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    • The Left Wing “Shit Sandwich” Dilemma
      Kamala Harris and Joe Biden each have terrible records. There is no reason to believe they will do much that is good, and every reason to believe they will do much that is bad. Trump will, at least for Americans, probably be even worse. (It is less clear he will be better for foreigners.) The […]
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Post VP Debate Thread

So, how did it go?  Was Sarah as dumb as box of rocks?  Did Biden show his most eloquent side?

Grab a Cocktail and tell us what you think.

This is a live thread.

564 Responses

  1. am I first?

    I didn’t see Heidi Li – but I want to put a plug in for her for donations tonight

  2. MSM killing her….. They’re just mad she called them out at the end about filtering her comments…

  3. new meme about sarah from cheetoville WWTSBQ II

  4. Sarah Palin was nominated for VPOTUS exactly 5 weeks ago.

    That was quite an impressive performance.

  5. I thought Sarah did well tonite…which is all she needed to do ….IMO

  6. I thought she was great. The MSM really trashing her? Hmmm.

  7. cant stand it… have to watch fox news

  8. She scored a touchdown and homerun all by herself. It never pays to underestimate someone. They will fool you every time. She was outstanding even if you don’t agree with her 100%. Hope he gets a boost from this since the polls show Obama pulling ahead.

  9. I thought she came across very professional and demonstrated that she was competent and knowledgable.

  10. She was fantastic! Biden – boring as usual

  11. everyone stay out of the spin room! it will only make you dizzy and I know y’all want all of your cocktails!

  12. let’s be honest…. she wasn’t going to win the election tonight…. but her failure could win the election for obama….. and we still got an election because she repaired her image, imho.

  13. I can’t stand the 3 US channels I get, so I’m listening to the end of the Canadian debates…that MSM needs a reality check.

  14. I don’t watch any MSM on politics.

    Isn’t true they are killing Palin? How is it possible?

    WTF is going on?

  15. She impressed the pants off of me, gosh darnit! Seriously, I thought she did amazingly well considering the short time she has had to familiarize herself with this stuff.

  16. nbc just said they both did fine but no one cares about the vp debates. Of course if she had done poorly, they would have talked about it forever.

  17. Let’s see… MSNBC is really in the tank for Obama. Warren Buffet endorsed and advises Obama. Warren Buffet invested billions in GE, which runs MSBNC. Hmmm. Interesting.

  18. The MSM really trashing her? Hmmm.

    Shocked, I tell ya. lol!

  19. I don’t watch pundits. I believe by my lying eyes that she did damned well.

  20. Sarah was great! Her answers were clear, concise, easy-to-understand. No elitism. It was very refreshing.

  21. Is Ricco tending bar tonight? He makes the best margaritas!

  22. Everyone in the focus group said Sarah won.

  23. omg fox is talking about how attractive she is UGHHHH

  24. I thought she did a fantastic job! Very much the consummate politician – regardless of her actual experience level.

    I also heard someone on WGN Radio here in Chicago defend the fact that the MSM and everyone else needed to back off on anything not having to do with her policies, experience, etc. So refreshing to finally hear that from anyone.

  25. wow…. almost everyone in the fox news sample crowd thought she won… remember, this fox news sample crowd for the mccain debate thought obama won

    wow…. could pay dividends

  26. The focus group on Fox is giving Palin the win almost unanimously.

  27. MT: Rico has offered to tend bar tonight. What’s your poison?

  28. 100 undecided voters are giving this to Biden according to CBS.

  29. Fox

  30. Shields and Brooks are talking about Joe’s moment, that it was genuine. That aside they think she did well. Shields begrudgingly agrees. Brooks seems uncharacteristically thrilled. I think she is real. Joe is nowhere near that.

  31. She was the underdog going in. She did not mess up. She wins.

  32. NV Swing Voter, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 pm Said:

    100 undecided voters are giving this to Biden according to CBS.

    Really? All hundred?

  33. Jack Tapper ABC says that Biden lied about the McCain vote (that McCain voted to increase taxes on people earning more than $42K a year).

    And Palin used fuzzy math when she said Obama voted 94 times for tax increases.

  34. She was great. And I believe she won a lot of hearts tonight. Especially of the average Americans who usually tune the political blather out.

  35. Sarah wants another debate; you can tell. They should have another.

  36. this focus group on fox news lovin palin

    if that is representative of america, this just became an close race again

  37. Having shunned the MSM months ago I could give a sh*t what they are saying. She was great! Held her own, brought the discussion around to what she wanted to say, went toe to toe, and smiling all the way! Loved it.

  38. Luntz just declared a shift will occur in the next 48 hours.

  39. RD – are there any munchies tonight? I enjoyed the debate but it seemed a lot longer than it really was and my cupboard is bare.

  40. I think she did really well, Biden seemed a little to smug, but of course by tomorrow its going to be yet another crushing victory for Obama/Biden over McCain(Bush!)/Palin(Bush!) in the MSM.

  41. greta likes her. she really likes her! smile

  42. Gwen did a beautiful and impartial job. I am very proud of her.

  43. Mum says she is refreshing.

  44. Biden was Boredom Personified. Did you catch the teary-eyed moment? Anyone willing to bet that the media give him a pass on that?

  45. She needs to debate Obama…she’s better than mccain

  46. she would blow obama out the window!!! 🙂

  47. Frank Luntz’s focus group LOVED HER !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  48. That was weird how Jake explained the fuzziness. He said it more like 47 times but the example he gave that shouldn’t count was a tax increase.

  49. Hmmmmm. Would that be the same “fuzzy math” that Obama uses when he comes up with stories about his parents “getting together” years AFTER he was born, or basing his position on a Powell speech that came months AFTER his?

  50. what teary-eyed moment? when he talked about his sons/wife/daughter?

  51. I don’t think it is a bad thing that Sarah Palin is attractive. One of the great things about her is that she completely explodes the bimbo myth. A woman can be both smart and attractive. How about that!

  52. I thought Palin’s strengths were mainly in the area of delivery and style. I thought Biden was more substantive.

    I’m voting for Nader.

  53. phlamingo: We are having a late supper. We have a Tartiflette and a mixed green salad with a mustardy vinaigrette.

  54. Palin met expectations, which were low for her. That is the story. She survived the lion’s den of being on the same stage as one of the strongest debaters in the country, Joseph Biden.

    Biden won the debate, of course, but that isn’t the story.

  55. While Obama is searching for the teleprompter and heeing and hawing during an answer, Sarah could fill in those blanks with facts. Would love to see a matchup.

  56. Rico, I’ll have a Hillary Wallbanger, please.

  57. keith o is probably choking on his bile!

  58. OMG – MSNBC just said she was “polarizing”. Now, where have we heard that before!

    These people are creeps.

    CAROL HAKA 👿

  59. Biden is a strong debater? Not the one I saw.

  60. I don’t know who is on the radio, but Palin vetoed a bill that would have banned same-sex benefits. I’ve heard gays in her state love her.

  61. susannunes: We are checking IDs tonight. You have none. Go elsewhere.

  62. Just peaked at mydd, and the boyz love Biden’s tears. Now it’s OK for Biden to tear up but not Hillary. Give me a break! And Sarah was great.

  63. “She needs to debate Obama…she’s better than mccain”

    And Biden should debate McCain, for he’s better than the other three put together.

  64. Carol, would Ifill have done as well as she did if she wasn’t under a lot of pressure? My guess is not. We should put a lot of pressure on the moderators, it would improve the quality of the debates.

  65. omg, susie, you’re very funny. if joe biden is one of the strongest debaters in the country then so is sarah palin cuz she just kicked his a$$.

  66. I think Biden was told to picture his opponent as McCain, and forget that it was Sarah Palin…he certainly debated like that.

  67. She made the audience laugh at least 2 times.

  68. she did a great job. Biden looked like an old fart.

  69. I’m in for the late supper – it sounds like some darn good comfort food. Can Rico mix a ’57 Chevy for me?

  70. Only a few (??) liked Sarah Palin out of the hundred but even they said I don’t know. I forgot to say they’re undecided leaning BO.

  71. Luntz’s indies are loving her!

  72. “Biden should debate McCain, for he’s better than the other three put together”

    Ah that is funny, only if you like long answers with no beginning, middle or end. Biden just likes the sound of his voice

  73. gqmartinez, agree – Gwen only did as well as she did because of the immense public pressure on her to be unbiased.

  74. lyn5 Thank you.
    It’s okay for a manly man to tear up (regardless of the reason), but not for a woman.

  75. Carol – I agree about Gwen – especially after all the hype about her book. She did beautifully.
    ———————————–
    Gary – My cat could blow Obama out of the water, but that’s beside the point which is that where Obama is concerned, debates don’t seem to count. Hillary beat the ampers off him. Sarah would too, but he would remain the King of the World anyway 😦

  76. beat the pampers off him, I meant.

  77. I just went over to the dark side. One poster actually said “A vice presidential candidate should not have to say ummmmm” Has this person ever even listened to the One?? Pls take the ‘k’ off of my keyboard so I can never do that again.

  78. Rachel Maddow said Sarah was mean (the line about the VP joke), and that she was “gimicky” with the accent and the aw shucks attitude. Pat B. basically told her she was crazy, that Sarah wiped the floor with Joe, that he watched the debate with a group of prominent Dem women who were amazed at her strong performance.

  79. As Gwen Ifill said, the proof will be in the pudding. But for my part, Sarah Palin hit it out of the park. Maybe not a grand slam, but she gave her team a chance, and may have even tied the game. They need to turn this Sarah Palin loose on the press corps tomorrow morning.

  80. I absolutely love this woman. She was wonderful.Just a breath of fresh air and I love how she is so plain spoken and doesn’t put on airs. No looking down her nose at us and she never once knocked the country and sunk in to a depressive tone. She is optimistic and has faith that things are going to improve.

    I felt like she really wants to make change happen and she actually knows how to go about making that change. Biden was too angry and negative.I could see that he was mad.Sarah kept her cool and was showing a great sense of humor,too.She is no Hillary for sure but she is a smart woman.

  81. I’m not the hugest Biden fan, but at least the man knows how to be polite and follow debate etiquette by not constantly interrupting his opponent. The sighs were another matter and he obviously missed the primer on how that didn’t help Gore.

  82. Carol, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 pm Said:
    OMG – MSNBC just said she was “polarizing”. Now, where have we heard that before!

    I thought “polarizing” belongs to Hillary and Hillary only.

    Obama is “unifying”?

  83. Pat Buchanan speaks for me. Oh my God, did I really say that?

  84. susan you are delusional…or are you a bosniak?

  85. Sadly, we’ve learned that for the “left” it’s not okay for a woman to run for President, or Vice President for that matter. Their motto seems to be: Big girls don’t cry or run for President. And they shut up and don’t speak unless we tell them to.

  86. time for susan to meet spammy

  87. I hate Obama’s guts, probably more than anybody else here on this board. I don’t think you understand the fact the expectations were low for Palin. She met them. That’s what is important.

  88. I would call it a draw. She’s perky and folksy and he’s rather boring but he had a bit of a better grasp on the issues. Neither hurt themselves but I don’t think there was any game changers.

    MountainSage

  89. lol, gary!

  90. Switched over the the Communist News Network. Even the extreme leftists are saying that Palin has re-energized the Republican ticket. When they talk about her inexperience v.s. Biden, all they do is highlight BO’s inexperience v.s. McCain. I love it when they do that.

  91. I just had to wipe my screen off because of gary.

  92. susannunes, on October 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 pm Said:
    And Biden should debate McCain, for he’s better than the other three put together.

    Are you trying some lines for your next stand up? That’s was a real knee slapper.

  93. Is there any instance of Biden doing well at a debate? I mean, i understand his rep as “world’s greatest debater” has no relationship to his actual performance, but did it ever? Back in the Neil Kinnock days, we he on a roll or something?

  94. She did well. Looked good. He looked worn.

  95. I don’t like Rachel Maddow any more than I like Obama. Why does Maddow hate women?

  96. Please, it is nap time for susan.

  97. All women are polarizing to Keith (he loves/hates them)

  98. leslie: Since MSNBC offered her big bucks to sit there and agree with everything KO says. Her soul was for sale and they bought.

  99. MountainSage~
    It was such a great live blog. Thanks.

  100. she: FRESH

    he: dusty

  101. She did really great. She really connected with people. The MSM will spin it for Obama but no one cares what the MSM says anymore.

    My sister is a conservative mom in Indiana, who doesn’t really pay that much attention to politics. Tonight I spoke to her on the phone and she said Obama sounds good but he is a puppet and its not clear who holds the strings. I was floored. I didn’t ask her about Palin.

  102. If the theme really is about change and that is what matters, Palin wins. She personifies change. Biden stood out as anything but. Obama comes out as NOT the agent of change, just business as usual. Has anyone seen if Ferraro has weighed in about the debate?

  103. Sen. Fred Thompsom just enumerated several untruths about statements Biden made about McCain’s support or opposition for this and that, especially about McCains ‘opposition’ to Clinton’s Bosnia incursion.

  104. Pat J~
    It must’ve been bought for real cheap

  105. he: dusty…lol

  106. Oh, no. cubs are losing big time

  107. Just caught a couple minutes from the CBS spundits as I passed through the room. And, drum roll here, Biden clearly won!!! So I walked into the kitchen (where hubby’s making baklava) and cursed a blue streak. Those lying bastards.

  108. bye-bye susan…..don’t let the door hit ya in the ass…

    Sarah rocked and like I have been saying, has been misunderestimated 🙂

  109. Andrea said Sarah used “clearly coached answers”. Is this coming from the woman who told us BO was shacked up at DisneyWorld for 4 1/2 days working on his “clearly coached answers”.

  110. I thought Sarah was great and more appealing to the average Joe (no pun intended)!!!! Though I don’t think it was a game changer, I hope it will shut the O-bots up who assumed she would fall flat on her face. She proved she can go toe to toe with a lifetime experienced Washington insider and hold her own….GO Sarah!!!!

  111. I could easily picture Sarah meeting with Dodd and Reid and pressuring them into answering why. ” Why are you inserting another billion dollars into the bailout? Why do we need to cover rum? What’s the story with all these extras? Well, get back in the room and trim this baby because it ain’t going nowhere.”

  112. I think the big story is that Biden said a LOT of things that just aren’t true…he has a habit of doing that

  113. MABlue….more like a face slapper….lol

  114. pls go vote at drudge. Palin is winning 75-25

  115. garychapelhill @ 11:02p – let’s play that up tomorrow

  116. The only reason Fox’s focus group loves Palin so much is because she’s a lot nicer on the eyes than Biden. Other than that the simple fact that she sides with McCain (and therefore Cheney) gives her a great big loss. She did well in the debate but she by no means won. All she succeeded in doing was prove that down home-sitting around the table-todd loving-soccer moms can debate.

  117. Both VP candidates are more interesting than the presidential candidates running.

    Remember how Lloyd Bentsen obliterated Dan Quayle? That didn’t happen tonight and it’s not going to happen. Palin had to prove she wasn”t Quayle and she did. As much as I dislike the guy, the person she reminded me the most of is Reagan.

    I think the polls are going to shift. And those “aging white women in battle ground states” are going to give Obama a lot more trouble than he expected.

    Game on.

  118. Some commenters on the live debate thread were asking about “Bosniak.”

    American Heritage Dictionary
    Bos·ni·ak (bŏz’nē-āk’) Pronunciation Key
    n.
    1. A member of a people descended from Slavs from Bosnia who converted to Islam during the period of Ottoman rule.
    2. An inhabitant of Bosnia without regard to religious identity, especially prior to the mid-19th century.

  119. Ok, for the record, Palin won. As Brad says, her delivery and style was outstanding but I also agree that she had an appropriate amount of substance for a governor and potential VP candidate. She also plugged John McCain very well and put herself in the proper place- she is McCain’s VP. She is not running for President.

  120. leslie….thanks for joining the live blog. it’s always a lot of fun!

  121. Who voted for Cheney’s energy bill? Hint:It wasn’t Hillary or McCain. Try B.O.

  122. Comment from another blog that sums it up pretty well. Palin’s strength and appeal is that “she is us.”

  123. go to cnn.com and vote. They have biden up by huge amount

  124. I wouldn’t bother with CNN.com. It’s a losing battle. Save it for election day.

  125. sxs01, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 pm Said:
    ——————–

    And become a Governor.

  126. sxs01: After listening to those lying creeps in the Senate and the House over the last week I am convinced that she is more genuine and could do at least as well, if not better, than any elected official sitting in that august body. If her experience is being measured against any of those goobers she comes out ahead. By a huge margin.

  127. garychapelhill@11:02:

    I loved when she said that the pundits would play back things that Joe said in the past and compare them with his answers tonight.

    Sarah did fine, and my Phillies won. It’s a good night.

  128. gary, no joke, the talking points beforehand were “Biden has a history of making gaffes, we expect it from him, he’s fine.” So now they can switch to, “Biden has a history of making ^%$# up, we expect it, it’s fine. We’ll call ahead and tell everyone to just disregard all his statements when he goes on an overseas trip…”

  129. Just incredible to watch and listen to the folks on CNN and MSNBC spin like crazy to say this doesn’t change anything. I hope that is not the narrative that will take hold.

  130. good one, destardi

  131. Obama is going to heavily on the Health care issue???how’s he gonna pay for it?

  132. destardi, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 pm Said:

    And become a Governor.

    And that’s where she should stay.

  133. She navigated a minefield. You’ve got to be smart and have your wits about you to accomplish what she did tonight. I loved her comments on personal financial responsibility and bipartisanship. She was warm, genuine, able to face the camera, Biden, Gwen. I think she found her strength in the principles she truly believes in–you can’t fake that. Dem mom for McCain/Palin.

  134. With the money we just voted away in the bailout, of course. Bo so loves imaginary money.

  135. Carol said, “Gwen did a beautiful and impartial job. I am very proud of her.”

    I thought she started out ok, but as Palin did better and better, I thought Ifil started to show her bias. It was subtle but if she thought Biden’s response was good she started a new subject question and didn’t offer Palin a followup. If Palin’s response was good she offered Biden a follow up. One of the questions, about whether the candidate had ever changed a position, was clearly directed at Biden to let him talk about his Judicial review work with Bork. Too bad Palin didn’t bring up Clarence Thomas but perhaps that was just as well. I do think it was subtle, but I did detect a bias.

  136. Palin is live on CNN

  137. If people actually vote the way they saw the debate, then it will have made a difference. and the MSNBC/CNN spin will just spin right through the door and off the map.

  138. CNN – she is speaking.

  139. sxs01,

    Your “easy on the eyes” comment was insulting to all of us. STFU and go away.

  140. How are any of them going to pay for anything? The Treasury is depleted. Nada. Nothing. Zero. This is where the straight talk comes into play. Folks, no Christmas this year. Nor perhaps the next. As for the one following, can’t be sure. So whatever you were expecting, forget it. Like impeachment, these too are off the table. Sorry.

  141. My take, copied straight from drunk-blogging comments at P&L:

    My take: I got into an argument the other day at the Confluence because I think Sarah Palin is kinda stupid. I mean, I think she has a lot of informal intelligences, but as far as education, I think she was passed a lot. I’m an English teacher and I know what that looks like.

    I am still of that opinion. What she was able to do, though, was employ those informal intelligences, using a lot of colloquialisms to cover for her lack of experience, in order to pretty much survive this debate. She was very good at using obvious hypocrisy against Biden and Obama, but she is not informed, not like the rest of these guys. She held her own, but she didn’t impress in any way other than charismatically speaking.

    This might be a problem, except the other side is running their least experienced guy…

  142. gary
    he told Matt Lauer he won’t implement anything now

  143. If she stays as Gov. I’m moving to Alaska. Seems elected officials actually likes voters there.

  144. I thought Sarah Palin ROCKED!

    Biden looked defensive, peevish, and at one point looked like he’d been sent to the principal’s office. Did you catch that big heavy sigh he let out right near the end? And the finish – I couldn’t decide if he was near tears because of the story he was telling or because he was so glad the spanking was over.

  145. Sarah Palin has one single element that is missing in DC these days.
    She is genuine.

    She doesn’t use “political speak”.
    She doesn’t use numbers to bedazzle.
    She doesn’t use emotionalism to create division.
    She doesn’t use anecdotes to pretend to be one of the “people”.
    She doesn’t use people to acquire power and position.
    She walks her talk.

    She is the only “outsider” in this race.

  146. cnn poll shows biden the winner, of course… but a poll asking whether palin did better or worse than expected….. 84% said better

  147. Has anyone else seen Obama’s new health care ad. He isn’t promising anything including his version of UHC. His ad says both extremes are wrong and Obama believes the answer is reducing health costs and covering pre-existing conditions. What a joke, he isn’t saying anything or agreeing to do anyting with health care.

  148. sxs01: Your wife just called. Needs you home right away. Nite!!

  149. It’s ok Janicen, not all mom’s can be easy on the eyes. Don’t take your jealousy out on me.

    If all the Americans who bitch about wanting a change in office vote McCain/Palin, the rest of us won’t take kindly to hearing you bitch about the lack of change when your votes get you where you want. Palin’s good, she’s just on the wrong side.

  150. Joe, say it ain’t so. I loved that line.

  151. That will NOT lead to UHC. Why does he suck as a Democrat?

  152. Palin live stream on cnn dot com

  153. Pat,

    That would make me a jackass. I apologize

  154. Palin is still working. She’s giving a speech in St. Louis at a debate party.

  155. She should have passed Joe a hankie when he began to cry. Sorry but if Joe cries one more time Ill send him a lifetime supply of kleenex. Sarah rocked right into the hearts of middle America.

  156. sxs01, I have mommy issues too. Palin scares me.

  157. Palin was great! I liked her but had doubts. Now I am going to vote republican for the first time in my life.
    I certainly don’t agree with her on many issues, but I don’t agree with BO either. I am voting for women this year.

    Biden’s snarky faces didn’t help him. Palin maintained composure and dignity throughout. Fire and nice!

  158. sxs01: I’m perfectly willing to take it. You don’t like it, then you’d better stop me. If that was so easy, you wouldn’t be here.

  159. can we see a obama-palin debate!!! pleaaaze!

    the caribou would shred the obambi into pieces

  160. I think Palin won the debate. She exceeded expectations. Biden did his job, but she did hers to and was solid and knowledgeable, while being optimistic, charming, and at times funny. I don’t agree with her on all the issues, but I’m left liking her more. Had she flubbed the debate, the election would be over. But now, the election has been reset (again). We will see the polls tighten with a bounce for McCain/Palin.

  161. anna belle, I disagree…in a debat like this you have to walk a fine line between being an egghead and connecting with the audience. I think she did that brilliantly. we might like a wonky debate, but that’s not what these things are for. they focus group everything they say and then tell her you have to say “tax and spend” at least 10 times for it to stick. she did it and did it with style.

  162. fox is even giving Biden points for his emotional moment.

  163. Well, we are now going to be subjected to 24/7 MSM propaganda that Palin did a crappy job.

    How many will buy in? Only time will tell.

  164. Lori, I agree. She reminds me of Reagan. She has a natural charisma and the ability to connect. I wasn’t a Reagan fan either, but I like Sarah. She was fantastic tonight.

  165. bernstein on cnn -spinning like crazy

  166. someone should teach me some manners

  167. Biden has told that schmaltzy story so many times he has it down to a science. Knows just when to squeeze out that tear. The first time it was moving. But after the 700 billionith time it lost its charm.

  168. Oh My Heck — she beat his ass so badly that they can’t even lie & pretend it was a “tie.”

  169. Annabelle – she is a Republican. they get to be dumb and get elected. Reagan was in the opening stages of dementia and was genuinely incoherent in his first debate with Mondale. He was better in his second debate, but was perceived as winning the debate because of a joke he made about not holding Mondale”s youth against him. That”s right – a scripted joke won him the debate.

    Almost all Democrats are substantially smarter than almost all Republicans. Especially in DC.

    That isn”t the question with Palin. The question is whether she can appeal to Republicans in sufficient numbers to turn them out on election day, and she doesn’t have to be smart to do that. She has to be adept at pushing Republican buttons.

    Palin had to prove she wasn’t Quayle – she did. She”s probably smarter than any of the Pubs who ran for the office, with the exception of Romney, and she is at least as bright as any Republican president we’ve had since Nixon.

  170. Anyone remember the Redford movie ‘The Candidate’. The debate reminds me of that . She did not know all the stuff that biden knew, but after this week how many people think that that stuff is useful. If I could have Hillary and her brain i would take it in a minute, but Sarah has heart. She is smart if not educated.

  171. Pat~
    I agree. I saw him give the same talk 4 years ago when he was in IL campaigning for Kerry. it was also then that he claimed it wa a drunk driver who hit the car his wife and daughter were in. (It wasn’t the truth then – or now.)
    But he is charming and smooth and he lost the debate tonight imho

  172. Does it matter what the MSM says about Palin? We can put them out of business. That’s why I’m here. Thanks to all of you. Have a good evening!

  173. FWIW, I’ve been reading Susan Nunes’ blog for quite some time now. She is definitely not a fan of Obama’s.

  174. Honora: She is educated. Just not an Ivy League sophisticate. Doesn’t mean she isn’t smart.

  175. angienc – now you are going to hell!

  176. I really couldn’t care less who Susan is a fan of.

  177. Rove says Biden – 10 mistakes that are flat wrong, 6 are debatable.

  178. she’s smart…she just hasn’t been bathed in the toxic waste that our national politicians use to EXCUSE their idiotic actions in the congress

    THAT is refreshing… very little double speak in Sarah… what a breath of fresh air

  179. Hmmm…. Palin must have done well. I can tell by the trolls. LOL.

  180. im in ur spam filter talkin to trolz….

  181. leslie, that guy’s family just spoke up a few weeks ago and asked Biden to stop maligning their relative’s memory out on the stump. They’d like an apology, too, because it’s been repeated by plenty of MSM outlets and never corrected.

  182. Go Sarah!
    I choose you to be on my team.

  183. Somehow Rove does not move me to soaring heights.

  184. Wasn’t Hillary a schemeing bitch when she choked up? I keep getting confused with all of the hypocrisy.

  185. Piper is doing the rope line at the GOP party!

  186. They’re playing the Rocky theme song for Sarah. 🙂

  187. Pat – trust me. You are wearing thin on Trig’s and Piper’s nerves.

  188. Seriously, it’ll be a cold day in july before that man’s family hears from the MSM and Biden. It would just “ruin” everything.

  189. susannunes is definitely not a fan of reality either. JMHO of course.

  190. OK, Fox is funny. Rove arguing lies with Colmes. Rove listed 10 lies by Biden..giving specific examples of votes etc. Colmes was discussing that Palin lied by saying that we are down to pre-surge levels in Iraq and that she lied because it’s off by 3,000? Did I hear him correctly?

  191. NH, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:13 pm Said:
    Has anyone else seen Obama’s new health care ad. He isn’t promising anything including his version of UHC. His ad says both extremes are wrong and Obama believes the answer is reducing health costs and covering pre-existing conditions. What a joke, he isn’t saying anything or agreeing to do anything with health care.

    All I think of when I see Barry go on about health care is Kerry saying ” UHC is a non starter” ….and you’ll notice, Obama just says health care now…the word universal is gone. Of course that’s not much of a disappearing act since his plan never was universal anyway…but you are right about the topic of health care has now entered the Obama fog la la land of saying nothing .

  192. Colmes is an intolerable idiot. Anyone who can listen to his blather gets a free drink on me.

  193. Biden is supposed to be the BEST debater in the Senate? Boy, you sure couldn’t tell that from his performance tonight. 🙂

  194. Karl Rove is a lying bag of horse manure. He may be a political “genius” but he is a sorry human being. He outed a CIA operative for political gain. You just don’t do that.

  195. Willow is having fun on the rope line with her mother.

  196. “Almost all Democrats are substantially smarter than almost all Republicans. Especially in DC.”

    Bwaaaahhahahhahaaaahhhaaaahahahahhhaaa!!!

  197. Karl Rove loves Sarah Palin—he was just happier than a flaming Turdblossom.

  198. Hey guys. I am so happy. Thank you for keeping my spirits up.
    Sarah was FANTASTIC. I am just estatic. We really neeed this.

    I am watching Fox. Tried to watch MSNBC and CNN could not take it. KO is disgusting. Funny that I have found a media friend in FOX. I must admit that I think they report news better, so it is a little to the right but they give a straighter story. That blond on in the morning kicks butt and Greta is great. The women on there are smart and no BS. I like it.

    In a nutshell Sarah was fantastic. Did anyone see Biden all over her after the debate? They looked like friends.

  199. Carol, yes, she looks like she’s enjoying it a lot.

  200. NH ~ that’s a worthless offer. It would take much more than “a drink” to tempt any sane person to watch Colmes

  201. Lori, I agree, she did better than expected and I agree, she changed a lot of minds tonight. My point has always been: Let’s not pretend she’s anything but what she is. She’s genuine, she’s talented, she’s go an incredible propensity for on the job learning, but she’s not perfect, and she’s not as smart as some commenters would have us believe. I realize politics is largely team sports these days, but that doesn’t mean I stop wincing when I see that dynamic play out, even in unexpected corners. I suppose I shouldn’t bitch though. I want people to vote for McCain/Palin for a variety of reasons.

  202. who said they would say it was because her trainers were so good? that’s what Debbie WS just said…

  203. alan colmes said she was likeable enough

  204. God – how could anyone have ever voted for these lying Democrats.

    They make me sick. Hillary will have to change party’s.

  205. EWWWW Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

  206. Carol, What network are you watching?

  207. I bet an awful lot of news stories tomorrow will say “killed by a drunk driver,” too.

  208. Hillary is not changing parties. Not unless they start the ceremonial killing of babies.

  209. About half-way through I swear I was waiting for Biden’s “I have a bracelet too” moment.

  210. Sarah could be the tipping point to this whole mess. If she plays as well in middle America as she did with us, the race, though tight, may just end Backtrack’s trip to the Oval Office. McCain cannot get there on his own. She could be the propeller.

  211. Frankly I have to admit that Gov. Palin did far better than what I expected. Sen. Biden was his usual self, fairly good but I would certainly like to see some of his claims concerning McCain run against FactCheck.

    I cannot help but think that middle class Americans would fall in love with Gov. Palin. She spoke directly to them and reflects knowing how they feel.

    Wonder if the MSM will have anything to say about Sen. Biden choking up a little. Seems they went on for days and days when Hillary seemed to momentarily tear up in NH.

    All in all, I do not think Sen. Biden did anything to hurt Sen. Obama’s campaign and I think Gov. Palin added a much needed spark back to Sen. McCain’s campaign.

  212. NH, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:28 pm Said:
    Colmes is an intolerable idiot. Anyone who can listen to his blather gets a free drink on me.

    OK – i’m duct taped to the chair… I’ll have a glass of Pinot Noir… and a straw

  213. I am sure the Obamatons were expecting to write Palin’s political epitaph tonight. Looks like she has a political future.

  214. Joe Biden probably is the best debater in congress. Scary isn’t it!

  215. in my opinion people are confusing academic knowledge of the issues which does not have practical consequences (Biden’s way) and the pragmatic realism of a gov who has to make things work in real life (Palin)

    I prefer the pragmatic way. if the election was based on a test with policy questions that Biden and Palin had to answer, Biden might win but fortunately thats not the case. knowing stuff just for knowing stuff is irrelevant,thats why we have books to read when we need to learn stuff for practical reasons.

  216. I feel horrid for saying it but I expected Sarah to bring up her special needs son after Biden brought up his lost wife and daughter.

  217. taw46,

    I’m stunned to learn that Pat Buchanan watched the debate with a bunch of prominent Democratic women. I’m dying to know who they are!

  218. kitchen, here you go one Pinot Noir and a straw. Enjoy.

  219. I can’t see how JOE can win this debate. He made to many statements, that were totally wrong. But, the Media will give it to JOE.

  220. She is home free. She can draw 60k per speech.

    Hannity is proving Debbie an idiot.

  221. Here’s another Fox funny… Colmes said Palin didn’t win… Biden was off his game.

  222. I love those kids, Willow and Piper and how they take such wonderful care of little Tryg.

  223. Dick Morris says she’s a superstar. Heh.

  224. Wow, Sarah did extremely well. At a technical, academic comparison I’d say Joe did better, which is to be expected. But on a personal level, I think Sarah did a lot better. I think she’ll win back those reluctant republicans that have been depressed and less sure of their vote, and I think she’ll win back some non republicans that were walking away after the recent interviews.

    I think she mostly did much better because she went back to being herself. I think the over prepping and coaching from the McCain handlers has not served her well. How could it, that’s the worst campaign I’ve ever seen in my life. I think she’s back to how she was when she first came on the stage.

    The funniest (and a bit sad) moment for me was when they both squirmed out of talking about gay marriage. They have the same views it appears on legal rights for gay couples, but both are petrified of same sex marriage. Pathetic. But funny that they both were uncomfortable with the topic.

  225. Biden lied–a lot actually. More than Sarah did it seems. That being the case, if the MSM would pursue it, it would hurt Obie’s campaign. They won’t so it won’t but if they did, it would be a game changer.

  226. Declared a superstar by Morris.

  227. Really Dick Morris!!!!
    I can’t believe I;’m actually listening to FOX.
    Truly up is down.

  228. Anna Belle: I objected when you called Palin “stupid” the other day, and I will do so again. You are entitled to your opinion, and if you want to argue that she is uninformed, so be it. For a Governor who only entered this race 5 weeks ago, I beg to differ. But I do take serious offense to calling any woman “stupid” who has managed successfully a state with a $10 billion budget and 24,000 employees. It’s disrespectful to Sarah and all women. We’ve had more than enough of that.

  229. Sarah Palin was phenomenal! Game on…October surprise…wag the dog…look out…………Grin.

  230. NH, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 pm Said:
    kitchen, here you go one Pinot Noir and a straw. Enjoy.

    asdllre ;lakslaajj;kl lkad

    sorry, had to take off the tape to say Thanks!

  231. What must be scary to Democrats is that Sarah will only get better as she gets more familiar with the wonky sort of policy details; she’ll always be terrific about style, connecting with voters, that sort of thing.

  232. NH: Same here only forget the straw, I’ll take a hose please.

  233. Regency, your response is because of Barack “I have a bracelet too!” Obama’s propensity for that particular manuever….

    don’t worry – it’ll pass one day…

    😉

  234. Paul Begala, and I hate to do it, but he is now on my official list for pond scum chewer, he had the unmitigated gall (probably from his pond duty) to say, “Palin was clearly running for 2012.”

  235. I agree. she has the ability to connect that every politician would give their soul for.

  236. hello all I want to thank NWW and PUMA United Radio for allowing me to join them tonight and of course RD-I am so embarrassed at times that I get to chat with such brilliant minds!

    I can tell you that when I mention I know RD and Murphy My O-bot friends turn white…then shake their heads …see I am so a lost soul!

  237. On what channel are you watching Palin? or site?

  238. Piper sure loves the spotlight. You can tell she is her Mom’s favorite.

  239. NH — I saw that bs ad from Obama on Health Care — he is not a Dem — people who keep defending him don’t know what being a Democrat means.

    I think Biden didn’t want to be VP — he was forced into somehow — no enthusiasm at all — he drew the short straw.

    FOX voters have Palin winning by 86%

  240. Biden lost it because he was listening to his inner obama

  241. I’d give the win to Palin on style and to Biden on substance.
    They both did well, IMO.
    Biden did lose his first wife and baby daughter; I think that his emotional moment was very touching.

  242. Anna Belle, do you think the average politician is particularly smart, though?

    No one is saying that she’s the world’s greatest genius, we just wonder why she’s hands down the dumbest politician who ever lived. I don’t see any evidence that she’s less intelligent than Obama or Reid or McConnell or Romney. And none of tehm are ever called stupid. It’s sort of like why it’s okay for HRC to get all the blame for teh war when everyone else who voted for the authorization gets a free pass. I don’t get that either.

  243. A star is born. When she’s on, she’s on.

  244. Dick-head Morris just had to insult Hillary. He can’t open his mouth without finding a way to slam the Clintons. “There’s another woman who is going to be #1 in this country–and she got there with no help from her husband.” FU Dick.

  245. New talking point for the Obots — all Palin proved is that she can memorize talking points really really well.

    Dick Morris just chewed Colmes out.

  246. Prolix: She was running for McCain 2008. What happens in 2012 is up to Hillary.

  247. fif — no one has ever been named more appropriately then DICK Morris.

  248. I have a chocolat Port and a Rasberry Port..but I am saving them for November 5th….darn I really feel like celebrating

  249. Palin’s performance tonight proved what editing can do (i.e., those other interviews).

  250. angienc-hey that makes her as good as any Obot

  251. I love Palin – I think she did great and more than held her own. And… after tonights debate, I think the Obama/Biden ticket should be the other way around. Biden has a better pulse on America and doesn’t spew out policy like a Democratic puppet.

  252. fuzzy — LMAO — yep, as good as any Obot!

  253. I enjoyed watching the debate with all of you. My friends support Obama, so as I watched the debate alone I loved checking the comments here and seeing similar reactions to mine. For example, when Biden mentioned Bork I thought of Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill. It was great to see that people here have the same memories. Thanks, everyone.

  254. Biden did the “he voted against…” trick. Politicians do this a lot when Senators vote against one bill because their party has a better one on the same issue.

    “He voted against school lunches for starving orphans of recently deceased veterans!”

    That sort of thing.

  255. Funny – I see cnn.com having a huge party for Palin. I don’t see one for Biden.

    BO is smoking again of that I am sure.

  256. I’d rather watch the Cubs lose than watch dick morris

  257. absolutely….that ticke is messed up. he barely deserves to be on the bottome. I want to see palin debate obama…

  258. Piper sure loves the spotlight. You can tell she is her Mom’s favorite.

    Isn’t she so adorable? She always waves to the crowd and looks for the camera. She’s another natural. Piper for President 2050!

  259. fif, like care what you think. Cheerlead all you want. I’m interested in the truth.

  260. The M$M never ceases to disgust me. First they spent the last week trashing Palin, denigrating her intelligence and declaring her the loser of the debate even before it happened. To hear them tell it, Biden vs. Palin would be like watching the Celtics play a high school team. The beating would be so bad that Palin would be forced to bow out and return to Alaska to take care of her babies in abject disgrace. The media was so saturated with WWTSBQ? stories that one had to wonder when the axe would fall.

    Now that the debate is over and Palin did well, it is suddenly just an unimportant footnote. Voters simply don’t care about the VP candidates, we’re assured. Funny how that worked out.

  261. SOD — me too — Obama is the antithesis of Hillary on UHC — people who pretend that his positions are the same as hers just wanted to justify why they couldn’t vote for “that woman.” Disguised sexism — just like BTD’s “more electable” argument.

  262. I have a different view. I think Sarah was playing Trojan Horse, and playing dumb

  263. Sen Biden and Gov Palin had relatively comparable performances tonight. both showed they had a reasonable knowledge of the subjects on which they spoke. took him 37 years in washington to get that, took her 5 weeks. intelligence and smarts??

  264. The Cubs are losing – again in the post-season. I don’t know why I’m surprised other than they had such a great regular season.

    So RD, thanks for the late supper, drinks and excellent conversation but I need to go to bed now and dream those happy dreams – where the Cubs may actually go all the way and my elected officials actually do the will of the people who put them in office instead of what their misguided “leaders” tell them to do.

    Happy Trails to everyone!

  265. Piper after Chelsea.

  266. Yeah the people of america got to see that the Lady has brains-

    Katie Couric has some ‘splaining to do? because what we saw on her show was not the same lady we saw tonight….

    Katie you done went and got caught editing a person to make them look stupid

  267. I have a different view. I think Sarah was playing Trojan Horse, and playing dumb during the interviews with Couric and Gibson.

  268. AAAGirl — I can believe that — the GOP is that smart.

  269. i just want a good birthday present for November 4

  270. angienc,

    WOW, Palin did fantastic and I think she has proven the MSM wrong with their gotchas and spin to characterize Palin as Quayle.

    Hopefully FOX will hammer home the instances when Bidan lied. Particularily, if it can be shown that he knowingly lied.

  271. http://www.cnn.com

    Piper has to have an entire troop of SS

  272. Palin ran ram shod over the moderator and threw the format and questions to the wind.

    At one point I thought I heard her say “I’m not going to answer your question , I’m going to finish reciting the sound byte I memorized that had nothing to do with your previous question either.”

    It really wasn’t a debate it was all about Palin. While she didn’t prove to be the disaster the interviews with follow up questions suggested. She most certainly didnt change anyone’s opinion of her – pro or con.

    If McCain does win and pass on we will all be reaching for mute button when she speaks to the nation.

  273. Repubs are giddy and Dems are angry. Begala is ranting again (the panel is looking a little uncomfortable with him).

  274. Dakini: I turn 19 Nov. 15, can my good present be Bill in a McCain for President Baseball hat and a Hill Yeah 2012 t-shirt?

  275. Gwen is a great reporter and I had confidence that she would put aside any bias (if she harbors) and be even-handed. I’m happy that she did not disappoint me.

    Sarah was great and Biden also did very well. My disapproval is Obama, not Biden. I would vote for Biden instead of McCain if Biden was on top of the ticket.

  276. Hannity just bet Wasserman $10,000 that BO said that our troops in Afghanistan killed civilians and burned villages.

  277. all Afro American Gal-if that was true then she is more brilliant than any other candidate on either ticket…and Obambi better watch out~!

    She is gunning for him!

    Leslie I am Cubbies fan-I want them to win!

  278. phlamingophred
    There’s always next year….Poor steve goodman He’s probably glad he didn'[t live to see tonight.

  279. I would not be okay voting for Biden. Americans did not want him. I have a serious problem with even the idea of him being on the ticket, much less on top.

  280. I don’t know why everyone thinks Biden is so smart. I’ve always found him to be rather an idiot. He knows a lot of stuff, but he’s not right about a lot of stuff. Still, I don’t think McCain/Palin are offering anything new to the middle class, which is in desperate times. I do think she’ll likely be the 2012 candidate if Obama wins and I think she’ll run much more populist than she has with McCain.

  281. I can hardly wait for the inauguration.

  282. WMCB: I’m 98% positive he did say that. I have a memory of that!

  283. I be rachell Maddow is Post Debate now! she is probably comming out of her flannel shirt and suspenders!

  284. here’s AP, Reuters, AFP on the debate. i chose these because their stories get picked up worldwide. all their coverage is shocking, attacks on palin that have nothing to do with the debate; yet no mentions of any biden gaffes pre-debate, etc:

    AP: Palin: Obama would fly ‘flag of surrender’ in Iraq
    McCain took a huge gamble in choosing Palin, whose addition to the ticket initially mobilized the party’s conservative base around his candidacy. In the intervening weeks, however, her inexperience and provincial demeanor have become fodder for late-night television comedians.
    Also, in the month since she stepped onto the national stage as the first female Republican vice presidential nominee, the 44-year-old Palin has proved uneven in solo news interviews, showing a lack of experience and breadth of knowledge normally expected in a candidate who would take over in the White House should the 72-year-old McCain win the election, then become incapacitated.
    An Associated Press-Gfk poll released Wednesday found that just 25 percent of likely voters believe Palin has the right experience to be president. That is down from 41 percent just after the Republican convention, when the Alaska governor made her well-received national political debut…
    (LIE)Palin refused to blame global warming on human activity, but conceded the Earth’s climate was changing..
    Palin has seemed poorly informed in the few interviews she has granted. In a CBS television News interview aired Wednesday she appeared unable to cite a U.S. Supreme Court decision with which she disagreed while saying many decisions had divided Americans. She likewise could not name magazines and newspapers that she reads.
    She also has been widely lampooned for citing Alaska’s proximity to Russia as an example of her foreign policy expertise. Palin has never visited Russia, and until last year she had never traveled outside North America…
    Polls show support shifting rapidly to Obama since the first presidential debate on Sept. 26 in Mississippi..
    http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/10/03/america/NA-POL-US-Elections.php

    note AP in the following piece correctly says palin declined to attribute the cause of climate change to man-made activities ‘ALONE’.

    AP: Palin stands her ground in VP debate with Biden
    After five weeks as McCain’s ticket-mate, her poll ratings had begun dropping and even some conservatives have questioned her readiness for high public office.
    Her solo campaign events are few, and she has drawn ridicule for some of her answers in the few interviews she has granted – including her claim that Alaska’s proximity to Russia gives her an insight into foreign policy.
    After intense preparation – including two days at McCain’s home in Sedona, Ariz., there was only one obvious stumble, when she twice referred to the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan as “Gen. McClellan.” His name is David McKiernan.
    Biden’s burden was not nearly as fundamental. Although he has long had a reputation for long-windedness, he is a veteran of more than 35 years in the Senate, with a strong knowledge of foreign policy as well as domestic issues…
    On the environment, Palin declined to attribute the cause of climate change to man-made activities alone…
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VICE_PRESIDENTIAL_DEBATE?SITE=CAANG&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

    Reuters: Biden and Palin clash on economy and Iraq
    But her lack of national experience and her hesitant performance in rare media interviews have raised doubts about her readiness and prompted criticism even from some prominent conservatives.
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKTRE4920SC20081003

    Biden charges McCain “out of touch” on economy
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKTRE4920H620081003

    Biden, Palin clash on finance crisis in VP debate
    Palin chose not to parry a Biden argument that McCain had argued against greater regulation on Wall Street, and contributed to the debt-laden crisis threatening the US economy.
    Instead, she argued that Obama had voted in the Senate to raise taxes 94 times, a claim that has been questioned by newspaper reports and independent fact check operations…
    She has faced widespread ridicule for some of her answers, including citing Alaska’s proximity to Canada and Russia as valid foreign policy experience.
    Biden has 35 years experience in the Senate, and while he is known for often being too verbose, he has plenty of high-profile debates under his belt…
    http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jAGjDBm4Prm1JXQwmIt_UcId2HxQ

    and the following is a top story on corpmedia websites in australia, and gives links to numerous anti-palin videos, jokes, etc:

    Australia Sydney Morning Herald: Sarah Palin makes it big online
    by Glenda Kwek
    While she may not be a big hit with voters, Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin has made a big splash on the net, becoming the butt of many online parodies and the star of umpteen viral videos.
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/satirists-on-the-hunt-for-fresh-palin-meat/2008/10/02/1222651251064.html

    who is kwek? “Glenda Kwek is a freelance journalist in the publishing industry. She recently completed a Master of International Law at the University of Sydney.”

    like she would know anything!

    shame on the corpmedia.

  285. fuzzybeargville
    I want them to win, too.
    It sucks to see them go down again this year. especially after the season they had

  286. Joe Biden probably is the best debater in congress. Scary isn’t it!

    Jangles: aren’t you forgetting someone?

    Hillary is the best debater I’ve ever seen.

  287. Her delivery was sharp. Her knowledge of the issues, adequate in some areas. She knows how to play to a crowd and she knows where her strengths lie. This is a lady who knows herself. How many of those lifetime pols can say the same? And really, do any of us know Obama? And does he know himself? Those issues point to character. She know who she is, where she came from, how she got there, and where she is going.

    You cannot expect too many people to surpass Hillary Clinton for knowledge and experience, but this lady is genuine. I have no qualms of her taking the oath.

  288. Piper Palin—say that three times fast.

  289. Xeno, last week it was, it all comes down to the VP debate. This is it. this will decide everything, remember? lol

  290. fuzzy

    we should spread the couric editing

  291. I think alot of people wanted to move to mccain, but were nervous about palin. I think tonight she did what she had to do, and I think alot of the people that were leaning mccain before the msm started portraying her as the addleminded twin Tina Fey keeps in the attic will start coming back now

  292. Biden played the “sexism card” – Sarah was so mean to him.

  293. Cubbies go down? say it ain’t so…

  294. Maddow was sneering earlier that all of Palin’s “gee whiz” folksiness was contrived.

    No, Rachel, you just need to get out more. This is how real people in the real world actually talk.

  295. I like it, when, Sarah, said O’biden.

  296. Well said, PJ! @ 11:48 pm.

  297. well that is a big change from the R*CE card carol!

  298. “If McCain does win and pass on we will all be reaching for mute button when she speaks to the nation.”

    I do that now with BO. Frankly, I think she’d make a better President than McCain.

  299. I thought it was the Palin show. She had me laughing out loud. Imho she wiped the floor with him. And as much as I hesitate to say this, after New Hampshire, his choke up over his children’s accident, just didn’t seem real. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that, but it seemed a little contrived.

    I thought she hit all the spots. I thought she could have done more, and missed some chances, but to hit all of them would have been perfect and nobody is that. So,though we will continue to disagree on some issues, we will agree with others, and I will support her and her running mate, McCain.

    Just kidding, she isn’t running for Pres, and I don’t think she is that full of herself to think she should.. But, it is about time to have a women in one of those top slots, and I am a lot less scared with McCain than I am with BO. As for gay marriage, she honestly says she doesn’t beleive in it. I think that Biden probably has no personal problem with gay marriage. HIs opposition is political, and I would love to hear one of them say that for a change. My major reason to support gay marriage is that it is insulting to let brain dead pond scum marry their cousins in some states, but feel threatened if Henry and Joe want to tie the knot. I don’t think it makes much difference for either gays or straights. It certainly doesn’t keep couples of either ilk together. The important part has always been the benefits, and Alaska already has that.

    I was also happy to hear Palin hit the rope line clean coal comment. Somebody in that campaign is paying attention. It also shows that Palin knows where and when to stick the knife in. Good for her. Good for us.

  300. Well, Good night ……all.

  301. Rachell is so Post-Real Americans see she likes the Ivroy Tower Latte Drinking Arugulla type now!

  302. fuzzy~
    cubs are down7-1 in the 7th. It is just too sad.

  303. well, it’s been a long day for me, and I have to teach an 8 am class … take care e1

  304. dakinikat, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:43 pm Said:

    i just want a good birthday present for November 4
    __________________________________________

    My birthday is January 20th, 2009! You have me beat with November 4th though!

    By January 20th, if whatshisname wins, I’ll already have banished TV news from my house. I’ll only be able to read the news online…hopefully with no pictures of youknowwho.

  305. “Hannity just bet Wasserman $10,000 that BO said that our troops in Afghanistan killed civilians and burned villages.”

    Well, that would make one hell of an ad.

  306. WMBC did you here the shw tonight? I wondered how I sounded?

  307. Tonight, Gov. Palin put to rest any qualms anyone may have had about her ability or readiness to lead. She proved that she can do anything she sets her mind to. I trust her. How many politicians can one say that about?

  308. Okay. I can breathe now.

    NICE JOB, SARAH!!!!! Whooo-hooo!!!!!

    Great job staying focused.
    Great job mentioning and supporting McCain
    Great job slamming Obama and Biden – with a sweet smile.
    Great job mentioning your actual leadership experience.
    Great job demonstrating that you have brains, but haven’t had your personality excised.
    Great job being strong, intelligent, personable, AND pretty and feminine.
    Great job standing there in those three-inch heels.
    Great job not grimacing, wincing or reacting to Biden’s comments.

    I am so happy!

  309. I agree with you All Afro American Gal. Palin is very clever. And I think she is far more charismatic than Obama. He doesn’t have a sense of humor, and that is a very bad thing in a politician.

  310. I agree about the contrived choking up. It didn’t ring true for me – and I like Joe Biden, even though he’s selling his soul for the VP spot.

  311. Hey WMCB – here’s the raiding villages context, Hannity should lose the bucks but it will probably be a draw…

    “Except Obama’s comments from last August weren’t directed at troops in the field, but rather at the shortage of troops available for combat in Afghanistan. At the New Hampshire event in question, the not-yet frontrunner said: “Now you have narco drug lords who are helping to finance the Taliban, so we’ve got to get the job done there [in Afghanistan], and that requires us to have enough troops that we are not just air raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.”

  312. Brittany made me re-assess my support for hetrosexual marriage!

    And lindsay and her girlfriend make such a cute couple

  313. Way to admit you were wrong since Biden got his ass kicked, Johnboy. That’s what you call grace.

  314. Yes, goodnight everyone. It was a pleasure watching the debate and discussing it with all of you. Til next time.

  315. fuzzy,

    You were great. You have a wonderful radio voice and a great sense of humor. Of course we already knew that.

  316. Joe Biden says he will never change, that he has been the same for thirty years and

    will

    Never

    CHANGE

    I wonder how barack feels about that?

  317. taggles,

    LOL! I never thought of that.

  318. hey SOD!!!!!

  319. Well, Maddow has obviously never been to Minnesota. Does Rachel realize that people out there in real world actually DO talk like that? It’s not just actresses in Fargo, ya’ know.

  320. I am a Cubbies fan too. I want them to win but you know there is always next year.

    I have to say something that made me ecstatic, was when FOX had a black woman in the audience and she praised Palin. Can I say that I am so sick of my race being in the tank for Obama.Can I say that I am sick of everyone assuming that I am voting for Obama! ARGH.

    But Sarah was great, sorry i am beaming. Piper is adorable by the way.

  321. “Joe Biden says he will never change, that he has been the same for thirty years and

    will

    Never

    CHANGE

    I wonder how barack feels about that?”

    those are JUST WORDS.
    🙂

  322. Sarah banished any comparison to a Tina Fey impersonation tonight. If this woman can come into this race only 5 weeks ago and manage to soak up information as she has we can rest assured.

    And for any of those Obats lurking out there ready to pounce with more of your bullshit and putdowns, don”t bother wasting your fingertip movements. I like her. I will vote the ticket. She is no worse than what the hell we currently have mismanaging our affairs and high fiving one another when they slit out throats.

    Think of it this way: you offered me a rotten apple and I prefer the Alaska peach. Nuf said.

  323. fif, 2050 is not a presidential election year. Piper will be eligible in 2048, though.

    Re the Cubs, just remember how the Red Sox broke their curse down 3-0 against the Yankees in ’04.

    Everyone knows Dick Morris is a slimebag–that’s part of his charm. His political instincts made him one of Bill Clinton’s favorites. He obviously had a falling out with Hillary somewhere along the line.

  324. state-Obama (as in Michelle) is not happy about Bidens performance tonight I hear her nashing her teeth and making the as sugar puts it her “scoop mouth” face!

    I think if Biden could he would sell the VP slot on Ebay

  325. Can you believe they’re still denying that he said he would meet our “enemies” without preconditions? McCain should make an ad of him saying that to settle it once and for all. Such liars.

  326. Dave,
    Charm? to say Dick Morris and charm in the same sentence is absurd.

    And the Cubs are not the Red Sox. (but I’m not wanting to be argumentative, honest)

  327. Sarah was wonderful tonight!!! I am so excited. And I am hopeful.
    Sarah just put the energy back into the campaign. McCain/palin can win this!

    Hillary 2012!

  328. Know how I know Palin won? The best Jeralyn can come up with is “no major gaffes but not a game changer” (like the VP debate ever is) and to point out Biden’s two “best” moments — “John McCain is no maverick” and “single fatherhood” LMAO.

  329. Thanks Dave 🙂 I was just estimating.

  330. Just braved TL & cruised Corrente and here’s the report:

    TL: Palin is a declasse, ignorant, bitch of a hillbilly, but dangerous. Ha – Biden wiped the floor with her! Palin can hardly speak English, Biden is a debating marvel. But Palin is downright dangerous, that bitch.

    Corrente: Palin has earned our begrudging admiration here, not nearly as dumb as they were making her out to be, but she’s maybe kind of, well, dangerous, you think? Biden can speak English, not an awful debater, but doesn’t he look kind, well, old and grey and tired around the edges? Hard to take your eyes off Palin even if she’s, well, kind of dangerous maybe?

  331. She was INVIGORATING!!

    I hope the McCain team responds to the next wave of “take-down Sarah” better than they did last time….let her out there and let her talk! And go after the smears…

  332. Sarah made Joe cry.

  333. Palin’s brother & sister on FOX. Big smiles. So proud.

  334. Sarah’s siblings are exactly like her–sweet, genuine, open!

  335. TL: Palin is a declasse, ignorant, bitch of a hillbilly, but dangerous. Ha – Biden wiped the floor with her! Palin can hardly speak English, Biden is a debating marvel. But Palin is downright dangerous, that bitch.

    Is this a direct quote?

  336. hey taggles and bostonboomer great show hugh!

    I am so glad to have something good happen it is the turn around week of the McCain Camp

    I should not be happy abt it but I so want Obama to go down!

    Hillary would so have this thing wrapped up by now!

  337. I remember when Michelle said we will never be the same if Barack become president.

    I’ll never be the same just for him running for president.

  338. Kat5
    LOL !

  339. No Dave,, True I love the Red Sox too.

    I would love to see a Cubs v. Red Sox series.

  340. If nothing else, after 35 years Joe recognizes political talent . If Palin didn’t have a boat load, he would not have done the end of debate schmoozing . He did it because she will be around for some time.

  341. Pat

    i remember a few months/weeks ago when you paced depressed for 2 days….. i’m happy u r so decisive in voting for this ticket. i remember after may 31st when everyone wanted to vote against the dems regardless of the candidate (vp).

    after sarah was nominated many PUMA’s changed their decision. maybe some nostalgia after hillary. i totally understand.

    but this is serious, and also i enjoy the fact that she was the nominee and she is becoming better any day

    as i said

    she:FRESH

    he: dusty

  342. fuzzy, I did not hear the show tonight, but I’m sure you were great!

  343. Obama is such a nothing. It irritates me to see anyone talk him up like he is really ready to do something. The Senate is just the place for him to hang his coat. He is just dying to hear himself addressed as “Mr. President”. After that he can go shoot baskets for the next 4 years. What a “star”!

  344. Hillary Clinton tears up: manipulative bitch, who does she think she’s kidding with those f*cking crocodile tears.

    Joe Biden tears up: oh my, that level of sincerity is just so touching.

  345. If you’re using Harvard debate club measures, Biden won.

  346. OMG –
    the crowd shots at Wrigley Field are just heart wrenching. Fans are just in a state of despair.
    I can’t imagine what it will be lke at work tomorrow.

  347. I want my Hillary back and if I get hr I promise to share her -Big Dawg said I could….

    I still think that if Biden Could get away wit it he would sell his VP slot on this ticket on Ebay! min bid $ .01.

  348. I’m so relieved, I almost started crying. Maybe I need that drink after all. Anyone have any sangria?

    I haven’t felt this relieved since Hillary won New Hampshire. No, Palin is no Hillary, but she did prove, on the hardest, toughest, most glaring stage that she can hold her own.

    I’m on a listserv with the bunch of Obots – may have to unsubscribe, actually – and they’re all tearing their throats out about how cute and feminine she is, and saying she should stop. Stop how? Cut her hair and gain fifty pounds? Why is it okay to Obama to be handsome and a good orator (which is, even though I can’t stand him), but not okay for Palin to be pretty, feminine, cute and sexy AND to know policy and be smart? I don’t get it.

    Palin’s smarts are all “blue collar.” She doesn’t come across as an educated elite, but she knows her stuff. She reminds me of one of the most well-read men I know – didn’t finish high school, never went to college – but know more about current events and history than anyone I ever met.

  349. So apparently, palin is dangerous? LOL Thank god they came up with something new. It’s still new even though they’ve been using it for weeks, that’s the power of change.

  350. lol Angienc 😉

    I think we’ve got the Obamabots on the run now!!

    No Retreat!

    Stay the Course!

    Locked-And-Loaded for Country First!!

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  351. Serena,

    that’s the one thing she missed.

  352. audacity: What changed my mind, and believe me I was never, ever voting for Obama, was the fraud. My intent, because of my state’s penchant to vote blue, was to probably leave the top of the ticket vacant. But it occurred to me that someone could easily tamper with it so I decided that I had no other choice.

    My decision was a tough one until last week. When I saw and heard my own Dem reps fighting for this bill and the lack of oversight attendant, I came to realize that each party is wholly responsible to some degree for this present mess. Nancy, Barney, Dodd, make me sick.

    And after tonight I am truly comfortable with Palin. I may disagree with most of what she and McCain stand for, but the DNC must pay the price for this Obama sham. But I can sleep a little better now.

  353. GCH — not to worry === haven’t you seen his new ad?

  354. SARAH PALIN was outstanding, warm, genuine ,and absolutely wiped the floor with old ” say it aint so, Joe”

    Cnn and Msnbc had the spin words … but they were the ones who sounded rehearsed ( with the emphasis on the hearse ) and the expressions on their faces was grim; and the mood on their shows was funereal

    . awww too bad for them

  355. today, I had a discussion with someone who could not believe that Obama hadn’t been vetted like sarah.
    She was actually laughing that I might think Katie Couric, et al. hadn’t asked him similar questions. When I gave her specific examples of issues that he hadn’t been questioned about (Ayers, Rezko) she said that “every politician” has known people who are of questionable character. Then she ranted onabout Sarah Palin and her lack of experience, etc.

