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Governor Palin’s Winning Narrative

My Preferred Snack Till November 5th

My Preferred Snack Till November 5th

Both Myiq2xu and I have focused on the power of narratives as they relate to this election season. We humans are all wired to appreciate a good story. In fact, storytelling is the oldest form of entertainment, and we all do it without thinking, don’t we? We organize the events in our lives into a beginning, middle and end, and then relate them to our circle of friends, family and other loved ones.

A narrative is like a story on steroids. It organizes a person, not events, into a prism through which all of their actions are seen. This year, the “narrative” candidate on the Democratic side was Barack Obama. When people wanted to know what he would do for us as President, he would tell his story. Historic candidacy. Post-racial. Post-partisan. Washington outsider. Against corruption. Uniter, not divider. Sounded great to a lot of people, who never noticed that the narrative did not fit the reality.

Obama’s narrative was powerful enough to get him the Democratic nomination. (Okay, that, and the DNC forced it to happen, but it was still a huge factor.) By itself, McCain’s narrative (did you know he was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, and is a straight-talking maverick?) might have trumped Obama’s. But the fact is, people are tired of do-nothing government. Thanks to eight years of destruction by Bush, the Republican brand is incredibly weak, yet the Democrats took over in January of 2007 and failed to do the only thing that would stop the war(s) in Iraq and end the gridlock on the economy and the environment: impeach Bush and Cheney. Obviously, Pelosi and Reid aren’t so wonderful either.

So now what? Where do we go from here? Maybe a young, fresh-faced outsider who promises to fight partisan gridlock and lobbying and special interests?

Well, if you want that narrative, why not go with Governor Sarah Palin?

Last night, Sarah spun HER narrative: a story of a Republican who appoints Democrats and Independents to her cabinet; a story of a pro-life woman who refused to abort her special needs baby and will help her teenage daughter get through the rigors of her unplanned pregnancy; a story of a REAL Washington outsider, who has successfully taken on the special interests and her own Party’s corruption in Alaska; a story of a real person, a hockey mom just like us, with no use for the Governor’s jet or the servants and chef in the Governor’s mansion. (Yes, she sold the Governor’s jet on e-Bay.)

The speech was an incredible success. And when John McCain came out to congratulate her, he was wearing a PUMA orange tie – the same color that Hillary wore the night of her speech at the Convention. PUMAs, there is no doubt that he wants our votes, and I’m guessing that he’ll get quite a few of them after last night.

Obamasphere, corporate media, Obama/DNC Conglomerate: you’ve been punked.

Did you REALLY think that John McCain would pick a VP that was not thoroughly able to handle the job? Did you REALLY think that he chose her out of desperation?

Well, you must not have been doing any oppo research. (Of course not. Obamans are not strong on facts; they’re too busy hoping and changing and believing.) There have been conservatives who were begging for this choice since 2007! Besides, Governor Palin’s name has been on McCain’s short list for several months now.

What seems clear now is that McCain chose her, not just because she is a real, conservative Republican with a high likeability factor, but also because she is the Republican Barack Obama. Historic factor? Check – ladyparts. Post-partisan? Check. Anti-corruption? Check. Young, hawt and Washington outsider? Check, check and check. Or should I say, checkmate?

It’s all over but the shouting. McCain/Palin is an unbeatable anti-corruption, reform ticket that promises TRUE change (and may actually deliver it, although I’m dubious about what form that change will take). In the meantime, much entertaining hilarity will ensue as the fauxgressive and corporate media meltdown continues at the thought of Teh Scary Vagina being “one heartbeat away” from the Presidency. It’s gonna happen, guys. Cover your tiny wee-wees and get used to it.

Am I happy about this master stroke by McCain? Yes and no. I do not want Obama in the White House for many reasons, but I have believed he was post-electable since the Wright scandal and BitterCling. Thus, I have been resigning myself to a McCain victory if Hillary was not allowed to become the nominee.

But it’s such a waste, because we Democrats had a really powerful narrative with Hillary too. She also was going against her Party, which clearly had done all it could to torpedo her, even trying to pressure her to quit as early as February. She also was a person like us, a champion of the working class. That narrative was slow to develop, but by the time the primaries ended, it was giving her 40% victories over Obama in key swing states. And of course, she was a fighter, the woman who never gave up, the superhero with the titanium pantsuit who could not be beaten by the opposition, but only by betrayal from the forces on her own side of the aisle.

As I watched all the happy women in the convention hall last night, I felt the pain of justice denied. That should have been us, PUMAs. We should have been the ones that were cheering as Hillary took the stage as the Democratic nominee for President.

Oh well. There’s always 2012. In the meantime, I’m going to vote Democratic down-ticket, find some ways to help bring democracy back to the Democratic Party (maybe join my local Democratic organization), and possibly be a poll worker to prevent any shenanigans at my voting place.

And one more thing.

I’ll be eating a lot of popcorn.

334 Responses

  1. Ummm, 2012….H is not going to run. Hate me if you must 😉

  2. great post. they really did find someone who REALLY fit the narrative they tried to create for obama. genius…

  3. hey gary, good luck at work…

  4. Upstate – NEVER! But why do you think that?

    She’d be crazy not to after McCain/Palin come in and screw things up even worse than Bush. Trust me, she is already planning her strategy against VP Palin in 2012.

  5. madamab: Tip of the hat to your brilliance in capturing the entire narrative and placing it before us for digestion! Our thoughts exactly over the months leading up to this spectacular mishandling of the primaries.

  6. The DNC has been roadblocking H’s nomination right and left….H is astute. She is not running again and I do not blame her.

  7. PJ – Thank you. I’m so glad you came out of your shell and back in fine fettle. Don’t you DARE stop commenting!!! 🙂

  8. Upstate – After Obama’s spectacular defeat in November, the ODNC will be discredited. She will have them right where she wants them.

  9. Yes, PJ, whatever madamab said.

  10. For me, the Sarah Palin pick was like a freezing cold glass of water in my face.

    Check out Gloria’s Steinem’s opinion article in the LA Times. Palin: wrong woman, wrong message

    And also today, I got the bejesus scared out of me with this:
    Terrorism charges lodged against protesters at GOP convention

    Although I’m sympathetic to the voices here, and read this blog all the time, I personally feel the need to pick my battles. I can’t help but feel that arrests and other similar actions would increase with McCain in office.

    This is a horrible year. I so wish that Hillary was at the top of the ticket.

  11. upstate: No, no, no! Sarah may be the flavor of the day but trust me, those religious themes emanating out of the WH are going to go down like bad medicine. She may be cute and perky, but she is no Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    The nation is no different than us. Unhappy with Obama, most are seeking an alternative to him. Right now, she fits the bill. Not McCain, not the Repugs, her. Once in office, the bloom will soon shatter since this is merely a protest vote on its appeal.

  12. Will see, madamab. I think it will be a different time and a different reality.

    Plus O is going to defeat the hicks, right?

  13. this is on the “breaking news banner” at CNN

    Bloggers dish at their roundtable about the RNC

    I’m glad I have no sound at work and can’t hear what godawful things they must be saying….

  14. Independents likely to vote McCain Increased 9% after Gov. Palin Speech

  15. Citizen K: Those protestors have no idea what they are protesting. They are there merely to stir up trouble. Breaking windows, engaging the police, refusing to move, and when asked what they are protesting they have no clear agenda. I am not advocating the limitation of free speech, but from all appearances this looks to be a group of people with nothing better to do.

  16. Citizen K – Gloria Steinem should be ashamed of herself. And please don’t tell me Obama wouldn’t be at least as authoritarian as McCain. Obama is a cultist and brooks no disagreement. He also supported the warrantless wiretapping “compromise.”

    OTOH, you are right that this is a horrible year. I miss Hillary too.

  17. PJ – I wonder if those “protesters” aren’t really right-wingers in disguise. The PUMA protests at the DNC were peaceful. Who are these people?

  18. This is a horrible year. But I agree with madamab about Obama and the suppression of dissent. That’s what he has always done, eliminate the opposition.

    Whereas McCain strikes me as more of an Arizona libertarian than an authoritarian.

  19. Pat, lets wait and see.

    fred…lets see, Independents, Mc….obamacans…extinct species….fundamentalists….Palin.

    Yep, O is doing a great job (GWB would be so proud).

  20. Cover your tiny wee-wees and get used to it.

    madamab, at the informal press conference today, when BO was reacting to questions about Palin, he did seem to be shielding himself. Check out his body language.

    Does anyone have the video ?

  21. Pat Johnson, that might be true that they have no idea what they’re protesting. But terrorist charges? It’s exactly why I think we have Homeland Security (such a Nazi sounding name) and other new anti-constitutional legislation. I’m an ACLU member and look forward to their response to this.

  22. Madamab, great job sounds so pedistrian, but you have perfectly encapsulated what I too have been thinking.

  23. plural – I think so too. He is definitely a wild card who is capable of surprising a lot of people.

  24. Robin – Really? I’m not surprised. Remember when that commentator said he crossed his legs every time he saw Hillary?

    Babies. Whiny little babies, all of them.

    (Thanks Prolix!)

  25. Weren’t there a lot of arrests at the Republican convention in NYC in 2004?

  26. Citizen K: Admittedly I had no idea they were using Homeland Security to base their charges on. I too an a card carrying member of the ACLU for many years. From what little I saw on the news, this group consisted of a lot of teens who had no idea who was running on what ticket when questioned, had scarves over their faces, and were randomly throwing rocks through store windows. This is as much as I know.

  27. madamab, not sure why you’re saying the Gloria Steinem should be ashamed of herself. Have you read the article? I think McCain IS using her just like he used/using Cindy. I have no bone to pick with Sarah P. and believe she is heartfelt and probably a great mom who lives by her convictions. But she’s being used.

  28. plural: Yes, but they were clearly identified as war protesters. This group has no known identity to my knowledge.

  29. Citizen, why is she being used?

  30. Plural – Yes. They were peaceful protests too. It was quite scary. (Our Mayor is a Republic, of course.)

    BTW – the new OBot talking point is that Gloria Steinem doesn’t want us to vote for Sarah Palin. I’ve seen it several times today, here and even at my teeny blog.

    Oh really? Where was Gloria when Hillary was getting savaged by the press 24-7? I remember one complimentary editorial, then crickets and devotion to The One.

    Some of these older feminists have a lot to answer for, I think. They should have all been screaming to high heaven about how Hillary was being treated. Instead, most jumped on the Obama bandwagon.


  31. Citizen K: Everything in politics is quid pro quo so if Sarah is being used, Sarah already knows that.

  32. PJ – Yes, my troll sensors are on high alert. This is another one, I think.

  33. I want HILLARY in 2012! But I do feel a lot better about McCain/Palin than some.

    Chew on this, for those really uncomfortable with the religion stuff. Sarah Palin is ALASKAN. That is not the Bible Belt. The culture is not a fundie hotbed, they are conservative, yes, like most rural people, but very much individualist, live-and-let live in attitude..

    So if she is the batshit crazy wild-eyed religious zealot bent on Dominionism that some are trying to paint her, how the heck has she kept a steady 80- 90% approval rating in Alaska?

  34. madamab: I swear, you site monitors for the most part could dig up truffles!!!!!

  35. Citizen:

    If you want to talk about someone being used, look at the way Obamanation keeps demanding Hillary carry Obama on her back, even though they wouldn’t even consider her for the VP job

    If McCain wins, Palin will be the VP

    That means she wins too

  36. if being used means being one of a handful of women governors and being selected to run for the second most powerful position on earth, that’s a new one on me. I can’t believe Gloria is trying to paint Palin as a victim. How sexist of her…

  37. Robin, I liked the tiny little wee-wees line as well. I’ll have to start looking for the wee-wee hiding in action.

    Agree, madamab, about the Palin narrative. I believe it will be enough. Maybe not enough PUMAs will vote McCain but the Palin candidacy will have motivated more conservative women to vote Repub this year. I personally think that will be enough to put a woman in the White House (as more than just an ornament, that is).

  38. madamab, here is the video:

  39. Gary – I know. It’s just outrageous. What happened to the whole “I am woman, hear me ROAR!” meme?

    Now it seems to be “I am woman, please don’t hurt me.”


  40. WMCB: Good point. However, if Hillary were to be the nominee we would not even be having this discussion. As it is, we just have to “hope” the “change” she brings does not include too much of the leanings of the Religious Right. (Do you like the way I was able to bring those two rotten words into the discussion? Sometimes I even surprise myself!)

