• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    Kathleen A Wynne on Engrossment
    William on Engrossment
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Dissing the Double X
    Propertius on Engrossment
    Propertius on Dissing the Double X
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Dissing the Double X
    William on Engrossment
    Propertius on Dissing the Double X
    Propertius on Dissing the Double X
    Wiliam on Engrossment
    Ga6thDem on Dissing the Double X
    Ga6thDem on Dissing the Double X
    Catscatscats on Engrossment
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Dissing the Double X
    William on Engrossment
  • Categories

  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • Open Thread
      Feel free to use the comments to this post to discuss topics unrelated to recent posts. (Posting was light last week due to some business, but should resume a more regular schedule this week.)
  • Top Posts

Obama, the “Democrat” Opposes Homeowners Rescue Plan

Let that sink in for a minute.

According to the AP piece, Obama camp says McCain Mortgage Plan unworkable, Obama is suddenly concerned that the taxpayer would be unduly burdened:

Democrat Barack Obama’s campaign criticized John McCain’s mortgage bailout plan Wednesday, saying it would cause the government to lose money by paying too much for bad loans.

McCain’s proposal to spend $300 billion in federal funds to buy distressed mortgages was a highlight of Tuesday’s presidential debate, and it seemed to catch Obama off guard. At first, Obama’s campaign said he had made similar proposals and there was nothing new in McCain’s remarks. …

McCain’s proposal would devote nearly half the $700 billion from the recent financial rescue package to buying troubled mortgages directly, rather than indirectly aiding the nation’s financial markets.

What’s wrong with this picture?  Helping strapped homeowners get back on track to pay their mortgages is in everyone’s best interest.  It’s not a Republican or Democrat thing.  It’s the *right* thing.  What is the point of forcing families into foreclosure on loans that suddenly ballooned beyond the homeowner’s ability to pay?  A homeowner who walks away from a mortgage is paying the bank nothing.  That interrupts the flow of money into the financial system.  Is it in the interest of other homeowners to see multiple foreclosures in their neighborhoods?  That sort of depresses house values, doesn’t it?  So, it seems like renegotiating the terms of these loans would be a very good idea for taxpayers who now have a stake in the banks who have been subsumed.

Who is actually hurt by this?  I can’t think of anyone who loses- except for the people who were gambling on big returns and are going to have to settle for a lot less.  You know, those people who played with credit default swaps and stuff like that?  The ones who really have no idea what the value of those assets are?  Buying up the mortgages sort of puts a value on them, doesn’t it?  I guess it is to the financial whiz kidz’ advantage to keep that all fuzzy and nebulous because there is always a chance they would get more than the asset is actually worth, (sort of like the fuzzy and nebulous Obama himself).  Right?  Am I reading this right, Dakinikat?

So, it *appears* that John McCain does not see any downside for the taxpayer in this deal because the money will start flowing again and all those banks we bought might start to be solvent.  But Barack Obama is trying to protect taxpayers from an additional burden.

Uh-Huh.  Which taxpayers would they be again?

I can’t wait to see how the cognitively dissonant are going to spin this.

Update: Kudos to madamab whose earlier post, Annnnnd, worst debate ever, my friends has made WaPo’s Political Browser page!  Pretty darn good for one of them opera types.  😉

Also, stay tuned for The Lions Share on PUR tonight at 8PM EST.

440 Responses

  1. Sigh. This is what happens when the Democratic Party capitulates to a Democrat in name only rather than a real Democrat.

  2. Absolutely incredulous shrinking rap star…Obama knows not what he does, over and over again.

  3. didn’t pelosi just say they might need to pass another bailout to the tune of 150 billion? Oh, but helping homeowners is a “burden”..btw, isn’t that kinda racist…you know, if you play by their rules?

  4. Senator Obama knows it is Hillary’s plan, so of course he can’t adopt it. (It’s all ego with him …)


  5. Obama is nothing but a cheap opportunist who totally lacks a core.

    He realized today that Rightwingers were against the idea and he figured that would be a way to endear himself to the freaks on the Right who have a tough time embracing McCain because he’s not conservative enough.

    Obama’s water carriers in the media complain sometimes that he doesn’t seem passionate enough. Halloooo, it’s because he has no ideas to be passionate about, the only thing he’s passionate about is Obama.

    Watch Obama talk about healthcare and watch Hillary talk about healthcare.
    Watch Obama talk about his “economic” agenda and watch Hillary talk about the “progressive” economic agenda.

    Always beware of people who have no passion, and Obama is one of those.

  6. Obama has no passion nor does he have anything else I want!


    Why does anyone waste time even listening to him?

  7. Interesting that the article ends like this:

    “Obama read his speech from a teleprompter, his habit in recent weeks. He strayed from the prepared text, however, to mention GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, the Alaska governor who has led her ticket’s attacks on Obama.

    McCain “and Gov. Palin are out there saying all kinds of stuff,” Obama said.””

    All kinds of “stuff”? I wonder if he is getting nervous, perhaps, about the links with Professor Ayers?


  8. “pay too much for bad loans”?

    Guess what? The govt has property appraisers…at FHA, VA and who knows where else! They can appraise the properties for the govt. !! Sheesh!!

  9. “saying it would cause the government to lose money by paying too much for bad loans.”

    Wheras it would be much better to hand out no strings money that’s never going to be repaid anyway to our cronies.

  10. And don’t forget, this is a flip-flop from this morning when he was taking credit for it


  11. masslib: Neither one has anything worth a shit on health care.

    I have a sinking feeling Charles may be right because of the economy, but I have no faith that Obie will be able to do a freakin’ thing positive for it or us.

  12. JAMES CARVILLE: (On CNN) “Now, let me be clear here. If Obama goes in this race with a five-point lead and loses this election, the consequences are — oh, man. I mean I don’t think that’s going to happen, but I think David — it’s a point to bring up, but you stop and contemplate this country if Obama goes in and — and he has a consistent five-point lead and loses the election, I — it’s — it would be very, very, very traumatic out there.” Does he mean RIOTS!

  13. @ANNE, it would mean he wasn’t able to use all those phony ACORN voter registrations !

  14. Riverdaughter as always makes a cogent case. But I do have great reservations about helping “distressed homeowners.” Many people bought houses beyond their means. Some did it out of a sense of yuppie entitlement: they just had to have that big house, to go with their big cars and brand-new tech toys. Many did it because they wanted to get in on the profits they were seeing flow to those whose houses were shooting up in value. After all, if their new house went up 25% in value in a year, as they were doing, they would make hundreds of thousands of dollars, and could refinance. Some, at least in my state of California, wanted to “flip” the house, selling it for a quick profit. I know people who had eight or nine of these houses, all but one intended to turn over. And then of course there were those who simply failed to read or understand the loan terms. That is unfortunate, but certainly not the responsibility of the more aware, more careful, prudent and frugal citizens who do not expect to get something for nothing, and who can calculate the cost of a mortgage.

    If It sounds like I have substantial resentment of those who helped cause this drunken capitalistic orgy known as the housing bubble, I have. I decry the greedy and sometimes unscrupulous lenders. But I also have little sympathy for all those buyers who pushed prices in my state of California to unprecedented levels. Houses which were going for $400,000 in 2002 were up to $1 million in many cases by 2006. I know that because I looked at them. And who actually could afford a million dollar house? Not the people who were now in them; who we are now going to help out, lower their interest rates, maybe reduce the priincipal a bit, so that they can stay in their mansions and keep the housing value artificially inflated?

    Yes, I know that there are many homeowners who bought much more modest houses, in other states. If one of them had gotten sick, or had lost their job through no fault of their own, I am always for compassion in such cases. But there is not an epidemic in this country, nor have their yet been massive job losses. Most of these people similarly bought a house they could not afford, could not have even afforded one year’s worth of mortgage payments, were it not for the teaser rates; nor could they or did they have to make a down payment, as used to be required. So why exactly are we going to help them out? Because it is “good for the economy”? Because it will help the home values on the rest of the block? Because these people deserve our help, even while half of the country is still priced out of the still inflated home market?

    This is where I part company with McCain, even with the much admired Hillary. It is time we rewarded people in this country for behaving responsibly, not endlessly bailing them out for making foolish or greedy decisions. If it was absolutely certain that the bailout of the financial institutions was necessary to save the economy–something which I am not all convinced of–then I must grudgingly assent to that, but only that. The rest of it, including the housing market, should essentially be left to seek its own true level. This has nothing to do with Obama, who has no plan to do anything helpful for the worker or consumer. But here, by pure circumstance, he happens to be on the right side, in my view.

  15. McCain needs to do an ad on this PRONTO…..

    As for Carville “JAMES CARVILLE: (On CNN) “Now, let me be clear here. If Obama goes in this race with a five-point lead and loses this election, the consequences are — oh, man. I mean I don’t think that’s going to happen, but I think David — it’s a point to bring up, but you stop and contemplate this country if Obama goes in and — and he has a consistent five-point lead and loses the election, I — it’s — it would be very, very, very traumatic out there.” Does he mean RIOTS!”

    What, are supposed to be dissuaded from voting because of threats of “riots”???? He should shut up and not go there…let the Obama thugs go there…

  16. Great post, RD.

    And James Carville can shove it. I would say bite me but I’ve seen his teeth and I don’t like my chances. (Still love him though.)

    I’m not convinced John loses on the economy. Especially with his HOLC-like package in the make. Even more because Democrats look like morons on the economy. A second bailout, Barack? We didn’t like the first one.

    Oh, and this is worth seeing. Even the Obots are confused about just who is who anymore: Joe Biden Introduced as Next Vice President ‘Joe McCain’

  17. I just watched that clip again. That’s not even Joe McCain, it’s John McCain. Does he know what side he’s on?

  18. William – a couple of minor points. I read somewhere that McCain said the mortgage help will only be available to an owner occupier and they must be able to prove they were credit worthy at the time of original purchase.

  19. In frikkin credible.

    As I read the article, the only amount the government buys out in the homeowners rescue, is the DIFFERENCE between the old mortgage and the new mortgage, but the homeowner will stay in his home with a re-figured mortgage. And McCain’s plan is only for families that who actually live in that home……not for speculators.

    IE, a $100,000 loan may be re-negotiated to $80,000 with a 30-yr fixed interest rate (no balloons or ARMS) , and applicant must prove employment, credit history, and ability to pay.

    Per above, McCain’s program only pays the bank the “forgiven” $20,000. The family assumes the new “affordable” mortgage and stays in the home.

    Obama’s campaign is lying.

    By doing nothing, the government (translate: taxpayer) eats the whole $100,000.

    And by the way, per McCain campaign, the $300 Billion is not in addition to the $700 b; it’s a suggestion of how to manage the very vague provision that’s already in the original bailout bill.

    Good Lord. Obama’s full of it.

  20. MCCAIN: “It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions to the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney. You know who voted for it? Might never know. “That one.” You know who voted against it? Me.”

    Media’s Response to McCain referring to Obama as “That One” last night.

    ANDREA MITCHELL: “Certainly a lot of people of color, uh, minorities, will take offense at that. It seemed dismissive.”


    “What did you think of McCain calling Obama ‘that one’?”

    AXELROD: I thought that was odd. I mean I — I — I —

    REPORTER#1: It seemed a little disrespectful?

    AXELROD: Well, I’ll let others decide. I mean, I think that people saw the debate

    REPORTER #2: Why do you think (unintelligible)?

    AXELROD: Why?

    REPORTER #2: Why was it odd?

    AXELROD: Well, Senator Obama has a name, and, uh, generally, uh, you’d expect opponents to use the name.

    BlackVoices.com has conducted a poll. “How did you react?” This, by the way, claims here to be “the number one online destination for African-American news, culture, and community,” and they took a poll of the site’s users following the debate last night with McCain talking about “that one,” meaning Obama, and here are the results.

    “How did you react to McCain’s that one reference to Obama? Thought it was childish and respectful: 66%. I was outraged by it: 20%. I totally missed it. What’s that? 8%. It’s a good sound bite, nothing more: 6%. Total votes: 2,163.

  21. Next question: WHO from Obama’s contributors benefits from NOT doing what McCain suggests?

  22. Carville needs to apologize. Remember when Democrats used to be in favor of voting and voting rights? He’s basically saying that Donna and Howie haven’t figured out a foolproof way to squelch teh vote, so those pesky voters better stay home and not mess things up if they know what’s good for them.

    That makes me so proud!

  23. Riverdaughter,

    I realize this a silly question, but did Obama offer an alternative that would help homeowners hang onto their homes instead of defaulting on their mortgages? I read the story you linked and nothing was mentioned.

    So let me get this straight: Obama wants to bail out the investment banks and let individual homeowners go down the tubes. And people think he is a socialist…why?

    This man is transparently selling out to the highest bidders, he has friends like Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers that would normally totally freak out middle America, he has no original ideas, and yet he’s leading in all the swing states. I must be the biggest idiot that ever lived, because I simply do not understand it.

    I’m immune to whatever most Americans are drinking in that Koolaid. Am I doomed to go through again what I experienced when Reagan ran for President? The man was a complete idiot and Americans loved him. Obama is a mean, nasty thug. But it’s starting to look like enough Americans may be blinded by the koolaid long enough to elect him. And maybe he’ll still keep that teflon coating. I’m horrified.

  24. Oh crap!

    They’re gonna be calling us rac*sts again for this.

  25. madamab!!!! Yay! Congratulations.

    I guess we’d better brace for an influx of trolls clicking through from the WaPo.

  26. Congrats to Madamab! I love it when this site is quoted in WSJ or NYTimes. Yes, we are still relevant!

  27. OT – sorry if it has been posted before

    Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on AIG Executives’ Spa Retreat Following Taxpayer Funded Bail-out

    “One week after the government spent $85 billion rescuing AIG, company executives went on a retreat at a luxury resort, spending more than $440,000 of taxpayer money on spa visits, Golf outings, and lavish meals. This is a disgrace. American taxpayers are making unprecedented sacrifices to restore stability to our markets and economy. All of us deserve to know that this money is being used wisely, not for displays of unbridled greed even as middle class taxpayers footing the bill struggle to pay for health care, the mortgage, fuel costs, college tuition, and the necessities of daily life. For all intents and purposes, the American taxpayers bought 85 percent of AIG when the company came to the Treasury Department in dire necessity. The money wasted by these executives must be reimbursed immediately and these executives must be called to account for their brazen irresponsibility.”


  28. edgeofforever,

    Paulson was asked this question this morning in his press conference: does the provision require the Treasury Secretary or the banks who take part in the $$$ program to help struggling homeowners?

    His answer was NO. It “allows” them to use the money to do so, but does not “require” it.

    Difference between the words MAY and SHALL, in the legislation. It’s MAY.

    So, once again, Obama campaign lies, to benefit themselves politically.

    McCain’s will be SHALL, and $300 billion of the bailout set aside for that purpose.

    See how easily the Obamas lie?

  29. More funny is that McCain’s campaign ADMITS that this plan was HILLARY’s plan!! Rememebr the one she wrote about in the WSJ a week or so ago – and guess what – the New York Times has an article discussing the “provenance” of the idea/plan – which was – you guessed it – FDR!!!

    So, basically – Obama has now only come out against McCain and homeowners, but also against Hillary and FDR!! Now that’s a really good Democrat for you – sorry – couldn’t resist being sarcastic!

    No way! No how! No Obama!!
    McCain 2008
    Hillary 2012
    Puma for life!

  30. Go, Madamab! You’ve hit the big time, my friend.

  31. edgeofforever,

    Obama must have opened his mouth before Goolsbee got a hold of him and explained the facts of life. The investment banks made Barack and they can also bring Barack down if they want to. He is a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street.

  32. William: I agree that is sorta does look like we are going to be rewarding irresponsibility in some yuppy cases but this is the same argument that Republicans make about helping the poor and it’s just as wrong. See, the yuppy is still going to walk away from the loan. That means he/she isn’t going to be paying. Or that strapped yuppy will be paying so much in mortgage that he won’t be able to pay the dentist for the root canal he had to have last year and for which he still owes $700. (I overheard this conversation between the receptionist at the Dentist’s office and the hapless homeowner on the other end of the phone.) It is a trickle thing but the trickle is more like getting peed on.
    Irresponsibility should not be rewarded but we can’t screw all of the taxpayers because a few of them decide to go for the gusto and get strangled by it. It’s about as sensible as refusing to fully fund SCHIP because some poor person in Alabama who has a job in Walmart wasn’t able to get a college education and can’t pay for health insurance for their kids. We all end up paying for that when the kid gets taken the ER for an asthma attack. AND it costs more.

  33. Since McCain is fer it, TalkLeft is agin it:


  34. RD,

    I’m working on a cold so I can’t think clearly but, I’m astonished at Obama’s selfish idiocy. Or I would be if I wasn’t so used to it

    PS Congratulations MadamaB!!

  35. Myiq,

    I notice that very few of the responses admitted that Obama doesn’t even HAVE a plan, except for BTD urging Obama to endorse Hillary’s HOLC.

    Good grief. TalkLeft is really a mess now.

    Sad, sad, sad.

  36. “Who is this FDR? Some kind of Republican, I’ll wager. He was the Nostradamous of racists, too, already opposing the One years before the Blessed Event.”

