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Tuesday: Nancy and Barack- Perfect together!

Way to go, Nancy!  Not only have you participated in constructing a bailout bill that Treasury and the companies affected privately admit has no punitive elements they can’t wiggle around and screw the taxpayers, but you have failed to get your ducks in a row to pass it.  And the Republicans have very carefully maneuvered you into a corner: Congresspersons are putting their seats at risk if they vote for this turkey.

But Obama is hardly off the hook.  Last week, just before he was called back to Washington, he decalred that he expected to he back on the campaign trail by Thursday:

“If we get consensus and everybody is popping champagne, then I’ll probably go back to campaign with folks who are having a tough time in Ohio and Michigan,” Mr. Obama said. “If this ends up being a close vote or a vote where the outcome is at all in question, then obviously this is a top priority.”

So, Obama conveeeeeniently skirts another politically expensive vote on the measure, consistent with his habit in the past to avoid them.  BUT, it seems Ok with him to plunk $700 billion in front of Wall Street, presumably so he can scream in outrage against it after the deed is done.  Or does he make it a priority and acting like it is an emergency, he votes for it?  Either way, he behaves like he is completely detached from the whole thing.  Not his problem.  It’s Congress’:

When Obama, the party’s new leader, learned of the plan’s rejection, he spoke about Washington almost as if he weren’t a member of Congress.

“Democrats and Republicans in Washington have a responsibility to make sure that an emergency rescue package is put forward that can at least stop the immediate problems we have so we can begin to plan for the future,” he said.

He didn’t say how he might lead or what role he’d play. “Step up to the plate,” he told Congress. “Get it done.

Neither Pelosi or Obama have shown any gift for leadership in this mess.  Both are very anxious to get this financial bailout out of the way.  They don’t seem to be particularly concerned for the fate of the homeowner tied to a predatory loan and on the verge of losing everything.  They’re not vexxed by the idea that the Treasury will be depleted by this move, that taxpayer money will be given to greedy, incompetant Wall Street executives for not much in return.  It’s all Kabuki to them.  Ehhh, so what if there’s no money left to enact new programs for health care and education.  It’s actually *worse* than that.  Obama still plans on a tax cut for middle class families, like that will ever happen if this deal is ever approved. The US Government will be flat broke. But the obscene amount of money involved in the bailout never gave him pause; it was only the terms, which we now know the companies involved considered no great burden.

No, what we have here is some kind of plan to give Wall Street exactly what it wanted.  Nancy and Barack were in on it.  Neither one of them found the money number so outrageous that they couldn’t resign themselves to forking it over.  Neither one fought very hard for protections for the homeowners or taxpayers.  It was going to be a gift from the Democrats to Wall Street.  And neither seemed very concerned that this bill would be incredibly unpopular or that it would put downticket Democrats at risk of losing their seats.

But what do we expect from these two?  Pelosi created Barack Obama. She threw all her support behind him, gave him her coalitions, helped whip superdelegates and delegates into his corner for the nomination.  She calls the shots, he follows her lead.  He had nothing to say during the summit last week at the White House and couldn’t wait to bolt DC as soon as it was over.  The future leader of the free world is not losing sleep over it.  It’s not his problem.  Nancy will take care of it.

Heidi Li has more in The Pelosi-Obama Style – Not so much the rage at the moment

331 Responses

  1. I don’t even want a tax cut. I want health care, good schools, energy independence. A tax cut? Heh. What’s that get me? A few more bucks i can spend at the mall?

    I f*cking can’t stand this moron!

  2. I posted this at the end of the last thread. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but you should go listen to Turdblossom:

    http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/must-watch-karl-rove-calls-nancy-pelosi-out-for-failure-of-financial-crisis-bill/

  3. G’morning RD!

  4. myiq: Of course he would say it’s Nancy’s fault. That was the whole point ot Republicans cornering the Democrats. The problem is they were so willing to get cornered.

  5. Aren’t either of these two jokers going to show even a smidgen of leadership here?

  6. RD, Nancy is the biggest bungler in the history of Speakers. Who the hell would bring something this controversial to a vote without having counted the votes? She may have just presided over a vote for the 1930’s. Nancy effed up here in monumental proportions. Why she thought the Repubs would vote for this thing to cover for Dem committee chairpeople is completely a mystery.

  7. RD:

    Turdblossom discusses which Democrats were allowed to vote “no” (including 5 committee chairs) and that the Democrats were announcing before the vote that they intended to use GOP “yes” votes against them in November.

  8. The Dems have not bee very good at counting votes this year.

  9. Nancy is at the top of the stink pile with Obama…and yet, we see Palin crucified? Unreal….

    And the local candidates…are they awake? I was taken aback when I met mine on Sunday….how little they know about what’s going on in the Democratic Party…and PUMA. Nice guys, but they need to know more…but, forsaken by the top of the ticket, they may not have time to find out…

    Local Candidates–Out There on Their Own, Unaware of PUMA Power

    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/local-candidates-out-there-on-their-own-unaware-of-puma-power/

  10. He sounds just like Bush. How manty times has Bush said the Congress needs to get it done. Obama already thinks he’s president. Remember when he said “when I was a senator”. Even in the Illinois Senate the work of legislating he couldn’t be bothered with. With a complicit media, Pelosi’s power and fat cat money funding him he aims to slide into home plate.

    He just has to raise enough doubts about McCain and Palin to do it.

    The 24/7 drumbeat about Palin “lack of qualifications”(I know don’t laugh at the absurd irony of that) and McCain as “erratic- code old” will drown out all his inadequacies most notably that he isn’t a leader.

    The pathetic thing about this is Hillary is the only one possessed of the serious concern for the welfare of Americans and she’s up in Michigan stumping for the guy who has destroyed the party she’s acting like still exists.

  11. Insight’s piece reminded me of an email I got from Obama campaign. They are asking for $15 for a yard sign. Can you believe that?

  12. Mawm:

    Tell them McCain will pay you to put one of his signs up, and see how they react.

  13. It’s interesting to see how far up the Dem food chain Pelosi is willing to go in order to help Barry. No longer content with mere delegate hides nailed to the barn door, she’s is now putting down ticket’s Dem asses on the block….perhaps her very leadership. If this is an example of “leadership” with a Barry POTUS, God help us.

  14. myiq: Do you have a link for 8:31 comment? I went to the hillbuzz post linked above, but didn’t find any names of Congresspeople.

  15. paper doll, it’s exactly what you’ll get, because Obama delegates. He is too post_fill_in_the_blank to get his hands dirty, so Pelosi and Reid are going to be the real leaders if he gets elected.

  16. I personally think Pelosi, Reid and Obama have made a deal:

    Pelosi and Reid get Obama elected. In exchange, Obama gives Pelosi and Reid what Hillary could never give them: two years as a puppet president to pass whatever measures *they* see fit, thus effectively abrogating the Constitutional separation of powers (Pelosi has been completely stung by public perception that Congress under her leadership is incapable of moving the country in *any* direction – a puppet president in her back pocket would fix that). After two two puppet presidential years, Obama will then be allowed to go off as Czar Obama to pursue his socialized agenda.

  17. Exactly Mawm….Barry will be King, above the fray. I believe the NYT praises him for this!! So Barry will be lead by people whose approval rating are below Bush’s?

  18. jules:

    It’s audio only, sorry.

  19. Here’s what I can’t stop thinking about. A couple of years ago, Hurricane Katrina destroyed New Orleans and other cities and towns on the gulf coast. The price of gas has skyrocketed. That has effected every one of us, not just the price of gas for our cars, but the price of food and other things we need every day. We will wil pay sky high prices to heat our homes this winter.

    None of that led to serious efforts by the President or Congress to help out struggling Americans. They just went right on lining their pockets, uncaring about how most Americans’ standards of living were going down down down.

    Now a crisis is hitting the rich and will affect the amount of money politicians can get from their rich backers. Suddenly it’s a major crisis that has to be solved now now NOW!

    I could give many examples of this behavior. Just one–when millions of American jobs went overseas, when millions lost their retirement while top executives got golden parachutes–what did they do?

    Let them bail me out, pay off my student loans and other debts–and do the same for other ordinary Americans. Then we’ll put our earnings back into the economy instead of paying high interest on debt. Okay, I know they are not really ever going to care about me or any other ordinary American. We need an FDR and all we have is a bunch of greedy a-holes who want to enrich themselves more on the backs of the already broken backs of the American people.

    That’s why I don’t give a sh*t about them.

  20. Lauraks, that’s the impression I get too. Obama already thinks he’s President. And if this is how he’ll behave if he gets the job then we’re all in deep trouble. It will be another 4 or 8 years of disasters added to the 8 terrible years Bush just gave us.

  21. finely, on September 30th, 2008 at 8:43 am

    Pelosi and Reid might get a surprise….I can’t think of any Barry deal where he sticks to it after he gets what he wants….isn’t Hill still waiting for campaign debt help?

  22. BB–You speak for me.

  23. I just read my Hillgram today. Not only did she get her legislation passed giving college students on college health plans care during a year’s leave of absence, she actually stumped for Obama and down-ticket three times last week. What is Obama doing? Has he introduced any legislation? Hillary did, even on the campaign trail, in Feb. 2008. Does he help down-ticket Dems? No. Hillary comes up with a radical, realistic solution to the crisis, which the American people like, but no one in Congress wants to hear it. Obama didn’t embrace it–too liberal, I guess. Might help working class white people (“crackers” in his terms–see autobiography #1). Pelosi always hated Hillary Clinton and for some reason finds it better to get backsies than to let Hillary solve this problem. Now that’s mature behavior…

  24. bostonboomer, on September 30th, 2008 at 8:49 am Said
    ……Now a crisis is hitting the rich and will affect the amount of money politicians can get from their rich backers. Suddenly it’s a major crisis that has to be solved now now NOW!

    Well said. You know I think they are in such a bubble that they really can’t tell how this looks…another example is , of course, UHC. Where was there ever an emergency meeting over that?….and as you say, there are many others.

  25. When Obama, the party’s new leader, learned of the plan’s rejection, he spoke about Washington almost as if he weren’t a member of Congress.

    that’s because he thinks he is already president. someone said yesterday that this was like the primary. they’re going to start screaming WWTSB(astard)Q, for the good of the country McCain should drop out before he ruins the economy.

  26. Someone named Joule is spamming old threads with a blogwhore post

  27. If they wanted the problem solved, Hillary would be there. But they just want money , so she’s not

  28. Thanks, myiq. Now could you please tell me who or what Turdblossom is?

    Donald Trump was speaking to Fox and Friends this a.m. He is not too worked up about this. He thinks that a bailout is not necessarily the way to go and that a correction may be we need to get oil prices back down. He also talked about how the bankers got higher commissions based on how much $ they lent out. He said that if a bailout prevents a huge loss in confidence, then it could be helpful in that regard. He had a great line about Bush: at least now he can go out as a “total failure”!

  29. garychapelhill, on September 30th, 2008 at 9:03 am

    Gary, you bet….I mean do we even NEED a vote??

  30. Turdblossom = Karl Rove

  31. And now Obama campaigns W stule – no opposition allowed – security, doncha know?
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/jrjr-first-amendment-zones-are-baack/

  32. Hillary was going to hold her nose and vote for this flawed bill(seriously her words)

  33. The voters aren’t stupid, and they understand sometimes you’re the windshield and sometimes you’re the bug.

    They would support a bailout that was fair, necessary, and didn’t reward the people that made the mess.

    But Congress tried to use the crisis to pass a bad bill, and both parties are trying to use the situation for political gain.

    I say fuck ’em all and let God sort ’em out.

  34. Hillary 29 september

    Crowley & Clinton Introduce Legislation to Offer Loan Forgiveness to Student Mentors

    Rewards Commitment to Public Service

    WASHINGTON, DC – Congressman Joe Crowley and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton introduced new legislation to offer loan forgiveness to college students who volunteer to serve as mentors for at-risk children. The Supporting Mentors, Supporting Our Youth Act would forgive $10 of student loans for every hour of mentoring with a minimum commitment of one year of service.

    “We know that there are so many benefits of mentoring for at-risk children, yet it is not always easy to recruit and retain quality mentors,” said Congressman Crowley. “By creating an incentive for college students to become mentors to at-risk children, we are not only helping these students afford a college education, but we are also benefitting those at-risk children whose lives will be forever improved by their relationship with a mentor. I am proud that Senator Clinton and I have created such a win-win proposal.”

    “A good mentor can make all the difference in the world, serving as friend, role-model and advocate for children who need it most. We should be rewarding those young people who commit to public service, including mentoring at-risk children, and offering incentives to encourage wider participation. September 27th was the National Day of Action and I could not think of a better way of supporting the thousands of communities who mobilized across the country then by introducing this legislation to encourage more people to serve. This legislation will give a little back to those who already give so much themselves,” Senator Clinton said.

  35. Here’s a comment I posted at TL (I still go there to the neutral threads):

    It’s a complete leadership vacuum.
    Bush is a dead duck walking.
    Pelosi was looking shell-shocked yesterday. The two Presidential candidates are supposed to be their party leaders but they are both proving irrelevant.
    Not to be cantankerous, but I imagine if Hillary (or let’s say Romney or Bloomberg) were the candidates they would be driving their party.

    I wonder if I will get smacked for criticizing The One and bringing up Hillary in the same comment.

  36. chimera,

    I’m not sure Obama has ever introduced any legislation on his own. He mostly has just signed on to bills that someone else did all the work on.

  37. Good news from Hillary 29 september

    Clinton Welcomes Senate Reauthorization of the Appalachian Regional Commission

    Washington, DC – Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton welcomed Senate reauthorization of the Appalachian Regional Commission through 2012, which she had helped push for as a member of the Senate Environmental and Public Works Committee (EPW). In addition to reauthorizing the program, the Appalachian Redevelopment Act Amendments of 2008 authorizes $510 million in funding through Fiscal Year 2012 and creates an Economic and Energy Development Initiative to promote energy efficiency, increase the use of renewable energy resources, and develop conventional energy resources to produce heat and energy while reducing greenhouse emissions.