  41. When we say someone is being used, it implies that the person will not receive anything in return for what they are doing.

    Hillary is being used.

    Sarah Palin is being employed

  42. BTW, guys, Gloria and other women opining are the new talking points, since “Hillary told you to” didn’t work.

    Obama campaign has been trotting out every stern-faced woman he can find on TV all day long, to tell us wimminz that we silly gooses have no idea what our own interests are.

    Sheesh, Axelrod is so pedestrian and predictable. He needs more subtlety when he rolls this stuff out, honestly. Most of us have been in politics far longer than he – we did not find our political activism under a cabbage leaf yesterday.

  43. I disagree with Steinem’s assessment on the Palin choice. If I can’t find my shoes, I won’t cut off my legs, but will wear my sandals or my boots. A woman has to break through the ceiling, to clear the passage for others. It should have been Hillary, but thanks to Pelosi, McCaskill and Brazile (other damn women and I blame them more than anyone) it will not be Hillary. Palin is not my first choice, but she will clear the way for our daughters and grandddaughters.

  44. myiq2xu: Loved the summation!

  45. Robin – You’re right! Hands right over the crotch!!!

    I remember when I was a young actor, and I took a summer course in acting, singing and dancing. There was one speaker who cautioned against holding your hands that way in front of an audience.

    He said the message it sent was “sexually repressed.”

    Hmmmm, no wonder Michelle looks so angry all the time….


  46. Is Condi Rice being used by GWB? Is every woman chosen by a Republican for a high office being used?

    I don’t agree with them, but I respect their political choices.

  47. So what do we do now? I don’t think McCain/Palin will be good for the country. Cute and perky as she is, Palin has a very back woods mindset and she really isn’t ready for the presidency. On the other hand, Obama is such an egomaniacal, sexist, lightweight little weasel. How is he going to deliver on the enormity of what he’s promising? He’s spent so much time dodging the hard work of legislating and his experience/knowledge base is so thin that I have no confidence he would be able (or know how to) turn the wheels of government.
    So, again, what do we do now?

  48. madamab: I just spit a mouthful of coffee all over this screen!!

  49. Pat, I am not suggesting she is risk-free in that regard. But I think some of the OMG! hyperbole is a bit much, given what I have seen of her actions in Alaska.

  50. plural, good question. What I have read in the article is she was touted all summer by Rush Limbaugh, so part of the using has to do with serving her up to the religious right to steal back those votes from Obama. I’m not entirely sure she’ll stay v.p. I am guessing McCain will drop her later for Lieberman. Perhaps she’s also being used to serve up to the truly pissed off Clinton supporters. I distinguish that group from many posting here because those truly pissed off women aren’t thinking. But then many in the republican base aren’t thinking either and will vote for any republican women. My very first response to the announcement though was it was a desperate move by McCain to gain back the religious right and the outsider republicans who long for the Reagan days. She’s a fiscal and social conservative, if you don’t scratch the surface.

  51. Gloria Steinem sounded shrill.

    OK, that was a joke. You know, because a bunch of dems were saying that about Palin. OK, I’ll go stand in the corner now. 🙂

  52. I just find all this lecturing to be so d*mn condescending. Steinem isn’t even telling the truth about Palin’s pro-life beliefs.

    Sorry, Obamans. We’ve taken the red pill. (h/t to BB!)

  53. justsaynotobo: For me it is to not vote the top of the ticket unless I absolutely have to in my state and then it will be McCain. More than anything I want the DNC to implode. But I do not want to be taking my marching orders from the likes of Jesse Jackson, Jr. or Donna Brazile. The choice this time around is pretty paltry but with McCain at least he will be held down somewhat by a majority congress. Obama in charge would be devastating since he will just employ Bush tactics and push everything through without a word of opposition.

  54. McCain surely knows that switching vp nominees would not be a winning strategy. Or do you mean after the election?

  55. Citizen K, you’re becoming insulting.

    A vote for McCain/Palin, while it’s not the way I’m going, is not necessarily the result of being unthinking or pissed off.

    Continue in this vein, and you’ll be edited or deleted. Fair warning.

  56. The President cannot fire the Vice President. It is a Constitutional office, and the only way to force a VP from office is impeachment by Congress.

    Even if a VP resigns, the HOR picks the replacement

  57. justsaynotobo, WE don’t do anything. I vote how I want, you vote (or not) how you want. You own your vote, I own mine. 🙂

  58. VAc:

    But she’s likable enough

  59. WMCB: I am not disagreeing with you, we take chances no matter who gets in. God only knows what the next 4 years will be like for any of us.

  60. I thought Steinem’s denigrating Palin’s election because her opponent was unpopular was pretty desperate.

  61. Palin’s not my first choice, but I want Palin vs. Clinton in 2012 — BAD.

    I want the Democraps so shit-scared of anything with tits that they hand Clinton over to us as the `12 nominee out of naked pants-wetting terror that, if they don’t, they’ll never see the inside of the WH again.

  62. Why anyone would think McCain would dump Palin for Droopy Joe is a mystery. Are people that blind? Can they not see what a smash hit she is?

    It would be like dropping Babe Ruth for Yogi Berra.

  63. I agree Pat. I want my Hillary! But I am actually glad that if I HAVE to do the unthinkable it’s McCain/Palin, rather than say…..Rudy/Romney.

  64. Janis – I Heart You.

  65. If McCain wins and doesn’t run in 2012 and its Hillary vs Palin, the only way Hillary will win is if the country is in the toilet. If McCain and Palin do well for the next four years, Hillary doesn’t have a chance.

  66. Palin’s not my first choice, but I want Palin vs. Clinton in 2012 — BAD.

    I want the Democraps so shit-scared of anything with tits that they hand Clinton over to us as the `12 nominee out of naked pants-wetting terror that, if they don’t, they’ll never see the inside of the WH again.

    YESSSS!!!!!! I would die of joy to see TWO women running against each other for Prez, esp if one was Hillary.

    It would fundamentally change this country for the better.

  67. I thought Governor Palin’s speech was very good. And I too believe her “narrative” is excellent. There are a lot of us “ordinary” folks out here that are sick and damn tired of the condescending attitude of the elite members of both parties.

    Governor Palin is a breath of fresh air in that regard. She talked down to no one and seemed quite comfortable in her own skin.

    I particularly like her line, “know the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick!” That is a woman I can relate to on at least one level.

  68. mawm, bingo.

    That’s why I cried when I first heard about this.

  69. Somebody needs to tell Obamanation that sending women out as surrogates to attack Palin is pretty transparent.

    And watching CNN with the sound turned off last night, the visuals were terrible.

  70. Some of us “old feminists” have been raising a raucus throughout this last year –
    Justsaynotobo – you’re right what do we do now?
    I have been bombarded by emails from friends who came over to Hill this past year asking if we should mount a write-in campaign.

    There has to be a more effective way to overcome this blatant abuse

  71. PJ: I am with you, the next four years will be scary, no matter who we chose. Obama and a democratic congress with free rein (horror), McCain in gridlock, (still scary). I’d rather be scared than horrified.

  72. Cute and perky as she is, Palin has a very back woods
    mindset and she really isn’t ready for the presidency.

    Piss off. I have a friend who just got her JD who comes from Wausilla. Her whole family is from there; she was born and raised in Alaska. Fuck that “cute, perky” shit — she’s been hamstrung by it her whole life because she’s smallish, busty, and blond. You can cram cute and perky up your bald ass.

    Here’s “perky” for you. My friend’s aunt, another Alaskan woman who I’ve seen pictures of with the dead bodies of moose the size of station wagons next to her, was fucking KIDNAPPED AT GUNPOINT AND HELD FOR RANSOM by MULTIPLE ARMED ASSAILANTS while in Mexico a while back. (This woman’s name is “Tammy.” Her family nickname is “Tambo.”)

    She was tied up, blindfolded, and taken out into the jungle in flipflops with nothing but a pack of cigarettes. She waited until her assailants fell asleep, grabbed a roll of toilet paper and some cigarettes from the SHACK they had brought her to, and snuck off — IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING JUNGLE AT NIGHT. She kept her head, she’d tracked enough ENORMOUS game to know how to survive in that environment. She found a gas station EVENTUALLY, and was reunited with her family IN ONE PIECE.

    Take that cute and perky shit and SHOVE IT UP YOUR ASS. ALASKA WOMEN CAN EAT YOUR FACE and still have room for a pecan pie when they’re done.

    God DAMN it. I never want to hear “cute,” “perky” or “attractive” used to describe a female politican EVER AGAIN IN MY LIFE. FUCK her hair, FUCK her makeup, FUCK her clothes, and FUCK YOU.

  73. If the GOP gets in Sarah’s main job will be posing on the front lawn surrounded by kids and toys. Doubtful she will be another Cheney (the devil only made one model). McCain will be surrounded by the neo con advisers like Graham and Lieberman while congress attempts to raise their current rating from 9% to at least a 15.

    It more than likely will be 4 more years of gridlock as long as Nasty Nancy and Helpful Harry lead the way.

  74. mawm, you never know. 4 years is a long time, and lots can happen. I would never bet against Hill if she had free reign.

  75. Incredibly, Obama sex now it’s issues rather than personalities:
    EW PHILADELPHIA, Ohio–Barack Obama returned to the trail today, pouncing on a comment made by John McCain’s campaign manager, who suggested that the presidential election would be decided by personalities, not issues.

    Obama at mike in Ohio.jpg

    “Well, I guess I don’t blame them,” Obama (pictured at left in an AP photo) told a small crowd of invitees at a college campus here in eastern Ohio. “If you don’t have any issues to run on, I guess you want it to be all about personality
    caution – very unappealing pic of Obama at the link

  76. madamab, I’m a Hillary supporter because she was the best person for the job. I’m a woman and want to see equality for us. Luckily, Hillary potentially embodied both. Since she lost to Obama, or more correctly, he stole it from her, I’ve not known what I was going to do until my friend woke me up with the news that Palin was McCain’s choice. I’d read about her a couple of months ago and called his choice desperate.

    Also, Gloria Steinem supported Hillary:
    Read it. I remember back when Hillary was running. *tears*
    Also, look at this great quote from Stein on Clinton:
    “Clinton Surrogate Steinem Attacks McCain’s War Record
    March 02, 2008 8:39 PM

    The New York Observer reports that in Austin, Texas, over the weekend, feminist icon Gloria Steinem belittled Sen. John McCain’s five-and-a-half years as a POW and said the media would treat that war record differently if it were a woman veteran’s record.

    “Suppose John McCain had been Joan McCain and Joan McCain had got captured, shot down and been a POW for eight years?” Steinem asked, suggesting the media would ask “‘What did you do wrong to get captured? What terrible things did you do while you were there as a captive for eight years?” …

    Referring to his time in captivity, Steinem said, with bewilderment, “I mean, hello? This is supposed to be a qualification to be president? I don’t think so.”

    She was right then and she’s right now. It’s a horrible year for us. Maybe another horrible 4 years. I hope not.

  77. Obama hides his package whenever he feels threatened. At first I thought is was a faux gangstah pose. It isn’t.

  78. what I noticed last night was the lack of christian dog-whistles….you know like GWB likes to do..sneak in bible phrases that us heathens might miss.

  79. Mawm – The next four years are going to be horrible. Even Hillary would have had a terrible time of it. Bush has done outrageous things to our economy, our military, our social services sector, our environment, our Constitution….

    I would give McCain/Palin a 10% chance of doing such a good job that Hillary could not beat Palin. Just my thoughts of course, and we will have to see what happens.

  80. WMCB – “WE don’t do anything. I vote how I want, you vote (or not) how you want. You own your vote, I own mine.”

    Understood. But I’m interested in knowing what others have decided to do and what their reasoning is.

  81. Citizen K – Again, the lecturing.


  82. BO also dragged out his tired “if you criticize community organizer work as preparation for the presidency, you’re a racist” strategy. I doubt that will work on the unconverted.

  83. Well, I would say Janis field-dressed his moose, no?

  84. madamab, please help me out of moderation, I used the r word.

  85. justsaynotobo – I am in a solid blue state, so I’m voting my conscience – McKinney/Clemente. I’m voting down-ticket straight Dem. I want a large Dem majority to stop McCain from doing anything REALLY stupid.

    Those people in swing states will have a much harder choice. I sympathize with them.

  86. CBS Poll: McCain, Obama Tied
    CBS) The presidential race between
    Barack Obama
    John McCain
    is now even at 42 percent, according to a new CBS News poll conducted Monday-Wednesday of this week. Twelve percent are undecided according to the poll, and one percent said they wouldn’t vote.

  87. I don’t think this was a desperate choice by McCain, nearly as much as the choice of Biden by Obama was desperate. Obama needed a babysitter. McCain, as he said, chose a soul mate. It’s an interesting ticket, and definitely in-your-face to the Dems.

  88. @upstateNY, various times

    I’m with you–I doubt she’ll run again. It’s too bad. Senate Majority Leader? Or, after the mess Howie & Co. have made, Senate Minority Leader may be more like it. But I’m betting on Justice Clinton.

  89. The testimonials of female conversions to the O cause after Palins speech continues at TL.

  90. I’m not saying they will do a great job. I just mean if they do, the American people will want to go with Palin. This year is special because Cheney isn’t running. If he were, I think Gloria Steinem could have beaten him.

  91. Citizen K – Yes, it’s a horrible year and no matter what choice we make now we’re very likely to set some ugly wheels in motion for the next four years.

  92. garychapelhill, interesting observation. I’m a paralegal too so I have that knack for remembering things. She did say: “But we are expected to govern with integrity, good will, clear convictions, and … a servant’s heart.:

    The “servant’s heart” is pure christian culture speak.

    I’m reading over the text of her speech now.

  93. I don’t think Hillary will run again, either.

    And I really think the Supreme Court is waaaay too ivory tower for her. She’s a person of action, not somebody who wants to sit around writing briefs.

  94. Mawm – LOL!

    I agree. Cheney is even more despised than Pelosi!

  95. plural, I thought Obama’s choice was desperate and disappointing too. I look at both of them and get depressed. Even though I want Hillary free to run in 2012, I secretly wished she’d been asked to be his VP.

  96. OT

    Here’s a cause we must get behind. Stop Tweety becoming a Senator in PA in 2010! God, this makes me spitting mad.

    Can you imagine the protests?


  97. Somebody should tell the Obama surrogates to smile when they are on television.

    They look bitter

  98. Palin: wrong woman, wrong message

    I’m still planning to vote McKinney, but Dems criticizing Palin for not being Hillary are so disingenuous. Hillary was the right woman with the right message, and guess what — the Dems burned her at stake.
    You know what message I’m getting? If you’re a woman who wants to succeed in politics, join the GOP.

  99. WMCB, my friend and most of her female relatives are some of the most admirable people I know — people who know how to work, and know that feminism means working, not getting a book contract, self-promoting, and blogging about your hot new red dress.

    Those women are so deluded into believing that feminism existed to give birth to them personally that they think their shit is more feminist than yours.

    I think it’s no accident that the one person I know who has actually made the conscious decision to use her career to advance justice explicity is the Alaskan with the enormous arm muscles whose family was on public assistance while she was growing up. Everyone else, and I can include myself in this, are in that weird career place where we try to talk up what we do as adding some sort of liberal value to the world when in reality, it’s a paycheck. She’s doing it.

  100. Sorry to jump in, quite OT, but this has been bugging me for a while: Susan Sarandon and her hate of Hillary. What’s up with that? Did something happen that forever traumatised her or something?

    And the reason I’m asking this now – a new article at IMDb com, where Sarandon calls Hillary a whiner who only got where she is because she’s a woman.

    Can’t figure out how to past link, but it’s on the website anyway.

    Also, thank you all for being here 🙂 My mother and I could switch off the ‘news’ and get the real thing from you. It’s much appreciated.

  101. Sarandon can bite my ass until her teeth fall out.

  102. If Obama had chosen Kaine, as I think he would have liked, there’s a chance I could have supported him. It would be a consistent choice, and courageous.

    He wimped out with Biden. He chose to hide behind the longtime insider Dems instead of standing on his own and saying, This is what I’m about.

  103. britgirls – Thanks! Great idea!

    I think we should find a liberal Democrat to run against Matthews. Specter is a faux centrist who always makes a lot of noise, but ends up voting with Bu$hCo. He is not our friend. More and better Democrats is my motto.

  104. CBS: eight point swing, back to a tie race, even before the bounce from last night is factored in.

    We now go to basketball analogies: which campaign reminds you most of that playoff game where the Lakers led by 24 points… and lost?

  105. Janis? heh.

  106. we did not find our political activism under a cabbage leaf yesterday.
    WMCB – LOL!!

  107. Citizen K, on September 4th, 2008 at 4:16 pm Said:
    “…Check out Gloria’s Steinem’s opinion article in the LA Times. Palin: wrong woman, wrong message.”

    Gloria Steinem wrote a terrible article. Too bad she couldn’t bother to do the research many of the people on this board have already done.

  108. Janis – WOW! You rock. That story about your friend was amazing.

    Plural – The ONLY WAY I would have voted for Obama is if he chose Hillary. Or, I could have gone Obama if McCain picked Lieberman.

    I hear what you’re saying, but Kaine was a no-go for me. The all-rookie, all Republican-lite team. No thanks.

  109. I didn’t want Hillary to be his servant girl.

    I really don’t like Kaine either, but at least it would have reinforced the “change” message and been something new.

    Biden has been in the senate since Richard Nixon was reelected president. Think about that.

  110. Everyone else, and I can include myself in this, are in that weird career place where we try to talk up what we do as adding some sort of liberal value to the world when in reality, it’s a paycheck. She’s doing it.

    Spoken like a woman who knows exactly who she is and where she intends to go! Bet there are few females in the world of Obamabots who could honestly posit the same of themselves. Good on you, Janis!

  111. WMCB

    “we did not find our political activism under a cabbage leaf yesterday.”

    I think some actually found theirs under an arugula leaf.

  112. Gary – she did use the ‘a time to heal, a time to fight’, but dunno if that counts, since by now that’s more pop culture than Bible.

  113. Hillary’s one of the smartest people around, man or woman, and it’s so obvious – so I just can’t understand Sarandon’s ‘heat’… to put it mildly.

    Actually, I can’t understand a helluva lot about this White House race. How did O even get this far? But as someone wise once said, just follow the money.

    I know I’m not saying anything new, sorry. Just wanted to add my voice to the many confused out here.

  114. As long as she does not include Tim Lehaye as her favorite author I guess I can live with it.

  115. britgirls, on September 4th, 2008 at 5:01 pm Said:


    Here’s a cause we must get behind. Stop Tweety becoming a Senator in PA in 2010! God, this makes me spitting mad.

    I’ll vote for that!

  116. Can I be Palin in my next life?

  117. CitizenK, I don’t know why but your whole assessment just freaking reeks to me. It smells of don’t vote for her, she’s baaaaad! Ooooh the boogeyman. I don’t agree with much that Steinem has said, other than when she was praising Hillary. McCain’s war record should never be made into a joke. He served, which is much better than most can say and he was all the things they said he was. What was her name, Jessica Lynch, she was made into a hero and the last I heard she was a woman. So preach somewhere else or I will just pas over anything you say.

  118. britgirls,

    no wonder there’s so little of their political activism. an arugula leaf’s so much smaller…and it quickly shrinks to nothing.

  119. Yeah, the women in PA are going to just rollover in the Tweetie catnip when he announces his bid. Lest not one forget who he is and what he espouses. Those mindful PA women voters are going to toss him so hard to the side of the road his leg won’t be the only thing tingling.

  120. …so I just can’t understand Sarandon’s ‘heat’… to put it mildly…

    a large ego and a small mind can lead to disastrous conclusions imo.

  121. Ok, I included a url…..somebody free me from moderation. Thanks.

  122. MSNBC–Chris Matthews just indicated that his questions about Sarah Palin have been reasonable and that American people (read Chris Matthews) have the right to ask the “tough questions of their politicians by objective journalists”. Matthews thinks he has been reasonable and objective. Can you spell delusion?

  123. Voting Democrat downticket is not good enough. If you do not vote for McCain/Palin, Obama is the next president. After eight years of Bush, there are not enough Republicans left to defeat Obama without you PUMAs.

    And Janis, don’t get mad, get even.

  124. Susan is still all het up with the Iraq war vote. Of course, she can handily overlook Biden’s hand in this since he is a “boy” but never forgive Hillary since she out and out refused to characterized it as a mistake. That is one that Susan is still chewing on.

  125. Gary – the biggie had to do with the ‘Servant’s Heart’ – that is a HUGE catch phrase in evangelical / NGO circles.

  126. cecelia, see my last comment. dave, I believe you are underestimating us. there are many pumas out there that don’t even know they are pumas, I meet one almost every day….

  127. oh, see I don’t know my christian speak…lol

  128. new CBS poll (before speech): McCain closes 8 pts gap – tied. PUMAs at 32%

  129. He’s really running? I’ve got the slogan for Matthews.

    I am the change that I’ve been waiting for…

  130. In my circle of family and friends, other than one person I know, there is not one voting Obama. There are many more like these who are not PUMAs or are even familiar with the term. And my state, MA, is extremely liberal overall. He could carry it but I doubt it will be by much.

  131. madamab, my friend’s aunt is massively cool. Backwoods, cute — whatever. All the women in that family are smallish and cute. But if anyone thinks that it doesn’t take incredible management and organizing abilities to survive a winter up there and make sure you’ve got everything you need for a month just in case you get sewn in … they’re dreaming.

    I value education, and I value higher education. My friend clearly does, or else she wouldn’t have gotten her JD. But she also values the ability to feed yourself when abandoned in the middle of nowhere. She’s got a doctorate, but when she owned a car (truck), she also made damned sure she had a thermal blanket, a few day’s of food, and water in the back of the thing.

    She was also the person who informed me that it was required by law (AFAIK) to stop and help a stranded motorist if you pass them by the side of the road in Alaska. She always said that it breeds smarter than average people, because if you’re stupid, you die. She was from southern Alaska, and she knew that much.

  132. My fellow Conflucians:

    I’m getting more and more uneasy about our choices. My whole office today was buzzing about Sarah Palin. I work for a democrat and there are many in my office who are bitter HIllary deadenders. One colleague told me that her husband, a police man, said last night that he missed Hillary so much. I put “The Confluence Riverdaughter” on a post it note and told her “this is what he needs.” I’m becoming the conscience of the office. Everyone wants to know how I am going to vote. Earlier in the day I explained the PUMA movement to former Hillary voters who are now total Obama people. I tell them we are a secret society of Hillary “end of days” supporters. I said that I wish Joe Biden was the nominee instead of Barack. I’m frigthened by Palin’s religious beliefs yet I fell somewhat in love with her last night.

    I’m now an undecided voter in Ohio. I’m going with RD’s sentiments from earlier to let them pander to us.

  133. edge, but, but, but.

  134. I do believe there are a couple of manipulative bots on the board today.

    When I type this, I’m dead serious…I actually believe this woman has the country’s best interests at heart, and hearing about her record and how even Dems love in Alaska, I think she can bring real influence of reform Washington.

    No, she’s not Hillary…no one is. But I’m not standing around and letting the Democratic party be rewarded for the BULLSHIT it’s flung at us from the beginning.

    You already know who I’m voting for, and it sure as hell isn’t uhbama.

  135. Or Matthews slogan: I need to be changed.

  136. EOF – That poll is interesting. Gallup had a much higher number of O supporters in its latest – 81%.

    I swear to Jeebus, I don’t believe ANY of these polls.

  137. If McCain is smart, he’ll have Palin give his speech tonight.

  138. LOVE IT MadamaB!!!!

  139. I am doing the same arithmetic that McCain is. There are 18 million Hillary voters and, let’s say, 50% of them are hopping mad about what BO and the DNC did to Hillary. There are 38 million Republicans. About 90 million votes were cast in the last presidential election.

    Ergo, McCain needs the PUMAs or Obama wins. Don’t waste your vote this time.

  140. destardi – cough “Citizen K” cough cough 🙂

    Obama’s slogan: You have the change I’m looking for!

  141. If McCain is smart he will give a few shout outs to Hillary Clinton tonight. We may not have “anyplace else to go” but that includes him as well.

  142. madamab, on September 4th, 2008 at 5:25 pm Said:

    Ding ding ding! You win a prize!

  143. Dave – That advice is good for folks in swing states.

    It’s the map, not the math. Right? 🙂

  144. Dave, please don’t tell us how to vote. Gracias.

  145. Gary: big ego + small mind…LOL

  146. PJ – If McCain comes out in an orange suit, I think we’ll get the message.


  147. oh myiq – doncha just bet he is trying to figure that one out right now?

  148. Citizen K, on September 4th, 2008 at 4:39 pm Said:
    “What I have read in the article is she was touted all summer by Rush Limbaugh, so part of the using has to do with serving her up to the religious right to steal back those votes from Obama.”