  37. Downticket @ 7:27 pm: OMG! That is just mind-boggling.

  38. “Who is this FDR? Some kind of Republican, I’ll wager. He was the Nostradamous of raci sts, too, already opposing the One years before the Blessed Event.”

  39. myiq2xu, welcome to the mind of an Obamabot. Obama could come out tomorrow and say he is against Social Security and the Obamabots would find an excuse and tell that it is part of his winning strategy and that he will do things differently once he wins. Whatever. The Obamabots no longer have a mind of their own and have found the ability to spin anything Obama says right or wrong.

  40. Well, you know, Seriously, Barak Obama DID say in the primaries that the Republican party was the party big ideas, remember?

    Everything icky in America was because of the Clinton and Bush administrations, I seem to recall him saying.

    I seem to recall Jeralynn going off the deep end on THAT one, and literally DESPISED Joe Biden.

    Time changes things, eh? LOL

  41. DV, the ex Republican types who make up most of Obama’s support within the party would be THRILLED if he said we were getting rid of SS.

  42. I just went over to Alegre’s Corner…so masslib commented on this site that the election was over and that Obama has already won?
    Why does masslib not believe that comment wouldn’t be deleted here? It provides nothing to the conversation and only points out that she is now an Obamabot. I’ve seen some of her comments and responses and she feels the need to rebut anyone who says something against Obama. Classic sign that masslib has drunk the kool-aid. Sad.

  43. For those who are complaining about McCain’s proposal (and Hillary’s) rewarding reckless homeowners, I say phooey!

    Three members of my family are caught in this nightmare. They bought houses during the housing bubble. They were talked into taking out adjustable loans by mortgage brokers who were aided and abetted by realtors and appraisers……..in other words “experts in their fields”

    All three planned to refinance with a 30 year fixed before the due date. ….which they no longer can do because the value of their houses have dropped below current appraisal.

    Is that their fault?

    All of them have good jobs. They can certainly afford a reasonable mortgage. Hillary’s (and McCain’s) plan will literally save their houses……AND stabilize the housing market.

    What’s not to like?

  44. Riverdaughter, I concur that it is a complex matter, the morals of it, as well as purely the financial aspect. I don’t want to go off on an economic tagent; and I am not an economic expert–although who is, really? It just seems to me that in addition to the morals of it, which I discussed above, what we are doing now is almost a recipe for replicating the previous disaster. We are trying to flood the market with money, so that the banks will start lending again at low interest rates. We are buying up their bad loans, maybe even trying to help out the homeowners with better rates and terms. We might well be better off in raising, not precipitously lowering, interest rates, thereby protecting the falling dollar, and helping those older people on fixed incomes, who depend on their savings accruing. Why do I have this feeling that what we are doing is printing paper money in a desperate effort to avoid current financial pain, ultimately leading to far worse consequences? Let us sincerely hope that this is not the case.

    Politically, I am pretty certain that the next President after this one will don populist garb, real or false. We are heading into Huey Long populist demagogue territory, I fear. And the one person out there who could have navigated through thiese shoals with a steady and a fair hand, was blithely tossed aside by the Party which used to actually stand for helping the working person.

  45. DV, did you ever see the Omega Man with Charlton Heston, when the people who had the “sickness” would “turn” and go to “the family”?

  46. I saw this over on that WaPo site that linked to madamab’s post {{ YAY!!!! }}. Dare I hope that McCain is on an upswing?

    3:30 p.m. ET: We won’t know for a few days how last night’s debate affects the polling in the presidential race. We do know that, at this moment, Barack Obama seems to be ahead. But by how much?

    With so many different surveys out there — all with different sample sizes, methodologies and funny acronyms — it can be tough to figure out what’s a trend and what’s a blip. On one hand, Gallup’s tracking poll now has Obama up 11 points, his biggest lead over John McCain in the entire campaign. On the other hand(s), four other major tracking surveys, for Rasmussen, GW/Battleground, Reuters and Hotline, put Obama’s current lead at 6, 4, 2, and 1 point(s) respectively.

    More intriguingly, all four of those closer tracking surveys showed Obama’s lead shrinking from the day before. With the exception of a few phone calls made last night, all of the polls came before the Nashville debate. So is it possible that McCain is actually on the upswing, and that just hasn’t penetrated the media’s consciousness yet?


  47. I like that McCain gives credit to Hillary while Obama just steals her ideas.

    Someone once referred to McCain as a conservative Democrat.. I think McCain has talked more positively about former Democratic presidents than Obama.

  48. I don’t think people need to worry about civil disobedience in case Obama loses… remember, the Republicans are the ones with the guns :-).

  49. Mawm, no I’ve never seen Omega Man. But you can go over to Alegre’s Corner to read Masslib’s diary. She become pretty intolerable since jumping on the Obama bandwagon. I feel like she doesn’t even respect PUMA viewpoints anymore. Anyway, the folks are over there talking about how the election is over.

  50. That comment doesn’t sound like Carville……although I believe you that he said it.

    Perhaps Carville understands the skewing of several of the polls showing Obama with a larger lead; perhaps Carville felt the need to push buttons to cover his own internal data knowledge.

    Whatever it was, it was a really really stupid thing to say. Pathetic, really.

    If anything, there will be backlash for it.

  51. William, aka lililam, aka b matthews….etc. etc. —

    who are you and why do you have about 20 id’s on this blog? care to explain?

  52. Wrong, Alex. As Obama told the rich folks in San Fran, there are lots of bitter, gun-toting Democrats in Appalachia. And guess what, they vote.

  53. I was more than a little surprised to read this news. Actually I knew it much earlier today, before it was reported.

    Some poor unfortunate Obot person called me this morning to ask me to support Obama. I told her that I was an Independent and that I liked what McCain had proposed to ease the mortgage crisis. She countered that it would cost the taxpayers money so it wasn’t something Obot would support. I asked her why Obot was willing to help Wall Street but not Main Street. The line went silent.

    I am against the whole bailout mess. But if there is one thing that I think the American taxpayers would be willing to do, it is foot the bill for the mortgage crisis so that ordinary Americans can have stability with their most precious and necessary asset. Saying that this would somehow benefit the lenders is just a political excuse not to do something.

    McCain is right.

  54. Hmmmm….Good catch, Gary. Yes, William, who are you anyway?

  55. That’s not comforting, alex. What are Democrats supposed to do, whack Obots with copies of Living History?

  56. Civil disobedience?

    Will the Democrats in blue states riot and burn down their own neighborhoods? Kinda silly, since Obama will have won those states.

    Or will they riot in red states that were never going for Obama anyway?

    I guess the swing states could hold riots if they wanted to, but why would they want to?

  57. Mary,

    I heard the quote from Carville on the radio. It was definity Carville’s voice. He has gone over to the dark side, at least for now.

  58. bostonboomer, I expect those will be voting McCain Palin this time.

  59. Lililam and william are different people. I know them both, Gary. They’re separate posters at another blog.

    Hope we can get this settled. I have to go.

    Later, friends.

  60. DV, wishful thinking on their part. 4 weeks is a lifetime in politics.

  61. Apparently not, Alex. Obama is leading by quite a bit in PA at the moment.

  62. DV:

    If someone got tiresome here, why go elsewhere to read her comments?

  63. Does anyone else think that the pressure to “support Obama” is incredibly powerful? That it might be impossible for some people to admit that they don’t like or trust him — even if they really, really don’t?

    I was listening to NPR this afternoon as I was driving around and the show was all about racism and Obama’s chances for election. It was almost like the ONLY thing that would keep Obama from the White House is racist attitudes. They didn’t even hint at any other issue.

    And in my social circle, I’m the only one I know that didn’t drink the Kook-aid last spring. I’m SURE my friends think I’m an Obot just like they are. (but what if some of them aren’t either — I’d never know).

    My Dad (totally NOT an Obot) said something that implied that my Brother In Law might not have drunk the evil drink. But, when I pressed him he said — “I don’t ask anyone about this — it’s just too weird”

    I’m not saying the polls are absolutely wrong. But, I’ve gotta say that I’ve never felt such pressure to hide what I’m thinking about the election. Could that sort of feeling be affecting the polls?

  64. bboomer, he/she has had about 30 id’s since april….

  65. Did you hear that Sarah Palin is related to FDR and Princess Di?

  66. Well, masslib was defending Obama for opposing HOLC on Alegre’s diary so I expect a lot of wishful thinking from masslib whether or not Obama wins the election.

  67. myiq2xu, I’ve been a regular visitor of Alegre’s Corner for most of this year so I am forced to read masslib’s comments over there. I’m thinking about not going over to that site anymore too. It’s mixed with PUMAs and former Clinton now Obama supporters.

  68. did anyone just see campbell brown accuse mccain of racebaiting because someone used Obama’s middle name???

  69. Regency, on October 8th, 2008 at 8:00 pm Said:
    Lililam and william are different people…

    I 2nd that . Two different people

  70. “Last night, conservatives groaned in unison when John McCain launched his “new” initiative to renegotiate the principal on home mortgages with owners approaching bankruptcy. Some called this a “second bailout”, and others predicted a massive hit on home values nationwide. In fact, this is nothing terribly new nor innovative, and it has as much chance of preserving home values as it does of eroding them.” Ed Morrissey, Hotair.com

  71. I quit visiting AC a while back, and I wasn’t surprised to see New Hampster part ways.

  72. they along with about 30 other id’s have the same IP address….sorry to break it to you, they’re the same person, or are trolls working in shifts.

  73. William is not Lililam. William is a guy whereas Lililam is a woman.They really are different people.

  74. I’ve seen two other people defend william/whoever but no reply from william yet.


  75. I didn’t know New Hampster left Alegre’s Corner but I guess that would explain why he created his own website. Glad to know I’m not the only one abandoning that site. Too many of us have given up or lashed out at Riverdaughter for staying the course. About a quarter of the sites in our blogroll need to be taken down because I have a feeling that they will become full fledged Obamabot sites if Obama wins the election.

  76. Ok, back from having a car NIGHTMARE. Battery, alternator – UGH. Mercury Retrograde SUCKS!

    But …

    YAY MADAMAB!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOO-HOO!!!!!!!!

    And yeah, Obama’s no Democrat. John McCain is more of Democrat than Obama ever will be.

  77. Well the fact that the GOP hates the plan is aces with me

  78. plus, they are the same as b matthews, who katie banned for continuing to use all caps after repeated warnings. later liliam shows up, banned, and I let her back in. next thing you know b matthews is back, no longer doing the all caps…they’re all one in the same guys….

  79. whatever you guys, unless they all live in the same house, somebody has been playing games….

  80. Ya gotta be pretty lonely if you make up sockpuppets to keep you company.

  81. It’s only by addressing the loans at the home owner
    ( for now ) level in some manner that we can begin to stop the bleeding. I believe Barry & Co don’t want it this idea looked at because they don’t want the bleeding stopped too soon….. Is it like a bail out? well maybe, but if we are throwing money at the banks with open ended bailouts, why shouldn’t some of that go to the home owner ? The homeowner may have borrowed too much, but who doesn’t depend on the pros in house buying? Very few …if the professional tells you you qualify , who would protest?

  82. DV, as Oprah would say, “When people tell you who you are, believe them.” Obama didn’t run this campaign because he can’t contain himself sometimes how much he wants to put all those beautiful Democratic ideas he spent all these months disdaining/making a mockery of into action with all the accountability that comes from kool-ade drinkers, Congressional supermajorities, and a worshipful press.

  83. I considered making a sockpuppet once. But what if it didn’t like me?

  84. (Nodding) Nodding. I agree with Gary. Unless someone has actually seen these people as physically separate individuals — it sounds like they’re the same person.

  85. katiebird, I think there are a lot of us out here. My daughter calls us the quiet ones.

    I’m only “out” with my daughter and my husband. My mother and son think I’m voting for McKinney and the folks I work with assume that I’m voting for Obama. I realize that it’s useless to try to talk sense with them. I slipped up a little bit at the office today and went on a rant about how stupid it was for Obama to pick Biden with his connections to the predatory credit card industry and I could see that I really baffled my coworker. He quickly changed the subject.

  86. William — the problem is you seem to think we have a choice we don’t actually have. Democrats in Congress led the charge for the big giveaway to Wall St. That rewards them greedily buying and selling risky securitized mortgages, which they knew they couldn’t value properly.

    The choice now is between rewarding Wall St., people who are financial professionals and should have known better, who were making money hand over fist and bought into the ridiculous idea that the housing market would keep going up and up forever, just so they could make ever more money hand over fist, and helping people stay in their homes. Even if a signficant part of the people in trouble were overreaching in buying, I pick homeowners.

    Home ownership is the American dream. We all ingest that mythology our whole lives. Who doesn’t want to own their own house? Who wouldn’t want to believe that with housing prices rising they could refinance their way out of crappy loan terms after a year or two?

    Stabilizing the housing market not only helps stabilize the market, it also helps stabilize communities, from paying property taxes so schools can continue to run to supporting area businesses, to just allowing families to stay in one place.

    I’m not crazy about helping out the home flippers (which McCain’s proposal does not do, primary residence only) or encouraging moral hazard on the consumer end. But preventing it in the future is pretty easy — reinstate rational credit restrictions on homebuyers going forward, no more of these ARMs or jumbo ARMS when people can’t pay, or escalation clauses, or liar’s loans, etc. However, writing a blank check to gigantic banks who are too big to fail does nothing to prevent the next bubble and subsequent crash, because there’s nothing to keep them from being too big to fail again. Not even stricter regulation will do it, because with aggregate sums of money so huge for banks and the people in them, even breaking the law is no deterrent. (hello, Enron!)

    The choice is: help homeowners keep their homes or help Wall St. play the moral hazard game even bigger and better. I pick homeowners. And I say that as one of the people who doesn’t own my own home specifically because I was careful with my money and didn’t overleverage myself. I live in one of the highest home-price areas in the country; I make a d*mn decent salary yet I’m priced out of the market for 40 miles around. I do sort of resent that some people took on loans they couldn’t handle and will get (maybe) to stay in places way above their means, while I write a rent check each month and pine to be able afford even the most modest home. On the other hand, I also think ‘there, but for the grace of god…’ because if I were a little less educated about how the housing market works I could have been one of them. And I try look past my personal resentment to how to best this country out of this mess. Feeding the black gaping maw of Wall St. isn’t it.

  87. (giggle) gxm, That’s happened to me too!

  88. Well, I guess we are the last paranoid holdouts. I just read masslib’s post. She actually seems happy now that she believes Obama will win. I don’t really think the time has come to start worrying about how we will deal with an Obama presidency. Frankly, if he wins, the Democratic party will be lost to the FDR/JFK/LBJ Democrats.

    How do you plan ahead to deal with the presidency of a man with no ideology, no values, no core principles? If what we have seen in the Campaign means anything, Obama will be a lot like George W. Bush. Obama is stubborn, humorless, thin skinned, and cannot accept suggestions from anyone who doesn’t bow down and worship him.

    All I know is that in October of 2004, I was convinced that Kerry would win. He was leading in the national polls and looked very good in the electoral count. I was so convinced that he would win, that I was actually excited as I went about my daily routine. I thought we were going to be rid of Bush and it would be “happy days are here again.” And just look what happened.

  89. katiebird–yeah totally. People are afraid to speak up, especially at work. Even my sister, who’s very outspoken, just listens to some of the things some of her friends say because she’s too tired to get into it and doesn’t see them often.

    gary, they could be married or related, living in the same house. Or the computer could have cleaned the cache and they forgot what name they used and had to change it.

  90. The reason Obama does not like this plan is because it would not make any money for his Bosses on Wall St.

  91. I have nightmares where I’m being chased by angry sockpuppets

  92. Paris has the jump on being a ‘fake President” (don’t tell Barkey):


  93. Seriously, If that’s the case (roommates) then they can explain it. Otherwise, it’s just weird. Especially if they’re all hanging out at the same sites.

  94. I have to wonder what samples they used in those PA polls

  95. “I considered making a sockpuppet once. But what if it didn’t like me?”

    LOL I’ve heard nothing but good things about you from the sock community. Marionettes are sort of on the fence, though.

  96. BB:

    They’re both rays of sunshine

  97. yes, william, liliam, b matthews et al….is a troll…this was just posted on an older post under the name palinpal (but same IP)

    You erased my last post. Isn’t it okay to think Palin is better than Hillary. She even laughed when a talk show host called Lydia Green a cancer and a bitch. She really speaks her mind. She was overheard saying “So Sambo beat the bitch” after the democratic primary. Boy does she have spunk!

    how weird is that….spread the word to whatever other blog he/she has been haunting….

  98. All I know is that in October of 2004, I was convinced that Kerry would win. He was leading in the national polls and looked very good in the electoral count. I was so convinced that he would win, that I was actually excited as I went about my daily routine. I thought we were going to be rid of Bush and it would be “happy days are here again.” And just look what happened.

    Me TOO!! Bostonboomer — I remember feeling the same way. Right up to that last debate when all of a sudden for no reason Kerry said, “Lesbian” and it was like hearing a balloon pop. For the last two weeks of the election it was the only word anyone said. And Kerry lost.

