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Lying to the Delegates – Lying to America

Apparently I should have addressed my morning post directly to Howard Dean. Heidi Li had this to say about his recent attempts to mislead voters about the current situation regarding efforts to get Hillary’s name entered for nomination:

Clearly convention fever is beginning to hit the DNC (the Democratic National Committee) and the DNCC (the Democratic National Convention Committee), and not in a fun way. Delegates across the country are working to figure out how to enter a candidate’s name into nomination via a petition from the floor at the Convention. They report the dissemination of information from the DNC that they regard as an effort to interfere with their efforts to produce a proper petition that Senator Clinton could, if she chose, sign and thereby have her name placed into formal nomination as a candidate for the Democratic Party’s nomination. The delegates – and not only Clinton delegates, but ones pledged to Senator Obama as well – appear to be frustrated because they cannot get anybody at the DNC to clarify.

(emphasis mine)

She then goes on to report in excruciating detail her multi-hour attempt to find someone at the DNC who could clarify the rules:

At this point, the press officer told me that he could not comment on the Call to the Convention or my understanding of it or even the DNC’s or DNCC’s understanding of it because the interpretation of the Call’s procedures was a matter for the “Secretary’s office” and he did not know enough about the Call to the Convention to answer my query as to the accuracy of my understanding of the document. He asked if it would be ok to transfer me to the main desk where somebody would then transfer me to the Secretary’s office. I told him that when I had just called the main desk all I got was an auto response and suggested he might be better off just giving me a direct dial number or transferring me directly. He replied that there would certainly be a receptionist at the desk. I gave him my name and number and said that of course he should feel free to transfer me but that perhaps he might like to pass my contact information along in case I could not get to the Secretary’s office. He politely took down my information and transferred me. Once again, the automated menu. I hit the button for the press office again and a different press officer answered.

Now look, we all know that the Democratic leadership supports Barack Obama. But would it be such a HUGE favor for there to be some transparency in the process of nominating our Presidential candidate? Why is it so shocking that Hillary’s 18 million voters would like to see her delegates vote in a roll-call at the convention?

This was an historic primary season: The first Woman Candidate to make it through the Primary competing against the first African American to make it through the primary and they ended in a virtual tie. Some say (I say) that if it wasn’t for the mishandling of the Florida and Michigan delegations the result would have been quite different.

Well, not content with mangling the primary process Howard Dean is now attempting to corrupt the convention itself. Heidi Li goes on to say about the process:

I told him that my understanding of the Call is that there are two ways a candidate’s name can be entered into nomination, one, the way Senator Obama’s name will apparently entered, which is at the discretion of the chair of the DNC, and the other via a nominating petition from the floor, signed by an appropriate group of accredited delegates and approved by the candidate the petition seeks to put into nomination.

It’s insulting enough that the chairman of the convention isn’t planning on entering Hillary’s name in nomination. But that delegates should be verbally maligned by our party chairman for their efforts toward a truly open convention representing the actual primary votes — Well that’s just flat-out disgusting!

Nominate an unqualified, illegitimate and unelectable candidate at a closed convention? HA! I say, Just Say No Deal!

[UPDATE] Read more about this at Corrente and ABC News.

196 Responses

  1. Check this out ev1
    Does this sound familiar

    This will be considered off-topic — but it isn’t. I thought I’d share this letter which was sent to the Editor of the Times-Dispatch by a gentlemen who escaped Cuba in the 1960’s. His words come from the experience of believing in someone, without taking the time to know who they really are, and the consequences that followed:

    Subject: Celebration

    From Richmond Times-Dispatch, Monday, July 7, 2008

    Dear Editor, Times-Dispatch:

    Each year I get to celebrate Independence Day twice. On June 30 I celebrate my independence day, and on July 4, I celebrate America ’s. This year is special, because it marks the 40th anniversary of my independence.

    On June 30, 1968, I escaped Communist Cuba, and a few months later, I was in the United States to stay. That I happened to arrive in Richmond on Thanksgiving Day is just part of the story, but I digress.

    I’ve thought a lot about the anniversary this year. The election-year rhetoric has made me think a lot about Cuba and what transpired there. In the late 1950s, most Cubans thought Cuba needed a change, so when a young leader came along, every Cuban was at least receptive.

    When the young leader spoke eloquently and passionately and denounced the old system, the press fell in love with him. They never questioned who his friends were or what he really believed in. When he said he would help the farmers and the poor and bring free medical care and education to all, everyone followed. When he said he would bring justice and equality to all, everyone said, ‘Praise the Lord.’ And when the young leader said, ‘I will be for change and I’ ll bring you change,’ everone yelled, ‘Viva Fidel!’

    But nobody asked about the change, so by the time the executioner’s guns went silent, the people’s guns had been taken away. By the time everyone was equal, they were equally poor, hungry, and oppressed. By the time everyone received their free education, it was worth nothing. By the time the press noticed, it was too late, because they were now working for him. By the time the change was finally implemented, Cuba had been knocked down a couple of notches to Third-World status. By the time the change was over, more than a million people had taken to boats, rafts, and inner tubes. You can call those who made it ashore anywhere else in the world the most fortunate Cubans. And now I’m back to the beginning of my story.

    Luckily, we in America would never fall for a young leader who promised change without asking, what change? How will you carry it out? What will it cost America ?

    Would we?

    Manuel Alvarez, JR.
    posted by
    Kathleen | 08.06.08 – 2:48 pm | #


  2. Well, if he’s a delegate — we need his vote!

  3. Can the delegates on the floor abstain from voting if her name is no entered? Or vote present?

  4. Voters’ Trust for McCain on Key Issues Growing
    John McCain is now trusted more than Barack Obama on nine out of 14 electoral issues tracked by Rasmussen Reports. The latest national telephone surveys find that McCain has the biggest advantage on the war in Iraq, by a 51% to 39% margin.

  5. The people’s vote is not valued by the neo-Dems. Take note; dreamers wake up. Remember in November.

    Roosevelt’s DNC is dead; it is denied a proper funeral by the neo-Dem leaders who pretend it still exists in hopes that we won’t notice and unite behind their inexperienced Flim-Flam man. Chicago-style politics instead of the will of the people have decided the outcome of the party’s election process. Clinton victories include AR, AZ, CA, FL, MI, NH, NV, NJ, NY, MA, PA, PR,SD,TN and WV, but the neo-Dems have forced the end of her campaign and do not want her name entered at the convention for a floor vote. A process historically allowed for those with fewer votes.

    Clinton won the popular vote and earned more primary votes for President than any Democratic candidate in this country’s history, but the new DNC will have none of it. Before its Denver convention, the new DNC has decided to consolidate its party machinery with Obama’s campaign and move its operations from Washington DC to Chicago. The Denver convention will be nothing more than a celebration of Barack Hussein Obama and whatever he believes in August.

    This is about much more than Hillary Clinton; it is about country, principles and beliefs, and what will happen to that we hold most dear if this nation elects another untested incompetent to the highest office in the land. Even if Hillary were offered VP; she would have no control over this megalomaniac and his Chicago machine. This is about the role of our leaders and their responsibility to citizens in a democracy.

    Democratic Party leaders worked together to circumvent the will of the people and empower an inexperienced, far-left candidate with questionable friends and associates. Others in high position allowed it, did nothing to stop it, and by their silence condoned it. We must be diligent and never forget that there are forces that want to dilute or even dissipate our collective power.

    Remember in Novenber to remind the neo-Dems that actions have consequences. Like the Republicans, they cannot be trusted. We must have a President who will ensure the checks and balances of power that are founders valued. Remember in November; it is time to take our country back.

    Clinton or McCain, 2008; there is no other viable option for our country.

  6. Hmmmm. . .
    Invesco DNC tickets: 2/3 for the Rocky Mtn states and
    1/2 to Colorado

    Follow the money . . . to Colorado

    Rich Liberals Vow to Fund Think Tanks
    WaPo Sunday, August 7, 2005; A01
    “As alliance officials see it, many liberal groups are designed to protect an agenda that was enacted by past Democratic majorities — as opposed to generating new ideas and communication strategies to win support from voters who do not belong to labor or other traditionally Democratic constituencies.”

    Democracy Alliance

    Progressive think tank takes wing

  7. Carol: Lanny is a good guy in this fight. He was Hillary’s champion at the RBC hearing. He’s in a tough spot and for the most part, I agree with him. Obama has to do more than just talk unity, He has to act it.
    So, would you mind going easy on Lanny? Irreverence is OK but we don’t want to let our passion get the better of us.

  8. Well said!

  9. Breaking News: Sen. Hillary Clinton Seeks Democratic Convention Voice
    Sen. Hillary Clinton Not Ruling Out Having Name Put Up for Vote in Denver

  10. Colbalt,

    I guess this means f*ck the women, the poor and working class!!! Now what’s the difference between the Neo Dems and the Repubs?

  11. I will not vote down ticket if Hillary’s name is not put into nomination and a vote taken by delegates.

    The Democratic party died for me the day the Rules Committee met (sent my registration card to Howard Dean with PUMA written across it in red letters) and I will spread the ashes election day if she is not put into nomination.

  12. fred,

    Several of us heard Hillary speak last Thursday, and the video was posted
    her on The Confluence shortly thereafter.

    Now we have to guess what Hilary’s going to say online, or wait
    to hear it ourselves. In the invitation she mentioned how we
    all have to help elect Obama President, but he needs to get
    himself elected. He gamed the nomination, and now he needs
    to game the election. The media is behind him, what is wrong here?

  13. CB, yes but MSN tried to remain silence on the video now ABC is aring it……ABC, so that slaps the Daily News Down

  14. Kendall Johnson: Yep. It’s this attitude reflected
    in their patronizing attitude toward “low-info
    voters.” It’s the old 80/20 rule. Spend 80% of
    the time with high cash donors and 20% for those
    other people.

  15. I am frightened what hillary will say I am very worried she will say “This PUMA nonsense must stop we must all get on the Obama bus I do not support you!”

    I would be so wounded…


  16. Michael, it isn’t totally ABOUT Hillary or what she wants.

    The Democratic Leadership has apparently rewritten the rules so that anyone with a position in The Party must express absolute loyalty of Obama. Even Hillary.

    We don’t know why but, it’s obviously true.

    As PUMAs we have a position that’s a little apart. WE don’t have to express or feel that loyalty.

  17. PUMA is way beyond Hillary. She did all of the things she had
    to do. No other candidate has come out in favor of an opponent
    so soon.

    fred, you are probably right. I just don’t watch TV or bother with
    the MSM. Everytime I’ve been involved, even with a Hillary-related
    NPR interview that was RECORDED for God’s sake, my words
    have been twisted.

  18. Sorry sounding like a troll-apologies


  19. Michael: It may be nothing more sinister than that she knows of the blogs out there who have given her support and she wants to reach out in this way.

  20. michael, PUMA is not about Hillary–it’s about Obama, it’s about the disgrace that the Dem party has become. She knows this as well as we do. Hillary was the trigger point, but the real issue is that we, the traditional base, are the rejected of the party. How’s she going to stop us from fighting for our rights? Why would she want to? Don’t worry.

  21. Just a never ending stream of amazement, aren’t they!

  22. What’s all the fuss about — that is how democracy works. Oh wait . . .that’s fascism. Never mind.

  23. Also, we own our own vote. Under no circumstances would
    I vote for Obama unless Hillary were on the ticket. Then I
    would hold my nose for the part of the vote that is for him,
    but I cannot not vote for her. I don’t think that is going to happen.
    Obama needs someone who, by comparison, makes him look
    good. I can’t imagine whom that might be.

  24. michael — hillary could have said that along time ago — despite her best efforts (and I do believe she is doing everything asked of her with enthusiasm) she has NOT said that — her silence is deafening, imo and shows she (of all the upper echelon in the Dem. party) what a transparent election is all about.

  25. Boston Globe picking up on the ABC story, which took ABC a long time to get!
    There’s the video. Oh, mainstream media, you are so out of the loop! No wonder you worship Obama. Clueless!


  26. RE: Hillary’s online chat tomorrow;
    Hillary is a wonderful public servant, would make an excellent CIC, and may yet get a floor vote…but my pact with Hillary was not a suicide pact. If she downplays PUMA efforts I can not let that erase the most undemocratic events I have witnessed, and as a FL voter, been subjected to, since last Janurary.
    I learned early in school that democracy was a civic duty, not a gift or right.
    Bless Hillary, but moses himself could not get me to vote for Obama!

  27. It’s insulting enough that the chairman of the convention isn’t planning on entering Hillary’s name in nomination. But that delegates should be verbally maligned by our party chairman for their efforts toward a truly open convention representing the actual primary votes — Well that’s just flat-out disgusting!

    THANK YOU!!! Tell em, Katiebird!!!

  28. (blushing) Thanks, SM!

  29. interesting opinion piece in the Black Agenda Report – on Obama addressing African American concerns

  30. Thank you for the great post, sis! I just think it was interesting seeing Hill’s expression change dramatically while she asked us to support Obama. Her eyes got wide and she started “acting!”–like bad community theater.

  31. Good evening Charles! I like it when you’re here. Feeling better?

  32. Oh, Charles! Thank you — I love yours too!

  33. PS to BJ in Chicago: I don’t like to call Obama far-left. To me, he is solidly right. I do like the term “neo-dem” or “neo-lib”, though. Accurate for describing the insanity.

  34. Joanie!! It’s always fun to see you here!

  35. (blowing kisses to my beloved katie..)

  36. Charles, I’m so glad The Confluence is one of the places you visit. I’m sorry you’ve been having such a hard summer.

  37. Charles, I think Obama might just be the first apolitical politician.

  38. Checking in from work and exhaustion… I continue to be grateful for your posts RD, its like coming for a landing from the insanity . I have to share however that almost everyone I speak with at work and my friends are PUMAS in sentiment ; and do not plan to vote for the poser for president , even people who didnt support Hillary will not choose him . And they are appalled at the actions of the “demographic party ” Most people dont llike backstabbers and turncoats in their own lives , and I am sure most people have known one or two personally, so when they see the DP acting they way they have , lying backstabbing , turning on their own candidate they are very much repulsed . Nancy Pukelosi getting caught lying was such justice 😉 …
    HUGS to all

  39. Charles you are exactly right .. he is the empty suit , the emporer with no clothes .. he has not an original idea or bone in his body . During the primary he took all his ideas from Hillary , now it seems he is taknig them from shrub . Whichever way the the wind blows ….so . does he 😉

  40. Its the FKD (Formerly Known as Democratic) Party, folks.

    Joanie and JJM usually spells trouble.

  41. ooo! Steve Clemons, an Obama supporter and foreign policy wonk, has a piece up on why Obama throwing his Muslim advisor under the bus.

    I’d say he’s pretty outraged.

  42. I have now officially added the name Howard Dean to my list of the Top 10 Worst People in the World. I haven’t ranked him as yet but he is pretty close to the top. It has become a Summer Olmpics for these crooks!

  43. Katiebird,

    I’m so disgusted with Howard Dean! Thank goodness I didn’t vote for him in 2004. I would hate to have to live with that shame. It’s bad enough that I voted for Edwards after the way he has turned out. I’m so glad that I voted for Hillary this time.

    I don’t think she is going to say diddly about puma. She knows she can’t stop us, and I don’t believe she wants to. She and Bill both know that Obama is a sure loser. They stopped fighting, because that was the only way for her to have any chance at saving the Party. If she had fought for the nomination the entire campaign would still be about her. Now that it’s about Obama, he’s doing a very good job of destroying his own chances.

  44. Saw a clip of Obama stuttering through an answer about drilling for oil. He sounded tongue tied. Like when one of my kids when teens were making up excuses as to why they came home late. Pathetic.

  45. Boy am I glad I tuned into the radio show.

  46. What am I missing?

  47. On the radio show, that is.

  48. wow! this friends of hillary guy is pretty darn interesting…

  49. Charles,

    I’ve been saying the same thing since December. Obama has no convictions. There is no issue he would stand and fight for. He stands for nothing but Obama.

    BTW, it’s good to see you. Your travels sound so exciting.

  50. gq:

    There’s an Hillary insider who’s giving very interesting info. Ther’s a lot going on behind the scene.

  51. Charles; His role in Shawshank Redemption was remarkable. An excellent actor.

  52. gq – I’m pretty sure rd will have a report.

  53. Is this guy a Hillary insider? I did not log into the show until 9pm.

  54. Pat:

    He works for Friends Of Hillary, which is pretty much the sister of HillPAC.

  55. Donna B is in deep doo doo.

  56. I’m sure all of you are already aware of it, but for those of you who may not be…HRC is hosting a webchat on her site (hillaryclinton.com right? We know it by heart!) at noon tomorrow. Be sure to check there for her video discussing it. 🙂

  57. Thanks, Katherine. Many of us got the e-mail from her site earlier today.

  58. Opps, guess I should have said, “I know MOST of you already know…”

  59. Eastern, yes.

  60. WOO-HOO!!!


    I’m ready!!! HILLARY – DON’T GIVE UP!!!!

  61. Paul is on a roll…

  62. Good evening folks…I cannot keep up with the reading here! So many excellent articles and comments!

  63. Paul has all the dish!!!!!!

  64. I love this guy Paul!

  65. kiki: Wouldn’t you just love to sit with Paul over a couple of Causmos. Oh my God!!

  66. God, please! Let the tide turn!

  67. She will non suspend? Did he really say that?

  68. Pat, that would rule! we could even make him a jello pie!

  69. kiki: Or Jello shots!!!

  70. Non suspend? What???

    Can’t listen right now! Help!

  71. you know, she must have approved him calling in tonight

  72. madamab: I thought that is what he said.

  73. Pat, if we get too drunk…….it’ll loosen his tongue but we won’t remember anything he said.

    hmmm, we’ll have to record the conversation

  74. The debt is still owed. Not paid off yet.

  75. kiki: One of us could make the “sacrifice” and be the designated scribe.

  76. Hillary is sitting on $88 mio for the GE, if you could only get there.

  77. pjohnson????? lol

  78. will there be a transcript from the show?!

  79. a big hand for Paul at Friends of Hillary!

  80. Pat:

    Paul is not your cousin is he?

  81. “Wow!” is right!

  82. kiki: So close to mine. I may get some in error! Then I will be on the inside.

  83. Dems call on Edwards to address affair rumors

    By Mark Johnson, Staff WriterComment on this story
    RALEIGH — Former Sen. John Edwards has a deadline to save his spot on the national stage.

    With just two weeks before their national convention, a number of Democrats are saying Edwards needs to publicly address anonymously sourced National Enquirer stories that have claimed he had an affair with a campaign worker and fathered her baby.

  84. MABlue: My ex. Only kidding!!!

  85. I had lunch with a delegate from Texas a couple weeks ago and was very clear about where I personally stood re the DNC – although I did not use the word “PUMA.” And, I just sent him the link to justsaynodeal.com, although I don’t think he will reply when I included a notation that I thought “these people have some valid points.”
    Party people have to be very careful these days, and we may need each other in the future. Agree with Riverdaughter and Katiebird, above, I think it would be wise to respect the party loyalty of these people.

    Fortunately for me, I don’t at all mind leaving the party. As a maxxed out HRC donor and modest fundraiser in the primary, I’ve made it clear to my few friends in the party that I’m not following the DNC or raising money or voting for BO, and I expect that unfortunately McCain will win in a race against a deeply flawed candidate, and that Hillary will be elected in 2012, And that from 2009 through 2012 she will be the guiding force in the Senate, particularly in healthcare, as well as the leader of the party and will set it back on track. At that point, I’ll be back in the party and assisting in any way possible.

  86. Paul said that because Hillary is speaking, that there are new people back at the office for Friends of Hillary, SHE MUST UNSUSPEND in order to become a part of the nomination ballot.

  87. fred: The Enquirer shows the pictures of him holding the baby. Due out this week.

  88. I think that writing Howard Dean daily/weekly/regularly is having a good effect if I’m hearing Paul correctly.

  89. Paul said Terry McAuliffe would probably agree to be on a radio show

  90. Tell ,what are you listening to and where

  91. Carol Diamonds on the radio!!!

  92. Carol is on!

  93. OldCoastie, I think we’ll all be writing Donna B letters tomorrow

  94. listening on blogtalk radio

  95. fred – Oh, John, John, John. Just shameful.

  96. Atypical, go to the front page, the link is in RD’s post

  97. I think writing the Credentials Committee with regard to Ms. Brazille will be a pleasure.

  98. ….sigh….I wish I still lived in D.C.

  99. Donna B is near the top of my 10 Most Hated List.

  100. Donna’s toast

  101. Pat, at some point you’re going to have to make that list public

  102. kiki: I may have to extend it!

  103. that was an amazing show

  104. Great show!

  105. PUMA’S! Stay united!

  106. I am amazed by this show as are all of you!!! We’ve been heard, we’re making a difference, we CAN change things! I can’t want till 11AM tomorrow!

  107. That’s 12 noon New york time i.e. Hillary speaking!

  108. so….I hope RD is going to post about the letters we all need to write tomorrow

  109. I’ll be at work – work is really starting to interfere with my life. unfortunately it finances it

  110. I so wish she had never suspended. I know the Obot fixers have more power within the party, but she would have had a fighting chance plus public support if she stayed in, they would have been forced to make these ridiculous arguments about why it’s okay to treat her differently from any other candidate in a position even remotely close to hers ever, and the best person would have been there to rebut their bs. Unsuspending is a lot harder than just staying in.

  111. Did Donna do something new?

  112. I missed the radio show 😦
    Anyone care to recap?

  113. This was the greatest show in the history of Blogtalk Radio.

    I really had to go and pour myself some whine. Wow!

    For once I tuned in from the start.

  114. Recap? A guy named Paul Johnson from Friends of Hillary called in and talked great stuff for over an hour!

  115. SophieL: Pal from Friends for Hillary, her own PAC called in and send many thanks to PUMAs & gave some GREAT info out – we are being heard and we are making a difference!

    THe best part – Hillary must unsuspend her campaign in order to put in her name into the nomination. Tomorrow , she will address the public on her website for a blog chat at noon.


  116. So, looking through the comments, I have only one question: Is she unsuspending?

  117. SophieL, you can go back and listen to it. Click on the link from RD’s blog.

  118. It doesn’t seem to be available yet.

  119. It is, I am listening to it again (the paul’s part).

  120. SophieL – I think we are just going to have to wait on that… (and apparently she must unsuspend to get her name into nomination)

  121. Okay, so I feel really stupid…got it now…

  122. Nope…I really am stupid…I’m listening to an old one.

  123. I have to admit I listened to Hannity for just a bit today. He mentioned PUMA on the show.

    I know that he will turn on HIllary in a minute but the movement must be noticable if he took the time to make that comment.

  124. it’s sad, Charles, when Democratic candidates must duck and dodge the presumptive nominee….

    Obama’s “coattails”, my ass.

  125. Was his call a surprise? How can we be sure this guy isn’t bogus?

  126. I said this earlier today but the Obama supporter in the Democratic run off race for the US Senate here in GA lost to a man who didn’t start campaigning until April.

  127. katie, I think we should at least keep our expectations on an even keel. Even if he is who he says he is, only Hillary really knows what she’s going to do.

  128. that paul on blog talk is woderful i am re energized

  129. KB:

    Yup. He even had to tell who he actually was. He just wanted to connect with Hillary supporters who were staying strong. I think he couldn’t stop because he was besides himself with happiness and enthusiasm.

  130. I think he was bogus, personally.

  131. GQ, if you’re still on, you can call me and I’ll re-cap the show.

    That guy Paul was so thrilling! I also lovedhis tip about how exactly to write to demand Donna Brazille be removed from super-delegate status. Notarizing, certified, proper wording spelled out etc..

    I know RD and Will will be re-capping , but he also said that the supers for Hill are holding tight and beginning to mobilize. I loved the part about added staff, and that Hill hasn’t begun work on her senate campaign yet, saying she is still focused on what needs to be done nationally. When you take this info and hold it against katie’s post that states that delegates CAN”T not support BO verbally, then it is very powerful.

    Paul asked us to watch her and body language closely.

    It was thrilling to hear the part about unsuspending!!

  132. Riverdaughter, what do you mean by this comment?
    “Obama has to do more than just talk unity, He has to act it.”

    I would like to know the circumstances under which you and this blog would go pro-Obama.

  133. Mawm — I really respect your opinion. What makes you think so?

  134. I’m not getting too excited or too skeptical at this point with Paul… we shall see…

  135. gary:

    You’re right. Even Paul himself said so. He will be tuning into the chat tomorrow to know what’s Hillary next move. He said he didn’t know if Hillary had signed the petition, which she has to.

    But, he had a look of good stuff and kinda of knows the world of Hillary.

  136. gary Paul is I suspect a family member with the friends of hillary pac…a insider you would have loved him he spilled the beans on a lot of stuff-fuzzy

  137. Really, Mawm? We’re so hungry for good news. I want to believe it!

  138. Fuzzy, he sure had a lot of info, didn’t he?

  139. Mawm:

    Why? He knew so much stuff and you could feel his enthusiasm.

    I think he was legit.

  140. NH: Obama would have to become the leader and dedicated public servant that Hillary already is. Does that answer your question?

  141. really mawm


  142. Katiebird, I don’t know really. If he wasn’t telling the truth, he was a really good liar, because he knew a lot of details. Maybe I am just paranoid nowadays.

  143. Guys, either Sheri got the biggest scoop of the night or we had a very interesting conversation on the radio. Let’s all take a deep breath and try not to read too much into Hillary’s web chat tomorrow. We will do what we need to do no matter what.

  144. Will wants to meet with Paul. I guess if he does he can find out if he’s for real

  145. He would have to be an unbelievably good liar. I know they’re out there, but……

  146. I’m pretty cautious, but I that he seemed very plausible.

  147. Mawm, FWIW, Sheri says she thinks he is real because she vaguely remembers talking to him before when she called Hillary’s HQ, which she apparently did many times to complain about Ms. Brazile.
    Let’s focus our energies tomorrow into getting rid of Donna. We’ll all feel a whole lot better.

  148. Charles, I actually believe that if Obama is really the Dem candidate, then Washington could go red. There’s a big state out there outside of Seattle area. If Oregon looks that way, it’s definately possible.

  149. RD what you are saying is e has to go back to the senate for 12 years learn his job there and then after he has done someone besides himself some good he can seek the POTUS position! Right?


  150. RD, are you posting the address? I didn’t write it down

  151. Good idea, RD—we should stay level headed. BTW, you sounded great whenever you spoke.

  152. You are right. Get rid of the barzile nut.

  153. Looks like i might have to take the Medford Hilldogs back to Oregon in October to help — IF barry is the nominee !!

  154. you know, if Paul was bogus he screwed up, because he really energized everybody.

  155. Wow..18 Million Voices is having a march in Denver:

  156. did I read your nuance correctly RD?


    Paul is debunking the Birth Certificate called it a red herring-I have to agree with that


  157. I was hoping SM was listening when he said how disappointed he was in Lanny

  158. I’m sorry. I really shouldn’t have been that strong in calling him bogus. I think he said a lot of things that I wanted to hear, and I don’t think there is anyway that he isn’t a hillary supporter.

  159. the birth certificate thing and Obama’s middle name are total non-starters, imo. they make us look petty.

    why go there when we have substantive reasons?

  160. Mawm, keep your tinfoil hat on. we can get carried away. we shouldn’t become Paul-bots just yet – we were all just so hungry for good news.

  161. I sent back the DNC fundraiser request with a note that said, “Donna told the base to stay home.”

    Message received will comply. Give Donna my best!

  162. I laughed when his email address was PJohnson. I thought “hey! is that Pat disguising her voice?”

    but at that very moment she and I were discussing having causmos with Paul.

  163. One more reason I think Paul is absolutely legit:

    Hillary Clinton’s operation have been slimed down so much that very few people know exactly what is going on and he gave out some strategic names that are easily verifyable.

    Why am I even doing? Mawn, don’t ruin it for me.

  164. Riverdaugter, I don’t believe that Obama has it in him to be that person you describe. So I take your answer to be never. Please understand I believe Obama absolutely should never be let near the WH except as a tourist.

  165. I think there may be some legitimate issues constitutionally with Obama’s eligibility… the adoption by Lolo and his subsequent Indonesian citizenship make that so. BUT, I get the feeling there is a setup in the works regarding the BC… akin to Dan Rather getting punked on Bush’s National Guard papers…

  166. state, pumapac.org has hillary money you can print out.

  167. Wow, looks like I missed a GREAT BTR!

    Will have to listen to the archive tomorrow. 🙂

    Now, what’s all this about getting rid of Donna? I’m in, baby!

  168. As long as Darragh, Will, and the other spokespersons for PUMA/Just Say No Deal leave the bc issue alone there is no risk of our credibility being hurt. We’re just foot soldiers with private interests that may include the bc.

  169. Obama expects only 2 things from the rest of us mere mortals:

    drooling admiration and total devotion.

    Why wouldn’t he? Normally politicians sucked to their voters because they want the votes, but to the contrary, Obama’s voters suck up to him while he’s moving to the “center” in order suck up to some imaginary electorate.

  170. State: I also sent in a picture of flip flops and titled it “Flip Flop Barack– No OBush 08!

    I also put in a picture of the McCain camp’s tire pressure gauge. I think they’ll get the picture.

    Next time, I think I’ll say I like Paris Hilton’s Energy Policy better than Baracks and that “She’s totally ready to lead.”

  171. I am trying to download the radio show to put up some bits in a post.(although I don’t know if I’m going to have any luck.) Especially the info on giving donna the boot. I also think that the first caller from Michigan had a story that needs to get out there. I thought it was really moving to hear someone say “he stole my vote” and mean it quite literally.

  172. oops, that’s not Hillarypac – I was thinking you wanted the Hillary money

  173. as for Paul, there’s no reason to wonder too much – he’s in DC and Puma will be there this weekend. he can be vetted

  174. I was just beginning to consider another one of my “sabbaticals” since all we are getting is Obama, Obama, Obama, with few calling him out on his lies and flip flops as we head into Denver. The fact that Hillary is required to do a blitzkrieg just to get 300 signatures that must then be presented to Lady MacBeth Pelosi for approval was sinking my resolve.

    Yet when I tuned in tonight, I was energized once again. I believed Paul. He put himself out there, name and address, and if he were bogus that would be pretty easy to follow his trail.

    Suspend, Hillary should be our next mantra. Something along the lines of Surrender, Dorothy with Donna B doing a Margaret Hamilton in the last act. I am in until the end.

  175. Scratching post dance party post up!

  176. kiki, disagree about the birth certificate issue. It is part of a whole list of documents that every other presidential candidate, except Obama, has always provided. It’s not petty in the least. It is basic information, along with his complete medical record and other documents that should be made part of the public record. Personally, I think the forces supporting O within party leadership are still so strong that only a major scandal will knock him off his perch. His whole personal history seems far too invented to be credible.

  177. state: consider sending 25 pennies in the post paid envelopes.

  178. grayslady, I don’t disagree with you and I’m actually sorry I used the word petty, as it sounded accusatory and judgmental. I guess I meant that we have verifiable issues, and I’d hate to put too many eggs in an unverified basket. I just remember that W had issues that got swept under the rug, and I’d hate to focus on that kind of thing in this political climate. I respect your opinion though – are we cool?

  179. even better. heavy, and worthless.

  180. kiki so true well I will keep the prayer/affirmation /meditation short tonight

    Creator father mother god/dess

    I want to thank you for my friends here tonight we are each others support. I thank you for collecting such great minds that can carry on respectful debates and through the process can come to a sysnthesis of purpose.

    there are a few of my dear PUMA friends here I would like to mention to you

    For RD who has given so much time and capital to this magnum opus at the confluence. I am in awe of her dedication to her daughter and to us and her job she is truely one of those superwomen that make this country great.

    For Carol our lady at the tote board and her singleminded committment to paying off hillary and our campaign debt. Reward her for a job well done let her work be completed when every vender is paid.

    For Mawm and Gary they have lost so much sleep traveling to be our eyes and ears out on the road the work they did at the RBC meeting and in Unity was truely heroic even if it might embarass them to be called hero’s to me they are. Their post have lifted me up and kept me focused.

    Katiebird what can I say about her she and kiki MAblue and joaniebone are just so great to talk to they keep me on my toes and make me think which is a good thing a paralized mind is a terrible thing.

    My sweet arabella trefoil Keep her safe on vacation and let her know she is missed I await her return as do many of her friends here…..and help her in her persuit of a new career.

    madamab and boston boomer and edgeofforever to I thank you for them and there conversation and writings.

    As I go through my list of friends on this second home I now know what is is like to be a rich man for I see the treasure that you have allowed to me in these friends . they are like blessing to many to name….

    If I could ask one thing for myself is that one day I could meet all of these wonderful people who have so selflessly fought for the freedom of others. I know that most people will never get to know or appreciate thes great souls for what they have done.

    Finally Creator I ask your continued hand be over Hillary to make her strong and help her in her work for the people. Protect her spouse Bill he is a treasure make him a comforter to her and may he continue to givve her good council.


    blessing on all of you good night


  181. grayslady – while I do wonder why BO hasn’t released a legit copy of his bc, I think the fake certificate is a ruse to get a stir going and then, voila!, real certificate produced that looks just like the fake… and those who are pushing it look like a bunch of kooks… also provides some immunity on the Second Amendment issues because it all seems rolled into one big thing.

    that’s my tinfoil hat rendition for the evening…

  182. Fuzzy, you’re such a peach!

    one of these days I’m hoping to go visit my daughter in Orlando. every time I think about it I think it would be fun to meet you for dinner! is that a possibility?

  183. #
    Bonita, on August 6th, 2008 at 10:35 pm Said:

    I said this earlier today but the Obama supporter in the Democratic run off race for the US Senate here in GA lost to a man who didn’t start campaigning until April.

    Wow! this is major news, isn’t it?

  184. Thank you, fuzzy. You are a treasure. I share your desire to one day meet all of my friends here in person.

  185. Thank you fuzzy. You are truly a good and gracious person.

  186. “Clinton victories include AR, AZ, CA, FL, MI, NH, NV, NJ, NY, MA, PA, PR,SD,TN and WV, ”

    Hillary also won NM, 49% to 48%, according to the Washington Post. We definitely need a Primary procedure that is more like the General Election.

  187. Charles I responded to your post on the Landrieu Senate race in Louisiana, being that I’m a “naturalized” yat and resident of “da parish”, aka St. Bernard. Unfortunately I left a bold tag open if you wish to fix it.

  188. […] Posts Hillary Web-Chat Open ThreadLying to the Delegates – Lying to AmericaParis Hilton for President!It’s over when WE say it’s overThe Wayback Machine for the […]

    The vast majority of the politically-correct sites resemble Pravda in their Marxist propaganda, historical revisionism, and dictatorial censorship. Earlier they supported either Leiberman Neo-Lib Hillary or Podhoretz Neo-Con McCain; now are desperately united behind McCain. Predictably, when Obama is finally elected, they will endeavor to make him serve their interests. They will stop their slandering and hate-baiting; and will slavishly ingratiate themselves with him, and subject him to intensive psychological conditioning, political coercion, and ethical corruption.

  190. […] But for the most part, the story is obviously meant to demoralize delegates and keep them from signing the petition to have Hillary’s name put into nomination.  This is the second round of misinformation to come out of the DNC in as many weeks.  Last week Howard Dean tried to tie the petition movement to PUMA, suggesting that it was some sort of sabotage from unknown quarters. His lies were a result of growing interest from the media (and Clinton delegates of course) about the petition, and keep her from challenging their very weak candidate, Obama. When delegates tried to clarify the rules for the petition the DNC did its best to mislead them. […]

  191. When PUMA first showed up online I was all for it, because I admire Hillary Clinton, always will. But to my horror I saw the organization morph into a mob of rabid protesters. The talk was big and threats were harsh. I also saw the infiltration of cloaked Republicans posing as Democrats, obvious through their efforts to destroy Obama and the DNC, and steer those hapless Hillary supporters to John McCain. I was totally horrified. A kind of panic set in. However, in the last three weeks or so, many accredited sources have been showing up on the internet with excellent debunks of PUMA, backed up with verifiable data. What a relief! I came to realize that this group is small and has no legitimate backers other than Republicans.

    Nice try, guys, but modern information technology ripped off that sheep’s clothing like the peel off a banana. And now we all can see the nasty little neocons skulking underneath! Oh happy day!


    Whitewater, Cattle Futuregate, Travelgate, Gennifer Flowersgate, Filegate, Vince Fostergate, Whitewater Billing Recordsgate, Paula Jonesgate, Federal Building Campaign Phone Callgate, Lincoln Bedroomgate, Donations from Convicted Drug and Weapons Dealersgate, Buddhist Templegate, Lippogate, Chinagate, Lewinsky Affair, Perjury and Jobs for Lewinskygate, Willeygate, Web Hubbel Prison Phone Callgate, Selling Military Technology to the Chinesegate, Wag the Doggate, Juanita Broaddrickgate, Vandalgate, Lootergate, Pardongate; and the many deaths, including suicide, murder, and mysterious gun shots to the head, all allegedly linked to Clinton.

    Israel for protection, China for technological secrets and outsourced jobs, and Mexico for amnesty desperately need Neo-Lib Princess Hillary for president. Kennedy Liberals justly burnt her at the stake for treason against Christianity and the Constitution.

    Google: “boycott liberalism Clinton Legacy”; “Danneymeyer deaths linked to President Clinton”; “Hsu Hillary”; “Mearsheimer Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy”; Stricherz “Why the Democrats are Blue”; “Who Would the World Elect”.

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