• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    William on A Few Musical Musings
    Beata on A Few Musical Musings
    William on A Few Musical Musings
    jmac on A Few Musical Musings
    William on A Few Musical Musings
    jmac on A Few Musical Musings
    William on A Few Musical Musings
    William on A Few Musical Musings
    Beata on A Few Musical Musings
    brucedesertrat on Imagining a Fifteen-Minute Cha…
    Beata on Imagining a Fifteen-Minute Cha…
    William on Imagining a Fifteen-Minute Cha…
    brucedesertrat on Imagining a Fifteen-Minute Cha…
    Beata on Imagining a Fifteen-Minute Cha…
    Propertius on Imagining a Fifteen-Minute Cha…
  • Categories

  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

    • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.
  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – January 29, 2023
      Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – January 29, 2023 by Tony Wikrent   Altercation: Goodbye and Thanks Eric Alterman, January 27, 2023 [The American Prospect] The key question I want to leave people with is this: Given the lack of guardrails, how far are these people willing to go? Trump is as popular as he was before January 6th and has been invited back on […]
  • Top Posts

We want a floor fight!

Run! Run for your lives! It's that crazy cat lady army!

I’m piggy-backing GaryChapelHill’s post below, and gadzooks – the crazy cat woman army got their way.  Hillary Clinton’s name will be on the roll call vote at the Democratic Convention.  Yet according to Liz Sidoti, AP writer, Hillary is expected to release her delegates despite having less than 100 delegates’ difference between her and Barack Obama:

WASHINGTON – Hillary Rodham Clinton’s name will be placed in nomination along with nominee-in-waiting Barack Obama at the Democratic National Convention, an emblematic move intended to unite the party after a divisive primary.

During the Denver gathering, Democrats will officially choose Obama to run against Republican John McCain this fall, but the state delegations will do a traditional roll call for their nominee’s vanquished primary opponent as well.


While Democrats say the mechanics of how that will play out still are being determined, Clinton — herself a superdelegate who gets a vote — is expected to release her delegates to Obama, announce her support for him and ask her backers to do the same.

So the “emblematic” move for the “vanquished” opponent is still expected to “release” her delegates, in a “move intended to unite the party?”   How is that Democracy in action?   Is that the type of “Unity” that the Neo-Republicanized DNC is pushing?  I say M_Fing ditto with whipped cream and a cherry on top to what Riverdaughter said here

F**k Unity! We’ll have unity after Howard Dean tells the Obama crew to back off the threats and intimidation of the delegates. We’ll have unity when Hillary’s name is put in nomination with no conditions. We’ll have unity when all of the superdelegates hear us say that Obama will lose if this convention is not fair, transparent and open. We’ll have unity when they take their responsibilities to their voters seriously. We’ll have unity when all the speeches and arguments are heard for *both* candidates and the roll call proceeds without twisted arms and ruined lives. Then, when we know who the real People’s Choice is, we’ll have Unity. Until then, we got nothing.

Why is the DNC asking the candidate who has the popular vote lead, who demographically and geographically has the widest voter spread and has the greatest chances of defeating John McCain in November asked to release her delegates after her speech?  Well guess what, DNC, I want my Floridian 1/2 vote counted, and until the Credentials meeting on Aug 24, it’s still a 1/2 vote.  I want my Florida delegates to argue and discuss and VOTE on the roll call and on the Nomination Ballot according to Democratic Convention traditions.  But if the Neo-Republicanized DNC wants to twist Democracy out of the hands of its voters by not allowing Senator Clinton to have her delegates vote for her on a NOMINATION BALLOT as well as the traditional roll call, there will be no Democrat in the White House this November.   Not because we’re bitter holdouts, but because you silenced our voices and our votes to push ahead an illegitimate candidate that you chose to scoot across the finish line by stealing 4 delegates and 600,000 “uncommitted” votes, thus breaking the DNC charter rule of Fair Reflection at the RBC meeting on May 31st, 2008.

How can the DNC demand Democracy in November for the General Election, yet won’t allow it in August among members of its own party?  A traditional phrase says that “respect must be given in order for it to be attained.”  I say the same goes for Democracy.  

Despite the DNC stealing and appropriating Clinton delegates just so the DNC can cushion their selected-and-not-elected presumptive candidate’s delegate pile, they still can’t risk the chance that pledged delegates and superdelegates having Obama buyer’s remorse.  And as a result of it, Democracy itself is collateral damage just because the Neo-Republicanized DNC suffers from Clenis envy and CDS.  

Harold Ickes, PLEASE live up to your word!  We want a floor fight!


¡Que viva los PUMAs!

(Long live PUMAs!)

265 Responses

  1. Love your quote from RD, and thanks for a great post.

    Just sent out my prowls for the day with a PS asking that they make this nomination real or we will vote McCain as a message to the party.

    Then I look at my inbox and there is an email from Donna Brazie, “Get Your Obama Party Started.” WTF?!

  2. I have a breathless email from Howard Dean that Obama is being swift-boated, Send money., WTH is an Obama party? Are hats and horns required?

  3. chatblu: The Obama Party came into existence the day after Hillary won the last of the primaries. He said loud and clear that this was now his party. Apparently he meant every word he said because since that day forward the Democratic Party that you and I and millions of others have come to love and respect went up in a puff of smoke. He owns it.

  4. Would not BO have to have been actually on a “swiftboat” before he could be “swiftboated”?


  5. I’m not buying the spin about releasing delegates until I hear Hillary say it herself (or a spokesperson I actually trust, hmm, I can only think of 2 right now, Chelsea and Bill).

    Everything I’ve seen is either coming from Obama or the fantasy-prone MSM — most are phrased as ‘she could’ or ‘she is expected to’. It’s all clearly desperate spin to create the expectation that she will, that even she believes Obama-the-flagging is really the-inevitable still.

  6. Yay SM! Wonderful picture and post. PUMA!!!

  7. Is it swiftboating if it’s true?

  8. This is the very tape I mentioned when calling into RD’s radio show two days ago.

    This must be a painful question for Hillary supporters, but how can she acquiesce in what Harold Ickes calls the “hijack”-ing of four delegates, let alone ask her backers to rally around the hijackers?

    Smacks of a political Stockholm Syndrome.

  9. Carol: Exactly. They lied about Kerry, a true war hero.
    They’re telling the truth about Obama, a true crook and all-around no-nothing a@@hole.

    Howard, it’s not Swiftboating if it’s the truth. It’s just politics.

  10. I know this is good news, but it ticks me off big time.

    CNN just announced this as ‘breaking news.’
    It shouldn’t be news—it is SOP that a major contender be nominated. I hate how they all make it sound like they are doing her and us a favor. To hell with them!

  11. Right On SM!!!!

  12. And I don’t care if she asks us to support him and releases her delegates. No way I can support him.

  13. The Brazie email is from the DCCC, and it is requesting that we have house parties. Here’s a snippet:

    Dear Eileen,

    Think about who you want to be with when it happens.

    Then get out your invitations to the family, friends, and neighbors you want to gather together for Barack Obama’s big acceptance speech.

    It’s just two weeks away. And you can use the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee’s MyConventionParty tools to host your personal celebration.

    Get your Obama party started. Go to dccc.org/myconventionparty right now.

    Everyone is talking about the 75,000 people who will be at Invesco Field in Denver for Barack’s speech. The final four supporters from the DCCC have been chosen to attend the convention as a guest of the DCCC: Mittie from Cleveland, Andrew from LaSelva Beach, CA, Scott from Seattle, and Stacy from Menlo Park, CA. Thousands of you entered but only four were chosen. But, it’s the millions of people coming together in homes all across America that will really make the night of August 28th so powerful.

    That’s because folks won’t just be getting together to watch. They’ll be coming together to win – donating $10, $15, $20 each to get the general election effort to support Democratic candidates off to a strong start.

    Be a host to history. Sign up now at dccc.org/myconventionparty

    14 days – that’s how much time we have before Barack Obama steps to the podium and makes history.

    68 days – That’s all the time we’ll have to win these elections once Barack Obama becomes our official standard bearer.

    Who do I want to be with?! Fu**ing gall!

  14. JohninCA: I’m so jealous of you. I want to be disdained by the MSM, too. Aren’t their favorability ratings somewhere between Cheney and Pelosi?

  15. JohninCA – She did not acquiesce. What was her option? She is a Democrat and the Party decided to take those delegates away from her. If she doesn’t follow Party rules, she is kicked out of the Party.

    While that may happen in the future, the time to desert the Party is not now. She could still be the nominee.

  16. meileen, on August 14th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

    That letter!!


    oops, that wasn’t very gracious of me


  17. I was just emailed the following to my personal email. From the same person who was advocating for BO.

    Non-partisan? Somehow I just don’t see John McCain recruiting the homeless and felons to vote.


