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Thursday: Alice Kryzan wins her primary!- and loses her party???

Let us go in together,
And still your fingers on your lips, I pray.
The time is out of joint—O cursèd spite,
That ever I was born to set it right!
Nay, come, let’s go together.
Hamlet Act 1, scene 5, 186–190

Alice, where art thou going?

Alice, where art thou going?

The time is indeed out of joint this year.  This campaign season has one of those convoluted plots where nothing is as it seems, allegiences shift, players changes sides, double cross, backstab and sometimes, the heroines lose even as they’re winning.  We’ve seen it happen to Hillary Clinton, who had the unmitigated gall to run for president against the Party’s Chosen One.  Not only did they not honor her higher count in the popular vote and the fact that the hard delegate count was almost dead even, they felt it was necessary to humiliate her during the roll call vote.  I don’t think the superdelegates knew at the time just how BAAADDD that made them look but I suspect that the recent actions of the Pennsylvania contingent are clueing them in. Even so, it does not appear that the DNC or the Obama campaign can be taught.  Reaching out to voters is so 20th century.

Now comes Alice Kryzan.  Alice is a well respected attorney in the area of environmental law.  She ran in the recent primary to represent NY-26 in Congress.  This is a red to blue district.  The Republican, Tom Reynolds, is retiring.  The Democratic primary featured two other contestants: Jack Davis, a wealthy businessman, and Jon Powers, an Iraq War vet.  Davis had previously run for this seat and came close to winning but lost.  But the Democratic party bosses in the district decided to bet the money on Powers.  Powers, by the way, has no resume to speak of but he *is* an Iraq War vet.  Nothing wrong with that.  Powers is an honorable man.  But an M16 may be playing the role of the Penis Year in terms of perceived experiential advantage.  But I digress.

Davis and Powers battled it out during the lead up to the primary, thinking they were the only two people who mattered and then WHAM! Alice wins!  Yeah for Alice!  There must have been great rejoicing and dancing in the streets!  Another woman to Congress!  One more on the way to the 30% Solution!

Not so fast.

Remember I said the party bosses were behind Powers?  Well, it looks like they still may be.  Powers pulled a Lieberman and has secured a slot on the ballot for the seat running under the Working Families Party.  So, let’s recap:  The WOMAN who WON the primary for the Democratic party is now running in a three way race against the Republican AND the Democratic Party’s favorite candidate who is now running in a third party.  And this is OK?

Darragh Murphy sums it up this way:

Maybe. If the 2nd place winner (aka loser) does not take his name off the ballot and tries to handicap her, then it will be split. If he does the Hillary Thing and Step Aside for Party Unity, then she’ll have a much clearer shot.

Hmmm, why aren’t the Party Elders stepping in crying foul when a man doesn’t step aside for a woman to attain power?


Yes, Darragh, these are good questions.  Why aren’t the men who are dragging the party into permanent second class status stepping down?  Why is Powers stepping on the toes of the woman who won the primary?  It sort of reminds me of Barack Obama who couldn’t close the deal in the primaries so he gamed and defrauded the caucuses and secured the support of the middle aged white guys in the party to take the woman out.  Or is it like the Obama who sidelined Alice Palmer?  I dunno.  It just reminds me of Barack Obama.  I guess I will never completely get the taste of his dishonorable primary “win” out of my mouth.  The DNC shouldn’t kid themselves about this.  It’s going to follow them around like a silent but deadly fart for years to come. The least they could do to make amends is to pressure Powers to drop out in his race against Kryzan.  It’s the very least they could do.  But somehow, I don’t expect it.


It looks like it is up to us to help Alice out.  The good news is that Emily’s List has woken up and smelled the Starbucks and is now supporting her.  But there’s no doubt about it, Alice has an uphill climb with Powers still in the race.  She can take this district with the right backing and extra effort.  So, if you want to send a message to District 26 power brokers and the DNC, why not come to Alice’s aid and contribute time or money to her campaign?  We are adding Alice to our ActBlue for The Confluence page.  If you make a donation through it, Alice will know it comes from us.  We can build some street cred and mojo for Conflucians and PUMAs.  The DNC will think twice about messing with elections in the future.  Let’s give it a try, shall we?

Tonight is the weekly fundraiser on Conflucians Say.  Take the $35 bucks you were originally going to send to the DNC and divvy it up among our ActBlue Slate.  Or send a yuppie food stamp to Democrats for Principle Before Party where Heidi Li will put it to good use buying ads in congressional journals.  Let the DNC know that we are out here, we are strong and we are legion.  Show them your pride!

Extra! Found at Not Your Sweeties:

Hmmm, XY speaks to XX?

Hmmm, Mr. Y speaks to Ms. X's?

121 Responses

  1. The Year of the Penis – and I can see many variations on this theme – I hope that by November this will not remain so…
    Meanwhile, life out there in the real world is quite different from what the media is telling us

  2. I’m not surprised by this after what happened here in NM CD-2 where Richardson forced out the true progressive from the primary, the guy who got 40% of the vote against Steve Pearce last time out…with no support and no money! The place was ripe for Al Kissling, who did all the dirty work himself, only to be pushed out at the party convention…his rep was given 30 seconds to speak, and no respect. The workings of this Party are pretty ugly!!

    As is the media….all we get is propaganda these days…here’s a joint effort…
    Put these together because they are intertwined…the Obama media followed by a look at Nick Davies “Flat Earth News,” a scathing expose on how the media works…and why we don’t get the info we need…It’s so disheartening!!!!

    SHILLING and CHURNING–the State of the Media and the “Mass Production of Ignorance” (A Double Post by kenosha Marge and InsightAnalytical-GRL)


  3. RD – thanks again for another enlightening post regarding our Dimocrat Party. Your blog – your words have kept me going. You are closing in fast on 3 million comments girl and your commenters are superior!

    Lynn Forester de Rothechild was on Fox this morning and, while I enjoyed her announcement yesterday – today she is getting specific. It is such a charge to hear the truth about this campaign and about BZero et al. She is an amazing spokes person – oozes intelligence and class. Heretofore, we really had no idea of how the big donors felt or how many of us there really is. I look forward to hearing more of what she has to say. What a stark difference between her and BZero’s bluffoon supporters.

    Why oh why has the party lost it’s mind? Scary stupid?

  4. Is this what happens, whey

  5. Hmmm, Mr. Y speaks to Ms. X’s?


  6. What has happened to the party…….They want it, their way and that is…..that. Rothchild is right, they have gone to….too…..far left and it’s dangerous.

  7. Not exactly the golden rule, considering the fate of the others, once the first one makes it…

    Yup, all sperm is sacred.

  8. Hillary-zila, madamab and I are “related” to your avatar!

  9. Nah….the D party wouldn’t know “left” from “cleft”

  10. And the headline says: Senate Majority Leader on Economic Woes: ‘No One Knows What to Do’

    Well, Harry, whip out your damn cellphone and CALL HILLARY. She knows what to do, you moron. She always has. But you waste time looking around the room and calling on every doofus and jock, trying to tease a coherent answer out of them. Meanwhile, the SMART girl with the answers has had her hand up for months.

    Oh, and yay for Alice Kryzan! I’ll be sending her some money for some anti-pig ammunition.

  11. ‘No One Knows What to Do’

    Way to show “leadership”. sigh.

    I guess O was right when he said the GOP is the party of ideas.

  12. Hillary-zila, on September 18th, 2008 at 8:16 am Said:
    What has happened to the party…….They want it, their way and that is…..that. Rothchild is right, they have gone to….too…..far left and it’s dangerous

    Actually, I’d be very happy if that were true. Obama is to the right of Hill on nearly every domestic issue.

  13. Boo Radly, what has she gotten specific about? I didn’t catch her.

  14. masslib: si.

    oh and…blog stats looking good.

  15. Boo: “Dimocrat Party”

    Did you mean the Deanmocrat Party?

  16. To be absolutley honest (and I hope that’s OK?) I am having a little bit of a problem with your take on the NY congressional election (District 26, I think).

    Is not Powers entirely within his rights to accept the nomination of a third party? I mean, this IS America, no?

    On the other hand, if the Democratic Party of NYS “contrived” (= arranged) for his selection by that third party, then I would agree that the fix was in and I’d join you in excoriating them. What’s really the story here?

    Politics ain’t easy…


  17. Can someone get the “clip” of the PUMA @ yesterday’s town-hall meeting??!!
    Fox showed a different part & never mentioned it.

  18. Trolls on the May 17 thread Cokie Roberts, maybe 4 of them

  19. So, Powers is doing a Lieberman, and the Lieberman-hating oh-so-liberal Deaniacs are supporting it?

    That’s just pathetic.

  20. FOX just reported Biden’s latest gaffe!!

    Biden, this morning, on Americans paying MORE taxes!!

    “It’s time to be patriotic. Time to jump in. Time to be part of the deal.”

  21. More headlines today: Democratic Congress May Adjourn, Leave Crisis to Fed, Treasury

    Nancy and Company are all going to Hawaii to eat waffles. Actual governing makes them pissy and tired.


    FOX reporting new threat from Russia:

    Russia Threatening to Seize Control of Arctic

    Under International Law, every country that butts up against the Arcitc, US, Canada, Russia, has shared rights to it. Russia is going for the oil in the Arctic shelf.

    Palin is right! We do have to keep our eye on the Russians!

  23. Actually you would be a little weary as well and demanding a vacation if you have spent the last year wheeling and dealing just to make Obama president. How in the world did you expect them to have time to squeeze in the people’s business along the way? First things first.

    It is best to just step back when you have admitted you “don’t know what to do”. Assess the situation and “hope” the “change” Obama promises will transform into peace and prosperity come November 4th. Until then, expect to receive a postcard inscribed “wish you were here!”.

