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Wednesday: Obama’s loss is a matter of trust

Heidi Li Feldman has an excellent series of articles about progressive populism and the direction of the Democratic party after the election.  But we also need to do a retrospective analysis of what went wrong with the this incarnation of the Democratic party.  In Surely the DNCC Jests, Heidi shows how the roll call vote was subverted to award rather than elect Barack Obama.  Six state were crucial to securing his win: NY, NJ, MI, OH, FL and PA.  The final count can be found at the DNCC page.

If you are a regular Joe Bagodonuts and you are only following the nightly news, you might look at these numbers and think Clinton lost fair and square.  Obama’s delegate count puts him ahead by 3:1.  What the DNCC won’t tell you is that the pledged delegate count prior to the roll call vote put her well within striking distance of winning the election.  So, why didn’t she win it, given that she was the most electable candidate?

The answer lies in the Superdelegates.  It was the superdelegates that decided this election.  The pledged delegate count seems almost engineered to cover up for this fact.  Of course, it took a lot of arm twisting and threats to make sure the pledged delegates caved.  Ricki Lieberman sent another compilation of first hand delegate accounts describing how the delegates were hounded. Here are a couple that give us some insight as to how the process was highjacked:

CONNECTICUT: “For 17-18 months I have been working on and for HRC I could not figure out what was wrong with the politicians in Ct something was wrong I just couldn’t put my finger on it.  Then many months ago I revc’d a call from a women who is very active in the Dem party in Ct.  She had told me at that time that the politicians in Ct were getting threatened by Dodd with their political careers if they did not support/vote for BO.  Of course I tried to verify this info but could not, though people did admit to hearing that.  Then at a fundraiser I held in Ct for HRC I was told this again to my face by an elected Dem town chair person and elected HRC delegate.  Prior to the convention two elected HRC delegates switched and announced their support and vote for BO, one a mayor the other state representative.”

KENTUCKY:A campaign volunteer: “I was there in Denver and witnessed Ky delegates being berated and strong armed.  Lots of people in the Kentucky delegation witnessed an Obama delegate screaming at a Clinton delegate and saying she was a racist because she wouldn’t change her vote. For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of being a Democrat.”

MAINE: “I was approached by a member of the Maine delegates on Tuesday night and was told that if I didn’t vote for BO I would regret it. I then said to
them that I came here representing a lot of Hillary supporters and would vote for her every time I could.  I then said I have nothing else to talk to you about so please leave me alone.”

For the roll call “We where sitting right behind ARKANSAS. When it was their turn for the roll call the women that was talking was the widow of the head of the democratic party talking.  She was reading what was written to be said.  She stopped because she couldn’t believe what the note said. A man stepped in and said the Arkansas votes where all for BO.  Cell phones started to ring in front of me.

There is a cause and effect relationship for what happened during the primary season and the disaster that the Democrats find themselves in now.  We can see how the primary season was corrupted in the Democratic Convention, which in a way is just a giant caucus.  Two forces seem to have been at the heart of what went terribly wrong.  The first is the superdelegate system itself.  I think it is too facile to say that their flipping has everything to do with money.  The total amount of money given to these superdelegates was substantial but on an individual basis, it’s hard to see how Frank Lautenberg benefits from the $10,000 dollars or so that he got from Obama.  It takes millions of dollars to run a senate campaign in NJ and Frank is pretty old.  Who knows if he’ll even run another term?  What is even less plausible is the rational for voting for Obama based on the fact that the DNC was going to withhold funds to downticket Dems in certain states, like NJ, CT and NH.  I’m not denying that they threat wasn’t made.  I am questioning the logic.  How would an Obama presidency get anything done if it had lost Congress due to some pre-election pique?  Or was the Obama campaign saying that it would have let Congressional candidates lose if Clinton had been the nominee?

No, the problem with the superdelegates is that a vast majority are middle aged white guys who have no experience with the rank and file not falling in line.  We all got behind Mondale, Dukakis, Gore and Kerry.  They weren’t particularly exciting candidates but they were ours so we sucked it up and voted for them.  Middle aged white guys don’t have the experience of having women directing things.  Their life experience is one of women in subordinate positions.  Women in power are few and far between.  Mostly, we submit.

Then there are the zealous Obama supporters who were born or raised during the Reagan era.  Their parents were Baby Boomers.  These children are suffering from Affluenza.  They’ve been given everything.  Oh, sure, student loans are expensive but for the most part, boomer parents had the money and means to raise their children without want.  They sacrificed a lot for their kids and so it should come as no surprise that the kids still expect sacrifice.  These golden children think rather highly of themselves.  It never crosses their minds that we will not instantly comply with their demands.  So, they got a little red in the face when they demanded that delegates switched.  So what?

Obama took full advantage of this.  He could have let the roll call proceed and honored both Clinton and her voters.  In fact, given the closeness of the delegate count, his pretension of being the presumptive nominee is one for the history books.  With Florida and Michigan restored to full votes, he was not entitled to call himself presumptive nominee.  But that didn’t stop him and his crew from strong arming and scripting the convention down to the last detail.  It didn’t stop him from engineering a humiliating loss for her on the convention floor as her delegates were flipped and Nancy Pelosi rammed the whole procedure through.

And now, the DNC and the Obama campaign are surprised that women are abandoning them and that Obama can’t raise enough money for the general.  I’m surprised that they are surprised.  What we have witnessed is an abuse of our caucus system, fradulent primaries and superdelegates substituting their will for the will of the voters.  And all of this was done with Obama’s approval because it was more important that he win than whether the party survived his candidacy.  He was even willing to let Congressional candidates lose if he couldn’t be at the top of the ticket.

Those of us who are holding out aren’t doing it because we’re racists.  It’s not because we are wedded to Hillary.  She’s right about never looking back to what might have been.  We have to move forward.  But we will never support a man who has so utterly destroyed our trust in him and the party apparatus that put him in power.  Not only have they failed to exercise leadership and control but they have put victories for downticket Democrats in question as well.  They have subverted the process to the point that we may lose the slim margins we hold in Congress while we end up with a Republican running the White House.

How can we EVER trust Barack Obama for this catastrophe?  There is no way at this point in time for him to earn that trust back.   Nothing but emergency measures with major corrections will fix this election cycle.  And such measures will only underscore the precarious position the Democrats have put themselves into.