  99. he’s been sockpuppeting around here since april…

  100. John Smith, on October 8th, 2008 at 8:18 pm Said:
    The reason Obama does not like this plan is because it would not make any money for his Bosses on Wall St.

    Exactly…there are borrowed trillions to siphon off yet

  101. By the way….sorry for having butted in.

    I am a long time lurker who has never posted before.

    But this issue is do close to home for me that I am actually considering changing my vote from Nader (NoBama for me) to McCain based on this alone.

    They say that all politics is local. I guess they are right.

  102. William sure disappeared didn’t he?

    In criminal law we call that “conciousness of guilt”

  103. myiq…he’s busy trolling old posts…maybe he hasn’t even noticed yet that we’ve caught wise….

  104. Hey, madamab – you go girl!!!

    Although this didn’t solve anything – I’m sure the guy that did it felt really good once it was done and it might make some of you feel good to – I know I had an “Hah” when I read it:
    “CNBC confirms that someone did indeed march up to Lehman Brothers CEO Dick Fuld and “knock him out cold” right after the bankruptcy was announced. Said Vanity Fair’s Vicki Ward: “I’d have done the same too.” … Ward discuss[ed] Fuld’s apparent lack of contrition over his shambolic mismanagement of the company, and notes that the rumor of Fuld getting decked has been confirmed by two extremely reliable sources”

  105. Gary, the thing that broke me with that b matthews was that he/she never actually conversed. It was just those random all caps exclamations and poof — gone for hours until the next one.

  106. Sometimes I wonder if you are all sockpuppets

  107. (waving) I am — wanna look?

  108. As a sales person, I have a problem with people resenting a trip that highlights the success of it’s successful employees. If the AIG trip was scheduled, those that went were entitled by their work ethic and success, the trip should not have been cancelled. They are not responsible for the mistakes made by management. Congress is on vacation. Bush is on vacation. The Supreme Court has been on vacation. All of them certainly haven’t done anything to earn a vacation or a trip based on their performance.

    Stop the Outrage!

  109. I have narrowed this story down — not sharing all the details – you’ll get the gist of it

    Last night before the debate I was in my office and a guy was standing in front of our house flipping me off with both fingers. So, I headed for the door – I went outside and remained calm – i know hard to believe — he couldn’t understand the Hillary sign, the Vote no on Prop 8 sign — when my spouse, Carolina, popped her head out the door he says — Oh, I get it, I get it now (meaning we’re lesbians).
    He couldn’t understand the McCain / Palin sign. I explained it — I like him for his experience, statesmanship and he’s trustworthy – same things I saw in Hillary – McCain says what he’s going to do and does it. I told the guy I came outside to tell him flipping me off is impolite — he says – this is a freedom of speech so fuck you — I told him the conversation was over I turned around – headed for the door and I said — Here, lets call it even and I flipped him off. The then started screaming / shouting – you’re a fucking lesbian bitch — by that time i was at the top step – Carolina has the door open and i turn around put my hands up in the air and say here we go, here we go — he continues screaming.

    oh, did I mention he was black?

    OK — so we are 2 votes in a state that will go blue – California — WTF I say — why are the obots so angry ?? here we are allegedly in the most liberal state / city / area of the united states and i am being threatened. we’ve had notes dropped off on our doorstep — i see people taking photo’s of our sign / house — constant comments.

  110. bostonboomer: Exactly. Last night I told the story of what happened to me on Election Day 2004. I was working for the Kerry campaign and I was so sure that he was going to win even on Election Day. I was SHOCKED after a day of getting people to the polls that it looked like Kerry might be in trouble. It didn’t seep in that Kerry might lose the election until nightfall.

    Yes, masslib is giddy that Obama is in the lead and she has officially declared victory for the Obama campaign. This is what is bothersome. They believe that just because we aren’t going to declare for Obama that we don’t live in reality. I have said a million times on this blog that it will be an uphill battle for McCain from now until Election Day. I said the same thing about Hillary even though I held out hope that she could win until the day she suspended her campaign.

    It is people like masslib who are not preparing themselves for an Obama victory. I am still holding out hope for McCain because I am hoping that it is he who will take on the sh*t awaiting the next president so that there is actual hope of electing a REAL Democrat in 2012. If Obama is elected, I am absolutely prepared to expect Obama to FAIL. I am prepared to HOLD HIS FEET TO THE FIRE when he turns his back on UHC and a mortgage plan to save homeowners. This site will continue to fight for Democratic principles regardless of who we voted for in this election. I fear that places like TalkLeft and Alegre’s Corner will only make up excuses because Obama is a “Democrat”.

    We seem to be the only ones left living in reality and fully expecting what we are going to get from an Obama presidency.

  111. lol…I’ve actually met katie, so I know she’s real! 🙂 missed y ou around here katie!!!

  112. (whispering) I”m not enjoying Corrente since I got back. Did I miss something?

  113. How do we know you’re real?

  114. does not surprise me that Obama would not put the people first…he said the same thing about Hillary’s health care plan…

    …how anyone can believe a word this matter utters is beyond me…if he wins, all bets are off on anything he has promised…except to his buddies…

  115. Oh, katiebird!

    You missed the blogfeud last week!

  116. Regarding the current discussion: a lot of my dear friends have decided to support Barack (and a lot haven’t). Those who support him now for the most part are just resigned that nothing much is really going to change.

    I wonder if this resignation, along with the PUMA desire to fix things, will result in a new party being formed like in so many other countries.

    I come here and people are so REASONABLE in their thinking. I think to myself, we are the ones who should be in charge. Unfortunately, I don’t think we are wealthy enough collectively so our only hope is to deal with things at the grass roots level like RD, Heidi, Murphy, Lynne, Larry and so on do. It doesn’t give me short-term hope but it does give me long-term hope. And I honestly believe that Hillary (and Bill, for that matter) ain’t even close to done yet. I believe that the two of them will ultimately be listened to. I am only afraid of how low we will go as a nation before people finally listen.

    Just my humble opinion.


  117. but seriously, I just posted his/her latest above under the name “palinpal” and it is a nasty troll dropping…what I think is weird is that the majority of the posts are “normal”…I think somebody was playing undercover or something..lol

  118. bostonboomer

    could your post on 10-3 be related to what Carville said today?

  119. The economic downturn has definitely helped Obama. Yeah, there are a lot of Obama skeptics who may not voice their opposition. However, you would expect those people to be the same before, during and after the economic firestorm. Obama’s uptick was real, but it seems to be waning (go look at RCP). My guess is that the economic woes turned people to Obama because they were scared of their economic security and naturally went to the person with a “D” after their name. If/when the economic uncertainty wanes a little, I expect the polls to tighten. Another thing to keep in mind is that Obama’s actual numbers during the primaries weren’t far off from what the polls were saying.

  120. Are the majority of my posts normal?

    I hope not

  121. (dropping the sock puppet thing for a moment)

    Blog-Feud? That sounds interesting! What happened?

  122. I agree that something needs to be done to help homeowners and it is appalling that the Democrats (again) folded and gave in to the Bush admin on the idiotic bailout plan. That said McCain’s plan is seriously, but not irreparably, flawed.

    One problem is that it is too generous to the banks. He would buy mortgages at full value. Say you have a 100% mortgage on a $100,000 house that is now worth 80. McCain would give the bank 100 leaving the taxpayer holding the bag for the loss. Why not give the bank 90, sharing the loss, helping recapitalize the banking system, but inflicting some pain.

    Another problem, pointed out above, is it is too generous to those who took out bad loans. The solution for that is to have the U.S. Government have a lien on the property so if the owner eventually sells at a profit they have to pay back the government for the amount it paid the bank (10K in my example above). Maybe do it as some percentage of the profit up to the amount the govt put out.

    I’m also not sure limiting to primary residence makes sense. It sounds and feels good but if you live in an area where lots of flippers are defaulting your property value is getting killed. If stabilizing the housing market is the goal we may have to help them too (Ick, I know). Maybe give them more punitive payback terms if they make a profit.

  123. by normal I meant not trollish. you’re a lot of things myiq, but I wouldn’t call you a troll

  124. We got called bad names by other bloggers

  125. katiebird, on October 8th, 2008 at 8:03 pm Said:

    I was listening to NPR this afternoon as I was driving around and the show was all about racism and Obama’s chances for election. It was almost like the ONLY thing that would keep Obama from the White House is racist attitudes. They didn’t even hint at any other issue.


    This is a good point, KB. I feel it on my campus, where voter registration and BO pressure has been intertwined. You wouldn’t even be able even admit not voting for BO, and you would definitely be called r@cist. I walk through the campus thinking what a chill climate it is for debate, how narrow and stale and homogenous it is. And yet, how self-congratulatory.

    Moreover, I’ll keep on saying it: these people don’t even give a damn about r@cism. It’s a plaything to them.

  126. My idea for a McCain ad would be along the lines of “Change you can count on”. Have Obama promising to vote against FISA and then voting for it. Obama was against preconditions to meet with Iran before he was for them. Etc. You’d have to be a little careful not to reemphasize the “change” narrative so you might need to start out with something like: “Obama talks about change, but the only change he’s delivered is to change his positions…”

  127. Amusing post from Hotair.com

    Rush has it right. Conservatives need to save the nation from Obama by dragging McCain and all his big government nonsense across the finish line. Then conservatives need to regroup and save the GOP and the nation from McCain and the fools that support him when he comes up with these ideas.

    Is there anybody in both parties that is really happy about their candidate?

  128. The PA polls assume that there will be a million more democrats (that is about 12%) then republicans voting. Now in 2006 the exit poll reported that 38% rep 43% dem 19% ind. That is a 5% advantage for democrats. But I believe that was more a vote against Bush and Republican congress then anything else. Bush is not running this time and the republicans are not in charge of congress. In 2004 it was much closer. It was 39% rep 41% dem 20% ind. I believe it will be the same this time around. If they keep advertising that BO is ahead by 12% point a lots of BO supporters will not vote. Most of his supporters are in the densely populated areas where you have to stand in line for hours to cast your vote. For some reason we are being expected to believe that all the registered voters really care about this election. One thing that has been certain in all the elections. Democrats out number republicans and they don’t turn out as the republicans do. So take all the polls with a grain of salt.

  129. Comment by Morgan | 2008-10-08 18:49:03

    I wish, but I don’t know how to convince Obamamaniacs– I just got hung up on by my closest friend of over 20 years over this whole thing.

    I wondered aloud if anyone would vote for someone who launched their political career at Timothy McVeigh’s house. And I asked what was the difference in their intents?

    No answer, just “I love him” and “I think he’s great” and *click*.

    Man Obama sucks ass.

  130. Simofish–wow. That’s unreal. The day I scraped the Dem sticker off my car was the day I quit advertising which side I was on. There are too many crazy people in this country right now to endanger yourself and your spouse. Sometimes prudence has to win over your need to express your convictions. I learned this the hard way in the past with a somewhat similar experience. I admire your strength and determination, but I don’t want to see you become a victim because of them.

  131. Don’t worry, Myiq nothing you post is “normal

  132. I forgot to mention that only 5,731,942 out of the 8.5 million people voted.

  133. Simofish — That anger. It’s so common among Obots. It scares me to death. I’m worried that you have to be anywhere near that guy.

  134. I don’t get the hostility thing with the obots, particularly the male ones. It’s very very scary and beyond out of line. And then there’s Obama who does nothing to rein in his angry minions. Uh, yeah, he’s gonna make a great world leader.

  135. LOL…just doing some more looking up on lililiam and william…sometimes he even talks to himself…creepy.

  136. gxm, I have an office full of women obots. they make me crazy. I can’t believe that intelligent women would treat another woman the way the talk about palin….there truly must be a special place in hell…

  137. Ms Palin should get her teeth into this stuff, as well as the news media.
    Of course our Liberal Media would definitely shy away from this, it’s not
    what they want to talk about. A lot of money was flowing around; there
    must be a track in the sand somewhere. Ted
    I received the following from an old Air Force fighter pilot friend and
    found it intriguing. What do you think?

    To All My Friends, this is very important; please take the time to read

    This election has me very worried. So many things to consider. About a
    year ago I would have voted for Obama. I have changed my mind three times
    since than. I watch all the news channels, jumping from one to
    another. I must say this drives my husband crazy. But, I feel if you
    view MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News, you might get some middle ground to work
    with. About six months ago, I started thinking ‘where did the money come
    from for Obama’. I have four daughters who went to College, and we were
    middle class, and money was tight. We (including my girls) worked hard
    and there were lots of student loans.

    I started looking into Obama’s life.

    Around 1979 Obama started college at Occidental in California. He is very
    open about his two years at Occidental, he tried all kinds of drugs and
    was wasting his time but, even though he had a brilliant mind, did not
    apply himself to his studies. ‘Barry’ (that was the name he used all his
    life) during this time had two roommates, Muhammad Hasan Chandoo and Wahid
    Hamid, both from Pakistan. During the summer of 1981, after his second
    year in college, he made a ’round the world’ trip. Stopping to see his
    mother in Indonesia, next Hyderabadin India, three weeks in Karachi,
    Pakistanwhere he stayed with his roommate’s family, then off to Africato
    visit his father’s family. My question – Where did he get the money for
    this trip? Nether I , nor any one of my children would have had money for
    a trip like this when they where in college. When he came back he started
    school at ColumbiaUniversityin New York. It is at this time he wants
    everyone to call him Barack – not Barry. Do you know what the tuition is
    at Columbia? It’s not cheap to say the least! Where did he get money
    for tuition? Student Loans? Maybe. After Columbia, he went to Chicagoto
    work as a Community Organizer for $12,000 a year. Why Chicago? Why not
    New York? He was already living in New York.

    By ‘chance’ he met Antoin ‘Tony’ Rezko, born in AleppoSyria, and a real
    estate developer in Chicago. Rezko has been convicted of fraud and
    bribery this year. Rezko, was named ‘Entrepreneur of the Decade’ by the
    Arab-American Business and Professional Association’. About two years
    later, Obama entered HarvardLawSchool. Do you have any idea what tuition
    is for HarvardLawSchool? Where did he get the money for LawSchool? More
    student loans? After Law school, he went back to Chicago. Rezko offered
    him a job, which he turned down. But, he did take a job with Davis,
    Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Guess what? They represented ‘Rezar’ which is
    Rezko’s firm. Rezko was one of Obama’s first major financial contributors
    when he ran for office in Chicago. In 2003, Rezko threw an early
    fundraiser for Obama which Chicago Tribune reporter David Mendelland
    claims was instrumental in providing Obama with ‘seed money’ for his U.S.
    Senate race. In 2005, Obama purchased a new home in Kenwoood District of
    Chicago for $1.65 million (less than asking price). With ALL those
    Student Loans – Where did he get the money for the property? On the same
    day Rezko’s wife, Rita, purchased the adjoining empty lot for full price.
    The London Times reported that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born Billionaire
    loaned Rezko $3.5 million three weeks before Obama’s new home was
    purchased. Obama met Nadhmi Auchi many times with Rezko.

    Now, we have Obama running for President. Valerie Jarrett, was Michele
    Obama’s boss. She is now Obama’s chief advisor and he does not make any
    major decisions without talking to her first. Where was Jarrett born?
    Ready for this? Shiraz, Iran! Do we see a pattern here? Or am I going

    On May 10, 2008 The Times reported, Robert Malley, advisor to Obama, was
    ‘sacked’ after the press found out he was having regular contacts with
    ‘Hamas’, which controls Gazaand is connected with Iran. This past week,
    buried in the back part of the papers, Iraqi newspapers reported that
    during Obama’s visit to Iraq, he asked their leaders to do nothing about
    the war until after he is elected, and he will ‘Take care of things’.

    Oh, and by the way, remember the college roommates that where born in
    Pakistan? They are in charge of all those ‘small’ Internet campaign
    contributions for Obama. Where is that money coming from? The poor and
    middle class in this country? Or could it be from the Middle East?

    And the final bit of news. On September 7, 2008, The Washington Times
    posted a verbal slip that was made on ‘This Week’ with George
    Stephanapoulos. Obama on talking about his religion said, ‘My Muslim
    faith’. When questioned, ‘he made a mistake’. Some mistake!

    All of the above information I got on line. If you would like to check it
    – Wikipedia, encyclopedia, Barack Obama; Tony Rezko; Valerie Jarrett:
    Daily Times – Obama visited Pakistanin 1981; The Washington Times –
    September 7, 2008; The Times May 10, 2008.

    Now the BIG question – If I found out all this information on my own, Why
    haven’t all of our ‘intelligent’ members of the press been reporting this?

    A phrase that keeps ringing in my ear – ‘Beware of the enemy from

    New MapQuest Local shows what’s happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!

    © 2008 Microsoft Privacy Legal Help Central Account Feedback

  138. carol, Obama IS an ass….

  139. katiebird — Carolina is freaking out. We’re thinking of taking down both signs – No on Prop 8 / McCain signs — we are a bit afraid of what will happen on Nov 4th when Johnny wins.

    I am telling you — we are getting a lot of attention. Doesn’t help we’ve been on TV several times for Hillary and McCain.

  140. gary – that was someone else’s quote.

  141. We really shouldn’t spend the money. We need to save it to give to A.I.G. next time they need a retreat. Going bust is hard work!


