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Sunday: It was your name, DNC

I am very disappointed that some of our best and brightest bloggers do not understand the source of our resistance.  They seem to think this is all about Hillary.  On the contrary, we made it clear to Hillary’s campaign back in June before her suspension speech that the resistance to Obama had spiralled far beyond her ability to call it back.

The Obamacans and trolls and newly converted think it is all about gender and identity politics.  No, if you want to see an example of identity politics, you need look no further than the 90% of African-Americans who voted for Obama in the primary.  We don’t blame them.  It’s a natural response.  We *do* have an issue with the RBC committee members and other Dolores Umbrage types who can’t seem to see past Obama’s African-American heritage.

We find it very irritating when the Obamacans, trolls and newly converted scream at us like we don’t understand English that we are too stupid to realize that John McCain is using a woman, a conservative woman at that, to fool us into voting for him.  That kind of attitude is beyond condescending and offensive.  I would like to clear a few things up to the permanently addled on Obama: 1.) Not all of us are voting for McCain.  Loyal Democrats such as myself have a very hard time crossing that ideological divide.  and 2.) We are quite aware of what John McCain is up to and the people he is playing for fools are the Obamaphiles and DNC who thought they could wrest away the Evangelical base from the Republican party.  That he picks up some disaffected Hillary voters is icing on the cake for him.

No, the primary source of our disaffection and resistance to the DNC, Obama and even Hillary herself is that the party has lost its moral authority.  In its zeal to select Obama as its nominee, it compromised all that it claimed it believed.  It set up a system that favored one outcome, allowed states to pay for sham primaries, duped voters into thinking their votes counted, reapportioned delegates to suit its needs, intimidated and harassed delegates.  And all in the name of UNITY, which it most certainly did not get.

But the biggest shame falls on the delegates and superdelegates who succumbed to pressure during a vicious witch hunt.  They completely missed the point of Hillary’s brilliant speech which was not to cave but to keep going.  Yes, she stood up for Barack Obama but she was exhorting the delegates to stand up for themselves and their voters.  But they caved.  We know that Obama whips followed them down the hallways of the hotels like dogs at their heels, screaming at them to sign onto Obama or their political careers would be finished.  We know how they trapped delegates in hotel rooms and used strong armed tactics to get them to switch.  But none of them had to do it.  And if they had hung together and resisted, then the machine that looked so powerful would have been stripped of its formidable image.  It is nothing if there are no people supporting it.

There was an opportunity last Wednesday for all of the delegates to find the core within that would guide them.  That core would have told them what it means to be a loyal Democrat.  That core would have said to count every vote, honor every voter, resist fear, put the common good first, keep their eyes on the future.  Some did.  Most did not.

In those moments on Wednesday, the delegates signed away the name of the Democratic party.  It will not have another in my life.

That is the source of our resistance.

256 Responses

  1. You have spoken for me in this post, RD. Every word is true.

  2. And I forgot to add that my guess is this is why the Confluence masthead went DARK. It’s appropriate to how we all feel.

  3. This morning, Ruth Marcus, whom I usually enjoy reading, had an OpEd in The Washington Post implying that Hillary supporters who vote for McCain/Palin are stupid.

    So, according to OpEd writers, first we were racist, then we were dead-enders, now we are stupid.

    What makes anyone think that insults are going to sway us?

  4. (tears)

    {{Riverdaughter}} Thank you for this. It might be your finest post. And considering your body of work that’s a huge compliment.

    You do speak for me. Amazingly, you’ve done it every morning for over 6 months.

    Thank you.

  5. RD Another insightful post!

    What strikes me is how M. Moore, the Media, & the DNC believe that ALL Democratic women have the same political views? By doing so, they both marginalize and stereotype us. I guess they truly believe that we can’t or will not think for ourselves and will do what we are told is good for us. I am getting sick of being told that I should listen to Hillary and vote BO as if I were a child and cannot make a reasoned decision for myself. This will prove to be a big mistake in NOvember.

  6. (Passing katiebird the Kleenex)

    I agree with katiebird.

  7. GREAT POST RiverDaughter … they did not JUST give away votes in one state .. they gave them ALL AWAY ..what was the point of having a primary if the outcome was predetermined?? They gave away the party , they gave us all way …
    it is almost biblical
    For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion

    Now they want us to dance to their tune … but sexism isnt that important ??? I say let us show them just how important it is ….

  8. AMEN !!!

    We will not return to the Democratic Party until Democracy does – until then – PUMA!

  9. (taking Kleenex and dabbing eyes)

    Honestly, she’s magic. Isn’t she?

  10. We sat down and wept, and wept for Zion
    We remember, we remember, we remember Zion

  11. I remember when they did the sham roll call vote someone asked why California “passed”

    They passed because Gloria Allred would not play along, and insisted the proper votes be cast.

    She wore a red bandana as a gag in protest.

  12. swanspirit said: “Now they want us to dance to their tune … but sexism isnt that important ??? I say let us show them just how important it is ….”

    Amen, Amen, Amen

  13. RD is very magical. Is she muggle born?

    I’m part Talaxian, myself.

  14. I have spent a lot of time researching Sarah Palin’s credentials. I think she is an excellent choice for the Republican Party. I disagree with completely with the premise that it is a gimmick. That she is a woman is just another aspect of the choice. She represents real change as a strong independent reformer with a great personal background and a tough record of achievement.

    To present her as a woman to satisfy HRC supporters is in itself an insult.


  15. I’m just here to bug people. I’ve got nothing of value to add to your conversation.

    (Edited to more accurately reflect the intent of the comment)

  16. Sorry everyone, but I’m going to have to tepidly get on the Obama train. No, I have not drunk the Kool Aid, and I’m doing this for Hillary. Its always been about Hillary for me and the goal of someday making her President. She can still become one in 2016 and showing support for Obama will help regain African Americans and others to the Clinton coalition. Her convention speech was definitely not a farewell speech and the fire is still in her.

    The Clintons have always followed the strategy of “Kill your enemies (or adversaries/nonsupporters) with kindness.” Bill did that on his rise to the top, and now Hillary is doing it too. Remember ultra rightwinger and old Clinton nemesis Richard Scaife and how he became smitten by her and her husband? Also, remember how men were supposed to hate her but grew in support for her during the primary? Even the Republicans are quietly showing grudging respect for her. Now, Hillary is doing the same with Obama’s supporters and turning them over to her side by showing the true Hillary and not the one the CDS version they believed her to be.

    When kindness kills, your adversaries become your supporters or at least stop getting in your way. That is Hillary’s plan.

    I’ve made peace with what happened in the primary and I’ll follow other people when they said they will forgive but won’t forget.

    Its time for me to sign out but I’d like to leave one last message. Please don’t succumb to the Right’s politics of resentment and division. Always remember the story of the scorpion and the fox. The scorpion’s nature is to sting with its poison tail. They’ll be all too happy to use division against Hillary when she runs again. Hillary can run again and win in 2016 when even more progress can be made that only Hillary can.

  17. Riverdaughter – off topic – CONGRATULATIONS on passing

    2.5 MILLION HITS!!!


    (((((Happy Tae-Bo Workout Merengue Running Man Dance!!!))))

  18. Mahagonny is on PBS. It’s an excellent satirical opera bu Kurt Weill –

    they’re singing whiskey bar now!!

  19. PUMA’s are for fairness. The DNC has become the mirror image of a CAUCUS and all that is unfair and just bullies.

  20. Got zapped to moderation or spam….help!

    Here it is again

    CONGRATS to Riverdaughter & Confluence’s 2.5 Million hits!!

  21. Great post, RD. Never forget, it was Howard Dean and Donna Brazile who destroyed the Democratic Party. They could have stopped the sexism, but Dean chose to ignore it, and Donna decided to pile on with the Blogger Boyz. As swanspirit said, it’s almost Biblical. Here’s another one:

    For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.

  22. There comes a point in time that I have to question my own actions. I need to hold myself accountable for enabling some of this to go on. The Democratic Party could not have become this morally bankrupt overnight. So why did it take me over thirty years to leave? I cannot answer my own question. I only know that it isn’t okay and I did not stand up untill June 2, 2008 when I became an Independent. Now I am not saying that the Republicans have always acted appropriately. But, the Party leaaders of the Democratic Party have repeatedly acted without ethics, good judgement and certainly without class.

  23. myiq2xu, on August 31st, 2008 at 12:27 pm Said:
    I remember when they did the sham roll call vote someone asked why California “passed”

    They passed because Gloria Allred would not play along, and insisted the proper votes be cast.

    She wore a red bandana as a gag in protest.

    I hope that she makes a HUGE stink about this. Please Gloria Allred, please!

  24. Audra sings like a bird!

    And she looks teh hot in her costume.
    Patty LupOne rocks it.

    Excellent satire. The only crime in the City of Mahogonny is to “have no money.”

    It was originally written in Germany as a satire of the Socialist State.

    This production is sung in English. I’m sure it will be repeated. It’s on PBS “Great Performances.”

    Very timely. Very yummy.

  25. I think this is a great post, excellent statement of your viewpoint. I just don’t agree. For me the Clinton’s WERE the establishment, and expected Hillary to be crowned. Bill was calling in IOUs … “Come on, I gave you a job, you have to vote for my wife”. I’m not saying that HRC wasn’t capable of being President, but didn’t expect to really have to run for the nomination.
    The media went along with it at first, but then themselves switched and got caught up in the drama of the Obama story. Yes, the MSM media failed us. But I don’t see any difference in Obama or HRCs tactics, and we all lost. If experience was the real requirement, Dodd would be the nominee.

  26. WS: Sadly, I disagree with you. I will not be part of the “love train” that stole votes to boost a candidate over another. Good luck and sad to see you go.

    Democracy is much more important that party loyalties.

