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      A few months ago I read a couple of books by the Singaporean intellectual Kishore Mahbubani. In “Has China Already Won he discusses Taiwan. The one exceptional trigger for a war involving China is Taiwan. Most of the time, the Chinese leaders have a lot of policy flexibility. There are no strong domestic lobbies to worry about. But the one issue where the Ch […]
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Hillary’s Statement on the Bailout (Clip and save)

There are three excellent posts that should be required reading in conjunction with this statement.  Please check out:

And now, one more data point that proves that the Democrats selected the wrong candidate (Highlights and commentary by Anglachel):

Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on the Administration’s Proposal to Restore Stability to U.S. Financial Markets

“When the American people, facing a foreclosure crisis and struggling economy, turned to this administration for help, the answer was no. Now, the administration is turning to the American people for help, to rescue the credit markets and take on hundreds of billions in debt and financial obligations as a consequence of that same foreclosure crisis. The truth is, Main Street came to Washington and got little. Now Washington is coming to Main Street and asking for a lot. The American people deserve to know that this isn’t a blank check. While the need to address the current crisis is clear, I will only support steps that will prevent a widening crisis, tackle the worst kinds of abuse tolerated for too long by the Bush Administration, and address the root problems at work.

The proposed intervention outlined today by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson would be a watershed moment for our economy. I believe that such an intervention demands that we fundamentally alter the priorities and policies of our nation under the Bush Administration that allowed this crisis to take place and escalate. Corporations that will benefit must be held accountable not only to large shareholders but also to the American people. And American taxpayers deserve to know that their money will not allow for a continuation of the status quo: short term profit at the expense of long term viability; obscene bonuses and golden parachutes regardless of performance; reckless risk taking that have placed the markets in so much jeopardy; rewards for those who foreclose on middle class families and sell mortgages designed to fail to turn a profit; and outsourcing of good jobs to serve short term stock prices instead of America’s long term economic health. The prevailing dynamic of corporate America, where the sole priority was the dividend, the inflated bonus and the quarterly earnings report, must give way to a new respect for the long term prosperity of the American worker and the well being of the middle class.

After eight years of failed policies – and two years of an absentee administration – our only option left may be an unprecedented government intervention into the private markets. The markets must be stabilized to stave off wider turmoil. Nevertheless, the urgency of this crisis does not mean that we should offer a blank check to financial institutions or the privileged few. Nor can we simply allow the administration to use the taxpayers like a ‘reset button.’ We cannot allow Wall Street to act without oversight by a vigilant SEC and administration – and without regard for the American people, who will now have paid twice: in falling prey to a widening credit crisis, and in paying the bill to hopefully bring it to an end.

I will be examining the administration’s proposal very closely to ensure that we do not approve a policy that may stabilize the markets in the short term without addressing the root problems facing middle class families or the kinds of reckless gambling that was permitted for far too long by the administration. The Bush Administration may have changed its tune once the crisis facing Main Street hit Wall Street. But we need to be sure that the American taxpayers – asked to shoulder yet more risk and responsibility – have a voice.”

139 Responses

  1. Solutions for America – yet we got hope on a dope.

  2. WHY is she NOT our candidate????

  3. Hill eeerrrrrrrr yyyyyyyyy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. And American taxpayers deserve to know that their money will not allow for a continuation of the status quo

    I believe this is the transparency in government that that Sarah Palin demonstrated in Alaska and is calling for as well.. I have a strong feeling that these two women could work todgther extremely well.

  5. And this is that overnight memo from Paulsen that seems to open this bailout to the whole world:

    Here is a paragraph from the Treasury Fact Sheet released last night: Asset and Institutional Eligibility for the Program. To qualify for the program, assets must have been originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008. Participating financial institutions must have significant operations in the U.S., unless the Secretary makes a determination, in consultation with the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, that broader eligibility is necessary to effectively stabilize financial markets. So this bailout covers any securities issued on or before last week! Why would we be bailing out activity from this year? Or even after Feb 2007 when the subprime crisis woke everyone up? I’d argue for an even earlier date …

    But the second sentence is even more surprising: eligibility has been changed from “financial institution having its headquarters in the United States” to “significant operations in the U.S.” – and even “broader eligibility” if Paulson so decides.

    According to this fact sheet, under the Paulson Plan, U.S. taxpayers may bailout foreign financial institutions and even foreign governments.


  6. So Jim Leach (along with Phil Gramm, the defacto McCain economics guru) is the father of our financial meltdown.
    You mean the same Jim Leach who was a House Impeachment manager against Bill Clinton?
    Would that be the same Jim Leach who supports Obama and was a featured speaker at the Democratic Convention???

    What folly. The only thing that would make this election even stupider would be if the Republicans had nominated Huckabee. One of the greatest crisises in our history and it’s between Tweedle-Dum and Tweedle-Dumber.

  7. Can we have Hillary back NOW?!?

    and I mean RIGHT NOW!

  8. As Obama sits back and waits to see what Paulsen and company comes up with. Does he not understand that his job is to set out parameters and boundaries that mark his political territory? Has he not taken leadership 101? Does he not know that s/he who writes the agenda, leads and focuses the debate and the outcome.

