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Debate Live Blog: Thread 2

Join the debate.  What are you seeing and hearing?

To view Conflucian Style, try the following:

  1. First, watch it on C-Span where your propaganda filter is minimal.
  2. If you have a DVR, set the debate to record and watch it the first time through with the sound off.
  3. Then go through the DVR recorded portion, verrrrryyyy sloooowwwlly.  Take as much time as possible to parse every word until you get to its true meaning.


370 Responses

  1. I wish McCain brought up B0’s lack of activity in his Afghanistan subcommittee

  2. Obama is winning on points (barely). Clinton would have wiped the floor with McCain.

  3. Didn’t he? I thought he did twice?

  4. edge, McCain did bring up that point, hard, earlier in the debate

  5. Edge: He did.

  6. What is our leverage now that our own economy is on the ropes?

  7. He did mention his lack of committee NATO meetings, didn’t he?

  8. I’m going to watch it with the volume down while I play Dark Side of the Moon on the stereo.

  9. Sorry WigWag — imo Mac is winning on substance. But the press will spin it as a BO win.

  10. I don’t see bambi winning at all. Mccain is coming across much more likeable and capable

  11. That’s not the impression I’m getting, WW, from the other Conflucians.

  12. Hillary would’ve been respectful, too. She’s not a punk.

  13. I also think McCain is winning, both in terms of content and appearance.

  14. Thanks guys. I didn’t have TV in the beginning

  15. I love anytime Mc says, “What Senator Obama doesn’t seem to understand [insert everything here]…”

  16. BO’s face is getting sweatier… he’s having to work far too hard.

  17. I started watching around 9:25 and it’s been shockingly bad for Obama.

    Did he do that well the first 25 min?

  18. And bambi’s flippant response with respect to bracelet worn by the woman was so classless and mean

  19. angie, trying to be objective, McCain was incoherent when they were discussing domestic issues, McCain is better since they turned to foreign policy.

  20. I don’t think it will matter how the “win” is spun, or to who. There is so much for the GOP to put into the commercials that it will be like everyone saw the debate anyway

  21. Did he say that Iran is run by terrorists? Then why would he meet with the leaders without pre-conditions.

  22. Didn’t BO vote against declaring Iran as a “terrorist” organization? Was he Present during that vote, or just not there?

  23. he does not connect the dots

  24. The most important post debate question will be reaction of voters in swing states, esp. Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida.

  25. MABlue: He was much better in the first 15-20 minutes.

  26. I do wish they were sitting down though. McCain’s probably in some pain.

  27. Regency — LOL! I love when Mac does that too.

  28. he probably voted present – just like he did in the IL state senate

  29. Snap! Senator Obama would sit down with …..

  30. Regency, the McCain camp asked for the standing up format because they think McCain doe better standing.

  31. go John – smack him on meeting with Iran, Cuba and Venezuala (?) without pre-conditions

  32. I don’t know Regency — Mac looks like he is doing ok to me.

  33. Did he just diss John when John stuttered? WTF?!

  34. Senator Obama is a fool if he thinks China and Russia are going to cooperate in a meaningful way with the U.S., he’s truly nuts.

  35. BO doesn’t have stamina…

  36. Obama will win Pennsylvania. McCain will win Florida. Ohio is the key.

  37. Ahmadinejad is a hard name to say. Poor guy.

  38. I can’t help but look at these two guys and scream:

    Can we please have Hillary back now?

  39. BO doesn’t have smarts….

  40. what is BO laughing about?

  41. My God!

    Obama doesn’t understand foreign affairs any better than Palin. Fro real.

  42. Let me explain what “preconditions” means — f u BO.

  43. OK, this is getting to be comedy hour

  44. Oooo, let’s see if Obama knows history.

  45. I don’t think he’s getting Penn. , FL or Ohio.

  46. sorry I missed it sm-77 what is your take


  47. Foreign policy is McCain territory. But he is not wiping the floor with Obama. Obama did very well in the first part when they were talking about the financial crisis. He came in super-prepared and sort of said all of it by rote.

    McCain needs to prepare more. He has substance but so much of the debate is about projecting themselves. For now Obama does look like he has the edge.

  48. I’m not convinced BO will win PA…

  49. he doesn’t think Ahmadinejad is the right person to meet with in Iran?

    And I’ll meet with whoever I want to?

    You don’t just invite them over for tea

  50. I just got home from a ‘6th Grade parent party’, what have I missed??

  51. agreed Heidi Li.

    China and Russia will eat our lunch if obama is eleted president

    difference between pre-conditions and preparations???

    what is the difference??

  52. there’s a difference between pre-conditions and preparations

    does he know that difference?

  53. Once again, I am struck by McCain’s relatively calmness. He looks unflappable.

  54. Obviously no one up there really understands Putin and his motives. Bad, bad, bad.

  55. I’m watching “Con Air” on TNT

    Much more informative

  56. edge,

    McCain did bring up the subcommitte and went on for some time about it. BO defended himself by bringing up Biden being the head of the Foreign Relations Committee and then he rambled on for awhile without saying anything. McCain referred to it again in a snarky way later.

  57. It’s interesting that they’re the same on time. When Obama talks it feels like forever.

  58. On the other hand, that bracelet remark was idiotic 🙂

    And somebody must have told O that he must smile when he is being hit. He is sooooo not good at it. Look for those pained, pinched mouth smiles – it will brighten your evening.

  59. WigWag, Pennsylvania very close, but I basically agree with you.
    Shameless plug: The Denver Group/Democrats for Principle Before Party has already gathered info for running ads in Ohio and the ad will be finished by next week. Please, please ask people to send us $5 bucks if they can. We’ll put the ads on the website before they go on the air.

  60. RD – mac has faced much worse.

  61. The You Tube’s on this one is going to flood the inboxes.

  62. pls let him swish Ole’ Miss luck in beating Florida-Mary angels and all the saints please let obama wish Ole Miss luck!


  63. Heidi Li — I agree — BO doesn’t have smarts — I don’t understand why everyone raves about how smart he is. He is a slickly produced product and that is it. He has a complete lack of curiosity about what goes on outside his own little “world.” That is a sign of a serious lack of intelligence, imo.