When trust is gone, it takes a long time to get it back and it isn’t going to happen before November.

148 Responses

  1. I get “We’re sorry, this video is no longer available” when I click from The Confluence (the host site always knows the referrer site, so maybe The Confluence is blacklisted?) When I copy the URL and go to YouTube directly in my browser, it plays fine:

    If you don’t know already, Google is in the tank big time for Obama, due to Intellectual Property issues….

  2. Great diary!!! Obama’s losing it for the Democrats. And worse yet the DNC screwed one half of the party’s Democrats. Get rid of caucuses, get rid of super delegates, make it mandatory for a roll call vote that represents who the voters voted for. And do it now.

  3. A great essay, Riverdaughter, and I love this line:

    “…These children are suffering from Affluenza…”

  4. There will be no trust. Hand gestures, racism and misogyny were the cards the Obama campaign chose to play. That’s why the 16 second mark in this video makes it plausible that they are continuing on their track. I didn’t see it last night because it was pretty subtle, but it is there.


  5. Well, guys, I tried putting the original video in for this song but apparently that isn’t allowed. We’re stuck with the handheld camera version.

  6. Carol – I don’t know what he is doing with his hand in the video, but touching his face is certainly a “tell” that he is insulting someone… let’s watch for the gesture in the future and see what it says… it appears to be a firmly established habit at the least.

  7. Great piece RD – I’ve continued to let Corzine and other delegates know how angry I am. I sent them there with my vote and they violated it.

  8. Linda Douglas, BO campaign advisor, was on Morning Joe just having a meltdown over the “lipstick on a pig” issue…

    they are panicking.

  9. Hey, this is my comment before work. I watched fox and friends and they were playing up the whole “lipstick” comment and debating if he meant it or didn’t mean it. The irony in all of this is superb. However, Hillary was NEVER given the benefit of the doubt by anyone on whether she meant something or not.

    Awesome post, RD.

  10. Finely,

    The video played just fine for me.

  11. Payback is “someone who where’s lipstick,” Linda!

    I think this controversy is being stirred up for us PUMAs to an extent.

  12. Obama rubbed his head for emphasis. He meant it how it was said. Watching is better than listening.

  13. Here’s a longer version of the “lipstick on a pig” episode.

  14. Just heard MSNBC trying to make excuses for Obama’s lipstick on a pig comment, blaming the media for promoting the story. Well excuse me, but wasn’t it Mr. Obama who made this stupid remark. Who cares what he meant. Mr. Obama you are in a political campaign and you’ve dissed women ever since running for office and now you’re making a ridiculous comment like this that the McCain campaign will use against you. Good luck….cause you’ll need it with moves like that.

  15. The finger goes out at 16 seconds. It is subtle, but it is there.

  16. The McCain Camp needs to make a clip of all sexist insults from Obama himself- the finger, the brush off, the comment of “”periodically”” getting like that, along with the shots of the crowd getting his meanings-ALL of them, to show the PATTERN of demeaning dismissive behavior, and how this latest one is just another one of his vile sexist, demeaning attacks. He has to connect the the fish one following the pig reference- without a doubt that is a derogatory locker room reference to women, Have the voters decide if actions and comments like his are Presidential material

  17. He did raise his middle finger when he was rubbing his forehead. It’s hard to say if that was deliberate. But we do know at this point that Obama is immature enough to do it. As RD said, once trust is gone, it’s hard to assume the positive about a person.

  18. ahh! I see the finger now…. it must be something he does frequently – a habit – because it sure pops up without any effort.

  19. CNN just said Ohio was going to Obama by 2 now, even though their poll was pre Sarah speech. Ohio is +7 post Sarah speech. Tries making the sate closer than it is.

  20. Charles,

    That’s the same one I posted. It’s good. The only problem is having to watch all those Bush administration spokespeople discuss it.

  21. This mornings post by RD, last night’s post by BB, and the suggestion by Republican woman inspired me to write this letter:

    “Dear Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin,

    I am a former 30+ year registered Democrat. I have re-registered an Independent. You have my vote because you hold out a sliver of a ray of hope, where I see none on the Democratic (sic) top of the ticket. Please do something in office that will make all Americans proud, restore democracy and bolster the common good. Our country’s decline has been greatly accelerated by George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney. Please point our country in the direction of good will at home and abroad. I will be forever grateful.

    Independent Voter”

  22. I just read about the lipstick on a pig comment.
    So let me sum up, so far I have read that Obama has said the following about Sarah Palin:

    “I assume she wants to be treated the same ways that guys want to be treated”
    “a mother, a governor, a moose hunter”
    “You can put lipstick on a pig” (pause for applause) “but it’s still a pig”

    The jerk is escalating his verbal abuse.
    (Oh, and “wrap an old fish” is a sneaky ageist attack on McCain.)

  23. “Middle aged white guys don’t have the experience of having women directing things. Their life experience is one of women in subordinate positions. Women in power are few and far between.”

    I am reposting this from another commenter in the previous thread. It is worth listening to this “Middle aged white guy” defending Palin’s choice from the GOP point of view. My favorite part is when he attacks the Ds for enabling war to happen. Pacifica indeed.

    myshiba, on September 10th, 2008 at 7:07 am Said:
    Check out this audio where Mike Gravel gives Pacifica and the Democrats ‘what for’ on Palin:

    it’s well worth the 9 minutes to listen to it all!

  24. I think this is a case of fauxrage if you ask me. I wonder how it will play in the GE.

    And, please can someone rescue my previous post (unformatted url)?

  25. I learned alot from this very smart post. But I still don’t understand why Hillary acquieced to all of it. She could have fought back. She could have gone public with what was happening. If she had, it would have been a huge press sensation. I hope that someday, her side of the story will come out but somehow I doubt it ever will.

  26. votermom,

    It was “mother, governor, moose shooter,” which to me sounds worse than if he had said hunter.

  27. I think the fish comment was directed at Palin too

  28. WigWag – I think Hillary has to walk the toughest tightrope ever… I trust that she is the master of her game…

  29. moose shooter? if so that is bad.

  30. People weren’t tuned in before so many voters didn’t witness his actions. Either McCain Camp or 527’s need to compile a short clip of these undignified, unpresidential mannerisms and actions to show voters who he really is. The brush off, the finger, “periodically” comment, now the pig and fish comments. They need to show the pattern to make others aware of his street like undignified actions. It will work

  31. Thanks forces that be.

  32. Hillary could not fight back. Every time she or anyone else tried to expose it, they were beat bloody.

    Here is what I said last night. I still think it is true, but the body language of the finger still plays out. He is juvenile.