    Am I living in another dimension, or is she?

  356. The msn never critiqued obama for his inexperince like they are dissing Sarah for. But she showed em.

    the obots are going viral now–worse that before.

  357. It was fun.

    Nite, Nite. I can really sleep good tonight.

  358. I am relieved. I just wanted her to do well to stick it to the media and to do women proud. She did a great job. Imagine that she has only been in this campaign for 5 weeks and has had to withstand such intense scrutiny and hostility. This will help to put certain criticisms to rest. (Don’t worry, they’ll come up with new ones!) The biggest thing is that she did not make any major mistakes that they can beat her over the head with for days. It would have really hurt the campaign after the last 2 weeks. We’ll see what tomorrow brings…

    Nite all. Thanks for being such great and supportive company.

  359. I wonder if Tim Russert were alive if he would run the speech of McCain calling for the regulation of Fred and Fannie Mac. I’ve seen it on youtube. Its from2005. The cadidates refer to it but they need to make a commercial with that speech in it. The Obama/Biden keep harping on de-regulation while praising Reagan, the man responsible for dismantling the regulations that were in effect. McCain warned about this issue and he needs to make the American people aware that the democrats are lying when they’ve said he favors deregulation and that caused the financialmeltdown, Both parties in Congress are responsible. They are now covering their asses by throwing good money after bad. Don’t get me started on the “sweetners” that enabled this bill to pass the Senate. Thats the typical Washington response and thats where Palin brings the people to Washington.

  360. Sarah Palin’s effect…is she leaves you wanting more…

    she is smart and she is upbeat…you get a feeling of hope from her…she might not have all the gotcha answers but her instincts seem solid

    …sorry but the dems this time around sound sour, angry, mean spirited and all doom and gloom…

    …everyone is nervous these days…Palin leaves you with the feeling she is ready to jump in and get working on solutions…and if the dems were stupid enough to put our best candidate on the sidelines, Hillary, then at least Sarah exudes optimism

  361. “Am I living in another dimension, or is she?” Yes, it’s called reality.

  362. I would love to be Obama’s running mate I would show the news media what disloyality realy is…

    I would have maccaca moments everytime I opened my mouth…I would say ……

    “I dont like Arugula”

    I would be worth it to help bring Obambi down

    I would show you what taking one for the “Team” is all about

  363. Obama will probably “delegate” all the work to Biden. If there’s a crisis: “they’ll call me if they need me.”

  364. “but not okay for Palin to be pretty, feminine, cute and sexy AND to know policy and be smart”

    It really doesn’t make any difference. They hate her because she’s a woman. They’re making fun of her because she’s pretty, but if she cut her hair and gained 50 pounds they’d be calling her “fat, disgusting lezzie” or whatever. If they couldn’t deny how smart she is, they’d say she didn’ do it on her own because she made money in beauty pageants, or her husband helped her, or she had rich parents, or she wasn’t born in Barack’s manger. There’s nothing she could do to be okay with them. The specifics change, the hate remains the same.

  365. Sophia,

    I was extremely tense today. I thought about her performance all day. She did so well. Like I said earlier, I think she was playing dumb for the media. Good strategy. Who says “I will get back to you”. It was a brilliant set up. Remember MCCain during the interview yesterday, he had very much confidence in Sarah. Tuesday McCain will wipe the floor with Obama.

  366. When I gave her specific examples of issues that he hadn’t been questioned about (Ayers, Rezko) she said that “every politician” has known people who are of questionable character.

    They all use the same excuses. No, every candidate has not had such an extreme pattern of questionable LONG TERM and close associates. They always echo Obama’s lie: just some guy from the neighborhood. These are people that have been integral to his life and career for DECADES. Ugh, what’s the use? They are deaf.

  367. Terry McAuliffe will run for VA Governor. This is gonna drive the Kossacks crazy. Kaine and Warner support him.

  368. fuzzy,
    You are too funny !!

  369. Obama probably choked on his arugula smoothie tonight.

  370. So far the best line about the debate that I’ve read is

    “Sarah Palin made Joe Biden pay for his own r*pe kit”
    from the following youtube clip –

  371. After tonight, I cannot picture Sarah sitting in policy meetings and remaining silent as did Condi Rice. Sarah will push, push, push. She is tough.

  372. Fuzzy wrote: I would have maccaca moments everytime I opened my mouth…I would say ……

    “I dont like Arugula”
    _______________________________

    LOL! Biden has already had macaca moments (before he was VP). But nobody talks about them in the MSM. Obama is “clean and articulate.” You have to be Indian to work in a 7-11….

    What a loser.

  373. Think that’s what many of these so-called “experts” keep overlooking and dismissing.

  374. Well, I thought she was FAB RD & Co. I took so many notes you can’t believe it. She was like a PUMA, in a way. Not Hillary who was our pick, but strong and I feel practical and ethical and actually less regional than I imagined.

    She is STRONG — will be STRONG and will be the Change out of this regime we have all lived with the last 8 years. REFORMS ahoy! But in good ways. A way out of this war. Finally.

    She’s for all the little people in all the little towns and that is what we need here — so much, for all the practical reasons after so much corruption. I was very proud of her. Very. Woman to woman — glass ceiling to glass ceiling —

    and I think it will be even okay for Gary too! Yay!

    geez.

    hugs to all.
    Country first, economic reforms — no marxism, no fascism, no truth squads necessary. Back to an UNDIVIDED America.

    and, an AMERICA that respects PUMAS everywhere.

  375. Did anyone else notice where ” Say it aint so Joe” said he would be in the same room with bo for every major decision ? or some such nonsense??

    He is going to hold his hand for four years and bunk in with him for the three am calls too ??

  376. night all gotta work does murphy have a show tomorrow?

    I can sleep to because the sun will shine

  377. Quoting Seriously:

    ” they’d say she didn’ do it on her own because she made money in beauty pageants, or her husband helped her, or she had rich parents, or she wasn’t born in Barack’s manger. ”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    LOLOLOL. My neighbors are probably going to call the police if I don’t stop laughing. They already think I’m a bit odd.

    That’s almost as good as a nice glass of sangria.

  378. Um, Johnboy — how do you consider the Hannity bet a draw? Let me explain how to parse a sentence to you: the last clause of the sentence below beginning with “which” refers to the troops. So, Obama is saying that the troops air raiding villages & killing civilians is causing enormous problems in Afghanistan and we need to send more troops so they will stop air raiding villages & killing civilians. Palin was right, Obama said it, and Hannity wins the bet.

    “Now you have narco drug lords who are helping to finance the Taliban, so we’ve got to get the job done there [in Afghanistan], and that requires us to have enough troops that we are not just air raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.”
    #

  379. They need to keep her out there. She has to be visible. It would be a huge mistake to retire her to some chamber now that the big debate has concluded. She will make the case and the difference. Show her off!!

  380. Night, Carol. You were right about Palin. She was great.

  381. I grew up in Chicago as a Cubs fan (Northsiders are Cubs fans, Southsiders are White sox fans). Then I went to school in Boston and was there for the ’75 world series against the Reds. I lived two blocks from Fenway for about two years. So to me, a Cubs-Red Sox series was always my worst nightmare. Now that the curse of the Bambino has been put to rest, I can safely root for the Cubs without reservation.

    Never, never, never give up! Remember Red Sox v.s. Angels and then Mets v.s. Red Sox in ’86? Red Sox v.s. Yanks in ’04? It’s not over until the last out.

    p.s I still find Dick Morris amusing…

  382. Pat

    i made my decision on May 31st. the roll call vote was the icing. and i did not change party affiliation because i want to fight all the incumbent dems in the primaries. at state level.

    i also decided to vote reps downticket. i do not talk politics with my friends (mostly artists) who consider me an extreme liberal, progressive, whatever u call it. they will have a hearth attack and will think that i’m making just a bad joke.

    the dems do noting for gays, women, poor….whatever. all those r issues just before elections. i know where the reps r. i do not agree almost with anything.

    at the same time, if pelosi was considering BO fresh …..well, sarah is FRESH and organic and HAND PICKED. i’m tired of all politicians being lawyers.maybe they should be economists. we need more of those.

  383. Okay, I had to do it, I went to Huffpoop to take a peek. I can only say this is the audacity of audacity, and I’m obligated to say:

    Warning: Head Explosions may result

    Joe’s Tears: the Political Power of Paternal Love
    Leah McElrath Renna, 10.02.2008

    Joe Biden did more for the equality of the sexes with his honest display of paternal emotion during the vice presidential debate than Sarah Palin’s presence on the executive ticket has or will ever do.

  384. Of course Palin is dangerous! as VP, she would be the president of the senate, with a tie breaking vote, if necessary. more importantly, i’m sure the senate, sending pork bill after pork bill through, is going to get very familiar with the phrase “Ladies and Gentlemen of the Senate, that dog won’t hunt!”

  385. Sugar has the latest McCain ad posted. It’s a series of Biden gaffes. Pretty funny.

    http://sugarnspice.typepad.com/

  386. Prolix: I hope you showered before entering this room.

  387. my keyboard is wet because I had to shower it too.

  388. Prolix,

    Come on. You made that up, right?

    “Joe Biden did more for the equality of the sexes with his honest display of paternal emotion during the vice presidential debate than Sarah Palin’s presence on the executive ticket has or will ever do.”

  389. Prolix: I give you credit. I have not been over there in ages. It stinks of Obama love. But it is amusing to read some of those comments. Some are so stupid it unsettles me that these people are allowed to vote let alone drive a vehicle.

  390. “Joe’s Tears: the Political Power of Paternal Love”

    Oh dear. Is this… satire? The Onion? It can’t possibly be real.

  391. alice: They are desperate if this is the best they can do.

  392. Prolix ~
    I just threw up in my mouth a bit . . . . I haven’t gone to huffpoop for ever and I just wish I hadn’t read your post.

    blergh

  393. alice,

    It is the sad result of cult brainwashing. These people will have to be deprogrammed some day.

  394. Joe’s Tears: the Political Power of Paternal Love
    Leah McElrath Renna, 10.02.2008

    Joe Biden did more for the equality of the sexes with his honest display of paternal emotion during the vice presidential debate than Sarah Palin’s presence on the executive ticket has or will ever do.

    WTF? Well, these are the same effing idiots who said Obama was the better candidate for women and would be the firts “female” president in the primary. Fricken morons.

  395. BB,

    I have a vivid imagination, but LSD was never a steady part of my diet — wish I had that kind of imagination because I’d give Stephen King a run for his money, but that is an actual article and it is also up in the headlines.

  396. This year has been a real eye opener. The time outside the DNC has been really refreshing. I never knew what a bunch of sleaze balls were in the DNC until I stepped outside of it. On Hannity , Joe Liberman said that teh DNC is not the same party it was in 2000. I agree with him. I am staying up for the O’reily show repeat with Barney battling O’reily. Barney looks like and idiot. Nancy Pelosi gets thumbs down from me. They are acting like Repubs ala 1980’s (ick)

  397. Prolix,

    I’m glad you went over there and took the hit for the rest of us. This has been a long day. I don’t think I could have handled it.

  398. All Afro American Gal: I saw a little of that screaming match tonight between Billo and Barney. Two utter morons ranting and raving at one another. Ridiculous. Then Billo calls Barney a “coward” a few times and they move to commercial. Total theater. Total b.s.

  399. bb: Prolix has always done the dangerous jobs.

  400. It’s been so long since I’ve been over to Huffpoop that it had dropped off my browser list.

    Hey, Greta is replaying O’Really and Barney Frank in a few. Looks like it was a knock-down, drag-out Texas cage match.

  401. I didn’t watch the debate. I’m looking at my friends’ away messages and one person said it was a great debate? Ok, whatever. I think everyone thinks their candidate won so I don’t really believe anything out there. I can only bear coming to The Confluence to read about election stuff. I don’t even bother tuning into the debates anymore. But I’m glad to hear that Palin did well because I’ve been hearing about the Couric debate all week from the Obamabots.

  402. Yahoo headline: Emotional Debate: Sarah Palin gets tough on Iraq, while Joe Biden chokes up over personal tragedy.

  403. meanwhile, out in fraudland:

    Times of Northwest Indiana: County rejects large number of invalid voter registrations
    Lake County Republican Chairman John Curley wants a federal investigation into hundreds of voter registrations bearing fictitious signatures or the names of dead and underage people.
    “Fraudulent applications are the workings of ACORN groups operating from Milwaukee and Chicago who are getting out the vote for Obama. I’m Republican, but I want everyone who should vote to vote. But I want a clean election,” Curley said at a Wednesday news conference.
    Lake County elections officials acknowledged they have found problems and had to reject a large portion of the 5,000 registration forms turned in recently by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, an activist group that conducted registration drives across the county this summer.
    An ACORN spokesperson couldn’t be reached Wednesday for comment. Telephones to ACORN offices in Gary, Indianapolis, Chicago and Milwaukee were reported to be disconnected…
    http://nwi.com/articles/2008/10/02/news/lake_county/doc5399904569d23a75862574d600010e55.txt

  404. sorry, Couric interview. not debate

  405. Prolix: A complete screaming match. The only thing left out was “mine’s bigger than yours!”

  406. I just have to say this…

    in watching Biden’s expressions throughout the debate, could it be that he was taken by surprise and actually impressed – but didn’t realize it was written all over his face?

    His big shmaltzy grins were puzzling and I was just wondering….his mouth takes off without permission, maybe his facial expressions do too.

  407. Sarah won the debate for one simple reason: She exceeded expectations. Did she have an equal command of the issues as Biden? No, but we weren’t looking for that.

    The public was looking to see if she would stumble or make a gaffe, as the liberal media elites made her seem in the filtered interviews. He looked ill, tired, and worn. She was smiling and energetic.

    He might’ve been substantive but he was boring (Hillary, on the other hand, was able to be both substantive and exciting in the debates). When she said, “Lets go back to Afghanistan,” she showed that she was competent, if not interested, in foreign policy. Job well done, Sarah!

    McCain-Palin 08!
    Hillary 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  408. masslib: I hate to be a cynic, but he has used that episode a thousand times before along with the tears. Not genuine IMHO.

  409. I think Sarah’s poor interview performances were due to (besides biased editing by the MSM) a result of too many handlers making her second guess all everything. That would be the only explanation for her not even answer a simple question like, what magazines and newspapers do you read.

    Someone said that they told her to just be herself tonight. And that was a winning strategy.

  410. Biden choked up for maybe thirty seconds. It was a nice moment, but hardly the centerpiece of the debate.

    Palin stayed tough, on message and competent for ninety minutes. So, of course, they focus on him.

    Whatever.

  411. Uh, yeah. So the next time a female candiidate gets ripped to shreds for having a small quaver in her voice and dry eyes, her male candidates can freely bawl their eyes out over the injustice of it all to choruses of praise for their sensitivity. That warms my heart.

  412. Leslie…Maddow doesn’t hate women…she’s gay! It’s just that KO got her the job..and she has become his ‘yes mam’..Since se has her own show..she just seems to mouth everything KO says …what some people will do and give up..just to be heard.

  413. Pat, I’m sure they both had their luffas at the ready.

  414. They are such a bunch of sanctimonious hypocrites! The Good Old Boy Network at play.

  415. Prolix: It was absolutely ridiculous. Both shouting over the other. If there was a point to be made it was thoroughly lost in all the screaming going back and forth. Even my jaw was slung open. Too stupid for words.

  416. Palin did great! Biden lied about a dozen times but I lost count. At one point, I fell asleep while Biden was yapping in his mind-numbing fashion.

  417. I had high hopes for Maddow. She was brilliant and her analysis was most interesting. Then she joined the Hillary Hater Club and became somebody else. I suppose if you waved a few million dollars under my nose to anchor a show I too may put my scruples and integrity into mothballs. Nah!!!

  418. regarding

    noepiphany, on October 3rd, 2008 at 12:30 am Said:
    meanwhile, out in fraudland:

    Hello, ACORN, meet RICO. RICO, meet ACORN.

  419. angie,

    I wanna scream every time.

  420. Peggy Noonan on Gov. Sarah Palin’s Debate Performance

    “She killed. It was her evening. She was the star. She had him at “Nice to meet you. Hey, can I call you Joe?”

    “For an hour and a half, America saw her for a really long time and she became a star, probably on a new level.”

    “Sarah Palin was there with the camera. It was classic go over the head’s of the media and everybody else and talk straight to the American people.”

    It was amazing. In15 minutes in, she had Joe biden on the defensive on the subject of Obama and taxes.

    “She really asserted hereself.”

    “She killed.”

    This from PEGGY NOONAN!

  421. ACORN just keeps on giving and giving.

  422. I find it absolutely effing hilarious that the msm are trying to play up Biden’s little cry (which lasted 2 seconds) as some kind of “highlight” of the debate. That shows how desperate they are and how badly Palin kicked his a$$. Some one up thread pointed out that Biden’s going out of his way to schmooz Palin after the debate showed he recognized that she will be around for a while — I agree with that.

  423. or easy reference, here are the ten points Rove listed as factual inaccuracies stated by Biden:

    1) McCain voted the same as Obama on the budget resolution that calls for tax increases on people making as little as $42,000. FALSE

    2) Under Obama, the top tax rate will not be higher than it was under Reagan (28%). FALSE (they want to return it to the Clinton 39.5%)

    3) It will take at least ten years to get oil from new production. FALSE

    4) The Use of Force resolution (Iraq) was not a war resolution. FALSE

    5) McCain voted the same way as Obama on funding the troops. FALSE

    6) We spend as much in three weeks in Iraq as we have spent in seven years in Afghanistan. FALSE

    7) Article I of the Constitution refers to the Executive Branch. FALSE

    There is a windfall profits tax in Alaska. FALSE

    9) Obama voted for a nuclear weapons resolution. FALSE

    10) McCain opposed Clinton on Bosnia. FALSE

  424. McCain-Palin 2008 Communications Director Jill Hazelbaker issued the following statement on tonight’s Vice Presidential Debate:

    “Tonight, Governor Palin proved beyond any doubt that she is ready to lead as Vice President of the United States. She won this debate, putting Joe Biden on defense on energy, foreign policy, taxes and the definition of change. Governor Palin laid bare Barack Obama’s record of voting to raise taxes, opposing the surge in Iraq, and proposing to meet unconditionally with the leaders of state sponsors of terror. The differences between the Obama-Biden ticket and the McCain-Palin ticket could not have been clearer. The American people saw stark contrasts in style and worldview. They saw Joe Biden, a Washington insider and a 36-year Senator, and Governor Palin, a Washington outsider and a maverick reformer. Governor Palin was direct, forceful and a breath of fresh air.”

  425. “Asked whether he would move U.S. troops out of Iraq to better fight terrorism elsewhere, he brought up Afghanistan and said, “We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous pressure over there.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081400812.html

  426. goodnight conflucians! keep the faith!

  427. Peggy Noonan counted her out just days ago. Nice turnaround.

  428. I agree with Peggy Noonan? The world is coming to an end.

    Also, will someone please explain why the candidate with the “hope and change” meme picked a running mate that says he hasn’t changed in THIRTY-FIVE YEARS?

  429. nite Sheri!

  430. “Hello, ACORN, meet RICO. RICO, meet ACORN”

    LOL

  431. Sophia_Diva: That’s where the hope comes in.

  432. Iron Man — they can’t deny she won — only the most die-hard brainless Obots would even try. That is by what a margin she won it by. I heard (on FOX, granted) that her performance tonight “takes the VP question off the table.” Yeah, the VP question that the msm just spent the last 5 weeks making up, but whatever. So, the msm put the “too inexperienced” smack down on her (which they should have put on Obama all along) now they are switching to the “dangerous” smack down (another one that they should have been putting on Obama all along as well). What a bunch of hacks.

  433. I’m off to bed. Thanks for the great company and feedback!

  434. PJ — I’m off to bed too. Good night.
    And good night all.

  435. I think McCain should open the next debate asking if it’s okay to call him Barack. “after all, you always call me John.”

  436. Here is Hillary Clinton’s statement. How does she say this stuff with a straight face?

    “Tonight’s debate underscored the stark choice American families face in this election. I’ve known Senator Biden a long time – as Americans saw tonight, he is a strong, passionate and experienced leader. Like Barack Obama, Joe Biden understands both the economic stresses here at home and the strategic challenges in Iraq, Afghanistan, and around the world.

    “We saw yet again that Senator McCain and Sarah Palin will offer only more of the same failed policies of the Bush Administration. America’s hardworking Middle Class families deserve better.”

  437. “Sometimes Jim.”

  438. Nice one, Briana.

    Mary Beth. i know Maddow is gay. She still hates women. imhp

  439. I’ll say this: Tonight I’m donating to McPalin and to Hillary. They both deserve it.

  440. Dave: That’s why she doesn’t say it. Her assistance types it in an email and someone else faxes it to the media. Hillary’s a great actress, but she’s no Bill.

  441. I agree with whoever said earlier, I think he just pulled the short straw.

  442. Sarah was fantastic! She is a natural and a quick study and the one with real accomplishments and executive experience. She speaks directly to the average American but has real-life background to do the job.

  443. Sarah knocked and rocked it tonight. This is the woman we watched at the Convention. She has set the stage for McCain next Tuesday. Now, he needs to knock Obama flat.

    Sarah Palin just did the prep work. It was a terrific performance

  444. Hi Sherri

  445. angienc,

    Agreed.

    The msm, in a way, set themselves up for the backlash. They’ve been trying to take her out for weeks. Tonight, Sarah Palin went over the top of their heads and scored a touchdown with the American people.

    Sarah Palin is truly a servant of, by, and for the People.

    That is exactly what America needs in the White House.

    An outsider that will fight for all of us!

    Outstanding job and a shot of momentum for the real ticket of change, McCain-Palin.

    You all have a great night!

    We’ve got over 30 days until election day. It is up to We The People to stand up and take our country back!

    Let’s make every one of those days count.

    Stay the course! No retreat! Never Give Up!

  446. PRICELESS

  447. Ugh, Peggy Noonan, Ms. “Once In Love With Ronnie, Always In Love With…” My idea of hell is being roomies with her and MoDo.

  448. I would give an entire paycheck to have heard Biden’s inner dialogue during the debate:

    “Man, she’s pretty! I better be nice… I’ll just sneak a peek at her…. hey, where’d that come from?… She respects me? She respects me! Yes!!… ooooh, that stung… WTF??…they said she was a stupid bimbo…. heh, heh, heh, good one – oh shit, that was about me.!…Don’t look peeved…. God, how much longer is this going to go on?…. Yikes, another hit! … Jeezus, why do I have to be the one to face her….. OK, now that just p*sses me off!…. All those years in the senate and I have to run for VP…..That GD Barack better appreciate this…. wonder what it’s like under the bus…. Sigh….. Then again, there is that rumor that I have heath problems and I’m dropping out…. Smile, smile, smile… OK big finish, let your voice waver a little and squeeze out a tear…. Thank YOU, Governor Palin. God, I hope she wins. We’d get to see her when the Senate votes instead of Cheney and I wouldn’t have to babysit Barack. “

  449. Love it, kj.

  450. Kat5-
    don’t forget dick morris 😉

  451. FROM UP THREAD
    “All she succeeded in doing was prove that down home-sitting around the table-todd loving-soccer moms can debate.”

    THAT IS A VERY BIG THING !

    Now the question is….how much dues will the Obama bloggers and Obamabots want her to pay for the sin of that achievement?

  452. kj ~ brilliant

  453. All Afro American Girl

    I think you hit it on the nose. I’ve watched all her debates and whatever videos there were of her and any interviews from all her political days. my daughter is a poli sci major and this election is an important one. We’ve researched eery candidate, every vote every position.

    I think Palin is very aware of her audience, and spoke to the people. Her approach was folksy but she made razor sharp points when it was required and said what she needed to say. She called him out on a number of lies. Her performance was appropriate to this debate. From my research, her folksy and straightforward approach belies her intelligence. She is more intelligent and knowledgeable than she appears currently. Joe Biden was there with his prepared analysis (kept looking down at notes?) and false information. We kept a tally of every direct lie. The fact checkers will be busy tomorrow.

    I think many underestimate Palin and they will be surprised after the election.

  454. well Leslie, that may be true, but i’m just guessing here, that she’s under KO’s influence…now he hates women!!!

    All that said, I think Sarah did a terrific job tonight, she held her own and she put JB on the defensive almost immediatly. Kudos to her..for just talking to us, and saying she didn’t care what MSM had to say about her!!

  455. I have to admit, I just love it when Palin said (and I think says at pretty much every event) how she and McCain have always been proud of their country. Oh snap.

    I agree with others above about how the repubs are happy and obots are angry. You can always get a good indicator of how well McCain/Palin did at something by the amount of anger that comes out of Maddcow or Buggyala.

    On the topic of intelligence. It’s rather obvious to an unbiased observer that Palin is smart. Look how she can handle crowds. Look at what she’s done in her career. I think what some people trip up on is Palin’s colloquialisms and other variations on language that come from the midwest and west. That’s the way people talk there. And for those pathetic idiots that don’t understand linguistics and how language works, that’s correct grammar for that variation of the language. Sorry folks, but usage defines grammar and also, as we say, it’s also by golly just how some folks talk. Don’t you know. 🙂

    For me, ever since the word comfortable could be correctly pronounced “comfterble”, life just hasn’t been the same. And the poor subjective mood falling into disuse. Oh, it’s a sad day indeed. But that’s not intelligence people. The obots out there and a few here, keep bashing Palin and saying she’s stupid. It’s a fun tactic that will probably again backfire. But if you actually believe the hype, then you are indeed an idiot.

  456. Briana, the Obots are already trying to parse their way out of that one. They’re unbelievable. )Well, it’s also unbelievable that hasn’t gotten more play before now, but….)

  457. Additional Biden falseoods:

    Obama spoke about getting help for the subprime mortgage issue two weekes ago. Obama actually said that government intervention would only help speculators.

    UHC – new ads by Obama put him in the middle and do not discuss UHC.

  458. Obama meltdown month

    One more fun thing I heard. And yikes it was from dickwad morris. He said he thinks October is going to be Obama meltdown month. His reasoning is that Obama has peaked too early just like in the primaries. And now it’s all about Obama and everyone is looking at him for the first time as the person that might be president (instead of the slick change candidate). And with that realization, they’re going to pull back. The underdog position is actually a good position to be in politically and McCain/Palin will make good use of it as the focus is all on Obama. It will be just like in the primaries except there is no DNC to cheat and drag him over the finish line.

  459. Dick Morris is sort of an evil genius; I believe his take may prove correct.

  460. I do not say this as a dis’ to Palin but in some ways she is like Reagan—she connects to people where they are; she is a great communicater; a genuine middle-class/main streeter. The big difference is that with Palin it is authentic, the real deal. And she does not have alzheimers.

  461. ophia_Diva, on October 3rd, 2008 at 12:33 am Said:
    Biden choked up for maybe thirty seconds. It was a nice moment, but hardly the centerpiece of the debate.

    Palin stayed tough, on message and competent for ninety minutes. So, of course, they focus on him.

    And I would add: IN HIGH HEELS!

  462. I really don’t like Morris but I absolutely LOVED the way he destroyed Colmes on Hannity tonight.

    Thank You Sarah!

    She just set the bar pretty high for you Senator McCain. Now STEP UP!

  463. “And she does not have Alzheimer’s.” Heh. That made me laugh. I love how everyone glorifies the Gipper yet he spent most of his second term out of sight while Nancy and her astrologist ran the show.

  464. Pat Johnson, on October 2nd, 2008 at 11:48 pm Said:

    Her delivery was sharp. Her knowledge of the issues, adequate in some areas. She knows how to play to a crowd and she knows where her strengths lie. This is a lady who knows herself.
    ********

    Bill Clinton read her right – Palin has very good political instincts

  465. (shudder) eeew, don’t remind me of the ray-gun years. I’ll have nightmares. Of course Reagan was likable. And I have to admit I think he had an effect on the soviet union collapse. At least Gorbechev says so and he seems sincere when talking about it. Very horrible disease to get though. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

  466. I haven’t made it through all the comments, but I needed to say something about the tear-up moment. My husband died when we were young (25 ) . I CAN talk about it without being emotional, particularly when talking with strangers.

    The tear-up times are talking with family who share the memories, it is more intimate and sharing. Maybe if I had also lost a child, it would be different or might have taken longer, but I don’t think after so many years…

  467. In my job I speak on the phone to people all over the United States on a daily basis. Many have accents, easily recognizable after years of doing this job. And of course I must feel differently about each of them according to how they speak? What an assinine asumption that is, elitist as they come, and not doing anyone who puts forward such nonsense any favors. And Sarah Palin’s speech patterns are very consistent, not so much with the Obama fraud who seems to have one speech pattern when on national TV, another when addressing mostly AA audiences, another when he thinks he’s addressing blue collar workers. Sarah Palin is not perfect, but she is for darn sure the real deal. The only thing real about Obama is his frantic need to win at all costs. He’s not looking forward to making life better for the American people, he’s looking forward to making life better for Obama.

  468. I like Sarah. She’s a breath of fresh air for the GOP. However, John isn’t running on anything that helps the middle class. He’s running on “low taxes, no spending” and that’s depressing. Those policies have proved total failures. So as much as I like her, that ticket doesn’t reach me at all on the issues. Also, I read tonight that JM voted no to the violence against women act and does not support equal pay. He gets an F on the issues.

  469. “Bill Clinton read her right ”

    Speaking of Bill Clinton, did ya’ll see Greta ask him what’s the difference between an association with someone like David Duke and an association with someone like Reverend Wright. – STUMPED COMPLETELY. As a repub, I’ve been waiting 16 years for Bill Clinton to be asked a question and not have a good answer. Thanks Greta and I guess, thanks Obama.

  470. In my opinion, Sarah Palin won the debate by keeping Joe Biden on the defensive. It wasn’t supposed to work out that way as the experienced politician was supposed to teach that inept “hick” from Alaska a lesson. The lesson that was actually taught tonight was that one should not underestimate Sarah Palin. Evidently, she is a fast study who was capable enough to control much of the vice presidential debate regardless of whatever pro-Obama spin you will read from the perfidious MSM tomorrow morning. Sarah will continue to get better as time goes by.