  142. simofish — Don’t worry nothing will happen. People who supported Obama will be in such disbelief that they won’t be able to move.

  143. I think it has to do with the Messianic thing, too. Anything you do in your righteous cause is justified. Anyone who stands in opposition to your righteousness is evil. And then you have the whole group feeding off each other and trying to outdo each other with zealotry–great mix! Not Bushesque in the least.

  144. William is actually a good writer. Check out some of his posts at bitterpoliticz about Obama, Hillary or the Democratic party. Read Vampire which is about Obama.

  145. Simofish, PLEASE take down your signs. That guy sounds like a dangerous wack-job and I’d even consider lying to him about supporting Obama.

    I don’t believe crazy people deserve the truth.

  146. simofish, if you’re worried, you should take it down. Once the signs are gone they won’t remember which house is yours and you won’t be a target anymore. They don’t seem that organized or bright.

  147. Palin is on Hannity and Don Knotts, I mean Colms

  148. simofish, that’s called terrorism. I wouldn’t fall for it. They are cowards….but you have to do what you think is best for your safety.

  149. simofish @ 8:27 pm: Ugh, it seems that guy was just full of hate. Kudos to you for even trying to talk to him.

  150. I agree with Seriously and Katiebird, Simofish – it’s not worth getting hurt -take them down and use the real weapon – your vote and your friends votes.

  151. downticket, he is a troll…not sure what his agenda is, but he’s a troll.

  152. Oh, that b. mathews. I actually have been deleting those when I see them. The all caps and then sometimes putting in extreme stuff about Obama that isn’t true. We have enough truth without that.

  153. AAA gal,

    LOL! Don Knots. That’s who he reminds me of. Good call.

  154. Gary, I am lililam and I am not a troll-why do you think I am? William and I both post at Bitterpoliticz, but we are different people,as Regency and Heidi will attest. I have met Simofish-I am the woman in the Hillary ballot video.

  155. My vote for McCain Palin is signed, sealed and delivered here in CA. I know this state will go blue. But I am happy that today everywhere I went doing errands I found McCain Palin signs. These are new signs because they were not up last week. I also know that where I live, it is typically Republican (cattle, agriculture, rugged western culture, hunting, fishing, mountaineering). I do not fool myself but I do empathize with those of you who are surrounded by Obamabots. It is only so painful because they are so incredibly rude, righteous, and wrong. I have decided that I am going to practice humility in the future, especially in a moment of triumph. So I have canceled those calls to my Obot friendzies scheduled for 5:00 am Nov 5th that say “neener, neener, neener followed by loud sirens and firecrackers.

  156. yeah, b matthews is also william. as is fran, peggy, erikaAZ, lily, tim, ekittyglendower…the list goes on and on…

  157. Fuzzyone…I concur. I was listening to Noriel Rubini describe his ideas to address the crisis. He mentioned in one part to shore up the homeowners, not the speculators, because of the impact it would have on the neighborhood, the neighborhoods impact on the community, the community on the area, etc.. It does a bit to shore up local industries, local businesses, the local tax base, etc.. Helping/covering for Wall Street succeeds in doing just and only that. There are more terrible times ahead it seems because of up coming loan resets, and the eventual and gradual discovery/revealing of what the actual toxic assets are. FYI-reported on ‘This modern world’…the unregulated Credit Default Swap market is more than 60 trillion dollars, world wide. The U.S. economy is 14 trillion.This is so far from over. Give me hell, Hill.

  158. Gary,

    I’ve noticed there are some people who post comments that are anti-Obama, but extreme enough and wierd enough to make us look bad. I delete them. I think they are O-bots trying to smear us.

  159. That’s just wierd, Gary. None of them caught on as regulars that people enjoy responding to, though.

  160. simofish, you might also want to have one of those digital cameras handy—the kind which take videos as well as photos—in case the guy comes back. It would be good to have him on record.

  161. So McCain & Palin with Hannity:
    – There is a gap between Obama words & his record
    – He wanted to tell americans that he & Sarah will focus on families with children with special need like autism, etc.

  162. liliam—then why do you have the same IP as the person who just posted this

    You erased my last post. Isn’t it okay to think Palin is better than Hillary. She even laughed when a talk show host called Lydia Green a cancer and a bitch. She really speaks her mind. She was overheard saying “So Sambo beat the bitch” after the democratic primary. Boy does she have spunk!

    you are a troll. and you’re banned so go away.

  163. Simofish–consider keeping a camera or vidcam handy if you should choose to keep your signs up. People are much less likely to become unruly if they know there will be video footage. And make a police report the next time something like that happens. No physical contact has to be made for it to be considered an assault.

  164. Being Debtor Bankruptcy attorney I happen to know a little about this subject, so pardon the longish post.
    1. William — the whole stereotype about these loans being $500k to irresponsible people is just that — a stereotype akin to Reagen’s “Welfare Queen — which shouldn’t be given any quarter by true progressives. While a very small percentage of these loans may exist the vast majority of these loans were made to honest, hard working people, most of whom were never late on paying their bills before, on very modest homes. I see people every day with $100k — $120k homes who started out pay $700 a month for their mortgage & the ARM kicks in and they are paying $1200. Did they perhaps not do enough investigating before they signed the docs? Sure, but the FACT is that mortgage brokers were pushing these loans like you cannot believe — they even pushed them on people who qualified for FHA fixed rate loans — because the money to be made was better on the sub-prime loans. That is the reality of what happened — greedy lenders preyed on the dreams of average, hard working people. You don’t have to like that, you don’t have to believe that, but it is the truth.
    2. The people who McCain’s plan hurt is the lenders. The fact is the lenders would rather the homes foreclose because if the loans are renegotiated down it opens the possibility of the lenders being sued by the security cabals who really “own” the mortgages. If the house forecloses, insurance & re-insurance steps in to cover the liability.
    3. Some people were confused about “cram downs.” In a cram down, the mortgage would be reduced to the actual value of the home but the excess would just disappear (i.e. get “cramed down” into the value of the home). That is, if your mortgage is $100k but the home is only worth $80, your new mortgage would be $80 & the $20 would be a loss to the lender with no way to recover it. McCain’s plan, as I understand it, would actually pay the lender that $20k — so it is not a “cram down.” (Cram down provisions also include reducing the interest rate on the loan to a conventional fixed rate — McCain’s plan does allow for this).
    That’s all I can think of for now. If I think of more, I’ll let y’all know.:-)

  165. I’m listening to PUMA radio. An Obamabot is calling in asking how we can vote for McCain over a Democrat. I think Murphy should mention this Homeowners Rescue Plan.

  166. garychapelhill, ITA. The women obots are like the mean girl clique in high school. It’s inexcusable for adult women to attack Palin in such a nasty, demeaning way. Even if you don’t agree with her politics, she’s a successful and charismatic politician and we should all be proud of her instead of tearing her down in such a juvenile way.

  167. Ablebodied – what is “this modern world”? This American Life (NPR) spent the hour last weekend on the same subject (CDS). It was really well researched and presented as only (I thought) TAL is wont to do.

  168. Gary-I don’t know what IP address that person has, but i am not a troll-I am a staunch Hill supporter and am voting for McPalin-

  169. Speaking of public radio, they played an Obama soundbite from his stump speech. In the soundbite, Obama said something like, “I’m gonna wake up every morning and work hard for you.”

    Wasn’t that Hillary’s line?

  170. McCain & Palin will be talking about Obama’s questionable associations on the Hannity interview after the commercial.

  171. bostonboomer,
    did you see my question to you at 8:31, or are you politely ignoring me?

  172. Anyone watching the interview on Hannity…..what do you think of the format of interviewing the presidential & VP candidates together?

  173. Oh yeah — anyone who still votes for Obama believing they are voting for the Democrat are lying to themselves or delusional. No ifs ands or buts about it. I’ve said this a million times, but I will say it again keeping homes from going into foreclosure & giving homeowners the chance to stay in their homes paying mortgages is as good for or better for the economy as ensuring the banks have the ability to lend. More then that it is the fair thing & right thing to do How anyone can justify NOT doing it and call themselves a Democrat is beyond me.

  174. Disenfranchised Voter,

    That’s exactly what happened to me. On election day in 2004, I was ecstatic. Even though I wasn’t thrilled with Kerry as a candidate I was so happy that we were going to get a Dem in the WH. Remember, Bush was told he had lost the election. They broke the news to him on his campaign plane after the exist polls were leaked in the late afternoon. But the exist polls were “wrong.” I was devastated for weeks after Kerry lost, especially because he gave up so easily.

  175. Someone must be copying my IP address-I don’t know how that works, as I am not very computer savvy. William is not a troll, either, although I saw someone post to his name at noquarter a few weeks ago, and It was not the William we know.We both have the same internet provider, but not address. This is very hurtful.

  176. sofiaNY, I like the format. In fact, I’m thinking about voting for them just ’cause it doesn’t annoy me to listen to them. Even when I don’t agree.

  177. kitchen,

    I was about to reply to you, but I was going to look up my post from 10/3. Could you remind me what it was about?

    Please don’t assume I’m ignoring you. That’s really unfair. I am usually doing other things than just reading this blog. It is also possible to innocently miss someone’s comment.

  178. Newsflash — FOX reported that Sarah Palin is distantly related to Princess Di & FDR! That’s a great combo, isn’t it? 🙂
    Put on your reddest lipstick, your highest heels & your chicest pantsuit and Vote for the Woman, It’s Important!

  179. The complete irony of the female ‘bots tearing down Palin with such venom. Why this continues to fly over their heads is beyond me. The Democratic Party has managed to make themselves look like hypocritical dinosaurs with all the “qualified” speech and sexist remarks.

  180. bostonboomer

    sorry, didn’t mean it that way. my fault

    your post regarding army brigade in US
    Carville’s comment is uppost by Anne at 7:05

  181. Garychapelhill, I returned to see your comment above. I am not lillilam, who is a woman. I am not any of those other people. I am one person, a man, who lives in Southern California. I have one IP: address. I have written essays at Bitterpoliticz, all under my name, which is William. So I do not have th slightest idea in the world why you should possibly think that I have more than one screen name, here or anywhere. I do not have the slightest idea what made you think anything different..

  182. Gary,

    Can Simofish vouch for lilliam? I don’t really remember her, but if she actually met Simofish in the flesh, maybe she’s not a sock puppet? Did you check the IP on her most recent comment?

  183. Are you guys watching the Hannity interview with Palin & McCain? Their first interview together. They make a good team. Strong emphasis on BO’s truthfulness, judgment and character.

    I think he’s just swell…

  184. Everyone — thanks for all your support — I do have my video camera handy — but I am thinking we’ll take down the signs this weekend. We won’t be here on Halloween and that makes me nervous too !!

    I love this site !!!

  185. de ja vu with you on Kerry. I could not get out of bed the day after and was really pathetic for a week and it took me until HRC announced and started running to really recover. (And we know how that worked out.) I was not for Kerry so much as against Bush. But Hill, a whole different story.

    Palin has helped me revive a bit. Sure would like to see Ms. Lipstick In High Heels get to move the family into that old Blair House.

  186. I’ll vouch for William!! William is one of the most loyal HRC supporters. Extremely intelligent, thoughtful and principled. We posted together at TM for months, and he did travel over to bitterpoliticz.

    Hi William!

  187. KB I like the format too. They are definitely easy on the ears. I disagree with some of there positions as well. Hillary is my candidate and after that fiasco of a roll call at the convention, I was done!

    After 3 days of trashing of Palin from the left, I started to follow McCain & Palin.

  188. bostonboomer, I don’t know if simofish can vouch for him/her, but they have the same IP, b matthews all of a sudden knew not to use all caps, and one of them has said some really vile things. I don’t know how they could have the same IP and not be the same person. I don’t care who he/she knows or where she/he blogs. I say he/she is a troll. maaybe had a lot of people fooled for a long time. He/she had me fooled too…

  189. What is Barry going to say about Palin’s relatives. Di and FDR are quite a bit upscale from the Cheney’s.

  190. RD & Sheri ATE a tr*ll on No We Won’t!

    Good job!

    Kool Aid Obotulism victim said NOTHING to defend why we supports Obambi.

  191. sorry fif, he’s a troll

  192. McCain’s on Hannity, wearing an ORANGE TIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

  193. Now I have read more comments upthread, all wrong. William “disappeared” because he had other things to do, including taking a phone call from someone important, I, William, have never had one other name on a blog in my life, which Garychapelhill could easily confirm by noting the IP: address. I mean, really; this is insulting. It is not my blog, I am not essential to the blog; I like to read it and add my comments. Garychapelhill owes me an apology for being utterly, completely wrong, and compounding his mistake in multiple posts about it.

  194. kitchen,

    I don’t think so. I think Carville was just playing the race card as per orders of the Obama campaign. The guy has sold out, at least for now. Unfortunately, there are people who are racist and will not vote for a black man. In the primaries, Obama always underperfomed the polls by about 6 points. He underperformed the exit polls too, because some people lie to pollsters. If he loses, he loses. If there are riots (which I doubt will happen), they will be handled by law enforcement.

    I think the army regiment is the beginning of efforts to control the American people in case they rebel against the government that has stolen all their tax money and sentenced their children and grandchildren to serfdom.

  195. we = HE

  196. Gary,

    I’m sorry to hear that. Whoever is doing this needs to get a life. Who has time for something like that?

  197. fif, thank you. This is really quite something; like out of a weird movie. Gary, this bp matthews or whoever does not have the same IP address as I, since I have one computer, a laptop, and live alone. So you are wrong. Well meaning, I am sure, but wrong. Completely wrong. And I am sure that there are many more important things to discuss here than me, but you owe me an apology. You will probably realize it eventually.

  198. Sinofish: My hubby and I are 2 no’s on 8. Out here in the red mountains I have seen nothing on it—no signs supporting it and none against it. I don’t think it’s a big issue and I think it will not pass.

  199. gary: is it possible they all work at the same company?

  200. sophie, no. it is the same person, same IP address…even if it were the same “company” or a shared ISP, what kind of coincidence is that?? 30 people just happen to share a computer to comment here. No. it’s a troll..

  201. Carville is no different than most who have defected from the HRC camp–they don’t want to be perceived as veering off from being part of the smug superior crowd. That Dem mantle is pretty hard to give up. Goes to show that so many people’s identities rely on peer identity. It’s good to be a loner sometimes.

  202. Can you say more on the Palin, McCain interview on Hannity? I do not have tv access and would like to know how that is going. I hope Colmes Barney Fife is not as obnoxious, interrupting and Obama kissing as he usually is.

  203. gary: I am shocked. Are you sure someone is not just impersonating William, using his tag name, because he has been unbelievably eloquent re: HRC for months.

  204. gary: check with Heidi Li. She knows the William I am talking about and maybe she can add something to the inquiry.

  205. Keeping this site moderated is a Heck of a Job — and Gary’s doing great. If someone has an explanation for why they have the Exact Same IP address as known trolls, we might be interested.

    But, what are we supposed to do? (that’s a rhetorical question) Trolls switch names all the time. We’ve got to deal with IP addresses.

  206. fif, I’ll ask, but it is the exact same IP address, along with other pieces of evidence, but the IP address thing is enough on its own frankly.

  207. And my final comment to garychapelhill: I am a member of the State Bar of California, a graduate of USC Law School Class of 1977, and so registered with the Bar. And I don’t play around with different screen names; that would be weird and juvenile, neither of which I am. I repeat for the final time, you are utterly wrong; and you keep compounding it by writing it over and over. But there are more important things for us all to be concerned about than this foolishness, so I am not going to keep asserting my individual, verifiable, singular identity in the face of gary’s repeated erroneous assertions. If gary ever wants to apologize to me for them, someone let me know.

  208. good point

    just sticks in my mind what BO’s cousin (Odinga) did (or actually, DIDN’T do) to get power in Kenya.

  209. Keeping this site moderated is a Heck of a Job — and Gary’s doing great. If someone has an explanation for why they have the Exact Same IP address as known trolls, we might be interested.

    But, what are we supposed to do? (that’s a rhetorical question) Trolls switch names all the time. We’ve got to deal with IP addresses.

  210. Gary- we all share aol,I guess,is that what you mean by IP address?If that is the case,you will be banning many well meaning people- you have hurt my feelings as well as William’s, I am sure,who has always been a strong Hill supporter. Emma and I met Simone at Hill’s July 31st event-i am on the video-but you have alienated some good people here. I am very shy,so have not posted here often, but if you search for my posts, you will see that I am not a troll.

  211. mawm and i live in the same house, we are sitting right next to each other, using the same router, and WE have different IP addresses.

  212. OK — so we are 2 votes in a state that will go blue – California — WTF I say — why are the obots so angry ?? here we are allegedly in the most liberal state / city / area of the united states and i am being threatened.


    I would take the signs down, no one is going to say a thing, especially us here. I took my Hillary bumper sticker off (I turned it into Hillary 2012) as my poor little car had all kinds of scratches in the most odd places. I took it off and it stopped.

    Luck for us our votes are a private and protected thing.

    Big cyber hug to you (both of you) and you have a friend in me if you need any assistance. I suspect it will get worse before it gets better.

