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This is interesting….

Commenter Felizarte recently posted this interesting tidbit:

Talk of replacing Biden with Hillary must be under discussion. I just got a follow-up survey from –William Arnone Phone: 212-773-3285 asking me if I would change my mind about voting for McCain if Biden was replaced with Hillary.

I wonder if someone could find out who this character is. I of course said NO, a hundred times.

I googled the phone number and found that Willam Arnone is listed on the publications page of the website of The National Academy of Social Insurance.

It turns out he is a pollster. From CQ Politics

Pollster William Arnone, a former Clinton adviser, has found that many of the New York senator’s backers are still at risk of defecting to McCain. He surveyed 328 of Clinton’s “most fervent” supporters during the week of the GOP convention in St. Paul and found that 77 percent planned to vote for Obama, 11 percent back McCain, and the rest are either undecided or plan to stay home.

Apparently Mr. Arnone is now surveying Clinton supporters to see if they would vote for Obama if Clinton replaced Biden on the ticket. I wonder who he is do this research for?

Please Discuss or use this as an open thread.

Update: William Arnone first worked in politics as an aide to Senator Robert F. Kennedy in New York. In May, he wrote this letter to the NYT, comparing Kennedy and Hillary Clinton:

To the Editor:

Your headline’s characterization of Hillary Rodham Clinton’s persona as “ruthless” (“Seeing Grit and Ruthlessness in Clinton’s Love of the Fight,” front page, May 5) brings back memories from 40 years ago about the presidential campaign of Robert F. Kennedy, for whom I worked.

He reacted to the “ruthless” label with a mixture of pain and amusement. Senator Clinton, whose New York Senate seat is the one that R.F.K. held and who was also a lightning rod in a presidential administration (his brother’s, her husband’s), has largely built her campaign on much of the same coalition that he was molding.

Her fighting spirit resembles his fierce determination to go against the odds in 1968 despite accusations that he, too, was dividing the party.

There are also similarities in Senator Barack Obama’s contrasting style and appeal, especially to upper-income voters and students, to that of the aloof, cerebral Senator Eugene McCarthy and his legions of young “new politics” followers, who by and large stayed away from the polls in November of that year.

Conscious of these eerie parallels, I pray that 2008 will not end up like 1968: a Democratic convention in disarray and the election of a conservative Republican.

William J. Arnone
Port Washington, N.Y., May 5, 2008

He also wrote this op-ed, which I now recall reading. Mr. Arnone is particularly interested in older voters:

In November, voters aged 44 to 62, will constitute at least one-third of the vote and will play a critical role in key battleground states. For Boomers, the election of 2008 might have been our last chance to give the nation a leader from our ranks, who might fulfill our world-changing promise of the sixties.

Many of us feel that, despite our size and our passions, we have not yet delivered on that promise.

Ironically, Senator Obama, who by and large denigrates the sixties, has put himself forward as precisely the type of candidate we thought we would generate.

Yet Senator Clinton, who is much more a product of the sixties, focused with more precision and depth on those issues that appeal most to this generation, such as retirement security, health care, economic justice, and human rights.

And it is the absence of substantive discussion of these issues that I’m also missing in the campaign thus far.


193 Responses

  1. Hillary would be a fool to take the VP slot now. It would just illustrate once again how this party is in such disarray and the Dems would lose bigger than anticipated. Not worth it for her and I don’t think she should serve under him anyway. If he goes down, let him go on his own hubris and judgment in choosing Biden.

  2. I doubt that 77% of Hillary’s most ardent supporters will vote for obama. . .they may say that to that pollster but, after how obama and his supporters treated hillary. . .”IT AIN’T GONNA’ HAPPEN!”

  3. Well, if he is a former Hillary backer it’s unlikely he is doing it on behalf of Obama’s campaign. My take on it is that he’s making a last-ditch effort to persuade Obama people to put Hillary on the ticket.

    The fact these rumors are flying are good in and of itself since they undermine Obama’s chances in November. They are testimony to the growing unease about the candidate.

  4. Pat,

    Of course I agree with you. I’d just like to know who this guy is working for. Obama met with Biden on Thursday, and after that Biden cancelled his appearances with Obama in NH. He hasn’t been heard from since. I think it would be pretty funny if Obama went to Clinton and begged her to be on the ticket after all. Then she could say “no” and leak it to the press. LOL!

  5. i still wouldn’t vote for obama with hillary on the ticket . .”NO WAY, NO HOW!” NO OBAMA!

  6. MikeJ,

    Pollsters usually don’t work for nothing. Someone is paying him for this survey. I’m just curious. Aren’t you?

    Personally, I wouldn’t vote for Obama even if Hillary were on the ticket, and I seriously doubt she would agree to do it.

  7. I’ve been keeping up with this at a couple of other blogs….Based on commentary it seems to be a colossal BLUNDER if Hillary agrees….Nothin can save Barky or the Dumbass Party…Too Late….imho…

  8. No Hillary without her being the President with Obama not on the ticket – period.

  9. My opinion is that Axelrod would be a fool to have acquiesced in the Biden selection, let alone stick with it.

    In my gut I regard the “switch” as a real possibility, if only on the grounds that Obama’s handlers can’t be so stupid as to realize that they blew it by allowing him to go with Biden.

  10. The debates will be the defining issue. Since the country is actually divided evenly between the two camps and the polls slide up and down daily, the debates will be the finishing touch to all this.

    Neither party is thrilled with their chosen candidates even if Palin has added some sparkle to McCain. As for Obama, his ship sailed somewhere in late February, early March. Not too many newbies climbing onboard since.

  11. To Whom It May Concern:

    If Hillary is not at the top of the ticket, I will be voting for McCain.

    Heckuva job, Howie.

  12. Sounds like Palin Panic setting in … if that is the case … too little too late .. it would be a collossal blunder indeed … the supreme VP FLIP FLOP
    The only ploy that might work would be that if Biden took ill , and even then no one would believe it

    This guy is probably working on his own …

  13. This is why Cindy is my personal favorite out of all of them:


  14. What I have read on these blogs for a few months now is BO tends to do a 4 day “finger in the air test” to see how well something is perceived. Is this one of them? The Rs are wondering if the rumor is true. I said on these blogs almost 2 weeks ago, if Biden comes up as “too ill” to run, it would work. They could sell it to MSM followers.

    I find it interesting that Bill met with BO on Thursday, Bill says BO will win; Biden, on Thursday says Hillary would be a better VP. Based on the 4 day “finger testing the wind” test, Monday/Tuesday will have a decision. It will be Biden is not “the one,” for whatever reason, or these rumors need to be put to rest, Biden is the VP candidate. Seems every “test” sent out to the public gets no more than 4 days of field play, at which point BO comes out with a statement one way or the other.

    Am I wrong?

  15. Typical media looking to make the Dems look like they are in dissarray and making bad decisions. There is always second guessing. No big deal. This time, the media is right.

  16. Republican Woman: You might have something there. Biden has been missing in action lately and we know Obama is somewhat on the ropes. Yet if they replaced him with Hillary it will only make him look weaker in the eyes of the public. Changing your mind as you get to the finish line is not wholesome. The nation would indeed reject that.

  17. I still believe Hillary told BO to take a flying leap from the start.

    She isn’t going there.

  18. biden is out there, they just aren’t covering him because he can’t open his mouth without saying something stupid. He was in Charlotte today

    Biden, campaigning in Charlotte, N.C., said Sunday that choosing a black candidate would be a “transformative event in American politics and internationally.”

    this is true, of course electing a woman would be too, so I’m not sure he has a point really.

  19. Republican Woman – I absolutely agree. Everything the Obama campaign does is totally predictable. They’re definitely floating the idea…

  20. I agree with the above comment.

  21. Rep: I think you’re dead on right. It’s interesting, though, that it’s 4 days. That feels a little slow given the countdown clock.
    Putting Hillary on the ticket would not fix what is wrong with the ticket. There is nothing presidential about the guy on top.

  22. Sex and the City is out in 9 days DVD. I can hardly wait to see it again.

  23. I hope that both Hillary and Bill read Obama the riot act when it came to the charges of ra*cism leveled against them and for allowing Hillary to be dissed regarding the Bobby Kennedy remarks. He deserves to go down for either one of those actions.

    Obama dug his hole. I just hope Bill and Hill handed him the shovel and not the rope.

  24. Gary – Yes, of course, only the guy with the extra melanin in his skin is transformative.

    The woman is a second-class citizen, as always.

  25. Re: bostonboomer,

    If he is a pollster himself, complete with a polling operation, then he can also finance the operation out of his own pocket, in order to pursue his political goal of putting Hillary on the ticket. Imagine the headlines if his poll finds that, surprise surprise, Hillary supporters want Obama to dump Biden and pick Hillary. This would be a foregone conclusion even if you and I have no intention of seeing Obama in the White House.

    In any event, the problem is not what Hillary supporters want, but rather the fact that Obama would likely rather step down himself than share the ticket with Hillary.

  26. Interest in Biden is so low that he’s supposed to have like three reporters on his plane. Logically, he’s a goner.

    On the other hand, the switch would smack of desperation and perhaps for that reason it may not happen. To read into the dark mind of Mr. Axelrod is, in the words of a certain candidate, “beyond my pay grade.”

  27. Gary,

    Thanks for that info. Still Obama did not let Biden come to NH with him, as planned. I have to believe Biden is in the doghouse because of what he said about Hillary the day be for Obama and he met privately. I wrote about this in a previous post.

  28. Still4Hill – Wait, wait – I see it now.

    They are going to replace Biden with Obama, and put Hillary on top!!! Then, we will all Unify in a dazzling rainbow of Unity!

    Waddaya mean it’s not February?!

  29. I’m with Carol — why would Hillary jump on this train wreck? She said he was un-electable and she was correct. The only “deal” Bill could have possibly offered was for the big O to step aside and let the winner take over. We already know that would never happen. Bien is going to go the distance, but – I’m betting he wishes he was as smart as all the others who turned the O down.

  30. I want to be clear. My interest in this is not because I want Hillary to be on the ticket. I am interested in seeing Barack Obama publicly and repeatedly embarrassed and humiliated. If he were to do this, I’d get my wish.

  31. Voting for a candidate just because he is black is as stupid as voting for a candidate just because they are a woman, or an Italian, or is cross eyed. Biden makes no sense with that remark. A woman president would be just as historical as a black man assuming the title. How out of step can one get?

  32. Well, good night all. Sleep tight and a great fuzzybear blessing to you!

  33. gary @ 11:22 LOL

    Actually, it’s funny. I think Obama is stupid, but he’s arrogant, and I can’t tolerate him

    Biden is also stupid, but he’s somehow more human, so I don’t resent him so much.

    I am just so sick of idiots in the White House!!

  34. Carol & PJ, I hope you’re both right. When I met hubby, he was a D and he was in love with Hillary (still is 14 years later LOL). Based on local politics, he’s now an R, but still loves Hillary. Since we’re pretty involved, this gets some “evil eye” looks, but who cares. I’ve just always thought she was a great leader, strong, and has good ideas. 2012 will be a very tough vote for me because I’ve personally always liked the fact that she dropped the “Bs” a long time ago, something some of my party’s candidates still are working on. My bad.

  35. Nice segway Carol.


  36. Palin called BO an idiot for not picking Hillary. That sealed the deal that she won’t be on the ticket.

    Hillary or McCain 2009

  37. I got the email from arnone. I don’t think this was a poll per say, but a tally of clinton big donors he knows. here is the full email, sorry if it is so long, bb, feel free to get rid of this comment if you want.

    Last week, I conducted a nationwide e-mail survey of supporters of Hillary Clinton’s Presidential candidacy. As an informal adviser to the Clinton campaign
    focusing on older voter strategy and issues, I developed a nationwide network of her supporters, many of whom are older women.

    Two questions were asked:

    If the election were held today, would you vote for the Democratic ticket of Obama-Biden or the Republican ticket of McCain-Palin?
    If you would vote for McCain-Palin, why?

    A total of 328 responses were received. Respondents included many of Senator Clinton’s most fervent supporters, some of whom were convention delegates. The bulk of responses were received after the conclusion of the Democratic convention and after the naming of Governor Sarah Palin as Senator John McCain’s Vice Presidential running mate, but prior to the conclusion of the Republican convention.

    The results:

    Obama-Biden: 254 (77.4%)

    McCain-Palin: 35 (10.7%)

    Undecided/Neither: 32 ( 9.8%)

    Write-In Clinton: 7 ( 2.1%)

    Overall, it appears that John McCain’s selection of Governor Palin as his running mate has backfired with a substantial portion of Senator Clinton’s supporters. The most common word used by those who responded in support of the Obama-Biden ticket was that McCain’s selection of Palin was “insulting” to women.

    Among those respondents who said that they would vote for the McCain-Palin ticket, or vote for neither ticket, or are undecided, there remains a residue of resentment over what they perceive as an unfair nominating process, as well as questionable treatment of Senator Clinton’s candidacy by Democratic Party leaders and others.

    The following are samples of comments received.

    From those now supporting the Democratic ticket of Obama-Biden

    Reaction to Palin

    Palin? What a joke!
    I can’t believe the Palin choice. How cynical and irresponsible.
    What was McCain thinking with that pick? Who IS she?
    I am insulted, as a Hillary supporter, that the Republicans would use such an obvious ploy to try to get me and 18 million other voters to vote for a woman….just because she is a woman. I would not vote for McCain…nor for Palin….today, tomorrow or the day after.
    Palin is just another irresponsible Republican sham.
    That woman running with McCain is a right-winger.
    It is insulting to women to think that a “PTA-type” woman from a small in population, unsophisticated state [where anyone could have won against the last do-nothing governor] is adequately prepared to become president or even vice-president. Will men vote for a man just because he is a man? PLEASE…women are not that ignorant.
    How dare anyone compare her (Palin) to Hillary.
    Republicans must be desperate to select this governor: “Governor, you’re no Hillary Clinton.”
    I am offended by the patronizing attitude that McCain has shown in picking an obviously unqualified woman (and there are some qualified Republican women–there must be some somewhere) as his running mate.
    Putting Palin on the Republican ticket does not get the women who understand the issues to automatically abandon the Democratic ticket. We are not that easily manipulated.
    His choice of Sarah Palin was the most cynical act imaginable.
    As a Hillary Clinton supporter I and all of my women friends would never vote for John McCain. I am appalled at the VP nomination he made. Now more than ever I am promoting Barack.
    McCain-Palin is a very scary combination.
    McCain choosing a completely unqualified person for VP (I believe simply because she’s a woman) insults the intelligence of the female voting public. If the strategy was to capture more women voters who may have been Hillary supporters, then I’m floored at the ridiculousness of it. Considering his age and the higher potential that a VP would be called to action during his term, I cannot fathom that making Palin a choice was a good decision. I don’t feel she could run our country if he were taken down by illness. If anything, I think he just effectively removed himself from consideration. While I would love to see a woman in office someday, I would like to see one that is qualified..like Hillary.
    Now that Palin has been chosen for the running mate, I wouldn’t even consider voting for McCain.
    As a Hillary supporter I am totally insulted with McCain’s pick. Does he think that a woman who is anti everything Hillary stands for with no experience will get women’s votes? I think not. Now because of McCain’s decision we have donated to the Obama campaign.
    When Senator Clinton did not win the Democratic nomination for President, nor was selected by Obama to be Vice President, I was heavily leaning toward voting for McCain. Now, since the speeches at the Democratic Convention and then McCain’s selection of a running mate, which I believe was based solely on the fact that she was a woman (token) and insulting to women voters, I am definitely voting for Obama.
    My decision not to vote for McCain was made easier with the announcement of his choice for VP. An exciting, engaging, and talented woman but too extreme on social issues and totally devoid of foreign policy experience. I have been watching closely to learn if she even has a world view but can’t find it.
    The McCain/Palin ticket angers me, as a woman. I find it patronizing, demeaning and insulting that the GOP could possibly underestimate the intelligence of American women everywhere, thinking we would even consider voting for a ticket just because one member of it has a uterus. Everything she stands for counters everything that those of us who admire and supported (and, yes, still support) Hillary stand for. The more I think about it, the angrier I get. And the more it has pushed me towards stronger support and stumping for the Obama-Biden ticket.
    I am a staunch Hillary supporter. There is no way under the sun that I would vote for McCain or Palin. She is an enemy of pro-choice and reproductive choice supporters like myself.
    I’m supporting Obama-Biden, even more so now that I know the Republican ticket. The key point to be made now is balance – of experience, perspective and vision – and Obama-Biden balances these three holistically and more harmoniously with what I would call proper distance between the two individuals. You could say McCain-Palin provides balance, but it’s in extremes (male/female, old/young, experienced/inexperienced, insider/outsider, etc) and superficial, as she’s just a representative of groups/views (women, mothers, “outsiders & mavericks”, etc) and doesn’t have the gravitas to provide any meaningful or compelling challenge, even if her views were different from McCain’s.
    On a superficial level, the selection of Palin is offensive because it appears to reduce the support of Hillary to a gender issue only. There is absolutely no way that those two women can be equated; they are polar opposites in their policies and to ignore that is to suggest that the women who supported Hillary were policy indifferent and only cared about gender. Having said that, gender mattered for me because, all else being equal and that is a critically important caveat, I would like to see how a talented woman handles the role that has been held by men for as long as it has existed, most of whom did at best a mediocre job. It is easy now to switch my support to Obama, even though I still have concerns about his lack of experience.
    Senator McCain has my respect for his service to our country, but I seriously question his judgment in his selection of Sara Palin as his running mate. His and the Republican Party’s spin on her selection is laughable and without substance. Gov. Palin appears to be a very nice woman, a bit of a maverick, a much more effective speaker than her running mate…but without the experience to become the Chief Executive of the United States of America.
    The single most energizing event was McCain’s choice of Palin as a running mate. Now I will campaign for Obama.

    Against McCain

    I would never vote for McCain – ever.
    No Way, No How, No McCain!!
    McCain’s reckless pick of a totally unqualified running mate confirms that he is not a serious candidate.
    When Senator McCain chose Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate, he reinforced our belief that he is not capable of making rational, independent decisions. He has sold out his country to Rush Limbaugh and his conservative cronies. McCain is no longer just a maverick; he is an irrational incompetent.
    We were all strong Hillary supporters but have the good sense not to vote for four more Bush-like years that have brought the U.S. close to bankruptcy. McCain has not offered any credible programs to cure what ails the U.S. economy and all he does is launch personal attacks against Obama because he has no credible alternatives to the disastrous policies of the Bush administrations. All we had to do is look at McCain’s extremely dismal voting record on humanitarian issues to make our decision.
    I would never, ever vote the McCain/Palin ticket.This is the 21st century and they don’t belong here.

    For Obama

    I also was a Hillary supporter right up to the last, but am glad to switch to Obama. I feel he is very well qualified to be our President. My main support for Hillary was due to wanting to see a woman as President before I die. I don’t know if I will have a chance now. Younger women and girls don’t know how hard our generation fought for the privileges that we have now, and there still is a long way to go.
    Obama gives me hope. He has the desire and the energy to turn this country around, and I believe he truly wants to help our middle and low-income classes and also get us out of debt.
    We were so impressed with Obama’s speech at the convention that many of our concerns were silenced so we would definitely vote and support the Democratic slate. Hillary and Bill were all the party could ask for and more.
    I had the chance to see what a great gentleman Obama really is with his kind, respectful comments after the news reports of Palin’s daughter’s pregnancy. Obama won me over.
    Yes, I was a Hillary supporter, and I wasn’t fond of Obama at first. But I am getting to like him; his ideas are similar to hers . And I always liked Biden!
    I wasn’t sure before the convention who I was going to vote for. I was considering McCain. But, the convention convinced me that Obama was the right choice.

    Democratic Party

    I am a lifelong Democrat because of the principles we stand for, not the individuals involved. I will of course for Obama/Biden ticket.
    The Democrats could have nominated Ed the Talking Horse and I would have voted for him. I care about the Constitution, civil rights, economic justice, and a bunch of other things, so it’s a no-brainer.
    I will be strongly supporting Obama and Biden because they will carry forward the work of the Democratic Party. There is so much to do, to undo the damage of the Bush-Cheney years. Also, the 2008 platform is very progressive and shows tremendous cooperation between the Obama and Clinton forces… It would be a gross insult to Sen. Clinton to support the McCain-Palin ticket.
    A united party is the only way that we can overcome the travesty of the Bush-Cheney years. Democrats must take the White House as well as maintain Democratic control over both houses of Congress.

    Loyalty to Clinton

    I like to tell people I’m voting for the Obama/Biden/Clinton/Clinton team vs the McCain/Palin/Bush/Cheney team. Look, we can’t criticize Palin on gender or experience BUT we can go after her for her stands on issues. I’m a Hillary delegate who voted for Hillary at the convention BUT I wear a button now that says “Hillary Supports Obama and So Do I !!!”
    I am an ardent supporter of Senator Clinton – of both Clintons, in fact, since they appeared on the national political scene. I am not a supporter of Barack Obama, but I will vote for the Democratic ticket, since to do otherwise will be an insult to our country and to the Clintons.


    I am appalled that one could switch from Hillary’s ideals and standards for women to someone who wants to teach creationism, abolish abortion and might be in a position to appoint 3 Supreme Court Judges. We would lose the court for 30 years. I am assuming those who are able to make that switch are either not aware of the issues or could care less in what condition they leave this country.
    McCain/Palin are completely on the opposite side of anything Hillary stands for and would destroy many of the rights for women that Hillary and women of our age have achieved.
    Women voting for the McCain-Palin ticket is just like chickens voting for Colonel Sanders.
    HRC hit my heart when she asked, “Did you just do it for me?” Of course I didn’t and she reminded me of that. The Democratic ticket of Obama – Biden is the only choice if we are ever going to undo the damage of the Bush years. As a devout Hillary Clinton supporter there is no way I could tolerate Sarah Palin as a “stand-in” for women’s issues.
    No matter how upset I am that Hillary is not the nominee, never in my dreams would I even consider voting for John McCain. Sarah Palin knows how to fire up a crowd, but that is not evidence of qualifications for the presidency. Her total lack of understanding of and concern for the issues that are so critical in these times: the Iraq War, Afghanistan, the Middle East, the economy, health care, and the loss of respect George Bush has achieved for America – is frightening.
    I will vote for the Obama-Biden ticket because of the Democratic platform.
    It’s a no-brainer for liberals, especially with the Supreme Court in the balance.

    From those now supporting the Republican ticket of McCain-Palin

    Reaction to Palin

    I was impressed with the speech Palin gave at the announcement. She came across as intelligent and willing to stand up for a change.
    I believe that Palin has the fighting attitude and pragmatism to be a real benefit to this Country, and based on her performance in Alaska, I think that she respects the rule of the Constitution and will not impose her personal beliefs on all of us.
    It’s time we had a woman in the White House. I wanted it to be Hillary (I still think she is the best person for the job), but since that option has been taken from us, I’ll vote for the first woman vice president instead. Palin has the potential to understand and represent my interests as a woman/working mother. Neither Obama nor Biden have said anything that make me believe that they understand any of the roles of women. Palin’s work on certain ethics committees is impressive and speaks of a potential to avoid “easy” answers that fail ethical decision-making tests – hopefully she’ll carry what she learned there to the White House with her. Additionally, Palin’s life story is somewhat similar to my own, and it is exciting to think that someone so similar to myself could rise to the level of vice president, or even president. I honestly didn’t think McCain could do anything that would convince me to vote for him; however, his choice of running mate did.
    As #2 of the ticket Palin has more executive & life experience than the #1 of the Democratic Ticket, Obama.
    Because McCain and Palin have a history of getting things done. Also, they both come across as warm and caring politicians that have worked with the other party to accomplish their goals, like Hillary. And Sarah Palin is pretty impressive, like Hillary.

    For McCain

    I want the top of the ticket to be a proven leader with experience, a patriot, and someone strong enough not to bow under pressure – qualities sorely lacking in Obama.
    McCain proved that he is “his own person” and went with an extremely intelligent strategy and showed us Democrats that he and his wife are not intimidated by an extremely intelligent, capable person, who happens to be a woman, to run on his ticket. He sat and waited for us Democrats to make fools of ourselves by not supporting Hillary. For it was obvious that if Hillary would have won the nomination she would BEAT McCain.
    Here’s to John McCain and Sarah Palin — I’ve already sent them a small donation; and, I’d even be willing to put in some time for them as a volunteer!
    Although I am a Democrat through and through, I am leaning toward voting for McCain-Palin. I disagree with many of McCain’s policies, but maybe with a Democratic Congress he will have to compromise. McCain has the experience needed to be a Commander-in-Chief. Also, McCain understands the importance of recognizing Hillary’s 18 million supporters.

    Loyalty to Clinton

    Absolutely stunned that Senator Hillary Clinton was never vetted by the Obama Veep Team. To me it reflects hubris and a disdain for the beliefs of over 18 million Americans, from all across this country, who cast their voting preference for Senator Clinton and the Solutions for America core values. It’s like our votes are “disposable” and “we’ll go along anyway.” How unDemocratic is that?
    The better candidate had been passed over twice. Go McCain!

    Democratic Party

    I am still not happy about the DNC’s decisions on Florida’s primary. While I will vote Democratic for the other races and hope for (and expect) a Democratic Congress, I am not unhappy about the idea of a different party as executive and another party controlling Congress.
    With the rampant fraudulent conduct of the DNC/Obama in the caucus states…I truly cannot support the Democratic ticket.
    Democrats snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. In a year that should have been the Democrats’, the Republicans became the change agents.
    I would vote for McCain-Palin because I believe that the Democratic party needs to be sent a message that we will not fall in behind them after the most corrupt primary election in history. I believe the Democratic party and its leadership need to be reminded that we are democrats, are independent, and that we are not lemmings marching to the sea. I look at voting for McCain as the only method I have to let the DNC know just how badly they have behaved.
    I want changes in the way the party nominates their candidate or I’m leaving the party. So lose, reform and regroup. No Dems this election!
    The DNC had a shot with a woman who was better qualified and they blew it. The manipulation at the DNC convention was blatant.

    From those who are undecided or supporting neither ticket

    Reaction to Palin

    At this moment, I am not voting for either candidate…I was appalled at the arrogance and sexism of the initial response to Palin’s candidacy.
    If I were to vote for the McCain/Palin ticket today, it would be a revenge vote with a salute to McCain for a slick move. It would also be in recognition of Governor Palin’s dedication to reform, and to the end of corruption within her own Party.
    As of now I’m not voting for either. I think the Republicans were very clever with the Palin nomination. They did what they needed to do for their base, maverick status and not a Washington insider. And a woman. No they won’t win over pro-choice female Hillary supporters, but not every Hillary supporter is pro-choice. And many Hillary supporters are angry at the Party for how they treated Hillary or allowed her be treated. If Obama’s party allows Palin to be treated in the same manner, with the same condescending tone, the same disdain, the same sexism, the same silence toward the media, they can lose support.
    I was seriously considering voting for McCain before he picked Sarah Palin. However, I cannot possibly vote for anyone that opposes Choice, Gun Control, Environmental Control, Oil Drilling, Animal Protection (from extinction), Evolution, etc.etc., just to mention a few things I learned about her so far. As much as it pains me to vote for Obama after everything that the DNC did to Hillary, I will probably vote for Biden. Or I might not vote at all. I have not decided yet.

    Leaning McCain

    My choices are McCain or don’t vote. Incidentally, I have only voted for two Republicans since I started voting in 1956.

    Loyalty to Clinton

    We were Republicans before Hillary, and changed our party affiliation because of her. At this point, we do not like Obama, nor McCain.
    I watched every evening of the convention that was televised. I cried when Hillary gave her speech. I still feel the Democratic Party has just made the biggest mistake in its history. But, I listened to Senator Obama and was still totally undecided as to who to vote for – I am not thrilled with him nor am I thrilled with Biden. I felt that McCain’s decision to have Palin as his VP is totally trying to appeal to the women who voted for Hillary. BUT little does he realize that we voted for Hillary because we felt she had the strongest solutions to the problems this country is facing today and that is why we are still uncertain about Obama.

    Democratic Party

    I will sit this one out. I came to this decision when Obama was selected by the Rules Committee of the DNC.
    If the election were held today, I would likely drop off the Presidential contest. I do not want to condone or endorse the, at least, two injustices present: 1) the conduct of the DNC and the Obama campaign during the primary and nomination process, and 2) the incompetent and derelict policies of the current administration. I will focus instead on good down-ticket Democrats and judges.
    I am excited about the McCain-Palin ticket and waiting to hear what they have to say before I make a decision on McCain. At least the Republicans had sense enough to put a women on the ticket. I was a strong supporter of Senator Clinton and can be a strong supporter of another strong woman. If I vote for McCain, it will be because the Democrats have shown that are no different than Republicans when it come to women.
    The Democratic Party did not act democratically throughout the primary season and at the convention. Therefore, I will fight to reform the Party. I will put principle before Party and vote down-ticket only. Likewise, I cannot in good conscience vote for the Republican ticket because I simply do not believe in their policy positions. In almost all instances, they are contrary to what I believe would be best for the country. Having said that, if the withholding of a vote for the Democrats leads to a Republican victory in November, I am prepared to accept that as long as we have a strong contingent of good Democrats in the House and Senate to provide for the checks and balances set out in the Constitution.
    I probably would go with McCain-Palin, although I am not yet firm on that. It would be to send a message to the DNC that the primary process should not be manipulated to achieve a desired outcome, that democratic principles should rule the party.
    Until the Democratic ticket reaches out to the other 18 million voters that chose Hillary as the electable candidate in November and offers something more than platitudes and pithy statements borrowed from other speeches, they are going to have to pull this one out on their own.
    I will not vote for either. I will blank the top of the ticket and vote for down ticket Democrats. Seems to me that, if enough people do that across the country, so that there is a major discrepancy between the total Democratic vote and the vote for President, this is the only sensible way to send a message to the Democratic Party that their anti-democratic actions will not be tolerated.

    From those who say they will write in Senator Clinton’s name in November

    I will, as will many other Hillary supporters, write in Hillary’s name (even if that leads to McCain winning). I think, and it is only my opinion, that she was threatened by way of her campaign debt and important Senate committee posts to speak at the convention and then to announce New York State support for Obama by acclamation.
    I was very very proud of the Clintons. They both went beyond what they were asked to do. I’m still very unhappy with the way the Democratic National Committee treated Hillary.
    I love the idea of Palin, especially when you hear her talk about energy. I applaud McCain’s gutsiness in his choice. But I can’t vote McCain because of his party and the hold that the religious conservatives have on them.

    * * * * *

    As always, I welcome your comments and questions.

  38. Carol,

    That is what I think too. There were many rumors at the time that BO and Hillary met in DC at Feinstein’s house. One was that BO had offered Hillary the VP, and she told him to forget it. I think it happened.

  39. Gary,

    Thanks for that. How did you get on his e-mail list? Felezarte said he received a telephone call from Arnone tonight. So he is doing another survey by phone.

  40. I’m tired of these people in Galveston griping about staying instead of evacuating. They should be arrested.

  41. bb, I’ve been getting emails from him pretty regularly since at least may. He was pushing the unity ticket pretty hard, I think that might be what he is up to with this. One thing though, this doesn’t seem like a scientific poll in the least…just anecdotal evidence from people he worked with on the campaign

  42. Gary: A truly “transformative effect in American politics” would be electing someone qualified to be POTUS. That ain’t Obama.

  43. Republican Woman: I was a Hillary fan from way back but it was based largely on her accomplishments and her ideas. Some here came to Hillary after Edwards and there are those who had once leaned toward Obama but became disillusioned. But mostly are support was based on her policies, her clear headedness, her ability to stand toe to toe, her tenacity, her graciousness, and her willingness to go the whole distance because of us. This is something we came to admire wholeheartedly. It has nothing to so with her being a female.

    Obama is the antithesis of Hillary. None of us can tolerate him as you have probably come to understand. But it is based on is lack of experience, his unqualifications, his penchant for changing his positions, his willingness to do whatever it takes, and our displeasure with his illegitmacy as the nominee. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin.

    Had he possessed her qualities and qualifications we would be championing his win. Since he does not, most of us here are unable to support a win. But gender and race have absolutely nothing to do with our position. We only ask for the best and the brightest and denied that we look elsewhere.

  44. I wonder how he got Felezarte’s phone number? It’s too bad Felizarte seems to have gone away for the night. Maybe he/she will comment tomorrow.

  45. Charles,

    Do you know how many times Plouffe has said that? I’d guess at least 10 times so far.

  46. Carol, on September 14th, 2008 at 11:19 pm Said:
    I still believe Hillary told BO to take a flying leap from the start.

    She isn’t going there.


    I believe the same thing.

  47. Those who chose to stay are putting the rescuers at risk as well.

  48. BTW, McCain is at 50% today in the Rasmussen tracking poll.

  49. Someone over at NQ provided this link to an article Mr. Arnone had written some time ago.

    Guest Op-Ed: My Hillary Dejection
    by William Arnone


  50. I can’t analyze Obama, but his actions often are passive-aggressive. I think he is punishing Biden for the Hillary mention, and perhaps not taking enough arrows to protect The One. Biden will be back full force in a couple of days, and Obama will be done with the ‘I’m ignoring you because you forgot my dog’s birthday’ punishment.

  51. Pat – Eddy, Piper, Trig and I require our Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates to be able to communicate beyond finger gestures and 2 syllable sentences.

    Just saying.


  52. LOL! WordPress has this listed as a “featured blog.”

  53. Parentofed,

    I think so too. I seriously doubt if Obama would drop Biden from the ticket. In the first place, he would never admit he made a mistake. In the second place, look what happened to George McGovern when he dropped his VP.

  54. Charles- I have tried your site at least three times today and I can’t access it. What’s up???

  55. Charles, I’ve been there today. Am I the only one? I don’t think so.

  56. Carol: The commune is filling up down there. Must be a drain on the food bill and resources. As for Eddy, he called for Obama to set aside one whole day an come to PA to the small towns to win over the rural areas who did not officially support him in the primary. I would tell Eddy to clamp it shut.

  57. Count me among those who think Hillary told Obama to take a flying leap during the meeting at Diane’s. I hated all those derisive sneers from the media concerning Hillary begging him for the VP position, and he refused. What poppycock! There’s no way she asked for that knee-bend, and I bet the Obama campaign released that rumor to build him up.

  58. can you believe this:

    The vice presidential nominee enjoyed Tina Fey’s spoof of her, according to her spokeswoman: “Especially because the governor has dressed up as Tina Fey for Halloween.”

    how can a religious fanatic conservative woman dress up as tina Fey for Halloween? they actually dress up for halloween? ithought that really religious people dont dress up for halloween

    i’m confused (snark)

  59. Charles, I was at your site this afternoon.

  60. Charles, used Firefox and got in. Must be something with my machine. Thanks.

  61. madamab: a dazzling rainbow of Unity!

    Oh, my eyes!!

  62. i agree with this woman who is probably a right wing conservative, not sure


  63. parentofed: I picture Hillary doing a Bette Davis imitation and throwing a drink in his obnoxious face when he asked her to consider being his running mate. Then she showed him the door. The meeting only lasted for about an hour so really, how much could have been discussed outside of the plea and a resounding NO?

  64. Piper, Trig and I just told Eddy to be back in time to help with the Christmas Trees.

    BTW, now they all want their own trees too.

    I don’t know what Ryan is going to think about this.

  65. Maybe someone could run a doubtlessly more successfully poll:

    Would you vote the Democratic ticket for President in November if Obama was replaced with Senator Hillary Clinton?

  66. IIRC, switching VPs at this juncture is an impossibility, b/c some states have already begun printing ballots for early voting. Afraid Barky is stuck with Biden. Besides, does anyone really think Hillary wants to get stuck with Barky as her boss? Bwahahaha.

  67. Pat: They probably had to spend a full half-hour fluffling up pillows for The One, and making sure he had good lighting.

  68. How many days until Obama has to produce all the documents requested in the discovery order last Friday? Do weekend days count? Are they due on the 22 or the 26? Seems a life time away.

    If something happened to both Biden and Obama could Hillary regain momentum? It might be just the sort of challenge Hillary would relish, But might it be better for her to face Palin after four years rather then now?

  69. Eddy has already committed to me that we do our Christmas caroling together this year. Sorry, the kiddos will just have to hang their stockings all by themselves by the chimney with care.

  70. KarolinaNYC,

    I’d like to see that too.

  71. The boat has sailed, The last chance Barry had to put Hill on the ticket was the comvention . Now it would look too stupid even for Dem elite . IMO Hill wants no part of this train wreck .

  72. Charles,

    I have been to your site today too.

  73. Charles, I too was at your site but did not leave a comment.

  74. Charles- Your site shows briefly but then I get sent to a gateway search site.

  75. For all of those who think Hillary would join the ticket now as VP:

    How many people jumped at the opportunity to board the Titanic as it’s last deck was still above water?

    Hillary doesn’t have a life jacket big enough for that excellent adventure!

  76. kat5,

    McGovern replaced his VP in 1972. Besides, are you saying that if a VP candidate died, the state would refuse to put a replacement on the ballot? I don’t think so.

  77. I think a lot of the hillary supporters voting for obama are soft, not hard supporters of BO…

    as far as that polling:

    I also think there’s something like the Bradley Effect (though not at all based on hidden racism) happening – it’s under-reporting their feelings for fear of being seen as a bad Democrat…even if they know they will vote McCain/Palin.

  78. I would only consider boarding the Titanic if Leonardo diCaprio was there. Other than that, not so much.

  79. Bit behind — Carol — Sex and the City DVD — that’s the only thing that got me through the May 31st RBC meeting — we got up at 5:00 AM and went to Warrior Ginny’s house to watch the event — all excited – by the end of the day we were so depressed we went to the movies — I ended up watching it 3 times within 10 days — only thing that cheer me up. I am buying it day 1 !!! Thanks for the heads up !!!!

  80. My telephone number must have been provided by the Hillary campaign because that was the only place I left it. Early during the primaries, I signed up to be part of the senior advisors group. That’s probably how I got included in the group. I am NOT however, a significant financial contributor. I was strictly in the $50’s category, although I sent in a contribution about ten times. I did not speak with him tonight; just had an e-mail to call. Maybe I will give him a call tomorrow.

  81. For whatever reason, Obama always does worse than the polls say. It happened in state after state that held Primaries. The big exception was NC where the polls showed a tighter race for Clinton than the actual result.

  82. I agree with you carol!!! Hillary is not about to jump aboard a sinking campaign.

  83. epicurious,

    That could very well be. And Obama underperformed vs. the polls all through the primaries. Between the people who don’t want to admit they aren’t voting for a black candidate and the secret McCain Democrats. Obama will need to be up in the polls by about 15% over McCain in order to be sure of winning in November.

  84. bb – is Biden dying? I guess so, he is older than McCain. I guess that’s why they are so heavily playing up McCain’s age, they intend to place a hit on Biden and pretend he died of old age.

  85. PJ: I won’t argue with you. I was raised a D and became a R b/c of Jimmy Carter. I didn’t support Bill Clinton, I liked Ross Perot, but I was impressed by Hillary Clinton when she hit the White House. She never backed down, she had great ideas, and she was more “man” enough to stand up to the “men.” I was still surrounded by Ds who said who does she think she is, I said she was a woman with more “Bs” than the men she deals with. I never thought it was because she was a woman, but I always thought she was a strong woman with ideas that she stood behind. Hubby admires strong women (we’re going on our 10 year anniversary LOL), and politically, Hillary was the one and only thing we agreed on when we met. Her positions, her strength, her demeanor. The fact that she was somewhat fiscally conservative, but believed in promoting programs that helped the poor out of poverty, not reliant on poverty. That communities were responsible for their environment (it takes a village), not government police forces playing gestapo tactics.

    I don’t recall Hillary saying “corporate bailout” at the expense of communities. I believe that communities need help (i.e., Katrina), not corporations (i.e., Haliburton or United Airlines or now the banks).

    I suppose this is why I say I’m moderate. I don’t believe in government bailouts for business, but I do believe in assistance to the poor. I don’t believe in higher taxes to support corporate bailouts, but believe if we got rid of that, we would be able to help communities become prosperous. No benefits to offshore corporations, but credits to “onshore” corporations that create jobs. But I don’t believe in the theory of how to catch a wild pig by convincing the consumers that we just give away the bank with no work.

  86. BZero’s campaign did another dumbo move this afternoon. On Fox News Sunday Rove said that both campaigns had edged over the truthiness line, but said it in two sentences. The BZero campaign jumped on the McCain sentence and has blasted it out to everyone, their grandmothers and their dogs.

    Rove doesn’t make mistakes and BZero’s campaign fell for it, they can’t help themselves — gave Rove a soapbox for the week to call them gutter snipes who have gone back on their word of being transformative. Dunce caps all around.

    Politico has the story up.

  87. Felizarte,

    Thanks for posting that information. That probably is how this guy got your name and phone number. That also means that this is probably not a scientific survey.

  88. gary–Thanks for the full post of the email. Very discouraging that we are up against so many in the Dem party that think there was nothing wrong with the Dem candidate being selected rather than elected. Many of their comments also indicate a “me” centered attitude in their thinking as to why McCain chose Palin. No Democratic ladies, he didn’t choose Gov. Palin primarily because she was a woman; he chose her to appeal to the evangelical base. Being a woman was a useful bonus, not an insult to Hillary. Can’t believe that these contributors/delegates are supposed to be representing voters when they seem so oblivious to political realities.

  89. McCain is taking over in Florida even though polls show them close. Since the Palin pick McCain yard signs are appearing all over.

  90. Charles, we don’t use sitemeter here. I have a version of it at Eat4Today but it’s never recorded a single visit. I don’t get a lot of visitors there, but I know it’s more than zero.

    WordPress.com doesn’t allow javascript so we can’t use the regular sitemeter.

  91. Obama also forced Biden’s son to swear off lobbying for now.


    Mr. Obama’s presidential campaign said Friday that Mr. Biden had stopped lobbying for nine clients shortly after his father was chosen last month as Mr. Obama’s running mate. But the campaign did not announce that he had given up lobbying until Friday after reporters asked questions about his recent work for a couple under federal investigation over online gambling.

  92. Charles, I was there too.

    As for those awful cliches from the Obama campaign, I’ve had it. Are they now going to “make lemonade from lemons”? Pul-eeze.

  93. poe: Obama will be done with the ‘I’m ignoring you because you forgot my dog’s birthday’ punishment.
    Aside from the fact that I agree with you that O is punishing Biden for the Hillary remark, I feel obliged to restate my position often stated here.

    The guy doesn’t HAVE a dog. Americans don’t elect people without pets.

  94. I remember getting emails from this Arnone guy all through the primaries. He was always pushing the unity ticket. I would always answer the emails by telling him I would never vote for BO no matter who his VP was, but I would still get the emails. If he is conducting surveys now, I have not been called, but neither have I recieved an email from him in about two months.

  95. Republican Woman: There are areas that you and I have met on common ground. I do believe that the deregulations were what led us to where we are today. The little guy, you and me, are being asked to bail out the mortgage holders who were either sold this bank notes on false premises or who themselves lied about their financial situations and whose credit went unchecked because everyone involved was getting something for nothing. The same with the S and Ls back in the 80’s.

    Personal responsibility has disappeared and the fallout is placed on the backs of the federal government. Enough is enough. But without the watchdogs, this will continue until we are all bankrupt while a few fatcats reap the spoils.

  96. Newt was pushing Palin in April. And he continued to talk about her as a likely choice because of her Maverick personality.

    I have some Will Ferrell movie on. He graduated from USC. They are using the campus for the movie. I swear, they use the campus for tons of movies.

    It’s time for nite, nite. Trig and Piper get up really early. They have gotten use to watching Joe in the Morning. They don’t really care for Chuck, Andrea, ………………………………..

  97. Carol: **&&^&%%$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *(*&()(*&^&%!!!!!!!!!

  98. Despite record fundraising in August, Obama is still cash poor.


    In July, Obama spent $57 million — more than any prior month and more than the $51 million he collected that month. A large chunk of that cash went to the salaries of his expanding field operation.

    His expenses for August were a bit higher because of the extensive advertising he aired that month — including a run of commercials during NBC’s broadcast of the Beijing Olympics.

    The lengthy primary robbed Obama of a chance to save some money by engaging in coordinated campaign activities, such as sharing office costs and doing joint mailings with other Democratic candidates running for federal and state offices. In New Hampshire, for instance, the Obama campaign had to lease its own headquarters in Manchester because the already-established coordinated campaign headquarters didn’t have enough room for the newcomers.

    In contrast, McCain has had months to lay the groundwork for a fully coordinated effort between his Virginia operations and the RNC.

  99. Gordon Brown seeks Barack Obama aides to help beat David Cameron
    Gordon Brown is to call on Barack Obama’s aides to help fight the Conservative challenge at the next election, it has been claimed.

    After an official complaint, the British Embassy contacted Mr McCain’s aides to stress that the Prime Minister was not endorsing either candidate.

    It is now claimed Mr Brown is hoping to sign up members of Mr Obama’s team after the American election in November.

    Someone notify the ‘foreign’ government of Brown because he thinks Obama is winning! First, they do a scortched earth policy on Hillary using sexism and misogyny. When McCain selects Palin they start a new on her, then demand that Hillary go out and fix it: “Hillary, you put those 18 Million Cracks in that ceiling (some woman is climbing threw one of the cracks) and you had better fix them so Obama can sail home”!

    Now Charlie Gibson chops up Sarah Palin’s interview, leaving the appearance of a less than sharp answers and ‘Hawkish’ war monger…after a war with Russia…when in fact she didn’t say that!

    ABC News Edited Out Key Parts of Sarah Palin Interview
    By P.J. Gladnick (Bio | Archive)
    September 13, 2008

  100. @ b’boomer – McGovern replaced Eagleton w/Shriver before the third week of August, which, I assume, allowed plenty of time for early-voting ballots to be printed. We’re now in mid-September… Also, there must be some provision somewhere which covers the, um, untimely death or disablement of a v-p candidate – matters beyond the control of the presidential pick. It would be sort of interesting to know the procedures on this one. Never thought about it before.

  101. bb – I like the lipstick.

  102. BB, I’ll definitely call Mr. Arnone tomorrow and ask him why he is conducting the survey. I will give a full report on whatever info I gather. Perhaps HeidiLi has information on him because he mentioned the Denver Group in the article he wrote that was published in NQ before.

  103. Republican Woman: you describe my views pretty well too.

    I think Joaniebone called me a ‘true independent’ before – so maybe I never counted as a dem anyway. I’m sure beginning to wonder if I just didn’t pay enough attention in the past. I always swore I’d vote for Hillary if she ever ran… even 16 years ago.

  104. With the tag of flip-flopper hanging from his nose (FISA et al?), I can’t imagine that BO would be so dumb *ss as to flip-flop on his choice of VP. Then again, BO has already proven that when it comes to dumb *ass he’s a pro.

    Anyway, as far as political knowledge, care for others, hard work, spunk when needed, and amazing poise even under the worst circumstances, Hillary is light years ahead of BO. So, unless she’s the nominee for president I can’t imagine why she would play second fiddle.

    Hillary/Steele 2012!

  105. Larry Sinclair – Biden’s Delaware, Capitol Corruption


    I fell asleep listen to Matt (sorry matt, too tired these days) interview Larry Sinclair and missed his latest legal comments. Anyone know if he spoke about the above video that has been posted around by a blogger ‘miranda’? Anyone know?

  106. The same speculation is going on over at noquarter about Hillary replacing Biden. I wondered if it was a trial balloon there.
    As to Hillary accepting the veep slot I think her party loyalty comes before her personal ambitions. If she thought it would put a Democrat in the White House, she would do it. Even though it ruins her chances for 2012.

  107. Red Eye is doing a funny on Sarah.

  108. “bostonboomer, on September 15th, 2008 at 12:07 am Said:

    Despite record fundraising in August, Obama is still cash poor.”
    That is why the $66 million August number is a disaster for the Obama campaign. Their spending is out of control and they need to raise >$100 million per month for the GE campaign in order to have parity with the GOP.

  109. PJ, while on “opposite sides” (although I’m not so sure of that), I absolutely agree with you.

  110. wonder if they’re “trial ballooning” it over at the Obamablogs…

    only because I think for Hillary to make that decision – it would depend on whether she’ll be a lightening rod again with the Clinton Deranged media and the bots, ready to blame her if BO loses…

  111. Charles: I read somewhere that the campaign is asking volunteers to bring their own office supplies.
    And I read somewhere on one of these threads today that they are selling the bumper stickers, lawn signs, buttons instead of giving them away.

    SO! OBAMA AIRLINES now boarding for Fantasyland. Bring your own sandwich. Oh, and bring another one for Barack, in case he gets hungry.

    What the heck kind of campaign?????

  112. Felizarte,

    Thank you. Based on what we’ve learned, it does seem as if he is probably doing these surveys on his own. But it would be interesting to talk to him. He might pass on some useful info.

  113. “mawn”
    He cheated on the early vote count in NC/that’s why it was close.
    He started the day with the same “lead he ended the day with”.
    Similar in ID. He knew that was “high-noon” for him with the dem elites. They were ready to “jump ship” depending on the May 6th results. That to me is why they did the RBC shame when they did right before June 3rd. If Hillary did what she had to do on that day in those states they were going to her not him.
    Alas…. the fraud was completed , he gave up everything he could & he was rewarded.
    Remember Sat. May 31st Obama announced out of nowhere he was leaving his church…then they gave him his now famous gift.
    **TOP of TICKET
    I’m with “K of NYC & some others”!
    Night PUMA-land

  114. The Fifty State Strategy sounds good on paper, if you don’t waste campaign money on styrofoam Greek columns.

  115. For the people who can’t sleep..here is in on “drilling” from Scientific American. My reading of it says that the push for opening more off shore sites is another Republican/Oil company scam and we get screwed.

    The bottom line is that Oil company stock appreciation is tied to the amount of oil reserves that a company has. If they have more reserves and don’t pump a barrel, stock goes up. Goes with what Charles was say about execs getting stock options rather than cash.

  116. he is a cheater -check out how he inflated his resume – kinda of funny


  117. Saw this at pumapac

    Guess Who I Am?

    I am under 45 years old,
    I love the outdoors,
    I hunt,
    I am a Republican reformer,
    I have taken on the Republican Party establishment,
    I have many children,
    I have a spot on the national ticket as vice president with less than two years in the governor’s office.

    Did you guess?

    I am Teddy Roosevelt in 1900.

  118. He may have inflated his resume again recently. Managed to get put on 8 more committees since he got the nom in June.

    feb o8:




    I don’t know if it’s common to suddenly get put on a bunch of new committees at once or how it generally works. A couple of those committees only had one person on them when I checked in June (Biden or Dodd) but they seem to have filled out. I couldn’t find a more recent archive then the Feb 08 one. He’s now on more committees than McCain and I think a couple more than Hillary also.

  119. birdgal: Coincidentally, TR V got married yesterday
    It was in the NY Times today. IIRC both he and his dad TR IV work at Lehman.

    The item left out – TR succeeded to the Presidency when McKinley was assassinated.

  120. bboomer — oh boo hoo! IACF still.

    And how does that example show that it was the lengthy primary at fault in NH? It sounds like he showed up with far too many people and couldn’t fit (or, like moving the DNC to Chi-town, wanted to control the space anyway).

    I SWEAR TO GAWD! Don’t they teach basic writing skills anymore?

    Paragraphs: Lead thesis sentence. Followed by 2-3 sentences in support of thesis, that connect to your lead sentence Concluding sentence.

    Or is it just basic logic they’re missing?

    I just can’t stand it.

  121. Maybe I have ingested too much anti-Obama kool-aid but the “Lying King” video is dead on.

  122. Here are a couple of interesting links. Because I’m a subscriber, I don’t know if some of the articles are behind the pay wall

    Democratic activists should stop digging by Clive Crook at FT

    From the WSJ:

    McCain Team Hustles Amid Rising Interest

    The campaign is expanding the number of Pennsylvania offices to 30 from 14, and its Ohio offices to more than 35 from 18. The formerly lean McCain campaign and Republican National Committee payrolls have doubled in size in recent weeks, an expansion that can be attributed in large part to Gov. Palin joining the team.

  123. Replacing Biden now would be disastrous for BO — it would go to judgment. It would look weak, prevaricating, and opportunistic. He would be torn to shreds for it, and rightly so.

    I am less sure that BO is down and out — boy, the corporate media want to get him in the White House badly — but he is in a deteriorating situation. I still think he could still be installed as president, but I will say that now, I believe it will be a weak, faltering victory and BO would enter a weak, faltering presidential term. His brand is now very tainted indeed.

  124. “Overall, it appears that John McCain’s selection of Governor Palin as his running mate has backfired with a substantial portion of Senator Clinton’s supporters.”

    How has the Palin backfired….I mean, he’s supposedly polling Clinton donors….what do you expect to happen. Hey, McCain-Palin got something like 10% which is interesting….but doesn’t reflect “backfiring.”

  125. vivienne westwood,

    Thank you for that fascinating link! Someone needs to do a post on that. It doesn’t surprise me one bit though. Barack is a compulsive liar and exaggerater.

  126. Alice: It would look weak, prevaricating, and opportunistic
    Pretty much is what it is – what he is.

  127. still4Hill: The item left out – TR succeeded to the Presidency when McKinley was assassinated.


    I noticed that one too, but the rest of it fit. Interesting.


    McCain’s selection of Palin was not completely aimed at Hillary supporters. Her selection has energized the conservative base, and the Hillary supporters are gravy, IMHO.

  128. For his own good, Obama ought to take McCaskill off the surrogate circuit NOW.

    Her performance today on “This Is Weak” with Stepahnopoulos was just an abomination, there we got her latest act of brilliance:

    McCASKILL TO STEPHANOPOULOS: McCain’s age, melanoma are “a reality…we have to face”

  129. MABlue: what was Stephanopoulos’ reaction to this? McCaskill is out of her mind!

    Here’s an announcement of a NH Democrat, and former Hillary supporter, endorsing McCain/Palin:


  130. Amen MA,

    McCaskill makes me sick. She needs to not be re-elected. To say the least…

    Do you live in MA? Would LOVE to see Kerry go down this Tuesday.

  131. Well, if it’s fair to discuss McCain’s age – and the idea some Democrats are pushing that he’s going to keel over any minute now – then how about we start discussing the possibility of an Obama assassination. After all, our country has a longer history of assassinated Presidents than of Presidents who die of natural causes while in office.

  132. I was appalled by McCaskill’s comment. She invoked ageism, to the maxium. If anyone, had suggested race, he/she would have been crucified. This woman should not be speaking on talk shows. Ageism, racism, sexism are the 3 “isms” of this campaign. McCaskill is a disgrace.

  133. DYB:

    Good point. Another double standard exposed.

    Birdgal – the ageism in this race has not been called out…it’s atrocious to say the least what the media assumes will happen to McCain, simply because he’s 72. Seniors, babyboomers, every day masses of people are offended and no one talks about it.

  134. just seen a transcript of the ABC’s Palin interview….ABC edited out key parts….what is it with the media?

  135. i would have said, no i will not be voting obama if he replaces biden with clinton and stop using such a great true democrat so that whiny guy gets his way… it would only show his weakness in making quick judgment calls if he backed away from biden now on top of everything which was hillary’s argument during the primaries that he does not have the judgement he thinks he has, which is a weakness of gwb, he isn’t decisive and he doesn’t make decisions quick enough and most of his decisions are bad ones, so what is this saying of obama if he is already making hugely bad decisions just during the election… not so fast obama, you made your bed, now lay in it, i won’t be voting for you… possibly the only way would be if hillary were president and you vice president, but never the other way around you intern you…

  136. This is so funny…I can’t even begin…

  137. epicurious, the media is not talking about the ageism or sexism in this race; only racism. All three are major factors in this election, and show the chasms in our society.

  138. Can you imagine our descendents, a hundred years or so from now, reading about this?

  139. SHV

    shouldn’t THEY be making that argument, instead of just turning out the lights and going home?

  140. The ROI was nada, zilch, zero.

  141. This is O/T. Sorry. The NY Times is reporting that Lehman Brothers will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on Monday morning. Things are not good for the economy. I think we are in for a very rough ride, reminiscent of the the 1930s. We are really going to need each other.

  142. Ames, on September 15th, 2008 at 1:27 am Said:

    Would PUMAs really not vote for Obama if Hillary was put in the VP slot? I wouldn’t understand that.
    I wouldn’t..Obama is too dangerous to be any where near the WH. Rather than age, medical fitness should be one of he criterion. Reagan was mentally unfit to be Pre. for his second term..JFK was medically unfit to be President. Who knows about Obama.

  143. You know I’d LOVE to see the republicans flip this ageism on the Obama campaign. The dirty low down trick where they pulled a sound byte of Hillary’s and twisted around THEN THEY released to each and every media outlet to make it sound as if she was saying what would benefit them….”She wants Obama assasinated!” the WORST soap opera lying sensationalism. Well, two ought to play at that game..take away that ageism argument from them.

    Let the republicans clip out a sound byte and twist it all around to say that Obama wishes McCain would kick the bucket and then let McCain sound all pious about it to his favor.

    EXPOSE the dirtiest of tricks Obama has done by doing them too. They’d have ZERO defense against it…after all wasn’t it stephanopolous himself who admonished the Obama campaign for being the ones to twist that and make sure it was hot off the press in Obama’s campaign wording to create a frenzy???

    The republicans have done plenty in past campaigns to play dirty politics, They are up against the worst of the worst. Go out guns blazing Palin! lol And McCain.

    The media doesn’t CARE about ageism or misogyny because both biases HELP wonder boy. And alls fair in politics to the one who says he’s for “change”

    How he has any supporters at all is beyond me. He’s worse than Pat Robertson on acid.

  144. caseyOR, on September 15th, 2008 at 1:32 am Said:

    This is O/T. Sorry. The NY Times is reporting that Lehman Brothers will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on Monday morning. Things are not good for the economy. I think we are in for a very rough ride, reminiscent of the the 1930s. We are really going to need each other.
    I think you are right. I Think the economy is not going to hit bottom for another three years. Bush has been trying to keep the balloon inflated with interest cuts and other short term means.

    The next President is going to get the blame for the crash and will be one term.

  145. Am I the only person who thinks she would take it if offered?

    I don’t think she wants it, but I think she is that loyal that she’d do it to help the party win, even after everything they’ve put her through.

    Thankfully, though, I don’t think there’s a chance in hell that Obama would ever consider making teh switch.

  146. birdgal, epicurious:
    My mother just started a new business at 75. She is still going strong after a heart attack 17 years ago.

    You can imagine I am unmoved by age-related arguments against Senator McCain.

  147. “Would PUMAs really not vote for Obama if Hillary was put in the VP slot? I wouldn’t understand that.”

    What’s not to understand? Obama isn’t in any way, shape, or form prepared for the office. The VP has no authority, and Obama sure as hell isn’t going to listen to a mere woman. She’d be locked out of every decision and stuck with the grunt work while the frat boys run amuck, her only role would be as the scapegoat for every idiotic mistake they’d make. And if he stays true to form, he’d probably take great glee in publicly humiliating/dissing her on a regular basis. No way, no how, no qualified woman pushed into a secondary support/blame position for the unqualified, a——– man, we’ve all been in that play.

  148. vivienne westwood, I was just reading that also.

    Amazing what they cut out.

  149. I’m so mad I’m beside myself at Democrats in general…yesterday in TN the state Dem Executive committee threw out a woman state Senator with 12 years’ experience, for the crime of voting for a GOP majority leader – after the good old boy governor and former majority leader had already lost control of the Senate to the Republicans in 2004. Also, she’s one of the whopping 16% of our legislature that’s female.

    GOD I wish I lived in a Party registration state so I could get up at 7 AM tomorrow and go change my registration to Independent.

    Thank heavens for you people or I really would have gone bananas over the last few months.

  150. If he asks here to be his VP, she should just give him the finger.

  151. It’s not possible that Biden would be replaced. Obama spent a long time choosing a running mate, and what would it say about his judgment if he flip-flopped on it a few weeks later? He’d look like someone who couldn’t be trusted to make a decision.

    Besides, he would never admit to being wrong.

  152. Night shift checking in from Australia!

    Any trolls around who need to discuss the issues?

  153. Howdy Australia. 🙂


  155. Howdy Seriously!

  156. Love the rumors, doubt the reality.
    meanwhile, Plouffe says Jump and media : How high?

  157. Hey edge, I read that article. I still believe that the American people will see through the media stink and refuse to vote for Barack in big numbers. We saw through him many months ago and the general public usually figures things out a bit later than us…….BUT, they figure it out. (Hillary numbers in the last 10 primaries for example).

  158. Actually, if Clinton is on the ticket, I would vote for Obama. If not, then I am undecided. Compared to McCain/Palin, Obama/Clinton sounds much better to me.

  159. I know I would struggle a little bit more if Hillary was the VP candidate but I still think it would be too difficult to fill in that oval (since I’ll be voting absentee from all the way down here) for Obama. My gut instinct as an American goes against Barry.

  160. And my gut reaction as a person is to keep him away from the WH.

    Not only do I not see whatever appeals to his fans, I see huge blots which worry me. Huge! ANd it never ceases to confuse me why his fans don’t see.

    There may be some truth to your kool-aid talk, because how else can you explain going after Palin’s experience of all things?!

    Sorry. I keep meaning to stay out of your politics but I’m a political junkie who is all het up already over what’s happening in my country, which got me thinking about the rest of the political world (heard about the Thai Prime Minister sacked for doing a cooking show?) and concluding that something strange is going on all over ( Mercury in retrogade?) – and top of the list, Obama and his ODems.

    Also, how exactly was he supposed to change perceptions of Americans in teh world by staging a massive ego-fest in Berlin before he’s even President? Or officially the Dem nominee? “We’re not arrogant and brash, no, but we are the ones the world has been waitng for.”

    I thought people were joking when they told me about ‘the seas rising’ or some such in Teh Best Speech Evar! – but no, watched a youtube and there it is.


  161. Can you believe what the Democratic party has done to us. It really pisses me off more and more everyday.


  162. Biden was in Charlotte? Seriously? I had no idea. I would have gone if for no other reason than to hold up a big-ass PUMA sign.

  163. The New York Post has as article claiming that Obama tried to stall troup withdrawal from Iraq.

    I read the article a few times and I’m still confused.


    According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in Baghdad in July.

    “He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after the US elections and the formation of a new administration in Washington,” Zebari said in an interview.
    continue reading: http://countusout.wordpress.com/

  165. Hillary may forgive what is done to her, but I will never forgive or forget this primary season.

  166. when and where did obama actually stated first that he was against the war? at the time he was not in the us senate and did not vote on it.

  167. Re delaying troop withdrawal.

    Could be true, in which case, more reason to really, really distrust the O. More importantly, it could shift whatever it is that is blocking sane thought processes in his fans.

    Proof would be nice though. There’s a commenter there saying the journalist is unreliable.

  168. Obama needs to get out of the way. HRC needs to be running against McCain. Only then will the Dems win this race. Until that happens,I’m going for McCain/PALIN.

  169. Obama could get away with dumping Biden for Hillary.

    The media drama it would create would take the focus off Palin and put it back on him.

    The pundits would go on about what a brilliant move it was and how women will vote their interests and blahblahblah.

    In other words, the media will cover Obama’s ass once again if he tries to pull Hillary onto the ticket.

    Mac and Palin will be lost in the media blizzard.

    Too little to late for me.
    Unless Clinton is at the top of the ticket I’ll still vote McCain.

  170. I throw in the towel. I can’t figure out where Obama stands on anything. Never could. This latest report (N.Y. Post)- delaying troup withdrawal) just ads more confusion.

    Obama;s hard core supporters are too lazy to think logically. They are also to lazy to show up at the polls.

    Obama and his followers will be with us a long time, post election. The gift that keeps on giving.

  171. he does not define anything in too much in detail (and god forbid to vote on anything), so everybody may feel he is just their man…..kind of clever

  172. I saw the NY Post article about troop withdrawals, too. So it really does appear that Obama would rather win an election than win a war.

    I wouldn’t vote for Obama if Jesus were on his ticket. But they could “community organize” together!

  173. anybody read the book ” the case against BO’ so far? is it worth the effort?

  174. sista: I have the book and am starting it today. Not that I think there will be anything in there that we have not already known or surmised.

  175. well, i guess he wont be the good guy?

  176. Hoping for the party to dump Obama and put Hillary on top is just not going to happen. We can joke about it, but, it is an impossibility. And the potential for a VP switch at this point in the game is one in a million. As much as I want Hillary in the WH I’m going to say no to the VP slot.

  177. I’d vote for a Hillary/Biden ticket
    Obama needs to finish his term and go back to “community” organizing

  178. Why am i now seeing this? Can’t these people get it through their tiny heads?

    No Way No How No F*cking Bama ! ! !

  179. […] Who is paying for the poll about putting Hillary in the VP slot? Jump to Comments Behind the scenes, Democrats are seriously wondering about replacing Biden with Hillary.  I certainly don’t know who is paying for it, but William Arnone, who does ”strategic positioning” out of NY is calling disenchanted Hillary supporters in a poll to find out if they will vote Obama if Biden is dropped and Hillary is brought on (see post from The Confluence). […]

  180. I have a friend that worked for a political polling agency. He said they would be instructed to ask questions that were designed to inflame. For instance, they might ask a question like, “Would you still vote for McCain if you found out he had engaged in homosexual activity while in the military?” Questions that implied completely made up facts, but designed to manipulate the public’s opinion of a candidate.

  181. […] This is interesting…. Commenter Felizarte recently posted this interesting tidbit: Talk of replacing Biden with Hillary must be under […] […]

  182. Please Hillary don’t do it. i couldn’t stand the idea of Hillary humiliating herself by being 2nd to this egomaniac moron. She doesn’t need that idiot,

    In 2012 it will beHillary’s time and she will be the leader, not the follower.

    In 2012 we will all be saying – what was that guy’s name again – didn’t it start with an.O? it was something like that. you remember, he was the guy who nearly ruined the democratic party.

    Fortunately, Hillary listened to us calling out her name and returned to clean house. The evil pelosi, reid, brazille and dean were relegated to the cheap seats in the nosebleed section of the democratic party and never to be heard from again. .

  183. This is very interesting news. I’m sure Obama would win the election if he picked Hillary, however how much power would she have in the White House. That is, of course, why he didn’t pick her in the first place.

  184. if nobama picked hillary, it would only be to use her. if he got elected, he would use every opportunity to push her down and keep all of the power for himself. He is not somebody who wants to share.

    I think Hillary would be humiliating and degrading herself to agree to be on any ticket where she would be under this jackass.

    Hillary needs to be patient and wait for her time in 2012 when nobama is just a name that most people will barely remember.and if they do remember, they will think of him as the loser of the 08 election.

  185. This is a slap in the face and the mentality (to Hillery) and all the Hillery supporters be them male or female. Let alone Obama sending a message to the world he thinks of women as second class and will follow a man as long as they are thrown a few morsels.

    If this happens Hillery will loose her shot at Pres. McCain is going to win and then in 4 yrs all of us that want her for Pres will be able to vote for her.
    I will not vote for any ticket with Obama on it. He didn’t need the Hillery voters before and made light of all my religious gun owning friends and thinks he can lead us all like a band of sheep.
    Any person with any kind of brain and is a self thinking person will not vote for this fairy tail, snake oil salesman. He is looking to be more a King than a President. If he and the DNC have their way this will turn into a one party system. Be careful what you believe and do as much research as you can. It is hard to do because he has his people out there blocking a lot. There are to many holes in his life story.
    Hitler and Castro both offered to be the saviour to their people. My openion is I classify Obama in their category. No Dem vote from me as long as Obama is on the ticket and as long as all the crooks are running the DNC and have such a low openion of women as women and as voters. This will be the first time in 48 yrs of voting this old lady will be voting for a Rep. Pres.
    The Dems have changed so badly and with their hate spewing they make me ashmed to admit I ever did vote for them..

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