  64. Con Air is really good. It’s a silly movie, but very entertaining.

  65. Sophie – That’s what I’m thinking.

    BO was really, really good in the first 25 minutes. The only problem is, he came as Hillary Clinton, not as himself. Every single point he made was verbatim what Hillary laid out in the WSJ, and what we all blogged about.

    It only made me miss her more, because frankly, I think he was coached within an inch of his life, and I have no faith that he truly, truly understands what he was saying.

  66. rd – could it be that Mac looks calm because BO looks so twitchy?

  67. “They tested a nuke.”

  68. Rambling.

  69. I like McCain better as a human being, but I ‘m more in line with Obama’s supposed positions.
    McCain praising Reagan to the skies and equating the survival of Israel with our own and his insistence that we could have “won” the Vietnam war if….if what? if only those dirty hippies-like me-had kept their mouths shut?
    As of this moment, I’ll shove India rubber up both nostrils and roll the dice on the woefully unprepared Obama. What say you?

  70. OOH! Brought up the seal!

  71. Good one about the seal!

  72. Can anybody follow what Obama is saying. He rambles so much that I become annoyed.

  73. big point to John – I don’t even have a seal yet!

  74. hearing bo talk is like following the rotations of a washing machine – gives you a headache

  75. OOOH!!!! “I don’t even have a seal yet”


  76. Katiebird: “When Obama talks it feels like forever.”

    I know what you mean.

  77. OOOOOH he got his potshot back!

    McCain’s starting to wake up a bit

  78. BO is still trying to interrupt Mac! He is incapable of allowing the spot light to be on anyone else.

  79. McCain rocks!

  80. More details on the media plan from Dems for Principle Before Party: we have two ads prepared especially for Fla and MI. We have a truly devastating one that is prepared for Ohio, Pennsylvania, and any other swing states we can afford to buy in.

  81. madamab: that’s what I was saying earlier in the family room: Stop channeling Hillary!

  82. Love the seal remark. Obama doesn’t have the ability to snark like that. He’s humor impaired.

  83. Heidi and WigWag: From what my relatives there tell me, Obama will NOT win PA.

  84. Obama isn’t so much smart as educated. Big difference b/t the two.

  85. McCain is now crushing Obama

  86. Uh, no BO — you are WORMing — that was exactly what your position was — I saw that debate.

  87. You’re not alone, MABlue. His rambling is making me dizzy.

  88. I must say that Obama having to look at his notes to recall the name of the Army mother who gave him a bracelet was bad.

  89. It will sink him in Fla! Please have Obama say-” i wish Ole’ Miss luck in their game tommorrow!”


  90. BB:

    That’s exactly what I said. I have a tough time listening becauswe he rambles and jumps all over the place.

  91. SweetSue: the operative word is “supposed.” His SUPPOSED positions. What ARE his positions? We can’t really know. That’s the problem.

  92. What say you?

    No way. There is nothing in this world that ‘ll convince me to vote for Barky. Ever. For any office.

  93. Go McCain!!!!!!!!

  94. I thought Obama was supposed to be trying to bring out McCain’s temper? Obama is the one who has looked and sounded mad since about 5 minutes in. I wish I had a gallon of gas for every time Obama has either tried to interrupt or stuck his finger up and smiled at the moderator, or McCain has said “Senator Obama doesn’t understand”.

  95. Senator Obama: you did in fact talk about just popping in for chats with world leaders.

  96. “Oh please” — my sentiments exactly.

  97. Good one from John!

  98. CNNs Schneider has been saying at their ticker that McCain keeps scoring points and looks stronger…and he hits Obama for low blows,

  99. Let’s count how many times Barry says “the notion”

  100. The religious leader is the most powerful person in Iran-not the President is what he was trying to say. W.O.R.M.

  101. obama talking while McCain is speaking is really bad form

  102. BO’s twitching and interrupting is what makes him look like a little kid next to Mac.

  103. “Wha wha wha wha look….uh uh uh Sen Sen Senator McCain bla bla bla…

    McCain wipes the floor with him….

  104. McCain is making a fool of Obama!

  105. FUZZY: My Juanita Lunchbucket take is that McCain is coming off confident and knowledagable. Obama is defensive & rambling.

  106. OK, are you all feeding JSM live? Preconditions not preparation, etc.

  107. is putin the right person to speak to?

  108. Obama’s voice puts me to sleep.

  109. i dont see how obama was so much better in the beginning. i didnt get taht

  110. Jim Lehrer is trying to protect Obama. Why?

  111. Obama goes off into a 6 lane highway with his explanations. Hard to follow.

  112. Ah ha, Senator McCain just followed coaching from people upthread re preparation/precondition wiggle/fudge.

  113. south assetia – he doesn’t even know how to pronounce the country’s name

  114. Do the college kids care if he interrupts? They probably think it’s the best thing since popcorn.

  115. Let us google Kissinger and whatever…

  116. how is he trying to protect him?

  117. McCain just had a terrific 45 min.

    What a beating Obama took!

  118. I got to the debate late… I am wondering what I missed at the beginning… why is Obama pissed at McCain? I saw Obama ‘me too’ when McCain told the story of the bracelet he wears. Seems to me Obama gets more time, he also attempts to interrupt alot. He’s talking really fast. The camera shows Obama smirking alot.

    McCain finally got mad. McCain looked better as he was staying calm. (Obama just gave Lehrer permission to speak.)

    I just don’t like Obama. He still seems snobby to me but I have no idea how undecideds will look at him. To me, he and Biden are a good team.. both bloviators. He’s really pushed out of shape tonight… odd. I understand where the Dem party is getting it.

  119. this is washing machine on spinning cycle – hard to follow

  120. bb — I don’t think Lehrer is protecting BO — I think he is trying to keep them both on time.

  121. I think there will be a generation gap in assessing the debate. The older crowd which values experience and respect will go McCain, the younger crowd who likes sass and attitude will go Obama. But we knew that.

  122. “looking into Putin’s eyes and seeing his soul” is Bush’s remark, not McCain’s. McCain saw KGB in Putin’s eyes.

  123. Obama is educated. McCain is smart. Hillary is both. Neither of these two have earned my vote. I am merely grateful to John for beating up on Barack.

  124. I cannot stand either one of them.
    Even my Republican-lite, Libertarian, Fox-loving, straight hairdresser said, today, “I wish Hillary was in the running.”