    Where do you dream up this shit? The Republicans don’t have to “steal back” the religious right from Obama. Obama NEVER HAD the votes from the religious right. Reverend Wright, “above his pay grade” and his votes against the BAIPA guaranteed that.

  149. I’m grew up on a farm. I know rural voters and small town people. I left Chicago to be closer to what I know. I do believe Sarah Palin has the best interests of our country at heart. I know McCain doesn’t care what we do in our bedrooms. I think his presidency would be a blast. I will tell you that in Ohio we are fired up! Apparently, yesterday, Obama called the town of New Philadelphia, ‘New Pennsylvania.”

  150. dave mccain needs about 50,000 voters in Virginia and colorado–max (i believe he’s already got them). and that’s giving Obama the benefit of the doubt. PUMAs would just be the icing on the cake.

  151. McCain is asking for our votes, and is willing to pander.

    Obama is demanding our votes, and sending out surrogates who claim we owe them to him

  152. I am putting up all my Fall decorations tomorrow. I am in the mood to let orange dominate my home for the next two months. If we see orange festooning the stage tonight, and I am not a diviner, guaranteed this is code.

  153. kjmontana – Hilarious, no?

    Newsflash: The religious right was NEVER going to vote for Barack Hussein Obama.

    That delusion was always one of my favorite things to mock about The One.

  154. Watch Anderson Cooper carefully. He knows which way the political and societal winds are blowing.

  155. ben, isn’t “new pennsylvania” one of the lost 57 states?

  156. ben carlson – Barack America “I’m In St. Louis” said that?

    LOL! What an idiot.

  157. Apparently, yesterday, Obama called the town of New Philadelphia, ‘New Pennsylvania.”

    Does Obama ever know where he is? St Louis, no make that Kansas City, 57 states, and on and on. The least he could do is ask someone in is campaign to carefully spell out the city, state or town he is speaking from. Could help the image.

  158. I’m still not voting for any damned Republican, but, while skeptical at first, I have to agree madamab–it was a master stroke.

    While the left blogosphere was so busy laughing at Palin’s “PTA President” and moose hunting credentials, they walked right into a trap. Have you noticed how the McCain people have engineered the discussion to be a comparison of Palin, not to Biden, but to Obama!

    While the back and forth ensues over which is better–PTA Prez or “community organizer”–McCain sits back as the left affirms with their silence that the qualifications of the top of the Republican ticket is NOT a point of discussion.

    It’s sad, but it’s funny, too–and it couldn’t happen to nicer people.

  159. ben, it’s strategic. I’m serious — we have to stop approaching politics anew, like a glistening newborn tadpole fresh from the egg, every four years. It’s like we wake up go, “There an election?” and then start noticing people every four years. We don’t link them together in any coherent strategy. We just treat each election as if it’s one individual thing that happens, disjoint from all the others, and that we just pick the one we like best (or hate least), every single time. It hasn’t gotten us anywhere.

    Well, it’s gotten us hanging on the edge is where it’s gotten us. We need to think in longer, more strategic terms. When you play chess, you move the pieces that are necessary to move to accomplish your objective. You don’t just keep moving the knights around because you like the horses best.

    McCain/Palin now will absolutely put the pants-wetting fear of GOD into the Democrats over women voters. Period. That’s what we need — absolutely without a shadow of a doubt. They need to fear us, or they will continue to do nothing and slide further and further to the right, leaving us and our bodies and lives behind.

    Then, in 2012, we have a party that will be far more willing to play ball with us, hand over major concessions, perhaps even start bringing our kids home and actually working to ensure our safe access to abortion instea of just letting it teeter and then point to it to scare us into toeing the line.

    We cannot vote Democrat this year. It’s got to be Republican, much as it’s galling to say. Like I’ve said before, McCain and Palin represent a leftward shift in the Republicans. Obama/Biden represent a MASSIVE, MASSIVE rightward shift — and where you’re standing doesn’t matter nearly as much as in what direction you’re moving. We cannot reward corruption and rigthwing movement. We must reward only transparency and leftward movement. Right now, that means the Republicans.

    Of course, the leftward movement won’t last. The minute McCain and Palin get in, their party will begin trying to shift things back slowly over time … and that’s when the fear comes into play. We demand the Dems give us a Clinton (if she’s game) as nominee in 2012, and if they’re scared of us enough, they’ll give her to us. We run her; since I doubt McCain and Palin will do a very good job (they won’t be catastrophic, but they won’t be so good that she can’t pound them), she’ll be able to get past them.

    We eigther cringe, act out of fear and powerlessness, and let ourselves slide hopelessly toward irrelevence and oblivion by voting for Obambi, and reward the party for its burial of us, or we make a strategic sacrifice for better times after `12. The way forward is NOT the way we’ve been taking.

  160. Janis, when younger, I lived in a small house that we heated with a woodstove. I chopped the wood. I had a 2 acres of garden,that I picked myself, and canned BUSHELS every year. I had two children under two years old, used cloth diapers, and did not own a clothes dryer. I did not own a television for the first 7 years of my kids lives.

    I would not want to live that way now – I think I outgrew it. But it was amazingly peaceful for several years, and I had some MUSCLES. I read a lot. My mind was in great shape as well.

    “Backwoods” is not a slur to me.

  161. More on getting even: If Obama is beat by a giiiirl, and not just beat, but field dressed, that’s the end of his career. Can you imagine how life will be for him in the senate after he loses. And how his reelection efforts will be. I want full revenge. Nothing less.

  162. Oh, and I can shoot a gun. Rattlesnakes.

  163. I read but don’t post much. I got hate from Huffposters for supporting Hillary (when I was allowed to post). I follow Joe Cannon and post something when I feel it adds something. Today though, the protesters getting charged with terrorism really freaked me out. I’m an old protester (SDS) and bucked “anyone over thirty”. To think that someone would get charged with terrorism instead of, I dunno, disorderly conduct or vandalism, just freaks me out. And I’m freaked out about what Sarah Palin stands for and what it would mean if that ticket wins. Nothing more, nothing less. I’m in California so it probably won’t matter if I sit out the vote here anyway.

    Someone up thread said that Gloria Steinem got it wrong. Not sure what that referred to. Didn’t Palin support the bridge to nowhere before she opposed it? Was that refuted here? Didn’t she support earmarks before she opposed them?

    Lastly, Sarah’s use of Hillary’s cracks to a glass ceiling still really bothers me. It’s glass in my eyes. Hillary did that, and it hurts to hear it from a Repub. ugh sorry y’all, I’m just not happy today at all.

  164. Janis, you make some great points. Thank you!

  165. madamab, on September 4th, 2008 at 5:30 pm Said:
    kjmontana – Hilarious, no?

    Actually, just GD irritating. It’s the scary tri-fecta:
    Roe v Wade…
    Rush Limbaugh…
    Hilllary won’t come back . . . . . . .

    Boogeymen, vampires and werewolves are everywhere and they are going to eat our brains and drink our blood if we don’t vote for The One!

  166. OMG Pat what did you do to Eddy? He just showed up mumbling something about you being mean to Hillary and Palin was his girl……………………..

    I think I deserve as explanation!

  167. kjmontana, I’m from the midwest. My believer relatives were looking at Obama quite sincerely except my oldest ‘pat robertson’ brother. Blogs linking to the Saddleback forum seemed favorable towards Obama. The religious right isn’t a solid block of voters. Some are tired of how Bush used them.

  168. “If McCain comes out in an orange suit, I think we’ll get the message.”

    Do you accept last night’s orange tie, or was that a fluke?

  169. Madamab, my life has taught me a few things, and one of them is that, when you are choosing an action frmo the part of your brain that’s going “please don’t hurt me, oh great, kind sir! I’m so powerless and have no choice woe is me!” it’s the wrong thing to do.

  170. Field dressing a weasel? I think that’s below Sarah’s pay grade>

  171. Shay – I absolutely do. I even put it in my post!

    Citizen K – Steinem is wrong on Palin’s pro-life views. She is actually quite liberal. She does believe in birth control and full sex education.

    She belongs to this group:

    Feminists for Life

    All right everyone, have a great evening. See you later on tonight when my hubby will be glued to the TV watching the Redskins! LOL

  172. Well, we will see if her self defined reformer tag sticks. it would seem however, that she is like a lot of pols who like and seek out federal pork.

    She hired lobbyists to get earmarks for the state

    Citizens Against Government Waste claims Palin this year (2008) asked for $300/person in different federal earmarks. Average nationwide is just $34/person.

    Bridge to Nowhere was stopped, but the money stayed according to CBS News.

    (Full disclosure: not voting for either of the major party candidates, but for a third party which will remain nameless due to RD’s request).

  173. I don’t look to celebs to point the way for me, but it does ruin watching anything with them in it. I loved Will Smith, but it’s dimmed a lot since his O-love, and watching his movies ain’t so fun no more!

    Shallow? I don’t think so!

    By the way, Jerry Springer was on at Question Time over here on the BBC, and he said Hillary should have been the nominee. Nice to hear, and a shock too, since the O-love seemed to have overtaken the world.

    Hopefully, it’ll be all a-changing. Watched the Sarah speak, me in London, my mum in Canada, and we agreed – McCain/Palin will win. Or they should, barring any corruption from the DNC.

    And we said Hillary will win too back in the day, barring something bizarre and unforeseen – so here’s praying the DNC carries on imploding.

    Agree with you all that say a Hillary v. Sarah in 2012 will be something to look forward to. I doubt Hillary’s afraid. If anything, she’s chomping at the bit. Don’t know much about Sarah, but from what I saw last night and from her record, she’ll be just as eager too.

    And it could one of the cleanest races ever seen too, which would be novel, concentrating on issues even.

    And Rudy and Sarah should write a book, The Brutality of Truth. Loved them last night 🙂

  174. But this is exactly what the DNC and its minions have reduced us to. Tuning into Fox News for a “semblance of balance” since they did not bash Hillary in the same manner as MSNBC and CNN. And by her own fellow Democrats. Hoping Hannity provides a bombshell by way of taking Obama down. Deleting our own stand by blogs that we once looked to with pride and for guidance. Canceling mainstream periodicals since the slant was wholly Obama. We have even seen days where we quote Rush Limbaugh of all people!

    Our own party dissed us. They “murdered” the campaign of the best politician to come across the threshold in years in favor of one who has less experience than the newly named VP of the opposition.

    They ridiculed and laughed at us like and it became a sport. We watched our votes stolen from us by party hacks who were willing to break every rule imaginable, along with creating new ones, in favor of this one unqualified candidate and for what?

    They could have had the filet mignon of the party but instead fed us dry toast and told us to like it. No way. My objective is the ruin of the DNC whatever that takes. In the meantime, I sullenly go back to Fox. Propaganda, yes, but less bashing of the best candidate ever to apply for the job.

  175. LOL, So you did. Sorry madamab…I mostly come here to read the comments section

  176. madamab, thank you for the clarifications. (BTW: Go Redskins!)

  177. UpstateNY, I can’t tell you how to vote, but I can recount the facts as I see them. Madamab is right that it is all about the electoral votes.

    My question for you is this: Do you want to spank Obama or do you want him to win? If you really want Hillary back in control of the Democratic party, then Obama’s got to lose–badly. If it is a squeaker, he will be back next time.

    Look, my cards are on the table. I am a conservative Republican. My goal is to defeat Obama. Right now we happen to be on the same side.

    Sarah Palin is the greatest thing to happen to the Republican party in 30 years. McCain is pandering to you. And he is also pandering to us. The conservatives in the party wanted Fred Thompson. We remember McCain undercutting Bill Frist, sponsoring the amnesty bill, authoring McCain-Feingold, etc. McCain is not a conservative and he isn’t fooling anyone. But at least he is not an empty suit. And he is a man of integrity.

  178. Carol: Eddy is down there again????

  179. From Akron Beacon Journal:

    Pledges to create jobs

    Obama also pledged to create about 2 million jobs in Ohio and across the country through the rebuilding of roads and bridges.

    Obama said the country is spending $10 billion a month in Iraq. ”I think we should spend that money here — in New Pennsylvania,” he said, misstating the name of the city where he was speaking.

    A woman in the audience asked him how he can assure the election will not be ”rigged or stolen,” echoing fears left from problems with the 2004 presidential election in Ohio.

    ”It helps that, in Ohio, the Democrats are in charge of the machines,” Obama said, alluding to Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, a Democrat.

