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Null and Void: Democrats’ Roll Call in Retrospect

[Bumped] This fabulous post has been bumped for your sleepless pleasure.

Suspending Rules and Winning “By Acclamation”

I am proud to call on the Senator from New York to make the following presentation, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton:

Madam Secretary, on behalf of the great state of New York, with appreciation for the spirit and dedication of all who are gathered here, with eyes firmly fixed on the future, in the spirit of unity, with a goal of victory, with faith in our party and our county, let’s declare together in one voice, right here, right now that Barack Obama is our candidate, and he will be our President. (yays and boos)

Madam Secretary, I move that the Convention suspend the procedural rules and suspend the further conduct of the roll call vote. All votes cast by the delegates will be counted, and that I move Senator Barack Obama of Illinois be selected by this Convention by acclamation as the nominee of the Democratic Party for President of the United States. (yays and boos — Hillary, Hillary, Hillary, chanting)

“Wuh Roo?” said Scooby Doo, “What Did I See On TV?”

This was bothering me. Many of you have moved on to whatever’s next in your PUMA/Just Say No Deal/Democrat or anti-establishment lives. But I’m not that way. I can’t move forward until I understand and sort out what I have witnessed.

What exactly did we see on the “Democratic” Convention floor last Wednesday, August 27, 2008? Why was the roll call halted halfway through? Why did state after state in which Hillary won the primary election and a majority of delegates declare their votes for Obama? Who and what do all those delegates’ votes represent? As each “Great State of” our Union called out its numbers, I wondered, what was the actual delegate count? I felt compelled to compare the roll call vote with the delegate count that we were supposed to get. After all, why pull the lever if it doesn’t even matter? Wow, now that’s deja vu all over again, ain’t it?

What About My Vote?

I will recap three points that we’ve been saying for months. I’m restating, because many citizens do not realize what happened right before their eyes: The delegate count in this election was not a fair reflection of the Democratic Party electorate. 1) Hillary Clinton WON the popular vote. (Resources and numbers nearly impossible to reconcile, based on FL, MI, and caucus votes) 2) There exists growing documentation, compiled by Lynette Long and ordinary poll and election worker reporting, that caucus fraud was rampant. This occurred in the form of systematic, deliberate suppression, misinformation, pressure, and bullying, mishandling of voter and caucus rolls, and ignoring basic caucus rules. 3) Each delegate elected from a district or region in a primary state represents approximately 12,225 primary voters, but only 2,110 voters in a caucus state. Accordingly, a caucus delegate represents about 5.8 times fewer voters than one elected in a primary. So, when Obama “won” a caucus, each of those delegates stood for far fewer voters. This is especially important in the general election in the red and swing states. Pat Buchanan called Wednesday’s spectacle a phony roll call vote in his op-ed, “And If Obama Loses.”

Why Is This Year Different Than Any Other Year?

Laying that aside for now, let’s talk about how the Democratic Party screwed Hillary Clinton and everyone who was connected to her around that roll call vote. At least that was my impression leading up to and viewing it on TV. Even the scheduled time was in flux. In my recollection, in every other election year, it had been held at night for everyone to view. But this year, Hillary Clinton, the person who won the most primary votes in history, had to negotiate for her right to be on the ballot and have a roll call vote on the convention floor. Her supporters wrote thousands and thousands of letters, emails, and blogs. They raised money, ran political ads, and spoke out in the media to help the delegates stick with the one that brung ’em. All this, because the DNC leadership and Obama’s campaign were so afraid of Hillary’s success after saying they could win the general election without all of us old and new dedicated party regulars. All year they tried to strong-arm us in to Unity and make her quit.

Our dedicated coalition members worked tirelessly to have a full roll call vote and a nominating speech for Hillary on the floor during prime time. We appealed to delegates and Superdelegates with petitions, and petitions on top of petitions. We didn’t know what would happen until the last minute, although we suspected. The same with Bill Clinton’s speech: off on, off on, but not during prime time, after they edited him.

And Then It Happened . . .

All of a sudden the roll call was on, but many of us were unable to get the live-streaming on our computers, so we ran several blocks away to a “Hillary-friendly” Denver bar. We saw states yield to other states on their votes, then the Convention floor was all abuzz, as our candidate was introduced as a simple Senator, with no mention of her historic win — just one of the guys delegation. She was on the floor with her fellow NY legislators. Then they made her eat sh*t, while they had her turn around and f*cked her up the a**, while reading a “stop the vote, we’re all onboard” speech. (Oh, I should have warned you: XXX, not my usual sedate lady self, is it? I feel a little strongly about this.) Everything was orchestrated, as CA, IL, and NM yielded so that Hillary, in a great show of U-N-I-T-Y, could cast all votes of her own NY State for Obama, throwing the delegate totals over the top. Oh, right, she likes it like that, because she’s a politician. But I’m not.

Yes, we’re all good soldiers and must move on to the next front. Many already have and are considering both individually and as a group what to do leading to November and beyond. However, many people aren’t clear about what happened, and are incensed that the vote was stopped mid-stream. Below, I’ve compiled the number of delegates won by state and candidate, how the numbers changed during the roll call vote, total number of delegates, and total number of votes cast. This list is variable, depending on the source and date and because it contains Superdelegates. On the morning of the roll call vote, 10 delegates flipped back to Hillary, and the petition effort was contacted by several Superdelegates who wanted to switch to her as well, some under the lights of the press.

Fair Reflection? Arkansas, Florida, and Michigan

Just a few words about fair reflection: Arkansas flipped. The Chairman of their delegation and DNC party head, Bill Gwatney, had been murdered two weeks prior. Heard anything in the news about it? Word is that his entire delegation had signed the 300 petition to ensure that Hillary’s name be placed on the ballot. In a twist of irony, his wife delivered their state’s votes to the Convention: Unanimous for Obama, after Hillary had won their state of origin by the largest margin of the primary: 70%. Arkansas.

Florida and Michigan votes were denied and blocked by Obama, until the May 31, 2008 DNC RBC meeting when he became a charity case. The committee donated four of Senator Clinton’s Michigan delegates and all the uncommitted vote delegates, which had included votes for other candidates. Obama had removed his name from that state’s ballot, fearing a loss would taint his chances in Iowa. However, Clinton kept hers on, stating that although the votes wouldn’t count, the voters should have a say. She was smart and right.

The Rules and Bylaws Committee refused to tackle their problem of fully seating delegates representing 2.3 million voters in both states. Instead they made each delegate into half-votes, and referred an incensed Harold Ickes, attorney for Senator Clinton, to the more appropriate Credentials Committee to contest their ruling in Denver on August 24, 2008. On August 5, Obama wrote a letter to that committee, requesting that those delegations be seated and counted in full. On August 20, when they no longer had any effect on Hillary’s campaign, as they would have had they been counted when she won them, those delegations were seated in-full. I learned on August 24 that the Credentials Committee and the Rules and Bylaws Committee were comprised of the exact same people. So I guess they really meant: talk to the hand.

How Am I Driving? Pass and Yield

Lastly, how about that orchestrated roll call, pass/yield deal? It began like any other roll call. Hillary would have her due. It had been rumored for over a week that she might release her delegates before a roll call vote on the floor. This prompted a new 20% or 826 delegate petition requiring a vote. Then came word of a secret hotel vote, then a Wednesday meeting with Clinton and all her delegates in which she released them and advised they vote their conscience. She’d cast hers for Obama.

Back to the roll call: First, California passes on casting their 441 votes, of which Hillary won over half. As Barbara Boxer yields to Hillary supporter Art Torres to make the announcement, she gleefully turns to her delegation and giggles. It’s as if Boxer was saying, “Ooo, what a coup! Aren’t we clever!” Come their turn, Illinois passes. New Mexico yields back to Illinois, who yields to New York. Then a hustle bustle on the floor, so Clinton could deliver the perfect Unity blow, right into her own back. Gee, it just doesn’t get better than this, does it?

Is It Safe To Vote?

Exactly, why do we vote if “delegates” can just switch their votes, and on the first ballot no less? Why should Superdelegates be able to have a more influential vote than any ordinary citizen, enough to sway their state and an election, as perpetrated by a biased and corrupt political party? I am committed to reforming the system to one person one vote. If we don’t have that, what do we have as citizens? It’s our most basic democratic right.

The chart below shows by state the combined delegate/Superdelegate count awarded to each candidate, the first ballot floor vote, total number of delegates per state, and total votes each cast during the convention. I completed the chart for the rest of the states. By directing Superdelegates to declare their endorsements before the convention in a DNCC and DSCC letter, in press conferences and public appearances, Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Harry Reid nullified their original intent. The numbers, which include SDs seem less close than they actually were.