    Corsi was release and is in London (on Hanity). He says he got e-mails from former allies of Odinga. They broke with Odinga over Odinga signing on a promise to support Sharia Law. He said Obama was actively supporting Odinga.

    So, we PUMAs knew from the get go, he wasn’t for us and the treatment of Hillary proved that to us. So, take care and take care of you and yours. You are in a tough spot and some times, doing things quietly is best. Please consider taking a photo of the man and e-mailing it out to friends you trust. Take care.

  213. Jangles,

    Barney Fife is totally, completely defending The Precious with all his heart and soul.

  214. I am off to take a nap, I can see I need it. 😦

  215. Anyone who remembers the Watts riots probably also remembers that almost all of that violence resulted in destruction of life and property in AA neighborhoods. I think if you look at the history of race riots in other urban centers the same is true. It is self-destructive. I think that would only cement a huge backward step for AA’s. MLK would not have approved; it is the fault line that goes through the AA community I think. SNCC, SDS and MLK, NAACP; black churches like the AME and those like TUCC.

  216. Jangles: it was a good interview. They talked about:

    *the huge gap between O’s rhetoric and his record re: taxes, spending, foreign policy, energy (nuclear/drilling).

    *Ayers: and his dishonesty re: their relationship, when he knew what, and what they did with the CAC in Chicago. They also touched on Wright, Rezko, ACORN, and others re: his judgment, honesty and character.

    They also talked about Fannie & Freddie’s role in the economic crisis, her role in his admin. (energy, reform, & special needs), and how they felt about each other. (They admire each other’s RECORDS as effective reformers.)

  217. OK, the repugs are going a little crazy too. On Michelle Malkins blog (please don’t roll your eyes – I had to see the reaction from the conservative side regarding McCain’s HOLC) someone wrote and others agreed that if McCain became pres then he’d override the repugs and would not let them filibuster, but if Obama won they could fight back and filibuster in Congress.

    If I could comment on that blog (not registered) I would have asked how they know there will be a Congress with Obama in power.

    What an election!!

  218. Gary, Heidi knows both of us.I have a personalletter from Hillary in acknowledgement of a UHC thesis I gave to her at the Los Altos gathering- I believe it is related to aol.

  219. thanks for the update BB. I hope Palin rips him a thread.

  220. Barney Fife is totally, completely defending The Precious with all his heart and soul.

    I can’t listen to a word out of his mouth. I absolutely hate the way he grovels for Barry. It doesn’t matter what the topic is, someone pulls the string in his back, and he sputters partisan talking points.

  221. William has numerous excellent essays on bitterpoliticz-i have one fromjust before the convention.

  222. thanks fif for the update. I think I can catch it later tonight on rerun. Sounds like it will be worth it.

  223. calling him a Barbie Doll would be an insult to Barbie

  224. Gary,

    Simofish has to have read these comments, and she has not said anything. Unfortunately, people do things like this. It’s a mystery to me why they do it, but they do.

  225. And a final point, for Gary to read: I am not very technological, but I am of the understanding that every computer has only one IP address. I do not know if clever people can get an IP address and “mock” it, or copy it. I hope not. I have one Toshiba laptop computer which I bought three or four years ago, and that’s all I have. And believe me, no one else has ever used it. So that’s all I can do, use my own first name as my blog name, and write comments. Whatever anyone else out there may be doing, or why, is completely beyond my knowledge, nor can I do anything about it. It doesn’t matter much; I can certainly live without adding comments here. But every single comment I have made here has been under my name, William, none other. And Gary, for someone who is so damned concerned about individual rights and repression, you might actually consider whether you are doing exactly what you decry, out of a mistake which you have made, or which someone may have for some weird reason led you to make. Since I have attacked Obama vociferously on Bitterpoliticz, it is very possible that one of the Obamabots has managed this. If so, that will be a victory for them, and a scary harbinger of what is going to happen to this country when and if Obama is elected. And you are participating in it, enabling it. It is a scary thought for me, and it should be for everyone.

  226. Don’t the Republicans know the rules? McCain as Pres can’t shut down a filibuster—takes 60 votes. Repubs are not likely to have that many Senatorial votes!!!! Sarah can break ties. They better take that dog out of the hunt because it can not hunt.

  227. If it is an aol issue as you claim, I suggest you use a different provider. that address is associated with some pretty vile commentary. I cannot allow your IP address because it will allow trolls in. I have read AOL materials that substantiate your claims. I apologize, but you must realize that this site is spammed by trolls quite often.

  228. Jangles, it was a very good interview. I think they complement each other. McCain seems more energetic and boyish around Palin.

    Also, McCain said he liked being the underdog in the race. It challenges them to work harder for the American people. Slow and steady is going to win this!

  229. Classic! I heard Donna Brazille, who I’m sure we all respected before she became the manipulator and rigged this election to favor Obama..

    On ABCNews last night she said McCain needed to read the bailout bill because this piece about buying mortgages was in it. Also, I love how the Democrats who always favored middle and lower class folks have all of sudden thrown them, us, under the bus…..Just like Nobama..

  230. I guess Palin is going to be on Greta. I’m listening on the radio, and I’m definitely going to listen to Greta talk to Sarah. That should be fun.

  231. moaklandca — I haven’t respected Donna Brazille since she dressed Al Gore in earth tones.
    Put on your reddest lipstick, your highest heels & your chicest pantsuit and Vote for the Woman, It’s Important!

  232. william and lilililam (you’rre names are very similar too) I apologize. apparentlly AOL does have batch numbers for their subscribers. You two happen to share one with a couple trolls. I suggest contacting AOL and seeing if they can somehow give you a different IP address. to everyone else, sorry for hijacking the thread…I’m just a little protective of this blog.

  233. Simofish – please do take it down. Five or six months ago a poster on Anglachel’s posted how very different this primary season had been and to actually be afraid to state who you were voting for. That was a long time ago and things have degenerated since. It is just a weirdness – a thuggishness like never before. We all get to vote in private and I am glad for that. I have a son in college and I have advised both he and his girlfriend to just not discuss it. Bullies are enboldened by fear or the hopes of causing fear, but, yes, some people really are capable of doing harm and with all the sreeching about rac*ism without true reason, they – the real thugs will tell themselves they had a reason.
    Please be safe. We need your vote and you and partner safe and sound.

  234. Madamab: oooh, congratulations.

    As to the economy, I am quite ignorant and struggle daily to find relevant info. In fact, I know only slightly more than Obama [even I knew better on CGD during ABC debate]. Having admitted my low economy IQ, I have a question.

    The bad economy is supposed to help Obama because we blame Bush. Okay. But we’re hearing a global collapse, and I understand that our economy affects other economies, but we can’t blame Bush for all this, can we? I mean, Iceland is going bankrupt. Doesn’t it seem that the longer this goes on and the more global the meltdown, the benefits to Obi cease? This seems bigger than the usual Bushisaidiot problem.

  235. LoL, Newt was on Hannity….he wants Hannity & Colmes to invite Biden to that restaurant in Delaware that is non-existent (The restaurant he mentioned in the VP debate)

  236. madamab, I liked your response to Palomino’s post:

    We are not a “cult” and we are not throwing in the towel one month before election day. If Obama wins, we will still be here fighting for the goals Hillary’s campaign represented.

  237. Obama said something like, “I’m gonna wake up every morning and work hard for you.”

    Wasn’t that Hillary’s line?

    Oh God, can’t he think of ANYTHING original? He stole her economic plan, he stole her energy plan. Next he’s going to say he’s going to “roll up his sleeves and create solutions.” Or maybe he’ll have Chelsea out stumping for him–she was a big help. Gag.

  238. Laura Bush is going to be on Greta after Palin. I’m going to have to take a pass on that.

  239. bostonboomer, on October 8th, 2008 at 9:52 pm Said:
    Simofish has to have read these comments, and she has not said anything. Unfortunately, people do things like this. It’s a mystery to me why they do it, but they do.

    What did I miss – sorry — overlapping trying to put a gift together — trying to read all the comments – did you ask something?

  240. We are not a “cult” and we are not throwing in the towel one month before election day. If Obama wins, we will still be here fighting for the goals Hillary’s campaign represented.

    They are projecting again. We’re not the ones who chant Hillary’s name like she’s a demi-god(dess).

  241. POE: As to the economy, I am quite ignorant and struggle daily to find relevant info. In fact, I know only slightly more than Obama


  242. BO said “I’ll fight for you” a couple of times in last night’s debate. Next, he’ll be saying “you’re not invisible to me”…
    just wait.

    It may be irrational, but I see red when I hear him use one of Hillary’s lines. 👿

  243. simofish, I made a mistake about william and lililam, they had the same IP address as some trolls. They said you could vouch for them, but I realized my error, and apologized.

  244. gary: I’m glad to hear that. I really love William’s posts.

  245. anybody see NQ tonight? There’s a post up about material dug up from Google2001 archieves that is kinda interesting. I called my programmer relatives to look at it and see if it sounds legit.

  246. I really hate AOL…not the first time they’ve made my life hell 🙂 again lililiam and william, I am sorry. I just really want this space to remain a safe place for this community. I see some reallly vile stuff on a regular basis. That’s all I’m trying to do….

  247. POE: Good question. However, the “reality” is that the bad economy helps Obama because the msm tells us so. Thinking for yourself just confuses things, so you’ll have a much better time if you don’t.
    Put on your reddest lipstick, your highest heels & your chicest pantsuit and Vote for the Woman, It’s Important!

  248. I actually heard an interesting viewpoint on my ham radio a night or two ago, something contrary to conventional wisdom. I heard this guy say that every time Obama gains a point in the polls, the stock market drops dramatically. He might have something there. I don’t think Wall Street has really been for democrats.

  249. Jangles

    When I was in high school, many moons ago, we learned about how our government works down to the rules of Congress. Mayhap they do not teach that anymore?

  250. ok – got it — I am hungry — time to go make an Iowa Pork Burger !!!! Yummy !!!

    I will be catching up on the blog later !!

  251. Thank you again, fif!

  252. gary: maybe you could go to bitterpoliticz and post a mea culpa there, that’s where they hang.

  253. Everytime Obama speaks I hear a phrase of Hillarys’. She must hate that. At least McCain gave her credit for the econ. plan.

  254. I don’t know if this is true or not, or even new news, but it seems Obama was a member of a socialist political party:


    Anyway, as relates to the chilling effect on free speech of the Obama candidacy, I say that is the most frightening aspect of the whole thing. Self censorship is always one of the first signs of a creeping authoritarianism. I don’t think he’s really a Democrat at all; I think he’s a fascist using the Democratic party label

  255. fif, I can’t get on that blog…never been there. I’m sure they’ll get the word..

  256. LOL! Palin just quoted Plato (very effortlessly) on Greta (take that Katie Couric!) Re: Title 9:

    “You learn more about a person in an hour of play, than in a year of conversation.”

  257. Bitterpoliticz doesn’t let new people in. You have send an e-mail to the person who runs the place. I did and she set it up so I could get in. It is a good blog. I’m sure William can post over there that Gary made a mistake.

    Gary does a wonderful job. We all make mistakes, and lately there has been a highly charged atmosphere. It has been really difficult at times.

  258. We love you Gary. 🙂 Honest mistake. We’re all overprotective after everything we’ve been through.

  259. fif @ 10:16 pm: Palin is just full of surprises, isn’t she?

  260. Yeah, what fif said.

  261. fif, if you see them over there, will you tell them I apologized?

  262. elderj–I read something about that earlier on NQ. Actually though, fascism and socialism are opposites in political ideology. Authoritarianism, totalitarianism and fascism are right wing dictatorial whereas, communism is a form (extreme) of socialism. Unfortunately, communism doesn’t work and became totalitarian.

    Sorry—got carried away there. Used to teach this stuff-guess I miss it.

  263. I love Gary — Dealing with Trolls and inappropriate comments is a LOT of pressure. I’ve accidentally deleted comments that were perfectly OK just because they were smack in the middle of a bunch of HORRIBLE stuff and my finger got out of control.

    I’m Sorry if our mistakes hurt people but, I’m sure I’ve done much worse than Gary. It’s the biggest risk of moderating such a busy site.

    Gary, thank you for everything!

  264. Simofish–that’s outrageous and disgusting.

    The Obama campaign has enabled the worst displays of classism, sexism and homophobia I have ever been disgusted to behold. Frankly I believe many of his white-liberal supporters have correctly identified a vote for Obama as the absolute minimum effort required to feel “progressive.” They can go about their merry woman-dissing, fag-bashing, Republican-baiting, poor-exploiting way all pleased with themselves that they waved away 400 years of r@cism with a vote and a bumper sticker.

  265. William,

    I’m really glad you are only you. I like your comments too. I don’t think Gary is trying to suppress free speech. As another mod, I can testify that some of the stuff that ends up moderated or in the spam filter is really ugly. I’m glad you guys don’t have to see it. And there are a lot of people who keep coming back under new names. It was an honest mistake.

  266. So, Obama was a fake Socialist then just like he is a fake Democrat now.
    Put on your reddest lipstick, your highest heels & your chicest pantsuit and Vote for the Woman, It’s Important!

  267. Actually, no, FuzzyOne.

    When that bank re-negotiates from $100,000 to $80,000, with only credit-worthy families considered, the family retakes the loan, stays in the house, and continues to pay on a fixed-rate, 30 year mortgage.

    The only loss to the taxpayer is the $20,000 difference.

    Obama’s plan, (in the bailout bill), will be run by HUD (Housing and Urban Development), where the very same cronies who completely and fraudulently screwed up Fannie and Freddie, will continue the same slush fund for their cronies that they worked at Fannie & Freddie.

    If you think there will be ANY supervision or oversight or investigations of HUD, Fannie , or Freddie, when Obama is president, with a Democratic Congress & Senate “supervising” the same oversight committees that did nothing in the last 2 years, you’re incredibly naive.

    Banks , using traditional qualifications for applicants wanting to change their mortgages…..

    Or a vague Housing and Urban Development department, run by friends of Barney Frank, with the same lack of qualifications for loan approval, all over again?

    Personally, I don’t think Americans will accept that second choice this time.

  268. thanks katie, well at least I know now that people on AOL can all have identical IP addresses in a given geographical area. Seems people editing wikipedia have the same problem about being blocked in batches:

    When you access Wikipedia from AOL, a proxy server (with its own IP address) retrieves and sends data to Wikipedia’s servers on your behalf rather than your computer doing so directly. However, an AOL user editing Wikipedia without an account cannot be uniquely identified as their IP address is shared with hundreds or thousands of other AOL users in their local area since any edits made by them to Wikipedia all appear to originate from the same proxy server.

    I thought IP address was like a fingerprint. with AOL I guess it is more like an area code.

  269. Honest mistake, gary. Man, am I glad it’s cleared up. I just got here and was reading through the thread and thought, ‘WTF? William’s a troll? I’ve been reading his stuff for months and never spotted it!” LOL

    It’s very big of you to own up to your mistake and apologize for it, gary. We’ve all made mistakes. Well, not me, but I know people who have! 😉

  270. Oops! I’m stuck in moderation for using the “T” word.

  271. Todd Palin is the best feminist.
    I am watching Greta!

  272. I missed Hillary so much during the debate last night!

    Gary-I followed the thread about the people you thought were tr…s. I saw you defend RD and the people on this site, then I saw you be open to hearing that there might be something else going on. I saw you let us know that and apologize to them. Gary-you’re my kind of guy! I admire what you did and respect what you do here everyday!

  273. Thanks radlyboo1. I love the people on this site. True Democrats fighting for what is left of our Party by any means necessary. It’s heartbreaking to see other websites call us names after what our half of the party has been through. It’s heartbreaking to see some PUMAs give up and join the Obamacrats because they believe that they have nowhere else to go. I have a feeling we will be here long after those folks are let down by the Chosen One.

  274. Gary is the Conflucian bouncer who checks IDs and calls the FBI just in case.

    AND I LOVE HIM for it.

    It’s all a case of mistaken identities – Bitterpoliticz, please understand, we are TIRED and worn out of fighting.

    Please, please understand. It’s nothing against you – it’s the IP address.

  275. “Obama was a fake Socialist then just like he is a fake Democrat now”

    These are my principles, and if you don’t like them, come back in 5 minutes, they’ll have changed.

    I don’t understand why this guy chose politics at all, he has NO core principles. There have got to be esier ways to get money and attention and work out his mommy issues. He should have become an actor.

  276. well i am sure hillary called mccain before he came on board-boy she can stick it to him behind the scenes…pelosi and harry are to blame for not listening to hillary in the first place….

    oh and it is so going to be our fault when obama loses! I can see Dean and Brazile saying PUMA is the reason that Mccain is president.

    Yes Howard Donna Nancy and Harry it is all our fault we did not support you are your little candidate…that what you get for taking us for granted!

  277. I just got here you all know that Gov. Palin is on greta tonight ??

    I loved those pics today of her jumping out of her car to greet supporters . . on the gretawire ..

    LoL . .what fun she is .. Makes me smile .. !

    The only one that is running ..that makes me smile .