    Obama said voter fraud and intimidation should be aggressively investigated and paper trails are needed to monitor electronic results.

    Ohio GOP upset

    His comment about Brunner led to a terse news release from the Ohio Republican Party, accusing him of ”an endorsement of vote rigging.”

    ”That may be how you win elections back in Chicago, but Ohioans tend to frown upon the idea of massive voter fraud,” Ohio GOP Chairman Bob Bennett said in the release.

  180. I agree with Janis completely. This election is strategically very important for women. We have the opportunity to exercise real power if we stick together. But if Obama is elected, it will prove that our vote is irrelevant. Our demands will fall on deaf ears. If McCain wins, it will show that women are a powerful group and that we are ignored at their great peril. I think it is the only way to get back our party.

  181. Uh oh My husband just told me he heard that a repub (Lynn Westmoreland?) called Obama “uppity” today. I see he’s a congressional rep from GA.

    Oh, yes, this is going to get very nasty.

  182. ”That may be how you win elections back in Chicago, but Ohioans tend to frown upon the idea of massive voter fraud,” Ohio GOP Chairman Bob Bennett said in the release.

    It’s a good thing I wasn’t eating or drinking when I read that.


  183. Well, I’m playing “undecided but leaning” in the work place. It gets me a lot attention.

  184. arkachips, I look forward to that election because I look forward to talking about an election with a “girl” in it where I can at least be comfortable knowing that, if one or the other of my brothers doesn’t like a “girl,” it may just be because of her stance on the issues, and NOT because of her genitals. And the same with other men as well. They will be FORCED to consider a woman — because there will be two women — based on issues alone. No bullshit. Palin’s service now while her family’s young will even neutralize that old canard. “She’s got KIDS!” Yes, she’s had them for a while now and done fine. Next?

    It’ll be like nothing I’ve ever experienced before if I can watch people being forced to consider women candidates based on nothing but their issues, where one can’t plausibly be hamstrung over the other — at least not in that “more in sorrow than in anger” horseshit tone of voice. 🙂

  185. Yup. If Obama wins, after stomping on women, then I honestly WILL NOT CARE about choice, because I will not be taken seriously politically for decades to come. I will be able to have an abortion (maybe, no guarantee), but not a job too high for me, not respect, not the right to be spoken of with common decency on our national airwaves.

    THAT is what a vote for Obama will do. Make us powerless in the long long future. I will vote for Beelzebub before I will let that happen.

  186. WMCB: Yep!

  187. What about McCain’s daughter? From Mother Theresa’s orphanage to the daughter of the president of the United States. There are so many stories in this election.

    And then there’s Levi “I just wanted to get laid’ Johnston who found out the hard way what happens when you have sex with the wrong girl.

  188. I am still not over Hillary losing the nomination. I am voting for Mccain out of spite for Obama and don’t care if they (Mccain and Palin) are against women’s rights, trashing the environment, etc.

  189. McCain is pandering to you.

    Well, the Democrats can pander to me, too. In fact, it’s lnog past time they started trying.

    They really, really sound like slimy guys at the party who try to scam their way into your pants, and when you dance with someone else, they go, “Man, that’s so not fair! She’s just falling for his bullshit!” Instead of yours? (Yours == DNC, of course.)

    We need to make sure that they are so scared that they don’t slide into insanity and stay there, though — the typical reaction of Leisure Suit Larry upon losing out to the other guy is to conclude that wimminz iz all just bitchez, and it just proces you have to be an asshole to get chix, an-an-an …

    Why do we persist in this nonsense thinking that we have to be friends with the party to get what we want out of them? Loyalty in voters is NOT REWARDED. In politicians, yes. In voters? Loyalty is PUNISHED. It’s the waverers who get what they want, every time.

  190. When we ascribe the word oracle to the likes of Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough, you know we have slipped the moorings! At least they saw this thing for what it really was: a total and complete scam. We should thank them for staying the course with us. Much appreciated.

  191. Demi, the other guys are against women’s rights and the environment, too — they just are lying to you that they aren’t. Believe it. We are allowed to realize that they’re lying to us — we’re not REQUIRED to pretend they’re telling us the truth when we know they aren’t.

    Men or women DO NOT spin from that level of frothing, gynocidal woman-hatred and then become advocates for women’s rights. Men and women who would encourage the public political honor killing of a great public servant DO NOT wake up the next day filled with loving concern for Mother Earth. They DO NOT wake up the next day eager to find a nonviolent way to resolve the world’s diplomatic differences.

    Elect savage gynodical assholes and sellouts, and they will ACT like savage, gynocidal assholes and sellouts.

  192. Loyalty is PUNISHED. It’s the waverers who get what they want, every time.


  193. The tone on this site today so fits my mood of the day. I was actually joyful last night as I watched Palin and today I am just sad. I think we all share that sense of grief at HRC’s loss that was not a loss. We know there is no way we can support or vote for Obama. The reality is that either Obama will win this or McCain will. There is no third party candidate that comes even close to breaking the two party lock. So for me it comes to this: if one of these two will occupy the Whitehouse, who do I want it to be. Obama is just not an option. Anyone who would use the tactics he has used and has the political record he has is unacceptable to me—and it’s not about his inexperience. I can forgive and forget inexperience and thin resume. I can not forgive fraud, abuse, the finger and the real record of promising and never delivering. McCain? The default candidate? Yes, I can do it. To not vote at all or to leave the presidential spot vacant is for me to fail in my duty to make a decision. Palin? I like her as a person; I like her family. She is not an ideologue even if she and I would not agree on tons of issues. McCain has said he only wants 4 years and I think he may just stick to that. That’s 4 years for the political scene to sort itself out. I don’t think McCain will get us into deeper water. He will have a congress that will stand up to him in ways the Democrats would never stand up to GWB. He will compromise because he wants to get things done and he is at that stage of life when one’s legacy and history begin to have a deep importance (I am there myself so I know this a little.) Supremes? We could get through 4 years without any appointments. We could not but McCain will have to deal and he will—who put together the gang of 16 to avoid the nuclear option. It won’t be so bad but it’s like having to sell the house, the furniture and the pets and move to a strange place because of a big family loss. It just hurts damnit.

  194. The conservatives in the party wanted Fred Thompson. We remember McCain undercutting Bill Frist, sponsoring the amnesty bill, authoring McCain-Feingold, etc.

    If Republicans had put up any other candidate, particularly one obsessed with “illegal immigration,” they’d have been crushed.

    BTW, is it true that Rudy, Johnny and Fred are all CFR? Still preferable to the Senator from $oros, though.

  195. Janis: Agree with everything you said. I can’t wait.

    A few good things happened from this joke of a Dem race, not least being the many people Hillary won over. I know a few men, quite unwilling at the beginning to even contemplate her as President, who are now die-hard for her, impressed beyond belief by her strength through all this and her scary-smart intelligence.

    One even said he couldn’t understand why Bill’s eyes ever strayed – and this coming from a guy who mocked her age before, agreeing with whoever that idiot it was on tv that said something about watching Hillary age every day.

    She’s won a lot of hearts, and hopefully, four years will only mean more time for her to win more of them.

    Another good thing, women’s rights. Puma et al has been the ‘silent’ civil revolution to shake it all up, and no matter how many are still unaware, the effect it has had in such a short space of time is amazing. History has been made, even if the wider world may still be relatively ignorant of it.

    You’ll be in history books, studied in classes – how does that feel? *g*

    It’s been wonderful to see it happen.

  196. Well said, Jangles re the mood today. Maybe something will change in the next couple of months. I doubt it.

    I saw this funny bumper sticker:

    Vote 2008
    “Why choose a lesser evil”

    It’s a character from H.P. Lovecraft often know as the extreme Evil. haha

  197. Re: Palin’s speech. I loved how Palin used the word “followers” to describe Obama’s supporters.

  198. On the protesters: I thought the police were fine with the peaceful marchers. They arrested the ones breaking windows and destroying property. I’m sorry but I do not condone anarchy or feel any sympathy for them. Under the new rules of the Patriot Act I believe the charge of terrorism is now legally valid in that the violence was part of an operation to violently disrupt the government. It will probably make an interesting court case but the reality is that the charges will probably be reduced. They always begin with throwing the book at people doing violence. I’m sorry but those random acts of violence had the capacity to hurt innocent people and bystanders. The violence phase of the Vietnam protests lost Democrats a generation of governance. Maybe that was a good thing or not. I used to be sad about that too. I have really lost faith in this party.

  199. You know when you think about it PUMAs, if McCain wins then I think PUMAs can count coup and say we took a stand and we put a woman a heart beat from the presidency. Maybe wasn’t our first choice but she is OK and she would never be there if it were not for us.

  200. Palin and the “reformer” narrative

  201. Citizen K:

    While I’ll disagree they should be charged as terrorists, I have no problem with charges of trying to incite a riot. It is something this group is absolutely famous for (starting in 2004). They dropped 90 lb. bags of cement off of overpasses and one landed on a delegate bus, sprayed bleach in the eyes of an old man getting off a delegate bus, they rolled trashcans set on fire into police cars and traffic, some of this can be found at this link, which will link to other reports.


    As for the Patriot Act, I absolutely oppose it, as well as the RICO Act. I will agree that Bush/Cheney has violated many Constitutional rights. I for one am glad for term limits.

  202. Janis and Jangles: If McCain wins, do you think we might have better chance of influencing the policies of the RNC or DNC? I agree that the Repubs are strange bedfellows–but I have been wondering which party is more likely to listen and want to continue to earn our votes.

  203. fuzzy is home! to find his email full of obama schill Poofie has ben busy here is my response-Its ment as humor….

    Mr. Plouffe

    I am sorry I will be unable to support any donating of my hard earned money to DNC/Obama for Amerika. I believe that support should be withheld from the DNC until a few of our PUMA demands are met. First the immediate resignation of Howard Dean as Chairperson of the DNC, look it is going to happen anyway after Senator Obama loses on November 4th, so why waste valuable time after the election, and replace him with Harold Ickes as chairman.

    Next we need to remove Donna Brazile from all committee appointments and membership in the DNC, we will allow her to remain a member of the party that is all, she is the one who brought us Mondale, Dukakis, Kerry, and Obama what a bunch of losers we don’t need her input anymore!

    Now we need to remove all super-delegates from the DNC that supported Barak Obama Before 31 May 2008, the only exception is Hillary Clinton super-delegates that that switched to Obama between March 4th and May 31st, they will be allowed to remain but on 5 year probation without any committee assignments. All Obama supporters who hold offices in congress and the Senate will be prohibited from super-delegate status for 12 years.

    After Obama’s big loss on November 5th the DNC will recognize PUMA as its official watchdog committee. I want to see full commitment of all parts of the DNC to nomination reform. I also want the DNC to embrace the Committee to Draft Hillary Clinton for President 2012 and give it its full financial and media support.

    The DNC will ensure that in 2010 Barak Obama will have a viable well financed opponent in the democratic primary. After his loss in 2008 justice demands it as punishment for dividing the party. He will be banned for life from having any sustentative roll in the party’s decision making process.

    The DNC will apologize in writing and in on air media for its callous treatment of Hillary Clinton and her 18,000,000 supporters. Every paid member of Obama for Amerika will also provide a written apology to the same effect.

    As you can see I and my compatriots have a lot of house cleaning after the mess you have made of the party in this election, we just want to make sure no one gets in our way.

    Look you know it is coming and we just want to ensure that it is done quickly and with the lease amount of disruption for 2010 and 2012 are going to be less than two and four years away.

    Michael P Varvel
    Co-Chair Committee to Draft Hillary Clinton for President 2012
    Co-Chair of the voting rights sub-committee/ Committee to Draft Hillary Clinton for President 2012
    Member of the sub-committee on reform of the RBC and Nomination Process/Committee to Draft Hillary Clinton for President 2012

    now on to a what I am sure is an exciting Email from “the one!


  204. Have you all heard that ActBlue has de-listed the Denver Group because they’re working against Obama?

  205. If you think the “party” machine listens, think again. It is individual candidates who listen. Republicans almost did not have my vote this election. I can think of several had they won, I may have cast my vote for Hillary, or just skipped the top ticket. John McCain listens to the voters(he changed his tune about amnesty, but isn’t giving up on some sort of reasonable reform), he’s gone against his party more than once; Hillary would have listened to all all voters – I honestly believe that. Huckabee/Guiliani, they would not have listened/wouldn’t have cared; I highly doubt Obama will care about the voters if he takes office – he’ll tell them to get over it.

    But the party machinery itself really doesn’t care. They have a trick to pull out of their hat for every contingency to make things go their way. The DNC did it to you, and the RNC did it us:

  206. I have ONE THING TO SAY:



  207. PureCecilia, most likely the DNC, and only because their heads will still be ringing from the smackdown we give them. The point of this is to scare them until they realize they’d damned well better start giving us what we want (stronger protections for abortion, childcare, etc. etc.).

    We will have no traction whatsoever with them until they know we can go elsewhere and will do so. Why do you think the Republican women were so eager to step forward and defend one of their own, and the Dems didn’t even bother? If they think we have nowhere else to go, and if we let ourselves get railroaded into sniffling and wringing our hankies and agreeing with them OH WOEZ IZ US, they will continue to throw us to the wolves when they feel it’s convenient.

    It’s only when they find out that we can crush them into atomic powder that they’ll start giving us what we want. They won’t LIKE us. We won’t be NICE. We won’t be FRIENDS with them. But we’ll get what we want out of them.

    I remember a friend of mine — Alaska JD friend actually — writing an article online about how to negotiate the price for a car. She said, “You have to be willing to walk away. You have to be willing to drive off that lot in your new car with all of the salesmen looking at your back bumper thinking, ‘Bitch.'”

  208. I had a man say to me today that selection of Palin was an insult to all women! Ugh.

    I then told him I am happy to be pandered to over and over again.

  209. Well, c’mon. Do you really expect the RNC to put Ron Paul on the speaker’s list? How does he help the ticket? TV time is precious and it is too bad they wasted the first day on Hurricane Gustav. Nice comeback, though.

  210. ben, that sounds to me like a bitter guy who got thrown over for a rival saying, “He’s just trying to get into your pants, you know!”

    Shitstains. I can’t WAIT to vote for McCain/Palin.

  211. The Republicans would lose too much of their base chasing after our votes. It’s not worth the trade-off to them. They don’t need us, and it’s too risky to try and get us. The Democrats absolutely depend on our votes.

    Of course, common sense means little to hubris-ridden morons.

  212. Agreed. The whole point of this exercise is to smack the Dems so hard that they cough up for us.

  213. OMG, can’t we get rid of these obots like Citizen K and the others mascerading as PUMA. These people are annoying.

    Your arguments are crap and not fooling anyone. Go Away.

  214. Vote for OBAMA, make the presidency, meaningless. and secretly a parliamentarian system.

  215. madamab, I’m getting different information from my women’s group on Feminists for Life. They don’t believe in choice, and “refuse to choose” is a common slogan found on their site. Check out this opinion:

  216. Anyone working on a new thread?

  217. Janis: Good point about demonstrating our value. I don’t really care about being liked (I taught middle school!), but I worry the DNC won’t see our worth without the “like-ability” factor.

  218. Obama is flailing for a lfieraft. First he went on O’Reilly and said that the surge had succeeded “beyond our wildest dreams”.

    Now he is announcing that he might *gasp* pursue criminal charges against the Bush Administration!

    He is panicking in two directions at once. Does ANYONE believe a word out of his mouth?

  219. Seriously, I think the Republicans do need us. Their numbers are down this election by a sizable amount. In addition did you notice how few R turned out to vote in the primaries. I agree with all who said Palin was chosen to shore up McCain’s own base, but I do think the R need us this year.

  220. Obama is in trouble because he doesn’t have another BIG event like his speech. He depended on winning those little states and then giving a BIG speech. All he has left is debating McCain three times. They must be thinking, “Is that all there is?”

  221. WMCB

    Obama will say anything to get elected. Only the truly deluded think his word is worth anything.

  222. I can’t wait for the Debates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  223. Ohio, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Pennsylvania, OHIO, OHIO, OHIO

  224. sorry about long letter above he’s the one I sent to Obambi-maybe if I work real hard they will let me write for Sarah?

    Senator Obama

    With all due respect, “What the F*ck are you talking about”? Are you back on the crack again maybe mixing in some K and Tina?

    I heard a woman defend herself from the petty attacks that you and you slime bag Obama-bots leveled at her lies and innuendo! I heard Rudy the Rock (not one of my favs) finally vet you it was a breath of fresh air. Look someone should have taken you to task for your thin resume and your hateful campaign.

    You are not ready to lead this country-you would be a disaster to the Democratic Brand! If you were smart you would go on national TV and apologize for everything you did to Senator Clinton from you nasty attacks and you’re shooting her the bird. You sir are pond scum.

    I am sorry last night I saw a cool and focused woman remove both your and Biden’s heads and then proceed to fill your windpipes with fecal matter. In my opinion it was long overdue. I am not sorry the removed both you and Biden’s testicles so expertly that you did not know they were missing until the next day when you were on camera and I saw you reach for them. Looks like you are going to be a few swimmers short.

    Hey don’t worry Mr. Obama I think you can still get a gig as a street organizer after you lose your senate seat in 2010. Maybe this time you can do the job right.

    Michael P Varvel

    Co-Chair Committee to Draft Hillary Clinton for President 2012
    Co-Chair of the voting rights sub-committee/ Committee to Draft Hillary Clinton for President 2012
    Member of the sub-committee on reform of the RBC and Nomination Process/ Committee to Draft Hillary Clinton for President 2012

  225. I just love it when the talking heads get on tv and say that we will all come home on November like they really know what goes on in our heads. No way, no how. As much as I despise Obama, my beef is with the DNC all the way. A vote for him is a vote for them. Somehow, under both parties and the disregard they show the voters, I fear we are traveling down the road to an eventual police state.

    If what we saw this year could actually happen under the eyes of the press and still be overlooked, it won’t be long before all candidates will be chosen by a single group, a sham election held, and the votes tallied to appear unanimous. Welcome to Cuba, Iraq and Korea. Now just go about your business, we’ve got it all figured out for you.

  226. Seems outrage dislodged some secrets in B0’s narratives. The so called “community organizing” was a pay job for some churches?

  227. It’s official…Palin’s pitbull lipstick joke is SEXIST…..Just heard it on CNN…or was it MSNBC????

  228. PureCecilia, we won’t be valued UNTIL we jettison our desire to be “liked.” They will value us when they realize we can walk away. ANY woman who’s left a crappy, abusive, neglectful relationship will tell you that. As long as our party knows we will vote for them no matter what, they have no reason to give us anything.

    WMCB, I’m sure he said that he was “firmly considering the possibility of someday at an unspiecified point in the future, with boldness and conviction, stemming from my deep faith in God instilled in me by a pastor other than Jeremiah Wright, the remote possibility of criminal chanrges against this administration.”

    Yes, we can indeed, dearie.

  229. gottas do laundry!


  230. he also told o’reilly that he wouldn’t rule out invading Iran.

  231. Dave: No, no, no. I must have put the wrong link. Our state convention was shut down, the lights and the AV were turned off. Our state chair was probably directed by the RNC to do so, they didn’t want our state being RP (it would have been, they knew the game). They then “appointed” a slate of delegates. After a rogue convention, a lawsuit, an appeal to the RNC the RNC stated our state party leaders are inept, seated 4 RP delagates, etc.

    Now the RP delegates are being bashed by their own because they chose to make nice and make it a unanimous nomination.

    I have seen more tricks be pulled out of the hat to shut delegates out in both conventions.

    It is the people who determine the popular vote, but it is the party machine, doesn’t matter which, that truly controls the “selection” of the nominee.

  232. he also told o’reilly that he wouldn’t rule out invading Iran.

    What a scumbucket.

  233. The woman had to say something and she ad libbed a great joke. A woman can ‘t win for losing in this country.

  234. Janis You Rock .. !! You are a Fighter .. !!!

    Listen , .. I am PUMA .. I think I am mixed up .. I thought our goal was to defeat Obama — short term goal .

    Long term goals — Take our party back .. Do I have this wrong ?? Straighten out caucus stuff .. etc..

    I am voting for McCain/Palin . Now to be honest , I am in a ‘for sure’ blue state .. also , to be honest , if I wasn’t in a blue state .. and still PUMA .. I would still have to vote repub. as that is where it counts – if our goal is /was ‘stop obama ..

    wow .. there I said it .. first time republican voter ever , first time donated money to repub. .. ever .. Damn right .. !! .. I can change to .. I’m not stuck.

    Country before Party .. Always .. thanks again Janis – you an your friend are inspiring ..

    the democratic party turned into something I am not familiar with .. I want them punished . Then I want to take it back home to being the Party of ALL the People .

  235. Janis: So the “Love Train” song at the Dem Convention should have been “These boots were made for walkin'”!

  236. {{{Briana}}} {{{Janis}}}

    gotta go do the laundry!


  237. Go Plaxico Burres! I need some TDs and some good yardage.

  238. Ahhh at 8pm Eastern (5pm Pacific) the annoited one is going to be interviewed by Bill “I didn’t grope her” O Rielly on Fauxnews…….should be fun….

  239. Um, if only it had actually happened that way. Ever heard of Snopes, dipwad?

    And of COURSE you’re good with evangelical nutcases. You have to be if you’re voting Obama. He surrounds himself with them.

    sorry, but insane, unhinged slavish worship and devotion to a savior and refusal to admit the possibility of mistake is evangelical behavior, whether it’s Gawd or Barky.

  240. Obama said he would invade Iran? with what toothpicks? he’s gonna gut the military to pay back all his supporters in congress with earmarks-


  241. How is Sarah Palin an insult to all women? I don’t understand that at all.

    Gloria Steinim is a hyprocrite. To head the women’s movement and then trash Sarah, a female with a serious shot at being the first VP is beyond insulting.

    You would think that Gloria, if she were true to her word, would be out fighting for Sarah no matter her political affiliation.

  242. Clean up or edit at 7:25 please.

  243. ben, it just shows how little these assholes know about sexism. Guess what dipshit? Women actually DO wear lipstick. they’re not so much pissed off about that as that you guys are constantly trying to control THEIR bodies and make them do all the shit work for less money….

  244. So he says the surge has worked beyond all expectations and we should maybe invade Iran?

    Good thing he didn’t trick people into voting for him based on his non-existant anti-war cred.

  245. 48, I have decided the major feminist organizations are about classism and Ideology, not WOMEN.

    Ya know, NOW could make the point that they strongly disagree on choice, but applaud her historic run and her courage, yadayada.

    Nope. Went straight for the “How DARE you have a vagina and disagree with us, you poor excuse for a woman!” line. Sorry, but the woman is a very accomplished sitting Governor, and Gloria is full of shit.

  246. pat, what has palin done to control other women’s bodies, and be specific. Being opposed to abortion just doesn’t cut it. what has she actually DONE to another woman to control her body?


    Items Description: The DONC! Yes, it’s a failed leadership and ineffective bunch of incoherent political hacks, but hey — the price is right! Absolutely FREE! In fact we’ll even ship them to you for free. Here’s what you get when you take the DONC off our hands:

    Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Donna Brazile, Joe Biden, AND Barack Obama! The DO-NOTHING Congress is also included at no extra charge. Heck, we’ll even throw in Markos Moulitsas and the Daily KOS as a special incentive, but watch out! his bite is vicious and has been known to transmit disease.

    Take our “leaders” home today — Please!


  248. Janis–thanks! You DO rock!

  249. I have CBS on – here is what they covered tonight.
    (I think it is Inside Edition. )

    1) Showed film from Alaska state championship girls basketball game when Sarah played with a stress fracture and hit the winning freethrow.
    2) Cindy McCain’s earrings that she wore Tuesday night cost $280,000 (maybe)
    3) They interviewed the woman who played Maggie in Northern Exposure. She is a big Gov Palin fan and a Republican. She wants to meet Sarah.
    4) Sarah has started a new fashion trend – glasses.
    5) Levi has Britol’s name tattooed on his ring finger.

    Guess Sarah Palin is newsworthy.

  250. NH, my point exactly. The Republicans cannot win without the PUMAs.
    The beauty of the Palin pick is that it shores up his support with women and conservatives both. If he had gone with Lieberman–who was his first choice–it would have caused a riot on the convention floor and the conservatives would have stayed home. If he had gone with Romney the women would have stayed home. Now we both have a reason to support the ticket.

    Obama is praising the surge now?!? Has he completely lost his mind? The hawks were never going to vote for him anyway! Looks like total meltdown may be imminent!