  125. It seems like Obama makes his voice deeper when he gets attacked.

  126. “Naivete”. The KGB line.

  127. If the debate were the deciding factor, Obama would lose. He does not inspire confidence in the viewer. His mannerisms are too much like a preacher. McCain looks like he could weather any storm. Obama looks like he is performing.

  128. Ugsome — are you coaching Mac! Zowie!

  129. “The Bracelet comment” lost him the soldier vote.

    I can see the next McCain ad already being made as we speak.

  130. sweet sue and Sophie: I completely agree with each of you.

  131. Thank you RD! That is exactly what I have been thinking but hadn’t been able to put it into words.

  132. my bubbabear says mccains looks like a mortitian did his make up -he hates obama-worried nixon 1960 vs kennedy!


    sm77 pat gary some one my sweet arabella give me some good news!


  133. angie: he’s reading my mind.

  134. From the other side of the aisle and it’s spot on:

    What strikes me most about this debate is how often Obama dissembles — both about what he has said in the past and his policies. Say what you might about McCain, but you cannot say he dissembles.


  135. BO doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in OH, and he’ll be really lucky to win PA.

  136. Funny, Obama is wearing a flag lapel pin and McCain is not. Clear for anyone to see whether or not it’s a true sign of patriotism.

  137. Hi Juanita Lunchbucket!!! (waving to SM)

    By the end of this campaign, Obama is going to be fully grey.

  138. I can follow McCain but Obama loses me.

  139. McCain is emphasizing his hands-on experience. “I went here, I went there…”

  140. I am with Sophie. Is it a good thing for JMc to keep saying BO does not understand?

  141. angie, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:15 pm Said:
    “Oh please” — my sentiments exactly.

    Wish he’d said that in response to Obama’s “I was against the Iraq war six years ago” crap.

  142. McCain is a good storyteller. Obama can’t do that.

  143. I thinkd McCain is much better in a debate than he is in a prepared speech. I’m impressed with McCain’s delivery.

  144. obama: what he just said about russia.

  145. I can’t bear watching this debate. I’m just reading the comments here and watching clips later. Right now it looks like people are split as to who is winning. I don’t think there is really a clear winner here.

  146. Fuzzy, McCain hit it out of the ballpark on the Russia question

  147. he doesnot not have an answer – so you say you agree

  148. “I agree with Sen McCain. And Sen Clinton. And Bill Clinton. And Ronald Reagan. And Joe Biden. Hell, I agree with everybody!”

  149. He’s me too’ing Mac on Russia! Of course, because BO knows nothing about Russia!

  150. ahhh – we need to have foresight

  151. What say you? “We are a coalition of millions with one thing in common — NObama!” Just a reminder of why we’re all here, with all due respect. Also, please remember this is a two-party contest. A vote for a third party, a write-in vote, or no vote is essentially a vote for BO. As a now-former Democrat, I will cast my vote where it will have the greatest impact in stopping BO — a vote for McCain/Palin.

  152. Barry just did “the notion that somehow” again…

  153. Obama has started the “Metooism” strategy he used in the primary vs HRC.

  154. he warned the white house in april about the russia/georgia thing?

  155. I think they are pretty evenly matched–this has been a good debate.

  156. Riverdaughter, Obama will get a huge African American turnout in the Philadelphia area that will carry the day for him there. In Florida, McCain will win big in the pan handle, the central part of the state and the west coast of Florida. This will carry the day for McCain in Florida,

    In Ohio, I don’t have a clue. There is a poll that shows Obama 5 points up in Virginia. I still don’t think Obama will win virginia, but if he does, he is a good bet to be elected. Hopefully, Heidi Li will have some money left over to run ads in Virginia.

  157. vivienne westwood: exactly!

  158. I haven’t heard Obama say anything he didn’t say in the primary (although he is denying some of his statements) but I like McCain’s experience. I am learning something from McCain.

    ack! Obama just said he agrees.

    I wonder if the NYT will have up it’s counter on the debate. It showed the words and the minutes Clinton and Obama each got in the primary debates. It just seems Obama talks more.

  159. Hi MadamaB!!!

    Fuzzy: Bubbabears hug the best!

  160. You’re so right vivienne! That’s exactly what he does, he did it with Hillary all the time!

  161. BO is trying to sound smart and wise now on Russia…

  162. Mac is def. winning the debate — the only reason we can’t see it is because we all know how much better Hillary would have been then Mac.

  163. “why is Obama pissed at McCain”

    Because, like Bush, he can’t stand being challenged. The mildest questioning sets him off.

  164. McCain speaks with the authority of experience about Russia and Georgia and the Ukraine. Obama lectures, it all sounds theoretical.

    Joe Sixpack is going to feel safer with McCain.

  165. Now he’s stealing from McCain’s answer like he used to with Hillary.

  166. is he trying to steal McCain’s energy policy/position?

  167. He just stole mac’s “walk the walk” line! What a buffoon.

  168. talking more does not help obama since he just loses people

  169. Seriously, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:20 pm Said:

    BO doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in OH, and he’ll be really lucky to win PA.

    I spoke with a Precinct Leader in PA, and she called themselves the wounded Republicans, they’ll never deliver a R presidency. This was a few months ago though. Has that changed?

  170. 300 million people and these two guys are the best we can do? God help us all.

  171. how did we get from dealing with russia to solar panels?

  172. My brain somehow tunes out when Obama speaks.

  173. shut up barack—the man’s talking! He doesn’t interrupt you

  174. His interrupting John is HORRIBLE!

  175. “winter’s comin’ and home heating oil.” Mr. Arugula tries to sound like the common man by dropping his ‘g’s’ again. Yawn.

  176. The bracelet thing was terribly offensive. Obama was a total jerk and didn’t even remember the name of the soldier he was “honoring.” It was so tacky that I turned the debate off soon afterwards. I figured you could all watch it for me.


  177. I’d say Obama is pissed at the world. And in love with himself.

  178. I am never ever ever helping or voting for Obama. And I honestly understand why many people will put their vote for McCain.

  179. Obama took the Russia and he attacked McCain about offshore drilling and nuclear energy. McCain does not do much to defend himself, he does not interrupt at all. Is it strategy?

  180. can we have Hillary back now?