  278. kc, on October 8th, 2008 at 10:19 pm Said:
    elderj–I read something about that earlier on NQ. Actually though, fascism and socialism are opposites in political ideology. Authoritarianism, totalitarianism and fascism are right wing dictatorial whereas, communism is a form (extreme) of socialism. Unfortunately, communism doesn’t work and became totalitarian.

    Sorry—got carried away there. Used to teach this stuff-guess I miss it.

    And Obama & Company have found a way to merge them both – it’s Obama-ism.

  279. fuzzybeargville, on October 8th, 2008 at 10:39 pm Said:
    well i am sure hillary called mccain before he came on board-boy she can stick it to him behind the scenes…pelosi and harry are to blame for not listening to hillary in the first place….

    oh and it is so going to be our fault when obama loses! I can see Dean and Brazile saying PUMA is the reason that Mccain is president.

    Yes Howard Donna Nancy and Harry it is all our fault we did not support you are your little candidate…that what you get for taking us for granted!

    I really don’t think that DIVA SUPREME Lynn Forester de Rothschild would go as far as to work with PUMA/Just Say No Deal/ New Agenda if this would hurt Hillary.

  280. I just got home and don’t have time to read all the posts from today, but did anyone read the article over at NQ about Google publishing their search engine from 2001, and the article on Obama from that year? Seems it identifies him as a member of the (now defunct) socialist New Party, associated with the Democratic Socialists of America. Much more info on him, very interesting how much of it not on his resume.

    Mccain and Palin were at my workplace today being interviewed by Sean Hannity for his show tonight and tomorrow night. We all watched from the windows as they arrived and then again as they left, must tell you that Sarah Palin is more beautiful in person than she is on TV, Cindi McCain as well. Our building was on Fox tonight, the film shows them walking out of a tan brick building with fall mums in pots on the ground, and you can see Sarah turn around and wave to people in the window – that’s me!

  281. ugsome — at least the republicans don’t try to hide it — but I have several GOP friends and they respected my support for Hillary and could care less I am a lesbian – we’ve always had a respectful disagreement.

    Gary — illiam e-mailed me – I will tell her you say sorry. She’s a good egg !!

  282. So basically, Fuzzy, the only thing the taxpayer actually buys is the principle difference between the first loan and the new loan.

    Once the loan is re-negotiated and the homeowner continues paying on time, the loan itself gets removed from the bank’s “toxic” list.

    If Obama’s campaign is telling you that McCain buys the whole loan, they’re bamboozling you, AGAIN.

    They want to keep the focus on their current bad guy: bank executives, and keep you from thinking about HUD, the new Dem slush fund with no pre-loan qualifications.

    And the bailout bill they claim fixes it?

    It says MAY help homeowners (ie, if the banks want to). It doesn’t say SHALL.

    McCain’s version says SHALL.

    You’re being okey-doked by accepting the Obama campaign’s explanation without studying the actual bill.

  283. Lakota: Hi, there. Have you been gone or did I just miss you while I took time off?

    Gary: I love that you always try so hard to make this a safe community. I’m sure William & lillian will understand. I always feel better when I log on here and see your face.

  284. Ok everyone, I had a very hard day. Kinda awful actually, and I’m beat.

    But I showed the PUMA cub how to change a car battery. So I guess not all was lost.


    Hugs & kisses to all – Don’t drink the friggin Kool Aid!!

  285. ” I can see Dean and Brazile saying PUMA is the reason that Mccain is president.”

    Oh, there’ll be a long list of people who are responsible, Donna and Howie deserve their fair share of the credit, too.

  286. have you seen this video yet? totally cool !!

  287. I copied sm77’s apology/explanation over at Bitter Politicz so I hope it is read and understood. I’d hate to see a feud between the two places I hang out the most.

  288. One more thing before I go:

    GIVE ’em hell, Simofish!!!

    Protect you & your home. CALL THE POLICE. That’s what they’re there to do. Please. I know you handled it well, but call the police. F__k it.

  289. kc — I agree about communism being the extreme form of socialism, but the nazis were national socialists after all.. so fascism is kind of a perverted form of socialism with a twist, and frankly a lot of what Obama says and does, and how his campaign operates reminds me of the national socialists (I’m rereading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by Shirer). The way he uses symbols, constant double talk to different audiences, the purge like behavior towards dissidents from his view within the party, the media manipulation, and of course the self censorship that is taking hold.

    It frightens me to think of someone with O’s mentality and self promotion in the drivers seat with all the creepy expanded executive powers that Bush pushed through. It makes his backtrack on FISA all the more sinister. And I think that those who believe they will “handle” him will find themselves under the bus with the rest of us. What’s next? Loyalty oaths?

  290. I haven’t read all the comments but yesterday I gave an example of who loses with this plan:
    “I can’t think of anyone who loses- except for the people who were gambling on big returns and are going to have to settle for a lot less. ”

    This plan will prop up unnatural house prices freezing out young people and first time home buyers if the price of homes are allowed to stay at unsustainable bubble prices. I find the people who are most for this plan are people who say their home prices rise at un-natural levels and don’t want to lose the windfall.

  291. Obama is against a plan that would help distressed homeowners because it’s not his plan. He will steal McCain’s plan, change a few words, a few dollars and then say it’s his.

    I’ve seen that picture before.

  292. Janicen, THANK YOU.

    Gary is the Conflucian-Blog Daddy/Bouncer. He really protects us here and the Confluence is a great safe haven for us because of him and BB & KBird who tend the store while RD is at work & being PUMA SuperWoman.

    Please let our friends there know that it was NOT intentional. It was the general darn IP address.

  293. hello conflucians! just wanted yo let u know that w/o u, this whole year would have been unbearable!


  294. simofish: I agree with sm77 that starting a paper trail with the police is very important.

  295. taggles: Without your voice out there we would have been pretty much f&cked as well. We f&ckers stick together!

  296. yeah – we have a non emergency police number i can call and report the incident and the anonymous notes that have ended up on the door step – good call

  297. simofish: I can understand how people want to reach for a weapon when they are as mistreated as you have been. The hate that has been let loose on this world is unimaginable. I just hope you have no children to protect. These people are crazed.

  298. This election is spinning off into the Twilight Zone. People you thought you knew taking off their faces and turning out to something else entirely underneath. McCain with more FDR than the so-called Democrat. BO getting Shrubbier than Shrub with every passing day.

    Take me to some simple place . . . .

  299. The way he uses symbols, constant double talk to different audiences, the purge like behavior towards dissidents from his view within the party, the media manipulation, and of course the self censorship that is taking hold.

    It frightens me to think of someone with O’s mentality and self promotion in the drivers seat with all the creepy expanded executive powers that Bush pushed through.

    elderj: now I’m going to have nightmares…

  300. elderj, I think Bush and Obama are very similar in terms of personality and temprament. Bush seemed to enjoy pushing the boundaries. He’d get away with something, then instead of quitting while he was ahead he’d take it a little further and see if he could get away with a little more. I can see Obama going down the same path, but this time the people who pushed back under Bush aren’t going to be there. Since he became an Obot, my father’s reversed his position on several core issues that he screamed bloody murder with when Bush was doing it.

  301. Lakota,

    Are you still here? You never told me what you thought about the timing of this financial crisis. You know, the “difficult fifth night” ends shortly after the election. I’m finding this really fascinating. What do you think will happen after the “fifth night” ends?

  302. simofish: Great video. Now go secure your home–OBots are obnoxious.

  303. You’re getting anonymous notes, too? Good grief. Leave them a note, too: The police have been notified.

  304. pat, the conflucians and peeps at puma pac are great!

    What would we do without eachother?

  305. NH: I disagree with your analysis. The set aside called for by HRC and McCain could be very healthy. A major thing that needs to be done and used to be done on a regular basis is a real audit of mortgage book to value. What is a reasonable market price for a property and its mortgage. There has been substantial price deflation that is real. But there has not been a real audit of the value of remaining mortgages. Such an audit must value not just the extemporaneous value of a property but the value of the mortgage in terms of the long term prospect that the mortgagee will make good. That normal process has been derailed because of the leveraging and securitized mortgage products that have been new to this generation of property price inflation and the absence of any regulatory structures to deal with them. What should be a valuation done through free markets has been corrupted and is probably not going to be revived by the markets in any reasonable time. The set aside noted by mcCain and HRC forces this to happen and does so under government oversight. If the right people do this, it would be a major step in righting markets from the ground up. It also ensures that real people are direct benefactors of the bailout not just those who build, manage and sometimes destroy mortgage and property markets.

  306. Take me to some simple place . . . .

    quixote: I’ve been fantasizing about that lately. If BO (the unthinkable), I would just find a nice small town somewhere, have no media contacts, garden, hike, meditate, and find another reality within. I have spent 8 years completely ignoring the president, muting him, and as impossible as it seems, I despise BO even more. More, because of what he did to Hillary, our Party, women, working class people, gays, race relations…

    a simple BO-free place…

  307. quixote: People are scared. When that happens they act out. There is no leadership and no leaders to speak of. We do not know who to trust any longer. Some of us are finding ourselves in real jeopardy and are pinning their hopes and futures on one candidate who we all know is nowhere up to the task. When they see opposition to the person they have imbued with this mystical quality they feel personally rejected.

    I may be simplifying from my perch but unease and uncertainty brings out the worst in people. The little hope they cling to must not be tarnished or they too will lose faith. Other elements are at play here as well but fear is dominate. We are at the precipice and find ourselves looking down. And without a voice out there to guide us through this mess, the fear and emotion take over.

    We are leaderless. Not a good thing.

  308. taggles: Talking to our own sockpuppets! Sad, sad, sad.

  309. As an aside for those in NC — don’t you just love the ad the DNC is running against Elizabeth Dole condemning her for voting FOR the Bush/Cheney Energy Bill when Obama voted for it as well? The irony-free campaign indeed.
    Put on your reddest lipstick, your highest heels & your chicest pantsuit and Vote for the Woman, It’s Important!

  310. (OT. About IP spoofing: I wouldn’t call myself enormously tech savvy, but a brief trip through Google will show anyone how to do it, it’s that easy. And sniffing other people’s IPs is not that difficult either. There are small command line programs for it. So this isn’t just a potential AOL problem, although obviously their way of handling IPs makes the situation even worse.)

  311. I agree Jangles. The argument re: bailing out speculators is irrelevant. This has worked before, and as Hillary explained, it could even net a profit for the government if it is done right. These toxic loans are corrupting the entire financial system. They cannot be ignored because of a moral argument. Economic stability doesn’t care about morality. It’s a disease within the system that needs to be quarantined and treated.

  312. I may be simplifying from my perch but unease and uncertainty brings out the worst in people. The little hope they cling to must not be tarnished or they too will lose faith. Other elements are at play here as well but fear is dominate. We are at the precipice and find ourselves looking down. And without a voice out there to guide us through this mess, the fear and emotion take over.

    I agree Pat, and as I said recently, the intensity of all of this is amplified by 8 years of Bush trauma. Everyone is a bit mad (myself included).

  313. I wish there had been some high-profile, concentrated effort to turn New York red this time. It’s deep Clinton territory, so she could have swayed it. I guess she has too much class than to backstab her own party. Too bad I can’t say the same for her party. Still, I wonder if there won’t be a few surprises – a true-blue state turning red. Just to go blue in 2012.

  314. fif, I guess the trick would be for all of us to wind up in nearby simple places 😀

    and then we could secede! (Just kidding. . . . I think.)

  315. fif,

    I have thought about that too. Sometimes I wish I could just go completely off the grid. But it’s too late for that. I’m too deep in debt with college loans. They’ll find me anywhere. But sometimes I imagine moving up to North Dakota and hiding out in some little badlands town, teaching at a tiny little college. I’ll probably just end up in Indiana though. I need to be closer to my elderly parents. I’m definitely getting out of Boston when I finish my degree.

  316. quixote: sounds good to me! We would have wonderful discussions and laugh and laugh. We could create a wonderful little society of our own, and HIllary can be our Queen (in a democratic sense of course).

  317. not happy in Beantown bb? My sister lives in Somerville, and it’s a relaxed city as far as cities go.

  318. McCain’s pathetic health care stance is going to hurt him unless people think neither candidate will do anything. McCain avoids countering Obama’s attacks and that makes him look worse. I don’t know who is helping McCain shape his policies, but his health care policy is stupid and one that he could lose the election on. Dumb, Dumb Dumb.

  319. Hi all! I’m popping in briefly tonight. I’m glad Gary cleared up the IP problem – I thought it was like an individual fingerprint too so I got to learn something new tonight!

    I too noticed the Google anniversary present and perused some of it last night. There really is some interesting reading (for the sites that still come up) about BO. What’s that – do I hear some Conflucians asking what they may find there? Well, let me give you a couple of good snippets:

    5/17/2000 – CBSNews.com
    Chicago Urges Reparations Hearings
    Professor Barack Obama of the University of Chicago supports more discussion on the issue, but says any law would likely be spiked in the courts.

    “Nobody denies that slavery was egregious act,” he says. “Generally the Supreme Court has a philosophy that you have to identify a clear wrongdoer and a clear victim.”

    New Ground 45 – March/April 1996
    Barak Obama
    Barak Obama is running to gain the Democratic ballot line for Illinois Senate 13th District. The 13th District is Alice Palmer’s old district, encompassing parts of Hyde Park and South Shore.

    Mr. Obama graduated from Columbia University and promptly went into community organizing for the Developing Communities Project in Roseland and Altgeld Gardens on the far south side of Chicago. He went on to Harvard University, where he was editor of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated with a law degree. In 1992, he was Director of Illinois Project Vote, a voter registration campaign that made Carol Moseley Braun’s election to the U.S. Senate much easier than it would have been. At present, he practices law in Judson Miner’s law firm and is President of the board of the Annenberg Challenge Grant which is distributing some $50 million in grants to public school reform efforts.

    What best characterizes Barak Obama is a quote from an article in Illinois Issues, a retrospective look at his experience as a community organizer while he was completing his degree at Harvard:

    “… community organizations and organizers are hampered by their own dogmas about the style and substance of organizing. Most practice … a ‘consumer advocacy’ approach, with a focus on wrestling services and resources from outside powers that be. Few are thinking of harnessing the internal productive capacities, both in terms of money and people, that already exist in communities.” (Illinois issues, September, 1988)

    Luckily, Mr. Obama does not have any opposition in the primary. His opponents have all dropped out or were ruled off the ballot. But if you would like to contribute to his campaign, make the check payable to Friends of Barak Obama, 2154 E. 71st, Chicago, IL 60649. If you would like to become involved in his campaign, call the headquarters at (312) 363-1996.

    Chicago Tribune Internet Edition – sorry the date didn’t come up!
    Restaurant spices congressional campaign
    A general manager of the Hyde Park restaurant Medici, Kirsten Schley, is demanding that the re-election campaign of U.S. Rep. Bobby Rush (D-Ill.) remove her likeness and the restaurant’s name from Rush leaflets and billboards. The INC. Column reports that Schley is angry the pictures were displayed without her permission and that supporters of Rush’s challenger, state Sen. Barack Obama (D-Chicago), are threatening to boycott her restaurant in retaliation.

    Rush campaign spokeswoman Maudlyne Ihejirika calls it a “simple misunderstanding,” adding that she would “not be surprised if (Schley) was being goaded into this by one of our opponents.”

    There are some more interesting things like a David Axelrod comment about BO from back in the day – pictures and stories of BO and Father Michael Pfleger – and something about his huge fundraising capabilities many years ago while he was still a state Senator – you get the drift.

    He didn’t just spring up out of nowhere and the truth is out there somewhere. I consider it my duty as an American to do my part tracking down whatever I can. I’m not sure anyone other than the PUMAs will listen, but it will at least make me feel better about my judgement.

    I’m off to bed now. Thanks for reading.

  320. I don’t understand why OB gets the advantage for the economy being in the tank. It’s not like he’s ever done anything. The only reason a D after your name is associated with a good economy is because of WJC. Before Bill, all the “economic hope” went to those with the R after their names.

    And I believe that this misplaced hope could be what’s afflicting our friend Charles.

  321. fif and quixote: I will bring the Cheez Its and raisonettes. Then we could pay on call on Boston Boomer, shoot us a deer, and kickback! No tv, radio, cellphones. Let them finish off the country in the next 4 years for all we care. We will be deadenders and out of touch for sure.

  322. That’s a good point Sophie. Charles was really freaked out about the economic downturn because of his work and his assets.

  323. NH: The difference between McCain’s pathetic health care plan and Obama’s just-short-of-grandiose plan is that McCain will probably implement his and Obama has no intention of implementing his.

  324. fif: Somerville? Relaxed? The home of the Winter Hill Gang? OMG!!

  325. fif,

    I love Boston, but it is so expensive here. My parents are in their 80s now, and they are going to be needing more help soon. Most of my family lives in Indiana or Illinois. I just have one brother here in Cambridge. If I move I will really be torn, especially because I would have to leave my two nephews. But I could always come back to visit. I think it makes more sense for me to live in Indiana, where the cost of living is so much lower than here. I want to be there for my parents too. I really don’t know what will happen though.

  326. Sophie, thats the problem. McCain’s health care solution is a nightmare. I don’t want to have anything to do with it.

  327. Deadenders Lane.

    Deadenders Society.

    Deadenders Village.

    Deadenders on a Hill.