  27. Jimmy: You missed the point. It was the delegates obligation to honor the voters no matter what kind of pressure they were under. How ironic is it that this year, the Republicans ignored their leaders and picked the one Republican who could actually beat the Democrats, the one Republican that they thought had what it takes to be president and clean up Washington, and *our* party shut down the one Democrat who was capable of dismantling him.
    The establishment put all of their efforts behind one man- Barack Obama, and then gave him a second who is one of them. But no matter how many times we point this out to you, the gears in your mind refuse to engage. Obama is everything he says he is not. He played a very clever perception management game on a lot of people.
    Conflucians and PUMAs refused to play that game.

  28. Zuzu drops a “must read” petal:


    Well? What are you waiting for?

    Go read it!

  29. RD – The delegates did honor the voters. The superdelegates should have picked the candidate that would have been the best President, which would have been Dodd or Biden or Richardson. I can’t wait until this ‘who looks like me’ popularity contest version of democracy is over.

  30. Hammer meet nail….

    Great post and it says it all!!


  31. You are exactly right…I have increased my contributions to Liberal Democratic Congressional challengers and will work for a massive defeat of Obama/Biden. Nov 5 will be the start of take out the trash and DNC cleanup. I will probably vote McKinney.

  32. WS: To each his own. I’m glad you found peace but I plan on stopping the abuse by taking a stand against it. It may hurt in the short run but this isn’t about HRC..

  33. I respect everyone’s decision here. Just keep the flame alive for a Hillary Presidency. Its always been about Hillary for me and I will follow her wherever she decides to go.

    There was a AP Yahoo article headline that read: Loyalist: Hillary Positions are My Positions.

    That’s mine too.

  34. Jimmy thinks old white guys are the only good choices.

    He is a rac*st and a sex*st

  35. RD your post is exactly right. But I have to admit that the sexism used by the DNC and Obama against Hillary is part of the reason why I am disaffected. I blame the Party. For me this is personal, I can’t help it.

  36. WS: Good for you! Now go with peace! However, nice touch of accusing others of disloyalty before you go. So subtle I almost missed it. You’ve got a career in politics I see.

  37. Jimmy: The primary vote in NJ gave Hillary a 10 point victory. During the roll call, Governor Corzine gave every delegate to Obama. Please don’t come in here telling me to not trust my lyin’ eyes. You are burbling gibberish. Biden is as establishment as they come. Are you a Republican? You obviously know nothing about who’s who in the Democratic party.
    Have fun in the spam filter. There’s a Humanities professor there from BU and a Woman’s Studies professor from Arizona State University. I’m sure you’ll have a lot of nonsense to talk about together.

  38. Has WS been a regular poster? I do not recognize the tag.

  39. NH: I hear ya’ but I can’t tell if sexism was the symptom or the cause. When it comes right down to it, the delegates and superdelegates failed us and did not honor the votes. Therefore, no unity. Ergo, 4 years of McCain/Palin.

  40. Jimmy: GA law mandates delegates cast their votes for the candidates they are elected to represent. HRC lost nine of those delegates. Seems we have a few law breakers in the great state of GA.

  41. when a reporter asked the O campaign what they thought of Hillary’s congratulatory remarks about Palin they said, “it will do, for now.”

    Did they really say that? How disgusting. In other words, she is their slave. What a bunch of control freaks–they are every bit as bad as Cheney. Transparency, my ass.

  42. RD, yes you are right.

    The delegates were responsible for honoring the voters and it didn’t matter what Hillary said or did. That was her message, but they caved.

  43. Here’s just one example — when a reporter asked the O campaign what they thought of Hillary’s congratulatory remarks about Palin they said, “it will do, for now.” — you can read into it what you want but I see a geniune sincere comment coming from her out of the gate. The O’s campaign makes it clear that they intend to have her say something other than this. Note — “THEY intend to have her say…”

    What the Həll is going on?

  44. These time remind me of Weimar Germany. I fear for my country. People seek order AKA “unity” under a strong leader.

    Weill wrote both “Three Penny Opera” and “Mahagonny” in times like this:


    Both of these works were created within a short period during the dangerously unsettled years of the Weimar Republic, when envelope-pushing artists were needling German society on one side and the agents of a reactionary, hatred-fueled, fear-mongering movement called National Socialism were undermining it on the other. In a way, what Brecht and Weill did was to hold up a mirror, allowing those with open eyes to see the world around them. It was not a pretty sight.

    Alas, our popular artists are all commercial sell outs. Real artists get limited exposure. I see bloggers like River Daughter taking the role that Weill and Brecht filled.

  45. WS: you are the opposite of RD’s post. For us, it is not about Hillary alone. I love Hillary so much, but it is because of her championing of core Democratic principles and her strength, intelligence, and conviction in fighting for those. None of this is about one person: Hillary or the cult-like adulation of Obama. Thank you for clarifying what the PUMA movement is all about: democracy over Party. We are aligned with the fundamental principles of our Founding Fathers. I am very proud of that, and no single person supercedes that. Not even the magnificent Hillary.

  46. fif – Well said!

  47. It seems the Obama Thug Machine requires a bully character of all of its employees, otherwise their work could not be done. Sweet people don’t threaten and intimidate effectively.

  48. Ha Ha! Jimmy thinks Richardson was a better candidate than Hillary. Thanks for the laugh Jimbo.

  49. On “Meet the Press” today, it was all about McCain and Palin. PUMA was mentioned in this quote from Republican Strategist and NBC News Political Analyst Mike Murphy: “The question is that I keep coming back with, you know, I don’t believe the puma theory. I don’t believe that pro-choice Democratic Primary voters are going to switch parties to the Republican to vote for a pro-life running mate who’s a Christian conservative. I just can’t see it. So in the kind of blue-collar cultural conservative places, I think it will help McCain, but I think he’s got most of that vote. A lot of it’s a cultural protest vote to Obama and his liberalism.”

    This PUMA and Hillary supporter is voting for McCain/Palin in protest to the Undemocratic Party. Palin on the ticket will put a smile on my face when I fill in the oval on my ballot.

  50. Cheers Arabella!

  51. I am willing to bet that nothing the Obama camp can do will ever get Hillary or Bill to make an ungracious, rude or nasty remark to any Republican or Democrat ever. ever ever. She and Bill will say no.

  52. Hillary Clinton respects Sarah Palin that I am certain.

    Anyone than stands by their convictions and modifys their life for the choices they have made cannot be faulted in anyway. Actions speak louder than words.

    We will never agree on everything. As President Bill said himself, vote for candidate Y because you know they will be able to get 50% of what you agree with done.

    The 2 things that people do not agree with her on are Choice and Religion. McCain and Palin cannot change anything about these matters with a 60% Democratic Senate. So why are we bothering to play with the trolls on these 2 items? Remember, this is America – we are suppose to respect and fight for each individuals ability to have their own opinion. Start acting like Americans and honor those that agree with us and those with a different opinion.

    Hillary or McCain 2009 – you choose.


  53. Back atcha, fif. I enjoy reading your comments.

  54. Carol, well said!

  55. lyn5: they’ve been saying we’re a myth since we started. A very large, vociferous, influential myth.

  56. Beautiful post RD.

    This movement stopped being about Hillary a long time ago. I will not reward the DNC’s bad behavior. Taking four delegates from Hillary and awarding them to Obama based on a bogus metric such as exit polling is unforgiveable. I will not vote for someone who employed caucus fraud, voter supression, and intimidation as campaign strategy. Shorter me: It’s the democracy, stupid.

    A sticking point for me is that Obama could have agreed to re-votes in my home state of Florida and in Michigan (non-taxpayer funded even–thanks James Carville!) but refused because his political future was more important than my franchise and the franchise of the other 2.3 million who voted in our renegade primaries.

    He didn’t want my vote during the primaries, so he can’t have it in the general.

  57. Alas, our popular artists are all commercial sell outs. Real artists get limited exposure. I see bloggers like River Daughter taking the role that Weill and Brecht filled.

    WELL AND TRULY SAID !!! Arabella Trefoil !!!

    THAT is why I have an internet radio station devoted to independent artists !!!!!!
    I am on the air now with Neighborhood Radio til 3 PM EST
    ( no wrong sides of the tracks in THIS neighborhood )
    click the link below to listen in 🙂

  58. I was thinking what Arabella mentioned on another thread– the Biden selection is just not making it. Could he relinquish his berth on the love train to Hillary Clinton? I doubt it, because that implies enough rationality and realism in the O team to realize that it is going to lose. It would be seen as the ultimate gesture in cynicism.

  59. fif, wait earlier this week there were only 60 of us. LOL

  60. fif, I love being a mythical beast!

  61. Shorter me: It’s the democracy, stupid.

    Piper, exactly! I think that should be one of our new slogans. No matter how many interviews our spokespeople do, they keep talking about Hillary and what she has said and done.

  62. Riverdaughter’s post is lovely and touching—-but I want to suggest that the truest and deepest explanation for what drives us (even acknowledging we have many different reasons) is something sufficiently complex and subtle that (while we should attempt to express it–and RD absolutely gets at some aspect of the crucial core) is a sufficiently intricate cluster of intimate sentiments, philosophical and psychological judgments, and political standpoints, that we should NOT seek to fully grasp it allyet.

    It might take months or years to fully entangle the essence of our impetus and I, personally, am content to observe it now, at this early stage, as a primitive “black box” we put before ourselves—knowing that while we understand fragments of its hot core, that its richness will only unwrap itself after much longer contemplation, reflection and actions.

    Doubtless, trying to wrestle out a genuine understanding of what moves us to these novel and surprising (to me, anyway) actions and feelings, will trigger a slew of books and doctoral dissertations!
    In fact—-here’s an idea (though I expect it to be disregarded, and is aside from what I just wrote about researching the core drives behind our movement): publish an edited collection, series of interviews with x people—“Echoes of PUMA” or some such thing…Well the writers amongst us will know better about this,( I’ll stick with the philosophical work called for in my first paragraph.)

  63. clarification: I mean the media keep talking about Hillary, not the spokespeople.