  181. Obama – stop INTERRUPTING!!

    This is a DEBATE. Everybody gets a turn to talk & defend themselves.

  182. how magnaminous of him! he couldn’t continue to interrupt McCain so he give Lehrer permission to move on

  183. I like how McCain keeps talking when Obama tries to talk over him. Obama always has to have the last word and McCain is not letting him and just calmly keeps talking. Obama tries to have last word, McCain keeps talking and Obama gets frustrated, gives in and says ‘lets move on’

  184. My third glass of wine dulls the pain to a large degree.

  185. If Obama talks over McCain another time, I swear I’ll break my TV! And McCain is the one with a short fuse? Give me an effing BREAK!

  186. WigWag: Pennsylvanians are majorly pissed at being called racists. When my relatives in Pittsburgh, in the blue collar sector say he doesn’t have support, you really have to worry. Obama is really not well liked at all in PA. Philadelphia might be an exception. But Central and Southwest? He doesn’t have a prayer.

  187. In PA, Ohio, and Michigan: we have to reach people who are being manhandled/pressured/scared into voting for Obama.

  188. NV, a friend of mine is a precinct leader in Pittsburgh, and he thinks PA is pretty iffy. He really thinks it could go either way.

  189. “McCain does not do much to defend himself, he does not interrupt at all. Is it strategy?”

    where I come from its called good manners

  190. Finally Mac tries to talk over BO (when BO interrupted him in the first place) and now Lehrer says “one at a time?” A big F U to Lehrer too.

  191. Pat Johnson

    Wine. Yes. That’s the ticket.

  192. I’m so glad I made the decision not to support BO in this election. If I was a BO supporter, I’d be a wreck watching him in this debate. For all of the prep he supposedly did, he’s not doing well.

  193. Schneider: Another cheap shot?
    Posted: 10:19 PM ET

    From CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider

    (CNN) — McCain almost certainly misspoke when he said he wouldn’t speak with Spain…I am not sure that’s a fair thing for Obama to call him on.

  194. I apologize if it was rude to talk about the ads Dems for Principle Before Party want to run in the swing states. I’m just so worried about them.

  195. DV, turn it on, it’s okay. McCain has Obama on the ropes.

  196. Oh YES! (What Heidie said at 10:26)

  197. indigogrrl, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:27 pm Said:

    “McCain does not do much to defend himself, he does not interrupt at all. Is it strategy?”

    where I come from its called good manners

    idigogrrl — It’s also called proper debate etiquette.

  198. I can live with Mac. And how on earth did we get from Russia to energy policy? Was I not paying enough attention?

  199. Whoa! Pat! I’m jealous you’re way ahead of me….I’m cravin’ me some Pinot!! 🙂

  200. Schneider: Obama takes a cheap shot
    Posted: 10:00 PM ET

    From CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider

    OXFORD, Mississippi (CNN) – Cheap shot from Obama, saying that McCain has sung songs about bombing Iran.

  201. Pat, I’m on my first. Going into mellow mode and I need it.

  202. I’m guessing that if McCain did debate prep, it was specifically geared to what to do WHEN Obama interrupted…

    it’s a bad habit of his… they knew it was coming…

  203. I guess Obama’s strategery of trying to piss McCain off hasn’t worked

  204. I’m worried about the swing states (not the ads).

  205. Regency: It’s called hopscotch!

  206. Thank you HL. Because I’m damn sure voting for McCain. It’s a bit of revenge mixed in with horror at the thought of Obama in the White House. Obama just plain gives me the willies.

  207. Regency — BO lost me on the Russia/energy policy segue too.

  208. An observation…ever since Jeralyn drank deeply from the Kool-Aid, her commenter numbers have been dropping. Tonight is a good example – The Confluence is beating the pants off their “discussion”.


  209. watch – I bet BO has to have the last word…

  210. Schneider: McCain scores points on experience
    Posted: 09:59 PM ET

    From CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider

    Watch: Sen. McCain outlines differences between his plan for the presidency and Sen. Obama’s plan.

    OXFORD, Mississippi (CNN) — McCain, in talking about Afghanistan and Pakistan, is drawing on his vast experience for the first time in this debate, and it really sounds very convincing.

  211. A big F U to Lehrer too.

    Yeah, Obama has been interrupting McCain ALL NIGHT, and he didn’t say squat, but jumps in the first time Mac does it.

  212. Don’t apologize, Heidi. I’ve seen you comment in the past and I always mean to contribute but then it leaves my mind just that quickly. Keep reminding me. I need it.

  213. I watched only the last hour and McCain won BIIIIG!

  214. It’s also not pissing off swing voters. Being a petulant jerk doesn’t play well with them

  215. TIML, thanks for the updates from CNN

  216. Everytime I switch over from the movie bonehead is talking.

    Does he ever shut up?

  217. I’ve been abstaining from the drinking tonight – but I think I’ll have to go find the bottle just from listening to the circular spinning on the right side of the TV

  218. this is a bad response about 9/11 happening again

    it was obama’s chance to connect emotionally with people and he goes on into the specifics of port security???

    ok now he goes into restoring the US’s reputation, he should have started with it though

  219. heidi: No need to apologize. It is important to remind people, like me!

  220. Several of Obama’s snipes this evening have confirmed my assessment that he is a small, small man.

  221. Heidi: No worries – after tonight, I think you’ll do great there!

  222. “Sen Obama just does not understand” is the best line of opposition in the debate. It will stick.

  223. No myiq2xu — BO can’t stand not having the spotlight on himself.

  224. Britannia, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:21 pm Said:
    McCain is a good storyteller. Obama can’t do that.

    Yep, maybe if he had “made his bones” or waited a few years or even pulled his weight in the Senate he’d have a story or two.

  225. I can live with Mac. And how on earth did we get from Russia to energy policy? Was I not paying enough attention?

    Regency: I was paying attention. He just made the leap. Zero coherence. If you insist on the exact channel it was

    Russia – security – energy important for security – nuclear power – McCain voted against alternative energy bill, offshore drilling is important etc etc.

  226. If everybody on this thread sends five dollars for ads, that would buy one TV ad.

    We want to raise about $10,000 but we can do a lot with $5000.

