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Mom says, Sarah Palin is cool

Mom gives a thumbs up too

Mom gives a thumbs up too

I checked in with my evangelical sources in central PA (Mom and siblings). They like Sarah Palin a lot. Here’s why:

  • She comes across like a regular person, not a politician
  • She has a reputation as a reformer.
  • She’s outdoorsy
  • She’s young, fresh and appealing
  • They like the way she is handling Bristol’s situation
  • She’s a woman.

Yep, put that in your pipe and smoke it lefty blogosphere 1.0.  My mom is a strict moralist, which always makes it fun to visit her with the BFF where we sleep in separate rooms.  But this business with Bristol doesn’t phase her a bit.  Everyone makes mistakes, she says.  She thinks the family is handling the situation well and is doing what *she* would have done (I’m not sure that’s entirely reassuring…).

So, there you have it.  She’s onboard for McCain.  She voted for Hillary in the primary but the Republicans won her back based on the social conservative creds of Sarah.   Mission Accomplished, Senator McCain.

Now, let’s sit back and watch the Democrats phreak out.  Pass the popcorn.

One more thing: Over at alegrescorner, NewHampster is beginning the weekly Tweety Award for the journalist who “makes our sphincters contract, our toes curl and our weenies tingle.  Or they made you gag.”  Whoo!  There’s an image that’s going to malinger awhile in the grey matter.

Submit your nominee today!

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453 Responses

  1. hey RD love you!

    fuzzybeargville

  2. I think the Dems are doomed. Of course, I’ve *been* thinking that for four, six months now…*sigh*

  3. If your mom likes McCain now, just give her a peek at some of the vile language directed at Governor Palin by the fauxgressive blogs. She will never consider another Democrat again.

  4. Sarah Palin is one of “those People”.
    She gets it and will understand regular Americans better than anyone on either ticket.
    Too bad the dems were so stupid.
    We could have had the best.

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  5. RD, I did the same with one of my siblings, a pentecostal evangelcal (please don’t ask how that happened) said the same thing as your mom.

    Why wouldn’t Sarah Palin be appealing to both women and social conservatives on some topics.

    If my PUMA cub had the same problem, I’d make sure that whatever SHE decides to do, I’ll back her move every step of the way.

  6. http://hillbuzz.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/shocking-soetorobama-campaign-releases-sarah-palins-social-security-number-home-phone-number-and-other-vital-information/

    SHOCKING: SoetorObama campaign releases Sarah Palin’s social security number, home phone number, and other vital information
    Posted by hillbuzz under Uncategorized
    [4] Comments

    This just keeps getting worse.

    Today, the SoetorObama campaign, working with Alaskan Democrats, released opposition research files on Sarah Palin containing her social security number, phone numbers, and other vital information.

    These people actually released her home phone and social security numbers.

    http://blogs4mccain.com/2008/09/02/breaking-kos-scrubs-smear-diarists-lies/

  7. After tonights steaknight I am so glad that I have a place to go…..I find I have less and less in common with my friends and would love to avoid politics but their is one bot who bates me and he gets pissed when I dont back down…frost smy wheaties!

    I am going to refuse o co-operate with obambi for amerika or the DNC. I live in FLorida I know we will go 10 pts for McCain I do not have to vote for McCain, I just have to refuse to vote Obama.

    Fuzzybeargville

  8. RD- My evangelical family member is my oldest sister. We have never really talked about politics, that is until McCain picked Gov. Palin. My sister called me the morning of the announcement and has called everyday since. She is energized to the max. She is also pretty angry about the negative media attacks.

  9. Your mom must be bitter, Obama said so!
    Thing is, even I find Palin cool – and there’s not one political issue we see eye to eye. Except maybe fighting corruption. Someone commented – I think at Talk left – that Palin seems to have the same effect over Obots as the cowboy music had on the aliens of Mars Attacks: makes their brains explode! Somehow, the candidate running exclusively on “look how special I am” became yesterdays news. Ouch!

  10. RD, I am hearing the same from friends and family that are more conservative or even Indy. They love her. They look at her and see themselves.

    I don’t see myself so much as I see one of my 2 sisters. I have one who is evangelical, pro-life, yada yada yada. But you know what? She isn’t a hater, she’s smart, and practical, she is able to compromise, and she is a good and decent hardworking person who is great at her job Had she Palin’s experience, I would trust her on a ticket, even though we disagree on a lot.

  11. My hope – tomorrow night Bristol introduces her mother in the same way that Chelsea introduced her mother at the DNC.

    Put Bristol right up front and center.

    That ought to cause all of those who fear the VAGINA to run from their tvs to throw up in the toilet. The only problem – Obamaland sewers will backup when everyone flushes at once.

  12. Oh, and my sister isn’t pushy or dogmatic about her religion, either. She’s no zealot. She’s really great, and we are very close. So yeah, Sarah reminds me of her.

  13. That is Illegal to release Soc Sec Number under the Privacy rights Act 1974 as ammended in 2007. Social Security Numbers are protected from release under public information requests and any other request with out the express permission of the holder.

    Since it was realeased I assume by this group with out Gov. Palins permission and the release of this information crossed Alaska State lines in a form of the internet this now becomes a federal matter.

    Some blogger somewhere is going to get a nasty visit from the secret service. This is Obama for Amerika approved harrassment.

    fuzzybeargville

  14. She’s outdoorsy, but feminine. She’s Republican, but a Feminist. She’s not for abortion, but thinks it’s a personal choice each woman should make. She has a powerful hot-momma physique, and is a great mom-figure to her children. She doesn’t come from the echelon of elistism, yet she’s smart & bold. She’s led the largest state in the union and drives a Jetta to work. Gave oil tax money back to Alaskans and sold off the Governor’s jet. Now she’s supporting her daughter’s decision and will help her – what’s not to like?

  15. The “Progressive” movement 1.0 has confirmed the worst Rightwing cliches about the Left just in the last 4 days.

    I have very good sources within the Conservative movement. Both parents of my friend and neighbor are proud militant Rightwingers. His dad is a 40 yr DC veteran who graduated from West Point and Princeton.

    They didn’t care much for McCain until he chose Palin. My friend’s mom called him in tears because she was so moved by Palin’s story and how much she loves her.

    Btw, my friend, a lawyer who has become an independent and was leaning towards Obama, he is now for Palin.

  16. Fuzzy: YOU TELL THEM!

    Kos is just as bad or WORSE than Michelle Malkin.

    RD, I’m so glad you’re not there anymore.

  17. edge: That post was not an endorsement. It was merely a report from bible belt PA.

  18. MAblue: Wow!

  19. My Obamabot friend just e-mailed me the following:

    “How much longer do you think she’ll be on the ticket.”

    My reply:

    “I’m guessing 2012”

    It’s so funny yanking his chain!!! 😀

  20. I am watching the Republican Convention. This is the first time I have done so since 1960 (parents made me watch).

    Up to 6 months ago I hated that party.

    My, my, my…

  21. An Interview with your average fauxgressive:

    Question: Did you know that teen pregnancy in the African American community is three times more prevalent than in the population as a whole?

    Answer: So what? It’s a cultural choice. It’s of no consequence whatsoever. If you think it is, you’re a racist!

    Question: Did you know that teen pregnancy in suburban communities is increasing while it has actually been decreasing in rural and urban areas?

    Answer: No, I didn’t know that. But what difference does it make. Why are you even bothering to tell me that?

    Question: Did you hear that Sarah Palin’s 17 year old unmarried daughter is pregnant?

    Answer: I just knew it. What can you expect from these hicks! This just proves that Governor Palin should never have been nominated! She has five kids, she likes to hunt, she likes to fish and her teenage daughter is pregnant. It’s par for the course for white tr**h like Palin. Teenage pregnancy makes me so mad!

  22. Yeah I would love to talk to my Mom about this, she is a pro-life Catholic Woman but again she gets along with everyone and accepts people as “gifts from God” and some gifts are more challenging but she says acceptance is not agreement.

    Often me and mom agree to disagree. That is the difference between mom and the Obats she can get over it that I am not going to agree with her on everything. She prays for me every night…I appreciate that.

    Fuzzybeargville

  23. She is energized to the max. She is also pretty angry about the negative media attacks.

    1/2FLvoter: I was thinking about that: our Republican sisters are now going to understand our pain about how Hillary has been treated. They are going to experience it for themselves now.

  24. I saw last night’s Colbert Report tonight. The guest was a “social conservative” who was AA. He admitted that the only reason he was voting Obama was because Obama is black. He thinks just having a black President will end r*cism, and that is more important than any issue.

    Tell me why I shouldn’t vote my vagina again?

    GET OVER IT!!!!

  25. britgirls: {{snort!}} I love email. There’s always time for a devastating retort.

  26. Fuzzy – FuzzyMama sounds so sweet!

  27. britgirls, good one! i hope you don’t mind if i borrow it. 😀

  28. New McCain ad “Introducing Gov Palin”

  29. AAAACK, I’m in moderation for the word “v*gina”?

    Help, RD!

    (thanks for the report from the bible belt, btw!)

  30. Dee — I am so with you !!! I have NEVER watched it. I am learning a whole lot about myself. The Dems are so out of touch.

  31. fif, on September 2nd, 2008 at 9:46 pm Said:
    She is energized to the max. She is also pretty angry about the negative media attacks.

    1/2FLvoter: I was thinking about that: our Republican sisters are now going to understand our pain about how Hillary has been treated. They are going to experience it for themselves now.

    Hillary had Republican and Independent that lean Repub women since the get-go.

    I hope that whatever happens, women from both sides of the aisle can merge together to say “NEVER AGAIN” to this awful display of misogyny.

  32. Charles – Ummmm….what happened to you last night?!

  33. When I posted here before, I mentioned that I wasn’t a Democrat and I wasn’t voting for Hillary either. I want to make sure you know that I am not a member of the PUMA brigade and that I am supporting McCain and Palin.

    What I really wanted to do was to say thank you, every one of you, for being willing to see that a lot of those who call themselves conservative are not strict moralists. I’m one of them. I have conservative views, but I don’t impose them on anyone.

    Anyhow, as I said, this comment is merely to say thank you and that it’s completely awesome seeing the level-headedness of most of the people here. It helps to restore my faith in the human element, and to understand that there are people who believe differently from me, but are willing to join me when they see crap flying around.

  34. britgirls-

    Great tell you obama bot friend that unlike “the one” Mccain is a loyal sailor will never abandon his shipmate under fire in fact this will make him more loyal and more supportive of her…Americans respect loyality…

    With Obama its once I have used you and you become a liability to me its -“under the bus”….Americans are wising up to Obama. When their Convention is over The big guns come out.

    America is so Post-Obama!

    Fuzzybeargville

  35. SOD – I KNOW!!!! What the H*ll is wrong with them?!

  36. WMCB: Whoo-doggy! That ad says “breath of fresh air” all over it. I can almost hear the meeting with the ad people: “We need an ad that says, “breath of fresh air”. You know, one that relates breaking the glass ceiling with scenes of the pristine Alaskan landscape. One where you can taste the wintergreen.”
    I’m giggling silly at the thought of the Obama campaign losing its grip on the evangelicals. Well, at losing its grip, period.
    😉

  37. M H R, I think a lot of us normal people on both sides of the political divide really would like to take our country back from all the crazies. Thanks for your honesty.

  38. Charles … are you hanging out at Hooters, or what?

  39. sm77…you said “She’s not for abortion, but thinks it’s a personal choice each woman should make.”

    Where did you find that information. I was under the impression she wants to overturn Roe v. Wade. If that’s not true I would really like to know. Thanks.

    Mountain Sage

  40. I watch both conventions every time. I usually snipe at the RNC, but this year is weird. Really frickin’ weird…

    Except for right now…I got nuthin’ nice to say about the Bushies and can’t say anything but FU to this sad excuse of a man.

  41. Yup, RD. All those evangelicals Obama was courting? Gone. The moderate Indy women? Gone. The blue-collar rural folk? Gone.

    I believe Palin will pull all of those groups.

  42. MHR: thank you for that outreach. We are all part of the human family, and the viciousness on both extremes needs to be protested. We can disagree with decency. I will stand up for Sarah Palin as a woman as fiercely as I defended Hillary. It is not about politics, it’s a measure of our humanity.

  43. Who knew Rightwingers could be so witty?

    HOW THEY COULD HAVE KEPT THE PALIN PREGNANCY STORY OUT OF THE PRESS: Leaked it that John Edwards was the father . . .

    Come on guys, this is really funny.

  44. Bush is speaking right now. So many firsts: I am now listening to Bush. He is emphasizing McCain’s readiness to lead, his character and ability to make difficult decisions as president.

    “If the Hanoi Hilton was not able to break John McCain’s resolve to protect and serve his country, you can bet the ANGRY LEFT never will!” Good line by W!

  45. I’m really liking Sarah.

  46. M.H.R., on September 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 pm Said:
    When I posted here before, I mentioned that I wasn’t a Democrat and I wasn’t voting for Hillary either. I want to make sure you know that I am not a member of the PUMA brigade and that I am supporting McCain and Palin.

    What I really wanted to do was to say thank you, every one of you, for being willing to see that a lot of those who call themselves conservative are not strict moralists. I’m one of them. I have conservative views, but I don’t impose them on anyone.

    Anyhow, as I said, this comment is merely to say thank you and that it’s completely awesome seeing the level-headedness of most of the people here. It helps to restore my faith in the human element, and to understand that there are people who believe differently from me, but are willing to join me when they see crap flying around.

    We are for Democracy in the Democratic Party and we are for equal & fair treatement of all people – no matter what party they belong to.

