Dear Lanny,
I am listening to you on blogtalkradio and I’m not sure you understand who we are. We are political junkies. We eat this stuff for breakfast, in my case, *before* breakfast. We’ve been paying attention to all of the moving parts since we were children. There is absolutely NOTHING you can BS us on that we can’t see right through.
Now, I don’t know who roped you into coming to us to try to talk us out of our course of action but you can march right back to them and give them a message for us. “NO DEAL ON OBAMA”
We know exactly what Obama is. He’s an ambitious ass kissing schmoozer with a razor thin CV. He’s a ruthless campaigner and an unethical delegate thief. He will compromise with the Republcians on just about everything including energy policy and FISA. We don’t know what he’d do on reproductive rights but given his track record, anything is possible as long as it is politically expedient.
We don’t want this man as our president, Lanny. The American public has nothing to gain from Republican Lite. He is only going to benefit affluent liberals and many of US fall into that category. He is no FDR, he’s got no experience and our ears will bleed if we have to listen to him for four years. He is a non-starter for us, Lanny.
What’s more, we don’t like the way that politics were played this year. This may be the election where the mostly male, mostly older power brokers finally get the boot. We are a new generation of women and men who were brought up in a more egalitarian era. We’re not going to put up with the old way of picking nominees. Now, honor us and our candidate.
Savvy?
Lanny, we have thought this through from every angle and believe me, the party can not get any less unified by submitting Hillary’s name in nomination. We want it, the country wants it. Whether the DNC wants it is of no interest to us. It can either do the right thing now or it can suffer the consequences later.
Give it up, Lanny.
Sincerely,
Riverdaughter
Filed under: Presidential Election 2008 | Tagged: Lanny Davis, unlucky messenger |
The Confluence 
Oh, well. Listening to him just served to get me even more fired up.
If not Hillary in ’08 then I’ll vote McCain.
Excellent letter!
Ditto.
I was never very good at listening to anyone anyway.
I can’t believe I missed it! I’ll have to listen later..who got to ask a question?
I didn’t expect much from Lanny after he backed Uhbama, but I did expect more than this utter bs. Had to turn it off. So how many blogs will see this as our smackdown? God I could cheerfully choke him
Lanny, we are the Ultra-High information voters. There is no fooling us. Obama will never get this Democrat’s vote.
There was only one caller. MaryBeth, I think. And then Lanny hung up!
He said nothing that would change my mind. He was utterly unconvincing. What has Obama done that would cause Davis to be “impressed” by him? Davis provided no facts to support that statement. Furthermore, I did not understand his point about BO’s FISA vote. Was he implying that Hillary’s vote was wrong? Sherri did a great job, though.
A great big huge AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I KNEW you’d have been a great moderator for that show, Riverdaughter!
Poor Lanny. He didn’t know who he was talking to.
Will was great, he jumped in and ripped apart all of the junk that Lanny tried to feed us. I do think that Lanny was playing the I’m a team player card and figured that we would take it with a grain of salt. I thought he was great at ripping into Dean. I did miss the last 20 minutes so I don’t know if I missed anything that would have changed my mind.
Shari and Will were wonderful!
F@ck him.
We have to make sure, somehow, that Hillary has (or gets) the 300 delegates to sign the petition demanding that she gets nominated and gets to speak.
I didn’t get the point about the FISA vote either. he implied that without that particular bill there would be no reins on domestic spying at all. I can’t grasp that leap of logic.
The FISA explanation was as convoluted as any statement Obama has ever put out. We will need translators in the future.
Yeah, we’ll have to add “Obamamumble” translators to the list of critically needed translators.
wow, who is this woman? HuffPo allowed her phone number to be published in comments and didn’t remove it.
Karolina: He’s just a messenger. He’s doing what they wanted him to do. We’re getting under the DNC’s skin. There’s going to be more of this and it’s going to worse. Remember what I told you about holding hands and sticking together?
Brace yourselves.
hey, didn’t Obama say we all needed to learn a second language???
Reaching out my hands.
gripping tight
Sexism is girls having to wear a skirt to a picnic while the boys wear shorts.
Misogyny and CDS is what happen to Senator Clinton.
Let’s get that clear.
Next, this attitude that our children’s generation grew up with where everyone gets a trophy – there are no clear winners – can’t we all just get along – it doesn’t really matter – the positions are all the same – team work – no divisive action is pure bullshit.
I grew up with “anything worth having is worth fighting for” and that is what I taught my child.
Lanny and all of them will be in the position of saying “President McCain” if Hillary does not fight to the end!
Joanie says it’s like playing Red Rover, Red Rover….
katiebird: lol
Riverdaughter, they are bent on suffering the consequences later, and they will. Goodbye Lanny. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and the Democratic core majority deserved better. You caved in, followed the path of least resistence, and left us all behind. You have no legacy now.
hmm… (a post is tickling my little brain)
katiebird: Go for it.
Lanny, we hardly knew ye…….
“He’s just a messenger. He’s doing what they wanted him to do. ”
RD, maybe the quick exit was an indication that he wasn’t lovin’ what he was doin’.
Anyway, I’m more than willing to hold hands, and I even don’t mind breaking nails, despite how badly it will look on that picnic Carol was talking about, where we’ll all be wearing dresses.
Red Rover, Red Rover send Lanny right over. If he can’t break through us, he has to join us.
Carol is making all the sandwiches and bringing the drinks!
Pat,
You have to bring the jello pie!
I actually have a bra like that. Not.
joaniebone is providing the desserts!
Lanny, Lanny, Lanny, the election will be decided by old women playing bingo in Ohio. Who can get those votes? Obama can’t get them even with Clinton on the ticket.
Riverdaughter, I posted this on the previous thread. The Lanny interview went much better than I had hoped. Aside from the weak Unity blah-blah, that he must have known we wouldn’t go for, Lanny made two strong points that were made by implication:
1) BO does not represent the will of the Democratic electorate.
He made this point through the strong argument for election reform. Why would reform be needed if the outcome was fair and right, but only “disappointing”?
2) BO will lose the general election.
He made this argument through the VP argument by saying that BO NEEDS Hillary to win. He said that BO can win without her but with the caveat that John McCain continues to run a weak campaign which we know will not be the case. Since BO and McCain are running neck and neck, any improvement in the McCain campaign will cause BO to lose. And, since he said that it is not likely that she will be asked to be VP, BO will therefore lose the general election.
These are two compelling arguments for the superdelegates to consider when they vote in Denver…
I wonder… did the Democratic Party leave me or have I changed?
I just do not feel that I have seen anything democratic within my party. Before the TX caucus, I thought I could vote for Obama. After my experiences, I decided to learn more.
What I learned is, Obama gives a fantastic first impression… It is getting to know him and asking him to follow trough on his promises that make me feel as if I just had a one night stand.
Fool me once, shame on you… fool me twice shame on me… Wake up MSM!
Jello pies coming through!!!
Pat, I actually had a cookie company–“Big Hairy Cookies”. I’m bring some. They are so good, they’re like currency. I named them after someone described me that way.
I’ll bring some. Where’s fuzzy? There needs to be another poor typist here besides me!
And joaniebone is bringing all our “dates” as well!!
“# kiki, on July 27th, 2008 at 9:16 pm Said:
I didn’t get the point about the FISA vote either. he implied that without that particular bill there would be no reins on domestic spying at all. I can’t grasp that leap of logic.”
Isn’t that similar to the excuse BO gave for not voting for the bankruptcy bill. He though 30% was too high so he didn’t vote for it, which is basically saying leave it uncapped. He told us right there he was voting with his $$$ buddies. Any BS he sends out about FISA won’t make sense/be logical, but it’s clear as day who he was voting for that day, and it wasn’t us. When he voted FOR the Energy Bill, he wasn’t voting for us either.
This man is no Democrat.
Yes, Ed and I had plans to come.
Lanny is doing what he has to do. I have a very tough time beating up on him.
He was one one the few going on TV picking up fight for Hillary when most she was taking the type of beating Mel Gibson gave to Jesus.
RD: How do we submit a candidate image for Satire on a Budget?
The second language is called “Convolutia” from the parallel “world” political nut cases come from, first identified in 2000 spoken by Bu$h et al. (formerly labeled bu!! shite)
RD – thanks for saying it like it is. Each day I fear I am going to come here and ya’ll have rolled over – this comes from spending too many years at the cheetio and thinking we all had the same issues, etc., and then they turned….
I will never vote for a fraud, country before party for me and, damn, when my own party turns into a replica of what I have been referring to as verministic criminal pols(R), it’s personal and I have greater resolve against it. Thanks for relaying the program – glad Will and Marci were on too.
Baabye Lanny.
Hi, Donna B! If you are “watching” us, we love you!! XX00
Harriet is on!
nycstray,
I am not a talented person with media… I would love to see a video that piggyback’s the “where is the beef” commercials for Wendy’s.
Where is the Democrat…
I’ll hire the band. Can I?
Karolina: lol
I’m going to defend Lanny, mostly:
1. He was willing to face what he knew had to be a hostile audience. There are only two major Dems left that will do that, and their last name is Clinton.
2. Lanny is very careful how he speaks, the fact that he even initmated that the Dem leadership fell down on the job was HUGE. Also, the fact that he (as Honora points out) discussed the unfairness of the primary process at length is also huge.
3. He said a lot of general blah blah about being impressed with Obama but was unable to name any specifics except FISA. Now, he lost me totally on FISA except that I sort of agree with him that the only tiny vestige of positiveness on FISA was that Obama gave the Obots a big FU.
What Lanny totally lost me on, besides FISA, was when he talked about sexism — he gets points for being one of the few (only?) Dems who acknowledged it at all. But not for the examples — those were bush league compared to the rampaging, wilding misogyny.
But he pushed the Schmoonity stuff a LOT less than I thought he would, and had no getting over it bullshit.
You’re so right that our ears will bleed if we have to listen to him for 4 years. Can you imagine 8 years of watching Bush deliver the state of the union, only to be followed by BO???!!!! No deal!
Dammit, MABlue, do you always have to say good stuff? I was getting ready to say something similar but you beat me to it—again.
Lanny went to bat for the good senator and he gets my respect for that. The simple fact that he spoke with and about this grassroots movement is a good indication of how far the message is traveling.
They’re paying attention, fellow travelers.
To really hammer the message home? I say we pay down that debt. Money talks.
Is there another fundraising drunken brawling party thang scheduled for later this week?
Leisa,
Bookmarked it in case I have time this week. I need to finish up my tomorrow AM deadline and I have another massive one Friday (OY!)
I’m hoping for a break in the next week or 2 because BO just dishes out massive amounts of material to work with, lol!~
Beautifully written RiverDaughter,
I am sorry to read that Lanny bowed, who knows what arm-twisting he went through. I remember Gov. Rendell mentioning how he was talked to by 0bomessiah.
Moses himself, with “Unity” written on a stone tablet could not make me vote for a man who prevented my vote from counting, gamed the votes from a State where he removed his name, and then took delegates he never earned. Nothing in all my years has felt so wrong.The “0” lacks a basic understanding of democracy, and he needs to learn how to treat working people, moderates, and ladies more respectfully.
I’d rather eat worms
And just a correction — Lanny didn’t hang up, he had a problem and called Will back separately to reiterate his respect and say bye properly.
When it happened it did seem like he hung up, but even the PUMAs on the phone didn’t think that was what was going on.
With you, Ohio–throw $$. Our value is not just to vote against the unworthy, but to support the worthy
Lanny did what he had to do , I suppose, and someone in the chat mentioned that he gave us exposure and I would add more credibility by showing up as well . he can now say, I talked to them and they are determined 🙂
he had his pat sentence: “I was impressed”. When asked to say “by what?” he couldn’t.
I got the impression Lanny was mostly anti-McCain then pro-Obama. But I can say for sure that we will not see any support from him for putting Hillary’s name into nomination for the convention. I think the Denver Group’s push is a lost cause, but then I thought so from the begiinning.