Democratic Delegate Count vs. Roll Call Count

Democratic Convention, August 27, 2008

STATE      HRC DELS  BO DELS  HRC ROLL  BO ROLL  TTL DELS  TTL CAST
AL           28        29        5        48        60        53
AK            4        14        3        15        18        18
AM SAMOA      6         3        0         9         9         9
AZ           35        31       27        40        67        67
AR           38         8        0        47        47        47
CA          232       200       PASSES             441         0
CO           23        45       15        55        70        70
CT           36        24       21        38        60        59
DEL           8        14        0        23        23        23
DEMS ABRD     4         7        2.5       8.5      11        11
DC           13        25        7        33        40        40
FL          104        78       51       136       211       188
GA           29        70       18        82       102       100
GUAM          4         5        3         4         9         7
HI            8        21        1        26        27        27
ID            3        19        3        20        23        23
IL            0         0       PASSES               0         0
IN           42        41        6        75        85        81
IA           17        35        9        48        57        57
KS           10        30        6        34        41        40
KY           40        16       24        36        60        60
LA           26        39        7        43        67        50
ME           10        21        8        24        32        32
MD           39        55        6        94       100       100
MA           66        51       52        65       121       117
MI           76        72       27       125       157       152
MN           27        58        8        78        88        86
MS           13        25        8        33        41        41
MO           41        46        6        82        88        88
MT            7        17        7        18        25        25
NE            8        22        3        28        31        31
NV           13        20        8        25        34        33
NH           12        15        0        30        30        30
NJ           71        55        0       127       127       127
NM           20        17       YIELDS TO IL        38         0
IL           49       133       YIELDS TO NY       185         0
NY          159       121        0       282       282       282
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
           1321      1482      341.5    1831.5    2907      2174

NC           51        78
ND            5        15
OH           82        74
OK           25        21
OR           23        41
PA          101        80
PR           42        19
RI           21        10
SC           14        39
SD            9        12
TN           46        35
TX CAUC      29        38
TX           79        75
UT           11        17
VT            7        14
VI            3         6
VA           33        63
WA CAUC      31        61
WV           23        12
WI           34        53
WY            6        12
--------------------------------
            675       775
          +1321     +1482
--------------------------------
           1996      2257

Source, delegate count: CNN Primary Results Scorecard
Source, roll call vote: CSPAN live tape up top

Total number of delegates: 4234
Number delegates for nomination, including FL, MI: 2211
Chart numbers include Superdelegates: Obama 438, Clinton 236

Et tu, Brute?

So why did so many states flip? Sources say that on the morning of the floor vote, everything was complete. Many opinions say it was finished on or before the May 31, 2008 DNC RBC meeting. But not believing our eyes and ears, in service of democracy, we kept on to preserve our and the rights of our candidate. We’ve since learned that as late as August 27, during the convention, swing-state delegations were being threatened with loss of Party funding for their states and candidate campaigns if they didn’t vote for Obama. Evidently, Obama needed Hillary more than she needed him. Otherwise, they would not have had a sham roll call or a Mile High speech to prop him up.

Oh, and as far as going Repug, it ain’t me, babe, although I will never cast a vote for Obama. In my life, the means are absolutely as important as the end, and I cannot support a candidate who derives power “by any means necessary.” If I have to cast a protest vote, I will. However, remember who brung Brazile? Her info emails with Karl Rove beginning in 2003 helped him help her promote the most unelectable Democratic candidate. So, let’s not forget who’s still trying to pull the strings and who’s still laughing all the way to the bank. Criminal, ain’t it? Too bad, Dems still ain’t got a clue.

In conclusion, Hillary and Bill Clinton were in an impossible, lose-lose situation. Some supporters got disgusted and thought they caved. I don’t think so. In order to come out of this, being seen as having done everything possible to nominate and elect Barack Obama — a far more generous and political act than exists in his little finger — The Clintons did everything possible, Bill while holding his nose, and came out smelling sweet as a rose. Party people all the way, and on to the next challenge. Yes, I’m getting there.

[“Evita,” music Andrew Lloyd Weber, lyrics Tim Rice]

[cross-posted from Lady Boomer NYC]

addendum: Sorry, I had a columns formatting problemo, and while editing the post it went offline. Here ’tis again, hopefully all will stick. LBNYC

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158 Responses

  1. HT lurker: Responding to your previous post this morning (in Tuesday: The Way) about women being their own worst enemy. I absolutely agree with you. I am in my mid-20s and most of the women I know are Obamabots. My own roommates (love them) are Obamabots. One of them is 21-years-old and voted for Obama and recently went on a diatribe about how she was not a fan of Palin because of her “inexperience” and anti-choice views. But then again, she didn’t like Hillary either who was by all accounts experience and pro-choice. So what is good enough for these young women my age? When will they be satisfied with women on either side of the political spectrum?

    As a young person I never understood why young women love Obama. Is it because some find him attractive, “cool”, a “change” from politics because of his r_a_c_e? Women like my roommate are also only in their early 20s. You have to give them some slack too. This sweet girl is naive and protected from the real world thus far. She doesn’t seem to grasp the fact that Obama is just as inexperienced as Palin and he is running for president. She doesn’t grasp or have first hand knowledge of sexism at the workplace or in personal relationships. She doesn’t grasp the violence and humiliation faced by too many women around the globe – even privileged trailblazers like Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin. I think that if we fast forward 20 or 30 years, many of these young women will have a change of heart but unfortunately many like Nancy Pelosi and Maureen Dowd will live their privileged lives with little sympathy or affection for their fellow sisters who continue to fight for equal treatment in our society.

  2. Wow. That was an incredible post, LadyBoomer. Kudos. It was worth waiting for!

  3. It’s enough to make you sick.

  4. holy crap — I can’t believe I can agree with pat Buchanan…my whole world is topsy turvy.

    thank you for such a clear concise post Lady Boomer NYC…

    I am not over it either. I will never get over it.

    HILL No, I won’t BO

  5. Thank you Lady Boomer. I’m glad to know I’m not the only one still wondering “WTF???” Thanks for doing the research and laying it all out there.

  6. We’ve since learned that as late as August 27, during the convention, swing-state delegations were being threatened with loss of Party funding for their states and candidate campaigns if they didn’t vote for Obama.

    For the first time in my life , I am ashamed to be a Democrat. That’s what I thought as I watched this primary season unfold.

  7. Brava! Brava! Thank you!
    I needed a clear recount of what’s happened! And the numbers too! Do you know that NYT needed to shave that 341 delegates who heroically voted for Hillary by 110?
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/firsts-and-lies/
    also, if you missed this send-off from the Guardian on the farce – it’s a must:
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/funniest-headline-obama-wins-make-believe-vote/

  8. Hillary and Bill Clinton were in an impossible, lose-lose situation.
    And if Obama becomes president, they will be completely shut out his admin and out of the DNC.

    No way, no how, nObama. Take back the Democratic party.
    HRC 2012.

  9. vote Palin

  10. Thinking back, I was, of course, for Hillary at the top of the ticket. For a while, I thought that Obama as V.P. would be a good thing – before I got to know him better.

    Nothing is good about this travesty except that Hillary will be no where close to this guy. He’s poison. Let Dean and Donna go first.

  11. Great post, ladyboomer! Got my blood boiling again!

  12. ladyboomer, thanks for laying this out so clearly. As I watched that sham, I had the feeling that all the numbers for Hillary were lower than they should have been, though some really smacked me in the face (like Arkansas, Florida, Mass.) Seeing the results in this table form is very powerful. I don’t think we should let this go. There must have been some coercion, which at best goes toward voter intimidation. Has Heidi Li’s group or any other group showed a willingness to pursue this?

  13. Fabulous description of what happened. I can’t wait for Bill’s statement after the GE.

  14. [shown, not showed]

  15. Thank you, Lady Boomer, for a fantastic post. Lots of information. I’m going to need to read it a couple times.

    Right now, I am so angry and disgusted with Dems and the personal attacks on Palin that I just don’t know what to think. What happens if two women are driven out of the race by these thugs?

    I am certainly opposed to Palin on policy grounds but i am heartbroken at the way she is being treated.

  16. Thank you so much. I’m glad you posted the actual count vs. roll call. I knew it was bad, but not this bad….but being threatened. Insane.

    BTW… was anyone watching CNN? Washington Post reporter Sally Quinn just gave an interview regarding an article she wrote. What is going on with us women? Is the world so drunk on Obama Kool Aid that an educated woman could sound so much like she’s stuck in the 1800’s?

    Quote (on Sarah Palin): “Is she prepared for the all consuming nature of the job? She’s the mother of 5 children – one of them a 4 month old with Down Syndrome. Her first priority has to be her children. When the phone rings at 3 o’clock in the morning and one of her children is really sick, what choice will she make?”

    Please. There are countless mothers right now who have to just hand the kids over to “daddy” or “grandma” (or whoever) and answer the call of the job. Some of us do it by choice, and some of us do it because if we don’t we won’t be able to feed said kids.

  17. All of a sudden, my Dem lady friends are deluging me with forwarded anti-Palin emails that are similar in tone to those I received about Hillary last February and March. None of them hopped in to help Hillary and just watched my efforts as a friend without rolling up their sleeves and getting involved. Why now???? Sigh. Frustrating to say the least.

  18. Okay LadyBoomer this, I think, is completely on topic. I just got this letter in response from the last PUMA Prowl we did.

    Dear Ms. _______ (ME TheRealKim):

    Thank you for writing to my office about the Democratic presidential contest. I appreciate your enthusiasm for our democracy and truly value your thoughts.

    I am pleased and honored to support my party’s nominee for the presidency of the United States, Senator Barack Obama. Senator Obama won the Kansas caucuses by an overwhelming margin on February 5, 2008, and he has united Kansans across party lines with his message of hope, optimism, and reform.

    As you probably know, Senator Hillary Clinton’s name was placed into nomination for the presidency at the Democratic National Convention. This was a thoughtful compromise that ensured that the voices of her supporters were heard in Denver. It is now up to all of Senator Clinton’s supporters to ensure that her message of change remains heard between now and Election Day.

    Again, thank you for sharing your views on the presidential contest. Your thoughts are invaluable and very much appreciated.

    Very truly yours,

    Nancy Boyda

    Member of Congress

    See, it was a thoughtful compromise, LadyBoomer, never mind our votes, I mean, HELL, they were thoughtful enough to allow her at least something. So remember, they are thoughtfully telling me in their own way to shut the f#!k up and get on board.

    Damn this letter makes me mad.

