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Thursday: Hillary’s Loyalty to what is left

waiting to vote in Zimbabwe

waiting to vote in Zimbabwe

Evidence, both demonstrable and circumstantial, continues to show that Barack Obama “wins” by suppressing votes for his opponents.  For him, it is not sufficient to count the votes and determine the winner.  The votes for his rivals must be intimidated from being cast in the first place, as we have seen in the caucuses.  Or they must be discouraged from showing up in the voting booth as a result of relentless perception management broadcasts that his rival is finished cannot win anyway due to “the math”.  Or the votes need to be stolen in the form of unearned and reassigned delegates.  Or they have to be swindled as in the case of delegates who are misled on the rules of the convention and do not know they have the right to challenge state tallies in what we can predict will be a carefully planned dance that will keep the delegates guessing the state tallies until the very last minute. From Heidi Li’s Potpourri:

A single delegate can contest state’s roll call result: On a roll call vote by states, the vote cast on behalf of a delegation may be challenged by communication to the Convention Secretary by telephone or other means by any voting member of that state’s delegation within ten (10) minutes after the Convention Secretary’s announcement of the state’s vote. The votes of that delegation shall then be recorded as polled without regard to any state law, party rule, resolution or instruction binding the delegation or any member thereof to vote for or against any candidate or proposition. The Convention Chair may send a parliamentarian to the delegation to conduct the poll. At the discretion of the Convention Chair, the roll call may continue instead of waiting for the result of the polling.On a roll call vote conducted by telephone or other electronic voting mechanism, the vote of a delegation as shown on the video projection system may be challenged by communication to the Convention Secretary by telephone or other means by any voting member of the delegation within ten (10) minutes after the delegation’s vote is shown on the screen.

We have heard over and over throughout the past two months that Hillary is bound by her loyalty from rocking the boat. It has been said that loyalty has blunted her personal ambition. It is loyalty that stays her hand from seizing the reins of power from a party that is rapidly transforming itself into a copy of its conservative counterpart.


Why does this scenario sound so familiar? Ahh, yes, it is very much like the “unity” theme that the Obama camp has been clubbing us over the head with since they got away with murdering Hillary voters at the RBC hearing. It’s another form of emotional blackmail. It keeps Hillary in line by calling on some personal principle. But who is demanding loyalty but people who have none, either to the party or to voters? What kind of people would go this far to suppress the will of more than 18 million voters? What kind of people would subvert their own processes in order to prevent anything other than their predetermined outcome?

We have evidence that Hillary is not the kind of person to hit below the belt. It surfaced last week in the Atlantic piece on the 200 emails from her campaign. Throughout the campaign, we saw her “accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative”. We have seen her demonstrate her loyalty when she graciously left the stage in June so that Obama could attempt to unify the party. But there are limits to loyalty. When an entity seeks to destroy the party and the voters that gave it their trust, then loyalty must be set aside even at the risk of seeming to be personally ambitious.

For eight years, half of the country has been held hostage to the Republicans who came to power and held it by suppressing voters, first in Florida and then in Ohio in 2004. Bush and his party has looted the treasury and deliberately undermined the efficacy of government. They have been successful beyond their wildest imaginations. And they got away with it because they called on the civility and integrity of others to stay their hands. Al Gore graciously stepped aside in 2000. Kerry did not challenge the results even though thousands of African-Americans were left out in the cold on election day. Pelosi did not pursue impeachment for fear of losing the collegiality of the Congress.

At what point does a politician go from being a target of emotional blackmail to being complicit in her own destruction? And what if that politician stands to lose not only her own power but diminishes the power of all of her supporters? Is the threatened media firestorm of accusations and lies more damaging to the process than the loyalty that holds her in check? The process itself is in danger of becoming nothing more than a sham seen in countries at risk in their downward spiral towards suppression, corruption and economic insecurity.

So, what is the cost of loyalty? And can a politician remain true to herself and her country by freeing herself from the faithfulness to her tribe? Only a leader knows the answer to that question.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Declaration of Independence

228 Responses

  1. At this point. Right about here. It’s not a GPS point, but the well defined intersection of “no way” and “We’ve had enough”.

  2. IMHO – this is no longer about Hillary. We are fighting for Democracy.

    And that joker’s house of cards will come tumbling down…. we need to be positioned and ready to create & drive a viable third party with or without a candidate.The dems and repubs are now equally corrupt.

  3. I believe she is capable of making the right decision. If it is going to happen, right about now would be a good time to unsuspend the campaign.

  4. I think right about the moment it came out that Hillary still defeats McCain beyond the margin of error while Obama remains in a dead heat.

    Today, she’s obviously got some other pressing concerns, but I have a feeling it can’t be from her mind. Baby Jeezus isn’t the Savior he promised to be. Hillary still is.

  5. By the way a Clinton delegate in Houston just said she’s voting Obama because his stance mirrors hers on Healthcare.

    I have to ask, is ignorance a requirement for candidacy as a delegate? The hell?

  6. What the hell is she being loyal to? It’s certainly not principle, the Democratic Party, or the American people. I’m starting to have flashbacks to Florida in 2000. I worked my ass for Gore in that state only to see him sacrifice us all so he could “save face.” I remember telling myself, “Gore doesn’t give a fuck about us.”

    I’m thinking of HRC less and less.

  7. No way his stance mirrors hers on health care. His mandates only for children, making it SCHIP with some lipstick.

  8. Like I said, ignorance is requisite.

  9. “If it is going to happen, right about now would be a good time to unsuspend the campaign.”

    “If,” being the operative word here. I will be the very first one to celebrate something like this happening…

  10. RD – now you are talking. Your best ever!

    Everyone remain strong. I believe in GOD, and we need HER help.



  11. Good Morning Carol.

    We are going to need a great deal of HER help….that is for sure.

    Say GM to Eddy for me, will you?

  12. Davidson: In Hillary’s case, the emotional blackmail of “loyalty” is backed up by societal norms that reinforce it for females. But the thing is, a man in her circumstances would feel no such compunction to sit it out. The calls for women to be “loyal” and self-sacrificing is what keeps them from breaking through that glass ceiling. You have to value yourself and your abilities more than the restraints that keep events from getting out of control. Does she have what it takes to seize control and calm the waters? I think she does but she has to believe it.

  13. The only reason I say cut Hillary some slack today is because she’s dealing with the same loss we are. She may not be ready to make her next bold move.

  14. “The calls for women to be “loyal” and self-sacrificing is what keeps them from breaking through that glass ceiling.”

    Expectation of loyalty and self-sacrify exist for both men and women. I however, agree with the point you are trying to make.

  15. “Obama Spent More on Ads in July Than McCain Spent on Election

    By Jonathan D. Salant

    Obama spent $57.2 million in July, including $33 million on advertising. McCain spent $32.4 million, with $18.7 million going for ads.

    Obama has now spent $335.5 million on his campaign.”

    Does this remind you of the Primaries – all of this money and he still can’t pull ahead!


  16. also known as self-sacrifice…heh. Coffee please.

  17. I was almost afraid to read through it – thinking who we’re dealing with on the other side.
    Then I remembered: a few weeks ago, i thought Hillary being in the nomination was a nice fantasy. And 2 days ago I thought her not releasing her delegates was too much to dream.
    So, back to Ghandi: “Be the change you want to see in the world”

    Hilary 2008!

  18. Regency: I would do it to honor Stephanie Tubbs Jones who brought an action before congress regarding the disenfranchisement of thousands of African Americans in Ohio in 2004.
    Do it in her memory. It is the right thing to do.

  19. “all of this money and he still can’t pull ahead!”

    It is not about money, is it?

    When the guy who made the Chelsea pimping faux pas was interviewing Murphy he also made some point about how important could PUMApac be if they only had raised $X amount of dollars (I don’t remember)….

    When I heard Murphy say ….”we may not be rich….” or somehting to that effect, I thought….for all the good money is making O….

  20. making/doing…why, English, why?

    You see, for those who have studied Spanish and hate the ser/estar (to be) differences….karma.

  21. Well, if you don’t like the word “loyalty,” maybe you can call it “Devotion to the interests of her constituents and supporters.”

    Because blowing up the Democratic party isn’t going to facilitate geting any of the things she cares about done.

    I’m sorry — I imagine today Hillary’s thoughts are with Stephanie Tubbs Jones and her family.

  22. I agree with plural.

  23. plural: you don’t have to blow it up to save it. But, yes, I do think now is the time. It is unfortunate that Tubbs Jones died when she did. I can almost hear the high-fiving from the other side. (you choose which party)
    Untimely or not, now is the time to seize the moment and save the party.

  24. What a great post! Thank you. I no longer read the paper and yours is first post I read every day.

    I couldn’t agree with you more. What we need now is a true leader….a profile in courage. I would love to hear HRC announce before the convention that she is “unsuspending” due to O’s standing in the polls and the need to elect a democrat and for her to call for a fair and democratic process at the convention. Though, I gusess she must wait until the rules meeting to see if Fl and MI are going to be fully counted.