I think it is going to be ironic that the person who is going to be associated as the leader of the PUMA movement is Will.
Punishment and Retribution are the only things that will get the attention of those so worthy.
Reform is good, but action is required now!
I want to know, and I think we demand an answer to what “official, legal duty the Super Delegates” are required to perform by virtue of their office.
Asking them to do the right thing and demanding it are two different things.
PUMA$ Who Donate Rule!
PS But Ricky was fantastic – like I expected her to be! Loved her take on the magical tour: “a little belated” She is a PUMA too!
And I agree with her tack – been using it too. When I go to PUMA actions and they ask you “who’re you gonna vote for? Mccain? I say: No, Hillary – primary process not complete”
I haven’t llistened yet, but from reading comments..I don’t think Lanny said that Hillary wanted us to “cut it out”….and he’s probably one of the closest people too her. Don’t you think he would have mentioned that? What motivation would he have not to if that’s really how she felt.. I’ve got to listen, but to me it doesn’t sound like he was all that bad….I haven’t heard anyone say he told us to “get over it” and “get in line”…don’t know…got to go listen for myself….
Oh RD… How can we make them see (although me thinks they already secretly do)… It must be tough to be stuck in a box like a four-day-old German pizza…Being confined to keeping promises that give you horrid heartburn or big fat blood blisters… It feels fab to be wild and free like a PUMA doesn’t it? 🙂
— SCL
Swannie: You may be correct on the exposure but I have to say that when Lanny, for whatever reason, begins to give Obama credit for being “impressive”, I have to walk away. How can he possibly say this? He knows what Obama is like, he recognizes that his “wins” are fabricated, he even went so far to instruct us that his caucus wins total 5%.
For someone who knowingly admits that the media was in the tank from the beginning, that the Clinton’s have been sorely smeared, that the votes since March were heavily in favor of Hillary Clinton, to turn on a dime as say he now believes this candidate to be “impressive” shocks the system.
If this is “doing what he had to do” that should be followed with “for what?” That is like saying that my cross eyed child is much prettier than the one who won the beauty contest.
amazing that he said the caucus turn-out was 5%. that’s who decided this primary.
Gary, at least until I ran off Lanny didn’t tell us to stop doing this. In fact he repeatedly insisted that he respects us. He never implied that we were Republicans either.
But there was still something condescending and Off-Putting about his side of the conversation.
Ohio:
Great (Blue) minds think simultaneously alike.
Hit the road Jack
garychapelhill: you make a really good point. I think he would have said that if it were the case.
Rico? Is the ejection seat ready?
We seem to have a troll that doesn’t know jack shit.
I agree with Pat.
How can Obama be unqualified on May 20 and be qualified and get Lanny’s support on June 1.
One thing that the official PUMA representatives don’t discuss is our objecttion to Obama. I suppose keeping the issue only on the DNCprocess has value, but for me it is also Obama. Iwill never support him.
BostonBoomer — I printed off a copy of last night’s post for my folks. My dad read it straight through and was very impressed. He’d been thinking along those lines but was very interested in the details from the diagnostic manual combined with the details of where Obama’s behavior fit into it.
Nobody asked him what Hillary thought, but I bet he would have said that she supports Obama.
NH: “the official PUMA representatives don’t discuss is our objecttion to Obama.”
(nodding HOW do they plan to get the unelectable candidate elected?
I guess Lanny’s a pragmatist and has to work for a living. The fact that he came to talk to us, did not tell us to get over it, call us Repubs, etc. says a lot. He did call Dean out on his lcak of leadership, though. Nice touch.
If Carol is still around tell her there’s another $50.00 for Hillary as of 10:04pm. GeorgeCat can eat generic cat food and I’ll eat the rest of the good stuff, can’t be any worse than Spam! Right?
I’m tired of looking for drids and drabs of hope from what Lanny or others say. It sounds like that hold out of eternal hope we’ve all had for lost lovers.
I’m not angry at anyone who believes him. I’m just worn out with Uhbabble’s whole show. I’m po’d that I can’t afford to get to Denver, because I live on SSDI.
When Hillary said we would have good healthcare I knew she meant it and it included me. When Obama even mentions it, and it seems like it’s been forever, the “we” is royal, as in his family.
If there are any PUMAs in tundra of northern MN, please send them my way!
NH,
Ya think? Of course she does, because she’s smart. She’s not going to commit political suicide. She’s not going to support McCain. She’s a Democrat. Unlike most of you here.
Obama is as much a Republican as McCain. To beat us over the heads with that argument is becoming hollow. He indicated his disdain for the Clinton’s but continually praised Reagan. He is looking at a possible Repub for a running mate. He has openly adopted some Repub positions since June all to the dismay of his rock solid supporters. To threaten us to vote for Obama simply because we want a Dem in the WH is becoming specious. He is courting them.
Pat, I agree , but i expected him to tow the party line, I truly did … So he had to say something good about him. I dont know how either , but he did. And I have to say he didnt sound sincere. I had the strange feeling and still have the feeling he had another agenda that he couldn’t speak out loud , and truth be told I kept womdering of Hillary was listening as well 🙂
the official answer will always be that Hillary supports the democratic nominee. if she has a more nuanced opinion in private, I would think that as a friend Lanny would not divulge it. as I suppose that’s as it should be…..sigh…….
RD: Are you here? My candidate for Satire on a Budget is even more low budget than SM’s! I’m not even on a shoe string–I’m on dental floss.
Sorry guys but David Ortiz just hit a HR.
(Couldn’t resist!)
Lanny’s visit was disappointing. I knew I could come over here and find some sanity. The highlights for me were his bashing of Howard Dean and his admission that the RBC meeting was a debacle. My question for Lanny is: WHY DIDN’T ANYONE FIGHT THAT ON PRINCIPLE THEN?! It confirmed that the DNC and Obama were corrupt and illegitimate. So, how can I possibly “get on board” with that? Just suck it up and vote Democrat is their response.
The low-points were Lanny’s strange support for Obama’s FISA hypocrisy. I wish someone had asked him about Hillary’s vote. Also, he said several times that he was increasingly “impressed” with Obama since he won the nomination, and how he handled himself on his European trip. EXCUSE ME? That is when I felt he was being completely disingenuous. How can ANYONE be impressed with the stumbling, bumbling and narcissistic Obama parade? Seriously–even Donna Brazile said he has had a poor start in the GE.
Lanny’s bottom line was: I’m worried about the Supreme Court, and he’s a Democrat. He kept returning to that as his justification for supporting him when Sherri or Will brought up specific concerns about BO’s lack of experience, weak character and judgment.
He was also dishonest about a contested Convention being “unproductive.” Since when is democracy in action unproductive?
Blah…Thanks for a quick response Riverdaughter. I needed a truthsayer antidote.
Also, what’s with the Obama bump from his “LOVE ME TOUR” via the daily Gallup tracking poll? Just goes to show that propaganda is truly effective–stage a large phony adoring crowd, and the sheep “baaaaa” there way to the line.
MABlue: Score please.
Obama is a narcissistic power monger , and he will throw the democratic party under the bus as easily as any thing or anyone …wait.. he has already hasn’t he ……………..
Gary,
He didn’t say get over it. He said he repected what we are doing, he just disagrees. He also sounding like he was getting convinced by some of the arguments. He kept say “that’s a very good point.” He also said he is still “grieving” about Hillary not being the nominee.
OMG, I forget to put on the game. Are the sox ahead now?
Oooh, 7-0 sox.
Pat:
7-0. We’re crushing ’em
fif: I think Lanny being “impressed” with Obama’s FISA vote was a clue for us that he [Lanny] is playing the game. And I think his repetition of the supreme ct. meme was him telling us what clothespin he was going to use to hold his nose.
Hmmm. If most of us aren’t Democrats, then why should we be voting for a presumptuous Democratic nominee?
Epic fail on logic there Jackshit
bostonboomer? Did you see my message to you?
Okay so I don’t get that Lanny went on and on about how he’s now warmed up to the messiah and was praising him like crazy BUT basically slammed Dean when he sited that the Party’s lack of leadership led to the chosen one being where he is today.
Was THAT part of the script? And if so who’s? Or was that part at least his TRUE feelings coming out? Since Obie and Dean are part and parcel. I just thought that was strange.
If they attempt to silence Hillary and her supporters in Denver, no matter how insignificant it is, they should just get all their flag waving and worshipful hoopla out of the way that night since there will not be a repeat in November.
Once the public gets a closer look at the machinations of this current group of thieves, and remember, there are a lot of people out there who do not follow this stuff as closely as we do here, they will surely be turned off.
He will be able to count on the AAs, the college kids, and those whose income levels are above 180,000. Good luck with all that since most of us will have already turned the page.
NH — I thought Mary Lou made that point quite well, and right after Lanny said she was his favorite Clinton person wherever she was.
Maybe I’m just delusional, or hearing things that aren’t there, but I think Lanny’s ‘impressed me’ riff was something he had to come up with to explain why, after hammering on Obama in the primaries, he could switch his support. He spent at least half his defense of Obama echoing Hillary — that we can’t have a Repub in the WH for the next 4 years. And the way he worded it, I took him to mean that Obama had ‘impressed him’ in that he now sees Obama is cutthroat enough to win. Ok, so he didn’t say that but he worded is ambiguously enough that it was hardly a ringing endorsement.
The longtime party players have to survive a different set of rules than we do, Hillary included. If she wants her agenda for us promoted over the next several years, she can’t be seen as the one dividing the party. I figure Lanny’s part of that train.
I, however, am on a different train entirely. The best way, the only way really left to me, is to not support the DNC in any way, shape or form and to speak up about it until they listen.
katiebird…maybe he just is a little snobby…I mean he hobnobs with ex presidents and other power brokers…he probably felt that it was a little beneath him …perhaps somebody even asked him to do it as a favor, you know, at least let us know that she doesn’t agree with the way we’ve been treated…..I don’t know its all very strange..
trist: Idunno. Lots of pieces don’t make sense to me. For being the world’s greatest Democracy, a heckofalot goes on in secret. Maybe Obie & Dean aren’t tight after all. Idunno.
Gary, I’d be astonished if he wasn’t a snob. So, I guess I really don’t have too much to complain about. He was quite nice to Will. Asking him what he eats for breakfast…
I am impressed that he talked to us.
(shaking my head) I guess I’m hard to please.
I guess I would expect a more tepid endorsement that hearing how “impressive” Obama has become. Impressive does not mean he has gained any more smarts, experience, or qualifications to be POTUS. Impressive could also mean he carries a handkerchief instead of tissues. Don’t try to ram that crapola down my throat.
Katiebird,
No I didn’t see your message. Was it an e-mail? If so, I didn’t get it.
Lanny was very respectful. It seemed to me that he was taking one for the team by presenting weak unity arguments that we wouldn’t like, but mixing stronger points in with them. He strongly criticized Howard Dean for messing things up and called the RBC meeting a debacle. His pushing of the Hillary-as-VP position makes more sense to me now. Not that he or she wants that, but it’s a vehicle for making the argument to the delegates that BO is the wrong nominee and that he will lose the election.
SophieL
I tell ya, it totally feels like the twilight zone these days. I just keep expecting Rod to come out at some point.
he did say he was impressed that O threw the blogger boyz under the bus over Fisa
Would I be considered a “snob” for hanging around with people on this blog?
“But there was still something condescending and Off-Putting about his side of the conversation.”
I completely agree Katiebird. He sounds like a tired politico: “Look, it’s all corrupt, but you just have to cut your losses and go with the lesser of two evils.”
No we don’t, and NO WE WON’T.
Guys, I repeat, Lanny is a messenger. He was sent here to connect with us and try to persuade us to see *their* reason. Like Rendell, I understand that he was loyal to Clinton to the end. And I understand that he and others are in a tight spot. But we have always said this is not just about Hillary. It is our right to have political representation both at the convention and for the forseeable future. The party apparatus is determined to deny it. I understand what Lanny was trying to say but his arguments all came off exceedingly weak with me. If his intention was to insult our intelligence and make us dig in harder, mission accomplished.
Pat, impressive could also mean he’s an a$$hole of universal proportions as opposed to just run-of-the-mill galactic proportions
.
No, BB it’s a comment at 10:14 (magic — it’s only 9:33 here!)
state, he implied that because ted kennedy was put into nomination that we got Reagan
he did say he was impressed that O threw the blogger boyz under the bus over Fisa
But why is that “impressive?” He throws anyone and anything under the bus if it serves his current purposes. That’s not impressive, it’s repellent.
Maybe Lanny was the warm up act — their first step to convert us. Y’know, don’t say too much that would piss us off, find common ground, establish trust, yada yada. Then the next time, or next person, they erode a little…until we’re boiled frogs.
“he implied that because ted kennedy was put into nomination that we got Reagan”
That’s just silly. Reducing an entire election to THAT — absurd!
But I just can’t get into the idea that the convention is closed already. What kind of anti-Democratic shit is that? It really is a coronation. I don’t want any part of it.
Don’t be too hard on Lanny, he’s just doing his job.
Hillary and her supporters in the party leadership have to put on a show of complete loyalty to the Obamessiah, otherwise it will be used against them in 2012.
The Obots will blame us for the failure of The Precious to ascend into the Oval Office anyway, and that will probably be their excuse to savage and sabotage Hillary in four years.
But they aren’t real Democrats anyway, they’re GOPers who are trying to pull off a hostile takeover of our party.
I think that Lanny was smart enough to recognize that the questions posed by both Shari and Will were not designed to support his position. He apparently knew when to cut and run.
Hey Katiebird,
Your dad sounds cool. I’m glad he liked the post. Sorry I missed your comment. I’m really pooped. I have to go to bed now, so I can get up at 5:30 tomorrow.
Have a nice night, everyone!
Let me float this one…
What if Sen. Clinton has cut a deal with Team O for a slot on the Supreme Court?
(Via BTD at TalkLeft) Given Cass Sunstein’s influence with Sen. Obama, the hint that Sunstein will be Obama’s first choice for SCOTUS should Sen. Obama ever win the White House, and Sunstien’s unrelenting apologies for the Bush administration’s unitary executive corruption and abuse of power, the SCOTUS argument holds even less water for me than ever,
But…Justice Hillary Clinton could potentially knock some sense into everyone by upholding the rule of law.
Of all the people who would require constitutionality and a return to the tripart government, Sen. Clinton has the brains and the guts to do it. She would stand up to these bastards and as a justice, would be immune to the back and forth of electoral politics.
Not my preference certainly and this ain’t over until it’s over. But I have wondered about it.
Just a thought. Ooo, dinner for Ohio.
Lanny also talked about his anger over the “media’s” smear of the Cintons as racists, even mentioning the “fairy tale” argument. I wanted to scream: What about the Obama campaign’s (ie: Jesse Jackson Jr’s memo) and Donna B’s fueling of the “fairy tale” farce in fueling and perpetuating these smears???
You know I just have to laugh at the “have it BOTH ways” mentality of the messiah AND his supporters. First they say there’s only like 5 of us so we’re meaningless, THEN turn right around and say Hillary need to come out and denounce us.
LOL They can’t even make up their mind if they should dismiss us or fear us.
Though I think both those responses come out of fear.
myiq: With all due respect, when The Precious loses in November, I am not taking the blame. I’m taking the credit.
I just wanted you to know — I’m glad I caught you.
Sleep well, and have a good day tomorrow. Are you back in the classroom?
you know, Lanny Davis’ livelihood and that of Ed Rendell depend on staying in the good graces of the democratic party. so they can only have a counter opinion up to a point, and then they fall in line.
SophieL,–
Maybe Lanny was the warm up act — their first step to convert us. Y’know, don’t say too much that would piss us off, find common ground, establish trust, yada yada. Then the next time, or next person, they erode a little…until we’re boiled frogs.
I’m waiting to see Dean himself come on one of these shows!
nycstray,
I understand..
I have a difficult time commenting because I have to share computer time with my kids…
Anyway, I find your commentary any most of the commentary’s here at the Confluence to be so much more articulate and talented when it comes to communicating information that we all should be aware of.
So, I may seem like a comment and dash person. I am however, trying to share comp time with my kids.
I want to thank RD and all of the other intelligent and fun contributors here at the Confluence for being here… The community you have built is beyond what words can or could describe…
Rock on PUMA! You all are the best!
Thanks for being here!!
I want some credit too 🙂 Sophie I am looking forward to it … one of my dearest wishes is to see the rat creep home to chicago with his tail between his legs
I would applaud any politician or talking head who tells the truth. Like: “Look we all agree that his is a sham. The candidate who is being rammed down your throats is a total waste of time, energy, money. The other guy is just as bad. We know what we are facing, a choice of one or the other abominations. We let the best qualified go. Now we are left with this mess. So voters, it is up to you. I will say no more. I will no longer sit here and spin this tripe into silk because that is just more bullsh*t and you all know better. So come November, good luck all. Either way, it looks pretty bleak.”
Then I would feel much, much better.
Ohio: that’s an interesting possibility I hadn’t considered.
Ohio—
At this point I personally don’t care what kind of “deal” they may have offered Hillary. I want to her her become Pres. but MORE than that I want to send a message to the DNC they CAN’T TREAT PEOPLE THIS WAY!!!
That supersedes EVERYTHING else for me!
I understand what Lanny was trying to say but his arguments all came off exceedingly weak with me. If his intention was to insult our intelligence and make us dig in harder, mission accomplished.
Right on Riverdaughter.
What’s even dumber about that comparison is that 1.) Kennedy felt confident enough to challenge Carter after having won many of the bigger D and swing states. Clinton won many more than Kennedy and she’s gotta sit on her hands? 2.) Kennedy had far, far fewer total delegates than Carter. With the *correct* allocation of delegates, Obama and Clinton are separated by less than 100 pledged delegates. With superdelegates, she has every reason to expect the nomination as much, or more than Obama. 3.) The party is not unified. If Obama is crowned in Denver, it will be even less unified. He won’t get our support unless he is seen to have won it legitimately with ample debate, nominations for BOTH candidates and a roll call vote. Or several roll call votes. 4.) If Obama isn’t a coward, he would readily agree to it. However, we have seen ample evidence throughout the campaign that Obama is the worst kind of coward.
Pat: Wow! I would give that talking head a standing O.
Jack: Your concern about embarrassing Senator Clinton is touching and a complete surprise. Why don’t you contact each and every one of your blogging cohorts and tell them to stop using words like c*nt and b*tch to describe Senator Clinton and/or her supporters? Nasty little Obama trolls add so much to his luster as a candidate.
BTW, I suspect Limbaugh is enchanted with the illegitimate Democratic nominee. He’s hit the mother-lode thanks to Obamanation stupidity and DNC corruption.
RD: Obama’s MO is to run unopposed.
hey Pat? listen to right wing talk radio. they pretty much say that every day.
Our course of action is now quite clear. Remember the walkout scene from “Animal House” when DEAN WORMER (how apt) is telling them that there’ll be “No more Delta House at Faber” and they’re all whistling and giving him the finger? Hillary’s name had better be on the ballot, on the nomination roll call, or we are “all done with the DNC”.
He can run unopposed but when he feels the wind at his back it won’t be momentum but the sound of us fleeing in droves. And one more “spinner” attempting to change my mind is not going to work. The only time I am “impressed” is by the essays on this blog who spell it out in plain English. Not once have we ever had a “say what?” moment as the clarity is crystal clear.
SophieL—
RD: Obama’s MO is to run unopposed.
YUP! Why fight fair when you can fight dirty?
But unless he really is in place by divine intervention from Rove and certain Repubs, just goes to show you Dems can’t even fight dirty and win! Since they’ve alienated enough of the party to ensure a Nov loss.
Sorry but this party SUCKS!
I didn’t say it would be our fault, I said they were going to blame us.
Hillary won’t be making deals with The Precious.
He can’t be trusted to keep the bargain.
What I find interesting right now is how Ted Kennedy flipped over the years.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.
Obama’s black.
It’s the 45th anniversary of MLK’s I Have A Dream speech.
It’s the 40th anniversary of RFK’s assassination.
Nothing
Else
Matters
There are no other logical reasons to support BHO.
That’s why nobody can give any.
Because they can’t admit the only thruth.
He’s black.
Trumps everything else for the DNC.
As long as he doesn’t change colors, he’s their nominee.
Riverdaughter…mawm and I were just talking about that, and mawm brought up a good point. They have adopted the Republican rule—never back down EVER!!!!.. They aren’t fighting against putting her name into nomination because they are afraid necessarily, and they’re certainly not doing it for the principle, but because it would be a giving in, a sign of weakness, and that’s the golden rule you never break…just like Bush.
Riverdaughter & Conflucians –
PLEASE check out my Satire on a Budget moment for Lanny above & RD, please cut & paste into your article.
Just once I would love to hear someone with enough clout to tell Obama and the DNC to kiss their a**. Just once. It would be so refreshing for a change to hear it like it is instead of the ridiculous reasons thrown out there. McCain is this, Obama is that. Right, they are whatever is being said. Moronic arguments as if they were talking to 7th graders about the importance of hygeine.
GeorgeCatSez $50
Thank you George for your deepest consideration!
Total:
$50.00
PUMA$ Who Donate Rule!
RD, if you decide to use the image, just delete my post above.
If they deny Hillary’s name be placed into nom. would delegates STILL be able to vote for her?
I’m just wondering what would happen if they voted, and enough delegates switched to her that she actually wins the nom. but because they wouldn’t allow her name into nomination, it’s meaningless.
That would cause they type of outrage where I could actually see people storming out of the convention and Hillary FINALLY having the scenario to say “F-THIS! The people spoke, they chose me, but if you “leaders” in this party will deny the will of it’s constituents, I’m walking. She then runs as a Indy and wins this thing! No one could blame her then.
SM is he grabbing his crotch in that first pic?????
Carol, I’ve been waiting for a ‘live’ thread (I usually get time to log on here long after everyone is in bed) to tell you to add 50$ from Sima to the donation kitty.
I donated this a few days back, but never got the chance to tell you.
Lanny Davis has pissed me off. When I get paid there’ll be another 50$ (maybe that was his goal?).
Katie, The next step in that logic then would be to have no convention at all.
NO!!! That’s a paste up of General Patton’s portrait – he’s holding a whip – although if he’s holding his whip….
That’s the ugliest clown I have ever seen
SM: Very good!
we need to get Bill on blogtalkradio.
MYIQ: Because yours are the most beautiful and scary, but BEAUTIFUL! Lanny is an O clown, the ugliest.
josgirl— you’re right that the timing of the acceptance speech says it all!! This thing as been in the works for years.
But I think they wanted to use it MORE as catalyst for getting blacks to the polls than anything else. They created this “fairytale” (yeah I’ll use that term with him!) and then pushed the idea on the voters to get THEM to make the story come true.
I really wish I could have talked with Lanny, I wanted to tell him how disgusted I am at the way the DNC has used the black vote this year. We’ve ALWAYS been taken for granted but THIS year we were out and out USED!
” It never ‘hurt the party’ to put the males into nomination EVERY OTHER CONVENTION. Can’t they see how utterly repulsive their actions are???”
Women are ALWAYS held to a different standard….and supposed to like it too, I guess.
Trist, I’ve dreamed of such a situation at the convention too. The delegates come to their senses…
But it’s all rigged. Rigged. Obama has changed out his delegates to make them even more committed. A bunch of the final Clinton delegates weren’t appointed at their final state caususes until after end of May. So… they probably aren’t that committed as Clintonistas but are more ‘any way the wind blows politicos’.
Bleh. Oh well, at least I like McCain. Don’t wanna vote for him, but I like him as a person. He’s funny (German resturant, haha!)
I disagree completely with sm77 graphic. I am embarrassed and ashamed by it.
SophieL —-
we need to get Bill on blogtalkradio.
YEAH!!!! I want to send him a PUMA t-shirt at least! ^_^
SM: Nice job. I have one too, not as nice of a job, though. I don’t know how to get it to anyone.
Pat – thanks! I”m SOOOOOOOOOOOO F___ING MAD AT LANNY RIGHT NOW.
NH, what makes you embarassed by it?
You think he’s fighting our fight after that interview?
SM: My fingers were beating like crazy at blogradio.
SophieL – you have a clown tooo? OMG, we are having a kismic moment!
Sima,—-
I tell ya, I NEVER thought I could vote Repub, and I was never a fan of McCain, I respected his service, but didn’t much care for him. Not that I really knew much about him. But I have NO problem going for him if that’s the choice I’m left with. Because the ONLY way Obama is setting foot in that Oval Office, if it’s on public tour!
sm77 where is the graphic – I can’t see it?
SM: No, I don’t have a clown. I have a different take on the Lanny thing.
Pat – I called & hung up like 3 times. I thought that I’d lose my cool and when I heard Sheri & Will kick azzz, they had said & asked everything I wanted to anyway.
Sima $50 Thanks so much.
Total:
$100
PUMA$ Who Donate Rule!
sm77, Lanny never said he was fighting our fight. He stated up front in the interview his reasons for supporting Obama. I don’t agree with his rationale, and I wish I could have spoken to him, but he stated many times that he respected our postion. So I don’t appreciate the graphic.
Y’all it was just an idle thought. And frankly, myiq, I agree—it’s unlikely Obama would follow through on any deal. I wouldn’t be surprised what hooks he’s baited, though.
RD I’m totally with you re: the convention. Sen. Obama’s only shot at unifying the party is to allow a legitimate process. So why not support that process? What is he so afraid of?
Afraid he’ll lose, of course.
And the Not Backing Down thing—if only these fauxgressives would apply that to fighting for progressive principles. How’s about not backing down on universal healthcare, civil rights, and finding Osama bin Laden? How about a little thing called impeachment? How about protecting a woman’s right to choose? How about full faith and credit regarding marriage? How about—jeeus cripes, it’s a long list.
How about these trolls spend one-hundredth of their energy fighting for those issues and leave us bitter deadenders in peace? Afterall, there are only five of us and how many more insults can they come up with? I mean, we’re bound to capitulate any second and see the light of the great Awesomeness.
Okay, enough. Apologies for the blogclogging.
I will end with a joke:
Knock knock.
Who’s there?
Knock knock.
Who’s there?
Knock knock.
Who’s there
Philip Glass.
I hated that he went from such a staunch Hillary Commander and folded up like a ball.
I HOPE TO GOD that Hillary doesn’t take his advice, despite their lengthy friendship.
trist, I’ve always thought that the overwhelming support of the black community was something of a myth.
In the primaries, O had 2/3 of the CBC.
You’d think if he had 90% of the black vote overall, the black support of the people who work with him should have been derned near unanimous.
The number of self-identified black people I see on anti-O blogs gives you something to think about.
Great graphic, SM. Hey has anyone jumped over the Clownhaus (aka Myiq2xu’s pad)? He has some terrific clown art that appears to have some pretty sophisticated altered artwork. Maybe Myiq could do something to add to these hallowed walls of Confluence.
I don’t think that pic of Lanny as a clown is fair. He came on into hostile territory, and while didn’t say anything anyone wanted to hear, was respectful. So he deserves respect. I don’t want to be looked at as hating on people like the culties do.
josgirl—-
Don’t you think that the majority of the racist charges are NOT coming from blacks? Okay the high profile ones on tv. But average people. Maybe it’s me, but it seems like mostly it’s Obama liberal white supporters making those charges against other whites.
Hey everyone!
Jeezus, I couldn’t believe how Lanny flat-out lied on BTR. And of course, he never explained how Obama was qualified to be President!
Ok, if it offends the sensibilities of Conflucians – I’ll take it down.
I still think that it’s DESPICABLE he suggest that Hillary’s name not be on the Nomination Ballot.
And for that – I LOST TOTAL RESPECT FOR HIM.
I think that the reason Lanny pointed to the FISA vote was to emphasize that BO went against “his base”, and they cannot trust him on something that is important to them or, by extension, anything else. I don’t think that was directed at us.
One of my posts need to me moderated. For who ever is in chage of that.
Ooops sorry for the spelling errors! ^_^
Of course Lanny agrees with PUMA… the man is not dumb.
He cannot say it though… and I respect the big friggin brass cajones he has walking into the lions den.
You have to remember, PUMA is a political organizations worst nightmare…
1. we are highly educated especially about politics and the political process
2. we are highly motivated
3. our central focus is not a policy platform or a political action so they can’t just make us a dumb campaign promise to appease us
4. they already took away our party and our candidate(s), so we have nothing to lose… so we have no reason to stop.
Honestly, we scare the shit out of them.
Robin – You think?
I was so angry when he said that. It took “courage” to be a liar and a sell-out? What kind of spin is that? And to insist that Obama is a progressive? Give me a freaking break! What progressive votes AGAINST the Fourth Amendment?
There was only one right way to vote on that bill, and Our Girl voted that way.
No excuses. No substitutes. Hillary or bust!
josgirl, i agree with that simplified reason for his success.
Let’s hope and pray that in the privacy of the voting booth, the public will vote their conscience.
Americans can only be fooled with so much. I read that Europeans don’t aren’t really taken with him. They wouldn’t like ANY new president. So what?
madamab—-
he never explained how Obama was qualified to be President!
Don’t you think we’d STILL be waiting for him to come up with something if he tried to? LOL!
Texas – that’s not what I heard. I heard a DNC safe guy that was sent by the Obama Campaign to smooth our fur down.
F__K that. HE mentioned Hillary not on the Nomination Ballot as if that were the solution to “unify” – especially after HE HIMSELF fought for Ted Kennedy. ANd yes, you’re damn straight that it brought the Reagan years. Had Ted Kennedy been nominated – Reagan would still been in California.
I won’t accept any of the DNC CLOWNS to talk us into not having Hillary on the ballot.
trist – LOL! He would have had to stay on that show for 6 months!
SM: This is my take on
how the Obots got to Lanny
sm77—–
I still think that it’s DESPICABLE he suggest that Hillary’s name not be on the Nomination Ballot.
That I TOTALLY agree with!!! I actually wanted to do a vid about it. About how people even just suggest it. As if Hillary is a sweater that Obama is deciding whether he needs to put on before going outside. It’s the way the media AND his supporters phrase it. “should he take her” “Will he use her” It’s as if the decision is ENIRELY his! HELLO! Hillary is an actual person with a mind and choices and free will! Not an object! Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
madamab, on July 27th, 2008 at 11:14 pm Said:
Robin – You think?
————————-
I really do. There was no other reason for him to bring up FISA.
We have to recognize that these people are professional politicians. They win some, they lose some. They recognize that the chances are no matter who gets into office no real bolts of lightning are going to strike from the Heavens above. They are used to having their back scratched by the people that they just scratched. This is their daily activity, their livelihood, their game.
We on the other hand watch and wonder in astonishment how they just don’t get it. None of them really ever do their job. Sitting here yesterday watching the Senate Floor, 15 or so Senators did not show up to vote on a bill that was going to help the economy from tanking tomorrow – BO was one of them – it interferred with his world tour. They were all in private conversation standing and milling around the chamber. Is this any way to conduct business, the business of the world? I say it is time to teach them the lesson that respect and integrity for the process should be the code of conduct expected and a perfect attendence record.
Punishment, Retribution and Reform 2008
That’s Just Me
Hello Conflucians, how are you this evening?
Oooops Sorry my above post was responding to the VP position NOT the ballot!
Sophie – THAT’S AN AWESOME GRAPHIC!!!!
But it may offend some COnflucians as they still see him as a “Friend.”
I DON’T – he’s a DNC CLOWN.
It was just my take on how he flipped so completely after being a pit bull for the Clintons.
SHERI TAG! OMG, what an amazing show. You and Will were really fantastic with Lanny Davis. I am in awe!
“…isn’t that just wonderful. It never “hurt the party” to put the males into nomination EVERY OTHER CONVENTION. Can’t they see how utterly repulsive their actions are???”
Right on, state. Isn’t it a glorious that the first time we get a woman candidate as powerful as this one, we deny her the same right always offered to male candidates? And that not only men but two women, Donna and Nancy, are actively involved in shutting her out? How do they think this is going to register with me? What makes them think this injustice will bind me ever more closely to the Party?
But I will say this for Dean and crew: As a result of their actions, I have never felt my vote to be more precious and worthwhile. I have never held it in my hand the way I hold it now, and seen it for what it is:
My vote is my good name. My vote is my will held up for the world to see. My vote is my conscience. My vote is my hope. My hope is a statement of who I am. My vote is a permission slip to power. My vote is not a gesture, a throw-away or compromise. My vote is real.
Hi sherri! I very seldom post here though I read a LOT and I love your show! I actually got my MOM to tune into you today! Nice to “meet” you! ^_^
sayitisntso, tokenism has long been part of politics as we all know, but the Republicans have raised it to an art form in the past few years.
This is the DNC way to trump them.
“I’ll see your Secreatary of State and raise you a president!”
It’s a big political p*ssing contest.
Same intra-party.
DLC/DFA p*ssing contest.
2 birds with one stone.
I tried my best to give him the deal.
Has anyone received their HRC Tshirts? I haven’t.
Can we have Hillary back now?
Taggles – I”M PISSED OFF – and how are you doing?
THANK YOU for doing a GREAT interview with Lanny Davis – you and Will said everything I wanted to say – without the bad words.
SM did you do that axelrod and lanny pic too??? that one is hilarious!!!
Magdalena – that was beautiful!
Very true!
Great job Sherri, and Will!
thanks for the kind words trist, and SM why are you so pissed off?
Sophie L – did that one, Gary. ISN’t it great??
Although we have a few people here who consider Lanny a friend still. I SURE AS HECK DON’T.
Look, I said earlier that I felt Lanny was the pragmatic type. I respect that he was willing to talk to us. But I also do not get how he could have fought FOR Kennedy and not Clinton.
Y’know, America’s recent history is weird. Each time it should have been a slam dunk for Democrats, the powers-that-be decide to float the most ineffectual guy.
All the democratic operatives like Lanny and the Clintons, to some degree, are doing the bidding of whoever holds the reigns of power in the party. At this time it’s Dean & Co. I’m not dissing Hillary and Bill but they’re team players and until Dean & Co. listen to us and put Hillary on the ballot and allow a floor vote, they’re going to do the bare minimum to keep the party from putting them on an iceflow and pushing.
This doesn’t mean we have to do anything because they don’t own us and can’t control us. We have our vote and we can do whatever we want.
They can take away our freedom of speech (free speech zones) and our ability to vote (voter fraud) but they can’t fabricate our vote.
I missed the early part of the show. Did Lanny comment on the issue of Hillary being placed into nomination?
Yeah he did and he said it shouldn’t happen. I think first he said it wasn’t standard practice then said we need to unify and that would be counter productive.
Good night everyone. Again, Sheri, great job. You and Will said everything that needed to be said.
Taggles – Lanny proved to be a real big disappointment for me. I commented earlier that how dare he even say that Hillary’s name on the ballot is “dis-unity?” IT’S DEMOCRACY – and I could give a rat’s behind on Ted Kennedy ‘s convention fight bringing on the Reagan years.
Had Ted won the nomination, Ted would’ve been president.
Robin—-
Great job Sherri, and Will!
Yeah, but I wish Will was more talkative, he’s so quiet. You sometimes forget he’s there! LOL
And he’s so informed on this stuff, I want more in put from him
Good Night madamab!
For those that did not hear last night the pledged delegate from CA – a petition is being signed to put her name into nomination – it takes 300 signatures and cannot be overridden by DNC.
Additionally, he said keep up the noise – make it louder and more frequent.
Additionally, here is where I think we can hit them:
I want to know, and I think we demand an answer to what “official, legal duty the Super Delegates” are required to perform by virtue of their office.
Asking them to do the right thing and demanding it are two different things.
What SAY YOU?
PUMA$ Who Donate Rule!
basically he just said it would hurt the party, that we need to focus on getting Obama elected.
good night madamab!
taggles – I didn’t know you were Sherri.
tag, i thought you were really patient … you had a lot of good questions and points to make, I think he’s just decided to tow the party line because it’s in his best interest at this point and I don’t think he sees any alternative …
i think he was trying to gently let us down … i didn’t get the idea he was thinking he was going to change any minds … i think he just thought the obama thing was inevitable at this point, he kept saying HIllary is a good team player, I think she’s just not going to fight for it because she thinks in the long run she’ll loose …
since we’re all outsiders, we don’t have anything to loose, I don’t like the idea that folks try to justify what they’ve done as it’s really not selling out when it kinda is … but again, maybe he thinks he can work inside the party to change the primary system, i didn’t see him as a cheerleader for Obama, he just said something to the effect that you have to go with the least evil here …
I think at this point it would take a REAL big person to try to buck the party … for us outsiders, we don’t loose anything being on the right side … i think this so sucks …
Here’s the thing…the primary was divisive. The electorate split. Why do we have to pretend that isn’t so? Why hide from democracy? What is that supposed to prove? Further, Hill already told that group of supers she wanted to put her name up for nomination for Chelsea(which i take to mean for the next generation of women), so we know what Hill wants. How can Lanny pretend that isn’t so? This entire display is going to leave a very dark mark on the history of the Democratic Party. he isn’t the nominee yet. He did not win the requisite number of delegates. Thus we must have a vote!
SophieL—
Y’know, America’s recent history is weird. Each time it should have been a slam dunk for Democrats, the powers-that-be decide to float the most ineffectual guy.
Yeah it DOES seem that they want to lose doesn’t it? Really I wonder if there’s some type of phobia at play here!
Fear of responsibility maybe?
I would say it’s better to be the wronged victim then just criticize the ones in power. But they won’t even stand up and do THAT!
Aren’t you guys being too tough on Lenny?
Maybe it was a matter of expectation but I actually found it a matter of acknowledgement and respect that he show up at blog talkradio. He sure wasn’t going to sing our tunes because he’s part of the top brass and too close to HRC.
He may have been clumsy here and there but I wasn’t expecting him to declare himself leader of a guerilla movement. Even if he wanted to, because it will be blamed on Hillary.
I may be missing something here and I muss confess that I listen to him while watching baseball.
i wonder if he talked to us with or without hillary’s knowledge…
dakinikat, did you notice he said he respects us and he did NOT say to stop what we are doing. I think that’s important and he said he understood our position.
masslib: exactly! Everything you said.
dakinikat…I think that’s precisely why we DO have to fight against the systerm, because we have no power within it….so we have two opposite strategies…I don’t think it sucks though…because we are disrupting their plans..and remember it won’t take very much disruption at all to keep him out of the white house…which regardless of the outcome of Denver is now my primary objective….
dakinikat—-
i wonder if he talked to us with or without hillary’s knowledge…
I’m sure she knew. I just wonder if she was listening.
MABlue: I have nothing against Lanny and acknowledge what he’s done. He is simply a messenger. His message to us was: Give up. It’s inevitable. And our message thru him to the party is: shove Obama down our throats and you’ll be an exparty by December. We’re playing a game of chicken and we have nothing to lose by telling them what we expect.
trist: the same people that were behind Carter are behind Obama (Brezinski, Rockefeller). I hate re-runs.
I believe this was a test also to really gage the push back we would present up against someone like Hill’s best friend. I guess he found out – we are willing to take him out also (in a friendly and loving way.)
President Hillary Rodham Clinton 2008
It’s our haka.
gary … i think we’re the only ones that CAN fight the system, and I think we need to keep making our point, I really didn’t think he was unsympathetic, I think he’s not in the position –and I agree that whatever he does would come straight back at Hillary so any problem Obama has can be blamed on her. … not a good strategy in the long run … Lenny can say he talked to us, he explained the party line … and it gives him and Hillary distance …
I think we should take it to Denver still … my hope is some of the delegates that were elected can DO something … the HIllary Delegates are REALLY the ones that have some power, and I think we should give them cover
Carol: Yes, they are testing and gauging reaction
With everyone talking (accurately) about our “outsider” status, I’ve just had a small epiphany many of ya’ll probably had weeks ago:
It is the outsider who is the conscience of the group.
Yes, Lanny and others must play the game. So who is left? Who stands guard? Who doesn’t back down? Who refuses to go away and shut up?
I remember feeling this way when I was among the millions protesting the Iraq war in D.C. I knew we were loud, but not being heard. I knew we wouldn’t win. I knew the country regarded us as outsiders and unpatriotic and misguided. I knew the MSM was against us. But I knew, and all of the refuseniks there knew, that we were right.
I’m getting that same feeling now. And again, I’m not alone.
The question is, how long can a body like the DNC survive when its heart is beating outside it?
OH, I’m going to Denver. Hillary could show up at my doorstep, ask to come in for tea, and politely tell me to cease and desist, and I would still be going….
I think we need to put pressure on Obama once he gets back to the local campaign trail too … push his buttons see if he’ll implode…
protest where he shows up, see if we can get in the position to ask him tough questions
garychapelhill,—-because we are disrupting their plans
I think it is also Hillary’s plans. Remember she COULD have done what they wanted and dropped out, she didn’t have to keep putting more of her money in. She knew they would side with Obama, so why stay in? Because the longer it went on, the MORE evidence of the kind of tactics and corruption that put someone like him in and got him so close to the win couls be seen by the people who were willing to see it.
I think she believes as MUCH as we do that those people cannot get their hands on the WH, not just for the sleazy tactics, but because they’re outright dangerous!
I think she cared more about protecting this country than anything they could do to her reputation or political career.
It Was Sleazeball Obama Who Made His Weeping Wall Prayer PublicI
Ma’ariv issued a response Sunday, saying that “Obama’s note was published in Ma’ariv and other international publications following Obama’s authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem. Moreover, since Obama is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the Western Wall.
http://countusout.wordpress.com/
exactly…we’ve already given Dean a taste of it…3 stops in three days he’s been heckled….They know Obama is in for the same…that’s why they will try everything in their power to keep us out of sight.
“Impressive” is what David Letterman says when he can’t think of anything else to say.
Carol: Exactly. They want to see what we’re made of, what our resolve is, etc. Of course, they could just read the Confuence and they’d know it all.
rd:
I agree with you. He came to try to persuade us to drop our guerilla movement and join the party for the sake of harmony greater Dem goals and the usual yada yada. We said no we won’t.
I expected that from him and from us. I think there was absolutely no surprise. I simply don’t understand why he’s taking so much beating.
Some of his answers infuriated me but he’s in a tough spot and we have to recognize that.
Overall I thin he was respectful, which I also find important.
Dakinikat: Bust it’s still NO EXCUSE for Lanny to waltz in on No We Won’t radio to say that Hillary’s name on the ballot is “dis-unity” – when 28 years ago, he was busting his butt for Ted Kennedy on the convention floor for the sake of DEMOCRACY.
He’s no friend to PUMA. ANd I don’t believe that he’s testing the waters, otherwise why would he say that Hillary’s name on the ballot is wrong?
Garychapelhill,
Sorry, I was out all day after my update comment earlier today – I’d love to send you the pictures and details/info on our Atlanta PUMA infiltration of the Dean rally.
Where do I send the info to? If you can see my email address, do drop me a line and I can reply……
Obama’s ego doesn’t do well when questioned … we just need to get into a position to make that work for us … and get it captured on camera, hopefully live, where they can’t edit it out
PUMA HAKA
It’s time to create that visual! (I want feathers and a headdress, piercings and tatoos, body armor………)
sm77, i dunno, he choose his words very carefully, most of the koolaide drinkers aren’t that careful with their words, i really think he’s doing the obama thing because he’s not in a position to do otherwise, he didn’t really say we were wrong, he didn’t say anything nasty, it was a really mild set of statements … he sounded like some one with a Hobson’s choice … really
Carol!! Like a grass skirt & Maori face paint on your twin sister’s face?
chevalier, I’ll send you an email now…hopefully I can get a post up early tomorrow….thanks!
Y’know they still can’t find his birth certificate 😉
You know what I would want to ask the messiah. When was the last time he cried. I’ve seen enough of that cheshire cat grin to last a life time, but if he was asked that out of the blue no prep. time I wonder how long it would take him to come up with something.
Frankly I think the man can’t feel enough to bring tears to his eyes. He has rage for sure THAT I can see in his eyes when someone asks him something he doesn’t like, but other emotions….I’m not so sure.
Unless you count smugness.
SophieL – that would be too simple.
Also, Ray said last night that Hill knows where the money is coming from. You can bet BO knows also, and it is scaring the shit out of them.
He also said the DNC has no money, and it was a real problem that BO had to have a bigger more expensive coronation.
Who’s Ray?
Lanny is a LAWYER and one of the BEST in the country. He’s a Yale Law Graduate. He’s served as DNC head, he served under the Clinton Administration. The man is VERY SMART and very gifted. Of course he’s not going to say anything super wrong or offensive. THe DNC sent him for that reason, becuase he’s a very public Hillary supporter and we like him, sort of.
I don’t have a high opinion of him at all right now after he said Hillary’s name on the ballot is dis-unity. NO DEAL. Dis-unity is stealing votes, Lenny!
You have to have a birth certificate for a passport. They can track every passport from the first time they took him out of the country – if they were required for children back then.
sm77— how do you highlight a quote like that?
Ray – the pledged delegate from CA that was on the blogradio with Murphy last night.
My husband dn give a rip about politics. Though he has voted democratic for a long time he’s voting a straight republican ticket this time.He told me the party is dishonorable and worse than the republicans because they contend they are for the people. He cn care less what the party thinks is constructive. He finds Dean despicable.The snub of wounded soldiers by the “one” has led to the tv being turned off when his face appears on it. My husband is highly educated and in his mid-fifties. There are so many quiet people like him in the country.They will have their say.
trist,
<blockquote>Your quote</blockquote>
trist, “Umm, well, uhh, let me be clear…I’ve said this before, umm, ya know, I hope that the people…uhh, see that crying…is uhh something I’ve always… uhh, thought would change…see, the thing is, ya know, what I said was, and let me say, what I meant was, uhh, crying, per se…umm, changes hopes…and after 8 years of Bush, uhh I think, Americans are tired of, well crying…”
All I know is that these “spinners” turn on a dime.
josgirl – did ya have to do that to us?
Okay see if I can do this! ^_^
Your quote
Trist, you type in the “”
Then paste in the quote.
Then when you are done, type in the “”
josgirl: I can hear that in my head. The cadence is pitch perfect.
Carol, I was just being playful about the birth certificate so i could amuse myself…I understand that his fis father forgot to get one because he was busy registering for the census (as decreed by the Emperor Augustus).
No that didn’t work. Do I have to paste it just like yours? Or alter it at all?
josgirl, perfect!
Okay.
“”No that didn’t work. Do I have to paste it just like yours? Or alter it at all?“”
Trist – Gosh it never works for me…
Ok – first the
– to close it, same thing, except add a / before the word blockquote.
josgirl: Excellent!
hey guys, I gotta hit the sack. I understand that you don’t like or agree with what lanny said, neither do I, I hope that was clear on the show, but what are we never to have someone who disagrees with us on the show?
If anything Lanny left No We Won’t with a better idea and understanding of what PUMA really is and how determined we are.
SM:
Lanny was just presenting what is the “official” position of the Dem Party as an institution, even Hillary herself CANNOT come out and campaign for a spot on the ballot. We can fight for that in the underground and he could probably wink and nudge.
Do not expect the impossible from some of those guys.
taggles: Great show tonight. The guests were very interesting.
Grrr, okay
Do I need to use BOTH
and “”?
Trist, Katiebird taught me, look at her example & do it again
SophieL – funny – this will definately prove that the baby Jesus was black. It’s going to be tough on everyone that invested in those Blonde Haired, Blue Eyes paintings.
I think so too tag … you did a great job of explaining all the points …
I think I did it, but it was by accident! LOL!
Lets see….
By george! I think you’ve got it!
taggles: wrong message to take away from the commentary! While I did not agree with everything Lanny said, I thought he was an excellent guest on the program. Please don’t just get folks we agree with. We won’t learn a thing.
Okay I think I got it now! Sort of! LOL!
Thanks for the help! ^_^
Oooohhhh! Mel Gibson is going to be so mad!
Far be it for me to rain on the Denver soiree, but there have been times when there were factions within the D party who said shut up on segregation, Vietnam, Roe, Watergate, Iran/Contra, Bork, Ginsburg, Pentagon Papers, Clean Waters and Clean Air Acts, the list can go on forever. The important thing was that being told to shut up wasn’t good enough and as Burke said, with a little paraphrasing of my own:
There is a lesson there.
Lanny did his job, he legitimize the entire movement.
Carol, I couldn’t agree more, and nighty night for real, my eyes are slits and i gotta work in the morning,
Carol: Bingo.
You can bet your ass the 3 amigos were listening.
Taggles – ugh but OK, I never expected Lanny Davis to say that Hillary’s name on the ballot was “dis-unity”
MABlue: Lanny Davis sells himself as the independent voice who’s never afraid to speak his mind. To see him tow the line like that- especially the notion that Hillary’s name on the ballot is WRONG after everything that’s happened?? HELLZ TO THE NO. I lost the genuine respect and admiration I had for him. He thoroughly disappointed me tonight.
I guess I have to go to bed. I’m too pissed at him and will rant & rave some more.
Love you guys & see you in the morning.
I know this is up at HuffPo, but they are showing a map where in the electoral votes Obama beats McCain by 247 to 107.
I don’t think continued respect for Lanny is in any way a contradiction to PUMA carrying out its goals with passion and perseverence.
He really couldn’t have said that he respected our position, but disagreed with it, many more times than he did. He didn’t give us one single suckass riff that we’ve been getting from the real enemies of democracy — getting over it or healing or how we’re Republicans or any of that crap. And he said very little that Hillary hasn’t already said. His defense of Obama was weak; his comments (at least in two different places, maybe more) against Howard Dean and the failure of the leadership were MAJOR statements given how measured everything else he said was.
Lanny is not the enemy, he’s really not. He really is an FDR Dem. I think, strongly, that he’s absolutely wrong about the best way to achieve a return to government for the people, but I don’t doubt for a second that that is his genuine goal.
Lanny and Hillary, Ed and a host of others — they either play the game from the inside or they don’t get to play at all. Look at how hard Dean & Co. are trying to freeze Hillary out of the entire process at the same time she IS working her heart out for that bunch of traitorous jerks. Look at all the arm-twisting and threats Pelosi and Dean engaged in just to get their stampede of crap delegates at the end of the primaries.
At the end of the day, I don’t lose my job or endanger my financial future by not voting for The Big Fat Precious. And I don’t lose my influence on the party by not supporting him either (mostly because I evidently never had any influence to begin with, because the new DNC doesn’t give a crap about the base).
Lanny didn’t defend the crap caucuses or disproportional representation — quite the contrary. He was clearly uncomfortable talking to Mary Lou — he even said so.
I’m a PUMA because I’m appalled at the cr*p the DNC pulled to give us an inferior candidate; I started being a PUMA in April (I just didn’t realize it yet) when the misogyny finally put me over the edge and I decided I couldn’t vote for BO even if they amended the Constitution so that GWB could run again. My strategy is not Hillary’s strategy. It’s not Lanny’s strategy. My strategy is PUMA’s strategy, because it’s all the Democratic Party has left me with. I respect Lanny for being willing to face the fire, for his longstanding friendship with, and defense of, Hillary, and for continuing to do what he can to put the real Democratic agenda in play in the face of the overwhelming Orwellian crap being peddled by the real failures in this campaign.
And I can respect him at the same time as I think that his strategy is absolutely the wrong one.
Night sm77!
yup, it’s like they can’t believe Donna’s assertion that were a republican conspiracy or the obamabot’s insistence we’re racist …
this discussion also showed that we’re just not a bunch of angry women mad that Hillary didn’t ‘win’ …
i think that means we’re not below the radar any more, they know they have to deal with us …
i think they know some of us have to be brought into the conversation about changing the primary rules, at the very least … that seemed to get negotiated
I’m over and out also. I had a hard day removing Christmas tree ornaments. The trees are still standing – too heavy to move. I guess they will become seasonal trees.
Carol – if you are a pagan, then seems seasonal trees would be appropriate in any case.
Lanny’s “strategy”, along with others who recognize what a big jerk Obama is, only radicalizes my cynicism. I am beyond “for the sake of the party” when that party has acted so outrageously and these same people know it for a fact. I would admire anyone who is willing to put their integrity before party talking points and call a spade a spade. I don’t really care about their “careers”, no one has offered them lifetime service. These are people we hope and expect to act in our best interests and to just shrug and walk away from the pertinent issues is plain cowardly.
We need people who have the courage of their convictions, who are willing to speak out, who call out those who have put us in this position of choosing between two of the worst candidates on any national scene. I don’t care about Lanny’s job, or Ed’s next campaign, or whose self interest is best served. These are the people who can and should make a difference yet choose to stand by and let this happen without so much as a murmur.
And if it means you lose your next election, or you no longer are welcome at DNC breakfast meetings, so be it. We are not here to prop up your futures, you are here to prop up ours.
Valhalla: I think you’re right on with that comment–all points well taken.
peppermint give me a break…when did you star believing this conniving “monster” who would do “anything to win” that’s why she “lied about sniper fire”. I don’t care what Hillary says, stealing votes is undemocratic and wrong, so take a hike…
peppermint, It isn’t about Hillary now. It is about the Democratic process which is being short circuited by the DNC and others. Hillary won the popular vote, and her supporters want her name put in to nomination. Neither she nor Obama have enough pledged delegates to win, so the “RULZ” say we vote at the convention and the SDs decide.
Why do you hate Democracy?
Didn’t mean to freak anybody out with the “O” impression.
I was just playing.
As far as Lanny Davis is concerned, I didn’t listen to him because I kinda knew what he would say and if he had said something surprising I knew you guys would let us all know.
The bad feeling I’ve had about the “Chosen One” has only grown stronger as the days and months have gone by.
Frankly, I wasn’t impressed with his convention speech in ’04.
And the fact that he’s been pretty much repeating it ever since just ticks me off more.
The only thing that has changed is that now that I’ve researched him, listened to him, and witnessed him in action, my feelings are validated by evidence.
Nothing anybody says will change my mind as long as he remains the same.
So bottom line is, nothing I’ve read that Lanny Davis said makes any difference to me at all.
peppermint— I believe Hillary has and will ALWAYS work for the country FIRST but this is politics, she HAS to play the game too.
Coming out for the messiah is doing what she HAS to do. But if you wanna get into liars and phonies.
Then Pat – I’m your gal!
HI guys,
I was reading all your comments.. I listened to lanny as well tonight. I will give Lanny some room… he is in a very tough spot.. but I found telling he kept saying he respects our position, also, the fact he came and interviewed gives this so much exposure and acknowledgement that this is a problem for the DNC..
also I noticed over 200 people logged on when he was on, they dwindled to about 90 when he left. I do think hillary’s and the fraud’s people were listening.. who knows hillary may have been listening as well.
But Lanny can now say.. “well, I tried” I really don’t blame him.. Hillary might have to do the same thing.. I don’t blame her either.. the crookedness of this whole matter has so gotten beyond hillary at this point..
that;s why people don’t seem to understand, yes it is about hillary, but the whole issue of rigging a democracy is WAYYYY bigger now.
I do believe he is a closet PUMA, and they may be laying the grdwork for 2012…I’ll just not listen to his unity speech or hillary;s for that matter.. I’ll just say “hmm,, they have to do what they have to do.. ME? I VOTING NO-OBAMA”
Carol: Sounds like you are living in a “forest” down there.
Pat,
Waving my arms over my head and shouting, “Amen to that Sister Johnson!”
I think she pretty much did when she said she urged those who voted for her and were now considering not voting or going to McCain to not do so, she did what she HAD to do. And can now say well she tried.
Well said, Valhalla.
While I would LOVE for a big name Democrat to come out as a PUMA I’m pretty sure it won’t happen, for all of the reasons discussed in this thread.
That doesn’t mean I won’t be a PUMA however, and they will have to deal with me. Frankly, although I will probably not be voting Dem for Pres this year, I am thinking about getting MORE involved in the party, not less. Why? So I can try and turn it, in my little way, in the direction it needs to go.
I dunno, it’s probably emptying the ocean one teaspoon at a time, and futile, but Quixotic gestures fit my personality.
Peppermint, The majority voted for Clinton. Its only the SDs who are keeping the will of the people from being nominated.
And the RULZ say we need a vote at the convention.
ssmith: I hear what you and others are saying but that position defeats all arguments. How do you believe these people at all in the end when they constantly switch positions and we are told to just accept it with winks and nods because after all they cannot do otherwise. Bullsh*t. Who are they representing, you, me? I am tired of the second guessing. This one says this, that one says that. All for “political” reasons. Let us keep in mind that it is us, we the people, not them that this is all about.
We go into Denver with more questions and concerns knowing that the wool has been pulled down over our eyes and these are the ones who can adjust it. So please, do not ask me to try to understand Lanny’s point of view or any of those other spinners who have gotten onboard. I want straight talk. Not talk in the speaker’s best interest.
peppermint is not going down very sweetly.
OK peppermint, you are over the line. I am asking you to leave. Don’t come here and insult us.
Peppermint,
Why do you think anybody here wants your respect?
peppermint—-OMG you’re bring up hatred?!?!
Lemme ask you something, how is it that after accusing both Clintons of being the biggest racists on the planet and even accusing Hillary of plotting the messiah’s death, all you Obama people can turn right around and want to force them to campaign for your lord? If I felt THAT way about someone I sure as hell wouldn’t want them anywhere near my candidate!
You all forced Obama to cut ties with everyone else who you claim has attacked or mistreated the messiah, why the exception to Hill and Bill? Did you all suddenly have a change of heart? Were you just lying and never believed that stuff about them? Or is it because now you can USE them, that’s all that matters. Where is the consistancy?
peppermint: Get out of my face. At least I have the courage to put my name out there and not hide behind some stupid moniker like “peppermint”. I am ” thriving” right now and I mention this only because you seem to be too lame to recognize the difference between that and the freedom of expression.
Why would peppermint hang out with so many disrespected individuals at their own home? One might ask.
I personally love Rush, Rush is my friend, and peppermint you are not Rush!
Sm: You are brilliant.
sm77, on July 27th, 2008 at 11:31 pm Said:
Taggles – Lanny proved to be a real big disappointment for me. I commented earlier that how dare he even say that Hillary’s name on the ballot is “dis-unity?” IT’S DEMOCRACY – and I could give a rat’s behind on Ted Kennedy ’s convention fight bringing on the Reagan years.
Had Ted won the nomination, Ted would’ve been president.
We can totally use this. My next letter to the super d’s will be “don’t make the same mistake”. They must select the strongest candidate, ha! What will all the Reagon Dems think of that? Plus wouldn’t it be great to use Ted Kennedy against Obambi?
Brilliant.
Who says we don’t get any respect? Honestly. Lanny just dished out tons of respect. We can argue and still RESPECT other positions.
Just because Peppermint has respect issues doesn’t mean we have them. Yeesh.
peppermint does sound a little better than shithead.
peppermint— wouldn’t your time be better served looking under every rock you can find for new voters you can con into going to the polls IF your messiah even gets that far.
Something tells me that peppermint is one of our lurkers who comes here to bone up on comedy since he/she/it lacks so much in that arena.
Who’s on duty? Some of my posts have “awaiting moderation” on them. Must be a couple of words that are triggering it.
Pat, I think you are right. They always come in late in the thread, when the mods are not deleting as quickly…
Anyway, to change the subject. I LOVE you sense of humor. I’m always reading late at night after everyone is gone, and you get me laughing so hard I wake up my husband…
1. I think Howard Dean was sent or asked to be sent on a voter
registration tour because he does not have much say even as a Chairman any more. He gave up much too much power to the committees and now he can’t go back to leading the party in the right direction. “All the calls to the DNC are directed to the Obama Campaign”.
2. If Senator Clinton, as talented, knowledgeable and qualified to be POTUS as she is, is not placed on nomination or is not elected nominee this time due to machinations of the party elite, she will not be allowed to run for nomination in the Democratic Party in 2012. There will be a million “excuses” and more machinations to keep her out. If she runs for POTUS in 2012, she will have to run as Independent.
I still think all Americans will benefit greatly from having a
viable, organized, centrist, progressive, inclusive, Independent Party to choose, rather than the current two
main parties. I wish I didn’t have to choose only between the Republican Party and the Party that is being held hostage by
fear, corruption, and political correctness. I will vote in November. I know it will not be for BO.
Let’s see what happens in Denver.
Meanwhile, let’s help our Senator Clinton with retiring the Primary debt, and let’s contribute to the Denver Group.
I own my vote.
PUMA!
trist: You just have to take a ticket. peppermint is wound up with individual responses to us.
trist has been “outed”!
Awwww, Pat. My juices are just starting to flow.
Sorry that didn’t come out very well! I meant I haven’t chomped on any trolls lately!
trist: It goes down well with my Jello pie.
Well that was rich.
Did “it” get banned? I see their posts are gone.
Goodnight everyone. Don’t choke on any more peppermint tonight.
They hate us for our Democratic values.
trist: I just noticed that myself. Thought maybe I had imagined the whole unfortunate interaction.
GN mawm!
Pat: Are you okay?
SophieL—-well that’s one way to keep the peace!
I have to laugh because I just tip toed over to TM’s blog. Remember the days when her postings elicited up to 400 comments? I rarely posted there since there was so many. But I see the highest she had this weekend totaled around 200. The highlight today was her gushing over how great Backtrack did on Meet the Press. I will have to accept her at her word since I was bored after 5 minutes and shut it off.
What goes around, comes around for TM.
SophieL: Why, I’m fine.
peppermint: No one is making the argument you are on about. Take your strawman and go elsewhere.
Pat: I’m not arguing that we have any responsibility for their futures, or should.
Just that their best strategy to win the party back from the dark side is not necessarily the same as our best strategy. Wars are fought on multiple fronts, and Lanny has a long record of fighting the good fight. That counts for a whole lot, with me.
(Actually, I’d love to know if Lanny has maxed out contributions to Obama — I wish I’d thought of that when Murphy was soliciting questions).
Pat: the peppermint thing
I often go over to the messiah’s site to get a laugh.
This is a copy of a post I did over there a couple of nights ago:
I went over to the messiah’s site and posted the following message:
By I WANT AN ELECTED NOT SELECTED NOMINEE 35 minutes ago
For anyone who actually gives a damn about fairness in the nominating process, please sign this petition to demand that Howard Dean allow Hillary’s name to be placed into nomination, so that her delegates have a chance to cast a meaningful vote for her.
Link
Without such a process the “nominee” that emerges will not be accepted by all as legitimate. There can be NO “unity” without a fair election!
I understand that there is a real chance the presumptive nominee will not secure the nomination if this happens, but that is a risk he MUST be willing to take if he ever hopes to convince enough of Hillary’s supporters he actually cares about them, and expects their support.
It also means that if Hillary should come away with the nomination Obama supporters should respect the process and offer THEIR full support of the nominee, as they expect from us.
Unless you are too afraid to play fair, you WILL help us secure a TRUE open convention!
Thank You!
Among the usual attack responses someone posted this little gem, which I responded to:
what i don’t understand is why they’d come here seeking to get people to sign a petition that supports a position no one here believes is even plausible. oh well. takes all sorts.
My response:
WOW! You mean no one here believes in democracy?!?!? Because THAT is what we’re seeking.
Sorry, I guess I should have known better.
I was cracking up at that one! ^_^
Sorry Valhalla. My position is not meant to be personal. But during the campaign few spoke out that could have about the misogyny, the ra*e baiting, the smearing of a Dem candidate. It could have been stopped cold but it was not. The people who command the attention shut down out of fear of reprisals from the DNC and the Obama campaign. They put their own interests above that of a fellow Dem who deserved better.
I am tired of the defense offered that they “need” to do or say something now, but just wait, there is something else at stake here. You tell me when honor and integrity must be obliterated and silence and indifference becomes the norm.
We elect these people to lead, not dance around the issues. Calling out the bad guys has always been the American way. Should we just wait until Fitzpatrick starts calling for a grand jury?
Trist, I just read your earlier comment about where the charges of r*cism are coming from.
I lived in LA during the Simpson trial and I kept hearing on tv how there would be riots if he was convicted, but I never talked to a single black person who gave that much of a damn.
Same thing here.
YUP!
Somebody has to stand up to bullies!
To give us an idea of how really insane the Obamabots are I just read a post on Crooks and Liars which is talking about possible vp choices. John Amato suggests that Obama just goes ahead and picks Hillary since he will need her to win certain states.
The loonies over there are suggesting that should this happen she will have him killed. The insanity just keeps rolling along. This is a former First Lady and two time Senator from NY they are talking about over there. Sickening.
josgirl—there are just sooooo many things to be angry about what happened this election.
They will be analyzing this election year for decades if not longer!
Well said to Lanny! I heard him and could not believe my ears! I hope he spoke like that because….. well you know!
Yeah, Trist, but what I meant was the average black voter is not invested enough in Obama’s candidacy to riot if he loses.
But they’ve BEEN saying things like this. Not just the culties by pundits on tv make terrible jokes about Obama needing a food tester if she were his vp!
Hillary has never been treated fairly at ANY point during this election
josgirl— Yeah, I know, I just meant that there is also anger at how “we” are all potrayed as buying into that “the clinton’s are racsts” garbage. That “we” agree with whatever the talking heads who supposedly speak for the black community on tv say.
First of all I appreciate that Lanny was respectful.
The Democratic Party is in damage control mode. They’ve dug themselves in too deep to capitulate so all they have is damage control. That’s what Lanny was trying to do. That’s all.
I’m glad I no longer feel the necessity to defend the Democrats…it’s very liberating to be an Independent.
Mountain Sage
It’s been time to take back our country for a very long time.
josgirl: And what a slight on the black community with that statement. It suggests that because they are black they have nothing better to do than “riot” in the streets. Tell that to the working man or woman who are just trying to get by, hold down a job, get the kids through the day, worry about the price of groceries, wonder about the cost of healthcare. It angers me that they are unable to discern that blacks are no different than any other community and that the furthest thing from their minds is rioting in the streets.
“We” were definitely used in the worst possible way this year. That is unforgivable!
They definitely underestimated “us”.
Pat — I did not take it as personal. I don’t even disagree that much with anything you said.
I just feel somewhat that Lanny is (tonight, anyway) becoming a focus for a lot of absolutely righteous anger that should be directed at those who are the real cowards and enemies. I don’t think Lanny is either of those.
It shouldn’t be this way, but just by engaging us at all he gave us legitimacy that no one else will.
I agree with everything else you said. In fact, even if Obama had been the candidate that his slavish acolytes believe him to be, I still would not vote for him or support the DNC in any way because of the deafening silence on misogyny alone.
I just think that Lanny’s still on the side of light. If McCain wins in November, I’d bet anything Lanny will be the first to sign up for Clinton 2012. And if he’s not on the side of democracy, I think that he’s like number 103,548 on the list of the dark side, compared to Dean, Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Kerry, The Dauphin etc etc. There are so, so many before him on the dark list and I want to see them all go down first.
I just love how now you hear from the culties, how could youeven THINK of supporting McCain. When Obama and Hillary are so close on the issues.
Ummmm, funny that it’s ALL about the issues NOW! But as I recall when Hillary was talking about them until she was blue in the face, the ONLY thing they were interested in was all that meaningless babble from the messiah!
For me, it’s the issues AND the trust factor. Certainly it would be silly to vote for someone you think will be WORSE than Bush right?
I mean he just threw the country into the toilet, the Obama camp is bound and determined to see that it’s properly flushed!
Why hasn’t he spoken out on the HHS crap? Hillary was all over it? While he’s prancing around Europe she’s trying to stop global warming. I don’t think we’re the only people who see that any more. This is big.
I choose democracy.
P.U.M.A.
I just say no deal. I will not have 8 years of an Obama administration. I choose to say no deal.
Patty—shouldn’t that be “10 years”?
Haha, Trist
I think it was 8-10 or was it 10-12. I can’t remember what they told me.
Why do culties come by and say things like this???
I’ve long since given up trying to “reason” with them. It’s a waste of time.
Now, I’m like that south park eps. of the dog whisperer.
“Don’t argue with it. Don’t reason with it. Dominate it!”
Or in this case defeat it!
Yes. YES! That is great.
Anyone else in SF?
Not me, I’m in OK.
Nope, Ne vah dah, dahhling
perries: Yeah, I was just sayin’. It’s a damn good idea. I can’t wait to hear their response. I don’t think they can still use “racist”. They can’t call me “faggot” because I’m a lesbian. Sweet baby jesus, what will they say?
Does one think between 10yr admin. and 58state strategies the messiah weren’t nun too good in dat der mafus?
Perfect!
I mean geez! How can HE be looking down on all those poor hillbilly rednecks, and small town simpletons??? I mean that must REALLY take some kind of special arrogance!
When your SO automatically assumes you are lying or that you have an ulterior purpose for anything and everything you say and do, it doesn’t bode well for the future of the relationship.
I’ve said for months that Obama reminds me of a clueless guy who is down at the bar telling his buddies that his recently departed wife or girlfriend will “come crawling back” when she realizes how good she had it.
Meanwhile, she’s enjoying the single life.
Where does josgirl live?
She said Ne Vah Dah…Daaaaling
Puma-SF,
Yep, I’m in Vegas, baby.
Spent a lot of quality time in the Bay area back in the day, though.
I grew up in SJ
Why were you asking anyway SF? Is there some type of PUMA gathering?
What decade was “back in the day”?
San Jose?
Yep.
Late ’70’s – early ’90’s.
I am a child of the 80’s well technically 70-80’s but I mostly remember the 80’s BEST music there is!
Well, it’s almost 1am here. Guess I’ll call it a night.
Fun talking with you all!
Bye!
‘Nite, Trist
Okay, so I’m sure I seem distracted but it’s because I’m wathing the finale to Design Star.
I guess I grew up in the 50’s abd 60’s but Barky threw us under the bus a long time ago.
I think I need a little shut-eye. See you guys tomorrow.
One foot in front of the other.
‘Nite, Puma-SF
nite
Yay, Riverdaughter! Excellent response to what Lanny said. I listened in and was very disappointed in him. After the way he was treated at the RBC meeting, he probably feels that he has to toe the line or forever be on the outside so he chose political expedience over doing the right thing.
great response RD.
I think Lanny’s response about not putting hillary’s name into nomination is because like all the DNC wimpy leadership, they’re afraid of a show of disunity. “show” being the key word – even what’s underlying the worry is real disunityl. The Dems want to win.
Unfortunately, for Lanny, that’s far from certain to happen unless Hillary were the nominee. They should’ve thought about that in the first place before they rigged it for BO.
WTF? Obama has a sore left hip?
McCain’s going raise taxes to help SS.
McCain’s here tomorrow.
Howard Dean is a putz:
We will never again make the mistake of not going to the South and proudly delivering our message,” he said. “The Democratic Party’s message will no longer be delivered by Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly.”
“Lanny often sounds like a door-to-door Amway salesman”
that’s according to the National Review. (wikipedia then Nat Rev link)
http://contrariancommentary.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/anti-obama-movement-leader-andy-martin-says-disaffected-democrats-are-surging-against-obama-in-the-media-and-online/
Oh jeez…we had peppermint and now we had Patty so guess it’s a multinic troll who is Peppermint Patty. 🙂
damn I take one weekend off to celebrate my birthday and look what I miss will have to listen to the rebroadcast of blogtalk tonight
well gotta got to work see ya all later-fuzzybeargville
Morning Fuzzy, Conflucians.
405 and counting….too many. New thread please.
I wrote an account of the show for those who missed it
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/lanny-davis-on-no-we-wont/
I hope you had a happy birthday fuzzy!
Amen sista. Love riverdaughter!!!
Oh yeah and Patty Pressner, please take that “unity” bullshit back to where ever you found it. Love don’t live here anymore. HA!
Lauraks, on July 28th, 2008 at 12:02 am Said:
Lauraks: Yours is the post that should be sent to SDs, DNC leaders (to use the term ‘leader’ loosely), and other political websites. Your husband is part of that ‘silent majority’ represented by PUMA and sites such as The Confluence. I think you expressed the sense of betrayal many of us feel.
Hello to RD, and the good souls here. I usually only have time to lurk these days, but I just HAD to comment on this especially good post. I wanted you to know that when I attended the very first “private” event Senator Clinton held to “introduce” Senator Obama to her top supporters, Lanny Davis was there. The majority of people in that room listened to Senator Obama, and got quieter and quieter, as he basically bombed. But a smaller group just could not wait to begin kissing up to Senator Obama. Senator Obama took some questions from the group, and Lanny Davis was of course given the mike, and he made one of the most cringeworthy slavering set of kiss up remarks I have ever heard. Mr. Davis blows more or less with the political winds, from what I can tell, and it certainly seemed that way that night.
I assure you he was “detailed” by Senator Obama’s campaign to “reach out” to Clinton Democrats.
Just as I do when BO’s message appear in any type of media (switch the channel, skip the heralded story, or turn off the knob), didn’t listen to what Lanny had to say.
Sorry, but no matter how deep I try to bury them, I still have such a profound aversion against defectors and/or Messianic (type-A+) charlatans…
Oh Patty Pressner, all this wouldn’t have happened if Hillary had showed that there are somethings worth fighting for such as Democracy. It is worth fighting for. We respect Hillary enough to disagree with her.
test
“This may be the election where the mostly male, mostly older power brokers finally get the boot. We are a new generation of women and men who were brought up in a more egalitarian era. We’re not going to put up with the old way of picking nominees. Now, honor us and our candidate.”
DITTO
The PUMA movement is growing and time is getting short. The PUMA name is getting some recognition by the public and some of the media. Anti Obama articles are appearing in the letters to the editor’s sections of the newspaper, and they track some of the talking points you read here and they are also showing up on CNN and MSNBC. I was sorry to see Lanny Davis having to be in a postion where he had to support Obama, but the interview was public and it reflected the negative side of Obama. If Obama is the nominee and the DNC knoes it, will be won or lost in the following states: Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michaigan and Florida. Obama must win three of these four to win. He is losing by six in Ohio and now only carrying Florida by one (I doubt this, but that this is the current tracking poll). To further Obama’s troubles there are signs that McCain is moving up in Wisconsin, Minnesota and New Jersey. The super delegates must be convinced, that Obama is a loser and that Hillary is a winner. Her name needs to go into nomination. Pardon all my mistake and the length. Just had a lot to say today.
RD and others here:
Thank you for this extremely well-written piece and yes, thanks for all the responses also. I was working at the time the show was to come on, but I was on pins and needles wanting to know a summary at least of what Lanny Davis was saying, hoping, you know, that there would be some vestiges of hope held out for us, knowing that he was such a strong supporter of HRC. I didn’t get to get a summary before I had to stop working, so I decided to go to the link when I finished at midnight and I spent the time listening to the whole program. It was well worth it. Particularly the second part of the program.
I won’t repeat what some of ya’ll have said, except to very briefly say I was glad to see some crumbs tossed out about the reform that is so badly needed in the way the election process doesn’t work and the need to do away with the caucuses.. and frankly, I am glad he thinks the chances of HRC being Nobama’s VP are slim to none.. I want them to be none, because I don’t want her in that position.
It was the second half of the program with Ms. Lieberman that inspired me. I had been feeling somewhat depressed of late, I suppose that’s the reaction the DNC wants us to have.. not that it changed my mind on what I was going to do, but I was feeling less than positive about the chances of getting HRC nominated. After listening to Ms. Lieberman and to Sherry and Will and the wonderful callers.. I feel reinspired!!! I am going to redouble my efforts, however, small they might seem, 1 person convinced will help.
I must confess that I want to put 100% of my efforts into either reforming the democratic party and “voting out the bums” like Pelosi, Reid and others, (don’t even get me started on McCaskill) .. and taking back the power.
I am reenergized and recomitted today because I believe that there are more people who care about this process and who will work as hard as they can to bring back the idea of representatives who actually represent the will of WE THE PEOPLE!!! I believe that together we can begin a movement that can either reform the Democratic Party into the party with the ideas and beliefs that we all believe in, or if necessary, that we can start a new party that can stand for the people.
Perhaps it is time for a new party and new beginnings!!!
I have to also say that ya’ll here also inspire me and when I get too down, I come over here and read, because this is the kind of spirit that started the American Revolution!!!
Thank you so much for all you do, each and every day.
Boo Radly wrote:
“…when my own party turns into a replica of what I have been referring to as verministic criminal pols(R), it’s personal and I have greater resolve against it.”
This is an the perfect explanation of why my disgust with the Democratic party far exceeds my distaste for Republicans.
It’s bad enough when your enemies shaft you. It’s infuriating when your friends do it.
Lanny Davis laid the fault of the MI-FL debacle squarely at Howard Dean’s feet. I would have liked Lanny to have been allowed to continue on in that vein because he was doing so well establishing Howard Dean’s poor, biased, leadership skills, (which we are once again stuck with, as Obama has reappointed Dean as head of the DNC because he delivered the chaos that worked so well for him.) pointing out Hillary was willing to risk a revote (even though she had won the state) Lanny making the point Obama WAS NOT because he was acting in his own self-interest. Dean should have hammered Obama on the Democratic Principles of “Making every vote Count” especially in FL where this was Florida Voters second disenfranchisement. Instead of standing back letting the time line slip away..
FWIW… It was very brave of Lanny to go there portraying Dean as responsible for not forcing the candidates (Obama) to re-negotiate a deal for the disenfranchised voters in both states. (Hillary was willing to PAY out of her own pocket for a revote) Lanny laying out his case using Delaware as the example finding themselves in a similar situation, I believe the date was 1996 and ending with a full representation of delegates.
His point, if allowed to be followed in sequence and brought to conclusion, was that today, Hillary would be the Dem Nominee.
Lanny Davis made a good case for PUMA focus. He handed the PUMAS a plum to continue hammering Howard Dean as an undesirable head of the Democratic National Committee because Dean does not represent Democratic Voters …Just preferential treatment of candidates chosen by the DNC
(I’ve listened to the show 3x and it’s Lanny’s words, subtle as they may be, pointing the finger of guilt at Howard Dean laying the blame squarely on Dean for not treating the candidates fairly. That, I believe was his main purpose of appearing on the show.) imo- of course.
Did ANYBODY really think that Mr. Davis would say anything we would really want to hear? I didn’t bother listening to him, because I have heard enough from him on news shows recently. It must not be easy being him.
It’s gotten crazy. Maybe it’s me, but I do NOT understand how people so deeply entrenched in the Clinton campaign, can switch so readily. I mean, if you believe in someone, you should continue to believe. Especially when the other candidate is so horrifying!I can’t get over the public “spin” these people have to use in order to justify their “new think”. It’s disgusting to me.
The way the primaries were held, the RBC, the sexist rhetoric, all of it-so illegal, so immoral- that the candidates are almost an after-thought. It’s the PARTY that makes me ill-and the people who still stand by it.
What kind of world do we live in, where people go against their own conscience, in order to survive politically? It’s scary. Where are the people who are unafraid to stand by their convictions? Oh I forgot, they are PUMA’s!
Thanks, riverdaughter. Your words describe just how I felt when I listened yesterday.
Amen sister.
Yes, I agree with you, riverdaughter and to an extent so did , Lanny. His argument was..He was going to support Obama as the presumptive nominee in lieu of another 8yrs of a Republican presidency..
Some of the quotes attributed to Davis, are misquoted. He never said “dis-united”. He did say for Hillary to be on the ballot would be “counter-productive and divisive” repeating the Party line. I could care-less what he says about Hillary on the ballot, now. I do care if she is, he will leave Obama and support her once again.
Rather than alienate potential Hillary supporters, we have to be smarter and let them ramble while under watch of the “hooligans” in Obama’s Camp and keep an out-stretched hand handy when the time comes, if Hillary makes her case and is in fact a nominee in a delegate battle to the death with Obama at the Convention.
Everyday, it’s looking better and better for Hillary while Obama looks like the fool in charge pretending to be the president elect… GO HILLARY!
Beautifully said!!! It is really so simple, but they don’t seem to get it…….We LOVE Hillary! We don’t like or trust Obama! We are totally in control of our VOTE and our $$$$$$ and no amount of rude comments or name calling will alter our actions. Most of us grew up in a generation where we were not respected because of our gender and we overcame the prejudice, even became stronger for it.
Tellurian — I totally agree.
I hate to disagree with Heidi Li, both because I find her analysis of many aspects of this campaign extremely insightful and because she has first hand experience I do not, but I’m hard pressed to believe that Lanny was ‘detailed’ to try to ‘turn’ us.
The main reason for this is that all their ‘messaging’ to us has been ham-fisted beyond belief. His wasn’t. I might be able to believe he was sent to sound us out, except they could get an intern to read this site and the pumapac blog to do that.
Respect and disagreement are not mutually exclusive. I disagree with pretty much everything McCain stands for (and can’t vote for him), but there are some things about him I respect, and not just the POW/war hero stuff.
Lanny said little that Hillary hasn’t already said, and that was mostly on issues we agree with — caucuses suck, disproportionate distribution of delegates suck, and Dean in inept and incompetent. (I’m paraphrasing). FISA is the only exception I remember, and he didn’t praise the FISA vote as much as praise the fact that it showed Obama could stand up to the Dkos crowd.
Maybe I’m all wrong (wouldn’t be the first time), but there are people far, far more responsible for ruining the Democratic Party and I’d much rather use them as PUMA rallying points than Lanny.
BD & Val… 🙂
Many thanks to the mighty work done by riverdaughter, Murphy, Will, Sherri and the many unseen PUMAS out there. They are the force behind this netroots effort turned viral getting the word out and informing voters of why Obama must not be the next President.
We only have one bite at the apple in Denver. Time is ticking away. Hillary must be the nominee.. or we are truly lost.
We’ve got to turn it up a notch on the most corrupt candidate ever to run for the presidency. Obama MUST be exposed for what he is.. an opportunistic egomaniac thinking he has duped the electorate of our country into supporting him as our next president.
TG, Jon Voight has had the courage to speak out about Obama. I hope others will follow and soon.
VOIGHT: My concerns for America. Obama sowing seeds of Socialism..
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/28/voight/
ps….a Lady Bug just flew onto my laptop..good omen 🙂
I’m beginning to feel sorry for Howard Dean.
He’s been sent off on a silly bus trip round the South, to keep him away from the DNC in Chicago. Apparently there has been a total take-over by Obama. Now even Lanny feels free to blame him.
Is he under the bus too???
I do not think it was a good idea to have Mr Lanny Davis on
the radio interview.
A highly respected Democrat was obviously in a difficult
conversation, his demeanour sounded like the a masculine
version of the “Stepford wives”, his statements were very controlled
almost as if being monitored…….
Senator Obama was further highlighted (positively) by his
being there. Not what Pumas wish to hear……..
Senex, Ireland