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The Day That Froze America In Time

Still Stuck Here

Stuck

Prior to the attacks of September 11, 2001, newly-selected President George W. Bush was enjoying a fairly decent approval rating of between 50-60%. Then, as he so heartlessly stated, he won the “trifecta.” And America was frozen in time, much as Bush was frozen for several minutes in that Florida classroom after the second of the two World Trade Center towers was hit.

After those attacks, George Bush had the full support of nearly every American – and, of our allies across the world, including Iran, which was led by a much more moderate faction at the time. And what did he do with this political capital? He spent it – and made sure that we would be mired in the 20th Century for the entire length of his Reign of Error.

Bush used Bin Laden’s attacks as an excuse to push America into a bizarre “war on terror.” This was, he warned, going to be a war that would take many years and be unconventional in its approach. What he did not tell us is that the “war on terror” would be used as an excuse to seize an unprecedented amount of executive power, invade a country that did not attack us first, and would actually INCREASE the strength of Al Qaeda and the number of terrorist attacks around the world.

Now, when the World Trade Center was attacked in 1993, Bill Clinton did not go to war. He captured those responsible – as far as he knew at the time – and put them in jail. Other terrorist attacks were also stopped by President Clinton just before the millennium, with very little fanfare.

Yet Bush wanted us to be afraid. In that respect, he and Bin Laden were on the same page (the terrorist wants to terrify), but for very different reasons. When an electorate is afraid, it doesn’t question things too closely. Like, why there were so many warnings about 9/11, but it happened anyway. (The conclusion of the 9/11 Commission was that the attacks were, indeed, preventable.) Like why we are still in Afghanistan. I don’t have any idea what the mission is there. Do you? The Taliban is back. Bin Laden is in Pakistan. What’s the reasoning behind us remaining? Like why we invaded Iraq in the first place, since every given reason for that invasion has been thoroughly debunked. Like why we are spending all our money on two foreign occupations, paying “private contractors” billions of dollars for personnel and services, while there is “no money” to address the burgeoning economic and structural problems of our nation.

And by the way, the site of the original World Trade Center remains nothing but a hole, seven years later. So that moment, too, is still frozen in time.

But perhaps the most important way in which we are stuck in the 20th Century is the very fact of war itself. At this point in time, war is simply an outmoded way of accomplishing international objectives. The advent of nuclear weapons made that eventuality a foregone conclusion. No nation is going to attack another nation if that nation possesses these ultimate weapons of mass destruction. Thus, what we have are either non-state actors attacking nations (like in the attacks of September 11), or nuclear nations attacking and occupying non-nuclear nations for one reason or another.  This type of warfare is almost never successful in advancing the interests of the attackers.

For example, the larger goal of Al Qaeda, which is to establish a Muslim Caliphate over the entire world, will never be achieved. Short-term goals, like terrifying a population, can be achieved, if the leader of the attacked nation wants them to be. But for the most part, the terrorists are a small group of non-state actors, groups of nutjobs who really have no power, other than the power the state grants them.

The other type of war, the invasion and occupation, is bound to become a quagmire unless the invader is set on conquering the occupied, and comes with absolutely overwhelming force in order to do so. Many generals told Dubya that he could not succeed in Iraq without using at least 500,000 troops. He ignored their advice and demoted them, and went in anyway. Five years later, Iraq is a hellhole. Never mind the happy talk about the surge. Yes, our military are, of course, performing extremely well in a very difficult situation, but they can only do so much. What about the people of Iraq? Millions displaced to surrounding countries, hundreds of thousands killed or wounded, a smoldering civil war and insurgency, a government that is a joke, no clean water, no electricity, no jobs. Where is our concurrent Marshall Plan, which makes the people of the occupied country feel that that the occupiers are a beneficent force?

Finally, our modern world is too interdependent now for nations to invade and occupy other nations with impunity. Look at the price of oil, which has quadrupled since the invasion of Iraq. Look at the terrible relationships we now have with Muslims all over the planet. Al Qaeda makes up a tiny percentage of the one billion Muslims in existence, yet we have let this minority rule our hearts and make up our minds about this religion. Imagine if Christians were only judged by groups like Christian Identity, or if Jews were only judged by groups like Kach and Kahane Chai.

This whole outdated “war first, war forever!” approach is something that needs to be phased out, both for its ineffectiveness and for its immorality. Yet thanks to George W. Bush and his Cold War mentality, we are still stuck in the past, unable to move forward.

For this, as for so many other reasons, George W. Bush is, now, and ever shall be: the Worst President Ever.

All peace and healing thoughts today to the victims of the 9/11 attacks, and a fervent wish that we humans of all shapes, sizes, colors, nationalities and religions can move into a more peaceful future, find a way to beat our swords into plowshares, and study war no more.

147 Responses

  1. […] Cross-posted at The Confluence […]

  2. All peace and healing thoughts today to the victims of the 9/11 attacks.

    I got tears in my eyes, madamab. Sadness……thats all. A waste of a gentle and productive life. Have to accept it….thats life.

  3. Tom – {{{hugs}}}

  4. Prayers for all the 9-11 victims and their familes.
    Also for all the military and their families.

    Today is my granddaughters 14th birthday.
    What should have been a joyous day will always be remembered with sorrow.

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  5. I think I started tuning out afterwards, and I’ve been living in Jane Goodall territory ever since, and it’s just gotten worse. I’m a constitutional extrover; it’s hard for me to function properly when I cut myself off from social interaction, other people’s eyes and opinions. I started then; I thought I’d found havens, but they weren’t.

    It became more and more important to me to investigate how other nations defined themselves; I have found one that seems to take a much more durable approach, and one that hinges on something that matters to me like life itself: language. Words. The night before last night, I listened to a few things on my iPod before going to sleep, one of which was a very schmalzy but extremely beautiful love song about seeing your world in someone. I’m not romantic; for a variety of reasons, I do not engage in romantic attachments with people. I’m not wired for it, and it makes me feel like a separate species sometimes, like a human that doesan’t need to eat or sleep or something. I fell asleep imagining myself in the temple at Abu Simbel, surrounded by the written word on every spare surface. That’s where I see the world, and it’s the only thing that’s ever made me feel the exact same feeling as the singer in that song was talking about.

