• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on “Pet Peeves”
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Upon a painted ocean
    Propertius on A Very Good Day
    Propertius on “Pet Peeves”
    alibe50 on Upon a painted ocean
    alibe50 on And we’re off
    riverdaughter on Upon a painted ocean
    William on A Very Good Day
    William on A Very Good Day
    Beata on A Very Good Day
    Beata on A Very Good Day
    Beata on A Very Good Day
    MsMass on Upon a painted ocean
    William on Once More Into the Breach
    William on Upon a painted ocean
  • Categories

  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

    • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.
  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • Open Thread
      Use to discuss topics unrelated to recent posts. (No Ukraine, in other words.) Facebook Twitter WhatsApp LinkedIn
  • Top Posts

Owning up to it

Democrats today not only nominated Barack Obama but, they took a certain amount of glee about it. At least publicly. A few television personalities are worried about the “relationship” issues. But, that’s not going to be a problem (Howard Dean assured us.) THIS will be an issues campaign. And Barack Obama is flawless on the issues.

Or it’s resting on the back of the vanquished loser.

My sense is that this election isn’t resting on the “issues.” It’s resting on the Clintons. Apparently, they’ve got more to do if they’re going to successfully carry Barack Obama across the finish line. Speeches? The BEST speeches of the convention — that’s not good enough. We’ve seen their body language and they FAILED. They must do more.


Well, I don’t think they owe Barack Obama another God damn thing.

Did you notice the song they played as President Clinton finished his speech and left the stage? It was mentioned several times in the comments this evening but, myiq2xu said it best:

Playing “Addicted to Love” as the Big Dawg left the stage was the cheapest musical shot I’ve seen since they played “Glory Days” (they pass you by) during a Giants game at Candlestick as they were replacing Greg Minton as the pitcher.

That’s the kind of low blow you expect from the other side.

No respect.

[UPDATE] No UP all Night thread tonight so this is an Open Thread

309 Responses

  1. The Obots demand respect they haven’t earned, and don’t show respect that is owed.

    Bill Clinton deserves respect from Democrats at their own convention.

    He earned it.

  2. My party has been infested with petulant teenagers. And their Great Leader is the Little Snot in Chief.

    Problem is, middle america will decide this election, and they don’t like rude nasty little boys.

  3. I really want McCain to play “Return to Sender” the night he kicks Mr. signed sealed delivered’s ass.

  4. Charles, Thank very much. I was going to save this topic for tomorrow but myiq inspired me with his comment and I decided to do this instead of my Up All Night post. I don’t think any of us will need help being up all night tonight….

  5. “THIS will be an issues campaign.”

    Oh my god, my Obot father keeps complaining about how this campaign is too personal. Yes, it’s hard to fathom hat you nominate a candidate who stumbles over the most basic policy questions, you quite possibly end up with something other than WonkFest08. Go figure.

  6. (Nodding at myIQ)

  7. In August 2012, when Hillary walks out to give her acceptance speech, I want to hear Elton John singing “The Bitch is Back”

    As she leaves the stage, I want to hear Toby Keith singing “How Do You Like Me Now?”

  8. Oh!

    My next wife (Faith Hill) is on the teebee.

  9. Sorry “off topic”?
    What’s to gig about the “orange pantsuit??

  10. {{MyIQ2xu}}


    Me too.

  11. Katie- Terrific post, it actually made me feel better. :o)

    WMCB- Isn’t that the truth. I walk around all day saying ” this is crazy, are these people for real’? It is so hard to comprehend that this brat is running for POTUS and Dems are buying into him. I just cannot get it thru my head, at all!!! I used to say it about the 28% of die hard Shrubs, but never thought I would see it in my fellow Dems.

  12. I think I am still in shock that Hillary is not nominee this year.

  13. The Clintons have been running around the country saving the asses of these backstabbers for years now, Kennedy included. It’s enough already. She already tried to prevent Obama from losing the general, but they put him on the ticket anyway. There’s no more she can do.

  14. Charles:

    If you’re a Democrat, you pay respect to Democratic icons like FDR, HST, JFK, LBJ and WJC.

    If you’re a Republican, you pay respect to Reagan.

    Obama is confused as to which party he belongs to.

  15. Didn’t he campaign for Kerry the day after he got out of the hospital after his bypass?

  16. I am not a believer, but nice posts just the same.

    The cheap musical shot seemed like business as usual for the DNC.

    One big problem I had was with the global warming rubbish, it was very prominent in the speeches and none of the speakers cared a crap for the science.


    Socialism hasn’t worked for any other people’s why will it work here?

  17. Ya THINK??? Geez. The thing is, they promoted this man based on his “compelling” personality, life, persona, presence, exotic background.

    And now they bitch and moan that the campaign is all about personalities.

    Karma’s a bitch, fuckers. You made the choice to make it all about “Who is Barack Obama?” instead of about policy, experience, and deeds. And you are about to find out just how well the Republicans can answer that question for the voting public. It won’t be pretty.

  18. {{Charles}}

    I edited the post to make it an Open Thread (like they aren’t ALL open threads around here)

  19. Seriously, yep, BillClinton stepped out pale and thin from the hospital to stump for Kerry. People filled the streets for that man. He risked his health for John “Flip Flopper” Kerry, or as I like to think of him, Teresa’s husband.

  20. KB:

    Except at TL, all threads are open after 60 seconds

  21. (giggle) THAT is actually true. Isn’t it?

  22. WMCB, I could ALMOST overlook B0s lack of experience if I thought he had the intelligence to know what he didn’t know and actually respect the knowledge and experience of others (this is going to be a tough lesson for Biden to learn). His lack of experience added to his arrogance makes him soooo dangerous. btw, they say B0 will have soaring rhetoric tomorrow night but will bring it more down to earth with substance—-after he walks out on that greek/roman temple stage. Nothing they do will surprise me. We should be prepared for ANYTHING, I hope my belief that the Repugs will be is not misplaced

  23. Taylor Swift is singing “Picture to Burn”

    “As far as I’m concerned you’re just another picture to burn”

    That’s you, Barry!

  24. Regency, I kept thinking about that scene with Kerry and Bill after Kerry endorsed B0. payback is going to be quite entertaining to watch. I’m looking forward to after the election when Bill promised he will have more to say

  25. Oh, dear.

    I just remembered. Just as I was leaving the house to pick up Joaniebonie some guy who was nominating Barack said something about being a “lifelong Republican”

    Or did I dream it?

  26. Yeah, Teresa could do so much better. Imagine wasting your millions on Lurch.

  27. However, I like how she always makes it clear the ketchup guy was the love of her life. 🙂

  28. Larry King, rep from FL talking about the “annointed one” speaking at temple setting tomorrow

  29. KB: Yep. Thanks to the Republicans.

  30. Yep, I agree myiq2xu… I am a done dem,,,I was waiting for the dems to come to their senses during this convention and put Hillary back on top of the ticket but they failed.

    Now its all McCain, baby. In the infamous words of ABBA, “The Winner takes it All”!

  31. Seriously, you made me laugh out loud. Seriously. 😉

  32. Hi everyone,
    I felt heartbroken when I heard that the news that Obama was officially nominated and the delegates gave in without a fight. Even though I expected this to happen, I had some naive hopes that maybe I would witness a historic convention for the first time. Apparently Hillary did not deserve the same treatment as male candidates.

    Nevertheless, I hope that everyone here will continue fighting for the respect that Hillary and all women candidates deserve. This election opened my eyes to the sexism, classism, and hypocrisy in the party that is supposed to represent the poor and working class. Hillary is not the nominee, but because of the noise that her supporters and PUMAs made, more people got the chance to learn about these injustices. I can’t imagine the place we would be in if no one spoke up about the caucus frauds or pointed out the discrepancy between what Obama said and his actions. Hillary would just lose, without a fight or a word, and so will true democracy.

    I know there are many more people who do not trust Obama then we realize but do not talk about it because of the political climate. I’m so glad that not all Hillary supporters stayed silent. You are giving people like us courage. Thank you!

  33. Phala, that’s why he reminds me so much of Bush. He doesn’t know anything, yet he’s so arrogant. All the times Clinton cleaned his clock in debates, he could have decided he should maybe try to learn something about policy considering it’s a prerequisite for the Presidency, but he chooses to just slide and brazen it out by knowing none of his supporters care. Bush listens to Cheney supposedly, does BO listen to anybody?

  34. Anee:

    I can’t bring myself to vote for McCain. But I have that luxury.

    But I live in Big Smoggy, and if this state is in play, Uh-bama is in deep doo-doo elsewhere.

    I plan to vote 3rd party.

  35. But-but, I should edit better

  36. I think “no respect” sums up this whole primary. No respect for Senator Clinton, no respect for voters, no respect for women, no respect for all “57” states, no respect for President Bill Clinton, no respect for 18 million voices, no respect for democracy, no respect for honest journalism, no respect for the core of the Democratic Party, no respect for the rules, no respect for Hillary’s supporters, no respect for our nation, no respect for typical white bitter clingy undereducated blue collar senior hillbilly sweeties who will have to fall in line because “they have no choice”…


  37. Seriously:

    Have you ever noticed how big Lurch’s feet are?

    He must have some talent, after all.

