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Drawing the Line

It has come to our attention that Obama is going to bring out his big gun to neutralize Sarah-cuda.  From the NYTimes an hour ago, we have this, Obama Camp Turns to Clinton to Counter Palin:

ST. PAUL — Senator Barack Obama will increasingly lean on prominent Democratic women to undercut Gov. Sarah Palin and Senator John McCain, dispatching Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to Florida on Monday and creating a rapid-response team to deploy female surrogates to battleground states, Obama advisers said on Thursday.

Mrs. Clinton’s campaign event in Florida, her first for Mr. Obama since the Democratic convention last month, will include a forceful response to the searing attacks and fresh burst of energy that Ms. Palin injected into the race with her convention speech on Wednesday night, Obama aides said.

This is a career ending move for Obama for countless reasons.  Let me enumerate a few:

!.) Let me get this straight, Sarah-cuda beats you up and steals your lunch money and instead of standing up for yourself, you write a little note about how she hurt your feelings as a community organizer and you send out another girl to fight your battle.  Er, OK.  Will you also be sending her out to do business with the Russians, the North Koreans, the health insurance biggies?  How about if she does all the debates for you too?   Because if you need Hillary to do all the fighting on your sorry ass behalf, then maybe she should be nominee.

2.) Your damn surrogates in the blogosphere have been raking Sarah Palin over the coals for 6 days now.  6 Days!  No panty was left unsniffed, no ovary unexamined, no uterus unexplored.  You have done the same crotch shot of Sarah Palin in 6 days that it took the Republicans 8 years and $40 million dollars to do to Hillary Clinton.  And Sarah still kicked you in the junk and gave you a wedgie.  And guess what , Barack.  We *liked* it.

3.) It won’t do you a bit of good.  We LOVE Hillary Clinton and we want you to treat her with respect.  If you send her to Florida to kick in Sarah’s teeth, we will see it as a mark of disrespect for her.  She is a brilliant politician and a dedicated public servant, not your personal gladiator.

4.) She would do this for the party and the Democratic principles that she believes in.  But after this primary season where she was treated so horribly by her own party, we are beginning to think that Hillary and Bill Clinton are the only ones in the party who still *have* any Democratic principles.  Now, she will write a brilliant and probably very convincing speech as to why we should not support John McCain and Sarah Palin.  And she would be right if the party she represents weren’t composed of a bunch of middle aged white sexist men.  We want to get rid of those middle aged sexist men.  We will be voting for downticket Democrats who represent our values.  But we won’t be voting for you under ANY circumstances.  If the party finds itself in a pickle now with an unelectable nominee, then we have a suggestion for it:  CHANGE THE NOMINEE!

5.) It is time Hillary Clinton stopped being a doormat.  If it’s campaign debt that keeps her indentured to you, we’ll have as many fundraisers as we need to to pay it off.  But there is no reason you need Hillary to go after Palin.  Get Richardson to do it.  Or Dodd or Edwards.  Ahh, but it has to be Hillary, right?  Because otherwise it looks like these guys are attacking a female.  What does that suggest to us?  Well, to me it means that you got a problem with women.  Color me shocked.

If Hillary is out there reading, don’t do it for him.  Or if you must, stick to the Conflucian rules: No character assassination and no rumormongering without evidence.  Actually, we can trust you to behave honorably but it’s the creeps you are promoting who won’t.  So, ask yourself, where do you draw the line?

For us, this is it.

399 Responses

  1. If Hillary does this, I’m taking one gold star away from her name…I know she’s got about 20 with me, but still.

    It will disappoint me greatly.

  2. I just heard the news–my husband is flipping so I think it was Greta who said it. Not certain. My first response was a very loud FUCK THE DNC. I believe I scared the cat.

  3. I really don’t want Hillary to enable people to start some silly comparisons between her and Palin.

    Palin’s competition is BO and she had more fun today knocking him around on the campaign trail.

  4. Hillary is one amazing human being. Treated like crap, but still willing to fight for what she believes in–the Democratic Party and the values they are supposed to stand for. I know of few people who can endure what she has, and do it with a warm and gracious smile.

    BTW, I think Palin kicked O’Biden in the junk, not “nads”. C’mon, just cause you’re older, RD, doesn’t mean you have to use archaic terminology ;p.

  5. Junk. Right. I knew that.

  6. Obama calls and Hillary comes running? Sounds like enabling.

  7. Joe Biden referred to Sarah Palin as “Lieutenant Governor” today.

    “The other thing I heard, I heard a very by the way, and I mean it sincerely, a very strong and a very good political speech from a lieutenant governor of Alaska, who I think is going to be very formidable,” he continued. “Very formidable, not only in the campaign but in the debate.”


    Nice, Joe. Condescension and disrespect for your opponents will probably work out just great for the ticket.

  8. I have faith…really..that Hillary will navigate through this with subtlety, and rise to the occasion of supporting the party, without truly taking Palin on.

    I’m just AMAZED that I actually liked John McCain tonight.

    People really do walk around with “filters” on…mine is officially removed.

  9. The Obama campaign want Hillary Clinton to keep hogging the limelight? Didn’t people write how much the Clintons had to be dragged kicking and scream off the stage because they refuse to understand it’s now Obama’s?

    How about purging the Clintons and their supporters to have a younger and more urban Democratic Party?

    Moreover, she’s still running around doing fundraisers to wipeout her debt after Obama’s donors gleefully refused to help her.

    She should tell’em to go pound sand.

  10. Let Biden do it! HE IS THE VP NOMINEE, not Hillary!!!


    If she has to fight his battles – that’s right RD, let her be the NOMINEE!

    He has the problem with women so now Hillaty has to fix it? Why doesn’t HE FIX IT!!!

    F__ckers. I am soooooo steamed over this.

  11. Hear, hear! I’m beginning to wonder about Hillary, quite frankly. I always knew she was an imperfect human, but I never expected perfection from my candidates. But I’ve lost some respect for her after watching that Convention, and this won’t help. I still think she would make the most effective president of anyone today in terms of day to day governance, but she is looking more and more like a doormat, and I’m having a harder time stomaching it. I fleshed it out somewhat in Rock Star vs Porn Star. (also tackled Roland Martin’s meltdown head on).

  12. Did you all see that now they’re throwing garbage out there about “Palin attended 6 different colleges”?

  13. Attack Obama and Biden, not Hillary.

    Question the media as to why Hillary was not chosen as nominee or VP when Obama/Biden need her so much.

  14. Oh, this is nonsense. She’s not his mommy, what is she supposed to do, be on call everytime he can’t handle things by himself, which is always?

  15. Ha! destardi, are they really. That doesn’t bother me, since I attended four. And it took me 12 years to even get my degree because I had to fight for every inch of it.

  16. BB: He’s raising expectations for her in debate. Jeez, Joe, you have YEARS of debate experience from you senate days. Hey! Maybe we should find some old videos of Biden on CSPAN that shows just how good he is speaking.

  17. When will Senator Clinton tell backtrack
    “carry your own load, I am tired of carrying you”
    I respect Senator Clinton but door mats only get walked on.
    If you do everything for someone, they never learn to do for themselves.
    backtrack’s load is getting heavy.

    She owes backtrack and the faux new democratic party NOTHING.



  18. Maybe they’ll just move the red phone to the Senate chamber is he wins…

  19. IF he wins, rather….

  20. MABlue,

    Next I expect Obama to ask Hillary to represent him in the debates with McCain.

  21. annabell, I can’t STAND that little slug of a man Roland Martin.

  22. LOL@BostonBoomer!

    I wouldn’t put it past him.

  23. They’re this close to turning Independent.

    If it weren’t for 2012 and the PUMAs…

  24. LOL@bostonboomer. So now she’s relegated to being his understudy. I mean, isn’t that it?

  25. November 5 is coming.

  26. Awesome, RD. I will NEVER vote for him. Never.

  27. BB: Like a pinch hitter.


  28. Hillary doesn’t have to agree to do it. I’m with Annabellep. Whats going on here? Why is she agreeing to this?

    Maybe to show she’s the one with the junk in prep for 2012?

    I also agree with Mawm, if there is ANY noticable improvement in quality of life in the next four years, Hill would have a tough struggle against Sarah.

  29. On PBS a talking head dude just said he’d liked to meet any of the “only three women in existence” who supported Hillary who’d vote for McCain because of Sarah Palin, because he’d take them to lunch.

  30. Hillary hardly comes running.

    Advisers to Mrs. Clinton, who has been on vacation this week, said that she stands ready to help the Obama-Biden ticket, but they urged not to overestimate the effect she could have, noting that she had other commitments this fall, like campaigning and raising money for Senate candidates.

  31. I attended AT LEAST four colleges. Got my degree at 24. And paid my loans for the next 12 years (with those shitty deferments).
    Bush went straight through Yale. What’s the point?

  32. Biden, there he goes again. Obama didn’t make a good choice there I guess, on the appearance of it, if the aim was to go for statesmanship and gravitas. The GOP will make sure of that..

    Based on a few blog comments I’ve seen here and there and maybe Limbaugh is at it, it seems to me there is a smear campaign going, to accuse Biden of having a drinking problem. Such as that YouTube video of a guy dancing around and singing and acting a fool, which IMHO is clearly NOT Biden. I just don’t want anything to do with that, I think it’s a dirty trick. He puts his foot in his mouth a whole lot sure, that’s just who he is.

    GOP not stupid though, that’s why Rove accidentally on purpose called him a buffoon doofus the other day. And now why they’re going to run interference by demanding to know why Obama doesn’t drop Biden from the ticket and didn’t have the good sense to pick Hillary. Again only observing here. It’s a very good question why he didn’t have the good sense to pick Hillary.

  33. HI annabellep,

    Long time!

  34. SM,

    You know what I’m getting really tired of? The way they keep referring to us as uneducated, low income, Reagan Democrats. Excuse me. I’m not rich, but I’ve got a couple of degrees and I’m working on another one. And I definitely didn’t vote for Reagan.

  35. RD: “Get Richardson to do it. Or Dodd or Edwards. Ahh, but it has to be Hillary, right? Because otherwise it looks like these guys are attacking a female. What does that suggest to us? ”

    It suggests to me the early debates where ALL these guys ganged up on her. Pathetic! And she came out shining.

    Dump Obama!

  36. dg,

    Obama probably told Biden to call her Lt. Gov. That one has his passive-aggressive fingerprints all over it. I’m surprised Biden didn’t scratch his face with his middle finger when he said it.

  37. The NYT article does say “Advisers to Mrs. Clinton said that she stood ready to help the Obama-Biden ticket, but they urged the campaign not to overestimate the impact Mrs. Clinton could have, noting that she had other commitments this fall, like campaigning and raising money for Senate candidates. ” This is highly qualified language being used here and clearly indicates that she does not want to do it and has better things to do. Obama sounds freaked out and desperate.

  38. If Hillary does this….I will rethink my opinon of her….

    At some point, you must do the right thing. At this point, she must do the right thing…she simply must.

  39. Hillary ……..You are walking on thin ice. And we are watching you, you. you you you you you………later.

  40. HRC isn’t good enough to be on the same ticket as the “One” but she is good enough to defend his honor. I don’t know if I’ve ever mentioned this — but F U Obama.

  41. reg–i like the sound of that.

  42. Hillary will be out there because she very publicly promised to do anything she was asked to help elect Obama. She keeps her promises. Barack doesn’t.. Seems a good plan for her to put it out there that she can’t bring all those disaffected Democrats home. That is Obama’s responsibility.

  43. This only makes me loathe Obama more. I live in Florida. Hillary, honey, we have hurricanes coming, stay home.

  44. Regency,

    LOL! How very diplomatic and yet subtly snotty at the same time. Go Hillary go!

  45. dg: “It’s a very good question why he didn’t have the good sense to pick Hillary.”

    Ummmm – because the dramatic contrast would make him look like Dubya vis a vis Cheney?

    Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

  46. well said,

    sarah 08, its the only way

  47. Isolde: “Obama sounds freaked out and desperate.”

    Obama is whiney little weenie. Why not have Michelle do it? She’s a tough broad. Maybe she could call Gov. Palin a rac*st. That’d probably work.

  48. It’s laughable to think that Joe Biden = Darth Cheney. They wish. Dick is competent, he’s just satan.

  49. I think everyone should remember that every time Hillary does something for Obama she has cut a deal. And, because its Hillary, it will be something for the citizens not something for herself.

    I think she has already received assurances from him (and all those old white men in the senate) that her universal health care plan will be the chosen one and Obama’s has been deep-sixed. I also think she has succeeded in getting his notions about privatizing social security thrown out the window.

    Not sure what the trip to Florida is worth but I am sure she will get some policy change or assurance from Obama or she won’t go.

  50. Frankly I think Biden said it because when he starts talking he CAN be sort of a doofus. Not that he isn’t actually smart or capable, I’m sure he is, but it’s like for every brilliant one-liner you get one major foot-in-mouth gaffe. I’m still trying to figure out what the deal was with all that random sh!t he said during the Alito hearings. WTF was he talking about, college football? It was bizarre.

  51. Boston: Why not have Michelle do it?

    Brilliant. We can see why the Revolution began in Boston. Leave it to Boston. She has just the right nasty edge.

  52. No matter which way you slice this .. if Hillary does this it will diminish her …
    Isnt this traditioal sexism and misogyny at its finest have a good “cat fight” for the amusement of the men “Pit the women against each other so they dont unseat the men from power?
    This is sickening I hope Hillary doesnt do it

    PS Jon Stuart and Steven Colbert are pigs

  53. I think Hillary is solidifying her word. She said she’d campaign. She’s doing what she said she’d do. Now if she actually believes any promises he makes THEN I will start doubting her.

    Until then, I’m fine. I don’t expect perfection. I don’t expect to know everything going down because I never have. I don’t expect her to stomp her foot and leave. I expect her to do as is her word and I expect Bill to keep making off-hand remarks about “Candidate X” and “Candidate Y”

  54. obama on oreilly, ha
    obama looked like a weasel not very presidential at all

  55. Greta playing a clip of Bill-O talking to Obama. Bill-O very clever body language sitting back in his chair like “Impress me.” Obama said the surge succeeded “beyond his wildest dreams.” What did he say about the surge last year? There must be some interesting comments on the record.

  56. BZero, like the serial user he is, wants Hillary to drive up her negatives by taking on Palin. At times I really think that the DNC has a primary objective of driving the Clintons from the political scene forever and electing BZero is a secondary concern.

    Hillary is too smart for this — she’ll hand him a cup and a couple of prosthetic marbles and send him packing.

  57. The media……normaly……should have a field day, asking Hillary to again help. Obama. But, they won’t.

  58. Dee: Good point. She’s a negotiator.

  59. Everyone think back to last summer when Hill said “the surge is working but”….Now remember all the kossacks going crazy. remember. Ok, so this from BO in his O’Reilly interview:

    “I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,” Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. “I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”

  60. Hello All, I have never posted here before, but I just want to say that although I don’t agree with this, I see that she has to do it.

    If he looses, she has to make sure she isn’t blamed for it. She has to appear that she did everything she could for him. And she has to get good with the AA community and the youth for 2012.

    Also, about 2012, I do think she can beat Sarah, if Sarah and Hillary decide to go that route. In 4 years, things will be in a equal playing field, and neither will be “new” to the spotlight. I think in this case, Hillary will have the edge, as the economy and social issues, will probably be a big deal. McCain will/can only do so much to clean up Bush’s mess, I think it will take a long time and by the end of McCain’s first term, things will not be as prosperous and people hope they would be, which gives Hill the edge against Palin, who will be attached to everything good and bad of the McCain presidency.

  61. Just had another thought – Maybe Hillary wants to chair the Senate Foreign Relations Committee currently held by Biden or move up on the Judicary Committee.

  62. I’ve thought since the beginning that HRC knows BO can’t win. So now would be a good time to step back and be the only person not to go down with teh Titanic. great, you gave it a go, you’re party loyal to a fault, you did what you could. Jump off and swim away as hard and as fast as you can.

  63. Seriously: I think she already is. “Previous engagements”? Really?

  64. Again Hillary to keep her political career absolutely had to promise, in public, to do all she could to support Obama. And she has to keep that promise. There’s just no way around it. But if Obama can’t win over the voters, that’s on Obama.

  65. Isolde: Freaked out and desperate is right. Murphy said that the GOP will have dispatched Obama by the end of September. I thought she was being optimistic. But it looks like Obama himself is speeding this along. The meltdown is is happening much more rapidly than I thought. He’ll be toast by this time next week at this rate.

  66. Hi Ana,

    Welcome, and please keep on posting.

  67. Thank you RD. I have felt like I have been tripping on acid since Palin’s speech. Nothing makes sense. The republicans have a woman on the ticket not the democrats? After all of our blood ,sweat and tears THE REPUBLICANS? This post helped me come down and get closer to reality.

  68. Hi Joanie! Yeah, it’s been a while. Sorry, but my own blog has been slowly blossoming and I’m working a lot at the new job. It’s nice to visit again, though. And it was so nice meeting RD in Denver.

  69. Bostonboomer, I think they have locked Michele in the basement. They cannot afford any verbal slippage at the moment. But can Obama ever do anything for himself? He is starting to look helpless with this “Save me Hillary” plan.

  70. I think Hill and Bill are smart, and they already mapping their strategy for 2012. I don’t think she is going to talk about Palin, going out for Obama keeps her in the spotlight and helps her stay relevant, which she needs to take down Palin in 2012, you don’t want to end up getting marginalized and removed. So we’ll see how it goes for her. I’ll be watching to see what she does.

  71. Thanks for the welcome bostonboomer

  72. Ok, so I was in a bookstore tonight and a very young couple were there. The guy told his girlfriend “Everyone is moving to McCain”. The girl was like “no way”. But he said, “yes. I talked to so and so, and aeveryone likes that Palin and they are moving to him”. So this is the great, brilliant youth vote? heh. Looks like Obama may be flavor of the month, last month.

  73. RD,

    It’s almost sad. Obama doesn’t seem to have an answer to any of these attacks. All he does is complain. He’s going down in flames.

  74. RD: The ticket is not stable – someone is going. He’s acting like a child – I thought Dubya was bad!

  75. ‘If he looses, she has to make sure she isn’t blamed for it.’

    How? They blame her for everything.Guaranteed, that if she goes negative on palin, the talking points after they win will be ‘So what did clinton accomplish? She was our ace. she didn’t deliver. Hlaary got beat by mccain/Palin.” It doesn’t help her at all, and can only hurt her among her supporters.

  76. I wrote in a thread this morning about an observation I made here at home today and the panic mode at the Obama HQ confirms this.

    A very good friend of mine came to see me today and asked if I could get her Palin’s speech online. In the middle of the speech she said to me “we are fucked”. At the end she said she couldn’t care less about Palin’s boilerplate Rep policies but she’ll vote for her.

    Keep in mind this is a highly educated woman (pharmD) who lives in a Boston suburb. I though what would happen with middle class women in “Middle America” once the saw Palin out there as the only female on a ticket.

  77. 5.) It is time Hillary Clinton stopped being a doormat. If it’s campaign debt that keeps her indentured to you, we’ll have as many fundraisers as we need to to pay it off. But there is no reason you need Hillary to go after Palin.


    Just so all of you know, my first monetary contribution this year will go to putting Hillary’s debt to rest. I rarely donate to national campaigns, or the RNC, and only give to local candidates. This year I planned on sending a donation to John McCain/Sarah Palin, but I already give him every spare moment of my time.

    How do I donate?

  78. Advisers to Mrs. Clinton, who has been on vacation this week, said that she stands ready to help the Obama-Biden ticket, but they urged not to overestimate the effect she could have, noting that she had other commitments this fall, like campaigning and raising money for Senate candidates.

    I’m with you Regency. Hillary is keeping her word, but she will do it in her own way. Don’t forget, if she is still presenting herself to the public as a leader in the Party, a symbol for a potential future run. Especially if she is out there debating the policies of Palin. She will NOT be disrespectful of a fellow woman or her friend McCain. I have faith in her.

  79. Just heard frm Terry McAullif saying Hillary is booked solid thru election day. Looks like the dems are really scared. Obama is using Hillary. I think she should’nt do it!

  80. “Let me get this straight, Sarah-cuda beats you up and steals your lunch money and instead of standing up for yourself, you send out a little note about how she hurt your feelings as a community organizer and you send out another girl to fight your battle.”

    Oh-so-funny!!! I think Hillary should stay out of it and come back to fight in 4 years. BO has made some very bad choices, let him carry his own water. Too many people have already had to do his work…this Registered Dem will be voting for McCain/Palin 2008 and Clinton/Clinton 2012.

  81. Ana: No matter what she does, she will be blamed for Obama’s defeat. She could literally do all of his debates and write all his speeches and kiss all of the babies and develop all of his policies and it wouldn’t make any difference at all. When he loses because we never wanted him in the first place, they are going to blame her.
    So, if that’s the grim reality, why bother? Why not keep a low profile and let Obama be the great leader everyone has claimed he is? Here’s his chance ot lead. Lead, Obama, Lead!

  82. BB: And what’s he gonna do if we’re attacked again? Or if he can’t broker one of his “treaties” ?

    This is like a comic strip.

  83. p.s. That does NOT mean I am not disgusted by BO’s tactics of using her. I wish she could/would just tell him to stick it. She is entangled in the Party in a number of ways. There are downticket Dems depending on her help in their races, with fundraising, with committees and legislation. It’s more complicated than meets the eye. She’s a pro.

    NOW BED!!!

  84. i think it’s time for hillary to start asking the same question of herself that she asked of us:

    hillary, are you in it for obama or for the american people?…
    just askin’

  85. RD: He blew his chance to look presidential last weekend when he did NOT go to the Gulf and fill sandbags but just emailed everybody.
    Big effing deal. Big effing ego!

    Everybody is seeing the meltdown – Hillary cannot be blamed.

  86. Riverdaughter,

    Excellent. Brilliant, in fact. And thanks.

  87. Republican Woman: go to hillaryclinton.com

  88. She’s doing the campaign appearances. Short of Bill having a heart attack tomorrow, she’s doing the appearances. End of story. Oh how we wish she would do whatever isn’t going to change the grim reality that that damned Hillary Rodham Clinton is a woman of her word.

    Is she going to take attack Sarah Palin? Not a chance. Attack her policies? Maybe. She’ll probably stick to the III Bush term meme the dems have tried and failed to propagate. She knows what works. She unlike Obama does not have a political tin ear. She knows what’sgonna hurt her. She may figure it out too late but she sure as hell knows.

    As her good friend Madeline Albright says, “There’s a special place in hell for women who don’t help women.” There’s no place in hell for Hillary–at least not for this.

  89. Jeebus Crispies, does this fool not know how WEAK his ass looks sending out Hill to prop him up?

  90. When Hillary goes out to one of these appearances, she attracts huge, adoring crowds. All she has to do is talk about her own policies and then promise that Obama will enact them–just like she did in her suspension and conventions speeches. Then he’ll have to take the heat if he gets elected and doesn’t fulfill those promises. And Hillary will be in the Senate pushing, pushing, pushing. He’ll never be rid of her.

  91. RD, I would have agreed a couple of weeks ago, but that was before Palin came to the scene. I think before Palin, Clinton would have been blamed, now I think the blame will fall on Obama and the DNC. Even in the comments area, no one is blaming Clinton anyone, not even the Obama supporters. They realize that a woman on the ticket with McCain as the Maverick team is going to hurt Obama, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. I do think its okay for Clinton to lightly campaign for Obama, like she is going to do for others, but that’s about it. She has to stay relevant, especially with Palin on the scene.

    Because assuming McCain wins this year, and in 2012 its Clinton vs. Palin, she is going to need to be out here now, ramping up support to defeat Palin in 2012. Plus, it might helps retire her debt.

    I personally think if it comes down to 2012 and social issues, Hillary has the edge on Sarah, because Sarah’s conservative views are too extreme, not to mention she wont be the new woman on the block anymore, and will be attached to whatever a McCain presidency brings, which I don’t think will be all that great.

  92. Reg: You are making me cry (again). What a nightmare all of this is.

  93. OMG!!! I can’t take it anymore! When is Obama going to realize he has to fight HIS OWN battles? He’s now the nominee…its what he wanted….what he screwed Hillary and voters over to get……this is HIS election now. HE must do the work!!! This is what the dems get for coronating a lazy-assed candidate. I feel so bad for Hillary!!

    Obama is such a punk-beeyotch!!

  94. Headline News………Obama needs Hillary’s help…………again………..Has Obama and the DNC, have no shame.

  95. Still4Hill,

    What’s he gonna do if we’re attacked. Come on, you know the answer. He’ll call Hillary and ask her to handle it. Then he’ll take a week’s vacation at Camp David.

  96. Hillary has to get into the mud of election fight again? Why? For Obama?

    She needs to go on vacation. Once she’s out there, savaging her will become favorite pastime for the chattering class and the scribes again. The Rightwing will go back to vilifying her while the Dem “leadership” sits idly by.

    Let Obama send McCaskill and Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg.

    Let Hillary try to repay her debt. She’ll never get any credit for things she does for BO anyways.

  97. Hi PUMA’s… 🙂

    RD – your words expressed exactly the conversation my husband and I were just having on the topic. We’re both mad as hell. How dare he. How dare Obama think that he can use Hillary as some kind of dancing puppet – to be put on display, after the thorough disrespect he and his cronies heaped on her during the primaries.

    Barack should tell it like it really is… “Hillary I screwed up…I need help…I’m finding myself in deep waters and I need a life preserver”. *yeah, like he’d do that*

    But here is my problem: if he’s flustered already; if he’s been caught way off guard; if he’s scrambling to take on a curve ball thrown by McCain (a fellow American citizen) in the form of a strong charismatic female governor……HOW THE HELL DOES HE PLAN TO TAKE ON OUR ENEMIES? WHAT WILL HE DO IF AL-QUEIDA THROWS A CURVE BALL???

  98. riverdaughter, the Republicans have done very little to Obama. A little sarcasm is kidstuff. He is imploding all on his own and everyone is starting to see it. An old saying is never piss off the people who know you best. He did that to half of his own party so he now has half as many to defend him.

  99. MABlue: She’s already on vacation. They’re yanking her back.

    Still4Hill: There there,I’ll let you borrow my Hillary for a little while. She’d love to give you a nice hug. (Send her back!)

  100. How about sending Nancy Pelosi? She’s a meanie. I’ll bet she could think of some nasty things to say about Palin.

  101. BB: Nancy could just send her book. If that’s not enough to send “America’s Daughters” running, I don’t know what could.

  102. This is turning out just like that Saturday night live skit—the one where Obama’s calls Hillary at 3am crying because he doesn’t know what to do.

    For God sakes MAN-UP!! Leave poor Hillary in peace!

  103. Oh no!

    Things are getting outta hand. More people watched Palin than Obama.

    More than 40 million people see Palin speech

    Even the prize of kewl kid has been taken away from him. Poor BO.

  104. Jean: OMG I was just thinking that.I watched that 2 days ago and it was hilarious–mostly. Now it’s just prescient.

  105. Good idea MABlue. Maybe McCaskill’s daughter, you know, the one who said she would never speak to her Mother again if she did not endorse Obama, could give her some ultimatums about what to say while on the trail.

  106. I believe Hillary is booked solid mostly helped downticket dems and that we will see her on the stump for Obama only rarely. At least that is what I am feeling from what has been said.

  107. This is so pathetic!! Will Barry’s White House 3 am phone calls all be to Hill??? That Saturday Night Live skit months showing her running things was the truth!

  108. Lest anyone think differenently rest assured Hillary is still the ONE….
    here is but one reason why …
    SARAH PALIN as great as she is ; and i do like her while i still cringe at some of her political stances I remember very clearly that she has …walked into a drama ridden situation where the way had already been completely cleared. I think that is why she thanksed Hillary…
    if Hillary had not prepared the way and done al the work she had ..Sarah would simply be another barely known woman republican Governor and now VP candidate . She is LITERALLY walking in Hillarys footsteps , and while I dont think she could ever fill her shoes … She will still knock the bo crowd out of the race .
    If Hillary has to stump for bo and can find time in her busy busy busy schedule .. i sincerely hope she does not directly take on Sarah for those chickensh*ts …

  109. MABlue – I’m not so sure she’ll be attacked again post-convention speech.

    It’s a new ballpark now and everybody knows Obama has to show what he’s made of. We already know what Hillary is made of.

    He’s the international man of mystery recommended to Harvard via a request from Al-Mansour the former Black Panther and Saudi advisor.

    He’s going down. And Hillary will not have fired a shot.

  110. Jean, on September 5th, 2008 at 12:51 am

    lol! you beat me too it . But ain’t it the truth?
    This is BEFORE he’s even near the office. Lord help us

  111. paper doll – SNL was onto something. They turned mean against Hillary later, though.

  112. Maybe the kids should take to the trail. At least they know why they’re supporting Obama, that’s more than can be said for their parents. The actual supporters should be able to make a sincere case, if nothing else.

  113. I love the tag. It describes Obama perfectly.
    Fight your own battles, Obama!

  114. annabellep, on September 5th, 2008 at 12:13 am Said:

    “Hear, hear! I’m beginning to wonder about Hillary, quite frankly.”


    Oh, how I hate to say this, but don’t blame Hillary. Don’t bash her for trying to stand up for her Party. It’s not Obama she’s standing up for, it’s what she believes in that she’s standing up for.

    I have seen so much these past two years. I have a good friend who is RP, a man, who cried, because he is being vilified by the people he thought were his friends (other RP supporters) because he did what he felt was right. I have had people I thought were my friends turn their back on me because I supported a group who learned the rules, and didn’t allow the party to support to step all over them. I got involved in our local politics because there were dirty things going on and I didn’t like it, BUT, and I say this sincerely, I thought I was a strong woman, I thought I’d seen everything, but I really don’t think I have the stomach for local politics – I used to be friends with people who’s eyes I want to scratch out, whose throats I’d gladly slit, for the horrible things they say about me behind my back all because I disagree with the status quo. Instead, I have to smile. Instead, I have to kindly disagree. Instead, I have to stare my former friend in the eye, knowing the horrible things they have said about me, and say come November 5th, will we still be friends?

    That is local politics, on a local level. I can’t imagine what Hillary Clinton is thinking, I won’t even pretend, but the fact of the matter is she is still a Senator and she still has to represent the people who support her and get things done and she can’t do that if she walks away from it.

  115. Obama should be put on suicide, watch…. Be careful, they like taking someone with them…..like Hillary.

  116. Come on, y’all. Anybody heard a peep from Hillary since she first praised the historic nature of the SarahBarracuda pick? Nope. And that press release to the Times kind of says it all. “Um, I’m up for the bare minimum here. Tell ya what, I hear Joe’s got some time on his hands. Kisses, Hill”

    The fact that Sarah just sort of walked into this stunning new role, combined with the GOP’s huge welcome for and defense of her, has to hurt a hell of a lot. I seriously doubt Hillary’s going to take it out on Palin. Obama, maybe… (we can only hope).

