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Late Night: A Poetic Respite

It’s been a long hard slog through this long presidential election cycle. The primaries were exciting. It was so much fun watching Hillary beat the pants off Barack in the debates. But now that Hillary has been banished to the Senate cloakroom or sent out to the territories to try to convince bitter, gun-toting working people to vote for The Anointed One, the election seems interminably dull. Thank goodness it will be over soon.

Tonight, to break the monotony of the campaign, and to soothe those Conflucians whose nerves are frazzled by the precarious state of our financial system, we have a snarky poem by regular commenter John in CA that reviews the what we’ve all been through in the past many months.

Epic Madness: Story of the 2008 Election
by John in CA

Back in time, over two hundred years,
By documents which a nation reveres,
A more perfect union’s foundations were laid
By which we once a Republic were made.

Lest all the power be seized by the one,
A rigorous separation was done,
So that three branches all power would share,
And no man to seize the totality dare.

Our founding fathers, though it’s little discussed,
For popular vote had exiguous trust,
Lest a democracy mob rule denote,
Instead, they ordained the electoral vote.

Securely in history, then, you will trace
This madness of the quadrennial race,
Hardly new were the campaigning or strife,
Only the actors were larger than life.

A senator has clearly established her fame,
When she’s known sufficiently by her first name,
One named Hillary let the gambit begin,
Announcing that she was in it to win.

From Chicago her chief competition emerged,
Whose popularity had recently surged,
With fanfare announced was his candidacy,
Though he spoke from Springfield, no Lincoln was he.

Opposing them, an old warrior with scars,
Who had been tortured for the Stripes and the Stars,
A maverick known to all parties was he,
Though few thought the final triumph he’d see.

The toast of the big town, America’s mayor,
Not long took his candidacy to declare,
He seemed to have vanished some time in the fall,
One wondered if he’d been campaigning at all.

The governor of Massachusetts declared
Himself in the race but unevenly fared,
With much money spent and few primaries won,
He exited promptly– like father, like son.

By custom, Iowa winnowed the field,
A folksy Arkansan the victory sealed,
But when other victories he could not secure,
Naught but his own loss he’d proved to ensure.

The maverick senator prevailed after all,
His party’s standard he’d carry this fall,
The other side still had no nominee,
Barry or Hillary– who would it be?

In caucus and primary, victory they sought,
In epic manner the battles were fought,
When Barry’s soldiers overpowered their foes,
Hillary’s quest was doomed to its last throes.

So Barry emerged on top in the race,
His party’s majority gave him the embrace,
A gun to a knife fight he said he’d bring,
Like Virgil, “of arms and the man” must we sing?

The voters, to whom the definitive voice
By tradition belongs, now establish their choice,
Their country’s fate in the balance now hangs,
Of anguish, patriots groan in their pangs.

The poet, perhaps, but an idler seems,
Of goodness and beauty abstractly he dreams,
And as the heart moved him, so did he relate
The epic campaign of two thousand and eight.

Quadrennial madness now having braved,
Naught but his country’s salvation he craved,
And howbeit seekers of office behaved,
Heaven he prays that the Republic be saved.

Thank you so much for sharing your poem with us, John.

This is an open thread.

163 Responses

  1. OT, sorry, but guys the market is just a reflection of what’s going on. it rebounded because stock holders expect the Feds to act. LIBOR is going through the roof. That’s this issue. Banks either can not or will not loan to other banks. It’s not a matter of if it will happen, it’s happening.

  2. This is an open thread, but I think it would be nice to limited the “sky is falling” talk as must as possible.

    Masslib, I hope you read John’s poem.

  3. masslib — the senate is going to pass a bill; that is pretty much a given now. But I predict that after all is said & done, we will still see banks not lending even with the bailout. I haven’t seen anything to refute that. If you have, please share.

  4. Boston, of course I read the poem. This makes me miss her:

    “A senator has clearly established her fame,
    When she’s known sufficiently by her first name,
    One named Hillary let the gambit begin,
    Announcing that she was in it to win.”

    Boston, I am NOT saying the sky is falling. Indeed, i don’t believe it is. But, it’s not a matter of if this is happening. Take a look at LIBOR. It’s happening. Why do you think Hill is supporting this? She’s been warning about derivatives and these bad loans for years.

  5. Good point, Charles. I remember you talking about that too. I think Nixon would be approving of Obama’s smear tactics as well.

  6. Charles — I think it is both — running in one state for sure, but fund raising to run it in more.

  7. masslib:

    I’m not disagreeing with you, but what I am seeing is shifting justifications for the bailout.

    We need someone with credibility to go before the voter and explain:

    a) The problem

    b) The solution

    It needs to be bipartisan or nonpartisan, like a forum with Q&A at the end.

    Maybe a panel of Congressional leaders, the Sec’ty of the Treasury, and some economists.

    Maybe they could appoint the Big Dawg to head a commission, and let him present it with the others sitting behind him.

    It needs to be explained and sold to the American people by someone they trust.

  8. That wasn’t directed at you, masslib. It was meant to complement the post.

  9. angienc, on September 30th, 2008 at 11:36 pm Said:

    masslib — the senate is going to pass a bill; that is pretty much a given now. But I predict that after all is said & done, we will still see banks not lending even with the bailout. I haven’t seen anything to refute that. If you have, please share.

