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Post Debate Thread

So, who won?  What was the most important issue that came up?  Who had the best answer?  Use this thread to go over the results of the second Presidential debate.

And join us at Conflucians Say at 10:30PM EST for commentary, recapping and snark.

273 Responses

  1. Call in!!! 347-539-5420

  2. first things first – if you can afford it – click the Democrats for Principles Before Party over there to your left and help Heidi Li get those ads on the air asap!

  3. Woo-hoo!

    Bad questions and a horrible moderator. Can we please talk about the Social Security crisis that Brokaw pulled out of his ass?

    Since when is there a “bipartisan agreement” that Social Security is going bankrupt in the next two years? Jesus Christ!!!

  4. Hey guys, I’m calling in now!

  5. isn’t poland in nato already? that last question about russia was really bad on Obama’s part. he didn’t seem to know what he was talking about. he said we needed to give poland more than moral support. they are in NATO, we do…

  6. McCain. Just because.

  7. MadamaB: Another MYTH. SocSec will never go bankrupt as long as people have jobs in this country.

  8. McCain rocked foireign relations, connected with military personnel & service.

    I loved the Teddy Roosevelt line.

  9. sm77 – I KNOW!!! I almost threw my teevee out the window. That was PATHETIC.

  10. MadamaB: Listen to NPR radio – it’s better for the senses. Hillary was the BIG HUGE Donkey in the room as RegencyG said.

  11. And of course both candidates jumped on that privatization bandwagon and the “entitlement programs” frame.

  12. madamab – didn’t you have an interview yesterday? I may be hallucinating after that snoozefest but like to check things out

  13. Gary, I agree! what did he mean by supporting Poland more – in what way?
    Arent they part of NATO, and also part of the EU ???

  14. Okay, so the BBC commentator is saying NONE of the debates have been “game changers” so that means Obama/Biden won… ? I don’t think so.

    Palin kicked Biden’s a$$. And McCain answered questions clearly while Obama spoke in circles. IMO, all the debates have been won by the Republican ticket.

    So why is the media intent on looking like unprofessional fools?

  15. sm77—What are you referring to as pathetic—tv out the window?

  16. McCain, because he gave the best answer on Darfur, and his closing statement was excellent.

  17. MadamaB, I hear you about the TV throw. I remind myself that, even though my TV is 10+ years old, it still works well, and besides, I’d screw up my back.

    Thank god hockey season is starting. I hope the campaigns don’t think to advertise there.

  18. And just like after the last two debates I’m sitting here wondering just what debate CNN was watching. It’s not just that they’re twisting the events around or misinterpreting things, they just blatantly make stuff up!

  19. phlamingophred – It was today. I rocked it! I can’t believe you remembered that!! You’re amazing. 🙂

  20. Oh yeah- here comes frank luntz with his “undecided” voters – what a joke

  21. I’m on hold again…

  22. Jangles – The Social Security question from Brokaw made me see red! But my Teevee weighs a lot, so I would probably end up pretzelfied myself.

    🙂

  23. Did you guys know OBAMA was against the holocaust? Wow!

    Unlike everybody else who is for the holocaust.

  24. Interesting. Both the undecided voters on BBC are saying that they could not make up their minds after this debate. Well, at least BBC uses truly undecided voters.

  25. jangles, madamaB said pathetic –

  26. MABlue: Well Obama was obviously against the holocaust before ALL of those other people were!

  27. mccain wins for being the only candidate to offer relief to struggling homeowners.

  28. LOL @ MABlue!

  29. Gary – YEES!!!!!

    Of course, using Hillary’s plan.

  30. mablue: lets hope he doesn’t flip flop on that too….

  31. From the comments here it sounded like McCain came out ahead just on being personable. I thought the comment to a questioner about being cynical was not good and assume that came from Obama. I decided not to watch and see if I could figure out how it went from how it went for all of you. Isn’t it interesting that women in the process seem to make it more interesting. Or at least the two women we know.

  32. Okay, on BBC the one “undecided voter” is admitting that she is leaning to Obama but that McCain “made a comeback” tonight.

  33. Same ole questions. I wound up tuning out after awhile because of it.

  34. I didn’t watch the debate and if Obama, God forbid, wins the election, I will not look at the President of the USA for another 4 years, as I have avoided looking these past 8 years.

    I watched the returned SNL skit and it seems that what was taken out was Pelosi kissing the wife of the guy who screwed Wachovia bank, so maybe Pelosi was the one with the complaint?

  35. Lord kill me now. One of Luntz’s Obots, I mean “undecideds” said that Obama won because he answered all the questions & wasn’t snide — McCain didn’t answer any of the questions & was snide.
    They are re-writing history as I watch it.

  36. Obama has finally taken a stand! Step aside, he’s not going to vote present on this one!

  37. poland is a member of eu and nato

  38. McCain won for the exact opposite reasons the Luntz Obot said.

  39. McCain won when he said he was going to work on all of the issues at the same time. We don’t need to delay issues – there are plenty of competent people to work all issues.

    1. Hillary – Healthcare
    2. Rudy – Attorney General to prosecute Wall Street
    3. Hillary for everything else……….

  40. Was there even a participation of the people in the hall?

    Why bother with a townhall if there is no actual participation.

  41. if Obama, God forbid, wins the election, I will not look at the President of the USA for another 4 years, as I have avoided looking these past 8 years.

    exactly. what a bummer.

  42. I love how they always give obama a handicap. they did the same thing to hillary

  43. Karolina NYC, that’s where I am. If Obama wins it will be, for me, like the last 8 years and I’ll just tune out the POTUS. Sad, isn’t it, that this is where we are. I worry that the folks who gave us GW will give us BO. And we may never recover from the mess that is made.

  44. BO is talking about the “new Holocaust he will be starting”!

  45. oh god the whole thing was awful. So much for a townhall. McCain got screwed…he didn’t get his best format.
    He’s grown on me, but I still would’ve been better off not watching.
    I broke my vow to not look at or listen to Barky.
    Never again.

  46. I saw reactions on a local channel (11 – NYC) – McCain got As and Bs and 2 women hated Bo – one was swooning. One of the 2 PUMAs (I’ll assume) said he didn’t answer questions, he kept saying the same things over and over.

  47. Angienc,

    That Obot was in the tank. Undecided my ass.

    We need the Repubs to do spin.

  48. tom brokaw sucked

  49. I’m hearing (actually reading) the same crap we had throughout the primaries: “McCain didn’t score a knockout punch, which means advantage Obama”.

    Why is this guy never supposed to do anything, take any position or win a debate before being declared the winner?

    WTF is this?

  50. madamab – {{blushing}} – I’m not really amazing, I just think everyone here is worth the effort. But I appreciate that you think so! I’m so happy that it went well.

  51. MA Blue – the answer is obvious: because he is black. Not seeing is is …well, racist.

  52. I think McCain was billed as the walking dead man going into this debate tonight. So if the consensus is that he did ok; it was a “draw” then I say he won. A game changer to me would have been that Obama really scored a lot of points on him. Sounds like that did not happen. Game changer for McCain would have been body blows that tied character and poor judgment and poor economic decisions all together. Did he ever go after Obama and the Dems on Fannie, Freddie and ACORN? I think that was the big message he needed to put out there. It will be very interesting to see how many watched this debate tonight.

  53. Oops! used the “R” word – and got in moderation

  54. the fox news guys are freaking out about McC adopting Hillary’s housing bailout plan…

  55. The fix has long been in, MAB. Might as well face it.

  56. I was waiting for McCain to break away from the pack and he did not. Obama may have gained another point or two as a result. Very, very discouraging. Even if the questions were repetitive, they were only asked to answer their usual schtick and deliver the same stump speech.

  57. It doesn’t matter what the MSM says. People don’t even believe them. The viewers watched for themselves, and can judge. It’s better than the flat-out fabrications the MSM spews every day.

  58. Not being biased but I thought McCain won

  59. I watched the debate at the gym, which was conveniently empty in my section. My ‘throw the damn tv out the window’ moment came when Obama touted the Clinton surplus.

    I swear to god I thought I would go beserk, after that a**hole couldn’t give a shred, a sliver, a molecule of respect to the Big Dawg the whole friggin year. All that sh*t all over the MSM about Bill losing his legacy, in danger of losing the Dem Party, etc.

    I don’t care if he gives me a 25K tax break, I’ll never forgive O for that.

  60. Jeralyn Speaks: “Thankfully, it’s over. It was a terrible debate format, Tom Brokaw disappointed, McCain was incoherent, snivelling and condescending. Obama appeared Presidential.”

    Well, guess that’s that, then.

  61. Well what can the do Pat?

  62. gxm17— I hear ya!

