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Thursday: Up All Night? What to read if you’re not snoring

I know, you’re going to be lucky to drag yourself to bed after falling asleep on the couch watching the snore-fest at the Barackopolis. But for those of you (who possibly skipped the show) who are still awake I’ve compiled a tour of fascinating posts.

First up is our friend MyIQ2xu who’s Klownhaus has moved way beyond scary clowns today with several very interesting posts. Purging Dissent Is Not Democratic asks “Are “lefty” blogs purging dissent?” (shaking my head) Also, he asks, Is Something Wrong? You’ve GOT to see the illustration.  Seriously.

At By the Fault, Charles has a McCain commercial that actually shocked me.

Oh, MY! InsightAnalytical has this The GOP Toolbar…the Latest Thing in Their Arsenal… THIS you won’t believe. Plus a timely reminder of Gore Vidal’s Best Man. (sigh) or not so timely now.  I guess.

And Dr. Violet Socks – The Reclusive Leftist – Has something to say about The Kangaroo Convention.

Incredible. It wasn’t enough to have the usual fake roll-call vote; they had to interrupt it for a fake nomination-by-acclamation. And this after last night’s travesty of forcing the actual winner of the Democratic primaries — Hillary Clinton — to rally the party behind the crook who stole the nomination.

Sugar is ready to rumble.

Annabelle at Peacocks and Lilies has a VERY interesting take on the Roll Call.  I haven’t read what she said anywhere else.

I try to skip around the Blogroll as I put these lists together.  But, I’m sure I miss lots of good interesting posts — even posts I’ve intended to include sometimes.  So please share your suggestions in the comments.

AND — THIS is an Open Thread.

156 Responses

  1. I’m picking my nose. See?

    (Edited for the amusement of the Site Administrator)

  2. Important news – I listed to My Two Cents tonight & Heidi Li was on — she listened to the whole Obama speech tonight (I did not — only saw the end) and she said that this speech that the pundits are praising for being “so down to earth” and “in the right direction for Obama” has whole passages lifted from Hillary’s stump speech — without attribution of course. Ha! I wonder what the pundits will have to say about that — If I still posted at TL, I would rub BTD’s nose in it.

  3. I’ve got new shoes.

    (Edited for the amusement of the Site Administrator)

  4. Charles Babington from the AP drove Olbermann even more insane than he already his with his analysis:

    Analysis: Obama spares details, keeps up attacks

    Barack Obama, whose campaign theme is “change we can believe in,” promised Thursday to “spell out exactly what that change would mean.”

    But instead of dwelling on specifics, he laced the crowning speech of his long campaign with the type of rhetorical flourishes that Republicans mock and the attacks on John McCain that Democrats cheer. The country saw a candidate confident in his existing campaign formula: tie McCain tightly to President Bush, and remind voters why they are unhappy with the incumbent.

    Oy!

  5. I cannot believe the STUPIDITY of the PUNDITS and AMERICANS in general. ONE speech does not a man make. His ENTIRE history is one of crime, lies, racism, sexism, graft, politics as normal FOR CHICAGO south side (i.e. THUGGERY), etc., etc….he could get up there and say GOD told him to run and I would just turn, cough, and keep walking…

    He is a joke, the DONC is a joke, and anyone supporting him is a joke. Only problem is I am not laughing because a plot is underway and I am unsure that we will be able to defeat them… BUT I’m GONNA TRY!!!

  6. angie – I told my husband the same as we watched the speechifying. He just gave Hillary’s speech right down to the ‘this is not about me…” but it sounded so tin coming from a Greek temple 😉

    I did think he delivered a good speech – recycled though it was. I’d support the fool if I believed he could do any of it. I supported the last candidate who said the same things – who could deliver.

  7. I think The Precious will be able to do that all by his own self.

    I’ve been in Denver all week, talking to folks from various states. Most of them sound pretty iffy about his chances.

    He’ll get a Convention bounce from the Clintons, but it’ll be gone by this time next week.

    I didn’t watch the speech, mostly because nothing he says will convince me to vote for him (and I gave my ticket to a friend of a friend from here in Denver). Is it true he didn’t mention HRC at all?!

  8. The speech reader fell apart tonight trying to channel a State of the Union speech by Bill Clinton. I thought
    the Vegas staging would backfire in its gaudiness, which it did (those were
    pseudo West Wing windows behind The One), but the huge stadium overwhelmed him, made him seem distant, small, out-of-touch, and made
    his speech hard to follow–it was all over the place, too.

    Why was this man sent by God as Pelosi stated? Follow the money?

    These are Soros Dems. He’s got
    the bank that funds Pelosi’s PAC that buys the supers for her candidate. Needs a compliant one,
    the greener the better.

    The bank is going to make more money than Blackwater in Iraq rebuilding our decrepit infrastructure. Someone has to do it, why not make a big profit
    off the taxpayers?

  9. To Obama supporters:

    This site is a refuge and comments that don’t please the site administrators are not left to stand.

    That’s the policy of this site.

  10. Dances, I’m a little slow – I thought it was serious!

  11. I agree with Heidi about the stump speech borrowing and is it just ME?—
    Yes,
    it is all about YOU! If you cared about this country, you’d stay in the Senate
    and learn it inside and out.

    Bill’s prototypic State of the Union speech were woven in, as well. For a man
    whose campaign was based on Clinton slandering, he certainly doesn’t have
    much consistency.

    A boring dud of a speech. I expected much more based on the hype.

  12. He should have come out dressed up like Elvis. That would have done it, no?

  13. For me, the campaign stopped when Hillary suspended her campaign. Although I hung on to a sliver of chance that democracy in the democratic party was still alive, that all died yesterday. My mind is made up: I cannot contribute to the election of this person Obama. It means I withhold my vote and give it to McCain. It is more important for me that Obama does not become president.

    PUMA!

  14. Nice try but hit the road.

  15. SCSIBug: Do you have a uniform answer for why anyone would vote for Obama? Why would you expect independent individuals to have a uniform answer for opposing Obama?

  16. katiebird, I was counting down from when you said that to when the whining about censorship would begin. Please turn over control of the bandwidth that you guys pay for to whoever demands it immediately! That means now! And God, why does every troll think that he invented the wheel? Yup, new one, never heard before. Endless repetition for the benefit of the lazy never gets old.

    You know what we need though? Remember those bracelets that Americans were wearing to Europe to indicate yes I’m American, but I don’t support Bush? We need those for when we run into Republicans we haven’t seen in a while to stop the ridicule before it starts. Maybe “I’m too embarassed to hold my head up, for all that’s decent please leave me alone.”

  17. I noticed in Hillary’s speech that she commented that she could not wait until Obama signed in to law a bill to provide universal health care to every single American. This is not Obama’s position on health care.

    She also made a comment about McCain’s support for privatizing social security and that Dems/Obama are not for it. However, Obama has said he will consider privatizing social security – this is, in fact, how he started the generational war back in the first quarter of 2007.

    These two policy positions that Hillary pushed are not his positions. Therefore, I wonder if Obama agreed to accept her policy positions in exchange for her stopping the roll call. Could they have made a deal? Hillary for the people and Obama for himself?

  18. If Obama purged the privatizer advisers and the neocons, he might have a chance with me.

    But he won’t. And he’s a rotten orator to boot.