    Hmm. Way above my pay grade. But I’ll tell you this, if we do nothing it will happen because it already is. Maybe Charles can explain this.

  10. As a matter of fact, I’m going to make a post with that as a detailed proposal

  11. I see a difference between Nixon & Obama — Nixon, I truly believe in my completely unqualified opinion, suffered from some type of an undiagnosed paranoid disorder (not that that excuses him). Obama is just a lying, cheating skunk.

  12. I think Hillary could explain it all even better than Bill, and a lot of people trust her. She earned that trust during the primaries. God forbid Barack should have to swallow a little of his pride and let her talk to the American people.

  13. Angie:

    Please don’t insult skunks like that!

  14. Actually, if you read all the things Hillary has said, she explains it well, as do Bill. Certainly better than the two clown running. My Mom said that tonight. She said without Hill it just sounds like two clowns bickering. Sad.

  15. Bill would be better because he isn’t running for anything ever again.

  16. angie,

    The difference I see is that Nixon actually had a conscience. He sometimes felt bad about hurting people and had to overcome that in order to stomp them down. Obama, on the other hand, has no empathy at all for anyone but himself. I don’t think he feels the slightest twinge of guilt about any of the people he has hurt.

  17. myiq — in your post, please ask that the Congress also hold some hearings and take some expert testimony because I’m willing to bet my life on the fact that 99% of the members of both the House & the Senate don’t understand the financial market.

  18. bb — agreed. I’m on record as saying I believe (again in my completely unqualified opinion) that Obama is a sociopath.

  19. Good news. I fixed my computer. It wasn’t connecting to the power source and I was too cheap to take it to a shop (I’m currently unemployed and getting desperate). I got the courage to try it myself and I’m glad I did. It was just a lose connection to the motherboard. Had to take the whole thing apart, but it was a simple fix.

    Now I can get to writing my novel!

  20. myiq — mea culpa — I don’t know why I did that — Pepe LePew was always my favorite.

  21. sod,

    I think Nixon had a little more empathy for other people than Obama does. I didn’t say he was a good guy. He won his first election by smearing a woman candidate as a communist.

  22. Nixon was a blue collar guy. He related very well to the working class. he was no elitist. I also tend to think he was more liberal than Obama.

  23. Charles — is PA so solid for Obama that there is no chance? Because Obama just recently took on the NRA over ads in PA and I can’t see him faring well with that.

  24. Great poem. Thanks for sharing.

    MountainSage

  25. Oui oui, mi amor!

  26. Have you ever heard G.Gordon Liddy on his radio show talk about what went on back then?

    That’s actually what some of Obama’s more ethically challenged supporters remind me of– the plumbers. Claiming that Sarah Palin faked a pregnancy? It really reminds me of Watergate and the Canuck Letter stuff.

  27. masslib — we can agree on that — Nixon was more liberal then Obama. The universe is upside down.

  28. Pepe Le Pew ees how you say? Zee sexy god!

  29. SOD — LOL

  30. I don’t care what they decide at this POINT

    I WANT FANNIE AND FREDDIE OUT OF BUSINESS

    AND THE REST OF THEM IN JAIL.

    I”ll live with anything ELSE, except ACORN

  31. Charles,

    Yes, and I went over to your site to look at the polls. I was relieved to see that McCain is still leading in Indiana. I firmly believe that Obama will underperform the polls in the general election as he did in the primaries. Of course, someone is going to have to keep an eye on the mayor of Gary this time.

  32. sod,

    My comparison of Nixon and Obama was intended to demonstrate the absolute depravity of Barack. He is worse than even Nixon. I wasn’t say that to praise Nixon.

    I guess I wasn’t clear.

  33. Oui, oui mon cherie, j’adore Pepe Le Pew!

  34. myiq:

    You got it right with some of your points.

    It’s shockingly amazing that no one in the country right now can go on teevee and explain to Joe Schmoe what the current credit crunch means for the economy. It’s so simple.

    Where’s Obama? As always in hiding waiting to reap the benefits for something he didn’t do, rather than for something he did. Why can he go out there and states what will make the bill palpable to him? I always tell my relatives during our screaming contests that Obama has balls the size of peas.

  35. I want Fannie and freddie out of the quasi-private status and managed by the feds. i’m sorry, millions of low income families are helped to purchase their homes through these agencies. Did things run amok? Absolutely. But it was run quite well under Bill Clinton. It’s a good program. It just shouldn’t be quasi-private.

  36. John,

    Thank you for your thoughtful and well-crafted poem. I admire anyone, that write such wonderful poety. It is truly a gift from the universe.

    This paragraph, struck me, as something I have been thinking about recently:

    “The voters, to whom the definitive voice
    By tradition belongs, now establish their choice,
    Their country’s fate in the balance now hangs,
    Of anguish, patriots groan in their pangs.”

    I wonder, what in the world, our Founding Fathers would think of the debacle that our country is currently experiencing. I wish we had their wisdom to guide us. Our leaders have lost their way. Only Senator Clinton and President Clinton seem to care for the invisible people.

  37. masslib,

    Nixon was more liberal than Bill Clinton. Both parties have moved that far to the right, unfortunately.

  38. angienc, on September 30th, 2008 at 11:41 pm Said:
    I see a difference between Nixon & Obama — Nixon, I truly believe in my completely unqualified opinion, suffered from some type of an undiagnosed paranoid disorder (not that that excuses him). Obama is just a lying, cheating skunk.

    bo has a similar undiagnosed disorder AND he is a lying cheating skunk

  39. Nah, he wasn’t really more liberal than BC. Definitely more liberal than BO. Here’s another Obama/Nixon similarity. Both are intent on killing any chance at universal health care. Two peas in a pod.

  40. Oh, and I think they are both running on secret plans to end the war. Heh.

  41. MABlue: “I always tell my relatives during our screaming contests that Obama has balls the size of peas.”

    I’m the only Obama holdout left in my family. Even my mother has agreed to put up a yard sign. It’s hopeless. I haven’t spoken to my sister for two weeks. I don’t like screaming fights, so I’m not going to call her for awhile.

  42. sod,

    I got that. I was being snarky back. I think we get each other OK, LOL!

  43. Nixon actually cared a little about the environment. And he instituted a wage price freeze to stop the out-of-control inflation in the early ’70s.

  44. I agree that Fannie & Freddie should be out of business, but I also think an entire new CRA program should be enacted; that is, I actually think that Fannie & Freddie are so broken it is better to throw them out & start fresh — like a really broken down house — cheaper & more efficient to just tear it down and rebuild rather then try to renovate it.

  45. Here is a fun fact – Richard Nixon graduated from the same law school (3rd in his class) that currently publishes the Alaska Law Review.

    The university is?

  46. masslib,

    Secret plans to end the war. {{ shudder }} Nighmare time. If Obama bombs Pakistan it could end up just as bad as Nixon’s “plan” did too. Let’s hope he doesn’t get the chance.

  47. BB:

    I was begging to switch family. It was so bad especially in the primaries that we stop talking about politics.

    You know when pollster say blacks are 9 to 1 for Obama, I am THE ONE, comfortably so. This is nothing new for me.

    When Bush had 91% approval, I was among the 9% and now people can join our group of dead-enders fast enough.

  48. SOD is right in one! Duke it is.

  49. Duke publishes the Alaska Law Review? That’s an odd tidbit of information.

  50. Yeah, the EPA…but Nixon did something crappy against the environment. Can’t remember what it was though.

  51. Nixon – started EPA and OSHA. He introduced a plan for Universal Health Care. He lobbied hard for and signed Title IX. He started affirmative action. He started a minority business ownership program. I think he was also responsible for the act (I think it was the fair credit act) that allowed women to actually get credit in their own name and buy a house without their father signing for it.

    He was more liberal than BC.

  52. I wonder, what in the world, our Founding Fathers would think of the debacle that our country is currently experiencing.

    Thanks for the kind words, Birdgal. I think the Founding Fathers would be proud of this country and its grandeur, but horrified beyond their wildest nightmares about the current election, national debt, and financial crisis.

    What I find fascinating is that there is no constitutional scenario where our votes directly elect the president. We vote for our state legislatures, which determine the manner in which the *electors* are chosen, and the electors technically elect the president.

    Electors, are you kidding me? I mean, who has electors besides the Holy Roman Empire?

  53. MABlue,

    My family are going to vote for Obama because they want to “vote for the Democrat.” It’s pretty half-hearted. But they can’t understand why I think he’s so dreadful. Of course I’ve told them over and over again, but they just block it out. They can’t face reality. The sad thing is my mom really knows I’m right.

  54. bb — Duke probably publishes more law reviews then the Alaska law review — most of the “not top tier” law schools have to outsource the publication of their law reviews and that outsourcing is usually to academic publishers (like Duke or Yale).

  55. bostonb- I picked up the Duke Chronicle (daily paper) while waiting for a table at my favorite local diner a couple weeks ago and they had an article about the Law Review. I had not realized that Alaska has no law school. Apparently one of the law professors at Duke is a native of Alaska.

    A copy of the Alaska Law Review is mailed to every attorney in Alaska – approx. 3,000.

  56. sod — about that Berg lawsuit — I have a hard time believing that it is going to go anywhere — the judge is a Democrat (although he was appointed by Bill Clinton) so I wouldn’t get up too much hope.
    But as to Larry Sinclair — please give a summary — inquiring minds want to know.

  57. OK, folks. I have to try to get some sleep. I have to work hard tomorrow teaching.

    John, I really enjoyed your poem. Since I’m an eternal optimist, I look forward to you writing another one to record Obama’s downfall.

    Charles, I just hope things work out for you in the long run. I already thought we were headed for serfhood, so I guess this meltdown hasn’t surprised me that much. I’ve been expecting it for years.

    Good night all.

  58. anon – aren’t you late for a meeting?

  59. anon, bless your heart, the only pathetic whiner I see around here is you. Now kindly eff off.

  60. Gee, I couldn’t escape without seeing the troll. What do they get out of posting their silly comments? Some people are just beyond bizarre.

  61. night bb

  62. that was quick – anon gone

  63. bb — they get $2.50 an hour from Obama — d’oh!

  64. thanks Charles.

  65. L’shanah tovah, folks! Have some brisket and challah, tzimmis and noodles, apples and honey. May your New Year be sweet.

  66. Charles;

    Have you notice how long Paul Krugman has been warning about this. Remember that he’s been obsessively observing the TED Spread for almost a year and writing about the insecurity in the credit market. He was derided by many as a perennial doomsayer.

    This is starting to feel a bit like 1998.

  67. Charles,

    Tony Rezko is having “intense” daily meetings with federal prosecutors leading up to his sentencing one week before the election. I’d say there’s a good chance “something” could still derail Obama before Nov. 5. If Rezko wants to avoid spending life in prison, he needs to make a deal soon.

  68. angie – they don’t just publish, it is written at Duke.

  69. sod — no, I have heard all about him & watched his youtube videos. I was just wondering if he had anything “new” to say.

  70. btw — just call me angie

  71. Dee — oh — I never would have guessed that — but it makes sense that alaska doesn’t have a law school (too small).

  72. That’s good to know Charles. I was worried about you. I’m glad you’ll be OK. I’m worried about the country too, but I’m a lot more worried about the Constitution than this crisis.

  73. Um, Nixon new the employer private health care scheme was a scam. He knew it would fail from the outset. He didn’t tell the people and went ahead with it anyway. He was not more liberal than Bill Clinton.

  74. Is anyone on this blog donating to McCain?

  75. I guess the issue why this “rescue” plan won’t restore the liquidity in the credit market is because financial institutions will still have underperforming assets on their balance sheets. They will write them down over them putting aside reserves to do so. That takes time, at least a few years. Second, these credit derivative swaps are hard to trace so no one is really sure how bad their portfolios really are. Third, investor confidence just doesn’t bounce back. Fourth, the US govt is spending way too much and that eats up liquidity that otherwise could go to the financial markets. Fifth, this is now a truly global so overseas liquidity isn’t available.

    Hmm, Hill said all these things today, but she still supports it in the short-term. She said the Fed’s have to take over those bad assets though because no one knows where they are.

  76. angie – it really is an odd concept isn’t it? They showed a picture of the offices with a state flag, a whale hanging from the ceiling and posters/pics of Alaska on all of the walls.

  77. Lizgranny, on October 1st, 2008 at 12:20 am Said:

    Is anyone on this blog donating to McCain?

    No.

  78. no donation to McCain by me

  79. Why leave when I find everyone’s comments so amusing (inconsequential but still amusing nonetheless). Poor disillusioned women. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Don’t be sore losers, it isn’t attractive.

  80. Subhuman slime at aisle 12:33.

  81. Charles, they probably really thought that because the repubs have always tried to do away with Freddie and Fannie. They totally effed up, both the truth is most House Members have know economic savvy. Frank is a disappointment, though. He knows better.

  82. sorry, “no” not “know”.

  83. John in CA says: “What I find fascinating is that there is no constitutional scenario where our votes directly elect the president. We vote for our state legislatures, which determine the manner in which the *electors* are chosen, and the electors technically elect the president. ”

    If I remember my history correctly, the Founding Fathers decided on the electoral college, to put some limits on the masses, The following paragraph in your poem illustrates this:

    “Our founding fathers, though it’s little discussed,
    For popular vote had exiguous trust,
    Lest a democracy mob rule denote,
    Instead, they ordained the electoral vote.”

    Thus, it was done to prevent mob rule. I wonder, if it has outlived it usefulness?

    What I learned from this election, is that our votes counted for nada at the convention. Our delegates were supposed to vote the preference of their consituents, but they voted based on the dictates of the leadership of the dimocratic (not a typo) party. Thus, this nominee was selected, not elected. Our Founding Fathers would not like this.

  84. Thanks for the info. I read this blog all the time and comment some. I just started to donate because I think he is being outspent and is slipping in the polls.

  85. Well, thanks Charles, you are filling me with hope. How the F*CK could the Democrats give us BO this year, when we NEED Hillary. Man, like I said yesterday, I’d rather it be Edwards and his 20 odd illegitimate children. At least he knew enough about policy and his heart was in the right place.

  86. For a really good look into the dark side of Nixon, read The Arrogance Of Power by Anthony Summers. Far from being in the least empathetic or egalitarian, Nixon was capable of that Germanic sort of sentimentalism that’s easily squared with rendering humans beings into Lifebuoy soap, and boy, did he love him some cash in the vault, ill-gotten more often than not, along with rubbing shoulders with the fattest of cats. The little people didn’t concern him in the least.

    The Nixon that Summers portrays is scary to the nth degree, and yes, Obama is not unlike him in many ways. Nixon never met a means he didn’t mind using to achieve his own ends, and they were very ugly at times. He seemed to be virtually incapable of caring about anything/anyone other than himself and did indeed have a mother complex (the redoubtable Hannah was a terrible template for anyone’s soul). Nixon didn’t give a fig for his country’s welfare or integrity; these were merely markers in an endless game of wits, cheap props in the theater of politics. He was intelligent, yes, but craftiness and subterfuge were his real strengths. Matter of fact, Obama even physically resembles Nixon at moments, especially when he’s visibly angry.

  87. Lizgranny, on October 1st, 2008 at 12:20 am Said:
    Is anyone on this blog donating to McCain?

    I made a small donation a couple of months ago. I was already maxed out to Senator Clinton.