  471. Typical Repub, what did he say to that? What a question!

  472. Typical Republican,

    I am very surprised that Bill Clinton did not have an answer. I hope to see this for myself. I liked Bill Clinton, and I still do, but I don’t like the fact that he is playing the good Democrat to promote someone that I believe both he and Hillary are not particularly fond of.

  473. Thanks for the link, Typical Republican.

  474. I just watched the debate a second time. I’m sorry, but I just don’t see Palin’s performance as triumphal. At her best, she seems to me quite glib. She doesn’t strike me as being any smarter than George W. Bush. Her answers seemed canned and rehearsed. She seems to me like a decent enough person, she’s very likable in her own way, but VICE PRESIDENT?

    On what planet?

    I love Hillary Clinton – now, more than ever, I believe her to be the most capable and qualified potential president in the nation. But as much as I detest the misogyny that brought her campaign down, I cannot make the leap to Palin and McCain.

    Did anyone here see Nader on Bill Maher’s show last Friday? THAT’S the sort of intellectual rigor, in the absence of Clinton, I’d like to see in the White House.

  475. Wow, that was a little painful to watch. You could see that Bill Clinton was most uncomfortable answering the question, and also relieved once he felt that he had answered it (even though his answer was lame). A lame answer from Bill Clinton? That is rare!

  476. bradmaysfilmmaker,

    I equate Obama with Bush because in my eyes they are quite similar, but on opposite sides of the political spectrum on most issues. That doesn’t say much for the top of the Democratic ticket. I would actually like to see a debate between Obama and Palin. I believe that she would be no worse than Obama, but yet Obama is on top of the Democratic ticket. Give me McCain, with Palin on the side, please. It’s sad when the better candidate (Biden) is on the bottom of the Democratic ticket.

  477. John McCain pays his female staff more than his male staff. Obama does the opposite. Voting is one thing, practice is very much another.

  478. “I would actually like to see a debate between Obama and Palin.” If Obama wins, I predict you will.

    bradmaysfilmmaker, I can’t make the leap either because all i hear is “low taxes/no spending”, and that does nothing for me at all. However, I think she’s quite smart, just less knowledgeable of the issues. Biden doesn’t deserve the top of the ticket. he ran twice for President and you could fit all his voters in one room. He was soundly rejected.

  479. If John McCain does not support equal pay for women, then why is it that his female staffers are paid more than his male staffers, while Obama pays his female staffers less.

    See this link for further information: http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Obama_Pays_Female_Staff_/2008/07/01/108863.html

  480. Regency, on October 3rd, 2008 at 2:19 am Said:

    John McCain pays his female staff more than his male staff. Obama does the opposite. Voting is one thing, practice is very much another.

    Yeah, but John McCain and Barack Obama don’t actually employ the millions of women in this country who stand to be effected by the policy. Hillary employees and better pays more women than both these guys, yet she’s pushing for the policy, I guess so guys like Obama have to pay women the way McCain does.

  481. Biden was rejected, but that does not mean that he is less intelligent than Obama. I believe, gaffes and all, that Biden is actually a better Democrat than Obama.

  482. masslib, where did you read that McCain does not support equal pay?

    Obama has been trying to make hay over this issue, and it’s absurd. There’s no pay equity on his own staff, for god’s sake. He has no credibility on that or any other issue involving women, period. It may be in the platform, but it will never be implemented on his watch.

  483. I have said, from the first time I saw Obama debating the other Democratic candidates, that to elect him AT THIS POINT IN TIME would be making the same mistake twice – that is, electing for purely emotional reasons a candidate with far too little experience (not that I voted for Bush, of course). Still, Obama is infinitely smarter than Bush, and infinitely more talented.

    And were it not for my association with PUMA PAC (and of course Lorenda), I might have gone with Obama, against my better judgment, once Clinton withdrew from the race. But that doesn’t mean I have to vote McCain. I quit the Democratic party, and am now an independent.

    I agree that on the Democratic ticket, the better candidate is second banana. But if I am to make a protest vote, I’d like to to be lucid. I’d like it to actually say something. And that is why Ralph Nader now has my vote.

  484. Seriously, on October 3rd, 2008 at 2:25 am Said:

    masslib, where did you read that McCain does not support equal pay?

    Hillary. She drafted the ledbetter law to undo the travesty the SC did to equal pay for women, and she said McCain doesn’t support it. He concurred. He supports the SC interpretation. It’s actually pretty shameful/

  485. bradmaysfilmmaker,

    If there was a viable third party candidate that could actually win, then I would also vote for him, but since my objective is change in the Democratic party, then I must support someone who can defeat Barack Obama in the general election. As i wrote previously, I have at least some trust for John McCain, while I have none for Obama.

  486. nomobama,

    Yes, I understand your position. But I have to follow my conscience.

  487. I watched the trailor to The Audacity of Democracy several times. Loved the part with the young guy rapping about how he loves Obama.

    That film implies that Obama won by dint of caucus fraud. The film maker can’t make the leap to McCain. If he doesn’t, the man whose campaign committed the caucus fraud will become president. Crime will have paid.

    Interesting existential dilemma, seems to me.

  488. bradmaysfilmmaker,

    I also do not begrudge you for your choice. I do have a question for you, though. Since it is obvious that Nader will not win, of the two likely possibilities, who are you more comfortable with?

  489. JohninCA –

    Yes, it is.

  490. JohninCA,

    I have to wonder about how those Democrats who cannot vote for either Obama or McCain will feel if Obama becomes president. This is not an indirect criticism, but only my attempt to try to understand their feelings.

  491. nomobama,

    Very good question. But the answer is obvious – neither likely possibility is acceptable to me. The dilemma is not a pragmatic one but, as JohninCA points out, an existential one.

  492. bradmaysfilmmaker, that’s reasonable and I respect that. As I do for anyone voting their conviction (without the use of kool-aid). I think most of us dems who are voting for McCain are not doing it because he will be a good president. He may indeed be horrible. I think he has conviction and principles and is not an ass, but his philosophies are different than mine. Instead I think many of us are doing it to try to save our party. And perhaps as a side effect, improve the republican party with a couple of Teddy Roosevelt types. And it certainly doesn’t hurt that there will be a women as VP. My $.02.

  493. masslib – I’m afraid we simply cannot afford anything else but low taxes . Gov. Palin is correct . Small business 250.000 cannot afford a tax increase. I doubt families making that can afford it either – if they are trying to save and put kids through college or .. heck pay off a mortgage .

    McCains healthcare is more doable than Obama’s .
    To be honest, with the economic situation I doubt either one of them will be able to do much.

    McCain pays his female staff more than Obama does. It sorta like he ‘does’ the stuff that Obama only ‘talks’ about .

    McCain made a wrong decision by not supporting the ‘violence against women act.. what year was that ..?? do you know by chance ??

    Did you see Biden at the Anita Hill hearings ? or read the transcripts etc .. ?? If you did you would see, once again, just who exactly , by words & actions was very disrespectful to women . Biden was cruel and dismissive to the max.

    It’s been a hard year for all of us dems in exile .. disappointment in our very own party . Listening & watching the dem party treating Hillary and us – her supporters like pond scum was something to behold . btw. They are still doing it.

    I have resolved my issues about voting . Mine will be McCain/Palin top of the ticket – down ticket dems .

  494. JohninCA,

    How I FEEL is not the point.

  495. VAcardinal –

    Your motives are crystal clear. But again, I am not a pragmatist.

  496. bradmaysfilmmaker,

    Not being satisfied with either is a valid position, and something that I had not considered since I would have thought that they were not equally bad. In other words, one would have to be better than the other in some way. Thanks for being honest.

  497. How I FEEL is not the point.

    Brad, I’m glad you’re here. I think this blog is serious
    about the principle that we each own our vote and that
    nobody here will tell each other how to vote. I certainly won’t.

    Are you making a distinction to the effect that your heart is telling you one thing but your head is saying another? You don’t post comments often, so I’m just trying to see where you’re coming from.

    PS. I still love that rapper guy. “Barack ain’t even had a fender bender!” Priceless.

  498. I disagree. I think we are going to need to spend on actual investments for the people to get ourselves out of this mess. The tax argument is a farce. That particular tax cut expires in a year. There is no way it will be extended or repealed early. its a done deal and just campaign rhetoric. The social security increase ain’t going to happen. Empty rhetoric. Please read above for my explanation on why McCain paying his female staff more doesn’t matter in policy terms. His health plan is god awful and will make things much more. Obama is horrible on health care too and has no real plan, however endorsing a totally unregulated private insurance plan as JM is doing, is just irresponsible, though it too has no chance in Congress. More rhetoric. I don’t care how long ago it was that McCain voted against my interests but it doesn’t endear me to him. Biden’s a jackass. I guess I’m one of the only Dem’s who doesn’t think he’s super bright, but I don’t, and he stole speeches, and lied about his law school record. However, on the issues, I am far closer to Biden than McCain.

  499. This was one of the best debates I have ever seen. I think Palin won the hearts of many people, with her performance tonight. Biden won my respect tonight but not my vote. I think both Biden and Palin are good people. I can’t say that about Obama however and although I would trust McCain, Palin or Biden as President I wouldn’t trust Obama as a dogcatcher much less as President.

    I give the debate to Palin who showed she was smart and has common sense, the latter of which is in short supply in Washington these days. I trust her to do the right thing not the politically correct thing.

    It’s getting tiring listening to the Dems try to tie McCain/Palin to the Bush administration. They are sounding like a One Trick Pony, or should it be a One Trick Jackass.

  500. JohninCA –

    I think you answered your own question when you articulated my dilemma. Look, I’m an artist. I ask, I don’t answer. When I argue, I don’t need to be proven right. If I am ultimately proven wrong, then I consider myself blessed because I’ve learned something new.

    I don’t need to be right, now or ever. But what I DO must make sense to me, the math has to add up. I have to follow my internal navigation system.

    All we’re talking about here is my measly little vote.

  501. I think Palin did fine tonight.

    No, she is not “Kissingeresque” in her foreign policy knowledge, nor does she have years of experience in the Senate. Besides, what the hell did Obama know before his couple of years in the Senate? It hasn’t stopped him from being the Dem nominee.

  502. bradmaysfilmmaker,

    No, no,no,no. I have to disagree with one thing that you wrote. No vote is “measly”. Never!

    Please don’t feel that way. If a large percentage of voters felt that way, regardless of who they supported, it would not bode well for democracy.

  503. Oops… correction… change never to ever.

  504. Exactly, Fredster. Besides, I believe that Sarah is a quick study.

  505. nomobama,

    I stand corrected.

  506. “Hillary. She drafted the ledbetter law to undo the travesty the SC did to equal pay for women, and she said McCain doesn’t support it. He concurred. He supports the SC interpretation. It’s actually pretty shameful”

    The New Agenda via Reclusive Leftist quotes Palin as saying that she and McCain will uphold equal pay, She does reject ledbetter and falls back on the old Republican trick of “we already have the laws,” but at least that’s better than the Obamacrat meme of 99 Problems. As you’ve seen this week, Hillary tried to solve the economic crisis and they stuffed her into a closet instead of passing her proposals. If you think the He Menz Wimmin haterz club will pass anything she’s authored, forget anything that helps subhumans, well, I don’t share your confidence. As Kerry said, “UHC? Ewww…she touched it, now it has cooties.”

  507. new thread up, btw

  508. Sharon,

    I disagree. So Sarah comes across as being “cutesy”. I would describe it as “folksy”. It doesn’t mean that she lacks intelligence, nor does it mean that she could not learn. Palin is a breath of fresh air, not some pompous blowhard who prefers to speak above the masses in order to keep them clueless.

  509. The New Agenda via Reclusive Leftist quotes Palin as saying that she and McCain will uphold equal pay, She does reject ledbetter and falls back on the old Republican trick of “we already have the laws,” but at least that’s better than the Obamacrat meme of 99 Problems.

    No, it’s no because one is a matter of personal, one is a matter of policy. He’d look awfully silly vetoing a bill he co-sponsored.

  510. Good night everyone. I usually do not post on this blog, but I wanted to see what Riverdaughter’s response was to what I consider to be Anglachel’s unfair attack.

  511. “i want someone who speaks in an educated manner, who is smarter than me and who has somewhat of a vision.” Well, if that’s Obama, Biden or McCain, you must not be very bright. No offense.

  512. “I don’t want a hockey mom for president ”

    That’s one way of putting it.

    “i want someone who speaks in an educated manner, who is smarter than me and who has somewhat of a vision”

    So you won’t be voting for O, then? Well…no one can blame you.

    “its creepy -”

    You’re not wrong. It *is* creepy.

  513. Well, being in California I feel my vote doesn’t count. Either all 55 of California’s electoral votes will be handed to Obama on a silver platter, or it will be the bigest upset since like Super Bowl III.

  514. “And that baby she brings up on stage and then passes around to all the family members. I’m sorry, but at 10-11 PM, 6 month old babies should be home with a babysitter if mom and dad are out for the evening. its creepy -” Oh I see, you are not too bright.

  515. Why does Sarah need a babysitter when she has two teenagers that are capable of watching the baby? I do not think it is particularly creepy because I would imagine that the baby had a good nap before he was brought to the venue. A close knit family can take care of its own, and since the baby is not exposed to that schedule every day, what concern is it of your’s?

  516. Let’s hope for the upset, JohninCA! I don’t know if you are a Democrat or Republican. I am a life long Democrat who cannot stomach Obama or the duplicitous DNC.

  517. masslib, he doesn’t give a damn how he looks. 5 months ago he praised dereg as one of those marvy Republican ideas we all need to emulate, now he acts like he invented the concept of regulation. He can flip with impunity and never get called on it. And I doubt he’d have to veto it, it would never get to him in the first place. There are plenty of ways to quietly kill a bill. He’s not going to support a woman-driven policy agenda, he’s just not. He doesn’t know or care anything about policy to begin with, all he cares about is politics, and they think that dumping on women is a good electoral strategy. Not only is it what they’re all comfortable with, they think it brings in votes and doesn’t alienate any. They think there’s no risk because they can play the Roe card and we’ll all crawl back no matter what. And if that’s validated in Nov, it will be set in stone.

  518. Palin isn’t an intellectual like Adlai Stevenson, but I’ll say this in her defense. She’s supposed to have given every Alaskan like $1200 from oil revenues. I have never, ever, heard of a Democratic or Republican governor doing something like that.

    The closest would be when Jesse Ventura was said to have sent a tax rebate check to Minnesotans. People like politicians who are independent or mavericky in a populist way.

  519. There are street smarts and book smarts. Palin has a college degree, but she excels at her street smarts.

  520. “I would imagine that the baby had a good nap before he was brought to the venue.”

    Don’t you understand that taking a baby out instead of leaving it with a sitter is tantamount to child abuse????? They’re probably taking it to strip bars and making it smoke funny cigarettes. Today you break the universal rule of baby bedtimes for the stupid trivial reason that you’re a major party candidate and well, maybe as the baby grows up you can point to him on the video and say, “look! that’s you! everybody went to this historic occassion, even you!” tomorrow you’re feeding the baby razor blades. Talk sense. If you can’t see the creepiness, you have a problem. Also, he has DS which is his mother’s fault.