  24. IronMan –

    Biden, this morning, on Americans paying MORE taxes!!

    “It’s time to be patriotic. Time to jump in. Time to be part of the deal.”

    Actually, I agree with this. Too bad Joe’s not in the top spot. He’s infinitely better than Oba-Moi in my eyes.

  25. PJ – LOL!

    I think you got every soundbyte in there. You are good, my friend!


  26. OT- but important matter is threatening our energy security and the future security of the world.

    Russia aims to assert control over Arctic


    Canada’s response:

    “When we see a Russian Bear approaching Canadian air space, we meet them with an F-18,” said MacKay, referring to Arctic patrol flights by Russian bombers. “We remind them that this is Canadian airspace, that this is Canadian sovereign airspace, and they turn back. And we are going to continue to do that, to demonstrate that we are watching closely their activities here.”

    This is a potential international crisis that could really spiral out of control and in a hurry!

    Now more than ever, we need Mccain-Palin in the White House!!

    Mccain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  27. I heart Barack Obama 🙂

    (edited by the moderator to cut through the bullshit)

  28. Putin is a force to be reckoned with. He has grand designs and will achieve them by force if necessary. We will need someone tough to go up against him while ensuring that we continue to receive the oil we need to survive. Bear in mind, this guy controls quite a bit of the pipeline. He who holds the rights to turn that spigot off an on is in charge. He did it once last year to European countries just to give them an idea of what he could do. This guy is a player.

  29. […] from The Confluence, riverdaughter tells the tale of Alice Kryzan Now comes Alice Kryzan.  Alice is a well respected attorney in the area of environmental law.  […]

  30. IronMan said:

    “Palin is right! We do have to keep our eye on the Russians!”

    OMG, people, let’s not get too crazy here. I mean, chill a little…

    The cold war is OVER! Russian has every right to exploer for oil in international waters (i.e. outside our sovereignty). So has Canada, Finland, Norway, Iceland and Denmark (Greenland).

    I will be voting for McCain/Palin, but that doesn’t mean I agree with them on their every thought (in fact, I agree very little – I’m voting against Obama). Nor need we treat every missive from Fox ascoming from “on high!”

    Proportion, proportion, proporation…


  31. Actually, I agree with this. Too bad Joe’s not in the top spot. He’s infinitely better than Oba-Moi in my eyes.

    Me too. Even though Biden’s not progressive, I know he’s a Democrat, and he never dissed Hillary in the primary.

  32. I appear to be in moderation and I don’t know why…


  33. Usama bin Laden must be having a second or third donut this morning in celebration of his own predictions. The American way of life will implode on its own without too much help from him. We are drowning in debt, practically owned by the Chinese, our military is diminishing in size, the dollar has shrunk, bogged down in Iraq, facing an even shakier economy, and the trust of the American people in its leaders is evaporating.

    Yet our congressional leaders have elected to take time off and deal with it later. Sounds an awful lot like my way of housecleaning. Sweep it under the rug and hope the bulging mess goes unnoticed. As for the gathering storm clouds, in my house they are called cobwebs. Ignore them.
    I may just go on vacation too!

  34. Thanks!


  35. More headlines today: Democratic Congress May Adjourn, Leave Crisis to Fed, Treasury

    Didn’t they just go back to work?? BO really does really represent them. It’s such HARD WORK…let’s all go to Hawaii.

  36. These Dimocratic Party (good one Boo) manipulations are making me tired. Apparently there is a new dept. in the DNC called FUO – acronyms are great, aren’t they. The f****** Us Over department must be getting overtime pay.

  37. Will someone-anyone-ever get this story out. Will have to be in a 15 second sound bite, which will be hard considering the twists and turns of it.

  38. What happened to Kerry’s primary on Tuesday?

  39. I think the easiest way to judge Palin is by asking the question: is she any better or worse than any member of congress at the present time? However you arrive at your response indicates that she has as good a shot as any given the mediocrity and mendacity of those already entrusted to lead.

    For me, she cannot be any worse. These people are useless so far. Judging her against their sorry accomplishments makes her appear far more qualified at this point. They are useless, useless, useless. She at least has tried to do something by giving back.

  40. SOD—you are exactly right. Something is wrong. Up is down and wrong is right and nobody cares anymore. Imagine how Hillary feels.

  41. Shainzona: He won.

  42. I’d better go do some work–I’m really in a downer today. Don’t want to be infectious.

  43. In Elko, Obama tried to anticipate his critics and called on the crowd of about 1,500 to sharpen their elbows, too.

    “I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,” he said.


    Time to get in the face of Obama and expose his BS and lies! The media is failing to do it. Time for America to stand up and hit back!

  44. I know tons of women who gladly self-sacrifice for the “greater good” or “unity” or whatever you choose to call it. They do it for family, for work, for friends.

    I dont know as many men who do.

    In politics, this doesn’t get women elected.

    Hillary stopped her campaign for “unity”. I doubt Bill would have stopped. Carter and Kennedy almost came to blows on the convention floor, and Kennedy had no chance at all.

    By and large girls play a different game than boys.

    It doesnt help at all that “women” aren’t a voting block. Some of the most rabid Obamabots from day 1 have been female. Some of the most rabid Palin haters are women.


  45. IronMan: Thanks for the advice BO. I’ve been doing just that, talking to friends and neighbors and acquaintances, getting in their face for months: exposing OBAMA’S HYPOCRISY AND WEAKNESS.

    I supposed that isn’t what he meant, but TFB.

  46. Anglachel has another great post this morning. Of course, it is showing that it is too late for Hillary who had a shot at this mess but it is revealing all the same. Neither candidate has a clearcut solutions beyond words to right this wrong. Sad.

  47. SOD: is that true about the web site? I heard on the radio yesterday that the Secret Service AND FBI are involved and that the info. would be removed, because the site itself can be punished equally for the Federal violation.

  48. Fannie Mae CEO to Democrats: You Are Our ‘Family’ and ‘Conscience’

    Shocking video of Fannie Mae CEO praising Obama and the Democrats ni Congress. A group that unfortunately, chose to do nothing!


    Obama is part of the problem!

    Spread the word!

  49. I would pay big money for an Obamabot to come “get in my face” this morning.

    I am in a foul mood!

    Just the thought of it makes me smile 🙂

  50. Earth to Joe Biden.
    I pay enough taxes.

    I’ve been preparing taxes for small business for 25 years.
    Some of my small business clients are paying their bills with plastic and have stopped paying themselves so they can pay employees, health insurance, etc.

    Middle income individuals pay more than their fair share already.
    How about some relief?

    ohgoddess where is Hillary she understands these things

  51. On taxes Biden has fumbled the ball; Republican linemen are usually able to return these well past midfield…

  52. Ironman:

    In Elko, Obama tried to anticipate his critics and called on the crowd of about 1,500 to sharpen their elbows, too.

    “I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,” he said.


    Thanks for posting this here. Clearly, O just does not get it. I have become an Independent (have been a Democrat all my life until now), and I don’t really care what letter follows my name (R, I or D). I do NOT want anyone getting in my face and arguing with me. This is very disrespectful and uncivil.

    I am happy to talk with someone if they truly want to hear why I feel the way I do, why I am NOT voting for BO and why I am so upset about the party I have supported all my life. What I do not want is someone screaming in my face about why I am wrong, stupid, bitter, etc….Having people argue with me and get in my face is exactly what has turned me off to BO. How very out of touch he is.

  53. Shain

    Kerry won here in MA
    Ed O got about 30% of the vote.

    I had so much fun voting against Kerry on Tuesday I plan to vote for his Republican challenger in November.
    His name is Jeff Beatty.
    He stands firm in his belief that invading Iraq was a mistake.
    Seems like that would take some guts-he openly disagrees with the Republicans and McCain on this.
    Going to a fair in Bedford, MA on Saturday to meet him.
    I may pick up a lawn sign while I’m at it.

    The DNC must me stopped and John Kerry needs to go.

  54. thats “be”, not “me”
    2nd cup time.

  55. DOW up 141 points this morning.

    Obama is upset about that!

    On Biden’s comments today that low taxes are “unpatriotic” ?? HUH?? WTF is he thinking?

    Biden is the ass that keeps on giving.

  56. Ironman
    you stole my arms!

  57. Walter Mondale (whom I commend for his honesty) once made the same kind of fumble, returned for a touchdown…

    “Mr. Reagan will raise taxes. And so will I. He won’t tell you. I just did.”

  58. Please tax me more, I want to be a patriot too! Already I am deciding between food and meds so why not just add another column to my list of funding shortages. The cupboard may be bare but I am feeling that “Yankee Doodle Dandy” spirit once again! Thanks, Joe!

  59. ha!Ha! Until you put it that way, I didn’t even realize how that graphic ties in with Clinton’s “example” about candidate Y and candidate X

  60. It was reported last week that the Bidens charitable contributions were very low in proportion to their income.

    Maybe they just don’t claim them all so they can be patriotic and pay more taxes???


  61. catarina – please know that when you vote against Kerry in November, you’re doing it for this Arizonian, too.

    At least Ed got a reasonable total.

  62. the bidens gave something like $300 in donations last year, their total income around $300k

    thats ridiculous! how can they justify this?

  63. Who needs an Iran Surprise, Russia is doing the job now…

    They laid claim to a large chunk quite awhile ago (I reported it in my old World Media Watch for B…fl…sh) and the Canadians set up a whole patrol system…

    This has been brewing for quite awhile….seems like Putin is upping the ante (hey, their Prez is like Obama….someone behind the scenes pulling the strings….)

  64. Why is the Dem congress thinking of adjourning for heaven’s sake. They just came back to work. How many vacation days did we give them in their contract with us? Maybe they are running away to hide out because so many of them are going to be caught with their hands in the financial mess cookie jar. I didn’t think life could get any more bizarre during this election cycle but there is something new and disgusting every day with our government and it’s process of election. I would like to take a recess until January ok? Unfortunately I have to work for a living unlike our congress.

  65. Hello ? ? … Is it time for us to create our own political party yet?

  66. Rockspot – Maybe!

    I like Myiq’s idea of a voting bloc, the support of which can be gained only by pushing for whatever platform we decide upon – like universal healthcare, the breakup of corporate monopolies, the re-regulation of the financial industry, implementing the ERA and some kind of Constitutional gay rights amendment too…things like that.

  67. Bidn’s 2007 tax returns:

    # 2007
    Joseph R. and Jill T. Biden joint tax return
    # Total income: $319,853 ($71,000 income from royalties from his book; $66,546 – Jill Biden’s teaching job; $20,500 – Joe Biden’s teaching job; $161,708 – Joe Biden’s Senate salary)
    # AMT: $2,721
    # Deductions: $26,516 in state/local/real estate taxes; $38,712 home mortgage interest; $995 “Gifts to Charity”
    # Interest: $99 from various sources
    (According to his financial disclosure form filed with the Senate, he also received a $112,500 book advance from Random House and he donated $1,025 in honoraria from TV personalities David Letterman and Bill Maher to charity)

    Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/12/politics/horserace/entry4445194.shtml


    She starts at about 1:49


  69. Biden’s comment was dumb…THAT is exactly the kind of comment that would drive my dad, an independent who supported Hillary, and who is now undecided leaning McCain, straight to the polls…

    I like Joe Biden a lot (yeah, i know, he is in bed with the financial industry, his plan to divide Iraq was foolish, but he is a real Democrat, for the most part), but I see the republicans having a field day with this one…UNLESS they chose to stay away from it because it would be questioning the patriotism of he one

    The gaffe isn’t up on The Page yet, though, and I feel like if the media was really going to make something of it, it would be up there…we all know who decides what is a gaffe and what is not…

  70. Hi folks. Feeling a little down this morning. My country is in trouble, and if Obama wins, it will be so much worse. We’ve all enumerated why. But this morning, after reading’s O’s I want-you-to-get-in-their-faces comments, something new occcured to me:

    Obama is small-time.

    He is small-time.

    He is so small-time.

    I don’t know why I never realized this before. He’s just a small-time Chicago crook, used to cheating and slouching his way through. To make himself look big, he builds temples, as we know. But his thinking, his ways of speaking, of doing things, of relating to others and the world, is irreducibly small. “Just get in someone’s face and yell.” Read a speech off a teleprompter. Do nothing that involves risk or taking a stand. Vote present. Don’t vote at all. Or flip-flop like a minnow on a great beach.

    And there’s a chance this is who we’re going to send up against Putin, if it comes to that?

  71. Quite honestly, why are so-called Democrats still bitching about Lieberman? It was the NUTROOTS who drove him out of the party and ran an idiot against him.

    I will NEVER forgive the nutroots for doing this when the Democrats could NOT afford defections.

    A person has the RIGHT to run for public office. Don’t whine about it.

  72. WMCB – Thanks fo rthe link. The PUMA and Sarah were great, but John not so much. Charter schools and vouchers to promote equity for women? He hasn’t thought about this much.

  73. no, purple, he did not do as well as Palin did. He did mention enforcing existing discrimination laws, but the school thing was a big wander off topic. Maybe no one had asked a school question yet, so he wanted to go there and get that in by some weird segue.

    The PUMA, however, was great. 🙂

  74. Hopefully, Biden was talking about the rich giving up their tax cuts which they should never have gotten particularly while we are “at war”? I think some context would be helpful. Anyone can sound stupid out of context. Let’s not be like the Obots.

  75. susannunes,

    I certainly agree with you in principle (see my comment above). However, I do believe that we could do without Lieberman, and would have been happy had he lost the ’06 CT senatorial election.


  76. susannunes, on September 18th, 2008 at 10:46 am Said:
    Quite honestly, why are so-called Democrats still bitching about Lieberman? It was the NUTROOTS who drove him out of the party and ran an idiot against him.


    I’m one of those folks who went up and campaigned for Ned Lamont. Glad I did too. Until Lamont came along the Dems where too afraid to speak out against the war. After Lamont won the primary the Dems finally saw that being against the war wasn’t going to cost them elections.

  77. Magdalena: I hear you. Loud and clear. The aspect of an Obama win has me up at night. I thought it was bad enough when Bush took the reins in 2000 and none of us ever saw 9/11 coming down the pike. This makes it more unsettling. And Putin is a heavy part of the equation. Iraq aside, this guy means business and he has the clout to make it so. Dealing with him is going to require some heavy hitting and Obama can’t expect to just “get in his face” to ease the situation. Keep your eye on Putin. The troubles lie there.

  78. Joan, on September 18th, 2008 at 10:51 am Said:

    Hopefully, Biden was talking about the rich giving up their tax cuts which they should never have gotten particularly while we are “at war”? I think some context would be helpful. Anyone can sound stupid out of context. Let’s not be like the Obots.


    “Hopefull” doesn’t cut it-sorry. I so despise that ‘H” word.

    Have you seen Obama’s tax plan? Perhaps you should check out the details.
    It will hurt small businesses and many working families.
    Tax increases are not just for houselholds with earnings
    of over $250K. That is a flat out lie and stolen from Hillary!

    Are YOU an Obot??

  79. Susannunes – You think Lieberman is a Democrat?


    And don’t call me a nut. Stop insulting people or get out of here.

  80. Joan, on September 18th, 2008 at 10:51 am Said:

    Hopefully, Biden was talking about the rich giving up their tax cuts which they should never have gotten particularly while we are “at war”? I think some context would be helpful. Anyone can sound stupid out of context. Let’s not be like the Obots.

    Agreed. Also the fact that we borrowed to pay for Bush’s unnecessary war. Bush never asked non-military citizens to sacrifice directly for the cause. I know, we’re all paying anyway.

  81. Jesus Christ, people, chill out.

    Joan is not an Obot. I don’t think we should jump all over every statement like the wingnuts and Obots do. I agree that the rich should pay more tax, and the corporations should stop paying no taxes at all.

    Even Warren Buffett thinks the current taxation system is unfair; he says he pays less taxes than his secretary.

  82. Joan, even if that was what Biden was talking about, it was a political error to put it the way he did.

    Hillary could talk about being fairer in the tax code without freaking people out, because you got the sense that she was prudent and practical, and it fit in with her entire economic message.

    Biden and Obama have been taking the “let’s raise taxes on those dirty rich people” tack – and after their comments on McCain’s houses, etc, it is going to come across as “we’re taking your money, because the poor deserve it more than you do, you selfish bastards.”

    It’s about perceptions, and Obama has been feeding an “eat the rich, I know better than you what to do with YOUR money” meme. He’s fed it with his attitudes and phrasing, more so than policy. So much so that what his campaign says now is going to be SEEN through that prism.

    Hillary was a master at approaching the tax code from a practical fairness standpoint. She was always VERY careful to not have even a whiff of guilt-bashing in how she approached it, because she knows American voters well enough to know that the instant response is suspicious resistance.

  83. Lamont was not an “idiot” and Lieberman’s win was based more on Republicans voting to keep him in the Senate than it was on any Dem support. Lamont was correct on that issue then and now.

  84. madamab

    I find “let’s not act like Obots” offensive the way you find “nutroots” offensive.

    Obama’s tax plan is absurd and his camp has stopped being honest about the details of it.
    Instead they are stealing HRC’s lines when the real deal
    will increase many types of taxes and affect many income levels.

    Unfortunately, it’s not about taxing the rich.

  85. Here’s a comparison of McCain/Obama tax proposals from Truth or Fiction:


  86. madamab,

    I find you, as always, the voice of sanity…


  87. I happen to agree that higher taxes are a lesser evil than deficit spending, in the same way that it’s better to pay bills now than rack up credit card debt.

    However, quite apart from the merits, Biden certainly blundered. The Bush tax cuts are set to expire anyway, so he got himself into trouble without any necessity. That by definition is an unforced error.

  88. PJ – Yup.

    Anytime a “Democrat” refuses to accept the primary results and runs as a “CFL” instead of a Democrat, you can pretty much cross him off the “D” list.

    Besides, he spoke at the Republican Convention this year. I think it’s pretty safe to say he has been a huge hindrance to any progressive Democratic agenda.






    The current concerns with the Markets poses a threat to our economic situation.

    Just thought you all would need an update:

  90. I’m mostly a lurker though I do post sporadically. What I’ve noticed here the past few days that we’re starting to fight amongst ourselves. It’s just an observation and not meant to put people on the defensive.

  91. Thanks for the info RD. So really at the DNC it is women need not apply. Good to know. If only other women’s organizations would have their “Oh Sh!t” moments all women would benefit greatly. Women need to realize that we sink or swim together. Time to swim together, I’m through with sinking.

  92. Thanks, PSV.

    Catarina – Fair enough. I think we’ve got enough anxiety right now without calling each other names.

    JohninCA – Well, Obama now says he might delay rescinding those tax cuts if the economy is still doing really badly “when” he is elected.

    So he is now implying that the Bush tax cuts are helping the economy. AAAAAAAAACK!

    I really think the Dem camp is way off-message with the economy. Biden is doing the more traditional thing, whereas Obama is doing his BothWays Barack thing.

    Oy. Pass the popcorn and hold on to your wallets.

  93. lisadawn: You are probably correct in your assessment. It may be a result of feeling helpless against the tide that has overtaken us. We sometimes let our emotions get the best of us because we have been left out of the decision making process and are now left with choices none of us ever expected to make.

    If I have been a party to that, I sincerely apologize since this blog has become a haven for like minded people who fully and enthusiastically supported Hillary Clinton.

    I think we are all on the defensive in some ways since we are no longer joined in a common goal but seeking a way of finding ourselves once again. Once in awhile the tone does rise to a level that we need to step back and consider.

  94. Couric is going on the road with Sarah!

    That will be good.

  95. Hi Pat. I’ve been reading your comments for the last few days and feel so much as you do. I actually woke up this morning and felt so bad I almost didn’t care anymore. That is not like me. (Someone delete this comment if it is too much of a downer.)

    My country is in trouble. I would feel better, regardless of the outcome of the election, if I knew our basic processes are working. They are not. My own party is corrupt beyond recognition. I can’t find a single, balanced media outlet. Congress doesn’t know what to do and is going on vacation. We’re either going to get a small-time crook of a kid, or a well-intentioned but narrow elder statesman, for our president. Half our population (female) is deemed unfit to serve as CIC; large portions of my nation’s energy are devoted to slamming Palin instead of studying Putin. I miss Hillary so profoundly I’m dumbstruck. I know she will do her best from where she stands, but there are limits . . .

    Had to get this off my chest.

    Now someone kick me in the ass and get me moving again.


  96. Pat – I do believe you owe me a direct apology!

  97. I think Sarah knows her way around energy issues. I think Sarah has tried to make a difference in Alaska by putting her constituents ahead of special interests. I think Sarah can handle herself. And I also think that Sarah is no better nor worse then what we have already elected to congress at the moment.

    My litmus test: is she better than Nasty Nancy? Absolutely. As you can see I am softening a little.

  98. Hi All, Just a little joke found in a comment on No Quarter:

    The Presidential election was too close to call. Neither the Republican candidate nor the Democratic candidate had enough votes to win. There was much talk about ballot recounting, court challenges, etc., but a week-long ice fishing competition seemed the sportsmanlike way to settle things. The candidate that caught the most fish at the end of the week would win the election.

    Therefore, it was decided that there should be an ice fishing contest between the two candidates to determine the winner.

    After much back and forth discussion, it was decided that the contest take place on a remote frozen lake in northern Minnesota .

    There were to be no observers present, and both men were to be sent out separately on this isolated lake and return at 5 P.M. with t heir catch for counting and verification by a team of neutral parties. At the end of the first day, John McCain returned to the starting line and he had ten fish.

    Soon, Obama returned and had no fish. Well, everyone assumed he was just having another ‘bad hair’ day or something and hopefully, he would catch up the next day.

    At the end of the 2nd day John McCain came in with 20 fish and Obama came in again with none.

    That evening, Harry Reid got together secretly with Obama and said, ‘Obama, I think John McCain is a low-life, cheatin’ son-of-a-gun. I want you to go out tomorrow and don’t even bother with fishing. Just spy on him and see just how he is cheating.’

    The next night (after John McCain returns with 50 fish), Reid said to Obama, ‘Well, tell me, how is John McCain cheating?’

    Obama replied, ‘Harry, you’re not going to believe this, but he’s cutting holes in the ice.’

    Experience Counts

  99. Calm down everyone.

    McCain/Palin have the best economic plan going.

    Cut spending, review and end pork barrel projects, lower taxes, end the huge bureaucracies that still exist that are no longer necessary………….

    More taxes on projects that most people don’t want or need is lucacrous.

    Obama/Biden are ridiculous.

  100. Go ahead Pat – spit it out there – you are joyfully voting for McCain/Palin.

    It doesn’t hurt, it actually feels really good!

  101. Become energy independent is the most important issue we have. It is what holds us hostage to the nut cases of the world.

  102. Magdalena: A thought to cheer you up: Carol is “demanding” an apology from me for stealing Ed. You may as well ask me to crown Donna B as Miss Congeniality. Won’t happen. As long as Ed is playing “nanny” in Texas, no apology is forthcoming. And I know you will agree.

    And by the way, I am showered and dressed for the first time since Monday. The headache has receded, I am still a little wheezy, my stomach as stopped roiling, and I am leaving the house for awhile before my neighbors begin to think of me as Emily Dickinson.

    Magdalena, things are bleak but without a semblance of humor we will never make it. Remember, each one of us shares these same feelings, nothing unusual. We just react differently. Angry, measured, silly at times. But as the great Red Green was used to saying: we are all in this together!

  103. Thanks, Pat. Glad you are feeling better.

    I think I’ll do some yoga. That should help.

    I’m going to need a strong core to face the months ahead!


  104. New post up!!!

    And it’s a goooood one.

  105. Magdalena: I would gladly send Ed over but I am not in possession at the moment. Talk to Carol. She may be able to find him through the forest of trees that constitute her living room “decorations”.

    I am off to Target. It is nice to know that when one hits rock bottom there is always someone there to extend a hand. May not be much in the long run, but it sure helps knowing that you are not alone.

  106. Shades of Rahm Emmanuel supporting double amputee Iraq Vet Tammy Baldwin over the estalished liberal vote getter in one of the midwest races (forget which) for Congress in 2004. All the elite modern day Dems who would never sidetrack their very important careers, much less risk their a$$es, to serve in the military, fall all over themselves to recruit actual Vets to the ticket no matter how conservative or wrong headed or DINO he or she may be.

    I don’t know anything about Alice or Powers, but I smell the same pattern of manipulation going on here. Even though I am not contributing much to downticket Dems, I will take a look at Alice.

    Hope others do too. Thanks for the heads up.

  107. Carol,

    With all due respect, becoming energy independent is not the most important issue out there, if by that you mean assuring ourselves of an uninterrupted and unending supply of oil: not gonna’ happen!

    More Important:

    1. Conservation of petroleum products: people don’t have to drive as much as they do in, e.g. urban areas (I haven’t had a car in 19 years – I rent when I need one).

    2. Explore alternative energy sources. This is important becuase no matter what we do, there is only a finite amount of oil, and it CANNOT be replaced.

    3. Do our best to help to NOT inflame the middle east, i.e.don’t start stupid wars in places like Iraq, and do our best to allay rather than inflame passions there. On this note, I think it’s important to note that neither candidate has a plan that will get us out of Iraq, nor make peace with the arab world.

    Just my thoughts…


  108. Park – energy independence takes many forms. No, oil is not the only source of energy, and I haven’t seen either party declare it to be.

    The middle east doesn’t need to be inflamed. The Iraq War has been going on for 5.5 years. They have been fighting there for millieniums.

    I live in Dallas, renting a car when I need it is not a valid argument.

    When you enemy holds you hostage, you really don’t have control of your options. We need to break that hold.

    Just my thoughts……….

  109. SOD: Gawker.com hacks and posts Palin’s private emails, pictures and contact list on their website – which is still there — and nothing is done to even remove it from the website.

    I find that I couldn’t get myself to go to the website with the posted stuff. I just couldn’t. It is such an invasion of privacy. I wouldn’t do that to my worst enemy. The gall of those people flouting people’s rights! I hope the FBI nails those SOBs.

  110. it’s like how harry reid when he became senate leader created a new number three position under him that pushed patty murray back to number 4 when she would have originailly been number 3 if he hadn’t pulled that crap. i am sick of these men thinking that since they have penises they can push the women in congress and the senate around to make themselves look more macho and better than the women… and also, then how the heck did nancy pelosi win majority leader in the house? how did that happen with all the penises flying around who want to push women backwards? strange…

  111. SOD, I do not understand either. It is incomprehensible. They might think, Palin is just a woman, after all. Who would care?

  112. HEY!!!!!

    As someone who works for the Democratic Committee in the District Alice is running in I can tell you that you are 100% way off base on these accusations.

    Where did this come from? Powers can do what he wants but that has no bearing what-so-ever on our efforts here at headquarters.

    As a longtime and loyal reader (yours is still the first blog I check everyday along with Anglachel and Allegre.) I am pretty miffed!

    Our Headquarters worked long and hard for Sen Clinton (in four states) and has ALWAYS been in favor of promoting strong female candidates (several county and State Supreme Court judges, county legislators, heck we even endorsed a female candidate for NYS Attorney General over Andrew Cuomo in 2006.) I love you guys but whoa!

  113. Also I should point out that the only way Powers can remove his name from the ballot is if he moves out the district or dies! The fact that he is on there still is a quirk of New Yorks election laws regarding minor parties. It stinks, but this isnt’ the first time someone who lost on one of the major lines hangs around on the minor lines.

  114. CNN at its best – Campbell B nearly has a fit with teh eloquent Lady d R!


  115. I need change man….seriously.

    (edited for no particular reason other than I felt like it 🙂 )

  116. orangehairboy: It’s pure cult of personality-driven politics.

    Look who’s using the word “cult.” LOL!

  117. Orangehairboy,

    Hate to break it to you, but I consider myself a PUMA. I was here on the night that SM coined the term and I’ve been arguing with friends family and co-workers about what we’re after ever since Hint: personality politics ain’t it!

    So I’ll thank you not to use me as a stick to slam my fellow PUMAs with, thank you very much.

    I spoke up today to correct what I saw as a few misconceptions about how this particular race in my county was going, that’s it. So why don’t you head on back to DU or KOS or wherever the h**l it is you slinked out of, OK? Or better yet, why not get out of your mother’s basement and get some sun?

  118. My mom says if I keep sticking my finger up there it’ll get stuck, but I can’t help it, it tastes SOOOO good!!!

  119. Oh, and btw, what’s with all the Lieberman support from this group?

    Methinks orangehairboy has very low reading comprehension skills.

  120. teacher says if I learn my abc’s I can have a lolly!

  121. i need the change dude….just one hit, please?

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