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Debate Watching, Confluence Style

Tonight is the first of the presidential debates and we at The Confluence watch our debates a little differently.  We act like English is not our native language.  That way, you’re not so taken with the flowery turns of phrase.  I was reminded of a chapter in Oliver Sacks’ book, The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat where aphasics in rehabilitation watched a debate with Ronald Reagan in it and couldn’t stop laughing.  Without language, they were able to detect the subtle signals that the body and face give that indicate deceitfulness.  So, we also pay a lot of attention to body language.  Obama’s disrespect and contempt for Clinton just oooozed from the screen during his debates with her.  He didn’t have to say a word.  So, if you want to watch the debates Conflucian style, here’s what you do:

  1. First, watch it on C-Span where your propaganda filter is minimal.
  2. If you have a DVR, set the debate to record and watch it the first time through with the sound off.
  3. Then go through the DVR recorded portion, verrrrryyyy sloooowwwlly.  Take as much time as possible to parse every word until you get to its true meaning.

Have at it Conflucians!  This is a live blog thread.

515 Responses

  1. Here’s my take pre-debate.
    I can’t stand the idea of either one as President.

  2. sounds like we’ve replaced “um with “aaaaaand”…

  3. now he wants to protect homeowners. thanks for thinking of us.

  4. I like that he’s talking so fast and staring so oddly at the camera…

    he looks scared out of his shoes…

  5. SweetieSue: I hear ya’. It’s almost as if we have returned to the pre-suffrage era. I am yearning to make a difference and have been shut out.
    Well. I’m not going to let them get to me. They’re sure as hell going to hear from me in November.

  6. I’m watching with one foot hanging out of the room….

  7. rd: I feel much the same way. Like I don’t make a damned bit of difference.

    How’s McC looking to you all?

  8. BTW, I found a delicious new Bourbon. it’s called Bulleit. Nice, light, slightly sweet. Smooth, clean finish.

  9. Wine. Wine. Wine. Nectar of the gods!! Only way to get through this.

  10. Lehrer showed a little life! Must’ve taken his Geritol.

  11. KAtiebird – listen to it on your NPR station instead…it’s much better.

    OMG, OBAMA STOLE HILLARY’s 2 yrs ago line!!!

    He was just getting his foot in the senate!!!

  12. McC sounded calmer and made an effort to speak more slowly… BO is now addressing Leher and doing a bit better… but back to the professorship thing…

  13. Is Obama lying again and taking credit for warning 2 years ago. Thats a lie isn’t it?

  14. McCain looks a little discombobulated.

  15. I think McCain looks off.

  16. Obama looks well coached. He is maintaining eye contact with the camera very well. He looks “purposeful”. But that only means that he’s had advice from a specialist.

  17. You may rate the debate if you are interested in doing so.

  18. Yes, McCain does. Obama’s had three days of beauty sleep, too.

  19. I’m too nervous to watch this–don’t know why, but listening from the kitchen.

  20. They concentrated too much on his stare at the camera and not enough on what he’s doing with his hands. His hands are the things that are communicating his nervousness.

  21. NH –
    Is Obama lying again…… lips moving? uhhhh then yeah

  22. McCain is trailing early, unfortunately.

  23. and he’s using hand movements well!

  24. back to stammering for BO and McC always look kinda discombobulated…

  25. alot of ands from Obama

  26. McCain came out with that look in his eye just to shake hands

  27. Obama had a hard time looking at McCain when Leher told him to. He didn’t make eye contact. Looked cowardly.

  28. Obama is just spouting what he has memorized.

  29. NH: He probably gave a speech about it. You can look it up! Er, if it exists, that is.

  30. McCain needs to look at the camera not the moderator! He is also not being specific enough.

  31. Oooooh. synchronicity. Riverdaughter, on Wed I recommended that book to my classes and told them the Reagan story. We were talking about different types of aphasias.

  32. McCain just made a big mistake: he said “WE REPUBLICANS” came to DC to change government and it changed us.

    HE NEEDS TO DIVORCE HIMSELF FROM BUSH!

  33. nice line – 3 million dollars to study bears DNA in montana – didn’t know if it was for criminal or paternal issues

  34. McCain is waking up a bit.

  35. Good hit on Obama about his earmarks.

  36. McC’s tie is vibrating on my tv…

  37. I support Montana bears!

  38. he suspended earmarks for IL? wow, I need to pay way more attention to what my “elected” officials are doing!

  39. ok, I’ve listened to Obama as much as I can. He’s on mute now.

  40. uh uh uh uh….Obama confronted with his earmarks.

  41. Just passed through the living room where hubby is watching the debate. First (and only) impression: Obama has the mien of an undertaker and that rubber-flapping Nixon sound. Just can’t watch him.

  42. I heard Obama’s first “uh”

  43. There is a site that has been set up for viewers to send their questions to the moderators of the debate, rate the debate, and discuss with others issues around the debate. It appears that the link is being held in moderation, but the site is:

    Rate the Debates.org

    It will allow those of us who wish to have our opinions heard to have access to the media through a pre-approved and accessible channel.

  44. MSNBC has a better live stream on the internet; not only that, but one can post the embed on one’s blog afterwards to have it for future reference.

    There is NO commentary from pundits, etc. during the debates, so such criticism is moot.

  45. bb — BO will not address the earmarks — he will pretend McCain didn’t say it, and the msm will pretend he didn’t say it either.

  46. McCain does look a little out of it. Why did he keep looking down early on? Obama is on his game tonight, sorry to say.

  47. Fundamental–the new buzz word by Barky.

  48. I realize I just don’t know the “right” people.

  49. McCain is NOT looking at the camera. Big mistake. But his facial expressions look he is really thinking about his answers. They seem spontaneous. His eyebrows are very expressive . His hands are mostly on the podium. they aren’t distracting. They are puncuating his words. They aren’t doing the thinking for him. I think he should be looking more at the camera but I find his body language a bit more engaging from a “thinking” POV.

  50. if the average american has a little extra money – I honestly don’t think they’re going to be spending it to buy a computer for their kid. more likely, it’s for food, gas, medicine, rent/mortgage

  51. “He didn’t happen to see that light in his first year in Congress.”

    Good snark from McCain!

    He’s coming to life now.

  52. Gas is not killing me.

  53. Fif: but he chastized Republicans – so it was a good line IMO.

  54. “ta” instead of “to” and “gonna” instead of “going to” are a couple irritating tics that get on my nerves…. Bush uses it and so does BO…

  55. Charlie Rangel and Ted Stevens are up on charges now.

  56. Okay, he is waking up a bit now, good hit on the 932 million. He was eager to hit Obama, good.

  57. Sock it to him, McCain!

  58. “I was called the Sherriff by a senior member of the Appropriations Committee.”

    Great line!!

    Obama just interrupted McCain.

  59. BO just interrupted Mac! WTF?

  60. McCain should stop blinking so much.

  61. At least Obama isn’t saying “the notion that somehow” like he did during the primaries, it used to drive me nuts.

  62. Ha. Ha. Obama is getting p*ssy!! McCain dared to criticize the Prince!

  63. I don’t necessarily think that McCain’s demeanor is a minus, but Obama seems to be on tonight.

  64. He just co-opted Mac’s “line by line” on earmarks line.

  65. riverdaughter, he always does that with his eyes. I am not sure why. I think he does it when he gets worked up.

  66. It must be difficult to look at Obama who is allowing ads about his imminent death to be played on MSNBC and paid for by Dean’s brother.

  67. BO is going to pull out the patronizing attitude now… and that is how he’s going to lose…

  68. interruptin = disrespect

  69. Obama interrupted, and is not that strong with the response.

  70. Obama “I,I,I,II,I, I…..” he does that a lot when he’s upset

  71. ugsome, he is on…and he locked himself in a room for 3 days to prepare for it, while McCain did none of that…

  72. Obama says he is going to go line by line to make sure money isn’t being wasted. Does he think the President has a line item veto?

  73. Lehrer can’t get them to addres each other and not him, interesting

  74. ok sm77 & charles: i’m glad you heard it as a good line.

  75. Pat – do NPR radio, it’s less damage to the soul.

  76. Obama is getting his pissy look, and raising the finger. Makes him look bad.

  77. go purchase their own health care. NO darnit, UHC!

  78. Senator O is a recent convert after requesting earmarks!

    did we take our snarky pills this evening?

  79. Obama IS pissy, WMCB.

  80. Obama does appear fresher, younger. But he comes off looking like a young, playful puppy. McCain, far from curmudgeonly, looks sort of impish. His face is very expressive. It has a touch of mischief in it.

  81. Okay, McCain is getting better.

  82. OBAMA IS STUTTERING

    W-w, w-w, well, i-i-if you…

  83. Okay, McCain has warmed up. I think he just starts slow.

  84. I wonder how the hell we are going to pay for the war and this ding dang bailout then?

  85. Obama’s stuttering again….

  86. Obama is pandering now.

  87. Yeah, John’s been working, and Obama’s been cramming.

  88. Uh oh. Barky is getting that tone of exasperation in his voice. He doesn’t like to be challenged…

  89. SM: I have Fox streaming.

  90. Brit — BO is ALWAYS pandering imo

  91. and he finally looked at McCain – albeit with the pointing finger and lecturing him

  92. Pat-They are definitely doing everything they can think of to drive away older voters. Stupid.

  93. Mac just brought up the Bush/Cheney Energy Bill!!

  94. Walking the walk – talking the talk –

    OOooh, energy bill – ouch. McCain got that point.

  95. Good one on energy bill

  96. walking the walk and talking the talk! Go MAC! He’s getting better and better.

    He just interrupted Mac again!

  97. I’m not watching tonight – a little Gentleman Jack (smooooth) a splash of ginger and your comments will get me through.
    I did leave messages for Dem and Repub leadership that they all will have a “time out” if they don’t take ACORN out of the bailout. The $100,000,000 they gave ACORN in April, trashing Sen. Clinton and now this is too much. We will handle things until they are able to behave as adults.

  98. Obama has no idea what ordinary people have to do to get health care.

  99. Obama getting petulant and trying to talk over McCain. REALLY bad moment for him – looked like a 7th grader.

  100. I don’t like it when he pulls out the pointing finger…

  101. Festooned with Christmas ornaments! Love it! Go John!

  102. Think O has a bit more gray tonight?

  103. Am I the only who is being driven crazy by the fact that Senator Obama continues to lift Senator Clinton’s ideas and lines – word-for-word-in the this debate?

  104. Did he just lie again by saying the he DIDN’T vote for a tax cut for people making $42K?

  105. We are so totally fu*ked!!!!!!!!!

  106. McC needs to stop bouncing on his toes…. his shot is far too tight for that.

  107. PAT: My little ole laptop is not that fast for me to stream & comment here. She’s an ole mule, but she gets me by.

  108. how does he know what’s on the senate floor now? he’s never there

  109. Barky is getting flustered.

  110. No, you’re not the only one, Heidi. Woman does the work, man takes the credit.

  111. Stop interrupting, Barack. He is so condescending.

  112. With the sound off, I can’t hear what is being said, but it appears that McCain is fully engaged, conversational style, with Lehrer. It’s as if he was having a friendly debate or conversation in the hallway with someone he knows.
    Obama isn’t looking at anyone directly right now. He is alternating sides, as if he were reading from a teleprompter. I find it distracting. There is too much movement.

  113. this is insane—–it’s llike I’m nervous for McCain. Tell you why—-was arguing yesterday with Obama friends of my daughter and they firmly believe that Obama will wipe the floor with ‘the old man.” Needless to say, I disagreed, but I need some proof tonight.

  114. Pat — why did you say we are f*cked?

  115. Joan, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:25 pm Said:
    I noticed that – either he’s stopped dying his hair or he’s had some grey added in.

    BTW, the constant interrupting from BO makes him sound – surprise! – arrogant.

  116. Heidi, we noticed that he’s doing a “What Hillary Said” debate.

    Except of course when he stutters.

  117. wasn’t BO’s speech at the convention almost verbatim Hillary?

    hasn’t got an original idea of his own…

  118. Fif – GOOD!!!! Barky always blows it when his flustered. The real Barky comes through.

  119. Why do I not believe Obama??

  120. I agree Charles. McCain is in a groove. Obama is getting off stride with the challenges.

  121. BIOFUEL = BAD FOR US. Except for Sugar.

  122. Yes Heidi, he’s probably been studying all of the primary debates when he was vacationing in FL

  123. Barky is going into lecture mode, sounding a little angry.

  124. kc — it is insane — I’m nervous for Mac too — I’m watching FOX — what’s next — cats sleeping with dogs?

  125. I read some congressman said DC inundated with phone calls about bailout-50% No and 50% Hell No.

  126. Heidi: I think if Clinton could have done the debate in his stead, she would have. i get the sense from Hillary that she takes this election a lot more seriously than Obama and possibly even McCain.

  127. No answer to what he will cut. Just the same old rhetoric.

  128. HAHA! He’s got some schmootz on his lip.

  129. Thing with Barky is he can’t go off script or he doesn’t know what to do. If McCain stays on the offensive, the debate is his.

  130. You’re not alone, Heidi.

    I love that McCain openly laughed at Obama. I hate when O goes off on his Christmas wishlist without talking about how to get them.

  131. BO’s all over the place now

  132. It’s amazing how, when asked a question, they get off off topic into something else not even related to the topic

  133. We never believe him Pat. He’s a compulsive liar. One of them just lied to millions of people about the $42K tax cut bracket. McCain said: “You can look it up.”

    I remember in the NH debate when Hillary said his campaign manager was a lobbyist, and he interrupted her and said, “That’s not true.”

    IT WAS TRUE. And NOONE followed up on it. Back then, I was astounded that he could lie like that and not be held accountable for it.

  134. I’m nervous for McCain, too. This is unreal.

  135. I can’t stand to listen to BO any longer. I’m going to watch body language too, I guess. I just can’t take his voice.

  136. “Cut spending”. Where???????????

  137. Pat Johnson, you don’t believe BO because he changes his positions faster than I can switch tabs on my browser.

  138. mccain good here with specifics

  139. i can follow McCain but when obama starts speechfying he loses me completely

  140. It’s making me ill too, Heidi. Hate that he gets to promote the Democratic platform. He is not deserving of it.

  141. Great specifics re: the Boeing contract by McCain.

  142. Start with congress for job elimination.

  143. I think McCain is speaking in such a way that is easy to understand, while Obama is speaking like a theorist.

  144. Me too, jonas8. I get that glazed over feeling.

  145. BPD — yep, Mac is good on specifics because he actually has done things in his career (not that I agree with his politics) but he has done them — BO hasn’t done anything but run for office.

  146. I love when McCain brings up his actual experience – something Barky doesn’t even have a glimmer in his eyes of ever having

  147. jonas8: me too. I have the mute on for him. He’s just unbearable.

  148. investing in energy?? what is that? some kind of new research i’m not aware of?

  149. “I’m not willing to give up the need to do it”…?

  150. McCain doing well – talking about fixed-cost contracts, instead of deals costing 4 times what the bid was, how he killed a bad deal.

  151. bostonboomer-I feel the same about him as Bush. Can’t stand to listen to them. 4 or 8 more years? Can’t take it!

  152. riverdaughter, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:28 pm:
    Yes, Clinton does take the election the most seriously – not that she isn’t plenty ambitious, but compared to either of these guys, but especially BO, her overriding motivation is the good of the country.

  153. Lehrer is doing a good job.

  154. Thank you, Heidi Li.

  155. whenever BO says the word “wrongheaded” I want to slap him back into last year.

  156. Barky’s being wildly liberal is in response to his opposition to Bush’s policies? Is he sure about that?

  157. Charles – YES! I love it too.

    McCain got some good wonk in regards to that.

    Obama is stuttering everytime he starts to talk.

    Now he’s rambling.

    Lehrer is reigning him in…

  158. Lehrer has done an a good job debating so far.

  159. Britannia, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:32 pm Said:
    Lehrer is doing a good job.

    _________

    Yes he is. He’s doing a great job of follow up.

  160. he really flubbed his planned line about opposing Bush’s policies,haha he’s rattled

  161. sorry I meant “moderating”

  162. Lehrer has always seemed like a decent guy. Olbermann isn’t fit to kiss his shoes.

  163. The problem with using a spending freeze is it’s a hatchet when you need a scalpel.

    That was (ugh) a good line by Barky.

  164. “I think if Clinton could have done the debate in his stead, she would have. i get the sense from Hillary that she takes this election a lot more seriously than Obama and possibly even McCain.”

    Amen, riverdaughter. She’s the only grown up in Washington.

    BO is going into Bush’s petulant mode.

  165. Damn. And he gets to wield Iraq, too.

  166. MAC JUST BROUGHT UP HIS WORK WITH HILLARY!!

  167. Along with Sen. Clinton! LOL!

  168. “Hello Hillary voters!” from John McCain.

  169. He mentioned working w/Senator Clinton. Yay!

  170. McCain mentioned Senator Clinton…..

    1st DOGWHISTLE to her voters

  171. God I wish Obama wasn’t able to just ramble on and on and on. You’d think this debate was all about him.

  172. Sound off, I feel like I could quite enjoy having a conversation with McCain. He seems approachable, engaging. He seem solid yet his face is playful.
    Obama has a head bobble as if he were puctuating some point. Again, too much movement. Too all over the place.

  173. What is with the moderator? Is he right in repeating the same question or am I just reactionary?

  174. Di*k. Hillary’s plan!

  175. Both Obama and McCain are caught flatfooted by Lehrer’s question, and Lehrer is not backing off.

  176. OMG – Obama took Hillary’s line AGAIN with HOLC

  177. Oh McCain is going to nail him on this, just watch.

  178. I don’t want offshore drilling!!!! If O wouldn’t do it, too, that would be a dealbreaker for Mac.

  179. Pat Johnson, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:34 pm Said:

    “Hello Hillary voters!” from John McCain.

    ———

    LOL. I bet that annoyed the dauphin. Yay!

  180. There’s something about Obama’s speaking style that just loses me. I can’t concentrate on what he saying.

  181. Obama is confused. There is a difference between government making money and taxpayers getting their individual money back.

  182. I would totally be comfy with Mac in my house — I’d even drink a beer with him (and I hate beer).

  183. What is the question they keep missing?

  184. Obama would never talk to any of us. We are deadenders to him.

  185. i find the fact that the US is the second highest country in terms of taxing business, unbelieavable!

  186. I know sm77, it pisses me off!

  187. I notice that McCain is not looking much at Obama. As a senior Senator does not feel he has to pay tribute to a junior.

  188. Barky learned from Blagoevich about having new spending without new funding – even though Blago isn’t part of the Chicago machine

  189. McCain’s biggest problem is the Republican view, which he shares, on healthcare.

  190. Ugh, whose idea was it to have this on Friday night? A lot of people won’t be home and don’t have internet (or good connections). The MSM is going to have a field day editing this for the news.

  191. People are going to like hearing about Mac’s words re: taxes and spending.

  192. Wow. Brave, he mentioned US owing China billions of dollars.

  193. Oh, Heidi — if that was the only thing BO was confused about. I wouldn’t be so worried at the prospect of him being President.

  194. oh no he din’t! he just called him Jim instead of John

  195. Jim, John? Again no idea where he is or who he is talking to.

  196. Barky has stolen everything from Hillary short of her underwear. And her honor.

  197. Did McCain just mention Clinton when he was talking about climate change?

  198. Listen to him – the audacity of dope!

  199. Heh, Obama is desperate.

  200. Obama: a-hole. It’s been YOUR president, who you have agreed with 90% of the time. He is direclty challenging Mac.

    I hope he has a good response.

    GREAT! Mac is separating himself from Bush!

  201. Go John. Tell him how you have opposed the pResident.

  202. Charles-There would be more if you were allowed to say something other than “Obama is God!”

  203. McCain looks at the moderator straight on. Obama looks with his head slightly tilted back. It does look a bit snobby.
    Hey, I only report what I see.

  204. obama gave mccain the opportunity to show its independence from bush. bad play for obama

  205. McCain will defend Iraq. Wrong.
    Obama will defend not going.

  206. hard to swallow? Like a DNC selectee that was shoved down our throat?

  207. now, does BO call McC, “John” and McC calls him “Senator Obama”?

    that doesn’t seem right… he used to do that with Hillary… I’m kinda old and when I get the fundraising emails from Obama that address me by my first name, it just seems too familiar…

    title and last name please….

  208. Obama can’t win debates by linking McCain with Bush.

  209. GARY: YES!! He deliberately mentioned HRC.

    Reaching out to PUMAs again!

  210. Obama gets a little whiny and strident – “But you are just like Bush!!” McCain grins and points out that he has not been particularly popular with the current administration, lists his opposition to Bush on climate, spending, torture, etc.

  211. “orgy of spending”, what the heck?

  212. anyone want to make a counter of the total times Obama interrupts McCain?

    BTW….do you think it was smart to say ‘orgy of spending’

  213. A lot of people are more in favor of “winning’ in Iraq, rather than just leaving, a plus for McCain

  214. “that doesn’t seem right… he used to do that with Hillary… I’m kinda old and when I get the fundraising emails from Obama that address me by my first name, it just seems too familiar…

    title and last name please….”

    Absolutely right, Mr. OldCoastie.

  215. I was on the wrong thread dammit!!!

    How have things gone so far? Had to be dragged to a school concert.

  216. chatting with a colleague. He thinks Obama is more genuine than Hillary, who he thinks is a political player like her husband. Huh?

  217. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    not this crap again.

  218. RD: Has he done any finger wagging?

    I’m on NPR radio, and it “sounds” like a finger wag whenever he interrupts & stutters whenever he starts to talk.

    MORE “UHs”

  219. RD,

    BO seems really herky jerky in his movement. Has he always been like that? I usually just listen to debates on the radio.

  220. six years ago he gave a speech in a radical liberal left wing district- big deal!

  221. Oh crap, there he goes again, “I was against the war” he wasn’t even in the fricking senate, bullcrap

  222. sm77,
    fingerwagging just happened

  223. Obama and genuine in the same sentence? Hah!

  224. Stood up and opposed the war!??

  225. Heidi Li – It’s “Ms. Old Coastie”… but I consider you a friend and you can just call me “OC”

    😉

  226. Obama: I was against the war before I was for funding it.

  227. I know, meileen, I role my eyes whenever Obama talks about how he opposed the war. It is such crap.

  228. McCain sounds wise, Obama sounds peevish.

  229. Really weird. McCain comes off looking younger. I can’t explain it. I get the feeling that McCain will be young until he’s dead.

  230. Oh here with go with the stupid speech that was so “politically risky.” Give it a rest!

  231. Hey, I only report what I see.

    LOL! We all see it too RD!

  232. Get this guy off the stage.

    He took a political risk by giving an antiwar speech to a bunch of antiwar people.

    What a fraud!

  233. I hate to say this but Obama is doing better than McCain. I detest Obama

  234. is he trying to talk to both McCain and Lehrer? the constant head-turning combined with the hand movements is really distracting

  235. i dont trust Obama with the military in iraq or anywhere else

  236. My boss (a Republican but totally not a political junkie) said to me today that he saw an ad that said “Do you want 4 more years of Bush? Then don’t vote for McCain” and he said to me that was the dumbest thing he ever saw — what idiot doesn’t know that McCain isn’t Bush? I think my boss’s take on this is what a lot of those “non-political junkies” in this country (ie most of this country) think as well.

  237. Obama drives me NUTS with his ‘opposing the war’ b.s. Absolutely NUTS.

  238. Iraq: hey Senator Obama: going back to the original decision to enter the war is irrelevant. We are there. What next?

  239. RD, McCain has the genes.

  240. Right on John! “How we leave, when we leave and what we leave behind.”

  241. Good answer from McCain about getting out of Iraq.

  242. RD,

    I think McCain comes across as authentic somehow. He seems relaxed. I guess that’s why the press used to like him.

  243. the iraq debate is all McCain. look at how confortable he looks when talking about iraq

  244. Heidi Li — Mac just said the same thing you did!! Are you coaching him?

  245. Go John! Nail him.

  246. Obama is trying to ride the “against the war in the beginning” thing again, but most people don’t want to rehash that – they care what we do now

    YES!!!! McCain addressing this!

  247. Nice point on Iraq by McCain on what the next president should do.

  248. What does Biden have to do with that answer?

  249. McCain is not my idea of an orator, but he does show a superior knowledge of specifics, issue to issue.

  250. GO JOHN!

    Called him on not going for 900 days & not holding a single hearing.

    BO’s response: I am proud of my VP?!!

    He totally choked!

  251. Stick it to him, John.

  252. BB: yes, he’s always been a mover and gesticulator. He can keep his head still and focussed during opening and closing but he is always all over the place.

  253. “Joe Biden knows more than I do”.

  254. NH, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:42 pm,
    I don’t think Obama is doing better, although he’s not doing terribly.

    At the moment, Senator McCain is rocking (Iraq, etc.)

  255. B0: “Biden can explain”

  256. Oh so now it’s, that wasn’t my committee, NAIL HIM JOHN!!!

  257. I see OldCoastie’s point. “John, John..”

  258. Now he’s hiding behind Biden!

  259. God I hate this guy. I love John though.

    WTF Barack.

  260. Obama is on the ropes.

  261. Obama: Biden did it for me!

  262. I think BO sounds quite irritating but that could just be me…

  263. Heidi——true, true. Health care is my biggest problem with McCain. Barky is rambling all over the place and sounding flustered.

  264. McCain doesn’t want to win this.

  265. Cripes. and BIDEN didn’t vote for the war??

  266. Wow. Disrespect.

    Looking for a great answer from McCain now.

  267. Why no hearing?

  268. 200 days in the Senate makes him an expert?

  269. McCain didn’t say that crap, that was Rumfield

  270. Obama is not even being logical now.

  271. angie, Thanks for noticing. I was a bit startled by my timing myself.

  272. The past doesn’t matter; the future does!

  273. B. is filibustering again.

    Mac: I am afraid Sen. Obama doesn’t understand the difference between a tactic and a strategy.

    Mac is on a roll!

  274. McCain needs to HIT him on the war history – McCain said form the BEGINNING it was being badly executed, we needed more troops. McCain is the one who got Rummy fired.

  275. I’d like to say Senator Obama doesn’t know the difference between a tactic and a strategy.

    Way to go JM

  276. Barry is NOT use to being smacked around…he’s only seen Hillary’s kid gloves.

  277. We were greeted like liberators at first. Remember the pulling down of the Saddam statue?

  278. B0 is trying his IWR BS again

  279. tactic/strategy line is indeed fabulous

  280. McCain is not letting Obama have the last word. Good!

  281. Obama shouldn’t fight the Iraq talking point – McCain can go into his military experience and ream his bony butt.

    Juanita’s Lunchbucket need more rice & beans – gimme more economy wonk!

  282. MAC: Sen. Obama just refuses to acknowledge that we are winning in Iraq.

    Petulant Boy mutters: “That’s not true.”

  283. Mac has a portrait in his attic which keeps him young. Oops, didn’t keep him from losing his hair.

  284. Uh-oh.

  285. I love that McCain ignores Obama.

  286. He keeps interrupting Mac and it is pissing me off!

  287. Obama is doing the irritating finger in the air thing again that he always did with HRC! He’s getting really irritated.

    He is completely out of his league with Mac on foreign affairs.

  288. It is true, that things have gotten better in Iraq. I didn’t think it would, but it has. Iraqis are turning in Al Queda (sp)

  289. Obama not only sounds annoying, he just did the smug look and now a finger has been raised.

  290. Mac is doing so much better than Obama.

  291. McCain does not come off as a typical Republican. But Obama does. Obama looks like he is posturing or posing. Obama reminds me of John Boehner types. Well rehearsed but likely to turn on the waterworks when the moment calls for it. There is something insincere about Obama. I am trying to pin it down.

  292. can someone stop him from constantly interrupting his opponent – bad, bad debate etiquette

  293. Somebody probably already said this, put I can’t help thinking that I would LOVE to hear Hillary’s answers to these questions.

  294. Mac is getting inside his head…

  295. I wish McCain were a bit more emphatic. But he may be more persuasive to some people this way. I don’t know.

  296. “Joe Biden knows more than I do”.

    And that goes a million fold for Hillary Clinton. If Democrats cared about knowledge or action, I wouldn’t be here.

  297. I know I hate BO — but I do like how Mac can give actual examples of things he’s done whereas BO can’t — of course, I like that about Hillary in the debates too, so what do I know?

  298. “I know the diff. b/ween tactics and strategy” mc hurt o’s ego

  299. This debate is going to be seen as a draw.

  300. I still can’t believe he answered the challenge re: not holding a hearing by saying:

    I am very proud of my VP.

  301. Hush up Obama! Let the ol’ dude talk!

  302. RD, I think maybe the insincerity comes because he’s a fake. Just my guess.

  303. Obama is looking like an ASS for continuing to interrupt McCain.

  304. obama cant stand that mccain is getting to him
    he cant stand it

  305. BO’s forehead is getting shiny…. he’s wearing a lot of makeup – wonder if it will run?

  306. Obama keeps interrupting!!

  307. My son just piped in ‘He is cutting off this kindly old man!’

    Obama does seem to be attempting to interupt and seeming to roll his eyes… while muttering ‘that is not true’.

  308. McCain has to be McCain. And he’s pressing Obama’s buttons big time.

  309. does obama use the royal “we”?

  310. McCain is starting to gain my vote

  311. about time – make barky answer first

  312. Heidi: Should we do a Bacardi shot everytime he wags the finger?

  313. I hope Obama cries.

  314. a draw is a win for Mccain because everybody expected obama to wipe the floor with mccain

  315. sm: you won’t make it to the end…

  316. Doubt it, Heidi Li. I’m anticipating the usual rigged hosannas for Obama.

  317. Talliban, Pockeystan

  318. Did Obama just say we need MORE troops in Afghanistan?

  319. are you sure you can handle your liquor? we still have a long ways to go and that finger doesn’t look the least bit tired 🙂

  320. Obama seems to have adopted a cadence like Martin Luther King. The same head movements when he punctuates his words. But it seems like he is trying to act older than his age. Maybe that is the source of the insincerity. His mannerisms don’t quite match his lack of gravitas.
    I know what it is!!!
    He doesn’t look grounded! McCain looks VERY grounded. You might disagree with what he’s saying but he looks like a 747 couldn’t knock him over. Obama looks like he could be picked up by a little gust of wind.

  321. I am now dreading the debate post-mortems from our friends (not so much) the mainstream media pundits.

  322. Do you think so Heidi. I think McCain is much stronger on foreign policy specifics and experience.

  323. Interrupting makes him look like an ill mannered jerk.

  324. Obama is always about Obama.

  325. I just poured my second glass of wine.

  326. Heidi Li, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:49 pm Said:
    This debate is going to be seen as a draw.

    _____________

    How do you think pre-debate expectations will play into the post-debate evaluations.

  327. Obama is an ill-mannered jerk.

  328. “a draw is a win for Mccain because everybody expected obama to wipe the floor with mccain…………”

    hahahaha — not anyone who has ever seen Barky debate before!!

  329. Obama looks like a clown talking about war

  330. jonas8 — you obviously didn’t see the memo the BO camp sent out to the press today reminding them about how bad BO is in debates — they are setting up a “draw” as a win for BO. Book it.

  331. fif, I think so, partly because of the varying reactions from folks on this thread…

  332. interrupting and eyerolling might undo Obama as much as Al Gore’s perceived impatience did in the 2000 debates.

  333. Don’t you just love Obama’s lapel pin? Just another thing he’s flip-flopped on.

  334. …and, fif, it is in the pundits’ self-interest to call it a draw so that they can keep ratings high for the next one.

  335. Is it me or is Obama rambling incoherently.

  336. Obama’s mannerisms are a holdover from when he practiced in the mirror. Or training his dog.

  337. “interrupting and eyerolling might undo Obama as much as Al Gore’s perceived impatience did in the 2000 debates.” – good point ugsome

  338. Pat Johnson, on September 26th, 2008 at 9:47 pm Said:
    I love that McCain ignores Obama.

    Hoping the American public takes his cue come November.

    (waves to fellow Conflucians, following a lengthy Texas-sized power outage)

  339. I just poured my second glass of wine.

    I’ll join you Pat!

    Great line about Pakistin with Mac: “You don’t do that–you don’t say that out loud.” Again, makes BO look like a novice. “What he doesn’t understand…”

  340. It doesn’t matter, fif. Obama could have passed out cold in the first second and our MSM friends would still laud his performance. 🙂

  341. “you don’t say that out loud” — McCain looked like the tribe elder schooling the young punk! LOL

  342. BO always strikes me as smart but physically slight and emotionally weak… that’s been my impression of him since the very beginning and he hasn’t changed my opinion at any point…

    yup – blow around in a slightest breeze…

  343. Edwardian: hi!

  344. Mac just kicked O’s ass on Pakistan “you don’t say that out loud…”

  345. LMAO! Hits Bambi on attacking Pakistan: “You don’t do that. And you don’t SAY that out loud!” (translation, this noob is gonna kill us all with his mouth)

  346. Hey, edwardian! 🙂 It’s been ages!

  347. McCain: Our letting Afghanistan go after the Soviets were driven out is spot on!

  348. Wow!

    McCain is taking Obama to school.

    Yikes!!!

  349. Obama started strong – but he’s fading fast, and this is just 50 minutes into the debate.

    McCain is cleaning is clock on Pakistan.

  350. Man of experience speaking rather than a fool with platitudes.

  351. McCain dealt with the Pakistan question well.

  352. BO is micromanaging. With JMc you get the larger picture. BO is busy defending himself. All right, Geography matters! Not just troops.

  353. “we should take them out” – speaks like W

  354. I don’t see how anyone watching would consider this a draw. McCain, imo, is doing a much better job.

  355. “nobody talked about attacking Pakistan”??!!

    I was jaw-dropped shocked when BO made that statement in one of the early debates!

  356. “unwilling to act” means what exactly, BO?

  357. angie, in a poll 59% of the people expected obama to win

  358. Seriously: but people are watching, and they can see who is obviously more knowledgeable and experienced. When they walk in that voting booth in 39 days, they are going to ask themselves: Who will protect me and my family?

    Are they going to choose an amateur? I sure hope not.

  359. Obama is sooooooooooooooo patronizing!

  360. pissy little punk got in a potshot

    will go over well with the hipster kids, not so much with grownups.

  361. I think it’s a draw so far. They are both making my eyes glaze over, but McCain appears more poised. I’m only watching tonight because my husband insisted and he’s now snoring on the sofa.

    I said it before, the person whose answers I would like to hear isn’t up there.

  362. he just said that he would take out pakistan again!

    what didn’t we hear correctly the first time he said it?

  363. RD: BO is insincere. Most sociopaths and people with NPD are insincere and phony.

  364. We should take them out? How nuanced.

  365. “TAKE THEM OUT????”

    That is not a good phrase to use against a nuclear powered country that is politcally unstable.

  366. I still can’t believe that Obama got this far. He just doesn’t do it for me, even with the sound off.

  367. “Take them out”–what does that mean?

  368. O Never said he wouldn’t attack Pakistan – I know the next commercial is now in the works – JSM’s face was THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT !!!

  369. I’m only watching tonight because my husband insisted and he’s now snoring on the sofa.

    Lol!

    ugsome: what did he say? I have him on mute.

  370. Mac is killing him on experience.

  371. Obama is complaining about “us” being ANTIDEMOCRATIC?!

  372. Oh, jonas8 — I didn’t mean to sound like I was disagreeing with you about people expecting BO to “win” — I’m just point out that the msm is going to spin a draw as a win — and the lemmlings will all agree.

  373. I can’t believe it either, RD. There’s no there there.

  374. ok who is winning?

    fuzzybeargville

    I took a 4.125 mile walk

  375. McCain is pointing out his years of experience. Obama can only point at the number of days he spent there.

  376. SM,

    I think he meant that he would take out bin Laden. It still sounds idiotic.

  377. I loved McCain’s comment on Obama saying he would bomb pakistan”you don’t say that out loud” HA!

  378. Hey, hey everybody: *I* don’t think it is a draw: I think it will be spun as such. But I would love to be wrong.

  379. If he wins, we will have four years of W.O.R.M. I wonder who the poor press secretary is going to be?

  380. Obama interrupting – not good-he looks agitated and short tempered -also not good

  381. Obama: “I will…”
    McCain: “I HAVE and I will..”

    O is way out of his depth.

  382. yes – bring up the dead soldiers bracelet! point made

  383. (smiles and waves to Pat and Seriously) 🙂

  384. McCain: I have a record. Obama?

  385. what is obama going to say now?? after giving mccain all the latitude to go into his experience and living history??

  386. Sugar says she is waiting for Obama to explode. I agree with her. He has a lot of repressed anger in there.

  387. Is kieth Oberblahman and tweety spitting sticky white stuff over obama’s performance-I cannot watch!

    fuzzybeargville

  388. “Me too!”