    It’s an effort to try to be optimistic when you feel like you are thought of by the POTUS, and those that control him, as “one of the herds of cattle to be managed” instead of as a human being whose life and quality of life are important.

  63. OldCoastie – I loved that! I wanted him to say that he would appoint HRC as treasury secretary.

  64. I can’t even repeat the stupid shit Tweety said.

  65. “Why is this guy never supposed to do anything, take any position or win a debate before being declared the winner?”

    “Obama still has the main characteristics that led me to support him. He didn’t drop dead during the debate, which means he still has a pulse. His penis didn’t drop off during the debate, which means it’s still attached. I don’t have any other real requirements, he can eat puppies onstage for all I care.”–the punditry

  66. Carol,

    Could you take Rudy out of that line up. This guy has become nothing but a crook.

  67. what the heck is appearing “presidential”?

    I don’t get that. Lets abolish that statement. I like Sarah Palin bit she is not presidential. That term is based on a stereotype and we need to get rid of it. I think Mccain had better command of the issues.

  68. Why did John and Cindy leave immediately? The aftermath turned into the Barack and Michelle Show.

  69. jeralyn speaks? i no longer read what she writes as i have no confidence in her judgment.

  70. honestly, what little I watched… McCain was flat and lord knows as much as I hate obama…he still offered better answers than mccain to the questions

    I hate Howard Dean, Pelosi.. because if I’m a thinking American…one who doesn’t know what a sleeze Obama is, how he will NEVER fulfill one campaign promise, who will further corrupt our government, finish the destruction of the democratic party… you would vote for him because he has a more intelligible offering

    sigh… we are left to the furies…

  71. Why are you even quoting Jeralyn. I can’t stand her anymore. She sold all of her principles and beliefs out the window when she decided that supporting the Democratic ticket was more important than her own dislike for Obama and Biden. She was so adamantly against Biden for weeks then became an Obamabot overnight. Methinks BTD and TChris set her straight about being a loyal Democrat and placing Party before principles if she wanted to save her blog during an Obama presidency. Then she went off the handles when she started hating on Sarah Palin. She no longer has any credibility.

  72. Mccain doesn’t need to talk about middle class. He has Sarah Palin. Mccain and Sarah are a team. Unlike Biden and Obama who I sense ZERO chemistry here.

  73. They are now reporting on my local news that someone threw a brick through a rural county’s GOP office….

    it was not a surprise to me…my first thought…

    start your search for someone with an Obama sign in their yard, a sticker on their car and a glazed look in his eye

  74. I got a DNC donation request today. They actually had a sticker inside for me that said, “Ask me how many houses I have.”

    How idiotic is that? I stuck it back on their request and told them so, with a big NOBAMA for good measure.

  75. The “my friends” stuff got on my nerves. Neither of these guys are friends of us.

    And McCain walks like an old man when they do a camera shot from the back.

  76. claire mckaskill is really stupid.

  77. nijma, he walks like that because of injuries he suffered as a POW.

  78. but gary…she’s right… a good portion of viewers will go to the “age” vs “injury” thought first…

  79. You have to give her credit for using the word “snivelling,” though. Incoherent and condescending are covered under the Obot projection we’ve come to know and love so well, but “snivelling”? Not really a word that’s ever been associated with JM in the history of the world, I’d venture.

  80. Nijma: McCain is handicapped due to having been beaten for 5 years in a POW camp. Give him a break!

  81. Rudy’s out.

  82. Now blowhart on Fox is bringing up McCain references to Beruit. Okay I just turned to Keith Olberman and could stand about 1 second. They are having “phony rage” moments about McCains use of “That One”

    Grab waist basket and puke.

  83. Linda, my 20 something co-worker told he her teenage brother and his friends go out on the weekends and vandalize mccain signs. she laughed about it. Says at least he’s getting involved. they actually think that it is ok to do that sort of thing.

  84. Guess I should’ve included the snark tag on the Jeralyn post. I stop in at her place every now and then just to check the needle on the Psycho Meter. As predicted, she buried it again tonight. Don’t know whether to find her hilarious or just plain disturbing.

  85. Giggling Claire McCaskill is a moron.

  86. nite nite

  87. Someone stuff this stupid woman on Fox

  88. gary: yea, that’s the crowd he “inspires.” They really understand the value of our democracy. As long as it involves I-pods and snowboards.

  89. “..McCain incoherent..”

    LMAO!

    The only thing Obama communicates well is condescension and the obvious. The rest is incoherent drivel. An introductory university logic course would defeat him. His “writing” is insufferable and insipid. It defies me as to how anyone could think him eloquent or “bright”.

    Mark Shields I might add pre-debate said Mc shouldn’t go after O about Ayers and Wright, and then post-debate criticized him for having not done so. And they wonder why national scores in mathematics are abysmal..

    Thanks to you all for keeping me semi-sane!

  90. Njima: McCain can’t walk nor move his arms because he lived 6 years in a BOX and was tortured,

    So save that. Wrong crowd.

  91. Haven’t read all the comments yet but I think the biggest stinker was Tom Brokaw. Putz Extrordanaire. What’s with the phony basso voice? And at the end, Jiminy Christmas! He told both McCain and Obama to get out of his way cause he couldn’t see the teleprompter! All he had left was to tell when the next debate was. He couldn’t remember that? One of these guys is going to be President and they’re supposed to get out of HIS way???? No ego there.

  92. nite carol

  93. Good night Carol!!!

  94. nite-nite Carol!

  95. That houses thing again. Most of those houses are Cindy’s, many are investment properties, and McCain is man enough to let his wife manage her business independently. So why should he know? Of all the things to criticize him on, that’s the stupidest.

    Contrast that with Obama, who had to go with his wife on her job interview. A lot of people have assumed that Michelle “wears the pants” in that family, but I bet Barack pulls that controlling, passive-aggressive sh*t on her all the time.

  96. nite Carol, Trig, Piper, and Eddy.

  97. Nite Carol!

  98. Carol still has Eddy? I thought it was someone else’s turn tonight.

  99. There is nothing more annoying than an idiot who is so damn confident that he/she is a born leader, important, and doing important work that affects people who are stupider than him/her— and they have no frigging clue that they are being used by the people way above them to accomplish those powerful jerks own selfish, evil agendas.

  100. Why is conversation over the internet different than if I call the number?

  101. Overall I thought it was a very poor debate, probably the worst presidential level debate that I can remember right off hand. Wasn’t at all impressed with Tom Brokaw.

    On economic issues I felt it was pretty much a toss up. On foreign policy issues I think McCain had a steadier path. Came away scratching my head on Obama with invading Pakistan. So okay, if the Pakastani government is unable or unwilling to take Osama out and we have the intelligence we will act on it. Is that not attacking another country without threir permission? Does such action no generally upset the people/government of the attacked nation? I would think the Pakistan government right now would have the message that under Obama the US will do damn well as it pleases with our country.

    Thought McCain was extremely good on last question/closing remarks. Did not see any game changer moment from either side. Guess if I were to grade the winner I would probably give McCain a slight edge. I know the MSM will not even think it was close.

    Did catch some lady on Fox immediately after a debate saying that there was a game changer with McCain’s 300 billion idea of buying up mortgages. She seemed overly upset with the 300 billion on top of the 700 billion. My question to her would be so okay if the government buys up those mortgages and revalues the property and sells/of continues with the present occupant, does the government not receive those new readjusted sale price/mortage payments and thereby recouping a very substantial portion of that 300 billion? Can’t say I am totally upset with the idea even though I feel people should be more responsible and suffer the consequences for their own decisions. I could live with the idea as long as Frank, Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, etc. are no where close to it.

  102. Every so-called journalist from NBC sucks. I’m sure when Brokaw dies they will put him on a pedestal the way they did with Tim Russert. These guys think they are G-d. Truly disgusting. I’m still waiting for the next Murrow but I’m not holding my breath.

  103. phlamingophred: I think he may be lost somewhere in transit.

  104. interesting thing – I spotted this on TexasDarlin’s blog – but Google is celebrating their anniversary so they put up their earliest search archive from 2001. If anyone is so inclined, maybe something interesting can be found about our very good friend BO

  105. Don, I agree, but I was more than disappointed with McCains health care responses. If he’s travelled all over this country with town halls and I know people are describing the health care issue and this was the best he can come up with. Yuck.

  106. I don’t have a problem with the “my friends”

    Can I say that I hate Alan Colms? He is ineffective. Sean should just have his own show. Colms could not get people to watch him even on CNN. He looks like Don Knots.

  107. John McCain is still a Republican. He may be better than your average elephant but he’s still an elephant. He can’t go whole-hog UHC. He will lose. That’s it. Roll credits.

    What he’s proposing is the plan he can sell to the greatest number of people on both sides of the aisle.