  19. This is why I have so much trouble with the theory that we should support ‘down ticket Democrats’. Why? They sold us out and they sold out democracy. Why did I bother to vote in the primary, why did Maryland spend milllions of dollars to run an election, if none of it mattered anyway. I will not vote for Obama or for any Democrat that supports him this election. Next election, the DNC and their candidates will have to earn my trust.

  20. Lady Boomer, I’m getting the anti-Palin emails too. Very tasteless and sexist and all I can do is shake my head. It’s sad to know how comfortable these so-called “liberal” folks are with their biases.

  21. Lady Boomer – thank you so much for this clear and concise definition of the numbers.

    I repeat what I said in one of the other threads – there has got to be a least one member of the 4th estate who is interested in exploding this bomb.

    The rest of the world is looking at us and they know what’s going on – the country that dares to preach about democracy just screwed it’s electorate in plain site. We can’t let them get away with it.

    I too had decided long ago I couldn’t vote for BO but also can’t go to the repub – I will just not vote for the top of the ticket if necessary.

    I wonder however what Hill and Bill are onto. I know they are good soldiers – and need to be if they are to stay in play at all. But after reading your statement I have renewed the anger I felt last week.

  22. Honora, I can so relate to your post. The only Democrat I’m voting for in November is Mark Warner… because I like him and he did a great job as governor NOT because he has a D by his name. From now on, a candidate will need to earn my vote.

  23. Lady Boomer NYC – You could have said, instead of the Clintons doing everything they can to show unity, “-a far more generous and political act than exists in his little finger-“, a far more generous and political act than existed in his middle finger.

  24. I understand people not wanting to vote for either McCain or Obama. Personally I never thought in my wildest dreams (or worst nightmares) that I’d even have to make a choice like this. I guess I’m just worried that so many people will sit out this election and he’ll weasel his way into the WH anyway.

  25. Thank you, ladyboomer. What an incredible amount of work. I’m a little confused by some of the numbers not adding up across the board, but assume that may be due to difficulty obtaining accurate original delegate numbers.

    It’s clear from the threats to the delegates that the DNC couldn’t care less about downticket races or else they would never have threatened delegates with the prospect of withholding funding for state races. It is clear that the DNC and many in Congress can’t stand the Clintons (and I do mean Clintons–it’s not just Hillary, that’s for sure), and yet we are the ones who are accused of cutting off our noses etc. This is more disgusting than I ever thought possible. What happened to our votes?

  26. Follow the money. A clue about the current coup within the Democratic Party.

    Check out this article from April 2007 about the early fund raisers for Obama…. Money Chooses Sides http://nymag.com/news/politics/30634/

    Take a close look at that photo as there is lots of great symbolsim there. Notice George Soros body language compared to everyone elses (he’s the one sitting by the stairs and slightly behind).

    FYI, while I disagree with painting Soros as some sort of “bogey man”, and I even like some of the international work he’s doing, but it’s clear he has some sort of agenda for the Democratic Party and has been controlling the money. Note how Greta’s husband mentioned that the MoveOn folks had taken over the Democratic Party. Soros is a major funder of MoveOn.

    Soros appears to be someone who works for democratic princples around the world but he also seems to me a somewhat amoral big money guy. What are his motives in trying to get Obama elected? How does he expect that to pay off for him financially and in terms of his own global influence? Some questions to ponder.

  27. Selected “by aclamation” in the US of A?!

    Well, I live in a former Communist country, and this — the “aclamation” — was the way our Communist Party’s Secretary General was elected and re-elected, each 4 years, for 25 years.

    That is, until the popular revolt, when we caught him and got rid of him finally. Yes, it took us 25 years, it was that hard to do it, once he sized the power.

    Good luck to you.

  28. Lady Boomer

    Thank you for this post.
    I was starting to think I I was crazy and had imagined the whole thing, as people seem to have already moved on.
    Personally, I’m not over it-I’m still furious and in absolute shock.
    Voters no longer matter!!!

    With your permission I will spread this post it via email and print copy, as so few know the real story of what went on during the sham roll call vote last week.

    I’m not over it.
    I couldn’t share in the jubilation over the Palin nomination when I was still reeling from the DNC antics, complete
    with the smirking Alice Germond presiding.

    It further blows my mind that no-one (except Pat Buchanan?) is speaking out!
    How could the Clintons go along with this?

  29. You did an awesome job with this post and I can’t get past it either. I find myself getting more and more depressed about this and I hope to get over it by ousting Nine Percent Nancy from office.

  30. Liberty Belle — LOL! Middle finger, now why didn’t I think of that?

  31. GREAT JOB LADY BOOMER!!
    So the “HORROR” we witnessed was actually the “2nd” roll
    call vote.
    My fantasy is “if” the Birth Certificate thing is true & Obama
    gets disqualified; I’d want Hillary, “NOT” Biden to step in.
    Hay! I girl can Dream can’t She??!!

  32. All — Glad this struck a chord, is helpful — and that I’m not the only one who’s in recovery or still sounding alternately like Scooby Doo or an angry “rantessa.”

    Yes, absolutely, permission granted: circulate, promulgate, get the word out, do it up! Many people don’t blog but do email.

    If it doesn’t translate, here’s the DemConvention08 roll call vote video YouTube link, which is a clean copy. Its only disadvantage is they don’t display the running totals.

  33. As angry as we may be about this and as wrong as it is, we are not going to be able to change this outcome before Nov. 4. I will be a powerful struggle to change it after Nov. 4. Our only hope for change is to revolutionize and upset the leadership in the DNC. The only way we can do that is to ensure that Obama is defeated in a humiliating landslide. I do not think that is going to happen easily. The only way that it can happen is for every one of us, totally, to vote for McCain/Palin—even in the blue states McCain probably will not win, even in the red states McCain is likely to win, not just the swing states where we think our vote might tip the balance. We must do everything we can to give McCain as many votes as possible because regardless of the electoral college vote, we can only send a message if the popular vote puts the fear of females squarely in the face of Democratic party members. They have to worry not just about losing this election but maybe losing their upper hand with women voters who make up more than 50% of registered voters. I read of some here who can not quite see themselves doing a McCain vote. I respect that but I humbly beg you to reconsider, to think deeply. If Obama wins this, or even comes close, we will experience a redoubling of the tactics that have so upset us in this election. All that has gone down will be glossed over and forgotten. We can only change the outcome down the road if we take an ironclad stand—no obama, no more canceling votes, no more manipulated caucuses. We must have party rules than ensure pledged delegates will cast their votes as the voters mandated on the first ballot, that that vote must be a roll call vote and that there are no exceptions. We must also have party rules that insist that super-delegate votes will not be cast until a second ballot. We must do away with the caucus. We must do away with the weighted delegate counts that favor selected constituencies for no valid reason. It is not enough just to vote no on Obama by not voting or leaving that space empty or voting a third party. No the only fear that will truly get us anywhere will be the vote that threatens the Democratic party with losing the biggest electoral vote in this nation and that my friends is women. I have been a solid Democrat for 50 years. I have never voted for a Republican. This year, I will gladly vote McCain Palin. I will contribute to McCain Palin. I will volunterr for McCain Palin. And on the morning of Nov. 5 I want to wake up and be able to say one thing—-I have done everything I could think of for the political future of women and the reform of the Democratic party because if we do not put a stop to what has happened now, it will only grow like a cancer.

  34. Lady Boomer – Maybe I am missing something but…

    50 states spent millions of taxpayer dollars to run some sort of primary process. As it turns out this was wasted money because The Corporation (DNC) did not utilizie the results from the states. Therefore, the process was unnecessary – a scam if you will.

    On my ballot in the primary I didn’t notice a large red stamp with the words “JUST KIDDING”. But now I know they were.

    Shouldn’t the Attorney Generals of each state ask the DNC or the state Democrat party to reimburse the taxpayers? Half of the Democrats and all Republicans would like to see their state reimbursed.

    I think the best way to wrestle the party back is to bankrupt it. In some states, if the Attorney General doesn’t pursue a matter of this type the citizens can do it. This seems likes something we should look at.

  35. LadyBoomer, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, this is what I saw too, and I can’t believe other people don’t. It makes me sick and sad . I personally see the Democratic Party as something I did not know. Truely, I am so upset and in a place where I my never believe people who spout principles I have lived by entire life. It has left me void. I will never forget, I will continue on, only because it is my promise to my grandmother, (who was in Tennessee at the moment women recieved the right to vote). As an aside I am from Fl., this past week we had a primary with only three names on the ballot. Only 77 people voted in my precinct. For the first time in my voting life I almost did not go vote. But at around noon, I dressed myself in my grandmother’s best Suffragist colthing, including purple sachs, white hat, yellow rose, and proudly marched into the voting booth. What happened to me next was surprising, emotional. All of the poll workers ( all women) reconginized my dress. But then a drepressing conversation ensued. All of these women did not know OUR history. Yes there is not much of it written, but the next thnig that happened shocked me. I stood there almost giving a letcure on Women’s Civil Rights to Women! At first it was exciting that I could tell the the history of Tennesee and the 19th ammendent. But then I was just sick because all to these women did not know it was the 88 th year that women had the right to vote,they knew nothing about how it happened. This primary has hurt me somewhere that sometimes I can’t explain to people. I don’t know that I will ever “get over” the experience of going thru a Democratic Primary not being able to just select a candidate and vote and feel my vote REALLY counted.

  36. Barack Sexist charge, With Cnn & Msnbc

    There is Proof out there I know first Hand, that Obama Campaign & Barack & Michelle Obama, them self, are making CNN & Msnbc, Thrash
    Palin & Her Family,
    Obama Campaign heard Quarter, emails and faxs going around, From Both Michelle & Barack,
    To attack Sarah Palin on her Experience and Family Values, many sources right now confirming ties Between Cnn & Msnbc,. to the Barack Obama camp,
    One Source in side Obama Head Quarters in Illinois one chief obama staffer claim that, He heard Barack telling them have Cnn & Msnbc, to thrash her and thrash her Hard, Let me worry if it Sexist or not, Msnbc & Cnn are Paid assets, and owe us, They taken care of Hillary for me, and they will Take care of Sarah Palin, Soon as Cnn & Msnbc start in on it,, the other news Network will start rolling with it to. Just like with Hillary, That was a direct Quot,

  37. Granted the heavy-handedness and duplicity of the DNC, and despite all of the hurt feelings of disappointment, regret, and yes, even betrayal, the stakes in this election are so enormous and the consequences of 4 more years of Republican mismanagement so catastrophic that I hope cooler heads will prevail. Let’s not Naderize this election for the greater good of the entire country. The prospect of more ultra-conservative Supreme Court nominations alone should help reconcile the differences among Democrats. Even if it’s a toss-up between two disliked candidates, Obama wins the tie because at least he’s a Democrat. What voice, what access, will Dem women have in a McCain Administration?

  38. A search through FEC monthly filings for JUN, JUL, and AUG 2008 showed what was going to happen at the convention.

    http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/efile_search.shtml

    DNC SERVICES CORPORATION/DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE
    recevied 3,500,000 from OBAMA VICTORY FUND on July 31
    recevied 7,500,000 from WHITE HOUSE VICTORY FUND on July 8
    recevied 1,500,000 from WHITE HOUSE VICTORY FUND on July 31

    DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE ACCOUNT
    disbursements 126,160 to OBAMA FOR AMERICA in June and July

    OBAMA FOR AMERICA disbursements on 7/17/2008
    Colorado Democratic Party 108,098
    Florida Democratic Party 244,709
    Iowa Democratic Party 88,223
    Indiana State Democratic Party 83,341
    Maine Democratic Party 22,350
    Montana Democratic Party 33,939
    Michigan Democratic Party 134,062
    Minnesota Democratic Party 49,405
    Missouri Democratic Party 110,813
    North Dakota Democratic Party 37,207
    New Hampshire Democratic Party 52,584
    Democratic party of New Mexico 57,294
    Nevada Democratic Party 1,000
    Oregon Democratic Party 30,694
    Ohio Democratic Party 208,545
    Pennsylvania Democratic Party 174,059
    Democratic Party of Virginia 118,907
    Democratic Party of Wisconsin 89,942
    Washington Democratic Party 42,000
    Alaska Democratic Party 46,126

    OBAMA FOR AMERICA disbursements on 7/28
    Colorado Democratic Party 19,203
    Florida Democratic Party 11,268
    Georgia Democratic Party 11,243
    Iowa Democratic Party 11,165
    Indiana State Democratic Party 8,192
    Michigan Democratic Party 10,877
    Ohio Democratic Party 34,116
    North Carolina Democratic Pty 8,968
    Oregon Democratic Party 4,290
    Pennsylvania Democratic Party 11,760
    Democratic Party of Virginia 12,199
    Democratic Party of Wisconsin 16,942

  39. Realist, it’s clear you don’t understand that the level of infamy perpetrated by the DNC and other members of the Democratic Party has gone way beyond who is running for office. Those of us who come to this site are long-time Dems who believe in the integrity of the party. When the party loses integrity, they lose us. I, for one, am not willing to accept banana-republic tactics from any political party, including the Democrats. Your guy voted to spy on Americans. In my book, that puts him on a par with the Republicans who voted to spy on Americans. It’s a no-go.

  40. Realist,

    Roe, Roe, Roe my vote, I’m as scared as you,
    Boycott them, boycott them, boycott them, that’s the thing to do.

  41. Realist – What access will women have in an Obama administration?

    The same access Hillary had.

  42. Realist – my, my, my. Were you all that concerned about ultra-conservative S.C. choices back in 1991 when Joe Biden (Chair of the Judiciary Committee)went along with putting Clarence Thomas on the bench and orchestrated a public flogging of Anita Hill.

    I have been a liberal every day for over 45 years – not just when it was convenient.

  43. You are not a Realist! If Obama is placed in offfice – kiss the Democrats good-bye for 20-30 more years! He will make the Democratic brand so toxic because he will be the worst President ever!

  44. madamab, yes, I think women will be able to donate and say, “I rate Obama as doing a very good job as president.

  45. Realist, I completely disagree with you and you are wrong.

    BO is not a person of principle and there is no reason to believe a BO administration will, in any way, be a principled administration.

    Moreover, the current democratic party has already, daily, amply shown that it has no intention of doing anything else than suppressing, ignoring and bullying. This is a group incapable of mediating discussion or leading a coalition toward agreed upon goals.

    So we have people without principle, without integrity, and for some reason I am supposed to believe that despite all the evidence, despite all the experience, they are going to unselfishly enact principled goals in a skilled manner.

    It’s bullshit.

  46. Realist

    Don’t go away mad
    Just go away.

  47. As a Texas Delegate we were told the roll-call would begin at 4pm in Denver. We were eating a quick bite outside the hall when the tv showed the roll-call had started. We took off running, 3 middle aged Texas women all furious, one crying. One gave out before we got there and told the others to go on.
    We got there, in time to hear Hillary give the votes of NY to obama. We could handle that.
    What we couldn’t handle, and if were there you would have heard us yell NOOOO, when Hillary gave ALL the votes away!.
    It broke our hearts, more so than any other point of the convention…..that SHE had to give away what we had worked so hard for….to be allowed to cast our votes for those we represented back home.

  48. Forgot to add the roll-call started ONE HOUR early in Denver!

  49. Jangles – “on the morning of Nov. 5 I want to wake up and be able to say one thing—-I have done everything I could think of for the political future of women and the reform of the Democratic party”.

    I agree. Women who think they are being very “post-feminist” and “independent” when they choose a candidate without regard to gender, are really doing neither. They are in fact putting every other issue ahead of their own civil rights. No party has been more demeaning toward women during this election than the Democratic Party. There are no good choices left. I’m voting against Obama to preserve my own self-respect and regain my party.

  50. Exactly justsaynotobo – thank you! Great point regarding putting ALL other issues in front of civil rights, including the claim that the civil rights of others are more important than their own.

  51. Thank you, Lady Boomer NYC, for you excellent report!

    Jangles, on September 2nd, 2008 at 4:27 pm Said:
    and
    justsaynotobo, on September 2nd, 2008 at 5:54 pm Said:

    I agree 100% We have to face the fact that there is a huge power struggle in the Democratic Party and that the Clintons and their constituents have lost for now. If Obama wins the presidential election, we will be permanently relegated to an underclass. Imagine, if we are treated so dismissively now by the neo-Democratic Party when they need our votes, how powerless and truly homeless we will be if Obama is elected.

  52. THANK YOU LADY BOOMER for your insightful analysis into the madness that happened that awful day.

    We will remember in November. You can’t buy Democracy. When Democracy comes back to the Democratic Party, so will we. Until then – PUMA.

    We must spend the next 4 yrs. fighting for primary reform so that this travesty doens’t happen again!

  53. talk about shock and awe that travisty was beyond
    i watched in stunned silence then the tears came and the anger against the dnc
    hillary earnrd the nomination she was robbed raped
    defiled stabbed in the back as was president bill and beautiful chelsea
    a very sad day in america to watch democracy die in the democrat party
    puma

  54. Yes, that is the only answer:
    PUMA!

  55. Let me add my thanks for this wonderful post. As I
    watched that travesty unfold, the tears just fell from my
    eyes but, but I marveled at Hillary’s strength and poise
    under such circumstanstances.
    As you astutely pointed out, the Clintons read the situa-
    tion correctly and did ALL that they need to do for both
    the party and Obama. Should he loose, which is entirely possibly it will be because of the choices and
    diescisions that he has made. He wants to take cre-
    dit for running a great campaign. Then he has to take
    responsibility for any subsequent loss or campaign
    failures. Such as, not reaching to Hillary Democrats,
    supporters, NOT making his small donar list available
    to pay off her debt * in exchange for her campaigning
    for him*, Not vetting Hillary for VP, Bet that one is really
    biting his ass now!!!
    Bottomline…is the more Gov. Palin is attacked in a
    clumsy sexist manner…Obama looses.
    Gov. Palin is not my cup of tea on the issues. I’ve do-
    ted to the WWF. She sued the federal government to
    keep them from putting polar bears on the endangered
    species list! She also supports aerial shooting of
    woolves! Check this out:

    feature=related
    I think that there is much that all of us NEED to know
    about Gov. Palin. Especially, PUMAS and others dis-
    gusted by what was done to “our gal” and all of us who
    supported her.
    There is only one Hillary! And , she and Bill will remain
    the true leaders of the Democratic party, no matter
    what happens in November, as far as I’m concerned.
    HILLARY 2012

  56. About the list posted above by
    “Fitz, on September 2nd, 2008 at 4:50 pm”

    I think these are Soros’s money.
    He’s buying himself a presidency in the US.
    Not bad from a guy from Hungary.
    Thanks, Fitz.

  57. I thought this article by Pat Buchanan (yes, I know) was very insightful: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/and_if_obama_loses.html

    What Pat misses is that this election has also become about sexism and ageism as well as about race. Whoever wins, the effects will be deeply felt and far reaching and the pundits will be studying it for a long time.

  58. Ladyboomer – I already thanked you “very large” on your blog. Nothing about this roll call was acceptable, least of all having the candidate on the convention floor during the vote. I don’t remember that ever having happened. They usually watch from a hotel room on TV. In fact, Hillary does not watch any of that – Bill watches and she stays in another room. To have her on the floor was an enormous and cruel break with tradition – I guess “the party” saw that as just desserts for a woman who had the courage to run this far and do so well. It was unforgivable and abusive.

