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    • The Law of Equal Treatment
      Last Friday I wrote an article on the idea that if a society has a rule or duty, it must apply to everyone in the applicable situation, no matter who they are, even if it’s someone you love. It was interesting to me that most of the commenters disagreed. Perhaps this is my fault in choosing the famous example of a German general executing his own son for aba […]
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Sunday Afternoon Open Thread

For those scared off by the headline (or the geese & the earlier photo of Obama) the conversation in this morning’s thread has some wonderful ideas about the future of PUMA and a possible spin-off future party.  Take a look at those comments and let’s continue that conversation here.  Maybe we can surprise the Conference Attendees when they get back with some exciting ideas of our own!

Around and about:

Our friend Charles Lemos at By the Fault covers everthing from Senate races to developments on the War in Georgia.  Many of us depend on Charles for news covering a wide range of subjects.  If you haven’t visited lately, today would be a good day to return.

Madamab’s Oooh, nuance! is more than her fabulous one-act plays.  Today she’s talking about Obama’s weaknesses in foreign policy.  And it just starts with Iraq….

At Tennessee Guerilla Women they want Hillary’s votes counted.

And finally, Joseph at CannonFire has totally debunks the Birth Certificate story.  If that is story of interest to you please read his post and share it far and wide.

Let this be the last time this topic is discussed at The Confluence.  Just as we didn’t discuss The Reverend Wright issue until it was exposed by the public distribution of the video tapes, let’s not discuss the many fringe rumors here.

There are any number of substantive reasons for opposing Barack Obama’s nomination.  Let’s stay focused on them.

51 Responses

  1. Katiebird,

    I totally agree with you about the birth certificate. It’s just silly. I can think of a hundred other reasons why Obama isn’t fit to be President. That is just a red herring.

  2. Kenya is a sleeper that can hurt Obama. His suporting of a radical such as Indinga show every poor judgement .

  3. #
    bostonboomer, on August 10th, 2008 at 1:41 pm Said:


    I totally agree with you about the birth certificate. It’s just silly. I can think of a hundred other reasons why Obama isn’t fit to be President. That is just a red herring.

    I second that. This story is seriously annoying in my view…

  4. For anyone annoyed by the BC story — please post a link to Joseph’s story. It stops the story dead in it’s tracks. There’s nothing there and it CERTAINLY shouldn’t be a PUMA story. Joseph is a PUMA and we should be known for debunking it.

  5. Charles, it seems really inappropriate that he’s in China throughout this. But, the guy didn’t cut short a vacation for Katrina so this isn’t anything new for him. It’s funny that Obama seems more like him than McCain does….

  6. “let’s not discuss the many fringe rumors here.”

    Oh man….you are no fun….;)

  7. There’s a fairly-heated two day old discussion going on at the Denver Post on “whether Hillary’s delegates should be allowed to vote.”

    It’s a great framing of the question because the issue isn’t
    “Should Hillary and her supporters insist that her name be put in nomination despite the fact that Obama has already won the nomination and thus disrupt the fragile unity of the party?”

    but rather

    I think that question says it all.


  8. Charles not that I heard. But, except for that Internet Radio show last night there hasn’t been much news. And I missed the first hour of it.

    Upstate, I don’t mean to be a party pooper. But, I think there is plenty to talk about without the fake stuff.

    Speaking only for myself, I’m looking forward to hearing excerpts from Obama reading his (Grammy Award winning) memoirs about his past drug use. I think that’ll be a hit in this falls ad campaigns.

  9. Thanks Katiebird re: birth certificate. There are plenty of real and honest reasons to be against Obama, lies and Swiftboating are GOP tactics. TexasDarlin has a track record of pushing ANY storyline that is negative on Obama (eg Sinclair) regardless if it is nonsense.

  10. “He has a problem with Hillary’s more fanatical women supporters, and this is a way to help with that,” the official said.”

    In reference to Chelsea introducing her mother at the Convention….oh the symbolism, oh the magic…

    Am I a fanatical woman?

  11. 63K hits from 2 Million. Not bad at all.

  12. Wow, 3 or 4 days? Maybe a week. And the statistics have been very steady. If there was so damn-much Unity around would there be that much to say? Or that many people reading it?

  13. this is pretty cynical & maybe totally off base but is Bush doing mostly nothing in order to keep a low profile thus minimize GOP election losses

  14. What say everyone re: NYT’s op-ed piece, “Calling All Votes”?

  15. Obama: messiah in his own eyes

    Obama’s campaign speeches reveal that he has finally convinced himself that he is, indeed, another “messiah.” Month by month, his rhetoric has grown from confident, to tyrannical. “I will issue rebate checks to help you with the price of gasoline…” he says, with no regard for what Congress might say.

    “I will tax the oil company profits…” as if some celestial power anointed him with the authority to impose taxes when and where he sees fit.

  16. “He has a problem with Hillary’s more fanatical women supporters, and this is a way to help with that,” the official said.”

    The voters are always to blame. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to your New Coke Democratic Party. The beatings will continue until morale improves..

    How stupid do they think we are? If stagecraft and symbolism orchestrated by party insiders were all it took to win our votes, we’d already be in Obama’s camp.

  17. Pastor Manning is right.

  18. Excuse me. I just finished reading the NYTimes story linked above and I’ve got to vacuum my brain off the floor. I’ll be back in a little while…

  19. Incidentally, a very enthusiastic woman from the DFA called me a couple days ago asking for money, and I gave her quite an earful.. she went on and on about how great the 50-state strategy was, and how we needed real progressives in office to stop the Republicans, and I asked her then why didn’t we nominate one, and why did they make up the results of the Michigan primary if they believed in a 50-state strategy, and why did they delay Michigan and Florida resolutions until it was too late to affect the process.

    Then she launched into a thing about how she was a nurse and universal health care was so, so important, at which point I said one of my immediate relatives is a nurse, I know exactly what is happening with the uninsured, and my relative works in a part of the country where Obama didn’t even bother to campaign or ask for votes. And that furthermore I saw his Harry and Louise ads that cut the legs out from under the case for universal health care, so what was she talking about, because he clearly didn’t support it? She noted my concerns and didn’t even try to get $$ from me after that. Hmmph.

  20. THE ANA supported HILLARY pffft

  21. dg…you were just a “fanatical woman” with too many ideas….you should just have donated and be happy about it.

  22. I’ve just had time to read through about half of the last thread, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. A number of people suggest calling a new party the Constitution Party. Well, guess what? There is already a third party by that name, and it is definitely Right Wing:


    I ran into them when I was researching a possible 3rd party to change my registration to. They even have a presidential candidate. A pro-life pastor. How that reconciles with a “Constitution Party” I don’t know.

  23. Oh, I know, I know….O will reject and denounce the Atlantic article and he will urge his supporters to rally around H and “they” will become best friends forever (politically speaking) and it will be all wonderful at the convention and …

    Oh never mind.

  24. There’s a comment on the Denver Post article in which the poster says

    “So, please, women, shut up and do something constructive.”

    The poster (who claims to be a woman) is trying to convince us to vote for Obama.


    There’s also aninteresting “she didn’t win the popular vote” meme on the thread.

  25. Sounds like fun. Not sure aobut the BC either. But Joseph Cannon thinks TexasDarlin is a con? hmmm

  26. Absolutely the ANA (and most nurses) supported Hillary. I am an SEIU member, but the rank and file nurses did not choose to supprt Sen. Obama -that was Ansy Dtern’s bright idea.

  27. Make that Andy Stern.

  28. If this has already been seen, forgive me. It’s not mine so don’t ban me, but it made me laugh. And I wanted to pass that along.

    Michelle’s whitey tape, found!

  29. I think there’s the strong, strong whiff of rat in the birth certificate story.

    But, kb, thanks for re-focusing without scolding or condescending. My new pet peeve is condescendingly scolding blogs.

    I dunno, I just can’t get into the bread and circuses when things look so dire:


    Credit crisis triggers unprecedented response
    Worst debt turmoil since Depression sparks government action

    Sometimes I wonder if the big money, big top infotainment perps are living in the same country that I am. Or the same dimension?


  31. oh yes speaking of racebaiting according Donna Godzilla bo just does that to make everyone more “comfortable” now isnt that a revelation???

    OF COURSE OBAMA injects RACE into the campaign video http://hotair.com/archives/2008/08/03/brazile-of-course-obama-injects-race-into-the-campaign/

    “”Donna Brazile admitted the obvious on ABC’s This Week earlier today, but she tries to pin the blame on John McCain anyway. After George Will points out three different times in the last six weeks that Obama has brought up the race issue, two in which he accused McCain and the Republicans of using it, Brazile allowed that Obama had done so — but only to make everyone feel more comfortable about it:””

  32. swanspirit — I admire Brazile’s drive to prove that she is the stupidest, meanest, and most disingenuous person on planet Earth. She is absolutely thorough and never allows a chance for anyone to think otherwise.

    Let’s all applaud her efforts and make sure we stay out of her way!

  33. Alice, I don’t like condescending or scolding either. If language like that ever seems to come from me, it’s more than likely a slip of the fingers or a misunderstanding.

    Or I’m talking to a troll — in that case anything goes!

  34. Despite the false accusations made by Obamanation, PUMAs are not racist.

    We are judging Obama by the content of his character, not the color of his skin.

    The content of his character, and the lack of content in his resume.

  35. Sweet:

    Obama — escorted by Secret Service and accompanied by a few campaign staff and a pool of reporters and camera crews — arrived at about 4:10 p.m. yesterday and spent an hour with his 85-year-old maternal grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, who helped raise him. He was not accompanied by his wife, Michelle, and two daughters.

    What a loving grandson! What a united family….

  36. Gee, he spent a whole 30 minutes with her? I see he really had some quality time for the person who “helped raise him”. He must be very proud of himself. Did he secure her vote just in case?

  37. I thought that was his intent on going to Hawaii, to spend time with the grandmother and show off the two girls since she was getting so much older and time was short? He is such a total a**wipe. It may be that at her age she may not be up to all the hoopla, but what harm if she is introduced to these two kids anyway? And where was charming Michelle in all this? These are two of the most self involved people on the planet. This speaks volumes for me. He pays lip service at most.

  38. I think are larger picture of Obama is being developed. He had no time to meet with the wounded, could not be bothered to attend that meeting in NO with Tavis Smiley, refused to attend the MLK Day celebration, backed off the Town Hall meetings with McCain, disowned Rev Wright after 20 years, hardly knew Rezko, left his Chicago constituents to freeze, and now Grandma gets a shot of indifference.

    This displays how he will treat the nation should he win in November. With little interest if any. The man is all about himself. I am beginning to think that he is devoid of any real emotion. Unless it is all about him, forget it. He does not need any of “those people”. Had Hillary referred to his supporters that way she would have been branded as ra*cist but somehow that does not apply to him. Go figure.

  39. I’ve never commented on the BC before but here’s my one and only comment: Why doesn’t he produce it and stop all the speculation? Everyone here has had to produce a certified BC for yourselves or your kids to register for school, get a driver’s license, get a passport, etc. He wants to be POTUS and I don’t think it’s too much to ask for him to do what ordinary citizens have to do. McCain produced his, Hillary would produce hers in a heartbeat so why not Obama? It looks like he has something to HIDE since he hasn’t done it and allowed this cloud to hang over him. Doesn’t pass the smell test. BO: Produce it or drop out before you damage the Dems any further.

  40. Joan: He is Barack Obama. He can do anything he wants! He was promised he would be president, he has been patient, so don’t ask him for the birth certificate because you aren’t getting it. You are just being one of “those people” so quit it.

  41. What about this story?

    I’ve been hearing rumors about voter registration fraud associated with the Obama campaign. And I certainly witnessed some suspicious behaviour at our Kansas Caucus.

    I share the same questions the author of that post raises about the usefulness of the tactics. What do you think?

  42. Tho the Kenyan dual citizenship may be unfounded, there are two other Kenyan topics which I find disturbing.
    The first is the Kenyan school named after him, and to which he still hasn’t given a cent:

    At that historic homecoming in August 2006 Obama was greeted as a hero with thousands lining the dirt streets of Kogelo. He visited the Senator Obama Kogelo Secondary School built on land donated by his paternal grandfather. After addressing the pupils, a third of whom are orphans, and dancing with them as they sang songs in his honour, he was shown a school with four dilapidated classrooms that lacked even basic resources such as water, sanitation and electricity.

    Heassured teachers… “I know you are working very hard and struggling to bring up this school, but I have said I will assist the school and I will do so.”/


    and the second is Paula Abeles’ article about Odinga:

  43. katiebird: They had some election commissioner on this morning for Fox who said that it is rampant across the country, but on a larger scale this election season. They are signing up convicted felons, people with made up addresses, nursing home residents, etc. He said the same handwriting is appearing continuously on some cards as they make up names for registration.

    When you chase people down the street in order to get them to register it becomes a circus. A serious minded individual can go to the DMV, a local library, City Hall, or any other truly designated place of registration if they have the desire. Running all over malls and standing on corners is ridiculous. Most of us will sign just about anything to get the person out of our faces.

  44. Just some Sunday musings perhaps appropriate to little. I listened to Hillary campaigning for BO even though I really did not want to do that. It was great to hear her again and see her interaction with the crowd. I think maybe she is definitely smarter than I am because she is winning these BO supporters; they are getting to like her and see her in a whole new light. I am guilty of selling this woman short throughout this election cycle. When she was down early in the race, I did not expect to see the enthusiastic, warrior woman with the great smile and seemingly boundless energy emerge and take over. I did not expect to see her win and wow the white male, working class. And now, I did not expect to see the acceptance slowly developing with the Obama core. I know she has not captured them yet but I think she is going to do it and win back the support of AAs. Right now that is the best thing for her to be doing because it is a long range strategy for winning and I am just too short sighted and into the misery of the moment to see it. We should give her the courage and support to keep this up because as long as she stands up for us and the principles she advanced in the primary, which she is doing, she is still our best hope.

  45. KB another link on voter fraud in Virginia


    and for another point of view:


  46. It seems more likely that it would be more Michelle’s reluctance to spend time with her.

    Pat, in the article I read he referred to his kids as “those children” which seems a little detached to me.

  47. Katiebird,

    Do you not agree that Obama was adopted by his stepfather Lolo Soetero when his mother married him and brought him to Indonesia? If so, do you then not agree that his original BC would have been sealed by the state of Hawaii and a new birth certificate would have been issued with his new name Barry Soetero according to Hawaii state law? If so, then what is Obama doing proclaiming that he is still Barack Hussein Obama when his birth certificate has him by his other name? What are the legal ramifications for using a false name in subsequent legal documents and running for office if there is no court record that he ever changed his name back? If according to Indonesian law his citizenship changed over to that of his stepfather’s and that he lost his US citizenship only to somehow reacquire it later and then travel to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport when he was in college, then why does Arnold Schwarzenegger not have the right to run for president, given that he is a dual citizen? You may continue to dismiss all discussion about his eligibility to be POTUS based on his murky citizenship status as “fringe”, but remember that people here also dismissed as outlandish rumors of Edwards’ affair until he was forced to admit it because of efforts by the National Enquirer to pursue this line of investigation. I agree that Obama was probably born in the US and that his first birth certificate shows it, but that does not make him automatically a US citizen given the fact that his real father was a Kenyan/British Colonial subject and that his mother was underaged according to the law at the time.

  48. Joe,

    We don’t have investigative bloggers prepared to fly around the world requesting Adoption Court Documents and the other necessary information to confirm your suspicions. If it’s so obvious that Obama has duel citizenship then that WILL come out.

    I happen to think it’s one of the tragedies of this election year that much of the information that makes Obama unelectable is pretty much unknown to voters at this time. Isn’t the Primary Season supposed to be our chance to get that information and decide what’s relevant?

    So, ‘m not saying the subject is of no interest. It’s exactly the sort of thing I like to read while I’m waiting in the grocery line.

    When the documents from the Adoption (if it happened and the documents exist) are released then we might have some interest in talking about the implications of that. But, we’re not close to that point yet.

  49. Even if it is true that Techdude is not who he says he is, that doesn’t change the fact that blank COLB’s were stored online and then a fraudulent COLB with the number covered up was posted on DailyKos and Obama’s offcial website. It also doesn’t change the fact that Obama won’t produce a legitimate COLB with a state seal like John McCain did.

  50. Jangles
    Agree with your Sunday musings.I’ve always put my trust (*hope*) in the Clinton’s, HRC will prevail,and we’ll get our party back.
    PUMAS Kick b#^t in Denver.

  51. For anyone annoyed by the BC story — please post a link to Joseph’s story. It stops the story dead in it’s tracks. There’s nothing there and it CERTAINLY shouldn’t be a PUMA story. Joseph is a PUMA and we should be known for debunking it.

    Did it yesterday. Agree, total waste of time and brain cells.

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