  227. what i like about mccain speaking its that he modulates his voice as he is speaking to connect emotionally with people

    obama just speaks down to us

  228. I’m guessing Obama and McCain have never been on opposing sides of an issue debated in the Senate. This looks like O’s first outing vs. the old man… given his significant leadership in the Senate, one would expect that bHO has been on the receiving end of McCain’s note of how wet he is behind those cab door ears and would be more self-preserving in his approach. One problem with upstarts trying to turn the page on the bigger dawgs…in thirty plus years, those geezers have acquired a taste for new blood.

  229. Now he’s talking over Leher too?! Good grief.

  230. Heidi: I can donate tonight. Right after this circus is over.

  231. Link to contribute on your website, Heidi?

  232. Sha: you don’t know the half of it. the blog stats are going through the roof on the debate threads.

  233. And what have the Democrats focused on, Barry? You?

  234. MABlue, McCain started out a little slow, but Obama didn’t do all that well at the beginning, either. And about 10 minutes in, he started the floundering.

  235. “cab door ears” HAHAHAHAH ROFLMAO

  236. janicen – I agree.

    The part Obama really messed up was talking about the war in Iraq. He kept going back to the past and making the “right judgment,” but he didn’t tie it to anything meaningful, because he couldn’t. What opposition did he actually make once he got into the Senate? He said he agreed with Bush in 2004!

    The second point he kept hammering home was Afghanistan. But where are you going to get the troops, Obama? Are you going to move our troops, on their third and fourth extended tours in Iraq, into Afghanistan without a break? And did you all notice that his language about the war has completely changed now? That 16-month deadline is for “most combat troops” now. Remember when it was a full withdrawal?

    Oh, those poor bots. They’re probably all thinking Obama is doing fabulously, though.

  237. It seems like every time McCain gets on a roll, Lehrer tries to stop him and change the subject. It’s as if he doesn’t want McCain to beat up on poor inexperienced Barack. Hey, he wanted to run for president even though he wasn’t ready. Actions have consequences.

  238. Senator Obama is on a horse so high that when he falls off his head will explode from the change in air pressure.

  239. Obama studied well this week with (what I “heard” ),Castro’s lawyer.
    McCain could have put him AWAY @ the beginning just by saying:
    “Barack…..my name is JOHN”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  240. Anyone who wants to contribute to Heidi’s ad can hit the Democrats for Principle before Party button on the left side panel.

  241. RD, that’s a good sign. You’re getting a big viewership tonight.

  242. I wrote this on the other thread, but I’m going to repeat it here — my Republican boss (not a political junkie and not a hard right nut job) saw for the first time an ad about the whole “no 3rd term” thing and thought it was the dumbest thing he ever say. He said “who in the world doesn’t know that McCain is not Bush” — I think his views are those of most of America — the “no 3rd term” thing only works with the left.

  243. crumb and we have how many more of these? I want it over I will just be so sad if Obambi is our president and the country goes to shit and the Democrats are ruined for 30 years!


  244. Heidi Li, it’s not rude at all to talk about the ads in swing states to be placed by Democrats for Principle Before Party. I’ve contributed, and will do so again, and I urge those with the means to do so as well. My sincere thanks for all that you and Marc are doing to uphold the principles and processes of democracy. The ads and your blog spots are excellent and powerful.

  245. Wow!!! McCain just compared Obama to Bush!!!

  246. well, the audience reaction is definitely favoring obama. as well as the independents… line goes down every time McCain talks, red line goes up

  247. Ok. Where have I been? This is cool blog. Hi all.

  248. S, Pat, Angie: THank you! I knew I wasn’t crazy.


  249. OMH — Mac is comparing BO to Bush — you go Big Mac!

  250. RD– check your e-mail. I promised a poem, and Obama is beginning to fulfill my condition that he has to lose this election…

  251. To contribute to Democrats for Principle Before Party, go to http://tdg.typepad.com/democrats_for_principle_b/

  252. McCain compares Obama to Bush in being stubborn in clinging to beliefs in the face of contrary facts. Ha!


  253. Whoa!!! I honestly don’t believe that Sen Obama has the knowledge or experience!!!! Go Johnny!

  254. CK, I respect your choice and I expect respect for mine whatever it will be in November.
    We all came here because we were Hillary supporters who had been driven away from our home blogs.
    Mine was Eschaton.
    I’m devestated that Hillary was elbowed aside by the DNC and the Clintons are my political ideals-not idols- but ideals.
    I can’t vote for McCain, although I think he’s a good man, because of his wrongheaded policies. It will be very difficult for me to vote for Obama because of the way the system was gamed for ta light weight line jumper (not to mention his obnoxious and scary fans), but I may have to roll the dice for at least a hope of competency.
    That’s the snapshot of where I am at this moment.
    All of us will have to make our decisions when the time comes.

  255. yep, tpt/ny. McCain should have accused Obama of having a “senior moment”.

  256. McCain compares Obama to Bush, indirectly.

  257. Here we go with the father who deserted him. Give me a break! Next the mother and food stamps.

  258. Sen. McCain is darn right to compare Senator Obama’s blindness to reality to W’s.

  259. timl…..

    I saw Obama’s face when he made the crack about McCain singing about Iran. Obama paused for the laughter and applause he is fed on the campaign trail. The absence was apparent on his face.

    I’m sure Obama will agree with Schneider that it bombed, bombed, bombed.. 🙂

    Obama says this country is the greatest.. again.

  260. McCain is pissing Barky off by coming across as the wise old statesman, and subtly but kindly dismissing “junior”.

    That is NEEDLING the hell out of Obama.

  261. again kenia….whas is the news on the birth certificate?

  262. Obama is so rude! Will other people notice that?

    Also, I don’t agree with A LOT of what McCain says — He doesn’t speak for me at all. But, I seem to be able to listen and understand him.

    Obama’s words just flow right past me. My brain can’t latch onto him at all.

    Is this a common problem? Or is it just my antipathy to him?

  263. “McCain compares Obama to Bush in being stubborn in clinging to beliefs in the face of contrary facts.”

    That was a brilliant point by McCain, in my opinion

  264. “My father came from Kenya”: WHO the heck cares?

  265. Britannia: This isn’t an anomaly for this site. We always have extraordinary readership on debate night. I suspect that there are operatives analyzing our every word.
    Wave to them. “hi!”