  328. I think Charles, being so much more educated than most of us here, was heaped with praise for his analysis. Someone jokingly challenged that and he got a little ticked off. At least that is my take on it.

  329. Pat,

    Somerville has become yuppie territory these days. No one can afford to live in Boston or Cambridge anymore.

  330. Deadenders on a Hill has a nice ring to it.

  331. NH: My point was that either way, things are not going to be different than they are today.

  332. My sister has a nice little place on a cul de sac in a Portuguese neighborhood with her husband and a cat. Good restaurants, great coffee shop, quiet neighborhood. I lived in NYC for years after college, and Boston is a small town compared to that intensity. It is expensive though.

  333. bb: No kidding, I always associate that city with Whitey Bulger. My daughter in law was born and raised there but she and my son live in Reading. Springfield is getting to be the pits. The former City of Homes is no longer.

  334. I’m pretty stubborn. I don’t think I could ever join the Obama cult. I was immune to Reagan and I’m immune to his clone.

  335. I love Boston and hope to live there someday but I agree that ANYWHERE on the East Coast these days is too expensive. I just can’t see myself living in the midwest where I grew up. Everything is so sprawled out. I like taking the train or Chinatown bus to another city and not needing a car to go everywhere.

  336. Pat: You’re right about Charles…he got really pissed about a flip post rejecting the bailout package. Said we didn’t understand enough, otherwise we wouldn’t be joking about it like that. Well, for all the good the bailout did, I don’t feel like such a moron for rejecting it now.

  337. If universal health care is the overriding issue in voters’ minds, then Hillary would have won the primaries by a landslide, because we all know that she has been an advocate and thinking about this problem for a long, long time. I just don’t think this election will come down to universal health care.

  338. Yeah, I associate Somerville with Whitey Bulger too. The Winter Hill gang. I wonder where Whitey is? He is more illusive than Osama bin Laden.

  339. Pat: I noticed it very several days, but didn’t want to say anything. He kept talking about how depressing it all was as if we were all going to die within 24 hours. He kept posting like that repeatedly. Then he started with the “the election is over” and when myiq made a joke, he got really angry and we haven’t seen him since. This has affected everyone on so many levels, and we’re all managing the best we can. I wish him well.

  340. for several days…brain cells are starting to shut down.

  341. fif, I’d love that. I really miss being a part of the Portuguese community. That’s one thing they don’t have in Kansas.

  342. DV,

    I don’t really know what will happen. I really wish my parents could move here, and my brother does too. But they just don’t think they can afford it on their fixed income. The only way I can afford to live here is that I have a very unique living situation. My expenses for housing are very low.

  343. Sophie: And a few days before that he went after madamab for an innocuous playlet she presented. He has no sense of proportion. You can’t beat the gloom and doom mantra day after day no matter how easy it is to want to. A brief break to include some levity into the conversation sent him into a fit.

    Sometimes people take the most harmless things and twist them all out of proportion. We may not all agree 100% with one another but he took it personally.

  344. Parentofed-I’m here. Sometimes, I actually forget that I’m not posting! I read every word and feel I’m participating in the family conversation as someone says what I want to say right before I say it! LOL!

    Bb-I actually think the financial crisis and the election are the catalysts to shake things up to lead us to the end of the “fifth night.” Don’t think there will be a quick, comfortable resolution, but I believe there will be a lessening of the panic, bringing a “settling.” I think it may be more like a subtle shifting or like things falling in place as we lead up to 2012. That said, I can’t see an Obama win. It would shift us totally away from the “balance” that 2012 promises to bring. I may be a voice crying in the wilderness, but I don’t think there’s going to be chaos or some unimaginable crisis. What do you think? Does this make any sense at all?

  345. It seems like I missed a lot — I had no idea Charles was deliberately gone. I did notice a change in the tone of his blog and it’s kind of kept me from commenting there.

  346. Hey Katiebird,

    There is a huge Portugese community in Somerville. Lots of Portugese grocery stores and restaurants. Come and visit!

  347. Oh Pat, I forgot about that. That was strange. Poor madamab, just trying to give us a laugh.

  348. The best part of living within a city is the accessibility to everything. The worst is watching it deteriorate.

  349. “fifth night.” ??

    What’s that?

    BB, I’d Love to come out to Boston. (dreaming)

    It’s just so hard to go anywhere I don’t have siblings. It just doesn’t seem to happen….

  350. katiebird, you missed a lot in the last several weeks. The list of people who are “gone” is growing each day: Charles, masslib, Anglachel…anyone want to add to the list?

  351. RD: I have no problem with refinancing the loan at the original principal they bid for at the interest rate they were able to afford, and placing the payments that are in default to the back of the loan.

    I have a HUGE problem with reducing the principal of the loan to the current value of the home.

    2/4 years ago we had people sleeping in the parking lots of developments to “get in on the bargain” with the intention of flipping the house at a profit months later. I couldn’t buy a house because the selling price would “start” at $225,000.00, within 24 hours, it would be at $275,000, then $300,000 and would sell from $350,000 to $400,000 because of the constant outbidding. Now the value is back down to $225,000 to $250,000.

    So now they get to reduce their loan to $250,000 and 5 years from now sell it for $400,000 and walk away with the profit?

    That is my one and only problem with this plan. If there is something in the contract that states if you sell the house for say $300,000 when we reduced your loan to $250,000 – I think the taxpayers should get the $50,000 back, because they already had $100,000 written off. If they sell it for $400,000, they walk away with $50,000, the taxpayers get the $100,000 back that was written off.

    I don’t know if I’m making sense but I just think it’s very wrong for profiteers to drive the price way out of range for us locals, then get their loan reduced, and walk away with a profit when they sell.

  352. masslib was moving away at about the time I went out of town. I remember wondering if it was a case of stolen identity.

    Anglachel never really commented here did she? Did she trash us at her blog?

  353. katieb: in the past couple of weeks, as the economic situation shifted the race and Nov. 4th looms, people started to really feel the pressure of making a decision. Being between a Barack and a hard place is causing some strange behavior. I have been hibernating myself, because I can’t risk any Obot interactions with friends and acquaintances. No telling how I’ll respond. I’m not very predictable in that regard these days.

  354. katiebird: See why it is not worth it to take a vacay? You miss so much. We have seen a drop off of certain regular posters who we assume have drunk the Kool Aid as this election draws to a close. Some posters have left us in a snit because we refused to get onboard.

    It has been a most disturbing year all around. But I am braced for a win by either candidate. I have little control beyond my own surroundings. The disappointment I felt since May 31st has subsided into apathy. Either candidate is not the answer to these growing problems and issues. We just need to soldier on as there is little alternative.

  355. Esquire Magazine just gave its first endorsement in 75 years to Obama, stating that McCain has run the most dishonest campaign and that Palin is supremely unqualified. Of course a Chicago machine Pol who has let his 13th district die is so qualified.

    I was upset until I discovered that its editor in chief is a dem who has been an Obama supporter since the beginning.

    What will the media do if McCain wins? refuse to acknowledge him?

  356. Lakota,

    I’m just fascinated by the timing of all this. I tend to think in mystical terms a lot of the time. At least it’s something to hold onto. I read this book by Carl Calleman and it was just fascinating. Perhaps all this upheaval will end up forcing us to come to terms with the way wealth has become so concentrated in the top 1%. We really need some solutions. Whoever is elected President is going to have to lead or get out of the way. Americans aren’t going to accept this much longer.

  357. katiebird, so you didn’t read Riverdaughter’s post addressing Anglachel?

  358. apologies for posting from newsbusters, but it’s the only place where i’ve seen these wire service pics. a new low from the mysogonist corpmedia:

    Newsbusters: Indecent Wire Service Pictures of Sarah Palin

  359. Oh my god, the Winter Hil bakery has the best ricotta pie in the world. If you like ricotta pie, you have to go there. And don’t worry about being shot by the Winter Hill Gang, you’re not in Charlestown. 😉

  360. We are the hard-core PUMAs. It’s in our blood. No surrender, no retreat. I wasn’t kidding back in May when I said never.

  361. katibird: She cited articles by Mandos and accused rd of having a ra*cist site. She also indicated that she dropped The Confluence from her blogroll as a result. It was pretty unsettling. The irony was that after she posted, and I have a feeling she visits this site, she never posted any comments for that essay. Very telling. Like a drive by shooting so to speak. Totally unfair.

  362. Fortunately, newspaper endorsements don’t affect elections. Much less magazine endorsements.

  363. And before anyone says anything, they’re Irish gangs, so white they’re practically albinos.

  364. Indecent Wire Service Pictures of Sarah Palin

    neo: If they’re indecent, why are you posting them here? I will not give the link any traffic. What are they?

  365. DV, I was up in the Wisonsin woods without phone, cable or Internet (or even plumbing until we replaced some pipes & a sink) for a week and a half — it seems like there’ve been a lot of changes. I tried to catch up on the posts but, it was overwhelming!

    Thanks for the link — I’ll go read it now.

  366. Re the Palin pics: Good grief. Unbelievable.

  367. Katiebird,

    Anglachel called us racists–used the name of the blog in her post to that effect. And it all seemed to be based on a rather sophomoric post by Mandos at Corrente. Mandos has now been banned from Corrente, because he posted something else that made even less sense. As RD said earlier, I hope Anglachel has recovered from her psychotic break. But I don’t really care. I know who I am and I know I can’t vote for a crook and a thug. It’s just not going to happen.

  368. Y’know…everyone’s on edge these days…the economy, the elections… I blame it all on OB, the most divisive character to come along in my lifetime.

    I am just really glad I found you guys. I was getting beaten up at the Big Cheetoh and then moved on to MyDD, which had been being reasonable, but then just turned completely Bot. I was starting to think that I was the only Hillary supporter left! I found my way here by accident or grace and hadn’t been so happy to find a group of kindred spirits since my first time at a gay bar!

    I know we don’t always agree on everything, but I don’t need that–we agree on what’s important.

  369. Pat Johnson, I have a feeling that masslib, Anglachel, Obamabots at Alegre’s Corner, Taylor Marsh, and BTD read this site along with our comments. They might think that we are crazy but they come here to read our comments then go back to their sites to talk about us. They say we are irrelevant but they want to know what we are saying about them.

  370. I tend to think in mystical terms a lot of the time.

    bb: me too. I have studied meditation for over 20 years, and lived in India for 6 months in an ashram. Don’t let that fool you–I’m as neurotic as ever. That’s what I meant by the “simple place.” I have been so consumed by this election, and the negativity surrounding BO and his tactics–the misogyny and hostility–has been depleting. I have lost the bigger picture. Whatever happens on Nov. 4th, I need to go back to basics and find a way to move on. As Pat said, without HRC, there really is no good resolution, but for BO, the DNC and the media to be rewarded will be a monumental challenge to reconcile.

  371. Oh for heaven’s sake!

    Well, that saves another few minutes every morning. Bleah. I’m glad I missed that.

    I’m sorry about Charles though.

  372. Bb-We won’t really have a leader until 2012, imo. And, we all know who that will have to be! Rise, Hillary, Rise! Yes, I, too, think that we are desparately trying to balance out the resources on this planet. As you said, the next President may just have to get out of the way. I can only see McCain doing that! BO is way too divisive to lead us to any kind of balance.

    On another note, Bb, I totally hear what you’re saying about the possibility of moving to be closer to your parents. I’m in the same boat, looking to leave Atlanta, to take care of my elderly Mom in south GA. But, although I want to get out of the city….south GA????

  373. I keep seeing an interview with John Kerry during the primaries, and his comment “UHC is dead”, or something like that. Despite what Obama says, I just don’t see it happening in the next 4 years, especially with the current economic situation. Plus many Americans have developed a real fear of any social program being run by the government right now in light of all the corruption surrounding Fannie and Freddie. Plus who believes anything Obama says anyway?

  374. bboomer – what did Mandos get banned from Corrente for?

  375. I know who I am and I know I can’t vote for a crook and a thug. It’s just not going to happen.

    The regulars here often say things that perfectly reflect my own feelings. It is such a relief, isn’t it Sophie. Even if you are deluded in your thinking that you have the edge with Hillary…

  376. fif: did your ashram have a Gurumayi?

  377. Lakota: do you know Carolyn Myss’ work?

  378. What is the “fifth night.” ??

  379. Sophie: Yes! Do you know her?

  380. I was gone the same two weeks as Katie, and have had so little time to read or comment since. How sad about Charles!

    I don’t think I could bear to look at his blog if he is supporting BO and calling the race.

    It’s scary out there, but I am with the ones who know that a month is a long time in the homestretch. It ain’t over. How many times have we been convinced our Demo candidate would win?

    The only thing thast gives me the heebs is feeling that BO is actually a repug, and Repugs tend to get “elected”. But if thats so, what is McCain?–Easier to vote for, that’s what.

  381. America has been asleep for the last 20 years, lulled into a false sense of stability. Have it all, have it now, has been the battlecry. Charge it now, pay later. Who cares?

    When those who transgress are not held accountable that sense of morass seeps into the fabric of our society. Cheating on college exams is no different than cooking the company books. What we are doing to the Iraq’s is unforgivable but our president is not held to any accountability. Lying to the American public is no different than wholesale lying to protect the bottom line. There is always an excuse and apologists to make them.

    Trust has disappeared. Our congress is tanking in approval. The president hovers between 28% to 30% depending upon if he made a speech for that week. No one believes him. He is totally irrelevant.

    Our courts are loaded with political appointees who owe their allegiance to whomever put them there. Justice is fleeting. The oil companies are making obscene profits while we struggle to get through each week. We are bailing out private enterprises but refuse to fund children’s healthcare.

    We are hamstrung in selecting a leader from one of the two who currently claim to have the answers. The truth is no one is in a position to make change without radical disturbances lurking in the background. We hear what we wish to hear. Believe what we wish to believe. Soundbites have taken the place of an informed public.

    We seem to have got here on our own somehow. By looking the other way, our sense of ourselves began to reshape. The final chapter has yet to be writ.

  382. DV: ben carlson disappeared and he seemed like such a strong PUMA. Completely anti-Obama. I hope he’s ok.

  383. fif: I don’t “know” her, but I “met” her at Darshan a few times at an Ashram in S. Fallsburg, NY.

    And funny you should bring up Caroline Myss…I’m currently reading Entering the Castle.

  384. Lakota,

    I think the American people are going to have to somehow pull together and take back America by ourselves. We have to be our own leaders, because the people we elected to represent us don’t care about the people anymore.

  385. Pat: that AIG story really embodies the extent of the corruption. After this crisis has shaken the world markets, stopped the government, affected the presidential race, and is going to cost hard-working Americans billions in tax dollars, these people go to a f*cking spa???

  386. I believe the plan is to install Barry , not to lead but to simply over see the continued Bush & co looting….so what he says makes little difference, nothing but the theft will happen. Certainly NOT Hillary Clinton’s ideas…Looking back at his life, when has anything good happened when Barry was on the scene? Here we are today , when the GOP candidate wants to help home owners, but the supposed Dem candidate says that would be a burden on tax payers??


  387. BB: Right on! We don’t have any leaders. It’s going to take real people to take down the machine.

  388. fif-yes, I know her work, although I have lost touch with it for the past couple of years. Have you read her latest work?

    katiebird-Bb can probably explain it better than I can. We were talking previously about the end of the Mayan calendar which is around 2012. It’s the end of an age, etc. Much mystery surrounding the future after than. Also, the Hopi elders and others talked about “worlds” and numbered them. Much, much change has been expected leading up to 2012. Some so-called “psychics’ can’t even “see” beyond that year. That and other speculation lead to a belief that the world might end. However, other thinking brought a new light in that there may be a totally shift in consciousness toward balance. Therefore, my thinking that BO can not possibly win this election. He stands for the old forces of divisiveness, not balance.

  389. RD

    I agree with your idea on the resale amounts of loan write-offs. I work closely with the real estate profession, on a barrier island in Florida. We watched what neighborhoods we had here disappear to “flippers” who weren’t here for more than a few months. It wasn’t worth getting to know them because they certainly weren’t staying.

    A dear friend died toward the end of the housing pyramid, and I had to sell her home for the estate. I could see what was coming,and my fiduciary duty to the estate was to do the best I could. After about 200 or so interested parties (from a sign in the yard),I did just that, and two or three weeks later, the party was over. The couple I sold it to put in another fifty thousand, put it back on the market, and a year later sold at a loss of 100.000.. The next people were too dumb to know the game was over and tried to sell, they lost another forty thousand. The original buyers still have another three houses on this island up for “short sale”. Everyone of them went for over 1.3 million. They also had property in the center of the state. They bought one place, got it reappraised, used the increased equity to put on the next one, then refinanced again, used the increased equity to go on, and on, and on. That was the game, and they played it well, and now those banks are out millions, just from one couple.

    I have no patience or sympathy for people who borrowed more than they could possibly pay, or for people who saw a get rich quick scheme and jumped on board. Just like day-trading in the nineties, gambling is gambling. It doesn;t matter if you are playing poker, lottery, stocks, or real estate. If you bet more than you can afford to lose, you are a fool. We may still have to take corrective steps because they will take everyone else down with them, but they shouldn’t profit from it, at our expense. We have already seen how AIG viewed the tax-payers sacrifice, and it wasn’t pretty.