  64. Mad Men fan, RD? We remember thee, Zion. Love that song.

    I am convinced that we need to work for a total overhaul of the primary process. Do away with delegates all together-they do not represent the electorate as they are meant to. No SDs. Go to winner-take-all and give them the electoral votes as if it was the General. Let average folks who work for the Party at the local level go to the Convention instead of just fans of one candidate. It’s supposed to be for all Dems not just the DNC chosen few.

  65. The faux new democratic party does not respect me and I deserve better.
    The took my vote and trashed it.
    No matter who I vote for it should be counted.
    Every person who votes is doing their civic duty and wants the best for this country.
    The faux new democratic party thinks the American people are stupid and will accept any thing they throw at them.
    They forgot they are suppose to represent me and the democrats who voted.
    They need us, we do not need them.



  66. riverdaughter, I don’t know how you do this every morning! Amazing.

    I know the misogyny has been on full display for months, but today it just seems to run completely through the Dem Party…and without bottom.

    They go on and on about how Barry is JFK.
    Well misogyny is big part of the Kennedy persona.
    Joe Sr. taught his boys that women are good for one thing and no thing only….anything other role is funny, or if the woman persists, then the fangs come out.

    Increasingly the cancer found in the DNC is being revealed to have spread downward….how far down is anyone’s guess. I do know that if we fall back in line, nothing will change and it must change. Saying the GOP is worse is not an answer , I cannot reward the current criminal Democratic Party apparatus with my vote .

  67. Hatshepsut: it’s true. There are so many levels to this, and as the Big Dawg said, he’ll talk about it after the January election, so a lot of new information will come out in the future to shed light on what really happened behind the scenes.

  68. I am a pessimist, and I have no faith in the idea that Hillary will even choose to run again, or that if she does she will be the nominee.

    I hope she runs, and if she does I will support he and vote for her.

    But supporting Obama in the hope that this will lead to Hillary winning the White House at some point in the future is silly.

    If Obama wins, the Clinton-hating wing of the Democratic party will be triumphant. They will do everything in their power to ensure that both Hillary and Bill are marginalized. They will use their power to annoint Obama’s successor, and it will not be Hillary if they can help it.

    If you want to see Hillary win in 2012, you must defeat the CDS wing by opposing Obama. If he loses, they will be discredited and will have less power next time.

  69. Hey Lyn5, what did you think about Maria B’s glowing comments about Sarah Palin and her views on energy –

    MR. BROKAW: That’s Sarah Palin talking about getting the oil pipeline reactivated again, the one that began, as she pointed out, 30 years ago. But at the same time, Maria, she talks about wanting to drill in the Arctic Wildlife Reserve. Is she going to hold to that position?

    MS. MARIA BARTIROMO: Yeah, I think so, Tom, and I think that this is a very, very important point, because while yes, we spoke about anti-corruption and about Hillary and her charisma, I think the biggest value she brings to the ticket is her expertise in energy. This is her comfort zone. She made a very compelling case to me that the area that we’re talking about that is being debated about whether or not to drill, ANWR as you mentioned, is 2,000 acres in a 20 million acre plain. This is her comfort zone, this is really what she’s overseeing.

    Alaska is one of the few oil-rich areas we have in this country alone. She is going to really campaign on that–on that platform, not only as energy and oil relates to the economy. We know that oil is one of the biggest issues we face when it comes to the economy. It’s certainly crippled the economy over the last year, watching oil prices reach record highs. But also, as energy relates to national security. So this is a very, very important piece of the picture, and I think she brings great value there, making that point that it is a small swath of land, and it really will not impact the wildlife, as of course is the concern, because we’ve got caribou and bears and moose there, and the upset or the worry is that it’s going to impact the breeding of the wildlife. She feels very strongly that that is not the case, and I think that that knowledge of energy is going to be very important for the McCain ticket.

    MR. BROKAW: Beyond energy, how conversant is she with the other big economic issues of the day, especially the liquidity crisis that this country is facing, home foreclosures?

    MS. BARTIROMO: Well, she felt, actually, that the Republican Party has a–has a advantage when it comes to the credit card issue, when it comes to credit. She felt that Joe Biden dropped the ball on that. She talked to me a little about that in the interview. She also talked about healthcare. She had real opinions in terms of what should be done with regard to economic growth overall. And the truth is, Tom, is that energy is a big party of that. I mean, that really is one of the, one of the biggest issues we face.

    On the, on the banking sector upset, he’s going to need more credibility, obviously, McCain, on that issue. I don’t think that she’s necessarily well-versed in, in, in the liquidity crunch, but, but I think that, that she came across so strong with regard to economic matters as they relate to energy and as they relate to overall economic growth that I think it was a very savvy pick, actually. She’s very accessible, very personable, as, as you’ve said. You know, when I was walking around, we went to the highest point in Anchorage and we walked around a field so she could show me really where the main areas were for, for drilling and you had to see her with some of the people on the ground. She, she went over to people. I mean, clearly a reporter is, is there with her, so she has an agenda there, but she was very comfortable going and, and, and welcomed by the people and, and even the people on the ground, when I was traveling there throughout Alaska. You know, one person said to me, I said, “So how’s the governor doing?” to the driver of the, of the car and people on the plane and in the airport. And they said, “You know, we, we really, we love her. The first thing that she did when she got in office is she gave up the plane, the private plane, and she gave up the chefs.” And she said, “Look, I don’t need any of this. I want to focus on economics. I want to focus on what Alaska can do for the rest of the country.”

    And remember, if we were to see drilling, not only in that ANWR area, but on the coast in the North Slope, that’s also a lot of job creation because there are ripple effects to drilling and she talked a lot about that as well, how we could see tremendous job creation as a result of activity in that part of the country. So clearly that is her sweet spot and that’s what she is going to be focused on. I think you make a good point about the liquidity crunch, but I also have to be impressed with her knowledge on this issue of energy, one of the biggest that we face.

  70. Hmmmm. I’m thinking seriously about voting McCain/Palin, simply so that O will lose and HRC can run in 2012. She’d make mincemeat out of ’em during the debates, with the totally qualified VP candidate she’d choose.

  71. I apologize for the harshness of my analogy, but battered women sometimes stay with their abusive husbands, thinking that they can change them with kindness and understanding.

    The corruption and misogyny in the Democratic Party is at such a high level that it must be defeated or it will leave us in a permanent underclass, and if BO is elected as president we will have even less power than we do now. If we want a political home and a way to implement our values, we have to fight now, for the good of our country and our children’s futures.

  72. I’m doing the same thing, lyn5. My husband accuses me of being consumed with hatred, but I said no – I’m angry. There’s a difference. I will not enable the corrupt actions of the “new” Democratic Party. I’m gonna send them a little tough love in November by voting for McCain. I live in a Big Blue state, so my vote won’t be determinative, but I want to send a message to my former party I will remember in November.

    These pundits are clueless. I know in my gut that McCain’s choice of Palin was a brilliant move for a number of reasons. I believe it will attract a good chunk of former Hillary supporters. Not all or even a majority, but just enough to swing the election for McCain. Of course, I don’t think this choice was all about Hillary supporters. That was just the icing on the cake. Obama supporters seem to be very worried and eager to dismiss her as a token. That alone tells me that McCain made a smart move.

  73. I’m not supporting Obama and it has nothing to do with Palin or Hillary. I’m not supporting Obama because of Obama.

    There is no way I can condone the behavior of the Democrats during the caucuses and at the DNC. There is no way I can condone the behavior of my party when their silence stamped complicity all over the media’s sexism.

  74. If people do not stand up against tyranny, against the subversion of their democratic rights, the chance that they will ever get those rights back becomes exceedingly unlikely.l. If the DNC and the Obama cult gets away with this cheating, this intimidation of Clinton caucus supporters, this overt stealing of votes, why would anyone think that the next time will be better? Fascist dictators have always used the argument that at least they get things done, so that the people should be grateful for that, even if they have no freedom. How far are we away from a fascist dictatorship here, if our votes are subverted or thrown away altogether?

    Obama and the DNC always counted on Democrats ultimately being forced to vote for him. “You may not like what I have done, but the other side is worse!,” is their argument. If Obama wins this election, the Democratic Party will cease to exist as we have known it. All the people in charge will be Obamacrats; all dissent will be purged. Obama could be the worst President in American history, and yet there will be no challenge to him from the utterly neutered Party which will remain. Think Richard Nixton; because Obama is closest to Nixon in his paranoia about dissent, his need to destroy all who do not bow to him.

    I have probably voted for one Republican in my life for any office. But if I vote for Obama, I will not only be validating every fraud, thuggery and evil that was perpetrated in this campaign, I will be assuring that there is virtually no hope for a better political future for any of us. We would have two corrupt Parties, two philosophies of “winning is the only valued end, any means are acceptable.” Why would anyone possibly expect the DNC to rise up again as a representative body, or that any future nominating process would be held fairly? Why bother to ever vote again, since your vote clearly can be thrown out or simply given to the candidate that the fascists choose it to go to? I would be trading in all my supposed democratic rights, all my sense of ethics and fairness, for some marginal advantages on certain issues. It would be like choosing Huey Long over Barry Goldwater. At least when the Republicans won, I had some hope that my Party would rise again for a better future. If Obama wins, my Party will be part of the corrupt future, and there will be no hope.

  75. Riverdaugher: What a powerful post, particularly the closing paragraphs.

    Hatshepsut PHILOSOPHER: Yes, I think you are right about the complexity and multivalency of our impetus.

    Yesterday my father, a long-time Democrat, referred to me as a “sore loser.” I replied that if he were properly informed about the process and the nominee (as I have been trying to do for months now, but he refuses to listen) he would realize how untrue that statement is. My mother had to intervene, “No more politics.”
    Ironically perhaps, I found myself on more common ground with my Republican cousins from Texas and Arkansas. I am so fed up with demonizing Republicans and blindly following Democrats purely based on political affiliation.
    Barack Obama: the great divider

    Palin’s words about country before party (in her speech Friday) really resonated with me.