    Carol, on September 9th, 2008 at 11:30 pm Said:

    He was on one of his “rambling to no where” speeches (which could be anyone of them), paused and then could only come up with something he had just heard or joked about.

    The lipstick on a pig – I’m sure that was their hateful remark in-house.

    The fish was for McCain being old.

    He’s just not that bright.

    Now, Matthews is on Joe declaring he was falsely accused of sexism. He said it just made it worse when he tried to defend himself. I guess video is hard trump.


  33. UpstateNY,

    He said “moose shooter.” I saw it on TV. See quotes here:


    Obama told the crowd that McCain and Palin spent most of the convention talking about their biographies.

    Palin’s bio is “compelling,” Obama said.

    The crowd booed. “No, it’s an interesting story.” More boos. “No, no, it is. I mean that sincerely. Mother, governor, moose shooter.”

    The crowd broke out in laughter. “That’s cool. That’s cool. That’s cool stuff,” Obama said.

  34. Here’s a little more from Jake Tapper:


  35. On Fox, Huckabee gave Obama a pass on it saying he could not be that stupid (he did not use the word stupid but that was the message). Sean Hannity was just in a major twist over it—insisting it was what it is. I thought one of the major insights for the day was the series Greta Von S. is doing on Fox from Alaska. She interviewed the pastors from the churches Palin has attended. Apparently Palin began as a Catholic (which is probably the roots of her pro-life stance) then migrated with her parents to the Assembly of God in Wasilla. She left that church in 2002 apparently mostly because the non-denominational church had a much stronger program for children and a better fit for the family’s schedule. The non-denominational church that she attends seems to be very moderate in its views. Apparently the whole story about anti-gay is based on a note in the church bulletin announcing the event sponsored by Focus on the Family at a venue in Anchorage. The pastor of the non-denominational church seemed to be a really nice, low key guy and no radical about anything. The contrast with Mr. Wright was striking. The tape with her husband was amazing; he is a real 21st century man in his views about his role as a man in the family. It is all so totally different than what the msm and the bloggers are putting out there.

  36. It was “mother, governor, moose shooter,” which to me sounds worse than if he had said hunter.

    Oops, my bad! Yeah, that’s even worse.

    Oh, and he also said before that that about Palin’s having “zero experience”:
    “There’s no way you can dress up that record, even with a lot of lipstick.”
    (I just have to laugh at Obama accusing anyone of having zero experience. Oh my, he’s such a funny guy. Har, har)

  37. Charles,


  38. The tape with her husband was amazing; he is a real 21st century man in his views about his role as a man in the family.
    Yeah. If Sarah becomes VP, aside from it being a great thing for girls everywhere just for the image of it (regardless of her politics), it will also be great for boys everywhere to see Mr. Palin as an example of really secure, supporting guy. Definitely a big step towards normalizing gender equality.

  39. In case anybody missed it, here is Michelle Obama on Ellen. How classy of her to do the “brush off the shoulder” move while she’s dancing. Then she has the nerve to make up some story about her daughter saying that on the night that he clinched the nomination and Obama gave a speech in minnesota (which btw was on 6/4 BEFORE the primaries were over) she told her daughters that it was a historic moment and that they should remember it. She said her daughter turned to her and said, “you know if it had been Hillary it would have been just as historic” YEAH RIGHT!!!!

    She also couldn’t bring herself to congratulate Ellen on her marriage, calling it her “move” instead.

  40. Dallas Morning News says O is pulling campaign workers out of Texas. He promised to help down ticket dems ( such as minority candidates) and is now abandoning them. He took all of the cash too. All of the resources of the party are being funneled to O so he can loose. He is the queen bee candidate and all must serve him. We will probably loose seats. The Republicans locally have lots of cash because McCain does not suck it all up.

  41. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I just don’t think it’s very presidential to use expressions like “That’s cool. That’s cool stuff.” Never mind the other kinds of things he has said like that Hillary stuck a knife in him and twisted it. I might say things like that, but I want my president to be more dignified. I wouldn’t say something like that when speaking in public.

  42. Just looked at the new McCain ad. WOW! The McCain campaign is on it.

  43. I’m enjoying the “shoe, meet foot” routine. Tremendously. Obama is in the same boat re: sexism with the Repubs that Hill was in re: racism with Obama.

    At this point, the he will have to almost go out of his way to praise her, and will have to watch his EVERY word for anything even slightly dismissive. He will have to, as Hill did, fight with one hand tied behind his back.

    Hilary handled that completely unfair pressure well. Obama is crumpling under it, even though in his case it is justified given his campaign history of misogyny.

  44. I think that maybe Obama has lipstick envy. How about a campaign to send used tubes of lipstick to the DNC and any Democrats (sic) who had a hand in this corruption of democracy?

  45. Obama’s snark is getting tiresome.

  46. Michelle told Ellen that Barack says the children of candidates should be off limits, and “what’s good for my kids” should the same for other candidates’ kids.

    Right. Like when Obama complained to MSNBC about David Shuster likening Hillary and Bill to pimps and their daughter Chelsea to a prostitute.

    Oh wait….

  47. RD, you are correct, and this is an excellent synopsis. This is not just about Hillary, it is about the way that the DNC leadership has completely broken faith with the voters, inserting themselves into the democratic process in an attempt to bend and strong-arm the voters to their will.

  48. BB

    Exactly. His constant use of hip hop slang and gestures are not Presidential. When I hear a presidential candidate say “it’s cool, that’s cool” and use fingers and vulgar gestures to diminish a competent capable candidate and is allowed to get away with it, I am Stupefied

  49. Open mouth insert foot Biden calls it a ….”lack of EASE with Obama…….”

    a woman interviewed in Ohio yesterday called it awakening a sleeping giant the desire of women to have someone who represents their issues their gender in the executive office that’s from a Republican stay at home mom…..and that’s what will IMHO do Obama in and should.

    McCain is running Obama’s own campaign against him just like Hillary could not strike back against the scarlet R without inflaming now Obama can’t fight the scarlet M without inflaming. And Biden may be perceived by Obama and the DNC as a good ole boy but they are mistaken to believe he is perceived as a good ole girl and he should stuff it on issues of gender he looks and sounds foolish salt is a gapping wound……….and Obama calling Palin a Pig and McCain and old stinking fish made him looked childish and peevish and it was unbecoming to say the least

    Bottom line McCain is using identity politics and grievance to move voters to he and Palin, think SC, and against the grievance of less qualified men getting the job over the women adding Biden who didn’t even register on votes while Hillary had 18M put the period on their arrogance.

  50. Reading Lady Boomer’s synop from last night on the convention really tore me up again. RF – your posts are always right on.

    I did not think I could sustain such rage for as long as I have at my own party. Watching/listening to BZero makes me ill – it is so sad that he is such an unaccomplished, immature, egotisical cipher that most of us identified from the very beginning. IT is scary that the “leaders” of my life long party thought we would just go along with his “selection”. It is scary that he has thongs of thugs threatening people overtly – not subtley not quietly – but in your face.

    He will lose and lose big – but, gee how historical????? America is the biggest loser. And this was all a plan by the DNC/dem party? I don’t see how they can spin this ugly candidate – how they will ever live this down. I do not care to even vote down ticket D’s that supported this mess – it’s funny, that stupid meme they used for supporting him -“his judgement” – sets my teeth on edge. Has there ever been a poorer example of Good judgement? BZero and Michelle were telling us from the very beginning how they feel, about their sense of entitlement, about their lack of respect for real records of accomplishment. As the snake pit of hate kos went – so are the Obama’s, Pelosi, Dean, Kennedy, Kerry, Daschle, Durkin, etc. What an insult to the American public and to those true legislaturers working for us.

    BZero and crew must be the dumbest political group ever uncovered. He just keeps up with his stupid comments and his immaturity is rank. Is this another example of when people think they will not be held accountable they lose all control? I think so.

  51. The good news it this thing is viral. Fox News is reporting it is all over the radio, internet and that is all the media is talking about.

    It is payback whether justified, faux or fantasy on the part of the McCain campaign.

    Most independents and the working class that hear about this are not going to “research” to see if it meets the smell test. They are “convinced” the same way the AA community was that something was a slight that needs to be met with disdain.

    Obama meet your future bosses: President McCain and Vice President Palin.


  52. I knew something was very wrong in CT. We could not get a Hillary sign at any Democratic Party storefront. It was all Obama. When I tried getting in touch with the Democratic Party about Hillary I got snubbed. Last time Dodd gets my vote. His office did do me a good deed once, a very big one, and I was going to overlook his support for Obama, but not now. Green Party all the way for me, except for my local state rep, who is wonderful.

  53. Hey Obama, how do you like it when the OTHER side “rubs raw the sores of discontent”?

  54. Oh, yeah, and I love the lipstick idea. I have a bunch. I think I will send it right to Obama headquarters, priority mail!

  55. Just showed my significant other person the McCain ad. He said he just lost the election with that $*#%. Then he said he is some kind of freak to say that about a woman. This is a very strong reaction from someone who is laid back, non political and worried about Ike.

  56. WMCB – I don’t think they are “man” enough to take it.

    What city are you in? Is the hurricane coming your way?

  57. It’s ironic. The lipstick comment isn’t even close to the worst thing Obama has done. It’s not even the worst thing he has done lately.

    But it might just be his “Macaca Moment”

  58. Chimera,

    I think I’ll add an old lipstick to next prepaid fundraising envelope I send back to Obama–in addition to defacing the literature by writing PUMA all over it. I’ve send back quite a few already, but they keep coming.

  59. Given people have been talking about Palin’s lipstick comment since she made it, Obama either meant what he said as an insult or he’s just plain stupid.

    Mountain Sage

  60. Another TRUST issue……PELOSI!!!
    Another Reason to be a “Disaffected Democrat”: Pelosi Letting KARL ROVE off the Hook as Time Runs Out on This Congressional Session (Add This to “Impeachment off the Table”)


    Obama, Biden and the crew certainly aren’t inspiring…and Pelosi takes the cake!!! It looks like Karl Rove is going to get “pass from Pelosi.” Read what frmr. gov. Don Siegelman has to say about the Democratic leadership…as they throw HIM and democracy under the bus!!!

  61. I said this last night, but Hillary being out of the race means we can relax and be spectators for a while.

    And Obama pissing off the wingers is like watching the drunk who was annoying you take a swing at the bouncers. You get to watch him get his ass kicked for free.

  62. Just a quick interruption:
    I don’t know if I am in the right place here. this was the first election in a long time where my cynicism gave way to some hope that in the Dem. there would be a viable candidate, who brought new ideas, exuded experience and class. Incredulity is the word to describe how much I feel let down. I now have to choose based on character when it was the issues which is of so much import. however, how can one believe anything said about the issues if the candidate proposing them is a liar?

    Anyway, thanks for the posts. Reading the comments and articles here keeps one sane, and hopeful.

  63. Obama is on shaky ground. There are lots of places in this country where insulting a woman will inspire some cowboy to adjust your sinuses with his knuckles.

    I don’t mean someone will attack him, but that stuff doesn’t go well in red states or with “bitter” blue staters.

    Not to mention how the real rac*st types will react.

  64. jvsp, stay for a while and decide.

    Myiq: macaca moment. Perhaps.

    Must go. Take care. Those in Texas, take extra care.

  65. When BZero did this type of thing the first time he got away with it. When he did it a second time, he got away with it. Now we are up to about 42 times and he’s finally being called. If we give him the benefit of the doubt and say he didn’t mean it this time, what about the first 41 times.

    At some point, with all the smoke eventually there’s going to be fire somewhere. This is a pattern of behavior and either he’s a sexist, misogynist or he’s just plain stupid.

    If we give him the benefit of a doubt and say, “Okay, he’s just stupid,” well, you can’t fix stupid.

  66. myiq-

    I think the media may jump on this for cover to turn on Obama. I agree that this isn’t even the nastiest thing he’s done lately, but it is something that EVERYBODY will immediately be able to look at and think “yeah, he’s a dick”. If the media is pushing it hard (and it looks like they are) I’d say the honeymoon is over and its alldownhill for Oman from here.

  67. myiq2xu, you are correct. In many areas that kind of insult is very unacceptable. It is petty, rude and desperate. Why does O have such a fixation on Palin? It is starting to look pathological. Did the McCain campaign suspect he would react this way from some kind of personality analysis or something?