  266. Heidi Li — I pledge $50 a pay check (every 2 weeks) starting this Monday (pay day). I’ve been meaning to do that for a while now because I so admire you and what you have done, but family obligations (dad had a heart attack, had to fly home– he is fine now etc) created some unexpected expenses over the summer so that my “extra” went to Hillary. But I will start this Monday, and thank you for your hard work.

  267. Always keep in mind that John Kerry wanted John McCain for vice president.

  268. “Senator Obama is on a horse so high that when he falls off his head will explode from the change in air pressure.”

    LOL, Heidi Li – thanks!

  269. Well Done, All!!!

  270. I don’t know why, but I’m kinda feeling sorry for Obama. This was bad.

  271. Angie, your boss is smart and was probably one of those pissed off Rs against McCain for McCain/Feingold, gang of whatever, etc. One of my bosses said McCain was a chicken for calling off the debate (and he’s a R).

  272. And Senator Obama, my husband’s friends and family members in India ALL want to come to this country because of the opportunities available here.

  273. BO just said “Good job John” — I heard it on CSPAN.

  274. “My father came from Pittsburgh, and he actually stuck around to have some influence in my life”
    – Riverdaughter

  275. Hi viewers! 🙂

  276. Obama dismisses McCain just like he did Hillary in the debates.

  277. McCain said Obama is Bush?! That was freaking brilliant, because it’s TRUE.

    Wow! Could I actually like McCain a little bit?


  278. U.S. Marshals is just starting on TNT

    Anything with Wesley Snipes and Tommy Lee Jones is gotta be good

  279. Hate MO’s dress btw. What is that stupid black lace up the back on that floral print?

  280. i hate the wives shot. it just reminds me that hillary is not there

  281. My husband says Obama reminds him of… Dick Cheney.

  282. “McCain compares Obama to Bush in being stubborn in clinging to beliefs in the face of contrary facts:

    Good one. BO reminds a lot of people of Bush, but they’re afraid to say it out loud. But they all nodded at that.

  283. I love Cindy’s dress and hair.

  284. madamab: McCain actually said that? If so, I’m going to have to check out that clip later.

  285. Now teh bloviating gasbags will tell you what you just saw with your own lying eyes and ignorant ears

  286. riverdaughter, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:37 pm Said:

    “My father came from Pittsburgh, and he actually stuck around to have some influence in my life”
    – Riverdaughter

    Quote of the thread.

  287. Didi we just sit by and watch another human being take some vicious beating?

    Shame on us!

  288. 10 bucks sez that not a single bloviating gasbag will say John won

  289. Don’t know about anyone else, but John McCain sure as heck didn’t lose this one.

  290. CBS gasbag says Obama “held his own”. More like STROKED his own.

  291. RD – LOLOLOL

    Yeah, like Obama knows ANYTHING about his father. I am so over his pathetic obsession with someone who didn’t love him. Aren’t we a little tired of narcissists with Daddy issues sitting in the Oval Office?

    I know I am!

  292. Barack Obama made some real mistakes tonight. He beat McCain hands down when they were discussing domestic issues. McCain did better on the foreign policy issues. Obama should have worked harder to answer the questions by making them relevant to domestic concerns. His failure to do this hurt him.

    But still McCain looked awkward. Although we all hate Obama, I think an objective person would have to say Obama won on points. At best it was a draw for McCain.

    The problem McCain has is that he is behind in the electoral vote. Obama is probably leading McCain by at least 40 electoral votes maybe more.

    McCain needed to do better. McCain may get a little bump but not as much as he needed.

    The economy is collapsing, McCain is in a tough spot. He needs to think of something that will be a game changer.

  293. jonas8, on September 26th, 2008 at 10:38 pm,
    Agreed. And can you imagine if instead of a “wives shot”, President Clinton came out to shake hands!

  294. MABlue – quit feeling sorry for him…remember what they all did to Hillary.

  295. politico editor in chief thinks they were evently matched

    thinks bo was cool and mac had more connection with the subject/audience

    bbc commentar: thinks bo was hesitant and not very crisp given how much prep goes into this

    reply of politico: ohh – thats just bo style….pleeaaze

  296. katiebird: Obama speaks in paragraphs where most people speak in sentences. This is why he is not easy to follow. Whovever said he was a great speaker is relying solely on written texts he expounds from a teleprompter. A great speaker helps you to understand. He fails the test.

  297. Heidi, I’d send money, but there’s a rumor my bank won’t be open Monday and I don’t know if it’s a buyout or a shutdown.

  298. Dang! No one told me you guys were up here.

  299. MABlue,

    I know what you mean. It was embarrassing. But I’m hardening my heart. Remember, we could have had Hillary.

  300. myiq – If you’re going to watch that movie, I suggest you drink at least one beverage of choice first.

    It’s just terrible – and I say that as a girl who loves action movies.

  301. Fox doesn’t think there was a sound bite that stuck out… I thought, “I have a bracelet too!” stuck out like a giant sore thumb… sums up BO quite well…

  302. did mccain make a carol haka? 👿

  303. Heidi, everytime they say one of these two men will be the president of USA, i cringe on the word MEN

  304. Woman on Fox for Forbes (or Fortune?) Mag: I think it was a really good night for McCain. McCain made several attacks and it knocked Obama off balance.

  305. Well, I call it for McCain. He was understandable, connected with the audience, had Obama on the ropes, and his experience came through. He seemed likeable too. What did Obama say?

  306. “Senator Obama is on a horse so high that when he falls off his head will explode from the change in air pressure.”

    Heidi Li


  307. I drunk-blogged it. I may need to sleep soon. It’s been 5 shots of voidka…

  308. Obama speaks in free verse poetry like some stoned beatnik

  309. Just contributed to the Denver Group, Heidi Li. Thank you for the reminder.

  310. Ok, friends. Now must step away from computer, do some work and worry that the country and the Democratic Party will end up stuck with Senator Obama and his ilk for the next 4 to twelve to 18 years no matter what I can think of doing!

  311. My father is from across the street and I haven’t seen him sinc emy high school graduation in May–but he emailed me today!

    See, that’s not nearly as funny at RD’s thing.

  312. now i have to take my 7 seven year old to bed, she wanted to see the debate but fell asleep in the middle

  313. I haven’t seen so much beating since Mel Gibson got hold of Jesus in his movie.

    I feel like I just watched the “Passion of the Christ”.

  314. The spin on Fox is definitely pro McCain: Obama bland and supports earmarks. McCain got under Obama’s skin.

  315. Forbes Woman (Nina): There is still something bland and policy speak about Obama that doesn’t do well in these settings.

    Kristol agrees. I don’t think it was close. Obama first round, and Obama every other round. No knock out or knock down. McCain got under Obama’s skin–he got him visibly irritated and frustrated.

    That’s exactly what I saw.

  316. Heidi Li – $100 to you – split it up between me and some of our friends here who may not be able to afford to help right now

    Do us proud!

  317. Here go the jerks on MSNBC: Did not look at BO, so he wasn’t Presidential. McCain was dismissive and contemptuous of BO and the American public won’t like that.

    But Tweety, we do!

  318. Juan Williams: “I thought Obama was on offensive all night. I thought Obama put McCain on the defensive all night.”

    WHAT??? No way.

  319. Oh wait! I am back because somebody wonderful from this thread just made a generous donation to Democrats for Principle Before Party.

    Thank you. And thank you Conflucians for keeping me company during the debate.

  320. From what I saw, the debate was a draw.

    McCain will have to bring out the big guns now. He will have to hit Obama hard, using some of the bad moments from the debate, and the 527’s will have to start bringing up all the crazies Obama surrounds himself with.

    Obama was too good on the economy because he stole Hillary’s plan, and that’s what is on everyone’s mind at this moment. He really said what I wanted to hear, at least when he was pretending to be Our Lady of the Pantsuit.

  321. Williams: McCain fulfilled his mission for tonight: to repeat that Obama is naive, doesn’t understand, etc.

  322. I missed the first half, but it seemed to me that Obama was saying a lot of nothing. He talks in circles.

    I like the point McCain made at the end about experience. IMO, we need a person with experience in the oval office. Obama doesn’t have the experience and it’s very likely he’ll mess things up even worse than they already are.

  323. “The Bracelet moment” lost Obama the debate, IMO.

    That will NOT play well with swing staters.

  324. I’m a bad person, but I think he throughly deserved it. Let’s just say McCain brushed the dirt off his shoulder.

  325. I would say, after 3 glasses of wine, that it was mostly a draw with McCain having a little more of an edge. Did it draw any Independents into either column? Hard to say. If I were one I would more than likely still be a little confused. McCain offers history and experience, Obama…………… Well, admittedly I am biased. Can’t stand him.

  326. Now that I see that phlamingored has announced the generosity, I can say thank you publicly!

    As for Juan Williams: this is exactly what the pundits will do. And this is why you all have my word that we will be putting ads on tv so that for every person who hears Juan Williams on their television, they will hear our voice too.

  327. It’s like Bush v. Gore.

    Lil’ George didn’t shit himself, therefore he won

  328. night y’all…. its been fun! I feel like I watched it though I most certainly DID NOT. I cannot stand listening or looking at the Chosen One.

  329. I really think the bracelet thing will stick in peoples’ heads..it’s in mine and he had to LOOK down to remember the soldier’s name.

  330. A Young Republican in a Bar in Kansas City just said she thought “Obama’s played Risk a couple of times and that’s the extent of his foreign policy experience”


  331. The Drudge poll has McCain winning at 73%. Not that Drudge has an equitable readership, but whatever

  332. Pundits, Heidi Li? More like spundits. Screw ’em all.

  333. Reviews:

    Fox gives it overall to McCain (Obama one round, tied a couple, all the rest to McCain). McCain got under Obama’s skin, he was frustrated, etc…. Saying Obama kept agreeing, McCain was not in the mood to agree with Obama.

    CNN seems to give it to McCain (masterful).

    MSNCB (ugh) is deflecting so I am going to say as MSNBC can’t give it to Obama, it goes to McCain.

    McCain is apparently very happy with the debate.

  334. Anyone who pays any attention to the He Man Woman Haters Club at MSNBO is already a kool-aid slurper

  335. WOW The BUZZ is Obama did the:
    “I agree with HIM move”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    CNN & FOX NEWS both said it!!!!

  336. Heidi Li – you’re very welcome!

    I challenge everyone here to donate whatever they can to help with our common cause of not letting Barky get anywhere near the white house.

  337. soupcity – I agree, that was the big turnoff of the night for me. Also, strangely, the flag pin turned me off too. It was just one more way in which Obama has ceded to the Republicans. “Oh noes, they’ll say I’m unpatriotic so I have to wear one!” Then McCain shows up without one.

    They really have got Obama’s number – they are so in his head…okay now I’m feeling better.

    Well, it’s been great – time to do the dishes. Later, all!

  338. MYIQ: “It’s like Bush v. Gore. Lil’ George didn’t shit himself, therefore he won”


    And I just think how Hillary would’ve taken McCain & reamed him on EVERY point.

  339. Although we all hate Obama, I think an objective person would have to say Obama won on points. At best it was a draw for McCain.

    WigWag: I couldn’t disagree more. Obama was defensive, petulant, and out of his league on foreign policy. McCain brought so much detail and depth of experience, and kept asserting that Obama didn’t understand and was naive.

  340. SOD – check the last thread… Mc was talking about the bracelet he wears with the name of a soldier kia… after he told the story (and used the name of the soldier), BO says, “I have a bracelet too!” (voice a little high and defensive) and then he has to look down and check the name on the bracelet… very poor form…

    sounded stupid and more stupid…

  341. My god, these blowhard in the Obama campaign are saying that every time McCain references his experiences demonstrates that McCain is about the past and Obama is the future.

    What a bunch of asses. Geez I guess the POTUS doesn’t need any experiece at all. Just turn 44 and become the leader of the free world. Obama doesn’t get this is a job interview.

  342. I just listened to every word of the debate. What is with Obama interrupting like a four year old if he is not the center of attention? He can across as rude, impatient, snotty, and childish. Some of Obama’s answers are pretty good but are lost in his incessant blithering. No one ever told him to “STFU you are boring” so he does not know when to stop. He really is a pampered prince.