  25. All the ad money in the world can’t change chicken shit into chicken soup

    I heard you last night & they did MIS-JUDGE OUR VOTE”!
    They made a choice between the loyalties of the “AA &
    youth vote” against the loyalties of the”Female/ long
    term democrat vote” & they felt the “LATTER” would be the ones to “FALL-IN-LINE” in the END; just like McCain’s 2000 supporters. I say “2” points to that:
    **If McCain’s 2000 supporters DID’NT “F.I.L.” MAYBE
    I’ve been working seemingly, unsuccessfully to “SPREAD THE LIGHT” on Mon. the 25th thru-out the U.S.A. @ 9:45pm moutain time, starting with NYC.
    Coming across “PERMIT” roadblock , I focused my energy on a “private location’s “OK “ie:
    Rockefeller Center owned by the Tishman/Speyer group. I got as far as a member of the main office that after many e-mails told Dr. Bledsoe , “We’ve declined”
    at this time. Since this is “ONLY PRO-NOT-ANTI -ANYONE” I also contacted “reps” from the McCain & Obama camps as well; they both liked it.
    Today I will reach out to the Fox news organization.
    If anyone wants to help you can call:
    #212-715-0300 the Tishmam/Speyer Group
    ask for Bevan Mahaney
    & let her know how GREAT it would be to have the “LOVING TRIBUTE” to a GREAT WOMAN be in
    Light the nite for cancer does.

  27. I’m giving Hillary the benefit of the doubt, and I’m assuming she knows what she’s doing.

    I will continue to support her, but not Obama.

    Nor will I support the Democratic party unless and until it cleans up its act.

  28. “Regency: I would do it to honor Stephanie Tubbs Jones who brought an action before congress regarding the disenfranchisement of thousands of African Americans in Ohio in 2004.”

    “Do it in her memory. It is the right thing to do.”

    Absolutely! And do it for “US”. We’ve been waiting for someone to fight for whats right.

    If it takes a women showing the men how it’s done, she’s here and she is unafraid to fight for the democratic process and retrieve what belongs to her, fair and square.


  29. CNN:

    “the results are now showing up in the polls: not only are some key states like Ohio breaking toward McCain but the Reuters/Zogby poll today showed McCain opening up a 5-point national lead — and stunningly, voters said in that survey that he would be better handling the economy than Obama! That is the bread and butter issue for the Democrats, one they should be able to seize upon to capture seats up and down the ticket.”

    Wall Street Journal/Rove:

    Mr. Obama, on the other hand, needs to reassure Americans he is up to the job. Voters recognize he represents change, yet they are unsettled. Does he have the experience to be president? There are growing concerns, which the McCain campaign has tapped, that Mr. Obama is an inexperienced celebrity-politician smitten with his own press clippings.

    And is there really a “there” there? Besides withdrawing from Iraq, it’s not clear what issues are really important to him. Does he do his homework or is he intellectually lazy? Is there an issue on which he would do the unpopular thing or break with party orthodoxy? Is his candidacy about important answers or simply about us being the “change we’ve been waiting for”? Substance will help diminish concerns about his heft and fitness for the job.

    Mr. Obama’s performance this summer has added to voter doubts, putting a large burden on his acceptance speech. There are challenges in a speech staged with 75,000 screaming partisans at INVESCO Field. Will it deepen the impression that he’s more of a rock star than a person of serious public purpose, or can Mr. Obama have the serious conversation he needs to reassure Americans?

    The rock star has started to lose the adulation of the MSM.

    It’s about time.

  30. myiq, two questions if I may.

    1) will you support the D party if H is the VP ( I do not believe she will) or if H asks “you” (her supporters) to (she will definitely give the unity spiel…ah, you have to love Yiddish)?

    2) what would constitute “clean up”, change of leadership, primary process, all of the above?

    You do not need to answer, but I have been wondering myself

  31. Ok, it’s redstate, but I peak sometimes, just to see what they are saying. Anyway a member posted a diary that Detroit delegates were discussing this weekend nominating…wait for it…Hillary!

  32. But, but, but….Kim….what about the crowds in Berlin, the stadiums, the GAP videos? Americans so not deserve O….fools.

  33. What Myiq2xu said.

    Hi Tellurian.

    Question: What’s the logistics on “unsuspending” her campaign? Does HRC need to unsuspend her campaign in order to challenge BO at the convention? It doesn’t sound right.

  34. Good bye Yellow Brick Road:

    Dear DNC:

    You’ve lost me. You really have this time. Let’s be frank here and put our cards on the table; you insisted that after all these years you did not need me. Frankly at first I chalked it up to one of our petty little disagreements we have come to experience over the years, but this time I guess you felt that you could do this without me and you wanted to move on. You threw me under the bus and gave my seat to another. Wow, that hurt!

    See, after all these years of being that passenger who often did not always agree with the destination, I remained onboard out of a deep sense of commitment to where we might be heading. Things like equality and looking out for the other guy was a tenet I strongly adhered to and when on occasion you chose a detour I held my tongue because deep within I kind of agreed that you were able to read the map better than I so I remained in my seat. The scenery was pleasant at least and the company helped to pass the time. We felt we were all headed in the right direction even with the pitstops along the way!

    But you changed! You started to veer off course. In place of camraderie you began to tell us to sit down and shut up! I found myself being told to stand up and give my much vaunted seat to someone else. I started hanging out in the aisles with others who had been forced to do the same. Our driver was no longer Mr. Shared Commitment but someone we hardly recognized. Mr. My Way or the Highway began to take over the steering wheel and many of us began to scratch our heads. Who were these people who refused to listen to our directions as we began to veer all over the map?

    It became apparent that we, the compliant passengers, were being replaced. Our valued seats no longer ours. And as we began to mutter amongst ourselves we were eventually thrown from the bus and told to find a place under it while you adopted the old Greyhound slogan of “leave the driving to us”.

    Can’t do it anymore. It gets pretty tiring down here what with the exhaust blowing into my face listening to a series of platitudes and calls for a false unity. I get pretty heated being told that I can only reboard the comfort of the bus if I accept a false candidate who has willingly sold out the priniciples I had cherished from my special seat on the bus.
    Uncomfortable as it is, I just can’t do it.

    Let me off at the nearest exit. I may need a GPS to find my way home again but I am willing to remain in the wilderness while you continue down the road to who knows where. The excitement and the formerly held pride I had when I first stepped aboard that bus has long since worn off now that you have rerouted the destination. As for me, I’ll be fine. Just as you dismissed my presence, I can no longer tolerate yours.

    Journey’s end. Watch your step.

  35. Brava Pat!!!!

    Make new friends, but keep the old….one is silver ….

  36. Pat, can I write like you in my next reincarnation?

  37. Good morning, RD!

    What an inspiring post! Yes, I think Hillary needs to unsuspend soon. She will be complicit in her own destruction if she continues her loyalty to the people who want to destroy her. I hope she will stand up for us. I agree that she definitely has what it takes, but it will be a big step. I truly believe she must throw caution to the winds and take that step. She owes it to herself and to us, her supporters.

  38. Pat,

    What an amazing comment. It should be a post in itself.

  39. It amazes me what this woman, this leader has gone thru. I think it is too much to ask to lay this burden, that DNC and Obama have created, on her shoulders. If this fiasco ends as one, it in no way implies Hillary’s limits as a leader; it correctly describes the present and poor state of the democratic party. Remember it was the party leaders that picked Obama, not the voters. I feel Hillary is in an almost impossible position, it seems as though she will be villified either way no matter what happens. This is Obama’s and the DNC’s fault, plain and simple… and the slightly less than half of democratic primary voters who voted for the One, and imparticular those who continue to support him blindly…

  40. BB: “What an amazing comment. It should be a post in itself.”


  41. Ok, going to the “big city” for our weekly visit to Aldi and chinese buffet…

    Kim, I will keep an eye for ex and ck….(I hope is not cousin Cupcake)…

    Be good.

  42. Pat – just put out your thumb. Some of us took our own transportation and are headed back in the right direction. Hitchhikers welcome!


  43. Pat J: Damn, lady. That must be a post and like now.

  44. McCain Visit Gets Scant Pre-Event Coverage vs. Obama’s, Richardson Swooping in to Grab Headlines (Update 1X)


    You’d think in this military area the media would be generating excitement over a McCain visit.. But compared to what was bestowed upon Obama back in May…the coverage was perfunctory.

    So what else is new?

  45. At this point should the supers come to their senses (fat chance) and cast their ballot for Hillary the AAs and Obamatrons will revolt. The result? McCain in the White House.
    Dean, Pelosi, and Reid have changed this into a lose lose situation. I think Hillary is pragmatic enough to know this and it is why she is keeping shut.
    I also think that Dean, Pelosi and Reid are petty enough to end her effectiveness as a Senator should she “rock the vote”. Hillary knows this too.
    The best thing she can do at this time is to go along with the charade, hoping Obama pulls this off. In her mind a flawed Democrat is better than any republican in the White House.