    I SO LOVE that you ended with Evita. FINALLY we have our own American Evita in Hillary. The party and Obama campaign kicked her around exactly the way the military did Eva. But her mission is so much higher than they can see.

    I’m not going to roll back upthread to see who made these comments, but Kim – I think – you can answer that email – I used reply and told John Kerry how I felt about Hillary’s treatment when he wanted Obama defended against some swiftboater. In that email, I said what someone else up there said: I am angry and ashamed of the Democratic Party.

  59. You bet I’m mad about the Arkansas delegation vote!
    I filed to run as a Hillary delegate, but the positions always go to the long-timers. Now, why should I bother to vote in the next primary? My vote doesn’t count for anything. Grrrrr!!!

  60. Sorry meant to post this on this thread so I’m reposting it here:

    Kudos for this commentary. In-depth and insightful and echoes what I was thinking as I watched that tragic farce of a “roll call.”

    How dare Obama “negotiate” to “allow” a roll call at a convention????? What has happened to this party when the presumptive nominee gets to make all the rules? This shouldn’t have been Obama’s convention. This should have been the Democratic Convention, anmd half of the Democrats favored another candidate. JFK went to the Convention in 1960 knowing there would be a roll call and support for his opponents. He sucked it up and dealt with it, and then he unified the party by selecting his primary opponent as his VP (should have been a hint for Obama). But every story I read leading up to the convention was about how Obama was “allowing” this or that and was “allowing” a roll call, but with certain rules and with the understanding that Hillary would stop the roll call after a certain bumber of states had read their votes. Allowing democracy as long as there was a staged, guaranteed result… Geezus isn’t this how Saddam Hussein ran things in Iraq?

    I’m looking at your chart right now. As a Massachusetts voter, I am royally p**sed off. I’m an Independent, and my state just got open primaries this year. That means that before this year I was unable to vote in primaries. I left work and waited in line to cast my first primary vote ever, for Hillary Clinton. I was mad enough that some of my superdelegates like Kennedy, Kerry and Deval Patrick decided to go against the will of their voters and endorse Obama. But now come to find out that suddenly “pledged” doesn’t mean anything either, and that “pledged” delegates are not pledged at all? What the hell did I vote for then? My vote was a “request?” Like a pretty-please-with-a-cherry-on-top request? Give me a break.

    Oh, and even worse, New Hampshire gave ALL their delegates to Obama. I have a lot of friends in NH and they are quite upset about that. They all voted for Hillary and Hillary won that state. New Hampshire is the first primary of the year and they votyed for Hillary. So the New Hampshire 2008 Democratic Primary was the first presidential primary in history to go for a woman. And they didn’t think that was significant enough to put on record at the convention? Unity my A**.

    My stomach turned when New Mexico yielded to Illinois and when Illinois yielded to New York, I knew what was coming. Then it was all a blur, with “Love Train” in there somewhere and me reaching for a bucket. Obama and the DNC not only shot a bullet through any pretense of democracy, but they also forced Hillary to pull the trigger.

    Seriously, this whole thing was a sick joke. Howard Dean and Donna Brazile need pink slips. If McCain wins, I will start campaigning for Hillary 2012 on Nov. 5.

  61. Shy lurker here. I am not typically an emotional person, but watching Hillary give it all away made me bawl. This post had the tears welling up again.

    Hillary will survive but it is truly America’s loss. It is a tough job ahead for whoever is the next CIC, and Hillary is by far the best person for the job.

  62. Thanks so much for this one, Lady Boomer NYC.

    I could not agree more.

    I have never been more stunned, angry and disappointed. These cowards couldn’t stand up one time for one hour.

  63. Wow, I’m blown away by such thoughtful comments and discussion — especially the breadth and depth of experiences and emotions, even extending out to friends.

    Sigh, it’s so sad that people were robbed by their own. Indeed, our country has clearly lost. At least we can take strength in that WE SAW it happen and can conspire to turn the world right side up again. We certainly gave it our all and will continue. Tell anyone who will listen what you know in whatever way they can hear it.

  64. This time, I watched the Evita video. I like Patti LuPone doing it better than Madonna, but it always made me cry – now it makes me doubly sad – about Evita and about Hillary.

  65. LOUD APPLAUSE for LadyBoomer and Renegade. You go, women!

    Earlier tonight in the email…apparently there’s a movement afoot by Clinton loyalist Craig Smith and former SC gov. Hodges to reform the DNC for 2012.

    http://georgiaunfiltered.blogspot.com/2008/08/dnc-2008-resolution-establishing.html

    Section 1. Establishment of Democratic Change Commission.

    BE IT RESOLVED: That no later than 60 days after the date of the next election of the National Chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), the National Chair shall establish a commission (the “Commission”) to review the Delegate Selection Rules in light of developments during the 2008 presidential nominating cycle and to recommend changes to the Delegate Selection Rules for the 2012 Democratic National Convention, not inconsistent with these resolutions, to improve the nominating process.

    RESOLVED FURTHER: That the Commission shall be known as the “Democratic Change Commission;” that it shall consist of 35 members and two co-chairs, all with the right to vote on Commission business, appointed by the National Chair of the DNC; that its membership shall be equally divided between men and women and shall be geographically and demographically diverse; that the DNC shall provide the Commission with adequate staff and resources to carry out its mandate in accordance with this Resolution; and that the Commission shall issue its report and recommendations to the Rules and Bylaws Committee of the DNC no later than January 1, 2010.

    Section 2. Timing of the Primaries and Caucuses.

    RESOLVED FURTHER: That the Delegate Selection Rules for the 2012 Convention shall provide that no meetings, caucuses, conventions or primaries which constitute the first determining stage in the presidential nomination process (the date of the primary in primary states and the date of the first tier caucus in caucus states) shall be held prior to the first Tuesday in March of the election, except as otherwise provided in the Delegate Selection Rules and recognizing the valuable role played by the approved pre-Window states in 2008; and provided that no such meeting, caucus, convention or primary shall in any event be held prior to February 1 of the calendar year of the National Convention; and that the Commission also shall review the sequence and scheduling of primaries and caucuses with a view towards reducing the scheduling of such events on the first allowable date that resulted in 22 primaries and caucuses being held on such date in 2008 and toward reducing frontloading within the Window period; and that the Commission shall review the rules for proper enforcement of the primary and caucus timing requirements and delegate allocation matters, particularly with respect to action by the Rules and Bylaws Committee; and that in making its recommendations, the Commission consider any revision of the Rules of the Republican Party of the United States adopted by the 2008 Republican National Convention regarding the scheduling and sequence of presidential nominating events.

    Section 3. Delegates

    RESOLVED FURTHER: That the Commission shall consider and make appropriate recommendations for revisions to the Delegate Selection Rules for the 2012 Democratic National Convention to provide for a significant reduction of the number of unpledged party leader and elected official (PLEO) delegates in order to enlarge the role and influence of primary and caucus voters in the presidential nominating process. The Commission also shall review the formulas for delegate allocation to assure that delegates are fairly allocated to accurately reflect the will of the voters and that the right of the delegates to reflect the sentiments of those who elected them shall be secured to all delegates.

    Section 4. Caucuses

    RESOLVED FURTHER: That the Commission shall consider and recommend appropriate revisions to the Delegate Selection Rules for the 2012 Democratic National Convention to provide that:

    a. the use of a caucus/convention system for any stage of the delegate selection process by any State Democratic Party shall be approved by the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee in accordance with any new specific criteria to be set out in the Delegate Selection Rules, and which will be designed to ensure that at each stage, any caucus or convention will be adequately planned, organized, and staffed; will take place at such times and in such locations as will meet the requirements of Rule 3 of the Delegate Selection Rules and will otherwise maximize the opportunity for full participation by Democratic voters; will be run using appropriate balloting methods and, as to tiers following the first stage caucus, will utilize accurate lists of participants; and will afford the opportunity for meaningful communication of presidential candidates with their pledged caucus participants in advance of caucuses and conventions.

  66. Testing….can’t seem to get out of moderation….?

  67. Did I say something wrong? Hm….just trying to spread the word on something important…

  68. I’d link the URL but it won’t post for some reason. DNC reforms afoot and soon, hopefully….

  69. All right, giving up…three longish posts are just not showing up when I hit submit…sorry for the chatter, all.

  70. And to think Americans died for the right to vote. Makes me want to vomit, oh wait I already did.

    If Obama wins, we all lose. We may never win again. I am praying for a victory.

    Hillary Rodham Clinton should not have given up or given in, but I still love her dearly. Oh what might have been if she stepped up to that mike, looked those obots in the eyes, and said “The bitch is back and I’m in it to win it.” Oh what might have been…

    McCain Palin 2008, Hillary Rodham Clinton 2012 and 2016!!

  71. Thank you Lady Boomer, I appreciate your hard work. Only one small point of clarification; the relationship between Donna Brazile and Karl Rove goes back to at least 2000.
    http://www.donnabrazile.com/viewBlog.cfm?id=9

  72. this is totally off topic but – I heard on my local tv news tonight that Biden was in Florida today talking about women’s rights. They must be really worried – talking to a bunch of 80 year old women about women’s rights just strikes me funny.

    As the saying sort of goes – Biden knows as much about women’s rights as a fish knows about Sunday.

  73. Take this with a grain of salt, because it’s rumor, BUT posts on the rightwing blogs are indicating that people have been digging into this Kos blogger arcxix, who was the prime offender with the Palin smears.