  390. fif, I’m glad to see you’re all cheerful these past few days. Before it seemed like you were killing yourself with worry. 🙂

  391. Just for a data point of reference, I looked to see how many comments TL gets. All day today, they’ve gotten 29. By comparison, this post alone has almost 400. That’s a whole lot of irrelevance going on here.

  392. Katiebird,

    The “fifth night” is part of the Mayan calendar. Before they disappeared from the face of the earth, the ancient Mayans created this calendar that ends in 2012. Some people think that will be the end of the world, but most Mayan scholars think there will be a big upheaval and then balance will be restored. The fifth night is the period of most difficulty. It began in November, 2007 and ends around November 12, 2008.

    The Mayan calendar goes in cycles that are called days and nights. The last fifth night was around the time of the fall of the Soviet Union, I think.

  393. Wow Lakota…a friend and I were just having a conversation about that the other day (the end of the Mayan calendar)…it was an intense conversation…(he has some unorthodox beliefs).

  394. Thanks, Bb, I knew you could explain it better than I could. You are a teacher, right? Psychologist?

  395. Brianna,

    It hasn’t been that long since we hit 3 million, and we are going to get to 3.5 million hits pretty soon.

  396. Seriously: really? Did I seem more stressed out? The shift in his pol numbers freaked me out at first. I think, as Pat said, I’m starting to come to terms with moving on, because we really have no control over what is going to happen–except to vote. I’ve been enraged for so long, though I am still anxious, and desperately want him to lose, I realize life will go on and I have to find my own place within it.

  397. Should I put up an overnight post? This thread is getting really long.

  398. Lakota & BB —

    That is really interesting and totally new to me. It Began in Nov. 2007? Funny how that’s the start of the weirdest year I can remember.


  399. Sophie-Please tell us more about your conversation. Any connection with the election?

  400. Charles doesn’t support Obama. He’s saying an outside factor swayed the election, and you can see it in state by state, and national polls. He’s skipping the election, and I’m pretty much resigned to doing the same thing. Gosh, I am just saying what political scientist widely agree on, the ECONOMY swayed the election to the Democrats across the board. Now something might change but that is how it looks. My only inclination to vote for BO is Hillary and Bill, and their relentless observation that a Democrat, any Democrat, is better than a Republican. But as I’ve said I have walked away from that with Obama’s unwillingness at a time of crisis to suggest anything bold and Democratic. I wish you wouldn’t bash me. I made an unemotional observation and I was being sarcastic. But you know, if you are going to try and win down ticket seats by bringing out voters, chances are statistically they’ll vote straight ticket. And, while we may be stuck with BO because of the economic crisis, and the desire of the public to fire the President’s Party, we may also win big majorities in the Congress, which is at least something in an otherwise unhappy election. I really don’t appreciate the constant psuhing that I am “campaigning” for someone that no one in their right mind would say I even remotely like. But whatever. Bash away.

  401. I refuse to believe that Obama is the leader to herald us into the new age. If her were indeed the one, he wouldn’t have had to resort to trickery and deceit.

  402. fif –
    i can’t describe the pics but no problem taking a look for yourself. wire services taking pics between palin’s legs etc.

  403. Sophie-my sentiments exactly.

  404. It’s good to be reading the things written here tonight—many of you are saying things that have been on my mind. The American public HAS been lulled into sleep for decades and finally this is a bucket of cold water thrown, acting as a wake-up call. Tuning back into the big picture, even from a mystical perspective will show and provide the way to bring prosperity to the USA and all of our planet again. Systematically, patiently and unnoticed. Pulling together and taking back our country can be done without violence or damage—and that’s the way to go.

  405. BB that would be great if you could post something fresh!

  406. fif-yes, I know her work, although I have lost touch with it for the past couple of years. Have you read her latest work?

    I took her workshop on the Interior Castle based on the works of Saint Theresa of Avila. I’ve taken other workshops with her too, and she is brilliant. Powerful and abrasive. Some people really don’t like her energy, but she’s very direct and honest. Her work really resonated with me for years and since I’ve studied psychology and was drawn to Jung and his work re: alchemy, her work has taken that to a new level with her studies of archetypes.

    However…I guess I’m on her mailing list, because I received an email newsletter last week that discussed how to deal with these chaotic times from a spiritual perspective. She is from Chicago. As I read on, I got that uh-oh, Obot warning feeling. She wrote a book on the Founding Fathers last year and was furious about Bush’s assault on our democratic fundamentals. In the newsletter she started to say that “during these difficult times, like the Civil War, again a lawyer has come out of IL, a Constitutional scholar with great vision.”

    Delete. It was another good lesson in the saying, “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” As was said above: “I know who I am, and what is true for me.” With all of her insight, she is probably getting her information from the Chicago Tribune & The New York Times etc. She even went as far as to say that maybe like Lincoln, he has appeared to heal the unresolved rac*al wounds of the Civil War time–symbolically and spiritually. How so many smart people can be so dumb about this guy is beyond me.

  407. Lakota: He didn’t say anything about the election. He has a different idea about the end of days–it involves the international money elite and aliens.

  408. I’m working on something right now. I’ll let you know when it’s up.

  409. fif, yeah, you seemed really freaked out, I’m glad you’re not. I really think it’s all going to work out.

  410. neo: omg, you’ve got to be kidding.

    Speaking of societal degradation.

  411. William you said: “It is time we rewarded people in this country for behaving responsibly, not endlessly bailing them out for making foolish or greedy decisions”

    Agree completely and thank you for expressing it so well.

    I know so many people who fit the description of the latter (making foolish/greedy decisions). They have jobs. They are earning good money.

    They just wanted bigger and better of everything, and bought more than they could afford, then cashed out their equity like it was an ATM.

    In short, they were the grasshoppers in the fable – had a good old time, while the ants were being cautious and doing without.

    The ants were shut out of the market entirely because of inflated prices. Prices driven up by the grasshoppers.

    Now the ants have to pay to keep the reckless grasshoppers in a home they themselves are doing without?

    Polls show it again and again but I personally know many people who are resentful as hell with how this is playing out.

  412. Agree with you completely, warrior princess. So does John McCain.

    But his program, which is another version of Hillary’s HOLC, would not include speculators or “flippers,” as you call them.

    Only families with homes they actually live in (primary residence), with proof of employment and good credit histories.

    I’m inclined to want to HELP those people, especially if the help reduces the number of toxic loans banks have to carry on their books.

    Barak Obama has no plan to do that at all.

    Just a great big $300 billion slush fund for his buddies at HUD.

    I’ve SEEN that movie, thank you.

  413. fif: What a heartache…I can’t believe someone Like Myss cannot see right through OB. What gives?

  414. Mary, that still rewards those who misbehaved.

    With money from those who didn’t.

    Who get nothing.

    And in many cases, are still shut out of the market by those who misbehaved.

    It’s wrong on so many levels.

  415. “wire services taking pics between palin’s legs etc.”

    Oh yeah, President Obama with supermajorities–Animal House meets 1984 meets The Handmaid’s Tale. Yippee.

  416. masslib: we’re not bashing. It’s more of a general discussion about the different choices people are struggling to make. The only reason there was a reaction the other day was because you kept bringing up Obama, and as you know, most of us positively loath everything he (doesn’t) stand for, so he is not even a remote consideration. You made your point, and you kept going even after Riverdaughter asked you nicely to stop. As we’ve said tonight, everyone is edgy due to the length of this election, the last 8 years, and the upcoming vote. Try not to take it personally.

  417. fif-I was afraid that Myss had gone there! I can’t tell you how disappointed I’ve been in some of the most so-called advanced spiritual thinkers during all this. I just try so hard to think that all this just goes to support my belief in the final battle before the balancing. It was always supposed to be a wild ride!

  418. I can’t believe she fell for the language. The language is right, but the behavior doesn’t support it at all.

  419. Night, all. I have work tomorrow. Thanks for the discussion.

  420. Wow. Maybe a mystical perspective is only a workable solution for this crisis if you acknowledge that there are greedy, self-serving, power-holding, fear-mongering forces/beings in this world who can buy a lawyer from Chicago, and get him to lead the people to their own discomfort and destruction? Carolyn Myss. Geez.

  421. Sophie: I know, it was strange, because I have really admired her heightened perception. It was a good test for me, and I think that’s what a lot of us are going through–continually examining and reaffirming our own convictions. That is the essence of principle. If it was easy to exercise, it wouldn’t be a principle. It is only when it is severely challenged, in the face of opposition and adversity, that it becomes a core conviction.

    There is an eastern saying: Knowledge of the Self is conviction.

    Same as “I know who I am.” That’s what we admired in Hillary. Despite the enormous forces arrayed against her, she knew who she was and what she was fighting for and kept going. That is what all great leaders do–Ghandi, Martin Luther King, the mystics. The whole world can tell them they are wrong, and their very lives can literally be endangered, and they do not sacrifice those ideals. That is exactly what I dislike about Obama. He stands for nothing. He gives up anything and anyone in the face of inconvenience, and then compares himself to Lincoln & MLK Jr! He is a phony, shallow mimic of great leaders.

  422. New open thread up. I’m kind of tired, so I didn’t go on and on. But please check out the links at some point.

  423. Karolina: Like most people, she probably does not have the information about him that we do. The MSM firewall is so all-encompassing that good people are completely misinformed. A got into an email confrontation with another good friend yesterday, because he thinks he is really well-read (The Atlantic, The Economist & The Nation). He spit back: “For Palin to say that Obama pals around with a guy who protested the Vietnam War 20 years ago is ridiculous.” I gave him the facts, and his next email said, “This is making me uncomfortable, because you have a lot more information than I do, and I think I am well-informed from trustworthy sources, so it is making me feel conflicted.”

    His answer was not to learn more, but for me to please stop making him uncomfortable with pesky facts. That’s where a lot of people are–and even worse, because he actually reads a lot!

  424. Nite Lakota.

  425. Sophie,

    Obama isn’t that leader, unless he can suddenly become honest, trustworthy, and experienced. The leader will have to come in 2012. Either Obama or McCain is going to take us further downhill as a society. Let’s hope we can recover.

  426. Totally uninterested in listening to those debating whether or not to sell their souls and vote for Obama. I pledged PUMA/Just Say No Deal.

    Go to confession if you want absolution. You aren’t getting it here.

    Voting for Obama “because of Hillary and Bill”? Give me a break. They can’t stand the man.

    Gotta love the Big Dog:


  427. fif: I truly think that it is more than just misinformation. I have always been heavily on the intuitive side, especially when I am meditating daily and balanced, and I have friends that are “psychics” (excellent ones) whom I have known for years and palled around with closely. ALL of the AA psychics are pro-Obama and very determined to get him to win. That could be the ethnic thing, of course, but these are people who have never before, as far as I know, refused to look at a person, and instead just accept the image he is projecting. Very creepy, mind-boggling, antichristish deal.

  428. Karolina: I’m heading to bed, but it is all quite strange. As I said above, the ultimate teaching is always to trust yourself and your own experience. For me, there is absolutely no internal doubt about what I have witnessed. I have such a rock-solid conviction that Obama is untrustworthy and inauthentic. I didn’t like him from the very beginning. Watching him for months has continually reinforced that first impression. For some reason, I (and us) are immune to the Kool Aid intoxication. Time will tell where this all goes, I can only rely on my own sense of truth.

  429. William, every machine has a unique Mac address. That is not the same as an IP address. My cable provider provides me with a new IP address evertime I log on.

  430. fif: ditto on everything that you said. Everything. I won’t write it now since you are heading to bed, but I had a dream about this time 30 years ago, and am trying to figure it out.

  431. bb- my next to last post at TL answering the question “how does BZero convince voters to vote for him?” – morph into a real human being. The plastic people in todays ‘society’ are deadening society’s conscience. BZero is nothing if not a fraud and easily identified if you really have convections of faith and base your life on respect of others as well as yourself.

    “you can be what you want to be” – only if you prepare. Life is not a movie and tee vee does not portray it very well. History is ignored – once you have told so many lies and you are still here to face them – Bu$h is a good example – where is he and his family going to live with any respect or honor? I know, I know, since the beginning of time – pols is pols, but this is like no other – the depth of the depravity is obscene. Lessons we were taught as children are not being taught anymore for a lot of different reasons. It is sad. It’s like people have lost all reason and greed is so overweaning it is suffocating. What’s been lost can’t be replaced by dollars. You live by hate – it will be your end also. Sorry for this rant – gloom and doom.

    i would very much like Hillary back. Someone honest bright graceful. Not perfect but shooting for perfection.

  432. IMO, the problem is the lessening of people who live by their principles and the increase of those who live by what they are told by the “experts.” Obama is presenting himself as one of those “experts.”

  433. elderj–I’m late checking back. You are right-so many political systems have been perverted and twisted. Look at all the countries that have democracy in their state names but are far from it. Such as Democratic Republic of——-blah, blah. It’s usually bs.

    And the Nazi analogy is right on-scary. You have probably gone and I have to go to bed one day soon.

  434. masslib: The polls are not supporting the notion that the race is over. They are still within the statistical margin of error. See edgeoforever today.
    And I am getting really sick and tired of people calling me a racist. I suspect there are a lot of us non-racists out there who are sick and tired of it as well.

  435. This is the best place on the web.I love it. I am so happy to know that there are so many out there like me that will never vote for BO and believe that the DNC sold Bill and Hillary and all their supporters down the river for an empty suit with a wad of cash.

  436. And I personally an sick and tired of daily polls. Every time a candidate passes gas the polls go up or down.

    Some polls have been shown to be skewed. So why pay any attention to the polls?

    As many before me have said; Kerry was up in the polls and he LOST! Course if he’s have fought for the votes of the people of Ohio he might just have won. But then Dems seem to like to roll over and play dead at the first sign of confrontation.

    We have a majority of Democrats in Washington now and have had since 2006. How’s that been working out for us so far?

    PUMAs are fighters, not wimps.

    NØbama NØway in NØvember

  437. The media hasn’t been reporting it too much, but Wall Street wasn’t overly excited to buy up mortgage securities at first. They thought people might default on the mortgages and they would lose money. The sellers got the bright idea of selling insurance policies along with the mortgage securities – if the mortgages defaulted, the buyer got his money back. The companies selling the policies didn’t really want to follow the laws requiring them to have capital to back up the policies. So to get around the insurance laws, instead of calling it an insurance policy, they’ve called it a “credit default swap.” AIG made so much selling “swaps” for mortgage securities, their employees in the “swap” department were making an average of a million dollars per person.

    Everyone was making money, mortgage securities were selling, the swaps were selling, everyone was happy. Until the mortgage defaults started and the companies who sold the swaps were having difficulties paying off the policies since they didn’t set capital aside for the possibilities of defaults. AIG went knocking on Paulson’s door. Now it turns out the entire world was investing in mortgage securities and bought the swaps to back them up. Financial markets all over the world are cricking and cracking.

    Senator McCain’s idea is to follow the Senator Clinton idea of stopping the defaults. Pay off the mortgages, write new ones. If mortgages aren’t defaulting, no one has an insurance “swap” claim. AIG wrote $450 billion in mortgage “credit default swap” insurance policies. No one knows how many more billions or trillions was sold in the swap policies. It’s a market no one regulates. The credit default swaps weren’t sold just for mortgage securities. They were sold for all kinds of loans and bonds. It’s estimated there are $62 trillion of credit default swaps sitting in file cabinets around the world. If companies from the mom and pop store down the street to the size of Exxon begin having problems paying their loans and bonds, those credit default swaps are going to come out of filing cabinets and into the claims departments of the companies that sold them.

    How do we stop the domino effect according to the McCain economic plan? We fix the mortgage problem. Senator Obama thinks this is a bad idea for the American taxpayer. I guess he thinks it would be a better idea to watch one company after another go into default and watch the swaps destroy one financial market after another around the world. That would bring a nice halt to capitalism.

  438. It seems to me that personal accountability has to play a role here somewhere. Yes, I understand that the housing bubble burst and all the fallout from that has led us to where we are. But, basically giving stupid, greedy people a free pass while those of us who were conscientious in our financial management get stuck with the bill is wrong. Period. The banker’s that are now lamenting the loss of their companies were smart people. They should have known better. The “poor homeowner “facing foreclosure on loans that suddenly ballooned beyond their ability to pay” knew they were taking a risk when they signed the papers. They had to. Anybody with half a brain knows you can’t afford a half million dollar house on less than $100,000 annual income.

    If we buy the loans at face then renegotiate the value of the home to its current market rate, we’ve rewarded the companies that made bad loan decisions, we’ve rewarded the individuals that made bad decisions and given the rest of us the bill. That’s wrong, folks.

    I don’t know what the answer to the economic crisis is, but I am confident that regardless of whether we implement McCain’s plan or not, the downturn is still gonna last 18 to 24 months and that we’ll survive the in the long run.

    That’s just my two cents (reduced to 0.25 cents after renegotiation.)

  439. […] Obama, the “Democrat” Opposes Homeowners Rescue Plan Let that sink in for a minute. According to the AP piece, Obama camp says McCain Mortgage Plan unworkable, Obama is […] […]

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: