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Self-determination and Revolution

Here is the latest from The Denver Group:

“We are the ones no one was expecting.” –Darragh Murphy

Keep the fundraiser going for our presence in Denver.  Contribute here.

Update: Murphy posted that we have met our goal of $4000.00 for today.  Yeah!  The Confluence contributed almost $1000 towards that goal.  Tomorrow, we are shooting for $6000.  Everyone who has donated can sit on their hands so others can step up and help us meet this challenge.

I would also like to thank the many people who contributed to Gary and Mawm’s Great RV Adventure fund.  With your help, they won’t have to panhandle through the panhandles to keep the gas tank full (although we may have to have another fundraiser to get them back.).  Many, many thanks to out generous readers.

FYI- The most read post on The Confluence is Puma Power.  It’s been viewed 22,305 times. 22,306. 22,307…

Don’t forget to tune into Meet me in Denver with Murphy and Friends tonight at 9:00PM EST on NQR.

346 Responses

  1. Hey, I wasn’t around for the FAR (First American Revolutions), but I plan on participating and winning the SAR (Second American Revolution). PUMA

  2. Oh, I am in!

  3. Oh, yeah!!!! Out-standing.

  4. That was great!

  5. Carol, on August 16th, 2008 at 7:50 pm Said:
    Guys and Gals – I have been working all day. My ribcage is taking a beating laughing out loud at all of your comments!

    PUMAPAC G&M Hillary

    Fredster $ 25
    Karolina NYC $25 $ 25

    Grand Totals:

    $535 $495 $ 10

    Come on let’s get this going. We are wayyyyyyyyyy short!

    PUMA Haka :mrgreen:


  7. Cool video!

  8. I went to the official website of the Dem Conventions and saw this on the front page:

    Democratic Convention To Highlight Diverse Community Of Faith Leaders Working Toward Common Good
    First-Ever Faith Caucus Meetings to be Held at Democratic Convention

    Great, they are going to try and bring the right wing religious folks into the Dem party. You know, those intolerent, anti-feminist, anti-gay anti-individualists. I think going forward the Parties should just exchange names. Country before party.

    I got my first Obama mailing, and for about 15 seconds I considered openning the envelope. But sanity prevailed.

  9. Here’s a little something for the road, in honor of Darragh and Will for showing such class and grace on that Schuster show.

    Donation amount: $25.00 USD

    Contributor: Janet XXXXXXXX
    Georgia, USA

  10. Put $20 down for me…….Buy some PUMA/300 sheilds.


  11. Once again, I was left behind on the dead thread. Here’s my last comment:

    Speaking of unhappy superdelegates, the Sunday NYT has a story about a bunch of them in swing state who want Obama to get more specific about his policies and address economic issues. They complain that he isn’t attracting Hillary’s supporters into the fold. Check out this delusional quote:

    “…his agreement to a roll-call vote on Mrs. Clinton’s candidacy at the convention should bring her disappointed supporters into the fold.”

    Yeah, right. Hahahahahahahahahahaha!


  12. Make sure you see an inquiry to


    as to when and where Senator Clinton’s Acceptance Speech will be held should the Super Delegates do their job and elect the most qualified candidate.


  13. Cool video!

  14. Okay they are beating our butts over at PUMAPAC:

    PUMAPAC G&M Hillary

    Hillary-zilla $ 30
    Janet $ 25

    Grand Total: $590 $495 $10

    We need to buy G&M at least 1 more tank of gas (a couple of bags of chips and some gum!)

    BO got a haircut and his hair is turning blonde!

    PUMA Haka :mrgreen:

  15. I’m not sure if my post went into moderation but, here goes again:

    This is for Darragh, Will and Denver Group:

    “You say you want a revolution, well, you know,
    We all want to change the world …”

    This is for Dean & Co.:
    You say you got a real solution
    Well, you know
    We’d all love to see the plan
    You ask me for a contribution
    Well, you know
    We’re doing what we can
    But when you want money
    for people with minds that hate
    All I can tell is brother you have to wait …”

    Aaaand this is for our girl, Hillary:
    “Don’t you know it’s gonna be all right
    all right, all right ”

    Great ad Denver Group and everything might just be “all right.”

  16. wonderful video – I have an engagement to fgo to and I will be back sooon


  17. this is a really great video from one of our very own, “won’tbackdown”.
    I think this should be played in Denver.

  18. No one is changing the totals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  19. It’s hard to meet any goals on a weekend,but we will get their.

  20. PumaPac $50.00

  21. Carol,

    Does my $20 donation to Denver Group count towards a total? 🙂

    Also, I’m listening to BO on the CNN presentation, yawn. Uhm, er, ah, platitude, erh, quote from a family member, uh, er, empty vacuous statement…. Maddening.

  22. @ elixir: *Perfect!* Bet one of our so-talented video artists could make good use of your lyrics 🙂

  23. Is McCain doing as well as I’m being told on the forum. By the way, you can watch it on Fox, too.

  24. PUMAPAC G&M Hillary

    e2gatto $ 50
    elixir $ 20

    Grand Totals: $660 $495 $10

    Thanks so much.

    PUMA Haka :mrgreen:

  25. Riverdaughter-

    Yes, I was your friend from the Spring, battling it out with you during the primaries if you remember.

    Politically, Obama “should” ask Hill to be the V.P. But he won’t because I have a feeling its personal. My friends think I’m crazy when I say that he should. I figured if he was up by a larger margin he would go with the other no-names that are available. But to NOT pick Hillary at this point seems like a very poor electoral strategy based on the pure numbers. My prediction, not that we would ever know, is that if he has Hillary, they’ll win by 8-10 points and an electoral college landslide. He picks Kaine (who we kiddin’ thats where this is headed).

    FYI – I’m an Obama supporter but disgusted with what they did to Wes Clark. I loved Wes Clark and thought he could be a friggin’ V.P. candidate. Guess I was off on that one.


  26. Oops..finishing my last comment…if he picks Kaine (who we kiddin’ thats where this is headed), they’ll win by a squeeker or even worse, lose in Kerry-like fashion. If he picks Evan Bayh, they’ll lose by 10 points. It’s like picking Bush. I like Biden. But he talks too much, and we already have the northeast liberals in our pocket.



  27. Chilling ad, luurrve the drumbeats!

  28. The NQR show tonight is AMAZING! Listen to the podcast if you miss it.

  29. Cool video, Darragh.
    Back later…….

  30. This is from a NYT blog post on the faith forum:

    “He [Obama] also recalled that he had voted against the confirmation of John G. Roberts as Chief Justice and said that judgment had been confirmed by a number of Roberts decisions that, Mr. Obama said, improperly expanded executive authority at the expense of Congress and the judiciary.”

    The real story is that Obama wanted to vote to confirm Judge Roberts but had to be told not to by an advisor Pete Rouse. Here is the WaPo article. Interesting read.

  31. Riverdaughter I loved your anecdote last night on the radio about the school board – you said you saw people (fellow school board commissioners) who would enter a meeting so committed to one issue, but after hearing parents and constituents they would so easily be swayed to vote the other way.

    Could you write a post about that please? It was very motivating.

  32. The McCain …. Obama..forum.

    McCain was the crytal clear winner.

    Obama was so, out of it.

  33. Catfish,

    RD did write a post about that. I’ll see if I can find it.

  34. Dr. Bledsoe is absolutely fantastic! What a great guest! She is so inspiring.

  35. OK how do we donate money to Sahara’s group? I just donated to PUMA PAC.

  36. catfish – how much?

  37. The Rise 2008

  38. Eddy is in love now with Dr. Bledsoe. I do we believe we have lost him Patty.

  39. Plus, she is younger and lives closer to him.

  40. Carol – Oh just $20. It was not much at all but it’s what I could afford.

  41. Send him back!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is overfed, undernourished, disheveled, disorientated, uncomfortable, and needs a bath.

  42. I think Eddy is just trying to make me jealous as I have made him sit here as I have gone ‘gaga’ over the male swimmers for the last week.

  43. Dear Alice
    This email confirms that you have donated Puma PAC $100.00 USD using PayPal.

    Donation Details

    Donation amount: $100.00 USD
    Total: $100.00 USD
    Purpose: For The Confluence
    Contributor: Alice

  44. Is the show still on? I jsut got back from my folks house.

  45. I don’t quite know where I posted it but I also donated $100.00 for Gary and Mawm’s great adventure. I think the details went to another thread.


  46. was that the religious forum that NO one probalby watched because of the olympics

  47. Did everybody listen to Murphy? WOW, Dr. Bledsoe blew me away! She’s one very powerful voice for Hillary and the PUMA movement!

  48. katiebird; Just ended.

  49. BTW…did you see the 38 year old Romanian woman win the Marathon?

  50. SherryNC: She was amazing!

  51. I refused to watch the forum. Just another hour or two devoted to pandering.

  52. Obama lost badly tonight, so, MSNBC did no follow up after the show. Threw OBAMA under the bus.

  53. Kicked in $50 for the cause at Pumapac. Stir it up!

  54. Hillary-zila: Anything he did worth mentioning?

  55. Oh, I missed it all. Was the forum a debate format?

  56. $500 million can get you to 44% in the polls. In American anything is possible!

  57. Nothing ……The DNC…..Better wake up.

  58. The following is a snippet from a post by TM describing an apparent abysmal Obama appearance with Rick Warren:

    “Obama could have had policy answers ready to help push forward why Democratic policies are grounded in humanity and morality, which proves why he’d be a much better president. Instead he offered his standard word fogs without any goal whatsoever, much like he did in the primaries where Clinton regularly cleaned his clock. McCain came with policy talking points and a goal. Our guy better get a debate drill sargeant in and do some work, because so far there’s no evidence he’s going to best McCain in them. Obama’s hour is now, minus the Clarence Thomas answers, completely forgettable. Not good. McCain even got in an answer on Georgia and Russia, which folded into freedom and energy issues. Minus the ridiculous, ad nauseam “my friend” belches, quite a performance for the neocon McCain. Why do you want to be president? I can’t remember Obama’s answer. McCain’s came in a sound bite: “I want to inspire a generation of Americans to serve a cause greater than their self-interest.” Obama better game up.”

  59. wow….that line summed up Obama pretty well.

  60. The supers need to come out of their collective fog if this is the best he can do. Even TM pointed out that he may not look all that good come the real debates. Oh well, we could have had Hillary. She would have shrunk McCain by inches.

  61. All rightey!

    PUMAPAC G&M Hillary

    catfish $ 20
    Alice $100 $100
    ugsome $ 50

    Grand Totals: $830 $595 $10

    PUMA Haka :mrgreen:

    As Dara Torres just won the Silver and about to swim the IM, the commentator just made a very unusual remark about the IM team – “They all bring a lot of experience!” – Didn’t someone give them the memo that we should have just sent “Hope and Change and their cousins over to swim the IM?”

  62. Pat, do I remember correctly that Dr. Bledsoe said she is just 50? She sounds ageless, so wise… as others were saying on the blog, her voice is very similar to Dr. Maya Angelou’s. The same calm power, the same certainty within.

  63. Actually, Sen. Obama did say that people should remember the victims of poverty, racism, and (wait for it) sexism, and remember something to the effect of that h=which you do to the least of my people.

  64. The forum was …..Obama asked Queston for one hour….Mc…..locked away ….MC for and hour…..same questions ….. Mc Cain was cystal clear. Obama ify, and so, so.

  65. Wonder how Obama would have explained his “moral compass” if asked why he let his constituency freeze during some Chicago winters while he played BFF to Rezko and never asked for an accounting of that missing funding that found its way into political coffers. I am sure his apologists can come up with a plausible excuse.

  66. SherryNC: Thank you for that Maya Angelou reference. She did remind me of someone but it kept eluding me. You are right n target!

  67. Hillary-zila: Did Obama do a lot of heming and hawing? I cannot stand to listen to him.

  68. Obama private thought:
    “Help me! I wanna go home!”
    C’mon, PUMAs, help a brother out.

  69. Cinie; Did you watch it? Too excruciating for me.

  70. Phelps ready to swim.

  71. Absolutely…..aaah,oooh.. aaaah……….and McCain was the best I have ever seen him and I am not a fan.

  72. Nope, Pat, didn’t have to. Doesn’t take a psychic to channel Obuhbuh’s deep, dark secret. He’s been sending out “I’m in over my head” vibes since the end of the primaries. From what I’m reading, they just seem to be getting stronger, that’s all.

  73. Damn – Mark Spitz is still so good looking! (Now Eddy is really pissed!)

  74. I am sure the apologists and excuse makers will say that it was unfair since, geez louise, he has been on vacation all week!

    If you need to “prepare” yourself to answer questions about your core principles and innermost beliefs, then something is not right. Those questions should not be viewed as “difficult” to frame since THEY ARE WHAT FORMS YOU AS A HUMAN BEING!!

  75. Carol, I think he’s better looking now than he used to be.

  76. I do not think hourly bulletins relating to the “houseguest” are helpful. It merely increases my anxiety and concern. I am thankful that he could live off his own fat for a few weeks, but really!!

  77. caught a remark from interviewer after forum saying B0 was sitting with Axelrod looking very confident with a mouth full of nuts-

  78. Phelps getting ready to swim

  79. Pat, I had the same thought and even wrote about it, comparing Obuhbuh to Muhammad Ali, a man with the courage to stand up for his religious beliefs in the racial climate that existed 40 years ago. Even though Obie claims to be Christian, not an unpopular faith, he couldn’t even stand up for that. How can that be progress?

  80. I took one for the team and watched the forum this evening although I had to pop Pepcid like it was Pez.

    H’zilla is right — McCain cleaned BZero’s clock, took him to school and even if he stayed late still didn’t get it. The guy can’t think on his feet as Hillary proved 22 times — if ums, errrs, ughs and ahhhs were counted, BZero would have led by several hundred. McCain was crisp, short, decisive and on his game.

    Even David Gurgle agrees that BZero couldn’t have blown it any more if he had a tire gauge in his mouth.

  81. Phala: He lacks introspection. He is as much delighted with his own self as his 20 something supporters. I suppose if everyday people told me how “wonderful” I was I would soon come to believe it.

  82. I took one for the team and watched the forum this evening although I had to pop Pepcid like it was Pez.

    The visual just sent me into hysterics. Again.

  83. Phelps just made History! God Bless America!

  84. Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!! So deserved. I bet his Mom is just beaming.

  85. Arianna’s not even trying to hide her allegience to the Obamanation anymore

    We have rolled out our first local version of The Huffington Post. HuffPost Chicago is part local news source, part resource guide, and part virtual soap box — featuring a collection of bloggers who know and love Chicago.

    I feel sorry that Chicago is going to have its name tarnished throughout history for being associated with this bozo.

  86. Fox is re-running the forum. It’s pretty horrible. I caught it just as BO was saying that America isn’t good at taking care of the Least Among Us.

    Nice man. He doesn’t even know me and he says this? Has he ever been inside an Urban Public Library?

  87. If he wins is Chicago going to be the new capital?

  88. The question that sent me around the bend and back again was, “What was your hardest decision?” BZero said the war and how he talked to so many people about it and agonized he was. The truth is he was called by the heiress to the Hilton fortune to be a substitute speaker (BZero was courting her as a contributor and fundraiser — she is now on his Finance Committee). He had all of a day to prepare to give the speech since he was the substitute. This is the only thing the guy has and he has ridden it like a 25 cent electric Wal-Mart pony.

    He would have been more truthful if he had answered, “SPF 15 or SPF 20, I just got back from vacay you know.”

  89. Fox News reporter just said: Senator Obama is about to talk with (whoever) and answer “is he too green to be the world leader?”

    I say no, he is just too bloody stupid!


  90. I love Michael Phelps and I didn’t even care up until today.

    Go, baby!

  91. God Bless all of fabulous Athletes! They make us proud! They prove experience counts!

  92. kos diarists, as predictable as the day is long: Of course Obama sucked, it was McCain’s base. He’s not pandering to the evangelicals…yada yada yada.

  93. katiebird; I am not sure he even reads a book. That alone is scary enough. I want to shout, “What about those poor and indigent in Chicago you absolute good for nothing asshole!!!”

  94. he talks about humility later but my earlier remark describes he doesn’t know what it means

  95. Horns could have sprouted on his head and the number 66 could have appeared in neon on his forehead and they would give him credit for his coordinated wardrobe. Christ these people irritate me!

  96. Pat wouldn’t just love to see a commercial with his quote and then someone from those very citizens in his district–unforgivable

  97. 8 of 8 and Phelps can still be humble and give credit to his relay teammates. that is America

  98. I imagine McCain and friends are t – ing up a video with all of the lovely areas of Chicago that BO and Rezko r*ped!

    I can hardly wait for the DVD as I am sure it will be a feature film.


  99. Humility! Doesn’t that happen when there is a lot of moisture in the air and it gets hot and sticky? A lot of the people from my district happened to mention that at one time. I think I was on vacation

  100. I think it is hysterical that they are now letting his gray hair show.

  101. My husband watched the forum on fox and when I walked through the room his only statement was “the DNC has really F&^$%d us”

  102. I wonder if Arianna Huffington will also get a speaking role at the convention? Since most of the heavies have been given the heave ho there must still be some room left up there. She has promoted this idiot for months and deserves a lot of the credit. Be interesting to see the reaction from his 20 something fan base when this over 50 cheerleader shows up.

  103. 1/2 Fl Voter: So true.

  104. A sampling of the intellectuals over at Huffpoop:

    McCain had the questions beforehand because he was so good.

    The people in the audience are stupid.

    Obama shouldn’t have gone.

    One poor soul from TN actually said, “Obama needs Hillary if he wants to win.” That person was promptly pummeled like a pinata with the winning lottery numbers inside.

  105. prolix: I am screaming over here! The pinata reference was a beaut!!!

  106. Prolix, you watched? did he really say his three most admired people were his wife, his grandmother and Ted Kennedy? I read that elsewhere and wasn’t sure if it was a joke or not.

  107. Prolix – hysterical.

  108. The DNC……after Obama’s performance tonight. has got to have doubts. But, they won’t.

  109. Why is his mother not in that list?

  110. He has some dandruff on his collar! That’s it – I absolutely will never vote for him now!

  111. I live and vote in Massachusetts and admittedly this is Ted Kennedy country. However, most of the admiration for Ted is based almost exclusively on his championing the working class. You cannot go too deeply here because one word always finds its way to the surface: Chappaquidick. Not a particularly pretty picture of a profile in courage. So it is merely best to just say he has served the little guy and let it go at that.

  112. Phelps and torres rock-just got home phelps 8 for 8 in 08! Torres 7 medals and forty one years old! yes it is sweet!


  113. Carol: Somewhere I either read or heard that he did not attend his mother’s funeral. I could be wrong but I know there was some mention of this somewhere.

  114. “I am not inferring that everyone making over $250k a year is living on easy street……………….”, BO at the forum.

    McCain doesn’t have to do anything, this guy is a blooming idiot!

  115. Kiki, it was MO, his grandmother who he checks in on all important decisions (acoustics under the bus must be pretty good) and I didn’t get the third one because I was choking on my 18th Pepcid of the evening. It wasn’t Teddy though, if I think of it, I’ll chime in.

  116. Carol: You are kidding, right? He said easy street pertaining to those earning $250K? And he is not an elitist? Holy crap!

  117. Thank you, RD, for highlighting the YouTube.

  118. DANDRUFF?

    Carol, I’m with you. Me vote for Obama? NObama!

  119. Yep he said it – McCain is in hog heaven!

    I have a feeling that we will hear that he has laryngitis for the next week!

  120. His grandmother is 86 years old. And he is still checking with her for advice? This is astounding! She must have run out of advice last week since he only stayed for an hour. And dozed off for 35 minutes of that. What a tool!

  121. Even in the tank for Obama CNN said that Obama has to step up his game. Evidently McCain kicked ass.

    Mountain Sage

  122. Hey all!

    So you mean this flyer was a tease?

  123. Are you certain it was dandruff and not confetti? Someone must have thrown him a parade prior to his appearance.

  124. I don’t think it’s dandruff, I think it’s the gray sprinkles he puts in his hair.

  125. Wait a minute, when the light just hit what I thought was dandruff it shined. I think it must be glitter! Obviously he was trying on his crown prior to going on stage.

  126. it just seems like a really contrived answer. his wife – yes, I think a spouse belongs on the list. we already know what he thought of his grandmother, so that sounds like damage control. I only question Ted Kennedy because….I dunno, it just sounds funny, two family members and then Ted. maybe Ted’s his mentor. it just struck me funny. like…..my heroes are my mom, my dad……..and Madonna.

  127. madamab: This should go over well with the Jewish and Muslim voters! Is this guy for real?

  128. kiki – I wanna know why Jeebus wasn’t first on the list. Wouldn’t that have been a good answer?

  129. Regarding the $250k salary not being “easy street”

    Mister says, “Holy Crap! Who does this guy hang around with?”

  130. This stunt is right out of the Bush playbook. He answered that Jesus Christ was his hero and role model and the Religious Right went nuts! All he need now admit that Tim Lahaye is his favorite writer.

  131. mad – I just want to know what that guy on the lower left is doing with his hands. Does everyone have to go down on BO?

  132. He said he never makes an important decision without consulting his grandmother. I guess the biggest one he’s had was what type of syrup to put on his waffles while on vacation in Hawaii…cuz that’s the only time he’s gone to see her since he started running for president.

  133. katiebird: Well we know one was a convicted felon. Hope that helps.

  134. Ask Ed.

  135. PJ – I wish this were a joke. He put it out to counter the “smear” that he is a Muslim. He used it in several Southern states to NOT pander to the evangelical vote.

    Looks like Obama is just as committed to Christianity as he is to all of his other “values;” he’ll use it until it no longer works for him, then he’ll throw it under the bus.

  136. gary: I am scaring the neighbors with my guffawing over here! Stop!

  137. madamab- you got that right!!!!!!!

  138. Carol – I think they are supposed to be praying, but the guy, instead of being inspired, looks like he is making a particularly difficult bowel movement.


  139. Dr. Beldsoe was superb and just strengthens what I’ve been thinking/saying for awhile; namely, that we need a prominently exhibited completely genuine discussion by theological scholars on the credentials and religious (Christian) legitimacy of Black Liberation Theology. What wil emerge are the sorts of things she was saying, along with the fact that it is built on DENOUNCING non-liberationist theology, and often antipathy toward whites. A theme could be: does BLT convert religion into politics, and is that a good thing? Pro and con?

    I would love to see one of those sequels done, say in the Washington Post, daily, on BLT. People would be horrified at its central tenets.

    here’s a question I’d love to ask B.O.: Would you endorse employing Rev. Morse or Wright to carry out one of your faith-based initiatives? Why or Why not?

    If he says yes—I think people will RUN!

    If he says No, I want to know why. If it’s because he thinks they are spreading hate, then he needs to explain why he is so comfortable with hate-mongers!

  140. madamab: You just don’t going around with posters like this plastered all over the place. It is not right. I am unable to ever give an accurate name to this pandering. Unwholesome maybe?

  141. hatshepsut1988: Excellent question.

  142. Here comes McCain.

    McCain just told him “Thanks for the laughs!”

  143. If he gets the nomination, those debates are going to be his death knell. Hillary would have wiped the floor with McCain and be still standing. This is perhaps the one bright spot we have looking forward. The debates or, how the Dem Party lost yet another one! And McCain can get pretty feisty up there on stage. He outdid his opponents during the primaries. Made mincemeat of Romney.

  144. Turn on Fox

  145. He said Ted Kennedy.

  146. it makes me a little uncomfortable that there would be this type of forum. there are real life issues involving war and peace and the economy, etc. I actually don’t care about a candidate’s religion or spirituality, and I don’t think spounting mindless religious drivel speaks to character. actions speak to character.

  147. hat: I was so moved by Dr. Bledsoe tonight. We so need voices like hers to heal the divide. I can’t tell you how psyched I am to meet her in person.
    It occurred to me earlier that the internet may be the perfect medium for the female mind. I can’t explain it in words, but if you are female, you know exactly what I mean.

  148. PJ – If we had a Fourth Estate, you would have known about these flyers a long time ago. They have been around for months and months.

    When Wright came to light, I thought it was a massive dose of karma because he had insisted on campaigning on his religion.

  149. BO said he would not have appointed Clarence Thomas based on him being a novice with no experience. You just keep T – ing it up BO for McCain.

  150. McCain is incredible.

  151. lol, no tv here but there’s an actual headline on yahoo news that says McCain and Obama “share a hug”

    awwwww. maybe they’ll pick each other as vp and bff

  152. BO is one to talk with all that experience he has and all!!!!

  153. kiki – you have expressed it perfectly. Why the hell can’t we talk about the economy? But no, because there are millions of tasty evangelicals just waiting to mobilize in November, our candidates have to pretend they give a sh*t about their narrow-minded, bigoted, anti-woman view of Christianity.

    Hillary would have used this forum to reach out to fundies on the environment and other issues where they agree with her. She would not have pretended to agree with them. It’s called having principles. Too bad Oba-Moi would understand a vague concept like that.

  154. Madamab — and he continued to use the fliers in Kentucky — after the Wright thing became public. VERY effective.

  155. “my marriage is so strong I can afford those rights to others even if I have a different view.”

    well isn’t that big of him…what an arrogant asshole

    this is after he says he believes a marriage is a sacred bond between a man and woman only…

    wake up lgbt community, this man is a fraud and bad news for our community.

  156. I missed the Ted comment Kiki — sorry.

  157. Oh, man, I’m not watching the forum but if what I am reading is correct, we are so totally fucked.

  158. BO has no chance against McCain.

    As I said, BO, MO and the kids will be driving back to Illinois in their SUV if the super’s don’t figure it out!

    God Bless America! Please save us God from this travesty!


  159. Riverdaughter, I saw the bit where he told us Americans were too selfish. I think I actually jumped out of my skin for a second. How dare he blanket all of us with that accusation?

  160. Oh, you people! Be fair! What, did you expect him to come right out & say for the greatest influence: Rev Jeremiah Wright!
    He was trying to think: my BFF Rezko. No, can’t say that!
    Um, Father Fleghler [sic]. No, can’t say that.
    And so on.

    Ted Kennedy was the only safe person he could think of.

  161. RD – America and the World is fucked if the Super’s don’t stop this travesty.


  162. Riverdaughter- My husband had the same thoughts when he watched it earlier, although his anger was rightly directed at the DNC.

  163. McCain is so Likable. BO has to buy his friends.

    I just gave McCain a standing ovation.

  164. Correction, it was MO, grandmother and Sam Nunn — Sam Nunn of all ambulatory humans currently on the planet. Me smell a VP stink bomb.

  165. Gary – I have never understood why any straight person would be affected if LGBT people achieve equal rights with straight people.

    It just takes a smidgen of empathy and a role reversal exercise to realize: Hey! Wouldn’t I be p*ssed if the government said I couldn’t marry my boyfriend?


  166. umm, McCain’s likeable, but for the most part his opinions on everything suck. that’s just my opinion…..

  167. Prolix – Sam Nunn before Jeebus?

    Oh Lord, give me strength.

  168. Pat – I think it was actually a small diamond that must have dislodged from his Crown.

  169. McCain is likable and he appears to have some principles, not that I agree with him on many issues but he does have principles.

  170. I’m rooting for Hillary.

  171. I would like to state, for the record, that I miss Hillary.

    K, thx. Off my soapbox.

  172. “my marriage is so strong I can afford those rights to others even if I have a different view.”

    what does the strength of his marriage or anyone else’s have to do with equal rights? we can only have rights as long as his needs are met? wth?

  173. kiki – if my choice is McCain’s opinion or BO opinion, McCain is gonna have to be my choice. That is what happens when it is the lesser of 2 evils.

  174. KB – Me too! McCain is experienced and savvy, but I disagree with him on pretty much every substantial issue. I cannot vote for him.

    Hillary, or the top of my ticket is blank.

  175. Madamab, he got BJeebus in on the man/woman marriage question. He said that marriage could only be between a man and a woman and it is holy because God is in the mix or some wierd three-way kinda thing.

  176. Can we have Hillary back now???? After this the SD must begin to see the light.

  177. Prolix: Sam Nunn? Sam Nunn! Oh, holy sh**ting jeebus! It would have been worth putting up with crap just to hear that!

    Really, I think I’m speechless, Kid, are you lurking? Quick, your mother really can’t think of anything to say to Sam Nunn! I would have said Kermit the Frog before I said Nunn!

  178. This evening Barack was left in the dust by John McCain at the Saddleback forum. It was a clear indicator that BO cannot win. I couldn’t help but be angry that this forum was held without any mention of Hillary and was held with the “presumptive” nominees but that fact was never mentioned.

    Just wait until Denver.

  179. Prolix,

    I so wish I could ask all these fake-@ss holy rollers exactly where in the Bible it says that marriage is ONLY between a man and a woman.


  180. What was the Number One song the day you were born?

  181. He didn’t say Sam Nunn. He said MO, “typical white granny” and Ted Kennedy.

  182. Could there have been 2 similar questions?

  183. kiki: “…. my marriage is so strong I can afford those rights to others even if I have a different view.”

    This is just a corollary to the ‘same-sex marriage threatens traditional marriage’ argument. What if his marriage isn’t strong? Does that mean he couldn’t afford those rights to gays?

  184. If his grandmother is so important how come we never see her?

  185. katieb: “I saw the bit where he told us Americans were too selfish”

    Especially when he is the most selfish prick EVEH!

  186. Madamab,

    I agree. It’s like Prego, to them it’s in there. Marriage is always a cultural creation and we, as a society, are just wallowing around with pandering idiocy on the subject. Thank goodness there are courts who can see through it.

  187. I think he was thinkin’ that Sam Nunn was from the *other* Georgia and he was trying to be timely and all about foreign affairs and stuff

  188. KB – “Ode to Billie Joe” by Bobby Gentry.

  189. kiki- good one. Did he also inquire about the status of Atlanta?

  190. Not Sam Nunn? Oh, Prolix, you kidder you; I should have known. My apologies.

    But, let’s face it, when there is so much true stupid coming from B0 and the Obots, satire does lose his sting.

  191. (waving) Hi Joanie,

    I just don’t think that calling voters selfish – even by implication – is a winning strategy.

  192. PofEd, I wasn’t kidding — in fact it was on the Fox crawl a few minutes ago.

  193. Madamab — I remember that song. It was a hit not long after we moved to Kansas.

    Mine is: “Wanted” by Perry Como

  194. I’m glad you guys watched the forum for me. I need to ingest regurgitated food. I’m too delicate.

    btw, I am PCO for my precinct (from the lifetime before I mentally left the party), and had to walk and distribute literature for the upcoming primaries. Darn it! They must have misplaced all the BO literature! I only saw two BO flyers, and felt it was my duty to line my birdcage with them since I didn’t have enough for everyone.

  195. katie, mine is “bridge over troubled waters” by Simon and Garfunkel

  196. good lord – “how much is that doggie in the window” by Patti Page

  197. KB – It’s just par for the course. If you don’t want to vote for him, there’s something wrong with YOU. It is not his responsibility to earn your vote. He deserves it just for being The One.

    If you cannot grok his greatness, you are selfish, and probably have a Bible and gun somewhere that you refuse to let him pry out of your cold, dead, xenophobic, r@cist hands.

  198. To say that American’s are selfish in the same hour that you declare “I am not inferring that everyone making over $250k a year is living on easy street……………….” is hysterical.

    I hope they have the video’s up by morning.

    By the way, I was looking all day for NBC to break into the Olympic programming with KO railing against Dean for his “whitey” comment yesterday. Who knew, I thought it was MO that was going to provide us with that.

  199. I don’t buy into the conspiracy theories, but I’m beginning to wonder if there isn’t something to the charges of fraudulent campaign donations to Obama. I saw where 2-3 donations listed Rafah, Georgia as an address, but they were really from the Hamas Camp in Gaza.

    If true, maybe this is why Obama got so mixed up about the Russia/Georgia conflict.

  200. guys, I’m going to do some donatin!! I just got a big, bad ass, 100% high-falutin grown-up J-O-B!!!

  201. mawm’s was “heard it through the grapevine”

  202. lol Joanie!

  203. It must have been 2 different questions.

  204. Congratulations joaniebone!

  205. Three cheers for Joaniebone! Congratulations!

  206. I would not be surprised if Sam Nunn is the VP choice if BO gets the nom

  207. kiki, Your song was the number one hit on my birthday — the year BEFORE I was born!

  208. Yay, Joaniebone! Congratulations!!

    Did he really say “I am not inferring that everyone who makes $250,000 is on Easy Street…?” Fergodssake, he’s not inferring ANYTHING. He’s IMPLYING it!

    Sorry, one of my pet peeves is mixing up imply and infer. As a Harvard-educated, extraordinary communicator, you’d think he would know that.

    Will slink bank into my anal-retentive cave now. 🙂

  209. My song was “Michael” by the Highwaymen

    I thought I knew every song–has ANYONE heard this, and can you hum a few bars?

  210. yay Joanie, hope it’s a good one

  211. When all is said & done, I suspect this forum was supposed to be Obama’s chance to 1] get used to the Q&A interview with another candidate to help him prepare for the debates 2] give him a soft cushion to make him more likable to voters and 3] give him a chance to get the Wright/religion monkey off his back.

    Sounds as though he failed on all counts.

  212. (Cheering) Joanie, I’m so happy for you. But, I didn’t spill the beans Retta & Oz were at Mom and Dad’s tonight and I didn’t say a word….

  213. Go Joanie! Congrats!

  214. Joanie, You know it:

    Michael rowed the boat ashore, alleluya
    Michael rowed the boat ashore, alleluya

    Sister helped to trim the sails, alleluya
    Sister helped to trim the sails, alleluya

    Michael rowed the boat ashore, alleluya
    Michael rowed the boat ashore, alleluya

  215. You guys, this interview was crazy. I went in for a basic administrative job in an industry I have wanted to break into–and was bumped up to the top (w/two admin assistants)!! It’s right out of a movie! Good thing he didn’t love me for my typing.

  216. Joanie, Michael rowed the boat ashore…alleluia…..

  217. joaniebone: it’s an old folk song, kids sing it at camp a lot.

    Michael, row the boat ashore, Hallejulah

    River Jordan is chilly & cold, Hallejuah

    It was a huge hit.

  218. Serious Cathy katie? I was BORN a beatnik??

  219. F + would be the grade he will be receiving on his report card. Don’t worry though because I have it on good authority that he knows people who will be able to alter the document prior to “typical white granny” seeing it.

  220. Nope! A Folksinger…

  221. Chills the body but it warms the soul

  222. Joaniebone, you are Melanie Griffith in Working Girl.

  223. katie: Dating myself bigtime. Buttons and Bows by Doris Day

  224. KB, I slipped and revealed your super secret nickname. 😦

    I’m just giddy

  225. Woohoo, Joaniebone! That is so fantastic!

    I actually don’t know my birth song either. (blush)

  226. Prolix, never had the rack, but other than that!

  227. chatblu, I just listened to it — I like it.

  228. Madamab: thank you, thank you for the imply/infer correction. I try not to pounce on this stuff, but it drives me crazy when it is from someone who should know better.

    My 85 year old father with a grade-school education, it doesn’t faze me a bit, but they’re always touting Obama’s Ivy League education……

  229. (snort) Don’t let her fool you. I’ve got pictures that prove she’s wrong.

  230. Sis, do they have links to hearing the song too?

  231. Obama=

    “tossin and a turnin” by Bobby Lewis

    (are they sure it wasn’t flippin and floppin?


    “Near You” by Francis Craig

  232. KB, you wouldn’t! It was just a job I had to put myself through college!

  233. Checked for my song, but it said they didn’t have recorded music back then. Said to try the drums-in-the-wild section. I’m old as dirt.

  234. Joanie, should have said you are Melanie only hotter…

  235. PofEd, LOL

  236. Prolix, that goes without saying.

  237. (batting my eyes) I wouldn’t?

    Some of the song titles have links that let you download to iTunes. Which I don’t have. So I got yelled at for trying.

    But, if you cut and past the author and title you can find some of them through google.

  238. 148k ophans in the world – Where the hell have Angie and Brad been?

  239. Parentofed, I thought it went back to the 1700s?

  240. parentofed – Hee! A fellow grammar policeperson. Welcome, sister! 🙂

    Joaniebone – you can listen to a little bit of it. I just realized I know “Ode to Billie Joe” but didn’t know what it was called. 😉

  241. madama, you don’t know “Ode to Billie Jo”? interesting song – they actually made a movie based on it

  242. madamab, I LOVE Ode to Billy Jo! Kinda creepy but good.

    I just heard Harper Valley PTA today.

  243. never mind 🙂

  244. My uncle gave me the single of Harper Valley PTA for some reason one year. I never knew why.

  245. Heh. I wish I had a happier birth song, but the fact that it is long, rambling and depressing actually fits me pretty well! LOL

  246. “Ode to Billy Joe” moral — diving from the Tallahatchie Bridge can be hazardous.

  247. kiki, wasn’t the movie years later? Like a Lifetime Movie or something?

  248. Madamab: librarian here; you, too?

    Katiebird: yeah, back to the 1700s, my point exactly.

  249. LOL, Madamab — NOT True!

  250. Fuzzy, I just sent you an email to the address you use to post comments.

  251. parentofed, I think I’ve been reading too many vampire novels.

  252. Michael, he was there…I didn’t even know who he was, and had never heard from him. I don’t know his history, but I wasn’t too thrilled with him. I talked to him only once. the first morning i was there, he told me he is a republican so I told him we probably wouldn’t have much in common. He definitely wasn’t very vocal, and he certainly didn’t do any presentation. I actually think the only reason he came was to hawk books (which I doubt many people bought)

    Christina Cedeno is a total hypocrite. She calls someone a “jappy narcissist” and then has the nerve to call those of us at the conference anti-semitic. she’s a liar and in my opinion a racist tool. In fact there were many jewish people at the conference, who are in fact leaders of this movement.

    PUMA is a grassroots movement. We had an open enrollment to the conference and so these people are going to try to worm their way in and make a few bucks.. If that is the best they can do (and believe me, it is) Christina is a few eggs short of a dozen, and that tommy is a total hack and an obama henchman.

    The funnies thing I read over there is I think that dumbass polo said—If you’re being shot at, you must be doing something right.

    ????? I think if they’re shooting you, you probably did something really wrong 🙂

  253. well I am done at yes to Obacracy for a while christina never answered my invatation to coffee…sad she missed out on the enemy…Oh and PUMA sources high high up (he must mean RD and Diane and EJ)

    thought I would let you know what that hack is up to Know your enemies and defeat your enemies


  254. oh, and fuzzy, stay away from that place. That christina girl is really batshit crazy….she is very angry too. It worries me that she’s in the same area as you.

  255. yeah, I think the movie was many years later. lol – that’s one of those songs with “unanswered questions” and evidently Bobbie Gentry ain’t sayin’ what it all means

  256. KB – 😉

    PofE – Not a librarian, a Virgo! I did work at one during my grad school days. Work-study and all that jazz. I also had a minor in English.

  257. Finished writing last chapter of new book, finally!—dragged out last page for one full week, ….mildly celebrating.
    I never liked that silly song, Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, but for some reason, as I noted earlier today, goofy lyrics sung to its tune, but for Superdelegates, D. Brazille, etc. came into my head last night….so just in case anyone wants a laugh, let me know, but it requires parsing the syllables just right, …offer may not last once I return to normal…

  258. I want to hear the song, hatsh! Congrats on the book. Wow!

  259. Madamab, got a birthday comin up, do you?

  260. Congratulations!

  261. wow hat, wonderful about the book!

    yeah, post the lyrics!

  262. My uncle gave me the single of Harper Valley PTA for some reason one year. I never knew why.

    EEEW! which one?

  263. hatshep — congratulations! That must be a wonderful feeling.

  264. An aside.

    I’m listening to the Faith Forum on You Tube. Obama’s answer for “most gut-wrenching decision he has made” is his decision to oppose the war in Iraq. His answer, which goes on for about minute, implies that he was in the Senate for that vote. It’s a deliberate masquerade and it works. More than half of that audience will leave thinking that Obama was in the Senate in 2002 and voted against the Iraq war.

    I can’t tell you how many people I have met in their 20’s or 30’s that think that.

    Obama gave a speech to anti-war protesters in Chicago a week before the vote and a couple months before he made his bid for the Senate.

    I really believe that, given his presidential ambitions, if Obama had been in the Senate in 2002 he would have voted for the Iraq war, alongside Hillary.

  265. Joanie, Ah, well that would have to wait for another conversation.

  266. “I have never understood why any straight person would be affected if LGBT people achieve equal rights with straight people.”

    Exactly Madamb! I find this whole stand against gay marriage totally incomprehensible. If a straight person can marry or live with who s/he wants, just how on earth does it affect him/ her if someone else chooses to sign a piece of paper or exchange vows and live with someone of his/her own sex? Forget empathy, forget respect for human rights. This is something that does not or should not affect straight couples at all.

  267. Used to make out in the boyfriend’s car to Ode to Billie Joe. It was always on at night. Was that song 1968? Summer.

    The Kid is always surprised that I remember dates of many old pop songs, probably because I can seldom remember what I had for lunch. That’s the secret: you connect them to specific memories, especially passion in the back seat. Yeah, you tend to remember some of that stuff.

  268. SarahF — That’s a good description of his performance. He’s a con man. I saw that too. And the interviewer just let that answer stand.

  269. Hat, congratulations on the book, that is fantastic!

  270. Joaniebone – Yup, just a couple of weeks from now. I will be 41 years old – still six years younger than our Youngest Hippest Candidate Ever.


    SarahF – I have long believed that the entire reason Bill was smeared as a r*cist by Oba-Moi and his Rovian cohorts, was because Bill started pointing out this incredible hypocrisy on BHO’s part. Amazingly, before Bill said the anti-war thing was a fairy tale, I didn’t know that Obama had said he agreed with Pres Bush on the war and that he probably would have voted for the AUMF.

    Such is the incredible corruption of the corporate media, that they went along with the smears and completely ignored the message. They so want McCain to win this year – they can taste the tax breaks.

  271. well, you know, gay marriage could affect the “sanctity” of marriage. if gay people were to marry, straight people might start getting divorced or something, and we couldn’t have that! ohhh, the sanctity……

  272. SarahF, had the same exact reaction. Wrote about it upstream — he might have well as out and out lied.

  273. SarahF: Yes, that point was made at NQ that he Did Not Vote on the Iraq War. It’s disgraceful that he has gotten away with this sham for so long.

    If he had been in the US Senate, and forced to vote, he would have voted for it, but would later claim he hit the wrong button.

  274. Gary I did i told the truth and I also tried to reason with them they are total CDS and I have diagnosed them with a new one M-POCD(McCain-PUMA Obsessive compulsive Disorder) it is the irrational compulsion to like and declare every PUMA a republican or McCain supporter.

    If the Obama folks at Yes to Obamacracy were smart they would accept we will not support them at the top of the ticket and try to salvage the party’s down ticket dems.

    They kept Picking on me fro calling it the Democrat Party instead of the Democratic party said It “proved I was a republican” , as a democrat I was offended they said it was a bush term that rove invented and is an insult…

    I have an Obit from December 27th 1941 where my uncle the Honorable Judge Daniel Maguire was called the former chairman of the democrat party that is why I have used that term if it was good enough for my uncle Dan it was good for me. I never met my uncle dan but he was a family hero a sort of ledgend and his wife and he met the Roosevelts. He was a federal Judge in Dubuque who never had court desision over turned on appeal.

    I apologized for the offence but they never let it go…I did offer to take christina out for fair trade organic coffee and vegan chocolat chip cookies.

    Isn’t calling Obama the nominee a perjorative statement when speaking to someone who disagrees when the fact is he cannot be the nominee until the convention?

    Its all about nitpicking


  275. (fading)

    Time for bed! I’ll see you all tomorrow.


  276. SarahF, BO leaves that impression, but he was still running for State Senate. His top two advisors he picked were Michelle! and his granny!!! OMG. He is more shallow than we thought.

  277. I hate subterfuge. He is full of it. When Bill Clinton called him out on his absence on the Iraq vote (the “Fairy Tale” comment) Obama hurled the race card. That’s was my turning point on Obama.

  278. He actually announced his campaign for the US Senate in Jan 2003, a couple months after he discovered his niche with anti-war protesters.

  279. Gordon in Kansas: Well, the granny influence was surely meant to rope us wimmin back in the party! Cuz, you know, we’re so dumb we just love little symbols like that, provin that he really do care about us. Blech!

  280. I’ve heard so many AA really railing against BO lately. Darrah interviewed a great woman on her show tonight, worth a listen. Her view was that BO has set race relations back years in this country. She also told us white supporters of Hillary not to be discouraged if we are called racist. She is being called Uncle Tom. We have to stand firm.

  281. I’m slow at this commenting thing!

  282. feeling very old after seeing my song date. Need sleep, night all, have a good evening & see you later.

  283. Good Night to everyone, and thank you for your best wishes!

    Fuzzy, especially–sweet dreams. I am sorry to see you upset. Don’t let them bother you.

  284. S-my republican brother said the same thing to my chatolic mother at carabas restraunt last time she came down….Mom loves me and is on the path to understanding my life (its not a lifestyle) but dinner was quiet! Then he said Hillary was wrong on universal health care he took the Kennedy position to work it has to be single payer…

    See not all rebublicans are anti gay the real ones are not-its only the religious ones.


  285. kiki – I used to listen to Mike Malloy on Air America. He went too far sometimes, but he was entertaining.

    Anyway, he had this fabulous actress on his show, who did a long routine on how gay marriage affected her and her husband. It was so hilarious – they ended up divorcing, she cut her hair, dressed in plaid and hooked up with her neighbor’s wife; her husband went leatther; their daughter turned to drugs and prostitution; all because of gay marriage!!!1111!!!

    I think the fundies really think this will happen. Meanwhile, the divorce rate in states WiTHOUT gay marriage is HIGHER than the rate in states WITH gay marriage. So, it looks like gay marriage is GOOD for you! Nanny nanny poo poo!

  286. for heavens sakes, Obama has run on his anti- Iraq war stance, and the absolutely moral clarity and superior judgement that brought him to it………and now it was his most wrenching decision? I thought that was the one thing he was absolutely sure about. I guess that was yesterday

  287. Good night everyone – sweet dreams and see you soon…Hillary 08, people, let’s make it happen!

  288. Still pulling for Hillary, but after hearing McCain tonight I know I have a backup plan. NOBAMA.

  289. Can’t wait to see what Riverdaughter says tomorrow about the Saddleback forum. Goodnight all.

  290. The best way to reduce abortion among couples is to allow gay marriage.

    That’s the best joke I’ve heard in a long time.

  291. fuzzy, my parents are republicans, but they’ve always been for fulll equal rights for gays and lesbians. i guess they’re more the fiscal republican types,

  292. —Usage note Infer has been used to mean “to hint or suggest” since the 16th century by speakers and writers of unquestioned ability and eminence: The next speaker criticized the proposal, inferring that it was made solely to embarrass the government. Despite its long history, many 20th-century usage guides condemn the use, maintaining that the proper word for the intended sense is imply and that to use infer is to lose a valuable distinction between the two words.
    Although the claimed distinction has probably existed chiefly in the pronouncements of usage guides, and although the use of infer to mean “to suggest” usually produces no ambiguity, the distinction too has a long history and is widely observed by many speakers and writers.

    BO said “suggesting” not inferring.

    That is the term I used in the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th century. So shoot me.

  293. actually I take that back, I think my mom is still a registered dem, but usually votes repub

  294. lol madama! and I didn’t know that about divorce rates. I actually don’t see how they’d be affected one way or the other, but those are interesting stats.

  295. Tonight I will pray christina does not visit my house I’ll keep a bat by my bed-Polo actually put up two maps to my house but they were both wrong-he then said that because I checked out his link and told him he was wrong I am guilty of making a contribution from a fictitious address and I believe he is going to report me to the FEC…oh and he said I gave $ 866.00 dollars to Hillary clinton since february so that makes me a republican? WTF.

    They are also implying the military vote is behind Obama over Mccain and they call us Moonbats?

    I hope they do not riot when they find out Obama isn’t going to the whitehouse….he will either fall in Denver or in November.


  296. people don’t think of the littlel things either. like when I’m at work and I have to mention mawm it is awkward and I resent that.. I want to say “husband” because he’s not just my boyfriend and partner feels like a cage they’ve put me in. So in a practical sense it is always a reminder that you are being discriminated against.

  297. SUPERDELEGATES -The Time of Truth it Soon Approaches!
    Sung to the tune of Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

    SUPERDELEGATES -the time of truth it soon approaches!
    SUPERDELEGATES -to bar a true vote is atrocious!
    SUPERS need to vote their mind and never mind Pelosi’s!
    SUPERDELEGATES -the time of truth it soon approaches!


    There is a su-per-del-e-gate*, her name is D. Brazille,
    “If Supers pick the candidate, I’ll quit, I swear I will!!!”
    Yet fearing that Obama might just lose out to our Hill
    She broke the Rulz of Mama, that dishonest D. Brazille!!!

    SUPERDELEGATES -the time of truth it soon approaches!
    SUPERDELEGATES –without a true vote it’s atrocious!
    SUPERS need to do what’s right and fight off O’s hypnosis!
    Obots might be vicious, but those PUMAs are ferocious!

  298. Prolix, on August 17th, 2008 at 12:18 am Said:

    Madamab, he got BJeebus in on the man/woman marriage question. He said that marriage could only be between a man and a woman and it is holy because God is in the mix or some wierd three-way kinda thing.

    So, is he saying that “God” doesn’t approve of gay love? He doesn’t KNOW what he really thinks about it, he is just pandering, as always. And his comment about his marriage only reinforces the ridiculous idea that gay marriage will somehow threaten heterosexual marriages. He’s really not that bright. Unoriginal thought. Hillary KNOWS what she thinks and why.

  299. gary, just don’t say “mawm” or they’ll think you’re talking about your mom………and that would be weird!

    you should just say husband. is NC a common law state? even if it’s not, who cares? you can call each other whatever you want.

  300. omg…that’s really good hatshep…

  301. hat – that is hysterical!

  302. kiki, I know ever since april and may when we started commenting here I’ve told people its really weird to call him “mawm” he he…..

  303. oops, I hope I didn’t sound insensitive. what I meant is the piece of paper from the government is the least important part of a marriage, and shouldn’t be what makes you married or unmarried, or what determines how you see your relationship.

  304. hat, that’s excellent!

  305. kiki, I don’t think a lot of straight people understand how important the little stuff is though. that piece of paper validates your realtionship. If I say husband, they all know that is NOT actually who he is. and this is not directed at you in any way, I’m just ranting. Actually I appreciate the thoughtful words…

  306. Nite – Nite. I can’t believe it is soooooooo late!

  307. NoQuarter has a link to an article that says that “decision” was “voting against the war”. Only one problem, he wasn’t in the Senate! He didn’t vote on the war. So what decision? Having the opinion that the war was a bad idea? Uh, well, I had that opinion too, I don’t consider that a gut wrenching decision. Idiot.

  308. Any Rufus Wainwright fans? I saw him in concert tonight, and he is an amazing talent. His voice is even more powerful and resonant in person. I was really enjoying the concert and then, he sang an angry song about America. After it, he said things are “starting to get better since I wrote that song…I’m going to the Democratic Convention.” [crowd cheers] “Yea! Obama–bring it on home!” My friend in the next seat put her hand on my knee to steady me. It got worse. He then said: “He’s been in Hawaii…that body! O-body! (pause) But that’s not the only reason I like him!”

    It took me many more very very good songs to get that repulsive image of BO as “sexy” out of my mind.

    Again, I thought: “I just do-not-get-it. WHAT in God’s name are these people seeing?” He did mention the war, so that’s the ultimate propaganda whistle for BO supporters. (Though that’s a “fairy tale” too, as we know).

    I had to get this in, but it’s friggin 1:37 and I need to go to bed. ‘nite all.

  309. gary – you and mawm validate your relationship.

  310. I know, I’m off to bed too. THank all of you soooo much who have donated to our cross-country soiree…I’m hoping we can join the radio show each night as we make our way out there. I have so much to do this week to get ready I think I may be a zombie by next weekend. Put I will try to stay in touch. Thanks again everyone…you all are the best.

  311. Hat, that is hilarious…

  312. Gary, I’m straight and I totally understand. Partner? Makes it sound like a business transaction. Once you marry, he’s your husband. It’s just like when people say “civil unions” are just as good. I say no. I mean, what would I say about my husband and I? We’ve been unioned for 9 years? Nah. We’ve been married.

  313. fif – thanks for giving me nightmares!

  314. actually, hasn’t he voted to fund the war? not so gut wrenching, I guess……..

    yeah Gary, I know. plus there are the tax advantages.

    I still think it’s wrong for the government to even be involved in marriages or any other personal relationships between and among consenting adults.

    but I understand that’s easy for me to say when I have the option.

  315. LOL. Sorry Carol! It was a very disturbing image, and I needed to vent to fellow Bot-phobes.

  316. night y’all

  317. “I still think it’s wrong for the government to even be involved in marriages or any other personal relationships between and among consenting adults.”

    What about courts? I mean, no offense, but this makes no sense. There is marriage law, and it’s extremely necessary and important. Civil unions are wreaking havoc on the system, because they don’t usually come with the same protections/rights as marriages. Indeed, all those protections/rights have to keep being written because marriage law has been on the books forever, and you can not simply apply it to unions. Best to just let everyone who wants to marry, marry. No reason for separate but equal. But the government, particularly through the justice system, definitely has a role to play.

  318. good night all happy thoughts if christina doesnt get me tonight then hey I guess I will live…

    will work on good convention traveling prayer tommorrow


  319. I don’t believe in same sex marriage either. I also don’t believe in discriminating against gays and lesbians.

    Sexual preference is deeply personal. Shouldn’t be part of a politcal forum. Just like religion. And whetehr or not one believes in abortion or has had an abortion.

    Nobody’s business.

  320. I don’t believe in “same-sex marriage”, I fully believe in marriage equality. And what is this nonsense? Ok, it’s no ones business. But guess what, marriage is a legal contract, got it? So, again, the government plays a role. Live with it.

  321. tonight late meditation:

    It is so easy to demonize the unknown and the unseen
    sailors imagined dragons ant the edge of the world muslims and christians fought each other to the death in the name of the same God
    and millions of generally decent people in two countries different in politics and seperated by an ocean oppressed their brothers and sisters
    in one because the color of their skin
    in another because they worshiped the same God differently
    in one land without the imoderating justice of a constitution and an indepentent military and judiciary genocide occurred and millions perished in the gas and on the battle field
    in the other cooler heads prevailed and the courts moved legislature to slow at times to make the right choice and today in that land millions breath free
    it did not occur without violence old ways die hard but it came and
    there people were judged by the content of their character and no mor by the color of their skin and they called it the golden land-America

    creator father mother god/dess bless us all and keep us safe

  322. The McCain—Obama forum tonight has shown Obama for the phoney he is………..The media has alot of spining to do.

    His most gut wrenching decision. makes me sick.

    Your not on easy street if you make over 250k a year.

    Wife, grand mother and Ted Kennedy as ,,,,,etc,,,,etc,

  323. I didn’t watch the debate/forum or whatever either, but I’ve been reading a lot of blogs and comments. Might want to try to watch it online or something.

    From what I’ve read I think Riverdaughter has it right:
    we are so totally fucked.

    If there’s another one-on-one like this he might be more prepared. (???) Then again Obama’s talking heads and the MSM might say this forum was r@cist because McCain has more experience than Obama has! [S N A R K!] 😆

  324. Got some reactions on the fundies panderfest – from the Oborg as well:

  325. Good Morning. Two days away from the Confluence. Lots of posts.

    I-just-can’t-keep-up…..although I will try.

  326. $25 to PUMAPac

  327. I don’t to rants first thing in the morning … but let me just get this one regarding gay marriage off my chest. I have read the Bible pretty carefully … to be specific, I read each of the gospels in the new testament and some of the epistles. Nowhere it says that marriage is a holy union only between man and woman. Take the sentence “Marriage is a holy union between man and woman”. Now you could as well emphasize the part “holy” instead of “man and woman”. No one suggests that only holy unions between men and woman should be allowed …. so all “unholy” alliances including business partnerships should dissolved. Similarly, no one suggests that marriage is the only holy union between man and woman. The church might not but the state sure does recognize live in partners in many respects … at least many states do. So why leave all of those and go after “man and woman”?

    One of conservative friends once said “Gay marriage is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible”… implying that if God was ok with it, it would be in the Bible. But then I did not see any mention of cheesecake or bellybuttons in the Bible either. So I guess they are sinful too, right?

  328. S, I appreciate your “rant” 🙂 I might add, that if it is holy and from the Christian bible, than shouldn’t we ban anyone but christians from “marriage”? others like hindus, buddhists, etc can have civil unions. I think when you frame it like that you immediately see how ridiculous Obama’s statement was. Wake up LBGT people this guy is bad news. Just google leah daughtry (DNC convention CEO) she is a rabid homophobe. Obama is courting African American evangelicals like her who believe that civil rights for gays is an affront to black people.

  329. “if it is holy and from the Christian bible, than shouldn’t we ban anyone but christians from “marriage”? ”

    🙂 Snort! Now you’ve made my morning Gary. I would like to see someone try that one. 🙂

  330. Watching the Forum right now at Youtube…..so far I am in part 3 (still O).

    Lots of pandering. I have just heard the answer on marriage….not pleased.

    How do “those” who accuse JSNDs of not being “true progressives” can live with that answer?

    Oh well, back to youtube.

  331. To show how ill prepared and vapid this guy really is, to name his wife, his grandmother, and Sam Nunn as the three people he seeks for advice, I would not feel easy having him picking up the phone at 3am. Is it Grandma we should thank for his position on the Russia/Georgia invasion? Is Michelle steering policy on social issues? And Sam Nunn has been retired for years! I have no idea how McCain answered this question but I would wager it made more sense than this.

    Wake up supers!!!!!!!!!!!!! We cannot risk this candidate calling the shots. It appears pretty evident he has no clue to what he is talking about. Do not foist him on us. You will be sorry in the end.

  332. How do…can= How can…. jeez.

  333. Forum, part 4:

    “does evil exist?” WTF?

  334. Forum, part 5 (still O):

    Funding of faith based initiatives….”my speech”

    Education, performance pay:….whatever the union says AND reward excellence?…..pander.

    Define rich:…ummmh

  335. OK, I am now watching the “old dude”.

    Marriage, greater cause. Did he really say “my friend”? argh……

  336. Pat Johnson, on August 17th, 2008 at 9:18 am

    I think he mentioned Michelle and his grandmother because his internal polls show that he has a huge problem with women so that is who he was targetting and don’ t forget what he said about his grandmother being a racist.

  337. I am crazy mad that this ‘interview’ is being covered as news. I do not care what this minister thinks. He gets his vote and I get mine. When does the Pope and the Dali Lama get to interview the candidates?? Can we, please, have Hillary now?

  338. Must go now, will continue watching this faith thingey later.

  339. I briefly tuned in the Sunday Morning talk shows and the operative word appears to be “experience”. Some of the pundits are now gently steering toward this topic and Obama is coming up short. (Like this is news.) They are harping on his need to choose a VP who comes with that experience in order to shore up support. My question: are we voting for a Commander in Chief or his VP? Shouldn’t that “experience” also be the contributing factor in seeking votes at the top of the ticket? If not, then are we now being reduced to a Dem candidate who merely looks good on the “runway”?

    And again, Claire McCaskill is an idiot! She is another who makes little sense.

  340. “Obama’s answers were more complex,” CNN pundit.


    You are correct sir, Obama’s answers are truly more complexing.

  341. They are steering away from mentioning the $250K hard luck reference.

    Pat, what did your gas bill just go to?

    I bet McCain doesn’t let it slip off into the abyss.

  342. New post up by Riverdaughter!

  343. My gas bill increased by $110 monthly and I am budgeted with the gas company for monthly usage. However, Obama is going to confer with his grandmother in seeking a solution to my finances. I now have to find someone in a higher income level than 250.000 to marry since those people are having issues as well. The search goes on.

  344. Morning al I heard that this Evangelical Panderfest was a set up, that is because McCain’s answers were more polished and Mr McCain obviously had been prewarned of the questions, how could his answers be so good?

    Obama was set up it was not his fault blah blah it was an ambush!

    I do not need to watch the forum I have the best sources on it here.

    I cannot believe so many republican and racial conspiracies exsist against “the One”.

    I should do a thread on my day as a “troll” on an Obama sight I was enlighted on the strength of their conviction that if you do not support them you are “Paid Republican Operative.” Dissent is the hightest form of disloyalty is the O-way or the highway.

    I am afraid gary you are so right I found were the moonbats really live. The response to every I question I asked is but McShame is worse! Or you guys feelings were hurt so you are going to “ruin” it for the millions that did not vote for your girl.

    They are their own worst enemy when I offered an Idea that we should work together on down ticket races they claimed we are not supporting any down ticket dems…One (yes it was polo) asked me to provide one instance of a link from a down ticket dem that is supported by PUMA….

    Thank You Riverdaughter-I gave the the Linda Stender link here at the confluence and talked about Congresswoman Tubbs-Jones and Mr O’Rielly in MA.

    I bet they choked on their own phlem on that one. If all the sights aare as rabid angry as “yes to democracy”, Obama must be scared they claim we live in an echo chamber but that place doesn’t have carpet or drapes. the angry noise bounces everywhere.

    Another thing I noticed was that those posters were so busy being bitter that someone may take their cookie away that they do not have the fun we have. there is no book club, no analog to carol and pat mooning ofer their shared boyfriend Ed Rendell…and their is no OT things like Kathy Griffin old movies

    I would say that it is a sad place over a,t Yes to Democracy, the commenters there except for me were two dementional. They told me i wasnt a real gay man ad that everyone with the last Name Varvel supported Mr Obama so I obviously stole his Identity.

    The funniest thing they said was that I appeared on the internet in last quarter of 2007 so obviously I was a republican creation….the fact that I could be new to the blogg-a-sphere was inconcievable.

    Its a funny world and Christina does herself a disservice by allowing Polo to post their he uses “backtrack” to “out and intimidate” anyone who dissents on the sight he doesn’t do very good becuase he posted a map to my address wrong two times.
    I was quite funny see they kept calling me a repug but he also posted that i gave $ 866.00 to the Hillary Clinton for president fund.

    It was an experience “hanging with the rabid bots” I learned alot.



  346. I am running for US Representative in the 8th CD in Washington State as a no nonsense, conservative Democrat , also known as a Blue Dog Democrat.

    I recently became aware of PUMA’s and am delighted to join your cause. I have not taken any money from special interest groups nor the Democratic Party. I am committed to representing the people.

    About a month ago my numbers were at 15% and climbing. The polls are not very accurate and nobody knows what will happen. What I do know is that Dave Reichert, the Republican incumbant and Darcy Burner the Democratic Party’s choice were holding on to their $1M+ campaign funds for the general election. Now Darcy, has spent over $500K for the primary, which tells my campaign that voters are upset that the democratic party is not representing them.

    With the primary tomorrow, please get the word out to your friends and family members. This will be a close race. My views are listed on my website at http://www.jimvaughnforcongress.com and also on http://www.votesmart.org.

    If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

    Jim Vaughn
    253.241.9634 mobile

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