  46. RD: I know way too many women have been conditioned to believe they’re sub-human but it doesn’t mean she’s not acting foolishly. I sympathize with her as a person but not as a politician. These are desperate times here. She’s got to sacrifice her own personal feelings for what’s best for the Party and the people.

  47. MrMike – are you telling us that Mr. Unity can’t unify his flock behind the “candidate that will win”? What kind of a leader is that?


  48. I respectfully disagree. Her troops are waiting to heed the call. The country is holding out its hand for leadership. She needs to make her move to save us from this disaster which looms larger each day. Obama, McCain are interchangable. If she is willing to throw the first pitch, we are willing to hit the home run. Now Hillary, now!

  49. Elixir:

    “Hi Tellurian.

    Question: What’s the logistics on “unsuspending” her campaign? Does HRC need to unsuspend her campaign in order to challenge BO at the convention? It doesn’t sound right.”

    Hi Elixir:

    Let me say this: I am not privy to Hillary’s plans. I can only restate what we already know. That is:

    Harold Ickes made the statement at the RBC Meeting, 5.31.08 that Hillary requested reserving the Right for a challenge to be made at the Convention to the Credentials Committee regarding the RBC’s misallocation of delegates taken from her and their decision arbitrarily declaring BHO the presumptive Democratic Nominee.

    As far as any procedural aspects “unsuspending” her campaign. I believe that is unchartered territory, even for the DNC..

    Heidi would be the most knowledgeable to ask as to procedures for the “unsuspension” of Hillary’s Campaign.

    Let the drama begin unfolding and hopefully leading us to Victory. Leading with Hillary fighting for what is rightfully hers, now that Obama has agreed to releasing the full delegate count from MI and FL.

    Go Hillary – GO PUMAS!

  50. Many of us that come here to the Confluence to talk with like minded liberals have discarded our loyalty to party to embrace loyalty to democratic ideals and love of country. We should expect and accept no less from our leaders.

  51. Harold Ickes statement about reserving the right for challenge could have been made in light of a possible indictment of Obama by USA Patrick Fitzgearld. It would take something of this magnitude to derail Dean, Pelosi and Reid.

  52. Hillary’s Debt:


    Does this mean she has $10 million left? It isn’t really clear. If so, let’s get it done.


  53. Prolix: Because blowing up the Democratic party isn’t going to facilitate getting any of the things she cares about done.

    DRII: It amazes me what this woman, this leader has gone thru. I think it is too much to ask to lay this burden, that DNC and Obama have created, on her shoulders. If this fiasco ends as one, it in no way implies Hillary’s limits as a leader; it correctly describes the present and poor state of the democratic party.

    I’m with Prolix and DRII. Hillary has spent 35+ years working diligently for specific causes: health care, human rights, education. That is her focus. She is a pragmatist and knows the inner workings of the government in a way that we do not . To expect this one woman to take on the entire institution (and the media) is too much. Don’t forget: we do not get real information, so it would not be reported accurately, and the “18 million” would not be 18 million. People will be confused and angry etc. Not everyone is as well-informed as we are here. She is thinking about the people who told her their health care tragedies and concerns along the trail. She also does not have the leadership support in the Party, so how would she carry a candidacy through without their battle readiness, organizational structure, and financial resources?

    It would be fantastic to see her pitch it all and throw herself into the flames, but it is too controlled and orchestrated–she would be burned at the stake. I, for one, feel she has given so much already. I support whatever decision she makes.

  54. Pat, what an amazing post — absolute perfection in tone and message! They don’t get any better than that.

  55. Masslib, that’s an interesting rumor. I wonder if the delegates here have taken to heart what’s happening with the mayor, another flash-and-sizzle “leader,” and are reluctant to repeat that at a national level. Kilpatrick’s sleaze and corruption aren’t a personal matter – it’s really hurting the city and dragging down the entire region.

    I can say I didn’t vote for Kilpatrick either time, and I have no intention of voting for his buddy Obama, either.

  56. Not that it will happen, but Nancy and Harry need to step aside. A 9% congressional approval rating under their majority leadership would be cause for instant dismissal in the private sector. These people are unable and unwilling to carry out the will of the people or to uplift the common good on behalf of the citizenry. They are doing the same as their Repub counterparts who proceeded them. Nothing.

    A major overhaul must occur. How and when this becomes reality may depend upon the November outcome. But a vote for Obama just adds to the reinforcement that what has been done in our names by our party is acceptable. This is all that is left for the electorate to determine.

    You lie down with dogs, you wind up with fleas. Never truer.

  57. I would not vote for Obama even if Hillary was his VP

    Making her the VP would be done strictly to pander to us for our votes, and would be an insult to every woman who watched a less-qualified man get promoted over her.

  58. Hillary has sacrificed so much… my goodness, maybe some are asking too much of her, or expecting too much…

    again this situation is not her fault…yet she needs to fix it…

    why can’t the DNC fix it…

    why can’t Obama see the damage he has done; stop and do the right thing…

    Why is it always Hillary’s responsibility…

    I understand what some of you are saying, but i truly feel for Hillary and what she’s been thru…

  59. I agree FIF. We cannot hold her accountable if she doesn’t even have the backing of the party leaders. That is where the battle should begin.

    Don’t get me wrong, a Hillary presidency is what this country needs. But the fight has to start with voters rights. We have seen the last three elections stolen from under our noses. This cannot continue! Our votes do not count anymore and that is the fight Hillary and the 18 million need to take on.

    Maybe losing is the only way to get the wheels on the bus that we have found ourselves under to move.

  60. All the posts lately about angry PUMAs inspired me:


  61. RD, another breathtaking column. It boggles the mind how you can do this day afte day and still manage to top yourself.

    And Pat–what are you waiting for? Sister, you are good.

    It is a real head scratcher as to why Hillary remains loyal to this abusive husband that is the Demo party. I think there is a grief threshhold, where you look around, realize you’ve suffered enough, take a deep breath and leap into the escape plan. Maybe the death of two great friends within a week will help her see that life is too short.

  62. fif,

    While honored to be credited with Plural’s erudite words, I must give credit where credit is due. It is Plural’s keyboard fused with a gifted mind that produced those thoughts. Thanks though.

  63. I agree completely. I have been waiting for Hillary to make a move, any move, to protect our country. I do not want to believe she will continue to put party above country, even when the party is now corrupt.

    It has to be now – or very soon. It is possible she is waiting until after the convention. It seems something is up. We can’t know what it is but I have a far-fetched hunch.

  64. The indomitable GeekLove has created a tribute video to Stephanie Tubbs-Jones. Please watch and remember one of our heroes.

  65. Real Clear Politics has released a statement that the Obama campaign has descended upon Inidianapolis for a major announcement on Saturday. Saturday being the day he announces his VP pick.

    Could it be Bayh?

  66. RD,

    Your post is prescient. Just this morning there was a story on the Ds reforming the primary system with an unbelievable quote from HoDean, “We want to ensure all voices are heard.” Absolutely unbelievable.

    Reforms are to be in place by 2010, pretty much like putting an addition on the barn after the horses are gone and not coming back.

  67. Plural: Because blowing up the Democratic party isn’t going to facilitate geting any of the things she cares about done.

    DRII: It amazes me what this woman, this leader has gone thru. I think it is too much to ask to lay this burden, that DNC and Obama have created, on her shoulders. If this fiasco ends as one, it in no way implies Hillary’s limits as a leader.

    I agree with Plural & DRII. She intimately understands the workings of this political hell in a way we do not. She is thinking about the things she has worked on for 35+ years: heath care, education, human rights. She made promises to people who told her their health care tragedies and concerns on the trail.

    And don’t forget, the media would not report it accurately, so people would not be getting objective information about what was happening. Not all 18 million supporters are here online and well-informed. Geez, even the delegates do not know the damn rules. I think you overestimate Hillary’s political capital in this “New Dem Party.” We saw the superdelegates turn on her, and I do not see them displaying any courage now either. Look at Rendell. (Sorry Pat & Carol). She cannot do it without a posse behind her, and we will not be in that Convention hall.

    It would be fantastic to see her pitch it all into the flames and act on pure principle, but they would burn her at the stake. Hell, they probably wouldn’t even cover it. She has given so much already. I think she is looking long-term, and I trust her decision.

  68. “Harold Ickes statement about reserving the right for challenge could have been made in light of a possible indictment of Obama by USA Patrick Fitzgearld. It would take something of this magnitude to derail Dean, Pelosi and Reid.”

    No, I don’t believe the Rezko thing had anything to do with it.

    Mr. Ickes, made the statement on the “merit” of the issue before him. He said, (paraphrasing): “Thirty people (RBC Members) have decided (arbitrarily) to “highjack”, and substitute their judgment above the wishes of over 600,000 MI voters who voted for Hillary Clinton, without “Fair Reflection”(that is) highjacking 4 delegates from Senator Clinton and 55 delegates from uncommitted status and giving them to Senator Obama.

    Mr. Ickes RBC statement here.. It does the heart good to hear it again: (I hope I encoded the video correctly. If not please correct..thanks)

  69. oops, my computer froze, and I see that my previous post actually did come through. Sorry for the redundacy.

  70. democracyfirst: She cannot wait until after the convention. That will be much too late. The names and faces will have already been stamped on the tea towels.

    My admiration for this lady is deep and abiding. As she suffered through this primary, we all experienced a measure of that suffering as well. But now is the time. Either yes or no.

    If yes, I guarantee that along with myself and millions more like me, we will be the first out the door and first in line to put our talents and abilities to work on her behalf. The country needs her. We are desperate for the leadership she extends.

    If no, then so be it. Her decision is hers and hers alone to make. I wish to be in a place that I can accept it without question.

    But if I were she, and looking at polls that tell me I could beat the opponent hands down, I would gather my courage and shoot for the moon. The task is daunting but she can do it. The alternative is not pretty.

  71. I want that too, Pat, I am so torn right now I feel like one of those head bobbers. A part of me says she can’t do this without the support of the democratic leadership. But when I hear two very close friends and Hillary supporters say, they are afraid they may have to vote for BO, because every time McCain opens his mouth he scares the bejesus outta them, I know it may have to be now or never.

    It is just a fucking mess and my hat is off to Brazile, Dean, Pelosi and Reid. They must have wanted a clusterfuck and by God they have one.

  72. God, I am beginning to come across as another Joe Biden today! Loquacious to the max! This primary has taken hold of my senses and sent my fingers into overdrive. Perhaps if I just picked up that feather duster……..

  73. Kim: And I know that you too would be out there working your butt off as well.

  74. OMG, that Stephanie TJ video by Geek Love & Guilda killed me.

  75. Murph has posted an update, and an interview by WSAZ’s Randy Yohe about filing a formal challenge against attempts to replace a Hillary Clinton delegate with an avowed Obama supporter.

    please also visit
    http://denverorbust.wordpress.com and send your support.

  76. Well, Regency, after watching GeekLove’s tribute, I am blubbering away and will be useless for the next hour or so.

    It was so beautiful, just like Stephanie.

  77. Pat Johnson..

    I wholeheartedly agree 100% with your analogy. I sincerely believe Hillary will do what is necessary and at the right moment to win the Nomination for us at the Convention.

    After the fact…is not a viable option producing satisfactory results.

  78. (sniff)

  79. Pat, you clean on Friday.

    Do you ever wonder if Brazile, Dean, Pelosi and Reid are scratching their heads and saying “What happened? We had this one sewn up?” Or are they too stupid to realize they made a colossal blunder?

  80. Pat, my butt needs a little workout. I have grown since turning 50, my skinny size 4’s have grown to an 8 in just a few months.

  81. Pat J.: great post.

    Myiq2xu: I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore!!!!!! (Ow! My office window doesn’t open. Why is everyone staring at me?)

    I would love a post about the logistics of how this convention and following primary would play out if we want HRC to take our lead and challenge BO.

    Prior to the convention HRC unsuspends her campaign? No, then there would be rioting in the streets, or at least that’s what Donna Brazile says. OK, so they do the roll call – who goes first, HRC or BO? That’s pretty important. If HRC gets the first roll call that would swing in her favor, people might take a chance and join in. If BO gets the first roll call delegates might feel pressured to vote for him. So after the roll call it turns out that it’s ____ – what? How close does it have to be to have a second roll call? Actually, what triggers a second roll call vote? Does the roll call include delegates and superDs?

    I need a primer.

  82. Remember Kennedy’s Profiles in Courage. This is such a moment. In memory of Stephanie Tubbs Jones the gauntlet must be thrown down. Hillary was made for this difficult task. Only she with her deep well of compassion and devotion to the democratic process can speak truth to power and give us true hope. Hillary’s personal ambitions must take a back seat to what she and we know in our hearts is right and true. This is her moment!

  83. Kim: They know. They may be crafty and wily but they are not stupid. That is why we are seeing so much of the tricks they are pulling to keep this coronation on schedule. If you were running a true and open primary, no need to resort to the dirty tricks they have pulled to ensure this procedes. They are fighting on two fronts: McCain and us! They just did not see us coming.

  84. Explosive Audio Found: Obama Arguing Against Born Alive Infant Protection Act Proves he LIED

  85. But Pat, why continue to try and coronate the naked emperor? Isn’t this the same as “Mission Accomplished?” Why try to make lemonade when you still have a chance to trade in the junker? Is this common sense that only bitter old hags, rednecks, r@cists, uneducated and gunowners understand?

  86. It’s getting down to the wire for a Hillary nomination. The prevailing powers in the DNC have made their error and they will likely stick with it. Only by a popular uprising could Hillary be nominated.

  87. The tribute to Stephanie Tubbs Jones was beautiful and moving. I am grateful that we have people whom we can truly admire for who they are and what they have accomplished. She was lovely.

  88. BO is milking this Veepstakes to keep eyes off of his weak numbers and lack of leadership.

    If HRC takes the challenge she must have an army of political supporters behind her. I understand her delegates are still there, but, she needs party leaders who will line up behind her should the roll call determine a different outcome than expected. Will Nancy, Harry, Donna get behind Hillary at the convention.

    I suspect much of this has been discussed. I can’t imagine it’s 4 days from the convention and party leaders have not walked through every possible scenario.

  89. Remember the movie “Little Miss Sunshine”? The kid was homely and lacked any real talent but the parents refused to recognize reality because they supported her efforts. Same with the Obamabots. They are stuck with this loser who becomes more unpalatable each day but they are willing to go whole hog owing to their initial support.

    It wasn’t until the end that they faced the reality that Olive did not measure up to beauty pageant standards and that she was never going to win. But they stayed to the end. Same with the Obamabots. They are willing to go off a cliff to make a point.

  90. I just had a conversation with an Obama delegate to the convention. He thinks that Hillary Clinton has a responsibility to deliver Florida to Obama in the GE. Additionally things will not go well for her in the party if the Clintons fail to deliver Florida (Yes, he meant both Bill and Hillary). Amazing (shakes head) Truly amazing. Obama is soooo out of touch.

  91. […] Thursday: Hillary’s Loyalty to what is left Sphere: Related […]

  92. Does Obama have any “responsibility” at all during this primary? He has had the cheerleading squad from the MSM, the DNC and their shady manuevers, the swarming and nasty Obambots doing the heavy lifting, and the machinations of Axelrod to bring up the rear. Now it is up to the Clinton’s to assure him of Floriday? What the hell is this all about?

    I would not vote for this fraud under any circumstances. Baby whiner loser extraordinnaire!

  93. “the math”

    More like fuzzy math and logic.

  94. Pat, why should he have any responsibility? It has been given to him on a platter. They told him they would put him in and he is holding them to that promise.

  95. fif, on August 21st, 2008 at 9:47 am Said:………It would be fantastic to see her pitch it all and throw herself into the flames, but it is too controlled and orchestrated–she would be burned at the stake. I, for one, feel she has given so much already. I support whatever decision she makes.

    fif, I couldn’t agree more . I know Hillary will do what is possible….she so often did what no one thought was possible . That indeed may include taking on the bought out DNC “leadership” . But to me that is a main problem. The DNC is no longer a political party. It was bought up by Barry’s backers and will follow the course it was bought for regardless of anything. They are like those people on ” Cops” who have stolen a car and happily ruin it during the police chase….they certainly don’t care about the car in the least .

    If and when Hillary makes a move , it will be to save the party….when she feels that tipping point has come, will be remain to be seen. It has to be close, because Barry is on the likes of Charlie Rangel and Wes Clark…. Dem elite can see there’s no pay off in supporting Barry. You get pushed out even if you do. Again, I know Hilary will do what is possible.
    She wants to lead this nation as much or even more than even we want her to. However the Clintons are just about alone before the Power Elite who want to continue to ream out the nation and the world. Along with fif, I support whatever decision Hillary makes because I know it will be what is possible . In any case, PUMA has played and will continue to play an enormous role in what is to come . In effect, PUMA is already a viable third party ….


  96. Why is it always Hillary’s job to prop him up? Good God, can’t this man do ANYTHING for himself? The DNC propped him up during the primary, and many of us warned them NOT to do that – let him stand or fall on his own. That’s what primaries are for, to see if your candidate can take the heat.

    We warned that it was no use protecting him in the primaries, because come GE time, he was going to have to stand alone anyway. They ignored that basic political fact, and as a result propped up a candidate who did not MAKE IT through the primaries, he was dragged and carried.

    Obama spent the entire primary season running like a pissy-pants baby to Brazile and Clyburn and Pelosi and Dean to defend him against that terrible mean Hillary. And they did. Every time.

    He’s like the kid on the playground who always runs to mommy, who always protects her dear precious, and he never learns to stand on his own. Then one day he’s all grown up, and in a bar shooting off his mouth as he’s learned to do. He finds out the hard way that there’s no Mommy to run to any more, and he is going to get his ASS KICKED in the real world.

    I predict that he’ll spend the general election whining and crying “Mommy make them STOOOOOOOOPPPP!!” while the Republicans laugh at Clyburn and Dean and Pelosi’s outrage, and kick the snot out of the skinny idiot.

  97. I just sent the following email to our girl. By the way, classy tribute to Tubss Jones on her web site.

    Please unsuspend your campaign. America needs you. John McCain and Barack Obama are scarey. Mccain has the wrong vision for America and Obama has no vision. PLEASE – we have your back if you will only fight for the nomination at the convention.

  98. Pat – just caught you outside the jail house when they released that child murderer.

  99. Annetoo, on August 21st, 2008 at 10:54 am Said:

    oops now that I read my post on line, I see a hole in it….yes Hill will want to save the party, but that’s because she sees it as an instrument to save the country…. it’s about the county way more than party ,of course . but I believe she sees the party as her instrument to save and lead the counrty.

  100. Carol & Pat: What is taking so damn long to get that car processed? The child was in that trunk.

  101. Wasn’t it just last week that the polls said people we tired of hearing about BZero. What does Axelfraud do, but spin the media like whirling dervishes on the Veep story. After the magical, mystical tour, a week in Hawaii and no good comeback to the celebrity charge other than see you in Mile High, methinks the wheels are coming off the BZero bandwagon and the Repugs haven’t even thrown the stop sticks yet.

    Can anyone say, “I’m ready for my close-up Ms. Brazile.”

  102. State there are many code words, I don’t know them all and wind up in moderation all the time.

  103. Regarding the failure of the late night comedians to take aim at BO:

    The study did not explore why Obama got off so lightly on the network shows from New York and Burbank. So we’ll all just have to guess: probably out of simple respect for Obama’s long public service.

    — Andrew

  104. WMCB, on August 21st, 2008 at 10:55 am Said

    I predict that he’ll spend the general election whining and crying “Mommy make them STOOOOOOOOPPPP!!” while the Republicans laugh at Clyburn and Dean and Pelosi’s outrage, and kick the snot out of the skinny idiot…..

    Absolutely . It’s so obvious, that I keep thinking the Dems were bought off to take a dive…. but then the Dem Elite certainly could be so delusioal as to think this is a winning policy ….so I can’t make up my mind if it’s deliberate or delusion . With Dems, it’s impossible to tell.

  105. I think Uh-bama is going to pick Donna Brazile-wax.

    They will call it the “Superbad” ticket

  106. kim and stateof: What are you talking about?


  107. BTW, how does this “Hillary must deliver the election/deliver Florida/do more for Obama” meme square with the Obamabots claim that she is a loser who is universally hated (those “high negatives” dontcha know) and she and Bill’s record are to be run from, not embraced?

    If she’s such a terrible, divisive figure, why would they want her campaigning for him? If she’s so hated, why don’t they want her to go away quietly, so as not to have their precious tainted by proximity to her nastiness?

    Effing hypocrites.

  108. Convention Alert:

    (via Corrente) Clinton Creates Whip Team to Quell Anti Obama Protests


    This is very odd article that states contrary points. Some quotes such as this note a pro Obama stance:

    “If people get down there on the floor and want to start blowing kazoos and making a scene we want to make sure we’ve got people who stand in front of them with Obama signs,” said person involved in the planning.

    Other quotes, such as this, note a pro Clinton stance:
    “Clinton spokesperson Kathleen Strand emphasized the team would not seek to convince delegates to vote for the former first lady, but would hand out Clinton signs to supporters who requested them.”

    Also, there’s this: “Strand said. “Our delegate whips, along with the Obama delegate whips, are a part of a team that will be on the floor of the convention to make sure delegates have everything they need, whether that’s answering questions or passing out signs during Hillary’s speech. ”

    Am I crazy or does this sound like an awful lot of maneuvering on the floor. Do I smell a fight?!!!

  109. Is anybody watching Obama in Va? Is he flat or what? the enthusiasm in the crowd is definitely lacking. He is just not connecting with people even when he is saying the right things. whats wrong with him?

    He just cannot play the fighter/populists type. They tell him to show some passion and he just goes flat

  110. Obama and Caylee’s mother share the same sympton: blame somebody else! I would love to be able to smash both their lying. whiny, indifferent heads together as my small tribute to justice. Self involved deceivers both!

  111. I’m not voting for Obama. No way in hell.

  112. If they caught John McCain checking into a Holiday Inn with Larry Craig, I would still not vote for Obama.

  113. Pat, a mystical snowy dove could alight on Obama’s head, with a light and a voice from heaven proclaiming, “This is my son, in whom I am well pleased.”

    Still no vote from me.

  114. state, not sure
    but i see a great difference between the obama and the mccain town hall meetings. Obama talks too long and takes fewer questions, which are in their majority nice soft questions.

    In contrast McCain is there to listen to people, he takes more questions, which can be 40-60% tough questions.

    It is amazing to me that Obama does not get questioned about Clinton! When McCain gets tough questions from the left and right, Obama does not get questions from hillary supporters???? The only reason i can see is that the questions are manipulated at Obama’s town hall meetings when compared with the total absence of manipulation at the McCain town hall meetings

    One more thing, McCain alwaays responds directlly to people, Obama doesnt. McCain always thanks people directly and shows empathy Obama doesnt

  115. Pat,

    Larry Craig was late for check-in, he got “stalled.”

  116. What’s the matter with you people? So his is tired. He just returned from a trip to Hawaii and had his close up with Rick Warren and you want him to be fresh and upbeat at all times? Come on! He has been patiently standing by awaiting his coronation, and displaying plenty of patience I might add, since February. This is all taking its toll! Close, so close yet he must wait another week and still is forced to breathe the same air as Hillary whom he does/does not need.

    You guys are too much. Why if this goes on much longer even he may not want to vote for himself and how would that look?

    Bad PUMAs! Bad, bad PUMAs!

  117. prolix: Laughing out loud over here once again!!!

  118. i mean McCain takes 40% tough vs. 60% easy while Obama takes 80% easy

    also the questions are more raw and directly connected to peoples problems at McCain’s town hall meetings

  119. Both Obama and McCain are disasters…If the choice is between them, we are F-ed. But I cannot vote for Obama because of the utter corruption of the DNC, and at least McCain would be a continuation
    of political norms….terribly wrong ones, but you cannot replace even wrong norms with nothing but hopey changy. To me, Obama is the pure corporate puppet. That’s why GE, I mean MSNBC , love him so much. McCain is still too much of a middle man for them . While doing all they want , he might get an idea now and then to help this nation…that’s not what Barry’s backers want at all. They want a 100% lock-down . So even a GOP guy is not enough of a corporate being for them.

  120. JFK once said: “Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country”. I would propose sending a candygram to Hillary inscribed with these words.

  121. I suspect a floor fight. Buckle your seatbelts, it’s gonna be a bumpy ride.

  122. Remember when we had a candidate out there who could answer questions on almost any topic without hesitation and it was an answer that was concise and clear with no “umms” or “ahhhs?”

    Just thinking about that, gets my granny panties in a wad.

  123. Hillary, you have our hearts and our minds. We have your back. Go for it!

  124. WMCB: One of them got “laid” down.

  125. WMCB: My daughter too is an RN in CICU. She knows firsthand what you speak.

  126. I fear our convictions are going to be sorely tested. Will we remain steadfast and refuse to vote for Obama should he be the nominee regardless of the ramifications? It’s quite likely Hillary will be blamed for our actions and we have to decide if this is bigger than Hillary.

    Just my humble opinion.

    Mountain Sage

  127. Barry throws whatever out that as his” plan.” …but it’s all lies. There will be no plan besides continuing to enrich the same folks Bush has spent 8 years enriching….if only Barry was Bush 3….Bush 5 or 6 is more like it.

  128. We will never see universal healthcare in the next 4 years. These two are much too beholden to the lobbyists. Whatever we get will be so watered down to be unrecognizable from what she proposed.

  129. Annetoo @ 11:30, well said. I abhor a LOT of McCain’s ideas, but I do think he’s his own man to some degree, who does love the country. I’ll take that over a puppet whose strings disappear into the shadows of Chicago politics and Wall Street.

    At least I KNOW what crap McCain is likely to pull, and he may do a little marginal good along the way. I have no idea what Obama’s agenda is, and I don’t think HE knows, because the puppet masters haven’t told him yet.

  130. Not mine, Mountain, not mine. I need my health insurance and I have always found a way. My son is in Iraq (or on his way), which should give me pause, but I will never, ever vote for that empty suit. For me the danger would be a democratic congress giving him carte blanche over everything and that scares the shit outta me. A Chicago slick ass politician with the ability to do anything? Hell no, give me divided government any day.

  131. Mountain Sage: My resistance has less to do with Hillary than it is the lack of exerience, the sleazy tactics and lies generated by his candidacy, and the Machiavellian efforts put forth by the DNC to get him to this place. In my opinion, not voting for Obama is as much a vote against him as it is for the DNC and those who pushed him on us. It merely says, no more.

  132. I am asking Hillary to put country before party.
    It is imperative that she become the next prez. We need her. She far surpasses any candidate – Rep or Dem – who had thrown their hat into the ring. She knows we need her. She has clearly demonstrated an intrinsic understanding of the issues that not only affect us today but the road we need to be on towards a positive future.
    I thank God for Hillary Clinton. I remain hopeful for an upset at the Convention.

  133. It seems very obvious that at least at this time in our history, the victories always go to those who are the least constrained by ethical issues, empathy, or anything but their insatiable desire to win. That is why Bush beat Gore. It is a known fact that had Bush won the popular vote, and Gore had won the electoral vote, the Republicans were prepared to force a constitutional crisis, and threaten to shut down the government over such an “injustice to democracy.” Gore obviously wouldn’t and didn’t do that. He even tried to concede before the Florida recount, just to be gracious and unifying. Kerry wouldn’t contest Ohio. Now Hillary is another who has become the victim of her own inner decency and misguided belief that if no one else is going to act unselfishly, she must do so.

    Obama, like Bush and Rove, has no such limitations. He does whatever he needs to do to win, and has always done so. I can almost guarantee that if the situations were reversed, Obama would still be fervently contesting the nomination; in fact probably would threaten a massive walkout if he did not get his way. At the very least, he would demand a VP role with real influence, and positions for his political allies in the goverment. Or maybe he would decide that his best course was to let the Hillary ticket lose, so he could take over later. Whatever best befitted him, that is what he would do. Not Hillary. And while we can all admire her personal decency, it does not help us. We are seeing our Party taken over by a megalomaniac with a messiah complex, enabled by a bunch of corrupt Party hacks who have been bought off, one way or another. We all have to live in this country; and most of us do not have Hillary’s advantages and access to the corridors of power.. And I personally think that she is wrong in saying that the Democrats winning this election subsumes all the other horrible affronts to our democratic system that have been suffered.

    Hillary is going to sit back and do what she thinks is “the right thing,” the “beau geste.” She actually thinks that having her name placed in nomination–with all the limits carefully arranged by the remorseless Obama machine–will be a nice unifying thing. Then she will get up and deliver a rousing speech telling all of her supporters to get behind Obama. And Obama will have her up on the stage for plenty of unity photographs. And she will think that she has done the right thing, even while she feels sadness and a sense of loss. But I don’t think she will have done the right thing.. And maybe it is not for me to say; but maybe it is, because it is my country, too. And helping the egomaniacal and vindictive Obama take over this nation is not a good thing at all. And “winning” the election may actually be losing the last vestiges of a legitimate and fair democratic process. Why should anyone play fair after this; there is no percentage in it.

  134. If Obama was unable to pass my test 6 months ago, he sure is unable to pass it now. The guy is crawling with baggage and his demeanor during the primaries sealed the deal. No way.

  135. Pat, you nailed it. My party ignored my vote, pushed an inexperienced candidate down my throat and told me to get over it. If there is one thing that cannot be done to me, it is back me into a damn corner, not this baby. I will come out stronger and swinging.

  136. Yep, Pat. It’s not only that I refuse to vote for the man, it’s also that I refuse to vote in favor of the process that got him there.

    If it’s allowed to stand, then it will never matter again what the Democratic voters want, and THAT is a bigger long term danger to the very fabric of democracy than even a McCain presidency, awful though that may be.

    If McCain wins, I cede 4 years, and yes, they may be bad. If Obama wins, I cede MY VOICE, and that is much, much worse.

  137. William: Powerful!

  138. So basically if we are left with the choice between Barry and McCain, I see it like this

    McCain= Bush 3.0

    Barry = Bush 6.8

    Thank God for Hillary Clinton.I remain hopeful too, because I must

  139. WMCB: Well said.

  140. Over at Balloon Juice they are creaming over a new ad attacking McCain for saying he didn’t know how many houses they owned.

    They want Uh-bama to get down in the mud with the pigs.

    Go ahead guys, use Rove’s playbook.

    The GOP has Rove.

    Let us know how that works out for ya!

  141. hello conflucians! Pat Johnson r u going to denver????

    My words for the day are as usual NO WE WON’T

    This was the first post on my blog back on May 18th, 2008. And it is even more relevant today!

    No We Won’t:
    Sit idly by when we witness sexism

    No We Won’t:
    Put up with the DNC manipulating an election

    No We Won’t:
    Vote for a candidate doomed to lose

    No We Won’t:
    Let the media decide who our nominee is

    No We Won’t:
    Be marginalized

    No We Won’t:
    Give the media a pass on it’s biased coverage

    No We Won’t:
    Be part of a party that takes us for granted

    No We Won’t, No We Won’t, No We Won’t

    Make sure the DNC, Howard Dean and your democratic representatives know that NO, WE WON’T TAKE IT ANYMORE!

  142. They want Uh-bama to get down in the mud with the pigs.

    He has been there right along when he sold his soul to the powers that be who promised him this win at any cost. They are only kidding themselves by constantly refusing to acknowledge the receipt.

  143. William, on August 21st, 2008 at 11:45 am

    As always, an amazing post. I pray it comes to a tipping point soon where she does step back from the uinty shit and then step foward to lead . When that will be I don’t know…. but there will be one

  144. taggles: Unfortunately I am unable financially to do so. But how I would love to be there with the roar of the crowd in attendance! And we both know that you and I would be able to find us a cozy corner and lift a few in honor of all the achievements PUMA has accomplished! We would have our designated drivers in gary and Mawm and a safe place to “sleep” if off with ppvlette!

    So please think of me once you get there. I’ll be thinking hard on you!!!

  145. I figured it up yesterday, I earn under 50k a year and am presently paying 37% of my income in taxes. I rent and am single, so I have no deductions and McCain wants to tax me even more?

  146. Oh my…Obama’s new ad blasts McCain on not knowing how many houses cindy owns. Gee, this is what we are left with? Forget health care, or the economy, McCain doesn’t know how many homes his rich wife owns.

  147. Well at least McCain’s wife bought the houses and he didn’t have to lay down with a dog to get it.

    William-fantastic post!

  148. masslib: Yep, sad to say it has come to this. Like who gives a rat’s ass! We all know she is an heiress. No surprises there.
    And yet she still does good works around the world. Oh well, it is a lot harder to live these days on a mere $250,000 a year. Jealousy bites.

  149. In this election (if Obie gets the nom) the whiny petulant self absorbed child is going to be curbed by the rational, sober, mature
    adult. ( he’s finally going to get the fathering he’s always been looking for…)

  150. Aw, thanks Pat!!!! I so wish you could be there. I will be thinking of you especially and remember you will hear my voice check the radio website for times and call in!!!!!

  151. Mary Lou: And a well deserved kick in his ass along with it.

  152. taggles; I will be listening, you can count on that. The program last night was great by the way. Loved Heidi Li and rd. You guys rock!

  153. McCain’s campaign is responding to the criticism from Obama’s campaign over the Arizona senator’s uncertainty of how many homes he owns by dropping a heap of oppo on the Democrat. By my count, there are seven hits here:

    “Does a guy who made more than $4 million last year, just got back from vacation on a private beach in Hawaii and bought his own million-dollar mansion with the help of a convicted felon really want to get into a debate about houses? Does a guy who worries about the price of arugula and thinks regular people “cling” to guns and religion in the face of economic hardship really want to have a debate about who’s in touch with regular Americans?

    “The reality is that Barack Obama’s plans to raise taxes and opposition to producing more energy here at home as gas prices skyrocket show he’s completely out of touch with the concerns of average Americans.”

  154. State: got it, so essentially the cafeteria thing is done for, no tax free insurance.

  155. Over at Balloon Juice they are creaming over a new ad attacking McCain for saying he didn’t know how many houses they owned.

    LOL! God, they are so stupid. What’s one of the best bludgeons the Rebublicans use against Democrats? “They are all socialists, who are going to redistribute wealth by taking away YOUR money and giving it to people who didn’t work for it.”

    Way to go, Axelrove. Play right into that theme with a BLATANT “eat the rich” ad. It’s worked so WELL in the past for us. These idiots are still in primary mode, and it is going to eat their lunch.

  156. As long as McCain and Cindy didn’t have Rezko purchase them for them, what’s the problem. Obviously he doesn’t get much enjoyment out of them.

  157. McCain doesn’t know how many houses he owns and BZero knew Rezko helped him buy his — where’s the greater sin?

  158. I believe that if Hillary wasn’t married to the last Democratic President, she might unsuspend her campaign and go for broke. But she has Bill’s legacy to care for and the Media would crucify-cruicify-them both if she did what we want her to do.

  159. Bashing a Republican for being rich is like criticizing a cat for having fur.

    This is America, where “rich” is a common ambition.

  160. McCain needs to respond:

    “I may not know how many houses my wife owns, but I do know that she qualified for the purchases without any under-the-table help from a Chicago slumlord.”

  161. Sweetie Sue: Who cares about the media? She never had them to begin with. Am I bothered that Cafferty, KO, Matthews, Mitchell among others don’t like her? No, I shut them off. The majority of voters like her, that is enough to break rank and grab the brass ring. They would find a reason to pile on her if she was conferred as a living saint by the Vatican or if she overcame Michael Phelps medals. The ones who count are us.

  162. I think Bill knows his legacy is fine with those who really support him. I think if anyone is pushing her to go for broke, it’s him.

  163. Hey, I see that McCain pretty much took my advice while I was typing! LOL!


  165. I have had it with the scare/fear tactics used by BHO minions that are too eerily similar to those used by Bush to get re-elected.

  166. Positioning Bush and “elected” into the same sentence is equivalent to positioning Obama and “qualified” together. Somehow does not fit.

  167. Reg:

    Do you have a cite/site for that quote?

  168. HZ:

    Most trusted?

    Considering the competition, it could be true

  169. I wouldn’t be surprised if a portion of the delegates haven’t been bribed. There are lots of ways to do it and not all would be a direct payment of money. There might be no way to prove it, but with 50+million a month you know he has investigated every delegate and with his corrupt kinda politics looked to see who he could buy and dont it.

  170. Oh, by the way, guess who’s allegedly postponing her wedding for Barack.

    Take a guess. She’s famous. She’s young. She’s white. She’s blond. Oh, and she text messages a lot.

    Looks like Scarlett does give a damn.

  171. Again, the Precious is acting like this is still the primary. Hillary could not have said what McCain said without howls of protest from her own wimpy party.

    We tried to tell them that the general would have ENTIRELY different rules, but they wouldn’t listen. Grandpa is going to eat his lunch.

  172. #
    WMCB, on August 21st, 2008 at 12:07 pm Said:

    McCain needs to respond:

    “I may not know how many houses my wife owns, but I do know that she qualified for the purchases without any under-the-table help from a Chicago slumlord.”

    My first thought too. Kind of gave him an opening. Wonder if McCain will take it.

  173. Pat and Regency, it’s true that the Media crucifies both Clintons no matter what they do.

  174. Bribed, threatened, cajoled, promised, intimidated, strong armed, forced, scared into submission. Take your pick. It goes a long way in reasoning how intelligent people for the most part would succumb so easily in supporting an empty suit with little or no executive or legislative experience.

    The DNC and Axelrod are likely viewers of The Soprano’s.

  175. Myiq2xu: Here for the McCain quote. Think that’s the one. Had to Google it.

  176. Did you guys see McCain’s response? It’s like he was channeling you Masslib. I would provide a link but I just saw it on CNN.

  177. The Repubs are already making fun of Obama demanding that the Clintons get groups of supporters and entire states to support him. They are equating it with the brat that has to have the parents do everything for them until they are 50. This line of attack could work as he is never at fault (because he never does anything for himself).

  178. Or the opponents need to be thrown off the ballot before the vote actually happens.

    Might be a little tricky in a GE, but it works well at the state level.

  179. Sorry, MiIQ, here. That’s a bad link.

  180. Don’t any of you rat me out to Riverdaughter, but I have to turn the tv on. I need to hear McCain’s response.

  181. I can’t take credit. That was WMCB.

  182. The Democratic Party we thought we knew was
    overrun by the Chicago machine and the Dean
    for Amerika/pseudo-progressives, and facilitated
    by an indolent Fourth Estate.

  183. Pat I’m trying to find the statement online, but I think I would have to go to McCains website and I am so not ready to do that.

  184. My most fervorent wish is for Hillary to unsuspend – she can win this election and then actually provide leadership for this corrupt country. It has been gutted by years of cabalism via Bu$h the inadequate. She owes the D party NOTHING. It has been “in your face” clear that from the very beginning they wanted a custer fork – there were no basis of support for BZero – none, nada, zip. When delegates, Superdelegates started their insane mutterings of “the Ones” “judgement” – when they either ignored or answered letters/emails with threats, or ridicule was when I stopped writing – three asinine replies from lunatic Brazilenut did it for me. They are ignorant and without integrity – they care not a wit about this country. How in hell they found these morons is beyond me. In the beginning it took all my restraint to keep from screaming “are you frigging crazy?” The avoidance of vetting or the out right lies were enraging.

    I agree with Carol – you can’t turn chicken shit into chicken soup, duh, that’s a given. Who cares who BZero gets for VP, who cares? No one can put this man in office – no amount of money will make real registered voters(meaning no dead peoples votes nor tampering with the real votes) elect the fraud.

    Hillary is not responsible for the D party fuzk up – for their ignorance – their greed – their ugliness. She can’t and should not be made to sure to shore up BZero.

    If only she would see it as we do – Country over Party – we do not know how low, how threatening they are to her- these people are real criminals/thugs. I will never ever consider myself a dem again if they proceed on this course and they keep these thugs as “party leaders”.

  185. I can hear it coming. “There those democrats go again, trying to convince you that it’s somehow a sin to achieve the American Dream.”

    Jesus, I could write the lines that Bambi is opening himself up to all day. I’ve seen it a million times. Have these idiots never WATCHED a general election, that they are so stupid?

  186. Carol, on August 21st, 2008 at 8:36 am Said:

    “Obama Spent More on Ads in July Than McCain Spent on Election

    By Jonathan D. Salant

    Obama spent $57.2 million in July, including $33 million on advertising. McCain spent $32.4 million, with $18.7 million going for ads.
    Where on earth did all that money go? I’m in Iowa…a serious swing state. For the past week we’ve seen three or four McCain commercials every day. In that same time frame we have seen a total of two Obama commercials.

    Someone needs to get hold of those financial reports and find out just where that money is going. It’s sure as heck not going to advertising here.

  187. Thank you.

  188. Scarlett’s getting married?

    I guess she decided not to wait for me.

  189. Maria Garcia: here at Politico.

  190. Thanks Regency. They didn’t show the last part on CNN. So they even got in an arugula jab. Ouch.

  191. That’s what drew me to Hillary first as well. I’m a nurse, and hubby’s a doc, so we see the broken healthcare system first hand.

    Obama’s plan is a halfhearted stab at SCHIP with lipstick (hat tip to whoever came up with that), and McCain’s is a bandaid, so advantage to neither there. One’s as good as the other, and at least McCain has bucked his party a bit to even address it at all, so kudos for courage there.

    The only two with a genuine plan got shouted down.

  192. myiq2xu: Jennifer Aniston is still out there as well as Kate Hudson. They haven’t had a boyfriend in over a week. Just saying.

  193. I can not believe the Obots at Politico. They all think that McCain’s response was ineffective. I really do not know what planet they are from. Someone even referred to McCain as McPOW. If those were my children, I would be embarrassed.

  194. #
    democracyfirst, on August 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am Said:

    I agree completely. I have been waiting for Hillary to make a move, any move, to protect our country. I do not want to believe she will continue to put party above country, even when the party is now corrupt.

    It has to be now – or very soon. It is possible she is waiting until after the convention. It seems something is up. We can’t know what it is but I have a far-fetched hunch.

    I just had the craziest thought. Is there any way McCain would pick Hillary as HIS running mate? And if she thought it was best for the country, would she accept?

  195. Honora: They’re not my children and I’m embarrassed. They’re like those kids throwing a tantrum in the store when mommy says no for the first time ever. She refuses to discipline or silence them and they just keep at it, louder and louder.

  196. Like most of you, I would love to see Hillary RISE and take on the Dark Lord and his minions, but this is real life and she has already suffered and been abused more than anyone I can remember in the political process.

    If she needs to take the four years and consolidate again for a run in 2012, that is alright with me.

    It is easy for us at home sitting at our computers to want someone to sacrifice everything they have worked for their entire life. And not to even be assured that anything would come of it except for the minority of people who blog. Most of the 18 million who voted for her have little or no knowledge of all the intricacies of the issues we deal with daily. The DNC and MSM will continue to crucify her, and the support she did have from Dem delegates will disappear overnight. They have shown NO courrage even in a “legitimate” campaign.

    She would be virtually by herself. She could accomplish so much more by waiting, being Pres in 2102, and revamping the Dem party from that point.

  197. Creeper, you’re late! We’ve been tossing that in the ring for months.

    It’s pretty much a no-go at the moment but man would it win. It would make my life.

  198. We knew that Clinton would be blamed for Barky’s inevitable failure. But of all the asinine ways to rationalize it, saying that McCain learned all those dirty Barky-beating tricks from Hillary–that has to be the worst. Hey, guys, you don’t suppose she could’ve figured out a way to beat McCain, too, huh? Of course not.

    These people are just plain f’ing stupid.

  199. Eeek!! I’m in moderation! Something I said?

  200. B.O. probably doesn’t realize that those recent pics of him with his shoulder-strap bag looks too European for most Americans. Can’t imagine McCain with one of those slings—-.

  201. […] Thursday: Hillary’s Loyalty to what is left (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) […]

  202. creeper – I read he showed over 10k ads in Florida. McCain is still whooping his a** in Florida.

    Of course, our Hillary is in Florida fighting the storms, hurricane and tornados, to bring in the state for BO. Hopefully, she clicks her ruby red slippers and heads back to NY and declares “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore!”

    Go for it Hillary!


  203. An excerpt from Hillbuzz.

    From what we hear on the ground here in Chicago, there’s something big erupting relating to these papers, BAIPA, and the sudden, odd retirement of State Senate President Emile Jones (SoetorObama’s mentor, and ladder to his US Senate seat). And, all of this is connected to Tony Rezko somehow, but it’s a complicated web prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is still working on, making progress daily, with perhaps new developments come October.

