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Friday: Democrat’s Dilemma

Occam's Donkey

Occam's Democrat

So, I heard that Palin gave an interview yesterday and the Tweeties are already shredding it.  The NYTimes has an article about how Palin’s pipeline is still vaporware.

Know what?  I don’t care.

Like we don’t know that there are forces out there trying as hard as they can to turn us off our food when it comes to Palin.  The Teaparty Ten are hitting the talking head circuit shaking their fingers at us lest we abandon women to the Republican forced pregnancy squad.  They must think we’re stupid.  We’ve looked at the prospective Congresscritters’ web pages and a vast majority of them never mention reproductive rights.  So, Barbara, Claire and Gloria, if you don’t go back to your older and wiser men who are in charge and tell them to put their money where their mouths are with respect to abortion, you might as well be picking table setting colors for the next Senate Ladies’ Auxiliary Garden Party.

Here’s the thing, oh mighty powers that be:  all primary season long, you have been telling us to get in line, corraling us like the women of some puritanical middle eastern country.  You haven’t offered us anything in return.  Our votes were seized, our candidate humiliated, our choices eliminated.  Some of you have even written letters telling us how tiresome and irritating we are for asking for something for our votes.  You’ve given us Barack Obama who has never met a principle he cherishes so much that he wouldn’t give it up in the name of post-partisanship or political expediency.

When it comes to the two nominees we have to choose from right now, both options leave us cold.  In the one case, the Democrat turns his back on his party when it is convenient while the other asks us to turn our back on our party to embrace the one that gave us 8 years of Bush.  The Democrat has short coattails while with the Republican, we may end up with one party rule.

But there is a potential tie breaker.  It’s Sarah Palin.  Despite the fact that her view of government is vastly  different than ours, her candidacy offers us something.  After she is elected to office, women who come after her will have an easier time getting to that top spot.  And if that is true, then she may be doing more for women’s issues than any one of the Teaparty Ten who are appealing to the ladies.  The next female candidate who runs for president may actually make it.  It may take four years before we see a pay off but the long term goal is extremely attractive.  Maybe we can get universal healthcare, full day kindergarten, equal pay in our lifetimes.

It’s tasty.

So, all you guys out there furiously spinning the double standard that a first term governor of a state with two international borders is somehow less qualified to learn on the job to be VP than the first term Senator of a landlocked state is to learn on the job to be president, save your breath.  When you took Hillary Clinton out, the game became much bigger than your petty interparty politics.

We’ll take it from here.

293 Responses

  1. Can you travel to Canada by barrel from Chicago?

  2. Mebbe. I *thought* that Illinois was the only Great Lake state without a border with Canada. Lemme go check Wiki. Still, that puts it down one international border from Alaska. And as governor, she’s going to have more knowledge about international boundaries and treaties than Obama.

  3. Illinois bordered by Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa and Wisconsin. No Canada. You’re right, RD.

  4. I didn’t watch the interview. How was it, objectively?
    MSObama’s telling me it was awful.

  5. But Uh-bama lived in Indonesia! And he was born in Hawaii, which borders . . . .

    Well, anyway, he gave a speech in Germany!

  6. Did you notice that the New York Times story on Palin’s interview repeatedly referred to her as “Ms. Palin” and did not once mention her hair or her makeup?

    Quite a change from their Hillary coverage.

    Can’t figure out if that’s progress or more pandering.

  7. Nope, no international borders that I can find. Lots of Borders book stores though….

  8. @ no blood for hubris:

    no, that’s just the times. quaint to the point of cuteness. osama is “mr. bin laden”, at least when the times talks about him.

  9. Ms Palin, not Governor Palin? umh?

    Plus, Hawaii has interplanetary connection as in Lilo and Stitch.

  10. NoBlood: The ladies of the Republican Party served notice that they would not shine on their candidate being Hillary-ized.

  11. Thanks for speaking up day in and day out, RD.

  12. What gets me is that these pundits are complaining that the interviewer is either too hard or too condescending when putting forth the questions. Tough toenails! This is the big time here folks, these people are asking us to place them in charge of world affairs. If a few questions are perceived as “too tough”, how the hell are we supposed to feel confident when they go up against a nasty tyrant or a less sympathetic foreign press?

    All candidates should expect to be “drilled down” by the interviewer otherwise they will only tell you what they want you to hear. Had the press been doing their rightful job, that is pressing beyond the “awe that is Obama”, we may be witnessing another ball game altogether. One reason that he appears so weak in interviews and forums is that the has been handled with kid gloves up until now.

    This world is a dangerous place and more and more problems are simmering just below the surface. How these candidates will eventually handle these eruptions can only be somewhat determined in how they respond to questions in a controlled setting.

    Having witnessed the British press and punditry actually placing their politicians feet to the fire with pertinent questions and strong follow ups, we should be modeling our press along the same lines. No coddling, no schmoozing, no backing off for fear of losing access.

    You want the job of leading this country, earn it. They are here to serve us not the other way around.

  13. “Actions speak louder than words” keeps banging around in my head…

  14. Apologies for the cut and paste. I found a reporter who does not toe the BO party line:

    “In short, far from being a small-town mayor concerned with little more than traffic signs, she (Palin) has been a major player in state politics for a decade, one who formulated an ambitious agenda and deftly implemented it against great odds.

    Her sudden elevation to the vice-presidential slot on the Republican ticket shocked no one more than her enemies in Alaska, who have broken out into a cold sweat at the thought of Palin in Washington, guiding the Justice Department’s anti-corruption teams through the labyrinths of Alaska’s old-boy network.

    It is no surprise that many of the charges laid against her have come from Alaska, as her enemies become more and more desperate to bring her down. John McCain was familiar with this track record and it is no doubt the principal reason that he chose her.

    Focusing on the exotic trappings of Alaskan culture may make Palin seem a quaint and inexplicable choice. But understanding the real background of her steady rise in politics suggests that Barack Obama and Joe Biden are underestimating her badly. In this, they join two former Alaskan governors, a large number of cronies, and a trail of enemies extending back over a decade.”

    JAMES BENNETT – TELEGRAPH

    http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/they-make-em-tough-in-alaska-20080911-4eon.html

  15. Heh, I must have Gerard Butler on the brain (hard to get him outta there!). It’s actually Gerard Baker.

    *blushing*

  16. I heard Palin couldn’t define the Bush Doctrine.

    Isn’t that a good thing? If she can’t define it, she won’t want to use it.

  17. RD,

    Great line….

    (Y)ou might as well be picking table setting colors for the next Senate Ladies’ Auxiliary Garden Party.

    I can hear the conversation…

    The hemlock tea goes so well with the Kivorkian scones…

  18. britgirls: Unable to enlarge the picture, but that looks like one cute baby you’ve got there!

  19. I heard Palin couldn’t define the Bush Doctrine.
    Oh, they keep playing that over and over.

    It’s not that she couldn’t define it, she knew it was a loaded question and made Gibson define it so she wouldn’t walk into the trap of being a war-crazy-Bushie.

    Hillary did similar pushbacks, iirc, when O’Reilly interviewed her. Except of course Hillary does it with more finesse, and she is so up-to-the-minute with all the facts and figures and oh why isn’t SHE our candidate? *sob*

  20. Pat … don’t get me started on my babies! Got three of the cutest blondies with blue eyes and dimples galore.

    That pic is of Nicky with a foil cupcake on his head (tin-foil hat, ya know). Okay, I’ll stop!

  21. “What gets me is that these pundits are complaining that the interviewer is either too hard or too condescending when putting forth the questions.”

    The charge is not that Gibson asked tough questions, but that he was hostile, condescending and partisan – in a way that O’Reilly was not in interviewing Obama.

    But I think that’s ok. In my view, she was impressive – not an um-ah- um in any of her responses. I suspect that the average voter who watched to get a feel for her competence, was impressed.

  22. Yes, why don’t we have Hillary?

    Then we wouldn’t have to put up with this “celebrity of the moment” politics.

  23. “Who is this Democratic Governor? Considered Presidential Timber after being Elected to Public Office for the First Time…But It’s Sarah Palin Who is “Inexperienced” ?”

    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/2008/09/12/who-is-this-democratic-governor-considered-presidential-timber-after-being-elected-to-public-office-for-the-first-timebut-its-sarah-palin-who-is-inexperienced/

    Read through the resume and take a guess! (answer at any of the sources listed at the end….)

  24. britgirls: And of course my 4 were some of the most beautiful, intelligent, charming children you would ever hope to meet! Nicky looks like a little cutie patootie.

  25. plural: Amen to that!!!

  26. Okay, maybe a little off topic, but as most of you know, before the sleazefest that became our election, I did research for HuffPost’s OffTheBus series. You’ll remember Bittergate, well that was from an OffTheBus person.

    Anyway, this morning I checked my email and what did I get but another OffTheBus request. This one was different, they are actually asking for copies of sleazy emails. Now I don’t know about your thoughts, but the posters at HuffPost are what sent me here to begin with, but off course when I read a thread by RD, I was hooked.

    My question is, Do you find this offensive coming from Huffington Post after their smears of Hillary?

    Heres the Email.

    Hi,

    We want to see all the sleaze that’s now showing up in your mailbox and inbox. You know, those fliers, leaflets or emails that slime one or the other presidential candidates as a baby killer, a sex fiend, a serial tax raiser, or as a pantywaist coddler of terrorists or commies.

    Simply put on some gloves, hold your nose, scan the sleaze, and then email or fax us the copies of these specimens of American political mailings. After we get it, we’ll put it online at HuffPost’s OffTheBus for everyone to see and pick apart. We are not just looking for emails! We’re looking for pieces sent as supplements in newspapers or direct mail (in the guise of organizational letters, personal notes, etc.). MAKE SURE to include a couple of lines telling us when you got it and who sent it to you.

    Start sending us your sleaze right away:

    * EMAILS: Forward emails to specialops@huffingtonpost.com.

  27. Yes, Pat, I am sure…the question though is, are they “above average”?

  28. Charles: I just saw the 527 PAC ads on your blog. Where will they be running?

    I don’t like the way they use Hillary. I don’t like it at all.

  29. I have been quite supportive of Sarah (in prose and poetry), and oratorically she did fine, at least for a rookie.

    However, I’m not crazy about this business of putting Georgia in Nato, like it’s still the cold war and the Berlin airlift.

    Frankly, I wish that just once a politician would admit that with the cold war over, there is no more reason to have NATO.

  30. Kim: Huff Po is offensive on any level.

  31. Mornin’ folks! Off topic, but can someone point me to a Web site that explains each state’s write-in rules?

  32. I keep meeting more and more women, Democrats, who are not voting for Obama. Most are skipping the race for president and the rest are voting for McCain/Palin before voting for down-ballot Democrats. I had dinner the other night with a friend I’ve known for over 30 years. She’s never wanted to discussed politics and I’ve never been sure which party, if any, she ever belonged to. Well, she brought up politics this time, saying she was a long-time Democrat but she couldn’t vote for Obama. I told her I was skipping the presidential race (although McCain/Palin look better all the time) and just voting for down-ballot Democrats and she decided she’d do the same. We’re in Texas, so it probably won’t affect the election, but it’s got to send some kind of message if the presidential candidate gets fewer votes than down-ballot candidates.

  33. Linda: And don’t think the Obama campaign is not very much aware of how some of us stand on this. They are stepping up their efforts to further peel off anymore defections to McCain/Palin by allowing their surrogates to attack her from all sides.

    Disagree with her politics but leave the personal trash aside. We witnessed far too much of that with Hillary and this is what is driving the female vote either to the sidelines or lining up with the opposition. The DNC is responsible and will pay heavily in the end.

  34. Yes, I think the attacks on Hillary, followed with barely a breath in between on Palin, have been noticed by voters. When I think of Obama, I think: Snob with a Dirty Campaign.

  35. Peg said: “The charge is not that Gibson asked tough questions, but that he was hostile, condescending and partisan – in a way that O’Reilly was not in interviewing Obama”

    This is very true, he was incredibly condescending and patronizing. I wanted to punch him, These guys are sexists, and anything short of Hillary knowledge, will be belittled. Whats really going to be bad is the D women who are going to criticize her.

    I am not going to vote for downticket dems. I’m sorry RD, but all D have hurt womens rights this year by their actions or inaction. I will leave the ticket blank.

  36. From a right-wing pundit, but a fun read nonetheless…(politics does indeed make strange bedfellows):
    http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_10444672

  37. Linda: And don’t think the Obama campaign is not very much aware of how some of us stand on this. They are stepping up their efforts to further peel off anymore defections to McCain/Palin by allowing their surrogates to attack her from all sides.

    But they wouldn’t do it if it didn’t work. And thats why i will not vote for or forgive any D for a long time. Every man and women who is pursuaded to vote D because of this is a mark against the D party.

  38. Not only has Obama imposed a glass ceiling on female candidates (and potentially supportive voters), but by asking that funds currently going elsewhere -issues and party-wise — also made that ceiling a glass floor.

    Now this might suit a handful of power-drunk “Dems” just fine but it doesn’t sit well with me at all.

    It strips women of what little power and representation we get for the huge investment of resources we’ve contributed.

  39. I have no problem with tough questions being asked of the candidates. What I do have a problem with is the unequal treatment of the candidates. From the beginning of Palin’s interview, Gibson was openly hostile. Why? If the propagandists (I do not say journalists, because all of them have renounced their responsibilities as journalists and are acting as propagandists) want to provide information to the citizens, then the tough questions must be asked of all the candidates, not just the female candidates (Palin and Clinton).

    One last thing, when are the “liberals” coming back? I detest the “progressives” since they support misogyny, sexism, FISA, and a whole host of Republican ideas.

  40. Had the DNC been smart (and that is a stretch what with Nancy, Howard, and Donna B at the helm) it would have been a Clinton/Obama ticket and the next 8 to 16 years would more than likely be gained. A winning and historic ticket with a champion in the lead and another in the making.

    But they had to have what they had to have NOW and this is where we are. Surrogates pulling the load, a less than stellar VP choice, an opposition VP candidate with more executive experience than the one on top of the Dem ticket who also has eclipsed him in celebrity, and the resurgence of an old warrior whose views most of us disdain but who is gaining strength in the polls.

    Thanks for nothing DNC. And may you go by way of the dinosaurs for what you have wrought. They never counted on this.

  41. plural, on September 12th, 2008 at 8:41 am Said:
    Yes, why don’t we have Hillary?

    I agree with you, plural. I am a Democrat and really believe in its tenets and principles. I’ll probably stay home or write in Hillary’s name …. I just can’t give my vote to a Republican who will take us further down the path of Bush/Cheney.

    The Democrats had the chance to nominate a woman and Obama had the chance to put a woman on his ticket. Neither happened and the Republicans are now making the Dems look regressisve. Wouldn’t you know … i told you so.

  42. Hi Charles,

    Is your email still down?

  43. Charles, do you put quotes around that search?

  44. This article by Fred Barnes sums up the sitch pretty nicely:

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/545moqlh.asp

  45. Obama.
    Is.
    Desperate.

    Obama to “go personal” against McCain, Palin; Update: Barack “Isotoner” Obama

    According to NBC and the New York Times ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/us/politics/12obama.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin ), Democrats have put enormous pressure on Barack Obama to start hitting John McCain in a more personal manner and to get his momentum back in this race. Team Obama says that the “bed-wetting” will not knock them off their game plan, but according to Andrea Mitchell, that may change. Sources in the campaign tell her that they will start getting personal with John McCain and perhaps Sarah Palin, starting today:

    Senator Barack Obama will intensify his assault against Senator John McCain, with new television advertisements and more forceful attacks by the candidate and surrogates beginning Friday morning, as he confronts an invigorated Republican presidential ticket and increasing nervousness in the Democratic ranks.

    Mr. McCain’s choice of Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska as his running mate and the resulting jolt of energy among Republican voters appear to have caught Mr. Obama and his advisers by surprise and added to concern among some Democrats that the Obama campaign was not pushing back hard enough against Republican attacks in a critical phase of the race.

    Some Democrats said Mr. Obama needed to move to seize control of the campaign and to block Mr. McCain from snatching away from him the message that he was the best hope to bring change to Washington.

    After back-to-back attack ads by Mr. McCain, including one that misleadingly accused Mr. Obama of endorsing sex education for kindergarten students, the Obama campaign is planning to sharpen attacks on Mr. McCain and Ms. Palin in an effort to counter Mr. McCain’s attempt to present himself as the candidate of change with his choice of Ms. Palin.

    If nothing else, this should be entertaining. How much lower and personal can one go than to accuse opponents of being racists? Obama’s already trotted that out four times this summer, the last time just a week ago.

    How does one go “personal” against John McCain in a way that makes any sense? My guess is that Team Obama will go back to the “temperament” meme, arguing that McCain is too much of a hothead to have his finger on the button. Unfortunately, Obama has his own “temperament” history, one which may negate this line of attack altogether or at least dilute it to the point of ineffectiveness. Further, McCain’s been on the national stage for decades and has never had a moment where people saw him as irrational, and even the targets of his anger say that it always had a tactical purpose.

    Democrats have tried going “personal” against Palin already, with disastrous results. Every kind of smear has been aimed at her, from being nothing more than a pregnant pants-suit to a slut to a bad mother, and so on. Where has that taken the Obama campaign? On an unprecedented slide in polling that they now have less than eight weeks to stop, let alone reverse.

    Obama started this campaign on a promise of New Politics. He betrayed that by breaking his pledge on public financing, and almost immediately afterwards began weeping about the racist Republicans and the John McCain campaign. The farther Obama walks away from his New Politics pledge, the weaker he becomes. Because without that, voters have no reason at all to vote for a man with no experience at all.

    Obama’s listening to the same people who did such a great job opposing George Bush in the last two elections. He should have stuck with the Clintons.

    Update: Jake Tapper ridicules this new theme, and says he’s heard it before, and before, and before:

    But just so you know — this is by my count the 4th time Obama’s campaign has officially or unofficially made such a declaration that Obama will “take off the gloves” and fight back.

    That’s a lot of pairs of gloves.

    The Isotoner campaign, one might say.

    How is this different? Tapper notes with a heavy dollop of sarcasm that the Obama campaign will shift to a new, unveiled attack on McCain as … being the same as George Bush.

    LOL @ Isotoner Obama! This latest attack plan by the Obama campaign against McCain-Palin is not going to work. Can anyone say, backfire? Obama campaign in total meltdown mode now.

  46. I wasn’t too impressed with the interview. It wasn’t terrible, but it certainly did not play well to my ears. However, it certainly did not hurt her in the eyes of the republican base… and even more importantly (problably) she did come across somewhat sympathetic. Palin had a little trouble balancing femininity (which republicans seem to love) and looking in control and assertive.

    I felt she should have shown more humility (in that McCain, a man of substance and honor; even if I disagree with him on issues, chose her to be his running mate), since that is the only partition of affinity I have for her. I feel the media has treated her terribly and unfairly and therefore I am sympathetic. I do not feel she has enough experience to be president, the same way I feel Obama does not and Palin’s grasp of some issues is lacking in my opinion…

  47. Barack “Gutterball” Obama

    The Obama campaign just announced this morning that they intend to go on the personal attack against McCain-Palin.

    Obama claimed he was some kind of new politician. He is nothing but a Chicago slimeball wrapped up in an empty suit.

    And we all know he is use to rolling gutterballs.

    More of the same old politics from Ozero.

    Me thinks Obama’s decision to go personal against McCain-Palin will backfire.

    And can anyone say, desperate?

    Pathetic!

  48. I relieve believe we slipped into the Twilight Zone. The all-news radio station this morning mentioned the “troopergate” investigation, talking about how the legislature was vigorously going after the truth.

    Yet we have the Bush administration’s crimes going unexplored, or so wimpily pursued that Congress may as well be giving a benediction. Pelosi is set to let Karl Rove skate away from the Judicial Committee subpoena.

    Real crimes, real atrocities that have trashed our country’s reputation and hurt us and the world, but it’s Palin’s spouse- and child-abuser ex-brother-in-law who is a major issue. Just … indescribable.

  49. Charles: I took a look at those 527 ads. Nothing new there and not the hard hitting evil ads the Dems always accuse the R of airing. Pretty mild. I hope they have more dirt on the guy.

    McCain once said he was not going to compromise his integrity in order to be Pres. I don’t think Obama has the same qualms since he is happy to claim credit for the work of others, and in general lie about his own record.

  50. Sorry, that’s “really believe.” Should’ve finished the cup of coffee before typing.

  51. Today’s USAToday on Palin’s governing in Alaska (another MSM breaks ranks?):

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-11-palin-cover_N.htm

  52. I disagree with Fred Barnes in that Hillary should never have been considered as a VP. She is “top of the ticket” material not some underling to Junior. He couldn’t come close to licking her boots. What he is doing at the top is baffling. Just because he is black is no reason to vote for someone who lacks the chops.

    It should have been Hillary and I think a lot of those supers who insisted on climbing onto the bandwagon are sorely coming to terms with that now. Too little, too late.

  53. sister, The powers that be want Obama not McCain. The same people that wanted Bush over McCain now want Obama over McCain.

  54. They are digging like rats for the dirt on Palin while Obama sits there with a sign around his scrawny neck reading: It’s all here!!! Totally unbelievable.

  55. Hey ex-kossacks,

    While I preferred the eco Democrat, I am even more alarmed by McCain’s stance on clean energy than Obama’s differences with Clinton, (which I wrote about here in the primary)
    please just look at McCain’s voting history on clean energy, before you cut off our noses to spite our faces.
    While I agree back room deals are no way to elect party nominees, we have 7 years to tipping point on climate.

    ( I ‘ve been writing at this eco site under my real name)

    (editors note: you don’t get to come here and insult us, then promote your website)

  56. I’ll say it: I hate and despise Nancy Pelosi! Even more than I ever did Tom Delay. And that is saying a lot.

  57. I saw a clip of Bill and Obama after their luncheon in which Bill says he’ll start stumping for Obama on 9/29. Someone yesterday thought that Obama looked funny in the clip. I thought it was obvious that Bill Clinton hates Obama.

  58. Hello everybody! Back in the game after few days resting in Florida. Very interesting trip and discussions with several Obama supporters, including one who refused to acknowledge the bribing of the superdelegates even after having viewed the youtube video (Superdelegates for sale). Anyway, I kept saying no deal! Some were pretty frustrated and borderline desesperated. (I smell a coming defeat).

    The rethoric about Palin was disgusting, talking points and trash. I picked at Joy Behar on Larry King and was absolutly disgusted. Isn’t there enough men out there that it has to be a woman attacking one of the few women in major poiitics. Very disapointing. I guess women are so used to do the washing and cleaning, some find it natural to do the same on the political arena.

    Get out of that launry room Joy Behar!!!

    Anyway I don’t care, I like Palin, not so much her politics, but with a Democratic Congress I can live with her. And I love what she represent for the glass ceiling.

  59. Hi Dot,

    It’s good to see you again. I’m getting ready to run out for a couple of hours. But, I wanted to tell you that The Confluence as a site (and nearly all of our authors) have NOT endorsed John McCain.

    The Confluence and it’s authors are bitter holdouts against Obama. But, we haven’t agreed about who or how we will vote.

    As Riverdaughter frequently (although a little less often recently) says, “Friends don’t let friends vote Republican”

    Since the Presidency is lost to us either way, we’re beginning to focus on the Down Ticket Democrats who can help us hold the line during the next 4 years.

  60. dotcommodity, Obama is a disaster. It’s not about spite. It is about stopping the corruption.

  61. katiebird: Thanks for summing it all up again. My sentiments exactly.

  62. Any downticket Dem who supported Obama from the beginning will lose my vote to the Green Party. I get more and more nervous about leaving the ballot blank, so I just found out that if I write in Cynthia McKinney for POTUS in my state (CT) it will be valid. I worry about cheating. Sophie L., call your secretary of state wherever you live and ask about write-in rules. If they don’t know, there is a site on Facebook called the US Presidential Sit Out that has some rules.

  63. Wasn’t Hillary recently in Florida. Why has McCain gone up in the polls then.

    Quinniapiac Poll:

    McCain leads Obama 50% to 43% in Florida. A full 25% of Clinton supporters here are now supporting McCain. This is the biggest lead that McCain has had in Florida in quite some time.

    The same thing happened in Nevada. Obama has got to stop asking Hillary to campaign for him. Wait and see what happens in Ohio after Hillary has been there

  64. Just came from Charle’s blog. Very interesting indeed. I will be visiting more often.

    Those pac ads are in my opinion silly but probably will be effective.

    Saw the two clips of the Palin interview. I did not think she did poorly. She will get better as the campaign goes on. I loved the “WTF” look in the interviewer’s face when Palin asked “what aspect”?(of the Bush doctrine) heh….Then he had to push on give us “his” version of the Bush doctrine.

    Oh, how come he got so “lost” with Palin’s answers and demanded yes or no answers…I find her quite eloquent. I guess no “nuanced” answers are allowed from the Palin woman. Oh well.

  65. Hillary can’t undo the damage Obama does to himself.

    He has to start campaigning. And that doesn’t mean making attack ads about whether McCain uses e mail.

  66. How much did Obama raise in Aug?…

    McCain put his total of 47 million out a while ago…

  67. edgeoforever,

    Thanks for linking to the Politico piece on Bill Clinton. Very interesting.

  68. What a terrible dilemma this presidential race has put us in. I think many of us will vote from the heart.

    My mom recently said she will definitely vote for anyone BUT McCain because of his hints at deregulating the markets more. I’m not with her on this yet.

  69. hey river…just checking in to see what is going on…

    good post…enjoyed reading it…

  70. Caught a few minutes of Tweetie last night. He was frothing at the mouth and demanding to know when the Clinton’s are going to really jump on board and push for Obama. It is like a game of schizophrenia over there. They push her out then demand she get back in to prop up Backtrack NOW!

    Who is the candidate in all this anyway? He wanted center stage and he has it. Forget the Clinton’s. If he cannot carry this on his own he does not deserve one single vote. We are looking for a president here not the Homecoming Queen and his court.

  71. “Obama sacrificed a stronger ticket by rejecting Clinton. Absent Hillary, the contest between Obama-Biden and the Republican ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin is throwing the Democrats into disarray. The consequences of Obama’s veep decision appear mostly to favor McCain. And if Obama had picked Hillary? Here are a few of the differences.

    “No Palin. Okay, McCain might have picked her anyway. He was looking for a running mate who would help him shake up the campaign. And Palin has delivered spectacularly on that. But choosing her would have seemed far less of a game-changer had Obama picked Clinton. Palin would have been merely the second female running mate in 2008. And her appeal to those who had voted for Clinton in the primaries would have been reduced if not nullified altogether . . .

    ” Ohio and Pennsylvania. Republicans figured these states, notably Pennsylvania, were all but goners if Clinton won the Democratic nomination. Even as veep, she’d have had a favorable impact. When she was passed over by Obama, Republicans jumped for joy. Ohio, which a Republican presidential candidate has to win, now leans McCain. Pennsylvania, which is crucial to a Democratic candidate’s chances, has become a ripe target of opportunity for McCain.

    ” Arkansas. As a Southern state, Arkansas is inclined to vote Republican in presidential races unless there’s a compelling reason not to. One of those reasons: a Clinton on the Democratic ticket. Without Clinton, Arkansas moves into the leaning (strongly) McCain camp.

  72. Frenchnail…

    I hope Obama does not become a drag downticket to the point of reversing democratic gains…

    If and when McCain goes after Obama’s (near) infanticide postion while he was a part-time state senator…it will be game over.

  73. If Hillary had been on the ticket in any capacity Palin would be only a blip on the screen. The Dems messed up once again.

  74. The Congressional Dems fell for Obama because he was supposed to be such a big vote-getter and would help them. Now they’re worried about their majority? Oh please.

  75. This is for Pat Johnson:

    New Ohio Poll:

    McCain 48, Obama 44

    Additionally, the poll shows that more Democrats than Republicans express interest to cross party lines: 11 percent of Democrats compared to 5 percent of Republicans.

    “Both campaigns have many hours of work ahead if they want to secure a path to
    the presidency through Ohio,” Rademacher said.

    He added, “The dynamics of this race may change as voters make final decisions based on candidate performances in Ohio and on the national stage.”

    The poll, sponsored by the University of Cincinnati, found that five percent of Ohio voters would vote for another candidate.

    The poll was conducted Sept. 5-10 and has a margin of error of 3.5 percent.

  76. dotcommodity, I’m surprised that you, of all people, would come back here after everything we went through in the primary and use such loaded nonsense as the “cutting off your nose to spite your face”. I guess somebody slipped you the kool-aid, too bad, because you were right on on energy issues. I for one don’t appreciate you dropping in after all this time just to be a total ass. Am I alone in my sentiment?

  77. They were being cute by half. A black candidate, a defeated GOP, an electorate hungry for change. They took us for granted. Big mistake. Hillary would have won. She showed that during the last few months of the primaries when she was beginning to bring in former skeptics who had paid attention to her message. The voters were eager, the party was not.

  78. I would, in fact, ask my fellow moderators to consider deleting the reference to her post. Obviously she came her not only to insult, but to promote herself. I find that distasteful.

  79. Hillary would have won. She showed that during the last few months of the primaries when she was beginning to bring in former skeptics who had paid attention to her message.

    Yes, and the DNC was terrified that she was getting stronger, so they forced her out.

    I don’t want to vote for either of these candidates. Thanks, DNC.

  80. Thanks, ben. Admittedly I wish to take the easy way out. If McCain pulls ahead in my state I don’t have to vote for him. The thought of going to my grave having cast a vote in favor of a Repug for president is not one I relish.

    Look at my position as one with Obama: let someone else do the heavy lifting on my behalf. I will never vote for Obama and I want to say in all good conscience I never voted for McCain. Only if push gets to shove.

  81. mccain up by 6 pts on intrade…. he was down nearly 40 just 2 weeks ago

  82. We know where Sarah Palin was yesterday during the 911 Memorial Service …..sending her son off to iraq to serve

    I asked this in another thread, but I am still wondering …….Where was mo on 911 yesterday and why wasn’t she there at the Memorial . I know if I am puzzled … many many more people are ….. is anyone else wondering??

    And is Joe Biden beginning to remind anyone else of Gerald Ford …

    Also speaking of stupidity … the dems most recent ad is bashing people who are not computer literate … or people who dont have cellphones Ipods or blackberrys ?
    oh wait did they think it was just John McCain ???
    I bet John McCain is more computer savvy than the millions of poor and middle class people in this country who cannot afford or use a computer , but they have a TV ( it might be all they have and it just one at that ) and will see this ad .. and feel diminished …

  83. Obviously there are still those out there who wish to see us as Repug sympathizers or right leaning voters. They have no idea who we are or what we believe.

    Most of us are conflicted but united in one respect: We are Hillary supporters who have come most reluctantly to accept her defeat at the hands of the DNC. The overhaul of the current ruling members is our ultimate goal. If this can be achieved by some of us voting for the opposition, then so be it. If this portends an Obama defeat we can live with it.

    The majority of bloggers and posters on this site are devoted Democrats who firmly believe in what the party initially stood for. Anything less is unacceptable. We are publicly stating that we recognize the fraud and the gaming that assisted an Obama “win”. To accuse us of suffering from “sour grapes” is a testament to their lack of effort to accept who we are.

    What is happening here is a parsing of the reasoning behind our support for the opposition. We are intent on sending forth a message: never again.

  84. I described the layout of Ohio a couple days ago. Obama’s numbers in NE Ohio should be a huge concern to his campaign:

    In random calls, the Ohio Poll surveyed 775 likely Ohio voters between Sept. 5 and Sept. 10. The poll’s margin of error was 3.5 percent.
    The poll showed McCain and running mate Sarah Palin with a sizeable advantage among white voters, especially white males.

    McCain was more heavily favored by voters who have attended college, while Obama and running mate Joe Biden had an edge among voters whose education ended with high school.

    McCain also had a big advantage in southeast Ohio (subtext: Ted Strickland, who is from this area and is a proxy for Obama, has his work cut out for him). Central Ohio appears nearly evenly divided.

    The only region of the state where Obama had the edge was northwest Ohio, although Northeast Ohio, where McCain led 48-44, was still competitive.

  85. If the McCain leads and gains in the polls hold true, an Obama victory seems highly unlikely. I’m sure that his campaign advisors are urging him to dump Biden, and bring in Hillary Clinton, which would guarantee Obama the white house. Firstly, will Obama with his massive ego agree that he has made a major error in judgement, and ask Hillary to come on? Secondly, will Hillary accept Obama’a offer?

  86. If McCain gets to the magic number of 50 in Ohio, he has it.

  87. SOD: It has come to a point that I cast a wary eye on the newbies who enter the room waving a McCain flag in front of us. Most of us here who have checked in daily know where we are coming from. I recognize that some of the new posters are those who have left other blogs because of the Obama fervor and the lack of respect shown to Palin. But I do get suspicious when some think that we all are in favor of McCain.

    He is just a vehicle for us to show our complete and wholesale repugnancy toward the Dem Party and their selected candidate.

  88. Pat: You’d rather have a good party and worse government than a bad party and better government? Speaking personally here, I don’t live in the Democratic Party. I live in the United States. The state of government is more important to me than the state of my party, or whether it continues to be my party.

  89. It’s too early to write Obama off.

    Constant vigilance!

  90. Arabella: Agreed.

  91. Thanks for the great comments! – The whole purpose of that interview was to trip her up. There is no way anyone can know everything that the rabid Dems and media expected her to know – a couple of weeks in not enough time to get up to speed on every detail of presidential concern – they are ignoring McCain, just dismissing him by saying he’s about to die. Thats not what she’s running for – but its a position she is capable of. That does not mean instantly ready!
    In school I was always told that you don’t have memorize everything, as long as you know where to find the answers. I still feel that she is the person I would trust and rather see in office.

  92. “I hope Obama does not become a drag downticket to the point of reversing democratic gains…”

    I am not clairvoyant, but I think we are already there.

    “Oh, and Obama’s campaign announced that today “is the first day of the rest of the campaign” and released an ad making fun of McCain’s age.”

    Out with the old….yep, that will help in FL big time.

  93. “We are publicly stating that we recognize the fraud and the gaming that assisted an Obama “win”.

    To me that is it, first and foremost. H will be fine, the DNC I am not so sure about.

  94. Jeepers, if the Obama campaign keeps this stuff up, I will be qualified to join just about every category they have dissed so far!

  95. Pat, are you a Sino-Peruvian Lesbian, like myself? Because that will be next group to be targetted.

  96. There are just so many of us under the bus now we will have no other choice but to stand up. We can all heave that thing onto our shoulders and walk it back to Chicago without missing a beat.

  97. Upstate: This is one category you cannot possibly qualify for!

  98. I hope Obama’s personal attacks backfire. Age isn’t something to mock. However, I am confident that McCain will respond with something better. McCain’s ads have been great.

  99. UpstateNY, on September 12th, 2008 at 10:24 am

    “I hope Obama does not become a drag downticket to the point of reversing democratic gains…”

    I am not clairvoyant, but I think we are already there.

    ——–

    I wish I was Nancy Pelosi’s maid so that I would bring her some polls about the downtickets being affected by Obama. The stupid corrupt DNC leaders had a chance to correct their mistake by allowing a true roll call but no no no, they believed Obama would win even though polls were showing he had lost momentum.

    He is loosing young voters
    http://townhall.com/Columnists/MattTowery/2008/09/12/obama_losing_traction_among_younger_voters

  100. I speak Spanish like many Peruvians….I buy a lot of Chinese products( and love Chinese food)….I think lesbians are people too…does any of that help a little?

  101. pat, but upstate and I both speak spanish, can we be honorary peruvians?

  102. upstate 🙂 great minds think alike

  103. We are GREAT MINDS, Gary, I will agree with you there.

  104. the ad just highlights his hypocrisy. any criticisim of him and you’re a racist. but he can be ageist and sexist and its no big deal. but it plays to his base of brain dead milenials only, so i don’t think it helps that much.

  105. SOD: Don’t let anyone tell you differently. Their campaign people read these blogs. It is where they garner their talking points and rebuttals. The pulse of the blogs is their new “polling sites”.

    When Hillary referred to “The Traveling Sisterhood of Pantsuits” the thinking was that she was well aware of Riverdaughter’s magnificent essay. These things do not occur in a vacuum. They visit here as lurkers and we know the Obots drop in all the time. The force lies here on the blogs. No need to even pick up a phone to guage the temperature.

  106. Downticket, I have a theory that if I am doing something so are thousands of other people, because I am not terribly special. The fact that I have been a loyal Dem for 20 years, never voting R and now I will be voting straight R ticket means that either I have now become “special”, or Downticket Dems have a lot to worry about.

  107. From the USA article above (this is important to me):

    But in her 21 months as governor, Palin has taken few steps to advance culturally conservative causes. Instead, after she knocked off an incumbent amid an influence-peddling scandal linked to the oil industry, Palin pursued a populist agenda that toughened ethics rules and raised taxes on oil and gas companies.

    And she did so while relying on Democratic votes in the Legislature.

    “She has governed from the center,” says Rebecca Braun, author of Alaska Budget Report, a non-partisan political newsletter. “She has in some small ways supported her religious views — for example, proposing money to continue the office of faith-based and community initiatives — but she has actually been conspicuously absent on social issues. She came in with a big oil and gas agenda, which really required Democratic allies to get through.”

    John Bitney, who was Palin’s issues adviser during the 2006 campaign and later worked as her legislative liaison before she fired him, says, “She’s a very devout Christian. That’s a part of her core. But we never put those issues forward in the campaign. She takes the positions she takes because that’s who she is, but when she came into office, that wasn’t her agenda.”

  108. Am I the only one who finds it ludicrous the use of “extreme”, “dangerous”, “radical”…etc. to refer to the candidates for POTUS and VP in either camp?
    O/B and Mc/P are as center as it gets.

    Where is Ronk when we need him?

  109. “The fact that I have been a loyal Dem for 20 years, never voting R and now I will be voting straight R ticket means that either I have now become “special”, or Downticket Dems have a lot to worry about.”

    Mawn, I was a D (and volunteered for Ds) even before I became a citizen. I have been living in North America for almost 20 years now.

    I think Downticket Dems have a lot to worry about. And yes, as far as I am concerned, you are special (in a good kind of way)

  110. Everyone on this blog is special. Everyone who takes the time to voice an opinion and has not walked away from the principles that have been part of our lives. Everyone who stands up in some way to be counted and heard. Everyone who struggles each day to make sense of what has happened to our party. Everyone who questions, doubts, analyzes, refuses to give up. Everyone who recognizes fraud and insists it be addressed. Everyone who believes in justice and accountability.

    Every one is special.

  111. Gary: dot said “before you cut off our noses to spite our faces.” Not your, but “our.”

    Guilt doesn’t work, either, along with insults, lies, etc. I’m glad that the post was edited to take out the link to her website.

  112. “I think Downticket Dems have a lot to worry about. And yes, as far as I am concerned, you are special (in a good kind of way)”

    **************
    **************

    The down ticket situation is very worrisome. The Obama campaign has become a “black hole’ for money and the latest generic Congressional preference poll shows Dems up by 2, which is a very bad number.

  113. I need to get some housework done. And Mawm and gary, before you even ask, the answer is no.

  114. Whatever Palin said or didn’t say, she would have been shredded by pro-BO $$ media.

    I believe the most important thing she accomplished is demonstrating quite competently that she is not scaaaary. That goes straight to the heart of the attack narrative: she’s scary and will take away puppies and abortions.

    (Good grief, her policies as cited above seem less scary in the fundie sense than BO’s current position on federal faith based programs.)

  115. pat, I love your sentiment, but it made me think of this and laugh:

  116. state, I saw at Charles’s site.

    O is in a potentially very dangerous situation here. “Attackin” a R female candidate on character issues rather than policy can be viewed by many Is and Rs as off limits. Obviously for Ds it was OK to so with H, but that was then, this is now.

    If I were him, I would concentrate on attacking McCain and leave the Palin woman alone.

  117. What? Does no one else acknowledge the genius of Neil Leslie Diamond? Well, bite down hard on this stand up sit down Hillary goodness:

    http://www.zazzle.com/clinton_reboot_shirt-235391454949003142?gl=MacFaux&rf=238166362802841545

    Jeez..Massive William wasn’t trying tooo hard to disguise his contempt for B-O after lunch did he now? Hillary 2012.

  118. Pat, love that image!

  119. Obama just lost even more of the older vote, and probably completely TANKED Florida, with that ad mocking McCain’s age and computer skills.

    He is pursuing a failed McGovern-esqe campaign: “We rude youts are taking over and wanna rule teh woooooorld, so move aside you old farts!”

    Um, yeah, that is going to fly. Not.

  120. “Hi Dot,
    It’s good to see you again. I’m getting ready to run out for a couple of hours. But, I wanted to tell you that The Confluence as a site (and nearly all of our authors) have NOT endorsed”

    thanks katiebird,

    “The Confluence and it’s authors are bitter holdouts against Obama. But, we haven’t agreed about who or how we will vote.”

    ok I know, kati, and rd

    “As Riverdaughter frequently (although a little less often recently) says, “Friends don’t let friends vote Republican”
    Since the Presidency is lost to us either way”

    yeah, me too! – even if it is, and I am afraid it is, I am also alarmed that a man who has voted 50 times against clean energy and is likely about to kick the bucket within his 4 years (maybe with help from the Rs….)in order to hand the presidency on for yet another 8 years to another real conservative on clean energy:Palin.

    “we’re beginning to focus on the Down Ticket Democrats who can help us hold the line during the next 4 years.”

    yeah, me too!

  121. delphyne, right, and the “our” instead of “your” only makes it more patronizing. as if we poor creatures have yet to see the light as she did.

  122. Hi,
    I have a question and you all are more politically savvy than I am, so perhaps you might indulge me. Why is Bill doing this, helping O? I worry that he will be a decisive factor in winning over votes. He is articulate, commands a knowledge of the issues to such an extent that he can clearly communicate them regardless of how complicated. In short, will people forget they are actually voting for a MORON and NOT Bill. Thanks! (sorry for interrupting, just anxious I guess)

  123. Gary, heh. I guess God will get quite irate with me, then for “wasting” some of that sperm, if you know what I mean…oh never mind.

    I will now leave in shame.

  124. mawm made me laugh the other day. He said, “I wonder if, when I get into the voting booth I’ll vote for Obama”. I looked at him wide-eyed and said “WTF!!” and he said, “you know like Obama said, ‘you’ll get into that booth and a light will shine down and you’ll do the right thing and vote for Obama’, I want to see the light”. 🙂

  125. wmcb, I meant to ask you before. I remember you alot from Taylor Marsh back in the “old days” before RBC. I was glad to see you join in the conversation at the Confluence recently. My question is where were you in between, Talk Left? I always enjoyed your comments at TM and I’m glad to now read them here.

  126. Well well well he missed me with his latest ad .. this time …. neener neener

    Even tho I am relatively new to blogworlds … I am computer literate , I can build independent web sites without a template; do still and animated graphics; even have my own internet radio station that champions and exclusively plays independent artists …with streaming 24/7 … that stems from a grass roots movement that has changed the face of the music world … it is fun and we are still going with that change .check us out if you get a chance http://www.cygnusradio.com .. but be careful , indie music is addictive …;)
    My first computer was a commodre 64 ….anyone remember those?? Anyone remember DOS ???or COBOL ??
    i am still no expert and LIZ DEXIC attacks my typing regularly …. I can teach typoing 101 hehehe
    However … I got there by being taught by super geeks who took the time to teach me and still do , and I in turn teach others .. that is the original and true nature of the new technological culture .

    Making fun of people who don’t have knowledge is anathema to the true new technological and geeky world , who want every one to learn , and thereby gain more paricipants .. and who fully realise not everyone is with us yet … many areas of the USA or the world dont yet have broadband or wireless ….

    The bo crowd are obviously wanna be psuedogeek new comers …we dont tolerate those idiots well.. … They are such posers ….

  127. upstate, of course they clipped off the best part of that at the end when it shows John Cleese with his wife, alone looking out the window and he asks something like “are my sperm sacred” and his wife says “oh no dear, we’re protestants”….

  128. gary, I didn’t say that. I said, if I see the light, I know we’ve got bigger problems than I had imagined. They’ve put in the kool-aide in the water supply.

  129. swanspirit, I had an Atari 800.

  130. I watched the interview and she did fine. Many of her views are not the same as ours. She is a Republican and not a Democrat. I do not agreed on many of Obama’ position on the issues (its hard to keep track as he is a serial flip flopper), and I am still a Democrat. Obama acts like a juvenile, engages in name calling like a school yard kid, pouts when he don’t get his way. Is this what the American people want and can you imagine him meeting with Putin and the Leaders of Iran and North Korea. That is bad enough, but he would be holding meetings without pre-condition. She does not have very much foriegn experiences, but she is running for vice President and I guess they expect McCain to drop dead the day he goes into office.. Obama has little as well and if he dropped dead we would have Biden, now does not that though just scare you a little.

  131. Mawm, two things happened after Hill conceded. 1) I was horribly depressed for several weeks, and 2) my ancient laptop died.

    I ventured back online to Hillaryis44 after a bit, once I got my fabulous new Macbook, then eventually wandered over here. I remembered that “goldberry” had started this blog, as I’d popped in a few times right after she and I both left the cheeto. I was pleasantly surprised to find all the holdouts like me here. 🙂

  132. jvsp, on September 12th, 2008 at 10:58 am Said

    No claims to being savvy from me but, jvsp, among other things I would say the big dawg is trying to set an example for what being a loyal dem really is.

    And in part to try and recapture the legacy that is due him, the legacy that BO and his rabid, juvenile and r*ce bating supporters tried like hell to trash.

    And because of the way you described him, BO knows he can’t win without him.

  133. FrenchNail: . . .I picked at Joy Behar on Larry King and was absolutly disgusted. Isn’t there enough men out there that it has to be a woman attacking one of the few women in major poiitics.”

    I had the View on in background yesterday; caught Joy Behar saying that Sarah Palin had to do 42 interviews to catch up to Joe Biden – she named many of the interviews he’s done, such as Meet the Press, and had a written list in her hand. I honestly could not believe it and got so angry I had to turn it off. (I never thought I’d be agreeing with Elizabeth; or O’Reilly or any of them for that matter.) I shudder when I think of how many people watch this show. (Barbara said she wasn’t sure there was sexism in the treatment of Hillary.) These women are SO out of tune.

    WHEN did Joy Behar become a political analyst to the point of appearing on Larry King discussing these important issues? The dumbing down of America – my Gosh.

  134. I believe the most important thing she accomplished is demonstrating quite competently that she is not scaaaary.

    Someone sent me an email yesterday with Palin surrounded by pelts and various hunted animal pix. It’s ALASKA you idiots. I have relatives from Western PA who will love that she is a serious sportswoman. Not my thing, but if it is done respectfully, again, none of my business.

    jvsp: Bill Clinton is very savvy. He knows he has to portray an image of cooperation for his legacy and Hillary’s future prospects. For all the talk of Hillary and Bill helping BO, it seems to me that they are doing the absolute minimum and focusing on the Democratic Party. Ultimately, people will be voting (or not) for Obama, not Bill or Hillary (unfortunately). Lastly, it’s pretty late for Bill to make any difference. He’s not even starting until the end of this month.

  135. wmcb, please, we prefer the term “dead enders”.

  136. I am sure the downtickets will be tied to Obama in ads. I have already seen one. “campaigned for the tax and spend Barack Obama. They have a tough row to hoe.

  137. Yeah, “dead ender” is much more favored in the holdout community. We have coopted it and are proud of it.

  138. fif, fauxgressives love to wax eloquent on how we all should respect “other cultures”, but consistently fail to apply that standard to cultures within our own borders.

    Alaska is an entirely unique culture.

  139. Oh for heaven’s sake. Watch the smooth move by O’worshipme. While everyone else lays their rose down in a respectful and dignified way, “The One” makes a “here’s your effing rose” toss.

    SOD: that is so telling! He just does NOT feel empathy. He plays the part, but you can see it in so many moments like this. What a tool.

  140. Hey katiebird, I think if you and this site are going to try to influence readers on how to vote, those of us who argue against voting “present” or expecting others to carry the water, should not be criticized.

    katiebird said “As Riverdaughter frequently (although a little less often recently) says, “Friends don’t let friends vote Republican”

  141. Okay, then I’m a dead-ender. I look forward to the Obama love train being stone cold dead in the end. 🙂

  142. Now, now, lets not overblow the “rose” moment. He may be many things but O is not a monster.

  143. wmcb, you like Carol, are merciless when it comes to O. 😉

  144. wmcb: absolutely. And it is so enlightening to clearly see the elitism and hypocrisy of the left during this election cycle. The condescension is just repellent. I bridge both worlds, coming from a small town (upstate NY), having former coalmining relatives in Western PA, and yet I went to a prep school and then Ivy League. I did not like the elitism in college, and I am absolutely disgusted by the rampant rejection of all ways that are not “up to these standards.” It reveals a profound lack of appreciation and understanding of human nature–the range of talents, skills, and attributes that people have from all walks of life. I love my conservative, hunting, religious relatives. Our politics couldn’t be more different, but they are good, hardworking, generous and caring people. I’ll take that over some insensitive, insular snob any day.

  145. SOD, I believe us gays were the first people under the bus. He threw us under way back in january when he campaigned with an “ex-gay” minister to pander to evangelical African Americans. That and the CEO of the Dem convention Leah Daughtry and Donna Brazile calling gays who seek equality an “affront to the civil rights movement”.

  146. I watched Larry King because someone said a PUMA would be on. Sadly, no PUMA materialized. I wanted to throttle Joy Behar. She was going on and on about the hunting-I wanted to ask her if she knew where the meat on her plate comes from. Then she was hammering Roe. Thankfully, she was only on for half the show. There was a panel for the other half but still no PUMA.

  147. soup and fif,
    So you think Bill will not make much of an impact overall? I see him changing the minds of Democrats crossing party lines and perhaps independents too.

    btw, it is nice to have found this site. The MSM portrays Obama’s win as almost inevitable by the mere fact that McCain chose Palin, etc. It’s nice to find a redoubt of sane people, given that everyone I know has been intellectually bankrupted by the kool-aid. thanks!

  148. Upstate: I don’t agree. Watching him over a period of months, there is just something lacking there in terms of human connection, depth and sensitivity. He knows how to mime it, but it’s just not in his heart. He’s too cerebral, but doesn’t connect with humanity in a way.

  149. upstate, he deserves everything he gets…and NH, don’t take the “friends don’t let friends vote republican” personally. I think that RD and the rest have made it clear that nobody is being asked to do anything that their conscience won’t allow. I think she just wants to avoid advocating any position other than No Obama on top. what you do with your vote is up to you alone….On the top of this page is a banner that says “you own your vote” if that means voting for McCain, there is nothing wrong with that.

  150. jvsp: welcome to the Mighty and Entertaining Confluence. Don’t believe anything you hear from the MSM. The numbers don’t lie–BO has not won this thing. The battle is on.

    People love Bill, but he can only do so much. He is not going to be out there stumping like he did for Hillary, that’s for sure. It’s pretty late in the game for him to have much of an impact, and most people know there is no love lost between Bill and Obama. Bill will emphasize the Dem Party, as Hillary does, but people who are uncomfortable with Obama, still won’t trust him.

    Ultimately, none of know how this is going to play out. That’s why we come here–to watch and discuss day by day.

  151. As far as Bill goes, I think he is in the same place as Hillary – they are trying to help downticket dems by pushing the dem message and also mentioning that voting for obama is just super terrific!

    I think the downticket dems is why they are willing.

  152. Is anyone the SLIGHTEST bit worried that this woman could actually set us back? IF mccain wins and gets cancer for the 800th time or something else befalls him, and she is in charge, or even if she ISNT in ‘charge’ but screws up otherwise…the gaffs we see coming out of bush now….saying the wrong thing, etc…. i have a feeling ppl WILL not think its PALIN…but her kids, her life, her WOMANHOOD that is to blame somehow….i want the first woman who breaks through the ceiling to be CAPABLE! I think that is the ONLY way that the way will be TRUELY paved and easier for more women. Having a bad apple the first go round will NOT make things easier for those who come later. The first black baseball player had to be GOOD to open the doors to more minorities….You cannot just have the parts or be the right color, you have to succeed in the role with which you are entrusted. Just my feelings. I’m still horribly torn in this election…i hate both sides…its a lesser of two evils situation. I HATE THOSE. i dont like obama one bit. I loathe him more as he continues to play the same political games he claims to be above. he irks the CRAP outta me…but i equally loathe the other side. This is a sucky year to be a voter who takes your priveledge to vote seriously. sux to be stuck between a rock and a bigger rock.

  153. Okay, then I’m a dead-ender. I look forward to the Obama love train being stone cold dead in the end. 🙂

    Another proud dead-ender here!

  154. yankeegrrl: go to lynettelong.com and read her great piece about how this will be a break through for all women, regardless of Party.

  155. “i want the first woman who breaks through the ceiling to be CAPABLE! ”

    I could say the same thing about the first AA president. so what’s your point?

  156. off to work, great day all.

  157. that’s the new troll MO btw, get used to “the lesser of two evils” meme.

  158. Excellent point Gary!

  159. Oh, and FWIW – I plan to vote for McCain. I truly believe – as I have said for months – that Washington is more in play than anyone realizes. We had over-run caucuses here. We also have a whole pile of women who were part of a class action against a major aerospace employer for sex discrimination – and won a couple years ago.

    I think there are TONS of feminist women here who may vote in a *un*-predictable way based on the obama campaign strategy of verbally beating the shit out of women.

  160. yankeegrrl? what if the Palin woman has a baby with the cancer survivor McCain ( “800th time, eh”) ?

    Oy yankeegrrl!

  161. NH,

    I didn’t mean any criticism of our commenters who plan to vote for McCain. I just wanted to point out to Dot (who claimed we were a McCain-Supporting-Site) that we’re not.

    ALSO, I’d like to point out to the Trolls that lurk among us, We do allow and encourage discussion that goes way beyond the focus of our posts. And we DON’T delete every comment that disagrees with our personal beliefs.

    At this point in time, we’re a blog for Democrats who don’t support Obama and there are a lot of ways to do that.

    I’m very undecided. And closer to voting for McCain out of spite everyday. But, who knows if I’ll ever actually be able to vote for him….

  162. garychapelhill: Great comeback!

    “i want the first woman who breaks through the ceiling to be CAPABLE! ”

    (gary’s reply) I could say the same thing about the first AA president. so what’s your point?

    There’s a new troll meme out. “Sarah doesn’t deserve to be first!”

  163. Yankeegrrl, She seems a lot more capable than Obama to me, and she’s not at the top of the ticket.

    Obama isn’t qualified for anything except running for office. It is sexist to hold Palin to a higher standard than one would hold Obama, and no one has to die for him to embarrass AAs if he is elected.

  164. Re: Obama’s “rose moment”, while I don’t think it’s a big deal, I do think it is yet another window into his character.

    I had one kid growing up who had a little of that self-centered attitude (not so severe as BO, but still.) There was a pattern of doing/saying things offensive to others, simply by virture of not ever considering how his actions/statement were going to affect others.

    His usual excuse? “But..but..I never even THOUGHT about that. I didn’t think it would bother anyone…”

    As a parent, I nipped that crap in the bud right quick. “Yes, and THAT is the problem” I’d tell him. ” Right in that moment, you didn’t think about anyone but yourself, and that is NOT acceptable.”

    Fortunately, my son has learned that he has to consider others feelings, and the fact that he had no ill-intent does not always fly. Sometimes “no ill-intent” is just another word for “did not bother to think outside of his own needs and emotions, because he is the centre of the universe.”

    No one ever taught Obama that lesson. He has demonstrated it time and again.

  165. Downticket is even more frustrating. NPR, now an Obama station, has been allowing the democratic candidate to base her qualifications for elections on personal attacks against her opponent, an incumbent republican. Her attacks are personal, do not involve the issues nor her stance on them. It is a regurgitation of Obama’s lines. There is no intelligent discourse involved on the issues and how she will change things to offset the sins committed by the Republican incumbent (there are none really). It seems that Dems are beginning to feel that one should elect them just because they are Dems. Or because they are children of Dems. I just can’t vote straight Dem anymore. My party has gone down the tubes. I now look very carefully at each candidate on every level and since I live here, I take the time to go look at their neighborhoods. No more Just Words for me.

    Friends may not let friends vote republican, but is the new Democratic party our party? Will the real Democrat party please stand up?

    I lived in Germany a long time and when the people were unhappy with the way the administration and parliament were dealing with issues they would vote those out for a time even if they did not agree with the politics of the party they were newly voting for. People felt that a shake up would bring the politicians to their senses if their parties suffered defeat. It was a way to get the message across.

    Not voting, or writing in will not help get the message across here, which actually requires a purge of the party of its Chicago machine style politics. Look at us in Chicago – we’ve not been able to really shake the Machine and its dirty politics, nepotism, voter fraud etc for many decades. Little has changed here for the people who need it. Do we really want this in the White House? We have seen what happened to our party during this election. Do we want these same people, who by uniting the executive and legislative will have power to use these same tactics on our country, to be in power?

    I watched the Palin interview last night. Gibson was hostile and condescending, but she held her own. I do not think she has ever been attacked so vilely from so many, including a media that is supposed to be fair, yet she continues to remain calm and poised. I do not agree with some of her positions. But I do agree that keeping all options on the table is fair given how most of the nations we deal with carry themselves.

    NATO is not obsolete because the cold war is over, which in my opinion it is not. Having lived in Berlin for many years, and witnessed the coming down of the wall, and having been behind the “Iron Curtain” and very involved in the struggle for independence of Lithuania (my family fought hard) I read and keep up with all the news from that region. The threat of a second Russian occupation is very real to the former occupied countries and satellite nations. For them, Georgia is just the beginning. With respect to Georgia it’s control of energy sources, with respect to the Ukrain and Poland it is the valuable farmland which were Russia’s breadbasket, with regards to the Baltic states its the ports on the Baltic Sea which Russia has wanted since Peter’s time (Peter said that Russia absolutely need this access to the Baltic Sea for military and trade purposes).

    NATO, however, also serves the US and the Western world. If the US or its territories were to be at war (if we were attacked) NATO nations would ahve to come to our aid. Turkey, which has the second largest army in NATO after the US, and whose army is conscripted, provides a buffer to the north and east, as well as south for NATO nations, but also, in case of a war against the US, a very large and well trained army.

    We would all like to live in a peaceful world, but there are too many people, in too many volatile areas, with a finger on nuclear weapons and a desire to exercise their power. Our position must be fair, yet strong, and we cannot waffle. If your opponents and friends don’t respect you, your negotiations won’t go far.

    I prefer Palin’s statements to Obama’s because at least we know where she stands, whereas he has waffled so much, and taken so many different stands that I have no idea what he will do and whether it will be in the best interest of our country.

    I believe that with a Democratic legislative brach, such as it is, a Republican executive branch will not be able to do much harm, yet may actually reform Washington for the better. Certainly it would at least cause a shake up in our party, and perhaps some much needed reform.

    Otherwise we are rewarding the “new” leadership in the DNC and it will only get worse.

    Perhaps this election has done some good. It has allowed us to learn to think for ourselves, to examine every bit of news with a careful and skeptical eye, to research each candidate and position for ourselves, and to shake up our own loyalties so their are not tied to a brand name, but to the best answer to our issues and desires for our country.

  166. Charles, if you’re around. …

    I just saw that your Palin-Interviews post is cross-posted at No Quarter.

  167. “I’m very undecided. And closer to voting for McCain out of spite everyday. But, who knows if I’ll ever actually be able to vote for him….”

    Mois aussi.

  168. “to point out to Dot (who claimed we were a McCain-Supporting-Site)”

    katie, I don’t think that, I know you guys are Democrats and I know we’ve been through a horrendous primary, and I don’t think Democrats should select nominees in smokey backrooms like this time, yet…………………………………there are worse things.

    Both McCain and Palin are equally dangerous for the environment. And the fact that she’s so young, means it could be 12 years. She is very personable despite being a conservative on energy and eco matters, and could easily take over from him to extend a long stay in the WH

  169. regarding downticket.

    If my choice is between a Democrat who supports Obama
    and a Republican, I’m voting for the Republican.

    I’m doing my homework right now.

    Not fooling around. This “party” is so over.

  170. Dot, please take it elsewhere. you used a commonplace Obot turn of phrase that we find insulting and patronizing, and you still come to push your agenda. I’m very close to banning you.

  171. Moi can email with the best of them…after all, I started out with the Leading Edge model D in the late 70’s or so…once I learned DOS I had to be dragged kicking and screaming to Windows, but that was what communicating with others’ databases and spreadsheets required..still hate Windows.

    Now, texting is something else entirely. AT&T keeps trying to sell it to me and I keep saying no thanks.

  172. dot, I don’t trust Obama on:

    Environment
    Economy
    Taxes
    Foreign Policy
    Corruption…….The list goes on. Name it, I don’t trust him on it.

    Obama is a liar.

    It is not about the primary. Obama would be a disaster for this country.

  173. SOD, I released you 🙂 glad to see some in the gay community are sticking up for ourselves…sadly most of the younger ones are not.

  174. not to mention that if you all don’t get that we’re not “one issue” voters when they throw Roe v.Wade in our faces, what makes you think we’re “one issue” when it comes to the environment. And I second mawm, I don’t believe a word Ethanolbama says.

  175. Personally, O scares me too such an extent that I will be voting for McCain. O will be a disaster. Does it worry any of you that this guy, the most mendacious, disingenuous, and unqualified clown, will step into a position of power of which there are (compliments of Bush) dangerous precedents and increased powers? …don’t know if you agree, but (imho) there seems to be every reason to believe he will be another Bush.

    ..don’t know if this is of interest, but there are aspects articles it details that are troubling.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/us/politics/30law.html?pagewanted=1

  176. dot, let me make this perfectly clear: As far as I’m concerned there in NO greater danger to this country, democracy, and all it stands for than an Obama presidency. NONE. End of discussion. My country will not be put in the hands of a full-blown narcissist ,mysteriously coddled to power by the most radically corrupt political and crime machine in this country, who rigged a primary and grabbed power by intimidation, race-baiting, fraud, and under-the-table deals.

    I would vote for Beelzebub himself before I will let that happen unchecked in the United States of America.

    The only quibble here is whether people will vote for McCain, vote 3rd party, write-in, or sit out.

  177. Biden is no environmental innovator, for that matter.

  178. catarina: I’m with you there – well, at least contemplating it. All dems up for re-election in WA were quick to jump on obama’s bandwagon.

    I’ve also seen part of the re-election strategy of our governor involved playing the race card. She had received some interesting support from the tribal casinos in the state and had approved some state expenses (in return? ) but when she was called on it by her repub. challenger, she claimed it was racist to point it out.

    I probably will vote some 3rd party for governor.

  179. state, penis/vagina.

  180. It is Friday, Pat is cleaning, Gary and Mawm are asking for her help with their house and I am looking forward to a weekend with my mom and daughter, who are coming into to town to take me out for my divorce celebration.

    I watched some clips from her interview and thought she did great, not as great as Hillary would have been but there in only one Hillary and the DNC took that from us.

    Afterwards, watching her get bashed, I wrote on my blog for the first time in months. I am always here. I am just tired of the woman bashing.

  181. britgirls, that was one of my favorite movies.

    Runner!

    I loved Peter Ustinov reciting TS Eliot’s book of practical cats.

  182. Looks like I got moderated – let me out! I forgot and used the r-word…

  183. Please stop it with the “dangerous” stuff, both for O/B Mc/P.

    We do not want to start sounding too much like the Model B-9, Class M-3 General Utility Non-Theorizing Environmental Control Robot, a la Lost in Space, now, do we?

  184. Dot,

    I really think this might not be the blog for you at this time.

    We are NOT undecided in our understanding of the danger Obama presents to our future if he’s elected. THAT is not a subject for discussion.

    Strangers who attempt to engage in that discussion are sent immediately to the SPAM filter. Our fondness for you has kept you out so far. Please respect the mission of The Confluence and don’t force us to treat you so abruptly.

    You ARE Off Topic.

  185. Thanks for letting me out of moderation!

  186. umm good point with the ipod. if mccain can work an ipod, I’m sure he can figure out email. I still can’t work that dial thingy that well…..

  187. Will Bower has a post on HuffPo on becoming a PUMA. Go over to add some positive comments:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/will-bower/my-history-of-puma-from-i_b_125878.html

  188. The following article regarding feminism is great:

    http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2008/09/when-feminism-was-about-women.html

    It reminds me of a time when my mom was raising three kids in the 60’s, and in spite of a Master’s degree and a long resume she could not get a decent paying job. In those days those who were hiring had no compunction about telling a woman that they were not suited for a job, specifically because they were female.

  189. Mawm

    I went to a 30th birthday party with a Logan’s Run theme. All the girls were in green togas and all the guys wore black turtlenecks with silver duct tape across the front. The birthday boy was in an orange prison jumpsuit. We chased him through the neighborhood screaming “Run, runner!” He was so terrified he never came back for his own party!

    Aaaaah! Good times! 🙂

  190. If I was a pol and could get away with it – I think I’d claim ignorance where email was concerned. Can you even imagine how many messages they get in a day? Even with staff sorting through it and responding to the easy stuff…

  191. I tried dating myself onetime. The conversation was a little one-sided. (rimshot) thank you , thank you…i’m here all week…

  192. Logan’s Run was such a funky movie.

    Peter Ustinov and his cats in the Lincoln Memorial 🙂

  193. I did not want Hill any where near this ticket. However the fact she is not there at least as the VP , tells me the Dems don’t want to win or are too stupid to know what it takes. If one looks at the two parties VP pics as a gut check….oops…. Dems lose again .

    Everyone is Ike’s path, please be safe!

  194. The Obot spouse smirked and guffawed at the HuffPo headline that Sarah wants to attack Russia.

    I am spittingly angry at these assholes. I have to remind myself that their attitude is a sign of weakness, no more than whistling past the graveyard. He can condescend and belittle women all he likes, but my vote is mine.

  195. “Perhaps this election has done some good. It has allowed us to learn to think for ourselves, to examine every bit of news with a careful and skeptical eye, to research each candidate and position for ourselves, and to shake up our own loyalties so their are not tied to a brand name, but to the best answer to our issues and desires for our country.”

    It’s certainly done that for me.

    Magda
    NOBlink
    NObama
    NOvember

  196. BTW, way upthread someone mentioned Obama losing ground in WA state. I live next door and in 2004 I contributed $ to Dem Chris Gregoire for Guv. She pulled out a tightly contested recount against Repub Dino Rossi.

    Unfortunately, in 2008 Gregoire was an early supporter of Obama whereas both women senators, Cantwell and Murray, supported HRC. So when Gov.Gregoire sent a fund raiser to me this year I said, sorry, I can’t support anyone who saw political advantage in endorsing Obama. Too bad…she’s in another tight rematch with Rossi this year.

    Just my 2 cents, but that endorsement might be at play in WA, which like OR, is actually a purple state. As Tip O’Neill said, all politics is local.

  197. Magda, amen. I don’t take anyone’s word for it, not from left, right or center.

    As a newly-minted Independent my motto has gone from “Vote Democratic!” to “Earn my vote!”

  198. Reruns, state, reruns….Right! 😉

    I think many O sympathisers would love the “carousel” concept in “Logan’s Run”: when you turn 30, it is time to “renovate”

    Darn, here we go again, I keep making references to “old” science fiction… I have become a “Runner”.

    I better start looking for “sanctuary” and scape the “Domed city”, before the cyber-“sandmen” find me.

  199. Dead on, rd.

    It’s about getting a foot in the door.

    We thought we’d already done that with Pelosi. We know how that turned out. The highest-ranking woman in the Democratic party is a complete embarrassment…a gutless wonder who let the boys in the House set her agenda. With the clearest mandate in years she failed not only to deliver but to even ATTEMPT to deliver.

    Palin can’t possibly be worse.

  200. old dead ender here–and we also had a Commodore 64. In fact, my husband worked with some of the first computers that the Air Force intell. people had. Weird, I don’t see myself as that old in my ‘head tv’ but I guess I am. Should listen to my daughters who say I’m starting to drive like Mr. Magoo…..

    In that clip of Bill and Barry do lunch yesterday, after Obama interrupted Clinton for the second time, Bill got this look on his face like–‘What can you expect, he’s not potty trained.’

  201. don’t know if you agree, but (imho) there seems to be every reason to believe he will be another Bush.

    *****************
    *****************

    Worse..they are both sociopaths but at least Bush has one foot in “reality”
    Obama confabulates a new “reality” for himself whenever his is challenged or stressed. When Bush lies, he gives that FU smirk. Obama, I think, believes his own lies and the thought of him having control of Nuclear launch codes scares the sh*t out of me.

  202. I tried posting a link to “Yid with a Lid”s blog because it has a good analysis of how the definition of feminism has changed over time, especially now. I guess links don’t post, but I think the bittersweet article describes what we went through and what our mothers went through. My mom is now 85, and she said her difinition of feminism has not changed and that it applies to all women of all backgrounds. She struggled against discrimination against women for decades beginning in the 60’s while trying to raise 3 children.

  203. The Dems and Obamabots are in a death spiral. The election is already won for McCain/Palin if the numbers showing today hold or go up within the next week. People say it is to far off to tell yet besides the poll numbers you can almost sense it in the air.

    Like the old weather Admiral in Marry Poppins: “Wind’s in the east, mist comin’ in. Like something is brewin’ about to begin. Can’t put me finger on what lies in store. But I feel what’s to happen, all happened before.

    Bit chancy, I’d say. The wind’s coming up and the glass is falling. – don’t like the look of it.

    Obama, shouldn’t wonder if you weren’t steering into a nasty piece of weather. Obama! Do you
    hear me?”

  204. You know, I hope Bill took him to a soul food restaurant that didn’t carry arugala (sp?). In fact, I hope Bill ordered some ‘greens and hot sauce and grits’ for him—oh, and some ham hocks or fried chicken with gravy. Notice that I didn’t go anywhere near watermelon—but, I love it

  205. dotcommodity
    With all that has happened up until now and Obama’s record and stance(s) how on earth can you possibly think, or anyone think, that Obama is better on any subject whatsoever.

    The only way, and I mean the ONLY WAY, one can view Obama’s position on anything is HOPE.

    I hope Obama will .

  206. When Bush lies, he gives that FU smirk.

    So true. He knows what he is doing and enjoys getting away with it.

  207. the last part got cut off.

    I hope Obama will – fill in the blank –

  208. SophieL, if you’re still here, and anyone else who is considering whether to write in–

    Not long ago, someone else on this blog was kind enough to point me to http://www.writehillaryin.com for state-by-state information. That site has not researched all states, however.

    I suggest contacting your state’s elections division and ask specifically how a write-in vote will be tallied where you live. Some states do not allow write-ins; some require write-in candidates to petition before the election; some count write-ins regardless.

    In my state, a candidate must petition beforehand in order to receive credit for write-in votes. If no petition has been submitted, all write-in votes (either for a candidate or “none of the above”) are tallied together as “write-in” and count towards the total.

    Write-in votes in my state are not assigned to any other candidate. So, for example, a write-in vote for Hillary will not be assigned to Obama.

    Leaving the top of the ticket blank will have no effect in my state because there is no vote to count. But a write-in vote for “none of the above” will lower the percentages of all the other candidates for that office.

    For election information where you live, the National Association of Secretaries of State (www.nass.org) has links for the chief election official in each state and US territory. Go to About NASS > Our Members > Contact Roster.

    NASS also maintains http://www.canivote.org, which includes state-by-state and county-by-county information and contacts.

    Hope this helps!

  209. I should have added that she hadn’t voted in years as Illinois is a Democrat state and being an invalid she felt her Democrat vote wouldn’t change much if it was not made. Even at the primaries.

    That is until Hillary.

    This primary the females representing 3 generations of my family cast their vote for Hillary. And so did the lone male :). As sick as she was she voted.

  210. I like dead ender because it’s inclusive, but I kind of like the attention paid to my being menopausal and low information. I don’t want to lose that distinction.
    Can you guys help me with this?

  211. NH @ 12:13, Obama is the ultimate faith-based initiative.

  212. WOW!

    Those 527 ads are untruthful and taken out of context but I can forsee Obama having to damage control on one or two. I found the Marine one particularly distasteful considering the way the GOP leadership hemmed and hawed over a .5% pay increase.

    That said, it isn’t like I couldn’t have foreseen the 527’s. They are playing chess while we play checkers.

  213. Thank you Riverdaughter for expressing how I feel so eloquently! Charlie Gibson’s approach and attitude to Sarah Palin is like an old, irritated professor who must speak to his female student, who he obviously believes is “dumb as a log” by the way he is treating her, and just throws question after question at her waiting for her to fail. Quick Sarah, who is Jesus and who is Pontius Pilate? It is giving me bitter memories of Hillary and Obama debating with Tim Russert and Tweety, even SNL had to spoof that one. Notice how SNL stopped making fun of Obama after the head writer was dragged onto MSNBO and forced to profess his love for all things Obama? I don’t care if Sarah doesn’t know the name of the president of Belarus! Neither does Obama. John McCain knows. 90% of women voting for the woman will win this election for women now, and for Hillary in the future!

  214. I’m very undecided also on what to do top of ticket, even though I’m in Tx and my vote doesn’t count – Obama will not take Tx.

    But my vote didn’t count in the Democratic primary. 100,000 of us were ignored.

    I think a lot of the new Obama supporters will not bother to vote down-ticket. If I don’t vote top of ticket and vote down I WON’T GET ANY CREDIT FOR MY PROTEST VOTE. It will be countered by those who only vote Obama and not down ticket. I’m still voting down-ticket if there’s even a remote chance a dem can take it, but the whole thing is frustrating.

  215. A message to all you lurking women out there:

    I don’t know about you, but I am sickened by the women who didn’t support Hillary because:

    –she’s too “shrill”
    –she “reminds me of my mother”
    –“feminism doesn’t mean voting for women”
    –“feminism isn’t even about women anymore”
    –“I have a crush on Obama”

    now saying that we can’t vote for Palin because she isn’t:

    –“a real woman,” and
    –women “have nothing in common with her but a chromosome”
    –and she would “set the cause of women back”
    –and she would “set the cause of feminism back”
    –and she isn’t “a real feminist”
    –and you can’t be a feminist and be a Republican
    –and she isn’t pro choice
    –and she isn’t a Democrat

    and the kicker:

    –“It has to be a Democratic woman, you see, or it doesn’t count . . .”

    Go right in ahead, all you women voting for Obama. Keep on finding rationalizations, or irrational reasons, if necessary, to keep women out of the Oval Office. Please continue to be:

    –minions
    –handmaidens
    –second-class citizens

    Please continue to:

    –wait your turn
    –put everyone else in front of you and all other women with you
    –take your seat in the back of the bus

    as you discover new ways to:

    –support your own exclusion
    –invite your own marginalization
    –enhance your own subjection

    all the while:

    –calling Sarah Palin every vile name you can think of
    –cheering on the boys while they do the same
    –passing along false images of her in a bikini with gun
    –never asking how your daughters must be feeling about this
    –teaching your daughters, finally, to be just like you.

    Go right ahead.

    But I take a bake seat to no one. I am second to no one. No one tells me, a woman, what a woman is or supposed to be. No one gets to hold my uterus over my head like a sword of Damocles, and make me tremble and go soft-brained. No one can get me to act against my own interests. No one can make me behave, or fall in line. No one can challenge my right to be a free agent, and to act in ways that enhance my own power and success. No one can fool me into being acquiescent and obedient. Me no act pretty. Me no be quiet. I take my cue not from servants and minions, but from a community I very much admire: I ACT UP.

    You can try to stop me; but I will still and adamantly embrace my own value as a human being. And a woman.

    Magda

  216. Rush *ugh* just said something interesting. He said that the Dems want Obama to push more on his issues. Rush said the problem with that is that his campaign was never about issues. It was always about personality.

  217. *leaps to her feet cheering* Yes, Magda! Preach it Sister!

  218. Dot

    I think Obama’s ego is equally dangerous. I provided him ample opportunity to put country and ego in the correct order. He didn’t.

  219. magda,

    Q.E.D.

    🙂

  220. Magda, RIGHT ON! Oh, and I agree with this article that exposes the REAL reason Democrats are so afraid of Sarah Palin. It is exactly what you just outlined, Magda. They are terrified of losing their control over women

    WHY SHE REALLY SCARES THEM

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/09122008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/why_she_really_scares_them_128727.htm

    FOR two weeks, Democrats and their media allies have leveled scorching fire at Sarah Palin. It’s not having much effect, but they keep at it anyway.

    The latest Fox News poll shows Palin with a 54-27 favorable/unfavorable ratio, which compares well with Barack Obama’s 57-36, John McCain’s 60-33 and Joe Biden’s 51-29. (Of the four, she’s the most popular).

    Why do Democrats feel so threatened? They’ve even stopped attacking McCain and President Bush to launch a vicious and sexist barrage at her that would normally make a feminist angry and a Democrat blush.

    Basically, it’s this: John McCain only endangers Democratic chances of victory this November, but Sarah Palin is an existential threat to the Democratic Party.

    She threatens a core element of the party’s base – women.

    When an African-American like Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell or Condi Rice rises to prominence as a Republican, he or she endangers the Democratic coalition. So would a Republican labor leader.

    And so, above all, does the woman Republican running for vice president.

    Democrats can’t stomach seeing the feminist movement’s impetus for greater female political participation and empowerment “hijacked” by a pro-life woman who espouses traditional values. They must obliterate her, lest her popularity eat away at their party’s core.

    So the Democrats are hysterical in their attacks on her. South Carolina’s Democratic Party chairwoman, Carol Fowler (wife of a national party chairman), said that the only qualification Palin had for vice president was that she hadn’t had an abortion. Tabloids are digging up dirt on Palin’s children. And liberal bloggers have suggested that Palin would neglect her children if she were elected (while the Democratic candidate has young children at home, too).

  221. ooh!!! Madamab has a new play:

    http://madamab.wordpress.com/2008/09/12/the-demfather-a-play-in-one-powerful-act/

    going to read….

  222. One thing I was thinking about the other night. You know how one of the Obot tactics is to say you must vote for Obama because he is the same on policy as Clinton. Remember the interview with Michelle Obama where she was asked if she would support Clinton and she said she would have to think about it seriouly because of “her tone and her policies”. If Obama and Hillary are the same on policy what was Michelle referring to?

  223. Well…one advantage of being old is having been there for some US history. The Obama..the new JFK meme and the Russians flexing their muscles again…Brought back the JFK-Krushchev meeting in Vienna. During that meeting JFK came across as very weak to the Russian delegation. That one meeting was a significant cause of the Berlin Wall being built and the Russians putting missiles in Cuba. JKF felt he needed to assert US power and chose to “Stop them in Vietnam.”

    Obama meeting Putrin..I hate to think what would result from that.

  224. Hey all – new post up!!!

  225. A rundown of the latest state polls:

    Florida
    McCain 50
    Obama 42
    Und 4

    Georgia
    McCain 56
    Obama 38
    Und 4

    Rasmussen Poll

    Alaska
    McCain 64
    Obama 33

    McCain leads by 20.0 points RCP for Alaska

    New Mexico
    McCain 49
    Obama 47

    Alabama, according to a new AEA/Capital Survey
    McCain 55
    Obama 35

    Here is the link:

    http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/09/new_state_polls.html

  226. state, Obama’s journey to the Dark side is complete. School vouchers? Blaming teachers?

  227. damn, he’s worse on education than bush, and the NEA is about the most pathetic organization I never joined as a teacher 🙂

  228. backtrack picked a bad day to start picking on age.
    Today is my 70th birthday.
    I still work parttime on a railroad.
    I still have fun.
    I still can probably out think an obot in my sleep.
    I still have enough sense to listen and learn.
    I have seen good and bad in my lifetime.
    I still believe America is the best place to live and want to keep it that way for future generations.

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  229. Helen – HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

    You rule!!!

  230. Mawn – Obama has been in support of vouchers from the beginning. Nothin’ new.

  231. Standing “O” for Magda!

    These people are pathetic!

    Mawm: After that interview I knew I could never vote for Obama. That woman is toxic.

  232. Why does the teacher’s union support him? Isn’t the idea of pay attached to performance anathema to them? At least that is what my friends who are teachers have fulminated against.

  233. jvsp, the teacher’s “union” is in fact no such thing. They exist only for their own agrandizement. I was asked to join when I began my first teaching job. I decided not to because I couldn’t affor it (especially on a teacher’s salary). In my years of teaching I was harrassed constantly to join, but everytime I would ask what they had done for us….crickets….

  234. WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT HOW OBAMA MOCKED PALIN AT THE FORUM YESTERDAY, WHEN HE SAID “SMALL TOWN MAYORS HAVE LOTS OF RESPONSIBILITIES LIKE FILLING POTHOLES, TRIMMING TRESS AND COLLECTING GARBAGE.” SEEMS HE JUST CANT HELP HIS ARROGANT SELF. I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT MANY SMALL TOWN MAYOR WOULD BE OUT THERE TODAY , PROTESTING THIS PUT DOWN. I WAS ALSO SHOCKED THAT HANNITY EDITIED THIS COMMENT OUT DURING HIS SHOW.

  235. perfomance pay, or even more insidious, sanctions for underperformance is anathema to anyone who knows the first thing about education. How smart is it to give the students (or parents) a tool with which to blackmail their teachers..yeah that will lead us away from the Idiocracy we’re heading for. Plus as a teacher of a undervalued (foreign language) subject, I was the dumping ground for the dregs so that they wouldn’t be counted in the all importand Standards of Learning exams….or whatever they call them where you are. Performance pay will do one thing. Make teachers lie about the performance of their kids…..oh and make the kids even dumber than the glazed over obots we’ve got nipping at our heels to take over the Dem party right now.

  236. garychapelhill,
    Have you suffered repercussions for not having joined? Here in NY they are impeding the passing of a property tax cap even though approx. 70% of the state is in favor of it. Personally I think education is in dire straits. evidence? All the just of age kids that are enraptured by O.

  237. SOD, I am all for unions, the NEA is NOT a union, it is a self serving money machine. If we had a real union we wouldn’t be making the scandalously low salaries that teachers earn.

  238. JVSP, I was CONSTANTLY pressured to join. there wasn’t much they could do to me directly, but somehow, all the other teachers knew I wasn’t a member.

  239. garychapelhill,
    Well doesn’t that create a nice atmosphere that is emphasizes teaching! (sarcasm)

    Sadly, from what I see of university students here, I think there is little reason to be optimistic about education in the US. Critical thinking is dead in the water. Exhibit: the MSM.

    Do you see anything in O’s education proposals that would possibly rectify anything?

  240. This Democrat has absolutely no dilemma about which vote to cast. The left’s sexist evisceration of Gov. Palin sealed the deal.

    But oy, there is no joy in Mudville about being backed into this ignoble corner. None…none at all.

  241. One year retired teacher here-and union member. I love unions, but their power has been watered down over the years. The teachers union in FL. does not have the power to strike. Plus, merit pay decided by principals is crazy–will become reward for the biggest kiss ups. Merit pay in teaching is a problem because of different class chemistrys–some teachers depending on subject taught or grade get the low achievers and behavior problems–typically new teachers. Too many factors involved and most people don’t understand.

  242. Happy 70th Helen. Keep it up, many more.

  243. SoD. “No promise has value.” Ain’t that the truth. I get so tired of the obots screaming that we should vote for Obama because of the “issues.” How can I vote for Obama on the “issues” when he doesn’t appear to maintain a position on anything. I have no freakin’ idea where he stands and I have absolutely no faith that he’ll follow through on any “issues.” The only thing I’m sure of is that he’s not a nice person and he’ll do anything to get elected, including throwing ethics and just plain good sense under the bus. And that’s the real ISSUE as far as I’m concerned.

  244. b mathews, on September 12th, 2008 at 12:48 pm Barry looked down on those fixing pot holes? If only he was half as useful!! lol!!

  245. gxm, on September 12th, 2008 at 1:07 pm

    Nicely said. I can’t even hold my nose to vote for this guy like in the past, because I haven’t a hope in hell he would stand for or do anything about Dem issues. All we would get is more Nancy caving while telling us not to expect anything type of “Dem leadership “.
    I’m not supporting these lunatics with my vote

  246. sod, yeah that’s my puppy macho, he’s 7 months old.

    jvsp, the fact that he doesn’t want to scrap NCLB entirely, as Hillary did, is all you need to know about his education policy. No Child Left Behind has killed public education in this country, which I believe was its purpose all along. Of course Obama wants to keep it because it was Ted Kennedy’s baby. wouldn’t want to offend his patron. but yeah, why any teacher would vote for him is beyond me.

  247. Riverdaughter — it was in one of those middle area grafs in this piece where you edged closer to the raw pain we all feel about Hillary.
    Whole books could be written around this experience and betrayal of our Political Party.

    Hearing The Clash was a nice touch.
    I don’t think many of us will stand by and watch what happened to Hillary happen twice. It HAS something to do with feminism, after all.

  248. Happy Birthday Helen!

  249. You know the Dems need Roe vs Wade in constant danger as much as the GOP want it around to scare their base. I’m not worried about Roe vs Wade, and frankly the Dems need new pick up lines .

  250. I heart Helen.

    Pumas, Bubbas, those people, and HELEN rule!

    Happy Birthday!

  251. Thank you all for your birthday wishes

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  252. garychapelhill,

    “No Child Left Behind has killed public education in this country, which I believe was its purpose all along.”

    Agreed! I have no idea how teachers such as yourself can teach in such a climate of insanity. Respect!

  253. What a nightmare this primary season is/has been. I think back to receiving my Vanity Fair mag with a piece on DUYBA – yeah, way back. 1999/2000. I lived in Houston in the early 70’s – knew how plastic empty the entire Bu$h family was/is. I laughed at the piece because Bu$hit had not an ounce of qualifications for POTUS, plus the well known fact of no moral compass. I was thinking if he could be considered – anyone, absolutely anyone, would be thinking they could be POTUS.

    Low and behold, look what the DNC propped up as a messiahic change candidate – with not one accomplishment to his record. I’m not laughing now. My own party sickens me. I filled out my voter registration change from D to I many months ago. Even though I was reading every sign they(D party) was sending out (overtly since Jan.), I did not want to accept that they were bigger thugs than the other party. That they were practicing more corruption – illegal activity than the party I had come to hate. I just mailed it yesterday. I was into denial, while my words have been strong, my emails, letters and calls, left no doubt that I was right – the whole primary was a charade – I did not give up on my life long party without a real fight to be heard. Now I am thinking it was just a bad “habit”. Now I am thinking I will go back to my original youthful modus operandi – words and deeds must match. Potential will be based on matter of record, what they did in the past. That explains my unwillingness to vote downticket D’s as well as no vote of BZero. I like people who demonstrate and stand up for integrity. I am not attracked to dead beats – those who want something for nothing.

    This campaign by the D’s has been the opposite of any other in history. Whoever is running it is a Neanderthal – hamfisted, narcissistic as a two year old child. Having Hillary and Bill “campaign” for BZero will have the opposite affect – the comparison is so stark between two accomplished, dedicated, knowledgeable public servants to this mockery of a cipher BZero just hits any intelligent voter right between the eyes.

    When people like dot com post here with their claims of least of two evils I cringe. To say there is a lack of integrity and moral understanding does not quite cover it – but, it’s a start. Can you imagine being in a “think tank” for BZero and coming up with “let’s insult damn near every citizen voter, let’s threaten those who do not surrenter to BZero’s “charm”, let’s blame anyone who points out his obvious emptiest on lack of education, wealth, vision, imagination, age, religion, racism, etc. Those who run blogs in support of BZero and never mention the obvious that he is a corrupt unqualified poser – turn my stomach. The hate this candidate has brought out is disgusting. I’m not quoting anymore nor providing links. If you can support BZero – you have a problem using clear thinking, morals and judgement.

    They have changed the meaning of some words – elite means $$$, not the best thinking or strongest or goodness – it simply means $$$. Creative class – give them a computer and they will spin you a tale if the subject concerns a certain empty suit. Old people only stand for needy, out of touch, bitter and can be very unattractive and a real drain. Female – this label is the saddest one – it changes with voter preferrence – has nothing to do with capabilities or accomplishments or character, grace under fire(those are the most scary ones to weak men). Religion – a crutch only – except if you are weathy, creative, educated, famous, black(Rev. Wright/Phefler). The list goes on. I’m not touching racism that now borders on the ludicrious and has set back how I perceive treatment of other groups as well as color only only.

    The supporters of BZero go lower everyday – they blame everyone but him and their approach. IS there not a theory stating negatives do not attract positive? I now look to Nov. 4th as the day of my emancipation. This has been the uncampaign for the unacceptable candidate. Another lesson in life – shite happens. I will deal with it.

  254. You hit the nail on the head again.

  255. All of this talk about Logan’s Run – just looked in one of my bookcases (I love books) – found the original paperback -copyright 1967 – I was 22 years old – OMG -the book was much better than the movie – but then again, the books usually always are –

    BTW – this copy was printed in 1969 & on the cover says – ‘The Most Brilliantly imaginative science fiction novel since 2001…..SOON TO BE A MAJOR MOVIE!…BTW – price of book was 75 cents –

    No wishing for the old days – but would like to go back a few years & know then what I know now – I remember going to a motivational thing back in the late 70’s – all of us were given a 1 inch square piece of paper – the exercise was to write down every thing we wanted to remember if we were able to go back in time & have only this little piece of paper from the future in our hands – was a very thought provoking exercise – every once in a while – I think about it & want to revise my little piece of paper –

    Anyway OT but just a little break from the crappy campaign crap – repeat there

  256. There’s no more room under the bus. It’s so full and crowded.

  257. garychapelhill, on September 12th, 2008 at 12:48 pm Said:

    perfomance pay, or even more insidious, sanctions for underperformance is anathema to anyone who knows the first thing about education. How smart is it to give the students (or parents) a tool with which to blackmail their teachers..yeah that will lead us away from the Idiocracy we’re heading for. Plus as a teacher of a undervalued (foreign language) subject, I was the dumping ground for the dregs so that they wouldn’t be counted in the all importand Standards of Learning exams….or whatever they call them where you are. Performance pay will do one thing. Make teachers lie about the performance of their kids…..oh and make the kids even dumber than the glazed over obots we’ve got nipping at our heels to take over the Dem party right now
    ************************
    ************************

    I have friend who teaches in a inner city school…How is the teacher going to overcome the parents who don’t care and kids who are abused at home? Some how she does…Her fourth grade class is usually the #1 on the eval. tests. Two years ago the other teachers didn’t invite her to the meeting where the children were assigned to the teachers. She was given all of the slowest learners and “problems”. End of last year year…#1 again. This year her class of better, only half of the fourth grade has tested below the first grade level.

  258. Hey SOD – actually, my first taught computer class was in 1976 – learned BASIC – there was no software – we wrote our own programs – LOL – used yellow punch tape & cards – computers were in HUGE rooms –

    I worked for Control Data in the 60’s – computer took up a whole room – used transistors if anyone remembers what they were –

    Memory typewriters, etc. – used to keep up with all of the newest stuff coming out – but since I’ve retired – not so much – most of it is just junk & becomes obsolete so fast that it is a waste of money –

    I admit – I’m one of the “old white illiterates” thrown out of the Democratic Party – not goin’ back til we get it back.

  259. Hey garychapelhill – I’m a strong supporter of Unions – grew up in a union family – but I’m with you – my teachers when I was in grade school, high school were not unionized – when that happened, the school system started down a path to nowhere

    Unions are good – a lot of benefits, etc. that the American people enjoy came about because of those union efforts – that said, there is a bad side too – it is vertually impossible to get rid of dead wood – many of us can relate to having pick up and carry the load for the lazy ass who does nothing but gets paid the same – I really think the teacher unions need to go & teachers need to be paid like rock stars………………..

  260. I started as a keypunch operator in 1956.
    Most of you have never seen punched cards.
    We were taught garbage in , garbage out.
    I still can read a punch card.
    The computer was in a room by itself and sounded like a jet plane when it was turned on.
    One place that I worked had a machine that looked like an old sewing machine. You put the punched card in one side and a blank card in the other and push a key and it would duplicate onto the blank card this was done one at a time.
    Some of you might even know what I mean when I say empty the chip box on a sorter.

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  261. Exactly to defeat Clinton the lazy ugly frog way, Obama CHOOSE and Dean CHOOSE to start a knife fight using identity politics and historic grievance massive blunder massive future harm…..and now McCain using Palin is shoving it down their throats running Obama own campaign against him. And what dose Obama fan club do, LOL, call McCain (Note waste of time with a corrupted political tabloid press core that could care less about truth and TIME stop the fake outrage you had your chance with Obama and BLEW IT) continue…
    a Liar Liar Pants on Fire as we did in defense of the Clinton’s. But yes Clinton should have called Obama a liar, and Clyburn a liar, and JJJ Jr a Liar, and Brazile a Liar, and McCaskill a Liar and Richardson a Liar, yes I would have preferred she had and it was besides the fix by the DNC why she is not the nominee IMO.

    Now many whites are moving to the white party at Dean’s Jackson Jr and Clyburn’s invitation

    Now people who of the old guard joining them at Kerry’s invitation

    And the biggy White Women the largest single demographic in the electorate said SHOVEL IT Dems…. at Obama Pelosi’s invitation

    …………………….none of this was necessary, if Pelosi’s DNC would have allowed the Dem Primary voters to choose the nominee, instead of the DNC rigging the race but the good news is their bigotry diversified the top of the other Party’s ticket and we have a CHOICE

    Stupid just stupid dumb party

  262. like i said…i dont like either ticket. period. I am not giving obama more credit than palin. And i don’t think she is anywhere near ready for primetime. neither of them are. I am fairly liberal and hate the republican platform. i don’t think obama is ready to lead and i dont think he WILL be leading as president. i think he’ll surround himself with others who will get the job done for him. I don’t have confidence in either ticket. period. I think a LOT of ppl are staying home this november.

    The only reason it matters is that mccain is old. honestly if he was a young guy i wouldnt care who the second person on that ticket was. I honestly don’t think i’m voting…i need to check out the other party candidates!!!

    I know if hillary were the candidate MOST would be much less forgiving of Palin. I’m not going to defend her or pretend she is more than she is on paper or that her platform doesn’t matter just because I hate obama. You can rationalize it a lot of ways, but it still is what it is. A GOP ticket that happens to have a woman on it,but no ideas i believe in…and a dem ticket with some ideas i believe in, but a currupt party and a man who stole the “nomination”. It is not a pretty place to be.

  263. SOD,
    Don’t forget Harvard!

  264. A little OT, but…

    The anti-Hillary dems are only too quick to state that McCains choice of Palin was pandering etc. But I think he’s just not afraid of strong women, in fact I was surprised to learn the following from an article in SeattlePi – the data is from salary figures reported by a non-partisan transparency promoting group with respect to government:

    “…One reason may be the under-representation of women in Obama’s highest-compensated ranks. Among Obama’s five best-paid advisors, only one was a woman. Among his top 20, seven were women.

    Again, on average, Obama’s female staffers earn just 83 cents for every dollar his male staffers make. This figure certainly exceeds the 77-cent threshold that Obama’s campaign website condemns. However, 83 cents do not equal $1.

    …On average, according to these data, women in John McCain’s office make $1.04 for every dollar a man makes. In fact, all other things being equal, a typical female staffer could earn 21 cents more per dollar paid to her male counterpart — while adding $10,726 to her annual income — by leaving Barack Obama’s office and going to work for John McCain.

    How could this be?

    One explanation could be that women compose a majority of McCain’s highest-paid aides. Among his top-five best-compensated staffers, three are women. Of his 20-highest-salaried employees, 13 are women. The Republican presidential nominee relies on women — much more than men — for advice at the highest, and thus, best-paid levels.”

  265. I think anyone who has doubts about Palin and is concerned about all the whacko Christian, book banning, no sex ed/no birth control, poorly educated nonsense that has been everywhere should read that USA front page today, watch the Greta interviews in Alaska and watch the Gibson interview. When you look at all of that, there is no way that Palin comes off fitting any of the labels manufactured for her. Her energy policy in Alaska, when you actually get the details of it, is far left of the Democratic party—it is almost socialist in its nature in that she takes the position that gas and oil natural resources belong to the people and they must be compensated by anyone who wants to make money off of them—the people paid first.

  266. State of Disbelief-

    LOL – my mom is 85 and she keeps connected to the world (she’s an invalid and can’t get out much) using the computer. She’s a whiz at Word, not so much at Excel, and can sure get around on the internet. She researches, finds articles, emails, messages etc.

    None of my daughters friends believed it until they saw it.

  267. […] The Confluence:Friday: Democrat’s Dilema […]

  268. SOD,
    “jericho”

    LMAO!

    I will try to dig up the links to two articles concerning barry’s “education”. There is reason to believe that he is an epigone at best. Either way, an Ivy League education a president does not make.

    [where are barry’s transcripts and publications. There is a conspicuous absence of a written record detailing his “thoughts”]

  269. Apparently, Angelina loves Sarah Palin and wants to campaign for her. Someone at BP heard it on the radio. That’s definitely intersting.

  270. Tomas,
    “Will someone please enlighten me as to how anyone who supported Senator Clinton could possibly also support Governor Palin…?”

    They don’t want Obama to be elected.

    Yes, it would be nice to vote according to the issues. However, if the candidate can’t be trusted to honor his promises, etc., the PRIMARY issue then becomes on of character. Moreover, Obama’s biggest claim has been his “good judgement.” So far as it stands with Wright, Ayers, and his failure, as Biden has noted, to put the most qualified person into his VP slot, we can knock that “argument” out of the park. *poof*

  271. @ Magdalena, on September 12th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

    Wow you go Magdalena – great comment!

  272. Toc check out the astrological breakdown of Obama and Palin, go to http://www.robertphoenix.com

  273. Riverdaughter, you don’t have what some may call, an education. Am I right? If you did, you’d know that senators deal directly with treaties. State governors don’t. As far as the governor of a state near Russia:

    You can live across the street from a library your whole life. It doesn’t mean you can read.

    Say no to McSame/Failin’

    Vote Barack and Joe!

  274. mmkeekah: I think you fail to understand the motives of most of the people on this site. I did not support Hillary Clinton because she is a woman. There are many more women I don’t support in politics. I chose Clinton because she was the best and most qualified candidate. I think most of the people on here would agree.

    Yes, there are women out there who will vote for Palin because she is a woman. Oh well. African-Americans did the same when they voted for Obama. It’s identity politics and it will never go away.

    But there are probably many more of us who won’t vote for Obama because of the sh*t he and the DNC pulled during the primaries. Palin just makes it easier for some of us to vote for McCain which was the plan for many of disaffected Clinton supporters anyway.

    And not all of us are voting for McCain. But does McCain offer a better alternative than Obama to some people right now? Yes. You can disagree but respect the choices of the people here and don’t be a coward and comment on a post when 99% of the visitors here have moved on and will not respond to you. Thanks.

  275. Cowardly trolls fill up old threads with stupid comments.

  276. Fox News radio is saying there’s a strong possibility Biden will step aside. What you’re doing must be working.

  277. RD what a great post! I’m late, late in getting here, but damn you have taken the discussion to the next level.
    No one has pointed out that Alaska has two international borders. Brilliant of you! And the point is still gelling in some women’s minds about why it is better to vote for Palin (whose stands on some issues you might not agree with) than it is to vote for someone who is completely anti-thetical to the advancement of women.

  278. Woman voter: Au Contraire. I have a degree in Chemistry. I have taken graduate courses at Princeton while working full time. I don’t have a PhD but I have the responsibilities and the salary of one in a highly specialized area. In fact, it would take me all day to explain what I do and you still wouldn’t get it. It would just be pretty pictures to you.

    Do I have an education in political science? No. I do have some practical experience having run a campaign for school board in my township of 40,000 people. I won in a landslide and was well liked up until the day I resigned in order to fulfill my family/work/education obligations.

    As to who handles treaties, the Senate may indeed approve them but it is the executive branch that sees that they are enforced. I am guessing that Sarah Palin knows more about international boundaries and the real practical applications of honoring, enforcing and getting around them than does Barack Obama.

    You can stay and play if you like but I advise you to never try that education shit on me again. I worked hard to get my education but there are plenty of people on this board without an “education” who make you sound like one of those people who got a liberal arts degree and absolutely no clue what they learned. In fact, some of our most clueless trolls are from the Humanities departments of Boston U, Arizona State University and Columbia University among others.

    If I were you, I wouldn’t test us.

  279. woman voter, you are obviously a delta trying to make it in an alpha world. Senators approve treaties, that’s it. they don’t negotiate them, the executives do. its called separation of powers and in regard to that one, the executive has much more influence. do your homework sweetie.

  280. Uh oh, are the trolls pulling the “me more educated than you” stuff… Oh, that’s so two months ago. Really.

  281. Republican Woman: The person who needs to step aside is Barack Obama. Joe Biden is fine as VP’s go. Not my first choice but I’m fairly confident he’s teachable.
    See Heidi Li’s latest post for her thoughts on a personnel change. I am in total agreement. I just don’t know how one would reasonably carry it out. If I had my druthers, I’d have the roll call vote over with pledged delegates doing what their voters wanted and superdelegates making the final call. Give the VP slot to the loser and let’s get on with it.

  282. BTW. Woman Voter who is really alaskaisclosetorussia, you are not the Woman Voter we have all come to know and love.
    Stop impersonating our commenters.

  283. Woman voter:

    You are retarded. Did I spell it correctly? Sarah Palin has dealt with foreign countries as the governor of Alaska. Which you would know if you could pass a literacy test and read all the articles about Sarah and not just the biased MSM ones.

    She negotiated with Canada for a natural gas pipeline, and the Alaska national guard does military drills with Russia because of their proximity to Alaska. She is also in charge of the United States first line of missile defense.

    Ignorance is no excuse to insult people. I have seen you posting cr*p on the CNN article comments. What does it feel like to be a mindless Obot F@*K head?

  284. Posting this again from the other thread.
    Did any of you hear about the Obama campaign’s latest personal attack?

    Obama spokesman Dan Pfeiffer said today: “It’s extraordinary that someone who wants to be our president and our commander in chief doesn’t know how to send an e-mail.”

    The reason he doesn’t send email is that he can’t use a keyboard because of the relentless beatings he received from the Viet Cong. From the Boston Globe (March 4, 2000):

    McCain gets emotional at the mention of military families needing food stamps or veterans lacking health care. The outrage comes from inside: McCain’s severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes. Friends marvel at McCain’s encyclopedic knowledge of sports. He’s an avid fan – Ted Williams is his hero – but he can’t raise his arm above his shoulder to throw a baseball.

    He can’t use a computer because his arms were repeatedly broken.

    Obama.
    Has.
    No.
    Respect.
    And.
    No.
    Class.

    McCain-Palin ‘08
    Hillary ‘12

  285. Iron Man – I wish your post and quote from the year 2000 Boston Globe article could be shared with all the MSM.

    Thank you, and I pray for justice on this ad attack.

  286. i am disgusted to see how much nobama distorts the facts and blatantly makes up lies when the truth is on tape. Just seeing his face or his hideous surrogates show their faces on TV causes me to reach for the remote to fast forward.

    I am desperate to make an impact on these morons where it hurts. Money and power.

    Riverdaughter: Please start a thread specifically for people to post:

    1. the names/titles/districts/states, etc. of the nobama talking head supporters to vote out of office. (Pelosi, Brazil, Boxer, Reid, etc.)

    2. TV shows to boycott & email addresses to send complaints.
    (The View, Oprah, Keith Olbermann and tingly leg Chris – both demoted but still on the air)

    4. corporate advertisers to boycott and their email addresses so we can start a complaint campaign

    5. publications to boycott & cancel subscriptions
    (us weekly, rolling stone, newsweek) & email addresses to complain & phone number to call to cancel subscription.

    6. hollywood crowd supporting obama

    7. anyone or anything else to boycott

    Also snide comment made today about how nobama has more facebook friends than mccain (that is the reason he should be president?

    SHOW OUR POWER! I URGE EVERYONE TO GO TO MCCAIN’S FACEBOOK PAGE AND SIGN UP AS HIS FRIEND.

    Thanks for listening and hope you will help to get this boycott campaign organized so we can get make a big impact.

    Thanks to all!!

  287. PLEASE!!! HILLARY CANNOT BE OBAMA’S VP EVEN IF BIDEN MOVES ASIDE, NOBAMA NEEDS TO SUFFER DEFEAT AND ALLOW HILLARY TO GO FOR THE TOP SPOT IN 2012. I COULDN’T STAND SEEING HER AS SECOND FIDDLE TO THAT MORON FOR 4 YEARS.

  288. i find it strange how these obamabots come on these sites and try to move everyone back into the nobama fold by strongarm tactics and insults. wow, what an idiotic way to try and influence people!.

  289. Excellent post, riverdaughter. They just don’t get it, do they.

  290. Pat Johnson, on September 12th, 2008 at 10:13 am Said:
    “Obviously there are still those out there who wish to see us as Repug sympathizers or right leaning voters. They have no idea who we are or what we believe. ”

    I’m a Democratic precinct chair, although I have offered to step down if they can find an Obama supporter who wants to take over. No takers yet.

    I also donate a lot of time maintaining web sites for some Democratic organizations I belong to, and donate money to Democratic candidates. While I’m skipping the presidential race on the ballot, I will most certainly be voting for and supporting the down-ballot Democrats.

    I’m a fairly young (56), tech-savvy retiree with free time and disposable income who would have been working her heart out for a Clinton/Obama (or even Obama/Clinton) ticket. Instead, I feel dismissed and marginalized by Obama and the DNC. They want my vote, my labor, and my money, but not my opinion. So, my political donations are going directly to specific candidates — not a penny to the DNC, and certainly not a penny to the Obama campaign. Obama can take his “new Democratic Party” and choke on it.

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