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Thursday: Democrats in Denver Elect President McCain!

In a show of shmoonity, Democratic delegates from across the country abandoned their voters and threw their support behind Barack Obama.  Arkansas, which Hillary Clinton won by some 70%, turned simple math on its head while New Jersey showed why it is called the densest state in the union when its Governor, who doesn’t know how to use a seat belt, handed over all of its delegates to Barack Obama.  Tony Soprano was not required to break any knees.  There was no overt coercion.  The state that Hillary Clinton won by 10 points over Barack Obama merely handed the delegates over to him with no complaint.  Happily!  “Here you go, Barack, we’re sorry we didn’t have more to give you.  And here’s our lunch money too.  No, no, we are glad to help.  It’s our pleasure.”

Meanwhile, back in the states, the voters were left bewildered.  They frantically searched their memory banks for the outcome of the primary in their state.  They thought for SURE they had voted for Hillary Clinton, sometimes in overwhelming numbers.  Puzzled, they watched their delegates, the ones they had entrusted with their votes and their tax dollars for the primaries that sent them there, boogie down to Love Train.


Well, I guess that’s that then.  We are officially unified!  Everyone is going to form a conga line down to the precinct in November and festively push the button for the one Democratic nominee who has no chance of winning.  And why is that, you ask?  Simple, if the candidate and the party didn’t listen to the voters during the primaries and didn’t listen during the convention, they have no other choice but to listen to them in November.  Otherwise, the voters just sink into learned helplessness and might as well wear gray soviet era clothing and give themselves over to elections as mere formalities.

No, we’re so not into emotional blackmail.  But we *are* into making sure that the people who are partying now have one hell of a hangover in November.

Oh, did I mention we broke a site record today?  Yep, doubled our traffic.  PUMA Power, the post I wrote on June 2, 2008 after the RBC hearing has been viewed more than 40,000 times.  Savvy old ladies are probably emailing it to their friends.  Damn, we should have never encouraged them to surf!  The DNC has made a lot of new PUMAs this week.  And we are just getting started.  Darragh Murphy has plans.  We’re not going away.  We’re just getting started.  Bwahhahahahahahhhh!  Barack Obama is going to have to actually start earning his office.

As for Hillary Clinton, I’ve heard that the party is going to ask her to help them even more because although she was not good enough to be the nominee and although she wasn’t likeable enough to be the VP, her presence on the campaign trail is absolutely vital for Obama’s success.  Remember, it takes a village to elect Obama.

Not sure the voters are going to buy it though.  After all, the world is a big, scary place, Joe Biden thought that Alberto Gonzales was “the real deal” {{snort}}, and we could probably survive John McCain for four years as long as we had majorities in the House and Senate.  That is, if the voters decide to show up.  And after what happened this week in Denver?  Why bother?  If this is a private party, why ask the voters to pony up for the bar tab?

The Love Train is headed into a tunnel where the light coming from the opposite end is another train with a big, bad GOP painted on the side.  I can hardly bear to look.

174 Responses

  1. Yes, I wondered where all our delegates had gone. How did that happen?

  2. I went to sleep last night so bummed. Bill Clinton said in his speech, speaking about Obama “He has a remarkable ability to inspire people” Obama certainly has inspired me, inspired me to vote for McCain.

    Where is the catharsis Hillary had said we needed? It would bring the party together. I just don’t know what to say anymore. Tired, dejected and just downright sad…P.U.M.A.

  3. RD: “If this is a private party, why ask the voters to pony up for the bar tab?”

    Looking forward to changing to Independent. Truthfully, I feel a bit lost. This isn’t the ending I was pulling for.

    This Brave New World is a scary place to leave to our children.

  4. So true, McCain’s doing his VP pick tomorrow in Dayton I’m going to try to go and see what his Base is made up of.

  5. Where you guys seem to know where to get info, is it possible to get specific names of *who* is asking Hillary to campaign for Barack?

  6. “If you are tired, keep going; if you are scared, keep going; if you are hungry, keep going; if you want to taste freedom, keep going.”
    attributed to Harriet Tubman

    From Heidi Li’s Potpourri today.

  7. Riverdaughter,

    I’m in a daze this morning. I know you have been talking about how the DNC is giving us a “teachable moment” instead of just picking a candidate to win the general election. But I never really saw it clearly until last night when all the cable anchors started talking about how historic it all is–the first black man to be nominated by a major political party.

    I took a quick peek at DK, TPM, and Open Left, and that’s the focus there too. There is no concern that I can see about actually winning in November, just fatuous self-congratulation over nominating a black man. Even NYCEve at DK (what happened to her?) has a diary up claiming that Obama is carrying on the tradition of those who fought against slavery and fought for Civil Rights.

    But what has Obama done–or even said–to show that he should wear the mantle of people like Martin Luther King or Harriet Tubbman? What I see happening is what the Black Agenda Report warned about from the beginning. Obama is being used to advance the goals of the Bush Administration to reduce our liberties and increase corporate power over our lives while at the same time putting a band aid on this country’s long history of racism.

  8. I’m from Florida, I barely remember the taste of freedom. Just kidding, thanks for the inspiration.

  9. Maybe this is the appropriate moment for you to pause and reflect on the whole PUMA thingie. You’ve now got two choices and Clinton isn’t one of them.

    One more thing: Those of us who supported Clinton trusted her with some pretty serious stuff–war and peace, that kind of thing. How is it possible to trust someone for that and not trust them when they give your some friendly political advice?

  10. Froma Harrup in Real Clear Politics: Hillary can’t fix what the dems broke. It’s a good read. Sorry, I’m not savvy evough to send links. I truly am one of those low info hicks.

  11. Bill Clinton:

    In the words of Bill Clinton: “Suppose you’re a voter, and you’ve got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don’t think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Candidate Y you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?”

  12. chatblu – click the url, copy and then pasta here

  13. Middle aged conservative white guy here again. (I didn’t get shot last time, so its your fault Im back 😉

    Watching this convention was like a trip down memory lane for me. Back in 84 (when I was a liberal dem) it was Fritz Mondale vs Jesse Jackson. Jackson was actually in the lead at one point, but Fritz’s machine eventually put him down. Jackson was snubbed at the 84 convention in a similar (though not as bad) manner to the way Hillary is being snubbed now. We all know what happened in 84.

    McCain is likely to win by a landslide, which is bad no matter who you are. If you’re a liberal you dont want a republican in office. If you’re a conservative you dont want a republican in office who will thumb his nose at you because he thinks he doesnt need you. Remember, once he won his second term the Bush team referred to the religious right as ‘goofy’. McCain won’t even wait that long. The next four years fill me with dread. And if anyone thinks this is a subtle endorsement of Obama, let me put it this way: If he treats you badly now, what will he do once he is elected? Ive seen the payback he gave to Hillary, I dont want to see him give payback to America. It’s McCain or nothing…:(

  14. Let me preface by adimitting that I haven’t slept well, waking on and off over the last few nights, I am probably the least coherent at the moment. The sense of futility has taken possession and an acute feeling of hopelessness has settled in.

    The mere thought of what has happened, how it came to pass, what lengths this coalition of thieves has managed to produce, is unsettling. The damage that they have wrought is so overwhelming that it defies rational explanation.

    What are we becoming and where are we headed? To think that we may possibly be in the throes of turning our nation over to the likes of Jesse Jackson, Jr, Donna Brazile, James Clyburn, Al Sharpton, the mindset of people who reside in the atmosphere of Kos, is frightening. Obama is merely the symbol they selected to lead us into a future of bigotry and ra*cial attacks disguised as “progressive” and borders on sheer deceit.

    The press will refuse to go further in examining this deceit: gaming the caucuses, voter disenfranchisement, intimidation, threats, bullying, because we no longer can look for objectivity or openness in seeking the truth. The DNC, representing our party affiliation, was equally complicit in this sham.

    My greatest fear is that somehow, someway, they will pull this off in November. Last night was another preview of what they are capable of accomplishing. My state handed over the majority of delegates when she won here by at least a 12 point edge. The superdelegates caved before all votes were counted in the primaries. As loudly as the electorate spoke in her favor going into June, their voices and wishes were completely obliterated in the “rollcall” vote. What makes us entertain the thought that this hand picked candidate, short on background or experience, will not manage to win in November? Reason and commonsense may say otherwise, but I fear we are up against something bigger than we had ever anticipated in their desire to win.

    The people who should be advocating on our behalf are out in full force exclaiming the wonders of Barack Obama, a man clearly unable to qualify as an experienced candidate. A man whose background is suspect. A man of little or no core principles. This is something I can hardly get my mind around. Why?

    Sorry to be such a downer but I sit here with such a sense of doom and am having such difficulty with the notion that by whatever means they can make it happen, he may very well become president. That is becoming more difficult to live as each day passes. There is nothing to stop them.

  15. Hillary Can’t Fix What Her Party Broke
    But the address at the Democrats’ convention was a campaign speech — for her. It was about health care, women’s struggles and other signature Hillary issues. To her diehard supporters who have yet to come home to Obama, she said: “I want you to ask yourselves. Were you in the campaign just for me?”

    That’s the giveaway line, because for Hillary’s angry backers, the issue is no longer what was done to her. It was about what was done to them.


  16. Hi Riverdaughter,
    I am wandering what really happened behind the scenes? Why did Arkansas give all their votes to BHO?
    Why did CA pass , because they did not agree to give all the votes to 61? Why did IL pass, because the alphabetical order was changed?

  17. To “get a brain moran:”

    Not only was Hillary not ready for what happened in 2008 (her party turning on her, blatant media bashing, caucus fraud), neither were her supporters. PUMA will be there for her in 2012, and all the good people that make up her supporters. Furthermore, the unspoken theme of 2012 will be “maybe when she makes points about swing states and electability, she’s not off her rocker after all.” But that’s putting the cart before the horse. First we vote down Obama and get McCain, the more reliable of the two remaining, into office. Then, starting Dec 08, we begin the Hillary for Pres 2012 preparations.

  18. Get a brain moran, on August 28th, 2008 at 8:25 am

    Hillary hasn’t said that she has 2012 wrapped up. This is the same as when the media said Hillary was saying she was inevitable. She never said it. Hillary hasn’t said anything about 2012. Infact, I think she may never run again.

  19. Just a crazy thought:

    A black T-shirt with a Puma on the front and the slogan ‘Nobody owns my vote!’ would not only make a lot of money for some pac somewhere, but it would scare the living hell out of the DNC. Someone should do this. And for God’s sake, whoever came up with that phrase copyrite it NOW before some damn Obot beats you to it.

    If you want to restore the integrity of your party, it’s not enough for them to lose, or even to lose big. They have to KNOW who made them lose so they cant fall back on that tired excuse ‘we didnt get our message out’.

  20. First post, but I’ve been hanging around for a while. I get a glimmer now what people in Florida have been going through. My vote didn’t even count?

    Just voting for McCain won’t be enough. I’m not so sure the November election won’t be rigged, too.

  21. Shouldn’t the Democratic party have to change their name, since they no longer believe in democracy?

    The people vote for candidate “A” and the party nominates empty suit “B”


  22. Pat,

    I feel the same way. For people like me, this all really matters. I’m not wealthy. I don’t own property. I’m an elderly graduate student looking at having to work full time into old age, maybe losing my social security and not having any health care. I don’t have time to be thrilled over nominating a black candidate (actually, half African, half Caucasian). It doesn’t matter to me what color my President is. I’d be thrilled to have a black President if he or she were a liberal Democrat in the tradition of FDR, JFK, and LBJ. But mostly what I want is a real Democrat in the White House.

    Now I’m looking at four years of McCain and Lord knows what that will bring with it. Katrina has barely been mentioned during the Democratic Convention. Has anyone but Bill Clinton mentioned torture? Has anyone talked about the illegal spying by the Bush Administration? Of course not, because Obama voted for it. Obama voted for Cheney’s energy bill, yet they are trying to paint him as a fighter for green energy!

    RichinPA, maybe you can afford four more years of Republican rule. I can’t. My vote won’t matter here in MA unless Obama is losing here. So don’t try to guilt me with that. If he loses MA, that will mean he’s losing everywhere like George McGovern and Walter Mondale. That is what I expect will happen. I’ll most likely vote for McKinney. I really don’t think I can bring myself to vote for a Republican, and I’m not enjoying the talk about that here.

    I fear for my country. We have just watched a return to the smoke filled rooms of the old days. The Democratic Party apparently didn’t like the people choosing their Presidential candidates, so now they’ve figured out a way to game the system George McGovern managed to put in place. And an older George McGovern is cheering the process on. My politics haven’t changed much since 1968 and 1972. I’m still a very liberal Democrat. I don’t recognize the New Democratic Party at all.

  23. Pat Johnson – I felt the same back in July. I am not afraid anymore. Don’t worry. Obama is going down. His poll numbers are going down now. His support with the young people has also gone down a little. Before it was us and Hillary against Obama, DNC, Media and republicans. Now it is PUMA, GOP, Independent parties against Obama and the DNC. He is going down. Only way he wins is by cheating. Thank GOD the republicans are good at it too.

  24. Biden’s got great judgment doesn’t he? Whether its Clarence Thomas, Iraq, Alberto Gonzalez or racial politics, the man is a true marvel!

    Asshats. All of them.

  25. Total,

    We discourage conspiracy theories here. If you have real evidence for the connection you are claiming, please provide links. Otherwise, you might want to take your theories somewhere else. No Quarter might be a good place.

  26. Sandra:

    The rigged the caucuses and the delegate selection/voting, but they couldn’t rig the actual primaries.

    That’s why Hillary won those.

    The GOP knows how to steal an election, they aren’t gonna let Obamanation get away with anything.

  27. I think that most states gave Obama more votes than was representative in their primary in order to avoid payback. This handwriting’s been on the wall for a long time. Going against Obama at the convention could mean not getting what you want/need from Washington in the future. Did you notice how often the vote reporters said “And __ votes for the next president of the United states”? Talk about choreographed.

  28. I’m worried about 2012 as well. I don’t know if she won’t get knee-capped again.

    @Boston Boomer: God, No Quarter, is just something else. They just went off the rails. Worst part, I don’t think they’ve matched the nuthouse that is Daily Kos.

  29. The whole thing was a sham. They spitted on the faces of voters everywhere. We will remember.


  30. You are so right myiq. I never thought in my wildest “nightmares” that I would be routing for Karl Rove to get out his bag of tricks.

  31. RD you ask: Why bother? If this is a private party, why ask the voters to pony up for the bar tab?”

    I answer wuth Hillary’s own words to us on Tuesday:

    “This is the story of America. Of women and men who defy the odds and never give up.
    How do we give this country back to them?
    By following the example of a brave New Yorker , a woman who risked her life to shepherd slaves along the Underground Railroad.
    And on that path to freedom, Harriett Tubman had one piece of advice.
    If you hear the dogs, keep going.
    If you see the torches in the woods, keep going.
    If they’re shouting after you, keep going.
    Don’t ever stop. Keep going.
    If you want a taste of freedom, keep going.
    Even in the darkest of moments, ordinary Americans have found the faith to keep going.
    I’ve seen it in you. I’ve seen it in our teachers and firefighters, nurses and police officers, small business owners and union workers, the men and women of our military – you always keep going.
    We are Americans. We’re not big on quitting.”

    We cry. We grieve. But then we get right back up and into it and act and work to make sure that Obama is defeated in November.

  32. Has the PUMA movement thought about voting out some of the superdelegates that sent nasty emails to voters? These people have to learn that they are elected to represent the people not themselves. It is not about them but the people and the Democratic party doesn’t seem to understand that.

  33. I am still feeling as though I was in a car accident yesterday. I still can’t think of anything to say. Just wanted to say that I’m here and reading along.

  34. I wish I could be as convinced that he indeed is “going down”. These people are capable of anything. The GOP was more than determined to achieve the same result with Bush and they succeeded. Pardon my inability to be as convinced since he has gotten this far already on the strength of nothing and so far it has worked.

    The voters and the votes have added up to a big fat nothing so far. Whatever it takes, they will game it. Perhaps this is why Donna B was as adamant in her insistance that they just do not need us. They probably don’t.

  35. RD, you coined it: “It’s a private party”
    And NYT HAD to add it’s own sham to the DNC’s! They had to “finesse” the number of delegates that resisted pressure and corruption!

  36. Dear GABM,

    Based on the id you are using, I’m assuming you’re a troll. Your comments will be moderated for now.

  37. I agree Downticket. Hillary may never run again. And I wouldn’t blame her. She has been treated horribly by the Democratic Party.

  38. #
    purplefinn, on August 28th, 2008 at 8:44 am Said:

    I think that most states gave Obama more votes than was representative in their primary in order to avoid payback.

    You are so right. Obama wants to punish anyone that supported Hillary. Corzine and other New Jersey democrats had to travel to Chicago to beg for forgiveness from Obama.

    The Democratic Party is now being run by the Chicago machine


  39. I’m not singling you out. We have had a lot of trolls lately. I’ll leave it up to RD and KB then. It might be better if you just picked another name though.

  40. I’m from N.J.. and I didn’t even vote for Clinton in the primary and I am pissed about what Corzine and the delegation did. The whole process was a complete sham.

  41. Perhaps it is my wish to see something fair happen for a change. Living out the last 6 months and watching fairness become obsolete while the opposite met with stunning acclaim has colored my view to such an extent that it is difficult to remain positive.

    We made calls, inundated switchboards, sent e-mails, faxes, held signs, protested, waited to see some sense of fairplay and all to no avail. We looked to Denver to make a statement, appeal to delegates, take a stand. Look what we got last night. Bill Clinton falling all over himself in praise of Obama to where I had to turn it off. Enough is enough. Those delegates did not honor the basic premise of why we are here. They too took our votes away and handed them over with glee. Too depressing for words.

  42. PJ – at 8:22 am – ditto.

    I worried about the message Bu$hit’s reign sent to the world – the empty suit backed by the media and R party. But I never in my wildest imagined my (ex – now) D party would Xerox the horror….my bad.

    To reinforce the message that Bu$h send, a woman by the name of Jarrett(Obama campaign mgr) was being interviewed on tv a few days ago and stated what a wonder message this candidacy sents to every boy – you too can be president…no experience, accomplishments, no grasp of how the world works or realization of reality.

    The fraud cloud grows bigger every day. While I have changed party affiliation recently, I look to Nov. 4th as being my emancipation date. Will this shock the D party of idgits? Will they develope a conscience or become any more aware? Nah, but it is gone to hurt both the “leadership” and the down ticket. Who cares who they try to blame for their loss. This has been the most horrific primary/election in history – the party of democracy morphed into a party of corrupt slimy individuals. We got all on tape.

  43. I got a couple of emails earlier this week about a new GOP tool. It’s the GOP Toolbar and it is scary….

    I write about it here….it makes O’s 3am text message seem old-fashioned….

    “The GOP Toolbar…the Latest Thing in Their Arsenal… ”

    While Obama was messing with a text message which didn’t quite work out as planned, the GOP has come up with something else…

    more WITH the graphic of what it does!!!

  44. I scanned a bit of Biden’s speech this morning online. First of all, if I hear that Obama was raised by a single mother one more time, I’m going to scream loud enough for all of you to hear. This line from Biden’s speech, talking about Obama, really caught my attention:

    “I believe the measure of a man is not the road he travels but the choices he makes along that road.”

    Do Biden or Obama really want to go there? Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko, William Ayers, etc., etc. I have to say I agree with Biden, but Obama has made very poor choices along his road.

    I am ready and willing to fight against Obama and to fight against my party. I am on board until November, when we the voters will TAKE BACK OUR PARTY! I will be a Democrat again when the Democrats are democratic.

  45. Pat, you make a good point. But most of the fraud was conducted in the caucuses. Let’s hope they can’t, and don’t, make that jump to the general election. But I think you’re right. They think they’ve got this one beat without Hillary’s voter base, which seems to imply (to me at least) that they think they can scam the election.

  46. Yo, Get a Brain, take your drama down like a dozen notches. You KNOW nobody’s in the mood for it.

  47. Steal from me once and shame on me, but steal from me twice and I will Remember in November.

    NEVER EVER obama and the corrupt DNC leadership.

    keep the change
    Hillary 2012

  48. bert, on August 28th, 2008 at 8:50 am

    Love the ending.

    We cry. We grieve. But then we get right back up and into it and act and work to make sure that Obama is defeated in November.

  49. Out of curiousity and anger, I called the MA elections division regarding MA being a “binding” state. I was referred to section 5370(i) which states that delegates are bound to vote for whomever their state elected in the primaries UNLESS they are released from such duty. It looks like they got this one on a technicality. Since HRC released her delegates on Wednesday they were not bound to vote for her.

    I’m not implying that this is right but I wanted put that out there. I also have major issues with the delegate intimidation that most likely occured during the convention. This whole thing is a sham.

  50. Karolina, I am with you, there is nothing I can say that will match the feeling I have. So I lurk and I read, usually that makes me feel better, but not today.

  51. Yeah, we get him defeated and we wind up with McCain. Obama scares me worse than McCain, but at the end of the day, we still have McCain. That is not solace to me. I am single and work two jobs, I have an elderly mother that may have to move in with me and a son that has been stop-lossed. I counted on my party be ethical, to carry on the traditions that I have cherished for so many years. Tonight their candidate, not mine, will stand in front of a greek facade and proclaim his victory, which is as much a facade as the backdrop.

  52. What keeps rolling around in my head today is a song out of the late 60’s, early 70’s, that somewhat expresses how I feel:
    “What have they done to my song, Ma? What have they done to my song?”. My sentiments.

  53. PUMAs!

    Last night was a horrible moment for principles of democracy, it’s true.

    But the important part was that it was all put out there for everyone in the country to see. They may have gotten away with all their backroom cr*p, but only up until they had to have a vote in public that revealed what they were doing. People know how they voted, and they know who really won their states.

    My real fear last night was that they’d be smart enough to make it a very close vote, so it would look to people like he really did win ‘fair and square’. Then people would say, well they gave her all her votes and she still didn’t win!

    But they put their disregard for the voters on public display. They thought it was a marvelous coup, I’m sure, but only because they assume voters are stupid. It’s forever the Dems fatal flaw, they just can’t stop condescending to the voters.

    The first thing we need is one of our video-talented folks to make a video showing the floor ‘vote’ against the actual state by state votes. Arkansas was the most outrageous, but it’s not the only one.

    As for the media narrative — who cares? 18 million people ignored them during the primaries. The audience for the general is even more resistant to the talking head yahoos in msm than the Democrats in general are, poll after poll shows their credibility sinking from a not very high point anyway.

    I truly believe that the marvelous, 5+ min. of applause Bill got was the Clinton delegates getting their own back, in part. The DNC is great at bullying behind closed doors, but they couldn’t shut them up on the floor when the Big Dawg himself walked out on the floor. And interspersed with the sourpussed face of Michelle Obama, it was quite a site to see.

    I was watching Greta last night, and she and Susan Estrich were saying that they’ve been flooded with emails since Hillary’s speech saying it was great, she’s great, but they’re still not voting for Obama. There’s thousands and thousands of PUMAs-to-be out there.

    Just remember, they put their disdain for the voters on record. On record, for everyone to see.

    Yes, there’s work to be done, but the DNC did a big part of it for us, last night.

  54. wigwag, sm,1/2FL and any other Floridian who wishes to get info on McCain, please email Florida@JohnMcCain.com. In fact, to anyhone who wants info, your state@ JohnMcCain.com works.

  55. Reading the headlines today sums up the Primary and why Nov is a still the loser, it is so obvious, same with the lack of understanding about the Greek temple the Obama seal the Ads running that say Obama President. While all in the country believe Obama’s nomination is an historic event yes and for Dem leadership Kennedy, Pelosi and Dean that’s enough for them no other substantive criteria is required …oh sorry AND he is not a successful Clinton And I don’t believe they give a RATs behind if he loses either, Pelosi would then be the default Party leader still not performing and that finger pointing is the gift that keeps on giving her strokes. Sorry Pelosi is also not quailed to be the pseudo President.

    Well the problem of course is it is not, the American People are still saying ok historic and where’s the substance if there is any, and calling your opponent names slandering them with grievance works in only small demographics or identity groups but it is not enough, we still have a county in dire need of competent capable, ethical, knowledgeable, leadership truly willing to work for the country first not Party and that is still unchanged.

  56. Pat, I share your concerns. This year has been a real “eye opener” and education for me. I still have much to learn but will no longer be naive about the political process. The fact that we have all found each other, learn from each other and support each other daily gives me hope and strength to do as Hillary said and “keep going.” Think of the strong organization we have across the country that we can network for issues and candidates that did not exist last year. Morning Joe has been interviewing one of B0s campaign people and they have offices in rural Montana, rural Missouri, etc. places where they shouldn’t be competitive so we have to be aware it is going to be a tough fight.

    Before Hillary called for the acclamation, she called for all the votes to be counted which I assumed meant the votes cast by the delegates prior to the roll call. Where is that list posted? How do we find out how the super delegates voted. I will be writing to each of the candidates on my ballot to ask some pointed questions about their views of this process, their part in it, their plans to fix the party at local, state, and federal level and vote accordingly.

    I don’t think I will have the luxury to not vote or to vote third party. I won’t trust polls either, I will have to use my vote in the most effective way possible. The only question to me is whether it will have more of an impact if I change my registration prior to my vote. I watched the video linked above for the Rise event and one of the speakers after RD pleaded with us to stay in Dem party to affect change. Until there is a viable third party, that is something I am thinking through. One of the things I appreciated so much about this movement is that there was respect for each persons decision to act according to their conscience.

  57. oops, that’s ‘sight to see’ not ‘site to see’

  58. Pat: How about “Bye, bye Miss American Pie”?

  59. Anglachel has a new post up and, as always captures the situation succintly, IMO.

    A Dem never again – a Clinton Dem forever.

  60. This just in:

    Washington Post
    You Go, Bill!
    Washington Post – 43 minutes ago
    William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd president of the United States, just made the most compelling case for why Sen. Barack Obama, the man who defeated his wife for the Democratic nomination, should become the 44th.

    For a while now, we conservatives have railed against the ‘so-called’ liberal media conspiracy. If anyone ever gives me grief on it again my response will be ‘Look what they did to Hillary!’

    The thing I can’t figure out is who is actually running the show??

  61. Phala: You probably don’t have the luxury of voting third vparty or staying home. Neither do I. We live in states that could affect the outcome. That’s why this 42 yr registered Dem is asking for McCain info.

  62. Real Kim, I am as brokenhearted as everyone but I can’t think of anything that will energize me and don’t want to add to the burdens others are already carrying.

    It’s helpful, though, to read that others are in fear and pain too. I feel connected, so maybe using the Confluence as a support group this morning is okay.

    We’ve all been in the same disaster. It’s damage just isn’t visible, yet, like 9/11, or Katrina.

  63. Survey USA for PA 10 McCain up 9…50 to Obama 41,,,, Fla tied 48 and Pelosi NO OBAMA COATTAILS there either for Carney

  64. OhVoter,

    Biden is a gift to the GOP spin machine. They are going to have so much fun with him.

  65. Boo Radly

    yes agree me also…..major difference

  66. Thomas, preferably someone with a uterus, you don’t have one, so shut the fuck up!

  67. Thomas: Obama was all set to vote Alito until an aide stepped in and told him it may not be a wise move. Obama voted in favor of FISA. Obama thinks women facing an abortion might just be suffering from an attack of the blues. Obama and his past associations do no leave me with the feeling that he could make better selections for the SC than the opposition.

    As for Joe Biden, this was the same tool who praised Alberto Gonzalez as “the real deal”, and “I like you, I really do” while the AG sat there lying through is teeth. Does this sound like judgment you can believe in? Jesus, get off the SC meme, it’s a roll of the dice whoever gets in.

    As for judgment, none of these candidates so far has exhibited much to be proud of. Put your argument to rest.

  68. Thomas: Someone honest. Someone moral. Someone who actually cares about others. Someone with moral standards. Someone who does not cheat or steal.

  69. Thomas:

    Tough call. McCain might pick Dobson (Focus on the Family). But Obama might pick his good friend and close neighbor Louis Farrakhan.

    The real question is will the democrats in the senate be able to stop McCain? Obama?

  70. Froma harrop interviewed PUMAs, identifies the dems “hooligan problem”

  71. TheRealKim, on August 28th, 2008 at 9:28 am Said:
    Thomas, preferably someone with a uterus, you don’t have one, so shut the fuck up!

    Kim’s answer shows just how pissed off people really are; personally, I’m amazed that the race is even half/half right now.

    I can’t WAIT til the republicans start the heavy lifting…I NEED to see obama go down, and exposed for what he is.

    I’m so disappointed in the party I thought had principles; I’m devastated.

  72. I thought I could handle it, but I broke down and cried last night.

    I will now explore third-party options.

  73. LLJ: What the hell does Obama believe in, give me something, an accomplishment, or maybe a job that he worked on FULL TIME. Anything, I am grasping at straws here. SHOW ME SOMETHING THIS EMPTY FUCKING SUIT HAS DONE, BESIDES GIVE A REALLY GOOD SPEECH THAT SOMEONE WROTE FOR HIM!!!!

  74. Regarding NJ’s slick moves…

    I saw pictures in the local paper of our delegation. It’s like a line-up in a police precinct! Who’s under indictment, who’s got charges filed against him/her, who has 3 state pensions and is under investigation…PLEASE!

  75. Pat:

    That wasn’t just an aide, it was his chief of staff. That same person was Tom Daschle’s chief of staff when Daschle was Senate Majority Leader. Daschle was defeated for reelection in 2004, the year Obama cake-walked into the Senate.

    How does a rookie Senator get someone like that as his COS?

  76. LLJ,

    You pods poisened the well. Now you have to drink from it. Get over it and stop whining.

  77. LLJ, on August 28th, 2008 at 9:32 am Said:

    I see why you’re clueless; her outfit wasn’t “yellow”.

    The fact that most of us are liberals but are considering voting for a republican for the first time ever, seems to have escaped you.

    That’s awesome, and provides an edge to us.


  78. when do we get a teachable moment on sexism?

    I am sad today really sad. and scared.

    who are we if we are not a democracy? if our vote doesn’t count…if its all a scripted infomercial… then who are we?

  79. LLJ: We do not have to explain to you or anyone else who comes here demanding clarity. We do what we still have the right to express and that is to vote or not depending on how we feel. If you desire an answer than read previous threads that are available here but don’t expect a “genuflection” from us by demanding to know where we are coming from or what led us here.

    Refresh yourself on the previous diaries then read the comment responses attached. But please get off your high horse and think that demanding answers to help clear your “confusion” will make us side with your position is useless. You hold tight to your conlclusions and allow us to do the same.

  80. LLJ:

    IM THE REPUBLICAN HERE, and I dont need to hide behind anybody! What is happening to your party is so bad that it’s causing my party to ignore its core supporters as well. When one side thinks they can get away with BS, everybody starts doing it and soon it becomes business as usual.

    Trust me when I tell you that these are angry dems who have a right to be angry. And when they bring the machine down it will be good for ALL parties. In the words of Thomas Jefferson: People should not fear their government. Government should fear the people.

    Just clingin to my guns and religion here:)

  81. IndigoGrrl, on August 28th, 2008 at 9:38 am Said:

    I don’t know how we come back as a nation based on any sort of solid values; it’s all packaged and sold.

    It disgusts me…with technology, and image consultants..can it be stopped?

  82. Murph, what are you trying to say? Are they criminals, or have they been worked on by the Obama machine?

  83. LLJ, on August 28th, 2008 at 9:32 am

    It’s about democracy. Without it the Supreme Court doesn’t really matter.

  84. The “Love Train” is going to be a train wreck. Already is with Barry and Biden…or what I like to call…the B Flat Boys.

    The convention, from the anemic nominee, to the temple of doom where he will do the catwalk tonight, it is clear to Clinton Democrats that Obama is NOT the one we have been waiting for. He never will be either.

    McCain ’08
    Hillary ’12

    We own our vote! Obama does not! Get over it Obamabots!

  85. Yes, Destardi, I am upset. Roe v. Wade was what, 1973? That was 35 years ago and we have had 12 years of Democrats in office during that time? The other 23 years was Republican and women can still make a choice.

    I worked with victims of Domestic Violence for 10 years and when the courts didn’t help them, we did. We found a way legally to get them to safety and if they want to get rid of Roe, fine. Women will find a way to extend a hand, we always have.

    I want people to stop threatening me with what McCain might do and start telling me what Obama will do. Because frankly, that empty suit, from what I have seen has done absolutely fucking nothing.

  86. LLJ, on August 28th, 2008 at 9:32 am Said:

    I am confused

    Yes you are. And from the smell, I think you made a poopie in your pants too.

    Run along home, and have your mommy change your pampers, and please don’t interrupt the grown-ups again.

  87. Kim: Amen!

  88. LLJ: Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  89. This is not about being a sore loser, not being able to get over it, or a “hissy fit” that my candidate didn’t win. I’m a Democrat in Texas, for crying out loud. It’s not like losing is something new to me.

    This is about corruption. We have firsthand accounts from people in the caucus states about the intimidation and outright cheating that was rampant. No one is paying attention. Not the media, not our “leaders”, no one. Even the trolls stick their fingers in their ears over that.

    If our votes don’t matter, if we can’t trust the man to allow something as basic to our democracy as an accurate counting of the votes, why should I trust him with anything? He’s a liar and a thief.

  90. Good morning PUMAs. Yesterday was a rough day, but I was not surprised. I have gently been saying for the past month that the fix was in and there was no way they were going to have an open roll call vote. It’s been obvious since February, and extremely clear
    since June that the DNC was strong-arming delegates and SD’s, and they did not have the courage to stand up.

    For me, the saddest part of yesterday was watching Hillary, herself, ask for the acclamation, and then listening to Bill. HIllary’s speech made me so happy–he strength, her defiance, and her intelligence in walking a fine line. Bill’s bothered me very much. Suddenly, after months of criticizing BO’s lack of experience, Bill made the case that he doesn’t need it and ‘he’s ready!” What happened to “Ready on Day One!?” Bill used himself as a comparison (or being inexperienced and too young), but Bill was a successful 2-term Governor before he ran for president! Talking about BO’s “understanding, instincts, and judgment…” Blech.

    That was the disappointment for me, but having said that: it does not affect what we have built and how we will move forward. We need to focus our energy and resources on defeating BO and the enablers who made this happen. For Pelosi to recently state that we are “wallowing” and “playing victim” is outrageous. This woman has been insulting other women/HRC supporters for months, and I have HAD IT WITH HER! What a disconnected, elitist snob she is, and rude to the people she claims to represent. Did she EVER listen to what we were saying and respond respectfully? Did any of them–including BO? THEY work for US, and we must protest and resist as a thorn in their side!

    I am saddened, but I am still mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. NEVER GIVE IN–that’s what they want from us–to be demoralized and compliant.

  91. LLJ:

    Bullshit. The first thing you did was accuse them of being repubs in disguise. Don’t even try with me. I can spot a dirty trick a mile away…

  92. Valhalla said at 9:13….Just remember, they put their disdain for the voters on record. On record, for everyone to see.

    Yes, there’s work to be done, but the DNC did a big part of it for us, last night.

    Never fear, the DNC has yet to demonstrate “smarts” just clueless hubris. They continue to write their own death figuratively speaking.

    Message to DNC – carry on to oblivion – maybe it will guarantee America will never be given another empty suit. Oh, I know we have always had them, just not quite this empty or flargant. We shall also never again be fooled by the corporate media. Those fools need to be turned off so the ‘kids” among us aren’t lead by the nose and drinking kool aid.(DK – dumb and dumber)

  93. “…………….I am really unclear and none of your sites have helped me understand and clearly you don’t feel the need to explain, which is certainly your right. I’ll stop exploring because I don’t think I am interested in you all & your bitterness.” LLJ

    You must be for Obama. Not interested in doing the research, gives up easily. So take a vacation. Bye.

  94. Is that Donna Brazile playing with her Blackberry again?

  95. Karolina,

    NJ pols are NOTORIOUS for being corrupt. That they pulled this slick move doesn’t surprise me. It enrages me, yes, but seeing who they are puts the whole thing in ugly perspective.

  96. purplefinn, on August 28th, 2008 at 9:41 am Said:

    BEST ANSWER, period.


  97. Everyone does know that Bill was over the top, right? You do know that none of the things he attributed to Obama were right, right? You do know that he only did this speech this way because the press was giving Hillary grief for not saying these very things the night before, right? Bill just covered his and Hillary’s ass. They are home free.

    Be thankful for that and always remember that politics is little more thana Kabuki dance when it comes right down to it.

  98. This is about corruption…If our votes don’t matter, if we can’t trust the man to allow something as basic to our democracy as an accurate counting of the votes, why should I trust him with anything? He’s a liar and a thief.

    EXACTLY CINDY! That needs to be the first line in EVERY PUMA interview. They are still labeling us “sore losers” etc. and it is NOT about “losing” (which she didn’t do anyway, they rigged it). That’s again, why Bill disappoints me–isn’t anyone going to stand up for the most fundamental democratic principles? Ickes made that very clear at the RBC meeting re: Fair Refection. It’s BEDROCK. So why didn’t any “party leaders” fight for that? That is why I will NEVER support him/them–they violated the core of the Party. He is ILLEGITIMATE.

  99. Boo Radly, on August 28th, 2008 at 9:47 am Said:

    Is it just me, or can I imagine a huge checklist of HoDeans and Donna Brazier’s, “shove money to obama, check. smash clintons, check. give obama nomination, regardless of votes, check.”


  100. RD: Just arrived and immediately began LOL @ your heading. Indeed. Oy.

  101. destardi, coming from you, I feel high praise indeed. Warm fuzzies and all. I was twainwalker on TM and I remember you.

    Great healing with all of you. I’m off for groceries.

  102. Yes, it’s politics. Bill’s been in it since the 1960s and understands what to say and when to say it. He knows his role and he knows that tomorrow is another day. You don’t go storming off if you want to get things done.

  103. I do see that Regency, but if even Bill plays along, then who speaks the truth–ever? I love the Big Dawg and to see him enthusiastically promoting this liar and thief was the worst. I guess it’s just a fantasy to have a firebrand stand up and rip the roof off sometime, somewhere. That’s why people like Kucinich never get anywhere. People don’t really want truth and change–they want to be comfortable.

  104. Valhalla: Yes, you’re right. It’s on record. Part of me did not want to watch that grotesque display, but I felt compelled to witness it. I hope that someone with the means can put together a documentary of some sort.

    Upthread, a commenter (sorry, can’t remember who right now) checked out the MA guidelines regarding the binding primary votes. I was thinking of that last night, how Hillary’s releasing her delegates probably was the loophole for those 13 states. Nonetheless, it was blatantly unethical of those delegations to stomp all over the voters’ expressed preferences.

  105. We have reduced the presidency and the qualifications to seek that office to the same maxim of American Idol. It is not the talent that wins in the end, but the singer who can shout the loudest and get enough votes via text messages. Just as I gave up on watching American Idol when fairly decent singers were being bypassed by those whose “screeching” from the top of their lungs were considered artists, so too with expecting the qualified candidate to succeed.

  106. purplefinn, on August 28th, 2008 at 9:52 am Said:

    Nice thing to say…I appreciate it, and the feeling is mutual.

  107. Fif, but I saw this particular instance this way: Bill has set the bar high just by existing and now by giving this speech, he’s set the bar even higher. Barack Obama will never be to America or even to the Dem Party what Bill Clinton was to the Democratic Party. He just set him up to fail.

    In his usual fashion, when Bill talks look for the opposite of what he says and you’ll know it’s true. That’s slick Willy.

    Oh, Good, I’m mimicking freepers.

  108. Gary and Mawm have a new thread up.

  109. You get truth and change by sometimes keeping a low profile and going along to live another day.

  110. The last three days, since MO’s speech, has been like watching and hearing about the Sopranos take over the Democratic party and start to get ready to take over Washington.

    And I am so wishing this was just an over-the-top cable show.

  111. Forgive? Sounds good
    Forget? I’m not sure I could

    They say time heals everything
    But I’m still waiting

    I’m through, with doubt
    There’s nothin’ left for me to figure out
    I’ve paid a price
    And I’ll keep paying it

    I’m not ready to make nice
    I’m not ready to back down
    I’m still mad as hell, and I don’t have time to go round & round & round
    It’s too late to make it right
    I probably wouldn’t if I could
    Cause I’m made as hell and can’t bring myself to do what it is you think I should

    I know you said: Can’t you just get over it?
    It turned my whole world around
    And I kind a like it


  112. I take Bill’s extraordinary support for B.O. last night as an indication that the Clintons clearly sensed (by day #2) that B.O. will lose the GE, and they therefore want to make sure that they are not blamed so as to keep the door open for ahillary run in 2012. Bill did it for Hill. (I wonder if he’ll show up tonight at the Greek agora?)

  113. L. Johnson (NOQuarter)’s take on Pres. Clinton’s speech last night:


    Bill Clinton’s performance tonight was masterful. He reminded Democrats of what he accomplished in 8 years and graciously stated that the same could be true of Obama. Bill also set the bar very high for what Obama has to accomplish. Clinton is the master of the intimacy of the convention center, which allows him to make everyone listening feel as if he is talking to them. But he also framed the upcoming election in terms that surely has Obama’s advisors kicking themselves. Why?

    For starters they will have to reluctantly concede that Barack’s attacks on Bill Clinton’s Presidency were wrong. Bill has mapped out campaign themes for them. They now have to follow Clinton’s lead or look like the clowns they are. And then there will be the comparison between Bill tonight and Barack tomorrow. But Barack is not speaking in an intimate setting. He will try to match Bill in an outdoor stadium dressed up like a John Belushi Toga Party. Not only will Barack be unable to re-create the sense of “I’m talking just to you” that Bill Clinton demonstrated. Nope. He will be in an outdoor arena that will certainly conjure up something like the public rallies filmed by Leni Riefenstahl. It will be the kind of pageantry that will repel rather than attract many Americans.

    Barack would not have as much a problem with most Hillary supporters if he had run a campaign praising the accomplishments of the Clinton era. He could have made the case that he was ready to bring a new vision to build on the foundation laid by Bill, but he did not. He ran against Bill’s legacy but did not mention him by name. Nope. He praised Ronald Reagan for changing the direction of the country. He said Reagan did it in a way that Clinton did not. Don’t take my word. Thank God for video tape. [Here he included the clip of BO praising Ronald Reagan.]

    Let’s give Bill Clinton credit. He had every reason to tell this chump to shove it. Instead, he rose above his personal hurt and the insults, and still tried to help Barack. But Bill can’t win it for Barack. As the days unfold folks will come to appreciate more and more that Barack is no Bill Clinton. We know Bill Clinton. Barack, you ain’t got the stuff.


  114. LLJ:

    Conflucians don’t need to be told why they’re here, they just know they found a home when they arrive.

    If we need to explain it to you, you just don’t belong, sorry, thanks for playing.

    See Rico the bartender to find out what lovely parting gifts we have for you.

  115. hatshepsut1988, Bill and Chelsea left Denver last night supposedly.

  116. Obama is merely the DNC’s out of control puppet who believed his own press. McCain will win the GE. The DNC irreparably destroyed Obama’s chances of winning in November by the travesty played out in the convention. Add to this the spectacle that will be at the Ocropolis tonight and Obama is done for. Do the American people really need to the excess of the Democratic Party put on display for a senator also ran hoping to be president? Contrast this decadence with stories in newspapers today about food banks running out of food because so many people need help just to feed their families! And here is Obama and the DNC foolishly displaying their extravagence on a candidate. Completely out of touch with the rapidly disappearing middle class and the growing working poor.

    Many Americans cannot afford to maintain a home, feed their familiies, receive dental and medical care, educate their children, but they can always watch the coronation of Obama at the Ocropolis .. oh wait I forget, they can’t afford to pay for the electricity to power their tv sets either.

    This is a lose/lose for the Dems and the American People.

    I guess…. Let Them Eat Cake!

  117. Sorry, but my take on that speech was bitter disappointment. Bill may have felt “obligated” to speak but showering abject praise when none is warranted just shakes my sensibilities. He could have delivered a lukewarm speech and I would have lived with it.

    But going on and on, overpraising this moron when we all know this to be untrue, is asking too much of us. They must consider us as willing to become as complicit in this sham as they are willing to exploit it.

    I like Bill, but enough is enough of the pandering.

  118. Larry’s got it.

  119. Bill’s out there putting it on the line, as he has been doing for many years.

    He has my infinite respect and gratitude, which he has more than earned..

  120. It’s almost as if Bill intentionally went overboard with BO platitudes knowing full well it would that type of hype (for someone whose personality has saturated us, day after day) would yield the opposite effect. Confirming this ‘god like’ status surrounding BO. And plenty of people are quite fed up with that — BIll knows it.

  121. Maybe I am expecting too much but just once I would like to hear a politician speak with enough clarity and truth that I don’t have to sit and second guess what he/she really, truly, absolutely, sincerely. without doubt, is saying. Enough with reading through nuance, double meanings, coded words, winks and nudges. Just speak the goddamn truth for once and let us handle it. Is that too much to expect?

  122. Pat Johnson, on August 28th, 2008 at 9:12 am

    You took me down memory lane for a moment….here’s Melanie singing “Look What They’ve Done To My Song Ma”

    Look what they’ve done to my party, ma! In 1968, I worked for Eugene McCarthy. In 1972, first year I could vote, I voted for McGovern, and have voted dem every election since. Never in a million years would I have ever thought I would vote for a repub. But this year, I feel it’s the only recourse I have. My party’s been hijacked and I will NOT give in to the hijackers’ demands. I will NOT pay the price they ask. I will NOT fall in line, not this year.They took my party, and they can keep it. Once they realize it’s worthless to them, and they toss it away, I’ll be there to pick it up and breathe PUMA life into it.

    Until then, I’ll do the unthinkable. I’ll vote for John McCain.

  123. Kate, go up a little and read my comment. Tell me how you’re going to like it when Obama treats your vote like yesterday’s garbage. How will that seem fair to you? Don’t think he won’t do it, either. That seems to be the only record he has.

    My “dream denied” is a fair vote. Sorry, that is unacceptable to me.

  124. Having a “D” next to his name in the congressional register might make Obama a democrat in the eyes of the powers that be, but his voting record (what little of it exists) does not convince me he is a democrat at heart.

    Obama voted for FISA and the Cheney/Bush energy plan. He has shown a dangerous tendency to to flip-flop and then deny it. We have no guarantee he would be any different than Bush. Just because he’s a ‘democrat’ does not make him a ‘safe’ or ‘wise’ choice.

    No way, No how, No Obama.

  125. “…could probably survive John McCain for four years as long as we had majorities in the House and Senate.”

    If the Dems keep hacks like Reid & Pelosi they’ll lose the Congress in 2010.

  126. Let’s unite and beat Obama and the Dumbocrats! The last thing we need in this economy is another tax and spend liberal!

  127. mystic4hillpuma: Thanks! I never thought to go to YouTube.

  128. Pat — I’m with you on that, but there’s too many children that look like adults involved here.

    Bill and Hillary were both speaking to the adults in the room. It was a challenge to cowboy up, as they say. Conventions are the worst, they are nothing but the fakey stuff.

    It’s too early to know for sure, but no bump yet, at least from Rasmussen — with leaners Obama and McCain are tied. The adults are listening even if the kids think the show’s all for them.

  129. And we thought the BZero trolls were an aberation in the beginning……..They continue on in their traditional clueless manner – thick, dense, meager, stingy, and stupid. Carry on trolls – you are on a roll – elect John McCain!

  130. just a historical note. As a very young man, Bill won election as governor, then 2 years later lost because he was overconfident. He learned his lesson was reelected two years later and reelected for a total of 6 terms. Last night when he talked about experience he said Biden. Bill may have been younger but he had served as the chief executive of a state for 12 years. There is no comparison and Bill laid down the gauntlet for B0, can you do all of this for the American people and will they believe you? Just my opinion and wish he had not had to phrase it so positively.I made a few remarks to the tv during the speech. He proved he was “still the man” with the long standing O he received.

  131. It just drives me crazy that Bill & Hill are expected to win this election for BO. It reminds me of a spoiled brat begging his parents for a new car. What happens after they get it…they total it!

    After Bill said that BO made the best choice in picking Biden for VP, I knew he wasn’t sincere in his support of BO. I think he was trying to prove a couple of points: He’s still got it, and he can move the polls (I think he will give BO a small temporary bounce, but we’ll see tomorrow if that happened).

  132. PUMA is for Democracy and the stopping of the coup perpetrated by Pelosi, Dean, Brazille and a whole host of cohorts in the DNC. The election has been scammed from the voters and our votes do not count.
    This election has not only been stolen, but you are being punked about who this dangerous candidate, Obama, really is.
    PUMA is not for getting in line behind corrupt politicians. Puma is for restoring the party to it’s values. The ‘new democratic party’ is just a mirror image of fidel castro’s coup and it has to be stopped.

  133. Okay I’ve had it. For those who have no clue what-so-ever. Our Democratic party has been hijacked! Our votes across the nation have no meaning and were not counted in the primary or at the convention!!!!
    HELLO? WE HAVE BEEN HIJACKED. Another thing, we are facing a dictatorship…whisper that whisper whisper….NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND? WE ARE FIGHTING FOR AMERICA. We ARE fighting for the children to grow up free! WE ARE NOT SORE LOSERS. Hillary really won but through a series of aggressive tactics from murder to threats of losing ones lively hood, the votes were stolen. Post and repost. Oh and someone said they didn’t know who was behind this COUP! how do you spell NANCY PELOSI, THE THIRD MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN WASHINGTON! WE ARE FACING the greatest threat ever and that is the doing away with the bill of rights and turning America into a dictatorship! Just like what happened over-night to Cuba in 1961. They thought it was going to be a good leader they were electing and what happened is similiar to what is going on here right now with this election. Lucky I’m 2 hours from the Canadian border.

  134. PUMA lives on. Now BO can go fail on his own. That’s enough of expecting the Clintons to babysit him into the White House.

    Hillary should just go on a long vacation and return on November 5.

    Thanks for all of the reports from Denver.

  135. First time commenter here….

    And, first let me warn you, I’m a conservative Republican.

    I’ve watched this board with interest because, believe it or not, we are in the same boat.

    As a conservative, McCain is not my guy. He was shoved down our throats from the get-go. In fact, many McCain supporters were threatening to stay home or vote Democratic – for Hillary. I was one of them who was going to stay home. I and many like me would have guarenteed a dem in office.

    However, no more…..Since Obama was forced down AMERICA’s throat, since information about his questionabe association with shady characters like Ayers and Wright, since his inexperience became even more apparent, and since his arrogance was unvieled overseas and at Temple Obama, I’m convinced. He cannot make it to the White House. I’m voting for my party’s nominee, McCain. Obama did unite a party – he united the GOP behind McCain.

    I was further shocked at how the DMC totally hijacked the electoral process and handed Obama the nomination. It was insulting to ANY American.

    And, I loved Hillary’s speech. I may not agree with her platform, but gosh darn it, I’d rather her in office in Obama. And she’s certainly more prepared.

    Therefore, PUMA is my new best friend. We both have a similar goal – NObama.

    Good luck PUMA’s. I’ll be watching you….

  136. It is time to stay focused on why I am a PUMA.

    For me, it is because I cannot trust BO with the “pretty serious stuff–war and peace, that kind of thing,” (to quote our friend Rich in PA). In addition, I cannot trust BO on universal health care, nor the economy, nor our civil liberties etc. etc. etc. etc. In fact, I can’t trust anything BO says.

    NObama, NOvember, Never!

  137. Back in 2000, when the election was stolen from Gore, I literally had a pain in my heart for what was occurring. You see, I had not been born in the US and had become a citizen as an adult. I truly cherished that designation, and on that day I was shattered that they had trampled on the rights I had worked so hard for. Shorlty after that , I took a job outside the country, because I no longer felt it was the place I had grown up in and loved. Now living in London, I got energized and excited by what I thought would be the taking back of our country from thieves…..what a surprise to find out that the party I called my own has instead decided to join the thieves in their disprespect of everything that the countries principles as espoused in the founding documents stood for.

    Well, I hate to be so pessimistic, but I am at a point where I don’t think I’ll be coming back, and I certainly have no desire to even vote, what for?

    Do you honestly think that these demagogues will even acknowledge that it was their fault that the country sunk deeper into the toilet? No way; and no matter what they say, they will find a way to pin it on the Clintons….Hillary’s name will be mud and our once in a lifetime opportunity will have been squandered…….

    What a joke the country has become…..

  138. “That’s why people like Kucinich never get anywhere. People don’t really want truth and change–they want to be comfortable.”

    Um, Kucinich will never get anywhere because he’s a joke and a myth, and there are plenty of people who can recognize an arrogant self-serving perennial candidate who is playing off a cult base when they see one. Do the research. The anti-war crowd needs to grow up and stop worshipping these Kuchiniches, Ron Pauls and Obamas without doing the research. You have to go to the local papers to do the research. That’s where you’ll find out that Kucinich got his start by race-baiting. And how he shut every contender out (women for the past two primaries—and the last one, Rosemary Palmer, was an antiwar Gold Star mom who was endorsed by the Iraqi vet Paul Hackett who was forced out of the Dem Senate run by the Dems in power) by refusing to debate them all the while whining his ass off on how he was shut out of debates.

    Just sayin.

    Meanwhile, if McCain is announcing his VP choice in Ohio it may be that the rumor he’s chosen Rob Portman is correct.

  139. This is not “spin”: “If our votes don’t matter, if we can’t trust the man to allow something as basic to our democracy as an accurate counting of the votes, why should I trust him with anything?”–Cindi, exactly.

    Some of ya’ll are feeling down, and I understand. But I woke up this morning with a feeling of crystalline clarity.

    I am a free agent. I belong to no party. No one can buy me. No one owns me. No party owns my body, my mind, my soul. No one can terrify me with my own uterus. No one can stand a thug next to me and make me shut up. No one can force me to the polls to vote one way or another. I am a delegate from my own country. I am PUMA, watchdog, critic, observer, condemner. I am a woman, and not submissive. I am a human being, have eyes, and have seen all.


  140. focusedfuture,

    I really think you might have more luck trying to convince first time voters…

  141. I have posted some of these thoughts on pumapac but perhaps it will comfort you all here who are feeling low today.

    Hillary has given the crooks in the DNC enough rope to hang themselves. I am very grateful to her for that. She knows how deep the corruption is — she’s a politician.

    What is about to happen to Senator Obama’s campaign will be embarrassing. It will set all records for humiliating political defeats.

    I am proud to be a PUMA.

  142. To Focused Future:
    Many of the single mothers in Obama’s District in Chicago maybe thought Obama would help them too.

    However, who Obama helped was one of his buddies, REZKO who got millions of taxpayer dollars to renovate low income housing there. That money got ripped off (Obama knew this guy was a thief)

    The singlemoms and their children who lived in this “renovated” housing in Obama’s District got to live with NO HEAT (in housing that would make a slumlord proud) in the Chicage winter. That’s how Obama
    shows his real “concern” for people

    Also, check out the poverty that Obama’s own BROTHER lives in Kenya…Obama’s brother lives in a shack and earns something like $10.00 a month, (couldn’t Obama spare a little $$$ for his Brother); while Obama lives in a $1.9 million dollar Chicago mansion. If this is how he treats his own BROTHER, then how will he treat us; and,

    Michele Obama (who makes over $300,000) a year working for a major hospital in Chicago (is helping the single moms and others who need medical care get DENIED assistance because it “COSTS TO MUCH TO HELP THEM.”

    This same Chicago hospital where MO is helping to kick the single moms and poor folks to the curb is receiving millions of dollars in taxpayer writeoffs AND…this hospital BY LAW is suppose to help low income folks and people without health insurance (but who cares about a little thing like laws, morals and ethics when your getting paid 3G’s to screw poor folks?).

    Focused Future, I certainly appreciate your concern for your son and your own future….but OBAMA is not concerned about YOU….what Obama has done in the past ,,,he will do in the future (that is turn his back on poor folk to help his rich buddies).

    The taxpayers and ciizens of the US are going to pay through the nose. Wait till you see the amount of TAXES you will be paying to support Obama’s PLANS FOR US!!!

    With Obama as POTUS none of the folks you mentioned will have a future….so I hope you really check out the TRUTH about Obama.

    See this website:


    The people in Chicago who know Obama best sure have some information to share. Hopefully you will be willing to check out the truth.

    BTW, Bill and Hillary Clinton, who were both so horribly treated by the Obama Campaign did what they had to do and they sure are a AWESOME…wow!
    I Iove them both of them and
    also I think for myself; so I will not support Obama.

    Obama and his Cohorts would be a disaster for THE FUTURE OF this Country.


  143. Right on magdalena and madazhel:


    Beautifully written…:-)

    YOU SAID IT!!!

  144. Oh RD & CO!

    first congrats on stats! yay! & bwhahahwhahhwhwhwaa!

    yes, PUMAclan! ——- we rule!

    for a treat NQ has “the greek temple”
    and Uppity Woman has “the togas”

    Riverdaughter, YIKES it IS the ELECTION of our lifetimes, just like 1912! Seneca falls, ho!

  145. […] Thursday: Democrats in Denver Elect President McCain! (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) In a show of shmoonity, Democratic delegates from across the country abandoned their voters and threw their support behind Barack Obama… The DNC has made a lot of new PUMAs this week.  And we are just getting started.  Darragh Murphy has plans.  We’re not going away.  We’re just getting started… The Love Train is headed into a tunnel where the light coming from the opposite end is another train with a big, bad GOP painted on the side.  I can hardly bear to look. […]

  146. Jim….
    1. You and your fellow Obama supportors disgraced DEMOCRACY in our Country.
    2. Obama will be defeated in November.

    Go spread your stupid self-serving
    lies somewhere else.

    We know the TRUTH and
    we intend to do something about it.
    Obama will not be POTUS!!!

  147. CarlyinNJ –
    The whole process was ridiculous. If we wanted experience, we would have had Biden, Dodd or Richardson. It was like we were electing a high school president – the whole thing was a popularity contest.

  148. And CarlyinNH – about the most fundamental principal of DEMOCRACY is that everyone abide by the result of the vote. What are we, a 3rd world country where we revolt when our candidate doesn’t win?

  149. 1. Jim – You need to examine the sexism that underlies your comment. I doubt that you even recognize it as such and until you do you will not be able to grasp much of what is being discussed on this site.

    2. Everyone Else – Hillary and Bill Clinton recognized the forces they faced and now we have a better sense of it ourselves. If either of them was to have a future in the Democratic Party it was vital that they removed themselves entirely from harm’s way – from any possibility of blame for Obama’s defeat, if indeed he is defeated. We should be grateful that they did so – because we will need them in the future. But for now, it’s up to us.

  150. Angel Perez…don’t give up!!!

    Tyrants will always be with us…
    Power and Money is so seductive
    and Democracy is worth fighting for….!!!

    It is disappointing and sometimes heart breaking;
    I’ve been in this battle since I was 18 (women’s rights, marching and working for peace and equlity) and it’s been over 40 years.

    The POWER of just even one person standing up to TYRANNY is amazing and we are way more then one.

    Yes, we need to share our grief…and we need to get up again and stand for our DEMOCRACY.

    Blessings2U Angel Perez
    I am glad you are a citizen of the US
    She needs you now!!!
    PUMA is strong and we do make a difference!!!

  151. Jim it’s NJ….
    Yeah you said it about Third World Country…that’s what you guys made this Primary election into…!

    Check out the video on the voter fraud, intimidation, criminal activity (just like in a third world nation)
    that occured in the Caucus States that was committed by the Obama Campaign:


    Check out the website:


    and check out the meticulous documentation of
    Dr. Lynette Long at:


    Guess what???
    WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED….like I said

    Go spread your stupid self-serving
    lies somewhere else.


  152. Oh please. I can’t believe this phony concern about ‘the women’.

    How’s that unity feeling for ya, Jim?

  153. Riverdaughter——Hear! Hear!

    The DNC has effectively said, “Let them eat cake.”

  154. What sort of mindset comes up with the idea that women thinking for themselves sets the women’s movement back? IMO, it would be “irrational” to vote for a candidate because someone else told me to.

  155. Pat,

    Screw them. You still have your vote. It is yours. None of those thugs and liars can take it away from you. There is no roll call, caucus, or super delegates in November. On election day, when you walk into that voting booth, your voice about this country’s future is equal to that of Pelosi, Obama, Reid, and Dean.

  156. Undermining democracy is having a fake roll call where pledged delegates, elected to represent the voters from their state, threw their votes to Obama to create a photo-op and sound clip of unity. Undermining democracy is having an elite group of party members called “super delegates” select who to pull over the finishing line.

    Do you know North Korea is called the Democratic Republic of Korea? Saying you’re democratic don’t always make it so.

  157. BO gamed, stole, bullied every election, whether in state senate, or in primaries, because that’s the Chicago machine way: do *whatever you have to* to win the election, and you can do whatever you (and corporate masters and cronies) please when elected.

    Are we sure, at this point, that the GOP has a better vote-stealing machine? I’m a little nervous about this.

  158. Hi Riverdaughter, I’d like to express my feelings after watching TV yesterday afternoon saw HILLARY, yes, Hillary suspending the roll call!! I just couldn’t believed it! Is this true? I asked myself.. No, it can’t be. All we and you the PUMA coalition did to get Hillary’s name into nomination!!! Oh my God !!! and she looked so happy to do it….. I was left out angry and very sad at the same time. So, this is it. Hillary can’t win the nomination… I am still angry because my vote for Hillary was given to Obama by Hillary (?) What is this? I don’t know what to think….Politicians.. they are all the same and Hillary is identical like the others….
    Therefore, what to do? VOTE FOR JOHN MCCAIN. Deeply in my heart I don’t Obama to win the GE. Everything in the Democratic party is a bluff!!!!

  159. Look, you guys- the part of an informed citizen is to look at all sides- I was curious what your stance is and not sure why you are all so defensive about it- couldn’t one of you at least direct me to a better website where I can figure it out? All I see here is everyone really angry- I would like to know what is fueling that anger and if there is a validity to some of it. I have heard rumors and I was coming from a point of curiosity- why are you all so terribly mean?

  160. Jim: If you think that women’s behavior is setting us back decades, then by comparison I will tell you that I believe the behavior of Barack Obama and the DNC have set both racial relations and democracy back centuries.

  161. True–the Obama campaign has set racial relations back at least 30 years in this country. To a true progressive, like the Clintons’, to be called a racist is the worst. That is why it cuts so deep–there are just some things you don’t do and that kind of smearing is the worst.

  162. My heart is very heavy today. As a man, I’m sure I don’t understand all the mysogyny and mistreatment as a woman that Hillary endured . . . but I get a lot of it. If it is a feminine way of seeing the world to say that Hillary was robbed and worse by the DNC then I count myself fortunate to be in touch with that feminine part of me. It so sad to see our Democratic Party taken hostage by tyrants who think they know best.

    I have to say that the strong and cogent intellectual words and actions by PUMAs of every stripe have been overwhelming and companioning for this male who has found no others who share my concerns. Without the PUMA blogs and blogradio offerings I would have been completely isolated.

    Thank you all, women and men, for building a community that cares about democracy.

  163. Bostonboomer said, at 8:41 AM:

    RichinPA, maybe you can afford four more years of Republican rule. I can’t.

    Um, that’s my point. Right now there are two options, Obama and McCain. your reply is premised, as I understand it, on the possibility of a third option, whether Clinton or someone else. i deny the possibility of that option. Even if you believe that Obama as nominee makes a Democratic victory much less likely, what you’ve said (quoted above) would seem to demand grudging support for him, or at least a sullen vote for him, because you can’t afford the alternative.

  164. Robert Bezold at 9:39 said:
    IM THE REPUBLICAN HERE, and I dont need to hide behind anybody! What is happening to your party is so bad that it’s causing my party to ignore its core supporters as well. When one side thinks they can get away with BS, everybody starts doing it and soon it becomes business as usual.

    Robert Bezold, conservative republican, in case anyone hasn’t said it yet, I am glad you are here!

  165. Jim is an eejit troll whom you should not feed.

    In defense of the delegates who caved, Hillary wasn’t really making it easy for them to figure out what to do. I know she was pushed into certain things, but she could have drawn the line at stopping the roll call and asking for acclamation. Her campaign could have contacted the head of her delegates in each state and clarified that the first round vote was real and they should vote as they promised.
    I tried to view her speech as the first of her 2012 campaign, but I think she should have drawn the line there.

  166. Rich in PA is a troll too. We really have to stop engaging with them. It distracts us from sharing ideas with each other.

  167. I sleep with fudge tucked in my cheeks.

    (Edited for the amusement of the Site Administrator)

  168. I’m not wearing underpants.

    (Edited for the amusement of the Site Administrator)

  169. The roll call was a terrible mistake. Many of us were just stunned when state after state won by Hillary were given to Obama. I still do not have it resolved in my own mind as to why Hillary was a party to the proceedure. Next, Democratic leaders who I have respected, caved in and went along with the farce. Historians when they try to make sense out of what happened at this convention will have to conclude that Democracy in the Democratic party died in Denver on August 27, 2007. It would have been better if, Obama and the DNC just let the process take its course, but it seemed that they just had to rub the Clinton’s supporters nose in shi$. I think it also will be recalled as the day that Obama lost the election. He will get a bump in the polls, but in days to come, when people think about the dictitorial way this convention was conducted, they will further sour on the Democratic party. I have voted Democractic for 50 years. This will be the first time in my life to vote Republican. I may even do that down line.

  170. It is evident that none of you researched Hillary Lies. Please do some internet research and if you don’t believe what you read then search Hillary lies video. After your research please post comment. Barrack is the man for the job, a man with more wisdom and morals than John McCain or Hillary Clinton.

  171. Through all the ridicule, Hillary did everything but beg, and the party turned a deaf ear to her because she was a woman.

    Apparently, McCain and Palin were watching that also, and decided to pick up the lonely ball and run with it.

    What do Democrats expect?

  172. I’am your fan

  173. Very useful! Thx

  174. Ваш блог мог бы приносить неплохие деньги 🙂

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