  38. Me too, MyIQ. Living in Kansas I’ve got the same luxury. Of course if Obama’s “home state” advantage looks like it’s going to flip the state — then I WILL vote McCain.

  39. We’re so picky here.

  40. Regency, I’ve always loved your posts. LOL. Teresa’s husband. Did you see sour puss MEchelle sitting next to her new bff, Teresa? lol! Both will be sucking on lemons forever over their lost White House opportunities.

    Michelle looked like she was straining to take a painful dump when Bill was on and getting his never-ending ovation! lolol

    I signed up to help McCain today.

  41. I didn’t start off supporting Hillary (although now I’m not sure why) but if she had been beaten fair and square by a qualified Democrat I would “fall in line” and do the party unity thing.

    But Hillary wasn’t beaten fair and square, and the “winner” isn’t qualified.

  42. Ewwww! 🙂

    I think his talent comes more into play when he’s innocently falling into the laps of drunk college students.

  43. made my first donation to McCain tonight. Just $10 (payday isn;t till friday) but it felt good to say FU to the DNC farce/tragedy. I listed “Hillary Clinton: as the person who referred me.

    Anyone want to match me?

  44. MyIQ — me too. The proof is that I’ve done just that every election of my life. And I certainly expected to do it this year too.

    We are the ones even I didn’t expect!

  45. The way I look at it, how can there be party unity when there is no party? It kind of fell apart when obama went for the nuclear option. You don’t declare war on your own party and then fall back on party unity unless you’re really chicken&^%$. That’s why you need a backup plan.

  46. Seriously:

    Um, which Lurch are we talking about?

    I was thinking of the guy who said “You rang?” on “The Addams Family”

  47. Zee, Michelle just isn’t used to sitting next to so much class. It makes her feel inferior. Besides, she likes Hunts Mustard.

    Political wives are just so superior to their husbands these days. Teresa Heinz. Elizabeth Edwards by far. Michellle…eh. Hillary, woo-hooo. She set the bar and I am so proud of her.

    By the way, tell Bill to stop by my dorm tonight, mkay.

  48. Ohhhh…I thought you meant Kerry! I apologize to the other Lurch.

  49. That’s cute LAMusing. Hillary Clinton as the person who referred me. I may do that just to make a point. If enough of us sent in our little $10.00 with that reference, it would surely make news.

    As others have aptly said: I am most proud of the PUMAS who have tirelessly pointed out the problems with our system. If it wasn’t for the tough and vocal PUMA types, the general public would have just rolled right along with the coronation. Now, many are seeing the naked emperor.

  50. The Conflucians and most PUMAs are the people whoo were some of the hardcore Democratic base until we got thrown under the bus.

    As a liberal Democrat I never expected to get called a rac*st by members of my own party.

    I’ve also been called at Republican ratfucker because I supported another life-long Democrat who is the wife of the only two-term Democratic President since FDR.

    I saw her called a Republican too, and all of us called rac*sts.

    The Democratic party has gone insane

  51. LAMusing, I will join you but I will matich your donation and double it… Soetoro must be stopped and the DNC must be taught a lesson. McCain is not the evil one that the DNC has brainwashed us into thinking, he fought Bush on a number of issues including the War strategy. Like Bill said, the X and Y factor are in play now.

    Everyone must make their choice based on their on convictions, but what I saw today at the Convention makes me sick and motivates me more than ever to never support the Dems… All dem incumbents are out too, that means you Pelosi, Schiff,
    I am from CA in case you didn’t notice.

  52. Anee:

    I take it you’re new here.

    We don’t talk about Obama’s middle name or his stepfather’s last name around here.

    There are plenty of issues to discuss about Senator Obama without getting into that stuff.

    If you want to get into those other things, I suggest you try No Quarter.

  53. Someone mentioned in another thread that they put “Pelosi sent me” which gives a similar msg and can’t be used against Hillary—-Agree with the sentiment either way—B0 did more this week to help McCain than the Repugs will do all week next week at their convention

  54. OK, excuuuuuse me. I see this is a site that enjoys the same censorship as The Senator Obama.

    Exit stage left!!

  55. McCain will be my vote. I think. But—you know—its a long way to November. Maybe something will happen. Maybe we’ll have a different candidate somehow. What would happen now if Obama was shamed out or dropped dead? Would now Biden move up to the #1 spot and then choose a VP? Or would there be some other procedure?

    Of course Pelosi would be in ABSOLUTE CONTROL of choosing any alternate.

  56. Anee:

    Happy trails!

  57. I asked a PUMA friend today if she would be supporting BO if Hillary had never been in the contest and there had been no ‘you’re likable enough’, no race baiting on both Clintons, no hip-hop routine with the finger, no selection by the DNC.

    We both agreed we’d be exactly where we are today. It’s really not about Clinton, and even without the behavior of the DNC, I still could not support this man, just like I could not pull the lever for Nelson in Nebraska when he ran for Senate the first time against Hagel. I left it blank and to this day I know I made the right decision. Just because someone has a D behind their name doesn’t mean their worthy of my vote.

  58. They’ll never give it to her. What worries me is that what happens after the election if they try to hang on.

  59. Charles:

    It’s not even civility.

    Show me proof that Senator Obama was legally adopted by his stepfather, and explain to me how it is relevant to this election in some way, and I will be willing to discuss it.

    Otherwise it’s just bullshit for bigots,.

  60. @my
    the only one’s going insane is your like. you people don’t give up do you? Cry some more would you! You are no life long Dems, as most people on the Left have the capacity to get over things and not cry & complain about them for ever, like they even matter. You people will be whining about this for another 20 years, grow the Eff up!

  61. Regarding this being an “issues” campaign, I saw the biggest bunch of BS tonight on ABC news. It was a report on National Security. Apparently over 60% of those polled felt John McCain would be better on National Security as CIC. Obama polled 29%. Then they played part of an interview they did with BO in 2004 after he gave his keynote speech at the convention. BO was talking about John Kerry’s national security experience and they were trying to pass it off as an example of BO’s national security experience! I guess they are going to replay the interview tonight on Nightline. It was a FARCE. But then again that’s what passes for news in the MSM.

  62. Hans, if Hillary had won and Obama had been cheated out of his rightful candidacy, would you have come over to rally behind Hillary?

  63. KB:

    We have a poopie pants! Diaper change please

  64. (meaning if Howard, Donna, etc. try to stick around and keep control of the party machinery)

  65. Interesting, isn’t it?

    I tell “Anee” that certain topics are not welcome here, and s/he leaves, and a rude troll shows up.


    Please don’t feed the troll

  66. LOL Karolina, the chorus at kos “I will never, ever, ever, ever vote for that woman” started the day after Kerry lost.

    But if you don’t like whining, well you’ve certainly found a soulmate in Barack Obama! ‘not one to hold grudges or gin up resentments.

  67. Hans, Why are you here? Why do you even care about what we think? It’s clear we have no intention of either “giving up” or “growing up.” It’s because unlike you, we are ALREADY grown up and we have made up our minds about Obama. We have principles and backbones and we don’t fall for the latest cult figure. We don’t support Obama and we WILL NOT vote for him. So if you don’t like it, grow up, act mature and get out.

  68. Even a $1 donation to McCain with either “Hillary Clinton” or “The DNC” as the person who referred you will make a point about our reaction to the unity farce.

    How many of our DNC leadership made remarks about how all the bitter menopausal women with hurt feelings would “fall in line” because they “have no choice”

    NO CHOICE??? Really?

  69. Charles and M,
    You guys are so special and above it all aren’t you? You are a prime example of cutting your nose off to spite your face… How is calling him Soetoro uncivil, its on his school records, written by his step-father.

    You need me and everyone of us who still supports Hillary and believes we need to stop Soetoro/Obama or whatever his name is. Insulting me makes you like the people we fighting against.

  70. please don’t feed the trolls by giving them attention.

    Our policy is to delete their comments, or if we are bored, to edit them for our amusement.

    Give our site adminstrators time to work, and if they don’t vanish you’ll see the trolls proudly proclaiming things like:

    “I made poopie in my pants”

  71. Ugh, I also just remembered the RFK thing.

    I really, really hope this is the absolute last thing Bill does for this campaign.

  72. Phala
    They will blame anything they want to on Hillary, regardless of it having no basis in reality. They have for months. Going into the convention it became her responsibility to make him palatable. WTH? Did Kennedy have to do that?
    So it will remain :hillary’s fault” and we remain “unreasonable bitter Clinton supporters” who won’t “grow up”
    So what? I’m over trying to “please or appease” anyone in the DNC or the MSM. The DNC will continue to refuse to listen… unless they LOSE. The MSM will continue to refuse to listen unless people like Matthews LOSE their jobs.
    So we have lots of work to do before November. 🙂

  73. Myiq, sorry about feeding the troll but it seemed so needy and lost, I couldn’t resist trying to give it a morsel to knock it out of its stupor for a moment. I will try to ignore them in the future—but they are so pathetic that I feel sorry for them.

    Seriously—I intuitively knew that. They are absolute hypocrits, so they fit right in with Brazile, Pelosi, et al.

  74. myiq2xu, on August 28th, 2008 at 1:33 am

    hahahhahahaha! love it

  75. myiq2xu, I like that one, but much prefer “I am sucking on my Binky”

    I have to go get some sleep – have to be up in 6 hours to be mom-taxi.