    In Mc Cain’s economic speech, he too sets out some parameters. Obama’s failure to do so as he sits back to see how this thing plays in the media and among the people is an incredible failure of leadership. I think once again Obama has voted “present”.

  9. sweetsue, the thought of a huckabee versus obama election willl haunt me for the rest of my days……

  10. Actually after listening to Mark Levin *who I know is not a hillary fan* and remembering something Greenspan said, I have to say I don’t agree with the notion bush and Republicans caused this melt down. Just like I don’t jump on nancy pelosi boat and pretend as if high gas prices are all bush’s fault. Why? Because decades of a majority democratic congress, failed to switch us away from oil after we were Jacked up by Saudi Arabia the first time in 1974. I think it’s safe to say that we were let down by two democratic congresses and over two decades of a majority democratic congress. And so i choose to look at this latest crisis objectively. First off, understand one thing, I lay the war in Iraq entirely at the feet of bush and his neo con cronies. they have done, irreparable damage to us, and to our relations with other countries, they also have jipped the american people, and I want my money back from Cheney and Halliburton. I do not approve of them using all the money I pay in taxes for the people in any administration to line their pockets with. i think every last one of them need to be tried for war crimes, and that was one of the reason I wanted Hillary as president.

    but this latest crisis is not their fault. This time around it is the democrats fault. and it should be reported as such. why? cause it’s just the truth. I don’t care how much you lie to yourself or anyone else people WILL find out the truth, also after watching obama try and con america you know as well as i do, that most people know bull crap with the hear it. the problem is that if democrats don’t admit they made this man, people are gong to blow it out of proportion, and make their roll in it seem much bigger than it is. and you know as well as I do that the only reason dems are act like this is the republicans fault, is because they want to place obama in office, and as much as i despise bigots r us, i’m not going to lie for a party that basically told me to f*** myself. Dems pressured, banks to give people who did not qualify loan, they forced quotas and so banks did just that. that’s irresponsible and wrong. I think Democrats need to include education and counseling, instead of forcing quotas. Teach people how to budget properly to afford homes. give people options to help improve their credit. Both parties have screwed our economy, and people need to realize that, instead of becoming so polarized, we do ourselves a great disservice when we indulge in defining one group as bad and the other as good. What we should want is a government that works, and doesn’t forget who is running the show. If we dont’ we will get what we have already gotten. obama was pushed off on people cause the knew we wouldn’t ask questions. Stop excepting blame and excuses and start demanding results. If your democratic rep or senator votes in ways that are contrary to what you want vote his behind out. when you start holding politicians accountable you will be surprised at how well they will start working for you. They ALL treat us like we let them. this year we got a slap in the face, we found out our party wasn’t what we thought it was, so it’s time we flip the script, it’s time we demand more. And if these same democratic leaders, who spet on hillary clinton and denied us of a capable candidate and a sure win, then you have no reason to try ad pretend that the Republicans are responsible for this. The dems caused it, and the main ones that did are on obama’s financial committee or his biggest donors. Hold them accountable. Or you will end up with obama in office.

  11. All obama has to do:

    tap Hillary to present her plan as ‘his’ plan and lead the effort. He already has teh nomination – it won’t hurt him. He could get behind her plan and LEAD – it might also show some of that famous judgement that led to the super secret bestest speech evah that nobody actually heard.

    I still wouldn’t vote for the fool, but who knows, maybe the dems could do something in D.C. for a change.

  12. Main Street accountability and Green Economics did not figure into the housing boom /bust either …

    Here on the shore entirely new neighborhoods of monstrously huge homes were built without any consideration for the local environment ,
    They had consultation from the local environmental agencies and could have preserved thousands of acres of pristine virgin environment ,
    But they ( Centex) bullied their way through a loophole and did the old fashioned slash and build and we are paying for that as well …

    I often fantasize , what if every new home built in the past ten years were built with Solar Panels and integrated rain barrel water recovery systems , tankless water heaters and other wonderful environmentally safe built ins.
    We have so thrown away so many opportunites in this country , we need the people like Hillary and Sarah who CARE
    NOT dishonest narcissitic opportunists who just want to sit in the fucknig chair in the Oval Office

  13. Senator Clinton continues to amaze me. Thank you, RD, for highlighting her latest great thoughts.

    As for Senator Obama: he will never clue in the Senator Clinton’s ideas, take them seriously, or possess the ability to implement them. That’s the tragedy of the DNC’s rigging the nomination so that we ended up with the wrong candidate.

  14. lol,garychapelhill, I’ve become very good at the nightmare scenario.

  15. Hillary Clinton was one of the few who saw this coming. I wonder which administration would actually give her more clout…McCain or Obama?


  16. MountainSage:
    Hands down, a McCain admin would give Senator Clinton more clout.

  17. How long before some Obot accuses Hillary of trying to upstage Teh Precious?

  18. Absolutely McCain would give her more clout ,,, John and Hillary are already friends and have worked together in the past , and have mututal respect . I took note that Hillary in her statment did NOT mention bo ….

    speaking of nightmares .. can you imagine that snotty bastard in office .. he would relegate her to some ineffective position for fear she would overshadow him , and oppose her constantly … ok enough of that horrible idea …ewww

  19. Man she is smart concise and action oriented. Can we have her back now PLEASE.

  20. Excellent..This analysis and these suggestions are on the minds of every American who has lost their job… and the ones who live in fear of losing their jobs. And maybe even the ones who things their jobs are permanently indefinate!

    None of us are living in a secure financial environment. here today gone tomorrow is the underlying message. Prepare for the future in case it’s turned upside down if you haven’t already done so at this late stage…

    Brrrr..it’s gonna be a cold, cold winter and a long one too. That is what the “they” are counting on and when “they” will cap on the NE.

    Thanks RD..

  21. Did anyone else see this? I found this on Uppity’s site:
    Hillary and McCain have seen this coming—and know what to do. Can we have Hillary back now?

  22. Darn, my link didn’t work.

  23. I’m am so relieved and grateful to Hillary for calling out these points. I hope she gathers enough strength behind her to fend off the scariest parts of this bailout.

    McCain will no doubt use the unsavorty connections and lack of leadership moment against BO. And the fact that Hill could have more clout in his administration makes it easier for me to do what I know I will have to here in Wa state-vote McCain.

  24. When politicians talk about protecting “Main Street” do they mean chamber of commerce businesses? Or people?

  25. katiebird:

    I think they mean “K” street, where their best friends mainly work

  26. MyIQ, I think you’re probably right.

  27. As usual: the leader leads…
    I’ll be keeping this handy to check against B0’s eventual response

  28. BO’s response: It was not the economy that I knew.

  29. bo isnt a leader.. he is only good at sitting back and waiting for someone else to do something and then disparaging it , no matter what it is Didnt Carl Rove say something like that about him ?? that he was nothing more than a sardonic observer?? or some such phrase??

  30. On George Stephanopolis this morning, the animus toward McCain and the Repubs was strident, led by the forked tongue of Donna Brazille. I have such a hard time watching her. Henry Paulson was rightly criticized of leading a “socialist” solution to our economic crisis. Such a strange and ironic place for the Bushies to have ended up. But they would rather protect their cronies by mortgaging the government and tying up whatever funds might have been available for “change,” regardless of who wins the election than considering solutions such as those outlined by Hillary. She has proven to be a stateswoman for our time. Obama, with all his minions of economic advice, just won’t get it. Even McCain, with all his shoot from the hip solutions and position changes inspires more trust than BO. I grieve the loss of priority for health care reform but hold out hope for a quicker reduction of forces (expenditures) in Iraq. If only HIllary . . . .

  31. Edge: 2 days from now, Obama will release a “What Hillary Said” manifesto, and everyone will think he’s the brilliant one.

    I’m so sick of this all.

  32. angelasmith, on September 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm Said:
    BO’s response: It was not the economy that I knew.

    THAT IS PRICELESS !!!!!!!!!

  33. Gordon: AMEN.

  34. RD: Three excellent posts in a row–you are ON FIRE!

    I have so many thoughts going through my mind and so many things I want to say. I think I’ll just say the one thing that sums it all up:
    Can we please have Hillary back now?

  35. […] real leader, Hillary Clinton pushed out of this race for him, already has a statement The American people deserve to know that this isn’t a blank check. While the need to address the […]

  36. I think we must demand that Hillary be sitting in the front row with the cameras on her at all times to make sure she is not giving him his answers for each debate.

  37. I believe that in a McCain administration, Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman, two of the smartest people on Capitol Hill, can have any cabinet post that they want. John McCain recognizes, respects and appreciates their wisdom and their contributions to this country.

    We need Hillary, now more than ever.

  38. Uh-oh. Another Jeralyn moment:

    Early voting is already open in some states. Up to 1/3 of voters may vote before Election Day. I plan to vote early, just to avoid any problems and lines at polling places. I think it’s a surer way to make sure my vote gets counted.

    I’m wondering about the effect of any “October Surprise.” It will be too late if it comes after enough people have voted.

    Encourage everyone you know at work and in your social life to vote early. Don’t take a chance on a last minute sleazy attempt by Republicans to change people’s minds.

    Yeah, vote early while Obama still has a chance just in case he F—ks up more before you find out about it and you, American Voter, has the audacity to change their mind about this neophyte loser!

  39. I don’t think this economic mess helps Obama.

    In times of uncertainty, people want experience.

  40. SM77:

    So sad. Jeralyn used to be a top-notch blogger.

    Perhaps we could do an intervention?

  41. I don’t like this. Not At All.


    I fear there is no October surprise coming this year. Sorry to be such a downer.

    In these moments of doubt, it makes me better to remember that people like our Hill leave their mark and do great things no matter where they are, no matter what position they hold.

  42. Edge — I doubt Obama will have a response before the election. He’ll try to ride out a non-answer until after. That’s his MO. He tried to ride out the Rev. Wright brouhaha until it started to hurt him in polls, then forced himself to give the best speech on race evah. He tried to ride out not-picking Hillary as VP (happily standing to the side while his supporters wormed their way into the Guinness Book of World Records as the Sorest Winners evah), and ended up with Biden.

    He tried to ride out not ever even having to mention the economy, despite calls from prominent Dems calling and begging him to do so all summer and only relented when Palin started to take the election away. And even though, his talk about the economy still didn’t include how to fix it, or a plan for it strengthening it, it was just a laundry list of what’s wrong.

    He doesn’t want to commit to any remotely Democratic or democratic principle. He doesn’t want to commit to anything, period. He wants his only mandate to be hope and change, because he thinks his very person is hope and change, so all he has to do is win. Then slide by until reelection campaign 2012.

    His whole MO is to sit around the Faculty Lounge criticizing while others do stuff.

  43. Correction: … it makes me FEEL better …

  44. MYIQ: She lost all credentials as a top-notch blogger, BIGTIME.

  45. Valhalla:

    You misunderestimate Teh Precious. He’ll have at least 2-3 conflicting responses between now and Nov. 5th.

    Right this second he has his finger up, testing the winds

  46. I don’t buy that crap of early voting…I think the Obots are pushing that meme because they think that will force the repubs to play their hand….

    I do however completely worry about the college crowd getting in two votes. Because I cannot find credible people supporting the O, and for umpteen other reasons like the MSM refuisal to vet and the neck and neck polls when historically losing dems have been far far ahead…. if he does pull out a win there will be no way to convince me this hasn’t been completely rigged.

  47. sm77:

    A person can be biased and still be top-notch.

    But they have to be honest.

  48. “he is only good at sitting back and waiting for someone else to do something and then disparaging it , no matter what it is ”

    Literally, a documented characteristic of Malignant Narcissistic Personality Disorder

  49. kgirl, on September 21st, 2008 at 1:34 pm Said

    You go girl! Every word you wrote was right on the money! It’s NOT just the Republican’s fault. Bill Moyers had Ken Phillips, the author of Bad Money, on his program. This is the guy that predicted this mess. Phillips said the Dems are just as guilty as the Repubs, if not more so because they are even bigger feeders at the Wall Street trough. Who were the top 3 beneficiaries of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac largesse?? Dodd, Obama and Kerry…ALL dems.

  50. Main Street is the average American taxpayer who gets nothing from DC when we need it but is now expected to empty our wallets for Wall Street because that’s how DC works.

  51. MYIQ: Exactly, she’s wanting people to vote early before “those voters” realize that O is more of an unqualified moron than they thought he is.

  52. they used that same “early voter” technique in the primaries. its meant to suppress votes. don’t fall for their bullshit propaganda.

  53. sm77:

    As I commented at TL, undecideds don’t vote early. The people that vote early are unlikely to be swayed by anything that happens between now and election day.

  54. […] The Confluence: Hillary’s Statement on the Bailout (Clip and save) […]

  55. In previous years (in a former life, it seems). I never understood undecided voters. I mean, how can you not know who you want to be president until you walk into the booth? Now I get it.

  56. We dont have early voting in MD or I would do it because I know who is getting my vote 🙂

  57. McCain is about to speak at the National Guard Convention. No one is showing it. How do we find it on the internet??????????

  58. MYIQ/Gary: No Early Voting!!

    F_ck that!

    Vote on 11/4/08 – or your vote will be stolen!

  59. sm77:

    It’s okay, you can say “fuck” here

  60. OMG – now Obama is using the term “transparency”! Does he have any ideas or terms that belong to him?

  61. sm77:

    It’s okay, you can say “fuck” here

    In fact we encourage it!!!

  62. I vote absentee in every election which means I vote early, usually 3-4 weeks before election day. I do so because of the timing but I always know who I am going to vote for and how I will vote on ballot initiatives etc. I think the only people who are really impacted and make a decision on an “October surprise” are the people who are undecided in the first place—it is the event that pushes them to one position or another.

  63. Barker and Goldstein are going to make a full recovery!

    That’s good news!

  64. I want to see some accountability on the part of those financial hacks who will be getting bailed out of this mess-of-their-own-making. I want to see the assets they HAVE (and I think most of them still have something) used in the bailout BEFORE ANY taxpayer $$$ are used. I want to see the CEOs who walked away with millions of $$$ called back and that money returned, I want to see banks be banks and investement firms be investments firms, not bank/investment/real estate/credit card/insurance firms that are so big we HAVE to bail them out. Regulate them!! I want to see CEOs salaries directly TIED to the success or failure of the firm. I want to see donations from Wall Street to politicians outlawed. I want to see a cap on credit card interest and late fees and mortgage loan interest rates that are set and not variable. I want to see actual standards for loan qualifications.

    I don’t buy this whole “we didn’t see this coming” whine. Hell, I SAW THIS COMING. And I’m not even a banker.

  65. The people responsible for this financial mess should be stripped of everything they own except one suit and a sign that says “Will Work For Food”

  66. IndigoGirl, I say the same thing to Gary all the time. If he ends up winning this, I will never be able to believe he won it legitimately.

  67. I need to listen to you guys. It’s my own fault. You counseled me wisely and yet I persisted. Somebody please chain me to the Confluence so I don’t wander into Obamaland again. It’s a gloomy, ugly place where wrong is right and down is up. Every day is Topsy-Turvy day. Obama is a gracious gentleman who treated Hillary with dignity and respect and his campaign never, EVER played the race card. Sarah Palin is Lilith and Mcain the demon lord of the underworld. Anyone who does not agree with the big O is r@cist. Anyone who questions his qualifications or ability is an imbecile who sleeps with his head on a Bible and an AK-47 under his bed. If Obama wins, it is because the whole country recognizes his glory and greatness. If McCain wins it’s because he fixed it in conjunction with those embittered, withered Hillary supporters who are just mad that she didn’t “win” the primary.

    And here lies Obama’s legacy: I will never, ever be able to trust the outcome of a national election ever again.

  68. FUUUCK!!!

    MYIQ & Indigogrrl, whew! That felt good.

  69. sm77:

    Everybody needs a good “fuck!” now and then

  70. MYIQ: Tell me about it! LOL!

  71. The Democratic Party didn’t just shoot itself in the foot, it blew it off completely. Obama doesn’t have a clue.

  72. Carol,

    I see that McCain’s address to the Nat. Guard is on cnn.com right now.

  73. “sm77, on September 21st, 2008 at 2:20 pm Said:

    Edge: 2 days from now, Obama will release a “What Hillary Said” manifesto, and everyone will think he’s the brilliant one.”

    Which is why I’m so very happy HRC is publishing this stuff.

  74. kjmontana, I agree. In fact, I’d like to have an investigation of the House and Senate members who arrive in Washington with average assets, work for $150k per year, and retire multi-millionaires, whether they write a “best seller” book or not.

    I wonder how that works out? I’ve always been curious about it.

    Specifically, I’ve wondered how many of them are invested in funds that are affected by legislation that they have dealings with, such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    Personally, I think there should be a “sunshine law” requiring all financial transactions of all elected officials to be public access files. Anybody can log into the ‘Net and take a look at any elected official’s transactions, say, above $10,000– including offshore banks.

    Anyone should be able to look at the site and say, “Yes, that’s royalties from the book, yes, that’s a legal down payment for that house in Williamsburg, but what’s this $1,000,000 deposit to that bank in the Cayman’s?”

    Having an “oversite” committee within the Senate and the House is asking the fox to watch the hen house.

  75. http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09192008/watch2.html

    Worth watching…Kevin Phillips on the bi-partisan phenomenon of our bubble economy.

  76. This is OT — but since I have close contact with those who will vote O simply because they perceive he’s a Democrat and was given the Dem nomination…. they are telling me that they believe he will lose because of racism… they say this because of the MSM propping up his credentials and because of the neglect of the MSM to air ANY negative story on him (proper vetting)… and the irresponsibility of the MSM when they keep pushing the race card.

    so the stage has been set — either way we will ALL lose. There will always be the perception of some that racism tilted the election one way or the other. I will go to my grave knowing that sexism surely did.

  77. RD: I am crazy busy packing but just wanted to say thank you for all your brilliant posts today. You are truly amazing and these people are totally fucked.

  78. If Obama manages to win I would love to see the look on his face when it is explained to him that Paulson has already set the agenda for his administration, that his job is to see to it that the decline in the US standard of living is slow and orderly and that he is assured of being a one term failure.

    I don’t imagine he has a clue at this point.

  79. I want not only accountability for the financial crisis but I want the jobs of the idiots that caused the Barama nomination to come to pass. We have to get our screams and wants known to the media and the rest of the world.

  80. Mountain Sage, on September 21st, 2008 at 1:49 pm Said:
    Hillary Clinton was one of the few who saw this coming. I wonder which administration would actually give her more clout…McCain or Obama?
    The McLauglin Group (tape not yet available) has a clip of McCain saying he introduced a bill two years ago to address Fanny Mae and Mac and the Dems (Obama) were silent. I don’t know the details of the bill, but McCain came out smelling like a rose on this issue on this morning’s show.

    IMO Hillary working with McCain on issues tops Obama working with Republicans on issues hands down.

  81. 3 new storms brewing …………………………

  82. go back and check, the blame for this mess started with
    jimmy cahtah!!!!!

  83. Dear Mr. Obama II: Economics 101

  84. OT – Nicolas Kristof writes in the NYTimes that Obama has a Muslim problem (yeah, r*ace problem put to rest for awhile). But he makes the statement that the real loser in this election might not be Obama but “our entire political process”.

    Well, he got that right. But it’s the Democrats who stopped the political process with the help of the NYTimes and their Michigan/Florida nuclear option.

  85. Thanks for the link, Myiq.

  86. Walhalla
    You are right – but now that the economy has became a “3 AM call” he may be forced to take a position. What can he do? Throw the party under the bus? Or his financial base?(those guys paying 100 million to a total unknown)
    he is in a jam – and I am enjoying that

  87. I have come to the conclusion that when any party “controls,” they quit serving the people and start serving themselves, at which point the public gets angry, votes them out, turns it over, and then it just starts on the other side.

    Jimmy Carter is the reason I am a Republican, but looking back, he inherited a lot of problems and just didn’t know how to deal them, which is something Obama will potentially inherit, or JM, and depending on how quickly they figure out how to deal with the problems, could affect the next 12 years of presidency. Simply put, just like with Carter, if Obama wins and things go that route, then there will be no democrat from 2012 to 2024; if JM wins and things stay sour or gets worse, HRC (or whoever the D running is) will easily win in 2012.

  88. Yeah, Swing Voter, assuming the DNC doesn’t decide to rig another election – at least maybe not obviously.

  89. The markets are a complex issue, but George W. followed the 1920’s and Harding and Coolidge’s example to cut taxes to corporations and the wealthy to the tee. His advisors stated the stock market was the final arbiter on the economy. It worked then just like it did today with a short-term stock boom and then disaster.

    If history is repeating itself, who wants to play Hoover? Let McCain try to clean up the mess. Either he will (hard to believe in four years) or it sets the stage for FDR (in the form of Clinton?)

    Disclaimer – I know nada about the economy.

  90. NV Swing Voter, on September 21st, 2008 at 4:23 pm Said:
    Simply put, just like with Carter, if Obama wins and things go that route, then there will be no democrat from 2012 to 2024; if JM wins and things stay sour or gets worse, HRC (or whoever the D running is) will easily win in 2012.
    I agree..if we are lucky, the economy will hit bottom by 2011 and then start recovering. The more that I see how bad the economic troubles are going to become, I am glad that Hillary didn’t get the nomination. There really isn’t much the President can do except get the blame. If Hillary was in the WH 2011 she, and having a “woman President” would be blamed for the poor economy. People would have forgotten that the Bushites were responsible.

  91. Hilary is not the Dem nominee because Hillary would not watch Wall St.. rape the tax payer and say gee, no one knows what to do…which is a Dem talking point right now .

    IMO it’s exactly because Hillary knows what to do that she was pushed aside. It’s not about governance anymore, even bad governance , just straight up stealing.

  92. Is any one watching Palin’s rally in FL??

  93. If history is repeating itself, who wants to play Hoover? Let McCain try to clean up the mess. Either he will (hard to believe in four years) or it sets the stage for FDR (in the form of Clinton?)
    For the time, Hoover was a progressive and his VP is the only non-Euro to have held that office. There wasn’t much he could do but get the blame for the preceding years of poor economic policy. The same fate awaits the person who moves into the WH on 01/20/09.

  94. There are T-Shirts that say “I kissed a pitbull with lipstick and I liked it!”

  95. Sarah Palin LIVE in Florida on FOX News now!

  96. Palin: “Getting in your face is not the politics of hope.”

    Well said!

    Crowd is pumped!

  97. Palin is Obama’s worse nightmare….I am sure he begging for Hillary now!

    She went after Obama on the following:
    1. No position on this financial mess unlike McCain stepping up to demonstrate leadership

    2. Paying more taxes is patriotic (Biden)

    3. Argue with people who disagree with him…like “get in their face”

    This is fun to watch!

  98. Great bunch of threads, RD. You should take a weekend off more often!

    I finished reading The Prodigal Daughter by Jeffrey Archer last night. He wrote it in 1982 and the premise of the story is a woman trying to become the first female President of the U.S. When she becomes VP instead, through a bunch of crappy manipulations by the eventual President during the primaries, the people of the U.S. eventually realize that the wrong person got picked to be President and that it should have been her all along. Unfortunately, they realize it too late and are stuck with that President while she, Florentyna, goes to funerals.

    Strange how much the book followed the actual story of Hillary Clinton. I cried reading some parts of it. I do believe that Archer believed back then that we would have a female President by now.

    Ah well.

  99. Latest Rasmussen Poll:

    Obama 48%
    McCain 47%

    McCain is coming back up. Also, keep in mind that more Democrats are in the poll sample. Obama is in trouble.

  100. I think Palin did well for McCain today….MSNBC, CNN & FOX carried the rally live

  101. sofiaNY,

    Indeed! She nailed it!

    And just think, the Democrat elites led by the Obama/Pelosi/Reid/Dean/Brazile bandwagon still think Obama will win Florida. LOL! That aint happenin’!

  102. KJMontana, I agree with every single thing you said at 3:10.

  103. I think the one of the great lines of her speech today is that “Obama voted present this week (financial melt down) just like he did about 130 times in the IL State Senate”

  104. Anglachel has another post up. Chuck Schumer and Chris Dodd very working hard for Wall St.

  105. CB I watched Kevin Philips. he seems to give B0 preference – maybe because he said he read his books? interesting what he said about the civil war that would decimate the party if they get the power now – and the lunch pail base vs the pin stripe soul that the party is perceived to have – the fact that labor is nervous about Obama.
    I like Philips – the only one speaking about the stolen election in the media in 2000 – right after it was done!

  106. I like that Palin sometimes change her style in the rallies. She gets the crowd involved by asking questions that the answer is always “NO”

    Palin: Has Obama ever said I did (We did) instead of I will (We will)?

    Crowd: NO

  107. Was it Obama has 300 advisors for the Economy or the War? I can’t remember.

    All I can say, is not only has Palin made Toast of Biden and Obama, she is now crumbling it up for croutons!

    You go girl!

    Hillary or McCain 2009

  108. “Obama In The Mud: So Much For Honesty”
    New Hampshire Union Leader
    September 21, 2008

    “In the past few weeks, Obama has thrown so many false accusations against John McCain that just keeping track of them has become difficult. And these aren’t innocent errors. They are deliberate distortions of the sort Obama has always said he reviles.”

    Read Editorial Here:


  109. CNN – sign that said “I kissed a pig with lipstick and I liked it!”

  110. That is exactly why wall st will not allow her to be in the white house. Obama will fit perfectly, he will take the money and keep his mouth shut.
    I always wondered what is Obama selling to all the money makers out there who are supporting him. Sadly we may find out.

  111. RD: Thank you! On a personal note, my son sat down and watched the news for the first time in a week and became alarmed. He knew we were worried, but he didn’t comprehend the seriousness of it (I think the $700 Billion caught his attention). I have no idea how this going to affect my 401k, we don’t get reports until the end of the year. I showed him the drastic swings in the market this week, this post, he read some of the comments and said, my generation is fucked.

    The kid who up through yesterday couldn’t spend his paycheck fast enough is finally figuring out that he needs to start saving his money. My preaching didn’t reach him, but all of your comments did.

  112. Palin: “This isn’t about patriotism. This is about Barack Obama’s poor judgment”

  113. I am right there with the message about not bailing out the fat cats who made this all happen, made out like bandits, now want us to pay the piper, not them. And how.

    ***BUT*** – and I hear this all over, and from liberals in at least as high numbers as conservatives – people are not happy that reckless borrowers are getting bailed out at taxpayer expense, either.

    There are a lot of responsible people out there who saved up their 20% down payment, have always paid their bills on time, and did all the hard work over the years to earn the reward of buying a home.

    Yet were outbid on houses by reckless borrowers with bad credit and/or who bought more house than they KNEW they could afford with interest only, adjustable, and/or no money down.

    And watched as reckless borrowers pulled out whatever equity they had to buy bigger and better SUVs, cruises, and other luxuries they couldn’t afford.

    Somehow these cases have to put into the equation, too. Are we rewarding the people who were responsible? Or punishing them.

  114. I’m wondering now, but HRC has very quickly addressed this issue, publicly, and I’m thinking she saw this coming and was prepared … and that maybe, just maybe, Obama offered her the VP seat after she suspended and she said, no way, no how … (which is why she wasn’t vetted) this future mess will not be “fixable” in one term. Thus, giving Obama the nomination by acclamation, and probably laughing all the way back to New York.

  115. Joe Biden is an idiot. Does he even like Obama?

    “I guarantee you, Barack Obama ain’t taking my shotguns, so don’t buy that malarkey,” Biden said angrily. “They’re going to start peddling that to you.” “I got two, if he tries to fool with my Beretta, he’s got a problem.”

  116. I think this is an excellent analysis of His Royal Zeroness:

    The incredible shrinking Obama


  117. Just wanted to add, it behooves Democrats to bring these responsible people I mentioned above into the equation, too. Otherwise they play into stereotypes that give the advantage to the Republicans.

    People who worked hard, who saved, who were prudent borrowers or got shut out of the market, should be rewarded, not have to pay to keep their less responsible neighbors in a McMansion while they rent an apartment.

  118. Something to make you go hmm…

    If “we’re the ones we’ve been waiting for” … then WTF do we need Obama for? 🙂

  119. IronMan: I have been a Republican from the day I could vote (who wanted Hillary on the top of the D ticket), but I’ve got to ask: Has it ever occurred to you that the people here support Hillary and no matter how much you cheer JM/SP, you’re doing yourself no favors? I really hope you’re not trying to shove JM/SP down the throats of those you’re in closest contact with. It won’t work. The Hillary supporters I interact with every day would consider that “pandering.”

  120. New post up!!!

  121. NV Swing Voter,

    Oh good grief, you can’t be serious

    Nice try, but you are incorrect. FYI, I’m a Democrat and have been a registered Democrat since I was 18. I have never voted for a Republican for President. Ever.

    I supported (and still do support) Hillary Clinton. She was and stil is the ebst candidate for POTUS. I helped volunteer for her campaign and for Bill Clinton’s campaign back in the 1990s, so please don’t insult me by telling me that I am a Republican and that I don’t support Hillary Clinton. You are way off base with that accusation. Ridiculous.

    Furthermore, if you read any of my posts over at TL, going back MANY months (under my same user name: IronMAn) you’d know your accusation against me is as false as Obama’s claim that he never has used the race card or the gender card against Hillary.

    The only one trying to shove anything down anyone’s throat is the Democratic Party when they stabbed Hillary Clinton in the back and tried to shove Obama down our collective throats.

    Now, getting back to the campaign, and being that people in Virginia have already started voting for President, I think this article is important for people to check out:

    ACORN Update: Widespread Voters Registration Fraud Reports from Battleground States

    September 21, 2008


  122. Oh, and one additionl thing, NV Swing Voter,

    The Hillary supporters I know in my family and in my circle of friends are not supporting Obama. Are you uspet about that?

    Just because we choose to support McCain-Palin and not obama, does not make us not support Hillary Clinton. If anything, voting for McCain-Palin is a way to show our support FOR Hillary Clinton, and to teach the Obama Democratic Party a lesson they will never forget.

    That’s why I say…

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

    Surely, that makes sense to you I hope.

  123. I always thought Obama was somehow contrived, to prevent HRC putting thru UHC.

    Then, I thought he was fixed to get rid of the Clintons, who would have been far too strong this time round(which is why he could never choose her for VP).

    Now, I think Wall Street set him up to ask no questions and ladle out the necessary.

    Next, I’ll be thinking that McCain/Palin and the Pumas are what no-one expected. ( Why? because even Bush seems to be backing BO, just as Congress is). (Why? because no-one expected a Repub could win).

  124. That one article summed it up nicely. Refinance the mortgages. THE MOST common sense solution to this problem. If Obama uses this as a solution he can win. The only weakness is that Clinton came up with it first during the primary and he shot it down for BS reasons. So McCain can attack on that, but that will allow Obama an inroad to middle class america. Which can give him the election.

    You know, the middle class he’s been “championing” this whole time.

  125. msindy: Excellent points. When we were buying our house, the bank told me I could qualify for more money, yada, yada. It sure sounded good. I live in CT where simple but decent houses were at the edge of what I could afford. When the bank told me that, I walked on air, visualizing my center hall colonial with the spa in the master suite. And then I got real with myself…I knew I couldn’t really afford that. I bought the “responsible house.” I am not regretting it now, but I sure don’t want to bail out the people who have no self-awareness and who caused the overinflated price of this “responsible house.”

  126. Well, I know I’m still having difficult accepting that Hillary was not at the top of your ticket and I was an anybody but JM. He’s winning me over, and I’m working hard for JM, but I’m not convinced he can help any more than BO. I am convinced that this next presidency will be one-term president.

  127. Yes, Ironman, that makes more sense. I just find it very weird that there are Democrats that are far more enthusiastic about my party’s candidate than many of us. I understand the reasons, we have a very corrupt voting system, and that’s pretty obvious in both parties and this election woke a lot of people up, but will the next administration do anything to make it less corrupt?

  128. Hillary’s HOLC proposal — I think stabilizing the economy on the consumer end is the only practical thing to do (helps homeowners and banks holding 1000s of toxic mortgages) and the right thing to do.

    I absolutely understand people who are against bailing out homeowners who took on bigger loans than they could pay for. I’ve been saving for a downpayment for a while, and it’s upsetting that others will get help to stay in homes I could never afford going the careful route.

    BUT, having said that, this whole thing is a giant clusterfuck of moral hazard. We’re forgetting that the entire system was making so much (imaginary) money off pushing toxic mortgages that the pressure was on to pressure/entice people into getting over their heads. And I have a lot more sympathy for the average joes and janes who wanted what used to be a reasonable expectation of the American Dream — work hard, buy your own home getting in over their heads than I do the people who were already multimillionaires, whose Xmas bonuses were more than I earn in 10 years, and who knew exactly what was going on and were just fucking greedy for MORE millions.

    In order to stop the utter collapse of the economy, which will punish us all, someone has to go without punishment. Between the Wall St. asshats and consumers, I pick the consumers. Even if it doesn’t thwart the moral hazard, it keeps people in their homes, and stable, home-owning populations are better for communities. Keeping greedy millionaires in golfballs and international vacations does nothing.

    Anyway, there’s my take on the whole thing. Go Hill, I’m behind you all the way!

  129. “…the urgency of this crisis does not mean that we should offer a blank check to financial institutions or the privileged few. Nor can we simply allow the administration to use the taxpayers like a ‘reset button.’ ”

    Um who has the badge of eloquence in this party? Every time Hillary opens her mouth or releases a statement, her incisive mind and dead-on language makes me want to strangle the people who robbed us of this candidate – truly a woman of the people.

  130. Laurie!!! What YOU said @6:04!!

  131. Thanks mountainsage. That was the one I wanted.

  132. Wow! I’ll bet that Hillary pissed off Barack’s buddies with this one.

  133. dude, where am i?/?

  134. Sophie, exactly, that’s why most people don’t support the bailouts. The curious part is politicians are not saying anything about the responsible people who did the right thing. They are just being ignored and told to pony up.

    Valhala, you said “stable, home-owning populations are better for communities” – perhaps, but the people owning homes should be the people who can afford their homes. The economics break down, as well as the morality of the thing, when owning homes become a taxpayer-financed entitlement.

    There are people who saved up and went to night school and worked hard until they could afford the house. Or people who bought only as much house as they could afford. People who did the right thing and rented until they were ready to buy, or bought only what they could afford. And they are mighty resentful that they have to give their money to those whose reckless actions jacked up prices with their interest only no money down loans.

    There is something quite wrong about this. Democratic politicians are losing voters on this issue.

    And renting a home is actually cheaper now than owning. There is nothing wrong with renting – many in Europe do it. And there is something absolutely right in renting if you can’t afford to buy without asking for handout.

  135. Also most economists say that bailing out most of these reckless borrowers will actually only delay the inevitable. The home debtors will eventually default anyway, and would be better off starting the seven year cycle of rebuilding their credit while renting. Also, the bailouts will keep home prices artificially inflated longer, rather than getting the absolutely necessary correction done. Market fundamentals are all out of whack and the home debtor bailouts only prolong the misery.

  136. […] Clinton’s statement on the bail out with analysis […]

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