angeles in 2002 but has seen increased attention to its infrastructure needs (See: San Fernando Valley secession movement).

    County secession
    In US history many counties have been divided, often for routine administrative convenience, although sometimes at the request of a majority of the residents. During the 20th Century over 1,000 county secession movements existed but since the 1950s only three have succeeded: La Paz County, Arizona broke off from Yuma County and the Cibola County, New Mexico effort both occurred in the early 1980s, while during 1998-2001 there was a transition by Broomfield, Colorado to become a separate jurisdiction from Boulder County. Prior to these, the last county created in the U.S. was Menominee County, Wisconsin, in 1959.

    The High Desert County, California plan to split the northern half of Los Angeles and the eastern half of Kern counties, was approved by the California state government in 2006, but has never been officially declared in force.

    State secession
    Main article: List of U.S. state secession proposals
    Several towns in Vermont including Killington recently explored a secession request to allow them to join New Hampshire over claims that they are not getting adequate return of state resources from their state tax contributions.

    Advocates in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, with off and on intensity, have called for it to become a separate 51st state (sometimes with northern Wisconsin and Northeast Minnesota) called “Superior”. Similarly some in the Little Egypt region of Illinois want to separate due to what they consider Chicagoan control over the legislature and economy.

    In November 2006, the Supreme Court of Alaska held that secession was illegal, Kohlhaas vs. State, and refused to permit an Initiative to be presented to the people of Alaska for a vote.

    In March 2008, the comptroller of Suffolk County, New York once again proposed for Long Island to secede from New York State, citing the fact that Long Island gives more in taxes to the state than it receives back in aid.[30]

    In 1977, the islands of Martha’s Vineyard and Nantucket, tried to secede from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (they also tried to secede from the United States and become an independent nation).

    In Florida there have been calls in the past and present to separate the state into north (a more southern culture) and south (a more northern culture).

    With the decision of the United States Supreme Court to hear District of Columbia v. Heller in late 2007, an early 2008 movement began in Montana involving at least 60 elected officials addressing potential secession if the Second Amendment were interpreted not to grant an individual right, citing its compact with the United States of America.[31]

    Secession from the U.S.
    On July 13, 1977, the City Council of Kinney, Minnesota, led by Mayor Mary Anderson wrote a “tongue in cheek” letter to Secretary of State Cyrus Vance informing him of the city’s secession from the Union to form the Republic of Kinney. Vance never acknowledged the letter.

    The mock 1982 secessionist protest by the Conch Republic in the Florida Keys resulted in an ongoing source of local pride and tourist amusement.

    The group Republic of Texas generated national publicity for its actions in the late 1990s. There have been repeated attempts to form a Republic of Cascadia in the Pacific Northwest. The Hawaiian sovereignty movement has a number of active groupings which have won some concessions from the State of Hawaii. Founded in 1983, The Creator’s Rights Party seeks to have one or more states secede in order to implement “God’s plan for government” and is fielding political candidates in 2007 around the United States.

    Efforts to organize a continental secession movement have been initiated since 2004 by members of Second Vermont Republic, working with noted decentralist author Kirkpatrick Sale. Their second “radical consultation” in November of 2004 resulted in a statement of intent called The Middlebury Declaration. It also gave rise to the Middlebury Institute, which is dedicated to the “study of separatism, secession, and self-determination” and which engages in secessionist organizing.

    In November 2006 the same group sponsored the First North American Secessionist Convention which attracted 40 participants from 16 secessionist organizations and was (erroneously) described as the first gathering of secessionists since the Civil War. Delegates included a broad spectrum from libertarians to socialists to greens to Christian conservatives to indigenous peoples activists. Groups represented included Alaskan Independence Party, Cascadia Independence Project, Hawaiʻi Nation, The Second Maine Militia, The Free State Project, the Republic of New Hampshire, the League of the South, Christian Exodus, the Second Vermont Republic and the United Republic of Texas. Delegates created a statement of principles of secession which they presented as the Burlington Declaration.[32] The Second North American Secessionist Convention in October, 2007, in Chattanooga, Tennessee received local and national media attention.[33]

    Additionally some members of the Lakota people of Montana, Wyoming, and the Dakota region are also making steps to separate from the United States.[citation needed] The self-proclaimed Republic of Lakotah has made a point to say that their actions are not those of secession, but rather an assertion of independence of a nation that was always sovereign and did not join the United States willfully. They note a failure of the United States government in honoring treaties, and abuse of Native peoples through out its history. A statement of independence was released as of January 2008, and the United States government has not commented on the issue.

  232. rightbackatyou,

    This isn’t a Republican blog or a McCain supporting blog. I don’t know the answers to your questions about McCain and Palin. Try McCain’s website. That’s what the O-bots always used to tell me when I had questions.

  233. Someone made a comment that it didn’t make sense to be against Obama but unwilling to support McCain. I guess I don’t make sense then. Because EVERY time I think about voting for him, McCain runs an ad trashing Liberals and I run off screaming.

  234. […] Why William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn Matter When I was young, my mom used to tell me to choose my friends carefully, because “you are judged by the company […] […]

  235. Swanspirit, interesting post on the secessionist movements :). I had no idea that secessionists were so common.

    Then there’s the routine “secession” of the Florida Keys from the US and Florida– although this is widely known to be both a joke and a PR gag. Generated from Key West, the islands routinely “seceed” from the union and declare themselves the Republic of Conchland.

    Been there, got the t-shirt :D.

  236. katiebird, re: The Annenburg Foundation:

    I found this tidbit on Google, on the Blogs 4 McCain web site (which I don’t participate normally, since I’m not actively “for” McCain). This concerns the Byzantine connections, trying to suss out if there was a connection between Ayers and factcheck.org:

    Clarification: The connection between Obama and Ayers is through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge that received money from the Annenburg Foundation, but the Chicago Annenburg Challenge Challenge and the Annenburg Foundation are not directly connected philosophically. The earmark Senator Obama requested was for the Annenburg Foundation, which
    funded the Chicago Annenburg Challenge and also funds FactCheck.org.

    Obama is tied to both groups, one via earmark, the other via direct participation, however, Ayers is not directly connected to FactCheck.org.

    So it appears that Obama managed to get an earmark for the Annenburg Foundation, which funds factcheck.org. Interesting.

  237. mamapajamas,

    How convenient — Funny how that’s never mentioned when they evaluate the truthiness of campaign ads.

  238. I will vote for Obama if someone can provide the name and number of one piece of legislation that he has authored and gotten passed while in the U.S. Senate.

  239. Hi Ash, you might not want to make that promise, I heard he was able to sponsor legislation to rename a post office once.

  240. I realized that factcheck.org was a biased source when all the other candidates “lie” but Obama “exaggerates” for oratorical impact. You know we’re in trouble when the supposed watchdogs are drinking the kool-aid too.

  241. […] FACT: Michelle Obama knew Bernadine Dohrn in 1988 and just a bit of background about this wack job and how she relates to the Manson Family and Why does she and Ayers matter. […]

  242. […] we had a new face…" Is that what they base their decisions on? Look at his policies! Look at his past! Listen to what he intends to do with your money!… Watch his actions …[2]…Read […]

  243. Your blog is interesting!

    Keep up the good work!

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: