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Wednesday: Maelstrom

The last time woman took charge

The last time woman took charge

The atmosphere is pretty charged lately, isn’t it? Are you hanging in there? It’s going to get increasingly stormy as immovable object meets irresistable force. The party is so determined to install Obama that is willing to tear itself to shreds before our very eyes to do it. And all this self destruction for what purpose? So Hillary Clinton will never be president? What’s that all about anyway? Will we ever understand why the powers that be want to squash her?

MoDo wrote a column this morning that I did not read because I couldn’t get past the blurb on the opinion page:

Hillary Clinton feels no guilt about encouraging her supporters to mess up Barack Obama’s big moment, thus undermining his odds of beating John McCain.

Ladies, putting aside the lie that Hillary is putting us up to this (she has absolutely nothing to do with our movement), is there something familiar about that sentence? Did it strike a bell deep in the corner of your mind where you have stored an unpleasantry? From personal experience, I can say that without exception, I have never met a man who did not behave as if his reason for being was more important than mine. No matter how supportive they were, when push came to shove, it was always my life that more easily sacrificed and compromised. My wishes and aspirations were a little less lofty. My gifts and talents a little less meaningful and worthy of praise. Nothing short of my winning a Nobel Prize, a Pulitzer and a humanitarian award would be acknowledged as sufficient for a life changing decision to go in my favor. Maybe even that wouldn’t be enough. When push comes to shove, where a man lives, what he does with his time, what career he pursues and what dreams he has will always come first. The only power women have in most relationships, ultimately, is the power to walk away from them. That is, if she wants to be judged a person in her own right.

This is what MoDo’s blurb is saying to me. Hillary Clinton, one of the most accomplished women this country has ever produced, a woman gifted by intelligence, tenacity, fortitude and perserverence, who has more qualifications and experience than either of her rivals, is expected to graciously step aside so her presence doesn’t mess up her less qualified male counterpart’s fading chances of victory. Maureen Dowd *enjoys* reinforcing this notion. She makes her living doing it.

When Hillary made her suspension speech, she said that women hadn’t broken through that glass ceiling yet. What is happening before our eyes right now is the final step to finally breaking through: asserting the right to be acknowledged as a person worthy of equal respect and not backing down in the face of overwhelming odds. If it messes up Barack’s life, who the f$^* cares? Why should she care more about his aspirations than her own, especially when it is *his* actions that are tearing the party apart? I have never seen a party so committed to ruining itself, its reputation, its very chances of survival, all for the sake of an ambitious, unprepared and unscrupulous man like Barack Obama. To watch this happen is like watching someone in the midst of Darwin Award winning behavior. It is both fascinating and horrifying.

We are witnessing the Democratic party, run by a bunch of white males, like Dean, Kerry, Kennedy, Carter, McGovern, Edwards, etc, telling this woman that she is less worthy. Incredible.

On a similar note: Anglachel has started posting again after an unbearably long absence. Today she has a piece that looks at what the Republicans are likely to make of the Democratic party’s decision to ditch its more deserving candidate for its weaker male standard bearer. I mentioned months ago that affirmative action would be our Achilles heel that the GOP would zero in on. Anglachel seems to have the same idea in Barking Up the Wrong Tree. Here is the money quote:

Obama is the candidate against whom this argument [affirmative action] can be deployed most effectively. You Obamacans can scream bloody murder at me all you want, but it is simply a fact. His race makes the argument easier to make, but it is his muddy personal history, his razor thin resume, and his questionable electoral wins that make him vulnerable. As Somerby pointed out, the squalls of “Racism! Racism!” do nothing but play into their hands as well because the Republican argument isn’t about race. It may appeal to racists, but affirmative action can be defeated even in California (in a way that gay marriage probably will not) because it is, at base, about economic competition and rules that deliberately confer advantage to a less formally qualified contestant. When Obama defenders can’t get out of primary campaign mode and reckless accusations of racism (because some well-off white liberals really can be shamed into voting for someone just because he is Black), they do nothing but reinforce the Republican charge against affirmative action; that it is merely promotion of race, it is not about potential or character or disadvantage (In what world is Barack Obama “disadvantaged”?), but about pushing qualified students and job applicants out of the way for lazy non-whites. It is simple for them to work in xenophobia and jingosim, too, by talking about promotion of “illegals” over “citizens”.

The dog whistle here is on behalf of McCain. He’s earned this job and he will make sure that you get what you have earned, unlike these effete Democrats (sorry, that’s always going to be part of the argument) who let themselves be bullied into placating interest groups and handing out unearned rewards. St. John the Maverick will give you straight-talk and an honest deal. On another day, I’ll get a bit more into the “high-minded ways” that Somerby mentions because that, too, is part of the attack on affirmative action, one the Obamacans of Whole Foods Nation seem incapable of understanding.

Just go read it. It’s excellent.

One final note. It seems that we have a resident poet. JohninCA writes many of his comments in verse and I thought I’d put a few of my favorite beauties on the front page today. I’m thinking that we need a poet laureate:

Benjamin Franklin’s opinion was sought
About what his peers in Philadelphia wrought.
“A republic, if you can keep it,” he said,
But which, without vigilance, soon would be dead.
There was no political party back then,
The vote was for whites, and only for men.
The franchise didn’t exist for the rest,
Outside those circles the right was suppressed.

Now there’s one party that plays loose and fast
With the primary votes that were cast,
Four delegates for one man it seized,
Fabricating the results as it pleased.
The price for its perfidy it must now pay,
As insurrection carries the day
Now is the time to be buried for good
Imposture and treachery for which it stood.

Down with dissembling, down the the lies
Down with the party with no other guise
To offer disquieted voters this fall,
Down with cabals where deception is all.
Down with the standard bearer and hack
Who lacking a teleprompter can’t back
Campaign themes of increasing duplicity,
While the nation prays that it soon spared will be.

Denver’s the city– there is the place
Where the party which has well earned its disgrace
Which dissembled with voters, and overreached
And the faith of its loyal activists breached
Must stare aggrieved voters clear in the face
The penalty for its behavior to face
The piper it paid; now it must hear the tune
And face the storm to erupt at high noon.

If I were a Democrat, my heart would break,
For arrogance this man must take the cake,
By fiat, four delegates he’s able to pull,

Now that they’re his, their state votes in full.
With dubious tactics securing the win,
Competition seems to be the only sin,
The thing that’s important, as Joe Stalin notes,
Is not the voters but who counts the votes.

Ludacris opened his mouth all too soon
His lyrics were more than inopportune
His words are the most unfortunate progeny
Of profane hatred, if not misogyny
Their tenor can end in no other result
Than undermining his candidate’s very own cult
While helping the backlash which, in the fall
Might just help McCain to go and win it all.

It’s hardly a reason for much surprise,
That D registration is not on the rise.
The party that put a knife in our back
Now finds that its base is beginning to crack.
It counted on victory in the fall,
But shouldn’t be sanguine about it at all,
The hare and the tortoise, that old fashioned tale
Suggests, in November, McCain will prevail

251 Responses

  1. Morning. Enjoyed the show. Had to go to be before it ended. Listened to the rest today. Nice hearing the voices of “you people”.

    Well done.

  2. M dowd should not be in print. someone should shut her down.

    I cancelled my NYT several months ago…but my father insists on getting the paper here. I glance at the politics every day just to see what the opposition is thinking.

  3. While the tone is not flattering to the Clinton’s MoDo is certainly acknowledging what many here have openly been hoping for:

    That the Clinton’s seemingly still have something up their sleeves.

  4. OOh, JohninCA is Good. I keep reading snippets of his sonnets in the comments section, but this is much better, when you read them all together – really powerful.

    We shouldn’t really waste any more time with MoDo. Except, of course, her column is always the ‘most emailed’ in the NYT. Sad for the NYT.

  5. RD – your posts mean a great deal to me. This election is the most important one in my life time. We have never faced what we as Americans are facing. I have watched in horror what my life long party is doing. It is not just historical because of gender or race but the depth of the problems we face brought on by the criminal cabal of Bu$h. Now that the D party has decided to match Bu$h with someone even lower, there is no Democratic Party.

    Your voice and, thank goodness, some other blogs and posters are the only encouragement we have. We do have heros – we do still have people of intregrity and we will fight on. I have no sympathy for those who rolled over – Party Unity My @ss. JohninCA gets it right.

  6. Why does Angalchel refer to Edwards lover as a bimbo? Why was Monica also refered to as a bimbo? I will never understand that.

  7. MoDo isn’t worth the time expended on her except as a prime example of the banality that the New York Times insists on inflicting on it’s readers. And the number of readers is shrinking even as I type.

    Women’s place as second class citizens is endorsed even by many women. If not, with the many “real” men that aren’t afraid of or threatened by “real” women sheer numbers would force equality.

    No where is the second-class person-hood more apparent to me than when some slimy male critter who couldn’t keep his pants zipped appears with supportive little wifey-poo at his side. One can only guess at the humiliation these women must feel. Or not. Although I can’t imagine any woman wanting to appear in public to reinforce that her hubby has been dipping his wick elsewhere and she is so disinterested in that that she decided to go on television so that she can be humiliated some more.

    I can understand women who decide to hold their marriage together if they can. That’s their business and none of mine. What I can’t understand is their willingness at that moment in time to make their humiliation public. What it says to me is that they are not as important as he.

    Just as RD so brilliantly said. I know she’s brilliant cause she so often says what I’m thinking. 😉

  8. The Anglachel piece is the carefully thought out and written explanation of how the Republicans are going to skewer Obama. Women see a gender issue and some men see an affirmative action issue. In reality there are elements of both, with classism thrown in. I would be very disturbed with the coming McCain assault except that Obama and the DNC did everything but put a bow on it when these issues where handed to them with absolutely no awareness of how they were setting themselves up.

  9. kenoshaMarge said:

    What I can’t understand is their willingness at that moment in time to make their humiliation public. What it says to me is that they are not as important as he.

    I guess I am confused-that statement would hardly seem to be a ringing endorsement O Hillary.


  10. Pardon: should read “of Hillary”

  11. I agree Monica was no bimbo. I don’t know anything about Reilly.

    It takes two to tango. Monica and Reilly just had to do it backwards and in heels – please remember that.


  12. I love your poems, JohninCA.

  13. Carol: As Ed’s “other woman” I will take your word for it.

    Now I will wait to see if Pat, also Ed’s “other woman” has anything to ad.

  14. Peter,

    Did Hillary appear at a press conference with Bill and stand by him right after his behavior was made public? I don’t recall her doing that, but it was a long time ago. You seem to be saying she did.

  15. Yes, JohninCA, what Mawn says.

  16. Good morning, everyone!

  17. I read MODO’s article. She is the most vile, disgusting, jealous person (other than Peggy Noonan) that I have ever seen.

    I am with Mawm and the karma coming home to roost with this individual.

  18. GM, BB.

  19. 16K to 2 million?

  20. MoDo hates all women that compete with her for the existing pool of men in the Universe. And I mean ALL women.
    meanwhile, have some fun watching an Obot fro HuffPo whine that she missed the PUMA conference in DC

  21. Pardon me for either my (1) naivete, or (2) ignorance: I thought that Senator Clinton, rather than encouraging divisiveness, was campaigning for Junior and asking people to unify the party behind him.

    Or did I imagine that?

    Or does Dowd know something I (and many others) don’t?

    Questions, questions, questions…. Can someone help me out here?

    p.s. Hi, kenoshaMarge!


  22. I don’t think the focus should be on the women in these affairs. Yes, they were wrong to mess with a married man, but it was the man in these instances who had the public’s trust. Without their govt position, few people would have cared about the consequences of their infidelity. Sometimes I think I see a pattern where women get sidetracked into focusing on the “other” women, the net effect being that the men get some of the heat taken off of them.

    The bottom line for me is that I see it as immaturity. I came out of the closet when I was 18. I am just about 40 now. I went many years being single and dating a lot of guys. When I met Gary, I knew he was my soulmate, and I never looked back. I can’t even imagine being with someone else.
    I have noticed, however, that a lot of the guys who stayed in the closet until they were in their late 30s always want to date 18 year olds. My theory is that they feel like they missed that time to be young and free and they are trying to recapture it although they never will. Sometimes I wonder if that is what happens to a lot of straight men. Maybe they get married to the first woman they sleep with, and later they start to regret not having “sowed their wild oats”.

    I think they are immature, and fundamentally I believe men are internally weaker than women. If you watch the show survivor, the men usually beat the women at the physical challenges, but when the challenge is one of endurance that requires a steel will and not so much pure physical strength the women usually always come out on top.

  23. No, Hillary never stood on the stage next to Bill while he talked about his affair. She was conspicuously absent from any media coverage. I remember the media actually beating up on her, because she wouldn’t talk to the press.

  24. Unfortunately, the Obama supporters are in full out attack mode such as that exhibited by Dowd. No matter what she does, Hillary sucks. She just plain out sucks. She’s not doing enough to carry Obama, who’s currently vacationing, over the finish line. She’s not raising enough money for him (BTW, what has he raised for her? ____?)

  25. I have to go read Anglchel, because we seem to be on the same wavelength (GMTA)

    I’ve been thinking, but was reluctant to say, that Obama beings back bad memories from the nineties.

    I spent quite a bit of that decade arguing with conservative Republicans about Affirmative Action, which was under attack in SCOTUS and by an initiative here in Big Smoggy.

    Obama is the epitome of what they said was wrong with AA, which was that it didn’t create equality, it created a new form of discrimination.

    They said it perpetuated the r*cial divide in this country, instead of healing it.

    Isn’t that one of Obamanation’s main arguments, that we should vote for him BECAUSE he’s black, not IN SPITE of his race?

  26. Hey, aren’t the campaign money numbers coming out soon? I thought I remembered 8/10 or 8/15 as the date we’d see the July tallies for funds raised.

  27. Rush on the McCain Landslide:

    ” I think there is so much huff and puffery here about Obama, and the bloom has long ago gone off that rose. It happened during the Democrat primaries. Thomas Sowell has a great column. He once attended a course taught by John Kenneth Galbraith, the noted liberal economist, and he came in and did his first lecture to the class, and it was so good they all stood up and applauded, but every other lecture was just more and more generalities on the first lecture, and as the course went on, the class kept dwindling in size and finally people stopped showing up because there was no substance. That’s exactly what’s happened to Obama. His first speech, his first series of appearances: “Oh, man, new, unique, messiah, change, hope, future.” But now there’s no substance. You can revive the old Fritz Mondale question of Gary Hart(pence), “Where’s the beef?” And it’s happening, folks. I’m telling you, it’s happening. There are all kinds of doubts throughout the Democrat Party about this guy, 143 days in the Senate, for crying out loud. He’s a neighborhood activist; he’s a street activist that they have nominated.”

    I have to say that Rush is the one that broke the news to me at lunch the day of the Texas Primary that Hillary would win Texas. I have had a little crush on him since.

    Russia is invading Gori and may invade Ukraine according to Fox. Maybe BO could ask them to play nice.


  28. I think the word bimbo is used as an allusion to Bill’s “bimbo eruptions” of the 90’s. I don’t think it”s meant to be demeaning but descriptive of the “other woman” involved with a politician as coined by the Press.

    Rielle is the name of the woman involved with Edwards.

  29. I do not know, Mawn. I fully agree with these two statments:

    “I don’t think the focus should be on the women in these affairs.”

    “Sometimes I think I see a pattern where women get sidetracked into focusing on the “other” women, the net effect being that the men get some of the heat taken off of them.”

    Oh, and for the record…Pat, Carol, you will never, ever be bimbos to me.

  30. BostonBoomer:

    Today show interview Jan. 1998, despite Bill’s history.

    Personally, I cut any spouse who’s been cheated on a lot of slack when allegations or the truth come to light.

    That said the issue is not with Hillary’s defense(s) of Bill, but rather my confusion at km’s statement.

  31. Pat and I are not bimbos. We are the “power players” in our relationship to Eddy.

    When we say “heel, Eddy” he obeys.

    Our men are trained.

  32. I never thought Affirmative Action should be based on race at all. I always thought it should be based on poverty and access to education.

    What about poor white kids in Appalachia?

    And I totally resent the term “people of color”. I wish everyone would stop using that phrase. I believe it sets up a division between caucasions and everyone else, and I think that is a very dangerous dichotomy to support.
    I wish we could not talk about race altogther, but I understand that there are still issues and problems people need to work out. However, if we must differentiate people based on ethnic heritage then it should be very specific, and it should not create super groups in opposition to one race in particular.

  33. Joan,

    The word “bimbo” has been aroung a lot longer than since the 90s and, believe me, you’re not complimenting someone by calling them, or referring to them as a bibmo! Trust me, I’m from Brooklyn…


  34. Elixir: “No matter what she does, Hillary sucks.” Si.

    OK, ok, I’ll play Devil’s advocate…

    “No matter what he does, Obama sucks” Si?

    No, no I have not been hatched from a pod (yet) and neither Christina/TM are my BBF.

  35. ParkSlope: can you explain to me (I am US culturally defficient) the Brooklyn/Bimbo connection?

  36. Peter A.

    Now I’m confused, so I’ll just drop it. It seemed to me that you were suggesting that Hillary had done what Kenosha Marge was criticizing. My impression was that Hillary pretty much left Bill out there to handle the humiliation by himself, unlike, for example, unlike Gov. Spitzer’s wife, who appeared with him at a news conf. right after the news of his cheating broke.

    Your comment:

    What I can’t understand is their willingness at that moment in time to make their humiliation public. What it says to me is that they are not as important as he.

    I guess I am confused-that statement would hardly seem to be a ringing endorsement O Hillary.


  37. Carol, can I send you my lab for a while?

  38. Upstate,

    I’m just referring to the fact that I had hear the word “bimbo” as early as the late 60s/early 70s in Brooklyn. That’s (conservatively) 15 to 20 years before I heard it anwhere else.


  39. We are steadfast in giving BO credit for everything he has done – both positive and negative. What rubs the DNC is that we are not willing to give him credit for something he has not done or had no choice in – fine and distinguishable terms.


  40. bimbo means baby in italian. I remember seeing a store in Italy called “Mondo Bimbo”: translation: “Baby World”.

  41. By the way – I got up and walked 20 minutes this morning. I may not have to blame my death by commenting on BO.

  42. I don’t remember Hillary’s deer in the headlights moment either. The only thing I recall is walking across the White House lawn with Chelsea, looking like she could chew bullets.

  43. BostonBoomer:

    Oops I forgot quotations-

    kenoshamarge said :

    “What I can’t understand is their willingness at that moment in time to make their humiliation public. What it says to me is that they are not as important as he.”

    My response was to that of km’s above quote. Sorry for the confusion.

  44. Mawm I remember that – they were dying for a taste of some schadenfreude at Hillary’s expense and none was on offer.

    Morning everyone. I wanted to share with you the invite I received in the mail from my representative yesterday:

    Congressman Jim Moran’s 17th Annual Women’s Issues Conference
    Featuring Keynote Speaker: Donna Brazile
    CNN Commentator, author and professor
    Saturday, September 13th, 2008
    9:30 AM – 2:00 PM

    Hey, does that sound like a good time or what?

    MoDo. I can’t read her stuff. It gives me an icky locked-in-the-boudoir-with-the-insane-drunken-nymphomaniac feeling. That’s a feeling I try to avoid.

    Great post this morning RD. The pattern I put on the current dynamics, probably because it is the one I’ve studied, is dysfunctional family dynamics. The Golden Child can do no wrong and anything that happens is not his fault. He takes all the credit and none of the responsibility. Meanwhile the scapegoat can never do anything right. And if the scapegoat did do anything right, the fruit of that would go to the Golden and the scapegoat would be ‘selfish’ to expect anything from his/her own efforts for him/herself. The scapegoat can never win because the whole family is invested in enforcing the ‘reality’ of the storyline. ‘Story’ as in ‘fairy tale’ being the operative concept.

  45. The word bimbo was used in all of the very old films.

  46. Pat is the dog trainer. She has the experience.

  47. Mawm, I thought Italian for “baby” was “bambino?”

    Carol, that’s interesting. You have an example?


  48. Peter A.

    I was hoping you would clarify what your point was, but you just keep repeating KM’s quote. Apparently you did not mean to say that Hillary was public in her “humiliation.” What did you mean then? Now I’m really trying to figure out what you meant and would appreciate an answer. Thanks!

  49. I checked in at Balloon Juice yesterday and it was amusing because they saw the Clinton campaign memos as evidence that Hillary was incompetent and evil.

    My response was that they are much ado about nothing.

    But you could sense that the CDS still burns hot.

    It’s kinda sad, really.

  50. Mawm,

    It makes me so happy to see couples like you and Gary. It’s so clear that you love each other and have so much fun together.

  51. Thanks Park.

    I will leave dog training to Pat, then.

  52. bimbo is short for bambino in Italian

  53. actually a girl bimbo is a bimba, and now in english the male form or bimbo refers to a girl, but if you want to say a man is a bimbo, you say “mimbo”. Confused?

  54. Ok, so I don’t want to break up the bimbo discussion, but everyone knows that Hill is simply one of four speakers Tuesday note, the big keynote is Mark Warner, right? And you are all aware that Monday night is a group of speakers you wouldn’t want to listen to if they paid you, correct?

  55. I see some of the talk on here is focusing on the “other woman”. Alot of the other women are just as much victims as the wife. They are lied to, plied with favors and even if they get the man in the end, he will just cheat on them as well.

  56. I think that what these women do at the very ‘public’ moment that their political or famous spouse admits to cheating is irrelevant. The women often love the men and stand with them to support the men in what is a difficult admission by the men. I have been married for 25 years and I can understand that while I would be in shock and would be incredibly sad, I would be with my husband because we have been a team for most of my adult life. I do not judge these women, they should do what is best for them and for their children in an incredibly difficult time. Never let my husband know that I would not kill him if he ever cheated on me, please???

  57. BB, it is funny because everyone at the conference was calling me Gary. I told them that I think Gary and I are actually the same person only reincarnated to lives that are running in parallel. It is really freaky the similarities in our lives, and the places we have lived. It seems, even though we didn’t know each other at the time, we lived in all the same places. Usually Gary was always about 2 years behind me. I was usually leaving a place when he was moving there.

  58. Good morning folks…just sneaking a few minutes on the computer while on vacation…

    RD: excellent post. I also think you must be brilliant since you write about so many things that are on my mind! Anyway, this is the line that got me:

    And all this self destruction for what purpose? So Hillary Clinton will never be president?

    Indeed, that seems to be their whole motivation. No Hillary. Not now. Not ever. Well, I say: PUMA HAKA! Thus far, I have not been able to convince myself to vote for McCain, but with each passing day, they weaken the resistence.

  59. Honora if it ever came to pass that I mentioned your merciful stance to your husband, I would also specify that he would yet live only because death is too easy a fate.

  60. Bimbo from wikipedia:

    Bimbo is a term that emerged in popular English language usage in the early 20th Century to describe an often attractive, yet unintelligent woman. The usage of this term began in the United States as early as 1919. The 1929 silent film Desert Nights describes a cheap female crook as a bimbo. This word derives from the Italian bimbo, a word deriving from “bambino” (=child) a masculine term gender that means (male) baby or very young (male) child (its feminine equivalent is bimba). The 50’s song “Bimbo”, about a toddler, was one of the early hits for the popular American singer Jim Reeves. Its first usage in English was for stupid men; it now is understood to mean a woman unless modified as male bimbo, himbo or mimbo.

    An older comedy archetype of perhaps more direct resemblance to the bimbo is the dumb blonde —for example, the giggling, naïve characters portrayed by such sultry actresses as Marilyn Monroe or, as she appeared on Laugh-In, Goldie Hawn.

    Sorry, I don’t know how to link.

  61. masslib, how dare you? the bimbo/victimization of other woman discussion was totally super important.

    Oh and BTW, the speaker thingy is just a ruse. Hillary will be O’s VP for ever. Yeah right.

  62. Hey, Carol,

    Thank you very much!

    p.s. I don’t know how to link either…


  63. perries:

    Punishment, Retribution, Reform

    in all things.

  64. Carol/Mawn

    Mawn: “bimbo means baby in italian” and “bimbo is short for bambino in Italian”

    Wikipedia: “This word derives from the Italian bimbo, a word deriving from “bambino” (=child)”

    Another Mc/Wiki controversy?

  65. Mark Warner is being teed up for the next run after Obama. There has been buzz in Virginia for years about Warner as a future presidential contender. I don’t know to what extent that buzz has gone beyond the state level?

  66. There are a variety of reasons a woman chooses to stay in a marriage where the vows have been broken, primarily economics and children. Once is heartbreaking enough but when the numbers start to mount there often is no other recourse then to sever the connection since the rationalization for remaining becomes much too difficult to bear.

    That being said, I have no idea what transpires in someone else’s relationship. I give Hillary tons of credit as her decision perhaps more than anything kept the nation from completely falling apart. Her departure would more than likely have permitted the hounds to strip him entirely of the office. They were out for blood and her decision to remain may have staunched the wound. I can only imagine her own personal agony being played out daily in the media and the conjectures that were being drawn of them as a couple.

    The Edwards story is a little different. How much and when Elizabeth knew is open to speculation. But she knew at the time of his announcement that something untoward had been taking place. Commonsense would dictate that this information would somehow become known and her declaration that the country needed John Edwards to lead is what is most troubling. The candidacy was based on a lie and if you can lie to the nation, and yourself it would seem, then neither one deserves to be cast in the role of victim.

    He cheated because he wanted to. The opportunity presented itself and he took it. It appears that he not only disregarded his vows but continued to do so at his own risk.
    None of the characters in this play are blameless. He should have known better, the girlfriend should have known better, and Elizabeth should have spared her children the possibility that this would erupt. These are grown ups her, not some teens who have yet to face life close up.

    A “bimbo” is one who chooses to engage recklessly in relationships, never assuming or caring what the end result may produce. Although attributable to women as a whole, the term may also be applied to men like John Edwards who appears to have not given much thought to the consequences of his actions. If the term fits, wear it.

  67. Any word on the money raised during July yet?

  68. I want to write a book about all the ways men trick women. I used to just assume that all women saw them, but now I think society does something to young girls that makes them blind to them.

  69. Pat, so Edwards is a mimbo or a Dumbo?

    Carol tells me you may want to help me train my lab?

  70. Warner tried to run for president this year and found zero interest in him.

    I think this keynote is meant to raise his visibility, as the keynote in 2004 did for Obama.

  71. Pat – where does that leave you with ED?

  72. Sorry all. I am being bad. Leaving for a while will be my self imposed PRR (hear me Carol?)

  73. UpstateNY, on August 13th, 2008 at 9:42 am Said:
    Pat, so Edwards is a mimbo or a Dumbo?

    Maybe both. This might make him a combo?


  74. what is prr?

  75. BostonBoomer:

    Hillary defended Bill when the Monica story broke on national TV, despite his history of marital infidelity.

    I am guessing (as we all are re humiliation and what spouses are feeling) that was humiliating to Hillary at the time. As it was to Ms. Spitzer and to Ms. Edwards.

    km’s point seemed critical of these women and what their attitudes must be re their station in life.

    To criticize Ms. Edwards, Spitzer et al. one needs to throw Ms. Clinton in the mix too.

    My point was that, since almost all here support Hilllary and cut her slack re her /behavior/reaction to Bill’s infidelities, they might want to cut Ms. Edwards, Ms. Spitzer et al. a little slack as well.

  76. okay – I’m slow this morning.

  77. peter, Hillary knew nothing about the Monica story in January 1998.

  78. Following edgeofforever’s links, I ended up CQ politics — which has an article about the drive to get Clinton’s name in nomination but contained several inaccuracies. I submitted a comment but it hasn’t appeared. Anyway, I thought I’d stick the link in here to see if anyone else could get past whatever filter they’re using:


    Maybe it just takes a while to appear.

  79. I say put the blame on the actor. If you want to change the nature of the relationship you have with someone, don’t sneak around, make your point to that person, and negotiate the fall out.

  80. masslib- I will not watch even one minute to the convention this year. I will, of course, be heartbroken to miss Michelle and Nancy on the first night. When will Donna get to speak, or will she be too busy twisting arms and the truth? I just hope that the reason that Hillary will not be keynote on the second night is not because she will be the VP. Has her role on the second night been diminished, or had Wagner always been slated as the keynote??

  81. Park, combo is rigth. Maybe that is what Anglachel meant by Edward’s bimbo problem.

    Carol, Punishment, Retribution, Reform. I thought you had coined the term.

  82. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/13/1263150.aspx


    Mark Warner to be Keynote Speaker.

  83. I did, but I can’t remember everything I have coined!

  84. Maybe, then. you are a member of the creative class after all, Carol.

    OK peeps, peace and see you later.

  85. The “Meaning” of America

    “I do not want to play nice with bigots, liars and ignoramuses. I can get mean, nasty, insulting when confronted with idiocy. Mostly, why bother? I have better things to do with my time.”

    Mostly about the media, but the above quote seems to apply to the DNC as well…
    A new one from kenoshaMarge….

  86. Riverdaughter brutal but brilliant post. If it becomes necessary to tear down the “Obama Party,” then so be it. It is time that the Democratic Party remembered what it once stood for and what it must stand for again. The question should not be why are we against Obama, but why isn’t everybody in favor of democracy? It should always be country before party.

    As for Dowd, she is a self loathing woman. She hates all women in powerful positions. Everyday the New York Times keeps people like Dowd employed, it brings down its own stature.

  87. Having “been there and done that”, it is the most difficult decision you will ever face and it hurts. Having said that, I kicked my philandering ex out the door.

  88. I think they are playing Musical Chairs at the convention to see who is still standing when the music stops! I hope BO and MO are the first eliminated!


  89. peter, I am with you. I think we should cut the women some slack. Where does it say that you have to end your marriage if there has been infidelity?

    Having said that, I agree with Pat Johnson. If Elizabeth Edwards knew of the affair when John started running, she should have known that it would get out into the press and cause a lot more problems. BUt we will probably never know what really transpired between them.

  90. I have no interest in politicans’ sex lives, and I expect them (i.e. the government) to have no interest in mine.

  91. mawm at 9:10am…I completely agree with you about affirmative action. It should be solely based on economic disadvantage, not race. Back in the early nineties I had taken the LSAT and was considering law school. I carpooled with a woman who bragged that she had been accepted at Georgetown for law school. Her LSAT scores and undergraduate grades were lower than mine, but I knew my undergrad grades were not high enough to get into Georgetown.

    She was accepted because she had an AA grandfather. The woman came from a wealthy family and looked more caucasian than me. She was in no way disadvantaged by her “race”, but she was going to Georgetown and I wasn’t. That experience made me realize that affirmative action, while well-meaning, was wrong the way it had been set up. Economically disadvantaged people who have the ability and talent to contribute to society deserve a break, but it should not be based solely on race.

  92. Kim, my “offer/hit job” stands (you know how violent/threatening/hate filled we JSND people are)

    Cannot help myself, I am addicted. Need-to-leave-computer.

  93. I can barely even read a snippet of MoDo second hand, she is so repulsive. Her toxic invective (along with Frank Rich & Bob Herbert) caused me to ban the NY Times months ago. I am amazed she has a forum to spew her poison. What strikes me about these insular pundits is that they STILL have no idea who/what we are. As if Hillary has created and guides this movement. And they keep pushing the inane argument that if BO loses, it is all Hillary’s fault. His arrogance, inexperience, dishonesty/hypocrisy, associations, and incompetence don’t have anything to do with it–it’s all Hillary’s fault…again & again. Or racism, of course.

    One positive note about that: they are sensing a defeat and looking for a scapegoat. Maybe they should look for a scape-sheep, there are plenty of those around.

  94. Hmm well I cut all the wives slack because they find themselves in a world of trouble with a bunch of vultures interested in feeding off their pain. There is no easy one-size-fits-all solution and nobody on the outside can know all the considerations that the wife must go through or know all the facets of the relationship. For example, I know I have speculated privately that maybe the Clinton marriage may be wan on the love/romance level, but certainly it has proved robust as an alliance and they have a loyalty toward each other that strikes me as being like comrades in arms.

  95. peter anderson: Obviously you were not paying attention to what I wrote. I give Hillary credit for staying because of the consequences this country may have faced had she decided to leave. She had every reason to walk. I never saw her openly defend or stand by his side while he wallowed through his own self created mess. Her humiliation was not for public consumption since we sucked out every piece of her privacy possible. In some sense she put the country above her own self interest by remaining.

    My point is that Elizabeth chose to go along with the charade knowing he already had cheated. Following the Clinton/Monica debacle you would think that a more careful and reasonable decision would have been made by the Edwards as a couple. The possibility of this coming out should have been the utmost consideration regarding their children but they allowed blind ambition to take over. That I think is the difference.

    Hillary may have been blindsided, Elizabeth was deliberate. You cannot square the two.

  96. plural, on August 13th, 2008 at 9:53 am Said:
    I have no interest in politicans’ sex lives, and I expect them (i.e. the government) to have no interest in mine.



  97. Upstate: My understanding is that this is a pretty prominent family in Oswego. While I value your offer, I worry that since it is such a small little town and you do not know who the other woman is, she might be your cousin.

  98. I agree Pat. It appears that Hillary did not compromise her integrity, but it appears Elizabeth did, in response to whatever pressures or considerations.

  99. Besides that, he just got caught cheating again. Karma, what goes around, comes around. Full circle.

  100. Understood Kim. Peace it is, then.

  101. Sad thing about the Edwards situation is that it appears, he still hasn’t completely come clean.

  102. Kim – since when do relatives get a pass?

  103. It is not so much the interest in politicians sex lives that is at the heart of the matter, it is their willingness to open themselves up to blackmail and also goes to the issue of character. If you are willing to take chances in your personal life and create excuses for your behavior, why should I be willing to accept you will not continue to do the same with the power to lead? Why should I believe you in the first place? Character counts. It is in direct correlation to your decision making. And this applies more so on the national stage.

    I expect you to lead not breed.

  104. If we aren’t interested in their sex lives, the opportunity for blackmail is gone.

  105. Carol: Where is the “package”?

  106. Pat Johnson:

    I was responding to BostonBoomer and her questions pertaining to my posts.

    You are right. I did not read your post, nor take it in consideration in responding to direct questions from BostonBoomer.

  107. The Europeans seem to have come to terms with sex as a reality long ago. I wish Americans would follow suit.

  108. Carol-I would hate to ask Upstate to beat up her cousin or sister or friend.

  109. Pat – you need to read upstream.

  110. Kim – most people relish the opportunity to “take out their relatives”!

  111. I love the concept plural but in a world of People magazine and Gawker readers, I’m not convinced it is feasible.

    Meanwhile as Pat pointed out, it opens them up to blackmail, which brings me back to – what was up with Edwards running for President with a love child on the way. More than anything else, he is a tool. Somebody’s tool, that got used and thrown under the bus.

  112. Kim – as Hillary said, “you can’t choose your relatives, you can choose your pastor!”

  113. perries and pat, I’m not very comfortable with the whole blackmail excuse. that was the reason they used to deny gay people security clearances and top govt posts. it is a red herring in my opinion. an excuse to discriminate.

  114. Pat: I am not so sure about that. Having been married to a serial cheater, I have a little experience in this. My ex’s philandering never interfered with his job. If anything, he did a better job, when he was “pleased.” 👿

    Did he have character issues? Yes, but at work, his ethics were unwavering. I think it is comparing apples to oranges.

  115. gary, I was just going to say that.

  116. Perries,

    If Elizabeth knew, which I would think not, given that she
    didn’t know about the California trip from Mr. Ed Honest. I
    would say Elizabeth simply considered her family and I
    mean her ‘children’ in forgiving him. The two younger ones
    are too young and a divorce and then a possible un-successful
    treatment would place any mother on protecting the children.

    I just hope Elizabeth being a lawyer has made out her will and leaves
    her share to her children directly as it sure would be a horrid
    to find the mistress (in death waiting) enjoy all her work and money.

    So, given that he ‘called’ to let her know, after he realized the reporters caught him, I gather there is still more forgiving and more disclosures that he has to man up to. I think he lied about it being over and the child is probably his.

  117. gary: Right, but don’t you agree that some form of that was used against Edwards to have him come forward and offer his support to Obama following a Hillary win in the primaries? Blackmail is not necessarily the extortion of money, it can apply other subtle forms to coerce.

  118. Carol: **&^@!^34!!!!!!!!!!!

  119. Come on now, surely you guys know that there are women out there who just prefer to look the other way. They are successful and enjoy their life and do not give a fig as long as he is discreet. I have seen it time and time again.

  120. pat, I don’t disagree that it may actually happen, but as a litmus test for holding office I don’t think it passes muster. It would generally be used to knock out an otherwise qualified opponent.

  121. Peter Anderson quit trying to put more into what I wrote than what was there. Actually the person I had in mind when I wrote it was Mrs. Vitter, standing staunchly beside her man while he did his mea culpa. To me that said, and I’m sure there are other instances of woman being publicly humiliated.

    I voted for a supported Hillary Clinton. I don’t support every action she ever took or every word that ever came out of her mouth.

    I am not an Obama supporter. I do “do” nuance.

    Thanks BB and mawn, but don’t waste you time on someone bound and determined to make an issue out of nothing. He wastes all our time. Not worth it.

  122. Anglachel hits another one out of the park. She does not fear expressing what many of us have thought. This candidacy is built on nothing more than an attempt to qualify Affirmative Action and the candidate in this case is less than stellar. She also addresses those inane charges of ra*cism aimed at those of us who resist.

    It is breathtaking to review again the inadequacy of his resume against what is needed in the highest position in the land. She also comes out in favor of McCain better far better qualified. Very interesting article.

  123. Masslib,

    I read your post on Allegre’s blog yesterday. Do you know who the other four speakers are yet? When is Hillary going to fight back against the disrespect and abuse? That’s what I want to know.

  124. Mawm,

    I guess you guys really are soulmates. I envy you a little bit, although I’m really happy with my life right now. None of my relationships have worked out the way I wanted them to. Maybe the next lifetime will be different…

  125. bb: Heard you last night on the radio. It was kind of fun hearing the voices of the bloggers.

  126. Kim,

    I got rid of my cheating spouse too, but it was really just the final motivation to do what I had wanted to do for a long time–gid rid of him!

  127. Pat,

    It was fun hearing your voice. You really do have a nice one.

  128. kenoshamarge,

    I agree it is a waste of time. Thanks for saying so!

  129. One thing you are all leaving out is that men are not the only cheaters! If you looked at the famous Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders poster you would see one of the most prolific cheaters I have ever known. She was a close friend of mine, my son’s other mother, and I literally had no idea what she was up to. We worked together and later lived across the street from each other. It wasn’t until one of her elementary school aged children broke it to me who was coming and going from the back alley that I found out she had a long, hot and heavy history of deceit. Her husband found out shortly afterwards and tried to drag me over to confront her with it, and she still didn’t blink.

    They are still married – 30 plus years.

  130. Yeah, BB, I really do know how it hurts and the hurt just keeps on coming unfortunately. I have not had a really successful relationship since. MEN SCARE THE HELL OUT OF ME. Sorry, but they do.

  131. After several days of “immobilization” I am going out to lunch and shopping with a few friends. Yay! I feel like I have been in prison since Saturday.

    The DNC has once more showed its colors and spinelessness in not allowing Hillary the keynote speaker slot. The question remains: how much lower can they go in their quest to humiliate her? Something tells me they can go even lower given the chance. I just hope that the rest of the country, including some Repubs who may be waivering in favor of Obama over McCain, can clearly come to terms on what this nomination of The One has contained.

    The only victory for me will be his sudden and stunning defeat in November. If anyone deserves “kharma is a bitch” applied to their candidacy, it is this Know Nothing.

  132. Some rare souls in this universe may find a steady and deep cerebral attraction more valuable than a physical one, and there’s no doubt the Clintons are an almost perfect match intellectually, if not sexually. I hear no other married couple proudly boast of having a continuing conversation that began when they first met. And we’re all better off because of it.

  133. Pat:

    Punishment, Retribution, Reform 2008


  134. Pat, have fun and enjoy.

    My fear is that she has not been given the keynote slot because she will be the VP choice. We have to be reigned in and they think the only way is for her to be the number 2 on the ticket.

    They still do not understand that Hillary is not really the issue here. Yes, she was the more qualified candidate, but we are appalled at her treatment. The way the caucuses were leveraged, the RBC’s decision, the way the primaries were stacked in his favor, I could go on and on.

    I think that her being on the ticket could be a deal breaker for many and he could just eke a win out of it.

  135. Sally, I agree. If one thing rang clear as a bell during this primary season, it was that Bill Clinton clearly adores and respects his wife.

  136. Kim: I feel the same way. Actually, men per se don’t scare me, but getting involved romantically with one does. Unlike you, I’m probably not going to get any offers, which is fine with me.

    Sally: Very well stated. Besides long-term marriages get very complicated. From what I can see, Hillary and Bill have something that works for them.

    People who are together for a long time have their lives wrapped up with each other in so many ways. My ex and I stayed friends and still had interests in common. Once we didn’t live together anymore, we got along pretty well. I cared for his mother until she died and I’m very close to his sister. My ex died almost two years ago. His death was very painful for me, even though we broke up in 1989.

  137. RD KickButt Post…..Hats Off To You

  138. I remember articles about how Elizabeth didn’t like Hill
    and that would be a problem if Hill wanted Edwards support….I’m thinking what EE didn’t like was looking in the mirror….it was too close to home.

    But with the major players generally , one of the reasons those in the Upper Crust hate Hillary is exactly because she is a better person than them and they deeply resent it . Who but Hill would not have released the hounds on these people? ( rev Wight / JE affair ) I think it drives them crazy that they can be shitty to her and she’ ll still come to help. The Clintons are in the Upper Crust and yet remain decent , human, nice … and inadvertently show up the rest and not to the others advantage. It also drives people like Dowd crazy that Hill and Bill got there on their own merit. In their mind social / political importance has to be bestowed by the Press or as an inheritance ….and still by the press. You can’t just can come in from “no where” and try to give the lower 80% some help! That’s an unforgivable crime in their minds . Also the press and their owners have been trying to get rid of the Clintons for many years and yet they stay ! Another unforgivable crime!

  139. Is Maureen Dowd seriously psychotic or does she write these pieces while sipping Causmos? Because this one, bad as it is, hardly makes sense. What she is implying is that Hillary and Bill are offstage plotting and planning to takeover the convention and “steal” it away from His Gloriness. An apt and able columnist should be asking the question: how did this paper cutout get to this height on his questionable background and limited experience rather than accusing the Clinton’s of a double barreled takeover?

    And she as she so pointedly argues in her other hit and run columns, why at least is she not bothered by his association with Rev. Wright and Fr. Pfleger who are so anti Catholic in their combined ravings? She is forever singling out her Irish Catholic roots for measure so it is astounding that she lets this one association go without comment.

    Oh well, this is Maureen Dowd. In another century she would be the crazy aunt tucked away in the attic, out of sight, out of mind. As it is, lunatic ravings appear to pay very well.

  140. I think it’s far more relevant whether politicians are cheating on their spouses than whether celebrities are.

  141. Ladies…

    there are men who share your concerns…lets not forget that…

    this struggle is not about sex but about reason and fairness…

    Good poem…

    this latest episode regarding Georgia, and the candidates reactions, has clearly shown me, we need a leader with experience and knowledge that surpasses that of a teleprompter…

    I now will harbor no feelings of guilt in casting my vote for John McCain…

    he is clearly more deserving than Obama…

    although I still wish I could vote for Hillary and that it would count…

  142. Sally Quinn and her ilk in the Washington, DC social set are only too eager to host Obama and Michelle. It’s another “look at me, I am so liberal” event the Clinton’s and Bush’s denied them. Silly women whose only claim to fame are “the ladies who lunch”.

  143. I worry Hill will be VP too….because the only way Barry will not get the full GOP blast is if Hill is the VP nominee ….only that would tie the GOP’s hands if anything could, in that if Hillary is the VP nominee and they bring Barry down , Hello, Madame President Hillary Clinton. They would be in a pickle….and have a problem that a loser like Kerry would not present

  144. I doubt she will be the nominee. Too many hard feelings have erupted between her and his supporters. What happens with the likes of Kos should she be named? Or Huff Po whose contributors have made a cottage industry of denigration over the last 6 months? I kind of suspect he has someone else in mind, either a Biden with foreign policy credentials or a military person who can help shore up some of his deficiencies.

    I don’t watch Olbermann at all but if he ever appears to be softening up his rhetoric in her direction it may be so since he takes his marching orders from both Kos and the Obama campaign. That may be the barometer of how this plays out. After months of Hillary bashing it seems a little far fetched to assume she is the pick. They want to be well rid of her.

  145. The very reason we dislike Barry, his basic nothingness ( nothing good for sure) is the reason the Sally’s and the Mo’s like him so much . Without them , he’s nothing. Hill and Bill don’t need them and this enrages them endlessly . They feel Barry’s unseemly connections don’t matter….only their own importance matters at all.

  146. It seems to me that what MoDo and the many other media hacks, as well as the DNC, fail to recognize is this: As bad as the sexism in the media was, and it was awful, the sexism within our own party is what has my blood boiling. The Democratic leadership’s failure to step forward at any point when it mattered and condemn what was happening was tacit sexism. Their continuing pressure on Hillary not to take her fight for the nomination to the floor, when the right of every male candidate before her to do so was unquestioned, is blatant and overt sexism.

    I have never questioned whether I would die a Democrat before, but I am not at all sure today whether that will be the case. Unless women are willing to step forward and say enough, and slap the party to the floor, this crap will never end. Never underestimate the wrath of a woman scorned.

  147. It is a measure of PUMA’s and other like groups’ success that these attacks from characters like Dowd are becoming shriller. Even Fox news is becoming nervous that Hillary might still come out the winner at the convention. Hillary is in a win-win situation. I see a force at work that’s not quite mortal.

    The e-mails published is a big dud. They just demonstrated Hillary’s commitment and resolve to act in a way that is ethical. Her stance on the issues are carefully thought of as best solutions; attainable and sustainable.

    I pray for this country.

  148. Really beautiful response to Dowds’ continued war on women, River Daughter and a powerful statement on women’s power. It really got to me because it is so true.

    I believe we’re on the verge of watching the DNC tear itself apart. I think Dean/Brazil thought that women would just go along with their plot because of the issues at stake. I think we surprised them because, truely, our power in a relationship is that we can and we will eventually WALK away.

    This may yet spawn a third party.

  149. Hi all——-I have been gone for a few weeks. Have been dependent on the tv news-which is disgusting, so have been scanning to catch up. I visit my brother as much as possible in SC. He has a melanoma (stage 4) and has been fight ing it for a couple of years. It is really a miracle that he is still alive–barely lived through some horrible chemo. Anyway, I don’t want to get into all that.

    I have really missed this place. You people make me feel so much better. Heard something last night-my daughter is in NYC on business and told me that she had dinner with a girl friend. They got onto politics and this woman told her how upset she was about BO ry and that she was going to write in Hillary. Also, told my daughter that she had heard that the LA Times was sitting on some hot story that would end his campaign. I don’t know if this is true or not-but, has anyone else heard this?

  150. Maureen is like TM on steroids… she’s trying hard to be relevant and in with the in crowd. I think we need to write the NY TIme and ask if they really think her writings recently do anything but insult women? I don’t think insulting women is worth that much ink for a nonprofitable newspaper.

  151. Amen, Felizarte.

  152. wow, kc, my love and best wishes to your brother and family, i know what it’s like to be nearly killed by chemo …

  153. Good morning everyone! What a wonderful post, RD.

    The poetry is great.

    If nothing else, we know that what we are doing is changing the narrative, slowly but surely.

    Last night, my husband reaffirmed that he is voting McCain if Hillary is not the nominee. It’s mind-blowing that a man as liberal as he is would say something like that.

    I guess Oba-moi can make you do a lot of things you never thought you’d do.

  154. “From personal experience, I can say that without exception, I have never met a man who did not behave as if his reason for being was more important than mine. No matter how supportive they were, when push came to shove, it was always my life that more easily sacrificed and compromised. My wishes and aspirations were a little less lofty. My gifts and talents a little less meaningful and worthy of praise. Nothing short of my winning a Nobel Prize, a Pulitzer and a humanitarian award would be acknowledged as sufficient for a life changing decision to go in my favor. Maybe even that wouldn’t be enough. When push comes to shove, where a man lives, what he does with his time, what career he pursues and what dreams he has will always come first.”

    Sorry, I am usually on the same page, but I have to call you on this one: it’s not just men – it’s everyone. We humans are, all of us, infinitely more concerned with our own dreams and aspirations than with anyone else’s. It is a rare bird indeed who truly values someone else’s life before their own and we usually give them the Congressional Medal of Honor for it, posthumously.

    I understand the cultural assumptions that you imply are brought to bear on women vis a vis men but the sad fact is that we, all of us, can make our own choices and so, as the song says: “you get whatever you choose.”

  155. Are the Democrats and the American People About to be Mugged by a Con Artist?

    Excerpt: The Obama campaign is now plagued by his best selling utobiographical books. These exercises in mixing fact, fancy and unadulterated fiction would be problematic if simply available in print to opposition researchers, but, adding to Obama’s woes is the fact that he opted to record audio versions of the same two volumes. Americans can now listen to the presumptive nominee celebrating his enthusiastic drug use, delivering inflammatory rhetoric and reciting a string of racial slurs and profanities in his own voice.

  156. After Hillary suspended, Bill told a reporter:

    I slept like a baby last night. I woke up every couple of hours and cried.

  157. dakinikat–thank you and I’m sorry that you have gone through the chemo torture. I think I can really understand how some people just refuse it at some point. My brother has concocted this vitamin regime from research on the net. Maybe it is helping, he’s still with us.

    It is stunning (yes, jaw dropping again) that Hillary has been bumped from the key note. It really does seem like they want to lose. How many voters can they piss off?

  158. They never miss a cheap shot

  159. Just got a call from my son, probably not the forum, but I don’t think you guys mind. He will be leaving for MO on Saturday for training and won’t be going to Iraq until September 2.

  160. Hi everyone.

    This Denver movement creates two images for me. One is Tiananmen Square, where my comments on puma08, to my astonishment, found their way into a report by The Observer.

    The other image is the French Revolution, where the sans culottes storm the Bastille.

    I’m conflicted about that second comparison, though, since that Revolution was the work of Illuminist secret societies. I also think Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette got a bad rap; the French government, many forget, was our original ally that helped get us independence.

    Still, it is tempting to picture Howard Dean and Donna Brazile running this fortress of evil that falls in an epic revolt.

  161. Kim – thanks for keeping us up to date. We pray for his safety.

  162. Please let the fortress fall. Thank heavens and RD for this site. The Obama campaign smacks too much of fascism for me.

  163. Thank you

  164. Will be thinking of you and your son, Kim. Our thoughts are with you.
    Now, best do some work.

  165. Do “those people” (the press and BO supporters) really think that by continuing to put down the Clintons they will make us see the light? What a joke!

    Sexism, ageism, and classism do not pay!

    NObama! NOvember!

  166. To all who are worried about Hillary being VP. Just think … they have Bill lined up to speak before the VP on Weds. If Hillary is in fact VP there’d be a huge amount of attention on the Clintons as Bill literally would be passing the baton to Hillary (I love imagining that!).

    But it’s not going to happen. Obama’s ego won’t allow it. They just want her to give up and die quietly (and give up those delegates before you wither and die, ya B*tch!).

    Anyway, I have visitors for the next week. It’ll be a nice break from constant computer rage. I’m hoping to come back and find that Hillary’s started up her campaign again and is ready to brrrring IT!

    Oh, it’s already bin broughten!

  167. Have you guys seen this?

    Never mind the last days of the presidential campaign. The busiest days for Barack Obama’s campaign in this perennial swing state are likely to be a month before Election Day.

    Ohio has created a window in the election calendar that would allow residents instant gratification — register one minute, vote the next. It’s also given the campaigns of Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain a chance to bank thousands of first-time voters during that Sept. 30 to Oct. 6 window.

    The move will benefit Obama, who enjoys a 2-to-1 lead over McCain among 18- to 34-year-olds, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll released last month. If Obama’s campaign were able to tap into college campuses with one-stop voting, it would add thousands of votes to his tally in a state where, in 2004, John Kerry lost to President Bush by only about 118,000 votes, putting Bush over the top in the electoral count.

    Of the more than 470,000 students enrolled in Ohio’s public colleges and universities in 2006, the most recent figures available, nine out of 10 were Ohio residents, the state Board of Regents said. To register to vote in Ohio, a person must be a resident of the state for at least 30 days immediately before an election.

    Ohio elections officials say they are working out potential kinks, such as questions about whether a vote counts when it is cast or when it’s counted. They also are trying to address potential fears of massive voting fraud, and what effect this influx is going to mean on vote security.

    So if you only have to be a resident 30 days, how do we know, a student doesn’t do a mail in to his home state, then vote again in Ohio?

  168. Carol, I just got all riled up again.

  169. Kim and KC – my thoughts are with you.

    Kim – They ARE going to use election fraud to try to install their Precious! Talk about learning all the wrong lessons…

    Yes, the Chicago Way has now completely taken over the PKFD (Party Formerly Known as Democratic).

  170. Hal, you are in moderation because you are a white supremecist and we don’t want to be associated with that. If you were just commenting that would be fine. I actually don’t find what you wrote objectionable, but the link to your web-site definitely is. We have a lot of African American confluence members, so don’t assume like the OBama people do that our Non-support of Obama equates to us being racist. We want to live in Hillary’s world where everyone is respected, no matter what the color of their skin is.

  171. Check this link out, the writer is essentially saying that Republicans for Obama is non-existent or that we cancel out any hope for it to make a difference.


  172. madamab, on August 13th, 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Its the reason why they don’t seem worried about the polls. cheating cheating cheating. When does it stop?

  173. I read the MODO article and it was just another of her disgusting rants.

    “I have never met a man who did not behave as if his reason for being was more important than mine.”

    After reading that I will take time to count my blessings. My husband is so not that way. After living in AZ for 26 years because he loves AZ he decided I shouldn’t miss my parents golden years and suggested we move back to our home state. He gave up his job, the place he loved all without prompting from me or even being asked by me.

    Mountain Sage

  174. Okay, I’m convinced that this is really some version of 1984, not only do you have to register your cell phone numbers with Obama to learn his vp pick, you can’t get a ticket to the Invesco debacle without at least 6 hours of volunteer work for the Obama campaign … it’s definitely going to be a koolaid drinker only event.

  175. Nice to know that with all the voting fraud problems in Ohio the last few years, the state is being so careless in handing out voting rights, isn’t it?

    I increasingly believe ObamaCo intends to win this Nov by voter fraud and this is why they don’t care about us. Worse, the DNC believes this, and this is the biggest reason they support Obama. As happens in most actions of moral depravity, they rationalize that the other guy does this and they are only returning tit for tat.

  176. Fabulous, RD. It is so good to have places like this to come to since our viewpoint is ridiculed by the mainstream. Good soldiers like MoDo keep the emphasis on Hillary and PUMA as the problem. I see the problem – and where the emphasis belongs – more like how you stated it:

    **Why should she care more about his aspirations than her own, especially when it is *his* actions that are tearing the party apart? I have never seen a party so committed to ruining itself, its reputation, its very chances of survival, all for the sake of an ambitious, unprepared and unscrupulous man like Barack Obama.**

    Obama, the unqualified, is the problem. The DNC, the undemocratic, is the problem. The dishonest process is the problem. That people are resisting and protesting is only right.

  177. Colin Powell told Bush – if you go in you will own it! Some people have no self control. We have all paid a heavy price for little Bush wanting pay back for Bush 1.

  178. Both men and women create the sexism in our society. Men couldn’t be sexist if women stood up to it at every instance. The problem is that you will be called “hysterical” if you do, and nobody wants to be called that. However, I don’t believe you will force a change unless you are willing to be ridiculed for awhile. It is like a wall of fire that you must conciously walk through. BUt once having walked through it, you will find it empty. Who cares if men call you all the names they’ve always called you.
    The biggest weapon men use against women is divde and conquer. Obama used it against you when he told young women that you were old and not to listen to you. You are hysterical and part of the old paradigm. If you shout about it, they say, “See, I told you they were hysterical”. The key that would make the situation pivot, IMO, is not backing down. IF you back down, it confirms what they were saying, but if you stand your ground you give courage to other women to join you.

  179. Peter — I don’t remember Hillary standing up with Bill and defending him when the Lewinsky story broke, though you may be right. I do remember her and Bill being interviewed together in 1998, when he first ran for the presidency and the Genifer Flowers affair came out. That was the interview in which she made her “I’m not just some little woman baking cookies and standing by her man” remark that thoroughly ticked off Tammy Wynette.

    It’s been fun, but I really must go to work now. Later, PUMAs.

  180. mawm – I’m going nowhere. They will have to steal my ID or make me living impaired before I vote for him or anyone that supported this takeover!

    Punishment, Retribution, Reform 2008

  181. Mawm, funny that you use hysterical. Even our word meanings are misogynist. Hysterical is derived from the Greek word “hysteros”, which means uterus. BUt you are absolutely right, we have to stand our ground.

  182. Or maybe it is latin, not sure.

  183. Seems Michelle’s bro is introducing her Monday night? Isn’t that nice; I recall him saying some lovely things about the Clintons.

    And Nancy & Claire are also speaking Monday night. I guess Monday night talk is the going rate for asshole women in positions of power who sell out an even stronger woman of power for a nothing man. Yeh, I’m friggin bitter, and this isn’t the half of it.

  184. Here is where I believe rude comments or de-humanizing names for the “other woman” come from: It is a belief that if the sex wasn’t easy, the man wouldn’t stray… the belief causes the focus to go away from the one with the vow to the one with the offer. Married women fear this could happen to them and dehumanize the other woman in an effort to distance themselves.

    I don’t agree, but I think this is what is happening. I’m sure those using the term “Bimbo” aren’t meaning “baby” – it just sounds a little better than some other names for “easy” women.

  185. I believe hysteria was actually a medical term in 19th century used to diagnose women who, shall we say, were outspoken. somebody who knows better can back me up on this?

  186. Gary, I have to say that you did warn us to avoid Christina. I tried to be reasonable. I tried to reach out to her last night and all I got was bunch of PUMA bashing.

    She even went back and edited one of her comments to me from last night, trying to add additional points of why she thinks she isn’t a cyberstalker (which she is) and threw in some stuff about not publishing my info and that I was “annoying the hell out of her” — which wasn’t there last night. (Who the hell goes back and edits their comments?)

    I think Christina is unstable. She doesn’t want to be reasonable; it’s obvious that she wants to continue her hate-filled mission against anything PUMA.

  187. from wikipedia

    Female hysteria was a once-common medical diagnosis, made exclusively in women, which is no longer recognized by modern medical authorities. It was a popular diagnosis in Western nations, during the Victorian era, for women who exhibited a wide array of symptoms including faintness, nervousness, insomnia, fluid retention, heaviness in abdomen, muscle spasm, shortness of breath, irritability, loss of appetite for food or sex, and a “tendency to cause trouble”.[1]

  188. Yes Gary you are right, however, it was assumed that this medical condition was found only in women and hysteros was the greek or latin word for uterus.

  189. Gary and Kim, doctors still classify medical conditions they can’t diagnose in women as being caused by “emotional” causes–doesn’t seem to be used when diagnosing men.

  190. grl, she is disturbed, just look at her site, hate drips of the page, I can’t even tell if she supports obama, there is nothing positive there at all…like i said serious bad karma. she gives me the creeps. not to mention her ureadable rants full of all caps and bolding and red. She needs to at least take a creative writing course. I only go to keep track of her. I believe she is dangerous, if only because she inspires other people to do hateful, possibly violent things. She is seriously like a little Michelle Malkin Jr. I would avoid engaging her at all costs.

  191. phala, you’re right, according to Obama it might even cause them to have an abortion.

  192. Kim/Gary: think you’re both right. The force of the uterus was considered so powerful that it caused women to go insane.

  193. kim exactly, hence other words derived from it such as hysterectomy.

  194. Kim and Mawm: women HAVE to learn to stand by eachother AND allow for different choices in life for all women.

    I’m not sure how that could be achieved, but when I see how “we” beat up on obama’s wife or Edward’s girlfriend or even the female trolls – we use a sexist slant. And I think “we” are some of the more enlightened, woman appreciating, folks I’ve seen.

    I will certainly buy one of your books, Mawm!

  195. Re the potential of voter fraud, I think that the system used in the Iraqi elections would eliminate a lot of problems and prevent busloads of Obots from driving place to place and voting multiple times on election day. Once you vote, you get your finger painted purple so you can’t go and vote again! One person, one vote, one purple finger!

  196. Democratic Process O8
    Host Leslie Stevens

    Program Sponsored
    The Educational Foundation for the Integrity
    of the Democratic Process
    Asheville, North Carolina

    Connect-the-Dots Part 1

    Connect-the-Dots Part 2

    Connect-the-Dots Part 3





    Watching it made me cry out of sheer joy in finding it and realizing that we have been right all along and we must continue to press on, regardless of ‘assigned trolls’, intimidation, threats of violence and verbal attacks. We are the true Democrats and we have known this all along…stay stead fast and history will note that not everyone was asleep!
    Thank you God and I don’t mean Obama!

  197. Someone please post over at PUMApac as the system has blocked me…thanks

  198. Just a thought OT, wonder about the amount of anti-depressive drug prescribed to females compared to amount of male enhancement drug prescribed to men. Suspect these are the two money cows for drug companies and that does not mean that I discount the need for treatment for depression. It is a serious illness irregardless of sex or age. Addressing the tendency to say “take this pill”

  199. I do not know who will win this election, but I urge everyone to read Jerome Corsi’s book “Obama Nation” before making a choice. Obama has been lying to the American people from day one, presenting himself as one thing and really another. His socialist/marxist/radical associations and ideologies call into question his judgment to be our CIC. Not to mention questions of his birth, citizenship, patriotism, conflicts of interest (Kenya) make his candidacy questionable. Obama seems to be all smoke and mirrors and because of the media’s love affair with him, lack of responsible journalism, his constant playing of the race card if anyone questions him, the public is left to guess about whether or not he is fit or ready to be president. I say no!

  200. Janicen, love the idea!! my fingers were all colors at Easter when my children were younger and this is a whole lot more importand and heaven knows we can’t trust the high tech systems

  201. Purple is actually my favorite color! Does that make me a r*cist?

  202. I don’t beat them up, or at least I try not to. I see a lot of the other women types as victims as well. They are fed the line and buy into it. Last night, a friend of Edwards girlfriend was on tv and this friend stated that Ms. Hunter believed and was told that he truly cared and loved her. Both she and Elizabeth have been victimized in this sexcapade.

  203. Sorry, I meant only the first part of my comment for you and Mawm – then I got all editorial on the whole thing.

  204. Phala, I have no friends in this area due to every female I meet being on antidepressants or pain pills for their ailments. It is absolutely off the charts, how many women are medicated. As for male enhancement, the whole “blue aura” bugs me. I am getting older, I don’t want to appear blue.

  205. Kim, I agree that when someone says “I love you” we want to believe it. It takes some painful lessons to be objective and careful without walling ourselves off. I am sure there are women who are deceitful too but by nature majority want to nurture. Is that sexist? I live in a household of really good men–to the best of my knowledge.

  206. Kim – I agree. I don’t think it serves anyone to blame women for the actions of their men. I don’t know why it’s always the woman’s fault, but it seems that ever since Biblical times, men have been trying to keep women from recognizing their power.

    The PFKD has done that tradition very proud this year.

  207. jj, halfheartedly must agree though. If we did not buy into the BS, we would not find ourselves in the predicament that Ms. Hunter and Mrs. Edwards are in right now.

  208. Kim, that is what worries me. Are we, as a group, being controlled by the pharmaceuticals? I took zanax before an MRI and was totally out of it and made a comment to a friend who said, “I take it every day.”

  209. Oh, and yes, I think many of the “other” women are told the wives are super bad and the man doesn’t love her but can’t leave her for some reason…. and then he really LOVES the other woman and she is everything the wife is not…

    He helps her justify what she is participating in.

  210. The DNC and BO are going out of their way to marginalize Hillary. Now they want to make sure everyone understands that “she is not The keynote speaker.” These people just do not understand at all: They can put Hillary in any time slot and she will still be the KEY and people NOTE it. They can even let her speak in the parking lot without a microphone and people will still hear her. When she “found her voice” after New Hampshire, she found a voice that spoke from her heart. mind and soul and the people heard with their heart, mind and soul too.

    “Let the marriage of true minds admit no impediments.”

  211. RD — this is my fave thing you ever wrote! — well all of them are but this one? Lays the entire argument out. Hillary is US. Her disappointment is OURS. The affirmative action thing? That’s ours two. Because it is true. This old friend of mine likes that guy Ron Paul? He was always a total conservative, and I was always a liberal dem wanting to help the poor — which I did! FOR FREE! What an imbecile!

    He told me that white males had been totally BASHED by all the affirmative action dealys. Neither he nor I got ANY freebies in CA.
    Floods of people have come into the state and taken all the freebies for thirty years…

    Now the state is collapsing under its own weight!

    So, screw affirmative action….

    The face of what affirmative action has done is reflected in the attitudes of Brazile & Co.

    & I’m crossing my fingers that John in CA is my old fab editor!

    That would be John Eviaz (john e) one of the finest pens I’ve ever known—- he speaks in poems! & he is a master of all the forms!

    If you aren’t that JOHN, well– you are a FAB poet too, and have YOU EVER written the exclamation point on this deal. It’s like the perfect compliment on this whole deal — this ludicrous deal!

    bravo x 2.

    I say, all our jobs are going going gone.

    Hillary and McC have the plans. The other guy? He just killed the hopes of every American worker. I mean your basic ordinary garden variety sino peruvian….well you know.

    His wife? Patient DUMPING in CHICAGO!
    It’s TIME to unpack who they are, and Hillary should in no way help them. All these years we have worked side by side as friends.
    Now? The country faces collapse! In our gen.

    I do feel McC is better at looking out for everyone. They effing rigged this against Hillary. Dowdy, Huffy and the rest…

    It’s McC all the way, and he won’t be ludacris about Hillary. Betcha she gets a big position. They are friends! From way back. I read an article in the Times! You know? maybe we do need to reconstruct from scratch around here…my old pal said he was glad I liked McC — he studied Biz/Econ in college — but could never get a job because of the color of his skin. He’s WHITE!

    We are O’s AGE bracket.

    O is USED to getting things as freebies.

  212. I can’t speak on that Phala, for I am one of the women who has totally walled herself off. I get asked out, but when the date approaches, I call and cancel. I realize it is my issue and that not all men are bad; but it is an issue, I just can’t seem to overcome.

  213. An idea just popped in to the old bean.

    We should have all of Hillary’s female delegates slip burkas into the convention in their totes. When ‘the one’ speaks-they should put them on and bow to him. Yes, I am always in sarcastic mode.

    Also, wouldn’t it be great if their ratings were horrible, except for when Bill and Hill speak. A nice spike in ratings at those times would be great.

  214. madamab, I think that was what gary or mawn was saying earlier–that as long as we take on the guilt or responsibility to try to make things better instead of holding those responsible accountable things won’t change. Perhaps the reason we are so tough on each other is that we hold each other too responsible when things don’t go smoothly? just a thought

  215. Suffragettes v. Suffragists


    The term Suffragette was coined by the London newspaper, the Daily News in 1906 — scathingly they referred to the women as not real suffragists. By adding the “ette” diminuitive, it tried to ridicule the women as something small, almost like an imitation of the real thing such as one would compare a kitchenette to a real kitchen.

  216. I no longer read her. She is beyond disgusting and in great need of therapy for CDS (Clinton Derangement Syndrome). She isn’t fit to lick Hilary’s boots.

    Although she is transparent, why any newspaper that pretends to have any integrity would print such tripe is beyond me. At least she isn’t feeding fake intelligence from the White House to the front page to promote a war of aggression. Her words are obvious lies. Frank Rich admitted that he couldn’t wait to get back to read the latest on Whitewater, a scandal fabricated by the New York Times . His columns rivaled those of MO in CDS, but weren’t as petty.

    Write a letter to MO’s boss: public@nytimes.com

    Here’s mine (which I posted before)

    (McDougal was a personal friend, not head of a Savings and Loan, when the Clintons invested in Whitewater. When the Times broke the story, that basic fact wasn’t known by the Times?) All of our taxpayers’ monies wasted on investigating nothing, but at least the American people didn’t get healthcare.

    The best revenge–Hillary doesn’t bother to read MO, she has real work to do for real Americans, and MO has to live with her putrid personality.

    A disappointed subscriber,

  217. So really, we aren’t independents, we are democratettes?

  218. No matter how the Hillary saga turns out, I am fortunate to have lived in a time when legend a legend was made. Hillary and Bill are bigger than all of their attackers put together.

  219. Opps, intro to my previous email ended up in the middle.
    Write a letter to the MO’s boss should be the first sentence.

  220. vbonnair, I would like to follow up on the patient dumping–can you refer me? thanks so much

  221. Felizarte: yes, they are making a martyr of her by going all out.

  222. re: Hillary’s speech. Seem to remember speeches from prior conventions being “vetted” to be sure they fit the theme? Am wondering what controlls will be put on Hillary and Bill’s speeches. Cannot wait for Bill to tell all “next year” as he said in ABC interview

  223. Speaking of the convention is anyone corresponding with those delegates pledged to Hillary to let them know how much we appreciate their efforts to stand up to the pressure on our behalf? It must be a difficult position to be in.

  224. re: pressure—my admiration for Hillary escalates daily and I didn’t think it could.

  225. Kim, you should watch a movie called Brain Candy. I’m sure you’d get a kick out of it.

  226. I am adding this to my mantra if you don’t mind:

    Felizarte, on August 13th, 2008 at 12:54 pm Said:

    “They can even let her speak in the parking lot without a microphone and people will still hear her.”

    I love it.

    Punishment, Retribution, Reform 2008

  227. Fox is talking about the requirement that people who go to Obama’s Speech have to pledge to donate 6 hours of work for Obama.

    They’re asking if we think it’s a good idea.

  228. Katie!! I hope you’re going to call into the show tonight, we missed you last night!!! Do you have some wisdom in post form to share with us??? I have had to actually do real work at my job this morning and haven’t had time.

  229. #
    Kim, on August 13th, 2008 at 12:48 pm Said:

    Both she and Elizabeth have been victimized in this sexcapade.

    I can understand Elizabeth being victimized but how has Miss Hunter been victimized? She knew Edwards was married, didn’t she? She knew he had children, didn’t she? The whole affair is Edwards fault but Miss Hunter is not innocent. She knew what she was doing but didn’t give a damn. She is no victim. Only Elizabeth and her children are the victims.

  230. gary – going back to about 10:15 a.m. above, I went away and then came back a couple of hours later. Loved your insight on the threat of the idea of blackmail being used to discourage suipport for gay people. Thank you – this enlightened me.

  231. This is the first time I have visited here and just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed your piece.

    “The only power women have in most relationships, ultimately, is the power to walk away from them. That is, if she wants to be judged a person in her own right.”

    Yep, this is what I did when I left the democratic party.

  232. […] 13, 2008 by madamab Please do yourselves a favor and read Riverdaughter’s brilliant post, if you haven’t already. It’s got everything: feminism, MoDo bashing and even poetry by […]

  233. KB – Are you going to post? I have something if you don’t. 🙂

  234. I just found some inspiration, but I probably won’t be ready to post until about 4 or so…..

  235. Riverdaughter, you hit the nail on the head with your blunt observation that when push comes to shove. Mr. Man always comes first. I have always known that to work in my intimate relationships and to see it replayed on a national stage is sickening.

    Now that I’m not bailing water out of some man’s sinking boat 24/7 I can actually get things done. Like run a marathon, raise my kid, and get really good at what I do for a living so I can make some decent money.

  236. Defiant Clinton Women Refuse To Support Obama
    Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild doesn’t look like a radical.

  237. 3 shots fired at democratic headquarters in arkansas – per Fox.

  238. New post up now. 🙂

  239. The more I see of the the New democratic party the more I am glad I left it.
    This New democratic party is so unamerican and racist it should be banned in the USA.
    Has anyone seen any position that they take that is good for America?
    This is a unsteady time in world history and the New democratic party is pushing a racist – anti-american – know nothing on the country.
    They do not like Senator Clinton and their puny opinion is supposed to be more important then the good of the country.
    I don’t think so.
    The New democratic party can never be trusted again to do the right thing for America or her people.



  240. Okay, I emailed the times:

    Dear Editor;

    I have finally lost patience with Maureen Dowd’s op-ed pieces. Through out this entire election cycle her debasement of Senator Clinton has been more than over the top. She has gotten to the point where I consider her pieces to be about as well thought out as a virgin blogging for the very first time. They are not humorous, they bring no new perspective or fact to the table, and they certainly are not journalistic. I read many opinions that diverge from mine and appreciate the American tradition of dissent. She needs a spot on a.m. radio with the likes of Rush Limbaugh rather than ink and column space in the New York Times. Just when I think she’s gone over any possible apex, she does it again.

    I have subscribed on line since the inception of the online Times. I live in New Orleans and rely heavily on your coverage here to bring our plight to the U.S. and world at large. I’ve always admired your paper. Your op-ed pages have been my favorite for years. Please put her on leave until after the fall and reconsider her association with the paper

  241. katiebird —- smells more like fascism each day. sick. if this were a good prez? NQ was first to report that he was selling! his speech on race and that he had trademarked his name, plus the words HOPE CHANGE….no American Prez has EVER done this before — and the media must have to pay to use his licensed brand?

    phala in NC:
    http://www.obamatruth.org and search the G about O and the avian flu virus? something funny with the stock deal

    also –RD & Co. I didn’t realize how much everybody hangs out in the comments so please allow me to apologize if I missed something I was supposed to respond to? I usually read all of you everyday since RD started this up (thank God) then head to NQ for the hard news—- then do research and then write mine! yikes!
    people are just now searching for things I wrote many moons ago–my sources are all solid.

    how I got started on this deal was that I wanted HILLARY & I couldn’t even get a YARD SIGN! Which infuriated me. The paper I read came out for O! Huffypoo was O, Dowdy was O, TV was O in fact is was so all about O I was like whf? And then I met the FAB RD! and look! WOW. I am so proud of RD! She built this! And then PUMA arrived! and WOW

    so I’m like a researcher, analytical, psychotherapist, ex NYT person myself — so I don’t hang around and chat?

    Please forgive me if I screwed up? RD had to tell me what a troll was! and how to put movies in–
    and she is the FABBEST of the FAB!

    hugs! john e, I hope that is you, and PJ should come here? These people are so FAB around here. NQ too!


  242. I read the MoDo piece when Corrente referred to it last night.

    Simply incredible. The Times is being derelict in their journalistic duty by not having a warning:

    Notice: Complete bullshit follows the byline. Proceed at your own risk.

  243. Newsweek has an article about Rielle Hunter this week:

    If you read it you’ll see she really IS a bimbo.

    The money quote from the article: “When I next saw Rielle weeks later, she told me that she’d been fired by the Edwards campaign. She seemed perfectly cheerful about it, but she proceeded to tell me a tale of woe—how the campaign hadn’t understood her, how they’d ruined the Webisodes, how they’d impeded her vision and how Edwards himself had failed to defend her. The chief villain in this saga was Elizabeth Edwards. “Someday,” Rielle said, “the truth about her is going to come out.””

    Edwards himself is still dodging the issue but I have a feeling this affiar was still ongoing up until he got caught in the hotel bathroom.

  244. RD, you have every right to your experience and your hard won conclusions about life. I applaud you for putting them out there with such clarity.

    As a man who has lived for 68 years and experienced my own pain and misunderstanding — who has faithfully supported Hillary from the beginning — I was taken aback by your no exceptions statement about the gender I was born into.

    You said . . .

    “I can say that without exception, I have never met a man who did not behave as if his reason for being was more important than mine. No matter how supportive they were, when push came to shove, it was always my life that more easily sacrificed and compromised. My wishes and aspirations were a little less lofty. My gifts and talents a little less meaningful and worthy of praise.”

    I know from experience that someone’s reason for being has little to do with their gender. I will confess that our culture teaches us to accept the underlying hurtful assumptions of your post, and that I have been guilty of falling into this trap at times. But I do confess my failures and I greatly respect and support the women in my life.

    RD, you are an exceptional woman and I appreciate you so much. I causes me pain to think that if I met you face to face I would be reduced to “just a man” who would never be willing to sacrifice himself for an important woman in my life. I feel I have done this many times for my wife (you would, of course, have to ask her if that is really true).

    My loyalty is 100% for Hillary. I see so much maturity in her and executive ability — many times more than in BO. At the base, we agree about her. I sense that our life experiences have caused us to agree to disagree about gender issues.

    You are completely right in a stereotypical way in our culture, and certainly in most cultures in this world. I have seen it played out so many times just as you described. It gives me pain for you (please take this in a good way, the way it is intended) that you must take such an absolute stance. It is going to take both loyal Hillary women (the majority) and loyal Hillary men (the minority) to stand firm against the cabal of Obama, Dean, Pelosi and Brazile. MoDo is a woman too, the last time I checked. A gentle reminder that it’s not just us men.

  245. Gordon, great post, well said.

  246. Re: Senator Clinton’s response to Bill being a skank

    I love both Clintons, but do not imagine either of them is perfect. I have zero tolerance for infidelity in my own relationships, and think those who do tolerate it are rather more foolish than less. But as far as I’m concerned, either or both of them can go right ahead and be idiots in their personal lives, as long as they continue being brilliant in the public arena.

  247. girly men prefer Obama 8 to 10 *w*

  248. […] in the midst of Darwin Award winning behavior. It is both fascinating and horrifying.” Read the rest here. Warning: her post is not for the weak at heart feminism-wise. In my opinion she hits the nail […]

  249. […] Wednesday: Maelstrom (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) MoDo wrote a column this morning that I did not read because I couldn’t get past the blurb on the opinion page: “Hillary Clinton feels no guilt about encouraging her supporters to mess up Barack Obama’s big moment, thus undermining his odds of beating John McCain.” Ladies, putting aside the lie that Hillary is putting us up to this (she has absolutely nothing to do with our movement), is there something familiar about that sentence?… I have never met a man who did not behave as if his reason for being was more important than mine… This is what MoDo’s blurb is saying to me. Hillary Clinton, one of the most accomplished women this country has ever produced, a woman gifted by intelligence, tenacity, fortitude and perserverence, who has more qualifications and experience than either of her rivals, is expected to graciously step aside so her presence doesn’t mess up her less qualified male counterpart’s fading chances of victory. Maureen Dowd *enjoys* reinforcing this notion. She makes her living doing it. […]

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