  47. Mountain Sage, she is STRONGLY pro-life, and advocates for it as a moral choice. But she seems to shy away from anyone pinning her down on legislation, etc. She seems, from what I can tell, to be not so hot on zealously pursuing it as a legal matter. She has neither pushed for nor signed onto any anti-abortion legislation in Alaska.

  48. Now Bush is talking about making the tax cuts permanent and off-shore drilling.

    “John is an independent thinker. He is not afraid to stand up for what he thinks is right, believe me, I KNOW.” [laugh]

  49. River Daughter, you, as my kids say, rock! Your opinions are spot on. Keep up the good work.

  50. MHR – You know the best thing about this horrorshow of an election?

    Re-discovering that people don’t have to hate each other when they disagree. Both the left and the right have demonized each other for so long, we’ve forgotten how to listen and talk to each other.

    Thank you for saying what you said, MHR. It means a lot to hear it.

  51. Bush mentions that McCain said he would rather lose the election than lose the war, “that is the kind of person with vision and courage we need as CIC.

    For Bush, this is actually a strong speech with conviction.

  52. Gah, I cannot watch Bush.

  53. I love my mom she had 5 kids to and her daughter had found herself with child and married the guy they had been dating for years-now they have 4 kids(one set of twin girls/she still gets into a size 5/Hate her.)

    My middle brother has same situation married her did not work out but he has 2 girls who are college grads and one has a wonderful little boy.

    I can Guess what my mom thinks about the attacks on Gov. Palin. I can bet she is so pissed she will work for McCain-she also met him once-so she has that personall connection. Her Husband served in Vietnam too.

    Gosh poor Obama(snark) what a total F*ckup!

    fuzzybeargville

  54. MHR:

    Yes there is too much vitriol, too much angry, hotheaded arguing.

  55. If she weren’t strongly anti-abortion, the religious right wouldn’t support her like they do.

    I am not voting for McCain/Palin, and I’m not voting for Obama/Biden. We have no real choices AT ALL.

  56. Saw Ann Coulter on CNN singing the praises of Palin to Glenn Beck. I realized anew that however attractive and accomplished Palin may be, she’s awful on issues.
    Right now, neither ticket gets my vote.

  57. However… G W Bush is on right now, as we speak, and I have to say that he does sound like a 2nd grader giving a book report.

  58. I cannot listen to GWB.

  59. Everyone, thank you. As a student of Asian Studies, I follow the Japanese tradition of bowing in honor.

    I can guarantee I’ll be returning here. Y’all are just welcoming.

    Thank you for welcoming this conservative independent into the fold (Yes, I am a registered (I).)

  60. Sweetie Sue:

    And Ann Coulter is too extreme. She is another whose opinions are suspect simply because she is so vehement. I think shee just needs a good man. Sorry, but that’s how I feel. Something is not quite right about Ann.

  61. MRH:

    Osu!

  62. It looks like Bush is speaking from the White House. LOL! Too funny. Weren’t they going to send him to NOLA? Anywhere but Minneapolis-St.Paul.

  63. susannunes, she is of course strongly pro-life. What I meant was that based on her record (not what she says), I don’t see her being in any big hurry to DO anything about it.

    Put it this way – Sarah Palin, despite her statements, looks about as fervent to outlaw abortion as Obama is to protect it. Which is to say, not much.

  64. MHR:

    Are you from the south? MY sensei in Atlanta was Saiko Shigeru Masutatsu. Osu!

  65. Susannunes – There is no need to guess about her views on abortion. Here is some information for you.

    Personally, I think she is not too different from Obama. She thinks women shouldn’t get abortions “just because they’re feeling blue” either.

  66. Oh look. It’s an homage to the Great One, Ronald RayGun!!

  67. I kinda like Cindy McCain. She seems to be very active in a variety of good causes.
    JAY-sus! Listen to us. These people are so wrong, wrong, wrong on every fricking issue and yet, they are actually *likeable* this year. WTF?!

  68. Oregon, transplanted and grafted from Minnesota.

  69. The one thing that struck me with the first day of the republican party, is how they have gone to great lengths to honor the leaders and members of the party for the right things they did; Lincoln, Roosevelt, George H. Bush, Reagan. Compare that to the dem convention that tried so heard to marginalize and demean Bill Clinton!

    The latge departed democratic party as we knew it!

  70. LOL!

  71. I feel as if I am having an out of body experience as I watch the GOP convention and hope that Sarah and Mac will hit it out of the ballpark.

    I started counting the days in 2000 until the democrats would once again be in the WH. 8 years later it is almost inconceivable that I am voting for an addition 4 years of republican rule.

    It makes me angry that the democrats gave me no choice and that their behavior may have driven me from the party permanently. If BO gets elected I will probably never vote for another democrat again.

  72. Yep, felizarte. The Republicans always iconize their presidents – it is one of the ways they keep winning. We don’t.

  73. I can’t believe you all have the stomach to listen to GWB. He literally causes nausea in me.

    Unfortunately, Obama has the same effect on me.

    Tonight we looked briefly at Bill O’Reilly and KKKarl was on. Hubby and I both screamed when we saw him. It was a totally visceral reaction.

    What a bizarre state of affairs.

  74. RD and Pumas luv ya :heart:

    Who ever said Sarah Louise Heath Palin is one of ” those people ” is absolutely correct . People fall in love with her because even while you realise you may not agree with her; she is genuine to the core .

    One of the biggest differences that women in the work force have made over the years ( despite the fact that the Demographic party is behaving as if it were 1958 IT IS 2008) is that women are known for being able to work together and get the job done ; despite differences on non relevant issues. What woman has not gone to school with; has a family memeber , or known or a fellow worker who disagrees with them on some fundamental issue ..but is still able to get along , get the task at hand accomlpished ; and find areas where they do agree and them agree to disagree about other issues . We do that here on a daily and sometimes even moment to moment basis, without attempting to coerce anyone to our own personal viewpoint. That isjust one of the reasons that women are more reasonable about Sarah Palin. They recognise a kindred spirit in wanting to get the job done and can agree to disagree on some issues.
    I am thinking it is enitrely possible that Sarah Palin could be popular on a level not seen Princess Diana . And we all remember how popular Charles ( Joe Biden)and the Queen ( bo) were by comparison .

  75. having trouble posting this – apologies if it posts more than once.

    look who is in the tank for BO:

    UK Guardian: How Murdoch called Obama-Fox truce
    Michael Wolff, a US media commentator who enjoyed unprecedented access
    to the 77-year-old News Corp chairman, describes in an article for
    Vanity Fair how Murdoch’s meeting with Roger Ailes descended into a
    furious dispute before resulting in a “tentative truce”.
    He outlines how Murdoch has enthusiastically courted Obama even though
    the Democratic candidate repeatedly snubbed his advances, and this
    despite senior News Corp executives having recruited the Kennedys to act
    as go-betweens…
    “Murdoch is strongly, if not firmly, in the Obama camp. How that plays
    out on Fox is another question,” Wolff said yesterday. ..
    “Fox has been his alter ego. For a long time he was in love with the Fox
    chief, Roger Ailes, because he was even more Murdoch than Murdoch. And
    yet now the embarrassment can’t be missed – he mumbles even more than
    usual when called on to justify it; he barely pretends to hide the way
    he feels about [Fox pundit] Bill O’Reilly…
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/03/uselections2008.barackobama

    this was the top story on Murdoch’s News.com site five minutes ago with
    “F***in” in the headline – it’s been moved down the homepage a little
    now but is still the top campaign story:

    VP candidate’s future son-in-law proud to be a redneck
    THE teenager expecting a baby with the 17-year-old daughter of
    Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin declared himself a “f
    ***in’ redneck” on his MySpace page.
    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24286416-5012572,00.html

    o’reilly’s has qualified every criticism of BO for months by saying he’s
    sure BO doesn’t agree with whoever/whatever, but it’s getting more
    obvious if u read recent transcripts that he is following his boss’s
    orders. weak excuse for not covering john edwards story; fulsome praise
    for BO’s greek temple moment, etc.

    if anything the DEM ticket is the Dubya ticket and the McCain/Palin
    ticket is looking more like a Dem ticket. nowhere is safe in the
    corpmedia. BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT.

    shame on the corpmedia.

  76. Mountain Sage: this is the quote I read:

    “Pro-contraception, pro-woman, pro-life
    What about the social issues that Alaskans, especially the party faithful who often decide primary elections, may find important? Here’s what Sarah Palin has to say about abortion.
    Palin said last month that no woman should have to choose between her career, education and her child. She is pro-contraception and said she’s a member of a pro-woman but anti-abortion group called Feminists for Life. “I believe in the strength and the power of women, and the potential of every human life,” she said.

    Not exactly the most ideal candidate for women’s causes – BUT it’s a hell of a lot better than getting stomped * kicked by memebers of your own party.

  77. Palin said on issues such as abortion it would not be up to the governor to make the final decision but up to the voter of the state on how they would like to proceed. It’s been posted here a few times over the last couple of days.

  78. Thompson is being attack dog.

  79. groups Obama will not get

    1) Mothers
    2)single mothers
    3)women who can Identify with mothers and single mothers
    4) Vuetnam vets
    5)wives of vietnam vets
    6)military men and women who need a leader they can trust to bring them home safely
    7) hunters and fishermen
    8)Post-Partisan Democrats
    9)bitter bluecolar folks who cling to God and Guns
    10)grandparents of all the above who served in Korea and WWII or who had spouses who served.
    11)People who eat meat
    12)Pancake eaters
    13)Outdoors men
    14)big Dawg and Hill
    15)fuzzybeargville

    Thats alot to have against you-now throw in the evangelicals….

    Talk about screwed seven ways to election day!

    fuzzybeargville

  80. (That LOL was for you, MABlue)

    Oy,,,they need fewer Reagan tribute videos, and replace the one DA with Dianne Wiest…

  81. swanspirit – Yes, Sister!

    (Straight) Men think Sarah is hot. (My hubby does.) Women admire her toughness and success.

    She is a lot more appealing than either Obama or McCain. Of course, no one compares to Our Girl…

  82. Fuzzy: Do you mean waffle eaters? LOVE your list.

  83. riverdaughter:

    I think we have the same problem. I am an avid Rightwing hater, but for some bizarre reason I’m now discovering that some of them are actually human and even likable. I think we identify them to much with the likes of Limbaugh and Hannity.

  84. I was enjoying the RNC until they said shrubbie was about to speak and then I had to leave….

    PS I think Ann Coulter is bulemic just my guess ..

  85. I did not know Laura used to be a Dem. New Respect for her.

    Still in love with Cindy. Modesty! It’s an art form.

  86. I’m a vet and I will vote for Obama. Sorry.

  87. Granny: Not angry anymore. Just amused. We have the power. It won’t be long now before Obama starts to whisper sweet nothings to us. That will be the time to roundhouse kick to the groin.

  88. sm77….thanks for the information. I checked the website that was posted above and she said this: “The legislature should do all it can to protect human life. ”

    I’m not saying it is a deal breaker for me, I just don’t know yet, but it definitely concerns me.

    Mountain Sage

  89. Hi MHR. Thanks. You know, I was reading a board earlier that’s supposed to be progressive and pro-woman, and I was extremely turned off by a snide, oh-look-at-me-I’m-so-clever-and-ironic post stating that Sarah Palin is a *** (I’m not using the word, it’s not sexual, just crass and juvenile) but she’s a woman and we need to speak out against misogyny. And my reaction was, “um, is this supposed to make me feel better? you’re supposed to be the enlightened folks who care about women?” I’ve been kind of down all evening.

    But somehow, your post made me feel a bit better. This whole electoral circus has made me question some deeply held assumptions about the world… and revealed to me a lot of the strange ways the world distracts people and makes them turn against each other, and we are the poorer for it. Have a good evening.

  90. Charles – It’s so funny that that happened to you! 🙂

    I will watch McCain and Palin tomorrow to see if I can bring myself to vote for them. That will be the extent of it for me.

  91. “who gives a shit if they teach creationism in elementary school”

    I do, but her position is apparently no different than BO’s.

  92. Join me Tonight guys,

    Tonight’s Show Special Guest: Co-Founder of the Denver Group Heidi Li Feldman.

    Topics: What’s Next?, Going forward in the 2008 Election, RNC Convention, smears/media frizzy continue against Gov.Sarah Palin, Polls, ETC. More guest to drop by, and much more to discuss!!!

    Join me[Matt] Tonight at 11PM ET!!!

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/My-Two-Cents

  93. I did not realize that Republicans were human until this election. Some of them are actually amazing people with whom I disagree on a lot of things. I’m okay with that actually. I just hope they’ve learned that lefties (liberals in my case) are people too.

    Go, John and Sarah!

    And please go, George.

  94. Also, re: creationism, Plain specifically said she did not want it added to the curriculum. But if it came up in class (often from students themselves it does) they should feel free to discuss it.

    I’m not sure how that is any worse than Obama’s stance – sounds the same to me.

  95. MABlue: Well, George, Laura, Dick and Lynn aren’t really human. They are soul sucking authoritarians and automatons. But McCain, Cindy, Sarah and Todd just seem different. It’s like they are trying to say, “We’re Republicans but we will not hurt you. You’re just thinking of our evil twins.”

  96. Wow. Is anyone listening to Fred Thompson. He’s doing a really good job. He wasn’t nearly this genuine and relaxed as a candidate for himself.

  97. wow this is just a harrowing story.

  98. Nice stripped down set too. Bloody red but no crosses.

  99. Well looks like I am getting a play by play with out watching the RNC…talk about an embarrassment of riches…thanks to all you who can watch.

    love Fuzzybeargville

  100. are you all listening to this story about McCain?

  101. “All I can say in retrospect is, don’t sell out you principles”

    No worries, Obama and the Obots already did that for us.