    “The ARC is a critical resource for economic development across the Southern Tier and this reauthorization is great news for the entire region. This program has helped promote job creation and an improved standard of living in many New York communities, and I will continue to champion the ARC and fight to ensure that the program is fully funded,” said Senator Clinton.

    The ARC provides communities in the Appalachian Region with tools to help bolster businesses and spur local economic development. The reauthorization continues all existing ARC general programs, including the special program in telecommunications and technology, which Senator Clinton has fought to fully fund.

    This bill also includes provisions to annually designate counties as “at risk,” and allows the ARC to fund projects in at risk counties at up to 70 percent of the cost of the project, up from 50 percent under current law.

    Senator Clinton has worked to support the ARC. In addition to introducing legislation last year to reauthorize the commission, Senator Clinton has urged the EPW Subcommittee on Energy and Water Development to maintain full funding for the program for FY 2008 and FY 2009.

    Created by Congress in 1965, the ARC is a partnership between governors of 13 states, a federal representative and a grassroots network of local elected officials, and community and business leaders. The Appalacian Region includes several counties in New York’s Southern Tier, including Allegany, Broome, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Chemung, Chenango, Cortland, Delaware, Otsego, Schoharie, Schuyler, Steuben, Tioga, and Tompkins.

    http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=303875&&

  38. I am waiting for McCain to announce that he is for Hillary’s plan. I emailed him that suggestion yesterday. Then McCain would be FDR and the whole world would be turned upside down. Otherwise we have BONWO (Barack Obama’s New World Order). It’s worse than ACORN.

  39. myiq2xu, on September 30th, 2008 at 9:09 am Said:
    Turdblossom = Karl Rove

    LOL! And all this time I thought he/she was a blogger! Thanks for clueing me in.

  40. myiq, vastleft at koolente basically reprinted your money quote post verbatim. I wonder if they’ll let you comment on it.

  41. Hillary introduces new legislation 29 september

    Clinton Introduces Legislation Requiring Country of Origin Labels for Dairy Products

    Joins Colleagues in Calling for Other Improvements to USDA’s Flawed Labeling Implementation

    WASHINGTON, DC – Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) today introduced legislation to extend mandatory Country of Origin Labeling (COOL) to dairy products, providing consumers with information they need to avoid potentially dangerous products and helping American dairy farmers stand out in a crowded marketplace. Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI), who like Senator Clinton represents a strong dairy state, backed the legislation as an original cosponsor. Both senators also joined a bipartisan coalition of their colleagues in urging the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) to correct serious flaws in its COOL regulations governing a wide range of foods.


    “With one tainted foreign food scare after another, consumers deserve to know exactly where their food is coming from. The recent concerns raised about contamination of milk products internationally is a clear reminder that it is critical to include dairy products in our country of origin labeling rules,” Senator Clinton said. “I am proud of New York dairy farmers’ hard work and terrific products. When the world drinks our milk or eats our cheese, I want them to know it they’re getting a taste of New York and America’s best.”

    “Consumers choose Wisconsin-made dairy products because they expect the highest quality product,” Senator Feingold said. “Truth in labeling is critical and the recent news of contaminated Chinese dairy products and the radically different safety and enforcement standards in China are clear examples why. While the FDA needs to do more to keep contaminated products out, consumers should have the ability to look for and choose dairy products made with milk produced by hard-working American dairy farmers as a sign of quality and to provide peace of mind.”

    http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=303874&&

  42. jules, that is GWB’s nickname for him. If that’s what his friends call him, he must be an asshole.

  43. Gary:

    I saw that. I have no issues with Vastleft.

    I had no issues with Lambert either until he banned me. When he sticks to blogging I generally agree with him.

    Actually I got the tip on that post from makana44 in the comments at Corrente

  44. Pelosi lost this thing on purpose in an effort to help BO.

    What scum.

  45. I just left a message for my congresswoman Gillibrand (D-NY) expressing my disappointment for her No vote. I asked her to work for a solution that she can vote for since voting against a solution next time is not an option.

  46. OldCoastie – How is it going to help Obama?

  47. Pelosi is a failed leader and she needs to resign her post. As should the majority whip….guess who? mr. slimeball pocketliner himself, jim cleyburn. Isn’t it his job to make sure they have the votes before bringing it to the floor? and then the Cong. black caucus votes against it??? this smells so fucking rotten I need a gas mask. And Nancy hasn’t been able to pass a single bill in 2 years. they both need to go. NOW. and as leader of the party Obama should be calling for both of their heads.

  48. OldCoastie, I think the general wisdom is that Obama will benifit from chaos in the economy, but I am not so sure. We have a month left to go, and I’m not sure people are feeling very good about Obama’s leadership. I think Obama campaign may be overplaying their hand here.

  49. The media keep repeating the meme that this whole fiasco helps Obama.

    I still haven’t seen an explanation that makes sense.

  50. He didn’t say how he might lead or what role he’d play. “Step up to the plate,” he told Congress. “Get it done.

    Step up to the plate? When has he EVER done that? He is such an a*s.

    One thing I don’t understand: if this bill is so unpopular–I read that Congressional offices are being flooded with calls protesting it–then why is it seeming to benefit the Democrats politically? It makes no sense. Nancy Pelosi looked like a complete idiot yesterday, spitting in the face of the Republicans, right before the vote.

  51. dow is already up 120 pts.

  52. I think it is really important to take a look at the Dems who did not support the bailout bill: The entire Black Caucus, 5 Dem committee chairs, several Pelosi allies from CA and chairing sub-committees. Karl Rove’s point was that all of those Dem defections sent a huge message to Republicans and the message was political war. The big question to me is, why did Pelosi appear to be supporting this legislation and leading for its passage at the same time that she was undermining it? Was she setting up markers to give cover to Dem support with the idea that it would pass anyway? Was she deliberately sabotaging the outcome to set the stage for tarring Repub. with total economic failure? Is the Pelosi/Obama campaign predicting a landslide because they see in this economic meltdown a huge political opportunity that they think will bury McCain and the Republicans with the fruits of Bush rule?

  53. OldCoastie, on September 30th, 2008 at 9:21 am Said:
    Pelosi lost this thing on purpose in an effort to help BO.

    and I can see her saying ACORN has to go back in or the Dems won’t vote yes…..But if she keeps this up, people will start blaming Barry, not just the GOP ,

  54. The media keep repeating the meme that this whole fiasco helps Obama.

    Any time a sparrow flies, or the rain falls, it helps Obama. At least according to the media.

  55. Mawm, I agree that there’s some game playing going on–at least with the Dem “leadership”. This is pretty much what they did with Iraq, IMO–kept funding the war in hopes that it would still be a political issue for the presidential race. They hoped that after two years of doing nothing that voters would still trust the Dems to get us out of Iraq. Instead, most voters think the Dems are just as incompetent as the Repubs on the Iraq issue. There’s no real leadership in the “leadership”. They’ll do anything to hold on to their corporate sponsorship in order to have enough money to remain an incumbent.

  56. I saw a comment yesterday that finally helped me to understand what is behind all the damage to Palin. Tom Hayden, that old Dem. radical from long, long ago, has stated on his blog that Palin is kryptonite and must be destroyed because if she can solidify the Repub. base for Obama and bring 2% of women/disaffected voters to McCain without losing independent supporters, Obama will not be able to win. Thus taking her out is an absolute necessity to an Obama victory. It explained a lot to me.

  57. Jangles, on September 30th, 2008 at 9:30 am

    so it was Barry’s and Nancey’s closest allies that were let off the hook and voted no ? How interesting

  58. Jangles, do you have a link to Hayden’s blog? That sounds very interesting.

  59. Obama: “Step up to the plate,” he told Congress. “Get it done.
    Yeah, Obama thinks Congress will do anything he says. LOL.

  60. Big Pimpin’ Democrat is “Looking for a New FDR”

    Dumbass! She was right in front of him, but he supported Teh Precious instead.

    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/9/30/997/05819

  61. grayslady: Agree with all your points; it is also why impeachment was off the table. Impeach Bush and Cheney and what do you have left to run against—Nancy Pelosi next in line? Or whoever they appoint to be VP? Who in the impeachment of the president would become the new Pres (ala Gerry Ford).

  62. Jangles, on September 30th, 2008 at 9:30 am Said:

    I have the same questions, Jangles. Ever since I read WMCB’s post last night about Newt’s take on what happened last Wed-Thursday, I’ve been trying to figure out what the hell Pelosi has had up her sleeve. Did they think the 1st bill would pass as is, then got pissed when McCain had some criticism of it, so then planned to sabotage it and lay blame on Republicans? Or did she really so stupidly think that she could let her Dems cover their ass*s while the Repubs stuck all their necks out and voted yes? Is it duplicity or stupidity? That’s what I can’t figure out.

  63. Hi!

    This isn’t really about Nancy Pelosi, but I wanted to get this out to somebody. Look at these two articles. This is really weird.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/patchworknation/csmstaff/2008/0930/dump-palin/

    and

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/09/biden-palin-oba.html

    What’s going on here? I’m confused. Or is it that the MSM is just going through meltdown.

  64. BTD wants to make a silk purse from a hog’s ear.

  65. why is it ok that mark Udall, who is supposed to be helping colorado turn blue and get obama elected, voted no on the bailout? I mean Obama is blaming mccain, but these are some of his closest allies.

  66. I saw the post/quote re: Hayden on No Quarter yesterday. I didn’t copy it but it should still be there. The title of the blog is something progressive.

    Also note: 12 Dems on Barney Frank’s committee voted against the bailout yesterday. Makes you wonder about Frank’s posturing and bloviating.

    Hannity last night ran the video clips of the Dem. members of Frank’s committee as they denounced the idea that Reins and Fannie/Freddie needed to be reined in.

  67. john conyers voted against it?

  68. Jangles, yes, yes, yes

  69. down now up over 200 pts.

  70. garych, a lot of “progressive” Dems voted against the bill. See Dennis Kucinich’s interview with Amy Goodman from yesterday at Democracy Now. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, in the bill to help the individual consumer. Conyers, Kucinich and others are in areas of the country that have been particularly hit by foreclosures. How do you go back home and tell your constituents that there’s nothing in it for them unless they own a stock portfolio? I think that’s what people like Conyers, Pete Stark, Kucinich and others were thinking.

  71. grayslady, I understand that, but doesn’t it demonstrate the total inability for Obama to lead?these are people that supported him 100% and threatened anyone else who didn’t.

  72. great post RD!

    I am waiting for my ballot here in VA. I am goign to early vote, along with all my friends voting McPalin.

    I am so so tired of another Bush-like moron talking.

    And now I hear he is using MO state officials to threaten people with arrest if they say things like the fraud will “raise taxes”.

    I am a first generation american, they do things like this in my country of birth. If you speak out agn a govt official too much, you get a visit at work telling you to knock it off, if you continue, your job may be on the line, and if you continue even further, you may be house arrested.

    Why did my family and I come here, if this gestapo, communist like tactics are going to be used here?

    I already feel it here, I am a minority, and already called a racist b/c I supported Hillary, and now McPalin. My mom was polled by gallup and DNC and she lied that she is indeed voting for that fraud, why? b/c the DNC has her address, and so she lied and said yes she is voting for that fraud (she is a dem voting McPalin in reality)

    If this is what the country is headed towards, my friends and family who are still trying to come to this country to become citizens here, they might just stay in their country now. Why bother coming here?

  73. BTD is beyond putting lipstick on a pig at this point. He is slathering on the full stage makeup with a damn trowel, and his candidate is still as ugly as ever.

    If he wanted an FDR, he should have fucking supported her in the primary.

  74. Dems who voted No:

    Jesse Jackson Jr
    Sheila jackson-Lee
    Bobby Rush
    William Jefferson
    Loretta Sanchez
    Linda Sanchez
    Nancy Boyda
    Dennis Kucinich
    Heath Shuler
    Carol Shea-Porter
    Lynn Woolsey
    John Lewis

    There’s more:

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

  75. after watching the doom and gloom on this mornings talk shows… my girl penned the following (she is so succinct!)

    I don’t know why newcasters keepusing sentences like “The American people want…blah, blah, blah” as though “we” are some amorphous being. We’re right here, in the house next door, the office across the street, sitting on the bus beside you.

    “We” the American people didn’t want this bill because it did the same thing as all of the other bills-reward those at the top for a job poorly done, and screwed those in the middle, obliterated those at the bottom!

    When manufacturing started to disappear, we cried out – “Help us!” and you, the government did nothing.

    When housing costs climbed to the ridiculous, we cried out – “Help us!” and you did nothing.

    When, as oil rose to such highs we struggled to get to work, we cried out, “Help us”! and you did nothing.

    Now, you’re sitting in the middle of the crashed mess that you created and are asking us for help??

    GET REAL

  76. I saw that myiq, and they’re not all freshman who fear for their seats either. Although unpopular in their districts, some of these people could have taken the hit for the team. the Sanchez’ for example. they’re not facing serious oppo are they? Pelosi and Clyburn are failed leaders.

  77. I’m sorry but the CBC have the safest seats in the house on this issue. They could have voted for it and told their constituents whatever they wanted. However, Pelosi wanted to have her cake and eat it too. If you look at who on the Dem side voted no, it is obvious that Pelosi was going to use passage of this as a weapon. The poor lowly CBC who represent the poor lower income minorities just had to vote no against the evil Republicans bailing out their fat cat friends on Wall St. This is total class warfare going on.
    Dems totally F up Fannie Mae and cause a banking crisis and then attempt to spin it into political gold by tarring the Reps with their corruption. Victim is a roll the CBC knows how to play all too well.

  78. Obviously, more is at stake for Pelosi here than just “political face”. The lengths that she has gone to in order to promote her protege has ventured way beyond ethical. She is so willing to make sure BO attains the crown that she has sold whatever is left of her soul, at the expense of every single Dem who did not vote in favor of this bill. The phrase “in bed together” could not be more apt. Hillary would have never played footsie under the table with anybody this obviously corrupt. Hence her demise at the hands of Pelosi.

  79. The way it looks to me is that Nancy Pelosi gave her closest allies permission to vote against the bill. Enough Republicans were on board to vote for it thanks to Boehner’s efforts, and she wanted to pass the bill with bipartisan support. Then later, she could blame the Republicans for the fallout.

    But then she gave her little snotty speech attacking Repubs for not coming to a meeting they didn’t even know about. Twelve Republicans switched to no votes again. Some blue dog Dems might have switched too when they saw which way the wind was blowing.

    I don’t know if Nancy deliberately sabotaged the bill or if she blew it with her speech.

  80. Irlandese,

    The funny part is that Obama will throw Nancy under the bus at the drop of a hat if it serves his purposes. They deserve each other. Obama already stabbed Reid in the back, but apparently that wasn’t enough for Reid to wake up and smell the coffee.

  81. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/housing

    Shiller, credited with the phrase, irrational exhuberance, talked back in July about WHY we were going to get here.
    —————————————————-
    We recently lived through two epidemics of excessive financial optimism. I believe that we are close to a third epidemic, only this one would spread irrational pessimism and mistrust—not exuberance. If that happens, our economic problems will become much worse than they need to be, and our social problems will multiply. Only if we heed the lessons of the boom can we keep the bust from causing lasting damage.

  82. Gary,

    I think Steny Hoyer is the one who is really running things in the House. Nancy basically lets him control everything.

  83. Usually once a week, I have to work my hiney off and today is the day, so I won’t be around much, therefore I must rant.

    This spin in the media is really pissing me off. This failed because of fucking democrats, plain and simple. Yet the MSM is blaming republicans, will this crap ever stop?

    Obama needs to remember which freaking party he is a member of and get with the damn program. To allow this bill not to pass and to use it for political purposes, just reeks. People are losing their homes due to W’s buddies lining their damn pockets and now the dems want to get in on some of the action while people lose their retirement and savings. WTF is in the minds of these people and I mean ALL of them?

    Bunch of fucking idiots.

    Now I have to go back to work.

  84. paper doll, on September 30th, 2008 at 9:36 am Said:

    Jangles, on September 30th, 2008 at 9:30 am

    so it was Barry’s and Nancey’s closest allies that were let off the hook and voted no ? How interesting
    ——————————–

    Maybe it was all planned. Nancy must have known that the bill wouldn’t pass. What kind of game are Obama and Nancy playing?

  85. Could it be that Pelois does want the bill to pass but Obama doesn’t? (because the turmoil favors him)
    Maybe the CBC voting no IS him stabbing her in the back?

  86. gary, two of the Dem House members who voted nay are leaving the House and running for the Senate.

    Nancy tried to play politics with this bill. She tried to save her own by letting them vote “NO” on a bill very unpopular with the public, while making it very obvious on the floor that she was going to aggressively use it against any Repub who voted for it. Then she cried “foul” when the Repubs balked at cooperating with her scheme to hang this bill around their necks.

    She has completely lost whatever credibility she had. She had no interest in whether it passed or it didn’t pass – only whether it would be politically beneficial to Obama and downticket dems. She maneuvered to make sure Dems could not take the blame, then screamed “Partisan politics! Selfish bastards!” when the Repubs saw what she was doing, and refused to take the blame either. Avoiding blame is fine for her pals, but it’s a mortal sin when the other party does it.

  87. BB-precisely. No wonder she looks like she’s ready to blow away in the wind. He knows where the skeletons are, and has proven adept at his boughten media teflon abilities. She’s in too deep now. He has to win or she’s not just going to lose her seat, but quite possibly everything. Couldn’t happen to a nicer vulture.

  88. The Dems were determined that they would get 100% of any credit and the GOP would get 100% of any blame.

    Is it any wonder the Republicans didn’t want to play along?

  89. Nancy allowed certain dems to vote no to save their seat. It was all political.

  90. Kaptur voted AGAINST this bailout. If you missed her on CSPAN this morning…I’d suggest a search on her is important! and informative
    http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=9085931

    Marcy Kaptur warns “there are domestic enemies to the Republic”

    Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-OH) warns the American people about Constitutional enemies of the Republic and the fraudulent trillion(s) dollar bailout…

    “My message to the American people don’t let Congress seal this deal. High financial crimes have been committed.”

    “The normal legislative process has been shelved. Only a few insiders are doing the dealing, sounds like insider trading to me. These criminals have so much political power than can shut down the normal legislative process of the highest law making body of this land.”

    “We are Constitutionally sworn to protect and defend this Republic against all enemies foreign and domestic. And my friends there are enemies.”

    “The people pushing this deal are the very ones who are responsible for the implosion on Wall Street. They were fraudulent then and they are fraudulent now.”

    That is an elected congresswoman talking, not me. If you are in favor of this bailout and are pushing for the bailout, you are officially a traitor to the United States of America.

  91. votermom,

    Obama wanted the bill to pass. That goes without saying. He has taken more money from Goldman Sachs and the other investment banks than any candidate, including Hillary. He is their man. He has been using their talking points. That is documented. Why do you think he is on the phone to Paulson all the time? Paulson came from Goldman Sachs, you know.

    Obama was surprised the bill didn’t pass, which makes me think Nancy was taken by surprise too. I’ll bet she got an earful from The Precious about it.

  92. I’m having construction done on my house. This morning I got to talking with the crew. To a man they are all happy the bill failed (5 guys). They don’t want to bail out Wall Street and they think the Dems are pushing this on them. So the MSM meme about this helping the Dems may not be accurate. when it is actually on the street.

  93. Obama wanted the bill to pass, but he didn’t want to take any responsibility or blame.

    Leaders lead

  94. Big Pimpin’ Democrat has a post up that says voters hated the bill but wanted it to pass.

    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/9/30/83936/3938

    I think it’s more accurate to say that voters want the problem fixed, but didn’t like that particular solution

  95. I miss LATimes political cartoonist Paul Conrad. I wonder what he’d be making of this unholy alliance.

  96. Gary: Jesse Jackson Jr. voted NO. So did several other allies of Obama from IL. This whole thing stinks of hypocrisy.

  97. Maybe Pelosi saw that there was a danger that the bill would pass w/o real republican support and pulled back her people to vote against it. She was playing a game all we all are in this together or we all hang together. Who knows what evil lurks in her head. Myiq- I loved your earlier post (while I was sleeping for the both of us) on O’s switch from loving the R’s vision to know trying to make himself out to be Mr. Progressive. I hate him more every day.

  98. I wish the rest of the lefty blogosphere would stop pimping Obama and start arguing for America like we do. (We are not alone but we are a minority)

    I’m sick of everything being spun to help Teh Precious.

  99. Must read:

    “Rather than bailing out Wall Street, we propose that the government should buy up the actual mortgages in question and do nothing else.”

    http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1845209,00.html?cnn=yes

    Don’t hold your breath, it makes too much sense.

  100. TheRealKim, on September 30th, 2008 at 10:10 am Said:

    Obama needs to remember which freaking party he is a member of and get with the damn program. To allow this bill not to pass and to use it for political purposes, just reeks. People are losing their homes due to W’s buddies lining their damn pockets and now the dems want to get in on some of the action while people lose their retirement and savings. WTF is in the minds of these people and I mean ALL of them?
    ————————-

    He needs to wear a button that has the words: “You are a Democrat” on it.

    bostonboomer – I don’t think he wanted it passed. Jesse Jackson jr. bullied too many African American superdelegates to support Obama. If Obama wanted it, he would have voted for it. Maybe it was Obama backstabbing Nancy.

  101. Nancy Pelosi sounds more and more like Eleanor Iselin in The Manchurian Candidate.

  102. Someone Link this if you can. It pretty well sums it up!

    September 30, 2008
    ACORN, Obama, and the Mortgage Mess
    By Mona Charen

    The financial markets were teetering on the edge of an abyss last week. The secretary of the Treasury was literally on his knees begging the speaker of the House not to sabotage the bailout bill. The crash of falling banks made the earth tremble. The Republican presidential candidate suspended his campaign to deal with the crisis. And amid all this, the Democrats in Congress managed to find time to slip language into the bailout legislation that would provide a dandy little slush fund for ACORN.

    ACORN stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, a busy hive of left-wing agitation and “direct action” that claims chapters in 50 cities and 100,000 dues-paying members. ACORN is where Sixties leftovers who couldn’t get tenure at universities wound up. That the bill-writing Democrats remembered their pet clients during such an emergency speaks volumes. This attempted gift to ACORN (stripped out of the bill after outraged howls from Republicans) demonstrates how little Democrats understand about what caused the mess we’re in.

    ACORN does many things under the umbrella of “community organizing.” They agitate for higher minimum wages, attempt to thwart school reform, try to unionize welfare workers (that is, those welfare recipients who are obliged to work in exchange for benefits) and organize voter registration efforts (always for Democrats, of course). Because they are on the side of righteousness and justice, they aren’t especially fastidious about their methods. In 2006, for example, ACORN registered 1,800 new voters in Washington. The only trouble was, with the exception of six, all of the names submitted were fake. The secretary of state called it the “worst case of election fraud in our state’s history.” As Fox News reported:

    “The ACORN workers told state investigators that they went to the Seattle public library, sat at a table and filled out the voter registration forms. They made up names, addresses, and Social Security numbers and in some cases plucked names from the phone book. One worker said it was a lot of hard work making up all those names and another said he would sit at home, smoke marijuana and fill out the forms.”

    ACORN explained that this was an “isolated” incident, yet similar stories have been reported in Missouri, Michigan, Ohio, and Colorado — all swing states, by the way. ACORN members have been prosecuted for voter fraud in a number of states. (See http://www.rottenacorn.com.) Their philosophy seems to be that everyone deserves the right to vote, whether legal or illegal, living or dead.

    ACORN recognized very early the opportunity presented by the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) of 1977. As Stanley Kurtz has reported, ACORN proudly touted “affirmative action” lending and pressured banks to make subprime loans. Madeline Talbott, a Chicago ACORN leader, boasted of “dragging banks kicking and screaming” into dubious loans. And, as Sol Stern reported in City Journal, ACORN also found a remunerative niche as an “advisor” to banks seeking regulatory approval. “Thus we have J.P. Morgan & Co., the legatee of the man who once symbolized for many all that was supposedly evil about American capitalism, suddenly donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to ACORN.” Is this a great country or what? As conservative community activist Robert Woodson put it, “The same corporations that pay ransom to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton pay ransom to ACORN.”

    ACORN attracted Barack Obama in his youthful community organizing days. Madeline Talbott hired him to train her staff — the very people who would later descend on Chicago’s banks as CRA shakedown artists. The Democratic nominee later funneled money to the group through the Woods Fund, on whose board he sat, and through the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, ditto. Obama was not just sympathetic — he was an ACORN fellow traveler.

    Now you could make the case that before 2008, well-intentioned people were simply unaware of what their agitation on behalf of non-credit-worthy borrowers could lead to. But now? With the whole financial world and possibly the world economy trembling and cracking like a cement building in an earthquake, Democrats continue to try to fund their friends at ACORN? And, unashamed, they then trot out to the TV cameras to declare “the party is over” for Wall Street (Nancy Pelosi)? The party should be over for the Democrats who brought us to this pass. If Obama wins, it means hiring an arsonist to fight a fire.

  103. just a thought but I think this scam the bots in the house pulled have to do with voters,there are tring to steal the mature vote away from mccain,heres how unless you have money in the market what happened yesterday doesn’t effect the everyday american,,,the problem is peoples 401’s & IRA’s got a hit yesterday,younger people will be able to recope any loss they got but the older people and people about to retire can’t aford this hit..they need a bailout that can stop the bleeding..the bots in the house r making it look like they wanted this bill if it would have pass it would have saved the losses the 401’s took,,their tring to steal the mature vote…

  104. Downticket,

    Well, I just disagree. Obama wanted the bill to pass in such a way that the Republicans would be help responsible. And they didn’t fall for it. Of course Obama wants to bail out his pals on Wall Street. What else are they paying him for but to give them what the want?

  105. Anglachel thinks Pelsosi is risking losing her majority in the house in order to get this bill passed for Obama:

    http://anglachelg.blogspot.com/

    Anglachel:

    It is more than the Republicans playing Lucy and yanking away the football from the hapless Democrats. It is that the Democratic leadership has willingly walked into a situation where cooperation means cooptation and where the populace is united in opposition to the proposed plan. They have cavalierly placed their downticket people at risk to avoid offending the Village rather than driving a real bargain (including delay of everything possbile until Hank has cleaned out his desk and departed in January) that would rebound to the Dems election efforts. Oh, and actually do some good for us peons.

    The irony that the Dem majority may be maintained because of the recalcitrance of some whacko Republicans would be funny if it were not such an indictment of the ineffective and demoralizing behavior of our so-called leadership, right up to the guy at the top who doesn’t even want to be a Democrat.

  106. hugs first RD & Co.

    RD — this is the scoop o the century — after I have acorn, unpacked a little — RD send Dems to read Uppity because, the roots of this may be deeper than any of us realize….not funny…and a big hug to the best people in the world — around here….

    http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/2008/09/29/and-now-for-some-greed-on-the-other-side-of-the-blame-fence/

  107. http://moralscienceclub.blogspot.com/2008/09/congresswoman-kaptur-on-this-weeks.html
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=826_1222705333

    She does a great job of articulating that “smell” many of us have recognized coming from the Congress!

    This woman makes sense!
    ——————————————–
    Marcy Kaptur warns “there are domestic enemies to the Republic”

    Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-OH) warns the American people about Constitutional enemies of the Republic and the fraudulent trillion(s) dollar bailout…

    “My message to the American people don’t let Congress seal this deal. High financial crimes have been committed.”

    “The normal legislative process has been shelved. Only a few insiders are doing the dealing, sounds like insider trading to me. These criminals have so much political power than can shut down the normal legislative process of the highest law making body of this land.”

    “We are Constitutionally sworn to protect and defend this Republic against all enemies foreign and domestic. And my friends there are enemies.”

    “The people pushing this deal are the very ones who are responsible for the implosion on Wall Street. They were fraudulent then and they are fraudulent now.”

  108. I am ignorant about Congress’ schedule. How long, in practical terms, can they sit on this bill? Can they vote on it after Nov 4? (I’m guessing they’d do that if they could)

  109. Well you can rip on Obama all you want but right now in my sleep deprived state I think I can see your future threads.

    Threads slamming President Obama.

    Threads about the successful destruction of Sarah Palin.

    As for the bailout. It’s going to get passed eventually. Paulson will have fun shopping with our money. It won’t fix the problem…for very long anyway.

    As for buying up the actual bad mortgages. Won’t work. The stinking mortgages are all wrapped up into packages with good mortgages. Wall Street hocus pocus so nobody really knows which mortgages are good or bad. That’s the whole problem.

  110. Is the sky still falling or are rich people(or at least rich enough to have money to gamble on the stock market)betting that the government will still save their backsides at the expense of the rest of us? I hear the dow is up almost 300.

  111. votermom
    right now there is no bill at all the bill got killed yesterday now they have to write another one…who knows how long that could that,,but the house doesn’t even come back till thur.

  112. Marsha, yes. I heard GOP Sen. Arlen Specter (voted no) saying that in his opinion a new bill should be drafted using proper legislative process which means weeks or more.

  113. fox news or the onion? I report, you decide:

    Report: Elisabeth Hasselbeck ‘Really Upset’ With ‘View’ Co-Hosts

    Elisabeth Hasselbeck is ”really upset” with her “View” co-hosts Whoopi Goldberg and Joy Behar about the presidential election, a longtime staff member of the show reportedly told the Chicago Sun-Times.

  114. vbonnaire,

    I just don’t buy that Obama is a socialist. Sorry, but why would the kind of people who are backing him financial back a socialist. He is a privatizer, and that’s what they are hoping will bail them out of their greed-induced problems.

  115. we the prople don’t count they forgot they work for us, and for the good of this country!!!sad so sad

  116. The Senate hasn’t voted on the bill yet. How could Arlen Spector have voted no?

  117. marsha,

    If the country is really on the brink of financial ruin, please tell me why the Congress would be taking two days off?

  118. Sorry, BB, I didn’t have coffee. I meant that Specter opposes the current bill.
    I’ll see if there’s a link.

  119. I’m sure Spector does oppose the bill, as does anyone who is actually thinking about the good of our country. There is no way throwing a trillion dollars (and it will end up being more) in the lap of Wall Street with essentially no oversight is a good thing for the United States. I have nieces and nephews whose grandchildren will still be paying for the Iraq war decades from now. Now they’ll have to pay for this too? No thank you.

    Write a better bill and vote on it after November 5.

  120. myiq2xu, on September 30th, 2008 at 9:56 am wrote:
    “[…]There’s more:

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

    I am officially confused. WTF? From the vote tally page:

    “BILL TITLE: To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide earnings assistance and tax relief to members of the uniformed services, volunteer firefighters, and Peace Corps volunteers, and for other purposes”

    Is this really the correct bill title? Is this bill supposed to invisible to people who want to read the unvarnished text? Or is this not the correct link?

  121. typical republican:

    are you mad at dems voting for McPalin?

    or are you mad at that fraud?

  122. typical Republican

    You need to chide some in your own party. Sarah Palin’s dissing is coming from your side of the aisle. Frankly, I have worn myself to the bone to defend her. I explained that if you live next door to foreign nation’s then YES, it is in your interest to be knowledgable about them, for the safety of your constituency. I’ve asked what the so called “expertise” of folks like Cheney and Rumsfeld of wrought. I’ve pointed out the gotcha the media plays. I’ve given the legislation feminists for life helped craft. I don’t know what else I can do if you can’t shut up the Kathleen Parker’s in your own party.

    The question for us isn’t whether a bailout will be passed, for us it is a matter of HOW the bailout is passed. Contrary to popular belief, not all Democrats, just want to blindly throw money at problems. We want some experts in Congress giving us numbers and giving us their summation of what they think needs to happen and what will happen. We don’t just want a bunch of politicians pontificating. Taxes are a responsibility and a matter of public trust. They shouldn’t just be spent willy nilly, they are meant ot be spent to benefit the country.

    It also might help if your own party gave McCain credit where it is due and helped push back. The guy wanted to help in DC. Why aren’t any of your blowhards pointing out that he wanted to lead and Pelosi basically told him to get out of dodge? Why aren’t they defending him when the punditry basically puts this on HIS shoulders? I know your side has brilliant BS artists. Why aren’t THEY being trotted out for airtime?

    We are a minority in our own party, if you want Barack beat then you guys are going to have to work with us instead of chiding.

  123. sometimes I wonder how this country can even function when we can’t remember more than a couple days ago…

    remember when hillary was still in the race and all the pundits were saying that tecnically we weren’t in a recession because you need at least two quarters of neg. growth and that everything would be ok, even though economists were screaming that we had already been in a recession for months? I wonder why the media poo pooed it then (hint, Hillary is stronger on the economy than obozo). Now they act like nobody knew that any of this was coming before last thursday. Our media is criminal.

  124. Yup, bostonboomer. If it’s a crisis of mega proportions, why are they on recess?
    I’ve worked plenty of jobs where I had to pull many days and many hours in an emergency, and you suck it up and do it.

    Methinks that their behavior belies their cries of panic. It may or may not be as epic a doomsday as they are saying, but one thing is for certain – THEY evidently don’t believe it.

  125. Sorry, can’t find a link. Anyway, Sen. Specter also said there ought to be congressional hearing questioning Paulson & Bernanke.

  126. bostonboomer,,I’m didn’t hear the spector thing but the house killed the bill senate doesn’t have a bill in front of them now,,maybe spector was refering to how long it could take to come up with new bill and that he would not have voted for the bill that was..I don’t know it doesn’t matter what any of them say they all s–k!!!!hillary is the only one to come up with a plan to help us and these idiot won’t admit it cause if they did they wound have to admit those choose a idiot and F–ked us all in the process..

  127. There ought to be Congressional hearings. Criminey, we had more conversation on steroids then we did this “crisis” that is just bad enough to need billions but not bad enough for the Congressional leaders to not take their “holiday.”

  128. CWaltz:

    thank you! you said exactly what I was feeling..

  129. bostonboomer–I don’t think we r in a state of ruin,,I said I think it’s part of there bs,,it’s a big scam they could do a million thing to help they could bail out the everyday joe free him up so he can afford to put gas in his car to even get to work put money in our pockets we now how to spend it where it would help not only are familys but the banks…

  130. Calm Returns to the Market

    U.S. stocks bounce back after Monday’s plunge

    By Kate Gibson, MarketWatch
    Last update: 11:12 a.m. EDT Sept. 30, 2008

    http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-stocks-start-higher-bargain-hunters/story.aspx?guid=%7B571E298A%2D965E%2D4306%2DAA44%2D357B7706C390%7D

    + 240 right now and climbing

  131. Oh, just saw this — Buhs talked to Obama & McCain this morning about bailout.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE48T4YE20080930

    I wonder how much grovelling was done.

  132. myiq — I posted your line about the new FDR being right in front of us over in BTD’s thread — hope you don’t mind, but I’m not banned there (yet) and he needs to read it.

  133. I agree they should be at work,,they r off for a jewish holiday which would be fine but if the campaigns r out then it shows little respect for that holiday

  134. Ironman,

    Yep. There are still plenty of folks willing to gamble that the government will bail out the financial institutions. The stock market is the rich man’s lottery. Poor people buy scratchers and rich folks speculate on which businesses will succeed despite the odds.

  135. Well, the sun came up again today, and the sky looks to still be way up there still.

    Thankfully, the American people are saying “No!”…correction… “HELL NO!” to the boondoggle bailout Bill that would begin a new era of Corporate Welfare in America.

    And thank God we are!

    While there are still many out there that will buy into the spin from the MSM and Obama/Pelosi, etc., I think with each passing day. more Americans are coming to the conclusion that the likes of Pelosi and Obama have played politics with this and do not have the interests of the American people at heart.

    The more you peel back the onion of the Bailout plan, the more it reeks.

    To those financial companies/banks, etc., in need of $$$$ to remain in business, by all means, provide them some…but make them BORROW IT and pay it back in full!! In other words, LOANS-LOANS-LOANS that must be paid back!

    No. Corporate. Welfare.

  136. “Rather than bailing out Wall Street, we propose that the government should buy up the actual mortgages in question and do nothing else. The government should not touch any derivatives; that is, claims that do not directly tie into the actual mortgages. If money becomes too tight, then the Fed can certainly increase its loans to financial institutions. ”

    http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1845209,00.html?cnn=yes

  137. Typical Republican,

    If Obama is elected, you’re darn right I’ll be doing my best to push him to do the right thing. But it hasn’t happened yet, and you actually can’t see our future threads. If you have something constructive to say, say it. Otherwise go try to get McCain elected–or Obama if he’s your candidate.

  138. AngieNC,

    If this were a true emergency all bets would be off. Do you have any doubt that if there were an attack, even on Christmas, that Congress would be convened? The truth is that when they swore to uphold and defend the Constittution the made a vow to put country first. Ask the soldiers if all of them are able to take religious holidays off(and I was one so I know)? It simply doesn’t work that way.

  139. Speaker Pelosi is a lousy chess player.

  140. cal, I think Clue is more her game

    Nancy Pelosi stabbed the american people in the back in capitol with the bailout bill.

    did I win?

  141. Angie:

    Of course I don’t mind, especially when you smile like that!

  142. i say they can all go to hell

    the new dem party by brazillenut

  143. Nancy’s favorite game is San Francisco Poker

  144. You have a good point Ironman. Why couldn’t the government directly lend businesses money? The Fed could go all kamikaze on financial institutions and say that if they aren’t going to lend the Fed will lend directly?

  145. THEY WANT MAMA TO MAKE IT ALL BETTER! Rep Kaptur

    THIS WOMAN IS RIGHT ON! Watch Marcy break down the TRUE nature of this bailout in bold, clear terms

    (this may be a dup post…tried earlier, it might be in moderation)

  146. Chess? Why heavens, that is an UNCIVILIZED game! I wouldn’t dream of playing Chess, how bout a rousing game of Simon Says? I’ll be Simon (using my Nancy voice while donning my white gloves as Miss Manners dictates).

  147. sorry I don’t know why my name keeps coming up to that

  148. I’m thinking this bailout ($700 billion in freebies) was more of a scare tactic to try and steal more money from the American taxpayer to line the pockets of Wall Street.

    Robbing from Peter to pay Paul(son).

    If anyone in McCain’s campaign is reading this blog, I urge you all to come up with your own plan, seperate and aprt from that BS Bailout plan that thankfully got voted down, and roll it out with a major economic speech asap!

    The majority of Americans do NOT want a Corporate Welfare Bailout Check to be given to Wall Street. They want to see leadership in a time of crisis, and they want to see someone provide a real plan that addresses their concerns and helps get the economy back on track.

    I think it starts with American Energy Independence.

    Right now, America imports over 70% of our oil. That is killing us.

    Paulson said yesterday that they needed a new plan. I hope we see one soon, from McCain. God knows Obama is not going to come up with one. He is content to vote present on all of this for as long as he can.

    There is a window now for McCain to seize the moment. But that window will not be open for very long. Time is of the essence.

  149. or what about 3 card monty?

  150. Search

    Some do and Some don’t take that vow seriously. It is our job as citizens to weed out the don’ts. The blood of our soldiers who fought to give us these rights demand that we fulfill that responsibility.

  151. So, the wall Street crisis has clearly shown that capitalism has failed. Can we try socialism now?
    UHC! UHC! UHC!

  152. Or the full monty, which is one of my favorites

  153. Very thoughtful comment, CWAltz. Thanks for saying it so well.

  154. What we need in Washington DC is less hand-clapping and more head-slapping

  155. or Duck, Duck, Goose.

  156. cwalz–you r so right I have been saying that very thing for months it makes me sick when I think of the men and women who have givin there blood around the world so others could have free and HONEST election,,and look at us are very core as americans is being put to to test,,,but I beleive the good people in this country will see us through to a better day they always have…that’s why I say god bless america

  157. My point wasn’t that they should be at work. It was that if there were a real emergency, they wouldn’t take the time off. This is a ginned up effort to rob the taxpayers blind, destroy social security and end any chance of universal health care.

  158. I’m listening to NPR right now, and both the right wing nut Ben Stein and the left wing Columbia business prof agree that the bill stinks, we need actual regulation, and the fix is needed but there should be Congressional hearings first.

  159. A McCain ad just flashed on tv. It shows Reid’s “No one knows what to do” and ends with “More taxes, No leadership.” I have to agree with the no leadership.
    Someone please turn on the Hillary puma signal. We need Hillary!

  160. This is totally off topic and I apologize but I have had a reoccurring problem with my name (under Leave a Reply)being replaced by “Search the Web on Snap” – anyone else having this kind of problem?

    When it happens, I cannot pull up comments in that thread anymore.