  76. I’m proud to know you people. Seriously. (Typing this with a lovely bronze PUMA bracelet around my wrist, that hasn’t been taken off since the start of the Convention last week – and won’t be for another two months.)

  77. I just watched that clip and now I’m crying all over again.

  78. As the world’s supply of oil dwindles, economic necessity will force us to drill in the remaining locations, including ANWR.

    We can adopt a position of environmentalist purity and oppose all drilling, ever.

    If we do that, they will win and we will lose.

    Or we can demand that the drilling be done carefully, and that the environment be protected. We can demand that in exchange for our cooperation, alternative energy resources be developed and research on green technologies be funded.

    If we do that everybody will win.

  79. Thanks fif, and two states for the Brokaw/Bartiromo exchange.

    On ANWR, I like animals (some are delicious!) and I don’t want to see them harmed. But she’s from Alaska and has a 70%-90% approval rating. Alaskans know what’s best for them, and who am I sitting here in Florida to doubt or judge them?

    yttik–exactly. A vote for Obama condones the undemocratic way that he was installed.

    I’d like to hear more on her gun stance and the whole intelligent design thing freaks me out a touch, but right now, my vote for McCain/Palin is their’s to lose.

  80. Punishment – DNC goes down with all of the dirty dirty boys and girls.

    Retribution – we make sure everyone knows what the mistakes were.

    Reform – McCain and Palin to help clean up Congress while we form the party that is to speak for us as we speak to them.


    Hillary or McCain 2008 – you choose.

    Puma Happy

  81. In other words, the system and pigeon-holing and threatening of delegates whose candidate did not win is no different than it has really ever been in either of the two major parties since whenever.

    At least Hillary and Bill were not totally stifled and scheduled to speak.

    “Let Jerry speak!” – delegate chant at the 1992 DNC Convention

  82. Does anyone have a link to a reputable source on the investigation concerning Palin’s brother-in-law?

  83. Robin:

    I have said for months that Obamanation reminds me of domestic abusers.

    The verbally abuse and threaten (they would love to physically abuse us too) and when we try to leave they get even angrier.

    Then they start trying to schmooze us and guilt trip us.

    “We need to stay together for the children, er, the good of the party”

  84. Jules:

    I don’t, but avoid the ones that Jeralyn is pimping. She is relying on a guy who Palin defeated in the election

  85. If they drill in ANWR the oil extracted needs to belong to the people. I know this sounds radical, and socialist which I don’t mean, but they need to find a way to share most of the wealth of oil with us, and not to a tiny (100,000) group of oil employees.

  86. #
    myiq2xu, on August 31st, 2008 at 1:06 pm Said:

    But supporting Obama in the hope that this will lead to Hillary winning the White House at some point in the future is silly.


    I agree with you on this. I think what has been the sharp knife in my back is the “they got away with it” feeling. Team Obama gamed the system, tore down Hillary Clinton, neutered the progressive movement, threw about misogyny and racism as playthings, and was dragged limping across the finish line by the corporate media.

    This is a bizarre crossroads, to be sure. But by the gods, it appears that they did not get away with it.

  87. On my Sunday radio show … I play independent artists and sometimes some old blues classics that are public domain .. a little bit a go
    I played
    ButterBeans and Suzie


    … and all you wonderful babelicious PUMAS that is exactly how i feel about how anyone votes

    I have SO MANY reasons not to vote for bo
    and I was going to twist my own arm and hold my nose and vote for John , but now I will do so with a BIG OLD SMILE on my face wooo hooo SARAH PALIN

  88. There are hundreds of oil rigs in the Gulf. They shut them down as Katrina came through. No spills No problem.

    The people that continue to put out the no drilling bs are the ones that have held us captive to the Middle East. It is over as far as I am concerned. We have paid too much of a price for no supplying our own needs. If we have a leak, then we have a leak. Everything is not as fragile as people want to make it out to be.

    Stop the BS coming out of the mouths of these idiots.

    Someone post the name of the person running against Kerry, I want to contribute. I want these self-egrandising people out of there now.


  89. myiq2xu–Isn’t the gist of ‘troopergate’ that the brother-in-law tasered his 11-year-old son and killed a moose and that his superior didn’t fire him, so Palin fired the superior? Is there more to it than that?

    From what I’ve read about Sarah Palin, I see a woman who stopped the corrupt Alaskan political machine rather than be absorbed by it.

  90. Riverdaughter, you’re the best. I was a Hillary delegate and saw the arm-twisting up close and personal. What a travesty of justice. I only attended to be able to bear witness to the corruption in the Democratic Party.

  91. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant! All anyone has to do is to pay a visit to the Confluence to see brilliance close up and personal. The writers, contributors, and commentators make this site the most highly intelligent in cyberspace. Couple this astute breakdown of what we are all about with Heidi Li’s essay from yesterday, and there should no doubt whatsoever where our enmity orginates and to whom it is directed.

    Riverdaughter, if you do not entertain thoughts of becoming politically activated, as a strong, concise, clear voice and representative of the true Democratic Party, please consider. Your boldness and sense of patriotism has kept us all together for these last 6 months. Outstanding!


  93. NH – Palin sent the tax money on the oil back to each citizen of Alaska – $1200.

    She gave up her jet and chefs. Her husband cooks. They take care of their own children.

    This woman has my vote until they give me Hillary back. You can bet your booty, she and Hillary will be best buds.

  94. Peter,

    We’ve been through this for months with each other. Speaking for myself,

    Obama is an Illegitimate candidate based (first) on his acceptance of Hillary’s 4 delegates and (second) on his bullying and intimidation of Super Delegates & Delegates through the summer and straight on through the election.

    He’s inexperienced to the point of absurdity.

    He’s unelectable based on his inability to control himself (he had to humiliate Bill Clinton at the Convention by playing Addicted to Love as Clinton left the stage) and his associates

    And I don’t trust him on the issues or to stand by what he says. Based on (first) his No Mandates for Health Care and (second) FISA.

    Peter (we’ve been through this a dozen or more times) I’ve held my nose for Democratic Candidates my entire life but they have to give me something. If nothing else, the feeling that I’m casting the right vote.

    Obama DOES NOT give me that feeling.

    So I’m not voting for him. I do, after all, own my vote. You don’t.

  95. RD, this post perfectly describes why I am a PUMA.

    To me it ultimately didn’t matter who the candidates were. The tactics used against voters would have been equally repugnant to me, no matter in whose name they were used. If we roll over and say ok, we didn’t like what happened but we want to get a Democrat in the White House, we condone what has been done to us.

    The things they did to Hillary were terrible. She can forgive and forget if she wants, that’s up to her. To me this is about what was done to all of us, and I won’t forgive and forget until I get my vote counted. If that means a vote for someone other than a Democrat, so be it.

  96. Been doing my research. My California assembly rep give a big donation to Hillary–yes! She feels the love from me! My Congresscritter is Henry Waxman, an Obama train passenger. Not sure what to think there. Anyone get any info on his role in this debacle?

  97. It sounds like BTD is finally getting it about Troopergate

  98. In my opinion, any Clinton supporter who truly believes that she wants us to vote for Obama does not know Hillary at all. She couldn’t have made that clearer by her words and actions.

    Does that make her a liar? No, it makes her true to her word that she would do what she could to support Obama.

    After 8 years of Obama there is ZERO chance that Hillary or any Dem would win again. She has one chance and that is 2012.

    I am voting for McCain without regard to any future run for Hillary. I am saying no to the party whose actions this year have opened my eyes to abuse of power. I never expected to Democratic Party to take away my vote. I never expected the Democratic Party to treat women like third class citizens and take for granted their loyalty by holding hostage their uterus.

    Women have to take a stand for Hillary and for themselves so that never again will the party be foolish enough to do what it did this year and to show that we cannot be herded like cattle because they are protecting ONE right that affects a very small percentage of the female population.

    I love HeidiLi but I disagree with her that it is possible to change the party without a VERY strong message that we will in no way accept what happened in this year’s primary and at the convention. If it takes 4 more years of GOP then so be it.

    Hillary has a much better shot at the Presidency in 2012 after 12 years of Republican rule than she does in 2016 trying to piggyback an Obama Presidency. Do the math. Hillary has one small window of opportunity to show the world what she can do, what a strong, independent, intellegent, and supremely capable woman can do and I, for one, don’t want to miss it.

  99. jules – look at NQ – they have it wrapped up in a nutshell with multiple links.

    This is all bs.

  100. Current democrat “ideology” is built on hatred, venom, contempt for the country and voters, most especially women voters. But there is a freakish preternatural element that adds to the disturbance.

    A blogger said she received a text message from Donna Brazile that ended with the sentence “I see thru you Satan”

    If Obama is seeing dead people and sunbeam epiphanies, and Brazile is eyeballing the devil, then we’re in some kind of hallucinatory political landscape. We cannot, in good conscience and in a state of sanity, turn over the reins of government over to this increasingly bizarre and hate-centric group. Fowler and Michael Moore revel in death by drowning for their political enemies? Ordained by God, is it?

    Right now I’m feeling even more concerned about the cyanide than about the kool-aid.

  101. I gotta go study. Keep prowlin’ PUMAs. And RD, it was a pleasure to meet you in Denver.

  102. Troopergate plays into the narrative that the Republicans are strong and will protect you and the Democrats are weak and care more about criminals than victims.

    Bad move on the part of Obamanation to make an issue of this story

  103. Hillary said Keep Running. That was our signal.

  104. 48, yes and I hope that Democrats don’t cave on November 4 the way the delegates caved.

  105. Have you all been watching or following the leadership that McCain has been showing with the hurricane and convention. He’s being a leader. Frankly, he’s better off without the convention.

  106. Maybe it is the trooper’s baby?

  107. I have for some time now felt that there is a delusional element to bo and his own estimation of his own abilities and accomplishments . Serious clinical delusion . That spectacle of a “convention” frightened me more than anything . I know in my hear Hillary would not have had a spectacle that overtly ostentatious, and wasteful of resources .

