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ACORN, Fannie, Freddie, and Frank

On September 25, 2008, in a FOX News interview with Greta Van Susteren, I heard Lindsay Graham say something about his opposition to 20% of the proposed $700 billion financial bailout going to ACORN. I couldn’t believe my ears and tracked down one story at Hot Air, where Ed Morrissey has the video. Apparently, some of Michelle Malkin’s readers were on to it — Yikes! I’m citing conservatives. Hers was only the first story, now updated, as many others who heard also it did a double take.

Please see this June 18, 2008 press release along with a series of documents about ACORN issued by watchdog group, The Consumer Rights League. ACORN has also been linked to voter registration fraud in multiple states.

These documents – which include staff emails and internal organization policies – suggest that ACORN has failed to maintain a proper distinction between its tax-exempt housing work and its aggressive political activities.

Republicans are bucking Bush and demanding accountability with no earmarks, and Shelby is quoting 200 economists who say nay to the Dem proposal. I feel like I’m going cuckoo as I see Repubs stand up for “the people.” Their constituents are flipping out and telling them not to pass it. Reportedly 70% of the country is giving the Bush/Dem proposed bailout package a thumbs down.

Actually, I feel like I’m having the closest thing I’ve ever experienced to questioning my sexual orientation or gender identity. I never have, but I know that it’s a crisis of choices not to be taken lightly. From what I understand, although coming out is mostly liberating, decisions made in the process can be extremely gut- and life-wrenching. Everything about your placement in the world turns up-side-down, and makes you doubt many assumptions that society and you have known or thought to be true. It can be confusing, which is the situation I find myself in politically.

Once you come out, you can’t go back. I’m told that you can never see things like you did before, or perhaps even remember what it was like. You’re often cut off or divorced from the things, the life, the family, that made you feel secure and comfortable. It’s like cutting a tether. I can relate to that in regards to the Party I had self-identified with my entire life. Even before I could vote, my heart swelled for the soaring hopes for the world as envisioned by Adlai Stevenson and JFK. And now?

I’m having party identity confusion. My crisis is that I’m doubting what the Democrats are actually standing for — not in theory or ideals, but in-action. Where is My Party??? Everything I’ve thought about my Democratic heroes has been turned on its head this year — except for the Clintons, who just keep getting better and better.

I know I’m also way, way over my head on the topic of economics. I’m just attempting to round up what I’m reading, this, an updated Bloomberg report (9/25/08) about IndyMac.


In the above clip, we can see that Republicans have been warning about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for years, while Barney Frank has been poo-pooing this as scare tactics for years. Is it any surprise he was one of their main apologists this last week? Frank was reported to be one of those yelling during Bushie’s all-parties-to-the-table meetin’ on Thursday. But, all these connections have been going on for years. Larry Johnson has more video of this history in his post, Barack’s Fannie Mae Buddies.

Please read economist dakinikat’s excellent analysis, Back to the Roots of the Problem, here at The Confluence. She concurs that, although we’ve always been on the Democratic side of social programs, this collapse, due to unsound home buying and mortgage policies, falls squarely in their lap.


And here was Senator Barney Frank in a July 2008 Bloomberg TV interview as he assured us all that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are jes fine, after the failure of Indy Mac:

We got into trouble, because there was not adequate regulation of the mortgage business in particular, and a lot of mortgages that were made that shouldn’t have been made, not originated by banks but it washed over into the banking system.

The one thing that people should be confident about, is that the set of things I talked about, the FHA, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the Federal Reserve’s rules, we are not going to have any more of this. We’ve have learned now not to do this. . .

The reassurance we can give people is: As we cope with the current problem, don’t think that this is part of an endless series of events. We have learned from this terrible set of mistakes, and we know how to prevent them from recurring. . . . I think that is a confidence inspiring thing for the future.

Senator McCain and the Republicans are still rallying to prevent another blank check without accountability being foisted on US citizens. And Frank is still telling us to write the check. Me to Democratic Party leadership: Trust you? I don’t even know you anymore.

[cross-posted from Lady Boomer NYC]

336 Responses

  1. Great aticle ladyboomer. I heard Graham say that on Greta too and almost did a “spit take”. i have heard no other mention in the MSM since, although I did find an article from Roll Call while I was searching on google, but Roll Call costs 285 dollars for a subscription, so I didn’t get to read it 😦 I’ve already seen obots saying this is a flat out lie, which means it must be true..lol I wish we could find something concrete…I guess we willl when they actually get a deal. OH, and a little bird told me to tell you Happy Birthday!!!!!

  2. Now we see why they wanted to rush this through and why they were freaking out that McCain suspended his campaign.

  3. Somebody said this morning they talked to someone at a Congresscritter’s office and they were told the voter calls are 50/50 on the bailout.

    50% are against it, 50% are violently opposed to it.

  4. That’s 50% No and 50% Hell No, myiq2xu.

  5. NPR last night said 80% of phone calls to congressional offices are opposed to bailout.

  6. garychapelhill –Thanks for the good wishes! This afternoon, FOX News did a short expose on ACORN and promised more.

    myiq2xu — Yes, exactly — rushin’ us like a sorority. It’s like hurry up and wait — only more like, wait, wait, now hurry up.

    LOL! “50% are against it, 50% are violently opposed to it.”

  7. I heard on Fox News earlier today (can’t believe I”m watching Fox) that they took the Representatives Blackberries away from them. Did anyone else hear that?


  8. Is today your birthday, LBNYC? It’s my daughter’s birthday, too. Happy Birthday!

  9. Once Freddie and Fannie are propped up, why can’t they just restructure the mortgages? They can just switch lenders and the banks won’t have their bad mortgages based on lower paper value of the properties any more.

  10. Happy Birthday Lady Boomer.
    I’m so grateful for this site for the article here, but I’m also so disturbed that the msm is asleep at the wheel.

  11. Whew! I thought I was the only one having problems with this bailout and thinking the Republicans were right to try and protect us. I thought I must just be that stupid about economics or I was just goin’ nuts.

  12. Congresspersons saying 95% opposed-wouldn’t be unheard of for them to pad the numbers a bit, though.

  13. Mountain Sage — Jake Tapper has the story — the confiscation of blackberries is to prevent leaks about the bailout bill negotiations.

  14. Why are the Dems so hot to do the bailout? It’s Bush’s guys idea-shouldn’t that tell them to NOT do it? You know like the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq debacle.

  15. Scary Smart Anglachel is rocking today with three new posts up:


  16. BTW – two of those posts concern the bailout

  17. LBNYC, I feel the same way. My ideals have not changed, and I know that the Repubs have more than their share of nastiness. But I cannot un-open my eyes as to what my own party is doing and has been doing.

    Mountain Sage, that is suspicious if true. They want this done in secret.

    BTW, I believe it was WigWag earlier who was insisting that he/she “knows” what is in this bill, and it’s a good thing.

    That is patently false. NONE of us knows what is in this bill, because the congress critters are not putting it out there. Until they post the thing for public scrutiny, NONE of us have any idea what’s in it, or what its provisions are.

    On a sad but lighter note, Uppity Woman has a great pic of a new poster for Obama and his Missouri “truth squads”. Chilling, but funny:

  18. Joan, thank you! Happy b’day to your daughter, too! Almost mine — tomorrow, Sunday.

  19. Oh, here’s a tidbit for you guys-Repub Congressman on c-span this morning is angry that Barney Frank stuck the ACORN money in there. He says Frank tacks ACORN onto every spending bill they consider. He says he has had it with that crap. ACORN got money in the mortgage bill they passed during the Summer. I assume if wer were to look we would be able to verify what he says. Why do they always get money? Seems fishy to me.

  20. “It’s Bush’s guys idea-shouldn’t that tell them to NOT do it?”

    Ha! Obama is thinking of keeping Paulson. add in the $150 Billion bailout of ACORN that is being pushed, etc. ACORN and Obama are “acquainted.” Everything is SOOO cozy! A quick search turned this up and there is plenty more of course! Enjoy!


  21. Sorry to take a contrary view, but the problems at Fannie and Freddie were not the most important reason for the current crisis. They were a symptom, just like the AIG collapse was, just like the Lehman collapse was and just like the Bear Sterns collapse was.

    All Democrats including Hillary Clinton were big fans of Fannie and Freddie because they wanted poor people to be able to afford homes. Hillary, Barney and the rest of the Democrats were wrong. But that’s simply not the biggest part of the crisis.

    The crisis at its root was caused by Alan Greenspan and his policy of keeping interest rates too low at the behest of both Democrats and Republicans. My suggestion is that you look at the You Tube video where Alan Greenspan denies there is a housing bubble and uses that as an excuse to keep expanding the money supply. After the collapse of the dot com bubble, with the money supply increasing at record levels, housing is where that money flowed.

    Other causes of the crisis include (1) the repeal of Glass Stiegel (passed by a veto proof majority by a Republican Congress) and reluctantly signed by Bill Clinton, (2)A Bush enfored mark to market requirement that required investment firms to value securities on their balance sheets that were not easy to value because there are no liquid markets. (3) A failure on the part of the SEC (republican controlled) to prevent illegal naked short selling that artificially depressed the stock of banks, insurance companies and hedge funds (4) Failure of the SEC under Republican chairman Chris Cox to control leverage undertaken by investment banks that eventually reached 30 to 1.

    If you blame Barney Frank, you have to blame Hillary Clinton, She supported the same policies he did.

    The truth is it’s neither of their faults and it’s both of their faults,

    And it’s our fault too. It’s the American public who has been electing Republicans to Congress and the Presidency for years. It’s the deregulatory bent of these Republicans that caused this problem.

    I think Lady Boomer is great. But on this one, I think she gets it fundamentally wrong.

  22. I don’t know my ass from my elbow when it comes to big financial stuff, so I rely on experts who I’ve learned to trust.

    Krugman seems to be trustworthy, and he’s opposed to both bailout plans.

    I don’t trust either party, or anybody who a) helped make this mess b) has his/her hand in the cookie jar

  23. So much for transparency of government. If they are blocking leaks, then the entire process is being done in secret, with no public input. Facism.

  24. Another GREAT Entry “L-Boomer”!
    OMG I was just watching Hannity & Colmes Carl Rove was going over the World Leaders Obama said in the democratic debates he’d “MEET WITH WITH-OUT PRECONDITIONS, in his 1st year in office”. That’s NOT the interesting part.
    Harold Wolfson was there too (for Obama HA!) & when Rove got “tripped up” on the list, Wolfson HELPED him finish up!!
    Thank G_ _ for DVR!

  25. it IS making me a little bit dizzy…

    hey, I got an idea! Let’s find out what Hillary wants to do and do that…

    otherwise, I don’t think anyone knows what they are doing…

  26. Great post lady boomer!

    As if things weren’t bad enough in 2004. That year, I watched as conservative family members and myself parted ways. I could not believe it was actually happening and thought that it must be the ugliness of the Bushites transferring/morphing onto loved ones. I was able to make sense of it at the time, though. It was sad, but I also knew it was surmountable.

    This year, jeez, I am dumbfounded. I’m losing friends over my stubbornness to not “just come around.” They are seeing me as “someone else,” someone they do not recognize. Frankly, I’m seeing me as someone I don’t recognize.

    I find myself agreeing with Republicans these days. I can’t believe I am siding with them regarding this bailout, and I don’t understand my old blue party connecting with Bush on this. It’s all so topsy turvy for me.

    I feel untethered. It’s weird, and I long for this ride to stop.

    Thanks for a great post.

  27. Joan — you know I wonder that too. I am also extremely p!ssed off that I have so little faith in the Bush WH & the Dem. party that I question whether the bailout is even needed. On the one hand, if Wall Street goes down that will not be good for anyone and something must be done to prevent that. On the other hand, the earmarks that the Dems have put into the bill (especially to places like ACORN) really makes me wonder if they are telling the truth about Wall Street. However, from my practice I can tell you that there are real problems with FannieMae & FreddyMac, so I’m totally confused about what I should want right now. Yes to a bailout without earmarks, no golden parachutes and with provisions to allow bankruptcy judges to do cram downs on mortgages — that is the best I can come up with right now (and the first two positions are in line with the GOP’s positions on the bailout — I’m having a party identity crisis now — am I a Republican?)

  28. I read that the money flow has lessened since this bailout idea was floated because they are waiting to see what goodies they get out of it. So the scare tactics of those who want this deal are overblown. If it doesn’t go through, there will be some improvement any way. Though still a mess to deal with but maybe in a less drastic way. There are alternatives to Paulson’s fiat-the Dems should start from scratch on a new plan.

  29. WMCB — that is a funny poster. In last night’s debate, didn’t McCain mock Obama’s hubris by saying he didn’t have an emblem?

    I hate to cite FOX again, but OMG it’s just about the only news I listen to … Hannity and Colmes were discussing and playing debate clips, and they just played Obama’s bracelet clip. I must have dozed off for about 10-15 minutes last night and missed it, but heard of it. Without even hearing the stumble over the dead soldier’s name, which I’d read about, this is priceless.

    And they say there were no memorable quotes! Here’s one: “I’ve got a bracelet, too!” Reminds me of kindergarten: “Teacher, teacher — Me, me, see mine! I have one, too. Mine’s better. See?”

  30. I think it’s hilarious that the Dems are trying to blame McCain for killing the deal that 90%+ of the voters hate.

    Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is the Democrats specialty

  31. “Mountain Sage — Jake Tapper has the story — the confiscation of blackberries is to prevent leaks about the bailout bill negotiations.”

    Who’s enforcing that? If someone tried to take away my Blackberry (not that I have one, but whatever), I’d hit them over the head with it. They’re government officials, not school kids.

  32. Whatever the lapses from the Democrats, who’ve had the House and the Senate (not so much) since 2006, they should not be finger pointed as being responsible for the financial crisis.

    From 2002 to Jan 2007, the Republicans owned the senate with 55 senators and the House with 229 house seats and the WH. During that period the Republicans passed at will any bill they wanted and was signed by the WH. To absolve the Republicans because Franks was against legislation is not credible.

    I blame the Democrats for doing nothing since Jan 2007 because everyone knew that it was a matter of time when the house of cards would come down. But under no condition can the Republicans point the finger at the Democrats.

  33. angienc-I don’t know which end is up anymore. I am pretty shocked to be on the Repubs side on anything! I’m no expert either on this stuff but all you can do is read what experts say and try to understand. When all else fails, go with your gut.

    Where is Hillary? Anyone know? We do need her.

  34. Thank you for posting this, Lady Boomer NYC.

    Those videos tell the tale of the coverup that has taken place. Sad.

    Question: Why on earth are those clowns in charge of coming up with the plan to solve a problem that they themselves helped to create? Ridiculous.

    Washington needs a good barn cleaning and in a hurry!

    I pray we get McCain-Palin in there now and by all means, get Hillary in there in 2012!~

  35. angienc, on September 27th, 2008 at 10:35 pm Said:

    Happy Birthday Lady Boomer.
    I’m so grateful for this site for the article here, but I’m also so disturbed that the msm is asleep at the wheel.
    angienc, I do not think the MSM is asleep at the wheel. I think the folk of the MSM are wide awake behind the wheel, steering things just where they want them to be. Some are directors, some mere actors, but they all know what they are doing.

  36. Why am I rooting for John Boehner to protect the little people? Obama couldn’t wait to sign his name to the 700B bailout.

    Mr. Change reveals his slavish, establishment-protecting core – but we knew that. After all, the mainstream media is hellbent on installing him. That’s because he won’t change anything.

    Is Ron Paul still available?

  37. myiq — I quickly read over the Anglachel posts you linked to, but she seems to fault only Bush and Paulson. I’m not letting Bush off the hook for any of his excesses nor cronies. However, the video reports in my post show the Dems, especially Barney Frank promoting these sorts of practices during his administration, and Bush trying to curtail it.

  38. If the Republicans walk out on this sham of a deal, what will Harry Reid, et al., do then?

    More and more Americans are learnnig about this bogus deal with all the goodies going to some very shady organizations and they are saying, “Hell NO! Don’t do this bailout plan!”

    No news yet on a deal being final. I think right now, no news is good news. The Republicans are not backing down and the Democrats do not want to pass somethjing without any political cover from the Republicans. What we have is an ol-fashioned Potomac standoff. Who will blink first? My guess is: Harry Reid.

  39. myiq2xu-Hilarious… and pathetic. How can they be so dumb?

  40. Ray Miller’s dead.

  41. It has been interesting to see this situation evolve. Like an earlier poster mentioned, if John M. hadn’t been aware that the repubs in the house were being excluded and didn’t agree with this bill, we might not have known what was going on at all. My sense is that the dems, and admin are in agreement that they have to get this thing covered up pretty quick before folks find out all the details that we are all learning day by day. They tried to create the myth that there was a deal imminent when it turned out that house repubs didn’t even know what the bill they were being asked to sign even said!!! When McCain was inconsiderate enough to involve himself with the situation, it was pretty nasty I think everyone would agree. Now we are learnin more and more about what is included, and one hopes, that we will be able to see what is in it before the president signs it. I hope McCain raises a stink if it is “festooned with ornaments”. I share others feelings of being in an alternate universe. Even when I watch the media reaction to something I JUST WITNESSED WITH MY OWN EYES I am speechless. A person would need to be watching this stuff 24 hours a day to catch some of it, and I don’t see how we could ever catch all of it if there weren’t a lot of good people working on it on their own. Imagine mostly regular folks who are lucky to catch the 6:00 news and that’s it? That is why these guys can look us straight in the eye and LIE, cause they know that the vast majority of people will not catch it. The intentional projection thing is something I caught Bush doing during the last election, and I began to realize that whatever they said the other guy was doing was really what they were doing. I also have noticed that they also appropriate things from the other side and if they say it long enough, pretty soon people think this guy is really the one that sounded the alarm two years ago and that McCain is just lying. I have already read comments to that effect earlier today somewhere. Now they either are seeding all the media with propagandists or they are really persuading people who are then just passing it on to others who want to believe. It’s the damnedt thing I have ever witnessed. Has it always been this way or have the scales just fallen from my eyes? I know what I am seeing now, but I begin to wonder if I have been totally misled in the past. This police state stuff is probably happening in every single state. Why would they just pick MO? Also that report about the NRA complaining that media outlets are being threatened if they run their ads on Obama’s gun positions? Election day is shaping up to be a little bit scary. These truth squads are going to make sure people realize that Obama is a Christian and that he will cut taxes for anyone making under $250K????? That’s part of their duty to protect the truth? We live in very perilous times and I wonder how long we will have the luxury of expressing ourselves in this environment? I was going to joke about taking off my tin foil hat, but I couldn’t quite work up a smile about this mess.

  42. Athena-I know, right? Boehner looking out for us? Unbelievable.

  43. It’s weird as hell that the entire time Pelosi and Co. have been in control of Congress, I’ve been rooting for them to DO SOMETHING! ANYTHING! All they could come up with was countering Hillary Clinton’s Presidential run. And now that they’re trying to do something, finally, I’m totally opposed to it.

    I’m curious, because I don’t go to the Dark Side and haven’t heard much filtering over into the MSM from them, are the Kossaks, and similar blogs supporting the Dems in this bailout, or are they being strangely silent?

  44. LBNYC–Jumping in here a bit, but had to commiserate about the “gender identity” crisis. I, too, found myself feeling the same way. I had so easily never questioned that being a Democrat was all about hating how the Repugs were “screwing us all over” and stealing all our money, Seems I was wrong. Now I feel like Dana McGreevey. My husband was WHAT?? Double-dipping?? Result–registered Independent for the first time in 26 years. It was like a divorce, it was that painful for me. I can see clearly now, NOBODY’S hand have been cleaned. I was used. I’ll never swallow the partisan load again. As an Indie, I’m free to love Hillary as the anecdote to my ugly break-up with the DNC. She got screwed by the same monster.

  45. Please just call me angie — angienc is my new user name since I got an account with webpress yesterday, but angie is my name (old user name here and IRL).

  46. Lady Boomer:

    I like to see several well-informed, thoughtful but differing views on a topic before I make up my mind.

    Anglachel is always well-informed and thoughtful, but I don’t always agree with her either.

  47. My eye-opening experience didn’t convince me that the GOP was good and the Democrats bad, it convinced me that neither party can be trusted.

  48. I am proud of John McCain and all others who are against this bail out plan.
    Why in the hell should anyone profit from this in any way? The American people don’t owe ACORN a damn thing, shouldn’t it be our choice if we want to support a corrupt entity like ACORN?
    Why should anyone profit from this deal? I don’t understand that.
    Obama is getting scarier by the day with his tactics to take away our freedom of speech. Anyone caught in this Minnesota town speaking or videos, etc. that is perceived to be lies by Obama, will be jailed. Does anyone else find this extremely frightening?
    I believe I read this on the confluence or another blog this morning.
    Its getting more and more frightening by the minute for our country and its citizens, I hope to God Almighty that he saves us from the likes of Obama.

  49. Caryolyn — you are right about everything you say, but it has been this way for a while now with the msm — remember, the msm was pushing W for the presidency in 2000 (and lied about Gore to do it). The fact that the msm clearly wants Obama now (heck, even FOX isn’t as hard on him as they should be) is all I need to know — no way does the msm get to tell me who to vote for. It didn’t work in 2000 or 2004 and it isn’t going to work now.

  50. “I’m curious, because I don’t go to the Dark Side and haven’t heard much filtering over into the MSM from them, are the Kossaks, and similar blogs supporting the Dems in this bailout, or are they being strangely silent?”

    At first they were 100% against the bailout and threatening to primary any Dem who voted for it. Then when it was clear that as per usual Pelosi and Reid were 100% pro capitulation to Bush, they started screaming at McCain for quashing it.

    At least you have to give them credit for adaptability.

  51. This ACORN thing just reeks. It has no place in an emergency bail-out bill, even if the bill were a good idea.

  52. If this bailout does not go through, there is a reasonably high probability that 20-30 percent of the readers of this blog will lose their jobs. Liquidity crises lead to bank failures; bank failures lead to depressions.

    Ever lived through a bank run? Ever lived through a depression. Ever seen what it is like to lose your home and have to live in a tent city? Ever have to compete with one million other people for a job as a grocery bagger?

    This has happened before in the United States, It could happen again. If liquidity isn’t pumped into the system through a bail out in the next week or so, the financial system could seize up, That means any money you have in your checking account, savings account or CD will be frozen and unavailable to you.

    Trust me, I know. It isn’t pretty. If it happens the moronic earmarks in this bill will be the last thing you are worrying about.

  53. OT – but could this be the beginning of the Baracktober surprise?

    September 27, 2008

    Possible change of heart
    Rezko talked with prosecutors, may aid probe, sources say


    “Rezko’s possible change of heart—after years of steadfast refusal—has sent ripples through a tight circle of prominent defense attorneys who represent dozens of potential witnesses and targets in the wide-ranging probe.”

    Wonder waht Obama thinks about this? 😉

  54. Zombie want Change, CHAAAANGE!!!!!!!

    –I’m Barack Obama and I approve this message.

  55. Irlandese, on September 27th, 2008 at 11:14 pm Said:

    “Now I feel like Dana McGreevey. My husband was WHAT?? Double-dipping??”

    Interesting analogy!

    To Carolyn, too: This seems to be the year that many “liberals” who’d previously hated the right had their eyes opened. I’m not saying conservatives are necessarily the good guys, but right now they don’t appear as monsters — which is what they’d always seemed. Instead, that’s what WE are being called by the progressive, moveon, obamabot wing of our Party. Sigh.

  56. Seriously:

    Memeorandum will give you an idea what the so-called lefty blogs are saying without having to contaminate yourself.

  57. Thanks myiq. I should have given up a long time ago, but it’s like a perverse fascination that my blood pressure resents me for.

  58. From UrgetoCompete: I do not think the MSM is asleep at the wheel. I think the folk of the MSM are wide awake behind the wheel, steering things just where they want them to be. . . .

    Oooh – I agree 100%! “Media coverage is the very lifeblood of politics because it shapes the perceptions that form the reality on which political action is based. Media do more than depict the political environment; they are the political environment.” -Doris Graber (From Mass Media and American Politics, 2001) This is taught at Texas U.

    This blog and others need to reach the masses. The media is the crux of all that is going on politically (or anything else for that matter).

    I, too, after 40 years of being a dedicated Democrat, cannot find my “place” anymore within the political system. How could this have happened? Then, I realize that it was an orchestrated event – carefully worked and carefully marketed to the masses.

  59. Wigwag:

    I’ll concede this is a real crisis (Krugman says it is) but that doesn’t mean the bailout plan they tried to rush through is the solution.

    In fact, most experts say it isn’t.

  60. WigWag,

    You keep repeating the same message over and over. What is your goal? No one here has any control over what happens to the bailout bill.

    My parents lived through the Great Depression and a lot of hard times. They are not buying the arguments of the Bush Administration right now. They lived through it, and I’ve heard about it all my life.

    Did you live through it? If so, please explain why what is happening now is the same thing and how spending a trillion dollars of our money to bail out a lot of rich people is going to help. Be specific. Your “scary” warnings are getting really repetitive.

  61. Glad we could amuse you, Juan. It’s what we live for.

  62. I see the Fannie Mae/ACORN story has now hit this blog. I’ve been following the story all around teh left and right blogoshphere. At one point I started wondering how the Dems kept getting money for ACORN and were able to stop the Republicans from trying to regulate Fannie Mae even while they were in the minority. Obviously there had to be some Republicans colluding.

    Here’s a great article on that… apparently it’s the “country club Republicans”… ya know… the corporate and Wall Street types that aided and abetted the Dems in this. These are the guys that played the fancy derivatives game on top of those Fannie Mae and Freddie subprime mortagages.

    The Fannie Mae Gang http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB121677050160675397.html

    Why do you think the country club Repuplicans are the ones most crossing over to support Obama? Greed is very bipartisan.

  63. myiq2xu…. ROFLMAO… 50/50

    that was a good one…just about lost my coffee when I read that!

  64. The media is made of of graduates from top universities, they have more access to information than most of us and they get paid to gather and report the news.

    How can they be more ignorant than the rest of us?

    Answer: They aren’t, they just pretend to be.

  65. For me, I can just say this election season simply made me grow up. Attaining wisdom is seldom a painless process. I’ve left the safe haven of tunnel vision to finally realize, I alone must do the work of concluding what is “the truth” and what is simply convenient. Listening to my 44-year-old gut instinct tell me that what looks and smells fishy usually is. And then doing the work of looking for answers and finding out WHY.

  66. Jumping over to SNL for a bit to see what politics they’ll scramble tonight. Omelets anyone?

  67. Linda:

    UR in Okie City?

    I has family there and in Norman

  68. It must be difficult for people who have been loyal to a party to have this identity crisis, but truth provides the ultimate catharsis.

    The truth is that the party is all about POWER. That explains the party’s behavior this year– everything from caucus fraud to the unscrupulous treatment of Palin to the reversal on offshore drilling.

  69. For me it started in Jan 2007 when the Dems got the Congress back but did nothing to stop Bush.

    That’s when it finally sunk in – THEY DON’T WANT TO STOP BUSH

  70. WigWag — I don’t doubt what you are saying about what will happen if the banks fail — that is why I am torn about this. I realize that if Wall Street fails it will be horrible for all of us. What I doubt is that a bailout is really needed — and that is because I do not trust W or Pelosi or BO. Why did WaMu go under on a Thursday? Usually banks are restructured on a Friday — that was the first thing my boss (a trustee in the bankruptcy courts for 20 years with a B.S. in Economics from a top-tier school) said Friday morning and it struck me that maybe it was done early to cause more panic so that the Bush/Dem bailout (and lets face it, that is what it is) could be pushed through without scrutiny and without proof of its need.

  71. WigWag, on September 27th, 2008 at 11:21 pm Said:
    If this bailout does not go through, there is a reasonably high probability that 20-30 percent of the readers of this blog will lose their jobs. Liquidity crises lead to bank failures; bank failures lead to depressions.

    I doubt, WigWag, that you have any idea what everyone in this site does for a living; so, your statement above is without any basis at all. Besides, it doesn’t seem like you took into consideration all the facts that have been brought up in the other posts or have been published.

    50% of the people who called in are opposed and 50% are absolutely opposed. ACORN may have given Obama his start in politics. The ironic justice of it is: they will also be the one to end it.

  72. Wig Wag: The FDIC started BECAUSE of the bank run in 1929 because of the Wall Street Crises. So, thinking this could happen like that exactly again is questionable. Any thoughts?

  73. Ooooooh! Ironman, that is very interesting. This on top of the investigation of the park that never got built with funds Obama allocated for it.

    Patrick Fitzgerald, please hurry up. You won’t be U.S. Attorney much longer.

  74. Charles, WigWag is correct that a solution needs to happen. Of course there has to be some bailout of some sort. But I find the costant pushing of THIS bailot to be suspicious.

    I completely refuse the idea that we must all get behind Paulson’s plan, no alternatives, no questions, no transparent revisions, no informing the public of exactly what is being voted on, just DO IT HURRY HURRY HURRY OR ZOMG WE ARE DOOMED!!!!

    We are being fear-bullied. The fact that there is a genuine risk and danger does not change the fact that many in power are trying to use that real danger to steamroll the public and do god-knows-what in closed-door deals.

    I for one am not standing for it.

  75. SNL: Mocking Palin’s interview skills.

  76. Lady Boomer, very good post. Hope everyone takes time to read the Bloomberg article you linked. Chilling. We ain’t seen nothin’ yet. 😦

    Absolutely, the Democrats’ culpability is obvious (now); but I do agree with Dhyana that we can’t let the Republicans off the hook for their 12 years of deregulatory frenzy while they controlled the Congress just because they wanted to regulate FNM & FRE a couple of years back or because they’re saying what we want to hear now. Nor should Bush get a free pass on this. HIS misadministration, HIS Treasury Secretaries, HIS SEC Chairmen, HIS Fed appointments and so on. They are supposed to be the experts, but they played politics with America’s future.

    All of them will go down in the annals of infamy.

    My dog, when I imagine the train wreck coming, and then think of the inexperienced candidate our party has forced upon us (who is also in Wall Street’s pocket), I despair.

  77. I’m starting to think that WigWag is personally involved in this Wall Street situation somehow. And to think that I defended him/her the other day when he/she was freaking out on people for voting for McCain.

  78. LBNYC, great post and your attention to Rep. Frank is well-placed. I saw a breakdown earlier in the week that 30+% of his TOTAL campaign contributions came from the financial services industries. In other words, almost a third of all his contributions in all his campaigns came from the industry he is honchoing a $700B payback day. That is nine kinds of wrong. From memory, Sen. Dodd had similar numbers, I will try and find the chart and link it up.

  79. Lady Boomer,

    You know what I just realized? If Hillary hadn’t been so badly treated on KOS, and Obama hadn’t been so condescending, I would probably never realized what was happening as I would still be getting my news from MSNBC and my opinion from Dkos…crazy huh? My sis has always been repub, but I could never relate to her so we just avoided politics altogether, but my parents were dem so I had them to commiserate with. Now my sis and I totally understand each other and my parents are in Obamazone and I fear they are hypnotized. I think I am the only one who has changed, but it is really creepy.

  80. Wow! The postings in the last 24 hours are mind blowing!
    myiq, RD, gary, Lady Boomer, Dakinikat, madamab, it will take me hours just to get through them.

    Great work, you guys. I feel so much more educated from the posts and the posters comments. Being gone for most of the day, I feel left out!

  81. WigWag,

    Charles used to work for Goldman Sachs (I think). He probably doesn’t need to be schooled by you. Which investment back do/did you work in?

  82. WW:

    I never said I was against a bailout, I am against the bailout plans that have been proposed.

    The Big Dawg was on TDS the other day and he said how it should be done.

    When I see Krugman, Hillary and Bill agreeing, I’ll sign off on a plan too.

  83. Did you know that our opposing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac bailouts make us ra*cists? Because most of those housing loans were written for low income families, most of them black, we are now being accused of being bigots. Just knew it would come down to this.

  84. Sheri, in the case of a bank run fueled by a liquidity crisis the FDIC insurance is uesless.

    The FDIC currently has $50 billion in assets, That $50 billion insures trillions of dollars in deposits, If a serious bank run occurred that $50 billion would be wiped out in less than a week. To bolster the FDIC the government would have only one choice, print massive amounts of money. Ever hear of Weimer Germany or Zimbabwe? Money becomes valueles, You would need wheelbarrows full to pay your rent.

    Trust me, you don’t want to take the slightest chance that a massive bank run will occur. If it does, the FDIC means nothing.

    By the way remember, the AIG bailout by the Treasury cost $87 billlion. Thats $37 billion more than the FDIC even has on its books.

    If a bank run occurs, you could easily lose everything you have in the bank. Any stocks or bonds you have may also plunge in value.

    There is a reason Paulson and the rest of Wall Street is freaking out. They understand the magnitude of the crisis. Main Street doesn’t.

  85. myiq2xu,

    Same here. I’m not against a bailout per se. I just don’t want Secretary Paulson to become our dictator. I’ve also been reading Krugman. I think I’ll go with his expertise over WigWag’s. Call me crazy.

  86. If I sat down with Paulson and Bernanke they could BS me into believing them because I don’t know shit about the topic.

    I won’t pretend I do, nor can I learn enough in the short time available.

    So I place my trust in people who have earned it and who know what the hell is going on.

  87. I’m hurt. Wigwag is completely ignoring my questions and comments. I wonder why?

  88. BB:

    Even in my ignorance I saw huge flashing warning lights with Paulson’s plan.

    Anytime there is no oversight or accountability, it’s gonna go bad.

  89. Once again, WMCB says exactly what I have been trying to say (only she says it better & more clearly):
    WMCB, on September 27th, 2008 at 11:35 pm Said:

    Charles, WigWag is correct that a solution needs to happen. Of course there has to be some bailout of some sort. But I find the costant pushing of THIS bailot to be suspicious.

    I completely refuse the idea that we must all get behind Paulson’s plan, no alternatives, no questions, no transparent revisions, no informing the public of exactly what is being voted on, just DO IT HURRY HURRY HURRY OR ZOMG WE ARE DOOMED!!!!

    We are being fear-bullied. The fact that there is a genuine risk and danger does not change the fact that many in power are trying to use that real danger to steamroll the public and do god-knows-what in closed-door deals.

    I for one am not standing for it.

  90. WigWag, please stop speaking as if everyone who does not fall in line with THIS PARTICULAR solution is an idiot who does not understand the danger. It is getting truly annoying.

  91. The question remains: just which side and which person can one trust? Nothing I have seen, and few that I have heard, lead me placing confidence in either bailout. The same people who spiked this along are now the same people expected to correct it. At the same time they are grabbing mic time and pointing at one another for its creation or obstruction.

    Welcome to the ping pong game.

  92. bostonboomer,, I’m just giving my opinion. Is that okay? Isn’t it what we are here for?

    And by the way, I’ve experienced a bank run and I’ve lived through a depression caused by a bank run. I don’t what you or Charles or anyone else to go through that.

  93. I wouldn’t trust me with unlimited power, why the hell would I trust anyone else?

  94. myiq: I’ll drink to that!

  95. I think that if there is a crisis that is THAT extreme we are all fucked. However, our experience with the lies that got us into iraq will forever make most us skeptical when the politicians say the sky is falling. I never believed it about Iraq, and I’m HIGHLY skeptical about it now. If it is that Bad, then all of this needs to be done with the highest level of transparency possible, which is not happening. Otherwise all i see is political posturing and people using this as a smokescreen. Isn’t it convenient that we always have a “crisis” like this every 4 years like clockwork…If it IS real, well then it is like the boy crying wolf…now that its real a lot of us just aren’t buying it.

  96. With millions of Americans worried about a run on the banks, what kind of people would throw in an earmark for ACORN?

    Is it a crisis that ACORN may run out of funding for voter fraud?

  97. There will be no bank runs or financial collapse as long as the government is working on a solution.

    In 1929 there was no FDIC and the government policy was to do nothing about the economy

  98. myiq with unlimited power? I’ll have to sleep with the light on tonight 🙂

  99. “I completely refuse the idea that we must all get behind Paulson’s plan, no alternatives, no questions, no transparent revisions, no informing the public of exactly what is being voted on, just DO IT HURRY HURRY HURRY OR ZOMG WE ARE DOOMED!!!!”

    Two words, Patriot Act.

  100. Sad to say, it’s Saturday evening and the only person who has rational and feasible solutions is left in the ‘waiting room’ beyond the walls of the ‘he’man’ and other wimmens haters club members.

  101. PJ:

    Thank you, I think.

    Did I just get pwned?

  102. lmao SNL actually cutting on obama a little and his chicago ties

  103. From what I understand this is Senator Clintons idea, borrowed from history. I think and it seems very clear that if this bill does not go through there will be a run for the banks, on an international scale. What the real ecconomic consequences would be, no one knows for sure, but if history can be depended on, it would be severe. I think Buffet said that the American government is the only entity that could deal with something of this enormity.
    I am happy everybody has their sleeves rolled up and knows Americans are watching, so we can at least expect the best they can deliver.
    Today another big money bill on Defence spending passed. I’m no expert but a 25 billion loan for fuel efficient car production in the US sounds like an excellent idea. Drilling restrictions were also eased on, which I know Dems are not into, but, which I feel in some way releases pressure on our energy interests.
    Of course the dems stuck some little vulnerable guy stuff in, but then that’s why we are democrats and why we always will be.

    Happy Birthday Lady Boomer, wishing you lots of love, health, love and success in the coming year.

  104. Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely – Lord Acton

  105. Last week McCain said that the economy was “sound” and his advisers were suggesting we were just a bunch of whiners. Meanwhile, Obama is up to his hips with advisers who took millions out of Fannie and Freddie during their tenure. Bush of course was asleep at the wheel and cannot be counted on for anything near clarity.

    Everyone is posturing and playing to the public and there are few voices out there, maybe with the exception of Krugman, whose words or advice are embraced. The treasury is beginning to look like Mother Hubbard’s cupboard and this situation is totally out of hand.

    The most any of us can do is find a blankie and a binkie and go sit in the corner for the next 4 years and “hope” for some much needed “change”.

  106. now they’re cutting on obama playing the race card lol!

  107. WMCB,, I am not sure what you mean. I am being polite. I’m not insulting anyone. I’m saying what I think. I’ve never worked for Goldman Sachs, but I have first hand experience with what we might go through. No one who does, would take this situation lightly.

    We are no longer talking about the original Paulson bill. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd have added oversight. They have added an equity interest for taxpayers and they have added limitations on CEO salaries. Those things are all good.

    My suggestion is that if you oppose the bail out you should go to the bank Monday morning and take all of your money out. Either put it in your mattress or use it to buy gold coins.

    If bank failures do start to occur, it will be the only thing that protects you.

  108. Wigwag,

    In the first place, I am already dirt poor and I don’t own any property. I’ve lived through hard times before and I’ll get through whatever happens next.

    Yes, you are expressing your opinion, but it’s getting old. You keep repeating the same scare warnings over and over. Frankly, it’s getting boring.

    If you think the Paulson plan is our only hope, please explain why, in detail with evidence to back up your arguments. First, explain why Paulson should be trusted with 750 billion dollars and no legislative or judicial oversight.

    I look forward to your response.

  109. Just jumping in late, and this is OT, but has this been discussed today?

    I am horrified by this. Obama is using public officials–sheriffs, prosecutors, et. al. to serve as part of a “Truth Squad” to respond to what the campaign views as dishonest ads? WTF?! Remember when he sent his “troops” to surround a radio station because they dared to discuss the unauthorized biography? I need to repeat it again: TRUTH SQUADS?!
    At least the governor seems to have a sense of outrage:

    This is one brutal press release for one brutal, deserving Chicago-Thug candidate. Bravo, Governor Blunt. You just said what we all think:

    Gov. Blunt Statement on Obama Campaign’s Abusive Use of Missouri Law Enforcement

    JEFFERSON CITY – Gov. Matt Blunt today issued the following statement on news reports that have exposed plans by U.S. Senator Barack Obama to use Missouri law enforcement to threaten and intimidate his critics.

    “St. Louis County Circuit Attorney Bob McCulloch, St. Louis City Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce, Jefferson County Sheriff Glenn Boyer, and Obama and the leader of his Missouri campaign Senator Claire McCaskill have attached the stench of police state tactics to the Obama-Biden campaign.

    “What Senator Obama and his helpers are doing is scandalous beyond words, the party that claims to be the party of Thomas Jefferson is abusing the justice system and offices of public trust to silence political criticism with threats of prosecution and criminal punishment.

    “This abuse of the law for intimidation insults the most sacred principles and ideals of Jefferson. I can think of nothing more offensive to Jefferson’s thinking than using the power of the state to deprive Americans of their civil rights. The only conceivable purpose of Messrs. McCulloch, Obama and the others is to frighten people away from expressing themselves, to chill free and open debate, to suppress support and donations to conservative organizations targeted by this anti-civil rights, to strangle criticism of Mr. Obama, to suppress ads about his support of higher taxes, and to choke out criticism on television, radio, the Internet, blogs, e-mail and daily conversation about the election.

    “Barack Obama needs to grow up. Leftist blogs and others in the press constantly say false things about me and my family. Usually, we ignore false and scurrilous accusations because the purveyors have no credibility. When necessary, we refute them. Enlisting Missouri law enforcement to intimidate people and kill free debate is reminiscent of the Sedition Acts – not a free society.”

  110. I wouldn’t take it for granted that everyone understands about FDIC.

    Yesterday I bought a cup of coffee and joked about whether my ATM card would work since it’s from WaMu.

    The clerk didn’t get it right away, and I had to explain that deposits are insured up to 100k.

  111. LabyBoomer:

    Since it’s your birthday, I have a question.

    Are you old enough to drink beer?


  112. If my kids are expecting an inheritance they are in for a big shock.

    My plan is to spend all my money and then max out my credit before I croak.

    I’m already at step 1

  113. Pat Johnson — you know, I don’t hold it against McCain for what he said about the economy being “sound” because I only heard about it on the msm and I’ve got a 99.9% suspicion that it was taken out of context and not the whole story about (kind of like the “100 years in Iraq” thing). What I do know is that McCain said that Congress should put the bailout bill up on the internet so that the American people could see what is in it for themselves AND his suspension of his campaign to go to DC caused the bill to fail and, as a direct result of that failure, for us to get more facts about what was in that bill (ACORN, etc) before it was “rushed through.” Thus, even if what he said about the economy being sound is exactly as the msm reported, what he did this week re: the bailout bill more then makes up for that gaffe, imo.

  114. Personally, after watching what MyIq did this morning to Chris the troll with his unfettered power of editing, I have to say if we gave him the same power over the financial mess, we might not trust him, but it sure would be fun to watch.

  115. WigWag: I appreciate your thoughts, ideas and opinions. I am completely ignorant when it comes to economics, believe me. I am interested to know what your depression caused by a bank run that you have lived through. Do you mean the U.S. Great Depression? Or another country? I’m very interested.

    I think the problem here is that we, the people paying for this bailout, are left in the dark as to what is going on. We have been told nothing! It is all very secretive and all VERY political in my opinion.

  116. LBNYC, did you ever consider that you might secretly be a closet Republican?

    I’m just sayin…

  117. Help, Spammy the moderator decided he wanted me to visit. He’s boring.

  118. fif — yes it was discussed on madabab’s play thread. I would like to request that one of the front page bloggers creates a thread on this story though — I think it deserves more attention.

  119. myiq — Now! It’s my b’day, now! With “Boomer” in my name, I guess you might say I don’t look a day over 60, b/c it’s only one minute into it 🙂

  120. Excuse me, Conflucians for screaming:


    Can you hear me this time?

    Can you link to the supposed new version of the bill you are referring to? As far as I know the congresspeople are still meeting. If you have a copy of the bill already, please share.

  121. P.S. Sixteen at heart, and most people say I look very well preserved. Good “jeans.”

  122. thanks angienc–I’ll go catch up. I think since the Governor has come out so strongly about this it has the potential to be a really big story. It reeks of fascism.

  123. The Big Dawg proposed a loan, not a gift, and it would be repaid with interest.

    Charles or LB will correct me if I’m wrong, but the problem right now is that there are a bunch of “illiquid” assets whose value is unknown, causing a asset/credit crunch.

    Those assets are overvalued properties. Their value is not zero, but currently undetermined.

    The government would take those assets as security and guarantee funds to the banks to restore credit/liquidity.

    But when those assets are valued and sold, the government should keep the money, including any profits.

    This is my ignorant understanding of the situation

  124. Happy Birthday, Lady Boomer. I turned 60 last December. Welcome to the club.

  125. WigWag – I am no Economist but approach things logically. This is the part that infuriates me even though you called it a “sideshow”. The democrats have the vote to pass this bill if they thought it was such a great bill with some help of liberal/moderate Republicans – belive me they would have done it by now if it was such a great bill so they can take the credit for rescuing the world from a meltdown. Human behavior and logic dictates apparently this is not a great bill just in case it backfires.

    Some of the republicans are trying to make up their mind but having this stupid Acorn thing included is causing more problem than it is solving so why not take it out so the discussion can move on. Why do Barny and his ilk insist it needs to stay at the cost of having a meltdown. What is the priority here – the Economy of the World or ones favorite political group?

    I will say again I am from a former communist country where the currency was propped up – once communism collapsed the fake economy collapsed as there was nothing to back the fake currency. I know what a real meltdown is even though it probably will never compare to the Great Depression.

  126. “I’m starting to think that WigWag is personally involved in this Wall Street situation somehow. And to think that I defended him/her the other day when he/she was freaking out on people for voting for McCain.”

    No need to insult me Boston Boomer. I have some first hand experience with all of this; thats all. If you had lived through it, you might feel differently yourself.

    Ever lost all your money, Boston Boomer? Ever lived in a tent city?

    I pray that you never do.

    And as for John McCain, I have no problem if people vote for him. But if this crisis isn’t solved with a week or so; it won’t matter whether McCain or Obama is elected. Either one will be presiding over a crumbiling country.

  127. angienc, on September 27th, 2008 at 10:38 pm Said:

    Mountain Sage — Jake Tapper has the story — the confiscation of blackberries is to prevent leaks about the bailout bill negotiations.

    Which is why this should all be public, completely transparent, C-Span for all to see!

  128. What was that C&W song about older women?

  129. Hey Pat,

    Are we going to take a direct hit from Hurricane Keil? I was wondering why it has been pouring rain for 2 days straight. I just heard about the hurricane.

  130. They are discussing it right now on CNN – exactly what we are talking about.

  131. Prolix:

    I hate being in charge, because then I have to get all serious and act like a grown-up.

    I prefer being the class clown

  132. Sheri, the great dperession in the US.

  133. panic breeds panic. telling people to go to the bank and take all of their money out on monday would only make things worse, don’t you think?

  134. myiq2xu — I’m right there with you on that one — I always say that I want the last check I write before I die to bounce!

  135. WigWag, you DO NOT know what is in that bill that you speak of so authoritatively. Neither you nor I have seen that bill. All you have are the assurances of Barney Frank. The same Barney Frank who insisted that Fannie and Freddie were no danger to the system whatsoever.

    And once again, however politely you do it, you are speaking to me as if I am a moron who has no clue as to the consequences of a widespread bank failure. I am not. I am well aware of what could be at stake.

  136. My former Democratic Party has all but disappeared. It was once a beacon for the “little guy” and I was a proud member. Until now. Now I hardly recognize it for what it has become. Just another blood sucking entity of Wall Street and corporate American interests. The buying and selling of votes taken by those who have made career politics a way of life is disgusting.

    Without accountability congress has run amuk and unchecked since we keep sending the same thieves and incompetents back to Washington over and over again. They treat it like their own personal fiefdom and piggybank which slakes their taste for power. We are now faced with a candidate who has done nothing over the years but shovel back to his mentors millions of dollars in public funding and we are asked to place him in charge? Come on!

    And with all due respect, would we even be considering John McCain under any circumstances if it were not for Barack Obama heading our ticket? Not at all. Yet here we are and I feel I am being asked to consider cyanide over arsenic as a matter of choice. Either one is sure suicide.

  137. Hey Everyone, check this out, Obama is trying to suppress freedom of speech. Please send to as many as you can.

  138. Angie:

    There is about a 2-week turnaround on bad checks.

    Think big, and make your last two weeks the best of your life.

  139. bb: They say it is heading up to Nova Scotia and the high winds will be felt most likely in Nantucket and the outer islands. It is drizzling here and should remain like this again tomorrow.

  140. “Can you link to the supposed new version of the bill you are referring to? As far as I know the congresspeople are still meeting. If you have a copy of the bill already, please share.”

    Boston Boomer, go to the front page of the NY Times. The parameters of a bill but not the final legislative language are described there. I would provide a linkl but I don’t know how. But it is an article by By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and CARL HULSE. The title of the article is “Congress Nears a Bailout Deal in Intense Push “

  141. Last I heard, the 1-page bailout has grown to three pages.

  142. MyIq, whatever hat you were wearing this morning was top ten hilarious.

  143. Boston Boomer,

    I think if anyone loses in the long run it will be the rich guys, they pay most of the taxes anyway.
    I hope I’m not sounding blaze, I really believe they will bear the heaviest burden. They also benefited from the high earnings that were the fruit leading up to this fiasco.

    I also hope some serious lessons will be learnt. When concerns are raised they should be taken seriously. I also think Democrats cannot focus so much on their interests that they lose focus of their responsibilities to the public at large.

  144. Pat,

    I love you.

    “The most any of us can do is find a blankie and a binkie and go sit in the corner for the next 4 years and “hope” for some much needed “change”.”

  145. miq2xu–no reason you can’t wear 2 hats at once. You did double-duty with mr. tr*ll last nite, dispatched him handily, and had me in stitches the whole time!!!

  146. Carolyn,…my tinfoil hat remains firmly planted on my noggin.

  147. petal,

    You are living in a dream world. The rich guys are going to get government welfare, and the rest of us are going to pay for it. That is guarateed.

  148. Lady Boomer: Happy Birthday! I am looking forward to celebrating my own 39th once again next year!!!

  149. Our visitor this morning claimed he was voting for Stephen Colbert/Paris Hilton, but wondered why we weren’t supporting Uh-bama

  150. My apologies for posting such a long post here, but I think it is worth the read re: the story breaking in Missouri of Obama and his campaign thugs threatening citizen’s civil rights:

    From a former prosecutor posting on NQ site:

    As a former chief deputy state (and federal) prosecutor (and a graduate of the Career Prosecutor Course of the National District Attorney’s Association — mentioned only to point out that I wasn’t just passing through like many young attorneys — I took it very seriously), I can offer a few insights.

    Disagree if you like because, with respect to civil service regulations in particular, individual state provisions can certainly vary widely. But, on the rest. It’s a slam dunk.

    These two appear to be prosecutors, from the titles under their names on the screen, but they are not in any other sense of the term. Not only should they be ridiculed, they should be censured if not fired (and would be if they worked for me) and, if it were up to me (I’m not a citizen of Missouri or a client of either of these nuts), I would refer them to the Missouri State Bar for disciplinary action.

    They are an embarrassment to the profession.

    But, to the specific questions asked above (and please, someone chime in if you have something recent and relevant).

    #1. Violation of Civil Rights by State Action. Of course, this silliness is a violation of the statutes cited above (and others). To use the power of the state to deny a citizen any right guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution (look up “state action”) is a Sec. 1984 violation along with a host of other no-no’s. That’s a no-brainer. These aren’t lawyers threatening a lawsuit. These are government prosecutors. They ARE the government.

    Now, to more practical problems with this watchdog censorship group. Without even looking at the specific Missouri law they’re talking about using to bring these “lying” charges, there are some practical holes in this scheme large enough to drive a certain ego through.

    The charge is lying (presumably it’s called something more elegant but I use the term because we all know what it means). A criminal prosecution involves the elements of fact and intent.

    First, it has to be a lie. And the prosecutor doesn’t get to presume the proof before they’ve proved it. The judge or jury does that.

    So, let’s say one of these nuts “charges” someone with the offense (assuming it’s a misdemeanor and chargeable by a criminal “information” issued by the prosecutor — otherwise, they’ve got to go before a grand jury with this mischief — thus, the reason to involve the Police or Sheriff — these folks can make an allegation (themselves? the prosecutor is not ordinarily also the complaining witness/victim but what the hell, let’s give them that one and let them swear to their own complaint and issue their own information based on their own complaint — what they’re doing is no sillier than that on balance) and the Sheriff or Police Chief can go arrest the culprit, without any trial or showing at all (assuming they know who the culprit is — see more on this below).

    Anyway, ambling on, lying is the offense and, therefore, subject to proof. So, first, they have to prove the lie is a lie. In a political ad? Good luck. Second, they have to, I would hope and assume, prove intent.

    All told, they have to prove what was said, who said it (or, in this case, since it’s an entire campaign and probably an ad agency to boot, what cabal of conspirators said it), that it’s a lie and, if you get that far, that the person (or persons) directly responsible knew it to be a lie.

    We’re talking criminal prosecutors. Not somebody suing their neighbor because they said the guy’s wife was fat when, in fact, she’s quite svelte, in his opinion. Whatever. That’s not what this is.

    If it were, we’d let them go fight about it and the case would be over sometime after Chelsea Clinton’s second term. But, this is state action. This is criminal. People get put in jail for these things.

    These are state prosecutors. This is the government. It’s reprehensible. That is not what this country is supposed to be about but you see what people will do when threatened, or when they are so “invested” in something that they can’t see clearly any longer. There are limits and lines you don’t cross but you don’t see the lines anymore. They won’t be the first prosecutors to suffer from that affliction (certainly not the first attorneys, please). But, it has to be stopped and they have to be grabbed and shaken to come to their professional senses. Or, they need to go sell shoe laces on 7th Avenue, as a good friend used to say.

    On a personal note, the sight of these two law enforcement officials (which is what they are) threatening to prosecute people and, in the next breath, spouting off campaign platform and campaign worker talking points, was Alice in Wonderland (e.g., “We’re not only going to crack down on crime, we’re going to explain that our guy’s for lower taxes for everyone under 5′ tall.”)

    I thought it had to be a joke at first. SNL could have done it. It would be an improvement on their recent material. But, no, apparently it is not a joke. The Governor certainly didn’t appear amused.

    Next relevant question:

    #2. Civil Service Regulations. In most jurisdictions, including all with which I am familiar, state employees (I don’t know who pays the salaries of these people) are prohibited from engaging in any political activities at all (aside from exercising their personal rights to contribute to and support and, of course, vote for, the candidate of their choice) on state time (while working).

    The serious problem with these numbskulls is that they’re going far beyond merely putting a bumper sticker on their city, county or state vehicle (which is generally prohibited, at least in any jurisdiction I’ve even heard of).

    They are talking about using their official governmental offices to investigate and prosecute anyone they (as sole arbiters of fact and fiction) think is lying (and they’re not clear on this — does it apply to a lie told at the corner coffee shop, or only on television — how about the Web — how about national ads run on networks, by 527’s in other states or on national cable channels — this is interstate commerce, involving the federal government, the U.S. Constitution and the FBI).

    This is ludicrous if only from a practical standpoint.

    It gets worse. For example, are they talking about national ads by the campaigns? Both campaigns? Since the candidates are required now to acknowledge and expressly approve advertisements, does that mean these two yahoos are going to issue arrest warrants for John McCain (I would say “and” Barack Obama but it is obvious that this is not intended to police anything the Obama camp might say — only McCain — does the term “equal protection” mean anything?)

    Next, they use the term “lying” but in their statements, they refer to these “character attacks” so I’d suggest they are about to step into some perilously muddy water. What is a character attack? When is it a lie? Are these candidates public figures? Yes. Are the rules different for public figures? Yes. What on earth are these people thinking? Or, are they merely two loose cannons who nobody had the good sense to talk out of this nonsense?

    Finally. And I’ll assign this to my opinion though I suspect that some ethical cannons have been bruised if not trampled here. I’m not a member of the Missouri State Bar so I cannot speak for them. But, I certainly have an opinion.

    #3. Not only should they be fired, censured and otherwise dealt with by their employer, presumably the state or county government. In my view, these two should be referred to the State Bar of Missouri and disciplinary proceedings should be brought against both of them. My opinion is they should be disbarred but I’m a little tough in these areas and I don’t have a vote. But, that probably won’t happen and there are always at least two sides to a story. However, at a minimum, they should be severely reprimanded and placed on (Bar Association Judicial Council) probation. Meaning shape up and shut up.

    That’s my 2.5 cents worth.

  151. Pat, my next one really is 39! we can celebrate together.

  152. WigWag: You have shared that you lived through the Great Depression; I therefore can understand your fear (well, as best as I can imagine). I hope and pray that we have better entities in place so that that never happens again. However, it is possible. We should wait and see on what “they” have worked out over the weekend. I think that all of this is afire since most of the “powers that be” are up for election.

  153. prolix and myiq usually have me laughing out loud. But then again I think I am turning into an idiot and just putting my shoes on lately cracks me up.

  154. I’m not giving in to panic. If I go to the bank on Monday, whats to say everyone will think they need to do the same? Picture the Bailey Savings and Loan bank run scene in “It’s a Wonderful Life”. I couldn’t do that to my fellow citizens in my small town. But I have taken a few thou out and “put it away”. That seems prudent to me.

  155. Charles — first, please call me angie — I only added the “nc” after my name when I created an account on wordpress yesterday. Second, I know how bad the financial crisis is in this country — I practice debtor bankruptcy law — my only doubts about the bailout is this bailout bill because of the frenzied approach to it — as WMCB said upthread, the tactics Bush & the Dems seem to be “fear tactics” so that they can push through everything they want in it, which may be things that are not needed (ACORN earmark being one example). Since that is the case, I’m happy that McCain played a large part in not allowing that to happen and for us (the public) to get more information about what is going on in DC. I will not oppose a bailout per se because I see the need to keep Wall Street from failing but I want some balance in the bill that directly helps the “little guy” — for example, the bill that is passed should give bankruptcy judges the ability to cram down mortgages, etc.

  156. Irlandese:

    He were persistant, weren’t he?

    Like herpes

  157. I found some articles reporting on some top economist’s opinion about the bailout.

    This was the letter sent to Selby, signed by 200 economists


    Other articles talking about economists who oppose the plan.


    Even if a depression is on the horizon, Paulson, Dodd, Frank did not warn us. If they didn’t have the ability to see this crisis coming and stop it, how can we believe they have the ability to lead us out of it?

  158. I give up. Wigwag won’t get the message that we have gotten his/her point. He/she is going to continue to hammer us with it. I’m going to find my blankie and binkie and pull the covers over my head. My refuge–The Confluence–is no longer a refuge.

  159. bboomer, I’m with you. How can I lose what I don’t even have?

  160. If I go to the bank on Monday and they tell me they are out of money, my response will be “You too?”

  161. bb: It is our refuge! You are one of the pioneers for God’s sake. If we did not have this site most of us would be talking to our fingers and living on a diet of soup and jello.

  162. I get paid on Monday, so i’ll actually be putting money into the bank. How patriotic of me!

  163. You kept leaving the door open for him! That was a fun tag-team tr*ll trashing. You need to violate your “No Feed the Tr*ll” rules more often. I’m still laughing about the Colbert/Hilton ticket. Now that’s hot.

  164. The 3 page bailout has grown to 102 pages.

  165. Whenever Congress has a “must pass” bill every Congresscritter tries to load it up with pork

  166. Irlandese:

    I was trying to chase him away, and Seriously was trying to actually debate with him.

    That’s why I gave up

  167. I find it highly ironic (dontcha think) that after waiting 15 years to finally collect over 5 figures in child support arrears, and have some friggin’ money in the bank, it may go “poof” out the window. Easy come, easy go. I’ve lived skimp for so long, I know I can survive this too.

  168. I had a plumber here today to the tune of $129.00 to unclog a drain. During the course of the conversation he told me how he just bought a new Lexus. I was only too happy to make a partial contribution to his next payment on his behalf.

  169. wigwag – just curious – What was the location of the tent city you lived in?

  170. We are supposed to believe it when Obama SAYS he will not raise taxes. He only voted to raise taxes 40 times. Obama thinks we are idiots and not only calls us racists but now we are liars. The audacity of his hope is dangerous for America.

  171. My retirement plan is called “WalMart Greeter”

  172. Irlandese: I know just what you are talking about. I can never look at mac and cheese or tuna casserole again. Ever!

  173. Well, I am 61 years old; we have no retirement money and no property. We are still putting our daughter through college. Both of us have health problems. Hubby’s folks died last year and left us some money – God – this is our only survival! So, I am somehwat concerned about our money, yeah.

    BB – This is still your safe refuge. We all can’t expect to always agree with everything that everyone says, can we? We all have different ideas and thoughts. Anyway, I hope you continue posting your comments because I really enjoy them.

    I know it’s really late for most of you on the East Coast. But, it’s 9:30 p.m. for me on the West Coast and I’m gonna pull my binkie over my head, too! LOL

  174. Wigwag writes:

    No need to insult me Boston Boomer. I have some first hand experience with all of this; thats all. If you had lived through it, you might feel differently yourself.

    Ever lost all your money, Boston Boomer? Ever lived in a tent city?

    You ignore everything I say, but I’ll try one more time before I pull my blankie over my head.

    I am dirt poor. I am a 60 year old graduate student. I have been going to school full time since 1993, so I’m very deep in debt. I don’t own anything except my self respect. No matter what happens in this crisis, I’ll just have to deal with it. I’m not in congress and don’t have any control over what happens.

    I’ve got a very good idea about what a bank run and a depression are like, because (as I told you before) I’ve heard about it from my parents and grandparents since I was a child. I’ve also heard about what they went through in the dust bowl in the upper midwest, which was horrendous.

    I refuse to panic. And I’m not going to panic no matter how much you scream and yell and pull your hair. I’m going to wait and see what happens, and then I’m going to deal with whatever I have to deal with.

  175. Charles: That’s what I wrote to my Congresspersons. It needs to be a clean bill. Leave the niceties out of it.

  176. I was just saying the same thing today: PORK, PORK, AND MORE PORK. How much you want to bet they’ll be lining up to tack on as much as they can? Dammit! Just for once, author and PASS a bill with no pork and nothing but the matter at hand. Regain the trust of the American people and walk the f*cking walk for once. They’d better get it right, or every last one of them’s out the door next time they’re up for re-election. You can only line your pocket with so much money from special interests if you’re not in possession of your political seat.

  177. myiq: I am much too snarly to ever be hired as a Wal Mart greeter. The public just gets on my last nerve. I want to reach out and slap the mother who is letting her kid scream bloody murder while she meanders up and down the aisles. And the idiots who insist on talking on cell phones while driving their carriages into my calves are another group that drives me insane. How important is it to be “connected” 24 hours a day?

  178. And wigwag, if you actually shared your experience I’d probably be able to empathize with you. But all you do is threaten and hint around. We get no specifics from you.

  179. As Uppity Women points out, Obama didn’t want to have to show up and vote on the bailout.


    Unfortunately, he can’t vote “present” in the Senate

  180. Pelosi speaking now on CNN with the plan. LIVE.

  181. PJ:

    Oh shit! I would have to be nice to people?

    I better rethink my plans

  182. Sherri,

    Thanks. Of course I won’t stop posting. It’s just that Wigwag has been posting nearly identical comments like those tonight for several days. As Pat said about people in Walmart, it’s getting on my last nerve.

  183. myiq: You do and you must be smiling the whole time. My facial muscles just would not hold up that long. I prefer to shag shopping carts as my next line of work should it come to that. How bad can that be?

  184. Pat–LOL! I learned to do so much fixer-upper stuff simply because I didn’t have the money to hire it out. It’s not hard to do. If your plumber doesn’t resemble a Rhodes Scholar, it’s because it doesn’t take one to figure out a lot of the easier stuff. “Plumbing for Dummies”–check it out!

  185. I work in financial services and I fully understand WigWag’s sense of urgency about this. Our clients need reassurance, WE need reassurance, and there will be panic if that doesn’t come soon.

    I want to see the damn plan. Sans earmarks and with full accountability.

  186. I refuse to worry about my health. I don’t want to outlive my credit.

  187. What type of specifics are you looking for Boston Boomer?

  188. Nancy Pelosi is congratulating all the Dems who helped them reach whatever agreement they reached. They aren’t giving any specifics either. I don’t have a lot of faith in them.

  189. I caught up on the Madamab thread re: the Missouri Truth Squad issue. If any posters are here–someone please do a post on this. I just do not understand why this is not a HUGE scandal. Please explain how a nominee can use public officials to enforce what he considers to be dishonest ads? Beyond the obvious and frightening First Amendment issues, I have another question:

    Are these public officials performing these activities on taxpayer time? If so, the state taxpayers might be interested to know that is what their officials are doing with their money. How can he be directing state officials to act as campaign staff members? What is going on–seriously? I think this is just stunning.

  190. I am puzzled by all the ACORN funding in the bail out legislation. Is ACORN funding heavily or exclusively used for the Democratic Party’s Get Out The Vote effort?

    I really feel that I need to know more about ACORN. For years I thought their funding was from donations. Then I read several weeks ago that 40% of their funds come from the federal government – our tax dollars. I also read that it has been increasing during the Bush years. Does anyone have a good source on this very protected octupus?

  191. As my avatar shows, i have a wonderful smile.

    Not as bright as angie’s tho

  192. miq2xu–I’m glad you didn’t chase him away. He provided several hours of cheap entertainment. I’m on a budget again, you know. I just figured Seriously and Brittania were just taking pinata swings at him.

  193. Wigwag,

    You said you lived through a bank run and lived in a tent city. When was this? Where were you living at the time? What kind of work do you do now that makes you an expert on this situation?

  194. I would rather listen to that Florida mother, Casey, explain her whereabouts then to listen to Nancy Pelosi. At least we all recognize that Casey is a serious psychopath while Nancy, no different, is an elected member of congress.

  195. myiq: A little heavy handed on the make up but I am sure there is someone out there for you. I just wouldn’t post this on MySpace with a caption: loves to take long walks on the beach.

  196. Irlandese:

    I have low tolerance for teh stupid, and our visitor was mondo-dumb.

    I dealt with his type when I was in college – they can disrupt any discussion, but never have any answers.

  197. Hell, our Wally World greeters never smile at anybody. They won’t even say “hello”. They’re just there to make sure nobody runs out the front with any electronics.

  198. PJ–LOL!

  199. “I was trying to chase him away, and Seriously was trying to actually debate with him.”

    I apologize myiq, but he was totally ignoring me anyway and didn’t address anything I said, so I felt like he was there for the long haul anyway whether I talked to him or not. 🙂

  200. The Dems have just gotten on television and wasted my frakking time.

  201. PJ:

    A clown and a little boy are walking on a beach. the boy starts crying.

    “Why are you crying?” the clown asks.

    “Cuz it’s dark and I’m scared” says the boy.

    “Why are you scared? asks the clown. “I’ve got to walk back alone.”

  202. I think Wig Wag meant well. It was just that he began to scare us with possibilities. They may be out there lurking but most of us don’t want to go to bed with that being the last thought of the evening weighing on our minds.

  203. Pat Johnson, on September 28th, 2008 at 12:35 am Said:

    myiq: A little heavy handed on the make up but I am sure there is someone out there for you. I just wouldn’t post this on MySpace with a caption: loves to take long walks on the beach.

    Pat Johnson — don’t give myiq any hints about finding someone! — he is my board crush. I like a man who can make me laugh.

  204. Dee, I never lived in a tent city. I was 7 years old in 1929. My father and mother were from Germany. When the stock market crashed my father lost his job. When his bank failed he lost all of his savings. My father was a barber and my mother was a house wife. When my father lost his job he could no longer pay the rent. He went to live with his brother, my mother, my borther and I went back to Germany to live with my mother’s mother. Things were almost as bad over there but my grandparent owned a home so we had a place to live,

    I lived as a youth in Germany for four years before returning to the United States, Those years in Germany were hell. I missed my father and the German economy was collapsing. We lived on the food we grew and what we could scrounge and we watched the economic crisis cause the German people turn to facism and to Hitler.

    My story has a semi happy ending. My family was reunited and we all got out before the NAZIs took over. But the years apart had destroyed my parents relationship and it was never the same again.

  205. dragoneyes, on September 27th, 2008 at 11:28 pm Said:

    dragoneyes, Thank You! This is a great link to a WSJ article by Paul Gigot. So, what we always thought about Freddie and Fannie, that they were here to help the little guy, wasn’t exactly true. It was a money machine for the privileged, too — the people that Obama publicly rails against — not so in his actions, though.

    “I found this interesting: “My battles with Fan and Fred began with no great expectations. In late 2001, I got a tip that Fannie’s derivatives accounting might be suspect. I asked Susan Lee to investigate, and the editorial she wrote in February 2002, “Fannie Mae Enron?”, sent Fannie’s shares down nearly 4% in a day. In retrospect, my only regret is the question mark.

    Mr. Raines reacted with immediate fury, denouncing us in a letter to the editor as “glib, disingenuous, contorted, even irresponsible,” and that was the subtle part.

    He turned up on CNBC to say, in essence, that we had made it all up because we didn’t want poor people to own houses, while Freddie issued its own denunciation.”

    Again, wait and hurry up — since 2001????

    To me, the guilt implied, or should I say, “hurled,” in the last sentence above is one reason why an organization like ACORN keeps being funded.

  206. Shite, WigWag. That makes me shiver.

  207. angie; I have spit more liquid onto my screen with comments posted by myiq and prolix! Not an attractive site but the humor just catches you off guard on occasion. This usually occurs around this time of night and I have often wondered what Riverdaughter thinks when reading the previous night’s thread. We tend to off completely off topic about now.

  208. Nasty Nancy said, “We’ve made progress on the bailout, we just have to get it on paper.”

    Yes, Nancy, I’ve written “War and Peace 90210,” all I have to do is get it on paper.

  209. Why was Chuck Schumer laughing in the background? Weird.

  210. Would that be, toilet paper?

  211. One can only surmise what is contained in those 102 pages. But sure it says something to the effect: you are once again screwed.

  212. I felt like a guilty kid when RD came on thread this AM. Felt like I had been naughty and stayed up all night playing Swat the Tr*ll and I was going to get in trouble!!

  213. I myself have a penchant for post it notes.

  214. Has anyone else wondered how WigWag could have lived through the great depression yet? And sound like an Obot at the same time? And live in a tent city? And talk like an economist? Just sayin’….

  215. I agree Pat Johnson about WigWag. And, thank you for sharing your story with us, WigWag. You have a lot ot tell of life’s experiences. As I said before, I can understand your fear over what is happening now. Let’s keep a watchful eye on what is going on – that is the value in your sharing – as it could possibly happen again. I think “they” have come to an agreement tonight so hopefully something as dreadful as what WigWag had to live through will not happen again.

    Good night all!

  216. Sorry people I know Barney has a lot supporters because he defended HRC all the way but he has his hands in this mess. Anyway I did a quick graphics on my blog on him – not my greatest work called: We love our pirates even though they steal from us


  217. People like Nancy Pelosi doing nothing but squeezing political mileage out of this crisis make me ill. I’m hoping somehow she gets the boot somewhere along the way. What an incredible disappointment she’s turned out to be.

  218. I have a problem with his math. He claims to be 60 which makes him born in 1948. The Great Depression started in 1929 and lasted for approximately 10 years. I may have missed something here.

  219. Okay, I have a weird sense of humor. But so does Joe Cannon:


  220. Carolyn, you can call me anything you want, but do not call me an Obama supporter. I repeat, do not call me an Obama supporter!

  221. Of the 102 pages, 45 are instructions for Nancy on how to use an ATM, 55 are notes passed back and forth between Barney Frank and Dodd making fun of John Boehner’s name, the last two are “We heart Acorn,” with x’s and o’s.

  222. My mom was born during the GD, but she doesn’t remember it.

    She’s 74

  223. WigWag–are you really 86?

  224. Irlandese: Don’t feel guilty. myiq is one of the diarists on this blog and he has his own. Highly intelligent person. Prolix is also a great contributor. Between the two of them they are very informed. RD knows this and note that when either makes a joke, it is usually related to the topic at hand.

  225. I’m sorry you had to go through that, Wigwag. I’m glad you survived. Many of us have had horrible childhood experiences and somehow gotten through it. I did. If you were 7 in 1929, you are about my father’s age. He was born in 1922.

    I understand that you are afraid, but none of us can control what will happen. I think it’s always best to just take things one day at a time. You need to take care of yourself emotionally. Watch a good movie, eat some comfort food. Relax and take deep breaths when you start to worry.

    Things have a way of working out. At least you have this community to come to. Most of us here are worried in our own way. I’ve been through some difficult time in my life, and I’ve learned how to let go and let the universe work. If I can’t control something, I focus on the things I can control.

    I really hope you’ll try to let go a little bit and take care of yourself tonight and tomorrow.

  226. Prolix: You are too much! I know have a bottle of Windex at the ready.

  227. Irlandese,

    I agree with you.

    Pelosi, Frank, et al., have been ridin’ dirty on Freddie and Fannie for far too long.

  228. Michelle Malkin is actually very smart, and she engages in more thorough research than most mainstream media outlets ever do. Hot Air has an obvious bias, but the claims are generally supported with reasonable arguments.

  229. WigWag, what happened to your family is truly unfortunate. But advising people, in a panicked tone, to withdraw their money from the banks is a little irresponsible, yes? Especially since even the so-called experts and economists still seem to be figuring out this crisis and even disagreeing with each other about the scope and resolution of the crisis, and in their predictions.

  230. Prolix,


  231. Lady Boomer…

    Happy Birthday. It is mine, also. I plan to go out in the morning, and put my new ” Another Democrat for McCain/Palin ” bumper sticker on.

    I,too,have been experiencing the upside down political conundrum this year. Though it has been decades since I came out, and it was in a very political manner. I was a paid lobbyist for a state-wide coalition of gay organizations for a few years. I do feel that, in some ways, the field has been flipped on us. People talk about how the Rep. party was the party of Lincoln. They were the people who wanted a conciliatory stance toward the south after the civil war, and led the way in trying to bring the newly freed black americans into a better role in our society. It was the Dems who passed the Jim Crow laws, and began the KKK and wanted the south brought to its knees and its black population kept in check.

    So, imagine what Reps. must have felt like in the late 1800’s when they saw their party, moving toward stands that they had never anticipated. It may end up that way for us. It may be that this coup is permanent, and we will have to build our own home someplace else. I am old, but I am not too old for that. You start over as many times as you have to in this life. It is in the rule books, and that is the way it is. What you don’t do is lie, cheat, and steal to reach your goal. That is also in the rule book. How you play the game does matter. The ones being labeled racist now, are, for the most part, the ones who were at the head of the marches to bring equal rights to blacks when it happened. I, for one, will not tolerate that.

    In an effort to win votes, the Dem. party has promised houses to people who don’t work, don’t save, and cannot possibly afford them. I have no problem with people owning houses, I also don’t look down on people who rent instead of owning. What I do look down on is someone expecting me to pay for them to have a house out of my work, and my toil, and the hard years I have spent earning enough to take care of mine own. I pay my taxes, I donate when I wish to, and am able. I don’t want my government taking more, because someone else wants it. That is socialism, and it hasn’t worked anywhere else, it will not work here.

  232. My theory is you have to laugh or cry, and tears mess up my make-up

  233. That Cannonfire article is a hoot. Yeah, he’s still having some morphine moments, lol!

  234. Pat, thank you for the compliments — I am humbled, but I have oh so much about which to be humble.

  235. I withdraw my obot comment. I was referring to the relentless nature of your comments. Your explanation was very touching.

  236. MyIq, if your makeup ran, you could mark the white lines on I-80.

  237. “Why are you scared? asks the clown. “I’ve got to walk back alone.”

    *does not have clown fear does not have clown fear* But….EEEEEEEE

  238. I guess I read a posting wrong. It was bb telling WW she was 60 yrs old.

    Just for the record: I am 33, have been compared to Charlize Theron in looks, hold 6 degrees, speak umpteen languages, am a gourmet cook, have built my own house without blueprints, invented the Internet, and have considered major league baseball as a career. I have never been married, never had kids, and am an orphan. I was raised in the woods by friendly wolves and bunnies and went to Harvard on a scholarship paid for by Tony Rezko. I have no intention at this time to run for office but will if asked. I am a big fan of Necco wafers and Brad Pitt.

  239. WigWag–my grandma is 90. She remembers the Great Depression very well. During our visit earlier this month, she was reminiscing about living through those times, and told me things were looking very similar. Here we are again.

  240. Pat,

    You are the one who makes me spit liquids every time. Fortunately I swallowed my ice water before I read your last comment.

  241. Lady B: Awesome post. Please check out this video. It is right on the money and very informative right on the same lines as your post and the one earlier.

  242. Pat, LOL!

  243. Pat — well it seems you are more qualified for POTUS then BO, so I suggest you throw your hat into the ring asap.

  244. I was born in 1960, and one of my earliest memories was the JFK assassination.

    I remember it because my mom picked me and my sister up early from daycare and because I saw him on telelvision even though my mom said he had “gone to heaven.” That’s also when I learned about video recording.

    I watched the 60’s, but was too young to participate. I remember the MLK and RFK assassinations, LBJ, the anti-war protests, Nixon, McGovern, and lots of other stuff I watched on the nightly news.

    I remember the summer that the Watergate hearing were on every day.

  245. angie: Are you asking? Since this is the only way I would consider. Did I forget to mention that I too am “humble”?

  246. SOD:

    Stealer’s Wheel

  247. I am in a serious funk here trying to sort out my political alliances!
    I have always been a Dem! I despised everything the Republican party stood for!


    I honestly feel as though I have been in a dream these last 30 years!
    I started working for the Democratic party at 16 on the South Side of Chicago! I learned early that politicians are a special breed of pond scum. But….I worked hard for the Democratic party because i was told by my Father that this was where we belonged!


    I feel like a damn chump!

    Then today I see this and posted it on my blog…..

    What the hell happened to OUR PARTY?

    I know it is not “Manly” to cry.. But jeebus! I actually feel as though someone stole my Blanky….I honestly feel violated!

    We need to band together as Bloggers, as PUMA’s , brothers and sisters and for the creators sake…as Americans and speak out as loud and as forceful as we can before it is too damn late!

  248. wigwag – thank you for sharing your background. You are the same age as my mother and six years younger than my dad. Neither one of them ever talk about those bad years. Again, thanks for sharing.

    On another note, I asked upthread about a good source for ACORN information. Then I found that No Quarter has a very informative post. Everyone should read it.

    I have come to the conclusion that our taxpayer dollars that started flowing into them in the 70s are actually a form of reparations but it has now run amok.

  249. My parents were HUGE Watergate-philes. I can now understand my parents feelings of betrayal now. First the Kennedy assassinations, the War, and then Nixon’s dirty politics. It was almost too much.

  250. My parents were HUGE Watergate-philes. I can now understand my parents feelings of betrayal. First the Kennedy assassinations, the War, and then Nixon’s dirty politics. It was almost too much.

  251. I will not be giving away my age, my weight or my shoe size but I remember Jimmy Carter, barely (cough, cough) and the long lines at the gas stations. BO and the idea of a BO administration brings up flashbacks to those days and the harm it did to the Dem. Party by enabling the Regan Revolultion to be born with one big exception — Carter was a decent man who was only too “idealistic” to be an effective President. BO is neither of those things and the harm an administration of his would do to this country would be 10x more.

  252. Attached are tomorrow’s guests on the Sunday Morning talks shows. The only one worthwhile watching will be Big Dawg on Meet the Press with Brokaw. The rest are the usual ho hummers.


  253. RedDragon:

    It is manly to cry, but only if there are no witnesses

  254. myiq2xu, on September 28th, 2008 at 12:48 am Said:

    Anybody who needs a good laugh today, which would be everybody, needs to read this.:)

  255. Yes Pat, I’m asking — your humility is impressive! LOL

  256. Seems I’ve got a tic.

  257. Fanny and Freddy were never for the little guy. I don’t know where that idea has come from. They were formed to buy mortgages made by banks, etc. to provide more funds to lend. The majority of people who have mortgages probably have had their loan sold to them whith the servicing retained by the original lender. You would never know. They buy mortgages on bungalows and mansions and everything in between. They are not focused on minority or low income loans at all. I was in the mortgage business for many years and have a lot of experience with them.They were never meant to be a government assistance program. Just an aid to lenders in keeping the funds flowing for loans.

  258. 1968 was the worst.

    It was only days after my birthday that MLK was killed. They closed school the rest of that week just in case.

    Almost 2 months to the day later, RFK was killed. He has been in my hometown days earlier as apart of the campaign.

    I went to bed on the day he died while they were still counting votes. The next morning I learned he was dead.

  259. myiq2xu and Irlandese,

    You young whippersnappers have no idea how tough it was for us leading edge baby boomers. My parents went through hell and I had to hear about it day after day.

    Of course now I feel differently, and I’m glad they shared their experiences with me. My dad is 86 like Wigwag, and everytime I get together with him I try to get him talking.

    I hope if Wigwag has gone to bed he/she will read these comments tomorrow. I’m so impressed with his/her computer skills. I convinced my mom to get a computer, but my dad just isn’t interested. I wish I could get him to go on-line and talk to people. He’d love it, but he just can’t get past the tech stuff that turns him off.

  260. RedDragon62–I checked you out after seeing you post comments and your link over at Uppity’s. You’re on my favorites list now.

  261. Myiq2xu:

    I never cared if it was man;y or not…lol. I was raised by a great Mom and with 5 sisters…well lets just say my daughters think I am “In touch” with my fem side…LOL

    But seriously…

    I really do feel like crying out..WAKE THE F@##@ UP PEOPLE!

    Sorry…didn’t mean to shout!

  262. myiq2xu — btw re: your comment upthread about your smile not being as bright as mine — are you implying that I look like a clown? (hint — this is desperate fishing for compliments on my part).

  263. angie:

    Marie Osmond has nothing on you

  264. Fox News just played the Dan Quayle “you’re no Jack Kennedy” moment.

    Wouldn’t it be great if McCain would do something like that to Obama. Like, “You’re no Ronald Reagan?” Or even better, “you’re no HIllary Clinton.”

  265. Thank you Irlandese!

    I am humbled by the support I have gotten these last few months.
    “Humbled beyond words”.

    Thank you again!

  266. BB–I am the very last year of the Babyboomer Era (1964), which I hated for years because I would play Trivial Pursuit BB edition and get my clock cleaned, not knowing any of that stuff from personal experience! But I have listened to everyone else’s stories for years. I’m one that likes to listen to older people. If they got through tough times, I want to know how they did it, and what they would do differently.

  267. Hey does anyone know when Barnie Frank is up for re-election is it this year?

  268. Also everyone check this out

  269. This will blow you out of the water:

  270. Barney is in the House – he is up every two years.

  271. myiq2xu — I think I like the clown comparison better — serves me right for fishing!!

  272. angie, I think you let your age slip before, but your secret is safe with me.

  273. All members of the House of Representatives are up for reelection.

    They are voted on every two years. 1/3 the Senate is reelected (6 year term) and the President is every 4 years.

  274. http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/27/say-the-wrong-obama-thing-in-missouri-get-arrested-not-so-fast-says-governor/#comments


    Well it doesn’t look good this Changy thing…

  275. Marie Osmond was my teenage crush

  276. OK, back to NOquarterUS…let me know if they post our names or addresses or phone numbers again. Keep faith and laugh and or cry…either is OK during these trying times. 😦

  277. Irlandese,

    I hope you know I was kidding about you being a “whippersnapper.”

    My youngest brother is about your age. He hates my generation and loves Obama. I love him, so I don’t talk politics with him anymore.

  278. Barney is probably running unopposed. But he has no chance of being defeated even if he has an opponent.

  279. We don’t have a lot of Republicans here in MA. Very few of the long-time Dems have opposition, unfortunately.

  280. BB, doesn’t he always get over 2/3’s of the vote in every election?

  281. But the primary is over and it’s about 99% certain that Barney has no opponent in the general.

  282. I wonder if Susie Orman has any advice…

  283. Sorry bb, we cross posted.

  284. BB–No, I don’t have a problem with company who thinks of a 44-year-old woman as a “whippersnapper”, lol! Sorry about your brother. That damn KoolAid cult! I’ve had so many relationships go by the wayside due to that. Thankfully, both my Sis and my Dad are Clinton Dems, and we’ve stuck together on this one.

  285. I hope WigWag will enlighten us as to why Barney Frank is the Messiah. I don’t see it from my vantage point but maybe WW has a personal reason to praise him so highly.
    Also, if we can come up with a trillion dollars, can’t we keep the FDIC solvent? And how do people of such low income that they don’t pay taxes have lots of money in 401ks?

  286. Ana — thanks for the link.
    Who is that Rep. Gregory Meeks (NY). I say that I’m p!ssed off all the time — but (and sorry for sounding like McCain) — an elected official shouldn’t be saying that out loud at a hearing!!

  287. The only thing hotter than a woman with a great smile is one with a long, supple neck.

    I’m part vampire, what do you expect?

  288. “We don’t have a lot of Republicans here in MA. Very few of the long-time Dems have opposition, unfortunately.”

    But the thing is, we have a lot of very conservative Dems. Basically, the way things are in MA, most people who would be Republicans in any other state join the Democrats because the Republicans are DOA. In my personal opinion, I’d love to see the Working families or Greens become the opposition party taking on the old school consensus Dems.

  289. myiq2xu — Oh! Sorry — I take it back!!! Please heart me! LOL

  290. Oh baby! I have a long supple swan like neck — it doesn’t show in the picture — and I’ve always been drawn to vampires (I’m originally from New Orleans, you know).

  291. Ana – that link to 2004 hearings on Freddie and Fannie is a must see.

    Is anyone doing their job in Washington? We need to throw out the bums – all the bums. What a damn mess.

  292. Ana – forgot to say thank you.

  293. Seriously — how/when did I let my age slip? Don’t link, just give me a vague idea — I was a mere babe during the Carter years — I only really remember them through pictures — ha, ha.

  294. Oh, cajun candy?

    I’m in luv!

  295. *swoon*

  296. tpt/ny, meileen, SOD, change, urgetocompute, petal, IronMan — Way upstream — I’m sure you’re long gone, but just saw your posts. I must have been writing and eating dinner at the same time. Thanks!!!

    Pat Johnson, TY for the Politico link. In addition to Big Dawg, McC and Obie will appear on the Sunday morning circuit. I’m curious to see how McC will do, how he’ll be treated, and if anyone will do the story about Obama’s new thought police.

    Now I have to go back up and read the Rezko link that IronMan posted: September 27th, 2008 at 11:22 pm.

    Gosh, I have to turn off the news. Obama, Steny Hoyer are all spin, spin, spinning what happened in the debate, McCain’s record, and positions. It’s so annoying. No, I’m not a Repub, but have a strong sense of fairness. I’m a Libra, after all.

  297. The best soap opera of the 60’s was “Dark Shadows”

    Angelique was the hottest vampire EVER!

  298. Somebody told somebody they had reached a level of maturity or something that they themself hadn’t reached until age X. I thought it was you who said it? Using my razor sharp powers of deduction, I figured out you must be at least age x. 🙂

  299. ana — Thank you for the video link. It’s great. It’s also linked in my post via Larry Johnson’s article at NQ. I considered including the video itself, but decided against it as it endorses McCain/Palin at the end, and The Confluence endorses Nothing On Top — meaning it’s up to each voter to decide how they express their Nobama.

  300. Angelique had a few screws loose, though. That guy she is so into was like 35 years older than her, and I think he would ping most people’s gaydar a little bit.

  301. myiq2xu — I remember Dark Shadows!! I was a toddler (maybe) but my mom watched it faithfully and she gives as an example how smart I was that when the music would start playing I would bite her on her cheek!! That must have been the start of my vampire fascination.

  302. Like you, I went through Political Party Identity Crisis a while ago. But I am so over it now. I am an now an Independent. It was difficult making this choice but I really had no choice. And I don’t look back at what might have been. It’s a waste of time and carries too much emotional baggage. The Democratic party is not the party that once inspired me. It lost it’s way and it lost me.

    I do not and will not support that party no matter what they do anytime in the near term. It’s like a divorce. And the papers are final.

    Fiscally speaking the Republicans are right. On this issue. But it is an important enough issue to give credit where credit is due. Not the kind of credit the Dems have been giving. And expecting.

    Never in my wildest dreams did I ever consider that I would be at this point in my lifetime. Until this year. It has been a painful and eye opening experience. So for that I am thankful. The eye opening part that is.

    Very thoughtful post. As if you could post anything else.

  303. Given the success of “True Blood,” “Dark Shadows” will be brought back on NBC with Keith Odiousmann as Barnabus Collins.

  304. And also, not to give spoilers, but did you see the last one?

  305. Seriously — ah! I remember exactly to what you refer — thanks!

  306. myiq2xu — it’s a hoot.

  307. In the Dark Shadows movie, Carolyn was ther sexy-hot neck nibbler

  308. Charles,
    from the blog “Chicagoans against Obama” they list the following story:


    The source might disqualify it for you, but it’s worth giving a look.

  309. Paganpower–my comment upthread was very similar. It is as painful as a divorce. But as the ink is dry now, I can move on and make decisions based on less what I’m told by one party and more what facts I uncover about said situation. Very empowering.

  310. OK…I’m falling asleep with my laptop open — it’s time for bed.

    here’s a little lullabye tribute to the great Conflucians. I’m so happy to be “Stuck in the Middle with You.”

    Clowns to the left of me…Jokers to the right…here I am stuck in the middle with you…

  311. ana — oops, my bad. That is a great video but not linked in my piece. The one you posted is about those truth squads. Ayiiee.

    Somewhere up there is the one I referred to, with various oldies but goodies as soundtrack, beginning w/ “Money For Nothin’.

  312. Which one was Carolyn? Kate Jackson or the one who played Josette?

  313. Irlandese — good analogy about it being like a divorce. I sent my torn Dem. registration card to Howard Dean back in March and registered as an Independent. I told him if he didn’t ensure that FL & MI were seated fully & fairly the DNC should not count on my vote come Nov. Obviously he didn’t care, but I’m a woman of my word.

  314. Pat…

    If you’re also filthy rich I believe you’re my daughter. Now send Mommy a check!

    Nite all.

  315. Yes myiq2xu — the music of my youth!

  316. angie–I still have my Dem card. It’s like an old memento from the Past Men in My Life. I did, however, unsubscribe to the online DNC mailer, and left them a scathing screen-long rant about how they screwed Hillary in the window they provided for “reasons for unsubscribing”. I guess someone there got the message. I’ve never gotten a thing again–not even from the post office.

  317. I’m probably talking into thin air here because it is so late. Have been reading this thread—good post, btw.

    Just wanted to say that Charles is right-on about the liquidity problems-it will filter down to our banks. My daughter told me today that my bank, Wachovia, is being taken over next week by Citi Group. I really was happy with Wachovia too.

    Imagine a run on the banks considering reserve requirements (not sure of the % right now)-would create massive panic.

    We do need a better bail-out bill though and no pork in it.

  318. Today’s NYTimes editorial places a lot of the blame on Bush:

    And there is probably no greater missed opportunity than the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac passed by the House in 2005. If the law had been enacted, the takeover of those companies may have been avoided. It failed in large part because President Bush wanted to fully privatize them and feared that if they were adequately reformed, privatization would lose steam.

    Indeed, it was in the Bush years that antiregulation and deregulation found full expression, fueled by an ideology that markets know best, government hampers markets, and problems will magically fix themselves.

  319. kc, I’m here in the thin air talking to myself too. I had a bad migraine earlier today, so took the big bad drugs and slept for 5 hours.

    Better now, but of course I’m not sleepy now at 1 am! I may have to take an ambien to get my sleep back on track.

  320. God–Dark Shadows! I used to try to watch that before I got shooed out of the room. I was your typical kid–wanted to watch the scary stuff, then had to sleep with the light on that night because Barnabas Collins was coming for me.

  321. Irlandese — “an old memento from the Past Men in My Life.” Very funny — I don’t have any of those mementos though — as soon as I’ve kicked the bums out I invite my best girl friends over, open a bottle of wine (or 2) and have a ritual “bonfire” (in the fireplace) of all the stuff, pictures, etc. that reminds me of them! LOL

  322. New post up if anyone is still awake. Come up and join me.

  323. WMCB—–night owls. My worst vice. Hope your migraine has migrated. My daughter gets those and takes emitrex (sp?), but they are expensive and her insurance doles them out slowly.

  324. I liked to watch it before school. The Sci-Fi Channel used to have shows like DS and Forever Knight, now they have infomercials. 🙂 It’s a plot by parents to make their kids watch the Today Show.

  325. Refraining on Commentary on this one as their actions speak louder than any words I can muster:


    New Obama Campaign Poster Released for Missouri

    Campaign is testing it out there and will be going national with it in all 57 states if they can get away with it.

    Here is the Link:


  326. Better go to bed–can’t sleep in tomorrow-today. This whole mess is too depressing–money in politics is the root of all our problems .

    Night all–take care.

  327. Hey, come up and read my post in which I mock Obama!!!

  328. I’m late to this party, but I appreciate WigWag perspective. Her experience isn’t in Wall St, but in trying to find the last potato to eat. We need every voice.

  329. Hello, I have come to this page before but never posted. I was a Hillary supporter. But a democrat all of my life. I HATE OBAMA. I get it all ways because I am black and a democrat. I cannot believe that Obama has gotten this far. Hillary should have been the nominee.

    I am voting for McCain. This is a strange departure from my values but it feels right (no pun intended). I feel that McCain will be a better leader. He is not Bush. I find myself not recognizing the DNC or its followers. The obamabots are psycho and pelosi, Dean, Kerry make me sick to my stomach.

    This party, THE DNC is a shell of what it used to be. I have not changed– it did. I am losing friends over this. The strange part is. I am not just voting for McCain in retaliation, I actually find that he makes more sense than OBama, is more sincere in his love for America and more passionate about the job. When they race bait and call names, I do not know Democrats anymore. Guys I have been watching Fox news. I never thought I would see the day but you know what. It is unbiased and I love that they question EVERYONE fairly. CNN and MSNBC was about to make me kick out my TV screen.

    I am very suspicious of this bailout deal especially with the ACORN business. I am glad that McCain went in there and caused the Republicans to look at it more carefully.

    Okay it gets worse, I was coming home and flipped on the radio and Laura Ingram was on. I liked her show. Rush Limbaugh came on after and I agreed with HIM. I pulled the car over. What is happening to me? Was I a Repub all along.?

    The truth is I started looking at myself. I have changed. Maybe I am more right center or left center. I think the DEMS are full of it lately. Obama sounds like a too far left socialist.
    Who is teh smartest Black woman I see on TV. Condi rice, the smartest Black man–Colin Powell.

    I am not a DEM anymore.

  330. I suggested earlier this week that the bailout isn’t necessary at all. Got called “crazy” for my trouble.

    Now maybe those who thought I was crazy will listen to James K. Galbraith, Simon Johnson and Kenneth Rogoff.


    Go there. Read that. It’s not a blog. It’s one of the few decent news sources we have left. It tells the truth.

  331. We’ve been here before, after the Great Depression, with the Savings and Loan banking system that was created in 1831 and closed its doors in 1989. “Between 1980 and 1994 more than 1,600 banks insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) were closed or received FDIC financial assistance”. (Wikipedia) Approximately 3 trillion dollars of taxpayers’ money was paid out. It is one of the reasons our economy never recovered from the Reagan years and kept sliding downward until President Clinton was elected. And I am going to be honest and say that I didn’t think Clinton could succeed in fixing it, but he did; just another four years and we might have been spared this economic disaster.

    I am also not an economist, but I am quite aware that you can basically break an economy down to its smallest denominator and that it is from these smaller numbers that the whole economy is created. Our base economy, the nuts and bolts of our expenditures have been neglected by our government (job loss, outsourcing, service economy, high inflation that lowers buying power) so that the money circulating is getting less and less while the top heavy profits of companies – whether they are oil or housing – take more and more money out of circulation.

    And it took the cooperation of both political parties to get us where we are today and it is going to take extreme cooperative action to fix it. Everyone talks about “the plan” but no one is sure what all it contains because of the government secrecy. And how prophetic is it that one of the the stumbling blocks is a division over 700 billion dollars for ACORN; an organization that Obama has had close ties with since he met Ayers. Scratch the surface of this economic crisis and you find the Obama connection and yet he tried so hard to avoid participating in any solution.

    We the People are caught between a rock and a hard place and an avalanche that may be unavoidable. The lessons we learned from our grandparents about how to survive the Great Depression may be our salvation.

  332. Two extremely sobering bits of information are circulating on the web the last few days. One is the video of county prosecutors threatening to go after anyone who “lies about Obama” in a political ad! That is terrifying. Even more terrifying is the presumption that goes along with a candidate confident to demand such tactics from people.

    The second is my American Thinker article, which you can read here:


    Barack Obama’s life work can be connected to a strategy so odious it is difficult to believe people could invent such a thing.

    I was once a democrat too, but as you learn more you realize that all they have ever had going for them is good PR, good tactics, and a feckless opponent.

    We need help!

  333. […] at a moderate Democratic weblog, The Confluence, life-long Democrat “Lady Boomer” writes in astonishment at the parties’ role reversal: Senator McCain and the Republicans are still rallying to prevent another blank check without […]

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