  108. AAA Gal, yes from your lips to FOX management

  109. sm77:

    Fyi – the correct Teddy R. Quote is “Walk softly and carry a big stick.”

    It’s a great line, McCain slightly misspoke with “talk soft.” Just an fyi in case you liked that line.

  110. Don Knotts had a certain offbeat charm.

  111. Okay, guys, vivienne is going on and on and it’s getting late, and I can’t understand her very well in any case. And frankly, I don’t think the natural resources of England and Germany are quite the same as the ones in America. We have a lot more sun and a lot more wind, for example, and a lot more natural gas. So her estimation that we are being silly to think we can go to energy independence in 10 years has a lot of holes in it, IMHO.

    So, I think the verdict is that Hillary, once again, won the debate. If she had been there, we would have heard a real Democrat speak, but we did not.

    If we ever want her to have any power to get her ideas through Congress, we have to get McCain/Palin in.

    Night everyone! PUMA POWER!!!!

  112. “He can’t go whole-hog UHC”

    Well, since Kerry already said it’s DOA, it’s not like it matters anyway. “Mom! Girls touched it! MOM!”

  113. AAAGal — I’ve said it before — Colmes looks just like the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz & he needs a brain too.

  114. nite madamab!! You are so correct, we miss Hillary still and probably not realistically but her substitutes are so lame.

  115. Seriously: You hit the nail on the head. This is our Party. McCain should have said THAT.

  116. night madamab

  117. Night, Madamab.

  118. All Afro American Gal, on October 7th, 2008 at 11:23 pm Said:

    Excuse me if I de-lurk for a moment, but why do you insult Don Knotts? 😉

    ha ha…Colmes is so much worse!

  119. I’m going to bed too all — I have a headache (from stress lol).
    Thank you all for helping me through this.

  120. madamab, I also think we need to note that Europe has a better regulatory culture than we do. We had black lung, for example, years after it was abolished as a concern elsewhere because they’re serious about regulation, we’re serious about saving money to industry and screw health and safety.

  121. I loved Don Knotts and believe it or not, he was a ladies man. Colmes looks like a walking death’s head.

  122. First, everyone will have to look at Obama if he becomes President. His posters will be plastered all over and probably be required to be hung in people’s homes like Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.

    After touring the republican and conservative blogs I can understand why McCain did not speak out on health care. He gave us HOLC which is very unpopular over there so restraint was reuired for him to keep the repugs.

  123. The bottom line is we will be lucky if they 1/4 of what they proposed accomplish.

    Honestly, I hope no one thinks I am a bitch. I have healthcare. It was never in play for me even with Clinton. What happened to Clinton’s glorius health care plan.

    This is it for me and the DNC. I will be independent from now on. I am 36. I am married. I am TRYING to have a baby for months. Roe V. Wade is not important to me. Sorry I just realized that a lot of these issues that I cared about when I was a DEM don’t apply to me ormy lifestyle anymore. I was voting for Hillary because I liked and admire her. Forget the DEM shit.

    This election had changed me. I don’t want to be part of a party anymore.

  124. At the end what I heard was how the country had given Obama an opportunity…his mother got food stamps, he got scholarships, etc. And I have no problem with those things, but it’s always all about what someone can do for him. McCain talked about what he has done and wants to do for the country. The difference in attitude was loud and clear.

    MountainSage

  125. All Afro American Girl: You said it. We are royally screwed.

  126. nijima,

    Obama walks and talks like a used car salesman. He’s a hustler. That’s all he is. At least McCain has done some things in his life.

  127. FDR had shriveled legs and had to use a wheelchair. I’d take FDR over BO any old day.

  128. bb: lolol

  129. I’m off to bed too. Nite everyone!

  130. AAAG

    I don’t think you seem like a b**** at all!

    I am changed also by this election. I’ll never be a dem again after 26 years of voting dem.

  131. nite phlamingophred

  132. LOL Maybe we should decide this with some high jumping and a walk down the catwalk, important criteria for the job.

  133. The last question was definitive for me. What don’t you know? BO has MO to tell him what he doesn’t know. JM doesn’t know what is unknowable, the unexpected future, but has the experience and the judgement to deal with the unexpected as it comes up.

  134. Don, on October 7th, 2008 at 11:34 pm Said:

    Obama is taller, so he is more presidential.

    /snark

    Seriously, I think the media is partly in the tank for Obama simply because Obama is more arrogrant and condescending. The lemmings think that is leadership.

  135. My take:

    Browkaw sucked.

    Questions sucked.

    Format, while promising, sucked.

    Most revealing moment: Brokaw was trying to rein in BZero’s meandering answers and he whined, “I’m just trying to keep up with John.”

    Out of 300 million people, could not a more insightful crowd be assembled?

    Best question and only one befitting inquiring minds was, “What don’t you know and how are you going to learn it?”

    Talk tomorrow: McCain’s buying up bad mortgages.

  136. Don, please cease. “Purple lips” is definitely r@cist and AFAIK, RD does not want any such kind of commentary here on her blog.

    We don’t have to stoop to attacking Obama’s looks – there’s SO MUCH else we can, and have been, criticizing so well.

  137. Alan Colmes is the epitome of the problem of our media. all day long the left was crying foul that McCain “might” bring up ayers. He didn’t, now colmes wants to know if it would have been fair. WTF???

    plus, why do they question how mccain is going to pay for the HOLC thing but nobody ever asks obama how he’s going to pay for his programs.

  138. Gary,

    I’ve worked on a lot of campaigns, and campaigns normally spend a lot of time convincing their enthusiastic volunteers not to do that stuff. The think i see with the Obama camp is that they put zero effort into curbing the darker impulses of the volunteers. That’s why the campaign was so hateful against Clinton – Obama never once took a stand.

  139. Purple lips probably referred to his taking up smoking again. Lack of oxygen in the blood leads to discoloration of the lips and finger nail beds if I recall correctly.

  140. I agree that commentary on appearnce is irrelevant.

  141. That was the talking point last week, “Biden looks Presidential, Sarah doesn’t.” That meant he wears a suit, she wears a pantsuit, Presidents don’t wear pantsuits. With Obama/McCain it probably means McCain is old and walks funny, or whatever.

    “simply because Obama is more arrogrant and condescending. The lemmings think that is leadership.”

    He reminds them so much of their previous fave, GW, they can’t help but love him.

  142. Obvama had to lie, mislead, and break the rules whenever he could – just like in the primaries.

    I keep thinking:

    Kerry wanted 6 debates, Bush got out of 3 of those, so we only saw 3.

    McCain wanted 17 debates, Obama ducked and ran from 15 of those, so we’re only seeing 2 debates.

    So really, we are seeing less of Obama v. McCain than we saw of Bush vs. Kerry because that’s the way Obama wants it.

    That not only makes Obama a chicken, it makes him a bigger chicken than Bush.

    Food for thought.

  143. Gary, anything McCain says gets picked apart. Nothing that Obama does is ever submitted for the same scrutiny.
    This is a kangaroo court.

    Also it is easy for Obama to bring up other’s mistakes when he was not around to make any. Like Hillary and her voting for Iraq. I think Biden voted for it too by the way. I was so sick of him saying that about hillary.

    I am really angry right now. This election is eating at me everyday. I cannot STAND BO. It is getting unhealthy. I have started to entertain…I did not say accept. but entertain the inevitable..if BO wins. The positive is that I get to see that Obama will do NOTHING and all the Obamabots fall on their faces.

  144. Biden did vote for AUMF.

    Obama falls on his face, the entire party suffers. That means Hillary suffers and we as a country are screwed.

  145. What about that guy who hacked into Sarah’s email what happened with that?

  146. why isn’t anyone talking about what obama said about going to deleware and take care of their lax credit laws??? he threw his own running mate under the bus.

  147. Seriously, on October 7th, 2008 at 11:46 pm Said:
    “simply because Obama is more arrogrant and condescending. The lemmings think that is leadership.”

    He reminds them so much of their previous fave, GW, they can’t help but love him.

    I once wrote an article, “100 Ways Obama is Like Bush”…it was originally going to be 25…then it became 35, 50, 75…I flagged little around 89, then blew past 100…I should update it, since I’m near 120 now….sigh.

  148. Gary: talked about that briefly. Hilarious. He didn’t want Biden so much as he didn’t want Hillary. He’s knows so little about him that he forgot what state he’s from and that he’s in the pocket of the credit card companies up to his hair plugs!

    I would laugh but I’m too busy lighting candles at my Hillary altar. We’re going to need some heavenly oversight in the coming months.

  149. Seriously, on October 7th, 2008 at 11:46 pm Said:

    Seriously…Seriously, it’s like the bigger jerk is the most “presidential”, GW and now BO.