    This election cycle is the most fun in years! Feminists asking who will take care of Palin’s kids when she’s working and criticizing her hair, the “peace candidate” praising a military escalation, Bill Clinton called a racist, Rev. Wright and Bill Ayres thrown under the bus along with Obama’s grandmother, Superbowl-like ratings for political conventions, Obama as Julius Caesar in the Styrofoam Forum, Rush Limbaugh telling Republicans to cross over and vote for Hillary Clinton, Ron Paul, Gloria Steinem backing Obama (?!??), a female VP candidate (on the Republican side!) who knows how to fire an AR15–what’s next?

    I can’t wait for the debates either. I want to see Sarah Palin make Biden look like the fool that he is and I want to see Obama take on McCain without a script.

    Make some popcorn and enjoy the show!

  251. pat, no future “probabilities” don’t count. jeez, what fantasy world do you live in? and pat, I said to be specific, what policies are you talking about? Belief, as I said doesn’t cut it. One can believe that abortion is wrong but still not interfere with other women’s bodies. Your lack of an argument shows how pitiful you guys are at even trying to win this argument. Doesn’t surpise me that a bunch of 20 something year old men wouldn’t know the first thing about women…

  252. Pat, I thought you adored Palin because she’s a self made person, unlike Obama who depended on Emil Jones, Tony Rezko, and Blaggo to get where he is and Hillary who according to you depended on Bill Clinton. Don’t tell me you find fault with her now! Gosh.

  253. actually the whole “future” argument is the exact argument Bush uses to continue the unending occupation of Iraq. No surprise ,you guys are using his playbook anyway.

  254. LMAO! They are playing “Barracuda” at the RNC!

  255. Gary – It’s a “horizon.” It’s always receding….and never achieved.

  256. Pat – Obama thinks that the decision to have an abortion is a moral decision. I thought it was a personal decision and moral might be in the equation, or might not – it depends on the woman.

    Obama also thinks that women should make the decision after consulting with her pastor, her doctor and her family. I took that to mean that women without a pastor can not have an abortion. The family part was even more disturbing. I understood that to mean that if a woman already has a child of any age that child must sign off on the decision as well.

    Obama has a couple of other weird beliefs about abortion rights but right now I can’t remember them. I have tried to forget.

  257. WMCB, all that talk I made about Freddie Mercury and it’s the Almighty Ann whose voice is carrying her!

  258. Seriously – I’m not the only one confused this year, am I? I admire Palin for having built her political career on her own, yes that is true. I don’t admire her conservatism or the direction I believe she would take the country.

  259. Any woman who did not recognize and object to the treatment of Hillary Clinton by both the MSM and the democratic party I have absolutely no respect for. Period.
    Any argument in favor of Obama that begins with SCOTUS has no merit. Why would I trust him NOW to protect my rights as a woman? The democrats no longer have any claim to a woman’s vote after the treatment of Hillary. None.

  260. Obama has a couple of other weird beliefs about abortion rights but right now I can’t remember them. I have tried to forget.

    The ambiguity of Obama’s positions is intentional. It’s also why I think Obama has the potential to do more damage than McCain. People who don’t show their true colors are not people I trust. I can trust McCain to do stupid things and an occassional good thing. I can’t trust Obama to do anything good at this point.

  261. When does Mc talk? 9-10 ET?

  262. Pat

    Sarah Palin can’t take the country anywhere. Geez. John McCain will set the agenda along with Joe Lieberman, Lindsey Graham, Meg Whitman.

  263. Obama thinks I should talk to my husband or pastor before having an abortion.

    Interesting how apparently, only married, Christian women get pregnant, eh?


  264. Gary, if she’s anti-choice, I can definitely find fault with her there. But WHAT ACTION WILL CAUSE CHOICE TO BECOME MORE SECURE FOR WOMEN AND WHAT ACTION WIL NOT?!

    Seriously — we need to stop looking at the CHESS PIECSE and start looking at thE CHESS GAME.

    A vote for Barky will cause choice to become LESS SECURE. In the end, after the Dems learn that they have to play ball with us or else, a vote for McCain/Palin will, in the long run, cause choice to become MORE SECURE.

    We really really really REALLY REALLY REALLY need to STOP this nonsense of voting for people. We vote for RESULTS. I’m serious — when you play chess, yuo don’t keep moving the knights because you like horsies. You reach for and move whatever piece necessary, no matter how you “feel” about it or whether you “like” it, to WIN THE GODDAMNED GAME.

  265. I’m just wasting everyone’s time with my ramblings.

    [edited for truth and brevity]

  266. “Sarah Palin can’t take the country anywhere.”

    We’ll see about that…

  267. Obama would be much more dangerous than McCain/ Palin
    They will spend the next four years cleaning up Bush’s mess.
    I don’t think Obama has any values or beliefs. He goes whichever way the political wind blows and does not hesitate to throw anyone under the bus, including the white grandmother who raised him while Ann was out “finding” herself. Giuliani was right about Biden getting things in writing.

  268. How can women allow themselves to be held hostage over Roe v Wade? It is more than past time that women stopped being victims, stopped being manipulated but this one issue only.

    Probably a good half of American women share views similar to Sarah’s. Does believing that life begins at conception make them monsters?

    What would happen if R v W were overturned? This is 2008, women make up more than half of the electorate. Something tells me that the women young enough to be affected by this decision would not stand for it.

    Women cannot continue to be tethered to the democratic party for a singular issue.

  269. I’m astonished. I wouldn’t have thought that your deep moral objections to the non-self made could be overcome–Oh, Pat. I’m broken hearted. I wnated so much to believe in you. Is it because Bill Clinton ain’t no Richie Daley? Can you just tell by his pretty, pretty genitals that he would have made it just the same on his own if he had to?

  270. UpstateNY,

    Who could ever hate you? Are you fishing for compliments?

  271. Hi all. Can anyone stomatch the O’Reilly interview with Precious to report back to us? It’s on Fox now. I can’t go there…

  272. Great post, madamab. I don’t know what will happen in the future, but I have a feeling that Hillary will make some noise, either in the Senate or in higher office.

    I hear that Obama is going to be on O’Reilly tonight. That should be interesting. Starting soon.

  273. Actually, I beleive that’s just what the judge who handed over the sealed Jeri Ryan divorce records said. “This won’t affect the outcome, you did it all on your own, baby.”

  274. Upstate: I think Mac is supposed to be on at 10 EST.

  275. Half the Republican party is pro-choice. And for half of the rest, the objection to Roe v. Wade is not that it legalized abortion–it is that the Supreme Court took it upon itself to make law as an unelected board of dictators. That is the job of the states and the Congress, in our opinion.

    Abortion will never be illegal in the USA. This issue has been used to manipulate women voters for 35 years now.

  276. 48, when those women start trying to keep ME unable to abort a pregnancy in MY body that I dont’ want then you’re damned right I have a problem with them.

    It’s a desire to ensure that abortion is secure that makes me willing to vote for McCain/Palin, along with other things. We will not get a thing out of the Dems if we don’t send a strong, clear message to them that we can go elsewhere. If we make sure they know we can throw an election to the other side, you can bet your ass they’ll begin shoring up Roe in a big hurry.

    That’s how we got the vote. We threatened to throw an election. It worked. It always works.

  277. BB: Are you going to watch O’Reilly? Can you give us some impressions? I hope Bill doesn’t suddenly decide to be gracious and fair.

  278. Nah, BB. I know you like me, you really, really like me…..yeah, right…

    Yes, H will continue working for what she believes in. I have great admiration for her.

  279. 48 –

    How can women allow themselves to be held hostage over Roe v Wade? It is more than past time that women stopped being victims, stopped being manipulated but this one issue only.

    You’re absolutely right. No one will get my vote any more unless they do something to advance the cause of women.

    McCain has put his cards on the table. Women – okay with him.

    What has the Democratic Party done for me lately? Where’s my ERA? Why am I still making 70% of what a man makes at work? Why don’t I have child care and other work-life balance benefits?

    Yes, Democrats and Republicans, we’re awake now. F*ck with us at your peril!

  280. Thanks fif.

  281. Oh, Pat–Mcain isn’t even in yet and already your tale of persecution is pitiful. Is the stifling of your independent talking points the point at which you signed up for rent-a-troll?

  282. So we have some new “old” songs to serenade the DNC:
    Ann Wilson’s ” Baracuda” with her lyrics– “you’re gonna burn, burn, burn it to the wick…”and Nancy Sinatra’s “These boots are made for walkin”

  283. Let’s not forget though, that I’m not “making” myself a victim by requiring abortion rights anymore than I’m “making” myself a victim by requiring oxygen.

    It’s not “making” myself anything. I have a uterus, I can be impregnated against my will, and can die in childbirth or have my body permanently altered by it, along with my life. Acknowledging these facts is not the same as “making” a victim of myself anymore than saying I need a safe workplace because I can be killed by falling masonry.

    And it’s GETTING that safety that makes me willing to kick the Democraps in the teeth so hard that their heads ring for a year unless they guarantee it to me NOW.

  284. Actually, over 30% of the DELEGATES to McCain’s RNC this year are pro-civil unions as well. Didja know that?

    We have spent a lot of time and wasted a lot of breath demonizing every single living breathing Republican as Jesse Helms in disguise. Yeah, these people can change, and they can be pushed.

    I am NOT giving up my Democratic ideals, or being deceived. Nor am I going to become a Republican. But damn, if I can take down Barky, set Hillary up for a 2012 run, punish the DNC, make the voice of women respected, AND reward the Repubs for shifting a little left-er for the future, all with one little vote – WHY WOULDN’T I???

    Like Janis said, it’s chess, baby.

  285. Seriously – LOL!

    Whenever someone starts complaining about being stifled here, you know it’s a troll. It’s a massive “tell.”

  286. I was included in a meeting with Patricia Schroeder in the early 90’s after her aborted run for the presidency in 1988. Although it was not the topic of the meeting, over coffee we discussed what it was going to take to get a woman in the oval office. Congresswoman Schroeder shared that she believed that the first female POTUS or VPOTUS would be a Republican. Although Pat herself had been the first female chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, she thought that a Republican woman would have more national security credibility with men than a female Democrat would. Likewise, a female Democrat would have more credibility on social issues with women, but since white males usually decide elections, the Republican woman would have an advantage. She also shared that although the tone may be paternalistic, Republican men would stand behind their female candidate and offer some protection once they decided to nominate her. I’m tired of waiting for the Democratic Party to prove her wrong. If the first woman VP has to be a Republican to make it happen, then let’s get it over with. Sarah Palin has a compelling biography, has energized the Republicans, and will open the door for woman who suits our agenda better to come after. The hell with Gloria Steinem. She has done little to help in this regard. A woman in the second highest position in our country will help all of us. It’s not just about one woman.

  287. It’s official…Palin’s pitbull lipstick joke is SEXIST…..Just heard it on CNN…or was it MSNBC????

    LOL! These idiots are just starting to catch on that talking about “sexism” will win over women voters–if it’s sincere, that is. Oh yea, I am seriously offended by that joke. Not. Meanwhile, they say Clintons are “pimping out Chelsea” and that’s not a problem.

    Maroons, maroons, maroons.

  288. Is that really Pat? Or is it a troll passing as Pat? Pat, if it is you, no offense, but you just don’t sound like yourself…….

    @Janis- exactly ! results, win and be respected!
    @ cdo- yes!

  289. Samanthasmom – Very well-said!

  290. BTW, women are also not really being held hostage by Roe. Not seriously. the Dems are trying to, but that’s not what it is.

    We’re being held hostage by our desire to be liked. To have our friends like us. Because of a baseless belief that the only way the Dems will ever treat us right is if we cave, fluff their pillows, get their beers (and make sure they’re not too warm or cold!) and never speak up, never raise our voices, and always toe the party line.

    THAT is what’s crippling us. That and our desire to talk up ordinary men into gods so we’ll “like” them, too.

  291. madamab, you have a good “trolldar”

  292. Madamab,

    My research area is children’s language development. Do you know what I’m doing my dissertation on? Children’s narratives. My main interest is in children’s autobiographical narratives. Narratives are very important in development. Kids who learn to tell good stories at an early age do better academically. Isn’t that interesting?

  293. samanthasmom, study after study has shown that a society as a whole and the lives of women improve if you GET MORE WOMEN IN THERE, regardless of ideology.

    The pattern is consistent in country after country. Not that each of these individual women all do good – some don’t. But the fact that THEY ARE THERE changes things for the better in the long run.

  294. “We have spent a lot of time and wasted a lot of breath demonizing every single living breathing Republican as Jesse Helms in disguise. Yeah, these people can change, and they can be pushed.”

