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Thursday: How Many Delegates?!?

If anyone tuned into NO WE WON’T yesterday, you may recall that Diane Mantavoulous and I talked about the exact number of delegates that separate Clinton and Obama if Florida and Michigan were included and counted properly. A couple of months ago, I speculated it was less than 100. Diane says Heidi Li Feldman thinks it is more like 59. If that is correct, it goes a long way towards explaining the actions of the RBC members and why the DNC is so desperate to keep her off the nominating ballot today.

59 delegates.

It might even be less than that if the Texas caucus delegates were challenged. Or how about those Nevada caucus delegates of Hillary’s that were poached by Obama? We know that all across the country, Obama picked up delegates through less than transparent and underhanded means. Some of them were Hillary’s *pledged* delegates.

But what’s even more interesting is that in spite of the fact that Obama sent the letter to the Credentials Committee asking that Florida and Michigan be restored to full voting strength, and the media slavishly reported that letter, the Committee has yet to act on the letter’s request because at their July 21 meeting because they were unable to fill a quorum. (or so we’ve heard from 2 unconfirmed sources) In a year when the nomination hinges on the restoration of Florida and Michigan, what POSSIBLE reason could there be for not getting it done toot sweet as soon as the letter was received? Hmmm, think, think, think. I know! If they’re restored and there are less than 100 delegates between them, the numbers for qualifying as the presumptive nominee change! That means the media can stop call him the second imminent coming of Christ himself. He can take his audacity and shove it up his, er, this is a family blog, so I won’t go there but you get the picture.

Yeah, Barack Obama is going to ride the presumptive nominee gravy train right up to the day before the convention. He is definitely following the George W. Bush model of pretending he has a mandate to throw his weight around and take over the party and no one’s going to get in his face or they’ll be run over by his machine.

What I can’t understand is why Hillary stalwarts like Ed Rendell are going along with this. It’s less than 100 delegates. The logic completely escapes me. There is every reason in the world for Hillary to challenge Obama. For DAMN sure she deserves her name on the ballot as a legitimate nominee. The fact that the party is so determined to sit on her 18 million voters when Obama has less than an eyelash of legitimacy to the claim of presumptive nominee is more than just brash and nervy. It’s thuggish behavior of the nth degree and we aren’t putting up with that. Obama either faces us now or he will face us in November. If he waits, we’ll thuggishly defeat him with our brutal votes. There are more of us than there are of the Obama henchmen.

And check this out: Heidi Li has a letter from an Obama delegate team leader who wants Hillary delegates to fill out a web survey with some damn personal questions on it, like, what is your religious affiliation (can they ask that?). If the delegate doesn’t turn in the survey, they get called out at the next conference call. Not only would the Obama campaign have their personal information, it could harrass those delegates from now until the convention.

F^&*ing bullies.

142 Responses

  1. RD,

    What I really want to know is why is Hillary putting up with this crap? Why isn’t she standing up and fighting as she did during the primaries? It’s as if she has turned into a completely different person. I hope it’s because she has something up her sleeve, but I’m starting to have doubts. What is she afraid of?

  2. has anyone called Hillary’s campaign to ask if it is legal for the Obama campaign to demand that delegates fill out a form for the Obama campaign?

    Delegate Paperwork

    Fill out you National Delegate Web Survey… http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/delegate

    This is one for the Obama Campaign, so if you filled it out for the DNC and the State Party, please we the campaign still needs you to do so…

    If you have not filled this out you WILL BE MENTIONED on the call, so please take the time to do so…

    Why should they do this?

  3. BB: I think she *is* fighting back. But they’ve threatened her with all kind of shit like making her political poison in the Senate and funding a primary challenger.

    But the number of delegates separating them and the way he is sinking in the polls makes his threats seem really silly when you think about it. What power does he have at this point? I mean real electoral power? I don’t see it.

  4. With it being so close, Hill will not back down and why should she? Now we have some numbers, one can see why they stole those four MI delagates. Anglachel said at the time, stealing 4? it must be closer thank we think. Indeed.

  5. Congratulation on the 2 million hits, Riverdaughter. You should be very proud of what you have accomplished.

    Thank you!

  6. I agree with RD about Hillary. She was all ready to keep fighting on June 3, and then something happened.

    I think they threatened all kinds of retribution if she didn’t get out and endorse the Messiah.

    I also think she deserves the benefit of the doubt big time.

    I often “wondered” why the “RUSH” on June 3rd to BACK Obama?
    I know we all know most of them; but ALSO, TEXAS had 3rd part”
    **both same day
    3rd-mid-June “60ish” more to be given out.
    “If” I’m correct then I still think those “4” from MI were’nt a “random #”.
    After Hillary “suspended”, I think Chelsea went to the Texas’ June delegate meeting to encourage them to go for Obama?? “I think”!

  8. I don’t know why hillary is backing down. I have not been able to understand her behavior since she suspended her campaign. All I can say is that we need a “profile in courage”….a politician who will put justice, the country and “doing the right thing” above all else.
    Sometimes a person must stand on principle even if if costs dearly. That is what I would love to see.
    If the DNC really follows through with this fascist convention, I really think it is time for the country to have a third independent party. Less than a third of the country is Republican and only slightly more than a third are democrats. Definitely room for a third party. I think Hill could have run as an independent this year and won.

  9. They didn’t just steal 4 delegates in MI, they assigned him all 55 uncommitted delegates.

    4 + 55 = 59.

    And he’s ahead by 59 delegates? Hmmmm……

    RD, congrats on 2 million hits. I was watching with bated breath yesterday!

  10. How do we get this information on the news before the convention. How many delegates, etc.?

  11. the poster: I’m saying that with the MI and FL adjustments she is behind by less than 100.

  12. Good morning,

    I hope who’s on this thread has some computer savvy.

    I am being blocked over at ALEGRE: TRYING to post a comment,

    THIS is what I’m getting:

    BLOCKED: >RIVER something with the HTML,

    and signed by: you @ soon

    ANY CLUE what this is???anyone???

  13. How does the Credentials Committee fail to have a quorum? If a Clinton delegate fails to fill out a form they are ‘shamed’, but the members of the CC can not be bothered to show up for this vital meeting? Could it be that the DNC was afraid that they would not win at the CC, so had their people not show up?? I remember earlier the inside line was that Clinton could not win at the RBC , but that the CC it was another story. If Putin were not so busy committing war crimes in Georgia, I would suspect that he were running the DNC.