  88. Electors are decided by each state. Most states have in there constitution provisions that tie their electors directly to the popular vote of the state. That’s why the electoral college is almost always what you expect, unlike our primary this go-round. (Of course, I think some jack-ass cast his/her electoral vote for Edwards rather than Kerry last time.)

    There is a movement to tie the electoral college vote of each state directly to the national popular vote and have this in the constitution. The thing is, not every state has to agree, just enough states to decide the election, and the participating states will only tie their electoral votes to the pop vote if there are enough states to decide the outcome. It’s within the constitutional framework and is working its way through several state legislatures.

  89. Not a whole lot I can do at this point.

  90. My problem with donating $ to McCain is that I’ve heard that the funds won’t necessarily be used for his campaign. They could be deployed to the rightest of wingnuts, and then I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.

  91. sod — do you want me to read the motions & briefs, or to just generally explain standing? Standing is a question of whether a person has the legal “right” to initiate the lawsuit. The usual rule is that a person has to show (1) that he/she is directly & actually harmed by the conduct of the defendant (the person being sued). Actual harm is usually called “injury in fact” and cannot be a hypothetical injury. (2) Additionally, the person seeking to initiate the action must show a link between the injury and the the actions of the defendant. This is usually called a “causal relationship between the injury and the challenged conduct. (3) Finally, the person seeking to initiate the action must show damages; that is, that the prospect of obtaining relief from the injury by a favorable ruling is not speculative.
    The court examines these 3 things to determine whether a person has standing. To try to put it in simpler terms, say my mother is crossing the street, is hit by a car, breaks a lot of bones, but survives. She has standing to sue the driver of the other car because she had actual injury (broken bones, etc), the driver of the other car caused the injury and the court can redress the injury with an award of money (to pay for hospital bills, pain & suffering, etc). I, as her daughter, however cannot sue the driver of the car because I wasn’t the one who was actually injured — my mother was. The concept of standing in this case is easy to see because we have easy to visualize injury (broken bones). In a case like Berg’s it is more difficult because his “injury” is more esoteric. I hope that helps (it’s late, I’m not sure it does).

  92. Charles,

    they are trying to raise the money to run it now.

  93. Kat5 – I didn’t know that. I’m all for changing the balance in the House in case BO gets in. I want Pelosi demoted.

  94. masslib,
    I’m not sure that Edwards wasn’t in this thing to be a spoiler. He knew about the affair but ran anyway. Also, he was directly involved in the media pile-on of Hillary. He and Obama gave the media license to start going after Hillary in a sexist “claws come out” sort of way. If you remember, through most of the summer of 2007, the media was writing stories about how the myth of evil Hillary was just that: a myth. They wrote about how she worked to win converts in New York and in the Senate. The media were begging for Edwards and Obama to go after Hillary on a personal level and they did. Edwards was one of the first to go negative and personal. He helped usher in the gross misogyny that we experienced and still see today with Palin.

  95. I don’t know what to do! I feel like tearing my hair out here! I sort of resigned myself to voting Dem top to bottom because wouldn’t the country be better off with Dem’s running things, even half-assed, incompetents? And, with the econ tanking, we might ride a wave and pick up bigger majorities in the House and Senate. I mean, I just can not hear another 4 years of “low taxes” “deregulation”. Then I read something about this clown and I worry. I really worry. I mean, who do I want running the depart of health and human services? NOT another repub, so Dem’s better than a repub. But man, Obama? I don’t know. I feel sick. We may very well end in a depression. It could happen. I think it could. Maybe the empire is finally falling, and our candidate is running ads against us safety net “extremist” who know Medicare is NOT “government run Health care” and that even paying a bit more in taxes would make it less expensive than the private bs we are buying now.

  96. Kat5, on October 1st, 2008 at 12:36 am Said:
    My problem with donating $ to McCain is that I’ve heard that the funds won’t necessarily be used for his campaign. They could be deployed to the rightest of wingnuts, and then I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.

    I donated during the primary season, before the conventions.

  97. gp – I agree – Edwards was the spoiler. Also, I have never heard anyone say he had trouble with campaign debt? Did someone help him out after the dropped out?

  98. the=he

  99. bb — i’m not so sure Nixon had a conscience. Have you ever heard G.Gordon Liddy on his radio show talk about what went on back then?

    Holy Cow — it will curl the hair in your armpits.

  100. Yeah, Edwards is scum, but he called himself a Democrat every chance he got. I’d still rather vote for him than this idiot.

  101. gq – And then there was the Boyz Ballot Plot in Michigan, in which Edwards was instrumental. I’ll always despise him for that.

  102. Sure, Obama is bad. But the questions I’ve been trying to have answered is a.) how and why did he get so much early money from big donors (it seems unprecedented that such a neophyte with zero clout could get such a big early stash) and b.) how/why did he get the backing of the DNC and Dem leadership? Were they trying to make a point about nominating the first black president (having his acceptance speech on the MLK speech anniversary)? Were they trying to have someone they could control? Someone so weak that they could use scare tactics to win more congressional seats?

    I’m starting to think that the current financial crisis may be linked. I’m starting to think that we are going to find out about more bad sh*t hitting the fan.

  103. Charles…It’s a pretty good saturation.

  104. gq – Did you see Cavuto ( sp ) interview Ferraro and go on about her hairstyle during her debate ? Ferraro said it wasn’t the hair, it was the intelligence inside her head.