  150. Oblahma kept blabbering on about needing oversight for this and oversight for that. Although he chairs the European Affairs Subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which has oversight of military operations in Afghanistan, he hasn’t held one meeting to oversee anything about that war. If an Obama administration would oversee everything the way he’s overseen his subcommittee, we’re in for a lot of nothing. Same as usual.

    I don’t get why McCain isn’t hammering him on this.

  151. They hammer him with the voters. It never makes the media.

  152. Does this remind you of anyone?
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/narcissiststendtobecomeleaders

  153. And now he’s branching out from Bush to Nixon with the “truth squads” and threatening the licenses of stations that broadcast negative ads.

    Biden and kerry voted for it but only because HRC made them. It’s all her fault. She apologized, but John and Joe are still pretty mad about the whole thing. When she was sandbagged, their sins were washed away, but she’ll always bear the stain.

  154. sergeirostov,
    you should post it here or on pumapac blog…I’ve always thought Obama was running for Bush’s second term.

  155. Hillary’s letter to Paulson and company.

    Anglachel has a post on it but I wasn’t that interested so no link.

  156. Bush’s 3rd term. He’s already had 2.

  157. third term, right.

  158. I am so bummed. I wanted to follow along with all of you and all I got was invalid website. But I think we were having internet trouble.

  159. Guys, I have this freak stalking me on Gmail. typing yes we can over and over again.

    Help

  160. garychapelhill, on October 7th, 2008 at 11:55 pm Said:
    why isn’t anyone talking about what obama said about going to deleware and take care of their lax credit laws??? he threw his own running mate under the bus

    I was thinking the same thing.

    During the primaries I figured the MSM was coddling and touting Obama because he would be easier to beat than Hillary. Now I’m wondering if they are continuing to do so based on the (justified) belief that he would be easier for for the Republicans in Congress to kick around than McCain.

  161. AAA Gal, report the emailer as spam.

  162. Hillary’s Housing Plan. Now thats BI-PARTISANSHIP I CAN BELEIVE IN. I hope she gets credit and McCain joins her in calling for it. But with the media, it won’t be possible unless she makes a statement.

  163. Hi DisenfranchisedVoter…if you think Jeralyn is a sellout…I took a peek at the reaction over at TM and TM is quoted as saying

    “Absolutely. Obama’s performance tonight, building on the last debate, solidified his
    gravitas, if you will.

    McCain simply isn’t in his league. Few are.

    *************************************************

    “few are”…from that traitor…after all she said about him…now few are in his league…

    I suppose she thinks he is beyond Hill these days…

    I cannot stand these hypocrites…

  164. Can someone answer this question? How does someone go from Hillary to Barack Obama? I think this is where the DNC lost me and I essentially began to care more about the person than the party. I couldn’t stand nobama even before the primary

    I can even follow the “We need a DEM in office to punish bush”
    line of thinking but my problem with Obama is that he railroaded the better candidate to be at the top of the ticket. He has no ideas of his own. He looks like a senator not a president. You notice how he never mentions Illinois or what he did as senator?

  165. AAA Gal: I was just catching up, and I saw your comment about Alan Colmes. He DOES look like Don Knots. I couldn’t put my finger on it! Almost every night I bitch about Alan Colmes, Now I just immediately mute him–he is a grating idiot.

  166. Know what I’m thinking? The real star with staying power to come out of this campaign is not BO – it’s Sarah Palin, goldarnright. In the moments when I’m not simply despising him (and there are many), I find Obama downright boring. He has no warmth, no spark, no originality, no common touch, no humor about him. He’s a media creation and a dull one at that, when you remove the fireworks and seals and adoring crowds and $ signs and Greatest Speeches Evah (say, what?) and phony ‘narrative’. It’s Sarah Palin who’s the real deal, like her philosophy or not. The woman is authentic, full of oomph and fire and guts. She transfixes viewers in a way Obama cannot, with no smoke and mirrors anywhere in sight. The woman could probably appear in a flour sack, standing in a field of stubble in Nowhere Arkansas, and still pack a mighty punch. Regardless of whether McCain wins, Sarah Palin’s star isn’t about to set.

    Think this doesn’t piss off the Mighty One? What I wouldn’t give to see her go toe to toe with him and watch his head explode. His ego simply couldn’t take being in the same room with her.

  167. S-Angeltour: I haven’t been over to TM in months. She is a phony liar. She has shown her true colors and now I don’t even know whether I should’ve trusted the things she said about Hillary Clinton during the primaries. I am sure she was just pandering to all of us while we ate right out of her hand and others like Heidi Li donated hundreds of dollars to her site.

    If we are to believe anything that TM said during the primaries, she does not have a lot of respect for Barack Obama. To say that few are in Obama’s league is laughable.

    I would’ve stayed on her site if she had remained honest. But like Jeralyn, being true to oneself isn’t part of being a loyal Democrat anymore. It’s about submitting oneself to The One and his mission to become Preznit of the World.

    If Obama wins, I cannot wait to see him get torn down by the Repugs and all of us here who will make sure to hold his feet to the fire while TM, Jeralyn, the National Org. for Women, and progressive “feminists” give BO B-jobs and stroke his ego. Women’s rights and Democratic principles have been set back another 50 years and I refuse to be apart of the destruction.

  168. S-Angeltour,

    What are we going to do during Bush’s third term with BO as Prez? It will be worse than Bush’s first two terms, because the Dems and the progblogs will be rooting for him–at least until Rezko finishes blabbing.

  169. For those who missed the debate: two men, neither of whom is fit to be President, arguing over which of them is fit to be President.

  170. DV,

    How are people like Masslib and Allegre going to feel if they vote for Obama and he destroys social security and medicare? I couldn’t live with myself if that happened.

  171. Fif, I was at least glad that Alan stood up for Sean when that asshat from Obama campaign called him an anti-Semite .

    I also mute Alan. They want them to be like Siskel and Ebert but it is more like a Siamese twin and one of them is dead and just hanging there.

    I still can’t get over BO at the end and the adoring crowd with the photo ops.

  172. “I had learned not to care. I blew a few smoke rings, remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though. …” — Barack Obama

  173. nijma-

    Did you mean posting my article on my own blog and linking to it here? Or submitting it for publishing here?

    Hehe, I can see why you made that slip: in two terms Bush has only done one term’s worth of work. 🙂

    (Another way Obama is like Bush…unfortunately. )

    (I never thought I’d meet a Democratic politician who makes Bush look like a workaholic….)

  174. CBS found a bunch of Obama contributors using obviously fake names:

    CBS News has learned that two donors to the Obama campaign that gave a total of $7,722 appear to have made their contributions under fake names that look like they were written by a mouse running across a keyboard: Dahsudhu Hdusahfd of Df, Hawaii with the following employer CZXVC/ZXVZXV and Uadhshgu Hduadh listed as living in Dhff, Florida listed their employer as DASADA/SAFASF.

    CBS News did not find any records of these last names, towns or employers anywhere else. Newsweek reported two questionable Obama donors over the weekend named “Doodad Pro” and “Good Will”.

    Contributions from the two donors Hdusahfd and Hduadh were made on the same day starting on July 16, 2008. Federal Election Commission (FEC) records show the campaign began refunding the donations as early as August 6, 2008.

    Despite numerous refunds from the Obama campaign, Hdusahfd still has a record of giving a total of $7500 to Obama which is well over the legal limit for the primary and general election of $4600. Hduadh gave $14,200 but the Obama campaign returned all but $222.00.

    How could they refund the money to people who used fake names? I don’t get that.

  175. DisenfranchisedVoter, I completely agree with you and feel the same way…I stopped going to both months ago…TM is a cesspool of the same few immature, nasty people saying the same thing over and over…

    there is nothing worth going there for…very sad and disheartening…

  176. Didn’t watch the debate… they are too ho-hum… But everybody’s posts seem a little defeatist… It’s not what these clowns say… It’s how people react emotionally to them… Yeh, MSM in the bag for BO… Polls showing big win for BO, and questions to polls can determine their outcome… BUT, people, real people, not the intelligentsia elite have connected with Sarah.. And at the end of the day, despite all the financial crises swirling around, people are going to ask themselves not about positions, but rather who they feel they can trust… All of us KNOW that’s not BO… There’s time to pull this out… Let the Big Dawg out of the House and do his work… In his inimitable way he’ll voice his support for BO… very lukewarm, while putting the knife in his back… GO BIG DAWG…

  177. Can someone answer this question? How does someone go from Hillary to Barack Obama? I think this is where the DNC lost me and I essentially began to care more about the person than the party. I couldn’t stand nobama even before the primary

    Preachin’ to the choir here AAA.

  178. AAA Gal,

    Quotes like that are another reason I think Bill Ayers ghostwrote Obama’s first book. Obama is way too nerdy to talk like that. Let’s face it, he is a dork.