  14. I think she got out of the way on june 3 to prove what a piss poor candidate he really is (like she had been saying all along). This summer has certainly proven that to be true. If she had stayed in it everybody would have blamed her for his poor polling numbers. now he’s got no one to blame but himself (allthough he and the media are still trying to blame her). She is actually in a stronger position now because she did suspend in june.

  15. But, but…Dean, with his 134 delegates (in total) didn’t want to be in nomination – so there!
    meanwhile, signs are that we are collectively saying to B0: enough with the speeches already!

  16. Gary,

    I agree with you, but what is her reasoning for continuing to knuckle under to everything? At least she hasn’t released her delegates. I haven’t lost faith in Hillary. I know she is still tough and a fighter. But right now we need her strength. The country needs her–and Bill. We are watching what is left of our democracy go down the tubes.

  17. Hill keeping her delegates under pressure we cannot imagine is fighting. If nothing else , Hillary will force their crimes into the day light, just as she did by staying in ( and winning! ) until June 3rd.
    She is doing all that one person can do….and then some. Hilary has already done more than anyone else could have ….and she’s still in there.

    And as riverdaughter points out, Barry’s ever sinking electoral power…. suddenly that is important. Because now gaming caucuses, making pay offs and thuggish arm twisting will not do it . Electoral power should have been important all along! But in this film flam it was pushed aside with assurances we’ll ” come back.” Well we ain’t and others are leaving . And his inability to win a fair election can no longer be hidden .

  18. What is she knuckling under to?

    I don’t understand what people expect of her.

  19. michelina,

    I’m not registered at Allegre’s blog, so I don’t know what is going on. If I were you, I would find Allegre’s e-mail address and get in touch with her. If Masslib shows up, she might be able to help. She is a regular poster there.

  20. gary makes sense — it’s good to let him sink on his own.

  21. Plural,

    What I mean by knuckling under is that Hillary is allowing herself to be humiliated. She is being forced to campaign for the person who labeled her an her husband power-mad racists. She has raised money for him while he has done almost nothing to help with her debt.

    I’m not blaming Hillary for what is happening, I’m just wondering what she is up to. I have to believe that she still thinks she can pull this out. I know darn well she doesn’t believe BO can win in November, and she knows we need a Democrat in the WH–a strong Democrat.

  22. She did two events for him. Two. Total.

    She could be doing four and five a day, as Bill did for her.

  23. garychapelhill, on August 14th, 2008 at 8:36 am </i

    I agree with that….everyone now knows what a Bo only world looks like….oh lord , not pretty . Battling him with flaggs flying this summer would have hidden that and Hill also wants his voters in the Fall…. being a team player for the last few weeks is part of that.

  24. Thanks Boston, I have to go to work, and they block me from RD, so I’ll keep checking in, before I leave.

    I hate to be paranoid, but it’s so wierd, one minute I was talking to them, and the next: POOF, I couldn’t.

    If masslib shows up, can you ask her for me.

    I’m going to buy a new computer today, this one is way to old.

    check in later,


  25. Party loyalists like Ed Rendell are nearly as bad as Obamabots. He doesn’t want to fight on for the sake of faux unity. It’s ridiculous. Are we the only ones who realize that there will never be any real unity until Clinton’s 18 million voters are heard? If they continue with this, Obama will lose in November. I guess they are willing to take the chance that Obama will squeak a narrow victory. Okay, class time. Have a great day everyone.

  26. annetoo–exactly, his voters would have no reason not to vote for her. She has reached out to them and respectfully spoken of her opponent. On the other hand Obama continues to act as if he doesn’t want our votes. he gives us a reason not to vote for him

  27. Has anyone heard anything on the Arkansas superdelegate who was shot and killed last night?

  28. Michelina,

    I’ll only be here for another hour or two. I’ll see if I can find Allegre’s e-mail for you though.

  29. The article based on Murphy’s interview to Boston herald is out. review here

  30. Hill will do whatever it takes and take whatever shit they dish to keep on keeping on .Because she knows what would happen if they were successful in having her leave in a huff. Others are working like beavers on her behalf….but it all would be pointless if she wasn’t standing there still.

  31. I suspect that a bargain was struck long before 6/3 in which HRC assigned herself to BO’s campaign should she not *win* the nomination. 6/3 was the definitive date and the details of the bargain were hammered out at that time. Do you really think HRC, who campaigned magnificently, isn’t doing everything she can at this time to maximize her chances?!!! I’m sure she is. She’s doing the bare minimum and she’ll let him fail on his own. She (meaning her and Bill) are expecting him to continue to tank. The only question is “how?” How can he be “unpresumptive” if his failure continues and the party wants to back a winner, HRC? That’s the 50M dollar question.

  32. “GARY” Your earlier point is “SPOT-ON”!
    I’m WAITING to see what Hillary comes out with about her debt after 08/20??
    Obama needs to FUTHER IMPLODE a “bit” more!!
    By the way “AngerArtist”; I spoke with my co-puma friend that was with me @ the Sunday Hillary LI/NY event & he also DISagrees with your cousin’s account of how it went.
    Most people waited patiently to meet with Hillary. The people that I saw leaving were ones that I think already knew her. For example: I believe I saw Robert Zimmerman there & he left.

  33. Annetoo – You said it.

    Hillary is keeping her cool. They want her to leave in a huff, but she won’t do it.

  34. Yay – 2 million hits! Woot Woot!

    Gary – I agree completely. I wanted her to suspend in order for America to see Oba-Moi’s fatal weakness as a candidate. Otherwise, he would just continue to blame every single misstep, gaffe and problem on her. Let him take the spotlight and see how he does.

    As many of us predicted, he is tanking. He is nothing without Hillary. His Europalooza didn’t boost him in the polls, the press is turning against him, McCain is mocking him, and the PUMAs and Hillary delegates are holding firm. In response, he’s run off to Hawaii to nurse his wounds. Is that the behavior of a leader?

    Hillary is doing the pro forma things that need to be done right now, but I do think that she should un-suspend right before the Convention. I’m sure she will if the DNC continues to be so obdurate as to try to prevent her from being on the ballot.

    Under 100 delegates! I am just speechless. Amazing post, RD.

  35. It was the state party chair. Evidently the gunman walked into another business, I think it was an office of the Baptist church, and said he had lost his job.

    I was a full-time volunteer at my county’s headquarters for almost 5 years. (I “retired” earlier this year, just too disgusted with the party to give it any more of my time and energy.) There were several times I was there alone and someone who was obviously mentally disturbed wandered into the office. I was really scared a couple of times, but everything worked out. I just got a sick feeling when I heard about it because I had personally experienced a couple of similar situations. Fortunately, both guys just wanted to vent, and then left.

  36. Hello again and good morning friends,,,

    I haven’t had a chance to read everything from yesterday as I spent an exhausting day in the ER w/ my family member who sat down hard on the floor at 6AM (just bruised, thank God) and then we were in the waiting room of the corporate-style group doctors’ office of the Parkinson’s specialist MD for HOURS to find out what we can do to rebuild that family member’s strength, which seems to be waning (intensified P.T., which was MY IDEA two years ago, and ?Tylenol PM). Yeah.

    Anyway, I can’t believe how few delegates there are separating BO and Hillary.

    This is a serious war as we all know. I just want to point out some things to make sure everyone here has heard them—are you all aware that the Arkansas State Democratic Party Chair Bill Gwatney who was shot and killed last night was a HILLARY CLINTON DELEGATE. I am uncomfortable with this “synchronisity”, because I do not think that it was organic, but very much man-made.

    Also, I am actually quite happy with Putin’s actions in the Georgian situation. The Georgian Pres. attacked Little Ossettia w/ the intention of creating a response from the Russians. The economy is failing in Europe and the US and the best way to deal w/ that is to start a World War—a solution that has been used successfully (?) twice before. Putin, whom I have no love for, did not let Russia and HIS PEOPLE living in Ossettia, get spit on, but he also did not let himself get pushed into starting WW3.

    I sat in that MD office waiting room yesterday, watching on the TV there, Bush trying to keep the sense of imminent danger going with his statement of being “unsure if Russia is going to honor the ceasefire.” I was having strong deja vu of being in the initial stages of being psychologically worked on, as part of the American TV viewing public, by George W. all the way to his declaration of war on Iraq.

  37. there are still alot of people who are unhappy with the primaries and don’t know about PUMA. I continually run into some—-and inform them.

    I think that there is more about Obama that we don’t know yet that Clintons know. She couldn’t or wouldn’t bring it out—-hoping it sees the light of day soon.

  38. Oh BTW, the Georgain Pres. and Soros are old buddies from London. We know that Soros has had much behind closed doors influence on and contributing to Obie’s candidacy.

  39. Sugar n’Spice has written about the cages at the protests too. I think the video needs to be seen by everyone who hasn’t seen it yet. Someone in the mainstream media needs to report on this. It is an outrage.

  40. Hi Karolina,

    I’m so sorry about what happened to your family member. Sounds like you had a tough day yesterday. I hope today it better.

  41. Hey everyone – did you see this?

    Clinton’s Name Close to Being Placed In Nomination

    It’s the Atlantic Monthly, so take it with a grain of salt, especially the *ss-licking PrObama spin.

  42. On my delegate conf. call last night, there was actually one lady who was ON the Credentials Comm who said she had not received any information about a meeting. I think she said she had gotten an e-mail that the meeting would be Sat OR Sun. Sounds very unorganized (which, as an anal person, annoys me to no end…something this important needs to be done right!).

    Also, as we start looking at delegate numbers…I think it’ll be interesting. For one, I think people need remember that not all will show up! Some of the superdelegates, i.e. elected officials, may not be coming. Some of the pledged delegates may have financial problems, transportation problems, etc. etc. I don’t think it’s mattered before how many were there. There are delegate alternates, unfortunately they are not always the “same” delegates (for instance, in my CD, the only alternate is for Obama).

    Second, unfortunately, some of the pledged HRC delegates may have been “unified” and may vote for Obama at the convention.

    Third, in order for this to be effective, there needs to be a “campaign” at convention. I don’t know if Obama or Clinton are geared up to manage/count/cajole/etc. all the state/territory delegations is it turns into an “open” convention.

    Of course, all DNC meetings are SUPPOSED to be open to the public (I know, I know, get off the floor and stop laughing…), so we may need to look up when the date/times for Credentials Comm. et. al. are.

  43. madamab, that sounds like major damage control.

    Somebody’s figured out that the Dems are in trouble with alienated voters, but I think it’s too late to be any help.

    Treating Hillary and her supporters with decency and respect in the spring would have worked a lot better.

  44. Madamab,

    That entire piece sounds like total BS to me. Um…Clinton was afraid her supporters would be demoralized if she didn’t get all of the delegates she had won in the primaries? WTF!?

    And the part about Obama always assuming Hillary’s name would be placed in nomination? Give me a break! This sounds to me like pure damage control coming out of the Obama camp.

  45. This is what has concerned me all along about a roll call:

    According to several people who have spoken with her, Clinton originally believed that if her name were included in the roll call on Wednesday, August 27, she would inevitably wind up with fewer delegates than the 1896.5 she earned from the primaries. That would look bad and could demoralize her supporters.

  46. plural,

    I don’t see that as a reason not to put her name in nomination. Frankly, I think she should have kept fighting through the summer. Maybe I’m nuts, but I don’t see how Hillary is gaining anything from what she is doing.

  47. First of all, rulz is rulz, so why was there any need to negotiate?

    Secondly, Obama has already poached some of her delegates, stealing some more wouldn’t “demoralize” us, it would further enrage us.

    Thirdly, the DNC is already de-moralized. What a bunch of corrupt bastards

  48. You think she should have, and I think she intended to. Something happened to cause her to decide to live to fitght another day.

    We don’t know everything she knows.

    If her only aim is being elected president, that’s one thing. If her aim is to accomplish things in the long run (which I think it is), then her actions will be different.

  49. The article based on Murphy’s interview to Boston herald is out. review here

    Another patronizing piece that completely misses the point. I have yet to see one interview in which the basic mission of PUMA’s is clearly stated: to protest the anti-democratic practices of the Democratic Party during this election cycle. They ALWAYS make it seem as if we are Hillary obsessed. Hearing Darragh speak, I would think she is making this the emphasis of all her interviews–are they just ignoring the central point?

  50. I just got back from Europe and obviously have catching up to do. In Europe they hear nothing about Obama’s support of the death penalty–that one really shocked them. Or that he is against gun control.

    I was delighted to find PUMA so strong and that these books had made the Amazon top political books:
    1. The Obama Nation: Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality by Jerome R Corsi
    2. The Case Against Barack Obama: The Unlikely Rise and Unexamined Agenda of the Media’s Favorite Candidate by David Freddoso
    3. Fleeced: How Barack Obama, Media Mockery of Terrorist Threats, Liberals Who Want to Kill Talk Radio, the Do-Nothing Congress, Companies That Help Iran, and Washington Lobbyists for Foreign Governments Are Scamming Us … and What to Do About It by Dick Morris

    I am sending the DNC in my next soliticitation for money for BO a torn half of a dollar since that’s what votes are worth these days.

    I can’t believe the roll call is an issue and Cafferty reported it as if Hillary were the audacious one, not mentioning that every man in recent history with a vote and a half got his name on the rollcall.

  51. Walter Shapiro admitted you thought he knew John Edwards but he didn’t.

    No kidding, that HillaryHating SOB still don’t know shit!

  52. RD at 8:33, just got to work and saw your post. I understand she’s behind by less than 100… my point is that Heidi Li thinks he’s ahead by 59. That’s the exact number the RBC assigned him from Michigan on May 31.

    Sorry if I wasn’t clear; hadn’t had my coffee yet.

  53. Karolina NYC, are you a larouche person? I get emails from them, and the last one says the Georgia is an arm of the british Oligarchy and Soros, and Russia did the right thing. I am so confused right now about what is happening over there.

  54. CNN was so disgusting yesterday—I’m back to boycotting. It was nonstop (on ‘the situation room’ with the ‘best’ political team in the world) -“some are concerned that Hillary’s speech will rally her supporters more and hurt Obama.’

    Anyway, I think I know why—Suzanne M. (big suck up) said that CNN is the only network that will be on the convention floor–if true, I guess that is the pay off .

    I’m boycotting watching everything except Hill and Bill’s speeches. I want their ratings to tank except for their part.

  55. fif—they have to make us sound Hillary-obsessed. We can’t be any bigger, smarter, more outside the box than the personality obsessed teen-age mind we are supposed to be. we just made the WRONG choice of personality to worship.


    plural—I absolutely think that Hillary is trying to help save the country, not trying to make history. She sees the “war” even more clearly than we do.

  56. Totally OT but I just got an EM from my son. They take these guys like a back door draft. Everyone last one of them has been stop-lossed, they give them less than a month to prepare for deployment, then when they get them they have less than a month to retrain for the desert, now they have told each one of them, that it will be another month before they get paid. So what the hell are they supposed to do? My son will be gone two months before he gets a paycheck. Sure the army feeds and houses them, but his car payment, his son, bills that need to be paid and not to mention little things like a soda or a pack of smokes. Jesus!!! I am going broke here paying his bills and sending him a little pocket change.

  57. The whole thing is being very tightly controlled. In prior elections, the program, speakers and events were already available to the public.
    I’ve tried to find out info on several things, including a rally for Obama in S. Florida (where Sen. Clinton is to speak), and the universal response is “Call the Obama campaign office”. Everything is being routed through Obama minions.
    Want to bet that the CC action on the BO request to seat FL. & MI. will be delayed, obfuscated, or denied due to some “rule”?
    The fix is in. SDs, down ticket Dems and delegates are being threatened. Will it work? I sure hope not.

  58. Thanks everyone – I think that article is a bunch of PrObama BS, but I am interested that they decided to publish it.

    To me, it means that Hillary is winning the battle, and that they are trying to put the best face possible on it.

    “Obama has always favored putting her name in nomination.” Uh-huh. Was it just a week ago when Obama basically said he didn’t favor it?

    We have always been at war with EastAsia. Orwell would be horrified.

  59. Mawm, apparently you are more of a Larouche person than I am, as I do not get e-mails from them. I told you in my last comment two days ago answering your question if I believe in conspiracy theories, that I started reading that web site at times of distress and confusion during the primaries, because I was trying to see if there was any truth anywhere about what was going on.

  60. Kim – Meanwhile, Blackwater mercs are getting paid 125,000 a year.

    I hate these Bush b*stards so much. My heart goes out to you and your son, and our other brave troops who are in the same situation.

  61. Kim – I don’t know what we can do for you. I would love to help.

    Also, I heard there is an official group that is helping soldiers with their bills. I don’t know who it is.

  62. Karolina NYC, on August 14th, 2008 at 9:41 am Said: Oh BTW, the Georgain Pres. and Soros are old buddies from London. We know that Soros has had much behind closed doors influence on and contributing to Obie’s candidacy.

    If Barry gets in, his advier, Zig Brzezinski would LOVE nothing more than to take it to Russia . It seems we recognized Kosovov to get this ball rolling . If Kosovov can just declare without the UN and get recognized by the West , well many other places want to do that as well….many brush fires to come.

    Here’s a good article about the domino effect of us
    recognizing Kosovov outside the UN


    IMO. They are trying to set the table for Barry or McCain . Either will serve up the new fight for oil and fresh no bid contracts the Upper Crust want.

  63. Oh jeez! I knew there was a reason I quit reading Zsa Zsa’s Huff&Puff. From New Hampster (quoting The Economist):

    Mr Obama may be ill-served by his hallelujah corner in the press. The Pew survey suggests that the frenzy of media coverage of Mr Obama is creating a backlash. He may also be ill-served by some of his more over-the-top supporters who treat him like a rock star rather than a statesman. “Barack Obama is inspiring us like a desert lover, a Washington Valentino,” Lili Haydn wrote in the Huffington Post. “Couples all over America are making love again and shouting ‘Yes we can’ as they climax.”

    I yell “F*ck you, Obama!” when I climax, but it’s late at night and I’m all alone.

  64. There is much we don’t know – it will all come out. Hillary has my total trust. I feel like she has gone above and beyond what a human being should be expected to do. She has the knowledge, strength and courage to persevere.

    The thuggishness from the very first by the Bzero supporters continues on because they do not have a leg to stand on. Those loyal Dem’s who are rolling over are very disturbing to me(understatement extraordinare), writing to these “loyal” Dems, Super delegates and getting no or nasty replies – unbelieveable. There is only one reason people would be so blind, deaf and dumb -money/power, along with being ethically challenged.

    Hillary can’t do it alone – we must keep fighting to prevent this possible fraud or America as we know it will not survive. The perps doing this have no idea how strong and how numerous we are. They are clueless but it is starting to register with them – they are only now considering the wrathful vengeancethey will be held accountable for. The only good that may come from almost 8 years of Bu$h et al is that Americans will not tolerate another cabal. My flesh crawls when I think of someone like D. Brazile making statements such as “there will be blood”, she wrote me “we shall overcome” – she is a lunatic. The lowness of these people – they must be dealt with.

  65. Kim, trying calling Hillary’s NY Senate office. You never what you might find out. Maybe they know an organisation that can help you.

  66. Mawm-know it is not my business, but watch out for the Larouche stuff. Definitely a screw loose there.

  67. Mawm, I first heard about them the last time that I was home. I picked up pamphlets at a table they set up at the 14th Street Post Office in the East Village. All the people looked like very intelligent, focused, not-self-serving, middle-aged hippies. The had pamphlets about the Bush people and I was so sick of the administration and confused about all things political, that I approached them and took some pamphalets. No one had told me until I was here that Larouche is “very bad.”

  68. Boo Radly, on August 14th, 2008 at 10:23 am

    what you said

  69. We will get by, but it is just such total bullshit. These guys have families and the sad thing is they were told they could get an advance, but that takes thirty days as well, so it takes as long to get an advance as it does to get paid. I will take care of my cub, if it breaks me, but we are supposed to stay upbeat for the troops, how do they stay upbeat when their family is being evicted?

    Blackwater, there is another tangent for me to go off on. Jeremy Scahill of the Nation wrote the book on them, Barry has commented that we need a private army and The Nation is still endorsing. WTF!@#*&()(@*$&@$&)@$*&@#$&*(@#&$*@#&$*

    Sorry but I get really pissed when it comes to my kids. DONT MESS WITH MY CHILDREN. Maybe that is how you should fight a war. Send the mothers, and tell them your kids don’t have to go if you can end this crap.

  70. myiq2xu….all of my co-workers just looked at me because I laughed out loud at your comment. I will carry this strange image of a clown …well nevermind…

  71. Kim I saw this organization for military assistance and their families on tv a while back, seems like a good one. Good luck to you and your son.


  72. kc arnd karolina, I don’t know much about larouche except my mom (in her 60’s) always told me he was crazy. But I think Diane said something very important last night on the radio show. We should be skeptical of everything, but we should also read everything we can get our hands on. Most of us are smart enough to separate the wheat from the chaff.

  73. Larouche’s site is useful for the breaking news section. You will read of items there that are from MSM , but stuck in page 64. There they are upfront. You can glean good stuff without following them down their yellow brick road .

  74. Kim here’s the link for the local chapter. they’re in fayetteville, NC …I think that’s closest to you. btw, what branch is your son in?


  75. Kim, I would love to ask Jeremy Scahill how he can keep endorsing Barry when Barry wants Blackwater and Hill said she would cut them out?? So sorry for what you are going though…

  76. garychapelhill, on August 14th, 2008 at 10:30 am Said:

    Exactly….this whole experience has taught us that! lol!

  77. Larouche and NQ are sites that report news with a dash of crazy thrown in.

    Sometimes more than a dash.

    But most news sources have more than just truth in their recipe.

  78. kc, I don’t know what and who to believe anymore. Watching the MSM lie and smear about Clinton convinces me that I cannot rely on what they say, and even makes we want to seek out the voice of the people they smear to see if maybe they were smearing them because they actually had something to say.
    I have read Larouche’s site, and I agree with a lot that he says. I think we are going through a corporate shake down and the very wealthy are trying to install the candidate that will continue to do their bidding. To me that is Obama.
    LaRouche is pro-Hillary by the way. They look at her as an FDR style Democrat that will fight for working class people.

  79. Thanks so much guys, but I have a really strong family and they are pitching and sending money for him to spend. I have access to his accounts and I am putting it in for him when they send it. His girlfriend (baby mama is the correct term, I believe) has moved in with her family and she has a great job and can keep their bills paid. We will survive. He has also said, I can reimburse myself when he gets paid, but I don’t want to, I want him to have lots of money for a fresh start when he gets home. My savings is dwindling, but he is worth it.

    Gary, he is Army, he says 88 mic or something like that. I know it is transportation and that is not good, because he will be in the convoys moving tanks and artillery to battle areas. It scares the crap outta me.

  80. I remember at the RBC meeting in DC, the Larouche people were there handing out materials. They were smart enough to have signs touting voting rights and the like, so a lot of us took the material. I remember thinking that it was sad that no one from the DNC had any interest in reaching out to us that day. Kinda tells you something.

  81. DownListen, on August 14th, 2008 at 10:25 am

    Kim – sorry, crazy writing. What I meant is call Hillary’s office and see if you can get help.

  82. honora, I’ve got to hand it to the Larouche people too. they also had people in Unity, NH, so they are on the ball….

  83. Mawm, sorry again.

    I do take Larouche stuff with a grain of salt, but many of their takes make absolute sense to me. I don’t see reading their stuff some kind of “guilty pleasure”. I see it as information from an older, patriotic, historical, economic perspective that I can read and add to inner references as I continuously keep building my understanding of the “big picture”.

    We all know that alliances, deals, financial endeavors, etc., etc., etc., know no borders or boundaries, and any even partly credible information on who, in the big picture, is trying to change the global environment that we will have to live in, and for what purpose they are changing it—is valuable in choosing our own behavior to have our own impact on the future….

    I’m sorry if you see LaRouche as not credible, but let me assure you that I evaluate everything that I read and do from any source, because IMO no one is perfect, or has the entire big picture.

  84. From RCP:

    A new Pew Research national poll shows Obama’s comfortable 8-point lead in June now at just 3 points (July 31-August 10, 2414 RV). By a two-to-one margin, voters attach McCain’s name to the phrase, “personally qualified to be president,” while Obama is associated with the more personal attributes, such as “connects well with people.” However, according to Pew, “voters are nearly evenly divided on whether the phrase ‘honest and truthful’ better describes McCain or Obama.”

    Obama 46 (-1 vs. last poll, July 23-27)
    McCain 43 (+1)

    Are the DNC nervous yet?

  85. I just glanced back over the last part of the thread, and am so relieved that many others read the “breaking news” section at the Larouche site. I feel like I am not the only one considering these possibilities that are available for examination.

  86. kim, do you have a link to that poll?

  87. Hillary in nomination

    but a STAGED convention

    Clinton in nomination
    A Clinton aide confirms Marc Ambinder’s report that Hillary’s name will be placed into nomination at the convention, giving her a larger procedural and symbolic role during the event, and offering a look backward at her near-miss primary.

    Despite the occasional tensions both at the tops of the campaigns and among their supporters, the actual convention planning appears to be coming off without major controversies.

    Marc notes that the process could be used to give Clinton a public, symbolic moment to turn her delegates over to Obama.

    also read:


  88. Here is what I wish to believe, whether it plays out in the end remains to be seen.

    Hillary has been up against a tsunami wave of antipathy since last Fall. Starting with the MSM she has faced the most mendacious and sexist coverage of any candidate going in. The Hillary hatred ratched up considerably after February from all quarters, including the superdelegates who called for her to withdraw. Many of those delegates were one time friends and people whose career leap depended largely on their association with the Clinton administration so this had to have surely stung.

    Taking into account what we now know of the duplicity of the DNC in all of this, add a steady drip of charges of ra*cism, and she finds herself almost standing alone against this wave of negativity. Where does one turn for support ? The media had almost certainly dubbed him “the winner”. The DNC sealed the deal on May 31st. Stalwarts had defected from her camp and few had the courage to stand with her.

    For her to appear to “actively” challenge this sham would make her even more vulnerable as a grasping, shameless opportunist willing to dismantle the chances of the first AA candidate in history. The vilification would have been ceaseless. I prefer to think that she has done the “good soldier” bit simply to quell the chorus of naysayers and
    she patiently awaits the chance for the rollcall to take place by working behind the scenes for delegates. It must appear “fair” even though it is her right to have her name placed in nomination. Otherwise they will cut her to ribbons for standing up for something that we all know is justified.
    This is how low this primary season has sunk. To have to fight for a right that you have already earned.

    The Obama campaign led by the forces of dirty money and the Axelrod touch have somehow infiltrated the integrity and decency we have long attributed to the Democratic Party. Hillary is forced to climb Mount Everest just to claim a portion of the victory she has won. She is doing this without the aid of “sharpas”, those who would cry out on her behalf of the injustice at these machinations. We have become those legendary sharpas through the efforts and voices of PUMA. We are not willing to see her make this climb alone.

  89. myiq – LOL!

    I can’t believe what passes for writing at HuffPoop. It’s just an Enquirer without the credibility now.

  90. I am in moderation purgatory with the trolls!

  91. I think all the media is just the Enquirer now.

    The other night I watched a little CNN to find out about the Russia/Georgia crisis, and turned it off when it was just more Cafferty foaming at the mouth and Lou Dobbs making unfounded accusations, with Blitzer playing carnival barker in between.

    It was embarrassing.

  92. […] more uplifting and informative information about the election, read Riverdaughter instead. I don’t know how she does it every day, but my hat is […]

  93. Last night, since I refuse to watch regular news, I checked in to Greta Van Susterens show to see what is going on with the little girl that is missing in Florida.

    In doing so, I caught the last few minutes of Bill O’Reilly. According to Bill, not only are posters at HuffPost trashing Hillary, but the military as well. Moderators allowed statements like “grenade launcher out of your ass” and other horrible things to get through. I think Ariana is losing control of her site.

  94. that ambinder article is so full of shit its unbelievable.

    he always wanter her name in nomination, and she was the one resisting??????

    he always agreed for the need for catharsis??? (even though on his way to hawaii he barked at reporters for even suggesting it???)

    they are throwing out the kitchen sink!!!

    he also says that the only way she could win is if his pledged delegates defected…um not true. wow, what a crock of propaganda! they’ve really gone off the deep end.

  95. Any essay at Huff Po can get published as long as it is in favor of Obama. Any dissent is squashed outright. Same holds true for the comment section. As long as you defend and slobber over Obama you’re in. Otherwise, don’t bother to waste your time commenting. Not allowed.

  96. Aneeto, thanks for the info, I will be reading it, and I completely agree w/ you about Brzienski.

    Mom just woke up so I will not be availabel to comment for a while—I am not weenying out.

  97. #
    Annetoo, on August 14th, 2008 at 10:35 am Said:

    Kim, I would love to ask Jeremy Scahill how he can keep endorsing Barry when Barry wants Blackwater and Hill said she would cut them out?? So sorry for what you are going though…


    This is my concern, as well. Honestly, for me, the real issue is the future of the progressive community in the United States. I’m finding that I simply don’t trust people I used to genuinely trust, like Scahill. So we don’t really have a problem with private armies, with Blackwater, if BO does it? That kind of hypocrisy has made me re-think my “fellow travelers” in fundamental terms.

  98. Whenever a reporter starts filtering/editing the things they report based on ideology or personal likes/dislikes they sacrifice their credibility.

    It’s like being a little bit pregnant. Either you are credible or you’re not.

    The media liked Edwards so they covered for him. We’ve already seen how they treated Hillary and Bill in that same situation.

  99. The polls are interesting today. Rasmussen has Obama 43 to 42% and Gallup still has it at six. One of the (not tracking) had McCain by two points. Note the Rasmussen poll has 15% either others or undecided. That 15% has little or no AA voters, which as these voters break for the established candidates, he will get very little of this vote. Second, if there is such a thing as the “Bradley” effect, which is calulated at 5 to 15%, then Obama is heading towards a McGovern election and a disaster for the Democratic party. Hello, super delegates

  100. Onero fiddles while Rome burns

    Joined by two friends from Chicago, staffer Marvin Nicholson, and some pals from Hawaii, the presumptive Democratic nominee dropped by Luana Hills Country Club in Kailua, Hawaii today for a round of golf – the second golf outing of his week long vacation. The candidate, donned in khakis, a red polo, and a baseball cap, carried his clubs from his Secret Service motorcade to a waiting motorcade of golf carts.

    GORI, Georgia — Russia’s foreign minister declared Thursday that the world “can forget about” Georgia’s territorial integrity, and American and Georgian officials said Russia appeared to be targeting military infrastructure — including radars and patrol boats at a Black Sea naval base and oil hub.