    Word has it that some of the right wing blogosphere types traced the
    IP for arcxix and it led to none other than…
    Wait for it….
    Wait for it….
    AKP Media via a couple of different web sites.

    AKP media is Axelrod, Kupper, Plouffe

  74. I hope you all do not mind me being on here. I am not a troll, I am clearly stating that I am a Republican.

    I have been reading your blogs for days now and I have to tell you that I am impressed with all of you Puma’s who have banded together in unity. I myself have been equally frustrated with the RNC, but will still vote Republican.

    Perhaps you are the start of a third party in this country?

    Do you know how many Puma’s in count there are?

  75. RepublicanMike, there are not that many “official” PUMAs (those who have actually joined PUMApac), but the latest polls say about 30% of Hillary’s 18 million supporters are NOT having any party unity with Obama, no way no how.

    I don’t know if this is the start of a third party or not. Most of us here are hoping we can wrest our party back from the maniac thugs who are trying to take it over. We shall see.

    It seems as if your party is trying to do a little house-cleaning of its own. I wish you well in that endeavor.

  76. Our party needs to do house cleaning as well. No doubt about that. What I like about your blogs here, is that it seems as though you all have the courage to possibly vote for the opposite candidate against your party to make a statement. I too, have voted for Democrats for office in the past when I thought my party candidates were full of hot air.

    Perhaps someday we can take the best of both parties and create a powerful third!!!

    I will tell you, I have not shared a lot of things in common with Hillary, but I do recognize what she would have done for your party. The DNC blew it for you all in my opinion.

  77. WMCB, on September 3rd, 2008 at 1:07 am Said:

    Does that mean that Obama will fire all of them? If true, what are the chances of the media reporting it?

  78. If they think they have our votes as a “given” they never learn, do they? I have voted for plenty of Dem candidates I didn’t care for, or held my nose for, when my guy lost the primary.

    But for me, Obama is beyond “don’t care for”. I honestly think he is dangerous, has already destroyed our primary process this year, and could well do horrendous things to this country that I love.

    The DNC has become totally corrupt. I want all of them – Pelosi, Dean, etc, tossed out.

    I have often thought also that if the common-sense moderates from both parties ever joined forces, we’d kick some butt and fix a lot of what is wrong. But for now, I am still hoping I can take my party back from the brink, get back to the old FDR Democrat style – the practical style, not some elitist pie-in-the-sky crap.

  79. 48, I don’t even know if it’s true, but it is very clear that there are people digging.

  80. Wow Disenfranchised Voter. That was a wonderful post. You are right. Many of the women here paved the way. I joined the Army in 1982 and on my first day our Drill Sergeant said you will be told you are here for three reasons: (1) you’re looking for a husband; (2) you’re looking for a lesbian partner; (3) you’re just too ugly for the real world. I’m here to make sure that is not why you are here, and I am here to prove to my colleagues that they are wrong. I was a “surfer girl” from California – long blonde hair, blue eyes, tan, and built pretty darn well to boot; not gay; and joined the Army to get out of an engagement. I was raped when I was 9 and my family chose not to prosecute because it would be “disgraceful” to the family if anyone found out. I dumped guys the day after I slept with them, just to beat them to the punch and laughed when they came back again and again trying to convince me they weren’t what I thought of them. So when my Drill Sergeant said that I knew I was where I wanted to be. Yes, men called me sweetie, I looked them straight in the eye and said excuse me, they leered, I’d grab their balls and laugh at their shock. I’m not proud of it, but I did it.

    When I mentioned Hillary’s speech about the 18,000,000 cracks, my male boss said “what the hell is a glass ceiling?” Yes, this was 5 days ago and he honestly had no idea what I was talking about … the women there just looked at him like he was a Martian, even the men stopped and said are you serious? He was.

    When I relayed that to my 16 year old daughter saying I can’t believe he didn’t know, she said what is a glass ceiling? I wanted to cry for joy that maybe she won’t ever have to know what so many women before her have experienced. But I also explained it wasn’t always this way. I told her you laugh when you hear Helen Reddy sing I am Woman because you have no idea. It’s always an opening to discuss how she has the world ahead of her, how she needs to realize that she has choices, and it’s not marriage unless she wants it. it’s not secretary if she wants to be CEO, it’s not the workforce if she wants to be a mother and wife. It’s her choice, but it wasn’t always that way.

    BTW Republican Mike, I think if you learn as much as I have from the people posting here, that there’s a lot to be learned. I too am looking for that viable, not crazy, third party.

  81. Sorry to go off topic here but I’m watching Fox (again) and I just heard something funny. When this campaign season kicked off I thought the Republicans didn’t have a chance. They didn’t have a candidate, George Bush, the war, George Bush. and of course Hillary! I thought their party was in such disarray and the dudes who ran were so ridiculous but this guy just said that the Republican party has so much UNITY. The were bringing up the new poll numbers showing Barky at 50% and this guy just shot it down. They are going to get a huge bump even tomorrow night. I can’t wait to hear Palin speak.

  82. IMHO Hillary was not directly forced to do the voter interruption and call for acclamation but either she did that or she had to stand by and watch her delegates reporting out to Obama and her voter tally ending up a very pale and inaccurate reflection of itself. By calling for the acclamation she at least had the opportunity to “lead” the convention in interrupting and canceling the roll call rather than be humiliated. I guess now that I write this out that the whole scenario was orchestrated to force that outcome. Get acclamation for Bambi or see yourself humiliated with a pathetic vote. I am over and over enraged at this bunch. I read the polls showing Obama pulling ahead of McCain by at the 50% mark now and I am just so afraid that not only will he steal the primary, he will take and steal the ge. It is a nightmare.

  83. A journalist friend of mine was in Denver and was pretty adamant (and disgusted) that the process was undemocratic and the order of the day was unity with a sledgehammer. This person reports specifically on policy not campaigns, knows their stuff and is objective.

    I would love to know the truth about Obama’s blogger hordes, whether this stuff is more or less organic, or some are specifically directed by the campaign somehow.

  84. I am learning a lot. I am truly inspired by these people and thier sentiments.

    You know, I was asking questions on some of the other sites, what I weould call Liberal sites, and I see nothing but pure vitriolic hatred.

    I never hate anyone for the way they vote. It is their choice as Americans. So, when I clearly stated that I was a Republican, I was attacked. I was not there to be a troll. I simply wanted to discuss.

    Already being on this site for a few posts now, nobody is attacking me, we are simply sharing dialogue.

    Now, I am a Republican in a Democrat site and we all seem to get along just fine!!! I respect this.

    This is how we all can change America for the better. Finding the common thread, not the differences that seperate and divide us.

    Keep up the good work all!

  85. HA, Colmes just said Palin was an affirmative action choice.

    Republican Woman: Thank you for sharing.

  86. Republican Woman,

    Wow! That is one of the most impressive and moving pieces of testimony I’ve ever seen posted. Thank you for sharing it.

  87. I think we got a winner with Sara. As a man, I am very happy to have a women in the party now. We needed this for a long time. Even if she was picked for “political reasons”, it is still a change for the Republican party and a fresh start.

  88. “Jangles: As angry as we may be about this and as wrong as it is, we are not going to be able to change this outcome before Nov. 4. ”

    With all due respect, if anyone is reading from Nevada, I am a Republican but I would encourage anyone in Shelley Berkley’s (D) district to vote for her. She supported Hillary. Also, the man who won the R primary is not only a sexist, but he is also anti-semitic, extreme Christian right – I mean this man is such a loose cannon that when he speaks, the organizer stands right next to him waiting for the rant of the day to pull the mike from his hands and say thank you, next. I would ask anyone to not cast cast their vote for the Republican in CD1 please. I have had no problem voting for Shelley Berkley because I know the R running (for years now) is not the best choice.

    Shelley Berkley is a good woman, supports women, supports animals, and has a good head on her shoulders.

  89. “Colmes just said Palin was an affirmative action choice.”

    Ugly and self-defeating! Let’s keep it up! Woo Dems!

    Jangles, I don’t know what happened, but there’s a rumor going around that shortly before her death, STJ was contacting people to tell them that the Obts were threatening her with a primary if she didn’t shut up about the roll call. If that’s true, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if they likewise leaned on HRC. I mean, it doesn’t seem to make much sense to talk up a roll call for several weeks and then poof, be the one to make it go away.

  90. Cnns poll was quoted incorrectly .. on another post .. I think it was another post ..

    49 – Obama

    43 – McCain

    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/

  91. I feel like one of the worst things I’ve seen this year.. people who I’d have thought were my peers, engaged in politics, the netroots crowd, all this energy – their behavior is often just as bad in going scorched earth against opponents (and being utterly gleeful about it), as far right radio and those who tried to destroy the Clintons in the 90’s. Palin is just the latest example – she’s crazy, she’s an idiot, she’s from some nowhere town, and on and on. She has beliefs and I don’t happen to share them but that’s that. I don’t know.

    Some folks smarter and savvier than I should take leadership roles for blogosphere 2.0, base it on building something positive because blogosphere 1.0 is little more than lock-and-load, send the mobs after the newest target, facts and reality be damned. That’s all they know how to do. Even when they support something they’ve no concept of doing anything other than “reward good behavior” and destroy everyone else. I’m also worried that MoveOn.org and other netroots are indeed little more than a giant ATM machine that operates on a national level, so it becomes more about spinning them into sending politicians money (and targeting opponents with vicious comments and posts), than it is about really doing any hard work or taking consistent stands on the issues.

  92. Electoral College .. fwits worth is

    226 – Obama

    189 – McCain

    270 needed to win …

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/10/electoral.map/index.html

  93. Actually, this is a very good thing. The Republicans have a chance to show us that they are serious about courting our votes. Both parties have pushed themselves into the proverbical corner and hopefully we can help direct the party line with our grand Puma presence.