  179. Brad: I agree. There is still so much time left, and CBS & Zogby have him within 4 points. That’s nothing. Many undecided voters out there. People are just anxious and jumping the gun.

  180. I didn’t think it was a win – lose debate . I didn’t watch it . It was on in the other room . I could hear it . I thought McCain was precise & clear and Obama .. was Obama .

    of course, I am sick of him so when he goes into the blame game – without trying I glaze over then I don’t hear him anymore . I usually get his first line, then after that I somehow lose my thoughts .. & his voice . Truly, I don’t know if it’s me or him.. .

    I can follow McCain – I’m not able to follow Obama .

  181. I also mute Alan. They want them to be like Siskel and Ebert but it is more like a Siamese twin and one of them is dead and just hanging there.

    lol! On that laughing note, I’ll say good night.

  182. fif,

    In order to go from HIllary to Barack, you have to completely lose your sense of self by drinking koolaid, snorting koolaid powder, and injecting koolaid straight to the vein.

  183. Greta is on fire tonight, covering the Ayers issue and now talking about the Nevada raid on Acorn…said that they had recorded names of Dallas Cowboy football players’ names on registration forms in their offices and such….unbelievable. They said they didn’t make it onto the voter rolls, however.

    As to the debate: I had a sinking feeling during the whole thing. I am even more enamored of McCain, but wanted him to do more tonight. I think he was way too conciliatory. The only thing we can hope for is a good old terror alert to take the focus off the economy and Barky–maybe Bush can do a favor for Mac??

    I don’t think I can handle it if Barky actually wins. I’ve been out of work for the third month in a row (self-employed), and I’m running out of optimism about everything.

  184. Bostonboomer, oh so something else Obama has in common with Kennedy I guess. They say that Kennedy did not write profiles in Courage.

  185. Brad,

    It is discouraging to see that Obama is leading by 13 in PA, he is leading in MO and CO now, and he’s very close in Ohio. Even worse, he’s leading in FLA. I hope it can be turned around, but it really doesn’t look good right now.

  186. Briana,

    “Glaze over” is perfect. I do that often with Obama. He bores me and McCain is clear.

    With Obama you get a who, what, where, when usualy a why, but never a How

  187. AAA gal,

    JFK may have had some help, but it was probably from Ted Sorenson, not a former Weatherman who told people to kill their parents.

  188. bostonboomer, I’d feel better if I was watching an actual Republican destroying our nation. At least I’d be able to say, that’s not my Party, that person doesn’t stand for me.

    To see the people in my own Party (or what used to be my Party) act this way is heartbreaking. To see them become robots to ObamaNation while continually beating down on us because we refuse to be a part of this disgusts me. To see blogers I once respected quote Taylor Marsh but call Riverdaughter a racist and PUMAs idiots while they forgive Obama for voting for FISA and going on tour with a hate-monger homophobic just signals to me that it is time to withdraw my support from the Democratic Party.

    I expect to see the Democratic Party descend into madness if Obama wins which seems more likely with each passing day. They will scream hysterically at anyone who questions the Chosen One even when he acts like George W. Bush instead of a real Democrat. They wil call us racists if we call Obama out for betraying his promises while pandering to the Right and helping out his Wall Street buddies.

    It will be worse than George W. Bush because this sh*t will now come from the Democratic Party. It makes me wonder why I was so committed to the Progressive Movement and the DNC for the last eight years thinking that they would actually work in my interest once Dubya left office.

    I really don’t know what to say anymore. I think that after this election I will withdraw myself from any political involvement whatsoever and focus on other things. It’s too depressing.

  189. Boston, I have sort of given up. I still will vote for Mccain/ Palin.
    I will miss Sarah.

  190. If BO wins, he will be absolutely untouchable. The Republicans won’t be able to do a damn thing to him. The media will control the narrative. Why The only saving grace thus far has been the voters haven’t bought what the media is selling, but if they do, then he’ll have his kool-ade drinking followers who will change positions on anything, the media creating its own reality and the public swallowing it, supermajorities in Congress, it’s going to be as bad if not worse than Bush.

  191. bostonboomer, I’d feel better if I was watching an actual Republican destroying our nation. At least I’d be able to say, that’s not my Party, that person doesn’t stand for me.

    To see the people in my own Party (or what used to be my Party) act this way is heartbreaking. To see them become robots to ObamaNation while continually beating down on us because we refuse to be a part of this disgusts me. To see bloggers I once respected quote Taylor Marsh but call Riverdaughter a r*acist and PUMAs idiots while they forgive Obama for voting for FISA and going on tour with a hate-monger homophobic just signals to me that it is time to withdraw my support from the Democratic Party.

    I expect to see the Democratic Party descend into madness if Obama wins which seems more likely with each passing day. They will scream hysterically at anyone who questions the Chosen One even when he acts like George W. Bush instead of a real Democrat. They will call us r*acists if we call Obama out for betraying his promises while pandering to the Right and helping out his Wall Street buddies.

    It will be worse than George W. Bush because this sh*t will now come from the Democratic Party. It makes me wonder why I was so committed to the Progressive Movement and the DNC for the last eight years thinking that they would actually work in my interest once Dubya left office.

    I really don’t know what to say anymore. I think that after this election I will withdraw myself from any political involvement whatsoever and focus on other things. It’s too depressing.

  192. Lately I have been thinking about moving to another country. Like Ireland. I am sick of it here.

    Meanwhile look at this article I found will checking sites. terrible just terrible

    UNIONTOWN, Pa. — A man threw a microwave at his girlfriend, then fatally beat her after she refused to heat up sandwiches, police said.

    Walter S. Fordyce, 58, of Uniontown, remained jailed without bond Thursday on a charge of criminal homicide. It wasn’t clear if he had an attorney.

    Fordyce told police he began arguing with his live-in girlfriend, Mary McCann, 58, early Thursday.

    After throwing her to the floor, Fordyce threw a microwave oven onto McCann’s chest after she refused to heat up sandwiches for him, he told police. Fordyce also said he stomped on McCann’s chest repeatedly then banged her head on the floor until she lost consciousness — but that he also said he didn’t mean to kill her, police said.

    “It was an accident. I didn’t do it on purpose,” police quoted Fordyce as saying.

    Fordyce ran to a neighbor’s house for help, but couldn’t find anyone there to call 911, police said. After returning home and checking McCann for a pulse — and finding none — he went downstairs and drank a beer before going to another neighbor’s home and asking them to call 911, police said.

  193. However much of Profiles JFK did or didn’t write, the man had a deep, well informed sense of history, something Obama completely lacks. History, for Obama, would seem to begin with his birth. It all begins – and ends – with him. A terrible characteristic for a presidential candidate, just terrible. In this way, he’s just like Bush. Gaaah.

  194. tweety evil 👿

  195. McCain wasn’t the best I have seen him. But he blew Obama away on National Security. And his mortgage rescue plan was awesome.

  196. AAAG – that is one sick MF there….

  197. All Afro American Gal, on October 8th, 2008 at 12:14 am Said:
    Can someone answer this question? How does someone go from Hillary to Barack Obama? I think this is where the DNC lost me and I essentially began to care more about the person than the party. I couldn’t stand nobama even before the primary

    From what they have said, many Dems are voting for Obama based on the notion that any (D) is better than any (R)…

    …which is 95% true, but what if it’s the situation we have now? Is the worst (D) still better than the best (R)? Even when the (D) in question is using all the tactics of the worst of the (R)’s? I say no.

    . He has no ideas of his own. He looks like a senator not a president. You notice how he never mentions Illinois or what he did as senator?

    That’s because he can’t seal that record. If he touts it people will point out that he sat on his ass for 10 years and let others do 99% of the groundwork, then was handed their bills to sponsor and pass as if to pretend they were all his.

    [On a side note, I haven’t heard anyone call themselves an “Afro-American” since the 70’s (I always thought that was a cool bit of nomeclature 🙂 ) Maybe I should start calling myself a “Scando-American”…on second thought, maybe not. 🙂 ]

  198. Doesn’t matter, pagan – the pundits have already declared Obama Emperor For Life. The results were in before the first question left Brokaw’s lips.

  199. Hey boomer,

    I appreciate polls but they are not always an accurate reflection… Rendell and Nutter are not heavy behind BO in PA…

    It’s ‘kewl’ to be for BO… I think a lot of people have been intimidated and feel that if they don’t say they’re voting for BO then they’re considered racists or not ‘kewl’.