  102. Thompson is recalling McCain’s life story, and painting a very detailed picture of his imprisonment–the entire Convention Center is silent, it seems like no one is moving. People probably do not know this story about his life–it is very powerful.

  103. You can’t have a marriage cert months early. You have to get married within 30 days of issuance.

  104. Thank you Matt!

    My post is below this one – but hopefully RD & everyone will see it to log on.

    Good luck!

  105. Granny, you are a sick person.

  106. fif – Fred Thompson was a terrible candidate! Good heavens. He had to beg for applause after one speech, it was so bad.

  107. Granny: That’s the beautiful thing about America. You can vote for whom you want, even if you don’t agree with the party. When I was in Minnesota, I would always vote for someone like Collin Peterson, because I liked the guy, even when I was a registered Republican. The guy was genial, he had knowledge on important issues, and it worked.

    I still vote for Democrats time and time again, it’s just that a lot of the crop that’s out there are “beat-ye-over-the-head, over-the-top” nutballs. And they’re willing to do just about anything to get their person elected. (It’s on both sides, I’m just using this as an example.) If they work on the major issues I’m into (alternative energy, higher education, issues involving communications and radio/television), I’m good on them and will continue to support them.

    This election has shown me a lot about both sides of the aisle, and I’m quite happy being an independent and still voting for McCain. And you can be good on voting for Obama, because that’s America. We’re different, but we can respect each other’s opinion.

  108. Madamab I agree ..NO ONE compares to our girl she is a shining light on a dark night ….

    Michael P. Varvel

    …I love your list !!! but you know the Arugula Eaters Of America… The AEOA … try and prounounce that you sound just like you know who between sentences
    are such a large voting bloc.. could toss this election on its salad dressing
    hehehehee

  109. I can’t stand Fred Thompson, but he is doing a bang-up job for John McCain.

  110. Spam filter please!!

  111. SOD: If they teach creationism at my daughter’s public school – there will be a a HUGELY POed PUMA in tampa storming the School Board office.

  112. Granny: Well, Fred *is* an actor. Pimping stories is what he’s paid to do.

  113. THOMPSON:
    Being a POW alone doesn’t qualify someone for president, but it does reveal CHARACTER.

    Two questions we will never have to ask:

    Who is this man?

    Can we trust this man with the presidency.

    That is a direct slam at Obama. That is how they are going to frame this race.

  114. Why isn’t anyone pointing out that Michelle Obama worked as a law partner while raising little kids. Is the job of First Lady so minimal that she will be at home to meet the kids after school with milk and cookies? Or did she also drop her babies off at the daycare center (or auntie’s house or have a nanny or whatever) so she could have a career? Why is it okay for her and not for Sarah Palin?

  115. The sound bite from Fred Thompson — talking about John McCain – telling his story — AMAZING.

    Who is this man and can you trust him as President?

    That’s the question you should ask yourself. That should be McCain’s slogan.

  116. All right, time to go. Good night everyone, and send Granny back under the bridge!

  117. Charles,

    We still have to year the story about where you got breasts flashed at you.

  118. LOL! Did Fred Thompson call Sarah Palin a “breath of fresh air”? Do they hang out here or are we really just that good at spotting the narratives and memes?

  119. Are you listing to Thompson? He just testified that McCain was tortured and didn’t give up info. As in: torture doesn’t work. Does anybody remember Obama talking about this administration’s responsibility re: torture?

    NO?

    He is not running against the GOP – he ran and is still running against the (real) Democratic Party ( The Clintons and us).

  120. Please read Anglachel today, “Choices” which totally nails the moral center of the attacks on Bristol Palin and the article immediately preceding, “Political Issues and Tactics” which is a great analysis of what the Democrats are doing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and how successful they are.

  121. Character you can believe in. That’s their new slogan. Talking about JM going against his party, being an ass over earmarks, etc.

  122. FIF — you type faster than I do !!!

    BTW – I thought Palin’s husband was staying home and watching the kids.

  123. RD: I read McCain’s biography. He did not gloss over his early indiscretions and irresponsibility. He also did not inflate his heroism and always gave more credit to his fellow prisoners, honoring many of them as much stronger than he was. I found it very moving. Even if I don’t agree with his policies, this man has more character than Obama has ever demonstrated.

  124. RD…I don’t know we all found each other, but I think if all of us ran a PR agency or ran Congress either would be hugely successful.

  125. They should just put Sarah at the top of the ticket and be done with it.

  126. SOD, I feel you, it’s just driving me nuts that I’m seeing so many fauxgressives use “OMG creationism!” against palin without ever pointing out Obama’s position is the same. It’s one of their new big talking points.

  127. I can’t believe I’m watching the Republican Convention. This is so weird. Who am I? I am not saying I have become a Republican at all, I just haven’t even LISTENED to them for-ever, really. They are just not my “peeps.” Hillary is my peeps.

    I miss Hillary.

  128. Mrs. Obama, is that you?

  129. Oh no Meeshell’s feeling bitter!

  130. Digby posted this today about McCain and choice:

    McCain made a similar statement back in 2000, you’ll recall:

    Republican presidential candidate John McCain, when asked Wednesday what he would do if his 15-year-old daughter Meghan became pregnant and wanted an abortion, said it would be a “family decision.”
    “The final decision would be made by Meghan with our advice and counsel,” McCain said, speaking of himself and his wife Cindy.
    “I would discuss this issue with Cindy and Meghan, and this would be a private decision that we would share within our family and not with anyone else,” McCain told reporters in New Hampshire on board his campaign bus nicknamed “The Straight Talk Express. “Obviously I would encourage her to bring, to know that baby would be brought up in a warm and loving family, but the final decision would be made by Meghan with our advice and counsel.”

  131. You go FRED!

  132. I miss Hillary:

    Fif: Me too.

  133. Now Thompson is going after Obama.

    And now Congress: The least popular and unproductive Congress in history. [He doesn’t mention that Bush has blocked them at every turn, despite the weak-backboned ones.]

  134. SM77: See the Truth and Consequences post from Saturday on Creationism in public schools. There is a right way to do it that will not interfere with evidence based science. And if you could do it in such a way that would make the fundies sit on their heels and not interfere, wouldn’t you do it?
    Trust me, as an old school board person, the surest way to keep the fundies motivated and coming back for more is to lock them out altogether. You have to give them an option that is acceptable to them bit does no harm. It can be done.

  135. Michelle: Go back home and keep thinking about it.

  136. You don’t make citizens prosperous, by making DC richer.

    How can he say this stuff after 8 years of Bush? The epitomy of selfishness and greed. I mean, really.

  137. Granny voter turned into a troll? Character is an issue and all those years in the box in the Hanoi hilton count he was not at the ritz he ate pumkin soup tike his ship mates.

    Oh and so you know Alot of Vietnam POW’s and service members marriages did not survive the Homecomming! So dont go their it wasn’t just McCain! Who left his wife it was most of the returning POW’s whos lives had changed…People like my Dad for instance…Granny with all due respect to my elders FU!

    fuzzybeargville

  138. Hey moderator, I get get REAL hackers her to shut this piece of shit hag/fag rant-fest down in a heartbeat.

  139. Regency
    I agree about putting her at the top of the ticket, but geven the depth and breadth of misogyny in this country from both parties .. I have to say all of the misogynists will be more comfortable with voting for that ticket because ( i cant believe this is how this sentence is ending but you get the idea) …wait for it ..

    THE MAN is on TOP

  140. Ah Granny Voter – “It sounds like this is nothing but anger here. Come on in out da rain!”

    I expect to hear more of the same when I head off to Boston this weekend. My calm, cool and collected response – hell no.
    Because I don’t want my beloved country’s safety in Bambi’s hands.
    And you’re not gonna scare me with Roe v. Wade.
    And I have faith in dividend government.
    And I believe in nemesis – bad behavior will not be rewarded.

    MHR, welcome. Lately, I’ve been tiptoe-ing around my Dem friends and being comforted and encouraged by my GOP friends. One of the nice surprises from this surprising election cycle.

  141. Fred is really on a roll. “We don’t need a president who says the protection of an unborn baby is above his pay grade!”

  142. Okay, I’m snapping out of it…I just remembered that Thompson is a professional actor.

  143. fif:”this man has more character than Obama has ever demonstrated.”

    Obama has not demonstrated any character at all – or any class. He’s a zero. How’d he get where he is? I keep asking myself.

  144. blah blah blah, pout pout pout, stamp feet stamp feet from the bot. Next up: Michelle will hold her breath and turn blue if we don’t vote for Obama, she will she will she WiLLLLLLLL!

  145. I said this before on the previous thread. Sarah Palin is the type that people watch from the sidelines and realize that she’s a tenacious pitbull who would be great in politics.

  146. Fred Thompson speech tonight – AWESOME!

    Country First!

    John and Sarah ’08
    Hillary ’12

  147. Sophie – He was also a professor, I think – I’m not sure I’d have stayed awake in his class.

  148. I listened to Sean Hannity this afternoon in the car. He and Michael Steele agreed that if Obama had put Hillary on the ticket as VP, McCain would be dead in the water. Steele talked at some length about how horribly the media and the Dems treated Hillary and how they are doing it to Palin now. They are clueless. McCain is a shoo-in now.

    It’s pretty pathetic when the Dems are ripping women right and left and Sean Hannity and his guests are defending Hillary and talking about feminism. On top of that, they are the ones who are defending a young girl from rabid mobs of Obamabots. The world has turned upside down, and I’ll never see politics in the same way again.

  149. Michelle: There was no legitimate roll call. The delegates did not vote as they were elected. Nothing you say is going to make us change our minds about Obama or the DNC. if you wanted a Democratic president, it was in your hands before and during the convention to convince the DNC to behave honorably so there would be no question of who the people’s choice really was. They didn’t do that. instead, delegates were harrassed, intimidated, deceived, threatened with their lives. Some of their property was vandalized and their political careers were on the line as were the congressional races from their states.
    And you’re going to vote for the guy?
    And you’re calling US children??

  150. I’m quite uncomfortable with the idea of Palin as potential president. I won’t speak about her personal life, and certain parts of her record shows she does have guts and stands up to corruption.

    But, in addition to her lack of experience in foreign affairs, I am very uncomfortable about her views on a few things. First, I’m an animal lover and her war against polar bears and wolves disturbes me. She put out a bounty on wolves ($150 a head, and encouraged aerial hunting which even many hunters say is cruel), and she sued the federal government to try to have polar bears taken off the endangered species list. She is at odds with environmentalists and doesn’t believe global warming exists. She is against gay rights and although she vetoed legislation to ban gay partner benefits for state employees, she did so because of the legality and the state supreme court ruling and said she had to veto it because she had exhausted all legal options to fight those benefits. And then she supported a non-binding referendum to forbid gay partner benefits for state employees. She’s basically openly homophobic and too conservative for my comfort.

    So now I’m deciding what to do. I don’t want someone pro-war and so socially conservative (and in some ways intolerant) a heartbeat away from the presidency, and if McCain wins, I will be nervous and cringing at the possibility of Palin having the power of the presidency if, God forbid, McCain cannot serve. But I also don’t like Obama and frankly I don’t feel he in any way deserves the presidency. And I think the DNC (and especially Howard Dean and that nasty bag of garbage Dona Brazile) deserves to lose this election so the party can get back on track.

    So that’s my dilemma. Anyone else feeling that way?

  151. IronMan — Here, here — I am feeling pumped up !!!!

    Where is my Hillary !!!

  152. How can you stand to listen to that Thompson wingnut windbag?
    He’s a lousy actor, too-ruined Law and Order.
    Just my two cents

  153. I remember eight years ago Laura Bush said she was pro-choice and suddenly…….she went silent. I honestly thought they had cut her tongue out, and maybe they did and it grew back, but suddenly she’s all over this convention, talking her head off. what she’s saying makes me glad she was silenced, if only they had silenced her SO as well. but whatever…..I’m watching a repub convention and only hitting the mute button about 50% of the time. weird how things shake out. I still won’t vote for them, as of now anyway. god help me but I like Cindy a lot

  154. I agree Charles. They could really use that – if they framed it better.

  155. Wow…it looks like there are Republican Lesbians!

  156. Thompson gave a really goo speech. Cindy looks beautiful as usual.

    Can we have Hillery back now?

    I miss my gal!

    PUMA very Unhappy!

  157. Pat is tearing them up on MSNBC

  158. Carol, you’re so cute!

  159. I want my Hillary back.

    (Still4Hill: She’s already here.)

  160. Renegade, I am feeling that way, too. Absolutely.
    There just is no good choice this year.

  161. Reg – There you go again.

  162. Carol – I don’t know what’s worse, not knowing how to vote or not knowing which channel to watch. ((switching to MSNBC))

  163. I can understand very well why Lieberman is angry at the Democrat party. But the idea that our former VP nominee is speaking to the RNC is just sordid in some manner.

  164. I want my Hillary back as well, but will have to settle for taking down the bastards who beat her up and threw her to the curb.

    Yes, the Republicans are Stalin. But the immediate threat is that other guy, and I will make that pact with the devil to stop him.

  165. SweetieSue: I hated him being on Law and Order too. I liked the old guy.

  166. Granny Voter, shouldn’t you be out trying to recruit serial killers in states that don’t strip prisoners of their voting rights? Your natural constituency is more with them than with us.

  167. RD: I read your articles (hell, I read all of them!) – but I still feel that if you are going to teach “creationism” then open it up to all the major faiths of the world, i.e. Judeo-Christian-Islamic (which is basically the same storyline there), Hindu, Buddhist, etc. and in a philosophical/theological manner. Can it be posed parallel to known scientific data? Sure, but not to 5th grader. I think that involves a pre-course in world religions first, then a follow-up with creationism/evolution. Just my thoughts, of course.