  19. to respond to the earlier question – Obama is not a real Democrat. How’s that? What you heard tonight included some standard Democratic proposals. Great. What we heard in the primaries was running against and undermining some of the same ones (bringing up rightwing talking points on Social Security, the Harry and Louise ads against universal health care). He will promise whatever helps to get him elected, and then say or do something else whenever it is politically useful. The Obama Party doesn’t stand for anything. I suppose Obama realized it would help him get elected to start swiping some of Hillary’s speeches and ideas, but I see no evidence that if elected he won’t turn right around and go back on this.

  20. I think tonight is seriously the last time I go over to Talk Left. Jeralyn disgusts me now. I stopped going to Taylor Marsh months ago and now I think it is time to take Talk Left off my lists of daily sites. Good night everyone.

  21. “she commented that she could not wait until Obama signed in to law a bill to provide universal health care to every single American.”

    I think that was a shot, not only to the Asshat King but to glorious public servants like Kerry who happily declared they’d torpedo any plan that came with girl cooties attached, America be damned.

  22. We can reach high but we must never forget whose shoulders we are standing upon.

  23. These are some of the major reasons why I cannot support or vote for Obama for POTUS:

    (1). Hillary had to say what she said and she did it with great sincerity…she kept her promise to support whomever was selected as the Nominee. However, I own my vote and I believe that Obama will not carry out the Policies Hillary stands for…(just one example he voted for FISA, she voted against it).

    (2). Obama won the Nomination by means of voter fraud. Here are some websites that meticulously document the fraud, voter intimidation and stealing of votes in the Caucuses. The Caucuses were what allowed Obama to garner enough delegates to win (acts of flagerant voter fraud were committed). Please check out these sites:

    http://vodpod.com/watch/960557-we-will-not-be-silenced

    and

    http://wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/

    and if you want to get real indepth documentation, please checkout Dr. Lynette Long’s site at:

    http://www.lynettelong.com/caucusfraud/

    (3). Tonight in his acceptance speech; Obama said “we are our brothers keepers.” Yet, his actual brother in Kenya lives in a hoval and makes about the equivilent of $10.00 a month. Obama’s own brother lives in abject poverty.

    Obama has totally ignored his brothers plight which shows me that he has no real compassion for others. Therefore, if he has such disregard for the suffering of his brother then how much more will he care for the people of this Country. Words are easy…ACTIONS are what shows the true measure of the man.

    Also, Obama demonstrated the same incredible lack of concern for others when he ignored the plight of the women and children in his Chicago District who were forced to live in Chicago highrise slums that had no heat in the bitter cold Chicago winter.

    This is a man who was raised by a single Mother who had to “accept food stamps for a period of time.” Obama has said over and over that he understands the suffering of poor people because he saw first hand the suffering of his own Mother.

    Then, how in good conscious could he tuck his two daughters in their beds, climb into his warm bed in his 1.9 million dollar mansion and not think about the little children shivering in the night not that far from his own warm and comfortable home.

    Mind you, Obama had assisted his friend and supporter, REZKO in obtaining tens of millions of tax payer dollars to buy and renovate these properties.

    Rezko pocketed the money and Obama knew he was a thief. Rezko was recently convicted for these crimes. Obama can not claim ignorance because it was well documented at the time in the Chicago Press that Rezko was suspected of criminal activity.

    Again, he can NOT claim ignorance, a very intelligent man like Obama who graduated from Harvard Law School knows well who he was associating with and he knew waht Rezko was doing. Obama knew about the people suffering as a result of con-man Rezko having access to the highest levels of local and State government. Obama helped Rezko make and solidify those relationships.

    Rezko was a means to an end for Obama; Obama needed Rezko’s money and political contacts and Rezko needed access and influence through Obama.

    Obama had no concern for those single-mothers and children that he was to represent and care for…instead Obama allowed these most vulnerable of his constituients to suffer at the hands of a con-man and theif. Obama (in my mind) is just as (if not even more) responsible for this great travesty.

    (4). In my opinion, Obama does not have the experience to be POTUS. Our Country is facing very challenging times. I don’t need to list the issues we are facing, we know them all to well.

    Obama graduated from Ivy League Schools, he is obviously very intelligent. However, that alone does not qualify him to be POTUS.

    Obama was a Community Organizer, he worked part-time for a top Chicago law firm, he was head of the Law Review at Harvard, he wrote two “best selling” books, he served in his Sate Senate (without great accomplishments-in my opinion) and he has two years as a US Senator. Obama worked as a part-time Law Instructor for Chicago University. Obama gave a number of very good speeches. A few weeks ago he traveled abroad to Iraq and other Countries to learn about foreign affairs. Please excuse, if there are some things I missed in Obama’s list of qualifications. I tried to touch on the most important ones.

    This is not to say that Obama does not have some impressive accomplishments. He certainly does. I could see Obama as Dean or Provost of a Law School not President of the US. I believe he is over-reaching.
    Obama himself said in an Interview (I believe) upon entering the US Senate that he would not run for POTUS because he “was not [yet] qualified.” I agree with him.

    These are some of the reasons I have reached my conclusions. The DNC has made Obama the choice for the Democrat Party for POTUS and I do not concur.
    I will not cast my vote for Obama.

  24. Since this is an open thread I’d like to share a laugh with everyone.

    Kristin Chenoweth sings about Cr*stal Met*…

    Be sure to go to the bathroom first.

  25. Is Kristin still with Aaron Sorkin?

  26. Seriously – I don’t know.

  27. lisa – thanks. I was just on the phone with a friend who told me I had to watch this clip and where to find it. I walked over to the computer to look for it but first checked out new posts at RD and wow – you found it for me.

    What a hoot. Kristin makes me laugh even before she opens her mouth.

  28. (Sorry lisadawn82, I didn’t expect you to know, just thought maybe someone might–not that I’m saying I don’t expect you to know things 😉

  29. Seriously – funny you should mention Aaron. I posted the following near the end of an earlier thread.

    From tonight’s speech –

    “Its not that John McCain doesn’t care, its that he doesn’t get it.”

    If I remember correctly the movie An American President – “It isn’t that he doesn’t get it – its that he just can sell it.”

    Is Aaron Sorkin writing Obama’s speeches? Or is Obama just a word thief?

  30. Felizarte, my uniform answer — as I suspect is the answer of most of this nation — is simple. In 2004, I was a one-issue voter. In 2008, I am again a one-issue voter. That issue: George W. Bush has systematically undercut the economy, the sovereignty of other countries, our diplomatic status on the world’s stage, our rights as citizens under the U.S. Constitution, the honor and sacrifice of our servicemen and servicewomen, and the very fabric of this nation. He did this in order to promote his own nepotism and cronyism amongst his military-industrial backers such as Blackwater, Haliburton, Big Oil, etc.

    As for McCain, since his ’08 candidacy was announced, he has gone out of his way to align himself with these NeoCon mistakes, repeatedly praising the direction of the USA as a whole. Yet the whole time he praised the status quo, out of the other side of his mouth (sometimes in the same breath) McCain pledged “change.” In fact, for 26 years he’s voted mostly for the status quo. He’s had 26 years to make the very same changes he now pledges to make. Those are dissociative premises. He can’t be for both. Thus, I can not and will not allow my country to be voiced by a Republican — even a Republican whom was once praised for his “maverick” status — for yet another four years.