  117. fif,
    In case you are still awake, thanks for your heartfelt comments on the previous thread.

  118. Obama does not want the damn JOB, he just wants the airplane and the Supastar Preznet Shiznet underoos.

  119. You are right, RD. If he needs Hillary to fight his battles then she should be the nominee and I guarantee she would never call on him to fight her battles. This guy is truly and empty suit sack of shit.

  120. Ugh!!! WE CANNOT LET THAT SELFISH USER USE OUR BELOVED HEROINE CLINTON!!!!!!! Obama has shown NO RESPECT to Clinton and her millions of supporters and now he expects her to help him win. If he wants to be POTUS he must stand on his own 2 feet and stop expecting Clinton to bail him out for everything!! She is NOT a doormat that he can just walk all over!


  121. joanna4McCain,
    “Just heard frm Terry McAullif saying Hillary is booked solid thru election day.”
    Is McAullif saying she does not have time to do it?
    Remember that Obama centralized all of the DNC money and he is not sharing with down ticket candidates, so Hillary would be in demand to fundraise and campaign. She may not have any time to save Obama’s butt because she is already saving everyone elses. Is McAullif saying too bad so sad and you should have asked her earlier? This is great.

  122. Whaaaaaaaaaaa. Mommy, make the mean lady stop making fun of me. Whaaaaaa whaaaaaa. Does the little Obambam have a boo boo. Ah, poor little Obambam.

    Meanwhile before Sarah’s speech, CBS poll has the race tied 42 to 42. Before Sarah’s speech. Um, it’s no longer time to just change Obambam’s shorts, it’s time to get him a diaper.



    It ENRAGES me to see how Obama treats Clinton 👿

  124. BTW – I don’t want Hillary flying to Florida right now. A few years ago Steinbrenner made the Yankees fly from Baltimore to Tampa with hurricanes in the area and it was very dangerous and a lot of people disagreed.

    There are hurricanes out there. Sorry, Obama I’m not letting Hillary go.

  125. Great post, Riverdaughter. Really, really good

    But, I have an idea about what Hillary’s doing. I think she’s doing the campaigning to please herself. So that whatever happens in the future, she’ll always know that she did everything she could to see that a Democrat wins in November.

    Since she’s not stupid, I think she knows that Obama’s not going to win.

    But, I don’t think she’s worried about the blame from anyone else. I think she promised Every Single Day all spring to work her heart out for the Democratic Ticket no matter who wins. And she doesn’t break promises.

    However hopeless the cause.

  126. MABlue – thanks for the link to article on viewer numbers. The best part – MSNBC had the lowest number of watchers. They need a major shakeup there at Pundits Interrupted.

  127. Still4Hill: I’ll second that emotion.

    But honestly if it’s dangerous the SS will step in and be all, “Nagahappen there, shorty.” That or Bill will. He’ll lift her up off her tiny heels and carry her back to Chappaqua.

  128. VA: Um, it’s no longer time to just change Obambam’s shorts, it’s time to get him a diaper

    I’ll send the 1st Dude from Alaska over to take care of that. He’s good with kids.

  129. Reg – Be still my heart. Thanks for reassuring me – I worry. Of course the Big PUMA won’t let anything happen to her. Or the SS.

  130. Why Hillary? Why not Nancy, Claire, Amy Klobuchar, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and all of the other Obama girl wannabes?

  131. Texas Pumas, Hillary’s coming town 9/21 for Sheila Jackson-Lee’s fundraiser! Woot. I’m going. I don’t care if I have class.

  132. See guys, having hillary campaign is a good thing it keeps here relevant. As of a couple of minutes ago, all we were talking about was Palin. Now we are back to Clinton. She just wants to make sure we don’t forget about her. That’s the best way to start campaigning for 2012.

  133. OBAMA ……..Have you no SHAME. Asking Hillary for help, again. Ask……Dean….Brazile…..Pelosi….Kerry….Kennedy…..McCaskill…..Richardson…..etc.

  134. Ana’s right – we kept saying we missed her.

  135. Advisers to Mrs. Clinton, who has been on vacation this week, said that she stands ready to help the Obama-Biden ticket, but they urged not to overestimate the effect she could have, noting that she had other commitments this fall, like campaigning and raising money for Senate candidates.


    Make special note of the above paragraph in the NYT article ==> Hillary Clinton wants to focus on her work…she is not Obama’s poodle. The fraud expects her to do all the work…we must make sure that he doesn’t get away with it.

    Clinton has done ALL that she can to tell her supporters to vote for BO, however, there is only so much she can do because we see what a fraud he is and how he essentially STOLE the election by not allowing an honest roll call. He slapped Clinton & her supporter’s in the face by having a SHAM roll call and then he expects us to vote for him — ROTFLMAO!!! He didn’t even have the courtesy to honor the historic achievement that Clinton accomplished for women…nah, he doesn’t respect women one bit, and that is why he has a woman problem now!! It is not Clinton’s fault that she has intelligent supporters who see through the marketed mirage and see what a disrespectful & weak candidate BO is.

    He wants women to do his work for him…well we don’t want a mommy’s boy running our nation!

  136. Regency, where can we get tickets? I have to be in Houston on the 23rd.

  137. Exactly Still4Hill. I think her going out there is a good thing, if she is really going to give it a try in 2012, and she believes this is a lost cause, then she has nothing to loose, she reminds people of who she is, and starts moving forward for 2012 early.

  138. Like I could forget Joan of Arc in a Pantsuit.

    That woman is Commander-in-Chief Superstar. Joan of Arc and the Technicolor Pantsuit.

  139. And what really ticks me off is that Obama’s not even helping her pay off her debt! Hillary is putting herself, her time, and her reputation on the line for him and this pathetic DNC…..and getting squat in return.

    All because she’s a selfless person and a loyal democrat. I’m so sick of seeing Hillary being screwed over.

    But folks, please don’t hold it against her!!!!! She’s in such an akward position. And she vowed many many months ago she would work her heart out for whoever the democratic nominee would be (but I’m sure she never imagined the nominee could be such a spineless jelly-fish at the time she said that, but I digress).

  140. Obama has plenty of women wanting to lick his boots so why doesn’t he send them out to do his work? I’m sure M Dowd will be eager to please 😉

  141. Does anyone have link to her release to the Times?

  142. Still4Hill

    SNL is NBC and NBC is MSNBC… Barry Love Boat HQ
    So it’s amazing Tina got as much good stuff for Hill on there as she did! lol!

  143. Can I make a request? When we quote someone can we provide a source (link or time/channel on TV)? It would help. There are many a troll who come and post random crap and it would be nice to be able to verify. Also, if it comes from certain blogs, etc., I’m much less likely to believe it.

  144. I have a wonderful friend who is an Obama supporter (yeah, not all of them are nasty, really!). All thru’ the primaries Hillary was a villain who was getting in the way of God’s will. Now of course Hillary is wonderful. Good things get said about Hillary a lot these days.

    Anyway, so my friend missed Palin’s speech yesterday and asked me this morning what I thought of it. I told her that Palin is awesome at the podium, that she can work the crowd like no other, that I have not seen anybody with that kind of confidence, timing and panache (I did not see Big Dawg in his hay days). And no one can match her talent for sarcasm.

    So the next question was “is she better than Hillary?” Mind you, she did not even bother to ask if she was better than Obama because that is not possible. I told her that Palin is nothing (NOTHING) compared to Hillary but she sure can give a speech. And in working the crowd, yes, she is better than anybody I know. We have had a tiff lately so I did not tell her that Palin is way, waY, WAAAY better than Obama.

    So my friend listens to a few minutes of the speech online and says “No she is not better than Hillary. No substance.”

    Oh the ironies of life …. “No substance”!!! I could have wept. “No substance” … that is precisely what I have been trying to tell her since January. Sigh!

  145. But isn’t he embarrassed that we all know and are talking about this? Shouldn’t he be?

    If I were in his boots I’d die of shame!

    Jean said “spineless jellyfish” – we had a bumper crop of jellyfish this year. Who knew they nominate one?

    What a wimp.

  146. Personally I don’t think Obama should have Hill go out there for him, at all. That might even hurt him more, if the media start crafting this as a 2012 race between Clinton and Palin, then it would start to be put under the assumption that he lost.

  147. Well that’s the article we’re all citing anyway.

  148. paper doll – good point – they are infected.

  149. Sorry GQ, after repeated copy and pastes the source tends to get lost.

  150. Ana, some have already. This GE is that much of a foregone conclusion. On to 2012.

  151. OMG, did you ever think you would see the day of Pat Buchanon literally calling out Chris Matthews “misogyny”? I’m stunned.

  152. I am gonna LAUGH MY ASS OFF once the press starts to run with the idea that Hillary has to bail out Barky from the big, scary Republicans.

    He’ll lose, she runs in 2012 and WINS 45 STATES.

    Hey, it could happen! 🙂 Love ya PUMAs!!

  153. Reg @ 1:16 – You just reminded me of Jack Nicholson’s spot for her. I loved that one.

  154. “well we don’t want a mommy’s boy running our nation!:

    Well, BO is not a mommy’s boy. John McCain is, he admits it. He respects and admires his mother. My husband is a “momma’s boy” and he does the laundry, he married an older woman (me), and he has been the absolute best husband ever.

    BO is not a momma’s boy. If he were, he would respect women.

  155. Hill will walk the tight rope as only Hill can . I think she ‘s going out there in part because she wants there be a Dem party to take over post Barry . Without her , it’s in question. She is taking over the Dem leadership right now .

  156. OT — I just waded over to the cesspool that TL has become (BTD is officially on sabbatical — popping up in Jeralyn’s Palin story in National Enquirer thread to write “I disassociate myself from this thread” — good on him, btw). Anyway, Jeralyn actually wrote the following in her “blog” of McCain’s speech (and I put “blog” in quotes because all she says is how boring the speech is):

    “He waves to the crowd. Sure looked like he raised his arm above his chest to me.”

    I don’t agree with McCain on the issues, but someone please explain to me what the h3ll kind of person would even think this, much less write it? Worse, she probably has no clue how vile she is being. I have lost all respect for Jeralyn and will not even grace TL with a hit anymore. I urge others here to do the same.

  157. S4Hill: “Nothing sexier than a woman you have to salute in the morning”

    –and I do every morning.

  158. “BO is not a momma’s boy. If he were, he would respect women.” Damn straight!

  159. Regency I haven’t seen the media post it, I have only seen people in the blogs saying it.

    Now I also think Hillary gets a plus from the Big Dawg in 2012 with blue collar, who love him, because that man has a great blue collar background. And Chelsea, who would campaign for the youth vote. Mind you they would have to work for the AA vote, but I don’t see them vote for Palin, and I think the Latino vote is a lock for Hill. But only time will tell what will happen.

  160. Statement of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
    Thursday, Sep 4, 2008
    The two party conventions showcased vastly different directions for our country. Senator Obama and Senator Biden offered the new ideas and positive change America needs and deserves after eight years of failed Republican leadership. Senator McCain and Governor Palin do not.

    After listening to all the speeches this week, I heard nothing that suggests the Republicans are ready to fix the economy for middle class families, provide quality affordable health care for all Americans, guarantee equal pay for equal work for women, restore our nation’s leadership in a complex world or tackle the myriad of challenges our country faces. So, to slightly amend my comments from Denver: NO WAY, NO HOW, NO McCAIN-PALIN.

  161. Ana: “if the media start crafting this as a 2012 race between Clinton and Palin, then it would start to be put under the assumption that he lost.”

    I has already started:

  162. “He waves to the crowd. Sure looked like he raised his arm above his chest to me.”

    They can’t help themselves. They just can’t.

  163. Hillary is putting herself, her time, and her reputation on the line for him and this pathetic DNC…..and getting squat in return.

    The candidates running in tough races downticket and left out in the cold by team Obama are going to remember.

  164. Still4Hill thanks for the post. Then according to that, I have to say that isn’t good news for Palin. I mean its that’s where she is starting out, then as with every candidate, that number will decrease as time passes by, which isn’t good news for her, but great for Hill.

  165. Destini: Well, if that’s what we’ve got to look forward to for the next seven weeks, I’m dying of suspense.


    The “new ideas” are her ideas, which is why she knows they’ll work.

  166. I just found this here


    Enough is enough. Let any of his Bot Bot surrogates do his dirty work. I know she’s in an awkward situation but after the way she’s been treated, maybe its time to say “No More.”

  167. Ana – and everybody:

    Hillary is rising.

  168. BRAVO Riverdaughter…BRAVO BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  169. Yeah, but almost everyone in the party already owes the Clintons a debt of loyalty, dg. They still all stabbed her in the back, practically.

  170. Seriously: Then they wiped the blood on her pantsuit and patted her on the ass to send her on her way.

  171. This shit so reminds me of obot husband who, when we were living together, used to have me make all the phone calls because he has an ever-so-mild stutter. After the umpteenth you-call-the-pizza-parlor, I exploded. “Do you mean to say you lived nine years as a bachelor in four cities and got a master’s degree all without my help but now you can’t order a pizza?”

    Jesus H. Christ on a pogostick. What lazy fucks they are.

  172. ugsome: LOL!!

  173. I’ll wait to see what is actually said if anything. If Hillary does go after Palin and tries to engage her personally, then I think Palin would be smart to redirect the conversation back to Obama and not make it about her and Hillary, which is nothing but a distraction and a waste of time. My bet is that Sarah Palin is too smart to fall for such tactics.

  174. I still don;t think this is bad for Hill. So far, she isn’t saying anything derogatory about Palin. She has kept it pretty clean, and as long as she goes that route, she will be fine, and will be prepared for 2012, if Obama loses.

  175. LOL

  176. I lost track of time – up at 6 and a class tomorrow night.

    Thanks for the post RD – a great one.

    Goodnight all!

  177. V, I don’t think Hillary is going to go after Palin, she is a too smart for that. Although I do think that Palin would go after Hillary, if Hillary went after her, but I don’t think Hillary will. It wouldn’t benefit her at all.

  178. S4Hill: Hillary says sleep well!

  179. Actually any personal or even professional attack Hillary could make against Palin would be so painfully hypocritical she’d burn herself. She’s been a career woman all her adult life. Chelsea grew up with her running from the law office to the governor’s mansion to the white house and not just for tea parties.

    No, she ain’t going there. She may have fallen on her sandwich toothpick, but she ain’t slamming down on the sabre just yet.

  180. I sure hope Hillary stays out of the Palin battle. I believe Palin and McCain are a good match and will be good for our country. The more Hillary allows herself to be a doormat for Obama the less I will respect her. If she is to be fit to lead this country one day, then she needs to show us that she can stand up to political pressure and do the right thing. It would please me if she and Bill would go on a much needed vacation together and get out of this fray.

  181. Exactly Regency. I think Hillary is going to attack McCain and not Palin, after all, if Obama wants to win he is better off ignoring Palin, not paying too much attention to her. But I think the strategy might be to lure Palin or the GOP into saying something negative about Hillary. That way Hillary’s supporters become turned off by the McCain ticket.

  182. It doesn’t necessarily even have to be an attack, though. Lots of people are just over her helping out Obama. The more she does, the more she risks imo.

  183. They’re alread ON vacation. My God the woman’s got to show up to do her job sometimes. She can’t hide indefinitely. Tried that and still came back early.

  184. Country First, I think this is all about strategy, the Clinton are politicians, and they are smart ones. So I think campaigning for Obama or any down ticket DEM, helps them restore their image, not hurt them. Plus I don’t think that having Hillary bail you out, helps Obama at all, it shows everyone that he is weak, and that she should have been the nominee.

  185. But what all has Hillary done? I mean really. As much as we were expecting her to do, she’s done maybe a handful of events. I never watched most of them so they never had any affect on me. She kept her word even if it was something she didn’t want to do. I for one found that more important. Because if she hadn’t neither party would have let her forget it.

  186. Did you all see this over at bitter politicz:

  187. Hi PUMAs. I am not a PUMA, but I support your effort to force the Democratic party to become more democratic.

    I just wanted to point one of your statistically-inclined members to SUSA’s state by state polls like the swing state of Iowa. If you look at question 2 (Obama’s favorability) and the crosstab over to the right for pro-life v. pro-abortion, it shows that 28% (subject to rounding error) of PRO-CHOICE Iowans have an unfavorable (rating 1-3) view of Obama (and nearly 20% have the most unfavorable view). The media has much discussed McCain’s unfavorable ratings among conservatives, but notice that his unfavorable ratings (1-3) are only at 22%. PUMAs have stronger resistance to Obama than conservatives do to McCain.

    That is in a state that seems to be split 47%-49% between pro-life and pro-choice. Seems like, in a state like Iowa and perhaps others, pro-choice Americans who came out of the primaries with an unfavorable view of Obama are potentially “Teh Swing Voters” for such a state. That might be leverage that PUMAs can use at the state level (perhaps, to get the state parties to enact primaries or support an effort to make the DNC impose uniform primary rules). Community organizing is teh bomb, you know!

  188. Stopping the roll call was a pretty big deal to a lot of people.

  189. I truly wish Bill and Hillary would stay out of this. The Democrats were clear – Hillary won 18 million votes and they didn’t care. They rejected her not once, but several times. They rejected having superdelegates vote based on their constituents votes if they were for Hillary. They rejected counting the voices of voters in Florida and Michigan. They rejected a floor fight. They rejected a fair roll call vote. They rejected Hillary as VP. They rejected Bill and said he was a racist.

    Enough is enough. I wanted Hillary – not Sarah Palin.

    Hillary told me never give up – never give in.

    Hillary gave up. Hillary gave in.

    My choice is Sarah Palin as VP as opposed to Hillary as President.

    I am sorry, I will lose respect if Hillary campaigns against Sarah Palin.

    I want to see a woman in the White House in my lifetime.

    I wanted it to be Hillary. I would have voted for Hillary as an Independent or a McCain/Clinton ticket. I wrote her campaign and begged her Not to drop out.

    Hillary made her choice. I became physically ill and went into a depression when she quit. I was with Hillary 1000%. But, now she needs to stand back while Governor Palin shatters the 18 million cracks she left in that glass ceiling.

    I think that Hillary sets a bad role model at this point. Men beat up on her because she is a woman and she is going to their defense. It is like an abused wife that supports and stands up for her abusive husband. At this point the men MUST apologize, admit their misogyny, set out to totally combat sexism as their number one goal and Hillary must agree to help them in this endeavor. If she helps defeat Governor Palin, she is setting the example that the Democrats way of treating women is right and the Republicans respectful way of treating women is wrong. I think she is in a no win situation and I don’t envy her.

  190. I think Hillary will do only what’s required to prevent her from being run over by the blame train. If Obama needs a nanny he should hire one.

  191. Not that they blame her–but that’s the point. Right now it’s like, the DNC and Obama are sadists making her do a damn thing. but if she’s out too much, some of that anger could be displaced onto her.

  192. I agree somewhat, Seriously. I wrote a few weeks ago that by kowtowig to Obama, she risks losing her image as a leader.
    Either that, or she continues to make people mad that Obama is the nominee. It works both ways, I guess, depending on what groups she is speaking to….

    Seriously, on September 5th, 2008 at 1:45 am Said:

    It doesn’t necessarily even have to be an attack, though. Lots of people are just over her helping out Obama. The more she does, the more she risks imo.

  193. Seriously: Not getting all of her delegates, that coupled with tales of the kind of intimidation they faced, was a pretty big deal to me. She knew what they were going through. I think she did this in the hopes that having it be over would relieve them from the strain they were under. Most of them buckled anyway once she “released.” What was the purpose by the end of that entire charade? There wasn’t one. All it did was show how corrupt the entire process was. It certainly wouldn’t have yieled her as the nominee.

  194. I swear to God the media talks ABOUT Hillary more than Hillary is actually out there.

  195. Hillary should let Obama sink on his own. He pointedly refused to pay off her $20 million campaign debt–which was the Clinton’s personal money–even though he raised half a billion dollars. If she jumps on the bash-Sarah bandwagon she’s just going to look as stupid as Gloria Steinem. Better for her to say polite things about Obama and take the high road. She has nothing to gain and everything to lose by getting into the muck.

  196. I understand that she’s being threatened up the wazoo, I don’t blame her and I don’t think anyone else does. But there is a LOT of anger out there, and like I said before I think she’s got to be careful that some of it doesn’t slop on to her as well, even though it’s not fair.

  197. I concede. Hillary can never ever do anything right even when she’s doing something good, like honoring a vow. You could feel a universe with the things Hillary do.

  198. Hillary should tell Obama the following:

    “Barack, you may be a millionaire, but you used up your “Phone a Friend” lifeline when you stabbed me and Lady Liberty in the back!”



    John and Sarah ’08 !!

  199. Hillary is smarter than attacking Palin personally…it will be all policy, policy, policy, for our girl and it always as been. But if I was Biden, I’d be embarrassed. This is his job…ouch. Great post riverdaughter

  200. I can no longer tell the difference between “fill” and “feel.” That means I’m way too tired to argue about it anymore.

    Night, night owls.

  201. Well the way I see it, is that Hillary is keeping her word, which I like. It shows true character. And I think as long as she just attacks McCain and/or sticks to policies she will be fine.

    Well goodnight everyone.

  202. Why does Obama want a r*cist like Hillary campaigning
    for him? The disadvantage of trashing the only
    two-term Dem. president since FDR and his Senator
    wife is that your campaign has rendered them ineffective
    as your helpmates. Makes Obama look hypocritical
    and weak (as he is).

    The Clintons have to redeem their standing because
    this trashy BO campaign tried to bring them down. Now
    he has the bad judgment to ask a woman (not one of his 99 problems)
    to take on the opponent’s VP).

    Palin looks like she really could take down Bambi in
    a hunt.

    In a barroom, would you want Hillary, McCain, or
    Precious on your side? Only one of these is a bit less brave
    than we need in prime time.

  203. Hopefully Hillary will refuse to be a doormat. I don’t care how much respect I once had for a candidate. I have no respect when they let themselves be walked on.

    Hillary should do a couple of appearances, and that should be it. Anymore? and I officially lose respect.

  204. TeresaA: You’d better send Hillary an email then because I bet she doesn’t know there’s a caveat to your loyalty. She doesn’t know that in a couple of days she’s not going to have it anymore.

    Trust me, she’s going to be stunned.

  205. HA! I guess Palin scared the bejesus out of the Obamacans. I just heard they collected $10M over night but I’m not sure money is going to be enough. Perhaps the Dems needed a candidate who could win and we all know how that person is.

  206. John and Sarah flew to Milwaukee tonight to start the general election.

    God speed John and Sarah!

  207. Hillary’s convention speech is a good tone for her: Here’s what I as a Democrat stands for and why Democratic principles are important. She needs to do that as much as possible.

    If Obama loses, the Dems are going to be in disarray, much worse than after 2004. They are going to need a leader and while Hillary is an obvious choice, I suspect that the nature of Obama’s loss will require a little distance from Obama and even Congressional Dems. But she also has to support the Democratic nominee.

    Does anyone remember Hillary talking about the Alinsky model and why she chose to be part of the “system”? (Its in her book.) Because she believes the best way to reform the system is from within. That may mean ugly sacrifices at times, but in the long run, she feels that is necessary.

    If Obama loses, the future direction of the party is, IMO, unknown. It could go the libertarian “creative class” path, or the Clinton/LBJ/FDR responsible government path. I hope its the latter. Without Clinton as a staunch Dem, it won’t.

  208. Here’s where I draw the line:

    ” It is time Hillary Clinton stopped being a doormat. ”

    Hillary Clinton is NOBODY’S doormat. That should be clear.

    And that is all.

  209. Sen. Clinton, stop being a doormat for the disgraced, racist and useless dem. party. Let Nobama and joejoe do their own

    I won’t vote for OBAMA, period.

  210. Obama can raise $10 million over night but can’t bother to raise more than $500K to retire Hillary’s debt.

    Unbecoming, let’s say.

  211. Seriously, on September 5th, 2008 at 1:51 am Said:

    Stopping the roll call was a pretty big deal to a lot of people.

    Uh, the total SHAM roll call was the tipping point for me!! I would’ve reconsidered my opinion of BO had he allowed an HONEST roll call where the delegates voted proportionally as the voters voted. I was ENRAGED that states like NH that she won were giving ALL their delegates to the fraud. Others states gave her a few crumbs…it was an utter slap in the face to Clinton in regards to her historic achievement that she accomplished for women!!

    Neither BO nor HRC got enough delegates to automatically become the nominee. Both needed superDs to put them over the top. An honest roll call would’ve allowed the regular delegates represent the American people who voted in the primary, then there would’ve been another vote where the SuperDs cast their official votes. Yes, they probably would’ve cast in favor of BO, but at least the regular roll call would’ve honestly represented the voters. I will NEVER FORGIVE the DNC nor BO for what they did to Clinton & her supporters!

  212. Hillary really is nobody’s doormat!

  213. if hillary becomes the attack dog then I will quit her and for good. It will mean she got paid or she is just a doormat and at that point I lose respect. She is my gal, but I need to see her return to strength.

    For now, its Sarah all the way.

  214. You know CB… the second Obama called the Clintons racist it sealed the deal for me. That man’s children will directly benefit from minority programs that Bill himself put in place. Talk about a back stabbing, win at all cost, shameless man. I will NEVER support Obama.

    For goodness sakes, the man left the Oval Office and moved to Harlem. Harlem! He single handedly raised property value in that neighborhood by over 20%. Freakin’ Obama and his kool-aid drinking Obamabots can rot in hell for calling my girl a racist. And now he wants her help? *$%#&@$*

    See? Now I’m all mad again. I need to go to bed.

  215. ok im tired, good night all

    sarah and john 08

    get out the vote

  216. Well rats!

    It’s one thing to stand by YOUR man Bill, HRC; it is something else entirely to stand IN for Obama. One reason Palin is getting so much attention is because of what the Obama’s did to you. To watch repubs standinging by THEIR woman is just surreal at this point. No way this does not diminish you and every other surrogate woman dem for Obama in my eyes.
    This whole thing on both sides is starting to feel like it was written by and for the National Enquirer.

    Jeebus this election season is making me crazy. To say nothing of straining relations with many of my friends who have drunk the koolaid. I’ve never experienced anything like this estrangement from fellow liberals in past elections.

  217. Folks, Obama is a desperate man and is running scared. His support is tanking by the day.

    Obama had a chance to bring Hillary on the ticket. And NOW he “dispatches'” her out to to recover the female voters for His Emptyness that are jumping on the McCain-Palin bandwagon?

    Hey Obama, what was wrong with Hillary the first time? Why NOW is Hillary suddenly good enough to help you when you picked Joe “Big Mouth” Biden?

    Are you nervous, Barry?

    The empty suit is WRONG FOR AMERICA and I do not trust him at all!

    John and Sarah ’08 is what I am fighting for now!

  218. Goodnight PUMAs. I don’t know why some of my comments are awaiting moderation, but maybe they’ll be posted tomorrow.

  219. The attention Governor Palin is receiving is entirely due to her merit and accomplishment. Suggesting that Obama of all people had anything to do with it is symptomatic of the kind of thinking responsible for the DNC implosion.

  220. I came here to see what a “PUMA” was … interesting place. I am one of those women who doesn’t fit anywhere … feminist but pro-life ,and, although I admire Hillary and was disgusted by the treatment she received by the media, I could not vote for her. With that context …

    Will Hillary be blamed if Obama does not win? I doubt it … but that is not the issue. She does not really have much of a choice; she must support the Democratic Party if she wants to maintain her position for the future.

    I think one thing we can all agree … it is so very painful watching women who are willing to get into the politics be trashed on a personal level in a way few men are. It is particularly painful when other women are the “trashers”

    I have never seen another political person betrayed in the same way that Hillary by her own party.

    I also have to say that every Republican I know is a little stunned that Obama did not select Hillary as VP. They recognized that it would have been “game over” and cannot understand his decision.

  221. Ana: you seem to worry too much about Hillary “being
    blamed for Obama’s loss” and her “relevance” in the future.
    Hillary will be relevant forever. She is not only in our
    present but also belongs in our history,
    in the kind of history that inspires you to keep going,
    to realize your value in our society and your right to a place
    in American life; and makes you proud to be an American.
    Senator Clinton does not need to help Obama to be
    Hillary Clinton is, will be, and will stay relevant forever
    in her own right.
    As for helping to retire the campaign debt, we’ll get back to it
    in full wing after Nov. 4th.

  222. Hillary has already released a statement about McCain-Palin that is on her website under news/pressreleases.

    She mentions the issues and then revises her comment from Denver to No Way, No How, No McCain-Palin.

    It’s brief and to the point, much stronger than the whines Obama’s team has put out, and in no way does it personally attack anyone.

    Hillary will always act with integrity, that we know from the primary and her entire career.

  223. Notice that Hillary is going to Florida. What’s funny is that Obama can’t possibly win FL. So did she agree only if it were to FL, knowing full well it wouldn’t help out his preciousness. Wonder if she’ll wear orange. 🙂

  224. Considering the source of this (NYT) information, I’m taking it with a grain of salt.

    Hillary is a feminist, Sarah said she was one too.
    I just don’t believe Hill will attack her because I’ve never, ever have seen her put down or criticize another female candidate.

    Won’t happen. Sisterhood is powerful. Even overcoming campaigning parties.

  225. I’m sorry, but I just think this is hilarious. Nothing could show up the Big Zero for the empty suit he is like having to hide behind Hillary’s skirt, um, pantsuit because big, bad Sarah was so mean to him at school. If he’s got to have a woman fight his battles for him, why not Meechelle? Or Pelosi? Hillary’s done enough for the party.

    God help him if he ever has to go face-to-face with Putin. Or Ahmadinejad.

  226. Florida, where she won like gangbusters.

    I admit, I’m having some fun this month; Hub and I both maxed out to Kerry and gave cash to the Dems. This month, I keep saying “no thanks” to the earnest folks who keep calling to tell us they assume we’ll match our ’04 numbers…wonder why I’m not off the lists by now.

    Why does Obama want a r*cist like Hillary campaigning
    for him? The disadvantage of trashing the only
    two-term Dem. president since FDR and his Senator
    wife is that your campaign has rendered them ineffective
    as your helpmates. Makes Obama look hypocritical
    and weak (as he is).


    When, oh when, are we going to start seeing his poll numbers take a dive…

  227. “Its about Integrity, stupid.”

    I don’t see how Senator Clinton could possibly support the DNC in any way after the sham nomination. If she does then she obviously supports the corrupt system when it works in her favor. She has more integrity than that.

    Side note:
    Can someone please explain to me what a “superdelegate” is? I thought we got rid of the 3/5 vote long ago. Such hypocrisy calling it democratic.

  228. If Hillary goes after Gov. Palin – to often or too hard – I think know how Palin will answer .. not the exact words .. but , something like this ..

    Well, We all remember how Hillary’s husband shamed her while in office and we stood with her as she stood with him . next ..

    .. We all watched as Hillary’s own party tore her apart and we are seeing again the pattern of the abused woman .. “returning to the abuser” . …

    I know these are not the right words , I think you will get my point though .. She will lose all the respect that she gained from independent women and the unaffiliated voters .. I hope this does not happen .

  229. “When, oh when, are we going to start seeing his poll numbers take a dive…”

    According to the CBS polls, Obama was up 8 points 48-40 at the beginning of the week. Now they have it tied 42-42. And the latest poll was taken Monday to Wednesday–before the Palin speech.

  230. Karma or divine intervention.
    How else can anyone explain the timing–of Gustav hitting the Gulf Coast thus opening up an opportunity that Bush and Cheney could bow out of the convention…of McCain’s pick of Sarah–right out of central casting–could she and her husband and family be any more beautiful? Stunningly so. And he’s a union member, she wears those high heels that remind me of Hire Heels Website—she looks like Geena Davis/Tina Fay!!!

    Karma or divine intervention.
    I hope Hillary does not allow herself to be used by the Chosen one–and suddenly becomes too busy with her own responsibilities–the state of New York, her focus on women’s issues, going to Africa with Bill for his foundation work, etc.–and let the Chosen One deal with his own Karma–or divine intervention.
    He brought it all on to himself…

  231. Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

    — Proverbs 16: 18-19

    Maybe Rev. Wright can point it out to him…

  232. suggestion for the Floridians on this blog – can you gather the troops and head to the campaign stop where Hillary will be speaking on behalf of the helpless Fraud, and hold up signs:


  233. It’s about time Hillary stands up and yells, “I’m mad as Hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!” Obama and his Democratic Party has wiped their nose on Hillary and Bill. They should do no more work for Obama. I made donations, blogged and gave my all for Hillary. I, like her other supporters, have taken the abuse from Obama supporters. But if Hillary goes after Palin, I will consider my supporter for Hillary.

    Women (e.g., Hillary) have to stop going after other women (e.g., Palin) like this; especially when they (e.g., Hillary) are defending the very men (e.g., Obama) that have been abused them in the
    first place.

  234. So with Quarterback Sarah picking apart the defense, the coaching staff is hoping that Hillary Clinton can come in and make the sack? Palin will be diving into the end zone before these guys figure out how to stop her.


    Good one!

  236. “This is a career ending move for Obama for countless reasons.”

    Really? This is just a footnote in a long campaign.

  237. the NYT has all ready ‘re worded’ .. it’s story .. here with screenshots .. plus it really slams Obama .. LoL .. ;))

    Male Presidential Candidate Uses Female Gender for Cynical Partisan Benefit


  238. I’m sorry Hillary is being forced into doing this–to attack a sister–after being treated so shoddily by the DNC and Obama’s people. No doubt they’re extorting this from her by withholding money to pay off her debt.

    Obama is a vain man and his campaign a sexist one. I’ve switched my support to McCain/Palin. The more Democrats and Independents that do so, the quicker the cancer growing in the Democratic party will be killed.

  239. “I’m sorry Hillary is being forced into doing this–to attack a sister–after being treated so shoddily by the DNC and Obama’s people. No doubt they’re extorting this from her by withholding money to pay off her debt.”

    If she can be “forced into doing this” then she doesn’t have spine necessary to lead this nation.

  240. Yeah, she’s not the Vice-Presidential nominee.

    This just confirms to me, Barack is a punk bitch.

    He just finished saying he wasn’t bothered by Palin’s “rhetoric” and that he’s suffered worse insults on the basketball court.

    After that he goes running to Hillary to take Palin out?

    What a sorry bitch they have as the head of that sorry ass party.

  241. “If she can be “forced into doing this” then she doesn’t have spine necessary to lead this nation.”

    No doubt about it. I was disappointed that Hillary didn’t get radicalized by the debacle and announce an independent ticket. This was her time and 2012 won’t be there for her–the landscape will have changed too much.

    I’m glad Palin’s now on the scene. I think she does have the spine.

  242. Ha. Are we gonna have an online support group going all day November 4th? To express our joy at having voted against The Precious? (I almost typed The Previous, which I suppose works as well…;))

  243. I hope Hillary is starting her 2012 campaign in Florida.

    Obama doesn’t deserve her.

  244. Riverdaughter, I love your views, but I’m surprised that you’d think Hillary would do anything less than noble. Hillary will do what she did during the DNC convention: talk about the issues and say nothing personal about Sara-cuda or Obama. I believe she does not respect Obama (she never said anything good about him) and I’m sure she respect Sara-cuda as the Republican person she is. Hillary knows each one of her enemies, and she’s not about to destroy her own political life for Obama. She knows that some of her supporters are Republican and independent women, and she’s too smart to talk bad about the candidate these women will be supporting. Give Hillary some credit.
    Btw, this part of your post was a gem: “No panty was left unsniffed, no ovary unexamined, no uterus unexplored. You have done the same crotch shot of Sarah Palin in 6 days that it took the Republicans 8 years and $40 million dollars to do to Hillary Clinton. And Sarah still kicked you in the junk and gave you a wedgie. And guess what , Barack. We *liked* it.”

  245. Sending Hillary out to campaign is a real deal breaker to me.

    Well, sort of, since I wasn’t planning to vote for Obama in the first place.

    But it was a deal breaker.

  246. i just ran across a new reason Senator Clinton may wish to put as much distance between herself and the soon-to-be-former-candidate Obama:

  247. “The cracked brass bells will ring/To summon back the Fire Witch/To the court of the Crimson King” 😉

  248. king crimson?!

  249. As to the ” blame” when bo loses .. I think Sarah Palin will take in great part some of that “blame” burden from Hillary … and happily so 🙂
    Sarah seems to have that attitude of a worker who has been working their butt off for years toward the slacker … excuse me you have been diong exactly WHAT???

  250. I am sorry for my Hillary but no vote for BO or Dean Brazile Pelosi Axis-send out Donna Brazile to schill for him! She can bring the “Sweeties too” home please we need Brazile we will only consider an appearance by Donna Brazile to be an Olive leaf please send her to Florida instead!


  251. Why can’t she just say “no”?

    Maybe hurricanes will keep her out of FL.

    AND, love the idea of DON’T IRON HIS SHIRT.

  252. Hiding behind the girl he tried to kick around in the primary…way to go,B0! A brave young man!
    meanwhile, they are desperately trying to find racial connotations in…community organizer?

  253. Abused women often loudly defend their abusers. The more afraid they are, the louder their accolades.

    The louder Hillary gets, the greater I will know the abuse and intimidation from the DNC to be.

    I already know they have a knife at her back. Now are they going to get out their guns?

  254. Good Morning….

    What line? I think some “chick” political mud wrestling is what this cycle needs, don’t you? O/B 08 do and that is all that should matter to true progressives.

    I really don’t care anymore what H does at this point. I liked the comment where the O campaign is advised not to overestimate the impact H could have and the “other commitments/fund raising for other democrats” BS….heh.

  255. […] very little I can add to Riverdaughter’s entry on Obama hiding behind Hillary’s […]

  256. If Hillary launches one sexist attack at Palin, I am done supporting her.

  257. Can you imagine if Sarah were black and Obama was sending out all his AA suurogates to attack her?

    This election has shown that women can be trampled on and then expected to work for the men that rode rough shod over them. The Steinem piece was priceless. I think the Dem party has become the party of mysogyny and race baiting. No, I will not be supporting ANY down ticket dems this season.

  258. I don’t think this should be Hillary’s job to do and like others here have pointed out, it IS like sending your sister out to get the girl that beat you up.

    That being said, I think that if Hillary does do it, she will do it the right way. She will probably compliment Sarah as a symbol, being a strong woman, etc, etc and perhaps even that she reminds Hill of her younger self EXCEPT choice, Miranda, issue, issue, issue….And I think she will say Democrats are better than Republicans, not that OB/Biden is better than McCain/Palin. And she won’t go after personality or anatomy nor will she diminish Sarah’s accomplishments (calling her mayor or Lt. Gov.)

    I think this is an opportunity FOR Hillary to start drawing the contrast between herself and Palin, before anyone gets the idea that Palin could actually take on Hillary in 2012.

  259. delphyne, whatever. I’ve never voted for a Republican.

    If Hillary goes after Palin the way the other women have this past week, she stops being a champion for women and becomes an Obama shill.

    THAT is how politics operates. I don’t have to keep supporting someone that behaves in a way I find objectionable. SHe is already on thin ice for me with her support of Obama, but I can live with that. Any sexism from her like the kind coming from DW Schultz or Steinem, she goes on the trash heap. If women allow what has happened to Hillary this primary and what has happened to Palin the last week to stick, kiss goobye any chance of a woman being on the ticket for a long time. Women will be political poison because people will see that it is so easy to derail their candidacies.

  260. Mawminc, I don’t think she’ll go the sexist route. I think she’ll go the issues route. If she needs material, she should read these Confluence threads from the Repub convention. We all sat here admiring Sarah but cringing at the Republican policies. It certainly looked like many of us wanted to be in the tank for Sarah but could not reconcile with the Republican point of view on things.

  261. I’m sure if she didn’t have that debt hanging over her she would tell them to go pound salt – SEND MONEY to HiLL.

  262. Oh man, just came from TL and saw this:

    “Update: No podium. He waves to the crowd. Sure looked like he raised his arm above his chest to me.”

    Jeralyn? hello? Can we have BTD back, please?

  263. I’m not saying she will. If she sticks to the tissues, fine, but I don’t want to hear anything about how she isn’t experienced enough. If Obama is experienced enough from the top spot, Palin is more than qualified for VP. Her resume is more impressive than Obama’s.

  264. It will be interesting to see who all these female surrogates are. I think the first wave are already out there on the blogosphere. Maybe Jeralyn of TalkLeft was recruited at Ariana’s spa. Why doesn’t the Obama camp take on John McCain? I thought that was the opponent.

  265. delphyne, protect? I don’t think she needs my protection, but Hillary will need my support and others like me if she wants to run in 2012, and I’m watching what is happening. One by one Dem women are trotting out to launch sexist attacks at Palin. If Hillary joins in, she’ll lose a lot of respect she earned during the primary.

  266. I’m writing this partly as a message to Hillary. We now know for certain that she reads this blog or is at least kept informed of it. “The sisterhood of the travelling pantsuit”?

  267. Great post, RD.

    Why does anyone think HIllary would attack on sexist or personal grounds?

  268. I liked this from Regency, way above:

    Advisers to Mrs. Clinton, who has been on vacation this week, said that she stands ready to help the Obama-Biden ticket, but they urged not to overestimate the effect she could have, noting that she had other commitments this fall, like campaigning and raising money for Senate candidates.

  269. (The other Delphyne)

    Ha! I have to use that name on several other sites….how funny! Nice to meet you!

  270. mawminc: I am pretty pissed myself that NOW and Steinem went out against Palin. I think they should be right here with us—between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, we don’t give up a woman’s right to choose. On the other hand, when woman with the kind of strength and character they’ve been touting emerges, you don’t pummel her. I think NOW et al should not endorse anyone because neither is exactly what they want and neither is entirely what they don’t want.

  271. Speaking of drawing the line, we seem to have a lot of Republican trolls on this site recently–mackaye, IronMan and others. We are supposed to be working to re-claim the Democratic party. Personally, I have a real problem with all the posters who end their comments with McCain-Palin ’08. Time for a crackdown maybe?

  272. Brilliant post, as usual, Riverdaughter. You go girl!

  273. Author, Author!! I too am sick of Obama using HIllary to do his dirty work. Author is correct – Where are the rest of the big mouth surrogates who preach his greatness. You named them, but here’s another. Send the lady who thinks O is a man like her father, Carolyn Kennedy. Afterall, if O wins, every Kennedy family member will be on his cabinet. LEAVE HILLARY ALONE!!

  274. Plural, I liked that quote too.

    No I do not think H will go that route…instead she will attack the Rs on issues, along the lines of her response to Mc’s speech (cut and pasted, shamelessly from TM):

    The two party conventions showcased vastly different directions for our country. Senator Obama and Senator Biden offered the new ideas and positive change America needs and deserves after eight years of failed Republican leadership. Senator McCain and Governor Palin did not.

    “After listening to all of the speeches this week, I heard nothing that suggests the Republicans are ready to fix the economy for middle class families, provide quality affordable health care for all Americans, guarantee equal pay for equal work for women, restore our nation’s leadership in a complex world or tackle the myriad of challenges our country faces.

    “So, to slightly amend my comments from Denver: NO WAY, NO HOW, NO McCAIN-PALIN.”

  275. mawmine states that more than one dem woman is coming out to launch attacks against Palin. Where were those women when Hillary was attacked? Why did they not come and line up behind her and address the media in the same manner the Republican women did on National TV the other day? It appears to me that democratic sexist men are not the only ones who need to change; it’s the women in the democratic party who let Senator Clinton alone out there. Now they come out against Palin because the party wants them to? Unbelievable.

  276. grayslady, on September 5th, 2008 at 8:27 am Said:
    Speaking of drawing the line, we seem to have a lot of Republican trolls on this site recently–mackaye, IronMan and others. We are supposed to be working to re-claim the Democratic party. Personally, I have a real problem with all the posters who end their comments with McCain-Palin ‘08. Time for a crackdown maybe?


    Do you support Barack Obama or Democracy?

    I think you should get your facts straight before you try and shoot from the hip concerning me, because you do not have the facts.

    I’m NOT a Republican troll. I’m a Democrat!

    I was for Hillary Clinton ALL the way and I still am! But I will NEVER support Obama EVER! People just need to get over it! There are many of us (both women and men) that supported Hillary and wil not fight for McCain-Palin! Country First!

    And BTW, the only crackdown necessary is the one we are going to put on Obama in November with our vote to kick he and his undemocratic gang to he curb and out of the Democratic Party!!

    John and Sarah ’08
    McCain-Palin ’08

    You. Can’t. Change. My. Mind.

    So. Please. Get. Over. It.

  277. There’s this also (from the NYTimes piece RD links):

    Still, Mo Elleithee, a Clinton spokesman, said he believed she could make a difference with some voters who feel lost in the current economy and who want to see a federal role enacting universal health insurance.

    “Anyone who was inclined to support Hillary Clinton typically did so because of her focus on middle-class, bread-and-butter issues,” Mr. Elleithee said. “Her message for Barack Obama on those issues could certainly help the Democratic ticket at the ballot box.”

    Doesn’t sound like personal attacks to me. It sounds like support for Hillary’s issues and the Democratic message.

  278. Hillary will talk to the issues if she goes out for Obama at all. We have local races to work on and Hillary is helping. Of course she’s booked solid from now to November. She actually works! And she’s is a Senator who shows up in the Senate and votes. (Among other things.)

    Plus, she’s a deal maker. If she goes out and does a wonky speech about the issues, it will only be because she got a deal in return. (Not something for her something to advance her policies.)

    She is way to smart, too classy, and too principled to attack Palin personally.

    Trust me on this.

  279. delphyne, fuck off. I am a man, but that doesn’t preclude me from being a feminist, you sexist pig.