  521. nomobama, I’m neither Republican nor Democrat. In Italy they used to have something called Christian Democrat. That, while imperfect, might be somewhat more congenial to me than what they have here.

    I hope and frankly pray that Obama loses for many reasons. It is clear to me that his louder followers are engaged in outright fascistic tactics: smear, slander, caucus fraud, false accusations of racism used as a bludgeon. I have called this liberal fascism, liberal Karl Rovism, liberal Lee Atwaterism, and liberal illiberality.

  522. Also, he has DS which is his mother’s fault.

    What the hell is that supposed to mean?

  523. Put quite simply, if you can complain that your opponent does not support equal pay when you yourself do not pay your female staff members (oh whom you have very few) equally, then why should anyone believe your not worth the paper they’re printed on pronouncements are anything but hypocritical bs? Obamacrats will continue to believe that equal pay is wonderful deep in their hearts while they do everything the can to make sure they don’t have to live by their stated policy and nobody else does either.

  524. Thanks Seriously. I didn’t know if you were kidding me at first! I had read your response to Sharon, and actually thought you had agreed with her. Now I know differently.

  525. You haven’t heard that particular goodie, John? You don’t spend a lot of time in teh liberal blogosphere, do you? Sarah palin is a bad person because she gave birth at an age where DS is a risk. She is evil and horrible and caused her son to get DS and should stop breeding. Breeding is icky and irresponsible.

  526. JohninCA,

    I have always voted Democrat, but that will change this year. I would like to see the Democratic party brought back to the center. It will not happen with an Obama presidency. I tolerate the ultra-left, but I do not support their agenda.

  527. GN, again. It’s about 4:00am here in Florida, and all is not well since I haven’t slept yet!

  528. Here are the sponsors of the equal pay act. 44 democrats, 1 Republican. It clearly has the votes to pass. It was blocked by the repubs on a procedural motion. Who is more likely to sign it into law? My guess is a democrat.

    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-s1843/show

  529. Night

  530. masslib – They could have passed it this year . Why didn’t they ?

    “It clearly has the votes to pass”

    dems have had the power of committee since Jan. 20, 07 .. Nancy could have brought it to the floor anytime she wanted to – I have a feeling that this being an election cycle that many , many more repubs would have gotten on the bandwagon.

    Why didn’t Nancy bring it to the floor for a vote ?

  531. It was passed by the House last year:

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2831

  532. 223 dems voted for it, 6 against. 193 repubs voted against it, 2 for it.

  533. Thanks .. by your question I had to assume it wasn’t passed .. sorry ..

    “Who is more likely to sign it into law? ”

    sure glad bush didn’t veto it ..

  534. It passed the House, but not the Senate. As I said the repubs in the Senate blocked it by a procedural motion. 44 dems, and 1 repub are co-sponsors in the senate. Bush didn’t veto it, because he didn’t have the chance to.

  535. “dems have had the power of committee since Jan. 20, 07 .. Nancy could have brought it to the floor anytime she wanted to – I have a feeling that this being an election cycle that many , many more repubs would have gotten on the bandwagon”

    Also, it was THIS year that repubs in the Senate blocked it by a procedural maneuver, so no dice on the bandwagon.

  536. So Republicans–don’t support equal pay. Will not enact equal pay.

    Democrats–support equal pay. Will not enact equal pay. Do not practice equal pay.

  537. Seriously, what are you talking about? Clearly, Dem’s will enact equal pay. They were blocked by a procedural vote. That sort of shenanigan would be near impossible when they lose Senate seats in a few weeks, and under a President who has the bully pulpit and co-sponsored the bill. Come on, there is a lot not to like about the Democrats this year, but they have the upper hand on this issue as a matter of policy.

  538. Remember the House already passed it on near complete partisan lines. It is co-sponsored by almost every Democratic Senator. Look, I don’t even know how effective the law will be. I’m not suggesting anyone vote on it as a single issue. But the Democrats have the upper hand on it. It’s also possible it will be enacted no matter who is President. But more likely under a Deam.

  539. Masslib, when the democrats were in the minority in the Senate, we were told that they simply couldn’t put up a fight on anything because the minority has no power. Now, we are told that the minority has all the power and can prevent the majority from doing absolutely anything because the majority has no power. If the majority increases, there will be another excuse for why this fails. Sorry, but I’m not buying it anymore. Sure sure, Obama wil use his bully pulpit to promote equal pay. It’ll be first on the agenda. They’ll spend political capital on benefitting voters who they look on as liabilities and who, if god forbid Obama wins, will have proven that their votes are guaranteed regardless of how horribly they’re treated.

    It won’t pass, but there’ll be a real good excuse as to why, and we’ll try again someday. Someday.

  540. Seriously, Obama is actually campaigning on this one, probably because so many Democrats are determined to enact it. This isn’t something just sitting around. The House has already passed it. On this one, I can’t see how it won’t be passed and enacted under any Dem President. It simply has too much support in the Senate. Now it may be that it would be passed anyway once the Dems expand their majority in the Senate, and it may be true McCain wouldn’t veto it. I’m really not sure. I mean, I’d say it’s likely he wouldn’t. But it’s simply more likely under a Dem president who co-sponsored it and is campaigning on it.

  541. I know he’s campaigning on it, now. But the first day he started to push it was what, the day McCain picked a female VP? I think it probably had a lot less to do with his own and the Democratic Senators’ passion for the issue than it does with the fact that he thinks he can pick off women’s votes and somehow manage not to get called on his own hypocrisy. It seems more like an extention of what Chuck Todd called his strategy to run hard with misogyny and then pull Clinton voters back by playing the Roe card, ie wave shiny objects in front of our faces. He has zero credibility, and he can blantantly dump it and pay no price for it because he also has zero accountability.

    I will believe it when it see it. It’s a hell of a lot more likely that equal pay would join…just about everything else in America at this point under the bus.

    But if it happens, I’ll go to DC to see it enacted, if only to see whether the He Men Women Hater’s Club will literally brush pay inequity off their shoulders, so to speak. That would be a novel change.

    Night.

  542. 68% to 30% Palin rules. She wins. This on the one human one vote Drudge Poll. Certainly less accurate and academic proper (as the Propundits will instruct) and much more favorable for Palin than MSNBC, CNN, and the alphabets have proffered, but it is also less loving than the FOX text polls. So, how about that. The comrades of Obama could not with all their, phone banks, e-mail action messages and ipod apps sway the people. So, how about that. Fail, Axelrod, fail! Giant mother hating sexist sex maniac!

    The woman is a force. And, as I have dropped to Palin poo poo’er Ms. Kat Parker, hate her for her positions on any number of things, but this lady is not dumb or ill-informed, she is raw and a rookie when it comes to the elite Democratic press and their natural state of in the tank socialism and lack of empathy for any fool without polished right coast cocktail party social skills.

    Hate her, but truth is… she has bigger coconuts than Mr. Barack by an order of magnitude. Right now, in Tehran, the foggy froggy folk are saying to each other… Barack good! Strong woman bad! So, how about that.

    hunh.

  543. Cnn is trying to say biden won this debate. Do these people even care they look like fools when they lie like that. GOd this is patehtic. First McCain now Palin when we these fools realize they aren’t helping by promoting incompetence.

  544. One thing I like about Palin is that she has excellent judgement. That is more important than IQ. Herbert Hoover was known as a genius and he raised taxes on the upper income people and businesses and it either caused or made the depression worse. Carter raised taxes in a recession and it caused double digit inflation and unemployement.

  545. Oh Sarah what are you doing to me? I had flip-flopped about voting for you and Senator McCain because he voted for the pork-laden bailout bill and had decided to vote McKinney because I am damn determined to follow the 30% solution and vote by gender whenever possible.

    Now you show up to debate with every pundit, yeah why do I listen, saying how dumb you are and you prove them wrong. Wronger than wrong.

    If there is one bunch of nasty critters I loathe even more than politicians it’s the media and the pundidiots. You proved them wrong in front of millions of people. YOU, the dumb one, made them look like morons.

    Honest to gosh Sarah, I don’t know what I am gonna do now. I just can’t see myself not voting for you.

    I’m getting so good at flip-flopping maybe I should run for office. Nah, I’ve got one of those mid-western accents and every one knows that means you’re stupid.

  546. If effiency is anything to go by – WELL DONE BIDEN!

    He may not be as popular, he was however the most efficient.

    What are our needs – playing housie housie, or getting things done right – the first time!

    It would have been great, in my opinion, to have a woman as VP or President. However, Palin is still a baby in a big man’s world. Hilary would have wiped the floor with her. And, so will any statesman in the world!

    God save us, if we are even contemplating voting – because she’s nice – she’s a mother – or she’s cute!

    This is our lives at stake – AND, I am sure, The Republican Party can do a hell of a lot better than Palin.

    Once again Mc Cain – has caused the pain!

    He thought, that by bringing in a woman, it would swing the Hilary voters! Can he be so naive to think that Palin could actually accomplish that?

    She could be a great benefit to a party sure – but top dog – never!

    I wonder if Mc Cain is really taking his campaign seriously enough? He is doing things wrong, and Obama may not “understand”, however, sad to say, John – you’ve got no clue!

    Chase Morgan

  547. She did well with her Cilff’s Notes.
    I miss Dan Quayle.

  548. Was I watching the same debate? Palin evaded questions, brought up insignificant Alaskan “facts,” stuck by ice age ideals, and only came across as the halfwit who doesn’t understand that she is not alone in her bedroom with a webcam. To compare her to Tina Fey is a great disservice to the comedienne…I guess I should be more concerned with the Castro Bros. and their nucular wessels. We are but Koopa Troopas. -_-

  549. Sarah beat the very low expectations of her…not sure I would consider that winning…she did stop the bleeding from the last week and a half.

    Biden did okay…I think he won because his responses were more substantive…however he could have done a lot better and missed a lot of opportunities.

    As we should have expected…a VP debate will not change the game. Never has and probably never will.

  550. Love how the Obots feel the need to come and spew their talking points (which have no connection to reality) and the very end of an old thread. You people need to think for yourselves — Oh yeah that would require a brain.
    And Alfredeus you sexist pig — Tina Fey is a “comic” the word “commedienne” went out with the ice age.

  551. Biden won me over–his answers were thoughtful and substantive. Voting for McCain/Palin is trashing everything Hillary Clinton fought so hard for. A vote for Palin (and not Obama) is a slap in the face to HC.

  552. Wow. The obots must be nervous. Too bad they call Biden’s answers “substantive” but never actually discuss the substance. Doh! Oh, we’ll just say he’s smarter and everyone will believe us because he has a penis.

    And it’s so freakin’ funny that yesterday the debate was going to be the McCain campaign death knell. Pundits opined that Sarah wouldn’t be able to put a sentence together. But this morning VP debates are suddenly meaningless and it really doesn’t matter that she spoke articulately and knowledgeably, kicked a$$ AND didn’t break a sweat Yeah right. In your dreams.

  553. I disagree with McCain on this issue, but he is not against equal pay itself. He is against the unlimited time frame to sue employers contained in that bill, because he feels it could lead to frivolous lawsuits.

    Personally, I think the current 180 day rule to sue is crap, but unlimited may be a bit much for some conservatives to swallow. I’d like to see a compromise bill that allows 5 years or something.

    It’s a bit unfair to say that McCain “doesn’t believe in equal pay for women”. He does, and has said so repeatedly, as well as demonstrated it on his own staff. He has problems with THAT PARTICULAR bill, because he thinks it has problems. That’s not quite the same thing.

  554. If Palin could have winked at the camera maybe just one more time she would have convinced me that she has what it takes to stare down Putin. We really need a cutesy President, and she *almost* fits the bill.

  555. I’d’ve been a lot more impressed by Gov. Palin if she’d actually answered one of the questions. That, and the endless jabbering about her being an ‘energy” expert. Gimme a break – the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission isn’t about energy, it’s about business.

    BTW, the main reason Alaska could cut taxes in the past couple of years has nothing to do with the governor’s or the state legislature’s fiscal responsibility; it’s because the state rakes in a percentage royalty (at a guess, between 1/8 and 1/6 of the sale price) of every barrel of oil produced. With a 100-200% increase in oil prices since 2005, the state’s coffers are flooded with money. Why not lower taxes?

  556. Wow, I can tell Palin knocked it out of the park by how pathetic the obots are coming to this thread. I don’t think they know how they come across. Must be a side effect of the kool-aid.

  557. Hands down Sarah Palin WON.She speaks to everyday people..like me! I want her and John McCain to clean up Washington.Maybe THEN the DNC will return to its conservative values and STOP allowing people like Nobama whos TRUE MENTOR is Saul Alinsky.If yall don’t know about this Marxist radical Socialist then you need to google the heck outta him and learn the true agenda that Nobama has for our Great Country.Sarah is sharp,a quick study and BASICALLY has morals and convictions which Nobama or Biden have.I wished she had spoken about his Pork Barrel spending this year..if you don’t know the amount LEARN it..He is Boorish and a sheep IMHO
    ps.Have yall seen the indoctrination going on in the Colleges from Teachers about Obama..OMG..now they have a group of children singing his song..So reminiscent of Hitlers kids that sung his praises…Excuse me while I go throw up!

  558. All partisanship aside, when a candidate does not answer half of the questions asked, they have not done a good job, and they cannot win the debate. Palin didn’t fall on her face, but she simply didn’t answer the questions.

  559. Anna Belle, on Oct. 02-08 at 11:11 pm said:
    “Sarah Palin…is kind of stupid…(and) has a lot of informal intelligence…”

    I’d rather have a VP who uses non flowery language but
    GETS THINGS DONE, such as GOV. SARAH PALIN,
    than somebody who uses
    ornate language from a teleprompter (and can’t t tell you anything meaningful without one) who HAS NOT ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING TANGIBLE OR OF CONSEQUENCE in behalf of his constituents or this nation, such as OBAMA, who is running for the top spot!

    My impression of GOV. PALIN is that she is a quick learner,
    has the innate ability to sort through ideas and plans and SHE KNOWS HOW TO PRIORITIZE AND THEN EXECUTE A PLAN. She will do her job. She will get things done. That is the kind of “informal intelligence” I will take any day over flowery empty words.

    I must say, however, that I really enjoy listening to beautiful
    speeches filled with substance such as the ones delivered by
    Senator Hillary Clinton, showing her mastery of the English language.

    An idea or thought can be delivered in polished or not so polished English. We, the people, are figuring, by the history of their accomplishments, who will implement the plan, who will get things done. In my view, Gov. Sarah Palin beats both Senator BIden and Obama.

    BTW, I have enjoyed reading your comments through the primary at the various blogs.

    Hechos y no Palabras!
    Deeds, not Words!

    McCain/Palin ’08

    Hillary Clinton ’12

  560. Sarah did fine.
    Only thing I wish she had done more was to object to some of Biden’s attacks on McCain.

    I’ll settle for McCain/Palin for 2008 and have Hillary be Prez in 2012.

    Although McCain pulled out of Michigan (a mistake), I just received my absentee ballot and will vote for McCain-Palin. In fact, I am so pissed off with the DNC, the only Dem I will vote for is John Dingell. I really dislike Levin.

  561. BTW,
    Debating is not taking an exam. You bring the debate points to your strength not to magnify weaknesses.
    Anyway, who really remembers the question asked. It’s the response that matters.

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