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Scratching Post Wednesday: What kind of PUMA, and/or Clinton Democrat are you?

Wake me up when it's November 5th, 2008

Wake me up when it's 11/5/2008

Sheezus H.Cripes, do I need a drink!

My dearest Conflucians!  I must apologize for being MIA lately.   Real life job-opportunity is taking a bit readjusting with PUMA cub versus blog life. I’ve missed you all and hope to get back on track with my favorite corner in the blogosphere. So where did I leave off…oh yeah! McCain/Palin is kicking The Precious’ behind (like we didn’t see that coming.)

Within your PUMA or unPUMA-yet-Clinton-Democrat-ness, there is something that’s brewing in our great nation.  People ain’t buying the hope & change schtick.  So far, I’m still PUMA and proud and voting my conscience on top of the ticket, but not for Obama.  And so far, I’m supporting down-ticket Dems in my state since I live in Florida.  Your case in your state may be different, but living in a red state like I do, we need all the down-ticket Dems we can get!  Now if that Democrat trampled on Democracy for political expediency, my vote will never go to them (like Wexler down in Ft. Lauderdale area).  What you do with your vote is your own damn business.  You do what you gotta do to get Democracy back to the Democratic Party in your neck of the woods. 

I’m still a progressive liberal, and as we’ve discovered this primary season, “progressive liberal” is not mutually exclusive to being a “Democrat.”  I want universal healthcare, green energy & jobs, equal rights for ALL people, comprehensive and humane immigration reform, full protection of women’s reproductive rights, diplomatic and effective foreign policy, etc., i.e. What Hillary Said.  Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans (or any third party alternative) has addressed the issues as Hillary did, and for that, I’m willing to wait.  But it seems like we’re waiting in vain for that moment when the DNC will acknowledge that Hillary was the most progressive and most electable of all the candidates they threw on us.  God knows the majority didn’t vote of any of those guys.   I don’t wanna wait in vain if the DNC doesn’t back Hillary come November 5th, 2008.  But for some reason, I still feel that the DNC will rally around the Democrat that won the popular vote if Obama loses big (as we already know he will) this November 4th. 

In order to have a more tolerable next 4 years, we have to support down-ticket Dems for that to happen, since the Chicago based DNC won’t help them (IMHO of course).   How do you feel about that?  let me know in the comments section. 

Speaking of waiting, Bob Marley’s “Waiting in Vain” pops in my mind.  Rico has spiced Jamaican Rum cocktails ready to go and Flo’s in gear like Bruce Lee for Gollums evoking harmful words just in case.   This is also an open thread for those who want to fill us in on the latest on the blogosphere.   Special shout out to our Texan Conflucian dealing with Hurrican Ike.  Carol & Regency, are you ok?

¡Que viva los PUMA!

265 Responses

  1. Hey SM,

    I’ve been down there on madamab’s post talking to myself. Meanwhile everyone else was on a different post that I knew nothing about. Oh well…

    Glad to see you girl!

  2. Boston! Hey you! I’m here to talk for about an hour or so. I’ve been pooped lately but I’m adjusting tot he new job-thang.

    How’s the psychosphere in university town doing?

  3. I’ll have one of those Jamaican Rums. I need to calm myself after watching


    I cannot STAND that whiny, irritating, groveling BO apologist. Rove just told him he is “embarrassing himself.” He does that every night Karl.

  4. Viva! (where do you get that rotated !?)
    I’m in NJ putting me in the unfortunate position of having to vote for Lautenberg who would not commit to Hill. I emailed him plenty of times before the primary & told him that. I even voted against him in the primary since his opponent supported Hill. Since Lautenberg won, though, I either vote for him or we could lose a senate seat. Poo!

    Otherwise I OK here. My rep is up and he was a Hillary guy anyhow.

    (She said as if any of it made any difference since her governor gave all the 127 NJ delegate votes to Obama).

  5. LOL! Rove just said the perpetrators of the email hacking should be “thrown under the bus!”

    I’m sure they will be. I think we need a fleet now.

  6. The sky is falling! I’m agreeing with Karl Rove on Hannity! Aaacck!

  7. SM,

    Things are fine. I’m tired tonight because Wed. is a long day. I’m working as a teaching assistant and I have to lead 4 sections of discussions. I’m so happy your are succeeding jobwise, but I’ve really missed you and your great sense of humor.

  8. Welcome back, Sm77.

  9. Myers Rum & Coke, Rico!

    Still for hill, if you have PC, press the ALT button then a 173 or a 168.

  10. Boston – hugs to you too! Here’s a rum & cola while you decompress from today.

    Lakota, thank you – what are you having to drink tonight?

  11. Sm-Have to work tomorrow so I’m sticking a Chilean Chardonnay.

  12. Don’t mind me honey
    I’m just looking
    Smelt your chicken
    And I watched you cooking
    Souped up, jacked up, cracked up, stacked up
    You’re a bad stain
    And you need to be cleaned up

    And don’t it make you feel good?
    And don’t it make you feel good?

    Yazoo…State Farm!

    This last part had me thinking of El Jefe Obama!

  13. I have a question. Is Barack Obama going to use his teleprompter at the debate next Friday?

  14. Here’s another quote that I like from one Eleanor Roosevelt:

    “To comfort the afflicted you must afflict the comfortable”

    Every time PUMAS roar we make those at Obama Inc and DNC Inc squirm. Polls be damned. He’s losing and they KNOW It!

    Props today to Mrs de Rothchild. Telling it like it T-I-IZ!

  15. SM,

    No rum for me. I’ll take the coke though. I had my last drink in 1982.

  16. I haven’t been paying a lot of attention – but congrats on having a new job!

    I could use a few of those rum cocktails Rico has going on. My 401k is sinking rapidly, medicare screwed my mom on her insurance by suggesting she take a supplemental insurance plan that no doctors in our area will take and the o-bots are jamming every line of communication into any tv or radio show that has any whisper of negativity about Precious! See what happened to WGN-Radio here in Chicago the other night:


    Sheez, can’t we stop these people? Give us Hillary so we can straighten out healthcare, the economy and everything else going wrong in this country.

  17. SOD-I’m inspired by your quote. Here’s another by Sojourner Truth-

    “If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down, these women together ought to be able to turn it right side up again. ”

    PUMA Will Change the World!

  18. he Harder They Come The Harder They Fall…. ( with lyrics )

    Well, they tell me there’s a pie up in the sky
    Waiting for me when I die
    But between the day you’re born and when you die
    No one ever seems to hear you cry

    But as sure as the sun will shine
    I’m gonna get my share of what’s mine
    And then the harder they come
    The harder they fall, one and all (Ohh, ohh, ohh)
    I said the harder they come
    Harder they fall, one and all

    I said the oppressors are trying to keep me down
    Trying to drive me underground
    But they think they’re gonna have the battle won
    I say forgive them Lord, they know not what they’ve done

    But as sure as the sun will shine
    I’m gonna get my share of what’s mine
    I said the harder they come
    The harder they fall, one and all (Ohh, ohh, ohh)
    I said the harder they come
    Harder they fall, one and all (Yeah, yeah, yeah)
    Break it down!

    Well, I try to do the things that I want
    Cause when you’re dead, you know that you can’t
    I’d rather be a free man in my grave
    Than living as a puppet or a slave

    So as sure as the sun will shine
    I’m gonna get my share right of what’s mine
    And then the harder they come
    The harder they fall, one and all (Ohh, ohh, ohh)
    Ooh, the harder they come
    Harder they fall, one and all (Yeah, yeah, yeah)
    I said the harder they come
    The harder they fall, one and all (Yeah, yeah-ah-ah)
    I said the harder they come
    The harder they fall, one and all
    Break it down!

    Rockers Revenge…Peoetic Words

  19. Boston – sorry I made that error! Virgin Cola it is!

    I’ll join FIF on a shot of Myers.

  20. Hi sm – it didn’t work for me – no problem – been living without it all this time.

    Anyhow glad you’re back. Lots of new jobs around here – Arabella, you, there was someone else, too, I think.

    I find new jobs stressful. I understand why you needed time.

  21. I am being the only kind of Democrat I know how to be….one who will vote all Republican all up and down the line for the first time in my life. A message must be sent. I hope barry loses, there is house-cleaning, and I came come home. Otherwise, I will try, in my small way, to increase the size of the Republican tent. There are Republcan women for choice, Republicans for universal health care, and other groups. I will seek them out and find a new place.

  22. No problemo. My only remaining vice is caffeine, but I do enjoy it. And I don’t mind getting a contact high either.

  23. I’m good.

    You know what.

    McCain has surrounded himself with tough, substantive, strong-willed women – Cindy, his daughter, Sarah. I think he is open to a woman’s point of view and will proceed to work for the good of all of us.

    He has assigned her significant duties. I still say he will have Hillary fix Health Care.

    He is going to get the War taken care of and secure our safety. Additionally, I think he will use Bill to fix our reputation in the world.

    I’m happy. I will be very happy to have the McCain/Palin people in the White House.

    YeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Bring it On!


  24. Watching Greta and there is an issue with Palin using her personal email for state business. A couple of commentators, including Allred who we now know drank the Kool Aid, is trying to make a big deal about it. Apparently, the emails were innocuous. They are dying to find something to bring her down.

  25. de Rothschild is coming up on Greta on FOX

  26. PhlamingoPhred: Have you called or looked into CMS?

    They may be able to help find a plan that has her doctors.

    I know in Florida they have SHINE which is http://www.floridashine.org/ – check them out and see if they have an Illinois chapter that can help her find the one which is right for her budget & healthcare needs.

  27. bboomer, I am always amazed at the incredibly cruel and horrible things that adults can say to kids. I saw it when I was teaching. I just don’t get it.

  28. Lynn de Rothschild on Greta – she’s a puma. Go girl – anti-Nancy!

  29. StillforHill: I’m bracing myself for another 4 years of a Republican administration. I’ve been an independent contractor for a few years now and it’s not getting better out here in FL.

    Immigrants, new snowbirds and longtime FL residents are flocking north and west because an average of 8-10% of total FL employers are actively hiring. Construction jobs & real estate work is plummeting visciously. Many acquaintances that are real estate agents and brokers are suffering immensely from the drop of buys/rentals here. This is catastrophic.

  30. I am more and more a Lou Dobbs, independent. He leadth me ………..etc.

  31. SM – thanks for the suggestion. She actually moved up to IL from FL last year and lost her insurance then for no coverage, then waited until December to pick out a new plan. I tried to tell her not to choose one of those Fee for Service plans because I had read that they’re pretty treacherous, but it’s become clearer as the year has progressed that I need to not give her so much independence and start managing some of her affairs.

    We got her treated at the hospital, which they had told me to do if we couldn’t find a doctor. And I called our Republican congressman’s office for help. I’m not sure of the final outcome yet, but she has some much needed medication so we may be ok until open enrollment in a couple of months.

    It’s just very frustrating that those plans can even be legal for seniors.

    Carol – don’t keep those feeling bottled up! You’re going to hurt yourself. 🙂

  32. Hey everyone, here is a revealing youtube video, please watch and pass on, we need to increase the viewership of this.

  33. Still4Hill,

    That was an AWESOME interview On The Record.

    I agree with what Lynn said! 100%

    She nailed it!

    I think she speaks for many Americans that suppored Hillary Clinton and now see that John McCain is a much better choice for POTUS and will be a much stronger leader for America than will Obama.

    Someone please put the video of her interview with Greta on YouTube.

    It was just a few minutes. But it said it all!

    Everyone in America should see it!!

    Awesome that she is ging on the campaign trail for McCain-Palin!

    This is encouraging!

    She is standing up for America!

    I am happy to join her!

    PUMA all the way!!

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  34. sm – That’s too bad. It’s such a beautiful state, but i have always heard that it is also very competitive. Unfortunately, as we have all seen more than once, poor FLA gets disenfranchised on a regular basis to boot.

    Pretty state gets abused. Sort of a metaphor for what happened to Hillary too.

  35. I don’t mean to complain but I wish Rothschild had been as eloquently outspoken during the primaries as she was tonight on Greta. That said, I am applying for the position of carrying her luggage as she campaigns for McCain/Palin! Strong woman!

    Clinton/Rothschild 2012!

  36. Don’t miss Sarah Palin’s interview with Hannity on FOX tonight and tomorrow. Great interview!

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  37. If anyone is good on the computer PLEASE help me find out
    Natasha (Sasha) Obama’s, D.O.B..
    Just like her dad something as simple as this is a mystery.
    Obama’s local paper The Hyde Park Herald is archived
    either @:
    Chicago Historical Society
    Herald Washington Library
    There must be a birth announcement or something, late August / early September 2001??

  38. How about a Canadian Club with 7up.

    Mountain Sage

  39. IM -Yes -totally awesome. She was concise. Bullet-speak but in a very pleasant way. Now I am SURE that Bill and Hillary are secretly also PUMAs. Did anybody see Hillary address that Latina Group on 9/10?
    She seems to follow the same pattern every time she talks. Mentions “the ticket” not “Obama for president”. But she stays on issues – not people.

    She does this superbly.

  40. RD & Sheri – this one is for you.

    McCain mocked Barbra


  41. Just wanted to shout out to Sister SM!!! Congratulations again on your new job, and it’s good to see you posting again!


  42. yeah YEAH SM…..we know how talented you are, best of luck!!!!!!!!

  43. Rothschild said, in part, “rid ourselves of the extremes of the left and the extremes of the right! AHO! Change I can believe in!

  44. Still4Hill – that kitties eyes are greeeeeeeeennnnnn!

    I’m scared!

  45. I was just about to mention the McCain Babs tribute!

    Where did that come from and can we get more?

  46. I dont know what kind of democrat I am anymore…..after reading so many of the hate filled comments frmo them every where ..but especialy the ones directed at Sarah Palin … I think the current democrats are the demomisogynists party . they keep their women where they want them …and saying what they tell them to say … viciously attack any other female They lhave Campbell Brown with her incredible horrible nasal whine , Rachel Maddow as Keith Olbermans personal mini-me, Nacny Pelosi as smarmer general I could go on but i am tired and I have to work in the AM ..
    I am a Puma , for the reform of the democratic party , to get it out of the hands of the thugs …and I will absolutely be voting for Johnny Mac and Sarah …

  47. That’s Patrick the Puma – for some reason his eyes photograph differently than the other cats’. I think he has some vision issues – depth perception.

  48. sod – soooooo sorry.

  49. Gary, how’s work been going lately? I know you made a great decision on how to handle that problem a couple weeks ago, but I’m still sending good thoughts your way!

  50. SOD So sorry to hear that! Condolences.

  51. SOD – So sorry for all the loss…get some rest!

  52. BB—–congrats. My last drink was in 1984. Seems not so long ago.

  53. {{SOD}}}

  54. SOD-That is so sad, and after what you told us earlier. Take care of yourself.

  55. I am an FDR Democrat who wants to bring democracy back to the Democratic Party, and to see the 30% Solution implemented in my lifetime.

    That’s what matters to me.


  56. Not to worry you, but I just read about a baby that a friend correctly diagnosed with an eye tumor because of the way the eye looked white in a photo. Does it just look that way on the internet or is it in the actual photo also?

  57. MadamaB & Gary: LOVE YOU TOO! I may not have as much time as I had, but I’ll try to be on a couple of times a week – I haven’t even had time to comment on your great posts. Know that my heart’s here but the brain has to be somewhere else., until I adjust timewise.

  58. that McCain thing is too bizarre. I can’t believe he actually did that. That guy has a real sense of humor.

  59. SOD: HUGS. Wow. too sad indeed.

  60. Lady de Rothschild was awesome on Greta.

    She specifically referred to the possibility of the Pelosi/Dean/Obama coalition controlling all of Washington, and how that bothered her. (She looked like the prospect of that was DEEPLY troubling.)

    That comment will fly over the heads of many on all but the most superficial level, but PUMAS and others know EXACTLY what she was saying. She was saying EFF YOU to their little coup.

    Lynn has declared war on the takeover of the DNC by the Children of the Corn, my friends. I’ll bet Nasty Nancy is LIVID.

  61. How many americans havent used their work email for something personal. It is not a crime. It’s like picking up a phone and making a local call. Obviously, it would depend to what extreme you take it, but just emailing your kids and telling them to hold dinner isn’t really a problem

  62. Carol – I saw that story about the baby on the Today show. His eyes reflect the light that way, but I also have a cat with one blind eye, and one with an eye that’s atrophied and another with a swollen globe – she can see some things, so I didn’t have the one seeing eye removed.

    They’re all rescues.

  63. Hi Ben! I actually loved the McCain/Streisand video. He was actually funny as hell! I have to admit, Repugs are bring O’s house down with the mocking strategy. Moses, now Streisand.

  64. Rico,I’ll have sex on the beach.

  65. Carol – tell Ed to mow the lawn while he’s trimming them trees!

  66. That’s an old video of McCain, though, isn’t it?

  67. Ben – my emails go both ways. Sometimes personal ones on the work email and sometimes, if a colleague sends me a work email to a personal account I reply from that account. If I have time, I forward work emails to the work account and then answer, but not always. I do it mostly to keep a record in one account of the emails and responses.

    It’s seilly to get all picky and choosy about it. Really reeks of the dirty tricks in the 70’s to me.

  68. Barbra Streisand and I share the same birthday. How ’bout them apples.

  69. swansprit, remember that Campbell Brown is married to Dan Senor, big time Bush the Lesser toady. She is a conservative Republican.

  70. He did look much younger, but who cares? It’s totally relevant!

  71. Those trees being trimmed are my Christmas trees that are still standing, but the ornaments are off.

    Still4Hill – you’re a good soul.

  72. And it’s totally funny.

  73. Someone at the top the thread mentioned the strong women in McCain’s life. I heard him tell a funny story on his mother, who is something like 89 years old, can’t remember exactly. She went to Europe this spring. The car rental agency refused to rent her a car, so she up and bought a car and drove all over Europe.

    I know politicians use family stories to humanize themselves, but she comes across as one tough lady, and he seems genuinely close to her.

  74. is it true that as well as personal family pics, SP’s daughter’s and husband’s cell #s were published?

    SweetSue, that shooter brings back memories!

  75. wmcb: Lynn has declared war on the takeover of the DNC by the Children of the Corn
    HAHAHA – What did you see? I saw the corn.

  76. Wow! I love he he mocks Stresiand WITHOUT resorting to anything sexist.

    You go, John! ROFLMAO!

  77. How well will hollywood love BO when he finally fucks this up?

    I can hardly wait.

  78. is there a video for Palin’s interview
    anybody knows where to find it

  79. I’ll bet it does, frostback. Rico, make it sex on the beach for two–now.

  80. i find it a bit disturbing that the democratic party is happy that the economy is in the tank because that gives them an advantage in the elections

  81. Hollywood will make a movie about BO. The PUMAs will be painted as trailer trash smoking corncob pipes.

  82. Well, this is rather interesting, if true. Did Soros use MoveOn to drive stock prices down so he could cash in on Haliburton?


    1. George Soro and Associates Give $6.2 million to MoveOn over a 6 month period. (September 2003)
    (Reference: discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6201)

    2. MoveOn.org Pac went after Halliburton for making billions during the Iraq War. Moveon.org overstated their case in ads. (2004)
    (Reference: factcheck.org/anti-bush_ad_overstates_case_against_halliburton.html

    3. MoveOn.org attacks motivated the left to politically attack Halliburton. (2004)
    (Reference theleftcoaster.com/archives/002137.php)

    4. Halilibrton’s stock drops 70 cents in 2006.

    5. According to papers filed with the SEC, in the fourth quarter of 2006, Soros purchased nearly 2 million shares of Halliburton. This is nearly $62 million, or 2% of his total portfolio, in Halliburton, the major government contractor criticized by his own Open Society Institute and the group he funds, MoveOn.org.

    (Reference: theneweditor.com/index.php?/archives/5332-George-Soros-Buys-Halliburton-Stock.html)

    6. Soro and MoveOn.org support Obama. According to the NYT, Sorro and his family members have given Obama’s campaign $60,000. MoveOn.org is one of Obama’s biggest contributors, giving $347,463.

    (Reference: .nytimes.com/2007/04/03/us/politics/03obama.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1


  83. parentofed – that’s me. And, I think his mother is 94???

    The only thing about his mother, I think she is pretty selfish. I remember her interview where she disclosed “the subject never came up” regarding his 5.5 years in captivity.

    I think that is very strange.

  84. My gracious and wonderful Conflucians, I must get some rest. Love you all & drink all you like!

  85. i heard McCain’s mom is 96.

  86. Jonas, that’s always been the democrat game. Frankly, it goes back to the “economy stupid.” However, Bill had a way of talking about it without saying he thought it was helping his campaign.

  87. Susan Estrich on Greta – talking about Obama’s huge payroll burning $$$$$$$.

    What kinda operation…???? I don’t think I have ever seen anything like his campaign – and I’m 63.

  88. Nite, sm. Good luck with your new job- Knock’em dead.

  89. Lakota —

    I know…it’s like we’re living in some alternative universe.

  90. I am a “default Democrat,” which means that I am officially unaffiliated, but always vote Democrat. Not this time around. How’s that for “change”?

    Some thoughts:
    – 8 years of Bush did not ban abortion.
    – Palin did not ban abortion in Alaska.
    – Gay marriage became legal under Romney in MA and Schwarzenegger in CA, both Republicans.
    – Palin on homosexuality: “I’m not one to judge.”

    Don’t let the DNC elites scare you with the abortion bogeyman. Don’t let them tell you that you have no other choice if you are LGBT. We always have a choice.

    McCain/Palin 2008
    Clinton 2012

  91. Inspirational Quote for Tonight:

    “Words cannot describe the indignation a proud woman feels for her sex in disfranchisement.” — Elizabeth Cady Stanton

  92. I wish I could stay and party with y’all – but I have to turn in as well. Take advantage of that open bar!

  93. Carol, I really don’t a thing about his mother, except I love that story about Europe. Wouldn’t be surprised about the selfish. I’ve seen lists of traits common to older people and that list usually includes feisty, independent, stubborn; nice and unselfish doesn’t seem to cut it when it comes to living a long life.

    Worries me, being the way I am………..heh

  94. Gary, Thanks. I see teaching as a really big responsibility. Even college students are incredibly open and vulnerable. They really need to be validated, not criticized.

  95. kc, Thanks for the kind words and good for you! I don’t miss it one bit actually. I like being present in the world.

  96. SOD,

    I’m so sorry. Please take care of yourself and your daughter. She must be really hurting right now.

  97. I saw earlier today that my second favorite woman, after Hillary, in the world, has gone over to the dark side….Jodi Foster! Crying now!

  98. Sorry – I wanted to leave you with this – please insert your own southern accent:

    Nighty night
    Don’t let the bedbugs bite
    And if they do, hit ’em with a shoe
    And say I don’t want to sleep with you
    Credit – Shotgun Red

    Now I’m out.

  99. I’m a PA voter…..things could go either way here……

  100. NIte for awhile – I want to go listen to Matt’s 2cts.
    Love to all PUMAs!

  101. Carol, on September 17th, 2008 at 10:55 pm Said:
    parentofed – that’s me. And, I think his mother is 94???

    The only thing about his mother, I think she is pretty selfish. I remember her interview where she disclosed “the subject never came up” regarding his 5.5 years in captivity.

    I think that is very strange

    I know it sounds strange but I don’t think it really is. There are a lot of soldiers who do not want to bring back the filth from the war to their home life. They only talk about stuff like that with other soldiers. Their home life and the people who populate it are their refuge.

  102. I couldn’t find Matt’s show on blogtalkradio.com. Anyone have a link?

  103. I just found a web site that said Sasha was born on June 7, 2001.

  104. Battlecat – You know what I’m thinking?

    The Republicans know how to smear people without sounding crazy. (see: The SwiftBoat operation)

    The Obamabot bloggers all sound crazy, hateful and hysterical, because they are saying the most ridiculous things about Sarah Palin. And none of them are true.

    The thing is, the traditional Democratic platform is very popular, if the GD Democrats would just allow the candidate who lives those beliefs to become the nominee. The very fact of Hillary’s principled adherence to the Democratic platform would have swept her into the White House with very little effort. And she could have run a clean, issues-based campaign, which the American people would have been very grateful for this year. (Who knows what the Repubs would have done, but it wouldn’t have mattered. She would always bring it back to issues.)

    The Democrats have completely blown it. AGAIN.


  105. Can I ask a “dumb” question. I just received this note from a RNC field rep here: “Let’s make this non-event a Republican success. I will also supply buttons to those that bring the best signs. So be creative (but keep it nice.) See you all here tomorrow!”

    We are always asked to “keep it nice,” “be polite,” “nothing offensive,” etc. and if they feel it’s even slightly offensive, it’s taken away, even at a protest rally. People ask me why do we have to be nice when the Ds can be as nasty as they want?

    Other than the “higher standard” answer, I really have no response. All of you are so kind to each other, to me even, polite & courteous. Does the DNC take away signs if they feel they’re too mean, too demeaning, too offensive? I’ve seen some pretty offensive signs directed at us, but I don’t know if they’re DNC related, or MoveOn related.

    Have any of you attended a protest rally where you were asked to keep it “nice”?

    Some of our younger members are really PO’d that they can’t say what they really want to say at these protest rallies.

  106. Trump came out tonight and endorsed McCain as well. It’s on politico.


  107. Everytime I have said something about Rachel Maddow on here, I have prefaced it with, “I really want to like her.” Officially tonight, I am ending “really wanting to like her.”

    I was channeling surfing and heard her repeat the Palin smear “while Mayor women had to pay for rape kits and reimburse expenses for investigation.” She went on to say that there were other stories that were just too sordid for television. She ignores the debunking of these smears by saying that they were said by someone else. Obviously, she subscribes to the Andrea Mitchell School of BZerojournalism.

    Why doesn’t MessNBC just paint the set orange and have a large screen with the Cheeto blogs running continuously?

  108. McCain’s mom is 96.

    Re: Lynn has declared war on the takeover of the DNC by the Children of the Corn, my friends. I’ll bet Nasty Nancy is LIVID.

    Don’t forget that Nancy’s BFF –what’s her name, I am tired and can’t think of it…but it’s another top HRC fundraiser who has come out strongly against BO and his arrogance. Anyway, she was Nancy’s best friend and biggest fundraiser, and they don’t speak anymore. When (not if) BO loses, Nancy is going to need lots of new friends. Don’t call me.

    Re: the economy. On the FOX ticker tape it said, “OBAMA PROMISES TO MAKE ECONOMY HIS TOP PRIORITY AS PRESIDENT.” He is a relentless opportunist. Since when has the economy been his main agenda?

  109. Madamab: Agreed. Hillary would have shut it down completely and I would have crossed party lines to vote for her.

  110. Okay, I won’t say it was the meds, but I found myself agreeing with Karl Rove for God’s sake! Actually, Sarah acquitted herself quite well. She seems to have a handle on energy which is more than I can say for McCain.

    I switched over to Larry King during commercials and almost through my shoe at the tv when Stephanie Miller and Paul Begala were on. What is wrong with these people? So condescending and so trite!

    Waited up for Greta and saw Lynn. She did fine. Now I am awake again. Got to say, when I find myself looking to the Repubs in agreement I get scared!

  111. The Trump endorsement is good, because it gives McCain more economic credibility (even though Trump is another blowhard).

  112. Pat, that’s why I never watch CNN. Literally. Between the BO salivating and the vacant pretty boy/girl talking heads, I can’t take it.

  113. i was surfing last night and caught Rachel Maddow digging for dirt with her tel. guest, troopergate co-star Monegan. i couldn’t be more disappointed in her.

  114. Pat,

    Paul Begala was awful! He’s completely lost his sense of humor. I guess that’s what happens when you sell out and pretend to support someone you don’t really like. I can’t believe I actually used to love Stephanie Miller. Ugh!

  115. Prolix: it’s really disturbing to see the COMPLETE lack of accountability in the guise of journalism. They can basically say anything they want and there are no consequences if it’s not sourced or factual. Often, we know more on this blog than these people being paid for their opinions. It’s obvious they either don’t do any research or they just lie–or both.

  116. fif: These talking heads have lost all credibility. Objectivity has left the building along with Elvis. They allow all manner of smears and smirks to be said of Palin yet overlook Mr. No Nothing’s background as it if were sacrosanct. Drives me nuts! If they want to make fun, at least make fun of the entire group. To single out one as with Palin just drives me further away. As it is, I am about over the horizon.

  117. John McCain’s mother was 6 years old when women were finally given the right to vote. She has seen things not a single one of us, I pray, will ever see where the treatment of women are concerned.

    She was raised to not question her role as a mother and wife, and not question our government. She was a strong woman, but I believe she also felt the men in her life were serving a greater cause and simply could not relate to what they were enduring.

  118. Imagine this:

    “On the biggest financial issue of the day, Barack Obama would not say if he supported or opposed the government-backed rescue of insurance giant AIG.” — Fox News’ Major Garrett

    Fox News’ “Special Report”
    September 17, 2008

    Fox News’ Brit Hume: “The Democrat is not coming down one way or another on the AIG rescue. Correspondent Major Garrett explains why.”

    Fox News’ Major Garrett: “On the biggest financial issue of the day, Barack Obama would not say if he supported or opposed the government-backed rescue of insurance giant AIG.”

    Barack Obama: “We don’t know all the details of the arrangement with AIG and the Federal Reserve must ensure that plans protect the families that count on insurance.”

    Garrett: “Obama also wants taxpayers protected but executives and shareholders exposed but on the central question to intervene or not, Obama sidestepped. Advisers said lack of details forced caution. The larger political truth: advisors believe anxiety alone is enough to lift Obama in the polls. That is why on the trail, Obama doesn’t talk about specifics of the moment but the nation’s overall direction.”

    Watch The Fox News Report”

  119. Trump wanted Hillary!
    “Pat J.”
    I couldn’t agree more!
    I was so glad the Republican brought up the “NOT IN THE US SENATE @ THE TIME THING”!!
    Obama was important ONLY IN HIS OWN MIND!!
    “We are really living in an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE”!

  120. Lakota – that’s beautiful!

  121. I used to love Paul Begala and have his books co authored with Carville. He looks almost clownish lately. What happened to these people? If it is true that he his problem may be in the fact that his support of Obama is thin then he should just stay home. Right now I have little respect for him sad to say. And Stephanie Miller is another huge disappointment. She sounds and acts like a total moron.

  122. Speaking of $$, Obama plans to dump a load on Florida:

    $40 million for Florida
    Posted by Jay Newton-Small | Comments (29) | Permalink | Trackbacks (0) | Email This
    The Obama folks have a new video out today with David Plouffe asking for money not just to defend against “McCain’s latest lies” but to fund their ground game. In the video Plouffe “opens up the hood a little bit” and tells supporters that they’re budgeting a whopping $39,300,000 for the state of Florida alone – just one of the 17 swing states they’re focusing on.
    Plouffe justifies the expenditure like this:
    This was on Swampland (Time blog) and went on to say there are many untapped AA’s to register and get to the polls.

  123. Republican Woman: that’s weird. Maybe they don’t want it to reflect negatively on McCain. You could just make the sign(s) you want, but risk that they might not be “allowed.” What has happened to free speech in this country? It’s all image manipulation. What exactly is the event?

  124. Carol, on September 17th, 2008 at 10:55 pm Said:
    parentofed – that’s me. And, I think his mother is 94???The only thing about his mother, I think she is pretty selfish. I remember her interview where she disclosed “the subject never came up” regarding his 5.5 years in captivity.
    I think that is very strange

    Carol. it’s called being a WASP with a stiff upper lip. Have you ever seen Mary Tyler Moore in “Ordinary People?”
    It’s not a style that I admire but it’s a way of coping.

  125. Jmac: that doesn’t sound right. How can they invest $40 million in FL alone, when they only have approx. $80 million to spend right now? With McCain gaining in many swing states and ahead in states that BO claimed he could flip, I don’t see how they could spend that much in one state.

  126. And, do remember that George and Barbara Bush went golfing the day after their little daughter died.

  127. Still4Hill – I read weeks ago that Obama’s paid staff is five times larger than Bush’s staff in 2000 at this point in the campaign.

    Its not just staff. They have hundreds of offices throughout the country. They pay office rent, security deposits, utilities (including land lines), cell phones, laptops for some staff, telephone equipment and rental cars. At some offices in larger cities the campaign will be paying for staff parking. They ship at least one (usually more) campaign computers (PC) and printer to every office. Every office rents office furniture. They run through large amounts of office supplies. Campaign posters and other materials must be shipped to every office. Large banners or signs are made for the exterior of every office. Some staff members will stay in private homes for free but some staff will be housed in motels.

    It goes on and on and often there is a lot of waste.

  128. When you have reached the age of 96, can still drive a car, travel at will, and still have your faculties, you have earned the right to say and do anything you wish. She is a strong lady. And Cindy has become my favorite of them all.

  129. SweetSue: good point about Mac’s mother. I read his biography, and she was a very devoted Navy wife. They traveled a lot, and she was extremely strong and adaptive, supporting her husband’s loyalty to the service, and helping her kids in each new environment. JM speaks very admiringly of his mother, and they seem to be quite close. Don’t forget: she is 96. Parents and kids, especially in the military, had a different manner of relating way back then. You weren’t “best buds” like Boomer parents. More formal.

  130. SweetSue: People do grieve in their own way. And when George H.W. Bush had those letters published it portrayed a man who was rent apart by that little girl’s death. They probably had to get away from people who meant well but were overwhelming. It can be suffocating.

  131. SweetSue – bizarrio!!!!!!!!

    Didn’t know about Bush.

    People cope with death in their own way.

  132. Pat: did you hear that Cindy slapped down The View women today? She was p*ssed about how they were treated on the show. This woman came from a working class family and is now a CEO multi-millionaire who camps out when she is in foreign countries helping refugees.

    Again: look at how people do or don’t walk the walk. That’s what I trust. BO only talks and struts.

  133. I am another Hillary supporter who will be voting McCain/Palin. Never Obama!! I know that you propose voting Democrat on the down ticket candidates but I will be voting a straight Republican ticket-my reason is that Obama, Pelosi, Axelrod, Soros, and company are so sleazy and corrupt that I feel that they will stop at NOTHING to make sure that this election goes in Obama’s favor and the last thing I want is for Obama to be President and have a Democratic majority in both branches of Congress. My hope is that , for whoever is President, that one branch of Congress is led by one Party and the other branch by the other Party . I know that we feel that Obama doesn’t have a chance of winning, but I’m not going to gamble that he won’t win-and if he does, then I want to make sure there are enough Repubs in Congress to not allow Obama to get away with EVERYTHING!

  134. Fif, I try and draw the distinction between commentary and journalism — but I also tried to jump off a barn with an umbrella when I was a boy. That explains a lot about me, but I digress…

    I am so tired of the network execs trying to make the leap between journalism and commentary with their equalivalent of an umbrella. Last time I looked commentary didn’t mean out and out advocacy — it meant trying to at least appear somewhat balanced and detached. The only thing that isn’t detached in these folks are their brain stems which control their ability to breathe and spew.

  135. Yes, but to say “it never came up” is a little strange. Don’t ya think in general conversation one might say to their long lost son, “hey, how ya been? What’s up?”

  136. fif: And Cindy puts her money where her mouth is. She travels to those countries and attempts to help. The fact that she has been doing this for years really impressed me. She is in a postion to write a nice check if need be but she goes where she is needed. I like and admire her for that. Says a great deal about her as a person.

  137. I hear you, ladies, but it’s not a style that I admire. I think it creates a lot of stunted. love starved children.
    Witness, George W. Bush.
    Having said that, I don’t trash a sister.

  138. The larger political truth: advisors believe anxiety alone is enough to lift Obama in the polls. That is why on the trail, Obama doesn’t talk about specifics of the moment but the nation’s overall direction.”

    So, on AIG, BO votes “present?” What else is new? HOW is this guy supposed to function as president?

    To invade or not to invade? Uhh…ummmm…uh….let me talk to my advisors, and then I need “lots of time to think about it,” and then I’ll take both sides of the issue, and get back to you…maybe.

  139. Prolix – with those “cheeks” on your gravatar I would have thought you could have made that umbrella thing “fly”!

  140. When I was young I was a far-left, use-the-government-to-fix-everything Democrat. I wasn’t a Clinton fan and would have fallen for Obama. I had a lot of faith that someone (someone else) could fix “the system” if it weren’t for the evil right-wing obstructing progress.

    Over the years, seeing both how work gets done and how it doesn’t get done, I’ve come to see that things get done a lot more by people rolling up their sleeves than by waiting for a government check. I now look back fondly on the 19-page democratic platform of 1992, even though I never voted for Bill Clinton (I was in the DSA/Nation/Nader zone at the time). I think people accuse Bill Clinton of having pushed for a new third way as an election strategy, a way to win, but now I believe it was much deeper than that: a governing strategy.

    Big institutions have entropy, they lack responsiveness. Creating a government program for absolutely everything *will* be inefficient and expensive – on this point (when they actually meant it) conservatives were right. Of course lately so-called conservatives haven’t governed that way – but to their credit, McCain and Palin both have.

    So any way I still consider myself “progressive” but in the Blue Dog / DLC / Clinton/Gore mode, which Hillary represented this year (read her “American Dream Initiative” for example). Less is more if you have a clear agenda with government; I think a will to create huge bureaucracy is an attempt to hide lack of real vision and prop up your own delusions of self-importance.

    So can I still be a Democrat down-ticket? Locally in my state the Obamabots have control of leadership as well. Now we’ve been given a 57-page platform that’s nothing if not Johnson/Carter/Mondale redux – huge government projects, hardly any mention of a strategy to encourage private enterprise (it’s all -blaming- and -correcting- private enterprise), no trace of the Clinton/Gore small government, pro-business philosophy.

    This ideological movement (back 30+ years) in the Democratic Party is troubling and it makes me reconsider voting for down-ticket dems who are happy with the platform, lest they get a majority and give President Obama all the sprawling Napoleonic bureaucracy imaginable – which I really believe is the -worst- thing that could happen to our economy right now. That’s my dilemma. I’m planning to stay independent, and skeptical, indefinitely.

  141. What a day…I missed the live talk and now everyone is off to bed early. Yup, it was a hard day filled with ‘evil’ hackers but good news of Lynn Forester de Rothschild standing her ground. Yup, she stood firm and tall on May 31st and we won’t forget that.

    Nite all…

  142. SweetSue: We see him differently. I think he is a spoiled, over praised, overindulged, excuses made for, insufferable pain in the ass. I doubt anyone ever said no to him. He was raised to think of himself as something and someone special. He may be a product of parents who “overloved” him if that is possible.

  143. Pat: I also think it is admirable that she does not underwrite JM’s campaign. When he was carrying his own bags and flying commercial, of course she could have bought him his own jet. What does that say about living your principles? Meanwhile, Obama uses favors from a convicted felon to buy his mansion and his wife gets a $300K salary at the hospital using his connections.

  144. Carol, as I am married to a military man who spent a (tiny – just a couple of hours) amount of time in a foreign country naked in the snow being beaten with rifle butts, I can attest to the fact that he NEVER discusses it. Ever. Period.

    And we talk about everything. He is not in general a closed off person AT ALL with me, but I know him well enough to know that this is not something he wishes to discuss. It’s a boundary that I respect.

  145. If you want to have a hoot and a holler on a Saturday night, I’d take McCain’s mother, Sandra Day O’Connor and Cindy out for a night on the town. Put a few shooters in those ladies and you would probably end up paying the blackmail for the pictures.

  146. Prolix: Thinking of becoming a papparazzi?

  147. fif – if we need to get involved in the Georgia/Russia conflict – BO will send our soldiers in to fight on both sides.

    GOD please help us all!

    McCain/Palin 2009

  148. jmac,
    If that’s the strategy then they’ve already lost the election. If registering AA’s is all they have to vote for them then it’s not good news.

    I have this argument with his supporters all the time. They keep telling me that Obama’s going to register X no. of voters and get them to the polls to make up for the voters Kerry needed in 2004. Here’s the flaw in that plan: Obama is losing larger number of dems and indies that he’s going to have to make up. He’s not going to have the base of support that Kerry had.

    Putting 39 million into FL says that it’s their only hope to win the election. You don’t dump 1/2 or more of your money into a state unless it’s the only chance you have.

  149. Carol, I’m CarrotTop doing the King Tut. These gravitars seem somewhat intuitive.

  150. I’m going to bed now. Too much sadness for one night.

  151. Pat, I would be paying the blackmail not taking the pics.

  152. WMCB: And as a mother, I don’t know if I would be up to knowing all that they had done to my child in captivity. I think it would have driven me insane.

  153. Prolix: I should have known. A night of lampshades and high kicks.

  154. fif – I don’t know how he can spend that much ($40 million on Florida) but here’s the link to the article:


  155. Jmac, he’s giving everyone in FL an orange tree and a ride on Space Mountain in honor of his favorite blog.

  156. Polls sucked today. 😦

    Obama up 8 in NM? NM? SUSA is usually good but 8? Really?

    O up 5 and 6 nationally via CBS? The CNN/Time polls all show a shift towards O.

    I don’t watch much tv news… what has happened? I can’t believe people actually are buying the media spin that the Dems would be any better with this economy.

    I’m going to watch the late edition of Palin and see how she did. Cr@ppy, cr@ppy polls.

  157. Prolix, he is going to cover the entire state a foot deep in Cheetos. Drop them from planes.

  158. Pat, I bet McCain’s mom wouldn’t be a stranger to the can-can, bet she did-did in her day.

  159. Excellent comment Pan M. I feel the same way. This election, and the reckless hypocrisy of the “Left” has caused me to reevaluate my idea of myself as a “liberal.” I am obviously much more of a centrist, like my preferred candidate. I do think we need to have a safety net of some sort for people that are genuinely struggling. I worked with abused and neglected kids (age 6-15), and they were born into really violent and dysfunctional environments. They do not have the most basic skills (eg: cleanliness) that we take for granted, and suffer from a range of emotional and psychological problems. Flippantly expecting them to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” is not only incredibly unrealistic, it’s cruel. Studies have shown that if they do not receive the help they need, they will eventually become a problem for society. I do not believe in bleeding heart waste, but we are a community. Where can I get her “American Dream Initiative?”

    More concisely: It takes a village. 🙂

  160. Karen: Neither candidate has broken 50 yet. They just go up and down, a point gained, one lost. The debates will be the tie breaker overall. Watching them up close and personal will be the deciding factor.

  161. wmcb: lol! I love you!

  162. karen smells like a troll to me. weird first comment….

  163. Prolix: I am counting on you to teach her a step or two. And I would not give this job to just anybody!

  164. Look (I just took that phrase from Obama), obviously the Democratic Party is “not the party any of us thought it was” (I just took that phraseology from Obama.)

    Time to move on.

    Punishment, Retribution and Reform 2008


  165. Obama spending that much money in Florida suggests it is an absolute must win and they are desperate. This action suggests that Obama has some internal polling telling them they are going to lose some states that the public polls and the media currently have in the Obama column.

    I love the smell of desperation mixed with orange blossoms in the morning.

  166. He outspent Hillary and I think in some cases it hurt him – his ads are not that appealing.

  167. gary: You are better than I on this front.

  168. Karen, I bet Steve Schultz has his little elves working late tonight to put an ad on the air about BZero in three years getting the second most contributions as any politican from 1988 to present from his friend Fannie.

  169. “I don’t know how he can spend that much ($40 million on Florida) but here’s the link to the article…”

    It’s an uphill battle purchasing public office these days.

  170. They said he has outspent McCain 10 to 1 in Virginia and McCain just keeps on moving up in the polls.

    I call it Obama Fatique as in I hate his fucking guts.

    But, that’s just me.

  171. yeah, notice “she’s” not around anymore…just dropped a little turd and left

  172. Gary, you and the Force are one.

  173. Many war veterans do not talk about battles or being in captivity. It is one of those forbidden subjects, and something most of them would like to forget. Many have PTSD, and talking about battle or being a POW can exacerbate symptoms, so they stay away from the topic.

  174. This primary feels a lot like company who has overstayed their welcome. Or a long car ride with no end in sight. Is it over yet?

  175. I am not bothered by these new polls. I have been watching elections for toooo long, and don’t freak out over every up and down. I expected a slowing of McCain this far out from the convention. He still has the momentum, and is playing his hand with perfect timing.

    Dems crack me up, because they are always so impatient and reactionary – whereas the Repubs have timing down to an art. I was always railing at the Dems in years past for being so stupid, shooting their wad of ammunition at the wrong times vs the Repubs doing it exactly right to catch the “perfect wave” into election day. And now I am loving it!

  176. The 26th is the first debate with Obama and McCain. I wonder how well The One will perform without the aid of a telepromter. Not good. I remember in the Repub debates when McCain took on Romney and Huckabee and did not let them get a word in edgewise. Obama was always a “what she said” answer. This should be interesting.

  177. have you guys seen that greta’s blog got hacked. they’ve totally spammed the comments. weird stuff


  178. Prolix, on September 17th, 2008 at 11:28 pm Said:

    Great summary! These late night riffs are always the best. Except I have to go to bed…

    Night all. Let’s hope BO’s teleprompter breaks tomorrow.

  179. Pat – you will be driving them back to the Rezko mansion in Chicago, so start resting up. You only have 48 days to go.

  180. The national polls moving towards Obama aren’t really jibing with the state polls showing movement to McCain. *Shrug*

    I’m not planning on voting for McCain/Palin, but I put a pic of Palin up as my Facebook profile pic to see if I get any nasty responses. We’ll see.

  181. Is it that easy to hack into a site like that? My God, we are all subject to this in that event.

  182. Okay, I just heard Rachel’s stupid bull!

    This people are psycho.

  183. This is a very good summary of the financial crisis, central role played by Fannie and Freddie and the complicity of Obama, Dodd, other Dems in thrwarting reform:


  184. Pat Johnson, on September 17th, 2008 at 11:50 pm Said:
    The 26th is the first debate with Obama and McCain. I wonder how well The One will perform without the aid of a telepromter.
    Not sure where I read it, but someone wrote that the expectation for Obama in the debate is low since he’s a poor debater, so he will have a chance to do well by doing a little better.

    I just hope McCain brings his humor. We all know Obama doesn’t have one.

  185. So, I missed the last part of the radio thing when my sometime boyfriend from Back East called. [But at least I got to rant to him about the Democratic Underground autoeroticism thing.]

    We were talking about those training sessions the Dem. party has–he took one once and worked for Howard but never got the job he wanted afterwards–and I mentioned the O campaign keeps sending me notices about the one they’re having in town. Maybe I could just volunteer for downticket candidates, I mused. He advised me to sign up for it. “Don’t tell them you might vote for anyone else, he said, but I know you will.

    BO’s Democratic training sessions…advice?

  186. I am driving them back to Pottersville the morning of November 5th. They will be told to get in, buckle up, and don’t speak to the driver. I hate highway driving and do not wish to be distracted. But my radio will be on full blast with Rush and his like minded commentators all peeling apart the McCain/Palin win.

    And I won’t turn them off for the duration. One dirty look from MO and she gets dumped by the side of the road. My Rulz!

  187. When you take a teleprompter to a rodeo, you have a serious problem. Hell, it only takes 8 seconds to ride a bull, and BZero has been riding the bull for 19 months now.

  188. I just received this and what a joke! I didn’t want to vote for JM because he wanted amnesty for people here for only 6 months and now he’s being criticized that he’s against illegal immigration. Please!!!!

    ake Tapper

    ABC’s Political Punch Blog

    September 17, 2008 5:53 PM


    Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., has launched a new Spanish-language TV ad that seeks to paint Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., as anti-immigrant, even tying the Republican to his longtime conservative talk-radio nemesis Rush Limbaugh.

    As first reported by the Washington Post, Obama’s ad features a narrator saying: “They want us to forget the insults we’ve put up with…the intolerance…they made us feel marginalized in this country we love so much.”

    The screen then shows these two quotes from Limbaugh:

    “…stupid and unskilled Mexicans”

    —Rush Limbaugh

    “You shut your mouth or you get out!”

    —Rush Limbaugh

    The narrator then says, “John McCain and his Republican friends have two faces. One that says lies just to get our vote…and another, even worse, that continues the policies of George Bush that put special interests ahead of working families. John McCain…more of the same old Republican tricks.”

    There are some real factual problems with this ad, which is titled “Dos Caras,” or two faces.

    First of all, tying Sen. McCain – especially on the issue of immigration reform – to Limbaugh is unfair.

    Limbaugh opposed McCain on that issue. Vociferously. And in a larger sense, it’s unfair to link McCain to Limbaugh on a host of issues since Limbaugh, as any even occasional listener of his knows, doesn’t particularly care for McCain.

    Second, the quotes of Limbaugh’s are out of context.

    Railing against NAFTA in 1993, Limbaugh said, “If you are unskilled and uneducated, your job is going south. Skilled workers, educated people are going to do fine ’cause those are the kinds of jobs NAFTA is going to create. If we are going to start rewarding no skills and stupid people, I’m serious, let the unskilled jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do — let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work.”

    Not one of his most eloquent moments, to be sure, but his larger point was that NAFTA would mean that unskilled stupid Mexicans would be doing the jobs of unskilled stupid Americans.

    I’m not going to defend how he said it, but to act as if this was just a moment of Limbaugh slurring Mexicans is not accurate. Though again, certainly if people were offended I could understand why.

    The second quote is totally unfair. In 2006, Limbaugh was mocking Mexican law, and he wrote:

    “Everybody’s making immigration proposals these days. Let me add mine to the mix. Call it The Limbaugh Laws:

    “First: If you immigrate to our country, you have to speak the native language. You have to be a professional or an investor; no unskilled workers allowed. Also, there will be no special bilingual programs in the schools with the Limbaugh Laws. No special ballots for elections. No government business will be conducted in your language. Foreigners will not have the right to vote or hold political office.

    “If you’re in our country, you cannot be a burden to taxpayers. You are not entitled to welfare, food stamps, or other government goodies. You can come if you invest here: an amount equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage. If not, stay home. But if you want to buy land, it’ll be restricted. No waterfront, for instance. As a foreigner, you must relinquish individual rights to the property.

    “And another thing: You don’t have the right to protest. You’re allowed no demonstrations, no foreign flag waving, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our President or his policies. you’re a foreigner: shut your mouth or get out! And if you come here illegally, you’re going to jail.

    “You think the Limbaugh Laws are harsh? Well, every one of the laws I just mentioned are actual laws of Mexico today! That’ how the Mexican government handles immigrants to their country. Yet Mexicans come here illegally and protest in our streets!

    “How do you say ‘double standard’ in Spanish? How about: ‘No mas!'”

    But even if one is uninclined to see Limbaugh’s quotes as having been taken unfairly out of context, linking them to McCain makes as much sense as running a quote from Bill Maher and linking it to Obama.

    Asked for backup as to how Obama could link McCain to Limbaugh, the campaign provided this interview with McCain refusing to condemn the Minutemen from from the Kansas City Star:

    Q: ‘Are they a good thing? The Civil Defense Corps, do you think — do they help in the immigration fight, or not?’

    A: ‘I think they’re citizens who are entitled to being engaged in the process. They’re obviously very concerned about immigration.’

    Q: ‘Are they helpful?’

    A: ‘I think that’s up to others to judge. I don’t agree with them, but they certainly are exercising their legal rights as citizens.’

    Asked about the “lies” they’re accusing McCain of telling, the Obama campaign provided evidence that McCain in July 2008 told La Raza that he would have voted for the DREAM act, a bill that provides scholarships for the children of illegal immigrants, even thought he earlier in the campaign season said he would have voted against the bill.

    Let’s delver further into this.

    n the November 2007, Myrtle Beach Sun-News, McCain said of the DREAM Act, which he had cosponsored in the past, “I think it has certain virtues associated with it. And I think other things have virtues associated with it. But the message is they want the borders secured first.”

    The newspaper noted that McCain said he’d vote against a temporary worker program, even though he supports the idea. “I will vote against anything until we secure the borders,” he said. “There is no way we’re going to enact piecemeal immigration reform.”

    Before La Raza, McCain was asked by a young Latina if he’d support the DREAM Act, and he said, “Yes. Yes.”

    The full exchange, however, goes like this:

    QUESTIONER: Hi. I’m a part of One Dream 2009 and I am one of the 6 million who either have an undocumented parent or is undocumented and I wanted to know if you would support humanity all around the world and support our Dream Act that we are trying to pass.

    MCCAIN: Yes. Yes. Thank you. But I will also enforce the existing laws of a country. And a nation’s first requirement is the nation’s security, and that’s why we have to have our borders secured. But, we can have a way and a process of people obtaining citizenship in this country. And, we cannot penalize people who come here legally and people who wait legally. And so, that’s a fundamental principle on which we have to operate. Thank you.

    The Obama campaign also provided a number of conflicting comments McCain has made about offering greater funding for education programs in the No Child Left Behind act, then telling the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials in June that he “would fully fund those programs that have never been fully funded,” while not suggesting any greater funding for the bill when he’s talked about education in front of whiter audiences.

    That ignored the fact that McCain has suggested reallocating the way the $23 bill for NCLB is spent.

    McCain has changed his rhetoric and his emphasis when discussing immigration after almost losing the GOP presidential nomination because of it.

    He now says the borders must be secured before anything else happens. And in that, he’s opened himself up to charges of flip-flopping, though the Obama campaign is quoting him selectively and unfairly to make their points.

    The greater implication the ad makes, however, is that McCain is no friend to Latinos at all, beyond issues of funding the DREAM act or how NCLB money is distributed. By linking McCain to Limbaugh’s quotes, twisting Limbaugh’s quotes, and tying McCain to more extremist anti-immigration voices, the Obama campaign has crossed a line into misleading the viewers of its new TV ad. In Spanish, the word is erróneo.

  189. Pat – can we have video?

  190. Prolix – you win the line of the day with that one.

  191. Jmac: The last time we lowered expectations in the debates, Bush was given credit because he managed to stand up for a full hour. Because of this lowering of the bar, we got 8 years of Dagwood in the WH. Can only imagine what the low expectations they hope Obama will meet. He did not stutter as often as we predicted?

  192. Wow PJ, you’re braver than me! “Pat Johnson, on September 17th, 2008 at 11:56 pm Said:

    I am driving them back to Pottersville the morning of November 5th. They will be told to get in, buckle up, and don’t speak to the driver. I hate highway driving and do not wish to be distracted. But my radio will be on full blast with Rush and his like minded commentators all peeling apart the McCain/Palin win.”

    I won’t listen to Rush, or Ann Coulter, or any of the conservative right because they disgust even me. The fact that you can even sit through an hour of them is commendable. Seriously.

  193. Carol: Video for Ed. My final offer.

  194. Republican Woman: I can’t stand them either. I just think that payback is a bitch in this case. Can’t you just picture the pouts on the faces of these two riding along with no control over the dial? Priceless!

  195. i’m really disgusted with talkleft. they are all happy that the economy is in the tank beause that helps obama

    according to BTD the economy is a game changer, yeah thats what we need someone that needs the economy to crash to win.

    democrats must contain themselves a bit and not show so much happiness for for the economical crash

  196. BZero exceeding expectations in the debate: He slips up and tells the truth or even better, takes a stand on an issue.

  197. Oh Pat. I am sure before this is over, you will be even more desperate to get Eddy back.

  198. Prolix: Even better: he answers a question honestly and succinctly with “I don’t know”.

  199. Gary .. I don’t comment often, but I am not new. It’s forbidden to discuss polls in an open thread?

    I actually recognize several people here as I used to post over at TL under another name.

    So… no, I’m not new nor a ‘troll’

  200. Carol: Yes, but in what condition?

  201. From Politico:

    Shrum believes, however, that Obama needs to win the presidential debates in order to win the election. Three presidential debates are scheduled, with the first one set to take place Sept. 26 in Oxford, Miss.

    “Obama needs to come out of the debates, especially the first debate, very much in charge, stand up to McCain and communicate very clearly with people,” Shrum said.

    Debating never was Obama’s strongest suit during the primaries, but Shrum believes this could help Obama by lowering expectations. “I think Obama benefits from the perception he was middling in the primary debates and was professorial at Saddleback,” Shrum said. (Obama and McCain appeared separately at a forum on faith hosted by the Rev. Rick Warren at the Saddleback Church on Aug. 16 in Lake Forest, Calif.)

  202. There is a worldwide stock slide going on right now.

    Nancy and the Dems are starting to display their rightgeous indignation (it’s kind of like, “well, we don’t need to investigate because we are all in agreement that this is really bad”!)

    Let’s just all agree to disagree about who’s fault it is!

  203. karen, do you have a link to the NM poll? I couldn’t find it.

  204. and from what I could surmise, that was your very first comment here.

  205. McCain is no pushover in debates. Anyone who watched him go up against the other Repub candidates knows he can be feisty. He just needs to parade that feistiness out at the proper time so as not to give The One the edge of gaining sympathy. My way of thinking is that if you have not honed the debating skill down to a science after 19 months of non stop campaigning, you are not worth much to begin with. After a year and a half of doing nothing else but selling yourself, even I could do it!

  206. Pat – all I know is that Eddy has declared Trig and Piper will be accompanying him on all trips from now on. He can’t stand to leave them.

  207. whatever, if you’re not a troll, just ignore me….nite everyone!

  208. I use RCP and click on their ‘latest polls’ 09/18 was put up late…


  209. Jmac, at least Politico got an expert on low expectations to comment since there is no greater expert on low expectations than Bob Shrum.

  210. Eddy told me that he prefers to spend the day in the playpen just to get away from them.

  211. This is a great post on the economic crisis.


    My greatest nightmare: A Democratic Pelosi House; a Democratic Reid Senate; and Barack Obama Presidency.

    Now I am going to bed and I am going to pull the covers over my head and probably suck my thumb in the fetal position.

  212. It’s actually dawning on people that Obama could lose this. In case you missed it, this was from Donna B today:

    “He has had some moments where he seems unsure of his own voice,” Brazile said, “but I still think he can pull this off.”
    And if he doesn’t?
    “If he doesn’t, then Obama didn’t lose,” she said. “The country just wasn’t ready.”

  213. I don’t know. I see this 3 way custody thing getting really dirty.

  214. Here in NM CD-2 we have Richardson’s pick Harry Teague, oil drilling equipment business owner and pal of the Repuke, Steve Pearce, who is vacating the seat to run for Senate.

    A true progressive who go 40% of the vote with no money last time out was shoved out of the way by Richardson.

    I really don’t want to vote for this guy…

  215. Daily polls are just daily trends. I will be more interested in the ones done right up to November 4th. And then again, who knows. We saw too much discrepancies with the primary states more often than not.

  216. My background is pure Stevensonian (to use Anglachel’s term.) I am from Chicago, my father was an academic, my parents are from the Northeast and voted pure left-liberal (Eugene McCarthy, George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale etc).

    What disturbs me in that line of politics is the tendency to turn everything into a moral referendum, with the left casting itself in the role of shining hero, and to dismiss out-of-hand the losses suffered by that politics’ victims.

    It was eye-opening to read ‘American Pharaoh,’ a biography of Chicago mayor Richard J. Daley. This book covers Chicago, the US and the Democratic Party from the 50s to the 70s, during the desegragation and urban renewal era.

    Its description of the open housing struggle, which I remember well from my childhood, laid bare the extreme difficulty of the problem. The struggle pitted blacks, who demanded the freedom to live in decent neighborhoods and study in good schools, against resistant whites, who feared for their sense of community and economic well-being. They felt threatened by the manner in which neighborhoods changed (through unscrupulous block busting techniques) and schools were desegregated. They expressed their concerns by throwing rocks at open housing marchers. The middle-class left simply pegged them as bigots and wrote them off instead of attempting to address their concerns. Instead of all parties being served, none were.

    I think this is why I came around to being a Clintonista. You have to meet people where they are, whoever they are and whatever their circumstances. You have to elucidate their concerns and craft solutions that extend to all, so as to soothe resentment instead of fanning it. You can only do this by respecting them and earning their respect. The Clintons did this like no one else.

    These notions fueled Third Way politics, the politics of restoring and extending community and security, the idea behind ‘work hard and play by the rules.’ There is an acknowledgement that crime is shitty behavior not explained away by poverty, and it hurts the little guy the most. There is an emphasis on health care, education, and retirement security that extend to all, not some. Opportunity is emphasized over entitlement. We level the playing field and make it fair and the rest is up to you.

    I have come to despise class warfare. That solution is best which serves the widest good is my motto.

  217. My, my. Donna playing the r*ce card. That is shocking. Ya know, I went to every store in town to buy a deck and ya just can’t buy one. Rumor has it, they were all purchased by the DNC.

  218. birdgal, on September 17th, 2008 at 11:46 pm Said:

    Many war veterans do not talk about battles or being in captivity. It is one of those forbidden subjects, and something most of them would like to forget. Many have PTSD, and talking about battle or being a POW can exacerbate symptoms, so they stay away from the topic.

    That has been my impression both with family members and also having worked at VA hospitals. The vets wearing the Americal Legion or VFW hats wern’t the ones with missing limbs or a chest x-ray full of metal.

  219. PJ, thanks for the smile this evening.

    All, I don’t think JM can pull this out, but oh, I hope he does. I want him to win even though he was at the bottom of my list this election cycle. I just can’t bear BO, I could have accepted HRC, but not BO – I’m not a racist, I just don’t see that he could accomplish any of his promises and then you have a very PO’d electorate. And you have a very PO’d race who feels they were shut out, shut down, ignored, etc., who will blame whites and not the fact that they chose the wrong person to promote their own agenda. Not only Rs, but Ds.

  220. Sebelius dealt from the same deck yesterday in Iowa.

  221. Nite Nite. Got to get up early for Joe in the Morning. Eddy is beginning to worry about that relationship – especially since I lock him and the kids out of the room so there are no “distractions”.

  222. ugsome: I remember during the Vietnam War and we had nightly dispatches from there showing the soldiers, the enemy, and the citizenry. Just ordinary people who most had never ventured out of their respective villages for centuries, who had no political roots, but who merely wished to make a living, raise a family, and die content.

    And there we were, bombing, flaming, frightening, these poor souls who did nothing to deserve this. Ordinary people caught up in the political machinations entirely beyond their control. In many ways, so are we. Black, white, Asian, whatever, pawns used to enrich somebody or something.

  223. Why is it all of the women I see from the McCain camp are coming on as strong confident females and the BO women are sounding like sore losers (or, should I say sour grapettes?).

  224. Poor Eddy. In over his head. But Joe is kind of cute in his own way. It is Mika who drives me crazy.

  225. insighta, I’m assuming you’re talking about Al Kissling from NM-2. It’s surprising how hard it is for Dems to do well in NM-2 since the Demographics are somewhat favorable. King was supposed to win a couple years ago but got trounced. Kissling was not the most dynamic candidate and had to work with a Democratic Party which, from my rare travels back to the state didn’t seem very strong.

    I’m planning to move back to NM in the next year or so and will be looking for folks like you to help build a stronger progressive infrastructure there ;).

  226. I’m not sure Mika has opposable thumbs.

  227. Okay – good nite again.

  228. Night Carol.

  229. Prolix – I think you better look at your gravatar and decide whether or not you want to reconsider that remark!

  230. Mika is an idiot. Joe walks all over her.

  231. I’m off too. Just took more aspirin and antihistamine once again. Just hoping tomorrow I can feel like a human again and not like someone trampled over at an Obama rally.

  232. He was kind of threatening her today. Her father is a misogynistic ass hole.

  233. She has been on the Obama train from the beginning. Who is she kidding? And the fact that I prefer Joe and Pat B to all the others just shows how far off track I have traveled this past 18 months. That would have been a laugh getter a year ago.

  234. Well all I FINALLY FIGURED OUT my “Why wasn’t Obama @ his home-based Church the Sunday after 09/11”??!!
    As a LI/NYer I couldn’t imagine a fellow American, a local public official & a church member not being there , unless it was a really good reason.
    Here it is:
    In 2005 someone commented they heard he was “home with a newborn”. Simple enough Sasha ( Natasha) must have been born around 09/11/01…Right!
    Well NOT EXACTLY……piecing together other info it seems her
    DOB is sometime in 06/01. “THREE MOS OLD”!!!
    Sarah Palin gave birth herself & was back to work in days!
    Those were (past tense since their under-the-bus-too) his
    people & you don’t go to be with them to honor our nation’s TRAGEDY!
    Don’t get me wrong his choice to not put his community obligations above his family, normally is NONE OF MY BUSINESS; but if you want me to hire you, all’s fair.
    If Michelle didn’t feel the urge go to 09/11 ceremony this year to be home with the girls & then campaigns in(?) Ohio
    the day before is troubling to me.
    With problems in Georgia & Russia ; his vacation barely suffers a “wrinkle”…this concerns me.
    My husband mostly & I “both” are volunteer community organizer. So I say 1st hand as a spouse & a volunteer;
    “your commitment to the people your serve, TRUMPS FAMILY”! When I could no longer do that I stepped down from my work.

  235. Pat Johnson, on September 18th, 2008 at 12:28 am Said:

    Mika is an idiot. Joe walks all over her.
    I think these “news” shows have evolved in the news equivalet of pro-wrestling. The show is worked out in advance to maximize viewing numbers.

  236. Night Pat. I started off being a non-Joe person and wouldn’t have spit on Pat B. if he was on fire. Now, I am black and blue from pinching myself to see if I’m dreaming when I listen to them and agree.

  237. I just heard again “ethics reform” as an accomplishment.

    Good, lobbyists have to stand up to eat as they are dooling out the cash.

    Obama/Biden 2009

  238. someone take me out of moderation I said nothing wrong

  239. Prolix: Sad isn’t it that we have turned to the right wing broadcasts to get some semblance of balance?

  240. Sorry, Carol. This is SM’s post and she went to bed. gary the same.

  241. Apologies if this has been covered before, but it seems that Obama has really crossed the line with his latest Spanish-language ad, in which he basically accuses McCain of trafficking in deeply offensive ethnic slurs.

    Jake Tapper has the goods here: Link

    Is it me, or is this much worse than the usual political back-and-forth?

    I guess Obama thought since accusing people of racism worked in the primaries, it ought to work again in the general. Any chance the MSM will recover from hyperventilating about pigs and lipstick and slam Obama the way they’ve been beating up McCain?

  242. gqmartinez – Where are you moving in NM? I went to high school in Las Cruces and we plan to move to the Santa Fe area (from Dallas). Hopefully. Someday.

  243. They said that Obama was going to have to “take off the gloves” and this is how they intend to do it. Dirty all the way. McCain merely used Obama’s own words to trip him up. Obama invents. Big difference. The MSM won’t bother to call him out. Too much invested at this point.

  244. There were stats out today on the percentage of negative ads airing — BZero 77% and McCain 57%. Pretty telling on who is out of the hopey/changey thing.

  245. …think factchecker will bother to give Obama’s adverts a look over sans equivocation and spin. dubious in my opinion…

  246. McCain has surrounded himself with tough, substantive, strong-willed women – Cindy, his daughter, Sarah. I think he is open to a woman’s point of view and will proceed to work for the good of all of us.
    He has assigned her significant duties. I still say he will have Hillary fix Health Care.
    He is going to get the War taken care of and secure our safety. Additionally, I think he will use Bill to fix our reputation in the world.
    I’m happy. I will be very happy to have the McCain/Palin people in the White House.

    Sounds real nice!

  247. Someone was looking for a video about Lynn Forester de Rothschild. Couldn’t find one w/ her & Greta, but here’s one of her on Fox’s Cavuto show:


    Wow! She’s got class & courage!

  248. BO – “a thousand dollar tax break to the middle class”.

    That is $19.23 per week or $2.75 a day.

    Hot damn.

    Obama/Biden 2009

  249. I feel used, used by the Democratic party because I bought all the rhetoric that kept me in line for all those years. Now I have seen with my own eyes that the rhetoric was just that. The disdain that my party has shown toward women this past year has saddened me to extreme, but has also strengthened me in ways they probably never anticipated, and I will NEVER be used again.

  250. Actually, that means if we save that thousand dollars a year for the next 32 years, we can then go to the next Streisand concert in 2040!

    I wonder if we can go ahead and order our tickets now?

    Obama/Biden 2009

  251. A 30% solution PUMA at this point. That’s really amazed me. I have a strong suspicion that it really is that simple.

    Not easy, mind you. It’s a common misconception that simple == easy. It doesn’t.

    It’s a SIMPLE solution, one guaranteed of success. What it isn’t, is easy.

    But it will work. We do it, or we don’t. We either want an egalitarian society and all the goodies that come along with for the ride, or we do NOT.

    It really is that simple.

    That’s the kind of PUMA I am. The 30% solution kind.

    We keep trying to make things complicated. We love that sort of shit. Anything that we overcomplicate is because we’re running in fear from the simplicity of what we KNOW we must do. Again, not ease. Simplicity. Simple things are not always easy.

    We’re looking for excuses to not do what we know we need to, maybe because we fear getting what we want. Maybe because we’re scared to find out that, if women were in charge, the world really wouldn’t be any better.

    In which case, why not put ourselves on top?

    Or maybe the world will be better,in which case, let’s get started now. No more excuses. No more “but-but-but” nonsense where we try to psyche ourselves out and crucify ourselves on deliberately turning aside from power because we think it makes us wonderful.

    We know what will work. We do it, or we do not.

    I’m a 30% solution PUMA. It works. It will get us what we want.

    Let’s get started.

  252. Janis, I’m with you.

    How do we propagate the idea?

  253. fif – here’s the American Dream Initiative. The document includes these “pillars”:

    * Every American should have the opportunity and responsibility to go to college and earn a degree, or to get the lifelong training they need.

    * Every worker should have the opportunity and responsibility to save for a secure retirement.

    * Every business should have the opportunity to grow and prosper in the strongest private economy on earth, and the responsibility to equip workers with the same tools of success as management.

    * Every individual should have the opportunity and responsibility to start building wealth from day one, and the security and community that come from owning a home.

    * Every family should have the opportunity to afford health insurance for their children, and the responsibility to obtain it.

    * In order to expand opportunity for all Americans, we must demand a new ethic of responsibility from Washington: to put government’s priorities back in line with our values — and its books back in balance — by getting rid of wasteful corporate subsidies, unchecked bureaucracy, and narrow-interest loopholes; collecting taxes that are owed; clamping down on tens of billions of dollars in improper payments and no bid-contracts; and restoring commonsense budgeting principles like pay-as-you-go.

    That’s what a platform from HRC would have looked like! Obama’s platform is a sprawling anachronism.

  254. Can anyone post the video of Lynn’s (Hillary supporter and now for McCain-Palin) interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN? It was absolutely a breath of fresh air! You’re going to love it!

    I think I must have yelled at least 5 BOOYAHS during it!! Who saw the interview besides me? 🙂

    You can watch it here:


    Every Hillary Clinton supporter, indeed, every American, should see it.

    Spread the word!!

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  255. I would like to BE Lynn Forrester de Rothschilde.

  256. Regency,

    Indeed! 🙂

    I can’t wait to see Lynn out on the campaign trail for McCain-Palin!

    I think Lynn speaks for many Hillary Clinton supporters, and not just women, but also men.

    She said everything we’ve all been talking about, and did it with grace under fire. Loved it! LOVED IT!!

    Do spread the word!

    McCain-Palin ’08
    Hillary ’12

  257. IronMan, I will send the link to my lists, as many of them as still exists. A lot have disbanded but I’ll try.

  258. Regency,

    Found the video on YouTube:

    Here’s the link:

  259. W00t, Brad Pitt donated $100,000 in the against the California Gay marriage initiative. Guess he’s ready to get married. Angie said they’d never marry until everyone had the right to marry.

  260. I am a liberal – had it with the word “progressive” in 2000 when Naderites used it – and now with B0bots – it lost any meaning. So, I stay away from it. No longer a democrat.
    Obama stocking the flames of racism – and called on his false ad featuring Limbaugh

  261. From Holly:
    PBS has a short video on Sarah Palin on their website. Also included is a poll that asks: Is Sarah Palin qualified to be VP?

    I logged on a few minutes ago and 39% percent had voted YES, 60% NO.

    Let’s turn this around….. You don’t have to give your name or email address in order to vote. It’s very simple.
    Here’s the link:


  262. I learned long ago that there’s nothing to be won by trying to beat the netobots on online polls. They always win.

  263. Good morning! I noticed this comment from the previous post:

    kjmontana, on September 18th, 2008 at 3:16 am Said:

    “Did anyone else see CBS News tonight? They are doing a series where they ask McCain and Obama the same questions. Here is one of the questions, plus the responses:

    Katie Couric: What one personal flaw do you think might hinder your ability to be president? ”

    What a novel idea. Ask the same question!!! Hopefully more of this series will be reported here.

    In reading the responses, I believe they said the opposite of each other and both accurate. Obama will need to make a decision sooner than his usual process and McCain will need to be able to make a decision later than in his usual process. They both sound accurate to me from what I’ve seen. I’m glad Katie pressed Obama to give a better answer. I’m glad each candidate appears to know himself.

    More questions , Katie, please.

  264. Was FOX News always this fair and balanced? Were Republicans always this nice? And smart? What a strange trip it’s been.

  265. hey, a heads up regency has been on camille’s website, so regency is okay, so is wonk the vote, etc… i think we still have a couple who haven’t checked in but probably because there is still no electricity in some parts of that area…

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