    I prefer to think of it as being “enlightened” but, as I’ve said before, for most Republicans it is about ideology, not labels. John McCain has exquisitely made the point with the Palin pick.

  295. “Palin’s pitbull lipstick joke is SEXIST”

    Hey, yeah! She said “hockey mom.” Not “hockey parent.” Equal justice for hockey dads!

    Of course, if she had mentioned hockey dads, she’d be accused of appropriating the experiences of others.

  296. WMCB, you just said in one paragraph what I’ve been blabbing about for pages. Perfect.

  297. Janis – Actually, I think I disagree with you on that.

    A lot of people who are Gen-Xers genuinely have been afraid that Roe v. Wade would be overturned. I know I have been. I marched on Washington in the late 80’s because Raygun came very close to doing it.

    The vehemence of the religious right on this topic has scared the living sh*t out of me.

    Now I realize that it ain’t never gonna happen. But I really was brainwashed for a long time.

  298. I knew it Seriously, that Palin woman is no good (and totally sexist too).

  299. fif,

    I’m listening to Fox on XM radio, not watching. I’m going to make an effort to listen, but BO’s voice drives me up the wall. If I had to watch him too, I just couldn’t handle it.

  300. BB – Fascinating! I didn’t know that about kids and telling stories…:-)

  301. I was in here this morning when pat was trashing hill and praising palin. Shocked, shocked to find he actually can’t stand palin either. I never suspected that he might be a closet Obot. 🙂

  302. I’m physically unable to hear or watch him

  303. New thread up, everyone!

  304. Janis, I disagree. I think women are being held hostage. Has there been one other issue coming from Obamanation used to argue a vote for Obama?

    The minute Sarah appeared on the scene the first R v W ads hit the market. Not every women feels the same way about abortion rights but they want equal pay. What has the Democratic party done for women lately?

  305. madamab, it won’t be overturned by fiat frmo the federal government, no. But if it’s impossible to get in many areas, doctors, hospitals, etc. aren’t providing it because they fear for their safety, and state-by-state nitpicking erodes it, then it might as well be gone.

    I want it in stone. I want a lot more things, too. The Dems had better get used to coughing up.

    Oh, I want a drink, too. A nice margarita while they’re up. Make sure you get the salt around the glass uniformly, Howie. I’m a stingy tipper.

    Nancy. Get me a pretzel. Now.

  306. Thanks BB. Let us know if he bombs 🙂

  307. 48, I think we’re disagreeing on semantics, honestly. I agree with everything you’ve said. I think I’ve bumped the definition of what’s holding us hostage up one level, abstractly.

    You are defining the hostage taking at the level of choice. I’m defining it at the level of “if only we’re nice enough to them, they’ll ensure choice.” We’re basically saying the same thing, though.

  308. Janis – You know who has allowed that to happen?

    The Democrats.

    Peel me a fucking grape, Donna. 🙂

  309. Dave, with all due respect, I think you have it wrong. I did mean PUSHED, not enlightened. I do not give one shit if the republicans have the warm fuzzies for me as a woman. I want the RESPECT that comes from them knowing I have electoral POWER. You get that, and the attitudes start changing in a decade or two, or faster. If you never grab their attention with that power, “enlightenment” never seems to roll around.

    So people can tell me all day long that McCain’s pick was a dirty nasty pander. What they are really saying is “Yeah, you forced him to respect you, but he doesn’t really like you.”


    Meanwhile the pink-vibrator feminist social club sits around feeling really good about Obama, because he likes them and is all enlightened-like, and therefore will protect them.

    No thank you. I can protect my own damn self if I can get some damn POWER to walk away with my vote if I choose.

  310. Word. Spiritual awakenings is not what I’m concerned with. I want my rights, and the person’s awakening is their business. But I’d maintain that by builoding a world where I HAVE rights and the planet doesn’t spin into the Sun in response, it’ll make that sort of awakening easier. People care less and less about something the more they see it around without giant holes in the Earth opening up.

    Let’s just leave the New-Age spiritual lingo at the curb. This is about getting stuff done.

  311. madamab, on September 4th, 2008 at 4:19 pm Said:

    Gloria Steinem should be ashamed of herself.
    I’ve been an activist feminist day in and day out for 40 years, and have considered Gloria Steinem irrelevant for most of them.

    She had one op-ed in the NYT some months ago against sexism that was ever so polite, tip toe-y ,and gentle. And Ms. magazine was no better, with only one tepidly pro-Hillary article, late in the game. It was clear to me that Ms Steinem and Ms. magazine either supported Obama and didn’t want to say so yet, or were terrified of angering him and his followers.

    Some people in the early 70s thought Gloria Steinem was a communist. I didn’t. But she had been one of the college students sent to Europe in the 50s by the CIA to attend youth conferences and counteract ‘communism’.

    The psychological profile created by the CIA at the time later convinced the patriarchal ruling class that she would never ever do anything to upset their applecart, so ex-agent Clay Felker bankrolled Ms. Magazine for her, and the MSM declared her the leader of the women’s movement. Together they went on to create a genteel cul-de-sac.

    She’s seems to not share our PUMA anger at the Democratic Party , or if she does, is afraid to show it. If she had one fifth of Sarah Palin’s guts she could have been a real leader.

  312. 48, I think I’m also answering a question that seems to me to be beneath what you’re saying: “Why do women have to care so much about choice anyway?”

    Because we die without it. that’s pretty much where it begins and ends. I can’t make myself not care about things like choice and cancer research. My mom had breast cancer. I can’t just experience a self-esteem boost and stop caring about cancer research.

    It seemed that the comment about allowing ourselves to be held hostage to choice was saying, in effect, “Why can’t you just stop caring about it so much?” instead of “Why can’t you all stop whining for someone else to hand it to you once you make them like you enough, and instead just pick up a hammer and go GET IT?”

  313. People care less and less about something the more they see it around without giant holes in the Earth opening up.

    Which is why I say get some women and gay men into office. As many as we can, short of them being ax-murderers.

  314. Janis,

    You are my hero.

  315. boston, I just need to write this shit down someplace, in a coherent fashion. That is, except for the fact that it enrages me to the point where my hair catches on fire and my eyes explode. That gets inconvenient.

  316. Well, I have been exploding right alongside you, sister. See, this is one of the things I admire about Palin, though her cause was not choice, her cause was corruption and service.

    So when she saw some corruption, what did she do? Write a nasty letter to “enlighten” them? NO. The lady went and got herself some POWER, then proceeded to use it to clean house.

  317. Note about William Ayres
    A couple of years ago, I was on an education panel with Ayres and Bill Evers (conservative ed guy) ( I was supposed to be the moderate). Anyway, we are supposed to be having a serious conversation about teacher education and Ayres says to the audience (of over a couple of hundred), “WOW, this is like the movie “Fabulous Baker Boys” and you (referring to me) are Michelle Pfeiffer.” As if I was just eye-candy to be “argued over”—not about the issues, not about the facts. He didn’t want to discredit my points–he wanted to completely ignore me. I have a freaking PhD and publish research on learning. Ayres is a slime beyond his weatherman history—another fake–OB probably felt very comfortable with him.

  318. Janis, on September 4th, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    No, I do understand why women have to care about choice. What I don’t like is that after thirty flippin’ years it is still trotted out as a threat. I do believe, unfortunately, that it is the only reason some women rallied behind Obama when for every other reason they wanted to walk away. I think it is the reason why the Obama camp felt that they could treat Hillary and her supporters like shit, and I resent every women who allowed that to happen. I have no respect for a Hillary supporter who caved on this issue.

  319. …sorry for the out of sequence bit on Ayres—It was mentioned on TV as part of the interview with O’Reilly and OB–and I was pissed that somehow Ayres is seen as this righteous revolutionary. When he is just another example of the DNC’s disregard for us.

  320. I just keep looking at my two young daughters, and then I look at what the Democratic party did to Hillary. Then I turn around and look at how many women are in positions of power because of the Republicans.

    So what do I do. Stick with the Democrats after the trashing of Hillary, and teach my daughters to be good and quite? Or give my vote to the party that doesn’t talk about respecting women, but sure as h*ll shows them their respect?

    If I vote for a Democrat my daughters will think it is OK to be mistreated in exchange for sweet nothings and future promises that never materialize. Meanwhile, what have the democrats done for women lately? Nothing.

    And Gloria Steinem should be ashamed of herself because she intimates that Republicans somehow don’t uphold womens rights. That is only correct if you think the only rights are a woman has is roe vs wade.

    I will not be party to putting in office a man who showed me, and women all over America, just how much he does not respect women.

  321. I may not agree with Palin’s views but I think she’s reasonable and mentally stable. Meanwhile Blood-in-the-Streets Brazile is a religious wingnut.

    Many of us can see through BO, and so can foreign leaders. BO equates having a smart mouth with being smart and his egotism will always get in the way of his judgement. Putin doesn’t strike me as a ROFLMAO kind of guy, but I’m sure he’s amused by the Barack Dossier and by the Americans who voted for it.

    I think McCain/Palin is providing us with the adult ticket this year and that’s who I plan to vote for.

    As far as ever looking for Dem advocacy of women’s rights, now I know better.

  322. Sarah Palin is absolutely a gamechanger in this election. What a leader she will be for America!

    John and Sarah are running to help America. Obama is just in it for himself.

    Country First…damn straight!

    Barack Obama is not worth our vote or our hard earned money!

    I can’t wait to kick the Obama Democratic Party out of our Democratic Party!

    Remember In November!

    John and Sarah ’08


  323. Janis…

    I vote you person on this blog I’d most want to be stuck with, while in a foxhole under enemy fire.

    ps..if there’s room, bring along Tambo and the moose too!

  324. so you want to vote for 4 more years of republican rule, how is that a victory for women, or anyone. just because palin is a women, does not mean she is a person who would vote for womens issues. ms clinton has said over and over that she is for obama. this is just like the world according to garp novel that has women cutting out their tongues, but the real woman who has had this happen to her does not wish for anyone to do this. please listen to ms clinton, she is really a wise person who would not just say things to please her party. no party is perfect, but 4 more years of bush policies is more then i can take. i have 2 sons and have lost a family member to war, i do not want more of the same, i want someone who will look to change what is going on. i have the utmost respect for john mccain, he is a true hero to me, but i do not feel he would change enough of what is going on in this country. please remember the over 4000 men and women who cannot vote this year, because the old regime is in power, and john mccain is not going to do enough to change this. the economy is in the toilet, and we need new policies to see if we can bring it back. please remember, 4 years of mccain is 4 more years of bush/cheney.

  325. e henry

    Palin is no cheney. My brother served in Nam and most of the men in my family have served in wars. Obama has little to no control over war, despite his promises and was on O’Reilly tonight saying he would go to war. He is already weakened as a negotiator and world leader.

    Despite it all, try not to be frightened. You never know what God has in store.

  326. war for wars’ sake is not a good thing. i have always taught my children that going to battle for good cause is the american way. darfur would have been a good cause, not iraq. can america really be the worlds policeman anymore? my brother died in vietnam, and i have 2 more that came home. i cannot afford to have my 2 sons in a war that is not needed. i love my country too much. i’m not sure who i wil vote for, but i will not vote for anyone,just because ms clinton wasn’t the pick of her party, or just because a women was picked for vp. i say no to the “ellen james” women, and yes to informed choice.

  327. I just had to throw this in, even if it the bottom:

    “Rush Limbaugh telling Republicans to cross over and vote for Hillary Clinton”

    This is because if Republicans lose, they would have preferred that Hillary became President. Don’t let the MSM fool you, and Rush is MSM – the average Republican who votes issues knew Hillary was the best candidate on the Democrats side and if we have to lose, we still want someone who can run this country.

  328. “war for wars’ sake is not a good thing. i have always taught my children that going to battle for good cause is the american way.”

    I have always told my children if you’re going to fight, make sure it’s for the right reason. The day you can stand there and tell me the fight is worth the punishment, is the day you will realize you have a cause worth fighting for. Petty bickering is never worth it.

  329. Of course we knew Hillary was the best candidate. That’s why we Republicans did not want to run against her. I think Limbaugh was more interested in Obama and Clinton beating the tar out of each other and letting them spend their campaign war chests to do it than he was interested in seeing Hillary become the nominee. By that time it was a done deal anyway.

  330. I watched with great glee, as “Sarah The Impaler” sliced and diced Barky to the core. I will vote McCain/Palin to prevent the Great Fraud from his preordained destiny(barf)

  331. […] Governor Palin’s Winning Narrative (by madamab AT The Confluence) […]

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