    Have you watched the icons of “radical feminism” like Steinem make sexist attacks on another woman? Great feminist leaders, huh?

    And guess what, politicians are supposed to listen to me, and you, and her, and him, and them and us. That is the way it works.

  280. Oh, and if Hillary does go to Florida, she’ll do her speach in an orange grove.

  281. Correction:

    There are many of us (both women and men) that supported Hillary and WILL fight for McCain-Palin! Country First!

  282. My bet would be that Hillary goes after Palin on two fronts: her lack of experience, and her record in Alaska, which she has not been truthful about (for instance on that “bridge to nowhere”). You obviously won’t be seeing Hillary engaging in “sexist” attacks, and she won’t bring up any family issues–why would she?

    It isn’t sexist to discuss the issues that face us as we decide who gets our vote. Despite all the noise from the tabloids and the controversies pretty much invented by the McCain camp, Palin has had pretty much a free ride since she was named. The press hasn’t examined her claims at all. Just wait.

    (My first question would be, how do you take a town of 5,000 with no debt and saddle it with 22 million dollars in debt? As a small-town guy myself, I find that story fascinating. Good government indeed!)

  283. What Arabella said.

  284. The Obamabots are on the run and are trolling around on many sites. Don’t feed them any bait. Just tell them to get over it. 🙂

  285. Michael57, it is sexist to attack Palin for lack of experience all the while you are shilling for the empty suit whose resume is weaker than hers.

  286. Delphyne, I’m not sure I like your tone. You know throwing around charges of sexism at your allies is awfully similar to how Obama charged fellow democrats with racism. I think you need to cool it.

  287. New Post
    New Post

    New Post

    New Post

    New Post


  288. IronMan, I don’t know where you came from, but some of us who are old-timers on this site are definitely going to slap you down if you keep this up. Maybe you didn’t get the message–we own our votes. The owner of this site is not supporting McCain, and I doubt that you will remain here long if you keep this up.

  289. I predict that Hill will go out an champion Democratic values, and say Palin and McCain do no share them. I predict she will not attack experience or character or anything personal at all.

    BTW – to all the bots who keep screaming PANDER AND INSULT! IDENTITY POLITICS! at everyone who is pleased that JMac picked a woman, STFU.

    Your guy is indulging in the ultimate pander and insult. Refusing to put a woman on his ticket, then sending out a brigade of wimminz to tell us all to get on the love train? THAT is one big insulting PANDER. That is an even worse form of identity politics that does now even REWARD us, only USE us.

  290. RD – thank you for this awesome post!

    Republican Woman – thanks for your perspective. Seriously.

  291. Lou Dobbs and a MAJOR radio host in PA have endorsed McCain-palin.

    Steve Corbett, a rabid Hillary Clinton stalwart who packs clout as the biggest talk-show host in northeastern Pennsylvania, has abandoned the Democratic Party to shout across the airwaves: “Nobama! Nobiden! Nobull!”

    Corbett, who led what he called “Operation Turndown” in a foiled attempt to deny the nomination to the “unqualified” Barack Obama and award it to Clinton, recently told his radio audience that the way his heroine was “disrespected” at the Democratic convention “put me over the edge.”

    “Like Hillary Clinton, I’ve decided to move on. It’s time for a change,” he told listeners on the popular AM station, WILK.

    And Corbett is still fuming — especially at the women he contends betrayed Hillary.

    “A whole new generation of young women who have no sense of the sacrifice that took place before they were out of diapers have signed on to the anti-Hillary assault as well. Sadly, even some of them sneer at the sexist portrayals of this woman who sacrificed for them and did her best despite harsh odds to bring equity to the workplace, the home and the country.”

    The disaffection of Corbett, a well-known voice in the vital Keystone State, is not especially good news to the Obama camp. Vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden, the senator from Delaware, has gone out of his way to emphasize that he is the offspring of simple working stiffs from the hardscrabble town of Scranton.

    But Corbett delights in letting the Obama crowd know that rhetoric in a jammed stadium in Denver hasn’t turned the collective heads of the white working class.

    “Voters will come from hunting camps, church picnics, NASCAR races and country music concerts to turn down Obama,” Corbett jeers.

    Most recently, the volatile radio personality has been lambasting Obama for disrespecting another personal hero: war hero John McCain.

    “It was bad enough that Obama assaulted Hillary Clinton’s character during the primary elections,” Corbett laments. “Now he attacks the fighting spirit of a Navy hero who survived his plane getting shot down over enemy territory, torture and the deep psychological wounds of captivity.”

    Corbett follows up with an ominous warning: “Pennsylvania, particularly the coal region, boasts too many veterans and families of active-duty military personnel to let Obama snipe at duty and honor from his ivory tower. Blue-collar voters don’t take kindly to serial hecklers who’ve never been to boot camp.”


    And the boot-camp dig is just the start of Corbett’s colorful outrage.

    “A dozen packed stadium rallies won’t convince the voting bloc Obama needs to win that he is anything other than a spoiled, childish senator who wants more than anything to be crowned king,” he says scornfully.

    So is Corbett’s vitriol catching on? When he announced that he was bailing from the Democratic Party, his phone lines were jammed immediately with supportive callers.

    Now that the long-time Democrat is cheering for McCain, he’s watching out for the Republican’s female running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

    Corbett’s latest warning is typically blunt: “Wild Bill Obama doesn’t want to taunt this woman. Like McCain, Palin is nobody to mess with. She carries a gun, rides a motorcycle, and battles big oil and corrupt politicians of both parties in some real tough terrain.”

    John and Sarah ’08 !!

  292. It makes me cringe to see Hillary stump for Obama. But having said that, have we ever seen Hillary attack someone personally? Have we ever seen Hillary act mean or disrespectful to an opponent as a person as opposed to his policies or words or experience? Have we ever, I mean e v e r, seen Hillary engage in the kind of behavior that Obama (the shoulder brush off) or Palin (mean personal attacks) engage in?

    What makes us think that Hillary will attack Palin in an inappropriate manner? The Clintons know how to play this game. Even when she is being outright “bad” Clinton will attack the policies and the claims. I don’t for a minute think that Hill will be anything but classy.

    But I do wish she would not stump for him. And I do wish she would not campaign or fundraise for the “downticket democrats” who did not stand by her during the primaries.

  293. I noticed in comments on another blog yesterday the plaintive whine from Obamabots “Where’s Hillary?”

    Funny, I distinctly remember them saying awhile back that Obama didn’t “need” her. Nor did he need her supporters.

  294. The NYTimes article linked in the post says that they will not attack Palin on experience.

  295. Hillary stomping for Obama only makes people angry at Obama and the DNC for their abuse of her. Many of us see this move as degrading and typical male abusive behavior toward senator Clinton, of which so many women are familiar. I think their are a lot of progressive women who are becoming more disaffected everytime Clinton stumps for Obama. It just reminds us of the sexism and blatent hypocracy the DNC and dems dished out this election season. The democrats have lost their female base, just watch. Actions speak louder than words and women know that we as well as Clinton have been disrespected by Obama and the party.

  296. Obots are funny people. Even though I was not a supporter of Obama I watched most of the speeches at the Dem convention especially HRC, BC, JB, & O. I thought I was being a good sport and assuming my wife would reciprocate (avid Obama supporter) and watch the Rep convention. Right – she either changed the channel or went to the computer to blog with other obots – about the speech that she did not watch to come back and tell me “I can’t belive they said this …” (no context at all)This is really a cult – where listening to the other side POV is considered offensive. Scares me. God help us.

  297. I guess I need to start my own blog.

    The Dems are a lost cause. I’m not even going to pretend that I’m going to support them.

  298. “And Sarah still kicked you in the junk and gave you a wedgie. And guess what , Barack. We *liked* it.

    Riverdaughter, you have such a way with words!

    I can’t imagine that Hillary will go out there with a straight face and claim that we should vote for Obama because Palin is inexperienced. She will probably very graciously express her pleasure at seeing a woman on a ticket, then she will take the “policy” tack that she has taken all along with McCain. She’ll talk about education, healthcare, etc. I have a feeling she will not touch the choice issue because she knows that we know that is one of Obama’s weak spots.

  299. If Hillary becomes part of the attack machine that blocked her from her rightful place, I will not be able to support her.

    I am amazed how, at times, women are women’s worst enemy.

  300. delphyne, the only person who seems to be barking out orders around here is you. And I don’t think he told you to fuck off because you are a woman, he did it becuase you’re an asshole. Your commentary makes me feel like the obamabots accusing me of racism, and you need to cut it out. Sorry if you don’t like a man like me telling you what to do, but get over yourself. I don’t give a shit what you’ve got between your legs. Don’t hide behind your victimhood to lash out at your allies. I won’t ask again.

  301. GCH: Was looking for you to let you know yesterday at my second job, my manager (an O supporter) thought it was real cute to hand me an apron. He said it was for all the women who supported women.

  302. delphyne: With all due respect, I do not for a minute think that Mawm was attempting to tell Hillary what to do. I think he was merely expressing his outrage that after the brutality that was displayed against her during the primary season she does not owe Obama anymore allegiance, party be damned.

    This is the same Mawm who purchased van and went all the way to Denver to make his voice heard. The same guy who went to Unity, NH to make his voice heard. The same Mawm who has continually donated funds when asked to help reduce the debt on this blog. Mawm was a strong believer in Hillary.

    What is particularly troubling is that she may very well go out there and trash Palin on behalf of Obama. This would be most disconcerting for many of us. Mawm, and I am only speaking from my perch, would be as affected by this transgression as any one of us.

    There are times when disillusion breaks through and this would be one of them. A strong supporter and a true believer would have every right to say that the line has been transgressed if this were to happen. So no, Mawm is not telling Hillary what to do only admitting that he has limits.

  303. kim, well isn’t that sweet. asshole…

  304. NO! Mawm, don’t leave, we love you and Gary. There are a lot of women out there who are extremely touchy these days. They don’t know you like we do. They don’t know that you and Gary are some of our greatest allies in this fight against sexism and we cannot lose you two.

  305. Delphyne, some men do the things you are saying, but not all and we cannot alienate the men who are willing to stand up for us and say NO.

  306. Gary and Mawm are two of those men and we have to applaud their courage and strength.


  307. I am not telling Hillary what to do. Sounds like Obama is though, and looks like she is going along with it. I am simply saying that if she does attack Palin in a sexist way which the parade of Obama women have done this week, she will lose my support.

    How is that possibly sexist in your world?

    However, questioning my support of feminism because I am a man is sexist.

  308. Hillary is for America first! She told all of us to keep going. We know what that means!


  309. Mawn: You need never have to explain your position to any of us. We know you. Enough said.

  310. Hey Pat, its Friday, whatcha doing?

  311. Kim: It’s Friday so you know what that means. I am going to put up some Fall decorations so I can be surrounded with “orange”.

  312. I”m in Florida, Cape Canaveral I’m game let’s get together just let me know when

  313. How badly does 0bama want Hillary to campaign? Enough to pay off any outstanding debt? Oh, I’d get the $ up front before heading anywhere!

  314. This WaPo article says that Hillary’s FL trip was scheduled way before Palin was selected as VP.

    The effort to ensure that McCain will not make inroads with women got a boost from Clinton, who will make stops in central Florida on Monday on Obama’s behalf. But the trip is not, according to aides in both camps, designed as a response to Palin. An Obama aide said the trip has been “in the works for weeks,” and two Clinton advisers said she will continue to focus on issues, such as the economy, not Palin. If she does make remarks that touch on Palin, they will be designed to state a larger point about McCain, not to burrow down into a debate over sexism, an aide said.

  315. Thanks Pat. I think our nerves are really raw.

    delphyne, sorry for saying fuck off.

  316. Obama is losing support of blue collar and women voters by the day. He is desperate.

    Over the last few days, Obama’s campaign and the nut job Obamabots are obsessed with Palin and attacking her personally. Why? They know she is a winner and can get things done! Like Hillary, Palin is a threat to the good ol’ boy Obama club of the Democratic Party!

    Obama has an obsession and it is wrong for America!

  317. (Head Spinning)

    Pie Fights before I’ve had my coffee could have unexpected consequences.

    [scrubbing the thread]

  318. votermom, thanks for that reality check 🙂

  319. lower-case delphyne is gone.

  320. “Obama has been out on the trail for 18 months”

    The idea that applying for the job counts as experience for the job is absurd and not something anyone but an Obama supporter would believe.

  321. Well my own eyes tell me that she has been a mayor and a govenor, and that he has been a state senator and a US senator except he hasn’t done anything as a senator since he has been running for President since he was elected.
    Contrary to what Obama wants you to believe, running for president does not qualify you to be president, and I would rather go with someone who has actually accomplish something over someone who has “rhetorical mastery” over the issues.

  322. nodding I agree, Mawm.

    For longer than Obama has been running for President, Palin has been running Alaska. And we’re supposed to think that HIS experience these last 2 years is more valuable? (sneering at the thought) Only an Obot could think that.

  323. If anyone in the MA area wants to help retire HRCs presidential campaign debt she’s having a fundraiser just for this purpose on 9/19 @ 6:30 in the Liberty Hotel on Charles STreet, Boston. The minimum donation is $250.00 😦

    Also, I’ve done some research. In MA you can write in Hillary as long as she’s registered with the elections division for this purpose. Today @ 5 is the cutoff for candidates to submit their paperwork to be included on the ballot as a write in. I should know on Tuesday if she’s done this.

  324. Wow, you deleted my comment, and then you attacked me personally. Stay classy, guys. And as for that executive experience in Alaska, stay tuned.

  325. The DNC made certain Hillary did not get the presidential nomination. They made certain she did not get the vice-presidential nomination. Now they are insisting she take responsibility for getting Obama elected, and she is doing as she is told. Someone should tell Hillary that bad behavior is NOT rewarded.

  326. I heard this on Fox this morning and my first thought was….. THE NERVE of these people! She needs to tell them all to go to hell. They dug this hole, let them bury themselves in it.

    Hillary should not be forced (blackmailed with paying off her debt) to dig that SOB out of this mess. Let him go down in flames.

    NOTHING she says or does will ever change my mind. I will never vote for BO. I DETEST HIM and his supporters.

  327. Michael, how exactly were you attacked personally?

  328. Oh no Mawm, I just posted on the other thread DK’s list of BO’s “supposed” accomplishments. I don’t have time to look them up.

  329. Oh and I am being sarcastic with the “accomplishments”.

  330. Michael57: why are you here? If you are here to tear down Palin and shill for Obama, your comments will be irrelevant. You have plenty of other sites where you can do that, and whether or not we support Palin’s policies, we are the LAST PEOPLE who want to participate in trashing another woman. You come into RD’s house, our refuge, and expect a warm welcome with these comments? What is the matter with these people?

    As for Hillary: I don’t know why everyone is jumping to judge her. She is fighting for her own agenda, just as she always has. She throws BO’s name in here and there, but it’s not fooling many–unless they want to be fooled. I thought she has did it brilliantly during her suspension speech and at the Convention. She will speak to the issues and the direction for the country. How could you think she would disrespect another woman? C’mon it’s THE “woman’s rights are human rights” champion!

  331. As another poster put it, the obamabushbots have said from day one,

    “So, we don’t need Hillary, and her supporters? Don’t let the door hit you in your ass”.

    F*ck obama.

  332. Seems to me that Hillary going out on the campaign trail only reminds people that she should have been the candidate, which certainly doesn’t help Obama.