  105. I haven’t given McPalin any money yet but I will. I’m not nearly maxed out to Hill so my spare money goes to her and McPalin in the coming months.

  106. ggmartinez — I agree with you about Edwards — I turned off of him after his despicable comments in NH about a “president needing to reign in emotions” or some such horsesh!t. He played up the false meme that Hillary was “crying hysterically” when she only got a little misty eyed (which I’ve seen male politicians do a million effing times).

  107. Charles says: “However electors are not bound to vote for the candidate they support. In 2004, one Minnesota elector did cast a ballot for Edwards. Bentsen also got an electoral vote in 1988 (West Virginia I think). These electors are called “unfaithful.” It was more a problem in the 19th century.”

    I thought that CA law, and the law in 13 states, stated that delegates had to vote with the results of their congressional districts on the first ballot. This did not happen in Denver.

  108. Charles, I wish you would explain LIBOR to the folks at Corrente because they have this idiot post up about how anecdotally they think the credit markets and the banks are totally doing great and this is all myth.

  109. I no longer believe that everyone who calls themselves a Democrat is one. I certainly won’t vote for their labels.

  110. Yes. He had more emphathy.

  111. This is totally off topic but I am not looking forward to Gwen Ifill moderating the Palin/Biden debate.

  112. masslib,

    I can’t help think that the choice of Obama has a lot to do with some bad sh*t in the Dem leadership. Keep in mind that he was pretty much hand selected and essentially forced on us by the Dems–at the end, after it was beyond reasonable doubt that the Dems had chosen Hillary and were doing so in increasing numbers, they still had to try to force Hillary out. Why? It makes no sense? Hillary was clearly the stronger candidate and had a huge popular vote advantage among Democrats.

    Add to that the RBC debacle, the MI/FL thievery, and the use of sexism and false charges of racism & the RFK smear. That’s electoral fraud and some of the filthiest tactics ever used by Dems. Sorry, but there has to be a reason why the Dems allowed this sh*t to go down and I have little confidence in the perpetrators. If Obama loses, it would lead to a significant change in Dem leadership and that would be a good thing. An Obama win would mean a degeneration of the entire party into vote stealers and smut peddlers. I find that much worse than 4 years of McCain with a more powerful Hilary/Clinton wing of the Party.

  113. Night all.

  114. masslib –first off, there is no reason to drive yourself crazy about this — now matter who wins the fact is this is a strong country and the 2 parties are not as different as we like to think (as opposed to the parties in other countries where an election can actual change the political system). But, I can’t agree with you on voting Dem top to bottom and I’ll tell you why: 1. The next president is more likely then not going to be rearranging deck chairs on the titanic — he isn’t getting re-elected no way, no how. I’d rather that guy be a Republican because 2. If that guy is a Dem then the Dems are out of the WH and out of the majority of Congress for probably 16 more years. More importantly 3. Obama isn’t a real Dem — why should the real Dems suffer for Obama? If the Dems should be out of power, let it be because they enacted (or tried to enact) real Dem. policies that failed, not for Republican policies labeled “D.” Finally, 4. the only way to get real Dem principles back into the Dem party is for Obama to lose. If Obama loses, Hillary becomes the most powerful person in the Dem. party & she can turn it back into the party of FDR. If Obama wins, at least what I consider real Dem principles are gone forever. All of this may seem cold hearted but it’s politics, not a tea party. Pelosi, et al didn’t care about Dem principles when they gamed the primary for Obama — I want it to back fire on them and show them who really has the power & who they have to answer to (us, the voters).

  115. bb — I’m just being snarky. I get ya. 🙂

  116. Regency,
    Keep in mind that many Obama supporters are very recent Republicans: Huffington, Kos, Aravosis. Also, Kos is a self described Libertarian. Honestly, I’d take a religious fundie over a libertarian any day. At least fundies have a sense of compassion about the poor.

  117. Can you imagine that happening today?

  118. Oh, and Charles they have a whole post with comments bashing her for saying essentially what you did. WTF do they want from her? Her and BC went everywhere and anywhere last week talking about HOLC. Obama, the Dem leadership, mcCain all failed to pick up the ball. She’s not you know, the nominee, certainly not President, or even in a leadership position. A**holes!

  119. gqmartinez, I believe the goal, was to get rid of Senator Clinton. She isn’t, as easy to control as BO might be.. Look at the financial backers. Wall Street, media, and large corporations support him. They wanted a puppet. The left wing of the dimocratic party, did not want a centrist democrat, such as Senator Clinton. She actually cares about the invisible people. She does not fit into the “new creative class democratic” party. She is an FDR democrat; Bo isn’t.

  120. Duke?

  121. you’re right, angie. A vote for Obama is a vote to shift the Dem Party into a more libertarian party. And while I’m not voting for McCain, he really is a shift to the left for the GOP. Obama shifts everything to the right, McCain shifts everything to the left. Also, I’m starting to believe that the downticket Dems need to feel some heat as well. Many of them are responsible for Obama being thrust upon us.

  122. I’ve been back and forth between the “My 2 Cents” show and here. Boy…what a cast of characters over there!

  123. PS — on a purely personal note, a vote for Obama is, imo, a vote condoning the actions of him & the DNC both in voting fraud & sexism. I consider myself a woman first, an American second and then political parties come into play. As a woman and as an American, I cannot condone that conduct. “No self respecting woman should work for or support a party that does not respect her self.” Susan B. Anthony.

  124. angle,
    Couldn’t have said it better. That is exactly how I feel, though I really think that the Dems will be out 20 -30 years, not just 16.

  125. Charles, I doubt you could get banned at Corrente for saying you’d vote for Nader. I’m pretty vocal about not voting for any candidate and I always challenge BO supporters. I also see some posters who plan to vote for McCain. In fact, the whole concept of PB2.0 being developed there is about being “Party Invariant” (my lovely term inspired by Einstein).

  126. Damn. I have never received a log in from them. I am so upset. They sound just like pb 1.0. Now Hillary’s an ass*ole because she’s not fighting hard enough for HOLC! Jesus, what do you want, no one is listening to her OR the former flippen’ President. Then, she’s really just part of the Village. Idiots! They don’t understand this at all. I am still struggling myself, but I know that LIBOR increase means big trouble.

  127. I’m with you angie, but I think the quote should be more like: “No self respecting PERSON should work for or support a party that does not respect EVERY OTHER PERSON.” The Dems are losing me on that one. That the sexist sh*t was so easily transferred from Hillary to Palin only shows how f**ked up the Dem Party has become. And the fact that they justify their BS.

    [Sometimes profanity is the only way to express certain deep held feelings.]

  128. masslib, it took months for me to get a login to corrente. It weeds out some of the jack-asses. And the thing I like about Corrente is that you don’t have to agree with everything there. I certainly don’t agree with everything/everyone here but I don’t feel comfortable pointing out my disagreements because there is a near total flame war that ensues–from my experience. Things can get heated at corrente but I still feel respected by the vast majority (with the exception of a few know-it-alls).

  129. Hey anon — your father is a hamster and your mother smells of elderberry.

  130. angienc — you mean you’ve never heard of him?

  131. Oh no, he was just setting up some public appearance stuff.

  132. ggmartinez — I fully agree — sometimes there is no better word to describe what you are feeling then a four letter one.
    The sexist sh*t being transfered so easily to Palin also belied their primary argument that it “wasn’t any woman, just this one” re: Hillary. Funny how none of them mention that. The sad this is that I always thought it was only the GOP that was made up of overgrown frat boys and pathetic women who followed them blindly. Ha! I learned the hard way. They really do disgust me.

  133. Charles — it is corrente & TL’s loss.

  134. Angie — Can you distill this legal garble into layman’s terms?

  135. Alright all who are left — to quote Cher from Clueless — I’m outie! Good night.

  136. Charles,
    It’s hard for me to figure out if Jaralyn or Taylor Marsh had the biggest change after the primary. I don’t mind their support of Obama, but the way they condescend and kick out dissenters was shocking.

  137. I need to go watch the Charmed episodes I DVR’d…and update my computer that’s been dead for a month. Buenas noches, amigos!

  138. GQ @12:55 am Said:

    {I can’t help think that the choice of Obama has a lot to do with some bad sh*t in the Dem leadership. Keep in mind that he was pretty much hand selected and essentially forced on us by the Dems–at the end, after it was beyond reasonable doubt that the Dems had chosen Hillary and were doing so in increasing numbers, they still had to try to force Hillary out. Why? It makes no sense? Hillary was clearly the stronger candidate and had a huge popular vote advantage among Democrats.

    Add to that the RBC debacle, the MI/FL thievery, and the use of sexism and false charges of racism & the RFK smear. That’s electoral fraud and some of the filthiest tactics ever used by Dems. Sorry, but there has to be a reason why the Dems allowed this sh*t to go down and I have little confidence in the perpetrators. If Obama loses, it would lead to a significant change in Dem leadership and that would be a good thing. An Obama win would mean a degeneration of the entire party into vote stealers and smut peddlers. I find that much worse than 4 years of McCain with a more powerful Hilary/Clinton wing of the Party.}

    This is why I have no doubt about my not voting for BZero – there are too many huge glaring RED flags. I do not recognize “D” in any of the charade – the costly grotesque primary/convention. This has been an experience I hope we never ever see again. There has been no pretense of fairness or truth from the powers to be. I fear greatly what they have in mind to do and what they already have done. I don’t need to be hit with a two by four any more than 12 or 15 times before I get the message. I am concerned about voters who do not see the corruption or do not care – America is surely developing an enormous number of ethically challenged people. What goes around, comes around. I am old enough to know it is true. I also see a hedonistic streak that puts all other generations to shame. What is done to others can and will be done to you. You don’t have to be religious to understand that.

    gq – glad you got your computer going – hope everything else in your life gets going too.

  139. I plan to vote a straight Republican ticket for the first time in my life (no regrets).

  140. Charles,

    Thank you. You clarified, what I was thinking. I didn’t mean to confuse the DNC rules and the electoral college. They are two different entities.

    The framers of the Constitution were very wise people.

  141. It does…thanks angie

  142. I was banned at Corrente for repeated “zombie talking points”

    I said that Obama’s relationship with William “The Weatherman” Ayers was relevant to whether he was a good candidate.

    I also said that the full extent of the relationship is still unknown.

    Lambert told me to provide “linky goodness’ about Ayers and then immediately banned me before I could provide them

  143. If Chales was banned too then I am in really good company

  144. James Madison’s Federalist #10, on the difference between pure democracy, the republic, and the dangers of factions…

    http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm

  145. Charles, I’m awaiting your post on the credit crisis.. I’m very low information on these issues so I really appreciate your blog and have been reading more closely of late..

    I don’t know what is happening with national polling, I wonder if the debate did have an impact. I will say that watching it with a bunch of diehard Obama supporters, the best anyone had to say after ward was that it was a draw.

  146. Charles:

    I can understand deleting OT comments, profanity or ad hominem attacks, but banning someone who has been a regular for over a year because you no longer agree with them is BS.

    I got banned for commenting on a post last week about McCain not rushing back to DC to solve the crisis – I said “Meanwhile, what has Obama done? Nothing”

    I think it’s hypocritical to bash McCain when Obama is doing the same thing. Or not doing it, I guess is more accurate

  147. Am I being persnickety (already regret using that word), but isn’t there some incongruence between Gwen Ifill releasing a pro-Obama book around Inaguration Day and being the moderator of the VP debate? Just saying…

  148. Am I being persnickety (already regret using that word), but isn’t there some incongruence between Gwen Ifill releasing a pro-Obama book around Inaguration Day and being the moderator of the VP debate? Just saying…

    Well that’s interesting.

  149. SO cHARLES, IF THIS BILL ISN’T BUYING UP THOSE ASSETS THAT YOU AND hILLARY FEEL ONLY THE GOVERNMENT CAN FIND AND BUY, UM, WILL IT JUST HELP SHORT-TERM?

  150. I just checked Taylor Marsh for the first time since she went over for Obama (obviously unaware of the Convention fraud). She has one quarter of the comments she used to have.

    Is Gwen Ifill able to come up with compelling reasons why Obama should be president, or is she voting in solidarity?

  151. There was a time when my cheek burned
    To give such scornful fiends the lie
    Ungoverned nature madly spurned
    The law that bade it not defy
    O in the days of ardent youth
    I would have given my life for truth

    For truth, for right, for liberty
    I would have gladly, freely died
    And now I calmly hear and see
    The vain man smile the fool deride
    Though not because my heart is tame
    Though not for fear though not for shame

    My soul still chafes at every tone
    Of selfish and self-blinded error
    My breast still braves the world alone
    Steeled as it ever was to terror
    Only I know however I frown
    The same world will go rolling on

    —Emily Bronte

  152. good morning computer locked up in middle of the conflusians say show took all last night to get her up and running! well at least now I can type on the sucker what did I miss overnight?

  153. You know, I know Hillary had millions of followers, I voted for her here in North Carolina during the primaries. But, it’s over, now how can we get mccain and palin elected, this is way more important than the past and the evil the dems have already done. This bailout is a dem bailout, the mccain is being forced and practically bribed to do. This place is a mess.

  154. Debate expectation game: campaign asked the media to tell us poor Joe has little chances against big bad Sarah (they comply)
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/joe-attacked-by-damsel/

  155. carolflowery: you can no longer call it a bailout. Now that Obama has been finally dragged to be on board with it, everyone calls it a “rescue”

  156. Good morning.

    Overnight musings:

    Can a Congress dependent on the corporate world for campaign contributions regulate the corporate world? Are we asking for the impossible? What are the alternatives? Will the public demand regulation? Can we institute public financing for campaigns – it may be less costly and more democratic in the long run.

    Schools deemed failures get more accountability thrust on them (over testing) than any other institution. When will the USA do better by its children?

    I’ve long held the belief that women will get their chance to lead the country when the men in power have totally messed it up. It may be sooner than we think.

  157. Nixon actually attempted to get some form of UHC for this country. Did you guys know that? He’s still a crook and a bastard, but that is amazing when you think about it.

  158. WMCB, on October 1st, 2008 at 7:42 am Said:

    Nixon actually attempted to get some form of UHC for this country.

    **************

    Then maybe it’s time for it to be a reality. That would be 40 years ago right?

    I recall someone saying (30 years ago) that we area nation of focusers. We focus on a problem for a while and then we move on to another one without solving anything. Maybe we’re just an adolescent nation with no follow through. (I’ll try not to be any more negative than this today.)

  159. purplefinn, his plan was pretty sucky, but can you imagine a conservative now even attempting or advocating for it?

    Sadly, UHC is going to be years in coming now. The money won’t be there, and the public is not going to go for it during an economic slump.

  160. WMCB, you’re probably right. Do you think we can at least expect some reforms?

  161. princess wears prada delivers a secret weapon over at hireheels.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEqm-7WmSgU in which a PUMA asks sarah palin a question about McCain’s strategies for economic empowerment for women. Palin answers exquisitely: Title IX, not Roe v. Wade, is the buzz issue for those who understand the value of healthy competition. One comes to recognize that the obots are – maybe a few soccer players, but otherwise, not very good sports.

  162. Sadly, Jack Kennedy wanted national health care. Harry Truman fought for national health care. It’s not going to happen now, thanks to the DNC shoving Obama down our throats.

  163. dee
    You’re right about it – Iffil forgot to disclose that she is writing a book called “The Age of Obama’
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/joe-attacked-by-damsel/

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