  108. or the baby told Palin to fire the trooper? I’ll see what the latest theory is at DK….

  109. The only mistake Sarah made was not going for a “hands on approach” to Troopergate. My family likes to feel the flesh being squeezed through our fingers as we send the abuser to the next life!

  110. ben: I kind of thought the same. Nothing like seizing the opportunity to show some chops. This campaign may be nothing more than glitz and glamor, but this is what they offered us instead of substance so live by the sword, die by the sword.

  111. I was wondering when we’d here from Donna again! Now we’re all devil worshippers. She must’ve seen the PUMA HAKA symbol!

  112. William said:

    But if I vote for Obama, I will not only be validating every fraud, thuggery and evil that was perpetrated in this campaign, I will be assuring that there is virtually no hope for a better political future for any of us.

    Thank God for reasoning, thinking voters that see beyond party loyalty. Not mindless sheep behaving like abused, victimized women; Backing and protecting the abuser even after he beats the crap out of her, and puts her in a hospital. If anything this primary showed how irrelevant and dangerous it is to follow someone because of party loyalty. Actions and behavior of individual candidates count, not having a D o R after their name.

  113. The perfect analogy to the DNC is the Caucus system. And everything PUMA’s are against.

  114. Remember, we had hope that we would have Gore!

    This dissed him like they will continue to diss Hillary if we don’t make them pay for this.

  115. ben, John McCain’s more natural state is that of a work horse rather than a show pony. He is very uncomfortable in front of the glare of cameras and that unease is punctuated when contrasted with Obama’s natural ease as the center of attention.

    On the other hand, the opposite is true in reverse settings.

  116. uh, oh, Taylor and Jearlyn (sp?) do not like “that woman”.

    Just bad, I tell you.

  117. “Now we’re all devil worshippers”

    Now?…I have for a while….

  118. Just let my assemblywoman know what I think:

    “I found during online research that you made a large donation to Hillary Clinton, which I will take as solid evidence of your support for her. As a constituent, I want to make a point of thanking those who supported her candidacy.

    “I wish to express my concern and anger over the misogyny that the Democratic Party failed to address. I am familiar with Senator Obama, having lived a half block from him in Chicago and voted for him for Senate, so I cannot begin to convey my disappointment at the sexist attitudes from his campaign and his online supporters. It has taken the proportions of persecution. This has no place in our party.

    “I also harbor doubts about the fairness of the process in Denver, but I will defer judgement until I have more information about what happened there.

    “I have been a fierce Democrat since I stuffed envelopes for George McGovern at the age of nine. Yet for the first time in my life, my presidential vote is up for grabs. And I am far from alone. Something serious is afoot, and I feel it my duty to inform Democratic elected officials of this growing sentiment.

    “In gratitude for your support of Hillary, you may count on my support. I have newly sharpened focus on politics and a fresh tankful of high octane fuel in my feminist engine.”

    Write your Democratic elected officials and let them know we are for real.

  119. Oh my fucking GAWD!

    The boiz at Americablog are trying to prove that Sarah Palin conceived her first child out of wedlock!

    Um, guys? That’s another “don’t go there!”

    Barack Obama’s parents were married in in February 1961

    Barack was born in August 1961

    Do the math.

  120. I went to Daily Kos for the first time yesterday to see where the trolls live.

    Oh ma Gaaaaad!!!!

    They were in a feeding frenzy of hate over the trashy fake pregnancy theory. They had a poll going where you vote to continue the story:

    Poll: Should we go after this story?
    No, it’s a private matter and you should delete this diary
    24% 3407 votes
    Yes, the future of the world is at stake, nothing’s off the table
    60% 8226 votes
    Not sure yet, need more evidence
    15% 2056 votes

    13689 votes

    Really very disturbing people.

  121. just remember that it is most likely due to coercion.

  122. Umm, wasn’t Obama’s mother three months pregnant with him when she was married?

    Yeah, go there. Really, do it! 😉

  123. This is McCain’s chance to mold the republican party in his image, and frankly, I just didn’t seem him comfortable in that convention setting. While I’m certain the Rs would want everything to go as planned this may hide the nastier side of the party that the independent and swing voters don’t need to see.

    RD, you are absolutely correct. Palin was a gift to the Christian conservatives. She was about locking down the base. If more women come over to his side, that is just gravy.

  124. 48:

    Only two months

  125. Obama ALWAYS gets it WRONG on @ least the 1st response. Many X’s it takes more than that.
    Hillary & McCain get it RIGHT /right AWAY”!
    That’s what comes with experience in having to speak-out on something “before” it can go thru your advisers.
    Being in an “Executive” type role for a good portion of her adult
    life, I trust Sarah Palin will do fine as well. It’s documented Biden is more like Obama even after yrs & yrs of practice.
    I’m NOT ready to say how I’ll vote/or not vote in NOVEMBER; but
    so far I ADMIRE SARAH!!
    Here’s where I’m at:
    I’m a democratic/leaning Independent who is faced with this:
    *I do not TRUST Obama & would not want to vote for him on ANY level, much less PRESIDENT OF THE USA; but I am @ my CORE a democrat. I like Biden but I’m concerned
    about his recent “selling of his soul” to the “ONE”.
    ** I admire / adore Sen. McCain & also now Sarah Palin; but
    I ABSOLUTELY distrust the party they represent MORE than anything, after what they did to the Clintons
    Now I DISTRUST the democratic e-lite’s, for what THEY have done to the Clintons..
    I know I can’t bring myself to pull the lever for Obama, we’ll have to see about the other.

  126. Wasn’t Barrack’s father already married when he “married” Barrack’s mom?

  127. myiq2xu – Really, I don’t believe it.

    If here first child was conceived out of wedlock:

    a) Who cares?

    b) She and her man “did the right thing” and got married.

    c) Palin is a good mother. You got any questions?

  128. I just feel like crying when I see what it could have been, had the stinking party elders not been so dishonest, and absolute morons to boot.

    Yeah, without the shitty antics perpetrated from almost the beginning of this race by the deranged morons of the DNC in residence, what the entire world would be witnessing right now is the amazing march towards the WH of the first woman president and the first black vice-president.

    Crap, I would just love to wring the chicken necks of these supreme morons!

    Go PUMAS!

  129. I’ve always stated if Obama gets a bad poll Gallup and Quinnipiac will give him a favorite poll. There’s NO doubt that Gallup and Quinnipiac are in the tank fo Obama and putting up FIXED polls to try and manipulate the outcome of the election. Gallup and Quinnipiac ofcourse has to occassional give Obama a not so favorable day of polls to coverup their manipulation, but don’t be fooled Obama and Oprah has them in their pockets

  130. Jules, “sore loser.” Yeah, way to win those votes. Will those folks ever learn.

  131. I don’t think the technobrats at little green footballs are buying into the grecian formula messiah. For your amusement:


  132. myiq: I do not care, really one way or another…I would imagine that, if true, the criticsim is offered given the Rs’ history of co-opting morality/values.

  133. I can’t remember if it was MSNBS or CNN — but it was reported on one of those.

  134. Speaking of polls, I found it curious that Rasmussen and Gallup were 4 points apart for several days. I don’t think Obama got nearly the bump that Gallup predicted.

  135. Poll: Should we go after this story?
    No, it’s a private matter and you should delete this diary
    24% 3407 votes
    Yes, the future of the world is at stake, nothing’s off the table
    60% 8226 votes
    Not sure yet, need more evidence
    15% 2056 votes

    I have the demographics on that.

    60% thugs, 24% showing signs of scruples, and that 15%… not sure yet.

  136. I don’t think Hillary doesn’t want us to vote for Obama.

  137. But that’s not my concern.

  138. OMG! What difference could it possibly make that she was pregnant or not before she married? We actually do not know if Obama’s parents were even officially married since he already had a wife in Kenya. Who in God’s name cares?

  139. Hi RD!
    The fact is, I’m talking by myself, the ONLY reason I registered democrat was to vote in the primaries for HRC. Not only I voted for her, I personally met her here in South Florida, I even have a picture with her.I worked hard in her campaign also. For me, coming from South America where politics is a fake, coming to the USA I thought here was a REAL”‘ democracy ” and that my vote will count. But as you well know, it wasn’t that way and that was only the beginning of the process of electing the Democratic nominee. I’m also very disappointed and angry not only about the DNC, the RBC, etc.. etc but also at how Hillary confronted the situation. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw her on TV suspending the roll call!!! For me, that was it.
    Now, one thing I’m sure is that I WON’T vote for Obama and what are my choices: 1) vote for MCCain 2) vote for the independent candidate who has no chance of winning. I’ve decided to vote for MCCain although I disagree with some of his policies.

  140. masslib? So she wants us to vote for O? (sorry not sure what you mean)

  141. masslib – I couldn’t figure out your position either.

  142. Pat, one pregnancy was transcendental and redeeming, the other was mundane and dirty….

    Secular revivalism.

  143. ‘Republican Strategist and NBC News Political Analyst Mike Murphy: “The question is that I keep coming back with, you know, I don’t believe the puma theory. I don’t believe that pro-choice Democratic Primary voters are going to switch parties to the Republican to vote for a pro-life running mate who’s a Christian conservative…’

    ..Oh it’s the uterus argument again. My vagina doesn’t vote, but my arm does, and it will pull the lever for whomever I damn well please.

  144. Bill said vote for candidate Y.

    Hillary said Keep Running.

  145. I say there is still a chance BO has to resign in disgrace.

  146. BTW, Ben Carlson

    I did take a look at the wonderful pics you mentioned that are on John McCain’s daughter’s blog.

    I immediately noted the Costco brand generic wipes Sarah was using for the baby!

    When McCain/Palin are in office how long before Airforce One hits ebay?

  147. Ooops! I’m in moderation. Are Costco wipes off limits?

  148. Hillary’s position is no different than ours. Vote your conscience and whatever you feel is the right thing to do. I may not have to vote for McCain but I will do so if it means stopping an Obama administration from winning in my state. In my mind, he poses a greater danger than 4 yrs of McCain.

  149. Pat,

    Hillary respects our autonomy and intellect. Obama and the DNC do not.

  150. Remind me, Pat, MA?

  151. I made a new post inspired by asshat John Avarosis


  152. Hillary is more aware of the insidiousness of the current leadership within the Dem Party. We have viewed it from a distance but she has had to live with it.

    upstate: MA it is.

  153. We’re all re-visiting that “best and brightest bloggers” concept. Whoa, if some of the commentary weren’t so truly fucking dense, I might consider it condescending. But at the end of the day, it’s just appalling simple-minded dimwittery. Always a lightbulb moment when you realize that you gave folks you admire waaay more credit in the complex-idea department than they ever deserved. Lord knows they must be lousy chess players.

  154. I couldn’t stop myself from babbling. Thankfully the site administrator deleted my comment.

    (Edited for clarity)

  155. Now we’re hearing Bush may not attend the convention. Yet another boost for the ticket. Can you see the bumper stickers–

    Nobama/NoBush ’08.

  156. I keep humming “Strangers in the Night.” It must be my newly found appreciation for the Republican Party a la McCain/Palin.

  157. Oblivion, sure thing, only not.

  158. I have never raised the issue of “who was conceived when” before because it is irrelevant.

    Sarah Palin married her high school sweetheart (a Russell Crowe look-alike) and is still married to him

    That was in 1988, when she was 24 years old

    I seriously doubt that she will lose any votes if it turns out she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding day.

  159. “I was thinking what Arabella mentioned on another thread– the Biden selection is just not making it. Could he relinquish his berth on the love train to Hillary Clinton? I doubt it, because that implies enough rationality and realism in the O team to realize that it is going to lose. It would be seen as the ultimate gesture in cynicism.”

    For Pete’s sake, Biden isn’t the problem with the ticket; it’s OBAMA.

  160. “Let us refrain from divisiveness and unite behind our collective best hope”

    I am going tu place an upside down sticker of O/B 08 in my car

  161. Ick – I just heard BO talking about the storm. This moran can not speak in more than one syllable sentences. It is very irritating.

  162. tu=to heh.

  163. Palin – not a virgin at her wedding? Then that sinner is out of here!

  164. I don’t know if I ever want to support a party who threw away an election when they could have had triple power at the WH to really affect change.

    They had one candidate that was a sure winner and suppressed her very real support. They rolled the dice and lost and now there is no assurance that they will get the WH at all. Not only that, they had one last opportunity for a sure win and they rolled the dice on that one too. For some reason that no one will ever understand, Obama took 18 million voters and told them he didn’t need them. Bad decision Obama.

    I wonder whose heads are rolling within the Dem party right now. Besides Obama, Donna Brazile has to be at the top of the list.

    If Obama wins they will deem it all worth it for they will have succeeded with their plan to oust the Clintons from the party leadership. Quite a gamble.

  165. My best hope sure as hell ain’t bambi. At least we know McCain isn’t afraid of a strong woman.

  166. UpstateNY, will that read 80 B/O ?

    (I couldn’t make a backwards ‘B”)

  167. I was a virgin on my wedding night (I have the sheets to prove it)….oh wait.

  168. Sorry if this has been posted already, but it’s an Obama site tied to a phony Palin smear site. Nasty http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31096_Whos_Behind_Anti-Palin_Smear_Site

  169. 80 BOs cannot be wrong.


  171. Palin was not a virgin on her wedding night – that’s the case against her from the progressives?

    Holy Moly! God is MAD!

  172. In this day and age, when girls are encouraged to lose their virginity by the age of 13 thanks to Brit Brit and Lindsay, dragging the whole concept of who was a virgin on their wedding day is ridiculous! What audience is that designed to shock and awe?

  173. I told you, Carol. That woman is no good.

  174. #
    swanspirit, on August 31st, 2008 at 2:18 pm Said:



    I’d prefer not to think about it.


    I can think of a few reasons where the answer may be a resounding YES.

  176. I do not want Hillary added to the ticket as a replacement for Biden. Can you imagine how degrading that would be to her?

    If they want Hillary to take over it better be in the top spot. The Dems are going to have to make Obama fall on his own sword if they want to save this election.

  177. #
    swanspirit, on August 31st, 2008 at 2:18 pm Said:


    Perhaps only Dr. Dean knows for sure….

  178. Well I guess this explains Gustav – God is mad at Sarah for her outrageous sexual behavior!

    News at 11.

  179. Avarosis is an asshat.

    First of all, Democrats aren’t supposed to be judgmental.

    Secondly, people who live in glass houses . . .

  180. Carol, on August 31st, 2008 at 2:18 pm Said:

    Palin was not a virgin on her wedding night – that’s the case against her from the progressives?


    I know. This is where we are. Beautiful. I can feel the hope and change.

  181. Is Gustav a Russian name?

  182. Sorry for OT but has the latest Gallup Poll been discussed?


    Seems Obama has dropped 2 points post his “big speech”

    lol!~ Hillary n’ Bill gave him a bigger bounce than he did.

  183. well madonna supports bo and she is

    “like a virgin”

    sort of …in some fluffy occult sense maybe

  184. I still haven’t figured out what audience he was playing to.

  185. “Gustav” sounds Swedish to me. There was a King Gustav somewhere in the last 100 years. But what do I know, I am stupid.

  186. Bill and Hillary “lived” together before they got married. What does this make them?

  187. Obama is asking his supporters to help the Hurricane victims in Mississippi, LA and FL.
    Squadrons of Obama supporters will text mail the people in affected areas: R U OK?

    Obama: “My supporters will ascertain that the residents of the hurricane damaged areas have charged their lap top and cell phone batteries and that they have internet access. Anybody who has a problem logging on to Obama’s blogs will receive technical assistance. If you are without electricity or internet access at this time, please e-mail or text us.”

  188. nycstray, on August 31st, 2008 at 2:23 pm Said:

    Sorry for OT but has the latest Gallup Poll been discussed?



    Holy Apollo in a chariot, Gallup really is in the tank for Jr. I looked at the sidebar stories on that linked page and laughed. Subtle!

  189. For all the Hillary supporters who caved and chose to betray her by getting on the Obama train just ask yourself WWHD?

    Would the Hillary you know take a stand against what occurred this primary season or would she have acquiesced? If her hands were not tied she would be the lead PUMA. You know it, I know it, anyone who knows Hillary knows it, James Carville knows it. 😉

  190. Hagee must now be blaming the latest hurricane travesty on the Dems nominating Obama. Now this is “crazy” I can believe in!

  191. Is it really a good idea to have masses of people texting to cells in an effected area? My experience with emergencies and cell phones is that the systems get overloaded without have lots of extra people sending “R U OK?” messages.

  192. Gustav

    From 1521 to 1523, with an army of peasants, Gustav led a successful revolt and drove the Danes out of Sweden. His victory resulted in the dissolution of the Union of Kalmar, which in 1397 had placed Sweden and Norway under the Danish Crown. Gustav was administrator of the kingdom from 1521 to 1523, when the Riksdag, or national assembly, elected him king. Gustav created a strongly united state by introducing a sound financial administration, strengthening manufacturing, trade, and agricultural interests, and increasing the military forces.

  193. This seems like an appropriate thread to put in a pitch for the Green Party. Check out the McKinney/Clemente website.

    May I suggest some strategery (couldn’t resist)? The republicans have plenty of money. Consider helping the smaller parties. McKinney and Clemente can and are going after the heart of the alleged Obama base. The republicans can pound him from one side, the Greens from another. Please help with ballot access–sign those petitions! Please consider donations. One of the most important points is media and polling access. The smaller parties are not included in polling, but debate organizers say candidates must poll a certain amount to be included. Please demand their inclusion by the big polling groups. Please demand their inclusion in the debates. Thank you for your consideration.

    For C-SPAN watchers: see McKinney’s half-hour interview for Road to the White House, which is scheduled to air on Sunday, September 7 at 6:30 pm EST and again at 9:30 pm EST the same night.

    Question for riverdaughter: Will you allow me to post my pro-McKinney “speeches” that I wrote?

  194. Carol, myiq, Piper — thanks for the info re the Trooper story. I had an inkling it was much ado about nothing, considering who is foaming at the mouth about it.

    ugsome, on August 31st, 2008 at 1:53 pm Said:
    “sore loser.” Yeah, way to win those votes. Will those folks ever learn. — No kidding. And that’s from my own dad.

  195. Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy didn’t we dispose of you earlier. You are giving me eye strain and repetitive use injury having to tell you to Fuck Off so many times.

    Pleaseeeeeeee, take my advice and Fuck Off.

    We don’t allow people to call the Clinton’s r*cists!

  196. Then somebody please explain how 90+% of the black community now supports Obama. Or are you trying to say that all at once an epiphany took place and they all saw the same light at once? Statistically speaking, your argument does not hold up. Name one another constituency that is voting in that high a percentage and I may agree. Otherwise, they are voting as a bloc because the candidate shares the same skin color. So far as I can tell, he has done little or nothing for that community that would elicit another that overwhelming support.

  197. I gloss over your comments, nothing personal.

  198. Not you Pat, Jaimito’s.

  199. Here is a link to Heidi Li’s blog on the upcoming Massachusetts primary where Ed O Reilly faces off with Kerry. PUMAs please consider throwing your weight behind O Reilly.


  200. nycstray – It was a joke. Obama did not say any such thing.

  201. ea, why don’t you get your own wordpress blog? They’re pretty cheap.

  202. Jimmy: ummmmmmmmm ummmmmm
    errrrrrrr ahhhhhhhhhhh what ummmmmmmmm did ahhhhhh errrrrr you ummmmm cut ahh ahhh errr and paste.

    Tired yet?

  203. I am a Clinton Democrat. I want to reform the party.

    I’m not interested in the Green Party.

    We have a plan in place to reclaim the Democratic party. I will not vote for Obama because he is unqualified, and the process used to elect him was riddled with fraud.

  204. I used to be a D. Now I am an I. I will not vote D, R or Green this year. oh well…..my vote.

  205. To try and deny identity politics at this late date is obvioulsy systemic oversaturation with kool aid ….

    and also to deny that Michelle said this …” Black America will wake up”

  206. katiebird

    may i remind people here i have been a dem in exile since ’96. voted nader, nader, cobb.

    conventions are known for their strong arm crap.


  207. Arabella Trefoil @2:26p
    If you are without electricity or internet access E-mail or Text the campaign am I missing something?
    can you e-mail without internet access?
    How is the job search coming along?



  208. Guess I am not that stupid; kind of figured Gustav was once the King of Sweden. This is exactly why Ed likes it here with me. I stimulate his mind.

  209. You know, my African-American coworkers in the office who have been my unstated allies against the right-wing neocons for all of these years were all in a state of wild-eyed euphoria in anticipation of the “historical significance” in crowning Barack Obama this past week.

    They did not have a clue of the high price exacted by the Democratic Party leadership to insert such an unworthy and unqualifed person as the nominee and the much larger price that will be paid in November.

    I have told myself so far to leave it alone – that, like Riverdaughter said, it is quite natural. If I’m pressed about my lack of enthusiasm they will get the full answer. But I really do try to avoid politics in the office place for alot of reasons.

    I cannot vote for McCain. He has embraced Bush who I consider a serious war criminal and although he is truly a goofy person, I don’t consider him a total power hungry loose cannon and incompetant (at this time).

    I will vote for neither in this election and vote for solid Democratic down-ticket candidates for a functioning divided government. I agree that this will give us an opportunity to change the DNC and once again get the best and brightest mainstream FDR/JFK/WJC/HRC Democrat to run in 2012.

  210. And Peter that’s why I spent a fair amount of time answering your question in depth rather than treating you as an irritating troll.

  211. Piper and RD,

    It was good to see in Denver.

    RD…hope all is well with your iPhone.

  212. I was thinking.. dangerous I know .. for us wimmins to bother our little heads ..but
    ANYONE John McCain would have picked for VP would have more accomplishments than BO … given his lack thereof …
    But bo is also no longer the new kid, the youngest, nor is he the prettiest … I bet he hates it

  213. I’m undecided about whether Palin is as squeaky clean as she’s presented, but she seems decidedly libertarian. For example, she’s antiabortion personally, but there’s no sign she wants to impose her beliefs on others. (Disclaimer: No sign yet.) Putting her on the ticket lets the evangelicals vote the R ticket, and I suspect this all-American hunter and fisher will be wildly popular in the West. Remember the New Yorker article that said the Dem leadership wants to abandon the working class for the West?

    I don’t see the point of drilling in the name of national security when most of our oil comes from this hemisphere and U.S. oil exports are at a record high (http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKN0325640920080703).

    A comment in the Jane Smiley thread at Huffpo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/make-her-whine_b_122648.html):
    “I’m from the South, too, and your post shows why Hillary MUST come out as strongly against Palin as Jane Smiley has. Otherwise, Hillary will be guaranteeing the end of abortion rights, not to mention the scuttling of national health insurance for those sad women she kept referring to all throughout her campaign. It’s really very much Hillary’s responsibility now to stop Palin with women, or at least with her supporters. If Hillary does not do all she can to accomplish this, she will be complicit in all that Palin and McCain do after the election to destroy everything Hillary has fought for all her life.”

    It’s like your mom is responsible for everything wrong with the world.

  214. Good point! Obama loves nothing more than to be the center of attention. Having to share time with Hillary who refused to “get out” when told was an irritant. Now Sarah Palin has taken up the spotlight. He must be frantic! Look for him to be pumping oars down in New Orleans if the city floods. With Sean Penn riding shotgun while Biden “talks” the storm down.

  215. “I stimulate his mind”

    Sure… his mind….

  216. “Who’s Behind Anti-Palin Smear Site?”

    “Suddenly appearing among the Google search results for “sarah palin gay,” a web site titled: Sarah Palin Supports Gay Rights…This sure looks like the work of the dastardly right-wing anti-gay attack machine, doesn’t it?…But look who’s really behind this….Well, well. “Obamadefense.com,” eh?…And what happens if you enter obamadefense.com on your browser’s address line?….Why, you’re redirected to none other than FightTheSmears.com, the official Barack Obama site that’s supposed to be defending him against smears.”

    A Must-See post, to see just how far Nobama supporters will go in a smear campaign. Quite slimy. Scroll down to mid page for the article and updates. The more desperate these people get, the more Nobama scares me:


  217. S — I’m already on board voting for Ed O’Reilly, for strategic reasons if nothing else (although Ed has plenty to recommend him anyway)

    I don’t think he can win, but I think he can make a creditable showing. That puts him in line either to run for some other office at the state level where he can be a voice for (true) change, or make another run at Kerry later.

    Also, it may encourage some other (true) Democrat with better name recognition and better chance of success to defeat Kerry to run.

    Either, hopefully, would smack Kerry out of his smug, condescending complacency toward the voters of Massachusetts.

  218. RD: Welcome to the resistance (senator)!

    Have a good day.

  219. Hard to believe the post racial, “transcendent” candidate would allow his foot soldiers and minions to conduct themselves this way in his name. Oh wait, I forgot this is how they do it in Chicago!

    Just waiting for Ludacris to compose another hummable diddy to Sarah Palin. Sure to be another winner on the Scuzball Hit Parade!

  220. When Hillary “stumps” for Obama, she is careful to state the reasons why “he should be president’. Those reasons are all consistent with her platform. She is advancing her platform and calling on him to deliver. This seems a reasonable compromise.

    Hillary already “tipped her hat” to Palin and in the same breath said that McCain/Palin is wrong on the issues. It seems that people aren’t listening. Or maybe the media fails to report what she said.

  221. Obama has an innovative approach to disaster recovery. It’s virtual and it’s cool. His volunteers will text message disaster victims: R U OK?


    to: disaster victim
    from: Obamabot

    You OK?


    disaster victim: No, not OK. No electricity, no ISP.

    Obot: Find a battery for your PC

    disaster victim: I can’t hear you. I’m not connected to the internet

    Obot:: How old R U?

    dv: 60 yrs old and no bp medication, insulin or food.


    Press Conference

    Obama: We tried to help the people in the affected area, but the folks didn’t answer our text messages or e-mails.

    Reporter: They didn’t have electricity, batteries or an ISP connnection so that’s why they didn’t get back to you.

    Obama: No. I uh uh disagree with you on that. Older folks don’t embrace new technology. Because they’re uh uh old.

    Press corps laughs and claps

  222. I will vote for Ed O’Reilly in this month’s primary although I doubt he has a chance of defeating Kerry this time around. Just to see Kerry have to put in time to campaign is enough for me. He usually just phones it in as he takes advantage of the complacency of MA voters. At least Ed made him sit up and take notice for once that we are all not as much in love with Kerry as Theresa may be.

  223. gmanedi,

    Yeah, i think everyone knows that if BO tanks the fault’s Hillary’s, of course, and the fact he’s surrounded by superior morons (or he’s a superior moron himself) has absolutely nothing to do with notin’

  224. Riverdaughter just a wonderful post!

    WWHD? We who love and admire her know what we
    must do. Break the corrupt DNC party and it’s candidate for a new day for Hillary’s election in 2012.

    I don’t ever recall Hillary Clinton bashing another woman or another woman candidate. If I was a betting
    person I’d bet she’s mighty impressed with Gov.Sarah Palin.

  225. You see, I don’t think Ds are morons. I think they were outsmarted by Rs this cycle.

    Maybe next time Ds will do better.

  226. I second Arabella Trefoil’s decision: “I will not vote for Obama because he is unqualified, and the process used to elect him was riddled with fraud”. It was no less riddled with sexism and misogyny. Casting a vote for Obama is not a moral imperative, as the DNC insists and his fanatic followers believe. It is a moral imperative however, for Americans to vigorously protect and defend their democratic ideals and stand up for the civil rights of all citizens, and that includes women.

  227. Yes, the sexism throughout this campaign was awful, but as a woman musician I have dealt with sexism my entire life. That did not bother me nearly as much as the Obama’s cries of racism against Hillary and Bill. He was willing to lie to get votes and it worked. I can’t imagine how hurt the Clintons were by this. Yesterday, at Stephanie Tubbs Jones Memorial, Hillary made a comment about fair-weather friends. She nailed it, as usual. I will never vote for Obama and plan to vote for McCain. I hope that Hillary is back in 2012 and will again do all I can to help her become President.

  228. katiebird:

    i did not pose a question. I was actually agreeing that the dnc, the selection (note i did not say election) and convention was corrupt and, additionally, that they have been for years.

    i have no doubt that most, if not all, of the chicanery occurred this year.

    your response to my initial response led me to believe you consider me an obama supporter.

    i am not, hence my second post.


  229. William, on August 31st, 2008 at 1:13 pm

    William, I really like what you said. I feel the same way.

  230. Chris, we already went into that. Did you see the actual video? She did not say that.

  231. WS,

    Hillary will be 69 on October 26, 2016. I know John McCain’s 72, but don’t you think that’s a long time to wait for something that, by all rights, is hers already?

  232. “I will never vote for Obama and plan to vote for McCain. I hope that Hillary is back in 2012 and will again do all I can to help her become President.” Karen

    I’m still undecided, but I have this lovely image of McCain/Palin working with Sen. Clinton across that isle. 🙂

  233. katiebird,

    Are you promoting wordpress over other blog providers or starting my own blog? Or both? One thing about wordpress is the lack of preview capability. It is easy to miss a messed-up link in the input text boxes. However, I understand some of the other providers have been ¿hijacked? Starting my own blog…thought about it. Honestly, I spend too much time on blogs at the expense of doing other stuff I should be doing. Like right now–I am postponing an unpleasant task that has to be done.