    Night all. When you hear the dogs, keep going.

  76. Actually, I’ve kind of noticed that the trolls tend to go away if you talk to them, since they always try to come in when they think no one is here and post on dead threads and so on.

  77. Ehhhh….I fear backsliding and loss of resolve. There were a lot of hard core Dems I spoke to today who were excited about the kay bailey rumors.

  78. Let’s assume the “worst”: Senator Obama was adopted by his step-father and attended a muslim madrassa when he was a young boy.

    He is still a US citizen.

    That means he is legally qualified to be President (his religion is irrelevant anyway)

    So what is the point of making reference to his middle name or his step-father’s name?


    And bigotry is not welcome here.

  79. I donated this evening to Johnny Mac. For the spot for who referred you I put The Confluence. 😉

    I loved tonight when the crowd just would not stop cheering on the Big Dawg. It didn’t look like M.O. was too happy though.

    Also, as someone upthread said, I can’t wait until Jan. when the Big Dawg sits down with a reporter as he promised to do.

    I tell ya, between tonight in Denver and Gustav lurking in the Caribbean, I’ve been mainlining peanut butter M&Ms! 😆

  80. Night all!

  81. Great observation from a poster at bitterpoliticz:

    The elaborate stage for Obama is going to be a huge mistake. No candidate has ever received this kind of treatment and there is no reason why Obama should either.

    In this economy for Obama to spend 6M for a temporary stage is a disgrace. Obama spent two weeks talking about McCain’s houses and then turns around and does something bozo like this. Depending on the region of the country that money would buy 12 to 30 homes

  82. myiq, ack! Tell us what you think about pawlenty and Ridge before you go, please!

  83. Ok, now talk amongst yourselves…

  84. No one answered my questions earlier—or do you not know?
    What would happen now if Obama was shamed out or dropped dead? Would now Biden move up to the #1 spot and then choose a VP? Or would there be some other procedure?

  85. Anee:

    No one told you to leave

  86. I don’t know Karolina, but they wouldn’t give it to her, that’s for sure. Until the election is over and they get ousted, it’s not going to happen.

  87. LAMusing, I agree that the blame is always there and we have LOTS of work to do. I don’t think I will have the luxury here of leaving the Pres choice blank or third party so will do all possible to make sure that DNC and B0 have to take some responsibility for their actions. I have no delusions that if Hillary chooses to run in 2012 (and I am counting on her doing so) that she will again have more battles to fight than other candidates.

    One of the things I love about this site is that we can freely vent our feelings. If my comment , implied any criticism, I apologize. My thought was that I will have to vote for McCain because of actions of DNC and Pelosi and therefore reference to other post

  88. Seriously:

    I don’t think about Pawlenty or Ridge.


  89. Karolina, I don’t think there’s anything in the DNC rules to cover that.

    Obama won’t be shamed. That’s not an emotion he has.

  90. Karolina
    I have no idea what would happen if BO dropped out. If edwards had been the nominee and then the whole affair and baby debacle was exposed, I’m sure he would have been forced out – but I don’t know what they would do next.

    .. Biden was not the nominee… would Hillary as “2nd choice” be put in place? Or would all the Dem’s that ran be in the mix (Edwards, Judas, etc) Hmmm…

  91. Bullshit for bigots!

    Well said.

  92. I have only one word for the Democratic Party primary process: Democrazy.

  93. If something happened to the Democratic Nominee, the DNC has the power to replace the Presidential and/or VP nominees.

    That’s what happened when Thomas Eagleton resigned as VP nominee and Maria Shriver’s dad was appointed to replace him in 1972

  94. DiMockCrazy

  95. Well, if he picks one of them, you’re going to have to, young man! *taps ruler*

  96. Hello friends….just getting to my computer after hours of watching Fox I went to Hillary’s site and donated a bit more to help with her debt…I’ve been wearing my black Hillary t-shirt all day….I sent John McCain a small donation the other day to get an Obama tire guage….that felt so totally weird. Anyway I wanted to tell you that after Hillary’s speech, my very level-headed, moderate Republican husband stated that he was now a 100% Hillary supporter…then tonight, he stated that he was going to donate to PumaPac.

    (This is incredibly shocking because in the past, the national elections every 4 years caused us to hardly speak for months – Gore Vs Bush was the worst. I have to say it is lovely to be on the same side.)

    But, back to the spouse, and as I have said before, he can’t be alone. Do not dispair that Obama will win in November.

    I hold such deep regard for my friends here and RD in Denver…sleep well. Tomorrow we start with the new plans our Puma leaders have for us.

    Oh, isn’t Nancy Pelosi the worst…I am shocked at the depth of anger I have for her…she had some nice clothes on this week (however, someone should tell her that she needs – as they used to say – a better ‘foundation’…ha.!)

  97. I think you mis-interpreted me, calling him Soetoro was not a statement intended to imply bigotry on my part, it was only to under-score the lies that Barry has told to the American people. HE is the one who denied his family’s religion and roots not me.
    I would wholeheartedly vote for a Muslim or Jew or Catholic or Protestant as long as they didn’t lie and turn their backs on their people and/or religion, inorder to win a presidential election.

  98. myiq: Can they do that? I recall now Eagleton was replaced but was too young to pay any attention. So it does fall to the Committee to just pick one?

  99. LA Musing, if they got to pick it’d probably be Pelosi or Dean. They’re not really confined by any adherance to rules or propriety.

  100. Don’t get me wrong…I am still 100% Democrat.

  101. Regency:

    Like I said, show me evidence that he was adopted.

    Don’t speculate, show proof.

    My mom remarried in 1965 (Obama’s mom in 1966) and I was enrolled in kindergarten under my step-father’s last name, even though I was never adopted.

    But Anee wasn’t doing that. Anee was just using Obama’s step-father’s last name.

    That’s not how we roll here.

  102. Fredster, I agree Obama doesn’t seem to have ANY morals or ethics that he believes he has to live up to.

    But, er, you DID understand that I meant that the scandals and inadequacy that McCain is going to reveal is going to be monumental? He might not even be born in the US and to a minor—disqualifying him from POTUS.

    Anyway, there’s always the chance that he’ll drop dead. Then what?

    (I know that sounds crass. It’s intentional—eases the anger.)

  103. re: replacement—well, we have seen how well they follow the RULZ if there is one for such a circumstance. I am sure the assumption that a candidate would be vetted BEFORE being nominated.

    The repub artillary will now be coming out

  104. I haven’t gotten an email receipt yet from McCain’s site, but when it arrives I will be sure to forward it to Howard Dean as my response to the CONvention

  105. I’m not speculating. I’m defending someone. She assumed it was a well-discussed topic and since we call him so many names other than the one that was used, that it wasn’t a problem.

    Look, I’m not about to fight about this with you, I’m just defending someone who I believe meant no harm.

    I’m done. I said what I intended to.

  106. LAMusing, that is a great idea

  107. Eagleton resigned, so IIRC the DNC met and agreed on Shriver.

    I assume it’s the same procedure if a candidate died.

    I don’t know how they could replace a nominee that refused to resign if they were indicted or some other major problem arose.

  108. http://sugarnspice.typepad.com/

    Sugar’s blog entry made me laugh–and this was a gloomy, gloomy day.

  109. Thanks Regency, you get me, seriously, I mean that.

  110. Religion is a private thing. I don’t think it’s fair to say he turned his back on his religion, regardless. People convert, kids get taken to the religious institution of their parents’ choice, not theirs. That kind of thing is between he and his family.

  111. Karolina, I don’t know. Unless he were indicted or something I don’t see him leaving the stage, so-to-speak. And I bet Pelosi, Dean et al would spin all they could to talk down any problems.

    If Obama did *leave* would Biden be elevated to the Prez candidate and then fill the veep slot? Boy, that would be his wet dream! 🙄

  112. Biden got 9500 votes this primary, he’s a loser already. Now let’s make it national.

  113. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that something disturbing enough to force BO out will come out. But he survived Wright, so it would have to be plenty big.
    I’m going on the assumption the DNC will do anything they have to do to keep him as the nominee – they have made their beds and have cut off any possible backtracking. They keep saying we would have NO CHOICE but to fall in line. I am not a sheep. PUMA is not a sheep.
    They are finally getting worried, but are now deluding themselves that the CONvention fixed everything. See Hill and Bill support BO, so you have to too! Uh, no I don’t.
    More than ever, now is the time to roar loudly! PUMA PUMA PUMA!

  114. Well Regency he’s a loser twice (88?). Didn’t stop Obama from pickin’ him!

  115. Regency:

    We call him names, but there are certain ones we don’t use.

    Look at my original response to Anee, all I did was politely explain that fact.

    If you want to discuss whether or not he was adopted, fine, but tread carefully. We’re not bigots, and don’t want to be labled as such.

    The Confluence does not tolerate bigotry or any kind.

  116. hey guys – Tom says Obama is America. Shit, I forgot. And isn’t that how President Biuden introduced him?

  117. LA: If that happened, the Dems would really go down the drain. It would show how pathetic Obama’s selection was.

    McCain could skip into the White House.

  118. I’m going offline

    Goodnight all!

  119. LOL regency

  120. They wouldn’t go with biden, though, Thy’d install someone else who didn’t even run, looking really hacktacular but they do not care.

  121. Lord, Biden as candidate. We. Are. Ruined.

    Hillary sometime soon, Gods, please!

  122. Seriously, gee, I wonder if Jim Leach is free? What about Bob Casey?

    We are not the Party I remember.

  123. I will only comment to the extent that if there is anything in the passport records of Hillary, B0, and McCain that were illegally searched in the spring, we can be sure it will come out with the other ammunition at the time most advantageous to the repugs.

  124. Regency, is Jim Leach a dem?

  125. Phala: Is Obama?

  126. He doesn’t have enough of a record to tell but doubtful.

  127. Casey? Uh-uh. On the wrong side of the choice issue.

  128. Obama spent two weeks talking about McCain’s houses and then turns around and does something bozo like this.

    Hmm. Yes, I wonder how much McCain’s houses cost compared to the stage and all for this thing. In any case I keep thinking it does not look good to be so lavish when so many people are hurting in this economy. Surely they didn’t need all those video screens and that giant podium.

    Hillary would’ve easily defeated McCain the same way Bill defeated Dole. 😦

  129. Fredster: We’re opening up the doors on liberal issues, don’t ya know? Bob Casey is a choice. You don’t even actually have to be a Democrat anymore to choose the Democratic nominee. Gee whiz.

    But seriously, I have no idea who they would pick in that eventuality. I just know they’d work damn hard to keep it from being Hillary.

  130. watching a news conference on s-span where they are discussing B0 not being prepared to be CIC and Guiliani said he didn’t agree with Hillary on issues but she is prepared to be CIC

  131. I’m amazed Obama didn’t pick, Casey actually. They’re boh tall, skinny, gaping idiots, we’d really be showing the world the best we have to offer. We’re deep, man.

    I know!!!! Ken Starr, the perfect choice.

  132. Phala
    I just saw your response post above (don’t know how I missed it) OH NO NO NO – I never took what you said as criticism! I know everyone here (except Tom who poopied in his pants), regardless of differences in POV’s about specifics, are, at the core, bound together in purpose –

    NO BO!
    NO WAY!

  133. Phala: Well, great. Now they start sweet talking her. Somewhere over Africa, Bill is turning the sky even bluer.

  134. Regency, unfortunately I agree and I think the repugs would wait until the dems couldn’t recover no matter who the choice was and it would damage the party for a long time because the candidate was not vetted

  135. There is no bigger F you.

  136. Regency – Is Obama?


    wait – that’s not funny, is it!

  137. As long as the repugs don’t have to run against her, they like her fine—tells you just how stupid the DNC is–not to put forward the candidate with the most votes who the opposition is the most scared of

  138. 8 years ago I was ten years old and I bitched about Florida. Four years ago I was 14 years old and I bitched about Ohio. This year I’m 18 years old and I’m bitching about the whole damned country.

    Yeah, times goes by, but bullshit never changes.

  139. Oh it’s funny, unfortunately it’s also a good point.

  140. That was profound. There’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans, so vote Democrat.

    You have a great future in Hallmark’s Inane Division.

  141. # Regency, on August 28th, 2008 at 2:26 am Said:

    Fredster: We’re opening up the doors on liberal issues, don’t ya know? Bob Casey is a choice. You don’t even actually have to be a Democrat anymore to choose the Democratic nominee. Gee whiz.

    But seriously, I have no idea who they would pick in that eventuality. I just know they’d work damn hard to keep it from being Hillary.

    I was struggling to come up with the right words for the pro-choice issue and didn’t know what to use

    You’re right about the other; it would never be Hillary; not with the current crowd in power. shudder I hate to say *if* Obama loses in November, but if he does, I wonder what the repercussions in the DNC will be? Complete housecleaning? What about the Congressional leadership too? I’d love to see Pelosi thrown out of the Speaker’s chair.

  142. We are dealing with the stark reality of our governing system and my father did almost die protecting my right to vote so I can leave this country in BETTER shape for my children and grandchildren

  143. Violet thinks I should move to Canada. But instead, I’m moving to my bed.
    Night all – bitter sweet dreams!

  144. admin. response above was to comment that may need to be editted along with my response but my buttons were pushed


  146. LAMusing, thank you for your reply. Wishing you dreams of the better future we are all working for, friend.

  147. Shit! I didn’t close an italic 😳

    Maybe I need more peanut butter M&Ms.

  148. Good night, LAMusing.

  149. Fredster, that’s what I’m concerned about. Who has teh power to remove the DNC chair? I can see these hacks refusing to budge and continuing to game the system for the forseeable future.

  150. How about when Bill Clinton came on stage and the song they played was “Don’t stop thinking about tomorrow” and continues by saying “Yesterday’s gone…Yesterday’s gone” I think that was a cheap shot.

  151. To Violet…

    Vote Dem – They are less evil….

    Gotta tell ya, as a campaign slogan it’s not doing a thing for me.

    Where was I eight years ago? In the Navy protecting your right to free speech.

    While I somewhat understand your frustration at seeing the Dems lose another election I think that you’re yelling at the wrong folk. You really need to yell at Dean, Nancy and Donna B. If they hadn’t have rigged the election and just let it play out naturally then we wouldn’t be having this discussion, if you can call it that. But seeing as we have a Democratic Congress and Senate who theoretically will stop most of the abuses that you’ve just listed I’m not going to reward the DNC for their illegal and thuggish behavior.

  152. Obviously, after a losing election most people would go voluntarily, but it’s not like they care about winning or the party or the future or teh country, so if they want to hang around and deliberately screw things up…what?

  153. Well, here’s another possibility for why Obama might have an “accident” —what if a real, huge war broke out somewhere? Do you really think that Repugs would allow Obama, an untested entity, a grenade with a lose pin, to have control of the nukes? I think that he would suddenly have some unfortunate situation.

  154. Don’t Stop Believing is Bill’s ’92 campaign song. No slight there, just nostalgia.

  155. Seriously…I guess it would take the entire DNC to remove the Chairman, unless Howard had the good grace to step down; just don’t know. I don’t know how you’d purge the entire DNC leadership.

    As for Pelosi all it takes is the Dem members of the House to vote her out as Speaker. The Dem congressfolks choose their leader at the start of each (I think) 2 year session. I’d love to see the Blue Dog Dems and the other moderates just say “Hey you got the party in this mess and now it’s time to pay the piper.”

  156. I think lisa was being sarcastic

  157. Fredster, I was told by a super delegate that the next candidate (B0) would choose the next chairman of the party and that he did not vote for Dean until he was the last candidate standing. Along with the other plans I read at PUMA pac site, we need to become informed of how the leadership is chosen and when so we can use what we have learned over the last three months to impact those choices.

    I may keep my dem party registration until after that hoping that a dem voting for mccain will impact someone’s calculations and so if possible I can have some say in that leadership choice until a viable third party comes into being. I think Hillary strengthened her hand and voice in that choice this week. A lot of what happened this year was the result of Dean defeating the Clinton’s choice for dem chair, IMO.

  158. I don’t really see the Blue Dogs doing a better job of being vertebrates. The problem goes way beyond Pelosi.

  159. “So what is the point of making reference to his middle name or his step-father’s name?


    With all due respect, I have never understood the idea that it’s “bigotry” to refer to someone’s given middle name, whether it be Hussein, Adolf, Muammar or Kim. It IS bigotry to imply that a man’s name–a name that’s on the birth certificate that he posted to the world online without having been blacked out–is something to be ashamed of because of its possible connotations. Same goes for the whole “Don’t call me Muslim!” idea; don’t imply that being Muslim is bad by distancing yourself from it (it only reinforces peoples’ fears).

    The only bigotry that comes from Obama’s middle name is that he was named after his father and his paternal grandfather Hussein; the same grandpa Hussein Obama who did not approve of Barack Sr.’s and Stanley Ann’s marriage because he didn’t want Obama blood “sullied by a white woman” (and before you go off on me, this is written in Obama’s own words in his own book, Dreams from My Father, page 126 of the paperback copy I have right in front of me). Grandpa Hussein Obama was a bigoted purist himself, yet Obama Jr. never addresses that in the rest of the passage. Instead he paints his poor mother as a white woman with a fetish for black men (it is SAD to read and disturbing to see all of Obama’s suspicions regarding his mother in this book!) and then goes off on his own “blue eyed devil” moment (that’s what I call it, at least that’s what I saw when I read it) as he ridicules an AA friend’s decision to wear blue eye contacts (pages 192 to 195) and then goes on and on and on about black self-esteem/how wrong it seemed to him that a black person would want to wear blue eye contacts.

    Again, with all due respect, this well-meaning “civility” that is in the above comments is misplaced and with all the things Obama has done to Hillary AND the Democratic Party in the span of less than a year, he is undeserving of even the slightest (if it WAS uncivil to say his entire name, which I don’t believe it is). If this were me and I were named Hussein, I’d mourn the fact that I share it with some unsavories, but I’d own it and defend it, and I’d eschew those who would think that it would be uncivil to mention it.

    Just my two cents, even if it isn’t popular around here. :\

  160. If the Reps are ever that worried, they’ll just have him arrested. That simple. They’re not stupid and they aren’t conspiracists as a general rule. Even they do not revere the idea of Club Fed. They will either reveal something illegal or make something up.

    I am no longer speaking ill of Republicans in that sense. I don’t approve of it, but it works. They win and the country is the worse for it, but that’s what they’d do if it came to him being what they considered a real danger. Nothing “unfortunate.”

  161. Yeah, Bo already told Dean he can stay because he’s doing such a swell job. I don’t know what happens after BO loses.

  162. Phala, BO as well as being the Dem nominee is also the “head” of the party now too. Now if BO loses the general does he still retain titular head of the party status? (shaking head) I just don’t know.

    A lot of this is new to me because I was previously a fed. employee and we can’t get into too much in partisan politics other than having yard signs, making a donation and stuff. I never knew all the particulars of the Hatch Act which covers this and didn’t want to find out the hard way by violating some aspect of that. That’s why this has been really enjoyable for me to participate this much.

  163. Violet’s a wee bit scared, no? Anyone who commands someone to “Don’t ruin it!!!” is running scared.

  164. Seriiously: We’ll we gotta find someone who”s got b@lls and a backbone.

  165. Seriously: We’ll we gotta find someone who”s got b@lls and a backbone.

  166. (sigh) Think I will run over to Wal-Mart for some comfort food: more M&Ms and a Stouffer’s Cheddar Bake Potato. Those Stouffer things are soooo good. The container says it’s for 2. Yeah rite! I zap it and wolf down the whole thing!!

  167. I really don’t think BO retains that status, Kerry sure doesn’t. Of course, the difference is BO might TRY to stay in control of the party, and there are very many people in the Establishment he can turn to for help. Anyone who tried to fight him would have very little Establishment support, and we all saw how much power hacks have if they choose to put their fingers on the scales.

  168. No, Kerry was just a spoiler this time. (asshole)

  169. I didn’t sleep much last night. All of a sudden, I am exhausted. Hope to fall asleep as soon as I hit the mattress, and not wake up until the morning.

    Sweet dreams, everyone!

  170. I think what few Hillary supporter or at least objective commentators for Hillary there were at MSNBC seem to be getting into hot water. Where is Dan Abrams? Pat Buch’s getting into it with crazy Maddow. Joe Scar’s about had it up to HERE with everybody. Interesting days at MSNBC.

  171. nite, all. going for munchies!

  172. Phew. Had to take a break from TL. I respect Jeralyn, but with so many media pooh-bahs in her hometown of Denver, she has starts in her eyes, and she seems to be hitting the Kool-Aid. Her choice, of course.

  173. Good night, Karolina.

  174. Fredster, I don’t have your legitimate reason for not having the information. I have always been interested in politics and remember there was a heated race for DNC chair and that Dean campaigned hard for it after losing the nomination using his “50 state strategy” as his strength.

    Seriously, did Dean agree to stay. When is his term of office up? I also want to know how the other woman (not Brazille) that has had so much power at DNC got her position and is it an appointment position.

    So much to learn so much to do

  175. Sweet dreams, Karolina!

  176. Night, Fredster. Enjoy the munchies!

  177. ‘Night, Fredster.

  178. Last comment: I hope Joe S walks off and gets another show someplace else.

    Yesterday (now) a.m. I saw him and Mika talking about Hillary’s speech. Mika was making those same faces that M.O. did. I wanted to bitch-slap her so hard!!

  179. Yeah, nobody regarded him as head of the party, but that might have been because Dean had a power base and they were jockeying. If they won’t give up and move out, I think it could be a real problem since they have so much power and control now.

  180. It’s only 12 midnight here in Cali, who all’s left in the room – or am I talking to myself?

  181. Mika has permanent bitch!face and that isn’t an insult to her appearance because she’s an attractive woman otherwise.

  182. Phala, yeah, he agreed to stay. I don’t know what his term is, but they acted like it was totally up to Obama to retain or remove him. I think Brazille was chosen by Dean.,

  183. I’m here but I’m headed over to BravoTv.com to read Tim Gunn’s blog. College is not conducive to being a faithful Project Runway watcher.

  184. Leela, still here. How are you. I had insomnia for a couple of nights and overslept today so am up tonight again

  185. Regency, I like Runway, too. Interesting and creative types

  186. Tim Gunn said that Michelle wins the style war with Cindy, hands down.

  187. I want to find where they recorded the votes for the nomination and if there is anywhere where the superdelegates votes were recorded. First step to accountability and making sure that the votes in primaries were reflected in the vote. When Hillay called for roll call to stop she said and “all votes to be counted” first which I took to mean that the votes collected earlier would be recorded

  188. Tim, I am not responding well to this.

  189. Seriously and Regency, I don’t want to be snarky about another woman and her style but what did you think of the lacy, ruffled girlish number Michelle wore last night? Tuesday night

  190. LOL He said Cindy looks like she’s duct taped.

  191. Phala: Didn’t see it. I actually haven’t watched any of this travesty firsthand but for a few minutes of Hillary and her tribute video. That’s all.

    Besides, style is fair game. Looks are sort of on the shady side but fashion sense is open season. God knows it was on Hillary.

  192. Popped back on to add this:
    Anyone want to respond to “Clinton Outshines Sulking Supporters”?

    The author is a woman. Part of what she said:
    “Sure it’s awful when it doesn’t go your way. The closer the loss, the more it hurts. But men have been losing for years without behaving like toddlers threatening to take their toys and go home if they don’t have their way”


  193. I only saw her sitting down, was it one of those high collared, sleeveless ruffled lacy things?

  194. To me it looked like an attempt to be “soft and feminine”. small ruffle around scooped neckline, piping around a “yolk” and on tv it looked like a lacy soft yellow material. just looked out of place to me and caught my attention since I know they are trying to work on her “image”

  195. something I would imagine at an afternoon tea with hat and gloves

  196. Some people are too stupid to live. Others are simply too dumb to be published–and yet somehow they are.

  197. LAMusing, Margaret Carlson!!!!!!!! I actually used to like her commentary when she was on crossfire. what is her beef with the Clintons???? She has been one of the worst this whole election.

  198. Yeah, the Reagan Democrats defined party loyalty. The difference is, nobody thinks that men’s votes are owned. They can vote for whoever they like, and it’s the party;s job to woo them. But we’re the handmaidens, our job is to do he grunt work and then smile while we get thrown under the bus, or we’re being selfish by representing our own interests. party first for the little mommies,

    When teh R Dems took their votes and went home, both parties spent the next two decades wooing them. And nobody ever acted like they owed anyone anything. It’s called an egregious double standard. Well, you can be the Misogyny Party, but here’s a thought–demand votes from misogynists, the ones who are getting something back instead of stabbed in teh back.

  199. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/28/fashion/28parties.html

    NYT style section finds the parties in Denver fairly grim.

  200. I am struck by the fact that every Obamacan who posts here is unable to articulate a viewpoint without calling people with different viewpoints nasty names. Of course this type of ignorant bullying behavior has been evident throughout Obama’s campaign, particularly at the caucus events. We don’t need another thug in the Whitehouse after the last eight with GWB, and a thug mentality will not give voice to the better impulses of this Country.

  201. If anyone would like to come over to BlueLyon and help me out, I’ve got my own special group of Obamacons tonight. They’ve come out of the woodwork.


  202. “What I don’t understand is the need to vilify the winner on the part of the loser.”

    Okay, sorry. Obama ran the most beautiful campaign ever, from falsely accusing his opponent of trying to assassinate him, to giving her the and wiping the dirt off his shoulder, from blaming Clinton for the poor economy and villifying his administration while lauding Reagan to falsely accusing him of racism. Bill and Hill and all of us should be thanking him for running such a unifying down and dirty disgusting campaign. Disnenfrachising states? Hey, we have too many anyway, we need to cull the herd. Its a sad day when a man is held responsible for his own actions and can’t use Rovian tactics without being praised for it. And in our bizarro world, playing songs like 99 Problems and Addicted to love aren’t cheezy, nasty frat boy cheap shots, they’re sweet love songs.

    Happy now?

  203. stryman, I am going to assume that you are sincere so I will respond. I carefully considered my vote and would NOT have voted for a woman if she was not qualified.I carefully considered Senator Obama because I look forward to being able to vote for a candidate that will break the racial barriers to the oval office. I chose not to vote for Senator Obama for the same reason I did not support Edwards four years ago. I did not think he had the experience to deal with the problems of the nation. I decided on Senator Clinton because she had the experience and the solutions this country needs. The more I learned about Senator Obama the more concerned I became about the choice I would have to make if Senator Clinton did not win the nomination. I cannot vote for Senator Obama anymore than I could have voted for Pat Robertson when he ran. Since I was told my vote was not needed to win, I will let the party do just that.

  204. Marirel, what you said exactly! *Shrug* Maybe they’ve just realized that they can’t win without us. Sucks to be them.

  205. Stryman–you’re skating perilously close to being patronizing. Don’t you even start about the difference between women and little girls. Women have a hell of a harder punch than little girls and aren’t afraid to use it.

  206. Ah! Why is spammy catching my snark?????? Everybody’s a critic.

  207. “Stryman–you’re skating perilously close to being patronizing”

    Perilously close? Man, would he have to do to hit the target?

  208. I’ve had it with these no-nut trolls today. Where were all of you before today? Thinking that now you’re covered? Fools. The difference between women and little girls, indeed! Fairy tales–that’s the difference. Little girls believe them, women put them back up on the bookshelf. Guess which one YOU are.

  209. Honestly, though, I think we should give the trolls some love. As much of an asshole as Obama is, it’s really his followers who are going to ensure he’s going to lose. The more people see of them, the better.

  210. Seriously, I agree when I compare these “visitors” with the delegate who spoke so eloquently last night about her vote for Senator Clinton I know I am in the right place with the group of people I want to be associated with because I believe that you are known by the company you keep.

  211. Well I’m glad SOMEBODY could give a troll some love. I couldn’t be anymore nauseous than I already am, but the troll lovin’ would send me right into the dry heaves.

  212. Obam is spending 6 million dollars on this fake Greek temple thing?

    Can that possibly be right?

  213. Irlandese, what is amazing that they think that we did not think before we voted so that they can either insult us or reason us out of our convictions. That I find insulting

  214. Seriously, but he gets a new McCain ad as a bonus. Never mind they can just replay the Paris Hilton one

  215. Phala, it’s not just online, either. People are really bemused and scared by the Obots’ behavior.

  216. Wonder how all those “small donors” feel about that or was it corp?orate donors

  217. LOL That’s okay, I’ll put your name on the card. 🙂

  218. Who else has heard about this Greek-temple set and thought of the Stonehenge set in “This Is Spinal Tap”?

    Thursday night just might bring us Plastic Jesus’s “Dukakis-in-a-tank” moment. 🙂

  219. “Hey Obama, you just complained that John McCain is an out of ouch elitist who doesn’t know how many houses he owns. What are you going to do now? Really? Nu uh, that’s a joke, right? So not go build houses in NOLA with Habitat, then?”

  220. I wish I had a link for this but I don’t. Anyway, Hillary apparently said some time ago at a dinner with Terry Mac that this “is not the Democratic Party she knew.”

    I think we can safely say, she’s got that one right.

  221. He’s even got a lift to carry him to the stage, we’re thinking laser show, shark tank, vegas.

  222. Okay, that makes me sad.

    And it makes me sadder that she’s falling on her sword for this shell of a party.

  223. You’ll be happy to know that I’ve got a couple of posts coming up about all this. One about the Kennedy legacy and another about how Hillary is clearly God and how several people need to repent.,

    At least one of those is satire on a college budget. Thanks, SM!!!

  224. LOL

    It;s the one about the Kennedy legacy that’s satire, right? Because clearly there’s some serious repenting that needs to be happening.

    Here or at your blog?

  225. Go to your room and get to sleep!

  226. Seriously, the Kennedy one takes as serious a look as I’m capable of taking at the BO is JFK/RFK scenario and finding that Hillary simply better fills the mold. The other one is pure sarcasm, slathered in cream cheese. Hillary is God because she can do everything, but win.

    They’re not ready for posting yet, but maybe at least one by tomorrow afternoon. They will be here and at my blogs once they’re ready It’s 3 am and there’s a crisis. My bed is ringing. Who do I trust to answer?

  227. Carol: I’m in my dorm, sitting on my bed right now. And yes I’m going to sleep.

    Good night, my friends. I’ts been supercalifragilisticexpialadocious!

  228. *shamefaced* Usually there’s almost no one here at this time of night besides trolls. It was just so nice to see people….

  229. Seriously, do not be ashamed. You just wander while everyone slumbers. No shame in that. It’s just life.


  230. It’s not the Democratic Party I knew.

    Obam is spending 6 million dollars on this fake Greek temple thing?

    Well, he’s got no business complaining about McCain’s houses or painting McCain as being rich and out of touch, if he thinks it’s a good idea to waste 6 million dollars building a temple in a football stadium. He had a perfectly glamorous American Idol stage in a giant arena full of flashing lights, all set up and ready to go. But it wasn’t good enough.

    Why should I be surprised. I guess all of us who don’t fall in line aren’t good enough to vote for him anyway. Maybe the whole point of all this crap, the phony Great Seal of Obama and the phony White House temple they’re building, were demands that people just went along with because they knew it’s the closest he’d ever get to being President. But lord, I’m afraid he’s going to humiliate the party enough to see us driven off into the wilderness for another couple of decades.

  231. Regency–I’ll have to stay away from your Kennedy posts. I go too far with my aversion to Ted and RD threw off one of my more heated remarks about him. I don’t want to get thrown off again (once is humiliating enough) so I am going to just lurk. I know I’ll love it anyway.

  232. Night!

  233. Ok, confession time. I’m in eastern time zone but my sleep schedule is totally whacked this week. It’s fun to talk to those on the other side of the country. Seriously, are you west coast?

  234. i may the only one still up?

  235. Regency, is that photo on your blog from Hillary’s concession speech? 😦 I was there. It was such a beautiful day outside. I’ve never cried in public like that in my life.

  236. I’m in BF eastern Oregon. I’m still too riled up to go to sleep. I’m going to hate life at work this AM. Will need extra shot in venti mocha.

  237. I was impressed when I saw photos of the Puma Den, and of the people who were there.

    As long as the idea was floating out there that Pumas were effete, well heeled NY feminists no-one really worried. Been there-done that-right?

    But this time Pumas are overwhelmingly working class, and middle aged women.

    People who generally have always gone along with the Party line.

    Women whose kids go into the army-because they can’t find work anywhere else.

    People who have been written off by Donna B and their Party as Jack and Jill six-packs; and by the Obama camp as racists.

    No wonder the Party is worried.
    These people aren’t easily swayed, they vote the way their family has always voted-but when they move they’re Ents.

  238. One day I am going to make a trip to Oregon and Washington. I have always imagined it as a beautiful place (lived in California as a child). Had a friend that moved to NW when my children were little and we could talk so cheap late at night after the kids were in bed.

  239. Irlandese, I keep having evil thoughts about TK and you-know-who, but honestly with his behavior it’s hard not to.

    No regency, the problem is I don’t wander. i come here when I’m supposed to be working out, think I’ll just take a quick peek first, and then 72 hours later….

    dg, yeah I thought it was a typo, like oh, he spent $6000 on this temple. He has no shame. He’s probably bring in the actual Masonic Temple of Philadelphia so he can compare himself to George Wshingon.

  240. Seriously, I do the same thing and when I don’t I wonder what I missed in previous post and comments.

  241. *is embarassed to admit I’m on the East Coast*

  242. dg, you said you were at the speech? inside the hall? I dissolved in tears and cried through the whole thing and if I had been in a public place they would have probably thought i needed medical assistance

  243. There’s a huge difference between what’s east of the Cascade mountains and what’s west. If you like pine trees, go west. If you like desert-ish and wheat fields, go east. The mighty Columbia River runs right along the top. I moved here 10 years ago from Los Angeles and have never looked back.

  244. seriously so we get the night owl prize

  245. Phala–that was the biggest reason I STILL have not watched her speech. I am so fucking tired of crying my eyes out over this in front of people! I am just not rational about this anymore. Heaven help me if I actually had to be there to see it in person! I would have howled louder than I do at the teevee!

  246. Irlandese, would never have thought it would be that dry and flat. do the politcs vary a lot depending on the area. NC is diverse

  247. regarding Ayers/Obama:

    Comment by HARP | 2008-08-27 22:23:35

    Obama will say he wasn`t making bombs….It was just a school science project.


  248. Yay! Or, sucks to be us. 🙂

    I don’t think I’ve slept in like 40 hours.

  249. My husband called after the speech to compare notes and I had to tell him I would have to call him back.

  250. Carol, you are kidding right?

  251. Isn’ there a new repug ad about Ayers. I think it will be a topic next week at Repug convention and will gain traction

  252. He honestly would say that, I believe it. The question is whether the pundits are going to start giving him the Hillary treatment now. If hey start going after him, he’s really going to lose it.

  253. Well, it is nice to see someone else is up. I am even farther west in Alaska and a terrible night owl. Usually no one is around when I am checking things out. I have found this place to be a confort – most of the time. I hope that as time goes on this PUMA movement can keep going and do more to address what has happened in this primary.

  254. Waiting, I believe it will and now that we are networked we can concentrate our efforts where they will be most effective.

  255. Wow, what time is it in Alaska? Are you one of the proud 400 who voted in the caucus?

  256. The thing that gets me about Ayers are all the pundants and surigates that say he is a respectable member of the community. I remember those days and had some radical friends but we drew the line at blowing stuff up. Why is Ayers given a pass?

  257. Phala–Oh Yes! the politics are very partisan here. You have hard-core Bushies, and the tragic wimped-out Koolaid drinkers here that think they’re being rebellious. BO was actually here in Pendleton a few months back, as was Bill. Passed on the bullshit rock concert, but shook Bill’s hand for the second time (first was in ’96 when he was campaigning for re-election in my little town that I worked in down in SoCal). I am starting to see some NoBama stickers on cars, but not sure if they’re PUMA’s or Republicans.

  258. Yes, I voted in the caucus. And there were many more than 400. More like several thousand. It was 400 delegates that were selected to go to the state convention. From there only a few ended up at the national convention. The Obama campaign came in very early, set up offices and totally controlled the caucus, though it wasn’t out of hand like some of the things I have read elsewhere. They just were not prepared for so many people.

  259. “Why is Ayers given a pass?”