    I have friends that are Obamabots… and virulent about any mention of McCain or Palin… So to my friends, I tell them I’m voting again — third or fourth time — for the progressive Harold Stassen, Ralph Nader… That helps to keep them off my back… They feel I haven’t gone over to the enemy…

    This is a very emotional election… not going to be won on policy issues…

    Certainly, the OBOTs have the economics issue in their favor… at the moment…

    But as we are seeing with the world, life is very volatile and people’s sentiments can change in an instant…

    I am amazed that more people aren’t scared —- get very scared — about the OBOT youth groups, the deification of the ‘one’, and the audacity of arrogance… my suggestion for the title of BO’s next book should… heaven please help us… the messiah lose…

    Any way you slice it, it’s gonna get ugly….

  200. No one in my group can stay tuned to Obama for long. He is really a bore. McCain’s closing was leagues above Obama’s silly ode to himself.

  201. DisenfranchisedVoter, that would be fine with the powers that be.

    That is what I did after Dubya was assigned the Presidency in 2000, as many others here I am sure. It was a slight feeling of vengence that I felt when the whole country finally started to hate him, and I just watched, but mostly it was anger that so many idiots refused to see the truth and so allowed such damage to be done.

    I fear that is what is awaiting us in the next 4 years.

  202. Disenfranchised Voter,

    I feel the same way about seeing Democrats support this Reagan/Bush clone. For the past two years, it has seemed very likely that we would have a Democrat in the WH. Now we will either have Republican lite or Conservative Republican who sometimes does something unpredictable. Both candidates are acceptable to Wall Street, big oil, big pharma, and other major corporations.

    Ugh

  203. We need a bumper sticker that says-‘don’t vote, the media will pick our president anyway.’

  204. Gonna go decompress with some Monty Python. Good night.

  205. Sergei.

    I was too lazy to write African…. 🙂

    Thanks for your comments. See I was naive then. I thought if we got a bad D that some would suck it up and vote for R.
    I leaned that I am a centrist thanks to this election.

  206. So do you think Obama has thrown under the bus all of his Radical supporters. After all Obama got his start with Ayers, Wright, Soros and other middle eastern money men. Do you think he will throw these guys under the bus and work now just for GE and the top 1%.

  207. Just remember that the polls, exit polls, and media all said Kerry would win, and he didn’t. Don’t believe the media, and don’t be discouraged. We don’t need to be large in number to tip the scales away from Obama. We just need to be determined.

  208. Just to add a bit to the depression score: I not only feel betrayed by the Dem party, I feel betrayed by old media friends. My reading list is down to gum wrappers and Popular Mechanics.

  209. “I am amazed that more people aren’t scared —- get very scared — about the OBOT youth groups, the deification of the ‘one’, and the audacity of arrogance… my suggestion for the title of BO’s next book should… heaven please help us… the messiah lose…”

    They don’t know about it. Mostly the MSM is burying this information.

  210. Gore won that election, not Bush. The voters made the right choice. And they’re going to this time, too.

    Brad, it’s not just social situations, either. People are scared to death to let Obot coworkers find out they’re voing for McCain.

  211. I have no business doing this but I want to apologize for the Af-Am Obamabots. They simply want the first black president in office. As I said this before on this blog. That will carry its own Achilles heel and hang around his neck like an albatross.
    Take it from me. Blacks are never satisfied. See how they turned on Jesse Jackson? Someday it will be BO, believe me.

  212. Kat5 said: “My reading list is down to gum wrappers and Popular Mechanics.”

    LOL, mine too.

  213. fif, on October 8th, 2008 at 12:33 am Said:
    I also mute Alan. They want them to be like Siskel and Ebert but it is more like a Siamese twin and one of them is dead and just hanging there.

    Hey, they ARE like Siskel and Ebert

    …one alive, one dead.

    (Ok, maybe that was in poor taste…but I *really*miss Gene and Roger and their friendly sparring, and humor is how I cope….:))

    .

  214. Hey guys I am bushed (ha ha)

    I wil lsee you tomorrow

  215. Battlecat you want us to have faith. I hope you are right, but I knew Bush was bad news in 2000 and the election was so close Bush could steal it. There are a lot of Obots, I just don’t know how 49% of Americans can’t see threw Obama’s bs.

  216. I gave up on the *debate* after awhile.

    However saw this on yahoo politics or whatever:

    http://tinyurl.com/4uvt25

    I’ll wait to see what others than the MSM tell me what to think.

  217. Battlecat,
    Thank you. I totally agree with you. The left wing media (that I used to agree with) is trying to create a narrative that McCain win lose. Just like they tried to create the illusion in 2004 that Kerry was ahead in the polls and that he would win the election. However, the voters disagreed.
    Keep your chins up, folks. It is not over yet, and McCain is in better shape that the media would have you believe.

    McCain/Palin 2008
    Hillary 2012

  218. Kat5—me too. And for my viewing pleasure, it’s reruns of ‘Murder, She Wrote’, The Cooking Channel and National Geographic.

    My sister is so funny-just told me that she had a vision of MO as a dominatrix (sp?) standing over us old worn out women with a whip in her hand forcing us to pick cotton.

  219. Hey, Triple-A Gal, don’t take on weights that don’t have your name on them. I really can’t imagine how black Americans find the courage to openly defy the Obot pressure. I saw Sheila Jackson Lee on stage with Hillary at her rally in Austin and sat there thinking, “Hmmm, I’m not sure which of these women is the more courageous.” At any rate, as they say, this too shall pass…

  220. Battlecat, I agree. Even though the current economic situation undoubtedly works against McCain, I think anything could happen up until Election Day so the arrogant Obamabots like BTD who think that this is in the bag for The One are kidding themselves.

    I was on a bus traveling to different areas of my state on Election Day trying to get people out to the polls. At the time I was volunteering my time as a college student for the Kerry campaign. I was SO SURE that Kerry would win. I couldn’t believe that after 4 failed years of Bush, 9/11, and an unjustified war that the American people would be – yes, so stupid (I used to be a lot like the Obamabots in college and would often blame our nation’s woes on those ignorant hillbillies rather than the people in Washington) – to vote for Bush again. I remember listening to the radio all day and I was pretty sure by the afternoon that Kerry would win. All accounts indicated that Kerry was leading in the polls from what I can remember. I wasn’t until nightfall that I sensed any trouble for the Kerry campaign.

  221. Marial-so true, it’s not over. Actually, with the economy so bad, any dem. should be up 40 points at least.

  222. OK, my local news, all three stations showed up. I’m a female leader, but not one who’s in your face. I just watched one of the stations – the female newscaster showed 3 THREE Democrat parties, and 1 sentence from the interview she did at our house party (but three interviews) and she refused to interview me. Go figure. I told her what I do, what I represented, she said oh, thanks, great, I’ll see if I can interview you. I heard three men who were approached who directed her to me and she said, well ….

    What do you think? I already know what I think, but I’m curious if you’ve experienced this bias.

  223. All Afro American Gal, on October 7th, 2008 at 11:52 pm Said:

    Also it is easy for Obama to bring up other’s mistakes when he was not around to make any. Like Hillary and her voting for Iraq. I think Biden voted for it too by the way. I was so sick of him saying that about hillary.

    I wanted someone to point out that Obama in his much-vaunted 2002 speech was saying just what Hillary was saying at the time, that she was in favor of continued inspections and against preemptive war…and that when asked how he would have voted, he said “I don’t know…” I don’t know?!?! If he was really anti-war, how come he didn’t say, “I would have voted no”? Once again, he was ducking a tough decision. (which is practically his trademark. And then on top of that he had the nerve to say that Hillary’s vote made her complicit in Bhutto’s assassination(!). Disgusting.

  224. All Afro American Gal.. I am curious , did they really turn on Jesse ..?? I just thought it was ‘all politics’ .. I must say, his son is a piece of work – imo, .. he is trying to hard to ‘be’ someone .. suffers from the successful Daddy syndrome .. repeat , imo.

    Truly, I understand identity politics . I just wish it was one I could get behind.. He was my second choice .

    Ashamed now to admit it but JE was my first . Then I thought .. o.k. .. Obama . Then I started doing my own dd and found out .. “Whoa .. !!!! ” .. This guy has not accomplished anything .

    It was never that I didn’t think Hillary qualified , Frankly , I just didn’t want to hear all the Clinton hate again ..It was painful enough in the 90s ..

    however , after researching Obama – it became clear She was the ‘One’ . and that it was important for her to be our leader in these troubled times ..

    I got off subject .. ;)) do you mean AAs really, in their hearts believed all that stuff .. from Junior .. and the stuff about the Clinton’s being ra*cist .. etc..?? I figured everyone knew it was politics ..

  225. <iKat5, on October 8th, 2008 at 12:43 am Said:
    However much of Profiles JFK did or didn’t write, the man had a deep, well informed sense of history, something Obama completely lacks. History, for Obama, would seem to begin with his birth.

    It’s worse than that – remember the “Selma Confabulation?” Obama seems to think he was born in 1964, not 1961. He can’t even get his OWN history straight. 🙂

  226. Briana, on October 8th, 2008 at 1:23 am Said:
    do you mean AAs really, in their hearts believed all that stuff .. from Junior .. and the stuff about the Clinton’s being ra*cist .. etc..?? I.

    [AAA gal is gone for the night…]

    I would say no, that most just needed an excuse to vote for an AA candidate over the better qualfied one, needed to make themselves feel good about such a bad candidate…some, however (such as Spike Lee, Rev. Wright, etc.), really do believe all that, but they are in the minority. This is just. my opinion though.

  227. You know, Conflucians, I could not even be bothered to watch this debate. These events are so contrived at this point.

    Wanted to let you all know that we have raised enough money to buy one spot in the World Series – game one! – which is very good and happy news. If we raise another couple thousand bucks this week we can run in Pennsylvania and Florida next week.

    I also had a LOT of work to do, including putting up a post that will surely annoy people again – oh well, better to be be annoying than dull. Check it out if you are inclined and please please note that I am saying I am student of Dr. King’s work not that I am Dr. King or as important as Dr. King – this is the url – http://tdg.typepad.com/heidi_lis_potpourri/2008/10/i-recently-invoked-martin-luther-king-jr-as-an-example-of-somebody-who-fought-for-justice-without-regard-for-present-popular.html

    Thank you all so much for supporting the ad buys and for being a real confluence of good folks.

  228. Regarding the MSM and who they favor: during the primaries, I figured they were in the tank for Obama because they thought he would be easy for the Republicans nominee to beat in the GE. Now I wonder, are they still fawning over him because they figure that he will be easier for the big corporations, Congressional Republicans (and possibly the GOP leadership) to kick around than McCain? Scary thought.

  229. All Afro American Gal, on October 8th, 2008 at 12:57 am Said:

    Dear AAA-Gal: I couldn’t hop of this thread without saying that I understand why you felt compelled to write what you did, but you never have to apologize for the conduct of people over whom you have no influence.

    The entire issue of race has been rendered that much more complicated and wretched by the way Senator Obama and the DNC have treated it. This is part of why I refuse to be told that I can’t learn from Dr. King. What, only black people can learn from Dr. King? That certainly is not what he thought, or wanted.

    Anyway, AAA-Gal, I agree with the person who said don’t take on weights you don’t have to. Although I admire you for being the sort of person who does that sometimes.

    Regards,
    Heidi Li

  230. Didn’t watch the debate–can’t stand to look at (or listen) to BO. Have done the same with Georgie Boy for over 7 long years. Yep, trying to be nice to my stomach, every time GB appears on TV I change the channel.

    Reading this blog is the only info I’ve gotten in re to how the debate went. It appears that, as normal lately, BO probably lost, but since he didn’t fatally screw up…

    Sickening crap. Need to scrap the bottom of my pockets and see how much I can find to help Li and her group get those ads on their way.

    McCain/Palin 2008
    Hillary/? 2012

  231. I thought McCain scored some points with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and especially with the mortgage buy out plan. Of course he he did better than Obama on the international issues.

    Obama had his best moment when he ripped off part of HRC’s health plan spiel.

  232. Gah! The msm is making a HUGE deal of the fact that McCain referred to Obama as “THAT one” (in reality the entire quote was “which one voted for it? That one” — not quite as condescending as they are making it sound). Obama sent an email out about right after the debate and the pundits were happy with their “Obama approved” talking point.

  233. Oh boy. I’m sure that will be racism too–“It’s like he said you people! That one!”

  234. Well, Colms can’t help the way he looks, and maybe he has health issues. It’s what he says that I have a problem with. I usually change the channel and keep checking back for Hannity.

    I thought Obama’s “I’m not hearing this — la-la la-la-la” smile looked like something out of kindergarten. I guess he was trying not to have his usual condescending smirk, but his “I’m in my happy place” smile just came across as creepy.

    Plus, somebody ought to be keeping score of the wars and invasions BO says he’s got planned for the US. Sounds like we’ll be out of Iraq, and fighting just about everywhere else. And doing a preemptive invasion of Pakistan based solely on intelligence. Hmmm.. does that sound familiar?! At least Iraq was only reputed to have nukes; Pakistan definitely has them. I guess Obama really wants to be Bush 3 — or better yet, emperor of the world (“Age of Obama”, his own greek columns, two “auto-biographies” that even needed composite characters — his life is so jam packed with interesting people, you know — when he hasn’t done anything, etc).

    It was very kind of McCain not to point out that Carter started this whole mess with the well-intentioned but poorly executed Community Reinvestment Act. McCain is probably not wanting to antagonize any Dems who have fond memories of Carter (yeah, I think of him every time I turn the thermostat down). But it was a mistake not to point out Obama’s involvement with ACORN, and the role they both played in the current economic mess.

    I want a Hillary/Palin ticket to vote for (now THAT would be a balanced ticket), but McCain/Palin will do. I’m liberal enough that allowing gay marriage just seems like common sense (I have faith that the rest of us will not lose our sex drive as a result, so I’m pretty sure this change will not cause mankind to go extinct), and conservative enough to want limited government that does not impede the liberties of its citizens. To my mind, believing the second item makes the first item a gimme. (Jefferson paraphrase: a government big enough to supply all your needs, is also big enough to take everything you’ve got.)

    Not sure what to do about the unDemocratic party though. If BO wins, I will definitely leave it, because it is rotted from within, even though I have been a Democrat LONGER than BO. But if he loses, maybe Dean Pelosi etc will get kicked out and the party will go back to being a lovably odd cooperative effort of independent thinking unruly cats. Like PUMAs!

  235. obama won, but only because he channeled hillary….geez – he really does like to lift whole passages from a script…..

    he channeled her on healthcare, he channeled her on the economy (so did mccain) and suddenly he “cares” about the middle class….

    i don’t like mccain on the issues – but i’m voting for him anyway because i made that committment to myself that i would never forget just how angry i was all year about hillary’s treatment and obama’s cheating to get where he is….

    so for the first time ever – i will vote mccain/palin……

    it doesn’t matter – i’m in cali and BHO is running 20 pts ahead of mccain here.

  236. Obama simply regurgitated McCain’s statement on Israel. That man is an unabashed cheater/copier especially with his universal health care statement which is a word-for-word lifting of Hillary’s plan–without ascribing it at all. Shameless!

  237. Okay, I’m sick of this sheeet. Heidi, I just donated some big dineros to help you put Obama out of action. Thank you so much for all you do.

  238. All of this is simply predictable when dealing in the world of flim-flam, which is the world of Barak Obama, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Fox News, etc., etc. When you compare all of the fluff from these sources to what Congressman Ron Paul has to say, then you start to get that there is a difference between fantasy and reality.

  239. Hey Cliff, good luck with that.

    Did you even bother reading about what we believe in on this site?

    Never mind, don’t bother.

  240. To add to the above, Hillary Supporters, Obama Supporters and McCain Supporters are all pretty much the same. They actually believe that there is something really happening in the political arena. Like people who believe that professional wrestling is real. The only time something actually happened in US politics in many, many years, is when Ron Paul was on stage during the Republican debates.

  241. Yes, I read it. I noticed you mentioned “I believe that deficit spending is justified to pay for infrastructure but not for unnecessary wars.” I wouldn’t agree with the first part, but certainly with the second. Ron Paul is the only candidate from either party (with the possible exception of Mike Gravel) who even talked about the problem of deficit spending for unnecessary wars. By the way, I define unnecessary war as anything other than incoming missiles or enemy troops pouring over the border.

    I didn’t hear either Hillary or Obama or McCain talking about the money we could save if we closed our 700 bases all over the world (like, why the heck are we defending Japan?) and stopped trying to police the world. The savings would be in the trillions, which you could apply to your universal health care or anything else you would like. While I have no illusions that you abandon your favorite candidate(s), you might ask them why we need 700 bases all over the world, and why they haven’t mentioned it.

    We don’t have to agree on everything to have a useful dialogue.

  242. Why did Ron Paul even run as a Republican if he believed all 700 bases need to be closed down? Republicans believe the exact opposite.

    Why didn’t he run as a third party candidate?

    Just curious.

    The problem, Cliff, with anyone coming here trying to have “useful dialogue” with us is that they are usually from the Obama camp trying to get us to do anything but vote for John McCain.

  243. “So why is the media intent on looking like unprofessional fools?” Unprofessional yes, but fools no. They want Obama to win and that is how they are framing their reportage. They played the same game with Bush, whom they wanted to win, and Hillary Clinton, whom they wanted to lose. Now Obama is their heart-throb of the moment, their manly man of destiny, and they are spinning their words to burnish his image.

  244. so the debate even with the umm umm of obama is a tie? crap…I am still hoping that the american public see through this empty suit that Obambi and Bullwinkle are and just not vote for him…

  245. I wouldn’t dream of asking you to vote one way or another, and it is all the same to me whether McCain or Obama wins. It is a tossup who will do a better job of destroying the country and the world, and if there were no alternative, I would just leave the President slot blank and cast my vote for the vacant seat(s) in Congress, which is more important anyway.

    To answer your question, Ron Paul, like you, believes in principle more than party, and if the party strays from principle, it is time to take a stand for cleaning house. And leaving the dirty house to start or join a newer one is not the answer either. If the Republican party returned to the original principles of minding our own business, sound money, low taxes, etc, most of the problems we are facing today would cease to exist.

    It’s interesting to note that the Nevada caucus was shut down because Ron Paul was about to win it. And if you notice the Time Magazine with the Obama-of-the-heroic-pose issue, we might see the men behind the scenes operating to limit our choices to what is acceptable to the business-as-usual crowd in New York and Washington.

  246. I was checking post debate newz and came away with only one good piece of info:
    “McCain, the anti-tax conservative, proposed the night’s only new government program: a $300 billion plan to help beleaguered homeowners, which might have made Franklin Roosevelt proud.” From Yahoo.

    Yea! I actually wrote to McCain to ask him to do that and he did. (I posted this in some previous thread.) So now that he did as I asked, right away, I pretty much have to vote for him, eh? That is rapid response.

  247. I’m left wanting to not vote and boycott anything Brokaw ever touches. No substance. No answers.

    Cliff: agree on some points (MSM, camps being the same, etc), but Ron Paul? The guy wants a return to the gold standard, has said so many times. Problem is, the gold standard only worked because the entire international banking system was on it. It was abolished because everyone else started dropping it. If the US were to even try and adopt the gold standard again, we would most likely enter into a worse recession/depression than what’s coming now. Bad juju.

    Still can’t even consider voting McCain though…the thought of up to 3 supreme court justice appointments being conservative…I’d rather just not vote. Being that I live in CA, my presidential vote doesn’t really matter anyways, so I have that “luxury”. Would love to get rid of it though.

  248. Intelligentbydesign, I never thought I could vote for McCain, but seriously, if I believed he’d start acting like FDR, I would do it. I want to vote Green Party and probably will, b/c I also live in blue state in the tank for Obama (although I thought for a while it could get close). I think we have to vote our consciences–whatever they tell us to do. I am not sure I will know until get in the voting booth. The only thing I know is that I will never vote for Obama. This year has made me rethink everything political.

    Cliff, I no longer write off people who say the two parties are the same. I used to think Nader was a spoiler. Now I see why McKinney, Nader, Ron Paul, et al, are essential. If we listen to them, we see a much broader spectrum.

    I would vote for Hillary today if I were able. I don’t think she ever believed the fix was in, even though it was, and I love that she fought for us. Maybe she even knew and kept fighting for us, thinking she could overturn it. I see her as far more liberal and about true, workable change than any other person in power. But I am disappointed that she went along with the bailout. oh, well…

  249. I am beginning to wonder if this is a Republican-corporate plan to lay this big financial mess at the foot of an unprepared Democrat (that would be Obama) to finally destroy the Democratic Brand. Its only 4 years of pain that we Americans are about to experience because there will be no money for any of these plans and programs will have to be cut. One of Obama’s statements stood out. He said it was only from Michelle that he learns when he doesn’t know and she is his teacher. Thats paraphrasing big time. I’d like to hear the exact quote if anyone remembers it.

  250. Honestly, if I believed he’d start acting like the McCain I grew up with, I’d consider voting for him. I became politically aware in the 90s, and watched McCain beat a path that actually had some values and some morals to it. He didn’t pander to the Falwells of the world, spoke out against torture, was against the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and made his campaigns about issues and substance. Unfortunately, it seems you can’t be a viable candidate if you hold those beliefs. It’s been truly sad, disheartening, and disenfranchising to me to watch the the McCain I saw before I could vote become one I can’t bring myself to vote for now that I can. Looks like this CA voter might once again have to cast a ballot to try and redistribute funds to a 3rd party. Can’t I just vote present? Seems to work for our elected officials…

  251. Tom Brokaw – “how cool Senator Obama is”!

    Sick!!!!!!!!!!

  252. […] 8, 2008 · No Comments posted at the Confluence “Why is this guy never supposed to do anything, take any position or win a debate before being […]

  253. Make sure you see this slimey Robert Gibbs, my favorite part – he doesn’t know if Obama has ever set down with Farakhan:

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/08/this-exchange-is-a-riot/#more-5314

  254. What i found to be soooooo funny last night I actually laughed out loud was the part where Soledad O’Brian
    on cnn was with a group of independents and undecideds. While the cnn commentators were pumping up Obama, she asked them after the debate to hold up their hands if they were for McCain now, 14 held their hands up out of 25, LOLOLOLOLO and then the commentators said they just didnt understand that. Well, of course they didnt because the average people thought he won, while they have had the minds made up day one and have been pushing their own agenda. You would think they were all running for President.

  255. intelligentbydesign:

    you don’t appear to be interested in saving America from obama and his”friends”. Or do you?

  256. a vote for anyone but mccain in this election is a vote for obama. period.

  257. I’m just watching the debate now (taped) and I will let you know who won. I’m the decider. LOL.

    (1st question — Holy Incredible HOLC –Did McCain say his plan is for the govt to buy up bad mortgages?)

  258. McCain’s proposal to buy up mortgages was brilliant. This is the help for struggling Americans that was not present in the bail-out bill. Kucinich said Obama specifically told other Democrats that he didn’t want this type of thing in the bill.

    We are truly in bizzaro-America right now. The Republican is proposing FDR like policies and the Democrat is balking at them.

  259. myshiba — I wouldn’t listen to intelligentbydesign – as I think he is just trying the new Obot tack (i.e., get us to vote 3rd party). He doesn’t seem to realize that the one and only thing that came close to standing for democratic principles (ie, helping the little guy) last night was McCain’s position that we need to bu the mortgages & help people stay in their homes.

  260. The new Obot tactic on this site is to try and convince you to throw your vote away on a third party candidate. They realize we won;t vote for Obama, so that is the next best thing for them.

  261. angienc, lol

  262. Well Ladies and Gentlemen – here it is in black and white:

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/08/edits-needed-s-snapshots-of-2001-reality-is-not-what-it-seems/#more-5287

    He has to go down in flames!

    CAROL HAKA 👿

  263. Still watching the debate. I get annoyed by BO telling the questioners ” you aren’t thinking about that … you don’t care about that … what you care about is …” reminds me of every jerk who ever thought he could tell me what I think and what I feel.

  264. The most important questions to be asked when swimming through the pre-Nov 4th political rhetoric soup might be something like, is someone behind the scenes manipulating the outcome, and if so, what do they want?

    For example, the Federal Reserve is a council of profit-making banks which uses the power to create money out of nothing, and to manipulate the market, to make billions, both in interest on money that the don’t own, and from insider trading. Would they not try to influence the election process to make sure that this gravy train doesn’t get disturbed? It is at least possible. And that is only a tiny fraction of the special interests that could be involved in electing someone as President.

    The comment above about the gold standard is a case in point. Governments have traditionally abandoned the gold standard when they want to make war, because it is virtually impossible to pay for a war without stealing from the public, as is possible with inflatable currency. So one might think that, say, munitions manufacturers would be very much against the gold standard, because war is good business, and would therefore have a vested interest in spreading the propaganda that is reflected in the above comment about the gold standard.

  265. My ‘throw the damn tv out the window’ moment came when Obama touted the Clinton surplus.
    I swear to god I thought I would go beserk, after that a**hole couldn’t give a shred, a sliver, a molecule of respect to the Big Dawg the whole friggin year.
    ==========

    parentofed, my sentiments exactly.

  266. “Purple lips” is definitely r@cist
    ——

    Chevalier, purple lips/blue lips is no more racist than mentioning the lump on McCain’s face is agist. Both are disturbing conditions. At least with McCain, we know what has caused his lump. Why does Obama have those purple lips? AA’s have brown/pink lips. Blue lips are often an indication of circulation problems or worse.

  267. It was a wash. Nobody really said anything new or convincing. McCain’s statement that ” you probably never heard of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac before this was pretty insulting to the American people”.

    Both of their health plans are horrible. Obama was right that we never should have gone to Iraq, McCain was right that the surge worked to reduce violence, though Obama has conceded to that fact. McCain still won’t give a definition of winning..which is completely insane…all he ever says is that our troops will come home with victory and honor. Well, the troops could come home today with honor and victory in the mideast has been fleeting for thousands of years.

  268. […] Post Debate Thread So, who won?  What was the most important issue that came up?  Who had the best answer?  Use this thread to go over […] […]

  269. President Obama won the debate hands down.

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