  68. UpstateNY:

  69. I watched Morning Joe for a few minutes this morning.

    Joe kept hammering in that Obama shouldn’t be talking about Palin (a VP candidate) and Iraq (one of Obama’s weaknesses being the war on terror). O is on the defensive. He also said O looked small during the convention speech and after.

    Pat Buchanon said the lipstick comment was significant, but he was looking at it through the prism of class, saying that Obama was implying Palin was white trash.

    Schmucker Carlson actually said something remarkably insightful, though off-handed: “maybe [Obama] is rattled by women politicians.” How true! I would add that Obama is easily rattled, in general.

    Andrea Mitchell, of course, totally denied there was anything improper about Obama’s comment and said something preposterously ironic: “Facts matter.” That, from such a truth-twisting, innuendo-dropping slanderer, made me turn off the TV.

  70. Obama is scared of vajayjays

  71. Biden gaffe

    When introducing Sen Chuck Graham, he went over to him because he didn’t stand up, looked right at him and said “Chuck, Chuck stand up let people see you. They can’t see you.”

    Sen. Graham is in a wheelchair.

  72. Regency

    Biden will be “great” for foreign relations. *choke*

  73. JVSP: Doesn’t he just give you the fuzzy warmikins inside?

  74. Isolde, They simply watched him in the primary. Everyone on this blog knows that Obama has a problem with women. If the Dem party had called him on his sexism and race-baiting in the primary, he would have stopped. The problem was he got away with it every time. I’m sure the McCain camp noticed this. People have a hard time making a 90° turn, if they don’t perceive an obstacle in front of them. They tend to continue doing something until it doesn’t work. I think the McCain camp knew he would try his sexism at some point, and they were just waiting for him to do it.
    Obama does not have the judgment to see what is coming down the road. He is all about having a script. Off script he can’t function.

  75. Fox News.

    BO going to address “lipstick”.

  76. Regency,

    “Doesn’t he just give you the fuzzy warmikins inside?”

    LOL! Oh yes, and quite secure with him as VP. Why he would have Putin chuckling tooo! Is he really inebriated…

  77. Carol: Took him way too long. Damage done.

  78. (snort) He “announces” that he’s “going to address” it? How about a shocked (and simple) “I’m sorry”

    But, he won’t do that. It’ll be all, nuanced, “I’m sorry IF anyone took offence” or something that when you listen puts the blame on us for not “listening to what Obama actually said”


  79. Great links, all.

    Obama is just an ass. Sad to see Pacifica suffering from kool-aid poisoning.

    So far, so good on the public’s response to the Palin persecution. I hope John Q. doesn’t get to the point where he figures “Where there’s smoke there must be fire.”

    Because what Democrats are coming up with here IS smoke. It goes along with the mirrors.

  80. Check out this CNN video clip…around 39 sec:

  81. It will be another WORM moment and I for one am sick of having to decipher what he meant and what he didn’t mean.

    I just peaked into HuffPost to see what was going on over there and the politicial page is covered with Sarah Palin. She has them terrified.

  82. RDs post is fabulously informative and should be mainstream.

  83. If we have a Republican President AND a Republican Congress which a complete disaster, then, there’s is one person to blame:

    Barack Obama

    Ego First, Country Second.

  84. OMG – He is at a Library with all women in the background. He is a complete imbecile!

  85. Mawm, on September 10th, 2008 at 9:51 am Said:

    Isolde, They simply watched him in the primary. Everyone on this blog knows that Obama has a problem with women. If the Dem party had called him on his sexism and race-baiting in the primary, he would have stopped.

    Exactly. He got rewarded for his behavior by the DNC, and that’s why he is the Frankenstein he is now.

  86. All of the pundents are now stating it is a “really, old well known phrase”.

    Yeah, well so its “FUCK YOU!”

  87. Carol, lmao

  88. Yeah, well so is “FUCK YOU!”

  89. Has anything developed regarding his proxy Gov. Paterson dealing the race card? ..wonder how the McCain campaign will deal with that sort of smear

  90. Carol, is he making an apology? Really?

  91. Make your donation to the Obama campaign at
    Obama for America
    P.O. Box 802798
    Chicago, IL 60680

    I made mine in beautiful shades of orange and black (left over from a Halloween).

    Lipstick Pig and Proud of It

  92. I heard about the lipstick/pig remark on NPR this morning, and it seems to me that he was NOT talking about Sarah Palin. I went looking for video on the internets that would show the context of his remark, but everything I found only shows the comment, not what came immediately before.

    I am no fan of Sen. Obama, and will not be voting for him. However, I see McCain/Palin being built up, and I think their response to this comment is BS. Yes, on the one hand it is satisfying to see Obama hoist on his own petard, but having been driven away during this past year from all of the sites I used to call home, due to their serious disconnection from reality, I am scared of being driven away from my new haunts by the same kind of blind silliness.

    Can anyone provide a link that will show what Obama was saying for the 2 – 3 minutes prior to the lipstick/pig remark?
    Thank you.

  93. well, according to BO, if running a Presidential campaign is the measure of being President, then McCain is winning.

  94. I am really mad at Obama right now, because I wanted to use an image of a pig with lipstick on my new web-site.

    Now, it won’t be taken the way I wanted it too.

    Thanks Obama, for taking something else away from me.

  95. tle – Carol at 8:10

  96. Mawm – use a bulldog.

  97. Mawm I was wondering if he got it from you.

  98. “lipstick on a pig”=well known old phrase
    middle finger in the air=well known old gesture

  99. And Obama said this in the same lipstick-pig speech?
    “”Look, she’s new, she hasn’t been on the scene, she’s got five kids. And my hat goes off to anybody whose looking after five. I’ve got two and they tire Michelle and me out,” he said.”

    In other words, newbie get back to raising your kids like a good mother should.


  100. tle, check out the people in the audience. They knew perfectly well he was talking about Palin and her lipstick comment.

    The context of the comment was he was talking about the McCain camp taking over the “change” theme.

    Don’t you remember when he gave Hillary the finger? Everyone in the room knew what he was doing, but the media let him deny it. This is the same thing. He does things in a way that he can deny them in the strictest sense, but anyone with common sense who can read between the lines, knows what he is saying.

    The problem for him, however, is that everyone is on to his patterns.