    Oh, just so you all know–some Green sites get people making untrue, nasty comments also. My guess is that some Obama supporters are just into spreading hate. It is very sad. Paz.

  234. Hillary will not be president in 2016. No way would the Democratic party get 16 consecutive years.

    Obama and the party made it clear that this election cycle they made it priorty one to remove the Clintons from influence. Obama will not give Hillary a prominent postition because it would run counter to their long term plan. Obama’s party will not be the party of the people, make no mistake about that.

    Electing Obama will set in motion the destruction of the FDR party.

  235. I am curious what started everyone worrying whether Hillary is going to say something negative about Palin? Why should she. Where is this coming from?

    And why again is Hillary being threatened that she better not say anything, where is the same sentiment about Obama?

    I wonder if it has something to do with an article I saw yesterday where a republican actually put Hillary down a bit and people were a bit miffed. So have the republicans now turned this around and are throwing out the Hillary better not say anything?

    Very strange indeed.

  236. RD: Kudos from the other side of PA, your post is spot on and beautifuuly written. Hillary Clinton will always own my heart, but in this place, at this time, I will be supporting the old maverick and the young fireball because, for me, the issues have been trumped by the ethics. The only way to cut out the cancer invading the Democratic Party is to put them down, and put them down hard. Nothing short of a Republican victory will do that, and so I look forward to Hillary’s run in 2012 with patience and understanding that she will then be my party’s symbol of rebirth.

  237. ea, on August 31st, 2008 at 3:40 pm Said:


    Are you promoting wordpress over other blog providers or starting my own blog? Or both? One thing about wordpress is the lack of preview capability. It is easy to miss a messed-up link in the input text boxes”

    ea, there is a preview capability in wordpress. It’s activated by the “view this post/page ” button just above “Publish”. You can preview your page or post before publishing, make changes, hit refresh and see those changes.

    Best wishes.

  238. …she will then be my party’s symbol of rebirth.

    That a great way of thinking about 2012.

  239. ea and Peter Anderson: One. More. Time. We are not going to defect to the Green party. We are Democrats.
    I do not intend to make this site a platform for Green party politics any more than I intend to hand it over to the Republicans. This site is about keeping Democrats together and pointing them to downticket candidates that need their help.
    I’m not going to stop anyone from voting for whoever they want on Nov 4 for president. But this site is not endorsing anyone for that spot, least of all the Green party who makes a habit of nominating completely non-viable candidates.
    You can stay and comment all you like but there won’t be a post in your future.
    Just sayin’.

  240. Riverdaughter, I just got to read your blog and watch the clip. Exquisite!!! I definitely “felt” this post. I don’t know how you keep coming up with such great stuff.

    It really isn’t so hard to understand that our resistance to Obama is really about the corrupt DNC and the way BO was selected just as much as it is about BO being unqualified for high office. There have been so many “salt in the wounds” moments in this primary and convention, for Hillary herself, and for PUMAs. I’m so ashamed of the Democratic Party. No, it’s not hard to see, but the MSM and the people who put such outrageous comments out on the blogs that state that it’s about Hillary revenge are either blinded by “the light” or they are simply “simple minded.” Perhaps it’s both.

    Keep your words and deep emotions coming.

  241. RD:

    Please see the sequence of posts here. I only mentioned Green Party in response to Katiebird whose post implied I suffered Obama-itis.

    My original post actually supported what you said and extended it.

    I will refrain from gp mentions in the future.


  242. eggplant

    Thanks for the info.


    Cool by me. That is why I asked–wanted to check first. I don’t come to this site everyday and don’t read all the posts. I interpreted your post this morning as not having made up your mind yet about what to do this year. BTW, no one is asking you to defect. I am asking you to consider Greens as one possible answer to your dilemma of this year’s election cycle. Good luck with the reform efforts.

  243. Oh, just have to correct a misunderstanding and a mischaracterization. I did not want to have a “post” post like you or katiebird or garychapelhill, et al. I just wanted to put it in the comments. The monitors go through and “clean up” things, so I wasn’t going to post it if it wasn’t welcome in the first place or simply be deleted. I wish to respect your space.

    The Greens have fielded candidates in three presidential elections–ever–in this country. It is not really accurate to say they are in the habit of running non-viable candidates. McKinney has actually won several elections.


  244. Thanks, RD.

    I heard Hillary loud and clear: stay tuned. No one is giving up – we’re just in a timeout until we take over on November 5th.

  245. I’m not ashamed of the Democratic party, I’m embarrassed by it!

    Need a break until they get straigtened out. Maybe a nice 4 years with a maverick and reformer would do it.

    Hopefully, this election will get those lefty wingnuts out of there!

  246. Riverdaughter, you nailed it. The DNC no longer Has a name. (Unless it’s Mud…)

    The thing is, I really don’t want to see anyone thinking that Palin is a gimmick. She is not. She is a tool of the Religious Right, and one of their bigwigs said such on the radio the other day. McCain did this for their money and their votes. If he wins, the RR will get in there and take over, and they will stay for decades, worse than an unwanted guest. And even more depressing, you’ll never see another run from Hillary, because no party runs good people against incumbents, which is what Palin will be if McCain is elected.

    I can never in good conscience vote for anyone with the RR behind them. If there is a way to keep things together without sending our country down the toilet, I would like to know what that is. Right now, I am not voting. But I’d rather be embarrassed by the Democrats than lorded over by the Religious Right.

  247. I’m disgusted by what the DNC has done and will work to oust any who propped up, enabled, or abetted in this sham and shame of a “primary” season.

    Obama is still the selected, not elected, candidate and I do not approve of thuggish, brutal behavior by anyone or on behalf of anyone.

    I hope Gloria Allred kicks butt and takes names. If anyone has the stature to get this story out, it’s her.

  248. I cry foul on your deleting the post from oblivion upthread.

    It was from my husband, a donator to Hillary’s campaign, staunch Dem, and lover of Bill Clinton.

    He teases me constantly about being a PUMA and wanted to respond to this thread to provide a view from someone who does not have a dog in the fight. This w3as his very first blog post. You let so much other crap through.

    There was nothing wrong with the post. You guys need to lighten up.

  249. There is no reason to be loyal where there is corruption. Instead it is a moral imperative to fight corruption.

  250. The reasoning behind RD remarks are correct, but I must add, a movement that compromises its principles will not long survive. I have voted Democratice for over fifty years, I have never in my life time voted Republican, but I will do that in the general election. I will be selective in all of the candidates and only vote for those that I think deserve my vote. I think the DNC needs to be punished and I think PUMA should lead the way and the goal shou;ld be the formation of an organization that not only will defeat Obama in the general election, but will go on to reform the Democractic party to represent the principles of that party.In closing, a polictical party must represent the wishes and the aspiration of the members of that party.

  251. For me this is not about Hillary Clinton nor about Barack Obama. Rather, this is about moving the Republicans out of the White House. I am so very afraid that all the focus on Clinton and Obama is making everyone ignore the issues. I have family in Iraq and more family in line to go there. I want to see reform for health care. I don’t think off shore drilling is the answer to crazy fuel and energy prices. I don’t want the national debt to continue to grow, virtually unchecked. In short, I AM NOT FOR THE REPUBLICAN PLATFORM!!!! And, WANT A DEMOCRATIC WHITE HOUSE NOW!! Please try to forgive whatever was done that angered, upset, or hurt you. I believe Hillary will be back and that she will get the nomination next time around — by a landslide. Meanwhile, can we please just get the Repubs out of the White House. That is the most important thing.
    It’s like a family battle….. You battle each other to the point of blood and bruises inside the family. However, outside the family, you present a united front so no one else pounds on your family members. Behind closed dooors, you fight whomever you need to in order to make things function the right way!
    Lastly, I don’t want to see the first woman to make it to President or VP to be anyone other than a Democrat, nor anyone other than Hillary!

  252. Being an old hand at political involvement, veteran net/political forum denizen who hasn’t had much time for it recently and novice participant in the blogosphere, I must give kudos to some of the frighteningly keen minds – and gifted writers – who are dealing with complex issues so insightfully and articulately. Professional journalists can’t hold a candle to many of these (largely) women whose ability to get to the heart of the issues is stunning – and should be an embarrassment to mainstream media and their dumbed-down, misguided and misleading non-coverage. Riverdaughter earns particular praise for many reasons – not the least of is her wit. Ladies, you kick ass!

  253. For Dee and others who cannot abide seeing the Republicans in the White House again . . .

    This deep question haunts us all. PUMAs seem to be loyal Democrats in their political histories. The thought of not supporting the Democratic ticket presents tremendous angst for us all. But, we must consider a higher issue than the pragmatic issue of “What Now.” The DNC has hijacked the Democratic Party and most democrats as well as the press seem to be willing to just let it go. The main reason the PUMA movement has developed and blossomed is that such undemocratic practices cannon be left unchallenged. There are also those, like me, who have fundamental issues with Senator Obama. My own moment of awakening was during the Rev. Wright revelations.

    We have little pragmatic assurance that our troops will get home any earlier with Obama as president than with McCain, other than rhetoric. Energy issues will have to be dealt with by whoever wins. Yes, the party platforms are vastly different, but we Democrats have the hope that downticket elections will net us effective control of the Congress to override vetoes and prevent ultra-conservative justices to be appointed. Very few PUMAs who will vote for McCain really WANT a Republican in the White House for four more years. But as HIllary reminded us by quoting Harriet Tubman, we must “keep on going.” If our Democratic Party gets away with totalitarian selection of candidates, then we cannot and must not call ourselves Democrats.

    Ultimately, the decision is a private one for each individual in November. We have come this far (and it is a tremendous distance we have come.) Now is the time to “keep going.” Sacrifice becomes sacred in our time of standing up and saying NO MORE! My heart goes out to my fellow democrats who cannot stand with me. I am not seeking to harm you in any way. I am standing up for you as well as for me.

  254. Reuters is reporting that Palin as just announced that her 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant, will raise the baby and marry the father.

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