  94. I agree with that statement, Puma-SF

  95. I really want to see Sarah in action taking down Biden in a debate. The morons on many of the Left blogs and the media are trying to paint her as know-nothing redneck bimbo. I think they are in for a rude awakening.

    You know, even with both our parties intact, without going to a third, our country can STILL work well if we can get good people in there on both sides. I am old enough to remember a time when LOTS of bills were bi-partisan. When we disagreed, but Republican was not a “dirty word” to Democrats, and vice versa.

  96. Republican Mike: I have found the same here. I lurked for well over a month before I posted because I can’t be honest on the Republican sites, and forget about Daily Kos sites. The people who post here are mature, well-balanced citizens who actually care about each other and the issues. Those who aren’t seem to be deleted fairly quickly. It’s a place where you can share dialogue, agreement and disagreement, in a respectful manner. I respect the whole “I own my vote” premise, and for some reason I can actually see that the issues are honestly debated and I haven’t found much of anything I disagree with.

  97. If that were a Man from Alaska with the same qualifications, the MSM would not be attacking.

    All of a sudden, you have this women running with a real shot at a top spot and she is getting put through the wringer.

    I think it will BACKFIRE!

    Us men had over 200 years. It will probably take a women to get our heads out of our asses, excuse the expression.

  98. I was on the OBAMA site and wow did I get blasted. There was no tolerance one bit for a Republican. That is not how you convert people to your line of thought.

  99. I wnated Rudy early on. I was never a Mccain supporter.

    However, I am 100% behind the ticket now because I respect him now that he chose Sara. Even if it was for political reasons. He made the decision. I have a 13 year old daughter who can now believe it is possible for a women to become VP or Prez.

  100. Republican Woman: It’s all about fee speech here.

  101. OK its 2:20 am on the east coast here. Time for bed. Thanks to the people on this site for allowing me to be a part of the dialogue.

    I will be back tommorrow.

    Sincerely,

    RepublicanMike

  102. RM, I have heard that a lot. I hear people further right than McCain say I don’t agree on some stuff, “but I respect him”, and I hear Democrats say I think he is wrong on this and this, “but I respect him”

  103. Wmcb .. You can hear Palin debate here , if this has been posted please forgive me again ..

    http://palintology.com/2006/08/08/decision-2006-republican-candidate-round-table/

  104. Republican Mike: I was for Duncan Hunter, which is often met with Duncan who? Even by the pollsters who called me. Then I moved to Ron Paul. I was any one but John McCain (even though I voted for him in 2000). Now I chair a McCain coalition, I’m stunned but proud he chose a woman, but there will be a few Dems I vote for on the bottom ticket because they are the better choice. I’ll always vote issues, no matter how involved I am with the “Party.”

  105. Charles, wasn’t estrich the first female president of the Harvard law Review?

  106. How is everbody this pm?

  107. (I ask because one of the new talking points is that Obama was prez of the law review, therefore he should be President of the United States)

  108. Jeff Toobin and Obama also held that job.

    Makes ya wonder how stiff the compretition is

  109. Thank you, Lady Boomer, for piecing together all the nasty bits of this charade. In real time, I’m afraid that I bailed out after Nebraska cast their votes. I could stomach no more. But I needed the opportunity to see the depth of this farce. I needed to watch until the bitter end when Pelosi hurriedly declared the two thirds majority without giving so much as a split second of time to any audible “No”s.

    As difficult as it was to watch, I needed to see this and your accounting and comment. It does no good to hide from the truth. I have not moved on and I’m carefully calculating my next move.

  110. Charles:

    I’m sullen on my good days

  111. Thanks Charles

  112. seriously,
    his was the first year the prez did NOT write an article for the review. ClarenceThomas is Barack Obama is NOT good enough for me. If Affirmative Action has not kicked in during college, law school, the Supreme Court, and the POTUS is not the place to play nice. We need the best, not the right color.

  113. I didn’t even consider watching the roll call.

    With bribes, threats, misinformation or whatever else they needed, the DNC was not gonna let Hillary win.

    The only way Hillary could have won an upset victory is if the media called bullshit on the DNC and raised a big stink.

    We PUMAs were up against the powers that be, and we were completely outmatched.

  114. Well, jennifer, I read Scott Turow’s memoir, and if I recall that’s what his classmates said about Estrich, too, she’s an affirmative action pick. I’m sure he’s perfectly qualified to be the president of the law review, I just don’t see what that has to do with being President–and if it does, hey, equal consideration for Estrich.

  115. I’m not so sure about Obama’s work ethic. Or maybe he’s dyslexic or something.

    He wasn’t even 40 when he wrote his first memoir, and it took him forever to finish it.

    At that age, if you’re writing your own autobiography it shouldn’t take more than a month.

  116. LOL You also have to visit grandma and make sure her “memories” line up with yours.

  117. I took a little break today, I needed to flush out my brain after last weekend.

    Molly Ivins had a line about the Republicans “Just when you think they can’t get any worse, they go and prove you wrong.

  118. Governor Palin on Hockey moms:

    Q: What’s the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull?

    A: The hockey mom wears lipstick.

  119. LOL Whatever you do, don’t ask that question to a Democratic Senator.

    Just. Do. Not. Do. It.

  120. My spouse who had not voted for many years, decades in fact, actually registered here in Arkansas to vote for Clinton. He’s disgusted, and may never vote again, after seeing how his vote and mine was given to Obama.

    Why bother to vote if it won’t be counted? What is up with that? So many turned out, thought they were picking a candidate, and their votes were given away to someone they hadn’t picked. Why? Is that democracy? Doesn’t seem like it to us!

  121. Many thanks for this post about the roll call vote. The poster is to be congratulated for her work!
    I am glad to recommend to everyone the book “Nemesis” by Chalmers Johnson. In it he speaks of the conflict between empire and democracy. He relates the decision the Roman and British Empires had to make between empire and democracy at home. His thesis is that America must now make the same choice. I believe this is one reason we are seeing these very un-Democratic processes take place within the United States. American “neo-conservative” hegemony must be maintained abroad even at the expense of democracy at home. But we have a choice. We can reject world domination and return to our historic practice of non-interference abroad. God knows we have enough problems here at home.

  122. It’s hard not to talk about Governor Palin’s family when you are outraged at the slezy attacks being made on them

  123. Dennis:

    This country sorta has a history of electoral funny business.

    Throughout history, those who have wealth and power (they are inseparable) tend to try to accumulate more wealth and power.

    That is inherently anti-democratic.

    The struggle has been going on since the beginning of civilization, and will likely continue as long as civilization exists.

  124. Good morning. Finally got internet connection.

    The Early Show describes Palin as “enigmatic and controversial” Oh my.

    Wife attributes “the vetting” of no-good-Palin by the MSM and big blogs to her gender.

    Talk to you later (need to see what TL is up to, heh)

  125. Excellent piece, Lady Boomer NYC. Reading it, I got mad all over again. Well, actually I never stopped being mad but seeing the fraud laid out point by point ratcheted up my outrage a few levels. What the DNC and the Obama campaign have done is every bit as heinous as the 2000 FL election fraud and the selection of GWB by SCOTUS.

    I live in NY and I was pissed as hell when my state was the final stake in the heart of Hillary’s Presidential bid. Apparently, my vote counts for nothing, so I’m sure the DNC won’t mind when I give my worthless vote to McCain in November.

  126. Glad it was bumped – everyone needs to read this!
    meanwhile, NYT gets around to correct one lie while ABC gloats over trash
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/new-york-times-corrects-one-lie-abc-gloats-over-trash/

  127. OT: but check it out and have your say over at Alegre’s Corner

    “This Hurts: Governor Sarah Palin and Sexism From the Left ” by ghost2

    http://alegrescorner.soapblox.net/

  128. “RepublicanMike, on September 3rd, 2008 at 2:13 am Said:

    I was on the OBAMA site and wow did I get blasted. There was no tolerance one bit for a Republican. ”

    Wow, that’s a far cry from the hand around your cahones Obama and his people had when they were coutring y’all for the “Democrats for a Day” drives in the states that Obama tried to get Repubs to cross over to “vote for him/vote against Hillary”. See how quickly Obama people will toss anyone under the bus when it looks like you don’t agree with them?

    BTW, this is an awesome post.

  129. My mom just called me and said that Geraldine Ferraro was on good morning america talking about PUMA. Does anyone have the video?

  130. Well, based on what I have been reading it would seem that Ds are invincible this cycle.

    Congratulations.

  131. Great post, and you are so right. I just don’t have it in me any more. I just feel like it is so useless, since the leaders of the DMC don’t care, and have selected their nominee. And the media refuses to cover it, and the Obama supporters just keep screaming that we are racist and delusional. But you are right, it is not over, and it is wrong, what happened.

    That is a huge part of my decision to vote McCain. I just can’t vote for the Dems and reward them for what they did… Hit ’em where it hurts.

  132. John McCain’s life story proves that torture doesn’t work. Sarah Palin’s life story proves that abstinence-only education does not work. In fact, the Republican position on just about any issue does not work. Yet Republicans are going to win this year because the Democratic Party is stupid.

  133. OT – but I am so frustrated this morning over the furious vetting of Gov. Palin…the MSM is truly showing their hand…I have heard more than one say that the vetting of Obama was over and he won blahblah and the american public have spoken.
    My ASS — the MSM has not reported one other unsavory story on Obama except for the shallow coverage on Rev Wright and then they were proclaiming that as a victory because of the best speech evah.
    Plus – are we in junior high? I have seen Obama MORE THAN ONCE mispronounce the town that gov palin was mayor of as “wa-SILLY” oooh how very clever of you sir.

    aaaarggghhhh – where are the republican attack dogs we have heard so much about?????????