    To all PUMAs, NoWeWon’t-ers, and JustSayNoDealers: if you truly believe yourselves to be more righteous than the majority of your current/former party, then indeed you must act. I wouldn’t think to stop you. I wouldn’t think to even ask. Action for the sake of justice is a core premise of our liberalism. But such righteousness needs righteous evidence, does it not? How can you claim to have such righteous, foolproof evidence supporting your cause when you can’t even crystallize your cause for a curious fellow traveler?

    In other words: I would have cheerfully, proudly, and unreservedly voted for Sen. Clinton, making these same arguments to anyone who claimed a righteous case for Sen. Obama’s nomination despite the DNC’s rejection. I fear another four years of NeoCon control that much. What are your reasons?

  31. Yeah, and Obama is even supposedly using “Obama for America.”

    Not to mention, Axlerod supposed consulted on The West Wing and the insufferably arrogant character matt Santos (the guy who talked all time and never said anything substantive and treated everyone like lesser beings, even the President) was apparently based on O, although Aaron was gone by then.

  32. Of course, we know already that Obama is a word thief, maybe that’s why he and Biden get along so well.

  33. The_SCSIBug, shouldn’t you be off gloating somewhere else? Why are you here? We owe you no explanations. We owe you nothing.

  34. Palmino, those are fighting words to anyone with such a prodigious sense of entitlement. Where’s the tribunal again? I want to make sure to go before them and make sure my vote’s satisfactorily justified long before election day just to be safe.

  35. I seem to be stuck in Moderation, since other posts came after my earlier….???

    Any Problem??

  36. Go through, look for anything that might be triggering the spam filter and cut out a letter from them. Words like rac^ist will throw you in for sure.

  37. The_SCSIBug,

    I gave my reasons….but they have been in moderation since 2:44….now 3:20…
    hopefully will be out of moderation soon.
    Thanks:-)

  38. Thanks Seriously…will check.

  39. CarlyinNJ, I think the mods are probably in bed. It’s okay though, he’s a big boy, he’s capable of going back through the archives reading the other 654 trillion responses to his question, as cute as the eternal “I am here and I demand you justify yourselves to my satisfaction as is my right as a condescending jackass!” always is.

  40. The_SCSIBug, on August 29th, 2008 at 3:05 am

    Look, I think people would be more open to voting Barry, if they thought there was a chance in hell
    of him DOING any of the Hillary stuff he said tonight.
    Just like the ’06 congress was going to do something right? . But the old Dem bait and switch number isn’t working anymore . Their trick of caving to the GOP , but telling us we HAVEV to support them for the next time, when they will fight…but oops! that next tim never comes. We figured it out. It’s a scam . And on foreign policy I don’t see much difference between Barry and MCain, ( besides the utter corruption of the DNC and Dem elites.) …Zbigniew Brzezinski, Sam Nunn and now Joe Biden are Barry’s co pilots and you know, Zig can’t wait to take on Russia! I don’t see Barry’s profile in mush standing up to any of them. Wake up dear, Barry would not be there if he was not as much , if not more, of a imperialist tool than JM.

  41. Seriously:

    LOL…that’s okay..the mods need rest…Bless Them!!!

    Thanks again….I’m going off to cut some ZZZZ’ss too.

    PUMAs RULE!!!
    NoBAMAin08

  42. Night Carly.

    O Lord, can you please send us a better class of troll? Sense of humor is not optional, Lord. Why dost thou afflict us?

  43. Hey Bug – won’t your friends play with you any more? Frankly, I don’t blame them. You are such a bore.

  44. “All sarcasm aside, I suspect you’re actually accusing Obama of being politically too far left. Am I correct?”

    All right Lord, I apologize. That one was funny. Please don’t smite me.

  45. I just got a call from Obama HQ asking that I stop addressing him as he’s too tired to deal with me right now. If I want though he’ll send Ashcroft over with his Holy Can of Crisco.

  46. “If your movement is comprised of self-proclaimed Democrats…”

    The founder of this site used to blog on Daily Kos as “Goldberry”; last I checked, her diaries were still there. Why do so many opponents of this site question the bona fides of its founder?

    It is obvious that most posters here are real Democrats, because of their stance on issues, their dislike of the Bush policies, and their anguish at casting even a protest vote for a Republican.

    A few of us are non-Democrats, and we identify ourselves precisely because it is unethical to pretend to be something that we are not.

    I would like to know why so many Obama supporters make the equally unethical claim that angry and disillusioned Democrats, Democrats who believe that their vote was stolen by their own party… are Republicans.

  47. SICBug

    I believe the posters on the board are referring to previous instances of Plagiarism on both Biden and Obamas part where entire speeches were lifted from other candidates. In Obama’s case I know of two speeches lifted verbatim from Deval Patrick.

    In tonights speech he took many phrases from Hillarys past speeches. But Deval’s he gave word for word during the primary.

    In Biden’s case, he was caught on tape discussing with his aides whether he would get caught plagairizing someone elses speech. I think that is why he had to drop out of the first presidential race he ran in. 1988 I think.

    I am voting for McCain instead of Obama because I believe he is a liar. He says one thing, and does another. Or if you like, he does not have the experience to get much done. Apparently, Barack’s ability to implement change includes forcing people to give up their rights and unilaterally changing any rules that he doesn’t like so he can get his way. Sounds like Bush doesn’t it?

    I seriously believe that Obama would be much the same as Bush, and that all Democrats will be feeling as sad as the republican moderates 4 years from now. I don’t think Obama will have a second term if he wins.

  48. “I would like to know why so many Obama supporters make the equally unethical claim that angry and disillusioned Democrats, Democrats who believe that their vote was stolen by their own party… are Republicans.”

    Supressed guilt over running around PA and other states trying to find Democrats-for-a-Day, one day only, one day only, to game the primary, despite the potentially catostrophic consequences of having a nominee who has limited appeal to his own party’s voters and is being propped up by votes he has no chance of garnering in the fall?

    I took a shot. 🙂

  49. SICbug,

    You are welcome to your opinion. I don’t believe the threads are meant to start ideological arguments.

    You are dreaming if you actually think Obama will change anything, or cares for any of the causes you just listed. He got where he is because Pelosi bent a lot of rules for him. Pelosi and he vote pretty much the same. How much change has she brought to Washington? Obama will not tick off Pelosi, so I guess after he suckers all you bots into voting they will just start changing the country into a place where they can invest, and pass legislation that makes them millions. You actually think he cares about you after watching what he did to Hillary?

  50. Beam me up Scotty–no intelligent life on this planet!

  51. I know. Obama just took a flame-thrower to the GOP and these Puma-punks. They are all just wandering around dazed and confused, wondering what happened. They don’t even know what just hit them.

  52. I suppose now it’s our fault, or our “theories” that full length documentaries are being produced with eyewitness testimony of caucus fraud.

    And in the ‘what a great guy’ file: a Democrat who kicks other Democrats off the ballot…

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,0,1843097.story

  53. “Obama just took a flame-thrower to the GOP”

    Lord, I don’t want to get you up again, but that thing about no sense of humor? I retract it. And I know that in your mighty wisdom you CAN even manage to “reach across and bring people together” with a flamethrower. (And if you have an extra, well when TR paid for your extra land, he ran a little short–it might be useful to finally thaw out some of the people who froze to death in the slums that month)

  54. Obama is a liar. I don’t like him.

  55. Obama’s speech was graded a “C”, and nobody can remember anything he said because it wasn’t clear. No clear policies with no clear solutions.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/08/28/sanchez.gop.reax.cnn

    Now you little kids need to go back to the toga party at the frat house, and pop in a girls gone wild video.

  56. “while at the same time everyone here turns a blind eye to all of Clinton’s failings.”

    Irony was pronounced dead at $:25 EST, after a complications caused by the Huge Anthropormorphic Pitcher of Kool-Ade bursting through the wall and beating it to death, then gutting it . In lieu of flowers, please send donations to the “Barack makes every violation of our electoral and Constitutional process seem AWESOME!!!!!! he totally has a d—!!!!!!!!” fund.

  57. jennie, I was really disappointed by the con. I was expecting the Senate in bros before hos t-shirts, kick lines to “dirt off the shoulder,” maybe a gauntlet where we made McCaskell strip down and crawl while people dunked beer on her. There wasn’t even a wet T-shirt contest, and nobody brought out a Playmate dressed as a nurse and said “This is my secretary, I didn’t hire her for the typing.”

    We’re going to have a hard time keeping our new key demographic unless we give them what they want. Epic fail!

  58. Seriously,
    Don’t tempt me about McCaskill. She is a huge disappointment. I am going to volunteer for whoever runs against her in re-election.

    She ran for every office over in Missouri that she could think of, and barely squeaked through in the Senate race. Then she turns around and stabs women in the back with qoutes like,

    “I am sure they will vote for Obama in the privacy of the voting booth” Barf.

  59. *rolls eyes* Refusing to listen? We have listened, we’re just bored now. Unless you live in a capsule that’s buried 10 miles underground, or perhaps have no exposure to any form of media, or maybe don’t know anyone in real life, you’ve heard it all a thousand times before. Sorry to disappoint you, but there have been Obama fans here who posted on a regular basis, but weren’t asses, didn’t make demands on everyone else to accomodate their wishes, etc. Once again, each troll who is too lazy to go back through the archives and see that teh same statements have been made and questions asked (and answered before terminal boredom set it) thinks he’s inventing the wheel. “I have something to say you’ve never ever heard before!” No, you really, really don’t, and being condescending isn’t a good way to express ‘I want to participate in your community,’ either.

    And as far as the lefty blogs thing goes, this is a site for Clinton supporters. That’s the mission. Sites like kos were allegedly about “electing Democrats” and that meant any Democrat, up until the time that they started banning Clinton supporters and troll rating them into oblivion, treating her and her supporters unlike any had ever been treated before. The kos refrain used to be “anyone with a D after his name is all right! Vote the d, anyone who disses a Democrat on principle is evil and disgusting! Every D, and D, don’t think, just vote!” It’s kos’s right to completely do a 360, and there are certainly many other places people can go to express their opinions, no one should be forced to host anyone they don’t care to, but it is hypocritical for a non-specially Obamacentric site.

  60. jennie, I’m not sure even Michelle will vote for Obama in the privacy of the voting booth. 🙂

  61. x7227, I would love to see discussion among all viewpoints; just responded yesterday to a similar comment to a Chuck Baldwin supporter.

    However, these are real Democrats and they are hurt by the way their party treated them. If their opinions and ideology evolve, so be it, but I think they’ll consider it odious if others proselytize to them while they’re in pain.

    I believe that on a given site, one has to make a good faith effort to comply with the site owner’s rules. However, I see nothing wrong with creating other sites to dialogue with JSND people about more fundamental matters of ideology.

  62. Republican Dude: This site is for morons who do not want to open their minds. These folks are not interested in exchanging ideas; they just want a pseudo back-and-forth that reinforces their pre-existing belief system. They may toy with you briefly, but as soon as you seriously challenge their belief-system, they will spit you down the drain like last night’s you-know-what.

  63. johnica, if you truly believe your current/former party stole your vote — your primary or caucus vote, mind you — then there is nothing I can say to dissuade you from this. I can only pursue a mutual understanding by asking for your reasonable evidence of Sen. Obama’s crime and hope you can provide it.

    I did not make this claim, because I am not a Democrat, nor did I vote in a Democratic caucus or primary.

    However, there are allegations of caucus fraud, which I personally consider credible; they have been made by Democratic voters, and they are being documented in such films as We Will Not Be Silenced. and The Audacity of Democracy.

    I appreciate that you accept Riverdaughter’s bona fides, and therefore I did not accuse you in that regard. Certain Obama supporters have attacked her in a manner I consider quite odious, whereas you are engaging on issues.

  64. Oh Barack, I thought we finally taught you what button to push. Can we have Michelle go in the booth with him on Election day? God, if he holds up a ballot marked for Mccain, we’ll look even dumbed than we already do.

    jen? Aren’t you guys supposed to still be pretending that you’re fierce warriors against those evil Republican dudes? You better go back to the flamethrower bit, people might get the wrong idea.

  65. My apologies– I left the italics running…

  66. johninca, am I annoying you? I still have to work on some schoolwork a while yet, but I actually really appreciate your posts (in all sincerity). I don’t want to drive you nuts.

  67. “johninca, am I annoying you?”

    No, why would you ask? I thank you for your kind words.

  68. Well, because you’re posting things that are sincere and touching, and I’m being all snarky and juvenile. 🙂 I can’t help myself, I usually come here in the middle of the night when it’s just me and trollapalooza.

  69. “On the stage of the ‘08 U.S. Presidential election, johnica, what distinguishes a PUMA, a NoWeWon’t-er, or a JustSayNoDealer from either an ordinary Republican voter or generic non-voter?”

    JSND is a coalition of Democrats who reject Obama. Coalitions are not monolithic.

    Some will vote Republican as a protest vote.

    Some will not vote. Some will vote third party. Some could conceivably vote against Obama while voting Democratic downticket.

    This is why it is so odious to me that these people are being called Republicans on certain sites. They’re not following their own party’s marching orders, let alone Republican ones.

  70. “They feel just as attacked as you do, thus they lash out with rhetoric.”

    But why do they feel attacked? We’re not going to their sites and picking fights with them. On kos, just saying “I don’t not feel that Hillary Clinton is the anti-Christ” would get you banned. And Clinton didn’t do anything to Obama! If she accused him of trying to assassinate her, or was happy to allow states to be disenfranchised because it benefitted her, or I don’t know, did the dirt off the shoulder bit, or attacked his wife’s administration while praising Reagan, weird behavior in a primary, then they’d have every right to feel attacked. But as it is, we didn’t do anything to them, and they brought all of this on themselves by encouraging, condoning, and participating in this behavior. I’m one of many peoplke who started out “Anybody But Hillary” and was psuhed to become a diehard supporter thanks to Obama and his supporters’ behavior.

    “should not push out anyone who hasnt read every bit of commentary on this site”

    *sighs* That’s not what I said. It wouldn’t take two minutes to find the answers to his questions, as they are reiterated every single day, many times. And have been answered a million times. It’s really really unlikely that most people are going to respond well when someone comes in at 3 am, and first, trots out the well worn, I’m being censored theme, and then goes into “But such righteousness needs righteous evidence, does it not? How can you claim to have such righteous, foolproof evidence supporting your cause when you can’t even crystallize your cause for a curious fellow traveler?” I suggest that if you think that sort of remark is helpful, you confine it to the internet, because implying that people are idiots who don’t understand why they’re voting the way they are and demanding they justify themselves to you might get you smacked in many cases.

    “If they truly wish to advocate eloquently for Clinton”

    But see, i don’t. I’m not here to advocate for anyone. I’m here to chat with Clinton supporters. Maybe some people are here to advocate, but I don’t think I’m alone in just wanting to chat. There rae plenty of places to go to chat with Obamabots. Fewer to chat with Clinton supporters.

