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House Bailout Does Not Pass GO

To My Reps in Congress:

I do not support the current bailout package for several reasons: 1)
hundreds of economists who reject it are not being listened to; 2) no
judicial review; 3) doesn’t help main street or homeowners; 4) doesn’t put
in place adequate oversight; 5) doesn’t provide jobs to the American
people; 6) doesn’t cut Wall St. compensation packages to greedy CEOs.

I’m not against a bailout, just this one. Is there no other plan? This fear-laden,
panicked rush to save our country is too reminiscent of how we got into
the Iraq war.

Where were Barney Frank et al when everything was melting down over the
last 7 years? Why were the largest Wall St. contributions taken by Dodd,
Obama, and Kerry? Why didn’t Congress heed Bush’s warnings to curb Wall
St. excesses and failings for years?

I’m a lifelong Democrat and ashamed of my Party, especially Pelosi, Reid,
Frank, Dodd, Obama. To blame it all on Bush is a joke. Where were the Dems
who promised to turn things around? Why didn’t Pelosi and all stop the
war, which is how they won in 2006? She’s now pontificating against the
Repubs, and her hypocrisy makes me ill. Where was she? Where was the fight
of the Dems till now?

That’s what I wrote. Did you call or write?

Foreclosures are not considered.

Party                      Yea     Nay      NV

Democratic            140      95

Republican               65    133        1

Totals                      205   228         1

Financial Markets Bill (according to my notes from C-SPAN-TV screen — I didn’t get complete full sentences on every one — I am unable to get into their website right now, it’s jammed.)

  • $700 Billion Intervention plan; a simple majority is needed.
  • Government to purchase up to $700B to buy troubled mortgage.
  • Participating companies must give the government a share in profits.
  • Treasury department must set limits on executive compensation in participating companies.
  • Treasury department must develop plan to encourage mortgage lenders to refinance homes before foreclosure.
  • Creates oversight board to review the plan’s effectiveness.
  • Authorizes insurance program.

Above is Hannity’s September 28, 2008 report. The Dems have their hand way in this, and people aren’t buying it.

An illustrated view of how we got here, h/t to V.

Congress: How about hearing from a panel of esteemed and educated economists, instead of your “leaders” trying to figure it out behind closed doors? Don’t you think they might be able to come up with a better plan? Kucinich didn’t buy it, neither did Ron Paul. Recorded vote is coming up. Here’s the tally.

Now, members are asking what would happen if they were to change their vote, and how long they have to do so. Stay tuned. There seems to be lots of yelling.

How about creating jobs? What about small business owners? What about other businesses and companies? Who bails them out? Get back to work, Congress. Revise. Make the bill better.

If this particular solution passes, will we all own Wall Street and everyone’s home? Welcome to The Commune, folks.

564 Responses

  1. I’m glad there’s a pause. Let’s hope it’s to think …

  2. It’s time for a full-scale financial panic. –bank failures, stock market crashes, huge numbers of bankruptcies, and all the rest.

    It’s probably too late to sell any stocks you might own. Check back in a few years and see how it all works out. Just don’t plan on retiring.

    In the meantime, remember the old economic adage “unsustainable trends tend not to be sustained.”

  3. Florida – remember The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy – Don’t Panic. Refrain from being a stampeded nymph just because you heard Pan’s pipes sounding through the land. Listen to the people.

  4. I just called my GOP congressman’s local office telling him he’d better work on a solution with McCain for this mess.
    (The DC office was busy … congress lines must be ringing off the hook.)

  5. I called mine too. He’s one of the republicans that voted for it. I said OK as long as ACORN doesn’t get a penny of my tax $$
    Also I heard the “golden parachuet” thing was (put nicely) “BS”.
    Nancy Pelosi should be FIRED!!!

  6. The way I see it, all of Congress/Senate are responsible for this mess over the last 10/12 years. Pelosi blames Bush (who doesn’t vote), the Republicans blame the Democrats, but every single one of them have received large financial donations, including this election cycle.

    My letter Friday said:

    Dear Senator Reid:

    Pursuant to yesterday’s Reno Gazette, you received $1.6 Million dollars from the financial industry this election cycle. As a voting taxpayer who opposes this bailout you are trying to ram through at top speed, I demand the first action is that you return EVERY penny, nickel, dime, quarter, and millions of dollars you have received. I would then expect you to demand that every Senator and Congress person return any and all money they have received from these companies and their employees who are being bailed out.

    If that can’t be done, then as a taxpayer, I demand no bailout.

  7. To be clear, as the markets drop, as I said above, I want a plan, just not that one.

    Why is Pelosi lambasting the Repubs? The Dems could have passed it ALONE, but they couldn’t. One third of their members voted Nay. Nancy, it’s because the public isn’t buying it, and even Dems are getting those calls. Look to your own party for the votes. Listen to the economists. Bring in both sides.

    Please make a better plan.

  8. That letter, in a milder tone, went to every representative in my State with the amount they’ve received.

  9. Ditto urgetocompute — It’s time to calm down and urge–hope–pray that Congress comes up with something that addresses the underlying issues. Just checked my stocks. Virtually everything is ABOVE its 52 week low. In other words, they’ve all been lower this year — though granted, not all at the same time.

  10. eat dirt barney

  11. I disassociate myself from the sentiments in this post.

  12. Remember, the worse the economy gets, the better it is for obama. Or so the dems think.

    They better think again.

  13. We need Hillary! Someone, quick — turn on the Hillary Puma signal!

    Seriously, what Reid & Pelosi et al need to do is put more Main Street and more accountability in the bill.

  14. Barney Frank makes me sick. He is forever self-righteous and condescending. The Dems have been in charge for two years now. They cannot blame Republicans for this.

  15. Who was planning on being able to retire anyway? Last I saw average Americans saw that pipe dream leave when companies let go of pensions and they saw the erosion of Social Security benefits which don’t keep up with inflation.

    Frankly, why not have everyone in the same boat? As I said previously in another thread, why not have investors and investment makers get that second job that average joes have been told to get as their jobs were outsourced. Perhaps after flipping burgers for awhile we can start to have an honest discussion on who deserves what for 40 hours worth of labor. If we are going to have a free market, it ought to apply to all the situations, not just wages and outsourcing, which just happen to benefit the investment sector.

  16. Lady Boomer, I also agree something needs to be done. However, our representatives have no problem shafting the taxpayers because it’s not their pocketbook it’s being drawn from. I used to ask my kids is this something worth being spanked over? If they truly believed this bill was the only answer, they would be willing to be spanked over it (i.e, losing their seat).

  17. plural
    this isn’t even about the economy any more.
    our leaders are fighting with each other like kids in a sandbox.
    its terrifying.
    what a bunch of lying, silly assholes!

  18. I urge everyone to read the following article entitled: “George Soros: Barack Obama’s Money Man and Agenda Puppeter”. It may explain a lot:


  19. barney just said repubs put “feeling over country”
    wtf is he talking about?

  20. how can they blame it on the repubs when over a third of their own party voted against it?

  21. I think the repubs claim that Pelosi’s speech in presenting the bill was too partisan (blaming GOP for the mess) hence they voted against it.

  22. and why the hell did they call a vote if they knew it would go down so badly????

  23. Pelosi is sick and deranged.

  24. From the votes, this was the Dem’s bill and Repugs said no…EVEN THOUGH we liberals were screaming like crazy?

    Anglachel had a scenerio that looks more and more likely to be the case: The Dems tout the bill, it dies, Pelosi “negotiaties” (e.g., compromises) and they come back with something looking suspiciously like the Repug bill, it passes and the Repugs win because voters think things have improved.


  25. catarina

    Turn off the TV. It’s just posturing. Frank is hoping that he can lay the blame on the GOP. I guess it must have escaped his notice that 65 DEMOCRATS didn’t vote for the bailout and the President(who happens to be a GOP leader) is for it.

    Quite frankly, my TV comes on to watch the Food Network or Heroes, I don’t need a pundit to tell me what I think or a politicain to tell me how I should feel.

  26. Foxnews just called it a “food fight”
    It’s a mockery, the whole process.

  27. call and write your Representatives to remind them that McCain was trying to help prevent this but the Democrats said they didn’t need his assistance.

  28. From last thread—I am coming unglued listening to Frank and Pelosi play this bullsh*t partisan game. These cretins must go. That much I know. Frank’s had his hand in the cookie jar so much he’s positively BLOATED. Nancy’s so stressed she looks like she’s stretched like a drum.

  29. This is what Paul Krugman has to say:

    September 29, 2008, 3:02 pm

    “OK, we are a banana republic

    House votes no. Rex Nutting has the best line: House to Wall Street: Drop Dead. He also correctly places the blame and/or credit with House Republicans. For reasons I’ve already explained, I don’t think the Dem leadership was in a position to craft a bill that would have achieved overwhelming Democratic support, so make or break was whether enough GOPers would sign on. They didn’t.

    I assume Pelosi calls a new vote; but if it fails, then what? I guess write a bill that is actually, you know, a good plan, and try to pass it — though politically it might not make sense to try until after the election.
    For now, I’m just going to quote myself:

    So what we now have is non-functional government in the face of a major crisis, because Congress includes a quorum of crazies and nobody trusts the White House an inch.

    As a friend said last night, we’ve become a banana republic with nukes.”

  30. Why is Nancy Pelosi and the democrats playing politics with this deal today? OMG!! How dare she pull that kind of political stunt! That is unconscionable!

    Pelosi is showing absolutely NO LEADERSHIP at all. Same for Obama. No leadership. NONE!

    For God’s sake, let’s get this deal done right for America.

    WTF is Obama doing to help in all this? Not a damn thing!

    Pelosi and Obama have nobody to blame but themselves for pushing such a boondoggle of a bail out plan.

    Just call me if you need me, yeah Wright.

    No way in hell do I want Obama as President with a Pelosi led Congress.

    Why didn’t Pelosi allow the Republican version to be brought to a vote? Politics.

    DOW Jones down more than 715 points and dropping.

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  31. dow heading back down…. if it breaks it’s low, we might see a 1000 pt drop today
    hello dow 10000

  32. I don’t believe Pelosi’s speech had anything to do with them voting no, actually. The bill is too unpopular.
    What Pelosi should do, imo, if she is ruthless enough, is to make a secret agreement with the GOP that she will let McCain take credit if they give her the votes.

  33. BPD, dow 10000 was around 1998. We have lost 10 years.

  34. CWaltz
    You’re right.
    TV nuked.
    will limit my viewing to Ugly Betty and Sarah Connor Chronicles.

  35. votermom, I was thinking about that. I thought maybe the house Reps are playing a game where they balk at the first vote then McCain rides in on his “white” horse and brokers a deal.

  36. Anyone in Congress that said a deal was done before John McCain came back to Washington to help, has now been caught in a lie.

    This moment in the history of our nation has spiraled down into pure politics.

    Obama does not have a clue. Pelosi does not have a clue. Harry Reid and Barney Frank do not have a clue.

    Do you all think the media will blame McCain for this?

    They better not!!

    The Democrats control the majority in Congress and Pelosi and Obama failed to get enough of their own votes in their own party to pass this Bill.

    The Bill was a boondoggle, and needs to be imporved.

    I pray that McCain and Hillary can get together today and get a deal worked out to help America.

    The Democrats led by Pelosi have failed America.

    Why didn’t she allow the Republican Bill to come up for a vote? Why did Pelosi call the newsconference today and play politics and put the blame against the Republicans? Geez. (sorry for the rant…but I am pissed off that the Democrtas, Pelosi, et al, are trying to blame McCain and the Republicans on this).

    BTW, how is everyone today? 🙂

  37. For those who hope John McCain will win, this is a disaster. The stock market will close down more than 500 points today. It could easily lose another 2,000 points over the next few weeks. We haven’t seen those levels since the early 1990s.

    The real economy will follow the equity markets and begin to hemorrhage. Those of us who don’t like Obama are watching a series of events that will devastate McCain and hand Obama the election, perhaps in a landslide.

    McCain needs to attention to turn to something other than the economy. The failure of the bail out plan means that won’t happen.

    McCain supported the bailout and his party ignored him. Not good.

  38. “I guess write a bill that is actually, you know, a good plan, and try to pass it ”
    Gotta love that Krugman — such an idealist — actually believing the Pelosi/Reid Congress would even know what a good plan looks like.
    It doesn’t make sense to try until after the election only because both parties are trying to “help” their candidate win it.

  39. WigWag — I don’t think McCain supported this bailout per se — he supports a bailout.

  40. Is Obama shooting hoops this afternoon? Obama campaign is quiet as a mouse now. Hmmm….

    You know Obama was ready to call a huge news conference to try and slam McCain and the Republicans today to try and take credit for a Bill passage.

    The Democrats could have passed this Bill themselves. Obama should only blame himself. He showed a total lack of desire to help the situation. Just call me was his plan, And he had to be dragged back to Washington kicking and screaming.

    Now is the perfect time for McCain and Hillary to stand up, once again, for America, and get this train wreck back on track. It wouod be great if McCain and Hillary could meet and get a plan together that can pass both the House and the Senate.

  41. does anyone know why the justsaynodeal web sit is down? Are we under attack by Obama and company again?

  42. WigWag, not unless Reps can pin this mess on the Dems which is not outside the realm of possiblity considering how Fannie and Freddie are at the center of this.

  43. Would somebody please call Barack now? He can be reached by phone. They need him apparently.

  44. Nope. McCain’s just fine since the Democrats and the media have run with the meme that he had nothing to do with this. This is Barack’s doing. He’s gotten all the credit, now the Dems deserve ALL the blame. They got what they paid for.

  45. Remember at CGI how McCain outlined 5 provisions he needed to see before he would support the Bailout? He was for A bailout but not the purposed bailout.

  46. angienc, he urged House members to vote for it.

    A plunging stock market and rising unemployment is bad for McCain. He needs a bailout more than Obama does. It’s hard to contemplate what type of bailout will pass, now that this one has failed.

    Hoepfully they will figure something out.

  47. Speaking of politics, what will be the fallout of Pelosi and Obama’s failure to get enough Democrat votes in the House.

    Not surprisingly, the Democratic leadership in the House (Pelosi, Frank, etc.) is blaming the Republicans.

    Wonder what the two campaigns are doing this afternoon on all this?

  48. Pat, I know Scarlett Johansen has Obama’s cell phone number and they talk everyday. Maybe we could ask her to pass on the message.

  49. SHe is on her honeymoon Mawm

  50. I’m making brownies. This is definitely a day for brownies.

  51. IronMan, they wil have the media to help them spin it too.

  52. 95 democrats said no. That is a large number=40%, therefore Dems cannot blame it on Repugs alone. 40% of their group had misgivings or were representing misgivings of their constituents.

    It’s high time they all stop worrying about the effect of this on their chances for election, like it’s some high school prom king/queen selection. They will all lose because at some point the poeple are going to get fed up and the results won’t be pretty.

    They need to get a good and fair plan completed that can be passed in good conscience come what may in the elections. Most of them have lost touch with reality, having been too long in the rarified Congress atmosphere, to realize that this is not about them, it’s about the people.

    And frankly, maybe it is about them in the end. If they want the cash cow (taxpayers et al) to continue producing, and they want to keep those cushy jobs with benefits of the sort most of us will never see, they should make sure that it (the cow) remains healthy enough to keep producing, not merely alive. Thus they should swallow the unswallowable, and put their damn partisan politics aside and really put time in to get it right this time.

  53. McCain could look like a hero if he proposed a plan to make loans to the distressed financial institutions–guaranteeing the taxpayers would be repaid–instead of forcing the taxpayers to buy $700 billion worth of distressed assets and watch the government auction them off at giveaway prices (remember the RTC?). I think McCain has so far squandered a golden opportunity to lead on this issue. It is John Boehner who looks like the leader now. McCain should take the hint. Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Frank, Rangell and Obama are all vulnerable right now but so far McCain hasn’t gone for the jugular. Wake up, John!

  54. Remember though, the Democrats claimed they had a done deal and that McCain was not any part of it. Pelosi said this and so did Obama.

    I think McCain can once again put Country first and lead on this issue.

    But you know the media is going to try and blame anyone but Obama and Pelosi.

  55. Kim, I bet she calls Obama during her honeymoon too.

  56. Mawn

    That’s what my husband thought. Quite frankly, I believe we are watching the two party system unravel. The coalitions on both sides are not holding together.

    I do believe there are GOP members, that on principle, believe free market means free market and this would have been meddling.

    I also believe there are Democrats not in Wall Street’s pockets. People who have watched average americans get told “free market” for everything from outsourcing to wage issues.

  57. Mawm, you could be right. But it will take a pretty articulate group of spokespersons to do it. I don’t know if they can pull it off.

    I do know one thing. McCain was surging just two weeks ago until this crisis reared it’s ugly head. Since then he’s been plunging in the polls.

    I saw the earlier post and I agree with it. Polls don’t always tell the whole story. But clearly McCain has been going in the wrong direction since all this started. Thus it makes sense to conclude that things will get better for him once the crisis abates.

  58. votermom where do you live

  59. Dave, loans wouldn’t be a bail-out. They need to have a bail-out to make their cooked books look right. Wall Street isn’t going to see a loan as asset, because it would have to be paid back.

  60. Dave,

    You are exactly right. If ever there was a time for McCain to squash Obama, it is now. Seixe the moment.

    I still am hoping that McCain will get with Hillary and announce a McCain-Clinton or Clinton-McCain Economic Recovery Bill.

    Is that possible?

    That would save the day!

    Again, seize the moment. Now!

  61. I don’t really know if I see this as bad for McCain or maybe not as bad as some may think. Phone calls from citizens were coming in with one out of every thousand saying no to this plan. The republicans essentially voted no; so wouldn’t these people be pleased that the republicans saved them from a disastrous bailout.

  62. By the way; these two Democrats voted no:

    1)Jesse Jackson, Jr. (huge Obama supporter)
    2) Sheila Jackson Lee (huge Clinton supporter)

  63. From Catarina’s link:

    “I’m a Teddy Roosevelt Republican. I’ve got to get in the arena when America needs it,” McCain said. “And if that judgment wants to be made that I, whether I helped or hurt, I’ll be glad to accept the judgment of history.”

  64. I forgot to include the best line of the debate, uttered (sic) by Rep. Paul Broun, who described the bailout package as: “a huge cow patty with a marshmallow in the middle of it.”

  65. WigWag,

    I think that the situation right now is simply too dynamic to know who ultimately will suffer politically for this failure. While Obama certainly looked to be winning the political game up to this point, the fact that he can’t seriously claim to have “solved” the problem using his previous approach given the failure of the bill to pass could certainly undermine any sense that he’s provided real leadership. McCain’s own leadership of course is also unclear here, of course, not least because nothing has been resolved.

    But Obama really needs to look as if he’s done more than McCain if he’s going to retain the perception that he would be a better leader for the economy — insofar as McCain can bring it to a confused draw, Obama is likely to lose a good deal of his current lead, which is based on the perception that, in fact, he would be a better leader with respect to exactly this kind of economic crisis.

    And the real danger for both candidates is that further developments will reflect quite negatively on their own approaches to the problem.

  66. From Regency’s link:

    “From the minute John McCain suspended his campaign and arrived in Washington to address this crisis, he was attacked by the Democratic leadership: Senators Obama and Reid, Speaker Pelosi and others. Their partisan attacks were an effort to gain political advantage during a national economic crisis. By doing so, they put at risk the homes, livelihoods and savings of millions of American families.

    “Barack Obama failed to lead, phoned it in, attacked John McCain, and refused to even say if he supported the final bill.

    “Just before the vote, when the outcome was still in doubt, Speaker Pelosi gave a strongly worded partisan speech and poisoned the outcome.

  67. Here is the text of the statement from McCain campaign:

    “From the minute John McCain suspended his campaign and arrived in Washington to address this crisis, he was attacked by the Democratic leadership: Senators Obama and Reid, Speaker Pelosi and others. Their partisan attacks were an effort to gain political advantage during a national economic crisis. By doing so, they put at risk the homes, livelihoods and savings of millions of American families.

    “Barack Obama failed to lead, phoned it in, attacked John McCain, and refused to even say if he supported the final bill.

    “Just before the vote, when the outcome was still in doubt, Speaker Pelosi gave a strongly worded partisan speech and poisoned the outcome.

    “This bill failed because Barack Obama and the Democrats put politics ahead of country.” —McCain-Palin senior policy adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin

    Before McCain Came To Washington, Senate Democrats Called On McCain For Leadership In Economic Crisis
    See Also
    A bailout by any other name…
    Both candidates pledge to vote on plan
    Palin: Biden looks ‘doggone confident’

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV): “We Need The Republican Nominee For President To Let Us Know Where He Stands And What We Should Do.” Reid: “We need, now, the Republicans to start producing some votes for us. We need the Republican nominee for president to let us know where he stands and what we should do.” (Sen. Harry Reid, Press Conference, Washington, D.C., 9/23/08)

    Good statement from the McCain campaign. Spot on.

    Now, McCain needs to seize this moment and show leadership once again and get a New Bill together to stop the bleeding. I think he’ll do it. I hope Hillary will be working with him to do it aslo.


    Congress just announced “There will be no reconsideration on thie Bill. A new Bill will be required.”

  68. catarina, you want a brownie? I’ll save you a slice but I’ll have to hide it from the kids. LOL.

  69. ha-Pelosi “poisoned” the outcome!

    Votermom has brownies

  70. Stunning, really, that Pelosi lost 95 of her own Democrats in the vote.

    Did she not know to COUNT THOSE VOTES before bringing it to the floor at all?

    Did she not ask Obama to call/contact the Democrats who were “iffy?”

    All she needed was 12 more votes.

    Was she too arrogant or too stupid to know that going in?

    Does she need to be replaced if she had no idea?

    Frikkin incredible.

  71. So, they are saying that they didn’t like being on second position as owners of the mortgage….
    Well, hello, maybe if they carry most of the loan they can move up to first position. Gees…

    I also think we need to know about the marshmallow in the middle and who was going to benefit from that. Why do they always attach crazy things to bills that have nothing to do with housing/banking.

  72. Just over at Marketwatch looking at the Dow and Comments.

    Interesting story about how McCain and Pelosi will be the losers. McCain, because he couldn’t rally Republican support and thus shows lack of leadership, and Pelosi because 40% of dems didn’t back her up. Ummmm, I didn’t know Pelosi was the Dem nominee?

    Not a word in the article about Obama and questioning his leadership abilities.

    Et tu, Marketwatch.

  73. IRON MAN: I totally agree with you that Hillary’s help is sought. She is the only one who can navigate this for the American people. McCain should really reach out to her.

  74. At bare minimum, the failure of the bailout to pass makes McCain’s “wacky” idea of focusing hard on the problem seem like a far more sensible approach than before.

    I have a feeling that a lot of voters will find that approach to have been proven out against the conventional wisdom, given the failure in the vote — and especially so since nearly a hundred Democrats defected, which means it was hardly purely partisan in its motivations.

    Obviously, unlike the claims of Congressional Democrats last Thursday, it was absurd to act as if the whole deal was effectively already done by the time McCain arrived on the scene.

  75. McCain had his people on board, then, Nasty Nancy opened her mouth and soured everbody on the thing. She even lost Democrats. why does she still have a job?

  76. Maybe the plan was for the bill not to pass and blame Republicans. Maybe they are counting on the media spinning it for them.

  77. ” still am hoping that McCain will get with Hillary and announce a McCain-Clinton or Clinton-McCain Economic Recovery Bill.”

    This would be a dream come true, but Hillary would never do it.

  78. The Republicans are clearly not to blame here, Mawm, but I agree with you–the Media will spin it.

  79. frankly0, you make some really good points. How all of this works out politically or substantively is hard to predict.

    But it is clear that McCain has went from a position where he was significantly ahead to a position where he is somewhat behind, all as a result of this crisis. But for the crisis, McCain would probably be on his way to a 5-7 point win. Since all this started bad things have been happening for him.

    To make matters worse, the medias relentless attack on Palin and her poor showing with Katie Couric is beginning to resonate, I just don’t know if McCain can tolerate a crashing economy, a crashing stock market and a VP declining in popularity.

    Just like Republicans almost always benefit by foreign policy crises. Democrats usually benefit from economic crises.

    My personal opinion is that the House Republicans are not doing John McCain any favor, regardless of how unpopular the underlying bill mght be.

  80. Then Hillary needs to hand somebody else her plan and let them run with it. Bo Bo won’t do it because it has too many words he can’t understand in it, but there’s got to be somebody

  81. I for one am unconvinced that a 700 billion taxpayer bailout is the only solution or we’re DOOMED. Whatya wanna bet that if the people call their bluff, those congresscritters and Wall Street fuckers will “suddenly” find another way to get the money flowing – maybe not enough for profits, but enough to prevent total meltdown?

    Cavuto had some good points today. The market has not even dropped anywhere NEAR what it did during the S&L crisis. Not even close. The market dropped 25% during the worst of that, and it’s barely down 2% now. But they talk like it is armageddon. Yeah, it may be bad, and some sort of deal needs to happen, but the people are RIGHTLY suspicious of the sudden OMG OMG OMG RUSH HURRY HURRY HURRY and FEAR card from their government.

    The people do not TRUST that they are being told the truth, or that they are not being steamrolled over. And with good damn reason. My Democratic Rep voted nay.

  82. Pelosi has 94 DEMS and she can’t talk to 12 of them?

    HELLO, LEADErSHIP is missing…

  83. Where is the Bi-partisan King “O” mighty who was only a phone call away? I guess his royal steed runaway.

  84. AAO: He’s out of his service area.

  85. Mawm, on September 29th, 2008 at 3:55 pm Said:
    Maybe the plan was for the bill not to pass and blame Republicans. Maybe they are counting on the media spinning it for them.

    I wonder exactly the same thing!

  86. Maybe they planned it this way to keep BO up in the polls.

  87. WwCB,

    I checked and accounts are down, I don’t know about another adjustment yet, but I know raw numbers… -,-, – .

  88. I think it is suspicious that the vote failed with such a narrow margin and so many (40%) of house Dems voted against it. I smell a rat. We were being told before that Pelosi had the Dems but wanted Reps for a bipartisan vote. If she had the votes, hwat happened? It just seems wierd that there were just enough Dem defections to kill the bill. Maybe the Dems believe that the longer this crisis persists, the better it is for Obama.

  89. I don’t mean to be disrespectful, truly, truly I don’t. But I don’t understand observing a holiday when all this is going down. I’m a hard core Catholic (don’t bother) and I have missed two Christmases because of end of the year deals (I’m a real estate attorney). And that was for a stupid Target anchor and a stupid Wal-Mart anchor to close by end of year. This is a tad more important that a Wal-Mart and a Target. Can someone please explain it to me how it is ok for Frank to take two days off. Again, no disrespect. I know Carol is Jewish. I just know I’d work my freaking ass off to work it out, come hell or high water.

  90. WMCB, the market is down about five percent for the day, not two percent. The trading losses for the day was one of the largest of all times. It is the worst percentage move to the downside since 2001. Millions of middle class workers have seen their IRA and 401k plunge.

    If consumers react by significantly cutting back spending what will happen to the economy is anyone’s guess.

    But, perhaps you will be right, maybe everything will right itself.

    I hope so,

  91. Hold on.
    This could also still play out in Mac’s favor.
    And one has to wonder if Pelosi just got played by Bush.
    Maybe they really are paving the way for McCain to save the day now.
    Seems Obama isn’t even remotely interested

  92. The market will recover.

  93. I smell political intrigue. That means that there’s room for one of the candidates to save this. It would be higher octane if it was a Senate vote though. I think Mac can save this.

  94. billy, on September 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pm Said:

    Indictment coming! Well Mr. Obama should have been vetted by the msm. Mr. Rezko is cooperating with the feds and turning on the messiah as well as the Gov. of Illinois. You heard it first from me, a little birdie told me this will happen in the next few weeks! Maybe now people will realize why Bill Clinton has been so smug the last few weeks.

    Billy just posted this down stairs…intrigue! Anyone know about this?

  95. SOD, I don’t know what is going on. I’m really just thinking out loud. It just seems too coincidental that the vote was that close, and so many Dems voted no. Maybe they are rigging it for Obama to look like the savior.

  96. WigWag, please do not misquote me. I never, in any way, said “everything will right itself”. I said that this was a bad bill, of which the people are RIGHTLY suspicious, and there are likely other solutions that the Congress is going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into considering.

    I am getting really, really tired of your constant talking point that anyone opposed to the bailout is an idiot sticking their fingers in their ears going “la la la la there is no problem…all is fine.” NO ONE is saying that, and I have about had it with you continuing to insinuate that we are.

  97. My boss is Jewish, and he always observes the holidays except when serious issues affect his firm, and employees. This is a firm involved in the industry.

    He is here today and will be here tomorrow.

  98. Woman Voter, what a Deus ex Machina that would be!

  99. Mawm,

    You are right or they are holding back because they got tipped off on some thing? Gee, now you got me thinking too?!?

  100. Kristol: McCain’s Moment; Updated

    No one wants to take ownership of the task of rescuing the economy right now. The Bush-Paulson plan has failed. The administration, House Democrats, and House Republicans (above all) have all proved unable to deliver. But there is someone who might be able to save the economy–John McCain.

    He should come back to D.C. But this time he needs to take charge–either by laying out the outlines of his own plan, or presiding over meetings at which a real plan that can pass is cobbled together. He might also insist on the immediate passage of a couple of provisions (raising or removing FDIC insurance limits, for example) that could mitigate the damage that could be done over the next few days.

    It’s time for McCain to act decisively, and to lead, as he did with the surge. No one else seems up to it.

  101. Micki, here’s the difference Micki, on Christmas Day and Good Friday the stock market is closed. The stock market doesn’t close on the two most holy Jewish holidays. And on the two most important Christian holidays (Christmas Day and Easter Sunday) everything is closed because they are national holidays. That’s not true for Rosh Hashshanh or Yom Kippur.

    Jewish people are entitled to our holdiays so. So are people who practice any other religion.

    The saying God before Mammon applies to alot of religions.

  102. One interesting thing I find about the McCain campaign’s release on the bailout vote failure is that the bring up themselves the fact that McCain suspended his campaign.

    If they thought that was continuing to seem like a joke to voters, it’s pretty unimaginable that they would do so. I think that they are clearly believing that it will start to work in their favor, given how the issue has played out, and how it is so clearly unresolved as yet.

  103. Mawn,

    Based on punditopia that sounds about right. It’s time for us tro tell folks to turn off the TVs and stop listening to the clowns. It’s time to push Congress to quit wasting it’s time blathering at us on TV and work in Congress. I’d pay money to join a PAC that was willing to put that message in black and white.

  104. The Dems ARE playing with fire on this one. If all the maneuvering to gain favor for Obama and sandbag McCain gets more exposure (oh, that it does), woe betide Barry’s ‘narrative’. And yes, both sides are in the sandbox (per usual) but it would seem that the Dems come out looking more venal re attempts to craft a solution. Are they up for a bipartisan approach – or not? I don’t trust either faction. I trust Hillary, but we all know that story.

  105. Regency,

    I hear you and think McCain is going to sezie the moment. He needs to and I think he will.

    FOX and CNN reporting that McCain will be speaking shortly.

    I think McCain is going to get this thing back on track and the resulting Bill will be much better for America.

  106. WMCB, I didn’t misquote you, I merely pointed out that your observation that the market is down by 2 percent is not correct.

    And WMCB, I am getting a little sick of your condescending attitutude.

    Why don’t we make a deal? You ignore me and I will ignore you.

  107. Its obvious no one really knows what is going on with the economy. A dismal science it is. Maybe we should bail out. Maybe we shouldn’t. Can anyone here really say definitely that they are sure one way or the other?

  108. DOW is down 770 points.

    Don’t worry, Obama is going to send a text message.

  109. Mawm,

    Yup, you don’t sell the stock/mutual funds they loose 1/2 the value. You turn it to cash…its not worth as much? Or you show up at the bank and they ran out.

    Does anyone remember the trial runs for Y2K and the banking scenarios? Yup, they would run out of money in about 2 days. No kidding…they isn’t enough printed to cover the actual ‘FUNDS OUT IN CIRCULATION’. No kidding!

  110. IronMan, on September 29th, 2008 at 4:14 pm Said:


    Iiiii have a bracelet tooooooooo!

  111. Ironman,



  112. Mawm: I am with you, I don’t know. It seems a bailout that is just for Wall Street is wrong. Wall Street effed up and maybe the homeowners did as weel by buying into this mess. I just believe there has to be something in it for everyone. THe one I completely disagree with, is sending money to a company like ACORN.

  113. OOps that was: There isn’t enough money in circulation.

    Sorry… too excited today.

  114. Obama campaign statement per Major Garret:

    “Things will settle down in the sweet bye-and-bye.”


  115. Mr. Uniter can’t unite 12 votes within his own party. LEADERSHIP?

  116. “the sweet bye-and-bye”???

    McCain did not really say that?

  117. Ironman,

    What does that mean? HELP…we need an OBAMAnism translator ASAP!

  118. WigWag: Point taken. I did not say you were not entitled to celebrate Jewish holidays. I just think extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary sacrifices.

  119. Mawm,

    I have to go write a paper…keep everyone up to speed…I will check in, in about 9 hours and see what went on. Big hug to ya…

  120. oh, sighofrelief
    thought johnny mac said “bye and bye”-almost had a stroke

    anyway, isn’t that a hymn?

    bye and bye, oohhhh when the morning comes you know all the saints of god are gathering home…

    Obama is getting ready for the big faith tour. He must be studying with Leah Doutry today.

  121. From TL via Corrente – Kucinich on Obama and the absence of foreclosure remedies in today’s bill:

    “AMY GOODMAN: Congressman Kucinich, can you explain how it is that the Democrats are in charge, yet the Democrats back down on their demand to give bankruptcy judges authority to alter the terms of mortgages for homeowners facing foreclosure, that Democrats also failed in their attempt to steer a portion of any government profits from the package to affordable housing programs?

    REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Well, I mean, those are two of the most glaring deficiencies in this bill. And I would maintain there was never any intention to—you know, well, many members of Congress had the intention of helping people who were in foreclosure. You know, this—Wall Street doesn’t want to do that. Wall Street wants to grab whatever change they can and equity that’s left in these properties. So—

    AMY GOODMAN: Right, but the Democrats are in charge of this.

    REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Right. You know, I’ll tell you something that we were told in our caucus. We were told that our presidential candidate, when the negotiations started at the White House, said that he didn’t want this in this bill. Now, that’s what we were told.

    AMY GOODMAN: You were told that Barack Obama did not want this in the bill?

    REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: That he didn’t want the bankruptcy provisions in the bill. Now, you know, that’s what we were told. And I don’t understand why he would say that, if he did say that. And I think that there is a—the fact that we didn’t put bankruptcy provisions in, that actually we removed any hope for judges to do any loan modifications or any forbearance. There’s no moratorium on mortgage foreclosures in here. So, who’s getting—who’s really getting helped by this bill? This is a bailout, pure and simple, of Wall Street interests who have been involved in speculation. ”

    Sorry, but Obama sux on this one, big time.

  122. catarina,

    Major Garret said that was from the Obama camapign.

    Again, from Obama campaign:

    “Things will settle down in the sweet bye-and-bye.”

    What is Obama smoking?

  123. I think Hillary Clinton had the most systemic proposals, but I have also been impressed with Cynthia McKinney’s 10 point plan. Why is it the women keep coming up with ingenious proposals and the guys act like they aren’t there. I am just going to guess: Misogyny?

    We need to have a revolution.

  124. Kim, I am with you. WHen Gary and I heard Graham talk about %20 of profits going to Acorn, we about jumped out of our seats, clutching our tin foil hats.

    One thing, though, I don’t care if some people on wall street make out when morally they shouldn’t. The only thing I care about is whether the intervention would really save the economy from going into a Depression or not. If we go into a depression then the $5000 or so we would have had to pay for a bail-out will look like chump change. If I have to give $5000 to a wall street mugger, in order not to get shot in the economic head, I will do it. Afterwards, when the thief is gone, I will call the police and look for justice. At this point, however, I’m not sure if the mugger isn’t going to take my money and shoot me anyways.

  125. Gracias Woman Voter!

  126. The sweet by and by:

    “Will the circle be unbroken by and by, Lord, by and by? There’s a better world a-waitin’ in the sky, Lord, in the sky.”

  127. Well, we could have Hillary Clinton taking charge of this on the Democratic side, as the nominee and certain next President. But of course Pelosi and Dean and Clyburn all had their own Obama-favorable agendas, so here we all are. The deliberate and calculated fixing of the nomination to go to Obama, was their utter “screw all of you” to the American citizenry. So I do not want to hear about, or do I care about, anything they have to say about this, or anything.

    It well may be that we need some kind of bailout plan to save the economy, but I wish it were not true. I am appalled at the help we are giving money to avaricious financial institutions to shield them from the consequences of their own cupidity and foolishness. But I do not agree with Lady Boomer that we should help the homeowners, since the vast majority of them, particularly in my state of California, were similarly greedy, entitled people who thought that home values would continue to appreciate, so that they would get rich. They blew up the housing market with paper money, so that millions of people were priced out,. To let them continue to sit in those homes with forbearances, or even reduction of principal, would be obscene.. The disconnect between the people who “work hard and play by the rules,” in Bill Clintons immortal phrase, and the bunch of self-indulgent buyers and sellers who directly caused this disaster, could not be more immense.

  128. Ironman
    It’s the brother love traveling salvation show-see my comment above.
    While congress mocks it’s citizens Obama is preparing for the preacher tour.
    Hope the Repubs are going to use this opp.

  129. We need some liquidity in the market. My Dad said we just voted the 1930’s. One of the bozo’s had better get back to DC and get something passed ASAP!

  130. This was Krugman’s complete blog entry:

    OK, we are a banana republic
    House votes no. Rex Nutting has the best line: House to Wall Street: Drop Dead. He also correctly places the blame and/or credit with House Republicans. For reasons I’ve already explained, I don’t think the Dem leadership was in a position to craft a bill that would have achieved overwhelming Democratic support, so make or break was whether enough GOPers would sign on. They didn’t.

    I assume Pelosi calls a new vote; but if it fails, then what? I guess write a bill that is actually, you know, a good plan, and try to pass it — though politically it might not make sense to try until after the election.

    For now, I’m just going to quote myself:

    So what we now have is non-functional government in the face of a major crisis, because Congress includes a quorum of crazies and nobody trusts the White House an inch.
    As a friend said last night, we’ve become a banana republic with nukes.

  131. Lady Boomer, you are creeping me out.

  132. a non-functional government is a very accurate assessment.
    Obama is off speaking in tongues in some hotel while congress fights.
    meanwhile our 401k’s go down the toilet.

  133. The other thing I will say and this is strictly personal, if we are broke, maybe we will have to end this fucking war and my son will come home.

  134. Nancy Pelosi should be tarred and feathered and ridden out of DC on a rail …

    this is a major vote of no confidence in her…

    on a brighter note, i get to die at the lecturn … that should give my students pause

  135. Wow Kat5,

    Nice 5.

    Barry has some explainin’ to do.

  136. “In the Sweet By and Bye” is a hymn, these are the lyrics. What Obi meant, I cannot say.

    There’s a land that is fairer than day,
    And by faith we can see it afar;
    For the Father waits over the way
    To prepare us a dwelling place there.


    In the sweet by and by,
    We shall meet on that beautiful shore;
    In the sweet by and by,
    We shall meet on that beautiful shore.

    We shall sing on that beautiful shore
    The melodious songs of the blessed;
    And our spirits shall sorrow no more,
    Not a sigh for the blessing of rest.


    To our bountiful Father above,
    We will offer our tribute of praise
    For the glorious gift of His love
    And the blessings that hallow our days.

  137. {{{{dakini}}}}

  138. IronMan, you look like a one legged crab with bunny ears.

  139. The next President after this one will absolutely be a populist, faux or real. It is likely to be a right-wing populist like Huckabee, if Obama is elected. The public reaction to this bailout shows the immense discontent with corporate America and its bought and paid for elected officials. What a tragedy for all of us that the Democrats, the supposed Party of the working class, ignored the clear primary results in every major state which showed the massive support for Hillary Clinton, whom average people trust, particularly on the economy. Anyone have any confidence In BaracK Obama to understand the complex economic problems we face?

  140. Sounds like Obama is not a democrat after all.

  141. Mawm: What, you don’t remember the song? Obama does. He goes to church. Or wait, maybe he doesn’t. Katiebird taught me how to do the smile on my keyboard. How do you do the devil?

    TheRealKim: Wow. I hope so, too, and tomorrow in temple will pray for your son to come home and the war to end.

  142. Kim, oh crap! Obama means to “kill” the economy. The sweet by and by is DEATH!

    I think I’ll stay on this shore for the time being.

  143. I didn’t realize your son was overseas in the military, Kim. Really sorry to hear that. So many lives tangled up in so many unhappy ways, thanks to our wonderful gub’mint…. Another chorus of “Tomorrow”, anyone?

  144. colon evil colon no spaces

  145. REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Right. You know, I’ll tell you something that we were told in our caucus. We were told that our presidential candidate, when the negotiations started at the White House, said that he didn’t want this in this bill. Now, that’s what we were told.

    AMY GOODMAN: You were told that Barack Obama did not want this in the bill?


    Dang, I hope this at least means Amy Goodman will come to her senses and I can start listening to her again.

    I’m not holding my breath. My expectations are in a downward spiral.

  146. Lady Boomer, you are going to need to pray up a storm at temple tomorrow. We really need it about now.

  147. When Barney prays in temple over these next two days, maybe he’ll get some new ideas about how to work with the opposition and listen to the people of this country instead of pontificating. Oh, wrong religion.

    But really the High Holidays are all about looking into one’s own soul and seeing one’s mistakes in how we blame others instead of ourselves. Perhaps, he’ll be humbled in taking a break and thinking about how he can do things a bit better.

  148. Does Obama have Pac-Man on his cell phone? That is what I want to nkow right now.

  149. Mawm: Yes, the Sweet Bye and Bye is a funeral song.

  150. hi catarina …

  151. One thing Riverdaughter is always telling us is that we have to support down ticket Democrats. The failure of the bail out plan to pass is great news for down ticket Democrats.

    The failure of the plan will help Linda Stender in New Jersey and it will definitely help Alice Kryzan in New York.

    It will especially help Democratic senate nominees. Kay Hagan who is on the Confluence Act Blue Page will get a real leg up on Liddy Dole. This will probably also help Franken in Minnesota and Lunsford in Kentucky.

    Economic crises are worse for Republicans because the public invariably trust Democrats more than Republicans on the economy.

    My guess is that the down ticket Democrats are secretly smiling. The failure of the bill to pass could actually lead to a filabuster proof Senate.

    It will be interesting to get Riverdaughters take on this.

  152. From the Chicago Tribune about Rezko, Obama and Gov. of Ill.: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-rezko-flip28sep28,0,5691387.story
    I wish something would come of this before it’s too late to make Hillary the candidate, although maybe it already it is.

  153. Hank Paulson speaking now.

  154. Yes, Kat5, he was stop-lossed two months ago and shipped out to Iraq last week. So much for Bush’s we aren’t replacing any soldiers. But, as I have said before, if I have two choices, one is putting his welfare and well-being in Barry’s hands or the other being in McCain’s; as crazy as it sounds, I pick McCain.

  155. If the country falls into a Depression because the congress fails to pass a bail-out. Dems may win the senate, but lose their lives to the angry mob.

  156. Here’s the McClatchy story that says that many economists say the bailout isn’t needed: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/53107.html
    and…I just got an email saying that Hill is coming to NJ on Oct 13th to support Linda Stender for Congress.

  157. Real Kim- I don’t want to burst your bubble, but we, unfortunately, always have enough money to fight the wars. That ‘bye and bye’ stuff sounds like a secret message to Obama’s faithful that God will take care of everything. I guess that is why he can keep campaigning, he is leaving it all in God’s hands. God help us.

  158. testing: 👿

    Mawm, the devil and temple don’t go together, but I’ll do my best to make our case to God, who’s mad at us for spending so much on war while neglecting the real needs of people.

  159. dak, you won’t die at the lecturn
    but that was damned funny

  160. They are blaming McCain and Palin. He messed up the vote. She is too stupid.

    No one can be as stupid as Pelosi, Dodd, Franks, Reid …………………….. and they are criminals also.

    Line them up and read them their rights.


  161. Look, I’d love to be against a capital injection by the feds, but this is going to hurt really bad. There is no liquidity. Banks can’t loan to other banks. If you want a school loan, not gonna happen. A house mortgage, uhuh. Want to buy a car? Nope, no car loans. My God, how could Pelosi put up something this controversial w/out having counted the votes. Makes no sense. One of these complete idiots had better head back to DC and get the Congress to do something.

  162. Honora: A mother can always have hope.

  163. catarina: if my 403-B keeps going down … i’d say i’m headed that direction 🙂

  164. Kathy — I’m with you — still one of the believers that enough about Obama comes out now that he has to step down & Hillary steps in. Otherwise, I honestly believe that if he is elected he will be impeached & we will have Pres. Biden (almost worse then a Pres. Obama, imo).

  165. masslib, a few days ago I was saying that this could easily lead to a massive bank run. Lots of folks thought I was crazy. Banks rely on short term credit from the Fed but also from other banks to pay depositors who want to take their money out or write checks or make debit card transactions. A serious bank run will cause FDIC to collapse.

    The doomsday scenerio may not be the most likely scenerio but it is a plausible scenerio.

  166. masslib — how could Pelosi have put up this bill without counting the votes — BWAH! Heck, this isn’t the dumbest thing she’s done, imo.

  167. The Real Kim – You have every reason to hope. A mother’s hope is very powerful.



  168. WigWag — you may be right, but I have more “faith” in the ratf%cking capabilities of the Republicans (hey, just because I’m voting for their candidate this year doesn’t mean I like ’em). I believe a bailout bill will be passed soon with the Republicans getting all the credit.

  169. Hank Paulson saying we need a Bill and we need it now.

    McCain and Hillary to the rescue? I sure hope so.

    It would be fitting that Hillary and the Maverick team up to put the smack down on Pelosi, Reid, Franck, and Obama.

    I’d be as happy as a one legged crab with bunny ears and 10 claws 🙂

  170. Kathy I would even be OK with Biden moving up & choosing Hillary to run with him. ANYTHING to get rid of OBAMA!
    Country before Party!

  171. McCain and Hillary teaming up to do the HOLC would be my dream come true.

  172. If there is nothing in there assisting homeowners and since most of them have ARM’s, won’t this just continue? As their rates climb, they will be less apt to pay and more homes will be foreclosed on, especially if we are in a depression/recession. How many times will we have to bail out Wall Street?

  173. WMCB – That’s actually a real possibility.

  174. dakini

    if it’s any consolation I’ll be chained to the calculator for years to come.
    so much for all that leisure time i banked on-ill be doing tax returns till they put me in the box.

    how could this be happening?
    Quick, no-nonsense legislation should have been a done deal by now.
    and the fighting! it’s all too surreal.

  175. typ/ny — I would not be happy with Biden moving up — first, he got roundly defeated early on in the primaries. second, his record with the banks, credit card companies & the bankruptcy reform laws makes him anathema to me.
    I want a Hillary/Clark ticket — same thing I wanted since January.

  176. WOW Kat, indeed.

    That Goodman/Kucinich interview absolutely condemns Obama for throwing “Main Street” under the bus.

    I DO hope more and more Americans finally understand that Obama’s allies are the BIG boys, and not the little guys.

    Thanks for your post.

  177. Yes, Kim — you are exactly right — that is why the cram down provisions should have been in there (and which were the first thing the Dems folded on). Sure, we need to help Wall Street, but it is only fair to also help the little guy — keeping homes from going into foreclosure in the first place will help the economy as much as helping Wall Street.

  178. And to add, Kat (I posted too soon, sorry):

    It sure explains why 94 Democrats may have voted no because they felt their party leadership had deserted their concerns about those “little people.”

    Kuchinich sure sounded disgusted with Obama’s choice, describing the bill as helping Wall Street and not Main Street.

    It appears that Obama abandoned Main Street, eh?

  179. Dow drops 7 percent today. S&P drops almost 8 percent today. Many of my neighbors in Florida who live on fixed incomes watched their IRAs crash. Some of these people already can’t afford to pay for their medicine.

    For many of them, it just got alot worse.

  180. The Goodman/Kucinich interview should be rammed down everyone’s throats. Anyone think that the MSM will pick up on it.

  181. Why can’t we freeze the ARMs if we bail wall street out?

  182. kat5 — the Dems in the caucus were told Obama didn’t want the bk provisions in the bill and I heard it with my own ears when he gave his “they’ll call me if they need me” speech. Glad to have it confirmed.

  183. “Abandoned” implies he was “with” Main Street at some point.

  184. Hey, I’m no economist, but isn’t an economy based on credit doomed to fail?

  185. if that bill had passed the backlash would have been fierce.

    it was a crappy piece of legislation and people would have found out the juicy details, like:
    -homeowners in trouble get NOTHING, and
    -up to 500k salary per exec can still be taken as a tax deduction by the failed institutions
    – all golden parachute contracts already in effect would have remained intact!

  186. Wouldn’t this be the perfect time for BO to jump in and show off those awesome bipartisan-bringing us all together skills that we heard so much about?

    Has he EVER led? anything?


  187. failed the test—someone clue me in please.

  188. Mawm — we can’t freeze the ARMs because Wall Street wants the houses — they know they can sit on them until the market gets better. Vultures. They caused the mess with their irresponsible lending & they want to pick the bones off of the carcasses.

  189. Clintons and McCain have a clear path to lead us out of this utterly corrupt joke of deal. Pelosi’s going to go down in flames over this. How dare she rattle off how much money was left in the budget when Bill left office! There is just more to this than we know right now. I can smell it. Why so much attempted deflection? How much collusion has been going on between her and Frank et al? Where’s the money? Somethings just not sitting right with me about this other than just the typical partisan BS.

  190. Am I blocked from posting?

  191. kc try
    colon twisted colon

    thats haka-woman

  192. 😈

  193. from a poster on Hillis44:

    texan4hillary Says:
    September 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
    spoke to a close jackson lee associate. there are three things wanted.
    pressure congress to put them in the bill

    Please demand inclusion of these (3) measures to stabilize AND stimulate the economy in the current economic crisis:

    90-moratorium on home foreclosures

    Provision for bankruptcy negotiation for foreclosure victims

    Extension of benefits to jobless (to avoid total stagnation of the economy and continue circulation of money to businesses, mortgage holders and creditors)

  194. Angie:

    They want the houses or the jacked-up mortgage payments

  195. Irlandese, word is that Paulson and the Bush admin has been very very cozy with Pelosi and company this whole time. Talking to them, memos back and forth – MUCH more so than the Repubs.

    It STINKS to high heaven. The ones in bed with the financiers want this particular bill badly – whatever side of the aisle they are on.

  196. catarina–thanks

  197. When you recall that Donna is BFFs with Karl Rove, the whole thing stinks even more.

  198. This is a disaster and the Republicans will pay dearly for it in November. Their feelings were hurt?? When my husband loses his job and we lose our house, guess how hurt our feelings are going to be then?
    Why do so many Conflucians rankle at the partisanship of Pelosi and Frank but have no problem with the naked partisanship of Eric Cantor, Adam Putnam, et al?
    Today the Congress failed our nation and the Republican Party bears most of the blame.

  199. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com which is generally recognized as non partisan, just added another Democratic senatorial candidate to the list of likely winners. (Merckley). Republican seats that the Democrats are now likely to capture are: Virginia, New Mexico, Colorado, New Hampshire, Alaska and now Oregon. The failure to pass the bill now puts 4 other Republican seats at risk: Dole, Coleman, McConnell and Wicker.

  200. According to Kool-aid Jerri, Obama is leading in NC

    Is that true?


  201. How do Reps bear the blame for this bill’s failure? 94 Dems voted against it. %40 of the Dem presence in the House.

  202. Nancy sabotaged the bill with her speech – many GOP-ers who were reluctantly brought aboard – were turned off by her speech per Politico

  203. Sweetie?

    Because we want Nancy Botox to lose along with her puppet

  204. Wow, expectations could not be any higher now.

    This is the moment of all moments for McCain’s campaign.

    With the financial crisis at hand, McCain will be speaking from Iowa shortly.

    God Speed John McCain

    McCain on now!

  205. Irlandese, on September 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pm Said:
    Clintons and McCain have a clear path to lead us out of this utterly corrupt joke of deal. Pelosi’s going to go down in flames over this. How dare she rattle off how much money was left in the budget when Bill left office

    I don’t understand your anger at Pelosi for talking up Clinton’s stewardship of the economy. Are Democrats not allowed to point out their successes?
    It’s history, it’s the simple truth.
    Aren’t we the fact based community?

  206. WMCB–where there’s smoke…..as for why we’re rankled about partisanship, we’re more rankled by HYPOCRISY, IMO. For those in positions of leadership in the Democratic Party, we expected more than lip-service about how the other side botched it. We expect that from Republicans. But not from Dems. We’ve expected far more than we’ve been given, hence the PartyUnityMyAss attitude we’ve got going on here.

  207. you can run somewhat on credit … however you have to have something to back it up with an improving economy … or you’re going to get into trouble, and you’ve got to recapitalize things … not give your profits away as big FAT dividend checks and CEO bonuses

  208. Today Congress voted for a Depression. Exactly. This is freaking disaster!

  209. I think Obama and the Dems may have screwed themselves. They went out of their way to say that McCain was not helpful; he had nothing to do with any progress. With the failure of the vote, it seems to me that McCain’s concern that the bill was not going to make it and needed major work proves true. How do you now blame McCain after saying that he was irrelevant? I think the Dem leadership went out of its way to be visible in front of the cameras, going to and from meetings and Obama out campaigning/bloviating about how great he is on economics and how bad McCain; how he is doing all kinds of stuff on the phones. Now it has blown up. I think the McCain campaign has to be careful of blaming Dem. partisan political speech since that takes things away from the Repubs. They should just say that the Dem compromises failed to heal the serious shortcomings of the bill; they should have had more Repub. ideas in it on oversight etc.

  210. SweetSue, the problem with what happened with the stock market today is that billionaires lost millions but they still have billions. Millionaires lost hundreds of thousands but they still have millions.

    Middle class Americans who had maybe $80 or $100 thousand in their IRA or 401k lost tens of thousands. They can’t afford it. They rely on the IRA or 401k to supplement their social security.

    Many of them will have to “unretire” Some are headed down to the supermarket to see if they can get jobs as cashiers or baggers. Some of these people are in their 70s or even 80s.

    The Democrats and Republicans are both to blame. But at it’s root, the problem is caused by Republicans. They are the ones who deified Ronald Reagan and his terrible derregulatory tendencies.

    By the way, for those who are interested, McCain just said on national television that he wanted this bill to pass.

  211. and i think partisanship is going to be the death of this country … which is what Thomas Jefferson and John Adams thought, so I guess I’m in good company …

    how can nancy politicize this knowing her vote was so weak?

  212. Please don’t call me Sweetie. I’ve been around these parts since January and I’m no Obot.
    I just didn’t realize that PUMA meant Republican cheerleader.
    Do you really want a McCain Presidency and a Republican Senate/Congress?

  213. SweetSue, Pelosi utterly failed today! How dare her bring up a bill this controversial without making sure she had the votes? That effing moron just presided over a bill for a freaking depression!

  214. I’m angry at Pelosi cherry-picking when and where she’s going to take up for the Clintons–only when it serves her to do so. Loyalty is not a commodity to be bought and sold! Not in my book it isn’t. Her entire actions this election season have shown her to be an opportunist of the worst sort.

  215. I don’t think the Congress voted for Depression. They voted for a better bill. They do not want this economic crisis bill to come back to haunt them the way their vote on Iraq has so they stood up and said, no. It is not a good bill.

  216. SweetSue, if you are trying to get people to go along with your plan, calling them out and scolding them right before the vote is not the smartest way to proceed especially when what you are saying is only half true. Dems are just as much to blame for this mess as Reps are. They never wnated any regulation on their private fiefdom of Fanni and Freddie.

  217. Jangles, the banks are not loaning to each other. Don’t you know what that means??? They voted for the next great depression.

  218. Did BO actually say that the Fundamentals of the Economy were strong today?

  219. myiq2xu, on September 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pm Said:


    They want the houses or the jacked-up mortgage payments

    myiq2xu — Wall Street would rather that the houses go into foreclosure because the banks don’t actually own the mortgages — security cabals do (a lot of which are in China, believe it or not). If the mortgage is renegotiated then the banks could be sued by the security cabals. However, if the house goes into foreclosure, then their is no problem of suit by the cabals & credit default provisions in the agreements might kick in (credit default provisions are basically insurance and re-insurance to cover losses from foreclosures if there are enough losses from foreclosures).

  220. Iffen you wanna know how yer Congresscritter voted:


    Kucinich, Jackson-Lee and Paul all voted “NO”

    Strange bedfellows

  221. All of you have points, and I thought it was ham fisted of Pelosi, but I don’t believe in a million years that’s why the Republicans who were supposedly on board bailed.
    Pelosi’s speech was a transparent excuse.
    Again, their feelings were hurt??

  222. Was just a short speech from McCain, calling on Congress to get back to work immediately. I agrre, but we’ve got to get a Bill that will pass. Not a boondoggle Bill, but a sensible one.

    Will COngress do their jobs on this?

    Thing is, Congress announced they would not be doing anything on the Bill tonight and tomorrow is holiday.

    Argghhh…McCain needs to contact Hillary and put forth their own plan, together, for the American people.

    Probably a pipe dream, but man oh man, it would be wonderful if they could pull it off.

    Has Hillary made a statement today at all?

  223. Pelosi personally bought off delegates with “donated” money in order to knock Clinton out of the race. If that wasn’t enough to sour me on her, her ridiculous speech BEFORE the vote is sending me into orbit. And she has the audacity to laud Bill for leaving us better off than we are now??? Are you kidding me??? This is where I simply refuse to play this game any longer.

  224. A HOLIDAY??? Oh F*CK. We are screwed!

  225. Mawm, sweetsue isn’t calling anyone out. She’s expressing her opinion and I would like to hear what she has to say. No need to criticize her. She’s been here along time. she dislikes Obama like the rest of us.

    If you don’t like what she has to say, ignore her. Some of us think she’s exactly right.

  226. WigWag, believe me, I’m perfecting my “Welcome to WalMart, lil’ pardner” even as we speak.

  227. SweetSue, on September 29th, 2008 at 5:11 pm Said:

    So you’re saying that the nearly 100 dems who voted no as well are not culpable?

    You’re not so much sweet, as you are sour.

  228. WigWag, I didn’t say she was. I was refering to Pelosi calling out the Reps in the well of the House.

  229. The idea that Republicans didn’t vote for the bailout is laughable. They didn’t like big bad Nancy making fun of them so they decided they would flush the American economy down the drain?

    Maybe that’s why Republicans are in trouble.

  230. I am not better than that!

    That was a bad bill being forced on us by a corrupt cabal

  231. Of course their feelings weren’t hurt. It’s a bad bill that most of the public hates. The Republicans just took the moral high ground. 1/3 of the House Dems did too. What’s Pelosi’s excuse for coming out there without a voting bloc of the willing?

  232. WigWag, there are no heros here. Pelosi completely failed today. She will long be remembered as the Speaker who presided over the bill that lead to the next great depression. How dare her bring this to the floor without knowing she had the votes! Jesus, 95 Dem’s voted against it! The Repubs said they would bring 60-70 votes. They brought 67. She miscounted her own damn Party. This is a colossal screw up and a huge embarrassment.

  233. Pelosi’s running her mouth because she scared. She doesn’t feel she needs to listen to the entire Democratic Party any longer, only those who will continue to line the pockets of her and all the other cronies playing the game at the DNC. I WILL NOT SUPPORT CORRUPTION. Ever try to figure out WHY Nancy would want the Clintons out of the game?? They’re not for screwing over their poorer constituents and taking the money and running. End of story.

  234. Wig wag: You are may be overweighting the importance of the stock market in this. The barometer you should be watching is the barometer on the credit markets. Also, prudent investors should know better than to sell into a huge down market. If you have financial stocks, it is going to be tough. But if you have other solid stocks you are much better off to stand still and study all the economic landscape. I think the market took this pretty well overall. I think the market was more concerned about what was happening in Europe and Asian markets than it was concerned about the bail out bill.

  235. SweetSue, Walmart will be fine. They buy everything they sell from China. Actually, if the bail out fails the dollar could plunge. I don’t mean fall, I mean plunge. If the dollar plunges the Chinese can easily come in and buy up half of our economy,

    I guess we all better to start thinking about learning Chinese.

  236. If you’re a business, and you’re engaged in shady business practices or engaged in business withOUT knowing the foundation of “financial instruments” based on bad mortgage loans, you deserve to fail.

  237. Try not to make it personal, destardi.
    I said the Republicans bear the brunt of the failure and deserve too. There has been a lack of leadership on both sides but this fiasco is reminiscent of when Gingrich and his crew-most of whom are still with us-shut down the Government out of spite.
    At least that helped Bill Clinton to a second term, thank God.
    This time it’s very, very serious.

  238. Well, regency, the public is going to really hate it when they can’t get a car loan, a home mortgage, a line of credit of any kind, a school loan. They are going to really fricken hate it when they see the small businesses in their town close down one after the other.

  239. WigWag-Mawm was talking about Nancy Pelosi

  240. Irlandese, on September 29th, 2008 at 5:29 pm Said:

    I’m with you.

  241. If it was all about partisanship, the Dems had enough votes to pass the bill w/o GOP help – except they didn’t.

  242. It’s not the stock market so much as the liquidity.

  243. Charles: I think there will be a bill. It will not be this bill and it will happen sometime this week. Nancy Pelosi has to settle down and do her job; she blew this big time and she blew it because she was too immersed in her own political agenda and using this crisis to try to further her cause. One good thing—maybe some of those high dollar donors will be focused on saving their portfolios and forget the O for awhile.

  244. I realize that “Reagan” seems to be a rough synonym
    for evil with some Democrats, but the evidence is
    that in this case, Democrats blocked *Republican* attempts to exercise oversight of Fannie Mae. Video here:


    If we’re going to blame Reagan, let’s see some *evidence* that Reagan was guilty for what happened a decade after his death.

    Or, alternatively, perhaps we can arrange for one of Obama’s goons to put me out of my political misery and just shoot me now…

  245. Regency, I respect your opinion, as I respect the opinion of all Confluence commentors, but this bill was much, much better than the original Bernake/Paulson proposal which was outrageous.
    And a lot of truly innocent, “play by the rules” people are going to get hurt and even ruined.

  246. Pelosi apparently was pretty adept at strongarming “votes” at the convention. Funny how she couldn’t make it happen today.

  247. Maybe if we were getting straight information on this whole mess – some people were claiming the bill was a GOP scam, and now the GOP is being blamed for killing it!

  248. masslib, Pelosi is awful. Her leadership skills are non-existant. She is a big part of the problem. But despite the fact that both parties are to blame for all of this. The real cuprit is Reaganomics.

    The Democrats who voted against this are in my opinion as dumb as the Republicans who voted against it.

    The problem is that conservative republicans would rather see the economy go down the drain and would rather risk a depression than risk the possibility that government intervention (which they hate) might actually work.

  249. That’s not what the public is thinking about today, Masslib. They’re thinking about 700 Billion dollars with jack for oversight and accountability. They’re confused about why NO questions are being answered about it and they’re letting their Congresspersons know. Those congresspeople want to be re-elected so they’re listening to those calls. Maybe the public would see it the way you do if someone bothered to explain. Sadly no one not named Clinton can be bothered. And those that are named Clinton have disappeared into thin, unbreathable air.

    Pelosi overplayed her hand. Now she’s playing the blame game.

  250. SweetSue, on September 29th, 2008 at 5:30 pm Said:

    I was making a play on your chosen nickname; I didn’t say anything about ‘you’. It was a play on words, nothing more.

    And I agree with your comment on this.

    But to blame all of what’s occuring, and the bill failure on republicans is wrong…nearly 100 dems voted against it as well.

    Do we know what all is contained within it?

    I for one do not want a bill rushed through without having it examined; but I also don’t want dems to use it for a political tool to make republicans look even worse.

    I will never vote for uhbama…and I’m embracing mccain.

    If no one likes that, take it to uhbama…it’s his problem the moment he started racebaiting 2 fine Democrats..Bill and Hillary.

  251. Wigwag:


    The GOP is no less patriotic nor more corrupt than the Democratic party.

  252. Per Major Garret:

    “Obama is not sure if he is going back to Washington.”

    See folks, that is the problem. In a crisis, Obama does not know what to do. I guess making such a decision is above Obama’s paygrade, huh?

    Obama is a weak leader.


    Major Garret speaking now on FOX from Coloroado with some smack down against Obama now. Saying some are saying Obama did not do enough as the Democratic nominee to rally votes within his own party.

  253. I guess Pelosi shoulda called Obama and asked him to lean on 12 more Dem congresscritters. Too bad. So sad.

  254. What WigWag said. Thanks, WigWag for the clarity and knowledge you have brought to this subject for many days.

  255. My small business depends on everyone else being solvent. I saw a 30% drop in business back 18-20 years ago when the “big 80’s” bottomed out in the well-off community where I worked. I have a daughter going to college in a few years. I’m self-employed and get no bennies or an employer paying my social security. You’d better believe I’m watching all of this very carefully.

  256. have any of the Dems said why they didn’t vote for it ? I noticed my congressman Cold Cash Jefferson voted against it … maybe because they dropped those earmarks… I’m sure he gets kickbacks from ACORN, etc.

  257. Yikes. Seems to me that Obama is proving (to anyone paying attention) that he doesn’t hold up well in a crisis.

  258. Did Obama vote “present”?

  259. John: The House voted, not the Senate.

  260. dakinikat, is your congressman $Bill Jefferson, with the infamous freezer flush with cash?

  261. My Congressman, Dennis Cardoza (a Blue-Dog Democrat) voted for it.

  262. Boehner said today that the Pelosi speech cost him 12 Repub votes in tight races. But those would not have made a difference. Charles do not despair. I think we will have a bill. I hope McCain can organize support for a new bill. I think that he has really been rather careful to say the bill is far more than the credit. We will soon know who is standing and who is falling. But as I watched the news this week-end, the Dem leadership seemed to be very visible—very looking like they were in charge. So now that they control both houses and they failed to deliver, I think they may be forced to focus on getting something done instead of focusing on grandstanding. I hope.

  263. Today, we’ve seen the consequences of electing people who hate and distrust the government to run that government.
    Cronyism, wholesale deregulation, self regulation and Reaganomics (public sector all bad, private sector-all good) don’t work and they certainly don’t work for “the people.”

  264. The GOP has done a lot of things in the last eight years, but it did *not* block oversight of Fannie, as Democrats did, in the video posted upthread, and it did not request an earmark for ACORN to subsidize voter fraud.

  265. What a topsy turvey world. My Democrat in Congress vote NO (and she is in a very safe seat), and my Republican voted YES!!!! I’ve stated on these forums before that I love the woman in CD1, would never vote for the R running – yet my own Congressman voted in favor of this crap.

  266. WigWag is right. No money for the FDIC is the end of the Monopoly Game going on right now. So–Mandarin or Szechuan??

  267. Szechuan. The food’s better.

  268. 95 Democrats voted No. 133 Rebublicans voted No.

    No way is the failure of this bill solely the fault of the Repubs.

  269. Sweetsue:

    Dennis Kucinich voted against the bail-out. So did Sheila Jackson-Lee

    Are you calling them stupid? Or are they conservatives?

    Unpatriotic maybe?

  270. “Of course their feelings weren’t hurt. It’s a bad bill that most of the public hates. The Republicans just took the moral high ground. 1/3 of the House Dems did too.”

    And it’s not like this is over, either.. If Pelosi would stop grandstanding and acting like the public are annoying nuisances who need to be cracked in the head by Donna Brazile for daring to want to have some imput in the process, then they could introduce oversight, accountability, and trasparency into the process. The Democrats have a majority last I checked, and should be able to actually achieve one on a piece of legislation that’s decent and acceptable to the American people.

  271. The Dems don’t want this settled. This is great for their candidate. They are going to drag this out as long as they can. BO’s numbers will go up. It is rumored that Axelrod got this going just to help BO. They purposely made the bill unacceptable so it can go on and on. I say let the market drop. It will be back after the election. This is just politics as usual.

  272. SweetSue, give me a break. This mess is the mess of both parties, but Dems factor in more heavily because of their resistance to regulating Fannie and Freddie. It may well be that the public blames Reps for this debacle, but what about Dodd and his chairmanship of the banking committee? He recieved more money than anyone from Fanni and Freddie, and he got a sweet-heart loan from countrywide. Now Obama has Raines, who got a 90,000,000 golden parachite from Fannie Mae, and who is now a top advisor to the campaign on housing issues.
    Democrats never let anyone tough their little kingdom of sub-prime mortgages.

  273. Regency– thank you.

    The chutzpah award for today goes to Barack Obama, whose campaign, according to Christina Cedeno, has just sent the following e-mail:

    This is a moment of national crisis, and today’s inaction in Congress as well as the angry and hyper-partisan statement released by the McCain campaign are exactly why the American people are disgusted with Washington…

  274. Precisely right, SweetSue. Although people who are under the age of 70 have never experienced this before; this type of financial crisis occurred with great regularity. The reason we haven’t experienced one of this magnitude for over 70 years is because Franklin Roosevelt put a number of mechanisms in place that worked so well that most Americans don’t remember what a bank run or a depression is like.

    The person who destroyed all of this is Ronald Reagan. He spawned a generation of ignorant free market republicans who duped the public into thinking regulation was bad, Now the chickens are coming home to roost.

    The Democrats are to blame also. But only because they bought into the ignorant deregulatory meme.

    We don;t need a new regulatory schene for the 21st century. We need to go back to the regulatory scheme that worked so well, That would be the regulatory scheme that Republicans destroyed.

    It is the type of regulation that the politiicans that Riverdaughter listed on the Confluence Act Blue page support.

  275. yup Mawn … that’s my congressman!

  276. Wigwag, I don’t know a single Republican who favors less government intervention. They want this strictly monitored so they know who to blame (indict) if it happens again.

  277. Dennis Kucinich voted against the bail-out. So did Sheila Jackson-Lee. Are you calling them stupid? Or are they conservatives? Unpatriotic maybe?

    No, they’re not conservative or stupid. They’re wrong. The person who is right is Hillary Clinton friend and ally, Barney Frank.

  278. John, why in the world are you quoting Cedeno. She is the psychotic anti-PUMA kindergarten teacher.

  279. myiq2xu, on September 29th, 2008 at 5:47 pm Said:
    Dennis Kucinich voted against the bail-out. So did Sheila Jackson-Lee
    Are you calling them stupid? Or are they conservatives?
    Unpatriotic maybe

    No, I’m not.
    This bill was originally declared passed according to ayes versus nayes. Then some members demanded a count. Do we know if some Democrats changed their votes when they saw what was happening on the other side of the aisle?

  280. Wigwag, this can go both ways – the Dems were in control the beginning of the 90’s (96?). Why didn’t they change it to something more suitable to you?

    EVERY ONE there is to blame. I don’t care to blame any one party or person, I blame all of them.

  281. Jackson-Lee is a friend and ally of Hillary too

  282. The market hasn’t dropped as much as it did in the 80s during the S&L Crisis … My house loan was at17.67% then, it was an ARM , and my credit was perfect… AND i worked for the S&L that gave me the loan … also, the unemployment rate was at around 13% ..and we had just come through all that inflation with high oil prices … (just a reminder) so it’s not as bad as it was during the Reagan years, on that note

  283. I’m sorry but Barney Frank is a big failure too. All he ever does is blame Republicans. Why haven’t Dems been able to do anything in the last two years?

  284. One thing that the McCain campaign statement said that I find almost hard to believe is that Obama himself was never even clear whether he himself actually supported the ultimate bill.

    Is that true?

    If it is true, could there be a more obvious failure of leadership here? How could he pretend that he was leading the process when he wasn’t even explicitly supporting the product? How could he possibly be said to be leading fellow Democrats to vote for the bailout if he himself was hedging?

  285. I just wish I could find someone, somewhere, that would explain slowly and carefully what the failure of this bill means without finger-pointing, without name-calling and without fear-mongering. And then tell us what options we now have.

    I guess that’s too much to ask. The day of an informed citizenry is not at hand. And it’s not even that the citizenry doesn’t want to be informed. It’s that they can’t find information that doesn’t have some partisan strings attached.

  286. Barney Frank’s had his hand in the cookie jar. He may be a Clinton supporter, but right now he’s talking the talk and taking a walk.

  287. I’ve decided not to worry and just leave it up to our brilliant leaders. After all, if Pelosi & Reid can select the nest POTUS for us, handling this crisis will be a piece of cake for them.
    Mmm, pass me more of that cherry-flavored stuff.

  288. The Democrats lost the House in 94. The Republicans controlled the House from 1994 to 2006.
    The Democrats have been in charge again for less than two years.

  289. NV Swing Voter, don’t Republicans sell themselves as the party of deregulation and free markets. That’s what Ronald Reagan did. That’s what George W. Bush did and it’s what John McCain was doing until last week.

    The sad part, it’s even what Democrats have been doing recently, including Barack Obama. That’s why Democrats share in the blame. Because instead of calling the Republicans out on their deregulation rhetoric, they caved in to it.

    And by the way, the Democrats behavior with Fannie and Freddie was terrible. But that was just a symptom of the problem not the underlying problem.

    The underlying problem is Reaganomics.

  290. Charles,

    as if to second what you said about Washington, here is what Paul Krugman said:

    So what we now have is non-functional government in the face of a major crisis, because Congress includes a quorum of crazies and nobody trusts the White House an inch. As a friend said last night, we’ve become a banana republic with nukes.

    Never has he been so right.

  291. Mawn: Botox Nancy and Spinefree Reid

  292. So now Republicans are responsible for keeping Democrats in line? They can’t vote first because Democrats need to use them as cover? They promised to deliver 60-70 votes. They did. Kusinich above said that Obama dictated the elimination of the cram down provisions, a big, big issue with many Democrats which might explain those 95 votes.

    As an aside, as a former Kusinich supporter, I appreciate his honestly but wish he’d given more of a damn about principle back when it was bros before hos.

  293. These pols better get working at getting along better than this. The whole partisanship battle cry is nails on a chalkboard. They will all lose. You can’t represent constituents that put your greedy corrupt ass out.

  294. Wigwag: Jimmy Carter started all the deregulation …

  295. Let me point out one huge, glaring issue: Jesse Jackson, Jr, the co campaign chairman to the Obama campaign, voted NO. What does this tell you? Forget Nancy, Barney, Steny, Rahm. Why did this mouthpiece vote NO? Anyone have an answer?

    Commonsense would tell you that his vote would be a proxy to the an Obama wish. He is an Obama cheerleader. Why did he vote NO?

  296. John, why in the world are you quoting Cedeno.

    My apologies; she is reprehensible to put it the most mildly, but if I can quote Obama, or quote Stalin, I don’t see why I can’t quote Cedeno. I just needed a source that Obama sent that e-mail. But now other sites are reporting that an Obama spokesman made that statement, so I didn’t need to quote her after all.

  297. What I still want to know is – Where’s Hillary?

    She made a proposal that was completely ignored. Why isn’t she involved with fixing this mess?

    I DO NOT trust Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Dodd, Paulson, or Bernanke

  298. Now is the time for Hillary to go independent. How I wish she would.

  299. Mawm, on September 29th, 2008 at 5:55 pm Said:
    I’m sorry but Barney Frank is a big failure too. All he ever does is blame Republicans. Why haven’t Dems been able to do anything in the last two years?

    Don’t you think the fact that Democrats have only a one vote advantage in the Senate where 60 votes are needed to get anything done has something to do with it?

    I presume that is the reason that Riverdaughter has implored us to support down ticket Democrats.

  300. WigWag:

    Obama praises Reagan

  301. [[[[[[ crickets ]]]]]]]

  302. kenoshaMarge, I am not an economist, but I believe the theory is that no one is confident in any banks that hold a lot of mortgages because real estate values have dropped, and it is now known that many people got mortgages they couldn;t afford, so no one wants to lend money to these banks fearing they are not solvent. Injecting $700,000,000,000 into these firms is supposed to restore confidence in their solvency and therefore lead to continued lending. If the big loans to banks dry up, so do the small loans to average people and small businesses.

  303. WigWag:

    Dems passed the FISA bill

  304. Pat, maybe because ACORN is out?

  305. Bush is disappointed the bill didn’t pass. His portfolio lost some pocket change. *sniff*

  306. ladyboomer- are you sure this is the right tally in your link? I haven’t been able to reach the vote count myself, and this doesn’t look like the right title. Last night’s discussion draft said this: “Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008”.

    H R 3997 RECORDED VOTE 29-Sep-2008 2:07 PM
    QUESTION: On Concurring in Senate Amendment With An Amendment
    BILL TITLE: To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide earnings assistance and tax relief to members of the uniformed services, volunteer firefighters, and Peace Corps volunteers, and for other purposes

  307. dakinikat, on September 29th, 2008 at 5:58 pm Said:
    Wigwag: Jimmy Carter started all the deregulation

    Come on, he deregulated exaclty one industry, airlines. And it actually worked (kind of).

    It’s Ronald Reagan who convinced Americans that goverrnment was the problem not the solution. Reagan was the anit-Roosevelt.

    All Americans are now suffering for following his ignorant philosophy. That would be the philosophy of the Republicans.

    Supporting the “fab 4” listed on the top lright of this website is one way to return to sanity.

  308. I trust Bernanke … Paulson, kinda sorta … every one else … No Way!

  309. myiq2xu, on September 29th, 2008 at 6:01 pm Said:
    Obama praises Reagan

    Yes he does, which is one of his many, many failings.

  310. Several years ago someone from the government brought before a House committee issues surrounding the head of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That person was hideously skewered by members of the Black Cong. Caucus along with Barney Frank. The person he was referring to was Franklin whatever his last name is who now serves as an “adviser” to the King in Waiting. No one wanted to hear any of this. The black congressmen and women were up in arms that anyone would even question Franklin Woosis.

    So let us not just place all this blame on Repubs. The Dems buried their pointed heads in the sand right along with them. Now the crisis has erupted and instead of working to resolve this quickly and as painlessly as possible, they are too worried about saving their beloved seats in congress. To hell with all of them. They all need to go.

  311. The Democrats used to say they were useless and forced to capitulate because they were in the minority. Now they’re useless because they don’t have a large enough majority. If they had a supermajority, they’d be useless because they don’t have 100% control. if they had 100% control, it would be because they couldn’t expand the chamber to a million members.

  312. WigWag, that is the excuse they always give, but how does Bush always get everything he wants too? I would buy their excuses if they would have ever stood up to Bush, but they didn’t. They always gave him whatever he asked for. I now believe that they never wanted to pass the sort of legislation they get elected to pass. They are in the tank for Wall Street. They are not on our side. They have to keep up appearances, though.

  313. Pat Johnson, that’s a very interesting question.

  314. Instead of blaming Reagan or Carter for deregulation in genere, I’d like to determine who caused the Fannie/Freddie crisis. It seems to me that Democrats caused it by facilitating bad loans and blocking oversight.

  315. I may not be a math major but I can count. If one party has the 217 votes to pass this bill and 94 of their own members defected, how do you pass the blame onto the Repubs? Am I going crazy here or what?

  316. “myiq2xu, on September 29th, 2008 at 6:01 pm Said:
    WigWag: Obama praises Reagan”

    It’s one of the reasons I can’t stand Obama. And yes Democrats voted for FISA, but McCain supported it. So did Bush. So did Obama.

    I never said you should vote for Obama. But Riverdaughter is right. Anyone who votes for down ticket republicans is part of the problem not the solution.

  317. JohninCA: Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!

  318. Robin- That was my thought.

  319. They need to get their asses back right now and fix it.

  320. Help me out, Charles and WigWag, it’s my understanding that Fannie and Freddie didn’t really particpate in the sub prime craziness.
    Is that not right?

  321. Acorn started it. F & F contributed. Obama worked for Acorn – bad mortagages to people who could not afford it. A “social experiment” that went bad. And, unscrupulous group that sold worthless paper.

  322. John in Ca – I think Frank also shares in that chutzpa award as he said after complaints that Pelosi spooked GOP voters:
    “Because somebody hurt their feelings they decide to punish the country. … I mean, that’s hardly plausible<” said Frank. noting that the number of Republicans insulted was the same needed to pass the legislation. “I’ll make an offer. Give me those 12 people’s names and I will go talk uncharacteristically nicely to them.”

    Maybe he should talk nice also to the 95 Dems who voted “no”

  323. Unless I am losing my grip on reality, Jesse Jackson, Jr. does not vote in a vacuum. Someone, somewhere, and possibly by cellphone, indicated how he should cast his vote. He would never do anything to go against Obama. Something is not right here.

    Nancy called for a vote not knowing she did not have a full count? No way. She and Hoyer have worked that floor for years, they know how to count. Something else is at work here and I am not one to fall for conspiracies. This is politics as usual, not the at all designed to help the public. It is all designed to gain or separate votes going into the election. It stinks like yesterday’s garbage and members of both parties need to be suspicious. These guys are not our friends.

  324. I missed it-damn I am lucky I have lived with out credit for 10 years-I think we the people need an equity stake in every bank that draws on this money!

    -not a majority but say warrants that when excersized would equal 1/4 intrest in each bank and that stake can veto any executive compensation package.

    I think when the banks come back the american people as risk takers should profit handsomely from the turn around because it is “we the people” who are assuming all this risk we deserve a reward equal to the risk assumed.


  325. Pat J: thank you.

    While most here are trying to express themselves rationally, two posters insist on offering nothing but party dogma, boilerplate, and ritual exorcisms of Reagan.

    And they say *Republicans* are beholden to the religious right?

  326. Nader on the bailout.

  327. I believe I did read earlier in the morning that Kucinich said they didn’t have the votes. But I also read that Nancy kept that vote open for 40 minutes which may mean she wanted it passed.

  328. What do you expect from our ruling class who would rather blame others than work together for the benefit of the country?!

  329. Regency is right. This is an election year. The calls to congress were overwhelmingly against the bailout. Given these, today’s vote outcome was not surprising. Now, they should go back to work and conjure something that will work, will make sense, be fair, and will pass. And they better be working their asses off selling it to the voters.

  330. Dick Morris says that there will be a bill, just a better one than the one that just went down. I think that is highly likely. The question is what happens to the markets between now and then.

  331. If it wasn’t for the Repub Congresspeople, we would have had Paulson’s original bill with Acorn in it and no oversight. If McCain hadn’t gone to DC no one would have even listened to the Repubs in Congress. They saved us all.

  332. no, Sweet Sue … they were big players … they bought those loans and packaged them from the originating lenders … in fact, some bank mergers were stopped by ACORN and members of the Black Congressional Congress, they said they wouldn’t let the mergers go through unless Citibank, for one, would make MORE of them and there guarantees that FANNIE or FREDDIE would buy them…

  333. Charles

    How true. And the contagion has spread across the Atlantic. Banks owning US bank debt are beginning to resign themselves to never seeing their money. Banks have failed or are about to fail all over. Germany, France, Holland, and the Benelux countries are using govt. regulation and funds to keep their financial structures from collapsing.

    In reading an article in Spiegel I was once again transported to the logical, non-partisan, lets roll up our sleeves attitude, and the intelligent analytical no-holds barred analysis their media presents of the situation at hand. Nothing was beautified but solutions were presented. Blame will be laid by the various parties on one another, when the debacle is over.

  334. While most here are trying to express themselves rationally, two posters insist on offering nothing but party dogma, boilerplate, and ritual exorcisms of Reagan
    Well, I guess that would be me. I’ve voted Democratic for thirty years because I agree with the liberal view of government. Reagan clearly did not.
    For a long time, I assumed that most Conflucions did.
    Exactly, what is boilerplate? I really don’t know.

  335. Pat—I’m telling you, I’m not one for conspiracy theories either, but something smells to high heaven here. Something’s not right. Pelosi is shaking–can everyone see that or is it just me?? She looks like a deer in headlights.

  336. JohninCA, we are just giving our opinion. That is what this site is for (I presume). There’s no rudeness here. There’s no Obama supporting. In fact the only politicians I recommend supporting are the ones Riverdaughter listed.

    If you have something constructive to say, why don’t you say it?

  337. Here’s a link to an colleague of mine, he’s an economics prof at Texas

    Click to access Liebowitz_Housing.pdf

  338. They started a “social experiment” and the sharks from both parties followed the chum. I don’t care if they are black, white, pink, blue, they all got in on the scam. Offering people homes whose income could never cover the expense was criminal but those who took advantage had to know that a giveaway is sure to collapse under its own weight if you have no investment up front.

    We are asked for proof of identity to simply cash a check. These loans were handed over without any form of credit checking and some people who had already defaulted on other mortgages were given yet another.

    Sorry, but I still believe you have to earn your way in society. A helping hand is all fine and dandy but handing over the keys to those who have nothing to back up the loan while expecting others to pick up the pieces at such risk is criminal. Period.

  339. Pat J-you have summed up things so well. The is something below the surface. And I know it probably is tin foily but htis whole primary season smells from it too. It is like watching a movie or something.

  340. I just got to tell the Obama-Biden polling folks that I wasn’t voting for them …. rofl, well, at least something went good today

  341. Ok so what did fuzzybeargville really miss today?

    On the plus side Oil Prices fell!

  342. Wigwag, I’m no Reagan fan, never have been, but apportioning all, even most of the blame to the Repubs for this economic meltdown isn’t going to cut it. For one thing, it’s the Dem party which allowed ‘liberal’ to become a dirty word, thereby transforming traditional liberal policies (oversight and regulation, for starters) and voters into dirty business by implication. Concurrently, a whole lot of Dems began sinking their hands deeper and deeper into the lobbyist/power-for-power’s-sake cookie jar. The usual jeremiads against Repubs are beginning to ring pretty hollow with those of us who see two parties out there on the floor executing the same damned tango.

  343. anyway, that link above is a nonacademic explanation of his research and talks about how involved Fannie and Freddie were in the sub prime market

  344. Pat J-you have summed up things so well. There is something below the surface. And I know it probably is tin foily but this whole primary season smells from it too. It is like watching a movie or something.

  345. Can we please stop lecturing and scolding one another? We are all in this together, like it or not, and this does not help. Everyone has a right to express their opinion while keeping in mind that all here may not share their viewpoint. I like to think that we are simply conversing, thinking out loud, attempting to make sense of the mess we find ourselves in and not by our own reckoning.

    We can agree to disagree but let’s try to be sensible. We need one another if nothing else.

  346. This isn’t about partisanship. The failure of the bailout bill was due to a bipartisan consensus that it was NDG

  347. I was going to say, on my economics post I rely on academic literature since I can, and I found it funny, myiq2xu that the same person that was criticising my first post, linked to a link and quoted a lot of the same stuff from that link that I did in my second post … did you notice we didn’t get the racism slam, also on that one?

  348. If I’m wrong, I apologize but Krugman said so and he’s almost always right, imo. He’s been warning that the housing bubble was going to burst and take down the economy with it.
    Quoting Krugman’s latest column.
    And then he found a new set of villains — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored lenders. (Despite some real scandals at Fannie and Freddie, they played little role in causing the crisis: most of the really bad lending came from private loan originators.) And he moralistically accused other politicians, including Mr. Obama, of being under Fannie’s and Freddie’s financial influence; it turns out that a firm owned by his own campaign manager was being paid by Freddie until just last month.

    Can I have Hillary back now, please??

  349. What Pat J. said.

  350. I am not the most informed of people … so I have a question about something that is probably obvious to all here. 133 Republicans voted Nay as compared with 95 democrats. So why are the Repubs doing the blaming? Should it not be the other way round?

    Thanks in advance.

  351. “Money, money, money, makes the world go round.” This is all they care about. Oh, and maintaining their seat in congress. What a bunch of grifters. They sit on their swollen fat asses and we are supposed to be impressed. The whole kit and kaboodle needs to be replaced.

    They should put some first class economists, financial analysis, and top notch auditors to work who will come up with a plan that will appeal to both sides. Enough of this finger pointing, they are all equally to blame. I am sick to death of the bunch of them.

  352. Apparently, democrats are willing to forgo oversite and regulation when their campaign coffers are being lined by these banking companies who don’t want the regulation or oversite.

  353. S: P.O.L.I.T.I.C.S.

  354. Commonsense would tell you that his vote would be a proxy to the an Obama wish. He is an Obama cheerleader. Why did he vote NO?

    Because he’s in a tight reelection bid? I don’t know, though, I’m just guessing.

  355. This isn’t about a housing bubble with an ongoing increase in value of the homes, this is mortgage fraud getting past among the markets until the music stopped and there were no more seats left for the financial institutions to sit.


  356. SweetSue: Paul’s thing is International, not money and banking …and all of them are under Fannie and Freddie’s influence … but the dems are big time …he didn’t say obama wasn’t, he just said McCain had an advisor in their largess too …

  357. We all agree that something has to be done. Nevertheless, we expect it to somehow advantage us and not them. Let’s face it: they just don’t give a rat’s ass about us. We are superfluous. It is all about them.

  358. dakinkat, I love your gravitar. Is that the green fairy?
    She’s legal now.

  359. WigWam & SweetSue– I rarely accuse the regulars here of anything heinous. Boilerplate just means repeating familiar slogans.

    What I’m saying is it’s fine to blame Reagan if there’s evidence, but the evidence suggests that congressional Democrats are to blame for the Fannie Mae crisis.

    As for being constructive, I posted video evidence upthread from NQ about congressional Democrats blocking oversight of Fannie Mae.

    That may be unpleasant for loyal Democrats to watch, but I hardly think it’s not constructive, unless “constructive” is redefined to mean whatever helps Democrats.

  360. McCain and Palin with help from Hillary, Cuomo, Romney need to win the WH and clean up the gutters of Congress and Senate.

  361. you’ll see in the leibowicz analysis that subprimes AND other mortgages have been tanking pretty equally …there’s not been a statistically signficant difference between the prime and subprime markets on adjustables or on failures

  362. WigWag,

    I doubt Hillary Clinton would have voted for this bill in its present form. She wan’t something in there that protects the home owners and not just the CEO’s and polotitions who have made out like bandits.

  363. I think this was a very good discussion. It got a little heated but nobody lost control which makes this site head and shoulders above most blogs.

  364. Brittania: Jesse Jackson, Jr. is a minion. He votes however he is told. And he voted NO for a reason. That was my only point. Why? My guess is that is has to do with Barack Obama.

    And does anyone not think for a moment that Bill Clinton as president would not have been up for the last 3 days trying to work with both sides? That is leadership.

    Bush, Obama, McCain, all detached. None want this sludge climbing up their trousered legs.

  365. between 2006 and 2007 a huge portion of the defaults were just prime mortgages …these are Fannie and Freddie type loans …

  366. from 2005 back, they both tanked about the same rate … it’s the prime mortgages that are hugely tanking right now …

  367. Bush, Obama, McCain, all detached. None want this sludge climbing up their trousered legs.

    And the awful thing is Pat, that they’ll all be fine.

  368. I lost control with some of the comments. I just didn’t let it show.

  369. JohninCA, I agree, Democrats are to blame. They didn’t provide appropriate oversight for Fannie and Freddie and Bill Clinton shouldn’t have appointed Franklin Raines.

    But it’s the Republicans who are the deregulators. That’s been true for 30 years. The Democrats turn bad when they imitate Republicans.

    I don’t think Obama can handle the current crisis but I know McCain can’t either. After all, for months McCain relied on Phil Gramm. Gramm is truly one of the real villains not only of this imbroglio but also of the Enron scandal.

    Gramm was fired after he said Americans who complain about the economy are whiners. But for that statement he would have been a likely Secretary of the Treasury nominee for McCain.

    Gramm is coauthor of one of the pieces of legislation most responsible for this problem.

  370. Here’s a view that I tend to agree with:

    “Once the initial reaction passed, the pulic began begrudgingly to accept that the bill was gonna happen, even though they were none too pleased… and then the Democrats politicized the hell out of it.

    Reid called out McCain, so McCain called him on his bluff and headed to DC. Reid then backpeddaled when Obama decided to stay on the trail. Bush said ”oh hell no, you are not gonna callout my boy and then sit on the sidelines” and ordered Obama back to DC too. Pelosi began bashing the Republicans saying that the Democrats bear no responsibility what-so-ever. Obama led some talks, apparently poorly, that ended up in shouting matches. Democrats began to rail against the “failed Republican economic philosphy” when in actuality, the Dems bear as much responsibility as the Republicans, the Banks and, honestly, the people that took loans they could not afford or did not understand.”

    Key passage:

    “and then the Democrats politicized the hell out of it.”


  371. “133 Republicans voted Nay as compared with 95 democrats. So why are the Repubs doing the blaming? Should it not be the other way round?”

    Well, first of all, Democrats are doing plenty of blaming. Secondly, Democrats control Congress. If you’re the majority party and you can’t pass a bill with 25% support from the minority party, then it would appear you have a bit of a problem any way you slice it. Either the bill is just flat out atrocious, your leadership skills are lacking, or both.

  372. I am confused the Democrats are blaming repugs for the failure of this legislation? Pat Lady Boomer pls help me understand?

  373. and I seriously think Raines is being looked at by the FBI for good reason … congress may have passed on doing anything but pressuring him to quit, but I don’t think the FBI will …

  374. Sweet Sue: Have any of them had to gas up a car lately or actually know the price of a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread? Have any of them not had a vacation or two this year? Are any of them driving 10 year old cars back and forth to work? Are any of them sweating out the cost of health care or tuition? Are any of them afraid for their 401Ks? Didn’t think so.

    It is us who live in that world and us who eventually pay the price while these pols spend most of their time schmoozing and thinking about their various legacies. The disconnect is huge.

  375. Molly Ivins on Phil Gramm:

    “Even his friends don’t like him”

  376. I think Pelosi lacks all leadership skills and Read is not any better!

  377. myiq: That summation you offered is what most of us have been dancing around for the last hour. Put more succinctly, this is exactly the issue at hand.

  378. Got that right, Pat.

  379. CBS – Katie Couric interviewing Palin and McCain together in just a minute.

  380. Kendall Johnson, on September 29th, 2008 at 6:35 pm Said: WigWag, “I doubt Hillary Clinton would have voted for this bill in its present form. She wan’t something in there that protects the home owners and not just the CEO’s and polotitions who have made out like bandits”

    I just don’t think that’s realistic, Kendall Johnson. One of her key political allies in the Senate and the other NY Senator was involved in drafting this bill. It’s just not realistic to think she would have voted against a bill Schumer helped write,

    And despite the fact that people at the Confluence seem to have turned on Barney Frank. He is a close Clinton ally who supported her to the end. You think she would have voted for a bill he helped write?

    I don’t.

  381. SweetSue: yup it’s the green fairy and i know … I love her, especially on a brisk fall night

  382. sorry reid-eating a Marie Callenders chicken pot pie…yum!

  383. sheesh, Lou Dobbs just slammed Wolf for ignoring Biden’s gaffes and spending a lot of time on the Couric interview and Palin’s weirdness…

    that’s pretty gutzy

  384. Lou Dobbs has his moments.

  385. how do we charge the entire congress with treason?
    This is criminal!

  386. and lou just said it was a great day for americans that the failure of the bailout was a victory for the free enterprise system …

  387. The Dem leadership tried to put all the blame for the mess on the GOP and give them none of the credit for fixing it.

  388. Lou has been calling oit the Media on Obamafacination for months like since super tuesday

  389. I love Marie Callenders pot pies.

  390. WigWag: I personally do not care if Barney lunches every Sunday with the Clinton’s. That is strictly beside the point. If he had not been so reluctant to put some pressure through his committee on some of the tactics presented to them, and was not so condescending regarding any criticism of Franklin Raines, we may have avoided some of this mess.

    Party loyalty, personal loyalty, does not preclude someone’s culpability. He is as much up to his eyebrows as anyone else rushing to make their case in front of the cameras. Hillary or no Hillary, he is still a blot on the matter.

  391. Main Street has no sympathy for Wall Street.

  392. Our estemed Democratic Party has desended into anarchy! Petty turf wars and in-fighting are the mark of the day.

  393. Sarah stepped up and slapped down Katie, McCain was happy to see a cat fight!

  394. Carol, details please? I don’t have teevee.

  395. Wolf playing the interview.

  396. JohnCa- I know I am also a fan of her Coconut Cream Pie! I loved it when she had restraunts and you could go in order and eat or take it home-I bet her restraunts ar closed now.

  397. I have no sympathy for outright stupidity and greed. Most of those Wall Street fat cats come with degrees from Wharton School of Business, one of the most prestigious institutions in the nation for business. Many are Harvard and Princeton grads. No excuse for not understanding where this could lead.

    Obviously they lacked degrees in honesty and integrity. Like Pooh, they could not get enough of the honey. Someone has to pay for those zillion dollar yachts and one million square homes.

  398. Pat Johnson, on September 29th, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    McCain was working. He asked to suspend the campaigns and Obama refused.

  399. Yikes!

    Look wherever you wish, it’s bad

    Britannia: It’s not only Wall Street who’s in trouble. Main Street is more in trouble that you can imagine. Too bad, nothing in Washington saw the need to clearly explain that to Joe Schmoe.

    Which genius came up with the name “Bailout”? That certainly help sink the bill.

  400. Pat Johnson, I think you have a point. But I tend to respect Hillary Clinton’s judgement about these things. She knows Barney Frank far better than I do. If Barney is good enough for Hillary, he’s good enough for me.

  401. Hate to say it but this country needs a full scale depression. It needs to purge itself and start all over again. Only sad thing about that is the folk who pillaged these last few centuries will just have to give up some luxury. The rest of us will suffer. We’ve created kings and queens that a silly depression won’t unseat.

  402. Downticket: It was only the week before that McCain pronounced the economy as “sound”. Who are we supposed to put our trust in?

  403. Has anyone found out why the 95 Dems voted no and why Nancy would bring this to the floor if she didn’t have the votes? 95 votes is alot of votes to miscount !

  404. PJ @ 6:53 pm: Uhuh.

  405. Obama may speak “AT” the American People about the financial crisis that he did not cause-he is not responsible…

    1) He was not in the Senate when all this started

    2) He voted present on all legislation hence did not support it

    3) It is Hillary’s and McCains fault because everything is their fault!

  406. Katie questioned Sarah’s response to a person that yelled a question to Sarah and Sarah’s answer regarding attacking across the border of Pakistan. She interrupted McCain as he sat smiling and thought “damm I’m good.”

    McCain then went on to say “He remembered the gotcha times when ‘Reagan was a cowboy, Clinton was just a Governor from a small state and how Bush was going to beat him’ and then proceed to say how pleased he and the American people are with her.

    Katie got slapped.

  407. and lou just said it was a great day for americans that the failure of the bailout was a victory for the free enterprise system …

    Somehow I think that’s brilliant. We’re all damned, but it’s brilliant.

  408. There are the good…and then there is the bad.

  409. Thanks, Carol.

  410. Michael: Agreed. And if you really need him, give him a call. Otherwise he is campaigning. Much too busy to give a rat’s ass. Would someone please, please, please show some leadership here without asking “what is in it for me”?

  411. Of course obama is an idiot!

  412. Pat – Cramer said this morning that the fundamentals of the economy were strong. However, a few can chip away at the base quickly.

  413. Michael P.– They actually have a Marie Callenders restaurant not far from me in Chula Vista CA. The only brand I like better is Claim Jumpers.

    My apologies for going slightly OT, but at least this subject induces a better mood than the bailout…

  414. Pat J.

    Interesting catch on the JJJr. thing. It certainly does make you think…

  415. Fuzzy:

    “Of course obama is an idiot!”

    Keep saying things like that and we’ll start calling you Capt. Obvious

  416. myiq, if they were going to politicize it anyway, they could have taken the side of America and publicly stated that the cram down provisions and limits on executive compensation were non-negotiable.

    Oh wait, what am I saying?

  417. I think Pelosi did this on purpose. Now Obama is going to D.C. and they’ll pass the bill and make him look like a hero.


  418. Or maybe Obmabi will buy an hour of TV time to talk ot the American People about some one they may not have yet had a chance to learn about-His favorite person-Barak Obama!

    Our economy is crumbling and Obama is not the savoir the Obamabots were waiting for!

  419. Carol: Not if you listen to the talking heads. The market is going into a free fall, payrolls will not be met, workers laid off, savings wiped out, no one will be able to buy or sell a home, car sales will disappear, college tuition unpaid, 401Ks depleted. What “strong economy” is he referring to?

  420. I love the Captain Obvious reference!! We are all guilty of that.

  421. Nancy gave a speech on the bail out that was so partisan (not post partisan) that it was like throwing 1,000,000 gallons of gasoline on a forrest fire!

    So it is really her fault-she needs to resign! Now!

  422. JohninCA: may I add that Marie Callendar’s cornbread is also very tasty!! 🙂

  423. Tomorrow another big drop is predicted-our political system is paralized!

  424. Okay, now I’m hungry.

  425. paper doll, on September 29th, 2008 at 6:54 pm Said:
    Has anyone found out why the 95 Dems voted no and why Nancy would bring this to the floor if she didn’t have the votes? 95 votes is alot of votes to miscount !

    paper doll, she may have thought that she had them. The bill passed at first on an aye vs. nay vote. Then, some members asked for a recorded vote-where an individual ‘s vote would be on the record, and, I think that’s when votes began to change.
    Or Boehner might have lied about how many votes he had to offer. Then the Republican leadership came out and insisted that they lost votes because Pelosi made partisan comments that hurt the feelings of some Congressmen. And they said it in the most non-partisan way, but natch. Wink, wink.

  426. I think I may go on Valium starting right now. It just occurred to me that I am angry, angry, angry. If this keeps out, I will need a bailout from the padded cell because the excuses these people offer remind me of when my kids were small. “It wasn’t me. It wasn’t me.” Of course it was.

  427. JohnCA really-I love all her stuff-I will have to try to find her cornbread.

  428. Now, the Dems are telling the Repubs they will rewrite it the way they want – here comes ACORN!

  429. I presume there are no Obama supporters here. Some of us don’t plan to vote for President. Some of us won’t vote or will vote for a third party candidate.

    But those who want McCain to win better hope a plan gets passed fast or McCain is toast.

    This is what Krugman just said on his blog.

    “Just worth pointing out: Henry Paulson’s decision to let Lehman fail, on Sept. 14, may have delivered the White House to Obama. “

  430. Carol: There you go! And I bet I am right on the Jesse Jackson, Jr. vote which is leading to just this rewrite.

  431. Okay – I’m going to get on the treadmill to lower my stress and glucose level…………… I can’t keep up with the depression and cornbread ……………………

  432. I will be funny Carol-because we will see a 49 member tag team fillibuster in the Senate on this type of bailout!

  433. Pat you have not been paying attention
    It’s Reagan’s fault.
    Pass the valium please

  434. Forbes on CNBC

  435. Such a large fillibuster could go on forever! Republicans Hate ACORN.

  436. WigWag: You are correct, there are no Obama supporters here and never have been. The thought of Obama in the WH is overwhelming to us. Some of us are very conflicted on what we will do on November 4th but none of us is voting Obama at this time.

  437. Carol: we’re only talking about cornbread, not eating it! Anyway, cornbread is comfort food! 🙂

  438. Clyburn standing behind Nancy makes me want to hurl.

  439. catarina: So easy to blame the dead guy.

  440. My take on this is that Pelosi knew – and they were not going to vote yes on the bill without the ACORN earmarks which they need.
    hey will allow more panic to set in over the next two days, and believe that a properly chastised group of Republicans, too afraid to lose the election, and to have things get worse, will give them our $$$ for ACORN and anything else they want.

    This is also why Obama did not want the provisions included for bankruptcy (Kucinich said he didn’t want them included). In the next round, when the Dems get what they want, he’ll be the savior and on his way to the Presidency.

  441. Carol: Me too! (I am now beginning to sound like Obama.) Pass the Valium and any other numbing substance please.

  442. Heidi Li has a post on the topic : “Ed O’Reilly continues to use his voice – the one that gained him a third of the Massachusetts Democratic Primary voters on September 16”


    I found the very last paragraph especially interesting.

  443. Pat Johnson, that’s why the bail out needs to pass. If it doesn’t get uses to hearing “Hail to the Chief” whenever Obama walks in the room.

    McCain was winning until the financial system tanked. If the financial system is rescued and the crisis passes, McCain still has a chance. If not; as I say, he’s toast.

  444. SweetieSue, no offense, but if nancy thought a bailout of this magnitude that’s got so much opposition across the country was going to pass by acclaimation and no one would have to go on record, then she needs to resign immediately.

  445. Charles: Speaking of which, I received my statement in the mail over the weekend from one of the credit card companies and they upped my interest rate from 19 to 24%. And I hardly use this card. Cancelled it immediately as I have A+ credit and have never been in default. I am now paying for some poor soul who is probably charging his meds to one as we speak. Or buying a flat screen tv.

  446. Pat, McCain did not say “the economy is strong”. He said the fundamentals of the economy are strong, and spelled out in his expanded statement what he meant by that. I have heard many, many economists and business people repeat that same statement, that the fundamentals are strong, dozens of times this week. Cramer said it today. Obama said it today. Actually, in a time of crisis, that is a more helpful thing to say than “OMFG WE ARE SO SCREEEEEWWWWED”, if one is a public figure wishing to prevent market panic.

    McCain may not be an economic genius by a long shot, but continuing to sound-byte and twist what he said is not particularly honest.

  447. Seriously, I’m not offended. You have a very good point.

  448. And it’s SweetSue.

  449. Just got this email:
    Ric Edelman to host one-hour special tonight on WMAL at 8:00 PM EDT
    Congress Rejects Bailout Bill – What Does it Mean for You?

    Tune in tonight to a special edition of The Ric Edelman Show on 630 WMAL-Radio, Washington, DC as Ric explains what today’s defeat of the financial markets’ rescue bill and the plunging stock market mean to you.

    Ric will discuss the impact of today’s vote on retirement funds, mortgage financing, personal and business loan availability, and bank stability. He’ll also be taking your calls.

    In the Washington D.C. area, tune to NewsTalk 630 WMAL. Outside of Washington, listen to the streaming audio by going to: http://www.wmal.com or download the podcast later this week at http://www.ricedelman.com

  450. Nope, I have the exact same amount of sympathy for investors as I saw they had for average Americans, who were laid off all so investors could make an extra buck. Everytime a layoff is announced Wall Street applauds. Well, let the layoffs in Wall Street begin, so they can join the rest of us.

  451. WMCB: Let’s put it this way, they had to see that very same week that this was brewing. What if I walked away convinced that all was just fine because McCain indicated as much one week earlier. What am I, and millions like me, supposed to believe? This is my point. Not whether he is a genius or not. Words matter particularly said aloud by one who is seeking the Oval Office. My question: who do we believe? My answer: hardly anyone.

  452. Lou Dobbs talking about Acorn…embezzlement, voter fraud, loans to illegal aliens..

  453. Lou Dobbs exposing ACORN now.

  454. I just saw a clip on Dobbs of BO at a rally today stating how the bill that failed today because of the Republicans (ha!) was much better then the one Bush initially proposed because it had provisions in there to help the American people “that he demanded be in there.” What provisions were those?
    Dobbs also has a story on ACORN right now! I hope he talks about BO’s connection to ACORN.

  455. WigWag – If a household has no debt, is it any safer than anyone else right now? (No loans, no mortgage, no credit card debt.)

  456. Well, I’m tired of the bullshit. Can someone tell me how the hell anyone decided Obama knew shit about the economy? Krugman says the fall of Lehman’s might put Obama in the WH? WTF? Because a bunch of asshole pundits, followed by the drooling press and some mentally challenged pollsters decided that that would be the case?

    What the hell has Obama done to show that he knows tiddly-winks about the economy?

    The fact that his bloviating bullshit punks jumped on McCain for a statement they could twist into a pretzel?

    I ask again, what the fuck makes Obama know anything at all about the economy?

    “Oh, it’s the economy. Oh, the economy’s bad for McCain. Oh, if the economy stays bad then the presidency goes to Obama. oh ,oh oh”

    oh my ass!

    I’ve never seen bullshit travel as fast as this economy crap.

    No evidence, no record, no job title, zero, nothing, nada, no Obama experience on the economy at all.
    EVER! Or did Obama as community organizer and jesus stand- in balance the books in the city of chicago and the churches of the south side?

    (sorry for the rant.)

  457. I’m in agreeance. We’re ruined.

  458. Sorry, SweetSue.

  459. If we’re ruined, blame congress.
    They really could have done this.
    While Pelosi spewed the market tanked.

  460. Rant away! It keeps the blood pressure in check.

  461. This stuff just did not happen last Wednesday. They were running numbers long before this, probably since the middle of June.

  462. purplefinn,

    It’s odd that the professor needed to point out the obvious.

    Hmmmmmmmm People should pay their bills so they are later able to borrow again. Makes sense to me. If this is one of the big side effects of this “crisis” then I think we should roll with it.

    Personally, credit should tighten. If it hadn’t been so loose to begin with we wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with where so many are facing foreclosure.

  463. Ask and ye shall receive:

    Credit cards to ‘implode:’ analyst

  464. why is fox reporting that there are gas shortages including in raleigh nc.? it is simply a lie.I live here. I don’t believe anything any of them are saying. let the shit crash.

  465. The Repubs will lose because Dems have been seen as the Party for the economy since WWII, and this happened under Bush’s watch. Frankly, if McCain can’t get his ass to DC and do something for the people he deserves to lose.

  466. Arabella Trefoil, on September 29th, 2008 at 7:23 pm Said: WigWag – If a household has no debt, is it any safer than anyone else right now? (No loans, no mortgage, no credit card debt.)

    It depends. It;s great to own your home so no one can take it away from you (as long as you can afford to pay the real estate tax). But if you need a job, unemployment is likely to go up dramatically. It is also entirely possible that your bank might (and I say might not will) fail. If there are enough bank failures (pray their won’t be) FDIC won’t be able to cover the trillions of dollars on deposit. The government will have to reflate the economy by printing money. In the long run, this is hugely inflationary.

    In times of inflation it is actually better to be a debtor than a lender. That’s because debtors pay money back in dollar that are worth less than when they borrowed them in the first place.

    But that’s a problem for the future. For the short run, their are no good options.

  467. there is a coordinated effort afoot to cause panic. I’m sure of it. do not let it get to you, wherever it is coming from

  468. angelasmith — LOL I agree Obama hasn’t proven that he knows squat about the economy. The rationale though is that when the economy is bad, the people will automatically vote for the party that is not presently in the WH. That is why this was a “for sure win year” for the Dems. The problem, though, is that instead of nominating someone who knew what the hell she was talking about, the DNC decided to put the Precious up. I don’t care how bad the economy gets or what the polls say — the majority of the people of this country are not going elect Mr. Church of G.D. America as president.

  469. Don’t be fooled–both the Dem and Rep Leadership knew the exact vote count before they went in to vote- they could have postponed it until Thursday and worked on getting the votes they needed to pass it–but those that voted “no” will get to campaign that they voted “no” the first time….
    this all stinks of politics as usual…

  470. Gas shortages? Jesus H, we do not want to live through the next great depression.

  471. We now import over 70% of our oil. It is killing our economy.


    The higher fuel costs are passed on down the line – higher transportation costs, higher costs for food, etc.

    And inflation skyrockets!

    Getting our economy back on the right track must include a real pathway to American Energy Independence. We MUST take advantage of all our resources: Oil, natural gas, wind, solar, nuclear, fuel cell technology, etc.

    As far as investments, gold is, and has been for a very long time, a great investment.

  472. Anyone with any sense saw the writing on the wall long before June. Negative savings rates, wages not keeping up with inflation, poverty level based not on housing which comprised the bulk of hopusehold spending but antiquated method that uses food, over half of foreclosures caused by medical maladies and Congress ignores that and passes a bankruptcy bill anyway, a Congress that spends its time discussing steroids and naming post offices…….this has been a long time coming.

  473. Thanks, Seriously–no problem.

  474. angelasmith, your rant is both understandable and entertaining. But the simply reality is that before the crisis hit McCain was winning and increasing his lead. Now he’s losing and he’s falling further behind.

    A bail out helps McCain and hurts Obama. Actually, that’s why I think Jesse Jackson, Jr. voted no.

  475. CNN also reported gas shortages in the “south.” But it seems that’s been going on for a few weeks now.

  476. Lou Dobbs is orgasmic over the failed bailout bill.
    He thinks it’s the best thing since sliced bread.

    Gary I agree the panic must stop.

  477. CWaltz, remember that? Baseball players who juice were our biggest problem evah!

  478. CWaltz is right — everyone in the “know” knew this was coming. bk filings in my district jumped from 30 in one week to 90. (yes, I typed that right).
    Well, looks like it will be a good year for me — which bad news for this country.

  479. wigwag – I’m recently unemployed, but my husband is employed. I feel like we are idiots for spending the last 25 years saving money and paying cash only.

    It’s going to be hard on everyone.

  480. Gotta feed the hubs, loves. Be kind.

  481. gary, I honestly think that there has been a coordinated effort in all of this to help Obama. Call me tinfoil hat if you want, but this is just too neat for comfort, and the sudden coziness of certain leading Dems and the Bush admin leaves me cold. Some really big powers-that-be want this man in the Whitehouse, and they want it BAD.

  482. masslib, it’s not true, that’s what i’m talking about. I just got home from raleigh and gas is plentiful, and actually cheaper than its been it weeks.

  483. The gas shortages are due to hurricane Ike — not all the refineries in that area on back “on line” yet. They will be shortly.

  484. there’s been gas shortages here since the hurricanes … it’s because of the closures after Ike and Gustav, mostly it’s just been about 1/2 of the pumps shut off, but it’ hasn’t stopped yet

  485. wmcb, I agree. I got paid today, went to the bank, deposited my check and nobody was running around screaming. I’m sorry but I don’t buy any of it.

  486. I have informed my elected official that I didn’t want any earmarks in the “emergency” bill – certainly nothing that has to do with ACORN.
    Those guys and gals in DC are looking at this a Christmas all over again – there were millions in this last go around – no, no, no – just put enough in there to fix the mess they’ve created with a bit for a cushion dedicated to the issue, not pork

  487. I think that the people are going to be disappointed if they are expecting Obama to be their economic savior. His whole idea of fixing the economy was writing everyone a check. How’d that work out? Oh right even after the billions we are still talking about a second economic stimulus and we’ve had to bail out Bear stearns,Fannie, Freddie, AIG, the auto industry, and we aren’t even done yet.

  488. Ah, thank you Angie and Dakinikat.

  489. finally, a finance prof just said that the bad thing here was that congress didnt’ have ANY hearings so that experts could tell them what we’ve learned about this stuff in the past and what they’d recommend … profs should be fairly neutral unless they’re under contract to some one on wall street … couldn’t they round up a few experts before they went after this?

  490. Listen, somebody really smart once said “We have nothing to fear but fear itself”. Why aren’t our leaders saying that now? If it was seriously that bad why are they pushing people to panic instead of trying to assure people that all will be well? because they WANT the panic because they think it helps them politically. some of these people are borderline treasonous.

  491. Sweet Sue

    They are still discussing it. Six figure incomes and the whole lot of them spend their time naming post offices and discussing problems that are relevant to less than 1% of the population. It’s absurd. The whole lot of them should be fired.

  492. masslib:

    Dems have the majority and both sides have been playing politics with the issue. There is NO WAY on earth Dems on Capitol Hill are gonna let McCain look good on this issue. They would rather sabotage it altogether and the have the vote.

    There’s a reason Paulson begged Pelosi and no one else to not let the bill fail, but she couldn’t deliver and so far, she has been the worst Speaker in my lifetime.

  493. But dakinikat — hearings are so boring! and then people might have time so discover all the pork!!

  494. Actually there are about 25-30 economic experts who are saying that we probably should do nothing or give minimal support at best -this way the markets will all seek their proper level – makes sense when you think about it.

  495. You got it Gary. This is like some big ol’ play for the whole lot of them. We are nothing more than pawns to them and I loathe them for it.

  496. Dakinikat, Paulson’s panic probably gave people in DC the impression there was no time to be wasted on hearings. I wonder if many Americans even knew who Paulson was before all this.

  497. MABlue — I saw on the news today that the failure of this bill was a “big blow” to McCain because he went there to deliver Republicans — no mention that he did get 65 Republicans to support it.
    Also a lot of good Dems (Kuchinick) didn’t vote for this bill because of the fact that the bill gave no protections to the little guy — I applaud that.

  498. IronMan, crude oil went down $10/barrel today.

  499. Mr. and Mrs. America are not currently concerned about Obama or McCain. They are not paying attention to the presidential race and the silly posturing. This is just a media and beltway game.

    M/M America are just worried about their next paycheck.

    M/M America are, however, praying for someone to step into the leadership void. The dearth of leadership in the Democratic Party is staggering. The funny thing is that the new leader could be Bush. Gheez – what an opportunity and how disgusting.

  500. whatever happened to the “politics of change”?
    The more things change…the more they remain the same

  501. This plan didn’t solve the roots of the problem … hopefully, they’ll come back with a more systematic approach… not just put more money in to the hands of folks that were making sucky decisions to start out with

  502. Arabella Trefoil, on September 29th, 2008 at 7:34 pm Said: wigwag – I’m recently unemployed, but my husband is employed. I feel like we are idiots for spending the last 25 years saving money and paying cash only. It’s going to be hard on everyone.

    In my opinion, two things are already inevitable. At the very least we will have a serious recession with unemployment going to the 7-10 percent range. It is important to remember that up until 1992 unemployment rates of 6 percent weren’t uncommon, In fact there was a debate whether 6 percent unemployment might actually represent full employment.

    At some point, as things begin to recover (which they eventually will) all the liquidity the FED rushed into the system will cause inflation. The dollar will fall, prices for imported goods will explode,

    That’s the best case scenerio. The worst case scenerio is a full fledged depression. It may not be likely, but there is some reasonably high chance it could occur. If that happens we are talking about 20-30 percent unemployment with all of the resulting terrible effects.

    Either way, this moment may be historic, We may be witnessing the end of America as a super power, That’s why I say the Asian Century may have arrived.

  503. The economics prof. on Dobbs just said that the market only went down 9 points today and that the reporting on the msm is basically “panic” (he didn’t use that word, but I think it fits).

  504. The money boyz still want to control this country, they are just backing a new horse this year.
    They backed Bush, and now they are throwing their weight behind Obama.

  505. To me McCain’s response to the economic crisis hurt him more than the crisis itself. He would have been hurt in the polls regardless but the way he reacted made it worse. Suspending his campaign and trying to postpone the debate was a pretty transparent political ploy IMO. Plus he made it seem like he couldn’t manage two things at once which is what presidents have to do all the time. I’m still not clear on what he actually accomplished by being in Washington. So a lot voters could see him as ineffective now.

  506. angienc and you can be sure that the pundits won’t point it out. I agree with an earlier poster who said there seem to be some powers that be who want Obama bad. That alone gives me pause enough to vote McCain and make sure that I inform my little portion of the electorate in my neighborhood. I’m not sure why they want Obama but it’s downright creepy how much they are willing to slant things to get their way.

  507. WigWag — with all due respect — stop trying to scare people with this “end of USA as a super power” talk. One economics prof. on tv just said the bailout bill could have done more harm then good. Furthermore, with the interdependency of the world’s nations and the complexity of the global marketplace, there are no real “superpowers” any more.

  508. voter fraud discussion on Dobbs..

  509. McCain was exactly right. His place was in Washington. Only a dolt would think a televised debate was more important than figuring out how to secure the economy. Unfortunately he didn’t push back hard enough when they took him to task for multitasking. When I want something done right and its important I don’t do two things simultaneously. I concentrate my attention on what is important and prioritize.

    Media is our biggest problem.

  510. My sentiments exactly CWaltz — “they” want Obama worse then they wanted Bush — and we all know how that turned out. Every year for the last 40 years of their marriage my mom voted against whoever my dad voted for. This year, I’m voting against who the msm, et al are voting for.

  511. If you are basing our superpower status on economics then we were displaced long ago. We have a big enough trade imbalance that there was talk about changing the exchange rate from dollar to euro. That occured BEFORE this financial meltdown caused by greed and Wall Street’s desire to bleed Main Street of every single cent they could by charging exorbiant interest rates and creative loanmaking.

  512. I committed a rant and ran.
    Unlike the economy, I seem to be quite stimulated.
    I was over at NoQuarter where Rezko is the topic. I love me some Rezko.

  513. lol angela
    a girl’s gotta entertain herself, right?

  514. and there are plenty of “economic experts” who collaborated to put us squarely where we are today. Oh and they did it with the help of the GOP AND DEMOCRATS.

  515. tis true catarina. tis true.

  516. Charles, the sky isn’t falling and McCain and his supporters just need to do their best to inform the electorate.

  517. By the way, we are experiencing near zero percent yields on short treasuries. Do you know the last time that happened?


  518. Oh lord, apparently there is a report out that says that when Couric asked Palin to discuss any other supreme court cases besides Roe v. Wade she blanked…the clip hasn’t aired yet, apparently it will air tomorrow? I believe Politico is reporting this…

    If this is true, Camp McCain has lost. I mean, I think the financial news and people’s anger at the Bush administration has made him lose, probably anyways, but if this is true about the Palin interview, she will go down in history…as something….

    I feel mad at the world. It should be Hillary being ushered in so we have a politician who has GD-clue as to what to do about this f****ing mess!

  519. Gary, you are such a voice of sanity … you could not be more right. While things do look like an unholy mess right now, panic can only make it worse. The vast majority of America will come through this just fine. Here’s why.

    1. Most bank deposits below $100,000 ( that’s the number I believe, could be higher than that) are FDIC insured. That money cannot be lost.
    2. Yes, the stock market is tanking right now. But it will go back up. It is just a matter of time. I would never suggest that the government just sit on its hands, but even if it did, the stock market as a whole would be back up in six months to a year.

    Yes, some companies will fold. Yes, there will be a liquidity shortage. Yes, small businesses will suffer unless that is addressed. And yes, there will be job losses if loans dry up. The government definitely needs to address that. But panic is very counterproductive in this situation. Here’s why.

    1. If we ordinary people rushed to banks withdrawing our deposits, even healthy and well-capitalized banks will face runs. This is not because they did not do their due diligence but because they have to retire their loans prematurely to pay back depositors if there are many depositors.
    2. If people are rushing to fill their cars expecting a gas shortage, guess what happens? Prices go up further.
    3. If people rush out to sell when the stock market is tanking, guess what happens? Stock prices fall further.

    This is not to condone the malpractices and lack of oversight that brought about this crisis. But we absolutely need to listen to these voices of sanity and not get played by fearmongers who are using the crisis for their personal electoral benefits.

  520. The Republican Party would rather see the economy collapse to protect their failed ideology than see a government intervention work.

    That’s what the Republican Party has come to. And to make matters worse, their strategy is stupid, Their Presidential candidate was winning. Now he’s losing.

  521. Wow, gloom and doom, ‘eh?
    I don’t think Obummer is gonna win.
    I may not be an economics guru (okay, I’m definitely not an economics guru), but I am really good at picking stars. Palin is a star. I don’t warm to her politics, but I know a star when I see one. That gal’s got it big time.
    I think the poll shift is due to a few things outside of economic issues (economics too, but not solely).
    They’ve made ol Sarah a punching bag for two weeks.
    And they’ve saddled McCain with being an economic
    hazard, but the dust is about to settle IMHO.

    Sarah will shine. McCain will show he is faithful to his country.
    People will want a known commodity at the helm during the uncertainty of the economy. (as soon as they can clear their heads from the constant media swirl of hysteria and blame).

    Octoberfest will come and Bambi’s associations will light up the hemisphere.

    There will be rejoicing in the streets.

  522. CWaltz,

    Well, I’m not a dolt. And I thought the debate should continue as did most of the country and the debate commission. I felt like the entire 90 minutes should have been on the economy. And unless I’ve missed something John McCain hasn’t figured out how to secure the economy. And I don’t consider his or Obama’s support for the bailout bill a solution.

  523. wigwag: It is just not the Republicans. 95 democrats voted against the bill.

  524. “Most bank deposits below $100,000 ( that’s the number I believe, could be higher than that) are FDIC insured. That money cannot be lost.”

    That is wrong. The FDIC has $50 billion in assets as of this week. The AIG bail out alone (done by Treasury, not FDIC) cost $87 billion.

    $50 billion is insuring trillions in assets. FDIC protection is an illusion in a real bank run.

  525. birdgal, on September 29th, 2008 at 8:14 pm Said:
    wigwag: It is just not the Republicans. 95 democrats voted against the bill.

    And every one should hang their heads in shame.

  526. WigWag

    No matter how many times you and Nancy Pelosi repeat that propaganda will not make it so. 95 DEMOCRATS voted against this bill. It was a bad bill. The Democrats and Republicans who voted against this bill voted against playing political kabuki. I applaud them.

  527. wigwag: yes, they should all hang their heads in shame. It was a bipartisan failure.

  528. In YOUR opinion WigWag. In my opinion, they did the right thing. Panicing after ignoring this for awhile is not attractive. I find those that voted for this bailout of questionable judgement.

  529. JJ, I don’t understand this idea that Palin “blanking” is a big deal. Obama repeatedly blanks. He didn’t know the name on his bracelet for chrissake! There are the clips of him without a teleprompter where he is in complete meltdown. Explain to me why the VP choice “blanking” is somehow more important that the presidential candidate “blanking”? Really, your post comes across to me like nothing more than Obamaganda.

  530. There’s a rumor that Couric asked Palin to name a
    Supreme Court case other than Roe v. Wade and Palin drew a blank?
    Hell, I’m a lawyer and it would take me a few minutes to rattle off some supreme cases.
    Brown versus State Board of Ed
    I don’t believe Palin has put herself out as a Constitutional Scholar. I think it would be so much more entertaining and appropriate to ask
    Obama the same question.
    Seeing as he does pretend to be a con law specialist.

    Senator Obama, can you name a supreme court
    case from 1970 to 1980? Can you name a supreme court case wherein Justice O’Connor wrote the majority opinion?

    Senator Obama, can you name the justices now sitting on the Supreme Court?

    Now really, how many of those questions do you think the Chosen Poser could answer?

    For that matter, can Couric answer what year Clarence Thomas was appointed?

    Playing gotcha is just far too amusing to these
    pseudo journalist hacks.

  531. Dee, on September 29th, 2008 at 7:45 pm Said:

    Mr. and Mrs. America are not currently concerned about Obama or McCain. They are not paying attention to the presidential race and the silly posturing. This is just a media and beltway game.

    M/M America are just worried about their next paycheck.

    M/M America are, however, praying for someone to step into the leadership void. The dearth of leadership in the Democratic Party is staggering. The funny thing is that the new leader could be Bush. Gheez – what an opportunity and how disgusting.


    This fits with what I’m seeing. Not sure how widespread it is… but it fits with what I’m seeing.

  532. gmx and angelasmith, I have to say that I disagree with you. I REALLY wanted to like Palin and have spent more time defending her to friends over the past two weeks than you can imagine, but she could not name a single other supreme court case? Brown v. Board of Education, Plessy v. Ferguson, Marbury v. Madison, etc, I mean I don’t know how much I could tell you about each of those, but I remember in very broad outlines that these were important cases…she couldn’t name a single one? That is a problem…I mean I guess my issue with her is that she has no breadth of knowledge at all. Depth you can acquire, but it sort of feels like she is missing the basics, and maybe not everyone needs the basics, but the VP does….

  533. so much abt making fun to suspend the campaign to deal with the financial crisis! although it seems it is above everybody’s pay grade!

  534. JJ: You must be an exception because off the top of my head I could NOT name that many court cases. I’m not a lawyer. Neither is she. She is a chief executive of a state. She knows about energy, she does know foreign policy, she knows domestic issues. She meets every qualification I need her to meet. She is not running for President.

  535. Let’s see……Have a politician go on TV to say what he has been saying since August or go to Washington to work on an economic meltdown? Hmmmmmmmm which is more important?

    As for multitasking, it’s responsible for car wrecks and any other number of horrendous things. The simple fact of the matter is if you try to do more than one thing at a time neither will have your full attention and the results can be calamitous.

    Most of the country also thought Bush would be a great President and thought Iraq was a great idea. You’ll forgive me if I find THAT argument a triflke absurd

    As for Barack Obama, how’d that economic stimulus thing go? I mean last I saw he was ridiculing Clinton for trying to add government spending to the mix. How’d that work out? Oh right. We now need a SECOND stimulus package that does what? Wait for it. That provides government spending. Obama is clueless. unfortunately, Harry Reid had it right. They all are.

  536. gmx,
    “obamaganda” (he, he) I love that.

  537. JJ, Is Palin a lawyer? Do you not realize that regular folks can’t name Supreme Court cases. Heck, most get Scalia’s name wrong. (Just google Anthony Scalia.) I agree with angelasmith. The gotcha games don’t sit well with me. And personally, I found it morally reprehensible that Obama would wear a band, in memory of a fallen soldier, and not even know the soldier’s name. That, to me, speaks volumes more than Palin being caught off guard with a gotcha question. Seriously, what other candidate has been barraged with these sort of questions? It’s disgusting and I believe that most Americans will see it for what it is.

  538. Alice

    Unfortunately M/M America are also fickle. They had a leader step up to the plate and offer to head to Washington. They told him it was more important that they get to watch him on TV. It’s the Iwant a President I can have a beer with all over again only this time it’s the President they want to “watch football with.” Sigh. Lord, save me from my countrymen.

  539. “Mark my words economic crisis leads to extremism be it of the left or the right. That’s Venezuela’s lesson or Ecuador’s or even Austria’s. The middle is withering and the extremes are gaining.”

    It’s also what happend in Weimer Germany As a young child, I lived in Germany right after the Weimer Republic failed. It led to facism and to Hitler. Financial crises are bad!

  540. Nancy Pelosi has no leadership skill.

    Harry (whorehouse) Reid probably still doesn’t know what’s going on.

    Barney Frank has a mouth full of marbles and is a liar to the enth degree.

    NO $ for ACORN.

    Chris Dodd took the most $ from Fannie/Freddie

    Barack Hussien Obama took the 2nd most $ even though he was there for only 3 years.

    We would have more gas if the envirowhackos would let us build more fucking refinerys.

    The Justice Dept is starting investigations of Freddie/Fannie management. Lobbiests too I hope. The sooner the better.

    Franklin Raines (Obama advisor) should have his millions stripped away.

    There needs to be JAIL TIME for the people who got us into this mess.

    Now is an excellent time to buy stock.

    I love football but MNF with Tony Kornhaurer makes my stomach hurt, so I need to turn the sound off. Go Steelers!!

    Here’s a football analogy for what is happening:

    A team is down 31 to 0 at the half. In the locker room, the coach tells the team, “It’s OK, the government is going to give us 31 points, so get out there and do what you did in the 1st half.”

  541. OMG! Steelers are wearing throwback jerseys, now my eyes hurt too.

  542. I’m with you gmx. I believe Palin also knows we have 50 states, whereas Obama seems stuck on 57. Now that, to me, is a little more worrisome than not being able to spout off the 5 most important Indian Law cases from 1860 to 1923.

  543. the good news is they cant come up with such crazy questions at the debate as Joey wont know neither, or he just would make some stuff up as he goes along….like TV in 1929/30!

  544. Gary,
    We’ve been having a gas shortage in Georgia for the past couple of weeks. I was literally stranded at home for a few days. At one point there was not a station within 25 miles with gas! I don’t understand it. Some one called and told me they saw a tanker truck at a station today and I got there 20 minutes later and there were 50 cars in line. When I finally got to the pumps, there was a $20 limit. They say the refineries that serve this area were still getting back up from the hurricanes. It makes no sense to me.

  545. Wow!!! 575 responses so far … it would appear that everybody’s got a comment on this. My own congressman voted ‘no’… and about those swing state polls: they’re fudging. In April, all the newscasts insisted that Obama had closed a 12 point gap to just 3 as of the weekend before the Pennsylvania Primary. By Tuesday, we confirmed what the phone bank people already knew: the polls are bogus cheer leaders for the chosen one. In the end, the margin was almost 10 points, and he outspent Clinton by more than 3.5 to $1.

  546. Pelosi —- what a nightmare.

    I have lots of links to info about Acorn’s role in all of this — articles and videos — you will be surprised, I was, today — when I looked more deeply into what they are about.

    As someone who has never taken a nickel from my gov — I feel some resentment about groups that think a Marxist commune is the way it should be.

    Corrupt, and also — the video on voter Fraud from 2006 sheds new light on yesterday and the truth squads in Missouri, no?

    Come by — hugs. What a nightmare.
    What a nightmare RD & Co. Especially when you realize who defrauded who ala Fannie and Freddie…………..

  547. I’m a lifelong Democrat and ashamed of my Party, especially Pelosi, Reid,
    Frank, Dodd, Obama. To blame it all on Bush is a joke. Where were the Dems
    who promised to turn things around? Why didn’t Pelosi and all stop the
    war, which is how they won in 2006? She’s now pontificating against the
    Repubs, and her hypocrisy makes me ill. Where was she? Where was the fight
    of the Dems till now?

    I’m right there with you. I am disgusted with the Dems. The Republicans, we’ve know who they are. The hypocrisy of the Dems is repellent. Imagine, sanctimonious Nancy chiding the Republicans for being “unpatriotic” for not attending meetings she didn’t invite them to. She is beyond disappointing.

  548. Well, Fancy Nancy blew it. She has the power to pass the bill but is afraid it won’t work and the failure will be hung at her door. The public is a long way from supporting the bill and they are giving Congress an ear full. The fiasco of payoffs and cronyism that has been the hallmark of Fannie Mae is becoming more and more of a story although not on the MSM. Yet. Certainly anyone who has a computer and the internet is aware of it. One way or another, this is going to haunt the Democrats for a long time.

  549. Thank God (and the House Republicans) that this stinking bailout bill failed. The housing bubble that was created by no oversight, no regulation has burst and requires a market correction, not a bailout.

    It’s painful, no doubt about it. But throwing good money after bad, which is what this stinking bill did, will not stop the bleeding. We’re in for more financial pain because our economy is overleveraged on debt.

    There’s no way to prevent bank failures. More will follow because lenders made very bad decisions for themselves. Foreclosures happening now involve poor to middle class loans. Wait until next year when the jumbo loans start resetting. That will bring more foreclosures, more bank failures.

    We can’t print enough money in the Treasury to cover the depth of this financial crisis. The markets are simply going to have to correct themselves. Banks and shareholders are taking the biggest hit as they should since they made the biggest profits over the years on the bubble.

    In the meantime, Congress needs to make low interest loans available so homeowners can refinance their mortgages and stay in their homes. That would put capital back into the banking system, from the bottom up. Congress should also pass work projects like roads, bridges, schools, etc. to keep Americans working, earning a paycheck, paying taxes and paying their bills.

    There’s a smart way to use taxpayer funds to shore up our financial system. Throwing $700 billion at Wall Street isn’t it. I’m glad the bill was defeated. Now Congress has to come up with a smart solution. Thanks to everyone who called/emailed their Representatives opposing the bill.

  550. If the people did’t agree with the bailout plan, why did the DJIA plunge so deep ?

  551. This is the mess you get when people who can’t lead are elected to positions of power. Positive proof that we should look very carefully at the choices we have to vote for because he will be dealing with this mess for the next four to twelve years. (The Reagan S&L crisis of the 1980s was still going on during Clinton’s first term in office.)

    McCain may not be the most effective leader we could elect, but he’s willing to get expert opinions and to listen. From Obama’s choice of mentors and friends (God damn America Wright?) and his narcissistic celebration of himself I seriously doubt he will take advice from anyone who might challenge his decisions and certainly not someone who might be intellectually superior. And frankly, without a teleprompter and an army of researchers, he isn’t too bright.

  552. For the astrological breakdown of the financisl meltdown, check out http://www.robertphoenix.com

  553. Something must and will be done My only qualm with the rejected package was the lack of oversight. It did, in fact contain, monetary safeguards for the government.

    There is no bailout package that’s going to create jobs. Only prevent widespread unemployment. It’s not going to put money into the pockets of middle America. Only prevent middle America from watching their income and benefit levels fall off the edge.

  554. Something must be done yes! By those that created the mess. The people that irresponsibly went out and purchased more home than they knew they could afford. They need to be held accountable. The companies that engaged in these practices need to be held accountable. And if they need to go under, then go under. I thought we were all about FREE MARKETS??? HMMM well unless they need a bailout…then it’s not a free market…

    No pain = no gain…and just like the S & L crisis of just 20 years ago, we’re doomed to repeat stupid behavior if no one in charge has to face the consequences of their actions!

  555. […] Um, I’d say that’s an understatement, Mr. President. The Republicans hated it. The Democrats threw a bunch of crap in there, then still voted against […]

  556. I can’t for the life of me understand why Pelosi who despises Bush was carrying the water for him on this bailout. Since when does she have a charitable bone in her body for Bush? Dems were salivating over the opportunity to load up Bush’s bill with goodies. Watch the Senate Wednesday. Their version of the bailout already has a provision for mental health benefits. These politicians are so attention-deficit. They can’t seem to focus on the task at hand — saving the economy. They love that pork too much! Voters are saying “No! No! No!” to an irresponsible bill. Adding pork to it will not make it more palatable.

  557. […] a measure of calm returning after the uproar following the House defeat of the bailout bill, the Taiwan dollar is on the rise in currency trading. Bloomberg reports on FX trading with […]

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