  134. […] The WayMonday: PUMA Power Up all NightDavid Axelrod’s Secret Weapon: A Play in One Despicable Act.Null and Void: Democrats’ Roll Call in RetrospectDownticket Dems: NC EditionBristol Palin is pregnant. Life […]

  135. […] The WayMonday: PUMA Power Up all NightDavid Axelrod’s Secret Weapon: A Play in One Despicable Act.Null and Void: Democrats’ Roll Call in RetrospectDownticket Dems: NC EditionBristol Palin is pregnant. Life […]

  136. Sophie, the is absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that Bristol Palin was taught “abstinence only” at home. None. Palin is not anti-contraception. I know plenty of evangelical parents who teach their moral views to the their kids, but do an excellent job of educating them about contraception as well.

    One thing people need to understand is that many conservatives firmly believe that sex ed programs by the government are intrusive on their privacy and rights as parents. They don’t all believe that teenagers should not be taught frankly about sex, or offered birth control – they just have a problem with the state doing it rather than families.

    I COMPLETELY disagree with them that there is no role for the state in this matter, because it is a poverty and public health issue. But assuming and making caricatures about these people is not helpful. They DO have some reasons for their views, other than “too stupid to come in out of the rain (or not get pregnant)” which is how they keep being portrayed. Making the assumption that Bristol Palin was told nothing but “don’t do it, it’s a sin” is unfair.

  137. I know plenty of young Dem women who were taught about contraception and still got pregnant. Some had abortions, some not. Palin is known as being pro-contraception, so this is just a smear.

  138. Is there really a post at HuffPo titled Hillary started it, now she must end it? Ie, women voting one of their own into the WH. Eff that!

  139. WMCB: I wasn’t so much talking about what might have gone on in the Palin household, just remarking on a Republican talking point and the irony of the whole thing.

  140. Good morning everyone. I was scrolling through the top of the thread and want to call out the comment from Jangles regarding voting for McCain in November.

    i think she is right. I was waivering there for a bit, thinking that i may not have to vote for him here in this “blue” state. But i have always been resolved to do what it takes.

    My mood right now is like Charles–sullen. The polls from yesterday scare me. Jangles made all the points. We must as a voting bloc do all that we can-unite in insuring McCain’s win. I really worry about too many of us here not being ready to vote for McCain even though they want Obama under NO circumstances. Those that have come to terms or resignation with a McCain presidency should well consider actually voting for him.

    This will not be a landslide for McCain in the fall. I do not want a nailbiter in November.

  141. (waving) Hi Joanie! Good Morning!

  142. These totals just prove that those Democratic leaders participating in the Democratic convention didn’t have the courage of their ideology and failed in their duty to protect and serve our Constitution by contriving to select the losing primary candidate.

    But, beyond the question of their own party bullying and threatening delegates to put a candidate up for president who did not earn it, there must be the reason WHY they did it? How did this newbie gain enough influence over these people in charge of the Democratic party to make them lie, cheat and steal for him? Or, What Did Obama Have On Them That Would Make Them Do His Bidding because, if they could bully and coerce a primary and a convention in his name, there is some reason beyond the color of his skin and the content of his character. This has never happened before (that we know of) and we have had true African American candidates before.

    Something wicked this way came. And we need to find out where it came from.

  143. Karol – “Something wicked this way came. And we need to find out where it came from.”

    Totally agree with your post…but I also ask…. why is the media in the tank for him as well??

    and how do we overcome the media when the message they send out is the one the majority hears???

  144. Mawm, on September 3rd, 2008 at 7:51 am Said:
    My mom just called me and said that Geraldine Ferraro was on good morning america talking about PUMA. Does anyone have the video?

    Here is the video:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5714319

  145. Just when I think my rage has reached its zenith, LBNYC’s post fans it.

    When you realize that “they”, the “Dem Party” PLANNED this train wreck for years. YEARS. It’s funny that anyone ever used the term, His Judgment, jeebus, they all seem more like lunatics to me now. This is not a political party – it’s an asylum for the morally challanged. These people sold out – literally Sold out my party for a ZERO candidate. I think they don’t show Hillary much anymore so we will not be reminded of what we wanted. It is that judgement – they lack thereof, that insures I will not vote for any of them. It’s my choice, my only voice – my vote will never be for any of these people. Thirty year membership – CANCELED! I am a Clinton Dem.

  146. Just cuyrious here, you say:
    SD: H: 9 O: 12

    I thought Hillary WON SD???

  147. sarainitaly — I went to the ABC video link and found P Diddy who made a special tape for McCain, where he “cutely” rants about Palin as VP choice. He complains that there’s “No crime, black people or crack in AK.” (my paraphrase, but his terms) Oy. Now that’s perspective. I guess PD means that Palin should have experience dealing with those things? He says he’ll turn out millions of voters to counteract. I hope he runs for office so he can use his experience. We can vet him just like they did Obama. sigh. I don’t exactly know what I’m saying, I’m just shaking my head a lot in disgust. I hate to give it juice, but hate to keep shaking my head solo. Get off the stage, dude. 15 minutes way up.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5714319

  148. NEW POST UP BY MAWM

  149. I did not expect that Hillary Clinton would win the roll call vote, but I did believe that for historical reasons and to sooth the feelings of the Hillary voters, they would give us that vote. Both sides would make a few speeches and call for a vote of unity, which would have carried with at least 90% or more of the delegates. How, under some state laws as well as the rules , could delegates, not vote the wishes of the voters that sent them to the convention. Why even have primaries and just have the DNC tell us who the candidate is and have us line up and vote. I am reading that more and more how people can not vote for McCain and just will not vote. If we do not defeat Obama, we will not be able to reform the Democratic party. I know there are issues that are hard for us to swallow, but if we fail now, the lunatics that set this up will be in control for years to come. You must vote McCain!. Obama must be defeated!

  150. That’s my feeling, in a way. If you’re not voting for BO, you’ve already accepted that you’re OK with a McCain win. Voting third-party if you live in a swing state is sorta like saying “Well I don’t want BO to win but I’ll let someone else do the dirty work of voting for McCain…”

    On the other hand, I certainly understand the reluctance of voting for either one of these two deeply flawed candidates. Also, there’s the factor of knowing that a bunch of votes for a third party, like the Greens, will increase their legitimacy and add to the possibility of viable third parties in this country, something that we desperately need. If a third party gets 5% of the GE votes it gets federal funding and, IIRC, debate participation.

    I live in a guaranteed-blue state so I have the luxury of voting third party, which is what I plan to do. And I wouldn’t presume, from this advantaged position, to criticize someone else for their voting choice. I’ll leave that to the Obamacans.

  151. Thanks Eleanor, but I’m actusally not a woman. LOL. Just a guy who supported Hillary and knows she got a raw deal.

  152. Awesome work Lady Boomer. This travesty only reemphasizes the fact that this whole election process was rigged from the start. And we all knew it. Though we were willing to suspend our disbelief long enough to “hope” that they would do the right thing in the end. We were proven wrong in a way that leaves no room for question.

    For what it is worth, I really enjoyed experiencing this nightmare with you and the rest of our PUMA pride.

  153. The DNC plucked and stole an election from Hilliary a woman. The GOP can’t do it. The Obama campaign missed the opportunity today to acknowledge the significance of a female on a national ticket, instead
    choosing to snipe at Gov. Palin’s small town background. That clip won’t play well in the very areas the DNC needs to win over.

    Not only did the Democratic party fail to nominate the strongest, most qualified and & most electable candidate they had in Hillary Clinton, they failed to put her on the ticket at all. Nonsensical.

    Sen. McCain and the GOP deserve kudos for a masterful stroke. Women have been told they don’t matter in the Democratic party this year (even though they are the majority voting block of the party) and to sit down, shut up and get in line behind in Obama. Women have been the
    majority voting block of the Democratic party for decades under the illusion that the party stood for women. Women decide all elections and this one will be no different. Women will likely respond to this likable woman from Alaska who’s got more executive experience than
    Obama and Biden combined.

  154. In NJ–and other primary states, iirc–the state runs the primary election and the voting is subject to the same rules applicable during the general election.

    Except, for some reason, a large Hillary victory, resulted in 0 votes being reported during the roll call.

    Pledged delegates? I guess they can say that Hillary released them, right?

    But what do they say to the electorate next primary season? You can vote, be don’t the party doesn’t have to honor the results?

    And they wonder why we’re angry….

  155. I just went to Wiki for primary results and came away really, really confused: Many states have lines through the initial results–and often Obama got more delegates even when he lost to Hillary. How does that happen, anyone know?

    Were John Edwards’ delegates automatcally given to Obama bcz John endorsed him?

    Were there followup meetings where delegates could just switch? Whassup?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2008_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

  156. […] This is especially important in the general election in the red and swing states.” http://riverdaughter.wordpress… […]

  157. To: owenaprhys, on September 3rd, 2008 at 11:02 am, who said:
    Just cuyrious here, you say:
    SD: H: 9 O: 12

    I thought Hillary WON SD???

    ————————
    Right, I checked same source and show same numbers with a check by Hillary for winner. I’m guessing it’s Superdelegates. It seems like the delegate numbers are disappearing before our eyes. If you, or anyone, find different, please inform. Many don’t add up, I agree.

  158. For the wiki question, I glanced at the election page and don’t know why numbers are crossed out or revised. To my understanding, anyone can write anything on wiki without correct or complete sources, so it’s every person for him or herself as far as accuracy or bias go.

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