    “they must be able to convert Obama supporters”

    Well, i feel confident in saying that’s really not what a lot of us are here for.

    “In fact that is exactly what you accuse them of in pushing out Clinton supporters on other blogs.”

    *sighs* Refer to what I said before. General Dem websites are a different story.

  71. About Michelle Obama, I’m normally inclined to favor a traditional Christian gallantry pro sexu fragili.

    However, she has actively campaigned for Barack, so I don’t see why she should be immune to counterattack.

    It is also alleged that her salary doubled after Barack was elected. It’s perfectly legitimate to look at Barack’s voting record for any earmarks or potential conflicts of interest.

    I personally believe that using Michelle as the target may prove unnecessary. If Obama loses, it should be due to such issues as BAIPA or Ayers.

  72. Seriously wrote:

    You know what we need though? Remember those bracelets that Americans were wearing to Europe to indicate yes I’m American, but I don’t support Bush? We need those for when we run into Republicans we haven’t seen in a while to stop the ridicule before it starts. Maybe “I’m too embarassed to hold my head up, for all that’s decent please leave me alone.”

    Republicans will NOT ridicule you (cept maybe some trolls. we got those too) We RESPECT you for two reasons:

    1. We are not stupid enough to piss of the demographic that will likely make or break this election. In a country split right down the middle for the past 20 years, 18 million votes means a lot. You won’t heat McCain get up in front of anybody and say ‘get over it’.

    2. You actually made Hillary look good in a lot of Republican eyes. Trust me, that’s no small achievement. There are a number of us who, if given the chance, would follow Ann Coulter’s advice and vote for Hillary over McCain.

    Don’t be humiliated! Be proud that you stood up for yourself! I quote Jefferson: Storms should be as common in the political world as they are in the natural world.

    Go Hurricane PUMA!

  73. You want to hear a funny story? You know, the first time I came to this site some 6 months ago or so there was almost no one here–no one posting. I was doing research on the word “confluence” in regards to the financial industry and found this site by mistake.

    So I read the blog of some “Riverdaughter” trashing Obama over–get this!–his lack of support for the Democratic party! I respectfully posted that Obama was a team player, blah, blah, blah, and Riverdaughter replied that she could never support Obama unless he stated clearly his support for the Democratic party even in the event that he lost the nomination! Yes, she was condemning him for lack of loyalty to the party! O what great irony that this Riverdaughter would several months later be one of the founding members of an organization intent on destroying the party!

    The only thing these folks have in common is their hatred of Obama. He could do or say anything and it would not matter–they hate him simply for who he IS. Is it his race, that he beat their Darling, that he is male? Who knows? I’m sure their is a complex social-psychological recipe for their irrational hatred that is unique to each one of them, but unless you are a mental health professional it is probably not worth your time to try and figure them out. But the site is great amusement if you have time to waste!

  74. “I dont feel as if the attacks on Michelle Obama have really any place in a political campaign.”

    I don’t have a problem with her in general, however when she crosses the line and says things like “if she can’t control her own house, how can she run the White House,” that is absolutely fair game.

  75. “Don’t be humiliated! Be proud that you stood up for yourself!”

    How can I not be humiliated? People know we’re Democrats, our party just nominated Obama, we’re never going to hear the end of this. Ugh,

  76. “As for the Daily Kos itself, let’s not begin the Billy O’Reilly-like parroting of “everything the commentator community does is completely attributable to the site” accusations”

    Are you for real? Yes. Let’s elect Democrats, any Democrats, shut up and pull the level for Casey etc. was never part of the kos mission statement. I don’t want anyone to get the impression that the expressed opinions of kos, his front pagers, and apprximately 80% of everyone who ever posted there at one time or another can be taken as a reflection of kos canon.

    Do I have the power to cut off your mike, then?

  77. “The only thing these folks have in common is their hatred of Obama. He could do or say anything and it would not matter–they hate him simply for who he IS…”

    I started out liking him– completely disagreed with his ideology but thought he was running a brilliant insurgency tactically.

    I’m troubled by a Democrat throwing other Democrats off the ballot, as well as credible reports of caucus fraud. On substantive matters, he has a lot of explaining to do about BAIPA…

  78. Jenny wrote:

    The only thing these folks have in common is their hatred of Obama. He could do or say anything and it would not matter–they hate him simply for who he IS. Is it his race, that he beat their Darling, that he is male? Who knows? I’m sure their is a complex social-psychological recipe for their irrational hatred that is unique to each one of them, but unless you are a mental health professional it is probably not worth your time to try and figure them out.

    Allow me to help you figure this out. It’s quite easy really. When 18 million voters say they’re upset, then the only crazy people are fools like you who keep attacking them, thereby guaranteeing the eventual failure of your candidate. I wasn’t able to go to the convention (I wouldve been kicked out anyway Im a repub) but if I had, do you think I would have gone up to the PUMAs and said “You’re making your party lose! HAR HAR! Stupid women!” Hell no, I wouldn’t! I would wait on them hand and foot and thank GOD that McCain isn’t a hard core anti-abortionist because this guarantees a republican win.

    Many of you might be mistrustful of the praises of a republican. You might think them insincere. But even if that were true, at least we have enough brains to know when to fake sincerity. Holy Lord Obama and his Obots haven’t even got that many smarts.

    Obama will lose, and it isnt racism or sexism that will do him in, it will be his sheer mindless arrogance that does it.

  79. I was asleep when the bestest speech ever happened. which means, i got up early and read all your comments on it. From here, PUMApac and a few other places. If you want to know, they are posted here:
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/i-am-living-in-mortal-fear-that-this-speech-will-endpuma-toga-party/

  80. Wow, this site is really opening up!

    There used to be just bitter old women & queers,

    And now we got some Hi-Dee-Ho Republicans too!

  81. Oh my, the site administrator has some heavy duty house cleaning to do. Will return later when the stench has dissipated. Nothing more disgusting than the stench of troll in the morning.

    Gonna take a 50 gallon drum of Febreze.

  82. “If kos has availed themselves of the belief that their posts and message shall be in favor of Obama, then I think their posters and admins would feel as if you were”

    Maybe, but you can’t see why that is different? That was a Democratic partisan site, and the Clinton supporters there had been posting there for years. All of a sudden, they’re evil and subject to abuse because they support who, The Forbidden Democrat? I think that would be hard to expect. Uh, impossible? And in that case, kos should have changed his mission statement, because other Democrats would then be liable to wander in, not knowing they were supporting TFD, think they were 100% following the purpose and rules, and then be subject to attack (and by attack, I mean things like threats of having their identities revelaed to their employers, etc.) I already said that OBVIOUSLY kos has every right to declare himself Obamaland and ban anyone he wants, and of course anyone he bans can just get his or her own site, but considering the purpose and history it’s a little hypocritical however you slice it,

    “Constantly referring to ‘Obamabots’ or Ayers is not exactly a compliment,”

    *shrugs* And nobody has any moral obligation to compliment him if they don’t want to. If it offends them, they don’t have to visit places where that’s accepted. I sure as hell wouldn’t troll any Obama sites, and if i went there to try and start a dialogue, I would avoid saying things to offend them unnecessarily, yes. There is obviously a different dynamic when you approach someone as a stranger on their turf. But it’s not really attack when you’re not, um, taking it to them. There are places to go for debate, and there are also some places where people who are likeminded just want to get away from the constant harrangue for a while and chill with some like minded people.