    I agree with someone way up there who said that she’ll handle this competently, criticizing the republican platform and ticket without resorting to nasty little barbs.

    She’s an adult and a darn good politician. We all know her allegiance is to democratic party ideals, and I have to respect her for her loyalty.

    They tried to get rid of the Clintons. Then they had to eat crow, because they realized just how much they need them. I love it.

  333. Mawm, I’m so sorry that someone relatively new to this blog had the bad judgement to attack you without bothering to find out who and what you are.

    I too am a feminist and have been for many, too many years. And I too am wondering just how long Senator Clinton is going to acquiesce and prop up the man that trashed her and her husband. I wish she wouldn’t do it any more.

    Being a “good” Democrat doesn’t kinda disgusts me these days to tell the truth.

    That said I hope that you and GCH will stay and that you will continue to say what you think. If others don’t like it, there are a lot of other blogs where they might feel more comfortable than here where you two are known and loved.

  334. If Hillary really goes out there on behalf of Obama and attacks Sarah Palin, this will only wipe out whatever residual respect I have for her. It’s bad enough that she gave Obama a ringing endorsement.

    If anything, Sarah Palin is an even better feminist role model than Hillary Clinton. Palin never subordinated her ambitions or career to any man’s, and her political accomplishments are entirely due to her own considerable talents. If Hillary wants to insert herself into this fight, she can forget about my support in 2012 or 2016.

  335. If Hillary really goes out there on behalf of Obama and attacks Sarah Palin, this will only wipe out whatever residual respect I have for her. It’s bad enough that she gave Obama a ringing endorsement.

    If anything, Sarah Palin is an even better feminist role model than Hillary Clinton. Palin never subordinated her ambitions or career to any man’s, and her political accomplishments are entirely due to her own considerable talents. If Hillary wants to insert herself into this fight, she can forget about my support in 2012 or 2016.

    Go PUMA! Go Barracuda!

  336. And I really love this phrasing: Sen. Obama will increasingly LEAN on Democratic women. Yeah, because without them he’ll fall and never get up… Leaning on women is all he’s ever done, other than kissing ass of crooked Chicago politicians and the DNC establishment.

  337. Mike, I do not agree with saying that Clinton’s accomplishments are not her own or that she subordinated her own ambitions for Bill.

  338. I see the Clintons as a political couple. Both with unique talents.

  339. #
    Mike J., on September 5th, 2008 at 10:31 am Said:

    If anything, Sarah Palin is an even better feminist role model than Hillary Clinton. Palin never subordinated her ambitions or career to any man’s, and her political accomplishments are entirely due to her own considerable talents. If Hillary wants to insert herself into this fight, she can forget about my support in 2012 or 2016.

    What the hell do you mean by saying that Hillary’s accomplishments aren’t due to her own talents? So according to you everything she has accomplished in the Senate has been done by Bill Clinton. I guess soon or later you have to show your true colors. I am betting that you were one of those “anybody but Hillary” type but ended up supporting her after your candidate quit because you didn’t have a choice. So all her work for the people of Arkansas wasn’t due to her own talents but someone elses. It is unbelievable that Hillary is being trashed before she has done anything. You are acting like the media and Obots that did this to her during the primary or the republicans that thought they could predict her every move.

  340. Mike J , with all due respect, what are you saying? You’ll completely abandon Hillary if she stumps for Obama further? Please reconsider. I understand your frustration but give the lady a break….. She’s in an IMPOSSIBLE situation. She’s damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t!!

    Either way she’s going to be the one getting blamed for Obama’s loss, though Obama and the DNC are the ones soley responsible for blowing this election….and its a damned shame.

    And I like Palin, but she is no Hillary.

  341. I don’t look forward to Hillary going after Sarah. I will withhold judgment until I see what she actually says. But you are right. It is time for Hillary to stop being a doormat. And it will be difficult to see Hillary attacking another woman when she was attacked so viciously by her own party. It isn’t a day I look forward to.

  342. Don’t you all remember they said Hillary didn’t wear skirts…so why try and hide behind her skirt…too transparent (he can’t defend himself).

    I say let Michelle defend him like she did here with Hillary:

    Michelle Obama takes a shot at Hillary Clinton

    or Oprah like she praised him here:

    Oprah endorses Barack on Larry King

    or the Kennedys

    Ted Kennedy Endorses Barack Obama

    None of these people spoke out against the misogyny leveled at Hillary Clinton by the media and his campaign. NONE OF THEM! So, they should go out and stomp for him. HILLARY SHOULD WORK ON THE DOWN TICKET DEMS, those that are in trouble and shouldn’t be made to campaign for the TOP TICKET THAT DENIED HER A ROLL CALL VOTE!

    I still remember what was done to her and in a way to all women to:

    Hillary : We’ve Come a Long Way, Baby! (Read “More Info”)

  343. RD,

    Wow, what a strong post. I loved the way you made your points and I heartily agree.

    I really find it difficult to watch Hillary tell me I am wrong about Obama, that he supports issues that I care about and that he should be POTUS for that reason. I know that I am not wrong, the tactics at caucuses and the the convention alone make him unworthy of public service. For her to tell me otherwise undermines her credibility with me. I hate that she feels that she needs to do this. Obviously, she sees no other way… but still, what I see is Obama continuing to hurt Hillary.

    It just makes me angrier at the DNC and the power brokers int he party.

    The bump she gives him is worth millions, Pony UP Obama.

  344. In response to the question, I don’t really quite know why I’m here. I find your community interesting. There are a lot of what I think are smart comments mixed in with breathtakingly uninformed comments. … it’s an interesting culture. There are obviously a number of republican trolls in disguise, and then a lot of Obama supporters coming in to give you advice, with predictable results. It’s just an entertaining place to visit, that’s all.

    The consternation over Hillary going out to campaign for Obama is weird, to my mind. She is a Democrat, she has endorsed Obama, she will campaign for him, make the case for the Dem ticket, and explain why the other team is no good. It doesn’t seem like such a mystery to me….

  345. IronMan in an 8:52 am post pasted a story about talkshow host Corbett that appeared in a rightwing online journal. It is true that Corbett changed his registration from Democrat to non-affiliated, but the article attributes some quotes to him that he did not make. Some of these quotes include words that Corbett never uses. IronMan should have told us the source of this pasted information.

  346. scranton, thanks for pointing that out.

  347. grayslady, on September 5th, 2008 at 8:51 am Said:
    IronMan, I don’t know where you came from, but some of us who are old-timers on this site are definitely going to slap you down if you keep this up. Maybe you didn’t get the message–we own our votes. The owner of this site is not supporting McCain, and I doubt that you will remain here long if you keep this up.


    Please don’t insult me and my support for Hillary Clinton by asking me to not supprt John and Sarah nor point out the total deficiney of Barack Obama and how he is wrong for America. If you want to support Obama or any other candidate, you are free to do so. If the owner of this site has a problem with me or anyone typing John and Sarah ’08 in the comments, I will be very surprised to say the elast.

    BTW, if you have the time and want to know more about me and my thoughts on this race, and the undemocratic race for the Democratic Nomination, feel free to do a search of my name (IronMan) in the comments section over at the TM site.

    I fought for Bill Clinton in ’92 and ’96, and for Hillary in 2000! I’m a Democrat and I, just liek you, own my vote!

    And yes, thank God we do OWN our votes! That is just one of many reasons why I am choosing to not sell out to Obama and am fighting for John and Sarah.

    No Way!
    No How!

  348. That man’s children will directly benefit
    from minority programs that Bill himself put in place.

    molly, that man’s children won’t need to. That man’s children are LOUSY WITH MONEY and need no help at all. They don’t need a stick of help from minority programs whatsoever. Muhc like Clarence Thomas always said about himself. They climb the AffAc ladder high enough to get a foothold, then snip it off beneath their feet.

    Everyone else, do not blame Hillary. She will not attack Palin personally, we know that. She’ll do the same thing seh did to McCain: “I admire him, but I disagree with his policies.” She’ll stick to issues, she always does.

    Also remember — what was I complaining about yesterday? That the Democrats can’t tell who wears what uniform? That they attack their own and defend the other guys?

    Hillary is not behaving that way. As much as this feels like the little woman crawling back to her abuser, it’s not and we know it. It’s happening under duress, she will stick to issues as usual, and she is behaving as a member of her party. She’s acting how I’ve said I wished all of those fools would act: she knows who’s wearing what uniform.

    Me, though? Hell, I’m a voter. I owe no one any loyalty at all.

  349. scranton, on September 5th, 2008 at 12:23 pm Said:
    IronMan in an 8:52 am post pasted a story about talkshow host Corbett that appeared in a rightwing online journal. It is true that Corbett changed his registration from Democrat to non-affiliated, but the article attributes some quotes to him that he did not make. Some of these quotes include words that Corbett never uses. IronMan should have told us the source of this pasted information.

    I didn’t have a link, but have since researched it and found the same article on about 3 or 4 sites, going back to newsmax.com

    I am curious, which specific quote(s) are not accurate? Please let us know.
    It is my understanding those comments were said on the air and quoted as such. Do you know for a fact that he did not say such things on the air? If so, please let us know.

    i think the fact that a major radio person in PA with a large listening audience supported Hillary Clinton and is now supporting McCain-Palin IS news, don’t you think? That’s why I posted it for other people to look at and check out.

    John and Sarah ’08
    Hillary ’12

  350. look don’t worry about the 3:00 am phone calls to barry in the wh. he has the number forwarded to hillary. case closed! now that would be so funny on snl.

  351. Why is Hillary campaining for Obama? She has done more than enough. Can’t he do some of the lifting himself?

    Who is the strongest candidate for POTUS?


    Not Obama!

  352. Did you hear about the personal attack from MO against Palin about being a mom and having children? Real classy! NOT!

  353. Finally i see republic post in wordpress … lol

  354. You are such a great writer. Some of what you write could work in stand-up.

  355. bostonboomer said:”Next I expect Obama to ask Hillary to represent him in the debates with McCain.”

    Nah, Senator Biden will mysteriously fall ill just before the VP debate and Senator Clinton will be asked to “substitute”


  356. If by some fluke Obama were to get the presidency, I suspect he would “call in sick” a lot! Or constantly take vacations like George W. My God……he’s already taken 2 vacations this year while Hillary went to bat for him. Disgraceful.

  357. I am an Independent who wouldn’t have minded having either Clinton or Obama for President.
    Unlike many of Hillary supporter’s I’m not quite dumb enough to be snowed by the McCain’s choice of Sarah
    Palin as VP. You have to be in my view pretty stupid to fall for the switch and bait act McCain used in picking her. Have any of you Hillary supporters out there, figured out that she only there to get your vote??
    Where there not more qualifed women and men who McCain could have picked?? McCain has always had a thing for beautiful women. It didn’t if they had a brain.
    In the wife #1 he dump her as soon as she stop looking as hot as she did before the car accident she was in, before his release from the POW camp. He started to have affairs, met Cindy, divorced his wife and a month later married Cindy, who we all know had money. Gee, and he talks about honor and respect??? What is it you don’t see, are you so blind over Hillary’s loss that you can’t see the forest for the trees ?? Do you not know Obama and Hillary Clinton had basically the platform. Do you really think under McCain universal healthcare, the economy, job loss, etc. are a priority ?? What are you not listening to John McCain who has said that he don’t no much about the economy and that the US could be in Iraq for 100 years??? The next president will all likely pick 3 new Supreme Court Justices, what do you think will happen to Roe v. Wade??? Many of you I think hate the fact that Obama who not white beat Hillary who is white. You are still reeling from it. To me it would have not made a difference, I as I said preferred either one to McCain, who will not doubt take the US into another war with it seems Iran, because that is what Joe Liberman wants, as well as others. This is not rocket science. You don’t considered that McCain has reall y voted with Bush not 90 but 91 percent of the time. Mark my words if McCain becomes President this country will go to another needless war, the middle-class and poor will be the one suppling their family members fight, And the wealthy will get a big laugh on the American voters stupidity . When there are more soliders coffins coming home than ever, maybe then a lightbulb will go off in your heads.
    And by the way so what if Mcain have sons in Iraq?? Don’t you know McCain’s sons are in the GreenZone and safe and most likely will never see any combat. As for Palin son Track, think he’ll see combat??? Not on your life. He’ll sit in the Green Zone too safe and sound. A parents rank will have it’s privilege for them.

  358. Obama wants Hillary to be his female surrogate now. Why doesn’t he send his partner in crime, MO, out on the campaign?

    Uh-Oh, MO thinks America is a mean country? guess that kind o fthinking won’t go over well with most Americans.

    Well. Well. Well.

    Sure looks like Obama is in a bit of a Bind with Biden as his VP.

    Obama: A man with NO executive experience, and not enough balls to campaign on his own. he wants (and expects) the women in America to just roll over and do the work for him.


  359. Have any of you
    Hillary supporters out there, figured out that she only there to
    get your vote??

    Um, I think we have, yeah. Why weren’t the Dems working that hard to get my vote?

    Oh, I get it. Their complete apathy while a 35-year public servant was ripped to shreds for her body, face, hair, cackle, and husband, threatened with death, and made a mockery of was a sign of respect for women! Thanks for setting me straight on that one.

  360. Zogby Poll: Equilibrium in the POTUS Race!

    McCain pick of AK Gov. Palin neutralizes historic Obama speech, stunts the Dems’ convention bounce

    September 5, 2008

    UTICA, New York – Republican John McCain’s surprise announcement Friday of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate – some 16 hours after Democrat Barack Obama’s historic speech accepting his party’s presidential nomination – has possibly stunted any Obama convention bump, the latest Zogby Interactive flash poll of the race shows.

    The latest nationwide survey, begun Friday afternoon after the McCain announcement of Palin as running mate and completed mid-afternoon today, shows McCain/Palin at 47%, compared to 45% support for Obama/Biden.

    There is a huge hole in the Obamalamadingdong bouncy ball and it is getting bigger by the day! I love it!

  361. Because of this site, the media that trashed Sarah Palin and her family have had their comeuppance
    Now we should turn our attention to the “liberal” (far left trash to me) women in the culture who are doing everything they can to dump on Palin.

    ANNETTE BENNING TRASHES PALIN IN AN INTERVIEW GIVEN IN ANOTHER COUNTRY. TRAGICALLY SHE WAS TRYING TO PROMOTE HER NEXT FILM CALLED “THE WOMEN” Can you beat that? I for one will not be beating a path to the theater to catch that flick.
    GLORIA STEINEM (THAT OLD TRAMP) REACHES OUT TO TRASH SARAH PALIN. Really I thought she was dead. Dead and married. Reaching out from the bottom of the barrel the old fool rises again to take on the vestiges of a cadaver. 2 MILLIOM WOMEN GLORIA.!!!!! You getting any of this?

    What has happened to these women? Will they ONLY support Liberal women??? Don’t know about you but that Oprah is sure off my TV list.

  362. I wish to respond to what Diane wrote about “naive” PUMA’s blindly falling for the “old bait and switch”.

    Nothing could be further from the truth Diane, if you had half a brain. We PUMA’s acknowledge that McCain picked Palin for political expedience and to entice PUMA’s over to vote for him in the General Election. That is what an intelligent, savy politician does Diane; he/she recognizes which segment of the electorate to tap into in order to broaden his/her appeal and thereby ensure victory. As per usual, the Democratic leadership decided to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Democratic leader’s told you that the popular vote wasn’t important when Obama wasn’t going to garner the popular vote. Democratic leader’s like Donna Brazile said that Hillary supporters, blue collar workers, hispanics, and members of the LGBT community were no longer needed; that they were going to carve out a new voting block.

    Those are the actions of stupid, arrogant politicians. Call it pandering if you will, but at the end of the day it is good business. Obama could not even offer Hillary the respect of vetting her for the VP spot! He told Hillary supporters to “get over it” but now he is going to have Hillary play the role of the pitbull. That isn’t her job, that would be his VP pick Biden.

    Diane, no one here has any illusions as to what McCain’s motivations were. However, Obama and the Democratic leadership suffer from the illusion that they are going to pull out a different GE result then they did in 1972.

    I for one, as a 38 year old lesbian with an MA in international relations, and a life-long member of the Democratic Party, have tendered in my membership and will vote for McCain in the fall. I will not reward the kind of behavior I have castigated the Republican’s for. I will not sit by why we throw away our core principles and claim that it is for a “higher cause”; like electing an inexperienced, arrogant, ass like the one that currently inhabits 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

  363. Ram it, Diane. You don’t give a damn for coffins fom Iraq, and you know it — or else you’d have the sense to know that Obama’s lying through his teeny little fangs about ending the war. You know, when people bullshit you to your face, yuo’re ALLOWED TO CALL THEM ON IT.

    You don’t want to, though. Because it’s not about getting “kids” home from Iraq for you. It’s about showing off what a wonderful person you are forhaving VOTED for the guy who lied to your face and said he’d bring them home! Sure, the war will continue and he’ll start shit with Iran as well, but at least you can crow with your liberal friends about how WONDERFUL you were for having worn the right button. You remind me of those people who drive Hummers and use swirl light bulbs. It’s revolting.

    LISTEN TO WHAT WAS SAID DURING THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION, dumbass. Listen — pull your head out and actually listen for once and try to detect what’s realyl being said instead of being so damned gullible. What were Giuliani, Palin, and McCain ALL saying about Iraq? “The surge has worked — victory is in sight!” “Victory is within our grasp!” We’re almost there! They have harped on this over and over, repeatedly, using very specific language — it’s in sight. It’s in our grasp.

    Please use your brain for once and realize that these are two smart people, and that anyone with two brains cells knows that the war is a failure and should never have been started. They want to get out. What they DON’T want is to get out with a bunch of chest-beating and egotistical oratory about how awful we are, look at us world, we’re the WORST PEOPLE EV4H! (I won’t go into how that is fundamentally EGOTISM any further. Hummer, swirl bulb.) They fully intend to do a little more shit in Iraq, declare “Victory! We’ve won! Laud our troops for winning the war!” *stage whisper* “Let’s get the fuck outta here.”

    And you know what? I don’t care. They want to get out of Iraq in a face-saving way. LET THEM. As long as those people get home and get some care and a well-deserved rest, I DON’T CARE if they have to find a way to do it that makes them feel good. Obama has TOLD you he wants to get out of Iraq in as theatrically self-abasing way as possible — and he’s even lying about that. And you KNOW it, and you don’t care because wearing the right button to show off how enlightened you are means more to you than actually ending that mess of a war.

    Also — NEVER forget that we are talking about one person who has been subjected to torture for years in a complete fuckup of a war, and another who has a kid over there. These people are not going to be warmongers.

    They want to end the war. It’s as plain as the beak on the end of your face, girl. They want to do it with trumpets and flags and ticker-tape parades. LET THEM.

    And again — point of advice. You’re allowed to call bullshit on someone who’s lying to you. You might want to keep that in mind for the rest of your life, it might stand you in good stead.

  364. IronMan

    Thank you for acknowledging the story about Corbett came from Newsmax which gives all writings a conservative slant. Corbett is wild at times but would never refer to young women “before they were out of diapers.” It appears the quotes attributed to Corbett were paraphrased. That says little about Newsmax’s credibility.

    Corbett has not officially endorsed McCain-Palin but seems to be moving in that direction.

  365. There is an old saying “root little pig or die”. and how about the one that says ” you made your bed, so no lie in it” or even better.”kiss my racist white a$$” all of these should be what hillary clinton tells obama the next time he comes whining to her for help.

    there is another old saying, the same people you step on on you way up, you wll meet again on your way down.

  366. You go, Janis:)

    BTW – What’s this whole mess about someone seeking Obama’s disbarment – he was a scofflaw for 17 years – lied about doing drugs on his bar application, etc, etc, etc.

  367. LOL Riverdaughter

    “stole your lunch money”

    “kicked you in the junk and gave you a wedgie”

    SO funny, because its TRUE!

  368. To be open let me say right out that I am a Conservative woman Republican here. I never agreed with Senator Clinton’s policies but have respected her strength and determination in cracking that glass ceiling.
    I have been lurking here for about a month. I agree with most of what you all say.
    I am posting for the first time to tell IronMan that he isn’t fooling anyone. He is either an Obamabot or a Republican troller and if he is the latter, he really makes me embarrassed for my party. If you can’t be honest about who you are, then you must not have much respect for the positions you believe in.

  369. *****************************************************

    Clinton Aide Says Hillary Will Not Attack Palin


    From politico:

    “She’s not the answer when it comes to winning conservative women — she never was — and we’re not going to be anybody’s attack dog against Sarah Palin,” said a Clinton insider. “To be fair to Obama’s people, they haven’t asked us to do that.”

    Slamming Palin to win back women already hostile to Obama is pointless, the insider said, because Clinton’s most loyal base is working-class voters, not women in particular. “Attacking Palin is checkers, attacking McCain on the economy is chess.”

    Many people supported Hillary becuase she was a centrist. She drew support from the middle.I find it hard to believe that she would even want to campaign for the left wing nut job that is Obama.

    I think Hillary is making it clear to her supporters to keep going and that it is ok to vote McCain-Palin in 2008!

    John and Sarah ’08
    Hillary ’12

  370. I find it hard to believe that she would even want to campaign for the left wing nut job that is Obama.

    You’re an idiot.

    Then I read your last sentence, and I’m laughing even more.


  371. Holly, on September 5th, 2008 at 5:49 pm Said:

    Read my many posts over at TL (under the name IronMan) and then please come back here and tell us what you think I am.

    Your accusation about me are as idiotic as the committee’s decision to steal delegates from Hillary Clinton and gave them to BO.

    While you may be a Republican, I am a Democrat and always have been. I voted for Bill Clinton in 1992 and in 1996. And I supported Hillary Clinton for POTUS!

    And YOU have the nerve to accuse me of being a Republican or Obamabot?


    I think you may be the Obamabot, Holly. I am a Democrat that will not support Barack Obama and that supports the following:

    John and Sarah ’08
    Hillary ’12

    I’m surprised that you, as a Republican, would be upset about the above.

    Please. Do.Tell.

  372. pie, on September 5th, 2008 at 5:58 pm Said:
    I find it hard to believe that she would even want to campaign for the left wing nut job that is Obama.

    You’re an idiot.

    Then I read your last sentence, and I’m laughing even more.


    Hi pie. What’s up with the personal name calling by you?


    Anyways, Barack Obama is not a centrist like Hillary. He really is a far left wing nut job, especially when it comes to foreign policy (meeting with no conditions) and his idea about a baby born alive from a botched abortion. Hillary was in the center. Obama is way to the left.

    I’m a conservative Democrat. Fiscally conservative, but I believe a woman should have the right to choose, and I believe in stem cell research.

    There are millions of Hillary Clinton supporters that feel the same way. I know. I am one of them. And I choose to not vote for Obama.

    If you want to defend Barack Obama, be my guest. But don’t expect me to do it.

  373. Time to send cheapmetalboy to the garbage bin.

  374. scranton, on September 5th, 2008 at 4:15 pm Said:

    It appears the quotes attributed to Corbett were paraphrased.

    Wait. It appears? So then are you saying there is a chance that he may have in fact said them? Your response does not sound very confident. Just checking.

  375. pie, on September 5th, 2008 at 6:08 pm Said:
    Time to send cheapmetalboy to the garbage bin.

    Pie, what is the problem that you have with my posts on this forum? I have been posting here for many weeks.

    Please let me know what your specific complaint is. I will be happy to try and answer your question or concern, but I will do so without calling you names. Name calling is ridiculous. Thanks.

  376. IronMan

    I was being kind to Newsmax. I did not want to say Corbett’s quotes were made up. Some were actually taken from his daily blog. But others were not accurate. I say this with confidence.

  377. get it straight, ironman. i have not endorsed mccain/palin. i have written about the ticket and am an undecided voter who will not vote for obama. read my stuff. listen to my show. call if you like. just be accurate. nobody from the right wing website interviewed me. the “reporter,” and i use that word loosely, just picked up quotes from my daily online column that made it look like he had spoken to me. and the origin of one lengthy quote is a huge mystery. paraphrased or mutated or whatever. scranton is correct. ironman is not.

  378. Hi corbett,

    Thanks for the clarification. It is unfortunate the reporter did that to you. I posted the info. and then questioned it above. I didn’t say you endorsed McCain-Palin and you don’t have to, but I hope you will. With all the media hype for Obama, America needs more people like you to stand up and fight for what you know is the right thing to do.

    Like you, I am a Hillary Clinton supporter and will not support Obama. Who is left for me to support? Nader? Just stay home? Write in Hillary’s name? That doesn’t help anything, but voting for McCain-Palin will.

    It is time to take back the Democratic Party from Obama. I believe the BEST way to do that and to also protect America from Obama’s radical judgment is to reject their underhanded and undemocratic tactics by voting against Obama on election day and voting for McCain-Palin. What Obama and the DNC elites did to Hillary was absolutely unconscionable. She was the stongest candidate by far and still is. The DNC stabbed Hillary in the back and sold her out for a loser. For these and other reasons, Obama will never get my support.

    He. Just. Doesn’t. Get. it.

    Stand Up America!

    John and Sarah ’08
    Hillary ’12

  379. Southern Appeal,

    I think tensions are high today 😀

    But it’s ok.

    I wonder what happened to Pie and Holly?

    Speaking of southern appeal, I heard this morning that the Obama campaign has or will be pulling advertising in Georgia. Perhaps he is losing some southern appeal along with his national appeal.

  380. I am a life-long Dem planning on voting for McCain/Palin in Nov. This is making me sick to my stomach, but I am outraged about how Hillary was treated. I am glad to find a place to vent, because I’ve been boiling ever since Obama picked Hairplugs. Although I don’t agree with Palin, I’m madder than hell about this crap they have pulled with Palin. “Oooh, she has 5 kids, can she be vice president?” It’s sickening.

    If McCain gets in, I doubt he’ll want to run in 4 yrs. The presidency takes a lot out of you. At least I know that McCain (like Hillary and Palin) love their country. Obama? I think he loves Obama. The US – not so much.

    And in 2012, it will be Hillary vs. Sarah. Imagine – 2 women being contenders for the presidency.

    If the Dems go down in flames in Nov., the next time they will have the sense to nominate the right candidate!

    I want to see Dean fired the day after the election!

  381. “I understand that she’s being threatened up the wazoo, I don’t blame her and I don’t think anyone else does. ”

    I truly don’t understand this kind of thinking. WTF else could they do to her? She can stand her ground and let Obama and the DNC implode on their own. She has devoted supporters . They can’t do anything to her she doesn’t let them do.

    Come on, Hillary, draw a line in the sand and make a stand. This is what we want to see in our leader. (At least I do)

  382. Come on, Hillary, draw a line in the sand and make a stand. This is what we want to see in our leader. (At least I do)

    I do too. Hillary still has the respect of those who voted for her and want her to run again in 2012.

    Obama is the one who is desperate now. She doesn’t need him – not in the long run. But, boy, does he need her right now!


  383. P.S. If McCain had picked some boring white guy like Romney or Pawlenty and everyone had fallen asleep during the entire GOP convention, do you think Obama would be sucking up to Hillary right now? No, she’d be under the bus.

    When Obama is on top, he’s arrogant as hell (like his obnoxious fan club.)

    Now that he’s in trouble, he cries for mommy. Reminds me of what my WWII vet dad said about the Germans (quoting Churchill I believe): “They are either at your throat or your feet.”

  384. […] Posts Sometimes they write (fake) lettersMcCain Speech: Live blogDrawing the LineRockin’ Out with Sarah-ccudaScratching Post Happy Hour Friday – The DNC can’t say we didn’t warn […]

  385. I’m a conservative Republican, but I don’t know a single other conservative who doesn’t think Hillary got screwed. But speaking not as a conservative or a Republican but an American to other Americans, for all the schadenfreude we may feel, ultimately, we need two healthy parties to keep the nation healthy. Take back your party. America needs it.

  386. […] this Hillary supporter sez (actually, the whole thing is really good): Let me get this straight, Sarah-cuda beats you up and […]

  387. I’m a libertarianish conservative, so I usually vote Republican — in the interest of full discloser and all. I’ve been browsing around the web today trying to get a feel for the state of Hillary supporters. To be honest, I really didn’t think McCain would pull very many of Clinton’s voters; she and Palin are just too different politically.

    I’ve been very surprised by the white-hot anger I’m seeing on a lot of forums, though. I don’t know how much of that will translate to votes, but I’m beginning to wonder how many will just stay home (this is what I was considering ten days about, B.P. — Before Palin).

    Anybody have any feel by the percentages what the discontent is? Have any polls been done?

  388. <sigh> ‘disclosure’. I has a bad case of the dumb today.

  389. i tried to go the us magazine site to see what was going on there after seeing the news about how they had thousands of cancellations after their negative cover about palin. I didn’t really know the site so i tried


    it turned out to be an anti-obama site, it was hilarious. Recommend everybody go look at it.

  390. Howdy, evil republican here. I just wanted to say I will really lose respect for Hillary if she helps this ass clown win. After the way the MSM and DNC threw her under the bus? I even felt bad for her. That was such a PUBLIC slap in the face.

    No. She needs to tell them she’d kinda busy right now…and then mention obama needs to grow a pair.

    I hope to see Palin vs Hillary – 2012. It should be a good one!

  391. i am changing to no way, now how, nobama, noprah

    i hope just as many women cancel their oprah magazine subscriptions as they did with us magazine and everyone quits watching her show.

  392. I will never vote Obama. If he had pick Hillary Clinton as Vice President I would have voted for them. I think he total lack of respect to Hillary and women is a Outrage. Then who he picked does he not remember what this man said about him when he to was running for the ticket of President? Then their is the Change he keeps saying over and over again, one thing short Obama nevers states what the change will be. It scares me that a Jr. Senator thinks he can make such statements about sitting down with Iran or any other Country involved that is against the United States. What is thinking they will have a tea party and everything will be okay. He is setting up America to fall as the Great Nation that we have been. I don’t mean from the Bush last eight years. Think people he is only a Jr Senator!

  393. I am a Rep, will vote for MCcain/Palin. I heard that some Hillary supporters will not vote for Obama, but didn’t realize that it was a huge community. I will be honest, I would not vote for Hillary, but I have to admit that it wasn’t fare the way press and high ranking Democrats treated her. Bill was accuse of racism, that was classic, I am sure he was outrage, he always thought that he was the first “black president”.
    Well anyways, will be very exiting to see Palin vs Hillary in 2012, if MCcain wins, which I hope he does.

  394. […] Reality follows the fiction above! See this post! […]

  395. all I can say is with voices and insight and drive as powerful as what I am seeing here and in other similiar blogs, surely to god the foundations are being laid for a women’s 3rd political party here in America – I plan to keep harping on this, I’ve got freedom of speech too. Are you seeing more men coming to these parts? I would hope so.

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