  389. Lookit me! I also care about stuff! What HE said!

  390. “I’ve got a bracelet too!”

    oh my…

  391. i have a bracelete too?? and then forget the name of the soldier??

  392. McCain is so connecting right now.

  393. I have a bracelet too???

  394. Oh no. “I’ve got a bracelet too.”

  395. Obama talking about the military. ROTFL!

  396. the “me too” raises it’s ugly head on the soldier’s bracelet – it so doesn’t make him look good, just that it’s jewelry

  397. I’m only watching tonight because my husband insisted and he’s now snoring on the sofa.

    I know, I know, I know!!!

  398. Obama couldn’t remember the name on “his” braclet.

  399. “I have a bracelet too.” Ha ha!

  400. Bracelet vs bracelet? WTF!

  401. “I’ve got a bracelet too.” From uh…..

    He had to look at it to remember the guy’s name?!

  402. Well, the peanut gallery (us) is unanimous on the “bracelet too” line.

  403. oops, that was supposed to be a response to RD’s post about the sound off and BO.

  404. I need to puke. “a Sergeant, a mother, I mean …”

  405. i know jonas8, that was sweet!

  406. So what do think is in Pakistan that obama thinks needs to be taken out? Didn’t he go there on vacation or something on his Indonesian passport?

  407. When is this over?

  408. HA! He might have gone to Afghanistan!

  409. Heidi, it will probably be spun as an Obama win. Why go for draw when they can go for win? It’s not like there’s any relation to reality, and all the pundits drip with hatred for anyone who dares oppose the Messiah.

  410. obama never went to afganistan before his european tour??? oh my

  411. I’m a subcommittee chairmen, and we take up issues in my subcommittee!

    again – point to JM

  412. I missed that–did he really compare bracelets????

  413. I think the point goes to McCain on foreign policy, you don’t say crap like “take ’em out”

  414. I have several bracelets and loads of earrings.

  415. fif: got up to get a drink: potshot was on the ‘bomb iran’ song.

  416. fuzzybear — I’m watching CSPAN. I haven’t watched MSNBC since January.
    Heidi — it ends at 10:30 EST

  417. sorry-Pat J and Gary is it going good or bad?

    Sm77-what is your take?

    fuzzybeargville

  418. Heidi Li: Not soon enough.

  419. Please make it stop. I don’t have that level of schadenfreude.

  420. New thread up! Everyone migrate!

  421. Jim L. is so much more pleasant than many of the MSM bobble heads.

  422. Did Obama really respond to the foreign policy question by referring to Biden?

    Also, the “I have a bracelet too!” reply was weak.

  423. iran is up now.

  424. New thread up top!

  425. Obama’s problem isn’t just that he was outclassed on foreign policy; he didn’t do all that great on the economy discussion either.

  426. Mc: What Senator Obama doesn’t seem to understand [insert everything here]…

  427. McCain can’t look at Obama. I think McCain detests him. It must be disconcerting for Obama.

  428. bostonboomer, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:03 pm

  429. poplicola: oh yes he did. He completely choked and then changed the subject.

    “I am very proud of my VP.” In other words: I have no experience, so I picked him.

  430. I can’t stand EITHER one. ACK.

    How about another March?
    Join us?

  431. What’s up with the League of Democracies?

  432. I think, Barky may get his a** handed to him in this debate

  433. bostonboomer, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
    lol!

  434. Mc: What Senator Obama doesn’t seem to understand [insert everything here]…

    AHHHHHHH. You guys are so great!

  435. “My guy’s name is LIVESTRONG.”

  436. Joan, that’s a good one. HAHAHAHA.

  437. Is anyone else sick of the term, “game changer?”

  438. There have been FIVE years of diplomacy with Iran via Europe!

  439. fuzzybeargville; great pre-debate warm-up. reserving review but McCain doesn’t look tired, old or particularly old, must be the lighting.

  440. McCain is going to nail him on this meeting w/this nutcases w/out pre-conditions.. Watch and learn.

  441. LOL “The brave hero of the 101st division, Mr….Lance Armstrong!”

  442. at least he didn’t say Corporal Klinger.

  443. It doesn’t mean you invite them over for tea.

    He is such a jerk. Everything is so precious with him. Backpedaling re: preconditions.

  444. McCain should keep saying, “What Senator Obama doesn’t seem to understand…….”

  445. i’minneedofjihad sounds right

  446. “I am a dinner jacket” is the best way to pronounce Ahmadinejad.

    Thanks for the tip Charles!

  447. There’s one he practiced in the mirror

  448. Anyone remember from The War Room when after the debate George S. runs into the room and says “Bush was on the defensive, keep repeating Bush was on the defensive”? Obama’s people keep repeating “We can all get jobs at Fannie Mae.”

  449. i dont have a seal yet LMAO

  450. don’t even have a seal yet…lol

  451. He’s still talking. Blah blah blah. Loves the sound of his own voice.

    “I’m not going to set the White House visitation schedule before I am president. I don’t even have a seal yet!!!!!”

    Snarky McCain.

  452. McCain is doing a great job in the debate. Obama, uh uh uhmmm, not so much. 😉

  453. HAHAHA. ‘What Sen. Obama doesn’t seem to understand……….” Go John.

  454. McCain:

    “I’m not going to set my schedule as the President of the United States; I don’t even have a seal yet.”

    pwnt

  455. It’s not just naive–it’s dangerous.

    That’s how I feel about Obama. We cannot afford his learning curve. It’s much too critical a time.

    WHERE IS HILLARY?!!

    He interrupts him again.

  456. wawawawawawa, uhuhuhuh

  457. fif, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:13 pm Said:

    “I’m not going to set the White House visitation schedule before I am president. I don’t even have a seal yet!!!!!”
    ———–

    HA! I just yelped “oh no he didn’t!” SO happily hollered, “Oh yes he did!!”

  458. GO JOHN. NAIL HIM, NAIL HIM.

  459. i dont care what the msm says…. when it comes to foreign policy, obama is getting owned

  460. He is completely contradicting himself re: preconditions.

    McCain just slam dunked him on Kissinger. Obama looked cowed.

  461. LMAO!!!!

    POW!!!

  462. I refuse to watch this Kabuki theater. From what you’all are reporting, I wonder if Bambi’s interruptions are a tactic that was devised beforehand to try to get McCain pissed off and display some of his famous “temper”? If so, it sure sounds like it is backfiring badly.

  463. I think Barry needs to change his thong now.

  464. God, I just can’t stand listening to him. McCain nailed him on the Kissinger thing. How arrogant to tell McCain how his own advisors think.

  465. salmonrising
    If anyone is getting pissed off it is Senator Obama. He started at the begining kind of aggressive, trying to bait Senator McCain, and keeps getting more flustered as the debate goes along. His own tactic (notice how defensive he got when schooled on the difference bgetween strategy and tactic) has been turned on him.

  466. Again: a little bit of naivete there. He doesn’t understand that Russia committed serious aggression against Georgia.

    I think McCain is creaming him.

  467. poplicola: He always reacts this way–in debates, interviews and press conferences. If anyone challenges him, he gets irritable and defensive. It makes him looks very immature.

  468. McCain is nailing it on Russia and the region too: “Watch Ukraine.”

  469. obama is just repeating his stump speaches

    mccain is coming with specifics

  470. “I agree” That’s it. good Lord!

  471. Obama: “I uh uh uh agree with what McCain said.

    Translation: I don’t know anything about Georgia or Russia. Can I buy a vowel?

  472. McCain has called Obama naive repeatedly. That is going to stick.

  473. Uh, um, Latvia, Estonia? Are those part of the 57 states?

  474. Did Obama just say he is NOW for offshore drilling and nuclear power? Huh??

  475. He’s trying to sound knowledgeable huh? I just see him (on mute) blathering on and on, trying to be important.

  476. He keeps interrupting him after talking endlessly. WHAT is his problem?! He is a child.

  477. McCain emphasizes his difference with this admin. again. He should do that a lot.

  478. Lesson of this debate:

    McCain – A Leader and man of action
    Obama – A Follower and a talker

  479. I don’t think Obama can NOT work across the aisles when he describes Republicans as having a spending ‘ORGY’! WOW, what a Freudian Slip that one was! :O

  480. Pat–are you passed out with an empty bottle by your side?

  481. Yea, he talks during his turn and during McCain’s turn too!

  482. Just went in and watched them for a bit—–ok, how can I say this without sounding racist? ok, I’ll say it–it struck me just watching-immediately that for some reason, Obama looks darker than usual–maybe it’s the lighting.

  483. We seem to come first circle again: Sen. Obama doesn’t get it.

  484. “Obama doesn’t get it”…

    Good one!

  485. btw, the idea of listening to Obama for the next four years just makes me ill. It’s been hard enough with Bush.

  486. Obama is blinking really fast and giving McCain that look…

  487. Woman V: Remember when he would look at Hillary with pursed lips like he wanted to kill her?

    I miss her. No one debates better than Hill.

  488. Obama has some very difficult sound effects to replicate…won’t try.

  489. Did anyone else wonder why the ‘reach across the aisle, transformative one’ didn’t manage to bring everyone together on the bail out bills

  490. Experience. McCain has it. Obambi doesn’t.

  491. He linked Obama with Bush!!!!!!!!!!!! ROTFL

  492. LMAO–
    McCain just linked Obama to Bush!

  493. Isn’t it supposed to end at 10:30?

    I honestly don’t believe that Sen. Obama has the knowledge or judgment. We have seen this stubbornness before–in this administration–to fail to acknowledge that he was wrong about the surge. We need more flexibility in a president. I know the veterans well, and they know I will take care of them. I love them, and they know I will take care of them. I have the ability and knowledge and background to keep this country safe, prosperous and secure. I don’t need any on the job training. I am ready to go at it right now.

    How can he respond to that?

  494. He’s remaining very cool. “I don’t need on the job training.” HA!

  495. Obama is more thin skinned than Bush.

  496. fif,

    Yup, Hillary was good, he would just say he agreed. He did that with McCain too on one question and it reminded me of those debates. That is one reason he doesn’t like debate, he wishes that he could read the teleprompter.

    Oooh…he is glaring at McCain.

  497. As president of the US, I know how to heal the wounds of war, I know how to deal with our adversaries.

    Excellent ending by McCain!

  498. Well, now we’ll see how the MSM spins it.

  499. My stomach is still tied up in knots.

  500. ahhhhh.. Obama looked more presidential… according to to chris matthews… that is the spin

  501. Obama had a lot of coaching. Perhaps that why he went back to using the teleprompter on his campaign trail. He didn’t have to think about what he was doing and save his energy for studying for this debate.

  502. I got flustered watching the debate. I miss Hillary.

  503. wow some on msnbc calling mccain the winner

  504. if palin can just hold her own, mccain might be able to pull this one out

  505. FOX says that Obama won the debate….

    I AGREE!

  506. NPR is spinning it as Obama held his own on foreign policy and McCain too strident and condescending.

  507. “Obama looked more presidential… according to to chris matthews”

    Translation: He looked like George W. Bush.

  508. Obama was well coached for this debate, but it was very obvious because he just seemed to be trying to get in all his talking points regardless of the content of the discussion. But he lost his cool time after time with the facial gestures, the finger pointing, the interruptions, and in terms of who appeared more in command, more confident, more presidential, I have to think the American public was watching President McCain.

  509. “Obama held his own on foreign policy ”

    He did marginally better than my next door neighbor, Larry, would have, I suppose….

  510. mablue LOL wow that is fast

  511. CBS IS DOING THE SAME ALMOST THE same wording holding his own. think j-mac spanked him& sent him packing

  512. The best one was when he said he hadn’t read (we haven’t seen the language yet?) the Biggest Bail OUT BILL in our history. WOW…he admitted it…then what was he doing at the big table if he didn’t know what the language of the bill was?

    The SEAL one was just too much, I was telling my friend and busted out laughing. That one was too funny and McCain got away with it with that smile of his. But BO gave him a big glare.

  513. Joule3, on September 27th, 2008 at 12:03 am Said:

    Interesting on Suburban Guerila. A link to vote for the winner of the debate goes to the Daily Kos site and there is only one name shown to vote for: Barky!
    …………………..

    That is so moveon.org!

    When I voted for Hillary they sent back an e-mail asking if I wanted to change my vote to Obama??????????

  514. I prefer someone who will ACT presidential, not someone who LOOKS presidential!

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