  101. not to mention that these same people who want to blow this off were accusing Hillary Clinton of wanting to assassinate Obama for merely mentioning RFK. I second Carol’s sentiment

  102. mawm – pitbull

  103. Hopefully not off topic, but what do we do with the superdelegates?

    I mean look, the gods know that I dread another Republican President and Congress, but the superdelegates were willfully negligent in performing their duty by ignoring the will of their voters and selecting Obama. Taking down Obama (PUMA!!!!) is fine, but isn’t giving them a pass like “getting over it” for the sake of the party?

  104. The apology I’d like to hear from Obama:

    “To all the voters and the American public, I am truly and deeply sorry that I stole the nomination. I realize now that I am not ready to win this election, nor am I ready to be President. I am hereby withdrawing from the race. On behalf of my country, I implore Hillary Clinton to accept the Democratic nomination for President. I promise to support her from an undisclosed location in the Carribean.”

  105. Obama keeps saying these horrible things because he’s a horrible person. Period. I don’t think it’s something he can help. Sexism and even misogyny just runs through to the core. I hate to be that harsh, but that’s what it looks like to me.

    And what’s the deal with the Obama campaign, are they really that stupid. The seem to want to make this election first about experience, then about pastors, and now about personalties and his sexism. Interesting approach.

    The Obama campaign and the DNC deserve to lose in the worst way. Sad when us democrats feel that way.

  106. RD, this is an excellent post and horribly maddening synopsis of much of what has transpired, but there has to be more to it than stupid white men and spoiled children, don’t you think? I sure haven’t received any pressure to vote for blabla from my son, although he’s one of the smarter ones, I guess. There must be something more diabolical, or is that just presumed? Why aren’t more delegates speaking up now? I’m not being accusatory, just curious.

  107. TorchWood: good question. I’m mostly voting dems on the downticket (and McCain/Pailn on top), but I do want to look through that dem list to see if there are any SD’s that supported Obama early. And if so, I may not vote for them. After all, those SD’s put us in this position, and that effort should not go unrewarded. We need to have a list of those SD’s. Let’s call it the lipstick list. 🙂

  108. tie he was recanting the list of what Bush has been for and what McCain is seemingly for – that they are the same and so the pig comment actually does resonate – I’m afraid if the Repugs are going to jump on everything the way the obamabots have they will suffer the same consequence where folks will rush to support BO.
    In marketing we know that there is a very fine balance – the old adage of “sell the sizzle not the steak” still is valid – perception is 90% of the game.
    Certainly all those who clung to Obama were sold the sizzle – ‘cuz honey, I’m still asking “where’s the beef?”

  109. TorchWood, I hear you. If you haven’t already, let the DNC and the Super-Ds (for superdummies) know you are raging mad by unregistering as a Democrat and sending a copy of your new Independent status to the DNC.

    We have been debating how to best be “heard” at the polls. I was for sitting out, but I am too afraid someone might check a box for me, so I am voting for Cynthia McKinney–and happily b/c she is really liberal. I think if a 3rd party gets a lot of votes or if downticket dems get more votes than POTUS, it will send a message.

    And to whether Obama was talking about Palin or not–who wears lipstick besides women and maybe transgendered people? It’s a way of calling women pigs whether he meant Palin or not. And he had to know people would read it that way.

  110. I believe this Democratic primary was very much about trying to purge the party – or at least diminish the influence – of the Clintons and their allies.

    Maybe it’s because the Clintons are too public-service oriented and won’t play along easily with the most undemocratic agenda that guides the leaders of both parties. (As for the once admirable Ted Kennedy, BO went to him and Ted Sorensen before he officially declared with flattery and promises to revive JFK’s name and legacy. Of course, all BO is capable of doing is trying to co-opt JFK’s style not substance).

    The choice of Biden, Mr. Washington Insider and only 1 of 3 Democrats to vote for GWB’s bankruptcy bill, confirms this for me. This was a grand power play on the part of the Democratic leadership vs. the Clintons. Misogyny, caucus and RBC and roll call rigging all part of the means to their disgusting ends.

    BO is a neophyte when it comes to Washington. He will need to rely on Biden, Pelosi, et.al., and they’ll be more than happy to lead him by the nose. Of course, they’ll pretend to defer to him just like Cheney, etc., pretended to defer to GWB. But it’s they who’ll be running the show, not BO. This would not be possible with the Clintons in power.

  111. OT- Did you see how hot under the color oblabla got on a portion of the O’Reilly interview? Who recently said how cool and collected he is under pressure?

  112. This candidate and the whole apparatus behind him scares me. We’ve being told to “get over it” but this is bigger than Hillary not getting the nomination it’s about the take over of the DNC by a band of thugs.
    Does anyone remember the video of Obama taking Joe Lieberman’s hand and leading him off the Senate floor that was posted on YouTube ?
    It’s been removed from YouTube, but you can view the thug in action here.


  113. I would love to see Hillary this morning as I think she is finally getting some vindication for all the mean and nasty things he did to her during the primary….Go Hillary ’12!!!….

  114. This morning AP reports the following:

    “ALBANY, N.Y. — New York Gov. David Paterson said Tuesday that there were racial overtones in the Republican presidential ticket’s criticism of Democrat Barack Obama’s work as a community organizer.

    “There are overtones of potential racial coding in the campaign,” Paterson said at an event in New York City.”

    Someone please explain to me why bringing up that Obama was a community organizer is r@ cist. Obama has belittled Palin’s experience as a mayor and gov, and she has belittled his experience as a community organizer. At the GOP convention (given the GOP’s members, base and policies) I did not find it surprising that Republicans did not know what a community organizer did. So their belittling of a community organizer fits in with their beliefs therefor, I did not see it as a r@ cist attack. Just one in keeping with the Republican ideology. Is every comment or attack on Obama a r@ cist attack now?

    If someone has another take on this please advise.

  115. At No Quarter on different comments these two things were posted.

    if the last one does not come up it was posted by tminu@03:19

    these two things are all you need to know not to vote for backtrack.



  116. VA Cardinal and Chimera,

    Thanks for seeing my P.O.V.

  117. Hillary – september 9 on Georgia-Russia conflict

    US Senator Hillary Clinton questioned Tuesday Washington’s decision to freeze a much vaunted US-Russian civilian nuclear pact, saying the move might not be in Washington’s interest.

    US President George W. Bush decided on Monday to pull from congressional consideration the agreement in the latest effort by the administration to convey its displeasure with Russia over its military actions in Georgia.

    But Clinton, speaking at a congressional hearing on the Georgian conflict, emphasized that it was critical for Washington to maintain a dialogue and not isolate the former Cold War rival.

    “I think we ought to be able to hold competing thoughts in our mind at the same time — Is Russia more aggressive, are they more intent upon pursuing their own interests as they define them territorially, economically politically?

    “Of course they are. I don’t know why anybody is surprised by that,” she said, replying to her own question.

    Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2N_Ji4k-R4

  118. RD: And now, the DNC and the Obama campaign are surprised that women are abandoning them and that Obama can’t raise enough money for the general.

    I’m surprised that they are surprised.

    What a bunch of idiots. I was looking to say more about the major Dem politico’s but I think my first line pretty much sums up what I think of those Yahoos.

  119. Senator Clinton Urges Support for Mass Transit

  120. He knew exactly what he was saying when he said “You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.” It’s true that he was running down the list of “policies” the McCain/Palin ticket represent, but he also knows she just made the lipstick joke last week at the convention. He knew his little double entendre could be twisted by HIS campaign to make it seem it was nothing more than an innocent phrase aimed at McCain’s “change” campaign…..BUT he also knew his audience would know EXACTLY what he was saying and they DID! They all laughed. They all knew he was referring to Sarah and thought it was hilarious.

    His chickens are coming home to roost. His free ride is OVER. He’s no longer the favored candidate. He’s acting like a spoiled 2 year old who isn’t getting the attention he’s use to, so has resorted to word tantrums.

    I cannot wait to watch him lose in November. He’s such a pathetic candidate.

  121. myiq2xu,
    think your right about that shorthand for his obvious distaste for women …..AGAIN

  122. FLVoter,

    but of course it is not, it’s their only stick dueling grievance to inflame their troops by claiming racism again, got news for that crowd Herbert’s has dashed all hope of that ever being effective in this contest

  123. votermom, some things are so intentionally loathsome and mean that they cannot be forgiven, but if Barama gave the full apology that you suggested at 10:20AM, and then disappeared — I would be willing to stop mentally creating that special place in Hell for him.

  124. RD, havent finished reading this amazing post, but I gotta tell you — YOU ARE A GENIUS.


    That is so perfect. so wonderfully, beautifully PERFECT>

    thank you — now going to finish reading.

  125. Downticket—again you bring to our attention what a brilliant international leader and diplomat was pulled from our Presidency.

  126. Downticket, on September 10th, 2008 at 11:15 am Said:
    Hillary – september 9 on Georgia-Russia conflict

    The fact that Bush wants to close communications with Russia, shows again that the fascist agents trying to take over here (in both parties) want to create WWlll ASAP, possibly before the election.

    Imagine what would happen then—the emergency government in the time of national war crisis could mean, well, MANY more years of Bush-Cheney!

  127. We need to give Obama a hand with his Lipstick:


  128. Whatever happened to all those Red States Obama was supposed to turn Blue?

    Obama Campaign Sets Sights On Familiar Territory

    A few months ago, the rhetoric coming out of the Obama camp was that the Democratic presidential nominee’s victory could be sweeping, coming from flipping deep Republican states in the West or the South. But after the Democratic convention, Sen. Obama made a beeline for the traditional swing state he may need most, Pennsylvania, before quickly moving on to Ohio and Michigan.

    Winning two of these three states isn’t only key to Sen. Obama’s strategy, but also critical for his Republican rival, Sen. John McCain. “I think that what you’re going to see settling in is that the race is going to be very close in most of the battleground states, which is really what matters,” Sen. Obama told reporters Tuesday.

    Tightening voter polls, a more competitive money race than originally envisioned and a McCain campaign invigorated by his unconventional vice-presidential pick are prompting a return to the old political map — and a grudging concession by some Obama campaign operatives that certain states once deemed winnable may be more of a long shot than once thought.

    For Sen. Obama, this has prompted a change in focus: A campaign that visited nine states in mid-August has focused almost exclusively on three this month. Since closing out the convention, Sen. Obama will have held 21 campaign events through Tuesday, 18 of them in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan. All three states went to either George W. Bush or John Kerry in 2004 by a margin of less than 4% — and were won in relative squeakers in 2000

    Wasn’t Obama’s ability to turn MS and GA Blue the reason the DNC and the SuperD chose him?

    PS: Where are all those Rep grandmas who for the 1st will be voting Dem because of Obama?

  129. The state party leaders that were pressuring the delegates also received money from Obama. Over 2 million dollars total.

    from http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/efile_search.shtml

    (from Aug 20 Monthly filing)
    Obama for America is Obama’s main fundraising committee

    OBAMA FOR AMERICA disbursements on 7/17/2008
    Florida Democratic Party $244,709
    Ohio Democratic Party $208,545
    Michigan Democratic Party $134,062
    Pennsylvania Democratic Party $174,059
    Democratic Party of Virginia $118,907
    Missouri Democratic Party $110,813
    Colorado Democratic Party $108,098
    Democratic Party of Wisconsin $89,942
    Iowa Democratic Party $88,223
    Indiana State Democratic Party $83,341
    Democratic party of New Mexico $57,294
    New Hampshire Democratic Party $52,584
    Minnesota Democratic Party $49,405
    Alaska Democratic Party $46,126
    Washington Democratic Party $42,000
    North Dakota Democratic Party $37,207
    Montana Democratic Party $33,939
    Oregon Democratic Party $30,694
    Maine Democratic Party $22,350

    OBAMA FOR AMERICA disbursements on July 28
    Ohio Democratic Party $34,116
    Colorado Democratic Party $19,203
    Democratic Party of Wisconsin $16,942
    Democratic Party of Virginia $12,199
    Pennsylvania Democratic Party $11,760
    Florida Democratic Party $11,268
    Georgia Democratic Party $11,243
    Iowa Democratic Party $11,165
    Michigan Democratic Party $10,877
    Indiana State Democratic Party $8,192
    North Carolina Democratic Pty $8,968
    Oregon Democratic Party $4,290

  130. Insightful post! I especially liked this paragraph:

    “Then there are the zealous Obama supporters who were born or raised during the Reagan era. Their parents were Baby Boomers. These children are suffering from Affluenza. They’ve been given everything. Oh, sure, student loans are expensive but for the most part, boomer parents had the money and means to raise their children without want. They sacrificed a lot for their kids and so it should come as no surprise that the kids still expect sacrifice. These golden children think rather highly of themselves. It never crosses their minds that we will not instantly comply with their demands. So, they got a little red in the face when they demanded that delegates switched. So what?

    I hope you are saving everything for the book you must write about this election.

  131. edgeofforever, I grabbed a quote from that link you put up:

    Indeed earlier in the day, Missouri Rep. Russ Carnahan, appearing at
    a speech by Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden, said
    that Palin is “someone with zero experience in national government,
    zero experience in foreign affairs. There’s no way you can dress up
    that record, even with a lot of lipstick.”

    Hairplugs though … they’ll do a dandy job.

    Cheap shot, but I’ll take it …

  132. One question: Do we have a plan to eliminate the Obamatrons in the party once Obama loses? Is there some organization to do this, or is it possible Obama will keep this death grip on the party until it suffocates? For me, the only productive thing I can do is wait until he loses, but then I don’t know where to put my energies. Any ideas?

  133. Great post. Affluenza is a really good book, too. Great reference.

  134. Regency, on September 10th, 2008 at 9:46 am Said:
    “When introducing Sen Chuck Graham, he went over to him because he didn’t stand up, looked right at him and said “Chuck, Chuck stand up let people see you. They can’t see you.”

    Sen. Graham is in a wheelchair.”

    As if that weren’t bad enough, Biden then repeatedly refers to him as “Buddy” and “Pal”. My God. What a douche Biden is.

  135. Regarding punishing Superdelegates: I think this is a great question TorchWood.

    Here’s what I’m going to do. In Washington State both our Senators are women, Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell. Both supported HRC. I don’t know if they switched anytime before the convention “roll call.” Neither is up for re-election this year. However…. our Governor, Chris Gregiore, IS up for re-election. She was front and center at Obama’s first rally here. There was lots of coverage including pictures of her support for O.

    Gregoire BARELY won her election last time. There were several recounts. It took almost 6 weeks before Washington even knew who the governor would be last election. In the end she got the governorship by just 114 votes.

    Chris Gregiore is running against the same opponent this time. I like Chris Gregiore. I really do. BUT….I just cannot get past her very early and very public support of O. I will not vote for her this time. I will not vote for her opponent either. I will vote either a write in candidate or just not vote at all for governor.

    I think everyone should pay really close attention to this race for Washington’s governor. If Chris Gregiore loses, it may be her support for O that cost her the election.

  136. tle

    what Obama was talking about just before he called Palin a pig–he was plagiarizing a cartoon:


  137. Time for a full-on women take-over of the



  138. kjmontana:

    neither Cantwell nor Murray endorsed Obama until after the primary, if then.

    I would describe their support as “tepid, if at all.”

    I’m with you as far as Gregoire goes – am still considering if I can handle voting for her – but am NOT voting for Obama.

  139. BRAVA! RD.

    As far as the demographics you are dead on with the boomerbabies.
    The McC/Palin ticket now looks far more Democratic than the Democratic Party, and the anti-feminist attacks of late?

    the TRUE SELVES of narcissism show their “shadow side” — if RAGE is the top — sadness, emptiness are under toe surface.
    We see the Shadow side in the anger, those that cannot see the shadow are the mirror image. The “emo” kids have taught me a lot about the “vampires” —— here they are, more than likely the PROZAC no PROSAIC set — this would explain what happened over at Cheeto d’Orangeville. Place del Huff, and other assorted journos with la meme probleme…………………….

    It just goes to their HEADS, doesn’t it.

    Our crowd, speaks from the HEART!


  140. […] supporting SoetorObama: it’s about trust Posted by hillbuzz under Uncategorized   Wednesday: Obama’s loss is a matter of trust Posted on September 10, 2008 by […]

  141. You ladies do know how Obama reached his first elective office, do you not? Candidates needed petitions with signatures to get on the ballot. Both of his opponents on the South Side of Chicago had more than enough signatures . . . . That is, they did until Obama’s attorneys “examined” the petitions – and were able to get enough “thrown out” as “inappropriate” – so that their petitions were rendered ineligible.

    Obama won because he was the only candidate on the ballot. And he was the only candidate on the ballot because he resorted to either “dirty tricks” or some arcane technicality that KO’d his opponents.

    No one should be surprised that Obama is still pulling this sort of schtick.

  142. I’m not a Democrat, but I have a huge problem with this. As a Florida voter who happened to watch the DNC, I was suprised, to say the least, to hear them cast their Votes towards Obama, knowing he WAS NOT even on the ballot in this state.

    I was asking “what the hell are they doing?” Those votes are supposed to go to Hillary” Yes, I was even yelling at the TV.

    A lot of my Republican friends have asked why I am so upset, because they know I would not have voted for her anyway. I tell them that is NOT the point, the point is HE did not carry Florida, and for them to betray the voters here, and cast those votes towards Obama is wrong. I would be just as livid if it happened on the Republican side of the fence.”

    I am truly flabberghasted.

  143. Hi Peg, Yes, I did know that about Obama. It is the way he does things. He quibbles and bends the rules to his advantage. He is truly a loathsome, unethical man who feels he can get away with anything… because he always has.

  144. Very good post and timely. The roll call vote and their reasons for wanting to humiliate Hillary Clinton are beyond reason. They had the votes, it was a small victory, but they could have accepted it, put out their hand in friendship, thanked everyone who worked so hard for both sides and asked everyone to unite for victory. There would have been cheering and hugging and the sounds of “happy days are here again” and at this time Obama would be up by 15 points. The roll call vote should be what unites us to take down the Democratic leadership and the rebuilding of the Democractic party.

  145. The roll call was MOST significant since Hillary was the first viable and experienced female candidate in a very long time. She also got more votes than any candidate in history. They could not even bother after ALL the misogyny in this campaign, to give her and her supporters the common courtesy of a full roll call vote. This is unprecedented and it was a slap in the face to every person who supported her.

    Some even had the nerve to complain when she was “allowed” to give a speech on the anniversary of women getting the right to vote. That I will never forgive. Especially since on such a historic occasion it was used to point up just how little our votes counted.

    I am still baffled how anyone can even think her supporters could vote for him after that. How could we reward the D.N.C. after such a humiliation? There’s never been a candidate in such a historic race with more votes and less respect.

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