  101. I agree gary it is a total crock, but that said, it does seem to prove that PUMA pressure is getting through!

  102. Hey, everybody. Just 3 points I want to get out there. First, I trust Hillary as one of the most intelligent politicians of this century. So, the question is why isn’t she trawing her hat back in the ring by now. Well, I am not sure she wants to win the nomination AT THE CONVENTION. Indeed, imagine having to appear as the nominate in the Pepsi Center and being booed by 75000 super desapointed/furious Obamots! Not exactly how you want to start… But as some of you might know I got pretty interested in the Birth Certificate (I wrote an article on Meilleur choix qu’obama a blog listed in the coalition writen in French and in ENGLISH) and let me tell you that unless O’birth certificate is a totally legitimate Hawaiian BC recording a birth in Hawaii (yes, Hawaiian BC can record birth having taken place somewhere else!!!), the guy is in a WHOLE lot of trouble. So maybe, Hillary just want to position herself AT the convention to get in the top spot AFTER the convention when the @## will hit the fan.
    Also, little known fact in the US. Putin and Mccain HATE each other. So I’d say that moving in Georgia before a possible MC presidency was probably taken in consideration in Moscow.
    Have a great day all. RD good job yesterday on the radio.

  103. Gary we have an article about Clinton on Oh no’s approach to Georgia here:


    Would appreciate some comments there, and you are quite welcome to cross post it or steal from it here if RD agrees.

  104. Alice, I always thought I was extremely liberal. I subsribed to the Nation, The Progressive, Mother Jones and Vanity Fair. I now have no mags, at all coming. I used to love to watch Colbert and Jon Stewart and Bill Maher, now I watch old movies on TCM. I went to Daily Kos and HuffPost daily, now it is here and okay PAT, I admit it, Perez and TMZ.

    I have been left out in the rain with no umbrella, for an empty suit. The DNC did this and I will not get over it. McCain has my vote.

  105. More Details of Convention Detention Facility posted by Jeralyn at TL – they are ramping up security every day. While we have been blogging these many years our concerns and fears, the Bu$h cabal operated with impunity and there have not been live protests.

    Regular Americans have not voiced their descent in any meaningful way – the media is bought and paid for by corporate and they spew only propaganda that enforces their bottom line. We have been muzzled for years and the thugs have been blatantly threatening from the very beginning. It harkens back to the 60’s – there are young voters who have no clue as to how hard Americans used to fight for the rights of all citizens – not just one “special” group. It is not an an accident the anamorphosis Bzero attracts the vapid – they get to fill in his blanks as they would like it to be. The anaphora meme – hopey changey – appeals to the brainless with no regard to truth.

    Aaaargh – I need to step away from the key board.

  106. Most troubling about he press is their collective approval of Obama. The columnists, reporters, journalists, pundits, have all appeared to be of one voice in their praise. You are forced to find any form of honest criticism or questioning by sorting through sites in the blogosphere whose audience is merely a tiny faction of the voting public.

    These journalists are no longer doing their jobs but have become public relation spokesmen on behalf of one candidate whose background, associations, and experience are suspect. Krugman was one of the few who attempted to keep the race on the issues by comparing competing policies of each candidate but it had little resonance. He was taken to the woodshed each time a column appeared for not praising Obama enough in deference to Hillary better reasoned policies.

    The press is no longer to be counted on for objectivity. They represent corporate interests and we are forced to find an alternative source of information. Sorry state of affairs.

  107. AUGUST 14, 2008, 10:50 AM
    Clinton’s Name Will Be Put in Nomination

    WASHINGTON – Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s name will be placed into nomination at the Democratic National Convention, a symbolic move approved by the Obama campaign in an effort to soothe a lingering rift with Clinton supporters.

    The decision was reached this week, according to Democratic officials, and will be announced later today. It comes after long negotiations on both sides, with many backers of Mrs. Clinton vigorously pushing for her candidacy to be validated by giving her delegates the chance to support her through a roll call vote.

    For Democrats inside the convention center in Denver, as well as the television audience at home, it could create some interesting moments. After the state-by-state roll is tallied, Mrs. Clinton is expected to turn over her cache of delegates to Senator Barack Obama.

    So how will Mrs. Clinton, who is a superdelegate herself, vote?
    Associates say she will throw her lot behind Mr. Obama and ask her supporters to follow suit. To see if it unfolds as the Obama campaign hopes – free of acrimony – tune in on Wednesday, Aug. 27


  108. This is a fairly decent article about PUMAs from the AP.

    We are definitely getting noticed…

  109. Pat J:

    The truth is out there. During the days of the USSR the media was tightly controlled but the truth still reached the Soviet people, it just moved slower.

    The media has been 99 44/100ths% pro-war but people still figured out it was a clusterf*ck.

  110. I see an Obama nomination along the lines of Barry Bonds being inducted into the Hall of Fame. Both are awarded for cheating the system. Just as Barry will always have to live with an asterisk after his name, Obama should have to live with a resonant NO after his.

  111. myiq2xu: True, but the truth came out only after the fact.

  112. Why Is Getting Obama To Disclose His Legal Clients Like Pulling Teeth?

    Barack Obama has made some strange decisions regarding secrecy and records. His state legislative records are missing and may have been thrown out, there are questions about his answers to his application to the state bar (keep in mind the DSCC demanded George Allen release his in 2006

    And The New York Times noted,

    The campaign on Monday barred cameras from a large gathering of African-American civic leaders Mr. Obama attended. It recently refused to provide names of religious figures with whom Mr. Obama met in Chicago and directed some of them to avoid reporters by using a special exit.
    continue reading:

  113. We forced the issue, now they act like it was their idea all along.

    That’s chutzpah

  114. Fox news just announced the Senator Clinton;s name will be on the roll call.
    Don’t know if it will do any good but it is a step in the right direction.

    2 little girls from New Jersey are stuck in Georgia .
    They went there to visit their grandparents for the summer,



  115. What happened to Obama’s call for “transparency”? Sorry, I should have known better than to hold him to any prior statements. I guess I just never “knew him as well as I thought I did”.

  116. Why is everything so secretive when it comes to Obama? Normally you can get everything under the sun and stuff you don’t EVEN want to know about a candidate, but when it comes to him, it is off limits? Are the press so afraid of being labeled r@cist, that they have forgotten journalistic integrity and the rights of the American people to know a candidate and his background. They are going to put this slug out there and every bit of it will come out from the republicans, I guarantee it. But it will be too damn late.

  117. Pat J:

    That’s why the rush to get the nomination over with.

    They want him locked in before people find out the truth.

    If there was no PUMA, Obama would be coasting right now.

    Instead, they are taking on water and bailing like crazy.

  118. We are watching the evolution of a moody, secretive, indifferent, incurious, inexperienced, unqualified, aloof man who aims to lead this country. Just that description alone should raise hackles. We have already had 8 years of a man who has displayed all the same characteristics and we appear to be more than willing to accept more of the same.

    Not sure what “hope” and “change” will eventually look like if he becomes Commander in Chief but so far it does not bode well.

  119. Whenever I see Obama on the golf links in Hawaii I am reminded of Bush doing the same. He almost seems to be saying what Bush always exuded: I don’t give a sh*t!! Ick!

  120. Obama and his surrogates scare the hell out of me. Are they really Democrats?

  121. For those who haven’t caught this gem yet:


    Obama Woos Abortion Foes With Platform Embracing Motherhood

  122. Who cares if Hillary’s name is placed in nomination if it’s only “symbolic”? How humiliating. It would be best at this point for Hillary’s supporters to publicly denounce the Democratic Party and openly support a “Hillary Supporters for McCain” campaign. If Repugs. can be accepted with open arms by Flipper then why not Dems and ex-Dems and Hillary Supporters run into the arms of McCain?

  123. I totally agree Pragmatist, we should just forego the whole damn thing and start supporting McCain openly and loudly. Maybe that would get their attention.

  124. Pragmatist: They will following a Denver coronation if the party itself lets this happen.

  125. There was a bunch of comments yesterday from run-dmc that disturbed me.

    She described how Obama was aloof and uncaring in person.

    It bothered me because there was another politician who was considered a great and inspiring public speaker but who had that same 1 on 1 problem.

    His name was Adolf something.

  126. hillary fan:

    The question is “are they real people?”

  127. myiq2xu: All I needed to know about Obama came through when we read all about his Chicago connection to Rezko and the monies that had been set aside to improve the living standards of those constituents in his representative district. The money was stolen, Rezko got rich, the IL pols found their campaign coffers overflowing, and the people of that district froze their asses off during bitter cold Chicago winters.

    And where was The One? Who knows but he sure as hell was not holding anyone accountable or asking questions or serving his district to any great extent. Turning your back on the people you represent who are from the lowest economic ladder of society and allowing women, children, the elderly to go without adequate heat and provisions is sinful.

    All I need to know about Obama can be summed up in just that one area of his political life. He failed big time.

  128. “….we should just forego the whole damn thing and start supporting McCain openly and loudly. Maybe that would get their attention.”

    I disagree. We need to totally focus on the convention w/ out strategies right now. We need to get Hillary nominated, and by not focusing for the next bunch of days, that’ll slip through our fingers. Electing McCain is same as electing Obama, only McCain’ll be less puppet and more part of the Republican initiations.

  129. garychapelhill, on August 14th, 2008 at 11:11 am Said:

    Onero fiddles while Rome burns

    I am going to be keeping my eyes wide open to see if Russians are not being somehow provoked. And, believe me I have no historic love for Russia, being of largely Ukrainian descent. However, I DO think that we “need to be shown” the goodguy-badguy scenario quickly, with Russia as badguy, of course, to get our video-game, TV reality-show juices going so we can be bucking for the start of the BIG WAR that’ll save the $$$ of the big folks who stand to lose much if the fast-crashing world economy tanks, or is saved by honest and just means (i.e., to them, possibly if Hillary is potentially President).

  130. Karolina, my dream of Hillary becoming President seems to be looking more and more dim. Maybe, if we had screamed this loudly sooner that wouldn’t be such a distant thought. I don’t want a McCain presidency, but look at the alternative.

  131. if hillary does plan to run in 2012, given the inevitable obama defeat, then she can’t afford to loose the black vote again …they’ve done a number with her with the black electorate…

  132. It is the dream of everyone here. Look at 1932 —FDR was NOT supposed to win the nomination under ANY circumstances. I keep the image of a President Hillary strong in my mind, and an image of a free and prospering and peaceful USA & world even stronger. No matter what the MSM says.

  133. Sorry if this is a double post but Lynette Long says her name will be put into nomination.


  134. Looks like HC WILL have her name put in nomination!!! Success!!??

  135. There are a couple of comments above that I want to respond to and then must run off to work. First, and with all due respect to Hillary, this issue has transended her campaign and made her actions from this point on somewhat irrelevant. For me, the real issue has become whether the Democratic Party will adhere to its own principles and treat all of its candidates, including women, fairly and equally. That is why I’m going to Denver to protest and am watching the actions of the DNC regarding the convention so closely. If they don’t follow their own rules and treat Hillary and her delegates appropriately, then screw them. I will no longer be a Democrat.

    The second comment I wanted to respond to was the one about CNN being the only news organization to be on the floor. When I worked as a delegation reporter for NBC in 1984, no news organizations were on the floor, though the big four — ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN — all had broadcast towers where their anchors went on air immediately abutting and looking down onto the floor area. Very few floor passes were handed out to the broadcast outlets or to any print media. To cover our delegations, we were forced to borrow floor passes, usually from delegation pages, in order to gain access to delegates that were beyond the fence. This didn’t present a problem for me. I was always able to gain access when I needed it, thanks to the kindness of one state party chief. So I’m not sure what the DNC is up to or hopes to gain by only allowing CNN on the floor, if that’s what they’re about. Good reporters will always find a way to get access to the delegates they want to interview. And if anything, this tactic will only piss off those media they are hoping to shut out.

  136. Kim: Call your senator!!!

  137. […] when the RBC ruled to award delegates to Obama that he had not won. As Riverdaughter points out on the Confluence the difference between the two candidates of pledged delegates, is probably 59 delegates. Close […]

  138. The fact that we are getting this means they are blinking…but as river daughter says now is not the time to let up ….no, indeed

    OMG don’t you love how Barry tells the press what they can and can’t cover? Maybe Bill should have come up with that idea during the ’90! (snark)

  139. […] Thursday: How Many Delegates?!? (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) A couple of months ago, I speculated [that the difference between Clinton and Obama in pledged delegates] was less than 100. [Others think] it is more like 59… It might even be less than that if the Texas caucus delegates were challenged. Or how about those Nevada caucus delegates of Hillary’s that were poached by Obama? We know that all across the country, Obama picked up delegates through less than transparent and underhanded means. Some of them were Hillary’s *pledged* delegates. […]

  140. If they are ‘letting’ her be nominated, it just means they are confident the fix is in there too. However, I agree about sticking to our current fight. The next step starts after the convention if the result is not satisfactory.

  141. What’s with this Yahoo story that Sen. Clinton will be put in nomination, but ask that her Superdelegates vote for O.? Not that I ever put any credance to yahoo….

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