  168. I think the shrub administration has given the impression that the president has this absolute power . They do not . He only attempted to increase it beyond the checks and balances that we are supposed to have. I think bo will take it even further he is a proven power grabber .
    Sarah Palin is not .

  169. Does anyone watch The Catherine Tate show on BBCAmerica? Granny Voter is Nan!

    “Worra f*ckin liberty!”

  170. Sorry for that rant but I considered her attack personal!

    Michelle is off base too these wippersnappers-

    so impatient cant wait 4 years for a good democrat want their cookie now! I cannot risk a 4 year Obambi failure in the whitehouse-It would so be followed by 12-20years of republican occupation of the Oval Office.

    I do miss having someone who supports my gay rights issues in the ellection…who was the last one who did-oh yeah MS Edwards and MS Hines-Kerry!

    Funny they were women! Michelle doesn’t like us so sad….

    fuzzybeargville

  171. Still4Hill: I’m always going.

    Anyway, this is not a year about good choices anymore. The only good choices are left for 2012. That means pick Hillary in 2012 by picking John or pick Sarah in 2012 by picking Obama today. He will ruin the Party brand and she’ll be a shoo-in.

  172. Lieberman is up. Talking about the hurricane and how it brings us all together. He’s going to have a tough time following that performance by Fred. He reminds me of Kermit the Frog.

  173. I feel that while McCain could damage my country (and also maybe do a little good in the area of corruption, etc), Obama could fucking destroy it, and the entire democratic process with it. No contest, for me.

  174. SophieL: Adam Schiff! I loved him. Always thought he had the greatest job on television-sit around and grouse for five minutes. My dream career!

  175. wcmb: I want my Hillary back, too. And I don’t want to settle – no deal!

  176. You gotta love all these RNC delegates. They are soooo different than the DNC. I especially like the black RNC delegates. Who are these people?

  177. Lieb quoting George Washington: The spirit of Party could be the worst enemy of our democracy.

    Today we are living through that nightmare in our capitol.

    That is what brings me here tonight. What is a Democrat like me doing at a Republican Convention. [big laugh]

    I am here to support John McCain because country matters more than Party. [there’s another major theme for ya]

  178. Charles – right – everybody should take a look at that. In fact I saved parts of it. Excellent work.

  179. Republicans have nice clothes.

  180. I want Cindy McCain to adopt me.

  181. Joe could use some restylane injections.

  182. Ann Coulter was boasting she’d vote for Hillary
    (over McCain)…it was staged Fox theater? I think whatever she says is
    for effect, although I don’t care to know any more
    about her.

    I know a Dem who was going to vote for McCain
    if Obama didn’t come out as the candidate. She
    hated Hillary for not leaving Bill, and believed
    all of the HuffPoop smears on Hillary. She said
    she was a lukewarm Obama supporter (and
    never volunteers or donates even when she ranted
    against Republicans who were running for President.

    Thing is, she made a good case for John McCain…
    about how he’d have to end the war brought by
    Bush (and I always thought sold by the media) and
    deal with the sinking economy. If a Dem were in the next
    four years, they couldn’t be effective, and it would
    be the end of Dem rule for a long time.

    I can’t read the tea leaves? If I were caught in
    dire straights, I’d trust Hillary or McCain to help me
    out. I wouldn’t have any confidence in Obama, sorry.

  183. Obama should have picked Lieberman – a perfect pair!

  184. Reg: her kids seem down to earth coming from such wealth, much more than the Bush family.

  185. His whole life demonstrates a great truth. Being a Dem or Republicans is important, but it is nowhere near as important as being an American.

    Both candidates have talked about changing DC and breaking through the poison of partisanship. Only one of them has actually DONE it. That one is John McCain.

  186. Deep breaths, Charles. Distract yourself with something innocuous. Look at some boobies or something.

  187. sm77, i agree ,
    i just had this very discussion with a close friend. Every culture has a creation and a destruction myth .Unless you teach them all , you are crossing the line and blending government and one religion . Personally I think everyone wuold be better served by teaching anthropology in grade and high school , but then that is just my pet thing 🙂 MARGARET MEAD was a GODDESS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead

  188. WMCB: LOL! I don’t think “boobies” are what Charles is looking for, right Charles?

  189. Oh GOD! You see? That’s what kiki was talking about days ago – the framing. They framed their convention kick-off with this hurricane – and Obama sent some emails.

  190. Ben Carlson: They’re Americans, just like ye and thyself.

  191. Charles, please don’t tell me you are nervous about “BO gaining traction.” I look to you for optimism and assurance that there is no way he is going to pull this off!

  192. fif, on September 2nd, 2008 at 10:46 pm Said:
    WMCB: LOL! I don’t think “boobies” are what Charles is looking for, right Charles?

    No, but they’re what he’s looking at, apparently!

  193. fif, that’s why I said something innocuous, not exciting. Charles was being flashed earlier.

  194. SM: That is my point exactly. We learned the Navajo creation myth in 10th grade biology. The purpose being to describe what creation by supernatural being is all about and that every culture has a different version of it. It is faith based, not evidence based. And if that’s your cup of tea, more power to you. End of story. Moving on. “All cells come from pre-existing living cells…”

  195. Swanspirit & SOD: Exactly – they need to open it up – Creationism from an anthropological view is GOOD in my book. Then taking that and follwing up & applying it to hard science – also GOOD.

    But no: “it was done in 7 days and the Earth is 6,000 years old and that’s final” stuff.

  196. Bill is innocuous and distracting. Google him!

  197. No, but they’re what he’s looking at, apparently!
    ———————————————————————

    Sweetie LOL!!!

  198. Absolutely Charles. Ultimately, we will all go on no matter what the outcome. We survived 8 years of Bush…our country has taken an ugly turn since 2000. And we are seeing it repeated but by dems this time. All of us are just caught in the middle. Comes down to Ohio, PA, MI.

  199. On behalf of the third smallest state in the union (CT), I apologize for Joe Lieberman.

  200. Kiki, I really like Cindy McCain too.

  201. Let me be perfectly clear!

    If they don’t give us Hillary back, vote candidate Y!

    Nite, Nite.

    I’m too sad!

    PUMA HAKA 👿

  202. Lordy, Bill Clinton is getting applause at the RNC Convention…

  203. sm77: But no: “it was done in 7 days and the Earth is 6,000 years old and that’s final” stuff.
    ———————————————————————————-

    And, unfortunately, that doesn’t quite fit the Obama Messiah story having been born of a black man from Kenya and a white man from Kansas.

  204. Lieberman:

    Let me tell you something that I can uniquely do as a Democrat. They all know about John’s record of independence and accomplishment. That is why they are spending so much money to convince people that he is someone he is not. [ie: a third Bush] I am going to speak to the people out there: DO NOT BE FOOLED by the advertisements out there. God only made one John McCain, and he IS his own man. If John McCain is just another partisan Republican, then I am Michael Moore’s favorite Democrat–and I think that you know that I am not.

    Sen. Obama is a gifted and eloquent young man, and can do great things in the years ahead. But eloquence is not enough in these tough times. In the 3.5 years Obama has been in DC, he has not reached across the aisle and has NOT confronted his own party.

    Let me go one further: let me contrast Obama’s record against Clinton. He’s praising the Big Dawg and they are CLAPPING! He worked across the aisle, took on his own party and got a balanced budget.

  205. Joe is such a schmoozy snore.

  206. The fact remains that this was a mistake.

  207. Cindy just seems like she’s been doing all these good works for years, without fanfare or publicity.

  208. Can you imagine the creationist right being ok with teaching heathen pagan mythology in class …. right alongside christian mythology ..oops what did I say ??

  209. RD: We are on the same page – see, that Navajo teaching combined with science does offer an incredible viewpoint that would be missed had it been from either one end of the spectrum or another.

    PS: My PUMA cub wants to be a future scientist/archeologist (so far this is what she’s said for the past 3 years) and she’s a whiz in science & math.

  210. Well, it hardly requires clairvoyance to have foreseen that Sarah would be a hit with folks in OH and PA who cling to at least *one* of the following:

    1. Guns.
    2. Religion.

    Tomorrow she’ll come in, kick butt, take names and bring down the house– as a matter of fact, if Republicans thought like Democrats they’d probably play She’s a Brick House.

  211. I am haveing a hard time keeping up to granny voters silly rant-

    blah blah blah-I need my depends I mad poopie in the house of the conflu-blah blah blah-I am drooling down my house dress where is my bib-blah blah blah-

    fuzzybeargville

  212. Big Dawg just got more love from Republicans than he did fromthe Dems. Yes!!

  213. I find most republicans to be windbags —– but right now I can listen to them a lot easier than I can Obama, his wife, Brazillenut and some of the others.

    Fred gave a good speech — which was a surprise.

    At least ALL THE REPUBLICANS are standing up against the media regarding Palin. Again tonight one guy said – I have 3 kids and I am DISGUSTED with the questions Gov. Palin is being asked.

  214. It is an alternate universe when Bill Clinton gets applause at the GOP convention. I’m sorry but I am LMAO. Someone wake me up!

  215. Lieb on Palin:

    She is a reformer and a leader we can count on to shake up DC.

    That is why I believe that the REAL TICKET FOR CHANGE this year is the McCain/Palin ticket.

    Washington bureaucrats and powerbrokers will not be able to build a pen that will hold in these two mavericks.

    We do not need more Party unity, we need more NATIONAL unity.

  216. bbiab wanna catch a bit of ole joe

  217. Charles, Obama is not going to win. Here’s why: 1.) Republicans for the most part fall in line and do what they’re told. 2.) Obama pissed off half of his based and it doesn’t take many of those 18,000,000 voters to swing an election. 3.) McCain secured his evangelical vote. See, Obama was hoping to replace US with THEM. Now, they’re off the table. 4.) PA is really so not looking good for Obama. If he loses PA, he is in such deep $%^@. 5.) McCain and Palin are lookin’ pretty good right now. We know Obama can’t debate. Let’s see what happens.
    More popcorn?

  218. Sarah Palin an the creationism debate – I thought she had said that she was open for it coming up under discussion but that she never said that it SHOULD be taught in public schools, just that she thought if it came up it could be part of a healthy discussion. I am in the science field and I believe in evolution (and only evolution, sorry if that offends anyone), but I don’t see how one could argue that it cannot even be discussed if talked about…

    Does anyone have evidence that her statements go further than this?

    (For the record, I am sitting out as of now, not going McCain/Palin due to McCain’s lack of a health care plan)

  219. Still4Hill: LOLOLOL!!!! THat video was hillarious! Wonder if that man was Anne Coulter?

  220. dunno madamab — but I need a chiropractor to fix my neck muscles from all of the head shaking I’ve been doing.

  221. Holy Joe is making good points, but he is a BORE.

  222. 48; These are strange times…..

  223. sm77: I think his name is Moran – no pun or typo

  224. I cannot believe they applauded Big Dawg as loudly as they did.

  225. She’s a brick- HOUSE.
    She’s mighty, mighty
    Just lettin’ it all hang out.

    Does cheesecake sell for VPs?

  226. Bill is officially the most beloved President of our generation. Eat that, Dumbocrats!

  227. Lieberman just made the PUMA appeal.

  228. If he loses PA, he is in such deep $%^@.

    Concise.

  229. sod – right – then McCain pulls the troops out, like Nixon did, and becomes the hero (again).

  230. Entire audience is holding signs that say “SERVICE”

  231. OMG, I hope Joe has SS protection.

  232. Charles: You will NEVER repeat yourself too much when it comes to the Big Dawg. That was our dogwhistle.

  233. sorry…they are two people I cannot handle.

  234. Charles,

    I have the feeling the Rep convention started with Fred’s speech.

    It’s so tough to listen to Joementum, I’m running out of Red Bull.

  235. RD, I prefer the old Heart song for Sarah – “Oooo! Sara-cuda!”

  236. Clinton Democrat – not a Party – a party. Clinton democrats are fun.

  237. Lieberman’s chairmanship is gone. Pelosi’s gonna be glaring like Cyclops.

  238. Lieberman wants to talk directly to Democrats:

    I know many of you are angry and frustrated. You may be thinking about voting for McCain, but you are not sure. You may never have voted for a Republican before. This is no ordinary election, and these are not ordinary time, but trust me, he is no ordinary candidate.

    You can always trust him to tell you where he stands. You can count on him to be what he is naturally, a restless reformer who will clean up DC and get American working again for all American people.

    I want to ask you if you: this year when you vote for the PERSON who is best for our country, not for the party you belong to…let’s come together to make a great patriot our next president of the US.

  239. Those talking about Pennsylvania: If it’s Obama losing PA, he loses the race. If it’s McCain losing PA, that was already figured in from what I saw.

  240. JJ: We are simpatico. I also think we should cover spontaneous generation and the garbage theory. Like I’ve said before, all three theories take up about 2 days. The rest of the quarter can be devoted to natural selection. No one gets hurt and the church ladies stay away from science class.

  241. sod – The year of the chamelian

  242. Awww, Wolf gushes about how Johnny Mac and Joey heart each other! Heh, it was kind of a weird thing to say, but it was cute.

  243. whew–I’m typed out.

  244. I remember mac saying that.

  245. fif: Ya’ know, I’m not sure the GOP wanted Lieberman to deliver that nessage since most of us hate his guts. But he’s probably all they’ve got now that Zell Miller is off dueling Tweety effigies somewhere.

  246. Reg – re Lieberman’s chaimanship and Pelosi – right – steam coming out of her ears. I like the image – her as cyclops. Goes with her face being so pulled tight.

  247. The lefties have no idea what they are making right now. I am hearing from so many people, women, men – regular people, how angry they are that the left is making such an issue of this pregnant teen thing. I personally am so angry I could spit.

    Regardless of the cheap political point that these idiots think they are making, at the center is a 17 year old girl. I cry for her. Does anyone remember what it was like to be 17? It is tough enough to be 17. Add pregnant and unwed, oh and did I mention that the details of her sex life were disclosed to an entire nation?

    A cheap political point. They think they are pointing out the “hypocrisy” of S. Palin. It isn’t hypocrisy. I’m sure abstinence only was the policy in the Palin household. The only thing those fauxgressives have uncovered is that abstinence only isn’t effective. Whoop dee doo. Wow – what a discovery. Who knew? Teens have been having babies together for eons while parents have been preaching abstinence for eons. Boy, you can’t fool those leftie boyz! They sure are smart!

    So now we have a modern day stoning occurring. Burn her! Burn the witch! Those dumbass lefties look like petty assholes.

    Meanwhile, Palin issues a statement standing firmly behind her daughter and welcoming her new grandchild. Good for her. That’s what families do. Palin could have taken many easier roads, but she chose to stand by her daughter.

    Unplanned pregnancies happen. Nearly every family preaches abstinence before marriage and the majority of people don’t practice what they preach. Sometimes pregnancies happen. Palin’s handling of this issue has been superb.

    I strongly disagree with Palin on the issue of choice (and lots of other issues). But the leftie boyz are crazy if they think the “hypocrisy” moniker will stick. Here’s a woman who stood by her values when the going got tough.

    All of their carping from the leftie boys is going to blow up in their snot-nosed faces. And I can’t wait.

  248. Charles – Oddly, they don’t seem to be interested in respect.

  249. Oh God…

  250. Heh, talk about in the tank. David Gergen sounds MAD at Joe Lieberman for basically not supporting Obama. Gergen also said Lieberman took personal shots…Lieberman did NOT take any personal shots at Obama, he talked about the fact that he is not yet prepared…

    CNN is nuts.

  251. Charles, Obama is not going to win.

    Thank you RD, now I can sleep soundly.

  252. sod – PA is like a state that’s a lot of states in one, isn;t it?

  253. JJ: Musn’t hurt Obama! Don’t touch Obama!

    As soon as someone mentions something as “off-limits and nasty” like his inexperience…oooooooo…they all come rushing to his defense like he’s a hurt schoolgirl.

  254. Calling out a VP’s daughter’s sex life didn’t work for Kerry – what makes Obamanation think it’ll work now?

  255. See ya M.H.R.

  256. Want to bet McCain/Palin get a bigger bump than Obambi/credit Card Joe?

    I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of Democrats take back the White House…

    And from ithe ashes of disaster come the roses of success! (props chitty-chitty bang bang)

    Oh I am tired of the trolls saying Hillary ran such a bad campaign-

    If the revese is true of Obambi then why cant his stellar campaign winn over a large part of his party that will not support him on November 4th.

    Also I see disconnect in the polls I think the number of people polling for Obama are afraid to tell pollsters that they will vot McCain because the perception that the pollster may percieve them as thr “R” word.

    fuzzybeargville

  257. SOD:

    I travel PA from border to border on a daily basis. Trust me on this…Oblahma is NOT going to win PA. It’s in stone.

    Then why aren’t his numbers much worse there now?

  258. McCain is certainly a character.

  259. HypeNJ: Actually, Palin is pro-contraception. But 17 year old girls are about as fertile as they come. On little slip up is all it takes.

  260. SM, what makes Obamanation think it’ll work now?

    They can’t stop themselves. They just can’t

  261. sorry to say that it’s falling on deaf ears.

  262. fif – they may be polling more in Phili vs. Scranton and Harrisburg.

  263. Renegade, on September 2nd, 2008 at 10:36 pm Said:

    Anyone else feeling that way?
    _________________________

    Just every hour of every day.

  264. fif: I can only speculate that they are oversampling some of the urban areas in PA. From what I hear from my relatives in Pittsburgh and Central PA, he has very little support in PA. Plain old people just do not like him, do not trust him, do not want him. It’s not a racial thing. They just don’t like Obama himself. PLUS, I think PA ranks just behind Florida as far as the state with the oldest voting population. As you get older, it gets harder to flim-flam you. People in PA can see right through Obama. I talked to many, many PA voters in the primaries who just didn’t think he was ready and REALLY resented being called racists. They aren’t going to let the Obama campaign get away with that.

  265. Hype-Jersey I agree with everything you said, except:

    I’m sure abstinence only was the policy in the Palin household.

    I’m not sure of that at all. Palin is not anti-birth control, and so I wouldn’t assume what sort of conversations about sex she did or did not have with her daughter. I know plenty of evangelicals who believe sex before marriage is wrong, but who still more than adequately equip their kids just in case.

    I had one churchgoing mom say it this way: I don’t want my kid to go drive recklessly, either, and caution them not to, but IF he or she did, I would want them to wear a seatbelt!

  266. I want a “Sarah is my homegirl” t-shirt.

  267. FRED THOMPSON WAS right about the talking heads!! Fred and Mort Kondracke had breakfast with Joe Lieberman this morning they proudly said. I have to agree that Joe Lieberman owes his party nothing.

  268. katiebird, on September 2nd, 2008 at 11:08 pm Said:
    SM, what makes Obamanation think it’ll work now?

    They can’t stop themselves. They just can’t

    I HATED when Kerry brought up Mary Cheney. It’s a such a low blow disgusting move. It was lilly-livered “concern troll” at it’s best. And I really believe that between the Swiftboaters and that “mary Cheney” comment lost him the election.

  269. SOD – I’m sticking with Eddie, too, since right after the nomination of Obama he said Hillary would be back in 2012 – he said it like he knew that campaign was already being planned.

  270. JJ, on September 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm Said:
    Sarah Palin an the creationism debate – I thought she had said that she was open for it coming up under discussion but that she never said that it SHOULD be taught in public schools, just that she thought if it came up it could be part of a healthy discussion. I am in the science field and I believe in evolution (and only evolution, sorry if that offends anyone), but I don’t see how one could argue that it cannot even be discussed if talked about…

    I don’t think it can be discussed side by side with evolution in a science classroom. It can be discussed as part of a philosophy class or class on religions or anthropology etc. But it isn’t science. Discussing it side by side, giving it credence in a scientific debate, on a scientific platform is a mistake. I think it might even be a good idea to use it as an example of why it isn’t scienct, in class.

    Creationism isn’t bad. It might even be “correct” (since it is unprovable either way). But it isn’t science.

  271. RD: it would be interesting to compare Ohio to PA. As I said earlier, it wasn’t a proud moment for my state but the only statewide D candidate that lost in 2006 was black. This will be a hard state for Obama.

  272. Fuzzy — no meateaters!

  273. SOD – But that was what I thought about PA – I’ve only been from Philliy up the river to Easton and into the Amish country a bit – but, like NJ (two states) there are regions in PA – several. It’s not monolithic.

  274. I live in NE Ohio and it’s almost like a Northeastern state in these parts. But the killing fields for Democrat is southern ohio around Cincy.

  275. madamab — cue up Beaker and the muppets please!! (I’ll never forget that post — my daughter and I rolled in laughter for hours).

  276. RD and other Pennsylvanians: are you not underestimating the large Obama support in Philly and its vast suburbs???

  277. SM, me too. When he made it, It was like hearing a balloon pop (ssssssssss)

  278. Clean up!!

  279. Charles: “Where this new but old John McCain has been for most of the last eight years I don’t know.”

    Maybe in the same place Hillary is today?

  280. KO is on – I can’t take it!! Switching!!

  281. Thank you Howard Wolfson…I am still hanging out there.

  282. WMCB, on September 2nd, 2008 at 11:10 pm Said:
    Palin is not anti-birth control, and so I wouldn’t assume what sort of conversations about sex she did or did not have with her daughter. I know plenty of evangelicals who believe sex before marriage is wrong, but who still more than adequately equip their kids just in case.
    I had one churchgoing mom say it this way: I don’t want my kid to go drive recklessly, either, and caution them not to, but IF he or she did, I would want them to wear a seatbelt!

    You could be right about that. I know many people like you mentioned who preach abstinence but who also equip.

    The leftie boyz would have us believe that SP said to her kid, “Go ahead! have all the sex you want! I don’t want to control YOUR sexuality – I want to control EVERYONE else’s muhahahahahaha!”

    🙂

  283. Whew! That was close. On Fox – watching Chris Wallace. Will this convention slam-dunk Obama?

  284. I am unsure about PA. But ben carlson, one advantage that Obama had in the primaries is that the Dem party “weights” heavily urban and AA areas with more delegates. The general election is not that way. It’s winner take all of the popular vote.

  285. i”m just thinking all those suburban philly women will be going to barack.

  286. Seriously — who cares?

  287. wcmb: “the Dem party “weights” heavily urban and AA areas with more delegates.”

    Isn’t that a little like Gerrymandering?

  288. sob, Nutter was one that I would have wanted on Hill’s short list for VP. I love mayor nutter!

  289. Katiebird – it was definitely that for me too. I CAN’T WAIT for Obama/Biden to put their foot in their mouth!

    No one knows what they had until they lose it, and I hope that Dems everywhere feel the heat from here on out.

  290. Clean up on aisle 7 please

  291. I know some of you do not want to vote McCain Palin and feel safe in not voting them or Obama because you know McCain is going to win your state. I would like to ask you to maybe rethink that during the next few weeks. I think we must do everything we can to defeat Obama and leave no stone unturned, take no chances. We need to do whatever we can to DEFEAT Obama and the DNC BY A LANDSLIDE in the electoral college and in the popular vote. To me that means even if you are in a red state, contribute to the McCain Palin victory. If you are in a blue state that will probably vote Obama, like me in California, vote for McCain Palin to try to minimize that margin of victory. It is only by taking these steps and voting in a solid bloc that we will ever send the clear message to the DNC that they can not ignore. HALF MEASURES WILL AVAIL US NOTHING. I am breaking my Democratic tradition of some 50 years. What is amazing to me is that as I have taken this stand against what I see as the worst political corruption in a party in my lifetime, I am seeing a defeated and wrong headed Republican party emerging slowly from the ashes of its own corruption and just maybe reclaiming what is good in its history, returning to its progressive roots embodied in Lincoln and Roosevelt. And you know what, if the Republican party reforms itself then that will be good for America and it will be good for Democrats because it will force us to clean up our own act. So I ask everyone who has not moved to McCain Palin yet, to really think about doing so because if Obama wins this election or even comes close, our message will not be heard and our grievances will not be addressed or resolved and our party will lay broken and defiled.

  292. My girlfriend made me change the channel to CNN – she wanted to hear their spin — kill me now —– they are so in the tank for Obama. Swear to g-d knee pads must be standard issue over there.

    Campbell is going after Lieberman for praising Palin.

  293. “Karma is you-know-what”

  294. ben; You mean the rich Philly ladies? Or just the suburban ones – middle income?

  295. Oh…and granny, go away!

  296. Sadly we PUMA’s will always get more respect from the Republican Party than the dems then as if by magic at 9 pm Wolfe Blitzer will say-at this time New Jersey is to close to call and PA is In the Republican coloumn I will know that sadly we Democrats once again “Screwed the Pooch”.

    I think alot of “safe” states are going to require vast resources to keep them in th Obama coloumn.

    fuzzybeargville

  297. Karma is a bitch named Hillary 2012.

  298. HypeJersey: Like I have said before, I am a scientist and I eat evolution for breakfast. In fact, I couldn’t do my job if I didn’t understand it intimately. And I am telling you that the beauty of natural selection can survive one day of science class talking about creation. In fact, I think it is necessary from a practical standpoint. If you do not honor the beliefs of others in some way, you will be confronting them forever. It’s hubris. Not because you know you are right and they are wrong but because you do not understand your limitations. You will NEVER get some people to embrace evolution. All you can hope for is to honor their belief system in some significant way so that they will not stand in your way.
    Trust me on this. When I was on the school board, the evangelicals loved me. You give them respect, they will work with you. You block them, they will come back to haunt you at every board meeting.

  299. fuzzybear — I will get my info from Fox news and this blog on Nov 4th !!! Maybe I should tape CNN that night so I can replay Donna Brazille crying.

  300. can someone please provide granny with a fresh pair of Depends and send her on her way????

  301. Still4Hill, yes, it is, to my mind. Also, the delegate counts are not what they were even in 2004. In late 2006, I believe it was, the DNC changed the delegate weighting again, to even MORE heavily favor those areas.

    It’s one reason why I believe that Obama’s run was a set-up even that far back. Those fuckers had already decided that rural or small-town voters would have less voice long before this primary ever began. They were throwing them under the bus from the get-go.

  302. Oh lookee here lookee here:

    Long Time Coming: O’Reilly to Interview Obama Thursday

    Do you guys remember when Hillary gave an interview to Bill O’Reilly? Among other things, that putrid piece of DNA waste Keith Obamaman went on Dailykooks and wrote a post thrashing her.
    She was called even more names from the Progressive movement 1.0.

    Let’s see how these cowards react to this.

  303. Reg-tsk-tsk-tsk

    Hillary is not a bitch and you do NOT deserve her! She’s a sweetheart.

  304. Sorry SM — for me it’s just another scare tactic!

  305. It’s much easier listening to Lieberman with the sound off.

  306. SOD: i would disagree about the impact of republican voting in PA. Many R’s reregistered to vote in the primary. Most R women voted in overwhelming numbers for Hillary. The suburbs of Philly had a lot of moderate R women who went Clinton. But most R men went for Obama. I did meet some exceptions. There were a few R men who recognized that Hillary was a much better candidate than Obama and were planning to vote for her. But many R men who reregistered were doing it to make sure Obama didn’t finish too far back.
    I believe they were the ones with the Stars and Bars hanging from the porches.

  307. Seriously: LOL! Lieberman is better than he sounds. Lieberman has good moments but bad quarters of an hour.

  308. wcmb – Then Party reform is going to be very complex since then current structure, leadership and primary “rules” are all completely screwed up.

  309. I think Thompson and Lieberman were VERY effective tonight. Brilliant!

    Showed that Obama has no record of change and no record of bipartisanship. I think the Independents and conservative Democrats respect Joe Lieberman and appreciate Lieberman speaking directly to them tonight.

    Roger that!

    Obama is crumbling and I for one can’t wait to see him fall flat!

    Vote America First!

    The real change ticket in 2008 is McCain-Palin!

    Both are mavericks! Both are reformers! Both put America first!

    No Way! No How! NOBAMA!

    Sarah Palin is going to rock the house tomorrow night!
    America will be watching!

    John and Sarah ’08
    Hillary ’12

  310. Greta’s on – closet PUMA/ PUMA by marriage.

  311. BOOO!! now go away!

  312. riverdaughter, on September 2nd, 2008 at 11:23 pm Said:
    HypeJersey: Like I have said before, I am a scientist and I eat evolution for breakfast. In fact, I couldn’t do my job if I didn’t understand it intimately. And I am telling you that the beauty of natural selection can survive one day of science class talking about creation. In fact, I think it is necessary from a practical standpoint. If you do not honor the beliefs of others in some way, you will be confronting them forever. It’s hubris. Not because you know you are right and they are wrong but because you do not understand your limitations. You will NEVER get some people to embrace evolution. All you can hope for is to honor their belief system in some significant way so that they will not stand in your way.
    Trust me on this. When I was on the school board, the evangelicals loved me. You give them respect, they will work with you. You block them, they will come back to haunt you at every board meeting.

    Calling it “science” or teaching it as if it is “science” is a mistake. It might gain you a few points with the fundies, but it’s just not science. There are ways to honor their belief system that do not involve treating creationism like a science.

  313. Still4Hill: bitch is not something to be diminished. Bitches get stuff done. Besides I wasn’t referring to her as a bitch but the campaign in 2012.

    Hillary’s a scorpio like myself. She can roll the hard 6. In fact, she’s rolling it now. Quite the expert.

    And yes quite the sweetheart too. So very warm. Don’t touch her “pantsuit” without permission. She’s touchy about that.

  314. Obama needs to go back to the Senate and take bowling lessons.

  315. Charles, Obama often overpolls. Of course, the media yells Bradley effect.

    I had an interesting conversation with Sugar once, about the fact that some of that discrepancy may in fact have been AA’s, especially women, who will never say they do not support Obama publicly or to a pollster for fear of social shunning. But they went and quietly voted for Hill.

  316. Wolfson said the Lieberman speech was VERY effective and would resonate with Independents. I agree.

    Wolfson will be voting McCain-Palin in November! He knows Obama is NOT the one for America.

    Country First!

    John and Sarah ’08
    Hillary ’12

  317. Reg – roll the hard 6? Forgive me if I’m naive….Wha…???

  318. MABlue, on September 2nd, 2008 at 11:26 pm Said:
    Oh lookee here lookee here:
    Long Time Coming: O’Reilly to Interview Obama Thursday

    I predict Obama will do crappy with Billo. It will result in a negative bounce for him. I thought Billo’s interview with hillary was one of the toughest and most fair interviews I’ve ever seen. Of course, Hillary was brilliant. But ahhh ummmm oo.. well.. ahhh.. Obama doesn’t do so well in serious interviews without a script.

  319. riverdaughter, i respect your opinion, but I’m not far off from sitting in a middle school and hs classroom, and I would have been furious if I was subjected to religion in school. It’s just not fair to the students. As it was, we had religious students who would challenge the teacher, and that’s fine, although they took it to an extreme and got disruptive a lot.

    Lots of students complained where we were made to sing religious songs at holiday concerts, too. It’s just not fair considering we have no option.

  320. and SM77 — I’m your biggest fan!

  321. well bed time for fuzzy hanna is on the way and I have to pack for along trip…

    night all

    fuzzybeargville

  322. I know some feel a bit sensitive about the word, but I agree with Regency on this.

  323. Does she have Tourettes?

  324. Good night Fuzzy!

    Good night RD & Conflucians, love you all!

  325. WMCB, on September 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm Said:
    Charles, Obama often overpolls. Of course, the media yells Bradley effect.
    I had an interesting conversation with Sugar once, about the fact that some of that discrepancy may in fact have been AA’s, especially women, who will never say they do not support Obama publicly or to a pollster for fear of social shunning. But they went and quietly voted for Hill.

    For what it’s worth, Limbaugh keeps harping on the “Bradley Effect” – says people are embarassed to say they aren’t going to vote for him (afraid of being called racist).

    (For the record, I despise Rush Limbaugh.)

  326. Still4Hill: It’s a mixed metaphor. Half “tribulations,” half “sex”.

  327. Huh???

  328. wcmb: “women, who will never say they do not support Obama publicly or to a pollster for fear of social shunning. But they went and quietly voted for Hill.”

    Considering some of his supporters, and living in an AA neighborhood, “social shunning” is something of a euphemism.

    Truth – my roommate and I intend to write Hillary in (NJ -we can). We’re a little scared of having trouble with the new machines and want to get in and out fast – all the ladies there know us – that we don’t have techie troubles usually. I don’t want to be followed home Nov. 4 – if you know what I mean – by anybody spotting that we are taking too long.

  329. Dunno I see this whole Palin thing pushing the Republican ticket further to the right and opening the center and even the right of center for the Democrats. I hear the daughter’s bf takes the stage tomorrow – they need to stop this madness. Like everything in this country of sound bytes – the “noise” is becoming deafening. Poor John’s message is getting lost. Palin might be a great politician but this quick move to the national stage is not doing her any favors. One thing is for sure its going to be must see TV. Her speech will probably get better ratings than any of the Dem’s nights. Partly from those who really want to hear her and partly from those thinking its going to be a preview of Desperate Housewives.

  330. OK – About “bitch” It’s just that the opposition threw that any so many other words at Hillary, I just get sensitive when I see it nest to her name.

  331. Its boring for sure.

  332. Still4Hill: That’s okay. I understand. Hillary is not a bitch bitch. She’s powerful, sexy, confident, brilliant and reassuring.

    mmm. She’s like double stuffed oreos–you can’t have just one or have her just once.

    That might have been sexist.

  333. HypeJersey: you are mistaken. Creationism is a theory, and as a theory, it is subject to the same criteria as any other theory. To me, it comes down to picking your battle. As I said before, the beauty of natural selection does not suffer in comparison to other theories. It is logical and elegant. So, knowing that, what is there to fear from 30 minutes discussing creation as an alternative theory? Or what about spontaneous generation? If giving in for 30 minutes out of the hours and hours of real science will appease your detractors, why wouldn’t you do it? Nothing says you have to believe it. You just have to present it as an alternate theory. Then, when you are finished, you can move on to the good stuff.
    Believe it or not, it is the people like yourselves that put the teaching of evolution most at risk. You are asking for a purity that the general public will never allow you. As long as you know that up front, you can work out an accommodation. As a scientist, I am telling you that giving in for a day will do you no harm.

  334. SM77 —

    Most major faiths of the world have a creation mythology.

  335. I will NOT be voting for any Republicans in 2008.
    I’ve decided I can’t do it.
    I’m strong pro choice – and Palin is against abortion even in instances of rape,, incest, and the life of the mother and health should it be in danger.
    That’s it – I’ve decided.
    It’s MY dealbreaker, period.
    I can’t live with myself taking the right to tthat choice away from any women ever in the future.
    Not my daughter.
    Not anyone’s daughter. The Supreme Court will rule this country for the next 100 years based on who gets in there.
    Can’t do this anymore – because of my hatred for one man.
    I’m lost – but the constant praising of two GOP scumbags on here is killing me.
    I did not realize this would be be a such a Elect McCain Palin blog.
    This is disheartening as I do not know where to turn to.

  336. SOD – Nite!

    Here:

    “The past is indestructible. Sooner or later things turn up. One of the things that turns up is a plan to destroy the past.” -Jorge Luis Borges

  337. Obama is evidently running a very ominous fear ad, saying in threatening tones that JOHN MCAIN WILL OUTLAW ABORTION!

    Jesus Christ, could the man be more clueless about women? He and his minions have already beat us with that stick to no avail. So his solution? Beat harder!

  338. Reg – That’s OK – Hillary and I forgive you.

  339. RD I respect the Idea of creationism in the classroom…because it is what seperates us from them our tollerance against their intollerance also it does honor the fact that for 1900+ for the last 2000 years it was science and infact the movement for creationism to natural selection was in itself evolution in action.

    fuzzybeargville

    1 final thought

  340. Still4Hill, on September 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 pm Said:
    OK – About “bitch” It’s just that the opposition threw that any so many other words at Hillary, I just get sensitive when I see it nest to her name.

    I’m much more sensitive about using that word since the primaries, and having it directed at my candidate and myself way too many times. I don’t use it anymore. I used to throw it around more casually with friends. Not anymore.

  341. Still4Hill: Bill forgave me long ago after he sat me down and gave me a firm, thorough talking-to.

  342. JohnnyBoy: Further to the right?! LOL! If it were any more right, it would be left. No, Sarah Palin seems like a person who has conservative personal values who yields to the rule of law. She is just appealing to the right because she walks the walk.
    That doesn’t mean she isn’t wrong about a lot. but she and McCain are not in the Bushie Republican mold. no matter how much sucking up McCain did to his base in the past 8 years, I believe he is much more independent than most republicans.

  343. MaBlue & Charles – pulling up stakes? I did that in late ’72 because of Nixon. I dunno – I stayed away 10 years. I hate to say this because I don’t mean it as racist – it merely is my frame of reference from those years, but I lived in Haiti – Obama reminds me of Henri Christophe.

  344. michael P Varvel, on September 2nd, 2008 at 11:46 pm Said:
    RD I respect the Idea of creationism in the classroom…because it is what seperates us from them our tollerance against their intollerance also it does honor the fact that for 1900+ for the last 2000 years it was science and infact the movement for creationism to natural selection was in itself evolution in action.
    fuzzybeargville
    1 final thought

    Sorry, it’s just not science. It never was science. It isn’t tolerated as a science, just like reading a poem isn’t tolerated as a science. Just like it isn’t math, it isn’t science.

    Only certain things qualify as being science. Other things aren’t bad, but that doesn’t mean they are science.

    When you treat non-science as science in the classroom, you are mis-informing students. Science is a method. There are ways to do science right. One of the fundamental things that children need to learn in k-12 is what constitutes “science.” It’s a fundamental. Muddling the waters by acting like something is a science when it isn’t, is negligence; it’s no better than telling the kids that they can get pregnant from toilet seats.

  345. I didn’t make my comment to stir a discussion on creationism.

  346. Hey HypeJersey, how can there be a negative bounce from a Billo interview? Aren’t all of his viewers Conservatives, Republicans? If there were any right leaning Obama folk out there Palin pulled them back from the brink. Just read that even Rupert Murdoch (Fox founder) is embarrassed by Billo.

  347. I just bumped Lady Boomer’s fabulous post for the Overnight Visitors.

  348. HypeJersey – See? That’s what I love about vocabulary – you can select or de-select.

    Now – tonight I tried watching Katie Couric – out of sisterly loyalty. She needs to stpo saying “sort of”.

  349. “Palin is against abortion even in instances of rape,, incest, and the life of the mother and health should it be in danger”

    No she’s not. She’s in favor with the life of the mother, health not sure.

  350. LOL, sod!

  351. Reg – I’m glad Bill talked to you – he loves Hillary BIG TIME!! I happen to know….

  352. Armegeddon!

  353. Orangecounty-a troll in our mttzed! this I was on your side but now “dealbraker” has been done befor and better than you clean up on ailse 3-some wne dropped a big big carton of organioc free range fed happy hen farm fresh eggs!

    fuzzybeargville

  354. MABlue: The cowards will react to O on fox by saying he has to do it now that Hillary went & sold out progressives by going there, raising the expectation that he has to go there.

    In other words, blame Hillary.

  355. State! Love that Drama Prairie Dog!

  356. Still: I happen to know too–seen it in action. Thank god he’s red or that red spot on his neck would have been conspicuous.

  357. RD — I agree. We’ve all seen this movie before.

  358. OrangeCountry, you do what you have to do. But may I point out that the Republicans have not done one diddly thing to outlaw abortion or overturn Roe in decades, despite having had MANY opportunities to do so, with presidents much more staunchly pro-life than McCain.

    It’s a moot point for me. I am more afraid of the Democrats continuing to use choice to KEEP ME IN LINE than I am afraid of the Repubs overturning squat.

  359. The women own this election. They just have to decidee how much power they’re willing to wield.

  360. Back from out of town for several days. Catching up!

    As a few others have commented on similar experiences….ran into a serious Republican I know socially. Fundraiser, etc. He said he was re-energized with Sarah Palin. He said his buddies in the party had been “going along” with McCain. Now, they’ve found new respect for him and are totally behind Palin for pulling the party together. Unity, yeah?

  361. [[[[ offering a shoulder for Charles]]]]]

  362. I think the Dems have gone and unified the wrong party.

  363. Nite Nite all sweetest dreams

  364. fuzzy, isn’t it funny that the OMFG ABORTION!!!!! dealbrealker!!!! comment turns up just as news of Obama’s new scare-ad is out?

  365. Hypejersey-sorry lets agree to dissagree the fact here is not that creationism is science I agree it is not science but it is history…and it is part of “the history of science” it is evolution in action. Just as Alchemy gave way to chemistry. How can you understand the science of now without understanding what got us to this place.

    fuzzybeargville

  366. It’s like a scene from Titanic.

  367. HypeJersey: As a “scientist”, I hope you will defer to us to understand what science can and cannot tolerate. The scientific method is robust enough to survive a 30 minute discussion of creation in a science class. In fact, that is how my high school handled it and I am none the worse for wear.

  368. I didn’t see this much anti-candidate sentiment when Kerry was running.

  369. RD is absolutely right about working with, not against, fundies. I’ve lived with, by, and around evangelicals or fundamentalists [they’re not the same thing] most of my life. They expect to be shut out by the liberal press or the secular world, and consider it part of God’s work to fight that exclusion. It’s easy to fit them all into a stereotype of weak-minded, opinionated bigots, but that is sloppy thinking and prejudice.

    I have also dealt with several fundies when I was a librarian, and have a lot of respect for many of them, even though I strongly disagreed with their views.

  370. “I think the Dems have gone and unified the wrong party.”

    LOL

  371. I pray that you are correct.

    Since the speaking part is over tonight, I am gonna retire for the night. Thank you, everyone, for welcoming me over.

    I may end up here tomorrow night, if I’m not caught in traffic on US 101. 🙂

  372. Someone above [Renegade?] stated that Palin didn’t believe in global warming. I’d like to see that source. I’ve seen several souces that she does, and McCain has been the most outspoken Republican on global warming, bucking his party for some time. I don’t see him selecting someone contradicting his strong belief.

  373. still4hill

    there are definite cultural regions.

  374. riverdaughter, on September 3rd, 2008 at 12:01 am Said:
    HypeJersey: As a “scientist”, I hope you will defer to us to understand what science can and cannot tolerate. The scientific method is robust enough to survive a 30 minute discussion of creation in a science class. In fact, that is how my high school handled it and I am none the worse for wear.

    Creationism can be discussed. I think it may even be a perfect teaching example of something that isn’t science. But it is not science. And “teaching” it as if it is is really misinforming students. This part about it not being science isn’t my opinion. It’s just the way it is. I mean – it involves a basic definition of science (even the courts saw it that way).

    One fundamental of “science” is that it cannot rely on “supernatural” beings. Science is based on empirical evidence, and science covers only those phenomena which lend themselves to proof (or disproof). Creationism doesn’t fit these criteria. You’re right about the scientific method. It’s the way science is done. “Studying” creationism doesn’t led itself to the application of the scientific method. Creationism requires belief in – faith in- a supernatural being.

  375. RD I agree with you. We also need to understand the historical aspect of how we got to the scientific model we have today. Teaching creationism and natural selection as its natural successor is in itself evolution in action. Alchemy gave way to chemistry. Astrology gave way to astronomy. These are taught in their historical context with where ew are now. How does this in anyway threaten the scientific method?

    fuzzybeargville

  376. OMFG. Huffpo has an article up “Hillary started it, now she must end it” SHE is responsible for calming down all the wimmins, because it is HER fault they are angry??

    Fucking assholes. You beat up my sister, I got pissed about it, but SHE needs to drag her beaten bloody self over here and tell me it’s okay, and you didn’t really mean it, or I didn’t see/hear what I think i did, it was all a little misunderstanding? These people are SICK.

    NO. NO. FUCK. YOU. These scum are no better than the abuser getting the family to stand there and tell the cop, “Nothing happened, it’s all fine.” FUCK. YOU.

  377. fif —
    Don’t trust the polling numbers.

  378. wcmb – At the risk of sounding like a Rush fan, DITTO!!!!!

  379. I think the polls coming out tomorrow will be favorable to Obama. McCain is just coming out of 4 days were his VP pick took relentless beatings and got trashed up and down.

    Worse for McCain, this all happened during a long week-end. The Rightwing noise machine just started to fight back on Tuesday. I think Palin can help herself tomorrow with a well delivered speech.

  380. POE, there’s lots of misinformation out there. The Obots are cooking it up, and people are repeating it. Many of them have good intentions, too, they see it everywhere, they think it’s true.

    “Why not teach aboriginal myths”

    *nods* And why not have Satanist priests at graduation? If we started having true equal time for all religions, then Christian fundamentalists would be the frst ones to say enough is enough, because they don’t want to sit through the satanist convocation!

  381. parentofed, on September 3rd, 2008 at 12:04 am Said:
    RD is absolutely right about working with, not against, fundies. I’ve lived with, by, and around evangelicals or fundamentalists [they’re not the same thing] most of my life. They expect to be shut out by the liberal press or the secular world, and consider it part of God’s work to fight that exclusion. It’s easy to fit them all into a stereotype of weak-minded, opinionated bigots, but that is sloppy thinking and prejudice.
    I have also dealt with several fundies when I was a librarian, and have a lot of respect for many of them, even though I strongly disagreed with their views.

    I had to do it too. When I was in grad school, I picked up extra money by teaching high school physics and chemistry. There are sensitive issues and you find ways to work with them that don’t involve sacrificing rigor in the very topics you’re trying to teach. One of those ways is simply being an excellent teacher and caring about your students – spending time with them etc. There are many other ways. I look back very fondly on my days teaching those kids. There is no reason why science and religion have to be at odds but I think it is very important to make a distinction between the two. Teaching them “side by side” sets up a false dichotomy.

  382. Ben

    Michael Nutter, PHila’s mayor and a big Hillary supporter.

  383. I don’t know if that’s as big a deal.

  384. I HATED when Kerry brought up Mary Cheney. It’s a such a low blow disgusting move.

    I hated that as well. Edwards did it first in the VP debate as I recall. In fairness I didn’t think Kerry had any idea it would be taken badly, he did not mean to offend. Someone gave him talking points and he was not savvy enough to realize that you do not bring the opponent’s family into it. I know he lost some votes that night.

    Far as Palin goes I already got in an argument with coworkers over it, go figure. I don’t agree with her on politics, but the sheer glee with which they bring up this stuff about her family and thinly sourced rumors and just anything they can to trash her, it sickens me. Politics of personal destruction indeed. Beginning to thoroughly despise my own party.. torn between whether to stick with it or register Independent.

  385. Sorry for the outburst, but that one just ticked me off. I did not go to Huffpo, BTW – saw an excert and title on another blog.

    Neither Huffpo nor Kos has gotten a single traffic click from me in many months, and never will.

  386. Charles I amnot advocating teaching any one myth over another and but in America the dominate myth (theory) is creationism. I as a 40+ year old man do not need to be taught anything in its historical context.

    As a man who has been “why’d” to death by his eleven nieces and nephews as they went through there inquisitive stage it is helpful to show them how we got here. thust me when I tell the 2 +2 = 4 they ask why or I say the american flag is red white and blue they ask why….

    If I say to them when they get older if you coke coal and iron molyibdium maganese and tungsten in the right quantities at the right tempatures you get steel thay ask how and why do we know this?Oh and why cant lead be turned to gold? I can give them some historical context of the movement from alchemy to chemistry asa movement from suedo to true science it does help their understanding.

    just my belief

    fuzzybeargville

  387. michael P Varvel, on September 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 am Said:
    RD I agree with you. We also need to understand the historical aspect of how we got to the scientific model we have today. Teaching creationism and natural selection as its natural successor is in itself evolution in action. Alchemy gave way to chemistry.

    Right. You mention it as history or as a study in how the scientific method was derived,without treating it as a science. I think that part is very important. It is important to make the distinction – show something that ISN’T a science and then explain what science is. If kids come to college armed only with a solid understanding of this distinction, they will make it.

    We mention alchemy when we introduce the history of chemistry to our students; but we do NOT teach it side by side with chemistry. We do NOT legitimize alchemy as a science or teach that it is a science. We do not (for example) teach how to turn lead into gold side by side with mass balance.

  388. Ben

    People may publically they profess their support, privately it’s a different story. You would be surprised.

  389. dg, I considered re-registering, but then decided that I want the world to know that this DEMOCRAT is opposed to Obama. I want my vote against him to be counted as a defected DEM, not an Indy or Repub.

  390. WCMB — you called me soB…Freudian slip??? 🙂

  391. Oh I am a History wonk wanted to be a history teacher I believe in teaching history and civics and all that is as important as science…

    fuzzybeargville

  392. The Republican War Board ran Delaware County in suburban Phila since I was a child.
    If you want something done in PHila you register dem.
    If you want something done in the suburbs you register republican.

    ot
    The best thing that has come from this horrible election cycle is seeing people like the ones on this blog stand up for what is right for this country.
    People of all ages and color and national orgin have spoken up.
    People looking ahead to stop injustice and sexism and racism is a wonderful thing to see.
    I am so proud to be able to comment and read and learn for all of you.

    COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS, AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  393. HypeNJ: “We do NOT legitimize alchemy as a science or teach that it is a science.”

    DAMN!! And I was planning on turning Obama into a piece of lead.

  394. michael P Varvel, on September 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 am Said:
    RD I agree with you. We also need to understand the historical aspect of how we got to the scientific model we have today. Teaching creationism and natural selection as its natural successor is in itself evolution in action. Alchemy gave way to chemistry.

    By all means, I think history (and art and poetry and…) is as important as science. But it isn’t science. Not sure I agree that natural selection is a “natural successor” to creationism. Natural selection as a scientific theory cropped up completely separate from creationism.

  395. HypeJersy, as far as I can tell, Palin does NOT favor teaching it as fact alongside evolution. She specifically did NOT favor making it be part of the curriculum. All she said was if it comes up, and the kids want to discuss it, go ahead.

  396. RD —

    You’re right, but the degree of party switching will not have a significant affect.

  397. Still4Hill, on September 3rd, 2008 at 12:30 am Said:
    HypeNJ: “We do NOT legitimize alchemy as a science or teach that it is a science.”
    DAMN!! And I was planning on turning Obama into a piece of lead.

    Ok, well he is King Midas. Everything he touches turns to gold {/snark}

  398. wcmb: If you leave the party you can’t help reform it. We need to fix it. And all the PUMAs have to have a role. If folks start peeling away, we won’t have the talent we need.

  399. WMCB, on September 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 am Said:
    HypeJersy, as far as I can tell, Palin does NOT favor teaching it as fact alongside evolution. She specifically did NOT favor making it be part of the curriculum. All she said was if it comes up, and the kids want to discuss it, go ahead.

    Thanks for that. I’ll take your word on it. From what I do know of Palin, I wouldn’t vote for her from a policy standpoint. However, she shows a lot of true grit and she has handled the thing with her daughter admirably. I like her. She’s one tough cookie. And I think the leftie boyz are going to get burned badly by the backlash they are breeding in their sexist and juvenile attacks on her.

    As minds greater than mine have said, “They just can’t help themselves.”

  400. 👿

  401. i gotta go nightie night. Good night all – especially michael P Varvel and RD. I am sorry if I spent too much time talking about evolution and science blah blah blah. I will stay on topic from now all. My apologies to all and have a good night.

  402. Jangles

    I live in NY and feel the way you do, so do many other NY Dems -among them Harriet Christian. Hopefully we will be enough to send a message.

    RD: just throwing something out there, but a post on the silence of women’s groups regarding the rampant sexism- first towards Hillary and now towards Palin would be a good post. Cynthia Ruccia stated women’s rights are not only about abortion. Equality should be about so much more. Allowing so called journalists to openly ridicule and hold women to a different set of rules should be addressed and attacked the way racism is.
    Senator Allen and Imus were run out of town because of stupid, careless, uncalled for comments, yet savage attacks on Hillary were met with silence. BY EVERYONE.
    Now another competent, accomplished woman is being belittled and demeaned. Her seventeen year old daughter and infant son used as weapons against her. Her achievements overlooked and deemed unimportant. Once again, silence.

  403. Nite ‘all

  404. I wouldn’t bash Palin based on creationism. If I understand the theory of evolution correctly, at least according to the full Darwinian claptrap, Obama’s caucus victories and successful campaign could be interpreted as an example of survival of the fittest.

  405. Jangles – I am not so sure CA is not a swing state – you have a Republican Governor. Obama might not do what Hillary was able to do there. Already he had to send her to talk to the farm workers.

  406. RD – how is the production coming(Lori and her husband)? Ladyboomer NYC’s post was just riveting to me – those numbers – the real numbers…. wish there was a CD of this crap from day one, meeting in Florida with Fowler, et al setting up the fix through to the “convention selection” to show those Dem voters who have not had the time or resources to know what this party has wrought. Get it out there before Nov. 4. Fun how Hillary was supposedly to polarizing – “O” has darn near energized 18,000,000+ Dems to turn to ANYONE but him.

    Everyone should read Anglachel’s latest post Choices – amazing reading.

  407. Wow, John. I guess you could see it that way. But in the cultural context, how do we define fittest? Is it still physical strength and prowess, or is it social and intellectual ability.

    For all his speechifying and publishing, Obama depended on thuggery to game the caucuses. Hillary is the one who brain-wrestled him down in the debates. Which one is the fittest?

  408. LOL Obama: When Spencer Meets Malthus.

  409. A bunch of posts ago, fif said: “our Republican sisters are now going to understand our pain about how Hillary has been treated. They are going to experience it for themselves now.”

    And to that I respond “Yes!” I’m registered Republican (because I like to vote in their primaries, but I consider myself to lean more Libertarian, and I regularly vote Dem for local offices).
    As a military wife and lifelong Alaskan resident, I have been supporting a Palin VP nom since January of this year.
    I am terribly upset the treatment of Palin and her family, and I am so happy to have found this website in the past week. I am now FULLY on board and motivated for a McCain/Palin ticket with Clinton as Speaker of the House!
    This speaks to me on so many levels: as an educated Democracy-loving citizen, as the wife of a man currently deployed to Iraq and as the mother of two brilliant little girls.

  410. Still4, what I said was a friendly little logical device known as reductio ad absurdum. It means that if one propounds a theory, make sure that it doesn’t lead to an untenable conclusion because then the theory is wrong.

