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Friday: The Treasury Secretary begged Pelosi on his knees?!

According to the NYTimes, the meeting on the financial bailout yesterday at the White House had definitely gone into fiasco territory:

The day began with an agreement that Washington hoped would end the financial crisis that has gripped the nation. It dissolved into a verbal brawl in the Cabinet Room of the White House, urgent warnings from the president and pleas from a Treasury secretary who knelt before the House speaker and appealed for her support.

“If money isn’t loosened up, this sucker could go down,” President Bush declared Thursday as he watched the $700 billion bailout package fall apart before his eyes, according to one person in the room.

WTF?!  This “sucker”?  That’s the way *I* talk, but I’m a blogger.  It’s part of my charm.  Shouldn’t we expect the President to behave like this is a very serious matter?  Oh, nevermind.  And what’s with Paulson falling to his knees before Pelosi?  This isn’t public theatre. What’s next?  A slug fest in Congress between the Democrats and Republicans?

Usually, I don’t do the sanctimonious little finger wag at the players in dramas like this when they get a little ‘exercised’ and passions erupt.  But this is so over the top:

In the Roosevelt Room after the session, the Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., literally bent down on one knee as he pleaded with Nancy Pelosi, the House Speaker, not to “blow it up” by withdrawing her party’s support for the package over what Ms. Pelosi derided as a Republican betrayal.

“I didn’t know you were Catholic,” Ms. Pelosi said, a wry reference to Mr. Paulson’s kneeling, according to someone who observed the exchange. She went on: “It’s not me blowing this up, it’s the Republicans.”

Mr. Paulson sighed. “I know. I know.”

The bailout deal looked resolvable until John Boehner pulled the rug out from everyone and said the Republican caucus in the House would not support more government regulation.  Everything is going as Anglachel predicted the other day.  This is a set up and trap by the Republicans to hang the whole stinky mess around the Democrats’ necks:

But a few blocks away, a senior House Republican lawmaker was at a luncheon with reporters, saying his caucus would never go along with the deal. This Republican said Representative Eric Cantor of Virginia, the chief deputy whip, was circulating an alternative course that would rely on government-backed insurance, not taxpayer-financed purchase of mortgage assets.

He said the recalcitrant Republicans were calculating that Ms. Pelosi, Democrat of California, would not want to leave her caucus politically exposed in an election season by passing a bailout bill without rank-and-file Republican support.

“You can have all the meetings you want,” this Republican said, referring to the White House session with Mr. Bush, the presidential candidates and Congressional leaders, still hours away. “It comes to the floor and the votes aren’t there. It won’t pass.”

It will also expose Obama’s tender underbelly.  When push comes to shove, he will save his backers on Wall Street over the hardworking American men and women who are going into massive debt on their behalf.  Er, that would be *us*.

If Obama had any core Democratic principles, he would know not to yield.  If he weren’t a lightweight, he could add his critical mass to the Democrats in negotiation.  Hey, here’s his first opportunity to reach across the aisle to get things done with Republicans in a post-partisan fashion and they are about to eat his lunch.  So much for the future leader of the free world who thought it was more important to strut his stuff in Berlin than sit with his advisors and hammer out policies that might work or that he actually believed in.

To be a successful president, and believe me, George W. Bush has been successful beyond expectations, you have to be able to do long term planning.  You have to be able to think several moves in advance.  OR you have to believe in what you *say* you believe and stand your ground.  Obama seems to be lacking in both of these areas.

I hope the Superdelegates are uneasy.  I hope they are regretting what they did last summer when they ignored the woman with the public support, the steely spine and the nasally voice of the policy wonk. SHE wasn’t even invited to the party and had to make her case directly to the American people, talking to bubble headed newsreaders who wanted to know what she thought of Sarah Palin.  I have nothing but contempt for the Superdelegates and it will give me great pleasure to vote against Frank Lautenberg and Jon Corzine when they run again.

What was their point, exactly?  Why support *this* man at *this* time in our nation’s history?   Someone better start talking.  The grown-ups out here are losing patience and the Democrats are headed for a four year time out.

385 Responses

  1. Obama, Penny Pritzker and Failing Banks:


  2. The ACORN stuff is a deal breaker, the Dems had to know that. If this was a book, I would say “This thing is too unbelievable, people do not act like this.” Then I would skip to the last chapter and figure out how it ends. Off to the gym.

  3. For anyone who missed it, I was banned from TalkLeft last night for responding to one of Jeralyn’s screeds against McCain with this:

    “Meanwhile, what has Obama done? Nothing.”

    Jeralyn can’t handle the truth.

    She deleted my comment and banned me.

  4. there, there, myiq, you’re always welcome here.

  5. Thanks, RD for sorting it all out – these are our “leaders”?

  6. Can someone tell me how to get my little kid picture back instead of this green blob?

  7. joanelle, I think you have to edit your profile to put it in. There have been several people who have had strange things happen to their accounts lately. Hopefully, it’s just WordPress tinkering and easy to remedy by re-uploading the pic. Give it a try.

  8. IIRC, on Monday the lefty blogs thought the bailout was a bad idea. Krugman is still opposed to the plan.

    But now many of those same blogs are blaming McCain for killing the bailout.


  9. Still getting over Edwards’ stomping on her KY / WV wins followed up immediately by the endorsements of Rockerfeller & Byrd…when their own constituents said, “No, thanks.” Is this really about the boys’ club jealousy of Bill? Fear of being beaten by a girl? Flat out deal-cutting with CYA cronies? Just for speculation: is Hillary covering to save the DNC? Why did Elisabeth Edwards let him run? Is it the tradition that goes back to Martha Mitchell: an injection to rump that curtails all function of the survival instinct?

  10. Working people will be far better off if the Paulson plan is passed than if its not. It is more progressive to let taxpayers pay the tab. Why? Because we have a progressive tax system. The top 1 percent pay 28 percent of all federal taxes. The top 5 percent pays 36 percent of all federal taxes. The bottom 40 percent pay no federal taxes.

    30 million working Americans have traditional pensions that will be unable to pay benefits if the market collapses. 34 million working Americans have 401ks that are mostly invested in the stock market. If the market plunges, their retirement plans plunge. 45 million Americans have IRAs with a significant portion invested in stocks. For many Americans this is all they have other than Social Security.

    It is far more progressive to let taxpayers pick up the tab than shareholders. The wealthier you are the more taxes you pay. If all your assets are wrapped up in your home (the price will plunge even more if the Paulson plan isn’t passed) and your retirement account a stock market plunge will be devastating.

  11. Joanelle – your hair is great – and your pumps are adorable.

    RD – great post. Hillary was all over NY as she was in her campaign yelling “we are going down if someone doesn’t do something and here is what to do” .

    She will the President in 2012. I just hope we make it through.

    McCain/Palin 2009

  12. Myiq, you always get banned for the best reasons. I’m glad you hang out here.

    I think Obama would have gone along with anything Paulson said. He’s the Wall Street candidate.

    The NYT article is funny. Can’t make this sh*t up.

  13. If you are a working person who wants to send you child to college but can’t afford the tuition, you can forget a scholarship if the market collapses. Where do you think colleges and universities get their scholarship money from? It’s their endowments. If the value of their endowments plunge, the number of scholarships they give plummets.

    Without a bail out working people can forget the idea of sending their kids to college.

  14. I too was banned by Jeralyn at TalkLeft a couple of wks ago for calling her “Taylor Marsh on delay”.

    Even BTD got into the act now. Maybe she threatened him with a ban too?

  15. SWPAnnA, it’s a coup. You have to realize while our happy warrior, hillary, was going out every morning giving those happy, cheery speeches, Howard Dean was calling the supers telling them to come out for Obama ASAP. It’s Clinton hate. They hated Bill, and they are not done with Hillary yet. They want them both destroyed.

  16. This language from the bail out bill, does it mean that any single assets that are sold at profits with taxpayer funds will result in 20% being stripped from the public and put into the hands of private organizations such as ACORN, regardless of how many (other) toxic assets result in total loss to the public e.g. of billions of dollars? If so, it is ensured that this “bail out” will never be in the public interest. I am beginning to not trust my government even more.


    1. DEPOSITS.Not less than 20 percent of any profit realized on the sale of *each troubled asset* purchased under this Act shall be deposited as provided in paragraph (2).
    2. USE OF DEPOSITS.Of the amount referred to in paragraph (1)
    1. 65 percent shall be deposited into the Housing Trust Fund established under section 1338 of the Federal Housing Enterprises Regulatory Reform Act of 1992 (12 U.S.C. 4568); and
    2. 35 percent shall be deposited into the Capital Magnet Fund established under section 1339 of that Act (12 U.S.C. 4569).

    REMAINDER DEPOSITED IN THE TREASURY.All amounts remaining after payments under paragraph (1) shall be paid into the General Fund of the Treasury for reduction of the public debt.

  17. Ironically, I have never gotten in trouble for some over-the-top things I have said. I have only been banned from two sites.

    Lambert 86’d me for mentioning William “The Weatherman” Ayers, and Jeralyn kicked me to the curb for pointing out that Obama has done nothing about this current crisis.

    He didn’t even want to stop campaigning to go to DC and do the job he is getting paid to do.

  18. The MSM has proven that it too is unable to multitask as well. Too busy pushing the candidacy of this non entity, they were unable to investigate his ACORN ties along with other questionable associations. Why not just open the treasury now to a fire sale as he will be too busy shoveling money out the door, as he did in Illinois, to appease his backers.

    I am so bummed out at this point in time that I believe no one. Last week McCain was insisting the underlying economy was “strong”, this week he is on a “mission” to address this mess. Obama does not have a clue, Bush is pushing for “reform” that should never have happened in the first place, and the same group who brought this mess to us in the first place is now in charge of “cleaning it up”.

    Other than Hillary presenting a plan, there is not one voice in Washington that I can honestly take seriously. While this debacle moves on to its final denouement, congress is playing politics once again.

    Will this help or hurt McCain? Will Obama benefit? What about us? The advisers to each are covered in ill gotten gains from these financial institutions and we are supposed to choose one of these phonies to lead?

    Both parties share in this debacle and neither candidate has offered a reason for me to give a rat’s ass about who is fit to lead. Sorry to say, neither one is equipped to lead us out of this. We have all been royally screwed.

    When deregulations are systematically stripped you merely open the door to the henhouse on behalf of the fox. In my view, there is little room for optimism coming from either candidate. All I am hearing is a constant round of finger pointing, headline grabbing, poll driven talking heads making excuses.

    I prefer to bury my head in the sand just to shut out the sound and the fury since we are all about to suffer the consequences of total mismanagement for years to come.

  19. By the way, if you are a working person who likes to go to the opera, symphony or ballet, you better hope the Paulson bail out passes. If you can only afford the cheap seats, how do you think arts organizations subsidize the cheap seats? It’s from their endowments.

    Democrats need to support the Paulson plan whether it gives the Republicans an advantage or not.


    Because it’s the progressive thing to do,

  20. Even BTD got into the act now. Maybe she threatened him with a ban too?

    Jeralyn does Palinpalooza and BTD does McCainpalooza.

  21. Wigwag, I actually don’t agree. I am not entirely convinced of this bailout. Where is Hillary’s HOLC? How about they bailout the debtors? Oh yeah, we actually spend money here in the US. That will stimulate the economy. F*ck this. We always get the breadcrumbs. Why isn’t there anything in the proposal like a cap on credit card interest rates? At this point, americans are by and large, indentured servents to the financial sector.

  22. Pat – where have you been and where is Eddy? Suspiciously, the 2 of you have been missing for 3 days? Trig and Piper are very unhappy!

  23. Carol: Like I said, I am totally drained from this mess. I feel such a sense of doom approaching that I have to block it out. This election has finally taken its toll. It has sucked the life out of me. To say it depresses me would be an understatement.

  24. myiq2xu, on September 26th, 2008 at 8:27 am Said:

    For anyone who missed it, I was banned from TalkLeft last night for responding to one of Jeralyn’s screeds against McCain with this:

    “Meanwhile, what has Obama done? Nothing.”

    Jeralyn can’t handle the truth.

    She deleted my comment and banned me.

    myiq2xu, many of your posts on this site have led me to believe you are a pretty perceptive and intelligent observer and commentator. I feel, if you will pardon my presumption, that it would help us all if you could get over being banned by Jeralyn. We need you brains here!

    I think RD’s latest post is one the best yet on this site. I think she is making an amazing contribution to keeping an intelligent focused discussion on this issue going. I have as much respect for her as I do for Hillary Clinton (now THERE’S a ticket – HRC and RD!!). So, I think we all owe it to her to engage as deeply as we can with the issues she’s raising.

    Sorry for the rant, but I feel you can get over Jeralyn and tell us here what you think. I, for one, would like to know.

    (Administrator’s note: When inappropriate comments are made the Site Administrator’s will step in. Please don’t hijack the thread by stirring up unnecessary trouble)

  25. masslib: Hillary supports the Paulson plan and she will vote for it (as it has been amended by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd). She has other great ideas that should be enacted later.

    The median federal tax payment for all American taxpayers is $8,399, If federal taxes for median tax payers went up 30 percent to pay for the bail out (which they won’t) the average tax payer would pay $3 thousand more in federal taxes. If the Paulson plan isn’t passed, housing prices will plunge even more and that same tax payer who pays the median tax will see the value of their 401k or IRA or traditional pension plunge by far more than that.

    The average working person will see their wealth much less negatively effected if the Paulson plan passes.

  26. masslib–Agree. Bill Clinton mentioned the other day that economic data from 2000–2005 showed that 40% of GDP was coming from the housing sector and 60% from consumer spending. In other words, you and I and others like us are totally responsible for supporting the economy. But jobs are disappearing, wages are declining in real dollar terms, and people are using credit cards for essentials like food and gas. A plan that doesn’t help consumers is just money wasted.

  27. I have to question if the democrats refusing to budge on this is another election ploy to get Teh One in office. As long as MSM blames everything on the Repubs, his numbers go up in the polls.

  28. WigWag: It’s got to have something working from the bottom up. I’m sorry but we shouldn’t be railroaded into an inadequate balilout just because the republicans refuse to budge on helping out strapped homeowners. It is time to call their bluff. Are they more worried about what happens to THEM or US? I’m betting they cut a deal to save their own bacon.

  29. myiq2xu, on September 26th, 2008 at 8:27 am Said:
    For anyone who missed it, I was banned from TalkLeft last night for responding to one of Jeralyn’s screeds against McCain with this:
    “Meanwhile, what has Obama done? Nothing.”
    Jeralyn can’t handle the truth.
    She deleted my comment and banned me.

    It’s bizarro world in lefty land. They lie about Palin and book banning so they can have something to scream about. Then they turn around and censor opposing opinions. It makes no sense at all.

  30. masslib: one other thing. A failure to pass the Paulson plan (as revised) could easily lead to the equivalent of a run on the bank. Unless your 75 or older, you’ve never experienced a bank run. Trust me, it isn’t pretty. Trying to withdraw your money only to find it isn’t there can be very scary.

    If the Paulson plan isn’t passed, next week or the week after, you could easily to to the cash machine and find it won’t allow you access to your money. Your account will be frozen and you will not be able to withdraw it,

    Franklin Roosevelt would support the Paulson plan.

  31. TheRealKim, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:02 am Said:

    I have to question if the democrats refusing to budge on this is another election ploy to get Teh One in office. As long as MSM blames everything on the Repubs, his numbers go up in the polls.

    Kim, you may be right, yet the poll averages on Real Clear Politics are not supporting this. They have BO up 3.2%, which is down from 3.7% a few days ago. One could imagine that BO should be soaring ahead at this time. That he apparently is not does not bode well for the Dems.

  32. Just caught this…

    Joe Lieberman on FOX this morning-

    Lieberman said there was absolutely no deal yesterday, except between a few members of the Banking Cmte (you know, Barney Frank & Dodd – the two who brought us the Fannie/Freddie debacle). Lieberman said that he was in the Senate Caucus and NO deal was brought to them. (This echoes what House Republican leadership was saying yesterday.) He said it was a fiction when Reid, Dodd,Frank, et. al., had the press conference and said a deal was worked out before McCain came to Washington. They were playing politics, pure and simple.

    Reid, Dodd, Frank…the three amigos heading up the DO NOTNING crowd in Congress.

    Tell like it is Joe Lieberman! Expose those suckers that lied!

  33. Riverdaughter, if you had ever personally experienced a bank run you might feel differently.

    Check out the spread between LIBOR and Fed funds. They are at record levels. They suggest a total freeze in crdidt may be imminent.

    That means when you go to the bank to withdraw cash, the bank won’t have any.

    Are you really willing to take that chance?

  34. Ha! Four years is generous. People are already asking: Are Democrats going the way of the Whig?

  35. WigWag, very few people here are arguing “do nothing and let it crash”. We are not saying that some infusion of money into the markets is not necessary. It is obviously necessary. But Paulson’s plan is flawed. All the “weapons of economic DESTRUCTION!” fear-mongering is not helpful. “Give me 700 billion with no strings attached, or you are all DOOMED!” is baloney. Americans have every right to demand our leaders look at other options, and the Dems trying to load up the bill with money for ACORN, riders on offshore drilling, etc is despicable.

  36. Thanks for this. last night I was watching the live camera Fox left on line after speeches (which I missed)
    I caught those House Republicans talking about protecting tax payers and Wall Street accountability…I didn’t know who they were – and by what they said I assumed them to be Democrats…imagine my confusion when I found out the truth….
    Also, Harry Reid did ask for McCain’s help – and when McCain suspended, he had the chutzpa to call it a stunt when he came

  37. WigWag, I don’t think so. Roosevelt would not support the Paulson plan. What Roosevelt would support would be taking the money from the Paulson plan and setting up a HOLC with it, so liquidity could flow again.

    I’m no economist, but according to what I’m hearing, we’re being asked to circumvent regular people who can’t pay their mortgages and pay the creditors directly for those bad loans. I say no deal. And no deal to paying twice, i.e. a bail out and a HOLC. Do it right, save the people and the markets will follow.

  38. Riverdaughter, the idea that the tax payer shouldn’t bear the burden of paying for the bail out is “faux” progressivism. The bottom 40 percent pay no federal income tax at all. That means if the tax payer does end up paying the bill, 40 percent of Americans pay absolutely nothing.

    But that 40 percent does have homes that will plunge in value and they do have retirement plans that will plunge to levels that will make retirement impossible for them.

    Most Americans have their wealth tied up in their homes and retirement plans. Those are the assets most at risk if a bail out plan isn’t passed.

  39. Pat: I know exactly how you feel. Last August, when I left the BO campaign, I had this sinking feeling feeling that a true comedy of errors was being played out and ultimately, the joke would be on me. I had never felt more depressed and let down by my own party in my life, now it is just the whole kit and kaboodle that is playing with my life and my childrens life.

  40. Thanks, RD.

  41. WigWag, pardon me if I don’t think that completely screwing the top 60% of the country because, after all, it won’t bother the bottom 40% is a great idea.

  42. WMCB, the bail out plan being talked about now is not the original Paulson plan it’s the plan as revised by Barney Frank. Barney Frank was a huge Hillary supporter, he is brilliant and he is one of the most progressive members of Congress.

    He has added oversight to the Treasury Secretary, he has included a equity share for tax payers, he has added wage control for financial executives.

    At this point it is his plan as much as Paulson’s and Hillary Clinton supports it.

  43. The only certainty that I see happening is that once again, my property taxes will rise which may make it impossible for people like me who have worked, struggled, and lived within their means, to get by. Right now, local services have been cut but my property taxes have risen each year since monies from the federal government have been drastically reduced. This misery will find its way to each and every one of us in one form or another.

  44. WMCB, the top 60 percent of the country will be far more “screwed” if the value of their homes plunge another 30 percent and their IRAs, 401ks and/or defined benefit plans are cut in half.

  45. WIgwag: I read somewhere that Hiilary and McCain are somewhat approving of the revised plan by Barney Frank. Is this correct?

  46. WigWag,

    Are you in favor of turning control of the government over to the President and the Treasury secretary? I’d like to see what the plan is first. And no, I don’t trust Barney Frank. I don’t trust any of them at this point. I want the U.S. Constitution back in effect. I’d rather die free than live under fascism.

  47. The top one percent of tax payers ($305,000+ income) pay 28 percent of all federal income tax. The top 5 percent of tax payers ($145,000+) pays 36 percent of all federal income tax.

    It is better to let these wealthy Americans pay for the bail out then low income workers with all their wealth tied up in their homes and retirement accounts.

  48. “I didn’t know I was going to be the referee for an internal GOP ideological civil war,” Congressman Barney Frank said on CBS’s “The Early Show” today.

    Of course Barney Frank did not mention his enormous role in creating this Fannie/Freddie debacle in the first place. He’d rather obscure his own culpability by blaming the GOP for all the mess.

    Where is the leadership in the dem party?

  49. Is Zogby just hedging his bets? he seems to predict a McCain landslide

  50. I’ve called my Senators, Bayh and Lugar, and gave them the lowdown. They will never get my vote again if they bail out Wall Street. The only bail out I support is the HOLC solution suggested by Hillary Clinton. I also told Lugar that the Republican party had a chance to capture my formerly Democratic vote for years to come if they played this right.

    I’m perfectly okay with a little political theater, as long as it means we don’t have to start printing more money than is currently changing hands on any given day.

  51. Same here, Pat. I’m already deep in debt from trying to finance my education in middle age. The property taxes I pay on this house are already unbelieveable. I don’t have any sympathy for any of the fat cats. I certainly don’t want a depression, but I also don’t want my country fully taken over by Wall Street (which Paulson is part of).

    I think both Obama and McCain need to get out there and explain to the American people exactly what is happening and what they stand for on this.

  52. urgetocompute:

    There is nothing to get over. I’m not upset, I’m amused. I expected this, I just wondered how long it would take.

    I carefully folowed Jeralyn’s “rules” but refused to fall in line. Like all PUMA’s, I have the right to remain silent but not the ability. My idol is the boy who said “The emperor has no clothes!”

    As for this crisis, I don’t know the answers. I am not an economist or even an accountant. I am terrible at manth and need to take my shoes off to count past ten.

    But I think our leaders should be working on the problem, not out campaigning.

    Leaders lead.

    Hillary is a leader. Can we have her back now?

  53. Wall Street has joined the ranks of Halliburton, KGB, Blackwater, and all other nefarious businesses working on “behalf” of the American public. Over charging, lack of accountability, inflated prices, dubious practices, all sanctioned and supported by our elected congress.

    Meanwhile, Rangel faces ethics investigation and Ted Stevens is on trial for bribery. Barney Frank fashions this travesty then works to fix it? How much more are we being asked to swallow before this entire house of cards collapses? The average taxpayer is totally irrelevant as usual. Talk about shut up and sit down. That’s us.

  54. oceancitygirl,

    Exactly why I don’t trust Barney Frank. Both McCain and Clinton warned about this situation years ago and no one did anything. Let Hillary Clinton and John McCain get together and hammer out something. Send Obama back down to Florida to study foreign policy and order room service. I don’t want to see his face or hear his voice today.

  55. WigWag, some of us right now are more concerned with just being able to stay in our homes than what the value of the home is. Nor does it help Wall Street to have a bunch of collateral that nobody wants. Much better to keep a stream of cash flow so that there’s no need for foreclosures. As a former commercial banker, I can tell you that the last thing you want is to have to realize on your collateral. What you want is for the borrower to keep paying the on the loan, even if you have to re-write the terms.

  56. Oceancitygirl
    Indeed, Frank has some chutzpa talking these days at all. here’s a video on what he said 2 years ago. It’s from Fox – but – his own words

  57. bostonboomer, I;m not unsympathetic with your point of view, but again, tou know Barney Frank. He is from Brookline. He supported Hillary to the end. He is the best we have right now. He has ameliorated the worst aspects of the Paulson plan.

    Look at the TED spread, it suggest that credit is virtually frozen. Whatever bank you use doesn’t have all the money you deposited there on hand. They’ve loaned about 70 percent of it out to others. That means if you and all other depositers go to withdraw your money, your bank won’t have it unless they can borrow it from others. The TED spead indicates that they won’t be able to borrow the money. That means the money in your checking and savings accounts are frozen.

    There was a time in American history that this happened regularly. It could happen again.

    Want to take that chance?

  58. I is bad a math too, as well as spelin

  59. So Obama looks unprincipled, McCain holds out, does not support the bailout and looks principled. Paulson sent for McCain to go to DC and McCain was just doing his duty. McCain wins all around.

  60. I will go along with anything Hillary and the Big Dawg agree with.

    I trust their judgment

  61. ACORN are Obama’s brownshirts, of course he’s looking out for them, without them he could never win elections.

    McCain and the House Republicans are trying to negotiate a hard bargain that is more fair and equitable for American taxpayers… they are trying to do the the job they were elected to do and look out for the people’s interests, not just the interests of a select few. Good for them. They are trying to get the American taxpayer a fairer deal.

  62. Bush is going to address the nation once again. Like we are expected to believe one word he has to say. Credibility, along with objectivity, is sorely lacking. Our “leaders” are so lacking in both leadership or credibility that it leaves me breathless.

    Aside from Hillary, there is not one politician from either side whose word is not suspect.

  63. Anna Belle, Hillary supports the bail out fashioned by Barney Frank. If it doesn’t pass, whatever wealth you have could easily be cut by 40 percent. And your checking account might be frozen.

    If you’re a taxpayer who makes less that $145,000 per year, a bail out by the tax payer will cost you little if anything.

  64. WigWag,

    I’m not going to have any say over what happens. That makes me angry. My so-called “representatives” don’t listen to me at all. I’m disgusted with all of them. I’m going to be poor regardless of what they decide. In my opinion this is another power play by the Bush administration. I’m simply waiting to see what happens. I know perfectly well that I’ll be screwed either way.

  65. I am going to clean my house. At least I have some control over the order under my own roof.

  66. Take care, Pat. I’m going to work on my disseration today, deal with the weather, and make a quick trip out to go to the class I’m assisting with. I hope we’ll hear from the candidates tonight.

  67. Pat its Friday, I expected no less. I cleaned mine last night.

  68. Anna Belle, Hillary is for the revised bailout with oversight on the treasury as well as HOLC solution. She said once we pass a measure that will stop a running on the banks then we need to step back and update the outdated regulatory framework. Check the CBS & CNN interview.

  69. I want to know more about this alternative plan. Does it really bypass the “need” for the bailout? Or does calling it “insurance” just give it a prettier name?

  70. bb: I don’t even know if I even want to watch it.

  71. Kim: I am predictable at least.

  72. SOD,

    Wouldn’t that be great? And if they listened to Hillary, we might actually get something that does something for ordinary Americans, rather than handing over the treasury to the fat cats on Wall Street.

  73. WiWag, I don’t believe you. Sorry. It will cost me plenty in terms of infrastructure and services. You are just looking at what people pay in, not what they also get for that money.

    And to answer the question you keep asking, yes, I am comfortable with that risk. Of course, I’m not an idiot with a bank account at a corporate bank anyway. I bank locally, and my credit union will do just fine because it is a highly regulated financial sector, thanks to the S&L crisis of the 80s.

    You’re talking to a wall here. Do you have a retirement fund you’re trying to salvage or something? Money in the markets, perchance?

  74. Well said, Anna Belle. I agree with you,

  75. Anna Belle: You speak for me as well.

  76. McCain is still pandering to PUMAs. Good for him.

  77. And yeah, I know about Hillary’s plan, but I only support part of it. I don’t support a double bail out, which is what her plan is. I support the HOLC, but not the Wall Street bail out. She’s dead wrong on that. My opinion, of course.

  78. Oh! (blushes) You’re welcome BB and Pat! Glad to see I’m not alone….

  79. I have to say that if Paulsen is getting down on his knees, then there is something we don’t know here – and it probably has nothing to do with the banks directly.

    This is just like the ramp up to the war. When they don’t have something real and they want to do something, they crank up the santimonious hysteria to 11 and count on the noise to carry it through.

    Paulsen getting on his knees means Paulsen personally has something to lose and I don’t think it’s money.

    None of this had made any sense to me from the get go (and yes, I understand the mechanics to what’s transpiring well enough), but with this drop of information, we now know that there is something else entirely playing out here that the financial meltdown is concealing.

    I’ll be so glad when these jokers are gone.

  80. I predict that a lot of house cleaning is going to get done today. The weather in Metro NY is as about as gloomy as I’ve ever seen.

    I support Hillary’s judgement. But I agree with bostonboomer – the entire thing is out of my hands. You reach a point where you feel powerless, and then it’s hopless. I can allow myself to feel powerless for today, but then I have to get my fighting spirit back.

    It’s especially hard for my pyschologically because I don’t see good guys vs. bad guys. The Democratic brand is dead to me. Obama has killed it.

    Today dust bunnies, tomorrow the world!

  81. Yeah, that’s it – the meltdown of the banks is being used to conceal something else that this administration has done, is doing or wants to do. LOL That’s too mindboggling, but it’s true or they wouldn’t be acting like this.

    I can’t wait for the book on this. somebody is up to no good.

  82. Anna Belle – I agree with you too, if that makes any difference.

    It might cheer me up, and help the economy, if I go out and buy some new Swiffer dusters. Maybe lavender scented.

  83. Admittedly, I don’t even know if this is not just a “serious” issue or a “catastrophic” crisis. They have lied and lied to us so much over the years that it is difficult to sort through the truth from the lies. I feel like I have been robbed but am expected to bail the burglar out of jail at the same time.

    At this point, my vote is one of no confidence in anybody.

  84. There will be no bank runs. Banks are FDIC protected. Brokerages are not, which is how we got in this mess in the first place. The notion that 40% of the country is living scott free is laughable. Quarentine the bad mortgages. You don’t have to socialize the entire financial sector. There is a lot not to like in this deal. “Limit” CEO compensation? Limit how? By how much? Yes, I can see where some liquidity is needed. But, I am not sold lock, stock and barrel, on a complete socialization of the financial and credit sectors. And no, right now I have little trust that anyone aside from hillary is looking out for the little guy. Why no HOLC NOW? Hell, Krugman isn’t even convinced this is necessary.

  85. “I bank locally, and my credit union will do just fine because it is a highly regulated financial sector, thanks to the S&L crisis of the 80s. ”

    That is completely wrong. All banks and credit unions (including your local bank) lend out most of the money that you have deposited there. When you or others go to the cash machine to get money or write a check or withdraw money from a teller, the bank frequently doesn’t have enough money on hand unless they can borrow money from another bank. It doesn’t matter whether you have a local bank or an interrnational bank. It works the same way.

    If you local bank can’t borrow money from other banks when they need it, they can’t honor the checks you write and they can’t let you withdraw cash.

    Without this bail out banks won’t be able to lend to other banks and you won’t be able to get your money,

    And if you are relying on FDIC insurance, forget it. The FDIC is dramtically undercapitalized. Given the massive deficits we are facing right now, if there was a bank run, the only way to recapitalize the FDIC would be by printing money. Which would make money worth far less.

    If you think being in a local bank protects you, you are sadly mistaken.

  86. Awesome, Arabella. You do your part, lady. Myself, I’m just waiting for the close of business today to see if they pass this behemoth. If they don’t, I’m thinking I might drive over to D.C. this weekend and make sure I’m waiting for them when they come to work on Monday.

  87. Krugman says Paulson plan is NDG

    He’s another person I trust on these issues.


  88. sod – Lavendar scents always work for me. I don’t use any spray type products, but I love my Swiffer dusters.

  89. As all this financial meltdown crap goes down, I get madder than ever at the DNC, at Obama, and at Obama fans – they bear some responsibility for putting us in this horrific position. We could have had a candidate who can deal with the economy. A candidate who could beat McCain. A president who knows history, understands the economy, and more.

    Instead, we are presented with this nasty choice – Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin. I don’t want ANY of them to be anywhere near the White House! And as for all the hollering about Palin, if Hillary were our presidential candidate there is no way in hell that McCain would have picked Palin. Obama has himself to blame for that one.

  90. masslib, FDIC insurance is worthless if there is a bank run.

    Look even if the Paulson plan isn’t passed, maybe this will all work itself out. Anyone who is older than 50 and would like to contemplate retiring before they are 80 would be foolish to take the risk.

  91. I hope you all realize, your 401K eben if purchased through a bank is not backed or protected by the FDIC. But your money at the bank, is.

  92. The bail out itself will make money worth far less, duh! My bak account is well under the federally insured limit, so however worthless money is, I will still have mine.

    You haven’t answered my question. Are you protecting assets? If not, I’d like to know the source of your authorit-ie (h/t to Cartman).

  93. Are there any pictures of Paulson begging Nancy on his knees 😉

  94. WigWag, that’s BS. I think people are mixing up traditional banking, backed by the FDIC, with financial products like 401K’s, which are not.

  95. state, that was not to you, but wigwag.

  96. Myiq: Congratulations on your banishment from TL. I know you’ve been looking forward to it for some time and it seems both ironic yet not that you were banished for stating a simple truth.

    In case I can’t make it to the Confluence cocktail party tonight, I made an arrangement with Rico and your first drink’s on me.

  97. Exactly, masslib. Methinks ther’s some deilberate obfuscation going on in an effort to protect some assets.

  98. Wigwag – I’m 56 and I will have to work until the day I die. I just lost my job and am looking for another one. I have no debt and I own my home. My biggest expense is health care.

    And I’m scared shit, I don’t mind saying.

    What do you expect me to do? Attack DC with my Swiffer? I’m a tired old woman.

  99. Krugman doesn’t like Paulson’s plan, specially the “no review” part, but he does think something needs to be done, right? (Or am I wrong?)

  100. WigWag, you are totally wrong about the FDIC. That is why Bill Clinton and others support Goldman Sachs applying to be traditional banks, because they are VOLUNTARILY asking to be regulated and in return are FDIC backed.

  101. FDIC insures up to $100,000 in the bank

  102. McCain needs to hustle his ass down to Oxford, MS today. Otherwise, the MSM on behalf of Sen. Do Nothing will turn this into an Obama win. No matter the intent on McCain’s part, he needs to be there if he wishes to make his case. This debate has been heavily hyped and seeing Obama alone on a stage will only harden the resolve that he is merely grandstanding.

    Obama must not win. From any vantage point, this guy is clueless.

  103. sofiaNY, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:58 am Said:
    FDIC insures up to $100,000 in the bank

    Each account.

  104. Krugman, along with most everybody else, thinks this is a real crisis.

    What to do about it is the question.

  105. WigWag: from the little I know about you I think I understand where you’re coming from. If you listened to Conflucians Say last night, you would have heard commenter Kat talked about this very issue. Yes, the situaltion is urgent but the world will not end if they don’t hammer out a deal today. We need to take the time to do it right or we will not have the time to do it over.

    BTW, I am sitting in my dentist’s waiting room listening to his receptionist get tough with a guy who has $700 left on his root canal bill left over since last year. Ironically, the guy is a casualty of the mortgage meltdown. He says he just doesn’t have $200 a month fir three months. And these dentists are the most understanding people in the world

  106. From memroy — I think it’s $100,000 per depositor per bank — so if you have two accounts under your name, it gets added up. But if you have one account under your name and another as a joint account those are treated separately.

  107. As usual, Bush sounds like the idiot we know he is.

  108. Arabella Trefoil, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:57 am

    You often speak for me! LOL! But Wig has some points too. I just wish Hill had a big ruler she could wack people with until they behave and do their damn job! Can you tell I was taught by nuns?

  109. Do the research masslib and Sofia, the FDIC currently has $50 billion in assets. There are trillions of dollars on deposit in banks, savings and loans and credit unions.

    The $50 billion in assets would disappear in a heart beat if there was a serious bank run. The only way to replenish the money would be for the government to print money. That’s what they did in Weimer Germany 75 years ago and Zimbabwe, last year. It makes money worthless.

    The FDIC doesn’t have enough money to protect you. Confidence in the system is what protects you.

    If confidence disappears, whatever money you have will be gone.

    Anyway, let’s all hope for the best.

    Got to run.

    I’ve enjoyed chatting with you.

  110. Riverdaughter, I hope you are right and I am wrong. And I hope the dentist is gentle!

  111. After watching Bush the other night (I had no choice, he was holding the season premiere of Criminal Minds hostage), I had the distinct impression that this plan/deal/whatever was about keeping international investors from pulling out en-masse.

  112. paper doll: That is just what Hillary reminded me of: one of the nuns I had who made learning a joy since she was able to translate the teaching into an experience rather than a chore. Since you made the analogy, I realized that she reminded me of a nun who taught me in 10th grade. She cut to the chase and created an opening.

  113. RD:

    I agree. I can’t realistically see a panic on Wall Street come Monday if the gov’t is working on some kind of bailout.

    Why would they take a huge loss when they know Uncle sugar will save their butts?

    Now if it was announced that there would be no bailout, watch for falling bodies.

  114. WigWag, I am sorry but this deal has nothing in it for the majority of americans. You are talking about socializing the f’ing financial sector, there had better be something more in it for the little guy! I realize the sky is falling, but this deal smells bad.

  115. Riverdaughter, if you can hear the receptionist talking to another patient about the specific services they had, that receptionist is violating HIPAA regulations regarding patient privacy. That carries a far larger fine than the $700 she’s trying to get out of him. I’m just sayin’. 😉

  116. I agree with you RD. I think it’s time for a little Congressional Overtime. I want to see these folks at work next week, and I want them to take the time to do it right and explain it in terms average Americans can understand. Until they do that, I’ll keep up my protest. Stopping them is all I care about today.

  117. Good point, Cindy.

  118. Pat Johnson, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:06 am Said:
    ….. She cut to the chase and created an opening…

    good way to put it….and I think we discovered why Hill has the RC vote locked up! lol!

  119. Pat wrote: “They have lied and lied to us so much over the years that it is difficult to sort through the truth from the lies. I feel like I have been robbed but am expected to bail the burglar out of jail at the same time.”

    Amen sister!!

  120. This financial meltdown has been simmering for years yet we are supposed to rush a solution in three days? Without a clue as to whom it helps or the other machinations attached to it? They lie, lie, lie and expect us to just eat it with a spoon.

  121. I will add that wigwag refuses to acknowledge is that a 700 Billion dollar bailout will itself be a printing of unsupported money, as much if not more than an FDIC crisis would be. I’d rather have that happen as regulations steps in than when regulation steps out.

  122. CNN is just reporting that the FDIC is already involved with one bank.

  123. FDIC:
    Deposits up to $100,000 per depositer per insured bank.

    Up to 250,000 for retirement account per owner per insured bank

    Does not include stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc.

    FDIC does NOT insure US treasury bills & bonds which are backed by the US government

  124. Washington Mutual…

  125. Pat Johnson, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:01 am Said:

    As usual, Bush sounds like the idiot we know he is.

    Pat, sometimes you really make me laugh. I know this is serious as serious gets, but you do do have a way of saying it.

  126. SOD,

    That is exactly what I think. This is the final act in the play. Bushco came into office with every intention of finishing the job Reagan started–robbing the treasury and shipping all our money overseas. When they’re finished, we will all be serfs. Doesn’t anyone remember how they sent planeloads of cash to Iraq with no accounting for what happened to it?

    I. Don’t. Trust. Them.

    And that includes Democrats like Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, and Harry Reid.

  127. Check out this post on corrente “The Crisis Explained”

  128. Question, just wondering if anyone knows? What is the US dollar backed by?

  129. Oh, and I know, just making sure we are all on the same page.

  130. Speaking for myself: anytime I see Nancy Pelosi “pushing” for anything, I have to step back and question just what the hell is going on. This is the same Nancy Pelosi who has presented us with a Barack Obama nomination, the same Nancy Pelosi who took impeachment off the table, the same Nancy Pelosi who has put her imprematur to every Bush proposal.

    When it comes to Nancy Pelosi, I say “beware”.

  131. No, Anna. TRUST. That’s it.

  132. I thought it was cocaine

  133. IMO, I think the bailout with oversight will boost investor & consumer confidence in the economy again. At the very least it will put the brakes on the loosers in Washington with respect to spending. The spending is out of control.

    There are 2 ways to balance a budget…increase income (from taxes) or decrease spending. Unfortunately, our party of democrats always go for increase in taxes!

  134. Well, tecnically that’s true, mass, but as long as oil is traded in dollars, as opposed to other currency, it does have the effect of propping up the dollar.

    CNN reports BREAKING: congressional leaders not going to meet. Press conference at 10:30!

  135. The poor guy in the dentist office who is being browbeaten by the receptionist should just tell her to forward his balance to Wall Street since they are almost guaranteed that their expenses will be paid in full by congress.

  136. It USED to be gold, sod.

  137. Not since Nixon, State. In God We Trust. Pull out a dollar. It’s there.

  138. It ain’t oil. It’s trust. Econ 101.

  139. You mean Ron Paul 101. Hehe. (kidding!)

  140. Look who’s acting like a leader (it’s not Obama):

    At today’s cabinet meeting, John McCain did not attack any proposal or endorse any plan. John McCain simply urged that for any proposal to enjoy the confidence of the American people, stressing that all sides would have to cooperate and build a bipartisan consensus for a solution that protects taxpayers.

    However, the Democrats allowed Senator Obama to run their side of the meeting. That did not work as the meeting quickly devolved into a contentious shouting match that did not seek to craft a bipartisan solution.

    Tomorrow, John McCain will return to Capitol Hill where he will work with all sides to build a bipartisan solution that protects taxpayers and keeps Americans in their homes.

  141. Did Barack leave a wake up call?

  142. state, I said that. It’s trust.

  143. Oh, funny! You know what I was just reminded of? Remember in one of the Douglass Adams Hitchiker Trillogy (in four or five parts, I forget) how the people of a certain planet used leaves from trees as money? I always loved that scene as the most honest account of what money actually represented…

  144. However, the Democrats allowed Senator Obama to run their side of the meeting. That did not work as the meeting quickly devolved into a contentious shouting match that did not seek to craft a bipartisan solution.

    hey I thought Barry was gonna bring us together??snark

  145. masslib, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:14 am Said:

    No, Anna. TRUST. That’s it.

    I think masslib is right. In the US banknotes say that the note is legal tender for all debts public or private. In England the banknotes say that the Queen (= Bankk of England) promises to pay the bearer the sum indicated on the banknote. With what? Gold? No – another bank note – another promise. Nowadays banks do not deal in bank notes. Their money symbols ae encoded in digital accounts. They are symbolic of a promise, of trust. When the trust in the promise is broken money has no basis, no value. That, IMHO, signals a massive breakdown in the social structure.

  146. Anna Belle: Get it quick! Here in NE the leaves are beginning to turn (beautiful NE in the Fall!) and will be falling soon.

  147. No, I don’t mean Ron Paul. I am being totally serious. The dollar is backed by trust in the dollar.

  148. SOD: For me, that would be a walk down Memory Lane!

  149. paper doll:

    I don’t have the cite (or site) but that was Barry’s argument why he should be Preznit – he could bring everyone together and get them to agree.

  150. It annoys me that the media is accusing McCain of breaking the deal. The truth is, because the bailout is so unpopular, the GOP congresscritters are afraid to sign on to it.

  151. I concede masslib is right, ftr.

    But I also think that oil is currently propping the dollar up, which is different than supporting it. If oil switched to Euros, what do you think would happen to our economy? I think it’s coming, personally…

    So I concede my assertion was based on sloppy terminology. Thanks for the info masslib.

    Switching topics here: What I want to know is how the get-rich-quick property schemes of the late 90s and early 2000s play into this housing crisis. How many of these defaulters are defaulting on property that is not their primary domicile? Those people should crash and burn for their careless and reckless risk-taking, IMO>

  152. myiq2xu, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    Exactly and it’s the first thing ( and often, the only thing ) out of obots mouths about WHY they are supporting this back stabbing bowl of mush

  153. masslib,

    According to Paul Krugman’s blog last week, if you bought three month Treasury bills, you got NEGATIVE interest. That is what’s backing up our currency at this point. The believe that treasuries are a good, solid, safe investment. Negative interest rates are not a good investment.

  154. masslib — The FDIC insures retirement accounts (such as 401(k)s & IRAs) up to $250,000. So, a person can have $100,000 insured in checking/savings accounts plus $250,000 insured in a retirement account.

  155. I was just joking about Ron Paul, masslib. He is the guy who has been talking about this particular aspect of our economy for forever.

  156. Anna Belle, I agree. The fact that oil is priced at dollars is what keeps it up.

  157. Here’s something nobody else has seemed to notice:

    News arrives that the Democrats are blaming something called “the House Republicans” for the failure of the Democratic majority in both the House and the Senate from closing a deal with the White House this afternoon (left) for the $700 Billion bailout of Wall Street.

    This is all hilarious and delightful. How does this sound? The Republican minority in the House is the villain because it will not obey the White House and the Treasury and Nancy Pelosi. Try that again. The minority in the House won’t pass a bill? How does the minority pass anything? Mrs. Pelosisi has 230 plus votes. She can pass anything she wants, and she does routinely, from opposing the war with reckless underfunding to proposing a sham energy drilling bill. Anything the Democratic majority wants, it gets. So how is it that the Democrats can’t pass the bailout? Why does Majority Leader Steny Hoyer say that he needs an unspecified number of Republican votes when in fact he needs none?


  158. so obama is leaving to mississipi and mccain is staying in washington


  159. PS — It’s important to note that the $100K or $250K is per depositor per bank. So if you have over that amount, you need to have it in another bank.

  160. Part of this mess rests with those who advertised: No income, no down payment, no credit standing, no job, no prospects? Come on down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have a deal for you!!!!!!!!!!!

  161. They are blaming McCain because Frank is running around in a snit because a guy who presumably may need to take over in 4 months time is weighing in on his opinion. May I say that Frank gets the putz of the day award. I’m glad McCain is paying attention and I STILL don’t want this bailout.

  162. Speaking for myself: anytime I see Nancy Pelosi “pushing” for anything, I have to step back and question just what the hell is going on. This is the same Nancy Pelosi who has presented us with a Barack Obama nomination, the same Nancy Pelosi who took impeachment off the table, the same Nancy Pelosi who has put her imprematur to every Bush proposal.

    When it comes to Nancy Pelosi, I say “beware”.


    Nancy Should never be trusted.

  163. SOD,

    The gold standard was dropped many years ago.

  164. I am willing to bet that half the people that post here are like me. I work, I pay my bills. If I have to chose between the dentist payment or my car payment, it will be the car payment so I can got work.

    I have tried to do everything the way I have been told. I have a small savings account with enough to get by three months if I lose my job. I have two retirement accounts with $100,000 in one and $30k in another. These are deposit accounts that I set up by cash deposit (ex-husband settlements).

    I have no credit cards and owe no one.

    If all hell breaks loose, I will eat PBJ and turkey sandwiches. I have extra bedrooms, so my family can bunk with me, if this hits them extra hard. I refuse to let this drive me mad. My family survived one depression and if it happens again, I will just hunker down and survive another one.

  165. paper doll:

    Please don’t insult bowls of mush

  166. Where or where is Joe Biden?

  167. FOX reporting that 6.6 Billion dollars worth of earmarks in the current fiscal bill. Does anyone know if this a seperate bill from the bailout? Is the regular funding bill?

    Here’s an idea…how about all of these politicians refund corporate donations and deduct that amount from the bill they will almost surely pass….

  168. Anna Belle, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:27 am Said:
    But I also think that oil is currently propping the dollar up, which is different than supporting it. If oil switched to Euros…….

    There is speculation that Iraq turning to Euros played a large part in dictating the timing of the war. That had to be stopped , or we would go down the tubes. Since we don’t make anything any more….all we have is the world’s oil is counted in dollars. An accountant friend once said money was an agreed upon fiction…..Why happened when we don’t agree?

  169. O’Biden is collecting 54 million in earmarks that bill, that’s where he is. Socking it to the people of everywhere but Deleware…

  170. RealKim:

    You look different today.

  171. Kim: You just described most of us to a T.

  172. Let ’em fail…lawmakers and banks alike.

    This soap opera is getting boring and we are not getting the truth.

  173. myiq2xu, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:29 am Said:

    “Why does Majority Leader Steny Hoyer say that he needs an unspecified number of Republican votes when in fact he needs none?”


    myiq2xu, do you think it’s the “bipartisan” thing?

  174. I was taught by the Ursuline nuns. Believe me, they would not put up with this ridiculous nonsense for one minute.

    Just went out to pick up my prescriptions. People are walking around in the streets talking on cell phones and drinking coffee. The banks are open, the Korean deli is selling flowers. In other words, the good people of White Plains are acting the way they usually do.

    Now I’m going to make some chicken soup and start getting my head together.


  175. We need to pushback on the framing that McCain is the one in the wrong if he doesn’t show up tonight. We need to push that the real leader is not the one who sits on the stage a reads the proverbial pet goat story but the one who goes to DC to fix the problems. Furthermore, Pelosi needs to go. I agree with the above poster that she is toxic to our cause(a responsible and accountable government).

  176. That thing about Paulson kneeling before Pelosi bothers me. She is reported to have said “I didn’t know that you were Catholic”. Now, Catholics kneel before God–Nancy has been around the Messiah tooo long , now she thinks that his ‘glow’ is rubbing off on her!!!

  177. myiq2xu: “Barry’s argument why he should be Preznit – he could bring everyone together and get them to agree.”


    Barry apparently envisioned the process being similar to what he did as President of the Harvard Law Review. Can we please send him back to Chicago and let Hillary take over?


  178. I had hear the Chinese banks are no longer allowed to invest in American financial products. Will other countries follow suit? Any bail out without strong regulatory policies is doomed to failure because there will be no confidence that it won’t happen again.

  179. Honora,

    He got down on one knee in front of Nancy. I think she was trying to make a joke about genuflecting. But she has no sense of humor, and so it fell flat.

  180. myiq, I didn’t log in from my site, my avatar changes unless I do. Is this better?

  181. TheRealKim, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:31 am

    Your post could be my biography. I would almost welcome a crash to teach these ba*ds a lesson.

  182. I want bad risk-takers punished to the fullest extent.

    Congress can certainly get more voter support for the bailout if they include specific language on accountability. But they don’t want to (or maybe they are scared to) demand accountability from the fat cats who have given them so much money.

  183. I was taught by the Sisters of St. Joseph. Tough ladies. I remember one nun hanging a boy in the cloakroom from a peg for a full period for acting up in class. This same nun would hang most of congress from pegs in their cloakroom given a chance. No excuses offered.

  184. Arabella — I was taught by Dominican nuns! They wouldn’t have put up with this either!

  185. Kim – by Wednesday I may need a loan. How fast can you cash out?

  186. votermom, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:29 am Said:

    Anna Belle, I agree. The fact that oil is priced at dollars is what keeps it up.

    votermom, I agree. And that Venezuela, for example, now trades in Euros does undermine the value of the dollar. Oil is probably keeping the value of the dollar up. But the value, as I see it, is not the basis for money. The basis is ultimately trust. Money is symbolic,and in and of itself has no value at all if people do not trust that it has.

    Unsurprisingly, there has to be a reasonably agree upon social pact based on trust in certain symbols, for society to function at all. Wall Street, in its greed, has betrayed that trust. I see, though I know others out there wouldn’t, BO as part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    Hillary, as we all know, knows a way forward, she foresaw this mess, and she had, and has, a plan. Sad to say, no one else seemed to want to listen to a “mere woman”, who was “attractive enough” but ultimately “shrill”. If Hillary was shrill, what are the current bleatings of Harry Reid?

  187. Big Pimpin’ Democrat is spinning furiously


    Being banned from TL means I not only can’t comment, I also can’t read comments.

    Unless I switch to my other computer.

  188. Creeper,

    Hasn’t Wall Street for years been telling Main Street to suck it up when they were busy saying that sending jobs overseas was “good?” Didn’t they say that those people should run out and find a new occupation now that their old ones were “obsolete.” Here’s to a whole bunch of investment bankers join the ranks of manufactureres for their bright and shiny career at MickeyDs(with the second job at Walmart). It’s pull theirselves up by their bootstrap time. Perhaps now we can have a real discussion on minimum wage and who exactly deserves to make a livable wage.

  189. McCain is going to have to show up at the debate. It didn’t work well at all well Jimmy Carter stayed in Washington to work and skipped a debate. Reagan used it to his advantage.

    Of course Obama might blow it completely. Does anyone really think he wants to take questions from the audience? It wouldn’t be acceptable for me for it to go forward unless he does. An interview with Jim Lehrer is not a legitimate presidential forum.

  190. Honora — Pelosi doesn’t think she is god — she thinks she is the Virgin Mary — the Mother of God — because she “created” BO.

  191. Shumer just told McCain to get out of town.

    This coming from the man who started a run on the banks a few weeks ago with his big mouth.

    These people have to go!!!!!!!!!!!!

  192. Sisters of the Good Shepherd here! Tough and then some. Some are still role models for me to this day. Intelligent, no-nonsense, let’s get to the business of work,which is helping others, kinda ladies. The order was started by a poor-woman-turned-nun in France.

  193. Exactly SOD, you buy what you can afford and if you lose it, tough. It took three times to the car dealership to get my car. I told them what I could afford and they just kept trying to get me to go higher, because according to them I could afford so much more. No one knows my lifestyle or what I can afford better than I do.

    BTW, I got my car and the payment I expected. They won’t fuck with me again.

  194. bostonboomer- I understood the reference, my point was that since Catholics only kneel or genuflect before God–Nancy has a high opinion of herself. Guess my joke fell just as flat.

  195. U.S. federal agents say they have enough evidence to indict Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich for fraud and conspiracy http://countusout.wordpress.com
    Is Rezko cooperating is Obama next?

  196. Angie-LOL

  197. RealKim:

    Much better. I thought you were having a really bad hair day

  198. Ok — where do I go to find my user profile so I can upload my own avatar?

  199. I am more than willing to drive McCain to Mississippi if need be! And we all know I hate highway driving. But he needs to be there. Period. Don’t give Reid and Pelosi any ground here. Go! Go! Go!

  200. Exactly Carol,

    This little play isn’t about the American people, it’s about power for a select few in the Democratic parety. I am disgusted that I ever thought these people had our interests at heart.

  201. The financial sector and the government overseers who were supposed to properly supervise have taken a “I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today” stance for so long, they forgot someday it would actually be Tuesday. So, it’s Tuesday already, but I have never experienced panic as a positive in decision making, and a bad deal made at break-neck speed now is not going to help for long. I really don’t need a cure more toxic than the disease, especially when it means my progeny for umpteen generations are pre-emptively screwed.

  202. Wouldn’t it be EPIC if McCain just showed up, like, 20 minutes late? I would have to howl at the fiction, the fiction! The Power of Narrative!

    I might almost fall into politics as if it where a novel…

  203. Anybody else remember when Alan Greenspan urged homeowners to trade in their fixed mortgages for ARMs? Yet we have to listen to his vapid wife pontificate about this crisis? AYFKM?
    I’m sorry that WigWag had to go. Wig seems to know a great deal about this and I was learning a lot. I’m for the bailout-in stages-with some very serious adjustments: HOLC to re-negotiate mortgages on primary domiciles only, immediate freeze on Wall Street retirement and severance packages and bonues, twenty per cent cut in top executive salaries and complete transparency with the Treasury Secretary being held accountable at every step.

  204. Pat

    I’d like to see him hit back. He belongs in Washington. I’d like to see him hit Nancy and Schumer for scuttling an important discussion so the precious could do his little job interview uninterrupted. Screw them.

  205. Wouldn’t it be EPIC if McCain just showed up, like, 20 minutes late?
    I was just thinking that, earlier! McCain should do a fashionably late appearance. Obama would be so annoyed. Hee.

  206. Video of House republican Thaddeus McCotter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNlXgzzdJQA

  207. For an alternative view of yesterday’s clusterf*ck:


    (I find it disorienting that I have to read winger blogs to be sure I am getting the truth)

  208. Oh, phone it in! I bet that’s what happens. I didn’t think of that, SOD! I had read a mean piece yesterday about how McCain fears HDTV. I don’t believe for a second that’s true, but I also don’t pretend I can know one way or the other. If it IS true, phoning it in would be a brilliant strategy!

  209. I haven’t gone to TalkLeft in a while. Theire objective is different from mine at this point. We’ll see after the election if I ever feel like joining a coalition that gave Obama power(if that is the case) or allowed democracy to be usurped. I do like BTD even if he does do some spinning from time to time.

  210. For those who were enriched off war profiteering, and those who enriched themselves during this financial crisis, let them do the “perp walk”. This might drive up my confidence once again. Where is Patrick Fitzgerald? We need him now.

  211. CWaltz, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    I see LOTS of fury about this when I ride the bus…that’s where working class America hangs out .. Usually the good folks on the bus are too tired to notice the news. But they are furious!! They are busting a gut trying to keep the lights on and fed by cutting fudge at the Mall , but Wall st is simply handed 700 Billion? The upper crust will wake up a tiger with this endless greed.

  212. Sorry, Honora. I didn’t mean my comment to come across that way. I got your point. With all the botox, could Nancy qualify as a “graven image?”

    BTW, CNN just reported that John McCain has left the capital and headed for his campaign office in VA. At least he’s the center of attention. Has anyone heard what Obama is doing? Is he still sleeping or what?

  213. BREAKING: Ole Miss officials saying that they have indications that both candidates will show up….

  214. For people who arestill undecided, think about this…at a time of crises in our economy, Pelosi and Reid snuck in the ACORN $140,000,000,000. clause, as a bit of “minutae”. With a President in their pockets, what else will they do to us? This election isn’t just about who is in the White House, it is about who is leading the legislative branch. We had better have someone in Washington who can keep a lid on them or we are all in deep doo doo.

  215. SOD: I was a little more forceful, if you want the damn commission then get me what I want for the payment I want. It is here, now get it or I will go elsewhere. I have finally decided that it is okay (after last divorce) for me to buy a house and I will play tough again. I am not going to attempt to play the status game. I want a nice comfy little house. I don’t understand for the life of me, needing a thousand square foot per person. Like Pat, I am the cleaning lady at my house. Screw four thousand square feet.

  216. Reid and Dodd on Fox

  217. Patrick Fitzgerald is preparing the indictment of Gov. Blogojevich of Illionois, Pat.

    Press confernece on NOW! Harry Reid up first…

  218. CWaltz, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:41 am Said:

    Hasn’t Wall Street for years been telling Main Street to suck it up when they were busy saying that sending jobs overseas was “good?” Didn’t they say that those people should run out and find a new occupation now that their old ones were “obsolete.” Here’s to a whole bunch of investment bankers join the ranks of manufactureres for their bright and shiny career at MickeyDs(with the second job at Walmart). It’s pull theirselves up by their bootstrap time. Perhaps now we can have a real discussion on minimum wage and who exactly deserves to make a livable wage

    CWaltz, only when the Ship of State hits an iceberg, do the fat cats realize we’re all in the same boat and yell, “Bail, bail.”

  219. You know who we need at a time like this?
    Someone who is “good at is getting people in a room with a bunch of different ideas who sometimes violently disagree with each other and finding common ground and a sense of common direction.”
    Someone who is what Obama claims to be. Phbbttt.

    McCain met with Boehner & other Republicans, now they have picked Roy Blount to represent the GOP. It looks like McCain is making them deal.

  220. Overtime! They’re talking Overtime! YES!

  221. Yes, let’s give more to ACORN! Since they are under investigation in several states right now for voter fraud, they must need the help. Oh and guess who their attorney was at one time? Barack Obama!!!!

  222. I disagree with several elements of your version of events particulary “This is a set up and trap by the Republicans to hang the whole stinky mess around the Democrats’ necks:”. First, Democrat and Republican leaders, as well as a few lesser players in the MSM, have admitted that there never was any deal. The Dem leaders and a few Senate Reblicans without authority over the House members announced a deal, but that doesn’t make it so. There has been an admission, and McCain said it before he suspended that the House R were not on board. If you read up and listen to comments, most Americans, including the one that the R House members are hearing from, do not want this bailout. Certainly if the Dem leaders thought this bailout was the right thing and absolutely required they would not need the Rebulicans to get on board. But the Dems are not going to risk any politcal fallout anymore then the Republicans. Anglachel hates Republicans based on past actions and immediately assumes anything they do is evil and suspect. That a member of the House might actually think this deal is bad for American is simply outside her realm of possiblities. She would believe Pelosi and Frank who want to fund ACORN over any Republican even those she doesn’t know anything about.

    Second, if you had been watching, Wall Street has been holding their collective hands out for Fed favors for a year, and getting them every time. A few days of up tick on the market after getting the favor and then back down again with Wall Street demanding more favors. This latest 700B demand is just more of the same.

    Finally, the one thing that should have been evident to anyone observing these events is that Obama is irrelevent here. No one is looking to him to provide leadership. He is being treated, just as he is, as junior senator. He is clearly a puppet.

  223. BB

    He’s probably pouting somewhere because McCain is getting attention. The precious gets jealous when HIS limelight is stolen. Does he remind anyone else of an overgrown toddler?

  224. More bullshit charges of presidential politics. Bad argument, mofos!

  225. Oh Lord help us! Whiney Harry Reid is on giving Obama credit for wanting to include help for the public in the bill. I guess he must mean the ACORN giveaway.

  226. Oh shit! If Obama has lost Matt Stoller he’s in deep doo-doo:

    One thing to note is just how wankerous the Democratic leaders including Obama are being in this crisis. I’m glad McCain and the House GOP blew up this deal, and frankly, the notion that Obama is acting like an adult by wanting to give $700B to Wall Street is nauseatingly stupid.


  227. This bill better not pass at midnight tonight. I swear to God. I’ve read the declaration of INdependence. I know what to do.

  228. OMG – They are dissing McCain. Now Dodd said they needed a decent night of sleep.

    I haven’t slept since January 3, 2008. When I sleep, they can sleep. Besides, they will have a lot of time to sleep in prison or retirement where they belong.

  229. RD — you never cease to amaze me with your wit !! Thank you !!

  230. Personally,

    I think this was why Wall Street was pushing for everyone’s Social Security money. This is all some big ponzi scheme for them. They feel so entitled that they feel it is their right to play with other people’s money.

  231. Reid fawns over Obama and criticizes McCain. Boo hiss. Wasn’t it he who said there shouldn’t be pres. politics in this?

    Dodd: “This was a man-made avoidable problem.” Yeah, and you were in charge of the committee that was supposed to be in charge of avoiding this!

  232. Dodd is speaking in high dudgeon! Chris, clean up your own mess. Your hands are not exactly clean here.

  233. No, no, myiq, pay attention. 😀 Stoller ALWAYS comes out telling something close to the truth, then he gets his Obama talking points from the Markos Zombies, and he walks it back. This is just round one before the walk back.

  234. myiq2xu,

    What are the o-bot commenters saying to Stoller? Are they going to tar and feather him and run him out of town on a rail?

  235. SimoFish: Congratulations!

  236. SweetSue, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:47 am Said:
    Anybody else remember when Alan Greenspan urged homeowners to trade in their fixed mortgages for ARMs? Yet we have to listen to his vapid wife pontificate about this crisis? AYFKM?

    A great deal is at Greenspan’s door step. He cheer lead every wrong move by Bush and co. for years , with his signing off and advocating each wrong move and , well that was all the vetting anyone needed right?
    Greenspan says it’s okay! Full speed ahead! The Wall St people who designed this knew what they were doing all along. We are in a kabuki stand off between those who are bought off by Wall St and those who still care about congress and the voters mattering. If there were no strings, Congress would not be bailing out Wall St as much as Wall St taking / buying out over Congress

  237. They are getting lost in the “We won’t let them take credit from us!” argument. It will lose for them. Petty bitches.

  238. OMG, Chris please go to bed. You’re ruining daylight for the rest of us.

  239. For the record: Greenspan is supporting Obama. That’s like pushing cyanide over Mountain Dew for the picnic refreshment.

  240. CWaltz: I think this was why Wall Street was pushing for everyone’s Social Security money. This is all some big ponzi scheme for them. They feel so entitled that they feel it is their right to play with other people’s money.


    That is exactly what I think. And Obama is the trojan horse they were sending to get the social security money under their control. He may still try to do it if he is elected. We have to prevent him from taking power.

  241. paper doll, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:52 am Said:

    IThe upper crust will wake up a tiger with this endless greed

    Oh paper doll, I hope that you are right, but how many times have we said that?
    And if there is a Revolution, will the Media cover it?

  242. I want Dodd’s Iowa house to become the symbol for mortgage crisis corruption.

    They are playing this press conference all wrong. I should be glad, but I’m not. I want effective politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle, damn it, not on neither side.

  243. Annabele

    The idea that the person who will be taking over in 4 months time shouldn’t be involved in a decision that will span throughout his presidency(and several presidencies thereafter in all likelihood) and is a hinderance to the process is absurd. McCain and Obama belong in DC. What occurs now will have a huge impact, much moreso than some stupid debate that will be culled for campaign commercials. I agree with Bush and McCain(has hell frozen over because I didn’t think I’d say Bush was right about anything).

  244. Reid is lying like a dirty bird.

  245. How can any one of us believe any one of them?

  246. Jeeze Louise. Harry Reid sounds like a whiney third grader.

  247. Vote on SUNDAY???

  248. I thought Reid left last week to put his head back into the sand!

  249. What is kind of amusing is that all the Obamabloggers are in high dudgeon mode but they aren’t even sure what they are pissed off about.

  250. This is blatantly partisan. How can they even look at themselves?

  251. No, my head is in the sand so I don’t have to listen to anymore. Reid’s head is stuck up his ass. Big difference!

  252. CWaltz, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:59 am

    It’s also the result of Wall St not getting SS. If they don’t have an activite bubble swindle going, modern Wall St cannot function. If they couldn’t steal SS pretending it will be “good” for the average person ( LOL! ) , they have decided to come in the back door.
    BTW This hurry hurry is the first sign I have seen that lets me believe Bush may indeed be leaving ! lol!

  253. paperdoll, I suspect there are shades of SS in this, too.

  254. How did this fool get elected Majority Leader?

  255. Keep bitching Reid, because tonight McCain is going to clear it up on National TV.

    You are all going down with Names, Dates and Serial Numbers – McCain has no problem sticking it to you. And he will have a great time with the new list of earmarks.

    It’s gonna be fun. McCain is looking forward to it.


  256. Reid sounds like a prissy old lady! I’m sorry if that sounds sexist. He sounds like my junior high English teacher, the one who made students read the dirty parts of Shakespeare privately.

  257. BB

    I’m glad somebody else thinks trojan horse when they see Obama. I don’t dislike the guy(I actually feel sorry for him) but I do think that he is another Bush- manipulatable. I’ve had my attenaes up with him since the day I read that Daley said “he was going to make himself a US Senator.”

  258. I love how the clickety-clicks on the cameras go up everytime Harry holds up a sheath of paper.

  259. Anna Belle, on September 26th, 2008 at 11:05 am Said:
    Vote on SUNDAY???

    Weekends are the danger. They are the financial dead of night

  260. This can’t be good for Obama. He’s not acting like a leader.

  261. Reid is having fun with his “show and tell” of the document. Okay Reid, go ahead and post it so that we can decide if we like it.

  262. McCain needs to get to Oxford. Now. I filled my gas tank yesterday. Let’s go!!

  263. SOD,

    The American people oppose the bailout. The Dems are on the wrong side again. This is going to help McCain, no matter how the Dems and the media spin it.

  264. He was elected ML because Appeasement Democrats thought he was a good compromise. A pro-life Democrat is a good compromise. I guess Big Dawg won the battle but lost the war. The Casey faction has won the day.

  265. Ut O – Reid just said BO wasn’t a member of the banking committee. Those in Germany are going to be stunned to hear that.

    Someone inject them all with mercury.

  266. Shorter Harry Reid: The two pres. candidates are clueless about banking and should butt out.

    LOL. If only you had picked Hillary, you LOSER!

  267. Arabella,

    Where the hell is Obama? He’s AWOL. Did the Dem leadership tell him to STFU after he started the “shouting match” in the meeting with Bush?

  268. reid’s in a snit because he thought they were going to get their gimmees. I’ve been reading My Two Dollars, a finance blog. Yesterday they posted some of the gimmees in the Auto bailout just passed the other day. Evidently the Treasury is having a fire sale and all OUR money must go.

  269. Reid sounds like one of the stupid old priests who advised me that to keep my errant husband happy I should go home and cook his breakfast!!!!!!!!!! Not a friggin’ clue.

  270. Pat – I’ll bring the “chickensh*t” sandwiches for the Democrats.

  271. This is unbelieveable, they are turning what is supposedly the biggest econonic crisis in American history into a giant pi$$ing contest.

  272. Riverdaughter,

    You have been on fire, your writing has been very powerful this week.

    Thanks for being here,and bringing such a great group together.

  273. CWaltz:

    When I see Obama I think of a used Trojan

  274. “This is a Republican-created problem.” This comment will go down in history for infamy, like “I can get her voters, but…”

  275. BB

    Didn’t they have to….it’d make them look stupid to be claiming McCain being there is injecting “presidential politics” into the solution. Hello? The person stuck with this lemon for the next 4 to 8 years has a right to weigh in,”presidential politics” be darned. Enough Kabuki already.

  276. Didn’t The One refer to the Banking Committee as “his”? Am I losing my mind altogether here?

  277. CWaltz,

    Me too. But it wasn’t Daley who said that. It was the guy who was President of the IL Senate. I can’t recall his name right now. He is the one who handed over a few bills and let Obama pretend he had written them and fought for them.

  278. Gregg said that the characterization of the facts is bs. There was no agreement, no consensus.

  279. MYIQ, given his parent’s marriage date and his birthdate, I think of an unused one.

  280. Reid is full of sh*t? Don’t tell Ms Manners(Nanacy Pelosi) that FOX said that. They’ll get a letter of censure and a timeout.

  281. Emil Jones, BB

  282. Lewis Carroll invented “Jabborwocky”. The Dems just trotted it out by way of a press conference. Is it any wonder why I prefer to keep my head buried in the sand? Good God Almighty!!

  283. It is very obvious, watching this, that the ONLY thing the Dems are concerned about is making sure that their ascendance, and the ascendance of their hand-picked One, goes through as planned. They are terrified that a deal brokered by McCain (even if it is a good deal) will shift the advantage on economic ground to McCain.

    The DNC leadership is perfectly willing to screw over the entire country if they can do it in a way that spins it well for Obama, and keeps their deep-pocket special interest groups happy. The dereliction of duty is BREATHTAKING.

  284. Pat – your head has a lot of company.

  285. I was wondering if McCain would try to do it by satellite, but I would be amazed if Obama allowed that…

  286. A satellite hook up just won’t do it. McCain needs to be on that stage in front of a live audience in order to appear viable. Good intentions or not, the Obama supporters will use that absence to create a diversion. Get on the plane soon!

  287. Nancy is now mad.

    No Botox Treatments for her in the final negotiations.


  288. I think McCain should stay away and let BO have his Q & A with the audience for 90 minutes. That is a trainwreck worth watching.

    I’ll buy the popcorn and beer.

  289. BB

    Hmmmmmm I thought it was Daley. My bad. Like I said, I feel for the guy(Obama). It couldn’t have been easy first to have your dad walk out and then your mom. Parents shouldn’t have kids if they aren’t prepared to put them first at least some of the time. I admire his grandma for picking up the slack. That said, that has to play havoc on your self esteem to be a child and have that happen to you.

  290. For Obama, everybody else is acting like Masters of Ceremony on his behalf. While they twirl their crap in his defense, he waits it out in the wings just waiting for the curtain to part, the lights to go up, and the audience applause before making his appearance. It is like another segment of the Ed Sullivan Show.

  291. Why are the Democrats the only ones framing this debate? Are the Republicans on the talk shows countering these assertions and are they going to have a press conference to debunk these bald-faced lies?

    WHY are they allowing Dodd & Frank of all people to filibuster after they are directly involved in the creation of this mess?

  292. Remember when it felt good to get screwed?

    lol! Thanks for the laugh!

  293. The DNC leadership is perfectly willing to screw over the entire country if they can do it in a way that spins it well for Obama, and keeps their deep-pocket special interest groups happy. The dereliction of duty is BREATHTAKING.

    That’s exactly how I see it wmcb. They are spineless, self-serving hypocrites. Padding the bill with hand-outs to organizations like ACORN at a time of fiscal crisis is reprehensible. Is anyone out there countering their false cries of concern for the people? I have never been so disgusted with the Democrats in my life.

  294. Good! McCain will be at the debate.

  295. I agree. Theres no need for McCain to go rushing off for a debate with Obama just because Obama is set up and ready to go.

    Hillary had to beg and cajole to get Obama to debate with her. McCain has offered to meet with Obama at 10 Town Hall Meetings. Obama not interested…suddenly when one of the biggest crisis’s in the history of the country arises Obama prioritizes the debate over the security of the country’s economy.

  296. I hope McCain doesn’t show up. I hope he tells the TV network that he’d be happy to share his positions and he is STILL open to having more town halls but right now he has to do his part for the crisis that our financial system is facing. I hope he says leadership means prioritizing and campaigning takes a back seat to real problems as they unfold. I hope he chides the Democratic party for injecting “presidential politics” in this and points out that whatever decision is made will need to be lived with by Bush’s successor.

  297. The Repubs are in no better position. After 8 years of bowing to Bush’s every wish, anything they say now becomes superfluous. They have as much of a hand in this debacle as anyone else. They have agreed to allow the treasury to be depleted, supped at the government trough, blindly approved any and all earmarks, and now are stuck in their own quagmire. Not much credibility here either.

  298. SweetSue, on September 26th, 2008 at 11:03 am

    True Sue ! I thought for sure the 3 dollar a gallon gas would have people reach for the pitchforks lol! But this 700 figure really puts the burr under the saddle….perhaps because it’s all at once. If they had spread it out with a 100 b here and there, they would have gotten away with it.

  299. Alert!

    McCain will be in Mississippi.

    Of course he will.

    He has to kick booty!

  300. “This is a Republican-created problem.” This comment will go down in history for infamy, like “I can get her voters, but…”

    But will it if the media stonewalls the truth of the Dems complicity?

    If the moderates and Repubs are only talking on FOX, they are not going to reach a wide swath of the public. They need to follow these blowhards and destroy their falsehoods. I am so frustrated and furious watching this constant, endless lying. Give us the damn facts and let us decide for ourselves. WE PAY YOUR SALARIES!

  301. Well, it looks like the precious gets his way again. The American people take a backseat to Barack Obama’s ego. real world problems take a back seat to his little “job interview.”

  302. fif

    We need to counteract the media. The question ought to be where were the Dems while all this was taking place? Sitting on their hands? Holding tea parties? Or willing accomplices? I go with choice three.

  303. I just sent a message to HD, NP and HR telling them that they should just leave – they put ACORN funds in in April in the first bailout bill, setting aside $100 million in “counseling” that went mostly to ACORN and La Raza, then they stole the nomination from HIllary now they want 20% of the bailout to go to ACORN.
    I believe we should inundate them with phone calls, emails and snail mail to let them know that we are not about to be duped again.

  304. Is it “politically incorrect” to say that I hate them all? And note: I have not done on damned bit of housework as yet.

  305. as you can see RD I was unsuccessful at recapturing my AVATAR

  306. The Dem majority in the House must not be in place or they would not worry about Republican House opposition—they need some Republican votes to pass their revised Paulson plan? Or they are afraid the Republicans will reap popular sentiment benefit from opposing this deal. I wonder how Americans are going to react to Reid’s saying that McCain blew this bailout deal?

  307. Housework???

  308. Joanelle,

    My priority right now is keeping the precious from the WH. After that we can handle Dean, Reid, and Pelosi.

  309. insurance in 401K’s etc:

    depends what your 401K is made of…if it is stocks, mutual fund they are not insured but if it si money market/CDs etc then they would be.

  310. joanelle: You need a map to find the kitchen! I was supposed to go offline at least an hour ago to clean. Still here. I am hopeless.

  311. McCain has a golden opportunity at the debate to take over the election…. The audience will be huge and he gets to by pass the press to reach the public. I can’t see him conceding the battle field to Barry and let it become a BO rally.

  312. PJ – LOL – I love it

  313. McCain is going to the debate, leaving now. Confident that there is a framework for agreement.
    Will return to DC after.

  314. At least they are telling the truth on FOX. Some guy is now talking about how the deal was actually a committee agreement from a meeting that didn’t include Republicans. That’s what Reid was referring to when he snickered and said he he wasn’t taking advice on who could attend meetings. He is openly engaging his middle-school mentality, his petty resentment over being weak under bullying from republicans when they had control.

    Well, Harry, if you’d had a frickin’ SPINE at any point in your life, you would have at least gone down fighting that bully, you worthless, helpless, pearl-clutching piece of ****. Grrrr.

  315. Pat Johnson, on September 26th, 2008 at 11:32 am

    oh Pat me too! lol!

  316. McCain cannot allow The One to dominate that stage alone. Bad move. Obama and company would be able to frame that in any fashion they choose.

  317. Yeah, that aspect is not talked about very much, is it? I want to hear more abou that before this bail out happens. I want bad risk-takers punished to the fullest extent. No bail out for them. Wall Street or Main Street. I don’t care.

  318. The ACORN giveaway should be a 527 ad for McCain. That organization is nothing short of criminal; it is the poster child for the corruption that gives liberal efforts to help struggling families a bad name.

  319. Obama is in the air, but he claims he’s been talking to everyone on the phone. He didn’t say what they were talking about.

    Mostly likely, poor Barack was sobbing uncontrollably while Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid did their best to calm him down. If Michelle was there, she was probably screaming at him to snap out of it and act like a man.

  320. Nah, Pat, it’s all haka. Just the announcement and the ensuing drama will effect Obama mentally. Obama will come out arrogantly assuming he has the upper hand and will, as usual, mightily underestimate his opponent. McCain knows what to do from there.

  321. Why oh why is it allowed to specify any single organization as receiving federal funds? Why do not organizations providing such services required to compete for the right to such funds?

    Glad McCain is going to the debate.

  322. This whole group does not even rise to the level of mediocrity. Our congress is a ridiculous body of idiots. As for our current Commander in Chief, he is the king of the dolts.

  323. Jangles, on September 26th, 2008 at 11:37 am

    Here here. I have watched a number of liberal organizations bought off and then destroyed to promote the One

  324. Jangles,

    The Dems are afraid if they pass the bill without Repub support, they’ll be blamed when everyone loses their social security. They need the Repubs for cover. They are all slime, IMHO.

  325. Ouch, bb!

    I do feel sorry for Perino. She has aged enormously since she took over. She’s a hack, but it’s taken its toll.

  326. Anna Belle – All the jetting to and fro has thrown Obama off his game. He’ll be frazzled at the debate. McCain knew what he was doing.

  327. Cwaltz – they want 20% for ACORN as part of this $750,000,000,000 bailout. ACORN who is a group facing criminal charges in more than a dozen states for fraud. That’s somewhere about $1 billion of our money to those thieves – I don’t want a dime of my hard earned money going them.

  328. SOD: Good point! But I also need to shower as well! Like Obama, I should be able to “multitask”.

  329. and speaking of House Hunters on HGTV, how much to I want to watch House Hunters International where people are looking for their Costa Rica vacation home? HGTV would do better to get back to how to fix stuff. and PBS should bring back ” Cookin’ Cheap! ” lol!

  330. Dana Perino is a stunning looking woman. Too bad she is a moron to boot.

  331. Arabella Trefoil, on September 26th, 2008 at 11:41 am

    I was just about to write that. Barry was happily eating waffles and having a cig, when McCain messed with his mind! LOL!

  332. SOD: I am laughing out loud over here!!!

  333. I’m off to my bank to get out 200.00 and stuff it in the mattress . bye all!

  334. Morning everyone! Can you believe all this nonsense the Republicans are pulling? There is absolutely no depth to which the Republicans won’t sink to make a political point.

    New post up!

  335. SOD – the Dems built in 20% to go to ACORN – a group closely affiliated with The One go to Hot Air at http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/26/the-democratic-acorn-bailout/ to read more.

  336. No money for ACORN, no money for Exec bonuses, no money to those tools who refused to do credit checks, no money for those who created loopholes and looked the other way, no money for those who decided to become “speculators” by buying and flipping.

  337. I don’t think the bill specified ACORN, directly. It specifies the
    Housing Trust Fund.

    (I hate that I am linking to right wing blogs)

  338. WigWag

    I disagree. There are too many portions of the bailout that reward democrat-affiliated groups such as Acorn with profits which should go back to the taxpayer.

    Our group which works in SEC compliance reviewed the issues and a bailout would NOT prevent your scenarios from happening. In fact I just received a letter from both my kids universities that there is less money and funding. In speaking with them they said this will happen with or without a bailout.

    I don’t trust either party, but the democrats who got us into this mess with Fannie Mae etc in the first place.

    There have to be protections in the bailout bill, which incidentally, promises to be MUCH HIGHER than 700 billion.

    Frankly, I don’t think McCain or anyone could have been prepared for the depth of the problem. I knew, because I’d been researching CDO’s and derivatives for a start-up looking for financing of pricing software. After reading 2,000 articles, and papers, I came away with the sense that derivatives were a house of cards set to fall hard.

    Additionally, while everyone was telling me how easy it was for them to get a mortgage: no job required, no downpayment, no credit check, illegals ok; I just couldn’t. I considered every possible scenario that could happen and couldn’t do it. The risk was too great. The debacle is a result of everyone’s greed from the little guy who didn’t think to the banks who knew what the default percentage would be – high even in good times. And a result of not thinking things through.

    Riverdaughter – I heard the reservations the republicans have and they do make sense. I think we need to think this through before approving it. It needs great oversight, and the rewards for criminal organizations and people removed.

  339. Voter Mom:

    The Housing Trust Fund is a slush fund for Acorn. I know I’m from Chicago…

  340. I think we PUMAs are pretty lucky here…because we saw first hand that our own party is as evil as the other party, we have been looking very critically at the BS spewed from BOTH sides of the aisle in a way that we may not have if we were allowed to continue to believe that Dems are the good guys.

  341. New Post Up!!!

  342. What channel should I watch the debate on?

  343. votermom: I usually watch online through C Span. This way you are not subjected to the spinning that takes place from either side.

  344. I don’t know. I find it refreshing that Bush spoke in the common vernacular. Times like these demand realism, not more high falutin rhetoric. Not that I support the guy. Heaven forfend!

    And Paulson getting down on his knees. I like that too. He is reaching out, even willing to beg for assistance. Something Republicans should do more often.

    As for the “unnamed” senior Republican source quoted, I don’t put much stock in anonymous people. If they don’t have the courage to go on the record then they shouldn’t be on the record.

    The Democrats deserve a 4 year Time Out. Nothing could make me happier. Politically that is.

  345. Bless your numb little mouth RD! Hope it wears off in time for cocktails!

    You are correct to remind us that Anglachel’s piece the other day exactly identified the end-game! She has interpreted this bail-out tango down to each little step…

    It will be High Noon at the OK Corral down in Mississippi tonight.

    (all of which will make for even better ratings for the MSM).

    Not only has the O’Team been played, their precious preparation time has been squandered.

  346. RD & Co! Bill Dupray, a trusted blogger friend had this video up, and I see Uppity also put it at NQ— I’m still waiting to see the whole thing but RD! this is on the housing crisis, and the players. OMG. It goes back to the 90’s even before re Fannie Mae — a must see, everyone — a must see! This is so sad. God. Ugh. The CROOKS that did this to us, and our country. UNETHICAL. God.

    CRIMINALS. It’s very well done, easy to understand, and takes ten minutes. Don’t miss it. And here is the hug we all need. God.


  347. MyIQ’s link. This is great. Democrats became Republicans and need the bailout. Democrats became the party for big business:

    Why aren’t Democratic candidates being harder edged on the bailout? I learned last night that it’s because a lot of their donors have money in the stock market, and a lot of them are afraid that if there’s no bailout their constituents will lose jobs.

  348. Stoller is a PUMA-Obot hybrid.

    McCain is a PUMA.
    Palin is a PUMA.
    Bill Clinton is a PUMA.
    Hillary Clinton is a PUMA.
    Biden is a PUMA.

    The only person who’s not a PUMA is Obama.

  349. This site listed some of the pet projects


    He’s an Obama supporter but not one of the insane ones. He actually holds both parties in account and opposes the bailout. The site has become a regular read for me.

  350. myiq2xu, on September 26th, 2008 at 11:06 am Said:

    What is kind of amusing is that all the Obamabloggers are in high dudgeon mode but they aren’t even sure what they are pissed off about.


    LOL. I know. They are mirroring their Dear Leader. It’s like life imitating art imitating life imitating really bad burlesque.

  351. The Housing Trust Fund is just the “new” Fannie and Freddie for the Congressional Black Caucus to force more $$ into low-income, urban communities. That money will go to “community activists” and “community developers” like Rezko and Penny Pritzker, again.

    Since Fannie & Freddie have been taken over by the Feds, the “slush fund” has stopped.

    But by writing into the Dodd/Frank bill a NEW Housing Trust Fund, 20% of any profit goes right into the new fund for the same sticky fingers that screwed up Fannie & Freddie.

    And THAT is why the House Republicans balked, and why I’m glad they did.

    There’s a REASON why every time Dodd & Frank got in front of cameras, they b*tched about executive pay on Wall Street (which is a problem, yes), but NEVER mentioned the 20% automatic payment to the new Housing Trust Fund.

    They were hoping they could push it through before the media or the public KNEW about the 20% slush fund.

    This legislation will NEVER pass if the Dems do not remove that section of the bill .

    Americans will not be willing to take all the losses as taxpayers, but send 20% of the profits to the very people who got us here in the first place.

    And I DO hope John McCain brings this up in the debate.

    Barak Obama WORKED for Acorn as an attorney in Chicago as a fresh young lawyer right out of law school. He used his “Civil Rights lawyer” moniker to help groups like Acorn SUE any banks that would not loan money in poor-income neighborhoods, even if they weren’t credit-worthy. He played the race card to do it.

    Americans need to know this, and that the Democratic Party is just setting up another Fannie/Freddie with a brand new name.

    It’s truly despicable how they’re BAMBOOZLING the American people.

  352. First of all, love this blog…RD you’re doing the lord’s work here, seriously.

    I wish that WigWag would have brought up the most important thing about the bailout. It’s not just about the banks failing or not failing, it’s about the credit markets. It’s about student loans, and business loans. Like it or not, credit is what keeps this economy growing. Just last week BOA cut off its credit lines to MCD franchisees.

    We need something: Somebody needs to step through the partisan rancour and say why we need this: If McCain coudl do that he’d seal the election and I’d vote for him.

  353. Do not like the look of this, from Real Clear Politics:

    RCP Average 09/18 – 09/25 — Obama: 48.2; McCain:44.2; Obama +4.0

    The RCP average has been volatile the last few days, with as low as a 3.2 lead for BO.

  354. Xcellent article River Daughter.
    Logica Falsa Soeterobama’s Philosophiam Totam Suffodiant…
    ( Faulty Logic Undermines Soeterobama’s Entire Philosophy )…
    nuff said…

  355. Bailout Deal Breaks Down – Where’s Barack

    The meeting in the WH was extremely contentious. The Dems had a deal the Dems agreed upon but when the Rs saw what they were up to, they balked and then Harry Reid completely lost it and Franks blew a gasket. What the Dems had done was commit a huge chunk of the bailout to ACORN. Wow! That’s a group that has been investigated for vote fraud in 17 states, suspected of thuggery, organized crime, money laundering, criminal waste, you name it. Obama’s campaign gave over $800,000 to ACORN.

    Riverdaughter check out Alegre’s corner and the ACORN PORK GIVE AWAY!

  356. Just getting here so haven’t read all the comments yet.

    This a.m. on Mornin’ Joe, Mika was just aghast and shocked, Paulson got down on bended knee to beg Pelosi…

    On CNN a different take; that it was a light comedic moment. I don’t know, I wasn’t there.

    McCain (so I’ve read/seen supported a measure to curb Fannie/Freddie back in 05 when Shelby was banking committee chair. The Dems didn’t want it and there’s been the release of donation amts from Freddie/Fannie to the Dems and Obama was the 2nd highest in contributions. It’s not going to fly well.

    Now going back to caching up on comments.

  357. “For anyone who missed it, I was banned from TalkLeft last night”


    I am flabbergasted at what has happened over at TL. It used to be one of my number-one top sites to visit. I was concerned when Jeralyn swallowed the Kool-Aid so dutifully, but at least BTD always held out as an oasis of sanity. He tolerated lively debate and skepticism about The One (which he shared) and encouraged dissent.

    No more. Today he announced that no PUMAs who support McCain are welcome on his thread. Republicans who support McCain, however, ARE welcome.


  358. Am I in mod?

    (testing 1, 2 , 3)

  359. I was banned ages ago for complaining about the sexist comments directed at me and others. They have some pretty weird ways about who they allow there. Also, they have an agenda…at least that is my take…given what they are promoting. If you don’t go along…they push the BAN BUTTON!

  360. The ACORN clause MUST be removed. No way will Americans go for giving ACORN anything. In fact, more Americans are against a bailout plan.

  361. McCain outflanked Obama on the bailout plan. I think a deal will get done by this weekend. Some reports are that one is expected tonight after midnight. or in the morning. We’ll see.

    One thing we know for sure is a fact is that there was NO deal this week at all. Saying so was just political spin by Harry Reid and Frank.

    One thing that should be noted is that the Democrats are the majority in Congress. if they want to pass this nearly $1 Trillion bailout deal and screw the American taxpayer in the process, then let them fall on their sword.

    McCain’s leadership to return to Washington is going to help get a better Bill for the american taxpayer and for our economy. The media may not say this, but that is the truth, and I think Americans see John McCain as somone that is putting country first to help the American people.

    Looking forward to watching the debate tonight! McCain is ready. I think he’ll compare and contrast his positions and leadership ability with Obama’s. He’ll also outline the differences between he and Obama on the economy and their policy on this bailout plan.

    I think the American people will be able to see that McCain is the real leader in all this, and Obama is not ready to lead.

    And don’t you find funny the Obamabots that claim McCain was afraid to debate Obama? LOL! McCain has been wanting to debate Obama for months.

    Just saw Susan Rice trying to set low expectations for Obama in the debate tonight. They must be worried. LOL!

    The way Barry has insisted that this debate is more important than working out a deal on the economy, I think the expectations for Obama in this debate are VERY high compared to McCain.

    Some people think McCain is not a good in debates. I think he’ll be able to more than hold his own and will win it. Obama doesn’t have his teleprompter tonight.

  362. myiq, re: “Like all PUMA’s, I have the right to remain silent but not the ability. My idol is the boy who said ‘The emperor has no clothes!’ “

    Or, in the case of the empty suit, “… the clothes have no Emperor.”

  363. hi guys, just thot I’d repeat some important facts for the newcomers. 1.). I have no control over your wordpress account. I only have administrative privileges on this blog. If you are having issues with your avatar, please contact wordpress for support.
    2.) I work full time between 9-5. For some reason, my employers want me to give them something in return for my salary. In short, I am a wage slave. Not only that but that have constructed a byzantine firewall between me and my blog. It gets better: my iPhone gets only sporadic signal in my office so I can’t access my personal email eeither. Only a rare celestial/atmospheric alignment allows me to post this comment. It may not happen again for 30 years. So, I will not be able to respond to comments 99% of the time when I’m at work. This is frustrating. I like newcomers. Everyone is welcome as long as they don’t get too pushy about who they’re going to vote for.

  364. why is my comment in moderation?

  365. okay, maybe the comment is too long for the filter–I’ll repost in smaller increments:

    banned at TL–WTF:

    Everyone knows the Obots get paid to post, right? And everyone knows about the 400 paid bloggers, right? So why is anyone confused when a blog deletes comments and bans bloggers who post inconvenient facts?

  366. urgetocompute: as I understand it, some of those polls are overweighted with African American voters assuming the are all ‘likely’ voters. Consider that some polls, such as the WaPo poll, are comissioned by a paper who seems to have a love affair with Obama.

  367. I just thought I’d post an Italian point of view on Paulson’s plan:
    by Luigi Spaventa
    It’s translated into English, for an academic paper.

    Things are getting nervous in Europe. It seems a Dutch bank is about to fail. An Italian bank -unicredit just lost 5%.

  368. okay, maybe the comment is too long for the filter–I’ll repost in smaller increments:

    BAnned at TL–WTF:

    Try this. Go in to TL or any other O-blog with a new IP and ask who is bankrolling them, only say it in a nice way. Prediction: they will beat around the bush but will not answer directly. Then they will ban you.

    There is something new called a “non-disclosure agreement” going around. I’ve heard that you have to sign one to be a seller on Za zzle. Why not apply this arrangement to bloggers too, especially one that people think is expressing their own personal views and not just market-tested talking points? Maybe the financial backers of a MSM newspaper or TV station are public knowledge, but how would anyone know who is controlling a blog?

  369. Ironman has a good point – let me elaborate……..from the Repubs perspective……

    NO money for ACORN
    NO money for La Rasa
    Barney Frank GONE as head of Banking and finance
    Criss Dodd GONE
    Charley Rangel GONE as head of Ways and Means
    Harry (whorehouse) Reid GONE just because
    Why is William Jefferson still in congress?
    Dissolve the Congressional Black Caucus

    Then maybe we have a deal.

    I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but I hate being treated like an idiot.

  370. okay, maybe the comment is too long for the filter–I’ll repost in smaller increments:

    BAnned at TL–WTF:

    Try this. Go in to TL or any other O-blog with a new IP and ask who is bankrolling them, only say it in a nice way. Prediction: they will beat around the bush but will not answer directly. Then they will ban you.

  371. okay, maybe the comment is too long for the filter–I’ll repost in smaller increments:

    BAnned at TL–WTF:
    There is something called a “non-disclosure agreement” going around. I’ve heard that you have to sign one to be a seller on some t-shirt fulfillment companies. Why not blogs too, especially blogs that are assumed to be non-partial?

  372. McKinney adds to her 10-point plan:

    11. appointment of former Comptroller General David Walker to fully audit all recipients of taxpayer cash infusions, including JP Morgan, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and AIG, and to monitor their trading activities into the future;

    12. elimination of all derivatives trading;

    13. nationalization of the Federal Reserve and the establishment of a federally-owned, public banking system that makes credit available for small businesses, homeowners, manufacturing operations, renewable energy and infrastructure investments; and

    14. criminal prosecution of any activities that violated the law, including conflicts of interest that led to the current crisis.

  373. If Barky is Wall Street’s darling, is the current crisis the Democrats’ October Surprise?

  374. “To be a successful president, and believe me, George W. Bush has been successful beyond expectations, you have to be able to do long term planning.”

    I don’t understand what you mean by that. GW has been terrible, most of us R’s agree on that. In fact, my wife and I were bitching earlier that we don’t have the option of punishing our party for not following conservative principles. We don’t have that option because the dems decided to run a completely unqualified guy. Although I wouldn’t agree with Hillary on many things I would have felt comfortable that she could handle the job until R’s got their shit together.

  375. myiq,

    Don’t worry about being banned from TL.

    Last I checked, their traffic is waaaaaay down, especially in Jerallyn’s threads……only 10-20 comments on her threads.

    Most of the long-time posters have moved on, and the only thing Jeralynn posts about now is Sarah Palin, and every juicy piece of gossipy garbage Jeralynn can find.

    I’m married to a man with an MBA in Economics.
    I asked him to read some of Jeralynn/BTD’s economic analysis on the bailout, and he laughed out loud. They may be fine attorneys, but their understanding of economics—straight up, without political gobbledegook—is pathetic.

    I finally just quit going to the blog, and removed it from my favorites list.

    But don’t feel isolated, myiq.

    There are MANY MANY posters/bloggers who have completely given up on Talk Left.

  376. riverdaughter, on September 26th, 2008 at 4:59 pm Said:

    urgetocompute: as I understand it, some of those polls are overweighted with African American voters assuming the are all ‘likely’ voters. Consider that some polls, such as the WaPo poll, are commissioned by a paper who seems to have a love affair with Obama.

    Yep, they are very good points. The polls, as you say, are quite disparate. I did consider pulling apart the figures. What is both good and bad for McCain is that BO’s running average lead over McCain since about Dec 2007 has been climbing from negative – i.e.e McCain well ahead – to a very slow rise, on average, of about 2.6%. Of course recent isolated events can change a running average only little, so a sudden rise now for either candidate would not see the running average of % points ahead for BO change by much. But it’s sort of bad news for BO I think that the running average is only around 2.6% now. Given everything he and the Dems and the media combined have thrown at it, together with recent events, I would have expected to see a more pronounced surge in his lead. I await the poll results after the debate with great interest.

    Thanks, BTW, for the best political bog there is.

  377. The dems are trying so hard to spin this their way; McCain has poor judgement, keep his big nose out of it. Ha! Reid first wants the support of the candidates, then he gives them hell for coming? Talk about theater!!!
    I am so sick of these dems choking on acorns and pork as they talk shit; I am sooo independent!
    McCain will beat the absolute crap out of bambi tonight and venicen will be served at breakfast! Heat the coffee and start the eggs, we are having gamey DNC bacon in the AM! I am going to chill with a cool drink and take it all in; I have no fear because the repubs are used to this crap, it is what they do best. Bambi thinks he is still fighting an inhouse foe(Hillary), the repubs are not going to let things go, or be polite. In the real world idiots who are not prepared to lead get their asses kicked back in line. Pull up a chair and relax.; we are on our way to the White House!

  378. desperate times require desperate men. Tonights debate will be keenly watched.Pity its not on the economy.

  379. an awsome new video about the banking crisis and who is responsible… spread the word

    The foxes are guarding the hen house RIGHT NOW! we must not let the Dems leading the discussion about the bailout MAKE THE DECISIONS

  380. […] Friday: The Treasury Secretary begged Pelosi on his knees?! According to the NYTimes, the meeting on the financial bailout yesterday at the White House had definitely gone into […] […]

  381. Hillary Hillary Hillary snooze. When you lose in a fair fight a “leader” doesn’t whine about it.

  382. myiq,–
    is not worried about TL as such, it’s the lost portion of his life that represents. My old blog hangout is now posting one Palin thing after another too–it’s their marching orders. For a while, I really missed interacting with the personalities, but they are no longer free to think for themselves. Sad, yes. But I am now following a work related blog to keep my brain cells at peak levels. Let myiq mourn for his old coffeeshop, the neighborhood has definitely taken a turn for the worse.

  383. We can not provide 700B to the same people responsible for this mess. We need fresh faces. accountability and equity interest for the tax payer.. We so desperately need a change in howw government and business are handled. Take a look at what Ralp Nader has said about the bailout. it makes sense.

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