  343. pickensplan.com

    to discuss what the candidates said

  344. I think Obama got Adult ADD. He wonders from veteran to oil drilling for no good reason.

  345. And remember, Obama has been holed up all week preparing for the debate (until he got called to DC).

  346. I blogged the bracelet thing, too.

    Oh, and we come to the bracelet portion of the program. Get out yer hankies, bitches! Clinton wears one. They’re the political equivalent of blow job bracelets for middle school girls. That’s sad.

    TOLD YOU! “I’ve got a bracelet too.” I’m so gonna protest bracelet-wearing by politicos.

  347. New post debate thread up. Everyone migrate.

  348. CNN seems to give it to McCain (masterful).

    Wow. That’s surprising.

  349. <a href=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec3aC8ZJZTc&e”These guys are fast!.


  350. migrating

  351. ‘night madamab.
    BO doing lots of blinking tonight too, definitely rattled.

    Thanks to all who are now watching msm, I just can’t.

  352. “McCain references his experiences demonstrates that McCain is about the past and Obama is the future.”

    Obama’s already 46. Why don’t we lower the age, then we could find the President of Kappa Delta Omega at Kegger U. You don’t get much fresher than that.

  353. Hey all remember American Blue collar guy/gal is risk adverse doesnt want to make a risky desision in these troubling times. From this perspective which guy seemed more of a risky bet with your vote?


  354. More CNN reviews from McCain (this is fun for me as I don’t watch these programs) McCain did well. Obama irritated, seemed petulant. Wolf says McCain got a name wrong. Obama will say he wins every time McCain mentions the past.

    Begala thinks Obama won the debate! ha!

    Toobin.. McCain…you don’t understand. Was it knowledge or talking down. Obama: you are right. Is it an error or does it demonstrate he can get along.

    Borger says McCain is condescending. Gergen said he needed to win by more because he’s behind.

    Summary from CNN…. no change.

  355. McCain’s best comment was when he said that Obama’s belief that you can sit down and talk without preconditions isn’t just naive it is dangerous.


  356. The best part is the talking heads after the fact.

    My opinion…. you know McCain won because the talking heads would be screaming from the hilltops that McCain LOST and they are having to struggle to find areas where Obama did best and McCain did worse.

    The debates remind me of the primaries and trying to cover for Obama’s performance.

  357. I’m off to watch the Partridge Family. Need some “come on get happy” right about now.

  358. McCain already has a debate ad up:

  359. McCain won, BTW. Not a knockout, but a solid win. The media is trying hard to spin it for Obama, but you can see it in their faces and body language.

  360. Fox is having their focus group with Frank Luntz after the break.

  361. NEW POST UP

  362. “Oh, pleeease!” No, I would not say BO won tonight — McCain wiped the floor with him. I was laughing at BO the whole time (and I was drinking peach herbal tea, so no help there). BO was pathetic. McCain was great.

    Cruel to make McCain stand the whole time, though. Very insensitive. He is a hero.

  363. Thanks OldCoastie

  364. Obama = punchline of a very sad Democratic joke.

    I keep pinching myself to see if Obama is a bad dream rather than a very, very, very sad reality.

    Somebody give him the hook already. This lazy arse is done on both sides.

    The debate demonstrated–yet again–Obama’s incompetence.

    Bring Hillary back!!!!!

  365. Bring Hillary back!!!!!

    she never left…she’s still with us

  366. Obama will lose PA after the republicans roll out their October surprise. You know it’s coming, they are just saving the good stuff for a few weeks from now.

  367. (In response to my friend pointing out the need for Sean Hannity)

    I agree that Sean’s routine is greatly needed now … especially when you consider that we have to try to counterbalance a whole media that people are exposed to and the lawyer mentality of hammering sound bites, whether or not your client is guilty, never admitting that you are wrong. I mean, the debate was just like Rudy Giuliani said, a resounding victory for McCain … both in content and in vibe. But the other side won’t admit the truth and just keeps hammering its sound bites … which often sound like grasping for straws and are even “penny wise and pound foolish” when compared to the Obama skeletons and the Biden misinformation (which makes you wonder how anybody could trust anything that he ever says now as being truth.) But you can see the great lack of joy and peace in their faces for taking that approach, as opposed to the smiles and glows of Rudy, Sean, Sarah, John, Mitt, etc. Also, Mike Huckabee, who has a new show on Fox starting today at 5 PST, and Sean has a special today. This really is a situation of good vs. evil. “You shall know them by their fruit”.

    Matthew 7:16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

  368. Obama’s bracelet moment, not even credible.

    Family Told Obama NOT To Wear Soldier Son’s Bracelet… Where is Media?
    By Warner Todd Huston
    September 28, 2008 – 03:53 ET

    “Barack Obama played the “me too” game during the Friday debates on September 26 after Senator John McCain mentioned that he was wearing a bracelet with the name of Cpl. Matthew Stanley, a resident of New Hampshire and a soldier that lost his life in Iraq in 2006. Obama said that he too had a bracelet. After fumbling and straining to remember the name, he revealed that his had the name of Sergeant Ryan David Jopek of Merrill, Wisconsin.

    Shockingly, however, Madison resident Brian Jopek, the father of Ryan Jopek, the young soldier who tragically lost his life to a roadside bomb in 2006, recently said on a Wisconsin Public Radio show that his family had asked Barack Obama to stop wearing the bracelet with his son’s name on it. Yet Obama continues to do so despite the wishes of the family.

    Radio host Glenn Moberg of the show “Route 51″ asked Mr. Jopek, a man who believes in the efforts in Iraq and is not in favor of Obama’s positions on the war, what he and his ex-wife think of Obama continually using their son’s name on the campaign trail.

    Jopek began by saying that his ex-wife was taken aback, even upset, that Obama has made the death of her son a campaign issue. Jopek says his wife gave Obama the bracelet because “she just wanted Mr. Obama to know Ryan’s name.” Jopek went on to say that “she wasn’t looking to turn it into a big media event” and “just wanted it to be something between Barack Obama and herself.” Apparently, they were all shocked it became such a big deal.

    But, he also said that his ex-wife has refused further interviews on the matter and that she wanted Obama to stop wearing the reminder of her son’s sacrifice that he keeps turning into a campaign soundbyte.”

    (Click on link above to read transcript of radio interview with soldier’s father.)

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