    Register Voters with Vote for Homes!

    Vote for Homes! is a NONPARTISAN coalition registering thousands of people who
    are people who are living on low-incomes, including those who are homeless,
    living with disabilities, or ex-offenders.
    * Learn voting rights for people who are homeless, ex-offenders, and those
    with disabilities. For example, did you know that people who have felony
    convictions can vote as soon as they are released from prison?
    * You can bring the information back to your group or learn how to volunteer
    directly with the Vote for Homes! Campaign.
    * The deadline for voter registration is October 6, 2008 so it’s time to get
    Choose ONE voter registration and education training:
    * Wednesday, August 20th from 6:00pm – 7:30pm
    * Thursday, August 21st from 3:30pm – 5:00pm
    * Sunday, September 7th from 2:30pm – 4:00pm
    All trainings held at 1515 Fairmount Ave.
    Snacks provided.


    Perhaps this is why the DNC feels we are not needed.
    There are plenty of homeless and felons around. Now who would benefit here? hmmmmm. It is a conundrum.

    And I am going to Denver!

  18. meileen: Stoopids like Brazile & the DNC still haven’t figured out that big crowds & fawning press still won’t deliver votes in Nov.

  19. Oh, ma Gaaaaaad! I said I was going offline for a few days because we have houseguests. My wish was to come back to the news that Hillary was back in the race and putting her name in nomination.

    Is it true? Am I dreaming?

  20. Late last night, a troll bragged that B0 had snagged his 2 M donor.

    How much you wanna bet that the $0.02 some of us sent back in the beg letters made us a “small-time contributor?’ I just wonder if Obama used our fake Monopoly money in the same way?

  21. Great post, as are all the posts here. I hope that Hillary takes this to the credentials committee if all else fails (can she still?). I hope that we hear soon about which delegates obamaworld has replaced with their own, so we can do something about it.

  22. PofE – Did you know that if you pay to get into an Obama rally, or buy a t-shirt there, he counts you as a “small donor?”

    LOL! What a con artist.

  23. You’re probably right parentofed.

  24. I feel Barry will gather the names and feed them in somehow….no way is he depending on these folks to show up and vote. All this voter recruiting , is name gathering….. like dead people voting . He has never won anything squarely ….Ever

  25. Darragh Murphy of PUMAPac will be on Corbett at 4:35 eastern time. We can listen at http://www.wilknetwork.com and call at 570/883-0098. There’s also a Hillary delegate, a well known local attorney, who’ll be calling at 4:05. He told a local paper he’s ready for a floor fight at the convention.

  26. madamab: Yes, I had heard that; that’s what made me think of the $0.02. Gee, wonder when we’ll hear about that t-shirt & rally entry “small donor” in the MSM?

    Sounds like a good McCain ad to me.

  27. what I’m worried about is… and I’m not getting too excited because I’ve seen the word “symbolic” tossed around in every report…. isn’t being nominated and being a part of the roll call TWO different things??? am I missing something??? I want to be excited about this but it seems off….

  28. Great post SM!!!! I still don’t understand why these MSM nimrods keep acting like this is some favor for the clintons. Doesn’t anyone know that this is not BO’s convention????? These MSM morons act as if the convention is a coronation, WTF!!!!!

  29. scranton, on August 14th, 2008 at 3:42 pm


  30. Say, I wonder if I send back Monopoly bills in denominations of $1000 I’ll be listed as a “major donor?”

    Per Prolix’s tip, I actually pasted B0’s pic on some fake money to return. I thought Obama said his face doesn’t look like the other Presidents’ faces on money?

  31. Am I not getting the complete picture correctly in my head?

    She gives a speech and THEN releases her delegates PRIOR to the rollcall vote allowing them to either continue to stick with her or automatically change over to Obama?

    Please tell me if I heard this right or not. If so, then this just colors everything about the nomination once again.

  32. Kyle: Listen up and step away from the Kool Aide machine. Obama has not core values or principles to begin with. If you can offer one I will buy you a coke.

  33. Well, to quote “It’s Obama’s Convention” and he decided to let her have a roll call vote! Ha! He has got the biggest ego…I imagine next he will say that he will let us vote in November…for him of course.

    Wow…just saw Hillary’s past spokeswoman who is now in Obama Camp along with Miss Soliz.

    300 delegates…step up to SAVE OUR DEMOCRATIC PARTY

  34. They punished FL and MI but failed to punish the other states that pushed their primaries up. The rules were applied haphazardly. In addition they stole votes from Hillary and handed them to the big O in Mi. Oh, and in the GE my vote will count for the 1 not a F*&^%*% 1/2.

  35. PUMA, the Denver Group and all the other pro-Clinton groups have so far ignored the most important prong in their strategies to date, and that’s to place pressure on Clinton herself to withdraw her endorsement. As Tom of Paine has pointed out, her role in covering up the election fraud, whether coerced or not, is unacceptable. The only way to force her hand is to occupy her senate office and call her publicly on a bad decision that does nothing to further democracy.

    Individuals can fax or email her New York sentate offices, pointing out that Obama is not really a Democrat, but an equal opportunity opportunist with no moral compass. It’s dumbfounding that any politician of integrity would endorse him, but especially Clinton in light of her promise to help us take back the country. Here are some facts to remind her about before she walks into onto the convention floor and starts slobbering over Obama.



  36. kyle – with no due respect Barack Obama has no core beliefs or values

  37. Kyle wants some coke, not a coke.


  38. Floor Fight…We are not going to take it anymore!

    300 delegates…step up to SAVE OUR DEMOCRATIC PARTY

  39. I just saw a video about the so called protest cages.
    They are really make shift holding pens. Do not enter them at all. They have barb wire and tazers.
    I feel so bad about all this election. May God(dess) prevail in swift action against this take over of our Democracy! Canada is looking better and netter to me every day.

  40. Obama won his state senate seat by knocking opponents off the ballot. That’s why I included in one of my poems the line (based on what robber baron Rockefeller said): “Competition seems to be the only sin…”


  41. Herring: Shouldn’t you be out buying your back to school clothes and matching lunchbox today? Have you found one with Obama’s face plastered all over the sides yet?

  42. Good reply to Herring Pat……………….herrings are little fish anyway – PUMAs can bat them away –

    This ‘bitch’ is not jealous of Precious – he frankly, makes me want to throw up – but remember this little fish — payback is a bitch

    noway, nobama, november

  43. AP/Yahoo Headline:

    Obama campaign: Detroit mayor unwelcome at convention

    hahaha. Little too late, guys, to disconnect yourselves from that one. In eyes of public, I daresay Kilpatrick=Obama

  44. “Best of luck to all you jealous bitches on your path to McCain.”

    You have no idea what you are talking about. You do not know who is voting for who. You have no idea who is for Mccain and who is for a thrid party or sitting it out…no idea what-so-ever! All you know is that PUMA’s and 18 million will NOT VOTE FOR STUPID, STUTTERING PHONY FRAUDOBAMA MARXIST PIG COMMUNISTIC SUPPORTER! and you can take that last part to the bank

  45. More on O’s core values. Procured millions in gov’t $$ for slum lords whose tenants lived in rat infested, unheated apartments, while O got political contribution $$.

    I wish Christina were around to read this…


  46. #
    Herring, on August 14th, 2008 at 3:54 pm Said:

    Jealousy is a tough thing to deal with, almost as tough as losing. Best of luck to all you jealous bitches on your path to McCain. If fact, you all should go vote for McCain, so that the Clinton’s can just go away forever. We don’t need you, we’ll just pick up a few more 18-27 year olds to take your place. I could care less, but we need loyal soldiers to battle this Republican juggernaut, not whiners. The passion is cute though. OBAMA ‘08!

    F&ck you! sry, but I can’t say it any better 😉

  47. oh no! I didn’t want my own comment in the quote lol

  48. Herring- Jealous of what??? Being mindless bots that don’t have the sense to investigate a candidate. Or could we be jealous of the group think you all have fallen in to. Or could it be that we are standing up for everyone’s right to vote and be counted and not have elections stolen.

  49. the trolls are so worried and out in force today…
    now where did I put my anti-troll spray????

  50. If you dont vote you cant complain

    Actually, you can. Starting with being pissed that you have no one to vote for.

  51. Herring is a “red herring”, i.e., an entirely irrelevant, absurd, fallacious attempt to support a claim in place of any evidence …

  52. herring, does the u of minnesota know that you’re using their computers to harass people online and mask your ip address after you’ve already been banned? I bet they wouldn’t appreciate that very much. you better leave.

  53. Indigo – please pass the anti-troll spray, I seem to have used may last can.

  54. Herring smells like a rotten fish – so PLEASE, dearest Conflucians, don’t engage the TROLL.

    I’ll let the comment stand for now, just to prove the immaturity of many Obama supporters who can’t hold a candle next to Democracy.


  56. luckyann: He is just another hapless teen without a summer job or some yahoo undergrad who is still living off mom and dad but who has the answers to everything. Clue #1 the “jealous bitches” comment. Sounds like every typical teen who was denied the keys to the car because his license was suspended for going through red lights.

    It a pose with hands on hips, lower jaw jutting, red faced baby who is hearing the word “no” expressed loudly for the first time.

    How dare we jealous bitches deny him! Add him to the list of Obamabots who need to take another crack at the history books before they shill their empty rhetoric against our brick walls.

  57. Thank you sm. As usual you are right. Oh,and again great post.

  58. we’ve got a troll infestation over at alegre’s blog, too. they must have put an email out. it’s SOOO flattering to be on the list.

  59. CHANGE–Anybody Can Do It!! (How to Fool “The System”…)

    This is a feel good post!!!! (esp. if you love animals)


  60. tsk tsk, that’s a pretty outrageous claim, unless you have backup or sources i’m going to have to moderate that comment. If you’re being snarky, you might need to work on it a bit…

  61. It says a lot about someone who wishes to spend such a beautiful summer day in a college library scrolling through blogs and leaving behind stupid comments. This guy needs a girlfriend. Or a boyfriend. Or a pet. Whatever.

  62. I’m thinking of hiring a helicopter to drop ripe tomatoes all over invesco field during the speech. I know farmers who will be thrilled for the price I can offer.

  63. I don’t have a problem with people who say they just won’t vote for Obama. That’s why they call it voting. I do have kind of a problem with people who won’t vote for Obama unless this or that happens, procedurally, at the Convention. Either such people are basing a substantive choice on a procedural matter, which strikes me as odd (we have courts and Rules Committees for that, rather than political action more broadly), or they’re not being entirely up-front about the strictly procedural nature of what they want. Raise your hand if you’re saying that if your procedural conditions are met and Obama is still the nominee, you’ll vote for him.

  64. Did that caller say that he has gotten emails from superdelegates that support Hillary?

  65. SM: In a rush to acknowledge my “bah humbug” response, I totally forget to congratulate you on another fantastic post. You guys have kept us on our toes all day with your insights and observations. Great work once again!

  66. Sorry garychapelhill. It’s part snark part truth but I should have kept it to myself..you can pull it.

  67. Rich in PA: Let me make my position crystal clear, and I can only speak for myself here, the True Messiah could come down from the heavens and grant my every earthly wish, and nothing would sway me to vote for Obama no matter the conditions. This guy is not only inexperienced, unqualified, totally out of his depth, but his tactics make him altogether unworthy of assuming the role of Commander in Chief.

    I hope this clarifies your question to some degree and I might add that this goes double for the DNC.

  68. Rich: I won’t vote for Obama as I di not believe that he is qualified. That is my substantive choice. Procedural consitions have nothing to do with his qualifications or lack thereof. My departure from the Democratic Party had more to do with procedural matters, or their propensity to play with the roolz. I will continue to vote for the downticket Dems who habe represented me well.

  69. Just got a new computer, hope this works,

    You have to redo everything, and I’m signed on with everything with PUMA , I don’t remember all my passwords

    Here goes.

  70. It worked,

    Thanks BOSTON—-for your help this morning,

    I think I will no longer have problems—newer computer.

  71. So what if you have a problem with how people vote? People can choose to vote for someone because of the cut of his jacket, if they so choose.

    You’re missing the issue, which is that customary procedures of a nominating convention are being bent in order to deny one person the right to a legitimate roll call, and to smooth the way for a candidate preferred by the elites of a registered party. That’s not typical of the Democratic Party. BTW, we know that the courts consider the DNC a private party and are reticent to interfere, so that’s not a viable option.

  72. whoops, my post was re Rich

  73. Rich in PA – the only “condition” we’re requiring is a fair, open, transparent convention, the same as we’ve had since 1884. We’re asking for a convention free of manipulation, intimidation and political blackmail, where the rules and procedures that have been set to ensure a fair and just result are followed to the letter. If that’s too much to ask of the party, why on earth would I want to vote for its candidate?

  74. Democratic Process O8

    The Educational Foundation for the Integrity
    of the Democratic Process
    Asheville, North Carolina

    Connect-the-Dots Part 1

    Connect-the-Dots Part 2

    Connect-the-Dots Part 3

    Please have all PUMAs going to the convention or any rally look at these three videos. It will prepare you for any and all arguments with Obama Camp folks.


  75. TskTsk, some of those quarrantined last month should be nice and “ripe” by now

  76. kc….”CNN just announced this as ‘breaking news.’
    It shouldn’t be news—it is SOP that a major contender be nominated. I hate how they all make it sound like they are doing her and us a favor. To hell with them!”

    You’re absolutely correct and why is it up to Obama whether she gets her name put into nomination?

    Mountain Sage

  77. I am appalled at Marc Ambinder who was just now on NPR. He wasreporting on “All Things Considered”. He was on within the first 30 minutes of this afternoon’s program and said:

    ” that it was HRC the one who was resisting having her name on nomination while Obama wanted her name there all along b/c he wanted unity..”

    This is a blatant LIE!!! And Robert Siegel(NPR) said NOTHING.

    Someone has to call NPR on this: it is outrageous they have put forward this travesty of report.

    NPR said also that HRC as a Superdelegate herself will cast her vote for
    Obama and ask her supporters to do the same.

  78. Well, LoudInHere, I’ll just speed dial Hillary on my cell! We would be cheering if the Obama camp weren’t calling this a “symbolic” gesture. We don’t need symbolism. We need a fair and honest convention. WTH is Obama so afraid of? That she’ll win?

  79. I’ve clearly stated that I cannot vote for Obama now, no matter what. At one time that would have been acceptable but not after this primary.

    But every candidate has a right to pursue votes under the laws of this country and the usual and customary procedures of their respective parties. For example, I was never going to vote for Ron Paul or Mike Gravel, but I don’t think the MSM had a right to cut them out of debates. Why should the MSM select an arbitrary number of debaters, and tell the others they don’t matter?

  80. LoudInHere:

    Only when Hillary is the nominee will the anger stop . . . .in other words, if not Hillary then McCain or anybody but ‘you know who’!

  81. Murphy is on computer/radio Corbett show

  82. Now the trolls are trying to get us to hate on Hillary.

    Isn’t that gracious of them?

  83. yo LoudInHere…

    because its quite obvious that a “symbolic” roll call vote is just more smoke and mirrors…. we did not “get what we want” as is a fair convention.

  84. DownListen

    Yes, the delegate did say Hillary superdelegates were contacting him.

    Darragh is still on Corbett and doing a beautiful job of expressing PUMA ideas.

  85. Just can’t get excited over that plaque & pat on the back for the little lady. No, putting her picture in the company newsletter with the big guys all smiley won’t help either.

  86. Tim Weaver – yes, my life will be better voting for McCain…. because I cannot stomach voting for a lying, hypocritical, amoral con artist.
    But you go right ahead!

  87. plural: Hillary-hate is what kept them going this year, eating up their lives and time. If they feel this strongly, everyone else must, too. If Obama gets the nomination, McCain-hate will get them up in the morning, and keep them up late.

  88. Rich in PA: I think there’s a valid point as regards a person who who suggested they are witholding a vote for B.O. solely on procedural grounds such that satisfying those would enable them to vote for him. There are two issues: (1) the desire for proper procedure and (2) the desire for a qualified candidate. These are interrelated in this case. Had B.O., for example, stood up for fairness (e.g., in allocating delegates, in objecting to unfair treatment of Hillary) then THAT ALONE would have spoken favorably to his character. So it may well be that if HE leads the charge to correct procedures now that the probability would increase, for some people, to vote for him. For others, a correction of the procedures (even if due to arm-twisting or PUMA clout) may at least increase the probability they will NOT raise serious objections (to the party and/or the candidate) in the coming months, posibly causing them to leave the party. For others, of course, it will make no difference. Nevertheless, from the above points, it follows that there remains a valid (probabilistic) causal correlation between correcting the procedures and success for the Democratic party (a mean decrease in opposition and/or mean increase in positive votes for the nominee).

  89. Michael I. Butera, a Clinton delegate “It is as if they are trying to foment a floor fight at the convention,” he said. “Which by the way, is fine with me.

  90. Two candidates come to the end of the campaign trail with little more than 170 votes separating them by choice of the superdelegates. The first candidate has won all the major blue states and has also managed to roll up the popular vote, the largest number of votes ever achieved by a Dem candidate.

    The second candidate has won caucus states, a very small percentage in an overall vote toll and one that is not nearly enough to guarantee a win in the general election.

    The first candidate won the state of FL handily and though there was a problem with the MI delegates and the popular vote, she was penalized and lost 4 delegates to candidate number two in retribution. This system of attribution clearly favored candidate number two.

    So I guess my point is, regardless of the other numbers, two candidates separated by a mere 170 votes should be able to battle it out on the convention floor and prove that this indeed is the will of the people. Can we make it any easier to explain than this?

  91. Will Bower is on Fox

  92. Mike Butera was just on Corbett.

  93. MSNBC just said Hardball will be on at 7pm EST tonight (Olympics coverage on earlier).

  94. hatshepsut, great explanation, do you think he/she understood!!!

  95. Let’s just put it this way:

    I love the smell of troll flop sweat in the afternoon.

  96. LoudInHere, on August 14th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    And what’s wrong with that? A vote for Barky is a vote against Democracy.

  97. Trolls stink, 24/7

  98. SM,

    I love your posts, I loved listening to you on the radio last night and I love your one act plays. I can totally dig where you’re coming from. This post rocks. Carry on.

  99. PJ –

    So I guess my point is, regardless of the other numbers, two candidates separated by a mere 170 votes should be able to battle it out on the convention floor and prove that this indeed is the will of the people. Can we make it any easier to explain than this?

    Nope. And honestly, if Obama were the type of person who would, GRACIOUSLY, have understood his status as PRESUMPTIVE nominee, his very thin majority of pledged delegate votes (my count is 135 without FL and MI being fully seated), and the hostility of HIllary supporters towards him, and had DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT, rather than pretending it didn’t exist (which he is still doing), then I’d probably vote for him.

    But he is not that type of person. He is an entitled, narcissistic, hateful, condescending prig, with no experience and no credentials. All he wants is for us (and Hillary) to sit down and shut up.

  100. woops, didn’t see your comment Pat before sending mine. Cavuto was pretty antagonistic against Will just now. Verifies that this was a strategy for the media

  101. Elixir – No offense, and I agree with you about the lovely and talented SM, but, um…I’m the one that writes the plays. 🙂

  102. Cavuto kept saying Hillary and lost in same sentence. Have been trying to hold my fire and keep emotions under control for health sake but am losing it, too.

  103. Screaming at Fox now


    I was just listening to the news at ABC radio and the anchor actually said “in a gesture of political good will and grace, Barack Obama has allowed Hillary Clinton’s supporters to put her name in a ballot”.

    What a bunch of assholes! Obama was dead set against the idea. The recalcitrant and intransigent Hillary supporters forced him to.

    Nice spin douchebags!

  105. You can always tell an Obama troll, can’t you? You don’t even have to read the message; it’s “I wanted” “I expected” “I suggest” and telling us what to do, “you should” “you should” just like their Master. Why in the heck should we care what Obots want or expect?

  106. I wouldn’t vote for Obama even if Sonny Jesus endorsed him.

    All the cheating and vote stealing is just the reason he became the presumptuous nominee, even if he won fair and square he’d still be unqualified.

  107. Elixir – MadamaB is the TRUE CONFLUCIAN playright of the one-act plays – but the rest of your comment, THANK U! I love to read your comments as well!

  108. oops … posted on the wrong site (I’ve got Confluence and Bitterpoliticz both open, and the info was in response to a question on Bitterpoliticz). The MSNBC Hardball info was to say that some key people from PumaPac are supposed to be on the show tonight (7pm EST).

  109. Well, we always knew where Fox stood and why they temporarily aired our message. On the plus side, Fox must be a little worried this could help Hillary and hurt Obama. Jeez, Republicans can’t let anything stop the coronation of The One. And Fox did give legs to our message. And, after all, they’re no more disgusting than MSNBO or CNN, maybe less.

  110. Call me crazy, many have, but I find the smell of troll flop sweat strangely arousing.

    What I hear between the lines is a seductive allure like I’m drawn to you, but I can’t explain it — I want to taunt you and pull your pigtails, but I don’t know why — I’d like to invite you to my parent’s basement, but I’m not allowed. Holy crap — this is “To Catch a Preditor!”

    Please disregard my comments.

  111. I keep saying to myself all day–ignore media rhetoric, ignore media rhetoric, 1st step, 1st step.

    Fox just said sounded that Clinton forced this Anne Lewis on now. Uhhhhhh just said, Obama is the winner but want Hillary’s supporters heard and respected–example of democrats working together

    Someone earlier said they would believe it when they heard it from Hillary Bill or Chelsea.

  112. Jeff: Sometimes you have to separate the wheat from the chaff: McCain is experienced. McCain has served over 20 yrs in the congress. And as an extra added bonus: McCain to my knowledge never left his constituents freeze their asses off in brutal Chicago winters while he and Rezko vacationed in sunnier climes. Hope this helps!

    And just for the record, not that I am condoning cheating on your spouse, but comparably speaking, leaving a large group of people out in the cold carries a far higher degree of sin in my book. These were women, children and the elderly. I hope you understand.

  113. Pat Johnson, on August 14th, 2008 at 4:17 pm Said: Edit Comment
    SM: In a rush to acknowledge my “bah humbug” response, I totally forget to congratulate you on another fantastic post. You guys have kept us on our toes all day with your insights and observations. Great work once again!

    As far as I’m concerned, you can send me to hell Federal Express Priority Overnight Saturday AM delivery – and you are STILL my sister. Albeit, your dark-skinned Dominican from Lawrence, MA sister, but I AM your sister, regardless. LOVE YOU ALWAYS!

  114. Nancy just warned Lieberman that he would lose his chairmanship if he did not stop dissing BO.

    News Alert:

    Nancy you are in the House, he is in the Senate.

    Shut your mouth!


  115. Jeff, on August 14th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    McCain pretends to care about people while BO looks down on people. No one is good enough for him, you are either to clingy to your gun or religion or you don’t speak spanish or you are one of those people that want Democracy while he just wants to cheat his way to the alter or you ask him questions when you shouldn’t. Nothing is good enough for Barky no wonder he only wants checks 🙄

  116. Prolix; We love it when you talk dirty. Now, go and wash your hands.

    Obama wants HIllary’s supporters heard and respected? Isn’t this exactly what Hill said? Bejeebus, but does this man have one original phrase or sentence in his whole body?

  117. sm – do you think we could ship BO with that same delivery method and address?

  118. Yes, Phala! First step only.

    Here is today’s email to Senator Clinton. (They must be getting very tired of me, but I don’t care.)

    Dear Senator Clinton,

    Step One is complete! You have won a great victory today. Your name will be placed in nomination.

    But will your delegates be allowed to vote for you? Will you, just like the first FDR, have speeches made on your behalf? Will the ballot be open? Will you have a genuine shot at the nomination?

    That is what we PUMAs want. We want there to be a floor fight. We want a real Convention, not a pomp-and-circumstance coronation. The delegate count was too slim and the obviousness of Senator Obama’s unelectability is too great.

    We want to win in November, and we want to do it with a real Democrat, not an empty suit who changes his positions every time the Republicans or the media want him to. If Senator Obama wins the nomination, that will mean that the Plutocratic wing of the Democratic Party has taken over. And the sound you’ll hear is the sound of millions of feet deserting the Democratic Party for good.

    Senator, I believe that you are a dedicated public servant with the experience, know-how and desire to turn this country around. An exceptional person is required in these dire times. A recent poll shows that Americans are ready for massive governmental reforms. Do you really believe Senator Obama can make that happen? Seems to me he is only interested in the status quo.

    We have suffered under Bush for seven and a half long years. Please do not force us to endure another four years of this failed Presidency. Please, un-suspend your campaign and fight for the ideals I know are so important to you.

    We’ve got your back. PUMA!

  119. MYIQ: LOL!!! jeeezus cripes on a pogostick – you make me laugh.

  120. scranton-
    are u talking about the corbitt show? a clinton delegate was on claiming supers were contacting him? i thought i heard that but then i missed the rest!

  121. Question? Who is paying for this vacation in Hawaii? Is it a working vacation paid for by all those small donors? Remember Bill Clinton’s train trip across real America before the convention and B0 is going to fly in on his jet from an estate in Hawaii. no offense to Hawaii

    Gotta go for now will catch up later. Love all of you, you keep me on track

  122. they’re freaking out aren’t they? he he 🙂

  123. Just for the record: If I ran for president I would take each and every poster and diarist with me to Washington! The brains, the wit, the knife sharp observations knock me out!

    Alert: no trolls allowed

  124. Off topic, but have you seen this disgusting video of Rush Limbaugh blaming Elizabeth Edwards for John cheating on her. I want to see a boycott. Who are his sponsors? It is time those who are sick to death of sexism stand up against it.

    Spread the word.

  125. Kristin Armstrong just won the Gold in cycling.

    Wow, I didn’t know women had been granted the right to have a license to ride a bicycle. What’s up wit’ th’t?”

  126. Heh. Nancy Pelosi just said the right thing, but for the wrong reason.

    Lieberman is a neocon from hell. He is speaking at the Republican Convention. Enough already. Buh-bye, Holy Joe.

  127. SM: Damn right we want a floor vote. If they think this kind gesture of allowing her name to be put into nomination is going to appease us in any way they are dead wrong.

    ¡Que viva los PUMAs!

  128. Well-ll-ll, that certainly wasn’t very gracious of Nancy to speak about Joe in that ugly manner, was it, now? Go back to charm school, Nancy.

    Phala: The house is owned by a founding member of the environmental advocacy group NDRC. Obama’ s people say he is paying the current rate for renting. Probably true, he is in the spotlight now.

  129. gary – I thought you were already at your meeting?

  130. attaturk – Hi!

    Did you actually just quote Forrest Gump! LOL

    Stupid would be to nominate a candidate that has no chance of winning in November. You’re right, let’s not be stupid. Let’s nominate Hillary and beat the cr*p out of McCain.

  131. Gary- The Confluence must be doing something right, this is TROLL CITY!!! Its very funny to sit back and read all of their mindless insults.
    Do ya think they got the word from above?

  132. Texan4Hillary:

    Yes, Hillary delegate, Mike Butera, was on Corbett saying he was being contacted by PUMAs and superdelegates. He wants a floor fight but will follow Hillary’s direction.

  133. PUMA-SF: exactly!!!! WTF is “allowing”?


  134. Carol Diamonds, BTW, you are my sister too, all the way! Just so you know. Ed is my brother-in-law by you & Pat Johnson.

  135. Carol, on August 14th, 2008 at 5:15 pm Said: Edit Comment
    sm – do you think we could ship BO with that same delivery method and address?

    FedEx will charge me extra for his Hawaiian golf clubs.

  136. Pat and I aren’t marrying Eddy. We are just using him for sex!

  137. Yeah, screw it. Now, he’s trying to act all gracious just like he was when he wrote the letter about TX and your FL vote. This man is so transparent it would be laughable if it wasn’t so fricking despicable.

  138. SM: sorry I meant MI and FL.

  139. Carol, on August 14th, 2008 at 5:34 pm Said: Edit Comment
    Pat and I aren’t marrying Eddy. We are just using him for sex!

    Is it the “motion in the ocean” or did I miss his extraordinary gymnastic skills at the family reunion?

    PAT: Don’t mix wine with that Jello pie!

  140. Obamanation (including the trolls) forgets two things:

    1. Democrats don’t do unity

    2. We can vote for whoever we want, including “none of the above”

    But maybe if they insult me a few more times, I’ll suddenly see the light and support Obama.

    I’d say “when pigs fly” but the odds are better for Porky getting a pilot’s license

  141. PUMA-SF: MI, FL, same thing. We are disposable votes at this point. One of the many reasons I want to move back to a “blue” state.

  142. SM: Ed and I are planning a Hawaiian honeymoon so no, I am not “using: him at all. He just needs to get out of the clutches of You Know Who. I’ve got Casey’s mom looking for him now.

  143. PUMAs!!!!

    This particular PUMA and her whole damn litter of pumas are voting for McCain. And in Virginia too!

    The democratic party has abandoned its core principles and in so doing, it’s base.
    Good luck with that, noobs.
    If we can not bring the DNC back, then it is time to start looking at a further ranged strategy.
    November should be the beginning, not the end of PUMA Power.

  144. YRM’s comment:

    “As Tom of Paine has pointed out, her role in covering up the election fraud, whether coerced or not, is unacceptable.”

    Agree. If Sen. Clinton does not contest the indefensible MI delegate manipulation to the credentials committee, as a simple matter of principle, she will be allowing election fraud used against her to stand and be swept under the rug. I would be very disappointed in her leadership if that happens. Besides, a nomination and roll call vote is meaningless at this point, and does not produce a fair and transparent process unless the fraud committed in the primary is corrected.

  145. Why are the trolls so interested in who we are voting for? It amazes me that this is so important for them to know. If Obama is such sure thing who cares for whom we cast our vote for? They wrote us off, said we were not needed, so apparently they feel they can carry this on their own. Puzzling.

  146. Patty, Patty, Patty……………..

    You are starting to sound like Reilly. They are both Ed’s, married, not gonna Honeymoon…………….

  147. Pat: Exactly. If we are so bloody unimportant, what does it matter what we do with our worthless votes? We’ve been replaced.

  148. More threats and coercion brought to you by Obama and the DNC. What a load of bullsh*t. Delegates you can vote for Hillary so long as you know that your votes won’t effect the coronation of “The One.” Wow! This must be the new style of Unity that Obama and the New and Improved Democratic Party represents. And BTW, who cares that the night Hillary speaks is the anniversary of women’s suffrage. Obviously women don’t amount to much any more in the New and Improved Democratic Party. I know, I have been sounding so angry lately. I guess this is the side effect of unity.

  149. FL Voter: Welcome to the club. Most of us here are ready to blow our corks. We are restless, uncertain, and baffled by what passes for politics these days. We hang together since this is the only sure way we have of holding our sanity and blood pressure in check. Some of us are close to an “intervention”.
    But nothing will deter us from this Obama abomination. The DNC needs a complete overhaul and this may be the one and only opportunity to carry this off. No Obama, no DNC.

  150. Back in the day, it was the suffragists who resented the argument that women had been “granted” the right to vote. They maintained that the right already belonged to women as citizens; it was the exercise of that constitutional right that had to be fought for.

    A precedent to remember on Women’s Equality Day, August 26.

  151. I knew when I read the word choreography in Mark Ambinder’s Pony post that it was bad news…

  152. PJ – I am so fed up that I will end up voting McCain if Hillary is not the nominee. I have never in my life voted for a Republican. But I feel that since I am in Florida I have to vote for the Republican to make sure that Florida does not become and “enabler” for Obama. I know that come GE, I will need a stiff drink to help me vote for the Republican.

  153. […] as the Confluence notes, here it comes When it occurs, Clinton — herself a superdelegate who gets a vote — is […]

  154. Which is to say, all this rhetoric about BO “granting” HRC the privilege of a roll call vote is just so nineteenth-century…

  155. I spoke to a friend this afternoon who said that no one in her office has been able to get the Obamanation book because it’s been sold out in Manhattan. I’d be very happy about this, except w/ O. nothing is as it seems, and I don’t know for sure what that means? Anybody know if it’s just been regular people wanting to read it?

  156. There is no way I will ever vote for Obama. Period. End of story. But this completely transparent attempt to only APPEAR to do the right thing while strong arming both the delegates and the other candidate (who won the popular vote!) makes me also unwilling to vote for ANYONE in the unDemocratic party. I WILL VOTE… against anyone who supports the current Democratic party primary system, the caucus system, and the arrogant liars in the DNC.

  157. Pheonix I did a comment on TalkLeft month’s ago concerning the background about the time of the 14th Amendment. Susan B. Anthony and Frederick Douglas were friends but suffered a breakdown of that friendship that lasted almost the rest of her life over women’s right to vote. Until then the abolishionist movement and the suffrage movement were closely tied. Susan B wanted voting rights extended to African Americans as well as women. Douglas answered back that first black men then they could on women’s voting rights. That caused the rift. So, there is a history in the USA of putting men of any color before women. What Obama, the DNC and the Democratic Party has done is simply repeating history. Not acceptable in this day and age.

  158. Women have been fighting for their rights granted under the constitution for over 100 years. The right to own property, the right to privacy, the right to keep their children, the right to vote. But they win these rights in the end. Women are not chattel, they are not owned, they do very well away from the patriarchal shield, they can think, speak, write, argue, defend, birth, create, thank you very much, without any assistance from those who so decree.

    This campaign strongly reinforced two very significant things: one, that ra*cism can be a very effective tool when used to defuse the enemy; and two, that women’s role in a sexist society has yet to be fulfilled. Only when these joint “isms” are entirely erased will there be equality. Until then, we are forced to fight, fight, fight.

  159. I keep trying to come up with analogies to describe the emptiness of this race. It is like thanking the guy who just hijacked your car at gunpoint for driving you to the police station to report the theft.

  160. OMG–I love you guys!! I heard the news earlier today, checking in at NQ at work, and was chomping at the bit to get home and be here. To my fantastic delight, I read this post and I too say:

    M_FING DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    As soon as I heard the “decision,” I knew it was b.s. faux unity crapola (lots of redundancy, but you get my point). They have been doing this all along: presenting this supposed show of “democracy” as if we do not see that it is completely and utterly lacking in authenticity. Do they think we are really that stupid/gullible and are there Dems out there who really buy into this ridiculous pantomime of openness and fair play? Will there be Dems who go: “Ohhh, they allowed Hillary’s name to appear on the ballot, NOW we’ll vote for him!?”



  161. The third thing proven to anyone who ever doubted it, is that we are still living in a sexist society. I really never realized how much we are still thought of as inferior. I feel rage.

  162. p.s. I don’t know if this has been posted, but Will Bower is supposed to be on Hardball (ick) at 7 p.m. I don’t know if I can contaminate my home by switching MSNBC on–I haven’t in months–but I’m curious…

  163. Rich of PA:

    You may find this difficult to fathom but I and many here do not raise our hands or swear an oath of fidelity to any politician, particularly one as empty and unqualified as Barack Obama. That goes for political parties as well when said “party” has turned it’s back on the most basic principles: one voter, one vote and protest as a viable democratic right.

    I raise my hand to swear on a Bible. I place my hand over my heart when saying the Pledge of Allegiance [for my country, not a candidate] or when the Star Spangled Banner is played. And I raise my hand, a clenched fist, in protest when I see and hear a brazen, corrupt group dedicated to underminding pinciples that we as citizens are called upon to protect.

    So, NO! I will not raise my hand and swear allegiance to a fraudulant candidate.

    I will raise my hand in the former examples. I will also raise my hand in November and pull the lever for the opposition if given no other choice.

    Think that adequately answers your smarmy request.

  164. Riverdaughter..missed your show last night ..went on a date!!!!! So what does this mean REALLY? Why would she give up her delegates if she’s placed in nomination? Or this all double talk ?

  165. pps: the ONLY thing that is STUPENDOUS about this news is that it reveals how incredibly powerful a grassroots movement can be. Our surge of defiance and insistence on due process brought this to pass–even if it is not genuine. It is confirmation of our ability to have a definite impact on this country.


  166. The One is an idiot if he thinks another backroom deal like the one with the DRC will do anything but make us furious. If my girl is denied anything short of a roll call vote by all the delegates does he honestly think we will not notice? We have constantly fought the MSM’s bullsh*t and spin. Can he really believe we would not notice this latest magic trick. Barry thinks he is a f*ucking magician or as the commercial says “an illuuuuusionist.”

  167. ALLRIGHT ..Peggy Sue!!!! I don’t know what you’re referring to but I’ll go back and find it…WOW…you go girl!!



  169. Did I miss discussion of “Obamanation” (the book that just came out) yesterday or earlier today?

  170. FYI – Mom, the Republican is now regularly getting some pretty nasty emails and video clips about Obama. I guess the repubs are just getting started. Things will continue to go downhill for Obama from now on. SuperDs wake up!!! It’s not too late!!! Vote for Hillary at the convention. She’s the only Democrat running.

  171. A phony validation of a phony show of unity is just a phony dog-and-pony show. That they think this would pass the smell test just re-enforces the PUMA belief that they think we’re stupid. As another calculated step toward getting HRC the nomination, it rocks.

  172. It is like thanking the guy who just hijacked your car at gunpoint for driving you to the police station to report the theft.

    Absolutely Pat. That is what they don’t realize. NOTHING short of an honest floor vote (which is not possible now, because they eliminated half the delegates in FL & MI, & replaced and bought and bullied the remaining delegates) could satisfy us because they HIJACKED the election and we watched it unfold for months. They cannot undo the damage, the corruption, by painting over it with platitudes and false gestures. It broke our hearts and violated our trust–that would take deep and genuine healing to repair, and none of them are remotely capable of that, as they have shown.

  173. FL voter: I missed your reply – YES!!! You and I are 1/2 votes, 1/2 people still – no unity until Democracy is played out!

  174. Pat Johnson, on August 14th, 2008 at 6:16 pm Said: Edit Comment
    Women have been fighting for their rights granted under the constitution for over 100 years. The right to own property, the right to privacy, the right to keep their children, the right to vote. But they win these rights in the end. Women are not chattel, they are not owned, they do very well away from the patriarchal shield, they can think, speak, write, argue, defend, birth, create, thank you very much, without any assistance from those who so decree.

    This campaign strongly reinforced two very significant things: one, that ra*cism can be a very effective tool when used to defuse the enemy; and two, that women’s role in a sexist society has yet to be fulfilled. Only when these joint “isms” are entirely erased will there be equality. Until then, we are forced to fight, fight, fight.

    AMEN, PAT!!!!

    Wow. This is why we are sisters. Thank you!

  175. “Rich in PA: Let me make my position crystal clear, and I can only speak for myself here, the True Messiah could come down from the heavens and grant my every earthly wish, and nothing would sway me to vote for Obama no matter the conditions. This guy is not only inexperienced, unqualified, totally out of his depth, but his tactics make him altogether unworthy of assuming the role of Commander in Chief.

    I hope this clarifies your question to some degree and I might add that this goes double for the DNC.”

    What Pat said.

  176. PAT!

    You rock!

    by the way, have you had an infestation of bots over here? I wondered if I could borrow some anti – bot spray!

  177. EVERYONE – don’t forget to tune in to MSNBC Hardball at 7:00pm EST – Darragh Murphy, Will Bower and Heidi Fi Feldman will be there.

    Will they stop Chris Matthews’ chill up his leg?

  178. I understand that there are Clinton haters in the Democratic party that will never accept Hillary as the nominee. I think they are wrong, but I understand their position.

    Although I support Hillary, I would still vote for the Democratic nominee, but only if that nominee was qualified and ideologically compatible with my beliefs.

    Obama is neither.

    So if they won’t accept Hillary, and we won’t accept Obama, the only solution is a 3rd option.

    What’s Al Gore doing for the next four-eight years?

  179. Is there a link to the story of replacing Hillary Delegates in Florida?

  180. MyIQ — I’d go with that idea. It’s Too bad Gore endorsed Obama in June.

  181. I haven’t watched MSNBC since Jan. Don’t think I can stomach Chris but will try.

  182. pumaalliance:

    It’s troll swarming season. If anybody ever invents an effective troll repellant or trollcide, they will make more money than Bill Gates

  183. Katiebird- There was a story some time ago in the Orlando Sentinal about how BO was purging the delegates. It caused a stir.

  184. Congratulations PUMA. We need bot spray over at NQ,many out tonight.

  185. Puma’s on hardball right now!

  186. I want the story about Rich in PA. I can’t find out why Peggy Sue wrote her terrific reply.

  187. Darragh & Will are on MSNBC right now!

  188. Who is this nitwit subbing for Matthews? They are such blockheads:

    “Are they sore or just sore losers?”

    They don’t LISTEN and understand the fundamental issue: DEMOCRACY!

  189. The NY daliy news is reporting that Hillary is getting the Thomasons to do an intro to her speech. O had kindly offered to have Michelle, her brother and Donna do it , but Hillary did not want to put them out. I am not smart enough and do not have enough info to know what Hillary is doing, but I trust her to be doing the right things.

  190. edwardian,

    Great post, I agree completely!

    Moreover, the DNC needs to learn that they cannot take my vote for granted because I am a female nurse over 60. I will own my vote and they need a lesson on respect.

  191. This idiot is BADGERING Murphy & Bower. They are holding their own and staying on message, but he interrupts them and slaps down everything they say.

  192. Fif- That’s that twit shuster who is a total a%%h(*&, to say the least. He is a Clinton hater and has no business passing himself off as a journalist.

  193. They are on MSNBC, did you really expect them to treat Murphy and Will will respect?

  194. Is anyone watching this? This guy–who IS he??–is attacking Murphy and Bower. He just said that “a spokesperson for PUMA said they raised $6 million.” She said that’s not true.

    Now he is bringing up Darragh’s donation to McCain years ago.

    I f*ing hate these guys. He keeps repeating his attacks no matter what they say!!!

  195. Does MSNBC have any journalists working for them?

    Brokaw is retired

  196. You mean OMSNBC, they have been in the sack for BO since day one!!!!!

  197. Oh–that’s the idiot who made the pimping comment about Chelsea.

    He just accused them of lying about the numbers.

    He just asked them to pledge to support the democratic nominee.

    They both said “NO DEAL!”

  198. I don’t get MessNBC or FAUX news, thank Koresh!

  199. PUMAs are doing great on Hardball.

    The idiot who is replacing Tweetie is editorializing like crazy.

  200. Schuster was horrible

  201. I am sorry but if there is no floor fight with Hillary Obama will go down in November I will not allow that snake oil salesman near the white house!

    I am sorry Hillary but your party is gone Obama goes down in flames and takes the democrats with him…

    I am glad I am in the PUMA life boat sorry Nancy and Dean no room for you here sorry looks like you get to here the danc band blay “Autumn” as the DNC goes Tango Uniform into the frigid deep!


  202. That was excruciating. I absolutely hate the MSM. I stopped watching it months ago, and only watched tonight because of Murphy & Will. They were stellar and strong, staying on point, but it didn’t matter what they said. Shuster was like an obnoxious pit bull, ignoring all their responses, and shoving his own agenda down their throats.


  203. Did you see that travesty with Darragh, Will and David Shuster? This was awful! Never ever watch MSNBC again!

  204. that was awesome!!!!!! DAvid shuster comes off as the biggest prick ever. He makes o’reilly look like a saint. I’m so glad they just calmly answered his questions…since when our journalists supposed to sound angry???? what a joke

  205. Schuster also cited a quote BY Hillary that said she did not support groups that were working against the Democratic Party, “including PUMA.” Is that a direct quote from Hillary and does anyone have a source?

  206. Let Shuster badger and interrupt. Many Obots are just incredibly naive, but Middle America has caught on to the unfairness of the press toward Hillary and her followers. We need to remember, the public does not trust the media, and with good reason.

  207. pat, david shuster seems like a petulant brat. I’m sure that appeals to obots, but not to most americans…

  208. PoE we are channeling each other 🙂

  209. what channel is hb on?

  210. yeah, we need to find that quote….who did he say told him that?

  211. gary: nice company to be in.

  212. I caught the tail end of Schuster’s interview. Jeebus, if I was Darragh or Will I would have asked him when he signed up to officially represent Obama and the DNC. It was rather astounding. Dude had better not call himself a reporter anymore.

  213. I always said that Dan Rather should have taken one for the team when he interviewed Sadam Hussein. Today, I believe that Will should have taken one for the team with his drilling by that piece of sh*t Shuster.


  214. the thing is Puma is not working against the party we are the party! wake up !


  215. Darragh looked like she was ready to leap over the desk PUMA style and rip his fu*king face off? I love Darragh and Will. They tried to stay on message but this tool had an agenda all his own. Hillary never stood a chance with this cable network. Assholes all!!!!

  216. It was very clear that the ONLY reason Schuster had them on was to discredit them. He had no interest in their p.o.v. and prepared to attack them with false rumors. They did a really good job in the face of his assault.

    I haven’t watched MSNBC since February-ish: that is officially my last visit. I will not watch them again for anything. Good riddance.

  217. RD just started a cocktail party thread.

  218. Where the hell did he come up with the 6 million? I bet he had his facts screwed up about the amount we helped raise to pay down her debt. Jesus, if you want to make a point get you freaken facts straight!!!!!!!!!!!!

  219. I took my Repub dad to the doc in April, and the waiting room was full of him & his fellow railroad retirees, most Republicans. MSNBC was on the TV. They mostly ignored it, but at one point, one guy said, “They sure want her out the race, don’t they?” Another answered, “They sure do, why do you suppose that is?” My dad said, “She sure is smart, I’ll give her that. Tough, too.”

    My point is: the MSM has had to do overkill to get Hill & us out of the way. That is the way they have tipped their hands. The harder we fight back, the more people will see their duplicity and wonder.

  220. WOW- PUMA Priest & Priestess Darragh and Will were on point.

    Agree with all, David Schuster (sp?) should give back his journalism diploma. $6m? We raised that for Hillary’s debt, NOT for PUMA.


  222. That’s David “They’re really pimping out Chelsea” Schuster, who was put on administrative leave by the National Barack Channel (NBC) for saying just that, who is replacing Tweetie the Twit. I have a feeling he’s even more of a Clinton Hater because of that, or suffers from one of the worst cases of Clinton Derangement Syndrome (CDS) of any MSM alleged reporter a.ka. -Egobama paid pundit.

    I’m very proud of Will and Dar for holding their own, making our points despite the onslaught by Schuster against PUMA. Wonder if Axlerod or Donna Brazile gave Schuster his questions and talking points.

    Will and Dar were up first on Hardball because their efforts, and those of all PUMAs prevailed to get HRC on the ballot, and the Obamabots are royally p’od.

    Thank you both for your courage, hard work and persistence – it has paid off! If only Schuster knew the truth about the hell you’ve both gone through to stay the course (e.g., threats), he might show a bit more respect.

    Dar and Will, you are both class acts, and we can only hope to emulate you in our own sphere of influence.

    PUMAs prevail!

  223. well looks like trhe dye is cast we must disrupt the convention and do what is necessary to ensure these party politboro hacks are handed a humiliating defeat in November….


  224. It’s hard to fathom the fact that since June 3, not one Democrat, journalist, pundit, or talking head has had the guts to say “Hey, wait a minute! Obama only has 1766 pledged delegates; why is HE the nominee? You’re not supposed to count the superdelegates in your total before the convention!” Only the people at sites like this questioned it.

    Since not one high-profile democrat questioned this move, it will be very difficult for Sen. Clinton to be perceived as not “stealing” the nomination, even if she were to win legitimately. What a mess.

    I will be voting for NO democrats this November.

  225. I held my nose and watched Schuster tonight. You could tell where this was going when he started the show by saying “Hillary got her way”.

    I have known for months that I would not vote for BO. I haven’t been able to decide if I would vote for McCain. But if the DNC has her release all her delegates, that’s it. I will vote for McCain to help BO lose.

  226. Since the Democratic primaries started I knew that MSNBC is Obama’s channel. I can’t forget David Suster’s comment that the Clintons are pimping Chelsea, the forst day she came out to campaign for HER MOTHER! When Obama brought his daughters to the campaign trail FOLLOWING his advisers to show that he is a family man, Shuster did not dare to say this to the Obama’s, he would have the black cummunities to answer too.
    The Democratic party DOES NOT HAVE A DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS! By having delegates and worse superdelegates to decide the resultsof the race, instead the ordinary citizens who are voting. Hillary won the popular votes! All the delegates and the superdelegates gave their support to Obama ONLY because he know to give speeches NOTHING MORE! THERE IS NO WAY I’LL VOTE FOR OBAMA.
    NYC, NY

  227. Lou Dobbs, “number of pledged delegates, not separated by much. That being the case, one of the clear results is, this is a brokered convention.” Bill Schneider insists that all SDs will hold for Obama.

  228. Whatever it is, keep up the FIGHT<

    SCREW anyone who doesn’t like it.



  229. I missed Schusters interview … but driving home from work I heard on the radio about Hillary’s name being put into nomination . I had to slow down because I cried tears of joy and relief all the rest of the way home . where do we go from here ?? FLOOR FIGHT FLOOR FIGHT or Hillary 2012 . 🙂 F**K a bunch of trolls ,bambots, . media mongrels ,Coward Dean , Donna Godzilla , Nancy Pukeloser, and David Axemurderer

  230. David Shuster is neither a journalist nor an investigative reporter. He’s a reader from a teleprompter!!!
    He’s trying to get a name like “tweetie bird” and and the “pom pom boys”..maybe we should call him “no name, no brain”
    Now back to business..is this all chorograghed or is this the real deal? Where is RD?


    Looks like Brina already has!

  232. Brina:

    Obama = Bush III

    and since no, I don’t want any of the things you list I will NOT be voting for
    Sen. Obama.

  233. Hillary won New York state. She’s a Super Delegate from New York. She should represent her state’s results and vote for HRC on the 1st ballot.

    If HRC won YOUR state, contact your Super Delegates and tell them to vote for HRC — that’s what they’re supposed to do! New York voters — tell Hillary to represent you and vote for HRC!

    Enough of the pressure on the DNC. . . Now it’s time to take it to the delegates — including Obama delegates who need to be persuaded that he can’t win. (I know, most have drunk the kool aid, but look for those who just want a winner in Nov. and might be persuadable.)

  234. I demand a floor vote! I want to see the roll call of these “super delegates” that are going to sell out the Democratic party so we can vote them out of office.

    Hillary is the only truly viable candidate in this election. BO hasn’t polled well since last May. Repubs wouldn’t support McLaim if he were running against Hillary but at this point, McLaim has my vote!

    The Media chose their candidates for us like they did for the repubs even though Hillary has more votes total. Dean and gangsters tossed Lieberman under the bus and now Hillary.

    Democratic Party leaders are more interested in power than the people. My dad told me this just isn’t his Democrat Party anymore. They can have Queen Bee Nancy and that creepy Harry land deal Reid.

    The US Postal Service issued a new stamp that has BO’s entire resume printed on it.

    Russia invades Georgia – what would President Obama do? “Um um er uh I um I encourage um uh uh er uh um diplomacy um er diplomacy and um um er um the Europeans um uh uh er um……… this guy makes Bush look like a golden throated orator.


    Sorry to go on so but TY for allowing me to vent.

    P.S For our media friends, BO is still 50% typical white guy.

  235. […] Are they kidding?  If either or both camps and their captains actually think some kind of “shaux” (faux show) is going to satisfy people who honestly believe Obuhbuh to be a piss poor candidate, either, both or all of them are nuttier than a leftover box of decades old fruitcake.  Nobody wants having Senator Clinton’s name being placed in nomination to be a merely “symbolic” gesture.  We want a fight! […]

  236. I have been down all day after hearing what I thought,at one time, would be a good thing. Now, however, I know having Hillary’s name in nomination is a sham and another way to humiliate her. I will never vote for Obambi………maybe no other Democrat, ever. Now I hate this party to which I have always worked and given money and supported. Never agian!!!

    Hillary or McCain

  237. Sorry…….Never again!!!

  238. TT: What is so wrong with having the Democratic party follow Democratic traditions of having a legitimate rolla call vote and a nomination ballot proceeding?

    I wrote this post, I am a Florida DEMOCRATIC voter and my vote has been toilet paper since 2000.

    I want to be represented at the convention – what is so wrong with Democracy that you and your ilk are against?

  239. Who should Hillary have as her VP candidate?

    Let’s get some names out here!

    Let’s start the MSM speculating on who her running mate might be!!

  240. rolla = roll.

    BTW, we are not loyal to people, we are loyal to the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and to Democratic PRINCIPLES.

    This ain’t about Hillary. This is about my vote & 17,999,999 votes counting.

  241. TT: When Obama and the DNC start PRESERVING our rights as voters in every state, then I’ll unite behind the Democratic candidate that was chose BY the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE, by the MAJORITY of voters, not by superdelegates who feel they can push their career forward because Howard Dean said so.



  242. TT: I lived in fear since 2000. I’ve lived in fear for the 12 years of Repub rule in the 80s JUST BECAUSE we didn’t have Ted Kennedy as the nominee in 1980.

    I live in fear that my vote will never, EVER count for anything. Neither my daughter, nor my future grandkids either.

    I want Democracy back in the Democratic Party. Until then, they are Blue Republicans to me. They are acting just like them – THAT is why I’m a PUMA.

    Please, no more pushing the DNC talking points.

  243. Then you’re a former PUMA, no argument. I don’t see why there’s a debate worth having.

  244. TT: Hillary on top, Obama VP. That is as far as I’ll go.

    Anymore reasons why, read my post above, I’m also sm77.

    Democracy that plays out where MAJORITY & one person, one vote = Democrat in the White House 2008.

    Democracy a la NEO-republican DNC 2008 = PUMA.

  245. SM, I’ve read your reasons and I while I agree with many of your sentiments, I cannot agree with your final decision. I just feel we are cutting off our noses to spite our faces. And while my nose may be big and ugly, I still need it to breathe.

  246. TT: We WERE (past tense) under the “Big Tent” for a long time. And it was GREAT! But no more.

    Understand, TT – WE ARE FIGHTING for our votes to count. Whether it’s Obama, Clinton, McCain – who gives a crap – we want our votes to COUNT. Period.

    Count the damn votes! Whoever has the most votes from regular everyday DEMOCRATS, wins.

    What is so wrong with Democracy? I’m fighting my own party to count my damn vote? If they aren’t counting my vote, or 18,000,000 votes, then what will happen to Democracy itself?

  247. Positive thinking: Hillary WILL be the nominee if we all push are super delegates to do the right thing – vote Hillary.

  248. TT:

    McCain is the lesser of two evils, and Obama is the evil of two lessers

  249. I agree. Count the votes. (Which, by the way, means we have to put every candidate back on the ballot in Michigan and have a re-vote, if we are to be accurate about the vote count. And when that happens, Sen. Obama could come out ahead again. And then we also have to re-vote in every caucus state, since caucuses are not true votes either. And we should probably, in my opinion anyway, have a re-vote in every state because the current system of having some states vote before others is inherently unfair and misleading. And anyway, none of this will ever happen because nobody in the party authority wants this to happen, and that includes Senators Clinton and Obama and there’s no way we could get Democrats in Iowa and New Hampshire to agree to most of this. So I guess I’m saying that the system sucks but it ain’t gonna change anytime soon because it’s been this way for 200 years and politics are politics and everyone is out for their own best interest…)

    And when we re-count the votes, we all support the victor. That is the perfect solution and the only fair one.

    But since we know that isn’t going to happen, let’s find the next best solution. Which is elect a Democrat and then go ballistic on the party to change some of these cockamamie rules before 2012. We will never get our votes back from 2000. We will never get our votes back from this primary season. Let’s make lemonade out of lemons.

  250. myiq2xu, that is a perfectly good reason to vote for McCain. I assume that either 1) you agree with most of his ideas and principles, or 2) you think Obama is lying about his beliefs.

    If you believe number one, than you obviously could not be a Clinton supporter, since McCain is diametrically opposed to almost every single one of Clinton’s principles, where Obama and Clinton agree on virtually every principle. If you believe number two, than I would have to say that you are as judgmental as a Republican and a perfect McCain voter.

  251. TT: The DNC handed me a cup full of this yellow liquid which – for the most part LOOKS like lemonade, but it sure doesn’t taste and smell like it – and they say “DRINK IT, NOW!!! It’s lemonade! NO, it’s not pizz, think and BELIEVE it’s lemonade. What? You don’t BELIEVE it’s lemonade? You a meat-eating fruit hater!”

    When all along, the reality of the whole process, is pizz.

    Good night, gotta make a living & need to rest.

    MYIQ: heart you always!

  252. TT:

    McCain is a piece of shit.

    Obama is unqualified. Even worse, he has disqualified himself from holding office by his use of the divisive and destructive tactic of false accusations of racism against both of the Clintons.

    I will not support any candidate who does such things.

    Letting McCain win is the bitter medicine needed to purge the Democratic Party of the corruption that is making it ill.

    Abomination + corruption = Obamanation

  253. which is worse?
    being screwed over by an enemy…or a friend?

    while i have no love for republicans, at least the things they do are consistent with their political beliefs for the most part.

    but there is no, NO reasonable explanation for what is going on at the DNC these days. they threw democratic values out the window and became a personality cult. which means it is doomed to fail. the democratic party no longer exists. ex-puma my ass.

  254. Woke up for a drink of water … and decided to get some middle of the night reading and am thinking dont feed the trolls 😉 but seeing them here with the same old lame old tired arguments is proof we are having an influence 🙂
    Love and HUGS


    Campaign bio is his “historical fiction” autobiography with “composite characters”

    Repaints campaign airplane with “Air France One”

    Affixes his presidential-seal-looking campaign seal to gate outside his home

    Creates a silk campaign “flag” that has Indigo et Alizarin Crimson stars and stripes on it

    Summer strategizing and positioning is about whether to allow convention delegates to actually vote

    Convention night “fist bump” knocks runner up candidate off the stage

    Picks his wife as VP because Obama-Obama sounds twice as good

    Some convention concessions labelled “Typical White Food” sell beer and hot dogs instead of wine and crudites

    Keynote speech calls for “class based” affirmative vision in which someday bitter white rural voters will cling to Whole Foods, too

    Immediately after nomination starts work on his “historical fiction” presidential memoir with “composite characters”

    — AsperGirl

  256. […] As SM wrote yesterday, we want a real nominating convention and if necessary we want a floor fight! Not only that, Lanny, most of us are never going to vote for Obama in November no matter what happens. All you have accompished by this move is to show us that we are having an effect on the process. On top of that, Obama now looks even weaker than before. As Michael Goodwin wrote in the New York Daily news this yesterday, Obama blinked and stands guilty of appeasing Clinton by agreeing to a roll call vote for her nomination. That he might not have had much choice if he wanted peace only proves the point that he’s playing defense at his own convention. […]

  257. “Which is elect a Democrat and then go ballistic on the party to change some of these cockamamie rules before 2012.”

    Why in the world would we award the Democratic Party for it’s behavior in this Primary season. Once elected they don’t give a damn what anybody wants.

    Mountain Sage

  258. […] We want a floor fight! (by sm77 at The Confluence) Run! Run for your lives! It’s that crazy cat lady army! […]

  259. […] We want a floor fight! (by sm77 at The Confluence) Run! Run for your lives! It’s that crazy cat lady army! […]

  260. Hillary and Billy, Leiberman Neo-Libs, are cunningly supporting Podhoretz Neo-Con/Neo-Lib Mc-Cain , by alienating Democrat voters against Obama.

  261. Jeugenen –


  262. I like how all the post-menopausal woman are now content to leave the fate of Rowe to the Republicans. You had it your way, who cares about the younger generation? Let them use coat hangers!!

  263. Rowe?

    Do you mean Misty Rowe from Hee Haw?

  264. Made a $25 donation to PUMAPAC today 8/16/08. Hope that helps. Wish it could be more. Times are tough.

  265. Rise, Hillary, rise!!! Denver is just around the corner and the Messiah is dropping in the polls like a lead balloon.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: