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    • The Flynn Pardon Is The Right Thing To Do + Mishandling Russia
      So, Michael Flynn has been pardoned by Trump. His crime was lying to the FBI about talking to the Russians before Trump was inaugurated. Even a man like Trump can do the right thing occasionally, usually for the wrong reasons. It is entirely reasonable and routine for a President-elect’s advisors to talk to foreign governments. […]
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Ponderables from the mail box

I’ve been getting some interesting mail in the last couple of days that I thought are worth sharing with the rest of the class. There’s a bit of tea leaf reading involved. Let’s have a crack at it.

The first bit of news comes from a PUMA in PA.  We’ll make her anonymous for right now. She has the following news flash about what took place at last weekend’s meeting of the PA State Committee.  As it turns out, the meeting had to be adjourned for lack of a quorum:

The lack of a quorum prevented any business from being discussed at this past weekend’s meeting of the PA State Committee.  No yard signs because all the money is going to something like 63 offices being opened across the state http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/PAFieldOffices/ for the big O.  Those headquarters are over-run with college kids but the political pros who get Democrats elected avoided the meeting where they’d be urged by paid DNC operatives to get out and support the ticket.  (They won’t.  The delegation is still getting over the scene at Denver, and the directive to not sign the petition of 300.)  With a democratic registration edge of 1.1 million in the state, they think they can win the General when Obama lost to Clinton by nearly 10% in the primary!  Don’t they realize that a lot of those registrants and switchers from R were supporting HRC?

Ruh-Roh, doesn’t prime canvassing time happen right around midterms?  If I am reading this correctly, there is a bit of a sticky wicket in PA.  There isn’t enough money for yard signs and the delegates are in no mood to lift a finger to help Obama.  Any predictions on what will happen next in PA?

This next one is from Michele Thomas of 300 Delegates.  She found a blurb in Commentary about who is backing Obama and why:

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac survived scrutiny by manipulating, cajoling, and lobbying politicians and hiring board members who were politicos (e.g. Jamie Gorelick) rather than mortgage gurus. They hired lobbyists, gave massive donations, obtained nice tax breaks, and sailed below the regulatory radar screen.

Of the 354 lawmakers who received money from Freddie and Fannie between 1989 and 2008, Sen. Chris Dodd received the most. But next was . . . drumroll . . . Barack Obama. Yup. And he was only there for three years. Not too much went to John McCain, about a sixth of what Obama received (h/t Glenn Reynolds.)

But, you say, maybe all the Fannie and Freddie employees who gave money just “liked” Obama. That might make sense with ordinary institutions. But these two had a game plan to influence and sway lawmakers for the purpose of keeping them on the government gravy train and out of the regulatory line of fire. It’s no coincidence that they “liked” Senate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd best of all.

So it would appear that this is precisely what Obama has been railing against: Washington insiders lining the pockets of other Washington insiders while the taxpayers ultimately have to foot the bill. The Agent of Change, it seems, didn’t exactly walk the walk on this one.

Actually, Hillary herself received slightly more than Obama but then, she’s been in the Senate twice as long and in her case, there is very little evidence that she trades her support for money.  Can we same about Barack “I was against FISA before I was for it for my Invesco Field speech” Obama?  It’s interesting that John McCain isn’t getting much money from them.

Obama’s got a bit of a credibility problem when it comes to blaming the Republicans for the crappy economy, seeing as he admires Ronald Reagan and wants to work with Republicans in a post-partisan world.  If you want to hold them accountable, you may have to say and do things in committee that will cause them not to like you very much.  But confrontation is sooooo unpleasant and partisan and stuff.  We musn’t have that.  Well, it’s not like I trust him anyway so I will not be shocked when he caves to Republican obstinancy the first time he tries to work something out with them.  In the Senate, that is.  No way is he making it to the White House with the way New Jersey and New York are shaping up.

One more thing:  Tune your cat channels to Conflucians Say on PUMA United Radio (PURrrr).  We’ll be talking about the 30 Percent Solution, Barbra Streisand, Penis Years and a whole lot more.  That’s tonight at 10PM EST on Conflucians Say.

255 Responses

  1. Hey Rd, I will be listening in.

    Also Tonight is NObama book review night on “My Two Cents Radio Show”!!! Man Behind the Mask Author: Andy Martin will join me tonight.


  2. John McCain
    Vienna, OH
    September 16, 2008

    John McCain: “We’ve seen a telling moment in this campaign today. Senator Obama saw an economic crisis, and he’s found a political opportunity. My friends, this is not a time for political opportunism; this is a time for leadership.

    “Too often, we hear people say America’s in decline. I reject that. I believe America’s best days are ahead of us. Governor Palin and I are going to reform Wall Street. We’re going to reform Washington. I’m going to fight for you, and I’m going to lead our nation forward in the greatest periods of prosperity in its history.

    “And let’s have some straight talk. Senator Obama is not interested in the politics of hope, he’s interested in his political future and that’s why he is hurling in insults and making up facts about his record.

    “Today, he claimed that the Congressional stimulus package was his idea. That’s news to those of us in Congress who supported it. Senator Obama didn’t even show up to vote.

    “He talks a tough game on the financial crisis, but the facts tell a different story. Senator Obama took more money from Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac than anyone but the chairman of the committee they answer to, and he put Fannie Mae’s CEO, who helped create this problem in charge of finding his Vice President. That’s not change, that’s what’s broken in Washington.

    “He talked about siding with the people, siding with the people, just before he flew off to Hollywood for a fundraiser with Barbara Streisand and his celebrity friends. Let me tell you, my friends, there’s no place I’d rather be than here, with the working men and women of Ohio. I’m going to fight for you and together we’re going to win in November.”

  3. fred – I saw the speech. I thought it was his best ever!

  4. that’s interesting, I read the opposite (mccain got way more donations from fannie/freddie than Obama). Guess it depends on how you calculate it…

  5. Thanks for the info, Riverdaughter!

    Gee, why am not surprised? It must be because I’m an *aging white woman* from a reliably blue state that is probably going to become a battleground state.

  6. Obama got alot of contributions from Fannie and Freddie but McCain’s chief economic advisor (even though he pretends he fired him) Phil Gramm is more responsible for the current mess we are in than any member of the US Senate for the last 50 years.

    Just because we hate Obama doesn’t mean we should give McCain a pass. Republicans are more responsible for the current Wall Street meltdown than Democrats, even though Democrats should also be hanging their heads in shame.

  7. Carol I agree. McCain is not the beast they want us to believe he is

  8. sam c, you have a link?

  9. Current Board Members of AIG include:

    1) Richard Holbrooke, presumptive Obama Sec. of State who supported Hillary during the nominating fight.
    2)William Cohen, former Republican Senator from Maine. Bill Clinton’s Sec of Defense.
    4) Carla Hills, Republican US Trade Representative during Presidency of George H.W. Bush
    5)Martin Feldstein, Repbulican, Chairman President’s Council of Economic Advisors during term of George H.W. Bush
    6)Michael Sutton, Democrat, Chief Accountant, Securities and Exchange Commission during term of President Clinton.

    Both parties are responsible for the mess on Wall Street. There’s plenty of blame to go around. Even Hillary shares some of the blame. But the Republican who are against regulation are much worse than Democrats. The Republican leadership in the Senate has singlehandedly fought back excellent regulatory suggestions made by Chairman Barney Frank (who supported Hillary)

  10. So, both of the candidates left have ingested Hillary’s various bits of rhetoric to bolster themselves. So inspiring.

  11. Linda Stender is being killed by Obama’s weakness in New Jersey. From today’s Newark Star Ledger Online Edition:

    “Stender pollster says 7th district race is a statistical dead heat for Congress,.. .The poll shows presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama in a statistical dead heat in the district: McCain 45%, Obama 43%. President Bush has an upside-down favorable rating of 30%-64%.”

    Obama is killing down ticket Democrats

  12. I know it’s pretty much too late, but the Democrats NEED to show leadership and dump Obama. We’d give them credit for knowing when they’re losing and getting it together. We need Hillary.

  13. My daughter is a sophomore at Princeton and their midterms are over October 25th. Interestingly the students have the week before election day off. She’s had her mail box crammed full of stuff from the campus dems.She tries to get off their list and has the same luck I have getting off the DNC /Obama list.

  14. Wall Street is far more Democratic than Republican. But AIG and it’s former CEO Maurice “Hank Greenberg are huge Republicans.

    The failure of AIG can all be laid at the feet of Eliot Spitezer. Had Greenberg (who turned AIG into a giant) still been runing the company they never would have made the risky moves they made. Greenberg understood risk management better than anyone in the insurance business. He was forced out by then NY Attorney General Eliot Spitzer over a silly and unimportant accounting “scandal”

    The real reason Spitzer wanted Greenberg out was that Greenberg was a huge Republican donor (he gave over $225,000 to various candidates, mostly Republicans between 1998-2005 according to Open Secrets). Spitzeer wanted Greenberg out of the way before he ran for Governor.

    Who is paying the price for Spitzer’s idiocy? The employees, stockholders, policy holders and counter parties to AIG.

    Thanks Eliot!

  15. I’m afraid it’s too late to dump Obama.

    Democratic party rules say that once the nominee has concluded his acceptance speech, he is the candidate of the party.

    The party is, and deserves to be, stuck on the runaway Love Train…

  16. Regency,

    If only they had the brains and courage to do it. I’ll bet Hillary would have shared her funds with Reid and Schumer to help Senate candidates. But nooooooooo. They had to have the arrogant, selfish candidate.

  17. Hey, I think I’m in moderation with my funny McCain video from SNL.

  18. ROTFLMAO! Okay, no one can say McCain does not have a sense of humor, or can’t poke fun at himself.

    Has anyone else seen this clip of him singing Streisand songs? OMG it’s hilarious! He encourages Log C abin Republicans to buy his CD – LMAO!


  19. If you haven’t watched this video that was posted at No Quarter, please do. I had no idea Olbermann and Matthews were that bad. And I thought they were really bad. But the reality is so much worse than I ever thought.

  20. Sen. Barack Obama has turned down a request from the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee to help Democrats increase their majority in the Senate in the fall elections. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) asked Obama to share some of the money he has raised for the presidential campaign with Democratic Senate candidates in states with closely contested races. But Obama, who decided in the spring to forgo public financing of his presidential bid, becoming the first candidate to do so, cannot afford to let go of any of his campaign’s resources. This is especially true not that he trails Sen. John McCain in national polling and will need to advertise heavily to try and catch up.

    Earlier this week, the Obama campaign announced that it raised $66 million in the month of August. That figure was hailed as a record for a single month in many media accounts. But left out of the analysis is the amount of money that Obama had to spend to raise that cash, known as the burn rate. At the end of July, the campaign reported having cash-on-hand of $66 million. Add in the $66 million the campaign raised in August, and the campaign would have $132 million available if it spent nothing. But the Obama campaign reported having $77 million in the bank at the end of August, meaning that it spent $55 million during that time frame. In other words, the campaign spent 83% of what it raised in August, netting only $11 million of that record total.

    The McCain campaign predicted in a strategy memo in July that Sen. Obama would have to raise $200 million, $100 million in each of the two months of the general election, to keep pace with Republicans. Obama’s $66 million in August falls well short of that mark, creating a dilemma not only for Obama, but for Democrats nationally. The presidential candidate usually devotes at least some of his time on the campaign trail to stumping for House and Senate candidates in close races. But Obama’s private financing decision forces him to spend almost all of his fund raising time on his own campaign, decreasing opportunities for him to get his message out in swing states, and decreasing the chances of significant gains for Democrats in House and Senate races.


  21. re the race card, it’s not his pigmentation, it’s his pigmentality.

  22. In a mere three years, the financial community gave Barky nearly as much as they gave Dodd in umpty-ump years! Amazing! They’d better shovel more his way, fast, because hear tell the banking industry is going toes up.

  23. Ehem, don’t think that’s the full article. Let me find the link. Don’t cite me for copyright infringment!

  24. Charles,

    I can’t believe O’Reilly did that well. I’m excited. 33%!

  25. Obama lies about creating the stimulus package – he didn’t even show up to vote for it

  26. Charles, I would say that’s a decent showing by Ed. What say you?

  27. Link to the previous article: here

  28. wmcb,

    That was really funny! It might be nice having a President and VP who both have senses of humor. I know Barack doesn’t have one.

  29. I wonder how much attention this will get:

    In Golden, Colo., today, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., took credit for the stimulus package that passed earlier this year.

    “In January, I outlined a plan to help revive our faltering economy,” Obama said, “which formed the basis for a bipartisan stimulus package that passed the Congress.”

    Is that true?

    Democrats on Capitol Hill who support Obama say no.

    Probably none, the media and the Obamabloggers are too busy obsessing over a used tanning bed.

  30. Okie Dokie – I went to the Grocery Store earlier. That always puts me into a mood to rage and rant afterwards.

    On the way, I was listening to talk radio right. I have to agree. These companies are the Wall Street version of Enron. They have to fail with all of the consequences envolved in the transactions.

    The next part of this rant has to do with the cultural and social activities that go on from the parking lot into the grocery store aisles. It is a testament to the reason there are so many narcissistic personalities running wild in the bastions of business and government today.

    1st, no one has any manners at all. They have to be the first one into the parking spot, they park with no respect to the car they are bashing with their doors. Their kids pile out of the car with no one checking the fact that they are all over the lot blocking others from even driving through the lot. They push their baskets into any empty hole when they are done with them. 2nd, as you politely have your cart on the right side of the aisle, they whip in front of you going the opposite direction or clearly move between you and the shelf if you are standing back looking at the product. Never are the words excuse me or pardon me used. Additionally, I like it best as their party of 5 are spred 5 deep in the aisles. The employees dare you to step in their way to pick up a can of peas.

    They fight out loud and scream for their children when they disappear to another aisle.

    The employees carry on personal conversations as you stand and wait for assistance.

    My parents never allowed any kind of behavior other than the complete awareness of where you were in respect to others. There were 6 children. We damn well better not have raised our voice much less fight in front of anyone. We were made to follow the rules, excuse ourselves in any situation, wait our turns and fairness had better be our mantra.

    Today, so many people are raising self-centered brats. They haven’t taught them any manners or respect for the rules or their place in relationship to others. They go on to work for companies or government and it is all about them and what they want and how to get it. To HELL with everyone else.

    Lasso your children now, or we all pay later.


  31. bb: hahahaha
    Matthews saying he could not have given the speech before contesting the primary with Hillary.
    DUH – It gave him whatever specifics he offered in that speech. Matthews says “It gave him the steel.” Well, I’m back to watching the Yankee Stadium karma. Maybe Matthews was saying it gave him the STEAL.

  32. Obama lies constantly – re: stimulus package, “his” banking committee, etc. So did Reagan but he had an excuse.

    I really do worry that Obama is a megalomaniac.

  33. Still4HIll,

    That reminds me. I have to check on the Red Sox. They were tied for first place this AM.

  34. I kept my vote because I OWN it.

  35. The Feds are bailing out AIG.

  36. bb – It’s a loan. Hopefully, it will be required to be paid back.

  37. Congrats, bb – I really mean it. The Yankees ran last year’s post-season through now parallel to the DNC/Obama’s campaign – starting with letting Joe Torre go. In fact I think they provided him the model.

    For me it all symbolizes one unfortunate alignment of some starts or something. No Joe/No Hillary = no post-season/ no White House. 😦

  38. bb – I own a small business. In fact, I own two. Profit is a little down for one of them.

    Do you think I should take out all the cash and bankrupt it while planning for a bail out by the government?

    Its a great business model – why didn’t I think of it before.

  39. I meant *stars*

  40. Dee, on September 16th, 2008 at 9:26 pm Said:
    Obama lies constantly – re: stimulus package, “his” banking committee, etc. So did Reagan but he had an excuse.
    I really do worry that Obama is a megalomaniac.

    And, yet, FactCheck will probably overlook it as they do most of his lies. On that rare occasion when they do call him out it’s usually for “exaggerating.” And we all know the MSM will remain silent.

    Obama’s ego is huge to the point of scary. And it just keeps on growing.

  41. Dee,

    Unfortunately, I don’t think it works for small businesses. Just the superrich get the bailouts.

  42. Obama sidesteps reform in Illinois

    For those of you who still cling to the fantasy that Barack Obama is “about change,” you should note how he, or his minions, want nothing to do with reforming politics in Illinois, perhaps the most corrupt state in the Union.

    “Throughout his political career, Barack Obama has fought for open and honest government,” proclaims his campaign Web site. Apparently, no longer. When the Democratic presidential candidate—now his party’s industrial-strength voice for our deliverance from political corruption everywhere—was asked by a reformer if he would help get his political mentor back home to get off the dime and move the most minimal of state ethics legislation toward passage, the Obama campaign sent word back that amounted to a “no.”
    continue reading: http://countusout.wordpress.com/

  43. It’s the same thing every day. It’s getting rather tiresome.

  44. Suzanne Sommers is on. How did she get her face so puffed up?

  45. I think Mika used to be a journalist years ago. Please, she is so into the Obama Camp, this is a joke.

  46. The posts and comments have been great today! And everyday, I’m more and more impressed by the knowledge, diversity, and the ability of you all to write so expressively.

    But, it’s been a depressing day with all the news about the economy. And, I continue to be so very frustrated that NObama just slides by, getting away with anything and everything. I keep thinking something will blow up in his face, but nothing ever does. I feel like I’m on a roller coaster….one minute being certain he will lose and the next being terrified he will win!

    Thanks for letting me express my feelings tonight. You all keep me going!

    Hillary 2012

  47. Carol, on September 16th, 2008 at 9:21 pm Said:
    Okie Dokie – I went to the Grocery Store earlier. That always puts me into a mood to rage and rant afterwards.
    On the way, I was listening to talk radio right.

    Carol, with all due respect, how can you listen to that swill?

  48. Carol,

    I say Amen! to your rant.

  49. “We have Palin who took it on and we have Obama who used it to advance his career.”

    That is just demostrably false. There are no candidates in this election who have taken on corruption. Obama certainly hasn’t, McCain has engaged in corruption in his career. Palin has encouraged as much corruption as she has fought and even Biden has skeletons in the closet (although less than the others). Calling the candidate you don’t like corrupt while pretending the candidate that you prefer is not, is simple an act of self deception.

  50. WigWag-can you tell us about the corruption that “Palin has encouraged.” I’m not aware.

  51. IQ,
    Its pretty amazing how easily people are compromising integrity this cycle. The Corrente post can be summed up as follows: so-and-so whackjob praises Palin, therefore she is intimately tied to these whackjobs. The links aren’t even as close as Obama and Ayers/Rezko. But since “dominionists” are scary, its OK to use guilt by association. Only there isn’t really any direct association. Just whack job projections.

  52. Regency…

    ha! live by the sword, die by the sword.

  53. SweetSue – They are the only ones telling the truth about Obama.

  54. Well, Lakota, the whole imbroglio regarding the firing of the trooper is one example of what might be corruption. No one who reads this blog including me knows all the details about that and whether Palin will be exonerated or not. But if a similar claim had been lodged against Obama (who as you know I detest), many Confluence Readers would be glad to accuse him of being corrupt on that basis of the accusations that have been lodged against Palin. Certainly, the evidence against Palin in that case is no more or no less than compelling than charges of corruption made against Obama.

    As for McCain, given the fact that we are now undergoing an investment banking crisis that is reminiscent of what happened in the Savings and Loan Crisis, we should not forget McCain’s involvement in the Keating Five.

    We all hate what Obama represents and many of us won’t vote for him or any other Democrat this year. But that doens’t require us to pump up McCain/Palin or pretend that they are something that they’re not.

  55. I’m enjoying Greta’s interview with the “First Dude.”

  56. WigWag – the emails regarding the situation have been released. They have completely exonerated her of anything having to do with corruption. The man involved followed none of her requests to perform his job as mandated. He had multiple requests to perform according to his job description. He did not.

    End of Story.

  57. I really like the “First Dude”…..very down to earth & real & grateful for the opportunity to serve.

  58. What is a “dominionists” ?

  59. WigWag, with all due respect, nothing you just listed is on any level similar to Obama’s entrenchment in the Chicago Machine.

    And yes, there are examples of both Palin and McCain standing up against corruption – even within their own party. There is no such example of Obama doing that.

    You accuse us of our dislike of Obama blinding us to faults in Palin and McCain, when most of us have said repeatedly that there are areas where strongly disagree. Could perhaps your dislike of all things Republican be causing you to not give credit where credit is due? Neither McCain nor Palin is personally responsible for the actions of every Republican, ever. No more than Hillary is responsible for the actions of Obama.

  60. 47 now dead in IKE – I guess that plan of staying instead of going didn’t work out that well.

  61. WigWag

    McCain was cleared of any involvement in the Keating Five.

  62. Wigwag: If not mistaken, the Keating Five scandal happened early in McCain’s career, and led to his interest in reform. He’s got a lot of flaws as both a candidate & person, and deserves criticism in many areas, but there is some kernel of truth in that maverick reputation.

  63. Howdy. Does anyone know how much cash on hand Obama & the DNC now have compared with McCain & the RNC? Also, is it true that Obama’s been outspending McCain in the 18 supposed battleground states all summer long, to (apparently) no avail?

  64. BB: that MSNBO video of Matthews/Olberman is just astonishing. They should both have been fired the next day. It was over the top, even for them. And what was that pep rally they had for Obama? Creepy, like something from Communist Russia.

  65. This may be posted above but just in case: Kerry 69% O’Reilly 30%

  66. Windy says “McCain was cleared of any involvement in the Keating Five.” Just because he was not criminally indicted doesn’t mean he was cleared. Obama hasn’t been icriminally ndicted but we still think he’s corrupt.

  67. Charles, where do you see that?

  68. gqmartinez, on September 16th, 2008 at 10:06 pm Said:

    Its pretty amazing how easily people are compromising integrity this cycle. The Corrente post can be summed up as follows: so-and-so whackjob praises Palin, therefore she is intimately tied to these whackjobs. The links aren’t even as close as Obama and Ayers/Rezko.

    Feh, and this is the same site that bans people for bringing up Ayers, right?

    In any case, they threw the dominionist accusation at Hillary, too. The “Hillary prays with Dominionists/the Fellowship in Congress” gambit was, I believe, fall 2007-ish? I remember seeing a hit piece in Mother Jones about it and thinking, “Mother Jones? WTH? Why is MJ calling Hillary Clinton a right wing religious fundie? Why are self-proclaimed leftists saying that HRC has a decades long secret plot to take over the country with religious GOP extremism?”

    Little did I know what was to come… little did I know…

    Anyway, here’s a big ol’ yawn to the lot of them – can’t they come up with anything new? At least they recycle, I suppose.

  69. Thanks Charles for correcting WigWag’s assertions. She made some amazing leaps that surprised me.

  70. I’m proudly a member of the 30% that voted for Ed O’Reilly. I can no longer stand Kerry, even watching him on teevee now makes me sick.

  71. Carol, saw the video with the singing McCain. You’re right, it’s very funny. Poor Barbra, she has come to represent all the worst of the liberal left. Guess because she raises so much money.

  72. apparently Mika B. is still whining about McCain referring to her as “a supporter of Senator Obama” this morning.

  73. Palin emails show that her issues with the commissioner of public safety were about his refusal to follow budget reforms that she had introduced. The back and forth between them is rancorous but on that topic. None of the emails have anything to do with the firing of her former brother in law. The commissioner himself said that he was not pressured by either the governor or her husband on firing the brother in law.

  74. When did she become a journalist?

  75. anybody heard Fiorina comment about the fact that all our candidates for president including vice-president couldnt run a big corporation? Well considering that some big CEOs cant run big corporations either as we have seen the recent crashing of big companies, the fact is that she is basically right. Obama, McCain,Palin and Biden cant run anything… its sad or maybe being president its really not that big of a deal

  76. That’s funny, Murphy on the radio mentioned Barbara right after I mentioned her here.

  77. “Dee, on September 16th, 2008 at 10:44 pm Said:
    Thanks Charles for correcting WigWag’s assertions. She made some amazing leaps that surprised me.”

    Obama has many flaws. They are almost to numerous to mention. One of his most disgusting traits is his tendency to say anything, if it provides him with a temporary tactical advantage.

    I don’t plan to emulate his disgusting behavior by holding John McCain or Sarah Palin to a lesser standard than I hold him.

  78. jonas8: My new MORE magazine that came today has an article with Carly in it, but I haven’t had a chance to read it yet. It’s several pages long, with several good pics.

  79. Wow, Lynne Forrester de Rotschilde is backing McCain. Hell, yeah.

  80. Murphy discussed Al Franken with BB, and the question of whether he endorsed Obama [or how strenuously he endorsed him] came up. Does anyone know?

  81. Sorry WigWag, I don’t agree. I find her social opinions her right.

    I also listened carefully to 2 attorney’s on Fox today that read the trail of emails regarding the TrooperGate investigation. They declared cause and effect was evident. The Attorney General has declared she will not answer a bogus request to the supoenas.

    Obama and Palin are separate issues. I don’t compare apples to oranges.

  82. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2083758/posts mcain tried to introduce reform bill on fannie mae 2005

  83. The obots are going hard after Carly Fiorina, I think because she has credibility and she has been very vocal about sexism.

    Paul Begala called her an idiot on Hardball today.

    Chris Matthews wondered if her “fundamentals are sound”.

    Utterly, utterly disgusting.

  84. Sean Hannity (of all our “faves”) did have an interesting clip in which he read from a 2005 piece of legislation that McCain introduced that was blocked. It was about reigning in Freddie and Fannie and included a statement from McCain stating that if the Senate and congress did not take action Fannie and Freddie could cause serious harm to the American economy. If anyone knows how to access that I think it would make a very good post. I am surprised that McCain does not have an ad out quoting this attempt at reform.

  85. They are all over Carly because of Penny Pritzer being the chief financial advisor of Obama. She is the billionaire with the failed bank she was in charge of. This is positioning. Carly is very intelligent. She had to fight the boys in charge and the backbiting.

  86. I’ve been reading the book The Case Against Barack Obama and he is anything but a reformer. It’s a good book without a bunch of hyperbole that details his time in Illinois.

    Mountain Sage

  87. Lately the pundits on tv and radio have been “questioning” Palin’s religious affiliations and church…

  88. wigwag – with regard to Sarah… Your comments seem to me to lack proportionality. Even if the Governor wanted the trooper fired it doesn’t change the lives of nearly 100% of her constituents and it did not line her pockets.

    What Biden or Obama have done, or failed to do as senators, effects almost every American citizen. Simultaneously they have taken buckets of money from the folks they should be watchdogging.

  89. Fiorina was probably not the best woman CEO. But she did say today that none of the candidates had the experience to run a major US corporation. The Obama camp cut off her remark to the point where she said McCain and Palin could not do so but cut off where she added neither could Obama and Biden. I thought her point was excellent in that a large for profit corporation has a totally different task and mind set from the US government—she described that very well.

    I thought O was not going to take things out of context and play gotcha?

  90. Sponsor: Sen. Charles Hagel [R-NE]hide cosponsors
    Cosponsors [as of 2007-01-08]
    Sen. Elizabeth Dole [R-NC]
    Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]
    Sen. John Sununu [R-NH]
    Cosponsorship information sometimes is out of date. Why?

  91. Possibly someone with more experience at reading a bill feel it is good information. i’m only ok at trying to find information, not understanding it.

  92. As citizens, Sarah and all members of her family had the duty to report the behavior of the brother-in-law and request that he be removed for the safety of the citizens.

    Because she is Mayor or Governor or Chief Dog Catcher is of no relevance in my opinion.

    If he had tased my child, they would be scraping him off of the windshield.

  93. goodnite

  94. I’ve worked close to the business for several decades. Both Democrats and Republicans are responsible and populate some of the highest positions in the industry. They support the candidate they know will do the most for them.

    One of the surprising things I learned years back as a fresh faced voter and Dem, is that Democrats only pay lip service to wanting regulation. Greed has no loyalties to a party or phi;osophy.

  95. Got kicked off here for a few minutes, but to go back for just a second to our discussion with Wigwag, I think her answers actually proved something. There is no perfectly clear, clean candidate. If Hillary were the nominee, she would be on the receiving end of nasties from the Repubs re Travelgate or whatever.

    The thing is, we all know or can easily find, a great of both good and bad info about virtually any candidate except Obama. While the info on any particular scandal may not be complete [witness the talk this spring over Vince Foster], we do know a great deal about the “sniff” value of most accusations and how they were dealt with. We are suspicious about Obama, not just because of how he conducted this primary, but of his history and his associates, and can find so little.


  96. “I find her social opinions her right.”

    So Carol, you like Palin’s positions on abortion, gay rights, prayer in school and creationism. I guess you never really supported Hillary because Hillary would find those positions reprehensible.

    I have nothing against people who will vote for McCain/Palin because they think Obama is too awful to contemplate or because they want to lodge a protest. I may even do it myself.

    But I have alot against people who actually agree with McCain/Palin on issues like gay rights. If that’s you, Carol, you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to find it reprehensible.

    As for the trooper imbroglio, even if you are correct about the e-mails (and I am not sure you are), the e-mails are not necessarily the only pertinent evidence.

    And let me ask you a question, Carol. If Obama was accused of exadtly the same thing as Palin is, with exactly the same set of facts; wouldn’t you be the first to exclaim how strong the evidence is of Obama’s corruption?

    PUMAs are not supposed to be hypocrites. It’s Obama and his supporters who are the hypocrites.

    We shouldn’t be emulating them.

    Emulating them makes us less credible critics of Obama not more credible critics of Obama.

  97. Carly was in way over her head at HP, although you have to admire how she fought her way to the top.

    She was fairly effective at AT&T and was among the people who engineered the spinoff of Lucent. Even there people complained that she managed to leave before things went south.

    I really believe she would have driven HP to the ground, had the board not fired her on time (barely).

    But she’s far from being the perfect illustration of the Peter Principle, unlike Obama.

  98. Robin at 11:03 quotes Tweety:

    Chris Matthews wondered if her “fundamentals are sound”.

    I swear to God, isn’t that an exact line from Pride & Prejudice?

  99. Yes, there are decent business people out there doing the right thing – I see it first-hand now that I’m a fed.

    But it does remind me of something the late, great Spaulding Gray said – “happy people don’t make history”.

  100. Fox News:

    “JUNEAU, Alaska — Alaska’s attorney general says state employees subpoenaed in the investigation of Gov. Sarah Palin will not testify.

    In a letter to the Democratic state senator overseeing the investigation, Attorney General Talis Colberg asks that the subpoenas be withdrawn. He also says the employees will not appear before the investigator unless either the full state Senate or the entire Alaska Legislature votes to compel their testimony.”

  101. At least Fiorina run HP and some say taht she actually did a good job. Now HP is laying off 24000 people in the next couple of years and nobody is firing the ceo

    Begala couldnt run anything to save his life. I cannot see why people listen to him

  102. “What Biden or Obama have done, or failed to do as senators, effects almost every American citizen. Simultaneously they have taken buckets of money from the folks they should be watchdogging.”

    And what about Senator McCain’s performance in the Senate do you find so laubable, Dee. Do you think his performance on the Senate Commerce Committee has been distinguished? Do you support the War in Iraq and the way it has been handled? Do you prefer McCain;s donors in the energy industry and pharmaceutical industry to Obama’s donors on Wall Street or Hollywood? If you answer yes to either of these questions, than you never really supported Hillary and you aren’t a PUMA. You’re just a Republican in disguise,

    By all means, vote for McCain. It may be the smart thing to do. But don’t deceive yourself into thinking you;re not voting for a horrible candidate. You’re just voting for a less horrible candidate.

  103. WigWag-I also respect your opinions. However, I think Carol was just saying Palin’s social opinions are her right, not that she was agreeing with them all. But, what do I know? I do feel we all on this site have a history of respecting other people’s opinions, and most of all….listening and considering. That’s one of the reasons I come here everyday.

  104. WigWag-The last thing I want to do is get into an argument, but please don’t be telling anyone of us that we “never supported Hillary.” I know it may not be appropriate to fight someone else’s batles here, but I’ve heard that line so many times when people disagree….on other sites.

  105. The Bill and McCains speech trying to get it passed (the bill was not passed due to democrats and republicans) – it shows that not only does McCain have an excellent sense of economic issues, but also good judgement.

    Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005

    Bill Summary

    1/26/2005–Introduced. Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 – Amends the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 to establish: (1) in lieu of the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), an independent Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Agency which shall have authority over the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation, the Federal Home Loan Banks, the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac); and (2) the Federal Housing Enterprise Board. Sets forth operating, administrative, and regulatory provisions of the Agency, including provisions respecting: (1) assessment authority; (2) authority to limit nonmission-related assets; (3) minimum and critical capital levels; (4) risk-based capital test; (5) capital classifications and undercapitalized enterprises; (6) enforcement actions and penalties; (7) golden parachutes; and (8) reporting. Amends the Federal Home Loan Bank Act to establish the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation. Transfers the functions of the Office of Finance of the Federal Home Loan Banks to such Corporation. Excludes the Federal Home Loan Banks from certain securities reporting requirements. Abolishes the Federal Housing Finance Board.

    “Sen. John McCain [R-AZ]: Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

    The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

    The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

    For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs—and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

    I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

    I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

  106. Wigwag, so what’s the big surprise? We all know that we’re not getting what we want; we all wanted Hillary,and we’re all quite depressed about it. We’ve always said we’d be voting for the lesser of two evils, whether it be McCain, McKinney, Nader or write-in.

    Some of us have different second choices, that’s all.

    Please, stop the lecture and stop the cross-examination.

  107. Charles: And I believe she was a big donor/fundraiser, right?

  108. Citizenship is defending the rights of each and every individual. I may not agree with their opinions, but I defend their right to those opinions.

    I think you have misinformation regarding her record. I leave it to you to correct your impression with the facts. Newsweek actually cleared up most of the issues you have sited.


  109. Lady de Rothschilde went PUMA and backed McCain? Wow!

  110. McCain’s comments today were commendable. I honestly believe that McCain cares more about the working person than Obama. McCain has never been a corporatist; I think he is a somewhat old-fashioned Western fiscal conservative who has no great love for big business. I don’t think he likes the Ivy League MBAs who run Wall Street and many of the big companies. I am not deluding myself that he is in any way an economic Progessive such as Hillary Clinton, but I do not trust Obama’s instincts one iota, nor do I think that he has the slightest interest in anything but the votes of the average American working person. Over his career, McCain has tried to improve things in various ways; Obama has not done or stood for one significant thing in his political life..

  111. BB, thanks for posting that video upstream. I couldn’t get beyond 1:51 without my head exploding. When I consider on a good night they have around 300K viewers, it puts it back into perspective.

  112. When I saw her interview at the end of the primary, I wondered if she would desert the Dems. She sounded like I felt.

  113. Is someone using Wig’s ID?

  114. If Hillary were our nominee, we’d have plenty to say about Palin and McCain, so I agree with Wig Wag. If Hillary were our nominee and she’s selected Obama, we’d probably be looking at the two of them in a different light.

  115. I totally agree, William!

  116. I just reviewed the SNL video with John McCain singing Barbra Streisand – Classic! Check out the cover, too (did he actually pose for that?) Hope his campaign, or the few friendly cable new shows can have fun with it, as a response to Babs’ fundraiser.

    Sigh…to think Barbra used to be for Hillary…

    Also, caught some of the show between Greta’s program – thanks! Glad you took as many calls as you did, and the discussion it generated. Creepy to keep hearing of anyone seen as a threat to Obama gets threatened.

    If Obama, his campaign, and supporters act like this now, what would they do if they gain power? No wonder he voted for FISA – Barry wants to spy on his enemies as POTUS. God help us.

  117. Jmac: We all know it would be different if Hillary were the nominee, but that’s not the case. If….

  118. parentofed, I;m not lecturing anyone, I’m just saying what I think just like everyone else. And I’m not using foul language or supporting Obama. I would venture to say that there is no one who comments on this site who detests Obama more than I do. That’s why I don’t want to act like him or his supporters and that’s why when I think other commentators are doing that, I want to respectfully point it out.

    I think one of the many reasons that this site exists is so that people who support Senator Clinton and don’t support Senator Obama have a forum to exchange ideas. That’s not the same as lecturing and it’s not the same as cross examining.

    If that is too much for you, parentofed, I suggest that when you see a comment from WigWag, you just move on.

  119. Charles – thanks for that info. Whoa! The Lady being a member of the Platform Committee, and going PUMA – that is huge!

  120. Jmac, I don’t think that people annoyed at disagreeing with WigWag, so much as getting annoyed at being lectured. People tend not to respond well to finger-wagging.

  121. “Is someone using Wig’s ID?”

    The moderator can see my e-mail address so they will know that it is me, WigWag.

    But I see that perhaps I have been more contentious than people are in the mood for, so I will say good night.

    Sleep well everyone!

  122. Jmac-I’m sure you’re right. If Hillary was the nominee, I wouldn’t even be considering voting for McCain/Palin, but I also agree with Carol….I’ll always defend the right of a person to have her/his own opinion. I might not like it or understand it. I know that I wouldn’t be bashing Sarah Palin right now if Hillary was the nominee. I’d be apprehensive, but until I hear something really awful that she’s done (think Pelosi), I can’t bash another woman for her beliefs.

  123. It just reminds me of my democratic book club. We read the Mary Mapes book about Dan Rather and W. and the draft. She clearly states in the book that she goofed, she should have had the information she presented documented and she should have pulled the story before it aired. I was the only Democrat in a room of about eight who said she deserved to be fired. Everyone stood up for her simply because she was a Democrat.

  124. WigWag, I’m with you. I can’t stand the thought of either Obama or McCain within a mile of The White House.
    We have Obama trolls, here, and we have Republican trolls too.
    I respect the Republicans who declares themselves openly. The others–not so much.

  125. Maybe Wig and I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I’ve been in a bad mood all day. Even accused Tom in a previous thread of being a troll.

  126. Prolix,

    I had to shut it off too. I just couldn’t take it.

  127. If that is too much for you, parentofed, I suggest that when you see a comment from WigWag, you just move on.

    Wow, another lecture! You’re probably right about passing you by. You’re the first person I’ve ever had to do this with on Confluence.

  128. Jmac-Maybe it’s something in the stars! I, too, woke up in a bad mood, depressed all day, missing Hillary!

  129. Here is an argument I’ve seen spinning about on the argument:

    Jack states “I don’t like Obama and I was gonna vote for McCain, but then McCain chose Palin.”

    then Jack goes on to offer why he is so undecided now about voting for McCain, which is a long litany of why Palin is so terrible and how she scares Jack.

    Lastly Jack says he most likely wont vote for either Obama or McCain.

    The objective is to get people to cast their protest vote in a manner that is causes less damage to the Obama “cause”, i.e. losing a vote is better than losing a vote to the opposition.

    Has anyone else seen this “argument” making the rounds?

  130. parentofed: Please, stop the lecture and stop the cross-examination.

    I will second that. I think most of the commenters on this blog are well informed, keep up with the news and issues on a daily basis, follow the latest polls. We all process this information and make judgment calls. Sure, our calls are colored by our individual biases, and the tempers of the time. But the angry accusations and presumptuousness levelled at the commenters here get old.

  131. BB, a little project that might be fun and enlightening is after the first debate to watch Keith the OdiousMan and also watch the blogs like Cheetoland to see if their comments automatically come out of his mouth. I’ve seen it happen, like about the “community organizer lobby,” but I didn’t log it in order to write something about it.

  132. well, i’m waiting for the debates. i want to see Obama debating McCain

    Are they going to have a town hall style debate or are all of them questions from moderators??

    Palin is going to meet foreign leaders at the UN next week. isnt that what Obama did when he went on his European tour? fillthe gaps in his resume?

    did Obama ever met a foreign leader before he went to europe??

  133. CNN’s Crowley: Obama Team Wanted ‘Horrific’ Wall Street Headlines

    On Monday’s “Anderson Cooper 360,” after CNN senior political analyst David Gergen said “what happened over the weekend with the economy and the bottom falling out of the financial markets…is the opportunity for Obama to seize the momentum back on his side,” Crowley actually said, “[J]ust as foreclosures were showing up on B-17, or in the real estate section, along comes this horrific headline out of Wall Street…I mean, this is what they wanted.”

    I kid you not. The transcript of this disgraceful exchange

  134. Charles: Some of us were looking forward to that visit. Do you think that’s why Hillary cancelled, to avoid the political overtones?

  135. I got an email from Michelle Obama:

    Barack was raised by a single mother and grandmother. He understands the tough choices that working women in this country face every single day — because he lived it.

    He lived as a working woman????

  136. i’m not good at grammar but shouldnt it be :

    because he lived them (the choices??)

  137. Gary, nicely done.

  138. parentofed: It’s that Obama supporter tone of those wigwag comments that do it. that silly, “if you believe blah, then you never supported Hillary”. Like fingernails on the chalkboard. yuck.

  139. those 9 millions were frm the Streisand fund raiser?

    McCain is going to have a field day with that

  140. Ralph: Thanks. Wigwag left as soon as she posted her remarks to me, so I can’t fairly comment on them anymore.

  141. Please, Ralph. Stop with the negative personal comments. You were doing that earlier, and I asked you to stop. WigWag is a long-time commenter here. You are relatively new. Please don’t get personal.

  142. gary – his grandmother was not single. His mother remarried after whatever the first relationship was.

    My son was raised by a single mother. I divorced when he was 2 and never remarried. I also worked hard to give him everything including an education that I paid for at USC. I’m not gripping and neither is my son.

    Sooooooooooo, what ‘s MO’s point?


  143. parentofed,

    I guess I missed the dustup. Maybe it was just a bad night for WigWag.

  144. What happened in Massachussetts?

  145. Gary,

    Did you listen to Matt’s blog radio show? I know Andy Martin is supposed to be a bit of a kook, but what he was saying about Obama’s grandmother was interesting. He said Obama is keeping her completely under wraps for fear someone will talk to her.

  146. McCain is opening Bill’s event. Why would Hillary boycott an event with Sarah? It doesn’t make sense.

  147. Fellow cats – just remember where a generic Dem nominee would have been in the polls compared with where Bambi is now. This was supposed to be a no-brainer Dem year. It ain’t. The PUMA’s saw this coming and we all should be proud of our powers of perception. As well as our collective powers of persuasion – PUMA’s are a bright bunch.

    And if this bit of cheerleading ain’t working for ya, dig out a favorite DVD this weekend. And hug someone you love.

    I’m getting sentimental. Must have been the name change from two states to a childhood nickname. ‘Night all.

  148. William, I’m with you, with one caveat:

    Obama lacks instinct.

    It’s one of the things that makes me nervous about having him lead our country. He seems to be tone-deaf; he makes foolish decisions; he constantly miscalculates, overestimates, assumes.

    In only one area does his instinct serve him well:

    How to take shortcuts to get elected.

    I fail to see how that’s going to help any of us out in these dire times.

  149. bb: if you asked me to do anything earlier, sorry but i missed it. and if you like being lectured, that’s fine with me, i won’t say another damned word.

    can you point me to the earlier negativity?

  150. bb, no –mawm and I were watching a movie. missed both. I think the whole premise of MO’s argument is stupid though. I also had a mother and a grandmother–does that make me an expert on working women’s issues too?

  151. BB: Ralph is right, that line about ‘never supporting Hillary’ is an emotional duel glove in an argument. Guess I felt she was attacking Carol, too, and we’ve both been here a long time. Not that I think Carol needs my defense. I thought others were tired of the whole she-bang, but you never know.

  152. Prolix,

    I was over at the Cheeto a couple of days ago and I came across a discussion where people were saying that Obamaman seems to get his ideas straight off their blog. I think that guy has really lost it. I’m betting he is going to end up imploding like he did on ESPN.

  153. Gary,

    Well what do you know. I had a father and grandfather. Does that make me an honorary man?

  154. “jvsp, on September 16th, 2008 at 11:47 pm Said:

    Here is an argument I’ve seen spinning about on the argument:

    Jack states “I don’t like Obama and I was gonna vote for McCain, but then McCain chose Palin.”

    then Jack goes on to offer why he is so undecided now about voting for McCain, which is a long litany of why Palin is so terrible and how she scares Jack.

    Lastly Jack says he most likely wont vote for either Obama or McCain.

    The objective is to get people to cast their protest vote in a manner that is causes less damage to the Obama “cause”, i.e. losing a vote is better than losing a vote to the opposition.

    Has anyone else seen this “argument” making the rounds?”

    Yes, on the opposite side, vote Bob Barr – don’t stay home, shore up the 3rd party. It’s a good strategy actually. Gives the 3rd party credibility (which I don’t object to). The problem is those people rarely, if ever win (Joe Lieberman is a good example that it could happen), but they usually go back to the R or the D for the next election.

  155. What bostonboomer said. Wigwag has been here for a long time.
    No one can talk me into voting for Obama. No one can talk me into voting for McCain.
    This time the problem is that there is no lesser of two evils.

  156. I thought someone had done a study that showed Olberman got his talking points from DK, but I used to notice that myself. He even used the same phrases that had been on DK.

  157. Reading all the usual blogs the last few days, I can’t decide if I am drinking too much, or not enough.

  158. Not enough. Cheers!!!!

  159. “Barack was raised by a single mother and grandmother. He understands the tough choices that working women in this country face every single day — because he lived it.”

    gary, I wanted to spit as I read this.

    What he did was take what the resources these women represented, and use them. Fine. They were family.

    Then he used Hillary as a resource.

    Now he wants to use me.

    Sorry, MO, but I didn’t give birth to your husband. My love and respect are not automatic. He has to earn them.

    Try asking him to pay his female staff equally.

    Or is that just another feminine resource to him?

  160. BB, I think that for once something on the Cheeto channel might be truthful. I do suspect he or someone is logged on to those blogs and he gets many of his wacked out comments straight from there. If someone could prove that he is that might light the fuse for his obligatory self-implosion. Just saying…

  161. back when I was still reading C&L and watching oman, mawm and I said to each other more than once that he was lifting his material straight from their site. I actually thought they had an agreement, because the next day C&L always had his worst person bit on the blog.

  162. Parentofed and BB-I agree. Ralph was right about the “never supported Hillary” comment. I know I don’t comment here on every thread or everyday, but I read every word and consider you all my family. Sorry if I got into it with a trusted commenter, WigWag. I was just really upset by the tone and what I heard as negatives toward some of our comments.

  163. Rep. Woman:

    Winger blogs are seeing some of Axelrod’s Astroturf trolls now.

    They usually pose as concerned conservative Christians.

    One claimed to be from Alaska, but had an IP from the Chicago suburbs.

  164. MyIQ, “Reading all the usual blogs the last few days, I can’t decide if I am drinking too much, or not enough.”

    If you figure it out: Please let me know. It might solve some of my issues too.

  165. gary: there’s definitely a left blogger boys circuit, isn’t there?

    I remember thinking that it was like buying a bunch of women’s magazines at the same time. When you do that, you’ll find that they many of them share the same stories, interviews, news, etc.

  166. MyIQ, “Reading all the usual blogs the last few days, I can’t decide if I am drinking too much, or not enough.”

    If you figure it out: Please let me know. It might solve some of my issues too.


    I keep shaking my head, to make sure I heard or read something correctly. It has been bizarre.

  167. Palin has been so far careful to say she keeps her beliefs separate from policymaking, and so far as I can tell the record generally supports that. If that remains the case, I have no problem with her social views.

  168. Magdalena,

    I’m a working woman, and one of the tough choices I had to make was that I’m not voting for Obama. I wanted to like him. I thought it would be wonderful to elect the first black president. But I did a lot of research and found out he wasn’t “The One” I wanted to vote for. I’m glad he understands my tough choice.

  169. Trolls who use names like obot, tend to get deleted quickly. Just a hint to the trolls lurking out there.

  170. Republican Woman,
    I suppose the “argument” is equal opportunity 🙂 As I was taught, if one wants to persuade someone, appeal to that which has sway with that someone. I see precious little of the arguments of the aforementioned. Rather disconcerting in my opinion, the lack of coherent argument.

  171. I just sent an email to my state branch of NOW protesting the national organization’s endorsement and asking that Virginia NOW publicly reject National’s action.
    Especially If you are or have been a member, I urge you to do the same, and possibly follow up with a letter to the editor of your local newspaper.

  172. Hi Katiebird!

  173. good night all, thanks for being here!

  174. Carol, I think Hillary is being a good team player and doesn’t want to draw media attention or fire by meeting Palin.

  175. Christine Pelosi is smarting off that Palin made people pay for their rape kits. That is a lie. It was already in place that this was a fee covered by insurance if appropriate.

  176. Hi BostonBoomer!

    Charles, I just sent you an emai -> ->

  177. Lakota,

    I missed that particular comment. But Wigwag has been here for a long time and deserves the benefit of the doubt. I think it’s fine for people to talk back to someone who is lecturing or telling them how to vote. What I was talking to Ralph about was *personal* attacks. It’s possible to tell someone to back off but not be rude and snide. That was all I was saying.

  178. Agreed, Ugsome. I think she was worried that the media notion of her and Sarah at the same event would overshadow their reason for being there. She didn’t want this to be about the would-be election of 2012. It’s supposed to be about this important human rights cause. That’s what she cares about evne if she can’t be there to make her voice heard in person.

  179. Good night dcattorney.

  180. It’s been approximately 24 hours since Palin released copies of memos showing that she fired the public safety director for insubordination, and not because he refused to fire her ex-brother-in-law.

    Lefty blogs that have reported on this?

    I can’t find any. Jeralyn has covered Troopergate obsessively, but not a peep on this.

  181. Anyway, to be clear, I don’t think Parentofed or Carol deserve to be attacked either. On this blog, we have made a point of respecting each others choices about who to vote for. What we agree on is that we don’t want Obama. I have listened carefully to people’s reasons for voting for McCain, and I’ve gone from saying I’d never vote for him to deciding I will if it looks like the race is close in my state. I’m sorry if people’s freedom to choose got stepped on in this thread.

  182. Carol, on September 17th, 2008 at 12:25 am Said:
    Christine Pelosi is smarting off that Palin made people pay for their rape kits. That is a lie. It was already in place that this was a fee covered by insurance if appropriate.


    The apple doesn’t fall very far from the tree, does it?

  183. myiq,

    I have developed a whole new way of looking at politics and the media now that I don’t have a dog in the race. I keep asking myself: were Democrats always this sleazy? Or is this something new that has come with Obama? I just don’t know for sure. But I don’t want to go back to seeing things just from one side.

  184. bb: “I keep asking myself: were Democrats always this sleazy?”

    I was asking my parents today if they remembered a campaign where a candidate blamed the voters. “You’re not smart enough” “You’re a racist” “You’re bitter” — and laughing at voters.

    My mom had gone off on a rant about how politics has always been rough. And that’s true. But the roughness has been between (or directed at) candidates.

    Even my mom can’t remember an election like this one. (this was a huge concession from her)

    I took TalkLeft out of my bookmarks (but I still peak at in now and then anyway)

  185. I certainly can’t remember any candidates blaming voters. Carter told us we were apathetic or something. That didn’t go over too well either. I can’t remember another candidate making fun of people from small towns, can you?

    I took TL out of my bookmarks too. I’ve gone over there a couple of times, but usually don’t see much I want to read.

  186. Republican Woman, on September 17th, 2008 at 12:05 am Said:
    “jvsp, on September 16th, 2008 at 11:47 pm Said:

    ” . . .The objective is to get people to cast their protest vote in a manner that is causes less damage to the Obama “cause”, i.e. losing a vote is better than losing a vote to the opposition.”

    I have noticed this since my TL days. Which is why I always made a point of saying that I want to maximize my vote against Obama by voting for McCain. This was also before the conventions and before Palin.

    To me, McCain/Palin team is mainly THE ANTIDOTE to Obama’s election chances. The way the polls read now, it would seem that my initial assumption was correct. And I hope it stays that way.

    Obama can appropriate for himsself and run on the basis of all of Hillary’s policies and it will not affect my decision because I know those are just words to him. He has amply demonstrated his predisposition to say anything to get people’s support (an accusation he made against Hillary. It must have been self-projection).

    I trust McCains love of country and strength of character already on record. I have faith that he will indeed reach out to the best and brightest in the country regardless of partisan affiliations, to make sure he does what is best for the country. I believe he is a man of his word. An officer and a gentleman.

  187. I think I drove everyone away with my lecture about personal attacks. I’m sorry everyone!

    For anyone who is still here, you have to go over to No Quarter and read the story about the Obama “change rings.” Somebody try to tell me it’s not a cult after you read that.

  188. felizarte – Bravo! I agree totally!

  189. I agree with you too. I’m really chicken to just vote for McCain. I respect the people who have made that decision and I do get the logic of it. I’m going to decide once I get into the voting booth, and these days I’m getting closer and closer to taking the plunge to vote aaaargh Repub for the first time in my long life.

  190. bb – Thanks for the defense! Not that I needed it. Personal attacks based on misinformation is unacceptable.


    Punishment, Retribution and Reform 2008

  191. BB, I’m still here. I’m running down something on the tubez. And no, it doesn’t cost $9.99 a minute to search.

  192. (Waving) Hi Charles – I sent you an email about logging into WordPress and The Confluence…

  193. Carol,

    No, you definitely don’t need it. You can take care of yourself very well. But I don’t like to see anyone unfairly attacked.

  194. bostonboomer, on September 17th, 2008 at 12:48 am Said:
    I think I drove everyone away with my lecture about personal attacks. I’m sorry everyone!

    For anyone who is still here, you have to go over to No Quarter and read the story about the Obama “change rings.” Somebody try to tell me it’s not a cult after you read that.


    I don’t think you’ve driven people away. I think it’s just getting late in the evening.

  195. Hi Prolix! Anything interesting that you want to share?

  196. If you want to know what TL is doing today:

    BTD is unchanged

    Jeralyn hasn’t done a PDS post since last night.

    TChris is still trying and failing to be snarky and/or clever

  197. Just check out this website about the “change ring.”


    From No quarter:

    Gotta love that marketing! Voting for President is more than just a civic responsibility. It’s cool, too! First, behold The ChangeRing. Then, behold why it is a problem:

    …A wearable symbol of “change” that is becoming a cult hit in Obamaland. Originally designed to be a wearable key-chain … young Obamaphiles have also taken to hanging it from a necklace or strapping it on their wrist.

    Driving its movement around the country is that it is sold as “buy one/give one” and people are passing it to their friends and family members.

    Another thing that makes The ChangeRing so compelling is the multi-layered story that has been woven into the product: the ring and its packaging are made in America from recycled materials … with an SMS lost-key tracking system. The ChangeRing also comes in a re-usable package. …

    The ChangeRing has also produced the first full musical compilation in support of Obama: 14 Change cover songs … by various American artists [downloadable] on the website.

    Celebrities reportedly wearing The ChangeRing: Susan Sarandon, Cuba Gooding Jr, Nick Cannon, Mary-Kate Olsen, Kelly Carlson, Tim Robbins, Ashley Simpson, … Pharell Williams and N.E.R.D., Alan Cumming, Hayden Panettier, Josh Lucas, Kerry Washington, Matthew Modine, Pras (Fugees), Apl.de.ap (Black Eyed Peas), … Jessica Alba. …



  198. Nite Nite – Joe is early in the morning. And, I have been sleeping through most of it.

    Besides, Piper and Trig and Eddy are already asleep.

  199. myiq,


  200. For anyone who is still here, you have to go over to No Quarter and read the story about the Obama “change rings.” Somebody try to tell me it’s not a cult after you read that.

    What is that, a paperclip? The whole thing reminded me of the Joe Camel ads. Kids, don’t smoke Obama. It’s bad for you.

  201. Night, Carol.

  202. I’ll keep my email open, Charles. It hasn’t arrived yet.

  203. I’d better hit the sack too. I have to teach tomorrow afternoon.

  204. Okay, if I find out Moby or Santana are wearing it, I’m in. Obama will have finally won me over.

  205. Goodnight, BB — Sleep well. ♥♥♥

  206. Thanks. You too, KB.

  207. Good Job everyone trying to unseat Kerry!

  208. Carol,

    I’d better not catch you wearing one of those things! And please don’t tell me Eddie has one.

  209. Eddy is voting for Johnny. He is committed to BO losing PA!

  210. Just as I suspected!

  211. Does anyone have a link to the troopergate emails?

  212. Felizeart said: “Obama can appropriate for himsself and run on the basis of all of Hillary’s policies and it will not affect my decision because I know those are just words to him. He has amply demonstrated his predisposition to say anything to get people’s support (an accusation he made against Hillary. It must have been self-projection).”

    I’m not dissing you. It was a really difficult decision for me to finally cross the line and vote for Al Gore. I wanted John McCain and cast a protest vote. But then, when JM ran this go around, I was so angry with him for his amnesty provisions that I was “anyone but JM.” I very reluctantly accepted him, based on my previous like of him sans amnesty, and I’ve worked my butt off in support of him even though I was lukewarm. I could have crossed for Hillary, but not Obama. I wasn’t quiet about the fact even though I’m very involved. I could have been an alternate to our convention probably, definitely a guest, no problem. It’s probably why when I talk to Ds who supported Hillary, I can empathize with them and I tell them they do not have to register R to vote against BO, but they do. I know they’ll change back, I understand the anger, I understand the protest. I also understand that my party has its own extremists that will drive them away. I like Sarah Palin because she’s not an extremist. Yes, she’s conservative and walks the walk, but I have found nothing that tells me she will shove the extreme right’s agenda down my throat. If she does, I’m done and moving on to n/p and all my hard work will be for nothing. I hope that’s not the case, but I recognize it could be.

  213. When BZero sacked Jim Johnson, former CEO of Fannie Mae, from his VP search team, I wonder if it was the Countrywide loans or was there chum in the water from Fannie Mae? Either way, this is fertile ground for the hopey/changey thing to draw its last breath.

  214. I just had the misfortune of going to look at he change ring. I reminded me of one of the many designs for IUDs that were developed in the ’60’s

  215. Thanks Carol. I immigrated to the U.S. in the sixties; the first place I went to see as Haight/Asbury in San Francisco where the “flower children” congregated; then on to Westwood Village in L.A. right smack into the anti-war demonstrations; cruised sunset strip on the weekends and did my share of walking barefoot and wearing beads. I had the privilege of seeing the young BB King introduced at the Ashgrove, a gathering place of the likes of Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Joni Mitchell. And Robert Redford was the ascending star. It was a time when vw buses with psychedelic paint were the “in-thing” to have. RFK was just assassinated; the young people were still in tears as they turned to Eugene McCarthy who lost to Humphrey in the Dem. nomination. Nixon had his second political life and I could never forget Sammy Davis Jr. hugging him on stage as he visibly cringed. Those were exciting and challenging times. I remember them vividly still. It was a time when the young people paid attention and tried to understand the workings and policies of their govt; and they successfully had the draft abolished. There was much idealism; I wonder if it is gone now. That would be truly tragic.

  216. Oh my! Been gone for a few days, I’m on the West Coast, and have tried to “catch up” on all the posts and comments. I dunno – it’s been a “full moon day” for me – all the news about Wall Street, etc. and the political stuff – there must be something in the air. Could be.

    I think WigWag was just sounding emotional. I can’t blame her. Everyone’s emotions are hot and heavy these days. We are inching closer and closer.

    By the way, Carol, I hear ya on the grocery store trip.

  217. Any “Battlestar Galactica” fans here? I’ve been thinking about this: Hillary is a lot like President Roslyn. Obama is A LOT like President Baltar. “Let’s populate this unknown planet and see what happens because the people tired and need hope to hold on to!” Oooops.

  218. RD,

    Here’s McCain singing Streisand:


  219. While Hill is supposedly working to elect Obama, he does not like her too much in the forefront….and frankly I don’t think she wants that either….just do her bit and wait for better days. If Hill and Palin meet ,it would be a huge media shit storm that would block out everything else for days. MSNBC / CNN would do hours and hours of ” cat fight in NY” stories well before hand etc. IMO Hill wants to stay under the radar in down ticket land.

  220. McCain is actually funny, LOL!

  221. SHV, on September 17th, 2008 at 1:23 am Said:
    “I just had the misfortune of going to look at he change ring. I reminded me of one of the many designs for IUDs that were developed in the ’60’s”

    LOL!! I didn’t think of that, but it really does! Can’t you just hear the cheesy commerical for this thing??

    The Obama Change Ring! Practical in so many ways! Use it to hang your keys. . . open a bottle or an envelope. . . clip it to your car visor to hold gas receipts. . . and in those intimate moments . . . your condom box is empty??!! (oh no!) . . . The Obama Change Ring is there for you too!! It’s a key ring, a paper clip, a bottle opener and an IUD. . . ALL IN ONE! Get yours now!!

  222. DYB, on September 17th, 2008 at 1:38 am Said:

    Any “Battlestar Galactica” fans here? I’ve been thinking about this: Hillary is a lot like President Roslyn. Obama is A LOT like President Baltar. “Let’s populate this unknown planet and see what happens because the people tired and need hope to hold on to!” Oooops.


    Baltar is a genius which Obama isn’t. I am being bias because I prefer Gaius to Roslyn. He is a misguided genius who happened to make a mistake which hurt humanity. Gaius cares about his beliefs which is something Obama doesn’t. Obama has no core beliefs. He is more of an opportunist. Obama thinks he knows everything and never tries to learn more whereas Gaius seeks more knowledge to understand what is happening around him. He is also more fascinating than Obama will ever be.

  223. “Carol”
    Thanks for that in site about the rape kit charge. What you said
    makes more sense. I was concerned that Hannity avoided addressing it.
    “Republican Woman”
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I often wondered “if” the McCain voter’s made a protest back in 2000 would we have had Bush?? I met many people like you while campaigning
    for Hillary that would have voted for her.
    Obama actually believed the whole “obamacains” thing.

  224. I’m beginning to think that perhaps Obama is as smart as some people say he is. However, his knowledge is in the abstract. He likes theory to the exclusion of practice. That is why he emphasizes his community service so much. That’s his only hands on experience. Thus his lack of accomplishments.

  225. what the US needs is not the smartest person to be POTUS but a doer who can deliver and community organizing is not the most impressive track record

  226. He did have a job position as head of the Anneberg(? SPELL)
    group I believe, appointed by Aryers. It failed big time!!

  227. My Change candidate passes on the chance to help reform in his own state

  228. tpt/ny, on September 17th, 2008 at 6:59 am Said:

    He did have a job position as head of the Anneberg(? SPELL)
    group I believe, appointed by Aryers. It failed big time!!


    It must have been unremarkable. “Annenberg Obama” yielded no record of his involvement on the first page of a Google search.

  229. It’s the Annenberg Challenge. Here’s a google search from the words Annenberg Challenge Obama:


  230. anybody has any idea when and where he did ‘work’ as constitutional lawyer?

  231. I just cleaned out my computer…AGAIN..; but
    I’m pretty sure I got something ( possible from Andy Martin) saying
    that Ayers gave Obama this position around 1995 & it went down-hill for the 1st time.

  232. vivienne, he didn’t do work as a constitutional lawyer, he taught it as an adjunct professor.

  233. bostonboomer, Thanks. I’m reading.

  234. thanks masslib, saw him on you tube saying he worked as cl…nothing new here. i posted this before, but it is too funny….abt him inflating (not his tires) but his resume:


  235. purplefinn, on September 17th, 2008 at 6:40 am Said:

    I’m beginning to think that perhaps Obama is as smart as some people say he is. However, his knowledge is in the abstract. He likes theory to the exclusion of practice. That is why he emphasizes his community service so much. That’s his only hands on experience. Thus his lack of accomplishments.

    I’m surrounded by these types of “smart”people. They ain’t brilliant. They like the sounds of their own voices. They are academics, which isn’t a dis on all academics, my parents were once academics, but there are a lot of not-so-smart, “big thinkers” out there. As for his “community organizing”, the reason there are not many accomplishments is because registering votes for the Daly machine isn’t all that impressive. All politicians “community organize” ie register voters in their salad days. Hill was doing this down in TX when Obama was still in diapers. She wouldn’t exactly list it as her experience for the Presidency, but when it’s all you got…

  236. From a cursory read of Obama and Chicago education, he comes out as an idealist. Not very practical in working with all sides of an issue. Not results oriented.

  237. I don’t find him an idealist. I think he’s one cynical piece of work, and your garden variety empty suit.

  238. According to Salon, Palin decorated Wasilla City Hall to look like a bordello.

    Personally, I have no idea what a bordello looks like, so I’ll defer to the author.

  239. red lights? shag carpet?

  240. Well, you have to understand, myiq, Palin is white trash. Isn’t that what all these articles are about? She’s white trash and they need for us to know that. That’s why Biden made that whacky comment about BO being smarter than the voters. He’s was trying to warn them, you may like Palin, but she’s white trash.

  241. The video of McCain singing Barbara Streisand is up on No Quarter now, this will start your breakfast off right:


  242. Besides editing Palin’s speech with Gibson to make
    her come across as poorly as possible, ABC News also cut a KEY phrase in her remarks in a church. The
    media is selling BO like he was Bush or the Iraq War…
    follow the money….

    ABC omitted the words “Let us pray” that Palin

    spoke before “our leaders

    are sending our troops to do God’s will


  243. I rather watch a rerun of the Golden Girls then MSM

  244. purplefinn, on September 17th, 2008 at 6:40 am Said:

    I’m beginning to think that perhaps Obama is as smart as some people say he is. However, his knowledge is in the abstract. He likes theory to the exclusion of practice. That is why he emphasizes his community service so much. That’s his only hands on experience. Thus his lack of accomplishments.

    Obama is smart. Anyone who participated in the orchestration of the fraudulent primary has to be. We were all bamboozled. They planned every step of it all but. Cheat in the IOWA caucus then make it seem like Hillary had lost. Don’t let people ask why Edwards didn’t win. Then win NH(they were wrong on that), play race card before SC and then beat her on Supertuesday(He was supposed to win MA and CA). Cheat in caucuses and then primary over – won.
    They just never anticipated Hillary to fight as hard as she did. No wonder Samantha Powers said they were f**d when Hillary won TX, OH and RH. They had planned it all and she had to ruin the fun.

    Obama is just an opportunist. He uses the job he has to benefit him and his buddies. He has no pride in what he does. He stole Alice Palmer’s job but accomplished nothing.

    I also don’t think Obama is an idealist. He is a cynic. Hillary is the idealist of the two.

  245. Downticket: Baltar has core beliefs? I must have missed a season! His “mistake” killed billions of people. And it was not a “mistake.” All of his actions have been deliberate and selfish. Remember how he gave a nuclear bomb to a cylon? Who then detonated it killing thousands more? Baltar doesn’t seek knowledge – he seeks power. Or just the ability to be left alone to whore around, damn everyone else.

    I also don’t think Obama is stupid anymore than I think Bush is stupid. I think one of the greatest frauds Bush perpetrated on our country was to convince us he was stupid. And so while he laughed at his mangling of the English language he got everything he wanted as President – and it was not good. Obama may not be as effective if chosen President as Bush has been, but that’s because I don’t think Obama thinks in terms of actions: he’s an intellectual, his nose buried in books and ideas, without any clue about how to make ideas a reality. He talks a big game, but it’s all “just words” to him.

  246. Like Bush, I think Barry’s thing has always been to mess up and then you prove your love by cleaning up after him and promoting him up. The Press is the red flag. They want Barry very badly , there fore Barry is Bush 3.0.



  249. DCMediaGIrl and Violet Socks for FCC Chairman

  250. […] Posts Ponderables from the mail boxThe “Oh, Shit!” MomentScratching Post Wednesday: What kind of PUMA, and/or Clinton Democrat are […]

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