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Sunday: “too presumptuous”? Nawww, not OUR Barack

The NYTimes is suffering from an upregulation of obviousness brought on by an overdose of Kool-ade. In Going for that Presidential Look but Trying not to Overdo it, The Dauphin of Democracy pronounces:

“In terms of raw politics, in the short-term there’s just as much downside as upside to a trip like this, even when it’s well executed,” Mr. Obama said in an interview as he flew here from Paris on the final leg of his trip. “People at home are worried about gas prices, they’re worried about mortgage foreclosures — and for a week they’re seeing me traipse around the world? It’s easy to paint that as somehow being removed from people’s day-to-day problems.”

What could *possibly* be wrong with taking a tour of the middle east and Europe after a long, grueling semester, er, primary season?  The world got a chance to get just as enamored with him as America has been.  In the meantime, the Republicans have taken the opportunity to gently poke at his campaign, probably to see if it’s tender, and John McCain appeared in a German restaurant while Barack was in Berlin.  Very downhome with a soupçon of the here and now but hardly on anyone’s radar like the throngs of cheering new voters in Berlin.

What could possibly be the downside to all those ecstatic foreigners basking in the glow of his reflected radiance?

In nearly every city on his eight-day trip, Mr. Obama awoke to find a newspaper with his photograph — and often several — on the cover. Yet by the time he reached the end of his travels here on Saturday, a moment of political reality set in with a headline in The Times of London that stated, “Obama’s capital tour loses him ground back home.”

Asked on Saturday about his political fortunes, he said, “I wouldn’t even be surprised if in some polls we saw a little bit of a dip because we’ve been out of the country for a week.”

Ruh-Roh.  Barack is quickly getting out in front of the dip that his pollsters have been detecting in the past eight days.  Oooo, it must be bad.  Maybe it was that endless, tortuous presser he gave in Israel where every sentence started well but meandered from prepositional phrase to prepositional phrase, delicately accented by a plethora of ah’s and um’s that convey a sense of hesitation to the listeners.  The labrynthine sentence structure that seemed to have no beginning, middle or end, let alone a point, left me scratching my head and staunching my bleeding ears.  Oh, sure, it makes his presentation sound shallow and spotty, like he isn’t comfortable with the material or the facts.  But what else can you do “when you can’t dazzle them with brilliance” but “baffle them with bull$%#^”?

Damn!  It’s too bad that Hillary isn’t around to run interference for him and answer the question first so he can answer the question second.  That worked so well in the debates.  But she’s back on Capital Hill, doing that whole work thing.  Work is for LOOOOSERS.  Everyone knows that if you want to get to the top, you gotta learn how to schmooze.  And all working people have had experience with The Schmoozer who rockets to the top by agreeing with everything the powers that be say and taking credit for other people’s work and using friends as connections to be discarded later.  Sure it leaves a trail of resentful and vengeful former friends and colleagues but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Only, this one time, maybe he should have gone easy on the arrogance abroad and spent time closer to home doing something like this:

Do not be concerned, Conflucians.  Obama is planning a series of town hall meetings for ordinary Americans. You know, the type of voter he has been trying to avoid all year?.  Not the joint town halls that John McCain proposed, but undoubtably a series of thoroughly planned and scripted ones where no detail has been left to chance.

Can we have Hillary back now??? (H/T SophieL)

346 Responses

  1. I posted this below, but I think it goes along with what you wrote RD…

    did anybody else see this at foxnews.com? Obama overheard talking to tory leader in london:

    CAMERON: Do you have a break at all?

    OBAMA: I have not. I am going to take a week in August. But I agree with you that somebody, somebody who had worked in the White House who — not Clinton himself, but somebody who had been close to the process — said that, should we be successful, that actually the most important thing you need to do is to have big chunks of time during the day when all you’re doing is thinking. And the biggest mistake that a lot of these folks make is just feeling as if you have to be …

    He’s going to take a week long vacation in august??? when, before the convention? must be nice, guess he thinks the election is in the bag.

    and I think those “big chunks of time thinking” is a euphemism for naptime!

    I love that video…that’s the first I’ve heard about the trip other than it was a “triumphant success”….but I guess that depends on your metrics…anyway…morning RD…and the rest of you conflucians…

  2. Gary: Some see a week long break in August as a failure on Obama’s part. Some see the week long break in August as an opportunity.

  3. Good Morning to all! RD- this is one of my first stops every morning- much better than the propaganda outlets formerly known as the news.

    i received an e-mail from Northeast PumaPac- calling all bloggers for Denver. Hope you and the other most talented writers here received the same. If not- please e-mail me and I will forward to you!

  4. sophieL posted the link to this article in the last post…check it out, more and more people are talking about the possibility of nominating Hillary:


  5. Hasn’t anyone noticed that he read from cue cards during his press conference with sarkozy? So unsure of himself that he had to use cards with proper answer on foreign policy, looks familiar to someone else?

  6. I saw that some were comparing McCain talking to grocery store shoppers vs. Obama and his adoring throng of 200,000 (with McCain being judged as the laughable one). Personally, I think conversing/discourse is much more palatable than lecturing/preaching.

  7. Good Morning, riverdaughter — I love waking up to your new posts and this is a good one.

    I’m dragging through this response because I keep highlighting something different: “Bleeding ears” or “to see if it’s tender” or “he Schmoozer who rockets to the top” are just a few examples of topics that could each set me off for a rant.

    What I wonder is — has he always been like this? Because I find him unbearable. And I just don’t see where all the raves came from (last year and the year before.) WAS his speech at the convention in 2004 really that great? I was on vacation and we were out and about so I never saw it.

    About the smoozers? I have a theory. If you get a new coworker and you start seeing that person hanging out with her boss’s boss — STAY away. That person is going to be your next boss and you don’t want to be mixed up in that mess. You can take comfort in the fact that when your boss’s boss leaves that person will be the next one to go.

    I just wish it was that easy to get rid of smoozing politicians. THEY seem to take on a life of their own!

  8. five words to my every post

    i hate that friggin weasel

  9. I stumbled across this last night/early this morning while on insomniac mode:

    One of the most telling facts about the Obama’s constituency outside of African Americans (whose support needs no explanation) is that it is a coalition of people who need or demand the least amount of social benefit from our government. They are the under politicized younger voters and upper middle class whites. The two groups, coincidently, are the ones most influenced by trends in consumer popular culture and have the greatest of ease using the latest technologies.

    In commercial advertising it is the poor commercial that lists the seventeen functions of the product being marketed. The best commercials are based on image associations entirely unrelated to the functions of the actual product. In the post political world, when the same principle is applied to the political realm, it makes complete sense how Barack Obama no longer is a black man with a strange name but the iPod to Hillary Clinton’s cell phone.


    I’m going back to bed until the sun is high enough to start drinking

  10. Aww heck I missed the late night hang out , and I DO laugh too loud sometimes ….
    but this is a great post .. bo waxing flatteringly on his favorite topic … himself …and how he could have appeared less presumptuous?? how about visiting the wounded troops in germany ?? How about not “staging” huge rallys on nazi sites ??
    The media missed the twist from John McCain and the German restaurant so badly … but the people didnt …
    The people didnt miss john McCain in the grocery store with the mom and her child either …..
    Where do they get these statements that he fits comfortably on the world stage?? Especially after that pic in that horrible ill fitting suit . I thought he looked like a little kid tagging along with the big kids and trying desperately to fit in, and more than once I thought that some of the world leaders wished he had stayed home .
    And as for heads of State what were they supposed to do ?? Show less than a hospitable welcome for someone who might be the next president of the USA ? ( even tho I know that wont happen they cannot take that risk ) So he went abroad and forced their hospitality , took a pass on our own wounded troops ,but cant figure out how not to look presumptuous . What an F****** idiot !

  11. The trip was a huge gamble. It is not paying off. As someone said about the pictures playing basketball with troops, he is damn well supposed to spend some time with them if he is in the Senate. So some are looking at the Iraq-Afghan thing as something he should have been doing all along. Then the press and its’ adoration got old really fast, and everyone was muting or changing chanels. Finally he ends it skipping a military hospital visit because he could not get his campaign staff and the press horde in with him. I think the McCain campaign was trying to hold off going negative until after the convention, but O just handed it to them on a platter.

  12. gary: I did see that advice to Obama to get some rest, but over at CNN’s Ticker.

    My first thought was how Hillary was described as “tireless” and the “Energizer Bunny.” My second thought was a recollection of Bill Clinton, when the press, even those who disdained him, marveled at how he didn’t seem to need sleep.

  13. “That’s exactly right,” Obama said. “And the truth is that we’ve got a bunch of smart people, I think, who know ten times more than we do about the specifics of the topics. And so if what you’re trying to do is micromanage and solve everything then you end up being a dilettante but you have to have enough knowledge to make good judgments about the choices that are presented to you.”

    This from Tapper on the private conversation pickup Gary mentioned before — he is saying this to Cameron.
    This is such basic 101 thing, does need to spell it out for another politician/person? Aren’t there things you take for granted at each level and specifically at this level and why does he have to spell it out, like an inexperienced hack. Oh, wait. He is one. It is like he is trying to convince himself he can do it — “I can do it — I just need some knowledge to make good judgments. I can hire experts and I don’t need to solve everything but I just need some knowledge to judge. “

  14. Are you sure RD? That the “One” isn’t presumptuous? Cause I could swear that when I looked in my dictionary, under presumptuous, I saw that disturbing picture of Obama the Great with chin and nose both waaay up in the air.

  15. Listening to Obama on Meet the Press right now. Not finding it very impressive. Brokaw read him some of David Brook’s op ed piece about THE SPEECH, and Obama said something like..well why don’t you read some of the good reviews!!!! So I guess it really was a performance.

  16. Nothing would please me more than to have Hillary back as our nominee. I have always believed, and continue to believe, it will happen. The golden one, I believe, is on his way to self-destruction!!

    GO HILLARY!!!!

  17. And so if what you’re trying to do is micromanage and solve everything then you end up being a dilettante but you have to have enough knowledge to make good judgments about the choices that are presented to you.”

    I can never understand anything he says….I guess his point is is that its better to know nothing at all on a subject and just have the judgement to decide who to take advice from, rather than know at least a little bit about a variety of subjects? Why can’t you have both? Anyway his rhetoric is maddeningly devoid of content…

  18. Maria, bleh If there’s anything worse than listening to an Obama speech it’s listening to him talk to a fawning sycophant.

    Did Broke-Jaw really read The Precious “bad reviews” — directly to his face?

  19. From thepeoplesvoice.org:

    Every cook knows how difficult it is to get a soufflé out of the oven successfully; if the balance of ingredients isn’t just right, or if the temperature is a wee bit too high or low, it collapses into an unsightly little pile of undefinable goo. So if you imagine a soufflé puffed up with hot air, and just about to collapse in on itself, then you’ve got a good image of Barack Obama’s speech before the Victory Column in Berlin on July 24.

  20. You know, people are always telling BO to get some rest. Hill works 10 times as hard, and no one ever says that to her. I think I know why. I think when they meet or see him in person, he’s not the rock star they were promised, so they assume he just needs rest. I have news for those people, this is as good as it gets.

  21. Gary: “have the judgement to decide who to take advice from”

    And that’s my biggest fear. Since this guy has never had a full time job before, we KNOW he’ll have to rely on advise. And who’s going to be doing that?

    Bush relied on Cheney — let Cheney run the government. Who will be Obama’s Cheney?

  22. Katiebird, yes Brokaw read the “review” to his face and Obama did not like it very much. I think he even said that for every bad review there were NINE good ones. I wonder if they have a campaign volunteer who actually calculates those statistics.

  23. maria, I think that just proves what americans think, that the media is in the tank for him

  24. Oy, Sen. Clinton’s speech was great! Thank you, RD, for making that available.

    “The oil companies say “Drill” and the President and the Vice President say “How deep?”

    We can haz Hillary bac now?

  25. After leaving a lengthy post below about whether Obama has narcissistic personality disorder (“What is wrong with Barack Obama”) I then read about the paper in Jerusalem that published the prayer that Obama left at the wailing wall. While I strongly agree that this was a violation of his privacy, I was struck by what he wrote”
    “Lord—Protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will.”

    Maybe I am being too picky, but in just four sentences he uses the terms me/my seven times. He is standing in the heart of one of the most volatile, violent areas of the world, yet he does not pray for the people there, for peace, for the rest of the world or for anything that is not directly related to him. This was written in advance so he had time to think about what he wanted to say.

  26. Maria Garcia, on July 27th, 2008 at 10:41 am Said:
    Katiebird, yes Brokaw read the “review” to his face and Obama did not like it very much. I think he even said that for every bad review there were NINE good ones.

    What is this a broadway show?

  27. Okay – everyone is in trouble for letting me get on here this morning with not enough sleep, my Christmas trees still up, and having not taken care of my self. Didn’t I make ya swear I couldn’t get away with it this morning?

    To my point – gary – I have never been able to understand what the man has said. Maybe, we need to start doing the “sentence structure” technique we learned in elementary school to break down his ramblings.

    Or, even better yet, Hillary becomes the Nominee, and we listen to what she has to say and sit in awe because it is so well presented. Then, we go about our daily chores knowing she is in charge and can rest assured “she is on top of it”.

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rule!

  28. Hillbuzz is suggesting Caroline Kennedy for VP. That’s a fricken joke right?

  29. Caroline pulls a Cheney? Anything is possible in this crazy upsidedown world.

  30. gary: But isn’t this what educators have been telling us for a couple of decades now? It’s not important what you know. It is only important that you know how to access it when you need it. This is the “Core knowledge” argument versus the “lifelong learner” argument. It actually takes both because how would you know what you need to access if you didn’t have some core understanding of what you don’t know?

    Voters who went to school in the 80’s and 90’s are going to identify with the “lifelong learner” model because that is what they were taught. Facts are just not that important. If you need them, you figure it out, even if it means rediscovering the wheel.

  31. May I be the first to say I have ODS and am happy to lead this movement!

  32. If he wants to do “town-hall” meeting there will be a “GROUP OF HILLARY SUPPORTERS” gathered in the town where he supposedly “works” in August; “COME ON BY”!
    John McCain “met with us” / “HOW ABOUT YOU”??
    It will be “good practice” for your “sit-down” with the Pres. of Iran.
    Oh right, I forgot “you can easily get Hillary’s supporters; silly…silly… me”!
    Your so smart you even know me, better than I know myself.

  33. Vacation in August? Wow! Jr.Jr! Where would that be?
    He became presumptuous

    his confidence has swelled since he claimed the Democratic nomination early last month.

  34. Everytime I hear Hillary speak, I am completely mystified by the fact that she is not the presumptive nominee. Compare her to Obambi, it’s like a comparison between the smart girl in the class who scores highest on all the tests (and volunteers to help others in the tutoring clinic) and the cool dude who doesn’t study but who gets by because the teachers like him and the rest of the class allows him to look off their papers.

    How can people be so stupid? Listen to Hillary. She has a plan. She’s talked about a real problem and she’s putting forth a real plan to fix it. Isn’t this better than empty chants, people passing out in the rapture of His presence and that dumbass Obama symbol???

    And what’s with that dumbass symbol, anyway? It’s retarded looking. Let’s hope that epileptics don’t look at it for too long – they could have a collective seizure. Maybe that’s the entire idea. Completely hypnotize the American public, get them to repeat after me “Yes we can…” and sail all the way to the WH.

    I truly cannot stand the look of Obama. I can’t get away from him. He’s everywhere I look. I open my email box, and he’s on the page. He’s on every channel. He’s on every radio frequency. He’s on every magazine cover.

    They are building a religion.

  35. I see a week long break for Obama as analogous to the week long break Ned Lamont took, and that was one big-a** mistake. It lost the election for him, I believe. Hope it has the same effect here.

  36. Morning RD! D&mn, I love your style. Great article!

    Caroline Kennedy as VP? Guess the Ann Veneman (Bush Agriculture Secretary) trial balloon fell a bit flat. [snicker]

    Does he think that all he has to do is hang around Kennedys, dress his wife like Jackie O, and give speeches in Berlin, and he will magically be transformed into a Kennedy?

    The shallowness of his so-called “thinking” is breathtaking.

    Obama is VIP!

  37. “Ruh-Roh, Rorge” is about right!! That made me laugh. Did anybody see SNL’s parody of CNN and Wolf Blitzer last nite? Methinks everybody’s getting a wee bit tired of MSM’s slide into ‘info-tainment’.

  38. This was posted over at Puma Pac:

    Flowerchild2 on 07.27.08 at 10:55 am Good morning all: Opened my e-mail this AM to find a response to one of my mass superdelegate pledge to Senator Clinton. Responder was SD Saxe. Sent out quite a few states, so don’t know which state, but she sent me a one liner saying, HOW ABOUT PAYING OFF SENATOR CLINTON DEBT”.

    Forgive my ignorance here everyone, but what is she saying? she can’t be a nominee unless your campaign debt is paid in full. I e-mailed her back that we are collectively/personallycontributing toward her debt.

    I think this SD has some learning to do!

  39. madamab: I would love to see Caroline Kennedy as VP. Hillary’s VP. Two brilliant women! Is the country ready? I sure am!

  40. People, OT (as usual for me :-)) but yesterday Howard Dean was down in Atlanta for a “voter registration rally” featuring Howard Dean and our O-bot Mayor, Shirley Franklin – and PUMAs infiltrated the meeting :-)!

    We made our presence so strongly felt that were interviewed by Fox News, Dr. Dean was forced to acknowledge us as ‘Hillary supporters’, and he tried explaining why the DNC was interested in reaching out to evangelicals (one of our signs was ‘Obama: Reaching out to Evangelists? Try reaching out to Democrats!”) Of course, his explanation made no logical sense at all – he said that evangelicals’ three biggest concerns were (A) poverty, (B) the environment and global warming, and (C) Darfur, and since the Democratic party has the right answers on those three issues, we have a chance with converting them, so we should reach out to them. But we PUMAs don’t have a problem with reaching out to people on poverty or global warming (and seriously, does he acknowledge that the Democratic party does not have the right answers on other questions???)….

    We have issues with Obama wanting to expand ‘faith-based initiatives’ and fund them with government money. We have issues with Obama saying ‘women should talk to their pastors and husbands’ before making abortion decisions. We have issues with Obama’s campaign using religious framing, language and evoking Baby Jesus/Second Coming language while talking about a politician. We have serious issues with Obama’s Rev. Wright using his religious position and his church sermons to trash Hillary and Bill Clinton and make crude gestures and remarks about a former President and a sitting US Senator.

    Some O-bots in the rally tried to engage us with ‘intelligent questions’ – one British import told me to my face “but Hillary’s too emotional to be president”. His accent was so hot but his brains, clearly not.

    So the point of the story: even in Georgia, between Republicans and Obama supporters, PUMAs can still make an impression.

  41. Riverdaughter: Another gracefully written, insightful post. Actually, it mirrored something I had just written but not posted;’ about how Obama reminds one of the kind of person in business or other areas of life, who somehow manages to bypass the path of earned achievement, and manages to sort of will (or extort) his way to the top, sneering at those who follow the other path. Which leads me to ask: If I wanted to send an essay or two to you for possible submission, how would I do that?

    Back to Obama: He just exudes arrogant lassitude. Bush is lazy because he doesn’t like policy, and just leaves it to other people. Obama has been so able to coast on his “dream ethnicity” and ability to speak, that he actually thinks that he does not have to do any work, outside of making sure he is elected. No reason to actually hold subcommittee meetings, or study the nuances of economic policy, like Bill Clinton would do even in his vacation time. No, Barack is too gifted for that; he’ll just pick it up on the fly; someone will hand him a couple of papers and he’ll wing a speech about it. And if it contradicts something he’s already said, he’ll make up another speech the next day. He can sell anything; he’s Barack Obama.

  42. chevalier…do you have a link to the press coverage? I’d love to write about it!!

    and those are what dean thinks are evangelicals 3 main issues???? he’s an idiot. they are

    1) Eradicating gays from the earth

    2) gaining complete access to every woman’s womb

    3) ushering on the armageddon…..

    no thanks!!1

  43. BernieO, on July 27th, 2008 at 10:46 am Said:
    After leaving a lengthy post below about whether Obama has narcissistic personality disorder (”What is wrong with Barack Obama” I then read about the paper in Jerusalem that published the prayer that Obama left at the wailing wall. While I strongly agree that this was a violation of his privacy, I was struck by what he wrote”
    “Lord—Protect my family and me. Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will.”

    I have strong reservations about a person’s connection to reality if they think that this “private” prayer wasn’t meant to be “leaked” to the press. It was a prayer meant to show how “humble” he is. Disgusting.

  44. Over at Alegre’s Corner, New Hampster has a review of Obama’s “Presidential Look” ….looks at the pic of Obama standing outside 10 Downing Street….He notices the “S” curve on the tie..

    Frankly, I think the icky tie looks like the Rolling Stones’ “Lapping Tongue.”

    Last night, I was feeling very snarky about all this while contemplating Mick Jagger’s 65th birthday… how the Stones got me into the blues big-time. And how we’re all racists…and how many broken-hearted PUMAs are out there.

    Which reminds me of a song….Jimmy Ruffin!!

    My musings are sort of a trip down memory lane…all the great music by black artists that I loved (and still love!) before I was declared a racist by the Obama campaign…

    This Racist Celebrates Mick Jagger’s 65th Birthday by Recalling When She Was NOT a Racist…(Updated 1X))

    (updated with link to the New Hampster’s post….)


  45. I was struck by the first sentence that was about him and his family. I would have thought his prayer would have been for others.

  46. I don’t know why I am torturing myself this morning, but just finished watching Tweety. Two most interesting things I heard…Gloria Borger saying that their are currently negotiations in progress about placing Hillary’s name in nomination, but that only way it will happen is if it happens in the morning…ie., not in primetime. Also, Eugene Robinson cautioning the other reporters that for some Blacks, saying that Obama is arrogant is the same as saying that he is “uppity.” So I consider that the first salvo in the attempt to squash the “arrogance” smears.

  47. KarenKaren, on July 27th, 2008 at 11:25 am Said:
    Caroline Kennedy “brilliant”? How do you judge that? What is the evidence to her supposed “brilliance”.

  48. Good morning. RD good writing as always, and thanks for posting Hil’s energy speech. She is so amazing and so aware and such a striking contrast to BO’s immaturity.

  49. Watched through tears. My god, how could we possibly have rejected this woman in favor of a complete neophyte?

    It is to weep.

  50. RIght on, Riverdaughter!
    (I am dating myself…Nex thing you know I will be saying you are groovy.)

    I heartily second your post above about the need for both core knowledge as well as the ability to keep learning. I have argued against this ridiculous overemphasis on “discovery learning” by using the same example I have frequently pointed out that this position implies having to rediscover the wheel along. At least that is a remote possibility, but how would you rediscover history?
    It is a ridiculous proposition to think that you do not need to know the basics of history, math, science, etc. (Basics does not equal facts. It also includes concepts, ways of thinking, etc.) I teach at a science museum so, of course, I strongly believe that it is really important to teach using discovery methods where possible rather than just lecturing but that does not mean that there are not specific facts, concepts, skills, etc. that are crucial to be prepared to be a citizen, to live in a modern society, etc. There is not enough time in one lifetime to learn what you need this way! Yes, one critical skill is to know what you need still need to learn, and how to go about finding the answers. But this requires knowing what sources are credible, which in turn depends on having basic knowledge about the topic.
    This is a key problem with our current disaster of a president. He oversimplified what he learned at Harvard about not micromanaging and interpreted that to mean he only had to have experts advise him. But being ignorant means Bush had no way to judge who would be a credible expert. And even if he had expert advisors, how was he to know which to believe when they disagreed? His answer was to trust his gut (as described in the book “Blink”). The problem is that this only works if you have an educated gut.
    No one would be dumb enough to go to a doctor who felt he did not need to know much because he would just consult experts or trust his gut. Yet our dysfunctional society has no problem choosing someone like this to be the most powerful man in the world.
    Americans used to be idealistic but also clear-eyed pragmatists firmly grounded in the realtiy-based world. Somehow we have morphed into a culture which is steeped in magical thinking. It is dangerous not only for us but for the future of all of humanity.

  51. Check out Obama trying to stuff his prayer into the wall (at around 3:14 into the video above). It took multiple attempts, as if the wall was rejecting it.

  52. UM,

    C.Kennedy is an educated woman of the world. She keeps a low profile because she wants privacy for her family. (That’s why I don’t think should would ever accept a political position such as VP, for anyone). She has published several books, mostly edited collections of work by others. I have always admired Jackie’s kids, they are – were – more like Jackie than the other side of the clan.

    I don’t think there’s a chance in heaven either Obama or Clinton would choose Kenney for VP. It’s just an interesting thought: two women on the ticket. I think Hillary especially will be certain to choose a man.

  53. I would love to pin these fawning pundits down with several questions: What is it about this person that you must consistently build up to the degree that you have? What does he have to offer? What policy has he ever explained that assures you he is the right candidate to be POTUS? Why does his complete lack of experience permit you to overlook this huge shortcoming? Why have his vague answers, and often unintelligible explanations, not lead you into more follow up questions? Why do you continue to overlook that this is just another scripted campaign with little or no substance? Why does not his earlier associations go unchecked by the MSM? Why do you only allow other pundits who are nothing more than cheerleaders for Obama swarm all over the cable networks with less than zero creditibility? Guess we will never know.

  54. Pat,

    They are just protecting their meal ticket. They think Obama will be in the White House and they want access. It’s pure economics.

    The news is not news anymore and it hasn’t been for a long time. 24/7 news television killed real news journalism. They have to fill the hours with “opinion” stuff but they call it news. It all sucks. I’m so sick of the media deciding who our leaders will be.

  55. Also, Eugene Robinson cautioning the other reporters that for some Blacks, saying that Obama is arrogant is the same as saying that he is “uppity.” So I consider that the first salvo in the attempt to squash the “arrogance” smears.

    Jesus Christ, Eugene again with any criticism of Obama is racist. Hate to tell you, Eugene, Obama IS arrogant, and in a free c ountry we are allowed to call it as it is.

  56. Thanks for the warning Eugene. Oh yeah, maybe you haven’t heard – we are already under the bus for our racist inferences from each word in the English language.

    How about this? We have grown weary of the “race card” – what else do you have up your sleeve?

  57. KarenKaren: Absolutely true. I only caught a little bit of the sideshow with Tom Brokaw asking the Boy King about his lack of attention to the Afghan problem since he was the head of the subcommittee. Obama answered to the extent that he has been “busy” solving other problems. I just had to turn it off. He turns my stomach. But the worst of it is the press letting him get away with it. It is like a kid standing in front of you knowing he is lying and another kids continues to back him up. Both insufferable.

  58. Pat – he was working on “his committee”, not his other committee.

    Eddy says, “Hi Patty.”

  59. Duh-town hall meetings in Iowa scripted the Axelrod way-pleeeeez
    I suppose it’ll keep reporters happy, they’ll have something else to fill up a page with…

  60. Fox:

    You don’t need to know something, you just need to appear to know something. BO campaign strategy.

  61. Hear, Hear, Chevalier! Send the info to garychapelhill. I’d love to see that on the frontpage.

  62. #
    PssttCmere, on July 27th, 2008 at 10:35 am Said:

    Nothing would please me more than to have Hillary back as our nominee. I have always believed, and continue to believe, it will happen. The golden one, I believe, is on his way to self-destruction!!

    GO HILLARY!!!!

    Nothing would please me more, either. But I’m almost afraid to have that happen. Should the SDs wake up between now and the convention and the party nominate Hillary, you are going to see such a hue and cry as you’ve never seen before. We will be accused of “stealing” the nomination (never mind those caucuses) and the country will be lucky if it doesn’t see full-scale riots.

    Even if she does get the nomination the damage is already done. There is no good solution here.

  63. Pat:

    What makes me is sick is that when Hillary was the favored one these same pundits were happy to run Rev. Wright coverage and “bitter” coverage 24/7 for a solid week each. As soon as the delegate count shifted, he could do not wrong in the eyes of these pundits. The night Tim Russert said “we now know who the nominee is” the media turned 180 degrees. Overnight. It’s best not to listen to any of them, imho.

  64. creeper – I’ll take the chance.

  65. OMG – he is now at the Unity Conference in Chicago. Could someone shut him up.

  66. I have to give him credit, though, for his repsonse about what we need to do about the legacy of racism – early childhood education, better schools, job training. (Of course these are exactly the things Bill Clinton did which was why so many in the AA community were able to move out of poverty.)

    However, I think he should have made a bigger point of emphasizing that we need to fight against discrimination of any kind. He focuses so much on race that he is missing an opportunity. He did briefly mention poverty in rural areas and barrios, but if he were to be more explicit about the fact that it is not only black people who are the victims of poverty and discrimination it would be good for him and for the country.
    Sometimes I think too many African Americans do not realize that many people over the ages have been victims of discrimination and prejudice. It is a common human flaw that we must always strive to overcome.

  67. Pat — my theory is, as not-smart as Obama is, the MSM is even dumber. So they actually think what he is saying is brilliant. They can’t ask follow up questions because it takes minimal intelligence to recognize the wordy quagmire that spurts out every time Obama opens his mouth and deconstruct it sufficiently to form a follow up question (aside from ‘what the f*ck are you talking about?).

    This is another problem with the infotainment industry — ‘reporters’ and personalities are simply dumb. If they aren’t dumb when they start out, they become that way with the kind of repeated ‘access learning’ RD describes.

  68. karen, what are you talking about? They excused him for Rev Wright from the start, they lauded his CYA “race” speech, they were determined Hill couldn’t win after Iowa. I have no fricken clue what you are talking about.

  69. Why Obama Will be Worse Than Bush


  70. I’m with HypeJersey–we KNOW damn well he wanted everybody to see 1. where he put it, and 2. where to pull it out so they could see what he’d written. He wants his left hand to always know what the right hand is doing. And he can NEVER pass up an opportunity to allude to the ‘dangers’ that he’ll face because of his race and self-imposed similarities to assassinated historical figures. Christ on a bicycle, even the Kool-Aiders have got to be catching on to this BS.

  71. creeper:

    Spot on.

    If things should turn at the convention, the Obama crowd will fight back every bit as hard as the PUMA crowd is fighting now. Even if Hillary becomes the nominee, the party is still irreparably broken. Just because 175 delegates see the light doesn’t mean the voters will. I don’t see party unity, ever again.

  72. Here is the latest spin from the Obamabots explaining why he is not further along in the polls….get ready…..BOB BARR!

    The reasoning behind this is that Bob Barr, with his less than 6% poll rating, is actually withholding his supporters from Obama! As if those idiots who would even consider Barr would more than likely be voting Obama.

    Just goes to show how the Obamabots are willing to throw anything against the wall hoping something sticks. They argue that with Barr gone from the race, Obama will naturally pick up that support as those who do stand with Barr are actually anti McCain. I would argue that those supporting Barr are probably died in the wool bigots who would never in a million years turn back to Obama. NEVER.

  73. masslib:

    What news channels do you watch?

  74. Huh? Bob Barr’s support is far more likely to go to McCain. What the hell is in that Kool Ade?

  75. KarenKaren, on July 27th, 2008 at 12:05 pm Said:

    What news channels do you watch?

    None, anymore. Stopped after the primary. Karen, no offense but the press didn’t even want to report Wright. Anderson Cooper said “isn’t covering this old politics”. Obama has had the press in his back pocket for over a year, and they have vehemently opposed Hillary from the begining.

  76. Chevelier, that’s great news! BTW, those aren’t the three biggest concerns of Evangelical Christians, they are three biggest concerns of the now young Evangelical Christian baby boom that started out in the 1970s. That’s the specific crowd they’re trying to get at.

  77. Now young voters, I meant. Sorry.

  78. Pat, they keep saying that there is no unity in the republican party, but when you look at polls 85-90% of republicans back mccian…70-75% of democrats back Obama. I can’t believe they want to ignore this problem rather than address it.

    Another thought…if they are discussing when Hillary might be able to have her name put up for nomination, doesn’t that imply that she definitely will not be his VP pick?

  79. Oh, and PMM, the e-mail in the Denver blogger link you sent me didn’t work. My e-mail was returned undeliverable. I’m not sure who to contact about it, sin the original e-mail came from Darragh and she is swamped with e-mails constantly.

  80. Creeper: Initially, that was my fear but have since decided I’m okay with “full-scale riots.” PUMAs have been entirely respectable in our opposition. No one has been threatened (except with withholding votes, money, and participation). We appeal to a wide variety of people, not by coercion or proselytizing, but because we are completely open about where we stand and why.

    So, I say let them riot. Let the world see just what methods bullies use to change hearts and minds.

    (Frankly, I think it will be comical to see the 800 paid bloggers rioting. Are Blackberries now considered riot gear? And don’t get me started on the latte-sippers…)

  81. Caroline Kennedy sold herself and her whole family out for BO. I could hardly believe the utter knifing she gave the Clintons. Talk about illusions of grandeur! Those 2 kids have/had no more business being in the White House in an offficial capacity than BO. Give the Kennedy name a rest. JFK and RFK were the only ones worth a damn.

  82. KarenKaren: Caroline Kennedy isn’t qualified to be VP and one heartbeat away from the presidency any more than she’s qualified to be vetting the people who are under consideration. Remember, she’s the one who was 3 years old when her father was elected president, and tried to claim 1st hand knowledge that Obama creates the “same” optimistic feelings as her father gave the country.

    RD: You described Obama’s speaking style so well!! I’ve tried to explain to people for a year his start-stop-start-stop method of getting through a thought and ending up on the other side either having answered nothing, or a question that wasn’t asked. He belongs in sales where people are used to that kind of verbal dance.

    I contine to believe Hillary Clinton will be the nominee, and hope that Obama’s August vacation is enough for people to realize he hasn’t the stamina for the job. Not sure they’ll ever quite “get” the other reasons he is the wrong choice.

    But, should the SDs continue their alliance with him, by November the PUMAs may have been able to get people to realize Obama does not represent the Democratic Party ideals they would otherwise get from any other candidate on the ticket. The reason we’ve been able to hold our nose and vote for the Democrat in elections past is because they held to the old party standards and policies. This is not true with Obama.

  83. masslib:

    24/7 coverage of Rev. Wright for more than a week. It would not die. But you’d have to have been watching television to know it, obviously. I think I have Wright’s words memorized.

    The MSM praised his race speech because they had to. They would have been labeled racists if they had criticized it.

    They are all just protecting their jobs and profits. They are fickle as hell.

  84. KarenKaren: Don’t be such a cotton headed ninny muggins. The ONLY way to achieve any sort of unity is to debate the nominations at the convention and come to some kind of resolution.
    My suggestion? Propose a joint ticket with Hillary on top and Obama as VP. That makes the strongest and IMHO, the most unbeatable ticket. Of course, some of the party power brokers aren’t going to like it and after all this hype over Obama being the presumptive nominee, they are going to look embarrassed and stupid.
    Tough titties. Not the voters problem. They should have been more careful about how much they exposed to public scrutiny.
    But, OK, they have a month to figure out a way to save face. Now is the time to drop a bit of opposition research on the nominee and play up his negatives. Do it on a Tuesday for a nice long newscycle.

  85. RD..you know something we don’t know? heh heh…

  86. GrapeApe:
    I disagree about Caroline, though I concede nobody will choose her as VP and she wouldn’t accept anyway. It was on this page that I first encountered the notion. She is Ted Kennedy’s sister in law, and has several cousins in Congress. You think she doesn’t know what goes on in Washington and how it works? Anyway it’s moot because ain’t gonna happen. I just had this flash of Clinton/Kennedy on the stump and it made me smile. That would stick it to the misogynists.

  87. I thought that it would be fun, if it were possible, for McCain to ask AHnold to be Veep…maria shriver’s head would explode

  88. Pat J and masslib: I actually agree with the idea that Bob Barr is taking away Obama votes. The purely anti-Clinton Repubs (the Dems for a day) are likely to feel more comfortable with Bob Barr than with BO.

    When you lay down with dogs…

  89. She is Ted Kennedy’s sister in law, and has several cousins in Congress.

    Um, no she’s his neice. And no one who endorses a candidate because their kids were jazzed about it is “brilliant”.

  90. KarenKaren: Caroline Kennedy is a political aristocrat. ’nuff said.

    Gary: I have no inside nollij. I’m just saying that if I were the D’s and I saw the election looking like it’s in deep trouble because the wrong candidate was selected, it might be prudent to make him very unpopular in the next month. At least level the playing field to make the convention result more uncertain.

  91. KarenKaren, on July 27th, 2008 at 12:04 pm Said:

    If things should turn at the convention, the Obama crowd will fight back every bit as hard as the PUMA crowd is fighting now. Even if Hillary becomes the nominee, the party is still irreparably broken. Just because 175 delegates see the light doesn’t mean the voters will. I don’t see party unity, ever again.

    Party Unity will happen when, and if, the Democratic Party returns to its original policies and focus. If they continue down this new track tossing the working class Americans off the train at full speed, they will be replaced by the third party that inevitably will rise to represent that huge demographic being left out this election.

  92. riverdaughter:

    I agree they need to debate this at the convention and she should be in nomination. They should go through the entire process in Denver.

    I don’t agree there will be party unity regardless of the outcome in Denver. If they debate and propose a Clinton/Obama ticket and it is legitimately voted on, and Obama comes out on top, will you fall in line? I doubt it. Why do you think his supporters will?

  93. Everybody always talks about his speeches. I do not understand why anyone thinks they are good.
    In junior high school we had a class called forum.
    You had to stand on the stage of the auditorium and give a 5 minute speech.
    obama would have failed that class. His ohhs and ammhhs and use of 55 words for 5 words would not have been acceptable.
    For a so called lawyer , he is a rotten speaker. The jury would find his client guily just for being stupid enough to hire him.
    What is the pool on when the press will get tired of carrying this load.

  94. Until Bob Barr beats the margin of error in polls, we can’t be sure the EEG isn’t flat and he’s gone on to his reward — building fences around Nevada to ensure all those sinners die of dyhydration or fun.

    In any event, his supporters in their mobile assault vehicles, Hemis with gun racks, won’t have the gas to get to the polls in November anyway.

  95. When will our dark knight show up to kidnap what was so “rightfully stolen by BO” – please note the “dizzying intellect”.

  96. helen: Not only do I find his speeches uninspiring, but they are also abundant with logical fallacies.

    Someone more enterprising than I could do a post disecting any one of his speeches using this as a reference.

  97. GrapeApe:

    The Democratic party needs to get rid of the superdelegate system. It has proved to be a bad system. The superdelegates are often political people who use their power for their own advantage, or at the very least are vulnerable to pressure. Bad, bad, bad system that invites corruption. I never liked the superdelegate system and I like it even less after this year’s fiasco.

    I think even Howard Dean now realizes the rules need to be reformed.

    As far as the primary schedules go, they can’t have the states scheduling primaries on Halloween just to beat the rush, so they should have one firm date and all the states should be made to wait until that date. Doesn’t matter that New Hampshire has always been first. It’s time that little state stopped getting more than its fair share of influence.

    The Democratic party needs to spend the next year or so looking at what went wrong in this primary and changing the rules so we will never again have a fiasco like this. It’s ridiculous. The Republicans, for all their faults, manage to have a disciplined party and save their energy to fight the Democrats. I support the Democratic party platform but not the way the party manages itself.

    Sorry for the venting but I’ve been angry about all this for 6 months.

  98. Morning all.
    I just got here and saw “Dauphin of Democracy”…Who coined that ? It’s brilliant !
    I think I saw it yesterday, but my focus has been on other things (finances mostly) and didn’t file that title (for Junior, Precious, The One, Waffles, etc) in my brain. And I don’t want to insult anyone (as I sadly did yesterday when I referred to “HoDo” and failed to recognize MABlue had used it in a comment at Alegre’s) (I haven’t had time to read comments yet.)

    Thanks in advance.

  99. KarenKaren: I have always said that the ONLY way I will vote for Obama is if he is VP. He is not as qualified as Hillary to be president and putting him at #1 and her as #2 is only going to highlight the wide gulf in their preparation.
    What I’m saying is that if the Democrats want to win this fall, they need to put Hillary on top and Obama at VP. It is the only ticket that makes sense.
    I know there are a lot of people who want Hillary to be VP but if she is smart, she would NEVER accept that position for a couple of reasons: 1.) it is a lateral career move and 2.) as a loyal Democrat, she wants to see the party win in November and her presence as VP is no guarantee of winning because it will make Obama look weak. No doubt this is one of the reasons why TIIC do not want to offer her the number 2 spot. She is too powerful in her own right and she would overshadow him.

  100. riverdaughter, on July 27th, 2008 at 12:28 pm Said:
    KarenKaren: I have always said that the ONLY way I will vote for Obama is if he is VP. He is not as qualified as Hillary to be president and putting him at #1 and her as #2 is only going to highlight the wide gulf in their preparation.
    What I’m saying is that if the Democrats want to win this fall, they need to put Hillary on top and Obama at VP. It is the only ticket that makes sense.

    Agreed. She can’t take the second seat to someone so clealry unqualified. It’s a waste of everyone’s time.

  101. Back to bo the presumptuous this article is brilliant and shows his complete lack of grasp of middle east politics It is titled
    Obama Turns off the Lights in Palestine


    I especially appreciate this par

    Mr Obama sought to explain away the failure to achieve this “ultimate resolution” by asserting to the assembled media

    Now, one of the difficulties that we have right now is that in order to make those compromises you have to have strong support from your people, and the Israeli government right now is unsettled. You know, the Palestinians are divided between Fatah and Hamas. And so it’s difficult for either side to make the bold move that would bring about peace the way, for example, the peace between Israel and Egypt was brought about. Those leaders were in a much stronger position to initiate that kind of peace.”

    This statement is a complete furphy for three major reasons:

    1. Israel’s Government is not unsettled – unless you call threats to flee the coalition unsettling, which is a constant fact of life in all democracies. Whilst its Prime Minister is almost out on his knees, the democratically elected Government continues to maintain a parliamentary majority and the confidence of the Knesset to ensure that any compromises an Israeli Government makes will be honoured and enforced.

    This was dramatically illustrated last week when the Israeli Government released the Arab terrorist murderer of a 4 years old Jewish girl and her father – in order to secure the release of the bodies of two of its soldiers.

    Senator Obama is obviously sadly lacking in his understanding of the workings – and strength – of Israel’s political system in the face of having to make such a heart wrenching compromise as this.

    2. The objectives of Fatah and Hamas are identical – the elimination of the existence of Israel as the Jewish State – as both their constitutions frankly and openly declare. Hamas says this can only be achieved by armed struggle whilst Fatah thinks it can happen via the diplomatic route.

    No matter which one of them the Palestinians choose – or even if they reconcile and reunite to form a government of national unity – how then can there ever be any bold move for peace whilst this joint mind set continues to persist and what is the point of any further negotiations with either of them until such racist ideology is first removed from their respective platforms?

    3. The peace between Israel and Egypt concerned sovereign territory that belonged to Egypt prior to its loss to Israel in 1967. This then became a far easier conflict to resolve than the West Bank and Gaza – territory in which sovereignty has remained undetermined since 1920 but to which Israel claims superior title over any other claimants under the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, article 80 of the United Nations Charter and Security Council resolutions 242 and 337.

    Mr Obama cannot be that ignorant, naïve or poorly advised to be unaware of these basic contradictions to his statement to the media

    Yes, oh yes he can be that ignorant; he always has been and will continue to be that ignorant . he brings nothing ne to the table but himself and even” that “is getting old

  102. my theory is that they have already begged her to take the VP and she has said “no dice”…..again, I’m sure her original offer from back in march is still on the table…her #1, him #2.

  103. I agree that Hillary as VP doesn’t work. I don’t think she wants it.

    You’re making my point though, that party unity is not possible.

    I wonder if MI and FL legislators knew that by going against the party rules instead of working to change them going forward, they would in effect destroy the party. I think they have done this. It all goes back to FL and MI.

  104. I think VP is a demotion from the Senate.

    Senators can be reelected indefinitely, and their power comes from their state and constituents, and their own hard work in the Senate.

    The VP has a constituency of one. It is completely dependent on what the president allows it to be. And it ends in either four or eight years.

  105. Okay – during the 3 seconds I accidentally heard his bs on CNN, he mentioned his skin color.

    I thought all of us under the bus already knew he was black and that is why we hate him.

  106. I think Karen is an obot. again with the MI and FL broke the rules…nice slipping in those talking points. plus this statement:

    If they debate and propose a Clinton/Obama ticket and it is legitimately voted on, and Obama comes out on top, will you fall in line? I doubt it. Why do you think his supporters will?

    will you fall in line??? who is YOU Karen…I think your pronoun usage is showing your true allegiance…

  107. I think KK is a little too trolly for me.

  108. i miss hillary too, made myself watch precious on MTP and I have a headache now.

  109. KarenKaren: Please read the comments before responding to them. Your vent against the SDs had no association with what I said, and I did not advocate for or against their existence.

    If you need to vent, feel free. Just don’t direct it at me when I said nothing to justify being associated with your diatribe against the process.

  110. gary – are you and I channeling each other?

  111. riverdaughter said,
    What I’m saying is that if the Democrats want to win this fall, they need to put Hillary on top and Obama at VP. It is the only ticket that makes sense.

    How does that make sense? If he’s so clearly unqualified and dangerous and has a devastating psychiatric disorder, why should he be VP? The VP is in theory supposed to be ready to be president, and there’s a possibly something terrible could make that a reality. It’s also almost a certainty that the VP will eventually run for president. It’s wrong to choose someone unqualified for that job.

  112. carol, I believe so….we seem to have done that a few times 🙂

  113. Great Point RD!
    Maybe something like that should be the FOCUS-GOING -INTO DENVER!!
    ** Maybe “WE-PUMA’S” can still “FORCE” of Michigan
    “re-vote”! Correct me if I’m wrong ; but is’nt their statewide primary vote coming up on August 5th?

  114. Carol, on July 27th, 2008 at 12:39 pm Said:
    I think KK is a little too trolly for me.

    Glad to hear I’m not alone in that. No Quarter had a comical post yesterday on the types and styles of trolls. KK makes me think of the one described as:

    “3. “Alligator Tears,” the Concern Troll who plays like it is on your side, but attempts to persuade readers by pretending to share their goals. This dainty nuisance may take a while to spot, but true colors emerge as the discussion begins to shift. It hates being called out, and quickly disappears once its ruse is discovered. “

  115. “FAIR” sorry

  116. Yep, there is a troll in the house. Back to lurking.

  117. If BO is such a uniter, surely he can bring all of his troops to fall in line behind Nominee Clinton when the shit hits the fan and she wins on the 1st Ballot at the Convention.

    What could be the problem?

  118. gary:

    Read creeper’s post, to which I was responding.

    Is there some secret code on here, that allows certain posters to make a point, but when someone newer agrees they get slammed?

  119. plus, karen left a scathing comment on the post about saving Bartolevitch? (sp?) saying:

    Debra should have immediately retracted her statement and apologized, and declared emphatically that she would never vote Republican. A party delegate signs a pledge to support the party, therefore she cannot just go off half-cocked and publicly endorse the opposing party. As a private citizen she can vote however she wants, but as a delegate she cannot say just anything in public.

  120. Carol:
    You do make a good point. It would be up to BO to unify the party if things change at the convention. The winner can’t really do it.

    I still don’t see them on the same ticket. If HIllary get the nomination, why does B have to be her running mate? Doesn’t she earn the right to choose whomever she wants?

  121. I’m sorry Karen. But at least three or four people have simultaneously come to the same conclusion, and we know from trolls….

  122. gary:
    That is what I believe about Debra. She was careless and now we’ve lost a delegate. She could have saved it, but she didn’t.

  123. plus Karen made a quite racist statement last night about Obama and basketball that I think was an attempt to elicit racist responses from others…but of course it didn’t work and we called her out on it because that is just another lie about us….so take that back to your overlords…

  124. karen isn’t even a clever troll. I bet Karen is a man.

  125. masslib, on July 27th, 2008 at 12:47 pm Said:
    karen isn’t even a clever troll. I bet Karen is a man.

    You mean the “not too bright” approach is an act?? He/she does it really well. 🙂

  126. What is a “troll” – someone who wants to participate in the conversation?

    Curious, why you think I’m a man, and more curious, why would that be a bad thing? It this a woman only group?

    I’m not a racist. It’s a fact that basketball is the sport of choice in certain cultures. It’s a fact that at my school, KU, that recently won the championship, the school has almost no black students and yet half the basketball team is black. It’s a cultural thing. If you want to label me a racist for observing that, you’re as bad as his supporters.

  127. Hahahahaha

    Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster, Obama followers just can’t help themselves. They try so hard to sound so nice and conciliatory but then the moment they’re challenged on any ridiculous statement, they go all apeshit.

    KarenKaren, see, VP is a full-time job. If Sen. Obama were to actually take this as his first full-time job, he’d get some training for the presidency. If he were to run then, he’d at least have some significant experience and qualifications.

    Unlike now. And unlike Caroline Kennedy who is, according to you, qualified to be president because she has nice kids (how do you know?) and she edited some books.

    I’ve had four books published. So let’s pick me instead. Except I want to be ambassador to France. Yep. That’s the job I want. I can say , “Bon ami,” off cue cards as well as anyone else and my suit is tailored properly.

    You’re positions are so wrong the light from being right would take two years to reach them.

  128. here’s what she said:

    Wow, I never thought about the personal fitness thing. You’re right, Bush and Obama are both into working out. Both of them wiry and lean and seem addicted to exercise. Of course with Obama it’s basketball, which is no surprise considering his race.

    I think that was an attempt to get someone to agree with her racist comment and then tout that as proof that PUMAs are racists…didn’t work though did it Karen? Didn’t expect me and masslib to immediately call you out on it did you?

  129. KK – No Obama under any circumstance for any position – even dog catcher.

    No reason to debate or rationalize our position.

    It ain’t happenin’

    Many of us have declared ourselves “Taurus” – we don’t change our mind after we have studied and researched the issue – we have core values – he doesn’t meet our expectations and requirements – we have positive personalities until you ultimately piss us off, and then we annihilate – we don’t like lazy or stupid!


  130. KarenKaren: Do you actually, you know, *listen* to voters? I’ve done phone banking and canvassing and casual interviews with a lot of Dems I know. Here’s the bottom line: They want a Democrat in the White House. If you offer them Hillary, they will take it. Only the deluded Obamaphiles would have a fit and they are fewer in number than the NOBAMA types which are upwards of 40+% of total Dems.
    Go check out the Rasmussen polls. A Generic Democrat beats McCain by double digits. Al Gore and Hillary Clinton both beat him by ~8 points. Obama is at a statistical deadheat and trending downwards. This very consistent with what I have heard while doing campaign activities.
    And the number one reason why voters don’t want him is: he is unready.

    I was lurking over at NQ. L.J. has a post up, “Obama Using The Troops”.
    A commenter by the name of “TISH” posted a article from Slate, it is a list of 68 Lies Obama has made, and counting… When you see all of these lies in black and white, it is mind boggling. I think it needs to be passed around. It would make a terrific flyer or email. It is very long so I did not want to paste it here.


  132. I think the B0 folks will be talking a lot about Bob Barr; it’s not so much a pitiful excuse for his pitiful showing, it’s more to draw attention to Barr & siphon votes from McCain. Obama’s philosophy seems less to strengthen himself & more to weaken McCain.

    Actually, it’s a sign of Obama weakness.

  133. RD–I don’t know if you saw the Fox poll, but it had McCain v Obama at 40-41 with no VP, if you change it to Obama/Hillary vs McCain/Romney… Obama/Hillary winse 49-38….if she even gets near the ticket it wins…

  134. You’d think they’d get it by now. This is the Confluence, for cryin’ out loud. Send your tier-one trolls here or don’t bother.

  135. myiq2xu wrote:

    I’m going back to bed until the sun is high enough to start drinking


    LOL !!!

    OMG , thank you, myiq.
    I hope you are up now. It’s nearly noon here and they opened the liquor stores nearly an hour ago.

  136. I understand why the Democrats thought they needed the Superdelegate system. I don’t blame all of this on the SD system. The rules were changed in 2006. That is why there is a mess now. The Superdelegate system has been around for a while and was working ffine, it is Donna and the DNC changing the rules that has damaged the primary process. If the DNC hadn’t favoured some states like only punishing Florida and Michigan and not NH, Iowa and SC. Some of this mess would have been avoided. Either don’t punish any state or punish them all. Stripping away all the delegates shouldn’t have happened. The rules recommended only taking away 50%
    Some areas getting more delegates than others because of the of their people goes against the one person one vote rule. How do you win a state and still get less delegates? That is just crazy.

    Pelosi and the rest of the DNC leadership also have cause the split. First Pelosi and gang said that the popular vote should count then later she changed that to delegates when it looked lik BO wouldn’t win the popular vote. How else can one interpret that. The DNC favoured BO over Hillary and they did everything in their power to make sure he would become the nominee. Back in May Pelosi said that she would do everything in her power to make sure that the fight didn’t continue to the convention. We all wondered how she was going to do that. When SDs on June 3rd started endorsing BO even after the polls had been showing Hillary doing so well in SD and it was clear BO wasn’t going to reach the needed number of delegates, I was certain that Pelosi and the rest of the DNC mafia were behind those endorsements.

    The RBC meeting was also a setup. Donna wasn’t going to let Hillary get what she deserved. Most of the people in that meeting were BO supporters. Some like Donna were still calling themselves neutral.

    The rules were always being changed to suit BO. The real number of delegates needed was 2210/2209 delegates but thanks to the DNC mafia, they got it down to 2118 and even with that he couldn’t close the deal.

  137. I just love this: “Dauphin of Democracy”- is that yours, riverdaughter? And after a grueling “semester”- that is exactly so. This guy needs his vacation before the term starts, right? Let that be the quarter system, so he’s out by November. Even better, let him withdrawal early, so he can avoid that “W” on his transcript. Quick, Lanny, get your heart back- help us find the route back home.

  138. gary: If you are “channeling” Carol please tell me how to find Ed.

  139. leslie…I went to grad school in Kentucky…do you know they don’t even sell liquor on Sundays? barbarians…..I remember one year new years eve fell on Sunday night, and there was nowhere to go to get a glass of champagne! (sorry to badmouth KY parentofed) 🙂

  140. lililam and RD – hysterical.

  141. Pat, I don’t get that channel…

  142. Laney: There’s a whole Obama Lies web site that has a list well over 68, and it was over a month before the end of the primaries the last time I went there.

  143. Along with Obama’s so far 68 lies, how about an excuse sheet to go along with it? So far he has blamed bitter people, religion clingers, Fox News, deadenders, uneducated, Hillary, and now Bob Barr. The list goes on. Never once is it his fault that he is not inevitable.

  144. gary: In the great blue state of CT (where I am currently serving a sentence as a NY ex-pat), the liquor stores are closed on Sundays and grocery stores must stop selling beer by 9 PM and gas station convenient store cannot sell beer because of their proximity to running motor vehicles.

  145. Hey, hey, hey there Gary — we KY’ians plan ahead when it comes to the squeezin’s of the Lord — the liquor store lines for Saturday night start on Wednesday, we don’t like to be caught short on the necessary smartness juice.

    In KY, RDA stands for Really Drunk Allocation.

  146. Welcome HypeJersey! I remember you from Taylor Marsh’s blog but I am glad that you’ve found the Confluence!

  147. Oh my, KarenKaren seems to have disappeared.

  148. Like Gary & others, I find the speech of teleprompter-less Obama to be extremely tortured and meaningless. Obama press conference:

    Mr. Jeff Gannon: Your Eminence, President Obama, Sir, how do handle the racism and bitterness of that small band of rebels called PUMAs? We all know you’ve been remarkably restrained with them, but how long can you tolerate their apostasy in the midst of your Great Revival?

  149. prolix…it just alwas seemed wrong to me…to live in a place that made such sweet bourbon and then deny it of the masses on their day off…..kind of sadistic

  150. So, now BO needs the Bob Barr supporters, but he doesn’t need his core base?

  151. All the Kennedy cousins were not supporting Obama. No need to marginalize all of them. RFK,Jr. and Kathleen Kennedy Townsend supported Hillary. Frankly, most of them have done more good works than could be expected from rich kids so give them some credit.
    Wasn’t one of Caroline’s books about the Bill of Rights? And another about our privacy rights? Both seem worthwhile to me. Certainly more so than O’s books about himself and his fantasies.

    The 3 things evangelicals are concerned about are choice, gay marriage and religion is schools. What Dean said is far down on their list.

  152. sophieL, but its only about a 10 min drive to like five other states right? LOL

  153. karenkaren@12:40p
    If backtrack barak is the vp he can stay in cheney’s undisclosed location.
    he will get all the rest he needs and will only have to make an occasional speech.
    sounds like this is the job he is qualified to handle.



  154. As much as I love Hillary, I have a difficult time watching the video as I feel as if I am mourning for the only candidate who can bring about the change we so desperately need. Seeing and hearing her brings back such a feeling of euphoria and then a reminder that we have probably lost the best chance of someone of her stature governing and shepherding this country back on course.

    I feel as if I have lost both a friend and a family member and I grieve.

  155. KarenKaren, on July 27th, 2008 at 11:41 am Said:
    She has lead a private life. She has edited some books. She is the daughter of a president. That still does not make her “brilliant”. We ought not to be celebrating mediocrity and talking of her “brilliance”.

  156. gary: That poll looks good now but I think the image would quickly deteriorate. People would come to realize that Hillary would be powerless and that Obama the Unready would be in the WH. In the end, I still think that McCain would crush him The GOP would make sure that everyone knew what the score really is and that an unqualified male was promoted over the more prepared female. It could get really ugly and expose the Democratic party as the fraud that it has become. The whole experience could be very disillusioning.
    AND, think of it, in order to keep her from stealing his thunder, she would be relegated to second tier appearances. It is her *name* on the marquis that is the positive but the reality would be that she would be forced to assume a subordinate role to him. So, in essence, she would be going back to baking cookies and serving tea while he got to pontificate at length on mideast peace. I think that in the end, the PUMAs would be just as determined to sit it out. It would be a disgusting sham.
    BUT, putting HER first restores the equilibrium and makes the party look like they appreciate meritocracy over schmoozerism.
    It’s the only way to win.

  157. I rush from church to the computer [while yelling to hub that I’m fixing lunch] only to find Gary bad-mouthing Kentucky in a partial lie. Actually, Gary, you can buy liquor by the drink in some towns on Sunday.

    I should know, just had some last Sunday in Lexington.

  158. I must be on the bat channel , because obummer is driving me bats … How ( am screaming at this point) can that fraud freaking say not speaking french is an embarassment , but a US SENATOR running for president with an enourage of thousands of planners advisors security and millions of dollars go cruise around the Middle East and Europe and not work in visiting our wounded troops ?? it is mortifying to me as an American
    MORTIFYING …. but what drives me really
    bats is that so few people are upset about it

    Ps not feeding the trolls 😉
    Nb again am so very grateful to be here I have a nice PUMA growl on my radio show sound fx now heheheheh

  159. gary: I’m about 30 mins from the NY border. CT looks little,until you get on the road.

    But I found a loophole designed to help local farmers farmers. Turns out you can buy wine AT the vineyard on a Sunday (and I live 5 mins from a vineyard)!

  160. RD, that’s why I think she has already said no….

  161. LOL PoE….I lived in Lexington, and the only place you could get a cocktail on sunday was at a hotel…something about it being ok for out-of-towners…very strange.

  162. Rule 1 – Write-in votes will not be counted if the candidate does not file as a write-in candidate.

    Rule 2 – Write-in candidates are not allowed in presidential elections.

    Rule 3 – A candidate losing the primary cannot file as a write-in candidate in the general election.

    Forget Write In Hillary

  163. Gary, in KY Boubon County is dry and Christian County is wet — go figure. BTW, we might have been at UK at the same time, I was always somewhere close to a gutter.

  164. Hi guys,

    I wanted to send RD an email.. I can’t find a contact button..is there one?


  165. And yes the only rational solution for me would be Hillary first but I would still rather see her with someone else as VP, I dont like his “tone”, 😉 and I think he would deliberately undercut her at every turn .I trust him about as far as i can throw a piano .

  166. Prolix–I was there 2000-03…usually in POT 11th floor…

  167. If Hillary were to accept the VP slot it would leave most of us here in a quandary. She would be nothing more than window dressing to gain her supporters and she would more than likely be relegated to an impotent position since she would most assuredly dwarf him by comparison. I mean, the woman actually knows what she is talking about!!!!

    The only thing left for us as PUMAs if she fails in Denver is to see the total and complete dissolution of the Dem Party and the DNC. There is no way in hell we can expect to build upon that party. We have been shown the door. It needs to be completely rebuilt in order to go forward and if that means a McCain win then I can live with it for the next 4 years. I have no intention of supporting him with money or treasure, no intention of campaigning on his behalf, but if the current DNC is rewarded by an Obama win I can no longer in good conscience remain in this party.

  168. I actually voted for Al Gore in Kentucky….lot of good that did….

  169. GrapeApe- It just makes me shake my head in bewilderment.
    I’m embarrassed for all of the Kool Aider’s…
    It just shows how many weak and pathetic human being their are in this country.

  170. http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/fashion-shows/

    I can’t find the site that numbered well beyond 68, but this one is good.

  171. CORRECTING MY POST!!! Have not had my 2nd cup of coffee!!!
    “human beings there are in this country”

  172. Gary, well, to be totally honest, the Sunday Blue Laws have only changed pretty recently, so if you were in Lexington several years ago, Sunday was the Lord’s Day & alcohol wasn’t part of it.

    BTW, I have some unbelievable moonshine in my fridge right now that will make you praise Obama on bended knee. Maybe that is what’s in the kool-aid.

  173. Pat, have I told you lately that I love the way you think??

  174. Gary, I was gone by then, they started charging me weekly rates on the gutters and I had to move.

  175. Chevalier,
    Thank you for the news about PUMA action in Atlanta. Mayor Shirley Franklin is a total disappointment. I heard her speak at a commencement where kept trying to bring up hope and change without trying to talk about Obama. It was so obvious. SF should try to do a more competent job as a mayor instead.
    It’s nice to hear that there are strong Hillary supporters here. I only see about 5 Obama stickers to 1 Hillary one.

  176. I watche d a local politics show in my area this morning and someone that I have respect for and has done great things for the community UNFORTUNATELY used the race card as an Obama supporter. It makes me upset that smart, sensible seem to use the easiest excuse why Obama might lose in November. This person (who is a rich white man) said that race is the only reason why Obama might lose in November. He said that the polls weren’t looking good for Obama right now but other than Obama’s race he would win in a landslide victory. WRONG. Obama could be white, Asian, latino, black, blue, whatever. It is his personality, arrogance, narcissism, flip flops, lies, and lack of experience or empathy for the average American (or wounded soldiers) that have made so many liberals and lifelong Democrats decide to vote for McCain or stay home. These Obama supporters on television calling people racist will not help Obama win votes and it will not heal the divide that Obama has caused in this party or the country.

  177. It is a 24 hour Obamathon! Jerry Lewis should be the master of ceremonies. You cannot turn on the tv without seeing his face or listening to his voice 7 days a week. When he shows up on Bridezilla I won’t be surprised. The media has gone overboard not to mention obsessed by him and I have no idea what the attraction is. It is not as if he sticks to one point or core value. Just speeches. However, they better get all they can now because should he become C in C that access will be surgically cut. No Q and A for this No Nothing.

  178. Good Lord, you’re young, Prolix & Gary. I was at UK in early 1970. It was a hoot, walk on Rose & Maxwell & see tie-dyed sheets on porches, smell the odd weed anytime. Of course, Lexington itself was tobacco warehouses, few malls, little traffic & green spaces.

  179. Laney – I so agree! I have a brother who is currently “sold” on Obama, but he is dependent solely on the little bit he hears on network news. I love asking him to describe in more detail for me what he believes it is that Obama is talking about when he says he wants to install a National Civilian Security Force with at least as much power and funding as the military.

    I am in awe at how comfortable so many people are in believing a Democrat is a Democrat is a Democrat and holding your nose is no more dangerous this election than it was the last time. They even want to give this guy a Democratic congress to guarantee he will have no trouble at all making whatever changes he wants.

  180. I was amused that the large phallic skyscraper (there is only 1 skyscraper in lexington, ky) is called the Fifth Third bank….My question was always “what happened to the first four Third Bank’s?”

  181. Joan, I have all the repsect I can muster for a good editor. I speak as a writer and because my partner is an editor. Floating the name of Caroline Kennedy for the job is ludicrous.

    My laughter is aimed at KarenKaren, not Caroline Kennedy.

  182. NQ has the McCain interview this morning on the “troop snub”.

    All of the many excuses from the campaign should be this week’s Denver Group Ad.

    I am leaving to take down Christmas Trees.

    Carry on.

  183. I like this quote from an edgeofforever comment above: “hisconfidence has swelled since he claimed the Democratic nomination early last month.”

    “Claimed the Democratic nomination.”

    That’s it, right there in a big ‘ol nutshell. He didn’t win it, he hasn’t got it, he just claimed it and went around pretending he had it, and nearly everyone went along. Just like Bush in 2000. You don’t go along with it, you’re a SoreLoserman.

  184. PofEd, not that young, I’ve got more mileage on this frame than an original VW. I’m back here taking care of parents for a while and can’t believe their tearing down blocks at a time in downtown Lex. Unbelievable.

  185. Pat , you just gave me an image of Michelle as” A Bridezilla that I wont soon forget. . And I think I cuold have lived the rest of my life without that image .. it is pretty scary ,
    But I am absolutely certain I can live the rest of my life without her as First Lady as well 😉 I cannot even imagine that , and I am very imaginative !

  186. Carol or RD: Have you given any more thought to a fundraiser to get PUMAs to Denver. I suspect there are many like me who cannot attend, but who can squeeze the plastic for those who could attend if not for the funds. I’m not sure how this would be done, since you’d need to be able to accept credit cards, but…

  187. Gary, math especially fractions isn’t important in KY banking.

  188. Anyone taking down Christmas trees in July has my undying respect 🙂

  189. PofEd, oops, should have been they’re tearing down blocks…

  190. Good afternoon Conflucians!

    It took almost an hour to read Rd’s post and comments, even did a side trip to some of the great links.

    All I have to say is:

    1) Whatever everybody said upstairs

    2) I WANT HILLARY BACK!!!!! Thank you RD for that video, I didn’t know Hillary was on – but someone mentioned it yesterday she was on CNN.

  191. GrapeApe- The most amazing thing to me is, the Dems who are taken with him, are the same Dems whom called the Repubs, Sheepals and crazy, because they supported Bush… Go figure…

  192. Yesterday I attended a pool party/picnic that consisted of 20 people of different political affiliations. The Repubs there said that they were very impressed with Hillary and if push came to shove they would more than likely have voted for her since they disdain McCain. As it is now, they said they had to vote McCain because they cannot stand Obama. The Dems felt as I do. No Obama but probably no McCain as well. The lone independent chooses a wait and see attitude but has little use for Obama.

    I live in a very liberal state. These people follow politics for the most part. Taking a quick “poll”, Hillary would have garnered about 80% of the voters at the party. How do we reconcile this with Obama? No one likes him. It will be interesting so see how he captures MA since I have yet, with one exception, met an Obama supporter. This is not a shoe in for him as yet.

  193. Joan: “Wasn’t one of Caroline’s books about the Bill of Rights? And another about our privacy rights? Both seem worthwhile to me. Certainly more so than O’s books about himself and his fantasies.”

    Yes, and it makes it all the more difficult for me to figure out how in the world she can support Obama. His vote on FISA should have opened her eyes.

  194. Swannie – as you can tell, I haven’t left yet to do it – I asked for advice on that issue last night. I usually take them down about the 2nd week of January – with the January 3 results, I have been off course all year. Everyone has assured me if I am too depressed to put them up again in December, they will send help!

  195. sophie…mawm is working on a web page (to be up soon) and we were working on a graphic for people to donate towards gas money for people travelling to Denver…you know you could sign up and put a little avatar of your vehicle from wherever you are and people could donate to each vehicle…each time moving it closer to Denver….

  196. Prolix, my daughter is one of those fighting the demise of Buster’s and the Dame. She’s a young professional who lives in the Ashland/Chevy Chase [rent, not own] who likes some things about Lexington, but hates the horse folks running everything for them. She lived in Baltimore [grad school] for a few years, and yearns for a big town. She stays here mostly to be near us, a very good kid indeed.

  197. Pat- Blaming his #’s on Bob Barr is actually pretty funny…
    They are really grasping at straws. lol

  198. Carol: And you know you can COUNT on me!!!!

  199. Eddy said he would be here!

  200. PofEd, I applaud your daughter. Yesterday I drove downtown to take a gander and those buildings, one dating to 1829, yep, 1829, are all but gone with the rest of the block.

  201. Carol: *&^*()%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  202. Please forgive this Off-Topic posting but I have not received my PUMA T-shirt and I am concerned. What’s the current status?

  203. Gary, Prolix, actually I don’t think Fifth Third is home-based in KY. My daughter is proud of her E-KY heritage, and once won a newspaper contest touting Appalachian values. Chevy Chase has a high elitist content, and there were several Obama signs up before the primary.

    My daughter complained that so many people in Lex make fun of E-KY, and I told her, honey, Lexington is full of ex-hillbillies [including the Webbs], and no one ridicules an underprivileged group than someone who was a part of it.

    I suspect the voters in Lex/Lou waited to see E-Ky’s choice, and then came out for the other.

  204. has anyone else seen this assimilation article on No Quarter?

  205. Carol, I would be more than happy to help .. I have taken mine down as late as february and even march …
    and just put an old sheet on the floor under it with the vacuum cleaner at hand … and drag the whole puppy out the door on the sheet . The pine needles always smell so good ….any time of year … 🙂

  206. Sophie, YES! I’m just reading it now. ..

  207. kind of OT, but since we were discussing the media, does anyone know where Aaron Brown is? I always liked him a lot especially during the Iraq invasion, and wrote a letter to CNN complaining about tossing him for Anderson Cooper. Wonder what Brown’s take on Obama is?

  208. I see us PUMAs as the last holdouts for righteous indignation. The same emotion we seek in members of the MSM.

    We have abandoned household chores, term papers, projects, etc., to band together and expose the hypocrisy and downright corruption that is being hailed in the media as a cry for “change”.

    Each morning Riverdaughter, or who of the other brilliant essayists, issues another amazing treatise on the state of our disenchantment. We breathlessly await another knock out diary to keep us going and united. Without this avenue provided to us God only knows where we would be. We need to vent, we need to discuss, we need to shore each other up for the sake of the travesty that has been visited upon us in the name of “party unity”.

    As Mawm pointed out, we are not sheep, we think for ourselves, we are committed to the values we hold dear, we love our country, we refute the bias that the DNC has perpetrated and to ask us to “join in” with this outrage serves only to harden our resolve.

    If that makes me a deadender, an outcast, an uninformed and uneducated member of the populace, I am prepared to sustain my contempt for this process. Somehow, and in someway, we will prevail.

  209. Here’s a comment quote from that NoQuarter post I linked to a few minutes ago.

    Comment by JohnnyB | 2008-07-27 11:18:37
    The real reason Ob moved to the 75,000 seat stadium was to drown out the 1,640 Hillary Delegates. If it were held as planned, almost 1/2 of those on the floor would want Hillary to be the nominee. Now, it will be 2 percent of those in attenance at the stadium that want Hillary to be the nominee.

    Folks going to DC and Denver…please plan around this.

  210. WHAT does Bob Barr have to do with it ????roflmao omgoddesss even the straws turned bright red and left in embarassment …. cheeese louizzzzzzzze

    just fyi that is another dynamic and characteristic of a narcissist, the absolute inabilty to take responsibilty for mistakes or admit they were wrong, and blame anyone and everyone around them for any perceived wrong doing .

  211. Pat: Well said!

    signed, another low information deadender

  212. parentofed, on July 27th, 2008 at 1:44 pm Said:

    “kind of OT, but since we were discussing the media, does anyone know where Aaron Brown is? I always liked him a lot especially during the Iraq invasion, and wrote a letter to CNN complaining about tossing him for Anderson Cooper. Wonder what Brown’s take on Obama is?”

    Aaron Brown went to ASU after CNN dismissed him and taught Journalism, not sure if he will continue that now, but he has taken a job with PBS Tv.

  213. SophieL: Read your comment over at No Quarter. A Hillary’Rendell ticket would be the BEST ever!

  214. PofEd, I know what you mean, having lived away for years now, yesterday I was thinking how great it felt to be called “Honey” again. It is amazing that people who don’t know you from Adam, who you haven’t done anything for and just for breathing and being ambulatory someone will call you “Hon” just to be nice. It felt good to be home.

  215. Oy, I can’t keep up with this thread. I’m fairly busy this morning and every time I finish reading and refresh the page, I’m only half-way down the thread again.

    I just want to say (sorry if it’s been said already) that by the end of August, with the economy disappearing and the country in as much crisis as it will be by then, the discussion at the convention is going to be about who is actually qualified to be President. That is my opinion, and that does not mean that PUMAs can quit working to keep Hillary in the limelight. It’ll all work together….

    I’ve been known to be somewhat intuitive. B^\

  216. GrapeApe: thanks very much for the info.

    He is one of a very few journalists that maintained a healthy skepticism for the Iraq War, but factually supported everything, while showing great respect for the troops. He also seemed proud of his Coast Guard experience.

  217. Prolix, I have lived in other states, and I enjoyed that, but I think Kentucky is simply the friendliest, nicest place anywhere.

  218. Swannie; They will find anyone and anything to blame for opposing Obama. Bob Barr mentioned today is just another idiocy thrown out there to deflect his total lack of qualifications.

    Listening to this 24/7 Obamathon is really getting to me. It is like looking at someone’s incredibly ugly baby and having to fake with delight how cute it is. One can only do it for so long before the anger sets in. How many times, and in how many ways, can you oohh and aahh over ugly.

    After awhile you just want it to end and the temptation to just say, “look, I know you are trying, but let’s be honest here, the kid is ugly. U.G.L.Y. Nothing short of a plastic surgeon will ever change that. I suggest you either buy a bag for it’s head now, or at least acknowledge that this kid is a definite throwback to some Neanderthal ancestor hanging from the family tree. Enough already!!!”

  219. The media is treating Obama like a missing blonde girl. All Bambi all the time.

  220. Pat Johnson–amen, sister. I look forward to your comments (and many others here) as much as the brilliant pieces done by the authors. Thanks to ALL of you for speaking up and reassuring me that I am not alone in this.

  221. Grape Ape, you mentioned the National Civilian Security Force proposed by Junior…
    I just read this:

    Barack Obama’s recent words to promote his image as Community Organizer in Chief were not about forming a paramilitary force of volunteer brown shirts. They were about turning America into one, giant, community organizer’s sandbox at enormous cost to taxpayers.

    except the article goes on to quote Waffles as saying:

    “We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”


    ya gotta love this guy…..not.

  222. Pat: The Hillary/Rendell ticket makes the most sense in my house. My partner is from PA. She is not a PUMA. She was born a Democrat into a family of Democrats and will do the unity thing. She does not blog and she is not as obsessed with politics as I am. So, Clinton/Rendell will unify my household. (After all, this election is all about me, isn’t it?)

  223. Oops, wrong site…sorry RD and gang…off to Puma Pac to ask. Carry on!

  224. Carol,
    About those Christmas trees. Leave them up. Go to your local card shop and buy a couple of tasteful get well cards. Display them prominently. When you answer the door, limp.

    Sam’s mom

  225. P J ~
    I used to hear the phrase, “He puts the ug in ugly.”
    Now when I see/hear (only when I have no control of the dial-i might add) Junior, I think,”He puts the fake in fakery”.

  226. Pat: I still stand by my earlier comment that there could be something to the Bob Barr complaint. The rabid Clinton-hating-Dems-for-a-day will find a home with Bob Barr. I don’t know if they’re enough to matter, but they do exist.

  227. PAT I know what you mean.. I can hardly stand it anymore. At this point I am hoping the overkill will spill over to the kool aid drinkers and boborgbots …I think that is why John McCain is wisely staying understated ….at the moment

    Obama is the hare and Mccain is the tortoise ..

  228. samanthasmom: Pretty crafty! It contains all the elements I hold dear: sneaky, underhanded, and full of excuses. Wait….I just described the Obama campaign!

  229. Pat. Back away from theTV slowly….Ed, get some water….

  230. In Berlin speech, Obama says he will tear down the walls between immigrants and natives, rich countries and poor countries

    at the 2:28 mark

    But he voted for the border wall in 2006


  231. I’m like the old shut in – instead of cats – actually it is PUMAS causing this – they will find my dead body surrounded by Christmas trees in August!

    Just promise me, you won’t let my dead body vote BO!

    (The containers have been in the garage. I washed them, they are air drying in the 100 degrees outside, the tissue paper is out beside one of the trees, ……….. Houston – all systems are go!)

  232. I remember the Seinfeld episodes about “the baby”. So ugly they had to avert their eyes!

  233. SM if you’re around…I just looked at the dean backwax pic again…I laugh out loud everytime I look at it…hell, even if I just think about it … Thanks!!

  234. agent…great point….although when it comes to immigration policy for latinos all politicians are hypocrites imo….

  235. Carol: You are not alone. I sometimes looked up at the clock and several hours had passed. I was showering at 2pm on some days. That’s if I bothered to get dressed at all. Before I retired I was impeccable. If they could only see me now. But they can’t since I have yet to wash the outside of the windows since last year!

  236. gary – I think you should post using Nancy’s haircut,
    Dean’s backwax, and what ever fuzzy intends to do to Donna – I’m thinking with a warning to the fragile at heart.

  237. Carol …I think I said this yesterday..have you seen Grey Gardens? are you big edie or little edie?

  238. Sorry SM – I meant you.

  239. I haven’t seen it. Is it a movie? I will.

  240. Dean needs a Brazile wax next time.

  241. I have the Christine Ebersol recording of Grey Gardens. What a marvelous voice. Saw the movie, not the stage play. Poor, sad things living there like that. But in their own way, happy. Not a bad trade off I guess.

  242. Its a documentary about two of the more distant Kennedy clan….they were the living in this old mansion that was run down and grown over….called Grey Gardens…Big Edie was the mother and Little Edie is the daughter and they were both batshit crazy…but it is a must see….I think they actually made it into a broadway musical

  243. Carol: Gray Gardens on film is a documentary made sometime during the late 70’s, early 80’s. The Broadway show as based on that documentary. I preferred old Edie for some reason.

  244. PJ:

    You mean the baby that was ‘breath-taking?’

  245. I hate to say this, but I mowed the lawn on Wednesday. I just noticed that the back door was unlocked and ajar from when I went out on Wednesday. I have left dinner out 2 times in the last 2 weeks.

    I need professional help!

  246. myiq2xu: You are right. Funny episodes.

  247. Carol, that’s the trailer…check it out.

  248. Carol: And where is the “package” in all this?

  249. gary: Did you know that Sally Quinn and Ben Bradlee bought the house and grounds and are now living there?

  250. OK I am going to be “bad” 😉

    Carol, I think your posting here is much more productive that taking down any silly old christmas trees … my house is like that .. if i have something creative to choose over something “cleaning” guess which one I choose ??
    There is only so much time in a day

    Am sending you take down tree energy anyway

  251. pat….no, interesting….I bet there are some ghosts in that house. I always liked little edie though….she created her own little reality and stuck to it…I wish I could do that sometimes….ok, not really 🙂

  252. Carol,
    I know just what you’re talking about…
    Last night I left the car unlocked and did not find this out until i went out to get the paper this morning… this after the multiple news reports lately talking about increasing car break-ins in my area (due to the tnking economy) ! I guess in my own unconscious way, I just want to avoid the shattered glass from the breaking windows.

  253. If you leave your Christmas lights up long enough you have finished decorating for next year early

  254. What was really sad is that they were both such beautiful creatures in the beginning. I have no idea what happened that they ended up this way but it did not seem to have a rational impact on either one. Having slipped over the border of normalcy, they managed to find some sense of contentment in their day to day existence. That is what made is so macabre.

  255. Funny – this reminds me of the Minyard’s family (grocery stores) in Dallas. The old mother lived in Highland Park across from the Highland Park High School in a runned down mansion beside multimillion dollar homes. They took her out when she pulled a gun and started shooting at the students.

    I am still keeping up outside appearances with my house. Me, that’s another story!

  256. myiq2xu, in my neighborhood, leaving the lights up all year is called ambience..;)

  257. No outside lights, but I do like the “early, prepared in advance” approach to this. That’s what I am going with.

  258. Carol: With your unbelievable wit and the intelligence you bring to the comment section, have no fear.

  259. I used to use 25 watt bulbs to create that “grotto” effect in my house. It was merely to hide the cobwebs.

  260. Pat – thanks for the houskeeping tip!

  261. See what has happened. BO is only the pretend President so far, and he has turned us into low life functioning typists.

    On another post a while back a woman wrote:

    “The dogs took they bowls and food and moved out weeks ago.”

  262. To quote Spiro, “if you’ve seen one grotto, you’ve seen them all”

    now I am leaving to visit my mother. have a wonderful Sunday.

    and myiq, I’ll see what they’re selling at the First Liquor Store of Evanston. it’s sort of like “Fifth Third Bank”
    here. People just lining up to deposit their $$.
    have a good one.

  263. What is our plan after the CONvention?

    John McCain is the nastiest man I’ve ever had the displeasure of watching on tv.

    I can’t vote for him. Maybe we help Nader or McKinney?

  264. I don’t like McCain or quoting him, but OUCH:

    “I think people make a judgment by what we do and what we don’t do. He certainly found time to do other things.” — John McCain

  265. trying to put up the Christmas trees.

  266. Parentofed,
    Aaron Brown update:

  267. OUCH is right. What a disgusting human being.

    McCain almost makes Obama look good.

  268. I am impressed that there are more than one Christmas trees. It is enough that I have to tackle getting one back and forth to the garage every year, bulbs and all. More than one would be taking too much energy.

  269. Haven’t read the whole blog yet, but KarenKaren has got my blood pressure up.

    Yes, I think Caroline Kennedy doesn’t know what goes on in Washington. She said she supports O because her teenage kids like him and someone told her he inspired them with his speeches – just like her daddy. Enough!

    And If Hillary gets the nomination she doesn’t need Obama’s supporters. She can win the middle class. It might be close, but she could win the battleground states.

    I’m already upset reading Maureen Dowd’s columns this morning. She teases Obama and asks him if he needs a cigarette. Can anyone imagaine her teasing Hillary. Give me a bucket.

  270. don’t know what you’re talking about, polo. That quote has the potential to really hurt Obama, whether or not you like McCain or Obama. You can tell McCain was waiting for that line to come out.

    For the record, just because I don’t agree with a person’s politics doesn’t mean I have to think of them as disgusting human beings.

  271. Carol & Gary – you mean post the picture like a photo album? haha!!! Gary, anyone that’s a poster here can access them in the media gallery. Use them any time if you like!

  272. Jmac – we dispensed of KK earlier today. Troll juice was spilling over.

  273. Jmac

    Hillary won’t get the nomination.

    How does anyone see that happening? The convention is weeks away. Mioney has been spent. Invesco booked.

    Do we really think Hillary will be given the speech at the stadium?

    If Hillary was able to win the nom, we would see as big an Obama PUMA movement as we have.

    If we claim to hold the keys to his election what makes you think their puma won’t as well?

    I want to know ways of getting Hillary 2012 without having to help elect the monster McCain.

    I don’t think even Hillary would want to clean the mess McCain is going to add to the last 7yrs.

  274. Okay, I feel better. Read the entire blog and – Thanks, Puma’s for taking care of KK.

  275. SM – We need to advertise what “thrills” we have had going up our legs by taking out the infidels.

  276. I don’t think Hillary will get the nomination either. I was just answering the annoying double Karen. Who probably has the last name of Klan.

  277. Jmac – my thoughts exactly – I was pretty sure her last name started with a K.

  278. gqmartinez

    I am a Democrat that has watched EVERY SINGLE Democratic nominee get called a troop hater since I was able to vote.

    Do you think Hillary would avoid the same scurrilous charges?

    Wash rinse repeat, Democrats hate America and our troops.

    I am a Democrat. I do not like Obama but I recognize when I”M being called unpatriotic because I’m a Democrat.

    McCain isn’t only attacking Obama.

  279. I must be getting dense or anesthesized since KarenKaren went right over my head.

  280. Jmac – someone warned KK that the Obots needed to send the 1st tier trolls over here. We, unlike the recruiter presentation, are a group of highly evolved, highly educated, highly functioning Hillary supporters (well, except for that Christmas tree, doors left ajar, food spoiling on the countertop problem some of us have.)

  281. Jmac, Sorry
    I don’t know who/what kk is.

    I just replied first to the main post, then refreshed looking for a reply and saw your post.

    I’ll read through the comments now to see who/what your are talking about.

  282. Installing the ejection seat for trolls was a good idea. On nod to Rico and “sproing!” out they go.

  283. did polo show identification at the door???????????

  284. That should be “one nod”


    Don’t bother, when we eject a troll, we toss their shit out with them.

  285. Carol, what does that mean?

  286. Today’s Dallas Morning News has an article titled “Obama’s trip didn’t give him separation” and the last paragraph quotes a Wall Street Journal poll that says McCain is better equipped to be president (than Obama) by a 53% to 19% margin.

  287. Polo:

    We have a policy here: “Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck”

    Right now you’re waddling and quacking.

    We see the same chiched lines from Obot trolls every single day (usually several times each day) and our hackles rise as soon as a newcomer starts spouting ’em.

  288. I have always stated that my mailman was better qualified than Backtrack to be president. At least he has held his job for over 12 years.

  289. Jeebus, my fingers have dyslexia today.

    “cliched lines”

  290. I saw an ad for “Iflop” the new Obama restaurant.

    “When a waffle isn’t enough”

  291. Polo: Your assumption that Hillary won’t get the nomination along with your assertion that McCain is not worthy, leads us here to believe that the only one for you is Obama. Don’t waste your time with this. We are not going to support him under any circumstances. Party Unity, in case you failed to notice, is only the first two works of PUMA. It also includes “My Ass”. Not pretty, but succinct. It is reduced to in the end: No Obama.

  292. Carol, does my torn up Democratic Voter Registration card count as proper ID here?

    BTW, we moved here to PA almost two years ago. I busted my ass getting my Xmas decs down by 12th night (Jan 6). Last time I’ll do that! Xmas decs are pretty much a year round thing here. People leave the wreaths up and the candles in the window year round. And light them every night, too.

  293. I just heard on TV that the Energy Bill did not pass Congress. Was this Hillary’s bill? What a damn disappointment if so!

  294. Obama has a patriotism problem of his own making. The whole going to an anti-american church, protesting the flag pin, hanging out with folks who bombed the Pentagon…it’s his issue. Not just the old liberals are not patriotic thing.

  295. Boy, we Puma’s are super sensitive. Polo’s comment that Hillary would be labeled a troop hater didn’t sit well with me. Hillary has worked hard to get the respect of the military and I think she has it. My husband is retired military, a former Republican, Dem county chair and a huge Hillary fan.

  296. brit:

    I usually throw a scary mask on the Santa statue on the front lawn around October, but other than that it sounds like my neighborhood.

  297. hey, is anybody fixing to post anything? I’ve got something that will be ready to go in about 5 minutes….

  298. Now Myiq has made me laugh so I can leave the blog in better spirits.
    Thanks to all Christmas tree in August PUMAs.

  299. Someone should compare KarenKaren’s IP address with polo’s. Same person? Same organization?

  300. Masslib,

    Was Kerry’s patriotism his fault too for protesting the Vietnam war?


    What is the point discarding OUR principles as Democrats just because the party has?

    I will never be a republican, I will never think Sean Vannity deserves anything but a spot in hell, and I will never become a woman hating, gay baiting, war mongering republican.

    So lets come up with some options other than abandoning principles because everyone else is doing it.

  301. gary- what is riverdaughter’s policy on submissions, btw?

  302. I do not see anyone being able to pull off portraying Hillary as a troop hater. The tough, she’s got ballz, and they like her inner Amazon.

  303. I am surprised that the fact he painted over the American flag on the tail of his plane and replaced it with a symbol of himself has not been a hot issue, considering not wearing a flag pin caused such an uproar, even though most of the Republican candidates did not wear one in a debate.


    The media keeps saying how the campaign is so flawless when in fact they are giving ammunition to their opponents. It is just that the media and the right wing are not taking it on.

  304. Jmac.

    I agree 100% that military personal respect Hillary. And until
    I see otherwise I think they respect Obama as well.

    What we have seen over the past 7yrs is a civilian leadership at the pentagon run by republicans that have disrespected our troops at every turn by injecting politics at every chance.

    Don’t you remember how Bill Clinton was treated?

  305. polo, on July 27th, 2008 at 2:50 pm Said:

    Hillary won’t get the nomination.
    How does anyone see that happening? The convention is weeks away.

    Well polo, I see it happening. Right now, the convention is in the future, so anything is possible. If it turns out that what I’m seeing now doesn’t come to pass once the convention is in the past, I’ll start considering my new options. But for now, I am focusing on the next right thing.

    And you know, it could be something really simple like a tear, a dare to the press, a plagiarized statement, or a scream. I do not tell the Universe how.

  306. SophieL.

    The only people calling Obama a troop hater are republican. The same people that call ALL Democrats troop haters.

    Do you really think had Hillary be the presumptive nominee going into the convention she wouldn’t have faced the same merit less charges based on spin and outright lies?

    How would she be any different than her husband?

    How do people not see these baseless smears as attacks against themselves as well? Is it because we want to see Obama defeated?

    If we aren’t careful the tactics used to defeat Obama might just make Hillary’s 2012 chance an impossibility too if we help push frames that portray any Dem un American.

  307. Sophie, I agree. Call me crazy, but real hope is not yet lost. If only people would be informed- that is the single worst tragedy, in my opinion, the lack of information that is offered and consumed.

  308. Polo, how old are you? Carter, Mondale, & Dukakis were not attacked as being unpatriotic? Sympathy to the military/patriotism was not an issue in national campaigns until Bush made it one. There were other issues before Bill Clinton.

  309. polo – since we can’t stop you from viewing the comments once someone ejects you from the site – Maybe you should take a look at the latest McCain videos – that should square it for you.

    And leave our Bill out of this.

  310. polo:

    What Democratic principle was Obama upholding when he skipped out on visiting wounded troops because he couldn’t use it as a campaign photo-op?

  311. Crap, not supposed to be a question mark after “attacked as being unpatriotic.”

  312. Carol ignore them all. By August, Halloween stuff will be in the stores and then blink once and you will be laughing at us, when we complain that with campaigning for Hillary and all the phone banking we are doing for her, we have no time to decorate our houses. I personally get a real tree, then the fire hazard stuff and the needles on the floor encourage me to get rid of it. PS. Just start calling yourself ‘Christmas Carol’ and no one will question your decorating style.

  313. Rico – is the ejection seat ready?

  314. OT sorry, When you get a chance,check out the film based on the pulitzer prize winning play written by Robert Penn Warren,”All the Kings Men”

    BO=Willie Stark

    Thank you all for once again making my day!
    Happy Sunday,GO PUMAS.

  315. polo, some of what you say has validity and has occurred to me, but one difference here is that we see that the smears in blabla’s case are true. If they were made against Hillary, we would be rightfully defending her. Just to disagree with the source of the smear doesn’t change the facts.

  316. Rico – give him a free Pink Puma for his elementary efforts. He shouldn’t have to go away empty handed.


  317. I was just perusing the comments thread and I noticed Polo. I was still wondering about what was going on when I read this:

    myiq2xu, on July 27th, 2008 at 3:32 pm Said:
    Rico – is the ejection seat ready?

    I had to burst into laughter because that alone told me when has been going on.

  318. polo: Yes I do think that had Hillary been the presumptive nominee going into the convention she wouldn’t have faced the same merit less charges based on spin and outright lies regarding the troops. She is respected by the troops. She is totally Commander in Chief material. He is not. You need to see him leaping through the enchanted forest in the Jib Jab video. No one would do that to Hillary.

    How would she be any different than her husband?
    Bill had issues with his letters to avoid the draft. (Interestingly, and to your point, no one called the chicken hawks of the current administration on that crap.) But clearly, Hillary does not have the same issues of military credibility that Bill had.

  319. This recalls a true story from 1969. A good friend of mine was a liberal Presbyterian pastor here in E-Ky. He spent time hanging out with the youth,etc. During a session meet, some conservatives jumped him. One said, “Well, you’re supposedly a man of God, so I’m not calling you a Communist exactly, but I bet you wear pink undershorts!”

  320. later, polo

  321. polo, can you read? I said Carter, Mondale, Dukakis. You do know they came before Clinton, don’t you?

  322. Carol- I keep my Christmas lights up all year- they are low voltage and give the place an eerie glow. Also, I have one of those “living” trees on the front porch, ready to come back in for a second season- if I plant them, they usually die, although we planted a tiny Italian Stone Pine (one of those teeny weeny Christmas trees) a few years back and it is over 20 feet tall.

  323. polo – I thought you had left already. Rico, 2 more for the road. Put it on my tab.

    Enjoy the ride. Now that you have convinced me to vote Obama, I have to get my DNC membership reinstated. It will probably take a while, I hear they are overwhelmed with requests.

    HA! HA!

  324. lililam – it is refreshing to know that all of us should be on an episode of “Clean House”.

  325. Sad about the Obama trolls. The big point they made in the primary was that Hillary had such high negatives, the GOP would have a field day. Then the Obamites proceeded to attack her for every lie they could imagine. Who came to Hillary’s defense?

    Don’t come the hell here, expecting us to defend The One from the GOP. You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

  326. polo: please cite a single non right wing media source that isn’t in love with The One.

    Anyone else here smell something? Smells like it came from the polo grounds.

  327. Damn polo. Don’t you know when you are not welcome?

  328. Great post, riverdaughter, it just amazes me how obama gets so much press coverage and raves reviews for speeches and trips with no substance and all show …

    we’re electing a president, not picking the best show dog

  329. polo – are you a Jehovah Witness? I have no principles, I can’t be saved. Move along little doggy or horsey!

  330. parentofed,

    Im not look to get people to defend Obama.

    I’m looking for ways to stop him without electing McCain.

    I’m looking to stop seeing GOP LIES about Democrats being spread in Hillary Clinton’s name.

    If you have a problem with that then it is you that disrespects Hillary because if and when she runs again it WILL be as a Democrat.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

  331. Okay – got to go pack Christmas decorations!

  332. Carol,

    I don’t suffer bullies. So far there are two of you objecting.

    I will move along when I am asked to leave by someone in charge.

    As you have pressed your eject button several times already without result I will assume you are not one of them.

    Good day.

  333. actually, i don’t think obama is a troop hater, I just think he only does things that benefit him at that moment … anything that doesn’t support his agenda is just not important at that moment, be it troops, women’s right to birth control, or the truth

  334. polo: For what it’s worth, I believe you are a Democrat and I believe you are sincere in your beliefs. But I do not believe what you believe.
    – I don’t believe that Obama is Democratic enough to merit my vote or my defense.
    – I don’t believe that the party can be saved with the current people in charge.
    – While I cannot bring myself to vote for McCain, I do not believe that a McCain presidency will be worse than an Obama presidency.
    – I believe that the DNC has a problem and they aren’t going to get the help they so desperately need unless they hit bottom.

  335. dakinikat,

    But explain then how visiting the troops wouldn’t benefit him?

    Don’t you think the press would have reported it? At least more so than the tour of Berlin he took instead?

    Look, I think the guy is way too arrogant, way too inexperienced, and not CiC caliber, but I also know a GOP Lie when I see one. And I know a GOP lie aimed at all Democrats when I see it as well.

  336. polo, i think he had to make a call about which looked more political …and he choose not visiting the troops … i think it was a bad call, but i don’t think it makes him unpatriotic, i’d have just left the entourage behind and did the visit anyway… i think saying i did it but tried to minimize the politicizing would be more defensible, especially since he did that in iraq anyway …

    just say, look at this point, i’m going as a senator, and no ones allowed to come with me … thank you for not covering this …

    i see it as bad judgement because he figured that it would help him more politically by not looking political over troop visitation. he was in the position of being criticized either way, so why not go visit folks that might like to see him anyway? he gambled on the one that would damage him less … i don’t think he made the decision based on what may have been good for wounded troops … that’s the problem I would have … i don’t buy the repub talking points on this, I just think it showed an error in judgement

  337. and the error in judgement was making the decision on what he thought was minimizing political damage to him, instead of what was the right thing to do

  338. i understand what john mccain meant by saying it’s never a bad idea to go thank folks that sacrificed for us …

    i think the repub machine is making too big a deal out of it .. they should be focusing on the vacuity of his speech in berlin instead … the fact it was just a rehashed hopie changie speech and said nothing … nothing worth that scale of coverage or platform

    but, then, no one asks me … i’m just a blogger with a brown sack over my head …

  339. polo, you’re argument has one HUGE hole in it.

    Hillary Clinton took the time to educate herself on the military when she went to the Senate. She made an extra effort to understand the military, culturally as well as operationally, not only for political reasons but to augment an already impressive education on policy.

    She wanted to be ready to be commander-in-chief. She worked and she learned.

    Anyone who would try to say Sen. Clinton is a troop hater would be laughed at, esp. if you add in her work regarding veterans benefits and troop training.

    Sen. Obama’s fundamental problem here is that he chose to workout instead of going to say thanks to some soldiers. He did it publicly and without regard not only for the political fall-out from such a move (amateurish, but not horrible), but with an utter disregard for the feelings of those soldiers.

    Not only has Sen. Obama made very little effort to educate himself on military issues, he can’t even be bothered to say thank you to wounded soldiers serving their country as much as the junior senator from Illinois.

    They were waiting for Sen. Obama at Landstuhl when they were told he wasn’t coming. Why did he choose not to show up?

    Because the politerazzi* weren’t allowed to tagalong to get their photo ops and record the kind words Sen. Obama would utter to the troops.

    This is not about 2012. This is about an open nomination process at the Democratic Convention. It’s a long way from now until then and anything can happen.

    *Political papparazzi. I just made this up and I want credit, dammit.

  340. IT turns out he was at the gym flirting with a blonde!

  341. All the decorations are off the trees!

  342. polo is missing lots of points, especially the big one.

    Gore lost, Mondale lost, Dukakis lost, Carter lost re-election, but there were no arguments about patriotism or anti-military. Bill Clinton won despite complaints about the draft-dodging/patriotism. Clinton won because he connected to the middle class; the others lost because, fairly or not, they couldn’t connect with the middle class. Even Kerry could have won if he handled the Swiftboating head-on, and if he hadn’t been seen as elitist.

    This whole patriotism argument is a whining excuse by some Dems, and gleefully perpetuated by Repubs.

  343. polo is a troll

  344. Polo is still here?

    Yo, Trollo!

    If you want to stop Obama without electing McCain, help us get the superdelegates to make Hillary the nominee.

    But that’s not really why you’re here, so:

    Vamoose! GTFO! Am-scray!

  345. Good Morning


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