    Obama won, so Obama is the fittest?

    It’s one way to have fun in a pro-evolution and pro-Clinton blog.

  411. I just got in and got to hear Lieberman’s speech.

    In terms of pure oratory he’s no Demosthenes, but I have to think it will be quite powerful for swing/undecided voters.

  412. Shay, you mean Senate Majority leader? I seriously doubt they’ll ever give it to her, and if they do, it’ll just be to undercut her.

  413. But John, in this culture, that actually might be true. I don’t see evidence to the contrary.

    We’re here blogging in a friendly way, but there was some serious bullying going on in the caucuses. We’re just this side of what happened in the Haitian elections where people were shot and killed entering the polls because of how they were going to cast their votes.

    I am not sure that is not how we define fittest.

    Is the conclusion really untenable? See my 11:39 post. There are some tough characters around.

  414. “You can’t have a marriage cert months early. You have to get married within 30 days of issuance.”

    Maybe someone has already corrected this post, but in NM a marriage license is good for 1 year from issuance. In Alaska, the time seems to be 90 days:

    “Miscellaneous: License is valid for ninety (90) days anywhere in Alaska.”

  415. Doh! Seriously- That’s what I meant

  416. Seriously: Why do you think they won’t give it to her? Do you think Nancy’s arms are that long to reach the Senate?

    God Nancy pisses me off!

  417. Still4, that’s the whole point. I have been here for weeks talking about caucus fraud. In other words, “Obama’s victory = survival of the fittest” is an untenable conclusion– and yet he did win.

    So what I wrote was a reduction of Darwinism to the absurd, not an argument against Hillary Clinton.

  418. Still4Hill, are you serious? You think the He-Men Women Hater’s Club will make her their leader?

    I can’t see it, unless it’s a setup where they all band together to make sure she looks worse than Reid. They don’t care about her popularity or they wouldn’t have treated her with such contempt all along.

  419. I just cannot vote Republican. Watching their convention this evening, all I could do was shake my head. George W. Bush waxing poetic about his “optimistic” painting of a Texas sunrise, hearing that turgid load Fred Thompson doing his Southern Grampa schtick, hearing that chain-smoking Stepford Wife Laura Bush gushing over her retard husband’s “character,” all of it just made me want to puke.

  420. So I had the most bizarre thing happen to me today. I’m driving along minding my own business. I’m thinking to myself what a bunch of hypocrites the lefty Pampers worshipers are for posing like they’ve always been for women “doing it all” the familycareermarriagerotaryclubkidshockeymomshootingmooseandcookinitup doin’ it all. But when they encounter a woman who actually does, and she also happens to be Republican, then all of a sudden she should be at home taking care of the kids, especially the poorly one that at least wasn’t born out of wedlock unless it was really the child of the woman who’s 5 months pregnant.

    So as I’m having this thought to myself I turn on the radio and start pushing buttons…stopped at a red light of course…and Hannity comes on. What does he say? Exactly.

    I think I took the chartreuse pill.

  421. John – I didn’t say it was against Hillary – at all.

    I am saying that I am not sure that conclusion is untenable. If we don’t define fittest, it could simply mean strongest or even most brutal. So in that context Obama (&Co.) were the fittest.

    The absurdity, to me, is that we look at gamed caucus results and accept them as valid- – but that’s a different issue, really.

    Anyhow this thread has evolved a little too long for me. I have to get up at 6..

    Night all – see y’all tomorrow night – maybe. I have a class tomorrow night.

  422. Night.

  423. pet peeve:

    “All cells come from pre-existing living cells…”

    Grrr. That’s not what evolution says at all. Obviously ALL”living cells” did not originally come from what we consider living matter… unless you believe in creationism where a pre-existing “living” Supreme Being created Man. If you believe in evolution, then you are stuck with a lot of uncertainty: a progression of complexity, lots of random walks, dead-ends, and cruel cruel natural selection — trying to define “life” is like examining shades of grey, in a mostly black and white world… And, LLLoving It! (I can’t believe you all are too young to remember Get Smart!) Like I said, science geek pet peeve.

  424. “Science is a method. There are ways to do science right.”

    And that method involves keeping an open mind… along with lots of math, reasoning skills, writing skills, history of science, teamwork, negotiation, research skills, perseverance, etc etc etc, and often a lot of faith in yourself and your coworkers and your predecessors (“standing on the shoulders of giants”). It is all part of Science. Working through the pros and cons of a theory is a useful exercise IMHO.

  425. I am an avid Hillary supporter that will now be supporting McCain/Palin. I REFUSE TO SEE ANOTHER WOMAN PUT THROUGH THIS. Palin gets my vote because of all of the se xism out there and I hope they beat the heck out of the se xist liberal msm and the rest of the lying democratic party. I will be out knocking on doors talking to every woman in my neighborhood how the MSM and Obama supporters treat woman and they need to support McCain/Palin. To Heck with the se xist party of the left and hello to independence.

  426. I LOVE Sarah Palin!

  427. Democrats are trying to use abortion as the #1 scare tactic this year. Let me set this straight, McCain and Palin are both pro-life and want t overturn Roe v Wade at the FEDERAL level only! McCain is only running for a four year term. So, they would have to get a majority of conservative judges on the Supreme Court, then those judges would actually have to overturn a hugely debated issue! Next it would be each state’s choice to decide if they wanted it, so for a woman to lose all rights on it ALL states would have to overturn it at the state level! Do they really think all of that will happen in four years?!? They talk about Republicans using fear mongering! Another social issue that always comes up is gay marriage. As a lesbian myself, I understand how important this is. McCain and Palin personally oppose gay marriage and civil unions while Obama says he supports them personally. However, McCain and Palin are for small government and again believe each individual state should decide! Obama’s view is the states should decide! So, two different personal views–same solution! One of the first things Palin did as Governor was veto a bill that would have denied benefits for same sex couples. She says it was a constitutional issue again, but gay couples got rights in her state!

  428. Why won’t more Clinton supporters come over and vote for McCain? I mean the ones committed to not voting for Obama. We all want the same thing–for Obama to lose! The only way that’s going to happen is if McCain wins! Which is a much better alternative! Obama is like 9 points in some polls since they’ve been bashing Sarah Palin. US Weekly has a cover story coming out entitled “Babies,Lies,and Scandals: McCain’s New Vice President”
    We need to stand together!
    McCain/Palin 08!!

  429. Brad Mays,
    Did you make it to Joe Lieberman? BTW, McCain isn’t like Bush, but the Party likes Bush-not McCain so he had to speak! Watch Lieberman please???

  430. “This Hurts: Governor Sarah Palin and Sexism From the Left ” by ghost2

    Check it out at alegrescorner.soapblox.net
    Have your say!

  431. Well, I think your mom is the cool one!

  432. Shtuey: What’s happening to us??? We’ve entered the Twilight Zone.

  433. checking in late but here’s my two cents. When I, democrat for life/Hillary supporter, and my mother, sometime repub/independent/former Gulliani supporter/now Hillary supporters, heard about Sarah Palin on …Tuesday?…morning we called each other within 10 minutes. It was as if our dreamboat had been picked on American Idol – she’s strong, principled,… oh, we could go on forever. McCain hit a home run and Dean & Co. are shi*ting themselves trying to roast Bristol and Sarah. The dems are going to go down and go down hard.

  434. Hillary should have been our nominee.
    If anything Obama should have begged her to be his VP.

    Brilliant move by McCain in choosing Sarah. Read that many are already connecting so much with her that they are calling her Sarah. All these media sexist bashing of her that reminds me of what they did to Hillary- is only going to endear her more to many women even if they don’t agree with her positions as a conservative Christian.

    I was planning to write in Hillary’s name in November. I just can’t vote for the Democratic Ticket- I can’t forget what happened in the Primary.

    Right now- I – a life long Democrat–liberal- don’t know what I will do at the voting booth now with Sarah in the game. I might just pull that lever for Sarah- when I see that name on there–I don’t know if I will be able to resist voting for her.
    I think that’s why this is a brilliant move by McCain.

  435. I think its very interesting what is happening in America. Maybe seeing the Republicans and Democrats in a new light after Bush and Cheney will really shake the counrty out of the partisan rhetoric. We have a Democrat candidate praising a Republican Administration and the Republicans praising a Democrat’s Administration. We have a candidate from the Republicans that did not have his party’s support until he picked Sara Palin. That shored up his base. I was surprised that my 94 year old grandfather in California knew who she was, had not planned to vote for McCain because of his Independence , but now is energized with the Palin pick. Obama insults his party’s strongest, most loyal members, telling us we are not needed because he has a new coalition,they are the young and urban. Where are we to go? I’m going with the Independant-minded McCain to my surprise. This morning of “Mornin Joe”, Mika Brezinski spoke about “Kos this ” and “Kos that” while condeming the smears co-opted by the media from them. How many people at home do you think know who or what Kos is? Not that many, folks. Who are the Washington insiders that Obama speaks against. They are his supporters and the media. The rest of us get to speak in November.

  436. Journalists for the sphincter contest: toss up between Joe yesterday saying, gee, if there’s one thing we learned over the labor day weekend back home it’s that everybody hates the media. Mika agrees, and Pat….. Hey you guys! Who do you think “the media” is are? Yep, it’ youselves.

    2d nominee: Cameron Brown berating Craig –? from the republicans, “Tell me ONE DECISION she had made!” while governor of Alaska in charge of the state’s National Guard. — she kept pushing. It was advocacy, not an impartial press interview. It was written up in today’s times and because of it McC is avoiding Larry King. When the media’s agin ya,

    That’s enough mainstream press for awhile. Back to growing up bear.

  437. I thought this was interesting being a transplant from East Africa
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7593765.stm

    This is why I love this country – women like Hillary, Shara, other previous appointees from both administration have achieved so much – that is why it saddens me to see what the media is doing openly. Looks like the same guys in Egypt are writing the articles I am reading in various so called respectable papers and news TV outlets.

  438. I’ve sat through the DNC and watched Pelosi run Obama and Biden up the flag, and I refuse to solute wolves in sheeps clothing. It’s another attempt to disguise good ole boys as silk purses. I’m registered Libertarian for 30 years, and I’m sick of the duality within organized politics regardless of party affiliation. Too much like organized religion.

    I’m myself find the appeal of a gun-totin woman in the White House extremely attractive, because if there’s any danger of of grizzly within the confines of Camp David, she’ll know how to field dress it for dinner and serve it to Putin on a silver platter. Heck, she may go into the caves after Bin Laden herself!

    Actually, I know who Sarah Palin is. She’s trying to do it all. Career. Family. She’s like you and me.

  439. Jen, the problem with the “cut off your nose to spite your face” argument is that it assumes Obama is the nose, when in fact he is a wart. Meaning that many people think Obama is going to help Howard Dean and Donna Brazile ruin the party. Obama, Howard, Donna… all warts.

  440. “Why was my last post erased?? Is there censorship on this Board??? I DON’T BELIEVE IT!!”

    Jen, This is not a public “board” it’s a refuge for Hillary Supporting Democrats (or newly-former-Democrats) who will not vote for Obama.

    Our discussions involve various aspects of making and living with that choice. Deciding who will vote for and supporting each other.

    As such, there is no place here for those who want to hound or belittle us for our opinions.

    It’s not censorship — we include two WordPress Links so that you can start your own blog for whatever discussions you want.

    Certainly you have the right to say whatever you want. But, we don’t have to “listen”

  441. Palin is a breathe of fresh air.
    I am following Larry Sinclair in St Paul real time at:

    twitter.com/citizenwells

  442. “She’s a woman” – great reason. She’s not one that will further the cause of women, much like Condi Rice.

  443. Your mom and her sibs are right; this is one cool lady who apparently has it all: looks, brains, motherhood, leadership ability, a man who loves her, outdoorsy abilities (even able to dress a moose), confidence. You name it,she has it. I’ve realized, however, that people everywhere will continue to take potshots at her, and that’s yet another reason to admire her: her courage

  444. Sure, she is a “regular” American woman. But, that doesn’t make you a candidate to run (or assist in running) a country. People, if you can properly manage your home then your seventeen year old is safely home doing homework and eagerly learning about our government for hopes of following in your footsteps.
    Seriously, we need qualifications. Serious qualificaitons… Not a “i’m every middle income woman”.

  445. Palin is a nightmare for the democrats because there is no good way to attack her. The only weakness she has is no experience but that issue is off the table because Obama has no experience.

    practicalpolitik.wordpress.com

  446. If the USA doesn’t want her send her over here to the UK – we need some humans in politics…

  447. PLEASE. Who cares that she is “fresh looking” and “outdoorsy”???!!! She is inexperienced and a poor, poor choice. McCain received some exceedingly BAD advice when someone recommended he choose Palin. She is completely unqualified to lead this country in the event that McCain is unable to do so. Get real.

  448. My concerns about Palin don’t center around her genitalia or how ‘regular’ she is or even her religious beliefs.

    What concerns me is that she’s woefully unqualified for the veep job. Even if I’d been considering voting for McCain, his veep choice would have had me considering a third party candidate – even Nader.

  449. Do regular Americans try to ban books from their local library and fire the librarian? Sarah Palin did. She’s a fundamentalist danger to the nation and the hypocrisy of the “family values” crowd who want to ban sex ed but preach abstinence is staggeringly delusional.

  450. Sarah Palin is a great example of how feminists are not so much for women, but for liberal causes women like them support.

  451. gunny93, please do elaborate.

    How is it that I’m ‘not so much for women’ by wanting to see a QUALIFIED woman on the ticket?

    How is it just for ‘liberal causes women like them’ support for us to hold a woman to the SAME standards that we expect of a man?

    How?

    Please do explain this to me.

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