  161. myiq2xu,

    That, and a good ol-fashioned barn cleaning, too.

    Has Pelosi resigned yet?

  162. votermom—HILLARY WE ARE HERE HELP WHERE ARE YOU!!!

  163. I don’t want to see anyone in congress do the full monty. I like duck duck goose though!!! are we the ones getting goosed?

  164. Boo Radly,

    It sounds like someone highjacked you. I’ll change your previous comment.

    Are you logged in to wordpress? If not, you might want to get an account. They have some protections in effect now that are supposed to prevent hacking.

  165. Interesting, where IS HIllary?
    Has she made a statement?

    If she’s laying low is it because she could not support or encourage support for the failed bailout?

  166. You ever see a bunch of geese cross the street? They look straight ahead and don’t care if a car is coming. Stupid birds.

  167. CNN

    Just had some Wall Street dude on and had him arguing with a guy who says what we do……..This isn’t an emergency as much as it is a namufactured Wall Street crisis designed to take tax dollars to bail out bad decision making. The guy who was defending Wall Street looked stupid because the guy pointed out that he wasn’t a disinterested third party. D’oh. The Wall Street guy just kept saying this is about main street because of mortgages and pay(Joe guy batted that one down easily too).

  168. Hubby put it on normally I don’t watch the punditry. this was kinda fascinating though.

  169. I just went to Cindy Sheehan’s website. She’s running against Pelosi. Sadly, I don’t think Nancy has anything to worry about…..too bad.

    http://www.cindyforcongress.org/

  170. catarina—-hillary come out with a plan a week ago it was everything we americans needed–the dems won’t support it cause then it proves they backed a loser,,,so they would rather hang us out to dry…same s–t different day!

  171. cwaltz – I wasn’t chiding only democrats or people on here. Just stating the fact that I believe she will be destroyed. I know some republicans will be happy to see that happen. The reason I think Hillary, McCain, & Palin won’t be doing more than visiting the white house is because none of them are owned by the their parties.

    Basically, I think the dirt in both are parties are in control and I think they’re going to stay in control for at least two more years. That’s why I think the $700 billion will get passed and be nothing more than a money grab for the dirt & associates. An opportunity for them to get theirs before the ship sinks.

    As I said, I’m sleep deprived right now. Maybe I’ll be less pessimistic after I catch some z’s. Yesterday I watched some on the right stand up against the bailout bill, then I saw Dennis Kucinich stand up and say thing same thing. Hell has frozen over, the end of days has arrived! LOL

  172. CWaltz,
    I’m over here watching I Love Lucy reruns and you get to watch CNN!
    I made my husband turn off the news last night-told him
    there was a CWaltz imposed ban 😉

  173. Okay, I found the answer to my question at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:H.R.3997:

    “H.R.3997
    Title: An Act to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide tax relief and protections for military personnel, and for other purposes.
    […]
    Note: H.R.3997 is the vehicle for the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008.

    This is really anal of me, perhaps, but isn’t it quite STUPID to fold an emergency economic measure into a completely unrelated, as far as I can see, tax measure? Is there some purposeful obfustication going on?

  174. BB – I did not make the post you changed into my post – I saw that post and that was why I asked – I have an account with Word Press now so I can go to another site that went “private” but it would not let me use my Boo Radly.

    I don’t want to highjack this thread – I just wondered what was going on. I have had a problem way back in March of an Obot breaking into my Main address which I do not use at web sites.

    Anyone else experiencing anything like this?

  175. marsha
    I saw that in teh WSJ
    Looked like a pretty good start to me.
    I know there was a very guarded endorsement from her a few
    days ago but I think she’s been gagged by the dems so as not
    to put Obama at risk for criticism.
    This is when my Hillary frustration kicks in.

    I want her to stand up and scream, “move aside, you fuckers! none of you have a clue!”

  176. If you look at the DOW Jones 5 day on Yahoo! Finance, then you’ll notice something rather odd:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EDJI#symbol=%5EDJI;range=5d

    As you can see, the DOW mysteriously shot up about 150 points into the close on Friday, only to open 150 points down on Monday. Exactly where it had been before the mysterious move.

    You’ll also see that the DOW mysteriously, VERY mysteriously vertically dropped about 200 points in the last 5-10 minutes of Monday’s trading.

    And then it opened 200 points higher on Tueday. Exactly where it had been before the mysterious move.

    It’s almost as if those two moves had nothing to do with the actual market, doesn’t it?

    Let’s see, 778 points minus 350 points = 428 point drop

    Impressive, but does it make you scared? Does it generate the FEAR needed?

    Here is another good question, how much of that 428 point drop is also Mysterious? How much of the remainder is a result of the shrill panic coming from the Senate Leaders, the House Leaders, and our dear leader President Bush?

    Had much would the DOW have dropped if they could have kept their mouths shut about how “Oh-My-God-We-Are-All-Going-To-Die!”

    But, then how would we know to be scared?

  177. @catarina:

    I want her to stand up and scream, “move aside, you fuckers! none of you have a clue!”

    LOL! Wouldn’t that be so great!

  178. Latinos From Chicago Speaking Out Against Obama

    http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Multimedia/Player.aspx?guid=2d0d54e0-d1af-4f04-81b6-75e122ebf4f3

    This tells it all. Obama is all talk and no walk when it comes to helping the Latino community. Devestating video from Latinos in Chicago.

  179. typical—yes u r sleep depived sorry but hillary will be back 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  180. RESTRUCTURING AMERICAN BANKS

    1)NO HOME FORCLOSED WITHOUT A SERIOUS WORKOUT AGREEMENT ATTEMPTED

    a.If no workout is put in place, a signed statement from a Reserve official stating WHY no workout was possible

    2)Taxpayers must directly benefit from any gains resulting from the bailout

    a.American people must get direct ownership of assets if being indebted

    3)Before ANY bailout, there must be investment in building American jobs and infrastructure

    a.Americans need REAL working assets, not paper

    4)Immediate financial regulatory change

    a.A modernized Glass-Steagle Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act

    b.Re-establish local, community owned savings banks

    c.Create within Justice a fully funded division to prosecute every fraud and theft perpetrated by Wall Street and banking, with the power to force those found culpable to disgorge their assets back to the American taxpayer over the past 15 YEARS!

    d.Any profits from the bailout must be returned to a new SS and Medicare lockbox where they can provide for American’s retirements

  181. Pelosi = FAILURE. period. Hey Nancy, it wasn’t because the Repubs voted against the bailout. you couldn’t even get your own party line in line.

    Barney Frank = LIAR. period. Barney, you want to know where you can get 12 House Members you can “talk unusually nice to”?, try your own commitee, there were 12 Democrats that voted against the bailout. Maybe ask the Black Caucus WTF? They voted NO also.

    These “leaders” stink so bad even the MSM is having trouble covering for them.

    And just what is the MSM gonna do when the truth about this “crisis” comes out? Are they going to shred their last ounce of credibility trying to cover for the CORRUPT BASTARDS that caused this??

    I think I just answered my own question………..

  182. Oh look, Obama’s in Nevada today. Can they keep him there, pretty please?

  183. “Is this the United States Congress or the Board of Directors of Goldman Sachs?” Rep. Dennis Kucinich Rejects $700 Billion Bailout
    http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/29/is_this_the_united_states_congress

    REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Right. You know, I’ll tell you something that we were told in our caucus. We were told that our presidential candidate, when the negotiations started at the White House, said that he didn’t want this in this bill. Now, that’s what we were told.

    AMY GOODMAN: You were told that Barack Obama did not want this in the bill?

    REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: That he didn’t want the bankruptcy provisions in the bill. Now, you know, that’s what we were told. And I don’t understand why he would say that, if he did say that. And I think that there is a—the fact that we didn’t put bankruptcy provisions in, that actually we removed any hope for judges to do any loan modifications or any forbearance. There’s no moratorium on mortgage foreclosures in here. So, who’s getting—who’s really getting helped by this bill? This is a bailout, pure and simple, of Wall Street interests who have been involved in speculation.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2008/9/29/is_this_the_united_states_congress
    ……………………………………………..

    So, Obama is this another hidden FLIP FLOP…is he saying one thing on the stump but something else privately. Is he ticked off because of the REMOVAL of THE ACORN PORK?

  184. Not sure if you all have seen this… pretty powerful with a Bill clinton cameo…

  185. Nancy Pelosi is a loser and has always been a loser. I expected more from the first woman speaker of the house, but we’d all be better off if she would stay home and make brownies. Pelosi’s daughter was on fox and would not say that even though not all women held her mother’s views, it was a good day for women when she got elected and it would be the same kind of victory if Palin is elected. Young Pelosi just could not give it up no matter how ridiculous she looked.
    Pelosi and Barry want to be “King of the World!”; fairy tales! (Bill Clinton was spot on!) We are in dangerous times; do we hand it to the kid? Or do we give it to someone who is not trying to prove themself, but already knows who he is; a born leader.
    McCain-Palin 2008!

  186. After listening to all the speeches, statements, punditry, I am beginning to think that perhaps Bush is not helping McCain get elected at all. Why did the administration wait this long to institute needed steps to prevent this crisis? Or is it really a crisis? Since he will no longer be president after Jan 9, is this one of his last actions to make sure that his co-financial aristocrats get to have their game permanently institutionalized? And is it their goal to make sure their own “man” is elected instead of the non-team player like McCain? For surely, the administration had to know the financial mess was rapidly approaching critical mass? God help this country and its good people.

  187. Channeling Tom Keane, RD?

    This thing is so overwhelming.

  188. Boo Radly,

    Sorry I misunderstood. Whoever made that post should speak up then. Otherwise I’ll delete it.

    You didn’t say if you are signed in to wordpress. Are you? Because there have been some problems lately with individual posters, and wordpress has set up something to deal with it. But you need to be logged in.

  189. And the various names for HR 3997 are slightly amusing:

    There are 7 versions of Bill Number H.R.3997 for the 110th Congress
    1 . Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act of 2007 (Introduced in House)[H.R.3997.IH]
    2 . Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act of 2007 (Reported in House)[H.R.3997.RH]
    3 . Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act of 2007 (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House)[H.R.3997.EH]
    4 . Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act of 2007 (Placed on Calendar in Senate)[H.R.3997.PCS]
    5 . Defenders of Freedom Tax Relief Act of 2007 (Engrossed Amendment as Agreed to by Senate)[H.R.3997.EAS2]
    6 . Defenders of Freedom Tax Relief Act of 2007 (Engrossed Amendment as Agreed to by Senate)[H.R.3997.EAS]
    7 . Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act of 2007 (Engrossed Amendment as Agreed to by House)[H.R.3997.EAH]

    From http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.3997:

  190. californian
    One does have to wonder what the effect of Pelosi’s failed legacy will be on other female pols.
    I’ve been worried about that for a while.

    Her morphing into a monster over the past several months
    will not be forgotten any time soon.
    When we finally get rid of her, when do you suppose we’ll hear “Madam Speaker” again?

    IMO, she really screwed it up for all women.
    I want her head on a stick.

  191. Woman Voter,

    Barack Obama voted against capping interest rates at 30%. Now some people are paying credit card rates as high as 40%. There is no top limit. They could charge 100% interest if they wanted to.

    Obama is no socialist.

  192. Aren’t you happier now though caterina? No more wishing to hurl shoes at the TV. Trust me, Lucy is much more entertaining then any of the punditry.

  193. catrina & Imustprotest—she pisses me off too —I would stand up and tell the world what kind of demon I think BO is—she is not me she is tring to stay in politics—i WISH SHE WOULD JUST BLOW THE DNC OFF LIKE THEY DID HER!!but for some reason she thinks we are not enough for her to make the white house without them in 2012 0r 2016 she doesn’t have enough faith in a thrid party yet….I think she’s wrong we all could make a thrid party a party for puma’s of all kinds–people–united—make—america—sound

  194. CWaltz
    I just keep thinking “what would Lucy do?”

  195. BPD, on September 30th, 2008 at 12:13 pm Said:

    Not sure if you all have seen this… pretty powerful with a Bill clinton cameo…


    ______________________________________________
    New McCain ad
    ouch ouch ouch!

  196. BB
    I’m in moderation and I haven’t even said ‘vajay’ once today.

  197. bb – you’re right Obama doesn’t have the moral fortitude to commit to being a socialist, he is in it for his own glory and greed.

  198. Typical republican,

    Get your sleep. We need you refreshed and ready to fight regardless of the outcome in November(and you may be right we may be spitting in the wind because both parties are top heavy with corrupt cronies). I may not agree with you on all the fundamentals on policy but I will take someone who I disagree with on principle to someone without principle who just happens to call themselves Democrat anyday. Pleasant dreams.

  199. McCain going up with new 60 second national ad

    Rein

    Great ad! Bill Clinton speaks in the ad! And he’s right!

    I think this is McCain’s best ad so far. Every American needs to see this. Do pass it on to everyone you know.

    Seize the moment!

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  200. Catarina

    Eat chocolate.(that’s what Lucy would do) 😉

  201. I just bought the Full Monty, but I would never want to see Pelosi and Reid doing a full monty.

  202. I just had chocolate.

  203. marsha
    its so great in theory
    but imagine the all-out congressional chaos (oh, wait-we have that now!)

  204. catarina

    Pelosi is corrupt. Reid is inept. Neither is representative of good and capable men and women with principle. We must remind ourselves not to condemn all based on the actions of one or two.

  205. Yes, keep them their clothes on!

    The only stripping I want to see is of PORK in the bill!

  206. LOL woman voter.

    I can picture that little Bill from schoolhouse rock doing the full monty.

  207. I’m eating some peanut M&M’s right now. I needed some comfort, LOL!

  208. BB – so sorry for disrupting thread – I logged into WordPress, I tried to contact them but I am not a blog “owner” so they can’t help me.

    Two posts one at 11:24 and one at 11:36 were under “Search the Web at Snap. com”. That person should have noticed – unless of course, they are “search the web etc.”.

    Recently I have had a couple of comments I did make not appear. I have noticed a lot more people saying they are in moderation with no reason.

    I’ll give up being able to post, but it seems to mess up my ability to see posts – I need my RD fix everyday!

  209. The economy is only one brick in our crumbling wall. Loans are already difficult to obtain even if you have good credit. Businesses are downsizing or shutting down, unemployment benefits are running out for thousands with no jobs in sight, not to mention the skyrocketing costs of food, fuel, education, and transportation, since they have already risen beyond many Americans means. I am not attacking John McCain on this, since he is a Republican and I do not expect any Republican to get where I am coming from. That’s why I was a registered Democrat. My anger is directed at Obama and the Democratic Party. They have sold out the people in this country to benefit the wealthy 1%. Just follow the money and that tells you all (Just like Deep Throat’s advice during Watergate) A package is needed, and we need the right package quickly. No more partisan bullsh!t from either party. No pork, no free ride to companies and their executives, give help to those losing their homes, help to small business owners, extension of benefits to unemployed, restructuring of subprime mortgages, caps on credit card interest rates, and a repeal of the bankruptcy laws passed under the Bush Administration, as well as UHC. Politicians open your eyes and pay attention to the alliances forming around you. There are real threats that have arisen in Russia, Cuba, Iran, and Venezuela aside from terrorism. And to the American People wake up from your Obama stupor. This man has offered no solutions to ANY problems. He is as elusive as smoke. He has betrayed every basic Democratic Value including free speech. Events in Missouri are only a sign of things to come in the Obamanation. I am voting for John McCain since either way I vote, I will get a Republican. But I am far from happy with either party. Why can’t I have Hillary back, she gets it!

  210. CWaltz

    Did i condemn someone who didn’t deserve it? Must be all the chocolate…

    Hmmm… Harry Reid.
    He has pulled some partisan shit lately-I’d like to think he doesn’t know exactly what he’s doing but I’m not sure…

    Some say he’s like Pelosi’s Egore.

  211. The more I read about the failure of this bill, the more I think that we are seeing the collapse of our two parties. The fact that the Black Congressional Caucus and some Pelosi allies voted no is a sign that there is no order and she can’t keep order. The Democrats especially are imploding but the Republicans don’t seem to be holding it together either. This could be b/c the Rep ideologues finally have to contend with the moderates and in the Dem Party the Obamabots have to contend with the middle class normal folks. Even the Black Cong. Caucus understands it can’t blow this thing, whether it helps or hurts Obama (they aren’t 100% behind him anyway).

  212. “typical—yes u r sleep depived sorry but hillary will be back 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    Bring it on. I was ready for her in 2004 but she didn’t run. I’m still pissed about that. She would have won but Kerry just wasn’t an option for us. And now Obama is even less of an option.

    I’m not an idealogue. I believe the beauty of our system is that it shifts left/right to meet the needs of the time. So for example I think Reagan was the right man for his time, and Clinton was the right man for his time. Somehow, the difference in the leadership of the parties has become non existent. (i.e. the dirt I was referring to). They only work for themselves.

  213. radlyboo1,

    I will e-mail you privately in a few minutes if that’s OK.

  214. Soros has a bank that funds Nancy P’s PAC, which bought the supers for Obama. There is lots of money to be made in rebuilding the infrastructure, which is why Nancy is hearing about it all over the world! Why she can just stay at home and hear about it. I guess Soros’ bank is international.

    Obama is the one, with our broken economy, to start the infrastructure rebuilding! Just like Daddy Roosevelt. Only Soros is in the picture.

  215. Hi, I have a question.

    In order to send an e-mail to this site, what answers do you type in to all the questions it asks you like what server do you use, etc. I have a yahoo account but never know what answers to type in.

  216. marsha – Hillary serves on the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee; the Environment and Public Works Committee; the Special Committee on Aging; and she is the first New Yorker ever to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee. We have seen how Nancy is trying to get Rangel to quit his committee post so I think leaving the Democratic party might affect her position on these committees. Hillary is all about her issues. That is what she mostly cares about. Therefore she will do whatever helps her

  217. Gawd! If I had read the things I’ve been writing lately even just 6 monthes ago, I’d be asking “who let the fucking republican in here”?

    Let’s give credit where credit due – Repubs stood up to Pelosi over the energy legislation and now over the bailout. I can’t believe I’m saying this, thank God for the congressional Republicans.

    Gee zuz……….

  218. Boo Radly,

    Check your e-mail. If that doesn’t work, I’ll ask RD about it later on tonight.

  219. FOX has Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell and ACORN…
    Let me know when it hist youtube.

  220. John in ca,

    What do you mean by “send and e-mail to this site?” How do you do that?

  221. Ken Blackwell is the guy who helped Bush win Ohio in 2004. He’s no longer Sec of State.

  222. FLvoter, no one seems to get that the MORTGAGES are not the biggest problem, really. Those could be worked out under Hill’s HOLC program, and eventually turn a profit, because real estate does have an intrinsic value in the long term. Yes, there would be a market correction, but we could survive that.

    The thing that this bill is designed to bail out and protect is not the MORTGAGES. We already nationalized Fannie and Freddie, and that accounts for almost 80% of all mortgages now that are being backed by treasury funds.

    It is the mortgage DERIVATIVES (all the side-betting and gambling on those mortgages that went on unchecked) that they are scrambling to protect. The paper based on nothing that is held in large part by the big hedge funds. They are trying to obfuscate and say this is all about bad mortgages, when really the mortgages themselves could be isolated and resolved over time. The thing they are afraid of is that the DERIVATIVE players and gamblers will be left out in the cold, and they by god won’t stand for that. They will not allow the markets to be stabilized unless they can make sure the hedge fund players get their piece of the pie. It could be done WITHOUT giving them their piece of pie, but they are throwing sand in the eyes of and blowing smoke over that reality as fast as they can.

    They are trying their damnedest to make it a Hobson’s choice, and the people are rightly saying, “No, it isn’t. Just because those are the only two choices you are offering does not mean that those are the only two choices there ARE.”

  223. bb– I mean what answers do you give to all the questions it asks after you hit send.

  224. BB, we will never know for sure, because Kerry wouldn’t ask for a recount.

  225. She will do whatever helps her advance them

  226. […] Riverdaughter at The Confluence:  Tuesday: Nancy and Barack-Perfect together! […]

  227. WMCB, it is also the losses they are taking from Real Estate prices being devalued. I just saw on Fox that prices in NV are down %30. That is almost a third of the original price. We are being asked to shell out money for this reason too.

  228. I agree with boston boomer, write a Democratic bill that addresses the underlying problem of foreclosure and “upside mortgages”, does not give unprecedented power to an unelected official in the Executive Branch, does not throw money at buying up the toxic waste but have no equity in the institutions and does not provide a mechanism to jump start the economy and provide investment opportunities in alternative energy and infrastructure and create high paying jobs that would increase the buying power of American people. So what if you manage to stabilize the credit market, if you don’t increase the earning power of ordinary Americans, there will not be enough people to meet the credit standards to get credit. As Hillary stated “You can’t safe the lenders without helping the borrowers as well” (a paraphrase). One can’t just work on one side of the equation to make it balanced.

    Hillary’s plan with the HOLC solves the power, equity and foreclosure/”upside mortgage” problem while paying back the taxpayer. Do what Sweden did in the 1990’s and seize insolvent banks quickly, have transparency, sell them off when the market is better and institute a strict regulatory framework. Both of these have been highly successful, when both economies were in a depression. Sweden by acting boldly and quickly, mitigated and lessened the pain considerably and the economy recovered quickly.

    I have phoned and emailed my representatives with these ideas every day. I urge you all to do the same (many of you probably are) and continue to pressure them to do this the right way. I am also going to call Senator Obama’s office and demand him to do his job, as a US Senator. He is a disgrace and a corporate shill. He is the one that had even the small measure about the bankruptcy judges being able to re-structure mortgages to forestall foreclosure out of the bill – a direct concession to the banking lobbyists.

  229. Obama is the one, with our broken economy, to start the infrastructure rebuilding! Just like Daddy Roosevelt. Only Soros is in the picture.
    —————————————
    No, he is not the one. Obama hasn’t mentioned anything about infrastructure. He doesn’t care.

  230. John in CA,

    I didn’t know it was possible to send an e-mail to the site. If it were me, I would put in my real e-mail address and leave everything else blank. But I don’t know what the questions are, because, like I said, I didn’t even know you could e-mail the site. How do you do it?

  231. Downticket,

    Obama talked about infrastructure rebuilding during the debate on Friday night. But I agree with you that he probably doesn’t really care. But he does talk about it.

  232. “Obama hasn’t mentioned anything about infrastructure”

    No, he said we should make our infrastructure as good as China’s.

  233. True, mawm. My point is that the problem could be solved if you removed from the equation making sure all the Wall Street Boyz had their asses fully covered, and looked honestly and ONLY at what must be done to a) avert a crash and b) minimize the effects on homeowners.

    But they will not allow any solution that does not give them their piece of the pie.

  234. I am sorry but this is starting to sound more like a statement I just heard on the radio, “An opportunity masked as a disaster.” The opportunity part for the fat cats on Wall Street. I just don’t trust anyone in Washington any more and I don’t have anyone to chose from in the election to change this. The market is coming back, so does that mean the sky is still falling?

    And WTF is up with gas? I heard this morning that the national average is $3.64, but here in the southeast, it is over $4 a gallon and that is only if you can find a station that has gas.

  235. bostonboomer – I can’t get myself to watch anything Obama. No matter what he says, I know he is lying so why bother.

  236. TheRealKim, any gas shortages have more to do with disruption of supply lines due to Ike than the current economy.

  237. catarina

    I was in the military during an area where women were limited. One of the things I constantly fought was perception. If one woman behaved poorly men were quick to point it out. I learned quickly to point out that it wasn’t a gender issue but a charecter issue(After all, I could find men that were lazy as well.) When people condemn Nancy Pelosi, WE need to do the same. Corruption is not a trait limited to males. Nancy’s behavior is not a referendum on women.

  238. The good ol’ boys on Wall Street have been ridin’ dirty.

    Time to grab them by their ties and yank them the hell away from the American taxpayer’s pockets.

    Get out of my wallet you fat cats!!

    No. Corporate. Welfare. Bailout. Plan.

    Loans ONLY!

    Oh, and NOBAMA!! 😉

  239. bb– if you hit the ‘About Us’ button, there’s a link to e-mail this site. But after you hit send, it asks a bunch of questions I don’t understand.

    I’m just trying to find out if RD got the poem I sent her Friday. Whenever I call into the show,she says write another poem and she’ll post it. So I wrote one. The way things are going, I’m wondering if it will be my last one before I go into mourning because of Obama’s likely election.

  240. McCain really has to step in and take control. Obama is doing nothing, if McCain would get his act together he could really change the dynamic. Can’t he just channel Hilliary?

  241. Is it really possible that Nancy Pelosi is that ignorant, or is more likely that she wanted the bill to fail for political reasons? She has to know that you do not vote without knowing the outcome. I do not trust those ratfuckers at all.

  242. John,

    Did you send the poem? If you want me to, I could send it to RD for you. Is it OK for me to e-mail you at the address on your comments?

  243. CWaltz

    I hope you didn’t misunderstand and think I support Pelosi in any way, shape, or form.
    I sent money to Cyndi!

    It’s very disappointing to me that a woman who ascended to power the way she did totally f-ed it up when she had the opportunity to lead, set an example, help other women, etc.
    It was a huge responsibility and she passed.

  244. mambo

    I know I feel like I am in Bizzaro world. I definitely disagree with the concept of a free market but I applaud the GOP for fighting the bill, which IMO would have been bad for average Americans. At least I can give them points for consistency.

  245. Important. My latest. Please read. BO is killing any chance at universal health care:

    http://alegrescorner.soapblox.net/showDiary.do?diaryId=1210

  246. WMCB- Yeah I am very aware of that. I think I said, AND . . . wtf is up with gas? I know what I asked.

  247. Honora,

    McCain has already tried. for his efforts he got told by the media, Pelosi and average Americans to just shut up and debate.

  248. Kim, are y’all having gas shortages. The national news says that we are here in NC, but Gary and I are calling BS. There are no lines here. They actually named Raleigh on the TV last night, and we haven’t seen anything like what they are claiming.

  249. bb– that would be fine, please e-mail me.

  250. Sadly, it looks like we are going to be STUCK with Nancy for at least two years in the House. Corruption is lucrative. I am not a big Cindy Sheehan supporter but I give the woman props for standing up and picking up where her son left off. Someone needs to defend the American citizens from parasites wishing to rename post offices for six figures and little else.

  251. “In very simplistic terms, this crisis can be summed up in one sentence: If you loan money to people or companies that cannot pay you back, you will go bankrupt, unless your Country bails you out…

    Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke’s commitment of your grandchildren’s future so far is as follows:
    $29 billion — Bear Stearns Rescue
    $168 billion –Tax rebates to Americans
    $300 billion — Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac nationalization
    $58 billion — AIG nationalization
    $700 billion — Government taking bad debt off the books
    $1,255,000,000,000 — Total for Future Generation’s Bill
    And remember, when the government gives you an estimated cost, it is always prudent to multiply it by 10 to get closer to the truth….

    Let us be perfectly clear. The U.S. government has no money. We entered this week with a National Debt of 9.65 trillion dollars. The deficit for next year will surpass $600 billion. Every dime of these bailouts will be borrowed. They will be borrowed from China, Japan, and the Middle East. In an effort to keep our corrupt financial system afloat, we have sold another piece of our country. The prestige and status of the U.S. in the eyes of the world community have suffered a catastrophic non-reversible decline in the last nine months. “We The People” had absolutely no say in this decision…

    It should be clear to the American people that $1.255 trillion will be borrowed from the Chinese, Russians, Japanese, and Middle East. The United States of America is broke. We have no money. The annual interest charge that the American people will pay will exceed $60 billion per year, $164 million per day, $6.8 million per hour. As all Americans know, when you borrow from someone, they call the shots. The reckless mismanagement of our country’s finances has put us in the position of asking other countries for favors. We are now begging for capital infusions from China. The Chinese and Middle Eastern countries know they are gaining more power, day by day. The U.S. Empire has begun its long slow decline.”

    The above quotes came from an article called “Green Ashes and Black Swans – The Alan Greenspan Legacy” It’s a very sobering article in two parts you can read here:

    http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=796&pageid=89&pagename=Features (part II – which addresses the current crisis)

    and here:
    http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=788&pageid=89&pagename=Features

    I am glad this bill failed and I don’t care who caused it. It was a classic case of putting the cart before the horse. Before ANY money is handed over to Wall Street Congress should put some regulations in place to protect against this whole debacle happening again. No. Bailout. Not. One. Penny. Regulation first. Then we’ll talk money.

  252. Barack was never going to give us UHC. Anyone who believed he would was deluded and fantasizing. Obama is pretty much a libretarians wet dream. I don’t understand where folks get this idea he is a socialist.

  253. The night before the vote House R’s were saying they would only deliver around 60 votes. I think Pelosi thought she had enough Dems to pass the bill with only 60 or so republicans. Probably why she felt bold enough to trash republicans just before the vote.

  254. Mawm: I didn’t see the lines starting until the damn media announced it was happening. The next day there were lines wrapped around the stations and they are limiting amounts. Of course, when the media announced shortages, these damn fools around here starting bringing rain barrels, their boats and anything else that would hold gas. I would expect it in your area now that the media has told people there isn’t any gas.

  255. CWaltz, I didn’t think he would, but he’s actually damaging the movement. That’s far worse than doing nothing/

  256. re: the “socialist” lable and Obama:

    Maybe the speech he gave where he said, “Comrades, we’ll all have to eat a lttle less..”
    ok, that’s not the exact quote.

  257. Is there something I can do to help? I don’t want Obama to win. I s there something, anything I can do to help?

  258. Honora – I think he has been channeling Hillary. When this crisis first hit, McCain said that he would fire Paulson. After Hillary came out with her plan, the next day McCain had a plan too. Obama still had no plan. The same with the Georgia and Russian crisis. McCain answered the 3am call while Obama flip flopped on his various solutions. McCain has been acting more presidential than Obama.

    I think if McCain said that he supported Hillary’s HOLC plan that would score him some points with PUMAs and I am sure Bill Clinton will continue calling McCain a great man(which is killing Obama supporters 🙂

  259. Some reporting about the role of Soros allies in the Wachovia situation…

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/how_allies_of_george_soros_hel.html

  260. “I don’t understand where folks get this idea he is a socialist.”

    Because we always use that line. It works.

  261. John Fund: ACORN Election Fraud Brewing

    ……………………………………………….

    Obama was ACORN’s attorney…hemmm.

    TAKE A LOOK BEFORE THE ‘OBAMA TRUTH SQUAD’ REMOVES IT WITH A CEASE AND DESIST LETTER. Check out this site for a copy of the letter to the NRA:
    http://dtmf.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/tread-lighty-obama/

  262. If he were a socialist, I’d vote for him. He’s not even a democrat. He’s like a moderate republican.

  263. at 1:24 pm – CWaltz – totally spot on comment. Obama is no socialist. If he was I could vote for him. Hell, he’s not even a Democrat.

  264. He’s been damaging the movement since the primary. So has Kerry and I suspect Nanacy and a whole lot of privileged folk with a D after their name.

    Evidently the taxpayers’ billions are only to be utilized to bail out investors not for things like health coverage.

    Sigh. I think we have ALOT of work to do. We need to start by figuring who supports HR 676 and go from there.

  265. TheRealKim, sorry – didn’t mean to imply you didn’t know that about the gas. Not my intent at all.

  266. Ha! Dee, that’s what I just said!

  267. All Afro American Gal

    visit your local mccain camp to make calls.. they will set you up with all the info, and then you can make calls from home as well if its more convinent for you.

    what state do you live in? I can look up the info for you.

  268. Illinois, thank you.

  269. Market is up 350+ points and climbing.

    Value of the US dollar is up.

    Why?

    Congress did not add $700 Billion to our national debt yesterday!

    Free the markets!

    No. Corporate. Welfare.

  270. All Afro American Gal:

    no problem..

    give me a few minutes, I am looking it up right now.. and will post it in a few.

  271. Obama’s health care plan- personal responsibility and prayer- Geez doesn’t that sound like the national health care plan we have now? Unfortunately NEITHER party does much about health care(big surprise since ALL the Congress folk have EXCELLENT health care). I got angry at the folks who belittled Kuchinich, I give the guy props for at least trying to come up with solutions. They may not be perfect but at least he’s TRYING.

  272. CWaltz, this guy is a disaster. He’s literally campaigning for employee provided, private insurance. That’s effing stoopid.

  273. Downticket – I think McCain needs to listen more closely to his PUMA advisors.

    Every time McCain calls Obama the most liberal senator he loses PUMA votes as we all know he is not.

  274. Meanwhile will you guys start going the ABC Jake Tapper political Punch and radar boards. especially Political Punch and start posting. They are biased and jerks are posting. They delete posts from anyone who are anti-obama.

    I am all alone on that board.

  275. If Obama, Pelosi, Dean et al represent the “Progressives” just give me old fashioned liberals.

  276. mass lib

    Someone should tell him one of the reasons jobs have been shipped out of the country is because of the cost of health insurance to employers.

    They’d rather go to Canada where the government shoulders the burden or a third world country where the workers are just grateful to make enough to feed their families.

  277. All afro american gal:

    this is the info for mccain’s offices in IL:

    Midwest Regional Office
    Midwest Regional Headquarters
    2775 86th Street
    Urbandale, IA 50322
    Office number is 515-418-9270

    they will let you know of offices close to you, also, ask them of the link on being able to make calls from home..

    (I had that link, can’t find it)… if they don’t give you that link, visit http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net and we can help you find it (someone posted a thread about it a while back)

  278. CWaltz, on September 30th, 2008 at 1:24 pm Said:

    Barack was never going to give us UHC. Anyone who believed he would was deluded and fantasizing. Obama is pretty much a libretarians wet dream. I don’t understand where folks get this idea he is a socialist.
    ……………………………..
    That is another myth. I don’t understand why some people think he is a socialist. Obama is about Obama. He is a liar and a fraud. He is a successful con artist. Some people think he is a marxist, too liberal, socialist etc. Personally, I think Obama is a republican pretending to be a Democrat.

  279. McCain has a difficult job. He needs to maintain a middle ground between PUMAS and his own party faithful. I think he’s done better than Barack at uniting.

  280. AAA gal, the link to phonebank for McCain from home is here:

    http://www.johnmccain.com/PhoneBank/?guid=0A517F03-C3ED-4A24-A14A-3BD9D5F32F2F

  281. You see in Obama what you want to see.

  282. He has left himself sufficiently ambiguous for that purpose.

  283. Thank you everyone. I know that in IL I am in the minority in more ways than one.

  284. I don’t want to call Obama a GOP member because I think that is an insult to principled GOP members. I may disagree with them but I do believe that they are genuine and not just looking for political gain for their positions.

    I don’t think he’s as much a con artist as a blank slate. I blame that on what sounds like a sad childhood. Feeling sorry for him though doesn’t mean I want him in a position to hurt our country more than it already has been hurt.

  285. thank you all afro american gal!!

    you’ve inspired me to go my local mccain office this weekend and start making calls as well!

  286. AAA Gal, you are not totally alone. There are a few AA bloggers out there fighting the good fight. Sugar is one of my favorites:

    http://sugarnspice.typepad.com/

  287. It is a great ad! I love it! And McCain is going national with it.

    We need more of these kinds of ads. IMO, it’s McCain’s best ad thus far. And it is fitting that this new McCain ad is the first ad in the campaign where Bill Clinton is part of the ad. I love it!! I truly believe Bill CLinton, and Hillary Clinton, will vote for McCain.

    Lots of Democrats that support Bill and Hill will see it. I pray enough of us will be able to help McCain win in ’08, so we can all elect Hillary POTUS in 4 years.

  288. BB are you still around? have you got anything to post?

  289. Woman Voter-Those videos are garbage. Just someone’s pathetic attempt to blame Democrats for the subprime mess. They are offensive and untrue. That may be why they keep getting pulled. I was in mortgage and banking in the 80’s and 90’s and I am very familiar with the CRA. It’s good Democratic legislation and definitely not the cause of our current problems. Carter started it and Clinton continued it. If the Big Dawg likes it, that’s good enough for me. : )

  290. Joan, BC and even Krugman say the mortgage crisis is a bipartisan f*ck up.

  291. I’m really bummed after taking a look at the latest poll numbers. Obama is gaining ground and the obvious question is WHY WHY WHY? I’m getting the very same sinking – and lonely – feeling I had when Dubya was re-elected, when Reagan was so wildly popular. I just want to run into the streets screaming “WAKE UP!!” Why, oh why , are so many Americans so easily duped? Why?

  292. We had weeks of non-stop media hysteria over Hillary’s Bosnia sniper fire comment. Left Blogistsan was rending their clothes, frothing at the mouth, and shrieking LIAR LIAR OMG HOW COULD YOU TRUST THIS PERSON??!!

    Yet Biden can run around falsely claiming he was “shot at” in Iraq and there is not one peep from the mainstream media:

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/30/unlike-clinton-biden-gets-pass-saying-shot-iraq/comments/

  293. Count Me Out
    The Obama Craze

    By MATT GONZALEZ
    http://www.counterpunch.org/gonzalez02292008.html
    ………………………………………………

    Listen to what Bill Clinton said about him trying to pass reform on the mess and go over to NQ and check out who is benefiting. I think they used some odd ways of giving people crazy loans when they could have had a sound plan in place to give these people opportunities to gain home ownership.

    One way that is solid and leads to ownership is Habitat Housing programs, they gain equity over the course of years and can then move on up if they are in a better position, if not they have a home and no big mortgage.

    I think there may be a bit of truth in those videos otherwise the McCain campaign wouldn’t be running the ad with Bill Clinton in it.

    Also, did you know Obama was ACORN’s attorney years back?

    I am voting for Nader and Matt.

  294. Joan, so you are saying that the Democrats REFUSAL to allow any regulation of Fannie and Freddie whatsoever, and their playing of the race card when it was tried, (calling the criticisms of Raines a “lynching, etc) have nothing whatsoever to do with the subprime mess?

  295. Joan
    Big dawg speaks
    Check out the McCain ad, link above by
    BPD, on September 30th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

  296. Hillary supports the bail out:

    Clinton: ‘It Sounds Dire, But Commerce Could Stop’
    Says She Understands The Concerns Of ‘Innocent Taxpayers,’ But A Possible ‘Recession Impacts Everyone’
    WASHINGTON (CBS/AP) ― Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton says the U.S. Senate may have to lead the way in passing a $700 billion Wall Street bailout package, now that the House has rejected the measure.

    “I certainly would support the Senate going first, so long as we have the votes … as early as tomorrow if that’s what would make this process successful,” Clinton told reporters by phone Tuesday.

    The New York Democrat, who nearly won her party’s presidential nomination, said she believes public opposition to the bailout deal may be weakening after the market reacted badly to the failed House vote Monday and more businesses express worries about the future.

    “It sounds dire but there is a risk that commerce could grind to a halt,” she said.

    After the deal failed in the House Monday, the Dow Jones Industrial average sank 778 points, or nearly 7 percent, to its lowest close in nearly three years. It was the largest point drop and 17th largest percentage drop in its history, but far less severe than the 20-plus-percentage drops seen in the stock market crash of October 1987 and before the Great Depression.

    The market recovered somewhat in Tuesday morning trading, rising more than 200 points by midday.

    Clinton suggested negotiators on the government bailout package should “maybe cool off a little from the emotion and the pressure of the last two weeks and get back to Washington starting tomorrow and do what we have to do to try to stabilize not only our nation but the entire world.”

    Voters furious over the proposal to have taxpayers foot the bill should understand that it’s not just a problem facing bankers, Clinton said.

    “They have to recognize that we are facing a very serious economic slowdown, a recession that could be of long-lasting and deep impact,” she said.

    Without a bailout, Clinton said, “I think it will be even more expensive and difficult to dig ourselves out of this deep hole that we’re in.”

  297. Joan — I’m sorry to disagree with you but you are painting with too broad a brush — CRA started out as good democratic legislations, but like a lot of things that start out good, it became corrupt and careless with little oversight as through the years there has been less & less regulation, not to mention too many people getting “their piece of the action.” This was always going to be the outcome of the go-go days of subprime lending. The piper must be paid.

  298. Also, Mark Penn on why Obama has the edge on the economy:

    Penn: Obama has advantage on economy
    By: Mark J. Penn

    The financial crisis has redefined the presidential race, bringing into stark relief the candidate who can deal with the complexities of the global markets and return the country to prosperity over the next four years.

    The race is no longer about change, experience, Iraq, tax cuts or universal health care. The job posting has been fundamentally altered.

    Just as the Russia-Georgia conflict tilted the race toward Republican nominee John McCain a few weeks ago, this economic crisis shifts everything once again — this time to Democratic standard-bearer Barack Obama. Voters will now increasingly cast ballots on the economy, as opposed to national security or social values. This will reach right into the swing states, such as Ohio, where the economy had already been teetering before this crisis, and maybe even Florida, where many retirees on a fixed income live off their investment portfolios.

    Americans — like voters around the world — have a habit of shifting their support in reaction to a crisis. In 2001, Michael Bloomberg was 20 points behind in New York’s mayoral race, until the Sept. 11 attacks transformed voters’ requirements for the job. New Yorkers needed a crisis manager, not a reformer, and they shifted to Bloomberg virtually overnight.

    Over the years, I have seen other such crises have a big impact. President Bill Clinton’s strong and empathetic response to the Oklahoma City bombing in April 1995 lifted his presidency from its doldrums after the 1994 Republican congressional sweep. His reaction to the bombing was a building block toward his easy 1996 reelection. And Sept. 11 transformed the Bush administration into a national security presidency, a key part of his 2004 reelection.

    But what makes the current financial crisis more like an economic Sept. 11 is the way it suddenly burst onto the scene with the unexpected collapse of major investment banks and gyrations of the world’s equity and debt markets — on top of skyrocketing oil and commodity prices.

    The unrestricted consumption of oil, the unrestrained use of easy credit and the out-of-control use of complex financial derivatives all collided to send a clear message to America that the nation could actually face an economic collapse unlike anything since 1929.

    So why didn’t this benefit John McCain, the seeming steady hand of experience in the midst of a crisis? First, because his performance seemed erratic rather than steady, and second, because the kinds of people we turn to in an economic crisis are very different from those we would turn to for a national security conflict.

    In the showdown with Russia, America was looking for someone who would be tough, knowledgeable and certain, and would strike enough fear in the hearts of the enemy to gain respect and maybe even stare down our adversaries.

    With a sophisticated global economic crisis, the voters would be looking for nuance and mutual cooperation, someone who would reach out to the nation’s economic partners. Rather than calling for moral absolutes, the voters are looking for compromise — they know it’s morally wrong to bail out Wall Street, but they also know they have to do something or they will wind up paying an even bigger bill for this crisis.

    So right now the former Harvard Law Review editor, the candidate who is ready to reach out to everyone across the globe and who has a head for sorting out complexity, is the kind of presidential candidate voters are seeking to solve this crisis. It seems like a great fit for Obama.

    And McCain’s running mate, Sarah Palin, is no help here. Her selection was a values play, and now values are a less important factor in voters’ decisions. How McCain must wish he had tapped former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina, one of his chief economic advisers. She might have been the kind of VP nominee who would be scooping up votes in this crisis. Palin was also an attempt to bring more women to the GOP — but women are typically the most nervous and concerned about economic policy, especially in a recession or a crisis. This is why the Palin effect seems to have disappeared.

    Compared with Obama’s principles, McCain’s solutions — ending earmarks, slashing spending and cutting taxes — while popular enough, do not seem like a comprehensive plan to fix the global economy. McCain started off down the populist road, condemning Wall Street CEOs, but seemed to do it only halfheartedly before pulling back.

    McCain had planned on using Friday’s foreign policy debate to highlight his experience, but when the event’s first 40 minutes shifted to economic talk, he lost his edge on the issues. Despite serious discussion about how to deal with Russia, no one seemed to care. Instead, McCain’s discussion of the economic crisis came across as quite weak.

    Neither Obama nor McCain has so far used the values-oriented approach that President Franklin D. Roosevelt invoked in his first inaugural address, when he described how the “money changers” had fled their temples, allowing government to restore the temple to “ancient truths.” He fused populism with restoring the basic values of hard, honest work over “callous and selfish wrongdoing.”

    The candidates are a long way from his rhetoric or his positions — neither has expressed the kind of outrage that FDR did at the bankers who caused so much economic misery. The average American homeowner has already lost 25 percent of the home’s value — for most people, that’s 25 percent or more of their savings.

    Other events may well come along and again shift the focus of this election. But absent other game-changers, this election is now a referendum on economic leadership, and that is giving the edge to Obama, who is seen as having the intellect to solve this crisis.

    Mark J. Penn served as chief adviser to President Bill Clinton in the 1996 presidential election and to Hillary Rodham Clinton during her Senate and presidential races. He is the author of “Microtrends: The Small Forces Behind Tomorrow’s Big Changes” (Twelve, 2007).

  299. Joan…this is a NO FALSE ACCUSATIONS OF RACISM ZONE!

    Bill Clinton and Hillary were coated with this during the primary and WE ARE SICK OF IT!

    We are all just people here…

  300. masslib, on September 30th, 2008 at 2:33 pm Said:

    Hillary supports the bail out:
    “I certainly would support the Senate going first, so long as we have the votes … as early as tomorrow if that’s what would make this process successful,” Clinton told reporters by phone Tuesday.

    HILL-A-RY! HILL-A-RY! HILL-A-RY!
    I know she’s itching to clean up this mess! Just let everyone step out of her way, please!

  301. At least we know for certain Hillary isn’t included in the negotiations now. Even though she’s the only one with any clue about what’s happening.

  302. votermom — yeah, she is itching to clean up this mess but do you really think Obama et al will allow her to do it? H3ll no — it will take the spotlight off of the precious. Wondered where Hillary was these last few days? I say we should have had a look in Pelosi’s basement.

  303. How many banks went down the crapper today?

    Just wondering?

  304. Hillary’s been stumping for DT Dems.

  305. Here is a list of all banks that have failed (not including Wachovia) since 2007 (before you have to go back to 2004 to find any).
    Bank Name Closing Date
    1. Washington Mutual Bank, Henderson, NV and Washington Mutual Bank FSB, Park City, UT September 25, 2008
    2. Ameribank, Northfork, WV September 19, 2008
    3. Silver State Bank, Henderson, NV
    En Español September 5, 2008
    4. Integrity Bank, Alpharetta, GA August 29, 2008
    5.The Columbian Bank and Trust, Topeka, KS August 22, 2008
    6. First Priority Bank, Bradenton, FL August 1, 2008
    7. First Heritage Bank, NA, Newport Beach, CA July 25, 2008
    8. First National Bank of Nevada, Reno, NV July 25, 2008
    9. IndyMac Bank, Pasadena, CA July 11, 2008
    10. First Integrity Bank, NA, Staples, MN May 30, 2008
    11. ANB Financial, NA, Bentonville, AR May 9, 2008
    12. Hume Bank, Hume, MO March 7, 2008
    13. Douglass National Bank, Kansas City, MO January 25, 2008
    14. Miami Valley Bank, Lakeview, OH October 4, 2007
    15. NetBank, Alpharetta, GA September 28, 2007
    16. Metropolitan Savings Bank, Pittsburgh, PA February 2, 2007

    Seems like this has been coming for a while now — not that the press has been reporting it — I guess that would hurt the “urgency of now” meme.

  306. Reg can you give her a call please?
    We could sure use some leadership right about now..
    You’ve got her cell, I know you do.

  307. Well, look at it this way, here’s something exciting, the economy is probably going to sweep in big majorities in both houses without at Repub President to argue with. That’s a good thing.

  308. Angie, my hope is that BO’s money masters are so worried about their own hoards that they’ll tell BO to stfu and let the lady work.

  309. Woman Voter, on September 30th, 2008 at 2:22 pm Said:
    Count Me Out
    The Obama Craze

    By MATT GONZALEZ
    http://www.counterpunch.org/gonzalez02292008.html
    ………………………………………………

    That’s quite a thorough essay. Bookmarked. It needs a FISA/telecom immunity section, though!

  310. I don’t want these Democrats to have majorities so that they can rubber stamp BAD policy. That’s the point of divided government. I’d prefer it.

    And yes, Catarina, I have her number. She’s out shopping with Lady Lynn but she’ll get back to me when she’s done.

  311. This is what Hillary said yesterday. She doesn’t need to hold her nose and vote

    Monday, September 29, 2008 12:15 PM EDT

    Sen. Hillary Clinton may not like the proposed $700 billion economic bailout plan, but that won’t stop her from voting for it, the former presidential candidate told the Long Island Association Monday morning.

    Clinton, speaking at the Association’s trade show and breakfast, said that she “despises” the plan being debated in the House of Representatives, but said she does not see any other choice.

    “I’ll hold my nose and vote for it because I do not see another alternative,” Clinton said. “Nobody likes the $700 billion bailout.”

    Clinton said that New York has been especially hard hit by the mortgage and economic crisis. Long Island has lost billions of dollars in real estate sales and property tax money because of the rising foreclosures brought on by the mortgage crisis. Clinton said the bailout should help turn around the New York and Long Island economies.

    She said the original plan proposed by the Bush Administration was not passable, but some of the safeguards and restrictions added by Congress has made it better.

    Those checks and balances include restraints on executive compensation, including getting rid of golden parachutes and giving out the money in installments instead of a lump sum. The president has the authority to give the Treasury Department $250 billion for the first installment, but needs Congressional approval for the next $100 billion and the remaining $350 billion, she said.

    “We could not give the treasury a black check,” Clinton said. “A lot of the changes made are for the good.”

    She said she expected the House to pass the plan today, and she and other senators will be working feverishly over the next few days to try to accumulate the 60 necessary votes for it to pass in the Senate.

    She added that she also plans to introduce legislation creating a system similar to Franklin Roosevelt’s Homeowner Loan Corp. That system will refinance adjustable rate mortgages to loans with lower, and more stable rates to allow homeowners to stay in their homes.

    “The problem is that nobody knows who holds their mortgage,” Clinton said. “Only the government has the capacity to push this forward. We have to come together to achieve that.”

    Clinton said she is a bit wary of putting money for the bailout in the same hands as those that created the mortgage and banking mess in the first place in hope they find a way to unravel the mess they made, but reiterated that there seems to be no other choice.

    She said that she is also worried about the large amount of credit card debt Americans have accumulated.

    She said the average American family has about $9,000 in credit card debt and that may be the next sector of the economy to fall apart.

    “We have a lot of work to do to dig ourselves out of the hole we’ve put ourselves in,” Clinton said. “We have so much debt. The federal government has lost its way over the past eight years by allowing public and private debt to reach unprecedented levels.”

    http://www.libn.com/breakingNews.htm?articleID=12696

  312. John in CA,

    I e-mailed you.

  313. I’m excited about the possibility this economic crisis could lead to large Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress, and no repub at the top to get ibn the way. I can’t help it, that’s exciting.

  314. Masslib
    I myself am not in favor of the dems taking over the world!
    We’ve seen what they’ll do with power-they must be forced to share.

  315. I’d be excited about Dems in power if I though they were not corrupt.

  316. After what happened in the primary, Democrats should never be given too much power

  317. Well, how about we share power when the repubs come up with something beside low taxes for the rich, deregulation, and restricting women’s rights?

  318. o be clear, I am a big supporter of a two Party system, but the repubs need to come up with a new ideology.

  319. voter mom
    that is the problem!

  320. so do the dems, masslib

  321. Covering up the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Scam that caused our Economic Crisis

  322. catarin – Amen to that.

    The last thing in the world I want is Dem control of the House and Senate and W.H. at this time. Over the past 30 years there have been many times when I prayed for that – not now.

    I don’t know who these current faux-progressives really are but I know they aren’t about me. I am a liberal female, pre-boomer, a small (very small) business owner and a lesbian. None of my issues are on their radar screen.

    In one year I will have single payer medical insurance when I turn 65. I want everyone to have it. Ain’t going to happen with Obama in the W.H. as the Dems will hold back. If McCain is int he W.H. the Dems can push it through – if Hillary leads the charge.

  323. masslib, that is not a good thing. A dem congress with Obama at the helm scares the hell out of me.

  324. The President of the United States is not my leader and he is not the leader of the free (whatever that means) world either. Perhaps if Americans kicked that delusion they would start looking for their leaders in the right places. Hillary Clinton still strikes me as the only competent adult on the scene – but no, she wouldn’t have been my leader either. I’d have admired and respected her though, as I can’t Obama or McCain, and given credit to the US electorate for making a mature choice, at last.

  325. Pelosi Makes me SICK!.I just can’t stand this woman.She is disgusting with her thrill of placing blame everywhere but where it belongs! Barney Frank & Schumer among the ACORN group were busily corrupting Fannie and Freedie and forcing banks to make loans to people who couldn’t afford them like something magically would happen? It’s called welfare and has hurt everyones business,401K, and retirement savings! Pox on them. Praising Frank yesterday made me ill ..like putting the Chicken in control of the hen house!!..They are just so corrupt.We need to clean up the Dems.Those coming up for re-election no matter what state shouldn’t get re-elected .That and getting rid of Barack Hussein Nobama will show them we mean business and want our party back!

  326. RD this part is really bad. Really bad. I think he orchestrated this whole deal with overseas………….after following NQ for months and the German thing what banks are we talking about? And she is in on it too RD — I mean this goes OVER the top. OVER THE TOP.

    http://www.rense.com/general80/sor.htm

  327. Dee
    it’s not just that you’re not on their radar.
    you’re in their crosshairs!
    damned scary anti-gay righty stuff.
    small business tax increases.
    anti-woman, god-in-the-bed righty weirdness.
    run!

  328. masslib: You know, you don’t have to make a decision until Nov. 4. There is really no point to declaring to us now.

  329. Jeanne: There’s plenty of blame to go around. There’s welfare and then there’s corporate welfare. And if you are not getting the mortgage deduction on a house because you rent, a loan for a house of any kind might look good. The sad thing is that some of those people could have qualified for a FHA loan but were instead steered to something a lot more risky. Personally, I think the little guy deserves more of a break than Wall Street. Some of those who were foreclosed missed payments because of loss of a job or an illness. We ought to find out who those people are and offer them a boost up.
    As for the Barack Hussein Obama thing, we generally don’t go there on this blog. There are other places on the web where you can get your fill of Husseining, the birth certificate and Larry Craig. It’s just not our thing.

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