    “Clinton and Obama both ran media campaigns highlighting the perceived weaknesses of the other.”

    Right, and that’s not an unacceptable attack. That’s politics. Saying ‘my healthcare plan is better’ or ‘you can trust me more on foreign policy’ or ‘don’t misrepresent my policy’ is one thing. Impyling that your opponent is staying in the race waiting for you to be assassinated is kind of crossing the line a little bit. As is giving her the finger, as is brushing her off his shoulder, and so on.

    And I’m not just referring to the caucuses, I’m referring to the fact that Obama wanted to deny MI and FL representation. and please spare me arguments about how that was justified. Even if you accept that the first vote was insufficient, everyone agreed to allow revotes. Obama would not allow them to go forward. There is no possible way anyone can condone that.

    “people have formed a belief and do not wish to have that shaken even the slightest bit.”

    Or, it could be that people don’t readily take orders from anyone who condescends to them. Once again, there is a way to approach people if you want to get a good response and a way not to, it ain’t rocket science.

    “but it wasnt until a friend sat down and talked with me about the realities of gun ownership”

    And don’t you think the way he approached you and when had a lot to do with how you responded?

    “I feel fairly confident many on this site would like to go beyond just talking about Hillary, the purpose of this site is not to just talk”

    *shrugs* I don’t know, it’s not my site. That may be true, and if the site owner has a problem with anything I said or did, I apologize (and I won’t whine if I get banned, it’s 100% up to them who stays or goes and I still like them). They’re entitled to set their own perimeters and what you or I think we or anyone else is doing here shouldn’t get in the way of that mission. It’s their site. Clinton is not running right now, and I have seen many people say they’re not here to convert Obots, which is why I feel confident in saying I’m not alone there. It’s up to them to persuade people to vote for them, we’re kind of out of it at the moment.

  83. “So you’re saying O’Reilly’s right?”

    Yes. You caught me.

    I AM BILL O’REILLY!

    I AM NOT SPARTACUS! PLEASE DO NOT START RUMORS!

  84. How much do I love my 90 year old lifelong Dem grandfather right now? Glad you asked. He just got up and put on the news, and as I curse my lot in life having to listen again at high volume to accomodate, hearing impairment, he yelled, “I can’t listen to him one more day!” and turned off the TV. lol

  85. O crap attack of the O-bots listen here slow starters-

    we PUMA’s are Playing this like a basket ball game and we are open to anyone who does not support Obambi for pressident here are the choices for true PUMA’s….

    1) stay home and dont vote-a 1 point free throw keeps vote out of Obama’s tally

    2) vote 3rd party the standard lay up -2 point shot Obama has to get 2 votes to over come it

    3) vote McCain the boo-Rah 3 point shot-2 votes to beat and a message sent to theDeaNC!

    thats how you win games and since Hillary is out this has become our serious game-

    the only choice that does not exsist for a PUMA is to vot Obambi! so its tiime for fuzzy to have his morning catharsis…get ready bots here it comes…

    F*CK YOU! AND YOU LITTLE INSIGNIFICANT CANDIDATE TOO!

    I feel better already!

    morning and kisses

    fuzzybeargville

  86. Yay, our first misogynistic homophobic remark of the day! I was feeling so unhopey and unchangey up until then.

  87. x7227- that was meant for you to the KO’s is an Obambi site fully in support of this high jacking.

    I judge you and obamabi by the friends you keep-I want to discource with you we are not drinking the koolaid here!

    fuzzybeargville

  88. I get the benefit of not deleting these TROLL comments if it costs Obama $$$. But seriously, I don’t think its worth it. They have taken over this thread and not in a good way.

  89. Troll guy, sorry your name is long, if kos has schizophrenia, shouldn’t he put up a disclaimer that he can’t be held responsible for his own statements and attitudes? It’s really not fair for the rest of us to have to guess which of his very own remarks represent kos and which his alter ego Chucky. or is this teh Obama rules where everything he does is always someone else’s fault? That applies retroactively to all his shills as well?

  90. I refer to it as the orange koz and the daily cheater-both the same they suck and they suppress dissent-

    koolaid-sweet on tounge bitter in belly!-enjoy the November 4th a$$ stomping!

    fuzzybeargville

  91. Hey seriously,

    Just wanted to let you know youre quite the poster and have earned a lot of respect on this end…There may be some things I’m not convinced of, but you read what I had to say, thought about it, and responded in a clear and concise way…and for that i honestly thank you…I’m off for the night (day) and if i get banned as well so be it…but at least for the last couple hours we had a good conversation…hopefully more to follow!

    Peace!
    -X

  92. Thank you, X. Peace.

  93. See it was posters like fuzzybeargville that I was hoping to avoid…No interest in talking about anything, just label them trolls and GTFO…and btw fuzzy, if you read my posts at all, you would know im an R (who is really a libertarian) but is undecided about who to vote for and just came here to get the clinton perspective on all this…but that doesnt interest you at all…just GTFO…guess I’m getting out at the right time…

  94. If Jack Kennedy had run against a woman, I can assure you he would not have played the equivalent of “99 Problems and A Bitch Is Not One Of Them” at a victory rally.

    He wouldn’t have been so politically unsavvy.

    You won-get over it.

    We’re moving on.

  95. How about Gov Palin as VP? She is a pro-life feminist like Susan B Anthony. They said she is going to be in Dayton, OH today(my state).

  96. Yes Palin would be a great choice.

  97. Picking up the old orange ribbon sitting on my window ledge for 8 years
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/the-orange-ribbon/

  98. to qoute noxema jackson-x7227-your respect is neither required nor disired!

    My greatest joy will be the site administrator deleting your comments or roplacing them I am sure they will start with something like….”my tiny nipples went to France…”

    fuzzybeargville

  99. Pro-Obama troll posters = Sad Schizophrenics

    Perhaps that is their commonality with both the Obamas.

    These posts they have left on here are stunningly laughable., yet still arouse a bit of pathos regarding their naivete’.

    They know they are going to lose, and they know they are not going to win any converts to mitigate their misery.

  100. Taylor Marsh must be in her glory. She has a diary posted over at Huff Po. What a pandering shill!

  101. Look x7227 we know all the tricks and if R is wanting to get our prospective the just lurk and get a feel for the place posting “questions in the format of “do you beat your wife often…” We assume they are Obat questions .

    Funny an Obat like you shows up at the same time late at night when no one is around and play off one another…not coinsidence…not buyinhg it! You Obats are like Mormons going out 2 by 2 on your nifty schwinn bikes and pressed polyester pants,white shirt and black tie.

    I know what you are trying to get converts to Obamaism not buying it!

    Fuzzyveargville

  102. They come in here uninvited, shout of the stupidest lines attributable, some so vile they should never see the light of day, and then scream bloody murder if asked to leave. And uninvited guest is just that.

  103. Was their some significance to choosing orange for voting rights, EOF?

  104. Ack there, sorry, I’m so tired I’m starting to see double. lol

  105. Voter intimidation and vote fraud are the reasons I will not vote for Obama. The Texas caucus alone (which I participated in) was full of both and no one in the party or the media has stepped up and said anything about it.

    When tactics like that are allowed to go unchecked, we all lose. It doesn’t matter how you vote….Democrat, Republican, or Independent….when that vote ceases to count, we’re all screwed.

    PUMAs have been the only ones brave enough to stand up and say wait a minute, this isn’t right. I guess some of the Obama supporters don’t mind because the end justifies the means for them now. But when it’s THEIR vote that gets tossed in the trash, I wonder who will stand up for them? Based on the wonderful people here at The Confluence, I feel confident in saying that they would stand up.

  106. comment in moderation please release

  107. “But when it’s THEIR vote that gets tossed in the trash, I wonder who will stand up for them? Based on the wonderful people here at The Confluence, I feel confident in saying that they would stand up.” Cindy

    Wonderful sentiments. We will surely have that opportunity. the Republicans will not go quietly. And the new Dems are “ready to rumble” IMO.

  108. The_SCSIBug, I only heard sound bites of last night’s speech. They were pretty good. But there is little evidence of what Obama will actually do. It’s a risk I’m not inclined to take. McCain is too risky for me as well. Whoever is elected, I hope he will exceed my expectations or that the congress will act in the interest of the majority of the people – not just Bush’s “have mores.”

  109. Pat,

    Ironically , Taylor Marsh has always given me that same queasy, distrustful feeling that Obama evokes.

    I never felt she was anything other than vapid and shallow, even when she professed to be a Clinton loyalist. I never had any desire to post on her site.

    I always felt, and still feel, she is self-serving, and only intersted in Taylor Marsh. Which in essence makes her a perfect fit for Obama. All about Me.

  110. I want to apologize to all of trolldom for what I said erlier about how they all come in here acting like they’re invented the wheel.

    In fact, I don’t know what I would do without them. John F. Kennedy was 43 when he became our youngest President? If I weren’t raised in a hollow tree with nothing but acorns and paste to eat, perhaps I would know such well hidden facts. But only if I were part of the most elite .0001% that manages to master them.

    Is there some kind of online degree program taught by Obots, featuring classes like “up next, we reveal teh color of teh sky” and “the uses of velcro”?

  111. Just A Thought, In Taylor’s heyday, I thought the site was great. Tons of great commenters. I believed that Taylor saw Clinton as the best candidate (and I still do). Some things that she advocated and said bothered me – selective calls of sexism. It was OK for her to be sexist, she was not “politically correct” (said proudly). However, it wasn’t OK for the media to be sexist in regard to Clinton. And it’s never OK to be racist (which I ,of course, agree with).

    Now she’s scrambling for a viable position in the world of Democrats. And she’s banned and trashed some great people. Not to mention supporting some vile comments on her site.

    Just occasionally there are some good discussions on her site now. Some brave not for Obama still post there.

    I do feel better visiting this site. Not just because of the illuminating and good humored posters, but the tone is much more healthful. Thank you RD and all.

  112. Bottom line: What this overhyped and scripted convention did succeed in illustrating was the wrong candidate has been “selected” in the end to carry the mantle of the Democrats.

    We can muse from now to November comparing oratorical notes and assign grade ratings as to who scored better than whom, but the tipping point rests with the speech that contains the substance to challenge and lay out the respective vision of why he/she stands before you.

    What I heard was more platitudes and rhetoric. This man simply has no solid record of achievement to lay before us as examples of why we should cast our lot with him as a leader. The entire 4 days was spent extolling what a great guy he is with few references of what he has done in the past to bolster those views. A man who has spent less than 300 days in the Senate, whose career in the IL state legislature which only meets 55 days a year and whose few bills of passage were work attributable to other sources, and community organizer with suspect associates is not someone who record stands out.

    The path to his nomination is strewn with doubtful tactics in vote counting. Accusations of gamed caucuses along with voter intimidation are resonating. The DNC has acted without regard for its constituency and the date of this convention, long in the making, just happens to coincide with a famous speech made by Dr. King. Coincidence?

    There are too many myths created to make this candidate palatable and too many uncertainties to propel him into the Oval Office. As well as words, experience counts. And actions do speak louder. So far, his actions are questionable so pardon me if I don’t climb onboard. He has not earned my trust or my vote.

  113. I won’t vote for Obama because he won as the result of a rigged election.

    I will not vote for anyone or anything who overturns certified elections. There is no issue to me that is more important than honest, legitimate elections.

    It’s not the same reason others will give. As it turns out, there are so many valid reasons why people reject Obama:

    1. Obama has no experience. JFK had done far more by the time he became nominated. Obama has done nothing of note except write autobiographical books.

    2. Obama has serious character flaws.

    3. Obama is not credible. He says one thing, then says another.

    4. Obama is racially divisive. Deliberately.

    5. Obama and his lapdogs use unacceptably polarizing and destructive attack methods to bubble himself from criticism. We don’t want another Bush.

    6. Obama only cares about Obama.

    7. Obama does not love his country and has shown no sign that he wants to serve it. He just wants it to serve him.

    Need I go on?

  114. How can anyone DOUBT that Obama is going to do all that great stuff he just promised in that fabulous “what she said” speech?

    Didn’t he valiantly defend our constitutional rights to privacy on the FISA vote just like he promised? That brave filibuster he did?

    /snark

  115. Why are people writing “teh” for “the” more and more. The first few timew i thought it was a typo. Then thought dyslexia. At this point, I am clearly on the (teh?) outside of a trend with or without a meaning.

  116. Pat Johnson and J, you say it so well. Glad I’m on your team!

  117. Just heard a strong rumor on Fox News that McCain is going to name a woman as his VP pick — Sara Palin, the Governor of Alaska. I don’t know anything about her, but if its true, this shows that McCain takes us seriously and is definitely trying to court us.

    We need to keep the pressure on. We can force McCain to remain moderate if he wants our support. We are the key to this election and we hold the power — all the official PUMAs and all the PUMAs at heart who feel the same way we do about Hillary and Obama.

    Obama has been a fool to dismiss us!!!

  118. I watched the last 20 minutes and honestly did doze of at least 3 times.

    I am so ashamed of what people around the world must be thinking.

  119. Not Pawlenty.

    My bet is Romney. I can live with him. That has to scare the Beejesssuuusss out of the idiot Democrats.

    PUMA HAKA 👿

  120. Fox is also reporting that Romney and Palenty are confirmed to NOT be the VP pick. I’m getting a little excited about him picking a woman. We need to find out more about her.

  121. I can live without a Lieberman on the ticket. That would assure my not having to vote at all come November under any circumstances.

  122. If he chooses a woman, it would be difficult for Hillary if she decides to run in 2012 because she has to compete against her

  123. Looks more and more like Gov Palin as the VP pick. She helped clean up political corruption in Alaska, something Obama didn’t try doing to the Chicago political machine. Maybe she will be the first woman Vice President of the US to go to a year of firsts.

  124. I heard she was a fighter! I hope this is true!!!!! If Hillary runs in 2012, she will be fine….but the 18M cracks may be getting a little deeper!!

  125. I don’t think having a woman VP will affect Hillary’s 2012 chances that much. She would be running against McCain’s first term, not the vice-president who couldn’t run until 2016.

  126. I saw a short news special on, I think, CNN when McCain first became the GOP candidate, because it was rumored then that he was considering her. She seemed great—bright, intelligent, accomplished.

  127. It still might be Palin. And where’s Hillary? Anywhere near Ohio?

  128. “It’s my party and I suspect it was once your party; to be praised when it’s right and to be corrected when it’s wrong, like our nation. It’s not just to be thrown away with the rest of this war-torn election out of…” The_SCSIBug

    I agree that the Party needs to be corrected when it’s wrong. I’m not staying with the party during that process. I’m becoming an Independent. I will let the Party know what it needs to do to get me back – correct those primary wrongs and put democracy back into the Party as a basic principle. I stayed with the Party longer than many. I have waited to observe this Convention. More wrongs. Bye, bye.

  129. I think McCain is screwing with the Media.

  130. I would love for McCain to pick Palin…but…if McCain serves only one term, and Palin runs in ’12, Hillary’s chances go way down. Part of Hillary’s strength was her support from Republican women.

    Those Republicans are always thinking two or three elections ahead.

  131. “Maybe she will be the first woman Vice President of the US to go to a year of firsts.” rapp

    Love the irony of that. The Dems forcing the Republicans to be inclusive to be competitive. However, we can get it done!!!

  132. Somebody must at one time have written a book entitled: “The Unwanted Guest”. This book should contain passages pointing out that when trespassing one does not “demand answers” from others the purpose of the sign. Insisting on engaging in unconstructive dialogue for the purpose of slamming the guest who does not share your point of view is outside the bounds of posting etiquette. Insisting on imposing your point of view on people who have no wish to carry theirs beyond this site is an intrusion. We know why we are here and have no wish to explain or defend our own.

    Getting all “huffy” over being dismissed is ridiculous. You were never invited in the first place.

  133. McCain’s vice president will decide to run in 2012

  134. New thread.

  135. I’m a Reagan or Clinton democrat. I am completely against Obama. I don’t like his associates, position on guns, open ballots for union votes.

  136. One of the things that disgusts me is the constant comparison the Obama propaganda machine makes with him and historical figures (MLK, JFK, RFK). Shouldn’t we be judging him on his own merits? Which is another thing that disgusts me: All the people who fall for this self-serving sales pitch.

  137. I was just checking out dailykos to see if they were talking about Palin as McCain’s vice president. They are. They are frantically trying to get their people to go to Wikipedia and put negative things in her bio. They are scum over there.

    One low-life said that she would make a terrible VP pick because she has a down’s syndrome 4 month old baby. What disgusting fanatics are over at kos. They are willing to say anything to get their god elected. I don’t know anything about Sara Palin but what the heck does having a child with a disability have to do with anything?

  138. KarolinaNYC, I’m not sure but I think because teh instead of the is such a frequent and easy to do typo, people just adopted it.

  139. Downticket, how could McCain’s vice president decide to run for president in 2012? She would need to run against a sitting president. That doesn’t make sense. I don’t see her as any threat to Hillary running in 2012.

  140. Copy the kos page and store it for the national media.

  141. I’m glad I got up early enough to read the (mostly) civil overnight discourse before any deletions take place.

    BTW, SCSIBug–since you corrected Seriously on the 360/180 thing, I’ll return the favor and point out that President Clinton is from Arkansas, not Alabama.

  142. Carol, I don’t know how to copy the kos page to store it. Here is the link:

    http://dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/74426/5387/371/578296

    This is where the kos dairy people are talking about flooding Wikipedia with negative things about Palin and talking about her down’s syndrome child.

    “I’m sure America is ready to have the person a heartbeat away from the presidency have a 4 month old Downs syndrome infant. There are also other young kids. And, no I don’t think mothers shouldn’t be veeps but c’mon anybody who knows about developmentally disabled kids knows the amount of early intervention needed.”

  143. OhVoter, on August 29th, 2008 at 8:47 am

    McCain is a one term president.

  144. Obama did give a great speech because it was all Hillary. We all know that. Was there negotiations? ..I bet there was. In other words, the Clinton had the power to really make a mess. In exchange for not making a mess…push Hillary’s platform.

    Obama was indeed the “democrat” for the day. Away from the teleprompter it will be Obama who has to defend this. He has boxed himself into being a Hillary surrogate whether he likes it or not. Bill and Hillary Clinton set the stage for what this election is going to be about.

    However, when the emotions of the speech settle, his record does not match Hillary’s. He has nothing but “air”.
    When the teleprompter and the stage is removed, his weakness will again re-emerge.

    It is going to be Obama now and no one else can help him. John McCain will not have the debate constraints of Hillary Clinton. Obama’s performance at Saddleback was dismal.

  145. Trolls,

    Obama built his record as an Illlinois lawmaker in one year. How? Emil Jones (the man who was recently in the news calling a Hillary supporter an “Uncle Tom”) decided to “make” Obama.

    As Senate Majority Leader, Jones handed over the high profiles bills to Obama. In other words, Obama’s record is built on other people’s hard work. For example, that racial profiling bill his supporters always crow about, well, Rickey Hendon was the original sponsor.

    The only thing your candidate is good at is stealing, and taking credit for other people’s work. That’s why he’s always comparing himself to American icons, because on his own he’s got nothing. The man is a complete and total sham.

    That’s the Obama record: faking and taking.

  146. What a minute. Don’t the Obamas have young children? Or is having young children a job exclusion for women only?

  147. “A redneck governor from Alabama”

    You expect us to think this was just a typo?

  148. Funny how they never want to talk about voter intimidation or vote fraud.

    Unless they think all these people are lying.

    http://wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/video/index.htm

  149. The_SCSIBug: Let me clarify some of your confusion regarding “open thread”. It is a thread for comments made by like minded commentators and not an open door for those who demand answers, seek to ridicule, insult and demean those who choose to call this place “home”.

    We like it tidy. We like it congenial. We appreciate civility but we dislike “demands”. There are hosts of previous diaries dating back to February available on this blog. It explains who we are and why we gather. Most of your questions border on demands of explaining our positions. Go read the purpose of this blog along with its attendant commentaries and perhaps you will have found your answers.

  150. Site administrator we still have the chattering of The_SCSIBug, to annoy us.

    When will these people realize that we do not WANT to have conversation with them. Those who choose to engage with them only encourage them to stick around. Half the damn thread is from this one person answering and arguing with regular Confluecians.

    If you want someone to argue with start your own damn blog.

  151. The_SCSIBug: Gosh, you are just as full of question as you seem to be so full of yourself.

  152. I think what is driving the DNC particularly crazy is Barry was crafted with us in mind…and it’s not working . What I mean is the concern troll approach indicates to me that Barry was created in part for those the DNC felt could be manipulated by such beings as concern trolls …the hot button issues. The first thing was Roe vs Wade. …like Barry gave a crap about that. Such old wands used to keep us in line aren’t working and it’s driving them crazy. They are so use to just trotting out a few things and we snap to. They forgot they have a track record of defending nothing…a track record of ever faster caving . If they had very gotten the S chip though or even barked at Bush at least half as much as they bark to their own voter base, there would be fewer PUMA . But there is NOTHING to hang a hope on that they would do anything they say they will ….and every indication they will continue to cave and enable the power elite . So Nancy, my vote is off the table.

  153. SC SIBug: Yes. I do.

  154. Has the Mac just sent the Hack and the Yack back to the bottom of the pack?

  155. Annetoo, on August 29th, 2008 at 9:28 am Said:
    “They forgot they have a track record of defending nothing…a track record of ever faster caving . If they had very gotten the S chip though or even barked at Bush at least half as much as they bark to their own voter base, there would be fewer PUMA .”

    I was excited when Pelosi became Speaker of the House because she was the first woman. But that vanished as soon as the words “Impeachment is off the table” fell from her lips. This last Congress has proved to be less than useless.

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