  204. I’m waiting for Faith Hill to get tired of Tim McGraw.

    When she does, I’ll make my move.

  205. Does anyone have a new post ready?

    If not, I do

  206. Is Faith Hill featured?

  207. myiq, looks like no one has anything.

  208. I don’t have anything, and it doesn’t look like anyone is working on anything…..

  209. SM is probably submerged underwater down there.

  210. Emile Jones is trying to give his seat to his son, who did not attend college and somehow manages to make 65k a year in a state contracting position.

  211. Fitzgerald can’t get to it til October?!?!? So if Bayh or Sebelius are the change’ling’s choice, and something huge is released, we are stuck with dumb or dumber?

  212. New thread, nothing new and exciting, but I wanted to consolidate it into a single post.

  213. I don’t know if you have all seen this, but its about Hillary’s debt.


  214. Kim and Pat Johnson…..I’m with you. I’ve seen comments by some people saying how hard it is to go against the party. That really isn’t a problem for me. I hate being taken advantage of, I hate being taken for granted and I damn sure hate being manipulated.

    They can try to throw me under the bus, but I’ve got news for them, I won’t stay there and I’ll get my own bus and drive it to the end.

    Mountain Sage

  215. You rock, Riverdaughter. I just wanted to check in with you all at the Confluence to thank you for your great posts and to thank you for bringing me out of the lurk zone. Reading your site and HRC’s in May and June really inspired me to get involved.

    Kind of limited, however, when it comes to travel, as I have my two little dragonflies to keep up with. Even though I can’t go to Denver, I’ve contributed money to PUMA Pac to help out someone who needed it. I will be watching the convention and hope to see some of you there.

    Yes, McCain will win Florida if Hillary does not get the nomination next week. So sad about Congresswoman Tubbs Jones. What a lovely, inspiring person she was.

    Heather aka Dragonfly at pumapac dot org
    HILLARY ’08

  216. OH RD!

    It’s about time somebody expressed it all this eloquently! Wow.
    There is something very wrong with this whole deal since 2000.

    Hillary was OUR HOPE! the familiarity, geniality, good Clinton years.
    The rest?
    What a bunch of bankrupting mofos. GRAFT!

    hugs RD. & Co.
    HILLARY should GET LOUD! Re, what they did! Like Pelosi/Brazile.
    Rotten to the core it must be……

  217. I reviewed the filings at FEC.GOV for p/e 7/31/08. HRC received $2,020,623.83 from individuals & political committees.

    Her debt including the $13,175,000 loan to the campaign is $23,973,973.60….Therefore, she still needs to raise $10,798,973.60 to pay vendors.

    I believe the rules are that she cannot raise funds to repay herself after the convention except for $250,000…of course she cannot repay herself until she pays her vendors.

    She has approx. $25.1M cash on hand for the GE which cannot be used to offset primary expenses.

    Since I am maxed out, I going to ask my friends & the Obots in my office to donate on her website.

    Let’s help her clear this debt. Thanks.

  218. A couple of weeks ago, Pa.’s Gov. was still trying to get us to come along quietly, and Howard the Coward was still ignoring us, as if that would magically make us disappear.

    Now, Ed.Rendell says he is glad of the chance to vote for Hillary at the convention. A chance we gave him. If not for PUMA and the other groups there would be no nomination, ballot, or admission of what Hillary managed in the spring.

    Now, today, Howard the Coward is saying that the party would be better served to get rid of caucuses and to redo the primary order, so that states don’t feel pushed out of the decision making process. Hm-m. That all sounds terribly familiar.

    So, we have pushed long enough to get past a couple of squares on this board game. How much further can we push? Probably not far enough to undo what happened in the spring. It is too late. That well has been poisened, and I can’t see any way in a couple days to dig a new one.

    What has happened, though, is that they have had to admit that they are not the Party without us. They can’t do this without us, and they want us back, badly.

    I can see the picture at night, Howard sitting on the edge of his bed, muttering'” What do they want?”

    He knows what we want. He wants to make a deal. Just let him have the black guy and we can have a reformed system in four years, We can even hear delegates ( not all of her delegates, they have poached a whole bunch) vote for Hillary. Just let him have Obama, and we can have some of the other stuff.

    Well, you know what, Howard… I am pretty sure we aren’t going to get what we really want. YOu have messed things up too badly for that. But, guess what…you aren’t getting what you want either. You aren’t getting Obama in November. And you aren’t getting the power of the Democratic Party back, either. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a brand-new party rise up and challenge both of the big boys. We, the people, have had it. We have been willing to help, and stuff envelopes, and knock on doors, and make calls, and give money even when you went in questionable directions, because we thought it was the best we could do. Now, people like Riverdaughter, and Heidi Li, and Dakinikat ( to name only a few) have shown us that we can do a lot better. People like Ed from Texas, and Roof Doctor and all the others going to Denver, and raising money, and talking to their neighbors. Yes, we can do alot better than what you are pushing on us, and you have had your chance.

    I would say you have just a few days to enjoy, maybe go to Invesco field, then go on back to your offices, and see how many people have dropped out of your party. That should give you a real good picture of what November will be like in Obamaland. And after that, don’t even think we are going away. I have been trying to think of a name for the new party. Its just a thought,but how about the NEW PARTY.

  219. Out next goal…….The New Party.


  221. warrior princess – PUMA HAKA 👿


  222. I’m #241. Haven’t read all the posts yet, but this is a huge thread. Anybody noting the threads getting longer faster? We’re coming to the home stretch.

    Looking at the first couple of posts, I’d say unsuspending (IS there such a word?) now is a little too early. It gives Obama too much time to put together some dastardly plan. It needs to be a suprise desuspension (not a word either – funny huh?). I say on the convention floor, and she does it because it’s clear that nothing else will satisfy everybody inside and outside the convention center, and there is no altenative and after her sd’s who also said they were supporting obama but aren’t, have a chance to do some – oh-oh, am I gonna say it? CAUCUSING !! C’mon, y’all didn’t really think Charlie Rangel, Sheila Jackson Lee and Debbie Wasserman Schutz actually tanked for obama, did you?l

  223. Warrior: The Blog Party; The Threadpost Party; The Browser Party.
    Actually, I’d like it called “The Interweb” Party just because it’s funny and, unlike Obama, we and our candidate never lost out sense of humor. Does Obama ever actually laugh – I mean burst out like Hillary does? I don’t think so.

  224. myiq2xu, on August 21st, 2008 at 8:52 am Said:
    All the ad money in the world can’t change chicken shit into chicken soup


    *hangs head, throws three curatorships and two national awards into the traditional Fellows cardboard box, and exits stage left…can’t possibly compete!*

  225. Let me put it this way, if you were to see Obama break out laughing, I would get the heck out of there, fast. There are just some things that healthy humans aren’t supposed to experience.

    It would just be nice for the delegates, auto and reg. to think about the character of the person they are crawling in bed with.

    Short story, years ago, I owned a pretty good sized disco ( yeah, I know, 70’s, what can I say). I had several good years, then things got slow, and it was harder and harder to make ends meet. One night my landlord walked in and sat down. He was a nice Italian man, and everyone in the area knew, or presumed that he was connected. He had a proposition for me, close the bar to the public a couple of nights a week, and let him take over with his friends. There was something said about movies, and whatever else he said,I just didn’t hear. I was scared ——-ess for a couple of days, and I did need the money, but then I started thinking. Considering who he was and what he was offering, why should I beleive him anyway? No honor among theives. I called him up and said,”respectfully, no.” I had to be respectful about it. Anyway, he said okay and left me alone. I didn’t get rich, but I also didn’t get into something that I had no idea how to get out of.

    I have to think that this is where the delegates find themselves. They have seen all this, they know what is going on, and even if it is to their advantage right now,they have to remember that if the winds change, without loyalty, they cannot count on anything. I just want them to understand, going in, that they can’t count on us,either. Tough love? You make your bed, you lie in it.

  226. I think it is so very sad that you would prefer to have a womanizer and one who has never voted for a woman’s issue (and will get Roe V Wade overturned as soon as he can) become president. It is also sad that you are all acting like spoiled children that didn’t get your way. I am a 55 yo female who was supporting HRC until I saw the way she started acting. She was going to be “100% behind the nominee and work hard to get that person elected” as was Bill (who is also acting like a spoiled child). Can you people not think past your own selfish “wants”? This is our country you are “playing” with. You are all so vindictive. It is sad that HRC thinks this is all OK and she is still talking about “her opponent”…..Think about what kind of a impressions you are leaving “your daughters”….a vindictive, ungraceful, sore loser mentality…..very sad……..You should show everyone that we women are better than that and won’t stoop to childish games. It is a sad commentary on women and I am embarrased for you.

  227. Hey, Suzanne — Does Axelrod pay by the hour, or is it piecework? Is there some kind of incentive structure? Do you know where I can send my resume? Thanks.

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