    My guess would be media bias, stupidity. I really think the Republicans could defeat Obama just by running Ayers and BAIPA ads in OH, PA and MI.

  260. If the Clintons had Weathermen friends, they would never, ever hear the end of it.

  261. Oh, and it is almost 1 am in Alaska. We are one hour behind the west coast.

  262. Yes I was in the hall. Most everyone was very, very sad. I was OK until it was over, and Bill, Hillary and Chelsea were onstage and that really got me. I just wanted to go off somewhere and have a good cry but it was too crowded, of course, so I kind of had to stand off to the side near one of the arches and try to keep it together, but I couldn’t. I wasn’t the only one.

    And I feel like since then it’s been one long slog of empty gestures by some Obama supporters, tirades and demands from others, and the media and party leadership constantly lowering the bar for how far we all have to grovel before we’re worthy of supporting The One. It’s late and for once I am tired and emotional, but that’s how I feel. Finding out how many Democrats and progressives in this New Coke Party treat people who don’t agree with them. And finding that the discourse on much of what passes for the progressive side is as poisonous, intellectually dishonest, and scorched-earth as rightwing radio. I feel like a woman without a country, so to speak.

  263. No, there exists a ridiculous double standard between the Clintons and their supporters and the DNC. It is growing wider by the day.

  264. I am a younger supporter, and I’m amazed by the number of people my age who are *really* put off by Wright. And yeah, they’re from PA and IN and so on. I’m pretty sure Ayres would be the same thing.

  265. I think the Obama campaign is getting nervous about Ayers though. Daley – don’t remember which one – was on FOX tonight talking about how it was no big deal and Ayers and Obama only had a few board meetings where they were both there. These guys are all in bed together. If Obama is revealed a lot of people stand to be brought out in the scrutney of the light. About time.

  266. dg–I’m in good company then. We will just have to go find a new country. It can be done. Most of us are Americans because someone back in time decided to leave it all behind and strike out for something better. This still runs in our blood–dig deep and find it. There are too many out there that feel the same way. 3rd party!!

  267. I am finally nodding off! Keep up the fantastic work, Conflucians!

  268. dg–very well said.

  269. dg, are you a delegate? I can’t imagine what it must have been like to have to deal with all of this in what was a party we used to be so proud to be part of

    I think Ayers will be problem in most of the country and may be the reason they aren’t talking about NC as much

  270. He pulled that with Rezko too, pretending he barely knew the guy. It all depends on whether teh medi’s really in teh tank for him and continues to give him a free pass, or if they’ve been setting him up for McCain all this time and finally turn on him.

  271. dg, I feel for you. I can’t imagine what I would have done if I had been there. I am not the most PC person. Been in the wilds of Alaska too long and don’t put up with BS and have found honesty is the only way I can play. Not always helps with my republican extended family. But to hear that kind of stuff from “progressives” would be too much. I admire the Clintons even more today than I did before because they can see the goal and stuff their feelings so they can ultimately reach that goal. Me – not so much. I hope many people eyes were opened on that floor the last two nights.

  272. Also, there’s Ayres’ wife who praised the Manson family.

  273. waiting, I agree and think that includes Repugs who believed all the bad press the Clintons received and have seen how they have stood up to all of this crap and grew in stature and a lot more people respect them and understand why we love and respect them so much. Hillary and Bill are the ones that received the long, ardent standing ovations

  274. Phala in NY – that is a comment from someone over at NQ as to what Obama will use as an excuse for Ayers behavior.

  275. How about the guy who was on Greta and wrote an article about his house being fire bombed when he was a kid. His father was a judge hearing a case the Weather Underground didn’t approve of. And Ayers saying he didn’t do enough. Recently. And he is an education expert? What is he teaching the kids?

  276. Seriously – is their video on that?

  277. Not a delegate, not an insider in any way, don’t work in politics. I happen to live in the metro area, for the time being… you just had to show up.

  278. Seriously, if I had a neighbor who said something like that, there is NO WAY IN H$!! that I would attend a party at their house and a fundraiser would be ridiculous. Yes all of those Chicago guys are tainted and if B0 is not elected Fitzgerald will bring it to light. If he is, Fitzgerald will be replaced

  279. Just a few words from a middle aged white male conservative here. (Don’t shoot! I’m unarmed 😉 )
    As a conservative, I am deeply disappointed in the Bush administration. Real conservatives believe in conservative christian values, want a balanced budget, no immigration, and no blundering about in UN affairs that dont concern us. GB is for none of these things. Neither is McCain, so I don’t care much for him either. But there’s no chance in hell I will vote for Obama. See, I’ve just gone through eight years of a president who couldn’t see the handwriting on the wall, which is why you dems now control congress (Thanks a bunch, George!). I don’t need another prez who is equally clueless. How clueless? His pick of Biden left our jaws dropping.

    He could have had Richardson and galvanized the hispanic vote. He could have pulled a JFK and gone for Scott Edwards and turned Texas blue. He could have picked another woman and taken the wind out of your PUMA sails. He could have gone with someone from Ohio which he HAS to win. He could have picked someone with a strong anti-war record which is what got you congress back in the first place. I could go on.

    Hey Obama and Nancy get-over-it Pelosi! Since you two seem to be illiterate, let me read the handwriting on the wall for you. Its written in lipstick and it says:


    Ann Coulter once wrote that if you had to choose between Hillary and McCain, go with Hillary, she’s the more conservative of the two. Pity she is not running as an independent. She would get my vote.

    BTW, whoever came up with the slogan ‘Nobody Owns My Vote’ is a damn genius! If you had that slogan earlier, you might have won. Rock on.

  280. Phala in NC, I would hope Fitz could bring it all out, but their are limits to the federal system. Washington calls the shots and there may be repugs that don’t want this stuff to come out either. So many frauds, so little time.

  281. I am an eternal optimist, I guess, and am trusting that we have succeeded in opening the eyes not just of dems but also republicans like Robert and we are energized to shine some light on the problems and work to correct them. If I remember my history correctly, parties have realigned several times over the last 200+ years

  282. robert, I won’t shoot. Obama is a uniter. My brother is a staunch fiscal conservative who I have had trouble talking with these past 8 years. Now we e-mail several times a day and talked while the roll call was going down till I had to get off for my tears. He has hated the Bush years and can’t wait for someone new. He believes in McCain mainly because his son went to the navy academy also. I know all republicans are not evil. Many have told me how they have gained a lot of respect for Hillary this last year. I am looking for solutions. If McCain can bring that and bring people together than that is far better than what we have had these long 8 Bush years.

  283. Carol, because it’s such a well known incident, I’m guessing there’s at least audio, but I can’t say for sure.

  284. Seriously, I can understand the young people not really getting the significance of what Ayers and his wife were doing. What I don’t get are all the dem politicians my age that lived through that era and are not offended by it. Maybe it is because I grew up in LA and saw all of it first hand. But it was on the news every night. Have all these dems given Ayers a pass because they smoked a little pot in college too? Didn’t Vietnam and its aftermath effect their thinking? Was it, is it OK to fight violence with violence? Are we witnessing a less violent overthrow of the government with this latest attempt by Ayers to change the polital dynamic? Just late night rambling thoughts after a very emotional week – and its not even over.

  285. I’m wondering more about the parallels bewtween what’s just happened and Cuba’s election in 1961 when Fidel Castro became dictator. Many Cuban Americans on Puma pac have been mentioning how it reminded them of when they had to flee Cuba. It would be nice to see a thread with some of their stories. Their posts have piqued my interest. Cubans have been warning us about Obama during this whole election.
    Biden has no idea what star he has just hitched his wagon to. None what-so-ever.

  286. waiting, I don’t think Ayers will get a pass from most adults and I think even young people will question. Whether the media covers it or not, it will be in Repub commercials. We have seen what violent political action looks like in the middle east and I think that will contribute to people’s opinions that might not have been so before. Those that will support B0 no matter what will come to some accommodation in their own minds.

  287. Sorry, siblings, for the long post. But I just couldn’t hold back anymore.

    stryman, you said:

    “Both campaigns played hardball as you might expect from competitive, highly motivated people. It’s what happens in politics. I don’t think there was enough difference between the two to vilify the winner.” Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah…….

    Here is my response:

    First, only one side, Obama’s, played hardball to the point of illegality. (And don’t ask for links because they are everywhere. Just like Hillary isn’t Obama’s mommy, I’m not yours. If you need documentation, find it yourself. I’m through with that ruse.) That is a place I will not go. Either we have a civilization that follows the Rule of Law and applies it equally to all citizens, or we don’t.

    I, for one, am finished with listening to all of you Obama supporters jabber on about this issue. It’s pretty damn simple to me — either play fair and follow the rules established before the campaign by all the participants, or I will find a group to identify with that does. (Again, the links on the DNC’s RBC’s change in the rules in the middle of the nomination process are everywhere, so I will not entertain a discussion with you on these facts.)

    Second, Obama is NOT the first African-American presidential candidate — nor would he be the first African-American president if by some slim chance he were to win the election. That honor goes to five men before him: Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge. During the campaigns of some of these men — most notably, President Lincoln — their “Blackness” was even spoken of in hushed circles of influence. I do not, however, find it surprising that men seem to forget this little detail in history. It is a common fault in most men that they frequently forget what they do not wish to remember.

