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Tuesday: Fear of Foolishness

Doubters, awake!  Yes, I know who you are.  You’re the ones who say, “I consider myself a PUMA for lots of reasons but I’m not crazy enough to think she can actually get the nomination.”

‘Fess up.  You guys are all over the place.  You hang out here and Corrente and Alegre’s Corner and TalkLeft, of all places, where BTD has actually called us “nuts” and “Wrongheaded”.

Ok, let’s examine this for a minute: We have a candidate that nobody much likes, who lacks the weightiness of a substantial resume and the ability to speak in coherent sentences, going up against a man with more intestinal fortitude and clarity in his piggy toe than Obama has in his long, skinny body.  OUR candidate has a new campaign technique where he attempts to win votes by systematically insulting every voting bloc he will eventually need in the mistaken belief that we enjoy dancing to the masochism tango.  Barack Obama has spent his entire life climbing that ladder of success by not doing much of anything but schmoozing.

Large swaths of people out there are not warming up to him.  He has been unable to break the 50% mark in the polls.  In fact, his numbers are declining while McCain, who hasn’t really started to campaign with the GOP big guns, is holding his own or increasing slightly.  And in this chaotic landscape and ominous omens for the fall (he’s going to LOSE, DNC, LOSE!  BIG time!), we have a number of bloggy solons tsk-tsking and patting us on the head with a knowing smile and telling us we’re out of our minds.  We’re wrongheaded, like little children who need to be schooled.  Oh, they ackowledge that everything we say is true.  Obama really *is* acting like an arrogant ass who can’t debate, who whines if he loses, who has all the experience and gravitas of a butterfly and whose campaign organization with its strong armed tactics in the caucuses and deep pockets for the superdelegates are primarily responsible for his success thus far.  They too are both fascinated and horrified at what is about to happen in the fall.  But THEY are not foolish.

No, it is much safer from a social standpoint to just watch the house of cards collapse and say, “I told you so” to the DNC in mid-November.  They don’t want McCain to win but running around with their hair on fire yelling, “They must be stopped!” is making a scene and they don’t want to be thought of as hysterical.  They know, now, that Hillary was the better candidate and more electable and would give John McCain a run for his money and would neutralize the effect of the media because, after all, what could they *possibly* throw at her now that we haven’t already seen?  But even as they acknowledge their stupidity during the primary season for letting themselves be swept away by the Obama spring fling instead of sticking with the earnest and faithful guy, they can’t quite muster the courage to say that they would prefer she were in the driver’s seat headed into the fall.

I guess it has something to do with the fact that the Obama campaign has created an image of his inevitabilty.  He has the convention nailed down to the very last jot and tittle (er, until last week, when he didn’t).  He has all of the superdelegates lined up, except for the ones that he doesn’t.  He’s been to Europe to give a series of well attended public soirees, that went over like a lead balloon.  He has rented Invesco Field for his investiture and sent out the invitations.  Wouldn’t it just be embarrassing for him if we made him cancel his plans?

Damn right it’s embarrassing.  But considerably less so than losing the election in the fall, the third in a row, in a year when Democrats had every possible advantage going for them.  We could not lose, we told ourselves.  And now, we’re looking like the biggest losers on the planet.  Who will take us seriously after this?  Hey, if those older, wiser bloggers want to spare Obama embarrassment, what else are they going to overlook in Obama when he puts himself in a compromising situation?  And what about the old saying about not counting your chickens before they hatch?  Why aren’t we calling Obama and the DNC fools for putting the cart before the donkey?  Like, shouldn’t Obama be required to pass some kind of test demonstrating that he has earned the confidence of a majority of the Democrats before we give him the car keys?  Shouldn’t we expect him to compete on a level playing field with his closest rival who won more of the bigger and more significant states?  Isn’t that fair to US?

Princess Wears Prada reminded us of something the other day.  She says you don’t get something you want if you don’t ask.  I want Hillary to be my nominee.  I have a zillion reasons why she would be a better nominee and president than Barack Obama or John McCain. At this point in time, not only is it logical and rational to ask for this but it is very possible for it to happen.  All we need is for the Credentials Committee to restore Florida and Michigan to full strength and strip Obama of unearned delegates.  Then we need a nomination and roll call for Hillary with a majority of pledged and superdelegates voting for her and voile!  It’s done.  We’re back on track for winning the White House.  If necessary, we offer Obama the VP spot so he actually has a full time job for once in his life and we can assess whether he’s up to the demands of the job.  It’s so perfectly logical, straigtforward and sane that I have every expectation that it will happen.

In any case, I am not going to sit around caustically complaining about how stupidly Obama has behaved and then resign myself to his nomination.  That is another form of learned helplessness and I’m just so not into that.  The Obama camp has been very good at pushing learned helplessness and “we must not embarrass the precious, he’s been waiting all year for that pony.”  But Obama is applying for President of the United States.  In the next four years, embarrassment is the least of his worries.

Nope, I want to win.  The only shot we have of actually winning is with Hillary in the top spot.  So, that’s what I am asking for.  To do anything less is just nuts.

379 Responses

  1. Thanks. I needed that.

  2. That transparent, eh?

  3. Good Morning Riverdaughter,

    Reading this post is great way to start the morning!
    You said everything that was on my mind.

    I needed this.

  4. “Fess up. ”

    Fessing up. Guilty as charged on count one. Plead “not guilty” to the rest.

    I don’t hang out at Corrente or TL. I stopped visiting TM in June. Did not go back there even to read her take on Obama’s Saddleback performance. Have not visited MyDD since June. Don’t go to Corrente or TL. I believe in being nice to me.

    I am not very optimistic about Hill’s prospects this time around. And I sure do hope he won’t ask her to VP. Trooper that she is, she might just accept (Yuck). Don’t even want to think about that … being nice to me.

  5. Well, a convention that ends with HRC’s nomination would certainly make for interesting television: a massive brawl of a floor fight, demonstrations and counter-demonstrations, maybe even some riots in the streets. Not having been around for Chicago 68, it would give me the chance to experience the thrill of a trainwreck convention.

    But I can’t see how the nomination does Hillary any good. You can’t seriously think that the mindless Obots would vote for her after THE ONE is unceremoniously rejected, especially after Hillary endorsed him. And without the Obot votes and all the cash BO has raised, Hillary can’t hope to win in Nov.

    Still, it would be quite a spectacle.

  6. janicen: I like to think that my morning posts are your daily dose of Hai Karate.

  7. Florida Surfer: I have every expectation that the persons responsible will not let momentary discomfort overwhelm their obligation to do the right thing.

  8. You see, by now, I should be folding fliers for the D du jour in my area…..this year, not so much…..

    Probably all that will change after the Cirque show at Denver, inspiring, moving, unifying…all of that and entertaining too.

    Bad, exD.

  9. @RD: Do you mean that the Obots will “get over it” and support HRC in Nov? The odds on that seem as good as PUMAs “getting over it” and backing BO.

  10. LOL RD! Hai Karate. Now that’s a blast from the past. I guess I’m giving away my age.

  11. That needed to be said, RD, and I am so glad that it is out there now.

    Not only would Obama absolutely LOSE in november, but even if, say, he did somehow get POTUS—he would be just as much of a disaster for the US as any Republican President. No difference in the continuing of Bush and Cheney’s destruction of the United States ideals, laws and principles, between McCain and whatever pathetic joke of a Presidency Obama would have. Don’t people love their children and grandchildren enough to take a stand in the defense of their future?

  12. Florida Surfer: Ahhh, but the difference is that for the Obama supporters who are not zealots, the support is soft (trust me on this, I met them while I was canvassing). Some of them are dying for an excuse right now to dump him.
    Then there are the demographics. Obama can not expand his base outside of the Democratic party. Nah gah happen. BUT Hillary can poach moderate suburban Republican women with abandon. (trust me on this, I met them while canvassing)
    But I think the unity ticket with her in the top spot is the ONLY winning ticket. Most rational Obama supporters will understand. The others claim they are terrified of a Republican president. I’d say they have nowhere else to go.

  13. RD:

    Obama can’t even expand his base IN the Democratic party.

  14. OK, so besides H being nominated at the convention (riots I tell you)….

    what happens to all those O “supporters” (like TM) who still think H would make a great VP?

    Will they remain “supporters” after they get their text message?

    Will they hold their noses a la “true progressive”, morph into yet another political force, be absorbed by JSND coalition, become Reagan Ds?

    So many questions….now, where is my text message?

  15. Actually, Sen/ Obama and he DNC seem to be pushing people out of the Democratic Party. This may be the greatest exodus since the Reagan era.

  16. “Most rational Obama supporters will understand.” heh.

    What about “they have nowhere to go”? I personally love that one.

    “We” are so f*cked.

  17. I agree that much of Obama’s support is “soft”. When I talk to elderly relatives who are Clinton Democrats, they act like they have no choice but to vote for Obama, but they are not happy about it. When I tell them that they don’t have to vote for Obama, they can vote McCain or not vote for President at all, it’s like opening their eyes for the first time. These are people who have voted for the Democrat for 50 years or more who know nothing else. When I tell them they have a choice all I hear is, “Thank you. I’m so glad I talked to you. I’m going to tell my friends.”

    Now I’m going to make some calls and tell them not to give up on Hillary.

  18. RD: I haven’t seen a lot of recent polling data, but I recall that there were pretty significant splits — roughly 1/3 of HRC supporters were reluctant to vote for BO, and about the same with BO supporters who wouldn’t be happy with HRC.

    But in the scenario you imagine, supporters of BO will claim that the nomination was “stolen” and the same dynamic that launched PUMA will be at work against HRC.

    Add to that the fact that a trainwreck convention will seriously tarnish HRC’s image (and indeed the Democratic brand generally), throw in HRC’s lack of anything approaching a national campaign organization, subtract all of the money that BO has raised (and won’t spend on HRC), and you have an impossible task to get HRC in the white house.

    Still, it would make for a highly amusing convention. No doubt about that.

  19. Those afraid of the spectacle of O. being rejected are just postponing the fun. He will be rejected in November, and I was told by several knowing people within the O-supporting demographic, that there will be “blood in the streets” if McCain wins. I am not sure, but I believe that statement was not proverbial.

  20. Janice: “When I tell them they have a choice all I hear is, “Thank you. I’m so glad I talked to you. I’m going to tell my friends.”

    I think Janice that you are definitely not one of the ones the O campaign had been waiting for..(or expecting, like Murphy, I think, put it)

  21. Great post…thank you! I needed that after glancing at my dad’s NYTimes this morning.

  22. Thank you riverdaughter!

    I have been noticing the past week comments all over the place resigning themselves that Obama will be the nominee. And believe me that is very different from what I was reading the previous weeks.

    Florida Surfer: I call BS on the fact that if Hillary is nominated there will be brawls. In fact, there are many Obama supporters out there who have now changed their mind about him and would like to see Hillary as nominee. The brawl talk, the inevitablility are all Obama camp talking points spread around trying to get everyone to believe there is something to it.

    2012 is too long to wait for Hillary, she needs to be nominated in ’08.

  23. Upstate: Who has time for riots these days? You just end up dragging your ass in the morning on the way to work. PLEASE. Let’s not have any more talk about riots.
    If Obama is half the man he claims to be, he’ll find a way to smooth the waters.

  24. cbn: Trolls are very sophisticated these days. Before you know it, you’re sucked in to being just another depressed lab rat in their experiment.
    Knowledge is power

  25. If there is a sea change among the supers, they will get together behind closed doors and broker a deal with O as VP and present it as best for the party, strongest ticket etc. and O is young and will gain the experience he lacks and be ready to take over in 8 years. but that would require a sea change. We need more drama before the convention. O has to make a mistake or something. We are so close but I just don’t see it yet.

  26. Fair enough, RD…plus, isn’t it up to the candidate who looses to rally its supporters behind the winner?

    There you go…

  27. UpstateNY, I think it’s something like, “We are the ones they were not expecting..” and it’s right on point.

    The entire primary was a “fairy tale” of huge financial contributions from Republicans and phoney caucus results achieved by bussing “voters” from one state to another since, as we have learned, there was to be no verification of eligibility at the caucuses. Now it is assumed that we will all shrug our shoulders and fall in line and make up for the fake votes in the primary.

    I guess we just didn’t get the memo.

  28. angry artist: “We need more drama before the convention.”

    I. for one, have had enough drama this primary.

  29. cbn: Have you seen the video of the 68 Dem convention? Why would the delegates in Denver be any better behaved than those in Chicago forty years ago? Any scenario that leads to HRC’s nomination would almost certainly provoke that kind of floor fight, if not worse. Will there be disturbances in the streets to match those of long ago in Chicago? That’s another issue, but certainly the elements are there: tens of thousands of Obots prepared for the coronation at Invesco field, a nasty floor fight that gets things rolling, etc., etc.

    Definitely TV worth watching.

  30. I mean he IS a MISTAKE, but we seem to need another big mistake to topple this.

    It is sad that the country no longer allows peaceful demonstrations and now locks away peaceful protesters. I was in Washington for the peace rallies against the Vietnam war and it was democracy in action. I hope the pumas have enough of a presence in Denver to really embarrass and make trouble for this nominee if it happens.

  31. Any drama that dethrones O is fine with me….I would relish it.

  32. The replacement of delegates so that Obama will win rollcall at convention needs to be highlighted in the media. Lou Dobbs maybe.

  33. I agree. How many are there?

  34. My father, who is 90, keeps saying that bill has been exceedingly quiet…..that he has never seen bill SO quiet for SO long. He thinks Bill has something going on. what do you think? The clintons did put their hear, soul and a lot of $ into this. will they really roll over so easily?

  35. That is what the conventions are for—to work out the kinks, like say rage of the sure-fire LOSER’s supporters who want to stay in denial.

  36. Good question: Have we seen this before in primary history? A tight race where the *favored* candidate is usurped through a floor vote?

  37. It’ll never happen. I can’t even think of one lousy Democrat who would support this (the Clintons don’t count and I doubt they would try and pull it off; they, too, seem taken aback by the utter batshittery of the DNC).

  38. There’s lots of good folk at other sites. I hang out at Corrente (Lambert/Vastleft), TalkLeft (Jeralyn) and No Quarter (Uppity). I enjoy they’re writing and get lots of good info there and the counterarguments keep you in touch with where the Obamacans are.

  39. It will happen. I am sure of it.

  40. Ah, a naysayer. Well, we’ll have to wait and see. Stranger things have happened in this primary race.

  41. Re Bill, It’s possible he’s working on something. He’s a veeeeery persuasive man.

  42. angry: If there is going to be breaking news of a negative variety on Obama, I would expect it to come out in the next day or two.

  43. Another display of bullying from the Obama camp. Arrange a stadium of supporters to bully people in accepting him as nominee. That’s what will be written in the history books.

    History will show he was never favored for nominee.

    All DNC leaders need to step down.

  44. Holy Koresh!

    Roseanne Barr is bashing Jon Voight, Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt for not drinking the Uh-bama kool-aid.

    The Obots just can’t help themselves, can they?

  45. Elixir: “I enjoy they’re writing and get lots of good info there and the counterarguments keep you in touch with where the Obamacans are.”

    sorry, I do not understand the Obamacans part (I am kind of dense)..explain pretty please? Thanks

  46. Davidson: Never say never. Besides, what’s the harm of asking? The country is dying for a ticket like that. They will rally behind it.
    If we all ask together, it will be a lot more persuasive. What’s the worst that could happen?

  47. myiq: Holy Shit! Brangelina is not an Obamaphile? Will miracles never cease. By the way, the Make It Right foundation is one of my favorite causes.

  48. Myq2xu
    Not her latest! She decided she hates Oprah more – in her latest entry she wanted B0 to lose 😉
    And a good article

  49. Just to make this more painful to watch, the NYT says a poll of delegates shows HRC favored as VP choice:

    “Indeed, a recent New York Times/CBS News poll of convention delegates found that 28 percent preferred Mrs. Clinton for vice president — by far the largest bloc supporting a candidate. (More than a third offered no opinion; 6 in 10 of Clinton-pledged delegates wanted her, but only 3 percent of Obama delegates named her.)”


  50. Ruh-roh. It sounds like that NYT poll is setting the public up for a huge, crushing disappointment if Obama doesn’t pick her.

  51. Well, you know, Jolie and Clinton are related after all….

  52. I prefer to “keep hope alive”. He is such a dismal candidate from all perspectives and then having him being shoved down my throat for the sake of “party unity” goes against every fiber in my being. The only way that this can happen is for the supers to do the right thing and cast their votes for the one candidate who can surely win in November. Everything rides on this.

    The DNC will not pull back. The Obama campaign will not reconsider. It all rides on the supers. As for rioting in the streets, that is for the Obama campaign to control. It is their image that will be tarnished in the future if this gets out of hand, not Hillary’s fault should this work in her favor. But it would not surprise me since these are the tactics we have seen happening right along.

  53. I know it may please some, but I just do not see H in the VP spot…sorry but it is counter intuitive…

  54. RD wins the gold for this:

    bloggy solons

    I hope it enters common usage.


  55. So, how is Talaxia? We have missed you over here.

  56. riverdaughter, on August 19th, 2008 at 8:41 am Said:
    cbn: Trolls are very sophisticated these days. Before you know it, you’re sucked in to being just another depressed lab rat in their experiment.
    Knowledge is power

    Thank you, RD! Now I’m a happy ‘rattus norvegicus’!

  57. I know it was obliterated and all…but you know what I mean.

  58. Me and an Obama delegate I know both got letters from the Denver Group (though, as a HRC delegate, I had an “extra” letter in mine!). So, there are getting their word out.

    Watching all the comments…I think it is healthy for HRC delegates to fight as is they are going to win, no matter how unlikely it may be. If we lose on the first ballot once the superdelegates vote, there you go!

    Though, it would be interested if people reached out to the Edwards delegates and see if they are persuade-able. Or if some superdelegates “accidentally” got locked in a room when voting begins (j/k!).

    It will also be interesting if, just to make a point, there could be a floor nomination for HRC for VP. I don’t want her to be, but I think nominating her shows we aren’t going anywhere.

    In any case, if anyone hasn’t watched this in awhile…

  59. We have been watching a very arrogant and prideful man over this campaign season. He will never pick Hillary Clinton for VP. It would go against his grain altogether. To do so would tarnish his own image of himself. He cannot afford to come across as “pu**ywhipped” by choosing her and to be overshadowed by her presence. And I don’t think he cares very much about women to begin with. Hillary will not be his choice for obvious reasons.

  60. RD: Oh, without question, my ideal solution to this mess would be Clinton/Obama, but it’ll never happen. Ever. Right now, I occasionally daydream that Obama has to ask Clinton to be her VP and she refuses, using it as leverage to catapult her to the top of the ticket. But again, it’s just a fantasy.

    There’s no harm in trying, true, but we’re not up against rational people. We’re up against crazy and nothing beats crazy.

    Oh, and someone else mentioned Bill: How odd is it that although Bill said he preferred Obama’s energy policy he praised McCain for being the best Republican on global warming. Interesting. Gore seems to be rather agreeable to McCain, too.

  61. Last Chance to Lobby Delegates Before Nomination
    Tuesday, August 19, 2008

    LINK: http://lobbydelegates.com/

    Dear Super Delegate Lobbyist:

    Thanks to YOU — and over 25,000 other users — Super Delegates are hearing the views of rank-and-file Democrats about who to choose as the Party’s Presidential nominee.

    You know how close this year’s Democratic Primary contest was, and you know the unprecedented power Super Delegates were given over the nomination battle between Senators Clinton and Obama. You also know that LobbyDelegates.com provided the ONLY means for you and other rank-and-file voters to influence Super Delegates, who could nominate whoever they desired, regardless of which candidate won the primary in your state or any other.

    We at the StateDemocracy Foundation hope you appreciate that our LobbyDelegates.com website was absolutely crucial in allowing at least some popular input into a decision-making process that threatened to substitute the will of an elite few Super Delegates for the Will of The People.

    You now have one last chance to lobby these 800+ top party officials before they vote August 28 at the Denver National Convention, and we encourage you to do so again by going to LobbyDelegates.com.

    Remember, email is FREE, as is printing out your addressed letters to stamp and mail to the Super Delegates you desire. With time of such essence, you may wish to FAX your message by making a $5 minimum donation to our StateDemocracy Foundation (to cover our fax vendor costs).

    The StateDemocracy Foundation thanks you for supporting LobbyDelegates.com, and we especially appreciate those of you who made a contribution to partially help underwrite this public interest initiative.

    Please consider making another tax-deductible contribution (or your first one) to support LobbyDelegates.com and our other efforts promoting civic engagement — such as StateDemocracy.org, our free, 1-stop portal connecting constituents to their state and federal lawmakers. You can also visit StateDemocracy.org for access to voter registration, absentee ballots and polling place locators for jurisdictions throughout the nation.


    Ken Laureys
    Executive Director
    StateDemocracy Foundation

  62. Thank you for this post, Riverdaughter. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, from W. Somerset Maugham: “It’s a funny thing about life; if you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it.” I refuse to accept anything but Hillary Clinton.

  63. Talaxians are, as always, keeping morale up.

  64. Good on ya, RD.

    I have no idea what will happen, but nothing happens if someone doesn’t talk back to the conventional wisdom machine.

    And you’re doing it great.

  65. No, WE CAN’T LOSE OURSELVES!!! Beautifully said!!!!

    Re: Casserole-gate…

    So, Now Hillary Should “Bring a Casserole” to the Convention???


    “Ok, so what kind of casserole should she bring? Isn’t that the crucial question we should be asking now??

    Should it be the ever-popular cream of mushroom soup/tuna casserole? Perhaps the classic green bean/cream of mushroom side dish?? Something with a little leftover turkey in it, perhaps?? Should she wear a pink, frilly apron when she delivers it? Or perhaps she should serve it in stilletos and a topless French maid’s outfit?

    Shoot, Hillary doesn’t like baking cookies, and you expect her to bring a casserole??? How about bringing her brain along as an appetizer??”

  66. UpstateNY – People always think you can obliterate cultures by destroying homes. It never works, because life finds a way. My Talaxian grandmother always has said so.

    Obama is making a similar mistake. He thinks that by destroying Hillary (as if it were possible) will obliterate opposition.

    I wish my Talaxian grandmother had spoken to him before she died.

  67. Here’s another reason why it’ll be so damn difficult for rationality to prevail in Denver: not only does HRC have to convince cowardly, bought for supers to pick her but she also has to contend with the fact Obama poached plenty of her pledged delegates already from various states (e.g., Nevada, Texas). Oh, and that’s without taking into account the travesty that was the MI decision, stealing her delegates and giving him all the “uncommitted.”

  68. I just did my PUMA prowl for today and this is what I faxed to Hillary:

    The past week’s events in Georgia and the public comments of Barack Obama and John McCain make it clearer to me than ever that you are the most qualified person to lead this country now, a time of increasing security threats from many sources. Those men are simply not good enough – their experience is way too thin. Please fight for the nomination and PLEASE do not release your delegates. Many millions support you and know that your fighting for the Democratic nomination is in the best interests of this country.

  69. Thanks RD for the post. It is a shame that so many still think they have no choice. But we have got to remember, a lot of seniors do not go on the internet, they don’t read the blogs. We still have work to do by talking face to face. Let them know, we do have a choice.
    I agree with with you about stopping all this talk on riots. I have been present in some of those riots. It is not something you want to go through. The media is again trying to control us, put FEAR in us. Do not let them. They are not only trying to instill fear in people, they are giving the sickos out there ideas. There are always those types in the mix…and they know it. Like the trolls…..our battle is with facts….somthing they know little about.

  70. I’m with you, Riverdaughter, 100%. That’s why I’m going to Denver. We need bodies to influence the facts on the ground, and to report them. You can count on me.

    And I can’t wait to meet you!

  71. Me again 🙂

    There are enough Obama supporters still who *are* zealots that they’d be a spoiler. And they’d immediately start spinning this as a betrayal of party procedure. After all, many Obama supporters are Anybody But Hillary people.

    Contrary to what some of you might think of me, I happen to agree with y’all that Obama was a mistake or at least a rather odd risk to take, even though my motivations seem to be rather different. But now that he’s basically been crowned in advance, there’s no good way to back out of this mess, because it’s really easy for the diehard Obama supporters to spin any such thing as a “theft” even though it may be entirely within party procedure.

    And even with soft Obama votes, I still believe that there are *still* enough diehard Obama supporters and/or Anybody But Hillary supporters to make Hillary lose.

    Since you people represent the same for Hillary, it’s a nice little pickle of a dilemma that the party has been put into. Given that there is this dilemma, you can see that the party leaders will want to stick to the closest to status quo they can.

  72. That photo of Ayers stomping on the flag is so damning. He looks like he’s doing the twist on top of the flag. (And having a heckuva a good time doing it.)

    In my own mind, I call that photo “Flag Dance.”

    I hope someone will animate it to the song “Flash Dance.” It would go viral, I’m sure.

  73. For all of you that say there would be a revolt of Obots, would that be the case if Obama himself were onboard? They’ve been making Hillary ride the unity pony since june, don’t you think if they went for Hillary they would do the same thing to him? Would his followeres abandon him? He really is the key imo. If he truly loves his party he himself will admit to not being able to seal the deal and concede in favor of the better candidate. That’s the only way I believe that we can go on to victory in november. He really needs to do the right thing for his party and accept the VP slot and allow Hillary to take the lead. It’s the only way out of this mess.

  74. Mandos:

    Hillary will do a far better job winning over disaffected Obots than Obama will her supporters.

    In the first place, she will actually try to reach out to them, instead of driving them away.

    Secondly, most HillaryHate is based on lies, rather than any rational basis.

    Obama can’t make himself more experienced between now and November, nor can he unplay the race card.

  75. Thanks Riverdaughter. I like the Carrie Underwood song to start my morning as well.

    The only good thing I see with Obama as nominee is that he will lose and go away for a long while. I don’t want Hillary associated with Obama at all and that also includes her having to pick him as VP is she is the nominee. No matter how much I want to see Hillary in the White House next year, I think Obama in the White House will bring Hillary much problems. I don’t trust him at all and I think his arrogance and jealousy or resentment will make him do things that will embarrass Hillary or Bill.

    I want to see Obama feel horrible after he loses nearly every state in America. I want our anger to be used to get rid of Pelosi, Dean, and Brazille among the other Democrats who smeared the Clintons. I want Hillary to come back in 2012 free of any obligations to Obama and his minions and pick a VP who will actually help her do good work. Someone like Wesley Clark. Obama needs to have his political career absolutely destroyed like John Edwards. I think that will happen if he is the nominee because the GOP is the only ones who can unleash all of his secrets, wrongdoings, and associations with criminals, terrorists, and ranting lunatics to tear him down.

    It’s the only reason why I would want to see Obama as the nominee.

  76. I am guilty too. If not for folks who don’t give up despite the odds Hillary would not have a roll call vote.

    We need to have faith in the delegates and superdelegates.

    There was a beatiful comment #42 at tominpaine about the Clintons having faith in the voters that was a really nice read.

  77. myiq2xu: So, outreach. This is where the Hillary campaign fell down on the first time around. Their blogospheric outreach was very poor, and partly stemmed from the fact that Kos et al. were never confident that they’d have party prominence with Hillary in charge, because she was never an internet-driven phenomenon.

    And the lack of blogospheric outreach and failure to learn the lessons of the Dean campaign—even though it failed, it planted seeds that sprouted one way or another this time around—was a major contributing factor to the closeness of what should not have been a close race for her.

    Because of past history, I’m not nearly as confident as you that her outreach would be so easily successful if she were to win. She represents a campaign style that IS actually one of the objections of her detractors. It may never have been possible for her to do the correct outreach. If she couldn’t do it then, why now? Would the media cooperate any better?

  78. Mandos: Actually, HRC would be all but a lock to win the GE. Her secret weapon: moderate GOP women. Besides, she would have had Obama as her VP to soothe hurt Obot feelings.

    Obama/Biden: Clean and articulate change you can believe in!

  79. Riverdaughter, you rock.

    Thanks for the pep talk.
    I’m lighting my hair on fire right now!

  80. Just saw another “nail” in the Obama campaign’s coffin:


    He admits that when he said “they” were lying, “they” were telling the truth and he was lying. He just doesn’t get it.

  81. Mandos: Please factor into our thinking that our state of mind also includes the DNC and the nefarious route they have chosen to take for the sole purpose of getting this ineffective candidate “crowned”. To simply stand by and shrug off this criminal assault on our rights would be to akin to an anointment of what they have done and will do again if allowed to go unchallenged.

    Our rights, our voices, our votes, have been confiscated to the detriment of what was once our party. Their methods are nothing short of criminal in that they stooped to the shameful level of branding both Clinton’s with the label of ra*cists which could not be any further from the truth. Once you start down that slippery slope there is nothing they will not do to accomplish their ends. Holding them accountable is the only way we gain back what is rightfully ours. The right to choose our own candidate by effort of the voting booth.

    The PUMA movement is based as much on this issue as it is on awarding Hillary Clinton the nomination. PUMA will not disappear after November as we strongly believe this must never happen again. We are solid in this respect.

  82. Mandos, you can do better than “you people”, can’t you?

    Hi Yolanda.


  83. Pat, I know you don’t want to….but you would make a good blogista. Fine, I will leave you alone (oh and thanks for making Ed see reason)

  84. Thanks for the light spanking, RD. I needed it.

    My low-grade doubting has been serving a psychological need. Tensions are high, emotional investment huge, and I am trying to find a path to bear ANY outcome. It will be excruciating to wait for it.

    That said, you are right. There was a brief discussion regarding believing in God here yesterday, and my own belief in God resemples collective unconcious. If miracles do happen, then (to me) they are a result of joined will. For Hill to prevail at the convention, it would take this.

    As for the Obots rioting. Bullshit. They are mostly lazy cowards.

    And I’m chiming in on the fact that Hill’s support among Indies, moderate repubs and female repubs more than makes up the the tantrums some might throw.

    There is a new party forming. I can feel it.

  85. Mandos is making me laugh.

  86. The ONLY way that this can be viewed as a betrayal of party procedure is if people continue to be unaware that :


    Sheesh. Betrayal of party procedure, my &^#(*$! .

  87. You think that Obama as VP would soothe rather than insult them any more that Clinton as VP soothes some of you? It would be all “Black man as second fiddle, servant to white election thief” stuff going around.

    I don’t think moderate GOP women would save you from months of *that*.

    And I’m really a little surprised that you think that Obama people wouldn’t have the same reactions you are having now. Remember, the problem is that their very criteria for a good nominee is different from yours. If Clinton had taken the primary without ambiguity, it wouldn’t have mattered what their criteria are.

  88. Mandos:

    Hillary tried blogospheric outreach, but the cheetos weren’t listening.

    She went to YearlyCheeto (ask RD, she was there too) and she supported MoveOn, for all the good it did her.

  89. Obots won’t riot when Hillary gets the nom. They’ll text message one another.

  90. Arabella, Mandos must be a good will ambassador.

  91. if what you say is true mandos, then you are admitting that all obama supporters are the worst kind of hypocrites. haven’t they been hounding us for months about party loyalty and McCain being the worst possible outcome? We have always held that priciples and integrity above all, including party loyalty. they have not. How will they get around their previous cries of Roe v Wade, dying iraqi children, and party unity????

  92. Let me clarify what I just posted: Each time BO is quoted (like in that op-ed) as saying that’s not what he meant to say, he offends yet another group of voters. Each group he offends then becomes potential anti-voters in November. It is only August … how many more groups could he possibly turn against him in the next 2-1/2 months? The numbers are legion. And the DNC still can’t see the forest for the trees, and will continue to force him down the voters’ throats until he has gone down in flames. Why can’t they see that the horrible mistake they made in “packaging and promoting” BO is going to end in disaster? All of this, just because they wanted the Democratic party to be the first with an AA candidate. What a waste of time and money, and what a waste of the best candidate they had at their fingertips – Hillary.

  93. UpstateNY – Mandos is the first Obama Comedy Ambassador I’ve ever seen.

    Keep bringing teh funny, mandos.


  94. I second that about Pat-blog away!

    Gary, Obama does not care about his country or party.

    That’s the problem. He would never step down. He would have to be forced. The idea of Michelle’s eyes bulging in rage over such a thing sure does feel good to visualize, though!

  95. Pat Johnson: Far be it from me to tell you to stop! That’s not what I’m saying. At this point, the (D) party has so messed things up, I see a high probability of a McCain win either way. Under those conditions, principle is all you got left! And the more political “churn”, the better. American politics is way too static.

    I’d just not have high expectations of Hillary Clinton winning the general election any more than Obama at this point. From that point of view, why would the DNC change its mind?

  96. gary:

    First, the idea of BO “getting on board” is pretty far-fetched. The complaint against BO (which I assume you accept) is that he’s a narcissistic, unprincipled, scheming bastard. So, you can’t seriously think that he’d go along with a plan to put HRC in the top slot.

    Second, the complaint against the Obots is that they are irrationally devoted to a cause for purely emotional reasons that have nothing to do with rational reflection on the available evidence and options. Such people are, one presumes, highly unlikely to just “get over it” and accept the downfall of the Precious.

    Third, HRC would be in no position to run a GE campaign in the aftermath of a convention that got her the nomination. Having already endorsed Obama, she must work behind the scenes to take him out. That can’t be good for a politician who already has very high negatives in national polling. Her national political operation has been on ice since June and can’t possibly be resurrected in time to make a serious run for the WH.

    I’ll say it again: the convention you imagine would be highly entertaining as television, and it would keep political scientists busy for years. But the notion that HRC can be the next president is simply a fantasy.

  97. BTW RD–I have sent many people to your old post on learned helplessness. Brilliant, inspiring and true.

  98. Mandos:

    So what is your solution?

    Or are you just trolling?

  99. gary: “How will they get around their previous cries of Roe v Wade, dying iraqi children, and party unity????”

    do as I say, not as I do?

  100. HRC will run a great Presidential campaign. We’ll all have a good time.


  101. florida, I didn’t say he WOULD do it, I said he should, and it would be necessary for party unity (hmm, where have i heard that before??). He IS a narcissist, so he will have to be bribed or flattered into thinking its the best thing for HIM, because party loyalty means nothing to him (ask downticket dems). And as mentioned earlier, Hillary will actually reach out to his supporters rather than brushing them off her shoulder and calling them baby-killers and racists.

  102. myiq2xu: Just attending YearlyKos is not enough. Obama and many of his surrogates spent time from an early stage cultivating the *wince* Kossacks. I didn’t see a real effort to engage aside from attending a few events from Hillary Clinton, and the internet strategy should have been way more mature from eariler on. As it was for Obama and his surrogates and supporters.

    Obama, campaign-structure-wise at least, is Dean Done Right. Democrats rarely learn from past failure—that one instance, someone did.

    garychapelhill: There’s lots of hypocrisy to go around, but I had been seeing from the beginning a lot of “rank and file” *wince* Kossacks saying that despite Kos’ own admonitions, they would never vote for Hillary. That sentiment would definitely increase if Hillary took what they thought was “theirs”.

  103. My PRO-UNITY husband asked me “WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN”? He listened to me for the 1st time on this issue.
    This is’nt time to be “PC” this is “OUR COUNTRY” they are “THROWING AWAY”!
    **TO SD’S (this is what I said to Move-on):
    **This is your 2008 Iraq war VOTE!!
    Having www. POCPUMA.com & other groups out there helps to MAKES IT “OK “FOR EVERYONE TO NOT SUPPORT OBAMA!!
    Donate today for Bill’s B-DAY GIFT!!
    Reduce Hillary’s Debt!!

  104. Mandos has donned a clown costume to become the first Obaba Comedy Troll.

    I think his seltzer bottle was very funny.


  105. myiq2xu: I don’t think there is a solution. Why do you think there should be a solution? I think it’s too late for one, and that the chips will fall where they will.

    On the other hand, there are lessons to be learned. I think it’s worth asking why some people think the lesson is A, while others think it’s B. Don’t you? If that makes me a troll, so be it.

  106. Mandos: Yes, I do believe HRC would be a lock. Remember, she suffered an all-out media onslaught for months that blasted her as a racist who was hellbent on actually murdering Obama and she still kicked ass in the polls well until June. She’s already weathered the nasty narrative at the height of its powers.

  107. Get me out of moderation!

    Mandos has donned a clown costume to become the first Obama Comedy troll.

    Watch our for the the seltzer siphon bottle and the bannana cream pies!


  108. You must be insane, or just here to irritate people.

    We don’t care about the Obots feelings. This isn’t about having a big huggy convention. We are here to put the right person into power. Do you get that?

  109. Mandos:


  110. I think they are voting you out of the island.

  111. Get me out of moderation, please.

  112. mandos, the hypocrisy is that the Obamabots do not give a shit about all of those issues like the war, the economy, Roe v Wade. They only thing they care about is getting their way and destroying the Clintons, and not necessarily in that order. If they did care about the issues they would be pushing Hillary as VP, it would be the strongest ticket imaginable and pretty unbeatable. They are hypocrites and bullies who prey on fear and mistrust to get what they want, plain and simple. None of those bloggers from Kos to Marshall have any scruples whatsoever,. they also represent a small fraction of the electorate, despite their immense egoes.

  113. What have you done now, Arabella? 😉

  114. “You must be insane, or just here to irritate people.”

    I vote the second. We don’t want to try on the Obots clothing. We’re not cross-dressers here–except myiq.

  115. Mandos is the reason why I think Obama should just get the nomination and get his ass whooped by McCain and the GOP. They will never stop whining until their Messiah is completely exposed as a fraud. Even then, they will still blame Hillary for his loss.

    Hillary needs to come back in 2012. I am willing to let Obama steal the nomination this time only because I am 99% certain that he will lose in November. After that, I want to concentrate our efforts into getting rid of Dean, Pelosi, and Brazille. The entire Party and netroots needs to be restructured to help real Democrats win elections. Until then, the CDS and lame excuses will continue and I’m sick of it.

  116. Obama and the DNC have wandered down a treacherous path with the sole purpose of overhauling and redesigning the Democratic Party. They instigated this agenda with the belief that all would be onboard because of the miserable 8 years we have suffered under Bush/Cheney. They chose a candidate of color and this belief was based on white guilt taking hold and a visceral response to any GOP candidate who was presented.

    What they did not foresee was the opposition from those of us who like to think we do our homework. We study the issues, we listen to the debates, we read, we are junkies. We know how to parse and we recognize dissembling when we hear it. We also love our country and have no desire to play along with empty rhetoric and catchy slogans. We like substance, ideas, solutions. We credit ourselves with the ability to spot a phony a mile away. And we also prefer candor and integrity over hoopla and glitz.

    I have no love for John McCain. But in my heart, and as much as I disagree with most of his policies, I would much prefer to see him in the WH than someone who has not to define himself in the role of a leader. Inexperience invites risk. I want my party back and the only way to achieve this is through a total dismantling of what passes for the Dem Party and the Obama candidacy as it now stands.

    Hillary Clinton at the top of this ticket will reverse the road to oblivion. It is our intention to keep this hope alive.

  117. myiq2xu: *shrug*

    BTW, Karolina: Unfortunately, politics in the American media environment especially is about feelings. Consequently, “We don’t care about the Obots feelings” is tantamount to saying that you aren’t particularly interested in the kind of backlash you might have to endure.

  118. Oh Snap!

    FYI – I blog as nature intended, in my birthday suit.

    Cross-dressing is just a social thing.

  119. Upstate – I used a strange comination of terms that contained a typo.

  120. Mandos is the reason why I think Obama should just get the nomination and get his ass whooped by McCain and the GOP. They will never stop whining until their Messiah is completely exposed as a fraud. Even then, they will still blame Hillary for his loss.

    I don’t know why you think *I* am the reason for why you want this. I already believe that it’s going to be a roughly 80% chance for a McCain presidency. Consequently, you wouldn’t be proving anything to *me*.

    Simply because I am not “on board” with everything you say here does not make me an “Obot.”

  121. We ARE the backlash

  122. myiq, really now??

  123. Mandos is a dog in a manger.

  124. GCH is correct and furthermore, the less militant Obamots, the liberal rich, don’t care about issues either—they are thinking of how good we are going to look to the rest of the world if we elect a black president. They to are living in their own fantasy of image, instead of the reality of what the truth is here.

  125. Arabella?

    Sorry, I come from another quadrant and do not speak Standard English all that well yet.

  126. Mandos, it’s not that we’re too stupid to visualize an Obot backlash. We just don’t see it as you do. I truly believe if that contingent were not inherently lazy, then they would never have supported BO in the first place. As stated more elegantly above, they seem to be incapable of doing homework or basic research on issues. Rioting? They could be bothered. Bitching? yes. But they’re doing that now.

  127. I meant to say they could NOT be bothered…..

  128. “Backlash” is what we have been enduring right along. From the MSM, the pundits, the Obama supporters who continually offer threats and insults for those of us not buying into the crap masquerading as party unity.

    What backlash are you referring too? Stripping delegates, intimidation, bodily harm? We are used to it. This is not the way to win elections. People have put themselves in the line of fire in order to ensure their rights. Nelson Mandela is one that readily comes to mind. Or the civil rights protesters who lost their lives in cause they strongly believed in. Perhaps if we had more of this “backlash” against the Bush Administration rather than the silence that surrounded their unlawful acts it would have gone a long way in overcoming what we live with today.

    Backlash, Mandos? Been there, done that.

  129. Mandos—the feelings of the fooled, bullying, rich and even AA will be changed.

  130. Arabella, never mind, my universal translator (google) gave me the meaning of that expression.

  131. Mandos, please understand that – once again – it is not just what Sen. Clinton had to endure in this campaign that we are are opposed to and standing up against. The DNC has done/supported/inspired things along the way in this election year that have caused life-long Democrats to revolt. It has made decisions willy-nilly that have shown its members that our votes don’t count for anything (or maybe 1/2) and that we should just sit down, shut up and let them run the show. We have watched Howard Dean and Donna Brazile make a shambles of our party, with help along the way from many others (hi, Nancy Pelosi – that one was for you!). Do you think we should just sit back and watch their show at the convention and not try to take back our party? I’m sorry, we can’t do that. Too much has happened and too many of us have been wronged. The party that we were for is now against us, and that is simply unwarranted. We must fight back and let them know who the real Democratic party is – it is us, the voters; not them.

  132. “Perhaps if we had more of this “backlash” against the Bush Administration rather than the silence that surrounded their unlawful acts it would have gone a long way in overcoming what we live with today.”

    Hear, hear!

  133. Can anyone link me to this alleged story about Gore not attending the convention?

  134. Karolina, I’m with you. I think Pelosi should be run out of congress on a rail for not impeaching bush. She is the most ineffective speaker of the house in a century. Why is she a leader of OUR party???

  135. Mandos, why are you and the Obamabots so interested in us who truly believe in the right to dissent? What annoys you so much that we cannot swallow the “party for the sake of the party” meme? Why what we think, say, believe is of so much interest to your side? Is it because we do manage to continue to exercise our right to debate and the power of speech? I am always puzzled at the outright hubris your side exhibits towards those of us who prefer to reside in the country of holdouts. You must surely recognize that we are not that easily swayed.


    Riverdaughter, I understand you are organizing folks at home next week to be available if help is needed in Denver. I’d like to help out. puma.elaine@gmail.com

  137. Mandos, please go back to DailyKos, TalkLeft, TM, HuffPuff, or the millions of other CDS PUMA-hating blogs where you belong. Thanks.

  138. RiverDaughther, you are PRICELESS. LOVED the video!!!! “And I don’t even know his last name” (wink, wink).

  139. The Dog in the Manger is a fable attributed to Aesop, concerning a dog who one afternoon lay down to sleep in the manger. On being awoken, he ferociously kept the cattle in the farm from eating the hay on which he chose to sleep, even though he was unable to eat it himself, leading an ox to mutter the moral of the fable:

    People often begrudge others what they cannot enjoy themselves.

    Source: wikipedia

  140. joaniebone: Mandos, it’s not that we’re too stupid to visualize an Obot backlash. We just don’t see it as you do. I truly believe if that contingent were not inherently lazy, then they would never have supported BO in the first place. As stated more elegantly above, they seem to be incapable of doing homework or basic research on issues. Rioting? They could be bothered. Bitching? yes. But they’re doing that now.

    Fair enough. I wouldn’t be as sanguine about their laziness on this front as you. There are enough bad but successful political movements in the world to suggest that there are lots of people who are ignorant yet very active politically, I’d suggest that there are more than enough of these in the Obama camp.

    But, I mean, at this point it’s just a matter of opinion. You could be right.

    Pat Johnson: Fair enough again. By backlash, I meant doing whatever it took to make sure that they held control of the party, up to and including a sabotaging a Clinton general election campaign. I mean, more of the same, sure. But some people seem to think that they wouldn’t go to that effort, or wouldn’t be successful.

  141. Electoral College update:

    McCain 274 Obama 259 8/19/2008



  142. Mandos, please go back to DailyKos, TalkLeft, TM, HuffPuff, or the millions of other CDS PUMA-hating blogs where you belong. Thanks.

    Why do you think I hate you or suffer from CDS? To me, Hillary Clinton is a fairly mainstream American politician, and that’s all she is. If that’s CDS…

  143. Thanks Arabella.

  144. As long as Nasty Nancy is in charge of the checkbook she will continue to hold power. She sets the agenda, she sanctions committee members, the whole enchillada rolls out of her office. She may be ineffective overall in setting policy but she holds the most powerful position of all aside from POTUS. This woman is all about power. It sustains her. She set this agenda, she must go down with it.

  145. brtl….yikes.

  146. Mandos is now a Dog in the Manger Troll.

    First of many. Brush up on your Aesops Fables.

    BYT – Check out 60 Across in todays NY Times Crossword.

    We are everywhere

  147. joaniebone, on August 19th, 2008 at 10:22 am Said:
    “Rioting? They could be bothered. Bitching? yes. But they’re doing that now.”

    Dear joaniebone…..sorry to be so pedantic, but that’s ‘COULDN’T be bothered’……….
    if they could be bothered, that would mean that they were going to be bothered! I have only found this statement in the US.

    This is one inversion that drives me absolutely nuts; but it is nowhere near as bad as the Bostonian, ‘So don’t I !’

  148. yes-is that Gore story a myth?

  149. Davidson, on August 19th, 2008 at 9:16 am Said:
    There’s no harm in trying, true, but we’re not up against rational people. We’re up against crazy and nothing beats crazy.

    Indeed. Sense will not be coming from the Obama camp. A falling star does not think in terms of legacy. He’ll happily take down the party and all in it if he has too….as we can see right now . And that’s another way he’s got an advantage over Hill. She cares about others and he does not . In fact it oftem seems Obama was created in order to wreck the party , that that is the why of Barry . No one would wanted to lead an alive Dem party would tell all these big Dems to stay home from the convention. To denine the likes of Charlie Rangelle and Wes Clark a place is nuts if you plan to lead….but makes great sense if your intentions are other wise . So to pull up the streaking to the ground good ship Dem, it will have to be SD’s , down tickets dems and delegates. However looking at, at least the SD’s, profile in jello performance over the last 8 years, it doesn’t look good. But one must proceed anyway. I believe Hillary knew the fix was in long ago….but she didn’t quit. She redoubled, then tripled her efforts and look were she is? Is it where we want Hillary to be?…. of course not . But we are discussing the possibility of her getting this thing. Anyone else would have been political road kill months, months ago. At the very least trying to make them behave in a Democratic ( lol!) manner will force their cheating into the day light, where it needs to be and has paid dividends already . It wasn’t long ago when the thought of her even getting a vote seemed impossible . Keep on keeping on PUMA!

  150. ram-that was a typo. My correction was beneath.

  151. They won’t riot. They’ll text message and blog and make really cool videos.

  152. GHC—I personally believe that it is because she is a corporate-connected, ideologically-f*scist, Bush-loving plant with a Botox-cemented, Donna Reed smile.

    And those aren’t even my REALLY CRITICAL feelings.

  153. mandos is an equal opportunity troll.

    She/he just stirs up trouble everywhere in order to get attention.

    Don’t oblige

  154. I get the sense B.O. ‘s less anemic to Hillary asVP now, but it’s probably too late.
    only way for him not to be the nominee is for some piece of news to come out…don’t have a clue what it could be….Otherwise it would be unacceptable to dump him.

  155. Arabella: OK, OK, I’ll bite. What am I “begrudging” what I “cannot enjoy” myself that makes me a Dog In The Manger Troll? Since you seem so eager to make this about me.

  156. I love the idea that the vote in Denver is equivalent to the Iraq war vote . . . it will live for a LONG time. Outrageous as it seems to many, our best chance at victory in November is Hillary, with BO as VP if that will bring the Obots onboard.

    I have written to my state’s superdelegates yesterday asking them to think pragmatically about what will get the Dems back into the White House. Today I’m going to tackle the pledged delegates asking for their pragmatic angels to come forth and select Hillary as our nominee.

    WE HAVE TO ACT NOW! Contact the delegates in your state and encourage them. We can banter back and forth on this blog about what’s possible, but in the end it will be what we DO this week that can have a GREAT IMPACT.

    This PUMA wants Hillary on top of the ticket and I’m going to raise this consciousness with my states delegates. JOIN ME!!!

  157. I meant “GCH”, Gary. Got too excited describing the Nancy.

  158. I’m sorry, but I still maintain that her nomination would wreck the party. But only because this primary was/is so hard fought. What will happen is that there will undoubtedly be a lot of smear tactics used by the Republicans to stoke the hatred of Obama fans. And since the majority of those people are overwhelmingly emotional in how they vote and act, they will respond to such attacks. They already hate Clinton (and I mean HATE her) so it would be easy for them to ruin the 2008 GE.

    While I don’t like/trust Obama, I don’t hate the guy. I believe there are more people who hate Hillary than hate Obama. And while I would have loved to see her against McCain, I do not think it wise to risk her chance at the White House. If she were to get the nomination, run and lose- that would ruin any future chances at the White House. Honestly, I would prefer that to happen to Obama. (But like I said, if anyone has been paying attention now and especially during the primary, the man and his campaign are a sneaky bunch and it would be foolish to count them out.)
    Shoot I think even if she got the nod, she wouldn’t accept. It’s a calculated business.

    That’s just one viewpoint. It doesn’t mean anyone else has to stop fighting. If you want Hillary as the nominee, I don’t blame you. I felt the same way, when I was a Democrat. Hell, I still feel she should be the nominee. She’s just plain BETTER than him. But, it’s all about strategy in DC. In fact I’m amazed at all that has been done. I mean this is an organized and concentrated effort. The organization has managed to send a message to the Democratic Party and forced them to pay attention. If anything I think this effort will be better in the long run. For the Republicans, it took them 6 years to realize they were alienating their moderate base. At least the Democratic Party got that message in less than 3 months. So hopefully they will not make the same mistake again.

  159. Gordon–where in kansas are you?

  160. They will yell and scream and stomp their Birgenstock and flip flop clad feet, they will cry foul and rant and rave, they will call us names and tell us they hate us.

    As a Mom of 4 I knew how to tune that nonsense out big time! In fact, I would consider myself an expert in a show of indifference when it came to tuning out the wheedling, whining, head banging, temper tantrums that would follow over a simple declarative “No”.

  161. I have not given up on Hillary being the nominee or I would not continue to contact super delegates to support her in Denver. I am hoping all the bad press nobama’s getting will convince the sd’s to vote Hillary.

  162. did anyone see the program on Fox last night? I want to know what he was doing while he was at Columbia. that’s just a gaping hole in his life (They can’t even remember where he lived???) If something comes out about him, my guess it will be from that time period.

  163. joaniebone: Still looking for a New Year’s date?

  164. Mandos, I don’t really give a f*ck who you are. All I know is that you have chosen to come to this blog and argue with us. Guess what, people like you only make us more angry and more determined not to vote for Obama. So if you want to help Obama lose, continue to stay here.

  165. gary: I saw the last segment. One of the reasons for the time at Columbia may be that – and I read this somewhere – he was living with a white female undergrad during some of the time. This may be what they are trying to conceal to some extent. But the best part was where they tried to contact some of the 400 grads that year and none could remember him. What was that all about? Surely someone must remember him from class unless of course he was never there.

  166. RD: I have every expectation that the persons responsible will not let momentary discomfort overwhelm their obligation to do the right thing.

    I am a Doubter. Can’t help it after what I’ve witnessed this primary season. I have to agree with Upstate: a “movement” that MUST include the support of a majority of Superdelegates. The unfortunate reality, I believe, is that the majority of Superdelegates are gutless, manipulated and beholden cowards.”

    Of course we have to fight back and ask and protest and all of the things we are doing, if not for now, then on principle and for the future. Having said that, I have seen a couple of reports of delegates with courage (Sascha & Debra), but Obama has replaced delegates, and the others are (see Upstate above). It would be a miracle. I always end with this caveat: I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong.

  167. I don’t worry about Barry’s actual followers rioting…and he’s never been so foolish as to depend on them for anything . I worry about the usual way Barry rolls….paid operatives.

  168. mandos – victory

  169. *shrug* Appears I’m moderated now. Dunno if that’s spamfilter but whatever.

  170. Well, I do not know about you, but that is not the best way to treat a voter (or is it?)….

  171. Hillary has $88 million put away for the GE, and she could take public financing.

    If the Obots stay home, who cares? It would be no different than every other election when young people say they are going to vote and don;t show up at the polls.

    I made hundreds of calls to Ohio, Texas, Penn, Indiana, NC, and Oregon for Hillary. I cannot tell you how many REpublicans told me that if she just made it through the primary they would vote for her.

    Axelrod is the one that put the thought of Obots rioting in the streets into people’s heads(racist much?). It will never happen, because they are generally 20 something little boys, and if AAs decide to riot because Farrakhan tells them to, the police won’t let them get past Pico. I was in LA for the riots, and they only got to trash their own neighborhoods.

    Bring it on. I don;t care who you think is more electable. Obama is a disaster, and I will oppose his candidacy whether or not Clinton is the VP. So the onlyw way the DNC could ever get me to vote Dem is if they nominate Clinton.

  172. pat: and what was the deal with the story about him waking up in an alleyway in with chickens and trash after arriving in NY. I mean he wasn’t the drugstore cowboy, he was an ivy league student on a full ride.

  173. Sorry, I haven;t been online lately.

    Thanks to everyone who donated to our gas fund. I am going to put up a post tonight talking about the trip.

  174. There’s no harm in trying, true, but we’re not up against rational people. We’re up against crazy and nothing beats crazy.


    They haven’t seen crazy yet.

  175. Gordon in Kansas: good post.

    This is the time to really work to get Hillary nominated. One more week.

    It’s interesting that in the olympics, the winners (and the people who participate) are the ones who never gave up.
    They wait until the last quarter and then give everything they have to win no matter how much it hurts.

    That is the mentality of winners and we are in the last quarter.

  176. myiq, seriously! They have driven me crazy. I bought an RV for God’s sake, and I am driving it to Denver to protest this crap.


  177. UpstateNY, on August 19th, 2008 at 10:56 am

    That was freaking brilliant!

  178. “They haven’t seen crazy yet.”


  179. cbn, don’t forget the superbow! talk about pulling it out in the last quarter.

  180. gary: Not sure if that part of the narrative was imposed to show how “plucky” our boy is! It seems more likely he passed out from an overdose of drugs or booze and found himself in an alley. Ridiculous to think otherwise. He said he could only remember one address that he lived at, the rest are blanks. Come on! Somebody is letting you crash on their couch and you cannot even recall a name? Not buying it. I still think it is the white female aspect that is creating “amnesia”. As if anyone gives a rat’s ass other than Michelle. But something is being covered up here big time.

  181. Pat, did you see all of those Pakistani friends of his, and what college student just decides to go to Pakistan? With his Islamic upbringin in Indonesia, and now all of this Pakistan crap, he is looking more and more Manchurian everyday.

    I have heard that along with the whitey tape. The repubs have a tape of him doing the muslim prayers on the floor.

  182. Don’t give up. You never know when something will come in from left field and change everthing.

  183. IF the superdelegates were to vote with their hearts Hillary will become the nominee. Of course this takes into account the belief that placing Hillary’s name into nomination is a pure act on the part of the DNC and the Obama campaign. Given their history I have every reason to doubt them. But I, like you and a gazillion other PUMAs, am crossing my fingers, eyes, arms and legs and hoping these folks come to their senses.

  184. Gary and Mawm:

    One request – during that long drive on the Interstates, you’ll probably see carloads of Obots.

    Moon the bastards!

  185. Did he wake up next to a halal butcher?

  186. I was surprised at the amateurish comments by his campaign: “there was actually just one actual address”….um ok, but the kicker was this statement from a spokesperson “Barack doesn’t really remember that many people from his life”…..and that should make me feel comfortable why? To me it means he’s so self absorbed he can’t be bothered with little things like other people.

  187. Thanks Anntoo,

    I was afraid that with the whole submission of wills and the male/female thingy some would find it “edgy”.

    It would be interested to make a voice over and change “stay” for “vote for me” and “ship” for “DNC/Party” along with other little changes…. but sometimes metaphor works best.

  188. arabella, they make it sound like he was down and out, not drugged out, but that’s bullshit. he is on full scholarship to columbia, but he has to sleep in some back alley? NFW!!!

  189. He traveled to Pakistan over 20 years ago. Now if you buy into that narrative, where did his passage money and expenses come from if the was living hand to mouth in the streets of NY? Did the student friends fund his trip? If not, how was this poor boy able to afford the funds? Just too many holes here to try to plug up. No one can remember you at Columbia out of 400 students yet you are living vicariously with no money in NYC but you are able to book a plane to Pakistan. Somebody please explain how this is done? We know he is “magical” but the tripe is beginning to smell.

  190. Obama’s bad memory will get him in trouble. I wish a reporter would ask Meee chelle about how good Obama is at remembering birthdays and anniveraries.


  191. Those original 13 colonies didn’t win against the British by saying “We’ll just have to wait another 4 years until the time is right”. Those settlers “damned the torpedos” of Redcoats and went full speed ahead against the greatest military might in the world and one of the best mercenary forces that money could buy.

    Compared with that, there is no reason that voters can’t legally overwhelm the Obama machine and turn this Denver Convention around so the rightful winner of the primaries is given the nomination. After all, if the Democratic party VIPs had backed Vice President Gore in 2000 instead of telling him to give up; we could have been spared a decade of Mr. Bush’s faux pas.

  192. I find it interesting that he can spend a week here, a week there in some foreign capital and then announce he has figured the whole world crisis out in record time. What an amazing feat!

    He is unable to remember names but he sure has grasped the international situation in record time. Methinks they call that “selective memory”. He should consider taking a polygraph in the future. I just can’t keep up!

  193. RD, thanks for the excellent post and the scenario you describe is possible and viable if everyone was as rational as you are. All of us here would like nothing more than to see rational judgment take a lead at the convention. That is, after all, why we have a convention; to put into nomination the most electable candidate who can put forth the democratic principles we hold so dear.

    However, these are not rational people. We are talking about people who could not see the forest for the trees, who thought that the dumbing down of America had already taken place and we would never notice all the unscrupulous things going on around us. But we weren’t so stupid, we saw it, we pounced on it and called them on it.

    They have made a mistake of monumental fucking proportions. To think they would now say, gosh, oops sorry is just not something I think they will do. I think they will push forward with this loser and do what we know will happen – LOSE. They will blame r@cism, the Bradley effect, Hillary, us, uneducated hillbillies, etc and on and on. They will blame anyone but the culprits, themselves.

    Just my take and probably my rant for the day. I will hold on to your thoughts and keep my fingers crossed for sanity to take hold at the convention, but I really believe that they will take this all the way. They are not the ones we have been waiting for, but rather the ones we have been fearful of for so long.

  194. Well said and BRAVA RD!

  195. UpstateNY, on August 19th, 2008 at 11:09 am Said:

    I was afraid that with the whole submission of wills and the male/female thingy some would find it “edgy

    funny but I didn’t see the clip in male/ female terms…but in GOP and Dem terms …it looked like a short history of the last 8 years in congress. C-span could run this on a loop and cover any Bush appointment hearing nicely . Barry is co opting GOP methods that work with DC Dems …..time the actual Dem base says ” enough ”


  196. Let’s be fair: If Gore had insisted on a recount of the entire state of Florida rather than just narrowing it down to four counties, that margin of 527 would have vanished in his favor. The fault lies in Gore not taking on the fight that was rightfully his to do. The GOP fought, Gore caved.

  197. arabella, they make it sound like he was down and out, not drugged out, but that’s bullshit. he is on full scholarship to columbia, but he has to sleep in some back alley? NFW!!!

    Well, Meee’Chelle has called her husband “Stinky.” Maybe his girlfriend made him sleep on the roof and fell asleep and rolled off the building into the alley.

    A guy who snores or farts is not a pleasant bed mate.


  198. With regard to the weightiness, or lack thereof, of Obama’s resume, the Wall Street Journal published an editorial yesterday comparing Clarence Thomas’ resume with Obama’s. They suggest Obama’s resume just doesn’t measure up to Thomas’. Fancy that. (Sorry, I don’t know how to make this a live link. My resume is a little light on computer savvy.)


  199. Before moving on to read the comments, I want to give an initial response. RD, you are really channeling a Bride from Kill Bill vibe, except in a far more civic minded, productive citizen with constructive ideas way. Most bracing!

  200. I think the implication is subtle but clear (and this is by no means an affirmation of what they were trying to imply). I think they want to push the idea that, like all college students, Obama dabbled in some alternative stuff, you know like exploring the whole muslim thing. As a black man struggling with his identity it wouldn’t have been out of the ordinary. Personally I don’t think there is anything wrong with that, but if they are covering it up and it comes out he’s through.

  201. Heh, look at that. It became a live link! I’m dumb, but thrilled.

  202. What’s especially bizarre about B.O. scarcely being remembered by anyone is that when someone rises to meteoric heights, generally, every Tom, Dick and Harry—even those who may have only been in his class or in the same room one day—wants to come forward in order to claim some limelight. “yes, I knew him…please come put me in the spotlight”.

  203. As a black man struggling with his identity it wouldn’t have been out of the ordinary. </blockquote

    This comment conjures an image of Eddie Murphy dressed as a student from Camaroon fighting with chickens in an alley behind a butchery.


  204. Pat Johnson, on August 19th, 2008 at 11:18 am Said:

    agreed…. funny how Donna and Richard Daily were right there letting Gore to cave too . Warren Christson , the guy who was supposedly leading the charge for Gore , said “oh you’ll win it next time . Now was it a matter of them seeing Jim Baker and peeing in thier pants ? or were they on the take…or mind nimbingly stupid….could be all three .

  205. The entire narrative built around this guy is suspect. Some of us here have probably “dabbled” as well. To insert his usage into the scenario blunts the opposition but also underscores his image amongst the 20 something set. There appears to be little in the way of “genuine” about him. Attempting to dramatize his roots and uplift his background into a Horatio Alger story is ridiculous. He is ordinary to say the least. The holes that lie within the fabric of his transcendence are beginning to enlarge. It is what happens when you rely on invention to characterize yourself. Never works.

  206. Sorry, forgot to close the tag. I’m logging off for a while.

    See you later.

  207. There’s something B.O. said at the faith forum or whatever it’s called that I haven’t heard anyone comment upon: He said (in answer to the query about moral weakness) that as a teenager he used drugs and drank as a result of his “SELFISHNESS”.

    I’d like to know: where does selfishness come in? and has he gotten over being selfish? And if he still catches himself feeling selfish, is there a chance he’d descend into substance abuse.

    I can understand saying”I was angry, frustrated, and became reckless to the extent of doing something ultimately self-destructive like drinking and drugs. I was immature. I was irresponsible, blaming others and wallowing in self pity. I enjoyed nurturing my grievances against my mother’s race—as he says in his book”. But selfish?

  208. hatshepsut1988: Unless you have been paid off to keep your mouth shut. It just does not pass the smell test. You are correct, most come out of the woodwork to claim a part of this “historic” campaign. Yet silence ensues. Why? Could it be that Mr. Lazy spent those years laying around on his back doing nothing but toking up?

  209. He lived with an illegal Pakistani while attending columbia in NY….and this roommate was a big time druggie…coke and mirrors!!!!!

  210. Riverdaughter,

    I agree with much of what you said but I do not want the Precious to be VP and a heartbeat away from the position he should not have anyway by virtue of his being the lightweight that he is.

    If Hillary does come out of the convention as the nominee she will need to select a VP quickly and I have no objection if it were Sheila Jackson Lee or Charlie Rangel.

    But not Obama as we undercut our own argument that he is not qualified to be president.

    I live and work in the Chicago area. Yesterday Emil Jones, who paved the way for Obama to become a US senator, announced his retirement from the Illinois State Senate and he wants his son to succeed him. Is he hoping for Obama’s US senate seat?

    Let’s not reward these guys for bad behavior.

  211. He also writes living thru slummy conditions with no heat during cold winter months in NY!!!

    Hmmm..how quickly he forgot those Chicagoans in his district!!!!

  212. Obama’s Invesco Tickets Picture Upside Down US Flags
    viewers question credential design
    ( can Obama say I hate America anymore than this and win the election?)
    designed seen here: http://countusout.wordpress.com/

  213. I thought I was “up” on the guy, but stuff keeps coming out. Waking up in an alley way? Sorry but the dude was either drunk or stoned, no other excuse for that type thing happening. I just heard about the white undergrad he lived with, Michelle probably hates that. Now I am hearing that there was some horrible incident with his typical white granny that left some serious hurt feelings. Most politicians are an open book, but he is off limits and MSM has given him this right.

  214. RD, this is a great post. No more dancing to the masochism tango! (Am I the only one with that song racing thru my head now?)

    Keep the pressure on. Raise it a notch! Write your superdelegates. Call Hillary’s pledged delegates. Support the Denver Group, pumapac, etc. Keep talking to friends and neighbors.

    Our pressure has helped her get the roll call vote, even if they’re calling it symbolic. First step: call it symbolic! Next step: make it count. Our pressure brought little Ed Rendell around (thanks to Carol and Pat for their help with that lol).

    It was said above –sorry don’t recall who– that many lifelong Dems are doing the Dem thing, and feel they don’t have a choice but to vote Obama. I think as they see what PUMA s are doing they realize they DO have a choice. So keep it up!

    Hillary knows how to do this. She’s already been reaching out to O’s supporters by campaigning for him. She’ll take not just Republican women but independent women and men. I have no concerns about what follows the convention: we will all redouble our efforst for her and get her elected.

    This is the home stretch folks: it’s the 4th quarter, 2 minutes left, and we need to get the ball downfield so we’re in field goal range. Who knows: with enough pressure, we’ll score the touchdown.

  215. The problem I have with Gore now is:

    – he did not run in 2004.

    – his utter silence on FL/MI voting issues durinng the 2008 dem primary…

  216. hat, I also am disturbed by his answer about why he is pro-choice, “because women don’t make that decision casually”. I don’t understand that at all. Shouldn’t he say because it is a woman’s body and her right to determine her reproductive choices? As a reason for supporting the right of a woman to choose, his is very weak, and easily shot down. I could say that I support killing people as long as the murderer doesn’t make that decision casually. His stance on abortion is extrmemely fishy to me.

  217. If this was meant as an answer to my comment, “The fault lies in Gore not taking on the fight that was rightfully his to do. The GOP fought, Gore caved.” my intention was NOT to give Gore a pass but to point out that the Democratic party was also passive in that fight and Gore was advised to quit because it might cause a “constitutional crisis”; which is why I feel it is so important that you PUMA members have taken an active role to save your party. (I have always been Independent, as I stated when I first commented here.) I admire what you have done. It is an extraordinary thing to build such a powerful movement so quickly. If the PUMA movement had a candidate, I’d use my one vote for you. I’ve been disappointed in Gore twice now, once in 2000 and when he announced his support for Obama – he doesn’t get a third strike.

  218. This guy was never properly vetted. Under any other circumstances his resume would raise some very serious questions. And if he was so hard up during those years did he ever consider maybe just getting a part time job to help with his cigarette money?

    The DNC is acting on the Oz theory: just ignore that man behind the curtain. Move along, nothing to see here.

    Too unsettling. And that Pakistani relationship is troubling for me. These guys are now among his biggest bundlers. Are they even citizens?

  219. PatJ,

    O is p*ssywhipped, by Michelle. Fox News reported yesterday that O was set to name Bidden as his VP pick, but Michelle stepped in and told him he needed to pick someone he was more comfortable with. Apparently, O really wants Kaine. I think he will likely end up going with Kaine because, as he stated in Warren’s forum, Michelle and his grandmother are the two people he would be most likely to go to for advice on tough decisions. So despite the fact that Michelle hasn’t shown much of a “gut” for political nuance, I think he’ll follow his wife’s lead and end up chosing Kaine.

  220. Carolyn Mann: And just the thought of Michelle getting her hands on any future agenda or policy decision is bone chilling. That is one angry woman! In fact, I believe she wears the pants in this family and he dances to whatever tune she whistles. Back that up with some other associates who bear watching, i.e., Farrakhan, Ayres, and the mix becomes pretty volatile. Do not trust this group for a minute.

  221. I actually worry about Barry as VP as well. The Press would suddenly discover his short comings and make Hill totally responsible for them. He would redefine the term ” running sore” . If there must be shared ticket , Hillary being his VP would be better, even though it would gag me…… as she could stay on the side lines and watch him implode . But those who back Barry didn’t go though all this to place Hill any where near the oval office. I feel they want Barry, but will settle for McCain before putting Hill on the ticket .

    Beside Barry could not take it. In order to heal his own rejection from his father, Barry is all about becoming his white woman rejecting father …. He wants to separate himself from the white mother his father rejected ,so he won’t ask a reasonable facsimile to be on the ticket now . Then there is the Michelle factor… no way she would okay with Hill as VP. So I don’t see Hill on the ticket, with Barry . I see Barry contining has he has been ….. picking some nobody
    who would not out shine him.

  222. In other news, Bigfoot still not real:


  223. GCH: To me it is just another indication of how out of touch with people he really is. He cannot seem to connect with regular people. I can uderstand some of his displacement. As a grandmother of bi-r@cial children, if they are not given the opportunity to mesh with both cultures, then there is a disenfranchised feeling. I was also raised by grandparents and you are doted upon, made to be more special than their own children. Most grandparents tend to give more to their grandchildren. If you take into consideration that he is considered by mainstream to be bl@ck, but was raised white, then he may have some serious psychological issues.

  224. or maybe they were just running bigfoot up the flagpole as a possible VP for Obama….

  225. SD’s don’t give a rat’s A** about B0 or Michelle. They want to win the POTUS to attain more power & jobs, and more importantly, they want to retain power in their own states. The DNC & party elders thought it would be easy, with great polls for Dems, the promise of lush Obama money for everyone, and a fawning press. That has already changed. The RCP electoral map scares them a hell of a lot more than some Obot on a keyboard spewing hate to 20 websites. They don’t care about us either, they just want to win.

    Some of us remember numerous dealings at conventions, some of which the public or media never learn details. If SD’s believe Obama will lose and also take them down, Obama’s going into a back room, and the Party comes out with someone else, and Obama comes out VP or a preggie wife with a difficult time ahead & he goes home or whatever. If it comes to a governor losing a state, or an Obama nomination, Obama will lose that governor’s vote; there are no altruists in politic.

    RD is right, it is entirely viable. This ain’t 1968, there are a lot of people upset about Bush or their lives, but there is no military draft threatening the lives of these young men, there is no “take it to the streets” movement, and if there were, the Denver police can handle it and the public reaction will no longer be shocked confusion. That boat has sailed, Donna, and you should be fired from the DNC for using the threat of public violence as a blackmail tool to shore up support for your candidate.

    Others here have said all this, and said it better, but this is my $0.02

  226. BO’s step-father was wealthy! Where is that money?

  227. I think those idjits who thought we would go for Barry would also think we will accept Gore….Perhaps Gore is their idea of a Hillary replacement.? The problem I have with Gore started when I saw him bark at and laugh at the members of the black causes who, alone, stood up in congress and tried to save his Presidency . I feel Big Dawg ( happy Birthday! ) was the last Dem candidate who was actully trying to win.

  228. Karol
    Yes, I don’t like those cave-in Dems either.
    I’m beginning to remember Organic social science theories again. Something about the survival of the social/political organism being more important than the individual.
    During the thirties that was part of Fascist philosophy-if I remember right.
    Seriously though I think Dems were shocked by the 60s walkout to the Republicans over LBJ and civil rights.
    They’re afraid of walk-outs now, and can’t quite decide
    which is the more likely- Clinton supporters or AAs.
    That’s what’s called being between a rock and a hard place…. or jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

  229. They’ve got B.O. with an upside down flag for the DNC—looks to me like they have Obie’s head poking through an American flag, as if there were a slit in it for his head, but I think it’s the upside-down aspect that is of most concern. When asked, the DNC denied there was even an intention “to depict” the flag—weird:



  231. Happy Birthday Bill Clinton!

  232. The Barack and Mom story is the real background to his inner self. They have tried to gloss over this relationship as one of sacrifice (food stamps) and respect. I think there was a lot going on back then that has not been reported. Should it? Why not since he sat down and wrote a “biography” sugar coating in idealistic terms the relationships that shaped his “destiny”.

    And somebody please correct me if I am wrong on this, but I was under the impression that he did not attend his mother’s funeral. I wish I could cite the source but I know it was somewhere on one of the blogs.

  233. Dear joaniebone….

    So sorry!

    Now I’m busy trying to equate ‘backlash’ with ‘spanking’! This is a most amazing blog….my thanks to everyone; I am being educated at a furious pace!

  234. I say Donna is attempting to incite a riot. We are all suppose to be “afraid”.

    I say, that riot gear hasn’t been used in 40 years, it’s time to haul it out.

  235. Pat: I could be wrong, and can’t remember my sources, but I think he went to mom’s funeral, but didn’t go see her when she was dying of cancer.

  236. California Democratic Assemblywoman Nicole Parra was kicked out of her Capitol building office as punishment for not voting for the Democratic state budget proposal. That’s what the Democratic Party has turned into….fall in line or you’re out of here!

    Win or lose, this battle is worth fighting. To do less than to fight the hijacking of the party would make us….well, Republicans.

    Mountain Sage

  237. from rasmussen:

    While the race for the White House remains stable, there is movement beneath the surface. The number of voters who say McCain is too old for the job has declined while the number who say Obama is too inexperienced has moved up a bit. Voters are now evenly divided as to whether Obama has enough experience for the job

  238. Let’s face it: both Repubs and Dems are quite content with the status quo. Corporate America has bought out this country and could have only done so through compliance of both sides. Follow the money. This will always lead to who is writing the agenda. I began to fully appreciate that fact when Nasty Nancy took impeachment off the table and congress refused to pull the plug on war funding. There is something there for everybody to pick over. Money talks, principles walk.

    We are just somewhat dazed to see this happening in our own party. Where we could once point that finger at the GOP it now resides in our backyard.

  239. Obama is indeed a uniter; he has begun to unify and even inspire the Republicans.

  240. or maybe they were just running bigfoot up the flagpole as a possible VP for Obama….

    This is why blog is so original in it’s creativity. Laugh out loud hilarious!

  241. I’m an empiricist (it doesn’t pay very well, so I don’t suggest it to young people just starting out in life), and i don’t see any path to Clinton’s nomination that doesn’t involve Seriously Bad Stuff that sane people don’t want. So let a thousand flowers bloom in terms of how you want to deal with Obama as nominee (personally, I’m drinking the Jonestown Iced Tea), but it’s flat-earthy to think it’s going to be Clinton instead.

  242. Wondering if anyone else happen to read the following (a reported exchange between a PUMA and Keith O) in the “comment” section @ Tennessee Guerilla Women — it’s the 1st comment under the “Shocking News!” post:


    AnnieNYC is an extremely active PUMA from NYC. She is out several times a week handing out fliers, setting up tables, talking to people, organizing events and attending meetings.

    Well, tonight, she was running late to a meeting and bumped into Keith Olberman… the following is a story of that encounter.

    XPosted From AnnieNYC

    I was going fliering tonight and walked past the NBC building, on his way walking to the building i ran into KO. I stopped him “are you keith olberman?” him in bold. there is some stuff missing, but most of it is here. He was nervous and nerdy, hands in his pockets the whole time, he really seemed like a hollow fool. i was actually very surprised, i thought he had more than this.

    are you keith olberman?
    KO: Yes.
    Ok, what is with the hillary hate.
    KO: I don’t hate her.

    gimme a break. what is your problem with her, just tell me.

    KO: i don’t hate her, i hate her policies and tactics
    her policies? Obama is to the right of her!
    KO: he’s moving to the middle because he’s trying to win!
    the middle?! he agrees with alito and scalia on the death penalty, he actually wants *more* death penalties, what kind of policy is that? Now he’s against affirmative action…
    KO: well he’s trying to win
    well not only did he vote yay on fisa, but now at&t is sponsoring the convention. that’s ok with you?
    KO: well, i was very mad about his vote on fisa.
    well at least hillary sticks to her guns and she wanted to win.
    (then we get into tactics)

    her tactics? like what.
    KO: the 3am phone call…
    well he failed that test didn’t he, russia goes to war with georgia and all he can say is he wants a shave ice. and what about the smearing of the clintons as racist? what about those tactics, donna brazile and saying fairy tale is racist, clyburn, etc.
    KO: that wasn’t him.
    don’t you think it was his job to ratchet it down? do you know how many times i’ve been called racist for not supporting him? it was his job to ratchet that down, i campaigned for her in Philadelphia and we were treated like *shit* because of the smearing of her as a racist. Wasn’t it his job to deal with his supporters?
    KO: i think he is
    oh really? what about late may axelrod faxing YOUR worst person in the world report on her RFK comments to all the media, really? hillary is the worst person in the world?!
    KO: that was only 10 minutes, and that’s axelrod, it’s not him…

    that’s the head of his campaign, he already had the win in the bag, and even now he hasn’t said what he needs to to ratchet down the hate. He could have said at any time “she’s a great lady and she’s worked throughout her life for civil rights, and he hasn’t.
    KO: (super nervous) i think he is
    Well think of the alternative

    I am

    The entire time, NO INTELLECTUAL RESPONSE WHAT-SO-EVER. NONE. NADA. ZILCH. Nothing new, just anything that some uninformed kid on the street would say. WOW. i was blown away by how lame his responses were. amazing. He even at one point mentioned that he was called a misogynist, as if he couldn’t understand why! wow.


  243. we already got “seriously bad stuff that sane people don’t want” what could be worse

  244. Pat: You are so right, corporate America has bought the country outright. You cannot get a customer service rep to treat you with dignity any more. You play by their rules or your ass is on hold forever. That is why I believe we are stuck with Bambi and McCain. I sooooooo want RD to be right and the above statement that SD’s would be shooting their own pinky toe off to nominate an unelectable person, is the only thing keeping the thought of HRC being nominated alive for me.

  245. Elections are won in the middle. I don’t care if Hillary voters sit home or Obama voters sit home, the election is still going to be won in the middle.

    Obama cannot take the middle. He’s not even trying.

    Hillary would have a rough road to travel, especially since the media would not be with her, but she can take the battleground states by winning Joe Doe in the middle.

  246. Calling all Super Delegates this is your cover:

    Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
    August 18, 2008

    How likely is it that Hillary Clinton will overshadow Barack Obama

    at the Democratic National Convention?

    Very likely

    Somewhat likely

    Not very likely

    Not at all likely


  247. Gary- You know, the kind of stuff that if I typed it, the government’s Carnivore software would track me down and Men in Black would waste my afternoon and theirs asking me questions.

  248. RD I saw a video over at NQ — he was decompensating with the religious questioner. Yesterday, I researched some of my old books to check on the narcissism and I’ll try and give you the low down in a way that is simple. He can’t win! Not with this personality structure, and it will be very sad for our country if he is savaged by the media.

    He perceives anyone who questions the “omnipotence” as the attacking mother? The fragile shell of his veneer (slick) is like that egg that was on his desk in the pictures they did. It’s an egg being held by a carved hand. That would be the “self” — what is inside that egg though–is like the hollow of deep space? Like a depression so deep–the wounds must have been very bad and are pre-verbal in order to get this kind of thing,

    He would not be able to debate McC? He would decompensate because he has to be right? So he was put on the spot, and the video NQ has shows him “decompensating” we can’t have that in a time when we are about crushed in this country financially,

    I have never seen anything as corrupt as this election. Ever.

    People are too zoned on meds (supresses the feeling function) to see him clearly! — if the intuition and feeling functions are split off? Then you aren’t firing on 4 cylinders!

    I bet I could get a PhD on this thesis alone. I could probably write a dissertation. The fragile egg floated into Chicago and encountered some very mean people. It spent 20 years at a church full of hate.

    I think it was Boston boomer? who is the PhD? She was talking about the grandiosity months ago. I saw it as a malignant narcissism. PUMA (white women) are the negative mother?

    I would say that given the era, in the sixties — given her radicalism and most likely rad crowd like Ayers she was probably hanging with he was abandoned by her — this means a psychic abandonment so great that the infant is in a rage. It’s hard to explain. Sometimes we have seen the rage/hostility? Come out.

    I’m seeing a bit of the same in MO but both do not have “empathy” — hence we noticed something wrong right away.

    I was laughing when you said “lead balloon” I haven’t heard that in ages! No, RD we want Hillary — and I’m afraid the forces behind our last prez are behind O. They could push him around the same way–I think this aggression over in Russia is going to be the deal sealer for McC. After I saw what they pulled on Hillary, I started to investigate him. He’s an okay guy RD. At least his is functioning on all four. I’ve never seen anything like this election in my life.

    I think Washington must be corrupt. Here is an article from Ireland:


  249. Bob Beckel just played the Race Card!

    It isn’t that BO is not relating to people, it is the color of his skin in the South.

    These people should be taken to the dungeons and moved quietly to an offshore island under the cover of night – or better yet, let’s have a parade and march their racist ass’ es down the street.

  250. rich, if i’m getting your hint, hint, I think its really just more fearmongering from the Obama side. I’m seriously disgusted by people who make suggestions that this country will erupt into riots and chaos if Oprecious is denied his due. I think it is racist and condescending. just my two bits.

  251. The DNC, Pelosi, Donna, and Dean have fallen in love with Big money. They have to be re-educated, that 10,000. votes. are more important the $10,000. Ed Rendell knows this and is singing a different tune now.

  252. gary – can you fix my comment – I used the r word.

  253. So, I tend to agree that the Party is already so corrupt, and has already placed their bet on a losing proposition and doubling down, and will never let Hillary win the nom if Pelosi and Obama have to personally buy every superdelegate a Ferrari and a mansion on Maui to thwart it.

    So why am I still here? I’m still giving money to pumapac, TDG, Hillary and most recently, a small bit for G&M’s Great Adventure. I’m still sending emails and letters, still addictively visiting puma blogs for the latest, still patiently explaining PUMA to friends and family (even though I live in bot-ridden Boston)….

    Because whatever the chances are, this is the right thing to do. My country is the country founded by rebels and farmers who stood up against tyranny even though they didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of beating the British Empire; the country that put forth farmboys with pitchforks and rags for shoes to fight the good fight against an enemy no one thought they could beat, the country that was universally scoffed at for even trying.

    No progressive movement which ever won real change ever, in all of history, was not laughed at, or mocked, or did not have corruption and the forces of entrenched power against it, or did not have all too many doubters and trolls jabbing at them from the sidelines.

    Dante wrote that the hottest fires of hell are reserved for those who, in the face of moral crisis, remain neutral. While I may understand those who are dispirited by the odds, or those who feel the fight isn’t worth winning, I don’t admire them. I don’t respect them. The U.S. would still be a colony, women would still not have the franchise, African-Americans would still be 3/5 of a person, children would still be working 16 hours a day in factories only to go to an early death if it were not for the people who ignored critics and mockers and bullies alike, and said ‘Enough’.

    All of those people, all of those heroes, faced a moment like we face now, where it looked like winning was impossible, and still they went on. They fought the good fight anyway.

    In a way, we have it easy, compared to them. The law, the rules of the Party, and generally understood principles of democratic fairness are all on our side. Heroes of the past fought both the law and corruption; we have only the corruption against us. We can communicate with each other (thank g*d) from our homes; our sacrifices are not of life or liberty (not yet, knock on wood). We are not facing Bull Connors but Howard Dean; not King George III’s army but Nancy Pelosi; not Stalin but Barack Obama.

    I never thought, in a million years, that we’d get Hillary in nomination. Well, I was a big fat wrong, wasn’t I? It would not have happened if it weren’t for the immense efforts of our heroes.

    Fight the good fight because it is the good fight, not because you know you’ll win.

    Whew! Sorry for the rant — now I have to run and do some day-job work! The work of a rebel is never done…

  254. It’s all up to Hillary now and us to convice her we have the votes.

  255. Maybe the MSNBC crew would riot in their studio

  256. Valhalla thanks I needed that, now excuse me, I have to go write some letters and fight the fight worth winning.

  257. I have a glimmer of hope left. Please don’t anyone come in here and attempt to seize that from me. I want what is right for this country not what is right for one man. I want a return to fairness and decency and the right of each person to have their votes and voices heard. I want to see integrity restored to the body politic. I want the average, struggling, bill paying voter to know that someone is paying attention. I want a return to the them of the common good.

    Any attempt to quell, dampen, dismiss my voice and challenge my love of country will not be tolerated. I am a citizen, a Democrat, and a PUMA and I will not be silenced.

  258. gary: right on; we don’t choose a nominee based on threats of blacks rioting in the streets.

    Besides, this is just the same crap: it’ over, she can’t win, why don’t you drop your support.

    Well, it’s most definitely NOT over, just because ObamaCo likes to push that campaign strategy. And if it’s not over, then HRC can win. It may not be a pretty convention, but the whole year has been ugly.
    And people rioting in the streets will not help Obama win one bit, as a matter of fact, it would be the kiss of death.

  259. Whatever. I seriously doubt Hillary WANTS the nomination at this point-she knows that Obama supporters and the MSM would both consider it stolen, and resentment among black voters would be enormous. Her odds of winning in the fall (whatever the polls say now) wouldn’t be any better than Obama’s. I think she is assuming an Obama defeat in the fall and waiting until 2012 (while behaving as a loyal Dem beyond reproach in support of the Big 0 for exactly that reason).

  260. myiq2xu – now *that* I would actually tune in for.

  261. gary- No, I didn’t mean that and I agree with you that it’s stupid fearmongering to invoke riots. I meant, from tmy initial comment, that the only way Clinton is the nominee is if Obama gets whacked. Am I being clear enough now?

  262. It’s really deplorable that much of the MSM has been very effective at controlling the narrative that works against all things Clinton throughout this presidential contest.

  263. Why are we “allowing” one group of voters to be placated in deference to a candidate who is sorely unqualified but is there simply based on his ra*ce? Is this a good enough excuse to be put our reasoning faculties on hold and play along? What if he were a different race or religion, would we still be held to the same standards? This is a complete sell out to the function of government. To expect the best but are willing to settle for the least in order that one group has its “demands” met trumps logic.

  264. […] Tuesday: Fear of Foolishness (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) Wouldn’t it just be embarrassing for [Obama] if we made him cancel his [coronation] plans? Damn right it’s embarrassing.  But considerably less so than losing the election in the fall, the third in a row, in a year when Democrats had every possible advantage going for them.  We could not lose, we told ourselves.  And now, we’re looking like the biggest losers on the planet.  Who will take us seriously after this? […]

  265. Yes, it is Obama’s to lose and Hillary’s to win in 2012. Daschel and
    Kerry thought enough of McCain to ask him to switch parties
    and be Kerry’s VP in 2004, and I was hoping he’d do it so Kerry
    could win hands down. Four years of McCain is worth it to clean
    house in the DNC and get the real Democratic Party back. One with
    a fair primary system (no caucuses) and a way to vote regionally.

    If the Convention were to do the right thing and nominate Hillary,
    she’d continue to be slammed by the Obot-infused media. Let
    her stand on the shore, waving Bon Voyage as the Titanic sets
    sail as Edwardo once said. Hillary-Nutter 20012

  266. according to ABC the vp decision has been made, so what’s the hold up?:


  267. Erratum: Edwardian, not Edwardo!

  268. Short of offering her only child up for a public sacrifice, Hillary has done everything asked of her. They still harangue and continue to demand more from her without ever granting her the respect she deserves. Rather than being objective, the MSM has led the cheer leading squad in his favor.

  269. Good afternoon Conflucians!

    WOW – what a great post RD! Thank you!

    And yes, I thirldy second quadruple the motion for Pat Johnson as blogista.

  270. Gore is closing the Convention. Good, this means he is accepting the nomination.

    Anyone but BO!


  271. Vahalla, very well said!

  272. Keep fighting the good fight (until the ‘bitter’ end)!
    Hillary 2008!

  273. Myiq: hilarious, and lovely to picture.

    rich: define “whacked.”

    Every four years, dreams die for politicians wanting to be president. There’s nothing dirty, illegal or unusual about SD’s telling a candidate they can’t support him this time because he can’t win in Nov. It’s not like they have to break their own RULZ or anything in order to choose someone else. If he had won enough pledged delegates by the primary end, fine, but he didn’t and the nomination is still up for grabs.

  274. Caylee’s mother is getting out of jail.

    See Pat, anything is possible.

  275. Carol – LOL!!! That’s right!

  276. Everybody got their iPhones activated? Huff Po is breathlessly announcing that it is any moment now! Oh and for the record, Hillary is not in their official office pool. Looks like Bayh, Kaine, Biden or Sebellius with a “dark horse”stalking from the rear.

    Time to haul out the raisonettes! I am so anxious. (<not)

  277. This made me laugh. Someone commented that this two-headed turtle in Brooklyn reminded him of Obama:

  278. I love this! I don’t find it one bit crazy. It’s absolutely the most logical scenario, including the part about Obama being VP. I don’t like that part but think it’s the smoothest way for Hillary to take top spot. And my opinion of Obama would likely improve if he assumed a more reasonable protege role, instead of his preposterous pretense at leadership.

  279. I don’t care if he picks Biden or Miss Piggy; it’s not news to me, and he’s not getting my vote.

  280. Fox News is reporting the VP pick doesn’t know either. I guess they are getting texted also.

    Good, someone make sure Hillary’s ipod is turned off.

  281. I would like to be the one waiting by the door as they release that lying mother out of jail. A quick ride to McDonald’s and then poof! When questioned I too will use the same excuse as Mom that I have no idea what happened! If they can buy that lousy story they can buy mine.

  282. DVoter: heh, we should have a PUMA Prowl & email the pet store owner with suggestions that it be named Obama or Backtrack or such.

  283. See Pat, anything is possible.

    Then Ed should be “arriving” any day now! Need to tidy up around here.

  284. Pat – remember my families mantra – if you choose to lose it, they can only give you one lethal inj. – make the most of it.

    I’m kidding.

  285. I am at work so can’t read all the comments here today, but wanted to let people know that on the local news this morning, they talked with some of the Mn delegates who announced that they will all be “unified” and voting for Obama even though many were Clinton supporters.

    I am feeling very disappointed about this a wondering what to do.

  286. family’s

  287. If it happened that Hill became the nominee, one reason that she may be able to get through to the Obama base would be that she approaches voters (and journalists) with a lot of humility. She is very clear about the equation. The voters own their votes and they do her a favor by voting for her. So she asks that she be “allowed” to serve them as president.

    I remember during the town hall type meetings during the primaries when a questioner revealed his or her profession as a nurse or a firefighter or as any kind of public servant, before answering their question, Hill would first thank them for the service they do for USA. Obama usually congratulated them for the same.

    Really minor difference but the tone used to be so different. Hill showed respect/ gratitude to the person and the profession. Obama sounded a bit like a teacher congratulating a good student.

  288. This is sounding more and more like the zillion dollar wedding in which everyone figures out that the groom is a dumbass and the bride doesn’t want him. He keeps adding expensive crap to the festivities and mistreats the brides mother and father who are paying for everything. Everyone will be embarrassed if the wedding is canceled but what is the best thing to do. Do you disappoint the groom and the wedding planner or do you make the bride and her family be stuck with the asshole?

  289. Pat: “Looks like Bayh, Kaine, Biden or Sebellius with a “dark horse”stalking from the rear.

    Like Caroline Kennedy, perhaps?

  290. BeBe – you just plan on seeing it played out on Nancy Grace night after night as they try to find out “who really killed……………………………..”

  291. The DNC reminds me of the high powered salesman intent on selling me the generic brand when all along I want the top of the line. They keep insisting they know what is best for me while I keep waving the cash in their face and holding out for the better product. They refuse to hear me until I threaten to take my business elsewhere. This is when we deal!

  292. Carol: Please add 10.00 contribution to Hillary in honor of Bill’s birthday.

  293. Pat and edwardian – At least we know there could be really good “Rose Garden Tea Parties” with the radical militants on the guest list!

    Think “High Society”!

  294. The Democrats primary system is totally corrupt. If the primary system is corrupt then, the Democrats party is corrupt, there is no getting around it. And then the Democrats wonder in amazement, why they can’t win the White House.

  295. edwardian: Nothing they do will surprise me except that the name “Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg” is rather long for the text messaging. The excited Obamabots may just tune out as they are not equipped to sit still long enough as those letters in her name start to come through. Borrrrrrinnnnnngggggg! Now Bayh they may be able to handle.

  296. LOL @ Pat. Sad, but soooo true.

  297. EAJ: I only know what I told the KY Dem Party: the delegates should reflect our primary votes. Otherwise, why should we have them? Why should states spend money to certify them, closing schools & all; why should voters even bother take time off work or show up?

  298. Caroline Kennedy would only come off as extemely self-serving and calculating. Besides, I bet she has a nice little quiet rich life, being thrown into national politics would tear that apart. She would no longer be “hands off.” I mean, she’s not black, she’s only a woman.

  299. RD…. thanks for that reminder… WHY NOT… it is what we want, I just want it the “right way” (if it’s possible there is any path that could lead us there with more fracturing) for HRC. I fear any Dem is going to lose this year…and she’s got to really move though a mine field to arrive in 2012 as a viable candidate.

  300. But, parentofed, Caroline accepting would all be for “the good of the party” and “unity”, no? (puke)

  301. Hillary-zila, on August 19th, 2008 at 1:18 pm Said:

    Hill-zila: I’m cynical enough to believe all politicians are corrupt. But there was something in this primary that was beyond the pale, between the hatefulness of sexism, Howard’s and Obama’s race baiting, and Donna-there-will-be-blood-Brazile. They’ve moved from corrupt into vicious.

  302. parentofed
    Thank you, I will send a letter off to the Mn Dem Party as well. I just don’t like feeling like there is nothing that I can do. I hope you don’t mind if I borrow your wording.

  303. BeBe: Yep! You got it! And we’re the ones that interrupt the preacher when he says, “if anyone is against this union, let them speak now.”

  304. Great post, riverdaughter! It’s a measure of how nervous you are making them that they are bringing their B+ trolls over to try to demoralize us with the “it’s too late to do anything now, maybe next time (sigh)” messages. A cut above the D- “Get over it! Grow Up!” trolls we usually see.

    I’ll be expecting Axelrod himself soon 🙂 I hear him breathing in the background muttering “Your lack of faith disturbs me”. Cue the music.

  305. I got a gut feeling that by the time November rolls around, Americans are just going to positively hate the words “hope,” “change,” and “unity” We’ll all check back here then.

  306. Annie em………….Power turned them into vicious Bullies, and they will do anything to keep the system, because the system, keeps them in power. Get rid of the system and we will get rid of them.

  307. hello quick home for lunch high all lets overwelm the credentials committee with a “Obama let him lose in Denver instead of November!” email campaign.

    We need to get Obama or Dean to say if Obama loses in NOvember we will disband the Democratic party!
    NOw that would be wonderful.

    Maybe get Pelosi to say she will resign as speaker if Obama Loses…

    finally get Donna Brazile to say she will leave the DNC if Obama loses!

    we need to give them an ultimatum! we are calling the shots now-Riverdaughter I believe I Believe!


  308. reply at 1:44 was to edwardian

  309. I’m guessing that Uh-bama’s veep pick will be of the WTF? variety

    Like when Poppy Bush picked Quayle

  310. I think he really wants Kaine, who is basically an Obama clone. But wonder if his “advisors” — whoever they are — will persuade him otherwise.

  311. As a black woman and Obama voter, I can say with absolute certainty that if Hillary were to try and grab the nomination, not only would she lose in November but she would wreck what was left of the Clinton legacy. I could never vote for the candidate of “hard working white Americans.”

    Some of you forget that Hillary had the highest negatives of any candidate running this year. She would be skewered by the media and would enrage my community in a way that no politician has done since the 60s. No way would I vote for her after that. Putting Obama on the ticket would be condecending and patronizing to both us and him. It would be the ultimate “get to the back of the bus.” The DNC is not that stupid. They rely too heavily on black American support for down ticket candidates to alienate us like that. The DNC’s fear is not that we’d vote for McCain, but that we would not vote at all. That would hurt down ticket candidates more than anything else.

    As a strong progressive, I do not think that I could consciously vote for McCain. However, I’d stay home before I vote for Hillary ever again.

  312. I don’t think it’s possible to turn the tide at this late date. But I also don’t think Obama will pick Clinton to be his VP because he has demonized the Clintons in order to galvanize his youth base. Younger people tend to see things in black and white (good – Obama – versus evil – Clinton, old versus new, the past versus the future, etc.). But there’s at least one silver lining: when the Obama ship goes down, and it will, Senator Clinton won’t be on it.

  313. Keisha: And speaking on behalf of Hillary, I am sure she would be just “crushed” to hear that!

  314. Keisha,

    If you are truly a progressive, what could possibly motivate you to vote for Obama?

  315. Keisha, take your racist rhetoric elsewhere. proclaiming Clinton the candidate of “white workers” is offensive and so off base you are either insane or very very stupid (I pick #2).

  316. UNITY………..White House lost………Party in shambles……Democrats primary system, still the same. ……..Looking forward to 2012.

  317. Keisha –

    Go jump off a cliff. We don’t need your support.

    What? You don’t like hearing that?

    Imagine hearing it every day for months and months and months.

    Now, would you vote for someone who said that to you?

    We will not vote for Obama because he told us to f*ck off and die. Get a clue and go drop your droppings elsewhere.

  318. Well as a black male voter, I could NEVER vote for Obama. I find his too many of his “deeds” shameless, irresponsible and beyond the pale. The havoc he and his surrogates have wreaked is almost too corrupt for words. And as a voter — ah heck, as a voter PERIOD I could never vote for Barack “57 states” Obama.

    Not. gonna. happen.

  319. Keisha,

    If you are truly a progressive, what could possibly motivate you to vote for Obama?


    Keisha and Anyone Who Supports Obama:

    What could possibly motivate you to vote for Obama?

  320. Keisha’s under the impression she could come in with the usual “as a black voter” B.S. to stifle and intimidate Hillary and PUMA supporters. Sorry to disappoint ya, “sweetie”, but some of us HIll supporters are of a similar *ethnic” persuasion. BOO!

  321. plus, I would guess that keisha is most likely a 22 y/o white man. Much like our death threat troll who claimed to be an AA woman, and turned out to be a male canadian

  322. Someone please explain to me what Obama has ever done for the black community? He left his own constituents in Chicago out in the cold while played footsie with Rezko and all that grant money which was earmarked to upgrade their living conditions but went instead to political coffers and Rezko’s own pockets. He rode in on the coattails of other legislators in IL and never actually introduced a bill of his own for consideration. He has spent less time in the Senate than any other potential candidate and as far as I can tell the only reason that the black community is voting as a block is that he is black.

    So please do not snark at the rest of us who have deliberated at length about the qualifications we expect from both a candidate and a party. So far, each has come up with severe deficiencies in that regard. He is inexperienced, unqualified and lacking core principles. The fact that he is black has nothing whatsoever to do with his unelectability. He is doing a fine job of that on his own.

  323. keisha got her talking points from Dean!

    Pat, the news media is outside the jail. Now, the release is tomorrow. Dress appropriately.

  324. Gary: “plus, I would guess that keisha is most likely a 22 y/o white man. Much like our death threat troll who claimed to be an AA woman, and turned out to be a male canadian”

    Oh no they di’in’t? Too funny. LOL!

  325. Personally, I think Obama went to that dark alley in NYC looking for a blowjob and wound up getting mugged instead. But I digress. What I really want to say here is that I agree with RD that if you don’t ask, you don’t get. So I am continuing to ask, make that demand, that the SDs do the right thing and support Hillary at the convention. I am going to Denver and am willing to take it to the streets, if necessary, to make my point — that I and others like me have always been part of the core, the real heart of the party, and my heart is sick over what has happened during this primary season. I want my party back, the big-tent party I joined in 1972 and have supported faithfully since then.

    But I am also growing increasingly pessimistic that my party can ever be resurrected. Like PatJ, disenfranchised, and others, I have this gut feeling that dynamics are going on in the background that we do not entirely understand. I came to this nagging suspicion one sleepless morning while watching Fox and Friends. Dem analyst Bob Beckel and a Republican counterpart were talking about the GOP’s dismal prospects for the general election, Hillary’s continuing to fight on, yada yada, with the Republican bemoaning Bush’s horrible poll numbers. Beckel’s reply: “Heh, we’d take George W over Bill Clinton any day of the week.”

    Excuse me? What was this moron talking about? Do the party leaders hate the Clintons? I then started paying attention to the subtext of what these analysts were saying. It became increasingly clear to me that the subtext was purging the party of the Clintons and the core groups that have always supported them. For some reason, they don’t seem to see the traditional core — women, older Americans, blue-collar workers, unions and Hispanics — as the future of the Democratic Party. They seem to want to throw all of us under the bus for … what? Energizing the black voters? The young, well-educated, well-heeled, elitist groups? I can’t quite get my head around the strategy, except that their aim is to move the party extremely left of center. Perhaps they see these groups as more inclined to go along with that.

    I think that what we need to get our heads around is the fact that we are in hand-to-hand combat right now with a foe that we don’t entirely understand yet. My concern is that the Democratic Party may not survive the war. And if that’s the case, so be it. I’m not sure that I can continue to support the new Democratic Party that is emerging right now, anyway. It’s too hypocritical, radical, for my tastes. And if I cannot help to pull it back to the center, then I will help to destroy it.

    Whoa. That sounded radical. Even I didn’t see that one coming. But that’s how disallusioned I am with the party right now. Yes, call me bitter, because that’s what I am. John Kennedy would even be considered too centrist for this new crowd.

    And, by the way, John Kennedy went into the convention trailing by about 500 delegates and came out victorious.

  326. Carol at 12:33,
    I emailed a complaint about Bob Beckel to Fox. The host (don’t know his name) was talking about BO’s problem with the poor/rural/working class and Beckel just said ” Oh no no no. In the south it’s because of the color of his skin. And in Appalachia, too.” Then he launched into a story some “good ‘ole boy” told him once, complete with the F word. Then he talked about how we racists/hicks love to eat that horrible catfish! “Just horrible” he said.

    I wrote to FOX the reason BO won’t get rural votes- all over the country- is because he’s a snob who can’t connect with working class (like the Clintons can) and his friends and associates are criminals!! I told them if they keep that up, I’ll turn them off just like I did CNN and MSNBC and let their advertisers know why. Complain at yourcomments@foxnews.com anyone who has time.

  327. Thanks Edwardian. I believe most AA support for Obama was heartfelt, but when it becomes dogmatic and lock-step, that’s a danger.

    Hillary-zila, I think we’re both headed for Subversives Prison. “Get rid of the system”. I’m in. I’m sick of the excuse that democracy is the worst, except for every other kind of political system. If we accomplish nothing else, I hope PUMA becomes the watchdog (watch-cat?) agency for political integrity.

  328. Carol: If I could I would slap that Casey so hard the voices in her head would be howling. I detest that young woman. And I am sick to death of those parents who are supporting her story. This is more than likely how they raised her, always finding reasons to overlook behavior that should have been corrected with a swift kick in her backside. My heart bleeds for that baby.

  329. As always, it takes the foreign press to tell things as they are. Just check the Jerusalem Post:

    The audacity of resume-padding (or, why Obama makes things up)

    It seems that Obama recognizes that while his résumé titles are impressive, his actual accomplishments are weak. It’s as if he were jockeying to be the next company CEO with little to show for his prior high-profile management positions. So, he does what anyone else does who has spent years coasting on charisma without doing any heavy work: he pads his résumé–stretching the truth here, stealing credit there, and creating the illusion of achievement during his lackadaisical, undistinguished tenure in previous jobs.

    A few examples? Take Obama’s first general election ad. We are told that Obama “passed laws” that “extended healthcare for wounded troops who’d been neglected,” with a citation at the bottom to only one Senate bill: The 2008 Defense Authorization Bill, which passed the Senate by a 91-3 vote. Six Senators did not vote-including Obama. Nor is there evidence that he contributed to its passage in any material way. So, his claim to have “passed laws” amounts to citing a bill that was largely unopposed, that he didn’t vote for, and whose passage he didn’t impact. Even his hometown Chicago Tribune caught this false claim. It’s classic résumé-padding–falsely taking credit for the work of others.

    Or take one of Obama’s standard lines: his claim of “twenty years of public service.” As pundit Michael Medved has pointed out, the numbers don’t add up. Shall we count? Three years in the US Senate (two of which he’s spent running for President), plus seven years in the Illinois State Senate (a part-time gig, during which time he also served as a law professor) equals, at most, ten. Even if we generously throw in his three years as a “community organizer” (whatever that means, let’s count it as public service), that still adds up to just thirteen.
    ( … )
    Obama made yet another inflated boast last month during his visit to Israel. At his press conference in Hamas rocket-bombarded Sderot, Obama talked up “his” efforts to protect Israel from Iran:

    “Just this past week, we passed out of the US Senate Banking Committee – which is my committee – a bill to call for divestment from Iran as way of ratcheting up the pressure to ensure that they don’t obtain a nuclear weapon.” (Emphasis added.)

    Nice try. But as even CNN noted, Obama is not even on that committee. That is one peculiar “mistake” to simply have made by accident. Again, his claiming credit for the work of others just looks like clumsy, transparent résumé embellishment.
    ( …)
    Look at his record: he’s now completed over half of a Senate term; yet, is there even one signature issue he has taken hold of, other than his own presidential run? Similarly, as the New York Times recently pointed out, Obama spent twelve years on the University of Chicago Law School faculty–singularly famous for its intellectual ferment and incubator of scholarship–and produced not even a single scholarly paper. He was President of Harvard Law Review, but wrote nothing himself. Even as a state legislator for seven years-or community organizer for three years, there is little that shows his imprint. OK, to be fair, he did write two books. About himself.
    ( … )
    It’s been said that some people want to be President so they can do something; and some want to be President so they can be something. Obama has accomplished nothing noteworthy despite the golden opportunities and positions he’s had; why should we believe he’d be a different man in the White House?

    No company would hire anyone with Obama’s empty track record, pattern of underachievement and padded résumé to be CEO. Is America really ready to hire him as President?

    This is truly great, but is there anyone honest out there who could not have written this column?

  330. Obama……..What has he done….Period…..What….what, and where is his great accomplishments.

  331. That baby is already in heaven I am sure. What decent human being would give their daughter a month to produce the child before they report her?

    I would have taken her out myself. They need to go to jail with her.

    Did you watch “The Closer” last night? Those were good parents.

  332. Help, I’m in moderation.

  333. I am sick of these Democratic Party people. I’m not interested in Party. Nancy, Dean, Donna, ………. they are party, and I say the Party’s over!

    Punishment, Retribution, Reform 2008

  334. “Thanks Edwardian. I believe most AA support for Obama was heartfelt, but when it becomes dogmatic and lock-step, that’s a danger.”

    True Annie. But no question it was the incessant race-baiting on the part of Team Obama that triggered such hardening reactions towards Hillary’s candidacy within large segments of the black American community. And even that, I’ve noticed of late, has simmered a bit (due largely, in part, to Obama’s continously disappointing that very same community with his ever changing “positions” ).

  335. Bam just made some fabulous slaw!

    I have to go eat.

  336. Carolyn Mann —

    They would take George W. over Bill because they know that George W. is a lot less smart than they are.

    The one thing they can’t stand is someone who really can think and understand things they can’t wrap their tiny brains around.

    And both Clintons are scary smart.

    As is Gore, whom they also hated.

  337. Carolyn Mann: Great analysis. Throw the money grubbing meme in and you have the correct admixture. How they can actually assume to build a “new coalition” while dismissing those of us who were always the party faithful is amazing to me. We are the hardcore elements who fought and struggled for the same issues they no longer accept. Equal rights, one man, one vote, feminism, FMLA, veterans benefits, the list runs the gamut of wins.

    Their formulation leaves many of us out in the cold. The Big Tent has become a pup tent and includes only those who can afford to be there or those who prefer color over commonsense. But they need to be aware: today it is us, tomorrow could very likely be you. Beware the tides of fortune. Can easily rear up and bite you in the ass.

  338. Obama just tossed L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa under the bus with Wesley Clark, Charles Rangel and Jesse Jackson, Sr. The mayor will not be speaking at the convention.


    Keisha, get the frack out of here with that bull. Everybody knows that the only reason most black folks like you are voting for that con artist is because of the color of his skin. Period. He has done absolutely nothing for black people except exploit fears and expectations for his own political gain without having done a damn thing except let black people freeze their asses off in the Chicago cold, and he has promised to do even less if he’s elected.

    Yeah, Obama has 80-90% of the black vote, and he’s gonna lose. Believe that.

    Don’t you think that democratic politicians are paying attention and making adjustments? Latino is the new black, in case you haven’t heard.

  339. […] Tuesday: Fear of Foolishness (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) Wouldn’t it just be embarrassing for [Obama] if we made him cancel his [coronation] plans? Damn right it’s embarrassing. But considerably less so than losing the election in the fall, the third in a row, in a year when Democrats had every possible advantage going for them. We could not lose, we told ourselves. And now, we’re looking like the biggest losers on the planet. Who will take us seriously after this? […]

  340. sonya: “Everybody knows that the only reason most black folks like you are voting for that con artist is because of the color of his skin. Period. He has done absolutely nothing for black people except exploit fears and expectations for his own political gain without having done a damn thing except let black people freeze their asses off in the Chicago cold, and he has promised to do even less if he’s elected. ”

    And let the congregation say “Amen”. AMEN!

  341. RD, You are right, this is no time to abandon ship. It doesn’t look like a good bet, what with O purging HRC’s delegates and all. I don’t much care about the rented hall, though you have to see that this was set up a long time ago. Planning the acceptance on MLK’s speech anniversary is not geared towards anyone but a black candidate. As for riots in the street. Doubtful, but most of the people I meet and talk with, regardless of age, all say,”okay, bring it on.”They are not cowed by threats. My generation has lived a lot and seen a lot, and are quite willing to fight for this country, however that is necessary.

    Do I think that HRC has a chance in Denver? Well the delegates would have to be a lot braver than I think most of them are. Yes, they should see the writing on the wall…NO IN NOVEMBER… and act accordingly. Still, a lot of them have taken money for their support, or are afraid of a black backlash, and aren’t seeing very clearly. It might be a good time to remind them that O has already purged a number of black leaders for their support of HRC. Love him or hate him, Jesse Jackson has been a black leader for decades and always treated with respect by the DNC, no invite to speak this time. O has no concept of respecting your opposition. Charlie Rangel, standing up for black people for most of his life…on the outside now, even though he is the one who pushed HRC to cave after June 3 so the New York delegation could,”get on board” with O “before the train leaves the station”.

    I guess he missed that train.So,did a lot of other black politicians who were on the podium with HRC in every venue she visited.

    So, again, do I think the Dems. in the hall will be able to get their heads out of you know where to pull this off? Too afraid I think butthey should know what lies beyong if they don.t. and we should know what lies beyond if they don’t. I truly do not beleive he can make it through Nov., and that could leave lus with a very messy DNC to clean out and clean up. People will have to be willing to do the work that we have allowed people like Dean, and Brazile and the others to do. It won’t be me, I served my time in a much earlier life, but I have to believe that there are younger people out here who can and will take this next step and stand up for what the Dem. party, and basically ,this country used to represent.

  342. Thank you warrior princess for your wise words and all you have done over the years for our party. I too hope younger people will take up the gauntlet and bring the Democratic Party back to the party of the people.


  343. Thanks for this post, RD. I wish.

    But I seriously think that November is the time to get rid of Obama, and to do so on his own terms. His loss to McCain would shake up the party and send The One back to the Senate, where he can languish until his constituents vote him out in 2012.

    Much as I would love to see Hillary nominated, it would be, as others have said, a train wreck of a convention, and the election would still be close. And if Senator Clinton should lose, that would permanently shut down her presidential aspirations while positioning Obama and his frothing minions for another run in 2012.

    I think the country would be best off with divided government this time–Republican (one-term) president, Democratic-majority Congress. I don’t trust the Democrats not to rubber-stamp Obama’s Social Security privatization plan, whereas they would have to shut down such a plan as advanced by McCain.

  344. The thing that pisses me off the most is Keisha’s claim that:

    I could never vote for the candidate of “hard working white Americans.”

    Then she goes on to say:

    “would enrage my community in a way that no politician has done since the 60s.

    Okay, where I came from that is r@cist as hell. Hard working Americans are just that, hard working Americans, no matter your color, if you work because you must to feed your family skin tone should not be an issue.

    Then the statement “my community”, exactly what is your community? Is it different from my community? My grandchildren are African-American/white and Thai-American/white, so am I a part of this “community”, and what about my community.

    Keisha you are barking up the wrong damn tree.

    This is POTUS and not a way to placate a community or a group, it is about “ALL OF US”, every last damn person in this country and your candidate that your “community” supports is a lying sneaky cheat, who rode into the position he has right now because of skin tone. You should be enraged, if you are a black woman, because he has used you to get where he is and he will discard you when he is done. It is crowded under this bus, you will not like it.

  345. YES!!! I keep telling my partner this EVERYDAY!!! Hillary can STILL get the nomination. She can still be NOMINATED!! IT IS NOT A DONE DEAL!!! OBAMA DOES NOT HAVE THE NOMINATION!! I don’t care what NBC/MSNBC NYTimes WSJ and all those hack outfits that pass for journalistic outlets say. HE IS NOT THE NOMINEE!! NOT YET!!! and MAYBE NOT EVER!
    We have to be positive and KNOW that Hillary can still pull this out. With PUMA, Just Say No and all the rest of us who KNOW she is the BEST candidate. She still has a horse in this race, and she is pulling up on the inside, kicking in out in the homestretch and can win it by a nose hair!! I have seen this happen, and believe me no one is more surprised than the winner herself. So thanks RD, and hand in there everyone. Don’t give up when we’re about the cross the finish line. Then look out McCain!! EEEEE HAAAWW!!!!!!!!!

  346. Amen, Edwardian.

    BO has used his Saul Alinsky “organizing” training to “aggitate” the black community (e.g., his Father’s Day “sermon”), pushing them to do what he has decided is the right thing for them.

    BO also aggitates the white community by appealing to guilt and playing the race card when necessary (although I’m sure in his mind he is simply “aggitating” which is a GOOD thing — get people riled up so we can CHANGE.)

    The more we see BO on TV and read about his background, the more questions are raised and the more ordinary people of every color are turning away.

  347. state – I love Nutter (Oh, does that make me a r*cist?)

    And by the way, Eddy is not fast!

  348. Just got a call from my daughter, who grew up in California but now lives in Raleigh, NC. She said that someone she didn’t know, a white person, just engaged her in conversation about who she voted for in the primary. When she told them Hillary, they accused her of being a “closet racist.” She was so stunned, she just turned and walked away without saying a word. Now, she is spitting mad.

    What this person didn’t know about Jennifer is that her BFF from kindergarten through her 20s, when the girl died mysteriously, was black! You can call my daughter a lot of things — stridently opinionated comes to mind (don’t know where she got that), but racist she ain’t. I think she kind of gets now why I’ve gone so off-the-rails in this campaign. We just had a conversation less than two weeks ago about my being “too obsessed” with this election. I would be laughing about her epiphany now, if it weren’t so damn sad.

  349. Carolyn posted this link to an article on wsj. Thanks!


    The article is a thing of beauty. One may not like Thomas Clarence but one cannot refute the logic of this article. PUMAs please consider publicizing this or at least mailing the link to friends.

    WSJ requires paid subscription … so most people wont have access to this article unless you link it.

  350. There is not one candidate, Hillary or otherwise, who is “owed” the vote based on nothing more than gender, race, or military service. You have to go out there and earn it. As far as I can tell, Obama has not done anything to merit this fascination other than the steady beat of the MSM and the DNC who wish to make “history” through his nomination. That being said, if this becomes the only qualification to be president why not just elect Michael Phelps and get it over with. He has no real experience outside of swimming but he sure has a lot of medals! Makes as much sense as this candidacy being shoved down our throats.

  351. Would someone do the rest of us a service and flush that abominable troll down the toilet and into the sewer where he came from? Stupid asshole that he is!

  352. BO has reserved a big room in Springfield Illinois for Saturday. That had better not be anywhere close to where Hillary was born and raised.

  353. Carolyn, I live in chapel hill, but I work in Raleigh. You probably know, but Obama is going to be here this afternoon (actually about 1/2 mile from where I’m sitting) so he’s sent his horrible karma ahead of him. I had someone in my office send out an email to everyone yesterday reminding everyone to go get their tickets–as if there were no question that we support him –. I was kind of offended by that, but then she came in and said she waited over an hour to get tickets then was turned away….tell your sister to hang in there…and to come online with us…we would love to meet some triangle pumas. 🙂

  354. We love bitter old queens here. I wear my Tiara everyday just to stay in practice. The hand wave is getting a little difficult now that I have carpal tunnel!


  355. edwardian, on August 19th, 2008 at 2:18 pm Said:

    I agree. They gamed both black and white voters (as usual). Right now ripples of outrage have been created at websites like The Confluence, but I think a tsunami of anger is going to hit when all the voters wake up. That might be the “simmering” you describe among the AAs. And I also agree with so many posters who are looking forward to the DEMISE of the Democratic party, I’m so disgusted with the hypocrisy. Once again they distract us with the race card, so we won’t focus on the economic struggle and overwork people of all races experience in this country. I hope these politicos are rattled down to their very souls and everyone of their jobs is jeopardized.

  356. I know I’m coming in late on this one. RD, I will NEVER give up hope that Hillary can be our president. As for “riots in the streets reminiscent of ’68”, what a bunch of bull. Back then, kids were being drafted and sent off to die needlessly in Vietnam. Big difference. As for the Clintons losing the AA vote–hasn’t that already happened? My God, there’s one ‘bot at the DNC blogsite that says Bill needs to “kiss and make up the AA community”. Are you kidding me? As for “destroying the Democratic Party”, WTF is left of it that most of us here remember as our party? I’m letting it go. That silver lining is the emergence of a true VIABLE working 3rd party. That’s where I’m headed after November 4th. I’m working-class and proud of it. I don’t need validation from ANYONE at the DNC any longer.

  357. Carol, you’re awesome!! can we come interview you on our way back from denver?

  358. I’m in Texas!

  359. I am a PUMA that does not think she will win the nomination but not for the reasons that you listed. I think that the anti-Clinton part of the Democratic Party has gone to such lengths thus far to give Obama the nomination that, come hell or high water, that is what is going to happen.

    This is from an email exchange I had with a superdelegate (former state assembly leader) last week:

    Understand your concerns about Obama and his lack of experience. That’s why I supported Hillary. The problem here is that Senator Clinton has already endorsed Obama and asked her supporters to follow her lead. We have not had a convention where a primary contender who has announced allegiance to the nominee had his/her name placed in nomination. That’s my quandry.

    I had some other email exchanges with superdelegates and came away with the realization that the majority of them are just like the majority of the general population. They don’t really want to think for themselves and they want to go with the crowd and do what has always been done.

    Very few of them are like PUMAs. That’s the thing I think has been the most amazing thing about the PUMA movement. I think that most PUMAs are the nonconformists who are highly resistant to peer pressure. We are the people who don’t usually form into groups which is why what we’ve done was never expected.

    I have emailed superdelegates to get Hillary into nomination but I think the result will be more likely embarrassment for the corrupt leadership and Obama which is still a worthwhile goal in order to remove them after he loses the election in Nov.

    The superdelegates will not do what they should and support Hillary unless she tells them to. At this point I think that she knows that even if she should win the nomination at this point she would have a huge uphill climb. Obama has taken over the DNC offices everywhere, he has directed donors to give money to him instead of the DNC so that he could them pass it on to the DNC (I’m sure after he secures the nomination). To undo all of that at this point is probably not possible. He now has the entire party over a barrel and I’m sure Hillary knows it. We are royally scr%wed.

    That doesn’t mean I’m giving up. If I could be in Denver protesting next week I would. I just see it more like the Spartans in the “300” fighting an unwinnable battle against the overwhelming forces of the god-king so that the war can be won later on.

  360. garychapelhill,

    I’ll see what I can do about getting Jen to join The Confluence. But to be honest, she spends most of her time chasing around a 16-month-old, strong-willed daughter these days, at least when she’s not busy working at one of the colleges there trying to teach uninterested female students about theater design.

  361. Hmm…seems like we have a lot of moronic trolls stopping by to remind us that they will NEVER vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination. WAAAH.

    F*ck off.

    Do you really think you’re helping your candidate who will unfortunately likely get the nomination? Your ignorance and stupidity to think that coming here to tell us that you hate Hillary or that you don’t understand our positions will make us vote for your Messiah?

    McCain will win the election and the only people you have to blame are the DNC, Obama, and yourself for alienating millions of voters.

  362. Hey, “Not Your Sweetie” has a great post or a post by a conservative blogger. Very interesting.


  363. “Hey, “Not Your Sweetie” has a great post or a post by a conservative blogger. Very interesting.”

    Jeepers I am a lousy typist…make that “post OF a post”

  364. keisha, if she doesn’t get the nomination come on back here on Nov 5th when Obama gets his ASS handed to him by the republicans, you’ll have nobody but your stupid ass to blame, and don’t forget, we told you so.

  365. Hey Keisha, thanks, but I hope you don’t mind if we just keep on keeping on – supporting Hillary Clinton. And, BTW don’t think we don’t know you wouldn’t be here if you weren’t worried. Oh, but check back with us in November, OK? We’ll have a lot to discuss then, no matter what happens next week…..

  366. btw Milan, do the people at verio know that you are impersonating an african american woman and trolling sites from work????

  367. LOL Gary…way to go.

  368. I find BTD at TalkLeft completely disingenuous.

    He constantly harps about how much he dislikes Obama and thinks he’s bungling the campaign, he feels Hillary and others were better choices, he outlines how Obama doesn’t support liberal/progressive policies he once espoused, he’s not happy with the behavior of the DNC and party leaders.

    But he’s going to bend over, get screwed and vote for Obama anyway. Yup, that’s a really sensible way to behave. Nothing nuts about that. People do you dirty and the best thing to do is…nothing at all and invite them to do it to you again. What’s that quote about insanity – you repeat the same behavior over and over again and expect a different result? That would define BTD and the rest of the nose-holding Democratic contingent who plan to vote for Obama, in spite of themselves. (And they say Republicans are self-deluded…)

  369. Can’t you just see him/her…hunched over the keyboard trying to look soooooo busy!

  370. Remember that old Frank Sinatra song “high hopes”
    not the backtrack version of hope but real hope that little things cause big changes.
    What started here in a comment has grown beyond belief.
    I want PUMA to go on for generations. It is our job as citizens to make our government remain “for the people and by the people”.
    When either party is on the wrong track for the country they must be held accountable.
    The so called elite of the new democratic party have to be removed so they can no longer damage America.
    The republican party seems to be reorganizing more toward the main stream of America.
    The damage that the right wing neocons did to America is now out in the open. and the party is getting rid of the neo cons.
    Part of the problem was that weak democrats stood by and did nothing.
    We can not ever let that happen again.

    According to my aunt, one of my ancestors was a captain of the USS Constitution..
    He sank two british ships at the same time.
    So yes the improbable is possible.



  371. Great post!

    Brace yourselves and keep your hands and feet inside at all times!

  372. Hillary will be POTUS in 2009. Period.

  373. they can’t quite muster the courage to say that they would prefer she were in the driver’s seat headed into the fall

    MAN UP as I like to say.

  374. “btw Milan, do the people at verio know that you are impersonating an african american woman and trolling sites from work????”

    LOL! 100 pts. to Gary.

  375. Yes, if Hillary gets the nomination there will lots of Obama supporters who won’t vote for Hillary. BUT, and this is important – polls during the primary season showed there are MANY Republicans who would vote for Hillary over McCain.. So its pretty obvious she’d win enuogh electoral votes to be elected. This was the obvious truth that was consistently overlooked by the DNC and the media throughout the primary season. No question she would be elected over McCain. Obama, not so much.

  376. Gary: “Bigfoot as a possible VP for Obama”

    Yeah, until Bigfoot gets caught in a stall with Larry Craig…

    “umm, er, that is not the Sasquatch I knew, er, and besides, umm, I thought I was getting a celebrity endorsement from Chewbacca.” 😉

  377. Delegates. JUST DO IT! if Hillary is our nominee she will change the DNC. Just Do It! Say No to Obama the crooked, inexperienced, Islam loving, anti white candidate. Send him Packing. Step up to the plate. Save Democracy! Save our Freedoms! Save America!
    Save the middle class. Save us all from this awful person who wants to destroy America! Grow a backbone and take a stand. Hillary won already. Stolen elections are not DEMOCRACY! Cast for Hillary. It’s the right thing to do.

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