    And no one else seems to do it. Words li,e words twist, and I’m surrounded throughout my entire life by people who pick up what I see as diamonds and use them to kill people. It’s always been happening, but I’m seeing everyone doing it. I’m sick of it. I want to stick my hands over my ears and tell everyone I know — absolutely every living creature around me anymore — to just SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO AWAY! I’m so attuned to human communication that, when it becomes powerful, it’s like standing in front of a jet engine, and I just want to run off and make everyone shut up. You’re my friend? I don’t care — I don’t want to hear you or look at you. Family? Stay away, thanks so much.

    I think that was when it hit me, that day and every day since then, that we were nothing at all, just another country, another blip in the long span of history, and that NO, it wasn’t going to be different for us because we’re different. Other empires have fallen, and no one knew about it, no one suddenly realized the error of their ways. No one will now.

    No one will ever realize what 9/11 was, no matter what. Neither Americans nor anyone outside this country. (Theya re as ignorant of us as we are of them, believe you me.)

    No matter who gets in, things continue, people die or are killed, no one realizes what it all meant because it doesn’t mean anything. It’s history, and we’re embedded in it.

    If McCain gets in and cleans things up a bit, no one will thank him. If Obama gets in and starts a reign of terror, everyone will (for a while) just conclude that the dead bodies that pile up around him must all have been Klansmen and foul evil Bushlovers. If Hillary got in, she’d have cleaned up things very nicely, and gotten precisely the thanks her husband got for being so brilliant — a foot up his ass and a brick to the head thrown by the people he helped.

    I wish I had something uplifting to say. The only uplifting thing I’ve found is to read a gooda mount of history and to recognize that this is just another chapter in a book someplace that will bore students in 500 years time.

  6. OT and pulled up from end of last thread, but it’s worth discussing. Did anyone see this?

    Bill Clinton says Obama will win handily.

    http://www.thepage.time.com

  7. Sorry for that. Error in judgment. That’s why I don’t talk about things like this — because when I do, no one much wants to hear it, especially me.

  8. Of course, Obama will win handily–if he cheats.

  9. Well, I won’t get into a political debate about 9/11 on this day. I’d just like to remember two of my friends who were on Flight 11.

    RIP, Phil Rosenzweig and John Wenkus. You are not forgotten.

  10. Ew I hate him anywhere near my President.

  11. Janis – If you’re saying that history is written by the victors, then yes, I agree.

    That’s why I think it’s important for us to be doing what we’re doing. At least our words will be out there. If people choose to ignore them, that’s up to them.

  12. Sorry for your loss Dave.

  13. Please, I am requesting all of you, dont get Obama elected. He is more dangerous than you think. Either Hillary or McCain. No Obama. He will bring international tensions. And he is bad for america, too.

  14. Very interesting post, madamab:

    I grew up in England. We were routinely evacuated from school when someone would call in a bomb scare. Never remember even blinking about it. Maggie took such a strong stance against the IRA that it just kind of rubbed off on everyone else.

    I’m not downplaying 9/11 … I was here in the States when it happened and was terrified along with everyone else. But I do agree with you that it was in Bush’s interest to further that terror.

    Short-term goals, like terrifying a population, can be achieved, if the leader of the attacked nation wants them to be.

    Contrast Maggie’s response after the Brighton hotel bombing where 5 people died, but they still went ahead with the Conservative Party Conference that day:

    Margaret Thatcher: “The fact that we are gathered here now—shocked, but composed and determined—is a sign not only that this attack has failed, but that all attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing

  15. […] The Day That Froze America in Time […]

  16. fif, on September 11th, 2008 at 2:36 pm Said:

    That may mean that Obama’s internal polling is pretty bad..

  17. democrat Lincoln Chafee calls Palin a “cocky wacko”

    “People were coming into my office, phone calls were flooding in, e-mails were coming in, ‘I just sent money to Obama, I couldn’t sleep last night’ — from the left. To see this cocky wacko up there,” he says to laughter.

    He also thinks she has been a boost to the dems

    The former Rhode Island Republican Senator who supports Obama tells a D.C. crowd Palin’s selection has had the unintended effect of energizing the Democratic side.

    are they really that dumb?

  18. Lincoln Chafee is a Republican Obama supporter…yes, there are a couple of them out there!

  19. whoops, I meant Republican or is he ex-republican…I guess he’s just Obamacan now…

  20. Obama will only win if he cheats. That is his only ticket to the WH. I hope McCain camp is ready for the Chicago thugs

  21. This race continues to be so close and I have such a fear of Obama taking the Oval office that sometimes I can’t sleep, I can’t concentrate on other things and I can hardly wait for it to end. When I hear people say they won’t vote for Obama but they can’t bring themselves to vote McCain Palin, I understand but I just feel more panic. The third party candidates make the election more perilous for McCain. I definitely am not philosophically and politically for McCain but there is some core there that is desperately missing in Obama. I just tell myself to trust the process. Then I remember that is how McCain was knocked out in 2000, how HRC was knocked out this year. I wish sometimes that I had the disengagement most voters enjoy. Maybe I would not know what is going on and I would not care.

  22. Beautifully done, Madamab. I must concur with a statement of Tom Freedman’s when he appeared on Charlie Rose saying “his day is the 4th of July, not September 11th…” to him September 11th is the day between September 10th and September 12th. My sentiments exactly, that’s all in the past. The future is now.

  23. Downticket – Uh, McCain has not even begun to fight Obama. All he’s done is unleash the Sarahcuda. He knew how crazy it would make Obama.

    McCain and the Republicans have forgotten more about dirty fighting than Obama ever knew.

    He doesn’t have a chance.

  24. Jangles: You’re reading my mind there, friend. I’m right there with you, wishing I didn’t care.

  25. Elixir – Yes, we must move on, always honoring the victims of the attacks, but becoming a more just, generous and fair nation because of them, not continuing to knee-jerk into more and more war.

  26. I’d like to remember Ray Downey. I lived in OKC when we were victim to a bombing there. Several of my family were injured and all the rest of us volunteered. I met Ray Downey and talked with him many times. Saw him climb around in the terrible rubble till he was covered with dirt and bemoan the fact that he’d done his twelve hours and they wouldn’t let him go back in. The NYC fire fighters who came there to help out were the bravest of the brave. The day they had to leave they wept while they were loading up on buses out of town because they didn’t feel the job was done and they had to rotate out. I didn’t see any other team quite so dedicated.

    It broke my heart to find out that Ray Downey the man I’d so admired in OKC after all that he’d gone through had rushed into harms way once again and this time it had cost him everything.

    Ray and family, you’ll never be forgotten.

  27. Thanks to everyone for sharing your remembrances, and good, healing thoughts to you all.

  28. Jangles, right now, the flow is with McCain. He is in the driving seat, not Obama. Don’t worry, looks like the old sly maverick knows exactly what he is doing. He is pulling out each card at exactly the right moment. McCain is almost a genius at this. I think he will pull it off. Every poll and trend favours McCain now.

  29. Janis, are you a Schopenhauer fan?

  30. I remember that day. I was in limbo between Bar Exam and Bar Exam results.

    I was hungover and just waking up (California time) and reading my email when a friend called. She said “Turn on the television.”

    I said “What channel?” and she said “Any one, it doesn’t matter.”

    I turned on the television in time to see the second tower fall. I knew immediately we had been attacked and thought “Somebody is gonna pay” I was even glad (briefly) that G-Dub was our President, because I knew there would be no question of retaliation.

    Up until we shifted attention to Iraq and let Osama escape, I thought G-Dub was handling the situation well.

    Bush squandered an opportunity to be considered a “great” President. He wasted all the international goodwill and sympathy we recieved.

    He also used the attacks as an excuse to increase his own power, and to gain advantage for the GOP.

    We are a big, free, and relatively open nation. We can never prevent something like 9/11, we can only deter it. No nation would have tried it, it took a stateless group of radicals.

    Until 9/11, the worst terrorist attack on US soil took place in Oklahoma City. I’ve been to the OK City memorial. My dad and stepmom lived in Norman OK (just a short drive south) and one of my sisters was in OK City that day, and could hear the blast.

    In both cases, the terrorists did not succeed at their ultimate goal. They only succeeded at killing innocent people.

  31. Troll alert on Gary’s Change thread from yesterday. They are threatening us with our uterus again.

  32. The Obama supporters are so disconnected it’s stunning. The more comments they make like Lincoln Chaffee, the more they fuel the Republican base. Cybill Shephard, another intellectual luminary, is judging Bristol’s marriage, suspecting that it is forced. Guess what Ms. Hollywood Personified: it’s none of your f*cking business! Isn’t that what Hollywood folks are always screaming? And I just heard Matt Damon’s comments on the radio. He used the stupid theory that an actuarial table shows that McCain has a good chance of dying. Wow–are they reaching or what? And then he insults Palin, yet again, by saying it’s “like a bad Disney movie–hockey mom has to step in and be President.” Did they miss the part about her being a successful Mayor and Governor. And the ultimate irony is they are endorsing a candidate with even LESS experience!

    Ahhhh save me from all this idiocy!

  33. Obama is lying about the sex ed bill. The very first paragraph reads:
    ” Each class or course in comprehensive sex
    education offered in any of grades K 6 through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV. ”
    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=3&GA=93&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=99&GAID=3&LegID=734&SpecSess=&Session=
    That is unambiguous. Maybe Obama didn’t bother to read the bill before he voted for it?? No wonder the bill didn’t pass. Just specifying that instruction must be developmentally appropriate or allowing parents to opt out isn’t enough. There is NO developmentally appropriate way to teach five-year-olds about STD’s. (And child development is my area.)

  34. fif: Let them do themselves in. Look at how all the lovely Hollywood glamor helped Kerry to win, oh wait he lost too.

  35. Myiq –

    In both cases, the terrorists did not succeed at their ultimate goal. They only succeeded at killing innocent people.

    That’s right. And they never will succeed in their goals. And if we had a better President, none of the terrible stuff that happened afterwards would have happened.

  36. Janis I often feel the way you do. But being an introvert, when it gets too much, I turn off my hearing aids (which I’ve worn since I was a kid) to shut things out.

  37. madamab..
    beautifully written thank you ….so much

    My son was in Qatar at the time and all communication was cut off .. I was frantic …because up to that point I could call him on his cell phone anytime . He did come home right as the war started… for which I am forever grateful , but every time I hear of another fatality of the war
    , I know deep inside it could have easily been my child .. and a part of me cries out it didn’t have to happen this way

  38. Here’s a new one–open mouth, insert foot, from Illinois Gov. Blagojevich:

    Obama-backing Illinois Governor says a governor is better prepared for executive office than a legislator.
    “The reality is, governors every day have to make decisions for better or for worse… And it’s a position that is like what you’re going to do when you’re president. Legislators, they do different things. They debate and they pass their bills back and forth

  39. One other thing – I’m inclined to be somewhat forgiving of Bush and Co. for not doing enough to prevent 9/11.

    Yes, the warnings were there, but hindsight is always 20/20. I don’t doubt that Bush would have taken action if he was convinced of the danger. It wasn’t Bush’s fault that he wasn’t up to the job of President. Millions of Americans knew he was stupid when they voted for him

    Pearl Harbor was obvious in hindsight as well., and nobody thinks FDR was stupid.

    That doesn’t excuse the people who made the attacks.

  40. myiq2xu, Bush squandered his international image. He was in my opinion, one of the worst POTUS. Too unilateral, and bullying other countries to support him. Thats bad. When others tell me McCain is bomb bomb Iran, I tell them Obama is bomb bomb Pakistan. But Pakistan has nukes. so thats even worse. Obama is bad for leadership.

  41. The polls are close and it’s still early. There is plenty of info out there that you have to ask yourselves why is Obama getting 48+% of the vote? Why isn’t he in the teens or at least in the 30’s. There are too many people who don’t see through the lies of this empty suit. The MSM is very effective because people are not questioning.

    I will not stop worrying, or get a good night sleep until, and if , Mccain wins.

  42. I blame the damned Supreme Court for Bush. And Donna Brazile. She is the well from which all these horrible executive decisions spring forth. Future reference: Anyone who says ignore Bill Clinton needs must be fired.

  43. myiq – Gotta disagree with you on that. It is Bush’s fault he was too stupid to be President. No one was forcing him to run. And, he could have let McCain have the nomination.

    Besides which, he was absolutely aware of the danger. Don’t forget the August PDB, “Bin Laden Determined to Strike.” After it was read to Bush, he said, “Okay, you’ve covered your *ss.”

  44. Swanspirit: My son left August 3, and we have all been praying that he won’t have to go to the sandbox. I just found out this morning though, that all the training is over and he has been told to get his gear together, they leave on Monday.

  45. I’m saying history is written by idiots. Nothing more.

  46. NH – Where is this information you speak of? The blogosphere? Because if you read the papers or watch TV, it doesn’t exist.

    Joe and Jane America will need some well-targeted ads to break through the corporate media firewall.

    Nonetheless, I think Obama’s polling is way off. I just can’t worry about it at this point – gotta keep on keeping on.

  47. Bill Clinton is the best president america ever had. No doubts about it. Such a wise president. and Hillary is the same. Obama honestly scares me. He cant stand up to an alaskan governor, do you really think he can stand upto Putin or Ahmedinajad or the north korean leader. no how, no way. Obama just does not have the experience. A talented orator, should have been hillarys VP and learnt the ropes. too late now.

  48. TheRealKim I hope he returns to you safe and sound and I wish they all would come home tomorrow .. and it does appear that the violence is much lower and they will be coming home sooner than we hoped …

  49. Janis – We are in total agreement on that one, sister. Just know that there are good and healing words out there too, as is the truth.

    And, you are among friends.

  50. At NY Times, Gail Collins calms panicky Dems – yes, even those saying “we should have picked Hillary”
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/gail-collins-explains-it-all-predictions-and-bias/

  51. Shit school alarn sounding. I’m out of here. Ike sucks!

  52. Swanspirit – ditto your wishes to Kim…

  53. Stay safe, Regency!

  54. “Like, why there were so many warnings about 9/11, but it happened anyway. (The conclusion of the 9/11 Commission was that the attacks were, indeed, preventable.) Like why we are still in Afghanistan. I don’t have any idea what the mission is there. Do you? The Taliban is back. Bin Laden is in Pakistan. What’s the reasoning behind us remaining? Like why we invaded Iraq in the first place, since every given reason for that invasion has been thoroughly debunked. Like why we are spending all our money on two foreign occupations, paying “private contractors” billions of dollars for personnel and services, while there is “no money” to address the burgeoning economic and structural problems of our nation.”

    To me it is crystal clear—all of this (and much more that we have seen) is the work of America’s enemies working to destroy the success of many Americans (the Founding Fathers, all soldiers when war was the only way known, Lincoln, FDR, etc.) and the brilliant foundations established throughout the few centuries that the USA has existed, to make this a strong and prosperous nation. Bush is just a lowly idiot pawn in this game, IMHO.

    Hillary is aware of the game, but right now, the terrorizers calling the shots have maintained control, through their subtle terror tactics.

  55. I can’t stand to see Obama next to Bill Clinton. We are going to put him to work, blah blah. Just remember McCain was the one carrying his own suitcase, with no support from his base, he still won the nomination,Romney had all the cash and most of the backing. Sarah came in like a breath of fresh air, I believe the American people will do right in Nov. & kick THE ONE to the curb, and vote with their hearts.

  56. Hey, look Bill likes Barack, who’s Black, so Bill likes Black people again. He’s not a racist after all! Who knew?

  57. Hey, look Bill likes Barack, who’s Black, so Bill likes Black people again. He’s not a r^cist after all! Who knew?

  58. ****Can this be right***?

    If 18,000,000 people voted for Hillary (half of the Dem pool), and a quarter to a third aren’t going to vote for uhbama, HOW is he polling above/near McCain?

    Is it the poll samplings? This can’t be right….

  59. Karolina NYC – You mean the megacorporations? Yes, I agree. They are all desperate for Obama to be President because he is their latest pawn.

  60. Please understand, terrorism is very real. Iraq was a huge mistake. But do not underestimate the power of the Islamic terrorists. America should remove all terrorists elements in Afghanistan. That takes time and effort. Iraq is a bad strategic move. And Pakistan, which is in a political flux, and being the only muslim nuclear state is in a worse state. So America should tread carefully among all these landmines.

  61. They’re probably weighting Dems incorrectly. Remember a high number of dems have dumped the party and gone Indy. But they won’t know that until the election so the polls will continue to be incorrectly weighted.

  62. That is amazing Regency , i am so relieved to know that !!!!

  63. Why are there healing words? When the Sabine women were raped, do you think they imagined history would shine some special light down on their suffering, and that the heavens would part and divine forces come to their aid, or that everything would work out okay because they were special?

    I want good food, nice music, my mom safe and sound, and everyone else to just go away, including a lot of people I once had respect for. People who are now finding it easier to slander their parents as racists and break land-speed records calling themselves feminists once it becomes consistent with shredding some fucking bitch bimbo with a stay-at-home-husband who looks better than they do.

    I’m off the blog for the day, sorry. Not a good day.

  64. Tom – Easier said than done. I agree with the sentiment, though. 🙂

  65. Mmm, I need hurricane season to end already,

  66. I still cant believe that Hillary is not the democratic nominee. She is best suited to be president. Excellent in all fields – foreign policy, domestic policy, healthcare, boosting the economy etc. She would have made a great president. Ofcourse, I side more with Bill, cos that man is tooooo good. He could have president of the whole world, honestly. Its saddened me when he was called a racist. Believe me, he doesn’t have a racist bone in his body.

  67. It seems pretty obvious to me that Bill want to repair the damage that Obama did to the Clinton name in the AA community. So he’ll get out and stump for Obama. The way I see it, he’s just using Obama … and he only has, what, 50-something days to do it before Obama’s completely irrelevant.

    Whoooops! That sounded cocky of me.

    Back to “constant vigilance.”

    ;-D

  68. destardi – I would guess you’re not a fan Rush but I heard his explanation of “polls” and I think he may be onto something. To paraphrase Rush, polling is a product and the best way to sell that product is to always have the race close and exciting. According to him, they mean nothing until a week or two before the election when they weight them evenly to reflect accurate results because they all want to be able to say they were right afterwards.

  69. This day tore a hole in the soul of this country , and we are beginning to heal ..but we cannnot fully heal with the ongoing war ….. that was one of the reasons I so deeply wanted Hillary … I know she could have put us on the healing path in so many ways……..
    I am weary of seeing this great country derailed like an old rusted steam engine …when we have so much power to be truly magnificent within our grasp …
    Throwing away the principles upon which we were founded … …as the democratic party did would only continue the decay from within … and would not help us heal .

  70. I think I need to go lie down in a darkened room with a washcloth on my forehead. It is a burden knowing the contempt in which my own party, my fellow ‘liberals’, my own spouse hold me. And I return the contempt. It’s making me sick.

  71. Bush is too stupid to know he’s stupid.

  72. Typical R., very interesting point. Rush is loathsome but has a sharp business mind.

  73. Bush isn’t stupid. He’s clever, crafty, and completely disinterested in thepeople of this nation and their problems. That and he’s inept. But stupid? No, you don’t steal elections successfully by being stupid.

  74. Typical – I agree that the media is playing a game here. Let’s face it, a lot of us see what’s happening with both candidates and feel we know the outcome already. These polls are just a way of keeping our eyes on the screen, and our money going to the advertisers in the face of a possible foregone conclusion.

    Plus, there may be a big element of wishful thinking in the media’s constant, desperate pushing of Obama. They want their Precious so badly….

  75. And I think Obama believes he is using Bill and can discard him after the election.

    We’ll see.

  76. If Obama had run on issues he would be blowing McCain away. (Actually, Hillary would be blowing McCain away, but you know what I mean)

    Obama ran on slogans and personality/imagery

    That’s the GOP’s game, their field, their rules.

    Buh-bye Barry! Thanks for playing, enjoy the wonderful consolation prizes.

  77. Oh swanspirit, ugsome, I’m so sorry that you are hurt. Bless you both.

  78. Plural – After Obama loses the election, I am sure Bill will throw him under the bus.

  79. Bill roll the bus over him, repeatedly. Don’t you know he’s in the driver seat?

  80. Hillary and Bill aren’t campaigning for Obama.

    It may look like it and sound like it, but they are starting the 2012 campaign.

    Every speech she gives, people ask themselves “Why didn’t we nominate her?”

  81. SOD – Where is this video?

  82. sod, yes, a major feeling of superiority.

    But he always seems that way to me.

  83. Obama has to loose this election. No way should he win. If he wins, both the repubs and dems will never respect women again. They’ll take you all for granted.

  84. Janis, on September 11th, 2008 at 2:33 pm Said:

    Sorry for that. Error in judgment. That’s why I don’t talk about things like this — because when I do, no one much wants to hear it, especially me.

    No, you’re wrong about no one else wanting to hear this. Over the past few months, those thoughts have been close to what I’ve been thinking/feeling,

    You shape words quite beautifully – I hope you will continue to post and, perhaps even to blog.

  85. This is from Rasmussen, I couldn’t find the data listed for gallup. Seems to illustrate Rush’s point…

    For September, the targets are 39.7% Democrat, 32.1% Republican, and 28.2% unaffiliated (see party trends and analysis). For the month of August, the targets were 40.6% Democrat, 31.6% Republican, and 27.8% unaffiliated.

  86. Obama was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He had to diss Bill to beat Hillary.

    He should have waited, used his campaign to set him up as VP, then ran in 2016.

    Now he’ll get nothing but the agony of defeat.

  87. madamab:

    Excellent post. Thank you.

    This and Regency’s school alarms going off got me thinking back to growing up in the UK. We got evacuated all the time because of bomb scares.

    I totally agree with you that Bush had an interest in keeping us all cowed with fear.

    God, it’s just a tough day today even thinking back on it.

  88. The Religious Lynching Of Sarah Palin

    Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite, Supporter of Barack Hussein Obama

    Palin: Is She Subject to Her Husband?

    “Wives be subject to your husbands, as unto the Lord.” So says the Christian scriptures in Ephesians, 5:22. What I would like to know, first of all, is who is going to have the final authority as Vice-President if Sarah Palin is elected, Palin or her husband? In fact, I think the first order of business with Palin is to ask her to give the same kind of speech that was demanded of John F. Kennedy re his Catholicism. Kennedy said he would obey the Constitution over the Pope. Will Palin obey the Constitution over her husband?
    http://countusout.wordpress.com/
    Now This Is INSANE

  89. Typical Republican, on September 11th, 2008 at 3:47 pm Said:

    Thank you for responding to my ‘question’ (the only one to do so).

    Nope…I’m not a fan of Rush at all.

    I WILL be voting for McCain/Palin this time around, but I still side with ‘progressive’ issues. With that said, I believe Rush and Keith Olbermann are of the same cloth, but just mouthing different words.

    They are both generally hurtful to America, and boiling things down to US VS. THEM every damn time, is disingenuous, and simply causes ill-feelings to lead us to what we’ve got now.

    I’m not thinking democrat anymore…I’m thinking ‘lesser of two evils’; and it’s not always Dems, as we can all plainly see.

  90. I hope Obamanation keeps attacking Sarah Palin on her religion.

    Then McCain will win in a landslide

  91. I got one source in the McCain campaign. My cousin-sister. She tells me that the campaign manager (steve) I think, is a genius. Also he is taught by Rove. She assures me that there is no way McCain can loose. and that McCain has too much bad stuff bout Obama, but they are waiting. I dont know all the reasons. She says wait and see how McCain wins.

  92. Hope they dont leak all the bad stuff. Let McCain win honourably. Not with dirt.

  93. tom, yes there is a way McCain can lose: Overconfidence on the part of his supporters. Thomas Dewey lost in 1948 to Truman because everyone said he couldn’t lose. (Not that this was necessarily a bad thing, but it is an historical fact.)

    Take nothing for granted.

  94. My mommy lets me wear big-boy panties sometimes.

    [edited for clarity and truth]

  95. Typical Republican, on September 11th, 2008 at 3:56 pm Said:
    —————————-

    Thanks! Yea, I’ve seen polls weighted like that. I’m not pollster, so I just don’t get how they can pass these sorts of polls as valid?

    Something just doesn’t seem right. I don’t buy uhbama is this supported/loved.

    I know that ASK, Axelrod’s “manufacterer of public opinion” specifically creates illusions of high public support, but it’s amazing it works on a national level…inclusive of the media.

  96. myiq – What I am finding absolutely astonishing is the assumptions by so many on the “left,” men and women, who think it is perfectly fine to judge Sarah Palin because she did not act the way THEY thought they would act in the situations she faced. Like, her special needs child, or her young, pregnant daughter.

    I mean, who the f*ck do these sh*theads think they are? Some of my friends are even syaing these things about Palin. How is it any of their business?!

    Personally, I am much more worried about Obama hanging out with terrorists and r*cist nutcases like Reverend Wright, than I am about how Sarah Palin conducts her personal life. Christ on a cracker.

  97. There are roughly 11 million more D than R and D are being registered every day. The Polls that are weigted like Rasmussen are considered more reliable. I’m no expert but weighted means that if they ask 500 R and 500 D they they will count the D as 550 and the R and 450 since there are more D than R.

    madamab there were what 17 debates plus Rev Wright. People have enough to see what a snake oil salesman he is. Maybe I have a nose for this kind of manipulative jacka## but I would have thought by now people would at least recognize he does not have the experience for the job.

    I guess its all going to come down to the debates.

  98. NH – We will see! My hubby and I literally cannot stand to hear Obama talk. The phoniness just oozes off of him.

  99. In the debates, even if Obama does fabulous, and McCain is just ok, thats not a problem. In my opinion, Palin should stand upto Biden. Thats when McCain gains solid ground. I want Sarah to do fabulous. Once that happens, its curtains for Obama, However well he does against McCain. But if Obama goes uhhhhhmmmmm, thats it.

  100. madamab, this is a very powerful post. Thank you. The video on the left shows a man who was in over his head. Over the past several months, Obama has given us glimpses of the kind of president he would be. He, too, would be in over his head — and frozen.

  101. Phoniness, and arrogance.

    I guess some people find that appealing, and they voted for him, but it is very off-putting IMO.

  102. Jules – I agree that Obama could not handle any crisis. Gawd forbid he has to deal with a female leader of any country!

    New post up!

  103. As we saw in the primaries, the more people see of Obama, the less they like.

    He peaked in February and had to be dragged over the finish line by the DNC.

    I’m guessing may people who weren’t paying attention in the primaries are leaning towards Obama because he is the Democrat.

    That will change.

  104. Excellent piece madamab, regardless of one’s position along the political spectrum, where a massive redefining and reshuffling of formerly entrenched beliefs and labels is now occurring on an almost hourly basis. Humbly suggest going to http://savagepolitics.com/ to read/listen to ‘Never, Never, Never Forget,’ which I found to be a very poignant and sobering reminder about what’s at stake in this election. Thanks.

  105. tom,. I don’t care what McCain throws at Obama — how much mud and filth. All I ask is that it be correct, no lies. There is nothing wrong with throwing the truth at someone if it’s damning.

    Guess I’m in moderation for quite some time.

  106. Steve, we have to remember we’re guests in their house. It’s not a free speech forum.

  107. I can imagine Obama facing Angela Merkel of Germany. If they have a disagreement, and he tries flipping her the bird, she’ll smack him right there and then. Total embarassment. Actually, crazy Bush is better than Obama.

  108. madamab-Thank you so much for your post. It’s very thought-provoking and so well written. I enjoyed reading it even though it’s so hard to deal with the ideas presented. I believe in the saying: If you don’t learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it.

  109. Steve is not even a real republican. Obamabot is disguise. You should read some of his other posts in the spam filter.

  110. I think it would be great if we could discuss a post just once without drifting off into other topics. Every thread doesn’t have to be about what Odrama said, what Bill did, polling, etc. I think it’s rude to the poster who has taken the time to write the post. I think it’s great we share info but we never have a substantive discussion about anything at all ever. It’s like fast food all the time and never a home-cooked meal. Just how I feel-not pointing the finger at anyone-I do it, too.

  111. tom, I hope he does. Maybe then everyone will remember W feeling the woman up, and realize that Barky’s just as bad.

  112. Regency,

    About Bush being stupid: He has always reminded me of an exchange I had with my mother years ago.

    “Mom, are horses smart?”
    Pause. “Well, I wouldn’t so much say they were smart as they have a kind of low animal cunning.”

    This distinction has served me well many times over the years.

  113. Joan, the new thread is on topic so far.

  114. Joan, 09/11 is always there as a sad day in my heart. I lost my brother to those terrible attacks. I’m just trying to cover it up by joking bout other things. The pain in my heart lives. Such a gentle man, rudely plucked out of life.

  115. Madamab—IMO it is a London-based international financial oligarchy. Conceptually they would be mostly a step above, but certainly “intersecting” the megacorporations.

  116. Joan – Thank you for your kind thoughts. Personally, it doesn’t offend me. I know people appreciate a place where they can share their thoughts and concerns.

  117. Over the past several months, Obama has given us glimpses of the kind of president he would be. He, too, would be in over his head — and frozen.

    Actually I don’t think Obama would be frozen. I think that once he has the power, he will turn into the jackal that he tries to hide in his hunt for votes. The snarky and dismissive ‘tude witnessed through the primary season and so well described on this blog is just the tip of the iceberg.

    Bush’s own power grab has been ready made for an Obama to seize this country by the balls and squeeze. This is my fear. This is my trembling. I can only wish I were wrong. In this race as it now stands, I can only wish that Obama was the man he announced himself to be, but those of us thoroughly chilled by the prospect of this egotistical madman in the White House, know better and can only find solace by warming ourselves around this blog. Living here in Washington, DC, also known as Chocolate City, I am astounded by the “Barackian true believers” of every persuasion who talk to me of “not pushing and shoving, just shut up and vote for Obama”, from the youth brigades on up.

    May God help us all, if Obama pulls this out.

  118. Pale Lion –

    Bush’s own power grab has been ready made for an Obama to seize this country by the balls and squeeze. This is my fear. This is my trembling.

    Me too. Well said.

  119. If Obama becomes president, God help America. Truly.

  120. Pale Lion: Yes, I agree that Obama is likely to exercise his power in frightening ways. I meant “frozen” in the context of the video of Bush above. If Obama had to deal with a crisis, would he be able to react in a timely and appropriate fashion? I doubt it.

  121. myiq2xu, on September 11th, 2008 at 3:58

    But that is the problem. He dissed Bill and trashed his administration and all that didn’t help him win. He never praised any Democratic presidents. I can understand it being hard for him to praise Bill and his administration since Hillary was a nominee and he was a surrogate to Hillary but the least Obama could have done is praise other Democratic presidents. He was only compared to JFK and not because of policies but because of his age and young family. Hillary talked about HST, FDR and LBJ while Obama praised Reagan.

    Obama had to bully, cheat and steal to “win” with the help of Nancy and Dean. Obama played us like he played Alice Palmer. First 300 signatures were gotten to have a roll call but then in denver the day before the roll call, it is decided that 800 signatures are needed to get a full 50 state roll call. There wasn’t enought time to get 800 signatures. Only 600 were gotten. Isn’t that what happened to Alice Palmer?
    Obama can’t win in a fair election and he has only participated in one his entire life. In that election he lost.

  122. fred, Howard Dean’s chief of staff is a Pentecostal. Why is the left not freaking out over that one? An anti-choice minister gave the prayer at the freaking Dem convention, and nary a peep.

    They are hypocrites, all of them. Evangelicals are only scary insane wild-eyed zealots if they belong to the other side. So long as they are Dems, they are normal reasonable people whom we have a few disagreements with.

    There is ZERO evidence that Palin is a religious zealot. None whatsoever.

  123. Re: Big Dawg’s “he will win handily” statement – listen between the lines to what he said. Bill is not stupid. If he really thought Obama will win, he would have said things like: “Well, elections are always tough, and anything could happen, but I really think he’s going to pull it off and do it. This country i ready for what he has to offer, so it will be a tight race but Obama will win …yada yada yada”

    The fact that Bill said something so preposterous as “Oh, yeah, he’s going to practically walk away with this!” is a SIGNAL that he is toeing the party line, not giving his honest assessment. Bill is smarter than that, and he knows WE know he is smarter than that. This is a chess game, and Bill is a master at it.

    Pay attention to what is NOT being said, as much as what is. Pay attention to how “off kilter” and over-the-top and out-of-character many of Bill’s and Hillary’s words are. They are making how they feel OBVIOUS by overdoing the praise.

  124. jjb, we have all seen the Steinem article. It’s crap. The only thing I have in common with Gloria Steinem is an X chromosome as well.

    I actually have MORE in common with Sarah Palin than I do Gloria. And I am disgusted with Gloria’s refusal to acknowledge this woman’s accomplishments.

  125. wmcb: I agree. After I watched the clilp of Bill and Obama, I remembered Bill’s speech 2 weeks ago that was over-the-top in praise of Obama. My feeling is that Bill is chuckling inwardly at Obama. And when Obama cut off Bill twice, it seemed to me O was trying to create the impression that he is in charge, not Bill. With everyone saying how Obama was meeting with Bill to beg for help, O’s smug demeanor (to me) was just a cover-up. Also, Bill said he’d campaign *after* his own global intitiative. Obama is not his top priority.

  126. Frozen. I don’t know for certain of course, but my own observations lead me to think that once he is instilled with power, all hesitation will leave this man. I simply don’t think he has any good intentions. I think he is here to cause crisis, and inflict damage on America. Hasn’t it done that to the Democratic Party? I too thought his 2004 speech was a magnificent moment in American nostalgia. But we are informed by brutal history as to what beautiful speeches can often bring us…

    I happened to be at a luncheon, invited by an acquaintance of mine who is a self-professed Marxist and Code-Pinker, in addition to being very cozy with Ralph Nader. But I was stunned when I heard this acquaintance of mine say to the table of his friends, all of who are deeply involved in activist politics, that “Of course we have to destroy the Democratic Party first. Then the Republican Party will also collapse.”

    I see this person every now and then, and still haven’t “congratulated” him on his apparent success in destroying the Democratic Party just to study his reaction. He knows I am a lifelong Thomas Paine independent (we’re both in our fifties), and says he wants to get to know me better since all his friends have read all the same books and have all the same ideas, so it interests him to know somebody of a different mind.

    But frankly, we have all but steered clear of politics in our last few conversations over a glass of iced tea.

    This is not my American dream. I can frankly quite disturbed by what is happening in this country, these contemporary trends toward a vocalization of pure and absolute destruction everywhere I turn.

    This blog has grounded me. I can say that I have regained a sense of sanity here, and I thank all of you, particularly the moderators who insist on a civil and rational place to come in from the storm Thanks!

    I won’t call out names. You know who you are. But thanks.

    In fact, let me just add this one additional point, if I may. I have never been much of a Hillary fan, and had my own pedantic reasons for dismissing her candidacy (unfavorable to a dynastic end run around the 22nd Amendment for starters), but the sheer enthusiasm and dedication of the PUMA NATION I have found here and elsewhere these past few weeks when the lunacy of the Obamatron had seriously short-circuited any confidence of voter rationality I had left, is solid testimony in convincing me to reconsider her if ever given the opportunity again.

  127. When I viewed the video, it seemed that Bill was a little cautious, but honest in a bare bones way. Obama seemed uncomfortable in Bill’s presence. He was hesitant also. I don’t think he trusts Bill, but I do think he knows what a powerful person Bill is.

  128. Pale Lion – It is clear that they felt they needed to destroy the Democratic Party in order to “save” it. That’s why I fell no need to “unify” with these people. They have all but destroyed the Party that stood for the people in this country. Now, the merger of corporation and state is almost complete, and we have Obama to thank for that.

    That is why he must never, NEVER become President. He only knows how to destroy, not how to create.

  129. Pale Lion, from reading your post, I can understand why your friend likes to talk with you. You seem very open.

  130. madamab, on September 11th, 2008 at 6:13 pm Said:

    ……….. Now, the merger of corporation and state is almost complete, and we have Obama to thank for that.

    **********

    Obama as the last link? There are a number of other players who are responsible for this shift in power.

  131. Yeah, Obama himself was tiptoeing here and all quimbly having to tap dance to someone he admittedly needs at this time to work miracles he seems to have lost the ability to work, but wait until The One is confirmed. With the office of POTUS at his back, all gloves will be off. I just can’t believe I once thought this fellow was…oh, uh, well, I forget, what was he?

  132. purplefinn – Of course! Pale Lion had already said that Bush’s Reign of Error had paved the way, along with the spineless corporatists in the Democratic Party.

    But I believe Obama is a pawn of the megacorporations, who are all drooling at the thought of him coming into power and deregulating everything under the sun. Wall Street is backing him, and so are Rupert Murdoch and AT&T. He has no intentions of holding the Bush administration accountable for any of their crimes, and of course, is happy to continue all the private contractors and their work in either Iraq or Afghanistan. Either way, it’s more billions to KBR.

    Seriously, this guy is a Bush Republican in fauxgressive clothing.

  133. It makes me infuriated just seeing it again. What I will never understand as long as I live – how could anyone vote for that fool in 2004? How did that occur?

  134. madamab – I don’t doubt your analysis. I just don’t know what course of action I can take to help combat this imbalance of power.

  135. Liz, we voted differently in 2006, and nothing changed. 😦

  136. Lizpolaris – I thought Kerry would have made a good President, but he was not a good campaigner. If he had connected more viscerally with more Americans, I think he would have won in a landslide.

    Also, the Republicans stole Ohio.

  137. Lizpolaris – some people’s excuse was that we were at war and he was a sitting president. When Bush got selected the first time, I could fault the system because 500,000 more Americans voted for Gore than Bush. The second time I began losing faith in the people of this country!

  138. purplefinn – you know, I’ve really struggled to remain open to any and all ideas as they’ve trotted down this eternal highway one at a time or in ruthless clusters, but I feel this “openness” has wiped years off my life expectancy as I have faced attack and ridicule in one way or another every inch of the way it appears when I refuse to strap on the uniform of groupthink which always seems to be lurking around the corner as I try to make sense of so much I viscerally find appalling in terms of fair play and self-reliance.

    Apologies for the long sentence, but I tend to write that way.

    I guess I’m still just a small town boy scout even at this late date, fighting for what’s right, standing up for what’s true and good in every situation, even if I’m not always hitting the mark myself according to critics who may be right or they may be wrong, but it appears that I never “grew up” to fully comprehend, much less became agile enough to play the right games that offer success in so many competitive arenas of the day. And national politics is the roughest game in town. Just makes me respect the founders of this nation even more. As I’ve read here, at the DNC in Denver, it literally became a contact sport that awarded bruises and welts to the foot soldiers of democracy who just wanted to play by the rules. And we had hoped all that nasty stuff had died down with Tammany Hall, old man Daley, et cetera…

    After all, public servants are the good guys, right?

  139. Pale, the only people I’ve ever known who can play that game and take pride in their ability to do so are horrible people. To a person. It’s like a philosophical capitulation to the worst in primate nature.

  140. Pale Lion, “After all, public servants are the good guys, right?”

    ***************

    FDR said something to the effect of make me do the right thing. I think he meant that public pressure helps a politician do the right thing even if that’s what he wanted to do anyway.

    Your long sentences flow so that they’re not hard to read.

    You know, we’re not alone in caring about democracy. Posters here, Mawm and Gary, took their PUMA mobile to Denver. A guy in a camp ground was staring at the art work on the van. He introduced himself as John, a conservative Republican. He handed them $20.00 and said “Neither party is paying attention to the voters.”

  141. I never understood the all I won’t vote for Hillary because I don’t want a dynasty meme. This was no ordinary dynasty if you can even call it that. There has been father-son presidents, brother-brother presidents but there has never been husband-wife presidents. Anyone who voted for Obama because they didn’t want to vote for Hillary due to their fear of a “dynasty” deserve what they are getting. There are so many that never even bothered to give her a chance. Not even read what her policies were about. You wanted Obama and you got him. Voting for a guy because of a speech he gave and refusing to vote for a smart experienced woman because she just happened to be married to a guy who had been a president serves you right.
    I bet the “dynasty” factor couldn’t have mattered much had Hillary been a guy and Bill was her brother or father.

  142. The consenus here seems to be that Bush is stupid, he is not but this Obama clown will make Bush look like a genius and a golden throated orator.

    God bless the people and the families of those who lost their lives on 9/11 and in defense of our country.

  143. George Bush NEVER had my support after 9/11.

    I knew we were fu*ked. I just didn’t know just how badly.

    Worst. President. Ever.

  144. God bless the people and the families of those who lost their lives on 9/11 and in defense of our country.

    My thoughts always go to the families on this day and those in the military who have been killed or wounded needlessly because of the immoral and illegal war waged by the

    Worst. President. Ever.

    But, sweetie, the Iraq War was never about the defense of this country.

    I bet you still think there are monsters under your bed, too.

  145. pie –

    Did I say anything about Iraq? I was refering to my dad in Vietnam.

    Maybe I should clarify my point for the less sophisticated here…… I enjoy coming here because most discussions are done with FACTS, seldom do we stoop to insults or the beligerent behavior that I witness on other sites.

    You may not agree with Bush, you may not like his policies, you may not like him personally but don’t flaunt your ignorance by repeating the mantra of the Kos crowd.

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