    Now, although I can assure you that these are indeed the facts of history; I do not, as yet, have the ability to say the same thing about a female president. It hasn’t happened yet. And will not happen during this election cycle. And, that, stryman, is indeed a shame. During all these years as a nation, we have yet to be able to claim the truly ground-breaking good news that the US has finally joined the rest of the advanced civilizations of the world and elected a woman to our highest office — especially a refined and capable woman such as Hillary. Truly a disgrace to all Americans, it is.

    Third, although the media was, indeed, the venue through which sexism was displayed — not only toward Hillary, but toward women in general (and, I might add, continues to be displayed) — Obama, by the very fact of his position, was complicit in every word that was spoken and every deed that was done by not stepping forward, admitting that sexism was being used against his worthy opponent and vowing clearly that he would have no part of it — either directly or indirectly. His campaign used this hateful bigotry against his opponent and then cynically accused his opponent of doing just that in a nation-wide attempt at blame-shifting and obfuscation. Hillary did not use racism in her campaign against him — Obama knows that. And, you know it.

    For Obama to complain that Hillary —- or Bill — used racism to hurt his election chances, is appalling. These are two fine people who have fought all their lives for equality for all Americans, but Barack has the audacity to imply that they are racist?! Even now I can’t get the image of Obama’s smirking face out of my mind as he casually flipped Senator Clinton off like some adolescent miscreant in a school-yard brawl. At the risk of having people like you cry slogans of unrequited entitlement, she was our first lady. She deserves better than that. Bah! Disgusting! Did she return the gesture? No. Never. And you won’t ever find her doing so. She has demonstrated a strength, resilience and unfailing civility that Obama can only hope to achieve someday in his life.

    So, yes, we are angry. The Revolutionaries who founded this country were also angry. Injustice makes people angry. Your attempts to further insult us by insinuating that if we do not accept the position in the Democratic party that Obama’s power play has graciously bestowed upon us then we are simply being immature girls, rings quite hollow for me. It does nothing more than fuel the flames of my discontent. Quite honestly, I’m not insulted by the idea of being called a girl. I enjoy feeling youthful. I am, interesting enough, aware that you think I should be insulted by the idea. Thus your somewhat tiresome use of the cliche. That bores me.

    Perhaps you should leave this forum, if our righteous indignation bothers you that much. You are not capable, as yet, of discerning the difference between people who supported a candidate to the end, and people who, in the process of giving their candidate their unflagging support, found that after all their hard work in the primaries they were left with the knowledge that there were fatal, uncompromising flaws in the very party they chose to shelter them from just such evil. Yes, you should leave. And if our angry, unkind process of coming to grips with this new discovery about the Democratic party upsets you so very, very much, then I highly recommend not returning. It will only get worse before it gets better. Healing can be such a painful and unappealing process — especially to outsiders.

    So, last, why have I spent this much time responding to your post? I don’t know. Did I really change your mind about anything? I doubt it.

    Think about it.

    But, please don’t bother responding, at least not to me. I’ve grown unusually weary of your kind.

  288. crookedOcampaign – I have not heard these stories. What have they been saying?

  289. edge, loved the post. can almost hear the speeches and comments at convention next week—so accommodating of B0 to assist the republicans in their efforts

  290. Goodnight, all. Sleep well. Dreams of fairy tales and all that stuff….

    Thanks, once again, for all your hard work.

    Thanks for giving all of us a place to vent.


    Me and my angry grief will now take ourselves to bed.

  291. Why is it that some think the campaign devoted two days to the Clintons. Hillary’s speech only lasted about 20 minutes and she was one of many speakers that talked about Obama. Bill’s speech was also short. How is that devoting two days to the Clintons? Hillary wasn’t even the keynote speaker on tuesday. She just gave a better speech than the others.

    PS. Obama supporters – Obama didn’t run the most brilliant campaign in history. He ran the dirtiest campaign. I have never seen so much corruption as I saw during this primary season. The convention is about only him and not Democrats. That is why it is boring. Everyone talked about Obama and his change and hope. The problem with that is he has never accomplished anything therefore people don’t have anything to talk about except the change he will bring. They don’t tell you how but they tell you he is going to bring it.

    dennymajor – I don’t think he deserves any respect. He doesn’t show it to anyone else so why should we respect him. He insults voters and doesn’t think he needs to apologize to them. He should have apologized to the people of West Virginia for his surrogates saying they didn’t vote for him because of racism. He should have apologized to the people of PA for saying they clinged to their bibles and guns. Instead he said they misunderstood him. It is never Obama’s fault. No wonder he said he didn’t need the people and only wanted their checks. It is all about him everything else is above his pay grade.

  292. dennymajor, on August 28th, 2008 at 12:32 am Said:

    “It IS Obama’s convention.”

    No, it isn’t. It’s OUR convention.

    Except it wasn’t.

  293. I wrote a blog yesterday. Feel free to comment.

    “I’m Sorry, Did You Think We Were Going Somewhere?”


  294. Leela, your post deserves to be on the front page. It’s beautifully crafted and worded – it’s a thing of beauty and a pleasure to read and reread. Thank you.

  295. Bravo Leela, out standing! Bravo

  296. We’ll the opening music was just as bad… yesterday’s gone…. Sorry Biden has a creep factor about him, well hell so dose the Party now baby faced thugs classless stuck in grievance and grudge victims of their own dependencies. Other than the Clinton’s this convention is lacking Michelle and Biden’s body language very poor. Hopefully McCain doesn’t do the other creepy former Dem..

    It’s time to pull an Edward(s), Bill needs a health issue for 90 days and Hillary needs to be at his side.

    Ok now can we work on building our new power base, non party non wedgies for 12. and break that glass ceiling. Now easy for me to say I dumped Party’s when Rusty went on trial and Newty showed up in Congress that was to me such a singular corrupting political party event both powerful Party Icon’s that I deemed unworthy of holding any public office or the trust of the People.

    The probable tipping point for climate change happened while we wallowed spent our energy and money of this fraud of a Priamry.

  297. Princessejen,great post. You are so right. The only place I am going is to John McCain.

  298. I didn’t notice the music, but it doesn’t matter what music they play, Bill will rise above it, and their pettiness.

  299. @Total: Absolutely! Don’t lose focus! Where is the birth certificate?

  300. Thank you Leela!

    And may I add that it was not only the media that wallowed in pigpen of sexism. This is the first time in an election when I was (continuously) insulted on the basis of my gender. It was stunning. By all means, disagree with me but disagree with my ideas. When a candidate’s supporters so quickly and easily stoop to calling me vile, sexist epithets it speaks volumes about the man they so greatly admire.

  301. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/07/obama_leaves_blue_women_seeing.html

    WASHINGTON — Somewhere along Barack Obama’s winding road through the red states, he lost me. It happened when he talked about women who are “feeling blue.”

    Obama says that these women should not be able to obtain a late-term abortion, because just “feeling blue” isn’t the same as suffering “serious clinical mental health diseases.” True enough. And totally infuriating.

  302. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-johnson/senator-obama-please-sto_b_72148.html

    And Barack Obama has joined them in this! Recently an Obama ad reinforced the right’s bamboozlement that Social Security is running out of money. speaking on Meet the Press:

    Now, we’ve got 78 million baby boomers that are going to be retiring, and every expert that looks at this problem says “There’s going to be a gap, and we’re going to have more money going out than we have coming in unless we make some adjustments now.” … I want to make sure that it’s there not just for this generation, but for next generations. So that means that we’re going to have to make some decisions…

    Paul Krugman pleads with him to stop. A few years ago the right tried to go after Social Security and there was:

    … a determined defense by progressives in the media, on the blogs, and in Congress beat back one spurious argument after another, while the American people made it clear that they really want a program that guarantees a basic retirement income that doesn’t depend on the Dow. And Social Security survived.

    All of which makes it just incredible that Barack Obama would make obeisance to fashionable but misguided Social Security crisis-mongering a centerpiece of his campaign.

  303. http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/06/21/politics/horserace/entry4200105.shtml

    “[The bill] does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.”

  304. I agree completely. I got an e-mail recently informing me that Barack Obama actually claims he ‘had to struggle’ even though it turns out he graduated from an Ive League school and has made millions of dollars!

    Hillary would have never lied about something like that!

  305. Did anyone else hear “Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye” as they showed shots of jubilant Obama supporters after the acclamation?

  306. “Addicted to Love” playing while Clinton was on stage is a hoax. If it were real, the event would be plastered all over Youtube. Do a search on Youtube, and you’ll get either the speech, finished with “Beautiful Day” by U2, or you get the Robert Palmer video. It sounds plausible enough, but there’s no evidence that it’s true. You’ve been hoaxed, katiebird.

  307. Thank you, Delphyne, Serena,gxm and all others who liked my response to a troll. I always hope I’m not bloviating too much and your comments mean more than I can say. Honestly, sometimes I think I’m gonna blow a gasket if I don’t speak up on this issue. So, thanks for not being annoyed when I pontificate.

    Anyone who would like to use all or any part of what I write to further the cause of the PUMAs is welcome to do so. Permission in advance. It would be an honor.

  308. It is easy to see that you all will help be the Ralph Naders of 08. Nice choice, idiots!

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: